Pod Insights Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard Susie Wolff (Managing Director of F1 Academy) About this episode Susie Wolff (Driven, F1 Academy, and Williams Formula One) is a former professional racing driver, and managing director of F1 Academy. Susie joins Armchair Expert to discuss her motorsport-obsessed childhood in Scotland, her grandfather's career as a daredevil motocross rider, and discovering karting as the only girl on the track. Susie and Dax talk about racing against Lewis Hamilton as a kid, the physical toll of driving an F1 car, and building F1 Academy from a financially unworkable idea into a fully-backed series for female drivers. Susie explains why performance is the purest validation, how femininity stopped feeling like weakness, and why writing a letter to her younger self was the most emotional part of writing her memoir.
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Transcript 28,704 words · 6 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Dax Shepard? Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert, experts on expert. I'm Dan Shepard. I'm joined by Lily Padman.
0:05 Speaker 01 Hello.
0:05 Dax Shepard? We got a fox in today, but her name is Wolf.
0:09 Speaker 01 Oh, good job.
0:11 Dax Shepard? Yeah, Suzie Wolf.
0:14 Speaker 01 Oh.
0:14 Dax Shepard? Oh, we love her.
0:15 Speaker 01 She's so incredible. We love her.
0:18 Dax Shepard? So cool.
0:18 Speaker 01 She's so incredible. Coolest person.
0:22 Dax Shepard? On earth?
0:23 Speaker 01 Yeah.
0:23 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
0:24 Speaker 01 I felt really lame. I said it.
0:26 Dax Shepard? Yeah, well, I did too.
0:28 Speaker 01 It's hard not to feel lame.
0:29 Dax Shepard? She makes me feel lame.
0:30 Speaker 01 But she is also so sweet and nice and kind and inclusive.
0:34 Dax Shepard? But her gift is to make you feel lame.
0:36 Speaker 01 Yeah.
0:36 Dax Shepard? Yeah, yeah, that's her gift. Suzie is a former professional racing driver and current managing director of F1 Academy. She's also one of, I think, either the only one or maybe one of two women to ever drive an F1 car on a track on a race weekend.
0:49 Speaker 01 Incredible.
0:50 Dax Shepard? And if people remember the Total Wolf interview, that is her husband, and he said, she's a half second faster no matter what he does. When he cheats, he uses different tires, puts weight in her car, he can't get anywhere close to her. She has a new memoir out.
1:05 Speaker 01 Mm-hmm.
1:06 Dax Shepard? Called Driven, very appropriate title. Please check that out. Suzie Wolf is a blessing on planet earth. Enjoy. We get support from Quince.
1:16 Speaker 01 I have to say, I am so ready for fall. I want sweaters. I've been craving a true crisp morning where I actually need a jacket. I can't wait.
1:25 Dax Shepard? I'm fully there. The second it dips below 70, I'm like, this is my season. Give me the layers, give me the boots, give me a reason to wear something other than a t-shirt. And honestly, that's why I love Quince, because fall is when your wardrobe actually has to show up. And everything at Quince is 50 to 80% less than similar brands. We're talking 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters, starting at $60.
1:47 Speaker 01 $60. $60 for cashmere that you'd expect from a luxury brand without the luxury price tag. It's amazing. Gets me every time. It really shouldn't be real, but it is because they go straight to the factories, they skip the middlemen, and they just hand you the savings. The stuff isn't trendy. It's the kind of pieces you grab over and over because they work every time.
2:05 Dax Shepard? The 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters for me are it. When I look at Steve McQueen, This man owned a couple of sweaters he wore all the time and he looks iconic.
2:14 Speaker 01 It's a uniform.
2:15 Dax Shepard? Mm hmm.
2:16 Speaker 01 And Quince isn't just about the clothes. They have hotel quality bedding, cookware, bath essentials, thoughtfully designed furniture. You can really go there and outfit your entire apartment or house. So if you're in need of any kind of fall refresh at home, too, same quality, same attention to detail for every corner of your life.
2:33 Dax Shepard? Find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was Armchair Expert. It's the best way to support the show. We get support from AG1. Fall is that time when your body and mind are getting ready for the winter. You're settling in, bracing for the cold. Your body's already running a deficit from the shorter days and broken sleep patterns. You don't want a nutrient deficit stacked on top of that too.
3:09 Speaker 01 That's where your AG1 routine earns its spot. It's not fixing your sleep or your alarm time. It's giving your body what it needs so the dark mornings don't tank you before you even start. One scoop cold water every morning before anything else.
3:22 Dax Shepard? AG1 Next Gen has 75 plus ingredients, vitamins, minerals, pre and probiotics, superfoods, backed by four separate gold standard clinical trials. Key nutrient levels improved with three months of consistent use.
3:36 Speaker 01 That's the part people miss. It's not a one day fix. It's what happens when you stay consistent.
3:40 Dax Shepard? It's an easy, everyday thing. I've added it to my morning routine and I'm going to tell you, I actually love the taste of it. It's like Pavlovian. I drink it and I know I'm going to get that little vitamin buzz.
3:50 Speaker 01 Well, that's also the thing. When you do it first thing in the morning, you already feel kind of self-esteem because you're like, I already did something good for myself.
3:57 Dax Shepard? Yes. Go to drinkag1.com/dax and for a limited time, get a free immunity bundle, including a bottle of omega-3 fish oil and a bottle of vitamin D3K2 with your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro. That's drinkag1.com/dax. And after checkout, be sure to let them know that Armchair Expert sent you.
4:40 Dax Shepard? You ever fucked with a Topo Chico though? This one bites hard.
4:43 Speaker 02 How sweet does it bite?
4:44 Dax Shepard? Lot of carbonation.
4:46 Speaker 01 It's good, it's good. It's very good.
4:49 Dax Shepard? And...
4:50 Speaker 02 I didn't know they had different...
4:51 Dax Shepard? And there's a shortage. This is only gaining value as we sit here.
4:55 Speaker 02 Well, now I feel really bad that I'm taking...
4:57 Dax Shepard? Oh, no, no.
4:57 Speaker 01 No, you must take it, you must take it.
4:59 Dax Shepard? If I only had one, I would want you to have it.
5:00 Speaker 01 That's right. No, it's a whole world sparkling water, like the size of the bubbles and the volume of the bubbles.
5:07 Speaker 02 Well, Toto only has sparkling water because he has this theory that he doesn't need to get up for the toilet in the night if he drinks sparkling water.
5:14 Dax Shepard? Only sparkling?
5:15 Speaker 02 I'm not convinced.
5:16 Speaker 01 Okay, yeah.
5:17 Dax Shepard? How successful is this technique? He's still up, right?
5:20 Speaker 02 He's still up.
5:21 Speaker 01 He's still up, he's still up.
5:22 Dax Shepard? He and I are both old men.
5:24 Speaker 02 I think it's an age thing, but I'm not gonna tell him that. I'm just like, you just keep drinking that sparkling water.
5:28 Speaker 01 He's just gonna hear it on the pod.
5:28 Dax Shepard? I will tell him, I will tell him.
5:31 Speaker 02 But it was so funny because I flew in last night and he's like, "Oh, where are you going?" I said, "Have that," and Monica's like, "I've been there." And I'm like, "Yeah, I know." He's like, "You're gonna really enjoy it." I'm like, "Oh, that's so nice."
5:41 Dax Shepard? I think you called him while we were interviewing him.
5:44 Speaker 02 We have this bypass where we can always reach each other.
5:46 Speaker 01 I know.
5:47 Speaker 02 Which can be embarrassing.
5:49 Dax Shepard? No, I've adopted it since that interview. I didn't know that was an option. Because in general, phones are just off, right? It's so annoying. Who can break through to you? Toto?
5:59 Speaker 02 That's it.
6:00 Dax Shepard? Okay, Jack doesn't have a phone yet.
6:02 Speaker 02 No, he doesn't have a phone yet, but it's a good point because I should put my mom on it because she's on duty this week.
6:06 Dax Shepard? Okay, let's pop her on there.
6:08 Speaker 02 Sometimes Jack grabs her phone and he calls me to ask me trivial things like, "Do I really need to have a bath tonight?"
6:13 Speaker 01 Yeah.
6:14 Speaker 02 I'm like, "Yes, Jack, just do whatever your grandmother says."
6:17 Speaker 01 Oh, my God.
6:18 Dax Shepard? But also, he doesn't need a bath. The older they get, he does.
6:23 Speaker 01 He might be stinky, Dad.
6:24 Speaker 02 And there's nothing worse than smelly boys.
6:26 Speaker 01 I know, and they need to learn early, they don't wanna stink.
6:30 Speaker 02 Exactly, hygiene, there's nothing worse than smelly boys.
6:33 Speaker 01 I'm with you, I'm with you.
6:34 Dax Shepard? Now I'm paranoid that I smelled when I gave you a hug when you walked in.
6:36 Speaker 02 You didn't, don't worry.
6:37 Dax Shepard? But I have girls, so maybe I've been misled. Because we were bathing them every single night. More is the routine to get them sleepy. And at some point, we're like, they're not getting dirty enough to justify a bath. Now it's pretty, you know.
6:51 Speaker 01 No, now they bathe, right?
6:53 Dax Shepard? They do, but not every day.
6:54 Speaker 01 We need to get, I think, because we're getting into some hormone time.
6:57 Dax Shepard? Well, yeah, yeah, now it's probably time to pick up the.
7:00 Speaker 01 It's time, yeah.
7:01 Speaker 02 But I think they'll come to the realization on their own.
7:03 Speaker 01 Of course.
7:03 Dax Shepard? What was standard in Scotland? You were bathing every night? There's no way, right?
7:08 Speaker 02 What happens is Scotland is not really relatable to the rest of Europe.
7:11 Dax Shepard? Yeah, what's the vibe in Scotland in the eighties as a little person?
7:15 Speaker 02 The vibe was, we were discussing recently memories of your birthday parties when you're younger. My memory is my dad bringing in an ATV, like a four-wheel terrain vehicle, home with a trailer, nine, 10 kids on the back of the trailer, hanging on for dear life, and him going through huge mud on this mountain behind the house, a big hill. And I was going faster, more mud. And then we got home and he just sprayed us all down, him and my mom, with water. It was a really outdoorsy life.
7:46 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
7:47 Speaker 02 It was, if I look back now, a brilliant, brilliant childhood. None of the pressures of like city or expectations. It was just so wholesome.
7:56 Dax Shepard? It's a little town on the western edge of Scotland on the water, right? It's a tourist town.
8:02 Speaker 02 Well, it was where everyone took the ferry to all of kind of the Outer Hebrides. So it was more like a hub where people would arrive.
8:09 Dax Shepard? Did you say Hebrides?
8:11 Speaker 02 Outer Hebrides.
8:12 Dax Shepard? Yeah, what are Hebrides? Outer Hebrides. Oh, islands, okay.
8:16 Speaker 02 Like there are all these islands.
8:19 Speaker 02 I thought it was my accent at first.
8:21 Dax Shepard? Who knows? I mean, some will be new words, some will be accents.
8:25 Speaker 02 Well, the Hebrides are like a whole area of Scotland off the west coast.
8:28 Dax Shepard? Okay.
8:29 Speaker 02 And you took the ferry from Oban.
8:31 Dax Shepard? Would there be transient boyfriends? Like a new boy comes into town in the summer, he's with his family, they're on vacation, you fall in love, they have to return home?
8:42 Speaker 02 What kind of girl do you think I am that there was a transient boyfriend?
8:46 Dax Shepard? One that's driven, focused, aggressive, determined, the kind that could snag any kind of boyfriend she wanted?
8:54 Speaker 02 Not at that age.
8:54 Dax Shepard? Not at that age.
8:55 Speaker 02 I was completely uninterested in boys.
8:58 Dax Shepard? You were.
8:59 Speaker 02 And my dad, I remember so distinctly when I was younger, around the age of 12. And my brother was only fifteen months older. And he said something about a girl in his class. And then my dad looked at me and said, "You are way too young to have a boyfriend." And I was like, "Yeah, you're right. I'm way too young to have a boyfriend." And then there was this moment in my childhood that this person will never know what an effect they had. Because one of my dad's good friends who owned a pub, his name was Mario. And he said a throwaway comment to me, and I must have been like thirteen or fourteen. He said, "You'll be pregnant by the time you're sixteen and working in your dad's shop."
9:30 Speaker 01 What? Also, that is a crazy thing to say to a young girl.
9:35 Speaker 02 Maybe he did it as like a reverse engineering. I was like, "Absolutely not." So then it was like, "Stay away from boys."
9:42 Dax Shepard? OK, you have kind of my dream childhood. Not even kind of. You have my total dream childhood in that your father owned a motorcycle dealership. Let's start with grandpa. It probably starts with your maternal grandfather, yeah? Being into motorcycles and whatnot?
9:57 Speaker 02 So my mother's father was a works motocross rider in the 1950s.
10:02 Dax Shepard? Look at this.
10:03 Speaker 01 Wow.
10:04 Speaker 02 Yeah, and he was an English daredevil. Anything he did, he was really good at.
10:08 Dax Shepard? Did he ride trials bikes?
10:10 Speaker 02 Yes.
10:10 Dax Shepard? And he was sponsored by BSA?
10:11 Speaker 02 Yes, he was a BSA works rider, which in his day was like...
10:15 Dax Shepard? He's a god!
10:15 Speaker 01 But what for, you know, I have to do this for people who don't know what that is.
10:19 Dax Shepard? Triumph, BSA, this is one of the like historic motorcycle brands.
10:21 Speaker 01 OK, great, OK.
10:22 Speaker 02 And he had a shop also in England that kind of sold the bikes. And when the Japanese bikes started to arrive and kind of took over the market, he realized it wouldn't be a proper, sustainable business.
10:32 Dax Shepard? They couldn't really compete with the influx of jet. And he didn't adopt selling them?
10:36 Speaker 02 No, because he's a staunch...
10:39 Speaker 01 Loyal.
10:39 Speaker 02 Yeah, nationalist and loyalist.
10:42 Dax Shepard? Now, his motorcycle shop was in Scotland? No, he moved there to open that.
10:47 Speaker 02 He moved to Scotland to do diving. He was changing completely his career.
10:52 Speaker 01 Diving into water?
10:54 Speaker 02 Yeah, he was a commercial diver.
10:56 Speaker 01 Whoa.
10:56 Dax Shepard? Was he welding underwater? No.
10:58 Speaker 02 No, I think he was more like in the west coast of Scotland, there's a real industry there to go and collect propellers which had fallen off.
11:06 Dax Shepard? OK.
11:06 Speaker 02 Or because there were so many boats and ferries and stuff like that. But then I don't really know much about that period because of course he got the bends and became paralyzed.
11:16 Dax Shepard? So yeah, he lost the use of his legs, yeah?
11:19 Speaker 02 He'd done a dive when he hadn't been feeling well and came up too quickly. And he tells the story of them dragging him onto the boat. Now, bearing in mind, he's a super athletic guy, very, very sporty. And he remembers lying and his leg was falling off the edge of the bed. And he said, there was a moment where I realized I couldn't bring my leg back up.
11:42 Dax Shepard? Oh, my God. Well, that's panic inducing.
11:44 Speaker 02 And he said, that's when I realized this is not good. So I've only ever known him in a wheelchair, but you shouldn't think that that stopped him. I mean, I never once heard him complaining. He did paragliding as he got older, he opened a car, and so he very much pivoted around.
12:00 Dax Shepard? He even had crash landings in his paraglider.
12:03 Speaker 02 Broke his ankle.
12:04 Dax Shepard? Yes.
12:04 Speaker 02 My poor grandmother.
12:05 Speaker 01 I guess it doesn't matter.
12:07 Speaker 02 But just to add in there, my grandmother never got a carer.
12:10 Speaker 01 Wow.
12:10 Speaker 02 She looked after him all on her own and dedicated herself, which if I look back now with the perspective I have with age and obviously becoming a wife and a mother, incredible.
12:22 Speaker 01 Yes.
12:22 Speaker 02 Really incredible.
12:23 Speaker 01 Wow.
12:24 Dax Shepard? So the results of having that risk taker of a grandfather is that your mother herself was also quite a risky young woman, yeah? And she rode motorcycles from what age on?
12:36 Speaker 02 Well, my uncle kind of took after my grandfather. Did trials biking, nearly won the Scottish Sixties Trials and was very talented also on a bike. But when the accident happened, it was difficult for them because suddenly the whole family dynamic changed. I think my mom lost quite a lot of confidence because suddenly this father figure who so many people looked up to at that time came back home a different man in a way and relied so much on my grandmother. So she lost a couple of years of her teenage years to that whole dynamic changing. And I think when she was 16, my grandfather said to her, "Go down and see John Stoddart and get yourself a bike." And she loved speed and she is very much, you know, get up and go like my grandfather.
13:21 Speaker 02 And that, of course, is where she met my dad in the bike shop.
13:24 Speaker 01 Oh, wow, this is such a great story.
13:27 Speaker 02 Love story.
13:28 Speaker 01 I love this. Me, too.
13:30 Speaker 02 I just wouldn't be who I am today without my mom. Because you say role models, but she set the foundation, you know, she had her own business, she raced bikes. It was such an equal marriage between the two of them and she had as much get up and go as my dad. It absolutely shaped who I am.
13:45 Dax Shepard? Yeah. So she was into motorcycles. They meet and fall in love. What's the age gap? She was 16 when she went to buy a motorcycle?
13:52 Speaker 02 And now you're testing me.
13:53 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
13:53 Speaker 02 I'm not making them look bad here. Well, she got her first, so you have to be 17 to drive a motorbike in Scotland. So she was maybe 16, turning 17. So maybe she went at 16 to get ready to buy the bike for when she was 17. She was dating someone else, one of my dad's friends.
14:06 Dax Shepard? Oh, scandalous, small town.
14:09 Speaker 02 Was not treating her well.
14:10 Speaker 01 Oh.
14:11 Speaker 02 And it was a really good friend of his. They went on bike tours together, everything. And then it became clear that my mom and dad were better suited.
14:18 Dax Shepard? Simmering.
14:19 Speaker 02 Simmering.
14:19 Dax Shepard? Yeah, yeah.
14:20 Speaker 02 Yeah. And then I think, actually quite similar to me, I think it was my mom was the first one to say, actually, John.
14:27 Speaker 01 I'm interested.
14:27 Dax Shepard? I'm going in this direction.
14:28 Speaker 02 I think you and I fit.
14:29 Speaker 01 Yeah.
14:30 Dax Shepard? Okay, so yes, they fall in love, they get married, and then father's running a motorcycle shop. But he's selling everything presumably, because you're getting quads and jet skis.
14:39 Speaker 02 Yeah, and outboards for the fisheries and the fishermen. And basically, in a small town, you know what it's like. You sell whatever anyone needs.
14:47 Dax Shepard? Yeah, right.
14:48 Speaker 02 So it was motorbikes. In the summer, a lot of motorbikes would tour through, do the whisky tour up through Scotland, because it's beautiful scenery. But then the altering vehicles for all the farms.
14:56 Dax Shepard? But so basically, you had access to every single thing I wanted as a kid. Your first bike's a PW50, yeah?
15:03 Speaker 02 Yeah.
15:04 Dax Shepard? How old were you when you got that?
15:05 Speaker 02 Well, no, my very first was a little three wheeler, a Yamaha three wheeler. And then PW50, I must have been five?
15:12 Dax Shepard? Yes.
15:13 Speaker 02 Five or six.
15:14 Dax Shepard? This is when my daughter got her first PW50.
15:16 Speaker 02 Love it.
15:16 Dax Shepard? Yes, yes, yes.
15:17 Speaker 02 And then PW80. Loved that PW80.
15:20 Dax Shepard? Sure, sure. Now you're shifting gears with the clutch.
15:22 Speaker 02 No, that's not a T100. The PW80 doesn't have a clutch, no.
15:25 Dax Shepard? Oh, okay. Here are the 80s all had clutches.
15:27 Speaker 02 No. And I remember the first time I tried with the clutch. I was just like, oh.
15:32 Speaker 02 Took me a while to get used to.
15:33 Dax Shepard? It's a humbling experience, the first.
15:36 Speaker 01 Dear brothers and sisters?
15:37 Dax Shepard? The older brother.
15:38 Speaker 02 Yeah, 15 months older than me.
15:40 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah.
15:40 Dax Shepard? Yeah, so I would imagine it's kind of a perfect storm for you, because similarly, I have a little sister. And I think if you have a little sister and she likes you, she's just gonna trend a little bit more into, I don't know, conventionally boy stuff. What do you think about that?
15:57 Speaker 02 I think so, and I think it was also my character, like, well, anything he can do, I can do. I was very competitive.
16:03 Speaker 01 Yeah.
16:04 Speaker 02 And he was a wonderful brother, he still is a wonderful brother. So he kind of took me under his wing. There wasn't a huge rivalry of, you know, I don't want her around if he went on his motorbike. He was on his RT100, I was on my PB80.
16:14 Speaker 01 Oh.
16:14 Speaker 02 He was in the PB80, I was on the PB50. It was always that we were together.
16:17 Dax Shepard? He was probably proud of you. It's cool to have a little sister who rides.
16:21 Speaker 02 I'm sure he'd go as far as to say that he was proud.
16:23 Dax Shepard? That's too much.
16:23 Speaker 02 But we definitely did a lot of things. And my parents never really differentiated between son and daughter. It wasn't like I ever had the feeling that I shouldn't be on a bike or that I was doing anything unusual for a girl. It was very much if you want to do it, you do. And if you don't, you don't. There was no real pressure or feeling that I was doing something unusual for a girl.
16:40 Dax Shepard? We do have to take one second to worship your father because for people who aren't super into motorsports, the craziest form of racing is definitely MotoGP. It makes the F1 drivers look cowardly. So that should start there. And then the scariest thing in the motorcycle world by far is the Isle of Man TT. And for people that don't know, they're racing on a public road on the circumference of an island. What is it, like an 80 mile, 90 mile loop? Every single year, someone dies, pretty much without exception. It is the most dangerous motorsport imaginable. And your father raced in the Isle of Man.
17:13 Speaker 02 And lost his best friend there.
17:15 Dax Shepard? Lost his best friend, just standard.
17:17 Speaker 02 It's so funny you say that now. He literally is going there this week.
17:21 Dax Shepard? Oh, he is?
17:21 Speaker 02 Yeah, because it starts, I think, this weekend.
17:24 Dax Shepard? And he now goes and obviously spectates.
17:26 Speaker 02 He had a team for a while, but this year there's no team, he's just spectating. Have you ever been?
17:29 Dax Shepard? I haven't. I've been invited by Ducati and I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna go, but I know I'll ride on Saturday.
17:36 Speaker 02 You need to go.
17:37 Speaker 01 Wait, you're gonna ride in it?
17:38 Dax Shepard? On Saturday, the public can take a lap.
17:41 Speaker 02 Yeah, but you can take it easy there.
17:43 Dax Shepard? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
17:43 Speaker 02 You need to take it easy there.
17:45 Dax Shepard? That's my concern is how easy I'll be able to take it. But yes, I do want to do that very bad.
17:49 Speaker 02 I ended up taking Toto and... It was an incredible experience because you just cannot comprehend the speed and the bravery.
18:00 Dax Shepard? Oh.
18:00 Speaker 02 Until you get there.
18:01 Dax Shepard? The sides of much of the public road are cobblestone walls. So if you come off, you're going into a cobblestone wall. There is numerous.
18:11 Speaker 02 You're not into it at all, Monica?
18:12 Speaker 01 No, thanks, no.
18:13 Dax Shepard? Monica, there's numerous hills and dips where the people are at 195 getting air for like 130 feet and landing. It's full on. It is truly the most hair-raising, scariest motorsport in the world. Your dad did that. He's a warrior. I just want to worship him for one second. So I got to imagine if dad is doing that, it's hard to take anyone serious if anyone's saying like, be careful. Or maybe that wasn't even being said in your household?
18:40 Speaker 02 It wasn't being said, but it wasn't like we were kamikaze either. I guess there was a structure to it, that it wasn't just like, go on your bike and go flat out. We built a little track kind of in the hills behind where we lived. And of course we got the stopwatch out and it was who could go quicker. But we weren't kamikaze. Because there was an element where you always had to have your helmet on, you had to have your proper boots on. And you had a respect, you cleaned your bike when you came home, you put it properly away in the garage. So we weren't kamikaze, but we loved speed and we loved that life of being out and that feeling of, you know.
19:11 Dax Shepard? Yeah, adrenaline.
19:12 Speaker 01 Were you scared when your dad went to do this thing?
19:15 Speaker 02 I was too young to even realize. And actually my mom made him stop when he lost his best friend. And when we were young kids, because I think for her she's felt well, that's way too risky now that we've got two kids here.
19:27 Dax Shepard? They said like, okay, so daddy's going away to the most dangerous lethal race in the world this weekend.
19:33 Speaker 01 Well, yeah, but like.
19:35 Dax Shepard? They probably kind of hushed that part a little.
19:37 Speaker 02 There were pictures up on the wall, but I never really comprehended until I went. I never really comprehended what he did.
19:43 Dax Shepard? It's madness.
19:43 Speaker 02 Promise me you'll go.
19:44 Dax Shepard? Oh, yes, yes.
19:45 Speaker 02 Because you would really, really love it.
19:47 Dax Shepard? Okay, when do we get into a cart? Eight years old?
19:51 Speaker 02 Slightly before, because my dad had a bit of a midlife crisis and went back to racing road bikes for his 40th birthday, he got himself a bike. So we would spend a lot of time at Knock Hill, the only track in Scotland. But because we were not really that interested in just watching my dad, there was a kind of perimeter road to the track where we would be doing laps in our PWE 50s and PWE 80s, taking on RT 100s and what are called 125s. And there was a little kart track there. And I remember distinctly, it was five pounds for 15 minutes. Well, we hounded my parents for five and another five and another five. And then eventually, I think my mum said to my dad, listen, we come to these race weekends, it's all about you. I think it's time that the kids did something.
20:31 Dax Shepard? Yes.
20:32 Speaker 02 So we got a go-kart kind of around our eighth birthday.
20:35 Dax Shepard? A shared go-kart between you and David?
20:37 Speaker 02 No, because he was bigger than me. I mean, they were second hand. They were, I'll never forget, Swiss Hutless. It was red, it was quite rusty and peeling with pain, but I was so in love with this thing.
20:47 Dax Shepard? Yeah. And did you show more aptitude in that relative to David? Like, you had to be mildly competitive with your brother. And did this feel like something, shit, I might have the upper hand here?
20:59 Speaker 02 At that time, no. We would like be out in the hire carts, smashing lumps out of each other to see who could win. And then suddenly, when we got to our very first race, we were a bit like, oh, there's like 100 kids here.
21:14 Speaker 01 Yeah.
21:15 Speaker 02 And it wasn't any more me versus him, it was more like, this is big now, we've got a lot of competition.
21:20 Dax Shepard? Intense.
21:21 Speaker 02 And we never really had, well, no, that's not true. I was gonna say we never really had a big rivalry, but we did have one race where I should have won, he took me out on the last lap.
21:29 Dax Shepard? Okay.
21:30 Speaker 02 And we didn't speak for the whole way home.
21:31 Speaker 01 Oh, shit.
21:32 Speaker 02 And after that, my dad always made sure we were in different categories.
21:36 Speaker 01 Oh, smart.
21:37 Speaker 02 So we moved my brother up and I stayed and then we never raced each other again.
21:39 Dax Shepard? Your father had Serena and Venus on his team.
21:41 Speaker 01 Yeah. That was, that's smart.
21:45 Dax Shepard? So were you receiving instruction or were you just kind of learning as you went?
21:50 Speaker 02 I definitely wasn't a clear talent at the beginning. I mean, it was quite daunting being on a much bigger track and lots of other kids out there. I always tell the same story. I went out the first time and it was like scary. And I came into the pits and I said to my dad, I really don't like it out there. I mean, that's a lot.
22:06 Dax Shepard? A lot of chaos going on.
22:07 Speaker 02 A lot of chaos and they're kind of like getting hit as you were getting past and it was just.
22:10 Dax Shepard? Aggressive little boys.
22:11 Speaker 02 Yeah, lots of aggressive little boys.
22:13 Speaker 01 Yeah, you're the only girl there?
22:15 Speaker 02 I was, but I never realized I was.
22:18 Dax Shepard? You didn't clock that?
22:19 Speaker 02 No, because we're all wearing helmets. Nobody really spoke about me being a girl at that time. I was just Suzie and my dad said, well, we got two options now toots because his nickname for me was always toots. We put the cart back in the truck and we head home or you go back out there. You try and go quicker and when they hit you, you're gonna hit them back twice as hard. So me being the character I was, I was like, I'll go back out there. I will get faster. And then it was something that just became all consuming in a very good way.
22:42 Speaker 01 You're so cool.
22:43 Dax Shepard? Yeah, she's so cool.
22:44 Speaker 01 Oh my god, I feel so, so lame.
22:48 Dax Shepard? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
22:48 Speaker 01 I'm lame.
22:49 Speaker 02 You're not lame.
22:50 Dax Shepard? No, no, you're not lame.
22:51 Speaker 02 You're not lame.
22:52 Speaker 01 No, no, I am. I think it must be meant, like, how do you not have fear?
22:56 Dax Shepard? I'll let you answer.
22:57 Speaker 01 Both of you can answer.
22:59 Dax Shepard? It's funny enough, I'm watching it right now. So I went to our eldest daughter when she was about seven or eight. And at that point, she already rode dirt bikes. She had an off-road razor, like a vehicle.
23:10 Speaker 02 I love that you've given that opportunity.
23:13 Dax Shepard? Like a real immediate aptitude. And I said, hey, we could get carts, you and me. We have a tour bus. We could just start hitting races. I'm ready if you're up for it. And she was like, well, take me to the cart track and let me see if I like it. I take her to the cart track. She go, go to one of the juniors. It's all boys who've already done it a bunch of times. She does one session, she comes back and she's like, I don't like it. And I'm like, mm, mm, okay. Heartbroken. All I wanted as a kid was just someone to support me doing that. I now have the money to do that and she just was not interested. Fast forward to like maybe eight months ago. She's like, I want to go back to the cart track. Take her back. Now she's super into it. She's 13. It's too late for anything competitive. It's not?
23:53 Speaker 02 No.
23:54 Dax Shepard? Okay, well, that's encouraging.
23:55 Speaker 02 It's definitely not.
23:56 Dax Shepard? Point is, is what I got to observe, which was the most rewarding was in soccer, when she played soccer, she didn't have that like, I'm gonna kill this person for the ball. She didn't have that, which I could care less. But within three sessions at the track, when she started getting good and there were slow adults out there, I started noticing like, oh, she wants to kill these people to get by. That magic thing has just kind of happened. And yeah, you kind of either have that, one of us is going to the center of this turn and it's gonna be me.
24:23 Speaker 02 But you know what I'm doing now with F1 Academy? It's because of girls like your daughter. Because I'm pretty sure if that little girl at eight, at her first time at the kart track, had seen another little girl out there.
24:33 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
24:33 Speaker 02 It could have changed her whole experience of it. But because that first experience was daunting, like mine was daunting, but I had that older brother was like, well, she's doing, I'll figure it out.
24:42 Speaker 01 Yeah.
24:43 Speaker 02 And now she's 13, she's got a bit more confidence, she's a bit older.
24:46 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
24:47 Speaker 02 She asked to go back there.
24:48 Dax Shepard? Uh huh.
24:49 Speaker 02 It's in her.
24:50 Dax Shepard? Anyways, it's not about her.
24:51 Speaker 02 No, but this is so encouraging for me. Because that, I think, is the shift that's happening within motorsport now. Because before, it's always seen as this egoistical, macho, male-dominated world. It's changing. And it has to change because there's so many talented young drivers that are female like your daughter out there. They just need to be exposed to it because they've got that passion within them.
25:11 Dax Shepard? You were saying in a different interview I listened to you in, which I hadn't thought of this. There's only really three sports where the men and women are together and it's horse jumping.
25:19 Speaker 02 Riding or jumping, yeah.
25:20 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah.
25:21 Dax Shepard? Sailing and driving.
25:23 Speaker 01 Whoa.
25:23 Speaker 02 And all involve either a big piece of equipment or a big animal.
25:27 Speaker 01 Yeah, that's true. Weird.
25:30 Speaker 02 I definitely don't believe, and having been in the sport for as long as I have, that there's any reason why women can't compete at the very top. It just comes down to the talent pool and the kind of pipeline.
25:39 Dax Shepard? Well, let us, for the most skeptical audience member, what about someone who's like, well, what about just testosterone as a? Aggressive hormone that boys at 18 have an excessive amount of. Do you think there's any deficit for not having that?
25:56 Speaker 02 Listen, I would never claim to see a man and a woman or a young boy and a young girl are the same biologically. Clearly, we're all made up differently, but it also comes down to individuals.
26:05 Speaker 01 Exactly.
26:06 Speaker 02 And it's so funny you mention testosterone, because when I was racing, I won't say what age I was. I had a medical and I had high levels of testosterone. We were just never taking supplements or anything like that at that time. And immediately, the guys that did the kind of assessment said, oh, this is an outlier. You know, can we do some more tests and studies? Because I think this is maybe why you're a racing driver. And I went away and thought about overnight and came back the next day and said, no, I don't want me being singled out.
26:33 Dax Shepard? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
26:34 Speaker 02 And I don't think my results are the basis or should form what a female racing driver.
26:40 Speaker 01 Exactly.
26:41 Speaker 02 Because I think it comes much more down to characteristics of the individual. There are some girls who are really tough.
26:47 Dax Shepard? Also, they were chicken and egg-ing it. And I would argue your participation in it, your body starts reacting.
26:54 Speaker 02 And you're training.
26:54 Dax Shepard? We have tons of data on stockbrokers. When they make riskier trades or testosterone goes up, which begets more riskier trades. It's working in both directions.
27:02 Speaker 02 Yeah.
27:02 Dax Shepard? So, yeah, your body could have been like, oh, no, we're in a situation where we need more testosterone regularly.
27:08 Speaker 02 But I don't think that the aggression is something which can stop a woman not being successful in the sport. Because you can also argue that red mist and overaggression is a real negative.
27:18 Speaker 01 Exactly, yes.
27:20 Dax Shepard? Unless you're somehow Max Verstappen in your bullseye.
27:22 Speaker 02 You're on the edge.
27:23 Dax Shepard? Whatever that thing is, it's like, I'm willing to die.
27:25 Speaker 02 Did you watch the Nürburgring 24 hours?
27:26 Dax Shepard? Yes.
27:28 Speaker 02 Credible.
27:29 Dax Shepard? He's such a god. It's crazy.
27:31 Speaker 02 Yeah, it was impressive.
27:32 Dax Shepard? I know 13 is a pivotal moment, but between eight and 13, when you're starting to cart a lot and you're starting to race. Walk me through some of those challenges that you're slowly, I bet, it starts occurring to you. Oh, I'm the only girl here or one of very few.
27:45 Speaker 02 Not at that age. I wasn't your stereotypical tomboy. I loved pink. I played with Barbie. I asked for pink sideboards for my go-karts. I had a pink race suit.
27:54 Dax Shepard? Your father was using Barbies as leverage to get you to do things. He offered to buy you a very specific Barbie.
27:59 Speaker 02 The cowboy Barbie.
28:00 Dax Shepard? Cowboy Barbie.
28:01 Speaker 02 I still have her.
28:02 Speaker 01 Oh, so cute.
28:04 Speaker 02 And it was when I was 13, I was taken to watch a Formula Three race at Donnington. There's an English driver at that time called Jenson Button, who of course went on to be a world champion.
28:12 Dax Shepard? He's also fucking gorgeous. I just, sorry.
28:14 Speaker 02 I can't judge drivers as hot or not.
28:18 Dax Shepard? You can't?
28:19 Speaker 02 I always had this rule, I would never date another driver. And even now, when obviously there's a lot more interest in F1, and they're like, oh, he's hot. I'm like, is he?
28:26 Speaker 01 Yeah.
28:27 Dax Shepard? Suzie, Suzie, it is a stable of the cutest boys in the world.
28:30 Speaker 02 Really?
28:31 Speaker 01 Yeah.
28:31 Dax Shepard? It's asymmetric to any other sport, where it's like, why are they all, well, I kind of have a theory on why they're all so good looking. They're often the children of rich people.
28:39 Speaker 01 Right.
28:40 Dax Shepard? I mean, that's just a fact.
28:41 Speaker 02 No, not always.
28:42 Dax Shepard? Oh my God, let's go through the current grid.
28:44 Speaker 02 Lewis is not from.
28:45 Dax Shepard? Yeah, keep going.
28:46 Speaker 01 He's an exception.
28:47 Speaker 02 Kimi Antonelli is not from huge wealth.
28:50 Dax Shepard? Okay, you're right.
28:51 Speaker 02 George Russell is not from huge wealth.
28:53 Dax Shepard? Huge wealth? Okay, okay.
28:55 Speaker 02 No, no, no.
28:56 Dax Shepard? Okay, okay.
28:57 Speaker 02 I mean, his father sold his business recently, but he didn't have a lot of money. That's why he relied on junior program.
29:01 Dax Shepard? Lando's family's loaded.
29:03 Speaker 02 So you have one.
29:04 Dax Shepard? Charles, Charles' uncle, uncle who was supporting.
29:07 Speaker 02 His uncle helped, but he comes from a very humble background.
29:10 Speaker 01 Okay.
29:11 Dax Shepard? Yeah, okay.
29:12 Speaker 02 Yeah.
29:12 Speaker 01 But he's just so, he's a model.
29:15 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
29:15 Speaker 01 He is a model. Oh my God.
29:18 Dax Shepard? I wonder if this is a thing she plays for Toto, like she does it. I wonder if she has that.
29:23 Speaker 02 What I will say is his wife is beautiful.
29:24 Speaker 01 Yes, she is beautiful.
29:25 Speaker 02 Alexandra.
29:26 Speaker 01 They're a beautiful pair.
29:27 Speaker 02 Great couple.
29:28 Speaker 01 But Toto's so hot.
29:29 Dax Shepard? Oh, probably.
29:30 Speaker 02 Toto's definitely hot.
29:30 Speaker 01 Yeah.
29:31 Dax Shepard? He's the hottest. Okay, so back to F3. You saw an F3 race. Jenson Button, I interrupted you.
29:36 Speaker 02 Yeah. And that's when I think it all changed in my head, because suddenly what was just a hobby, I suddenly thought, oh, wait a minute, I can do this. And that environment, the car, I'll never forget the first time I walked into the garage, everything was so immaculate and precise and the engineers. And I just thought, this is where I want to be. And suddenly I was like, okay, I can be a racing driver. I can get some karting, move to single seaters and get to F3 and then maybe get to F1 and. Never once did I question why there was no woman in F1. I simply had David Coolhart on my wall because he was Scottish, Jacques Villeneuve because he was in the Williams. And at 18, we'd done the world championships. Lewis Hamilton was there, Nico Rosberg.
30:12 Dax Shepard? You also had Wayne Rainey on your wall?
30:13 Speaker 02 Wayne Rainey, Kevin Schwantz.
30:15 Dax Shepard? There we go.
30:15 Speaker 02 In the Kevin Schwantz fan club, loved him. With the yellow bandana. Oh, I loved him so much.
30:22 Dax Shepard? So, once you saw that and you got more focused on, okay, I want to do this as a career. Did you start taking your time, the weekends at the race, to start educating yourself? Like, I want you to explain to people what you had to learn about the mechanics of the car and the engineering of the car. Your job's not just to get in there and drive the car. You could do that. But the great drivers in history have been able to give really important feedback to their mechanics and their engineers to make the car faster. And if they don't have that vernacular, there's going to be only so much you can develop, the car or the cart. This is kind of a big component of it.
30:58 Speaker 02 It really is. And then when you get to European or world championship level, it comes down to the finest details, like what toe you're running, what camber, what sprocket. It's not like you need to sit down and really educate yourself. You live it. So, you're trying different things with your karts to get the small advantage, like different thicknesses of rear axle, tire pressures, how many, what do we call them again? Seat supports, because that changed the way.
31:19 Dax Shepard? Where your weight distribution was in the car.
31:21 Speaker 02 And I always had to carry extra weight, so we would move the weight around to see which was the optimum.
31:25 Dax Shepard? Which could have been nice, because you could put it on the weak inside wheel.
31:28 Speaker 02 We talk the same language.
31:29 Dax Shepard? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
31:30 Speaker 02 Yeah.
31:31 Dax Shepard? But some people don't. I want to give you credit. Some people don't take the time to do that.
31:35 Speaker 02 Sometimes it's exhausting. I'm a real perfectionist. So, I was the one that curated all the folders that had the setup sheets from every race, so that when we came back, I knew exactly where to start from, what we changed, my notes on each track. I loved, like, the color-coordinated folders and all the setup sheets.
31:52 Dax Shepard? I also want to introduce, when is juggling?
31:57 Dax Shepard? The pros and cons of being the only girl at these races. Because there's upside and downside and I want to explore what those tensions were.
32:05 Speaker 02 I think the only moment I really, because I'd grown up racing with Lewis and that generation.
32:10 Dax Shepard? Let's talk about that. So for a while you were in the Scottish league.
32:13 Speaker 02 Scottish, then British.
32:14 Dax Shepard? And you won driver of the year, 14 to that? No.
32:17 Speaker 02 Yeah, but that was only national.
32:19 Dax Shepard? But then you step up to the British karting.
32:21 Speaker 02 Yeah, I had a bit of success in the British karting, which allowed me to qualify then for the European Championships.
32:27 Dax Shepard? And where do you meet Lewis? At what rung of this?
32:29 Speaker 02 Very early on, like I think I was only nine. We'd gone down for our first British race and they were all talking about this little boy with the yellow helmet who was outstanding. And it was Lewis.
32:38 Speaker 01 How old was he?
32:40 Speaker 02 He would have been eight.
32:41 Dax Shepard? So you're a year older than him?
32:42 Speaker 02 I'm nearly two years older than him.
32:43 Speaker 01 A little boy with a yellow helmet.
32:46 Dax Shepard? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
32:46 Speaker 01 That's a really cute picture.
32:48 Dax Shepard? And did you race against him?
32:49 Speaker 02 In karting, we were at the age of kind of 14, we ended up in the same class because then became 14 to 16 year olds. So we weren't always direct competitors, but then became competitors towards the end. And then when he moved into single seaters, we were always nearly, but I was sometimes the category above.
33:05 Dax Shepard? Because you're a little older.
33:06 Speaker 02 Yeah, but there's the famous Formula Renault podium where I made P3, he won the race and I couldn't get my champagne open. And he was a lot more used to winning than I was, so he grabbed the bottle from me and opened the champagne for me and gave it back to me.
33:21 Speaker 01 Oh my goodness.
33:23 Speaker 02 If I go back to the world championships, I'd finished 15th overall, which was solid because it was over 130 people there. But I was called to the podium ceremony and when I was called, the morning, the team where I ran, there was like maybe 20 of us in the team. We were all like, why are you being called? I'm like, I hope I haven't had an issue with my kart or something or I'm disqualified from the race. And it was really weird that they were calling me over the tannoy. So I run over, the podium ceremony is happening and I'm called up on stage to receive an award for top female in the world.
33:54 Speaker 01 Oh my god.
33:56 Speaker 02 And I was like so embarrassed in front of my whole team. And my first thought was, I don't even remember seeing another girl.
34:02 Dax Shepard? Right.
34:02 Speaker 02 And it was actually, I think there was four of us.
34:04 Dax Shepard? What if you had won the best and worst female driver?
34:07 Speaker 01 I mean, seriously.
34:09 Dax Shepard? Slowest and fastest female.
34:10 Speaker 01 It feels like a pat on the head.
34:12 Speaker 02 And I think the organizers, they were probably just trying to be nice.
34:16 Speaker 01 Yeah, sure.
34:17 Speaker 02 But I think that was definitely the moment, and of course, everyone made jokes afterwards with the fact that, oh, you're great. You beat three other girls.
34:23 Speaker 01 Right.
34:24 Speaker 02 But it was the moment I definitely thought, oh, this is going to be different than I thought.
34:29 Dax Shepard? This is a thing.
34:30 Speaker 02 They see me as different. When I moved into single seaters, it became the topic. There was a girl trying to make it in racing.
34:36 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
34:39 Speaker 03 Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.
34:44 Dax Shepard? We are supported by Allstate. Checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance. Not checking what the warning light means before pulling out of your driveway. You absolutely convinced yourself it was probably just a sensor thing, right up until you were standing on the side of the road waiting for a tow. Yeah, checking first is the right move. So check Allstate first for an auto quote. It could save you hundreds. And for fast, reliable help when you need it, add an Allstate roadside plan today. You're in good hands with Allstate. Potential savings vary. Insurance and roadside assistance plans are subject to terms, conditions, and availability. Insurance provided by Allstate North American Insurance Company, Northbrook, Illinois. Roadside assistance plans provided by Allstate Motor Club, Incorporated and Allstate affiliate.
35:29 Dax Shepard? Thank you to our presenting sponsor, HP, for supporting this episode. Their HP Smart Tank printer is the last printer you'll ever need. Oh, here we go, Monica. With a refillable ink tank and up to three years of ink included. So you get thousands of pages of cartridge free printing. Hallelujah. To learn more, search for HP Smart Tank. This episode is supported by Helix.
35:57 Speaker 01 Dax, is there anything better than crawling into a perfect bed on a cold fall night? Candlelit, hoodie on, maybe even some rain outside. The dream.
36:07 Dax Shepard? That's the dream. You just described one of my ideal fall nights.
36:12 Speaker 01 I know. And thanks to Helix, my bed actually lives up to the vibe. All I had to do was take the Helix Sleep Quiz and within two minutes, they matched me to a mattress built for exactly how I sleep. I have a midnight mattress. It also has cooling technology, which I really-
36:27 Dax Shepard? Increasingly so.
36:29 Speaker 01 I need it. I have to have it. And I heard that you're supposed to sleep at a cold temp for optimal sleep. It's very, very helpful.
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37:06 Dax Shepard? Go to helixsleep.com/armchair for 20% off site wide. That's helixsleep.com/armchair for 20% off site wide. Helixsleep.com/armchair. We get support from Skims. So Monica just informed me that she's a girl's girl, and I nodded like I knew exactly what that meant.
37:27 Speaker 01 Yeah, but the girls who get it, they get it.
37:30 Dax Shepard? Okay, but for those of us who are clearly not girls, walk me through it.
37:34 Speaker 01 Well, you know how much I love my Skims fleece joggers because the plush fleece is so soft, it's cozy. It's really comfortable without feeling too heavy. Well, I went to friend them and she would not stop talking about how comfy they were. She almost didn't give them back to me, which was upsetting, but I'm a girl's girl, so I let her have it.
37:51 Dax Shepard? Great. Great, great.
37:52 Speaker 01 So the sleep sets are awesome because they are very soft and comfortable, but they're cute. If I'm in my sleep set, I feel fine about going down the street to pick up my food. I'm still looking cute, but I'm comfy and I'm cozy.
38:06 Dax Shepard? Roger.
38:07 Speaker 01 A really fun thing to do is if you're going on vacation with your girlfriends, to get matching Skims pajamas. I've done this with Callie and it is so fun. First of all, the pics are so cute, but also it's just fun and friendship.
38:19 Dax Shepard? So a girl's girl is looking out for your friends with better loungewear. I get it. Am I one of your girls now?
38:25 Speaker 01 You are. You and the other girlies can shop my favorite loungewear and pajamas at skims.com. After you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you. Select podcasts in the survey and be sure to select our show in the dropdown menu that follows.
38:44 Dax Shepard? Now, again, there's trade offs with that, right? Is it fair to say maybe you would have gotten a sponsor easier?
38:50 Speaker 02 Definitely. Got a lot more media attention. Didn't always know how to manage it.
38:53 Speaker 01 Yeah, that's a lot.
38:54 Speaker 02 You kind of need it commercially because racing is expensive. But on the other hand, I remember going to some photo shoots and there was stuff, I'm not wearing that, you know, I'm a driver. At that time, the sport isn't what it is now. And there was very much stereotypes of you were a girl that had leather on and posed in a car, or you were a girl that drove the car.
39:10 Dax Shepard? Right, right, right. And I would imagine too, you want to be asked about driving and they probably want to ask you about being a female.
39:19 Speaker 02 All they wanted to ask me about was being a female. And that's fair enough. And I always thought talking about it can help others maybe be inspired by, or not be inspired because at that time I was never out to inspire others.
39:30 Dax Shepard? You want to win races.
39:31 Speaker 02 Yeah.
39:31 Dax Shepard? You didn't have a car.
39:32 Speaker 02 And I realized pretty quickly that it was all about the performance on track. Yes, you could talk about my gender, but it made it even more important that I went out there and showed what I could do. Because everyone seemed to have an opinion that I was either not going to be good enough or not physically fit enough. Or she's just there because she's a girl. She's only got the sponsor because she's a girl. So for me, I needed to go out and have the validation of a results sheet to say, no, this is why I can do it. Because look, I'm quick enough and I can compete. So it was always that validation through results. And that's what I love about sport. It's so pure.
40:01 Dax Shepard? Yeah, it's empirical. It's objective.
40:03 Speaker 02 Not subjective. I would struggle in your industry.
40:07 Speaker 02 One is pretty subjective.
40:08 Dax Shepard? Yeah, but sometimes you hit the hot streak of the subjectivity. You're like, fuck it, I'll take it.
40:13 Speaker 02 Then you're on the roll.
40:14 Dax Shepard? I don't think I'm better than that guy, but I'll take it. Yeah, what kind of neuroses arise in this period? Cause you're young and you're asked to, yeah, represent all girls in racing, which you didn't sign up for. You're a token. I'll just advise you to listen. Do you know who Malcolm Gladwell is? He's like a very famous American writer and he has a great podcast called Revisionist History. And he did an episode called The Token. And talking about the weight of being a token and how it's not fair to judge someone like Sammy Davis Jr. Because he was first one through the door and what he had to deal with just to be there so other people could walk through. I don't know, it's just until you take a minute to stop and think about the pressure of being a token. I think it's a really isolating. Did you feel very isolated in that experience?
41:00 Speaker 02 I remember real periods of loneliness, but it's difficult because I only have my own experience. So I don't know how different it was to someone else that wasn't a woman or feeling lonely anyways. But I definitely struggled sometimes in the environment. Because it was very much of a male, kind of macho, egoistical. And that's where I decided I wouldn't be another racing driver because I would overhear the way they spoke about women and girls. And I thought, well, I never want to be spoken about like that. But I didn't feel like in that situation, I could always be the one saying, hey, Don't do that. Stop saying that. You shouldn't be saying that or that's not fair on her. So I just kind of detached myself from it. I thought, I never want to be spoken about like that.
41:40 Speaker 02 I just had a love for the sport that meant I didn't want everything around my gender to take away from my love for just doing the sport and achieving.
41:49 Dax Shepard? But you're giving up a big chunk of your life when you're a kid. Did all your weekends are that, you're traveling. So if you don't have friendships at the races, then you're really missing a big opportunity or a big chunk that you would. Did you have friends in the race?
42:02 Speaker 02 I had, I shared a house with a bunch of Irish drivers and they became like my big brothers. And there was a lot of camaraderie. I did have friends who looked out for me and who we had a laugh with, but there was always just that.
42:15 Dax Shepard? Line.
42:16 Speaker 02 Yeah. Looking back now with the perspective I had, I think there was definitely moments where I would walk into a garage, especially if I joined a new team and I could feel the skepticism. Many people say, well, what did they say? I said, it's not a direct comment. I feel this skepticism or this idea that, oh, we have her, we didn't get him. And then when you have a bit of success with that team, first of all, they're a bit like, oh, oh, you can. But then the minute you get them with you, they are loyal. The environment and everything that comes with racing, aside from being in the car and performing, you just become used to, well, that's part of it. And that's part of the game. And it's an important part of the game because if you're not doing the media and the sponsorship commitments, you're not racing.
42:57 Dax Shepard? Yeah, talk about the financial stress of that whole period.
43:01 Speaker 02 Well, I'm giving away my age here because my main sponsor was British Telecom because they were launching something called broadband.
43:06 Dax Shepard? Okay.
43:09 Speaker 02 That's how long ago it was. But they were my saviors. And actually, I had a really tough year in 2005 because they were my main sponsor for Formula Three. And then I was at home visiting my grandmother, went out to buy her milk, slipped, broke my ankle. Oh, no. And those were dark months. I lost my race license, I lost my sponsor, I lost my seat in the F3.
43:30 Dax Shepard? And you were how old then?
43:32 Speaker 02 Twenty-two.
43:32 Dax Shepard? And you'd already left because you went to University of Edinburgh for a year?
43:36 Speaker 02 Yeah, I was a very conscientious student because my parents always said, can't race unless you do well at school. I'm a grafter. I don't have the natural ability, but I have no problem to work really hard. So I ended up second in my year in high school. And there was a lot of expectation that I would go to university. I picked international business, easiest thing when you have really no clue.
43:54 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
43:55 Speaker 02 But really felt like a duck out of water university. They were all partying, drinking, and I'm like, what am I doing here?
44:02 Dax Shepard? Is that because you had a certain immaturity because you hadn't been hanging out on the weekends and going to dances? Maturity.
44:09 Speaker 02 Because you'd been doing. Something so adult.
44:10 Dax Shepard? You don't feel like you had missed out on childhood at all by racing?
44:13 Speaker 02 Aspects of it, like boyfriend, girlfriend stuff.
44:16 Dax Shepard? Social stuff, going to the bar.
44:17 Speaker 02 I'm not a big drinker at all, even to this day. So I would see them all go out and get blind drunk and be like, what are you guys doing?
44:22 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah.
44:23 Speaker 02 And then I would have races on the weekend, so I would be kind of training and I was just in a different planet to the planet I got transported to and did never feel right there. So then I left after one year.
44:35 Dax Shepard? Was that hard? Did you feel like you were disappointing mom and dad?
44:38 Speaker 02 It was more hard that it's what everyone expected me to do, to have this backup plan. And I remember going into the economics lecture in the first day of my second year, I'd gone back. And I just thought, what am I doing here? I'm here because everyone tells me I should be here. I'm just a sheep that's following the flock. I just don't want to be here. And then I called home and one week later I had all my possessions in a little Golf TDI, which was my parents' car. I rented a room near Silverstone, worked as a marshal waving the flag.
45:05 Dax Shepard? Oh, really?
45:06 Speaker 02 In the little shop that sold race wear and focused fully on racing.
45:10 Dax Shepard? You get into Formula Three in 2001, 2001 to 2004.
45:15 Speaker 02 No, was that not Formula Renault?
45:16 Dax Shepard? I'm sorry, you were with Renault. So now you've gone from karting to a single-seat race car. And you do pretty good there. 2004, you finished fifth overall?
45:27 Speaker 02 Yeah, I nearly got third and that's the breakthrough year because I got nominated for British Young Driver of the Year, not just girl. And that was the first time a girl had ever been nominated.
45:36 Speaker 01 Wow.
45:36 Speaker 02 And that's when Toto first heard my name.
45:38 Speaker 01 Oh, wow.
45:39 Dax Shepard? Oh, really?
45:40 Speaker 02 We were a support race at this big festival and he tells a story of coming over the loudspeaker, the Formula Renault race coming, this girl that was fighting for the podium. And at the time, there was just no girls racing, never mind fighting for a podium. And he remembers thinking to himself, I need to come find this Susie. Just because he was interested, because he was driver managing at that time.
46:00 Speaker 01 Yeah.
46:01 Speaker 02 But let's just say I wasn't a very polished version of myself then, so I'm glad he didn't find me.
46:06 Dax Shepard? Okay, so you break your ankle. I read jogging, now you're saying to help grandma.
46:10 Speaker 02 I was exiting the newsagents with the milk and the bread and I slipped.
46:16 Dax Shepard? Are you so mad at grandma?
46:17 Speaker 02 No, you couldn't be mad at my grandma.
46:19 Dax Shepard? I know, grandma had taken care of grandpa, she deserved.
46:23 Speaker 02 No, it was the other side of the family.
46:24 Dax Shepard? Oh, it's the other side. Yeah, you could be mad at her.
46:26 Speaker 02 No.
46:27 Dax Shepard? Yeah, you could have been. Okay, so what was the Formula Three experience? You were on the feeder for Formula One.
46:33 Speaker 02 Yeah, it's F3, F2, F1.
46:35 Dax Shepard? If we had to like make an analogy to US sports, to go from karting would be like you're on a state champion high school team and then to go to single seat Renault, you've gone into college and now when you get to Formula Three, like you're in the professional league here. This is very serious.
46:50 Speaker 02 You're bubbling.
46:51 Dax Shepard? How many female drivers were in Formula Three at that point or had been?
46:56 Speaker 02 There were a couple racing at the time, like Catherine Legg, who's in Indy 500 now, she was racing at that time.
47:02 Dax Shepard? And how would y'all get along when you saw each other? Cause this might be counterintuitive. You might think, oh, you would get along so well, but maybe not. Cause often the tokens are pitted against each other.
47:11 Speaker 02 Exactly. We were always pitted and I felt it was unnatural to try and form a relationship with someone just because it was another girl.
47:18 Dax Shepard? Yeah, right.
47:18 Speaker 02 And I remember distinctly then when we made it to German touring, they would always arrange these photo shoots just with the girl drivers. I was always so against it. It's like, why do you pit it against each other when we've got everyone else that we need to beat?
47:28 Dax Shepard? Exactly. Okay, so how did Formula Three go?
47:31 Speaker 02 Well, it didn't because I was testing and then the ankle broke and I didn't ever compete in a race. I lost everything that year and I went through a really, probably the toughest time of my life. And then I got from an old team boss, I was testing World Series, which was like a competitor to F3, with the thought that I would be racing that the following year under kind of like a sponsorship agreement. But I got called into a meeting in February, six weeks before the first race, and got told that they kind of miscalculated the marketing budget and I'd need to bring 250,000 euros or pounds, which just was completely unrealistic for me at that time. I walked out of the meeting and I remember like yesterday, I was sitting in my Golf TDI and I called my dad. It sounds like I only speak to my dad. I speak to my mom a lot as well. It's just in those moments, it's my dad.
48:12 Speaker 02 And I remember saying to him, well, what am I gonna do? So I had a note to it and as I was kind of. Not really knowing what to say to him, a German number was trying to call my phone. I said, Dad, there's another call coming. I'll take this and I'll call you back. And I picked up the phone and this gentleman in a very thick German accent said, this is Gerhard Onger from Mercedes-Benz Motorsport. What do you think of German touring cars? Now, I had tested the car in the British Young Driver of the Year award. So I knew the car. It was 500 horsepower mega touring car.
48:41 Dax Shepard? A C-Class Mercedes, right? Monica, this is your car ding ding ding.
48:44 Speaker 01 I have one of those.
48:45 Speaker 02 You have a...
48:47 Speaker 01 Well, it was a gift.
48:48 Speaker 02 C63?
48:49 Dax Shepard? She has a C43. She's not...
48:51 Speaker 01 He didn't think I was ready.
48:56 Speaker 02 You're a good colleague.
48:57 Speaker 01 It was. It was. It's an extremely nice gift.
49:01 Speaker 02 But that's a really nice car.
49:02 Dax Shepard? She's not, but she was making a lot of money and I borrowed her car one day and it was this fucking beat up Toyota Prius. And I was driving in traffic in this car and I was like...
49:10 Speaker 02 You're not fine with it. Don't say that.
49:12 Speaker 01 I was. And then he was like, you can't have this. We're doing too well for you to be driving this car.
49:18 Dax Shepard? It's gonna cap your...
49:19 Speaker 02 Says so much about you which car you drive.
49:21 Speaker 01 See, I did not grow up like that at all. So it didn't. But all to say, I love my car and I love driving it. I feel special.
49:29 Dax Shepard? When she goes to her house across the street.
49:31 Speaker 02 And you really mean that. You get the joy now of...
49:33 Speaker 01 I understand what it does to you internally, not the speed, unfortunately.
49:39 Dax Shepard? But it does something to your identity.
49:40 Speaker 01 It does. It does.
49:41 Dax Shepard? You infuse its muscularity and its agility.
49:44 Speaker 01 It makes you confident. It says something about me.
49:46 Dax Shepard? It's a signal.
49:47 Speaker 01 Yeah.
49:47 Speaker 02 I think it's more than a signal because I give you the counter argument. I live in Monaco, which is really superficial and everybody drives supercars. So what do I drive? A 1972 Pagoda. I buck the trend of everyone trying to outdo each other.
50:00 Speaker 01 Yeah.
50:01 Speaker 02 I get my Pagoda with the roof down and it's like from the 1970s. So you can't like bounce along. But I love that I'm not trying to...
50:08 Dax Shepard? You guys are also on a 300SL a lot, I see. So you can only tell me so much.
50:12 Speaker 02 I'll give you that. I'll give you that. That's not my daily car.
50:15 Dax Shepard? The nicest Mercedes in the world.
50:16 Speaker 01 I know what you're saying.
50:17 Dax Shepard? That's her dream car, funny enough.
50:19 Speaker 01 He was gonna give me a ride.
50:20 Dax Shepard? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
50:21 Speaker 01 That was exciting.
50:22 Speaker 02 Come to Monaco and we'll give you a ride.
50:23 Speaker 01 I know, I know.
50:24 Dax Shepard? Monaco.
50:25 Speaker 01 I will.
50:26 Speaker 02 Now that you're into cars.
50:29 Speaker 02 Come to watch Formula One, Formula One Academy.
50:31 Speaker 01 I love watching Formula One.
50:33 Dax Shepard? Okay, so you get this call, we gotta get to Williams, but you have a long road to Williams.
50:38 Speaker 02 Well, the DTM years, everything hung on that test. I got myself out to Barcelona. And one story you will appreciate, I arrive at the track and the Germans are very direct. So I got my seat fitted and they're like, okay, and then we'll do a one lap. So yeah, can I just do a lap of the track, like a lap of the track? Do you not know this track? It's like, no, I've never driven Barcelona before. And they kind of looked at me and then Gerhard Renger kind of said, okay, Mika, come over here. And it was Mika Hakkinen, two-time F1 world champion. Show this girl around the track. So there I am in a higher car, Mika Hakkinen showing me the racing lines.
51:04 Dax Shepard? Is he sober?
51:08 Speaker 01 Oh.
51:10 Speaker 02 I'm gonna pretend I didn't hear that. So I obviously gave it all in the test. They leave me waiting 10 days, but then finally I get called over to Stuttgart, get offered a one-year contract and then of course ended up staying for, for seven years and, and chose to leave of my own back. Met Toto there. I thank my lucky stars to this day. That was my big break.
51:26 Dax Shepard? Such a sexy car you were racing. Way different though, right? So heavy, so big. Was the transition out of one-seater easy for you?
51:35 Speaker 02 No. And because I'd missed that year of F3, I was up against really, really quick drivers who were after F3 level. So I had a lot of catching up to do. But that's where I come into my comfort zone. I drilled down and I kind of had a great engineer at the time, HP, who got me so well prepared for the season. Cause I knew this was my one shot, one-year contract and managed to pull off a couple of really good races.
51:56 Dax Shepard? Now here's where we get into the fun. This is your history with Barbie and your history with pink. You've at times had to kind of silence your femininity or felt inclined to. And so they put you in a pink car or you had a pink race car. You had conflicting feelings about this?
52:11 Speaker 02 It's really good water.
52:13 Speaker 01 Good bubble density.
52:14 Dax Shepard? Strong, right? And you've let it cool for a while too.
52:16 Speaker 02 Mumbling. Yeah, I think in my teenage years, I went from that little girl that loved pink to. Feeling that my femininity was seen as a sign of weakness, so kind of boxed it away. And then it was really by being made to drive a pink car in DTM because the sponsor was a magazine that had a logo that was pink. But then realizing that, I think because I was older by that point, I was more confident in myself. And suddenly all these little girls started appearing at the track and dressed in pink. And they all asked me, is it the Hello Kitty car? Because it was a big Hello Kitty time then. And I think that made me realize that, well, actually, if pink is going to inspire little girls to come and see my car and to like racing, I can drive a pink car. It's cool.
52:58 Speaker 02 And I think it was also a transition in my life where I got married and Toto was so good at. He never wrapped me in cotton wool. He was tough, but we were a team and I wasn't on my own anymore. And when we got married, the Mercedes comms and marketing department were like, oh, you can't change your name. I was like, oh, I'm absolutely changing my name. Like, I'm not on my own anymore. I'm a Wolf.
53:17 Dax Shepard? It's a good name to take on. You kind of hit the jackpot. It can go sideways.
53:21 Speaker 02 And that also gave me a confidence that it just wasn't me on my own anymore.
53:25 Dax Shepard? He tells the story, so he had crashed at the Nürburgring and he was in the hospital. And that you came to see him in the hospital.
53:33 Speaker 02 Well, no, we were testing in Portugal, because this is the start of our love story. We were testing in Portugal in a track called Estoril. And Hans-Joan Matheus, who was a team manager, he came into the awning where all the drivers were, because I had seven teammates. And he said Toto Wolff had a really bad accident. Now, I remember the first time I even saw Toto in the hospitality, I was, well, I can share with you, the very first time. So we were sitting at a team dinner and Matthias Lauda, Nicky Lauda's son, was opposite me. And he was a very good friend of mine, him and his brother Lucas even to this day, but in a brother sister way. And Toto walked in and I'm following him, thinking, who is this guy? I haven't seen him here before.
54:08 Dax Shepard? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
54:09 Speaker 02 And Matthias is watching my eyes and then turning around to see what I'm looking at. And he was like, you're looking at him. And of course, my face went bright red.
54:18 Dax Shepard? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
54:19 Speaker 02 I said, well, no, who is that? He's like, well, his name's Toto Wolff and you've got no chance. He's dating Miss Austria.
54:25 Speaker 01 Oh my God. Oh my God. This is when all your friends are men. This is how they talk to you.
54:33 Speaker 02 So I'd obviously noticed Toto, but he was off balance. And then when Handjergamatis walked in and said, "Toto was had a really bad accident in Nürburgring." I was kind of like, "I hope he's OK. It hit me."
54:43 Speaker 01 Yeah.
54:43 Speaker 02 And he said, "Well, I think it'd be really nice if one of the drivers you called as a group." And Gary Paffett, who was kind of de facto the most senior driver, said, "Yeah, that's a really good idea. Susie, you should call him."
54:53 Speaker 01 Oh.
54:54 Speaker 02 I was like, "Yes, I'll call him."
54:55 Dax Shepard? I guess I have to.
54:56 Speaker 01 Yeah, for the team. I'll do it on behalf of the team.
54:58 Speaker 02 And then suddenly I had his number.
54:59 Speaker 01 Oh.
55:00 Speaker 02 And I wanted to call.
55:03 Dax Shepard? And then you'll go see him in person in the...
55:05 Speaker 02 No, I called him.
55:05 Dax Shepard? No, it was just a call?
55:07 Speaker 02 I called him and it should have been like a 10-minute... The drivers are all wishing you well, but we were on the phone for like an hour.
55:11 Dax Shepard? Oh.
55:12 Speaker 02 And then he said, "I'm gonna get better in the next kind of 10 days. The doctors say I'll be fine and I'll see you in Dusseldorf for the big presentation of the championship." So of course I'm counting down the days till Dusseldorf. Outfits, thinking, "This is gonna be brilliant in Dusseldorf." So we have this big dinner.
55:27 Speaker 01 New haircut.
55:28 Speaker 02 The night before. I did everything, like everything. And I'm sitting at the dinner. He's not there. And I'm thinking, "He's gonna walk in any second." Long story short, he doesn't turn up for dinner.
55:37 Dax Shepard? Oh, geez, Toto.
55:38 Speaker 01 Toto.
55:39 Dax Shepard? Toto.
55:40 Speaker 02 Thank you.
55:41 Dax Shepard? Come on.
55:42 Speaker 02 So comes to breakfast the next morning and I say to myself, "I'm not even gonna get in dressed."
55:46 Speaker 01 Who cares about...
55:47 Speaker 02 Straight into my race suit, hair tied back. Who cares about Toto?
55:50 Dax Shepard? This arrogant, extreme shithead.
55:52 Speaker 02 So I go down to breakfast and he comes over to the table all jolly and kind of sits near me. I said, "Well, what happened to you at the dinner last night?" He said, "Yeah, I called one of your teammates to check where it was and he said, 'Don't bother coming. It's boring.'"
56:05 Speaker 02 And I'm looking at the guy that he called.
56:07 Speaker 01 That person was in love with you.
56:08 Speaker 02 No, he wasn't even.
56:11 Dax Shepard? I like that take, yeah.
56:12 Speaker 01 Yep.
56:13 Dax Shepard? Yeah. Oh, you don't wanna go. Everyone just left. Bye, Toto.
56:16 Speaker 01 It's really boring here. It sounds like almost like a SNL. It's boring here. Like, don't come.
56:19 Dax Shepard? Everyone got food poisoning. It's a mess. Don't come.
56:22 Speaker 02 So we talk a bit and all the butterflies come up. And then I go off to do my thing and he's off to do his thing. And then at the lunch break, all the drivers and kind of the management are around and they're talking and of course comes to people's love lives. And I was actually dating someone from another team, but who was a manager, not a racing driver. Someone then said to Toto, you know, "How's it going after Miss Austria?"
56:42 Speaker 02 And then someone says to me, well, isn't it time that you dated someone at Mercedes, Susie? And I kind of said, well, there's nobody at Mercedes. And then Toto in front of everyone said, well, sure, there's me. What about me? Across my face. And I'm looking down at the ground, trying to laugh along. So I didn't really see him for the rest of the afternoon, but when I left to drive back to Switzerland, I had one of those thoughts, well, it's now or never. So I got my phone, I pulled into a fuel station, 10 times drafted this text message. And it basically said, if it had to be someone from Mercedes, it would only ever be you.
57:16 Dax Shepard? Wow, Susie!
57:18 Speaker 02 I put it all out there. I put it all out there.
57:22 Dax Shepard? I'm so ready! I know. I'm jealous. I want this text one more time. Wow.
57:29 Speaker 02 So I sent it and then got back on the motorway and got a reply pretty quickly. And I remembered, because it could have gone either way. Like, oh, you're so sweet, but no.
57:37 Dax Shepard? Yeah, get real. Miss Germany has just become available, it turns out. I'll circle back after I get through all the misses.
57:45 Speaker 02 I know.
57:45 Dax Shepard? I've got a few more countries to go.
57:47 Speaker 02 Yeah. But no, the message back was something about I'm getting in a plane. Oh, that's nice. I'll call you. I'm like, what?
57:53 Dax Shepard? Oh, boy.
57:53 Speaker 02 So it wasn't like a no, it wasn't a yes, but then he called two hours later and that was...
57:57 Dax Shepard? That was it. Then you guys were engaged eight months later. Then it's fast.
58:01 Speaker 02 He bought the ring six weeks later.
58:02 Dax Shepard? Oh, my gosh.
58:04 Speaker 02 And we were engaged eight months later. It was an immediate click.
58:07 Dax Shepard? Okay, quickly, are you sensitive at all about talking about Toto or no?
58:10 Speaker 02 No, zero.
58:11 Dax Shepard? Okay, great, great, great, great. Because I wanted to ask, tell me about the cultural chasm between the Scottish and the Austrians, right? So you've already hinted at a couple of them. It's like very direct.
58:22 Speaker 02 Very direct.
58:23 Dax Shepard? Some of the things he said to you over your, we'll get to, but when you drive for the first time in Formula One, he's like, don't be shit. It was like giving you a pep talk.
58:31 Speaker 02 Well, I thought it was going to be this big pep talk and he just looked at me and was like, don't be shit.
58:37 Dax Shepard? Did you get in a fight? Did you say?
58:38 Speaker 01 Hey, you need to be a little softer or no?
58:41 Speaker 02 No, that fires up something in me. I thought to myself.
58:44 Speaker 01 Well, yes, your whole life is about saying like, you think, okay.
58:49 Speaker 02 Yeah, you think I can't, I will.
58:50 Dax Shepard? It's her feel like Jordan.
58:51 Speaker 02 Yeah.
58:52 Dax Shepard? Did you watch The Last Dance?
58:53 Speaker 01 The Blue Game.
58:54 Dax Shepard? Yeah, and he just has to come up with an enemy. He's like, I'm gonna pick this guy from the team. And you know, he makes up a story why he hates this guy.
59:01 Speaker 01 It's a good motivator.
59:02 Speaker 02 I wanted to share with you just how direct he is.
59:04 Speaker 01 Yeah.
59:04 Speaker 02 The night before our wedding, well, the day we were signing the paperwork, he was very quiet. And the next morning, I said, is everything okay? He's like, yeah, I think so. I've done a positive and negative list.
59:13 Speaker 01 Oh, my God.
59:14 Speaker 02 And there's more positives and negatives. I'm like.
59:16 Speaker 01 Oh, my God.
59:17 Dax Shepard? That's not very romantic.
59:19 Speaker 02 Excuse me? I was like, I don't care what's on that list. We're getting married.
59:21 Speaker 01 We're getting married tomorrow, okay?
59:23 Dax Shepard? Too late for that list.
59:23 Speaker 01 Throw that list. Oh, my God, that is so funny.
59:27 Speaker 02 I think I was really lucky that Toto was nearly 10 years older or just over 10 years older than me. So he'd been married once before. He had two wonderful little kids. So he'd kind of been through it and knew exactly what he wanted.
59:38 Dax Shepard? Probably what to do differently, hopefully.
59:40 Speaker 02 Exactly. And I come from such a wonderful family who really embraced him. And you know, he lost his father at a young age. So I think through me, he saw this sense of family and this loyalty to each other that we stick together through thick and thin.
59:51 Dax Shepard? And probably his dream dad, fucking racing motorcycles, owning a shop, speed, speed, speed.
59:56 Speaker 02 Yeah.
59:56 Dax Shepard? That's a good family to click into.
59:58 Speaker 02 And I definitely struggled and I have obviously speak to my stepkids about it now. I struggled at the beginning because I was this selfish racing driver who suddenly on certain weekends would have to be a mother. And I just had no idea how to be in that situation. And I knew from my childhood and obviously the respect to his ex-wife that I didn't want to come in and pretend to be like a second mother. So that took a bit of navigating.
1:00:18 Dax Shepard? But then things come up and you are mothering.
1:00:21 Speaker 02 Yeah, and there was a little girl, I mean, Rosie, the cutest little girl you could imagine. And you feel so much affection, but then you don't want to overstep.
1:00:28 Speaker 01 Yeah. Fine line.
1:00:29 Speaker 02 And we weren't married then, so you're just trying to navigate. That wasn't easy at the beginning, but he was very understanding of it. And then when we got married, it all became just much easier because we knew, okay, we're a unit and we'll figure this out. It wasn't like I was going to disappear or anything.
1:00:43 Dax Shepard? I'm going to talk in broad stereotypes right now, so forgive me. There's going to be tons of exceptions to this rule that are Austrian. There's tons of exceptions that are male, but.
1:00:51 Speaker 02 But.
1:00:51 Dax Shepard? A very common tension with men and women around me is the woman says something. The man hears, oh, she's asking me to fix this problem. And then they start laying on, I'm going to fix this. And the woman's like, hey, man, I just wanted some compassion. I wanted you to just be with me with this. So that's like already a male female thing that kind of exists. And then I think Austrian, Scottish, Scottish are much more fucking Gaelic. We got flutes, we're very expressive, right? We're dancing around in the kilts, you know, it's a different culture. So I feel like that would even compound this male female thing a little bit.
1:01:28 Speaker 02 Completely, because I'm someone that's pretty tough. Like I give you example, like when I get ill, so it's like, do you need anything? I'm like, no, no, I'll be okay. Okay. So he just disappears.
1:01:37 Speaker 01 Oh, my God.
1:01:39 Speaker 02 Like six hours later, he comes back, I'm like, did you have a nice dinner? He's like, yeah.
1:01:42 Dax Shepard? Are you better yet?
1:01:42 Speaker 02 Do you think of bringing me anything or checking on me?
1:01:44 Speaker 01 Oh, my God.
1:01:45 Speaker 02 Well, are you better yet? I'm like, no, you're like, oh, well.
1:01:47 Speaker 01 He's like, no, you said you didn't need anything.
1:01:49 Speaker 02 It bores him, whereas if he gets ill, the world stops.
1:01:53 Speaker 01 Oh, my God.
1:01:54 Speaker 02 The world stops. And he's like, no, but what you had can't be what I have because it's so bad.
1:01:58 Speaker 01 I can't.
1:01:59 Dax Shepard? Certainly the same virus. I gave it to you, now you have it, now do you like it?
1:02:03 Speaker 02 Exactly. I definitely have to say he's got better with age. I arrived here yesterday and he wanted to surprise me by coming to the airport, which after we've been married 15 together, kind of 17 and a half. And I obviously had a car boot to pick me up and he wanted to surprise me, but he didn't realize that one of the group chats that he was speaking to our office on. I was also on, so he's like, I want to surprise her. I'm going to cancel her car and come into the airport. And I'm reading this on the airplane, I'm like, that's so.
1:02:28 Speaker 01 Such an intention, such a good intention. That is sweet.
1:02:32 Speaker 02 It's very sweet.
1:02:33 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:02:34 Dax Shepard? Okay, so now back to your racing.
1:02:36 Speaker 02 Back to racing.
1:02:37 Dax Shepard? After racing for DTM for seven years, I guess, how do you get? Called to Williams.
1:02:41 Speaker 02 Frank Williams had come to watch a German touring car race, DTM race at Brands Hatch. But at the same time, Toto was looking to possibly enter Formula One by investing. He looked at Toro Rosso at the time, was looking at Williams. So I don't shy away from the fact that I was on the radar, obviously also being Toto's wife. And Frank, I remember at the time.
1:03:00 Dax Shepard? Cause his daughter hadn't started running the team.
1:03:02 Speaker 02 No, she was simply working in the team.
1:03:03 Dax Shepard? Okay.
1:03:04 Speaker 02 And it was actually Toto was a big part in picking Claire up and saying, you need to be on the board. You need to be more involved and you're a Williams. But let's just say for Frank, he came from the era where women definitely didn't go out on the track to race. You know, they were very much behind the scenes and I was teammates at that time with David Coulthard and Ralf Schumacher, former drivers of his. He was always so interested in asking me about my racing and how did you start and you're Scottish. And he went to boarding school in Scotland and hated it. So we always had this joking about how I loved Scotland and he hated Scotland. And I said to him in one of those conversations, well, it's my big dream to drive a Formula One car. And at the end of the weekend, he called over Adam Parr, who was the CEO at the time. And he said, we've got something to tell you. We're going to give you 25 laps in an F1 car. And that's all it was ever supposed to be.
1:03:45 Dax Shepard? And at that point, you had not been in a single seat, massive.
1:03:49 Speaker 02 Nothing.
1:03:49 Dax Shepard? Aero car. So like you're rusty for this.
1:03:54 Speaker 02 Rusty, but DTM was a high level. So it wasn't like it was completely detached.
1:04:00 Dax Shepard? But just open wheel, closed wheel, tons of downforce.
1:04:03 Speaker 02 A Formula One car is completely different to anything else.
1:04:06 Dax Shepard? Yeah, we've interviewed a few drivers at this point, but just to remind people, the easiest way to say it is like, the car is creating so much downforce. It's a reverse airplane. It has a lot of aerodynamics to create the opposite of lift. And so it's pushing the car really far down and the current car weighs like 980 kilograms or something.
1:04:25 Speaker 02 Love how informed.
1:04:26 Speaker 01 He's very informed.
1:04:27 Dax Shepard? But the car is creating 2000 kilograms of downforce. So for real, the car at a certain speed could drive upside down just fine. So you've just got to remember, that's the element in F1 that's not in other racing.
1:04:39 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:04:40 Dax Shepard? And that's why at Silverstone, you can take a right-hander in seventh gear going 190 miles an hour, a sharp right-hander and be stuck to the fuck. And that's a leap of faith.
1:04:50 Speaker 02 It is because it's counterintuitive that the more speed you have, the more downforce you have.
1:04:55 Dax Shepard? And the more you're going to stick to the ground.
1:04:57 Speaker 02 Yes.
1:04:57 Dax Shepard? You've got to unravel everything you've learned almost.
1:05:00 Speaker 02 But the great thing is, and I was really lucky because as soon as that decision was made, I mean, really hats off to Williams, I was put through my pasties in the simulator, straight line tests, everything to get me ready to perform in that test. There was no way I was getting in without being really ready for it.
1:05:17 Speaker 03 Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare.
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1:07:55 Dax Shepard? This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. If you've thought about trying therapy with our long-term partner BetterHelp, insurance options may now be available nationwide with an average copay for eligible members of just $23 per session. October 10th is World Mental Health Day, but you don't need a day on the calendar to give yourself permission to talk to someone. I've been in therapy for a long time, and the stuff rattling around in my head always just quiets down the second I say it out loud. And it doesn't have to be some big life crisis. Maybe it's a work thing that's taking up too much space, or hard relationship moment, or just a feeling that something's off. That's enough. That's worth talking about.
1:08:33 Speaker 01 You know, I love therapy more than anything. Gets me through. Often I'll want to cancel because I'm like, I don't really have anything to talk about. And then I'll go and I have some major revelation.
1:08:44 Dax Shepard? You know, I was just talking to a friend who has just started it. And I said, one of the most powerful elements of it is just hearing yourself say out loud the thing that's been ruminating in your head and how different it sounds once it's out into the world. You gain perspective immediately just by hearing yourself say it.
1:08:59 Speaker 01 Yeah, you do.
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1:10:22 Dax Shepard? Let's talk about the physicality.
1:10:23 Speaker 02 The physicality was hard to prepare for. I ended up getting access to the machine that Michael Schumacher built at the end of his career to build up only your neck muscles. And interestingly, when I stopped racing, within months, my neck had just shrunk in size. Cause neck muscles build up quickly, but shrink quickly.
1:10:38 Dax Shepard? Suzie wears her hair always down to cover her neck. She's insecure about how big her traps.
1:10:43 Speaker 02 Not anymore. I mean with the ball.
1:10:45 Dax Shepard? Back in the day.
1:10:45 Speaker 02 Back in the day. My Botox guy says I have a thick neck as well.
1:10:50 Dax Shepard? Oh, is he gonna botox that thing?
1:10:52 Speaker 02 But I guess I do. We work to keep it small. But maybe I could have been at one. Oh my God, I missed my calling.
1:11:02 Dax Shepard? But in a nutshell, so yes, your body at rest, if you weigh 150 pounds at one atmospheric pressure, you weigh 150 pounds. But as G-forces go up, there are moments on the track. I know the one that got you really hardcore was braking. You'll hit 4.5 Gs braking.
1:11:20 Speaker 02 And it's like something coming behind you, forcing your head forward. Cause you're strapped so tight into the seat and the seat's made for you and everything's down to the millimeter. So you're really well strapped in. You need very, very strong braking leg because the brake pressure is important. And then there's power steering in the car. So it's not actually your arm muscles that take a strain, it's your neck. But Lewis had said to me, put a neck pad in. Paint it white so people can't really see it, it fades into the car.
1:11:46 Dax Shepard? This is in Barcelona, there's one really, really long turn. And he's like, use it because if your neck goes, you had to do seventy two laps at Barcelona.
1:11:54 Speaker 02 It was a test to see if I could do a race distance. And he said, if your neck goes, which means you just can't hold up anymore. He said, you'll have to stop and you don't want to stop. So he said, use, he said, I do it at the beginning of a season as well, before my neck muscles get built up. And that was one of the best tips because he said, as you just entered it, right, lean. So don't even try because it's like being a roller coaster, but trying to keep your head straight. It's nearly impossible.
1:12:15 Dax Shepard? Twenty turns for seventy two laps, it's like impossible.
1:12:19 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:12:19 Dax Shepard? Yeah, if your head weighs eighteen pounds, it now weighs ninety pounds in the turn.
1:12:24 Speaker 02 Yeah, those very first twenty laps, it was a damp track to begin with, which helps G4s, but it's more challenging to be on a damp track. But there was never a moment on that day where, because they'd done such a good job in the preparation, and obviously there was so much media around the fact that a girl was getting back in an F1 car, which they had underestimated and I didn't even think would factor. But to your point earlier, it then worked in my favor because they realized I did well in the day and this is a big opportunity because this amount of interest for the team is hugely valuable. So they developed a role for me because it was in November and the team was already set for the following year. Development driver, which is a common term in F1 now, a development driver.
1:13:02 Dax Shepard? Yeah, so what were your duties as a development driver?
1:13:04 Speaker 02 Lots of simulator work, lots of straight line tests and then some testing throughout the season because it wasn't as limited as it is now.
1:13:11 Dax Shepard? Okay, so when you get called and told you're going to drive in practice at Silverstone for the British Grand Prix, at that time, it had been twenty two years since a female had been on a track in an F1 car.
1:13:26 Speaker 02 Wow.
1:13:27 Dax Shepard? How'd that decision come about and what was your response?
1:13:32 Speaker 02 So I did that one test that went well and then I became development driver and I was doing steady work of not crashing the car, straight line test. And it was all kind of a natural development. And I was obviously also pushing to say, well, what's next? Because you're getting used a lot in the media and there had to be an authenticity to it. And to be fair to Williams, they also just didn't want it to be a show. It had to have substance.
1:13:53 Dax Shepard? Well, people were accusing it of being some kind of a promotional media stunt.
1:13:57 Speaker 02 Completely. So we felt then, well, there had to be substance to it. And that's why it just kept progressively getting to be more opportunity.
1:14:05 Dax Shepard? So just talk about the morning waking up. I can already imagine this. You'd love to go into that day very rested. But of course, the brain is like, there's no way you can sleep the night before, right? And Toto's next you, he has a race as well. He's now principal of Mercedes in this time. And so you're just up all night, right?
1:14:25 Speaker 02 Yeah, it was really difficult because there was so many thoughts going through my head. And the first thing I did when I woke up is you immediately checked the weather because that plays such a big part in if it was going to be damp. And the very difficult thing with FP1 sessions is that I was taking Valtteri Bottas' car. And if I caused any damage, it had a huge impact on his race weekend. So you're very much told by the team, we're gonna let you go for a fast lap because it means nothing to me if I can't go out and do a fast lap. Everyone's looking and I'd rather not drive than just drive around slowly.
1:14:57 Dax Shepard? Be 20th on the.
1:14:58 Speaker 02 Exactly. But the golden rule is there's no way you can crash that car.
1:15:03 Dax Shepard? Yeah, the amount of stress that you're taking on. It's not even a real fair test of what you could do. This moment that people that aren't into cars wouldn't understand, but like the most humiliating thing you can do is fucking stall a car. So even just right there, you getting out of the garage is like packed with stress. No, will you stall or not?
1:15:23 Speaker 02 Got out the garage and it was the first thing my dad said to me when I came in. He's like, that guy didn't stall.
1:15:27 Speaker 01 Oh, my God.
1:15:28 Dax Shepard? Yeah, you're either gonna stall or spin the tires, which you don't want to do because then you're all out of control leaving the garage. There's like this tiny little window.
1:15:35 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:15:35 Dax Shepard? But you get out, you gotta be like, okay.
1:15:40 Dax Shepard? And then you get out there and what does the experience like once you're on track?
1:15:45 Speaker 02 Well, my very first test was a great experience, the FP1 at Silverstone. My wonderful Mercedes engine blew after one lap and that was such an anticlimax.
1:15:55 Dax Shepard? Oh, yes, yes, yes. Okay, but then you go back out, you do another. Practice session in Spain?
1:16:03 Speaker 02 Hockenheim. That was where I'd made my German touring car debut.
1:16:06 Dax Shepard? Now, this is a big day because on this day, you ended up finishing the practice session just two tenths off of Felipe Massa's.
1:16:17 Speaker 02 Was it two? I thought it was one.
1:16:18 Dax Shepard? Okay, the internet says two.
1:16:20 Speaker 02 No, I think I probably, my head, I have it as one. It was probably two.
1:16:24 Dax Shepard? Two tenths of a second next to the team driver is fucking awesome.
1:16:29 Speaker 02 But that was such a different mentality to Silverstone because I think the disappointment of Silverstone, I got to Hockenheim and I was in such a different statement.
1:16:39 Dax Shepard? You were angry.
1:16:40 Speaker 02 Yeah. Let me get out there. I have to use this chance now.
1:16:44 Dax Shepard? Pissed off.
1:16:44 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:16:45 Dax Shepard? It's a good fuel source.
1:16:46 Speaker 02 And I was so thankful I had that other chance because I thought if it had just been that and the engine had gone. So I was so grateful. And there was just one corner. I knew that there was a chance of hitting the gravel. So that's where I lost about a tenth and a half. Everywhere else on the track, I was on the limit.
1:17:01 Dax Shepard? Uh huh.
1:17:02 Speaker 02 The feeling of driving an F1 car on the edge, I think there's nothing else that comes close.
1:17:08 Dax Shepard? Everything's happening so fast. There isn't a single stray thought about anything else. It requires such concentration and looking ahead nonstop that it is a unique state to find yourself in.
1:17:21 Speaker 02 Completely. And if you ask some of the current F1 drivers, some even prefer qualifying because it's all down to that one lap. Whereas in a race, you're always having to think of, okay, when the pit stops, where you are in the race, everything. Whereas in qualifying, it's everything into one lap and it's such a hyper focus. It's a special feeling.
1:17:39 Dax Shepard? How fatigued did you feel at the end of Germany?
1:17:41 Speaker 02 Zero. I was so hyped and pumping with adrenaline.
1:17:45 Dax Shepard? The neck was huge.
1:17:46 Speaker 02 I won't say that by the, yeah.
1:17:48 Dax Shepard? The neck was bulging?
1:17:51 Dax Shepard? Slapping?
1:17:53 Speaker 02 You need to tell your botox doctor. If he wants to see a big neck, I'll send him pictures of it. I mean, don't get me wrong, by the evening, I was completely, the adrenaline had worn out. But for me, it was the best day of my career.
1:18:05 Dax Shepard? You ultimately retired in 2015, although you do have a race in 16, Race of Champions.
1:18:09 Speaker 02 Yeah, that's more like a fun event for current NEX drivers.
1:18:13 Dax Shepard? You have cute Jack in 17.
1:18:15 Speaker 02 Best thing I've ever done, yeah.
1:18:16 Dax Shepard? Oh, yeah. What could be better? You become the team principal in Formula E for Venturi Racing.
1:18:22 Speaker 02 It was a team that was... At the back, losing a lot of money and I was searching for what to do after stopping my racing career. I was fighting a complete lack of identity.
1:18:34 Speaker 01 Yes, I'm sure.
1:18:35 Speaker 02 I had fallen. As much as I loved being a mother, very quickly realized that I can't only be a mother. So was searching to find that thing. And then the Formula E opportunity came and I was a real skeptic of Formula E at the beginning because it was like electric racing cars. That wasn't my era, but it gained a lot of momentum when diesel get happened and electrification became a big thing. And a tough challenge.
1:18:55 Dax Shepard? Yeah, because team principal is a much different role than driver.
1:18:59 Speaker 02 Hugely different.
1:19:00 Dax Shepard? Yeah, you're a manager, you're an inspirer, you're so many things.
1:19:03 Speaker 02 And I had a lot to learn. But I had watched Toto closely start to become very successful in F1 and I kind of had a front row seat of hearing what his challenges were, of watching him do it. So I knew what the job entailed and Formula E obviously is this much smaller scale than F1. And my business partner, who offered me the role and took a real leap of faith in me, Gildo Pastor, was someone I just had a good connection with and felt okay, I can trust him. And we turned the team around and then nearly won the Formula E World Championship.
1:19:33 Dax Shepard? Yeah. And then you became the CEO of that team? Why did you leave? You left in 2022?
1:19:39 Speaker 02 We sold the team. Gildo wanted to exit and move into the space industry. He wanted to build an electric rover to go on Mars.
1:19:45 Speaker 01 Oh, my.
1:19:46 Speaker 02 Which we were set to do together again until I got the call from Stefano Domenicali for F1 Academy.
1:19:52 Dax Shepard? All right. So tell people what F1 Academy is.
1:19:54 Speaker 02 F1 Academy is a series started by F1, which is for all female drivers. We've nearly fully funded drivers in the series and it's basically a platform or a series to give female talent the opportunity in the sport to break down the preconceptions that it's a man's world and to kind of inspire the next generation to see that there's a place for women in the sport.
1:20:14 Dax Shepard? Response to noticing, right, the demographic of fans was changing pretty dramatically. Like, a lot of young females were coming in as spectators of the sport.
1:20:22 Speaker 02 It had shifted massively.
1:20:24 Speaker 01 Because of the show?
1:20:26 Dax Shepard? I bet that's a big part of it.
1:20:28 Speaker 02 Wish show.
1:20:30 Speaker 01 It definitely got a lot of people who didn't know about F1 to be paying attention.
1:20:33 Dax Shepard? I'm into Formula One because of Drive to Survive. I was like, oh, yeah, I was like, that's the boringest racing in the world. They don't ever pass each other. Who cares? And then once I found out, like, how much is going into the nobody passes anybody? I'm like, oh, there's so much going on that I just didn't know. It's a science fair.
1:20:49 Speaker 02 It completely is. And then there's drama off track as well as on track, the politics.
1:20:54 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:20:54 Dax Shepard? What a show, what a show.
1:20:55 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:20:56 Dax Shepard? So, yeah, they had all these new female spectators.
1:20:59 Speaker 02 And a very young female demographic. And I have to give credit to Stefano, to Liberty. They said, OK, we need to create something that gives opportunity to young women because they recognized that it was shifting. And would I have started an all-female series? I mean, we were the only race series in the world that over 80% funds our drivers. So, basically, we're giving half a million euros to every driver in order to do a season and really have the possibility to nurture their talent and allow them to develop.
1:21:29 Dax Shepard? But in some weird way, did you have to step over the notion that this is going backwards? We're trying to get women and men to race together. So if we split this off, is that lowering the bar for the women?
1:21:41 Speaker 02 Yeah. And there was someone that had tried and failed before called W Series. And people had always said, oh, why didn't you get involved in support? But I didn't get involved because I didn't understand the business model. I didn't understand how they were going to make it work. And they were doing it as a business venture. So it was more that I didn't understand the sustainability of how to make it into a business. Whereas with F1 Academy, it was backed by F1. It had the investment from Liberty. It was set up very differently.
1:22:06 Dax Shepard? I think we should talk about that. When you got there, the driver was responsible for a third of the budget. Liberty was going to give a third, and then F1 gives a third, or someone else?
1:22:16 Speaker 02 The driver one third, the team one third, and Liberty one third.
1:22:19 Dax Shepard? Right. So this is a lot of onus on the young driver. And there's not a lot of sponsor money flooding into this. New things. So when you got there, it wasn't actually tenable.
1:22:27 Speaker 02 It wasn't tenable at all. And I will never forget the first time I, because there was a lot to get the contract on board. I obviously had to exit from the space project and I was letting Gildo down. So it all took a bit of management. So by the time I got to my first race, I remember getting near, it was Paul Ricard in South of France, thinking, there's no cars around. Why is this so empty? And I got to the entrance and there wasn't even a security guy in the entrance. I'm thinking, it's really strange. And I get to the paddock.
1:22:52 Dax Shepard? You thought you had the wrong date, maybe?
1:22:53 Speaker 02 I thought I'd said something wrong.
1:22:54 Dax Shepard? Calendar debacle.
1:22:55 Speaker 02 And I get out of my car and I'm immediately met by drivers to say, you know, I just want to give you the heads up. I can't find the one third sponsorship money. It was 150,000 euros. Then some of the team managers came and said, we're not finding any sponsorship out there. So we're out.
1:23:06 Speaker 01 Oh, boy.
1:23:08 Dax Shepard? You're finding out you've taken on a reward. It's collapsing, basically.
1:23:12 Speaker 02 And I called Stefan. I said, listen, this is not working. He's like, okay, well, what do we need to do? I was like, I don't know just now, but let me figure it out. Give me time. And that's when I quickly realized, okay, we need to race with F1. We need to get the F1 teams on board and we need to get commercial partners on board and bring all the assets in-house.
1:23:25 Dax Shepard? And so then you go through this precarious building of commitment from the teams and you go to Toto first.
1:23:32 Speaker 02 Who's like, get everyone else and then you'll get me.
1:23:34 Dax Shepard? I can be the first one in, you're gonna have to get six in and then I can be the seventh.
1:23:40 Speaker 01 Toto.
1:23:42 Speaker 02 Never likes to make it easy. No, you can't show favoritism.
1:23:46 Speaker 01 Exactly.
1:23:46 Speaker 02 And I completely get that. It wasn't even that I felt angry about it. I completely understood.
1:23:51 Dax Shepard? So you were able to do that, though. You got six teams. You had to go to Horner, which is its own unique thing.
1:23:57 Speaker 02 Because of the.
1:23:58 Dax Shepard? The rivalry between Toto and Horner.
1:24:00 Speaker 02 But to be fair to him, he was great.
1:24:01 Dax Shepard? He was quick in.
1:24:02 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:24:02 Dax Shepard? You were able to make this kind of a viable offering. And then how has the success of it unfolded?
1:24:09 Speaker 02 With the F1 teams, I didn't sign them up long term. I said, listen, if this doesn't work, you can all leave. I'm not obliging you. Because what I didn't want it to be was.
1:24:15 Dax Shepard? A charity.
1:24:16 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:24:16 Speaker 02 A charity, but also like a feminist crusade. It's us against the world. It wasn't. I said to them, you know, I think this will be for the greater good of the sport. We have this new fan demographic, but it's got to work. And if it doesn't, you're all free to leave because this is not something I'm obliging you to do that you feel you have to do. And then within the year, it kind of started gaining momentum. And then when I kind of at the beginning of this year, went to all the teams, it was clear that they wanted to sign up for the long term. And we have commercial partners, but it's just really gone. From strength to strength, but I don't take all the credit for that because I do think the sport in itself should take the credit because they've created this opportunity and they've all got on board with it.
1:24:50 Dax Shepard? And they made some compromises they hadn't in the past, like they're letting you use the logo in a way that other teams can't. They've carved out some provisions to be helpful. And then you've got some major sponsors. You've got Hilfiger, you've got a makeup brand that I don't know the name of.
1:25:03 Speaker 02 Charlotte Tilbury, and now we have Sephora.
1:25:05 Speaker 01 Great.
1:25:06 Speaker 02 We have Pepsi with Gatorade, we have American Express.
1:25:08 Dax Shepard? Yeah, Marquee.
1:25:10 Speaker 02 Who made an F1 Academy car.
1:25:11 Speaker 01 Cute.
1:25:12 Speaker 02 The commercial partnerships were very strategic in that I want your 13-year-old, or however old your daughter is, to feel some affinity. Well, I can belong there. There's a place for me in this sport. So when she goes to a kart track or another little eight-year-old goes to a kart track, she's like, I can do this because she's seen others doing it and she sees the pathway. And it just takes one, but it can change everything.
1:25:31 Dax Shepard? It makes that reality possible.
1:25:33 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:25:34 Dax Shepard? Do you have any part of scouting who will join the academy? Do you have fun observing young racers and thinking who would be, are they already coming by way of the teams?
1:25:43 Speaker 02 It's kind of a mixture. I get a lot of fun, and that's a little bit why I wrote the book of passing on all my learnings because I really feel as women, especially when you have knowledge and experience, it's so important to pass it on to the next generation because it can help so much for others not to face the same battles you did. So I do love that I'm giving them a chance because I've got chances in my life, that I'm kind of passing on the challenges that they can learn from, they don't have to go through themselves. And I love being on the race weekends and seeing them take this opportunity. And we still have our skeptics and we still have our egomaniacs in the paddock who will always be negative about it. I know them and I know their opinions are never going to change, but that's okay because I feel the momentum of it as a whole. And I think ultimately,
1:26:26 Speaker 02 you know, we see more young girls turning up at karting tracks.
1:26:29 Dax Shepard? And a lot of the young women are very popular, like they'll outpay. The popularity of some F3 drivers, like if I look at Instagram and stuff, you have some drivers that are pretty wildly popular, which is cool.
1:26:40 Speaker 02 Which is very cool.
1:26:41 Dax Shepard? Now, if you had to distill everything you know of your last thirty plus years navigating a fully male environment, what advice do you have as far as like, no, you can be out loud and be pink? But also, here's a reality that you're not gonna get around.
1:27:01 Speaker 01 I mean, do you think you can be out loud and pink?
1:27:03 Speaker 02 Now I do. Looking back, you know, it was so funny because at the end of the book, my brother kind of said, oh, what would you tell little Susie? And when I sat down, it was like, not what I can tell her. It's what that little girl, that belief she had in herself, that fearlessness, that ambition, that little girl who said at thirteen, I want to make it to F1, despite the fact there was nobody that looked like her doing that. And I sometimes think that if we go back to the child in us, what would your life be if you had no limitations? If you didn't have society's preconceptions shoved on you of what your life should look like and what you should be? For all my years, and that's where the book's given me so much perspective, because I think I compartmentalize. I'm always looking forward. I never really looked backwards to think, okay, well, how was the journey? What did I learn?
1:27:47 Speaker 02 But I think it's having that belief in yourself. And sometimes there'll be moments of your life where you do doubt yourself. There's moments where I'm not sure I've got this all under control. But you've got to have that belief.
1:27:56 Dax Shepard? Are there like domains that you've seen where it's like, oh yeah, that's how it is? And this is where I can make progress?
1:28:01 Speaker 02 I think where we are in the sport now compared to even just five years ago, even 10 years ago, there's been a huge shift culturally. And maybe it's linked to society and the whole Me Too movement. And some say, oh, I went too far. It helped industries like ours because let's say the behaviors of certain individuals, and I don't want to say it's black marking everyone, but the culture changed. You don't get away with it anymore.
1:28:24 Dax Shepard? You're seeing it everywhere across the board. You're seeing these older figures in Formula One putting their feet in their mouth pretty regularly, like in the last five years. There's all this residual racism that you're like, whoa, what'd he say? A German driver has a different mind than a Mexican driver? You know, there's been a lot of rapidly evolved. Evolving cultural changes.
1:28:45 Speaker 02 And I think Lewis should take some credit for it.
1:28:46 Dax Shepard? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:28:47 Speaker 02 You know, he's someone that the easiest thing to do is just follow the trodden path. But he chose to be different. He brought a culture into the sport. He made that entry into the pits like a catwalk. Yeah. For all of us, which has been great for the sport. But he chose to stand up for what he believed in and he chose to be different because that's who he was. And that also helped.
1:29:05 Dax Shepard? Moved it all forward. Yeah, when your most valuable asset is being out loud about racism, what choice do you? You can't silence that person.
1:29:13 Speaker 02 And he's a goat.
1:29:14 Dax Shepard? Yeah, yeah.
1:29:14 Speaker 02 Exactly. So if he says it, people are forced to listen.
1:29:17 Dax Shepard? Back to the objectivity. You can say what you want. This guy's won 100 races. He has the goods.
1:29:22 Speaker 02 Yeah, but definitely what I see now, the minute I go into an important meeting, I can tell within the first 10 minutes if the man at the table has a daughter or not. Because it's such a different view when you're a man with a daughter at the table. Because it's as if you're able to see the situation through what your daughter would experience.
1:29:40 Dax Shepard? Yeah, and you want the world to be the most inviting place for her.
1:29:44 Speaker 02 And even some of the decision makers in the sport, who maybe their daughters are not going to come into the sport, but you can see them understanding, yeah, I get that. Because actually, would I want my daughter to be treated like that or not get that opportunity? No, I wouldn't. And so they're much more proactive. And I think that's also changed because the leaders now, they are the next generation. And they want this sport to be in the right place.
1:30:06 Dax Shepard? Yeah, Stefano is just a good dude on top of everything else. Yeah, he's not like some of the previous heads of F1.
1:30:13 Speaker 02 No.
1:30:13 Dax Shepard? Yeah, he's an evolved guy. You've been fearless. What has it been like watching your son be in karts?
1:30:20 Speaker 02 Well, it's so interesting, your story with your daughter, because Jack is really into racing. He has been from a young age. And you could argue, well, he's surrounded by it. But Toto was very against him getting into racing because he kind of felt, why would we do that to ourselves, you know, with the name and it's our industry? And I kind of said to him, I get that, but I got given that chance. And if he really wants it, I'm not going to not give him the chance. Yeah.
1:30:45 Dax Shepard? Toto got scared by one accident.
1:30:48 Speaker 02 He is a parent that has fear for his kids or just anything happening in general. Yeah. But he also, when we started going to the kart track, he could see how much Jack got into it. And now we have the life of the motorhome, the races.
1:31:00 Dax Shepard? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:31:00 Speaker 02 And those are some of the best weekends we have because it's back to basics and it's together as a family. And it's seeing this little guy have to dig deep in moments. And yes, his name makes him a target.
1:31:11 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
1:31:12 Speaker 02 But I say to myself, well, it'll toughen him up because no matter what he does in life and whether he's good enough or not, he'll have to figure it out. But I think sport for a young person just teaches you so many life skills.
1:31:23 Dax Shepard? How about you driving? Do you still get joy out of driving? Do you do track days?
1:31:27 Speaker 02 I don't have capacity because now every weekend that I'm not on a F1 weekend, it's with Jack on the kart track. I kind of feel I had my turn.
1:31:34 Dax Shepard? Okay.
1:31:35 Speaker 02 It was great. I still love driving fast. Toto and I, I think if we would have a free weekend, we would love nothing more than to get on a racetrack with a GT car or something. But then it can always end up with us not speaking to each other because we both want to beat each other.
1:31:45 Dax Shepard? Yeah, but he was very honest about he tries to cheat every time and that you're always a half second faster, no matter what cheating he does.
1:31:52 Speaker 02 I love that.
1:31:52 Dax Shepard? He put different tires on the kart. He put ballast in your kart.
1:31:55 Speaker 02 Can't be beat.
1:31:56 Dax Shepard? No matter what, you're still half second always faster.
1:31:59 Speaker 02 Yeah, there will be a moment in time where we will be the old ones out on track.
1:32:04 Dax Shepard? Oh, I hope we're best friends at this point.
1:32:07 Speaker 02 That's so fun.
1:32:07 Dax Shepard? I'll be there with you.
1:32:08 Speaker 02 All we have. So cool.
1:32:09 Dax Shepard? Well, I'll tell you what your book does a great job of. The book's called Driven, is you really do a good job of helping people understand what it's like to be sitting in the car strapped in. The experience of it is so unique and you do a great first person job of explaining what that feels like. That's a very unique perspective.
1:32:32 Speaker 02 Well, that's a real compliment coming from you.
1:32:34 Dax Shepard? Yeah, yeah, no, it's so unique. And I think it's so applicable to any situation where it's like, okay, I've been aiming at nothing but this. We're now here. Oh, fuck. You don't have to be into racing to have that experience. You're pitching for the first time as the head of your department and this is the day. And I think it's highly relatable. I adore you. And I'm really glad I got to meet you.
1:32:57 Speaker 02 You're gonna make me blush.
1:32:59 Speaker 01 This was so great.
1:33:00 Dax Shepard? But Driven is out now. Also, people can listen to it, which I advise.
1:33:05 Speaker 01 You read it?
1:33:06 Speaker 02 I read it, yeah.
1:33:06 Speaker 01 Nice.
1:33:07 Dax Shepard? Was that daunting?
1:33:08 Speaker 02 You know, my publisher said, oh, you need five days. I was like, I don't have five days. So I did it in two.
1:33:12 Speaker 01 Yeah. So it's like double speed.
1:33:14 Speaker 02 Therapeutic in a way. I kind of got into a rhythm. I really enjoyed it.
1:33:17 Dax Shepard? And did you have this moment? I think sometimes when I've read what I've written, it helps me integrate what happened in my life.
1:33:25 Speaker 02 I found it was a lot more work than I anticipated and we were perfectionists. We got to nine drafts, my brother and I. But I found the whole experience really enjoyable and therapeutic, definitely.
1:33:36 Dax Shepard? Yeah, like it helps you take a minute and recognize, oh, right, I really did go through all those things and I survived all those things. And I can survive a lot. Did you get unexpectedly emotional while reading it ever? Yeah, what parts?
1:33:48 Speaker 02 The hardest was the letter to little Susie. I took like five attempts because I kept welling up. Because I guess it was the moment where I was speaking to myself in a way, but it was very emotional.
1:33:59 Dax Shepard? I bet I know what was going on, which is Susie's been talking so mean to herself since she was a little kid. And you got to be kind to her and you probably deserved a little kindness from yourself.
1:34:11 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:34:11 Dax Shepard? And that's really hard, right?
1:34:12 Speaker 02 That is so true. It was always more. It was always you're gonna keep going, this is not good enough and keep.
1:34:18 Dax Shepard? And you're so mean to yourself.
1:34:19 Speaker 02 I look at that little girl and I want to give her a hug.
1:34:21 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:34:22 Dax Shepard? Just take a break for a second.
1:34:23 Speaker 01 And aren't you proud of her?
1:34:25 Speaker 02 And so thankful to my parents looking back, but this little girl who had this dream and drive and ambition is like, I just want to hug her and say, you did okay.
1:34:35 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:34:36 Dax Shepard? It's stressful having a huge dream.
1:34:38 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:34:38 Speaker 01 Oh, God.
1:34:39 Dax Shepard? Well, Susie, I adore you. This has been so fun. Everybody read Driven. I'm so glad you wrote it. You're so good for the sport. And I hope we get to talk to you again. I really hope we're like in our seventies, driving the Nürburgring together on a weekend.
1:34:52 Speaker 02 I think let's do a trip to the TT and then from there go straight to Nürburgring, do a few laps.
1:34:57 Dax Shepard? I'm in. I took Kristen to the Nürburgring in a rental.
1:35:02 Speaker 02 But do you know the track?
1:35:04 Dax Shepard? I didn't. That was my first time there. I rented a car at Avis Rental Car at Frankfurt Airport. And I asked the German Avis Rental guy, could you put into the nav, because it was all in German? Can you put in the Nürburgring? Oh, no, you must not drive this car on the ring. I said, oh, no, no, no, I would never drive this. No, you must not. I go, no, no, I'm gonna go spectate. I just wanna look at it from far as... Okay, he reluctantly put it in. Sure enough, we went and just bought laps. And yeah, went out and we were in a pack between a GT2 and a GT3. We're in like base 911. But it was so fun. But anyways, Kristen, just like reading a magazine the whole time. I'm like, huh, the bowl's coming up. You gotta look at the... She could care less. She was just like reading.
1:35:42 Speaker 02 Really? I just have one funny story to share with you. When I just joined Mercedes-Benz for DTM, we'd done pre-season testing, we'd done the first race, and then I got told to go to Nürburgring. And I was a young Scottish girl that really only in single seaters had driven nationally in the UK. So Bernd Schneider, who was like the king of DTM, he's like, oh, let's go and do a lap of the Nürburgring. And I'm like, what's the Nürburgring? He's like, come with me. Oh, boy. Yeah, okay. I'm getting the C63. The barrier goes up and he takes off and I'm like, oh. And because I didn't know what it was in the corners, this is a never-ending racing track.
1:36:12 Dax Shepard? It's like a 12.8 mile lap and there's every different surface. You're almost on cobblestone at one point. You're in a cement bowl, then you're on asphalt, then you're in the woods.
1:36:21 Speaker 02 Incredible.
1:36:22 Dax Shepard? Then if it starts raining, things get really exciting, which happened to us. Okay, I adore you. Thank you.
1:36:28 Speaker 02 Thank you both so much. We hope you enjoyed this episode. Unfortunately, they made some mistakes.
1:36:39 Dax Shepard? Well, I don't like time again. Why? Because that was so sad and sweet. That made you miss the time that's gone by?
1:36:50 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:36:52 Dax Shepard? Should we play the audio of that?
1:36:53 Speaker 01 Ah, if you want.
1:36:54 Dax Shepard? I don't know if it's good enough audio. You gotta see the face.
1:36:57 Speaker 01 The faces.
1:36:58 Dax Shepard? She looks like a mix between Rumpelstiltskin and Throw Mama from the Train.
1:37:03 Speaker 01 Yeah, Dax, okay, Dax found an old video of Delta.
1:37:06 Dax Shepard? Yeah, and she's being interviewed for the quote documentary that Lily's making.
1:37:12 Speaker 01 I wish we could show it. We can't.
1:37:14 Dax Shepard? I know.
1:37:15 Speaker 01 God.
1:37:16 Dax Shepard? You know, Delta just said to me the other day, if there's ever a way I could be on the fact check again. I was like, I miss you on the fact check so much.
1:37:22 Speaker 01 I know. We can put a bag over her head.
1:37:26 Dax Shepard? Yeah, that's.
1:37:26 Speaker 05 So, Delta, um, why don't you tell us what your favorite thing to do is? My favorite thing to do is play basketball.
1:37:34 Dax Shepard? She's never played basketball.
1:37:36 Speaker 05 What, um, is your, what are your talents?
1:37:40 Dax Shepard? Multiple.
1:37:42 Speaker 05 My talent is I try to be like Lincoln, because Lincoln does good stuff. Aw, that's sweet. That's what I'm trying to do.
1:37:58 Speaker 01 It's too much to handle.
1:38:01 Dax Shepard? Rethinks, Lily says, what are your talents? And she says, my talents are, my talent is, she switches it to singular.
1:38:12 Speaker 01 So good.
1:38:15 Speaker 01 Be like Lincoln, because Lincoln does good stuff.
1:38:21 Dax Shepard? Yeah, I guess it's heartbreaking, but it's, but they got for videos.
1:38:25 Speaker 01 I know.
1:38:26 Dax Shepard? Like, there's no video of me doing anything.
1:38:29 Speaker 01 Neither.
1:38:29 Dax Shepard? None of you? You guys had probably camcorders, right?
1:38:33 Speaker 01 We had those big cam, um, camcorders and, you know, where you put the tape in. So there were some tapes, but they're all gone.
1:38:40 Dax Shepard? They haven't been digitized?
1:38:42 Speaker 01 Uh-uh.
1:38:42 Dax Shepard? That feels like something your mom would have done in her retirement, is digitize the VHS. She needs to call Block Box.
1:38:50 Speaker 01 Yeah, oh, yeah.
1:38:52 Dax Shepard? Our old safelocks, yeah. What is it, Rob? I'm trying to look it up. Oh, Jesus.
1:38:57 Speaker 01 No one.
1:38:57 Dax Shepard? Well, I feel less bad. Ain't him, Rob, doesn't know something?
1:38:59 Speaker 01 It was called like.
1:39:01 Dax Shepard? Safe Lock.
1:39:02 Speaker 01 No.
1:39:03 Dax Shepard? Legacy box.
1:39:04 Speaker 01 Legacy box.
1:39:06 Dax Shepard? Are they still with us? Uh, they're, they're alive, yeah. Oh, great. I don't know if they're with us, though. You should yell to your mom, "Make our digitize our stuff, mom, make me a milkshake."
1:39:16 Speaker 01 Yeah, I want a sandwich.
1:39:17 Dax Shepard? I want a sandwich, too, and digitize everything.
1:39:21 Speaker 01 She should.
1:39:22 Dax Shepard? She really should.
1:39:23 Speaker 01 Yeah. But also, it might be like, lackluster. Back then, like, I can't, I bet it was a mess. There would never have been a two-camera, like, it would have been like a
1:39:35 Dax Shepard? You in the background.
1:39:36 Speaker 01 fifth grade, some singing or so, you know, something like that.
1:39:39 Dax Shepard? In a van.
1:39:39 Speaker 01 In a van.
1:39:40 Dax Shepard? There wasn't just random candid B-roll being shot like it is now.
1:39:44 Speaker 01 I don't think so.
1:39:45 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
1:39:45 Speaker 01 But this is a ding ding ding, because time is sad, as we know.
1:39:49 Dax Shepard? Uh huh.
1:39:50 Speaker 01 The passage of time.
1:39:51 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
1:39:51 Speaker 01 And, um...
1:39:52 Dax Shepard? Father time.
1:39:54 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:39:54 Dax Shepard? Mother nature, father time.
1:39:56 Speaker 01 It is a father, because he's just so mean.
1:39:58 Dax Shepard? He's strict.
1:39:59 Speaker 01 Yeah, he's strict.
1:40:00 Dax Shepard? His word is final.
1:40:02 Speaker 01 He won't lay up, like, he won't just, like, give us a break.
1:40:05 Dax Shepard? No, his, his word is unwavering. When he says the time has passed, it has passed. There's no going back. I know. Yeah, yeah.
1:40:12 Speaker 01 So rude.
1:40:13 Dax Shepard? Rigid, rigid.
1:40:14 Speaker 01 Very rigid.
1:40:15 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
1:40:15 Speaker 01 Stuck in his ways.
1:40:16 Dax Shepard? But I think it gives our life its meaning. Without it, what's the meaning? I have a rec.
1:40:23 Speaker 01 Oh, let's hear it.
1:40:23 Dax Shepard? And a curiosity. I hope you are. Are you watching Widows Bay?
1:40:28 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah, I think we, I think I told, did I not tell you?
1:40:30 Dax Shepard? No.
1:40:31 Speaker 01 Yes, I am. But, okay, so pin in that, that.
1:40:34 Dax Shepard? Okay.
1:40:34 Speaker 01 Um, well, pin in whichever, I guess. Which one do we want to move forward with? We can come back to the other one. Um, Widows Bay, yes, I'm watching, I'm not caught up.
1:40:46 Dax Shepard? Okay, no spoilers.
1:40:47 Speaker 01 So no spoilers.
1:40:48 Dax Shepard? Everyone's dead.
1:40:48 Speaker 01 Great. Um, it's like a comedy horror show.
1:40:53 Dax Shepard? Oh, the comedy is comedy, you know?
1:40:55 Speaker 01 Well, yes.
1:40:56 Dax Shepard? So funny.
1:40:57 Speaker 01 Well, it's Katie Dippold, who is so funny. She, I used to watch her at UCB in the, in my heyday, all the time. She was, she was a big star there.
1:41:08 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
1:41:09 Speaker 01 And she created it and she is so funny. She wrote for Parks and Rec and she's just like, I think she's written some stuff for that Paul Feig has directed. She's just brilliant. And so when I saw that it was her, it's like, oh, I gotta watch this. Um, and it's fantastic.
1:41:28 Dax Shepard? Well, what I was so pumped about is Nancy, um, from Bless This Mess. Do you remember Nancy on Bless This Mess? She works at the museum, at the, um, Widows Bay Museum. If you've seen the first episode, you saw her.
1:41:43 Speaker 01 The first, yeah.
1:41:44 Dax Shepard? They go to the museum and it's the history of the island. And what's so funny is of course, witch burning is a real black mark on Salem. But when she's walking this reporter through the museum, they get to this bloody outfit from a burned witch. And she said, well, here's a source of great pride for us. We found him. We burned him.
1:42:08 Dax Shepard? Her delivery of, we found him.
1:42:10 Speaker 01 Wait, so she was in Bless This Mess?
1:42:11 Dax Shepard? Yeah, she was one of our neighbors. And she was so, I loved her so much. She was so fun. She knitted me like a couple of, um, scarves and stuff. She was a knitter.
1:42:20 Speaker 01 That's so cute. Wait, who's the actress?
1:42:24 Dax Shepard? Nancy Lenahan.
1:42:25 Speaker 01 Oh, cool.
1:42:26 Dax Shepard? And she's so good.
1:42:27 Speaker 01 Well, it's also shot, a lot of it's directed by, um,
1:42:32 Dax Shepard? Hero.
1:42:33 Speaker 01 Yeah, who did a lot of Atlanta.
1:42:35 Dax Shepard? Yes.
1:42:36 Speaker 01 So it's just, it's brilliant.
1:42:37 Dax Shepard? Power, powerhouse crew.
1:42:39 Speaker 01 Yes.
1:42:40 Dax Shepard? Can't recommend it enough. It's so silly.
1:42:42 Speaker 01 It is, but it's also getting skilly. And it's Matthew Reese, one of our faves.
1:42:47 Dax Shepard? Oh, we love him.
1:42:48 Speaker 01 So good. He's so, so good.
1:42:49 Dax Shepard? A Movable Feast. That's the name of his boat in, in, in Manhattan.
1:42:54 Speaker 01 Oh my God. Check that episode out in the archives.
1:42:58 Dax Shepard? Give it a listen. He's so charming. He was, he was COVID though. He wasn't in person.
1:43:05 Speaker 01 Was he?
1:43:06 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
1:43:07 Speaker 01 God, that's crazy.
1:43:09 Dax Shepard? I wanna sit with him.
1:43:10 Speaker 01 Okay, so back to what I was gonna say about time.
1:43:15 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
1:43:15 Speaker 01 Okay, so yesterday, I can say this because it's been announced. Um, Elizabeth came over because she's moving. Her and Andy are moving to France for a whole year.
1:43:30 Speaker 01 Which is-
1:43:31 Dax Shepard? What's the opposite of wee wee? No, no.
1:43:33 Speaker 01 No, no.
1:43:34 Dax Shepard? No, no, not a wee wee.
1:43:36 Speaker 01 I know, and like it's gonna be great for them. They're gonna have so much fun and it's a beautiful thing to do and I'm very happy.
1:43:42 Dax Shepard? Will they be podcasting from France?
1:43:43 Speaker 01 They will be.
1:43:44 Dax Shepard? Okay.
1:43:45 Speaker 01 So that's so fun.
1:43:46 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
1:43:46 Speaker 01 And like, be very fun to listen along on their adventures. You know, that'll be great, but I hate it, you know, I really hate it. But then it's, you know, Elizabeth is kind, is, is a crier.
1:44:02 Dax Shepard? Okay.
1:44:03 Speaker 01 Her tears come easy.
1:44:05 Dax Shepard? Okay.
1:44:05 Speaker 01 And, you know, she like gets out of the car and she's like already like, I didn't bring, I didn't wear mascara like on purpose. I know I'm gonna cry.
1:44:15 Dax Shepard? This is to tell you that they're moving?
1:44:17 Speaker 01 No, like it's just the last time I'll see her.
1:44:19 Dax Shepard? Wait, they're moving tonight?
1:44:21 Speaker 01 I'll, I'll leave on Friday and then they leave like a couple, they leave like a week later while all, while I'm gone. Oh yeah, I should say, so this is the last time I'm gonna see her before they leave.
1:44:32 Dax Shepard? Until you go visit in France. Where are they moving in France?
1:44:34 Speaker 01 Bordeaux.
1:44:35 Dax Shepard? What, tell me about Bordeaux, that's the wine country, I guess, I don't know.
1:44:39 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's like there's wine there and-
1:44:41 Dax Shepard? Is it on a river? Should be.
1:44:42 Speaker 01 I don't know much about it. I've never been.
1:44:44 Dax Shepard? How did they pick that place?
1:44:46 Speaker 01 Okay.
1:44:46 Dax Shepard? They just wanna be so close to the wine?
1:44:48 Speaker 01 No, they don't even really drink much. So they went last summer, it's always been a dream of Elizabeth's to live in France. So last summer, they went to just-
1:44:58 Dax Shepard? Test the water?
1:44:59 Speaker 01 Yeah, they went to test the waters and try it out. And they, they loved it, but they had to come home a little earlier than expected because unfortunately Andy's father passed away. So they, they, they came home, they loved it, but I didn't think they loved it that much.
1:45:14 Dax Shepard? Right.
1:45:14 Speaker 01 Like, I wasn't like, oh, like there's unfinished business.
1:45:18 Dax Shepard? Everywhere I'm at on vacation, I'm certain I wanna live there for a year. I mean, everywhere I go, virtually.
1:45:24 Speaker 01 I know. So she, so I didn't expect this really. I thought they kinda got it out of their system last summer.
1:45:32 Dax Shepard? Mm-hmm.
1:45:32 Speaker 01 Or like, maybe they go back for another summer break, but like, living for a whole year, I didn't expect it. Um, and- So anyway, she came over and she was, she was like, I'm gonna cry, you know, just, and I was like, oh.
1:45:46 Dax Shepard? I've come here to cry.
1:45:47 Speaker 01 Yeah. And there was another friend there, Sophia, who's kind of a new friend.
1:45:52 Dax Shepard? Uh huh.
1:45:53 Speaker 01 So it was good. I was like, well, Sophia's here. She'll like buffer. And, and Elizabeth was like, you know, she's kind of like, well, I don't, that's not gonna stop me. And also like, I don't need that.
1:46:04 Dax Shepard? Yeah, let's go.
1:46:05 Speaker 01 Right. And so, you know, we talked a lot and then.
1:46:09 Dax Shepard? Does it make you nervous that she's gonna cry because you feel obligated to cry in return?
1:46:14 Speaker 01 So, okay, this is what we started talking about because I was like.
1:46:17 Dax Shepard? You felt pressure.
1:46:19 Speaker 01 Well, I think Elizabeth was like, you better cry.
1:46:22 Dax Shepard? Oh, well, that, that's direct pressure. That's not even in your head.
1:46:25 Speaker 01 At one point, she said that. And I was like, I'm not gonna. I said, I said, I'm, I'm not going to.
1:46:32 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
1:46:33 Speaker 01 And then, and Sophia was like, you better cry for her. And I was like, oh my God, oh my God.
1:46:38 Dax Shepard? A lot of pressure.
1:46:39 Speaker 01 Oh, no, oh, no. And I, you know, I didn't.
1:46:42 Dax Shepard? Yeah, sure. I knew that.
1:46:43 Speaker 01 I didn't the whole, I didn't. And, and she, you know, at the end.
1:46:47 Dax Shepard? In 10 years, I think I've seen you cry like three or four times.
1:46:51 Speaker 01 You have seen me cry, like disproportionately.
1:46:57 Dax Shepard? Mm hmm.
1:46:58 Speaker 01 Than most people.
1:46:59 Dax Shepard? Right.
1:47:00 Speaker 01 Um, and even still, yes, not that often.
1:47:03 Dax Shepard? Correct, yeah.
1:47:04 Speaker 01 Anyway, so I didn't cry at all. And then, you know, we were hugging by and I still wasn't crying and.
1:47:11 Dax Shepard? Were you trying to make yourself, could you feel yourself like focusing on your eyes and stuff?
1:47:16 Speaker 01 A little, a little. She was like, wow, not even, not even a little, not even a little water in there.
1:47:22 Dax Shepard? Not even a well up.
1:47:23 Speaker 01 Yeah. And I was like, well, it's, it's there, it's there. It's on the inside, you know? And it's a ding ding ding to the graduation, Delta's graduation, where everyone was crying and I wasn't crying.
1:47:37 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
1:47:37 Speaker 01 And everyone, um, and I was like, some people are performing here, but really they weren't, you know, they just cry and I.
1:47:44 Dax Shepard? You were just self conscious. Muches that you weren't.
1:47:46 Speaker 01 Yeah, of course, yeah. And I, I, but I was sad.
1:47:51 Dax Shepard? Mm hmm.
1:47:51 Speaker 01 At the graduation and I was sad last night.
1:47:54 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
1:47:55 Speaker 01 But I have a problem.
1:47:56 Dax Shepard? Look, I know this very well. I'm like, you know, deaths and people getting arrested and friends dying. And yeah, I feel the pressure of someone like waiting for me to have this expected.
1:48:10 Speaker 01 Reaction.
1:48:11 Dax Shepard? Yeah, reaction. And then kind of once that occurs to you that you're supposed to, for me, trains off the station. There's no reaching the cry point because you're now self-conscious about not crying.
1:48:23 Speaker 01 Right.
1:48:24 Dax Shepard? And that's just not the frame of mind to cry.
1:48:26 Speaker 01 I know.
1:48:28 Dax Shepard? Like they say, you know, the trick in acting is to try your hardest not to cry.
1:48:31 Speaker 01 Exactly. I love that trick because I can do that.
1:48:34 Dax Shepard? Yeah, yeah.
1:48:35 Speaker 01 Uh, but then, but I'm, I was never good at crying as an actor.
1:48:40 Dax Shepard? I'm caught between wanting to give another recommendation, but also wanting to talk about an actor I saw that was using menthol. And I don't ever want it to be exposed of who. I used menthol in Employee of the Month. I would have felt unethical about doing that, like in Parenthood, but I did not feel unethical about doing it in Employee of the Month.
1:48:58 Speaker 01 Yeah, because it was a funny scene.
1:49:00 Dax Shepard? I had won a, a, a ring competition and, and, and I thought it would be hilarious if I was just like uncontrollably sobbing at this victory.
1:49:08 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:49:09 Dax Shepard? And yeah, I used a lot of it. And my eyes were fucking on fire. And I was supposed to spray more.
1:49:14 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:49:14 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
1:49:15 Speaker 01 Yeah, I, I don't, I don't know. I just don't think I cry when I'm sad.
1:49:23 Dax Shepard? You cry when you're mad.
1:49:24 Speaker 01 I cry when I'm mad and frustrated.
1:49:27 Dax Shepard? Frustrated, frustrated.
1:49:29 Speaker 01 I cry.
1:49:32 Dax Shepard? Wolf.
1:49:33 Speaker 01 No, never. I don't cry wolf.
1:49:35 Dax Shepard? Liz is at the window.
1:49:37 Speaker 01 She was there.
1:49:40 Speaker 01 Oh my God. I might cry right now because I'm being frustrated. I misunderstood.
1:49:45 Dax Shepard? I don't want to frustrate you. Not before the break.
1:49:48 Speaker 01 Yeah. So, yeah, I think I cry when I'm angry and I cry when I'm. Frustrated and I cry when I'm embarrassed, that's
1:49:56 Dax Shepard? Oh, yeah.
1:49:56 Speaker 01 That's common for me.
1:49:57 Dax Shepard? That's the first time I saw you cry.
1:49:58 Speaker 01 That's the first time I told you. When I ran into the window.
1:50:02 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
1:50:02 Speaker 01 Yeah, cause I ran, I went into the car and then I cried.
1:50:04 Dax Shepard? Oh, you held your crying until the car?
1:50:06 Speaker 01 Yeah, I mean, I was walking to the car.
1:50:08 Dax Shepard? Oh.
1:50:09 Speaker 01 So it was probably, it was probably starting immediately, but no one had to see.
1:50:12 Dax Shepard? When you turned back, I thought I saw what was the beginning of a breakdown. I could be wrong.
1:50:20 Dax Shepard? I definitely thought, ooh, like, who cares about banging into the glass? But the look was like, oh, we got, we're gonna have some crying.
1:50:27 Speaker 01 Yeah. Yeah, and the some people-
1:50:31 Dax Shepard? What was the event that night? There was, someone was in town.
1:50:34 Speaker 01 Yes, Bob Murvac was in town.
1:50:35 Dax Shepard? Oh, Bob Murvac.
1:50:36 Speaker 01 And it was the first time I ever met him. It was a long time ago this happened.
1:50:39 Dax Shepard? Yeah, yeah.
1:50:40 Speaker 01 Um, and, uh, some people are quick triggers for me. Like, are quick, like, um, I, I, as I said, I've cried in front of you a fair amount.
1:50:56 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
1:50:56 Speaker 01 I've cried, my parents often can get me to cry.
1:51:02 Dax Shepard? Well, then this is consistent, dads.
1:51:04 Speaker 01 Yeah, I mean, Bill so far hasn't.
1:51:07 Dax Shepard? He hasn't?
1:51:07 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:51:08 Dax Shepard? He will.
1:51:09 Speaker 01 I hope not, I don't wanna cry in front of him.
1:51:11 Dax Shepard? Okay.
1:51:12 Speaker 01 Um, I wanna be like-
1:51:14 Dax Shepard? Will you let him hold you?
1:51:15 Speaker 01 No!
1:51:18 Speaker 01 I don't let my dads hold me, no, no, no, no. Um, yeah, so, so anyway, I just, but I did, she left and I was like, God, like-
1:51:29 Dax Shepard? I need to cry more.
1:51:30 Speaker 01 I can't, I just, I, I wish I did, I wish I had cried then. But it wasn't gonna happen.
1:51:37 Dax Shepard? I don't cry out of sadness. I cry out of my heart being touched, as you know, a lot.
1:51:44 Speaker 01 Yes.
1:51:45 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
1:51:46 Speaker 01 Me too, I think that's more, that's definitely more likely than sadness. Like, if something's just like so overwhelmingly like-
1:51:55 Speaker 01 Sweet or beautiful, like, like life is beautiful.
1:52:00 Dax Shepard? Yeah, yeah.
1:52:00 Speaker 01 I cry at life is beautiful.
1:52:02 Dax Shepard? Oh, that's good.
1:52:02 Speaker 01 Not the movie, I've never seen it, but.
1:52:04 Dax Shepard? Oh, just the beauty of life?
1:52:05 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:52:06 Dax Shepard? Okay.
1:52:06 Speaker 01 Yeah, like sports moment.
1:52:08 Dax Shepard? The last phase, I think, for me to be a complete crier is I have had two or three different moments in the last couple of years where I was so frustrated that I did have the feeling in my body of like, oh, if I could just ball right now, I would feel so much better at the end of this.
1:52:26 Speaker 01 Oh.
1:52:26 Dax Shepard? Or, or sometimes there's like, there'll be the occasion where, again, in my mind, whether this is happening or not doesn't matter, I feel like all three of them are coming at me.
1:52:37 Speaker 01 Hmm.
1:52:37 Dax Shepard? And I am biting my tongue. Yeah, overwhelmed and maybe ganged up on and, and I'm biting my tongue because I don't want to make anything worse. And I do reach a, a point where I'm biting my tongue or I can feel my eyes are going to betray me. Like, I'm gonna start crying out of my anger and frustration.
1:52:56 Speaker 01 You should let yourself because then everyone will stop being mean to you.
1:52:59 Dax Shepard? And be like, oh, maybe we should throttle back.
1:53:01 Speaker 01 Oh, no, he's like crying.
1:53:04 Dax Shepard? What's so funny is I think half the time they'd have no idea because they, they don't know necessarily when I'm like fighting my hardest not to get involved or to say something. That's really hard for me.
1:53:15 Speaker 01 Do you ever just decide to walk away?
1:53:18 Dax Shepard? Oh, God, yeah. I go upstairs, I quote, go upstairs for something fucking all the time.
1:53:23 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah.
1:53:24 Dax Shepard? As I think it's a real patented dad move, you know?
1:53:28 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's good to go upstairs as a dad.
1:53:32 Dax Shepard? Go out to the garage. I always have to go out to the garage and just do one thing and then I get, like, I can return.
1:53:38 Speaker 01 Yeah, as soon as you need a minute.
1:53:40 Dax Shepard? I like how generic I am. Some part of me, I like that I'm like doing what all dads do. And then I'm, you know, it makes me feel like I grew up.
1:53:49 Speaker 01 Was your like quintessential image of a dad?
1:53:53 Dax Shepard? Well, that's what I was gonna say. I've never seen, I never saw my father parent in a relationship.
1:53:59 Speaker 01 Mm-hmm.
1:54:00 Dax Shepard? I only saw him operate as a lone wolf and my mom. And then my stepdads, they didn't hold their tongue, you know, they, they, they yelled all the time and screamed and.
1:54:11 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:54:11 Dax Shepard? Uh, swore and, and, and said really nasty character assassinations of us a lot.
1:54:20 Dax Shepard? But I've never seen the healthy version where it's like, oh yeah, dad's going up to the garage to check on, you know, a blank.
1:54:27 Speaker 01 Right.
1:54:27 Dax Shepard? And now he's back and he's now he's calm. You know, like, I don't know.
1:54:31 Speaker 01 Interesting.
1:54:32 Dax Shepard? But I guess I've seen it in movies and in TV shows and I've seen it maybe in other people's family. And I just know I'm a part of like a great tradition.
1:54:39 Speaker 01 When I think of dads, the first image I think of is in a store, a dad just sitting in whatever seat there is, makeshift seat. There's always a dad sitting. Yeah, they're just sitting there waiting for everyone else to be, the mom and the daughter to be done shopping. I mean, we would all go to the outlet mall.
1:55:01 Dax Shepard? How could he do it?
1:55:02 Speaker 01 I'm shocked. He would, he wants to do it too. And then he's not go, most of the time he's not even going in any store. She's just waiting outside the store while we go in store after store.
1:55:11 Dax Shepard? Shopping is miserable.
1:55:12 Speaker 01 But then why does he want to go?
1:55:14 Dax Shepard? I don't know, to be a good, to be a good dad.
1:55:16 Speaker 01 To spend time.
1:55:17 Dax Shepard? That's right. Sitting and getting exhausted in, in stores.
1:55:20 Speaker 01 And it's so hot out.
1:55:22 Dax Shepard? The saved money disappear.
1:55:24 Speaker 01 Exactly. And he's just sweating out there. It's like actually so sweet that he's just like going.
1:55:30 Dax Shepard? Real mensch, yeah.
1:55:31 Speaker 01 Just going to these stores for no reason.
1:55:33 Dax Shepard? Getting through it.
1:55:34 Speaker 01 And even, he's never like, let's go. Like, he never says, let's go.
1:55:38 Dax Shepard? He's thinking it over and over again and he's resisting. I wonder if he's ever had a solemn tear you missed? Like, and he's sitting in that chair. It's just, it's just like, he wants to go like, oh god, no, like, let's leave, please, let's leave. But then he doesn't. He already feels that, that complete angst of being stalked somewhere.
1:55:58 Speaker 01 He doesn't. That's the thing about him. He's really strange.
1:56:01 Dax Shepard? He's a better man than I am. Yeah.
1:56:03 Speaker 01 Well, maybe it's his Indian-ness. I don't know, but like, it's pretty wild. He just like really.
1:56:09 Dax Shepard? He'll spend seven hours out with you guys? And he doesn't buy one thing, right? He doesn't pick anything up. Fuck that. That's like being in an eight hour long fucking cricket match. Nothing's happening.
1:56:20 Speaker 01 He likes cricket.
1:56:21 Dax Shepard? Maybe that's what, that's, maybe that's what.
1:56:23 Speaker 01 Well, he played.
1:56:23 Dax Shepard? Formatted him to be so tolerant of boredom.
1:56:26 Speaker 01 I think they are just, I think Indian, well, I shouldn't say, I don't know. I just think, well, maybe Indian Med from Kerala. They just like know to go along with the women.
1:56:40 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
1:56:41 Speaker 01 And they're like, it's fine. Like, it's fine. Just let them do.
1:56:44 Dax Shepard? I guess my question is. Why would, why, yes, why doesn't, why would any of the women want us there?
1:56:51 Speaker 01 I think he wants to be nearby.
1:56:54 Dax Shepard? Cause he only sees you on the weekends and you guys wanna spend the whole weekend shopping.
1:56:57 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:57:00 Speaker 01 Although now when I go home, um, he doesn't really come with us. Like if we go to TJ Maxx, he doesn't come.
1:57:06 Dax Shepard? Yeah, good.
1:57:07 Speaker 01 He just meets us at dinner or whatever.
1:57:09 Dax Shepard? Yes.
1:57:09 Speaker 01 It's better, it's better.
1:57:10 Dax Shepard? Do the lunches, drive two cars. He can stop at Home Depot.
1:57:14 Speaker 01 It's better. But, uh, yeah.
1:57:16 Dax Shepard? Can you imagine going to Home Depot with him for seven hours?
1:57:19 Speaker 01 No, I would, I just, I would never do that.
1:57:21 Dax Shepard? Yeah. And think about how much pain.
1:57:23 Speaker 01 I did have to do that as a kid. It felt like seven hours, probably 20 minutes.
1:57:25 Dax Shepard? Yeah, 20 minutes. Cause that's how guys shop. They like already know what they want before they walk in.
1:57:29 Speaker 01 I hated, I hated it.
1:57:31 Dax Shepard? No, imagine like really put yourself in a situation where you were at Home Depot for seven hours, three and a half movies.
1:57:38 Speaker 01 Well, he must not hate it or he wouldn't come.
1:57:41 Dax Shepard? Or he's just like, he's like a monk. He, he can like just ignore the pain.
1:57:46 Speaker 01 He can, I do think like really just like, he just like doesn't complain about anything.
1:57:52 Dax Shepard? Yeah, it's so nice. Yeah, it's hot. It's attractive.
1:57:55 Speaker 01 I guess like.
1:57:56 Dax Shepard? That's what you should be as a guy. No complaining. That's right. My therapist said to me, you should never say, what about me? That's not your domain. And I like, that's right.
1:58:10 Speaker 01 Well, no, you're still a person. But he doesn't, I've never heard him say that.
1:58:15 Dax Shepard? Yeah, it's not, you can do that. You are free to do that. And then there are certain outcomes of that. And that's, I don't want that outcome.
1:58:24 Speaker 01 Yeah, but you also don't want resentment. You don't.
1:58:27 Dax Shepard? Well, I'm not gonna get resented for.
1:58:28 Speaker 01 But some people could, no, no, no. You could build a resentment. Like, nobody's thinking about me. No one's even noticing me. No one cares what I think.
1:58:35 Dax Shepard? Well, you're not allowed to do that either, cause that's not grown up behavior either.
1:58:38 Speaker 01 Right. That's gonna be hard for some people.
1:58:41 Dax Shepard? Yeah, but like in pursuit of being a man, the definition my therapist and I have, for me as a man,
1:58:48 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:58:49 Dax Shepard? includes shutting the fuck up, no resentments, no pity party, no what about me? That's the strength that you're supposed to exude as a man. You're supposed to bring strength to this. And that's, we think that's just screaming and shoving other men. No, no. The strength is.
1:59:05 Speaker 01 Restraint.
1:59:06 Dax Shepard? The restraint.
1:59:07 Speaker 01 Yeah. Oh, this is good because it's.
1:59:10 Dax Shepard? Oh, my gosh.
1:59:11 Speaker 01 It's Father's Day.
1:59:13 Dax Shepard? Is it this Sunday?
1:59:14 Speaker 01 Yeah. It is, yes.
1:59:16 Dax Shepard? Rob, are you being spoiled? You're traveling too.
1:59:18 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:59:19 Dax Shepard? Doesn't it, don't you feel like traveling nullifies the, the event?
1:59:22 Speaker 01 Yeah, I am, my birthday always is right on it too, right by it.
1:59:26 Dax Shepard? Oh, so you get triple screwed.
1:59:28 Speaker 01 I have Saturday, Sunday.
1:59:30 Dax Shepard? Okay.
1:59:31 Speaker 01 What would you want to do this year?
1:59:33 Dax Shepard? Well, I don't know if it was last year or the year before, but I hosted a Father's Day party and it was tournaments. It was a volleyball tournament.
1:59:40 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:59:41 Dax Shepard? A pickleball tournament.
1:59:43 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:59:43 Dax Shepard? And sideline shoulder massages.
1:59:46 Speaker 01 That's nice.
1:59:47 Dax Shepard? And food. And it was really quite fun. Yeah.
1:59:52 Speaker 01 I didn't know about sideline.
1:59:53 Dax Shepard? You didn't know about the food?
1:59:56 Dax Shepard? Yeah. When you weren't playing pickleball, you were getting a shoulder massage.
2:00:00 Speaker 01 That's cool.
2:00:01 Dax Shepard? Right?
2:00:02 Speaker 01 I want one.
2:00:03 Dax Shepard? Because for Mother's Day, I bring in all these people.
2:00:05 Speaker 01 You do, yes.
2:00:05 Dax Shepard? And so we're not going to get pedicures and manicures, although we could and they're fun.
2:00:10 Speaker 01 Mm-hmm, they are fun.
2:00:12 Dax Shepard? I did, um.
2:00:12 Speaker 01 And you kind of need one.
2:00:14 Dax Shepard? I need one?
2:00:15 Speaker 01 Well, you always complain about your toes. You're always complaining about them.
2:00:19 Dax Shepard? I don't even know if I would, in good conscience, let someone touch my toes.
2:00:23 Speaker 01 They probably want to. They're like, you know what? This is like Everest, you know, like they really, they want at them and they want to see what they can do.
2:00:31 Dax Shepard? Remember I spoke about, we could look this up now.
2:00:34 Speaker 01 Uh-huh.
2:00:35 Dax Shepard? Um, Rob, do you, can you control the TV?
2:00:39 Speaker 01 Yep, sure can.
2:00:41 Dax Shepard? Will you look up Malala and Zarna Garg?
2:00:46 Speaker 01 Oh, Zarna, she's very funny.
2:00:48 Dax Shepard? Do you know her?
2:00:49 Speaker 01 Mm-hmm.
2:00:49 Dax Shepard? Remember I was telling you about the video?
2:00:51 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:00:52 Dax Shepard? Well, someone was nice enough to tell me what video I was watching.
2:00:57 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah.
2:00:58 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
2:00:58 Speaker 01 That's cool. Yeah, she's very funny. She's, people really love her.
2:01:02 Dax Shepard? We might be able to connect it to Dax's Mac Studio.
2:01:06 Speaker 01 What if porn just popped up?
2:01:08 Dax Shepard? Oh, I'd love it. A man and a horse.
2:01:10 Speaker 01 That's your thing these days?
2:01:12 Dax Shepard? That's my thing, yeah.
2:01:13 Speaker 01 Nice.
2:01:13 Dax Shepard? I'm watching exclusively men and horses. But only kissing.
2:01:18 Speaker 01 Oh, you draw the line?
2:01:19 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
2:01:20 Speaker 01 Oh, wow. You gotta figure out how to get this audio to go through there, though. Oh, boy. This is hard.
2:01:25 Dax Shepard? What happens if you hit play?
2:01:26 Speaker 01 Let's find out.
2:01:27 Dax Shepard? Yeah, no audio.
2:01:28 Speaker 01 It doesn't.
2:01:29 Dax Shepard? Yeah. All right, never mind.
2:01:31 Speaker 01 Okay, we're not as techie as we appear to be.
2:01:34 Dax Shepard? I guess I could have just looked it up on my. Phone it would have been a lot easier.
2:01:37 Speaker 01 So Malala, I'm the world's leading almost therapist. Whatever your problem is, I can solve it. Just tell me what it is. Let's go. When I was fifteen, I was shot by the Taliban in Afghanistan. Okay, that happens. And then I moved to a different country in India for my surgeries. Hmm, okay, that sounds fun. That sounds so fun. Yeah, new culture, new environment. I joined the school. Uh, but I couldn't make any friends. I was really lonely. Oh, because you were, you were the problem. So by the end of my school time, I had only made one friend. You one friend, huh? That's sad, yeah. Sad for the friend who was stuck with you. And I was joining college at Oxford. Mm-hmm. I said, I'm gonna make as many friends as possible. Oh, Oxford? You went to Oxford?
2:02:22 Speaker 01 Yeah. What happened? You didn't, you didn't get into Cambridge? That was my dream place to go to. Oh, see, right there, we just identified the first problem. You have dreams. Why not? You know, I'm, I'm really sorry to just bring this up, but you sound like you complain a lot. You're coming across a little whiny about the old girls need to be this and that situation. Like you got shot once, you're fine. The other side of your face looking great, as far as I can tell. Everything is fine. You're welcome. The other side of your face.
2:02:55 Dax Shepard? Thank you. You're welcome.
2:02:58 Dax Shepard? So you got shot in the face?
2:03:01 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:03:01 Dax Shepard? I love that accent. It's so pleasing.
2:03:05 Speaker 01 It's very...
2:03:06 Dax Shepard? Do you like it or does it make you nervous?
2:03:07 Speaker 01 I mean, it makes me nervous, obviously.
2:03:09 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
2:03:09 Speaker 01 It makes me nervous when, when you listen to it, that like you won't be able to help yourself.
2:03:14 Dax Shepard? To do it. There's something so pleasing and melodic about it.
2:03:17 Speaker 01 It, I mean, it's very...
2:03:19 Dax Shepard? Malala-tic.
2:03:21 Speaker 01 It is melodic. It's sing-songy. That's the, I, I think is maybe a pejorative way of saying it, maybe?
2:03:28 Dax Shepard? No, but it is. It's...
2:03:29 Speaker 01 But it's sing-songy. It has like a real...
2:03:32 Dax Shepard? That's as close. That's like as safe as I can.
2:03:39 Speaker 01 You want me to, it's Father's Day. You want me to let you do it? Go ahead.
2:03:43 Dax Shepard? No, it's not appropriate.
2:03:44 Speaker 01 You wanna see me cry?
2:03:44 Dax Shepard? No, no, no. That's not my Father's Day wish.
2:03:48 Speaker 01 What is?
2:03:48 Dax Shepard? Horse porn.
2:03:49 Speaker 01 Great. We can make that happen.
2:03:52 Dax Shepard? Really passionate kissing between a man and a horse.
2:03:58 Speaker 01 Oh my god, alright, let's do some facts.
2:04:03 Speaker 03 Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.
2:04:15 Speaker 01 Doozy Wolf.
2:04:18 Dax Shepard? I love her.
2:04:19 Speaker 01 What a stud. What a gorgeous.
2:04:23 Dax Shepard? He got her.
2:04:24 Speaker 01 Awesome gal.
2:04:24 Dax Shepard? Good job, Toto.
2:04:26 Speaker 01 They're such a cool couple.
2:04:27 Dax Shepard? They are.
2:04:28 Speaker 01 Really intimidatingly cool.
2:04:30 Dax Shepard? You've seen them in their 300 SL Mercedes, that old ass Mercedes.
2:04:33 Speaker 01 The one that he said he would take me in?
2:04:34 Dax Shepard? Yeah, they drive around Monaco in it, and they're always dressed to the nines.
2:04:37 Speaker 01 What color is it?
2:04:38 Dax Shepard? Silver.
2:04:38 Speaker 01 The one we saw on Instagram that time was green.
2:04:41 Dax Shepard? Yeah, that was like a, I won't bore you, a resto mod version of them. So they were free to make it any color they want. They had already altered it.
2:04:49 Speaker 01 Now they can't?
2:04:51 Dax Shepard? Well, no, if you have a mint condition, um, unaltered, you don't want to change the paint color.
2:04:57 Speaker 01 Oh.
2:04:57 Dax Shepard? You would be degrading the value.
2:04:59 Speaker 01 So none were ever made green originally?
2:05:00 Dax Shepard? Correct, that was, and nor, they had put like a cool engine in it and bigger, you know, they did what I do to cars.
2:05:06 Speaker 01 Right. So am I supposed to want an original or a souped up one?
2:05:11 Dax Shepard? It's a tricky one, because those cars, I'm ballparking, but I think a Goldwing 300, that's gotta be like a three to five million dollar car, I think.
2:05:22 Dax Shepard? And if you chopped it all up and put all this cool stuff in it, it would probably be worth like eight hundred thousand. So you would be losing two and a half million dollars of the value to have the car you wanted.
2:05:33 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:05:33 Dax Shepard? Like, if I take my Lincoln, it's not gonna, it wasn't worth a lot of money before I did all that shit to it.
2:05:39 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:05:39 Dax Shepard? None of my cars.
2:05:40 Speaker 01 But now it's worth more, it feels like. Oh, you're saying because it wasn't worth a lot?
2:05:44 Dax Shepard? Exactly. Because you're not getting it to be completely pristine.
2:05:48 Speaker 01 Right.
2:05:48 Dax Shepard? And original.
2:05:49 Speaker 01 Well, this is interesting, because I've never been in this position, normal, normally I'm on the other side of this, where I like, don't care about the value, like, I want to like what I'm driving in, and what it looks like.
2:06:04 Dax Shepard? That's how I feel.
2:06:05 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:06:05 Dax Shepard? That's why I don't get those kind of cars.
2:06:07 Speaker 01 Right.
2:06:08 Dax Shepard? I would never want to get a good kind of car that I'm making it less valuable by making it better.
2:06:15 Dax Shepard? I'd rather just buy.
2:06:16 Speaker 01 So if like Toto and Suzie buy me one.
2:06:18 Dax Shepard? Uh huh.
2:06:19 Speaker 01 And then I have you soup it up.
2:06:22 Dax Shepard? Uh huh.
2:06:22 Speaker 01 They'll probably be mad about that.
2:06:24 Dax Shepard? They will be bummed. Yeah, that you made a couple million dollars disappear.
2:06:28 Speaker 01 Okay, now I'm in a pickle. Okay. Anyway, she was amazing.
2:06:33 Dax Shepard? She was.
2:06:35 Speaker 01 She was amazing.
2:06:35 Dax Shepard? Sounds like a fun family, too.
2:06:37 Speaker 01 I know.
2:06:38 Dax Shepard? And remember she was talking about Isle of Man TT?
2:06:41 Speaker 01 Yes.
2:06:42 Dax Shepard? That started last weekend.
2:06:44 Speaker 01 Did you watch any?
2:06:45 Dax Shepard? Brad was there.
2:06:46 Speaker 01 Oh.
2:06:47 Dax Shepard? And Channing.
2:06:47 Speaker 01 Oh.
2:06:48 Dax Shepard? And they were filming.
2:06:50 Speaker 01 No.
2:06:51 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
2:06:51 Speaker 01 For their new thing.
2:06:52 Dax Shepard? They're making a movie about, I don't know if it's both of them, but I think Channing was filming something for a movie about Isle of Man.
2:07:00 Speaker 01 Oh my God. I wonder if it's a doc or a... Wow.
2:07:05 Dax Shepard? I doubt it'd be a doc with Channing in it. What would be the point, right?
2:07:08 Speaker 01 Oh, he was starring. I thought you meant like he was like directing it.
2:07:11 Dax Shepard? No, he was on a motorcycle in leathers.
2:07:13 Speaker 01 Oh.
2:07:14 Dax Shepard? I'm presuming filming him, yeah.
2:07:16 Speaker 01 Wow.
2:07:17 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
2:07:17 Speaker 01 Cool. Okay, some facts. The Topo Chico shortage.
2:07:22 Dax Shepard? Mm hmm.
2:07:24 Speaker 01 Yikes.
2:07:25 Dax Shepard? Crisis.
2:07:25 Speaker 01 Yeah. Okay, a nationwide shortage of Topo Chico original mineral water is affecting store shelves and bars in the US. Coca-Cola suspended production of its flagship sparkling water at its Monterrey, Mexico facility to perform well stabilization and facility upgrades. Supplies are expected to remain extremely limited through late 2026.
2:07:46 Dax Shepard? Yeah, this is a big boy. I feel like the well went dry. You're not telling us.
2:07:51 Speaker 01 I know. CNN said America's running out of Topo Chico mineral water.
2:07:56 Dax Shepard? Oh, we love Topo Chico.
2:07:58 Speaker 01 I know. Um.
2:08:00 Dax Shepard? We have bottles in that fridge just accruing value.
2:08:03 Speaker 01 What are we gonna do when they're, I know.
2:08:04 Dax Shepard? We're gonna auction them. Remember people paid an insane amount of money for original Coke?
2:08:08 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah.
2:08:09 Dax Shepard? When they switched to new Coke, people were spending like preposterous amounts of money on a twelve pack.
2:08:14 Speaker 01 This is just like liberty.
2:08:15 Dax Shepard? It is.
2:08:16 Speaker 01 Oh, my God.
2:08:17 Dax Shepard? And we're sitting on a stockpile.
2:08:18 Speaker 01 How many do we have?
2:08:19 Dax Shepard? Six or eight? Two. Two or three? We're down to two.
2:08:22 Speaker 01 Oh, no, not even one for each of us. Fuck.
2:08:26 Dax Shepard? No, no, no.
2:08:27 Speaker 01 This is horrible news. Okay, um, oh, if you drink sparkling water, do you not have to pee as much?
2:08:34 Dax Shepard? Sure.
2:08:35 Speaker 01 That was Toto's, um, theory. It actually says fizzy or sparkling water contains dissolved carbon dioxide. This results in an acidic solution that may increase urinary urgency, irritate your bladder.
2:08:49 Dax Shepard? Irritate your bladder?
2:08:50 Speaker 01 Our advice is to limit your intake of one of these to one glass a day.
2:08:55 Dax Shepard? Oh, wow. I think, well, Toto's only drinking bubbly water. But look, it, if, do I believe that, what you just read, or just looking at the man? Whatever he's doing works.
2:09:05 Speaker 01 It's true, but we don't know about his peeing.
2:09:08 Dax Shepard? Proof is in the pudding.
2:09:09 Speaker 01 That is true.
2:09:11 Dax Shepard? Do you have any sparkling water? I don't want to wake up every night to go pee and wake up and then I can't concentrate on the team. I'm the cutest little boy ever made. Watch me jump. Watch me play.
2:09:23 Speaker 01 Oh.
2:09:24 Dax Shepard? Do you think he ever sings that song?
2:09:26 Speaker 01 Sounds so, so different. Um, oh, okay. I said something out of school. I left it in, but I want people to know. I know it was wrong.
2:09:35 Dax Shepard? What did you leave in?
2:09:36 Speaker 01 So her grandfather was paralyzed, remember? Or from the, from the waist down? And then he got in an accident, broke his ankle or something.
2:09:47 Dax Shepard? Okay.
2:09:48 Speaker 01 And I said like, oh, I mean, like, doesn't really matter or something. Um, but it does. Like you, then I, I looked it up. Like if you're paralyzed and you break your leg, uh, do you still have to do anything? And you do.
2:10:04 Speaker 01 Still requires medical treatment. I just feel like maybe if there's no pain, it could just heal on its own.
2:10:10 Dax Shepard? That's definitely the silver lining of getting a broken leg when you're paralyzed.
2:10:13 Speaker 01 Right.
2:10:14 Dax Shepard? But it's not nothing.
2:10:15 Speaker 01 It's not nothing.
2:10:16 Dax Shepard? But it's definitely less than if you're fully able-bodied.
2:10:20 Speaker 01 Yeah, the current F1 car you said weighs about 980 kilograms. A current Formula One car has a minimum weight limit of 768 kilograms. This limit applies to the car and driver combination, but excludes fuel. 2026 reset. The current generation of cars is noticeably lighter than the previous era, dropping 32 kilograms from 800 kilograms minimum seen in 2025.
2:10:47 Dax Shepard? Ask it how many kilograms of fuel they carry. I think, I think they have like 100 kilos of fuel.
2:10:54 Speaker 01 Fuel does an F1 car.
2:10:57 Dax Shepard? I think filled up there in the 900s.
2:11:00 Speaker 01 Okay, it carries a maximum of 110 kilograms of fuel.
2:11:04 Dax Shepard? Okay.
2:11:04 Speaker 01 Because mid-race refueling is banned. This maximum amount must last the entire race, taking the cars about 300 kilometers. Did my Botox guy say I have a thick neck? I don't think he used the word thick like I did, but he did comment. He, he basically was like, it's, you have really strong muscles. But he was saying that because the neck was thick.
2:11:25 Dax Shepard? Oh, so he said you have really strong muscles and you heard my neck's too thick?
2:11:30 Speaker 01 Well, no, because we're trying to make it smaller. The whole point of the Botox was to.
2:11:35 Dax Shepard? I'm trying to imagine if you succeed at giving yourself a pencil neck, how wild that'll be.
2:11:40 Speaker 01 Well, it's more, it's not really about the neck so much as it is like this and here. Yeah, exactly. But this is like very strong.
2:11:48 Dax Shepard? Wow. That's elite, your elite muscle mass is all in your mastoid and your neck.
2:11:53 Speaker 01 Exactly. He grabs it. He grabbed it and said that.
2:11:56 Dax Shepard? Manhandles you.
2:11:57 Speaker 01 I gave him permission.
2:11:58 Dax Shepard? Okay.
2:11:58 Speaker 01 I like him a lot.
2:12:00 Dax Shepard? He processes you like a chicken.
2:12:02 Speaker 01 Yeah, he does, and I appreciate it. Okay, was she two tenths or one tenth away when she, um, finished that practice session? You said two, yeah, point two.
2:12:15 Dax Shepard? Hmm.
2:12:16 Speaker 01 That's what I see as well.
2:12:17 Dax Shepard? Um, Kimmy and Max's qualifying lap at, um, Monaco, second to last qualifying lap.
2:12:26 Dax Shepard? Point zero zero three.
2:12:27 Speaker 01 No.
2:12:28 Dax Shepard? Three thousand.
2:12:29 Speaker 01 I can't even, no.
2:12:30 Dax Shepard? Three thousandths of a second.
2:12:34 Speaker 01 How can they even measure that?
2:12:36 Dax Shepard? I know.
2:12:36 Speaker 01 That is so.
2:12:38 Dax Shepard? I mean, losing.
2:12:39 Speaker 01 No, that makes me wanna die, actually.
2:12:42 Dax Shepard? By something that's way less than a blink of an eye.
2:12:44 Speaker 01 Exactly.
2:12:44 Dax Shepard? Way, way less.
2:12:46 Speaker 01 You can't even do it. We can't even like.
2:12:48 Dax Shepard? You initiate the blink of an eye and you're at point zero zero three.
2:12:52 Speaker 01 Whoa.
2:12:52 Dax Shepard? That's the margin, man. It blows my mind. You have two different teams. Each team has a thousand employees. The cars are completely one offs. They're not the original part. Everything's original for each team. All these variables.
2:13:08 Speaker 01 I know.
2:13:08 Dax Shepard? And they land point zero zero three often.
2:13:12 Speaker 01 That is so crazy.
2:13:13 Dax Shepard? Doesn't feel real.
2:13:14 Speaker 01 I know.
2:13:15 Dax Shepard? Okay.
2:13:16 Speaker 01 Oh, okay.
2:13:17 Dax Shepard? Were those the facts?
2:13:17 Speaker 01 Yeah, those are the facts. We have a story.
2:13:19 Dax Shepard? Yeah, we have a little bit of a story about Suzie, which is when we walked her out, Lincoln was hiding in the bushes.
2:13:25 Speaker 01 Mm hmm.
2:13:26 Dax Shepard? She knew Suzie was here and she wanted to meet her.
2:13:28 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:13:28 Dax Shepard? She's a super in F1 now, which I thought was so adorable.
2:13:31 Speaker 01 Yes.
2:13:32 Dax Shepard? So she comes out and she meets Suzie and they're chatting and Suzie says like, who's your favorite driver? And she says, Kimmy, of course, Kimmy Antonelli. And for people who aren't following F1, there's the cutest human being on planet Earth is currently destroying.
2:13:47 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:13:48 Dax Shepard? He's nineteen years old. Kimmy Antonelli, he's Italian. He lives with his family at home in San Marino.
2:13:54 Speaker 01 Oh, my God.
2:13:55 Dax Shepard? And he's a little boy.
2:13:56 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:13:57 Dax Shepard? And he's dominating. And he's so cute and friendly. So anyways, Lincoln says, Kimmy, and Kimmy drives for Mercedes.
2:14:06 Speaker 01 Right.
2:14:06 Dax Shepard? Which Toto is the team principal of.
2:14:08 Speaker 01 Yes.
2:14:09 Dax Shepard? And Suzie said, oh, well, we're in town because we have a Mercedes event tomorrow. Would you wanna meet Kimmy?
2:14:17 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:14:18 Dax Shepard? And Lincoln immediately started crying.
2:14:23 Speaker 01 It's a powerful.
2:14:24 Dax Shepard? I was like, I love, her response was just to start crying.
2:14:28 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's, it's like an overwhelming offer. Yeah.
2:14:32 Dax Shepard? Yes.
2:14:32 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:14:34 Dax Shepard? So, we went, so then we were gonna go to the event. And then the next day, you and I were recording all day long. So it was like, I wasn't able to connect with Suzie. But all these flurry of texts I had missed, I now see, by the way, they all do WhatsApp, right? So, which I forget to check. So anyways, Suzie's like, okay, bad news. The event's 21 and over, so Lincoln can't really come to the event. But, we're gonna be hanging in this hotel room for an hour before the event. You wanna come by the hotel room? And I'm like, well, this is so much better.
2:15:05 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:15:06 Dax Shepard? Than like being at a big noisy event and standing around awkwardly. And so I go, yeah, absolutely. Tell me what time, it's like at five. And I'm like, perfect, I'll be there, it's downtown. So then they come in and I tell Lincoln, like, okay, so this is a situation, it's not the event, but we're gonna go hang. And she goes, I, no.
2:15:23 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:15:24 Dax Shepard? No, no, I can't.
2:15:25 Speaker 01 That's too much.
2:15:25 Dax Shepard? It was too stressful for her. And I'm like, listen, love, I don't really push you to do much, but you're gonna, we're going to be coming into that.
2:15:33 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:15:34 Dax Shepard? This is, this opportunity ain't coming around ever again. There's so much funny stuff. We ride down there on the motorcycle, cause traffic's fucking horrendous and we gotta go downtown. So it's like, we're gonna take the motorcycle. We get to the event, it's at the Soho House Warehouse, which I didn't even know they had. It's so cool. There's a really cool warehouse downtown that the Soho House has.
2:15:54 Speaker 01 Oh.
2:15:54 Dax Shepard? So, we parked the motorcycle, it's a pain in the ass to try to get two helmets in the, in the back bag, uh, the top box on the motorcycle. So, of course, I'm just gonna carry them. And Lincoln's like, no, no, put the helmets away. And I go, wait, why, I don't wanna, I don't want us to have helmets. You know, like the stakes were so high.
2:16:14 Speaker 01 That's cool.
2:16:14 Dax Shepard? I told her that. I go, what are you talking about? It's so much cooler to walk in and we're both holding helmets and you, you ride motorcycles and you're on a motorcycle. No. And here's where as a dad, you just gotta go like, okay.
2:16:24 Speaker 01 That's what she wants.
2:16:25 Dax Shepard? Yeah, this is a great lesson she's teaching me.
2:16:26 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:16:27 Dax Shepard? She's like, she's wrong.
2:16:28 Speaker 01 Right.
2:16:29 Dax Shepard? I know she's wrong.
2:16:30 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:16:30 Dax Shepard? And who cares, this is how she wants to do it.
2:16:32 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:16:32 Dax Shepard? So we put the motors, we put the helmets away, we're not even gonna talk about the fact that we were, when we can't talk about the fact that we were on a motorcycle there.
2:16:39 Speaker 01 Oh my god.
2:16:40 Dax Shepard? We go into this room, and I'm also, look, I'm, I hope I'm really conscious of the fact that like, I don't wanna bum a famous person out. I don't wanna complicate his.
2:16:52 Dax Shepard? Downtime before he has to do this event with me and my kid, you know? And so I'm planning on being like, whatever, man, we'll talk to Toto and Suzie or whatever. But we walk in, he immediately comes up and introduces himself. He's so likeable and outgoing and kind. He engages Lincoln right away in conversation and they sit on a couch.
2:17:16 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:17:17 Dax Shepard? And just chat and he's showing her pictures on the phone. He's talking about how the race cars. And I'm just hearing little glimpses and it's just so cute to hear my little girl like, oh, I know. Europe's so hot. You know, just how she's responding. And so then Toto's videoing them.
2:17:31 Speaker 01 Yeah, secretly.
2:17:32 Dax Shepard? Secretly.
2:17:33 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:17:34 Dax Shepard? And he's like, shut up, shut up. Cause I'm talking to the other guy from Austria. And he's like, shut up, shut up. He goes, we're gonna show them this video at their wedding and embarrass them.
2:17:42 Speaker 01 It's so.
2:17:44 Dax Shepard? In that moment, I was like, oh my God, what if Lincoln married Kimi Antonelli? And then I just thought, oh my God, what if my son-in-law is an F1 driver? The fucking fun we'll have?
2:17:56 Speaker 01 And not only just an F1 driver, like an incredible one.
2:18:01 Dax Shepard? Soon to be a legend, F1 driver.
2:18:03 Speaker 01 Oh, I really hope she marries him.
2:18:05 Dax Shepard? I was starting to lock into how these like kings felt in France where it's like you're gonna pair up your kid with somebody that you're gonna love this family.
2:18:13 Speaker 01 See, it's easy to, it's easy to do.
2:18:15 Dax Shepard? Slippery slope, yeah.
2:18:16 Speaker 01 Arrange marriage, it's all a thing. That's so cute.
2:18:19 Dax Shepard? It was the sweetest night and I just, I wanna scream from the rooftops, this generosity that this young man showed to my daughter. I am so grateful for. He's such a little gentleman.
2:18:32 Speaker 01 I love him.
2:18:33 Dax Shepard? He's so kind and sweet and it just was a real fucking.
2:18:39 Speaker 01 It's incredible.
2:18:39 Dax Shepard? Gift of all gifts.
2:18:41 Speaker 01 Thank you, Suzie, for the invite. What an incredible.
2:18:44 Dax Shepard? Oh, and then one more funny Toto thing. So then they had to go do stuff. They're in and out of the room, right?
2:18:49 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:18:50 Dax Shepard? What's funny is all the Kimmy stuff happened before Suzie ever arrived. So then soon as Kimmy had to leave, Lincoln's like, well, let's go, let's go. Like basically like we got the yes, you know, like it was a success. Let's get out of here before I embarrass myself kind of thing.
2:19:01 Speaker 01 Which is wise.
2:19:01 Dax Shepard? Yeah, I understand that. So then we, Lincoln and I are leaving, we're departing. And we're getting on the elevator and he goes, where are you going? We have the event. And I go, oh no, it's 21 and over. And he goes, no, no, no, you're staying. Come here. Everyone out. Come on, you're staying. And we go, no, we don't, we don't want the rules broken. Also, she's got homework. He's like, no, no, those aren't the rules. He got into total mode, like, you're coming to this event.
2:19:27 Speaker 01 Oh, my God.
2:19:28 Dax Shepard? We did not. We went home. Do you know who was at the event?
2:19:31 Speaker 01 Brad.
2:19:32 Dax Shepard? Pitt.
2:19:33 Speaker 01 And that's why.
2:19:34 Dax Shepard? Kim Kardashian.
2:19:36 Speaker 01 KK?
2:19:37 Dax Shepard? You ever heard of Kardashian?
2:19:39 Speaker 01 Not like that.
2:19:40 Dax Shepard? Tricky too, because she's dating Lewis Hamilton. He's at Ferrari.
2:19:42 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah.
2:19:44 Dax Shepard? But she was at the Mercedes. You know what? It might have been a different Kardashian.
2:19:49 Speaker 01 Oh, no.
2:19:50 Dax Shepard? I'm not sure it was Kim or.
2:19:52 Speaker 01 Khloe or Kendall or, oh, don't say that, because we want all of them on the show.
2:19:57 Dax Shepard? Okay, Bernice.
2:19:59 Speaker 01 Um, okay, well, uh, that sucks. You didn't get to hang out with Brad.
2:20:03 Dax Shepard? That's fine.
2:20:03 Speaker 01 Probably the moment he was gonna ask you to be in his movie.
2:20:06 Dax Shepard? He's like, hey, are you busy next weekend? I'm going to Isle of Man TT to shoot this movie. I need you.
2:20:11 Speaker 01 And then.
2:20:11 Dax Shepard? But I was there. But it was great, because the whole night was for Lincoln. You don't want to bring helmets, great. You don't want to pretend we took a cab here, cool. You want to get out of here, okay.
2:20:20 Speaker 01 Wow. Well, what a good time.
2:20:22 Dax Shepard? I love her. I love her so much.
2:20:23 Speaker 01 We love her. We absolutely love her. Um, and I hope Lincoln and Kimmy get married and put that out there. We're doubling down on that.
2:20:33 Dax Shepard? I don't mind. I'm signing off.
2:20:35 Speaker 01 Yeah. All right.
2:20:37 Dax Shepard? Love you.
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