Sex scenes are liberating! Nafessa Williams on Rivals, racism, and self-belief

Sex scenes involve a lot more padding and tape than you might expect! Rivals actress Nafessa Williams has found being at the centre of one of TV’s sexiest shows both nerve-wracking and incredibly liberating. In this chat with Fearne, Nafessa explores what it means to play the only black woman in a white man's world in 1980s Britain, and why she sees her acting as her contribution to activism and representation. Do you consider yourself to be ambitious and driven? Nafessa wonders if you rest as hard as you work... because you should! Plus, how to manifest the life you want, without forgetting the key component: action! Watch Rivals series 2 on Disney+ from May 15th. If you liked this episode of Happy Place, you might also like: Rhonda Byrne https://pod.fo/e/ba4b1 Leigh-Anne Pinnock https://pod.fo/e/205bb3 Afua Hirsch https://pod.fo/e/2b12ae Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Fearne Cotton?

  Hello and welcome to Happy Place. I'm Fern Cotton and this is the show that builds real resilience. Today, I'm chatting to Nafessa Williams.

• 0:10Speaker 01

  I remember telling myself, it's gonna be hard, you're gonna hear no, and you gotta get comfortable with it. So I remember being like, even if it takes me 20 years, like, I'm gonna do, you know, you just have to build up that mindset of longevity and shaking it off and getting back up. Like, I wake up and I'll be like, okay guys, show me how good today is going to get.

• 0:31Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, shall we head back to the 80s with Rivals? I think we should. I am in my mid-40s, so I remember the 80s, obviously. I was born in 1981, which to my kids, sounds like the Tudor era. And the 80s were a mixed bag, but what I would say is that there were some real treats in the 80s. One of them, big hair. You know, we like circle back in fashion to different decades. I don't think we've actually really done the 80s. Like, we'll do a bit of a shoulder pad here and there, but it's not been like a full 80s deep dive. Like, when you see pictures or video footage of pop stars or actors or whatever, or the

• 1:13Fearne Cotton?

  news from the 80s, everybody, men, women, dogs and cats, everyone had massive hair. I reckon, I think we need to start bringing this back. I'd be really up for it, like sleeping in rollers kind of thing. My mum in the 80s, I've got a brilliant picture, I've got to dig it out, she had a full-on, like a sort of two-inch-high kind of mohawk on the top of the head that went down into a mullet at the back. Like, can you remember what Linda McCartney's hair was like in the 80s? That's what Lynne Cotton had. Extraordinary hair. I think we need to, we're a bit boring with hair these days, guys. It's just like... It is what it is. I think we need to go back to the 80s. Big hair, big shoulder pads,

• 1:58Fearne Cotton?

  all the way. So look, let's talk more about Rivals. It's on Disney. I bet you've already seen series one. If you haven't, it is more than worth a big old binge. It's just such great escapism, jumping back into that time era, especially because it's all based on Gillie Cooper's brilliant books. The late, great Gillie Cooper, who really didn't pass away that long ago. So it's all still very fresh in everyone's minds. Nafessa Williams plays Cameron Cook, who is a very smart TV producer from New York, who finds herself

• 2:34Fearne Cotton?

  in the cutthroat, very sexist world of 1980s British TV. And series two is coming this week. Get ready. So we had this chat about a month or so ago, and we had such a riot of a conversation. One thing we did obviously talk about was sex scenes, because if you've already watched Rivals series one, you'll know there is a lot of sexy time in it. And I always just sit there, whether I'm watching Rivals, or a film, or whatever, where actors are having to simulate sex. And I just think, how are they, like, we all do, how are they doing this? This must feel mortifying. Or, or actually, like, what if you're kind of

• 3:16Fearne Cotton?

  into it? Like, there's just so many different outcomes. But actually, by the sounds of it, it's just like, very robotic and choreographed. But you'll hear more about how to actually feel really good in scenes like that as an actor, and what it takes to get a really good sex scene. Also, we talk about the actual realities of systemic issues like sexism and racism, two things that Nafessa's character has dealt with, but we talk about her own experiences. Also, the idea of choosing to see positives in a day, which I really need often to remember the positives and maybe write them down, or just think of them first thing in the morning. Really, really important.

• 4:01Speaker 02

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• 4:06Speaker 03

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• 4:07Speaker 02

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• 4:10Speaker 03

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• 4:12Speaker 02

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• 4:22Speaker 02

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• 4:24Speaker 03

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• 4:27Speaker 02

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• 4:28Speaker 03

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• 4:34Fearne Cotton?

  Right, let's do it. This is the show.

• 4:58Speaker 01

  How are you?

• 4:58Fearne Cotton?

  I'm good.

• 5:01Speaker 01

  Be here with you.

• 5:02Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, nice for you to be here. We're very happy to have you on the podcast, Nafessa. A proper official welcome.

• 5:08Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 5:10Fearne Cotton?

  Very exciting that Rivals 2 is on the way. I mean, what a show and what a cast.

• 5:16Speaker 01

  If you were excited about season one, season two is bigger, is bolder, is sexier, is steamier. It's 2.0.

• 5:24Fearne Cotton?

  It's so great. I mean, what a cast. It's such an amazing lineup of people that we know and love. Has it been fun to integrate into that group?

• 5:34Speaker 01

  It has. I mean, I'm an explorer, so to work outside of America and work with new actors and be challenged with the new experience, a new location, I'm all for that. I can kind of get bored. I've been in America my whole life. I've been working with American actors since I started, so it's just really kind of cool to... Yeah, explore and see how it works over here, see what the differences are with set. But it's pretty much all generally the same. But yeah, no, I've been, I've been living my best UK life.

• 6:01Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I'm so glad.

• 6:03Speaker 01

  I've been travelling, I've been doing the most with my time. Um, and I really, I really like it here, so it works for me.

• 6:09Fearne Cotton?

  That's so good. Have there been any moments where you're like, what are they talking about? Or like, why are they being so weird? We can be quite odd a- as a, as a nation.

• 6:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, we got our, we got our quirks too, so it's all good.

• 6:23Fearne Cotton?

  And we have strange turns of phrase for things that are odd.

• 6:27Speaker 01

  You do, you do.

• 6:28Fearne Cotton?

  And the food, how are you feeling about that?

• 6:30Speaker 01

  You know what? I found my favorite places. I find my way. I'm a foodie, so I have to like find my way. Um, it's a bit healthier, which is good.

• 6:37Fearne Cotton?

  Do you think?

• 6:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think so.

• 6:39Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, that's good.

• 6:39Speaker 01

  I find it to be a, a little bit. Um, but yeah, I find my, I find my, my places and it works for me.

• 6:45Fearne Cotton?

  Mm, mm. Have you tried things like, I don't know, I'm thinking of something particularly British, crumpets and tea or something?

• 6:51Speaker 01

  Um, I don't know if I've had crumpets and tea, but I've definitely had a bunch of tea.

• 6:56Fearne Cotton?

  So much tea.

• 6:57Speaker 01

  It's funny because I'm from Philly and we have like these cakes that are called crumpets, but I don't think, or they're crimpets. So I don't know if it's exactly the same, but um.

• 7:05Fearne Cotton?

  A crumpet is kind of a savory round, uh, sponge with holes in essentially that you put butter on. Toast them and put butter on. They're really good.

• 7:13Speaker 01

  Okay, okay, maybe I'll try one.

• 7:15Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, you have to try one.

• 7:16Speaker 01

  I don't know if I tried it, to be honest.

• 7:17Fearne Cotton?

  Even if you're feeling super fancy, I would say butter and jam, AKA jelly. You like jam, yeah.

• 7:24Speaker 01

  Anything bread, anything jam, butter. I mean, carbs.

• 7:27Fearne Cotton?

  Carbs are the best, are the greatest invention ever.

• 7:31Speaker 01

  Really?

• 7:31Fearne Cotton?

  So I'm so glad that you've enjoyed your time here and you're settling in. I mean, that cast also has some party animals. I know, some of those guys are my friends. I know these people.

• 7:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:41Fearne Cotton?

  There's, it's, it's partying. Is there partying offset a lot?

• 7:44Speaker 01

  Um, we, we have a good time. We have a good time. I don't, I don't, I don't give away too much of our fun.

• 7:49Fearne Cotton?

  It's got to stay secret.

• 7:50Speaker 01

  It's got to stay. What happens in our house stays in our house, but we have fun. So if you know us, then you know.

• 7:55Fearne Cotton?

  If you know, you know.

• 7:56Speaker 01

  If you know, you know.

• 7:58Fearne Cotton?

  As you said, like, it's a, it's a sexy show.

• 8:00Speaker 01

  Very.

• 8:01Fearne Cotton?

  It's raunchy. As just someone that loves watching drama, I am one of those people that sits there going, how are these actors doing this? This must feel terrifying, nerve wracking, exposing. How do you get yourself mentally in the headspace to deal with doing a sex scene, doing a, a romantic scene?

• 8:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, it can be nerve wracking. Um, I'm just.

• 8:25Fearne Cotton?

  Here comes the caffeine. Let's get that caffeine in.

• 8:28Speaker 01

  Thank you. Hi, baby. How are you? I think I should be good.

• 8:34Fearne Cotton?

  We've got all the essentials coming in.

• 8:36Speaker 01

  We'll do a little white while you're here.

• 8:37Fearne Cotton?

  Let's do a limp roll. Let's do a little, a little caffeine here. Please don't tell me this is your first coffee of the day.

• 8:43Speaker 01

  It is.

• 8:43Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, God. How are you here?

• 8:45Speaker 01

  And you probably are going to be shocked to find out that it's, it's decaf too. I just like the taste.

• 8:50Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, wow.

• 8:51Speaker 01

  I already have a lot of energy, so the coffee just takes me like to a whole other level.

• 8:56Fearne Cotton?

  I wouldn't be able to stand up unless I'd had a coffee.

• 8:58Speaker 01

  I hear some people are.

• 8:59Fearne Cotton?

  Immediately.

• 9:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, I get it.

• 9:01Fearne Cotton?

  Immediately.

• 9:01Speaker 01

  I get it.

• 9:02Fearne Cotton?

  Well, look, enjoy that. Um, yeah, let's talk about, let's talk about sex scenes because I do think it is one of those very basic things that most audience members just think, how are these actors doing this?

• 9:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's nerve wracking. I'm also, I just am the type of storyteller where if it's a part of the story, we have to tell all of it. It is nerve wracking. However, I'm like, be prepared, make sure that everybody is on one accord so we don't have to do it too many times.

• 9:26Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 9:27Speaker 01

  And just go for it. The more you just go for it and you commit and you just set out to get it done right the first or second time, you know, then hopefully, you know, I would say that our directors are, are pretty, just compassionate to the fact of how sensitive it is to us and how vulnerable we are. So we try to get it done in a speedy manner too, where we're not playing around too much and trying to find things on the day. So the more prepared you are, both the actors and crew, I think it makes it a lot easy, easier. We are heavily protected with our intimacy coordinator, so that helps and, you know, the guy. That we work with, um, gentlemen, so that makes for a better experience too. But it's nerve wracking, honey. It is. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. But I'm also kinda like, ah, let's just do it.

• 10:12Speaker 01

  And when you have that energy and you put that commitment behind it, like I said, hopefully it doesn't have to be so excruciating.

• 10:18Fearne Cotton?

  No, I'm imagining it's sort of just very technical. It's not like you're lost in the moment.

• 10:23Speaker 01

  No, every, some people are like, oh, is it, is it real? Do you feel anything? And it's like, it's so technical. It's a dance that we're finding. It's a well versed dance that we've rehearsed and we've practiced and there's no time for, for, for anything else other than the technicality of it.

• 10:38Fearne Cotton?

  And you've probably got like tape everywhere and it's just.

• 10:41Speaker 01

  You're padded up, it's boards, it's, it's so many layers of protection uh, for, for, for both parties that, you know.

• 10:50Fearne Cotton?

  So say you've got a scene, like, like you've read the script, you know that in three days' time, you've got that scene to shoot. What are you doing to just get yourself in a headspace where you're not waking up feeling dread or, or panic about it? That you feel grounded and you feel calm?

• 11:03Speaker 01

  You know what? I think it's about, again, it's about being prepared. The more prepared I am, the better that I feel. Um, and, and, and leading up to those moments are conversations with the intimacy coordinator. And we're talking about what we're comfortable with and what we're not, and what we're willing to do and what we're not. So I think it's about me, I'm, I, I like to meditate and kinda get myself grounded that way. So the more calm that I am, um, and to just be honest, the more you do it, it kinda gets easier too. You know, I'm a little daredevil. I'm a risk taker. So I'm just kinda like, you know, once I've, I've done it a time or two, it feels a bit, a bit easier. And you know, we do it a lot. So.

• 11:40Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, in that show.

• 11:41Speaker 01

  So, you know, you build up to it.

• 11:44Fearne Cotton?

  I think you probably have to be a risk taker to be an actor in general.

• 11:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:48Fearne Cotton?

  But you know, especially for you, you've come to a completely different country with a cast that you don't know and an audience that you don't know.

• 11:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:55Fearne Cotton?

  You've gotta be, you've gotta have kinda nerves of steel to put yourself in those situations.

• 11:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, I always say we're pretty crazy to choose our jobs because, you know, just our fate, our, our, our opportunities are in the hands of someone else. And it's not personal. It's just like, do you fit the part? You gotta have thick skin and you have to be like, okay, I just heard no twelve times. But I'm gonna get back up and I'm gonna do it again. So it's about that having that resilience in you too. Um, so it's also liberating too. As jumping back to in particular, the the intimacy's uh side of it. It's it's very liberating when you can be comfortable in your skin and be that bold to say like, hey, this is, this is what it is. A little workout since some less carbs also helps. So, yeah, it's it's it's free and it's liberating as well, I would say.

• 12:42Fearne Cotton?

  Going back to that rejection, I mean, that is probably the toughest thing that you have to deal with in this industry. I don't, I don't put myself in that situation so much now because I try and create projects. But back in the day, I was constantly auditioning for things when I was starting out as a teenager. And what I think is really tricky to mitigate is paranoia. Because when someone is saying to you, even like you say, it's not personal, it's a role.

• 13:06Speaker 01

  Right.

• 13:06Fearne Cotton?

  But when someone says, oh, you weren't, you weren't quite right, and they're so generic about it. That used to kill me and I used to think, is there something fundamentally wrong with me? Am I like so deeply flawed that, or I'm, am I weird and no one's telling me? You know, I would feel so paranoid. Have you, have you felt that?

• 13:23Speaker 01

  Yes, it's, it can create a huge insecurity if you let it.

• 13:27Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 13:28Speaker 01

  And I think you have to find ways to trick your mind. And also it's about having that confidence and not let it be shaken too much. But I mean, I, yeah, I started in New York, which is not a very easy place to start. And then also being in Hollywood, it was tough when I first got to Hollywood. I had a little bit of experience, but then you go into rooms and you're auditioning with people who you grew up watching. And you could be like, okay, yeah, no, I'm not, I'm not about to get this. Like, I, I just can't compare it to the experience, right? I remember telling myself, it's gonna be hard. You're gonna hear no, and you gotta get comfortable with it. So I remember being like, even if it takes me twenty years, like, I'm gonna do, you know, you just have to build up

• 14:07Speaker 01

  that mindset of longevity and, yeah, just shaking it off and getting back up. Like I said, there'd be times where you're hearing no, and you're like, okay, so like, I hear you saying it's not personal, but like. But why wasn't it? But what is it? You start questioning yourself. Give me feedback. And it can be so generic. You remember back in, in the day, pre-COVID? When you go into audition room and sometimes the casting director, they won't even look up at you. They don't give you anything. And like you said, it's so generic. It's so generic and you're like, okay, like, is something wrong with me? I remember being like, I have a degree. Why am I doing this to myself? Yeah. Hollywood doesn't love me. They not saying yes to me. Maybe I should just go back home. And, you know, sometimes it's about, not sometimes, all the times, it's about having people around you who can remind you when you're in those low moments.

• 14:52Speaker 01

  Like, I had a really good friend who's like a big sister to me and she was like, get up. And I remember that feeling of feeling so defeated and just drained and exhausted from going on so many auditions. But I'm not a quitter, so I got my ass up. And the next, the very next audition after such a low moment was the, the show that changed my life, my, my first show, Black Lightning. And it's just, I always would tell myself if I give up today, tomorrow would be the day that I could make it and you don't make it to see it. So that would be how I would like trick my mind to keep going and just remembering that I'm unique and to, to bring those qualities. And my first show, the character was literally, it needed all of who I was.

• 15:32Speaker 01

  And there's a role out there for all of us and there is a character that is just so fitting and it's only for us. But if we give up, we won't know. So.

• 15:40Fearne Cotton?

  So you're so right. And I love that your friend gave you that advice. It's so important to have people that tell you what you need to hear, not what you want to hear. And I've got, my mate Claire said this to me even the other day. She said, we don't give up.

• 15:53Speaker 01

  No.

• 15:54Fearne Cotton?

  And I was like, oh, God.

• 15:55Speaker 01

  No, we don't.

• 15:56Fearne Cotton?

  I was like, no, we, we don't. Absolutely. I needed that rather than her go, oh, I know, it's really hard and you're feeling this right now. She was like, we don't give up.

• 16:04Speaker 01

  No.

• 16:05Fearne Cotton?

  And I was like, holy shit. I've never needed to hear something more. And then actually, it was quite motivating, like boosting in terms of,

• 16:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:12Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, she's right. What, what am I doing? Like lying on the floor, crying about everything. Like get yourself up.

• 16:17Speaker 01

  That was me.

• 16:17Fearne Cotton?

  And do the thing.

• 16:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:19Fearne Cotton?

  And do the thing.

• 16:19Speaker 01

  And it's about who you're around because you can have somebody who can come over and have the pity party with you. Or you can have, like you said, a friend who's like, that's not, that's not what we do.

• 16:26Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 16:27Speaker 01

  So, so get up.

• 16:28Fearne Cotton?

  Exactly. And it's still okay. Key to feel sad.

• 16:31Speaker 01

  Feel your, yeah.

• 16:32Fearne Cotton?

  Feel it, then get over it.

• 16:33Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 16:33Fearne Cotton?

  Rather than suppressing it and going.

• 16:35Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 16:35Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, I'm not gonna think about that, la la la.

• 16:36Speaker 01

  No, because that's not real. And you have to be real with yourself and you have to be real about your feelings. And I think it's allowing ourselves the opportunity to feel them and process them, like you said. And then be like, okay, that was my time. And sometimes give ourselves a time limit. Yeah, however long that needs to be, but just give yourself a limit to where you're like, okay, we've dealt with it and we're moving on.

• 16:56Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, it is so key. I mean, obviously, the audition for Rivals went really well because.

• 17:03Speaker 01

  You got the part.

• 17:04Fearne Cotton?

  Here with you. It's a brilliant thing and, and I'm sure not an easy show to film at the best of times. You know, there's comedy in there, which is brilliant, but also you've got serious drama in there. And as we all know, in the eighties, there was blatant misogyny and sexism and homophobia and racism. And Rivals doesn't shy away from any of those themes. It looks at the realities of them, but I'm sure some of that to film is confronting or uncomfortable for you.

• 17:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it's our voice and our job as, as artists and as actors in particular, to tell those stories and to be the mirror and to hold, hold it up so that we can confront it and be faced with the, the prejudices of that time and the racism and the sexism. Um, and also just the different class systems and within this show, you know, uh, it's, it's about class, but it's also the idea of wanting to escape it. And have just those real moments and real feelings and, uh, make mistakes and learn from them. And, you know, it's not just about sex, it's about trying to find things that make us feel good too. And like I said, escape from what we're, what we're going through. Um, and that's real.

• 18:11Speaker 01

  You know, me, I, I, you know, there's nothing better than a nice rom com when I can put it on and I can escape from, from whether it be work or from life and just for that moment, just kind of like give myself over to, to that story. And that's what it's about.

• 18:26Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I mean, your character, Cameron Cook, she, she's constantly having to face up to these very powerful men.

• 18:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:31Fearne Cotton?

  Who wanna tell her how it's gonna be, or there's kind of emotional blackmail involved and all sorts of game playing and trickery. Are there any bits of Cameron's story or experience that you feel you've had to deal with in your sort of ascent in acting?

• 18:47Speaker 01

  Um, you know, I'm just trying to think of, well, one thing I can say is my life with hers was very parallel with coming, you know, same difference. Coming from America and I'm from Philly, which is right next to New York. She came from New York to come to London, same difference. Life imitates art for sure. And I get here and I'm like, what the hell did you decide? And I was like, where is Bristol? Where am I? Like, what did you just do? And I could, I could understand the, the, being in a new world, being in a new country with, with actors that I'm not familiar with. She's in a place with these new colleagues and worker, coworkers that she just, it's a new world. So we were kind of learning together.

• 19:28Speaker 01

  So I was able to lend over to Cameron the real life experiences of taking that risk and moving from home and being alone. First season was kind of tough for me. Um, I do think scared, so that's the cool part, but, but it was hard being here. If I could be completely transparent, it wasn't easy. I had to learn a new world. I had to, you know, uh, find my rhythm here and make a completely strange place, my home for almost a year.

• 19:55Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 19:55Speaker 01

  Uh, but I gave it over to her because she was going through the same exact thing. So that was one thing that, yeah, you know, I was able to give that over to her. I was like, what did we do?

• 20:05Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, it's amazing.

• 20:06Speaker 01

  What are we doing here? So that was one thing that directly affected both of us, the character and myself.

• 20:12Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, like you said a moment ago, the eighties, it was rife to sort of have that blatant level of racism and sexism. But in many ways, it's not that much better today. I think we still can see the reverberations of, of all of those systemic issues set in stone. They do play out in all areas of life today. Is that something that you've dealt with in your acting career or just actually in your everyday life?

• 20:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, I'm one of those people who tries not to focus too much on what's not working for me, but I'm also one of those people who I use my voice as, as an activist. And I believe, uh, from my last show, I played a superhero who was really much big on being an activist and, uh, fighting for what's right and standing up for it. And then you get Into this show and Cameron is doing that too like she's she's The only black character on the show and a white man's world in the eighties trying to prove herself. There's a lot of racism. It was it was it was hard. I can't say that I've dealt with direct Racism in my career so much, but you know, there's still not a lot of uh

• 21:19Speaker 01

  Of me on TV in the way in which it could be, you know, so this role is an opportunity. Not just for us today, but to show the women back then like wow, someone like Cameron who's badass, Who's smart as hell, who's smarter than these men that she's around. She's quicker. She's from New York, so she's fast on her feet. And she can handle herself. So To me, I take pride in playing such a character who Wasn't maybe around in the eighties in the way that we may see more of us in the in the workplace, in the industry as as We've come a long way, but there's still some some a lot of work that we have to do, but

• 22:01Speaker 01

  I think for me as an artist, this is my way of being an activist. This is my way of using my artistry and using my voice To show how deserving we are To be in these positions as well and you you you you do it with excellence. And in hopes that That mirror again is shown to say like, okay, hey, this is still how how as companies as Um studios, as corporations, like how do we look at this, what's happening in the eighties and ask ourselves, have we changed? Is there enough diversity? Is there enough inclusion? And I think that's what what Cameron is and what she speaks to.

• 22:39Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 22:40Speaker 01

  And I take it very, very serious.

• 22:42Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 22:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, hell yeah.

• 22:44Fearne Cotton?

  Hell yeah. My god, sometimes you deliver lines as Cameron. It's like, whoa goosebumps, you know, it's like Boom, mic drop. She's she's said the thing. It's it's so great.

• 22:56Fearne Cotton?

  Hello, this is Suzy Ruffel.

• 22:57Speaker 04

  And Maisie Adam.

• 22:58Fearne Cotton?

  And together we host Big Kick Energy. Hey Mais, what is it?

• 23:01Speaker 04

  Only the best podcast ever.

• 23:02Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 23:03Speaker 04

  A comedy entertainment podcast with a focus on all things women's football, all things hilarious, all things friendship. It's a laugh is what it is, Ruffel.

• 23:13Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, and a fair bit of gossiping too.

• 23:15Speaker 04

  Oh, and a lovely bit of gossip. Chow down on the gossip.

• 23:17Fearne Cotton?

  Nom, nom, nom, nom, nom. You can listen wherever you get your podcasts. You just need to search Big Kick Energy.

• 23:23Speaker 04

  Grab a knife and fork and tuck in, baby.

• 23:29Fearne Cotton?

  Like you said a minute ago, you don't want to focus on what doesn't work for you. And having read interviews that you've done before, listened to some podcasts that you've done.

• 23:36Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 23:36Fearne Cotton?

  You're big on the secret, the law of attraction.

• 23:39Speaker 01

  Oh, I don't play around. I do not play around.

• 23:42Fearne Cotton?

  I love it.

• 23:42Speaker 01

  So it's like you could, you could decide to focus on it or you could be the solution and, and create your own projects. Like I'm developing some of my own projects and it's like you can complain about what you don't see or you can take control of it, speak up for it, but also create it. Create it for yourself and create it for people who look like you. And yeah, it's, it's, it's important to, to focus on what I want to do and what, how I can do it differently. Cause if we, if we, if we keep focusing too much on that one frequency, you're going to create more of it. So it's like, we have the power and the control. But yes, I take meditation, the law of attraction and I just, I believe that I can like literally be and do and have anything. And I, I do, I do.

• 24:26Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 24:27Speaker 01

  You know, some people can say that it's a, I will hope that it doesn't come off arrogant, although I don't really care these days. Because I, there's proof of concept and I know that it works. So yeah, I focus on what I want and I obviously, obviously work hard to, to go and get it. Yeah, I believe anything is possible. It's probably, I'm a Sagittarius too. Like we think that anything can be done.

• 24:47Fearne Cotton?

  I love it. But you just said something so important because yes, we've got to be in the mindset of going, I want that thing or this is how I want my life to play out. But then you do the hard work. It's not just sat there daydreaming. It's the action part that is really important as well.

• 25:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm not just like waiting for some magical dust to just like drop. Like you put, I put the work in too. And you know, faith and work is, is when you see results.

• 25:10Fearne Cotton?

  Oh my God. We had Rhonda Byrne on this podcast. I can't think when it was.

• 25:13Speaker 01

  You have Rhonda Byrne? And you didn't call me?

• 25:18Fearne Cotton?

  Honestly.

• 25:18Speaker 01

  She helped change my life.

• 25:19Fearne Cotton?

  Same. Oh my God. I was in the shittest mood the day of the recording. I was just feeling really crap and it was only on Zoom because I think it was in the pandemic.

• 25:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:28Fearne Cotton?

  And after we spoke, it was like I was a new person. I I just like, I I get it. I just needed to hear it one last time.

• 25:35Speaker 01

  One last time.

• 25:35Fearne Cotton?

  One last time. And everything she says makes so much. It's actually very practical and logical.

• 25:42Speaker 01

  Very practical. And it's not even, and yes, it's one last time, but I think it's a continuous thing that you have to do. Like, I have to put the work in every day or you slip back into some thinking that's not gonna serve you. So it's the self-work. It's it's daily, like if you really think about it. But I got, I found out about Rhonda, ooh, like when I break, like as I was just starting. Cause I graduated and I thought I was gonna be a lawyer.

• 26:07Fearne Cotton?

  Yes, you were studying criminal justice, right?

• 26:09Speaker 01

  I thought I was gonna be defending some folks or I thought I was gonna really be a lawyer. And then I got out and I was like, ooh, yeah, no, I'm gonna, I'm gonna play it on TV. Cause this is, this ain't it. And I knew that I needed something practical to kind of help me. I mean, I essentially like started over and switched careers completely. And that book is literally where I was like, word? This is how easy? This is, this is what, is that simple to just switch your thinking and expectation too? Like you, you have to believe it and you have to, um, sometimes I get really bold and I'll be like, okay, I'm expecting this on this day. If you really wanna take it to the next level, but it's, it's the attitude and the belief of the expectation.

• 26:54Speaker 01

  But I love, love, love her.

• 26:56Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, me too. And I think it just puts you in a positive mind frame. Because you're actually looking at what is possible, rather than constantly second guessing what terrible thing might happen. Which I think the world is set up to make most of us feel like that. Certainly women, that we should be hypervigilant, what, what's gonna go wrong? Something's, someone's gonna catch me out. What if it goes right?

• 27:17Speaker 01

  And it's simply a choice that you make. I wake up and I'll be like, okay, guys, show me how good today is gonna get. Like, show me how good it. Can really get and you it's a choice. You could focus on what happened yesterday. I was reading something and I don't, I think it was Eckhart Tolle.

• 27:34Fearne Cotton?

  Also love.

• 27:36Speaker 01

  He's the whole teacher in my, in my whole life and I'd have, I never even met him. I believe it was Eckhart that said. We tend to focus on like the negative things, the arguments, the things that happened to us, the things that we took personal. As opposed to like a sunset or a vacation. Like, why not focus on like something good that happened yesterday? So sometimes, a lot of times I'd be like, okay, where's my thinking? Is, is, is that awareness and checking in with yourself and be like, okay, where am I? What am I thinking about? And then switch it. It's just a switch. Just like a radio station, it's a frequency.

• 28:05Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I had it yesterday. I was, I'd had some tricky stuff to deal with. And at the end of the day, we had that weird spring day yesterday.

• 28:11Speaker 01

  Why was it so nice?

• 28:13Fearne Cotton?

  It was so good. It smelled of spring.

• 28:18Fearne Cotton?

  Oh my God, it's spring.

• 28:21Fearne Cotton?

  And the blossom on the trees. And I went for a walk by the river and I was like, do you know what? Whatever happens, thi- this doesn't go. I get to see this. Like this is just, this is there. This is fucking there. And no one's taking that from me. It is.

• 28:36Fearne Cotton?

  But it is about readdressing your focus and going, I'm not gonna look at this.

• 28:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm gonna look at that.

• 28:41Fearne Cotton?

  This. And like you say, it's every damn day.

• 28:44Speaker 01

  Forever.

• 28:45Fearne Cotton?

  Forever. No one wants to hear that. Everyone's like, do this thing for four weeks and your life is fixed. It's every day.

• 28:50Speaker 01

  Like I tell people, you could go to church or whatever your belief or your practice is. You can go once a day. Or you can have it every day at home.

• 28:57Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 28:57Speaker 01

  But I, I mean, I'll keep it real. I had a moment this morning. I was like, uh-uh, what are we thinking about, girl? We not, that's not what we're trying to attract. It's so simple. Whatever it is that we're thinking and feeling, you attract more of it. So you gotta catch yourself. But I had a moment this morning and I got my, I got my shit together.

• 29:11Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, but we all do. We're human.

• 29:13Speaker 01

  It's human. And you have to, like we said, allow those, uh, those moments, those human moments to be just that.

• 29:19Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, it's so important. I mean, is this something that you believe was instilled in you in childhood through parents, caregivers? Or is it something that you've discovered out of, and it's a necessity that you've discovered it?

• 29:30Speaker 01

  I think both. I, I did, I did grow up like in the church. Um, but that doesn't mean you continue it if you don't want to. I think it's a choice at the same time. I think I've always been really optimistic. It's hard to tell me no, Fern. I'll be like, wait, say what? I'll be like, well, one more time. But I think we could do something about this. So because I truly believe that, that, that something can be done, so. Yeah, I could be a little hard headed. So even as a kid, I just didn't understand, no, because I, my mind was so much bigger than, than that. So I think it was something that I was, that's just in me. Um, but it's also something that I choose to, to practice too.

• 30:06Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I mean,

• 30:06Speaker 01

  It's a choice.

• 30:07Fearne Cotton?

  Do you, growing up in Philadelphia and then having made that decision,

• 30:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:10Fearne Cotton?

  Okay, uh, acting's for me. Did you feel like there were opportunities nearby? Or was that something you had to really work out a plan of how, how am I gonna do this?

• 30:18Speaker 01

  It was a plan. And I, and I remember, uh, I actually got fired from my law job because I had an audition. They told me I couldn't go. And I was like, yeah, no.

• 30:27Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I'm going.

• 30:28Speaker 01

  I'm going. So I went and I got to my computer the next day and I was like, damn, nobody told me when I was walking in, I was fired. I get to my desk and I'm checking, I'm trying to like sign in and I was, they were like, yeah, come talk to us in HR and they fired me. And I remember the woman, I never forget her name, Susan. She was crying. She was like, because she hired me straight out of college. I graduated college early too. And I was like, she hired me. I knew that I had the job like before the new year and she just was really sad that I was getting fired. And I was like, Susan, it's okay.

• 30:59Fearne Cotton?

  Susan, I'm kinda glad.

• 31:00Speaker 01

  Susan, thank you. Hurry up, fire me. But I knew that there weren't a lot of opportunities in Philly, but thankfully, New York was literally down the street. It's like from London to Bristol to get to New York and Philly. So I just was like, okay, I don't know when this gonna work or how it's gonna work, but I'm willing to just like, like I said, if it takes me 20, 25 years.

• 31:19Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 31:20Speaker 01

  At least I know I put the work in. Like I was willing. I didn't have anybody who was in the industry. I'm no nepo baby. I started green. I didn't have any friends in the industry. Like I started straight green, blank on my own. But New York was a really great, a really great place. I, I didn't go to a actual like drama school, but I did check into like some of the conservatories that were shorter programs. And I just engulfed myself in the acting community and I hung around people who were acting, who knew more than me. I would ask questions. I humbled myself because I just, I knew I didn't know.

• 31:52Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 31:53Speaker 01

  So it's like you can act like you know, or you can humble yourself and you can be like, I need help. Where'd you get those headshots from? Where'd you get this from? And then shortly after, I booked about a year and a half into it. I booked my first job and I was like, okay, see, that's all you gotta do for me is tell me one time, a yes. And that was the hope for me. It was a soap opera, One Life to Live. It was a four year contract. And I was like, this is all I needed for, I just needed one person to tell me yes, because that's the only, that's, that's, that's enough of an omen to just like, keep going.

• 32:20Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, but even to start, you have to have, and I totally resonate with this, you have to have some weird self-belief that it's possible, otherwise you wouldn't bother.

• 32:27Speaker 01

  You wouldn't bother.

• 32:28Fearne Cotton?

  You wouldn't bother. I'm the same as you, I, I come from like, a random suburb in London, I didn't know anyone in telly. But even as a sort of small kid, I thought, I reckon I can do that. I reckon there's.

• 32:38Speaker 01

  Why not?

• 32:38Fearne Cotton?

  And you obviously have that childlike naivety, which I think is, is helpful. I was like, I, I think, I don't see why I couldn't do it.

• 32:46Speaker 01

  Right.

• 32:46Fearne Cotton?

  So you have to, I think, have that, because if you, if the starting block is, oh god, this is probably a terrible idea, but I'll try anyway.

• 32:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:54Fearne Cotton?

  You, you're fucked. You've gotta have that, that weird belief of like, I, I kinda think that this is doable.

• 33:02Speaker 01

  I think it's like a vision and an insight that of knowing.

• 33:05Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 33:05Speaker 01

  That, that you know, but again, um, I knew that it was just an incredible dream to be asking for, and I didn't wanna just be an actor. I was, I wanna be a working actress, and I wanna work on some of the best projects that there is, and people would be like, oh, what do you do? And I hadn't booked a job at all for it, and I'd be like, oh, I'm a working actress, I'm a working actress, like, I'm a working actress. And until I, until it became that, you have to like, you kinda gotta be a little insane and psychotic, so I, I claim that, I, I am.

• 33:32Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, no saying, absolutely.

• 33:34Speaker 01

  I am.

• 33:35Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, you kinda have to.

• 33:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, I own it.

• 33:37Fearne Cotton?

  And were the people around you supportive, you know, people in your family, like, go in the visa, you've got this.

• 33:42Speaker 01

  For the most part. Some people were like, why would you like, get fired from that really good law firm? And I remember my mom, she was like, she was really sad. She was like, why, why would you do that? You had benefits and it was good. And I was like, mom, trust me. And then she was like, a few weeks went by and she saw how serious was, serious I was. And you know your kid too, she was like, well, everything you touched turned to gold, so hell, go ahead, go for it. And that was a, that, that's a big thing to have that kind of a support from your parents. Whether they gave it to me or not, again, I'm hard-headed, I was gonna do it. But it's nice to know that my mom, hearing everything you touch turns to gold, that's, uh, that's really, really. Uh, comforting and validating from your parents here.

• 34:24Speaker 01

  So I was like, you know what? Damn straight. Hell, yeah, I do. So let me, let me go for it even more. So, um, some friends thought it was kind of risky and weird, but again, that's, that's, that's what they believe. And you gotta be crazy enough to stand out.

• 34:39Fearne Cotton?

  I've been blinkered. I'm not looking at that, not listening.

• 34:41Speaker 01

  Tunnel vision.

• 34:42Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. Everyone must be so proud, though. Your family must be so proud.

• 34:45Speaker 01

  They are. Thank you.

• 34:46Fearne Cotton?

  I think to have that dream and then actually commit to it and bloody well do it, you know, it's no mean feat. It's a big thing today.

• 34:52Speaker 01

  I'm really grateful, you know, um, sometimes I find myself on set and if you standing close enough to me, sometimes you'll just hear me being like, thank you, God, thank you. Just resting in that gratitude because I remember that those early days, I remember being here. I mean, I remember being where I want to be now. And I think gratitude has a lot to do with manifestation too. Um, and I'm not trying to sound cheesy or corny or anything, but it's, it's, it's my reality, is proof of, of, of concept of, of me practicing it and applying it to my life. So gratitude is, is really, really big to me. I try to journal, at my gratitude journal, almost every day. Because again, I'm, I'm still manifesting and also that frequency of gratitude is what brings you more.

• 35:35Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, without a doubt. And where do you think your drive comes from? Cause you have to have that. That is imperative. In this game, you wanna keep in it, you better be driven.

• 35:43Speaker 01

  You better be ready. Yeah. I, I owe a lot of that to Philly. It's, it's a hustle, it's a bustle. And then, you know, um, also have family again in New York. So I was there and the hustle and the bustle of the East Coast and being from up north. Like we'll sell water to a well if you, if you, if you give us the opportunity to, or we'll take it. You know, it's about having that energy and being bold. Um, yeah, yeah. I think also too, just, I remember watching TV and I remember being like, how did I end up in Philly? Why am I not living in like Beverly Hills? Like what's happening here? And I remember my mom at 11, I was like, mom, I'm moving to Beverly Hills. Just, I was obsessed with like watching TV and, you know, I love the West Coast. LA has my heart. It's my second home. So. She was like, girl, you're gonna need a lot of money to live there. And I was like, okay, well.

• 36:28Speaker 01

  So that was, you know, um, I think it's just an insight and I think it's just desires that we have. Um, and I believe if I was given the insight and I was given the vision, then it's, it's real.

• 36:39Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, you just said there the word obsession. I think again, that's very, very key. It's key for anybody to do particularly well in any career. It doesn't have to be acting.

• 36:48Speaker 01

  Whatever it is.

• 36:49Fearne Cotton?

  You have to be obsessed. And again, I don't think many of us wanna hear that. And also, I don't think you can fake obsession. I don't think it's something that you can think, I'm going to become obsessed with this, so I'm do well at it. It's in you.

• 37:01Speaker 01

  It's in you or it's not.

• 37:01Fearne Cotton?

  It's in you, yeah. And it's, I mean, it can be a problem because I think sometimes then it's hard to switch off. You are just, it's all about that. And I can certainly be like that myself. And I have to watch it and go, whoa, where's the balance gone? You need time out. Yeah. Is resting hard?

• 37:19Speaker 01

  I'm, I'm reminding myself that I'm worthy of relaxation. It's like been one of my affirmations. Um, there was a moment, as you know, in our industry where it's like, you're only as good as your last project. And work begets more work. And it's, it's, I'm also like living in this, I just turned forty two. So I'm kinda like, I know who I am.

• 37:41Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, forty is the best.

• 37:42Speaker 01

  It's like, I don't need any more validation. And also too, it's like, you work so hard. And one year I worked really, really hard. I went from my last show to like another movie and this movie and that project. Till when twenty twenty two came, I was like, I need a break. I haven't slept in my house. I haven't driven my car. I need to go on a vacation. So I remember my therapist said something to me a few years ago. She said, your rest and your self-care needs to match your level of hard work. And I was like, oh.

• 38:11Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, that's wild.

• 38:11Speaker 01

  I was like, oh, then I need to sit my ass down.

• 38:14Fearne Cotton?

  Exactly.

• 38:15Speaker 01

  So like even now, I just wrapped the show and there was an opportunity to just like go do another show. And I was like, yeah, no, but I need to sit with me. I've been with Cameron for a year. Like, I need to live. And I believe that living.

• 38:29Speaker 01

  One of my acting coaches, Erin Spicer, always would say, we need to live to give over to our art.

• 38:35Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 38:35Speaker 01

  I need to go to some galleries. I need to travel. I need to just do nothing.

• 38:39Fearne Cotton?

  To be.

• 38:40Speaker 01

  To be and to sit with myself and see how am I feeling because I believe in order to give over authentically to your character, you have to like really be in tune with who you are and where you are in that awareness of yourself. So it's not the easiest thing for me and I'm sure you can identify with that. But you kind of got to force it.

• 39:01Fearne Cotton?

  Hmm, and also otherwise life just whizzes by.

• 39:05Speaker 01

  I don't believe we're just born to work hard and die. Like, no, I'm not, uh-uh.

• 39:09Fearne Cotton?

  We can't, we can't. We've got to pause and look around and go, right, what is going on? Especially when you've got a big shoot like Rivals.

• 39:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:18Fearne Cotton?

  And you're like, I've just got to get to the end. You could easily just whiz through that whole year and it's gone and you're like, did I enjoy it?

• 39:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I have been here almost a year. Now, I do use my time wisely, so if I see a window, I'm like off to take as many trips as I can, but you know, there's still, you're not super free because it's like, okay, I'm studying on that trip. I'm looking out for call sheets and I'm preparing my lines, so it's nice to be just free for a second.

• 39:44Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, it's good. I think it's that knowing you deserve it is the hardest bit.

• 39:48Speaker 01

  Knowing you're worthy of it.

• 39:49Fearne Cotton?

  Knowing you're worthy. And of course, we would say to our best friends, of course, take a break. Oh, my God. But for ourselves, it's so hard to offer ourselves.

• 39:57Speaker 01

  I have become my very own best friend lately and also learning too that I think more comes to us when we loosen up the grip.

• 40:03Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 40:04Speaker 01

  You know, when we're gripping too tight and we're not allowing things to just like naturally flow into our lives, we're forcing it and I don't want what's forced.

• 40:11Fearne Cotton?

  No, no, no, no, no.

• 40:13Speaker 01

  I just want to be in like divine flow and alignment.

• 40:16Fearne Cotton?

  That's, otherwise it's that tension, that omnipresent tension where you're like pushing and pushing and pushing, but getting nothing back. That's a horrible feeling.

• 40:24Speaker 01

  That's the stuff that gets us sick. I don't have time. I wanna live like I'm like a hundred and four.

• 40:29Fearne Cotton?

  Me too.

• 40:31Speaker 01

  So I need to take care of myself and yeah.

• 40:34Fearne Cotton?

  Also, I'm in the whack in the middle of my forties.

• 40:37Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 40:37Fearne Cotton?

  And it just gets better and better.

• 40:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:41Fearne Cotton?

  And better.

• 40:42Speaker 01

  I feel great.

• 40:42Fearne Cotton?

  It's the decade for women where I think we go.

• 40:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:45Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, wait, what do I, what do I wanna do? What do I wanna do in my life? It's, it's that decade.

• 40:49Speaker 01

  I think it's also like I have zero, like my fucks to give are like.

• 40:53Fearne Cotton?

  Getting short.

• 40:54Speaker 01

  They're short, short.

• 40:54Fearne Cotton?

  I love that.

• 40:55Speaker 01

  It's like, it's like right here. And we know who we are.

• 40:57Fearne Cotton?

  We're talking a centimeter of fucks, guys.

• 40:59Speaker 01

  Right here, like, I ain't got it. I ain't got it. And it's about like, you know, again, like, I think you enter that era where you're like, the people pleasing is out the window.

• 41:10Fearne Cotton?

  Gone.

• 41:10Speaker 01

  Uh, the validation is like, yeah, I'm cool. I know who I am. I don't, I don't need that external validation, the way that I need it, you know? We all like to feel good and to have people tell us nice things, but it's, it's not living for that.

• 41:24Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, I know. I've literally just spent the last year writing a book about that exact subject. It's called Likeable. And it's all about that need for everybody, please like me, please like me. It's like, I, we cannot do that anymore. We can't. It's so dangerous for us to put ourselves in that position of, and it's hard, I think, in, in my job, certainly, in your job to a degree, you want people to like you. It's kind of part of it almost, whether it's this context or getting an audition. Please like me.

• 41:51Speaker 01

  You're literally going into the audition to say, hey, do you like me? Am I good enough? And my, and it's just like when you don't, like we going back to what we said, when you don't hear the things that you wanna hear, it's just like, I think I heard Journey Smollet say that her mom told her, cause you know, she's a child, a child actor too. Her mom said, I'm, I'm paraphrasing, but don't take heed too much to the, to the, to the praise and don't take heed to the criticism.

• 42:19Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 42:19Speaker 01

  Like, try to find that balance and don't get too moved by either side of it because then you're allowing what people say and do to sway how you feel.

• 42:26Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, it's so important. The praise bit's so interesting because actually if you do lean into that too much and then it goes, you're, you're flawless. So yeah, what do you do?

• 42:34Speaker 01

  What do I do?

• 42:35Fearne Cotton?

  It's terrifying.

• 42:35Speaker 01

  And then it's a drug, cause you, you need more of it and you, we gotta find a way to give that to ourselves, cause we're the only people who could really do it.

• 42:43Fearne Cotton?

  I agree.

• 42:44Speaker 01

  We are the only people.

• 42:45Fearne Cotton?

  I agree. It's all that counts is that we've got our own backs and that we can be our own cheerleaders. We have to be.

• 42:50Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 42:53Speaker 05

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• 43:20Speaker 06

  Network freedom and flexibility, that's what you want in a healthcare plan. With a Humana Medicare Advantage PPO plan, you can see any doctor in the country who accepts Medicare, including specialists. No referrals, no kidding. Learn more at gethumana.com. See any doctor who accepts Medicare and is willing to bill Humana. Humana PPOs may not be available in all areas. Benefits and costs share may vary. Humana is a Medicare Advantage PPO organization with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal. Hello, this is Suzy Ruffel.

• 43:52Speaker 04

  And Maisy Adam.

• 43:52Speaker 06

  And together we host Big Kick Energy. Hey Mais, what is it?

• 43:55Speaker 04

  Only the best podcast ever.

• 43:57Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 43:58Speaker 04

  A comedy entertainment podcast with a focus on all things women's football, all things hilarious, all things friendship. It's a laugh is what it is, Ruffel.

• 44:08Speaker 06

  Yeah, and a fair bit of gossiping, too.

• 44:09Speaker 04

  Oh, and a lovely bit of gossip. Chow down on the gossip.

• 44:14Speaker 06

  You can listen wherever you get your podcasts. Just need to search Big Kick Energy.

• 44:17Speaker 04

  Grab a knife and fork and tuck in, baby.

• 44:24Fearne Cotton?

  It's gonna be very interesting, I guess, with this second series of Rivals coming out, because last year, Gillie Cooper sadly died, which was unexpected, seemingly. She used to pop to set quite regularly. She was really part of the making of it. That must have felt very heavy, that happening.

• 44:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's still very sad for us, as it's still very new. It was just a few months ago. That it that it happened and such a strong, powerful badass woman. I mean, we're here because of

• 44:56Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 44:56Speaker 01

  Of her and her thoughts, her feelings, her creativity. Um, and it was just really cool. I always say this about about Jilly, who I who I love dearly. She's really sweet, always having something funny to say. When I first met her, she was like, and don't let them cut your hair. I was like, hell, yeah. Y'all not cutting my hair. So she always has something just like, you know, just endearing to say to each of us. So that was really, really hard. But what I really admire about her life is that even at her young age that she was, still being able to see in her mature years, a dream come true. I'm a dreamer. So it was just like for her to see, you know, you write books. So imagine just to see the fruition of a

• 45:38Speaker 01

  coming to life like that and you having this vision. And I'm proud that she even got a chance to see us move into season two. It's so sad that she won't be able to see it, but I I will watch her in person on set, watching us. She would be at the table reads with us, word by word, reading the scripts with us. So it's like, wow, to see a dream come true, like we are never too mature to to dream and to see it come true. And the joy of her watching it was just like, damn, we can we could dream as as long as we want to. And to see that dream of hers come true was really inspiring for me.

• 46:13Fearne Cotton?

  I think also going back to like the law of attraction, just showing that the timeline for this stuff can be anything. Because it took decades for her books to be made into TV shows.

• 46:23Speaker 01

  Decades.

• 46:24Fearne Cotton?

  To to this degree, for it to be a big Disney show.

• 46:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:28Fearne Cotton?

  And I'm I'm sure she wasn't sat there just waiting for it to happen, but it took a long time. And actually, these things aren't tomorrow. It can be. It's when it's right.

• 46:36Speaker 01

  It's when it's right. And back to what I was saying too, is I remember sitting down with myself, knowing that I was like asking for an unimaginable thing to happen. So I was like, it might take 20 years. Like, bro, are you good with that?

• 46:49Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 46:49Speaker 01

  Like, you have to be real with yourself to. I I know a lot of people, you know, we want to see things happen quick. And we want to see it happen. And if it's not happening quick enough, then I've watched a lot of actors kind of give up. And they're like, oh, I'm gonna go try this. And it's just like, yeah, but you're gonna fall off radar with the with the casting director. You can't take breaks. Like, you have to be so consistent. And resilient and staying focused. It's so easy to kind of veer off and be like, oh, it's taken too long. It's taken too long. Like, she never gave up on that.

• 47:18Fearne Cotton?

  Never. I know. It's wonderful. I can't wait to watch it. Hey, before we end, two questions. The first one. We're making a Happy Place playlist. What song are you putting on there?

• 47:29Speaker 01

  Uh, Pharrell, "Happy." Do you have it? It's probably, is it on there?

• 47:33Fearne Cotton?

  It might, it might be on there. It might be on there.

• 47:36Speaker 01

  That's a good dance. Uh, another one is, I'm, I'm a huge Bruno Mars fan. If you've never seen him in concert, he gives more than he has to.

• 47:43Fearne Cotton?

  He's brilliant.

• 47:44Speaker 01

  Um, 24 karat magic, that gives me life.

• 47:46Fearne Cotton?

  That is good vibes.

• 47:47Speaker 01

  That's a good one.

• 47:47Fearne Cotton?

  Okay, that's going on there.

• 47:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think anything that makes you dance.

• 47:50Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 47:50Speaker 01

  They say when you're dancing, uh, you can't be sad. You're out of your thoughts.

• 47:54Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 47:55Speaker 01

  It makes you happy.

• 47:56Fearne Cotton?

  Okay, they're both going on.

• 47:57Speaker 01

  Okay, good.

• 47:58Fearne Cotton?

  Last question.

• 47:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:59Fearne Cotton?

  Where, Nafessa, is your happy place?

• 48:02Speaker 01

  Oh, um, by the water. I wanted to say LA first, but again, LA has water. Uh, LA and anything by the water. Like, I love, uh, vacationing. It's like my favorite thing to do, is how I take care of myself. Massages are my happy place. But being by the water where I can meditate, I, I, I'm reminded of how powerful life is, how powerful God is, and how small we are compared to life. Um, love LA. It's my happy, happy place.

• 48:30Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 48:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:31Fearne Cotton?

  Get in that sunshine.

• 48:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, every day.

• 48:33Fearne Cotton?

  You've done enough British shit rain. You need to get back to LA.

• 48:36Speaker 01

  Get me out of here. I woke up today, I was like, damn, it's cloudy again. Like, I feel bad for y'all. And I'm like, even as kids, I'm like, damn.

• 48:43Fearne Cotton?

  How did we do?

• 48:44Speaker 01

  Yesterday was nice, though.

• 48:45Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, but it makes you so grateful for those.

• 48:48Speaker 01

  For those moments. I just, I just stood in the sun yesterday and was like, wait, let's not be staying here.

• 48:52Fearne Cotton?

  You know, you take it for granted in LA. It's just, it's just there, just the sun. Yesterday, I was like, is, is that the, is that the sun? What, what the hell is that?

• 49:00Speaker 01

  Then when I think I see it, it goes away so quick. I feel bad for y'all. I'm like, damn, is this day life all the time? I guess I kind of got used to it. I do love London, though. I, I think it's a really dope vibe here.

• 49:10Fearne Cotton?

  London's fun, it's just shit weather.

• 49:12Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, it got me. First time I visited was 2018, and it was a great summer y'all were having. It was sunny, so I kind of got tricked into being like, everybody's like, London's weather. I was like, not when I went. It was so good.

• 49:23Fearne Cotton?

  Don't be fooled. Don't be fooled. Well, look, Nafessa, I wish you, not that you need it, the luck, but the love and the luck for everything you do in the future and for series two.

• 49:31Speaker 01

  I appreciate it. I could talk to you all day.

• 49:33Fearne Cotton?

  Same, same.

• 49:34Speaker 01

  Thank you for having me.

• 49:36Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, Nafessa, I loved that chat so bloody much. It was so interesting to learn more about Nafessa as a person, her own journey, her own determination, her own excitement for the job that she does. And also just to be on the receiving end of a Nafessa like full, bright, what smile is something else. So if you haven't, maybe go and watch it on YouTube because she is just such a, she has the most sunshiny smile of all time. Right, you can of course watch Rivals on Disney from the 15th of May. What opportunities are you creating for yourself? I would love to know. Or maybe there's an opportunity that you really want to start

• 50:19Fearne Cotton?

  carving out for yourself. Let us know. Chat on Instagram with us at happyplaceofficial. All right, for now, a massive thanks again to the brilliant Nafessa, to the producer, Anushka Tate at Happy Place Studios, and to you, you're the best.

• 51:00Speaker 06

  Hello, this is Susie Ruffel.

• 51:02Speaker 04

  And Maisy Adam.

• 51:03Speaker 06

  And together we host Big Kick Energy. Hey Mais, what is it?

• 51:05Speaker 04

  Only the best podcast ever.

• 51:07Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 51:08Speaker 04

  A comedy entertainment podcast with a focus on all things women's football, all things hilarious, all things friendship. It's a laugh is what it is, Ruffel.

• 51:18Speaker 06

  Yeah, and a fair bit of gossiping too.

• 51:19Speaker 04

  Oh, and a lovely bit of gossip. Chow down on the gossip.

• 51:22Speaker 06

  Nom, nom, nom, nom, nom. You can listen wherever you get your podcasts. Just need to search Big Kick Energy.

• 51:27Speaker 04

  Grab a knife and fork and tuck in, baby.