Noel and Liam | Look Back in Anger | 3

When Noel tells a journalist he’s leaving Oasis, Liam feels like he’s losing control. If the band is going down, he wants to be the one to call time on it. But in reality neither brother has control over the future of Oasis. Because their bandmates have had enough of the feuding. They want out. Listen to British Scandal on the Wondery App or wherever you get podcasts. You can listen early and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting https://wondery.com/links/british-scandal/ now. Do you have a suggestion for a scandal you would like us to cover? Or perhaps you have a question you would like to ask our hosts? Email us at [email protected] See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Alice Levine?

  Audible subscribers can listen to all episodes of British Scandal ad-free right now. Join Audible today by downloading the Audible app.

• 0:07Matt Forde?

  Just to let you know, this episode contains very strong language and descriptions of drug-taking. Please be advised.

• 0:13Alice Levine?

  Consider me advised.

• 0:22Matt Forde?

  August 2009. Rock on Sen Festival, Paris. Liam weaves through the makeshift tents and porter cabins. His heart pounds in his chest as he hears the cheers from an expectant crowd. The sound of bass is thudding in the distance. In a few minutes, Oasis will take to the stage. He nods to one of the technicians as they raise their thumb. Looking forward to it, mate. He's about to step into his dressing room when his phone pings. He stares at the notification. It's a tweet. His hands shake with disbelief. He storms into the porter cabin, thrusts his phone in his bandmates' faces. You lot seen this? The room falls silent.

• 1:07Matt Forde?

  Uneasy glances exchanged. We only just saw it ourselves, mate. We weren't sure if it was a joke. Noel Gallagher tells journalists he's leaving the band after tonight's gig. Does it sound like a fucking joke? He scrolls through his Twitter feed. The replies are relentless. Noel was always the talented one. Should have quit in the 90s. His vision blurs with rage.

• 1:32Alice Levine?

  It's almost as bad, and I don't know if this is a reference you will get, Matt, when Carrie Bradshaw was broken up with by Berger on a Post-it note. You don't do this on a tweet.

• 1:41Matt Forde?

  I, um, think Mr Big would never have done that.

• 1:45Alice Levine?

  Very good.

• 1:48Matt Forde?

  A few moments later, Liam bangs on Noel's door, pushes inside. He's surprised to find his brother also looking at his phone. He's fucking journals, Liam, for Christ's sake. He ignores him. Deny it. There's nothing to fucking deny. He stares at Noel. Deny it, then. I've got a gig to play, and I'd rather listen to a cat yowl in the rain than talk to you in this state. Least I have the fucking balls to say it out loud. He storms out slamming the door. Heading back, he finds the dressing room is empty. He sees his reflection in a small black mirror. His face is puce with rage. Jumps when he hears the sound of his stage manager at the door.

• 2:33Matt Forde?

  Two minutes Liam. He's throwing me under the fucking bus. His stage manager looks at him blankly. Sorry? I haven't fucking changed. It's him that's turned into a fucking Ronan Keating or some soft fuck. I am Oasis.

• 2:49Alice Levine?

  Let's not drag Ronan into this. Everyone's just in their lane, okay?

• 2:53Matt Forde?

  Also, whoever's side you're on in this, I don't think you can say that Noel Gallagher has turned into Ronan Keating.

• 3:00Alice Levine?

  Again, I just want to be, as he doesn't have a right to reply, the defence for Ronan Keating. I mean, he was never looking to be an Oasis, or was he? Life is a rollercoaster though, isn't it?

• 3:10Matt Forde?

  Also, I think you do say it best when you say nothing at all.

• 3:13Alice Levine?

  I know you do.

• 3:15Matt Forde?

  Liam can't let it all slip away. He loves this band. He'd be lost without it. He picks up a guitar off the floor. Sees his stage manager's face filled with relief as Liam steps outside. But he's not going to the stage. He's walking to Noel's dressing room. He raises the guitar above his head like an axe. He won't let Noel tear apart everything he's built. If Oasis is going down, he's going to be the one who ends it.

• 4:22Speaker 02

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• 4:55Matt Forde?

  From Wondery, I'm Matt Ford.

• 4:57Alice Levine?

  And I'm Alice Levine.

• 4:58Matt Forde?

  And this is British Scandal.

• 5:13Matt Forde?

  Alice, we ended the last episode at the peak in The Gallagher's career, Nedworth 1996, when Oasis stood on stage at a record-breaking gig. An quarter of a million fans were there to see them.

• 5:24Alice Levine?

  We talked about that iconic footage. It's just the most incredible scene and you would expect them to be ecstatic. But Noel wasn't. So what do you think it was about that moment that made him question life in the band?

• 5:36Matt Forde?

  I think he'd climbed to the top of the mountain. They'd reached the zenith and there is something euphoric about that. But really, from there, the only way is down. And when things run and run beyond that moment of total success, really, everything that follows is a relative failure.

• 5:50Alice Levine?

  I feel like you're thinking of some other examples in particular.

• 5:53Matt Forde?

  Manchester United after Alex Ferguson, Forest after Brian Clough. They're all sad football ones for me. Obviously, for the purposes of British Scandal, the moments after the pinnacle are the dark, hard times that we really enjoy exploring.

• 6:08Alice Levine?

  Dare I say reveling.

• 6:09Matt Forde?

  And revels, another great 90s reference, which takes us right back to where we need to be. This is episode three, Look Back in Anger.

• 6:21Matt Forde?

  July 30th, 1997, 10 Downing Street, London.

• 6:28Matt Forde?

  Noel stares through the Rolls Royce windscreen, watches the massive Downing Street gates swing open. Outside the car, crowds are waiting, photographers poised for his arrival. He feels his stomach flutter. He isn't sure if it's excitement or the booze. He turns to the head of their record label, Alan McGee, in the backseat. Seven years ago, I was on the fucking dole. Now I'm meeting the Prime Minister. McGee laughs nervously. This is a fucking big deal, Noel. No troubles tonight, yeah? Noel shoots him a mischievous grin. Vive la revolution!

• 7:08Alice Levine?

  How many times have you been to Downing Street?

• 7:09Matt Forde?

  I've been about 10 times.

• 7:11Alice Levine?

  Are you joking?

• 7:11Matt Forde?

  No, mainly for parties, after by-elections and local elections and things. And there's just a load of you there, getting drunk. And you know the one thing actually that still slightly annoys me? Barely any food.

• 7:23Alice Levine?

  No, that's not okay.

• 7:24Matt Forde?

  Basic, just like those little honey mustard chipolatas they bring round.

• 7:28Alice Levine?

  Is Cherie walking round with a bin bag?

• 7:30Matt Forde?

  They had like a little act they would do, Tony and Cherie, where he would get up on this plinth, thank everyone for their work, and then she would come in late and heckle him.

• 7:37Alice Levine?

  Stop, like a double act!

• 7:38Matt Forde?

  Like a double act. You go, "Where is she, by the way?" She'd go, "Oh, shut up. Are you telling the same old stories?" You're like, "This is great."

• 7:44Alice Levine?

  But you've seen it 11 times!

• 7:45Matt Forde?

  I've seen it 11, you're like, "Oh, here we go, she'll be here in five, four, and here she is." Tony Blair's recent landslide election victory ended 18 years of Tory rule. Suddenly, the country feels hopeful, dynamic, and Oasis are part of it. For months, Blair's campaign team has been chasing them, desperate to tie New Labour to the country's most exciting band. Noel had resisted at first, but after Nebworth, he felt like the band needed something new. And maybe, becoming part of Blair's movement is just that something.

• 8:21Matt Forde?

  Noel exits the car into a scrum of reporters. What are you gonna say to Mr Blair tonight? In front of Number 10's iconic door, he raises his fist in a socialist salute. His mum Peggy's words flash through his mind.

• 8:35Alice Levine?

  Tidy your room.

• 8:37Matt Forde?

  It's an honour to say my son is meeting the Prime Minister.

• 8:41Alice Levine?

  We do have an email address, by the way, if you do want to complain about any of the accents, and that's [email protected].

• 8:48Matt Forde?

  Inside, they're shown to a reception room. Oil paintings in gilt frames cover the walls. Noel flashes McGee a marker pen, hidden in his pocket. If I see Wally Thatcher, she's getting a moustache. McGee is staring anxiously across the room. Following his gaze, Noel sees Blair cutting through the crowd. A Cheshire Cat grin fixed on his face. As Blair approaches them, a gaggle of photographers close in. Noel grips his outstretched hand. Election night was top. How did you keep going? Blair shoots him a conspiratorial smile. Probably not the same way you did. Noel laughs. Compared to most politicians, Blair feels different.

• 9:32Matt Forde?

  Younger, more relatable. He turns back to the Prime Minister, who's scanning the room distractedly. Lovely to see you, Noel. He watches as Blair walks off to Button Hole Simon Mayo. Noel turns, and almost bumps into Mick Hucknall from Simply Red. His trademark red dreadlocks are gone. Noel heard he got rid of them after Martin McCutcheon puked on him at Nebworth.

• 9:56Alice Levine?

  Stop. This is ludicrous now. This is an incredible cast of characters.

• 10:01Matt Forde?

  It just needs Mr Blobby, and it's the full nineties.

• 10:04Alice Levine?

  I know that sounds ridiculous, but in our kind of British scandal, you know, like MCU universe situation, those two people might have crossed paths because Liam Gallagher bought Noel Edmunds's mansion.

• 10:16Matt Forde?

  No way!

• 10:17Alice Levine?

  Yeah.

• 10:18Matt Forde?

  He must have bought it just so he could say, "It's not Noel's house, party. It's Liam's house, party."

• 10:21Alice Levine?

  Come on, that's worth millions on its own.

• 10:23Matt Forde?

  I'm surprised to see you here. Couldn't resist coming from the Noels here. Noel feels Hucknall leaning closer, and say quietly, "I mean, Damon Albarn told Blair to stick his invite. Called him a sellout." Noel snorts. "Pff, he can talk." But as he stands in the centre of the room, looking out over all those chattering faces, he can't help but admit to himself, maybe Damon is right. Maybe there is nothing serious here. Just a politician looking for a photo op. All those doubts Noel felt at Nebworth, doubts that Oasis had nowhere left to go, start to resurface. He marches to the bathroom, slamming the cubicle door. He feels nothing.

• 11:07Matt Forde?

  All the excitement, all the energy is gone. And Noel has no idea how to get it back.

• 11:21Matt Forde?

  June 1998, Supernova Heights, London. Noel sits up in bed. His head throbs as he blinks at the clock on the side table. It's almost two o'clock in the afternoon. A copper taste fills his mouth. He can see the outline of his wife's body in the bed next to him.

• 11:40Alice Levine?

  Wait, a wife?

• 11:41Matt Forde?

  Oh, he's all grown up now, yes, he married Meg Matthews.

• 11:43Alice Levine?

  Oh yeah, of course. Okay, so a little 90s masterclass for our younger listeners, or those that didn't follow the Primrose Hill set very closely. She was a PR, wasn't she, music PR? Kind of that rock chick aesthetic. Was she in the gang with like Patsy Kensit and sort of Sadie Frost and all that gang?

• 12:00Matt Forde?

  That's exactly where they all were. All those people, Kate Moss as well, it was a real scene. Noel stands up and throws on a t-shirt, wipes the sweat off his neck. He pulls the curtain shut to block out the glare of the sunshine. He pads down the staircase and takes in the passed out bodies strewn across the floor. The World Cup is taking hold of Britain. He'd been hoping to watch the England game with Liam, but as he scans the faces, he's nowhere to be found. Noel's lived in Supernova Heights for almost a year. It's become a mainstay in the tabloids. The papers are full of stories of his neighbours Jude Law and Sadie Frost visiting. Gwyneth Paltrow showing off her engagement ring from Brad Pitt. His friend Kate Moss, living in the house for two weeks.

• 12:44Alice Levine?

  Do you have a little drawer if you stay at Noel's? You've got your pyjamas, you've got like some tampons, like maybe the shower gel you like. I don't want to cast aspersions. But when you've got that many people coming and going, is that bathroom clean?

• 12:56Matt Forde?

  Absolutely not. And God knows what's peppered across the cistern and any surface.

• 13:01Alice Levine?

  Surely you're not doing it off the cistern when you're in your own home? Surely that's just because of the circumstances of drug taking? Not that everybody's downstairs having a good time, they're like, up to the cistern!

• 13:11Matt Forde?

  Maybe they'd have a porcelain...

• 13:14Alice Levine?

  Tray?

• 13:15Matt Forde?

  Porcelain tray built into their kitchen island.

• 13:18Alice Levine?

  Lovely, that's classy, that, that's nice.

• 13:20Matt Forde?

  What the papers don't report is that most of the time, he has no idea who most of his guests are. Noel decides to grab a beer, to take the edge off. He steps over the bodies, makes his way to the kitchen where his gaze falls on a man in a high-vis jacket. His movements are jerky and erratic as he bends over the kitchen counter. Because lines of cocaine are spread out on the breadboard.

• 13:42Alice Levine?

  No, that's why we have the porcelain insert, thank you.

• 13:45Matt Forde?

  It's a porous surface, it's gonna absorb half of it. Noel feels himself cracked. Who the fuck are you? His voice cuts through the silence. The man's head snaps up, his eyes dilated. He offers no response. Instead, a gaggle of Italian girls behind him break into laughter. He delivered a pizza two days ago!

• 14:08Matt Forde?

  Noel starts to feel a shortness of breath. He's recently started having panic attacks. He pushes the man out of the way and snorts one of the lines. But instead of having the desired effect, he feels his heart palpitate, his chest hurts. He steps into the living room but he can't control his breathing. It's the air, it's so thick, so stale. He rushes into the hallway and out onto the porch as bile rises in his throat. He pushes open the heavy front door and rests on the cool stone porch. He's thankful that no journalists are camping out here today. He focuses on the trees that line the street. He's found it helps. He wishes he could be in nature all the time.

• 14:51Matt Forde?

  And as his breathing steadies, he finds the idea lodge in his mind. He has friends in the countryside, he doesn't have to stay here. It's a club, and there is an exit. He lets the soft breeze wash over him as he makes a decision. He's going to sell this house, get clean. It's time he started looking after himself. Because if he doesn't, he risks losing everything he's worked so hard to build.

• 15:28Matt Forde?

  November 1998. A flight to New Zealand. Bonehead pauses the in-flight film. Lowers his headphones as Liam runs past in a cloud of cigarette smoke. An anxious stewardess following close behind. Sir, please put that out. Sir, you've bun-wand already.

• 15:48Alice Levine?

  Before the emails roll in, perhaps we're on a Qantas flight, perhaps they're Australian, perhaps they've been internationally schooled in South Africa. We don't know their backstory.

• 15:57Matt Forde?

  Could be a BA flight.

• 15:58Alice Levine?

  Certainly, they're British. Put that fag out.

• 16:02Matt Forde?

  It's one fucking cig. Why don't you get a life? They're heading to New Zealand to tour their new album, Be Here Now. Bonehead flinches as something explodes against the locker above him. He watches as Liam launches another scone across the cabin. Passengers shriek as they're showered in pastry. Across the aisle, Bonehead sees Noel lower his eye mask. Once, he might have tried to keep his brother in check. Now he either doesn't care or knows it's impossible. Since Noel decided to go sober, he's got no time for Liam, which has left Bonehead in charge. Here, Bonehead, cop this. A croissant bounces off his chair. Bonehead stands, forces a laugh. Right.

• 16:46Matt Forde?

  Pack it in, you madhead, I've already eaten. He feels Liam's eyes burning into him, his voice thick with booze. Chuck it back then. He knows it's a test. He's daring him to push back. Behind Liam, the stewardess looks like she's about to cry. Passengers exchange nervous glances. Are you a boarding bastard and all? Bonehead pictures the weeks of hotels and bus rides to come. He can't afford to get on Liam's bad side. Like the rest of the plane, he feels like a hostage. Bonehead scoops up the croissant, pulls back his arm, but freezes as a man in a crisp shirt and pilot cap thunders down the aisle.

• 17:28Alice Levine?

  Who is it?

• 17:29Matt Forde?

  The strippers arrived. He stops inches from Liam's face. This is my plane. If you don't want to be dragged off by the cops, you'd better sit down and behave. I don't care who you are. Liam slumps into his seat, calls the crew a bunch of knobheads. But a few minutes later, Bonehead sees him passed out, snoring. He pads down the aisle, stops at Noel's seat. What we gonna do about him? Noel doesn't even lift the eye mask. See if I care. Come on Noel, it's a tour, we have to get through it somehow, and if that pratt over there is behaving like this... This time Noel just makes a snoring noise. Bonehead heads back to his seat.

• 18:14Matt Forde?

  He watches clusters of white clouds roll past the plane's window. Fishes a photo from his wallet, he took it before he left. He strokes the face of his six-month-old son, Jude. He feels a pang of longing, he's got two children now, more money than he ever thought possible. But instead of putting them to bed, he's halfway across the world. He knows Oasis can't go on forever. Sooner or later, they'll have to call it a day.

• 18:43Matt Forde?

  If Liam is still acting like a dick, and Noel has given up caring, then the only question left is how much more of this can Bonehead take?

• 18:58Matt Forde?

  Two weeks later, August 25th, 1999, St John's Wood, London. Liam plucks a hanger from the rail, slips on a black coat with a faux fur collar. He teezers his long-feathered hair in the boutique's mirror. Behind him, a shop assistant wrestles with an armful of clothes.

• 19:20Speaker 03

  Um, that's a Helmut Lang Parker, new in today.

• 19:24Matt Forde?

  Yeah man, I'll have a bit of that. Liam is still reeling from Bonehead's sudden departure. They've been mates for fifteen years, his decision to leave Oasis feels like a betrayal.

• 19:37Alice Levine?

  I would argue his hands were tied. Also, as with every band, you know, we've looked at some of them in the show, there is this thing of you get older whilst you're in the band and you're sort of forced to stay in one pers- you know, you're a family man now or, you know, your circumstances have changed, but the band doesn't really stretch and morph to allow that, does it?

• 19:57Matt Forde?

  Yes, and what's different about Bonehead is Noel had always said that he was effectively the spirit of Oasis, and we know that it's a bit of a hell raiser. If this tearaway, who's the spirit of Oasis, can't handle being in Oasis anymore, that tells you everything. Liam's come shopping to try and take his mind off it. He tosses the Parker onto the pile. As the assistant takes them to the till, his phone rings. On the other end, Noel sounds irate.

• 20:25Speaker 04

  You're not gonna believe this. Now, Quigsy's fucking quit.

• 20:28Alice Levine?

  They are dropping like flies.

• 20:30Matt Forde?

  Quigsy, the bassist of Oasis since day one, and a calmer, gentler member of the band. He really liked Doctor Who and Star Trek.

• 20:40Alice Levine?

  Stop. Adore him.

• 20:43Matt Forde?

  Liam feels the grand tilt beneath him.

• 20:46Speaker 04

  What the fuck? Why? What did he say?

• 20:49Matt Forde?

  He hears Noel dragging a cigarette, slowly exhale.

• 20:53Speaker 04

  Some shite about not wanting to tour. You tour creation via fucking facts.

• 21:00Matt Forde?

  Liam stares through the window onto the busy high street, tries to focus his mind, steady his breathing, but he can't avoid the truth. Bonehead and Quigsy are gone, and that means the band they formed eight years ago, the group that conquered the world, is over. Three hours later, Liam leaps from a car and into a North London pub. McGee has called a press conference to address the future of the band. He's picked the Water Rats pub, where five years earlier, Oasis made their London debut. Inside the crowded dingy interior,

• 21:43Matt Forde?

  reporters jostle for space. Liam feels a knot in his stomach. He's still trying to process what's happening.

• 21:52Matt Forde?

  Wearing a crisp white jacket and sunglasses, he leans back in his chair. Beside him, Noel sits forward, elbows on a table covered in reporters' microphones. They haven't spoken much since Noel decided to go sober, but now here they are, side by side. And the truth is, Liam doesn't really know what Noel is going to say. Is he gonna join him on his mission to save the band? Or is Noel going to down tools as well?

• 22:20Alice Levine?

  Wait, they're going into a press conference and they haven't even spoken to each other before to work out what their future's gonna be.

• 22:25Matt Forde?

  Yeah, Liam doesn't know what Noel's gonna say. And it could be that he's leaving the band, and that's incredible because, one, they're brothers, and that's quite sad. Two, the two of them have built, with Liam's personality and voice and Noel's songs, the biggest band in the world at that point. But the sibling rivalry, the tensions within the band, drink, drugs and everything else, meant that they really weren't communicating outside of places like this.

• 22:50Matt Forde?

  The room suddenly falls silent. Liam leans into a mic.

• 22:57Matt Forde?

  Hello, Wembley. Well, that's when Bonehead and Quigsy were gonna leave. He watches Noel take a sideways glance. When you wish someone that long, you sort of see it coming in a way. Yeah, you said in 95 that Bonehead is Oasis. So what is Oasis now? Liam steals a look at his brother. It's a question he's been asking himself. But Noel brushes it aside. No one is bigger than a band, right? If they don't wanna do it, that's that. You can't force them to stay. Liam cuts in. We're not social workers, you know what I mean? With a grin. Noel lads. It's not like Paul McCartney leaving the Beatles. Liam feels himself relaxed. A reporter stands.

• 23:40Speaker 03

  One oh four point nine FM London.

• 23:42Matt Forde?

  What sort of question's that? A ripple of laughter goes around the room. Noel sniggers. The reporter asks what characteristics the new members will need. Noel, Man United fans, good haircut, nice shoes, so you're well out of the question. As Noel plays down speculation of a split, Liam takes in the packed room. He knows this will be front page news tomorrow.

• 24:06Alice Levine?

  Which is mad. Isn't that mad? That they're holding a press conference in a pub with the nation's press there and it's going to be front page because a member of the band who's not one of the two members that everybody across the board knows has left.

• 24:19Matt Forde?

  The thing is, they are such good value, the Gallagher brothers. I mean, they still are now in 2024 when we record this. There's no one that has the personality and the quotability that they have and they deliver like no one's business. For the first time in ages, Liam feels united with his brother. Oasis has weathered storms before. Nothing of this size, but Liam feels sure if he and Noel can work together, they can come back from this bigger and better. They don't really need anyone else. And as long as they, the Gallagher brothers, are in the band, they're nothing. Not Bonehead, not Quigsy, not Tony fucking Blair being a dickhead can stop them.

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• 25:57Speaker 06

  Hi, I'm Kenya Paris.

• 25:58Speaker 07

  And I'm Malcolm Gladwell. We're back for season two of our Audible original podcast, The Unusual Suspects.

• 26:04Speaker 06

  We're bringing you fresh, new conversations from guests like Anderson Paak, David Zedars, Ryan Howard, Rich Roll, Amy Sheldon, and many more.

• 26:10Speaker 07

  Sign up for a free trial to Audible to listen to season two in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts.

• 26:23Matt Forde?

  January 2000, Portland Hospital, Central London.

• 26:29Matt Forde?

  Noel punches the coffee machine, inserts a second-pound coin, but it too is swallowed into its bowels.

• 26:37Alice Levine?

  Funding machines in hospitals, I feel like, are the main source of income and revenue for the NHS. That's actually how they're funding most new wings, et cetera.

• 26:46Matt Forde?

  We've got to charge for parking and hike up the price on them twirls. He watches as Liam steps forward to try his luck. Rolls his eyes as he hears the coffee machine spring into life. Liam hands him the small polystyrene cup. He's in the maternity ward at the Portland Hospital, and his wife Meg is about to give birth to his first child. It's a girl. Meg's due date isn't for another two weeks, but the doctor has decided to induce labour, and Noel is struggling to control his nerves. He paces the corridors, takes a sip from his cup. He's been clean since he left London. These days, his only highs come from coffee and a bit of booze now and again.

• 27:29Matt Forde?

  He feels Liam's hand on his shoulder as the doctor approaches. It's time. Noel makes his way into the private room and finds Meg in good spirits. At first, he feels awkward, unsure where to stand, but he steps forward and takes Meg's hand. He's going to do all he can to support her.

• 27:50Matt Forde?

  An hour later, he holds his baby girl in his arms.

• 27:53Alice Levine?

  I've always said it, easy.

• 27:54Matt Forde?

  I'm glad you said that, because those guys have always wondered. But now we know the truth.

• 28:00Alice Levine?

  [email protected]

• 28:04Matt Forde?

  Meg calls to him, as he looks down at his daughter's perfect hands and feet. Her wrinkled little face. He can feel himself shaking. He doesn't try to hide a tear in his eye. How's little Anais? Noel had wanted to name her after a musician, but Meg insisted on Anais after her favourite writer, Anais Nin. He didn't put up much resistance. He immediately liked the name. A nurse enters, and asks if they would like a celebratory glass of champagne.

• 28:33Alice Levine?

  This definitely isn't an NHS hospital.

• 28:36Matt Forde?

  Noel doesn't really like champagne, but he does want to mark Anais's arrival. He looks at Meg. He can tell she knows exactly what he's thinking. She gives him a small smile, nods her head. He hands Anais back to her. Turns to Liam, who's hovering in the doorway. Pint! Half an hour later, he's sitting with Liam in the Fitz and Ferkin. He clinks his pint of Guinness as a small group of journalists appear at the bar. He doesn't think anything can ruin this day. He answers the obligatory questions. Over the moon, she's perfect. How is Meg, Noel? Just like she's been shopping, she looks fantastic. And when will Meg be discharged?

• 29:21Matt Forde?

  Liam pipes up. I hope today, because I got us tickets to the Tyson fight tomorrow night. He hears the journalists chuckle. The thing is, he knows Liam isn't joking. Hey, looking forward to Fatherhood, his Oasis is still picking up its tour in a month. He pauses. He feels Liam's eyes on him from across the table. I don't think it'll change you too much, I feel excited about the shows in Japan. He's not quite sure that's true.

• 29:49Alice Levine?

  No, neither am I.

• 29:50Matt Forde?

  He can already feel something has shifted within him. He can tell he won't want to leave Anais. He just hopes he'll feel differently in a month's time. He raises his pint for a second time. To Anais!

• 30:07Matt Forde?

  May 2000, Barcelona, Spain. From behind the drum kit, Liam raises the sticks above his head, counts the band in. One, two, three, four. The Beatles' Ticket to Ride echoes through the empty stadium. Oasis are in the middle of a European tour. Earlier in the day, their drummer hurt his wrist. While he's been seeing a doctor, Liam is taking his place for the sound check. Liam thrashes the drums until sweat spills off his forehead. With a new guitarist and bass player, they've never sounded tighter.

• 30:45Matt Forde?

  When they're done, he beckons the others over. There's a minibar backstage that'll put an Irish weight to Shane. Who's in? Two hours later, he watches Noel get to his feet. Otter the bog again. If I didn't know better, I'd say you were back on a gear. Noel laughs. Since when do we do that in private? Nah, I'm off back to the hotel. Liam frowns. Since Noel had his baby and moved to the countryside, they rarely socialise. But it's all the more reason to let loose on tour. Liam gestures to the crates of San Miguel, dozens of bottles of tequila. Sit down. I'm not finishing this lot on my own. But Noel is already walking to the door.

• 31:28Matt Forde?

  Liam jumps to his feet, takes a few steps after him. Oi, Mardias. I said, sit down. He'd meant it to sound playful, but his frustration is obvious. He sees Noel sigh. I've got better things to do than sit around here getting pissed. Liam laughs. Like what? If you want the truth, it's you I need a break from. Keep expecting you to grow up, but you're just a fucking stupid kid. Liam feels the air leave his body. For a second, he's speechless, then a pulsing anger takes hold. You're so fucking boring these days. You never do anything fucking fun. You ponce around playing a grown-up. Well, I'll tell you something, daddy.

• 32:11Matt Forde?

  He drops his voice to a whisper, leans in. I wouldn't be surprised if Anais ain't even yours.

• 32:19Alice Levine?

  Oh my god, even for him, that is so below the belt.

• 32:22Matt Forde?

  Yeah, and as you would imagine with an insult of that magnitude, this is something that Noel would refer to many times over the years as a real moment for them both. As soon as the words leave his lips, he wants to take them back. He doesn't even believe it, he just wanted to hurt Noel. Liam hears him growl. What the fuck did you just say? Thought he can move, Noel's fist crashes into his face. Liam lunges at him and they tumble to the ground. He sees rage burning in his eyes, feels the room spinning. The stadium's vaulted ceiling flashes above him.

• 33:02Matt Forde?

  Then more punches block it out. From the floor, he watches Noel's shoes walking away. He can taste blood in his mouth, hear himself panting for breath. He knows he's crossed the line, that he'll have to make amends. But Noel forgets, Oasis is Liam's band. And if Noel thinks he can take them for granted, can ignore the lead singer, he's got another thing coming.

• 33:30Alice Levine?

  Is that what was going on, or is that in Liam's head?

• 33:33Matt Forde?

  Oh, that's what was going on. Noel really is a dictator with an oasis. He writes all the songs, he decides how they're arranged. It's not like other bands, it's not like the Beatles where even though Paul and John could be quite dictatorial, George and Ringo wrote songs. Noel, up until this point, is the sole songwriter. He is the boss of how these songs are played live and how they sound on an album. And if you're in a band with dynamics, that would start to drive you mad, particularly if you've got the personality of Liam Gallagher and you're the brother, and you started the band in the first place.

• 34:05Alice Levine?

  If you founded it and you're getting treated basically like a session musician, it would drive even a smaller ego than this crazy.

• 34:14Matt Forde?

  Two years later, December 2002. The Bayrischahoff Hotel, Munich.

• 34:22Matt Forde?

  Liam staggers through the polished glass doors of the hotel. He stares up at the giant crystal chandelier. Not a bad pad. He catches the eye of a woman in a twin set of pearls. He sees her give him a disapproving look. He mock bows. Then stands and raises his two fingers into a V. Sticks his tongue in between. He watches in satisfaction as her eyes enlarge in horror.

• 34:48Alice Levine?

  What does that mean? You've got a funny colour.

• 34:51Matt Forde?

  This was a piece of sign language that wanton British men in the late 90s and early noughties would do, off and on shows like Boozed Up Brits Abroad.

• 35:00Alice Levine?

  Sorry, what does it mean? Shall we move on?

• 35:04Matt Forde?

  Liam promised his new girlfriend, Nicole Appleton, that he would be on best behaviour for this trip. But his new bandmates are so boring, he ended up getting high on the plane.

• 35:14Alice Levine?

  Babe, it's not my fault. Everyone was just so boring. I had to. Nicole Appleton, of course, kind of part of that 90s scene as well, in the girl band All Saints, who were at their height at this point, I imagine.

• 35:24Matt Forde?

  Very, very cool. But also, the flight was only to Munich.

• 35:29Matt Forde?

  A half-hour flight from City Airport, that is. Noel doesn't come on tour anymore, so Liam doesn't even have his brother to wind up. How is he meant to be the lead singer of a rock and roll band if he can't have any fun? Liam flicks his cigarette onto the marble floor as he follows his entourage to the hotel reception. Shouts at the front desk concierge. The room better have a view. He stares at the concierge. I said, sir, if you could please lower your voice. Liam feels blood race to his head. But before he can retaliate, his assistant takes him by the arm and ushers him toward the elevator. He decides to leave it for now. He'll grab a drink in his room,

• 36:13Matt Forde?

  then head down to the bar with the band.

• 36:18Matt Forde?

  An hour later, he's sitting in a plush leather seat in the downstairs bar.

• 36:23Matt Forde?

  He watches, bored, as guests come and go. He can't stand the stale soul band strumming in the corner. Opposite him, Oasis's drummer knows what he's thinking. Liam, don't. But he ignores him, starts walking over toward the band. Everyone's eyes suddenly on him.

• 36:46Matt Forde?

  Then he stops in his tracks. He hears the opening bars of Wonderwall. He looks around in confusion, then realises it's the soul band.

• 36:56Alice Levine?

  This is an amazing move.

• 36:58Matt Forde?

  At first he thinks they're taking the piss, but then he sees they're all smiling. They're Oasis fans. He does a little jig, heads over to the stage, shakes their hands.

• 37:10Alice Levine?

  It's actually kind of depressing how easy he is to kind of derail or get on another route. Like, he's ready to basically cause havoc and then someone's like, "You know this one! We're placating him, he knows this tune."

• 37:21Matt Forde?

  Play Wonderwall, it calms him down. A proper fucking band. But then, he jumps on stage, adjusts the microphone stand. He can tell the band he's unsure whether to continue, so he decides to force their hand. He leans into the microphone and lets rip. "Today's gonna be the day." He finishes to a mild smattering of polite applause. He enthusiastically shakes the singer's hand, who looks slightly stunned, and skips back to his table. He throws himself down next to the drummer. But he realises the whole table are distracted by a group of burly men at the bar.

• 38:00Alice Levine?

  We've all been there, am I right?

• 38:03Alice Levine?

  Wow, I've never felt more on my own.

• 38:06Matt Forde?

  The men keep glancing over at them. Liam feels the old thrill kick in. He casually takes a peanut from the bowl in front of him. Carefully places it in the centre of his left hand's palm. Points his finger toward the bar. Then slowly, pulls back his index finger. Feels the tension as it holds against his thumb. He patiently waits for his bandmates to notice. Finally, his drummer turns. Liam! And with a powerful flick, he launches the small brown peanut through the air. He watches in delight as it plops into one of the men's whisky tumblers. Liam smiles. Here's his drummer mutter. You've fucking done it now.

• 38:48Matt Forde?

  A few seconds later, Liam stares wide-eyed as the men at the bar slowly make their way toward him. He puffs out his chest. Feels the familiar rush of adrenaline as it courses through his body. His bandmates shuffle in their seats. He positions himself between his table and the men. He tries to make out their features, and for the first time, realises they're all in tailored suits. He feels his first flash of concern. He eyes up the hulking frame of the muscular blond man at the front of the pack. Sit down, Rambo, we're only having a laugh. But then the man responds in rapid-fire Italian. Che cazzo state facendo? Piccolo piazzio!

• 39:31Matt Forde?

  Liam looks at his bandmates in concern, as the blond man picks up a brass ashtray from the table. Liam raises his hands in peace, but quickly realises it's useless. Instead, he lets out a howl and rushes him. Only, it all seems to happen in slow motion. Because he should be moving forward, and instead, he's fixed to the spot. And then, the pain hits him. He's been struck in the kidneys. He crumples to the floor, but before he hits the carpet, he's caught with a hard uppercut. His head jolts backwards. Vaffanculo a chit e morto!

• 40:09Alice Levine?

  Dare I ask what that means?

• 40:10Matt Forde?

  Fuck your dead family members.

• 40:12Alice Levine?

  Sorry, what does it mean?

• 40:13Matt Forde?

  Liam's face hits the floor. He sees two of his entourage knocked unconscious. He starts to reach out, but a chair crashes over him. He hears shouts around him as more blows rain down. Liam never thought he'd be so pleased to spot a group of uniforms rush to the scene. He's yanked to his feet. He almost cries in relief, but then one of the officers punches the end of a baton into his stomach. He splutters. What the fuck, man? Liam tries to push him away, but the uniforms swarm him.

• 40:44Alice Levine?

  Si sint for half it! Obviously I know what it means, but just for everybody else?

• 40:48Matt Forde?

  You're under arrest. Blood fills his mouth as he's hoisted into the air and dropped onto a table.

• 40:56Matt Forde?

  Liam's open jaw catches on the edge of the table. He looks down in horror as he sees half of his teeth on the carpet.

• 41:02Alice Levine?

  I'm gonna be sick.

• 41:03Matt Forde?

  He tries to shout, but he just spits blood.

• 41:08Alice Levine?

  This is actually one of the fever dreams I have.

• 41:10Matt Forde?

  Oh, your teeth falling out?

• 41:11Alice Levine?

  Awful.

• 41:12Matt Forde?

  While you're being baton charged by German police?

• 41:14Alice Levine?

  Yeah, and while Liam's just sort of like rolling around on the floor.

• 41:17Matt Forde?

  He's handcuffed, dragged out of the bar, bundled into the back of a waiting van. The door slams shut as darkness envelops him. He curls into a ball, squeezes his eyes shut. All he ever wanted was to be in a rock and roll band. He thinks of Noel, at home, in the countryside, with his child. Blood oozes from the wound in his lip. Fuck Noel, he'll never be able to leave this band behind. The truck hits a bump and Liam rattles. His head cracks, and as his vision blurs, he smiles to himself and thinks, "Rock and roll will never die, Oasis are forever, Noel and Liam will live forever."

• 41:59Matt Forde?

  Then the darkness rushes in, and he passes out on the hard metallic floor.

• 42:08Alice Levine?

  It was the best day of his life. I really feel like this is, in his mind, a perfect day. He's like, "We had a rumble, I got knocked out, I'm in the back of a police van, top."

• 42:20Matt Forde?

  I wonder what tomorrow will bring.

• 42:24Speaker 04

  Journalist Daphne Caruana Galizia spent her life exposing powerful people. Then, in 2017, she was killed in a car bombing. I'm Stephen Gray and for the past nine years, I've been trying to find out who wanted her dead. That search took me to Malta through secret companies, organised crime, and eventually to one of the island's richest and most powerful men. Now, after years of waiting, his trial has finally happened. But when the verdict came in, the case took a turn that almost no one had expected. In a brand new update to the multi-award-winning podcast Who Killed Daphne?, I'm returning to Malta to find out how we got there and where the search for the truth goes next.

• 43:06Speaker 04

  Listen to the new episode of Who Killed Daphne? wherever you get your podcasts, and you can hear the full six-part investigation from the beginning, ad-free, with Audible. Join Audible today by downloading the Audible app and by subscribing on Apple Podcasts.

• 43:24Speaker 08

  There are books that change how you see the world, and there are books that change how you see yourself. In a new podcast series, A Great Book with Barack Obama, President Obama sits down with a series of surprising and sharp guests to explore six books that have shaped his life and perspective on the world. From Song of Solomon and the Fire Next Time, to All the Pretty Horses and Gilead, the president is joined by guests like Tom Hanks and Ta-Nehisi Coates to reflect on how these timeless stories shaped his thinking on everything from fatherhood to leadership, and discover together what they tell us about the world we live in and the world we want to create.

• 44:07Speaker 08

  Audible subscribers can listen to all episodes of A Great Book with Barack Obama ad-free right now, plus access each audiobook discussed in the series. Download the Audible app today.

• 44:30Matt Forde?

  Six years later, August 2009, Rock on Send Festival, Paris. Noel stares at the front page of the NME. Its cover is a picture of Liam. He’s staring down the lens as if he’s challenging him. Noel’s jaw tightens as he reads the quote on the front cover. “It takes more than blood to be my brother.” Noel throws the magazine on the table. He’s only a few minutes into this interview and he can already feel himself riled up. He turns his attention to the calm, mirror-like lake to his right. He’s sitting in the immaculate gardens of the Domaine de Saint-Clou. Oasis is here to headline the Rock on Send Festival.

• 45:12Matt Forde?

  He takes a deep breath, lets the fresh air fill his lungs, before he turns his attention back to the journalist. “Care to respond? I’m just here to talk about the music.” The journalist looks at Noel with a knowing smile. “So it’s not true that you haven’t spoken to Liam in months? That you only see him on stage these days? Oasis is still selling out stadiums, but he and Liam travel separately. Even stay in different hotels when things are particularly sour. Noel’s about to respond, but it seems the journalist has already moved on. “I’ve chatted to Liam last week.” He looks down at his notepad. “He said there were some... disagreements about the Support Act.” He starts to quote Liam.

• 45:57Matt Forde?

  “So, we had a fucking ding-dong in the airport and I think Noel started crying.”

• 46:03Matt Forde?

  Noel immediately feels his temper flare. He snaps back. “I’m not the one crying!” He watches as the gleeful grin flashes across the man’s face as he scribbles away. Noel knows he’s playing into the journalist’s hands. He doesn’t care anymore. “He’s rude, arrogant, intimidating and lazy. He’s the angriest man you’ll ever meet. He’s like a man with a fork in a world of soup.” Noel pauses. “In truth, life would be easier without Oasis.”

• 46:34Matt Forde?

  He sees the journalist lift his head. Well, is it true then? Are you thinking of calling it time? Noel hadn't intended to admit he'd been thinking of pulling the plug. He knows as things are, he can't return to the studio with Liam. But it isn't something he's explicitly discussed with the band. Right, I need to get to sound check. He pushes his chair back and ignores the journalist's plea for one more question. He's not going to discuss his affairs with some half-rate hack. He'll have plenty of time to think about his future. He just needs to get through this last gig.

• 47:12Matt Forde?

  The following afternoon. Noel stirs his peppermint tea, takes his phone out, fires off a text to his mum. In a few minutes, Oasis will play the final show of their tour. He can't wait to get back to the UK. He mindlessly scrolls through his messages when he gets a Twitter notification. He feels the anger rise as he scrolls through the comments. Fucking journals! He's about to call his publicist when he hears a loud bang on the door. He looks up in shock as Liam falls into his dressing room. He's clutching his phone in his hand, his face red with rage. It's fucking journals, Liam, for Christ's sake! Deny it!

• 47:57Matt Forde?

  There's nothing to fucking deny! He can see the tweet and his brother's shaking hand. Noel will be leaving the band after tonight's gig. Deny it! I've got a gig to play and I'd rather listen to a cat yawn in the rain than talk to you right now. At least I had the fucking balls to say it out loud! He watches as Liam storms out. Here's the final call to the stage. He refuses to let one of Liam's tantrums ruin this final show. He scoops up his picks and heads to the door when he hears shouting in the corridor. Liam reappears. This time he's holding a guitar over his head like an axe. I need that fucking guit-

• 48:40Matt Forde?

  But before he can finish, Liam crashes it down on the floor. It splinters in two. Strings coil around themselves. Noel can't help but laugh as he sees Liam struggle with the mass of broken wood and metal. But then he watches in horror as Liam raises the ruined guitar over his head and flings it towards him. He ducks as it misses his head by a centimetre. Fucking hell Liam! It's as if a switch has been flicked. Liam is now picking up a small table by its legs and hurling it toward him. He just manages to get out the way as it crashes into the wall and that's when he feels Liam's fist make contact with his lip.

• 49:22Matt Forde?

  Noel hears a sharp crunch, his vision blurs. He raises his hand as blood forms on his lip. He looks back at Liam, stunned. He stumbles out of the room and along the corridor, ignores the crowd chanting his name in the distance. All he can feel is throbbing in his head. His heart hammers in his chest. His breath comes in fast, shallow bursts as he searches for the exit. He makes his way through the complex and out into the evening air. He's thought about leaving before, but each time it gets swept under the carpet. This time, he's certain. He's done. He should have done it years ago. He should have done it at Nebworth, on his own terms.

• 50:06Matt Forde?

  He finds a quiet spot, takes out a tissue, dabs his mouth, mutters to himself. It takes more than blood to be my brother. This band has been his life for almost twenty years. He's somehow managed to work with Liam for two decades. Despite the fallouts, he never would have imagined that two brothers from a council estate in Manchester could have got here. So if this is where it all ends, he realises he's okay with that. He knows that the music will last, he's always known that. And he also knows that despite his and Liam's flaws, perhaps even because of them, there will never be another band quite like Oasis.

• 50:58Matt Forde?

  Noel and Liam Gallagher have not performed together since 2009. In 2011, Noel told a US publication that he'd "rather eat shit than be in a band with Liam again." After playing a memorial concert for victims of the Manchester terrorist attacks in 2016, Liam tweeted, "Noel's out of the fucking country, weren't we all, love? Get on a fucking plane and play your tunes for the kids, you sad fuck." It ain't about Oasis, it's about people helping other people, and he's once again shown his true fucking colours.

• 51:33Speaker 03

  You stepped out for your morning jog. Except it's not your usual morning jog. You started listening to an epic sci-fi book on Audible. Thirty chapters later, you've accidentally run a half marathon. You've lost track of how far you've run, somewhere just past the city limits. You can't stop, you have to find out what happens next. Then it's over. The universe seems bigger. You feel different. You feel like you have no idea where you are. Audible, stories that speak to you.

• 52:04Speaker 06

  Hi, I'm Kenya Paris.

• 52:05Speaker 07

  And I'm Malcolm Gladwell. We're back for season two of our Audible original podcast, The Unusual Suspects.

• 52:12Speaker 06

  We'll sit down with extraordinary guests from the worlds of art, film, literature, comedy, and wellness to hear from their unexpected stories of success.

• 52:19Speaker 07

  And who do we have this season? Well, we'll talk with Grammy-winning artist Anderson Paak, athlete Rich Roll, portrait artist Amy Sherald, Oscar-winning director Ron Howard, legendary writer David Sedaris, and many more. These conversations are more intimate than last season, wouldn't you say?

• 52:35Speaker 06

  I would. Listen to season one of The Unusual Suspects wherever you get your podcasts and sign up for a free trial Audible to listen to season two in the Audible app or by subscribing to Apple Podcasts.

• 52:52Matt Forde?

  Alice, before we go, I want to tell you and the listeners about the interview that will be wrapping up this series. We're going to be talking to BBC Radio One DJ, six music presenter, music journalist, occasional Top of the Pops host, many-time interviewer of Nolan Liam and Britpop genius, it is Steve Lamack.

• 53:08Alice Levine?

  I could listen to him read the phone book, although I hope he doesn't do that and talks to us about this.

• 53:16Matt Forde?

  From Wondery and Samistat Audio, this is the third episode in our series, Nolan Liam.

• 53:21Alice Levine?

  A quick note about our dialogue: in most cases, we can't know exactly what was said, but all our dramatizations are based on historical research.

• 53:27Matt Forde?

  If you'd like to know more about this story, you can read Some Might Say: The Definitive Story of Oasis by Richard Bows, The Last Party by John Harris, Creation Stories by Alan McGee, or watch the supersonic documentary directed by Matt Whitecross. British Scandal is hosted by me, Matt Ford.

• 53:44Alice Levine?

  And me, Alice Levine.

• 53:46Matt Forde?

  British Scandal is a production of Wondery and Samistat Audio. Written by Jack McKay. Additional writing by Matt Ford and Alice Levine. Our story editor is James Maniac. Sound design by Rich Evans. Music supervisor is Scott Velaskis for Frieze on Sync. For Samistat, our producer is Chica Ayers. Our senior producer is Joe Sykes. For Wondery, our series producer is Theodora Leludis and our managing producer is Rachel Sibley. Executive producers for Wondery are Estelle Doyle, Jessica Radburn and Marshall Louie.

• 54:27Speaker 09

  Dr Seuss's Cat in the Hat and Fish are back for a whole lot of wonderfully whimsical fun. What happens when you switch bodies with your best friend? Discover a caveman frozen in ice? Or make an alien so angry he threatens to destroy the planet? Find out in season two of the Cat in the Hat podcast. The Cat and Fish are travelling the world in the great catastrophic cacophony cruiser, meeting genies, clown professors, cave trolls and extraordinary characters along the way. With clever wordplay, imaginative rhymes, original songs and stories celebrating curiosity, empathy and creative problem solving, every adventure brings something new to discover.

• 55:09Speaker 09

  It's a world of wonderful words, big imaginations, and plenty of heart for the whole family. Listen to the Cat in the Hat podcast wherever you get your podcast. Audible subscribers can binge all 20 episodes early and ad-free right now.

• 55:27Speaker 10

  For decades, two legendary brands fought for the hearts of American bikers, Indian Motorcycle and Harley-Davidson. The battle looked a lot like Coke versus Pepsi or Ford versus Chevy, but tastes changed and Indian didn't adapt fast enough. The icon all but died. Then came the con men, the dreamers, a string of spectacular failures that kept Indian in the grave, until one company finally got it right. This is the story of an improbable revival and the reignition of an old rivalry. Hey, I'm David Brown, the host of the podcast Business Wars, and every season we bring you the true stories behind the companies that shape our world. Indian's new owners are going all in, but an existential crisis looms. Can Indian and Harley recruit enough younger riders to survive?

• 56:10Speaker 10

  Make sure to follow Business Wars wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can binge all episodes of Business Wars early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts.