Sarah J Maas: The Wait Is Over

Join Alex in the studio for an interview with Sarah J. Maas! SJM shares the exclusive announcement that new ACOTAR books are coming, answers the Internet’s burning questions, discusses her complicated female characters, and opens up about how she worked through her darkest moments. Enjoy!

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Alex Cooper?

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• 1:23Alex Cooper?

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• 2:04Alex Cooper?

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• 2:15Alex Cooper?

  What is up daddy gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper, with Call Her Daddy.

• 2:24Alex Cooper?

  Sarah J. Maas, welcome to Call Her Daddy.

• 2:26Speaker 01

  Oh, thank you. I'm so excited to be here.

• 2:28Alex Cooper?

  This is like, I have never had more people asking me, okay, so like, if I buy my own plane ticket, could I just fly in and like, sit in the corner and just like, maybe meet her? And I'm like, stop it, guys. No. Never had more people.

• 2:42Speaker 01

  Um, same. Same with you, my friends who like, don't give a shit like what I do for a living. Suddenly they hear I'm coming here and they're like, oh, like I could be your assistant for the day. And like, have I told you how much I love you? And I'm like, I wish you guys could come, but at the same time.

• 3:00Alex Cooper?

  No.

• 3:01Speaker 01

  No.

• 3:02Alex Cooper?

  We're like merging our two worlds.

• 3:03Speaker 01

  You've made me cool to my friends who usually only see me in my like ugly casual clothes. That's our, that's our dress code, ugly casual.

• 3:11Alex Cooper?

  I am honored that you're here. I also want to give everyone watching the, I just want to say, spoilers could happen in this episode if you haven't read all of the series. So I would just beware. Don't come for me on social media if we talk about things that you're like, what do you mean? Like, just prepare yourself.

• 3:30Speaker 01

  You guys have had plenty of time to read. Plenty of time.

• 3:33Alex Cooper?

  Very true. Um, okay. You are the best selling author of Throne of Glass, Crescent City, and the Acotar series. You've broken publishing records. You have sold over 75 million copies of your books. And I am such a huge fan and I'm so excited to sit down with you today.

• 3:52Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 3:52Alex Cooper?

  Welcome to Los Angeles.

• 3:54Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 3:55Alex Cooper?

  What are you in LA for?

• 3:56Speaker 01

  I'm only here to be with you. You're the only reason that I would actually come to Los Angeles.

• 4:02Alex Cooper?

  Do you come here often? You're like, no, no. We don't like LA.

• 4:05Speaker 01

  Well, you know, we used to live here. So of course, like, I don't like, I like LA, but like, I mean.

• 4:10Alex Cooper?

  You're just here for this.

• 4:11Speaker 01

  Or I'm here just for you. Just for you, Alex.

• 4:13Alex Cooper?

  I am honored.

• 4:14Speaker 01

  Only for you would I drag myself across the continent to Los Angeles.

• 4:19Alex Cooper?

  Thank you. Okay. If you're on a plane, can you ever work on a draft? Or it's like way too risky?

• 4:26Speaker 01

  I'm on deadline right now, actually, working on something. But I had to work. I had to work. And then the worst thing was, is that like, my husband, who was supposed to be helping with the kids, just takes a nap.

• 4:38Alex Cooper?

  So you're writing and you're holding children.

• 4:40Speaker 01

  And the kids are like, mommy, like, can you get me a new sparkling water? Like mommy, my iPad turned off. And like Josh is just there like snoring, the dog's like sleeping next to him. And I'm like, what, what is this? What? I was about to throw a bucket of water.

• 4:54Alex Cooper?

  You're like, this is why my fans are mad at me, guys. Okay, I need to lock in.

• 4:58Speaker 01

  Yes, yes. I was like, there is like, we need to like, get this. There's no time for naps, for spouse naps anymore. Yeah.

• 5:05Alex Cooper?

  I feel like you're also known for your writing playlists.

• 5:08Speaker 01

  Okay, yeah.

• 5:09Alex Cooper?

  What have you been currently listening to for inspiration?

• 5:12Speaker 01

  Weirdly, like weirdly enough, like I heard the soundtrack to that, the Rob Pattinson, like the Batman thing. And like, there was like certain like pieces in that that just like spoke to me. And like, yeah, so that was like, kind of like the current thing. But then like, I mean, it's not really like inspiration, but like K-pop Demon Hunters, I'm still playing that nonstop in my house. And like even my seven year old son has been like, okay, like we're kind of over that. And I'm like, we are never over this movie. We are never over the soundtrack.

• 5:42Alex Cooper?

  That's when you know you've lost it, where your kids are like, can we stop mom? And you're like, no.

• 5:46Speaker 01

  And I'm like pre-gaming in the shower, like listening to the golden.

• 5:50Alex Cooper?

  Babe, we need to calm down.

• 5:52Speaker 01

  Yes. No, like, like I bought the vinyl record.

• 5:56Alex Cooper?

  Oh, you're in it, Sarah.

• 5:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I play it when my kids are at school, I put it on and I play it on repeat to the point where my housekeeper thinks I'm having like a mental breakdown.

• 6:04Alex Cooper?

  Down.

• 6:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:05Alex Cooper?

  And the kids aren't there. So you really know you're in love.

• 6:08Speaker 01

  Like it's, it's my jam.

• 6:10Alex Cooper?

  Okay. Can you tell us like, what is your ideal writing setup?

• 6:16Speaker 01

  I'm not like a fancy writer. Like I, I don't write publicly. Like I don't want to be in a cafe. Cause like I, I like get very into my stuff. So like, I'll be crying, like to feel what my characters feel. Like I have to like emotionally connect with them. So if it's like a devastating scene or just like a very emotional scene, like I will be sobbing. Yeah, like my husband has like walked in to like my bedroom where I actually write in my bedroom. And he's like seen me just like weeping and he just like quietly closes the door. He's like, yeah, we're, we're, we're not.

• 6:46Alex Cooper?

  Like a normal husband would be like, babe, are you okay? And he's like, got it. We're on like a big chapter.

• 6:51Speaker 01

  He hears me like blasting like my like, you know, classical music movie scores and I'm weeping, sobbing, like typing as fast as I can. And he's like, okay, yeah, yeah.

• 6:57Alex Cooper?

  So the bedroom.

• 6:58Speaker 01

  Yeah. So like, I just have a desk in my bedroom. Like, I don't know, like they say, don't work in your like, where you sleep, but like, I don't know. It's like a cozy, happy space for me. Like when I'm in an office, I've just come kind of like, I don't know. It's not like my vibe.

• 7:12Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 7:12Speaker 01

  Like it used, I used to want to have like my own office, but now I just like, I like to have my own little like tiny cozy space. And like, I keep a very tidy desk, um, but it's like covered with like crystals and like ridiculous things like La Boo Boo. I have a La Boo Boo sitting in like a little like sun chair with like sunglasses on like he's, it's

• 7:32Alex Cooper?

  It's just good vibes.

• 7:33Speaker 01

  It's, it is, it is good. I like, I only things that bring me joy. That's what I put on my desk, but I keep it very tidy. But then of course I have like three coasters on my desk for like, one for water, one for like a latte and one for a Diet Coke. And they always need to be like constantly filled.

• 7:48Alex Cooper?

  That's the rotation.

• 7:49Speaker 01

  Space for Cheetos, which is the worst possible food to eat when you write.

• 7:54Alex Cooper?

  You're like.

• 7:55Speaker 01

  I know. Are you like a puffy or a crunchy?

• 7:58Alex Cooper?

  I'm the flaming hot.

• 8:01Speaker 01

  I've never had one. I've never had one. I'm scared.

• 8:03Alex Cooper?

  I'm scary that I'm like, I like my husband's always like, why? And I'm like, I like it to burn.

• 8:09Speaker 01

  Do you like spicy things in general?

• 8:10Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, I do.

• 8:11Speaker 01

  Okay. But I've never had one. Now I kind of want to try one.

• 8:13Alex Cooper?

  You need to try one and you need to ask, tell me what it was like.

• 8:15Speaker 01

  But like, is it like?

• 8:17Alex Cooper?

  It's a little painful, but like I.

• 8:19Speaker 01

  They're not selling this.

• 8:20Alex Cooper?

  But it's like good. Like I like the burn. Like it keeps, I, when I'm editing my show, I'm like eating them. And I love the little thin ones and I just like kind of take it and I'm editing. It's a vibe. I also was curious, like when, if you do go out in public and you do ever see fans, like, what is the most common thing that people ask you when they run into you?

• 8:42Speaker 01

  Um, people usually don't like ask me things. It's more like they just want to express like what the books have meant to them. So usually that makes me cry. Um, but I'm also like such a nerd where like if I see someone in public reading my books, like I go up and say hi to them. Cause like, I want to say thank, I want to say thank you to them. Cause like, all these beautiful blessings I have in my life, the fact that I can like do this for a living is because of people reading. So like, how can I not at least just like go up and be like, I just want to say like, thank you. But then like, when I do that, like they, I think they don't believe me initially. Cause again, normal Sarah covered in cheeto dust. Like I look like unwell on a daily basis. So they're like, I don't think that's actually her. And then I'm like, no, it's me. Like, look, I've got the

• 9:25Alex Cooper?

  You're like a psycho being like, guys, thanks for reading my books. They're like, who is this?

• 9:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. And so like

• 9:29Alex Cooper?

  And they Google you and they're like, I think that was her.

• 9:31Speaker 01

  But then I feel like weird. Like sometimes like I'll like, if I see someone reading like, especially the Agatha books and like, I'll interrupt them. I'm like, what? Like, what part are you reading right now? Like, and is that like, is that like your mom like walking in on you? Like when you're like, watching porn or something? Or I'm like, is that like a weird thing? I've, no one's ever told me that. Like I've never like

• 9:49Alex Cooper?

  It is, I cannot imagine if I was reading and I looked up and it was you. I've

• 9:54Speaker 01

  Would it be weird for you if I was like

• 9:56Alex Cooper?

  It would make it 10 times better.

• 9:57Speaker 01

  If it was like a super smutty

• 9:59Alex Cooper?

  Wouldn't care because you wrote it. It makes me feel

• 10:01Speaker 01

  I know, but like, it wouldn't like be like weird for like

• 10:02Alex Cooper?

  No, I feel like I've walked into moments where someone was listening to one of my episodes that was like a more sexual one. And they're like, I'm listening to you right now. And I do the same thing where I'm like, which one? And then it's like a bonding moment. And it's between the girlies.

• 10:17Speaker 01

  Yes. Yeah.

• 10:18Alex Cooper?

  Okay. Um, there are obviously so many celebrities who absolutely love you and your books. Which celebrity fan has left you the most starstruck?

• 10:26Speaker 01

  I mean, I respect like so many of these like women especially. So like, like Margot Robbie's like become, she's become like Margot's become like one of my friends. And like, I love, so like meeting her, I was like, you know, she was coming off the heels of like Barbie when we first met. And I just like, it was amazing. When she and I like first met up, like we were at like a coffee shop in New York and it was just, it was really, really moving and inspiring to see how many young women came up to her, like not for a picture, not for anything, just to say, thank you for Barbie and what that meant to me. And like, I, I loved, and like, that's kind of like the fan interactions that I have are usually like people saying things like that. And so like, it was really cool to like, just like, I thought that was like the impact that Margot has had on like, whip, like she's just,

• 11:09Alex Cooper?

  I love her.

• 11:09Speaker 01

  When I like describe her to people, I'm like, she's as beautiful on the outside as she is on the inside and like so, so smart and like, it's an overwhelming combination, but she's a marvelous person.

• 11:18Alex Cooper?

  Speaking of Margot, um, people are obviously dying to know, what is going on with this potential Acotar TV series? Can you give us any update of like, what do you think is happening?

• 11:31Speaker 01

  So I have the rights back to everything now and getting the rights back to all my things has been a big part of my journey in recent years that like, maybe at some point soon I will like talk more about, but like, right now, my focus is on books and like, it's been a little while since like you guys have had something. So like, I'm focusing on like that, but like, I look at any TV movie adaptation as kind of like another facet of like the worlds that I've created. And it's something that I want to be in charge of, like I want to be figuring out, like I want to be learning everything that I can. I'm like a type A, like control freak a little bit, but

• 12:15Speaker 01

  like, I want to like, I want to know like everything about how it gets made, not because of that control, but just because I love movies, I love TV, like I want to like be a part of that and I want to see everything adapted the way I envision it and the way like I know fans want it. Um, and like, I don't ever want to hear like, oh, we need to change this to appeal to like XYZ's demographic. I'm like, no, that's not how you make art. That's not how I create my stories. So like, when I do it, like, it's going to be like,

• 12:44Alex Cooper?

  You're gonna do it.

• 12:44Speaker 01

  me and I will like dedicate like everything that I have to like making it right. But like, it will be like, I will be in there like, you know, looking at like all the design, but also So like, what does it sound like? Cause music plays such a big part like, so like, I'm not just gonna like, the music is gonna have to be like, a huge project.

• 13:01Alex Cooper?

  You'll have to have understandably your hands on every single part of it because it's in your brain. Like you created this world. So to give it over to anyone else would be.

• 13:11Speaker 01

  No, I view it as like my, my legacy in a way where I'm like, I put my books out into the world. That's like one way that the fans are like, interacting and seeing these characters, but like, the physical version of that like needs to be aligned. It can't just be like someone's take on that. I'm like, no, this is.

• 13:27Alex Cooper?

  It's, yeah, it's yours. Have you seen the fans who have created like the AI worlds of like the spring court?

• 13:35Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 13:36Alex Cooper?

  It's.

• 13:36Speaker 01

  No, I have not.

• 13:38Alex Cooper?

  I need to show you after, not, I, I.

• 13:41Speaker 01

  Is it cool?

• 13:41Alex Cooper?

  It is so incredible and I'll be on TikTok watching and I'm like, honestly, they made Reese and look like, I'm like, how are you gonna actually find a normal human being that looks like?

• 13:50Speaker 01

  I know, I know. I, I sometimes like, I, that's part of my problem.

• 13:53Alex Cooper?

  Casting.

• 13:54Speaker 01

  I don't, yeah. And that's, I'm not gonna like settle for someone because I'm like being pushed. I'm like, I need to find the perfect person and take however long it takes. To find them. I have yet to find my perfect Reese. Um, I don't really have like anyone in my, that's the thing. I have not found anyone. So I'm like, I can't like be forced to like,

• 14:11Alex Cooper?

  No.

• 14:11Speaker 01

  Pick someone.

• 14:12Alex Cooper?

  It's gonna, it's gonna happen when it's gonna happen.

• 14:13Speaker 01

  It needs to be organic. It needs to be like, something that comes from me.

• 14:18Alex Cooper?

  Yes.

• 14:18Speaker 01

  Um, and it's like something that I'm proud of, you know?

• 14:22Alex Cooper?

  Okay, let's go back because to anyone who isn't familiar with your full story. So your relationship with writing kind of started as a teenager. Um, but there was a moment in seventh grade where you stopped reading because it wasn't cool anymore. What was it that made you feel that way?

• 14:40Speaker 01

  Okay. First of all, we read the most boring fucking books. That like, and I was a big reader. Like, I loved reading as a kid. I loved fairy tales. I like, I loved all of that. Like, I like all the babysitters club, the boxcar children, but we weren't reading that in school. And like, yes, we were exposed to like, great writing, but it was so boring for me, to be like, quite honest, like, just at that age, that like, I was like, I'm done, I'm done with it.

• 15:09Alex Cooper?

  And what were you like in middle school?

• 15:11Speaker 01

  I was cool. I was a cool, I like, I've like, been through eras of my life. I'm turning forty, like, very soon, and I'm having like, a big girls' weekend, or it's actually more like, a week. I, I got a week out of everyone, um, in the Bahamas, and the theme is Sarah's eras. And

• 15:32Alex Cooper?

  Okay, can you take us through those eras?

• 15:34Speaker 01

  So this is because there have been so many versions of me. So middle school Sarah was like, all into like, nails, makeup, like, Backstreet Boys versus N'Sync versus Spice Girls. I was Spice Girls all the way, always, always. But then I kinda had like, this secret life in middle school where like, every day I would like, run home from school. Like, I would chat with my friends and then like, bolt down the streets of New York City to get home in time to watch Sailor Moon on, like, Cartoon Network every afternoon. And so like, Popular Girl was a like, anime freak, like, obsessed with like Sailor Moon, like, all this anime. And then like, around seventh grade, I also

• 16:17Speaker 01

  got into like, reading fantasy. Like, I figured out, like, okay, like, there are books that I do like to read that like, are like fairy tales and like, but for like, grownups in a way. So like, fantasy became a whole thing. So I was like, hanging out with my friends, going to the bar and bar mitzvahs, like, dirty dancing on the floor, and then like, going home and like, taping episodes of Sailor Moon on my VHS recorder.

• 16:40Alex Cooper?

  So it all kinda started in middle school, where you were like, interesting. I don't like the books in school, but I like these books that I found in this like, fantasy world. And you started to kinda have an appetite for it.

• 16:51Speaker 01

  Yes. And then like, around like, Around the same time, I realized like I didn't just want to read it like I wanted to write that kind of thing and come up with my own like adventures.

• 17:01Alex Cooper?

  Well, that's what's so crazy is when I was researching, I'm like, you started writing Throne of Glass at sixteen years old.

• 17:08Speaker 01

  Okay, so Throne of, so when I started writing Throne of Glass, I was in my emo Lord of the Rings phase, Sarah.

• 17:15Alex Cooper?

  Legolas.

• 17:16Speaker 01

  Um, I still have my cardboard cutout of Legolas and like Josh is weirdly threatened by him like he doesn't like to see him. Cause like, there's all these like stains around Legolas, Legolas's mouth from like where like I used to like make out with him. Like, I like.

• 17:30Alex Cooper?

  Sarah, this is iconic.

• 17:32Speaker 01

  It's the worst and the best thing. Cause I didn't go on a single date in high school. Legolas was my boyfriend. My, my seven year old, I told my seven year old son that once when he was younger and he literally believes me to the point where we were watching the Lord of the Rings once and he's like, hey, mom, look, it's your boyfriend.

• 17:48Alex Cooper?

  You're like, yeah, that is.

• 17:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I was like, I was like, I was like, I know. I was like, can you believe I left him for daddy? So sad. And he's like, oh, mom, to the point where like even now, like again, I don't really get starstruck, but like even now, if I saw Orlando Bloom, I would piss my pants, shit my pants, vomit on myself, like ovulate, like everything would happen all at once. I wouldn't like, I, I would cry. I don't know. Every bodily fluid would just come spraying out of me. I would not be okay.

• 18:20Alex Cooper?

  Okay. But this all makes sense though, Sarah. Cause like, I was so curious. I'm like sixteen years old. You start writing Throne of Glass and, and I read, I know that you like kind of trashed it eventually and rewrote the whole thing. But still to be sixteen years old and have the wherewithal to create such a large, incredible world in your head and be able to pen to paper. That is really incredible.

• 18:42Speaker 01

  Well, like, so middle school Sarah was like, cool. Had a lot of friends. High school, I went to a different high school.

• 18:47Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 18:47Speaker 01

  Where I had to start all over again. And like, high school Sarah didn't have many friends and like was not very happy. Hence the emo Sarah. Like, I mean, full on like studded belt, the like plastic bands, like, and like, I was that kid that like, had my headphones on, like in the hall of school, like, probably like, very like, just feeling like a fish out of water there. Cause like, I went to a very like posh Upper East Side high school and like, I was not like a lot of the other kids. And so with my books and stuff, like they. I knew I wanted to write. I got like the idea for Throne of Glass and I wanted to write

• 19:27Speaker 01

  that as an actual story, but then the timing of it was like just perfect where like I was in a place in my life where like I just needed like an escape from school and life sometimes and like closing my door to my bedroom and like turning on like my like was like one of those square iMac computers. Like I was like, I used like floppy disks for the first few drafts of Throne of Glass. Um, but like, that was like an escape for me. That was, it was like, if things weren't going well at school or like at home, or just like in general.

• 20:03Alex Cooper?

  But it's so beautiful too, to hear you say that like this was such a passion of yours. And then obviously you were able to turn that passion into your livelihood and your purpose. And then at 26, you finally publish and come out with Throne of Glass, almost 10 years after you came up with the idea, which I think like, it's like a really hard industry to get into, obviously, anything in publishing. It's like, it's close to impossible sometimes to get your first book published. Did any of your family or friends try to sway you and be like, Sarah, I don't know if this is the easiest path to go down for a career?

• 20:42Speaker 01

  Um, I got into a number of fights with my parents, who, I say this quite lovingly, but my parents are like New York lawyers. My mom was a judge. Like they're intellectual, again, lovingly, snobs that, you know, read the New York Times front to back every day, but like back, and my dad still insists on reading a physical newspaper. So my parents are, so my, I'm very different. Whereas like, I'm like, page six, baby. Like I'm like, tell me, tell me all the hot gas. Like I need to know everything. And so like my parents are like, oh, did you read this analysis of so and so? I'm like, no, but did you see what she was wearing last night? And they're like, what is

• 21:24Speaker 01

  this? But so I was always like this changeling, alien child who was like into the fantasy stuff. And my parents were great in that they always gave me an unlimited budget, like four books. They gave me the space to write. Like, you know, they let me just go lock myself in my room for hours and, and work. Um, but like, once like college was kind of like wrapping up, like, They're like, so what are you gonna do? And I'm like, I'm gonna be a writer. And they're like, well, most people, one, can't get a book deal. And like, my parents had friends who like, you know, were either like lawyers in the literary world or like literary agents. And they're like, it's impossible. Like, you're not gonna get it. Like, and fantasy wasn't even like, fantasy comes in cycles where like, sometimes it's huge and then it quiets down.

• 22:08Speaker 01

  So like, we were in like, a dystopia phase. Like, it was like, The Hunger Games was kind of like, starting to become like, insane around then. So my parents were like, like, you're publishing this, like, you wanna publish this epic fantasy thing, like, and who's paying for this? Where are you, and you wanna go move out with your boyfriend to Los Angeles? And get a car? And like, all like, you need to, so I actually considered like, doing like, an MFA thing just to like, buy myself more time. But I did like, I went to one, like, interview with like, a director of an MFA program. And when she heard that I write fantasy, she literally went like that. Like, an actual like, ah, sound. And you were like, bye? I was like, we're done here.

• 22:52Speaker 01

  I was like, I'll sign a copy of my book for you one day. Um, and I just, I walked out and I was like, I'm not doing that. I don't need anybody to teach me what I've taught myself. Like, I was a creative writing major in college, but like, it was, it was a very fun major to have, but it was useless for me because a lot of the classes were, or all the classes were geared towards writing short stories, poetry. And so like, senior thesis time came around and I was like, I was like, I wanna write a book, like, and I also like, want you to spend some time in our like, seminar, talking about like, how do you get published? Like, how do you get an agent? How do you get published? And like, it was like, It wasn't even a It was like, I was the first person who would ever ask that. And I was like, I don't wanna write short story. I tried to argue with my advisor that I didn't have to take poetry because I would never

• 23:37Speaker 01

  write a word of poetry in my life. I was like, I can swear to you here and now, I'm writing fantasy books. I was like, in the office, like, 21 years old. I was like, I am writing fantasy books and I will never fucking write a poem. So exempt me from this class. And he was like, no, you have to take it. You have to take it. And like, I'm terrible. It's, there's like, a mathematical component to poetry, like, the meter and the rhythm and all that stuff that like, Josh had to help, Josh was a math major and he had to help me with my homework, where you'd like, diagram out. And I was like, I don't understand.

• 24:15Alex Cooper?

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• 24:57Alex Cooper?

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• 25:41Alex Cooper?

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• 26:26Alex Cooper?

  directly alongside content. So as someone is scrolling, they just become part of their feed. Shopify truly makes it so much easier for customers to discover and buy products wherever they're browsing. And this has been such a game changer for Unwell. I love being able to sell merch directly on all the Call Her Daddy channels. So everything is in one place for the Daddy Gang. So, ready to add entrepreneur to your list of accomplishments? Head to Shopify.com/daddy. That's Shopify.com/daddy. We need to talk about these three series. So when I was talking to my friends about it, I think something that is quite literally the most mind blowing thing that you have been able to do,

• 27:10Alex Cooper?

  and a lot of people are so perplexed by how you've done it, is all of your series converge in some way or another. But that must take years of planning. So can you try to explain to me how you have been able to have the foresight that all three of these giant series somehow overlap?

• 27:32Speaker 01

  I mean, I don't actually know how I have the brain capacity for this because like, on a daily basis, I'm like barely functioning. But I don't, I mean, like because I started writing so young, I was able to like figure out these worlds, these characters. And when I was trying to get published initially, like I had a lot of downtime, like while like waiting for like agents to respond, publishers to respond. And like writing's the thing that I love the most. So like I was always writing. So like during that waiting time when I was trying to get Throne of Glass published, Acotar came out of me. The first two books of Acotar like poured out of me in 2008, 2009,

• 28:15Speaker 01

  like whenever, around then, like in like a two month span. The first book is very similar to what came out of me. I wound up rewriting Mist and Fury. The ultimate like direction of it was of course the same. But like I've been in Crescent City was like a passion project for many years that I would write, kind of to, this sounds cuckoo crazy, but like I would reach The end of a day, having like edited, like thrown a glass or at guitar and like I just was like done with those worlds and I wanted to go like play and like at the at the time like there was not as much cursing in like my earlier books. So I was like, I just want to write like fucking shit and damn it all the time. Like and like, and so Crescent City just started as something I didn't not have any intention of publishing it and it was just on the side. And then as I was writing that I was

• 29:00Speaker 01

  like, oh, and like, so I had all this time very early on in my career, even before my career really took off to like have a vision of what I wanted to do. Do you have like a map in your house to like, be like, okay, this world? No, it's all, all in my head. I mean, like I have notebooks where I write things down, but like the overarching like vision of it is all. I wish I could live in your head for a day. That is crazy. All you would hear is just Cheetos and Diet Coke on repeat. And all these worlds bouncing back and forth. Yeah, no, I mean, like it's, it's, it's like, it's very strange to have like all of that in your head. Cause like I, and it's almost like a separate thing where like I have like two kids now. So like on a daily basis,

• 29:43Speaker 01

  I'm like, okay, like what am I making them for dinner? That's not like boxed mac and cheese. Um, and then like I like switch between these modes where suddenly like I'll put be able to put that away when they're at school and then like the worlds expand again and I'm living in them. It's like a muscle you have to flex when you get to sit back down. Yeah. But then also like I sometimes like go back, especially with like the music that's inspired, like some, some of the scenes and like the books and just like, I will listen to the music that inspired those scenes and relive those scenes. And like sometimes just like cry or just like, just like, and I don't even read what's in there. I just like relive that moment of like where clarity, where I saw it. And so sometimes in reflecting and going back, I, I'm able to think like, you know, like that moment really struck, like struck me and like stood out to me. Like,

• 30:27Speaker 01

  how can we pull that through in the future? And then like, but then sometimes I'm thinking like books ahead, like I'll write like one little line and be like, like this will come back. Um, and like, but then sometimes things line up too, in like a really like cosmic psychic way where it, I mean, I, again, I have like crystals all over my desk. So I'm like, am I channeling like something that's happening in like the, like another universe? And I'm just like writing it down because it all lines up. Perfectly. Yes. Like sometimes where I like, there was something recently where like it lined up, like I had not planned it. But it was like my subconscious or like some like human wide psychic thing like I had tapped into it. It was like,

• 31:11Speaker 01

  you know, slow pitch over the the plate for me to still like it was there. It was it was there and I just and I I jumped out of my seat and like shut my computer and I was like, no, like we're done here. We're done. This is like too perfect. Like this is planned. This like I was like some this came from not me and I don't and I don't know. I'd say that from like an ego test. I just literally I'm like,

• 31:29Alex Cooper?

  This worked out so well.

• 31:30Speaker 01

  It was it worked out like almost to like a like supernatural level.

• 31:34Alex Cooper?

  This makes me so happy as a fan because I'm like, I was wondering, I'm like, how does this all go down? But now I want to talk about some of your female characters because I genuinely believe in the past, I do think that fantasy and I think everyone knows this, like fantasy and that world was more dominated by male authors, obviously. And then you came into the game and I think people really gravitate towards your work because of these really strong, independent, complex women that you are creating in these worlds. Um, one of your most beloved female characters in Throne of Glass is Aelyn. What did you want to communicate through her evolution?

• 32:15Speaker 01

  I don't Aelyn came out of me just and like there was no planned evolution. Aelyn, in some ways, her journey mirrored so much of me growing up, growing into like I poured a lot like she is not me in any way, but like there was a journey, like a mirror journey there. Um, and a lot of my books are like and and what my characters go through is in some ways like a mirror into things I've been going through, but like

• 32:47Speaker 01

  Aelyn from the start just came out of me fully formed, kind of like Athena springing from Zeus's head like that. And she just was there. And like I almost just let her lead the way and like my life like paralleled it where I could understand the it sounds like I had no control over her, but I really didn't. And I let her lead me where she needed to go, but also was able to like connect with her like. I don't know, like there were just like moments in my life where I can like look back at those scenes and throw in a glass and remember like what it was that inspired that scene and not, not like play by play events, but just like a feeling like in like the like the Assassin's Blade like novellas like

• 33:33Speaker 01

  there's like one of the later ones like she's like out all night like partying and like just like watches the sunrise and it's and I was like that was like me like in college like staying out with my friends like having an amazing time at a party and just like that feeling of like you're young and everything's beautiful and like you are immortal and like isn't it amazing to be alive and like here like that went into that and so like like those were the thing when I was able to connect with her in those moments like and so I don't know like and then like her rage and her like her anger I'm like I never got to see women being angry and

• 34:10Speaker 01

  bitchy the way I often felt like I always felt like everyone like had to be like sweet and nice and like I was not those things. I was not any of those things like I was always kind when I tried to be to people but like I had like strong feelings about things like I had like I could fly off the handle at something and I wanted to write about a woman that like didn't have to be appealing to anyone and that like I did not give a shit if anyone reading it liked her like this was her. Sorry, like that was who she was and like take it or leave it um better and like I wanted to let her make bad choices and learn from those choices and grow in the same way that like I also wanted her to have like different romantic relationships.

• 34:54Speaker 01

  Like I don't know like any of my anyone that like has just been like I met this one guy and like we're in love and now we're getting married and that's it like no like I wanted her to grow with that and take things away from those relationships and I don't know she just like I as I was learning all of that stuff growing up and like you know like she was too like so there was just a natural mirror.

• 35:16Alex Cooper?

  She was one of the first characters you ever wrote so it's like to know that there was a mirror there. It it makes sense. And I think it's beautiful that you were like, I literally don't care if anyone likes her or doesn't like this is who she is. Take her or leave her.

• 35:29Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, that was the same like Manon and throwing a glass like that was like an even more extreme version of it. I was like, she's just gonna go like with her nails and

• 35:36Alex Cooper?

  She's gonna do her thing.

• 35:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:37Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. You said, um, you're drawn to writing women who can't kind of be placed in a definable category, which I love. As a woman yourself in this industry, what box have you felt like people have tried to put you in?

• 35:52Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 35:54Alex Cooper?

  You're like, oh, sweetie, how much time do we have?

• 35:57Speaker 01

  I feel like I should have a sedative before I like completely explode. I just think in general, when a lot of people hear that I write romantic fantasy, you know, like as much as I love my like steamy, sexy, hot scenes, like this dismissal now of like smut, where I'm like, yeah, I write smut, like I love it, but like, that's not what like my fans come up to me to talk about like they like when they want to come thank me like it's like, yes, we giggle and laugh about like the hot scenes, whatever. But like they tell me how they left like their abusive husband after they read A Court of Mist and Fury. And like, we cry over that. And so like the putting me into this box of like, she just

• 36:38Speaker 01

  writes like really sexy stuff. I'm like, no, I love writing that stuff. I always be proud of it. Like, I mean, granted, like, I was like copy editing a scene in Silver Flames once where it was like when Nesta blows Cassian at like the dinner table and my dad was visiting and I was like, I had like the printed out pages and my dad was like, what are you working on there? And I was like, oh my God, I was like, nothing, we're done. I'm not editing this scene anymore. It was the worst fucking thing.

• 37:07Alex Cooper?

  You're like, dad, please don't read this.

• 37:09Speaker 01

  No. And like, he insists on it. I'm like, should I rip out pages for you? But then like the sex, but that's the thing where I'm like, the sex sometimes is tied to the plot, like Silver Flames, for example, like Nesta and Cassian, like they're having like hot sex and like bodily fluids are flying everywhere, but it is like intensely tied to their own emotional journeys and their own journey as a couple. And so like this dismissal of like, it's just like smut, like whatever. I'm like, it's fun. I designed it to be entertaining, but it's also moving. And like, I write like, what I consider to be like, cool shit that like means something to me.

• 37:43Alex Cooper?

  I love that you just clarified that too, because I do believe. It is such a double standard, obviously, with women that like, if you at all tap into sexuality or sex in any realm, everything else that you also are contributing in that category is completely dismissed because people are like, oh, you're just writing like sex shit. And you're like, wait, no, that's like, what? And, and so it's so frustrating, but I do believe in a, in a gorgeous way, like, if people took the time, that's also just a testament to people sometimes don't give a shit and they want to misunderstand you.

• 38:16Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 38:16Alex Cooper?

  If you take the time to understand these female characters that you're writing, yes, they have been so liberating for so many women. They have helped so many people. And it's been an escape for a lot of women, which you've done an incredible job with.

• 38:28Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I just, I mean, I think of it as, like, when I, when I want to reread books, like, I'm not going to like the depressing, boring shit. Like, I want to read books that make me happy, that have a happy end. And like, if you want to read, like, those other types of books, fine, like, good for you. But for me, like, I want things where, like, I go on a journey, like, I, like, and I, like, there's hot sex that I can, like, you know, dog ear those pages and, like, read all of that however many times I want. But then also, like, it brings me joy. And I find that there is a tendency for people to roll their eyes at things that bring joy and bring women joy especially. Um, and it pisses me the fuck off constantly.

• 39:13Speaker 01

  Um, and I get like, like you were saying, like, anytime,

• 39:18Speaker 01

  like, a woman, she writes something and there's like even a little hint of sex that's not like fade to black or like, you know, very like artistically mentioned. It's like, suddenly it devalues the work. And it doesn't matter what else is in that book. If there is some kind of like hot, graphically, and I'm like, I don't understand though, because you're writing a thing that is so accurate to life and sex is a part of life.

• 39:41Alex Cooper?

  I was gonna say, this is one of the, this is the commonality that all of us share in this world is we all have sex. We all deserve pleasure.

• 39:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:49Alex Cooper?

  And so if we continue to go down the path of women shouldn't write about these things or read about these things or talk about these things, then it really is still just a man's game. So.

• 39:57Speaker 01

  It's very like Victorian, almost where I'm like, okay, like, you're like getting into the nitty gritty of like, you know, what, like, you're like Midwestern alcohol alcoholic. I'm like, what about like the sex? What's going on with that? Like that, that is a key part of anyone's life. I'm like, you want to have a mirror, like an accurate mirror. And you don't have to have sex, but it's just the, this idea that like, Having it there, again, devalues the work. It's, I find it a little more than frustrating. Um, but then it's also like anything related to women like I, I get like watching like Lord of the Rings or like reading that like as a kid, like all these fantasy books, like with all these guys in them.

• 40:35Alex Cooper?

  There's like no women.

• 40:36Speaker 01

  Well, I would think like, okay, like if I was there, like me and Legolas are running through the Mercwood together. Um, because I totally marry Legolas in my mind.

• 40:46Alex Cooper?

  Obviously, Sarah. Obviously. I'll give you that one.

• 40:49Speaker 01

  Thank you. Thank you very much. That's my number one fantasy. Um, but like I'm going on an epic fantasy quest in my mind. Like I'm like in Mordor. I get my fucking period. What do I do? And like, I want to write about that shit. I'm like, it's like, I mean, it's not only like funny to me, but it's also like, this is a reality.

• 41:07Alex Cooper?

  This is our life.

• 41:08Speaker 01

  Like, I'm like, and so like in my books, I'm like, I want to write about things that like, you know, the sex, the like, you know,

• 41:15Alex Cooper?

  The real stuff.

• 41:16Speaker 01

  Like the real stuff where I'm like, what if you got your period when you were climbing the slopes of Mount Doom?

• 41:21Alex Cooper?

  What would you do?

• 41:22Speaker 01

  Like, are you free bleeding? Like, are you like, do you have cramps?

• 41:25Alex Cooper?

  Sarah J. Maas is getting the hard hitting facts, ladies and gentlemen.

• 41:27Speaker 01

  I just want to know. Maybe some people don't want to know those things, but I was like, I get such, I do such a deep dive into the worlds, into these characters that I'm thinking of like bathroom breaks. When was their last period? Like all of that.

• 41:40Alex Cooper?

  I think it's so obvious though, that although there, and we always hear the negatives, there's such clearly an appetite for what you've done. I also love how you talk about the real stuff. Because speaking of the real stuff, um, obviously, yes, your books are fiction, but like you are hitting very real, honest topics that you can kind of extract what you want to take from each. And I think there was a lot of online discourse around Feyre's pregnancy in A Court of Silver Flames. Because I think a lot of people were frustrated, right? That she didn't have control or understanding of what was happening to her body. Um, and her partner

• 42:22Alex Cooper?

  did, which we'll get to. But can you talk a little bit about why you chose to write her story that way?

• 42:32Speaker 01

  Love my children. I am fucking obsessed with my kids. I hated being pregnant. I hated it. It was traumatic for me every step of the way. Starting with like when I was first pregnant with my son and I was told by like this asshole of a nurse like, okay, this is your weight and you can only gain this much weight while you're pregnant. And like as someone who's had like a history with like disordered eating and stuff like being told like, you can, you're only allowed to gain between this month, like here and here. Like this is all you can gain during pregnancy. It took every bit of joy away.

• 43:11Speaker 01

  Where instead of focusing on this beautiful, beautiful baby growing inside of me, I was thinking about the food I was putting in my body. And then the constant tests and appointments where you're being like, literally like having like probes in you and like, you know, just like, it felt very, and like I, I'm like the person where like I have to make myself go to the gynecologist. Even though I love my gynecologist, I'm like, I, like, I, and I hate doctors. I hate waiting rooms. I hate all of that. I hate the interruption to my daily life. And so pregnancy was not fun. And then my son was born in an emergency C-section two weeks late. The people that I knew back then who had had kids were like, oh, like you don't want to take any of the drugs.

• 43:53Speaker 01

  Like you will like really hurt like the baby. And it's like the opposite. Like if you're a good mother, like you won't like, take the pain medication. And so I was like, I, I like, I came up with a birth plan. I had a doula. I had all this stuff planned out. And if, and if that works for you, like that's fine. But for me, that was my way of trying to like control it. And then that day, I'm like, they, I'm, I'm told, no, like I have to have every medical intervention possible. I have to have an emergency C-section. But like worse than that, like I went into the hospital. And I was told by the doctor who was going to like induce, she was first gonna induce me. She was like, go have a big meal because you're gonna be like, you know, pushing this baby out all night. So I get to the hospital after having like a big dinner to repair myself for labor. And then it turns out like I need to have an emergency C-section.

• 44:38Speaker 01

  But the doctor who is there is a man and he starts yelling at me saying, why would you eat anything? You can't eat anything. And I was like, your colleague literally told me to go have a big dinner and come here. I did not know I was having an emergency C-section. I'd never had surgery of any sort in my life before this point. So like for me, even to be in like a hospital gown in a hospital, like I'm terrified. Um, and then this male, this man I've never met before. And like, is telling me like, this is what we are doing and like you did everything wrong. And he's scolding me. So I'm already terrified. It's my first kid. I don't know what to expect. And so then they're like, okay, we're taking you back. And I was like, can my husband come back for like the epidural for all like, I'd never seen the inside of an operating room.

• 45:23Speaker 01

  And they were like, no. And I was like, can he please come back? I need someone there with me. I've never done this before. And they're like, he's not allowed in there. And so like, they wouldn't let him back. So I'm like, in the like, operating room, like, like, sitting on the table, waiting for this massive needle. And I'm shaking so violently with terror that like, and like, all the doctors there like ignored, like they did not give a shit. It was the intern, like the med school intern that like saw me like panic, like a girl. And she came over and like held my hand through it. And I was like, whoever you are, and like, I hope like, she, she probably has no idea that she helped me. Like that meant so much to me that day, that moment of kindness where I was like, a fellow young woman, like being like, this woman is terrified.

• 46:04Speaker 01

  And like, no one is being nice to her. And so then like the recovery from the C-section was horrible. The guy like sliced me way too high. He was lazy.

• 46:14Speaker 01

  I'm probably giving you like way too many details. No, you're not. This is like, this is the real shit. He sliced me in a way that was convenient to him, but essentially destroyed like the flow and look of my stomach where it never would heal right? To the point where we moved to a new state eventually and I got pregnant with my daughter and like I took me a while to even want to have a second kid. Because what I went through and the recovery from the C-section was so bad, it was not fun for me. Um, and like, I had to have this emergency C-section, one, like because like my son was two weeks late, but two, he started going into distress, but like he had not dropped. And it was the kind of thing where I sometimes think about this, like if I had been born like a hundred years before, I would have died.

• 46:58Speaker 01

  This, and so like that really stuck with me, the sense of like, I should be dead and my son should be dead. From this, and I hope he's listening to this, like not freaking out right now, but like, I should be like not here. And so like that kind of like has lingered where I'm like, without modern science and medicine, like I wouldn't be here. But then when I had my, my daughter, I, I had an amazing gynecologist here in LA, actually. Um, and she, in our first appointment, when we met each other, she took one look at what this man had done to me and she had to walk out of the room. And she, she was like, I never would have cut you like that. And she was so, she, she was shaking. She was so, she was like, this was unnecessary. He's like, well, why did he do it? She's like, because he was lazy.

• 47:42Speaker 01

  And he was an asshole. And so then she, and then when it came time to deliver my daughter and she had to like, she had to use the same line. And she was so mad that she had to like do this. Um, and like, so it just was like this very traumatic thing. And my body never felt like with a kid in me, like it never felt like my body anyway. Cause I'm like, there's an alien growing in me. This is weird. And like every time like they would move and I'd like see them, I'd like, I, I was not like, oh, I was like, get it out. Like what is this? And so then like to lose complete control, like a lot, like just. I did not have like easy pregnancies and births. And so like Feyre and all of that, like just was my own way of processing my shit.

• 48:28Speaker 01

  And like, again, like, it's not like I didn't die. I wasn't like dead like Feyre was, but like, like the fear, like Reese's fear even that probably came from my fear and thinking about having another kid and like, just like all of that. That's what, and that's the way where like the things I go through in life feed into my books where like, it wasn't a play by play of my pregnancy. And like, obviously my kids don't have wings that are getting stuck in the birth canal, but like, the fear, the trauma, like, all of that, like, the writing that book allowed me to get it out of my system, you know why, and process it.

• 49:08Alex Cooper?

  Thank you for sharing that because obviously I, I've read the book and, and this gives so much more color to like, the why. And, and it just made me think too, like, we don't talk about how it is very risky.

• 49:25Speaker 01

  Yeah. And there's like a constant, like they're constantly doing tests, like every ultrasound is terrifying because you want to make sure is everything okay? Is there a heartbeat even? And you're like, and so there's all, there's, there's joy in it, but there's fear constantly, like constantly built into the stages of pregnancy. And like, and maybe some women do just have pure joy, but I found it to be very stressful, very scary. I just was constantly like worrying that something would go wrong. I mean, when I was pregnant with my daughter, I actually like broke my ankle and fell down the stairs. Um, yeah, I like took one step and like my ankle just like crunched and then I fell down the stairs because my ankle like gave way and I was like pretty heavily pregnant. I had to be like rushed to the hospital and like they'd like check that

• 50:10Speaker 01

  the baby was okay. And then like I was, yeah. And it just was like a level of like freak out where everyone's like, oh my God, like the worst possible thing could happen and it's happened. Like, it was intense. It was.

• 50:19Alex Cooper?

  Were you nervous at all about the feedback of writing this into Feyre's?

• 50:26Speaker 01

  No, I mean, like, the thing is, is like, again, with like the sex and the periods, I'm like, motherhood is a thing that so many women experience for better or worse. And it was something that I wanted to write about where I didn't want, like, But Farrah's journey shouldn't just end where it's like she's happily ever after and she's punching out kids. I'm like, no, like, there's like a story to be told there. There are things that like will play out from that. And like, motherhood doesn't need to be like glossed over. It doesn't need to be something that's like seen as weak. Like, someone being in a loving relationship with a person and choosing to bring a new life into this world and to share their world and open up

• 51:08Speaker 01

  their hearts to someone. That's a beautiful thing. Like, however you make a family, like, that is a beautiful, wonderful thing, and it is not a weakness. And like, I have become a stronger person because I'm a mother. Like, I learned how to stand up for myself, becoming a mom, more than I ever did before I had kids. And I realize, like, I, who I am now, not just being a mom, but the things I have learned as a mom, like, I really, like, they're like the biggest badasses in the world. And like, I have learned more from being a mom than I ever did. And I think that's a strength and a wisdom that like, should be shared.

• 51:45Alex Cooper?

  It is. And like, beautiful that you did. I also remember, and I don't know if you can say if it was related to that, but you've said before that you were going through some mental health struggles while writing A Court of Silver Flames. And in the book, obviously, we see Nesta working through some of her trauma and trying to overcome it. Like, in what ways did your life at the time mirror or influence each other in that writing process?

• 52:14Speaker 01

  All of my books kind of have mirrored my own mental, mental health journey, even before I realized I had issues. Like, a lot of what, like, Ailin went through and like, Aera Fire, all of that, like, that was like drawn from like, very broken places in me. Mist and Fury, that came out of me, and I didn't even realize like, what that meant about me. But Silver Flames was really the first time when I understood the connection. And I, around-

• 52:49Speaker 01

  Twenty eighteen. I mean, it was the year my son was born. I had three books published. I I was requested to come back from my maternity leave like a couple of weeks later to do like copy edits, like page, like, like, I just like reviewing stuff and like, so like, I literally like the stuff I sent in was splattered with breast milk because I was like pumping and pumping like while I'm like editing pages. It was a lot and like there was a lot and it was like

• 53:21Speaker 01

  like Kingdom of Ash was coming out that year and like I just kept like refining things and tweaking things and it's about to go to the printer and I'm told like it's too long. The book is too long by a couple of pages. It has to go to print in like two days. We need to find like five pages to cut.

• 53:39Speaker 01

  And like not just like, like, see, like, like, so I went through this book, again, pumping hormonal, recovering from a C-section, frantic to find, like to move text or like literally not just like cutting words, but like being like this line, like you could like bump this word up here, like all like 1,000 pages in a frenzy. I finish it and then I get an email. Oh yeah, we found this space anyway. It's okay.

• 54:04Speaker 01

  And so like, it was just like, there was a lot going on. And so like, that was the year that I started to have these like panic attacks where I had this overwhelming sense that something awful was going to happen. That it was all going to go away and implode and that like it and it got like I would, I would, I had a panic attack that lasted for like two, three days out of the, I'd never had one before. And then they just started happening like more and more frequently until like I got to like the fall of like 2019 and I reached like such a dark place that like I scared myself and I realized like I needed to talk to someone. I needed

• 54:45Speaker 01

  therapy. Um, like it was a very like, I'm feeling like I'm gonna cry talking about it. It was a very, very

• 54:54Speaker 01

  low moment.

• 54:58Speaker 01

  And going to therapy wound up being the thing that saved my life. It saved my life.

• 55:08Speaker 01

  And I went because I looked at my son, sorry, and I just was like, I want to be here. This is what I'm fighting for. I don't want to feel this way. The thing that I love the most, writing, has become terrifying to me. Like, I need to not be sorry, in this, in this hole. And so I started going to therapy. I got put on medication. We figured it out. It was rough, but out of that, as I was doing that, that's when I started writing Silver Flames. And so what Nesta feels in that book, I wrote that as I was going through therapy.

• 55:52Speaker 01

  And so like, I've like never cried talking, I feel very emotional talking about this, but her, I remember like the exact moment when I like came up with the idea for this scene where she and Cassian are taking that hike and she just breaks down and like that was me in New Zealand with Josh at my lowest on a hike, thinking the same thing and just like, and as I was on this hike, I started crying and then I saw Nesta and I saw this scene. And so like that came out, I took notes, I wrote down that scene, like that all came out of me. Um, and so where she gets like at the end, like she's not perfect, she's not healed, she's still a work in progress, but like I,

• 56:33Speaker 01

  she was in a hole, I was in a hole and like we dug our way out of it together. And like the friends that I like made during that, like it's like the friendship she made, where like the love that you have with like your romantic partner is one thing, but then like finding like girlfriends that like get you and like, don't judge you, like that is another thing. And like, that was a gift that I was given to that like, and so you just. I just basically wrote what needed to come out of me as I was going through all of it. And so that book has a very, very special place in my heart, but now I'm able to look back at like Mist and Fury and like Aelyn's journey in Thorn of Glass and realize like, oh yes, like I did

• 57:16Speaker 01

  actually suffer from a lot of these things for many, many years. And I had coping mechanisms in place that were very effective until they weren't anymore.

• 57:25Alex Cooper?

  Can you share a little bit with Mist and Fury, like what you were going through?

• 57:30Speaker 01

  I mean, Feyre's sense of panic, like those panic attacks that she had, where she's describing walls coming in and like, all of that came from feelings that I have, or I didn't even know I was having panic attacks that raised the acid in the blood feeling, reactions to things like just like these ups and downs, like all of that. And like I drew on my own like emotional feelings, but I had no idea until I was able to reflect in therapy. Like, oh, like, so like, high school, like, yeah, like, of course, that's why I felt the way I did. Like, my anxiety around like tests and all of that and like having to like perform like so many, like I've uncovered so many things

• 58:13Speaker 01

  about myself, but that now make like looking back on my books. I'm like, oh, this is really interesting because like this was the shit that I was going through without even realizing I was going through that. But

• 58:24Alex Cooper?

  Sarah, like it's so real hearing you speak about this because you sharing your birth journey. And as a woman sitting across from you, I, when you were like, oh my God, I hope this isn't too much detail. I was like, no, no, no, keep going. Because I think all of us are sitting here being like, yes, we've experienced it. We've all gone to whether it's a gynecologist and it's been uncomfortable or a doctor. And these are real things that kind of are like hush, hush, and you don't talk about all the way from that traumatic experience. And then having your child. You having this moment where the thing that you loved the most of like wanting to have a child and also writing and all of it kind of closing in and not going the way you wanted it to and everyone's like yelling at you to get these things done, what used to be such

• 59:07Alex Cooper?

  a fun time in your life to just write because it was in your brain. Now it's like it's a deadline, let's go.

• 59:11Speaker 01

  It's a job.

• 59:12Alex Cooper?

  It's a job. And so you started to put too much pressure on yourself because understandably, this thing has gotten so massive.

• 59:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:19Alex Cooper?

  And unfortunately, as humans, sometimes we literally need the breaking point to slow us down to be like, something has to change. I can't live like this forever.

• 59:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. And just like realizing that like I do have a value as a person beyond my books and like my, the love that like the people around me feel for me is not tied to my success. And like, and accepting that like, whatever happens, like that doesn't take away from me and like the blessings that I have in my life, not in terms of like the material things, but like my children, my husband, my friends, like those are all the things that like nothing can take that away from me. And that's what I like, I learned to separate it in a very healthy way where now like it is like a job for me now, but it's something that I can approach with joy and like confidence where I'm not operating

• 1:00:14Speaker 01

  from a place of fear, which is what started to happen before I had these like massive panic attacks.

• 1:00:20Alex Cooper?

  That is so relatable and I have also experienced that in my life. So I'm like very in simpatico with you right now. Cause and I think a lot of people can relate to that of having a feeling in your life where you get something you've always wanted. But then the fear of losing it, it starts to take over your entire body.

• 1:00:41Speaker 01

  It eats away at you.

• 1:00:42Alex Cooper?

  And you feel like as big as it keeps getting, you almost, you don't have time to stop and process it and enjoy it. And it's like, all of a sudden your greatest like happiness that was this passion thing becomes this nightmare.

• 1:00:55Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:00:56Alex Cooper?

  That only you can kind of re-regulate and be like, if all this goes away tomorrow, I'm still me. I have my husband. I have my family and it doesn't have to go away tomorrow, but I have to believe that if I need to know, I would be okay if it didn't.

• 1:01:09Speaker 01

  Yes. My therapist made me go through a scenario. She's like, okay, it's all done. What are you doing? And like she made me walk through it. She's like, what do you do? She's like, what's your priority? I'm like, well, I need to make sure that my kids have how like, we went through every worst case scenario. And she had me figure my way out through it until I realized like, I am, I am, I will survive. I am like strong. I am like able to adapt and pivot if I need to. And like, so like knowing that that gave me a freedom to be like, yeah, okay, I'll do the thing that I want to do. Like worst case scenario, I'll be like a florist slash like DJ slash like amateur marine biologist. Like I wanted to be like as a kid. Uh, did you want to, okay, when I was in middle-

• 1:01:53Alex Cooper?

  Florist, DJ, marine biologist?

• 1:01:56Speaker 01

  Okay, like when I was in middle school-

• 1:01:57Alex Cooper?

  Sarah J Maas, what?

• 1:01:59Speaker 01

  When I was in middle school, I had this like, I loved shark. I still love sharks.

• 1:02:05Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 1:02:05Speaker 01

  I wanted to be a marine biologist as well as a writer. But like I, I had this dream of like living like on the beach and like the Caribbean, like sleeping in a hammock at night. And then like going out in the morning with like my spear fishing gun and catching my like lobster for breakfast. And then I go out and study sharks all day. And like, that was the life I was gonna lead.

• 1:02:23Alex Cooper?

  So you're like, I could tap back into that, guys.

• 1:02:24Speaker 01

  And I would, I'll go back to, I nearly flunked every science and math course, which is why I did not become a marine biologist, freshman bio. I was like just on the verge of an F the entire year.

• 1:02:36Alex Cooper?

  It's good to know though. Like if all this goes away, we know where to look for you.

• 1:02:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, find me on the open seas.

• 1:02:51Alex Cooper?

  Call her daddy is brought to you by Airbnb. Okay, I am well into my third trimester now, so I haven't really been able to travel because I need to stay close to my doctor. But spending all this time at home has made me start thinking about all the places that I want to go. Once the baby is here, I have literally been sitting on my couch with the TV on, scrolling through Airbnb and planning trips. I am nowhere ready to take yet, but suddenly my vacation priorities, I will say, are completely different. Like, does the house have enough bedrooms? Is there a big kitchen? Does the furniture look baby safe? Or is every table covered in, you know, sharp corners? And obviously we need an extra room for my mom,

• 1:03:34Alex Cooper?

  who has already made it very clear that she will not be leaving my side. She's like, I got you. I'm the babysitter, okay? And now that it is October. I'm picturing cooler weather, cozy sweaters. Oh my God, maybe a little cottage where we can escape for a little weekend. That's what I love about booking a home on Airbnb. Whether you're traveling with family, friends, or your partner, everyone has space to relax while still being together. Even if you're traveling for a concert or a game, you have one place where everyone can get together and convene after. Before the holiday season gets busy, treat yourself to one more fall getaway and check out Airbnb while you're planning it. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Southern New Hampshire University. Daddy gang, let's get real, okay?

• 1:04:19Alex Cooper?

  We like to make our own rules. Southern New Hampshire University gets it. They let you learn what you want with over 200 career-focused programs, where you want with 100% online courses, and how you want with no set class times. Basically, you get to call the shots from day one. Visit s n h u dot edu slash call her daddy to learn more. This is a paid ad by BetterHelp. So anytime that I am finding myself having a habit that I just cannot kick, I'm like, okay, I need to talk about this in therapy. Listen, guys, everyone has habits, mindsets, or patterns that don't serve them. But recognizing what they are and learning how to let them go can be so important. It's literally the first step towards creating meaningful change.

• 1:05:03Alex Cooper?

  And therapy with BetterHelp, one of the leading online therapy platforms, can be a space to explore where those patterns come from and develop healthier habits and mindsets for a more fulfilling life. With over 30,000 therapists worldwide, BetterHelp has served millions of people globally. BetterHelp makes it easier to fit therapy into your routine with flexible ways to connect that work for different schedules and lifestyles. Plus, BetterHelp therapists have at least three years and 1,000 hours on-hand experience and hold all required education, training, and certifications. You can meet with a range of professionals from marriage and family therapists to social workers and counselors. So Daddy Gang, if you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try.

• 1:05:48Alex Cooper?

  Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com/daddy. That's better h e l p dot com slash daddy. I love that we also just hit on like, F the whole system of like, oh my God, she's just talking about sex and we just went through all this really intense fucking shit. And now we can talk about the sex in a fun way because that is not just what it is, but it's a huge major point.

• 1:06:14Speaker 01

  Oh, my parents, I'm not even telling them about this interview.

• 1:06:16Alex Cooper?

  Okay, don't even tell them.

• 1:06:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, don't tell mom and dad.

• 1:06:18Alex Cooper?

  Don't tell mom and dad. They're never gonna watch this. They won't even know.

• 1:06:21Speaker 01

  No, they don't know how to use an iPad. My dad's reading the paper newspaper still.

• 1:06:25Alex Cooper?

  This won't be in the newspaper.

• 1:06:26Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:06:26Alex Cooper?

  Hopefully. Oh, God.

• 1:06:27Speaker 01

  Maybe it'll get really good.

• 1:06:29Alex Cooper?

  Okay, I was thinking about it. You talked about how like you love to write about the push and pull in relationships romantically, which like, obviously, we all love it. But what first you specifically really makes you tick about that type of dynamic?

• 1:06:44Speaker 01

  I just like, if I'm like, does that kind of turn me on? Yeah, okay, then I'm gonna fucking write it. And like, that dynamic, like, the characters have to like, have that spark initially. It's almost beyond me. Where like, if they don't, like, and sometimes like, two characters will like, get together and there's like, something there that I didn't even like, plan. I'm like, okay, like, we're gonna go with that. And I like the way like, that makes me feel. And like, there's something there that I can't put my finger on, but there is like, a chemistry.

• 1:07:12Alex Cooper?

  Give me an example.

• 1:07:14Speaker 01

  I mean, when I was first writing Acotar, a million bajillion years ago, those initial few weeks, I was just going by like, like, headlights style. Like, I would only write as far as I could just like, see, like, you know, like, down the road. And so, Feyre, I just was writing as it came to me. Like, I did not plan that book. It just poured out of me. So like, I didn't know what was gonna happen. I didn't plan it out beforehand. So Feyre, like, there's a beast. And I'm like, oh, this guy is like, hot. And like, she gets to his, like, house. And I'm like, oh, he's sexy. And then like, we get to like, we get to the night when Reese shows up. And then I'm like, oh, no. Oh, no. Like, it's not this guy. It's this guy. And then like, and so like, that was like, so like, that initial seed. Like, I was like,

• 1:07:58Speaker 01

  this is a sweet little romance with like, like, Beauty and the Beast with like Feyre and Tamlin. And then like, Paige, whatever. It's like Reese walks on. And like, I did not plan him. He walked into that scene ahead of time. I was like, I got like, writing this in real time, not planning it. I had nothing to do. I didn't have a job at that time. So I just was like, writing, like, whatever came out of me that day. And so like, I-

• 1:08:19Alex Cooper?

  One of the most epic scenes. You're like, it just happened in my brain.

• 1:08:22Speaker 01

  Literally, I was just writing this scene where like I had planned for there to be like, you know, like sexy, like bonfires, all of that. And then like through the smoke, all of a sudden

• 1:08:29Alex Cooper?

  Here he comes.

• 1:08:30Speaker 01

  This guy comes and I'm like, who the fuck is this? And then like, he's there and I'm like, oh no, like this is what we're doing. So it's like that kind of thing where I'm like, like, and that's just like, I saw it and like, felt it all like, but then like, of course, like, it was so funny when like the first Acotar came out and people were like, I love Tamlin so much. I got a tattoo of him and like knowing what like was going to happen. I was like, I was like, I'm so happy.

• 1:08:55Alex Cooper?

  Like, I'm so happy for you. Also, I'm so sorry.

• 1:08:58Speaker 01

  I will give you, I will pay for the tattoo laser removal in like a year.

• 1:09:03Alex Cooper?

  Well, no, it was such a mindfuck because I also was falling in love with Tamlin and then I was like, what is happening?

• 1:09:08Speaker 01

  But I wanted it to be like, like, you know, like when you fall in love with a guy and then you realize like, he's not the one for you. And like, he's got a lot of fucking issues.

• 1:09:14Alex Cooper?

  Yes. Across your books, if you had to say right now, today, which couple is your current favorite?

• 1:09:20Speaker 01

  Oh my God. I don't know. That's really, really hard and depends on my mood. I don't know. That's impo- I don't like that. I can't, I can't, I love them all. Again, like, I have to feel it and like feel that like sexiness and like, like, and I have to be like obsessed with them.

• 1:09:40Alex Cooper?

  Okay. Fuck, marry, kill, re-sand, hunt, rowan.

• 1:09:45Speaker 01

  Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. I'm like trying to think of like the realities of my own marriage and like what has worked and what doesn't work. I'm like, which one of them farts the least? That's the one I want to marry.

• 1:10:00Alex Cooper?

  Perfect.

• 1:10:00Speaker 01

  Cause I live with that reality.

• 1:10:02Alex Cooper?

  Well, you know, you know, you wrote these people.

• 1:10:04Speaker 01

  I don't know. This is hard. I mean, like, I kind of like, want to fuck all of them. I mean, to be quite honest, and marry all of them. I don't want to kill any of them. I

• 1:10:14Alex Cooper?

  You'll fuck them all.

• 1:10:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'll just.

• 1:10:16Alex Cooper?

  Honestly, you make the rules today, Sarah.

• 1:10:18Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:10:18Alex Cooper?

  You want to fuck them all.

• 1:10:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:20Alex Cooper?

  I'm fine.

• 1:10:20Speaker 01

  My parents aren't listening to this. Yeah, let's, I'll fuck.

• 1:10:22Alex Cooper?

  They have no idea.

• 1:10:23Speaker 01

  My, my son is listening.

• 1:10:24Alex Cooper?

  Your son and your husband are in the other room, but that's fine.

• 1:10:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, no, I hope they cover his ears. Yeah.

• 1:10:28Alex Cooper?

  Isn't it true that you, like, part of your process is you sit and ponder how sexy the character's potential name is before officially giving it to them?

• 1:10:36Speaker 01

  Oh yeah. Again, like, I am.

• 1:10:41Speaker 01

  Like I will always be like a Legolas fangirl and part of that's like his name. And like, like, what if he was named like, I mean, no offense to anyone, but like Frank, right?

• 1:10:50Alex Cooper?

  You're like Frank, right? Like, I'm not getting off to Frank.

• 1:10:53Speaker 01

  The elf warrior prince?

• 1:10:55Alex Cooper?

  We, are there any names that almost made the cut in your series, but didn't that you could share?

• 1:11:04Speaker 01

  I mean, nothing like, yeah, nothing. I don't think I've like named like, I, I, every like, I've used up like all my hot, but like usually like, if like someone's attractive, I'm like, okay, let's find the hottest name. And then I'll like go through like baby name websites. And I'm like sexy Celtic warrior god with abs of steel. What name is that?

• 1:11:24Alex Cooper?

  I wish I could see your Google searches.

• 1:11:26Speaker 01

  It would be sad. It would be like, what time's the next La Boo Boo drop? And then like, show me abs.

• 1:11:35Alex Cooper?

  And what are good names?

• 1:11:37Speaker 01

  And what are hot baby names? Sexy, sexy baby names, which I'm sure is a very strange thing to.

• 1:11:44Alex Cooper?

  I was so messed up from it because when I was reading it at first, I was in my own world and I really thought his name was Ry Sand. And then I thought, you're like, oh, you idiot. And then I.

• 1:11:54Speaker 01

  Sarah. No, I allow any and all pronunciations.

• 1:11:59Alex Cooper?

  You do?

• 1:12:00Speaker 01

  It's a safe space. I, I am not going to, I, I am a reader first and foremost.

• 1:12:05Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 1:12:05Speaker 01

  So I understand.

• 1:12:06Alex Cooper?

  Well, because when you shorten it to rise, it looks like rise instead of Reese. And then I remember going on Tik Tok and I was like, oh my God, I'm an idiot. And so then I had to like retrain my brain, which is fine. And Feyre, I forget.

• 1:12:17Speaker 01

  Feyre is not a natural one. Reese is an actual like name in this world.

• 1:12:21Alex Cooper?

  Wouldn't it be R E E?

• 1:12:23Speaker 01

  Well, it can be spelled like that, but there's, isn't there like a Phillies player?

• 1:12:27Alex Cooper?

  You're right.

• 1:12:28Speaker 01

  Reese, Reese.

• 1:12:29Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:12:30Speaker 01

  Whatever. I don't know. His, it's not like Feyre is a made up name. That one.

• 1:12:35Alex Cooper?

  How did you come up with that?

• 1:12:36Speaker 01

  I don't know. That was just like, I was like, I was like, what sounds cool? Feyre. Done.

• 1:12:42Alex Cooper?

  Done, put her in.

• 1:12:43Speaker 01

  We're done.

• 1:12:43Alex Cooper?

  Um, okay. We need to quickly talk about the Tamlin and Reesand thing because it is a big conversation that I think people are gonna kill me if I don't ask about.

• 1:12:52Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:12:52Alex Cooper?

  Obviously, throughout the Acotar books, we saw Tamlin like trying to justify his controlling tendencies by saying things like, oh, my gosh, I'm just doing it to protect Feyre. Um, then he locks her in the manor, which was infuriating and wild. What were you hoping for readers to understand about their relationship as that slowly started to progress? Because you're right, you made us all fall in love with him and get tattoos about him and then, and then.

• 1:13:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. And you know what? I think like, people change in relationships and what Feyre and, to be fair, Tamlin went through under the mountain fucked them both up majorly. And Tamlin is someone that, you know, we haven't delved too deeply into this, but it's been put in the books. Like, he had a fucked up family. He did not have any systems in place to cope with that. But he also is a guy who's been like in charge and powerful for a long time. And then like, someone's like, like, he doesn't know, he doesn't have the emotional toolkit to handle this. And he implodes and he drags her down with him. Um, and that

• 1:14:02Speaker 01

  was just like, I, it just felt natural to me. Like, it just felt like a natural thing where like, I knew who Tamlin was as a person, knew like, that this is how he would react. And this like, shows who he is. And it's like, Reese responds to the trauma in a different way, in the way that Feyre needs and connects with. Tamlin can't handle that trauma. And it's, you know, he made his own choices, but he's also the result of his upbringing. So there's an element of like, me that I pity him, you know, in the same way I'd pity like, anyone who's like endured like, an abusive family trauma, all of that. Like, he, like, he's been through it and he doesn't know how to cope with it. And like, he does

• 1:14:46Speaker 01

  shitty things because of it. And I'm not like, excusing those shitty things. Because like, that is why. Feyre moved on. Um, but I wanted Feyre to like, realize like, there are different ways to face the shit that you go through and that's what defines you.

• 1:15:01Alex Cooper?

  The wedding scene?

• 1:15:02Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:15:03Alex Cooper?

  I loved it so much because I thought it was actually such, again, such an accurate representation of a woman before those doors open.

• 1:15:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:11Alex Cooper?

  And you see so many women who talk about, I kind of knew before I went down the aisle. So why did I do it?

• 1:15:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:17Alex Cooper?

  And you slowed it down so perfectly.

• 1:15:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:20Alex Cooper?

  That it was this like horrifying, amazing moment that it was just, it was amazing. Um, do you think Tamlin will ever have a full redemption arc?

• 1:15:31Speaker 01

  I don't know. It's tricky because I've had so many women, especially including some like very dear friends of mine who've like come up and told me about like how they saw their own abusive relationship mirrored in Tamlin. And so if I were to ever write

• 1:15:51Speaker 01

  ta- like more about Tamlin, it would be done in a way where like it doesn't erase what he has done. It, and it doesn't like invalidate the feelings of like my readers who have connected to that. Like I would, like, it would have to be done in a way that was genuine to him and to reality, but also like well aware of like what he means for like different types of people and different experiences and to honor and respect them for that. And like, I don't usually like let those things dictate what I write, but it's something like one of my very best friends is like a survivor of domestic abuse. And like, you know, she often refers to her ex as Tamlin.

• 1:16:34Speaker 01

  And like, I've actually talked to her about it. Like, how would you feel like, you know, like, like if just like me as the create, like separating us as friends, like, would that feel like a betrayal to you? Um, and so like, we've had like interesting conversations about it, but it's something I'd really want to think about. And I've given myself like,

• 1:16:53Speaker 01

  Several options, um, cause it's something that's probably like the hardest thing for me to figure like, to be quite honest, like that's tricky for me. It's tricky for me also just emotionally, cause like part of me wants to be like, that fucker can burn in hell forever. But like as a writer, I'm like, but like, what is the story there? Like what, what is like, and like not to excuse him for any of it, but just explore it.

• 1:17:15Alex Cooper?

  I love hearing your thought process though, cause again, it's like this world and then pulling out of it, like they are such like real themes. And then also hearing the dynamic, like I'm curious, how did you, obviously Reese is the highest Faye in existence. And so how

• 1:17:31Speaker 01

  Highest or hottest?

• 1:17:32Alex Cooper?

  Both.

• 1:17:35Alex Cooper?

  Both, both Sarah. How did you decide like how Faye was going to maintain her autonomy? In that type of relationship?

• 1:17:47Speaker 01

  I mean, that should be just like a given thing in any relationship, regardless of like who has power and what and like, I don't know, I'm not attracted to fucking assholes. Like my husband and I have been together actually since I was 18, for all my like crapping on like, you know, like people should have multiple romantic partners. My husband was like my first and only boyfriend. Um, yeah, but like he, we are equals, we are partners in this and like, I don't like, I think I just demand that like the females in my books like have those relationships of like respect and like partnership, just like, cause that's what I demand like of myself and what I expect of myself. And like, that's what I have, that's the gift that I've been given.

• 1:18:32Speaker 01

  Is someone that like respects me and like honors me and like loves me and like the power dynamic thing, I'm like, you know, like, I don't know, it's kind of like, I think it's like really kind of hot that like the super powerful dude like wants to get on his knees in front of this late, like, like she is in control of him 100%. Um, but even that, but she doesn't want control over him. She wants a partner. Like she doesn't want like, you know, like they do have like a push pull of like sexy, like who's in charge of what, but like they, they ultimately like, they want a lover who is also like a best friend that like they can be equal and speak to on an honest level.

• 1:19:10Alex Cooper?

  I think the fans perception of Reese and was really tested when he didn't clearly communicate the risks of what could happen in this pregnancy to her. What is your take on that?

• 1:19:22Speaker 01

  I mean, Reese is entitled to like go through his own shit and make his own mistakes. And should he have told Feyre? Yes, but he was absolutely terrified, like faced with like, like, I don't know, like, I just tried to decide, like, Reese in that choice, like, he made a bad choice, I think, like, it was not that, like, Feyre was obviously upset, like, Nesta thought it was fucked up. Um, and like, he, I love Reese, smoking hot, like, I love who he is beyond that, but like, I think it's much more interesting for me as a writer

• 1:20:01Speaker 01

  to have him make perhaps a bad call and do it from a place of love and then like be able to reflect later, being like, maybe I did like the thing here that like, the ex-boyfriend like also kind of did and like, that's not okay. And like, what do I learn from it? Like, yeah, he's like 500 years old, but he's still learning.

• 1:20:21Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:21Speaker 01

  Like, he's never like been like, he's never been a mate, husband, he's never had a pregnant mate, he's frantic. Like, he finds out she's been given a death sentence, but she's full of joy about it. And how do you be that person that takes the joy away? Like, how, how, like, and Feyre would have wanted to know, but I can understand why Reese didn't want to tell her because there was just, like, he was so desperate to find a, like, why stress her out until like, like, he was desperate for a solution and like,

• 1:20:53Alex Cooper?

  No, and you're right. It's so much more interesting to read from that perspective instead of like, oh, then I tell her and everything like,

• 1:20:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, like, they need to have like issue, like, they're, it's true love, they're mates, but like, they will, like, they do have issues that they need to sort out. They have, they've come from very different backgrounds. They're still figuring out the dynamic. They're both navigating a whole new scenario and like, they can make mistakes. Both of them can make mistakes.

• 1:21:16Alex Cooper?

  What do you think was the most romantic moment you wrote between Reese and Feyre?

• 1:21:21Speaker 01

  Starfall, I think when like, she gets like, they get splattered with like the glitter or whatever, like, I don't know, there's something about that. That scene always stands out for me. I love, like, I still hear like, um,

• 1:21:35Speaker 01

  Like that scene was very much inspired by Florence and the Machine's Cosmic Love. And it's like every time I like hear that song, I'm like taken back to like being at the House of Wind, like seeing them. Yeah.

• 1:21:48Alex Cooper?

  How, is it so crazy the way that chapter 55 has like, everyone's like, chapter 55, chapter 55. You're like, oh my, did you know, like where, what was your headspace when you were writing that?

• 1:21:59Speaker 01

  I just was like, finally, they're finally fucking like, good. Like, I can't wait for this. And so I just like, and, but like, it was like such an emotional release because it was like, the buildup of the entire backstory that I, as the writer, had been waiting and waiting, waiting to finally like reveal. And like, I got to get that out of my system and lay it all out there. And then like the consummation of that. And I just was like, this is everything. And this was so satisfying. So I was like crying, but then also just like, yeah, this is hot. It just was, but like I, and so for it to become like a thing, like that actually means a lot to me because that was a scene that I had looked forward to writing for so, so long that when I, it finally came out of me, like it's almost exactly like verbatim, like the way it poured out of me, like not much changed between like

• 1:22:44Speaker 01

  the initial version of that scene and the published ones. Like, it just means a lot that it connected. Like, it's become a thing.

• 1:22:49Alex Cooper?

  Oh, girl, it hit. Um, you mentioned mates and to just quickly go through that, because I'm, I don't know if we still have people that are listening that aren't familiar with the books. I would be shocked.

• 1:23:01Speaker 01

  You should be gone by now.

• 1:23:02Alex Cooper?

  You should be gone. Um, we're a little too in the weeds, but can you just quickly explain like what that means in the world's mates?

• 1:23:08Speaker 01

  It's kind of like your destined true love in a way, but it's complicated because there's a biological component to it where like you can be mated to someone that is like not actually your true love. So like, there's like true, true mates. And then there's kind of like, nature made a mistake. May like Reese's parents did not love each other. Like it was not a great relationship, but they were mates. And it was like, uh, like there's a biological thing where they're like, we want to be together, but then it's like, we're fucking miserable with each other, especially as mom. So it's like, it's tricky, but then when you find your perfect mate, like Reese and Feyre, Cassie and Nest, like

• 1:23:49Speaker 01

  that is like the like last little piece of your soul that was like kind of a little broken and is now like you, you found your person.

• 1:23:56Alex Cooper?

  But the rejecting of mates, is Elaine rejecting the bond with Lucian?

• 1:24:04Speaker 01

  I think Elaine's got like her own trauma and shit that she's going through right now. I mean, like, imagine like being transformed into like a whole new body, a whole new lifestyle. Like you are gone from like a, I don't know, and like the human world there, like what 60 years is a good life to suddenly like centuries, like a millennium, like the world looks very different. And like, surprise, like you've been like forcibly like essentially married to like a stranger who also was like involved in bringing you into this world and like betraying you and like shoving you into the cauldron. It's like, she's got a lot of shit that she's processing. And so like

• 1:24:43Speaker 01

  exploring like a concept of a free will, like what does that look like with a mating bond? What like, what does that mean? And like, does nature like get it wrong sometimes? Does it get it right sometimes? Like what? And like that, again, like as a writer, I have to be like very, I'm like, I like to like find things that like make me interested. Like you get mated to someone and like, you don't want to be mated. I'm like, whoa, like what, what do you do? Like you're stuck with this person? Like what? Like what do you do? But like, I mean, the guy's like hot, but it's like, what if it's not? Like you don't know. Like it's just, it's something that like I really like find to be an interesting concept versus like Feyre and Nessie where it's so easy for them. Like nature picked right. Um, but

• 1:25:28Alex Cooper?

  I was thinking also when we were talking about chapter 55 and all the things like I, is it true that your grandmother reads these books?

• 1:25:34Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. Yes. Um, I don't know what's worse, my grandma or my mother-in-law reading them.

• 1:25:41Alex Cooper?

  Um, or your dad.

• 1:25:43Speaker 01

  My dad, well, my dad at least has been like, we don't speak of this.

• 1:25:46Alex Cooper?

  Okay. So he won't bring it up?

• 1:25:48Speaker 01

  No, but like

• 1:25:48Alex Cooper?

  But does he read it all?

• 1:25:50Speaker 01

  He used to. I feel like Silver Flames might have like broken him where he was like, this isn't for me anymore.

• 1:25:56Alex Cooper?

  Back to the newspaper.

• 1:25:57Speaker 01

  Back to the New York Times. Um, but yeah, my, my grandma reads them like everyone in her like, I know she wouldn't like the term nursing home, but like her, like old people's community reads them. And so I'm like, are you all getting like frisky like reading this? It's like, she's 95 years old. She's amazing. She, she is like my number one like icon in my life.

• 1:26:24Alex Cooper?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:26:24Speaker 01

  Um, but like, uh, she's gotten like all the people reading it.

• 1:26:29Alex Cooper?

  Wait, did she ever give you feedback?

• 1:26:32Speaker 01

  No, but then like on the opposite end of that, my mother-in-law has like grilled me and been like, are like the sex scenes in this inspired by you and Josh? And I'm like, yeah, when I'm like fucking your son, I am writing down notes. Would you like me to describe everything for you, Linda?

• 1:26:50Alex Cooper?

  She's like, yes, actually.

• 1:26:51Speaker 01

  And I'm like, I'm like, no, no, no. I'm like, we, we don't talk about these things.

• 1:26:56Alex Cooper?

  That is.

• 1:26:57Speaker 01

  It's mortifying.

• 1:26:58Alex Cooper?

  What are grandma and mother-in-law's favorite series?

• 1:27:03Speaker 01

  I think, I don't know, actually. For grandma, I don't know. She's read like all of it, but like, I feel like my mother-in-law probably loves Acotar.

• 1:27:13Alex Cooper?

  Who's her, does she love Resand?

• 1:27:16Speaker 01

  Yes, I think she like pretends that it's like Josh, even though it's not. He's not.

• 1:27:21Alex Cooper?

  She's like, oh, Josh, Josh's like, no, mom, it's not me.

• 1:27:24Speaker 01

  No, no, it is not. The number of times I've had to say like, it is not, he is not, they have, both have dark hair and that's it.

• 1:27:32Speaker 01

  That's it. That's the only similarity.

• 1:27:33Alex Cooper?

  I think that's so funny because like I have had that where people, because I have talked about sex on my platform, people feel comfortable to come up to me and talk about sex.

• 1:27:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:44Alex Cooper?

  Have you had any like really wild interactions where people are, whether they're asking details more about the character sex or they're asking you about sex?

• 1:27:55Speaker 01

  Um, oh God, I'm trying to think of what.

• 1:28:01Speaker 01

  I mean, like, I had a mother come up to me, like a like 50 something year old mother and be like, I just want to say, like, my daughter loves your books and you've completely like revolutionized her sex life.

• 1:28:15Speaker 01

  And I was like, well, I'm sure she appreciates you telling me that.

• 1:28:18Alex Cooper?

  You're like, amazing.

• 1:28:20Speaker 01

  I was like, I love that your daughter, but I also was like, I kind of love that you guys have this dynamic where like you know about this.

• 1:28:26Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 1:28:26Speaker 01

  I'm like, I think that's really cool, but also like, I don't know what to say to you as the mother of this child who's.

• 1:28:34Alex Cooper?

  Maybe though it is so, um, there's a weird thing, maybe because it is fantasy, there is like, it kind of is the, it bridges the gap of just like, episode three of Call Her Daddy, me being like, this is how you give head. And then like, meanwhile, with like, Resan and Feyra and Tamlin, all these dynamics, it's a little bit more like, yeah, like it's, you can ease the blow when you find out that your mother or your sister or your friend is reading it.

• 1:29:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, like, I actually learned probably more about sex from like, books and stuff, because it just seemed a lot less scary to me and felt like very safe and like connected to like, things like plot in the world. And so like, that was like, how I like learned, like, I would not have like, so I think you're, I think you're absolutely right.

• 1:29:30Alex Cooper?

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• 1:30:14Alex Cooper?

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• 1:30:55Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:30:56Alex Cooper?

  You're here for Call Her Daddy.

• 1:30:59Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:31:00Alex Cooper?

  But I need to ask you a pretty pointed question.

• 1:31:05Speaker 01

  Okay, I feel like you've like asked me a lot of intense questions, so I'm very eager to hear what you could be.

• 1:31:10Alex Cooper?

  Okay, I think we need to address your Instagram post.

• 1:31:16Speaker 01

  Which one, Alex?

• 1:31:17Alex Cooper?

  Well, Sarah, the one that quite literally lit the internet on fire, where fans could not tell if it was an arrow or if it was a six to eight, like, everyone has been freaking out. And so I have the pleasure of sitting across from you. And so I have to ask.

• 1:31:38Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:31:39Alex Cooper?

  Sarah, what is going on?

• 1:31:43Speaker 01

  Okay. Well, first of all, I guess I have really shitty handwriting, like really fucking shitty handwriting. If my like arrows and like numbers look messed up, like I'm ashamed of this. Like, that was not intentional at all. But I will say that that was Acotar 6.

• 1:32:09Speaker 01

  With the arrow pointing forward indicate like things going ahead of that. Um, and it is for the next Acotar book, which is coming out on October 27th of this year. Um, I've been working and working on that. It's been a long time coming. Um, it's something that I, it took me a long time to write. Um, just because there were enough things going on in my life that I had to like sort through and I had to like, and again, like I will talk about that perhaps in more detail one. I've already cried once today.

• 1:32:45Alex Cooper?

  Don't make me do it again, Alex.

• 1:32:46Speaker 01

  I don't. Yeah, I like my makeup stayed intact. Let's not push it. Um, but that it's taken a while because it took me a while to find the right story and to be in the right headspace. Um, and then like what poured out of me was this and it poured out like very quickly. Um, I was in Montana the summer and like, I don't know, like, I think there's like some kind of like energy vortex like around Big Sky because like I just got there and like it clicked. It all came out of me. So like talking about like deadline, like that's what I was working on. Like I've been working on like this next project. Um, not going to tell you the title yet, but like it's or like

• 1:33:30Speaker 01

  cover any of that. No, like I've seen, I've seen some of it and I'm

• 1:33:34Alex Cooper?

  Can you tell us length?

• 1:33:36Speaker 01

  I mean, it is.

• 1:33:40Speaker 01

  I mean, no, I don't want to say any, I feel like ever, I mean, like it's long, it's long.

• 1:33:44Alex Cooper?

  You can't tell us whose POV it's from.

• 1:33:46Speaker 01

  Um, no, and that was one of the like surprising things for me and like writing this and like what came out of like it's I you get a lot of like insight into like various things like it's

• 1:33:56Alex Cooper?

  Okay, hold on though. Because if I know anything about you, you all, there's always a plot twist. You've always got something also that's like, oh, you thought this, but also this. So is there anything else you want to share here on Call Her Daddy today?

• 1:34:14Speaker 01

  Okay, well, part of why I guess it's tricky to talk about the length of this book is because this book's coming out October 27th and then on January 12th, like two months later, I can't do math, whatever that is.

• 1:34:34Speaker 01

  The next Acotar book will be coming out. So there will be two books within like a very short span. Oh. And what that means and giving you like a glimpse into this project is just the story that was finally ready to come out of me was big. Really, really, really big. And as I started writing this in like this like Montana, like energy vortex like it came out of me in a way that surprised me. And by the time I reached like, you know, I like to do like parts in my like part one, part two, part three. By the time I got to like the end of part one, it was like 400 pages long. And there is a certain reality to books like Kingdom of Ash like had to be like two pages.

• 1:35:18Speaker 01

  Cause like the glue will not hold books together, but like what I was writing

• 1:35:25Speaker 01

  felt right. Like that was what the story that needed to be told. And so I decided I wasn't going to approach this project from a you know, traditional format of a book. And what if this story, like what if this book was really fucking long? Like, what if it took me more than a thousand pages to tell the story that needed to be told? The arc that I wanted to create from start to finish? What if that took a long time? Like, what if that took beyond the constraints of a single volume? And what does that look like? How do I tell that story? And so part one was this huge, huge thing. And then I realized it was going to be four parts, a book told in four parts.

• 1:36:10Speaker 01

  So then I wrote part three, part two and part three. And those were really fucking long. And so like, and then part four has yet to be written because I'm right now I'm trying to just get part one, which is out in October and then parts two and three, which will be out in January is like one combined thing. So it's basically going to be like three physical volumes, but it's like one thing altogether that like no amount of glue in like any publisher's like factory could ever like hold this. So it's meant to be read. Ideally as like one massive, massive story as opposed to like in like a trilogy. It's not a trilogy, like arcs aren't like wrapped up. It's like in the way like, you know, you take my book.

• 1:36:52Speaker 01

  It's like if you expand it all, a part one, all a part two, all part like all part like it would be huge. Like that. And so I just decided like I've never told a story that way. This is how it wants to come out. Why do I have to be held back by the realities of like the glue? That we need to hold like, hold the pages in or just like placement on a shelf. And like, how do I get this story out to my readers who've been waiting like so patiently? Like as soon as I can, like I could not live with the idea of like publishing part one. And then being like, you gotta wait like a year for like, then I was like, no, like I want that in everyone's hands. And so that's why we're doing like this, like back to back release.

• 1:37:37Speaker 01

  So there's going to be like a lot of Acotar in a very short time. And then eventually like the conclusion will be like written like once, once I get, I want to get these like, I don't want anyone to wait any longer. But it's like, it's a different, it's, you know, it's Acotar, but just I'm telling it in a way that's exciting to me. And like, gives me like the space that the story demanded and the characters demanded.

• 1:38:04Alex Cooper?

  Oh, yeah, I'm trying and I'm sure everyone's trying to do this right now. I'm trying to rack my brain around like every Easter egg you just gave us of like who's, what story needs to be told. All of like the way that it's being formatted, but like I cannot wait for October. I am so excited that you, because the last time you came out was 2021 with the last Acotar.

• 1:38:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I think it was cover. Oh, my God, that was so long. I know it's been, and that's, and that's why I was like, I'm not playing by anyone else's rules. Like this is like, I want, the most important thing for me is to write these stories the way they need to be told, but to also like.

• 1:38:49Speaker 01

  Honor my fans who like make all this possible and like I'm not playing by like industry rules. I'm not playing by like marketing what I'm I'm doing like what feels organic and like good for me and like my my readership and like I want to do it in a way that's fun and like we can all like have a great time like where it's just like the story will unfold like in the way it like in the fat in the way that I feel like would be the most fun to like for all of us like come together and be like, oh, like what's going on?

• 1:39:16Alex Cooper?

  I am like, what the fuck are you doing over there? Like I

• 1:39:20Speaker 01

  There's a lot of scheming happening.

• 1:39:22Alex Cooper?

  And what was it like coming back to the Acotar series and like writing and getting your head in this?

• 1:39:28Speaker 01

  I mean, it was it was obviously like hard. And again, there's like an element to it where I'm like, okay, like shit that was like tricky, like unrelated to the books, but related to the books that I had to like navigate and like figure out um and I wasn't ever gonna force myself to write a book because like that doesn't make a good book. Um, but I'm also someone who like I take no shit from myself or I'm like if I feel like I have writer's block, I'm like, like, get your ass in the chair and work. But this was different. This was different. This wasn't like me like just while like this was this was a level of like I needed to get something sorted out first. And so this came out like when I was

• 1:40:12Speaker 01

  when it was ready to come out, when I was right, like when this right story hit me like it hit me hard. And I had a vision from the start of like what it would be, how I would deliver it to you guys. And like that's what I want to do. And like getting to be in the driver's seat and decide like this is how I want to tell stories and like if I want to adapt it for like every new book or like just like arc? I can do that. Like I can, I can do that. And like, why not? Like, why can't we tell? Like, why do we have to like stick to like these boxes of like, this is how you tell a story from A to B? I'm like, no, like, what if we do something different? Like

• 1:40:46Alex Cooper?

  I am like, what are you up to over there? I can't. Oh, my God, the theories are gonna go crazy. Oh my God. I'm like, what, what did you do?

• 1:40:54Speaker 01

  Well, now I'm thinking that I'm just like, I'm juggling editing two books at once, two massive, massive books at once. So I'm just like, you're in it. That's, that's why I'm like pounding like diet cokes and coffee.

• 1:41:05Alex Cooper?

  Okay. Well, we're almost done. I, we are gonna end with some rapid fire.

• 1:41:09Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:41:10Alex Cooper?

  And I don't know if you'll answer any of these.

• 1:41:12Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:41:13Alex Cooper?

  But I'm gonna try.

• 1:41:14Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:41:14Alex Cooper?

  Because I'm a fan and I've got to try for the girlies out there.

• 1:41:17Speaker 01

  Okay, okay.

• 1:41:18Alex Cooper?

  Okay. So shut me down, but shut me down easy.

• 1:41:21Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:41:21Alex Cooper?

  We're gonna start from the beginning. We're gonna start with Throne of Glass. What did Lorcan do?

• 1:41:27Speaker 01

  Oh, someone explain this to me. Like the, like a couple of months ago. I, I don't know. I, I didn't, I didn't know how to feel about it then. I don't know how I feel about it now. I mean, like, maybe like bonus content and like surprise present, Christmas present sometime for all, all y'all.

• 1:41:47Alex Cooper?

  Okay. Where is Von?

• 1:41:50Speaker 01

  You know, that's actually a thing that I think about a lot. A lot. And that's all I'll say about that.

• 1:41:56Alex Cooper?

  Okay. Is the settling the same or similar as the drop?

• 1:42:01Speaker 01

  I don't, I don't, you're asking, okay, let's skip, just skip, just skip, just go, go, go.

• 1:42:07Alex Cooper?

  You're like skip, just say skip if you can't answer it. Why did Aelyn have to lose her powers?

• 1:42:12Speaker 01

  I mean, I do think that like,

• 1:42:17Speaker 01

  I actually really grappled with that one where I was like, I hate the idea of her having to give up something that she learned to love and embrace. But at the same time, like, I do think that like there needed, there needs to be some level of sacrifice when it comes to making a decision like that big to give up something that you love for something else. Like that's powerful. And I don't think it would, the ending would have felt as deserved. But then I also think it opens up, again, in my like endless thinking about things like,

• 1:42:51Speaker 01

  Just in me as her creator and writing this, like, what does it look like for her after that? You know, like, you go from like, all this power, then you give it up, and like, how does that feel? Like, I just, I find that there was like, even with that as an ending, it felt like a different start of like, a journey for me. That just like, was fascinating for me.

• 1:43:09Alex Cooper?

  I feel like people online have expressed frustration that some of the female characters, like her and Nesta, have had to sacrifice their powers and strength, while, you know, male characters have not. What is your response to that?

• 1:43:20Speaker 01

  Like, these books are about women coming into their power, and, but also, like, taking away the magic doesn't take away from their strength. And I think, like, that's what, like, Nesta and Aelyn realize, is that, like, they're still fucking badasses. And I think that's why it's so easy for Nesta in the end, because she's like, I, this wasn't, this didn't define her. And she's still, like, she's still Nesta. And so, like, losing that, like, doesn't make you any less of a hero, doesn't make you any less strong.

• 1:43:53Alex Cooper?

  Love it. Yeah. Okay, will we ever see our Throne of Glass characters again?

• 1:43:58Speaker 01

  I mean, obviously, I've told, I think about them all the time, so who knows?

• 1:44:02Alex Cooper?

  There's gotta be something.

• 1:44:03Speaker 01

  If my children let me sleep in past 5 a.m., sure.

• 1:44:05Alex Cooper?

  Perfect. Kids, come on. Josh, get it together. Um, where's Manon now?

• 1:44:11Speaker 01

  I mean,

• 1:44:12Alex Cooper?

  Is she working to rebuild the waste? Like, what are we doing?

• 1:44:14Speaker 01

  I mean, she's, honestly, she should be in therapy.

• 1:44:19Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 1:44:19Speaker 01

  That's where she is right now. Let's assume she's in therapy, because she went through a lot, a lot.

• 1:44:26Alex Cooper?

  What happened to the world of Throne of Glass book? Will that ever be released?

• 1:44:30Speaker 01

  That wound up being a project that I wanted, I, I thought would be easy. And then I realized, like, no, like, I need to actually, like, I, this means a lot to me, and I need to dedicate a lot of time. But I don't have that time, because I want to focus on getting these books, the actual books out. So maybe that's something that I, like, it's still something I want to do, but maybe it comes at a different time.

• 1:44:51Alex Cooper?

  All right, Acotar. Why is there a pool of starlight in the Spring Court? Is it a portal?

• 1:44:59Speaker 01

  Who thinks of these things?

• 1:45:00Alex Cooper?

  You.

• 1:45:01Speaker 01

  I mean, I do. I do.

• 1:45:04Alex Cooper?

  Look at that face.

• 1:45:05Speaker 01

  People read too closely. I don't know. I don't. I'm not answering it. I'm not answering that.

• 1:45:10Alex Cooper?

  Okay, how do Fae get into the House of Wind because they don't have wings? Like, do they climb the stairs?

• 1:45:18Speaker 01

  This might be something that you find out.

• 1:45:21Alex Cooper?

  Okay, what is Risan's last name?

• 1:45:25Speaker 01

  I'm not telling anyone. There's so much pressure now.

• 1:45:29Alex Cooper?

  Does it even matter?

• 1:45:30Speaker 01

  No, I mean, like, he's one of one.

• 1:45:32Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 1:45:32Speaker 01

  Right?

• 1:45:33Alex Cooper?

  What is the King of Hibern's actual name?

• 1:45:36Speaker 01

  Red. Frank. Frank.

• 1:45:39Alex Cooper?

  Actually, yeah, because no one wants to fuck him.

• 1:45:40Speaker 01

  That actually might be something that

• 1:45:44Alex Cooper?

  We could find out.

• 1:45:44Speaker 01

  That is discussed.

• 1:45:45Alex Cooper?

  Okay, what are Moir's powers?

• 1:45:48Speaker 01

  Like, truth.

• 1:45:49Alex Cooper?

  Truth.

• 1:45:50Speaker 01

  But you, like, have other powers beyond that, but I don't. I'm not going to reveal any more about. There might be more about that. Who knows?

• 1:45:58Alex Cooper?

  I'm just trying to get things out of you.

• 1:45:59Speaker 01

  You know what? Everything is possible. Everything you're asking me right now could just be, like, yes. Yeah, the answer is yes. You'll find out.

• 1:46:05Alex Cooper?

  Okay, um, can you tell us anything about the Desk Court? And are you going to explore any of it in your next book?

• 1:46:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, but you have to know, like, what do you want me to say, Alex? What do you want me to say here?

• 1:46:21Alex Cooper?

  I love you.

• 1:46:22Speaker 01

  What do you want me to say?

• 1:46:23Alex Cooper?

  Okay, okay, okay, we're moving on. I just, if anything, I'm just getting pleasure out of asking. You don't even need to answer.

• 1:46:27Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:46:28Alex Cooper?

  Um, tell me if I'm pronouncing this right. Where did Rye Axis go?

• 1:46:33Speaker 01

  Good. That was good.

• 1:46:33Alex Cooper?

  Thank you.

• 1:46:34Speaker 01

  Um, I mean, where do you think she went? What do you think she is up to? I mean, fear itself. What is that like? Where does that go?

• 1:46:45Alex Cooper?

  Who is Mama Archeron? Is she a descendant of the Iron Teeth Witches?

• 1:46:54Alex Cooper?

  You're like, you're putting me in pain.

• 1:46:56Speaker 01

  Is there like an alcoholic drink here?

• 1:46:58Alex Cooper?

  You're like, I need wine.

• 1:46:59Speaker 01

  I need, I need a spicy margarita.

• 1:47:02Alex Cooper?

  Okay, we're going to Crescent City.

• 1:47:03Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:47:04Alex Cooper?

  We never saw the body, so is Cormac actually dead?

• 1:47:08Speaker 01

  Where did you find these?

• 1:47:10Alex Cooper?

  All of me and my friends putting this together, being like, this is the time of our life.

• 1:47:14Speaker 01

  I, I can like see you with like, like string and like putting things in like.

• 1:47:18Alex Cooper?

  My husband was like, what's this episode? I'm like, don't worry about it.

• 1:47:22Speaker 01

  What isn't it?

• 1:47:23Alex Cooper?

  Exactly. Are Bryce and Hunt endgame?

• 1:47:26Speaker 01

  Yes, what? I don't, where does that, how could the?

• 1:47:29Alex Cooper?

  Well, there are a lot of theories that Bryce's true mate is Asriel. Is there any truth to that?

• 1:47:34Speaker 01

  No, I can, I can tell you right now, I'm sorry to anyone that shipped that and it's like been like ride or die with that. But like, no, Bryce and Hunt.

• 1:47:43Alex Cooper?

  Um, how did the Book of Breathings and the Walking Dead end up in Jessaba's library?

• 1:47:50Speaker 01

  I don't know. You'll have to stay tuned, Bransers.

• 1:47:53Alex Cooper?

  There are a lot of theories that Reese and Rune are related. Can you confirm or deny?

• 1:48:01Alex Cooper?

  You're like, fuck off. You can say fuck off.

• 1:48:04Speaker 01

  I'm not saying that. I like you. I'm not gonna.

• 1:48:06Alex Cooper?

  Okay, fair, fair. Is Maeve related to any of them?

• 1:48:09Speaker 01

  I mean, like, what? Like, I feel like I should just hand over my notebooks to you and you can like comb through them for like all the little notes that I've made.

• 1:48:15Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. Um, okay. I have to ask, why are there otters in Crescent City?

• 1:48:21Speaker 01

  Why aren't there otters? It's like, their otters are one of my favorite animals. Like, I lose my shit. Like, river otters, sea otters, I don't know why, I lose it. And so I just was like, what's the cutest thing that like an otter could do? And it's like, kind of like an aquatic, like, you know, like city, like, what if otters were just like messengers with their little paws handing letters?

• 1:48:43Alex Cooper?

  I love that. You're like, I just put it in there because I like it.

• 1:48:46Speaker 01

  It just sounded cute to me. Okay, it just sounded cute.

• 1:48:48Alex Cooper?

  Um, okay, who or what is Fury Axtar? Is she the mercenary that Feyre met in the first Acotar?

• 1:48:57Speaker 01

  Okay, these are like, again, these questions that are like.

• 1:49:01Speaker 01

  You're asking me things that I'm not sure if I could, should confirm or deny, or just like, let, let people, am I ruining people's dreams by answering these things? I don't know.

• 1:49:12Alex Cooper?

  Um, we've all seen the now deleted Twilight of the Gods Pinterest board.

• 1:49:18Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:49:18Alex Cooper?

  What's going on there?

• 1:49:20Speaker 01

  That was just like a story that I like, it was kind of like Crescent City where like, I always have like manuscripts and other stories in my head. Like, I think I have probably like three or four, like unpublished full books for like different series, like on my computer that just like, I don't know if they'll ever see the light of day, but like sometimes I just get a story in my head and like, I want to start writing it and like, I like get like ideas for it and it comes out and sometimes I want to share that with the world and sometimes I don't.

• 1:49:51Alex Cooper?

  Okay. Who would win in a fight? Bryce, Aelyn, Farah, or Manon?

• 1:49:58Speaker 01

  They wouldn't fight. They would all be like, this is dumb. We should support each other and let's go get like In-N-Out Burger together.

• 1:50:06Alex Cooper?

  Okay. You obviously are in a success and like a league of your own. You've had just like such an incredible career already. And I know we've talked about the pressures and also the beauty of it. How do you define success at this point in your career?

• 1:50:24Speaker 01

  I mean, for me, it's two things. Success is two things. One, it's getting to tell the stories that I want to tell, how and when I want to tell them. That's a gift. That's a, that's a wonderful blessing to have. That's all I ever wanted from when I was a kid. But it's also like, am I happy? Am I happy in my life doing this? Am I like, what is the balance? And like have I like, do I feel successful in that? Do I feel like I'm able to create from a place of joy and curiosity and excitement while also having a life that is like fulfilling

• 1:51:04Speaker 01

  and fun? And like, I get to be a mom to these two incredible kids and like a wife to like an awesome husband. Like, and like, what like that, like having that and finding joy from that, from things outside of my books, that feels successful to me. Like, I've built something beautiful, completely unrelated to that. But yeah.

• 1:51:26Alex Cooper?

  It is so beautiful. And also, like, what is so cool, too, is like, you have completely changed the way that people think about romanticy books. And you have given essentially legitimacy, I feel like, to an entire genre that was either dismissed or overlooked at one point.

• 1:51:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:51:41Alex Cooper?

  How do you feel about your legacy in the literary world?

• 1:51:47Speaker 01

  This is gonna sound like silly, and you probably like, won't believe me, but just like, talking about things like legacy is like beyond for me. When I started writing, when I started trying to get published, like, I told myself, like, you know, anytime I got a rejection, you know, I was rejected by every single agent, except one, every single publisher, except one. And those times, I told myself, it didn't matter if it took me until I was 90 years old to publish a book. If it wasn't the book I was trying to get published, I'd write the next one, and the next one, and the next one, until it happened. And so like, I was willing to have a life where like, just one book eventually made it. And that's was like, and

• 1:52:32Speaker 01

  that still was kind of like, that was the dream. And so, everything else beyond then has been insane, like insane to me. Because I'm still very much that like, girl in middle school or high school, like sneaking off to like, watch anime, or like, drool over like a list, and like, getting to go like, play in these worlds in my head, and like, do the thing that like, makes me come alive every day, is like, that's incredible. And so, like, talking about like, these books going beyond that, and meaning something, and like,

• 1:53:06Speaker 01

  Playing whatever role they have and like letting other similar books like get out there and like be appreciated and those like authors be appreciated like that. That's all like I I just like I feel very, very blessed, very humbled like I I love that people are reading like people like, I mean, as a kid, I just wanted someone to read my shit and be like, it's good. Like, that's all I wanted. Um.

• 1:53:31Alex Cooper?

  I also think it's such a great inspiring story because someone like you, again, like a lot of times we get the success stories, right? You're sitting here and you're so well known and you've had such such success. But a lot of people could be sitting right now, watching this, being like, I've wanted to be a writer, or I've wanted to be whatever it be. And when you are told no so many times.

• 1:53:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:53:55Alex Cooper?

  Um, that can be depleting.

• 1:53:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:53:58Alex Cooper?

  And the fact that you are where you are today, even though people looked at you being like, you're insane.

• 1:54:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:54:03Alex Cooper?

  This isn't gonna work. You had people in jobs look at you and roll their eyes about writing fantasy, right? And look at the empire that you've built. Like, what an incredible testimony to women listening of like, if anything, I genuinely believe that when people are telling you that you're crazy for wanting to start something or do something and they're all looking at you kind of cross eyed.

• 1:54:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:54:23Alex Cooper?

  That is like your first indicator that you're on to something incredible.

• 1:54:27Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Anytime someone told me I couldn't do something, I would say, watch me. Just watch me.

• 1:54:34Alex Cooper?

  You said you're like, I'll sign the book one day.

• 1:54:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:54:37Alex Cooper?

  Where, where are they now?

• 1:54:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, where are they now? And just like, I don't know, like, I wrote the thing that I love. Like, I wrote the stuff that I love, that I've always loved. And like, I was always flabbergasted that anyone, especially like older adults, would tell like a young person like, like, it's not worth your time. It will never happen. I'm like, Why can't we all be supportive of our dreams? And like, but thankfully, like, I knew what I wanted. Like, I knew this is what I wanted to do. And so there was nothing that was gonna stop me from that. But I also was willing to like, if it took me till I was 90, that was just what I want, just one book that came out when I was 90 years old. Like, that would have been wonderful.

• 1:55:16Alex Cooper?

  And look how many you have and more to come.

• 1:55:18Speaker 01

  And more to come.

• 1:55:20Alex Cooper?

  I cannot thank you enough for sitting down with me. I'm sure you can feel, I could have kept going, like, I have so-

• 1:55:27Speaker 01

  No, I could say, I'm very comfortable right now.

• 1:55:29Alex Cooper?

  Like, I have so many questions. There's so many, like, world-building questions and character arcs. And I recognize, I was trying to do a balance of getting to know you, also getting into your psyche. And I think we, we found a good balance of the themes in your life that have inspired some of these incredible worlds and characters. But it was really fun to sit down with you because I'm a benefan from afar. And now getting to sit with you, I feel even more invested, weirdly. And I'm like, now I need to go back and read all of these before October. No pressure.

• 1:56:02Speaker 01

  I'm very glad that I didn't disappoint you. And you were like, she was the worst and like, the most boring.

• 1:56:07Alex Cooper?

  If anything, I don't want you to leave. When we turn up the cameras, make, oh wait, and one more question, another question, another question.

• 1:56:12Speaker 01

  I'm going to Montana. You wanna come to Montana with me?

• 1:56:14Alex Cooper?

  We're going to Montana. Bye, everyone.

• 1:56:16Speaker 01

  I'll show you the vortex where everything-

• 1:56:18Alex Cooper?

  Where you wrote it all.

• 1:56:19Speaker 01

  Yes, I'll show you the magic vortex.

• 1:56:21Alex Cooper?

  Sarah, thank you so much for coming on Call Her Daddy. It was an honor.

• 1:56:24Speaker 01

  It was actually an honor. I mean, like, we talked about, like, me and like, all, like, what you have done, like, again, like, my friends don't give a shit about me. I mean, like, they do, they're proud of me. But like, me coming on here, like, this was a big, big deal for them. And like, thank you for making me feel cool.

• 1:56:43Alex Cooper?

  You are cool.

• 1:56:45Speaker 01

  I, I don't know about, I mean, like, cheetos.

• 1:56:48Alex Cooper?

  You are literally so cool and you are building worlds I don't, that all of us are obsessed with. I don't know what could be a cooler job. Like, what you have in your brain has made all of us into this insane fandom. Like, bow down to you. Great work.

• 1:57:03Speaker 01

  I love it.

• 1:57:03Alex Cooper?

  Great work.

• 1:57:18Alex Cooper?

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