Share & Swear & Tell with Jessica Smetana and Kevin Clark

Why the f*ck is Formula One cracking down on profanity? Is swearing a performance-enhancing drug? And what if you hosted The Paul Finebaum Show — only to be bullied for loving the Orlando Magic? Plus: a foul-mouthed grandma, an insurance adjuster on meth, an ass in the jackpot, a potentially pierced penis... and the Chalamet of it all. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:45Pablo Torre?

  This episode is brought to you by Apollo.io. A lot of the stories on this show start the same way. Something that looks pretty simple turns out to be a mess, once you look under the hood. Well, it's no different in the sales world. Your team has a tool for finding prospects, a different tool for reaching out to them, and a third for keeping track of it all. On paper, that's a system. In practice, it's a salesperson spending the better part of the day copying names from one tab into another, and not much of it actually selling. Apollo.io is a platform that helps sales teams find the right buyers and reach out to them. It brings prospecting, outreach, and follow-up into one place, instead of several separate tools.

• 1:27Pablo Torre?

  It's used by sales teams of all sizes, from small businesses to larger organizations, and it's built for teams who want less manual busywork and more time with buyers. If your marketing and sales teams are trying to work from the same view of the customer, it's worth a look. Sign up for free at Apollo.io. That's Apollo.io. This episode of Pablo Torre Finds Out is brought to you by McDonald's. The Quarter Pounder with Cheese with Medium Fries and a Drink is now $8. And look, I've chased down a lot of strange stories, but nothing quite like what's inside a Quarter Pounder with Cheese. It is 100% fresh beef, cooked right when you order it, with no artificial flavors, colors, fillers, or preservatives in the beef.

• 2:10Pablo Torre?

  The onions are hand-topped by someone who knows the perfect amount by memory, two slices of cheese and a star, and two pickles, side by side. So every bite gets both. And every time one's ordered, a cowbell sound rings in the kitchen. That's the grill master's cue to put a fresh patty on the grill. My move: QPC, fries and a drink after a long day of recording. That is my happy place. The Quarter Pounder with Cheese with Fries and a Drink, now $8 for a limited time only, only at McDonald's. For a limited time only. Prices and participation may vary. Prices may be higher in Hawaii, Alaska and California. And for delivery, fresh beef not available in Alaska and Hawaii.

• 2:54Pablo Torre?

  Offer not valid for delivery. I'm Pablo Torre and this episode of Pablo Torre Finds Out is brought to you by Remy Martin 1738 Accord Royale. Exceptionally smooth cognac for all your game day festivities. Please drink responsibly. Because today, we're gonna find out what this sound is.

• 3:13Speaker 02

  Jess has me shook because now I don't know whether I can say [BLEEP] or not.

• 3:18Speaker 03

  You should just call yourself a [BLEEP] instead.

• 3:20Pablo Torre?

  Right after this ad.

• 3:23Speaker 04

  You're listening to DraftKings Network.

• 3:38Speaker 05

  Jess, have you been following the, uh, the string of golf course brawls now captured on social media lately?

• 3:47Speaker 03

  No, but-

• 3:48Speaker 05

  There was one in Canada last week.

• 3:49Speaker 03

  Go on.

• 3:50Speaker 05

  And then today, there was a guy who got arrested in Florida. And so essentially golf courses are too packed and people are hitting into other people. And now there's massive brawls and social media's capturing it.

• 4:09Pablo Torre?

  This is Monday night at a course in West Colona. It starts with some shoving, cursing and club pointing, then escalates with two men exchanging punches. Audio suggests that one of the groups may have been playing too slowly.

• 4:24Speaker 05

  People are more eager to punch on the golf course for some reason right now.

• 4:26Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, I was gonna say, what's the difference between a golf course fight and like a Target or airline gate flight?

• 4:32Speaker 05

  Well, I'd say the airline gate thing is analogous because you're still gonna be like, you're still gonna see the guy.

• 4:38Pablo Torre?

  Right, you're both carrying bags around.

• 4:39Speaker 05

  Yeah, you're gonna get with a brawl with him and then be like, alright. We'll go back to where we were.

• 4:43Speaker 03

  The airline and the golf course, the thing they have in common is that you could be having a really bad day at both.

• 4:49Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 4:49Speaker 03

  If you're playing bad on the golf course and then someone hits you in the leg with their shot that went way out of bounds and didn't yell for, yeah, you might get in a little bit of a fight over that. If you're playing really well, though, I mean, you gotta let that one slide.

• 5:02Speaker 05

  I will say this, I had a thing a couple of years ago at Jacksonville Beach Golf Course, where I was paired up with my buddy, and we were, we were paired up with these two random people we did not know. The other people we do not know hit into the group in front of us unbeknownst to us. The sun was coming down, we couldn't see, it was downwind, we didn't know the ball was gonna go that far. So it either hits the guy like in the shoe or almost hits him, gets close enough but doesn't hurt him. So the guy brings his cart up and is like, we're gonna fight with the other guy. And so I look at my buddy and I go, what's the etiquette on if you're in a group with a guy who's about to get in a fight? Do we have to get in a fight with this guy because we were paired up with him?

• 5:41Pablo Torre?

  Hmm.

• 5:42Speaker 05

  Do we keep our distance?

• 5:43Pablo Torre?

  I'm going with get in the golf cart, drive away. You two, leave them behind.

• 5:49Speaker 05

  I'm gonna tell you what I did. I came up with this idea in the moment. It's the only good idea I've ever had. I said, this guy who's about to fight doesn't know we don't know that guy. So we're just gonna go make ourselves big, as if we were fighting a bear, and we're gonna stand behind them to be like, you're gonna fight all of us, and then we're gonna diffuse the situation.

• 6:07Speaker 03

  I would pretend I've never met this person, I don't know this person, and just, like Pablo said, drive to the nearest halfway station or whatever and like pretend I have to go to the bathroom.

• 6:18Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 6:19Speaker 05

  Sounds like nobody would wanna be paired with you on the golf course, yes?

• 6:22Speaker 03

  I hope they're not. I like playing by myself. It's great.

• 6:25Pablo Torre?

  I like the idea that Kevin Clark was like, look, if we join forces,

• 6:31Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm.

• 6:32Pablo Torre?

  this guy's gonna be scared to death by our combined might.

• 6:36Speaker 05

  This is like the one guerrilla versus hundred people thing of golf courses.

• 6:38Pablo Torre?

  I was gonna say, this is, this is, I think, a thing that would definitely fail the guerrilla test. And I'm gonna infer, based on, what city was this in?

• 6:48Speaker 05

  Jacksonville.

• 6:48Pablo Torre?

  Oh, that is scary, actually.

• 7:08Pablo Torre?

  I'm very glad that both of you are here, Jess Smith and Kevin Clark. I summoned you because you share a love of the sport that I don't know a lot about, but I've assigned Jess to not only teach me about when it comes to this specific story, but also do a bit of reporting. And I was in, Jess, immediately when the elevator pitch was, "F1 is banning profanity."

• 7:37Speaker 06

  Drivers have come together to openly criticize the head of the world motorsports governing body, the FIA, haven't they? They've released a collective statement through the Grand Prix Drivers Association, calling on Mohammed Ben Saleh to treat them like adults, so...

• 7:51Speaker 03

  The FIA, the governing body of Formula One, has decided recently a battle that they want to pick in Formula One is that they do not want swearing to happen, specifically in post-race interviews, but more vaguely in general around Formula One races. And they want their drivers to clean up their acts, basically, to stop swearing on camera.

• 8:14Pablo Torre?

  And the question, Kevin, I have fundamentally is, why the [bleep] would they care?

• 8:19Speaker 05

  Yeah, I think they're making a mistake. And when researching this, it was so funny, there was just a thing in NASCAR with Joey Logano and his teammate, I believe Austin Cindric, who, when they were just [bleep] bombing each other on the radio over and over again. Way to go, Austin. Way to go, you [bleep]. Way to [bleep] go. What a stupid [bleep]. He just gave it to him. Gave it to the auto stage one. Nice job. Way to go. That's a [bleep]. That is racing to me. You're in these, like, hundreds of miles per hour...

• 8:53Speaker 05

  Rocket ships and everybody like does all these crazy neck exercises to make sure they can handle zero gravity and all this stuff. And sometimes when they get mad at each other, because literally life is on the line, they drop an F-bomb. That's what racing is. And so there's been, uh, there's a precedent, I guess, in world rally championships as well, where there were fines for, uh, some, some, uh, F-bombs over the radio. So I would guess, if I had to guess, Jess, it would be on some sort of like, let's clean this up. It's more marketable. It's better for the sponsors or whatever. But I'm going to go the other way. The, I, I, I look at F1 and as a travel show, right? And it's very basic. You can experience, you can experience, uh, F1 at whatever level you, you want to experience

• 9:38Speaker 05

  it. If you want it to be purely tech, it can be purely tech. If it's purely competition, it's that. If you just want to look at the, how Ferrari developed its cars versus McLaren.

• 9:47Pablo Torre?

  Right. The science fair.

• 9:49Speaker 05

  But.

• 9:50Pablo Torre?

  Aspect.

• 9:51Speaker 05

  Correct. The biggest point of entry, the one that I'm in, is for dumb asses. And in that regard, this is a travel show where you turn it on and they're in Monaco and you go, I'd love to be in Monaco right now. And as part of that, I have a friend.

• 10:06Pablo Torre?

  F1 is also the white lotus for lots of people.

• 10:08Speaker 05

  Correct. I have a friend who calls F1, uh, Josh Robbins at the Wall Street Journal, calls it the Real Housewives of Monaco.

• 10:14Pablo Torre?

  As we establish how prevalent cursing had been in F1, um, I also want to establish, of course, Jess Smetana as somebody who's on the record, of course, as a subject matter expert, an expert witness in this regard as well.

• 10:27Speaker 02

  You bitch.

• 10:28Speaker 03

  Yeah. More finger pointing. I don't know if you should call yourself a bitch in this specific scenario.

• 10:33Speaker 02

  Well, I thought that part was funnier. No? Jess has me shook because now I don't know whether I can say bitch or not.

• 10:38Speaker 03

  You should just call yourself a pussy instead.

• 10:47Pablo Torre?

  And that apparently, Jess, is how a lot of the drivers in this sport also are talking.

• 10:54Speaker 03

  As Kevin said, swearing seems like it's part of driving, right? The famous expression is rubbing people the wrong way is racing. That's what you always hear drivers say. So I was really surprised when the FIA, thanks for the chuckle, Kevin, decided to-

• 11:09Speaker 05

  No, I got what you were doing.

• 11:11Pablo Torre?

  I just wanted some more, I wanted some more of the Carolinas.

• 11:14Speaker 05

  Pablo, Kevin doesn't know that rubbing is racing is the phrase. She changed the phrase.

• 11:20Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, it feels like it was cleaned up for-

• 11:22Speaker 03

  Real gearhead.

• 11:23Speaker 05

  Rubbing is racing.

• 11:24Pablo Torre?

  For the ivory tower, so we can understand it, Jess. Thank you, I appreciate that. And it feels like one of the first things that happened is that the young superstar, Max Verstappen, got into a presser, this is in September, at the Singapore Grand Prix, another location known for its harsh regulations around appropriate conduct, I suppose, Singapore, and did say, quote, "When asked about the state of the car he was qualifying in, it was [bleeped]." I went into qualifying, I knew the car was [bleeped].

• 12:00Speaker 05

  Thank you, Max. So let's watch our language going forward.

• 12:04Pablo Torre?

  The F1 quote-unquote stewards?

• 12:06Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 12:06Pablo Torre?

  The stewards summoned him? What the hell is that about? They summoned him for a conduct hearing, he got punished, and the punishment, and this is crucial, Jess, was not a fine, but rather what?

• 12:19Speaker 03

  He had to serve community service, and he ended up serving community service, I think in Rwanda around the time of the F1 awards at the end of the season, yeah.

• 12:29Pablo Torre?

  So all of this now is not merely the White Lotus, but also the character on the White Lotus who like is trying to go to a foreign country and be like a better person.

• 12:38Speaker 05

  Correct.

• 12:38Speaker 03

  Piper, no!

• 12:40Speaker 05

  Yeah, Piper, yeah.

• 12:41Pablo Torre?

  Max, no! What is happening? Community service? This is a thing? Like, this has not happened in other sports that I am familiar with. Community service?

• 12:50Speaker 05

  I would assume, Jessica, that there's no financial penalty-

• 12:55Speaker 05

  High enough to make a dent in these guys' lives. The only thing you could actually punish them with is taking away their time. That'd be my guess.

• 13:04Speaker 03

  And then a month later, Charles Leclerc, a driver for Ferrari, also drops an F-bomb in a post-race interview and immediately realizes his mistake.

• 13:14Speaker 02

  I had one oversteer and then when I recovered from that oversteer, I had an oversteer from the other side and then I was like, fuck. But luckily, sorry, oh no. Oh no, I don't want to join Max.

• 13:31Pablo Torre?

  Wow.

• 13:31Speaker 03

  Poor Charles.

• 13:32Pablo Torre?

  He actually did the no.

• 13:34Speaker 05

  No. Max, no.

• 13:36Pablo Torre?

  So, so these guys, what did he get, by the way? What befell him and Lou?

• 13:41Speaker 03

  He was fined, he was fined 10,000. He was fined 10,000 euro.

• 13:47Pablo Torre?

  Right.

• 13:47Speaker 03

  10,000 euro for Charles Leclerc, right. Which is, like, Kevin can speak to this also. The FIA and the way that they hand down punishments in races, but also outside of races, it's wildly varied. Like, there's no, there's no chart where you can look up, like, oh, this person is getting a penalty for overtaking when they weren't supposed to, or this person gets a penalty for this thing, or for their, you know, speeding in the pit lane, this is what it equals. Like, it really is wildly varied. And this is just another example of, like, you don't really exactly know what your punishment's going to be sometimes in F1.

• 14:22Speaker 05

  There's no real chart. There's no chart where they say this is the punishment. They kind of make it up.

• 14:26Pablo Torre?

  So, the assumption was that this meant you can't swear on TV, right? Or that you couldn't swear in a race? And I should also clarify, for those not familiar with the sport you guys love, that when you are racing, you are, by definition, mic'd up on television? Or how does this work?

• 14:44Speaker 05

  Yeah, the radio feed can go on to television, yes. Or an app, or any of the internet stuff. You can basically listen in to anything anybody's saying.

• 14:52Pablo Torre?

  Which is incredible, by the way. So that is the, that's like the anti-NFL, like, that's the opposite of what the NFL's approach has been, which is, wasn't it like Sam Darnold said, "I'm seeing ghosts out there," and then everyone was like, "We can never let anybody be this vulnerable ever again."

• 15:08Speaker 04

  Seeing ghosts. That's not good.

• 15:11Speaker 05

  So, all of the NFL films, and mic'd up and all that stuff, you can hear the raw audio of it. And then, a, and this is every sport, it's not just the NFL.

• 15:21Pablo Torre?

  Yes, NBA, also you have players who are mic'd up.

• 15:24Speaker 05

  You know, midweek, you get a kind of a sanitized version of what was said, and sometimes you learn a lot, sometimes you don't. But I have, I know someone who once heard the full uncut audio, or I've heard it a lot, and said that if it ever leaked, actually, it's sort of like the Mets, the Terry Collins thing, if you remember that, where they're just screaming at each other.

• 15:43Speaker 04

  No, no, Terry, listen, I'm telling you, our ass is in the jackpot now, okay? Okay, that's, I'm just telling you. [bleep] you mother [bleep].

• 15:52Speaker 05

  A mic'd up game is just so intense and insane, because they know that the sanitized version is getting out there, that if it ever leaked, and a 60-minute game got onto the internet, it would, it would maybe change sports forever.

• 16:06Pablo Torre?

  Right. In other words, to quote the umpire yelling at Terry Collins, everybody's ass would be in the jackpot, in that case.

• 16:14Speaker 05

  Yes, I'm like, but what's funny is that like, that leaked, and it seems sort of like a, a medium level argument with the umpire, and we've been talking about it for a decade.

• 16:23Speaker 03

  To your point, Pablo, the in-race audio communications between the drivers and their race engineers is something that, to me, is so vital as a fan. There have been some extremely memorable moments that have come out of it, both funny, both like, interesting, um, there's been things that you've learned throughout the race, like you, if a, if a driver is concerned about their, their tire temperature, or they have an issue with their car, or famously, a couple of weeks ago, Charles Leclerc said to his audio engineer, the same Ferrari driver we just heard from, um, "There's something wet on my seat, I think there's water on my seat."

• 17:04Speaker 05

  A leakage of what? I have the seat full of water.

• 17:08Speaker 03

  And his engineer said back, "Must be the water." Must be the water.

• 17:13Speaker 05

  Let's add that to the words of freedom.

• 17:15Speaker 03

  I don't think he thought he pissed himself, but I guess we won't, we won't really ever know. And then in March, we should clarify, the FIA was like, "No, this doesn't include in race communications." But that was already after there had been such a huge reaction to people thinking it was. So it's again, like just apparently they're not going to be worried about that right now. But they obviously can change their minds and decide that that's not the case if they feel like it. Which again, makes drivers sort of anxious and scared and confused.

• 17:46Pablo Torre?

  The other thing all of this makes me think of, Jess, the whole ambiguity, the whole, "Why is this even necessary? Why does this feel like this is a top-down thing that nobody actually wants?" It reminds me of the NBA dress code. Where there was some aspect of like, "This sport is actually like too urban, too black. And we need to make this saleable so that living rooms across America feel like they can show this to their kids. And everybody can have a grand old time." What I don't get about this though, is that when I am thinking about like the spectrum of sports across the world,

• 18:24Pablo Torre?

  like that concern applies to so little of what I imagine F1's issues are as a marketing issue?

• 18:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:32Pablo Torre?

  As a marketing problem? What are they worried about?

• 18:36Speaker 03

  Hey, that's I think ultimately the question, right? It's like, why are they doing this? And to your point about the NBA dress code, there were some very pointed comments made by the head of the FIA, Mohamed Ben Salayem, about not wanting drivers to be like rappers. And Lewis Hamilton, who is the only black F1 driver, one of the best drivers of all time in Formula One, came forward and said, "Hey, man, it feels like you're making a pretty like obviously racially coded commentary there about not wanting your sport to seem black when you're using the term rapper." So that's ultimately the question, why are they doing this? And there was also another incident where there was an attempted jewelry ban a few years ago.

• 19:12Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, I remember that.

• 19:13Speaker 03

  And Lewis came to his press conference at the Miami Grand Prix

• 19:16Pablo Torre?

  Tons of jewelry.

• 19:17Speaker 03

  That week with three watches on, tons of rings and all this jewelry on, just to prove a point.

• 19:23Speaker 05

  Jess, was there not a driver who indicated that maybe he had his private parts pierced?

• 19:28Speaker 03

  Lewis Hamilton himself.

• 19:29Speaker 05

  Yeah, thank you.

• 19:30Speaker 03

  Joked that he had a piercing because he has a nose ring and he was saying that there was a piercing that he, other than his nose ring, that he couldn't take out.

• 19:38Speaker 05

  Remove, yes.

• 19:39Speaker 03

  That people can't see. And it was a joke, but for a very long time, many of us believed it was not a joke.

• 19:45Speaker 05

  How did he confirm it wasn't a joke?

• 19:48Speaker 03

  That's true. I mean, he just, he just, he just said so.

• 19:51Pablo Torre?

  This is now a separate, ongoing PTO.

• 19:52Speaker 03

  This is a different investigation.

• 19:54Pablo Torre?

  Is Lewis Hamilton's penis pierced?

• 19:58Pablo Torre?

  I am looking at the photo that is available here. And it's an important detail, I think, for those not watching on YouTube. This was 2022. And Lewis Hamilton has three watches. He has a zillion rings. He has so many necklaces and is also wearing a mask.

• 20:13Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 20:13Pablo Torre?

  Which is just like to prove the point about all of the gear that he has.

• 20:18Speaker 05

  Do you know that Jessica and I were supposed to voice the international ABC intro to that race that the Lewis Hamilton was protesting at? And I lost my voice and I couldn't do it. And I got replaced by Chris Whittingham.

• 20:33Speaker 03

  I was on it, though. I was, I was right there on ABC.

• 20:37Speaker 05

  I remember. I remember. I watched it.

• 20:38Speaker 03

  I wish I could, but I don't have a voice.

• 20:41Speaker 05

  I didn't say that. I didn't say that.

• 20:43Speaker 04

  In a world where this guy's [BLEEP] is pierced, many drivers gather.

• 20:48Speaker 05

  It was a really good intro. I don't know how, how did you hear it? It was really good. It was a horrible day for me.

• 20:55Pablo Torre?

  Wow.

• 20:55Speaker 03

  Instead, it was witty and he was like, "In a world where this man's penis is pierced with a ring."

• 21:03Speaker 05

  And then I was like, watching it with you guys and you were getting texts from all your family members. And I was just like, oh, I'm so happy for you guys. I'm just so happy.

• 21:12Pablo Torre?

  I definitely love this. I love that this worked out like this for you.

• 21:16Speaker 05

  Awesome for you guys. It's just so cool to see others succeed.

• 21:28Pablo Torre?

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• 25:00Pablo Torre?

  So Drive to Survive, right, is the showcase in which, by the way, like, it became clear that swearing is key to the sport.

• 25:06Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 25:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:08Pablo Torre?

  Like, the, the, who's the character there where it's like, "Meet this guy and know what it means to be profane."

• 25:16Speaker 03

  Daniel Ricciardo.

• 25:17Speaker 05

  For Daniel Ricciardo, yeah. He's Australian. Does that answer your question?

• 25:20Pablo Torre?

  Oh, yeah.

• 25:20Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 25:21Pablo Torre?

  That does answer my question, actually.

• 25:22Speaker 05

  There's a scene, uh, I'm not gonna, there's a scene in three or four, where like the opening scene is Daniel Ricciardo calling Netflix, the entity of Netflix, the C-word. Netflix are a real bunch of [BLEEP] are they?

• 25:37Speaker 05

  I'm off of them to play. I just wanna tickle my scroll.

• 25:43Speaker 06

  And touch my nutsack. People would argue that they're the same thing. Maybe they are, but scrotum is ticklish. Ticklish it is. I don't even know if it was a freaking one. That's ad hoc.

• 26:02Speaker 04

  You happy with your hair?

• 26:04Speaker 06

  I don't know, I haven't seen it. Probably, if you've asked me, then it must look shit.

• 26:07Speaker 04

  Right. Testing three, four.

• 26:09Speaker 03

  Drive to Survive introduced people to so many characters in the world of Formula One and is the reason why a lot of Americans specifically fell in love with Formula One. And part of that is learning people's personalities and getting to know them and understand them and feel with them and laugh with them. And swearing is part of that, right? Like not having to censor yourself on camera is a thing that people consider authentic and they connect with. And I think is one of the reasons, it's not the only reason why F1 became popular. It's not like people like Daniel Ricciardo because he swears. But I think people like Daniel Ricciardo because he's funny and that's a component of his humor. And so these things are all sort of connected, right? Like you want these athletes to be themselves and you want to feel like you know them.

• 26:51Speaker 03

  And when you're getting a sanitized version of who they are, it can probably, you know, turn people off and also sort of fly in the face of what's made this sport really interesting in the last five years to, to its newest fans.

• 27:05Pablo Torre?

  As there is now talk, as you were referring to Jess, of like this galvanization of a driver's strike being threatened, we're reading, uh, as the FIA is threatening to take away points as a matter of enforcement. I wanted to get to the reporting around the science of this that you did, which I was a bit surprised to hear would enter the conversation as we have been fairly, uh, legal and profane in our legality. But, but what, what, what did you find out?

• 27:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, this show, unlike the rest of America, still believes in science, Pablo. We reached out to a, a linguist and a professor of cognitive science at UC San Diego, his name's Dr. Ben Bergen, to talk about the science behind swearing. And so we talked to Dr. Ben Bergen, who is the author of What the F? What Swearing Reveals About Our Language, Our Brains and Ourselves, the, a great title of a book. And we asked him about swearing's physical impact on the body.

• 28:04Speaker 06

  There aren't a lot of ethical ways to hurt people in laboratory studies, but one way that you can do it is you can have them stick their hand in ice water and hold it there for a long time. And it turns out that the duration that they can hold their hand is a good measure for how, a proxy for how painful it is to them, right? And there have been a bunch of studies like this where you assign people randomly to either swear or say words that are not swear words, just kind of neutral, you know, anodyne words, brown, chair, whatever. And it turns out that the people who are randomly assigned to swear can hold their hands in the water about 50% longer and report substantially lower pain, subjectively. So you could imagine that in lots of dimensions of athletic performance, you know, where

• 28:49Speaker 06

  pain is a limiting factor in what you're able to get your body to do, swearing might actually make it easier to push through whatever that limitation is.

• 28:58Pablo Torre?

  So I'm understanding this clearly. I want to, I want to just ask you, Jess, he's suggesting that swearing is also kind of a performance enhancing drug?

• 29:06Speaker 03

  It can increase your pain tolerance. It's like, uh, they did like the Gom Jabbar test in Dune and let people swear. And the people that swore were like, we're good. And the people who were like, fear is the mind killer, were, they were actually not so good.

• 29:20Pablo Torre?

  But now, the other part of this, I imagine, is, look, it's not even really up to us. Like, this is just a thing we need to do because it's a release. What is, what is our professor, author, scientist friend saying about that?

• 29:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's saying that swearing releases adrenaline and adrenaline is this hormone that your body releases in these types of situations and it causes an increase of blood flow to your extremities, it increases your pupil dilations. These are things that could advantage drivers during races and the more adrenaline you have in your body, the more you might swear.

• 29:56Speaker 06

  There was a fun study that did this. So it wasn't, wasn't with driving, but they had, they tried to induce a state of, of emotional arousal. Physiological arousal by having people, this was with gaming, actually, have them play either a golf simulator or a first-person shooter. And then they gave them a task where they just had to produce profanity, as many profanities as they could within a minute. And the people who were first assigned to the first-person shooter simulation were able to produce significantly more profane words.

• 30:32Speaker 03

  If you've ever been in a high-stress situation, you probably are familiar with the feeling of that situation ending, but you still have like the same amount of adrenaline coursing through you. You don't just get to flip a switch and all of a sudden you're just not stressed anymore.

• 30:44Pablo Torre?

  Well, this is the comedy of watching any, certainly any playoff game in the NBA and watching any post-game interview in which they are like sweating from every pore and like huffing and puffing and then they have to answer, you know, questions from fill-in-the-blank your favorite sideline reporter here, you know, asking them to contemplate their successes, failures, and existential fears.

• 31:07Speaker 05

  What were the Wolves doing on defense in the third quarter? I'm just like, oh.

• 31:10Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, my answer would be, "Bleugh, I am, I am exhausted and I just want to puke." And I just want to actually curse at you for asking me that question today.

• 31:21Speaker 03

  When I walk out of the Levitard Show studio after four hours of stress and adrenaline and anxiety, Pablo, I don't immediately take a nap. I go for a walk for a couple hours and let it burn off me and then I take a nap. This is the same if you're an F1 driver.

• 31:36Pablo Torre?

  And then it's just like the demographics of this because these guys, again, when you mentioned Dune, I'm like, yeah, Shalhoub looks like an F1 driver. These are all, doesn't he? Why, am I wrong?

• 31:46Speaker 05

  He's tiny. That could work.

• 31:47Speaker 03

  He's too tall, though. I think he's too tall.

• 31:48Speaker 05

  Is he too tall?

• 31:49Speaker 03

  George Russell's the only real tall guy. I think Shalhoub is...

• 31:52Speaker 05

  How tall is Shalhoub?

• 31:53Speaker 03

  I think he's like 5'11".

• 31:57Pablo Torre?

  5'10" according to an increasingly flawed Google search result function.

• 32:01Speaker 05

  Well, George Russell's tall. Uh, isn't there one other tall guy?

• 32:05Speaker 03

  Ricardo's probably like 5'11".

• 32:06Speaker 05

  Esteban Ocon was really, was really tall.

• 32:07Speaker 03

  Yes, he is tall. So he would be on the taller end, but from a frame standpoint, like his physical frame, I, I do think he could be okay.

• 32:15Speaker 05

  I took a photo, let's get this up there in the post-show, and it's of Yuki Tsunoda standing next to Jalen Phillips, the Dolphins defensive end.

• 32:24Pablo Torre?

  Why were they in the same room?

• 32:25Speaker 05

  Because it was the F1 Miami.

• 32:27Pablo Torre?

  Oh, right.

• 32:28Speaker 05

  And I took a photo and it was unbelievable.

• 32:31Pablo Torre?

  Oh, my God.

• 32:33Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 32:34Pablo Torre?

  It looks like, so it looks like Jalen Phillips is going to uh, hold Yuki Tsunoda in the palm of his hand and throw him across the field.

• 32:43Speaker 03

  These are mostly young guys in their twenties.

• 32:46Pablo Torre?

  But yes, they're young dudes is my point. That's the charade of it all.

• 32:50Speaker 03

  The charade of it all is that they're young dudes and they grew up, a lot of them, sim racing, gaming, online, a, a traditional place where uh, you're not really censoring yourself a lot of the time, like Max Verstappen is a full-time sim racer and a part-time Formula One driver. So he grew up on the internet sim racing. The larger gaming culture may have an impact on the amount of profanity and sort of the desensitization for some people to swear more.

• 33:21Speaker 06

  I've had undergrads who have looked at this. So they, you know, where they survey, this is not peer-reviewed research, but, but you know, anecdotally, where they ask people how offensive they think words are. And separately ask them how much time they've spent on various different sorts of uh, gaming platforms and in, in certain, different specific games. And it turns out that there are specific words that show up a lot in Call of Duty, for example. And if you are a Call of Duty player, then those words you judge to be less offensive than if you are a gamer, but not a Call of Duty player.

• 33:51Pablo Torre?

  That is simultaneously a deeply interesting uh, research finding and also the least surprising research finding imaginable. That people who play Call of Duty don't understand why it is that all of you guys are offended when they call someone, fill in the blank, uh, slur wrapped inside five other slurs. I also just think it's, I, I think it's, if, I'm just trying to like power rank the least censored places in life. And I do think like video game, multiplayer, uh, Call of Duty.

• 34:30Speaker 05

  And the chat function for any illegal stream for sports.

• 34:34Speaker 03

  I was gonna say my grandma's house. Um, my grandma's car, my grandma's phone.

• 34:42Speaker 05

  My grandma's phone?

• 34:45Speaker 03

  She actually was the first person to text me, "I love that you called Levitard a [BLEEP] so."

• 34:50Pablo Torre?

  Wow.

• 34:52Speaker 03

  To your point about why the FIA is doing this, Pablo, I still don't know. I think that there's a larger conversation at play here between the FIA and the Formula One relationship and how much the FIA is trying to impinge itself upon that relationship and enforce rules and declare its power. And I think there's, you know, a very obvious pushback from Formula One. There's been some really high-profile FIA resignations in the last few months. There's been a lot of scandals around the FIA and things like this, but also things involving racing regulations and the things that actually determine the fairness and the outcomes of races that drivers really don't like.

• 35:32Speaker 03

  So this is really just one thing in a long string of very unpopular FIA rules that drivers are not happy about.

• 35:39Pablo Torre?

  Yeah. Kind of feels like the FIA, to quote our resident expert, being a real bunch of [BLEEPs].

• 35:47Speaker 03

  Hmm. Your words, not mine.

• 35:59Pablo Torre?

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• 36:44Pablo Torre?

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• 37:27Pablo Torre?

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• 38:08Pablo Torre?

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• 38:49Pablo Torre?

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• 39:20Pablo Torre?

  Speaking to clinics of the human language. Uh, Kevin Clark, you did something that felt like a real make-a-wish experience for, for everybody.

• 39:30Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 39:31Pablo Torre?

  In sports. Can you tell us what you did last week?

• 39:34Speaker 05

  I hosted the Paul Feinbaum Show in Charlotte, North Carolina. Like, like Jessica, uh, I know the Carolinas well. So I went down to Charlotte. The day before I was supposed to host, or I did host, uh, I was a guest with Paul in the 6:00 PM hour, which is very important because I got to pick his brain. I got to figure it out. I had talked to people who had hosted before. And their advice nearly universally was let the callers talk.

• 40:01Pablo Torre?

  Hmm.

• 40:01Speaker 05

  That it is, especially when it's a guest host, it's the caller's show.

• 40:06Pablo Torre?

  Yes.

• 40:06Speaker 05

  It's not, I'm a steward of the callers.

• 40:09Pablo Torre?

  As, as, as F1 likes to say, you are a steward.

• 40:13Speaker 05

  And so the idea that I was gonna come in and like, grab the bull by the horns, be like, no, no, no, you're, this is my world. Welcome to the jungle. You know, I turned into Romy and just started dumping callers, right? That, that wasn't gonna happen. I was, I'm so respectful of the institution of Finebaum because

• 40:31Speaker 05

  in another world, like somewhere in the multiverse, there's a world in which it's, it's Kevin from Florida on a cellphone, right? That's, that's, there's a world there.

• 40:41Pablo Torre?

  You're on a tremendous amount of meth.

• 40:42Speaker 05

  Yes, and I'm an insurance adjuster and all I want to do is talk about Carson Beck. Okay, that's all I want to do. And I, I opened up the show by, and by the way, that's not a million miles from where I am now, as far as the meth and the wanting to talk about Carson Beck. Um, but the, uh, don't roll your eyes. Don't roll your eyes at me, Jessica.

• 41:01Speaker 03

  That wasn't an eye roll. That, yeah, it wasn't an eye roll.

• 41:04Speaker 05

  Yeah, it was an eye roll. Um, but no, I, I had opened up the show by saying, like, I remember driving around Florida and it's hot as hell and it's April and there's literally no college football content and all I wanted to do was find when Paul was syndicated the right dial and just listen to him talk about like Connor Shaw and how South Carolina's gonna do that year. Like, I remember this. And so to be that voice. To be that voice on my side, on my, on, on that side of the desk was incredible.

• 41:34Pablo Torre?

  Well, well, what's funny though, Jess, about Kevin's sort of description of, of, of the sickness that you also share, right? Is that to me, it's never more vivid than in the universe of Paul Finebaum.

• 41:47Speaker 05

  Correct.

• 41:48Pablo Torre?

  Like these callers, and we did an episode about this on our show, talking to some of the, some of the greats, specifically the greatest.

• 41:54Speaker 05

  Legend.

• 41:55Pablo Torre?

  Legend. Um, like legend is this personification of that sickness.

• 42:02Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm.

• 42:02Pablo Torre?

  For those who missed Kevin Clark, playing the role in your playbill tonight of Paul Finebaum. Uh, my favorite call did sound like this.

• 42:11Speaker 05

  It's Legend. Legend, hello.

• 42:14Speaker 04

  How you doing, brother? How you doing, man?

• 42:16Speaker 05

  I'm doing great. So first of all, before we start, we have a mutual friend in Mr. Pablo Torre, who did a great episode of his podcast, Pablo Torre Finds Out, about you. Uh, Pablo is an amazing person. I love learning about you, so I'm so happy you're calling in right now.

• 42:33Speaker 04

  Man, I appreciate it. Pablo Torre is one of the great journalists today. We all know ESPN, all they love these days is former players, you know, with seven or eight concussions, telling us what's going on in life, but thank God for great journalists like Pablo Torre. Man, that dude's off the hook, man. Dude's off the hook. One of the best. Great guy, great guy, great guy. But I'm worried about you, dude.

• 42:57Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 42:58Speaker 04

  I'm worried about you, man. I don't know if you're gonna make it or not, man. You, you look like you got in the Mr. Roger neighborhood there and got into his closet. What you wearing there today, man? I mean, I mean, what's up with that outfit, man? You're on the Paul Finebaum Show. You, you supposed to come in here, man, blazing. What's up with this outfit you got going on, bro?

• 43:18Speaker 05

  This is a golf cardigan, Legend. I thought this was okay.

• 43:21Speaker 04

  I love these of Pablo, but you remember this right here. You are with the insane. You are with the lame. You are with those that may not have a brain. Protect yourself, brother. Protect yourself.

• 43:35Speaker 05

  Appreciate you, Legend.

• 43:36Speaker 04

  Elvis has left the building.

• 43:39Pablo Torre?

  I mean.

• 43:40Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 43:41Pablo Torre?

  So it was a roller coaster for you.

• 43:43Speaker 05

  It was so, um.

• 43:45Pablo Torre?

  Like you were not embraced at first?

• 43:47Speaker 05

  No, I was hated. Um, so there were a couple of, so this is the first hour. Let me tell you guys the journey. So the first hour was calls like that. No, not, not to that level, uh, everybody, but.

• 43:58Pablo Torre?

  Me centric.

• 43:59Speaker 05

  Yeah, of course.

• 44:00Pablo Torre?

  Yeah.

• 44:00Speaker 05

  You didn't send everybody to, to dog me, but, uh, Jim from Tuscaloosa, who is a frequent caller.

• 44:10Pablo Torre?

  Yes.

• 44:10Speaker 05

  Who gets on guest host quite a bit. He called me a horrible host, uh, in the first hour.

• 44:16Speaker 04

  You need to get your act together. I mean, really, I.

• 44:19Speaker 05

  No, can I ask you a question, Jim?

• 44:20Speaker 04

  Well, go ahead.

• 44:21Speaker 05

  If you could clear up one misconception about you that you think other callers have, what would it be?

• 44:26Speaker 04

  I don't know. I'm not, I'm not answering a hypothetical. Ask me a straight question.

• 44:31Speaker 05

  I won't assume anything.

• 44:32Speaker 04

  I already found out you're a horrible host.

• 44:36Speaker 05

  And then I just hung in there. I did, I embraced the process, did what I wanted to do. And, uh, eventually Jim from Tuscaloosa called back to tell me I was doing a good job.

• 44:47Speaker 04

  I had somebody, I, I can't imagine who said that you didn't know how to dress. Let me tell you something, uh, Kevin. You have the best looking outfit I've seen on this show, maybe, maybe ever. That's a great looking outfit.

• 44:59Speaker 05

  I appreciate that. Have you, have you maybe, I don't want to be too forward. Have you backed off your earlier assessment that I'm a horrible host?

• 45:08Speaker 04

  Well, at the time you were a horrible host because you, you, you bought into some idiot.

• 45:13Speaker 05

  Uh, yeah. So at the time I was, he said.

• 45:16Pablo Torre?

  Yeah.

• 45:17Speaker 05

  Um, he also, he also spent a good deal of time saying I'm a good looking guy. So I went from.

• 45:24Speaker 03

  Footage not found.

• 45:25Speaker 05

  No, it's in there. It was in there. So he went from, I'm a horrible host.

• 45:29Pablo Torre?

  Narrator.

• 45:30Speaker 05

  I'm no longer a horrible host and I might be hot.

• 45:33Pablo Torre?

  Wow.

• 45:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:34Speaker 05

  In one hour, in one hour.

• 45:36Pablo Torre?

  What a, what a, I mean. I would say that among the things you could do as a college football unhinged

• 45:44Pablo Torre?

  maniac. This is, this is, this is up there, man.

• 45:47Speaker 05

  It was like I was a fantasy camp. I was like, let's get four col- I got Mina Kimes on.

• 45:53Speaker 05

  And we talked about draft, but other than that, it was three college football writers. And I was just like me, it was Kevin Clark finds out about college football, basically. And I just, I, I loved it. I loved it.

• 46:05Pablo Torre?

  Yeah.

• 46:06Speaker 03

  First of all, that's trademarked, so you can't use that. Second of all, legendary turn for you. I mean, I guess it was Jim, so Jim and dairy turn for you.

• 46:17Speaker 05

  Jesus.

• 46:18Speaker 03

  Becoming less hated on the show. I think that it's not just the fact that, you know, it's not, not the dream to sit in the chair, right? The dream is to sit in the chair, but to get invited back.

• 46:27Speaker 05

  The reward in TV is getting invited back. Like, that's, that's the goal. Like, that's the, the reward. Like, whenever it's like, hey, you get no, you get no feedback in this industry. None. Not ever.

• 46:38Pablo Torre?

  It is, it is true.

• 46:39Speaker 05

  You get none.

• 46:40Speaker 03

  There's some several hundred comment long Reddit threads of feedback that I could show you about my performance.

• 46:48Speaker 05

  I could not imagine. I think the callers have a lot of influence over Finebomb, because I think that if it wasn't-

• 46:54Pablo Torre?

  That show specifically, yes.

• 46:57Speaker 05

  Finebomb callers were not having a good time with me, I probably would not be invited back. You know, because it just wouldn't be that fun of a show. Like, if people don't call, or if I was like a jerk to them.

• 47:08Speaker 05

  I was thinking about this afterwards, and I was thinking, if I was a jerk, if I wanted to do like, I'm from New York, I went to Miami, I'm not an SEC guy. If I wanted to go full heel, the bar for me to be funny would have to be so high, and it would have to be so antagonistic. It would be, end up being so stupid. You'd have to end up being like, be like the, the corporate era of The Rock in the early 2000s, where he like had a guitar and would sing songs about how much he hates the Sacramento Kings and Sacramento and stuff. Like, that is how you go just full heel. And the, the easiest thing would be to just embrace, first of all, be who- You are, which I was, and be like an obsessed college ball fan and just explain to them that I had the same affliction that they do.

• 47:49Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, I would recommend anybody who is forced to host a show talking about a sport they don't actually like to find perhaps a profanity scandal that would allow them to spend upwards of 30 minutes discussing it.

• 47:59Speaker 03

  That's a really good idea, Pablo, if someone were to do that.

• 48:15Speaker 05

  Even though it sounds, Jessica, like Notre Dame's new hotbed is Charlotte, North Carolina. But back in the old days, it was-

• 48:21Speaker 03

  They recruit nationally, yeah.

• 48:23Speaker 05

  Yeah, so does Miami. They just do it a little better.

• 48:25Speaker 03

  But one of them's not a playoff team.

• 48:30Speaker 05

  Who's the next game on the calendar for both of us?

• 48:32Speaker 03

  Each other. See you there, idiot.

• 48:34Pablo Torre?

  Oh, boy. All right, so, so, at the end of every episode of Pablo, Torre finds out-

• 48:40Speaker 05

  You don't even live in Miami anymore.

• 48:42Pablo Torre?

  We've just been-

• 48:42Speaker 03

  I know, I don't want to go.

• 48:43Pablo Torre?

  Hijacked perpetually by the ongoing feud between Notre Dame and Miami.

• 48:47Speaker 03

  I was just there for the Orange Bowl. I don't need to go back.

• 48:50Speaker 05

  No one cares where your travel happens. We're moving on. We've moved on.

• 48:53Pablo Torre?

  We end by saying what it is we found out today.

• 48:56Speaker 05

  Oh.

• 48:57Pablo Torre?

  Jess, what did you find out today after this journey into the profane heart of this sport that you love and also Kevin's dream?

• 49:12Speaker 03

  I found out that Daniel Ricciardo was saying the C-word, not [BLEEP]. Because in my notes, I had written down [BLEEP], but he was saying a different C-word, so.

• 49:22Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 49:23Speaker 03

  It was a good thing to clarify.

• 49:24Speaker 05

  I learned, great nugget, I learned that Jessica's never met an Australian. Because there's no way, there's no way you didn't know that they overuse the C-word.

• 49:37Speaker 03

  I was just giving him the benefit of the doubt. I was like, he was saying penises there. Like, it wasn't the super Aussie C-word that we can't say on camera.

• 49:47Pablo Torre?

  What I found out today is that Jess Matana's grandma is more than qualified to be the through line through this episode as either an F1 driver or a caller into Paul Finebaum's radio show. Jessica, holy [BLEEP].

• 50:03Speaker 04

  I got the most gorgeous roses. I don't think I ever got that many roses in my whole life, certainly not from your lovely grandfather, God may his soul rest in peace. Thank you. Oh, my God. They are beautiful. I'm flabbergasted. I mean, holy [BLEEP]. I don't know what it's for, but I love you for it. Thank you. You've made my day. I mean, they are gorgeous. I mean, holy crap. Well, I will talk to you later. You're probably working, whatever. And I hope you got your oranges. I never, I didn't hear whether you

• 50:47Speaker 04

  got the damn oranges or not. So when you get a chance, you can give me a call back. I'm sitting here looking at those roses and I cannot believe what the hell you did. Holy [BLEEP]. They're gorgeous and I'm gonna sit and look at them all damn day today. Never had so many roses in my whole life. Eighty-five years, holy [BLEEP]. Okay, dear. Thank you. Love you. Talk to you later. Bye.

• 51:16Speaker 05

  Beautiful. Beautiful voicemail.

• 51:19Speaker 03

  Speaking of the orange bowl, I did get the oranges. So just to close the loop on that.

• 51:22Pablo Torre?

  Wow, there it is.

• 51:23Speaker 05

  Where, where does your grandmother live? Illinois?

• 51:26Speaker 03

  Chicago, if you can't tell.

• 51:28Speaker 05

  Chicago, Chicago suburbs, Skokie?

• 51:29Pablo Torre?

  Chicago.

• 51:30Speaker 03

  The city, yeah.

• 51:31Speaker 05

  Oh, wow. Where in the city?

• 51:32Speaker 03

  Do you want me to dox my grandma?

• 51:47Pablo Torre?

  Pablo Torre Finds Out is produced by Walter Abaroma, Ryan Cortez, Sam Daywig, Juan Galindo, Patrick Kim, Neely Lohman, Rob McCray, Rachel Miller Howard, Carl Scott, Matt Sullivan, Claire Taylor, Chris Tumanello, and Juliet Warren. Our studio engineering by RG Systems. Our sound design by NGW Post. Our theme song, as always, is by John Bravo. We will talk to you next time.

• 52:29Pablo Torre?

  It's payback time when you earn cash back on everyday purchases. Activate and earn 5% cash back at different categories each quarter on up to $1,500 in purchases. That's 5% cash back at different places each quarter, like grocery stores, on gas, and at restaurants. It pays to discover. Terms apply. See discover.com/five for details. Investing with Schwab is like spending a Saturday at a great farmer's market. You can fill your reusable tote with a bit of everything. Maybe you go for some free-range self-directed investing, or perhaps you pick up a few farm-fresh trades while you peruse. You can even get help from a dedicated advisor. That's full-service wealth management. Mix, match, and change your mind whenever you want.

• 53:12Pablo Torre?

  Because at Schwab, you can invest your way. No matter your goals or appetite for investing, Schwab has everything you need, all in one place. Visit schwab.com to learn more. At Humana, our Medicare Advantage plans are easy to understand and easy on your wallet, like offering more benefits than you'd get from original Medicare alone, and including dental, vision, and hearing coverage in every plan. And the best part is, every plan has a $0 or low monthly plan premium, which makes it easier to save, too. So this Medicare planning season, plan well with Humana. Learn more at gethumana.com. Humana is a Medicare Advantage, HMO, and PPO organization with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.