NBA One Guy (the West!), an Eagles Mess, MLB and WNBA Playoffs, a Mini-Mailbag and Ringer 107 Picks | With Rob Mahoney, Tom Pelissero, and Joe House

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Rob Mahoney to continue the NBA One Guy segment with the West! Then, Tom Pelissero joins to talk about six NFL topics heading into Week 5. Finally, Joe House hops on to answer some mailbag questions before making their Ringer 107 picks for the week. (0:00) Intro (2:44) NBA preview and NBA One Guy (West) intro (7:15) Mavericks, Nuggets, Warriors (20:03) Rockets, Clippers, Grizzlies (30:11) Lakers, Timberwolves, Pelicans (40:52) Thunder, Suns, Trailblazers (47:19) Kings, Spurs, Jazz (53:37) Six topics in the NFL with Tom Pelissero (01:27:11) MLB playoffs (01:30:36) Mailbag questions (02:02:17) Ringer 107 picks, Week 5 Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Rob Mahoney, Tom Pelissero, and Joe House Producers: Chia Hao Tat and Eduardo Ocampo This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Create a Personalized Price Plan® today. https://www.statefarm.com/lp/football/ The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit https://fanduel.com/playwithaplan to learn more about the resources and helplines. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Bill Simmons?

  This episode is brought to you by PayPal. The holiday rush is coming and you can get ahead of it with PayPal. Shop your favorite online stores with PayPal this season like eBay for collectibles, Fanatics for teen gear, Walmart for tech. Check out the flexibility to pay now or pay later and split your payments with Pay in Four with no interest, no late fees. Shop now with PayPal. Paying for subject to approval. Learn more at paypal.com/payingfor. PayPal, Inc., NMLS 910457.

• 0:39Bill Simmons?

  Today's episode of the Bill Simmons Podcast, brought to you by The Ringer Podcast Network, where I put up a new episode of the Rewatchables. On Monday, we did Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Yeah, we have another horror movie coming on Monday. We did Friday the 13th, the original, the first one. Because we've not done a Friday the 13th yet, so we figured we had to do the first one to set up the ones we really want to do, which is Part Four and Jason Goes to Manhattan, which is one of the funniest movies of the 1980s. So you can go check all those out. You can check out a couple of our new podcasts, including Jessel McBook Club and What Chaos, our NHL podcast. Crazy NHL season already, a lot of stuff going on. Brian Curtis launched a new newsletter this week as well.

• 1:22Bill Simmons?

  His version of the Press Box in print. It's called Now They Tell Us. He's written two pieces this week. They're both fantastic. That's what we got going here at The Ringer. I have a really, really, really stacked podcast. It's about as good as I can do. First off, we have Rob Mahoney, because I had to play NBA One Guy for the West. And we talked about 15 players in the West. Went right to Tom Pellicera. He gave us the six pack of NFL information and all kinds of storylines going on right now. And then last but not least, House and I talked about the MLB playoffs. I forced him to talk about WNBA again. It was actually pretty fun. And then we did Ringer 107 Picks. And we also did Mailbag.

• 2:07Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that's why this podcast is almost three hours long. It's all coming up next. We're going to take a break. Pearl Jam and then Rob Mahoney. This is the Bill Simmons Podcast presented by FanDuel. Make every NFL week more rewarding with FanDuel Rewards Club. You heard me. Just bet like you normally would, earn points in eligible settled bets, win or lose. Keep collecting points, level up and unlock bigger rewards. So keep an eye on your Rewards Club progress and see what you can unlock. This is your most rewarding season ever, and it's with FanDuel. 21-plus select states or 18-plus DC or Wyoming. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER, call 888-789-7777, or visit ccpg.org/chat. Connecticut.

• 3:18Bill Simmons?

  Rob Mahoney is here taping on a Thursday. We are less than a week away from the 2026-27 NBA season. Are you ready emotionally? Where are you standing these days?

• 3:28Speaker 01

  I hope so. I'm, I'm ready intellectually. I'm ready philosophically. I think the emotions, look, we're going to be riding high coming into opening night, but I hope I can get there by then.

• 3:38Bill Simmons?

  I didn't think I was ready, and it felt really soon because football feels like it started a little late this year. Baseball playoffs are going. WNBA playoffs have been fun. I have a college football team. And then three things happened. One was I saw a two-minute montage of Darren Peterson just cooking in some preseason game and making all of these different shots in the half-court offense that felt, looked like he was 28 years old. And I was like, oh, okay. So that happened. Then there was a two-and-a-half-minute montage of Darius Acuff using Demontas Sabonis picks and either faking like he was going to use the pick or not.

• 4:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:17Bill Simmons?

  And getting all of these good shots. Did you see this montage?

• 4:19Speaker 01

  I did not see that montage. Should I make time for it? Is, should that be a priority?

• 4:23Bill Simmons?

  I think you should make time for it. I was delighted and excited about it, and he looked like the guy that I thought he might be in college. So that was the second thing. And then the third thing was, we're still less than three weeks away from the season, and we've already had a Philadelphia controversy about whether or not Joel Embiid was late for practice.

• 4:40Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 4:40Bill Simmons?

  Involving Mike Breen having to basically recant something that he said. And, and then Nick Nurse seemed like he was kind of admitting it was true. I'm all in. I can't wait for the Philadelphia roller coaster, Rob.

• 4:52Speaker 01

  Should, should we get the Believe Mike Breen shirts printed up? What do you think? How do we want to stoke this?

• 4:57Bill Simmons?

  I'm trying to think, are there five more honest Americans than Mike Breen?

• 5:00Speaker 01

  That's the thing.

• 5:00Bill Simmons?

  That you would just trust with all information at all times?

• 5:03Speaker 01

  Our nation turns its only eyes to Mike Breen on many occasions, and I would trust him with my life. I am shocked that that's the list. I thought you were going to say you saw Digger and you were just going through like a what does it all mean kind of phase.

• 5:13Bill Simmons?

  No, have you seen Digger?

• 5:14Speaker 01

  I have not, but that's the impression I've been left with from everyone who has.

• 5:18Bill Simmons?

  Van Lathan saw it and talked about it on my pod on Tuesday and was doing the Van Zag, so I didn't know how much of it was true and not true, but really did like it. And then got a text from Wesley Morris saying, with, to be in Van, saying, so glad somebody is defending Digger. I'm so glad these movies exist. So I already feel like the zag is in full zoom, so I got to decide where I'm going to land on that. I'm really not sure yet.

• 5:41Speaker 01

  In a world where the zags are already zagging, like, do you now zig? What, what is your move?

• 5:46Bill Simmons?

  Is there a zag? There might be a third, there might, we might have to create a new one. What's the biggest NBA zag this season before we get into our little gimmick that we have?

• 5:54Speaker 01

  Well, how do you mean?

• 5:55Bill Simmons?

  What is the thing where the consensus seems to be going one way and you're just looking at it going, ah, I really want to go the other way on this? Do you have one yet?

• 6:04Speaker 01

  I'm trying, I'm trying to figure out where the consensus is. Because the West does feel a little cut and dry up top, but I feel like it probably will be a little cut and dry up top. And so I feel like if there's a place to zag, it's going to be in the East. I'm inclined to say the Pacers. I'm inclined to say, I, I see the Pacers consistently underrated in terms of over-unders, in terms of place in the Eastern Conference pecking order. I would make this pick, but I would be very surprised by the end of this year if they're not one of the best teams in the conference.

• 6:32Bill Simmons?

  See, I thought you were going to zag on that because it feels like the zag is already a lot of people going how much they like the Pacers.

• 6:38Speaker 01

  It's true.

• 6:38Bill Simmons?

  Why isn't this a 50-win team?

• 6:39Speaker 01

  But you asked me for a zag and not a zag.

• 6:41Bill Simmons?

  Well, maybe the zag is, actually, the Pacers are going to have a lot of trouble this year because Halliburton. But I'm with you. I, I'm with you on the Pacers. I think there's, I like the zag we just came up with two minutes ago. I think there's a really interesting zag with the Orlando Magic.

• 6:57Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 6:57Bill Simmons?

  Because I think even in the preseason, they've been running actual plays and offense that has delighted basically everybody like, wow, you're, you're using your players in a way where they complement each other and don't just stand around. And now there's a lot of Sean Sweeney. This is what they needed. There's some Coach of the Year buzz with him now. So I, we should learn with Orlando to never trust Orlando at all times. Should be the move. So Tuesday, I had your, your group chat co-host Kyle Mann on, and we played a game of NBA One Guy for the East. And I made him the same offer that I made you. I said, I made a list. I want to talk about one guy from each team that I'm fascinated by for some way. Do you want to see the list or not? Rob Mahoney said, no.

• 7:40Speaker 01

  No.

• 7:41Bill Simmons?

  I'm a professional. I've been podding for years and years. I don't need to see your list. I'm ready to, ready to bounce off whatever you have. So we're going in alphabetical order in the West. And the first team is Dallas. And my one guy is Kyrie Irving, who turns 35 years old in March, Rob. Does that make you feel old or young?

• 8:00Speaker 01

  It makes me feel quite old, but I suspect his knees feel a little older than I do.

• 8:05Bill Simmons?

  Hmm. Well, he's 39.5 this year, player option for 42.4 next year. You're 15. He has missed 305 games since the 2020 season, including all of last year. He's played 61-plus games twice since 2015. And yet these stats are, last 10 seasons, he's 26 and 6, almost a 50, 40, 90 guy. I don't know what team he's going to be on. I don't know what's left. I don't know how many games we should expect from him. If there is a team to trade for him, I don't know who it is. I don't know why Dallas wouldn't keep him. I don't know what Dallas's game plan is. I just have all questions and no answers with Kyrie Irving. Do you have any answers at all?

• 8:47Speaker 01

  I think the best thing we have, or the closest thing we have to an answer is that he's going to be really good. Like, I fully expect coming off of the ACL, Kyrie has the game, has the mechanics, has the, like, the efficiency of movement to come off of an injury like that, even at that age, and be a really formidable scorer as we would expect. But again, like where he ends up, I'm with you that a lot of teams could talk themselves into it. And so forecasting Kyrie's season is basically impossible. I do think it will serve the Mavericks to trade him, though. And will probably serve Kyrie to move on despite the fact that he's done very well there. It seems like his relationship with the franchise has been pretty strong overall for most of that time, you know, barring a Luka trade here or there. And so, but he's so useful in so many contexts.

• 9:30Speaker 01

  And like, if you're a contender that's even close to the borderline, and these are two conferences where the East is going to be so dense in the middle, and the second tier in the West is going to be so competitive, I think one of those teams should absolutely talk themselves into trading for Kyrie.

• 9:43Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I mean, he's signed up for Luka and Nico Harrison and Jason Kidd and contending and trying to rebuild his career and his life, which he did. And I, I think he's, the last two years or so, he's been as normal as he's been since his early years in Cleveland. I think teams would not be afraid to trade for him. I just don't know what the team. I wrote down Houston, question mark, Toronto, question mark, Denver, question mark, Golden State, three question marks. Golden State, I think, is in that move where it's like, can we just get one more guy who can do basically anything? Who is it? Where is that person? How do we find them? And I do think now that Curry's locked in, they'll be rolling the dice. But yeah, I, I mean, the problem with Kyrie, there's some other guys in the league that are like this too.

• 10:28Bill Simmons?

  You basically are hoping he's healthy April, May, June, or there's no reason to trade for him.

• 10:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:33Bill Simmons?

  He's gonna play 50 to 60 games. That's just who he is. He's another guy like Embiid, who it's almost better if he's once a week. We're here, or if he's used like some WWE uses some wrestlers where they're like, he only wrestles pay-per-views. And is it better to have Kyrie like that? I don't know, and I don't know whether he wants to stay or go. He's been pretty, pretty elusive about, he seems like he wouldn't be opposed to it, but he hasn't come out and said, I'd like to go.

• 10:58Speaker 01

  He's had that like politician polish when he's been asked, you know, like a little too rehearsed, a little too like buttoned up in terms of his responses about his place with the organization. So I, I think it'll make sense for everybody though. I mean, one team that you didn't mention that I think could be on the board is Detroit, depending on how their season goes.

• 11:16Bill Simmons?

  Ooh.

• 11:17Speaker 01

  That's another one where it's like, you see who Cade is when he has any ball handling help at all, like a Dennis Jenkins level ball handler makes a world of difference for him. Good Lord, if you put someone like Kyrie out there, if you could swing that trade where you're giving Dallas pieces for its future without compromising Detroit's present too much, if that's even achievable, I don't know. But I would, I would be looking into it if I were the Pistons.

• 11:38Bill Simmons?

  Toronto was the one I was thinking, like a, a team that could be close, that has contracts, not a lot of picks left.

• 11:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:45Bill Simmons?

  But things to basically make a move on, but more importantly would set us up for Kawhi and Kyrie being on the same team, which would basically just ruin my podcast. I would get that wrong all the time. I would be just calling them by each other's names. I can't even get Zoe in bed, my two kids, I call them by the wrong names. So Kawhi and Kyrie would just be disaster. Denver.

• 12:07Bill Simmons?

  Who do you think I have for Denver?

• 12:08Speaker 01

  I think you have

• 12:11Speaker 01

  DeMar DeRozan?

• 12:13Bill Simmons?

  No, interesting choice though. DeMar DeRozan as six man, I did think about it. I have Aaron Gordon. I just think this, the sun rises and falls with Ashley Judd and Heat and Aaron Gordon in Denver.

• 12:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:25Bill Simmons?

  And they're just not even a contender if he's not a hundred percent healthy. I'm not even sure if they can swim in that deeper pool with San Antonio and OKC this year, even if he is healthy. But they have no, they'll drown without him being healthy. Thirty-one years old, 13th season, three years, 103 million left, which is not a disaster. Last two years, 51 games, 36 games, and he was hurt in the playoffs last year. And you know, the more I look at big picture NBA and the career longevity and all this stuff, it really, once we get into the 30s with these guys now, it just seems like there's so much wear and tear.

• 13:03Bill Simmons?

  Guys have longer careers, but I think from a durability standpoint, way worse bets, especially when there's been recent injury history. And I, I just really am concerned that he's gonna ever be the guy that, you know, in our head, we think he is, right? What do you think?

• 13:19Speaker 01

  I think we have that conversation about where your prime is these days, a lot more around stars, right? It's like, how long can you really carry a team? Can you do it even at 32 anymore? Or is, do you need to be in that more like 26 to 30 window? Aaron Gordon's a different case, and I think he's a different case in part because the Nuggets found themselves in a position where they relied on him for literally everything. They're like, oh, you're our best perimeter defender, and you're our best backup center, and you're our best spot-up shooter, and you're our best dunker-spot finisher, and you're our best connecting passer, who isn't Nikola Jokic? I guess just do all of that stuff all the time until your body breaks down. And they, they tried versions of that, even trying to moderate his usage over the course of the year. But he's too important to everything they do to use him in any kind of minimal way.

• 14:01Speaker 01

  And so I'm with you, he's one of the best kind of supporting role players in the league. If you wanna, if, if that's not too much of an insult to lump at Aaron Gordon, one of the most important players in the league for that reason. I just, I think Denver has too many ifs stacked on top of each other, you know? If Gordon is healthy, healthy, if Christian Brown bounces back, if Cam Johnson continues to, to play well as he did at the very tail end of last year's playoffs. There's, there's just a lot riding on a lot of different factors that makes me pretty nervous.

• 14:29Bill Simmons?

  So you're telling me you don't want a condo on Whitmore Island? Cause we do have electricity and running water again, so nothing for you yet.

• 14:36Speaker 01

  I, I sold out hard when the Washington Wizards said, you're not fit to be a Washington Wizard.

• 14:41Bill Simmons?

  No interest in Whitmore Island?

• 14:43Speaker 01

  No.

• 14:43Bill Simmons?

  So you've unsubscribed to our mailing list?

• 14:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:46Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 14:46Speaker 01

  I respectfully, you know, I've, I've been in there for a long time. They did good work, question mark, I guess, but that ship has sailed for me.

• 14:54Bill Simmons?

  I can't quit. I mean, I saw a couple of the highlights.

• 14:57Speaker 01

  Saw one, one dunk, one backdoor cut.

• 15:00Bill Simmons?

  I was like, oh, what if he could just carry the offense for five minutes?

• 15:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:03Bill Simmons?

  DeRozan as an overqualified six man to carry an offense for six, seven minutes? We, I went on a group chat for a couple of teams with you guys for the previews. We talked about New Orleans and we talked about Memphis. And we talked about Zion as like, maybe that's just what his destiny is to be the most overqualified six man of all time, who comes in for eight minutes a half, and you run all the offense to him, and the other team is actually like, oh, fuck, this is now the Zion stretch of the game, we don't really, and that's just kinda who he is, way too overqualified. DeRozan is not as overqualified as that, but it is a good, I think, thing for this point of his career, I would say.

• 15:42Speaker 01

  I think it was a great thing for two seasons ago, probably. Like, if you think about DeMar coming off of his Chicago Bulls run, and if he would've gone straight into a six-man role with a contending team, that would've been perfect. He's, he's still very good, he's still, look, he's still very qualified to do all of the DeMar stuff. As far as like one-on-one moves, manufacturing tough shots in space, you're gonna be hard pressed to find any bench player who's as good at that stuff as he is. But is, is he gonna be able to fit into the movement of Denver's offense? Do they even want him to fit into the movement of Denver's offense? And is he, is he gonna be capable of, you know, say like Jamal Murray misses a significant amount of time, which he last season accepted is ought to do?

• 16:22Bill Simmons?

  Likely, he probably will.

• 16:23Speaker 01

  Like, is that a, a good second pillar to counterbalance this stuff off of Jokic? Like, that might be too much to ask of him at this point.

• 16:31Bill Simmons?

  Maybe they should, maybe we gotta figure out a name for this type of player. Because this season is so long and guys miss so many chunks that you need these extra guys who can carry the offense. Basically, the best version of what Peyton Watson did last year for them, when they had all those injuries. And he's like, alright, I'll drive the car.

• 16:47Speaker 01

  Twenty a game for a week, you know?

• 16:49Bill Simmons?

  For two weeks. But there's a lot of guys in the league who can do that now. Golden State. I hate doing this, but it's gotta be Porzingis, just because it was such a weird contract to begin with.

• 17:01Speaker 01

  Bizarre.

• 17:01Bill Simmons?

  And this was a team that did not have a lot of bullets in the holster for summer movement. For, I, I don't think anybody knows what they wanna be. Their over-under win totals in the high 30s. Curry's basically made it clear, I'm never leaving, which gets tough. Cause now, now you're the spouse in a bad marriage who's like, well, I'm never leaving, we're never getting divorced. It's like, okay, I, I don't know what happens now. But they gave him 20 million this year, 20 million next year, but only three's guaranteed. A, who were they bidding against? No idea. B, he's 31 years old, he's played 60 games once since 2017. He's only played 28 playoff games total. How many total minutes do you think he's played in his career?

• 17:46Speaker 01

  Oh my God. It's really not that many.

• 17:49Bill Simmons?

  It's a brain buster.

• 17:50Speaker 01

  What, what, sorry, what's his total career length? How many years?

• 17:53Bill Simmons?

  Total career minutes and total career length is, I think, 2015 draft?

• 17:59Speaker 01

  Oh my God.

• 17:59Bill Simmons?

  Something like that?

• 18:00Speaker 01

  I have no even bearing for how to guess it, cause he's missed full seasons or most of them. I think he's, God, I don't even have a benchmark for it. Where is he?

• 18:09Bill Simmons?

  16K.

• 18:12Bill Simmons?

  Andrew Wiggins has almost as many points as Kristaps Porzingis minutes.

• 18:17Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 18:18Bill Simmons?

  It's an actual stat. And he has this mystery illness again.

• 18:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:22Bill Simmons?

  That he's now had for the third straight year, that I don't, they went through this last year with them. But I just don't think they could afford to waste a bullet on this, and they did. And now it's like day-to-day, like they were with usual. They're spending $122 million this season on Porzingis, Draymond, who just looks like he's out of shape, Moody who's hurt, and Jimmy Butler who's hurt. Hundred twenty-two million. And the cap's like 180. So I don't wanna cross this team off or as a playoff team, but I, I don't see a roadmap where they're a playoff team, do you?

• 18:53Speaker 01

  I think they're gonna have a really hard time getting through the regular season in one piece and getting through all of those injuries without overtaxing Steph in the process. And so whatever you think of Kristaps Porzingis, and I think the Warriors are pretty guilty of over-indexing on like the best version of the healthy guy that they think they're signing, right? Like, the good version of KP is a player who really helps Golden State.

• 19:14Bill Simmons?

  They did this with Horford too, by the way.

• 19:16Speaker 01

  That's the thing.

• 19:16Bill Simmons?

  It's like, once a week, great.

• 19:18Speaker 01

  And, and Horford, again, Horford at his salary level is one thing, KP at his is another. Signing Porzingis under these circumstances, when you knew Butler was out, and you knew Moody was gonna be out probably until January, and you still decided to do this, I, I just, I, it's inexplicable. And then it's even more inexplicable for Mike Dunleavy to sit up there at media day and in some of these availabilities and talk about, you know, waiting for the right opportunities and the conservatism of not using all their bullets at this point in time. Like, if not now, when? Especially when you're using one of your bullets, one of your salary slots, some of the investment of this roster and its resources, in a guy who we just literally do not know, and I mean this in no way to disparage Kristaps Porzingis, if he is going to be healthy enough to contribute to the team.

• 20:01Bill Simmons?

  And on top of it, I, you know, Quentin Post doesn't go to the Hall of Fame, but Memphis squeezed them with this RFA for Quentin Post. They had to let him go. It was only like seven, eight million, I can't remember what the exact number is, but it was less than 10. So they let him go because they'd already committed this money to Porzingis. I can't remember what their mid-level situation was, but when you think that somebody like Mitchell Robinson got 15 million.

• 20:24Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 20:25Bill Simmons?

  You know, and Porzingis is, just 20 million's a lot of money in the second apron NBA. That's what Io got per year, that's what Peyton Watson got, that's the range you're swimming in, and those guys are much better bets to get minutes. Houston. Reid Shepard. And Houston, by the way, could add eight guys.

• 20:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. I think Fred has to be in this conversation too.

• 20:44Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, but Fred, I, I had him and I was like, this is so obvious.

• 20:48Speaker 01

  It's too clear.

• 20:49Bill Simmons?

  It's like, can he come back from an ACL? Reid Shepard, he's 22. They're almost on the Jonathan Kaminga Warriors timeline with him, where there's two different teams. And you could trade him and maybe get the asset that helps this veteran team with Durant, Marcus Smart, all these guys. Or you bank on, you're trying to build his value up. But like, in the playoffs last year, he was 29%, took nine a game from three. 29%, he was just terrible, one of the reasons they lost series. Last year, he made 227 threes, and Houston was still 25th in made threes. So they actually need his shooting.

• 21:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:26Bill Simmons?

  But they have Van Vliet back, they got Marcus Smart.

• 21:31Bill Simmons?

  Is he even gonna play that much? Like, I liked what I saw in stretches from Reed Shepard last year, and I think he's kinda what they need in some ways, but then in other ways was one of the reasons they got in the mess there in the first place. So I just don't know what happens with this guy this season.

• 21:46Speaker 01

  I'm hoping that needing him less makes him play a little better, right? Like, if he was feeling a little pressurized in that role of like, this is my one year when Fred is hurt and the team is desperately looking at me to hit shots because so few guys on this roster can. Maybe something about that, that mix just like did not bode well for him or led to some of the inconsistency, but the things we saw in the playoffs were decision-making issues as much as anything. It was inexperienced, he was not ready for those moments. For a team that, again, like to your true timeline point, there's, there are lots of young elements of this Houston roster. There are a lot of guys who are still coming into their own. And then there's your 38-year-old best player who has to be leading a team that's good enough to compete now, and Reed Shepard was not good enough to compete now.

• 22:29Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. The way college sports is now, I wonder, like, would he have just stayed in college for a couple more years? Made some NIL money. He ended up being a top-three pick, so the rule is you have to come out on your top-three pick. But I look at somebody like Pritchard, who was in college for a while and came in, then was on the bench for a while and turned into who he turned into, and it was a slow bake. It took forever. Reed's the other way. He just gets thrown in, but I think has some of the same kinda skills that would succeed with, like, Pritchard did. And I don't know, and it's also, I went through, I was like, there's gotta be some awesome trade match for him. It's really hard to find a team that would want a young point guard in that 11 to 14 million range that's got a big extension coming up, that isn't already messing around with a point guard?

• 23:13Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 23:14Bill Simmons?

  You know, and it's like, Memphis?

• 23:15Speaker 01

  But also, should-

• 23:16Bill Simmons?

  Golden State? I don't know.

• 23:17Speaker 01

  Do we really think Houston should be doing that? Like, why wouldn't they just hold on to him and see if he can pull it together a little? Like, it's not like he was a disaster in the regular season. He was a really important part of their offense, some because of deficiencies elsewhere, but his shooting and the impact of it is pretty unique. And I think there's gonna be, it's gonna ebb and flow, it's gonna come and go. The question is, is he gonna have the rest of the game to sort of stabilize his contributions on the floor? Is he ever gonna hold up defensively? Is he gonna be able to run a team of his own? Is he gonna turn into enough of a threat as a movement shooter where teams start freaking out when he's flying around the floor? To me, those are the bigger questions, and if you can get two out of three, that would be gold. If you can get one out of three, that would still be pretty good.

• 23:58Bill Simmons?

  I'd love to see him be Pritchard for them. Like, where Pritchard was in 2024 range.

• 24:03Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 24:03Bill Simmons?

  You know, come in, instant offense, you're not counting on him, but when he, when he does well, it's a bonus, and that's probably where he should be. But the problem is, the reason I mentioned Kaminga, is this is kinda the Kaminga thing, but, but you end up losing your value because you're in a situation that doesn't fit you. And two years later, all of a sudden, nobody knows what to do.

• 24:22Speaker 01

  Well, and a, and a coach who doesn't fit you most of the time.

• 24:25Bill Simmons?

  Right. Clippers, I had Garland for the Clippers. We can, we can zip through this. He's, you know, he averaged a 24 and 8 for the 2025 Cavs and shot 40% for 3. This is a really good basketball player. First time he's really ever had his own team. The team's not gonna be that good, but everything I'm seeing, hearing, watching, even like his reaction to when Max Strus got hurt in preseason, like, this is his team. I'm excited for him, I wanna see what's there, cuz I've always been a huge fan.

• 24:57Bill Simmons?

  But it feels like a career year and a bad team would be, would be my guess. And then how do you fit in with Wogler would be the thing to look at if you're them. Can, can those two guys play together, and if they can't, what do you do?

• 25:08Speaker 01

  Offensively, I have very few doubts. Defensively, just a world of them.

• 25:14Bill Simmons?

  A tsunami of doubts.

• 25:15Speaker 01

  Too small and too slow is a really tough combination to put out there on the wing. But I, I think with, with Garland, like, I've been a believer in him as a playmaker for a long time. And some of what he was asked to do in Cleveland was, you know, find really elaborate solutions out of like tough spacing problems, possession after possession after possession, working off Donovan Mitchell. Great to draft off of the attention that he draws, but also kinda difficult for another ball handler, especially if you are a more traditional point guard type like Garland is. I think he is an elite, elite shooter, who has only kinda shown that in flashes so far. And so if, if he kinda pulls it together there, and most importantly, can stay healthy, that's the part that I think makes all of us pretty apprehensive. It's like, he just hasn't played many full seasons at all, if any at this point.

• 25:59Speaker 01

  And so how do you build around a guy like that? How do you let him be the leader of your franchise and your team? I know the Clippers are short for alternatives, but it's just, it's, it's tough when you have that kind of baked-in unpredictability of, how much time is this guy gonna miss between 10 and 30 games this season?

• 26:15Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's, the Garland defenders would say, some of the injuries were bad luck.

• 26:20Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 26:20Bill Simmons?

  They were like getting hit in the face, like, things like that.

• 26:22Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 26:23Bill Simmons?

  They're not, it's not like a Zach Eadie situation where you're worried about, you know, this guy sprained his ankle, had stress fractures, like, what, he's 7'4". Actually, we'll skip ahead cuz Zach Eadie was on my list for, as my Memphis guy. We talked about him on group chat.

• 26:40Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 26:41Bill Simmons?

  11 games last year, 77 total, he's 7'4", 300 pounds. And I don't know what happened with going from a high ankle sprain to basically a year of injuries and surgeries trying to fix it, but the history of that, when we go basically 7'3" and up with centers over the last 50 years in the league, when we start operating on ankles and feet.

• 27:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:01Bill Simmons?

  I get super nervous. And yet, as we talked about in group chat, cuz we all like Memphis this year, the ideal situation for Zach Eadie, next to Boozer, with those guys just pounding the glass and then athletic swings, jumping around, and it's a team I'm really bullish on as like a better than a 29-win team, which is what they're being predicted to. What are you expecting from Eadie, though?

• 27:25Speaker 01

  I think when he's on the floor, he changes almost everything that happens. Uh, sometimes good, sometimes bad, really. You have to work around the fact that he's not the most mobile center. But when you think about their group and kind of what their guards can and can't do, having a giant center who everyone has to pay attention to because he's, I mean, less a lob threat than like an over-the-top pass into a tasteful layup threat, uh, but like having that guy where you have to pay attention to how he's positioned, you have to take away those passing angles as much as possible. I just think that makes Ty Jerome's job that much easier and makes Scottie Pippen Jr.'s job that much easier. Guys who are like really good scorers and high-effort players, but not visionaries as far as like running an offense goes. And so Memphis is at that stage where they're trying to cobble together talent, they're

• 28:10Speaker 01

  trying to figure out who the pillars of this franchise are gonna be, and what they're lacking is that sort of like all-eyes-on-me talent. And I'm not saying Zach Eadie is that in terms of the production, or he's gonna be a future MVP or anything like that, but he, he demands your full attention, he demands a place in the scouting report, and that's something that's really valuable for them, even for as great as Cam Boozer is gonna come in, and I think we expect him to be right off the bat, he's a different kinda player.

• 28:35Bill Simmons?

  So your all-eyes-on-me guy isn't Quentin Post?

• 28:38Speaker 01

  Somehow not. I think you may be the foremost Quentin Post supporter.

• 28:42Bill Simmons?

  I always like stealing guys from other teams.

• 28:45Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 28:45Bill Simmons?

  And I just wish the NBA was way more cutthroat with that stuff, as I've, I've talked about many times. I never understand why everybody's so helpful with everybody else. To me, if I was in the NBA, it would be a zero-sum game.

• 28:55Speaker 01

  I'm with you.

• 28:55Bill Simmons?

  I'm just trying to drive up contracts and make my competitors worse off.

• 28:59Speaker 01

  But if you're stealing guys from like the 10th-best team in the Western Conference, and they're like, I don't know, you know?

• 29:06Bill Simmons?

  It's like 8, 8 billion, whoa!

• 29:08Speaker 01

  Quentin Post is fine. I, I really, I mean, gold, he's honestly more important to Golden State than he is to Memphis, cuz Memphis has so many bodies, Golden State has near, doesn't have nearly enough of them. But Zach Eadie forces you to be a little bit more cautious in terms of your second and third bigs.

• 29:24Bill Simmons?

  I'm excited to watch him. All right, quick break, then we'll finish. The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. Here's something to look forward to between kickoffs this Sunday. With Sunday Spectacular, FanDuel Rewards Club members can unlock exclusive rewards throughout the day with offers tailored to their Rewards Club level. Depending on your level, you can unlock things like profit boosts, reward boxes, points boosts, challenges, choose your reward offers, those are really cool, by the way, and much more. The best part, new rewards drop throughout Sunday games, so there's always something new to discover as the day unfolds. Check out Sunday Spectacular in the FanDuel app, only on FanDuel Rewards Club. Make this your most rewarding season ever on FanDuel.

• 30:08Bill Simmons?

  21-plus select states or 18-plus DC or Wyoming. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER, or call 888-789-7777, or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Football has a play for just about everything, and whether it's a flea flicker or a tush push, you need a plan that fits your unique situation. That's why State Farm takes the time to get to know you, so they can help personalize coverage for your life and for your budget. Now, that's a solid game plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. All right, coming back. I told you, if you had any backpocket guys to bring them to the pod, I don't know if

• 30:50Bill Simmons?

  you wanna do that at the midway point here or at the end, your call.

• 30:54Speaker 01

  Well, how, how deep do you wanna go with these cuts? You know, I think we-

• 30:56Bill Simmons?

  Listen, this is just Rob Mahoney's list.

• 30:58Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 30:59Bill Simmons?

  You can have, there's, I have no parameters. It's two or three guys that you're just, just looking at.

• 31:05Speaker 01

  Eadie was on my list as well. Jaren Jackson Jr. on my list, another former Grizzly.

• 31:11Bill Simmons?

  I have, I have him on my list as well.

• 31:13Speaker 01

  Should we save him for when we get to Utah, or you just wanna go to it now?

• 31:15Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, let's save him.

• 31:16Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 31:16Bill Simmons?

  Keep the alphabetical thing in place.

• 31:18Speaker 01

  Lot of thoughts about Jaren. Darren Fox on my list. I think we, we talk all the time about when is Dylan Harper gonna straight-up take his job, and maybe not enough about how does a veteran off of one, his first significant playoff run deal with the failure of blowing it in crucial moments? And is he a guy who can put it back together on the fly and, and maybe stave off Dylan Harper, at least for one more season? I'm eager to see, so he's on my list as well. And Denny Avde is on my list as a guy who had all of the control, all of the reins last season, all of the opportunity to drive to his heart's content, and now will probably be asked to, you know, clean up after two guards who can't really defend anybody and also kinda go back into his box.

• 32:00Speaker 01

  I'm sure he'll still drive and be plenty involved, but a much more complicated pecking order in Portland this season, to say the least.

• 32:08Bill Simmons?

  We'll be discussing that in a second. Minnesota. Oh, no, Lakers.

• 32:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:13Bill Simmons?

  I just had Kessler. We don't have to dive into this, but you know, he played five games last season. He had torn labrum, probably couldn't come back before the end of the year. To me, this is why stars shouldn't be GMs. Cause Luca was basically like, I wanted this guy.

• 32:28Speaker 01

  Cause he was, he was crushing jazz tape, like the five games and the previous seasons. Luca was like, I'm locked in a Walker Kessler.

• 32:34Bill Simmons?

  He must have liked him on NBA 2K. I guess my question is, would you rather have Kessler for 30 plus million a year for the next four? With your fingers crossed on his health?

• 32:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:45Bill Simmons?

  Or you just keep Deandre Ayton, sign Mitchell Robinson. They're making less than Kessler and you keep both firsts and both swaps. I get to keep both of, all four picks, basically. Is that enough of an upgrade to make me, am I trying to win the title with this? Like what? It, it just felt a little hail Mary-ish and the kind of thing you do when you're trying to appease your star, who has decided, I like somebody, get this guy here.

• 33:09Speaker 01

  So I don't know that Walker Kessler is like a hundred percent worth the full extent of that contract and most importantly, the, the draft consideration that went out.

• 33:17Bill Simmons?

  The draft collateral.

• 33:18Speaker 01

  That's, that's a lot. That's a lot for Walker Kessler, who I quite like as a player, but it's putting a lot on him. That said, I think appeasing your star is probably the single most important thing you can do as a franchise. And so Deandre Ayton is not a good basketball player, does not give you really anything of note in games that legitimately matter. Maybe in the, like a regular season matchup, it's on TNT, sure, but an actual playoff series, not a guy I want in my particular foxhole. And Mitchell Robinson, for as much as I love him and as much as he just showed in terms of the Knicks run, like you kind of want him in that sort of supporting role. You want to, you know, ride the incredible highs of the surges of his offensive rebounding and the energy and live out the lows where he's not available because of his own injury considerations.

• 34:01Speaker 01

  And so I, I get wanting to bet on Kessler, who's younger, who has a much higher ceiling than any of the guys we're talking about. And most importantly, if he makes Luca happy even like 5%, I think that's genuinely the most important thing the Lakers can do.

• 34:15Bill Simmons?

  See, this was the same logic of the Paul George trade. That's the part that worries me. It's like, you gotta make Kawhi happy.

• 34:21Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 34:22Bill Simmons?

  This is what he wants.

• 34:22Speaker 01

  Oh, I thought you were talking about the Celtics Paul George.

• 34:24Bill Simmons?

  Oh, no, no, no.

• 34:25Speaker 01

  It's like, who's being appeased here?

• 34:27Bill Simmons?

  The Kawhi one.

• 34:28Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 34:29Bill Simmons?

  Cause if, if I was running the Lakers and Luca was like, I really want Kessler.

• 34:33Speaker 01

  I'm sure.

• 34:33Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Maybe, maybe new ownership who might have a chance.

• 34:38Bill Simmons?

  I just would have been like, look dude, we're not going to win the title this year. Our goal is to sign Reeves to put you in the best possible situation to win. And try to strike for a third star. And we don't really love the summer market right now, so we can do this Kessler thing. But once we do this, we have no assets left.

• 34:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:59Bill Simmons?

  It's going to be really hard for us to make another move after this. So once we do this, this is our team. So just so you know, we think that's a mistake. We can patch together center, let's keep the picks and let's wait. There's going to be a lot of unhappy teams in January, February, and let's wait and let's strike for a star. We have some expirings, we have some trade stuff, let's do that. That's what I would have said, but what do I know? Who knows? Kessler might be awesome.

• 35:22Speaker 01

  I think the third star would be great. Look, there is, there is a legitimate chance that Kessler becomes an all defense level, or at least fringe all defense level guy for a good chunk of his career. That he turns into that sort of force of nature, holding down the middle in the exact way that they need. And those guys don't come cheap. They don't come easy. Like teams fight for them. And so that chance might be worth it, especially when, like, I don't want to pretend like Luca is 22 years old, right? Like he is in it now. We were just talking about what is the contending prime for a superstar? Luca's in it. And so you need someone who's right here, who's able to contribute in a way that a pick swap simply can't. And this was not a great market to go hunting for that, but it's the market that the Lakers had.

• 36:05Bill Simmons?

  I guess we'll see. Minnesota, we can go quick. I have Io for this. LaMelo would be the easy choice, but LaMelo's also averaged 50 games a year for his career.

• 36:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:15Bill Simmons?

  Two things with Io. One, he's LaMelo insurance, because LaMelo's not going to play 82 games and play 2, 2400 minutes. And if anything, you want to do what Charlotte did with him. Ease him in 28, 29 minutes a game. Please don't get hurt. You're on a little bit of eggshells of LaMelo trying to get into the spring. And Io really helps with that.

• 36:34Speaker 01

  Also probably Kaminga insurance too, because he lets you kind of slide Kaminga out if you have to put Jaden at the four and then play a bunch of guards out there together.

• 36:43Bill Simmons?

  So I don't know if you can get Kaminga insurance. I haven't called, but I think, I, I think it's impossible.

• 36:49Speaker 01

  But you don't think they're offering rates?

• 36:51Bill Simmons?

  I don't think they're offering rates for Kaminga insurance.

• 36:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:53Bill Simmons?

  I had what, written down though, what you just said. The biggest question for me, and Io is so important in this. Can they play Mello, Ant, Io, McDaniels and Rudy as their crunch time five? Can that work? How do you guard the Tatum type? I guess you use McDaniels to guard all the bigger forwards, but if somebody has two post-up players, now that gets a little interesting. But can those five guys play together successfully for eight months? I'm not ruling it out. I like those five guys together. It makes sense for me. They're shooting, they're spacing, there's some defense, Rudy can clean some stuff up.

• 37:26Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 37:28Bill Simmons?

  And that would be, if you're talking about the Minnesota upside, that and the threes would be, where you say like, I like that crunch time lineup. I like the threes would be the case. I'm still not there.

• 37:37Speaker 01

  I think that lineup will be a frequent part of their crunch time rotation and, and should be for all the reasons you laid out. And plus like, I trust Ant's ability to guard up, especially in those spots where yeah, you're going to have Jaden chasing around. Really whoever the top perimeter threat is regardless of position or, or if they play the four. And then if you need Ant to pick up a stockier forward, it's almost one of his better defensive like utilities at this point. Like give something to be hyper focused on, like stop this guy, this go-to scorer. He's actually pretty good at that. He's less good at the like lock and trail, a Steph Curry type as they run around the floor.

• 38:13Bill Simmons?

  Chase people around picks, yeah.

• 38:14Speaker 01

  Not his strongest suit, but I think that kind of focus, he could be really well used. And what I like about that lineup too, is it gives them a good opportunity to have a really productive sort of chaos. Where if Rudy can, can't hold down the defensive boards, which is a big if for this team in general, and a big if with that lineup especially. Then you think about the transition possibilities of like these playoff games that are decided by one long rebound that a team is able to convert into a crucial basket. And you have LaMelo Ball, Io Dusumu shooting like a rocket out in transition. Anthony Edwards, one of those explosive athletes in modern NBA history and Jaden McDaniels. Like I just think there's a, a good chance for that Wolves team to pick up a lot of the low hanging fruit

• 38:56Speaker 01

  that will make the rest of their stuff feel, like feel a little more free and easy.

• 39:01Bill Simmons?

  I like the point you made about Ant. Marcus Smart was like that. You wanted him guarding the six foot nine scorer guys. He was always better like playing up with those guys. Do you have Minnesota third?

• 39:12Speaker 01

  I think they are probably the third best team in the West.

• 39:16Bill Simmons?

  I will be revealing my choices on Tuesday. It's, can make a case for a bunch of different teams for three in the West. It's pretty difficult.

• 39:23Speaker 01

  Who, who do you believe in least of that group?

• 39:25Bill Simmons?

  Right. Who's the safest pick almost?

• 39:27Speaker 01

  Minnesota, Denver, Houston, Lakers, that might be it. There may be one more team in there that sneaks in.

• 39:33Bill Simmons?

  Knowing me, I'll talk myself into Jokic by Monday.

• 39:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:35Bill Simmons?

  I'm just like, what am I doing? This is generational, generational superstar. He's not going to be third, three seed. New Orleans Zion, we talked about it a bunch on group chat, including playoff game zero, averaged 39 games a year. Career averages 24 and 6, 5.7 rebounds last year. You're just not getting rebounds with him. The only thing I'd add.

• 39:58Bill Simmons?

  The Zion zone, I think we could name this.

• 40:01Speaker 01

  What is the Zion zone?

• 40:02Bill Simmons?

  You're too talented for me to want to trade you. But you're not reliable enough to get a good trade offer.

• 40:08Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 40:09Bill Simmons?

  You're just in the Zion zone. There's not even like, if you're doing trade calls, nobody even knows how to start. Like, well, you're going to have to blow me away. And then the other team's like, I mean, honestly, you're going to have to blow us away.

• 40:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:23Bill Simmons?

  And it's just, it's just like going back and forth, trying to figure out what his trade value is, which I don't think he has any.

• 40:29Speaker 01

  I thought there were a lot of like league conversations. I would want to be a fly on the wall for, or a bug on the phone call for. You know, starting with, you know, the Clippers under investigation. You know, the, the failed Chris Paul trade to the Lakers. There are many moments in NBA history, but honestly, the exact sort of like awkward foot dragging small talk that would lead into the Zion zone negotiation might be worth it alone. That might be a contender for me.

• 40:54Bill Simmons?

  It would be, I think my favorite part of being a GM. Like I'm the GM, you're the assistant GM, you're in my office. It was like, uh, hey, uh, Joe Dumars is on the line. Like, oh, okay. And then it's like, hey, what's up? Hey, how's it going in New Orleans? Oh, it's good. How's the family? Oh, it's great. And then he goes, so

• 41:15Bill Simmons?

  I just want to talk Zion for a second. And then we look at each other like, oh, put him on mute. Oh, here we go. Joe wants to talk Zion. Let's do it. Okay. I think my, the guy on my list I'm most excited to talk about. OKC, who do you think it is?

• 41:33Speaker 01

  Oh my God, who could it be? Well, we've talked about.

• 41:35Bill Simmons?

  So many options.

• 41:36Speaker 01

  We've talked about a lot of injury guys. So I mean, J, J Dub is right there, but I'm going to guess you did not pick him. I'm, based on the way you've been talking about your preseason consumption so far, I think you might've snuck a DiMarra into this list. Did you do that?

• 41:49Bill Simmons?

  I did check out his, uh, his, what is he? 15 for 15?

• 41:52Speaker 01

  I mean, just all lobs. I mean, if, if that's real, that's going to be terrifying. I have no, I have no bearing to know whether it is or not, or that's a thing that Thunder are actually going to call on. But even the fact that we have to talk about it is ridiculous.

• 42:05Bill Simmons?

  At least he's not going to be a bust just in the preseason. Like he's moving around nice and I'm sure he'll play. No, my guy's Kason Wallace.

• 42:11Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 42:14Bill Simmons?

  I think I have the most, the most floors in the Kason Wallace building between ceiling and floor for where I think this season could go for him.

• 42:21Speaker 01

  Okay. What, hold on. What does that metaphor mean?

• 42:26Bill Simmons?

  It means I'm prepared for this.

• 42:29Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 42:29Bill Simmons?

  And I'm prepared for, oh, we're in the same exact spot we were in last year.

• 42:33Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 42:33Bill Simmons?

  I thought we would have gone higher. I think he's like a 22 story building. 23 November, contract extension looming if things go well this season. Lou Dort's gone, Isaiah Joe's gone. They're low on wings that can defend. It's really just J. Dub and Caruso.

• 42:51Speaker 01

  I mean, but those are two of the best in the world.

• 42:53Bill Simmons?

  But I'm just saying, like, you were talking about a series and 48 minute games.

• 42:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:56Bill Simmons?

  So I think they're gonna need him a little more. Will he finish games over Mitchell and McCain?

• 43:03Bill Simmons?

  Is there more offense there? Is this somebody who should be playing 35 minutes a game? How are they gonna use the minutes around? And if he was at 25 minutes a game last year with Dort gone,

• 43:15Bill Simmons?

  could he be at 32 to 34 this year? And is he one of their four best players? I just, I have no answers for any of those questions. Do you?

• 43:24Speaker 01

  I think he probably is their fourth best player, but I think.

• 43:28Bill Simmons?

  That's where I landed as well.

• 43:29Speaker 01

  And I think a lot of that is just to do with Caruso's body and what you can reasonably expect of him. I think, I think Wallace is probably just a little further along in terms of comprehensive impact than A.J. Mitchell is, who I also quite like. But I'm with you about the offense. That's kind of the one I'm looking at. Cause clearly they trust him defensively. They should. He's a first team caliber perimeter defender. And, and to go off of last season and say, you know what, Lou Dort, we actually feel pretty solid here with Kason taking this job.

• 43:56Bill Simmons?

  Thanks for everything.

• 43:57Speaker 01

  Thanks for everything. An incredible vote of confidence and a deserved one. Offensively, he will have games when like Shay is out or Shay is just kind of like, you know, on the bench because the Thunder are kind of blowing somebody out. And he'll just rattle off like eight assists in a game like it's nothing.

• 44:11Bill Simmons?

  Well, remember that month he took over or three weeks or whatever?

• 44:14Speaker 01

  That's what I'm talking about.

• 44:16Bill Simmons?

  Looked like a, like a legitimately high end offensive guard for two weeks.

• 44:19Speaker 01

  He makes you dream of a time where he could be like the, the lead point guard on the Sacramento Kings or whatever. Before you realize that's a horrible thing to wish on anybody. But can he show any like capacity to, to walk the middle ground? Like, what is the zone of offense he gets to participate in? That's between Shay over here and J. Dub there and A.J. Mitchell here. And it's like operating out of the corners because you need the spacing, but also just a little more dynamic than he's shown so far in that kind of role.

• 44:47Bill Simmons?

  And is this team gonna play three guard a lot?

• 44:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:51Bill Simmons?

  I'm such a huge fan. I really, really want, I want to see more from him. And we've seen guys in the eighties being in situations like this, like McHale was in a situation like this. James Worthy was in a situation like this. Rodman was in a situation like this. I'm not saying he's on that level, but guys where you watch them and they were on such a good team with so many players. And they're playing half the game and you know that they would be starting on a lot of different teams. And the irony is Harper's in this situation too, where there's just so much more there. So I don't, I don't know how it plays and it's interesting because they've already won. And he's already sacrificed and there's money coming and they've already paid three guys. And I do wonder, are they gonna pay him? So next one, Phoenix, just really quickly, Devin Booker,

• 45:34Bill Simmons?

  who has four years and $250 million left on his deal. This is his 12th season. And he was first team all NBA in 22 and third team in 24. And he's been 26 a game for the last nine years. Three point shooting got worse last four years for some reason.

• 45:50Speaker 01

  It's so strange.

• 45:51Bill Simmons?

  The number one guy that you just assume in your head is shooting like 44% from three and it's 34% last four years. But is this just it? This is just what the rest of his career is gonna be like? He's just gonna be on mid level teams averaging 26 a game. And then later in his career, he'll go chase a ring somewhere like, do you kind of feel like we're mapping this out the way it's gonna go? Or is there a surprise in here for you?

• 46:15Speaker 01

  I, I wondered if there might be a surprise. And then to be honest, like the, the scale of that contract might have sealed it. Just because, like, I think it's every guy's right to chase after and wanna be overpaid, right? Like get as much money as you possibly can. Devin Booker, like get it. At the same time, it's gonna be really hard to build a contending team around him. Because I think it's, he's kind of on that cusp of if he's your number one offensive player, the ceiling feels pretty, pretty strict. Like you could maybe build an elite defense around him with just enough like supplementary playmaking. And then he's the killer who's sort of like Allen Iverson style, whills you to the finals. I just think that's a really tough life. It's maybe a recipe for like a one off run.

• 46:59Speaker 01

  But maybe Phoenix already had its one off run, you know, like maybe him and Chris Paul and McHale Bridges, that was it. And from here on out, it's just gonna be pretty good.

• 47:06Bill Simmons?

  That's where I landed as well. He kind of had his run. He proved that he could be on the biggest stage and came really close to winning the title.

• 47:11Speaker 01

  Yep. Two games away.

• 47:13Bill Simmons?

  That's a little different than ring chasing. There's so many guys who were just never even on that stage playing in those games. And he was, you know, one of the best five players in the league.

• 47:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:22Bill Simmons?

  He was number four in MVP one year. So the chops are there and he obviously likes being in Phoenix. So that's that. We could skip over Portland, but Ja Morant is my guy for Portland. I just, he's seven years, 327 games.

• 47:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. Genuinely, who is he as a basketball player in 2026? I really don't know.

• 47:41Bill Simmons?

  Last three years, 79 games, 29% from three. He's saying how he doesn't want to attack the rim in the same way because he wants to protect his body. It's like, well, that was the whole point of Ja Morant. No idea. Sacramento, mentioned Darius Acuff earlier. Not a lot of guys to be intrigued by Sacramento, although I know you're a big Maxine Renaud guy.

• 48:02Bill Simmons?

  Acuff and Sabonis. I want to see that, how that goes. I feel like that's gonna suck me in on random, like Monday nights at nine o'clock at night. And my hottest take of the season is just keep Sabonis. I want to see these two guys together.

• 48:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:16Bill Simmons?

  I know he's pricey at 45 this year, 48 next year, but perfect, perfect guy for Acuff. You're going nowhere anyway. Let's, let the young kid cook with somebody who knows how to pick and roll.

• 48:27Speaker 01

  I think, look, as far as training wheels go for a young point guard, especially a young scoring point guard, playing with Demontes Sabonis seems super fun.

• 48:34Bill Simmons?

  Sounds great. Perfect.

• 48:35Speaker 01

  If the Kings front office also gets pulled in in the way that you have, I, I think you just have to wonder about where, where it goes, right? Like cool for a year, maybe for two. But you're kind of idling in place so long as that is the case. And, and when do you want to move on? Like I, I'm kind of ready for that to be over and not just from like a person who watches and talks about the NBA. We kind of get bored of things. I just think it's run its course emotionally as much as anything for like him in that city with that team. Like speaking of teams that kind of had their moment and had their time, they had it, they blew it and everything fell apart. I mean, a real blip. And it's hard to find a good suitor for him and like a great landing spot.

• 49:15Speaker 01

  But I, I just don't know that much good is going to happen so long as Demontes Sabonis, for no real fault of his own, is a member of this team.

• 49:23Bill Simmons?

  Sounds like these, the, the Kings don't really light your beam anymore.

• 49:27Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 49:29Bill Simmons?

  Sorry, had to. Hey, Sabonis, next year is an expiring. This year's a bonus. Use him as the Acuff security blanket for a year. He's, it's a sub bonus. Next year expiring. San Antonio, Dylan Harper, we could talk about this for 10 hours or, or one minute. Just what, what, what month will he be the second best Spur in your opinion? What month of this season and will it be this season?

• 49:54Speaker 01

  I mean, you think, you think he's that far along?

• 49:58Bill Simmons?

  I could see by April, we're just like, shit, he's the second best Spur. I guess this just happened.

• 50:03Speaker 01

  I could see it, but Stephon Castle is great.

• 50:07Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I know.

• 50:08Speaker 01

  Maybe Dylan Harper, to your point, like climbs that far, that quickly. I think with him, I'm still kind of waiting to see and it may be a long time before we get real comprehensive answers to this. But like, how, who is Dylan Harper when he has to kind of manage the reads and the variables of a game? And he doesn't just get to be the off speed pitch guy who comes in and looks like one of the best drivers in basketball, but that's kind of his only job, right? Like, he's very focused. He's very precise in the way he operates. All that stuff is super valuable to them. But he doesn't have to make the hard decisions that Castle or Fox or Wemby do. And until that's the case, I don't know how comfortable I am calling him their second best player.

• 50:46Bill Simmons?

  I wonder if it's got young Kobe potential. So Kobe, his first year is basically Harper's college year. Second year for Kobe when he got voted into the All-Star game was, was last year. And then the third year with Kobe, that was when they traded Eddie Jones halfway through the year. They're like, oh shit, this is happening.

• 51:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:03Bill Simmons?

  Gotta, we gotta get rid of Eddie Jones. We gotta just, this is Kobe and Shaq is our destiny. Will that happen this year or next year with Harper? But it will happen. Last guy, we were both excited to talk about Jaren Jackson.

• 51:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:13Bill Simmons?

  All four years and $205 million of them. And he has to play the center for the first month for the Utah Jazz without Nurkic, which means he's gonna have to grab some rebounds, which have been a problem since he grabs less than a rebound and a half a quarter for the last three years of his career. What intrigues you about Jaren Jackson?

• 51:32Speaker 01

  I think just looking at his last three seasons, obviously had the trade last year also for a Grizzlies team that just was kind of a mess. A, a kind of blip intermediate season in between. And then the weird like absolutely lost season for the Grizzlies the year before with Ja and everything else.

• 51:47Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 51:48Speaker 01

  It's just been, it's been a minute since we've gotten to see him be in a stable competitive context. And it's weird to think that the Jazz are gonna be that, but he's a huge reason why. Like I think the glimpses of who he could be within Will Hardy's offense are very interesting. This is a coach and a style where I think if you're a ball handling big in any way, it just really suits you. It really locks into the way you can kind of tap into so many different actions, so many different movements. Like Jaren Jackson Jr. As like a stretch big is one thing. Jaren Jackson Jr. As a stretch big who's also running dribble handoff, who's also attacking the basket off the dribble, who has like the funky intermediate game. That guy's an awesome player and that's his worst side of the ball. And so I, I hope we get a real spotlight on that.

• 52:29Speaker 01

  And I think we're going to, especially with Nurkic's injury, which is a huge reason why I think he has to be the pick here.

• 52:36Bill Simmons?

  Peterson. It's, there's so many league pass themes this year. I'm just like, I just want to watch these guys for a couple of games, see what the fuck's going on.

• 52:43Speaker 01

  Do you think, I mean, with the, with the lottery odds shifting, how do you think that's gonna change our league pass diet? Like obviously later in the year, things could be dramatically different.

• 52:51Bill Simmons?

  I think it's gonna make February and March a completely different sport.

• 52:55Speaker 01

  Do you think it'll make December and Jan- like, at what point do you think we'll see the payoff of that? I guess is what I'm asking.

• 53:01Bill Simmons?

  I think it'll be, yeah, December, January range. The motto for me would be what happened with New Orleans last year where they had nothing to play for, you know, from a tanking standpoint because their pick was gone.

• 53:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:13Bill Simmons?

  And they kept playing hard and they actually started gaining momentum. That's what we're losing or that's what we lost with the tanking stuff. You, you weren't building momentum near the end of the season because you were trying to bench all your guys and come up with fake injuries for them. And you weren't having that like late charge. And I think that's gonna happen with a couple of teams this year.

• 53:30Speaker 01

  When, and Utah, I mean, Utah could be the team to watch in that regard. Like they've been on the brakes for so long and we'll see what they're capable of.

• 53:38Bill Simmons?

  Favorite TV show right now?

• 53:40Speaker 01

  I mean, we're, we're still finishing up Slow Horses. So I think it's still gotta be that for me.

• 53:44Bill Simmons?

  Say hi to Joanna. Say hi to the group chat guys.

• 53:46Speaker 02

  We'll do. What do you watch in though? What are you locked in on?

• 53:49Bill Simmons?

  I just finished Last Scene because as you know, I watch every kidnap show.

• 53:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:53Bill Simmons?

  There's a dramatic season finale. And, uh, and that was the one. And then I really liked War. I thought War was good.

• 54:00Speaker 02

  I've heard amazing things about War, honestly.

• 54:01Bill Simmons?

  Anytime you guys do it on Prestige, I'm available.

• 54:03Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 54:04Bill Simmons?

  Just send the bat signal. I'm ready to go.

• 54:06Speaker 02

  We got you.

• 54:07Bill Simmons?

  Rob Mahoney, thanks. We're gonna come back with Tom Pelissero after this. This NFL segment brought to you by Uber Eats. Tom Pelissero is here. You can hear him on the Ring of NFL Show. You can read his fantastic newsletter, The Sweep. Uh, I got an email question I was gonna throw at you.

• 54:22Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 54:23Bill Simmons?

  Before you do the six pack for us. It's from Rob in Plymouth, Massachusetts. Wants to know why the Vikings don't get enough credit for their horrible quarterback situations since 2010. And since you're in the heart of the beast there in Minnesota, he listed all the quarterbacks since Brett Favre.

• 54:41Speaker 02

  You want me to try to, you want me to try, hold on. You want me to try to get them? I can go down the list.

• 54:45Bill Simmons?

  It's, it's 18 guys. Can you do this blindly?

• 54:49Speaker 02

  Yeah. All right. Joe Webb, you said one. Donovan McNabb.

• 54:54Speaker 02

  Christian Ponder.

• 54:55Bill Simmons?

  First round pick, Christian Ponder.

• 54:56Speaker 02

  We're talking only guys who play, not guys.

• 54:58Bill Simmons?

  You've done this out, you've done this in order now. So who's next? Yeah, they had to have played.

• 55:02Speaker 02

  They had to have played.

• 55:03Bill Simmons?

  They had to have started a game for the Vikings.

• 55:05Speaker 02

  Right. Uh, Matt Castle.

• 55:09Bill Simmons?

  Still in a row. That's five.

• 55:10Speaker 02

  Teddy Bridgewater.

• 55:12Bill Simmons?

  There's six. Another first round pick, although his leg did explode.

• 55:16Speaker 02

  Correct. Which then begat Sam Bradford.

• 55:19Bill Simmons?

  Ooh, you missed one.

• 55:20Speaker 02

  Well, hold on. Let me go, let me get through the starters. Then we gotta cycle back. Bradford and then, uh, Case Keenum.

• 55:27Bill Simmons?

  Yep. Let him walk.

• 55:30Speaker 02

  And that brings us to 2018, which was Kirk Cousins.

• 55:33Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 55:35Speaker 02

  Kirk was mostly healthy. Then when he got hurt, we saw, um.

• 55:41Bill Simmons?

  This is really impressive.

• 55:42Speaker 02

  Uh, Jared Hall.

• 55:45Bill Simmons?

  Yep. There's a couple others you missed.

• 55:49Speaker 02

  Uh, Sean Mannion.

• 55:52Bill Simmons?

  I don't see Sean Mannion on this list. But this was a list from a mailbag listener.

• 55:57Speaker 02

  I think Sean Mannion, I want to say Sean Mannion started one game in like week 18. We'll double check it.

• 56:04Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 56:06Speaker 02

  All right. Let's get through the modern day ones. Obviously, uh, Kyler Murray, Carson Wentz.

• 56:14Speaker 02

  Max Brosmer.

• 56:15Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 56:17Speaker 02

  You also had, uh, obviously Sam Darnold, J.J. McCarthy.

• 56:23Bill Simmons?

  Yep.

• 56:24Speaker 02

  So how many am I at there? Is that like 13?

• 56:26Bill Simmons?

  You have 15. You're missing three.

• 56:28Speaker 02

  15. I'm missing three.

• 56:29Bill Simmons?

  You're missing the guy between Teddy Bridgewater and Sam Bradford.

• 56:34Speaker 02

  Between Bridgewater and Bradford. So this had to have been like.

• 56:40Speaker 02

  Oh, who was the backup in?

• 56:42Bill Simmons?

  His name is nine letters total, first and last.

• 56:46Speaker 02

  And it's not Jaren Hall. That, that came later.

• 56:48Bill Simmons?

  It was the great Sean Hill.

• 56:50Speaker 02

  Sean Hill, that's right. He started the game in between. That was after they traded for Bradford, but before he was ready. And then so Sean Hill started one game.

• 56:59Bill Simmons?

  A cup of coffee with Sean Hill. And then the other two you missed were the, uh, one and only Josh Dobbs.

• 57:04Speaker 02

  Oh, of course.

• 57:06Bill Simmons?

  And Nick Mullens.

• 57:07Speaker 02

  And Nick Mullens.

• 57:08Bill Simmons?

  So Rob in Plymouth wants to know, why does Minnesota not have better PR with the terrible quarterbacks they've had? And Cleveland gets all the PR for this.

• 57:16Speaker 02

  I mean, he's only saying the one since Favre. Favre lasted like a year and a half until he broke down. Prior to that, it was, uh, Tervoris Jackson was a primary starting quarterback. Uh, Spurgeon Wynn was a starting quarterback at one point. But you could honestly go back to basically since Dante Culpepper. Dante had a good five-year run and then suffered that horrific knee injury.

• 57:39Bill Simmons?

  Randall and Culpepper back to back. Yeah.

• 57:41Speaker 02

  Yeah. Randall Cunningham, who took over for an injured Brad Johnson early in 98 and didn't give it back. The Vikings' best runs have always been when the guy they thought was the guy got hurt and was replaced. You had a long run with Cunningham through 98 and into 99. Then he got hurt. Jeff George took over. Uh, 2009, I guess 2009 was Favre all the way, but 17 was Case Keenum taking over for Bradford. So more often than not, yeah, they've.

• 58:09Bill Simmons?

  Lightning in the bottle, which is not happening with Kyler Murray, Kyler Murray so far, which brings us to the six pack. You had six things you want to talk about.

• 58:16Speaker 02

  Bring it on.

• 58:17Bill Simmons?

  The Vikings are 4-0. They are headed for the classic. They'll go 12-5 and be underdogs in round one, and nobody will believe in them the entire time. And there will be 14,000 advanced stats saying why they shouldn't have the record they have. Um, how do they make this team better? Is there anything in the works? Do they believe in Kyler Murray? Like what, what, what are the next steps here? Cause you're 4-0 with a really good chance to go 5-0 this week. So what, how seriously do you take this?

• 58:44Speaker 02

  I take this Vikings seriously because they do play really good defense. Now, you know, some aspects of the schedule or even the weather in Chicago kind of timed up really well for them. But I do anticipate that they'll be, um, you know, selectively aggressive in terms of, um, pursuing at other positions. I mean, I think there's some obvious needs on the team, you know, setting aside the quarterback where I, I think that at this point, it's Kyler and Carson, unless something just plops in their lap. You know, running back, it's Aaron Jones, and then a bunch of guys that nobody's ever heard of, Demont Claiborne, but he's young. Um, you know, offensive line.

• 59:18Bill Simmons?

  Think about that. The quarterbacks, quarterbacks bottom five. I would say the running back situation is also bottom five. And their only impactful receiver, you know, their superstar has been hurt.

• 59:31Speaker 02

  Right. I mean, there's, there's a lot of ancillary factors to why it's had to be good. If you go back, you watch like the, the end of that game last week. That was the first time that Kyler kind of started to get in a rhythm, like especially with T.J. Hawkinson.

• 59:44Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 59:44Speaker 02

  He, he made some good throws. He made some good reads. Like that's what you're betting on is this guy's only played like three, two and a half games, right? As, as the starting quarterback of the Vikings. You're hoping that gets better, but you know, look at what they did this week, bringing in Odell Beckham Jr. Uh, in the wide receiver room. I, I think that that's a, it's a fascinating thing because this isn't like a favor to Odell. It's not like, ah, it's a flyer and he'll be on the practice squad for a week and then, you know, get us through to make sure everyone's healthy and then we'll move on.

• 1:00:11Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:11Speaker 02

  I think there's a real chance Odell Beckham Jr. Is playing actual snaps for the Vikings.

• 1:00:16Bill Simmons?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:00:17Speaker 02

  This Sunday against the Saints. Like people have watched the tapes say like, he still moves pretty good. He's 33 years old, but he still can run. Um, he knows the system because he was with Kevin, um, and Sean McVay out in LA where he was the best player on the field in the Super Bowl till he blew out his knee in that game. But he's a guy who can step in potentially as a veteran. I'm not saying he's going to go for, you know, 10 for 100 this week, but he's going back to his, his hometown. It's a real chance, depending if all the numbers work and how you put to care of the roster. Is Addison ready? Cause he had a hamstring, didn't practice yesterday. Is Jefferson ready? I think Odell may be up.

• 1:00:52Bill Simmons?

  And Hawkinson's not exact, not exactly Cal Ripken Jr. From a durability standpoint, so.

• 1:00:57Speaker 02

  He was the best, what did he have?

• 1:00:57Bill Simmons?

  He was all over the place last week.

• 1:00:59Speaker 02

  He had like 14 catches or something.

• 1:01:01Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:01Speaker 02

  Last week. So, yeah, I mean, he took that helmet to the knee a couple of years ago and that, uh, that sufficiently derailed him. He's a good player though, you know, out in space.

• 1:01:10Bill Simmons?

  I love when the, uh, after four weeks, I, I was devouring all the advanced metrics this week. And you always get, cause you now have enough to look at for like havoc rate, DVOA stuff like that. The Vikings had one of my favorites, 31st offense in DVOA and second in defense, which sums it up. They have the second best defense and the second worst offense. And guess what? If you're watching the games, that's how it feels. Um.

• 1:01:34Speaker 02

  Which is also hilarious. If you go back to week one, Carson Wentz comes off the bench cold and throws three touchdowns. I don't think they've got three passing touchdowns total since. It's been an interesting year.

• 1:01:45Bill Simmons?

  Speaking of, uh, broken offenses. Sean Payton. If you bet on FanDuel that Sean Payton would be taking over the play calling reins before Halloween, you won handily. So I guess he's doing it. I've, I've watched a lot of Broncos and I've been shocked by how bad their offense is for, I don't know. I kind of like some of the guys on the offense. And there was this passing chart that got sent around last week of Bo Nix. And it was like, you know, all the dots all over the field. Every dot, it was just these two clusters on the left and right side of the line of scrimmage going back and nothing at all over the middle of the field. And I was thinking like, I know this is the hardest professional league we have, and there's all this science and all this thought and strategy put into how you stop.

• 1:02:30Bill Simmons?

  But if I'm a defense going against the Broncos, it's like, well, he only does throws to these two spots. This is going to be pretty easy. So how do they fix it?

• 1:02:38Speaker 02

  You know, you have a, a confluence of things happening there too around him because Jalen Waddle, they traded a first round pick for him and like he's had the drops. He hasn't made the impact that they were anticipating him making. Corlin Sutton's been kind of invisible. Evan Ingram, they're not really running him downfield, which is what he does best. These are all reasons that you would think Sean, who from, you know, the halftime interview in week one, you could tell was biting his tongue to say what he would have done in those situations. Like you're right. I had so many people this summer. I mean, honestly, all the way back since the combine, probably 50 people in the league have been like, how long is that going to last with, uh, Sean not calling the plays in Denver?

• 1:03:15Speaker 02

  Like everybody knows Sean. He controls everything. He's involved in everything. And I think it's a misnomer to say that he hasn't been involved at all. Yes, he'll be calling the plays this week, but he's been in the meetings. Davis Webb had the hardest job in the entire league for the past four weeks of knowing that guy is standing there. If you have one of the best to ever do your job, standing 20 feet to your right at all times, how good are you going to be able to do your job? I'm not making excuses in any way for Davis Webb, but like everyone could see where this was probably going to go. Do you want to spin it positive for Davis Webb? He had to call plays for four weeks. He got that experience.

• 1:03:54Speaker 02

  And next year, if he's calling plays somewhere else or he's in the head coaching circuit again, he can say at least now, you know, I've done it, but is it a surprise? No, I, I thought it would last longer. I did. I did think Sean would give him more runway, but when they're, I mean, I think they're 27th in yards this season. You said 31st in DVOA. Like that's the type of stuff that makes you go, you know what? We, we can't go on like this.

• 1:04:17Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, they are. Well, weirdly, they're 15th in offense for DVOA, which I don't really fully understand. But I think a lot of it has been red zone stuff. And the game last week, you know, that was a 3-3 game. Guy blows the punt return, right? All of a sudden, it's 10-3, and it felt like an insurmountable. It was like, oh, no, the Broncos are down seven points. I don't know if they could get this back. I see, this is, this is why I like having you on, because sometimes conspiracy bill and, and hot take bill comes in, and you're just a nuts and bolts, you know, you black and white kind of information.

• 1:05:00Speaker 02

  Good balance.

• 1:05:01Bill Simmons?

  Talk to a bunch of, we're a good balance. The Machiavellian Sean Payton being like, I don't want this guy to leave, so I'm going to pretend he's going to call plays, but I'll just take it back in October. It did cross my mind. Yeah, yeah, no, no, you're going to call the plays. It'll be great. You should stay. But he just didn't want him to leave? And then zagged on him in a month? Like, I can't say I'm shocked.

• 1:05:23Speaker 02

  Well, I think that we talked about too, like, this was the organization wanted to do this. I don't think that Sean just came and said like, hey, I got a great idea. I'm not going to call the plays anymore. It was much more, all right, Davis Webb has head coaching interviews. He's got OC opportunities. He's a really bright young coach who's, he's really close with Bo Nix. We don't want to let this guy out of the building. Like Sean's what, 62 years old at this point? Like, not going to be around forever. But then after, all right, we agree. We're going to name him the OC. We're going to give him play calling. But then they signed Sean to an extension a few months later. So anybody who thought this was like the coach in waiting, and this was Sean kind of shaking the hand and moving into the distance, like, it was never going to be the case. He's, he's still a really good football coach.

• 1:06:07Speaker 02

  And part of his, you know, superpower, for lack of a better term, is he does have his hands in everything. Every aspect of the program, every trade. He is involved with all of it. And that's why it worked for as long as it did with the Saints. That's why he was a pairing with a, you know, a Mickey Loomis. George Payton, it took a little time, but those guys have forged a really good relationship. You know, I'm always skeptical, honestly, of when, if you're, if your superpower, more than anything, is calling plays. The thing you do best is call plays. Giving that up, it, it hamstrings you. You know, like, there's some cases, sure, you get to a certain point in your career, and you want to pass up. But Sean's tried it twice, did it once with Pete Carmichael. He did it now with Davis Webb. Shouldn't surprise anybody that he wants to get his hands back in it.

• 1:06:50Bill Simmons?

  Well, that's a good segue to the Chargers, because the, the bigger concept, which some people have talked about on different shows, is Harbaugh is the CEO coach. But I don't actually, I'm not actually involved in one or the other, but I, I set the culture and I do all these things. And that's, and does the CEO, CEO coach even work anymore in 2026? Is football too complicated? Like, as we saw, D'Amico Ryan's, he's taken the defense back this week. Payton's taken back the offense. If you're the head coach, do you have to have a specialty? Or can you just be like, I'm just here to run the ship and ship and set the culture? Does that work anymore?

• 1:07:28Speaker 02

  Well, one point that's been made to me is that financially, it's a lot harder. The top coordinators are getting paid so much money that if you come in and your pitch is, I'm just the, the figurehead. I'm going to set the culture. We're going to hire a bunch of really good people. That costs money.

• 1:07:45Bill Simmons?

  And then they leave if they get a job.

• 1:07:46Speaker 02

  And then they leave if they get a job, and you've got to replace them. I mean, there's coordinators now making four, five, six million dollars a year. So that's one more coach that you're having to give a big contract to, and you can't control it. And now you have turnover. I mean, John Harbaugh got a job last year. He's very much a CEO coach at this point. I think the challenge, I mean, there's many challenges that Jim Harbaugh has right now. But one of them is, you brought in this offense that you don't know at all. You have no foundation in the, you know, the Shanahan style, the Mike McDaniel scheme. And when, so when shit goes wrong, it's not like Jim can step in and go, I got this. Here's what we're going to do, and we're going to fix it. The way they, the play style isn't what Jim has done in the past.

• 1:08:28Speaker 02

  They've been a like, big guys, we're going to mash you both sides of the football. Mike is very much like a finesse. We're going to outrun you. We're going to have tons of motion, all these things going on. It's like philosophically, they never really, and personality wise, never really seemed like a match. So now you're sitting there at 0-4. I just don't know. I think we've talked about this, like, what, what you do. There's not a simple solution. If you fire Mike McDaniel, now who are you, you know, is Adam Gase taking over the play calling?

• 1:08:55Bill Simmons?

  They're starting a new offense.

• 1:08:57Speaker 02

  You're basically like trying to start a new offense in the middle of the season. You could go back to running your old concepts, but that's, that's so hard to do at like a global scale. Shane Day, the quarterback coach, has been there a long time. He's close with Herbert, so maybe you could try that.

• 1:09:11Bill Simmons?

  Well, you know what fucked them up is they're down 21 in that last game. I watched it.

• 1:09:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:09:16Bill Simmons?

  Game's over.

• 1:09:17Speaker 02

  And all of a sudden, they're starting to move in it.

• 1:09:19Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, Seattle just is like, we just don't want to get beat by a big play. So they're just taking everything short. They're going six yards, eight yards, seven yards, nine yards. And they have the super long drive just to cut it to 14. And got a little momentum, but Seattle was never nervous, and they lost by seven. And then I knew it. I knew I was going to be the dialogue the next two days. Well, the Chargers might have found something that second half. It's like, they found nothing. Seattle was, was basically just trying to get through the game without having an injury. You know, so I think, I think they're a mess. I don't think it gets better.

• 1:09:51Speaker 02

  I've talked to people who know like that offense, know Mike really well, who say like, they, they don't recognize some of the plays that are being run in the game. That's not to say Mike has totally changed his offense. It's more, everything is so disjointed. You know, they kept a lot of the same position coaches that were there before, who maybe didn't have that same background in the offense. So, you know, whether it's a guy getting hit running by on a shotgun snap, or it's guys not, you know, hitting their landmarks in the receiving. Like, it's a precision offense, and they're super imprecise right now. They're 0-4, they very well could be 0-6 at the bye. And then so the next step for the Chargers, if you get there. And I'm sure that they're thinking, Jim's saying, we're going to work harder, and we're going to, more effort and all the, you know, the usual things that he says.

• 1:10:34Speaker 02

  But if you're 0-6, look at their defense. Like, half their defense is older veterans who are all in contract years. So whether you're talking about Khalil Mack, Bud Dupree, Denzel Perry, and Dante Jackson, like, these are the guys, you're going to be getting calls on all of them.

• 1:10:50Bill Simmons?

  Trade machine team. It's time.

• 1:10:52Speaker 02

  Exactly. The Chargers who never, with a coach you're paying as much as Jim Harbaugh, that won 11 games each of the last two years. You're going to have to sit there and go, we probably need to do whatever deals make sense here, because we got to rebuild this thing. And then at that point, does it even matter? If you fire Mike McDaniel, like, at that point, ride it out, which I think is the default position here. Just go through it. Maybe you're playing better by the end of the season. Right now, they're not.

• 1:11:18Bill Simmons?

  Right. You didn't even mention Keaton Mitchell, because that's the guy that I think would be interesting. I think a bunch of pretty good teams to good teams need running backs. And like, Keaton Mitchell, Kenny Gainwell, guys like that. I think those are guys that are going to be, you know, looked at by some of the, some of the teams that actually. I, I look at Houston, who, was, were they on your six pack list?

• 1:11:41Speaker 02

  No, I don't think so. Surely they can get into.

• 1:11:43Bill Simmons?

  But I look at Houston, 0-4, but with a chance. They could be 4-4 in four weeks. But I don't really like their running backs, anyway. I don't know what happens to the Chargers. I don't know how they fix it. But I do, if I had to bet on Mike McDaniel making it to Christmas, my bet is no. You agree?

• 1:12:03Speaker 02

  Two, two big weeks ahead. I just, I don't know what you'd do, like, what the point would be of firing him? You could.

• 1:12:09Bill Simmons?

  Well, it's bad for him, too. It's bad for him. Like, he wants to be a head coach again at some point in his life. This is not a good situation. Uh, the Eagles were in the news a lot. Lane Johnson retires. I don't know if you watched that go through the ESPN cycle, but it was a doozy even for them. Then they trade Jurgens to the Ravens for a second round pick, which was just unbelievable, because they were playing him at guard, and he wasn't even doing that well. But he's better at a center, but they already have a center. And somehow, Howie turns that into a second from the Ravens, who needed a center. And now it feels like they might maybe be a tank team. I can't tell. But there's some Jalen Hurts stuff here, too.

• 1:12:55Bill Simmons?

  I thought Chris Long, friend of the Ringer, was on a Philadelphia radio station talking about, hey, Jalen Hurts, they gave him like the best offensive line possible and two awesome receivers and an all-world running back and maybe he's gonna have to start doing some stuff. Where do you see all the pressure points going with the Eagles the next couple of weeks here?

• 1:13:14Speaker 02

  Well, Jalen Hurts, he does have those things, but last week you had no Saquon because he got hurt. He had no Devontae Smith. Lane Johnson retired basically hours before kickoff.

• 1:13:23Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:13:24Speaker 02

  There were a lot of things. I don't think Jalen Hurts has been the, has been the issue so far. He's played okay for a guy who on paper-

• 1:13:31Bill Simmons?

  But this is why you pay a guy 50 million bucks, though, because you're hoping through thick or thin, he can carry.

• 1:13:36Speaker 02

  But he's also on paper not a fit for the offense that they're running. Like Sean Mannion's running that LaFleur Shanahan style of offense. And like, that's never been Jalen's game. And so, you know, from adaptability, like you want him under center a lot in that offense. Well, they're kind of piecemealing it where he's in shotgun more than you would normally be. Like, they're trying to find that balance. I think under the circumstances, Hurts has played okay. In the macro with the Eagles, Howie Roseman, other than, you know, maybe getting into the final game of the season and you decide you really need to see Nate Sudfeld because you can move up a few spots in the draft order. Like, they've never punted on a season. They've never gone AR. This year, we're taking a step back. Like, he's always going for it. He's now got two extra high picks in 2028, a first and a second.

• 1:14:20Speaker 02

  That could be because you're thinking you're gonna draft a quarterback sometime in the next couple of years. Also, knowing Howie, it could be, he still thinks if they can figure some things out here, you got the opportunity to go make a big splash and bring in a player at some point.

• 1:14:33Bill Simmons?

  Did Jerry Jones zigzag back and forth with the trade asset, give it for a different player?

• 1:14:38Speaker 02

  Jerry did it to an extreme degree.

• 1:14:41Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:42Speaker 02

  But it opens up a lot of flexibility. Like, the Jergens trade, which by the way, Eric DeCosta called Howie. They have a good relationship. Called him after the game on Sunday. This wasn't like some like master plan thing happening here. I think it was coincidental that it happened at the same time as Lane Johnson deciding to retire. But interior offensive linemen never get traded for high draft picks. It just, it doesn't happen.

• 1:15:06Bill Simmons?

  And so you had this- Well, they don't get drafted as high draft picks either for the most part, unless it's like a home run pick.

• 1:15:11Speaker 02

  Right. A lot of those guys, because you figure like, we can find a serviceable guard or center in the fourth, fifth, sixth round, unless you're, yeah, an all-pro, future all-pro, then maybe you go in the first or the second. Everybody else goes later. But you had the perfect thing lined up for this trade to happen, which was, the Eagles are going, this is basically for them, it was a negative asset. He's owed $16 million through the end of next season. He's playing out of position at guard because they really like Drew Kendall, who's on the minimum, playing at center. He's not very good or comfortable at guard. He's got an injury history with his, you know, he had the back surgery back in 2025. And so it was like, for them, you're gonna give us a future second round pick. Once it got to that, it made a lot of sense for him.

• 1:15:54Speaker 02

  But on the flip side of that, the Ravens had lost three centers in five weeks. So they are down to nothing. They worked out every able-bodied center last week. There's just nobody out there on the street. They think they've got a championship caliber team right now with Lamar. You need to have somebody in front of them to help. They think they've got a really good roster. And so they went in, they did the physical, they passed him on the physical. And they think like, for them, the way the contract's structured too, he's got really low cap numbers this year and next year. So even though they gotta pay him 16 million, he counts like a few million on the cap. So they think Cam Jergens is a long-term solution. For them, it's a huge positive asset. But for Howie, it reminded me of back in 2016, when Howie retook the throne after Chip Kelly was gone.

• 1:16:38Speaker 02

  And one of his first moves was he traded Byron Maxwell, who was owed all this guaranteed money because Maxwell was a guy that Chip wanted in there. He bundled him and Kiko Alonso and sent him to the Dolphins. Two guys they just wanted to be done with, sent him to the Dolphins and got to flip. I think they moved him to five spots in the draft to number eight. It's one of the great, Howie turning something that is absolutely negative for him into a positive. Like, it lined up here. And again, for the Ravens, they feel like they've got a solution, not just for the rest of this year, but fill it a problem spot that's been a problem since Tyler Linderbaum got all that money from the Raiders in free agency.

• 1:17:14Bill Simmons?

  Or they could have just signed Tyler Linderbaum and not been in this situation.

• 1:17:18Speaker 02

  23 million for a center, 28? What was the number?

• 1:17:21Bill Simmons?

  Raiders seemed pretty happy with him.

• 1:17:22Speaker 02

  27, I think it was.

• 1:17:24Bill Simmons?

  I like Howie runs Eagles the way I run my AL Keeper fantasy team with my buddy Hench. We'll trade assets, but then we'll also take the assets and go the other way. Nobody knows what we're doing. We're just, we're like one of those boxers that you don't know if we're a southpaw or a right-hander. And Howie could be like, he might be diving back in, trying to get people in a week.

• 1:17:43Speaker 02

  Every time that a trade gets, gets done, and I always try to have like the, you know, go back and talk to other teams, like who else was in it, like kind of how it had come together. And it's always like, well, did anyone else call? And the answer is always, well, Howie called, but Howie always calls. Like, he is in on every single deal. And then like, if somebody gets traded, they might get a call back being like, I would have done that. Why didn't you call me back? It's like, Howie, we never got there with you. But that's, that's part of his gift, is he always explores everything. And so-

• 1:18:11Bill Simmons?

  Well, you gotta do. That's the point of the job.

• 1:18:13Speaker 02

  Zigging and zagging, but it's, you know, for him, it's like, you may find opportunities where nobody else thinks, which is trading a right guard or whatever it is, a guard who's actually a center that you don't want. He's making a bunch of money and getting a second round pick.

• 1:18:26Bill Simmons?

  It's amazing he had a second. I know nothing about the trade charts and stuff, but that just seems like that should be a third-rounder. Like, seconds are, you know, premium guys usually. That's, that one really surprised me.

• 1:18:37Speaker 02

  And some GMs would say-

• 1:18:39Bill Simmons?

  But I think the Ravens must have felt like their season was gonna fall apart if they didn't do, get anybody.

• 1:18:43Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, because they were down to, they were playing Ione out of, out of position and they were having to move people. I mean, three center injuries is, is brutal. The one thing is like, a lot of teams and GMs historically have considered, if you trade a pick that's still a year out, you downgrade it by a round. So some people would look at this and go, oh, that's really a third. Because it's in 2028, not in 2027. But this is the second time in this offseason that Howie has essentially said like, a pick's a pick. I got a one for A.J. Brown and a two for Cam Jergens, and now we got all this ammo to keep building.

• 1:19:13Bill Simmons?

  Belichick used to do that. Quickly, D'Amico Ryan's taking over the Texans defense. I read a bunch of Texans. I have, that was one of my big picks. I picked him for the Super Bowl. I might have a couple of wagers on them. And everybody who, who, the smart football people who talk about them, talk about how much talent they have and then how predictable their defense is. And why, like, oh, man, can you imagine if so-and-so wasn't, had all of those tools that they have? And this was kind of his, his bones. This is how he got the job. So you talked earlier about Peyton, like when Peyton wasn't in charge of the offense, but kind of was. But what was missing? What made him have to be like, all right, fuck it, I gotta grab the steering wheel?

• 1:19:57Bill Simmons?

  Why, why didn't he do that sooner?

• 1:19:59Speaker 02

  Well, last year, he handed over play calling duties when they were 0-3 to Matt Burke, the same guy that he just took the play calling duties from. So there was every reason to think, based on how much they improved after that, that they would turn this thing around. What, what probably triggered it as much as anything is if you look at their losses, three of those four losses, they have a two-minute drive to put the game away.

• 1:20:21Bill Simmons?

  The last-minute choke jobs.

• 1:20:22Speaker 02

  And they blew all three of them. And that's really what it was. Now, D'Amico is also like, he's, he is hands-on. He trained under Kyle Shanahan. So Kyle has a ton of influence and is listening in on every meeting. It's the same thing with D'Amico in terms of like how involved he is. So it's not like he's coming in cold and it was just, you know, this is all on Matt Burke. This is one of those, to me, a change for the sake of change. You're 0-4, the owner's asking questions. Last time the Texans started 0-4, Bill O'Brien got fired on the Monday after. D'Amico is still in the job and you're trusting, all right, you pulled out 0-3 last year. You pulled out 0-4 this year. Well, what are you gonna do differently? The offense is actually playing decently, especially when Nico Collins is out there.

• 1:21:03Speaker 02

  They're a completely different team. Stroud's played, I think, overall pretty well.

• 1:21:08Bill Simmons?

  Stroud's been good, like point blank. Yeah, Stroud's been really, I think he's made really good throws. And it's not like his offensive line is incredible, but I think he's been really good.

• 1:21:17Speaker 02

  All right. So what do you do? Well, the only thing is, all right, I'm taking the play calling duties back. But it's just hilarious to me that the solution for the bad start is the exact 180 opposite of what it was last year. Last year was Matt Burke saved the season. This year, all right, we're, Matt, we're, we're-

• 1:21:32Bill Simmons?

  Well, you left out the even funnier part. You're doing it when they're about to play the Titans.

• 1:21:38Speaker 02

  Well-

• 1:21:39Bill Simmons?

  It's like, let me ride in, let me ride into my horse and save the day against Cam Ward.

• 1:21:44Speaker 02

  And Sean Payton's calling plays this week against the Chargers.

• 1:21:47Bill Simmons?

  Right, yeah.

• 1:21:47Speaker 02

  In full cases, maybe a good, a good soft landing for that first time out.

• 1:21:53Bill Simmons?

  All right, it's time. Drake May, you gotta do it. The last piece of the six-pack. I have a, I do have an email for you.

• 1:22:02Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:22:03Bill Simmons?

  And it is from Nico in Andover. Total interceptions and fumbles through 38 games. Tom Brady, 61. Drake May, 61. I'm just saying.

• 1:22:16Bill Simmons?

  Was added to that. Uh, I will fully admit, I was completely panicked about Drake May the last time we talked. Mike Vrabel spent the week being super aggro and, uh, building him up and being aggressive with the play calling in general. And it seemed like the entire theme of the week was, let's, let's go back, let's, let's, we gotta make you a gunslinger again. How do we do this? And it worked, but is it going to keep working?

• 1:22:42Speaker 02

  It, it was really just, hey, we're close. It wasn't like everything is wrong. That was, that was the theme that I took away. And when I was reporting for the sweep was just, nobody was like, oh my God, this guy's, you know, it's, it's just, it's gone so far afield. It was like, that week before they had five explosive pass plays and they narrowly missed. One goes off Mac Hollins hands, you know, like they had opportunities and there's bad luck. Like when the ball's covered in blood, you know, like that's just a weird thing that happens. Like that's not going to happen on a week in, week out basis. Now I was a little worried out of the gate when there's a couple of times he gets loose with the football, but it's just all those near misses kind of started to hit. He just seemed like he was in a better rhythm, you know, a big issue with him just early on.

• 1:23:22Bill Simmons?

  The scrambling was there too. Yeah. He just felt like he was aggressive and going forward.

• 1:23:27Speaker 02

  And he was scrambling at the right time. Like that was a huge part of it early on was just all the times where the plays there in structure and he's either getting sped up because he's pressing so hard or he's throwing to a guy who's not even supposed to be an option on the play. And it's like, dude, you can do less. You don't have to do this all yourself. Well, you know, last week like drops had been an issue in the early going as well. Like that stuff got cleaned up. It was a, it was a better overall team performance. I did like, especially after the whole, you know, the local radio thing of like, Mike Vrabel and Drake hate each other and that's the issue. And the post game, the post game locker room is, uh, Vrabel saying to Drake like, hey, we don't take any more fucking shit.

• 1:24:08Speaker 02

  Like that's, that's basically it was like, this was the, this was the bleep you game for everybody involved, you know? They got another, you know, interesting matchup this week, but it just, it felt like it flipped. They responded to all the negativity with positivity in the building because there's still a lot of good there. He's, he's not a turnover guy. I know he had been through the playoffs last year, but that's not his history. And let's see if he can, you know, build on that, build back that confidence. Cause really the only way you rebuild your confidence in the season is go out and actually see it working.

• 1:24:39Bill Simmons?

  I said this Sunday night, it, I felt Vrabel in the off season, training camp and all that. It seemed like a guy, because of all the stuff that happened with him, that had lost his mojo a little bit. And this team, the first three weeks just didn't seem like the Patriots from last year. It wasn't about the talent. It was something about the dynamic of the team. And that Buffalo game and all the shit Drake took locally and nationally, but really locally, I think was a galvanizing thing. It was like, all right, we gotta go into Buffalo. Like we gotta save our season. And I think Vrabel kind of found his voice again. You can see it from the videos. You can see it from how the sideline was reacting.

• 1:25:19Bill Simmons?

  The other thing was subtle. This is a super dorky Patriot fan thing, but they, they didn't really use motion at all the first three weeks. And I think they were at 74, 75% motion in, uh, in Buffalo. Partly because they wanted to confuse Buffalo, but also I think they didn't want Drake to like be checking down at the line or any of that. Like they just kind of wanted people moving around and him having to just do what the play said and not being, oh, should I do this? Should I do that? I think they felt like he was becoming too indecisive about what to do. And they were trying to take that away from him. So I'll be interested to see. McDaniel's will switch around every week. So who knows? But I'll be interested to see with Vegas. Are people going to be moving around? Because the first three weeks, they were very predictable.

• 1:26:04Bill Simmons?

  You could sit from your couch and be like, ah, second and three, here comes the run. And they didn't do that. They were zagging the whole game in Buffalo and I thought it was really good.

• 1:26:12Speaker 02

  The other thing that motion does for you is it moves more of your thought process from post snap to pre snap. Because you're, you're making them declare what coverage they're in and are they playing man or zone? I, I don't know. I haven't talked to anyone about that, but that would be one, you know, potential reason for that strategy is, all right, let's let him do all his thinking before the ball is snapped and then just go to the right spot.

• 1:26:37Bill Simmons?

  Right. Well, I think it worked. We'll see. Every, I'm in Boston this week. The, uh, the mood is a lot better.

• 1:26:43Speaker 02

  I would imagine.

• 1:26:44Bill Simmons?

  Than it was, uh, a week and a half ago. Uh, we'll see what happens where you are in Minnesota. The Vikings going for an improbable five and O. Uh, we'll, we'll watch and listen to on Ringer NFL tomorrow.

• 1:26:56Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:26:56Bill Simmons?

  And then the sweeps coming Saturday morning. But sneak peek of anything or no?

• 1:27:01Speaker 02

  We, we got a few things going. I just missed back to back calls from two different GMs. So hopefully they did, they're not making a trade as we speak. Um, but listen, it's that time of year, man. We're, we're getting really close to, uh,

• 1:27:11Bill Simmons?

  When is the deadline?

• 1:27:11Speaker 02

  The trade season being upon us, November 10th. But round week five, six, month out, that's when teams, because they start to know, are we good? Are we bad? Can we make a move? Should we sell everybody? This is about the time they start to figure it out. And so the phone calls, including to me, apparently, uh, ramp up a lot.

• 1:27:28Bill Simmons?

  We've never been in the breaking news business before. I gotta say it's a complete rush. I, I feel like I'm a new man. It's like,

• 1:27:35Speaker 02

  I'm glad.

• 1:27:35Bill Simmons?

  It's like driving on the highway in a convertible. I'd be like, yeah, tell Sarah Brokwin. Uh, good to see you. I'll see you next Thursday.

• 1:27:42Speaker 02

  Yep. Can't wait, Bill. Thanks.

• 1:27:45Bill Simmons?

  All right. My buddy Joe House is here.

• 1:27:48Bill Simmons?

  We are recording well before Bucks Cowboys on Thursday. We decided not to stay up late for that one. And, um, we're dedicating this segment to Eduardo, our beloved producer, social media, um, guy who, um, between the Chargers and the Padres, he's just gone. We don't know where he is.

• 1:28:08Speaker 03

  That Padres, that was tough.

• 1:28:09Bill Simmons?

  He's just gone.

• 1:28:10Speaker 03

  That was tough.

• 1:28:11Bill Simmons?

  We don't know. His family doesn't know where he is. We don't know where he is. He, he's just driving somewhere and hopefully he'll come back over the next couple of weeks.

• 1:28:20Speaker 03

  A dark place.

• 1:28:21Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. I think the Machado homerun, that wasn't a homerun, might've been the final nail in the coffin. After watching, um, Justin Herbert get hit 370 times. So anyway, we, our thoughts are with him and his family as, as we hope he's okay.

• 1:28:34Speaker 03

  Two, two homeruns that are, weren't homeruns.

• 1:28:37Bill Simmons?

  Unbelievable. How much baseball playoffs have you been watching?

• 1:28:39Speaker 03

  Decent amount. I've been betting here and there. I had a, a great, uh, Tuesday. What'd they say? Yeah. A great Tuesday.

• 1:28:47Bill Simmons?

  I think they've been really fun. I loved what the Rays did to the Yankees. It was exactly what I thought the Rays were going to do to the Yankees and they did it.

• 1:28:56Speaker 03

  I bet you did.

• 1:28:57Bill Simmons?

  They did it.

• 1:28:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:28:58Bill Simmons?

  And then they really did it. And then they swept them and the fans booed and Cam and Arrow did the broom thing. And then did the, the Yankees lose after the game in an interview? And I was just like, look, my Red Sox decade has not gone great and it's sad. I have to take these little victories like spite rooting against other teams, but I had a great time.

• 1:29:18Speaker 03

  You better get, you gotta get Jacko on. You gotta get Jacko on the pod.

• 1:29:22Bill Simmons?

  Uh, Jacko's been in hiding.

• 1:29:23Speaker 03

  State of the Yankees. We need to state the Yankees.

• 1:29:25Bill Simmons?

  Jacko is always invited and anytime he wants to invite himself on, he's ready to go. Dodgers Brewers is an awesome series and the Brewers like you, you know, when you see it, they have that little magic to them.

• 1:29:39Speaker 03

  They have it.

• 1:29:39Bill Simmons?

  You just feel like they're going to get the hits. The crowd's been great. So we'll see. And it's fun to root against the Dodgers who have just ruined baseball. It's fucking outrageous. Like the fact that we could have a Tampa Dodgers World Series. Hench and a couple of the guys at my Red Sox story, we were looking at the Tampa Rays spot track, all their salaries. It's like, you can't even believe it. Grisham would have been the most expensive Ray.

• 1:30:04Speaker 03

  Well, there is, I saw some of this in the, uh, the Twitter sphere. The teams that are remaining in the playoffs, most of them are like in the bottom 10 in terms of payroll.

• 1:30:15Bill Simmons?

  The Rays are 26th.

• 1:30:16Speaker 03

  Yeah. So there is an argument that, you know, we really need the salary cap thing, but it's, I don't know.

• 1:30:25Bill Simmons?

  Well, the Rays, one of the things they, you know, like they have Junior Campanaro, who's awesome. Who, if you, as an American league fan, he's one of the scariest guys in the league. The Red Sox got Roman Anthony. He was good for two months. They're like, here's a hundred and $10 million, whatever they gave him. They gave same thing to Christian Campbell. He hadn't even played a game yet. The Rays are like, Junior Campanaro, you're great. You're going to stay at $780,000 this year. Good luck. Play for your next contract. But they, whatever they do, they have this secret voodoo contract sauce with it.

• 1:30:56Bill Simmons?

  I have some mailbag stuff for you.

• 1:30:58Speaker 03

  Oh, my favorite.

• 1:31:00Bill Simmons?

  I thought you'd be more excited to talk baseball playoffs, but apparently not.

• 1:31:03Speaker 03

  I faded Chris Sale. I made a bunch of money fading Chris Sale.

• 1:31:06Bill Simmons?

  Smart.

• 1:31:07Speaker 03

  You know, it's not out, not available anymore.

• 1:31:10Bill Simmons?

  Mailbag question. First one says, I love House. I miss House seats.

• 1:31:15Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 1:31:17Bill Simmons?

  I miss House seats too. And you can't see it because, uh, a little after I left ESPN, for some reason, because they were vindictive fucking shithead assholes, they liquidated our Grantland YouTube channel. I still can't believe they did it. There's four years of videos that we did that were, a lot of them were ahead of their time. They were just like, fuck it. We'll just, uh, uh, liquidate all of it. So, uh, they can go eat a big fat dick.

• 1:31:42Speaker 03

  Hey.

• 1:31:43Bill Simmons?

  Anyway, Jack Port from Portland Oregon said, question, why does Joe House look like a Make-A-Wish kid whenever he wears a hat? I'm sure he has enough money in his pockets to find a hat that fits his head. Is this a shtick? I have some Joe House photos from college.

• 1:32:02Bill Simmons?

  Can you see that one?

• 1:32:04Speaker 03

  Look at that hat. I know that hat.

• 1:32:05Bill Simmons?

  You're doing this in the, you're doing this, this is freshman year. Remember this one?

• 1:32:10Speaker 03

  Of course. How could I forget? Is that my Gonzaga cross country hat?

• 1:32:15Bill Simmons?

  This is us together?

• 1:32:16Speaker 03

  I can't see that hat. What's that hat?

• 1:32:19Bill Simmons?

  That was, I don't know what that was, but you were wearing it relatively correctly. So I don't, I don't know. What's the answer here, House?

• 1:32:26Speaker 03

  Um, my head is, is funky. It's a little bit big, but there's a shape issue with it. I'm constantly finding myself.

• 1:32:33Bill Simmons?

  I have the same issue. We're in the same support group.

• 1:32:35Speaker 03

  Where my, it goes like this or the, it gets a skew and I, I'm not aware of it, but it, it has over the years. My brain believes that when it's a skew, that it's in the right place. It looks like a bit, but you just proved.

• 1:32:48Bill Simmons?

  You have had dyslexia.

• 1:32:49Speaker 03

  You proved to America that I've been doing this for more than 35 years, going on 40 years. And so.

• 1:32:56Bill Simmons?

  It's one of the reasons we're friends. I barely know how to wear a hat either. Meanwhile, Chris Ryan put any hat in that dude's head.

• 1:33:01Speaker 03

  Oh, he looks phenomenal.

• 1:33:02Bill Simmons?

  It's perfect.

• 1:33:03Speaker 03

  Looks spectacular in a hat.

• 1:33:04Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. We just don't have heads that fit hats that well. My wife always says this to me. She's like, why do you wear hats?

• 1:33:08Speaker 03

  In a bucket hat. And that's one thing that I'm going to do behind the scenes. You don't know this yet, but your Christmas present for, for this year is going to be Ringer bucket hats. I'm getting them made.

• 1:33:17Bill Simmons?

  Ringer bucket hats? That sounds great.

• 1:33:19Speaker 03

  I know. Cause a bucket hat really works for me.

• 1:33:22Bill Simmons?

  I think in the early 1910s, when people would go to the baseball games and they would have the, those cool hats, that would have been a great era for us.

• 1:33:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:33:29Bill Simmons?

  We would have been able to find these hats that felt, that fit our weird heads. Here's another house question. House said he was hoping the Pats, this is preseason, would be one and three after four weeks. So he could get a good number on Pats plus 10 wins. Well, they're two and two without A.J. Brown, no Gonzo in Buffalo. Their injury, the schedule's easier. People want to know, did House load up on the Pats?

• 1:33:50Speaker 03

  Not yet, but there's still time. There is.

• 1:33:54Bill Simmons?

  You thinking about it?

• 1:33:55Speaker 03

  I'm taking a look. Yeah.

• 1:33:56Bill Simmons?

  The over nine and a half?

• 1:33:58Speaker 03

  There's a little division interest that I have as well.

• 1:34:01Bill Simmons?

  Oh.

• 1:34:02Speaker 03

  I do think.

• 1:34:02Bill Simmons?

  What are their division odds?

• 1:34:04Speaker 03

  Yeah. Why don't you look them up on the FanDuel Sportsbook?

• 1:34:06Bill Simmons?

  I'm going to look them up as you look them up.

• 1:34:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, we'll both look them up.

• 1:34:09Bill Simmons?

  So you didn't do it. You didn't do what you said you were going to do.

• 1:34:12Speaker 03

  It's not too late. We, that, that bet was supposed to be through four games and we are now officially through four games. The, the line arrived.

• 1:34:24Speaker 03

  You know, early.

• 1:34:26Bill Simmons?

  Well, the, the team future, I'm on team futures.

• 1:34:29Speaker 03

  I'm on team futures also.

• 1:34:31Bill Simmons?

  On the FanDuel.

• 1:34:32Speaker 03

  So over.

• 1:34:33Bill Simmons?

  So you're plus 200 for the division now?

• 1:34:36Speaker 03

  Plus 200 for over the division and over 10 wins, over nine and a half wins is minus 125. So that, that price didn't really.

• 1:34:47Bill Simmons?

  So you're, so FanDuel knew your plan.

• 1:34:51Bill Simmons?

  And they, and they blocked you.

• 1:34:53Speaker 03

  We, I mean, we do talk about it on this program.

• 1:34:57Bill Simmons?

  One more house question. Can you make it a regular Thursday segment where you force a clearly terrified house to discuss the WNBA?

• 1:35:05Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:35:05Bill Simmons?

  Could you get it sponsored?

• 1:35:06Speaker 03

  Nope. No chance. Under no circumstances. No thank you.

• 1:35:09Bill Simmons?

  You get a few people who wondered why you were so scared to talk about the WNBA. Do you want to explain yourself?

• 1:35:14Speaker 03

  Tell America. I'll tell America. Immediately after that segment was done, I said to you, please no more WNBA. I can't take it. I don't mind talking through the games.

• 1:35:24Bill Simmons?

  All the dialogue about the WNBA is, is a hornet's nest for you. You're afraid to, you're afraid to step into the nest.

• 1:35:30Speaker 03

  I don't want any part of it. That it's a, it's a dialogue.

• 1:35:32Bill Simmons?

  You don't want to talk about Katelyn Clark's press conference today and the ramifications?

• 1:35:36Speaker 03

  I don't want to talk about Katelyn. I don't want to talk about Sophie. I don't want to talk about Asia. I don't want to talk about the, the Indiana fans.

• 1:35:44Bill Simmons?

  You just want to watch the basketball, bet on it and don't care about any storylines.

• 1:35:47Speaker 03

  How about this? Great choke job by the Aces. This was all set up for this Aces dream and they are choking the thing away. I had a pal reach out and who, who had a preseason ticket on the.

• 1:36:02Bill Simmons?

  On the Vaux?

• 1:36:03Speaker 03

  No, on the liberty to, to make the finals. And so he's, he's got a tremendous hedge opportunity.

• 1:36:10Bill Simmons?

  That's not gonna happen.

• 1:36:10Speaker 03

  Hedge. No, I understand, but he's like, how should I hedge this? And I said, one of the ways to hedge it, I would think is to put together, and this was last week. An Aces Atlanta, uh, final that was available at plus 145, but that's not going to happen because the Aces have choked that shit away. You could, the proper hedge was just play the dream at the price that, that it opened up, which was like minus 125.

• 1:36:34Bill Simmons?

  I watched that game yesterday with, with Zoe, who was on her phone the whole time, not watching, and Hank, her boyfriend, who actually genuinely likes the WNBA.

• 1:36:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:36:41Bill Simmons?

  And we're riveted by.

• 1:36:42Speaker 03

  It's sound basketball.

• 1:36:43Bill Simmons?

  We were riveted by Ace, Aces Valkyrie. Also how stupid the league is. Like Veronica Burton, who's been, you know, one of the reasons Golden State's been such an upset team and, you know, Cinderella team, basically. She was like the seventh pick and the, the only reason I know this is because her dad was Steve Burton. Like she's from, he's broadcaster here. Her grandfather's Ron Burton who played for the Patriots. So there was always interest in her. She was the seventh pick in the draft and Dallas just waived her after two years. Like this league, because I think a lot of the teams didn't have the resources to really have proper front offices. They just make these massive mistakes.

• 1:37:21Speaker 03

  Well, I mean.

• 1:37:21Bill Simmons?

  And this is one of them. Dallas had this player who's clearly an awesome playoff player, just got rid of her after two years because they're idiots.

• 1:37:28Speaker 03

  It might be the Dallas front office and it might be something in the water. Like all Dallas front offices have the same issue because they drafted Ozzy Fudd over Olivia.

• 1:37:37Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:37:38Speaker 03

  Dallas, Dallas did that.

• 1:37:39Bill Simmons?

  Tough one.

• 1:37:40Speaker 03

  Cause Ozzy and Paige were boy, were girlfriends.

• 1:37:44Bill Simmons?

  So Hank and I are, we're, we're saying the Aces are going to come back. Game two, it's a must win game for them. They're down. You know, 1-0 in the series.

• 1:37:51Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:37:52Bill Simmons?

  Asia's kind of looming in the game like she does. And then she has one of those Asia plays. They take the lead. And it was like, oh, here we go.

• 1:38:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:38:00Bill Simmons?

  And Golden State just fought it off and they have, easily they have the best. See, now we're talking WNBA. You don't seem scared.

• 1:38:06Speaker 03

  I know. We have a 10 minute stretch on it because we're talking about basketball. They, they, they.

• 1:38:12Bill Simmons?

  Well, Golden State has, they have the best, loudest fan base. I do feel like they affect the games, but Burton makes this 26 footer. That they needed, that basically swung the game in the last minute.

• 1:38:25Speaker 03

  You know what?

• 1:38:25Bill Simmons?

  And then Vegas.

• 1:38:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:38:27Bill Simmons?

  Vegas just.

• 1:38:28Speaker 03

  Choking.

• 1:38:28Bill Simmons?

  You know what? Here's, here's the thing. If you have Asia Wilson on your team, I kind of need her to have more than one shot in the last four minutes, guys.

• 1:38:35Speaker 03

  Has to have all the touches. That's it.

• 1:38:37Bill Simmons?

  No offense, but this is the best WNBA player of all time. Yeah.

• 1:38:42Bill Simmons?

  I actually, I was arguing about this with a basketball friend of mine who likes NBA and WNBA. Is she the greatest first overall pick? Since Kareem Abdul-Jabbar?

• 1:38:54Speaker 03

  Oh my goodness.

• 1:38:56Bill Simmons?

  So, and listen, so the counter would be, well, obviously LeBron, obviously Kareem, who was Lou Alcindor. She has now five MVPs and she won, you know, I think three, three out of four titles.

• 1:39:11Speaker 03

  You're, this is outrageous. I just want you to understand. This is like.

• 1:39:14Bill Simmons?

  I'm just saying from a credentials standpoint, she's been, this is her eighth year in the league.

• 1:39:19Speaker 03

  There are 12 teams in the league, bro.

• 1:39:21Bill Simmons?

  Well, look at her resume.

• 1:39:22Speaker 03

  Who cares?

• 1:39:22Bill Simmons?

  But the answer is Bill Russell.

• 1:39:24Speaker 03

  Okay. I mean, you can't compare.

• 1:39:28Bill Simmons?

  But he wasn't the first, oh, Bill Russell wasn't the first pick in the league. So the answer is Kareem, but Kareem only won one title his first like eight, nine years.

• 1:39:35Speaker 03

  There's, this is not, I won't tolerate this. This is not appropriate.

• 1:39:38Bill Simmons?

  Is she the best WNBA player of all time? Yes.

• 1:39:41Speaker 03

  Sure. That's fine. I don't mind that.

• 1:39:44Bill Simmons?

  I think she's the best number one pick of all time. I stand by it.

• 1:39:48Speaker 03

  You're wrong.

• 1:39:48Bill Simmons?

  That was, that was one WNBA take. And then, um, my other one.

• 1:39:55Bill Simmons?

  I'm not going to apologize either. I really enjoy watching Angel Reese.

• 1:40:00Bill Simmons?

  I know she's a polarizing WNBA player. I would love to, if I was a, a player, I'd love to play with her. She rebounds. She defends her ass off. She's charismatic. She's competitive. I genuinely enjoy it.

• 1:40:13Speaker 03

  The unintentional.

• 1:40:14Bill Simmons?

  Whatever the Angel Reese, whatever the bandwagon is, I'm on it. I didn't tell anybody, but I've been on it all year.

• 1:40:20Speaker 03

  Well, the unintentional comedy of all the misses from up close is also can't be underrated.

• 1:40:24Bill Simmons?

  Listen, not, not all basketball players are perfect.

• 1:40:27Speaker 03

  It is not, it's never not funny when somebody.

• 1:40:29Bill Simmons?

  You and I are old enough to remember Moses.

• 1:40:31Speaker 03

  Clip.

• 1:40:32Bill Simmons?

  You're, I know, but you and I are old enough to remember Moses Malone.

• 1:40:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:40:36Bill Simmons?

  Who is one of the 15 or 16 best players ever.

• 1:40:38Speaker 03

  A Washington Bullet.

• 1:40:40Bill Simmons?

  He was a Bullet for a while. He was an unbelievable rebounder. And I wrote this thing in my book about how he would go under the basket. And then back up and just ram his ass into these guys and knock them backwards and just was around the rim. She re, she's like an, literally an unbelievable rebounder. I just like, I like her game. I'm in on Atlanta. I've been rooting for them.

• 1:41:00Speaker 03

  If she could master the Moses, which is to intentionally miss, uh, an up close one. So you get the offensive rebound.

• 1:41:07Bill Simmons?

  You get like three offensive rebounds.

• 1:41:08Speaker 03

  But he would control the ball that way. It was intentional for Moses because it was like, it's a tip to himself so he can control it enough to make the, the, the layup.

• 1:41:18Bill Simmons?

  This goes back to my theory about how stupid the WNBA is, and this will be the great inefficiency as these teams get smarter. They traded her last year for two first round picks. She's one, one of like the 10, 12 best players in the league.

• 1:41:31Speaker 03

  She has.

• 1:41:32Bill Simmons?

  And they were just like, yeah, oh, we got two first round picks. Oh, cool. Maybe you could draft somebody as good as Angel Reese, you fucking dumb asses. Can you imagine that? What would be the basketball going to do that?

• 1:41:42Speaker 03

  There might have been some.

• 1:41:43Bill Simmons?

  We've traded Cooper Flag.

• 1:41:44Speaker 03

  How about this? We traded Luka Doncic. How about that? How about that? Does that, does that work for you?

• 1:41:50Bill Simmons?

  That was great. That was talking WNBA with Joe House. It was brought to you by Dear and the Headlights Cologne.

• 1:41:55Speaker 03

  I didn't even get to make a strap season joke.

• 1:41:59Bill Simmons?

  This email is from Andres from Austin.

• 1:42:03Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:42:04Bill Simmons?

  Do you think every time an NBA superstar changes a team, they should have to take on a new nickname? Should Giannis now be known as the Heat Freak?

• 1:42:11Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:42:12Bill Simmons?

  Not against it.

• 1:42:13Speaker 03

  Not against it either.

• 1:42:15Bill Simmons?

  I guess that's that mean Anthony Davis is ADMV?

• 1:42:19Speaker 03

  That's pretty good. Did you do that?

• 1:42:20Bill Simmons?

  ADMV.

• 1:42:21Speaker 03

  That's pretty good.

• 1:42:22Bill Simmons?

  Buy that website.

• 1:42:23Speaker 03

  For as long as he's gonna be here.

• 1:42:25Bill Simmons?

  Tom, so do you agree or disagree? Change, new nickname change if you change names? I don't mind it.

• 1:42:31Speaker 03

  What would he have been in Dallas?

• 1:42:32Bill Simmons?

  I don't know what LeBron's would be.

• 1:42:35Bill Simmons?

  Tom H. from Western Australia, Perth.

• 1:42:38Speaker 03

  Love Perth.

• 1:42:39Bill Simmons?

  He's been listening to the pod since 2022.

• 1:42:42Speaker 03

  Great job, Tom.

• 1:42:43Bill Simmons?

  He's found myself vicariously following the NFL news through yourself and House and Sal. In this year, I'm ready to commit to a lifetime contract of following a team.

• 1:42:52Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:42:52Bill Simmons?

  If you were starting fresh in 2026, who would you sign with?

• 1:42:56Speaker 03

  This is great.

• 1:42:57Bill Simmons?

  I should have prepped you for this.

• 1:42:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, this is a great question. Who do I really truly enjoy?

• 1:43:03Bill Simmons?

  So it would have to be a fun team, stable. And if you're coming from Australia, a fun place to visit, I think, would be the three things. So I was thinking West Coast.

• 1:43:15Bill Simmons?

  I don't think you want a team that's won titles because then you become a bandwagon jumper.

• 1:43:21Speaker 03

  Let me ask you, well, I don't know. I'm not sure that I subscribe to that because nearly all of the West Coast teams have won. I mean, San Francisco hasn't won in recent memory, but they were just in the Super Bowl.

• 1:43:29Bill Simmons?

  I guess Seattle just won.

• 1:43:31Speaker 03

  Seattle just won. The Rams won within the last five years.

• 1:43:34Bill Simmons?

  I would say the Chargers, but Eduardo's still missing. I just, I just checked. He's still, nobody knows where he is.

• 1:43:39Speaker 03

  No, we like Tom. If we didn't like Tom, we would say the Chargers.

• 1:43:43Bill Simmons?

  I was thinking the Denver Broncos would be a good one.

• 1:43:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, they, they have good ownership. They have, there's a lot of stability there.

• 1:43:52Bill Simmons?

  Mid 2010s when they went 14.

• 1:43:54Speaker 03

  Denver is cool.

• 1:43:56Bill Simmons?

  Good place to visit.

• 1:43:57Speaker 03

  It's 300 of their sun there, 320 days a year or something like that. Some crazy stat of how often it's sunny.

• 1:44:02Bill Simmons?

  Flying from Australia for a game, probably land in LA, then go to Denver. Yeah, I would say Denver.

• 1:44:07Speaker 03

  I'm not dismissing Seattle because Seattle is like a very different place, I think, geographically, the way it feels, the way it looks than anything in Australia. I don't think there's anything that rivals it, like the Pacific Northwest compared to the giant continent of Australia. I do think there would be some appeal to being someplace that isn't, doesn't feel like, like home. Denver wouldn't feel like home either necessarily, but.

• 1:44:31Bill Simmons?

  Washington too far away?

• 1:44:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, and I wouldn't tell anybody. Washington's got another couple of years here to sort of figure some stuff out.

• 1:44:39Bill Simmons?

  Hmm.

• 1:44:41Speaker 03

  Not sure we've got it figured out here yet.

• 1:44:42Bill Simmons?

  I would not tell him to become a Patriot fan.

• 1:44:44Speaker 03

  Why not?

• 1:44:44Bill Simmons?

  The world roots, world roots against us. Tired of the haters. The haters, they don't want us to win.

• 1:44:51Speaker 03

  Just gotta have to stop cheating and then it'll be fine.

• 1:44:55Bill Simmons?

  This is a phenomenal email from Joe O. Cherry Hill, New Jersey. Kudos to him.

• 1:45:02Bill Simmons?

  I just watched Lane Johnson as the Terminator get lowered into a vat of molten steel by Jalen Hurts and Nick Sirianni for the 10th time, which got me thinking. Because it was an AI video.

• 1:45:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:45:13Bill Simmons?

  In 2026, what's more socially acceptable, admitting you enjoy watching AI-generated videos or admitting you enjoy watching porn?

• 1:45:20Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:45:21Bill Simmons?

  Between the two, which admission carries less social stigma? I think clearly AI.

• 1:45:26Speaker 03

  What, what if you watch AI porn? I just want to ask it theoretically.

• 1:45:30Bill Simmons?

  I poured you blood in the world?

• 1:45:31Speaker 03

  Theoretically.

• 1:45:33Bill Simmons?

  Theoretically?

• 1:45:34Speaker 03

  I'm wondering out loud, just wondering.

• 1:45:37Bill Simmons?

  Um, AI is, is less stigma and.

• 1:45:41Speaker 03

  Yes, clearly.

• 1:45:42Bill Simmons?

  This did inspire me to go find that video and it was phenomenal. And I think it's always funny when anyone, whenever they imitate the Terminator 2 with the Schwarzenegger going down with anything. I hope people do it for me when I'm finally, finally retired in three months.

• 1:45:55Speaker 03

  You're gonna put you in the sauna in that thing.

• 1:45:58Bill Simmons?

  The sauna. Another AI email from Alex in Charlottesville. I sent this one to you. I think the future of AI is AI bookies that will generate odds for off-book parlays. The model should be called FanDuel Fanton. Hey, Fanton, what can I get for Travis Kelsey TD, three Taylor Swift sightings and two Collinsworth, Patrick Mahomes turtles? Processing request plus 2159. Add to bet slip? Question mark.

• 1:46:25Bill Simmons?

  FanDuel Fanton is one of the best ideas I've ever heard.

• 1:46:28Speaker 03

  It's phenomenal. There's no reason we can't do this. They, they give us, give us the Fanton bet of the week.

• 1:46:34Bill Simmons?

  FanDuel?

• 1:46:35Speaker 03

  FanDuel can do that for us. They can write odds for, for us, for this.

• 1:46:39Bill Simmons?

  You recently played golf with the FanDuel CEO in the last 24 hours.

• 1:46:43Speaker 03

  I really did that.

• 1:46:43Bill Simmons?

  Did you bring up FanDuel Fanton, Tim, or no?

• 1:46:45Speaker 03

  I did not. No, I'm, I'm saving it. We both need, we need to double team him.

• 1:46:49Bill Simmons?

  Did you, did you beat him or did you let him beat you?

• 1:46:51Speaker 03

  No, we were on the same team. It was a team event. We fared very well.

• 1:46:54Bill Simmons?

  That's great. That's like in real life, how we're rooting for FanDuel in the same team.

• 1:46:56Speaker 03

  We're rooting for each other. It's just the way the world wants us, wants us to be.

• 1:47:01Bill Simmons?

  Speaking of Washington and things that have happened there, this email came from Dallin.

• 1:47:04Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:47:05Bill Simmons?

  D A L L I N. He wants us to come up with a nickname or support his nickname for the Lions defense. Called the overreaction. Whoever plays this truly awful defense gets to lead the next week of sports overreaction segments. Week one, Tyler Shuck is a problem. Week two, Josh Allen is clearly the MVP. Week three, Geno Smith and the Jets, frisky. Week four, wait, is Ted McMillan Julio Jones? They get the Cardinals next. My overreaction prediction is Marvin Harrison Jr. He was good all along. Just a great email.

• 1:47:41Speaker 03

  That's a great one. That's a great one.

• 1:47:43Bill Simmons?

  It is true. They, whoever plays the Lions, massive overreaction right afterwards.

• 1:47:48Speaker 03

  There's some buzz out there for Arizona as, as an underdog to win outright.

• 1:47:53Bill Simmons?

  We just wait till we get to Ringer 107. Yeah.

• 1:47:57Speaker 03

  All right.

• 1:47:58Bill Simmons?

  We talked about what should the Las Vegas NBA team named, uh, be named? The only good email I got was from Adam Schwartz on this. He thinks they should be called the Las Vegas Sharps.

• 1:48:08Speaker 03

  Oh, that's a great name. What's wrong with that?

• 1:48:09Bill Simmons?

  It's really good.

• 1:48:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:48:11Bill Simmons?

  They won't do it, but it's really fucking good. I defy anybody to top the Las Vegas Sharps.

• 1:48:16Speaker 03

  Damn, I, we, we talked about this. There were some good ones out there. I can't remember.

• 1:48:19Bill Simmons?

  What would the logo be?

• 1:48:22Speaker 03

  We put deck of cards, you know, whatever, something that, that picks up on that casino theme. The dealers, did somebody say the dealers? I didn't hate that. I can't remember.

• 1:48:30Bill Simmons?

  Las Vegas dealers?

• 1:48:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, there's, there's some good ones.

• 1:48:32Bill Simmons?

  Oh, that's pretty good. I like that.

• 1:48:34Speaker 03

  There's some good ones that people are putting out there.

• 1:48:36Bill Simmons?

  Owen from DC, another Washington email. He said, uh, Sirianni's seat is heating up and with them playing in London this week, I'm wondering if he has a chance to take the left in London title. We joked about this last year.

• 1:48:47Speaker 03

  This is great.

• 1:48:48Bill Simmons?

  They just leave, we talked about, I think it was Doug Peterson was the first one. Sal and I were talking about how they're gonna fly, fire him and fly him back in the middle seat.

• 1:48:55Speaker 03

  We called him the middle seat, right?

• 1:48:57Bill Simmons?

  Middle seat Doug.

• 1:48:59Bill Simmons?

  So if Jacksonville kicks Philly's ass this week, um, will he become middle seat Nick? Pretty good.

• 1:49:06Speaker 03

  That's pretty good.

• 1:49:09Bill Simmons?

  Himmit from Vancouver. He said, on Sunday's pod, I talked about there should be a name for when a player goes down right before the end zone to avoid scoring, to protect the lead.

• 1:49:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:49:18Bill Simmons?

  Like TJ Hawkinson did. He thinks it should be called the Michael Douglas because it involves somebody purposely going down instead of scoring.

• 1:49:25Speaker 03

  Hey now. Hey now. That's a, that's a deep reference, but people that get it.

• 1:49:32Bill Simmons?

  Michael Douglas.

• 1:49:33Speaker 03

  The people that get it will get it and, and will enjoy it. It's a deep cut.

• 1:49:37Bill Simmons?

  A lot of people have asked if the Eagles are the year from hell team now. Matt Gallagher, I'll give him the credit, but all the things that have happened, all the injuries, Lane Johnson retires. Uh, Lane Johnson's retirement sparks a 24-hour ESPN-led news cycle, news cycle. That was one of the dumbest things of all time.

• 1:49:54Speaker 03

  Completely unnecessary as usual.

• 1:49:57Bill Simmons?

  They blew a couple of wins. Everyone's wondering about Jalen Hurts. Have they supplanted? Because it seemed like the Pats were headed for year from hell a week from now, but I think in the year from hell rankings. Unless you think the Chargers just locked it up already.

• 1:50:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, the, the Chargers are, are kind of the front runners. They haven't won a game yet. At least the Patriots have beaten the Bills. And the Eagles have beaten who? Washington?

• 1:50:24Bill Simmons?

  The Patriots have shed it. That, that, there's hope in Patriot Nation now. There's no hope with the Chargers. And the Eagles, I think there was hope. I think it's worse when there was hope and then you get kicked in the gonads.

• 1:50:34Speaker 03

  The, the reminder with the Eagles is that defense can always come around. Jonathan Greenard hasn't really played for them yet. I mean, he came into one game and then went right back out. Um, if that defense comes around, that will be an identity. They can just by virtue of the personnel there, get to nine wins or so.

• 1:50:54Bill Simmons?

  That's what, uh, Pelissero said in the previous segment.

• 1:50:57Speaker 03

  Hey.

• 1:50:58Bill Simmons?

  Even though they traded Cam Jergens. Well, even though they traded him. Howie could zag two weeks from now and use the pick that they got to trade for somebody else. You just don't know what's gonna happen.

• 1:51:09Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 1:51:09Bill Simmons?

  Mike from Arkansas had a reaction. The CR did a book report for us about Manchester City and that scandal on Tuesday's pod. He did a whole segment with me and Van about it.

• 1:51:17Speaker 03

  I need to listen to that.

• 1:51:19Bill Simmons?

  So what, we talked about these different punishments and Mike from Arkansas wonders, why can't they just start every game down zero to two?

• 1:51:28Bill Simmons?

  For like three years. They're just, every, it's like, you find, we, you were not, you don't have to lose any players. You're just down 0-2 for three years.

• 1:51:38Speaker 03

  That's a fun one.

• 1:51:40Bill Simmons?

  That's not bad.

• 1:51:40Speaker 03

  I don't hate it. I, I mean, because you can't undo all of the injustice that was done. I had somebody explain it to me last, and one of, in fact, one of the, the people involved with the new ownership of Liverpool. This gentleman was really encouraging me. Should I name drop? I'm not gonna name drop.

• 1:51:59Bill Simmons?

  No, you can absolutely name drop Will McDonough.

• 1:52:01Speaker 03

  Of course, it's our boy Willie. That's who else I was playing golf with. Yeah, me, Willie, Christian, my buddy Nick from the Latham and Watkins Law firm. Great foursome.

• 1:52:12Bill Simmons?

  That, now that was a name drop.

• 1:52:15Bill Simmons?

  Dropping a law firm.

• 1:52:16Speaker 03

  But Willie was walking me through this, this, this Manchester situation.

• 1:52:20Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:21Speaker 03

  And all of the success they've had, which, which is now, you know, it's, it's shit success. You, you, but you can't go back and undo it. It's like with the NCAA, well, we took away the title. So you, okay.

• 1:52:32Bill Simmons?

  It's the Clippers with Kawhi winning four NBA titles.

• 1:52:35Speaker 03

  Right, right.

• 1:52:36Bill Simmons?

  And then us figuring out what to do with that.

• 1:52:38Speaker 03

  How, how do you deal with that? There's no real proper way to, to punish them. It has to be something enormous in terms of salary ramifications and, you know, change in, in ownership of that.

• 1:52:52Bill Simmons?

  CR said, everybody should be murdered. That was his, cause he's a Liverpool fan.

• 1:52:56Speaker 03

  My goodness.

• 1:52:57Bill Simmons?

  He thinks that everyone should die.

• 1:52:58Speaker 03

  Well, that game is at 11:30 in the morning, East Coast time on Sunday. And the, the, the silly thing is that you can't punish.

• 1:53:05Bill Simmons?

  We're gonna be watching it together.

• 1:53:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, we are.

• 1:53:08Bill Simmons?

  Along with the Jags Eagles.

• 1:53:10Speaker 03

  So that'll be 8:30 in the morning, Pacific Coast time, our first, my first Bloody Mary of the day. But you, you, the, the, the fans will be, the Liverpool fans will be out for blood, but it's not like the players for, for Manchester are responsible. It's like, that, that's the conundrum.

• 1:53:29Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, the players are the innocent.

• 1:53:31Speaker 03

  They didn't do anything. They just took the money.

• 1:53:34Bill Simmons?

  I don't know what's gonna happen with you on Sunday, but Chang's making beef stew for us. You're not on my podcast that night, cause I have Sal, so you can drink and have Bloody Marys and pass out, wake up and do the full house thing and wear your hat sideways.

• 1:53:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, all day.

• 1:53:47Bill Simmons?

  Chet, Chet wants to know, what are we to conclude regarding Steve Ballmer's actual business acumen? Now that his franchise has suffered the death penalty because he lost a negotiation with Uncle Dennis?

• 1:54:01Speaker 03

  This is a great question. And what I.

• 1:54:04Bill Simmons?

  It does go on your resume.

• 1:54:06Speaker 03

  What I think about.

• 1:54:06Bill Simmons?

  Lost a negotiation with Uncle Dennis.

• 1:54:08Speaker 03

  It's a great one. What I think about specifically in terms of the business acumen is whatever the instinct is that produced that franchise going to ESPN, they basically had a deal in place. This is now, I think, been reported across enough sources that we can say, you and I know this because we've been told this. The Clippers and the league had a deal. They had the, a framework for a deal.

• 1:54:33Bill Simmons?

  The framework of a deal, yes.

• 1:54:35Speaker 03

  For something that was going to be a, a kind of punishment that met sort of the way that the, the, the climate and temperature was, was going, which is to say some kind of slap on the wrist-y kind of punishment, not.

• 1:54:49Bill Simmons?

  Yes.

• 1:54:49Speaker 03

  Anything approaching this, but the dumbass Clippers, somebody in that organization, and, and you have to blame Ballmer, cause he sits on top of it. Just is like, you know what? We're not gonna wait around. We're gonna go take our victory, victory lap right now. Let's go talk to our good pals at ESPN and have them trot out our, our victory lap as, as we sit here. Look, what do we do? What are they doing?

• 1:55:14Bill Simmons?

  Then their victory lap got carpet bombed by Adam Silver.

• 1:55:16Speaker 03

  Worse than that. I mean, they're the worst catastrophe you can imagine.

• 1:55:21Bill Simmons?

  Incredibly important email from Steve Horowitz. He has a question about the breakfast appetizer.

• 1:55:28Speaker 03

  Oh, breakfast appetizer.

• 1:55:29Bill Simmons?

  After everyone orders.

• 1:55:31Speaker 03

  Huh.

• 1:55:31Bill Simmons?

  You say to the waitress, I'd like an order of blintzes, waffles, corned beef hash, whatever, as a starter for the table.

• 1:55:40Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:55:41Bill Simmons?

  And the server will think it's weird, but by the time it arrives, everyone on the table will be excited. Think of a change in sports, replay assist, pitch clock, et cetera, that when it came about, you thought, that makes sense. Why haven't we been doing this sooner, sooner? That's the breakfast appetizer. Why hasn't the diner industry pushed this? More importantly, why hasn't Joe House pushed this?

• 1:56:02Speaker 03

  Well, you have a short memory. I have pushed this. This is exactly the experience we had at the Waffle House in Augusta, Georgia, when we were assembled there for the Masters a couple of years ago. We went for an evening meal. We got the waffle for the table. We got more than one waffle for the table. Everybody wanted their own.

• 1:56:21Bill Simmons?

  But we got all the food at once. This is.

• 1:56:23Speaker 03

  I, we could.

• 1:56:24Bill Simmons?

  The waitress comes over and you say, we're not ready to order yet, but can we order the banana pancakes?

• 1:56:29Speaker 03

  That's, something like that for the table obviously makes a ton of sense. I don't care about the cadence of it, but you want something that everybody will enjoy. Pancakes for the table is a, is a classic, I think.

• 1:56:43Bill Simmons?

  Like a side of bacon would be fun.

• 1:56:46Speaker 03

  Well, everybody, I mean.

• 1:56:47Bill Simmons?

  I liked his idea for the corned beef hash. Just like, hey, can we just get a big plate of corned beef hash?

• 1:56:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, everybody dive in. I just don't, I don't wanna wait, you know? I don't want their, I don't need courses for, for breakfast. I want it just come when it's ready. And the first, cause the pancakes might take too long. But we had waffles for the table. It's a great, it is a great idea. I don't, I'm not dismissing it. I just think it's a, we don't have to call it an appetizer. It's, it's a shared plate for the table.

• 1:57:17Bill Simmons?

  Mary Beth, not Chip Kane's wife, Mary Beth, a different Mary Beth.

• 1:57:21Speaker 03

  She's a great Mary Beth, though.

• 1:57:23Bill Simmons?

  The best Mary Beth.

• 1:57:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:57:25Bill Simmons?

  She says, Bill, I'm a huge, longtime female fan. I used to print out your page two mailbags back in the day, if that tells you how old I am. How have you not thought of a sponsor for our house's Eat a Dick segment? It's the easiest match in the world, Dick's Last Resort.

• 1:57:39Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 1:57:41Bill Simmons?

  I don't know, they never reached out.

• 1:57:43Speaker 03

  There's still time.

• 1:57:43Bill Simmons?

  We're open for negotiation.

• 1:57:44Speaker 03

  We're sitting right here.

• 1:57:48Speaker 03

  Dick's Sporting Goods, does that still exist or they go bankrupt?

• 1:57:52Bill Simmons?

  Dick's Sporting's good, should be the, I don't know, maybe that fits in with their family atmosphere at Dick's Sporting Goods, but.

• 1:57:59Speaker 03

  Eat a fat dick doesn't work for them?

• 1:58:01Bill Simmons?

  Patrick in Ohio wants to, wants us to either talk him in or out of a Bengals last place division bet. It's plus 550 right now.

• 1:58:10Bill Simmons?

  Steelers and Browns are plus 130, plus 115. His case is they have the worst coach in the division. It's not a debate. He's like one and 150 in one score games. He's brutal. They don't ever play solid all around games. The offense always saves bad defense or vice versa. Everything seems off with Borough. He sent this before Chase and Higgins got hurt.

• 1:58:31Bill Simmons?

  Bengals plus 550 to finish fourth.

• 1:58:35Speaker 03

  If they lose to Miami this week, and I am not dismissing it out of hand, I think there's a case to be made. That price will be so far long gone.

• 1:58:44Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that'll be like a plus 140 if they lose to Miami.

• 1:58:47Speaker 03

  Buy it now. Go get that ticket. Don't, you don't have to spend a ton on it.

• 1:58:49Bill Simmons?

  So in Ring or Wise, guys, a fantastic Friday show that you're on, when you double dip your content, like Jerry Seinfeld going on two different talk shows.

• 1:58:57Speaker 03

  It's great.

• 1:58:59Bill Simmons?

  You guys do a man's best bet, underdog pick, money line only.

• 1:59:03Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:59:04Bill Simmons?

  Will somebody take the Dolphins money line tomorrow, which is like plus 300 against the Bengals?

• 1:59:08Speaker 03

  It's the most DeBundo, either DeBundo or Cousin Sal. Those would be my, oh no, you know what? Dream would do it too. Everybody, everybody goes for it long. Somebody will, somebody will do that. I do believe so, yes.

• 1:59:20Bill Simmons?

  Josh from Fort Wayne heard our Mike Tomlin, Minecraft combo. And he said, House nailed it when he used the word wholesome. It's been around for nearly 20 years. I think of it almost like virtual Legos.

• 1:59:33Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:59:34Bill Simmons?

  And all things done against the background are really relaxing, worldless piano music. That's about it. Very easy to get sucked in. People who were like Tom when they spent years building entire cities. That's from Josh in Fort Wayne. So virtual Legos makes sense to me. I now understand what Minecraft is.

• 1:59:48Speaker 03

  We got a ton of feedback. That, that, the, the two clips from, from last week's show, for, for whatever reason, me objecting to Cooper Flag as Rookie of the Year. I got a lot of feedback on that. I got a lot of feedback on that one. It was really for the purpose of setting up the idea of Washington being incented to make, you know, to put AJ DeBonce's best foot forward if their season goes in a certain direction. I, all of that was just a setup, but I must've come out a little too hot on the, I did say it was a fucking abomination. So I guess maybe I overstated it a tiny bit, the Cooper Flag.

• 2:00:25Bill Simmons?

  People got, what, the Dallas fans got upset?

• 2:00:27Speaker 03

  They were not happy.

• 2:00:29Bill Simmons?

  Oh, no.

• 2:00:29Speaker 03

  Didn't like it. They didn't like that.

• 2:00:31Bill Simmons?

  Dallas fans are mad at me too, cause I keep joking about Cooper Flag going to Boston. But I'm not joking.

• 2:00:36Speaker 03

  They told me to eat a fat dick. They definitely did.

• 2:00:39Bill Simmons?

  Oh.

• 2:00:39Speaker 03

  But the, the clips from last week, that, that Minecraft, Minecraft one, that one got a lot of, of traction out there. I will say, one thing.

• 2:00:49Bill Simmons?

  Were people upset that we didn't know what Minecraft was or what?

• 2:00:52Speaker 03

  They were calling us, you know, old, which is fine.

• 2:00:54Bill Simmons?

  Old people?

• 2:00:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's totally fine. The, um, the one thing.

• 2:00:59Bill Simmons?

  Oh, it's so insulting. We were in college in 1988 together.

• 2:01:04Speaker 03

  One element of that, that we probably slept on, um, was Antonio Brown. Either he threatened to do this or he actually did it. He went, you can go in, other people who are participating, TNT is an element of this. You can blow shit up and, and he either threatened to do this or actually did it, to go into Mike Tomlin's Minecraft world and blow up a hospital with TNT. Antonio Brown, he, he joined the stream and either threatened to do it or actually did it. And Mike Tomlin banned him. He banned AB84. That's it. You're out. You can't be in here blowing my hospitals up. Incredible.

• 2:01:42Bill Simmons?

  Well, they called them Minecraft Mike on the NBC show on Sunday. I think this is just owning it. Last email from Maurice in Los Angeles. I love the Eat a Fat Dick segment and the discussion about how to commemorate each week's winner sparks some ideas. I propose a Stanley Cup style trophy where each winner's name gets added to honor their initiation Eat a Fat Dick. I'll leave you to decide what the trophy should look like, but the only non-negotiable is the trophy should be called the Stanley Cock.

• 2:02:18Speaker 03

  Who was that?

• 2:02:19Bill Simmons?

  That was Maurice Los Angeles.

• 2:02:21Speaker 03

  Maurice needs to send, send his address so I can send him a Ringer bucket hat.

• 2:02:25Bill Simmons?

  I have a Stanley cock.

• 2:02:26Speaker 03

  Good. As soon as I make a bucket hat, I'm sending one to Maurice. The Stanley cock. Done. Say less.

• 2:02:32Bill Simmons?

  I would tell Eduardo to do a social video of the Stanley cock, but Eduardo's missing.

• 2:02:39Bill Simmons?

  He's, he's somewhere in the Pacific Northwest now.

• 2:02:42Speaker 03

  Would it be like an image of Nick Foles or something like, you know, what would it be?

• 2:02:47Bill Simmons?

  Stanley cock would definitely be offensive. All right. Today's Ringer 107 is brought to you by FanDuel. Make this your most rewarding season ever. Download the FanDuel app to check out all of our 107 picks and boosted teasers every week. This season, uh, I am, uh, 500 for the year.

• 2:03:04Speaker 03

  Great job by you.

• 2:03:05Bill Simmons?

  10 and 10. What's your record?

• 2:03:06Speaker 03

  Two games under 500. I thought that I was, I was prepared to lose my teaser last week and I did indeed lose it. I, I told America that I didn't, you know, it's, don't mess around with Washington. That was done as soon as Mariota went out. Washington was quite competitive.

• 2:03:21Bill Simmons?

  That wasn't fair. That was, yeah, Washington was gonna cover that game.

• 2:03:24Speaker 03

  They, they, they were kicking the Colts ass.

• 2:03:26Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, you were gonna cover.

• 2:03:28Speaker 03

  Until the dopey guy who's about to no longer be the head coach of Washington decided to go for it on a fourth down with a minute left in the half. Unnecessary. Uh, but I, I tried to just invest in the teams that I believed in based on my priors. And Cincinnati was one of those teams. Cincinnati laying two and a half at home against the Jags. Um, that did not work out.

• 2:03:51Bill Simmons?

  Are you giving us a recap of your bets? The worst podcast content possible?

• 2:03:55Speaker 03

  Well, I'm just saying, I went one and four.

• 2:03:56Bill Simmons?

  You're two games under 500 and you get uncomfortable when you talk about the WNBA. That's all we need to know. That's two facts.

• 2:04:03Speaker 03

  I do love the Stanley cock.

• 2:04:06Bill Simmons?

  Week five, so you go first.

• 2:04:08Speaker 03

  Oh, I go first.

• 2:04:08Bill Simmons?

  We're gonna make three picks and we have a tease. And I want to mention, even though we brought back teasers this year on FanDuel and the minus 110 juice, $50 max bets. I was so excited about it and I'm usually great at teasers and I'm one and three this year with my teasers.

• 2:04:24Bill Simmons?

  And lost the one last week because of my beloved New England Patriots.

• 2:04:27Speaker 03

  Hmm. Well, that was worth it.

• 2:04:29Bill Simmons?

  It was worth it, but I'd like to apologize for being one and three on teasers. And I'm gonna bring that back this week.

• 2:04:34Speaker 03

  Cousin Sal was three and I, I wonder how Cousin Sal did last week. He was, he and I were both three and out.

• 2:04:38Bill Simmons?

  Cousin Sal lost because we had the same tease.

• 2:04:40Speaker 03

  Oh, so we're both three and one.

• 2:04:42Bill Simmons?

  Your first pick is what?

• 2:04:43Speaker 03

  Taking the Pittsburgh Steelers, laying the two and a half.

• 2:04:46Bill Simmons?

  That was my first pick.

• 2:04:47Speaker 03

  Great. Done. So we've got two picks under our belts already.

• 2:04:51Bill Simmons?

  Is it one and a half? What was the official line? One and a half or two and a half?

• 2:04:53Speaker 03

  I thought it was two and a half. One and a half would be fine.

• 2:04:57Bill Simmons?

  All right. Keep going. Give your case and I'll give you the line.

• 2:04:59Speaker 03

  Um, a lot of folks have pointed this out. Uh, good pal, Cleefy A, um, leading the, the charge here. It's situationally Pittsburgh is coming in on extended rest from their Thursday night loss to the Browns.

• 2:05:12Bill Simmons?

  10 dayer.

• 2:05:13Speaker 03

  We have the Colts coming off of international travel. That kind of mismatch situation doesn't happen very often in the NFL.

• 2:05:21Bill Simmons?

  It's international travel followed by a road game, which they do like every, what, four years?

• 2:05:27Speaker 03

  Exactly right. Yes. Um, inside the exit. So that's a terrible spot for the Colts.

• 2:05:33Bill Simmons?

  Yep.

• 2:05:33Speaker 03

  In general, Daniel Jones and the Colts have not been great outdoors on grass. They have, uh, a losing record. They.

• 2:05:44Bill Simmons?

  We have all the same notes.

• 2:05:45Speaker 03

  They don't cover.

• 2:05:46Bill Simmons?

  Steelers pass rush.

• 2:05:48Speaker 03

  Yep. I don't, yeah, right. So Daniel Jones against zone defense so far this season is very bad. And I think a function of that is because he still can't really run and he doesn't run and he doesn't run because he tours Achilles less than a year ago. So taking that element away lets teams just set up and sit in zone and they don't have the receivers. They have one. You know, receiver and downs who is an underneath, you know, kind of receiver. Nothing, nothing vertical. Um, and you know, there's a bunch of numbers out there that show that the Steelers off of a loss, very good, both straight up and against the spread.

• 2:06:26Speaker 03

  But I just like the idea that the, the rest advantage that the Steelers have going alongside with, you know, the Steelers team is going to be eight and nine. We can all see it coming right down the pike. This is them in a home game situation. So Steelers laying less than a field goal. Yes, please.

• 2:06:42Bill Simmons?

  I think, I have it as well. I'm going to piggyback your pick. I thought it was a miracle that this line was under three by the time our line's locked. I'm grabbing it now because I think by Sunday it goes up. Um, I don't love betting on Aaron Rodgers. Pittman's out now.

• 2:06:57Speaker 03

  Pittman is definitely out.

• 2:06:59Bill Simmons?

  Pittman's out.

• 2:07:00Speaker 03

  Okay. So we don't have the Pittman revenge game.

• 2:07:02Bill Simmons?

  No. But I do believe in their front seven. And it's weird. The weaknesses of the Steelers, I think are fine for this.

• 2:07:10Speaker 03

  Yes, I agree.

• 2:07:11Bill Simmons?

  I think you could throw on them, but not, I don't, I don't think the Colts are going to be able to.

• 2:07:15Speaker 03

  Me either.

• 2:07:15Bill Simmons?

  The Colts, so they, they really burned me week three, the, when they upset Houston. Houston took the lead. And then Indy went down and got a field goal and it was a classic like Texans just rolling over the last three minutes, but I felt like Indy stole that game. And then last week, I thought Washington was gonna win. I was mad that I didn't bet on Washington, that I didn't wake up in time to remember to do anything. And, uh, and then all of a sudden your QB went out and the game, and then the fourth down and all of a sudden Indianapolis was up by 10.

• 2:07:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:07:47Bill Simmons?

  The bigger, the only thing you, you didn't mention, it just makes sense. The Steelers would win from a record standpoint because are the Colts really going to be three and two? And the Steelers, you know, are headed to nine and eight. So they kind of need this game and I just feel like these teams are around even.

• 2:08:04Speaker 03

  Yeah. Back to back road games for the Colts. The Colts are going to come in and, and Pittsburgh.

• 2:08:09Bill Simmons?

  Doesn't make sense. I think this line's a point too low.

• 2:08:12Speaker 03

  As a, as a petty better, I also think it's highly unlikely, highly unlikely that the goddamn Colts have the first penalty of the game called on them with nine and a half minutes left in the fucking fourth quarter. You know who can eat a fat dick? The referee crew that, that, that supervised that the penalties in Washington and Indianapolis, going along with all of the penalties for the week. All of the NFL referees from week four, please enjoy it. Have a fat dick.

• 2:08:46Bill Simmons?

  I didn't realize. I was doing my, my Cali Ursi imitation and writing down notes through your segment, not realizing that was an eat a fat dick segment.

• 2:08:54Speaker 03

  Oh, it's an eat a fat dick. We had four games.

• 2:08:57Bill Simmons?

  So the refs get the, get the eat a fat one this week.

• 2:09:00Speaker 03

  Horrendous, horrendous job last week. 25 penalties in the Seahawks Chargers game. Who the fuck is paying for that? Who was watching that? Do you understand the product? Nobody is there to watch you. And we're gonna see it this week.

• 2:09:14Bill Simmons?

  Well, what was the game that had 30 penalties? That was the Chargers game, right?

• 2:09:17Speaker 03

  Oh, did they have? I thought it was 25. Okay. It was 30. Okay, great. I got it wrong. I can't, I couldn't keep track.

• 2:09:22Bill Simmons?

  Didn't they say there were more touchdowns called back in the first four games this year than all that shit? Yeah.

• 2:09:28Speaker 03

  Yes. Oh, every, every single thing, but the, the, it was 10 to one. Washington committed 10 penalties. The Colts only one. And their first one and only one was with nine and a half minutes left of the fourth quarter. Fuck off.

• 2:09:41Bill Simmons?

  Well, we both have Steelers minus two and a half. What's your next pick?

• 2:09:45Speaker 03

  Oh, I have to go again.

• 2:09:45Bill Simmons?

  You're back up.

• 2:09:46Speaker 03

  Let's go. Um, I'm on the Rams. I don't mind laying the three and a half. I don't love laying the three and a half. It was great when it was three. I think it did, it might've opened at two and a half. I can't recall now. I've been betting the Rams all week.

• 2:10:03Bill Simmons?

  No, it was two and a half all week. And then by the time we got to today, all of a sudden it was three and a half because I had them at two and a half.

• 2:10:09Speaker 03

  Okay. I have, I definitely had them at two and a half. It was a Monday morning bet for me when I go through the card.

• 2:10:16Speaker 03

  This, this Rams team is slowly coming together, under the radar because of the, the two losses that they had. But, um, it's a very tough spot for Buffalo. The cross country bit is hard. There's a whole bunch of numbers that talk about East Coast teams coming west and playing in primetime games. They've been, um, not very good over the last like dozen or so.

• 2:10:41Bill Simmons?

  You know, that's very good. Their defense.

• 2:10:43Speaker 03

  Their defense is one of the worst.

• 2:10:45Bill Simmons?

  We moved the ball on them that whole game.

• 2:10:47Speaker 03

  400 plus yards for New England, missing three of its four top receivers. So you know who's not missing three of its top four receivers? The Rams. The Rams offense is starting to look like it, it could be healthy. The two drives.

• 2:11:02Bill Simmons?

  Williams was awesome last week. You have Williams and Nuke and Nakua and you have Devante.

• 2:11:07Speaker 03

  The two drives they put together to win that game outright against the Eagles. Now, Sirianni, the moron definitely was an accomplice in, in, in their own demise. And I'll be sad if he gets into the middle seat. I, I like him, you know, all season long. I want him in our lives.

• 2:11:22Bill Simmons?

  Well, we'll bring him on the, on the BS podcast on Thursdays if he, if he becomes middle seat Sirianni.

• 2:11:28Speaker 03

  It's always concerning when you, when you have Josh Allen, um, in a dome, uh, in primetime. Cause we've seen that offense and we've seen him especially, but a lot of people are saying, a lot of people are saying, is he still dinged? You remember there was a fourth quarter before the, the Patriots game, the game they played, um, against the Chargers. He was limping and he was limping in his press conference. And if you just look at the sheer numbers, the way that they played him under center as opposed to in shotgun, there were far fewer rush opportunities for Allen last week. And if he's dinged at all, if he's compromised at all, I really like the Rams front seven here. So I don't mind laying the three and a half with the Rams.

• 2:12:12Bill Simmons?

  There was, uh, after we did the Sunday pod, the next day when they have all the all 22 stuff. There was the behind the, uh, Buffalo line version of the two point conversion, which was the secret biggest play of the game. And Kincaid is on the right. He blocks for a second and then he just pops out.

• 2:12:31Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:12:31Bill Simmons?

  And he's wide open. And you see the receiver running across that Allen threw it. I forget who it was. There's two guys on him and they're both in front of him and the ball. And the, and he's out of bounds and it's like, there's no chance. And Allen just falls him and throws it to him and the play has no chance. And Kincaid is jumping up and down like this and Allen just missed it. That, that was just an abominable play by him.

• 2:12:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:12:56Bill Simmons?

  Combined with like, he threw that interception to Lassiter, the Lassiter dropped.

• 2:13:00Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:13:01Bill Simmons?

  Um, you know, this is, I guess what we're just going to do with Josh Allen all year is zigzag on, he's the MVP. Wait, what's wrong with Josh Allen? I guess this is just the ride because he's more like an NBA player than a, than an NFL player.

• 2:13:13Speaker 03

  Another thing that I saw observed out there by smart people is that it's clear that the Bills secondary is not all on the same page. That they're still figuring out the Jim Leonard scheme and Jim Leonard himself says it's going to take some time. Well, there's no time like right now to go up against the best offense in the NFL.

• 2:13:30Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 2:13:30Speaker 03

  And that to me is, is the Rams when it's properly functioning with all of its tools. Um, bad timing for the Bills.

• 2:13:39Bill Simmons?

  I'm gonna have them in some sort of dumb tease. I don't know what it's gonna be.

• 2:13:43Speaker 03

  Don't go through the zero.

• 2:13:45Bill Simmons?

  I'm going through the zero. I'm rehaming it. I'm rehaming it right all the way through the zero. I, uh, I'm staying away from that game because of the cheap touchdown potential in the three and a half.

• 2:13:54Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:13:55Bill Simmons?

  I don't want to mess with the hook in Josh Allen. What I do want to mess with is a game that I like both straight up, but also I think the money line is enticing. This Cardinals line, the Cardinals line is moving away from the Cardinals. I don't understand at all. It was four and a half all week. Now it's five and a half. They're home for the Detroit Lions and their terrible defense. And their coach who thought it was a good idea to go, uh, go for it on fourth and 20, down 13 in the fourth quarter, which was the, one of the five dumbest things I've seen this year. Arizona's offense 12th in DBOA. And that's including a game in week two when they got their absolute asses kicked because they're playing a far better team. It's only their second home game. They battled San Francisco.

• 2:14:41Bill Simmons?

  They, they demolished the Chargers in week one.

• 2:14:44Speaker 03

  They covered against San Francisco.

• 2:14:46Bill Simmons?

  They should have beaten the Giants.

• 2:14:48Speaker 03

  That, that's the one that sticks.

• 2:14:49Bill Simmons?

  They're inside the five yard line and the fucking Brissette throws a pick six.

• 2:14:53Speaker 03

  Pick six, right in the nuts.

• 2:14:57Bill Simmons?

  I like their offense. I know Love's hurt, but, um, and I know Parrish Johnson's out. I get it.

• 2:15:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:15:03Bill Simmons?

  But I think they're gonna be able to move the ball against one of the worst defenses I've ever seen in my life. We did the mailbag thing earlier about the overreaction. I like that. I think they can win the game outright, but also get the cheap touchdown at the end if they're down 10.

• 2:15:16Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 2:15:17Bill Simmons?

  Um, that golf in a dome does worry me a little bit. Gibbs and, you know, but Gibbs had less touches last week and I do think they overused them the first couple of weeks.

• 2:15:27Bill Simmons?

  And I just like the spot for the cards. Again, this is only their second home game and it's mid-October.

• 2:15:33Speaker 03

  It's gonna sound silly, um, to point out that, you know, Detroit is leaving points on the board when they scored 31, 31, 31, 26.

• 2:15:43Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:43Speaker 03

  But they did cost me money last week. They should have sailed over the 27 and a half. That was the team total. So they can eat a, a, a small fat dick for sure. Not covering that.

• 2:15:55Bill Simmons?

  They can eat a skinny dick.

• 2:15:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, skinny dick. But they had every opportunity, even with the ball at the end of that game last week, to just go get down the field, you know, just, just be calm, cool and collected about it. And, and golf just isn't that dude. I don't know why, but you know, it was, uh, it was, the moment called for poise the end of that game.

• 2:16:20Bill Simmons?

  I think, you know how the line changes on Sunday?

• 2:16:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:16:23Bill Simmons?

  Cause the sharps come in late.

• 2:16:26Bill Simmons?

  I think this game's gonna go to, the sharps are early and late. I think this goes back down to like three and a half by Sunday.

• 2:16:33Speaker 03

  It could be. But now's the time to grab it, right?

• 2:16:37Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. And I, I think the cards can move the ball, right? They, they played Seattle in week two. They didn't move the ball. Seattle kicked their ass. Was that who they lost to?

• 2:16:49Bill Simmons?

  Now, now I'm second guessing myself. They got their ass kicked by somebody in week two. I'm not gonna make a how edit this because I want people to know that I'm a human being. Yeah, it was Seattle. They lost 31 to seven.

• 2:17:01Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:17:01Bill Simmons?

  But they, they couldn't move the ball at all. And that's fine. I'm not saying they're world beaters, but I think they're gonna be able to move the ball against Detroit shit defense. Now Detroit's gonna start getting some guys back soon and this might be better.

• 2:17:14Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 2:17:15Bill Simmons?

  When we get to mid-season, but it's not better yet. So Cardinals plus five and a half is my second pick. What do you got?

• 2:17:21Speaker 03

  Um, well, I've already given two picks, so this is my third.

• 2:17:25Bill Simmons?

  Pick three left and you have a teaser left.

• 2:17:27Speaker 03

  Yeah. I'll, I'll do, um, the pick and then I'll, I'll save the teaser. Um, gonna go ahead and ride with your New England Patriots. Gonna do it.

• 2:17:36Bill Simmons?

  Pretty good case.

• 2:17:37Speaker 03

  Lay in the three and a half at home. The Raiders have had a very impressive run. It's been impressive that they've come out from the franchise that they were just 10 months ago to the franchise that they are at the moment. And you have to give it up to Kubiak and you have to give it up to the front office. You have to give it up to Kirk Cousins, who pulled the backdoor cover out of his rear end. He shut down America.

• 2:18:06Bill Simmons?

  Moving around in the pocket.

• 2:18:07Speaker 03

  Incredible.

• 2:18:08Bill Simmons?

  Big pass rush. Great job by him.

• 2:18:10Speaker 03

  Great job by him. And that, that Chiefs team put us on notice that they can't really be trusted with that defense. I did, I did take note. I mean, I.

• 2:18:18Bill Simmons?

  I do really, really like the rookie cornerback though.

• 2:18:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, sure.

• 2:18:22Bill Simmons?

  He's, he's been jumping out of the TV every week. Like they seem like they hit that pick.

• 2:18:25Speaker 03

  They did a great job with him. Uh, Delane, Man, Man Sore, is that?

• 2:18:30Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:18:31Speaker 03

  Yeah. Um, they're, I'm on notice with the Chiefs. I'm, I'm gonna keep an eye on, I mean, I had to bet them after week one with the way Kenneth Walker exploded onto the scene. I had to get out of all of my under positions with them, uh, and hedge with some overs and some division, but, the Raiders, that was a, a very tough division game. They got to the benefit of being at home. They've really sowed their oats against, you know, the, the Dolphins and the Saints and, uh, the Chargers. They showed it to us. That was good.

• 2:19:05Speaker 03

  I just like the idea of the Patriots at home getting reset. There's some great numbers that support the idea of Vrabel especially after, uh, losing to a team the previous year.

• 2:19:18Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:19Speaker 03

  It's a funky stat, but he doesn't tend to lose to the same team.

• 2:19:22Bill Simmons?

  It's funny, cause I always feel the opposite. I hate playing the team that felt really comfortable beating us in our house the year before and somehow it's happening again.

• 2:19:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:19:31Bill Simmons?

  Makes me nervous.

• 2:19:31Speaker 03

  Vrabel 10 and four straight up, 11 and three against the spread. That's the Action Network pals. Also, this was a shocking stat to me. Drake May as a favorite of three or more points. Guess what his record is against the spread?

• 2:19:43Bill Simmons?

  It's really, really, really good.

• 2:19:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. Four, 14 and O.

• 2:19:48Speaker 03

  14 and O.

• 2:19:49Bill Simmons?

  I looked at it for a long time and I couldn't get there for two reasons. I was scared of the hook.

• 2:19:54Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:19:56Bill Simmons?

  Well, three reasons. I don't like that they won in New England the year before, cause they'll just be like, we won in New England last year. But the biggest thing, this is hardcore deep Patriot shit, but I really don't think we're gonna be able to cover their tight ends.

• 2:20:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:20:11Bill Simmons?

  It's, it's the weakness of this defense is speedy running backs, like in the flat basically, which is one of the many reasons that was so crazy. Buffalo only barely used James Cook in that game. He, I thought he was the guy that was gonna kill us, but the tight ends, and they didn't throw to Kincaid that much either. I just don't think our linebackers are good enough over the middle and I, I'm worried the tight ends are gonna feast. So I think of that hook, even if they're up 10. And I feel like the Raiders are gonna move the ball. So that's why I stayed away.

• 2:20:43Speaker 03

  Fair.

• 2:20:45Bill Simmons?

  We had this guy, by the way, Yakis, the second round pick.

• 2:20:48Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:20:49Bill Simmons?

  He's, he's a edge rusher. He's fucking lights out. Like they might've actually really nailed this pick. Go look at the, the advanced stats where they have like the best, like he's in all of that. He bull rushed, uh, Dawkins on the Bills last week and like kicked his ass. Yeah, this guy's like a legit dude. I'll, I'll be interested to see if he can keep it going.

• 2:21:08Speaker 03

  Pressures. I'll look for him.

• 2:21:10Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. I'm gonna do a tease.

• 2:21:14Bill Simmons?

  It's the most chalk tease of all time.

• 2:21:16Speaker 03

  Let's see it.

• 2:21:17Bill Simmons?

  And I thought about long and hard about whether I wanted to go chalk, cause last week's tease was pretty chalk too with the Bills and the Seahawks.

• 2:21:25Bill Simmons?

  And I didn't, I didn't have a good betting week last week in real life, to say the least.

• 2:21:32Bill Simmons?

  Trying to stick with the process. You have, you can have a bad week every once in a while. You can't overreact. You can't, you just gotta, it's like golf. You can have a bad hole, just go back, try to birdie the next hole. The Jags going down to 0.5 against the Eagles in London. This breaks my rule of don't touch the London game.

• 2:21:53Speaker 03

  Oh no, you, you don't get it at 0.5. That line is seven and a half.

• 2:21:57Bill Simmons?

  It's 1.5, yeah.

• 2:21:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:21:58Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, sorry. 1.5 for the Jags.

• 2:22:03Bill Simmons?

  I just, I had the Jags last week. I just believe in the Jags. I don't think the market has corrected itself on the Jags set. I think they're really good. So, um, combined with the fact that Philly has their offensive line seemingly is in shambles. Barkley, I don't know how much they're getting out of Devonta Smith this week. And, uh, I'm fully prepared to wake up with you at 6:30, 6:45 in the morning and the Eagles will be up 10, nothing. It's fine. Not worried. Jags is one side. And then the other side is the obvious, the Texans at 0 and 4.

• 2:22:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:22:35Bill Simmons?

  With Ryan's taking back the defense.

• 2:22:36Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 2:22:37Bill Simmons?

  Going against this mess of a Titans team. And the, and I don't have to worry about the Texans looking ahead or not caring, or oh my God, we can't, we gotta keep stuff in the bag for the Jags. Cause this is like, a season is over if they don't cover this. And I think the Titans are terrible. So Jags, Texans, this is the easiest tease of the year, which makes me super nervous.

• 2:23:01Speaker 03

  Well, you're violating, you know, number one rule.

• 2:23:05Bill Simmons?

  I get it. I get it.

• 2:23:06Speaker 03

  No international games. Stay away from the internet. You yelled at me about that last week.

• 2:23:11Bill Simmons?

  I'm violating a couple of rules. I'm going in with eyes wide open.

• 2:23:15Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:23:15Bill Simmons?

  And my clothes on.

• 2:23:16Speaker 03

  It's the most obvious tease in America.

• 2:23:18Bill Simmons?

  I just think one of these is gonna hit. We haven't had the, the obvious teases have not been doing well. And I get it, it's chalk and you got it, but I just think this one, we're overthinking this and this is just gonna hit. Jags, Texans is my tease. What do you have for a tease?

• 2:23:33Speaker 03

  Well, I have the Texans also because that, that one and a half, they, um, have been in, in this situation before where they, I think they were 0 and 3 last season and then beat the pants off of the, uh, off of Tennessee, which is what they, they do. I mean, their second game, they had Davis Mills last season. They still won, Houston did. But the, uh, I just, you know.

• 2:23:55Bill Simmons?

  Texans, Jags would both be down to 1.5, just to be clear. So the way to get screwed here is missed extra point in the first half. Uh-oh. Oh my God. Um, something else weird happens and you end up winning by one, but you don't cover the tease.

• 2:24:10Speaker 03

  That would be.

• 2:24:12Bill Simmons?

  That would be classic Jags. I could totally see it.

• 2:24:14Speaker 03

  It could definitely happen.

• 2:24:16Bill Simmons?

  What's your other side? So you have the Texans and what's the other side?

• 2:24:19Speaker 03

  I'm, I'm taking the Saints. There's a lot of interest out there. I see people taking the Saints. Um, now it had been two and a half all week, but for some reason, FanDuel has it at one and a half, and it must be because people are plowing in to the Saints. Um, I'm just taking them north of a touchdown. They are a backdoor cover waiting to happen. This, the Saints team. Um, especially after they were humiliated by Atlanta on a, on a national platform. Um, I think the Minnesota side of this is what's compelling to me. The way that they let.

• 2:24:58Bill Simmons?

  The fact that they have no receivers, Kyler Murray and terrible running backs and then a depleted offensive line. You like all those things?

• 2:25:05Speaker 03

  That Dolphins game, the Dolphins really could have won that game outright.

• 2:25:09Bill Simmons?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:25:10Speaker 03

  And we know what, what that, and that was in Minnesota.

• 2:25:14Bill Simmons?

  The Dolphins were carrying themselves in the second half. Like they thought they were about to win the game.

• 2:25:18Speaker 03

  They sure were. They had their chances.

• 2:25:21Bill Simmons?

  Yep.

• 2:25:22Speaker 03

  I mean, we didn't need the Hawkinson going down. That hurt me. I, I played that in the Ringer 107, of course. When that line went from, you know, under, under 10 on Sunday morning, of course I went and played that. Minnesota minus nine and a half.

• 2:25:36Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Cause you can't really say the Vikings, they couldn't even score a touchdown against Miami. They're, they could have scored a touchdown. The guy just went down to the one yard line.

• 2:25:43Speaker 03

  But they didn't. They didn't score a touchdown against Miami.

• 2:25:47Bill Simmons?

  So this Saints pick, I was alarmed by how bad the Saints were on Monday night. I didn't think that, that went beyond just a stink bomb. They couldn't block. Their defense was, was, the defense was just awful. Um, there's, it felt like they had no chance to stop the run. And the Falcons pass rush, which I guess might be good. I have no idea why, but the Falcons pass rush was in their ass the whole game. They're missing their left tackle Banks who they, you know, was a top 10 pick.

• 2:26:20Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:26:21Bill Simmons?

  And I wonder if they've had too many injuries. To me, they're a stay away, but I appreciate your, uh.

• 2:26:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, I understand.

• 2:26:27Bill Simmons?

  Appreciate your ballsiness throwing them in there.

• 2:26:29Speaker 03

  Just, I mean, this is just trying to take advantage of Minnesota that, you know, their, their defensive numbers are outstanding because they've played terrible offenses, the worst offenses in the league, and they caught, you know, Chicago in a rainstorm where Chicago, you know, had a turnover on the, on, on Minnesota's goal line.

• 2:26:48Bill Simmons?

  All right. For my last pick, I really wanted to take the Falcons because I loved how they looked on Monday night. And for some reason they can rush the passer and block and run the ball. And I didn't see it coming. And I thought they were going to suck this year, but there's something really happening with them. Sunday night game, Collinsworth, talking about Bijon Robinson, super excited. Sounds great.

• 2:27:09Bill Simmons?

  The three and a half scares me.

• 2:27:12Bill Simmons?

  It looks too easy.

• 2:27:14Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 2:27:15Bill Simmons?

  No Lamar.

• 2:27:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:27:16Bill Simmons?

  Huntley running around for the cheap, I, I just, I can't trust the Falcons with the hook yet. So I'm not doing that.

• 2:27:24Speaker 03

  Good job.

• 2:27:24Bill Simmons?

  Bears, Packers.

• 2:27:25Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 2:27:27Bill Simmons?

  So close to getting there with that one. Minus one and a half in Green Bay. Thinking long and hard about taking a backup QB in Lambeau because I think the Packers are just bad.

• 2:27:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:27:37Bill Simmons?

  Um.

• 2:27:39Speaker 03

  I really, I almost took the Packers. I, I did.

• 2:27:43Bill Simmons?

  They look like such a great zag pick. There's no, they, nothing, they've shown nothing over the first four weeks to make you trust them at all. Against Ben Johnson, who's on a fucking heater, by the way. And yet I can do it.

• 2:27:58Bill Simmons?

  That leaves me with a minus three, which I hate doing because of the tie potential. Um, and it leaves me going against the San Francisco 49ers, who I'm terrified of.

• 2:28:09Bill Simmons?

  During October, Halloween, they're the Michael Myers team. Every time they're dead, they fucking get back up.

• 2:28:14Speaker 03

  Well, they're not dead.

• 2:28:15Bill Simmons?

  You jam a wire hanger in their eye, they just get up.

• 2:28:18Speaker 03

  They're not dead.

• 2:28:18Bill Simmons?

  They just keep getting up. They've like, oh, we lost more guys. Okay, we're fine. We lost our fullback this week who we have all our good stuff for. Now we're fine. We'll just put somebody else in.

• 2:28:32Bill Simmons?

  Come on. Seattle minus three? This is like too much fear of the, the 49ers halo effect. By the way, they don't really need the game, right?

• 2:28:43Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 2:28:43Bill Simmons?

  Totally banged up. Seattle actually does need the game because they still have to play in San Francisco. It's only minus three. And I'll tell you another thing with Seattle. They really found something with Wilson. I thought Wilson, and I, I have him on both of my fantasy teams because I had Jadarian Price that I had to get the backup. I thought Wilson was genuinely good last week. Like really like hitting holes, creating space. They're throwing the ball to the backfield to him.

• 2:29:08Speaker 03

  He's a viable NFL running back, unlike the rookie.

• 2:29:12Bill Simmons?

  And there's some, uh, some really shaky stats with the, with the Niners that make you wonder how, I mean, the DBOA is good, right? They're, they're first in offense, five in defense. It's a little, little schedule dominant. But like for Havik, that Havik stat that the bundle loves.

• 2:29:30Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:29:30Bill Simmons?

  28th in Havik.

• 2:29:32Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 2:29:33Bill Simmons?

  The only teams worse are the Saints, Titans, Colts and Giants. Um, Seahawks pass rush win weight through week four. Seahawks number one at 69%.

• 2:29:45Speaker 03

  Win rate.

• 2:29:46Bill Simmons?

  Win rate. Win, win rate.

• 2:29:48Speaker 03

  Win rate.

• 2:29:49Bill Simmons?

  We've been podcasting for three hours. Um, I don't know. I think Seattle's good, due for like an ass kicking against a good team where we're like, oh shit, Seattle. They're here and I don't think the Niners need the game. So that's gonna be my last pick.

• 2:30:01Speaker 03

  That's a good pick. Shanahan doesn't have a great record, um, against McDonald. I'm, I'm curious about the three. What do you think in this modern era? Seattle's home field advantages. Isn't it two and a half? I mean, the standard home field advantage now is one and a half.

• 2:30:19Bill Simmons?

  Right. So you think it's, it's like two, two and a half. Yeah.

• 2:30:23Speaker 03

  So they're only.

• 2:30:24Bill Simmons?

  I think people are afraid of San Francisco, just point blank.

• 2:30:27Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:30:29Bill Simmons?

  I really wanted to take the Falcons, but the extra point killed me.

• 2:30:33Speaker 03

  The hat, the hook.

• 2:30:34Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. I really thought if it was minus two and a half, I was so impressed by them last week.

• 2:30:38Speaker 03

  Get laid the hook against Snoop Huntley? Can't do that.

• 2:30:41Bill Simmons?

  Also some energy in Atlanta right now with the, the dream, my girl Angel Reese.

• 2:30:45Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:30:46Bill Simmons?

  Um, the, the Hawks season about to start with the, they're thinking about trying to be a top 16.

• 2:30:51Speaker 03

  We're gonna do our, our win totals. I mean, spoiler, I am bullish on this Hawks team.

• 2:30:57Bill Simmons?

  Oh, interesting.

• 2:30:58Speaker 03

  I am bullish on this Hawks team.

• 2:30:59Bill Simmons?

  Um, okay. That was today's Ringer 107. It was, oh, I gotta do, I gotta tell you who we actually picked. We both have the Steelers.

• 2:31:06Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:31:07Bill Simmons?

  Minus two and a half.

• 2:31:08Speaker 03

  Good one.

• 2:31:09Bill Simmons?

  You have the Rams minus three and a half against Buffalo. You're not afraid of the hook against Josh Allen.

• 2:31:16Bill Simmons?

  I have the Cardinals plus five and a half at home against the Lions. I think they can win that game outright. I also have Seattle minus three against the Niners. You have my Patriots minus three and a half.

• 2:31:27Speaker 03

  Not afraid of the hook against Kirk Cousins either, even though he did it last week.

• 2:31:31Bill Simmons?

  You have a tease of the Texans and the Saints. Saints up to seven and a half, Texans down to one and a half. I had the Texans as well in my tease, but I put the Jaguars with them. I broke the rule of don't tease.

• 2:31:45Speaker 03

  It's the rules.

• 2:31:46Bill Simmons?

  Or parlay the London game. I did it. We'll be watching it together on Sunday. Um, hopefully the Jaguars won't be down 10, nothing when I wake up. And then, uh, FanDuel said you'll be asleep by 3:30 PM.

• 2:31:58Speaker 03

  They're wrong. That's wrong.

• 2:31:59Bill Simmons?

  They said there's going to be Bloody Marys and beef stew and you'll be passed out during the second half of these games.

• 2:32:04Speaker 03

  If, if, I'm gonna invite them to eat a fat dick. I will be wide awake. I'll be enjoying all the sports of the day.

• 2:32:10Bill Simmons?

  Well, today's Ringer 107 was brought to you by FanDuel. Download the app now to find all of our 107 picks. Make this your most rewarding season ever. FanDuel Player Game Odd Subject to Change. House, I'll see you on Sunday. Can't wait.

• 2:32:22Speaker 03

  I can't wait. I can't wait to show up with the Stanley cock.

• 2:32:27Bill Simmons?

  All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Mahoney. Thanks to House. Thanks to Pellicero. Uh, thanks to Gahow. And thanks to Jack Wilson and Chris and, uh, and thanks to Eduardo, wherever he is. We don't know where he is. Hopefully he turns up at, at some point. I'm going to be back Sunday night. We're going to be live on Netflix with, uh, Cousin Sal. And hopefully I'm not in a food coma, but we'll be live right after. Atlanta, Baltimore. Come find us on Netflix or just listen to us or watch us after on Spotify. Enjoy the weekend. Don't forget, uh, don't forget to place a wager on UCLA because they're going to beat Oregon this weekend. Right there. UCLA five and a, it's about to happen. See you on Sunday.

• 2:33:27Bill Simmons?

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