Joanna Page: I was breastfeeding on set! How to have a career and children

Gavin and Stacey’s Joanna Page didn’t want kids, until she suddenly did at 35! In this chat with Fearne, Joanna explains how she had to bring her baby on set in order to keep working as a new mum, and why she ultimately decided to focus on family over career. They chat about why it’s ok to do average – or even shit – work sometimes, and why perfection doesn’t need to be the goal. Joanna’s noticed on set that younger women seem to have much higher self-worth than she had at their age; what can we learn from their assertiveness? Plus, which Hollywood actor did Joanna fart in front of, and how did the Love Actually sex scenes work behind the scenes? Joanna’s new book, Lush, is out on September 25th. If you liked this episode of Happy Place, you might also like: Sophie Ellis Bexter https://pod.fo/e/2a124c Coleen Rooney https://pod.fo/e/280a1c Perrie Edwards https://pod.fo/e/279633 Child on the line is a three-part documentary podcast series celebrating the Volunteer Counsellors of Childline, and the brave children & young people who contact the helpline service. Listen here: https://www.childonthelinepodcast.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Hi, I'm Natalie Dormer and I'm proud to be an ambassador for Childline. This year, Childline turns 40. To mark it, I've made Child on the Line, a three-part documentary podcast. We hear why children needed a helpline in 1986, how it was built against the odds and the challenges children face today, from abuse and mental health to social media and AI. Search Child on the Line and listen wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:28Fearne Cotton?

  Hello, I'm Fern Cotton and this is Happy Place, the show that wants you to live your life on your own terms. Today, I'm chatting to Joanna Page.

• 0:37Speaker 02

  I think because me and James got married so young, I was about 25. I don't want to have kids, I've never particularly liked kids, and when I was 35, I genuinely did suddenly wake up one morning and just feel this just yearning and go, "Oh my God, I have to have a baby." And even though I desperately wanted to have a baby, when I found out I was pregnant, I felt really quite distasteful about the whole thing. I remember early on, walking into like mamas and papas and looking around and just being like, "Fuck this for a laugh." No, thank you.

• 1:10Fearne Cotton?

  How are you all lovelies? I hope you're good and well. If you're not, hopefully this really joyful chat you're about to hear will perk you up. I'm good, I like this time of year. I like getting all organised and getting my shit together. It's been very not-together because I've been having my kitchen redecorated recently and the thing I've realised is that sinks are really important. Not having a sink for the last month has been an absolute fucking nightmare, quite frankly. Every time you go to fill up the kettle, oh, there's no tap. Go to wash your hands, there's no tap. Go to wash up, I'm washing up in the bath. I've been washing up in the bath. I borrowed a crate from a supermarket to put my dirty plates in. I'm telling you, too much.

• 1:53Fearne Cotton?

  You don't need to know this, but anyway, it's a palaver. So when I get that sink back in action, I am going to be so organised, so on it, so ready for life. So that's what's been going on in my life. Hopefully more exciting things have been happening for you. As I said, this chat will really give you a spring in your step. Joanna Page, or Jo as she insisted I call her, is just an absolute gem. You'll of course know her from Gavin and Stacey and massive films like Love Actually. And now she's charted her life from growing up in a small village in Swansea to some of the biggest TV and film sets in her hilarious memoir, which is called, perfect name, Lush. Best Welsh word ever. This chat was a whirlwind. I loved it. Oh my God, we did not come up

• 2:38Fearne Cotton?

  for air. It's bum, bum, bum. Next subject, next story, go. We talked about not getting broody until your mid 30s, which was the case for Joe. The reality of pregnancy and motherhood. I know many of you listening to this are juggling motherhood and life. So you'll get a lot out of that. And just the chaos of raising kids, trying to get back to work after you've had kids, having sort of average days at work rather than amazing days. We talked about doing sex scenes back in the day, which was a very different situation to the one today. And some really good stories about Johnny Depp and Dame Maggie Smith.

• 3:20Speaker 03

  Confidence. It's listening to your gut. It's moving forward even when the path ahead is unclear. For nearly 160 years, Pacific Life has helped people keep their promises, building confidence for generations. Whether you're confident in your financial future or just beginning to envision it, we're here to help. Ask a financial professional how. Pacific Life, the power of a promise. Pacific Life Insurance Company, Omaha, Nebraska, and in New York. Pacific Life and Annuity, Phoenix, Arizona.

• 3:54Fearne Cotton?

  Hello, this is Susie Ruffel.

• 3:55Speaker 04

  And Maisie Adam.

• 3:56Fearne Cotton?

  And together we host Big Kick Energy. Hey Mais, what is it?

• 3:59Speaker 04

  Only the best podcast ever.

• 4:00Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 4:01Speaker 04

  A comedy entertainment podcast with a focus on all things women's football, all things hilarious, all things friendship. It's a laugh is what it is, Ruffel.

• 4:11Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, and a fair bit of gossiping too.

• 4:12Speaker 04

  Oh, and a lovely bit of gossip. Chow down on the gossip.

• 4:17Fearne Cotton?

  You can listen wherever you get your podcasts. You just need to search Big Kick Energy.

• 4:21Speaker 04

  Grab a knife and fork and tuck in, baby.

• 4:27Fearne Cotton?

  Right, here it is. This is the show.

• 4:50Fearne Cotton?

  Jo, I'm so happy you're on the podcast. You've given me full permission to call you Jo, not Joanna.

• 4:54Speaker 02

  Oh god, yes, Jo.

• 4:55Fearne Cotton?

  Joanna is too formal.

• 4:56Speaker 02

  I'm only ever called Joanna when my mother calls it to me and when I'm in trouble.

• 4:59Fearne Cotton?

  Okay.

• 5:00Speaker 02

  So it's just Jo.

• 5:01Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, I can't believe I haven't met you before. It seems absurd.

• 5:04Speaker 02

  I know, yes.

• 5:05Fearne Cotton?

  I feel like I know you.

• 5:06Speaker 02

  I've looked at you from afar.

• 5:07Fearne Cotton?

  Same.

• 5:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, because I thought, yeah, we had children around about the same time.

• 5:10Fearne Cotton?

  We did.

• 5:11Speaker 02

  And I used to look and see how gorgeous you looked in maternity wear. And you always had a really nice handbag. And I was just feeling really shit in the house and being sick. And going, oh my god, that's what I could look like.

• 5:21Fearne Cotton?

  No, I felt like shit too. I just had a nice handbag.

• 5:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:24Fearne Cotton?

  But we had kids within weeks of each other.

• 5:26Speaker 02

  I know, that is insane, isn't it? Oh my god, so is yours. Is he an Aquarius?

• 5:30Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. Uh, wait, no, he's a Pisces.

• 5:32Speaker 02

  Oh wow.

• 5:33Fearne Cotton?

  He's a Pisces.

• 5:33Speaker 02

  So yeah, so Eva's just gone, yeah, just over then, yeah, because my dad's a Pisces. And so it was like, oh my god, is she gonna be Pisces or Aquarius? Yeah, and so she's Aquarius.

• 5:42Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, my son's a little bit after yours, so we've got three teens.

• 5:45Speaker 02

  Yes, 12, me 13.

• 5:48Fearne Cotton?

  Interesting, interesting age.

• 5:48Speaker 02

  Oh yes, and you've got boy, I've got girl.

• 5:50Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I'm not sure what's worse.

• 5:52Speaker 02

  I don't know, because I always used to, I was looking at my kids the other day, because I've got two girls and two boys. And I did think girls are a lot harder to look after. Because my little three-year-old, she's coming up and she's kind of the same as Eva. And it's wonderful qualities, you know, going out into the outside world. But not so wonderful when you're having to parent them and look after them. Strident, forceful, stubborn, strong, you know, wanting to be the boss, being really good leaders. Not taking no for an answer, sulking, stropping, lots of drama. Which is like really good for you. Like, oh god, you're gonna be a really strong woman, you know, when you grow up. It's fantastic. But at the moment, please can you just put your, you know, socks and shoes on? Because I'm literally having a breakdown.

• 6:35Speaker 02

  So yeah, and so I thought, yeah, girls are a lot harder, but going into the teenage wise, I think boys might be, because I think my boys are quite sensitive, whereas Eva is 12, and I mean, nobody messes with her, no boys mess with her, she's solid.

• 6:48Fearne Cotton?

  It's such an interesting thing, isn't it? You know, women of our generation, we want to bring up these strong women who know their boundaries and know what they want to say to people, yet like you've just expressed, parenting them is a challenge.

• 7:02Speaker 02

  And they're clever. They're so clever. And very emotional and quite manipulative as well, and they don't let things go.

• 7:10Fearne Cotton?

  Never.

• 7:10Speaker 02

  If there's been an argument, it's held for a long time.

• 7:14Fearne Cotton?

  Months.

• 7:15Speaker 02

  And then, yeah, and then revenge always happens. Like, say she's argued with Kit, who's just underneath her at 10, she'll bide her time and I'll make sure that I talk, you know, with the pair of them, we get each side and we apologise to each other, although I've now stopped doing that because I read somewhere that you're not supposed to force an apology. You're supposed to say, let's go and find out if the other person is all right, and let's see if we can ask them, is there anything we can do to make them better? Now, that's what I'm going with at the moment, and the response normally is, no, I don't want to ask them, I don't care, I don't care if he's crying, but that's what we're trying to go for at the moment. But then she'll bide her time, she'll wait, and then an hour will go by, and then he'll get kicked in the back or something.

• 7:56Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, yeah, just a kick in the back, always does the job.

• 7:58Speaker 02

  There was a really, really bad argument, oh my god, and it wasn't even that long ago, and it was the first time I've actually seen them really go for each other, and I can't remember what the, I think it was, it started as something as simple as a noise, like he'd just been going, heh, heh, heh.

• 8:12Fearne Cotton?

  Love it when they do that.

• 8:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, and she'd sort of taken offence and gone, we'll just stop doing that, and then he'd headed upstairs to go into her room to sort of mess with it, and she knew he was doing that, so she was straight up the stairs, she caught him in there, he was terrified, he ran out, she ran after him, it all started, and I had to separate them, and I got really sad because she looked at him, they've always been so sweet together, and she went, you are a piece of shit.

• 8:40Speaker 02

  God, for starters, where she heard it from? Me? And then secondly, like, oh my god, but you used to cuddle each other, and she was like, you are a piece of shit. I just, oh my god, it's so awful.

• 8:57Speaker 02

  Oh god.

• 8:58Fearne Cotton?

  That's so great.

• 8:59Speaker 02

  I know.

• 9:00Fearne Cotton?

  Because like you've just said, anything my kids say that I think, oh, why are they saying that? Because they've heard me saying it.

• 9:05Speaker 02

  Yes, yes. And Beau has started going, oh my god, oh my god. And I just, and you have to just like filter, it's so difficult sometimes, isn't it? Because I've got to have a filter over me most of the time. And you're trying to work and it's so stressful and everything is going on. And then you've still just got to keep a filter on you.

• 9:23Fearne Cotton?

  It's impossible. Like you've just said, you, you know, we're always reading about these new methods of parenting and the things we can try. Like you've just said there, you take one kid and you say, shall we go and talk to them? And we know that this stuff is probably for the best.

• 9:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:35Fearne Cotton?

  Yet in the moment where you just want them to put their shoes on, or you just need them to eat their dinner or sit down, whatever it is. You just feel like going, just fucking do it. And you can't, you have to hold it all in.

• 9:45Speaker 02

  You have to hold it and hold it and hold it.

• 9:46Fearne Cotton?

  Sometimes you don't.

• 9:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, because yeah, because sometimes you do hold it and you hold it for like ages, for about like, you know, you've been holding it for ages.

• 9:52Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 9:52Speaker 02

  And then you can't hold it anymore. And you just go, oh my god, will you just put them on?

• 9:56Fearne Cotton?

  I had that recently.

• 9:57Speaker 02

  I'm a really shit mum because I've just exploded, even though I've just held it for the last eight weeks. I've exploded once, but that just does just shit over everything in the last 12 years.

• 10:06Fearne Cotton?

  I was in this, when I was on a holiday in the summer, I was walking down a little staircase and my kids had been arguing, same as yours, about nothing. And they were sort of being grumpy with me and I again had been holding it in, holding it in, oh, I'm going to keep smiling and doing all the great parenting. And then this, I was walking through a very small doorway and I smashed my head.

• 10:24Speaker 02

  Oh my.

• 10:25Fearne Cotton?

  And I went, for fuck's sake. And then I just lost it. And like you say, you hate yourself, you feel like you're a piece of shit, like a terrible parent. You just can't, you cannot deal with your own emotions. I'm as bad as you guys. I've just now gone down to your level of childishness.

• 10:41Speaker 02

  Yes, it's so hard, isn't it?

• 10:42Fearne Cotton?

  Why is parenting so hard?

• 10:44Speaker 02

  It's so, oh my god, you're just so stressful, isn't it? Because everything, and you love them so much, but everything is just like, it's such a heightened thing, isn't it?

• 10:52Fearne Cotton?

  So heightened.

• 10:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's just, oh my god. And then trying to do that with, like when I first had Eva, I worked just after having, so this is like now 12 years ago. And, but I was still in the mindset of, I'm an actress, you don't say no to a job. A job comes in. Say yes to everything and my birth with her was, you know, quite traumatic. I'd been sent to preview, I'd been hemorrhaging, I mean, it was just like, oh my god, it was just mad. And I was two weeks after giving birth to her and I had really low iron, I was absolutely exhausted, I was bleeding. I had cracked bleeding nipples, it was just like, I'm trying to feed her, it was, oh, it was so difficult. Then my agent phoned and said, you've got to go into London now to this audition. It's going to be like the next Mad Men, it's, you know, this thing for ITV all about the NHS starting and stuff.

• 11:35Speaker 02

  And in my head, I just thought, oh my god, no, it's the last thing I want to do, I don't want to, physically, I just can't get myself there anyway. And also, my head's just not there anymore, I just, I don't want to do it, I just don't want to do it. But I'm still like, as an actress going, yes, okay, yes, I'll be there. And so, you know, so I went down there and I got down there, you know, to start doing it and sat my mum in this hotel. Just where I went to Spotlight, which was where the audition was and everything, and I was feeding Eva on demand. Breastfeeding and I hadn't, didn't have a dummy, I hadn't expressed any milk, I didn't have a bottle. And she was just sleeping, so I just handed her to my mum and I just said, just look after her while I go and do this meeting. And mum was just sitting there just frozen going, oh my god, if this baby wakes up, I don't know what the hell I'm gonna do. I've got no milk for her, I've got no nothing.

• 12:18Speaker 02

  And then I went in and just did this audition and it's just weird because all I did was just go in there and talk about my placenta. And talk about my birth and just like, and because I didn't give a shit, I was just like, yeah, I had a double placenta.

• 12:29Fearne Cotton?

  Don't care.

• 12:29Speaker 02

  It's this big and the sack was ripping and whatever, I got the job straight away. And then by the time we got home, I walked into the house and then they phoned. And my agent went, yeah, you've got the job and then also they just offered you the part of Queen Elizabeth in the 50th anniversary of Doctor Who. So I was like, oh, yes, okay, right, I've just, I've got to do that then as well. And so then I'm off straight away filming with this little baby with me. And it's mad because, you know, as a woman, you're there and you're trying to deal with like the biggest thing that's ever happened in your life.

• 12:56Fearne Cotton?

  Madness.

• 12:57Speaker 02

  And physically and mentally and all of that, and then you're still like bomb straight into this like working. Environment which you've been in for like years and years, which doesn't cater to having a baby with you.

• 13:06Fearne Cotton?

  God no.

• 13:06Speaker 02

  And you're trying to struggle and, you know, with all of that and, oh my god, it's just so difficult.

• 13:10Fearne Cotton?

  It's so, so bonkers. Again, like you say, when you're programmed to always say yes and go. I won't turn down this opportunity, that you push yourself that much. I mean, I did exactly the same and it is. Absolutely wild. I mean, you did make a decision a bit further down the line to say, "Actually, do you know what? Enough's enough. I don't want to work for a bit." That must have been a big scary gear change.

• 13:32Speaker 02

  Well, it wasn't. It was just a complete and utter relief. I'd done Doctor Who, right, and I was breastfeeding and I was in this corset and they were gorgeous, right? They were really lovely and they couldn't have been nicer, but I was adamant that the baby was going to be with me on set and this is what I'm doing. But, you know, oh my god, I would be in a hotel in Cardiff. I'd be cluster feeding all the way through the night. She'd finally finish at about four in the morning and then at five in the morning, I'd have to get up, go on set, have my red wig put on, be shoved into this huge big corset with these boobs which has got bigger and bigger and bigger as the day went on. I couldn't remember any of my lines because my head was all over the place. Lunchtime would come and I'd go into my trailer, I'd feed for half an hour, express for like 25 minutes, have one mouthful of food and then go back on set.

• 14:15Speaker 02

  And then after you feed, you just want to catch them. I just, I was just like, but I just want to be with her. And everybody would say, "Well, she's not even going to remember, you know, it doesn't matter." But you're like, "But I will remember and this is my experience as well." And then you're on set and you can't remember your lines. You're playing Queen Elizabeth with a Welsh accent. I know. And I was just like, you know, and they were all gorgeous, but I've got like Billy Piper, there's Jenna Coleman, David Tennant, John Hurt, and you're there and you're doing Queen Elizabeth with a Welsh accent and you can't remember your lines. It's really embarrassing.

• 14:47Speaker 02

  And so I got through that, but we tried to make it work and it was just awful. And then I got to doing Breathless then, this thing for ITV. And, oh my god, I was starting to shift in my head. I was starting to just be a bit more like, you know, I just want to think about me. I just, I don't know, I was starting to harden and just go, "It doesn't mean as much. It doesn't mean this whole acting world, which has been my everything. It's been everything and it just doesn't mean anything to me anymore." And then we got to doing Breathless and I was just, you know, we'd be in the middle of filming a scene and I'd be like, "Oh my god, I can hear my baby" because mum would sort of be coming to set and even would be crying. And I'd just stop a scene in the middle of filming and go, "I'm sorry, I've got to stop. My baby's coming. I've got to feed her." And then I'd take myself off for about half an hour and leave everybody waiting for me. They were really sweet about it, but when you're filming, everyone's a bit like...

• 15:33Speaker 02

  You know, when, when are you going to be finished and stuff? And I'd be like, I don't know, I don't know when I'm going to be finished. But by the time I got to the end of that, I was like, I'm done, I'm absolutely done. I don't care what anybody says. I don't care if I'm getting asked to do auditions. I don't care if it's, you know, bad or whatever. I don't care if I'm going to completely ruin my career because I'm just stepping away from it. When it's doing really well at the moment, I'm quite prepared to do that and what will be will be. And then I topped myself off for about seven years.

• 15:58Fearne Cotton?

  I think that's amazing because there's so, you know. Even when I sort of decided to not really do TV anymore and I was like, it's just not working for me. There was a huge part of me, largely ego based, that was like. That forms a lot of my identity. That is how I identify as I am a TV presenter. What the hell am I meant to? Think about myself without that there. And I don't think I valued myself in other ways as much, you know. Being a friend, being a mother, you know, just being a human being. All of my self-worth was wrapped up in. Achievement and what I was seen to be doing. Did you have any of that going on?

• 16:35Speaker 02

  No, I didn't. I never thought, and I, and I did have to put up with then when I came back to work. People saying to me, oh God, you know, do you feel bad that you never became as successful as Martin Freeman and. And Martin's absolutely gorgeous, you know, but as a woman and taking time off and you know that then you're going back into the profession. It's just not going to be as easy as it was before. It's really hard. You're not getting the meetings as much or you're not getting the jobs as much and you've got to basically go, right, okay, I'm going to start from scratch again. But I never felt, you know, worried like that was my whole identity because I think I just got so wrapped up in Eva. And being a mother and still now, like being a mother is sort of my whole identity. And I know when they grow up and. They go to whatever they want to go off and do. I know I'll be cool because I'll be so bloody exhausted by then.

• 17:20Speaker 02

  And I'll be pushing 60 when I think Bo gets to about like, you know, 13 and teenage years. So I think I'll be more than ready to go, okay, now I am just going to be me. But I think I just sort of just went boof and just, you know, converted myself over to, no, my entire identity is mother. And I don't care, I don't, I don't care about acting or anything anymore.

• 17:39Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, it was so interesting reading your, your whole life story in your book, but that broodiness, that desire to be a mum didn't kick in until you were in your mid 30s. It wasn't like from day dot, because I think I was broody from about 18. I was like desperate to have a baby. But you were kind of settled on, I probably won't have kids. Now you've got four.

• 17:57Speaker 02

  Yes, I know.

• 18:00Speaker 02

  I think because when I grew up, I was an only child, so I wasn't really used to being. I mean, I had my cousins and stuff, but in my house, there weren't like lots of babies or I didn't have siblings. And I was really quite happy just being me. I loved my own company and I wasn't like, oh my God, I want to have loads and loads of friends or anything. And then mum with all of her, you know, problems with like miscarriages and ectopic pregnancies and, you know, there was always that sort of going on. So that was always kind of in my head, but it did never frighten me into going, oh God, I'm a bit too scared to have children. But I just never felt maternal, because we'd never really go to a cafe and sit there and go, because like me now, if I see kids and they're screaming or they're crying or babies, I'm always like, oh my God, they're just gorgeous, they're so lovely.

• 18:39Speaker 02

  But we'd go to a cafe and it would just be like, oh God, the noise or, you know, just, you know, it was just, it was just nothing maternal really about me at all. And I loved animals and I was just more concerned about, I just wanted to have my dog and I was happy with her. And I think because me and James got married so young, I was about 25, that having a baby and stuff straight away was just not in my world. I was quite happy, we were married, we had our dog and we were like young actors and it's just like, oh my God, jobs are coming in, life is fun, I'm really young. I don't want to have kids, I've never particularly liked kids, not in the least bit bothered and actually genuinely didn't feel maternal. And mum would say, oh, you'll get to mid twenties or you'll get to 28, so you know, and then it'll kick in and it just never ever did.

• 19:23Speaker 02

  And so I was just quite happy and James said, he never ever said to me, can we have children? We never really had a discussion about kids and he said he just thought that he knew a time would come when I'd go, oh God, I just want to have children. And when I was 35, so I must have been like 34, 35, I genuinely did suddenly wake up one morning and just feel this just yearning and go, oh my God, I have to have a baby. Wow. And it was this whole thing, like literally just this overnight, just like, oh my God, I have to have a baby. And then luckily I fell pregnant straight away and even though I desperately wanted to have a baby, when I found out I was pregnant, I felt really quite distasteful about the whole thing. It, I was just kind of like. God, I just, oh my god, it's just quite, I just feel really weird.

• 20:07Speaker 02

  This just feels odd and it just feels really quite horrible, even though I want it. I feel really quite, oh, I don't like this, I don't like it at all. And then it's six weeks, like morning sickness kicked in and that was horrific because it was like I had the flu. I mean, my arms and my shoulders and it was just like I was throbbing with the flu and just feeling sick all day. But I remember early on, walking into like mamas and papas and looking around and just, just literally just being like, fuck this for a laugh. Um, no, thank you. And walking out and just finding it all, and all the way through, right? Up until the day before I gave birth, I said to James, what if I don't love this as much as I love the dog?

• 20:43Fearne Cotton?

  I remember feeling like that. How can I love this baby as much as my cats? Because I was so obsessed with my cats. Obviously you do, but you can't imagine it.

• 20:50Speaker 02

  You can't. I was like, I don't know how I can, what if I don't love this as much as I love Daisy? And, um, and he said, if you don't, it's absolutely fine. I'll just do everything. Just give me the baby. I'll just do everything. And then the next day, when I gave birth, I was just like, oh my god, I put her on my shoulder and I just, I don't think anybody else like held her for about a flipping year or something. I was just like, oh my god, just, you know.

• 21:11Fearne Cotton?

  Inexplicable.

• 21:12Speaker 02

  Oh my god, it's mad, isn't it?

• 21:13Fearne Cotton?

  Mad moment that you can't even look back and comprehend. Like that feeling is just so mad. But I think it's really good to hear about pregnancies and birth stories like that where you're not just like, oh, I'm pregnant. Look at me feeling all great, whatever. Like morning sickness is shocking. I had it so bad. It is, I was like Googling other women's stories to see how they sort of survived it. Because I felt so, so, like it was debilitating sickness and you just think, no one else has ever felt like this. How do I get through it?

• 21:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:45Fearne Cotton?

  Not every pregnancy is like, oh my god, I'm just blossoming and looking gorgeous.

• 21:50Speaker 02

  And morning sickness isn't just like for some people, you throw up once in the morning and then you're fine. It's all day, all through the night and it's really awful. And then, when you're then, you know, with like other pregnancies, when you've got like two other little ones and you, you're pregnant again then with your third one and no one gives a shit about you doing the pregnancy. Because everyone loved me during the first one. Second one, it was kind of like, oh, you okay, but you know. Third one, nobody gave a shit at all. And I'm standing there trying to do breakfast and I've got the smaller ones. I've got no pelvic floor left anyway. And I am being sick into the kitchen sink whilst also wetting myself in front of everybody. I'm like, oh my god, this feels so, so bad. But also with the other pregnancies, I was always very pleased when I did get pregnant because.

• 22:32Speaker 02

  I basically was just like a milk machine and I breastfed for a long, long time just because I loved doing it. And I think I did give my whole identity over like, I am mum, I am just mum. I am boob. I am boob. So I always sort of like kept my weight and sort of like, because I'm always feeding and I'm always bloody ravenous and I was always feeding. And so when I then got to be pregnant again, it would be really good because on the last one with Beau, I think I found out and I was about, my god, six weeks pregnant and I went straight into as if I was like full blown, you know, four months pregnant, put the clothes on straight away and I could just go, oh, um, yeah, you know, I'm pregnant. Because the amount of times that men, and it was always men, would come up to me and go, oh, when's it due? When I'd have to go,

• 23:16Speaker 02

  it's not in here, it's in the pram. And I don't know why it's like, it's like, oh my god, I remember the first time somebody ever said that to me and Eva was in the pram. Wow. And this man, he came up to me and he went, oh, when's it due? And I was like, it's in the pram. Oh god, just don't say it. Don't say it. But yeah, so like, yeah, you know, pregnancies and everything, they're just like, and the first one is hard, but then when you get on to the other ones and then you've still got the other ones to look after and you're working at the same time. It's wild.

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• 25:06Speaker 07

  Help I Sexed My Boss is the podcast where manners meets mayhem. I'm William Hanson.

• 25:11Speaker 08

  I'm Jordan North.

• 25:12Speaker 07

  And together we take on the hilarious challenges of modern life.

• 25:15Speaker 08

  William's the arbiter of etiquette.

• 25:17Speaker 07

  And Jordan's the chaotic yin to my perfectly polished yang.

• 25:21Speaker 08

  So if you want laugh out loud stories and brutally honest moments, then you'll love Help I Sexed My Boss.

• 25:27Speaker 07

  Watch and listen every Tuesday and Friday.

• 25:29Speaker 08

  On YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts.

• 25:32Speaker 07

  Just search Sexted.

• 25:33Speaker 08

  Be warned, it's a bit rude.

• 25:39Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, you've got four kids now. The youngest is four.

• 25:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, three. She's turning four in December.

• 25:44Fearne Cotton?

  Okay, so she's nearly four and then the eldest is 12.

• 25:47Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 25:47Fearne Cotton?

  You've got your book out, you've got a book tour about to start. How is the overwhelm?

• 25:54Speaker 02

  Oh, my God, right. It's hard. I mean, I've got to be honest, I'm looking forward to the book tour, right? Because and I and then it was like, do you feel mum?

• 26:00Fearne Cotton?

  Bye, everyone.

• 26:01Speaker 02

  Bye. Mummy's going and I'm going to have room service and a bed that I'm sleeping in on my own.

• 26:06Fearne Cotton?

  Yes, heaven, heaven.

• 26:08Speaker 02

  And because I've never, I don't really leave them for like, you know, a long time, like Gavin and Stacey, the finale one, I went down to Cardiff, we were there for six weeks and it's the longest I'd ever left them. And I was popping back at weekends. And, you know, and I, and then I thought that the breastfeeding would dry up then with Beau, because I thought, I'm not feeding her now through the week. I'll be back at the weekends and she'll probably, you know, like, grow out of it and stuff. Oh, my God, I go back at a weekend, walk through the door and the first thing she'd say is, I want boob. And she'd be straight on that boob all the way through the weekend. Then I go back and then she'd have nothing through the week. And that's what it was like. And so she managed to keep it going all the way through. So I got back from Gavin and Stacey and she was back on that boob full time, which was just insane.

• 26:46Fearne Cotton?

  But that is so fluffy because when you're on set. Obviously, there are demands there. People are saying, Jo, stand here, do this. Have you got the lines? Let's go again. It's non-stop. And then when you walk in the door, that could be the moment you go, "Oh, I'm gonna have a bath", whatever. But you're a mum.

• 27:01Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 27:02Fearne Cotton?

  There's no transition. It's like you've gone from that to you are now a boob and a mum. Let's go. It's draining.

• 27:07Speaker 02

  And it is. It is just, it is so overwhelming, just like the noise and the demand. And then, because I mean, I would say now that this is the first time that I've really gone back to work and been looking after the kids all at the same time, because I've just taken so much time off work. And it's kind of like, I don't know how you're supposed to do it. And I'm always, I've always been a perfectionist and I've always wanted to give everything 100%. And I'm always like, no, go, go, go, go. And I'm always gonna do it. And I've just sort of, this year, given myself permission to kind of just go, fuck it.

• 27:38Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 27:38Speaker 02

  I'm going to slow down and I'm going to take things at my pace because I am always rushing to get it done at this time, to do this as well, to do that. And I kind of thought, you know, what happens if I just don't? If I just go, no, you're just gonna have to hold on for a minute with that deadline. I'm just gonna take it at my own time. And then also, I watched, I listened to Mark Dolan doing an interview. And he did this thing all about doing shit work. And it's really stayed with me. And that is what I have been doing. Well, fingers crossed, right, this is not gonna be classed as shit work.

• 28:12Fearne Cotton?

  No, no, the book is great.

• 28:13Speaker 02

  I go into stuff thinking, just do shit work, because I've got this whole thing about being perfect and about being the head girl and the golden girl. And everything's always perfect and I do a good job. And Jesus Christ, it's like, give me a break.

• 28:26Fearne Cotton?

  It's impossible.

• 28:26Speaker 02

  You know, just do shit work. Just go and do what you can do. And then I think to myself, because at the end of the day, when I am on my deathbed dying, I am not going to be going, oh, I'm so pleased that I got that deadline in on time because it really makes a difference that I played that part at such and such. I'm not. I'm gonna hopefully have my kids around me and go, I love you all.

• 28:44Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. And you're gonna look back and you're gonna remember the bits that were fun and spontaneous and like those big moments. I think about that all the time because I'm exactly the same. I sometimes feel like I'm just doing everything so badly, parenting, working, socialising, like I'm just failing at all of it. Because we're all trying to do too much. And I... Certainly with work, I've always been so, exactly what you've just said, I wanna be on time, I wanna do the best job, I wanna have done the research, turn up, be on my A game, I want the little high afterwards of, yeah, that was fucking great, the interview went well. Some days are average, which used to be my worst nightmare, like, oh my god, not an average day, where things were just kind of okay. And now I'm like, do you know what? Give yourself a break, have an average day where you sort of do an okay-ish job, and your parenting is

• 29:29Fearne Cotton?

  sort of all right at the end of the day, and you're okay, making the breakfast you made them was below average, probably. Like, who cares? We're putting so much pressure on ourselves.

• 29:40Speaker 02

  We are, and it's so hard, and I know it sounds ridiculous, because I am on Instagram, and I love having a good old look at everything and stuff.

• 29:45Fearne Cotton?

  Me too.

• 29:46Speaker 02

  But in the end, I just had to take all of like the parenting apps, because when I was pregnant with Beau, I was following all of this and that, and for the food and for the whatever. And in the end, my god, it was making me feel so bad, that I just had to just go, right, I'm just gonna have to take everything off. And when I was growing up, it wasn't like this. I'd go out on my bike, I'd be, you know, I'd be having microwave tuna pasta bakes, which I still really, really love. And it's kind of like, what's the worst that ever happened to me?

• 30:10Fearne Cotton?

  I know. Parenting back then was so great.

• 30:13Speaker 02

  It was.

• 30:14Fearne Cotton?

  It was like, go to school, see you when I see you, bye.

• 30:17Speaker 02

  But as a woman, it's like, my god, how are we expected to do it all? And then also, the way we are now, most of the time, we don't even live next to our family. I don't, because I had to move from Swansea. And so, you know, I was like thinking when we were packing to go on holiday, and I've got the four of them running around going berserk. And if I just was still in Swansea, which I can't, because that's not where, you know, my work is, I'd be like, right, all of you, I'm picking you up from school, you're going to Nanny and Bampers, they're doing your tea and you're sleeping over tonight.

• 30:42Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 30:43Speaker 02

  And then I'd go home, me and James would probably be able to have a drink, watch something on the telly, and I'd be able to pack leisurely. But we just can't do that, because it's like on the go, all the time.

• 30:51Fearne Cotton?

  This nuclear family setup that is so normalized now, puts so much pressure on, usually the woman.

• 30:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:57Fearne Cotton?

  But so much pressure on that we're meant to be doing it all, keeping on top of it all, without that support of The grandmas, the aunties, the neighbours, who, you know, we always used to chat to our neighbours. Nobody does that anymore.

• 31:07Speaker 02

  Yes, nobody does that.

• 31:08Fearne Cotton?

  Unless you're lucky and you live in a quaint little village somewhere. But more than likely, everyone kind of lives a separate life, certainly in big cities and towns. So there is all of this pressure and then you work on top of it and the expectations and. And also, you know, with a show like Gavin and Stacey where it's all eyes on you. Everyone's waiting for that moment at Christmas where they get to sit down as a family and watch it. You've also got that added pressure of everyone having an opinion of you, your performance, who you are as a person. It's like even more long time.

• 31:36Speaker 02

  Well, it was terrifying, kind of going back to the finale because we'd done the other special, oh my god, which was about in 2018.

• 31:42Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 31:42Speaker 02

  But then, my god, I had, I'd had Beau in the period then, before then we went back to do the finale. And I was really, god, I was quite scared when I went back because on the last one in 2018, I still, I didn't look, you know, like when I was playing Stacey at 29. But I was still kind of like, oh look, there's Stacey, how we all kind of know her. And maybe other people don't think this, but in your own mind, you kind of do because you are with yourself all the time. And I'm quite happy with myself, but it was the first time I was kind of going back to playing Stacey. But now as a mum of like a really little one, so I'm, and I'm still feeding, I'm still, that's where my head is. I'm not remembering my lines as well as before, I'm still feeding, I'm bigger than I was before. And I don't mind that, I'm perfectly happy with who I am, but I do not look like what I looked like before.

• 32:24Speaker 02

  And suddenly you're there and it's so pressurised because there was such a huge expectation with it as well. So you're really, really scared anyway. And I just remember going into the read-through room and there were so many people in there. And it was like, oh my god, and it was all so built up. And then I had the first lines and I just remember thinking, oh my god, like I'm breastfeeding, they've sucked me dry anyway. They, it was like they've literally sucked my whole soul out of me. What if I open my mouth and Stacey doesn't come out? I don't know, there's just like, nothing's gonna come out. And then I opened my mouth and she did come out, thank Christ for that. But it was all absolutely fine, but all of this is going on and on and on in your head. And it's just, it's really, it's hard.

• 33:03Fearne Cotton?

  I know.

• 33:03Speaker 02

  But also really good fun because, I mean, it was a laugh.

• 33:05Fearne Cotton?

  So great.

• 33:06Speaker 02

  And even though I was away from the kids for six weeks, I do have to say, I had a ball.

• 33:10Fearne Cotton?

  I believe you did.

• 33:11Speaker 02

  I gave myself, I think. It was two weekends where I went, I'm not coming home, I'm giving myself a weekend. And on that weekend, oh my god.

• 33:18Fearne Cotton?

  What did you do? What did you get up to?

• 33:19Speaker 02

  I went, well, I didn't go anywhere. I just stayed in the hotel room because I just love having just peace and quiet and I don't have to do anything. Don't have to speak to anybody. I don't have to do anything and I can basically just sit and eat and watch the telly.

• 33:31Fearne Cotton?

  That's the best thing ever.

• 33:32Speaker 02

  Amazing. And, and because there was a period when it first began and I just bought um like an exercise bike. And I was, and I was quite into it and like, oh my god, this is really quite good. It's giving me energy. And then I was debating. Oh god, shall I get it like shipped up to the, well, down or cross to the hotel in Cardiff? And then they were like, yeah, yeah, why didn't you do that? And I thought, oh my god, I can't because I think I'm gonna look like a right idiot. And that's just a bit too much, like, you know, Joe Page gets an exercise bike shipped to her hotel room. Even if nobody else knows, that's gonna sit with me and make me feel weird, right? So instead I went the other way and I was like, I'm not leaving the hotel room. I'm gonna sit, I'm watching Saturday night telly. I'm ordering a huge steak, I'm having chips, I'm ordering loads and loads of side things. And I'm having just like a massive big bottle of red wine and I'm just gonna sit and eat and watch the telly.

• 34:16Speaker 02

  And I did that for a whole weekend and it was gorgeous. Two weekends I kept to myself. Because yeah, because me and James, we don't do date nights, we don't do anything like that. So. I kind of feel a bit of mum guilt because you always do, but I have kind of sacrificed so much to them, which I love and I don't mind. You know, we don't have date nights, we don't, you know, whatever. We end up, you know, going through and then end up becoming like strangers, then having a huge bust up. And just going, oh, this is ridiculous. You don't talk to me and well, you don't speak to me and blah, blah, blah, blah. And then a big bust up and then somebody will look after the kids and then we'll go and have a coffee together. Or like one morning and we'll have a drink or something. And then we sort of get back together again. And then we carry on like for the next few months until that happens. And probably what would be even better is we just went, let's just do a date night on a Thursday and that might just make it better.

• 35:01Fearne Cotton?

  Yes, it's so important. But also to have a date with yourself, like being in a hotel room and drinking red wine in front of a TV. I can't think of anything I'd rather do.

• 35:11Speaker 02

  And you know what? The other day, oh my god, I'd been doing lots of work, but I'd been fast and I'd been good. And so I'd finished early and then I didn't have anything to do the next morning because I got it all done. And, and nobody was in the house. The kids had gone. And they were staying with my parents and James was away, he'd gone up north and oh my god, I was on my own in the house. And it was kind of like, I felt a bit like, oh my god, I just feel like, I just wanna just go and do something and I wanna go fuck it, I wanna just go and, you know, do a parachute jump or do something wild and something mad.

• 35:43Fearne Cotton?

  A parachute jump.

• 35:44Speaker 02

  You know when you've just had to like censor yourself for so long and you're suddenly on your own and you just feel like, oh my god, I wanna roll in the mud and just, get all, ah, like that, right? And in the end I didn't, but I put music on in the kitchen. But it always has to be when I'm on my own, just something like, either like real funk or, you know, like Snoop Dogg. Or just something just a bit dirty and then I'll find myself like humping the kitchen table leg or, you know, something just to get yourself out of just, being like mum all the time.

• 36:11Fearne Cotton?

  Being nice little mum.

• 36:12Speaker 02

  Oh my god.

• 36:13Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, release like the inner dirtbag. It's so important. We have to, if we keep suppressing that inner dirtbag, it's bad news.

• 36:20Speaker 02

  It is, it is.

• 36:21Fearne Cotton?

  Put Snoop Dogg on and release the inner dirtbag, it's so good. Do you know what, I, I, I knew enough about you from following you on Instagram and, and watching, being a big, big fan of Gavin and Stacey, I mean, it's just, I'm so fond of it. It feels like such a part of, you know, we've all kind of grown up watching it throughout, well, for me, it was sort of like, I guess, my twenties and just,

• 36:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:41Fearne Cotton?

  threading through all of these different memories, but I didn't know so much about your earlier life.

• 36:45Speaker 02

  Yes, yeah.

• 36:47Fearne Cotton?

  You went from being an only child in Wales, cosy childhood, you know, sort of great relationship with your family and your relatives nearby, to RADA, which is a hardcore drama school, very famous drama school, loads of alumni have gone on to do incredible things in the acting world. But it was really quite traumatic, I hadn't realised for you.

• 37:10Speaker 02

  It was awful. I was obsessed with Kenneth Branagh and I'd read his autobiography and I was like, I had this romantic view of what RADA would be like and I was just like, oh my god, it's just gonna be wonderful. And the auditions had been amazing and, you know, everything had been great and I was so geared up and so ready for it. And it was just awful because it was all very much for the method and Stanislavski and this, but this is the only method you do for acting. We don't do anything else and if this doesn't work and if you can't do it, you're shit, you can't act, you're shit, you can't act. And it was just basically breaking us down. But they don't build you back up again. And it was such a shock anyway to kind of get to London. I was so naive and so innocent. I'd just turned eighteen, I'd never lived away from home before.

• 37:53Speaker 02

  I mean, the minute that I got to like the halls of residence, I'm in some fellas, locked in some fellas flipping room.

• 37:59Fearne Cotton?

  I can't believe that story.

• 38:00Speaker 02

  I don't even know if it was his room, because I never ever saw him again.

• 38:02Fearne Cotton?

  So this is a random guy that just went, do you want to come into my room?

• 38:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, I went to the toilet and I was coming back and he said, oh, do you want to come and have a look at my um holiday photos? And in my head, I thought, no, of course I don't, I don't know who you are. But I was like, oh yes, of course, you know, thinking, well, I don't want to be rude. And I went back to his room and then went in, he shut the door and he wouldn't let me out. And, and I just remember sitting and he said, sit on the bed. And I sat on the bed and then he started showing me these photos. And he was like, oh, I was buying drugs here and then I was doing this here. And I just remember thinking, oh my god, what am I doing? This is just, I want to get out. And then he turned the radio on really, really loud. And then he said, and I tried to get out. And he said, you can't get out now, nobody can hear you. And eventually he let me out and I ran back to my room, to my parents. And it was just like, I was so terrified and so naive and just so, but I was open to learning and I wanted to be there.

• 38:47Speaker 02

  And I mean, it was, it was brutal. It was horrible. They were really, really awful. And what's been nice is that I thought that that was just my experience. But since then, listening to what like Daisy Mae Cooper has said, she was like a good load of years, you know, after me. And my god, her experience was kind of like the same as mine. And then also listening to Phoebe Waller-Bridge, when she talks about the same stuff and what they were like with her. And it just makes me go, oh my god, it wasn't just me then. It wasn't just, you know, just what happened to me. That's basically what it was like there at that period in time.

• 39:16Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, like, is it better now, do we think?

• 39:17Speaker 02

  I don't know, because I've never ever set foot back in there again. But it's not, it's a degree course now, not just a diploma. And I know that lots of the teachers just aren't there anymore. But talking to my husband, James, he was at Lambda. And he said they never ever said to him, oh, you're shit, or you can't do this, or you could just fail. And then you try something else. And it was just like, oh, we all love acting, let's just play, let's just act, let's have fun. And he just remembers it as being like full of fun. But RADA was brutal.

• 39:42Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, like you say, they're knocking you down, they're not picking you back up. And then on top of that, you've got auditions where again, you know, perhaps some of this is creating resilience, but in a really harsh way.

• 39:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:53Fearne Cotton?

  But you're going to audition. And actually you say not only is it then sort of scary having that potential rejection, but also you felt quite vulnerable in a lot of those situations.

• 40:01Speaker 02

  Oh god, yes, it's, I mean, when you think back to it now, it really is strange when you first come out, because, you know, you're 21, you don't know anything, and, you know, and it's, you are, you're just really, really vulnerable. And you go to auditions and most of the time, you know, you turn up to a hotel, they say, right, go to this hotel, just give your name. And then, you know, somebody take you up to a room, you go into a room in the hotel. And then there's normally, you know, the cameraman and there's a producer. And then there's, you know, a director, it's all men in there and you just go in and you just kind of, just kind of hope for the best really, and hope it's gonna be okay. But the amount of times when I'd find myself going to the back of beyond, you know, to go to an audition, or you'd, you know, be doing a play or something and then somebody would either make a pass at you or come in and try and talk to you and just loads of different uncomfortable situations.

• 40:42Speaker 02

  Oh my god, filming sex scenes, where getting through those is just difficult enough as it is. But when I was younger, you just had to get on with them. You read the script and you don't really talk about it that much, you just start filming and you would just make it up on the spot. And I remember do, just doing this one particular one. And, and I didn't even really feel awful about it afterwards, because that's just the way that it was. You didn't have intimacy coaches or anything.

• 41:05Fearne Cotton?

  No, now that's a must, isn't it, you have an intimacy coordinator and that's all choreographed.

• 41:09Speaker 02

  And I mean, we just sort of, we read through the scene, we're supposed to be kissing. And then we start filming it and then halfway through, I realised he was just trying to pull, you know, my top down and my clothes off. And, and I didn't even think to stop it, I just remember thinking, oh my god, the only way you can stop this is to put your arms in the air and hold on to the banisters. Because I was more concerned, I thought, I am not getting my boobs out on the telly. And that's what my concern was, was running this tiny little negligee thing with these really heavy chicken fillets. And I thought, if that goes, the whole thing's just gonna go boom and just fall down and that's gonna be worse. And as I'm dealing with that, I suddenly realised he was humping me. And I thought, oh my god, now we're having sex, we're pretending to have sex. And then they shouted, cut, and I didn't even really think anything, I just thought, okay, right, okay, I've just got to basically just get through this.

• 41:51Speaker 02

  And just kept filming and filming until we got to the end and then that was it, we finished the scene and then we moved on to the next one. And it was just kind of like, well, that's, you know, that's just the way that it is.

• 41:59Fearne Cotton?

  It's so, it's so crazy, because I think, you know. That era of TV, of how the magazines worked, you know, I think a lot of us who are new in the game did feel like we couldn't say no to certain situations, or this is just normal, so therefore it's the accepted.

• 42:14Speaker 02

  And you kind of didn't even know how to say no.

• 42:16Fearne Cotton?

  No, no.

• 42:16Speaker 02

  Because I remember being on this one telly job, and you know, this fella just sort of just bullying me all the way through. And then this particular scene, oh my god, where he was so sexual and just bullying me non-stop. But I didn't quite know what it was. And, and so after finishing Foning, I went to speak to the producers and I said, I don't, I, I knew at that point, oh my god, I've got to say something about this. Because I'm quite, you know, I can handle myself, or I'm quite mouthy and I don't mind, you know, giving it back and saying, oh, get your hands off or whatever. And I was quite used to doing that, but with this one, I was just completely frozen. And I remember going back to the producer and saying, I don't, I don't know how to describe this. All I can think of is that I've been sexually bullied, because I don't quite know what this actually is. I just didn't really have the words to describe what happened. It was just kind of, well, this is what it's like on some things.

• 43:01Fearne Cotton?

  I think also, you know, again, probably our generation, I'm sort of hopeful that younger generations aren't feeling this pressure as much. But there was that whole pressure to be the good girl and to, and to, and to abide to certain unwritten rules that meant you kept your mouth shut, that you cracked on with it, that you kept smiling. I mean, I, I'm sort of, I'm writing a book at the moment and I'm, and I'm thinking about these subjects a lot. And I'm remembering lots of things I'd completely forgotten. And I remember being in the States once, I was doing a TV show out there. It was actually a female director, but she obviously just did not like me. And she was so awful to me from start to finish, from just sort of completely ignoring me when I would speak to, you know, giving me ridiculous tasks on the day to do.

• 43:45Fearne Cotton?

  I could tell she was fucking with me the whole time.

• 43:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:48Fearne Cotton?

  And now, in my mid-forties, I would say, can we just have a chat about this because this is not working for me? Or can you just tell me what, what I'm not doing right for you? But back then, I would just smile.

• 43:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:58Fearne Cotton?

  Nod, carry on. Like, yeah, I'll do that, I'll take, I get for the 100, whatever it was she was getting me to do. Like, I remember on one day, she was like, on the day of the live show, she, she said, an hour before we started, like, went live to. However, many million people watching in the States. Okay, I want you to do the show in an American accent.

• 44:16Speaker 02

  Are you serious?

• 44:18Fearne Cotton?

  I'm from London. I'm not, I can't, I can't do that.

• 44:22Speaker 02

  Oh my god, that's awful.

• 44:23Fearne Cotton?

  On the day, and I was like, you should, I've been out here for months. Like, I can't do that. Like, that is insane.

• 44:29Speaker 02

  Oh my god, that's awful.

• 44:30Fearne Cotton?

  And I could tell it was just all to push me. But back then, I think so many of us, certainly in the TV world, but I know obviously extends to many women of our generation, who were just like, yep, just smile, nod, do the thing, get on with it. We didn't want to rock the boat.

• 44:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:45Fearne Cotton?

  I think it takes age, experience and knowing yourself to not do it.

• 44:49Speaker 02

  Well, it does, doesn't it? But I was looking on the finale of Gavin and Stacey. There was one day, I was in Pam and Mick's house and I was just looking around at like the crew and the girls. And there were like lots of, you know, young girls and like wardrobe assistants and everything. And I don't know, there was like a different feeling and there was like a real strength. And I was like specifically looking at the women and, and I was just going, oh my god. Like they have got all of these young women around me and they just feel different to when I was, you know, starting. And I don't know if it's like the new generation coming up and they think about their mental health and their self-worth and giving themselves time and not being pushed into stuff. If they focus on that far more than we ever thought we ever could or we ever thought about doing. But there was a completely different sense.

• 45:32Speaker 02

  And I looked at these young women and, and there was a real sense of self-worth. Like, they didn't look like they were, oh god, I'm so pleased just to be here or, oh god, I don't want to put a foot wrong because I might get fined. There was a real strength and a real, yes, I am here because I deserve to be here. You know, I am just as important as everybody else. And it was different to anything I'd ever really seen before. And I just thought, oh my god, you can sort of see them coming up and it's a different feeling.

• 45:54Fearne Cotton?

  You can. Whenever I'm, I don't know, chatting to someone of a much younger generation, their twenties, it does feel like there's a shift. I know that's quite a sweeping statement, but I completely agree with you. And I've been on set with, you know, female photographers, directors, and they're much younger. You do get the sense that they know their worth. And I think, again, for our generation, we were growing up in the nineties where the media was so toxic towards women especially.

• 46:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:18Fearne Cotton?

  That we all felt like, oh, I am lucky to be here, I better not say anything bad.

• 46:22Speaker 02

  I was just so pleased, you know, to get a job and yeah, just so pleased to be there.

• 46:25Fearne Cotton?

  Me too.

• 46:25Speaker 02

  I was like, I'm just like this small girl from Swansea. I can't believe I've managed to get here and get this job anyway. I don't want to mess it up, you know, just keep your mouth shut, do a good job and, you know, I'm just glad that I'm here.

• 46:37Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, and I was just saying.

• 46:41Speaker 09

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• 47:22Speaker 09

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• 47:39Speaker 08

  Help, I sexted my boss is the podcast where manners meets mayhem.

• 47:42Speaker 07

  I'm William Hanson.

• 47:44Speaker 08

  I'm Jordan North.

• 47:44Speaker 07

  And together we take on the hilarious challenges of modern life.

• 47:48Speaker 08

  William's the arbiter of etiquette.

• 47:50Speaker 07

  And Jordan's the chaotic yin to my perfectly polished yang.

• 47:54Speaker 08

  So if you want laugh-out-loud stories and brutally honest moments, then you'll love Help, I sexted my boss.

• 48:00Speaker 07

  Watch and listen every Tuesday and Friday.

• 48:02Speaker 08

  On YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts.

• 48:04Speaker 07

  Just search Sexted.

• 48:06Speaker 08

  Be warned, it's a bit rude.

• 48:12Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, you've obviously worked with some real female powerhouses over the years, and I loved the stories you were telling about Maggie Smith.

• 48:18Speaker 02

  Oh, God, she was amazing.

• 48:19Fearne Cotton?

  How amazing. And my favorite was that people were trying to rush her on set and she called them...

• 48:24Speaker 02

  Clockwork cunts. It was amazing. She was so good. Oh, my God, she was like, she just had this strength, this steely strength to her.

• 48:34Fearne Cotton?

  I want to use that phrase so bad. When can I use it?

• 48:36Speaker 02

  I know, I know. Yeah, she told them, she said, "Fuck off, you clockwork cunts." And was just so, but not even nasty in the way. It was just like, no, just stop.

• 48:46Fearne Cotton?

  Matter of fact.

• 48:46Speaker 02

  Don't rush me. And, oh, my God, she was amazing. I thought she was wonderful.

• 48:50Fearne Cotton?

  I love that. I also love the story about you farting in front of Johnny Depp.

• 48:53Speaker 02

  I can't believe that. I mean, oh my god. Because, yeah, because we'd been out the night before. I mean, oh my god, I don't go for pretty boys. I never have, right? And so, obviously, I knew he was a great actor, but I wasn't bothered about his films or him, or I didn't fancy him or anything. But then I'm in this film with him, and then I went on set. And the director said, oh, we've got to introduce you to Johnny. And then he turned and he was in this dark black wig. It was like he was in his prime. Yeah. And he started walking towards me and, oh my god, I've just never seen anything, you know, like any creature ever, just so beautiful. So symmetrical and beautiful. It was just like so weird. And he came towards me and he was really sweet and really lovely.

• 49:35Speaker 02

  And then we all went out for dinner and stuff. And I just remember they were keeping the seat next to me. And I was like, oh, yeah, you know, okay. And then this person came in through the door. And everyone's all fussing and excited. I turned around and it was him and I thought, oh, for god's sake. And then he came down and sat next to me and then tried to make conversation. And I genuinely turned my back on him because I thought, I cannot deal with that. Literally can't talk to you, which is really weird, but I can't talk to you. You're too good looking. Yeah. And I just remember thinking, my god, he's got hair like Jennifer Aniston. It was just like this hazelnut coloured hair with these beautiful blonde streaks at the front. And then eventually everybody left and it was just Lesley Sharp and me and him and like his security fella. And then I had to talk to him. And I just remember wittering on about how they were placing a mole on which side of my face for the character.

• 50:21Speaker 02

  And, oh my god, it was ridiculous. And he said, can we give you a lift back to the hotel? So I was like, yes, okay, fine. And then when we got to the hotel, I got out of the car. And I'll never forget the moment because he was just so beautiful. But he slowly slid his arms around my waist and then very slowly just kissed me on that side of my lips and then that side of my lips. And then got in the car and then, you know, just went. I was like, oh my god, oh my god. Ran upstairs, phoned my mum straight away going, oh my god, Johnny Depp's just kissed me. And then I went in the next morning and I got all done up. I'd had a lobotomy as the character, so I had a bald cap and I had lobotomy scars. And I've got like these white contact lenses in and, you know, and so I'm in this, in this cellar. I'm squatting on the floor and I'm acting and I'm getting into it.

• 51:03Speaker 02

  With him in the room, it's just us, and Heather Graham had just said to me, "God, I can't believe they've done that to you. Why have you let them do that to you?" And I was like, "'Cause it's fad and look, I look awful." And I'm squatting and acting, and then suddenly I farted. And it didn't, it was as silent but deadly, because it didn't make a noise, but you knew I'd farted. And he just went, "Oh my God, who's farted?" And I should have just gone, "Me, I'm, I'm, I'm acting like I've had a lobotomy. Sorry, guys, I'm getting into it. I've just farted." And I didn't, I just kind of went, "Oh," I looked around and being like, "Oh, yeah, who is it? Who's done that now?"

• 51:37Speaker 02

  God, I was mortified. And you can tell he knew it was me. I was just like, "Oh my God." I've literally gone from being kissed on the lips to farting in front of him now. It's so embarrassing.

• 51:46Fearne Cotton?

  It's so great. I was laughing my head off. It's funny you say it out loud. It's too good. I mean, one of your, um, most beloved scenes and characters outside of Kevin and Stacey is, of course, your character in Love Actually, which you'd only seen once until recently.

• 52:02Speaker 02

  I'd only seen it once. Oh, I couldn't go to the film premiere because I was filming this thing called Mine All Mine, um, in Wales. So the premiere happened and then I finished filming on the seafront in Swansea. And then me and James bombed it all the way up to London and we said, "Right, we're gonna go to the party." So I got there, saw everybody, so I, I've never had to sit and watch the film in the cinema. And then it was the Cardiff Film Festival and they said, "Oh, Jo, will you come and will you introduce it?" So I was like, "Yeah, okay, fine. Yeah, I don't mind doing that." So I'm in the cinema, I've got my parents sitting next to me and James sitting next to me. And then the film starts, I'm in the front row, and, and then it was only then that it sort of dawned on me, like, "Oh my God, I'm sitting in a cinema

• 52:41Speaker 02

  next to my parents and my husband. I'm in the front row. Everyone's looking at my boobs. Oh my God, this is awful. I can't bear it." So I loved the rest of the film. I mean, I was sobbing at Emma Thompson. I was like, "Jesus, it's a brilliant film. I love it." But I thought, "I can do with not seeing that again. I don't wanna see myself. I don't like seeing myself at the best of times." So start bollocking naked, jumping up and down the Martin Freeman. No, thank you very much. And so I haven't seen it for years and years and years. And then it was last Christmas, it came on. And I started watching it and, and it was daytime, so there wasn't any John and Judy naked stuff. But I started watching, it was like, oh my god, it's so lovely, it's such a lovely film. And I mean, oh my god, it did, I mean, it genuinely did make me feel like there was love all around. I was like, oh my god, this is so lovely.

• 53:24Speaker 02

  But now my kids, they're like, oh mummy, can we watch Love Actually? Can we watch Love Actually? And I've openly said to them, well, we can't because mummy's naked in it.

• 53:31Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 53:31Speaker 02

  And I've explained what I'm doing and that I must stand in on a film set and whatever. But I think this year I might go, yes, we will watch Love Actually. We're gonna have to fast forward through a few of mummy's scenes where I'm in the nude. But you will get to see me close in a nativity and at the end, so that's good.

• 53:46Fearne Cotton?

  Bingo.

• 53:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:47Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, it's so, it's just such a joyful Christmas moment.

• 53:50Speaker 02

  But it was just terrifying, you know, filming that.

• 53:52Fearne Cotton?

  I can't imagine. I mean, Liam Neeson gave you advice before you did that scene, right?

• 53:55Speaker 02

  Yes, he was really, really lovely. He took me aside. I mean, everybody was so great and so understanding. And before you do any of your naked stuff, there's such a huge build up to it beforehand, you know. You've had all of the stuff stuck on you whenever he's talking to you, making sure that you're comfortable. So by the time you actually get on set and you're doing it, and also it's not in the least bit sexual.

• 54:14Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 54:14Speaker 02

  So I mean, I'd run up and down Mumble Seafront, you know, streaking so many times before that I wasn't actually worried because I was naked and innocent. So I was, you know, that was fine by me. But he was so lovely and he took me aside and he said, look, I know that everyone's looking after you and, you know, it's all really good, but you do not let them do anything that you don't want to do. You don't let them push you, you stick with what you've agreed to. And, and he was really lovely. All I could think of was, oh my god, you're absolutely gorgeous. So his advice sort of went over my head because I was like in his eyes just going, oh my god, he's just so beautiful. But he was, yeah, he was really sweet. But yeah, but yeah, because I originally auditioned for the part of Sarah.

• 54:50Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 54:50Speaker 02

  And when I first of all read the script, I remember thinking, god, I pity the poor sods who are gonna be John and Judy. How the hell are they gonna do that? And then went to Met for Sarah, wasn't right for it. And then they phoned and said, we really like her, we think she'd be perfect for Judy. And it was such a massive, like, I said to my mum, oh my god, I don't know what to do, I don't know if I can imagine myself doing that. And mum was like, oh for goodness sake, Joanna, just imagine you're sunbathing topless on the beach.

• 55:15Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 55:15Speaker 02

  I was like, mum, but I haven't sunbed topless before. And so it was quite a big but then, I knew that Martin was doing it, and I knew he was great, and I loved the office, and I knew he was nice, and it sounds ridiculous, but I did think he's been in the office, so he's not going to be a pervert.

• 55:29Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 55:30Speaker 02

  Which I know is just a stupid thing, but that was my thought. And then I just played Eve at the National, and so I'd been completely naked for that. And so it was kind of like, well, you know, actually, it's, it's being naked and being innocent actually is quite easy, because you're not thinking about what you look like, you don't have to move a certain way, you don't have to be attractive. I've never ever thought of myself as being sexy, so having to be sexy on camera, I always find so difficult. So when it came down to actually doing it, you know, it was fine, because when you're there and you're doing it, you're not even thinking about being in the nude, you're thinking about what you're saying to John, and, you know, it's fine.

• 56:03Fearne Cotton?

  I'm imagining when you got that role, and also, once you've, you know, done that filming scene, you're not thinking that's going to live on forever. It's one of those films that it will never go.

• 56:14Speaker 02

  No, it won't. And it's really, really strange, right? Because, yeah, I kind of thought, well, it's going to go out and that's it. But, you know, still, even now, I, I, I get scre- I get, you know, like screenshots, because I remember my agent saying, don't worry, we've got a watertight contract. Everything is like, nobody's allowed to lift any images from the film, so you're not going to see loads and loads of images if you're naked and whatever. But I mean, that's in a contract, but then you think about, actually, in real life, somebody can watch the film and take a photo, and that is what would happen. So I would have photographs posted to me, which had been laminated, and then men would say, please, can you sign this for me? And I'd be like, straight in the bin, no thank you.

• 56:52Fearne Cotton?

  Sorry, they've got the cheek to laminate it.

• 56:55Speaker 02

  To laminate it, yes. The photo of it, laminated and then sent. But I've got quite a distance from it now as well. And, and also as well, with the beginning of kind of Gavin and Stacey, because I was so young then, I can, because I don't like watching myself, but I can watch Gavin and Stacey, and now, I can look at stuff of like John and Judy and not feel uncomfortable, because I mean, it's like a different person. I look at myself and I'm like, now, after being a mother, and feeding, and how your body physically changes anyway, after you've given birth, I look back and go, Jesus, I was bloody tiny. I mean, I must have been about 26 or something. Thing and it's like a whole other person. So it doesn't freak me out as much now.

• 57:33Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, that's lovely. You can just watch it at Christmas like everybody else and not feel completely traumatised.

• 57:37Speaker 02

  I know. My mum, I mean, it just does make me laugh that my parents go, it's not Christmas till we've watched. No, actually, like it's not Christmas till they've seen their daughter naked on the telly.

• 57:47Fearne Cotton?

  It's so great. It's so brilliant. Before we wrap things up, because I know you need to get on with this book tour and you've got children to look after. My last question is, where is your happy place?

• 57:59Speaker 02

  Oh, God, my happy place is in West Wittering in our caravan. Oh, my God.

• 58:03Fearne Cotton?

  I love West Wittering.

• 58:04Speaker 02

  God, I absolutely love it.

• 58:06Fearne Cotton?

  Gorgeous.

• 58:06Speaker 02

  In 2009, we went down there and we borrowed a caravan and it's in a little field which has just got horses and old people. There's like, it's not like, there's nothing going on there.

• 58:16Fearne Cotton?

  My mum and dad love it there. They love a bit of West Wittering with their dog.

• 58:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's just so, the beach, I mean, and you walk through the field and then you've got this little dirt track and then you're just like boom, straight on the beach. And we went down there in 2009 and we stayed in somebody else's caravan, their mother-in-law's caravan. And a spot came up on the site and, I mean, oh my God, it was almost like we felt quite rock and roll. We were like, sod it. Just get a caravan. Shall we go for it? We got the caravan and then we would go down there. It was just me and James and it's very old fashioned. It's like a static, old fashioned caravan from 2009. And we'd go down there with Daisy, my Jack Russell, and we'd just sit then. Sometimes we wouldn't even walk the dog. I would sit in there, I would read and I would do jigsaws and James would make me French martinis. And it was like our little cave and it was amazing. And we've still had it all these years. I found out I was pregnant with Kit down there.

• 59:06Speaker 02

  And it's our happy place. It's our little place that we go to. But now when we go down there, it's me and James and then four kids and two spaniels.

• 59:13Fearne Cotton?

  Wow.

• 59:14Speaker 02

  One springer, one cocker. Honest to God. It's like, it's chaos. It's really big. And I nearly took the four guinea pigs down there the other day as well. Oh God, we did have a friend who came and then looked after them because I said to James, we're going to have to take the pigs down as well and we'll just put them on the kitchen table and they'll be fine. And he was like, oh my God.

• 59:30Fearne Cotton?

  No, no, no. No more living creatures in that caravan.

• 59:34Speaker 02

  Cocoon and it's safe. And also I go down there with basically like two. Well, a pair of jeans, a pair of shorts, no makeup or anything. I normally don't wash, nobody washes.

• 59:43Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 59:43Speaker 02

  And then we've got a little vest on and a jumper and that's your lot. And it's just like, oh my god. Uh, you know, and I go down there and there's all worries and everything. It just goes, just goes.

• 59:55Fearne Cotton?

  Get by the sea.

• 59:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:56Fearne Cotton?

  By that sea and all your problems go.

• 59:58Speaker 02

  I know, and you just think, god, I, you know, I, I don't know, and, you know, and what me and James have said, right, we're gonna eventually sell everything up, move down there. And then we'll just live in a caravan when we get old.

• 1:00:07Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, dreaming with your French martinis.

• 1:00:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, but you know when you're like, everything is sort of, it's every, it's so busy and. You've got to make sure what you're wearing or your makeup and you've got to get it all done. And then you go down there and you realise that none of that matters. And you're just in the elements, really.

• 1:00:21Fearne Cotton?

  It is the simple things, which is the biggest cliche, but it's true.

• 1:00:24Speaker 02

  It is, it's true. It's the simple stuff and normally it's nature, isn't it? It's like being by the sea or, you know.

• 1:00:31Fearne Cotton?

  Here, here, it's one of my happy places too, is being by the sea. I just, I love it.

• 1:00:35Speaker 02

  Where's your happy place?

• 1:00:37Fearne Cotton?

  No one's ever asked me that.

• 1:00:38Speaker 02

  Have they not? Where's yours?

• 1:00:40Fearne Cotton?

  Um, definitely by the sea, but also. I think it's just those moments where there's a TV show on that is either like Bake Off or. Or Celebrity Get Me Out Of Here, where my kids wanna sit with me and watch the TV and we sit on the big sofa. And we watch that show together and we're all shouting. I can't actually hear anything that's going on the TV because they're both doing commentary throughout.

• 1:01:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:01:05Fearne Cotton?

  And we're just, and we've got snacks and I've got a cup of tea. That to me is like the dream.

• 1:01:10Speaker 02

  Oh god, it's lovely. And now that they've got like a bit older and you can actually start watching stuff with them.

• 1:01:16Fearne Cotton?

  Singer, we love watching that together. That is like, they, like, they both wanna watch it. I'm invested.

• 1:01:22Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:01:22Fearne Cotton?

  I cannot wait for that to start.

• 1:01:23Speaker 02

  Oh my god, and The Traitors. I can't wait.

• 1:01:26Fearne Cotton?

  Watched that yet.

• 1:01:27Speaker 02

  You have not seen any of The Traitors, literally nothing at all. Oh my god.

• 1:01:31Fearne Cotton?

  I missed it and then I felt like I'm too far behind, so I can't go back.

• 1:01:34Speaker 02

  I like that with slow horses, yeah.

• 1:01:35Fearne Cotton?

  Right, I haven't seen that either.

• 1:01:36Speaker 02

  But no, that's one for us, because yeah, you're on the sofa, you've got all of the kids, you've got like some cheese, you've got ham, I've got a bottle of sherry.

• 1:01:43Fearne Cotton?

  Dreaming.

• 1:01:43Speaker 02

  And then we're watching, you know, The Traitors, and we've done Claudia's, we've done the American one, we've done New Zealand, we've done the whole shebang, yeah. We're all sitting there, we're all invested, and you've got like your tribe with you, and you're like, oh my god, this is like the best it gets.

• 1:01:55Fearne Cotton?

  I love that shit, it's my, it is, it's the best, I love it.

• 1:01:57Speaker 02

  Oh my god, you've got to watch The Traitors.

• 1:01:59Fearne Cotton?

  That's on my list, my next family TV night. Um, Jo, good luck with the book tour.

• 1:02:03Speaker 02

  Oh, thank you.

• 1:02:04Fearne Cotton?

  And just the book in general, and thank you so much for being on Happy Place.

• 1:02:08Speaker 02

  Oh, it's been a pleasure, thank you.

• 1:02:12Fearne Cotton?

  Right, if we're gonna do one thing this week, guys, we're gonna release our inner dirt bags. As I said, pop on Snoop Dogg, let's go, hump the kitchen counter like Jo does, if you feel like it. Oh, Jo, I love Jo, I just think Jo would be the best person ever to go for a meal with. Imagine just like getting stuck into All the Goss with Jo Page, I mean, the dream. I really, really love that. Joanna's memoir Lush is out on the 25th of September. And by the way, you're 100% gonna wanna be back here in just a few days' time, because, hello, icon incoming. Let's chat on Instagram during the week, at Happy Place Official is where you'll get a little hint of who I'm chatting to next.

• 1:02:54Fearne Cotton?

  All right, a huge thanks again to Joanna, to the producer, Anushka Tate at Happy Place Studios, and to you, I adore ya.

• 1:03:44Speaker 03

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• 1:04:03Speaker 10

  This December, the magic of Charles Dickens' A Christmas Carol returns to Virginia Repertory Theatre in downtown Richmond. Experience the transformation of Ebenezer Scrooge as he's visited by the ghosts of Christmas past, present, and future, and rediscover the joy and true meaning of the holiday season. Performances run November 18th through December 27th. Tickets on sale now at virginianrep.org or by calling 804-282-2620.

• 1:04:32Speaker 04

  Hello, this is Suzy Ruffel. And Maisy Adams. And together we host Big Kick Energy. Hey Mais, what is it? Only the best podcast ever. Yeah. A comedy entertainment podcast with a focus on all things women's football, all things hilarious, all things friendship. It's a laugh is what it is, Ruffel. Yeah, and a fair bit of gossiping too. Oh, and a lovely bit of gossip. Chow down on the gossip. Nom, nom, nom, nom, nom. You can listen wherever you get your podcasts, just need to search Big Kick Energy. Grab a knife and fork and tuck in, baby.