Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life

In this episode of The Oprah Podcast global podcasting sensation and bestselling author Mel Robbins shares life-altering lessons from her new book, The Let Them Theory: A Life-Changing Tool That Millions of People Can’t Stop Talking About which will be published on December 24th, 2024. Sharing relatable strategies, this wife and mother of three uses her own life lessons to clarify how The Let Them Theory gives you the tools to stop giving away your power and take control of your own life. Subscribe: https://www.youtube.com/@Oprah BUY THE BOOK! "The Let Them Theory: A Life-Changing Tool That Millions of People Can’t Stop Talking About" by Mel Robbins, published by Hay House LLC is available wherever books and audio books are sold: https://amzn.to/4hc6SZr Explore Rejuvenation Home Furnishings | Visit the Rejuvenation Website: www.rejuvenation.com http://www.rejuvenation.com/ Follow Oprah Winfrey on Social: https://www.instagram.com/oprah/ https://www.facebook.com/oprahwinfrey/ Listen to the full podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/0tEVrfNp92a7lbjDe6GMLI https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-oprah-podcast/id1782960381

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Oprah Winfrey?

  Who's coming to my podcast? We've never met. I hear that distinct voice. Come on Mel!

• 0:10Speaker 01

  Oh my God! Oh, I just wanted to look in your eyes, but first let me just feel your...

• 0:17Speaker 01

  Oh my gosh.

• 0:18Oprah Winfrey?

  Look at us. We're here.

• 0:20Speaker 01

  I have been waiting for this moment, and I am so ready.

• 0:24Oprah Winfrey?

  Really?

• 0:25Speaker 01

  Oh, this is so much bigger than a conversation.

• 0:27Oprah Winfrey?

  You're having a moment.

• 0:29Speaker 01

  You know, I've had a lot of low moments.

• 0:31Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 0:33Speaker 01

  And there's a lot of my life that I have not been present for. And I'm not gonna miss this.

• 0:40Oprah Winfrey?

  Thank you.

• 0:40Speaker 01

  Thank you for recognizing.

• 0:46Oprah Winfrey?

  So everybody, thanks for joining us on this podcast. I'm so glad to be able to have this time to share with my very, very special guest, Mel Robbins.

• 0:59Speaker 01

  Hey, it's your friend Mel. I'm so excited that you're here with me today.

• 1:03Oprah Winfrey?

  Mel Robbins began her career as an attorney and worked sometimes as a radio host. While she and her husband Chris were raising their three children, a business failure landed them $800,000 in debt.

• 1:18Oprah Winfrey?

  To make money, Mel started a new path as a life coach and motivational speaker. A friend invited her to do a TEDx Talk. Mel called it "How to Stop Screwing Yourself Over." It turned out to be a prophetic title.

• 1:31Speaker 01

  When you feel stuck or dissatisfied in your life, it's a signal.

• 1:36Oprah Winfrey?

  It's now one of the most watched TEDx Talks ever and was the catalyst where the Mel Robbins millions know and follow today. Her mix of authenticity and no-nonsense advice is the secret behind two bestselling books and her mega-hit, The Mel Robbins Podcast.

• 1:56Speaker 01

  And I also wanted to be sure to tell you, in case no one else tells you, that I love you and I believe in you.

• 2:01Oprah Winfrey?

  Powerhouse speaker, your global podcast sensation and bestselling author. Just, I mean, can you even take all of that in yourself? Can you take it all in?

• 2:15Speaker 01

  I can in this moment because I'm sitting across from you.

• 2:17Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 2:18Speaker 01

  And I have been so in the dirt.

• 2:23Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 2:24Speaker 01

  And taken it one day at a time.

• 2:26Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah, I understand that.

• 2:27Speaker 01

  And one conversation at a time, that when you're focused on just what you can do in this moment, or what you can do to get through the day, or what you can do to make things a little bit better for yourself, or the people that you care about, or strangers that you bump into.

• 2:43Oprah Winfrey?

  Mm-hmm. Okay, so let me say this. I have, over the years, read probably thousands of books. And this is by far just one of the best self-help books I've ever read. It is, it is right up there with all the greats. All the greats. And the reason it is, I think it's a life changer, it's life altering for anybody who reads it, because it's your personal story. It's like you're speaking into our ear, and it comes with your knowledge

• 3:26Oprah Winfrey?

  and your acknowledgement of the mistakes that you have made. And it just is there to set people free. Yes. That's what you've done.

• 3:38Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 3:39Oprah Winfrey?

  That's what you did.

• 3:40Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 3:41Oprah Winfrey?

  It's incredible, it's incredible. I couldn't believe it, page after page after page after page.

• 3:45Speaker 01

  Yes!

• 3:46Oprah Winfrey?

  Yes, I couldn't believe it, I couldn't believe it, I couldn't believe it. And it's so simple, you know what I love about it is, is that you're saying in these pages everything I was trying to say for 25 years.

• 3:59Speaker 01

  I heard you.

• 4:00Oprah Winfrey?

  Day after day after day after day after day after day. So let's start with the lightbulb moment. Can we start the lightbulb moment?

• 4:07Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 4:07Oprah Winfrey?

  The prom, I love this moment.

• 4:09Speaker 01

  You know, Oprah, I have dreamt about the day that I would get to sit down and be with you. And in all of those manifestations and dreams, never in a million years did I think I would be telling you that my life changed at a high school prom.

• 4:28Speaker 01

  Never in a million years. And we have three children. And so the first two are girls. And having gone through the prom with them, I mean, that was like five months of headaches and spray tans and promposals and stress and ah. And when it was finally done, I was like, oh, my gosh. Thank goodness that's over. So when our son Oakley was coming to his prom, I thought this is going to be a breeze. And it was actually way worse because he was so noncommittal. We didn't even know if he was going to go.

• 4:54Oprah Winfrey?

  Two weeks before.

• 4:56Speaker 01

  Two days.

• 4:56Oprah Winfrey?

  I thought it was two weeks.

• 4:57Speaker 01

  Two days before.

• 4:59Oprah Winfrey?

  Okay, two days before.

• 5:00Speaker 01

  Two days before. He's all of a sudden like, I think I'm going to go. And I'm like, we live in the middle of Vermont. Where am I going to get a tux? Oh, and now you want those white tennis shoes? And so it was like boom, boom, boom, boom. Forty-eight hours of stress, stress, stress. And so we finally get to the point where Chris is like putting his tie on and we're about to run out the door and we're heading to the pre-prom photos. And so we get to the pre-prom photos. We take the photos. And because of the buildup, I'm like already stressed out.

• 5:28Oprah Winfrey?

  Because it's his first prom.

• 5:30Speaker 01

  Yes, and because I've been a lunatic. I mean, I'm like controlling and I'm trying to find stuff. And now I'm trying to micromanage everything. And we get to the prom. We take the photos. Everything's fine. And then out of nowhere, it starts to rain. And by rain, I mean downpour. And so now you got 20 kids in black tie and all of these parents milling about. And now everyone's starting to look around because nobody has umbrellas, nobody has anything. And so I turned to Oak and I'm like, hey, where are you guys going for dinner? Because I'm thinking I need to help with the situation. He's like, well, I don't know. And I'm like, wait, you don't have dinner plans?

• 6:04Oprah Winfrey?

  And you got 20 kids?

• 6:05Speaker 01

  Yes. And then I turned to my husband. They don't have dinner plans? He's like, I guess not. And so now I'm getting all activated over something dumb. And I start to look at my phone for reservations for 20 kids. And I can't find anything. And the other parents are milling about. And I'm like, Oak, what are you going to do? And he's like, I think we're going to go to the taco stand. Now, keep in mind, this is like something that four kids can fit in.

• 6:24Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 6:24Speaker 01

  These kids are in black tie. It's pouring rain. And I'm like, what? And I don't know what it was, Oprah. But I just was about to go into monster control mode. And my daughter, who was home from college, reaches out, grabs my arm with that sort of like forceful grip and yanks me towards her. And she's like, um, you're being annoying.

• 6:48Oprah Winfrey?

  Was this Sawyer?

• 6:49Speaker 01

  This was Kendall.

• 6:50Oprah Winfrey?

  Okay, this was Kendall.

• 6:51Speaker 01

  This was Kendall. So. I'm like, but, but it's right. And she's like, Mom, if they want to get wet, let them get wet. But, but, but he's gonna ruin his shoes. Mom, if he's gonna ruin his shoes, ruin his shoes. But, but, but her dress. Mom, let them. Mom, let them do what they want to do. But they don't have a dress. Let them eat at Taco Stand. Let them get wet. Let them dance all night in wet tuxedos. For crying out loud, Mom, it's their prom, not yours. Just let them. And there was something about the cascade of let them, let them, let them, let them. That just hit me. And I thought, yeah, let them, let them. Why am I thinking about his dinner?

• 7:36Speaker 01

  Why am I not thinking about mine?

• 7:37Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah. And why couldn't you just let them? So what if the sneakers get wet? And so what? You, you, you left out the part about the whole corsage. You'd wanted her to have the corsage. And then your son said, Oakley said, no, no corsages. And then you're standing there with the corsage. Let them, let her not have the corsage. Let them.

• 7:54Speaker 01

  I was so...

• 7:56Oprah Winfrey?

  Did you know then how powerful it was?

• 7:58Speaker 01

  No, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, I went, I, I just felt like my self-release.

• 8:03Oprah Winfrey?

  Mm-hmm.

• 8:04Speaker 01

  And the next day, I'm standing at the Garden Center.

• 8:07Oprah Winfrey?

  Mm-hmm.

• 8:07Speaker 01

  And you know how when you're in line and there's like five people in front of you? And it's like beep, beep, beep? And you feel the stress rise up and you start looking around and you feel all agitated? And then you start thinking in your head, you know, why aren't they getting any other, better thing to open up here?

• 8:23Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah, what's going on up there?

• 8:24Speaker 01

  What's going on up here? And now all of a sudden, you think you can run a grocery store or a garden center better than anybody else? And then you're fussing and you're like, let them. And it was like instant peace. And I started to say, let them. Anytime I was in a situation where I was annoyed or stressed out or bothered or hurt or worried or frustrated? And it had this unbelievable impact of having an immediate release.

• 8:55Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 8:56Speaker 01

  And what I started to notice, full stop, is that I didn't have time and energy because I was turning other people into a major problem in my life.

• 9:09Oprah Winfrey?

  All the time.

• 9:10Speaker 01

  All the time. I was giving my power to other people, what they were doing, what they were saying, what they were thinking. So if I go back to the grocery store... What's amazing about that story, you're standing in line, the stress is coming up. When you start to get all flustered by what other people are doing, you're now trying to control something you can't control. Because you will never be able to control what other people are doing, what they think, what they say. You cannot control how a grocery store is staffed, or how fast the line is moving. And when you focus on things that you can't control, you miss the single biggest, most amazing thing about life. That you are actually always in control.

• 9:53Speaker 01

  Because there are three things that are always within your control, Oprah. You can always control what you think. You can always control what you do, or don't do. And you can always control what you do in response to the feelings that rise up. So instead of standing there in a line and burning up for 15 minutes over something stupid, and then allowing that to stress me out all day and affect the rest of my day, when I say "let them", I immediately recognize that this is something that...

• 10:28Oprah Winfrey?

  I have no power over.

• 10:29Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 10:30Oprah Winfrey?

  I have no power over.

• 10:31Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 10:31Oprah Winfrey?

  Yes.

• 10:32Speaker 01

  Correct. But I do have power, because I can leave the store.

• 10:36Oprah Winfrey?

  Yes, I always say that. That's why I love that Wizard of Oz. There's so many wonderful teachings there. When Glinda the Good Witch says, "Go away, you have no power here", it's because that's not your territory. You only have territory in your own body and your own person.

• 10:51Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 10:52Oprah Winfrey?

  And you have no power in anybody else's territory. This is what I love. In my mind, the crux of the "let them, let me" theory, which is most important, is that the more you say this, the more you allow people to live their lives, the better your life will get. The more control you give up, the more you actually gain. Can you explain that, Mel?

• 11:13Speaker 01

  I absolutely can. We have spent our entire lives managing, worrying... About other people. We have made it our jobs to make other people happy. We have made it our job to have opinions about the grocery store, about what our kids are doing. And in doing so, you have given all of your power to something you will never be able to control.

• 11:36Oprah Winfrey?

  Absolutely.

• 11:37Speaker 01

  And what I discovered, Oprah, is that the more that I said, "Let them," the more I noticed

• 11:42Oprah Winfrey?

  Yes.

• 11:42Speaker 01

  That I was spending time wishing that people would be different. I was spending time judging the people in my life. I was spending time wanting people to be in different moods. And that is time that I could actually redirect back at myself and focus on what I can

• 11:59Oprah Winfrey?

  So if they're in a bad mood, let them!

• 12:00Speaker 01

  Why is it your job to manage somebody else's mood? Why? And better yet, why should somebody else's mood at work, at home, wherever, impact your mood?

• 12:15Oprah Winfrey?

  Mm-hmm. I love this on page 56, where you say, "Why get stressed out about things beyond your control that don't really matter? How does something so small have such a large impact on you?"

• 12:24Speaker 01

  Because you allow it. Because you allow it. And this is the huge thing in this. What is happening around you does not have to happen to you.

• 12:34Oprah Winfrey?

  Right.

• 12:35Speaker 01

  What other people are doing, yes, you are going to feel something, you're going to have an opinion, you will respond. This is human nature. But what you do in response to what somebody else is doing is where your power is. This is how you take responsibility for your life, Oprah. And let's look at the word responsibility.

• 12:52Oprah Winfrey?

  Yes.

• 12:52Speaker 01

  It is the ability to respond. And we forget, when we get ourselves so stressed out because the grocery line isn't moving the way that you think it should be moving, and now you're draining your life force over something so stupid. And then you wonder, why are you so tired? Why are you so overwhelmed? Why are you last on your list? It's because you allow death by a thousand cuts. You allow people's moods and inconsiderate strangers and the headlines in the news to be something that impacts you. There's a different way to live. You just say, "Let them."

• 13:26Oprah Winfrey?

  Let them.

• 13:27Speaker 01

  Because what you're doing, and this is the really important part... Is you are recognizing that this is not within my control. Therefore, it is not worth my time and energy. And if you respect yourself and if you love yourself, you will focus your time and energy on what is within your control.

• 13:45Oprah Winfrey?

  And that becomes let me.

• 13:46Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 13:47Oprah Winfrey?

  Yes.

• 13:47Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 13:48Oprah Winfrey?

  Let them and then let me.

• 13:49Speaker 01

  Yes, so there's two parts to the theory. The first one, everybody loves because when you say let them.

• 13:54Oprah Winfrey?

  Yes.

• 13:54Speaker 01

  You're gonna feel superior to everybody else.

• 13:56Oprah Winfrey?

  That's right.

• 13:57Speaker 01

  And it helps you detach.

• 13:58Oprah Winfrey?

  But I also like what you say, Mel, that it's not the same thing as letting go. Let them is not the same thing as letting go. Explain that.

• 14:07Speaker 01

  You know, I have never been able to let anything go. That probably doesn't surprise anybody. I just feel like if somebody were to tell me, Mel, just let it go. You know, just, just let it go. Your mom's disappointed, just let it go. But it feels like I'm defeated. It feels like I have no choice.

• 14:27Oprah Winfrey?

  That's right, that you surrendered.

• 14:29Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 14:29Oprah Winfrey?

  Yes.

• 14:30Speaker 01

  I like to feel the peace of surrender, but I didn't know how to access it. And I think one of the things that I really strive to do is that if something's complicated or it's too intellectual, I can't remember it or I can't apply it.

• 14:48Oprah Winfrey?

  Well, this is one of the things I love about you and your podcast and your work here on the planet at this time where it's most needed. You break down complicated ideas into simple terms and forms that people can understand and relate to. And so, let them, you know, the Buddhists have said it, the Stoics have said it, great religions have all talked about letting go and letting God. But you put it in common, everyday language and principles that are not just relatable, but resonate. And that's why I had aha after aha after aha moment when I was reading this book. And I know that you are a woman who's made for this time.

• 15:32Oprah Winfrey?

  For such a time as this.

• 15:34Speaker 01

  Yes, and, and everybody needs this tool.

• 15:38Speaker 01

  Because there is so much in the world right now

• 15:41Oprah Winfrey?

  Mm-hmm.

• 15:41Speaker 01

  that is out of your control.

• 15:42Oprah Winfrey?

  Yes.

• 15:43Speaker 01

  From the headlines to global politics, to what's happening at the local school board, to what your mother's mood is, to the stress that your kids are feeling.

• 15:53Oprah Winfrey?

  And I love what you said about that. Everybody's already voted. You had the two candidates. The decisions have been made. And so, let them. It's done. Now decide what you can do and let yourself do that. And if you can't, let them.

• 16:08Speaker 01

  Right. And the second part of the theory, which is let me,

• 16:13Oprah Winfrey?

  Yes.

• 16:14Speaker 01

  is actually the more important part.

• 16:15Oprah Winfrey?

  Yes.

• 16:16Speaker 01

  And the reason why is because, first of all, you have to say let them. Because you can't take control of your own life until you stop trying to control everybody else and everything around you. And so, let them is when you release control.

• 16:31Oprah Winfrey?

  Oh, my goodness, it's so freeing.

• 16:34Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 16:34Oprah Winfrey?

  Yes.

• 16:35Speaker 01

  And then you have to say, let me.

• 16:38Oprah Winfrey?

  Mm-hmm.

• 16:39Speaker 01

  Because let me is where you cue yourself.

• 16:43Oprah Winfrey?

  Yes.

• 16:43Speaker 01

  In any moment.

• 16:45Oprah Winfrey?

  Yes.

• 16:45Speaker 01

  Whether you're upset about the election.

• 16:47Oprah Winfrey?

  Yes.

• 16:48Speaker 01

  Or somebody just said, "I don't love you and I'm leaving."

• 16:51Oprah Winfrey?

  Yep.

• 16:52Speaker 01

  Or you got a terrible health diagnosis. Or your kid is struggling. It's where you say, let me remind myself. I always have power. Because I can always choose what I'm gonna think about this. And what a beautiful thing that is. And I get to choose what I'm gonna do or what I'm not gonna do. And this is where you remind yourself that you do get to choose if you stay in a relationship. You do get to choose if you're gonna offer support or not.

• 17:19Oprah Winfrey?

  And that's why you say you're never stuck. All the people who say you get stuck, you're never stuck because you always get to choose.

• 17:25Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 17:26Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah. You say that's a lie to yourself, that you can leave a job. You can leave a relationship. You can leave a living situation, a date, an interview, or conversation, whatever, you're never stuck.

• 17:38Speaker 01

  Never, ever, ever, ever, ever stuck.

• 17:41Oprah Winfrey?

  Ding ding ding.

• 17:42Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 17:43Oprah Winfrey?

  Amen to that.

• 17:43Speaker 01

  And here's, I wanna really underline this. Because we convince ourselves, when you stay in a job... And your job is not going anywhere. It doesn't make you feel good.

• 17:54Oprah Winfrey?

  But a lot of people feel I have to stay there because I need the money.

• 17:58Speaker 01

  Of course you do. But do you know how many jobs are on the planet? And if you actually are staying in a job hoping it gets better, who has the power? Your boss.

• 18:08Oprah Winfrey?

  Right.

• 18:08Speaker 01

  And the people that you work for.

• 18:10Oprah Winfrey?

  Right.

• 18:10Speaker 01

  So you gotta let them reveal who they are. You gotta let them reveal whether or not they value you and how they're gonna treat you. And then you gotta say, "Let me. Let me choose if I'm gonna stay in this situation. Let me remind myself that I am capable of doing the work to go out and get a different job. Let me remind myself that it is my responsibility to create a life that makes me happy, which means if I'm not happy in this job, don't you dare stay in it and give the power to them. Take the power back. Let me get my rear end out there and go find a job."

• 18:42Oprah Winfrey?

  Well, I had so many underlying spaces in this book. I was just like, "Well, I just need to stop highlighting and just read the whole book." Okay, I love this on page 90. "You're so much stronger than anyone's opinions about you." And I think that is so... I need to remind myself about that now because there's so much vitriol and crazy things and conspiracy theories and all kinds of nutsoyed stuff on the internet that I just can't even imagine. People think that's true or they're saying those things about me, but let them.

• 19:15Speaker 01

  Well, and here's why you have to. Because I want to remind you that if you want a better life and if you want to tap into your potential and if you want better relationships, you need the time and energy that you're wasting on things you can't control.

• 19:30Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 19:30Speaker 01

  And you need the energy that is being drained by all these things that you are allowing to stress you out. You need that energy and time to actually do the work. To advance your own goals and your own health and your own relationships. And so instead of giving your time and energy to all this other stuff, the more you say let them, the more you're actually honoring your time and energy. It is the ultimate boundary. And I want to explain something Oprah about the power that you give to somebody else's opinion. Okay?

• 20:01Oprah Winfrey?

  Yes, please do.

• 20:02Speaker 01

  So as you're spending time together with me and Oprah right now, I want you to just think about your favorite social media platform. And I want you to think about the moment where you're about to create a post. And so you pick a photo and then you're like, mm, I don't really like that photo. And then you pick another photo and then you're thinking about the filters. And then you go to start to write the caption and then you're like, here's an emoji. Or should I write that? Is that a little bit too much? For who? I want you to stop and consider that that entire time, who are you giving power to? You are actually giving power to what another human being is potentially going to think about what you're about to do.

• 20:43Speaker 01

  Now, you will never be able to control or guarantee what another person thinks about you. Because the average person has 70,000 thoughts a day and you can't even control half of the ones that pop in your mind. So what on earth makes you think you could crawl up in someone else's head with your social media post and guarantee that they're not gonna unfollow you or they're not gonna roll their eyes or whatever? And I'm telling you this because it's something you can relate to. And I need to remind you, your social media is for you. That's for your self-expression. That is for you to be able to put out into the world, your art, the things you care about.

• 21:26Speaker 01

  And how sad is it that in that moment, you are giving power to another person's opinion?

• 21:33Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah, because you're putting out what you think they will like instead of what you like.

• 21:36Speaker 01

  Correct. And if you look at all of the draft posts, because everybody has hundreds of them, that is a graveyard of all of your potential. And the reason why you didn't post those things is because you stressed yourself out so much giving power. Or to somebody else's opinion that you exhausted yourself and you didn't do it. And you do this all day long.

• 21:56Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah, well, that's why I like when you say, let me live my life to make myself proud. Let me make decisions that align with my own values. Let me take risks because I want to. Let me follow the path my soul is turning me toward. That's why we're all here.

• 22:13Speaker 01

  That's why we're all here, and you will never do it. If you are constantly afraid of what people are going to think. And so here's how I want you to use the let them theory. Just say, let them think a negative thought.

• 22:25Oprah Winfrey?

  Let them.

• 22:26Speaker 01

  Because that's what you're scared of. I mean, actually say.

• 22:28Oprah Winfrey?

  Absolutely, absolutely.

• 22:29Speaker 01

  Let them think a negative thought. Because once you're released from that fear, and then you say, let me live my life in a way that makes me proud, a funny thing happens. You don't actually think about what other people think when you're proud of yourself because you know the truth.

• 22:47Oprah Winfrey?

  That is so powerful. Okay, when did you learn that?

• 22:55Oprah Winfrey?

  Did you have to learn that the hard way? Did something have to happen?

• 22:57Speaker 01

  Oprah, I learn everything the hard way. Like, I think that is my lot in life, to just dig a hole or fall in one. And just have to figure it out. And I think I've been learning that all along. I still, I use it every day. I mean, I'm proud of myself and I still catch myself stopping and thinking.

• 23:16Oprah Winfrey?

  Well, I want to talk about people that feel like, uh, they can still control other people. You say, here's the truth. When you push someone, it only makes the person push back. You're working against the fundamental law of human nature. People need to feel in control of their decisions. You want people in your life to change, but pressuring them creates resistance to it. You may be acting with the best of intentions, but it's yielding the worst results. That's because every time you fight against human nature, you will lose.

• 23:48Speaker 01

  And let's talk about human nature.

• 23:50Oprah Winfrey?

  Let's talk about that.

• 23:51Speaker 01

  So ultimately, what the let them theory is about is control. And every human being has a fundamental hardwired need to be in control of their lives, themselves, their decisions, their environment. Because when we are in control of our jobs and what we're thinking, we feel safe. Now, here's the problem. If you do something that makes me upset, or worries me, or hurts me, now, I'm gonna need to control you, Oprah, so that I can feel safe. But here's the problem. You have the same need to control yourself that I have in me.

• 24:27Oprah Winfrey?

  Yes, yeah.

• 24:28Speaker 01

  So when I step in and I think that I know best, or I think that you should do something, or I wanna change you, what's gonna happen is, I'm gonna push against your hardwired need to be in control of yourself.

• 24:41Oprah Winfrey?

  Hmm.

• 24:42Speaker 01

  And so, you will push back. And what I want, this changed my marriage, it changed my parenting, it changed my relationship with how I am at work. The let them theory is gonna make space for change to happen. Because people need to feel like changing is their idea. People only change, Oprah, when they are ready to do the work to change.

• 25:07Oprah Winfrey?

  That's what I loved, that you emphasized over and over again, nobody's gonna change until they're ready.

• 25:13Speaker 01

  Yes, and we make the mistake of thinking that we can push somebody else to do it. And when you push against somebody else, especially somebody that is struggling, you know, I often think about the fact that the hardest working kid in a classroom is not the one getting the As. It's the kid who's failing. Because they know that they're not doing well. And they can do well if they can. And if they're not doing well, it's because they're at a moment in their life where they can't. They're missing skills, they're missing hope, they're missing support. And so, the kid that's struggling, or the adult that's struggling, they're in deep, active conflict within themselves.

• 25:57Speaker 01

  A human being knows, Oprah, when they're not reaching their potential.

• 26:00Oprah Winfrey?

  Yes, don't we all?

• 26:01Speaker 01

  Yes. And so, they're already putting so much pressure on themselves because they know that they're not studying and they're not excelling. And we do this with our health. Like, I think the, I think the hard, the people that work the hardest at the health are the people that are struggling with it.

• 26:17Oprah Winfrey?

  Absolutely.

• 26:18Speaker 01

  And we don't stop and think about that. We actually come in with judgment and opinions and suggestions like, "Oh, you know, if you kind of cut calories and go for a walk, you might lose some weight." "Oh, thanks, Einstein." Like, I didn't think about that.

• 26:30Oprah Winfrey?

  That's right, yeah.

• 26:31Speaker 01

  And so when somebody pushes you, even with the best of intentions, what happens is it creates more pressure. And so you didn't actually create motivation. You created resistance.

• 26:43Oprah Winfrey?

  Resentiment and resistance.

• 26:46Speaker 01

  Yes, yes. Yes, and you also created distance in your relationship. And so if you really want people in your life to excel.

• 26:56Oprah Winfrey?

  Because now they'll just try to hide it from you, or not be truthful with you, or not be forthcoming.

• 27:01Speaker 01

  Yes, you have to say, "Let them." Because what it does is it creates, for the first time, space for the person to feel accepted instead of judged. It creates space for them to really learn from life, and it creates space, with your support, for somebody to tap into their own God-given potential to change. And what I've also realized is that every time I have stepped in and tried to pressure one of my kids to study harder, or do this, or do the other thing, you know what I'm actually doing? I'm actually saying to them, "I don't think you're capable of this without me." When you step in and try to do it for somebody else.

• 27:43Oprah Winfrey?

  Yes.

• 27:43Speaker 01

  And you don't just let somebody, face the natural consequences of their decisions. When you keep rescuing somebody or making excuses for them, what you're saying is, "I don't believe you're actually capable of doing this on your own. I don't believe that you're capable or strong enough to rising to this."

• 28:02Oprah Winfrey?

  I love this because this is a big lesson for people with adult children, who they are still supporting financially. You say, "When you enable others with money, your words and your actions, you don't foster independence." At all.

• 28:15Speaker 01

  No.

• 28:16Oprah Winfrey?

  I mean, I had to learn this the hard way because you think by giving people money. And I can tell you for sure, it does the exact opposite.

• 28:25Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 28:26Oprah Winfrey?

  It does the exact opposite.

• 28:27Speaker 01

  It does the exact opposite. And look, it is a good thing to worry about people.

• 28:33Oprah Winfrey?

  Yes.

• 28:33Speaker 01

  It's a great thing to see the potential in somebody. It is an act of love to want somebody to be healthy and vibrant and thriving. That's not the issue. The issue and the problems that I have created for 54 years of my life, Oprah, is that I was going about it the wrong way.

• 28:51Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah. You were going about it the wrong way because what? You didn't, you just didn't know or you didn't know?

• 28:57Speaker 01

  I didn't have the let them theory.

• 28:58Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 28:59Speaker 01

  I had no idea how human beings worked. See, you have to push yourself.

• 29:03Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 29:03Speaker 01

  In order to make change happen. But if you push other people, you actually stop it from happening.

• 29:10Oprah Winfrey?

  Uh, I really related to what you write about jealousy on page 144. In life, if you're not motivated to do something, it's going to take something painful to force you to change.

• 29:23Oprah Winfrey?

  Share with us what happened when you went to your friend's newly remodeled house. One of the reasons I appreciate this book so much is all the stories. You know, Molly, the interior designer. I mean, the fact that you are allowing us to see inside of your mistakes the way that you do.

• 29:37Speaker 01

  So I, this was at a moment in my life where my husband and I were struggling and a lot of people were kind of taking off in their careers, Oprah.

• 29:44Oprah Winfrey?

  Mm-hmm.

• 29:45Speaker 01

  And I remember pulling up to a friend's house and she had just finished a renovation. Beautiful house. It was the kind of house that I'd always dreamt of. I wanted so desperately to be a good friend.

• 30:00Oprah Winfrey?

  And be happy for her.

• 30:01Speaker 01

  And to be happy for her.

• 30:02Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 30:03Speaker 01

  And deep in my heart, she deserves this and I want this for her. But I was so jealous. I was so upset because I was in a place in my life where I wanted these things and I didn't have them. And I was looking at life the wrong way. See, I used to think that if somebody else was winning or got what I wanted, it means I'll never have it. I used to look at other people and I would see them as competitors in the game of life. That if somebody else had a podcast, "Oh, there's too many, I'm too late, you know, can't do it."

• 30:41Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 30:42Speaker 01

  And here's the thing that I learned with the let them theory. Other people never block your way. Only you can do that.

• 30:51Oprah Winfrey?

  Bing, bing, bing, bing, bing. Wow, that is so true.

• 30:55Speaker 01

  Other people lead the way.

• 30:57Oprah Winfrey?

  Yes.

• 30:58Speaker 01

  If you allow them to.

• 31:01Speaker 01

  See, other people show you what's possible. And if you let them be successful and you let them be happy and you let them get in great shape and you let them make a lot of money. They're gonna reveal a formula.

• 31:13Oprah Winfrey?

  That's right.

• 31:15Speaker 01

  And if you're so busy like I was, giving power to other people's success and then...

• 31:21Oprah Winfrey?

  You're preaching here today, Mel. You're preaching here today.

• 31:23Speaker 01

  Yes. No, I'm, I'm, you are capable of creating anything because success, love, happiness, money, friendship, these things are in limitless supply. Limitless.

• 31:34Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 31:35Speaker 01

  And what we get wrong about the game of life is you're not playing against other people, you're playing with them.

• 31:40Oprah Winfrey?

  That's right.

• 31:41Speaker 01

  And you can learn how to be a better player from other people. But if you're so busy giving power to other people's accomplishments and then using that as an example for why it's never gonna happen to you, you're gonna miss the fundamental law about life, which is it's there for everybody's creation.

• 31:58Oprah Winfrey?

  I remember going to a producer's home, who was the richest person I ever known at that time when I was in Baltimore, Arlene Weiner, and I walked into her home and her house was surrounded by trees and there were trees when you looked out the kitchen window. And I was like, "Wow, Arlene is rich. If I ever get some money, I'm gonna have a house with trees."

• 32:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:22Oprah Winfrey?

  And so I use that as my motivation. When I walked, when I first was hired by Steven Spielberg for The Color Purple, I went to his studio at Amblin and that's what gave me the idea for myself, "Oh my God, that means this is possible? A person can have their own studio?" So... It resonated so deeply with me. What you were saying is because I've applied those principles, not even knowing I was applying those principles all these years.

• 32:49Speaker 01

  But I couldn't because I didn't have a tool. I couldn't because I didn't know how to stop the flood of jealousy and insecurity. Because, you know, I take the tour of my friend's house and I see the queen bunk beds and now I know why all the kids are at their house and not at my house and I feel like a gigantic loser. And I'm not evolved. I'm just soaking in my jealousy. And so what I do is I get in the car and my poor husband, Chris, sits down and I just aim it at him as if it's his fault. Because we don't know what to do when we feel so overwhelmed with like doubt and shame and upset. And so we tend to just act out instead of seeing what's possible.

• 33:32Oprah Winfrey?

  How do you not, I mean, even if you say, "Let them," there is a part of you that still compares yourself to that, though?

• 33:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's not a problem. Comparison's natural.

• 33:43Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 33:44Speaker 01

  It's what you do with the comparison that matters.

• 33:47Oprah Winfrey?

  Absolutely.

• 33:48Speaker 01

  So if you use comparison the way that I did in that story and for most of my life, most of my life, I would see somebody doing something or they had achieved something I wanted and I was like, "Well, there you go. Never gonna happen for me." So I was using it to torture myself. I was using the example of somebody else's life as a way to tell me that my dreams are not gonna happen.

• 34:11Oprah Winfrey?

  Instead of...

• 34:12Speaker 01

  Instead of...

• 34:13Oprah Winfrey?

  Saying, "It's happened for them means it's possible that it can also happen for me."

• 34:18Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 34:19Oprah Winfrey?

  Yes.

• 34:19Speaker 01

  Yes. And the friends, by the way, that really upset you are super important. Because you can look at people that you admire.

• 34:27Oprah Winfrey?

  Yes.

• 34:27Speaker 01

  And you can look at people that have all these amazing things as you're manifesting. But a lot of the time, they don't galvanize this pain inside of you to actually do something about it. When it's a friend and you know there's no secret sauce or trust fund or anything that gave them a special advantage and they just work their tail off and you start getting upset about that, the reason why you're upset is you're not upset at your friend. You're upset at yourself. Because you gave up on yourself. And that anger is important because it is a signal from your body that, "I want that." See, I don't get jealous of things I don't want. Do you wanna know what jealousy is? Jealousy is your blocked desire and dreams.

• 35:10Speaker 01

  Jealousy rises up because somebody has something that is trapped in your soul. And you've been so busy giving your power away to stupid things and other people and managing all this stuff that's out of your control, that you're draining the time and energy that you could be using to slowly chip away at those things. Jealousy is like, knock, knock, knock, pay attention. You're supposed to have a house like this, dummy. Stop stressing about all this stuff that you shouldn't be worried about and remind yourself, it's time to get to work.

• 35:41Oprah Winfrey?

  Oh, so good. The Chapters on Relationships, so good. And oh, how I wish I had this book in my twenties. I'm getting this book for every single girl at my school. Every single girl. You are never too young to learn this lesson of let them. And on page 40, you say, the question is, I wish I'd had this. The question is, why do you want to be with someone who does this to you? And the answer, bing, bing, bing, you don't. Don't waste your energy chasing someone who's already left.

• 36:17Speaker 01

  The hardest thing about being a mom of, you know, 25, 23, 19, is, and even just kind of looking at people that write in, is your refusal to see somebody's behavior as the truth. Don't listen to what somebody says.

• 36:36Oprah Winfrey?

  Listen to what they show you.

• 36:37Speaker 01

  Correct. Behavior reveals who someone is and where you stand in their life.

• 36:44Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah, that's why Maya Angelou always said, that's my favorite lesson, you know that one. When people show you who they are, believe them the first time. Because they always show you.

• 36:53Speaker 01

  Yes, but here's the mistake that I made forever. And here's the mistake we all make. Instead of being in a relationship with the reality,

• 37:02Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 37:03Speaker 01

  you are up in your head explaining away behavior, which means you are in a fantasy. You know, if you are fooling around with somebody and they slink out like a cat in the morning, and you're then convincing yourself that they care about you, they're not the problem, you are. Because you refuse to see the behavior as what it is, which is, they don't care about you. They're not interested in a commitment.

• 37:29Oprah Winfrey?

  And you cannot admit that to yourself.

• 37:30Speaker 01

  Correct. And the more time you spend with somebody who has no interest in what you want in life, the more you are keeping yourself in a prison and robbing you from creating what you actually deserve.

• 37:45Oprah Winfrey?

  Okay, so how do you differentiate between letting them? They're not giving you the intention that you feel that you deserve, so let them. They're not giving you what you want, so let them. How do you distinguish between that and I now need to move on to don't waste your energy chasing someone who's already left?

• 38:05Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 38:06Oprah Winfrey?

  Because in essence, that person's already gone. They're not giving you what you want. How do you know the difference?

• 38:11Speaker 01

  In terms of who's worth fighting for?

• 38:13Oprah Winfrey?

  Yes.

• 38:14Speaker 01

  Well, you get to choose, Oprah.

• 38:17Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 38:17Speaker 01

  You get to choose. Because if, like, if we're talking about a breakup, right? We're talking about that somebody has said, "I don't love you," and they've left, right? The relationship is over.

• 38:27Oprah Winfrey?

  Or they are showing you through their behavior that the relationship is over.

• 38:31Speaker 01

  Oh, yes, because it's true.

• 38:32Oprah Winfrey?

  They may not have said the words, but they have quit.

• 38:35Speaker 01

  Yes, so you have to keep going, "Let them. Let them walk out the door. Let them treat me in a way that is actually not that attractive. It's kind of a turn-off. Let them confuse me." Because there actually isn't anything confusing about people's behavior. It's your inability to accept it at face value that is confusing you.

• 38:55Oprah Winfrey?

  Ah, I love this so much.

• 38:57Speaker 01

  Then you say, "Let me, let me," because you always get to choose. If this is your biggest hopes and dreams, to be with somebody that gaslights you and doesn't make you a priority, then choose it. And the only way that you know that you can powerfully choose it is if you can stop complaining about it.

• 39:14Oprah Winfrey?

  Hmm.

• 39:15Speaker 01

  And so, keep coming back to the "let me" part. Let me remind myself that I can always think whatever I want about this.

• 39:25Speaker 01

  And let me remind myself that I can stay, I can leave. I can decide what I put time into, I can decide what I don't put time into.

• 39:36Oprah Winfrey?

  There's so many gems in this book, I just, I don't even know what to tell you all. You just need to get the book, you need to get the audiobook and start underlining for yourself and keep it by your bedside table is what I would say. On page 104, you say, "People can only meet you as deeply as they meet themselves." "Most people haven't gone to therapy and they haven't looked at their issues and they don't want to, but the fact is, most human beings, you say, have never done the work to understand themselves. And so, they can't begin to be what you need them to be because they haven't been able to do it for themselves." And a therapist shared this with you.

• 40:15Speaker 01

  Yes, so my therapist is the smartest woman I've ever met, Ann Daven. And she said, "Mel, most adults are just eight-year-olds in big bodies."

• 40:28Oprah Winfrey?

  I believe that is true.

• 40:29Speaker 01

  And the reason why that's true is being able to act like a mature adult and manage your emotions and express yourself in a responsible way, it's a skill and you have to learn it. And if you are not surrounded by adults that knew how to do that, then you have not been taught how to do that.

• 40:47Oprah Winfrey?

  I know there are many people listening to us right now. You're in working situations where you are around people who are behaving like they are in middle school still and they're grown-ups and they're coming to work in their suits and things every day and are still, because most people are still emotionally there.

• 41:04Speaker 01

  And here's what I love about this, because I have a deep concern, as I know you do, of the rise in estrangement. I have a deep concern about the labeling of behavior and the labeling of people and the rise of what I see of very immature behavior of just ghosting or cutting people out without even an explanation. And what I love about the let them theory is that this is not a license to just cut off communication and shrug your shoulders and go, "Let them." It's not supposed to make you lonely. And it's also not, because I get a lot of pushback from people going, "Well, I'm just supposed to let them be rude? I'm just supposed to let them do this and let... I'm gonna be a doormat?" No. Right now, you are a doormat. Because you're tolerating the behavior.

• 41:48Speaker 01

  This isn't about tolerating any kind of abuse or any kind of awful behavior. This is about seeing it for what it is. This is about saying, "Let them. Let them be who they are. And let me see this with very clear eyes, because I know there is no way I can change who this person is. And if somebody is treating you poorly, they're already doing it. And when you say "let them", you, for the first time, see with clear eyes exactly who you're dealing with. And then you gotta say the "let me" part. Because if you recognize you're never gonna change this person.

• 42:23Oprah Winfrey?

  So saying "let them" allows you to stop lying to yourself?

• 42:26Speaker 01

  Yes. Yes, and the eight-year-old in a big body creates something very important. Because a lot of us have family members that have very challenging behaviors. And we still...

• 42:39Oprah Winfrey?

  That's a good way of putting it.

• 42:40Speaker 01

  Yes, well, you know, I think family teaches you how to love people you hate sometimes, right? And "let them" is gonna create space. It creates space for people to be who they are. And it creates space for you to decide how much time and energy you wanna pour into people who may be very emotionally mature. And what I find is that when I view somebody, for example, that might have a very narcissistic personality style, always about them, they fly off the handle, it's very draining to be around them, I'm not scared of them anymore. Because they don't affect me. And I get to choose how I show up. I get to say, "I know exactly who this person is,

• 43:25Speaker 01

  and I'm just gonna let them be. I'm not gonna have any expectation it's gonna be any different. But I'm gonna remind myself, let me remind myself, it's my energy that matters."

• 43:34Oprah Winfrey?

  You know, this book is so important, and I say that, understanding like what it takes to live a life that's fulfilled and on purpose and given in service. It's so important for where we are now in our culture. I think that... For whatever reason, you've been given this this moment in time to speak to people in this way is going to change so many lives. And I'm wondering how that sits with you, what kind of space this kind of power in this moment holds for you.

• 44:18Speaker 01

  Thank you for that question. I actually feel like an instrument for consciousness, for compassion, for people to truly stop making other people a problem. Like, you're on the planet right now with eight billion human beings, and we're all going through this thing together. And there is such a rise in judgment and bigotry and hate and isolation because we're making other people a problem. We're allowing them to stress us out. We're giving power to their opinions. We're tolerating emotional

• 45:02Speaker 01

  immaturity with judgment instead of understanding and just having better boundaries. We're paralyzing ourselves because of other people's success. We're trying to change people instead of learning to love and accept them as they are. And you don't have to live like that. Your life can be so much more peaceful. You have so much more power and time and energy. And when you stop living your life as if you're against everybody, or you know better, or you just create this incredible peace within yourself.

• 45:37Oprah Winfrey?

  Why do you think this all came together in this moment in time for you? I mean, you've been working at it a long time, and you've made mistakes. And you start the book talking about being $800,000 in debt, which, for most people, I'm like, how do you ever overcome that? And so, why, when you sit with your husband and you talk about, why now? Why this moment now? What is the answer to that? What happened?

• 46:04Speaker 01

  I believe that this is divinely ordered.

• 46:08Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 46:09Speaker 01

  I do. And I often think about,

• 46:14Speaker 01

  you know, if you're standing in this moment,

• 46:18Speaker 01

  you can look backwards, Oprah. And everything that has happened to you makes sense. And you can see the path and the turns and the hardships and the lessons and the things you regret and the things that you learn from. And everything has led you to this moment. I think it's a superpower to stand in the present moment and actually believe that this moment is leading you somewhere extraordinary. You just don't know when or where it's gonna happen. And so in moments where I have been deeply afraid or paralyzed with fear or engaging in my own really immature and hurtful behavior,

• 47:02Speaker 01

  whether it's in friendship or my marriage or screwing up with my kids.

• 47:06Oprah Winfrey?

  Kids, yeah.

• 47:06Speaker 01

  Because I just didn't know. And that's kind of, that drives a lot of my work. That I didn't know that I had dyslexia and ADHD. I didn't know that that was the source of so many of my struggles and why I had such terrible anxiety. I didn't know that you could literally say, "Let them" and have instant peace. I, everything that has been a problem in my life, I just didn't know the problem that I was dealing with. And if you actually don't know what the problem is, how the hell are you gonna solve it?

• 47:40Oprah Winfrey?

  Right.

• 47:42Speaker 01

  And so I often think about, how many people out there just don't know that they're pushing against the wrong thing, but the real root of the issue is something so simple.

• 47:56Speaker 01

  And so for me, when I've been in those moments that I just am like, why am I doing this? And is it ever going to change? And where is this leading? And will I ever, ever meet Oprah Winfrey? One of these days? No, I mean it. Like, I, I, I kept saying to myself.

• 48:15Oprah Winfrey?

  Really?

• 48:16Speaker 01

  I kept saying to myself, you're not meant to be there yet. And you have to stand in this moment. Because I believe that success comes down to one thing. Being willing to get out of bed on the days that you don't feel like it.

• 48:28Oprah Winfrey?

  That's right.

• 48:29Speaker 01

  And putting one foot in front of the other. And slowly chipping away at the things that you care about. And trying to be a little bit better of a person. And if you can do that, and if you can be kind to other people, and if you can give up your timeline, and you can just keep reminding yourself in those dark days that your job is not to give up. Your job is to glow. And the way that you do that, Oprah, is you say, I know that this moment is leading me somewhere. I do. And when you believe that, you keep going.

• 49:04Oprah Winfrey?

  I wish for you the greatest success. I hope this book stays on the bestseller list. I hope it, it never goes off. I really do. It's a game changer. But it's, it's not just a game changer. It's a life changer. It's a life enhancement. I think when people read the book, you're going to want to share it with other people. There's so, so, so much more that we didn't get to in this conversation. The Let Them Theory is on sale December 24th. Wow. Give it to yourself as the gift for 2025. You can also preorder it now. Buy one for yourself. I'm telling you, don't just buy one. You need to buy at least two or three. Do not just buy one. Because you're going to be reading it, and you're going to want to give it to somebody else. And then you're going to mark up your book,

• 49:48Oprah Winfrey?

  and you're not going to want to give them your book. So you need to get more than one. I'm telling you, it's a perfect gift for the new year. Make it your personal goal to let them. And of course, Mel is also the host of the wildly popular Mel Robbins podcast. Thank you, everybody, for listening. Congratulations on this.

• 50:06Speaker 01

  Thank you. I love you.

• 50:08Oprah Winfrey?

  I love YouTube. You can subscribe to the Oprah Podcast on YouTube and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. I'll see you next week. Thanks, everybody.