"I Got Out of An Abusive Relationship"

Content Warning: This episode includes discussion of domestic violence, sexual assault, and abuse, as well as references to substance use. Please take care while listening. To honor International Women’s Day, Alex steps out of the studio for a special episode filmed at Harvest Home in Los Angeles, sitting down with Executive Director Sarah Wilson and Harvest Home alum Angie. Angie shares a personal story of how childhood trauma, abusive relationships, and opioid addiction eventually led her to experience homelessness while pregnant. Together, Alex, Sarah, and Angie discuss the realities of domestic violence, the risks of leaving an abuser, and how trauma can shape a woman’s sense of self-worth. They also talk about the power of women showing up for one another, the impact of true community, and how we can better support the women around us. If you would like to get involved with Harvest Home, please visit: https://www.harvesthomela.org/callherdaddypodcast If you or someone you love needs support, please reach out to any of the below resources: The National Women’s Shelter Network https://nationalwomensshelternetwork.org/ National Domestic Violence Hotline Call: 800-799-SAFE (7233) Text “START” to 88788 www.thehotline.org (https://www.thehotline.org/) RAINN (Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network) Call: 800-656-HOPE (4673) or text HOPE to 64673 www.rainn.org (https://www.rainn.org/) National Teen Dating Abuse Helpline Call: 1-866-331-9474 www.loveisrespect.org (http://www.loveisrespect.org/) Crisis Text Line Text HOME to 741741 for free, 24/7 confidential crisis support in English & Spanish Unwell Foundation: https://iamunwell.com/foundation

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Alex Cooper?

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• 0:45Alex Cooper?

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• 1:30Alex Cooper?

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• 2:10Alex Cooper?

  Hi Daddy Gang. Before we get into today's conversation, I just want to share a content warning. This episode is going to include discussions of domestic violence, sexual assault, and abuse, as well as references to substance use. If you or someone you love needs support, I have included resources in the show notes, so please take care while you are listening to this. Welcome to a very, very special Sunday session. I am so honored and grateful to be bringing you this episode today. For those who don't know, today, Sunday, March 8th, is International Women's Day, and I am really excited to use today as an opportunity to

• 2:55Alex Cooper?

  highlight some truly amazing and incredible women. I am going to be sitting down with two women who I have gotten to know through working with an organization called Harvest Home. I began working with Harvest Home pretty much immediately. Once I started the Unwell Foundation, I was looking to partner with groups that put women's issues first and centered conversation around mental health and provided necessary resources for underprivileged groups. International Women's Day feels like the perfect time to honor Harvest Home, because this is an organization that really

• 3:33Alex Cooper?

  reflects what's possible when we as women show up for one another and find strength in leaning on each other. Harvest Home is a safe haven for women who are pregnant and experiencing homelessness. They open their doors to mothers and their children. They provide housing, therapy, financial programs, and so much more to equip these mothers with everything they need during an extremely vulnerable time in their life. From getting to know the stories of the mothers in Harvest Home, one thing I've found is so many of them are coming from unbelievably challenging

• 4:16Alex Cooper?

  situations, ones that are often out of their control. Many of them are survivors of domestic abuse. Many of them are breaking long cycles of generational trauma and

• 4:30Alex Cooper?

  All of them are looking to put the health and safety of their children first. And so today, we will be joined by Sarah, who is the Executive Director of Harvest Home, and by Angie, who is an alumni of Harvest Home that has offered to share her story with us. I hope through this conversation that we are all reminded that women supporting women isn't just this buzzy thing for us to throw around. It is something that can actually be transformative and powerful in its impact, whether it is your friend, your mother, your sister, your neighbor, your coworker. Every single woman in your life is navigating something that they could use support on.

• 5:14Alex Cooper?

  And just showing up for each other actually matters so much more than I think we even realize. So with that, I am at Harvest Home today, and I am so honored to be having this conversation. And I hope you will all enjoy it.

• 5:46Alex Cooper?

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• 6:28Alex Cooper?

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• 7:09Alex Cooper?

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• 7:52Alex Cooper?

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• 8:33Speaker 01

  What is up Daddy Gang? It is your founding father Alex Cooper with Call Her Daddy.

• 8:42Alex Cooper?

  We are at Harvest Home today and I'm joined by Angie and Sarah. Thank you guys so much for joining me and welcome to Call Her Daddy.

• 8:49Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 8:51Alex Cooper?

  Okay, first I just want to kick this off with you Sarah. To someone who may not be familiar today with Harvest Home, could you give a little background of what this is?

• 9:01Speaker 02

  Absolutely. So Harvest Home is a nonprofit organization here in Los Angeles and we work and serve unhoused pregnant women. So we have two homes here in LA where women come in and we help them with all of the physical needs that they need to get back on their feet, but also really just helping them to be equipped with the tools that they need for motherhood.

• 9:24Alex Cooper?

  And what are the types of services that Harvest Home provides for women?

• 9:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, so first and foremost, the physical needs. Obviously, if someone's been, you know, living in the streets or coming out of instability, being able to have a safe space. And I do emphasize safe, that it's not just, you know, being in a shelter. I think one of the things we really pride ourselves in is our homes feeling like home and women really feeling valued and supported and seen when they walk in our doors. And so providing that sense of physical safety in the home, but then all of the other things, you know, we provide healthy food and healthy meals. And because we are maternity focused, it's also everything you need for a healthy pregnancy. So we have, you know, all the classes that are necessary. We have doulas that come in. We have

• 10:11Speaker 02

  therapy onsite. So really, you know, actually, in my own, my own journey to motherhood, I was like, oh, like this is expensive stuff. Like Harvest Home really does like provide a lot.

• 10:22Alex Cooper?

  You're like, I could have used this.

• 10:24Speaker 02

  Oh, 100%.

• 10:25Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. And can you explain like what situations or dynamics would typically lead a woman to come to Harvest Home?

• 10:33Speaker 02

  It looks a little different for everybody. I would say the common thread is either experiencing homelessness, being unhoused, or Or some other type of housing instability. So sometimes it is a woman who's been like physically living on the street. Sometimes a woman's been in a car or more often than not, what we see is somebody who's been couch surfing, you know, from place to place. Maybe they wouldn't even have said they were experiencing homelessness until they're pregnant and realize like, oh, I need some stability. And also people and women who are walking away from unhealthy, unsafe relationships. And so those are, those are some of the biggest things we see.

• 11:14Alex Cooper?

  Angie, when did you first come to Harvest Home?

• 11:17Speaker 03

  I came to Harvest Home in 2023.

• 11:21Alex Cooper?

  2023. And what do you guys remember about first meeting each other?

• 11:26Speaker 03

  Um, I was really nervous at first, just because I didn't know what to expect. I didn't know, um, how it was gonna be because I had been in and out of so many programs, shelters and stuff. So I was just like, well, how is this gonna be? So I was just really kind of meeting it with an open mind and gratitude, obviously, because I was coming from the street, you know, basically in a car like she mentioned.

• 11:51Alex Cooper?

  And when you got here, what ended up being your first impression of Harvest Home?

• 11:57Speaker 03

  Man.

• 11:59Speaker 03

  How was that? A breath of breath there, you know? It was a safety, comfort and, um, just being able to relax and sleep without being worried of I had to look behind my back or anything like that. I was safe in a place on a bed, stretched out fully, not in a car, you know? And, um, I was just secure, you know, safe.

• 12:26Alex Cooper?

  Incredible to finally feel that in your life after probably feeling so unsafe for so long.

• 12:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:32Alex Cooper?

  Sarah, through our work together, you have shared that domestic violence is the leading cause of homelessness for women. Eighty percent of unhoused mothers have experienced domestic abuse. What are some early signs that a woman might be in an unsafe relationship?

• 12:52Speaker 02

  Such a good question. First and foremost, I think, is that their entire world revolves around this person. So often, a relationship that is, you know, does have this abusive element to it, it may not start that way. You know, it starts maybe by feeling like you're that person's whole world. And, you know, it could be, could be what some people think of like falling hard for somebody, right? Like you're their entire world. But then over time, you know, starting to isolate more from the relationships that you have, you know, in your life and starting more and more to maybe things that felt protective

• 13:37Speaker 02

  in the beginning, like, oh, this person is, you know, providing things for me, or this person calls and checks in on me a lot. Like, that feels so wonderful. But over time, you can see that those are actually like controlling or manipulative, manipulative behaviors. I would say first, I would say, though, more than anything, it's those early signs are more visible to people on the outside than they are often to a person inside of a relationship.

• 14:06Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, that's a great point. And how do you think pregnancy could impact when someone is experiencing an abusive relationship?

• 14:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's interesting. So there's actually been, you know, some research, research that has shown that domestic violence actually increases when a woman is pregnant. And, you know, it's wild to me to think about that. But if you think about it, if, if the relational dynamics are often about control, as someone who's experienced pregnancy, you have very little control of what's happening in your body. And I'm sure within the dynamics of the relationship, that, that, you know, that is present as well.

• 14:50Alex Cooper?

  Angie, was domestic violence a part of your story?

• 14:55Speaker 03

  A hundred percent. Yeah, absolutely.

• 15:00Speaker 03

  I think it shaped my whole history of relationships because I had never experienced that until I did. And then when I did, it did such damage that I felt that's all I deserved because I ended up believing what the person was telling me, you know?

• 15:18Alex Cooper?

  When was the first time that you experienced abuse or mistreatment from a man?

• 15:25Speaker 03

  Um, I mean, we can say that since I was like five, really, you know, um, if we want to get into it.

• 15:32Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 15:33Speaker 03

  That was a mistreatment, you know, sexual abuse, that's mistreatment, right?

• 15:39Alex Cooper?

  Yes.

• 15:39Speaker 03

  So that's the first time I actually experienced it. But when I became conscious and aware and a willing participant to the relationship, that was when I was like twenty one.

• 15:48Alex Cooper?

  And did you ever feel like your childhood informed, maybe subconsciously, like some of the partners that you were choosing?

• 15:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, absolutely. A hundred percent. Um, since there was so much objectification and sexualization when I was a child, um, it made me believe that I had to be desirable to the opposite sex in order for me to feel worthy, right? And I've discovered that through therapy and counseling over the years. Um, but if

• 16:23Speaker 03

  you didn't want to fuck me, I didn't feel hot, right? I didn't feel worthy. Can I curse?

• 16:26Alex Cooper?

  Yes, yes, yes, you can curse. Do your thing, girl.

• 16:30Speaker 03

  If you didn't want to, you know, um, sleep with me, I didn't feel like I was good enough, you know? So that also branches off into separate things like self-image, issues, self-worth.

• 16:44Speaker 03

  You know, it can even develop eating disorders or anything like that. Um, I developed a lot of anxiety. Um, so yeah, definitely my childhood, you know, shaped, um, the relationships that I got into.

• 16:59Alex Cooper?

  What was your first serious relationship like?

• 17:04Speaker 03

  Um, I was in high school. And I was with him for like, I think two, three years. I lost my virginity to him. And um, he was a little older and I was in high school still. So I was sneaking out of my house to go s- uh, you know, spend time with him and go drink and smoke and do things that we were doing and um, you know, I, I, I started going towards like the older boys, you know, just because that felt like that's was comfortable. I felt, you know, like I had a way in, uh, I'm sorry.

• 17:47Alex Cooper?

  No, it's, it's okay. I think um, it's a very hard thing to describe as a woman. And I think I've spoken to so many women about being attracted to older men. There is almost back to what you were saying about there is this desire. You feel worthy. You feel like I'm special. There's something about me that like, he wants me for a reason. I'm mature and I can hang out with them and I'm different. And so it does play into our insecurities as a young woman. Don't fault yourself for that because there's so many women who get into those situations and you can yes, look back now and be like, oh, my gosh, I could see it. But at the time, you're just going off of your heart and what you felt.

• 18:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:28Alex Cooper?

  Um, when you would, would, you know, find yourself in situations that you started to realize, okay, this is not healthy. This is abusive. I think abusers typically try to isolate and control their partners, right? You, you referenced that. Um, how was that personally for you showing up in relationships, Angie?

• 18:47Speaker 03

  So um, I was already isolated from the jump because I had moved from California, where I was born and raised and I had my family and graduated from high school. Everything that I knew was in California, so I moved to Washington State after my mom moved there. Um, so I was all alone, right? And I started trying to meet new people. And I met this person and I should have gone with my first gut instinct. Cause my first gut instinct said, I don't really like how you do things. And I said, I don't wanna fuck with you anymore. And he got really upset, right? We didn't talk for like six months. I run into him again and he approached me in a different way.

• 19:31Speaker 03

  And he got me. I was like, oh, maybe I was wrong about you, right? But he played me like a little fiddle, man. And um. Yeah, he approached me a whole different way and um, I was already isolated. I only had my mother there. Um, and then eventually she moved back home to Honduras and it was just me and him. And I was away from everybody. So I only had the few little acquaintances that I had met throughout the first year there. And my work people, companions and um, coworkers and stuff. So um.

• 20:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, I felt like he was my everything because that's what I came home to. That's what I left. That's what I worked on. That's what I put all my time and effort into. That relationship, his son in the household, right? Because as a um, in my culture, as I grew up. You know, really old school, you take care of the house, the children and the man, right? And to an extent, I like being a little house mouse. You know, I really enjoy it. He took it too far though. Like, uh, to a point, I felt like I was just his maid and. Sex servant, pretty much, you know?

• 20:49Alex Cooper?

  When you were going through this isolated, difficult time, where would you turn to find? Relief from the pain and the anxiety that that relationship was causing you?

• 21:02Speaker 03

  Unfortunately, um, that's where my drug abuse started. Um, I didn't have anybody.

• 21:10Speaker 03

  I didn't know the people that I met. Good enough to vent to. I couldn't tell my mom because I felt embarrassed and I felt like I would worry her and stress her out while she's in a different country.

• 21:25Speaker 03

  So.

• 21:27Speaker 03

  I remember I had gotten my wisdom tooth, it was pushing through. And they prescribed me an obscene amount of Percocets. And when I took them, I was like, oh, this is great. I was like, he's yelling at me and talking smack and telling me the dishes aren't done or blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, okay, you know, just, you know, so that's what gave me relief. Unfortunately, that's what I had to lean on. You know, um, I felt like I didn't have anybody else besides the pills.

• 21:56Alex Cooper?

  And when did you realize that this had turned from a coping mechanism to a physical dependence for you?

• 22:03Speaker 03

  Oh, boy. I remember that day clearly because it was snowing outside. Um, and I remember waking up and feeling like I had a cold. And my body hurting and also my chest beating really hard. And I text my friend because she's like, hey, what are you doing? And I was like, I don't feel good. My nose is runny. I got the chills. I feel like I have a cold, you know? And I feel really anxious. And she's the one that said, she's like, well, maybe you're withdrawing. And I was like, what are you talking about? She's like, well, you've been, you know, you're withdrawing, you know? I think you need another pill. You'll probably feel better. And I was like, no, there's no way, you know, I was like, there's no way. And then when she put that into my head, then I started obsessing on that.

• 22:48Speaker 03

  And I was like, oh, my God, I need it. Because now my body is like asking for it. And then I started getting more anxious because I started obsessing on it. So then that triggered that like cycle.

• 23:01Alex Cooper?

  And I think something that you said about, you know, this essentially was a way for you to escape a form of this abuse. Like there was a numbing that when he was being abusive, you were able to kind of be in a different realm essentially because of these drugs. When you look back at that version of yourself, um, how do you think the way that you were treated by those type of romantic partners really, really impacted your confidence as a woman?

• 23:28Speaker 03

  I didn't have any. I didn't have any, I didn't have any self-worth. I felt like I was getting exactly like, oh my god. I felt like I was getting exactly what I deserved, um, because I ended up believing him, right? Believing them. And unfortunately, our brain does this really weird thing that we stick to the negative more than the positives, right? We really, I have to really work on focusing on the positives more than the negatives. And at that point, I didn't have the tools that I have today, right? So looking back, um, yeah, it affected, I didn't have any confidence. You know, I didn't feel like I was worth

• 24:07Speaker 03

  diddly squat, you know?

• 24:08Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. Like, did you internalize, like, were there statements that he would say to you that stuck with you for a long time?

• 24:17Speaker 03

  Um.

• 24:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, that I wasn't gonna amount to anything and that, um, that I wasn't gonna amount to anything. And I was just gonna end up a gutter and dead in a gutter or something like that. Something along those lines.

• 24:34Alex Cooper?

  Oh my god, Angie, I'm so sorry. And now look at you and where you are today.

• 24:40Speaker 03

  Not in a gutter.

• 24:41Alex Cooper?

  Girl, no, you are not. Um, you know, Sarah, I think even while we're speaking about this, um, the statistics say that women will go back to an abuser seven times before walking away for good. Why do you think it's so common to go back to abusive partners?

• 25:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think, kind of thinking about that question of are women going back or is something drawing them back? And, you know, Andrew just spoke about how her identity and worth as a woman was so beat down that she didn't think she was worthy of anything better than that, right? And so, um, thinking about really the isolation and, and also, um,

• 25:29Speaker 02

  Angie hasn't really spoken to it, but the financial abuse is huge. You know, one way of isolating and, and is, is essentially controlling finances. Right? So if, if you don't have a pathway, if you don't have money, then if your option is living in a car or being back in the, you know, a house that's unsafe, hmm, maybe the house doesn't sound so bad at this point.

• 25:53Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 25:53Speaker 02

  Um, I, I can think of, we had a, um, a resident many years ago who was, um, her stepfather was her abuser and she actually viewed the abuse, this is just heartbreaking as he's not charging me any rent. And so these are the, the stories that we, you know, that women tell themselves, the stories that we tell ourselves that we think that it's, we're not worthy of anything more than this. And so, you know, the, what is that phrase? Like the devil you knows better than the devil you don't. Like the known chaos being in that environment actually feels sometimes more safe than stepping out into something that's completely unknown.

• 26:33Alex Cooper?

  Right. Understandably, a lot of women, it feels like the safer option to stay. Um, how does Harvest Home provide safety for women getting out of these really dangerous situations?

• 26:46Speaker 02

  Yeah. So, I mean, Harvest Home is, is not exclusively a domestic violence shelter, but often women coming in, you know, have had this experience. And so, I mean, the first thing is just making sure that both of our homes, our confidential addresses, um, all of our residents start out at our home in Venice and we ask that no one disclose that location for like the first 30 to 60 days that they're in the program because often what comes up is women don't even always recognize that they've been in an unsafe relationship. And so one of the very first things that we do, our group therapy, actually at our Venice home, we do a curriculum, it's called Seeking Safety, and it is from a very basic fundamental place, being able to define what does safety look like? And the number

• 27:30Speaker 02

  of women who walk away from that course and go, oh. I didn't realize, one, I didn't realize I experienced that as a child. I didn't realize I watched my mom, every relationship she's ever been in, you know, just that. And so, starting from a very foundational place of defining what safety looks like. But then I think it's really is, is helping women, you know, Angie spoke to like, just feeling unworthy. And starting from that place of, we believe in you even before you believe in yourself. So, helping women, you know, through therapy and through, you know, the classes that they're partaking in, to really work on those core beliefs and those core wounds,

• 28:11Speaker 02

  and to, you know, really, you know, kind of untie this knot of, I think often women think, well, even walking out of a relationship that's unsafe, it feels like, well, something's wrong with me, or I wouldn't have been there to begin with.

• 28:24Alex Cooper?

  And I know we just lightly touched on this, but I do want to get a little bit more into, I think there are people who have never experienced abuse before, you know, and it may be really hard for them to understand, like, but why wouldn't you just leave? Like, just leave. And I think that's like, a common rhetoric we see often, where people are like, okay, but she could have just left. Like, why did she stay? And it's so privileged to say that, and it's so not that simple for women. Angie, from your experience, could you shed some light on why it felt impossible to escape abusive situations you've been in?

• 29:01Speaker 03

  Absolutely. Sarah touched on it, financial abuse, right? Even though I had my finances, at some point or another, they try to take control, right? So, all of my finances were going into one account that I barely had access to, right? Also, you know, maybe the vehicles, you know, I didn't get, I didn't have my own vehicle. Or also, the self-worth, you know, I felt like...

• 29:33Speaker 03

  I couldn't do any better. I couldn't do it by myself. I needed him for some reason. Um, um, I, I felt like I couldn't possibly succeed on my own because he said it so much, you know, and I ended up believing it, like I said, so like my spirit, my motivation, my um, confidence, my self-worth was just crushed, you know, and I don't think that people um, realize how much verbal abuse has an impact on people. I've, I would rather get punched than verbally abused. Because the punches just kinda, they were off, right?

• 30:17Speaker 03

  But the words have such a deeper cut, you know, especially when they're met with such um, hate and their uh, personality and they're in the way that they say it, you know, or how they're talking to you in such a derogatory way. It has such a weight, you know, that um, I felt like for myself, it just cut me deeper than anything could ever do and it just made it that much harder to leave, you know, because

• 30:49Speaker 03

  there's so many unknowns, right? Like, well, if I leave, like, am I gonna be able to make it financially? If I leave, am I gonna meet somebody worse? If I leave, am I gonna be alone for the rest of my life? If I leave, um, will I ever feel like myself? You know, will I ever heal? Will I ever um, be better, you know? So there's just so much unknowns and, and the, the, the feeling and the pressure of the unknown and the change is so scary sometimes that we rather sit in the misery because it's comfortable and it's familiar, you know, just like Sarah was kinda touching on.

• 31:28Alex Cooper?

  And I feel like from people I've also interviewed, I think that there's verbal abuse and physical abuse, there's an element of brainwashing that happens because

• 31:38Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 31:38Alex Cooper?

  it's like your whole reality is distorted because you are isolated. Because you are alone, because this person is in a position of power and they are abusing you. Day in and day out, you slowly, your sense of self is chipped away at. And then you are kind of beholden to this person. So when people from the outside are like, but she could have just left. What upsets me about that is there's so much emphasis put on why didn't the woman do something about it? And the question isn't, why did he not stop abusing her? Why was he not put in jail? Why was he not taken care of? Why is it always on the woman to fix the problem when the problem is actually the man?

• 32:17Alex Cooper?

  Angie, can you walk me through the year of your life before entering Harvest Home? Like, what was going on? Can you tell me the full story?

• 32:28Speaker 03

  Um, so the year before I came into Harvest Home.

• 32:33Speaker 03

  Um, I had relapsed and I had been hiding my, uh, use for the last year. Um, I was working, you know, I had a little job. I was seeing my son on the side, my oldest.

• 32:51Speaker 03

  And I was just kind of in really an unstable environment, you know?

• 32:58Alex Cooper?

  Can you explain what that was?

• 32:59Speaker 03

  It was so, I was in unstable environment because I kept coming in and out of programs, right? So, um, I couldn't stay clean long enough, you know, to get my own place. And, um, I was in and out of treatments, you know, so that was really unstable. I was really trying, you know, because I really wanted to get my son back. And even though there wasn't like a custody order or anything official on paper or through the courts. Um, I wanted to be reunited back with him. But yeah, that was, that's what kept pushing me to keep trying, right? But, you know, after several overdoses and in and out of treatments, over livings. Um, it was, I was just not stable enough to be able to care for him or give him a good

• 33:42Speaker 03

  life for him to thrive because I wasn't even thriving, right? So, um, before I came to Harvest Home, I was, like I said, in and out of treatment. My current partner at the time, um, he, you know, kept, you know, kept trying to help me. He just didn't know how. Um, so he would, you know, encourage me to go to treatment and um, show up at treatments where I was at and be there for me and be consistent and be, you know, supportive and he believed in me, you know? So I found out I was pregnant, um, I was in my addiction.

• 34:20Speaker 03

  I could not stop. I wanted to stop and I would pray every night crying, you know, that I, I, I was scared that I was hurting my baby. And I just couldn't stop, you know, so then, um,

• 34:36Speaker 03

  he's like, I think you should go back to treatment, right? And I ran away. So that's how I ended up sleeping in a car, you know, out on the street, um, for a few weeks and then, um, I knew something had to change, you know? So I started Googling places. Uh, I was too far along to go into detox without risk of losing my son. And then I was too far along to go into a treatment, right? And uh, nobody else would take me. So then, uh, I found Harvest Home. I called them, I did the interview and then I was really hoping that, you know, they would call me back and they called me back the next day with an in-person interview. And then they interviewed me in person and the person that interviewed me, um,

• 35:22Speaker 03

  it was such like a spiritual thing, like every time I talk about it, I always cry.

• 35:29Speaker 03

  Because I remember being so desperate for help and, um,

• 35:36Speaker 03

  so desperate for God, you know, and guidance that, um, I think it just put me exactly where I needed to be because she ended up just praying for me out of nowhere. You know, and, um, I was so grateful for that. Um.

• 35:53Speaker 03

  Because that kind of kickstarted a a much deeper relationship that I have with my god, you know, and um that's how I got into Harvest Home, you know, I think I was like, what, six, six and a half months pregnant or so? And um I got into the Venice house and um

• 36:16Speaker 03

  you know, I was doing counseling and therapy and um all these classes that I had to do just to make sure that I had all my ducks in a row, because I was terrified that they're gonna take my baby away. Because I had drugs in my system, right? And um

• 36:35Speaker 03

  I don't know. Like, since I was a little girl, like, I always played with my baby dolls and being a mom, you know, and playing house and um that's all I wanted to be a mom, you know? So scared that they're gonna take my son away, so I tried to be proactive. You know, no, I did. I was proactive, you know, with everything that I was doing, uh, my counseling, uh, my uh medications, my therapy, my uh psychiatrist, everything and everything, I was just taking care of. I was in and out of that Venice house like crazy. And of course, he comes early, when I'm totally unprepared. I had nothing. I literally had nothing, right?

• 37:16Speaker 03

  And I came home one day to my room in Venice and there was like this big bassinet with all kinds of baby clothes.

• 37:29Speaker 03

  With all kinds of baby clothes and bottles and like um bibs and um everything that I didn't have that I needed, you know?

• 37:42Speaker 03

  I was so grateful, um, because he came early.

• 37:47Speaker 03

  And uh, you know, they were telling me that there might be some risks of him like withdrawing the, you know, from birth and I had heard so many stories from being in and out of the rooms of NA, um, you know, you hear stories and you hear people of their babies, like, you know, being addicted and growing, you know, withdrawing when they were born, and I was praying every night in my room that he would be okay.

• 38:15Speaker 03

  And by the grace of God, he didn't experience one single symptom.

• 38:19Alex Cooper?

  God. Wow.

• 38:23Alex Cooper?

  Oh, my gosh, Angie.

• 38:25Speaker 03

  He was a whole month early, no withdrawals, no breathing problems, no stomach problems, nothing. I knew I would never, ever touch another drug in my life.

• 38:35Alex Cooper?

  Wow.

• 38:35Speaker 03

  It was like he had given me such a miracle and such proof of his presence.

• 38:41Speaker 03

  That I was like, I'm never turning back. I'm always gonna go forward and I'm not gonna give this gift up ever. You know, because I didn't care for my life, of course, you know, because I was just doing such reckless things during my addiction. But he was born and nothing happened. I was just like, never again.

• 39:01Alex Cooper?

  Such a blessing. Wow.

• 39:05Alex Cooper?

  I, um, thank you for sharing that story because even just you talking about that, it's, and I'm sure everyone watching and listening, like, I can see understandably how hard you were being on yourself because you have this baby coming. But to hear the beginning of your story and how this man beat down your confidence so intensely, how he was abusing you, how you were in this really, really horrible situation to the point where it drove you one day after getting that surgery to be like, oh, my gosh, this alleviates that pain and I don't want to live in this pain of being abused. And then this cycle just, it continued. And then now to see where you're sitting here today, like,

• 39:50Alex Cooper?

  you are a fighter that got through that abuse and so many of these things that happened to you were because of what he put you through. Um, and how beautiful that you were able now to give your child this better life and it's because of you. It's not because of him, it's because of you and the work that you did on yourself. It's incredible. When someone in Angie's position does reach out looking for that immediate help, what does the intake process look like?

• 40:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, so she mentioned our Venice home. So we have all of our new residents enter in through our home in Venice and you know, it's it we first just do an interview to make sure they're okay, make sure they're they're safe, you know, do they have a place where they're, you know, able to be for the immediate future, right, for the next couple of days until we're able to to bring them in. But it really isn't just a conversation of like where, you know, what is happening in your life? What are the the needs that you have? What are the goals that you have? How can we support you in those things? And really, the the entire design of our our home in Venice is really just providing a place for women to feel safe and to stabilize. And so our goal is to help

• 41:06Speaker 02

  women, you know, come in as quickly as possible. It is kind of funny because, you know, the things that typically within our process, like, well, we're not a domestic violence shelter, even though we show we serve a lot of women who are walking out of that experience or through that experience. And we're not rehab, you know, and it's it's really funny to me that in both of those situations for Angie, like that is, you know, you weren't actively in a domestic violence situation when you when you came to Harvest Home. But but to me, it just it shows how important it is to to take a risk on people and believe in them, right? And this woman has just it's just so amazing all of it. She's like walked through and accomplished in the last couple of years. So.

• 41:50Alex Cooper?

  Angie, I know, obviously, you started in the first Venice location, and then you eventually became a long term resident at Harvest Home. How did that feel? And how did it go?

• 42:03Speaker 03

  Um, it was a little scary at first, you know, just because there's more people in this house because it's bigger, right? And but as far as like the, you know, dealing with the baby, I was already kind of in a routine because he came early. I actually had him at the Venice house when he was supposed to be here, you know, they move us here before we have our babies. And he just wanted to come. So he was early. But when I came here,

• 42:34Speaker 03

  You know, I was already kind of ready, uh, you know, in a routine of of the baby, right? But then when I started doing the groups with the other moms and the other babies and seeing each other's process and um progress and process with the babies and you know, being able to bounce off like concerns and ideas and like you know, just kind of check in on each other. I'm like, hey, I heard you had a rough night last night, cuz you know, I I was up too, you know, like, are you okay? And like, yeah, I'm good, you know, or you know, just kind of being there for each other because as a new mom

• 43:08Speaker 03

  not everybody understands unless you've been through it or you're in it, you know what I mean? And uh a lot of my friends and support groups, support system, you know, their children are older, you know, so they're not in the infant toddler stages, right? So having somebody to be, you know, in with it, you know, like, we're in it together, we're we're doing this thing together, we're, you know, we're doing it at the same time. It just gives you kind of like more confidence and like strength to do so. I was like, well, if she can do it, I can do it, right? Kind of like bouncing off of each other. And I've met so many wonderful women in here, like with just such big caring hearts. It's just

• 43:51Speaker 03

  a blessing, you know, and to see their children grow and to see them grow with their children, like as a mother, as a woman, as whatever they're doing in their field, it's so cool, you know, to see them blossom to who they really are, especially from hearing their stories of where they came from. You know, I was just like, yeah, girl, get it, you know, like, that's right.

• 44:18Alex Cooper?

  No, it's obviously, I think there's nothing more powerful than community through women to uplift each other. Can you remember a time where another woman here really helped you through a difficult time during those first initial months of, you know, having your son?

• 44:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, um I think um I really

• 44:42Speaker 03

  Do well on praise, right? I found that out. I think everybody does to an extent. And I remember this woman was so genuine with her um admiration towards me, I guess is the word um that it made me feel so good that I wanted to keep doing better. You know what I mean? And she was so like, you're so strong. I always see you. You're on top of your stuff and you're in and out and you're always busy and you're always doing something and I know that if you can do it, I can do it. She's like, I always looked up to you. And she is just such a sweet, sweet, kind, loving person

• 45:25Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 45:25Speaker 03

  that I gravitated toward her too, because she was so strong and even her story too. She was just she's the gentlest woman I think I've ever met, you know, and um she helped me a lot through a lot of times that she probably doesn't even know that I was struggling mentally. And she would just come up to me and tell me random little things. She's like, damn, she's like, I really admire how you do A, B, and C, you know? And she probably has no idea that like that helped me so much.

• 45:57Alex Cooper?

  And also hearing Angie from the years that you experienced the complete opposite of people telling you you weren't worthy and you weren't going to amount to certain things, like to have other women that have no agenda other than just being honest, being like, I recognize these beautiful um parts of you. How amazing then you are internalizing those finally for the first time in a long time. And you deserve to internalize those because they're accurate to who you are as a woman. Um, how do you think when you look back at your time at Harvest Home, did your confidence shift from what we did initially talk about where it was? You didn't have that confidence at all?

• 46:37Speaker 03

  Oh, boy. Uh, it's a complete one eighty. I still struggle, you know, with my little

• 46:42Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 46:42Speaker 03

  negative talk. Uh.

• 46:45Speaker 03

  But yeah, like because you know, Harvest Home, like, we cook for each other, right? Like, we we cook like once a week for each other and um, I forgot how much I love to do that, right? So like certain little things that they implement here in the program that kind of reawaken some things in you, right? Like whether it's exercising or crafts or cooking or um, just being with the littles, you know, and um,

• 47:16Speaker 03

  I think the cooking really helped me get into that a lot because i- it's such a love language for me. Like, I've always loved cooking and I love cooking for everybody else. So like, that made me feel so capable. A- and the kitchen makes me feel in control, you know, because I know what I'm doing with these things and I know what the timing of everything is. Like, so it's my my little center of control, right? Like, I can't control anything else, but I can control how this dinner is gonna look, right? So um, that helped me a lot, eh, personally, you know, the cooking, especially, you know, when everybody enjoyed it and they weren't faking it, you know? So that was even the best thing. Like, I remember one of the girls was um,

• 47:59Speaker 03

  she, when I first, the first meal I cooked, I think it was like a marry me chicken or something like that. She's like, dang, that chicken was fire. And she had never talked to me before, right? She was like, that chicken was fire. She's like, and that rice was perfect. I was like, I've been making rice since I was like eight, you know? And um, so that felt really good, you know? So I was just like, okay, well, I'll keep cooking, you know, and then every time I cook, no complaints, you know, and it was um, that made me feel really capable.

• 48:27Alex Cooper?

  And it makes me so happy for you because you did say, you know, in that, those relationships you had, you were supposed to take care of that household and you were cooking for these men and it wasn't met with anything of thank yous or appreciation. And so the fact that you do have such a love for it, but you probably lost that love because it came with control and fear, you now got to reassociate something you love so much and have people be not only just enjoying your food, but also giving you thanks for something that you put a lot of hard work into, which is beautiful.

• 49:17Alex Cooper?

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• 49:58Alex Cooper?

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• 53:33Alex Cooper?

  And Sarah, could you talk about some of the ways that Harvest Home puts a focus on the community for the women? I know you guys just talked about the nightly dinners. There is group therapy. What impact do you see from these resources?

• 53:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely. I do think that the relationship building is kind of, sometimes people are like, what's the secret to your sauce? Like you have really strong outcomes and see so many women being successful. And it really is that communal relationship building and certainly among the residents, but also from our staff, like the staff, we have such a caring staff that truly sees the women here as valuable and worthy and capable and just has such vision for their goals to come to fruition. And so I think that's so amazing. But on the community relationship side, so that nightly dinner, so every dinner, every night, Monday through Friday, six o'clock, our residents sit down

• 54:31Speaker 02

  and share a meal together. And I would say the number, I mean, Harvest Home is 40 years old. Like the piece of feedback that I feel like is most consistent is how stabilizing and normalizing just that nightly dinner practice was. And just, I mean, the number of women who have said like, I thought that was just on TV. Like people actually do this? And then moving out on their own and like, they're like, I have a toddler and I'm still cooking my nightly dinner, you know, for my toddler. And so that, but what I love is you could literally go to that dinner on a Monday and everybody's mood and energy would be one way. And on the Tuesday, it's like completely opposite end of the spectrum, you know, nobody talks or whatever. But that, isn't that what real life feels like? Isn't

• 55:14Speaker 02

  that what family feels like? That we feel safe? We can show up in our home however we need to, just as we are. And so that, and then every night, Monday through Friday, we have classes as well. And so we mentioned the group therapy, but each of those times are just the times for women to connect. They're building skills, they're learning, you know, new things. But I think what it solidifies over and over again is I'm not alone. Like there's other people who are walking through this. Same thing. And, and then, you know, like Angie mentioned, like it's the, the moments in the kitchen in the morning where like two bleary eyed women are like, I heard your kid last night. You heard my kid, you know, and

• 55:53Speaker 02

  um, those things are just like, oh gosh, these postpartum bodies, like whoa, I'm didn't expect this to happen, you know, just um, I, I actually think that, um, after my own like experience becoming a mother, realizing how isolating in general, the experience of becoming a parent can be. Um, and so what a gift it is to really be able to, I mean, I consider it such a gift to be able to have community with our residents here. And it's just, you know, it's, it's really wonderful.

• 56:25Alex Cooper?

  It is really beautiful. Um, you know, when we volunteered here, seeing these women, the way they interact with each other, the respect that they have for each other. Um, the community that you have built here and you have built here with all these women, it is really inspiring. Um, you know, Angie, I know eventually, obviously you left Harvest Home because you were ready for independent living. But after years and years of being put down by these romantic partners and experiencing abuse, how did the positivity of Harvest Home change your outlook for what your future could look like when you were ready to leave?

• 57:06Speaker 03

  When I left, um, I was still really nervous, but I felt more grounded. I felt more capable. I felt more sure of myself as a mother, right? So next I had to work on all the other areas, right? Like I had to get my uh, foot back in the door of like school, uh, to get, you know, where I wanted to go. Um, and it gave me the confidence to do it. You know, it gave me the confidence to actually be like, yeah, I can do that instead of like, oh no, I don't know if I can, or making excuses. Cause I'm good at making excuses for myself, you know? Or no, I have a kid or, or no, I can't do it with my son or blah, blah, blah. No, Harvest Home gave me the, uh, confidence to say, I can do this and that and more.

• 57:51Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 57:52Speaker 03

  You know what I mean and I did like I was able to go to school. I I finished my course as a a peer support. Specialist, you know, medical peer support specialist um and I'm gonna take my state exam soon. You know, and I'll be working in the field soon. I'm not sure where I'm gonna end up at, but I'm. Confident that it'll be okay. I'm not terrified by the future and I'm not like super. Scared about it, you know, so it gave me like a good footing. It gave uh our relationship a good footing to start off on. And to s- continue to seek help, which we have, you know, me and my partner have. He's in counseling, he does his therapy, I do my counseling, I do my therapy.

• 58:37Speaker 03

  We keep up on our uh on our agendas, you know, like we we do things differently. We hear each other out. It's the healthiest relationship I've been in. We've had our ups and downs. But that wouldn't have been possible, you know, without the experience that I had here, without the therapy, the classes, the the hope. You know, the hope that I got here, you know, that the courage, the. They believe, like she said, they believed in me before I did in myself, right? They loved on me until I could love on myself because I'm always the one to love everybody else. And I forget to fill up my own cup, you know, and um they're always on.

• 59:19Speaker 03

  What are you doing for yourself? What are you gonna do for yourself tonight? What are you gonna do for you today, you know? And they always bring me back to self, right? Because that's where it starts. That's where everything begins within me, you know, um. It's been invaluable, you know, um now I have my own two bedroom. Now I have both of my kids full time. You know, and including my oldest and I've been fighting to get my oldest and I. Finally have him, you know, he's nine years old and he's finally with. I'm sorry, I'm just so happy that he's with me.

• 59:55Alex Cooper?

  I'm so happy for you. How did that feel when you finally got custody of both of your boys?

• 1:00:03Speaker 03

  Um surreal. I was fighting for it and it just happened in an instant, you know, and I was just so happy. And uh, you know, we're building our, our, we're starting to build our routine, you know, we're starting to build our little schedule. Uh, with my son, you know, the old, my, my oldest Draven. And uh, he seems so happy there, you know, he never wanted to go home anyways in the, in, when he did come and visit, you know? And um, that's why I got the two bedroom, you know, to be able to have the space for both of them. And I want to give them what I never had, you know, I want them to be able to have their voice.

• 1:00:45Speaker 03

  I want their be able, them to have a choice in what they want to do. I want them to feel safe to come to me to tell me anything, right? And I've been practicing that with my oldest because through the transition between coming with me and coming from his dad, you know, it's, there's a difference, you know, and there's some, you know, issues in between. That we're, you know, kind of smoothing out in the process.

• 1:01:13Speaker 03

  But I just love that

• 1:01:17Speaker 03

  I'm present enough today, that I'm here enough today as my whole self to be able to be there for my son, like my mom tried, you know, and she did the very best she could and I love my mother, but today we have more tools. We have more knowledge, um, we have more information, right? So, um, I wanna carry all of that into, I wanna pour all of that into my son and I want to, you know, make him realize what Harvest Home made me realize, you are enough, you are worthy, you can do whatever you want, you know, so to be able to pour what they poured into me into my children.

• 1:02:02Speaker 03

  Means a lot to me because it's done a lot for me and I want that for my kids, you know?

• 1:02:09Alex Cooper?

  Well, they are very lucky boys. They have a very strong mother. Who has fought so hard to be able to be present for them and be there and change the course of your history and you know, transgenerational trauma and what your mom went through and who you are today like that takes strength and that takes true effort. It takes pain. It takes time. It is not easy. I think a lot of people think, oh, well then just get better, just get better. And it's like, it is, this is for the rest of your life. Like, we have to work on ourselves for the rest of our life and it can either be scary or you can embrace it. And it's so clear that you

• 1:02:50Alex Cooper?

  have embraced this part of your life and it's going to change yours and your family's lives, which is so beautiful. I also think in wrapping up, one of the last things I do want to emphasize, because I think this is so applicable to everyone who will watch this episode is the power of women and community and obviously, there's a lot of times where women can feel pitted against each other and we can feel like there's competition in a room. But Harvest Home and your story today is such a testament to when we do come together as women. How powerful it can be and how we can actually get ourselves out of these horrible situations that we should have never had to have been in in the first place, but it happens.

• 1:03:36Alex Cooper?

  If you guys have any advice, maybe for people listening, if someone is, you know, watching and they have a friend who is in a toxic or abusive relationship right now. How can a friend be there to support their friend through that time? Like, what's the right way to do that in your opinion?

• 1:03:56Speaker 02

  Keep showing up. That's what I would say. And the, you know, you touched on that number of how many times it takes for someone to actually walk away. And also shared early on in our conversation about how isolating, you know, those, those unsafe relationships can feel. And keep showing up. Just keep showing up. Don't always, and, and it doesn't, every conversation.

• 1:04:21Speaker 02

  It's to what Angie just spoke of, of wanting her children to feel safe coming to her. Be the person that people feel safe coming to without judgment, without shame, without harping on the boyfriend or the person all the time. Be the safe person, keep showing up.

• 1:04:38Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. Angie, do you have any advice that you wish you could go back and share with your former self?

• 1:04:47Speaker 03

  Um, don't go with that guy.

• 1:04:51Speaker 03

  Don't do it.

• 1:04:53Speaker 03

  Listen to your gut. Uh, definitely that, um, trust myself more, right? Trust your gut, trust your instinct, trust who you are, right? Because when somebody shows you who they are, believe them the first time. Trust yourself, listen to yourself, but trust who you are as a woman, you know? Trust who, what you want, what you don't want, what you tolerate, what you don't tolerate. Trust that, don't budge for anybody or anything. That's what I would tell myself.

• 1:05:26Alex Cooper?

  It is so beautiful that you are at a place where you can be sitting on this couch and giving advice to women, right? Who may be in a position where you were years ago, like, how does that feel?

• 1:05:40Speaker 03

  Uh, I, uh, I have no words, honestly. Um, I never thought I would be here because I believed that for so long that I was gonna die a gutter junkie, you know? I believed that for so, so long. So now that, um, I'm here today, it's surreal. I still don't know how to feel, um, I'm sure, I'm awake, that hurt.

• 1:06:02Alex Cooper?

  Um, Like pinch myself, okay, we're good.

• 1:06:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, um, it's just surreal, you know? And, um, I'm still glad that.

• 1:06:12Speaker 03

  My um my friends were right, you know, like my biggest asset is my story and my story is the biggest thing that can help somebody else. And for a bit like a long time, I'd be like, I don't have anything to say. I don't have anything worth blah, blah, blah. Again, that's just my um my little negative side talking and I, you know, we put work, I've put work into that into just kind of brushing it off, be like, that's not true, you know, like um so those positive affirmations, the confidence building, the um it takes some effort, it takes some time, it feels weird at first, but it's worth it because now like I believe it and I don't believe the negative anymore.

• 1:06:53Speaker 03

  I don't focus on the negative, I believe I I focus on the positives, you know, like those little glimmers during the day. Um I start my day with a gratitude list, I start my day with prayer, I start my day with the um the verse of the day, you know, and um that's how I start my day with gratitude, you know, like an attitude of gratitude. And that's um what's helped me so much because I came from nothing, you know, I have never had a stable place in my life for more than like a year until recently, you know, I've moved so much. So now that I'm

• 1:07:33Speaker 03

  stable with my kids in my own place with my name on it, right? I have the keys for it, they're mine, you know? It's just amazing, you know, um it feels so good, you know, to be able to tell my kids like this is our home. Nobody can get mad at me and say, get out. Nobody can tell me, I'm done with you, get out, you know? I'm the boss, I'm the one that has that, it's my house, right? So it's our house with my kids, of course, but

• 1:08:08Alex Cooper?

  It's my house, let's go.

• 1:08:11Speaker 03

  I have it decorated how I want to. I clean it how I want to. I organize it how I want to. And my partner just says yes. Which is the best word.

• 1:08:21Alex Cooper?

  He's like, you know what, babe? Sure.

• 1:08:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:08:23Alex Cooper?

  Do your thing. And you deserve that. Your story is so inspiring and I'm so happy for you to hear how we, you know, you started to where you are now. Again, it's just a testament. Like you did that. And obviously Harvest Home had such an impact. Sarah, if someone is listening who wants to support Harvest Home, what is the best way for them to get involved?

• 1:08:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely. Well, if you're here in LA, we would love to have folks join us as, anyway, they're ready to step in. Honestly, volunteers, I think that's another relational aspect. We didn't really talk about of just when women have been isolated and people show up and say like, hey, we want to support you. We're here to help. Just how much that speaks. People you don't even know. And so we have opportunities to volunteer. Certainly always opportunities for people to to support financially. And so, yeah, well, I'm sure our website will be in the show notes or something, but if people are not, you know, in Los Angeles, find a place locally to show up and and serve and, you know, be of support to others. So.

• 1:09:29Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:09:30Alex Cooper?

  I cannot thank you both enough for sharing your story today, for informing us on what Harvest Home can do. And again, like if you're not in Los Angeles, there's so many other places like this that are changing women's lives. And I am so inspired and I know that your story is going to reach so many people and touch so many people in a way that, you know, we don't know who's going to listen to this and it could inspire them to literally that day, call for help. And you did that today. And so, thank you so much, Angie, for

• 1:10:02Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 1:10:03Alex Cooper?

  being vulnerable. I know this can be intimidating with cameras and all the things. You were a pro. Thank you so much. And I think this was a perfect way to celebrate International Women's Day. So, thanks, ladies.

• 1:10:13Speaker 03

  Thank you for having us. Thank you so much.

• 1:10:16Alex Cooper?

  Okay Daddy Gang, I hope this episode was as meaningful for you as it was for me.

• 1:10:23Alex Cooper?

  As women, our community with each other is vital to our success in this world. That is a fact. And when we choose to meet each other with kindness and sensitivity instead of judgment, the impact can be genuinely life-changing, as we just heard today. To anyone watching today who saw parts of themselves in Angie's story, I want you to know that you are not alone, whether you are struggling with an abusive relationship or unstable living situation, or maybe you're just in a really challenging time of your life. You deserve support. You deserve compassion. There are so many resources out there that literally exist because you should not have to navigate this without community. In the show notes, I have included contact information

• 1:11:07Alex Cooper?

  for the National Women's Shelter Network, the National Domestic Violence Hotline, the Rape Abuse and Incest National Network, and the Crisis Texting Line. If any of those could be helpful to you, I highly encourage you to reach out. And for those watching and listening who are in a position to give back, there are a ton of ways to get involved with both, yes, Harvest Home and the Unwell Foundation. I can put more information in the show notes. Whether it's financial support or volunteering, truly, anything helps to make an impact. So, I love you guys so much and I am so grateful that we got to share this together today.

• 1:11:52Alex Cooper?

  Go call your girlfriends, check in on your loved ones, and remember that the community of women around you truly is everything. Daddy Gang, I will see you guys on Wednesday. Love you. Bye.

• 1:12:22Alex Cooper?

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• 1:13:03Alex Cooper?

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• 1:13:44Alex Cooper?

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