What To Do When Your Mind Won't Quit | Bart van Melik

Buddhist tools for forgiveness, boredom, worry, and getting out of your head. Meditation teacher Bart van Melik leads a live community Q&A — and the questions that come in are ones most meditators have quietly wrestled with for years. Bart is the guiding teacher at Community Meditation Center https://www.cmc-ny.org/ in New York, where he leads weekly sessions grounded in Buddhist tradition. In this episode, he takes on four of the most common sticking points in practice: forgiveness, boredom, disconnection from the body, and the spiral of anxious "what if" thinking. His approach throughout is warm, precise, and grounded — less about achieving a particular state and more about learning to hold whatever arises with curiosity and kindness. Topics covered: Forgiveness — why forcing it can backfire, what it means to "bypass" difficult emotions, and the reframe that changes everything: forgiveness as giving up all hope for a better past Boredom — how to get genuinely curious about it instead of fighting it, and what it can teach you about why you reach for your phone Getting into your body — why embodiment looks different for everyone, and how to find the activities (yes, even mindful salsa dancing or vacuuming) that make it easier Worry and "what if" thoughts — the Buddhist framing of worry as an obstacle to clear seeing, and a simple breathwork technique from Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche — exhale heavy, exhale calm — that works even in the hardest moments Community as practice — the Buddha's teaching that friendship and community isn't half the path. It's the whole thing. About Bart van Melik: Bart van Melik http://bartvanmelik.com/ is a meditation teacher and guiding teacher at Community Meditation Center, a global and local community that meets weekly via Zoom. Monthly sessions are donation-based and open to all. Learn more at https://www.cmc-ny.org/. Get the 10% with Dan Harris app here https://app.danharris.com/membership Sign up for Dan's free newsletter here http://www.danharris.com/ Follow Dan on social: Instagram https://bit.ly/3tGigG5, TikTok https://bit.ly/3FOA84J Subscribe to our YouTube Channel https://bit.ly/3FybRzD Join Dan and Emmy Award-winning journalist Allison Gilbert at 92NY on May 17th for a live conversation about how mindfulness can deepen connection and combat loneliness, available in person and via streaming. Register here. https://www.92ny.org/event/dan-harris-with-allison-gilbert Join Dan, Sebene Selassie and Jeff Warren for Meditation Party, a 3-day immersive retreat at the Omega Institute in Rhinebeck, NY, October 16–18, 2026. Register here. https://www.eomega.org/workshops/meditation-party#9851 To advertise on the show, contact [email protected] or visit https://advertising.libsyn.com/10HappierwithDanHarris

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:04Dan Harris?

  This is the 10% Happier Podcast. I'm Dan Harris.

• 0:18Dan Harris?

  Hello, my fellow suffering beings. How we doing today? If, like me, you've got a mind that likes to marinate in "what if" loops, "what if I panic?", "what if I always feel this way?", "what if I can't handle this?", if you're prone to that kind of thinking, this episode is for you. You're about to hear a master meditation teacher, Bart Van Melech, hold forth on how to handle these doom loops and much more. Bart also talks about forgiveness and what it actually means not to force forgiveness, how to work with boredom in meditation instead of running from it, how to get out of your head and into your body when you feel disconnected, and he talks about a breathing technique that he uses in lots of stressful situations, including when he's in the dentist's chair.

• 1:02Dan Harris?

  So there's a lot here. Just a little bit about Bart before we dive in here. Bart is a guiding teacher at the Community Meditation Center in New York City. He also occasionally serves as Teacher of the Month over on my new-ish meditation app, 10% with Dan Harris. Like all of our Teachers of the Month, Bart will occasionally do a live session where he takes questions from subscribers, and today, we're going to play you one such session. Before we begin, a heads up that I've got two live in-person events coming up. On May 17th, I'll be at the 92nd Street Y in New York City. I'll guide a meditation, take your questions. Specifically, I'll focus on how meditation can be truly helpful and not self-indulgent in these fraught times. And then coming up on October 16th through 18th,

• 1:46Dan Harris?

  I'll be doing a weekend event at the Omega Institute in upstate New York. It's our annual meditation party. I do it with Sebene Selassie and Jeff Warren. It's a full weekend where we teach a variety of meditation techniques. We take your questions. We even throw a dance party. It's a great way to deepen your practice and to get to know other people who also meditate. I will put links for both of these events in the show notes. And we will get started with Bart Van Melech right after this. If you care about supporting independent media, and if you care about being a node of sanity in an insane world, there are a few quick, easy, and free ways that you can support me and my team, which I would be really grateful for. One way to do it is to sign up for my newsletter, which comes out on Monday mornings.

• 2:30Dan Harris?

  It's a little dose of sanity in your inbox at the beginning of a busy week. The second way to do it is to follow and subscribe to the show wherever you're listening or watching right now. That really helps. Three, share your favorite episode with a friend. This is a great and low-stakes way to connect with somebody in your orbit. And not for nothing, it also helps us grow. And all of these things take about 30 seconds, and they really do help. You will be supporting me and my team and our mission, and I, as I said, would be immensely grateful. You can find everything we do at danharris.com. It's all right there. Thank you. I mean that seriously. We'll be right back with more show. If you care about supporting independent media, and if you care about being a node of sanity in an insane world,

• 3:15Dan Harris?

  there are a few quick, easy, and free ways that you can support me and my team, which I would be really grateful for. One way to do it is to sign up for my newsletter, which comes out on Monday mornings. It's a little dose of sanity in your inbox at the beginning of a busy week. The second way to do it is to follow and subscribe to the show wherever you're listening or watching right now. That really helps. Three, share your favorite episode with a friend. This is a great and low-stakes way to connect with somebody in your orbit. And not for nothing, it also helps us grow. And all of these things take about 30 seconds, and they really do help. You will be supporting me and my team and our mission, and I, as I said, would be immensely grateful. You can find everything we do at danharris.com. It's all right there. Thank you.

• 4:00Dan Harris?

  I mean that seriously. We'll be right back with more show.

• 4:04Speaker 01

  Thank you for practicing together. A radical act of kindness. So I just want to offer some responses, not so much answers, but responses to your questions.

• 4:18Speaker 01

  And the first one is from Michelle. So I'll just read her question to you. It's about forgiveness. The times that I find my mind uselessly running those old tapes is usually about an interaction with someone that caused me to know that I cannot work things out with them. And I want to forgive them and myself so I can move on already. But I'm not sorry for the words I spoke and I don't believe I will ever be. Selfishly, forgiveness is what I need for my own peace. And my course of action has been metta, which is kindness in the Buddhist language.

• 5:03Speaker 01

  My course of action has been kindness to them and myself. And the question is, can you speak to this? And if there's something more or different I can be doing, I'm ready for new challenges, not the same old boring ones. Thanks, Michelle. I like that last piece, the "not same old boring ones." I think it's really important to be creative in your meditation practice. And ultimately, the question to what practice is the best is about what works for you in that moment. There's not one way to always address experiences because they're always changing. And so when it comes to forgiveness,

• 5:47Speaker 01

  in my particular experience, I've noticed that it's a process. And sometimes I try to use it as a way to get over things. Just like mindfulness. Sometimes in my practice, I have this hidden agenda like, if only I'm mindful of it, then it should go away. If only I really forgive this, I should feel better. And so I would really kind of be careful if there's that sense of bypassing happening with this really heartfelt wish to forgive. And maybe also to keep listening to these old tapes of regret.

• 6:31Speaker 01

  I think what this practice allows us to do is also to change our attitude to them.

• 6:38Speaker 01

  So if you go through meditation practices and it feels like you're reliving the same thing over and over again, if you can do that, it's actually really powerful. Because it empowers you to keep being with it. And over time, this bearing witness will move us towards a different attitude to it. And so with forgiveness, I would definitely not force it. But maybe sometimes when you see the old tape again, Michelle, and this is for all of us, notice, how am I holding it? And maybe something has shifted.

• 7:19Speaker 01

  And maybe then see if that might feel like a sense of forgiveness. Ultimately, forgiveness is about giving up all hope for a better past. And it's a brave thing to do. Really give yourself time and creativity in this. Think that's really helpful. And knowing you do not need to hold this alone. So really appreciating you sharing this question, Michelle. Thank you. The next question is coming from Varsi. Varsi is asking, "How best should I deal with inattention and boredom while meditating?

• 8:04Speaker 01

  I've been meditating consistently since the pandemic, but sometimes I don't feel as motivated to practice as I did in those early days, when everything was new to me." I think we can all relate, Varsi, that the honeymoon phase of meditation practice will only last for a while, because as the Buddha said, "All things are impermanent." Even our initial Hallelujah phase of meditation. I think boredom is actually really worthwhile looking into. I used to teach a lot of young people meditation. And I remember in a middle school, our topic was boredom. And I remember one kid saying, "I like boredom."

• 8:49Speaker 01

  And everybody else in the group was like, "Why?" And he said, "Boredom is not that bad. It's not that stressful. I don't mind it." And I think that could be a great attitude, actually, to recognize when it's here, and then just see, what's boredom like? And in meditation, there's two really important questions. The first one is, what is this? And so you might go, huh, boredom? And then the second one is, how does it feel? How does boredom behave? How does it manifest in my body? Those are the most important questions in practice,

• 9:33Speaker 01

  not so much, why am I bored? That can easily trigger us into a lot of more thinking. Now, what I found really helpful is to see that boredom is like a wave. It comes and it goes again. And the more you see it in your practice, the more helpful it also is in daily life. Because why do you pick up your phone or device often? Probably because there's some element of boredom, of not really knowing what to do, and then just start looking for something. And so in practice, you can actually see that your mind might start to

• 10:17Speaker 01

  start looking for things. So become curious the next time when you recognize boredom, and then just go, what is this? How does it feel? And notice that it's impermanent, and actually, not that stressful. Yeah, thanks for that question. Oh, man, I wanna, well, I already acknowledge that I can go through all of them, but I really appreciate sharing them, and they're really helpful to read as well.

• 10:52Speaker 01

  The next one is from Heidi. Heidi writes, "Please, can you help me understand better how to get out of my head and into my body? I'm feeling so detached and disconnected from my life and the people in it, which is a lonely place to be. Everything I'm learning through meditation is about connecting with the body, but I'm still struggling to understand what that means and how it helps. And being part of a community like this is a really big help in not feeling alone. So, thank you."

• 11:32Speaker 01

  I just want to start with that last piece, Heidi, and honestly share with you that without community, I would have stopped meditating 25 years ago. And I really love the Buddhist teachings. I'm kind of a geek in that way. And there's one passage where the Buddha is sitting next to his cousin. And his cousin, Ananda, as his name, was also his attendant. And he's telling the Buddha, he says, "Look at that huge group of disciples that are all doing their thing. Isn't this practice half of, you know, this life that we're leading?" And the Buddha goes,

• 12:16Speaker 01

  "Ananda, no, don't say that!" exclamation mark. "It's the whole of this practice. Friendship and community is the whole of this practice." So Heidi, you're really pointing at something really important. Being part of community is a really big help in not feeling so alone.

• 12:39Speaker 01

  And what I've learned in community is also to listen to all the different voices. And everyone is in a different social location, yet very often there is a sense of a connection somewhere. And so your question is a great act of generosity about struggling what it's like to really be mindful of the body.

• 13:06Speaker 01

  I think what could be really helpful is again to be creative. And what kind of activity is it easy for me to feel the body? And I remember I was teaching in a VA hospital in the Bronx, here in New York City.

• 13:23Speaker 01

  And one man said the same thing. He said, "When I'm sitting, I don't really feel my body that well. Can I do something else when you all do sitting meditation? Or do mindful chair yoga meditation?" And I said, "What would you like to do?" And he said, "Can I do mindful salsa dancing? And then pretend as if I'm dancing with my wife?"

• 13:47Speaker 01

  And I asked the rest, and everyone was like, "Fine, go for it." So this man is kind of doing this movements and all this stuff. But these movements, he says, really make me feel a sense of connection to my body. And so Heidi, and for everyone really,

• 14:05Speaker 01

  I would highly suggest finding ways to feel that sense of connection with your body. And for me personally, it's swimming. And I'm maybe a strange person for many of you, but I swim year round outside in Coney Island in New York City. It's really cold. But when I feel coldness, it's easy for me to feel the body.

• 14:32Speaker 01

  And it's really important to do so because in all the meditation instructions the Buddha gave, he so often started with the body.

• 14:41Speaker 01

  And so Heidi, I would highly suggest what kind of activities do you do that you can easily feel that you are embodied? Another one I do, it's maybe strange, but I love mindful vacuuming. And I'm really in my body. I did it before this session because then the session goes better when I'm in a clean bedroom.

• 15:05Speaker 01

  And so...

• 15:07Speaker 01

  Be creative when it comes to that, finding ways that you can connect with your body. And also, you said that you feel sometimes disconnected. Maybe that's also the system saying like, "I'm overwhelmed. I'm not available right now." Maybe sometimes what kindness would do is to realize, "I feel disconnected even from the people close to me because I might need some time to come home to more internal awareness." I think that's a really important intuitive listening that the practice can give us too. The next one is from Anne. "Hi.

• 15:51Speaker 01

  Tips for speaking back to negative what-ifs? And speaking back to obsessive body scanning outside of seated meditation fueled by anxiety? What if I panic? What if I always feel this way? What if? How can I take my meditation into this part of my life? What Buddhist wisdom can I apply? Thank you, Anne." I think that worry is such an important mind state to recognize. And in the Buddhist teachings, it was called "an obstacle to seeing clearly." Now, what the Buddha said about worry and restlessness,

• 16:36Speaker 01

  and also anger, is that when we feel that in that moment, it's hard for us to see the good in ourselves, the good in others, and the good in both when we're not mindful. So it's a powerful mind state, universal but powerful. And I like that you, in your question, Anne, said "what if?" So if you catch yourself thinking "what if", most likely what's going on is worry. And I think when you have a sense of energy, kindness, curiosity with you, my suggestion would be

• 17:20Speaker 01

  to see if you can go again, "Oh, worry is here. Worry is being known. How does the worry feel in the body?"

• 17:34Speaker 01

  So you're already, in that way, shifting a little bit from the narrative.

• 17:41Speaker 01

  For me, for example, when there's worry, I feel a lot of tension around the temples. Often the jaws clenched. And I feel a tightness, a little like, right here in the chest area. So if you have the energy and curiosity and kindness for it, explore it. Just like boredom.

• 18:03Speaker 01

  Just like any other state.

• 18:09Speaker 01

  The reason why this particular bearing witness to it with kindness is so powerful, because it will empower you when it comes back again, that you know, "Oh, I've sat this through. It's still not something I really like. It feels like praying for stuff I don't want. Maybe I can be with it." That's the empowering part of practicing awareness, of mindfulness.

• 18:39Speaker 01

  But I think sometimes also when you say, "What if I panic and it becomes too much?" Then what would kindness do is perhaps, and this is also from the Buddhist teachings, redirect your attention somewhere else.

• 18:57Speaker 01

  And not like, in a way that you feel like, "Oh, I should be with the worry." No, way more coming from a place of, "I'm too tired maybe for this. I can't hold this. Where else can I turn my attention?" And the Buddha gave one specific suggestion. And that is to become mindful of your body breathing when there's worry or restlessness.

• 19:27Speaker 01

  Here too, see if you can be creative. Maybe what kind of breathing has become helpful for you? And my go-to is a technique I've learned from a Tibetan Buddhist monk, who's from Nepal, and his name is Yongge Mingyur Rinpoche. And once he came to visit a class I was teaching of mindfulness meditation in a juvenile detention center. And, you know, we first did the program, and then the kids asked him, "So, can you also teach us a meditation?"

• 20:08Speaker 01

  And he said, "Sure, I'll teach you a meditation that I use when I'm afraid." And I remember, in that particular place, even the guards were like, "Let's try this. We want to learn about a easy meditation that I can do when I'm afraid." And so he had us all lie down. And then he said, "See if you can feel your body breathing." But he did something special. You could do it right now. See if you could pay extra attention to the out-breath.

• 20:48Speaker 01

  Feeling your body breathing out, very specifically. And then he said, "Every time you exhale, make your body a little more heavy." He kept repeating, "Exhale, heavy. Exhale, heavy." And I could already feel that the environment of the whole space with the intercom going on, your heard keys in the juvenile detention center, was changing. "Exhale, heavy." And then he added only one more thing.

• 21:33Speaker 01

  He said, "Now with every exhale, say the word 'calm,' as if you're talking to a young child. Exhale, heavy. Exhale, calm."

• 21:56Speaker 01

  Or any other word that has a soothing

• 22:02Speaker 01

  impact on you. Because the exhale, in and of itself, is already a relaxation.

• 22:19Speaker 01

  And you could say that a simple practice like that is again a radical act of kindness, especially when you're holding that in the midst of feeling worried, feeling powerless about the news.

• 22:38Speaker 01

  And so sometimes mindfulness of what's really there might not be the kindest thing to do. Also, someone shared in the questions, you know, feeling way more sensitive because of mindfulness practice, and that at night maybe so activated that it's hard to fall asleep. Maybe in that moment, mindfulness practice is not the kindest thing, but more like this restorative relaxation practices.

• 23:12Speaker 01

  And so now that every time I go to the dentist, I go exhale heavy, exhale calm. Even when I had like a serious operation, that was my go-to in the midst of all the what-if thoughts. And so I really appreciate you bringing that in.

• 23:37Speaker 01

  Because

• 23:40Speaker 01

  meditation is not about getting rid of any of all these states.

• 23:47Speaker 01

  It's about gently empowering us to bear witness to them, to be with them, and to hold them with as much kindness and compassion as possible. And so every time you feel like your meditation doesn't feel good, or you wonder, "Why did I do this?" All very normal, but it's really helpful. So as a teacher, I always tell people, and even myself sometimes, the most difficult meditations are perhaps the ones that we learn the most from. Because if your meditation was always blissful,

• 24:32Speaker 01

  how are you going to apply this in your life?

• 24:40Speaker 01

  I'm aware of the time, and I want to acknowledge also other time commitments that you have. And so I want to thank you for your presence and all the questions. If you want to stay connected with me, you're most welcome to join a global and local community called Community Meditation Center. And of that particular community, I am the guiding teacher. And we meet every Sunday from 10:30 to noon, Eastern. And it's all based on donation. You can just join through Zoom, just like this. And every month, we have a theme. And we're going to explore, actually,

• 25:25Speaker 01

  befriending difficulty, like worry, like you shared with us, Anne. So you're most welcome to join. And just lastly, I want to share the merit with you all of our time together, this radical act of peace revolution, of coming together in community. And just first, I want to invite you again to drop the question and see what arises. What would kindness do right now? What would it do for the body?

• 26:07Speaker 01

  And how would kindness hold your mind state?

• 26:22Speaker 02

  Kindness is the greatest protection in the entire world.

• 26:32Speaker 02

  And community is the whole of this practice.

• 26:47Speaker 02

  So may your time together be a cause and condition for inner peace

• 26:54Speaker 02

  and for much-needed outer peace.

• 27:00Speaker 02

  May there be peace.

• 27:05Speaker 02

  May there be peace.

• 27:09Speaker 02

  May all beings be liberated.

• 27:15Speaker 02

  Thank you, good people.

• 27:18Speaker 02

  And thank you, everyone at 10% happier for this experience. It was quite lovely.

• 27:28Speaker 02

  Be well.

• 27:35Dan Harris?

  Thanks again to Bart. He did a great job with that. If you like what you heard and you want to participate in one of these sessions, you can sign up for my new app over at danharris.com. We do these sessions every week, meditation, and then take your questions. We also have a growing library of guided meditations from world-class teachers like Bart to Jeff Warren, Sabine Selassie, Joseph Goldstein, and more. If you sign up, you also get ad-free versions of this podcast. There's a whole lot going on over there. And if you can't afford it, just let us know. We'll give it to you for free. Finally, thank you so much to all the people who work so incredibly hard to make this show. Our producers are Tyra Anderson and Eleanor Vasili. Our recording and engineering is handled by the great folks over at Podpeople. Lauren Smith is our managing producer.

• 28:20Dan Harris?

  Marissa Schneiderman is our senior producer. DJ Cashmere is our executive producer. And Nick Thorburn of the band Islands wrote our theme.

• 28:42Speaker 03

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