Apple Splitting up iPhone 18 Releases?

This week, Marques, Andrew, and David start things off by talking about how Apple might be switching up iPhone releases! They also talk about the new changes coming to Google devices with the Material 3 Expressive leak and also some Android desktop-mode improvements that were found. After that, David gives us a breakdown on the Epic vs Apple court case. They close it out debating whether they're more excited for Google I/O in May or Apple WWDC later in the summer. Links: The Information - ⁠Apple iPhone releases 9to5Google - Material 3 Expressive leak Android Authority - Google building its own DeX Music provided by Epidemic Sound Shop the merch: https://shop.mkbhd.com Socials: Waveform: https://www.threads.net/@waveformpodcast Marques: https://www.threads.net/@mkbhd Andrew: https://www.threads.net/@andrew_manganelli David: https://www.threads.net/@davidimel Adam: https://www.threads.net/@parmesanpapi17 Ellis: https://twitter.com/EllisRovin TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@waveformpodcast Join the Discord: https://discord.gg/mkbhd Music by 20syl: https://bit.ly/2S53xlC Waveform is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by On Investing, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Each week, hosts Lizanne Saunders, Schwab's Chief Investment Strategist, and Colin Martin, Head of Fixed Income Research and Strategy for the Schwab Center for Financial Research, bring you fresh insights on what's happening in the markets and why, and what the implications might be for your portfolio. Join Colin and Lizanne as they explore questions like, how do you evaluate corporate bonds that look interesting? And what sectors are on the move right now? Download the latest episode and subscribe at schwab.com/oninvesting, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:45Speaker 01

  Support for the show comes from JIRA by Atlassian. AI is only as useful as the context it has to work from, but when that context is scattered across tools, threads, and DMs, that means your team and your AI agents end up flying blind. That's the problem that JIRA solves. What's the goal tied to your project? What got decided last week in Slack? Atlassian's teamwork graph pulls all these pieces together, from JIRA, Confluence, Slack, GitHub, and more, so nothing falls through the cracks. With JIRA, you can actually share that context with the AI agents you already use, like Claude, Cursor, and GitHub Copilot, assign them work directly, or connect your agents through MCP. Spend less time digging through endless links and DMs, less time chasing down what got decided and by who,

• 1:26Speaker 01

  and more time actually shipping. Learn more at jira.com. That's J-I-R-A dot com.

• 1:32David Imel?

  My friends and I thought that the color mahogany was funny, so... Wait, wait, wait, wait. Why?

• 1:39Speaker 01

  It's objectively hilarious.

• 1:40David Imel?

  We used to just walk around, we used to just walk around and go, mahogany, mah ho.

• 1:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, what's up people of the internet? Welcome back to another episode of the Waveform Podcast. We're your hosts, I'm Marquez.

• 1:59Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm Andrew.

• 2:00Speaker 04

  And I'm David.

• 2:01Speaker 01

  This week, we do have a lot of stuff. We've got a doozy. We've got, let's see, Android features, a bunch of new stuff got leaked. Apple might stagger the iPhone release, which is kind of interesting, based on the other rumors that we'll talk about. Arguably, the biggest update to the Apple third-party App Store fiasco and lawsuit.

• 2:20Speaker 04

  But first, we, the producers of said podcast, have to remove a point from Marquez, because as the people of the internet have correctly pointed out, the iPhone 6 that we gave a point to Marquez to last week in trivia, actually came out in 2015, not 2014. So we're taking the point away.

• 2:44Speaker 01

  I don't like how cheerful this is.

• 2:46Andrew Manganelli?

  I like the music.

• 2:47Speaker 01

  How happy you guys are to take this point away from me.

• 2:49Speaker 04

  You say you like the music, but this is the same music that would have played during that Spotify thing we were talking about.

• 2:55Andrew Manganelli?

  Was it?

• 2:56Speaker 04

  No.

• 2:56Andrew Manganelli?

  No.

• 2:57Speaker 04

  But it was way better.

• 2:58Speaker 01

  But I'm using that forever.

• 2:59Andrew Manganelli?

  That felt very Diddy Kong racing.

• 3:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. You know, other game shows, if they mess up, you just, you keep the money.

• 3:05Andrew Manganelli?

  We're not other game shows.

• 3:07Speaker 04

  When the bank messes up, they come after you.

• 3:08Andrew Manganelli?

  Other game shows don't have hundreds of comments begging to take the point away. So they keep us honest, and that's why you should subscribe, so you can make sure we don't get any extra points.

• 3:19Speaker 01

  Yeah. If you'd like to see me continue to be devastated by trivia, make sure you hit that red button.

• 3:24Speaker 04

  Cash a $90,000 check and it wasn't real, the bank will destroy you.

• 3:28Speaker 01

  That's fair enough.

• 3:29Andrew Manganelli?

  Sounds like a personal problem.

• 3:32Speaker 01

  All right, let's get into it. First thing is, Apple might, I don't know where this came from, it's sort of an out-of-the-blue rumor, but Apple might only release the Pro iPhones in 2026.

• 3:42Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 3:42Speaker 01

  And then stagger the regular iPhones to be released months later.

• 3:46Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 3:46Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 3:48Speaker 04

  The information.

• 3:49Speaker 01

  I don't understand this one. I don't understand why they would do that, because typically, the standard iPhones use the same chip as the previous year's iPhones.

• 3:57Speaker 04

  Right.

• 3:58Speaker 01

  So they would be even older and more out of date.

• 4:01David Imel?

  Do you find any merit? I think maybe they would get rid of that fact and they would start using the good chips again, but just not the Pro version and the regular version instead. Because like the Pro phone, the big Pro phone, the most expensive one in the United States is always the one that sells the most. In the US? In the United States. It is. So it kind of makes sense. I mean, they're planning on releasing two new iPhone models in the next two years. So at this point, we're gonna have the Air and we're also gonna have a Fold. Can I get like, can we make an example of how this would play out in 2026? Yeah. So like- So last year, we had in 2024, the iPhone was the 16, 16 Plus, 16 Pro, 16 Pro Max. Then we got the 16E at the beginning of 2025.

• 4:46David Imel?

  So now the end of 2025 would still be- This is normal, besides the Air that comes out this year. So this is starting next year. 17, 17 Pro, 17 Plus, 17- Air. Air. Yeah. Great. So then in 2026, we would get the iPhone 18 Pro and 18 Pro Max. And those are the premium iPhones. And then- Some of them. Six months later, we would get the iPhone 18 Air, 18 and 18 Plus. No. No? No. So the report says that in fall of 2026, we get the Pro, the Foldable, which is the hot dog style. Okay. Right? And then you also get the Air. And then it's six months later that you're gonna get the regular models and the E.

• 5:31David Imel?

  So the regular gets pushed to E launch, which is usually like Q2-ish- Yeah. The following year. Yeah. So kind of like the A series in Pixel. Right. So I'm not totally sure how they're doing this chip-wise, whether or not they're just gonna give all the iPhones the good chip again, except not the Pro version. So like one less GPU core. But it does kind of make sense to release all the Pro versions at the same time, because those are the most hot-selling ones anyway. And if you have three kind of Pro-ish iPhones, like you, it depends on if you consider the Air a Pro phone. The Air is at least the one that a lot of people wanna buy. Yeah. Sure. It's premium. So- Allegedly. Allegedly, allegedly. So-

• 6:10David Imel?

  I think this makes a lot of sense, but it is interesting to think of the regular iPhone getting kind of delegated towards the more budget side of the world, you know?

• 6:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:20David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 6:20Speaker 01

  Fascinating. I mean, I, I never had a problem with all the iPhones coming out at the same time, but I also would find it interesting to have different release cycles than we usually do. There's also a little more information about the foldable from the information article. They say it would potentially have a 5.7 inch screen while closed and a just under 8 inch screen while open. And Ming Chi Kuo has previously suggested it would be around 4 and a half to 4.8 millimeters thick open.

• 6:49David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 6:49Speaker 01

  And use Face ID instead of Touch ID.

• 6:51David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 6:51Speaker 04

  As a tech review channel, music to my ears.

• 6:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, as a content creator, that's just more.

• 6:58Speaker 04

  We don't have three weeks to do four iPhone videos or four iPhones.

• 7:02Andrew Manganelli?

  No, you still, because if the air comes out.

• 7:05David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 7:06Andrew Manganelli?

  Then there still is.

• 7:07Speaker 01

  There's still three iPhones.

• 7:07Andrew Manganelli?

  There's still three levels. Actually, there's more.

• 7:10Speaker 04

  I know, but we'll get six months.

• 7:11Andrew Manganelli?

  No, no, no, no. The fold, the pro and the air come out at the same time.

• 7:15Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 7:15Andrew Manganelli?

  Which actually means, because normally we just get pro models and regular models. We get three then.

• 7:20David Imel?

  And that's basically three reviews.

• 7:21Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, yeah, that's three reviews. And then six months later, we get, instead of just the E, we have the regular and the E. It's actually two separate times. That's almost twice as much work.

• 7:29Speaker 04

  I take it back. Apple, what have you done?

• 7:32David Imel?

  Okay, but considering our waveform iPhone episodes usually do pretty well.

• 7:37Speaker 01

  No, people, yeah.

• 7:38David Imel?

  I'll take extra.

• 7:40Speaker 01

  It's more new hardware to talk about, which is interesting.

• 7:42Speaker 04

  Can I tell you guys something about that?

• 7:44David Imel?

  What?

• 7:45Speaker 04

  We had our monthly meeting the other day and I put all the stats into AI and said, hey, give me some recommendations as to what we should do.

• 7:52David Imel?

  Did it tell you to eat rocks?

• 7:53Speaker 04

  It literally told me to just talk about iPhones. It was like, it seems like the iPhone episodes do great. You guys should focus more on iPhones.

• 8:00Speaker 01

  This is a fact. If you are a tech channel on YouTube and looking to start out, the lowest common denominator, like the easiest way to get the most views the fastest is to just talk about Apple all the time. Because people, especially in English speaking countries, talk about Apple a lot, care about Apple a lot, click on Apple a lot. It's the same as, I want to do a car video. What, what company am I going to talk about?

• 8:21David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 8:21Speaker 01

  Obviously Tesla.

• 8:22Andrew Manganelli?

  I want to make that clear, though, that the reason it gets views is because people are interested in it. Like, I also think an interesting point to that is like, I think people who dislike Apple will hate watch things where Apple fans don't really give a damn about other stuff and don't hate watch other things.

• 8:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that's a that's a real dynamic. You're saying if if you hate, you're saying there's more people who hate Apple and actively watch Apple videos to hate rather than the other way around.

• 8:51Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, we were just talking about this with something else the other day. I think it was with Tesla.

• 8:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was with Tesla. We actually, yeah, the similar analytics note where if you are a car channel and you are looking at your analytics and you've noticed, wow, everything that I do with Tesla in the title seems to do like way more numbers. You'll notice that people don't look at EVs as Tesla alternatives and watch those more. Instead, they hate watch the Tesla video and then leave.

• 9:18David Imel?

  Are we sure that that's not just like the the vocal minority, though? And there's actually a majority of people who are interested in the car that watch it.

• 9:28Andrew Manganelli?

  I think that's also, I think it's a.

• 9:30Speaker 01

  Same with Apple, right?

• 9:31Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, I think part of it is like, and why I wanted to say that was there it's so easy to say X person just does this for views, but like those views means it's people interested in that video, which means there are just people interested like that's you can still be interested like views has such this negative connotation and YouTube, which doesn't always translate as only doing it for like money or whatever. But I also think there are, because it's also easier to do that in both of these senses, Tesla and Apple. It's easier to point at one thing where if you're on the other side, the Tesla side or the Apple side, you're not going to go to every Google, Samsung, Huawei,

• 10:10Andrew Manganelli?

  OnePlus, like all of them, or you're on Tesla, not going to be going to every Chevy Toyota video and like be mean.

• 10:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's also a reason why I think people like me use the most well-followed companies products as like reference points for other things. So sometimes people talk about like, wow, you always seem to talk about Apple or you always seem to reference an Apple product. When a lot of times that's just the thing that most people watching are already familiar with and it's giving context for other things. So if I can tell you that a a phone looks a certain, maybe a photo from the camera looks a certain way compared to the iPhone, when you've already seen a lot of iPhone photos, it helps you understand that. Or if I talk about specs, similar stuff. Yeah, so it's just that big pillar in the middle of the the.

• 10:54David Imel?

  Stuff happening in this world. Yeah. Anyway. Speaking of talking about only Apple. Is that what you're gonna do? That was literally my transition. I was like waiting to do it for about five minutes. Well, same. I was like, I have to let people talk and then I can do it. Well, speaking of how we only talk about Apple. Speaking of how we only talk about Apple, we're gonna talk about Google. We'll talk about Apple again later, but. I think that worked better in your heads. No. I think so, too. I thought it was funny. We'll talk plenty about Apple later. Ellis and I both thought it was funny. Google accidentally leaked Material 3 Expressive, which is definitely a name for a UI. Material 3 Expressive? If you remember, we had Material U last time around, which was with the Pixel 6. It started with Material Design. Exactly.

• 11:39David Imel?

  Which was a long time ago. Material Design was this way of basically adding sort of layered interaction systems to design elements, as in you're stacking like paper sheets. So if you see the hamburger menu that isn't a lot of Google apps, where things will layer over each other, that was Material Design. They updated it over time. Material U was Material Design, but it was weirder in a lot of ways. Matching colors, different ways to make your UI more expressive, which is ironic because now this new version of Material Design is called Material 3 Expressive. Google did a bunch of tests where they conducted many different research studies. They say 46.

• 12:22David Imel?

  And they dialed in a new system that they say is both beautiful and highly usable. It's actually very funny because there's a bunch of info on all of the research that they did and they have all these graphs. And one of the graphs that was, it was like, people that think that things stand apart and are cool are cool.

• 12:42Andrew Manganelli?

  The graphs are like, pretty much like, hey, here's how this vibes with people. And it's like, the number one way to kill a vibe is to put it in percentage points inside of a graph.

• 12:54David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 12:54Andrew Manganelli?

  It's just like, it's a cool, coolness attributes. 98% say it stands apart. 87% say it's defiant. Like, this is.

• 13:03David Imel?

  Yeah. 98% is original. It is really, I would love to. 100% reason to remember the name.

• 13:09Speaker 01

  I would want to like be a fly on the wall and have Tim read through this and see what he thinks because it's really hard to quantify design.

• 13:17David Imel?

  Right.

• 13:18Speaker 01

  If that makes sense.

• 13:18David Imel?

  Totally.

• 13:19Speaker 01

  So yeah, you want it to be energetic, but what does that mean?

• 13:23David Imel?

  From what I understand, Material 3 Expressive is like an evolution of Material U, where Material U was weird shapes. This is both weird shapes and weird fonts.

• 13:35David Imel?

  But another part of it that I find actually quite interesting is if you look at the design schemas, you have an app like, say Gmail. So like, there's this screenshot of Gmail here, and they basically separate the app into multiple different little windows. So everything is kind of like localized into its own space. They round off all the edges. They get rid of sort of that super flat design where you can't tell like where the, where it ends and where it begins. And I think that it looks pretty cool. Whether or not you think it's cool is up to you.

• 14:04Andrew Manganelli?

  I think this looks really good. I agree. The separation of things makes it easier to find everything. I don't know why the send button needs to be 50% larger than all the other buttons. I just take up space.

• 14:15David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 14:15Andrew Manganelli?

  But besides that, I do, I do think this way of separating things in these like floating menus makes the, the navigation way easier.

• 14:24David Imel?

  Yeah. And they also like the fonts are way different. There's different layered stuff.

• 14:29Speaker 01

  You guys should check out this article and then look at some of these visuals if you get a chance. They are, they're very colorful, very, uh, there's a lot of frills and, and shapes and floating things. And UI is generally shuffled quite a bit.

• 14:44David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 14:44Speaker 01

  There's lots of interesting aspect ratios and that, it's just very different.

• 14:48David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 14:48Speaker 01

  I, my only want is that it's still intuitive. Like if they're, if you're going to move things around, at least keep them in places that it makes sense for them to be. I actually don't mind in this like Gmail screenshot that the send button is big because that's the biggest button.

• 15:02David Imel?

  The biggest thing you're gonna use.

• 15:03Speaker 01

  I'm gonna use most often. The keyboard is the same size. Like my attachment buttons are a little bit more easy to find. Reachability is another concern. Like, put things near the bottom of our ever increasingly larger phone screens.

• 15:14David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 15:15Speaker 01

  So it makes sense. It's just, yeah, very, I don't know how, what do you mean by, what does this graph say? A 30% jump in rebelliousness.

• 15:25Speaker 04

  That send button's rebellious, Marques.

• 15:27David Imel?

  What does that mean? I don't know. How do you make a UI rebellious? So, yeah, that's the story. There's a button that says, "I'm gonna sue Google." Imagine in Photoshop, there's like a rebelliousness slider and you just slide it up and make it more rebellious. The send button turns into a hammer. Yeah, what is, what is happening there?

• 15:43Speaker 04

  Yeah. I do like the way it looks better, though, in this Gmail concept.

• 15:47David Imel?

  Definitely.

• 15:47Speaker 04

  Because it does, like, to your point, Marques, about it remaining intuitive. I feel like that is intuitive because, like, the to and from portions of it, you know you're sending an email. You know, like, that's somewhere else. You don't need to constantly see that as you're typing out the email. So I like that they, like, push that away. You have the send button.

• 16:05David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 16:06Speaker 04

  You have the attach button, all of that.

• 16:07David Imel?

  What it really feels like is that they're just making everything as random as physically possible, which I will take, you know? That sounds pretty rebellious. Maybe that is what rebellious means. Thirty percent more rebellious. But I'm, I'm interested how you create a design scheme that is inherently, like, random, because obviously there's going to be a system in place. But, yeah, I don't know. Something else that I find very funny, and one of the graphs that they shared, is that they took a bunch of data from different age groups, and just as people get older, they hate expressive things more and more. It's like, ages eighteen to twenty-four percent, eighty-seven percent of that demographic prefers expressive, twenty-five to thirty-four, eighty-one, thirty-five to forty-four, sixty-five, forty-five to fifty-four, sixty-two, fifty-five to sixty-four, fifty-two.

• 16:52Speaker 04

  You just said a lot of numbers.

• 16:53David Imel?

  I just said a lot of numbers. You can just basically think of it as, as you get older, you get more boring and more angry. What's the word? What's the word?

• 17:00Speaker 04

  Can confirm.

• 17:02David Imel?

  Yeah, my back hurts.

• 17:04Speaker 04

  Is this them just trying to, like, tailor the experience to get back the youths?

• 17:10David Imel?

  That's something, for sure.

• 17:11Speaker 04

  Well, like, it's fun to make fun of the, like, vibe graphs at the bottom, but like, this does look good. I, I can't wait to see it for real, because all these leaks are just, like, light purple, and I want to see a couple of their colors, but

• 17:24David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 17:25Speaker 04

  overall.

• 17:26David Imel?

  Fifteen percent of my diet is Cholula.

• 17:29Speaker 04

  If I made everything Cholula-colored, my life would be a better place.

• 17:32David Imel?

  Yeah. I, I really wonder if they're gonna call it Material 3 expressive. I bet they will. They should just call it Material U2. Material 3 would be fine.

• 17:42Speaker 04

  Well, Material, it's basically that, isn't it? Because Material 3 is Material U.

• 17:46David Imel?

  It is.

• 17:46Speaker 04

  So now it's like, Material...

• 17:48David Imel?

  They should just call it Material Us.

• 17:50Speaker 04

  Dot I.

• 17:51Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh.

• 17:52David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 17:52Speaker 01

  Material Us.

• 17:53Andrew Manganelli?

  I actually love that.

• 17:53David Imel?

  Material I.

• 17:55Andrew Manganelli?

  Material U S.

• 17:56Speaker 01

  Material I am.

• 17:57David Imel?

  U S.

• 17:58Andrew Manganelli?

  Us.

• 17:59David Imel?

  Us, oh.

• 18:00Andrew Manganelli?

  Like big U, little S?

• 18:01David Imel?

  Like the S that they used on iPhones?

• 18:04Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 18:04David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 18:05Speaker 01

  You know what it also reminded me? The, how colorful everything is and how expressive and vibey it all is, is further and further from the minimal phones we keep seeing. Like the minimal phone is just white text, black background, box.

• 18:18David Imel?

  That's true.

• 18:19Speaker 01

  And this phone is like, every button will be a little different.

• 18:22David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 18:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:23Andrew Manganelli?

  For some reason, all these remind me of like Spotify Wrapped.

• 18:27David Imel?

  Oh, yeah.

• 18:28Andrew Manganelli?

  Like they're just like scrolling through the like little slideshow they give you. It's like, what if your whole phone was Spotify Wrapped?

• 18:34David Imel?

  Let's go.

• 18:35Speaker 01

  It's a little chaotic.

• 18:35David Imel?

  That's what the kids want.

• 18:36Speaker 01

  I see it.

• 18:37David Imel?

  That has some W Riz. Okay. Um, so that's a, there's a very good nine to five Google article that we'll link in the show notes about that. So you should go check that out.

• 18:46Andrew Manganelli?

  If you want to see it, yeah.

• 18:47David Imel?

  Uh, one last story that's definitely about, uh, Apple. Google's desktop mode is finally coming.

• 18:56David Imel?

  And it's just like Dex.

• 19:01David Imel?

  And I was gonna let Adam talk about it, but I feel like that's exactly what he wants.

• 19:04Speaker 04

  What more needs to be said?

• 19:06David Imel?

  Michelle Ramon from Android Authority posted this first look at Google's own desktop mode, which adds a taskbar at the bottom for pinned in recent apps and also allows you to launch apps that you can resize and snap, just like you can do in Windows and macOS, which is quite cool. It is probably not going to launch with this new version of Android, but probably the one down the line because it's still in very early stages. Uh, but you will be able to drag and drop content from one app to another as long as the app support it, which I find very cool. Uh, yeah, so, yeah.

• 19:36Andrew Manganelli?

  I was gonna say, can I be the village idiot here for a second?

• 19:38David Imel?

  Let's go.

• 19:39Andrew Manganelli?

  Haven't we talked about this like eight times already?

• 19:41David Imel?

  Oh, yeah, baby.

• 19:41Andrew Manganelli?

  And is it still the same thing that's almost here?

• 19:45Speaker 04

  Well, yes, first of all.

• 19:46Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay.

• 19:47Speaker 04

  Second of all, last time that we spoke about this, it was just them discovering it at all. Like, oh, this exists. That's crazy. And like my phone right now, I have the Pixel nine Pro. You could plug it into a screen and get like a very basic kind of desktop thing.

• 20:01Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 20:02Speaker 04

  This is them now updating that.

• 20:04Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay.

• 20:05Speaker 04

  And making it way more usable.

• 20:07David Imel?

  In the video, there's a video there on their, on their YouTube channel on the site. It looks like Chrome OS.

• 20:12Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 20:13David Imel?

  Which is, I'm sure.

• 20:15Speaker 01

  How it's supposed to look.

• 20:16Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, I would prefer if they just use this instead of Chrome OS, you know?

• 20:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, just drag, because it's everything that's on your phone already, too. So your messages and all that stuff, but it's like you can drag Android apps next to each other. You can have Chrome next to whatever random app you were gonna copy and paste into, whatever. Like, it's, it's functional because it's got the stuff that's already on your phone. But also then it's a Chrome OS computer when you plug it into this shell screen.

• 20:40Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 20:41Speaker 01

  It's cool.

• 20:41Andrew Manganelli?

  How close are we to getting back to Project Linda? The Razer laptop where you stick your phone inside of it? And it's just a screen and a keyboard to run off your phone?

• 20:51Speaker 01

  I think the idea of this is kind of that you can plug it into like any Windows computer and it'll turn into this, like you can boot it into this.

• 20:57Andrew Manganelli?

  It would be sweet if my laptop was just a place to slide my phone into and then have a workspace.

• 21:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean-

• 21:04Speaker 05

  At least a decade.

• 21:05Andrew Manganelli?

  Linda, everyone thought it was cool, but it was just a Razer CES product that never would see the light of day.

• 21:10Speaker 01

  And the problem was that it would only work with the phone that was exactly that shape.

• 21:14Speaker 05

  But why not just use a laptop?

• 21:18Andrew Manganelli?

  Because it costs-

• 21:18Speaker 01

  It is-

• 21:19Andrew Manganelli?

  The shell would cost like a couple hundred bucks.

• 21:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, the shell would be cheaper and it would, I've, I've done actually a similar progression around my own house, which is I had a computer upstairs and had a computer in the basement. And I've slowly started getting rid of computers and I just take my laptop and I plug it into the monitor instead. And it's, obviously you can just have another computer, but if you just want to keep all of your stuff on one computer and then move it around and it sort of adapts to the form factor of the space you're in, that idea is appealing to people. And if you can do it all from a phone, then you only have your phone in your pocket and that can expand to be laptop sized, desktop sized, TV sized, whatever. That's like a-

• 21:57Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 21:58Speaker 01

  Nice idea.

• 21:58Andrew Manganelli?

  Never forget your files again.

• 22:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, you always know a computer it's on.

• 22:02Speaker 05

  Except you can't do any video editing or, you know?

• 22:05Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't know, bro.

• 22:06Speaker 05

  There's some light stuff, I guess. It's interesting because I feel like Apple's kind of doing the exact opposite thing, right? There with the iPhone mirroring where it's like, oh, you want to use your phone on your computer? Just open it as a little window.

• 22:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:19Speaker 05

  You know?

• 22:20Speaker 01

  Which is quite cool.

• 22:21Speaker 05

  Yeah, it is super cool.

• 22:22Speaker 01

  If you're able to do this wirelessly, that would be amazing.

• 22:24Speaker 05

  No way, there's no way.

• 22:25Speaker 01

  There is a way.

• 22:26Speaker 05

  There's no way.

• 22:27Speaker 01

  I mean, they do, they already do that with the iPhone mirroring, they already have that wirelessly.

• 22:32Speaker 05

  No, that, that, yeah, yeah, totally.

• 22:33Speaker 01

  So, I mean, if you could just say, I'm mirroring the phone, but also it's changing the UI up a little bit.

• 22:38Speaker 05

  There's no way.

• 22:41Speaker 01

  I'll see it when I see live transcription over video.

• 22:45Speaker 05

  But I think I'm about to be proven big time wrong about that. So let's maybe hold on.

• 22:51Speaker 01

  Gotta pull that clip up. Yeah. Also, I can't ignore the like slight.

• 22:57Speaker 01

  Well, we've always talked about this, the fact that Apple makes a device in each of these categories and wants to sell you multiple things versus Google doesn't make as many of those things. They don't make a desktop computer. They don't, I mean, they make a lot of the software, but they don't want to also sell you a laptop.

• 23:14David Imel?

  Yeah. Google sells Chrome, right? At least for now.

• 23:21David Imel?

  So their big idea was that Chrome is your internet computer. And like, as long as you're logged into your Chrome account, you've got your computer anywhere. That was their whole big idea with Chrome OS and why they were trying to put like a Chrome OS thing in every room of your house. Now, if they have to sell Chrome, that is messed up a lot. But yeah, that is kind of the opposite of Apple where they're just like, we need to sell you more hardware. Google doesn't have a lot of hardware to sell you. And the hardware that they do sell with Chrome OS is just to get you on Google services. Yeah. So it's quite different.

• 23:51Andrew Manganelli?

  My, what I wanted to say doesn't connect as well, but you mentioned, that's my fault. You mentioned how they're trying to sell you all these different things. Well, later in the episode, we're going to talk about why iPadOS might be getting a little closer to one of those.

• 24:06Speaker 01

  True.

• 24:07David Imel?

  Whoa, what a tease.

• 24:09Andrew Manganelli?

  Way later in the episode.

• 24:14Speaker 05

  Welcome back to another episode. What was so funny?

• 24:16Speaker 01

  Cut off really early. Or like a little early.

• 24:21Andrew Manganelli?

  It's so hot in here.

• 24:24Speaker 05

  All right. Material this, material that, whatever. Today's question is Aero, Metro, and Fluent are three iterations of which tech company's design language?

• 24:39Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 24:40Andrew Manganelli?

  What is it?

• 24:41Speaker 05

  Aero, Metro, and Fluent.

• 24:45Speaker 01

  You know.

• 24:45David Imel?

  I know.

• 24:47Speaker 01

  You know.

• 24:47Speaker 05

  Andrew knows.

• 24:48Speaker 01

  You remember.

• 24:49David Imel?

  We got it.

• 24:50Andrew Manganelli?

  Pepperidge Farm remembers. Andrew doesn't remember.

• 24:53Speaker 01

  Those who know.

• 24:53David Imel?

  I'm already thinking about the points I'm going to get at the end of the episode.

• 24:56Andrew Manganelli?

  And I'm already thinking about the points we're going to take away from you in the next episode.

• 25:01Speaker 01

  The answers, of course, will be at the end like usual. We'll be thinking about it. We'll be right back.

• 25:18Speaker 06

  When it comes to your business, you want cards and tools you can trust. AMEX Corporate helps put you in control. Set custom spend parameters to help fit your business needs and quickly issue unlimited corporate cash back cards, all backed by best-in-class fraud protection and the powerful backing of American Express. Get started at go.amex slash amexcorporate. Terms apply.

• 25:45Speaker 07

  Black Friday is around the corner. Your biggest chance to grow sales this year, don't wait. With Realize, Tabula's advertising platform for businesses, you can reach people engaging with your competitors across premium websites with 600 million daily active users. And as an exclusive offer for podcast listeners, new customers get $700 credit back. Just search Realize Podcast on Google or use the promo code PODCAST26. Ready to get started? Take advantage of this offer while it lasts. Terms apply.

• 26:22Speaker 06

  If you're looking to hire, you need Indeed. With Indeed Sponsored Jobs, you can spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results. And listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to help your job get the premium status it deserves at indeed.com/podcast. Just go to indeed.com/podcast right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs.

• 27:06David Imel?

  Welcome back to the podcast that only talks about Apple and the Nintendo Switch 2. In 2020, I had to get it in there at some point. It's good transcript, yes. You guys might remember that in 2021, Epic, the company that makes Fortnite, sued Apple with this absolutely epic video that they dropped as soon as Fortnite got kicked off the App Store. Basically, what happened is that Epic had a system in Fortnite that would allowed you to go buy the Fortnite Bucks somewhere else for cheaper. V-Bucks. They knew it was against the rules. Fortnite Bucks. V-Bucks. V-Bucks, yeah. V-Bucks. Yeah. They knew it was against the rules. Apple kicked them off the App Store. They immediately dropped a lawsuit and this 1980 Fortnite video. Banger video. Do you remember this?

• 27:51David Imel?

  It was so good. Yeah.

• 27:52Speaker 04

  It was a whole PR stunt.

• 27:53David Imel?

  It was a whole PR stunt. They had it ready. They were doing this on purpose. Apple walked right into it. They did. They did walk right into it. So Epic sued them and it was a pretty long lawsuit that took a while to resolve, but it did resolve. And Apple actually won most of the case, which was quite ironic because Epic also sued Google and Google lost the case. And it was for almost the same thing. So it was kind of dumb. But part of the case that they did not win was that the judge decided that there needed to be anti-steering laws in place, which is to say, "Apple is not allowed to not let developers tell people, 'You can go get this cheaper somewhere else.'"

• 28:35David Imel?

  This whole problem stems from the fact that Apple takes a 30% tax on all digital purchases through the App Store. And all microtransactions inside of apps. Right, which is a digital purchase as well. Yeah, so anytime you buy an app, and then anytime you buy anything in the app. Right, yeah. Yeah.

• 28:51Speaker 04

  Famously Kindle books too. You could not buy Kindle books.

• 28:54David Imel?

  Because it was a digital asset, which is ironic, because if you bought a real book on Amazon, it would not be subjected to that tax. But if you bought a Kindle book, it would be subjected to that tax. So there were circumstances where physical books were cheaper than eBooks because of this. Especially at your local independent bookstore. Yes, yes, okay. So the part that Epic won was that the judge said that they couldn't, they couldn't stop developers from telling people, "Oh, you can like go get this cheaper somewhere else," or like, you know, "Go to this link so that you can go on to the web." If you remember correctly, Apple implemented this very fairly quickly, but they did it in the most malicious compliance way possible.

• 29:37David Imel?

  They created this extremely complex thing for developers where they were like, okay, well, technically you can allow people to like go off of the App Store into the web. But they added all of these pop-ups that were like, are you sure you want to go to the web? We can't control what happens there.

• 29:54Speaker 01

  Commit crimes? Do it.

• 29:57David Imel?

  Yes. Uh, so yeah, it was, it was, it was very scary. And Apple basically had a very bad faith interpretation of that ruling. So what happened next was that Apple, the case kept going. And Apple basically got caught doing a bunch of malicious complacency things that the judge decided was like not, not fitting into the law that she had like told them to do. Right? So there was this injunction that came down a few days ago. And it was basically saying like, oh, you didn't listen to anything I said. You just created all these bad faith interpretations of my ruling. And now I'm going to screw you over because you screwed me over.

• 30:41Speaker 01

  You didn't learn your lesson from this? Now I need to teach you a lesson.

• 30:44David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 30:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:45David Imel?

  So there were all of these.

• 30:46Speaker 01

  TLDR.

• 30:47David Imel?

  Yeah, pretty much. A lot of internal messages that Apple had sent to one another within the company got released. And a lot of stuff that was in that was them repeatedly choosing the most like user hostile options possible to try to steer people away from doing anything off of the App Store.

• 31:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:07David Imel?

  For example, uh, Apple had to allow buttons, links, or other calls to action, which they interpreted as one of the other instead of, one or the other instead of all of them. So the ruling said buttons, links, or other calls to action. And Apple was like, Oh, so we can do a button, a link, or another call to action instead of all of them. So they created all these mockups that basically-

• 31:33Andrew Manganelli?

  That is the most lawyer thing.

• 31:36David Imel?

  They created all these mockups that showed different options where it was like, okay, we could do this, we could do this, or we could make it really, really hard for the user to be able to use this thing. And there's these messages from people within Apple where they're saying like, oh, make it scarier. Make it harder for the user. They literally said scarier. And they were sending mockups to each other and just making them more and more convoluted. And there's messages from people within Apple being like, oh, keep going. Make it even worse.

• 32:03Speaker 05

  No, it was literally, ooh, keep going.

• 32:07Andrew Manganelli?

  This also, like, I think to our audience, getting a little warning that says, are you sure you want to go there? We can't control it. Like, we've all been there. We've all done that. We click it immediately.

• 32:18Speaker 05

  You've been on the internet?

• 32:19Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah. Like, our parents, if my mom saw that, she would probably call me and be like, I think I have a virus on my phone.

• 32:25David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 32:25Andrew Manganelli?

  Without even clicking the button. Sorry, Mom, I know you're listening to this, but like-

• 32:29David Imel?

  No, 100%.

• 32:30Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, like, that's terrifying for 90% of phone users.

• 32:34David Imel?

  Yeah. Those dialog boxes are designed to stop you from doing it. It's kind of the same thing as like when you first, well, maybe this is just something I do a lot, but when you first get an Android phone and you have never sideloaded anything, you have to go into Chrome Settings and be like, allow me to install things-

• 32:45Andrew Manganelli?

  Yes.

• 32:46David Imel?

  -from not the Play Store, so that every time I go to install something, like I sideload it, it doesn't pop up the dialog box and go, okay, just so you know, this is not from the App Store. Are you sure you want to do this? And I go, yes. So, yeah. Yeah, it's designed to stop you. You know how Apple already makes it hard for you to like, open a YouTube video? Because like, open in Safari and it's that little dialog box? They like, showed that as an option for going out of the App Store, but like, no, we need to make it way worse. So they made a full page thing that said, are you sure you want to continue? With like, a bunch of scary text that didn't make any sense, that just kind of freaked people out. They also, on that, on that window, listed the developer name instead of the app name.

• 33:26David Imel?

  So it's like, Apple cannot control this anymore. It's actually in the hands of developer name, which most people do not know who the developer of the app that they're using.

• 33:35Speaker 05

  Or worse, it's like an indie developer who just goes by their real name.

• 33:39David Imel?

  Right.

• 33:39Speaker 05

  And then you're like, who's this guy?

• 33:41David Imel?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. The develop, like John Appleseed is going to be in control of your data now. It's all this stuff. There are even messages from a user experience manager at Apple who said that the phrasing sounds scary, so execs will love it.

• 33:55Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 33:56David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 33:57Speaker 01

  And then the judge is reading all this like, y'all didn't learn anything.

• 34:01David Imel?

  Yeah. Apple actually argued that scary did not mean something that would scare people, but that it was an industry term that meant raising awareness or caution.

• 34:13Speaker 01

  Duh. That's, Apple's got those good lawyers.

• 34:17David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 34:19Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 34:20David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 34:20Speaker 05

  Not, not good enough.

• 34:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, for real.

• 34:23Speaker 05

  Cause what, what, David, would you like to share what the judge said, the, the quote?

• 34:29David Imel?

  At the end of the injunction?

• 34:30Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 34:30David Imel?

  Like the Tim Cook chose poorly?

• 34:32Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 34:33David Imel?

  Yeah, I don't.

• 34:34Speaker 05

  It was something along the lines of like.

• 34:35David Imel?

  Exact thing here.

• 34:36Speaker 05

  It was something along the lines of like, you know, we gave Apple the choice of how to handle this. And he goes, and, and Cook chose poorly.

• 34:44David Imel?

  Yeah, there were a bunch of bangers in that injunction. Um, okay. So also the judge had originally, originally said that Apple could charge a fee for apps that were linked outside the App Store, but it needed to provide evidence that the company had a good reason to charge those numbers because she found that 30% wasn't actually based on anything, right? It's kind of just that random industry number that both Apple and Google decided on, and that became the number. Uh, so there are a bunch of conversations internally about what they should charge. Phil Schiller actually recommended that they didn't take any commission, which is quite surprising. But a lot of people were arguing and Tim Cook eventually was like, no, we're going to do 27%.

• 35:23Speaker 01

  27%?

• 35:25David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 35:25Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 35:26David Imel?

  So they still take a cut if you get linked to an app outside the App Store and then, or a product outside the App Store and then you, you have to back pay Apple that money.

• 35:36Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 35:37David Imel?

  Yeah. So in the new ruling, the judge was still very annoyed and said that they just came up with a 27% number out of nowhere, which was true.

• 35:46Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 35:47David Imel?

  They also restricted developers from doing things like keeping users logged in. So every single time they would use a link, they couldn't use dynamic links. They just had to use regular web links. So if you wanted to like, go to the Epic store or whatever, you'd have to log into your Epic account every time you wanted to buy V bucks.

• 36:04Andrew Manganelli?

  Or like, yeah, every time you want to buy V bucks, which as someone who's spent way too much money on skins and other games, it's pretty often.

• 36:12David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 36:12Andrew Manganelli?

  So like every time.

• 36:14David Imel?

  They're waiting for that Gojo drop. Yeah.

• 36:15Andrew Manganelli?

  Like, that's a lot and to sign in every single time.

• 36:18David Imel?

  Every single time.

• 36:18Andrew Manganelli?

  Probably in a really long password that you've changed a million times because your friends are trying to hack you for your sweet Fortnite skins.

• 36:25David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 36:27Andrew Manganelli?

  Got to stay protected out there.

• 36:28David Imel?

  Yeah. Okay. So what happens now? Apple now has to give developers zero restrictions when using buttons and links in their app to let users make purchases over the web. Because previously, when they would put that link in the app or button, as they defined it as, even though it was like a regular little web link, they couldn't put it in the standard area where you buy things in the app. They had to put it somewhere else, which is insane. Like, that's an insane rule. They can't do that anymore. They cannot take any commission for purchases made over the web, which is hilarious because the judge said, "You can, you just have to like, give me a justified number." Like, you have to justify that number and come up with reasons why that number makes sense.

• 37:09David Imel?

  And because they just pulled it out of a hat, now she's saying, "You can't take any commission anymore."

• 37:15Andrew Manganelli?

  They had a great reason. Made them a [BLEEP] ton of money.

• 37:18David Imel?

  Yeah. The value generated was incredible. Yeah. This means that tons of apps are going to start including links to sign up for their subscriptions or have microtransactions through their website. So that Apple can't take that amount because now, if you're an app developer, you can have in the app, you know, buy this thing, but then Apple takes 30%. But now you can also have, go to our store, it opens it in Safari or whatever your default web browser is, and you can pay through there. And Apple can't take any of that money now. Yeah. And they're going to tell you, "Hey, it's going to be cheaper if you go this way." Yeah. It's going to incentivize people. If they say this is 25% cheaper, the developer makes 5% more than they normally would and they don't have to pay. Apple, people are generally going to go with that option.

• 37:59Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 38:00David Imel?

  Which is kind of nuts. Like, this is a very big thing to change for the App Store. It was also found that Apple's Executive VP of Finance lied under oath about what that percentage was. Because he had said that they came up with the number over a bunch of different, like, they came up with all this reasoning and it was at the last minute. And they actually had just come up with it earlier and were like, no, we're just gonna take 27%. So she referred the California court to prosecute him potentially, which is kind of insane. Yeah, so there's a lot of drama that was going down here.

• 38:36Speaker 04

  Okay, wait, I have a question.

• 38:37David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 38:38Speaker 04

  So you're saying that they now have links that developers can put in their apps that will like open up on Safari, right?

• 38:45David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 38:46Speaker 04

  To do a thing.

• 38:47David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 38:47Speaker 04

  So in the app, can't they also incentivize developers to put like a pay with Apple Pay option?

• 38:54David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 38:55Speaker 04

  So would that still have the 30%?

• 38:57David Imel?

  Yeah, as long as the payment-

• 38:58Speaker 04

  Because it's not leaving the app.

• 38:59David Imel?

  If your payment is made within the app, Apple takes 30%.

• 39:03Speaker 04

  Sheesh.

• 39:03David Imel?

  Yeah, but if you go to like a website, then it's different.

• 39:07Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm assuming these apps are also going to like go really hard into the like, please go buy over here, you will spend way less money and-

• 39:15David Imel?

  100%.

• 39:16Speaker 04

  That's what I would assume.

• 39:17David Imel?

  We've already seen a bunch of developers do this. Spotify has already done this. Patreon is doing that this week. Fortnite, like Epic is doing it this week. They're putting Fortnite back in the App Store.

• 39:26Speaker 04

  Yeah, they're putting it back on the App Store.

• 39:27David Imel?

  In the next week, so-

• 39:29Speaker 04

  They're putting it back up. That's the news. Why didn't we-

• 39:31Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, well, no, that's what all this like boils, like, they won.

• 39:36David Imel?

  Yeah. Because the whole reason they got kicked off the App Store was because they did this. And now because they legally have to allow this, they're not violating anything anymore. So they have to allow them back on the App Store, which is crazy. So the future of this is very, is gonna be very interesting. Because if Apple can no longer take 30% on every purchase anymore because it is to the users' benefit to be able to go onto the web and buy something for cheaper, Apple Services revenue off of the App Store is gonna drop significantly. And that's like a huge portion of their revenue.

• 40:09Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 40:10David Imel?

  So.

• 40:11Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's one of the, I mean, it hits them where it hurts. That's, that's a big, a big deal for Apple.

• 40:17Speaker 04

  Very interesting.

• 40:17Andrew Manganelli?

  Does this make the App Store less appealing to new developers?

• 40:24David Imel?

  I mean.

• 40:25Speaker 01

  Why?

• 40:26David Imel?

  I feel like it makes it more.

• 40:27Speaker 01

  Makes it more appealing.

• 40:27David Imel?

  More appealing because you can use it as a platform for visibility, but then also send people out to get from your website.

• 40:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:36Andrew Manganelli?

  It also, it makes Apple have to actually like make it worth buying things within the app right there. Like, are there actual things they're doing for these developers to make it easier to pay inside the app versus going to website? Cause there are people who will pay a little bit of a premium to make like a one tap payment or something like that. But if you're charging these crazy fees, I'm always going to take the extra five minutes to save 30%.

• 40:59David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 41:00Andrew Manganelli?

  On my Galaxy Fortnite skin.

• 41:02David Imel?

  Right. Yeah. A comment that I saw online was that these indie developers and smaller developers, you could say whether or not Epic is indie or not. But they're, they're effectively subsidizing like the, a bank app, for example. Chase Bank pays a hundred dollars a year for that developer fee, and that is all they pay to Apple to host the Chase, the Chase app. And Chase gets so much more value from hosting the Chase app than like a small indie developer does who every time they have any sort of subscription or any microtransaction, Apple takes 30% of that. Like, that is insane. And so now it's sort of like evening the playing field so that everyone sort of has the same opportunity. Cause Chase is the same way, like any bank is the same way. You sign up for the bank on a web browser or whatever.

• 41:44David Imel?

  You go to a bank, you do that, you sign in through the app and it's just a portal. And that's what's going to be the case for pretty much all apps now. So, yeah. Big, big change. Uh, Apple is of course going to appeal this, but, uh, the judge did say there will not be another bite at the apple as her last sentence in the injunction.

• 42:03Speaker 01

  Is this judge a rapper?

• 42:07Andrew Manganelli?

  This sounds like a Netflix like drama.

• 42:10David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 42:10Andrew Manganelli?

  Kind of with some of the lines they're dropping.

• 42:12David Imel?

  She was really mad. She was really mad.

• 42:15Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, that's, one thing I find really interesting about all of this is like. Man, Fortnite's really been around for a while.

• 42:23David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 42:23Andrew Manganelli?

  That the fact that this is still like a big thing where they're bringing it back. And this started in 2021 when Fortnite was already huge, like.

• 42:30David Imel?

  I mean, they have Sabrina Carpenter now, you know.

• 42:32Speaker 04

  I was talking about this the other night with my friend because I hopped on Fortnite for like the first time. Actually, no, the second time ever. And he was telling me about all the new like updates that they did and all the new collabs. And I was like, is this the best game ever? Like, it is insane how big this game is and how every season people are so hyped to play this game still.

• 42:53David Imel?

  Dota two might like a word.

• 42:55Speaker 04

  I know.

• 42:55Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't know about that. Am I no one to you, Adam?

• 42:59Speaker 04

  Besides you.

• 43:00Andrew Manganelli?

  I think you could argue right off the bat and current games that are very popular have been for a long time is like Minecraft's pretty up there also.

• 43:07Speaker 04

  More than Fortnite?

• 43:08David Imel?

  Yeah, was there?

• 43:08Andrew Manganelli?

  It's been around longer.

• 43:10David Imel?

  Not yet.

• 43:11Speaker 04

  Oh, that's true.

• 43:11David Imel?

  But they have had concerts in Fortnite. Does that is that considered a movie?

• 43:15Speaker 01

  It's close. I'm just thinking about like, you know, the pantheon of like media.

• 43:22Speaker 01

  Minecraft's probably one A and Fortnite one B, I think at this point.

• 43:26Andrew Manganelli?

  It's, I mean, I don't, I don't know. Fortnite probably makes way more money than Minecraft. I'm totally guessing on that because of how many crazy microtransactions there are in that game with skins and stuff like that. But like, man, you just keep thinking Fortnite's gonna die and it's still chugging.

• 43:43David Imel?

  I mean, it is crazy. Like a lot of developers will release a game and then they maybe do like one or two seasons and they're like, we're gonna stop supporting this now.

• 43:50Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, here's the new version.

• 43:51David Imel?

  Or here's the new version where Epic is just like, yep, new things coming out every few weeks forever. But it's easy for them because they can just do all these collaborations, right? Now they have Star Wars coming out and.

• 44:03Andrew Manganelli?

  They're killing it.

• 44:04Speaker 04

  Game out. That's why I jumped on.

• 44:06Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, you did?

• 44:06Speaker 04

  I got the Luke Skywalker skin, baby.

• 44:09Andrew Manganelli?

  The fact that they can grab someone who's played the game one time to just jump on and I bet that was like a $30 skin.

• 44:15Speaker 04

  $22.99.

• 44:16Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, bro, you literally played one time, jumped on, spent $22 bucks on the V books.

• 44:21David Imel?

  I think I spent like $8.99 real life money on the V books or whatever. I don't know. They got me more or less is what I'm saying.

• 44:27Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 44:28David Imel?

  Um, yeah. So there's been a lot of, there's been a lot of tech antitrust stuff going on recently. There's a big story about how Google might have to sell Chrome. Nobody knows who's gonna buy that. If that happens, the ad tech business for Google might get broken up and have to be sold off. There's a lot of, a lot of crazy stuff.

• 44:44Andrew Manganelli?

  Seems to be the theme of 2025, along with tariffs.

• 44:49David Imel?

  Yeah. Well, a lot of this stuff started in like 2021.

• 44:52Andrew Manganelli?

  We're just getting like real things we're almost seeing. It's still, yeah, like some actual action towards it.

• 44:59David Imel?

  Okay, last little thing in this section before we go to trivia. There is a new hard drive art thingy out that I want.

• 45:06Andrew Manganelli?

  That's, I, here are my 100 bullet points and this is pretty hard drive.

• 45:12David Imel?

  Yeah. There is a company called Buffalo that is bringing back this hard drive design from 1998. It's called the Skeleton Hard Disk. Uh, and it basically shows the disk spinning on the inside. It's very pretty. It's kind of an accessory for your desktop with a little window that can show it spinning. And you can see the little, the, the disk needle moving around.

• 45:34Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 45:34David Imel?

  And there's software that makes it so that you can just make the disk needle move in different ways. And there's one where it moves like a metronome. Yeah, there's one where it moves like a metronome.

• 45:45Andrew Manganelli?

  So what it, it's like a, a standing up hard disk.

• 45:49David Imel?

  It looks like a, a wireless phone charger.

• 45:51Andrew Manganelli?

  Kind of, yeah. It's black and gold. It looks really nice. I have two huge gripes and one I think I'm, I'm hope I'm wrong about. This is an actual hard drive disk, right? Like a spinning hard drive disk. Does, we're still using these?

• 46:07David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 46:07Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, yeah.

• 46:08David Imel?

  You're not gonna store anything you care about on this.

• 46:10Andrew Manganelli?

  Some people do.

• 46:12David Imel?

  I, I, but these.

• 46:13Andrew Manganelli?

  I gotta spin it at home.

• 46:15David Imel?

  Yeah, but not gonna buy a new one today.

• 46:17Andrew Manganelli?

  I bought one new one three weeks ago.

• 46:19David Imel?

  Okay, do. Well, some people do.

• 46:21Andrew Manganelli?

  Let's, let's talk about transfer speeds with the micro USB this thing comes with.

• 46:26David Imel?

  Hey. It's

• 46:28Speaker 01

  That's USB C.

• 46:29Andrew Manganelli?

  That's micro USB.

• 46:30David Imel?

  That's micro USB. It's not just micro.

• 46:32Andrew Manganelli?

  Micro B.

• 46:33David Imel?

  Oh, micro. Oh, no. It's micro B, yeah. Okay, but look.

• 46:36Andrew Manganelli?

  This is $700.

• 46:37David Imel?

  Counterpoint.

• 46:38Speaker 01

  Jesus.

• 46:39David Imel?

  Counterpoint, if it's permanently on my desk, I don't really care what cable it's using.

• 46:44Andrew Manganelli?

  I do.

• 46:44Speaker 01

  So you're not gonna store stuff on it?

• 46:46David Imel?

  Well, yeah, I would. I probably would. Unless I used it as a metronome the whole time.

• 46:51Speaker 01

  That seems like you wouldn't want to actively break down your hard drive for the art of it and also store things you care about on it. Seems like a one or the other.

• 47:02David Imel?

  I mean, like, image storage that I only have to access every now and then, you know? Time machine. Time machine. Four terabytes. I don't know. That's what mine's for. Yeah.

• 47:12Speaker 01

  Nostalgia hits people in funny ways, you know?

• 47:15Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm not nostalgia for micro.

• 47:17Speaker 01

  Me neither. Or hard drives, to be honest.

• 47:19David Imel?

  But it's so pretty.

• 47:20Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm a little nostalgic for hard drives.

• 47:22David Imel?

  Come on.

• 47:22Andrew Manganelli?

  Not using them. They're cool.

• 47:24Speaker 01

  I had some hard drive nightmares and I was, I was so happy. I was right in the, like, age where we were growing up with SSDs for the first time, where people would buy like a 60 gig SSD to put the OS on and store everything else on the hard drive, because SSDs were so expensive.

• 47:38David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 47:38Speaker 01

  You couldn't put everything on an SSD.

• 47:40David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 47:41Speaker 01

  SSDs are so much better than a hard drive. I was like, I gotta have something on an SSD.

• 47:45David Imel?

  You put your OS on the SSD, so it boots really fast.

• 47:47Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 47:48Andrew Manganelli?

  But like, a hard drive, an SSD, I, I like plug in an external one and it's not working and I'm like, is this fine? Why is it not connecting? We're a hard drive. I know when that's not working, because it's like.

• 48:00Speaker 01

  This is true. I just feel like there's, I don't know, hard drives, I don't, I don't lust for old hard drive tech anymore.

• 48:07David Imel?

  But it's beautiful.

• 48:08Speaker 01

  I love old hard drives. I agree it's designed well. It kinda looks like an album, like a.

• 48:12David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 48:13Speaker 01

  Like a showcase for an album or something. But that's cool.

• 48:17Andrew Manganelli?

  This looks like a MagSafe charger, that's it. That you would put your phone onto.

• 48:20David Imel?

  With a clear thing.

• 48:22Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's three pounds, it's four terabytes, and if you've got $695 burning a hole in your pocket, you too could own one of these drives and plug it in via micro USB B.

• 48:34Andrew Manganelli?

  Nah, the micro B part is out.

• 48:36Speaker 01

  B is the one that's, it's micro, but it has the extra additional little prong.

• 48:40David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 48:40Speaker 01

  It's wild.

• 48:40David Imel?

  It's so bad.

• 48:41Andrew Manganelli?

  That's like the S5 came with that, but you can just plug a regular micro also in.

• 48:46Speaker 01

  It just makes it faster if you do.

• 48:48David Imel?

  Okay, counterpoint.

• 48:50Speaker 01

  Wait, to his or to mine?

• 48:51David Imel?

  To all of y'all.

• 48:52Speaker 01

  What?

• 48:53David Imel?

  Interesting.

• 48:55Speaker 05

  There is a very similar product that exists that if you just want the aesthetics of this and nothing more.

• 49:01David Imel?

  Okay.

• 49:02Speaker 05

  It is made by the company that makes those terrible headphones. Sorry. It is made by the company that makes those.

• 49:07David Imel?

  Cool headphones.

• 49:08Speaker 05

  It's made by the company that makes the headphones that David likes.

• 49:11David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 49:11Speaker 05

  KM5.

• 49:12David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 49:12Andrew Manganelli?

  Uh huh.

• 49:13Speaker 05

  They make a CD player. I believe it's called the CP2.

• 49:16Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, yeah.

• 49:16Speaker 05

  Um, yeah, the CP2.

• 49:19David Imel?

  You can't, I can just buy a CD player?

• 49:21Speaker 05

  I am in the market for a CD player and this seems like the one I want. But yeah, if you want this, but instead of a hard drive, it's a CD. It's right there.

• 49:29David Imel?

  I want the headphones and I don't want a CD player and you want a CD player, but on the headphones, why don't we just buy the bundle and split it?

• 49:35Speaker 05

  Wait, there's a bundle?

• 49:35David Imel?

  There probably isn't, but I might email them and ask them.

• 49:37Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, it's like a thousand bucks.

• 49:39Speaker 05

  No, that it's, I mean, maybe.

• 49:42Andrew Manganelli?

  Also, you need to, this hard drive, you need to enter in a drawing.

• 49:48Speaker 05

  Cause there's only 50 units. Oh, there's 50?

• 49:51Andrew Manganelli?

  50 units priced at a hundred thousand yen.

• 49:52Speaker 05

  I thought there was 500.

• 49:53Andrew Manganelli?

  Around 700. Available for purchase starting in June via lottery.

• 49:58David Imel?

  That makes it even more like you want it more.

• 50:01Andrew Manganelli?

  It's probably because they could only find 50 microbe cables.

• 50:06David Imel?

  All they need to do is have me open up my suitcase full of cables and I've got 50 microbe cables for them right there.

• 50:13Speaker 05

  That's wild.

• 50:14David Imel?

  Well, um, trivia.

• 50:19David Imel?

  It's like nostalgia. It'll hit me. It'll be like something that I cared about as a kid and I'd be like, this is beautiful. I love it. I want one like the Zune HD. Yes, please.

• 50:26Speaker 05

  I was just gonna say.

• 50:28Andrew Manganelli?

  What if it's a hard drive that looks like the Zune HD?

• 50:30David Imel?

  Then I would love it. But then as soon as it's something that I don't care about, I'm like, this is dumb. Like, why would anyone want this? Wow. I would use an HTC Thunderbolt again. If it was just like better screen.

• 50:42Andrew Manganelli?

  That was actually the worst phone.

• 50:44David Imel?

  Or sorry, not Thunderbolt, might be one M8.

• 50:47Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, I love that phone.

• 50:48David Imel?

  Or M7, one of the two.

• 50:49Andrew Manganelli?

  The play version or the regular?

• 50:50David Imel?

  Yeah, the Thunderbolt was horrible. The Thunderbolt burned a hand, burned my hand.

• 50:53Andrew Manganelli?

  It was like the first 5G, 4G phone.

• 50:55David Imel?

  Smartphone, yeah.

• 50:56Andrew Manganelli?

  And I remember having it and it died before the end of the school day.

• 51:00David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 51:01Andrew Manganelli?

  Think about how fast your phone has to die.

• 51:03David Imel?

  That was so long ago.

• 51:04Speaker 05

  You were in school.

• 51:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, I remember in fifth grade, I'd be in like seventh period biology and be like, my phone's gonna die and I don't have a way to charge it. And that would be a problem.

• 51:13Speaker 05

  You didn't have your microbe.

• 51:15Speaker 01

  And I'd be like, eh, it has its downsides. Your phone could die.

• 51:17David Imel?

  Yeah, I was trying to do Skype and one other thing at the same time and it overheated and burned my hand.

• 51:23Speaker 05

  Rest in peace Skype.

• 51:23Speaker 04

  I know, rest in peace officially Skype.

• 51:26David Imel?

  That's true.

• 51:27Speaker 05

  Wait, what?

• 51:28David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 51:28Speaker 05

  We never even got live translation.

• 51:33David Imel?

  Maybe Skype had to die for live translation to run, you know what I'm saying?

• 51:38Speaker 04

  Okay, trivia.

• 51:42Speaker 04

  Matias Duarte.

• 51:44David Imel?

  Oh, yes.

• 51:44Speaker 01

  OG.

• 51:45Speaker 04

  Is a Chilean American computer interface designer that worked on WebOS, the hip top. And then Google picked him up, obviously, to work on, you know.

• 51:54David Imel?

  Material U. What a god.

• 51:56Speaker 04

  That's it. The first version of Android that he himself worked on was what?

• 52:02David Imel?

  If it's what I think it is, that's gonna be really funny.

• 52:04Speaker 04

  Hint.

• 52:05David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 52:05Speaker 04

  This version of Android debuted on the Motorola Zoom tablet, Zoom with an X.

• 52:11Speaker 01

  It is what I thought.

• 52:12David Imel?

  I love that tablet.

• 52:13Speaker 04

  These two questions, the amount that these two understand is like 98%, the amount I understand is literally less than one. If you guess at an Android version, you will probably get it.

• 52:25Speaker 01

  You should be able to say the name instead of the number, too. That might help.

• 52:29Speaker 04

  I'll take both, but.

• 52:31Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 52:31Speaker 04

  I'll give you an extra point if you get both.

• 52:34Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 52:34Speaker 04

  Name and number.

• 52:36Speaker 01

  I review, I mean, I reviewed it, so I have no excuse not to know it, but yeah, this is.

• 52:40David Imel?

  I'm between two because of reasons that I can't say.

• 52:43Speaker 01

  I'm writing it down now so that I don't.

• 52:45David Imel?

  What about the last one?

• 52:46Speaker 01

  The last question, the first question. I'm just gonna cover it up.

• 52:50Speaker 05

  You know, if you're between two answers.

• 52:51Speaker 01

  You're twixt.

• 52:52Speaker 05

  And you're, you know, choosing which one and you're going back and forth, you could be saying that you're switching between those.

• 53:00David Imel?

  Switching between two?

• 53:02Speaker 05

  It is a switch.

• 53:04David Imel?

  You know what's funny? I thought that that joke got unfunny faster than the audience did.

• 53:12David Imel?

  You know?

• 53:12Speaker 05

  You were making it.

• 53:13David Imel?

  I know.

• 53:14Speaker 01

  Every day.

• 53:14Speaker 05

  We gotta go, we gotta go to break.

• 53:16Speaker 01

  It ended up being.

• 53:16Speaker 05

  This is, this is, this is plummeting.

• 53:18David Imel?

  Okay, all right.

• 53:19Speaker 05

  We'll see you soon.

• 53:19David Imel?

  Switch to.

• 53:36Speaker 01

  Support for the show comes from Jira by Atlassian. So AI is only as useful as the context it has to work from. But when that context is scattered across tools like threads and DMs, that means your team and your AI agents end up flying kind of blind. That's the problem Jira solves. What's the goal tied to your project? What got decided last week in Slack? Atlassian's teamwork graph pulls all of these pieces together from Jira, Confluence, Slack, GitHub, and more, so nothing falls through the cracks. With Jira, you can actually share that context with the AI agents you already use, like Claude, Cursor, and GitHub Copilot, assign them work directly, or connect your agents through MCP. Spend less time digging through endless links and DMs, less time chasing down what got decided and by who, and more time actually shipping. Learn more at jira.com.

• 54:21Speaker 01

  That's J-I-R-A dot com.

• 54:24Speaker 00

  Ask yourself, what are your best people spending their time on right now? Expense reports, receipt chasing, month-end close that takes weeks. You've become what you spend on, and that's not what you're building toward. Brex is the intelligent finance platform that eliminates that work before it starts. AI agents that handle the manual stuff automatically, so your team can spend their time on what actually compounds. It's time to get Brex AF. Learn more at brex.com/af.

• 55:00Speaker 08

  Support for the show comes from Google Gemini. You know that moment when curiosity strikes? You're exploring a new city with the family, and a sculpture catches your daughter's eye. What is that? Who made it? With Gemini, you can snap a picture and get a fully interactive breakdown of its history, architecture, and even hidden secrets. Gemini is built for moments like that. Whether you're learning something new, solving a problem, or looking for your next favorite thing, Google Gemini is here to help. Download Gemini, Google's AI app, or visit gemini.google.com to learn more.

• 55:39David Imel?

  All right, welcome back. For our last little bit, I wanted to ask our fellow hosts what they think will be more exciting this year, Google I/O or WWDC?

• 55:50Speaker 01

  I/O.

• 55:52Speaker 01

  Well, wait, can we count the like little pre-Android event the week before I/O?

• 55:58David Imel?

  Sure.

• 55:58Speaker 01

  I vote that because Dub Dub's just gonna be what Dub Dub was last year because they're still releasing the same thing.

• 56:04David Imel?

  They just re-announce Apple Intelligence again.

• 56:06Speaker 01

  They just replay the same thing.

• 56:08David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 56:08Speaker 01

  With 2024 crossed out.

• 56:10David Imel?

  Oh, yeah.

• 56:11Speaker 01

  2025.

• 56:12David Imel?

  Yeah, but, but we are getting new UIs for both of these things.

• 56:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:17David Imel?

  Remember, they're getting the, the very like Vision OS style UI.

• 56:21Speaker 01

  Glass stuff.

• 56:21David Imel?

  Glass. And then also, the new Android version is also supposed to be really glassy. That is also going to have Material 3.

• 56:29Speaker 01

  3.

• 56:30David Imel?

  Expressive. Gemini 2.5.

• 56:33Speaker 01

  Flash.

• 56:34David Imel?

  Research.

• 56:35Speaker 01

  Both could be interesting. I guess the question is, so, okay, we can do our little preview of each of them coming up. I/O is coming up first, then WWDC is coming up in, later in the summer.

• 56:44David Imel?

  June.

• 56:45Speaker 01

  Google I/O happens every year. It's Google's developer conference where they talk about all the new stuff happening on the software front. But this year, they've separated out the Android part of it, which is usually the part I'm most interested in. Because we suspect there is going to be a lot of AI, Gemini, et cetera, in the main I/O. But I'm looping both the other because I think they're both interesting. And I, I do expect a good amount of new software stuff, like we talked about with Android, with the new UI, with Material 3, Expressive, et cetera. It could be fun to watch. WWDC, we actually have some, some leaks, or at least some themes to expect according to Mark Gurman,

• 57:29Speaker 01

  which I also think are interesting. There's three main bullet points. He writes redesigned and more cohesive operating systems, which is what you mentioned with like Vision OS and the Glass. New Apple Intelligence capabilities, which to me...

• 57:45David Imel?

  But we didn't get the old ones.

• 57:47Speaker 01

  Are you adding to the list or what's happening here? And then lastly, major enhancements to the iPad's OS. It just turns into Mac OS. Now, every year, we talk, we have this discussion. The iPad gets more powerful, it gets a better chip. It does slightly more stuff, but it's never. We make the same video every year. Yeah, we do. Some YouTuber goes, can it be my computer? And then they use it for a week and they go, actually, it's kind of good at some stuff and kind of not that good. But Apple intentionally makes it a little confusing. So when I see major enhancements to the iPad's OS, it's kind of like reading Tesla Roadster. I go, oh, really? This time it's for real, huh? And I don't want to get my hopes up too high.

• 58:25Speaker 04

  But Marquez, this time will be different.

• 58:27Speaker 01

  This time.

• 58:28Andrew Manganelli?

  Actually, this video's got a pretty good shot at it.

• 58:31Speaker 01

  Oh, really? Yeah, no, I don't know what to expect by major enhancements because I feel like it could just be a different way of organizing the windows that Apple already does. Or it could be a dramatic thing that we're not expecting.

• 58:42Andrew Manganelli?

  The two rumors I read are a new menu bar and a new way of doing Stage Manager. Both of them seem to be specifically when you connect them to the Magic Keyboard, which make them feel more like a Mac.

• 58:56Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 58:57Speaker 04

  Yeah. But can I move my mouse around freely? Or will it still snap magnetically to random icons?

• 59:05Andrew Manganelli?

  I haven't used.

• 59:06Speaker 01

  It's probably gonna still snap. Yeah, well, you can move it freely between icons, but then when you move near an icon, it snaps to the icon. So like common touchpoints, yeah. Yeah. Which is actually, I thought it worked pretty well. I thought it was pretty good, actually, yeah. Yeah. It's. You not like it? I didn't like it.

• 59:21Andrew Manganelli?

  It's weird. You guys need aim assist?

• 59:24Speaker 01

  It's not that we need it. It's just that it felt good. There are certain small touchpoints, like in the corners or on like small items you'd normally touch with your finger, where it would be frustrating if you missed, so they just make sure you don't miss. So if you were going to click like a blank space next to an icon, that wouldn't have done anything. So they just snap you to the thing you were gonna.

• 59:44Andrew Manganelli?

  So like when you're using the touchpad?

• 59:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, so you got a little glowing white circle for a cursor. I don't know why, but it did work.

• 59:52Andrew Manganelli?

  I want to try. I want to like, want to go test this. Sorry, I do want to try.

• 59:55David Imel?

  I think it works pretty well.

• 59:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:57David Imel?

  I like that.

• 59:57Andrew Manganelli?

  That sounds disgusting.

• 59:58Speaker 04

  I never said it didn't work. I just want to know if I can move it however I want.

• 1:00:01Andrew Manganelli?

  I just want to know if I have free will on my.

• 1:00:05Speaker 01

  It's right between free will and determinism. Right below it. You just, you can't press the pixels next to the icon. But why would you want to?

• 1:00:14Andrew Manganelli?

  You have free will, but I know best.

• 1:00:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, you can't drive off the side of the road, but why would you want to? It's like lane assist. It's lane assist.

• 1:00:22Andrew Manganelli?

  It's aim assist. It literally is aim assist on your desktop.

• 1:00:26Speaker 01

  Cars have lane assist, so you feel yourself like, you know, getting too close to the yellow line.

• 1:00:30David Imel?

  That's true.

• 1:00:31Speaker 01

  It like bounces you back to the middle.

• 1:00:32Andrew Manganelli?

  I hate that.

• 1:00:33Speaker 01

  And on one hand, oh no, I don't have free will. But on the other hand, there's families over there that I need to not crash into. So yeah, it's like keeping you doing what you want to do. You know?

• 1:00:45Andrew Manganelli?

  Cool.

• 1:00:45Speaker 01

  Bumper bowling? I don't know.

• 1:00:47Andrew Manganelli?

  Bumper bowling?

• 1:00:48Speaker 01

  It's a thing you can do.

• 1:00:50David Imel?

  Wow.

• 1:00:50Speaker 01

  If you want to. But yeah, well, we'll see. This is all like stuff TBD this summer and I, I'm trying not to get my hopes up too high. I also, I mean, we've talked, we've had the Glass iOS discussion before. I'm not really sure exactly what that looks like, but it could happen.

• 1:01:05David Imel?

  I'm excited for the mini, mini I O for Google that's all about Android. The Android show, as they call it.

• 1:01:11Andrew Manganelli?

  What is it gonna be about?

• 1:01:12David Imel?

  Material 3 Express powered by Gemini Nano.

• 1:01:16Speaker 01

  It's gonna be the version of Android that you see on the next Pixel and only the next Pixel.

• 1:01:21David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:22Speaker 01

  Basically.

• 1:01:22Andrew Manganelli?

  Until two months after that, and then it's on all the Pixels?

• 1:01:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:25David Imel?

  Then it comes to Google Photos.

• 1:01:27Speaker 01

  But it will never be on Android phone. Like, I've accepted that I, like, we just got this one UI 8 update on, on our Samsung phones.

• 1:01:36David Imel?

  Seven.

• 1:01:37Speaker 01

  Sorry, one UI seven.

• 1:01:38Andrew Manganelli?

  I just downloaded it today.

• 1:01:39Speaker 01

  Just got it this morning. I got, very little changed, but you know, there's some new stuff.

• 1:01:44Andrew Manganelli?

  It looks pretty different.

• 1:01:45Speaker 01

  Wait, am I coming from, is this one UI 8?

• 1:01:47David Imel?

  Are you talking about this?

• 1:01:48Speaker 01

  No, seven. This?

• 1:01:50Andrew Manganelli?

  Seven. Um, the like how now you, yeah, the notifications and the.

• 1:01:55Speaker 01

  I've been on this for a while.

• 1:01:56Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, you have? Yeah, I just got it this morning. I hate that my app drawer is not pages. It's one singular sliding drawer now.

• 1:02:04Speaker 01

  Okay, so I've been on, I guess I was on, oh, I was on the beta for a while, that's why.

• 1:02:08Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm actually kind of liking, I, I know a lot of people are mad at the swipe from the right for quick settings, swipe from the left. That's cool.

• 1:02:14Speaker 01

  A little dynamic island, actually.

• 1:02:15Andrew Manganelli?

  Two swipes this time. But if you just swipe down from anywhere on the phone, then it's your notifications.

• 1:02:20Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:02:20Andrew Manganelli?

  So I think it's very specific to go to your settings top right. When do we start talking about this? I don't remember.

• 1:02:26Speaker 01

  Android.

• 1:02:27Andrew Manganelli?

  Anyway.

• 1:02:28Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:02:28Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm excited because for the last like two months, we have had to talk about some sort of court case. And now for the next essentially four weeks, we have straight. Next week is mini I O. The week after is I O. The week after that is probably all the leaks for Dub Dub and then Dub Dub. It is the next month of bangers.

• 1:02:45Speaker 01

  I'm excited.

• 1:02:46Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:47Speaker 01

  We've been, we've been in a little, a little lull this year, and I think we're finally going to get back to popping off. Everything's going to pop off.

• 1:02:52Andrew Manganelli?

  We might go four whole episodes without saying the word tariff or court.

• 1:02:56Speaker 01

  Or switch.

• 1:02:56Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't know about that. Well.

• 1:02:59Andrew Manganelli?

  Pump the brakes, Marques.

• 1:03:00Speaker 01

  We were in a lull, now we're going to be in an L M A O. You know what I mean?

• 1:03:04Andrew Manganelli?

  I, yes.

• 1:03:05Speaker 01

  I get it.

• 1:03:05Speaker 05

  Can I, uh, can I propose? It's a bunch of, a bunch of, what? You, you think I don't, you think I'm too young for L M, L M F A O? Is that?

• 1:03:13Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 1:03:14Andrew Manganelli?

  Yes, actually, the way you responded to that, I do.

• 1:03:17Speaker 05

  You think, not, look, I was a fan of L M F A O both before and after they started party rocking. Excuse me, apologized for party rocking.

• 1:03:28Speaker 01

  All right.

• 1:03:28Andrew Manganelli?

  Forward.

• 1:03:30Speaker 01

  What were you gonna say?

• 1:03:31Speaker 05

  I want to propose a over under bet.

• 1:03:34Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:03:35Speaker 05

  Specifically for I O.

• 1:03:36Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:03:37Speaker 05

  Not mini I O.

• 1:03:38Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:03:39Speaker 05

  Grandpa I O.

• 1:03:40Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:03:40Speaker 05

  Which is over under how? Many things, you know, I'm realizing I gamble so little. I don't even know if I'm doing over under right, actually.

• 1:03:48Speaker 01

  Let's play the latro.

• 1:03:49Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, you just gotta parlay the money line and.

• 1:03:51Speaker 05

  Yeah. So parlay this money line, fools. How many things will Google advertise that you can now do as a podcast or understand as a podcast?

• 1:04:02Speaker 01

  Two.

• 1:04:03Andrew Manganelli?

  So how many times do they say the word podcast?

• 1:04:04Speaker 05

  How many times are they like, do you not want to do this? Now it's a po- how many times will they turn something that's not a podcast into a podcast?

• 1:04:11Speaker 01

  One.

• 1:04:12Speaker 05

  That's seven.

• 1:04:13Speaker 01

  I don't know if we'll specifically see the podcast thing. I do think they're gonna turn everything into something different with an LLM.

• 1:04:23Speaker 01

  I actually find the podcast thing occasionally useful where you can just drop in a URL and go, give me a podcast about this and it's.

• 1:04:31Speaker 05

  You use that?

• 1:04:32Speaker 01

  I have used it. I don't use it very often, but it is a thing that's impressive that it can do. But I don't think, I think onstage they're gonna spend a lot of time showing people, developers, users, how they can either save time or do more effective deep research or whatever using these AI tools that they have. And they're gonna be everywhere. They're gonna be next to your calendar, next to your Gmail, next to your docs, next to everything they do. It's just gonna be Gemini, all the things. And maybe you can also have them turn your Gmail inbox into a podcast or something.

• 1:05:01Speaker 05

  All right, I'm, I'm setting the podcast, I'm setting the split at two. So Mark has you have, you have under, you're taking the under.

• 1:05:08Speaker 01

  Let's set it at one and a half.

• 1:05:09Speaker 05

  One and a half?

• 1:05:10Speaker 01

  So I'm taking the under.

• 1:05:11Speaker 05

  Okay, I'm going the over.

• 1:05:12Andrew Manganelli?

  Over.

• 1:05:13Speaker 01

  Over.

• 1:05:13Speaker 05

  Yeah, I think.

• 1:05:14Speaker 01

  I think it's gonna be two.

• 1:05:14Speaker 05

  Really? Podcast stuff, okay. Yeah, I think they're gonna be like, it's the feature that I see people talk about the most on the internet.

• 1:05:22Speaker 01

  They've been talking about Notebook LM, there's a whole app coming out for Notebook LM very soon and it's probably just gonna launch at I O at this point.

• 1:05:29Speaker 05

  And whenever I see people talk about Notebook LM, I, I do see people, especially on Discord, talk about like really cool things they've done with Notebook LM. But most of the stuff I see is just like. Yo, are you, do you not want to like read this entire recipe on how to make this soup? Just turn it into three chefs having a podcast where they talk about how to make the soup?

• 1:05:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, right. It is kind of cheesy after a while. But if you're that type of learner, some people are visual learners and they have a tool for that. Some people are auditory learners. Some people are podcast learners. And then they do that.

• 1:06:05Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm going to turn our YouTube comments into a podcast and that's how I'm going to gauge feedback from every episode.

• 1:06:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:11Andrew Manganelli?

  Just have a good drive.

• 1:06:12Speaker 01

  Car off the road. Three AI creators like having a riff about the podcast comments section.

• 1:06:18Speaker 05

  Wait, actually, I kind of want to.

• 1:06:20Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't want.

• 1:06:21Speaker 01

  What is this podcast right now was generated by Notebook LM. It was, but we're not supposed to be self-aware, so let's stay away from that topic.

• 1:06:28Speaker 05

  Adam, what do you, what do you have?

• 1:06:30Speaker 01

  Free will.

• 1:06:30Andrew Manganelli?

  All of our comments are bots anyway, so it doesn't matter.

• 1:06:32Speaker 05

  No, no, no, no. They're lovely, lovely people with red blood in their veins.

• 1:06:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're all doing the dishes. You think an AI can do the dishes?

• 1:06:40Speaker 05

  All it can do is make a podcast about doing the dishes.

• 1:06:43Speaker 01

  Yeah. It is funny because some of those Notebook LM podcasts like have inside jokes and will joke about things the exact same way we are. And it kind of feels like we're inside of one of those podcasts right now.

• 1:06:53Speaker 05

  Where, where do you think they learned it from?

• 1:06:56Speaker 01

  It's true. Now that I think about it, I don't remember coming into this room or leaving it. No, yeah, you're definitely in a Notebook LM podcast right now.

• 1:07:04Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't think LLMs can feel the humidity that is in this room right now. What if life is just one big podcast?

• 1:07:10Speaker 05

  Damn, that's deep.

• 1:07:11Speaker 01

  Damn.

• 1:07:12Andrew Manganelli?

  What's that show? What's that? The Truman Show? What is that?

• 1:07:15Speaker 01

  The Truman Show, yeah. Yeah.

• 1:07:17Speaker 05

  That's a podcast.

• 1:07:17Speaker 01

  Kind of feels like that sometimes as a podcast. This is season 30 of my podcast. We're going off the rails, which means, which means it's time. You know what it's time for.

• 1:07:30Andrew Manganelli?

  The trivia podcast.

• 1:07:31Speaker 01

  Trivia podcast. Not yet. No.

• 1:07:36Speaker 05

  That was, that was really good. Yeah. Um, guys, guys, guys. Yes, chef. You guys, you guys think you're so smart. Uh, well, if you're so, if you're so smart. Why do we say that? God, it's, it is really sticky in here. It's so hot in here. Did you see my answer?

• 1:07:54Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm not even gonna answer.

• 1:07:54Speaker 05

  Oh, oh, well. That's fine. It's okay, Andrew, I have a very special question just for you.

• 1:07:59Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay.

• 1:07:59Speaker 05

  Since you saw his answers, but for David and Marquez. Yes. Arrow, Metro, and Fluent are three iterations of what tech company's design language? I was not, I was not gonna get this, so seeing the answer does not matter. Well, Andrew, good for you. This was actually the second question I wrote, because I didn't like the first one. So you can answer. Oh. What? Okay. What? What was the first generation of the iPhone to have a Pro model? Well, I want to answer that one, too. No.

• 1:08:35Speaker 05

  Six.

• 1:08:39Speaker 05

  I already know that as well. Pro? Yeah. Pro. I think I know. I haven't decided, everyone can answer that question. I don't know. There's no rules. It's 90% humidity in here. There's no rules, then I'm gonna copy Marquez's answer, I suppose. No, that's, that's a rule. No, that is one of the rules. What's up? Welcome to my podcast about the rules of a trivia game that I made up. That was my Notebook LM voice impression. 10, 11? All right, David. Microsoft? Correct. iPhone 11 Pro. Also correct. I guess we're all answering. I just wrote 11, because you said. That's what I was looking for, baby. Yeah, I wrote Microsoft as well. All right, so two points for David and Marquez, one point for Andrew. Wait, wait, Marquez put 12. Wait, are we including that with the?

• 1:09:24Speaker 05

  Marquez put 12? Marquez put 12. You just assumed he got it right. Yeah, was that? Oh, man, I wish I got that.

• 1:09:33Speaker 01

  Well, wait till next week to take that point away.

• 1:09:35Speaker 05

  Did I just like blackout in the booth? I was like, oh, I put 11. Great.

• 1:09:39David Imel?

  I should have put 11.

• 1:09:40Speaker 05

  Oh, my God.

• 1:09:41David Imel?

  Cementing my lead.

• 1:09:43Speaker 01

  That is so sad. I thought that was an Andrew question, and now I just lost a point.

• 1:09:46David Imel?

  Have the eraser.

• 1:09:47Speaker 01

  Dang.

• 1:09:48Speaker 04

  Quick update on the score after that big flounder fumble by Marquez. Marquez with 21, Andrew with 12, David with 25.

• 1:09:59Speaker 01

  21.

• 1:10:00David Imel?

  You know, it's bigger than 21.

• 1:10:02Speaker 04

  22.

• 1:10:02David Imel?

  25.

• 1:10:03Speaker 01

  Well played.

• 1:10:05Speaker 04

  Was it? All right.

• 1:10:08Speaker 04

  Matias Duarte, Chilean American interface designer, worked on a bunch of bangers like WebOS and hip hop. Also at Google, worked on Android. What was the first version of Android that he worked on?

• 1:10:21David Imel?

  That debuted on?

• 1:10:22Speaker 04

  That debuted on the Motorola Zoom tablet.

• 1:10:26Speaker 05

  So fun fact, the Motorola Zoom, it's spelled with an X, and it's actually pronounced Motorola Exoom, because it was released the same year that King Tut's sarcophagus was unearthed.

• 1:10:38Speaker 05

  No, that's real, bro. That's real. I'm not making this up.

• 1:10:41David Imel?

  X.

• 1:10:41Speaker 05

  I didn't make, I didn't make up any of that.

• 1:10:43David Imel?

  What's, what does King Tut have to do with Exoom?

• 1:10:46Speaker 05

  Exoom, like, like they exhumed the tomb.

• 1:10:49David Imel?

  What does that mean?

• 1:10:50Speaker 05

  It means to unearth.

• 1:10:51David Imel?

  Oh, okay. The more you know.

• 1:10:54Speaker 04

  Flip him and read, what do we got?

• 1:10:55David Imel?

  5.0 honeycomb.

• 1:10:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, honeycomb, but not 5. Oh.

• 1:11:01David Imel?

  What?

• 1:11:02Speaker 04

  What'd you say?

• 1:11:03Speaker 01

  Wait, then.

• 1:11:04David Imel?

  Well.

• 1:11:04Speaker 04

  Don't worry, I'll explain. Andrew, what'd you say?

• 1:11:06Speaker 01

  I wrote 6.

• 1:11:07Speaker 04

  Wrong.

• 1:11:07Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:11:08Speaker 04

  Marquez?

• 1:11:08Speaker 01

  It's honeycomb.

• 1:11:09David Imel?

  Correct.

• 1:11:10Speaker 01

  The number, I, when we think about the number.

• 1:11:11David Imel?

  Was it 4.1?

• 1:11:12Speaker 01

  H I, 4.0 is ice cream sandwich.

• 1:11:14David Imel?

  Yeah. Was it 4.1?

• 1:11:15Speaker 01

  H would be 3 dot 2, maybe.

• 1:11:18Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's 3. I'll give it to you.

• 1:11:20Speaker 01

  Okay. Or 3, 3, all the 3s, yeah.

• 1:11:23Speaker 04

  Yeah, all the 3s are honeycomb, all the 4s are ice cream sandwich.

• 1:11:25Speaker 01

  Wait, so what's this?

• 1:11:27Speaker 05

  Five was-

• 1:11:28Speaker 04

  No, no, no, no. Like, what is this as a correct or incorrect answer?

• 1:11:31Speaker 05

  Cause he got honeycomb, but not 5.0.

• 1:11:34Speaker 04

  So could I just write seven answers and if one of them-

• 1:11:36Speaker 05

  I told you to just guess.

• 1:11:37Speaker 01

  You did technically guess twice and you got one.

• 1:11:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's two guesses. So if one's wrong and one-

• 1:11:42Speaker 05

  Remember I said I'd give one point for the version number, one point for the name?

• 1:11:45Speaker 01

  You did?

• 1:11:45Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:11:46Speaker 01

  Wait, do I get two points?

• 1:11:47Speaker 05

  Yeah, you get two points for that.

• 1:11:48Speaker 04

  Wait, why? He didn't write it down.

• 1:11:50Speaker 01

  He didn't put the version. Didn't know that.

• 1:11:52Speaker 04

  Wait, you didn't put the version?

• 1:11:53Speaker 05

  No.

• 1:11:53Speaker 04

  Marquez!

• 1:11:55Speaker 01

  Did you say that?

• 1:11:56Speaker 04

  I said that!

• 1:11:57Speaker 01

  No! If I had heard that, I would have written it down.

• 1:12:01Speaker 04

  15 minutes earlier. I'll take both, but-

• 1:12:05Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:12:05Speaker 04

  I'll give you an extra point if you get both.

• 1:12:08Speaker 05

  Alright, I think, I think we need it. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

• 1:12:14Speaker 05

  Thanks for coming to this episode of the Notebook LLM Podcast. Just kidding.

• 1:12:20Speaker 01

  Cause take us out. Hey, well, thanks for listening to this episode. We hope it satisfied your prompt. Let us know if you want to have another discussion and just put in another prompt and we'll make another podcast about it. The prompt section is down there. It's disguised as a comment section, but it's just a prompt for the next LLM podcast. Catch you guys next week. Peace.

• 1:12:40Speaker 04

  Wait, from us produced by Adam Malina and Ellis Rovin. We're partnered with Vox Media Podcast Network and our intro music was created by Vane Still.

• 1:12:45Speaker 05

  Bingo. Let's go.

• 1:13:02Speaker 01

  Now, the word synacticae is the meaning for one word that has, that means two different things. Anyway, this is how, so there's a, god, the backstory, it's the lamest lore ever, but there is YouTube channels that are just pronunciation guides. So if you're an English, or a English-speaking second language, you would find one of these channels and you'd find a harder pronounced word and you'd go, oh, that's how you pronounce synacticae. So it would be a very official-looking thumbnail like this, and you click on it, and then this is-

• 1:13:35Speaker 09

  Your sausage McMuffin with egg didn't change. Your receipt did. The sausage McMuffin with egg extra value meal includes a hash brown and a small coffee for just $5. Only at McDonald's for a limited time.

• 1:13:47Speaker 05

  Price and participation may vary. Promotion pricing may be lower than meal pricing.

• 1:13:50Speaker 10

  Sam's Club is the club for every holiday club. Guess who's joining the club this season? Walmart Plus. Yep, Sam's Club Plus membership now comes with Walmart Plus at no extra cost. Two memberships, one great price. Just $120 a year can save you time and over $700. Want to get in on the membership duo of the century? Visit sam'sclub.com. Come join us. Sam's Club.

• 1:14:10Speaker 11

  Annual plan only. Auto-renews. T and C apply. Estimate based on average combined Walmart Plus and Sam's Club Plus savings among members of both for 1+ year versus non-member or club member pricing/fees. Excludes membership fees. See Walmart Plus terms and Sam's Club terms for more info.