How to Build Inner Strength, Stay Grounded and Keep Going Through Life’s Challenges with Sifan Hassan #584

It’s easy to be inspired by success, but the real lessons often lie in what it took to get there. After all, true strength isn’t just physical; it’s found in how we face change, challenge and the unknown. In this episode of my Feel Better, Live More podcast, I sit down with one of the most extraordinary athletes of our time, Sifan Hassan. Sifan is a Dutch middle- and long-distance runner, celebrated for her versatility and achievements in athletics. Born in Ethiopia and raised in the Netherlands as a refugee, she is known for competing at the highest level in a wide range of distances, including the 1500m, 5000m, 10,000m, and the marathon. She is a two-time World Champion, an Olympic medallist, and holds multiple European Championship titles. Her journey from refugee to Olympic and World Champion has captivated the world, not just for what she’s achieved, but for how she approaches life. Sifan’s story is one of courage, faith, and relentless curiosity. In this wonderful conversation, we explore: How growing up in Ethiopia and later seeking asylum in the Netherlands shaped Sifan’s inner strength, perspective and deep appreciation for opportunity The role running played in navigating life in a new country, and how it offered focus, purpose and belonging Why failure, fear and self-doubt have been central to her journey, and how she’s learned to embrace them as essential parts of growth and performance How Sifan continues to find joy in running, despite the pressures of elite sport, and why staying curious matters more to her than winning What her training now looks like behind the scenes - including the shifts she’s made to prioritise recovery, longevity and mental balance Why she sees rest, sleep and routine as forms of discipline, and how simplicity keeps her grounded What she’s come to understand about identity, letting go of perfection, and finding peace with who she is, beyond the medals You don’t need to be an athlete to connect with Sifan’s story; it speaks to something deeply human in all of us. In a world that often celebrates outcomes, this conversation invites us to embrace the process of becoming, adapting, and learning. Sifan’s perspective is a beautiful example of what it means to stay rooted in who we are, even when life takes us far from where we began. I hope you enjoy listening. Support the podcast and enjoy Ad-Free episodes. Try FREE for 7 days on Apple Podcasts https://apple.co/feelbetterlivemore. For other podcast platforms go to https://fblm.supercast.com. Thanks to our sponsors: https://drinkag1.com/livemore https://www.boncharge.com/livemore https://join.whoop.com/livemore Show notes https://drchatterjee.com/584 DISCLAIMER: The content in the podcast and on this webpage is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your doctor or qualified healthcare provider. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on the podcast or on my website. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  I say, actually, you're greater because of failure. The more you try, the more you fail. The more also you succeed because you try. Imagine if you try only one, two times, you may win one, two times. But if I try 10 times, I fail five times, I win five times. Who's the winner? I'm winner. I win more than you. So it's like this.

• 0:23Rangan Chatterjee?

  Hey guys, how you doing? Hope you're having a good week so far. My name is Dr. Rangan Chatterjee and this is my podcast, Feel Better Live More.

• 0:35Rangan Chatterjee?

  It's so easy to be inspired by success, but the real lessons often lie in what it took to get there. After all, true strength is not just physical. It's found in how we deal with change, manage adversity and embrace the unknown. This week, I sit down with one of the most extraordinary athletes of our time, Sifan Hassan. Born in Ethiopia and raised in the Netherlands as a refugee, she has gone on to become a two-time world champion, an Olympic medalist and the holder of multiple European championship titles. Her journey from refugee to Olympic and world champion has captivated the world and I would

• 1:20Rangan Chatterjee?

  say that Sifan is celebrated not only for her versatility and achievements, but also for her spirit and the inspiring way in which she approaches life. In our conversation, we explore how growing up in Ethiopia and later seeking asylum in the Netherlands shaped her inner strength and outlook, the role that running has played in navigating life in a new country and how it offered her focus, purpose and belonging. Why failure, fear and self doubts have been central to her journey and how she's learned to embrace them as essential parts of growth and performance.

• 2:00Rangan Chatterjee?

  How she continues to find joy in running despite the pressures of elite sports. Why staying curious matters more to her than winning. Why she sees rest, sleep and routine as forms of discipline that keep her grounded? And how she has managed to let go of perfection and find peace with who she is. You simply do not need to be an athlete to connect with Stefan's story. It's a story of courage, faith and relentless curiosity. And her outlook on life is a beautiful example of what it means to stay rooted in who we are, even when life takes us far from where we began.

• 2:48Rangan Chatterjee?

  You're someone who has taken the running world by storm over the past few years. And you must have experienced that there is a real outpouring of love for you all over the world. Why do you think that is?

• 3:04Speaker 00

  I think because everybody have seen people do just the same things for me. When I'm running a kind of mix, I go up and down. Sometime run 500 meter marathon and people think, they always thought, oh, when athlete move to the marathon, it is harder to back to the track. They have never done, but I'm just very curious. I was like, okay, what if I did this, what if I do? So I think maybe because I run marathon and go back to track and then I go run marathon and go back to the track. The first times I think when the people shocked in London Marathon, 2023, when I stopped, it's the race. And I win the race.

• 3:44Speaker 00

  Then I did, after two months, I did some track race and they was like, oh, that's possible. Then I did world championship after three months and then I get silver, I think silver 500 meter or something. And then after six week, I did Chicago marathon and then I get run the fastest second time ever. And maybe that's why people think it's like, this is something crazy.

• 4:13Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah, I think there's a couple of things people really like about you. Certainly speaking from my own experience, you run with a real carefree joy, right? You smile a lot and it's just a beautiful smile from the inside of you that I think people are not used to seeing when athletes compete. So I think that's one reason, this curiosity, this joy. I think also this idea that you

• 4:44Rangan Chatterjee?

  Constantly move out of your comfort zone. You're not afraid to fail at something. You're not afraid to say, yeah, you know what? I know most athletes don't do this, but I'm going to go from the 5K to the marathon. I think that's also something that people really admire and respect about you. Where do you think that comes from?

• 5:04Speaker 00

  It could be experience, you know. So I think this could be something also inside just because I was, I come as a young lady to Netherlands and that's also just a kind of out of comfort as well. And then I was like, I think around the age 20 something, I have to take step my life for big, big picture. I was start 2016, the years of Rio, I get injured before the race. Like I thought I'm not even gonna go Rio. And after that, I was really depressed, I was so angry and I even hated running. I used to lock the door and not talk to anyone. I thought, you know, this is not healthy.

• 5:48Speaker 00

  And I'm also Muslim and according to us, like when something happened to you, you should be grateful. You should say, oh, I'm healthy, I have failed this, this. You always look the people down to you. You can't complain too much about life. So I thought, oh, this also against my religion, that's not good. I said to myself, oh, I'm gonna stop running. I think I were like, I don't know, was like 24 something. I decide to go holiday by myself like for a month. I go Morocco, I go something, somewhere else. And after that, oh, I wanna run. But when I wanna run, I really wanna change myself. Whether what has happened, I just have fun, I just wanna see. And then I decide to also go to America. Already build friendship in Netherlands.

• 6:32Speaker 00

  I have good friend, I have already home, family, everything there. And I decide, oh, I'm gonna go to America. So I talk to everybody and many people say actually, look, Sifa, you are already in Diamond League top number one or number two. Every race, even 800, 500 meter, 5 kilometer, wherever you race, you are top three. If you go more From this coach, what if you don't succeed? So I have to decide, I have to think, oh, if this thing does a success, I'm gonna have failure. So I look at myself, okay, when I go like later, when I'm fifty five years, do I go back, look it, and this thing is no good to do, or I should done this? I say, I I look at us like, okay, what if I don't get success?

• 7:17Speaker 00

  But still, my brain want to try that, you know? When I don't regret later, I still, it doesn't matter, I did everything. So the hardest moment, when I'm already you are success, you think, oh, this is the way, I'm always number three, number two, sometimes winning. But I just thought, okay, even if I go in, I will take some step to go to US.

• 7:37Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah, this is so interesting because many people play it safe in life, don't they? They they get a, let's say, a degree of success. I'm not talking about athletics and running now, about anything, they get to a degree of success. And then they stay locked where they are, they they don't want to push themselves beyond that, what if they lose what they've got?

• 7:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, you get my thing.

• 7:59Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah, and and that's the thing I, you know, when I listen to you talk and hear your words, it it very much comes across that you're someone who, as you said, you don't want regrets. You'd rather take a risk and fail than not having taken the risk at all, right?

• 8:20Speaker 00

  Exactly, yeah, you get my point. So that is, I think, even I was thinking, my some half of my brain thought, I'm gonna lose and no, never win or never number three or don't even make to Olympic. But it's still my brain, no, just tried it and you, when you get older, you say, oh, I did everything, you know, to be the best runner, to improve myself. So when I make that decision, I can't tell you, I become totally different because that's the most hardest. You already having something, you have good contract to the shoe company, I could provide for myself, I would run world championships. I already in safe place, but I have to move out of discomfort, push myself.

• 9:04Speaker 00

  No, even no, no, no one was helping me. There was many people like, no, that's not a good idea. How's possible you're gonna do that?

• 9:11Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah, people say this a lot, don't they? They unintentionally put us down and keep us where we are, right? Oh, it's not a good idea. It's really interesting. Um, there's a lot of non-runners who listen to this podcast, okay? And just to put it in context, for people who who are not familiar with running, in 2023, you ran the London Marathon, one of the premier marathon races on the planet. That was your very first marathon and you ended up winning it. Okay, so I don't know if that has ever been done before, someone in their first race. What was also incredible is during that race,

• 9:54Rangan Chatterjee?

  you were written off by the experts on many occasions. I don't know if you've seen a rerun and heard what the commentators were saying.

• 10:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:03Rangan Chatterjee?

  Because you stopped at various times, right? To stretch, you know, and, you know, I've, I've watched a rerun and some of these very, very experienced commentators actually said, somebody should take her off the course, she's going to damage herself. Yet you came from nowhere to not only catch up with the lead pack, you then went and won the race, right? So talk us through that race. Did you think about pulling out? When you were pulling up at the side and stretching your hamstring and the leaders are getting further ahead, what went through your minds?

• 10:38Speaker 00

  So as a pro athlete, when you wanna run marathon, you don't go to major marathon, big marathon, like London, you don't even think it.

• 10:46Rangan Chatterjee?

  Oh, you, you warm up in other races first?

• 10:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, other races, you always do the safe part. You go some, just a small marathon and you just see how good you are, then you're good. But to me, I immediately, when I say I'm gonna run marathon, I was like, I'm gonna do London. They was like, oh, London is too, too risky because they're going a lot of. Uh, big people like it's better you run some. I say, no, I wanna do London. Then a car after when you go home, you're like, is that a smart idea? No, your brain is like, I think that's stupid. So I had really for three months, this just even the night. Oh, that's no good ideas. It's better listening, you know, listen to the people around you. You're like, uh, again, no, I wanna do it.

• 11:30Speaker 00

  So when the race happened and I just say, see, oh, my God, everybody telling me I didn't listen. This is gonna happen. I would like even asking God, I just wanna go something like twenty five K, twenty eight K. So I just say, oh, I have experience.

• 11:45Rangan Chatterjee?

  Hold on. So when you were stretching and it looked to everyone that you were injured.

• 11:49Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 11:49Rangan Chatterjee?

  In your head, you were saying, I knew this would happen. Everyone told me not to race.

• 11:54Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 11:55Rangan Chatterjee?

  So how did you go from that to winning?

• 11:57Speaker 00

  I kind of stretched like just let me run just two K, three K more. And I was like, the pain, it didn't increase.

• 12:05Rangan Chatterjee?

  It did not increase.

• 12:05Speaker 00

  It didn't increase. Then I start running, it is shock. Then I was like, the pain was like, it's staying there. I thought, okay, I was like, actually, okay, I'm gonna do. When I start eh, like around twenty eight or something, I was already grateful. I say, I don't care what happened, even if I stop also, I have experience. I was like, I have experience.

• 12:24Rangan Chatterjee?

  So when you were at twenty eight K and the race for people who don't know is forty two K.

• 12:28Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 12:28Rangan Chatterjee?

  You're just going, okay, this is good. I've got the experience. I've run twenty eight K at a major marathon. Doesn't matter what happens. I'm still learning about this new discipline.

• 12:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:38Rangan Chatterjee?

  Okay, then what happens?

• 12:39Speaker 00

  Then I was like, I was really already happy, like this is the experience. Next time I'm gonna be better, I was running. Then I think I was, I didn't know how to drink because I have Ramadan. Almost I didn't drink. I don't, I didn't practice. I almost get heated by bus when they grab the drink. When I saw the athlete is taking the drink. I read and I was like, okay, how much I have to drink? I was like.

• 13:03Rangan Chatterjee?

  So you're watching the other top athletes. Oh, okay, they're taking it, taking two steps.

• 13:07Speaker 00

  Exactly. And I was, and at five, I, I, I don't know, for some reason, I cut the group. I was really celebrating. People say, oh, she gonna win. I didn't care. I was celebrating. I was like, I'm so happy. I was with this elite athlete, who's the greatest marathon runner ever. I was so grateful. I think one thing in our life also, being grateful is actually what make you lead to success. I was so grateful and I was cheering. And my energy actually increased by just, you know, somebody, when you win, you already have for couple hour high energy. I was already celebrating, you know, celebrating.

• 13:44Rangan Chatterjee?

  So that was at thirty eight K.

• 13:45Speaker 00

  Uh.

• 13:46Rangan Chatterjee?

  So you're feeling grateful, the gratitude is giving you more energy.

• 13:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:49Rangan Chatterjee?

  You're with some of the top runners of all time. So there's four K left. What goes on between thirty eight and forty two that means you end up getting the gold?

• 13:59Speaker 00

  So I was running with them. I was just happy with our number four, number three. I didn't fail. I was like, in the end, I was like, I know I have kick, but the kick become really, I was so powerful. I was sprinting like crazy. I was like, couldn't believe it, like, how, is I never imagine I will go to London Marathon as my first marathon? And I'm gonna win. I was like, I was like, I won London Marathon. The, the marathon I watch on the TV. I was like, really, I couldn't believe I was sprint. I was like, I win, I win in London Marathon.

• 14:32Rangan Chatterjee?

  But you know, it's funny, when you were sprinting, and I think this goes back to what people love about you. There was a playfulness with your sprint. Okay. It certainly to me, and I'm not a running coach. It wasn't an intense focus, right? I practice this, now I've got to run, I've got a hundred meters to go. It was almost this disbelief, this kind of happiness, this, I don't know, there was, there was a real freedom. I felt watching you. And I don't know, it keeps coming back to the same point, which is. How many of us listen to the voices around us that maybe our parents, maybe our work colleagues, maybe our boss, maybe our friends,

• 15:17Rangan Chatterjee?

  they're not trying to keep us down, they're trying to help us. Yeah, people were trying to help you say, hey, don't go to London Marathon. It's risky.

• 15:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:25Rangan Chatterjee?

  But Savannah, even that word risky is interesting to me. I don't know what your take is, but it's only risky, I guess, if the goal is winning.

• 15:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:36Rangan Chatterjee?

  If the goal is just to get experience, well, it's not risky, right?

• 15:40Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:40Rangan Chatterjee?

  So it depends what your definition of success is.

• 15:43Speaker 00

  So what do you say is right? So 2019, I become the best 500 meter, 5K and 10,000 meter runner. So your people around you or your coach always choose the same. I was in three events, so I have to cancel one because 500 meter, 5,000 meter, just 13 minutes apart. So they have 5,000 meter and the 10,000 meter runner, the same athlete. So if you win 10,000 meter, because you're going to compete at the same athlete, you're gonna, you don't know what happened, but you're gonna guarantee by almost 99% you're gonna win 5,000 meter also.

• 16:26Speaker 00

  So I told my coaches, like, okay, I'm so grateful. You win 10,000 meter, so you're gonna do 5,000 meter. Because the people you go to race it, the same people, you already easy win the one, you're gonna win. You're gonna become like more fara. I told him, no, I wanna do 500 meter. He's like, I argue with him almost two day. Suddenly, I was like, this is risky 500 meter. A fresh athlete, you already run 10,000 meter, your leg is tired. In 500 meter also tactic, you could end it up, become number five. It's tactic race. I told him, it's life all about gold. He's like, no, I said to him, leave me do that and what I love. I just wanna do experience.

• 17:10Rangan Chatterjee?

  When you said, is life just about gold? My whole body lit up, that went straight to my heart. I promise you, because this is something I think about all the time. You know, how are we defining success, right?

• 17:25Rangan Chatterjee?

  You know, the people around you is like, yeah, we want you to win. So the best chance of winning is to do 10,000 and 5,000. If you do 1500, you may not win. But what if winning isn't the goal?

• 17:35Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 17:36Rangan Chatterjee?

  What if experience is the goal?

• 17:38Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 17:39Rangan Chatterjee?

  You know, life is not just about gold.

• 17:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, I remember he couldn't answer that. He let me do and luckily I get a win. But that thing's really helping me because that's the first thing. Then I come to Tokyo years. I was the best shape of my life and I've ever been. So I choose the two, three event. And then, and like, that's like crazy thing. And then, then I like, from 2019, I was thinking I'm gonna do three event. I'm, I'm training with myself, but with my brain, that's crazy. What if you lose everything? So then Covid come, cancelled. Imagine I have to care that thing, train for 2021.

• 18:22Speaker 00

  When 2021 come, 2020, 21 come. I told I'm gonna do three event. I, I can't tell you how many people told me, you're gonna go in P T hand. Even the, the people who's like really close to me, no, she's not gonna this. She's not gonna win this, she's not gonna win this, but she gonna win this. Even the part I tell as a secret is like, I don't think so. She gonna get in T V. I don't think she gonna get this. And even they won't call me, no, you're gonna go in P T hand. That's crazy, that's stupid, that's whatever.

• 18:55Rangan Chatterjee?

  Do you feel any pressure? What I mean by that is you're a professional athlete. Okay, so maybe your sponsors, right? Presumably they're wanting you to be getting medals and being photographed with the gold medal or the silver or the bronze, whatever. When everyone around you is saying no. Does that make you even more determined to follow your heart? Or like, is that there anyway? Or when the people are saying no around you, are you quite stubborn where you go, right, you're saying no? I'm going to show you by saying yes.

• 19:33Speaker 00

  It's what my heart wants. Even if you tell me it's this or that, but it's still, I can be also flexible. I can be, oh, that's maybe no smart. But it's like always something inside of me like, no, do, do, do. I want experience. I want to see what is possible. Does it actually take a power over me? What, what inside me I want? I'm very determined when I want it, when I want it, not when the people tell me you can't do it. Sometimes they say, okay, whatever, whatever you say, I don't care. And I just walk away. But if I believe it, I don't care how many voice shout.

• 20:08Rangan Chatterjee?

  Were you always like that? Even as a little girl growing up in Ethiopia?

• 20:11Speaker 00

  I was very curious. I was very hard for my mom. And luckily, I think it is good. I was grow up in Ethiopia because in Ethiopia, the difference I see in Ethiopia and in Netherlands, the children are different. In Ethiopia, you have baby, the baby is two, three years. The baby do her own things, you know? But in Netherlands, they do every time for, for children, right? In Ethiopia, Maggi, you're already more independent. As a child, you do your own things. But it's also calm because I have, have in my life, as a younger girl, I have a lot of experience around the world. I have lived in Africa as a younger. I lived in Netherlands and I go to America. So I become more open minded.

• 20:56Speaker 00

  Before I was scared. My curiosity kept to myself. I let my curiosity go outside.

• 21:01Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah. You mentioned the word gratitude a lot in this conversation. You mentioned in the 2023 London Marathon, your first marathon that you ended up winning. When you were back on the track after stretching your legs, you just felt grateful that you were able to continue and still be in this incredible race. You also said before that, though, that I think in 2016, you were feeling quite angry and frustrated with performances, right? And you had to remind yourself that your religion teaches you that it's important to be grateful. So I'm interested what happened because it sounds like. There's been quite a profound shift in your psychology with how you approach these things.

• 21:46Rangan Chatterjee?

  In 2016, anger and frustration. 2023, 2024, 2025, a lot more relaxed and grateful for what you get to do. Tell me about that change.

• 21:58Speaker 00

  So when I want to, I grew up, as I told you, when I was a child, my family is Muslim, but they really don't know that much about religion. So when I was decide to go to America, I was like, actually, why I'm Muslim? I have to learn about it, you know? I started deep reading it and I learn a lot. And that, that when I was like, actually, to me, the Islam become the way of life. Not only, not only just a religion, the way of life. Because I come as a younger girl, even in Netherlands, I don't know how to, how to handle when I'm happy. I don't know how to live life when I'm sad. I was coming, I was to Netherlands by myself. So I have to learn from something.

• 22:43Speaker 00

  So that teach me, okay, this is the way you live, this is the way you handle when you're angry. This is, that's, I learn a lot from the religion of Muslim. I was like, I'm also, you know, I'm how I'm curious. I'm like in Netherlands, free, you can, you can do drug. And I had a lot of also bad friends. So I could ended up doing bad things, but luckily because of the, the religion, I ended up actually with good.

• 23:07Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah, so, so for you, it sounds like your religion gave you a framework for how to live.

• 23:13Speaker 00

  Thank you, yes, exactly.

• 23:15Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah, be grateful, right? Be appreciative for what you have, you know? Do this, don't do that, or whatever it might be.

• 23:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 23:23Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah, it's interesting. Can you, I mean, I don't know how much you're prepared to share, but you grew, you were born in Ethiopia, right?

• 23:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 23:30Rangan Chatterjee?

  You know, how was your early childhood in Ethiopia?

• 23:33Speaker 00

  It was really beautiful. So you grow up, you don't have car, you just work for yourself and you run to the school. It's just like playing around. For me, it is just one, as a child, that's one of you dream. When you're a child, you don't care about gold house, gold car, gold thing. It's like, oh, you free, you play, you do barefoot. I grew up running barefoot to there and to here. And it's, it is just a beautiful, as a child, I really enjoy my life. But as you grow up, kind, some of Africa country, it is very. A lot of problem that without like just my nature, I'm very why this, why that. In Africa, sometimes you can't say why this, why that.

• 24:14Rangan Chatterjee?

  As a girl or as a human being?

• 24:18Speaker 00

  As a human being is very hard, actually, like especially with the politics back then, you have to like just start to live the way it is. But it's that's as a human being, even as a girl, I ask everything. And actually that fit me because in Netherlands, they ask everything. They ask everything and they're very direct also.

• 24:37Rangan Chatterjee?

  Okay, so you had a happy childhood, running around, barefoot running, asking questions until you weren't able to, you went to school there. And when you left Ethiopia for the Netherlands at the age of 15, was it just you by yourself?

• 24:53Speaker 00

  I left with somebody, but it's like I don't really have, you know, as a young, you really need your mom, your dad, who guide you to how to live life. I didn't have that one. But I actually I have a lot of mentor in Netherlands, but it is just the culture, the life is totally different, it's totally opposite.

• 25:13Rangan Chatterjee?

  Did you choose the Netherlands or was that just one of the options?

• 25:17Speaker 00

  No, it just happened.

• 25:18Rangan Chatterjee?

  Really?

• 25:19Speaker 00

  Really.

• 25:19Rangan Chatterjee?

  For many of us who have grown up and live in the West, we possibly can't even fathom what it is like at the age of 14 or 15 to have to leave our family and our country to go thousands of miles away and live in a different country with a different culture. Are you happy sharing why you left in the end?

• 25:46Rangan Chatterjee?

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• 26:29Rangan Chatterjee?

  improvement and updating their formula as a scientific research involves. And each batch is independently tested for quality and safety markers, including heavy metals, allergens and banned substances. This is how they can guarantee what's in your scoop and what's not. Right now, AG1 is offering a free AG1 flavour sampler and AGZ sampler to try all the flavours, plus free vitamin D3 and K2 and AG1 welcome kit with your first AG1 subscription order. That's $87 in free gifts for first time subscribers.

• 27:08Rangan Chatterjee?

  All you have to do is head to drinkag1.com/livemore to claim this offer before it ends. Today's episode is sponsored by the daily health drink AG1. The clocks are about to change, the mornings are darker, everyone around you seems to be coming down with something and suddenly that wellbeing you felt in the summer seems a long time ago. I certainly know that feeling and that's why at this time of year, I remind myself to lean into the fundamentals and one of those fundamentals is AG1. AG1 is a daily health drink that has been in my own life for over eight years and one of the many things I like about it is the fact that many of the nutrients it contains,

• 27:48Rangan Chatterjee?

  for example, vitamin C, vitamin A, zinc and selenium, supports a healthy immune system. Some of the other things I really like about AG1 is that they are committed to continuous improvement and updating their formula as a scientific research involves. And each batch is independently tested for quality and safety markers, including heavy metals, allergens and banned substances. This is how they can guarantee what's in your scoop and what's not. Right now, AG1 is offering a free AG1 flavour sampler and AGZ sampler to try all the flavours, plus Free vitamin D3 and K2 and AG1 Welcome Kit with your first AG1 subscription order.

• 28:33Rangan Chatterjee?

  That's eighty seven dollars in free gifts for first time subscribers. All you have to do is head to drinkag1.com forward slash live more to claim this offer before it ends.

• 28:51Speaker 00

  It is just all the politics, like I can go forever, I think I take it long. But it's just like, so back then in Ethiopia, you like many people was, I think it's almost could be like from one president to other president, some president ruled for thirty years, some for five years. So it's almost gone, gone, start from my grandpa, my grandfather, my father, and just always the politics. So I think now it's getting better, but still I think some area they have also three years ago in the half war, they have to leave.

• 29:28Speaker 00

  So every time just go around one group leave, the other group leave, the other, this is just, this is just freaking politics in Africa.

• 29:38Rangan Chatterjee?

  And so when you left, you arrive in the Netherlands, what were those first few days like?

• 29:45Speaker 00

  In Ethiopia, every door is open, every door is open, every people like, there's a lot of community, the children play together. And so the door is closed, I'm like, why the door is closed here?

• 29:56Rangan Chatterjee?

  Right.

• 29:56Speaker 00

  Like for me, also this is the hardest things, like this is the hardest thing. And I'm also a very outdoor person, so most of the time you stay inside, I don't know, watch a movie, whatever. I was like, why? What? That's the hardest thing. I really, I think for two years, I really don't want to stay in the land. I just like, no, it's not my things. But luckily I become independent, I have to think about my life, I was becoming a student, I have to focus, I was like, I'm fine. And I think I adapted the culture also after that very fast. Because they are very direct and very open minded, that's what I am very fitted in.

• 30:34Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah, I've read that you call yourself a very proud Dutch citizen.

• 30:40Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 30:41Rangan Chatterjee?

  How do you think about nationality? You grew up in Ethiopia, your family are Ethiopian, yet you now reside in the Netherlands, in Holland. You know, it's interesting to me.

• 30:54Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 30:54Rangan Chatterjee?

  And the reason I ask also is because I'm, you know, not in the same way as you at all. But, you know, my parents were immigrants from India to the UK in the 1960s and 1970s. So, you know, growing up, I have an Indian background at home. And then in the day I'm at school, so there's kind of Indian values at home, Western values at school. So I've thought a lot about, you know, who am I? Am I British? Am I Indian? You know, why does it even matter? Which is what I think these days. But how do you think about nationality?

• 31:28Speaker 00

  I think to me also, if I'm young enough to say I'm Netherlands, I know about Ethiopia also. So I was also very confused also because when I go back to home a couple, couple of years ago, when they talk about Netherlands, I get infatuated, I get angry. When somebody also say about Ethiopia, I get whatever. So suddenly I become like, okay, I'm just both. Even because now I feel even, so I go to America, so I even feel, oh, I know American people. I lived seven years almost, no, six to the years. So I think if people go, can you change us like back then to 10 years, I say 10 years I go out like, I don't want that. But now if I go back, that's the amazing thing happened to me.

• 32:11Speaker 00

  So it's good things that people know about one place and then come to another place and come to that place. So now it is for me is like, why matter? Why I have to be Ethiopian? Why matter? Why I have to be Netherlands? Kind of both, both.

• 32:25Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah.

• 32:26Speaker 00

  I'm very proud to be African. I'm very proud to be European. Like I just, it's just deep inside. Like I think you know that.

• 32:32Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah, I love hearing that perspective because I think nationality is a thing that people get so attached to. And, I mean, the more I think about these things, I think the more attachments we have, the more trapped we become.

• 32:48Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 32:49Rangan Chatterjee?

  You know, we're all part of the human race.

• 32:52Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 32:52Rangan Chatterjee?

  Right? We're all trying to get on in the world, you know, achieve our goals, lift people up around us. And I think these labels sometimes become really quite limiting for us. And, you know, it's interesting, the London Marathon 2025 was probably just over 24 hours ago when it finished. And the London Marathon Instagram page and your page posted a beautiful video of you having finished. And I think one of your Dutch counterparts was still coming in and you were so excited and you were smiling and you were cheering. And it was really nice to see that sort of camaraderie.

• 33:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, like I will tell you the secret, I never tell anyone yet. I had some breathing problem. I just figured out because yesterday the highest polar, I have a polar allergy. So I couldn't catch up. My brain's like, you can't.

• 33:46Rangan Chatterjee?

  You were feeding the pollen yesterday?

• 33:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, yesterday. So I didn't know that. I just hear it was high pollen, but I couldn't breathe. So the secret I want to tell you, I was already number three. I was, I know I don't catch, but in my brain, oh, you're not gonna catch. I said, at least you're gonna enjoy what is gonna happen to the man. Like immediately I finish, I'm like, oh, I have to watch the man. So.

• 34:06Rangan Chatterjee?

  So what's the ending of the men's race?

• 34:08Speaker 00

  Well, I'm racing like couple, five or six kilometer left. I know I couldn't catch them, the, the, the number one, the leaders. So I was telling my brothers, okay, at least you're gonna enjoy who gonna win at the man, you know, the man that have this year the strongest field ever. I was even curious about how Abdine Gueye gonna race. I was, I know he's training, he's really in good shape. Also, I was curious about Elliot. I was curious about Kiplimo. So I was like, I was even telling a day before, I wish I don't race, I just sit down and watch my race.

• 34:40Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah, it's fascinating hearing that. I mean, I've got so many questions about that race. But one of the things you said before about your first marathon in 2023, when you didn't, because it was Ramadan beforehand, you hadn't trained to know how much fluid should I take, at which distance should I take it? Things that most marathon runners are practicing and they're getting dialed in completely.

• 35:04Rangan Chatterjee?

  And then you weren't taking a drink, right? And then yesterday in the men's race, of course, at that, I think that 35 kilometer drink station, that's when the whole race changed. When the winner didn't take a drink, everyone else takes a drink and he stretches this big gap.

• 35:23Speaker 00

  Ah, yeah, the lady too.

• 35:25Rangan Chatterjee?

  That's what happened.

• 35:26Speaker 00

  The lady did to me that too. At the 20, they take drink, they didn't take, they stretch me out.

• 35:32Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah, isn't that interesting?

• 35:34Speaker 00

  It's very interesting, yeah. You need the fuel, actually. That's how we believe us scientifically. They say you have to have drink at the 35.

• 35:41Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah, but again, it's these, again, I'm not saying we don't need the fuel, but it's interesting that the guy who won the men's race, they didn't take the fuel, but instead he took the opportunity to create a psychological advantage.

• 35:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 35:56Rangan Chatterjee?

  And then I think, well, maybe in 2023, one of the reasons you ran is because maybe you didn't drink.

• 36:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 36:00Rangan Chatterjee?

  Maybe that's a good thing.

• 36:02Speaker 00

  That's true. But also, I think the biggest, whatever your brain believe, if you are a scientist, you will do it. I think the guys just take, okay, I take this opportunity, I'm gonna destroy them. That's what I did, I think.

• 36:15Rangan Chatterjee?

  Can you explain to me? Because I'm not an elite athlete like you.

• 36:23Rangan Chatterjee?

  The importance of that psychology, right? So at a drink station, let's say you're all running together in a group, right? And let's say someone does make a break and they get ahead. What is that like for an athlete? Like if suddenly someone you were running with, suddenly you find is quite far ahead of you in just a few moments. What does it do to you psychologically? Because the commentators kept mentioning you because you won London, you were the Olympic gold medalist from last year's marathon. And when they started to break away, your name kept coming up. The commentators kept saying they're worried about Sifan's kick.

• 37:08Rangan Chatterjee?

  So they are gonna keep checking to make sure they've got clearer Sifan. They don't wanna risk being with her at the end. Now, again, that's the commentators. I don't know if that's true from the athletes. But obviously, because of your amazing kick in 2023 and at the Olympics last year, where there was all kinds of stuff going on at the end, right?

• 37:31Rangan Chatterjee?

  How much does that psychology play into when you're actually racing?

• 37:37Speaker 00

  It's really play bigger.

• 37:39Rangan Chatterjee?

  So it's a big role?

• 37:40Speaker 00

  Big one. So because of what I did in London, I was in Paris and I was feeling so good at the 20K.

• 37:49Rangan Chatterjee?

  20K?

• 37:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, 20K.

• 37:50Rangan Chatterjee?

  So halfway through?

• 37:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, halfway. I was feeling good. And I was like, I saw they are struggling going downhill. I said, can I break them here? And I tried to pass them. And they speak the language, Ethiopian. And I hear the language, I understand. They're like, what she's doing? The other guy say, I think she's gonna go. And I was like, no, I'm not gonna go. I come back.

• 38:14Rangan Chatterjee?

  Oh, so you heard them talking about you?

• 38:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, they were talking about me. I was like, oh, okay, these people are just focused on me. So I saw like all of them look at me like they are only racing with me. So I told myself, no, go back. I just go back. Let me just be safe. Let me play safe card.

• 38:30Rangan Chatterjee?

  That's interesting. So do you think that's because you came from nowhere in 2020? Not from nowhere, to be clear. Obviously, you're an elite athlete. But in terms of the marathon, because you hadn't done that before and you win your first race, like everyone's thinking, oh my, we have to watch her.

• 38:48Speaker 00

  I have seen a lot of amazing athletes who did amazing on the track and then the marathon. It's total, because the energy system is totally different. So I come from nowhere. It's not only the way I win in London was unusual also. So you can't say a person stretch, stop, walk and miss almost drink and then go win. So that's give you all this. Even somebody come to me, they was like, oh, they wanna beat you. They're like in Tokyo, I raced before Paris, they say, oh, they wanna beat you. But the coach say, we are mostly, we are not focused on Tokyo, we are gonna beat her in Paris. So even the London one marathon, because the way I win is totally different.

• 39:30Speaker 00

  It make like I was the greatest marathon runner for many athletes in the head.

• 39:35Rangan Chatterjee?

  So when you heard them talking about you, so this is, I didn't know any of this. This is interesting. So in the 2024 Olympic Marathon, and again, just for the non-runners, you did something remarkable in that Olympics. You competed in the 5K, the 10K, and then the marathon, right? And I remember, because I remember this so well, I had just gone on a family holiday with my wife and children to Kenya for four weeks. And we had just come back and we were watching the Olympics on television. And we, me, my son and my daughter, watched your marathon race. And we were talking about, we just round the TV thinking, she's, she must be knackered today. She must be exhausted because she's just done the 5K and the 10K.

• 40:17Rangan Chatterjee?

  Who's going to do a marathon after already being tired? And what was the time span between the 5K, the 10K and the marathon?

• 40:25Speaker 00

  So the time as well was like, the 5K was two day and then at the 10K, then between, then the 5K is two times, I race two times. The heat.

• 40:36Rangan Chatterjee?

  Oh, the heat.

• 40:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, then two day.

• 40:38Rangan Chatterjee?

  So two 5Ks.

• 40:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, two 5K. And then I raced the 10,000 and then I have 36.

• 40:44Rangan Chatterjee?

  36 hours before the marathon, a day and a half.

• 40:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, but for me, it wasn't really 36 hour because it's less because I have doping control. After the mix zone interview, it take like two hours.

• 40:55Rangan Chatterjee?

  All the interviews afterwards.

• 40:57Speaker 00

  And then I have doping control. I have like 2 AM to my hotel.

• 41:03Rangan Chatterjee?

  Oh, so you get to your hotel at 2 AM. So you're already late. You're not going to get enough sleep.

• 41:07Speaker 00

  No way. And I was like lying down and you also like you have also, when you race as a elite athlete, we have really high adrenaline.

• 41:18Rangan Chatterjee?

  Adrenaline, yeah, you've just been racing, right?

• 41:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly. You can't sleep. So the things I had just a night before the marathon and I go early on 9 PM to go sleep, but my body doesn't want to sleep because I always come, come later for medallist ceremony. Like I couldn't sleep until 1 AM or something. And by 4 AM, I have to wake up.

• 41:40Rangan Chatterjee?

  I mean, it just makes it even more remarkable that you got Olympic gold after all of this. But again, going back to one of the themes earlier on, I think, Sifan, this is one of the things people love about you. There's this, like, impossible doesn't seem to exist for you. It's like, yeah, okay, I'm gonna do it. Doesn't matter, you know? I think many of us in life, we allow excuses to get in our way. We go, oh, you know what? That's happened. Of course I can't do this. And for me, one of the most inspiring things about you is that it seems that you don't really allow excuses in. Like, as you said, there's more to life than winning gold, okay? A great life lesson for all of us. And it seems to be this can-do attitude.

• 42:25Rangan Chatterjee?

  It's like, yeah, okay, well, you know what? The race finished. I had interviews for two hours. I had to do my doping control tests. I'm knackered, but hey ho, why don't I do the marathon and see what happens? Is that literally how you approach it?

• 42:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, to me, I think many people, especially, well, number one, how we destroy ourselves to have an excuse. Like, for London Marathon, for yesterday, if I make excuse, they're like, oh, she's great because she have this problem. But I'm also destroying myself. The good thing is actually because we scared, you know why we don't do many things? Why we don't try? Because we scared to fulfill it. If we fail, and then people gonna judge us. For example, if everybody's like, oh, she's great, I wanna be always they call me greater. Because when they say it's greater, I'm already in comfort zone because everybody think I'm great. But if I try to out of that great comfort zone, I will be maybe challenge feel up.

• 43:22Speaker 00

  People gonna talk about me, I'm not good. So we scared of actually judging, people judge us. I think the great thing is just try it and don't care what they say, you try, you know? Don't think also to be like greatest, just be, do your best. There is nobody great in everything. There is also nobody have bad in anything. Everybody have something, just, just try, you know, do. So what I see is people just scared of trying, you know, because people, somebody gonna judge them.

• 43:51Rangan Chatterjee?

  This is, I mean, such an important bit of wisdom you just shared there for people.

• 43:57Rangan Chatterjee?

  It's really interesting that. You race marathons, but that's really a metaphor for life, isn't it? Life is a marathon.

• 44:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly.

• 44:06Rangan Chatterjee?

  In life, we have to endure. Things are gonna happen. It's gonna feel tough at times and somehow we have to find a way to get through. And actually, I was watching a video of yours this morning, Stefan, and it was really inspiring because you were saying, and to be clear for everyone, you are, you know, one of the world's best athletes. You've got six Olympic medals, I believe.

• 44:26Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 44:26Rangan Chatterjee?

  You're the current Olympic marathon gold medalist, yet you still say that you have both parts of your mind. Sometimes you're really scared before you do something. You have fear, you have nerves.

• 44:38Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 44:38Rangan Chatterjee?

  You're scared that you're not good enough, that you are not enough, yet you do it anyway. And I thought, wow, if someone with six Olympic medals is saying that, that should be inspiring for all of us, for those of us who let fear get in the way of us living our best lives.

• 44:56Speaker 00

  I think I'm gonna, look, for example, after I won a Paris Olympic, everybody think I'm great. So I took after Olympic four or five months off and I'm already gain also weight and especially six weeks ago, I was ready to run London Marathon. So in my heart, because I did already also conference, I was scared, but I know if I had an athlete, if they are not sure they're gonna win, they don't come. But to me, I already used to, because twenty one, I won gold, gold and one silver. Twenty two, I had bad years. I didn't win any race. So there was like, she's done, her life is over. Believe me, we're all scared. I'm scared, I'm terrified sometimes, but I just do it. I just win over my fear.

• 45:41Speaker 00

  So I'm gonna tell everybody, wherever you look, try it. Who cares? Okay, done done, as long as it's not not dangerous, as long as it doesn't kill you, just try it.

• 45:51Rangan Chatterjee?

  So this is interesting. Okay, so having won gold at the London Marathon in twenty twenty three, having won gold at the Olympic Marathon in Paris in twenty twenty four, you came third in the London Marathon yesterday, okay?

• 46:06Rangan Chatterjee?

  Some people might look at that as a failure.

• 46:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 46:10Rangan Chatterjee?

  Right?

• 46:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 46:11Rangan Chatterjee?

  If someone's listening right now and I think, yeah, well, you won two golds and then you came third. Well, that's not good. That's, that's not what you would be expecting of yourself. Or whatever story they have about you. What would you say to them?

• 46:25Speaker 00

  I say, actually, you're greater because of failure. The more you try, the more you fail. The more also you succeed because you try. Imagine if you try only one, two times, you may win one to two times. But if I try 10 times, I fail five times, I win five times. Who's the winner? I'm winner. I win more than you. So it's like this, you could have a lot of failure, but you also have the chance to win. Look, I tried the six, six distance at the two Olympic. I have three brooms, I have three gold. So, and I also tried so many marathon and I'm already have.

• 47:02Rangan Chatterjee?

  But yeah, it's not, it's not even for me, when I hear that, it's not even just how many golds you've got, right? You could have played it safe and just stuck to your distances. Then you never would have learnt about.

• 47:14Speaker 00

  Anything.

• 47:15Rangan Chatterjee?

  The marathon and that it's a different event, different energy systems. How do you maintain that concentration for 42 kilometres, not just 5K or 10K?

• 47:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 47:25Rangan Chatterjee?

  And then going beyond the gold medals. It's also about life and what do we want our experience of life to be? Because how many new life experiences have you, have you experienced?

• 47:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 47:39Rangan Chatterjee?

  Through challenging yourself. So whether you got gold or not.

• 47:42Speaker 00

  Forget about it, yeah.

• 47:43Rangan Chatterjee?

  Of course, it's important.

• 47:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 47:44Rangan Chatterjee?

  Great. I'm not diminishing it. It's great that you've got the gold medals. But even if you hadn't, you would have learnt so much about yourself, which you wouldn't have learnt.

• 47:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 47:53Rangan Chatterjee?

  Had you played it safe.

• 47:54Speaker 00

  Exactly. That's also like for me is people think it is all about running, right? No, it's not about running. It is also where after I go out of my running career, I can't jump into any business or anything. I will still figure out, I will still way out to make, to solve the problem. I will still have the solution for the problem.

• 48:17Rangan Chatterjee?

  But that's where the confidence comes from, doesn't it? Right? The confidence that you now have even beyond your running career to solve problems. And problems are going to come up in life.

• 48:25Speaker 00

  Of course.

• 48:26Rangan Chatterjee?

  The confidence comes. From taking risks, from going outside your comfort zone. I mean, some people, these things sound like cliches, but they're cliches because they're true, right? This is literally how you learn.

• 48:40Speaker 00

  Exactly. It's normal to have up and down. It's like, if we have perfect life, we don't even enjoy, I think. We don't even enjoy life, I think.

• 48:49Rangan Chatterjee?

  Going back to the 2024 Olympic Marathon, you were telling me how halfway through, you were feeling good despite having done the 5K and the 10K and not much sleep leading up to it. You're feeling good halfway through and you were thinking about making a run, making a break, right?

• 49:08Rangan Chatterjee?

  And you heard some of your competitors talking in Ethiopian, you could hear the language that they were worried or they were thinking about what you're gonna do, right? So you decided, okay, I'm not gonna go. Why did you hearing them focusing on you, why did that lead you to change your decision? Instead of going, why did you hang back then?

• 49:36Rangan Chatterjee?

  Today's episode is sponsored by the daily health drink AG1. The clocks are about to change, the mornings are darker, everyone around you seems to be coming down with something and suddenly that well-being you felt in the summer seems a long time ago. I certainly know that feeling and that's why at this time of year, I remind myself to lean into the fundamentals and one of those fundamentals is AG1. AG1 is a daily health drink that has been in my own life for over eight years. And one of the many things I like about it is the fact that many of the nutrients it contains, for example, vitamin C, vitamin A, zinc and selenium, supports a healthy immune system. Some of the other things I really like about AG1 is that they are committed to continuous

• 50:19Rangan Chatterjee?

  improvement and updating their formula as a scientific research involves. And each batch is independently tested for quality and safety markers, including heavy metals, allergens and banned substances. This is how they can guarantee what's in your scoop and what's not. Right now. AG1 is offering a free AG1 flavour sampler and AGZ sampler to try all the flavours, plus free vitamin D3 and K2 and AG1 Welcome Kit with your first AG1 subscription order. That's $87 in free gifts for first time subscribers.

• 50:58Rangan Chatterjee?

  All you have to do is head to drinkag1.com/livemore to claim this offer before it ends. Today's episode is sponsored by the daily health drink AG1. The clocks are about to change, the mornings are darker, everyone around you seems to be coming down with something and suddenly that wellbeing you felt in the summer seems a long time ago. I certainly know that feeling and that's why at this time of year, I remind myself to lean into the fundamentals and one of those fundamentals is AG1. AG1 is a daily health drink that has been in my own life for over eight years and one of the many things I like about it is the fact that many of the nutrients it contains,

• 51:38Rangan Chatterjee?

  for example, vitamin C, vitamin A, zinc and selenium, supports a healthy immune system. Some of the other things I really like about AG1 is that they are committed to continuous improvement and updating their formula as a scientific research involves. And each batch is independently tested for quality and safety markers, including heavy metals, allergens and banned substances. This is how they can guarantee what's in your scoop and what's not. Right now, AG1 is offering a free AG1 flavour sampler and AGZ sampler to try all the flavours, plus free vitamin D3 and K2 and AG1 Welcome Kit with your first AG1 subscription order.

• 52:23Rangan Chatterjee?

  That's $87 in free gifts for first time subscribers. All you have to do is head to drinkag1.com/livemore to claim this offer before it ends.

• 52:41Speaker 00

  Because when I look at them, I'm like, oh, they worry about me. And I look at the Kenya, they also look at me. I know they are hunting me. They wasn't focused on the race, they're hunting me. I was like, why you have to be just stay there, do the best. And I also tell myself before the race, I will do the best of my race. Just try competing to myself. So that I go back, I said, just, you know, just stay behind, race, just don't make any mistake. Come back, that's really saved me.

• 53:10Rangan Chatterjee?

  So it almost gave you an increased confidence.

• 53:11Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 53:12Rangan Chatterjee?

  You think, oh, they're talking about me, I'm the hunted one now. So, fine, I've got a bit more autonomy here. I can make decisions here. I don't need to push now, let me save it.

• 53:23Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 53:23Rangan Chatterjee?

  In case I need it at the end. And you did need it at the end, of course. It was quite a, how can I put it, quite a robust finish, right? And do you remember that finish? Do you remember what happened when it seemed as though you guys almost touched at one point?

• 53:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly. I was like, so I, I think like around 1K, I wanna go to run next to her.

• 53:43Rangan Chatterjee?

  1K left, so you nearly finished the race.

• 53:45Speaker 00

  And I was like, try to go next to her. I didn't know that she's blocking me, actually. So I was like, I was like, I see her again in front of me. I try here, I see, I thought, oh, she's so fast, I can't match her, couldn't.

• 53:57Rangan Chatterjee?

  You can't match her.

• 53:58Speaker 00

  I thought, I thought, yeah, I can't match her, couldn't. I thought, I didn't know that she's tried to like block me. So I just stayed behind her. And at the time, the time passed, we smashed it. I feel like, I can't tell, I feel like somebody gave me like, wake up, call like some crazy alarm or something. I was like, boom, my head was like, boom.

• 54:20Rangan Chatterjee?

  Because you just exploded.

• 54:21Speaker 00

  Just become like, I shocked, actually.

• 54:25Rangan Chatterjee?

  Were you shocked by how quick you were able to run at the end?

• 54:27Speaker 00

  No, I was shocked when like she smashed, when we smashed each other, I was like, really wake up. And I was like, try to sprint as hard as I can.

• 54:36Rangan Chatterjee?

  Oh, so you think that knock actually helped you?

• 54:38Speaker 00

  I think knock, yeah, helped me a lot.

• 54:39Rangan Chatterjee?

  Wow.

• 54:40Speaker 00

  It's really helped me.

• 54:41Rangan Chatterjee?

  And a question I think a lot of us who are non-elite athletes think about is... You know, you guys, of course, at the top level are competing with each other, right?

• 54:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 54:52Rangan Chatterjee?

  You know, because only one person can get gold, right? Does that affect your relationship with these fellow athletes off the track? Is it hard to be friends with people off the track when part of your job is to try and beat them on the track?

• 55:08Speaker 00

  I, to me, it's most of the time, actually, I don't really have in the track. Like, we talk and, you know, because most of the time, I think, as an athlete, it's better you focus on yourself. Because you can only do, only, you can only control about yourself. But it's good also having competitive, you know, that make actually the sport beautiful, you know?

• 55:30Rangan Chatterjee?

  When you make a record and then someone beats that record, how do you feel?

• 55:36Speaker 00

  I don't really care. It's actually motivate me, like, when Faith break my, my record and everybody so sorry. I was like, no, it's good because I know I can go harder.

• 55:46Rangan Chatterjee?

  What was your mile record?

• 55:48Speaker 00

  It was four twelve.

• 55:49Rangan Chatterjee?

  Four twelve, four minutes and twelve seconds.

• 55:51Speaker 00

  Yes, she broke, I think, like, four seven. And now, I believe, I try, actually, I was, when I tried before, like, before I jump into the marathon, I was like, oh, I can't break that record. Now, actually, Faith make it easy, it's like, I know that's, that's, that's possible. Like, the, the record I break was twenty something years old record.

• 56:09Rangan Chatterjee?

  So you broke a twenty year old record and after you broke it.

• 56:13Speaker 00

  And two years or three, she broke it.

• 56:14Rangan Chatterjee?

  But we see this, don't we? We saw this with Roger Bannister and the four minute mile. He breaks it after, well, he becomes the first human being to run under four minutes. And I think eight people break it in the next two years.

• 56:25Speaker 00

  A minute later, exactly.

• 56:26Rangan Chatterjee?

  Because the mentality has changed. And I think she has just announced that she wants to try and break the four minute mile barrier later this year, I think. Did you hear that?

• 56:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, I hear that. It is very good, like, it's actually, I'm very starting proud of many athletes. Because they're always stuck one place, now they try to, they are taking challenge, you know? That's what I want. Like, especially for, to me, when actually when they broke this, when they broke that, I really wanted to break now. So I, I know it is possible. It's that, I, I'm sure when athlete now they wanna do three even. And go to track and go back to marathon. It is easy because I have done. But if you never see somebody done, it is very hard because you you are taking risk. But they know that I have done, it is easy for them. But I'm so happy like athlete now starting taking challenge, you know. They don't have to, why, why we have to wait somebody try, we don't try ourselves.

• 57:20Rangan Chatterjee?

  I know it's very important to you to inspire women, isn't it? In fact, I I I read a quote from you, which was females will always have challenges. But the challenge is like practicing. It helps you get stronger to become a warrior.

• 57:39Speaker 00

  You know why it's this important? I want actually inspire every everybody. To me, it is because female are generation. If the female is strong, if it's strong mother, if you you're you're a wife or your mother, somebody stronger. The child she produce, the child she feed is going to be stronger. That is a matter of a matter of like when female is strong, the man is also strong. It's not I was focused only the female is strong as man, no, we're different. I'm different, even every man is different. So I don't have to be strong as man, I'm strong in a different way, he's a strong in a different way. He's born differently, I born differently. But I'm equal as human being, I believe that, I believe in equality.

• 58:22Speaker 00

  But I don't believe really that I'm strong as that, no, I'm not strong. But to me, I I wanna motivate human because I wanna motivate all human being. Because female are really generation. If the mother is weak, the child will be weak, whether a boy or the girl, that one. Like if the mother is exercise, the child will exercise. If the mother is good in her head, the child will be good in his head.

• 58:47Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah, I love that message. I think my wife would love it even more, that message.

• 58:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly.

• 58:51Rangan Chatterjee?

  I think she would very much be agreeing going, yes, you're absolutely right.

• 58:57Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah, it's it's interesting idea. I'm again, I I can't speak for Ethiopia or for the Netherlands, but. One thing that we see in the UK, and I think in many other Western countries, certainly the US, I know is the same. I don't know in the Netherlands, that once girls get to their teenage years, their physical activity starts to decline. Okay, so we know that we have a generation of young girls, teenagers, women, who are not moving their bodies as much as would be good from a health perspective. Okay, now, there's many reasons for that. One thing that I know some women feel, and men for that reason, but let's just keep this on women for a minute,

• 59:40Rangan Chatterjee?

  is that they often feel self-conscious about their bodies. They don't like the way that they look, and therefore, that sort of shame or embarrassment stops them from, let's say, going for a run or going to the gym. If there is a lady, or even a teenage girl, listening to us talk right now, who feels a bit embarrassed to go out there and go for a run, she's worried that people are looking at her, she doesn't like the shape of her body, or whatever it might be, what would you say to her?

• 1:00:15Speaker 00

  So I say to her that, you know, the confidence that she does have is because she's not exercise. When people, not exercise, they become, the physical body become weaker. When you are weaker, it doesn't matter how beautiful you are. You can't have confidence, just start exercise. When she becomes strong, her confidence build. Even just being healthy is strong. It's actually what build confidence and look at yourself. And you say, I'm, I'm strong. If your body is strong, you don't even, you don't see that you are, you're not beautiful. You're not looking good. You think you are looking good. You are better because something connect you, you know, your neuro, your brain is connected, oh, you're strong. That's, that's the why female and male are also different.

• 1:00:57Speaker 00

  Like, male is because they born that way, they think, oh. That, I think that's what I'm going to say, they have to exercise. I don't know, especially like, just don't sit behind the computer. They have to exercise, they have to move to have their confidence back.

• 1:01:13Rangan Chatterjee?

  In the 2024 medal ceremony, you wore your headscarf to the ceremony, and it seemed to cause quite a lot of noise on the internet. Was she making a statement? Was she trying to say something and send a message to the world? From your perspective, what actually happened?

• 1:01:37Speaker 00

  To me, to me, it's like, look, OK, I'm no hijabi girl, to be honest. Like a Muslim, according to religion, you have to cover whole body. But I do the hijabi to also send the message, because I have learned from childhood in the Muslim people who wear hijab, they don't have confidence. They think the man is telling them to wear. They think they don't have, they are not smart and they are so weak. So I just wanna the world know. They have, they are very smart people. They are very independent. They are very strong. I just want to say, you could be Muslim and be strong and say whatever you want to be, be like, like in the good manner, be just with a good morality.

• 1:02:21Speaker 00

  You could be Muslim female and have great education, have be sport, be stronger. So that I wanna see, also Muslim is actually, they choose to be Muslim. I choose to be Muslim. Nobody forced me.

• 1:02:36Rangan Chatterjee?

  It's, sounds like you wanted to almost, you know, break down barriers and judgment and go, hey, look, I'm a gold medalist. I just kicked ass in the Olympic marathon and won an incredible sprint out. And I'm also someone who wears a headscarf.

• 1:02:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:02:53Rangan Chatterjee?

  To sort of break down that judgment, which of course, there's a lot of judgment and discrimination in the world. Very empowering message you were trying to put out there.

• 1:03:02Speaker 00

  Yes, yes.

• 1:03:03Rangan Chatterjee?

  Did you get much, much pushback and much negativity? Or do you not even take? Take any attention of that kind of stuff?

• 1:03:09Speaker 00

  I really get any attention. What do because for to me, both of them, I don't take attention. Because if you also search for positive, one day they're gonna crush you. If you also search for negative, it's both of them, it's not necessary. It's good that people say it's great, but it's good. If you wanna be greatest, don't don't insert for any attention. Don't search for the bad, don't search for good also. You will be greater because you just feel you just do what is right, what is good for you. Other way, it's like the one in your head, people will decide for your life. It's good to also talk with people, you know, choose what is good and talk be open minded, also flexible, but it just it's there's no necessary to to search for both attention.

• 1:03:52Speaker 00

  Do not like I'm gonna say especially the kids, don't search for anything to be greater.

• 1:03:56Rangan Chatterjee?

  I completely agree. If you let the good go to your head, the negativity is gonna bring you down as well.

• 1:04:01Speaker 00

  The one who put you up gonna put you also down.

• 1:04:03Rangan Chatterjee?

  Exactly, like you said before, without sad, there's no happy.

• 1:04:06Speaker 00

  No, that no, yeah.

• 1:04:07Rangan Chatterjee?

  Right, it's the balance of life.

• 1:04:08Speaker 00

  We are success that are no failure, we are failure that is no success also.

• 1:04:12Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:12Speaker 00

  So that is what I say. And and then, yeah, exactly, this what I just wanna show the in the world like they they they deserve.

• 1:04:22Rangan Chatterjee?

  You seem to have a lot of um mature life wisdom, right? That often we don't associate with people until they get quite a bit older. And I'm interested to know, do you think that comes largely from your upbringing? The fact that you've had to move countries and get used to different cultures and different ways of living? Or do you think it's come through your athletic journey and running? Or is it everything?

• 1:04:53Speaker 00

  No, I think to me is like, believe me, you will be intelligent if you travel around. I wasn't born that way, I have not tell you genetically I'm this. Now it comes, I don't also tell you from athlete background because I know many athlete. Yesterday, somebody asking me, you try every tune to be good. Where it come from? Because I didn't see many Ethiopian do that in running. I say because I travel around, see this as a young move to this country, move to that. It just open up your mind, where you get actually free school. Like we have to go to school as child, this is also great school actually. It just I think just great school, great university, you can call it great university.

• 1:05:34Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah. I think travel is amazing.

• 1:05:36Speaker 00

  It's amazing.

• 1:05:37Rangan Chatterjee?

  Because it shakes you out of your belief system.

• 1:05:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:05:42Rangan Chatterjee?

  You think the world is a certain way. And you travel, you're like, oh, oh, there's another way to operate in the world. There's another belief system.

• 1:05:51Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 1:05:51Rangan Chatterjee?

  There's other ways that people live in harmony with completely different beliefs to me.

• 1:05:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:05:56Rangan Chatterjee?

  And I really do believe that, of course, not everyone can travel, but more travel, I think would really make the world a lot happier and there'd be less discrimination.

• 1:06:07Speaker 00

  Exactly, because you see, like now, when I talk to people, I know when I talk to in Ethiopia, people in Netherlands, in America, I have totally different opinion than the person because I see differently, because I live in Netherlands, I live in Ethiopia. This time, you know, I went to Kenya for three months. It made me actually, I want to learn in Kenya, I want to learn about Kenya culture in university or something, it look like. I feel actually part of, like, oh, they're Africa, they're like my home, they think this way, this is the way they did it, that's it.

• 1:06:40Rangan Chatterjee?

  It's that curiosity that sort of seems to permeate everything you do.

• 1:06:44Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 1:06:45Rangan Chatterjee?

  Right, that curiosity, what's possible, what can I learn here? What's the language you grew up speaking in Ethiopia?

• 1:06:53Speaker 00

  I speak, they call Oromo language, that one of, I think, maybe half, half done. People speak, fifteen percent of people, they speak the language in Kenya also, because in the border, many, many people, even they are Kenya, they speak the Oromo language.

• 1:07:07Rangan Chatterjee?

  Did you also grow up speaking English?

• 1:07:10Speaker 00

  No, I just learn.

• 1:07:12Rangan Chatterjee?

  Okay, this is interesting, so you, so, sorry, what, the language is called Oromo?

• 1:07:15Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:07:16Rangan Chatterjee?

  So you grew up speaking that language?

• 1:07:18Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:07:18Rangan Chatterjee?

  Then you are a refugee to the Netherlands?

• 1:07:21Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:07:22Rangan Chatterjee?

  And you didn't speak Dutch at the time? So you had to learn Dutch?

• 1:07:27Speaker 00

  I have to learn Dutch. I really don't speak that much English, I just know from school because you just have one language, one, one subject. So when I come to Netherlands, I made it like in three weeks, I was in the Netherlands, everybody speak English. I learned quicker English than Netherlands.

• 1:07:42Rangan Chatterjee?

  You learn English in Netherlands?

• 1:07:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, because Netherlands language is very tough. So I was, what they did, actually did help me, I was become lazy to learn the Dutch because I was already uncomfortable, so I'm like, I have to suffer with this language when I'm speaking English.

• 1:07:58Rangan Chatterjee?

  So but then you did learn Dutch.

• 1:07:59Speaker 00

  I did learn and sadly after a couple, I think after three years, I moved to Dutch coach. I start learning in Netherlands. I was also ten months of no, this is really bad when I stick of speaking that and then the TV. And what I like also about Dutch, they like when you speak that that language which right. So I was like, OK, I have to become better.

• 1:08:22Rangan Chatterjee?

  Um, just before we came into record, I had the pleasure of meeting your coach, Tim.

• 1:08:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:08:28Rangan Chatterjee?

  And I've been reading quite a lot about your coach recently. And one of the things I came across was um, on your way to the twenty twenty three London Marathon. Again, this marathon that um, you'd never done before. He basically shared in an interview that, I think you said it as well, that quite soon before the marathon, you were thinking of even pulling out. But I think your team had said, look, London have just announced it, it won't be good for their marketing. So you didn't want to let down the the marketing of the event. So you go, oh, I'm gonna do it.

• 1:09:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:09:02Rangan Chatterjee?

  Even in the coach, I think on the way to the start line, you were thinking about pulling out, should I really be doing this? And he he he mentioned that you guys made a bet that I think he proposed to you that if you win, I'll give up sugar until the end of the year, but you came back with a higher bet, didn't you?

• 1:09:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly. I thought we're joking because he's uh, very addicted to sugar before. And now it's like a joke, OK, if I win, you're not gonna eat until Paris. Oh, I'm like, that was one years, um, a couple of months, I think. He's like, OK, OK, deal. And we just make us a joke and sadly I thought, no, I never thought I'm gonna win. I ended up winning. Tim was really struggling. He he really give up.

• 1:09:45Rangan Chatterjee?

  He gave up sugar for fourteen months.

• 1:09:47Speaker 00

  He really, really give up.

• 1:09:49Rangan Chatterjee?

  Very few of us in life can succeed by ourselves. How important is your relationship with your coach, Tim?

• 1:09:58Speaker 00

  It is very good. Tim is actually, he's also very curious. I used to, now, Tim is, actually, when I say, when I come up with something, he never say it's impossible. He's very curious, also, he's like, he's also risk taker. He think, yeah, it's possible. Everything he say, yeah, why not, you know? Is that that make really easy for me? That is also, so when I come out with three event, he's actually the one of, I, I announced like a month before I'm gonna do three event, he's the one of really supportive, that I think you need as an athlete, you coach have to be one of the greatest support, like, although you're gonna be, as a coach,

• 1:10:38Speaker 00

  like, you are actually coaching athlete, it's big team, like, it's one, two brain work as one. If you feel like your coaches doesn't really support you, whatever your decision make, you are down. It's like, so I say, when athlete being curious, they have to choose that their coaches, the one who support them.

• 1:10:56Rangan Chatterjee?

  I heard an interview with your coach, Tim, with a friend of mine, Floris, from the Extra Milest podcast. And I think Floris asked him about advice for coaches. And he said many things, but one of the things he said, I really, really loved. He said, never ever joke negatively with your athletes. And I didn't really like that. I thought it is, yes, it's important for athletes, but even in a marriage, in a relationship with your children, like, never joke about something negative. And I thought that was a really insightful piece of advice.

• 1:11:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think it's, well, he's, he's very smart, by the way, because it's true. Because so athlete and coach are so close, as even our brain have a lot of, to myself, I have a lot of negative things in coming to when I make decision. Then that come to the athlete also make, yeah, maybe true, maybe she's or he better, maybe I can't do, you know? That you know this value, it is very important also to know.

• 1:11:59Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah, I think it also resonate with me because I was chatting to my kids recently about this. This is before I heard that interview with Tim. And one of them made a joke, just a stupid joke, but I said, hey, listen, even if your sibling believes 1% of that, right, even though you meant it as a joke.

• 1:12:18Rangan Chatterjee?

  That can have implications for that person later on.

• 1:12:20Speaker 00

  It's true.

• 1:12:21Rangan Chatterjee?

  Right? Do not joke negatively.

• 1:12:23Speaker 00

  It's true.

• 1:12:24Rangan Chatterjee?

  You know, find something else to joke about, but not about someone's weakness or what you perceive as a weakness.

• 1:12:29Speaker 00

  It's true, no.

• 1:12:30Rangan Chatterjee?

  And then it, just hearing that made me think, God, he really must be a wonderful coach.

• 1:12:34Speaker 00

  No, it's, he's really, he's great. No, it's really true also because like, especially with the children, the parents are role model. If you joke about it, they really take serious. They say, they may say they are laughing, but in their head, when they come, like, maybe that's true, you know? When the, when the time, the difficulty time, they don't search for solution. They say, maybe, maybe I'm stupid. Like, if you have child, like girl child, if you talk about how strong female is, how they succeed, they will wanna become like that success. If you always tell about, ah, the story, how, wow, amazing, she did amazing thing. Because I know as a child, I hear, like, my mom was talk, when some female did amazing thing, she always like, wow,

• 1:13:19Speaker 00

  this what amazing thing she did. I was like, oh, I wanna become, I wanna be like that person. So she, people can't say, so that's what, as a child, you just wanna, you don't know anything, you just take it.

• 1:13:30Rangan Chatterjee?

  So Van, you've experienced many different challenges in your life up to this point. What would you say is the hardest thing you've ever done?

• 1:13:43Speaker 00

  Ah, the hardest things is, I have done is, it was the hard when I move from Netherlands to US. Like when I was like, I already know, oh, I'm safe, I'm success, I've get to survive, I have enough money, but I may lose everything. And I have to go back to school, educate and have, again, a job. So that's the hardest thing, what like, you know? Right now, I'm in good position. If I could keep this going, keep for five, six years, I could own something, I could survive. And, but I say, oh, I'm gonna choose to go to that. And it could be ended up, things go different way.

• 1:14:27Speaker 00

  And I was like, okay, I just, I choose, okay, if thing doesn't work, I do try three, four years. I go to, I go to school and go back to school, have my diploma or degree, and then I go to work. That's the hardest thing. The other hardest things is when I decide Tokyo.

• 1:14:46Speaker 00

  Olympics to do three event when I was have any Olympic medal.

• 1:14:53Rangan Chatterjee?

  Wow.

• 1:14:55Rangan Chatterjee?

  And each of those hard things that you did or put yourself forward for for you has paid dividends. But for some people, they don't always. Sometimes they try and do something hard and it doesn't pay off.

• 1:15:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, it doesn't pay off. I had also really hard years in two thousand twenty two. It didn't pay off. This is I was really struggling. But it's not not always, but keep working, never give up.

• 1:15:21Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:24Rangan Chatterjee?

  Many people who listen to this show, Stefan, really enjoy something called Park Run, which is a weekly five K run every Saturday morning that people do in community and in groups. Okay. You are an elite athlete, one of the world's best female runners.

• 1:15:44Rangan Chatterjee?

  I've got two running questions for you, okay. For someone who is not a runner, but wants to build up to running five K. What is your advice for them? And for someone who already runs a five K regularly, but wants to get a PB, a personal best in two thousand twenty five. What advice would you have for them?

• 1:16:09Speaker 00

  So the the the fastest advice what I give it not only five K, every runner. Many runner, they run, they don't do gym. They have to. Gym is one of important for your life. You have they have to lift, they have to do heavy lift. Even the people who's older, when they become sixty, fifty, sixty five, whatever, they have to do lift. That's very important. Don't only run. Because number one, you're going to avoid the injury. Number two, you born less than you're going to be stronger. Number three, what I say for the younger girl, you're going to become stronger and confident. If you're going to improve your your PB, you're going to look at yourself. If you feel strong and you're going to run also the fastest. So then then don't forget your core, don't forget the gym, heavy lift, everything.

• 1:16:54Speaker 00

  I do a lot of lift. The thing, why you don't? Big, big, because you cannot get bigger. You, you, your body adapted to what you more do. If you do the gym every day five hour, yes, you're gonna be. If you do two times gym, one hour heavy lift, you're not gonna be. You just become stronger and you also become have more growth hormone. That mean you are actually more fit. Number two, also don't avoid speed. When you do speed, you, uh, you make your right, right and left.

• 1:17:24Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah. Ventricles in your heart, yeah.

• 1:17:27Speaker 00

  You make one stronger when you do longer, longer distance. I think you'd make your right, your left vertebrae stronger. So it is good for your heart also to do longer, also to do sprint. And also when you did like, that's the way, if you do like long run. I don't know, some people do twenty minute long run, some people do four to five, some people do ninety minute and do that. The other also don't only run, do sometimes biking, go to pool. That's how you're gonna run PB, because our brain love to play.

• 1:17:57Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:58Speaker 00

  They don't like to do one thing, they get bored, maybe they're gonna go good at it, but you're not gonna improve. But if you they do something, number one, they're gonna enjoy ride, they enjoy sport. The other also, they just gonna improve also. So whatever, if you run, but also editing, if you have pool, add you pool also either way. I don't know, do core or gym and that you're gonna run PB.

• 1:18:18Rangan Chatterjee?

  Love it. You're someone who smiles a lot, even when you're taking on a really difficult challenge. What does the word happiness mean to you?

• 1:18:31Speaker 00

  Number one, why I smile, I learn, I learn after this sadness, gonna be something great coming. Like what I learning, like it's, it's not gonna stay there. The, the depressed, yesterday I was like, okay, I may sad, I didn't win, you know? But I know the day will come, when I win, actually gonna have more happiness. So that I'm thinking like, okay, actually, you know, my most of goal had made it when I lost, not win and win. When I lost, I made a really great goal, a crazy goal, I don't know why.

• 1:19:02Rangan Chatterjee?

  Wow.

• 1:19:03Speaker 00

  I know I'm not gonna be always happy, I will sometimes depress, sometimes angry, sometimes sad.

• 1:19:08Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah, the full breadth of experience, like, um, long, slow runs and short, fast runs. Happiness, sadness, anger, calm, you know, it's good to experience everything, right?

• 1:19:20Speaker 00

  Exactly, yeah.

• 1:19:20Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah, it's, uh, it's, it's incredible. You know, talking to you is just so inspiring. I can see why so many people around the world truly love you, right? And feel connected to you and feel that when they watch you run or speak, that they feel that they can do better things in their own life, right? And I'm pretty sure after today's conversation, a lot of people will also feel inspired by your curiosity, your playfulness, your, I guess your directness as well, you know? You don't sort of hide your words, you tell it as you see it, which I find, and I think many people find really, really inspiring.

• 1:20:05Rangan Chatterjee?

  There's a lot of people around the world who feel as though they're in a dark place. Okay, they can't see the light at the end of the tunnel. You're someone who has also been in those dark places before.

• 1:20:17Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 1:20:19Rangan Chatterjee?

  To finish off this conversation, for that person who's watching right now, who does feel that their life is not going in the way that they want it to go, and that they cannot see light at the end of the tunnel, what would your final words to them be?

• 1:20:35Speaker 00

  If you look at me, the people who even, if the person who watch, who knows even, or maybe he never said, now he's Googling, look at, look at it. He said, oh wow, what he done is great. Believe me, whatever you feel inside you, I feel the same. Even now, I think the things is not going my, the way I want. Eh, I'm angry, I'm sad, I'm happy. So even the girl you think, the woman you think is success, feeling the same as you feel. Maybe the people, the success people, they don't say, they're actually the, the one who fail more. Because when they success also, you want more success, more success. They think doesn't go the way they want. Maybe, maybe couple thing, they try, they try, they try.

• 1:21:20Speaker 00

  Maybe three, four thing go the way they want. Maybe twenty thing doesn't go the way they want. You only see the one success thing. So think it, whatever you think about it, whatever you have in it, I have it, I experience. Even now, I wanna win yesterday, I didn't win. Because I already have great name, they say he's winner, she's here, she's that. I wanna do that, but it didn't happen. You think I did angry, angry. I was like angry myself, wanna sleep, but that's human being. That's all, we are the same, believe me, what does nobody is special. This is, it's just matter of experience. Matter of the trying, just keep going. So believe in that, that's what I say.

• 1:22:05Rangan Chatterjee?

  Stefan, you're an incredible human being. You're inspiring millions of people around the world. Thank you for making some time to come on my show.

• 1:22:13Speaker 00

  Thank you so much. Thank you.

• 1:22:20Rangan Chatterjee?

  Really hope you enjoyed that conversation. Do think about one thing that you can take away and apply into your own life. And also have a think about one thing from this conversation that you can teach to somebody else. Remember when you teach someone, it not only helps them, it also helps you learn and retain the information. Now, before you go, just wanted to let you know about Friday Five. It's my free weekly email containing five simple ideas to improve your health and happiness. In that email, I share exclusive insights that I do not share anywhere else, including health advice, how to manage your time better, interesting articles or videos that I've been consuming, and quotes that have caused me to stop and reflect.

• 1:23:05Rangan Chatterjee?

  And I have to say, in a world of endless emails, it really is delightful that many of you tell me it is one of the only weekly emails that you actively look forward to receiving. So if that sounds like something you would like to receive each and every Friday. You can sign up for free at drchatage.com/friday5. Now, if you are new to my podcast, you may be interested to know that I have written five books that have been bestsellers all over the world, covering all kinds of different topics: happiness, food, stress, sleep, behaviour change and movement, weight loss and so much more. So please do take a moment to check them out. They are all available as

• 1:23:46Rangan Chatterjee?

  paperbacks, ebooks and as audiobooks, which I am narrating. If you enjoyed today's episode, it is always appreciated if you can take a moment to share the podcast with your friends and family or leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Thank you so much for listening. Have a wonderful week. And please note that if you want to listen to this show without any adverts at all, that option is now available for a small monthly fee on Apple and on Android. All you have to do is click the link in the episode notes in your podcast app. And always remember, you are the architect of your

• 1:24:24Rangan Chatterjee?

  own health. Making lifestyle change is always worth it, because when you feel better, you live more.