When the News Feels Like Too Much, Try This | Sharon Salzberg

Buddhist advice on taking care of yourself so you can take care of the world, including what to do with your outrage, and why looking for the good on purpose isn't denial. The news is painful right now. And for most of us, the options we reach for — doom-scrolling, rage-posting, or unplugging entirely — don't actually help. Meditation teacher and bestselling author Sharon Salzberg joins Dan to take live questions from the 10% with Dan Harris community on how to find solid ground when the world feels like it's on fire. In this conversation, Sharon Salzberg and Dan Harris discuss: How to feel your anger without being consumed by it — and why that distinction matters What's usually hiding underneath the anger: grief, fear, and sadness Why action is the antidote to despair — and what actually counts as action How civil rights movement leaders sustained their effort in the face of uncertainty How to handle guilt about not doing enough Why "look for the helpers" is more than a platitude Whether meditation can possibly be relevant in a full-blown poly-crisis — Sharon's answer may surprise you Sharon Salzberg is one of the most influential meditation teachers in the Western world. She has been teaching for over four decades and is a co-founder of the Insight Meditation Society in Barre, Massachusetts. She is the author of many books, including Lovingkindness and Real Happiness. Find more of her guided meditations in the 10% with Dan Harris app http://app.danharris.com/. Get the 10% with Dan Harris app here https://app.danharris.com/membership Sign up for Dan's free newsletter here http://www.danharris.com/ Follow Dan on social: Instagram https://bit.ly/3tGigG5, TikTok https://bit.ly/3FOA84J Subscribe to our YouTube Channel https://bit.ly/3FybRzD This episode is sponsored by: Planet Visionaries: In partnership with The Rolex Perpetual Planet Initiative, listen to or watch Planet Visionaries wherever you get your podcasts. Reddit: Download the Reddit app today. Base44: Go to Base44.com/Happier http://base44.com/Happier and sign up through our link to get 30% off the Builder plan for your first year. To advertise on the show, contact [email protected] or visit https://advertising.libsyn.com/10HappierwithDanHarris

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:03Dan Harris?

  Hey, hey, it's the 10% Happier Podcast. I'm your host, Dan Harris. We are, as of this episode posting, four days away from the midterm elections here in the United States. And I don't know about you, but I'm a little bit anxious. And so today, we're going to answer a burning question that I know a lot of you have, because you tell me about it. How do you stay engaged with the news without letting it wreck you? Is that even possible? My guest today, the legendary meditation teacher Sharon Salzberg, says, yes, it is. And she has an enormous amount of practical information to share on this tip. She's going to talk about everything from feeling your anger without being consumed by it, how to investigate what is beneath that anger, why the civil rights movement

• 0:46Dan Harris?

  is a surprisingly useful model here, and how to handle the guilt that many of us feel, how to deal with this sense that maybe we're not doing enough. Before we get started with Sharon, I do want to point out that coming up next week, on Tuesday, Election Dan, and then on Wednesday, the day after Election Dan, I'll be doing free, live guided meditation sessions at 4:00 PM Eastern on both Tuesday and Wednesday. We'll do a sit together, and then I'll take your questions. And on Tuesday, I'll have a secret weapon with me, the great Buddhist teacher Vinnie Ferraro. If you go to danharris.com and sign up for my newsletter, we will send the Zoom link directly to you. Again, these are free. We usually do these just for subscribers on the app, on my app, 10% with Dan Harris. But given what's happening

• 1:30Dan Harris?

  right now, we thought we would open it up to everybody. So again, sign up over at danharris.com. We'll send you a Zoom link, Tuesday and Wednesday at 4:00 Eastern, Tuesday with Vinnie Ferraro, Wednesday with me solo. Okay, let's get to Sharon Salzberg. Before we dive in, I just want to say what you're about to hear is a conversation that Sharon and I recorded with an audience of 10% Happier subscribers, watching live on Zoom and popping in with their own questions. So you'll get to eavesdrop on the type of conversations we're having all the time, every week over on the app. Here we go, Sharon Salzberg. Hello, everybody. Welcome to the 10% Happier Podcast. I'm your host, Dan Harris. Let me

• 2:09Dan Harris?

  start by asking you a question, myself, which is, how often do you consume the news? And what does it do to your mind when you do it?

• 2:19Speaker 01

  It's so funny, because asking that question, the obvious implication is that the news is bad, you know? So I guess that I make some effort to actually consume good news, you know, with these services that provide that, just to kind of have a little bit of perspective. I don't watch television news at all. Sorry, former anchor person. And I read the news on the internet. I try to be really careful about the sources that I go to. I realize that I'm not, I'm not that compelled to find out other people's opinions

• 2:59Speaker 01

  about things. I would rather just read, to the best of my ability, what happens, you know, and form my own opinion, and try not to get caught in like perpetual outrage and other exhausting kinds of reactions. So I would say, every day, I look at something on the internet. I'm also working on a book, so that means I'm on Instagram an awful lot of the time, because I need a distraction also from the book. So I mostly get my news on Instagram these days.

• 3:30Dan Harris?

  Do you not find Instagram, or social media generally, to be, at least at times, enervating?

• 3:37Speaker 01

  Yes, of course. I mean, I, you know, try to be more discerning, you know, but not get just caught and magnetized. And let me look at everyone's opinion, and all those comments, and all those, you know, ways of just opining about things, you know, and just read a little bit about what happens. Mostly on Instagram, I follow like babies eating their first banana, and puppies, you know, cavorting in meadows and things like that. But I do follow some journalists and attorneys and people like that, not as many as I used to.

• 4:11Dan Harris?

  What do you do? Like, do you have a go-to tool for, let's say, the day after Donald Trump is re-elected president in November of 2024? After there's been something big, and for many of us, disturbing in the news, do you have a way of metabolizing it?

• 4:30Speaker 01

  Well, to some extent, I find myself in some position, or you could say, responsibility or responsiveness. So, for example, at the Insight Meditation Society, where people do intensive silent retreats, the day after a presidential election, we post a folded-up note on the bulletin board. And it says on the front, if you are interested in who won the US presidential election, lift this up. So in the year 2000, if you lifted it up, it said, we don't know yet. And all these people, you know, have been meditating for like six weeks or something at that point, and we're a little bit spaced out. And they'd

• 5:15Speaker 01

  come in to talk in a regularly scheduled interview, and they'd say, don't we usually know? The next day? So, yeah, we kind of do. And there was one person attending that retreat, who had been a Senate aide, and he was on his way to graduate school. So it was his interim period. And so he was sitting for three months. And he knew that it was like completely wacky. And he had to walk to downtown Barry, this was a long time ago, of course, no Wi-Fi. He had to walk to downtown Barry to get, go to the library and get on a computer, find out what was going on. So this past presidential election, people started crying. There were, you know, there was, there was a lot of great distress and pain.

• 5:59Speaker 01

  And I always find that, when I'm in a situation of trying to be present with others who are struggling, that it reminds me, it brings out the best in me. And so I, not that I have answers, you know, or conclusions, but there's, there's a way of, first, of course, not feeling so alone, but also reaching for the greatest clarity I can, and perspective that I can. And so that helps.

• 6:30Dan Harris?

  Yeah, that tracks for me. Just to pick up on some of the things you said, from my perspective, I, like you, I have trained my, I don't, I don't go on Instagram much. For some reason, I find Instagram particularly provocative for my psyche. But I do go on TikTok a lot. And I have trained that algorithm to pretty much only serve me comedy clips, animals, and emotional reunions of people who haven't seen each other in a long time. And I find that, in that way, TikTok is generally a relief. It's a great distraction from my own book writing process, or when I need a break throughout the day. When there is something painful in the news for me, I have many coping mechanisms, but one of them,

• 7:11Dan Harris?

  you touched on, which is one of my favorite expressions, which everybody listening to the show and our subscribers who are watching it live have heard me say a million times, but one of my favorite expressions is never worry alone. And so generally, my move, if there's something going on in the news that I'm just really freaked out about, is to call a friend, talk to my wife. And I find that extremely, extremely helpful.

• 7:33Speaker 01

  Actually, you're one of my favorite people to follow on Instagram. You've got a great presence on Instagram. Maybe you transferred over from TikTok, I don't know. But I meant that, you know, not to be saccharine. Twice, a couple of weeks ago, I was accused of being an optimist. And each time I said, once, in the Eightfold Path class, that was the second time, I was recording a podcast with Jerry Colonna. We were kind of co-hosting, and there was a guest who, I said something, and he said, I can tell you're a glass half-full kind of person. And I said, no one has ever said that to me before. I mean, being a Jew and a Buddhist and a New Yorker, it was like very far from the kind of commentary I usually

• 8:16Speaker 01

  get, you know? Since all we talk about is suffering, but, and freedom from suffering. But I do find that I need to have some balance. And I admire, so not to be saccharine about it, but I admire those people who make an effort to put out good news, because there is still love in the world. And one of my favorite images, something I'd read, where they said that after the atom bomb dropped in Hiroshima, even further devastation spread throughout the land when this rumor spread, that grass and trees and flowers would never grow again. It's like the laws of nature themselves had exploded. As devastating as

• 8:56Speaker 01

  everything was, no doubt, people felt a greater ability to go on when that rumor was dispelled. It's like there was something that was not broken. There was something that was intact and whole. And I think about that when I think about loving kindness meditation, like taking the time to tune into that energy. I think about that in terms of consciously directing my mind, not just toward the terrible things that are happening, but toward that which is good. You know, and one version of that, which a lot of people are familiar with, was Mr. Rogers, you know, who said when he was a child, I don't know how old, but, and he was really, really upset about something in the news, and his mother said,

• 9:38Speaker 01

  look for the helpers. And another reminder that I've had is when I was, I was doing some research on the quality of awe, because I was going to write something about it. And I'd always thought of awe as a beautiful quality we experience, like when we go to the sequoia forest, and we see the magnificent redwood trees or something. It turns out, one of the greatest sources of awe is moral beauty. It's seeing goodness in people. So sometimes I just remind myself, let's look for that consciously, so to at least include that in my, my field of awareness.

• 10:16Dan Harris?

  Yes. I mean, I a million percent agree. And one of the raps I often go on is that we need to be aware of the fact that two things, or actually, many things can be true at the same time. There can be- Horrible shit going down at 1600 Pennsylvania. And all over the place, people are teaching children and helping the elderly and planting flowers and we get distracted from the latter, from the good stuff, by the power of these algorithms, which profit off of our anger and outrage and fear. Let me ask you a question specifically about anger, and this comes from a subscriber named Amy. I'm just going to read you the question she submitted.

• 10:57Dan Harris?

  "My strategy since the election has been to avoid reading or watching much news. However, plenty leaks through, so I'm generally aware of how bad things are. And every once in a while, I do subject myself to actual engagement with the news. I get so angry that I'm seething. I need some strategies so that I can both be aware of what's going on, take right action when I can, and stay somewhat sane. Suggestions?" Two question marks.

• 11:22Speaker 01

  There you go. That is the essential question, isn't it? I think there are many aspects to that. I think we feel what we feel. I'm looking for my mug collection. As I often say, in the pandemic, in the height of the pandemic, when I was teaching incessantly online, apparently I was saying the same thing over and over again, because people started making me mugs and sending them. And so I have one right here that says, "Banging your head against the wall is never fun." And another one, which I can't find right now, says, "Something's just hurt." And it's not because we have a bad attitude, it's not because our thinking is wrong, not because we have to talk ourselves out of it, something's just hurt.

• 12:04Speaker 01

  It is painful to recognize so much of what's happening. And yet, we need to, I think, accept the anger, accept the outrage, not fight it, not be ashamed of it, not be afraid of it, and yet not get consumed by it, because getting consumed by it clearly is not a strategy for making a difference. We're so devastated or debilitated by being lost in that feeling. So of course, one of the great skills of mindfulness is being able to recognize what we're feeling and not going to one of two extremes. It could be either way. One is hating what we're feeling and pushing away, trying to push away what we're feeling and being embroiled in it that way.

• 12:47Speaker 01

  And the other is just getting overwhelmed by it. So I would start, I do start by trying to experience the anger and the pain of the anger. It's not bad or wrong or terrible. To recognize it in that middle way, and then either breathe consciously, because I need to sort of get my nervous system in some greater harmony, or ask myself the question, what can I do? And it may, of course, not be monumental or magnificent, but it is some way channeling that energy of the anger, because it's a highly energized state.

• 13:32Speaker 01

  So it's not so self-destructive or other-destructive and actually has a pathway. As long as we realize, you know, we're not going to solve everything instantly or anything, perhaps, but we can help maybe someone else not feel so alone, or give voice to something in some way so that we don't feel silenced in our distress. And there are obviously, you know, I would love to hear from people about what they do, you know, because I'm sure there are many, many avenues of action. But that's basically what I do, is accept the feeling, but maybe don't let it override me, because then it is very damaging. You know, we just stew and we feel overcome by that.

• 14:17Speaker 01

  And the actions that we take, usually if we're lost in anger, are missing a lot of information. It's like, if you think about the last time you were super angry at yourself, and just bring it up, like, bring it up right now. It's not a time when you're likely thinking, you know, I said that really stupid thing in the meeting, but I did five great things that same morning. It's like, those five great things, they're gone, right? And so we lose a lot of options, we lose a lot of creativity and possibility when we are lost in anger. And so that's the effort, to feel it, but not get lost in it, and then channel it in some way.

• 14:59Dan Harris?

  As I may have mentioned to you before, for many years, I was struggling with something called restless leg syndrome, which is a kind of embarrassing syndrome, but it can be really life destroying, because it stops you from sleeping. And one of the areas where I found tons of information, and also a feeling of mutual support of not being in it alone, was Reddit. Reddit has subreddits focused on so many aspects of life, and of course, they have a thriving one around restless leg syndrome. And it was just a game changer. You know, if you're listening to this show, that it's very easy to be told, oh, here are the things that are going to make you live longer and feel better, sleep, meditate, move your body. But on Reddit, you have a place where you can connect to other people who are also

• 15:43Dan Harris?

  interested in the same thing and can share information, and, as I said before, a kind of sense of mutual support. The answers come with honesty. People are speaking in an authentic way about their own experience. Nobody's pretending that there are one-size-fits-all solutions. Reddit offers peer perspective and practical ideas, and then you also get professional guidance when you need it. And Reddit really can fit into a healthy ecosystem of information. Find real-life inspiration, advice, and tips on Reddit from people who have been in your shoes. Download the Reddit app today. Here's something I've noticed about a lot of smart and effective people. They know exactly how a process should work, and they can describe it in great detail,

• 16:28Dan Harris?

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• 17:11Dan Harris?

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• 17:54Dan Harris?

  education, helping young people discover new possibilities while remaining rooted in the strength of their cultures and identities. Her work shows how expanding opportunities for girls can strengthen families, uplift communities, and shape a brighter future. Hosted by the climber and environmental advocate Alex Honnold, Planet Visionaries celebrates the leaders whose work is creating meaningful change that can ripple across generations. In partnership with the Rolex Perpetual Planet Initiative, this is Planet Visionaries. Watch or listen wherever you get your podcasts. On the subject of feeling the anger without getting overwhelmed by it, Laura, one of the subscribers, just typed into chat box, and I'm quoting here, "For me, grief and

• 18:39Dan Harris?

  fear are what almost always need to be felt behind my anger. Anger seems to be easier to feel than what's behind it." Is that tracked for you?

• 18:49Speaker 01

  It does. I mean, I think of feeling as strong as anger is usually a compound. That's part of our development of insight or wisdom. You know, if we're reacting to the anger, or we're lost in it, and like, planning revenge, you know, one vengeful fantasy after another, we're not going to learn much. And so, one of the first things we talk about in mindfulness is pivoting. Instead of like, I'm so angry about this, and this is what I'm going to do about it, it's almost like turning our attention around and asking, what is anger? What is it? What is this feeling? And, you know, we check it out in our bodies, what does it feel like?

• 19:31Speaker 01

  And also, we kind of watch the anger movie, and this is exactly what we see. Maybe within the anger, we find a lot of grief, we find a lot of fear, we find a lot of sadness. Maybe within the desire, we find a lot of loneliness. You know, all these feelings are compounds, and that's a real developing understanding. And then we also see, as we keep paying attention, that, you know, maybe it arose, it seemed so solid, so forever, so consuming, but when we really look, it's coming and going, it's ebbing and flowing, that there's space within it. It's a kind of porousness that happens. That's the place from which we can actually capture the energy and do something with

• 20:16Speaker 01

  it. If it just feels like this monolithic entity that's taken over our mind and body, it's not going to be possible. But once we see the changing nature of it, which it actually has, you know, we're not superimposing something on it, then it becomes possible to channel the energy.

• 20:35Dan Harris?

  The English translation for an ancient phraseology around the power of mindfulness vis a vis emotions is seeing by dividing. When you can look at anger's true nature, which is that it's inherently substanceless, you know, there's no core to it. It feels monolithic and super-powerful, but it's actually made up of a shifting set of physical and psychological phenomena. Well, then you're not so owned by it, and you can do a smarter, more helpful thing. Having said that, I suspect, you know, I have this ability that I often brag about, Sharon, which is that I can channel the thoughts of my listeners and viewers. I suspect there are people out there thinking...

• 21:18Dan Harris?

  Okay, okay, I hear you. Meditation is good, blah, blah, blah. But really, in the face of the polycrisis, in the face of the many dumpster fires that are raging domestically and globally right now, you're telling me that sitting still is going to be useful in any way? That seems avoidant or self-indulgent, the opposite of helpful.

• 21:40Speaker 01

  Well, I think if you admire, say, movement leaders, you know, it's interesting to inquire about where they get their ability to have a sustained effort. You know, it's like I used to, because I was alive, although younger, of course, during the civil rights movement. And so I was like, too young to go off and try to do voter registration, but I knew people who did. And in the face of not only threats, but violence. And it was so important. It's part of why I think I formed the conviction that voting is like a sacred act, which I really do believe. And it is, it is the equitable voice, you

• 22:23Speaker 01

  know, we all have one vote, we have one voice if we live here. Not everyone I noticed is from here, when they were signing in, but, or any other democratic country. And so I really saw, I mean, or you look at the film clips, you know, of the news of that day, and people going out and getting beaten and going out again, and kind of shining, you know, didn't seem bitter, they didn't seem hostile. And so in a way, they were connecting to something bigger. And I used to reflect in a sort of naive way, well, isn't it amazing? They had the strength to do that, not knowing when they would, they would win,

• 23:08Speaker 01

  not knowing when they would prevail. And then one day I realized they didn't know if they would prevail. Right? It wasn't a question of when, but is this even going to work? We don't know. And they were able to connect to something bigger. And so it doesn't have to be meditation, of course, it could be many other things. But there is something that ignites people. And also, I think, when, you know, to the degree I've talked to people, say, leading the fast food worker strikes in New York, you know, when they were striking for higher minimum wage and the ability to unionize, and, you know, talking to some of those people, and they would say things like, everybody wanted me

• 23:53Speaker 01

  to be quiet, you know, my family said, you know, basically, don't rock the boat, because you have almost nothing now, and you will have really nothing if you antagonize these people in power. And this one woman said, I just couldn't do that, because I came to realize I was worth something. I was worth more, I was worth better treatment. And not only that, I looked at the younger generation coming up, and I wanted better for them, you know. So somehow, I have found that, and it is, you know, lots of different means for different people, that ability to connect to something bigger, that ability to have a different kind of self-respect, not because we've, you know, had a particular accomplishment,

• 24:38Speaker 01

  just because we are, we exist. For me, that all has come from meditation. And I think it's essential to have a sustained, I mean, look how tired we are, you know, and how overcome we get. How do we sustain an effort to make a difference? We need some other sources of strength. And I would say, very genuinely, for me, that's come from meditation practice. So I think one has to try to find it somewhere. If not in meditation, in meditation, you don't sort of need equipment, you don't need to buy anything, you just need to breathe.

• 25:11Dan Harris?

  Let me ask you about something else that I suspect, that I know people are struggling with, because they're telling me. I will say, I was inspired to ask this next question because Kelly, one of our subscribers, just wrote in that I did read her mind, and that she's always thinking that she's not doing enough. And so I want to ask you a question about guilt, this feeling that we're never doing enough. We got a separate message about this from another subscriber, Barbara, and I'll read it. "How do I deal with feelings of guilt about the fact that I live comfortably and safely in my own home with plenty to eat, healthcare available, et cetera, while so many do not have that? I give money to support organizations, but there are so many who need more. I just feel it is not fair

• 25:54Dan Harris?

  /right/ whatever, and I don't know how to deal with it."

• 25:58Speaker 01

  In terms of not doing enough, I think we never feel we're doing enough, because problems are complex, their systems are terrible. I mean, any, for example, I am a consumer of the healthcare system, more than I'd like to be, and it is tough, you know, to make your way through. I do believe in a bigger picture, and in the mystery of the unfolding of life. We do what we can do, and it, it will not seem like enough, but it is what we can do right now. Hopefully, we do do that. And I think what happens when we're

• 26:38Speaker 01

  lucky, very lucky, over time, we see, oh, that planted a seed, or that did something is, you know, the story I often tell about first opening the Insight Meditation Society 50 years ago. And within a month, we got two letters that were remarkable for how they were addressed. The first, instead of being addressed to the Insight Meditation Society, was addressed to the Instant Meditation Society. And I really like that, you know, because aren't, isn't that what we're trained to? We need instant gratification, or something's not worth it. But the second really became my favorite. And that envelope, instead of

• 27:20Speaker 01

  being addressed to the Insight Meditation Society, was addressed to the Hindsight Meditation Society. And I love that, because there have been so many times in my meditation life, my spiritual life, where I felt like nothing was happening, only for me to look back later and say, oh, look at that, something was happening. And many, many times in my life of trying to be of service, or trying to make a difference, where I thought, wow, it's a waste. And yet, sometimes, looking back, I think, oh, look, look, what happened? In a way I couldn't have guessed, that rippled out, or that helped someone else have some strength to, to confront something, or not feel so alone. And I so firmly believe in

• 28:05Speaker 01

  the Hindsight Meditation Society. And every once in a while, when IMS would have a significant anniversary, you know, the 10th anniversary, the 15th anniversary, and they were making stuff, I have some here, but it's not around, right? You know, they'd make mugs, and caps, and t-shirts, and things like that. Every time, I'd say, couldn't we have something that says the Hindsight Meditation Society? And every time, they'd say, no. And then, for our 40th anniversary, I asked again, and they said, no. But somebody made me like 20 mugs that say Hindsight Meditation Society. So I do have a collection. I believe it

• 28:43Speaker 01

  so deeply, that we do what we do, and it will unfold, you know, it just really does. I also am writing, like I said, and I was just writing this story, that John Kabat-Zinn told, I think he often tells it about him being a science student at MIT. One day, he just saw like, a piece of paper pasted onto the wall, that said Zen Meditation Session, Classroom, whatever. And he had no idea what it was about, but he was drawn to it. And he went, and there were like, four or five other students there only, and I think

• 29:25Speaker 01

  the faculty advisor. And there was a Zen teacher, Kapler Roshi, who at one point was the abbot of Rochester Zen Center. And so this is total projection, I have no idea if it's true, but I can imagine Kapler Roshi going to his hotel that night, and thinking, boy, that was a bummer, you know, like, only five people showed up, and I didn't really make a difference, and so said. But one of them was John Kabat-Zinn, who went on later in life to found mindfulness-based stress reduction, and actually really completely changed the world of meditation and research. So I think about that, you know, and I don't know if that Kapler Roshi was really thinking that, but I would have, perhaps, you know,

• 30:09Speaker 01

  thought, oh, so sad, you know, like, I came all the way here, and nothing happened. But we don't know. And so I believe it so powerfully, that I, I challenge that, that feeling of guilt and not doing enough.

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• 32:25Dan Harris?

  There's an active discussion in the chat around, like, how do you even define enough? You know, what qualifies as enough?

• 32:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:33Dan Harris?

  I would imagine, I mean, I can't answer for you, but you know, meditation teachers talk about the wisdom factor in the mind, like this innate wisdom that we have that's often papered over by Instagram and other obnoxious external forces. I think if we can, we have some innate wisdom that tells us, like, okay, this is what we're capable of. This is what our nervous system can bear. And we'll just do what is ours to do and hopefully feel good enough about it. To be a little.

• 33:05Speaker 01

  And then in terms of, you know, living a privileged life. And I mean, that kind of parallel question is, is it okay to experience joy when so many people are suffering? Is it okay to have a good time? And I, you know, I've seen that certainly in different activists. And those are the activists who crash and burn.

• 33:26Speaker 01

  Because we have to be realistic. I think about what does feed us and what nourishes us. And, you know, because the point isn't,

• 33:38Speaker 01

  it's like when in Buddhist teaching, when compassion, one of the ways compassion is defined

• 33:44Speaker 01

  is the movement towards suffering to see if we can be of help. It's not the movement into suffering to burn up ourselves because then nothing happens, right? And so we have to think of what nourishes us, what gives us resilience, what feeds us, what helps us, what strengthens us so that we can move towards suffering. And that often involves, strangely, overcoming a resistance to taking in joy. You know, especially at the same time and parallel to experiencing genuinely all the suffering that is.

• 34:30Dan Harris?

  Well said. This may be our last question. It's a big one. And it's, this is from a very different perspective. This is from somebody whose life is being actively disrupted by the news. So this is a person who's really being directly impacted, not feeling guilty that other people are impacted. So here we go. Surviving the news is hard enough, but how do you do it when it's directly affecting you? My wife is deployed. I keep hearing about the war and the asshole in the White House keeps flapping his big mouth. And I'm just filled with rage because it feels like it will never end. It feels like I'll never have my wife back. It feels like my son will never see his other mom again. How do I approach this without going insane? I try to avoid the news,

• 35:13Dan Harris?

  but I also feel like I need to know what's going on. It's so goddamn hard. Kaylee, first of all, Kaylee, for my, just for me personally, that situation sounds brutally difficult. And I am very sorry for you, for your wife, and for your son. I think perhaps the heart of that question is about, like, the balance between staying informed and driving yourself nuts. But, but pick any part of it you want, Sharon.

• 35:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, it was also, I was thinking, before you asked the question, I thought, I haven't asked Dan any questions. You know, isn't it time to turn this around? And I'm also, you know, very sorry, especially, you know, with a child and being so deeply impacted. I think in this case, you know, when I was doing the last Eight Full Path class on Sunday, and there were a number of questions about being impacted by suffering. And so what I said there was, I knew this was coming up. And I said, I don't know that it's only a question of surviving the news. It's a question of surviving reality.

• 36:26Speaker 01

  And I wanted to expand the scope of this discussion to surviving reality. So here we are. The first thing that I thought of, and I thought of our friend Michi John, her work in the military and the work that she's done with military spouses and families. And, but I think the element of it that really came to mind was not feeling so alone. There is a community of people going through very similar things. And it's not just a question of getting together to share outrage, and although that may well be a part of it, but to really hear from one another and learn from one another.

• 37:06Speaker 01

  Because I think the aloneness and the feeling of struggle, and it's just me, and this is so monumental, is just makes things so much harder. You know, and so I know from, Michi John's a neuroscientist who, whose work is really bringing mindfulness and to some extent, loving kindness practices to people in high, high-stress situations, including the military. And I know from her, just the depth of the communities that have evolved, you know, from people sharing that kind of work in the military. And so that would be the first thing. Well, it's maybe a little bit of a take off, Dan. I'll never suffer alone, you know,

• 37:50Speaker 01

  or struggle alone, or never worry alone. I've heard you say all that. That was, you know, primarily what came to mind. And I also want to really appreciate the question and the point of view because we can hold a lot of things in abstraction, and they're real. These are real people. And giving voice to that is actually a huge help. And not letting people forget. It reminds me a little bit, I was teaching with Roshi John Halifax at her Zen center in Santa Fe. And they were sponsoring a lot of programs of trying to help people in community, various communities. And one of her students, who was also a Zen priest, got up and they had announced they were going to have a discussion about,

• 38:35Speaker 01

  they had like a feeding program for people who were homeless. And he got up and the first thing he said was, my father's homeless. And suddenly, the entire discussion was about someone's father. You know, and not a kind of abstract homeless person that we're going to try to do a good deed with. And that's what's real. And I think this is, it's so crucial and so valuable that you give voice to it.

• 39:03Dan Harris?

  Somebody was asking the name of the person who wrote in about the spouse being overseas. The name is Kaylee. Part of Kaylee's question, as I heard it, was about, you know, the balance between staying informed and, on the one hand, and like overdoing it on the other. To me, then, I'd be curious if you have a take on this, Sharon. But like, to me, it's about the innate wisdom we talked about before. Like, I think we have a sense, and this sense can be bolstered through mindfulness practice, of how much our nervous system can bear. And for me, I just try to tune into that. And if I notice I'm going, you know,

• 39:44Dan Harris?

  I'm on hour three of, you know, reading the news, I might put the phone down. You know, that is what I would recommend to others as has been referenced in some of, in some of the posts on the chat board during the course of this recording. Sabina Selassie, our mutual friend and a great Dharma teacher in her own right, has a rule for herself, which is no news before noon. And so having these little guardrails that you set based on how much you understand your own nervous system, I think is crucial.

• 40:18Speaker 01

  I think that's so important. And I was on a previous podcast with you, Dan, and I don't even remember the topic. But at one point, I said, one of the reasons I don't watch television news at all is because I realized that I had a great sensitivity to deceit, to feeling that I was being lied to, to gaslighting. There were many secrets in my childhood. I have a pretty traumatic reaction when I hear that. And so I've learned, you know, that's a vulnerability and I need to have a boundary, you know, in order to flourish. Because my flourishing, obviously,

• 41:03Speaker 01

  is connected to the ways I can serve. And so I think I totally agree, you know. And I've often quoted Sabina, not that I follow it, you know, so perfectly, no news before noon. When people ask me, you know, we do form out of our intuition and our sensitivity, things that we won't do or some realization about how we will pursue things. And I think that's great.

• 41:30Dan Harris?

  Yeah, one little rule that I've been following for myself. I had done this many years ago, but then I had Arthur Brooks on the show a couple of months ago, and he recommended it. And I've started to get much more disciplined, is that the first and last hour of the day, I'm off devices. And often, I'll try to make it more than an hour. But that's my rough rule. I don't always follow it, but as a North Star, I find it really helpful. Well, Sharon, it's always a pleasure to talk to you.

• 42:00Speaker 01

  Always a pleasure to talk to you. Next time, I want to ask you more questions.

• 42:06Dan Harris?

  You have infinite opportunities to do that because we get, luckily for me, we get to hang out offline IRL. You organized a lovely little lunch for me as I was emerging from my most recent 13-day meditation retreat, which I really appreciated and was really fun. Thank you for your time today. Thanks for being a teacher of the month on the 10% app.

• 42:29Speaker 01

  Yes, I want a T-shirt. You know, I've never been teacher of the month before.

• 42:33Dan Harris?

  You seem to like mugs, so maybe.

• 42:34Speaker 01

  I do like mugs, actually. I do really like mugs.

• 42:38Dan Harris?

  I wanted to say, I have a, you gave me a hindsight meditation aside mug. It holds my toothbrush in our bathroom.

• 42:46Speaker 01

  So you see it every day?

• 42:47Dan Harris?

  I see it every day, yes. Thank you again, Sharon. Always great to see you. Thanks to everybody for posting your amazing questions and for being here, for which I am eternally grateful. I hope you have a great rest of the day and I'll see you next Tuesday. Also, a quick ask before I let you go. If you've got a minute, head on over to danharris.com and sign up for my newsletter. It drops in your inbox on Monday mornings, often a busy and stressful time for us. I try to write a short essay that has a little bit of wisdom, actionable, practical wisdom that you can immediately weave into your life on Monday mornings. A lot of people find them helpful and I hope you will too. You can sign up at danharris.com.

• 43:31Dan Harris?

  It's totally free. Now to the credits. Thank you so much to everybody who works so hard to make this show. 10% Happier is produced by Tara Anderson, Barissa Schneiderman, DJ Kashmir, David Hart, and Hayden Broome. Post-production is handled by the great folks over at Greenhorn Creative and Nick Thorburn of the great indie rock band Islands wrote our theme. Thank you for listening. Deuces.

• 43:56Speaker 04

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