Your mental state manifests physically! How your body impacts your brain

Do you notice your body telling you when your brain is struggling? We’re headed back to this year’s Happy Place Festival in Gunnersbury Park, where loads of our guest speakers took to the Talk Stage to talk about the power of the mind-body connection... In this episode – - Breath and mindset coach Richie Norton explores the mind-body connection and how you can always start over with your physical and mental health -Broadcaster Julia Bradbury explains how nature has a very real impact on how healthy our bodies are, and how she approached her cancer diagnosis -Rizzle Kicks Jordan Stephens and therapist Donna Lancaster team up to talk about the groundbreaking physical effect one of Donna’s retreats had on Jordan’s body -Midlife wellness author Liz Earle talks through the best immunity-boosting morning routine -Olympian Dame Kelly Holmes chats about how to set (and stick to!) physical goals that will influence your mind too Get your tickets for the Happy Place Festival in Tatton Park 2025 here happyplacefestival.com! If you liked this episode of Happy Place, you might also like: Seasons will change, so will you https://pod.fo/e/2efec8 Tell self-limiting beliefs to bugger off https://pod.fo/e/263ecb How to stick two fingers up to beauty standards https://pod.fo/e/24cb47 Child on the line is a three-part documentary podcast series celebrating the Volunteer Counsellors of Childline, and the brave children & young people who contact the helpline service. Listen here: https://www.childonthelinepodcast.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Hi, I'm Natalie Dormer and I'm proud to be an ambassador for Childline. This year, Childline turns 40. To mark it, I've made Child on the Line, a three-part documentary podcast. We hear why children needed a helpline in 1986, how it was built against the odds and the challenges children face today, from abuse and mental health to social media and AI. Search Child on the Line and listen wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:29Fearne Cotton?

  Hello and a massive welcome to Happy Place with me, Fern Cotton. Today, a real treat. We're reliving last month's Happy Place Festival at Gunnersbury Park.

• 0:37Speaker 02

  All the people in my life were here complaining about having bad backs. A massive part of that is us suppressing how we feel.

• 0:44Speaker 03

  We are done with the time of treating cancer. We are now treating the people. It is the whole person approach.

• 0:51Speaker 02

  The biggest indicator that I'm doing too much is that I just get real stress in my right shoulder.

• 0:56Speaker 04

  I feel like something's happening in my body and all of a sudden I feel like my mind is opening up to something else.

• 1:03Speaker 05

  Even our melatonin. So it might sound a bit weird, but if you want to sleep better at night, get out first thing in the morning.

• 1:09Speaker 06

  So then you're training the brain to still keep fit and the body.

• 1:13Fearne Cotton?

  Now, if you weren't at our festival this year, let me set the scene. It's the hottest weekend ever. The sky is blue, like the brightest blue you've ever seen. There's not a cloud in the sky. The grass is scorched. Everybody's got their arms out. They're having a lovely time in the sunshine. The atmosphere is beautiful. It's calm and peaceful, yet also, in the most peculiar way, absolutely electrifying. It felt like we were actually beaming up happiness from Gunnersbury Park into the ether. Across each day, the talk stage hosted loads of different speakers. And this year, there was a particular focus on building healthy, resilient bodies and the way our mental state will often manifest physically.

• 1:57Fearne Cotton?

  Our talk stage host is the gorgeous Katie Hill. So she'll introduce everyone as we go along. But you're going to hear about the mind-body connection from the brilliant Richie Norton, my good pal. And the power of being out in nature from Julia Bradbury, aka The Bradders. Then Jordan Stephens and Donna Lancaster, who I class as happy place family, are teaming up to talk about the groundbreaking physical effect one of Donna's retreats had on Jordan's body. Liz Earl is talking us through her immunity boosting morning routine and Kelly Holmes is chatting about how she approaches physical goals. What a line up.

• 2:37Speaker 07

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• 3:12Speaker 09

  I've got big news. I switched to Verizon and got the new iPhone 18 Pro. Shh. I can keep my old phone and I also get the latest iPhone every year. Shh, anything else? Verizon let me choose Apple Watch Series 12 or iPad on them. Everybody listen up. Shh. Switch to Verizon and get the new iPhone 18 Pro now. No trade-in needed and the latest iPhone every year with Simplicity Plan. Plus, choose Apple Watch Series 12 or iPad on us. Simplicity Plan with Simplicity Pro required. Plan and device payment purchase are separate agreements with separate terms. Service plan for Watch or iPad required. Additional terms apply for all offers.

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• 4:16Fearne Cotton?

  Here we go, this is the show.

• 4:39Speaker 11

  Everybody, welcome back, welcome back. Well done for staying in the shade. I actually feel like a happy place 2025. If there was an ice bath challenge, quite welcome, right? No other time of year, I'm not interested, but today, possibly. But now it's time for a very, very special talk and one that is so, so needed. So please give a huge happy place welcome, talking all things male mental health, the wonderful Richie Norton and Mark Whittle.

• 5:12Speaker 04

  I had this rugby career that was my only mission. I had no plan B. I was the alpha male. I was the bloke that wasn't going to talk about his feelings. I just wanted to lift weights, be buff and smash people on a rugby pitch. And eventually I'd be a Sky TV pundit. It was all written. And unfortunately, that came crashing down. I had this moment where I picked up a few injuries because I wasn't really taking it seriously enough. I was just winging it. I was just relying on skill and grit and a lot of deep rooted anger that I hadn't addressed. But for me, rugby was an outlet for all my frustrations. But what I'm getting at is when I started to lean into the struggles, the fear, the

• 5:55Speaker 04

  challenges, the things that I found were really hard, that were initially like an obstacle that I could not get past. That's when I did my biggest growth. That's when I felt like I was getting stronger. That's where I felt I was doing the reps to become more resilient, to be able to reach that next level. But this was a mission over a few years. So if I break down in a very short window of time, there was a fallout, there was a lack of identity, there was no plan B, felt really lost, ate all the food I could find, drank all the drink I could drink, didn't treat my health very respectfully. And I paid the price, ended up in hospital, ill from the inside out. But on the outside, I was kind of pulling it off. I was faking it. On the, on the front, it looked like I

• 6:40Speaker 04

  had my shit together, but I didn't. And so many of us go through this of just like, no one understands. No one gets where I'm at.

• 6:49Speaker 04

  And then we don't take action, we suffer in silence, you've heard that before. We suppress all these emotions, we suppress all these feelings, and I was the perfect example of that. Because I didn't think anyone would be able to understand, and also I'd have to accept that I'm a bit vulnerable and I'm not together. A few years later, I met an amazing yoga teacher, who kind of got where I was at, happened to be a female yoga teacher, who I was really attracted to. I just listened to her every word, but the point was, over time, I found someone who understood me, who could speak to me in a way that I could relate. And I realised that's all I needed, I just needed someone to understand and hold space for me for a second.

• 7:29Speaker 04

  And that took me on this road of working on my body again. I had these amazing experiences at the end of a yoga class where breathwork took me to this place of light. I felt like I was floating off the mat, I forgot, completely forgot where I was. And that night, I had the best night's sleep of my life. I thought, oh, there's stuff in that, I might give that another go. I wonder if that yoga teacher's teaching on a Thursday? And I delve a bit deeper, and then eventually I met another guy who was a yoga teacher, who also did Brazilian martial arts, thought that was cool, he was ripped. And he was also a surfer, thought that's cool. And I realised that I just hadn't found my people yet. I hadn't been able to sort of chat with the right people who would get where I was at that moment in time. And it gave me this lifeline of going, I feel seen, I feel like something's happening in my body.

• 8:12Speaker 04

  And all of a sudden, I feel like my mind is opening up to something else, rather than just staying in what I thought was everything. Because we create this illusion that our existence right now, our identity, is all that we have, and it can't change, it can't begin again. I would say I've probably begun again three times now, I've had real fallouts of like, I'm not happy here, something's not right. But because I've done it once, I know I could do it again. And so the reason I share that, without going into too much detail, because I travelled the world, I went and practised with all these gurus and... Buddhist monks and ninja surfers. I was just like trying to absorb as much information as possible, doing that deeper work because it started with me.

• 8:56Speaker 04

  There was no one that was going to rescue me. There's no one that's going to do the work for you. There's no one that's going to hold your hand and make you do every single step. You have to want to do it inside of you first. And a lot of you will be able to relate to going, actually, I know what that feels like, and maybe I didn't take the action I should. So my point there is, take that step, take that leap. You've got nothing to lose. It's like you've got your whole life ahead of you. If something doesn't feel right, listen. If something kind of like deep inside of you needs to change and you know something's just not quite sitting right, listen, take action. Because you can constantly steer your life down this path of just exploring new things

• 9:39Speaker 04

  all the time and constantly growing, learning lessons. Sometimes they might feel like a bit of a roadblock. That wasn't for me, but I bet you're not where you began. And that's what I've been doing for the last 10 years. So I now trained in breath work, I train in meditation, I learnt how to move better. I started working on my training in a more smart, I guess more smart approach of keeping my body strong, not just because I want to look a certain way, it's because if we don't take care of our bodies, what's the point? So I've got massive goals. They keep getting bigger and bigger because I realise I'm capable of more and more, the more I push myself to that edge, and the more lessons I learn doing that, the more capable I'm feeling.

• 10:21Speaker 04

  So I hope that kind of excites you about, do you know, I need to take that leap, there is something I need to take action with, because it's just a choice. It's a decision that you're capable of more, that you want to thrive, you don't just want to exist. Sometimes that means taking some bigger leaps, taking some bigger risks, but I promise you it's worth it.

• 10:43Speaker 11

  I am very, very excited to welcome our next guest. She's an all-round beautiful human being, which is what you know, which is why you're all here. She's the queen of resilience, she's a TV presenter, she's a passionate outdoor adventurer. Ladies and gents, please give it up for the unique Julia Bradbury.

• 11:01Speaker 03

  Listen, when I was in LA chasing George Clooney down red carpets, I wasn't thinking about hugging trees, let me tell you. But it is something that has stuck with me for life and now it's become my life. You know, Countryfile, it turned into my work, turned into my walking series, it's become my books. And even when I'm doing my health and wellness books, and Hack Yourself Healthy, my next book is all about personalised medicine. I've done blood biopsies, I've done full-body MRIs, I've done cryo, I've been to Antarctica and jumped in the water there to see what happens to the body when you know cold water exposure. All of these things, at the end of the day, still the most important thing is the nature. Still, it's that reconnection with nature. And I did a really interesting study in the new book with some people for the environment

• 11:45Speaker 03

  for human health. They work out at the University of Exeter, these incredible professors, and this is what they do, they work out how important it is for us all to spend time outside in nature and what it does for us, and what it does for the NHS, for example. Now, I spend, I force myself to spend time outside, so I take what are called nature snacks. I stand up from my desk very regularly, I go outside, I walk the dog, or, you know, I hug my trees, I do my grounding, I do my little bit of exercise outside, and I do that at really regular intervals throughout the day. My productivity goes up, I feel happier, my vision is better. I'm saving the NHS £1,700 a year by doing that, according to these professors. We did a mathematical equation.

• 12:29Speaker 03

  If everybody in England did what I did, and that's not me being outside all day, this is just taking these enforced nature snacks, if you will, how much, and I'll give you a clue, it's billions, how many billions do you think we could all save the NHS if everybody did Julia-type nature snacks? Just shout out some figures. 50 billion? 60 billion? 90 billion? Okay, I'll tell you, it's £81 billion. Because people who spend time outside, you're reducing your blood pressure, you're improving your cardiovascular health, your nervous system, something that not a lot of us talk about when it comes to health is stress and what that does to your body. Well, stress

• 13:11Speaker 03

  is adrenaline cortisol. If that is coursing through your body all the time, that is like somebody, one of the doctors that tested me, I had quite a high cortisol. This was immediately after my breast cancer, so perhaps not surprising. But she went, ah, she was American, she went, you're like being chased by a tiger like all day. We need to work on that.

• 13:31Speaker 11

  Wow.

• 13:31Speaker 03

  And that's what stress does for you.

• 13:33Speaker 11

  Yeah.

• 13:34Speaker 03

  It's that constant state of hmm.

• 13:36Speaker 11

  Yeah.

• 13:37Speaker 03

  Sachin Panda gives a great hack in the new book. He's a world famous circadian rhythm expert. He says, don't eat within the first hour of waking up. The reason being, your cortisol rises very high in the morning because it's your body getting ready for the day ahead. That's our natural physiology.

• 13:58Speaker 11

  Wake up.

• 13:58Speaker 03

  That's what we're doing, is wake up. So food and cortisol don't go that well together. You're busy producing your cortisol, you're not so good at the digestion and the insulin response at that time, which is why he says, wait an hour and then eat. Now, how many people do you know who say, I'm really exercising really hard and I'm doing this and doing that and I can't lose any weight?

• 14:18Speaker 11

  Wow.

• 14:19Speaker 03

  They've probably got a lot of cortisol going on in their body, which is why the meditation and the nature and calm is such an important part of it.

• 14:27Speaker 11

  That's so interesting because I had a lymphatic drainage massage the other day.

• 14:30Speaker 03

  Incredible.

• 14:31Speaker 11

  And he was like, and then he said to me, oh yeah, people do this for weight loss. I'm like, no, no, I just want to feel amazing.

• 14:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:36Speaker 11

  But I had no idea because obviously if your system's not working like it should, it's going to have a knock on to everything around it, isn't it? This book though, I know there was so much in it that was about walking and nature and all of that stuff, but I know it was also a very deep dive on some very personal stuff.

• 14:53Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 14:53Speaker 11

  That you wanted to share, surviving breast cancer, your IVF journey. How was that feeling like you were putting that out into the world?

• 15:01Speaker 03

  So, I mean, my breast cancer diagnosis was quite public and it was everywhere and it was in all the papers. But I don't talk about my breast cancer because I want sympathy and I don't want people to think, oh, well, she's special or she's different. You know, or she's a celebrity. What difference is her breast cancer? I did it, A, because I wanted people to see it's absolutely fine to be frightened and petrified because I was. And it was a really terrifying moment in my life. And also, I've learned some amazing things about cancer whilst I've been researching. I've met an incredible doctor called Dr. Nisha Winters and I've actually just come back from a retreat with her and her team. And she's written a brilliant book that I would recommend to everybody, cancer or not, called The Metabolic Approach to Cancer. And it's just about to come out, it's 10th anniversary edition.

• 15:44Speaker 03

  And her approach, and this is echoed also in the new book by Dr. William Lee, who's an amazing doctor. Who's written Eat to Beat Disease, lots of New York bestsellers. But he's a very well-respected scientist and doctor in America that's had a direct impact on more than 40 medical procedures. And he and Nisha both share this approach that we are done with the time of treating cancer. We are now treating the people. It is the human, it is the whole person approach. So it's not cancer in Julia, it's Julia's terrain, her body and what the cancer's doing within her. And what can we do to support her and the body in order to get through this cancer diagnosis? So he doesn't like that whole, the battle of cancer and kill the cancer cells and cut them out.

• 16:28Speaker 03

  And he really approves of oncologists taking a holistic view. And we're not there yet with the NHS. You talk to your oncologist and say, what should I eat? And they go, I don't know.

• 16:39Speaker 11

  Yeah, eat what you like.

• 16:40Speaker 03

  Whatever you like. And there are several reasons legally they can't tell you because they're not trained. And the NHS isn't set up that way. So it really is up to us now to become the CEOs of our own body and our own health and to start asking these questions. And William Lee's pretty brutal in the book. He says, if your oncologist isn't asking you about your gut health. Your microbiome, then you probably need a new oncologist. Or teach your oncologist about the microbiome. And just a quick case study from him. His mum was diagnosed with endometrial cancer in her 80s. She was treated, it came back a year later, stage four, and the doctors said, take her on a cruise, she's gonna die. He said, you do know what I do, I'm a scientist. So he took her under his wing. He fixed her gut, so she did a stool test. He saw where the gut bacteria were.

• 17:24Speaker 03

  He fixed the gut with supplements and with food. And then he gave her three courses of immunotherapy. And that was 10 years ago and she's 90 and she's still here. And he's done that with dozens of people.

• 17:35Speaker 11

  Wow.

• 17:36Speaker 03

  And he said, this is the cure for cancer. This is what it looks like and we're there now.

• 17:42Speaker 11

  Wow, I think what's tough as well is that obviously healthcare, the healthcare system here is so stretched and it's so reactionary, right? But I, you know, I remember discovering a doctor when I lived in America and he was incredible. He was proactive, like you'd go every six months and have like an body MOT. And we do it for our cars, but we don't do it for us. We just wait till something goes wrong. Well, you wouldn't just keep driving your car and then go, oh, the wheel's about to fall off.

• 18:06Speaker 03

  Exactly. And I think everybody here at the Happy Place, you are obviously all open minded, progressive. And that's why you're here. You're here to learn and you're here to grow and we're all here to progress ourselves. And it is, it's, it is pretty strange that people, what people will spend money on. And then you say, I'd probably do some blood tests there and they go, oh, no, I can't, I can't afford that. And then you deep dive with some people and you say, do you drink coffee? Do you have a Netflix subscription? Do you smoke?

• 18:33Speaker 11

  Do you dye your hair?

• 18:34Speaker 03

  Do you dye your hair? And you look at, you know, what you spend your money on. And in the book, Oliver Berkman, who's another great author, he wrote the book 4000 Weeks. Who's come across that book? 4000 Weeks is what we all have on planet earth if we're lucky and we live a long, healthy life. And you get a chart with the book. And the first thing you do when you're my age is you open up the chart and you cross out the first half of the chart because it's gone.

• 18:56Speaker 11

  Absolutely.

• 18:57Speaker 03

  And then you look and you go, oh. So it equals about 80 summer holidays. That's our lives.

• 19:04Speaker 11

  Wow, of course it is. I mean, that makes total sense.

• 19:06Speaker 03

  Total sense.

• 19:07Speaker 11

  Yeah.

• 19:07Speaker 03

  But when you see it, and Oliver Berkman's written a brilliant piece in the book, which is how do we make time to prioritize our health? What do we sacrifice in order to give our health what it deserves? And that is time and it's your emotion and it's taking care of yourself. And sometimes it does mean throwing some money at it as well.

• 19:28Speaker 11

  I'm very excited about our next guest, everyone. Please, he's gonna be the hottest man in the room, in all ways. Please, welcome to the stage, Jordan Stevenson, Donna Lancaster.

• 19:41Speaker 02

  The reason I wrote about masculinity was because I was going through heartbreak. That's genuinely, that is what this entirety of this book is about, is journeying through that heartbreak. And actually, just as a bit of trivia, Donna's name is the only real name in the book, outside of my own. And I use her full name because I genuinely want people to Google Donna and find out more about her.

• 19:58Speaker 11

  Oh, what a delight.

• 19:59Speaker 12

  What about this man, huh?

• 20:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, but it's real though, because I remember that feeling of not understanding how to feel, or even understanding that emotion is a physical reality.

• 20:09Speaker 11

  And then was it like someone had switched the light on and gone, "Wow"?

• 20:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, can you explain The Bridge a bit?

• 20:14Speaker 12

  The Bridge was a residential programme, and it was, again, I can't remember, I think it was five nights or something like that, and five nights and days. You basically go away, on a retreat, away from your everyday life, and you are turning towards the places inside you that ache and hurt. So it's like a space for grieving all of the things that have hurt you. Well, not all of them, otherwise you'd need more than five days for most people.

• 20:40Speaker 11

  Can I just move in?

• 20:41Speaker 12

  Yeah, exactly. But it was really, the important thing about the retreat was a space where people could switch off, no gadgets, no distractions, and just go inside, you know? So it was a lot of somatic work, working with the body, because grief lives in the body, but with the intention of what I call clearing the debris from your heart and your soul. So it was really like, it's like, you know, bringing people back to life.

• 21:04Speaker 11

  Yeah.

• 21:05Speaker 12

  Because so many people are carrying a heavy burden, be it depression, anxiety, whatever it might be, or just a low-level sadness.

• 21:13Speaker 11

  Yeah.

• 21:13Speaker 12

  And so it's really helping kind of clear, so people feel lighter, life is short, we wanna enjoy, you know?

• 21:19Speaker 11

  Talking to Julia Bradbury about the impact that your emotional state has on your physicality. It's like, it's, everything is, of course, your whole body is just connected like that. Like, if there's anyone sat out there thinking, "Oh, I feel like I need some therapy, but I'm not sure", like, how do you know the moment? Is there, when is that nudge so loud that you have no choice but to listen?

• 21:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:41Speaker 11

  Wanna go?

• 21:42Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, for me, genuinely, the biggest indicator that I'm doing too much is that I just get real stress in my right shoulder. Like, I genuinely have one specific place that the second that pings, I'm like, right.

• 21:55Speaker 11

  Here we go.

• 21:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, I need to just make sure I start taking, you know, sleeping better. Like, the funny thing is as well, many of the things that I've been talking about recently are things I learnt at the bridge. This is why it's so important to me that Donna's here, I talk about the six tent poles, something I learnt in the bridge. Whenever I feel off kilter, if that stress response is happening, I look at these six things in life. And if one of them's out of whack, I can work on it. So it's, and you have to correct me if I get these wrong, so it's uh.

• 22:21Speaker 11

  You get detention if you get them wrong.

• 22:24Speaker 02

  Sleep, nutrition, exercise, community and solitude in equal measure, because there's a lot of people who can't be alone. And there's a lot of people who spend too much time alone, you have to try and balance the two, that was a big part of the bridge. Nature.

• 22:38Speaker 12

  And animals.

• 22:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, nature and animals, being around nature and animals, and creativity.

• 22:42Speaker 12

  And play.

• 22:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, creativity and play with no outcome of it. And, you know, it's really hard for us as humans, especially under this pressure, to have all of those balanced. But I feel it, and on the bridge, I actually did get, I did manage to have a trauma response, which is good, because we're leading towards that. And it was my, under my, it's on my knee, under my right patella, was, like, my leg started shaking and I thought, all the people in my life, for me, again, especially men, who are here complaining about having bad backs, about their shoulders hurting, dodgy knees, like, everything's a stress, a strain. Sure, some of that will be because of physical demand, but a massive part of that, and Gabor Maté says this too, is us suppressing how we feel.

• 23:22Speaker 11

  Yeah, and you're just carrying it around. So now when the shoulder goes, you lean into those things and shift things in your life to make sure it's like.

• 23:29Speaker 02

  Well, it's an indicator, you know, I think, would you agree?

• 23:33Speaker 12

  Yeah, for sure. I mean, and some people feel stuff in their body, but I think for all of us, it's that when we look at what we are using to avoid. Being in our, present to our lives, you know, whether that's gadgets, whether that's drink, whether that's drug, you know, whatever it might be. But I think looking at our relationships to substances and behaviours that maybe we're a little bit too keen on the old scroll or whatever it might be. And I think that's usually, yeah. But it's often avoiding something underneath, you know. Yeah. And for me, I think with the, you know, like in my own story, it really was a situation for myself after having all these years of

• 24:15Speaker 12

  sort of a low level depression, like I was kind of a functioning depressive. When was this? Oh, in my, um, probably from my teens to my mid thirties. Okay. A long time. And then, but then when I turned thirty, I had a full breakdown and it was like the universe pulled the rug from under me. Because I was a warrior. I could keep going, going, going. And it was almost like the universe looked at me and went, oh bless her. Yeah. She's gonna waste another ten years if we don't. So it was like, boom, I started having panic attacks. I'd never had a panic attack in my life. I was a warrior. And it's like the warrior fell down and this wounded, vulnerable version of myself stood up.

• 24:56Speaker 12

  And I was like, okay, I've got to do something about this. I've got kids. No one's gonna save you, Donna. You've got to save your own life. Yeah. And that was the start of me healing and then also training to do the work. And you talk a lot about reclaiming joy. I mean, this is the thing is that people, you know, when we're born and we're young children, we are so joyful. We're so playful. I've got three grandsons and they're all like curious and into stuff and so full of life and joy. And then life happens, doesn't it? And suddenly we wake up one day and life has become a sort of serious business. And we lose connection to that sort of innocent joy in us. And then what?

• 25:38Speaker 12

  What we do, if we do healing on that, if we turn towards the places inside us that are hurting, that have been created through life, through life experiences, is we reclaim the innocence. So we move, you know, when you're wounded, you can become childish rather than childlike. So you, you know, I was like, that was reactive, always triggered, like angry, you know, everyone, it was just everybody else's fault blaming. And then when I actually turned and lovingly and compassionately started to do my inner work, I came back to that childlike girl, full of wonder, full of awe, full of joy.

• 26:21Speaker 12

  And so it was from childish to childlike, from joyless to joyful.

• 26:25Speaker 13

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• 27:18Speaker 10

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• 27:55Speaker 09

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• 28:23Fearne Cotton?

  Okay, back to the festival with Liz Earle and Kelly Himes.

• 28:27Speaker 11

  I'm so excited to welcome our next guest on to the stage. She really needs no introduction. She's been a staple in all of our lives for so long. She is our guru when it comes to all things wellness, and I'm so excited for this chat about how we can all have a better second half. Please, ladies and gents, give a huge, happy place welcome to Liz Earle. What a challenge I saw on there, which was wonderful.

• 28:53Speaker 05

  Oh my gosh, yeah, that was the four-day challenge. So I don't know if anybody followed that, but we should...

• 28:58Speaker 11

  Anyone do the challenge?

• 28:59Speaker 05

  We should actually be sitting here without our shoes and socks on.

• 29:02Speaker 11

  Yeah.

• 29:02Speaker 05

  You know, literally, you've got all this grass here. So it's been shown that if we are connected to nature physically, so here we've got all this grass, so no excuse, take your shoes off. I don't think anyone's wearing socks. Any guys in socks and sandals? No, oh, one in the front. Okay, sorry, sir, socks are gonna have to come off. Then you can stand, and that the earth emits negative ions, and there's this energy that we physically connect with. And if, that probably some people sounds a bit woo, but it has actually been shown scientifically to reduce inflammation within the body and speed wound healing. And if you look at animals when they're sick, they'll just go and lie. They'll go and lie down on the ground. And we've lost this connection with the earth.

• 29:45Speaker 05

  We're in plastic sole trainers, even my lovely Birkeys. You know, they're not connecting me to the ground. And actually, early in the morning is really key, because the other part of my challenge was to get outside within 30 minutes of waking up.

• 29:57Speaker 11

  Why is that important?

• 29:58Speaker 05

  That is important because what's happening with low-level UV light is it's sending signals through the receptors in the eye, in our retinal cells that connect to our brain, and it starts the hormonal cascade. So it starts something called the circadian rhythm. And that's to do with everything from hormone production to stress management, our cortisol, even our melatonin. So it might sound a bit weird, but if you want to sleep better at night... Get out first thing in the morning because that's starting the production later for your melatonin that will help you sleep better. So within 30 minutes of waking, ideally before you put your phone on, because that blue light is not so good. We need this broad spectrum UV light. We've all become a bit light phobic, haven't we?

• 30:42Speaker 05

  A bit sun phobic, a bit sun shy. But first thing in the morning, if you can't physically get outside, open a window.

• 30:49Speaker 11

  I love that. Just quickly talk us, we've got obviously, wake up and stand on the ground and that you look at the sky.

• 30:54Speaker 05

  Look outside. What else did I have?

• 30:56Speaker 11

  Fascinated by your morning routine.

• 30:58Speaker 05

  I do. I've written my whole routine in here because I get asked all the time, you know, exactly what do you do?

• 31:04Speaker 11

  What time?

• 31:05Speaker 05

  Then what?

• 31:06Speaker 11

  What time does your alarm go off?

• 31:07Speaker 05

  Well, it depends. I try not to wait to set an alarm. Actually, my alarm goes off at night. My alarm reminds me when I need to go to bed. It really protects my sleep. So my alarm will go off at about 10 o'clock at night and it'll say, listen, you know, you really need to be winding down and in bed by now. Doesn't always happen, but you know, that's, that's for me. So I tend to wake up naturally around 6:30, 7.

• 31:28Speaker 11

  It's great at this time of year as well.

• 31:30Speaker 05

  Anybody else waking up early at this time of year?

• 31:32Speaker 11

  The sun, it's wonderful.

• 31:33Speaker 05

  And also that's biological. We actually, they now know that we need a little bit less sleep in the, in the summer. It's why animals hibernate in the winter because they need more sleep. We need more sleep, you know, we're more likely to have longer sleep sessions in the winter.

• 31:46Speaker 11

  I didn't know that. We don't need as much sleep in the summer.

• 31:48Speaker 05

  No, so don't worry about it. I, I was worrying about it. I was thinking, I've only had five and a half hours sleep and I should be getting like seven or eight. But actually I feel fine. You know, you need to be guided by how you feel, obviously.

• 31:58Speaker 11

  And if you get to see the sunrise, it's such a bonus, isn't it?

• 32:01Speaker 05

  No, but that's like 4:30.

• 32:03Speaker 11

  I, I did a radio show and I had a 3:30 alarm and that was the one joy.

• 32:07Speaker 05

  Oh, that is the one benefit. But we get nice sunsets. So sunrise and sunset, anytime the sky is red, we need to be out there looking at it. You've probably heard that red light is really good.

• 32:17Speaker 11

  Yeah.

• 32:18Speaker 05

  And you can buy like infrared saunas and red light panels. And that's because it's a frequency of light. But lowers inflammation, so again, coming back to inflammation and cell health. And it also helps with our hormone balance and it just helps improve skin and, you know, it helps with collagen synthesis, all sorts of things. So we get that free whenever we see it in the sky. And they used to say, didn't they, red sky at night, shepherd's delight. You know, that is, if you see the sunset, then definitely it's a good thing. Last night, there was a brilliant red sky, so I just kind of went out and stood in it and I was grateful. Gorgeous, I love that so much. Thank you, that's a red sky, I love it. Yeah. So that's really important. So tongue scraping. Yeah, why is that important? Okay, so if you get up in the morning and you look in the mirror, stick your tongue

• 33:02Speaker 05

  out, eh, and it's all kind of white and fuzzy, that is the coating of dead cells and bacteria, stuff the body doesn't want, it chucks it out. Oh, overnight it's done that. Overnight it's done it. So we know, we usually go to bed with a pink tongue and you can tell if you've had a heavy night, if you've been on the old Chardonnay the night before, you will probably... Don't look at me!

• 33:25Speaker 05

  The Chardonnay, then you will have a, possibly, a white-coated tongue. And what you don't really want to be doing is re-ingesting that, because your body's worked quite hard to get rid of it. So a tongue scraper, just one simple, swoop, down the sink, job done. And then you're actually helping the body to eliminate. So I do that first thing and then I drink two large glasses of electrolytes. Okay. So electrolytes, so if you forget to drink water during the day, I mean, I know we all need to be drinking a lot more fluid, especially on a day like today, water in itself is not necessarily hydrating. Water finds it more easily absorbed in the cells if it's bound with trace minerals.

• 34:07Speaker 05

  So you can actually end up being dehydrated if you overload just with water and that there's a whole condition associated with that, because we dilute the minerals in the body. So you could have a little pinch of rock salt or a little pinch of sea salt. I keep a little grinder of sea salt in my bathroom and I just put that in my filtered water jug first thing in the morning. And having two large glasses, especially at this time of year, is really important because overnight, obviously, we're not drinking. During the day, we take sips and we're replenishing our water. Overnight, that doesn't happen, so we wake up dehydrated. If you factor into that the weather... If you factor into it, menopausal hot flushes potentially, vasomotor symptoms, maybe a night of passion if you're lucky, you know, so there's all these reasons why we might be a bit more dehydrated.

• 34:52Speaker 11

  Goodness, I didn't think we were going there. I didn't see that one coming, but I'll go there.

• 34:57Speaker 05

  So there's lots of reasons why, first thing in the morning, before your cup of coffee, coffee is also a good thing, by the way, coffee drinkers live longer.

• 35:05Speaker 11

  I've written that down, coffee drinkers live longer. I saw it on your Instagram this week and I was like, praise the Lord, finally.

• 35:12Speaker 05

  It's a good thing, but don't have it first thing. It does tend to give you a little micro cortisol spike, which is okay, we need that. Cortisol is, sometimes you think of it as the bad guy, too much, as you know, is bad. But first thing, it's what gives us our get up and go, it's what gets us up and starting the day, so you need a little bit. So I would say ideally wait half an hour before your first cup of coffee and those electrolytes, if you put them back first thing, I promise you, if you've not tried this before, you will have so much more energy and you can thank me later.

• 35:46Speaker 11

  Ladies and gents, we are so excited to have this beautiful human with us today. Please make some huge happy place noise for Dame Kelly Holmes.

• 35:58Speaker 11

  To have that amazing resilience, like the mental capabilities and the physical capabilities for both the military and, you know, being an incredible athlete, which do you think was tougher mentally and physically?

• 36:14Speaker 06

  In different ways, they were very tough. I was in a so-called man's world, which I'm getting away from because like we're globally 50% of the population, so we're saying we actually globally deserve to be here as much as men, so it's not the man's world, it's half ours.

• 36:29Speaker 11

  Right.

• 36:29Speaker 06

  It's half ours. So I've stopped all that now, but I was in an army where it was predominantly men who I worked for or worked with, and so it was tough in a way because as a woman, I always had to show myself a little bit more, especially being a, when I became a physical training instructor when I was 21, you know, you've got all these big guys, six foot tall.

• 36:50Speaker 11

  And that's what you did in the army?

• 36:51Speaker 06

  I was, yeah, I was actually a heavy goods vehicle driver.

• 36:55Speaker 06

  Look out, she's coming through. You know, I say if it was too late, it's like that opportunity came up, I went in and then I thought, well, then I can go to be a PTI rather than not bothering. So I became a physical training instructor.

• 37:07Speaker 11

  I love the strategy behind that though, like that's what it takes. You need to have that resilience and the go get and go, I'm gonna do that and that will pivot into that and amazing.

• 37:15Speaker 06

  Yeah, well, I've always, what do you do? Give up on things for yourself? So I just thought I'd go for it. Became a physical training instructor, loved it because I was beast in the guys like properly, like had all this.

• 37:26Speaker 11

  Never a bad feeling.

• 37:27Speaker 06

  Had all these powers, like, oh my God, this is amazing. But it taught me a lot about myself, leadership styles, improve my self-confidence, self-worth. And I became the person that I wanted to become as a soldier.

• 37:40Speaker 11

  Yeah.

• 37:40Speaker 06

  And it gave me a lot of discipline and resilience, like you say.

• 37:43Speaker 11

  Yeah.

• 37:43Speaker 06

  Athletics, very different when it's a goal, when there's an unknown, you're up against everybody else that wants to be number one. There's only one person who's number one in the world. You know, you get a lot of losses in every form of life, like whoever tells me that life goes up there, up there is lying.

• 37:59Speaker 11

  Yeah.

• 37:59Speaker 06

  Because no, everyone that's ever been successful and success can mean anything to you, has had a journey to get there. And I don't care who that is, they've had a journey unless they've been given it on a plate, billionaire, thank you very much, everyone's had a journey. I believe I've got a platform, a story, I hope to make changes to difference, but everyone out there has their own story, right?

• 38:21Speaker 11

  Yeah.

• 38:21Speaker 06

  And it's like the likes of us, we should be there to make you realise that life isn't all great.

• 38:28Speaker 11

  What I love with you, we're going to talk about how you keep sort of reinventing your journey, but just quickly touching on the Olympics. Because every time it's on, I say to my kids, no, but you don't get it. It's not that you've just got to be physically incredible. Your mindset, your body, everything has to come together for that, however many seconds it is, like the pressure of that, like how has that set you up for life? Visualization, all of that amazing stuff?

• 38:52Speaker 06

  On both sides of the coin, it's done two things. So one, achieving like the ultimate goal in my sport, being an Olympic champion is like literally the ultimate. Or you can win a medal, that's good because that might be your podium moment, or you can get in a team, that might be your podium moment. The thing is, set your own podium moment, what is where you want to get. So I always had that in my mind and I put mine right at the top and. You know, the thing is, the journey to get there, no one sees the upside of it. So in sport, you're probably telling Olympics comes and you'll see the highs and lows of the athlete, where the cheers are the cheers, right?

• 39:32Speaker 06

  But, the truth is, eighty percent of it is probably fighting to keep fit, going through the emotional turmoil, are you gonna be ready, injuries. You know, they're not waiting for you. They have a date in the diary that's set every four years, women's eight hundred metre final. They are not waiting for you to be ready. So you then, it's the mindset around getting yourself ready in time. I had seven years of injuries out of twelve years of performance with thirteen international medals. At Commonwealth, European, World, previous Olympics, I got a bronze. And that one.

• 40:12Speaker 06

  And everyone says, how do you go through injuries, not being able to walk, to winning a medal? Well, if you're into fitness, let me tell you, and it's, you know, I'm, all I say, I talk to you from lived experience, right, I'm not here to preach. I talk from lived experience. Um, what I realise is that if I wanna keep fit, or I've got a goal and something goes wrong, like I wanna do a run, I get injured a lot. I get a calf injury, let's say. People give up on themselves, they think, I can't train now, like I'm injured. All about from here, all the way up, here, and then there, that can still train. So as long as you're getting treatment, or looking after it, or recovering, or icing,

• 40:56Speaker 06

  or stretching, or whatever, wherever it is, you can still train. So then you're training the brain to still keep fit, and the body. Because actually, when you get back to fitness, you know the thing you were doing anyway, and that's how I treated it. An injury is a lesson that I've done either something not how it's done, I've pushed myself too hard, I then have to reset. And that's the hardest thing, the mind.

• 41:19Speaker 11

  Actually resting when you need to.

• 41:20Speaker 06

  But the mind saying it'll be okay, you know, and again, then it's about team of people around you. Elite level is slightly different, you've got great people around you, you know.

• 41:29Speaker 11

  I love as well the takeaway already for everybody, have the podium moments in your diary, right? It's not about winning a gold medal and standing on that podium. What is that podium moment for you right now in your life? That you can set as a huge goal for later in the year, for quarter four, whatever it is. And the next thing is motivation, because I think we can so easily let ourselves off the hook. You wake up and you're like, do you know what? I'm not really feeling it. Like, you can't do that with the Olympics, right?

• 41:55Speaker 06

  No, with the Olympics, you can do it in life.

• 41:57Speaker 11

  So what, share a sort of hack with everyone for kind of keeping motivated when you're kind of waking up going, eh, I'm not really feeling it.

• 42:04Speaker 06

  I think you said about goals, you know, like why? Why do you want to do something? Like, what started you on the journey? Or why in your heart or your body that you think, I want to do this? You've got to have a purpose. Like, people say why and purpose and ambition and dreams and goals. Have something, one of them. Because then that sets you on, well, how do I get there, right? It's like with your work, you know, you start a job, the expectations are there. You don't know the brand new job, but you find the way. And then suddenly, a year down the line, it's just natural, it's nature.

• 42:36Speaker 11

  Yeah.

• 42:37Speaker 06

  So, but in fitness and health, I think it's like a why? Like, why do you want to do this? What is it? Is it because of illness? Is it because you don't like the way you feel? Or your perception of how you look? Or, you know, are you getting ready for something? Or have you entered something that's a first time ever and the nerves are going and, you know, you've got a park run? It's 5K, just done the couch to 5K app. And then can you have the guts to go to a place where you're exposed because you did that on your own? Everyone else feels the same. Like, I'm telling you, it doesn't matter whether you win Olympic Games or you go to a park run. If it's your first time, their belly is going. But if you don't do it, you sit there and everyone else gets up and gets the feel good, you know, their endorphins, adrenaline.

• 43:21Speaker 06

  People forget that you matter as well. You know, we all go around life pleasing or appeasing someone, whether it's your partner, your loved one, your friends, family, you know, kids, colleagues, whatever. We all go around every day because life is like that. But when do you actually think, I matter too? And I think I started remembering that when my mum passed away in 2017. I was thinking. Oh my god, do you know what I mean? Like, I'm having all these feelings because I've had a lot of mental health problems. But I just thought to myself, well, but I'm not, I've got to live. If I, you know.

• 43:52Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 43:53Speaker 06

  We can go through life or we can live life.

• 43:56Fearne Cotton?

  We can go through life or we can live life. Yes, I love that Kelly. What a special woman Dame Kelly is. I always curtsey when I see Kelly. It's a must. Have all these chats made you think you want to be part of the action at Tatton Park when we do this all over again? This weekend on the 30th and 31st of August. I hope so. Tickets are available at happyplacefestival.com. Very simple. We're going to be back later this week with a celebration of this incredible summer of sport that we're having. And then next week with someone who I'm saying is national treasure status. It's going to be gorgeous. Until then, a massive thanks again to everyone who made our Gunnersbury Park Festival so special.

• 44:39Fearne Cotton?

  To the producers of this episode, Anushka Tate and Basil Oxtoby. And to you, look after yourselves babes.

• 45:16Speaker 14

  At Lowe's, this Veterans Day and every day, military members, veterans, and their spouses get automatic MyLowe's Rewards Silver Status Benefits. Plus, 10% off eligible purchases with no annual limit. It's one way we honor and give back to those who have served and still do. Learn more and verify now at Lowe's.com/military. 10% discount can't be combined with another offer. Exclusions, terms, and conditions apply. Loyalty programs subject to terms and conditions. Details at Lowe's.com/terms. Subject to change.

• 45:44Speaker 09

  I've got big news. I switched to Verizon and got the new iPhone 18 Pro. Shh. I can keep... My old phone? Can I also get the latest iPhone every year? Shh, anything else? Verizon let me choose Apple Watch Series 12 or iPad on them. Everybody, listen up. Shh. Switch to Verizon and get the new iPhone 18 Pro now. No trade in needed. And the latest iPhone every year with Simplicity Plan. Plus, choose Apple Watch Series 12 or iPad on us. Simplicity Plan with Simplicity Pro required. Plan and device payment purchase are separate agreements with separate terms. Service plan for Watch or iPad required. Additional terms apply for all offers.

• 46:14Speaker 15

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• 46:44Speaker 16

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