Louise Redknapp: “I don’t feel good enough” Coping with loneliness and low self-esteem

Is it a compliment to be called ‘nice’? Singer Louise Redknapp isn’t so sure. She’s always been the good girl, but she’s ready to embrace – and express – different facets of her character now. In this chat with Fearne, Louise explains that being in a 90s girlband, and being married to a sports star, forced her to be shiny and polished at all times. That led to a crippling fear about saying or doing the wrong thing, but she’s learning to trust her own gut instinct. Fearne and Louise chat about how never knowing her dad, and becoming a mother herself, have impacted her confidence and identity. Plus, can gratitude combat overwhelm? Louise's fifth studio album, Confessions, will be released on May 23rd. If you liked this episode of Happy Place, you might also like: Anastacia https://pod.fo/e/221008 Shania Twain https://pod.fo/e/163397 Naomi Watts https://pod.fo/e/2a7df4 Child on the line is a three-part documentary podcast series celebrating the Volunteer Counsellors of Childline, and the brave children & young people who contact the helpline service. Listen here: https://www.childonthelinepodcast.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Hi, I'm Natalie Dormer and I'm proud to be an ambassador for Childline. This year, Childline turns 40. To mark it, I've made Child on the Line, a three-part documentary podcast. We hear why children needed a helpline in 1986, how it was built against the odds and the challenges children face today, from abuse and mental health to social media and AI. Search Child on the Line and listen wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:28Fearne Cotton?

  Hello and massive welcome to Happy Place with me, Fern Cotton. This is the show that reminds you to trust your gut. Today, I'm chatting to Louise Redknapp.

• 0:39Speaker 02

  I'm not an asshole, so am I a nice person to work with or to, am I a good mate? Am I there for you 100%? But the bits that I feel have always gone unnoticed is my ambition, my drive to keep on bettering myself and doing well, to get up every time the chips have been down. And believe you me, over the last few years, I have taken a full whack of abuse. I could have just carried on, been in the corner and I was like, I'm just not going to stand for this. I am going to carry on doing what I love. I just want to carry on growing.

• 1:11Fearne Cotton?

  Right, spring is on the way. The blossom in my tree in my garden is sprout, is it sprouting? Is that what blossoms, does it sprout? Does it blossom? It's blossomed. And not only that, this is big news, guys, get ready. George the Tortoise is out of hibernation. He's out. So George is now, we think he's 56. So I don't have to hibernate him, he hibernates himself. I just put a big bag of soil in the garden and then he burrows under it. Someone's now going to give me shit, an email going, that's not the appropriate way. I was told by the previous owners, that's what he does, so I'm just going with before you email, don't waste your time, don't email me, okay? Full stop. He goes into the big man of soil and then whenever he fancies it, he just pops out. So last weekend, George is just roaming around the garden. It was great excitement.

• 1:55Fearne Cotton?

  Me and the kids were absolutely freaking out. We have warmed him up in the house. He has had his first few meals of lettuce and kale and he's done his first shit. And let me tell you, after not shitting for four months, crikey. The cleanup operation was immense, but we are all overjoyed because we miss George when he's hibernating. Not only that, it's spring. I think when George comes out, we can officially say, he's out, out, guys. It's spring. So I hope you're feeling springy and sprung. And if you've not done a shit for four months, then you've done one too. Um, so, okay, let's talk about Louise. I'm not going to try and create some sort of tenuous link. There's no point. I've been a fan of Louise since the Eternal Girl Band days, and now she is

• 2:38Fearne Cotton?

  back with new music. Confessions is the name of the album, and it's out in May. This chat was the chat that I needed. We talked about all sorts of things. We chatted about gratitude, and not in like a wishy-washy sense of just like, I'm so grateful, but in a way that it can really get you out of a dark place. We talk also about the reality of being in a band in the 90s, which was brutal. And that might sound dramatic or disproportionate. It's not. It was brutal. You did not get days off. Also loneliness. Louise experienced so much loneliness in those girl band days, and she's pretty upfront talking about it. So that's a really important bit. And also, talking about those big, big lows that we

• 3:17Fearne Cotton?

  fall into after huge life moments. Namely divorce. That was a big one. So we cover all of this. Also, losing confidence, identity. There's a hell of a lot in this chat.

• 3:31Speaker 03

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• 4:01Speaker 04

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• 4:50Fearne Cotton?

  Right, okay, to our gorgeous conversation in a hot little second, but first, some very exciting news about this year's Happy Place Festival, which we are thrilled about. London, we're going to be back with you on the 12th and 13th of July, but, but, but, but, but here's the big news: our new London home is going to be at the completely stunning Gunnersbury Park. There are loads of super easy public transport options, so you can breeze on in and start your magical day of meditation and breathwork and live podcast and shopping divine. Cheshire friends, your Happy Place Festival is staying exactly where it's always been, at the beautiful Tatten Park. We'll be with you on the 30th and 31st of August. So, I cannot wait to meet you

• 5:32Fearne Cotton?

  at Gunnersbury Park in July and Tatten Park in August. You can sign up for early access to tickets right now. Just head to happyplacefestival.com. All right, let's do it. Here's the show.

• 6:05Fearne Cotton?

  Hello Louise.

• 6:06Speaker 02

  Hey.

• 6:07Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, the funny thing is, it's the second time I've seen you today.

• 6:09Speaker 02

  I know.

• 6:10Fearne Cotton?

  I interviewed you 10 minutes ago for the radio.

• 6:12Speaker 02

  I know.

• 6:13Fearne Cotton?

  It's ridiculous.

• 6:14Speaker 02

  No, this is different though, this one, right?

• 6:16Fearne Cotton?

  Different energy.

• 6:16Speaker 02

  Different energy.

• 6:17Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, we were talking about 90s nonsense and fun, but we'll cover some of that. But I think there's just so much I want to talk to you about today. I mean, first of all, obviously, you're out and about, you've got your new album out at the moment.

• 6:27Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 6:27Fearne Cotton?

  It's got some big dance energy on there. Is that where your head's at? Where are you at mentally?

• 6:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, I wanted to make something upbeat. I always feel that if you're a woman and you write anything that's kind of really, you know, melancholy or like just anything that's too laid back and slow, people kind of really read into everything and as, why, when. But that wasn't really my main reason for doing it upbeat. I actually just wanted an album of bops. Like, so lyrically, it's very deep. I'd say the deepest album I've ever written, actually, by a million miles. But I think sense-wise and beat-wise, it's definitely like much danceier than what I've ever done before.

• 7:06Fearne Cotton?

  There's a song on there called Manifest- Manifesting? Manifesting?

• 7:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:10Fearne Cotton?

  How do you feel about manifesting? What's your take on it?

• 7:13Speaker 02

  Okay, so I think I'm quite a spiritual person as far as, you know, I do believe in the universe and all of those things and putting things in your path and things happening for a reason. But it's really easy to lose sight of that when you're going either through a tough time or, I don't know, just it's, I'm not great at kind of meditating and things like that. I really need to make more time and space for that.

• 7:36Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, I don't, yeah.

• 7:37Speaker 02

  I'm just not good at that kind of thing. Like, I'm more likely to go and jet spray the tiles outside.

• 7:42Fearne Cotton?

  That is meditating. I'm the same. I need to be doing a thing.

• 7:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm better off, I'm doing something, cleaning the wardrobe out or just doing something. But manifesting, yeah, lyrically, it's quite cheeky. It's just about... Manifesting your ideal man in a club somewhere, but in a way of sort of what makes you tick, what it is about that person's energy that you like, so.

• 8:04Fearne Cotton?

  The tricky thing I think with manifesting, and we've talked about it a fair bit on the podcast, because I, I love it. I think we've got an episode coming up shortly by someone called Estelle Bingham, and we go really heavy on into sort of how manifesting works, what it is and what it isn't. And I get tripped up quite often when things aren't going to plan with thinking, this is all my fault. I must be in such a negative headspace. I'm attracting all of this negative stuff in. And then you end up beating yourself up and feeling like shit. That surely can't be the point of it. So it is, it's a tricky one, but I think a fascinating concept nonetheless.

• 8:37Speaker 02

  I think I went through a stage of being thankful and manifesting in that way. You know, like when you feel your chips are down a little bit and you're like, oh God, am I ever going to get out of this sort of like dark hole that I'm currently in? Rather than sort of wallowing in that, I started thinking, right, I'm going to like just be really thankful for what I do have. So I would get up every morning. And I found this really difficult because mornings are my worst time.

• 9:01Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, they're my favourite. I'm obsessed. I hate the evenings.

• 9:05Speaker 02

  Okay, so mornings for me is when the panic sets in. You know, when you first open your eyes, you're like, is everything going to be all right? You know, whatever is going on in your life, whether you've got a record out, whether you're filming, whatever it is, the kids, is it going to be all right? So that first sort of 10 minutes of the morning, I'm like, can I cope with any of this? And then as the day goes on, I start going, okay. So I thought, right, rather than focusing on can I cope first thing in the morning, I'm going to be like, I am so lucky. And actually, I don't know if it was subconscious that I was coming on here today. And maybe I was just in a slightly different headspace. But I woke up this morning and was like, you know, I'm so grateful that I'm living in my house with my boys and I've got my dog at the bottom of the bed and, and I, I just

• 9:49Speaker 02

  really, I've just made an album. I'm so proud of. I was coming here. I was like, just focus on those things. I think in a weird way, that's my manifesting, like trying to just keep on looking at the positives.

• 10:02Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, it's no bad thing to do. I think it's a really healthy way to. Sort of help create that abundance is notice what even when things are really shit and we've all been through terribly shit things. Finding those little glimmers or those base level things that you can be grateful for is so, so important.

• 10:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:19Fearne Cotton?

  It seems like you're in a really interesting time in your life and I think, you know, we are women of a certain age and we are experiencing life in new ways and taking hopefully learned experience with us to build our confidence or help us have more clarity about things. And it was really interesting. I read your autobiography before today. And there's some really interesting stuff in there about how previously, and I imagine this is like twenties, thirties.

• 10:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:49Fearne Cotton?

  You wanted to show I'm this perfect wife with the perfect life and I need to show this and portray that version of myself. It definitely seems like you've lost that and you're not bothered about putting that out there or putting any image out there that isn't who you are, how you're feeling.

• 11:05Speaker 02

  I think part of that came from the early days of the music industry where everything was so polished, where now to write a an authentic song is the only chance you've got of having a hit. Something needs to come from within for people to grasp something about what you're saying. I think back then, as long as it was all shiny and polished, then that was your, your bigger chance of being, you know, charting, being out there, being everything everyone else wanted you to be. So I think part of that sort of being the perfect wife, the perfect mum thing, actually just come from a roll on of that. And then sort of being in somebody else's media career as well, like obviously being married to a sportsman where everything

• 11:48Speaker 02

  then needs to look all shiny and perfect and new. And so I just think it's so easy to fall into putting the pressure on yourself to be as perfect as you can be at all times. I do feel like we live in a different time now. I feel like people are so honest, which I love because it makes you feel better about yourself and not in a way where you want to see other people have a bad time or go through similar stuff, but it just makes you feel more human and it makes you feel more accepted and actually. Whatever you're going through in life, when other people are talking about the same things, whether it's, you know, somebody you least expect it to come out and say, I suffer really bad with anxiety. Like, I'm like, oh my god.

• 12:30Speaker 02

  It's not just me, cause I thought, I, I, I'm such an anxious person. And people would often say to me, god, I don't see any of that in you. And I'm like, inside, I'm like pedaling.

• 12:42Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 12:42Speaker 02

  Like you wouldn't believe. And when you hear other people coming out and saying that, it just puts you into a headspace of, okay, this is normal.

• 12:49Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 12:50Speaker 02

  It's all right.

• 12:51Fearne Cotton?

  I think otherwise you do look around and go, oh my god, what is wrong with me? Why am I the only person here not coping?

• 12:56Speaker 02

  And I'm so lucky, right?

• 12:57Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, so lucky. And I'm still feeling like shit. What's wrong with me?

• 13:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:02Fearne Cotton?

  It's the worst. But I think you're so right. When other people come out and they storytell, or they wanna

• 13:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:07Fearne Cotton?

  share, you know, extract from their experience, you're like, oh my god, thank god.

• 13:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:11Fearne Cotton?

  Other people are going through it. And actually, I think it takes you opening up often for even friends around you to go, oh my god, me too. I didn't know you were going through this. Cause it's so, you, you have to get into quite a vulnerable space to admit this stuff and to feel safe doing it.

• 13:25Speaker 02

  I think I've always touched on it in the last, sort of the album before last, um, Heavy Love, which was sort of, sort of coming out of a bit of a bad time. I think I touched on trying to be open and honest. But then I think I sort of rewound a little bit and looked at every word and every lyric, the same with the book, and was so concerned of how it could be misunderstood, misrepresented in the press, or what people might think of it, or the judgment that might come from it, that I ended up kind of backpedaling a little bit and trying to change things. Um, and I suppose so much of my storytelling is through music. And I think most probably for the first time on this album, I didn't backpedal once.

• 14:05Speaker 02

  I didn't even question a lyric or a line. I thought, oh, could people read into that wrongly? Does that sound bad for this? And, you know, maybe I shouldn't say that, which has been my whole life. Like, that has been my whole life. Should I not have said that? Should I not have warned that? Should I not have behaved in that way? This is the first time, God knows what's gonna happen, Fern, that I've gone, you know what? That's how I felt.

• 14:31Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, this is the new era of Louise. I'm so here for it because I think so. I mean, me and some of my teammates were just talking before you turned up about this notion of being the good girl.

• 14:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:43Fearne Cotton?

  And the pressure that we put on ourselves that we have to make all of these decisions so that people view us as being good. And actually, what does that boil down to when you reduce it down to its bare bones? It's good, I think we equate to being compliant and just going, this is what everybody else needs or wants me to do and therefore I'm not gonna rock the boat. And I mean, in the book, you talk, you do touch on this because you say people have historically described you as nice. I mean, I can clarify, I've met you a million times and you are the loveliest person, but actually, is that enough? Like, do you feel represented by simply being called nice?

• 15:21Speaker 02

  I don't look at that as something that makes me happy. I look at that and I think, actually, if you know me, yeah, I'm not an asshole. Like, in our industry, I'm always polite to people. I don't believe you can be doing it for as long as we've done it if you're not a good person, if you're not easy to work with. There's always someone chomping at the bit to take your place. So, am I a nice person to work with or to, am I a good mate? Am I there for you hundred percent? But the bits that I feel have always gone unnoticed is my ambition, my drive to keep on bettering myself and doing well, to get up every time the chips have been down. And believe you me, over the last few years, I have taken a full whack of abuse.

• 16:03Speaker 02

  But you know what? I could have just carried on, sort of been in the corner and I was like, I'm just not gonna stand for this. I am gonna carry on doing what I love. And that might hit me in the face, I don't know, but I am gonna keep on going, you know, and be unapologetic for, actually, this is what I love to do and this is what I've spent thirty years doing and I. I just wanna carry on growing.

• 16:26Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 16:27Speaker 02

  Whether that be as an artist, a mum, a woman, a partner, you know, whatever that that may be, I just wanna keep on learning from everything, being a better person and yeah, just enjoying it to the max as much as I can.

• 16:41Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I mean, you're so right, cause it's no one human is one thing, and I think using the word nice is so reductive in terms of like, look at all the complexities that make up this human and who they are, rather than, oh, she's nice and that just being the passing comment and not looking beneath at everything that's not only gotten you to where you're at, but also is driving you forward. And I think, again, reading, I didn't know so much about your earlier years, but that sort of resilience that seems completely embedded in who you are. And I'm sure a lot of that comes from your mum, who, I didn't know this until I read your book, she had you at twenty three. You were living in a mum and baby home for the first year of your life.

• 17:21Fearne Cotton?

  You know, that's not easy stuff. And I'm sure you can look back at your mum and your relationship as mum and daughter at that time and think, fucking hell, how did she get through all that?

• 17:30Speaker 02

  I mean, first of all, I think the nice comment, I think I've played a part in that, because I think, I always remember an interviewer saying to me once that when they interview me, I say so much but say nothing. So I think just so guarded, so kind of.

• 17:45Fearne Cotton?

  That's protection, isn't it? You're protecting yourself.

• 17:47Speaker 02

  I think I just give them what I feel they need to have and I don't actually really let people in. I think I'm like that actually in life with people as well. With getting to know new people, it just takes me a while. But yeah, seeing my mum, um, my mum fought for everything, like single parent, really young, mother and baby home, I didn't know my dad. So those early years were purely about fighting for everything, like we had nothing. And I saw her always manage to do her best for me, you know, whether it be my singing and dancing class. I mean, she took me to elocution lessons.

• 18:22Fearne Cotton?

  What a legend.

• 18:23Speaker 02

  What was, yeah, I mean, I lived in Lewisham and she's taken me to the town hall to do elocution lessons, cause she just said, I want you to grow up being able to converse and be confident in who you're talking to. So I owe her a great deal, actually, like I really do, cause I think she could have so easily have just let me just ponder into anything, but it was really her.

• 18:47Speaker 02

  Selflessness of financially putting whatever she could have into me and kind of just giving me opportunities.

• 18:55Fearne Cotton?

  And it's so interesting how almost by osmosis, you're you're picking up all of that stuff as a kid, like my mum doesn't give up, my mum always tries to look for a new path or my mum will never take no for an answer. And she's not imagining even saying this stuff to you, but it's just you're seeing it and then that becomes, you know, that informs who you are as a person.

• 19:15Speaker 02

  Whatever I needed, you know, when I wanted to go to stage school and by the time my mum then had met my stepdad and they were like, there was just no way we could even afford to get you there, let alone pay for the fees. And I went for an ILEA scholarship with a backing track from Gloria Gaynor, like, because I had no sheet music, I wasn't doing those type of lessons. I literally went up there with one pair of shoes and a backing track of I Will Survive by Gloria Gaynor. And remember sitting in the room thinking, oh, what am I doing here? Everyone had like their three pairs of point shoes and tap shoes and shiny jazz shoes and I had trainers and a backing track. But you

• 19:58Speaker 02

  know what? There must have just been something that just carried on fighting and that was her. She sat outside and waited for me. She got the money for the train fare to get up to the Barbican. She sent me in there and she's like, just go be yourself. And yeah, I mean, I was lucky to get the scholarship and that changed my life.

• 20:15Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 20:15Speaker 02

  If we're really honest, because if I hadn't have got into concert, I think it would have been really hard to have carried on singing and dancing the way I wanted to.

• 20:24Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, it's so amazing to be able to look back and reflect on all of that now. Like, you know, when we're kids, we just see our our parents, our carers as they're adults. You don't really give it much thought. And then I think when you have your own kids, you can look back and go, oh, my God, how did they do it? How did they do it? And how, where was the, where did that energy come from?

• 20:41Speaker 02

  And with so little.

• 20:42Fearne Cotton?

  And with so little.

• 20:43Speaker 02

  Like, I feel so fortunate between, you know, with the boys, between me and their dad, they have so many opportunities. And so much of it comes down to them working hard. And we both try and say this to them all the time. You will only get anywhere if you put the hard work in, doesn't matter what your second name is.

• 21:01Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 21:01Speaker 02

  Where you live, it's you have to deliver.

• 21:04Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 21:04Speaker 02

  So I'm drumming home that to them all the time because I don't want them to think that anything in life comes easy. Cause for me, it never did.

• 21:12Fearne Cotton?

  No, no, but it stood you in such good stead because.

• 21:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:16Fearne Cotton?

  You're still doing it and you're thriving.

• 21:18Speaker 02

  Still going.

• 21:19Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, but you're and you're enjoying it, which is the main thing, you know, I think if you start to lose sight of why you're doing it. That's where it all starts to unfurl and you know, it's, I just think when we look back to. You know, the good and bad in our childhoods, we can sort of see why we're in the exact position we're in now. It's so fascinating.

• 21:39Speaker 02

  Hundred percent, yeah.

• 21:40Fearne Cotton?

  Do you think not knowing your dad has impacted you negatively or in any sense?

• 21:45Speaker 02

  Um, do you know what? I think I switched off from it really early. I think when my mum met my stepdad. I always remember the first time I called someone dad and I walked out the door and I went bye mum, bye dad. And like this kind of like feeling of like, oh, I've just used the word dad. It's like the weirdest feeling. Um, so I think from that moment on, I'd, I'd just cut off the fact I didn't know my dad. And he was my dad and he's been my dad ever since. I think in the early days. You know, it's, it's, when you're really young, it's not like you think about what a dad brings to the table. It's just that normality of mum, dad, you know, parents evening, mum and dad are coming along.

• 22:29Speaker 02

  It's almost just a term, you know, my mum was enough for a mum and a dad and I had amazing grandparents. Um, but the minute I think my mum met my stepdad and they had two boys. I actually thought, you know, I'm, I'm happy with my lot, like actually I, I don't need to think. It was only as I got older and had kids that I thought there is somebody out there that I could actually be. Walking down the street next to and I wouldn't know it was them. I went through that period in my life of like looking at people thinking.

• 23:01Speaker 02

  You know, like, he could be anywhere, you know, or they.

• 23:04Fearne Cotton?

  And you've never had contact?

• 23:06Speaker 02

  No.

• 23:07Fearne Cotton?

  Wow.

• 23:07Speaker 02

  Never.

• 23:08Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I mean, I've got friends in a similar position who, you know, or they have actually found their parent they've never met and met them, and it's been underwhelming. And it's been a kind of a strange sense of, oh, I thought I was going to feel something more.

• 23:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:22Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, I'm sure it's completely different every time, but it is, I'm, I'm, you know, not surprised that you have that curiosity and that you went through that phase.

• 23:28Speaker 02

  I had such a loyalty, though, to my mum and my dad, who I, you know, he's my stepdad, but I call him my dad.

• 23:35Speaker 02

  My loyalty to them outweighed any loyalty towards getting to know somebody or looking for somebody that I don't know. Like, I knew, even though I think they would have allowed me and supported me to do whatever I wanted to do, I'm really good at putting myself in other people's shoes, and I know that would hurt me, even if you don't want to admit it. So I actually thought, I don't want to hurt them in any way. So therefore, the hurt that they might get from me looking just wouldn't be worth what I know the outcome would be. So, you know, I sometimes think people make their choices in life, and you have to allow them to live with that choice they've made.

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• 25:50Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, you went from being at your stage school and loving it and knowing that this is what you wanted to do, to quite quickly, at 15, having this opportunity to turn into a recording artist and join Eternal.

• 26:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:05Fearne Cotton?

  When you look back on that era, and you know, I started work around a similar age, and it is a strange thing to look back on. Like, how much of it has negatively impacted me? How much of it was just fun and thrilling, which is sort of the lasting memories I have? But when you look back at that time, and it was fast-paced and you were thrust into popular culture, you know, the peak of the 90s, where you've got all these huge TV shows, with millions of people watching, and you're travelling the world constantly and touring with all these other big bands. How was that period for you?

• 26:35Speaker 02

  Again, you know, going to stage school, it's obviously what I wanted to do, what I wanted to be. But you kind of don't actually believe you're ever going to be that in a weird way. You just think, oh, like, at best, you might get in a musical theatre, show somewhere or something like that. Like, you know, if I'm lucky, I might just, you know, scrape some money together and be a dancer in panto or something. So, yeah, you don't expect that opportunity to come through the door. But you know what? I'm grateful every day of my life that it did. And I think the impact on it, I mean, it didn't happen as quick as I think it looks like it sort of happened. But I think the impact of such a vast,

• 27:19Speaker 02

  such a normal human being, all four of us were such normal human beings, being kind of propelled into this completely another world. I think it takes its toll mentally. Um. But I also think there's such an element of gratefulness that you can't even begin to allow yourself to admit that maybe you're struggling a little bit with it, which, because you feel so ungrateful. There's kids out there that would love that opportunity. You're like, and I'm sitting here homesick, or I'm sat here wishing I was back at home doing normal things. So you, you keep a lid on those emotions. Well, I definitely did for a long time.

• 27:55Fearne Cotton?

  But what a head fuck, because actually, you know, we're allowed to feel whatever we're feeling. And if something is hard, and I've done that to myself, that you cannot not enjoy this, or you cannot feel bleak about this situation, because there are people out there that would absolutely kill for it. But if those feelings are there, they're there for a reason. And, you know, you've described this homesickness where you just felt, you know, you wouldn't eat, you would sit in a hotel room just thinking, I want to be back home. And all of that was a bit of a catalyst for you to actually leave the band. And you were only twenty one when you left. That's how strongly you felt about this.

• 28:29Speaker 02

  I think loneliness was my biggest part, my biggest downfall in being in a band, which you don't expect to happen. We're all different people. We, we, we didn't, I mean, I was friends with Kelly at school, but it's very different from then being at school with somebody and hanging out, or and then two people that you've, you've just met and you've recalled together. Yeah, but it's very different. Back then as well, like, we were lucky enough to be successful in so many countries, but I feel like now artists have so much more of a voice. I think back then you were so, you know, you'd get picked up. I'd get a, a month's sheet of what I was doing every day. And there was never a room for me to ring up and say, actually, that weekend, I want to take off from work because it's my friend's

• 29:15Speaker 02

  twentieth birthday. And I really want to be there and enjoy it with my, I need that kind of normality, that weekend. Because you're in a band, so you can't manipulate the schedule because it's going to affect three other people that that particular show might be good for. So your whole year pretty much is mapped out.

• 29:33Fearne Cotton?

  And it's literally every day we're talking. You know, I remember seeing bands around that era. And you're, you know, you'd see that you'd interview them and then they're on something that night in Germany and then the next night.

• 29:43Speaker 02

  It's Christmas Day, New Year's Eve, your birthday. There, there wasn't a day off. And if there was a day off, you then was kind of like, I don't know what to do with myself now today. Because you've kind of lost touch with your normal friends and your normal element of life because you've just been. Sort of on this kind of bandwagon of doing everything. Um, and I think the travelling part for me just got lonely. I think loneliness really set in of feeling alone, maybe being in my head too much, thinking too much. And craving a sense of just people around me that gave me comfort. Um, and it did finally take its toll, actually. We was in America, I think we were gonna do the Jay Leno show or something like that.

• 30:26Speaker 02

  And I was really struggling to eat just because I was just so like that gut feeling of like anxiousness. And our management turned up and they were like, okay, you need to go home. You need to get, I need to get you on a plane, like I looked unwell. And I felt for the girls because it's been so much stuff that's gone in, but for them. It must have been frustrating, though I would have loved to have had more moral support as a band and for us to have. Hung out together, done more together. It must have also been frustrating for them to see this person just kind of like wilting at every bit of success. Um, so I was like, again, I beat myself up about that, but I went home.

• 31:07Speaker 02

  They talked me into recording a tapestry album like with the girls and. I just, I I started it and I just thought, no, this is just propelling me straight back there. And I left and when I was in Brick Lane, went and bought a bagel and got a taxi home and.

• 31:24Fearne Cotton?

  A bagel will fix a multitude of problems. They are the best.

• 31:28Speaker 02

  Tuna bagel.

• 31:29Fearne Cotton?

  But it's such, it's such a tricky decision to land on, even when that voice is getting louder and louder in your head. That you know this is not working and you know you've got to get out. And I think people can apply this to many different situations in their life. You know, deep down, what is right for you.

• 31:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:46Fearne Cotton?

  You're still saying goodbye to a massive opportunity. Travelling, seeing the world, visible success, which everyone's so obsessed with and. Were you terrified that you would just never do anything again at this point?

• 31:58Speaker 02

  Completely terrified, but I think I had reached such a low sort of point. That that wasn't even a thought, the relief of just not having that pressure. And and you feel, I feel so guilty saying it because I was like living a dream from the outside.

• 32:17Fearne Cotton?

  I don't think you should feel guilty. I think we need to hear this shit because we all still assume that. Fame or that visible success is gonna fix us and it doesn't.

• 32:26Speaker 02

  No.

• 32:27Fearne Cotton?

  It just doesn't.

• 32:27Speaker 02

  And and I I love what I do, like, anyone that knows me, that works with me, they know how much I love music, then my happy place is completely on stage. It's when I don't think about anything other than what I am there to do. It's the only time that I have peace. Which is crazy because I should be on stage thinking about everything, you know, like what's coming next, what dance move, what the lyrics are. The only time I have complete peace in my brain is when I am on stage. That's when I don't think about anything else. The rest of the time, like the goldfish is swimming in a million different directions. But I think when I left the band, the relief of not worrying about where I was the next day.

• 33:11Speaker 02

  How long I was gonna be away for, like that gut feeling of we would be in Southeast Asia and. Management or Labour would call and say, listen, you've got to go back to the States, you know, stage just charted or something. And we got a whole host of, we're gonna do just another five weeks, that's all we're gonna do. And another five weeks just to me sounded like. A lifetime. I was struggling, I needed to go home, I needed a hug from my mom, I just. Needed like something and um yeah, so I think when I left. I never once thought about doing a solo album, I never once thought about being a solo artist, because I think people thought. And I've often read that I was getting carved out for that. I mean, that was so far from the truth.

• 33:54Fearne Cotton?

  You just wanted to go home and eat bagels.

• 33:55Speaker 02

  I really did. I just wanted, I wanted to hear like things like the Wimbledon sound tune, you know, like. The EastEnders, like just things that were so familiar that you felt safe.

• 34:07Fearne Cotton?

  But I think there's so many, and we've seen it throughout the sort of history of pop culture and pop music that. Bands and artists aren't really looked after or asked, are you okay? Because it is seen as this sort of golden opportunity and why wouldn't you just be grabbing it with both hands? And going, yeah, I've made it. This is all great. And then we see people slip down slopes where they're not doing well because they're not being asked, are you okay? Or do you even want to do this? And you feel, like you've said, ungrateful or like this steam train's just going and you can't

• 34:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:39Fearne Cotton?

  jump off. You know, you're certainly not the first person to have felt like, I want some normalcy or at least balance. And I think when you're in a band like that, there is no balance because it's 24/7. I mean, when you, and you know, again, you've talked about this before, it wasn't like you were like, I'm gonna go and do a solo career now. This all evolved and was, an opportunity was, was given to you post-leaving. Do you think you then managed to take back the reins a little bit? Did you have more autonomy as a solo artist?

• 35:10Speaker 02

  I think just being, I mean, don't get me wrong, it was still that kind of same. You, you were sort of very much governed by the label and, and management and what opportunities. So you had to carry on doing that. So I did all the same things. I think the only difference part that, that was really instrumental for me in joining it and coping a lot more with it was you could surround yourself with people that were your rocks. So you could have, you know, someone from your management team that you, you got on well with. Like I had a lady called Wendy that was kind of played that second mum role where she was there, she was honest. Someone to have dinner with every night when you're away for five, six weeks at a time, sitting in your hotel room on your own.

• 35:51Speaker 02

  That's where the loneliness sets in. But all of a sudden, you've got four dancers that are coming everywhere with you. People that have become your friends, people that you can confide in. You can wake up in the morning and go, do you fancy going for a walk and a coffee? It's the simple things in life that I think I missed out on in the band. Like just having that. Anyone up early, anyone fancy, you know, if you're in America somewhere and your time's all over, anyone wanna watch a movie or just having that company and people that you could just be yourself in front of. So being a solo artist, I could create that. I didn't have to ask permission to have someone with me.

• 36:33Speaker 02

  Where in the band, I couldn't just expect someone to rock up on the tour bus that no one else knew. So I got a bit more control back, definitely.

• 36:42Fearne Cotton?

  And then life changed all over again because you met your ex Jamie.

• 36:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:46Fearne Cotton?

  Through Robbie Williams, which again, I didn't know, that's a great bit of the story. Robbie's like, meet this footballer guy. Oh, my new husband. Um, but you talk about this, this time during your marriage where you were again seeking that sort of, those home comforts and normalcy and to be at home cooking and to have that married life. But actually, as much as you enjoyed that, your confidence in your work started to

• 37:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:11Fearne Cotton?

  nose dive slightly. When did you notice that? Like, what were the points where you thought, oh my god, I just, I'm, I'm losing that sense of confidence here?

• 37:17Speaker 02

  I think having like my first son, it took, took us a, a long time to have Charlie. I had lots of fertility problems. So so much of those first few years were about that, that I didn't even think about anything else. I think when I had my second son and I was sort of doing it all again, and I mean, don't get me wrong, I was so grateful to be having him. But you kind of noticed that my life had kind of, I, I think my music career and any sort of a career was such a distant future. You know, when you become like just, you feel so a million miles away from what you used to be, that you could never, ever dream of going back there. Cause in your mind, for the first few years, you tell yourself, you're gonna go back to that. It's all gonna be fine.

• 38:03Speaker 02

  You're gonna love having your kids and you're gonna be at home and it's all gonna be wonderful and perfect. And then you'll go back to being that person and you'll go back to having a hit record and you'll go back to being super sexy and everything you was before. I think I started realising that that's never coming back. I'm a million miles away from. How would I, I don't even think I would know what to do in a studio. I don't think I've sung for four years. Like actually sung anything other than kids' songs to the kids badly in the car.

• 38:32Fearne Cotton?

  Hmm.

• 38:33Speaker 02

  Like, would I even be able to, I used to think, I don't think I could sing a song from start to finish. Like, that, that seemed like a, and this is someone that used to do a two hour show, like a full on at Wembley. To, God, could I sing a whole song ever again. So I think the panic set in when it felt like a million miles away from ever being able to do anything like that again.

• 38:56Fearne Cotton?

  Do you feel like you've got your confidence back fully ever?

• 39:00Speaker 02

  I don't think I'll ever get my confidence back to where I was when I, that day I walked into Italia Conti and sung I Will Survive Without A Care In The World. Like, just belief that I was great. Like, I really wasn't, but I believed I was. I don't know if I'll ever get that confidence back. But I have to say, my confidence dips, goes up and down. I can have a really good time where I'm really powering through and then I can have times where I question everything and I don't feel good enough. Which I think is normal.

• 39:30Fearne Cotton?

  Yep.

• 39:30Speaker 02

  For a lot of people. Um, I would love to say I think I'll be the confident human I used to be again, but I think it's gonna take a lot of work to get there.

• 39:41Fearne Cotton?

  It's hard. It's really hard. I think there is something so amazing about that naivety that we have when we're younger where we haven't had knocks in life and we don't feel beaten down by things. So we can bust into a room and be our true selves. And I think it, it's a strange paradoxical thing of, you know, maybe there are new layers of confidence that you feel when you get older, but equally there's bits that go and it's just constantly moving and shifting and it's very tricky.

• 40:09Speaker 02

  Especially I think in our industry and I'm sure for a lot of women in a lot of industries, but, but I know for me in music. I might make a song that would be perfect on a number of radio stations, yet just pure to my age or where I'm at in my life, they wouldn't even get considered. But maybe if somebody else that was twenty five was coming out with that, it might be a whole different ballgame. So I think you're fighting.

• 40:34Fearne Cotton?

  Yes, because society doesn't view older women as having any value, which is a big problem.

• 40:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I'd never thought, because I think we're lucky in the jobs we do, that we have such a big voice and we can be heard if we choose to be. And so many women, the amount of messages I get, and they're so unheard. And I think we actually can be heard. But I feel like I've got bigger walls to break down now than ever before. And most probably do my best work, my most authentic I've ever been as an artist. But there's just another bunch of doors to kind of break down.

• 41:09Fearne Cotton?

  Yes, it's doors forever. But, but how wonderful that you are in that place where you can be so authentic because you've lived this full life already. And you've had, like you say, you've had knocks and you've had so many peaks and troughs and moments that have really floored you.

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• 42:55Fearne Cotton?

  One of the times that seems to have been the hardest for you was post-divorce.

• 42:58Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 42:59Fearne Cotton?

  And dealing with the mental barrage of shit you were getting from other people and the outside noise. Where did that take you?

• 43:08Speaker 02

  Oh, I think for me, the lowest pretty much person could get to, like, just horrendous. I could never see a way out from how bad and how low I felt at the time. Like, if I didn't have my kids, I just, I think I would have just given up. Like, I really do. I think I just knew that my kids were my everything, and they needed me. But I can honestly say, you're going through something so personal, in your own turmoil, in your own way. But then to get the barrage of judgment and nastiness, I'd never realized people could be so unkind and say such terrible things. It blew my mind. Whatever the situation, whatever the circumstance,

• 43:53Speaker 02

  the nastiness that would be said, I like, even now, and I think back, I can't even get the words out because I just can't understand how anyone can be so unkind and cruel to another human. Like, I know it happens, and I switch off from it, and it taught me a really big lesson, actually. And I live by this rule now. You know, it's really easy when you're having a conversation with people. You're in a restaurant, you're having a drink with your mates, and you can get drawn into a conversation, and you end up saying something nasty about someone.

• 44:24Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 44:24Speaker 02

  To get a laugh, to get a giggle. I'm so aware of that now. I stop myself. I'm like, you know what? I know what it feels like to have people just firing off what they think, judgment, opinions, without, I'm sure a lot of them even realising what they were saying. So I'm so aware of my own behaviour with that now, but I was pretty much as low as I think a human could possibly get.

• 44:49Fearne Cotton?

  Do you think a lot of that was to do with the fact that you were taking on all of that outside noise and actually believing it?

• 44:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think I just felt, I felt really, like, I don't even wanna use the word bullied, but I felt just so.

• 45:04Fearne Cotton?

  Attacked?

• 45:05Speaker 02

  Attacked.

• 45:05Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 45:06Speaker 02

  In such a, like, nationally. I was going through a lot. It was, I was trying to be strong for my kids. Whatever had gone on in our life was private, which I do believe that you're entitled to, no matter what. And god, I was such a villain. And I was breaking, like, I was absolutely breaking beyond like what I thought it was possible for a human to break. And all along, I'm still trying to be a mum. And it was just like every time I went out and I was trying to put a brave face on and do things like that was wrong if I didn't. I mean, I felt like everything I did was so wrong. And, and sort of like the years after that,

• 45:50Speaker 02

  it really took me a long time to build up a, a level of resilience. And I think even now, I get really nervous of doing anything where I have to express myself, like doing this record and not re-looking at the lyrics, because I'm so worried of the attack that might come. So I have to really train myself to go, it doesn't matter and it isn't the general point of view. It isn't what everyone actually thinks. It's a small minority. Because I would, like, read the comments and there'd be like 600 comments. And to me, that would be like, 600 people have said these terrible things about me. And then my friends would be like, there's 52 million people in this world. Like, stop panicking.

• 46:31Fearne Cotton?

  Like, ridiculous.

• 46:32Speaker 02

  But it felt like I was carrying the world on my shoulders. I wouldn't wish how I felt at that time in my life on anyone.

• 46:41Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. Oh, I mean, I've so been there and it is the pits. And I think I've probably learned a really similar lesson to you. I just shut out outside noise now. I don't, I'm not gonna, or even if I do see it or I'm aware of it, I won't take it as personally. I think it's hard to say you won't take it personally at all. Because you're a human and of course, anyone firing any arrows at you, it's ouch, you know, but I think it is a jolly good thing to get practised at going, I hear that person, what they're saying, they're in pain or whatever it is, but I'm not gonna let that impact what I know to be true about myself or who I know I am as a person. But it's hard. I mean,

• 47:21Fearne Cotton?

  similarly to me, you were on antidepressants for a period of time. Did you feel they helped you kind of get your head above the ground?

• 47:28Speaker 02

  Um, do you know what? I actually just, I always remember like going to, I think it was the Brits or somewhere and they made me put weight on. It was the lesser of two evils. I was, for some reason I put weight on. I was incompetent in how it looked to my body. Yeah, at the same time, I was trying to keep my head above water. I was trying to desperately just survive in the world that we live in. And I remember just like hating the pictures and hating everything about the way I looked and again, a whole host of nastiness. And I just wanted to come out and I feel like now we would have a platform to do this. I feel we've come such a long way. But a few, like six, seven years ago, um, I wanted to come out and just go, actually guys, I'm really struggling and I'm

• 48:13Speaker 02

  on some antidepressants and they've made me put a few pounds on and I'm sorry I'm not perfect right now, but right now, like my brain is slightly more important than my body.

• 48:22Fearne Cotton?

  And also it's none of your fucking business what I look like. Fuck off.

• 48:26Speaker 02

  It just, yeah, again, it took me straight back to that, whatever you do.

• 48:30Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, you can't win.

• 48:31Speaker 02

  You're trying to find, um, and actually after that, I remember stupidly coming off them, never taking a tablet again after that. You know, like you're meant to wean yourself off. So don't try this at home, kids.

• 48:43Fearne Cotton?

  I did the same. I just stopped taking them. Yeah.

• 48:45Speaker 02

  One day I got up and thought, no more.

• 48:47Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 48:47Speaker 02

  I'm not doing this anymore. I need to. It's a song that I wrote actually and the lyrics are I need to put on my get get up, put on my best dress, got healthy and sober and and by that I just meant one morning I just got up and went, I'm done. I am gonna fight to enjoy the rest of my life in the best way I can. And I never took an antidepressant again after that, so and I know they helped some people. For me, they just wasn't right.

• 49:17Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, no, I had a I I feel like it's quite similar. I had a period where it was an absolute necessity and then I just thought, right, enough's enough. And and then you, I mean, I had to start digging deep and looking at all the stuff we've talked about, not listening to outside noises much and building confidence back, which takes for anyone listening who is in that place now, it takes ages, but it's not impossible. And it's so worth keeping your goal in sight of getting back out there and putting yourself back out there in whatever shape it is, whether it's with work or friendships or otherwise, it's so important to keep that in sight.

• 49:49Speaker 02

  My mum said to me one morning when I was staying with her and I used to sit on the same place in the sofa every morning. I used to get the kids to school, come back, sit on the end of her sofa curled up into a ball and just wait till it was time to go and pick the kids up. And she said to me, nothing ever stays the same forever, Louise. And no matter how bad you feel today, you will not feel like this forever. And I was like,

• 50:14Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, yeah, you don't. You don't believe it, do you? But it's so true.

• 50:17Speaker 02

  But and she was right. And I look now and I think, God, anyone listening to this, for whatever reason, you might be going through a tough time. And and I blame no fault on anyone for my tough time. It was just circumstances with me and a life that I was in. You can really come out the other side. Like, am I swimming in confidence, walking down the street, thinking I'm the best thing since sliced bread? Absolutely not a million miles away. Do I get up and go, I'm making a real go of this? There's a long way to go. But do I enjoy more of my life than not enjoy it? Absolutely I do, do you know what I mean?

• 50:57Speaker 02

  Like, I have great friends, I have a lovely partner, my kids are excelling at what they do. And I've just made music and I'm fifty, so you know what, I'll take that. I'll take that any day.

• 51:10Fearne Cotton?

  This is the energy, I love it, I was so here for it. And nothing's perfect, you know, no single human is sat there going, I've nailed confidence, I've nailed self-worth. We're all bumbling along, trying our best and, you know, with varying degrees of success on any given minute, let alone day. It's just constantly undulating and changing and.

• 51:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:30Fearne Cotton?

  But I think we need to listen to your mum because it's so true, you know, nothing, nothing stays the same. When you're in it, you feel like it's fixed forever, but nothing stays the same.

• 51:39Speaker 02

  Time will always heal, you will come out the other side. And I think I am absolutely living proof of that. And I, I remember now and again, friends ringing me up and going through a similar thing and saying, you were always so together, like every time we saw you, every time we spoke to you and you'd turn up to such and such's birthday party and you were so together, I was like, you have no idea how un-together I was. I was literally, you know, paddling for my life underneath the smile.

• 52:09Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. We put a mask on, we get out the door and we think, I'm not allowed to show any of this and feel any of it and suppress, suppress, suppress.

• 52:16Speaker 02

  And that's what's so nice about the way the world is going and please God, it carries on going that way in podcasts like this and, and other people having such a, a voice of it's okay to not be okay kind of voice. I do think that even if that had been going on five or six years ago, in a, in a bigger way, would have been good for me. Like, I look now and I think, wow, like, there's just so much, there's so many things you can tap into to look for some sort of kind of help, positivity. Um, and it's so more important than that I would have ever given it credit for. If I hadn't have had the ups and downs, like some amazing ups, I mean,

• 52:59Speaker 02

  a twenty-one year marriage, had some incredible ups, incredible times, two beautiful kids, some down times. They all have paid real dividends to, I suppose, the compassion and the empathy I have today to other people. But also the drive and ambition I have to carry on making my life great.

• 53:17Fearne Cotton?

  I feel like doing a fucking air punch. Yes, I'm so here for it. I usually always finish by saying, where's your happy place? But you've already said it's the stage. This is it. You're on stage, you're singing, you feel free.

• 53:31Speaker 02

  Do you know what the stage is my happy place? And not for the reasons, I think, not for the adoration, not for the everyone looking at me space. That is, you know me, that isn't something I've craved. I've never been the craver of the fame and the limelight. I genuinely love what I do. It's all I know how to do. Got it from the age of 10. I went to stage school and sung my heart out and danced my socks off at every opportunity given. But it's the one place I don't think about anything else. So I don't beat myself up. I'm just, I'm just peace. I mean, I just want complete peace in my mind. The more I learn, the more I go down the line, the more I know how important it is to find peace in your mind.

• 54:15Fearne Cotton?

  It is, it's everything. And we get little glimmers of it and that's enough. And then it goes again. That's all quite normal. But look, it's been so lovely talking to you today and I just love where you're at and where you're headed. And it's all very exciting. So thank you Louise.

• 54:30Speaker 02

  Thanks, Ben.

• 54:32Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, thanks Louise. Louise, I was about to say Louise is so nice. I'm not saying that. I mean, she's fucking lovely. But that is just the smallest cherry on the cake. Louise has so much to say and so much depth. And I just loved getting to know her that bit better. We've sort of seen each other on Off over the years countless times. But to sit and chat about those tricky moments, that's helped me massively. I'm bloody grateful. Louise's fifth studio album, Confessions, will be released on the 23rd of May, if you want to give it a listen. Now, are you following Happy Place on your podcast feed by the way? Do make sure you are because then you'll know the moment a new episode is released. And it's not just these weekly guest episodes. We also have the Happy Place Book Club episodes at the beginning of each month.

• 55:15Fearne Cotton?

  I chat to brilliant authors of our book club recommendations, which I absolutely love doing. This month, for March, we're reading Broken Country by Lesley Hall. If you're reading along with us, then brilliant. Make sure you join us on Instagram at Happy Place Book Club so we can all chat about our thoughts there. In the meantime, a massive thanks again to Louise, the producer, Anushka Tate at Happy Place Studios, and to you, because I love you.

• 56:06Speaker 06

  Then I thought, what if, I've scaled businesses, what if I scaled my philanthropy? What if I did as much in one year as I've done in my whole life?

• 56:13Speaker 07

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• 56:19Speaker 09

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• 56:48Speaker 10

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• 57:18Speaker 11

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