How Not To Let the News Paralyze You | Tom Llamas

An NBC Nightly News anchor shares insider tips from the belly of the beast. Tom Llamas is anchor and managing editor of NBC Nightly News with Tom Llamas and anchor of Top Story with Tom Llamas, a daily streaming primetime newscast on NBC News NOW. He has been in broadcast journalism for over 25 years. In this episode we talk about: How to be a better listener Practices for continued growth and curiosity as you get older The role of both faith and meditation in Tom's life The role of exercise The role of friendship His family's dramatic history and the impacts of becoming the first Latino anchor of a weekday evening news broadcast And much more Join Dan's online community here http://www.danharris.com/ Follow Dan on social: Instagram https://bit.ly/3tGigG5, TikTok https://bit.ly/3FOA84J Subscribe to our YouTube Channel https://bit.ly/3FybRzD Additional Resources: The Lion Tracker's Guide to Life https://www.amazon.com/Lion-Trackers-Guide-Life-ebook/dp/B07LC9C7Q4 To advertise on the show, contact [email protected] or visit https://advertising.libsyn.com/10HappierwithDanHarris Thanks to our sponsor: Airbnb: Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.com/host http://airbnb.com/host.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Your joints help you keep doing what you love. Give them daily support with Ancient Nutrition Multi-Collagen Protein. Two scoops deliver 20 grams of collagen from 10 types, including clinically studied eggshell membrane, plus vitamin C and probiotics to support skin, hair, nails, and joint health. Visit ancientnutrition.com/protein and use code PROTEIN for $15 off. That's ancientnutrition.com code PROTEIN.

• 0:31Dan Harris?

  This is the 10% Happier Podcast. I'm Dan Harris.

• 0:46Dan Harris?

  Hey, hey, how we doing, everybody? Today, we've got some insider tips on how not to let the news paralyze you. My guest is an old friend who recently became the anchor and managing editor of the NBC Nightly News. I knew him when he was a correspondent over at ABC News, where we worked together. He's always been a very thoughtful dude. He also happens to be a power listener to this show, which is proof of something. I wanted to have Tom Yamas on to discuss the techniques he personally uses to survive our current national and global tumult. This is a guy who really is in the belly of the beast. So what does he know that the rest of us should? We talk about how to be a better listener,

• 1:28Dan Harris?

  practices for continued growth and curiosity as you get older, the role of both faith and meditation in Tom's life, the role of exercise, the role of friendship, his family's dramatic history, and how that impacts him becoming the first Latino anchor of a weekday evening news broadcast, and much more. Before we dive in, a very quick plug. Don't forget to check out what we're doing over on danharris.com. Subscribers get to come to our weekly live meditation and Q and A sessions every Tuesday at 4:00. The next one is coming up on December 16th. It's going to look a little different. We're going to be joined by some special guests with details on an exciting new project that we are launching in the 10% Happier world. I'm very excited for you to hear about this.

• 2:12Dan Harris?

  We'll get started with Tom Yamas right after this.

• 2:16Speaker 02

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 2:46Speaker 03

  How do I recover from a friendship breakup? How come there's nowhere to hang out anymore? Why do I feel lonely when I can communicate with anyone and everyone through my phone? These are the questions that you're not alone in asking. And that's where our new podcast, Cornerpiece, comes in, to start small on life's biggest questions. I'm Taha, and with my friends Sabrina and Melissa, we're going to explore life's ungooglable questions on this new podcast with TED. Come hang out with us on Cornerpiece, with new episodes every other Thursday, wherever you get your podcasts.

• 3:21Dan Harris?

  Tom Yamas, the new-ish anchor of the NBC Nightly News. Welcome to the show.

• 3:28Speaker 04

  Dan, how are you doing, my friend?

• 3:30Dan Harris?

  I'm doing great. I am simultaneously really happy for and very proud of you.

• 3:37Speaker 04

  Thank you, my friend. Thank you.

• 3:39Dan Harris?

  I recently had to change something on my phone, and I lost a bunch of people's numbers, including yours. And I was trying to text you on the day the announcement came and was unable to do that. So please take this as my belated...

• 3:54Speaker 04

  No, I was wondering. I was like, I've heard from everybody except Dan. I go, I thought we were closer than that. But no, Dan, just so you know, when we worked together, I learned so much from you. And you were truly one of the great anchors that I got to sit next to and learn from because what you taught me was... Being a good anchor is about a lot of things, but one of the key things is you gotta be able to listen and you still remain one of the best listeners in our business. It makes you a better journalist because once you listen to people and you really hear them out, you know?

• 4:23Dan Harris?

  I mean, I would say, well, first of all, thank you. And I got feedback in, you know, the not too distant past. I'm thinking specifically of a 360 review I did in 2018, which was quite disastrous, where people pointed out that I might've been a good listener in a journalistic context, but interpersonally not so great. I was more broadcasting than listening. And so I'm just wondering for you, somebody who's keyed into the skill of listening, like, what would you recommend for people who are interested in getting better at that, either professionally or personally?

• 4:55Speaker 04

  You know, I think what I've noticed with people when I'm off the air, a lot of times, people may not outwardly want to speak about themselves or talk about themselves, but when you ask them questions and you truly are curious about them, I find that people do open up. And I've always loved to ask people questions, whether I'm on the job or I'm not, like, I like to get to really know people and to connect with people on a deeper level. You know, we have a finite amount of time on this planet. If we're gonna have a conversation, if we're gonna share some time together, I want to really get to know people. So I do ask questions. And there's a difference between asking probing questions, but asking deep questions. And I think when you listen to people, what it helps you do is it helps you with your next question. Because if you're not listening, you're not gonna ask the right next question.

• 5:39Speaker 04

  And that works in life, I think it works in our job as well. What I learned from you, though, was when reporters were giving their report and what we call like, you know, the live shot after the top and tail, in those live tails, which is the end after the news package has run, the reporter's saying something live to the anchors and to the viewers, you were always so keen on listening to that and you always had sort of the right reaction in the sense of, how are we connecting the dots here and what else am I gonna say to help the viewer? And that's something that great anchors do. And I mean, when I would sit next to you on the anchor desk and watch you, I mean, you were a master at that.

• 6:12Dan Harris?

  Thank you. And now you're the guy in a suit and tie and I'm doing this interview in a t-shirt and my bathing suit. So.

• 6:22Speaker 04

  Sometimes a student becomes a teacher, right?

• 6:24Dan Harris?

  I guess so. I guess so. So I'm curious, on this tip of listening, you know, I don't know if you've had this experience, but I used to get people saying to me in my personal life, dude, I feel like I'm being interviewed.

• 6:37Speaker 04

  Yeah, all the time.

• 6:38Dan Harris?

  Okay.

• 6:39Speaker 04

  All the time.

• 6:39Dan Harris?

  So do you think they mean that as a compliment or as a back the fuck up?

• 6:45Speaker 04

  It's usually with my friends who would make fun of me for asking 20 questions. And I think we're old enough now to a point where we know we're not interrogating people as journalists or as lawyers, especially people we just meet off the street. But again, regardless of what you do, I'm going to be interested in your life and I'm going to be interested in your profession and your family life. And I think that's just being a curious person is probably what brought me. One of the reasons why I love this job so much is that you constantly learn, right? And that's sort of one of the things you want to do as a good human. You want to constantly be learning. Something that I believe firmly in my life is that if you're not growing, you're dying. So whatever you are doing, whether you're walking or you're in this job or you're playing tennis or you're being a father, if you're not growing, what exactly are you doing there? And so I think by talking to people and learning about their lives, you're sort of growing in a way.

• 7:30Speaker 04

  But I totally agree with you because my mom, and I probably get it from my mom. I'll be in situations with my mom and she'll be just really like giving the Barbara Walters treatment to someone and she's just met, I'm like, mom, you've just met this person. But I gotta tell you, most of the time, people, they like to talk about themselves and they like to sort of share their life experience, especially as you get older.

• 7:49Dan Harris?

  Yes. I think it's kind of like a benevolent manipulation technique. Because people really love to talk about themselves and you can warm them up. I mean, when I say benevolent, I mean, you're not manipulating them to like give you all your money, but it's more like making people comfortable. It's a kind of win win because I, like you, like to learn from other people. I don't want to just talk about the weather or lawn care or whatever. And people like, you know, most people like in the appropriate, if you're doing it well and the right style, to talk about themselves.

• 8:22Speaker 04

  Yeah, and I think people live much more interesting lives than they even realize.

• 8:27Dan Harris?

  Yes.

• 8:27Speaker 04

  You know, I think people think sometimes if they meet someone like myself or someone like you, who has worked in the media, who has gotten a front row seat to some of history's biggest events, and who are there day in, day out, every week, covering what's happening around this world. I am fascinated by people, whatever they do, because everyone has an interesting life. I believe that, and they've had interesting life experiences. And also, I think it also comes a lot from, I'm the son of Cuban immigrants, and it's very common when you meet other people who are Cuban, the first question you ask is about their family's journey. I mean, that is, that is like the second question, once you realize somebody is also Cuban-American. And those are all stories we would share growing up, as soon as we met somebody new or somebody else. Like, you would hear the stories of how their, their parents got out, or how their grandparents got out, and how they came to this country,

• 9:11Speaker 04

  and how they struggled, and, and how life was going. So I think it's part of that, too.

• 9:15Dan Harris?

  I want to put a pin in your parents' story, because it's incredible.

• 9:18Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 9:18Dan Harris?

  So I want to come back to that. But you, you just said something interesting, if you're not growing, you're dying. So how do you, how do you keep growing?

• 9:27Speaker 04

  Yeah, you know, I set goals. I like to sort of make a list every year, right after New Year's. And it's goals for my life personally, goals for me as a husband, as a dad, on the job, health-wise. And just, just so I sort of have a record to go back at the end of the year, be like, how did I do this year? And I think that's one way. I think it's sort of changing the things you did one year, and trying something different the next year. Sort of forcing yourself into an uncomfortable position. Nothing crazy, but if you ran a mile last year, hey, maybe this year you run two miles, things like that. Reading books about topics, maybe I don't know, or I don't understand, or I need to read up on, getting to know people, maybe that I haven't gotten to know yet, whether it be at work, or, or my personal life.

• 10:12Speaker 04

  It's sort of setting challenges for yourself, realizing sort of where your limitations are, maybe where your ceilings are, and seeing if you can keep growing out of them. And I, I don't know where I read that quote, but every time I read a good quote, I write it down, and it's in my, my notes in my, my iPhone, of the quotes that I love, and it's one of the ones I wrote down years ago, and I still believe in it.

• 10:31Dan Harris?

  If I'm hearing you correctly, and I, I kind of knew this about you already. It's just kind of a habit now for you.

• 10:37Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 10:38Dan Harris?

  And obviously, it's what drove you to journalism, what keeps you in journalism. But it's not just journalism because you're interested in doing all aspects of your life better. It's just an orientation you have to life, it sounds like.

• 10:50Speaker 04

  Yeah, it is. And I mean, it's, but it's everything. It's my faith. It's my health. It's, like I said, being a dad, being a husband. There's another quote that I love that Ronnie Lott actually said, that great safety from the 49ers, who said he loved to exhaust life. And I say that every time I'm talking to people, like, I love to exhaust life. And that basically means just trying to maximize this day, maximize what we're gonna put in, whether it's gonna be this podcast with you, Dan, or it's gonna be nightly news tonight, or it's gonna be pitching batting practice to my son. Like, we're gonna exhaust life. We're gonna have a great time. We're gonna do this to the best. We're not gonna really do anything half ass. And that's kind of the way I live my life, along those lines of, you know, if you're not growing, you're dying.

• 11:31Speaker 04

  And it's not always being uber intense about things because I think I told you this a long time ago. After reading your book, I got into meditation. But I also think a part of exhausting life, when you maximize your day, is being fully present in that day. Because when you, when you truly exhaust life, when you're in the zone or in flow, whatever you wanna call it, I mean, you are in that moment.

• 11:53Dan Harris?

  Yes.

• 11:53Speaker 04

  Right? You're not thinking about the past or the future. You're there. And to me, I think that's the goal every day, right? Obviously, to be a good person foremost. But as far as like our time on this planet, it is exhausting life and being in that moment.

• 12:07Dan Harris?

  Let me just go with exhausting life for a second. I read in some of the articles that came out when your big promotion was announced, that, you know, there's a time in the day after you've hustled all day to get a story, and then you've presented the story on the evening news, and in your case, you're anchoring the nightly news. Then you kind of like hurl yourself on the floor, on the couch for a second. It's like, whoa, okay, we did it. It sounds to me like that's a key moment for you.

• 12:35Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, I think on big news events after an election night and you're on the air for several hours going live, Dan, you remember those nights, you know about those nights, where you're presenting something that is incredibly important to the audience, something incredibly important that is happening on that night, and you have to be there for everybody and you have to make sure that you're playing at your best. And when that night is done, oh yeah, like you are sitting down and you're sort of absorbing everything that just happened. It also happens on those terrible stories, you know, the stories where you meet people on the worst day of their life and something horrific has happened and you're tasked with telling the stories of these people and telling the nation about this awful event that has made our entire country pause. You do have to sort of take those breaks sometimes

• 13:18Speaker 04

  after those moments because you can't just keep thinking, okay, now I have to do the next live shot, or tomorrow I have to be in the Today Show, or what are we doing for nightly news? Like, you have to at some point absorb everything you've taken. You don't live in it because it'll paralyze you, but I do think you have to absorb it for a second or two.

• 13:33Dan Harris?

  Well, okay, so you brought me exactly where I wanted to go. You don't live in it because it will paralyze you. Your job is to bear witness to like the worst aspects of humanity, also the best.

• 13:47Speaker 04

  Also the best, yeah, yeah.

• 13:48Dan Harris?

  But, you know, you've been in Gaza, Ukraine, you cover politics, you cover the migrant crisis, natural disasters, which obviously is not humanity's fault necessarily, although with the climate crisis increasingly, we can take some of the blame. So you're right there, you know, at the tip of the spear in some really, you know, uncomfortable spots. How do you not let it paralyze you?

• 14:12Speaker 04

  You know, sometimes it does. This is probably the question I get most from younger journalists. We just came back from the NAHA, which is the National Association of Hispanic Journalists, and I get this question a few times every day when we're doing our panels. And I get it from people that I'm mentoring here at NBC News, too. And it's tough because you know you don't ever want to lose that humanity, Dan, right? Because I think if you lose that humanity, you've lost the reason why you're there. This doesn't mean you have to be overly emotional. This does not mean that you have to be an advocate for anyone except the truth. But you can't lose that human touch. So you have that, you live in that moment and you're there, Dan, as you know, in that zone for that interview, that important live shot for the entire show sometimes, an hour long.

• 14:55Speaker 04

  And you don't ever forget it. And that's what I tell people. I said, the way I live with it is that I just, I don't ever forget them. And I, I make a promise to myself that if we need to go back, we will go back. So we won't forget about that community. Cause we have the benefit of parachuting in sometimes into these, these natural disasters, but we know at some point we're getting out. The people that are living through that, they're not going to get out. They're going to have to deal with this. And usually the worst part comes after the storm hits, right? Or after that tornado has pushed through. It's living with no power. It's realizing you've lost your house. It's realizing, oh wait, your insurance just drops you. You now have no money. And this is going to, it's going to affect your life for years to come. We're about to mark the 20th anniversary of Hurricane Katrina, which when you think is just so wild.

• 15:38Speaker 04

  And there are people in New Orleans that are still dealing with the scars of Katrina. So my commitment to them, or I tell them is that you, you're always going to go back. But I'm sure there'll be at some point in my life, Dan, when, when it will all hit me, right? Because like, you know, like you just, you talk to people on very tough days and you have to absorb that. And a lot of times it hits you and there, there are many times, and I'm not afraid to show emotion because we're human, right? But there are many times, especially with stories with kids where it'll hit me in the, in real time and I'll, and I'll need a minute because I'm just human. You know, there's, there's only so much of this like you can take. But again, you've been through it, you're trained, you know how to do it. And I think you take that emotion and you put it into your writing, you put it into your broadcasting.

• 16:17Dan Harris?

  Yeah, I, I agree with all that. And I would say for me, there, there's a kind of difference between being in a horrible situation as a journalist or just being in a horrible situation. You know, like you, I've, I've seen some ghastly things in my day. But I'm kind of wearing the goggles of a journal, like I'm there to get a job done. And as I feel like a, some layer of psychological protection as opposed to if I just landed there and was, I had nothing to do except for take it all in. Does that make sense what I'm saying?

• 16:50Speaker 04

  It does. And I, I see in your book, I think you wrote about this and you wrote about it so eloquently. And I, it's crazy because I thought the same exact things. And I know a lot of journalists. In our profession, I've thought the same thing, but you put it into words, which is when you were covering a breaking news event, especially when there is danger involved. You feel almost that you are in this cocoon and you somehow are protected, but you really are not. You're as exposed as everybody else, but for some reason, when you're in front of the camera and you're reporting live, you sort of feel protected even though you're not. It's a weird feeling, but it's just something maybe we tell ourselves when we're in those moments.

• 17:23Dan Harris?

  Yeah, and I think maybe we need it in order to get through it. I think the question, and I saw this happen in my own life is, and you kind of made a nod to this, is like, maybe it'll all catch up with you at some point. I've definitely had it catch up to me in various moments, which is why I think, and you're, you're way ahead of me. As somebody who's slightly younger than me, but has practices to protect your psyche, which I did not have, especially when I was a combat correspondent. And so I'd love to talk about some of the things you do regularly that I think keep you sane. We'll talk about meditation too, but you mentioned your faith.

• 17:55Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 17:55Dan Harris?

  You come from a Catholic family, went to a really prestigious Catholic high school in Miami, Belen. I have a very close friend whose sons went there. It's a boys' school.

• 18:05Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 18:05Dan Harris?

  And it's an amazing school and I knew that was a place where your faith deepened. Can you just talk a little bit about the role of faith for you?

• 18:13Speaker 04

  Yeah, I'm Catholic and all Catholics are Christians. Not everyone knows that, but not all Christians are Catholics. Grew up, was born a Catholic, had my first communion, was obviously baptized when I was younger, confirmation. And then I went to Belen Jesuit, which was that high school you mentioned. I also went to a Catholic college, Loyola University in New Orleans as well, which has a very strong sort of faith community there. And I think my role and my journey with God is like many Catholics, I was born into it. I go to mass. I believe in God. I believe in Jesus. And I, you know, I think sort of on a macro level, when we think about someone like Jesus, you just, regardless of your religion, every religion sort of has a person like Jesus.

• 18:53Speaker 04

  It is what you should strive to be as a human, which is don't judge others, be a good person. And know that, that this thing that you're living through, it's not about you, it's about everyone else. And I think. If you sort of absorb that and you you think about that, you don't have to be a Christian to live that type of philosophy. But if you are, I believe you're living a good and a meaningful life. That's what I take from it. I pray a few times a day. I go to mass. My kids go to mass. I love hearing, you know, whether they be Catholic or or non-denominational pastors deliver sermons and hear their message and talk about how they interpret the Bible. I love the Bible and and reading the Bible, not as much as maybe as I should, but I love

• 19:36Speaker 04

  to go to church and I love to be surprised by a priest and their homily. It happened just this past Sunday. Sometimes, you know, the Catholic Church has has gone through a lot over the past few decades because of the priest sex abuse scandal and so many other scandals that have rocked the Catholic Church. And a lot of the priests that have come now into the fold. There's a lot of new priests, a lot of younger priests. So like, at church, depending on your parish, you kind of never know what you're going to get. And we had a sort of an old school priest on Sunday, and he gave a really good, really good sermon. I love it when all my kids, I have 12, nine, and seven, that they listen to. That's when you know, actually, he's delivering a good homily, because usually it's my son trying to wrestle the three of us when we're in church with the four of us. So if even he's listening, I think that's great. And that's what it is. And it's something we've shared

• 20:20Speaker 04

  with our kids and we pray at night and it's helped me through some tough times and I believe in it.

• 20:26Dan Harris?

  What you said about Jesus, I just want to come back to that for a second. I feel a little bit like a fraud talking about Jesus at all, given that I was raised by atheists and half Jewish and had a bar mitzvah and all that stuff. But, you know, I spent a lot of time covering faith and spirituality when I worked at ABC, where we both worked for a while. And I'm, you know, I had a friend, I haven't talked to him in a couple of years, Gabe Lyons, quite a prominent evangelical pastor, and he used to talk about wearing Jesus goggles. Jesus, you know, you know, I don't know him and you read the Bible and I don't, who knows how faithful that is to the, what the dude actually said in real life. And there are lots of historical questions, but he seems to embody what another religious figure who I really respect often says. I'm talking about Father Gregory Boyle, who's

• 21:11Dan Harris?

  a LA priest who who works with gang members, past and present, and he talks- Talks about Jesus or God embodying the spirit of no matter whatness, like the loving whoever crosses their path, no matter what, even if they've done horrible things. That's not to say consequences are out of the question. It's just that there's a, an understanding of past conditions creating current behavior and innate goodness that unless we're deeply unhealthy that we all have. And Gabe used to talk about wearing Jesus goggles just as he moved through the world. And that's before I got into meditation, but you know, in the Dharma and meditation, we, we practice, you know, there's no God involved, but we practice meditation that is

• 21:55Dan Harris?

  designed to boost our friendliness quotient or our compassion quotient. And it really does give you those goggles, no belief required. So I'm yammering at this point, but does any of what I'm saying land for you?

• 22:07Speaker 04

  No, it is. And I think the problem people have with religions and where people sort of maybe lose their way is, is when they get too technical and they try to be too precise and they try to make it more complex. If you just sort of simplify the message and what you're talking about, don't judge others, be a good person. It's more than just about you. The stuff that, that, that Jesus was preaching, if you sort of just bring it to that level, try to live your life that way, you're going to be a good person. You know, I mentioned the sex abuse scandal and I think obviously horrific because of the victims of what happened to these children and probably the worst thing that's ever happened, at least in modern times, to Catholics and to Christians, right? But I think what was, what

• 22:47Speaker 04

  was so hurtful about that entire episode, that it was done by people who so many had put faith in, who had these people that others had listened to, and those people lost their way as well. And I think power corrupts. I think when you make things too complex, that can corrupt too. When you think you have all the answers, that corrupts and that moves you further and further away from what I think Jesus was teaching. And I'll be honest with you, I didn't think we were going to be talking about this today, but it's, but it's a good conversation and I think it's a healthy one to have, you know?

• 23:18Dan Harris?

  I totally agree. Coming up, Tom talks about his meditation practice, his exercise practice and his friendship practice and much more.

• 23:33Speaker 02

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 24:05Dan Harris?

  Okay, so let's talk about meditation. One of the many things I like about you is you're a person of faith who also meditates, which is a great...

• 24:11Speaker 04

  Right.

• 24:11Dan Harris?

  Because a lot of people who are Christian or any other religion worry about meditation being from, you know, somehow against their pre-existing beliefs. But that's... Well, you tell me. How did you come around to meditation being okay?

• 24:26Speaker 04

  Yeah, you know, it's funny because meditation... So some people have argued, I'm sure you know this, that Jesus meditated as well. Because you can sometimes be in a mode of such deep prayer that you are also meditating. Again, just putting this out there, I'm not saying Jesus, you know, was meditating. I'm saying some people have interpreted that because his prayer was so deep that he might have reached a meditative state, which he might have. I got through meditation in a really funny way, Dan, and this is a completely honest story. You wrote the book, 10% Happier, about your journey with meditation. I had just gotten to where we worked together at ABC News, and the first thing people told me when I got there, they said, "You gotta read Dan's book because it has all the gossip about ABC." And I was like, "Oh, okay." I was like, "Okay, I gotta read this guy's book

• 25:10Speaker 04

  because I don't, I mean, there's a lot of people here I don't know. I don't know like the last 10, 15 years of this, of this newsroom. Dan has been here and he wrote about it because a lot of what was happening in the newsroom brought you to meditation." And so I read your book and your story and everything you were saying and your anxieties. I mean, it just rang true. It's like, I've lived it. I knew exactly what you were talking about. I was not at your level. I had not had the same experiences as you had because you're, like you said, you're a few years older than me. But I understood what you were going through inside. I mean, I completely understood what you were going through. So I was like, let me try this out. And I started with your app doing the guided meditations and started, you know, just sort of like the instructions you gave, five minutes a day to 10 minutes a day to maybe twice a day.

• 25:52Speaker 04

  And then it's grown from there to now I do, I'll do 10 minutes every morning, but I'll also do 10 minutes of sort of visualizations, positive affirmations, and then some more prayer. And so like, if it's a good day, I'm there 25, 30 minutes. But it's, I come out of it, I feel great. I feel, it feels like a workout. That's the way I explain it to people. You know, I just feel, I feel, it makes me feel better. It does. I mean, it's obviously a catchy title and it's sold billions of copies for a reason.

• 26:20Dan Harris?

  I thank you. Even if the session of meditation feels shitty, I still, it's still worth doing. The fact that I could argue that the, the tougher the workout, the more the benefit, you know, like the grittier stuff you're confronting or fatigue or distraction or whatever, like it's, you're really working the mind. And so I always feel great.

• 26:43Speaker 04

  And it's just like exercise. If you, if you're not in the gym for two weeks and then you go back to the gym, you're going to be sore. And if you don't meditate for two weeks and you try to go back to it, your mind's going to be wandering and you're, you're going to be in a lot of places. I, I've also found that, and I think it's sort of the, we live in this time where we're inundated, you know, like me, somebody who like I talk about exhausting life. If I'm walking, I'm listening to a podcast, I'm listening to a book on, an audio book, I'm reading something, I'm constantly reading the news, I'm always engaged in some type of media. I love music, I'm listening to music. So there are very few times when it's silent and that's when I meditate, when it's silence. And I find some of your best ideas.

• 27:20Dan Harris?

  Yes.

• 27:21Speaker 04

  Some of your best thoughts.

• 27:22Dan Harris?

  Yes.

• 27:22Speaker 04

  You can figure out problems.

• 27:24Dan Harris?

  Yes.

• 27:24Speaker 04

  When you sit in that meditation and maybe that wasn't even the purpose. But then it comes to you and it's, it's always like, it's always sort of as, as Oprah would say, that aha moment where I, I think, wow, I wasn't even thinking about this, but it just came to me because in the silence, it sort of emerges and it's a powerful tool. And the best thing about it is that it's free 99. So once you figure it out, you don't have to pay anything. And it's one of those great things. And so I thank you for that, Dan, because I honestly like, I don't think if I would have read your book, I would have started meditating.

• 27:51Dan Harris?

  That's great to hear. And just to say, this thing about ideas coming, there's some neuroscience, I believe, to support this idea. You know, it's like the guy from Mad Men, Don Draper. People asked him, how do you come up with these great slogans? And he would say, well, I work all day and then I go to the movies. And when you put your brain in relaxation mode, it's why we have ideas in the shower. You put your brain in relaxation mode, connections get made that wouldn't otherwise get made. And so you're definitely not alone or making that up. And on the thing about Jesus, meditating, I don't know if he did, although our former colleague Paula Ferris, who's a devout evangelical Christian, used to point out to me that the word meditation shows up a lot in both the Old and New Testament.

• 28:32Speaker 04

  It's true.

• 28:33Dan Harris?

  But there is, I believe, some neuroscience to show that the brain states of deep prayer really resemble the brain states of deep meditation. So something's happening here.

• 28:43Speaker 04

  And some prayers, you know, if you say an Our Father or Hail Mary, and again, I just want to be very clear here because I don't want to get in trouble, but I'm not afraid to say these things. When you say an Our Father or Hail Mary, you know, you are saying a repetitive prayer and you're either praying to the Virgin Mary, you're praying to Jesus and to God. I have never done, is it a transcendental meditation? But I know that you have a word sometimes, right, that you sort of repeat to yourself, a mantra. I've heard this on your podcast. And when I first heard that, it reminded me a little bit of these prayers, because even though you're praying several words and several sentences and they're full thoughts to who you're praying to, the repetition sort of reminded me of the mantra as well, of the way you guys were describing it.

• 29:22Dan Harris?

  Yeah, I think there's probably a lot to that. Let's just briefly touch exercise, because I know that's a part of your daily or daily-ish routine for, you know, maintaining your sanity. Can you just say a few words about why it's so important to you?

• 29:34Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think it's a high-stress job. And like I said, we are so plugged in from the moment I wake up. And I know it's not healthy, but it's just, it is who I am, and it's just the nature of the business. From the moment I wake up, I'm getting news and I'm getting emails about news and updates about stories. And this morning, right when I woke up, it was the suicide letter of, you know, this shooter who went into the NFL building and unfortunately killed several people. And that's the first thing I'm seeing when I wake up. It's just, it's out of habit, you know, you just kind of grab the phone. It's I've seen the alerts and I want to make sure I haven't missed anything that's going to jolt me out of bed. Because maybe I have to get to New York quickly or I have to get on the air somehow.

• 30:14Speaker 04

  So because of that, I have the meditation in the morning, but then I have right after that meditation, maybe an hour or so after I've done some calls. I get in the gym and I'll either, I'll either go for a run, I'll lift weights or I'll play tennis or something. And it's just to kind of get an hour of physical exercise in and I just, I feel better. I just think it's something you need to do. Every study we have done on Alzheimer's, on dementia, on aging, every study goes back to keeping an active life. Keeping your mind active and keeping your body active. And every time we do these stories. I'm like, guys, we've done 10 of these and they, they keep finding the same things, but there's always, you know, one extra nugget that makes it newsworthy. But at its core, every doctor, every study has shown, keeping an active mind, keeping an active body will, will help you live longer.

• 30:57Speaker 04

  And I mean, I'd love to live longer. So, so I'm, so I'm, I'm going to be doing it. And it's something good. And I think, you know, just. Having worked out as a, as a kid with my friends, growing up. It's something I sort of, I think, connects me to my past too. And it's, it's fun and playing tennis, I'm a terrible tennis player. But playing tennis is fun and talking trash with your friends while you're playing. That's, that, that, that's actually where I excel at. Not at any, anything actually technical. It's the talking trash. That to me is great, you know?

• 31:23Dan Harris?

  Yeah. I think talking trash with your friends is undervalued as a mechanism for health. You don't even have to talk trash. We're just doing something, hanging out with your friends. I mean, there's a ton of data that nobody's talking about on Instagram to show that if in this era of optimization, like. Your relationships are the thing to optimize.

• 31:45Speaker 04

  Oh yeah. I, I, I mean, there's this great book, I, which I don't know if you've read on, on the 80 20 rule. And I don't know if you've read that book, but it is, it's great. It's written by a guy who, he worked in finance, but he was also a gambler. He loved gambling. He's got this great line in the book that says. Earning money is, is great, but winning money. Oh, there's nothing better than winning money. But anyway, he has this, this, this mathematical formula. It's really easy to understand. 20% of your friends bring you 80% of your happiness. It it works for everything, right? Twenty percent of your sources bring you eighty percent of your stories. Like eighty percent of your stress probably comes from like this twenty percent of your life. You know, it's it's things like that. And after reading the book, it puts a lot of things in perspective in a sense of like, how do you want to spend your day?

• 32:27Speaker 04

  And how do you want to spend your time and who you spend time with? And it's true. When you spend time with that core group that knows you, you spend time with the family you love, you're going to maximize your time. You start to sort of freelance and oh, maybe we'll go to this, maybe we'll go to that. I know that's not you Dan. That's when it starts to get sort of, sort of be a waste of time and you don't get that same experience, I think.

• 32:47Dan Harris?

  Would you classify yourself as an introvert?

• 32:50Speaker 04

  Uh, no, I don't, I don't think I'm an introvert. No, I mean, I, I, we've, we've worked with a lot of introverts. It's, you know, I, I don't think I'm an introvert. No, I'm, I'm an extrovert, but I can, I, I can get very deep inside of myself. My wife, I'm sure can tell you that at times I am an introvert at home, but I don't think I am. And I just say that because I, I know true introverts who are some of the most talented people I've ever met, some of the most talented people I've ever worked with. And it's funny because we work in a business where, you know, it's television and it's a spectacle and things are big and you have to be very creative. And they can be very quiet people, but as soon as they get into an edit room or as soon as they get into a script, it's like they are true geniuses. And so I don't think I'm an introvert in that way. I'm usually out pretty outgoing. How would you describe yourself, Dan?

• 33:34Dan Harris?

  I'm a super max extrovert, like I.

• 33:36Speaker 04

  Yeah, I was gonna say, you're out there, you're talking to people.

• 33:38Dan Harris?

  When you were saying, you know, maybe I won't go to this thing or whatever, like I'm the guy, I'll go to the extra thing, but my wife won't.

• 33:46Speaker 04

  Will you really?

• 33:47Dan Harris?

  Yeah, I'll take the risk. I won't go twice if it sucks, but like I'll try it because I'm always looking to, you know, meet new people. I love that. You know, in terms of introverts, we both worked with, then I hope you won't mind me saying this. I'll text them just to confirm. But the name that came to mind is George Stephanopoulos, like really shy dude.

• 34:05Speaker 04

  Oh, he's one of them. Yeah, well, just, I mean, I don't even know if it's shy because George is very confident. But yeah, I'm sure George and we're not saying any secrets. He could be, he could be quiet. I remember he told me a story. I think he was interviewing with Clinton and I, I think he told Clinton, I'm the guy who wrote Dukakis' jokes. It was something like that. And it was like, they both started laughing because, you know, clearly Dukakis had no sense of humor. Um, and, and, and George is, George is a very cool guy. Brilliant, brilliant guy.

• 34:33Dan Harris?

  Yes.

• 34:33Speaker 04

  And a very strong interviewer. But yeah, he's not out schmoozing. That's not him.

• 34:37Dan Harris?

  No, at least not that I've seen. All right. Let me ask you a question that I, I suspect you get all the time. We're in a quite a stressful news cycle, at least for, for many people. I think for the people who listen to this show, it's a stressful news cycle. There may be folks who are loving this news cycle, but whatever you feel about Trump, there's a lot going on. And of course there's wars in Ukraine and Gaza and climate stuff. There's a lot to pay attention to, and we now have this technology that floods us, you know, right on our phone. So I know you have to like, just be drinking from the fire hose all the time. But when people ask you like, how do you, how can I consume the news without losing my mind or be, you know, coiled up in rage all the time? Do you have any thoughts on like what you would recommend?

• 35:20Speaker 04

  Look, I, I'm in the news business, so I want to be mindful of how I'm going to answer this question. I, I think you gotta give yourself a break sometimes. If you're getting a crazy amount of news alerts, if you subscribe to four or five different news organizations and their news alerts, I mean, your phone is blowing up probably every hour and you're probably getting the same news alerts just from different news groups. So maybe dial it back there. And I would say just stick with the news organizations that you love and that you respect and you trust. I think nightly news is the gold standard. And then, you know, I would be mindful of the opinion based journalism you're getting. I'm not saying run away from it because I believe the news business is like any business, just like the coffee business, right? Some people like their coffee strong. Some people like espresso. Some people want crazy lattes.

• 36:05Speaker 04

  The news business is not unlike that. There's something for everyone in America. That is capitalism, right? That being said, just be mindful of what you're getting and how you're getting it. And if you're getting it from friends or from Facebook or not verified sources, just be mindful of how you're sharing that kind of stuff. That's the only I would say, right? But everyone's an adult and they can do whatever they want. And a lot of people have turned to alternative news sources because in some ways we have let them down. And I'm not saying we like NBC News. I'll say we as sort of the media in general. And it's upsetting, but I always think that we can maybe win those folks back. And there are still millions of people who have stayed with us because they know what we're doing. It's definitely a tricky time and it's a strange time where you have to go and fact check three different times when you get a news report.

• 36:50Speaker 04

  It's upsetting that Americans feel they have to do that now.

• 36:53Dan Harris?

  It's been four years roughly since I retired and I would say, you know, it was still a heated time when I was in the game, but it's much more divisive and toxic and polarized now. Do you find that you're kind of walking on eggshells to a certain extent because it's so easy to piss people off?

• 37:14Speaker 04

  I don't, and I'm not trying to be coy here or not tell you the truth because I know what we're doing, right? And if you stay focused and you are reporting the truth and you're sticking to the facts and write these mantras, but I truly believe them and I say them in every interview without fear or favor, right? Without fear or favor, I believe in that and tough but fair. Cause I think our job is to be tough in the sense that we're supposed to ask the tough questions because we're working for those people at home. So, and we're in those briefing rooms. So we should ask tough questions, but we gotta be fair. So I don't, I don't walk on eggshells. Do I think our reporting has to be bulletproof? Yes, but it always has to be bulletproof. Since I got into this business, anytime you did an investigation, anytime you did any

• 37:57Speaker 04

  kind of major story, you had to make sure you were buttoned up and it would go through layers and we still have those layers at NBC News. Some of the others, they don't even have a layer and we have a few layers, you know, to make sure that we're right. Obviously we have a bigger target because we have bigger audiences, but going in every night, I know that we have tried our hardest and we have done our best as a news organization to present the stories that are on. And when something's not ready, one of the greatest rules in journalism, when in doubt, leave it out. And if we're not a hundred percent sure, if we're not bulletproof on something, we're gonna hold it.

• 38:29Dan Harris?

  Yeah, to me, none of that sounds coy. Like having been in. You know, a job similar to yours, the truth kind of is a shield. So I might piss people off, but I have checked it twice. I've checked it thrice even. And, and it's not just me. About one of the things that really made me feel protected was because I'm aware that I, like everybody else, have biases, was the fact that there's editorial oversight. Like, it's going through several layers. Your producer who's with you in the field, the producer and the anchor back in New York, legal and standards department, they're all eyeballing this stuff before, you know, it comes out of my mouth on television. And biases can still be in there because I think there are probably cultural biases, you know, shot

• 39:11Dan Harris?

  through the mainstream media for sure. But in my experience inside the belly of the beast, it was a lot of well intentioned people trying to cover the news, as you say, without fear or favor.

• 39:22Speaker 04

  And I think also, I talk about this a lot. I like to think of the newsroom as sort of a family style dinner. And what I mean about that is that I want to hear from people.

• 39:29Dan Harris?

  Yeah.

• 39:29Speaker 04

  So if I, I like to ask questions of the news, like, is this the lead? What do we think about this? Hey, what do you think about this? Because I want to, I want to make sure people are speaking up and hearing because there are a lot of different people in the newsroom from different backgrounds. And I want to make sure we're hearing from everybody to make sure we're getting it right. And that's the benefit of having sort of a bustling, bubbling newsrooms. And you've worked in these newsrooms. Unfortunately, what happened during the pandemic is that, you know, everyone sort of went into work from home and into their silos of, you know, just sort of working in front of a computer and trying to do their own jobs. Now people have come back over the last two, three years to the office place. And it's like, some people, I'm sure it's taken time to kind of come back and talk and be, and it's okay to be loud and to say, what do you think about this? Or I think we

• 40:13Speaker 04

  should do this. And that's what I want. Because I think that, I think that journalism gets better the more we sort of talk and share ideas. And everyone has a sort of piece of the pie.

• 40:21Dan Harris?

  Yes, I completely agree. What I found as I've gotten older is that

• 40:28Dan Harris?

  In the news business, when I was coming up, it was dominated by people who really didn't want to hear your opinion.

• 40:33Speaker 04

  Yeah, no, that is true.

• 40:35Dan Harris?

  And that I took that kind of hierarchical militaristic style into my, now I'm harkening back to my 360 review again, where, you know, the people who worked for me were like, dude, you know, you say you want openness, but like, do you really? And I've really had to work hard to actually mean what I was saying.

• 40:55Speaker 04

  You know, it's a very good point because I've thought about that as well. Because we both worked for some people that were, I think, incredibly talented, who had great ideas and were great newsroom leaders. And they knew instantly whether something was a story or not a story or what was going on. But they made decisions and I think that is, you can do both. I think you can be that person, Dan, and you can also be the person to say, I love the phrase, let's red team it, which red team is like, what's the complete opposite idea? What's like something out of left field? Like, let's lead with this. Like, oh, okay. Because I think that just helps people out because again, it's good to have people that are making decisions that are effective leaders, but also you gotta listen to your people too, I think.

• 41:36Dan Harris?

  I love that. Let's red team it. I'm gonna steal that.

• 41:42Dan Harris?

  Coming up, much more with Tom Yamas.

• 41:54Speaker 05

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 42:24Speaker 06

  My name is Veronica. We started our fundraiser for Mariah. She was a close friend in my heart, but she was also family. She was my sister-in-law. She unfortunately passed from a car accident. So it wasn't something that we were prepared for. Shortly after we got the news, I was put in charge of helping with the funeral arrangements and everything. And just looking at the overall cost, it didn't feel right for me to ask the family that's grieving for money. That's what made me go to GoFundMe. And it just became a network of people that were willing to come together to help.

• 42:59Speaker 07

  GoFundMe is the world's number one fundraising platform trusted by over 200 million people.

• 43:05Speaker 06

  You really do miss out on the opportunity to help people if you don't ask. When you actually put your heart, your soul into it and you're like, this is the reason I'm doing it, it helps a lot.

• 43:17Speaker 07

  Start your GoFundMe today at GoFundMe.com. That's GoFundMe.com. GoFundMe.com.

• 43:24Dan Harris?

  We don't have a lot of time left, but I do want to hear about your parents. As you know, I knew about your Cuban heritage and you are, as I will have said in the introduction to this episode, you're the first Latino anchor of a weekday evening news broadcast, which is amazing and awesome. Well, I guess it's not awesome that it took this long, but it's awesome that you're the one.

• 43:44Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 43:45Dan Harris?

  Your parents' story, I didn't really know all of the details. And so can you share some of it? Because it makes this achievement, I think, even more meaningful.

• 43:54Speaker 04

  Yeah, I want to tell a quick story and we have time, don't worry. But I'm going to tell a quick story, Dan. I don't know if you remember this, but when Fidel Castro died, do you remember this on Weekend GMA?

• 44:04Dan Harris?

  Yeah, I do.

• 44:05Speaker 04

  So Fidel Castro dies and I get awakened either by my wife or a text alert that Fidel Castro has died. And I've thought about this moment as a journalist, as a Cuban American, my entire life, my parents have talked about this moment. It was, Cubans thought it was going to be sort of this, this turning point in Cuba, though it wasn't. And I remember I opened up the New York Times app and the first line of the report was, I think it said something like, "The prince of the revolution has died," something to that effect. And I, of the open in the New York Times, and I immediately wrote an email to you, I think maybe to Paula Ferris and the EP of the show. And I said, listen, I don't know if you guys are gonna be covering the story, but you know, you should really think about two perspectives. Sometimes there is this romanticism that's

• 44:49Speaker 04

  written about Fidel Castro that is completely off base. He was a killer and a liar. And I sent you the email and then you write back, do you want to come on? And I said, okay. And I didn't really think it through, but I said, sure. And we came on and we reported the news. I think we had Jim Avila, maybe even in, I don't know if he was in Cuba, I don't know if we had sent him to Havana, but I think he might've been there. And then I remember we came out and you came to me and I said that and I broke down. And it was kind of wild because I broke down on live TV and I sort of shared the stories of how we grew up having to send food and money and, and put medicine and packets of Kool-Aid into greeting cards and hide them because the government would steal it because there was no money or food.

• 45:34Speaker 04

  It was sort of a crazy moment on live television, but I'm glad I did that. You know, because that's like, that was the whole reason why I had sort of written you because I didn't want, I didn't want it to be sort of whitewashed in a way of, of saying, oh, this, this leader, you know, because some people say he was a hero because he stood up to the United States, but he was a terrible person. He was a dictator in the worst form, you know, and he destroyed a beautiful country. And it was just cool that, you know, you sort of, you saw the passion in the email and you're, you realize you're like, okay, let's, let's put Tom on. And I, I gotta be honest with you, I don't know if, if they were happy, how that turned out.

• 46:08Dan Harris?

  Who?

• 46:09Speaker 04

  But I think it was important.

• 46:10Dan Harris?

  Who's they?

• 46:11Speaker 04

  Management.

• 46:12Dan Harris?

  Really?

• 46:13Speaker 04

  It was definitely a very powerful and impactful television and journalism, but I had heard some stories and again, they could be rumors. I don't know, but like that maybe some weren't super happy about the way that turned out, but it was real. I mean, it, it, it, it doesn't get more real than that.

• 46:25Dan Harris?

  I remember thinking it was incredibly powerful and brave. Not that you had planned it, but

• 46:31Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 46:31Dan Harris?

  to not stuff it down and just to show some basic humanity, given, given what you and your family had gone through. Yeah. If the bosses didn't like it, I think they were behind the times. Like we, we're in a different world where being a full-fledged human is allowed.

• 46:48Speaker 04

  You know, it's interesting because people have asked me about bias in the media and I've heard about bias in the media since I was a child because every time Fidel Castro was interviewed, my parents would have a sort of a post game, you know, like with all like the uncles and aunts and cousins and like talk about was that interview biased or, you know, were they too soft on him? And I remember these conversations as a child. So I remember hearing about sort of bias in the media and how you had to be tough but fair and ask tough questions as a little kid before my parents had any idea that I was going to be in this business. But that has been sort of top of my mind since I was a, since I was a young person.

• 47:24Dan Harris?

  Yeah, and I think I got a better sense of your personal and professional trajectory, reading a little bit more about how your parents had immigrated and not under easy circumstances. It's never easy to feel like you need to flee your homeland, but it's also not easy to get into this country and they have some stories that you might want to talk about. But, but you grew up engaged with the world in ways that most children are not.

• 47:50Speaker 04

  Oh, oh, completely engaged in the world and conversations about communism, conversations about presidential elections, conversations about what was happening with immigration, with the rules surrounding Cubans that were trying to leave Cuba, the Cuban Rafter Crisis, the Soviet Union collapsing and then pulling out of Cuba. I mean, this was like a Tuesday for us. Like we were, we were living through all this in the eighties and nineties. And so watching news in both English and Spanish was an everyday affair and talking about it was very common. I mean, we talked about all things in life, you know, we weren't like, this was dominated our life. But I remember a lot of conversations at any time like someone would call from Cuba, everyone had to be quiet because it was an important call and it was what family needed what and what do we had to send and how this person was doing and this person might

• 48:34Speaker 04

  arrive. Can we help them? But yeah, that, that sort of shaped my childhood in that regard. I think a lot of immigrants and the son of immigrants have a similar experience. Cuba just happened to be a very active player in the global stage. And I think that's why it was so at the forefront of our news viewing and sort of in our lives. And then you had, I was surrounded, you know, my community was 99% Cuban-American. It was literally all my friends, of course, all my relatives, but the baseball teams. I mean, there were obviously other kids who were people that were from Miami or grew up in Florida that weren't from Cuba. But by and large in the eighties and nineties, I mean, it was northwards of 90%.

• 49:12Dan Harris?

  To say the least, immigration is a prominent story in the news right now and you've got to cover it. How does your personal history, your family's personal history color your coverage and do you have to police whatever biases you might have?

• 49:27Speaker 04

  I know I'm under a microscope. So my mom left right after Castro takes over. So her family gets out pretty quickly. They lived in Havana and they come to Fort Lauderdale and life is very hard for them pretty fast. Money runs out and everyone has to start working pretty fast, including my uncle who was a child and my grandmother who had not worked in her life because they had come from an affluent family in Cuba and then suddenly she's taken on multiple jobs. And then my dad's side of the family, they wanted to kind of wait out Castro a little bit and see what would happen. I mean, because it wasn't like politics were incredibly stable in Cuba. So there was always a chance that maybe someone would overthrow Castro. So they stood back and waited about six years and they saw things

• 50:09Speaker 04

  get really bad in those six years. So my dad is getting to a point where his parents don't want him to go to school anymore because they're teaching them that, you know, Fidel will provide and God will not provide. And basically all sort of like the 10 commandments, if you will, of communism. And they're just seeing scary things happen. Political dissent doesn't exist anymore. He starts to devalue the currency. I mean, things are changing. There's obviously things with the United States are getting worse and worse by the day. So they get out and they go through Mexico six years later and they have to actually cross through the Rio Grande. They are political refugees, but they weren't able to fly out of Cuba because at this point Castro sort of shut everything down. So they crossed through

• 50:49Speaker 04

  the Rio Grande and my father and my aunt had to cross the Rio Grande with a coyote and they cross over. They didn't see their parents for a while. It wasn't a long time, but it was kind of one of those moments that my dad obviously would never forget as a child because he was 12 years old. And then my parents, my grandparents come over and they make their way by bus to Miami and they start a life there. They their political exiles and they start that process. And they start from scratch, from nothing, you know, no money, not knowing the language and little by little trying to build up their lives as well, just like my mom's family did and struggled a lot. Just like every Cuban did and and many Cubans who came over had it probably even worse than my parents did. There were a lot of people that came over as children without their parents, what was called Peter Pan flights.

• 51:32Speaker 04

  Pedro Pan, Jeff Bezos is dad, Mike Bezos is actually a Pedro Pan kid. Where basically, things were so bad in Cuba, imagine this, Dan, people were putting their children on planes and flying them to the United States with the help of the Catholic Church. And then these American families would take in these Cuban refugee kids and they would raise them. And some kids never saw their parents again. It's crazy. So they lived through that. That's kind of like the backdrop of us being very engaged, at least me in the news and watching the news. So you ask how I cover immigration. I know there's a microscope on me. I'm the son of immigrants, but I also have a superpower in the sense that just because I can speak Spanish, I can get now the story of the person who is either being detained or who's trying to cross into the United States.

• 52:18Speaker 04

  I know we are a country of laws. I believe in this country. I think it's the greatest country in the planet. My parents thought us to be very proud Americans. And I know that there's there's laws and you got to follow the laws. And so as a reporter, I take all that out of it and I just use what I have, which is my skills, knowing that I can speak Spanish, I can get the story on this side. I can speak to Border Patrol on this side, obviously in English. And to understand what the immigrant experience is, that someone has to get up and walk from Venezuela through Central America into the US. What is going on in their life that they've been compelled to do this with children? And then knowing that there's a reality that they're not going to get in now, that they have been stopped and they have been they have been caught and they're likely going back.

• 52:58Speaker 04

  It's telling that story and that's what I feel my job is. That's it. That is my job to tell what happened. My job is not to advocate for one side or the other. Now, if there are abuses on either side, we will report that and we will always put that on television. But like you said, I mean, the truth is where I'm headed and that's the only thing that I'm concerned about.

• 53:19Dan Harris?

  Makes complete sense and never easy to be under a microscope, but as you just said, I was saying before, the truth is a, is a great shield in these situations. Let me ask you just as a final question here, and I don't know if this is the right button up question because I have no idea where this is going to go, but I read that you hand out this book that I had never heard of called The Lion Tracker's Guide to Life. You hand it out to people.

• 53:44Speaker 04

  Yes, I will send it to you. I give it to people. It's not, it's not like, I'm not like Dan Harris going to like that Saturday party with a trunk full of the 10% happier books, like just like flinging them like, yeah, I'll go to that new party. I'm going to hawk 20 more books. So, no, I don't hand it out, but I give it to people, people who like to think about life and hold a copy of somebody I gave it to because she loves thinking and talking and quotes and just what is our purpose out here? And she's just such a great teacher and friend. But I gave it to her because I was really touched by the book and there are so many great quotes. Essentially, the book is about a kid who grows up in South Africa and his, his family buys a preserve and they rebuild the preserve and they make it this, this, this beautiful area. And it's his connection growing up with

• 54:25Speaker 04

  the guides who are the locals, the, the people who live in Africa, who go out and track the lions and what he's learned from them. And sort of the main focus of the book is this quote, which is, "I don't know where I'm going, but I know how to get there." And the lion tracker listens to that because the lion tracker can get lost suddenly and they may not know where they're going, but they see a blade of grass sort of folded in a strange way. They see what may be a print another way and they follow that. So again, they don't know where they're going, but they know how to get there. And to me, that was like, that's it, man. That, that's what this is about. That's what this journey is about. And it's sort of listening to yourself and believing in yourself and not

• 55:09Speaker 04

  knowing where you're going to end up, but just sort of knowing how to get there. Another great quote, I, I mentioned this with Nahoda too, is that, you know, "Too much chaos is unstable, but too little is not living." And I kind of believe that too.

• 55:22Dan Harris?

  Yeah. Yes. Well, it's also a denial of reality because everything's changing all the time. And if it feels stagnant, then you're, you're missing something big.

• 55:33Speaker 04

  Yeah, I agree with that. And I'm gonna send you a book. I'm gonna send you a couple of books.

• 55:36Dan Harris?

  All right. I appreciate it. Tom, so I'm grateful to you for making the time. You're a busy dude.

• 55:42Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 55:42Dan Harris?

  I really appreciate it. And also just super happy for, as I said before, happy for you, proud of you. It's just great to see.

• 55:50Speaker 04

  Dan, it's been an honor to be here. You are somebody that I have looked up to. You are such a gifted communicator, and I'm so happy that you are still communicating with people in a probably a much bigger platform now and helping people because, I mean, 10% are happier, definitely changed my life. And I know you've changed a lot of lives. So, thank you for hearing me out and listening to my story.

• 56:10Dan Harris?

  Thank you, brother. And as I said before, I get to work in my bathing suit. So it's, uh, it's more comfortable than it gets.

• 56:16Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, no, I'm sure you're in the bathing suit now.

• 56:18Dan Harris?

  I am. I am, I am. Last, last question, Tom.

• 56:22Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 56:22Dan Harris?

  Just remind everybody of the name of your show, where we can watch it, and why we should watch it.

• 56:27Speaker 04

  I got two shows, NBC Nightly News with Tom Yamas. It's on NBC, 6:30 Eastern. A great network newscast. We have a great team. It is the best of NBC News at night. And then we have Top Story, which is on NBC News Now. It is our streaming show as soon as Nightly News wraps. At 6:59 59, we hit a button and the studio comes up and it's Top Story. And it's our streaming show. It's an hour of all the best of NBC News, just a little bit longer and geared a little bit more towards a younger audience.

• 56:54Dan Harris?

  And we can watch that on Peacock?

• 56:56Speaker 04

  On Peacock, on NBC News Now, anywhere where you have a Wi-Fi signal. It's free and it's the future of our business. And NBC News has leaned into it. It's a great product.

• 57:05Dan Harris?

  Thanks again, Tom.

• 57:06Speaker 04

  Thank you, Dan. I appreciate it. Thank you for having me.

• 57:13Dan Harris?

  Thanks again to Tom Yamas. Very proud of him and very cool to have him on this show. Don't forget to sign up over at DanHarris.com and you can join our weekly live meditation and Q and A sessions. Our next one is on Tuesday, December 16th at 4 Eastern. We do these every Tuesday at 4 Eastern. Finally, thank you to everybody who worked so hard to make this show. Our producers are Tara Anderson and Eleanor Vasili. Our recording and engineering is handled by the great folks over at Pod People. Lauren Smith is our managing producer. Marissa Schneiderman is our senior producer. DJ Cashmere is our executive producer. And Nick Thorburn of the band Islands wrote our theme.

• 58:02Speaker 07

  Ready to feel more energized and in control of your health? If you've tried diet and exercise but still aren't seeing the results you're looking for, it may be time to explore a different approach. At OrderlyMeds.com you can connect with licensed medical providers through a simple virtual process, all from the comfort of home, and find out if a GLP-1 treatment may be right for you. Learn more at OrderlyMeds.com. That's OrderlyMeds.com. Compounded medications are not FDA-approved. Eligibility determined by a licensed provider. Individual results may vary. See website for details.