101: How "The Hundred Rules of War" Will Help You Rule Your Life.

0:00:00 - Opening 0:18:34 - "The Hundred Rules of War", by Tsukahara Bokuden http://amzn.to/2A2e4R5. 1:48:24 - Final thoughts and take-aways. 1:56:52 - Support: JockoStore http://www.jockostore.com stuff, Super Krill Oil and Joint Warfare http://originmaine.com/origin-labs/jocko/, Origin Brand Apparel and Jocko Gi http://www.originmaine.com, withJocko White Tea http://www.jockotea.com, Onnit Fitness stuff, http://www.onnit.com/jocko and Psychological Warfare (on iTunes) https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/psychological-warfare/id1183222322. Extreme Ownership (book) http://amzn.to/2jonHTx, The Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual. http://amzn.to/2szgaEj 2:20:58 - Closing Gratitude. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is Jocko Podcast number 101 with Echo Charles and me Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo.

• 0:08Speaker 01

  Good evening.

• 0:10Jocko Willink?

  Second Lieutenant Bernard Wilfred Long was a smart young man who went to Birmingham University at age of 16 back in 1912. He was commissioned in the West Yorkshire Regiment in January of 1916 and Bernard, or Bern, as his family called him, served in World War I in France and he wrote this letter to his father in early August of 1916. He said, "We've been having it awfully wet here during the last day or two and my word, talk about mud, it's simply awful.

• 0:55Jocko Willink?

  I get into mud up to my knees. I can take a sporting risk as well as any of them and shells have got no fear for me. I've seen great big burly chaps who do nothing but curse and drink and get down and pray like a child when there is a bombardment on and they don't care who sees them and no one dares to joke about it. I've just heard from a pal of mine from Brockton who went down to the Somme when I came here and he says he's been over the lid seven times in attacks on the Boche Line. Pretty awful that, isn't it?

• 1:34Jocko Willink?

  And I marvel he's alive to tell the tale."

• 1:38Jocko Willink?

  He wrote another letter to his mother on August 11th, 1917.

• 1:44Jocko Willink?

  "I am off by an early train tomorrow for the rest billets behind the firing line where we shall be for a time to get to know our men, etc.

• 1:55Jocko Willink?

  I am going up with two pals and we are all pleased.

• 2:01Jocko Willink?

  I shall think of you all while I'm up there and know you won't forget me.

• 2:06Jocko Willink?

  We're fighting hard now and it's a serious game.

• 2:10Jocko Willink?

  We're all ready to lay down everything if need be and if God wills, I'm ready.

• 2:20Jocko Willink?

  So goodbye and wish me luck.

• 2:25Jocko Willink?

  Your loving son, Bern."

• 2:30Jocko Willink?

  And Second Lieutenant Bernard Wilford Long was killed in action at age 21.

• 2:38Jocko Willink?

  At the Battle of Langmark on August 16th, 1917, 400 men from his battalion went into action.

• 2:49Jocko Willink?

  All 10 of the officers from the battalion died, along with 264 of the men.

• 3:04Jocko Willink?

  On September 11th, 1918, there's another young man, Sergeant David Kerr, an American who dropped out of Columbia University to fight in World War I. He sent a letter to his mother the day before the attack

• 3:28Jocko Willink?

  on Saint-Mihiel in France.

• 3:33Jocko Willink?

  And he wrote, "Tomorrow, the first totally American drive commences, and it gives me inexpressible joy and pride to know that I shall be present to do my share.

• 3:46Jocko Willink?

  Should I go under, therefore, I want you to know that I went without any terror of death, and that my chief worry is the grief my death will bring to those so dear to me.

• 3:59Jocko Willink?

  Since having found myself and Mary, there has been much to make life sweet and glorious. But death, while distasteful, is in no way terrible.

• 4:14Jocko Willink?

  I feel wonderfully strong to do my share well, and for my sake, you must try to drown your sorrow in the pride and satisfaction, the knowledge that I died well and so clean a cause as is ours should bring you."

• 4:30Jocko Willink?

  Remember how proud I have always been of your superb pluck. Keep Elizabeth's future in mind, and don't permit my death to bow your head.

• 4:42Jocko Willink?

  My personal belongings will all be sent to you. Your good taste will tell you which to send to Mary.

• 4:50Jocko Willink?

  May God bless and keep you, dear heart, and be kind to little Elizabeth and those others I loved so well. David.

• 5:01Jocko Willink?

  The end.

• 5:05Jocko Willink?

  And while the Americans actually broke through the German lines in the attack,

• 5:12Jocko Willink?

  they suffered 7,000 casualties in 72 hours of fighting and 20-year-old David Kerr was among the dead.

• 5:28Jocko Willink?

  And

• 5:30Jocko Willink?

  that attitude,

• 5:34Jocko Willink?

  that attitude where death is not feared. We can find examples of it in so many different places.

• 5:48Jocko Willink?

  A great example is from the American Civil War.

• 5:54Jocko Willink?

  From a man by the name of Sullivan Ballou.

• 6:01Jocko Willink?

  Now, after the battle at Fort Sumter in 1861, President Lincoln called on the states to form up militia troops to put down the rebellion.

• 6:15Jocko Willink?

  And Sullivan Ballou, who was born in Rhode Island, was one of those volunteers and he was commissioned a major in the 2nd Rhode Island Infantry Regiment. He was 3rd in command.

• 6:30Jocko Willink?

  And the 2nd Rhode Island Infantry Regiment

• 6:35Jocko Willink?

  moved to Washington and joined the Union Army of Northeastern Virginia and on the 14th of July 1861 from Washington.

• 6:49Jocko Willink?

  Sullivan wrote his wife a letter. And here are some excerpts from that letter.

• 6:58Jocko Willink?

  "My very dear Sarah,

• 7:01Jocko Willink?

  "The indications are very strong that we shall move in a few days, perhaps tomorrow. "Lest I should not be able to write you again, I feel impelled to write lines that may fall "under your eye when I shall be no more.

• 7:16Jocko Willink?

  "Our movement may be one of a few days' duration and full of pleasure,

• 7:22Jocko Willink?

  "and it may be one of severe conflict and death to me.

• 7:28Jocko Willink?

  "Not my will, but thine, O God, be done. "If it is necessary that I should fall on the battlefield for my country, I am ready.

• 7:39Jocko Willink?

  "I have no misgivings about or lack of confidence in the cause in which I am engaged, "and my courage does not halt or falter.

• 7:50Jocko Willink?

  "I know how strongly American civilization now leans upon the triumph of the government, "and how great a debt we owe to those who went before us through the blood and suffering "of the revolution. "And I am willing, perfectly willing, "to lay down all my joys in this life to help maintain this government and to pay that debt.

• 8:16Jocko Willink?

  "But, my dear wife,

• 8:21Jocko Willink?

  "when I know that with my own joys I lay down nearly all of yours "and replace them in this life with cares and sorrows, "when, after having eaten for long years the bitter fruit of orphanage myself, "I must offer it as their only sustenance to my dear little children, "is it weak or dishonorable, while the banner of my purpose floats calmly and proudly "in the breeze, that my unbounded love for you, my darling wife and children, "should struggle in fierce though useless contest with my love of country?"

• 9:01Jocko Willink?

  I cannot describe to you my feelings on this calm summer night when 2,000 men are sleeping around me. Many of them enjoying their last, perhaps, before that of death.

• 9:15Jocko Willink?

  And I, suspicious that death is creeping behind me with his fatal dart, am communing with God, my country, and you.

• 9:28Jocko Willink?

  Sarah, my love for you is deathless. It seems to bind me to you with mighty cables that nothing but the omnipotence could break.

• 9:38Jocko Willink?

  And yet,

• 9:41Jocko Willink?

  my love of country comes over me like a strong wind and bears me irresistibly on with these chains to the battlefield.

• 9:51Jocko Willink?

  The memories of blissful moments I've spent with you come creeping over me. And I feel most gratified to God and to you that I have enjoyed them so long.

• 10:04Jocko Willink?

  And hard it is for me to give them up and burn to ashes the hopes of future years, when God willing, we might still have lived and loved together and seen our sons grow up honorable to manhood around us.

• 10:22Jocko Willink?

  I have, I know, but few small claims upon divine providence, but something whispers to me. Perhaps it is wafted, perhaps it is the wafted prayer of my little Edgar, that I shall return to my loved ones unharmed.

• 10:39Jocko Willink?

  If I do not, my dear Sarah, never forget how much I love you. And when my last breath escapes me on the battlefield, it will whisper your name.

• 10:55Jocko Willink?

  Forgive my many faults and the many pains I have caused you. How faultless and foolish I have oftentimes been. How gladly would I wash out with my tears every little spot upon your happiness and struggle with all the misfortune of this world to shield you and my children from harm.

• 11:19Jocko Willink?

  But I cannot.

• 11:23Jocko Willink?

  I must watch you from the spirit land and hover near you while you buffet the storms with your precious little freight. And wait with sad patience till we meet to part no more.

• 11:40Jocko Willink?

  But, oh Sarah, if the dead can come back to this earth and flit unseen around those they love, I shall always be near you.

• 11:50Jocko Willink?

  In the garish day and in the darkest night amidst your happiest scenes and gloomiest hours, always, always.

• 11:59Jocko Willink?

  And if there be a soft breeze upon your cheek,

• 12:04Jocko Willink?

  it shall be my breath.

• 12:07Jocko Willink?

  Or if cool air fans your throbbing temple, it shall be my spirit passing by.

• 12:17Jocko Willink?

  Sarah, do not mourn me dead. Think I am gone and wait for thee. For we shall meet again.

• 12:27Jocko Willink?

  As for my little boys, they will grow as I have done. And never know a father's love and care.

• 12:36Jocko Willink?

  Little Willie is too young to remember me long, and my blue-eyed Edgar will keep my frolics with him amongst the dimmest memories of his childhood.

• 12:47Jocko Willink?

  Sarah, I have unlimited confidence in your maternal care and your development of their characters.

• 12:54Jocko Willink?

  I call God's blessing upon them. Oh Sarah, I wait for you there.

• 13:03Jocko Willink?

  Come to me.

• 13:06Jocko Willink?

  And lead thither my children.

• 13:11Jocko Willink?

  Sullivan.

• 13:15Jocko Willink?

  And on July 21st, 1861, the regiment took part in the First Battle of Bull Run.

• 13:24Jocko Willink?

  And as one of the senior officers, Sullivan went in front on horseback to direct his men, and he was hit by a cannonball that tore off his right leg and also killed his horse.

• 13:40Jocko Willink?

  And he died from his wound a week after the battle,

• 13:45Jocko Willink?

  while a prisoner of the Confederate Army at age 32.

• 13:55Jocko Willink?

  Again, an individual obviously prepared to make the ultimate sacrifice.

• 14:05Jocko Willink?

  And we know that the enemy can be equally prepared to die.

• 14:13Jocko Willink?

  And we saw that clearly from the kamikaze pilots from Japan in World War II.

• 14:21Jocko Willink?

  One of those young kamikaze pilots

• 14:28Jocko Willink?

  was named Yukio Araki.

• 14:33Jocko Willink?

  And he was a member of the 72nd Shinbu Squadron.

• 14:40Jocko Willink?

  And he wrote this letter, "Dear Father and Mother,

• 14:45Jocko Willink?

  I trust you and my brothers are doing well recently.

• 14:50Jocko Willink?

  It has been decided that I will go at last to take part in the Battle of Okinawa as a member of the Special Attack Forces.

• 14:59Jocko Willink?

  I am deeply moved.

• 15:02Jocko Willink?

  I only look forward to sinking a ship with a single blow.

• 15:07Jocko Willink?

  When I look back, I apologize for not being devoted to you in any way for some 10 years to this day."

• 15:15Jocko Willink?

  Through teaching by various senior officers after I entered the Army, I now devote myself to my country as a special attack force member.

• 15:25Jocko Willink?

  Please find pleasure in your desire for my loyalty to the Emperor and devotion to parents.

• 15:33Jocko Willink?

  I have no regrets. I just go forward on my path.

• 15:41Jocko Willink?

  I ask that you teach my three brothers, so they can serve our country as noble airmen.

• 15:49Jocko Willink?

  I sincerely hope you take good care of yourselves and make strenuous efforts on the home front.

• 15:57Jocko Willink?

  Please give my regards to all my relatives and to everyone in the Neighborhood Association.

• 16:05Jocko Willink?

  Sayonara.

• 16:09Jocko Willink?

  Yukio Araki.

• 16:15Jocko Willink?

  And he did indeed die at the age of seventeen in a suicide tack on American ships near Okinawa on May 27, 1945. And the Japanese also imposed their willingness to die

• 16:34Jocko Willink?

  on their people.

• 16:37Jocko Willink?

  And here is a

• 16:40Jocko Willink?

  description of that brutal imposition from American sailors, from the Journal of an American sailor named James Fahy, who served on the USS Montpelier in the Pacific. And this is what he wrote on November 10, 1943. "This afternoon, we came across a raft with four live Japs in it.

• 17:06Jocko Willink?

  As the destroyer Spence came close to the raft, the Japs opened up with machine gun at the destroyer.

• 17:14Jocko Willink?

  The Jap officer then put the gun in each man's mouth and fired, blowing out the back of each man's skull.

• 17:23Jocko Willink?

  One of the Japs did not want to die for the Emperor and put up a struggle.

• 17:30Jocko Willink?

  The others held him down.

• 17:34Jocko Willink?

  The officer was the last to die.

• 17:38Jocko Willink?

  He also blew his brains out."

• 17:42Jocko Willink?

  The Spence went in to investigate. All the bodies had disappeared into the water.

• 17:50Jocko Willink?

  There was nothing left but blood and an empty raft. Swarms of sharks everywhere.

• 17:59Jocko Willink?

  The sharks ate well today.

• 18:02Jocko Willink?

  We went to battle stations. And at 10pm, we were attacked by enemy planes.

• 18:10Jocko Willink?

  Later, darkness descended. And the rains came.

• 18:25Jocko Willink?

  And just coming off the episode that we did

• 18:31Jocko Willink?

  with Musashi, who obviously overcame his fear of death. And I got a book in the mail from Japan.

• 18:44Jocko Willink?

  And the book was called The Hundred Rules of War. And it's from someone in Japan named Eric. Eric Sha Han, who turned out to be the actual translator of this book. And he's translated a bunch of other Japanese books on martial arts. And he asked me if this book, The Hundred Rules of War, if any of the the rules inside this book apply to modern warfare.

• 19:13Jocko Willink?

  And I read through the book and I read the book and came to a very clear answer that yes. Not only do many of the rules in the book apply to modern warfare, they also apply to life in general, like many of the rules that I talk about.

• 19:34Jocko Willink?

  And this book, The Hundred Rules of War, which by the way, only has 97 rules in it.

• 19:44Jocko Willink?

  But the book was originally written by Tsukahara Boku Den, who lived from 1489 to 1571. So that's actually before Musashi's lifetime. Because Musashi was born, they say, in 1584. So this, this book predates Musashi. And there's, there's actually multiple revisions on this book. It's interesting, people would get it and add something to it over the years. There was a foreword written to the book in the mid 1600s by Takuan Soho. And then there was an afterword written by one of the grandchildren of Boku Den's students.

• 20:28Jocko Willink?

  And there's another section, the first eight lines in the book that were added. And those are attributed to Shogun Yoshi Moon. And he's a shogun that ruled Japan from 1716 until 1745.

• 20:50Jocko Willink?

  So this book is very interesting. And since Eric who sent it to me is obviously fluent in Japanese. I'll apologize, of course, for my bad Japanese pronunciation. But we'll go for it. And I'll want to take you through some of the sections of this book that, again, I feel not only applied to combat today, but to life today. And interestingly, here's the, we'll start off a little bit with the introduction. And this is again, written by, written after the original book came out.

• 21:34Jocko Willink?

  And this guy added this introduction to it. And he's describing how great the book is. So a little bit of arrogance in this, but it's okay. Because he's saying, hey, he's not saying he wrote it. He's saying, look, this book is important. And here we go to the book.

• 21:52Jocko Willink?

  If you change out the people, if you change out the words, if you change out the places, and if you change out every generation, it is like the difference between rain, dew, snow, and ice. They are each formed by the same water. That's interesting, right? Because now we're talking about people. Hey, you can be different times, different places, different, different surroundings, but it's like the difference between rain and dew and snow and ice. It's the same water, the same people are the same. Back to the book. These words should be read by any and everyone who follows the way of the warrior. Speak them aloud so that you may hear them in your ears and fail to heed them at your peril.

• 22:37Jocko Willink?

  They are not simply words to revere and praise. If you are attempting to equate the teachings within this scroll to any other work, know that this is knowledge that can be found only after summoning the tallest peak of a mountain. The depth of the wisdom contained on these pages makes the sea seem shallow by comparison. If you were to compare a person versed in these ideas to a stone, you would find the latter soft by comparison.

• 23:08Jocko Willink?

  Pull a bowstring, launching an arrow, or pulling a bowstring, launching an arrow, raising your whip, encouraging your steed, donning your armor, taking up your lance, gaining fame and honor, and becoming one who starts a great house. Read this book, listen to it. Understand the unmistakable truths. It would be utterly foolish to not lock them in your mind. In my opinion, even if you lived through a hundred generations, over a thousand years, coming across another book like this would be like to a blind turtle who comes to the surface once every hundred years, climbing its way into a hole on a piece of driftwood.

• 23:55Jocko Willink?

  I like that. Now, as we jump into this book, there's one more thing I need to mention. I said that there's these additions kind of to the book over time. Well, one of the additions to the book, I mean, this book was written in the 1500s, but one of the additions to the book, and this is something that that Eric added, that he found a translation of the book by a researcher and a practitioner of the sword arts. And this guy's name was Hori Shohei. And he produced the text, and he put little helpful interpretations, kind of furthering the idea a little bit. So I'll read those sometimes because it gives a little bit of clarification as to what's being talked about.

• 24:41Jocko Willink?

  And these first eight lines are actually, I'll give it up for these first eight lines in this book being fairly epic, fairly epic. And again, these were written by Tokugawa Shogun Yishimuni. And again, he was the Shogun ruler of Japan from 1716 to 1745. And here's what he added to the book. And I think these are, well, here's number one. "You cannot have pleasure without pain, and you cannot have pain without pleasure. Your struggles now will be rewarded in the

• 25:21Jocko Willink?

  future, so you must endure." Right? Kind of speaks for itself, does it not?

• 25:32Jocko Willink?

  In fact, I think we call that discipline equals freedom.

• 25:37Jocko Willink?

  Uh, next. "Be reverent towards the law. Be afraid of fire. Be afraid of thoughtless, delusional people, and never forget to be reverent to those you owe a debt of gratitude to."

• 25:53Jocko Willink?

  This is one of those things that, what do we say now? Never forget where you came from, right? People say, never will forget where you came from. Well, don't forget those people that have got you there. Because where you came from, somebody helped you along the way. And so, don't forget about that. Next one. "You should think of greed and lust as the enemy."

• 26:17Jocko Willink?

  Concur. I think I like this one. You should neither sleep late. Nor talk too long. Now, I guess I'm kind of, the talk too long, I may be violating that on a regular basis. At least once a week on a podcast.

• 26:33Speaker 01

  Yes, me too, sometimes.

• 26:35Jocko Willink?

  Actually, you might violate that on a regular.

• 26:38Speaker 01

  Potentially.

• 26:39Jocko Willink?

  But here's, here's a guy, don't sleep late. And you know, I get this all the, every time I, every time somebody talks to me about sleeping, someone says, well, I have the night shift. Or, well, I work late and my, my kids don't go to bed until midnight. Okay, I get it. I'm not saying everyone in the world has to wake up at four thirty.

• 26:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:59Jocko Willink?

  Uh, what I'm saying is this, you shouldn't sleep late, right? And if you work the night shift, not sleeping late, might be waking up at noon.

• 27:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 27:08Jocko Willink?

  But you didn't oversleep is my point.

• 27:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's the idea, just like I said, like, we all wanna like, stay cozy in our bed and kinda take our time. Right. Get up and kinda thing. Uh, yeah, it's the idea, for sure. That's what I get from it anyway.

• 27:22Jocko Willink?

  It's not the mandatory.

• 27:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, four thirty. And if you don't wake up at four thirty, you're black or something like that.

• 27:28Jocko Willink?

  Like someone, someone, um, I had a picture of my hand on the interweb, right? And I had a little callus get removed.

• 27:36Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 27:37Jocko Willink?

  On the pull up bar. And.

• 27:39Speaker 01

  Oh, on the pull up bar, okay.

• 27:40Jocko Willink?

  But someone, someone, someone said, hey, if, if someone doesn't have calluses, they don't work out. And then someone else said, well, what if you run a marathon? You still work out?

• 27:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:50Jocko Willink?

  And so.

• 27:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah.

• 27:54Jocko Willink?

  You know?

• 27:54Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 27:55Jocko Willink?

  It's, the point is get some, right?

• 27:57Speaker 01

  Kids.

• 27:57Jocko Willink?

  Can you get some while training for a marathon? Yes. Can you get some while running a marathon? Yes, you can.

• 28:02Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 28:02Jocko Willink?

  Look at, look at Rob Jones.

• 28:04Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 28:04Jocko Willink?

  He just ran thirty one marathons in thirty one days.

• 28:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's getting some.

• 28:07Jocko Willink?

  We're not accusing him of not working.

• 28:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, mad at his lack of calluses, although I'm sure he has calluses too.

• 28:13Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. All right, next.

• 28:17Jocko Willink?

  Take care to organize even trivial things. Then if something major occurs, it will not catch you off guard. So that's the little things that matter. Attention detail, you're not in the military. When you join the military, I joke about it, they make you fold your underwear. In like a four by four inch square. And that's the thing, they're trying to teach you attention to detail.

• 28:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:40Jocko Willink?

  Cause actually I was talking to a marine buddy of mine, I think it was, I want to say it was Morgan. Yeah, and they were, they landed their helo and the gunner, whoever was in charge of the weapon, cracked off a 50 cal round into the, whoa, so you have a 50 cal mounted in the, in the helicopter. Guy cracked off around, he, if, if a weapon gets hot, it can just shoot.

• 29:04Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 29:05Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah. Weapon is really hot, it's called a cook off. You've got a round in the chamber and the weapon's hot and it can just make that round go off.

• 29:14Speaker 01

  From what, the what, anything, just where they're.

• 29:16Jocko Willink?

  From hot, if it's hot, well, you're shooting it, okay, if it's hot outside, then you add, you shoot it a bunch. And now it gets hot, there's a, a hot round sitting in the chamber. And a minute goes by, or you don't know, you don't know how long it's going to be, it could be a minute, it could be five minutes, but boom, all of a sudden it just fires.

• 29:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:31Jocko Willink?

  And this, so before, in this particular case, I'm not sure the weapon system, it was a 50 caliber, but I'm not sure where they had it mounted. But anyways, he should have cleared it before he folded it up into the helicopter. And he didn't do that. And so he pulled the, the rounds out, but there's one round sitting in the chamber and sure enough, it cooked off. So that's the kind of thing where they're trying to get you to pay attention to the small details.

• 29:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:58Jocko Willink?

  The trivial things, the trivial things aren't too trivial.

• 30:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, did, did they, do they explain that to you? Like when, when you're folding your underwear, do they explain, okay, it didn't, you know, at all?

• 30:07Jocko Willink?

  They, they do, and I've talked about this before on the podcast, that my drill instructor in, in officer candidate school, at the end of officer candidate school, he explained why. On everything.

• 30:20Speaker 01

  The end.

• 30:20Jocko Willink?

  At the end.

• 30:21Speaker 01

  Oh, like Mr. Meagi.

• 30:22Jocko Willink?

  No, no, of course. No, while you're doing it, though, they'll, they'll be saying, how can you, you can't even fold your underwear not right. How can we trust you with a weapon system?

• 30:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:30Jocko Willink?

  They'll say that kind of thing to you, but you don't really, when you're, well, when I was going through regular boot camp, you're just trans, your, your mind is being transformed from civilian world to military world. So you're not, you don't have good perspective.

• 30:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:44Jocko Willink?

  You know, you're like weapon system, man. I just wanna eat the next meal.

• 30:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 30:49Jocko Willink?

  You're, you're not, you can't see the big picture. I mean, I, I couldn't. I was too young or too dumb or a little bit of both.

• 30:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:55Jocko Willink?

  But they do. They're saying, hey, how could you, how could you, how could you trust, how could you fly an airplane?

• 31:02Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 31:02Jocko Willink?

  If you can't even fold your underwear right, boy.

• 31:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:05Jocko Willink?

  You're, you're actually thinking, well, damn, maybe I shouldn't be flying an airplane if I can't fold my underwear right.

• 31:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:11Jocko Willink?

  But they're trying to teach you attention to detail and it is good. And it does apply to everything, you know, it does apply to everything. And you, you do the little things right. And that way the little things are in order. And that means the big things, even if they catch you a little off guard, you're at least prepared for.

• 31:26Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. That, that whole thing that, I mean, I, I dig it. You know how they're talking to you guys like that, but that whole thing where how do you expect to do this when you can't even, you know, tie your shoes right or whatever, you know, like.

• 31:38Jocko Willink?

  Oh, you don't buy into that, huh? I do.

• 31:40Speaker 01

  Bruh.

• 31:41Jocko Willink?

  Actually, no, it's good.

• 31:43Speaker 01

  You're like, how are you gonna, uh, cause a lot of things, it's like a false little equivalence to you there. Some, some things.

• 31:48Jocko Willink?

  There's telling you to pay attention to little things.

• 31:50Speaker 01

  I get it.

• 31:51Jocko Willink?

  It's called attention to detail.

• 31:51Speaker 01

  I, I get that part of it for sure, but I'm saying like, if, say, they're not explaining why, I don't, and I could be wrong.

• 31:57Jocko Willink?

  Well, they're explaining why, but they're doing it, they're not doing, they're not breaking it down for you, like a school teacher is like, okay, well, let's just echo Charles. Let me tell you why this is important. They're not doing that to you. No, I'm just, they're not, they're not, they're saying, hey.

• 32:11Speaker 01

  I get it. I get it. Yeah.

• 32:12Jocko Willink?

  How can we trust you with a rifle if you can't fold your underwear right?

• 32:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, okay.

• 32:17Jocko Willink?

  And, and, and I would say this, maybe I didn't see the big picture, but I at least saw the little picture.

• 32:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, that's really the thing ultimately, like, um, you know, like, and I mentioned Mr. Man, like on Karate Kid, right? Where he's like, wax on, wax off, you know, and he's like, oh, this is so dumb. Then at the end, he gets the picture, you know, but as he's doing it, I mean, he didn't say, you know, if you can't send the floor, how are you gonna find in the tournament? Nothing like that, but.

• 32:38Jocko Willink?

  Well, he was teaching him some kind of technique, allegedly.

• 32:40Speaker 01

  Right, but that's essentially what they're doing as far as attention to detail. They're making you do all these little.

• 32:45Jocko Willink?

  Jiu Jitsu that would make you, there's nothing.

• 32:49Speaker 01

  I'm sure there's.

• 32:51Jocko Willink?

  Sit there and footlock, pieces of wood.

• 32:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, but that's pretty, like, that's an obvious translation, you know, like, I'm gonna footlock some, it's like punching a punching bag, you know, same thing, Jiu Jitsu version.

• 33:04Jocko Willink?

  All right, going to the next one.

• 33:07Jocko Willink?

  Ninety percent is not enough. Only 100% will keep disaster at bay.

• 33:15Jocko Willink?

  That's good. Now, of course,

• 33:19Jocko Willink?

  many times I'll say, hey, 80, you got an 80% solution, go, right?

• 33:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 33:24Jocko Willink?

  Cause people sit around and wait for the perfect plan.

• 33:26Speaker 01

  Good blend now.

• 33:26Jocko Willink?

  Which, so I think that's a little bit different, but this, I think if you're talking about effort.

• 33:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:31Jocko Willink?

  Right? The effort has to be 100%. You're not gonna give 100%.

• 33:35Speaker 01

  And it's a settling thing too, right? You know, people like, don't, don't like settle, you know, don't settle for 90%. Cause it's 100% is required, exactly, effort or whatever. That's what I get from it.

• 33:48Jocko Willink?

  Next, having good judgment also means being able to endure.

• 33:57Jocko Willink?

  Endure, take pain. And it's not just pain, it's also being able to take

• 34:06Jocko Willink?

  just, just annoyance.

• 34:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, discomfort, like.

• 34:08Jocko Willink?

  Discomfort and like, how many people don't want to do a job just because it's, it just cause it's grueling and not fun, right?

• 34:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, right here, me. A lot of.

• 34:19Jocko Willink?

  You fall in that category.

• 34:20Speaker 01

  Not right now, currently, obviously, but you know, in general, yeah, that's my general attitude from, for the most part, sometimes.

• 34:27Jocko Willink?

  What was the worst, most menial job that you really hated?

• 34:31Speaker 01

  My worst job that I really hated was being a mover at American Hoovers on Oahu in Hawaii for the summer.

• 34:39Jocko Willink?

  But then you get a little bit.

• 34:40Speaker 01

  What?

• 34:41Jocko Willink?

  Like, like, hey, man, I'm gonna move this thing really fast.

• 34:44Speaker 01

  No. No, not at all. It was like moving for other people all day like and it was best like thirteen hours a day average.

• 34:53Jocko Willink?

  I work construction. Did I ever tell you about when I worked construction and the first day on the job site, they the guys came into the Wendy's. I worked at Wendy's.

• 35:01Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 35:01Jocko Willink?

  And the guys looked at me and the in this old Italian guy builder, he looks at me goes, what are you doing here? And I said, I'm making rent. He says, you want to work here? I said, no, sir. He said, you want to work construction with me? I said, yes, sir. He said, report tomorrow. We're over because they were building the place right across the street.

• 35:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:21Jocko Willink?

  I said, yes, sir. So I showed up there in the morning and there was there a dump truck had come with a ton of concrete block to that we were going to build a little foundation wall. And they just dumped it, you know, a hundred yards away, all these concrete blocks.

• 35:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:40Jocko Willink?

  And he says, hey, your job today is to move these blocks over to get them over here near the foundation thing. And he said, we're going to get some coffee and some donuts.

• 35:53Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 35:54Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Donuts. So I said, yes, sir. And he got in the truck with the guys, right? And I started moving these blocks. I was running. I was running.

• 36:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:08Jocko Willink?

  Literally running as fast as I could possibly do it. And I wasn't even doing that as like a challenge to myself. I was so happy to not be working at Wendy's.

• 36:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:17Jocko Willink?

  That I would have, I mean, I just was filled with energy. So I get all these blocks done and another guy was there who didn't go to get coffee and donuts. And he kind of gave me like, hey, man, you need to slow down.

• 36:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:31Jocko Willink?

  You know, you're going to make everyone look bad.

• 36:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:33Jocko Willink?

  And I I would just say, hey, I'm going pretty slow. And I said, I said, don't worry, I'll do whatever. You know, I'll do your job. You can sit there.

• 36:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:41Jocko Willink?

  I don't care.

• 36:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:43Jocko Willink?

  But what is it? Get any of that? You didn't get any? I mean, you didn't propose little challenges to yourself and your little work crew?

• 36:50Speaker 01

  That's actually how I got by. It was like, okay, let me.

• 36:53Jocko Willink?

  Just because if there's a way to get by, you should tell people because some people are stuck in jobs that they don't like right at this moment in time. They're listening to podcasts and they're working at Wendy's.

• 37:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:03Jocko Willink?

  And I worked at Wendy's. Bro.

• 37:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I dig it.

• 37:07Jocko Willink?

  That was not fun.

• 37:08Speaker 01

  Foot Locker.

• 37:09Jocko Willink?

  What did you do there?

• 37:11Speaker 01

  Worked at Foot Locker.

• 37:12Jocko Willink?

  But did what?

• 37:13Speaker 01

  What, like a sales guy in the back stocking shoes and stuff like that?

• 37:17Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 37:18Speaker 01

  You know what's funny, man? On Kawhi, working at Foot Locker was kind of, when you'd walk in, it'd be like, dang, that's kind of cool. You get to wear the ref uniform and all that. And the foot man, when we, we were in high school. So, man, we started working, I was like, this is, it's tedious.

• 37:31Jocko Willink?

  It's weird how your perspective changes.

• 37:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:34Jocko Willink?

  I was thinking about that the other day when you're a young team guy and you get like, when I got my first apartment. Dude, I was, I might as well have been Donald Trump. I was the richest guy in the world, you know? It was like, I was the man.

• 37:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:48Jocko Willink?

  But then as you, you know, you settle into that, then you say, well, you know what? I need to buy, it'd be cool to have a little house.

• 37:54Speaker 01

  Allah, you gotta be weary of the greed.

• 37:57Jocko Willink?

  That's true. That's true.

• 37:59Speaker 01

  But that's natural though, right? It's like, you know, when you get used to something, it becomes the new standard. You know how that whole thing works, right?

• 38:05Jocko Willink?

  Well, okay, then what's the difference between someone? Cause you and I both know people, we all know people. There's people that get to the comfort zone and then they're done. What's the difference between someone that gets the comfort zone and done? And someone that gets the comfort zone and says, all right, I'm comfortable here, but I want more. Yeah. I want to do more, maybe not want more, because that implies a materialistic point, but I just want more.

• 38:25Speaker 01

  Huh. Yeah, I know, huh? Because they're both like really like obviously prevalent and like almost natural.

• 38:32Jocko Willink?

  You can get both those personalities exist.

• 38:34Speaker 01

  But I'm sure we're all like, but we're both of that. I'm sure everybody is both of those things in one way or another, you know, like in.

• 38:41Jocko Willink?

  Oh, yeah.

• 38:42Speaker 01

  You know, like, we're probably both in like the comfort zone big time as far as certain things. You know, I don't know what off the top of my, you know, I can't.

• 38:49Jocko Willink?

  No, you know, what's, you know, it's interesting, because if you think about it, you see someone that's got seventy percent body fat.

• 38:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:56Jocko Willink?

  And you go, dude.

• 38:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:58Jocko Willink?

  That dude's got seventy percent body fat. That's got like, like that sucks, like, yeah, that person should work, you know, try and get that, try and drop that percentage down.

• 39:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:07Jocko Willink?

  But there's someone that's looking at me, some guy that's obsessed with being lean as hell. He's looking at me like, God, I can't believe Jocko's got whatever.

• 39:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:19Jocko Willink?

  Twenty percent or eighteen, whatever my percent body fat is.

• 39:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:23Jocko Willink?

  He's looking at me going, dude.

• 39:25Speaker 01

  Well.

• 39:26Jocko Willink?

  You know what I mean? So am I in my comfort zone?

• 39:27Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no, no.

• 39:28Jocko Willink?

  Apparently I am.

• 39:29Speaker 01

  No, no, because it's not like you were getting after, looking after your body percent levels and then you hit a certain number and then you were like, eh, who cares? Kind of thing. I don't think that that's the way it went. Here's what have, and not with you, obviously I can't speak, you know, as far as your comfort zones go, but a typical one we'll say is that, you know, guys will be working out and like getting their fresh haircut or whatever, and then they'll get married and then they won't work out as much. And guys, girls, whatever, um, you know, and do that, they, they quote unquote, let themselves go after they get married, like that kind of stuff, but they might focus a lot more on their career and then they might want more of that, but then they, you know, it's like that kind of stuff.

• 40:11Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. I think you gotta watch out for the comfort zone.

• 40:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, me too.

• 40:16Jocko Willink?

  All right. Next.

• 40:21Jocko Willink?

  Oh, now we've moved beyond those opening lines and now we get into the bulk of the book, which again, which is written by this book den guy. And here we go. It does not matter whether you are filing, firing at an enemy near you or an opponent some distance away, you should be adept at selecting the best arrowhead.

• 40:43Jocko Willink?

  And then the, the amplification on that says, the lesson here is that you need a strong arrow for an adversary at close range, but a lighter one for hitting an opponent far away. And I guess when I read this, the point that I got out of it was you, you need to be able to select your tools properly.

• 41:00Speaker 01

  Right.

• 41:00Jocko Willink?

  And, and as a leader, you need to be able to select, think of all the tools we've talked about on this podcast that you need to use as a leader. Some guys gotta be a little bit harsher with a guy. Sometimes you gotta be, you gotta flank a guy. Sometimes you gotta be directors, all these different tools that you need to use as a leader. You gotta be adept at selecting the right tools. And I gave a metaphor on here one time about, about how.

• 41:27Jocko Willink?

  Uh, you're like a woodworker, right? This is actually, what's interesting about the woodworker metaphor is as a leader, you have to be like a woodworker, which means you need to learn all these different types of tools. But you need to learn how to use these different tools on different types of wood. And each one of these types of wood, each one of these individual pieces of wood is a little bit different. They got a little knot, they get a grain, they get things. So you, you can't just learn a mechanical skill.

• 41:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:54Jocko Willink?

  You have to learn to be a true craftsman with the tools. And then you have to learn about what the different types of people they are. And then you have to see that each, even a different type, like this person might have a big ego, but they got this other thing. They get a little knot, they got a little different grain.

• 42:07Speaker 01

  Yeah. Like a barber. You know, the barber cuts your pussy using the clippers.

• 42:12Jocko Willink?

  Well, yeah.

• 42:12Speaker 01

  And he busts out the thing and it depends, you know?

• 42:15Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's true, like a barber. Or I guess we could say any type of craftsman that has to work with varying medium.

• 42:20Speaker 01

  Sure. Yeah, pretty much anybody, really. Everybody. You ever watch The Social Network, bro? Watch that show, it sounds weird. It's a, when you first hear the idea of-

• 42:30Jocko Willink?

  It's about Facebook, you boy.

• 42:31Speaker 01

  About Facebook and Zuckerberg. The first, when you hear about that, you're like, oh, who cares? But bro, that's a good movie, really good movie. Anyway.

• 42:40Jocko Willink?

  It's a movie? I thought it was a, is it a show or a movie?

• 42:42Speaker 01

  A movie.

• 42:43Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 42:43Speaker 01

  The Social Network.

• 42:44Jocko Willink?

  Is he awkward?

• 42:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, it chill, it's really good.

• 42:48Jocko Willink?

  Do they overdo his awkwardness, you think?

• 42:50Speaker 01

  Maybe, maybe. Yeah, maybe, I don't know. I don't really follow Zuckerberg to know his awkwardness or whatever, but-

• 42:57Jocko Willink?

  Have you ever heard people call him Zucks?

• 42:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, Zucks.

• 42:59Jocko Willink?

  Like, like we're tight?

• 43:03Jocko Willink?

  We're tight.

• 43:03Speaker 01

  Anyway, yeah, sure, Zucks, of course. But he, he's, he's, he's doing something. He's, he's breaking into the, the college computer or mainframe, whatever he's breaking into. And he's kind of narrating what he's doing. He's like, I had to do this, so I had to break out this, this, you know? And he's, he's doing the same thing. That was a really revealing part in regards to this concept.

• 43:23Jocko Willink?

  Oh, he's gotta make-

• 43:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, cause he has to get in here, cause he's, so he's trying to solve these, it's all code and, you know? So he's trying to solve this problem, but then this problem comes up and then this one has these specific problems. So he has to solve them, but he can't just do it with the current tools. He has to bust out this other tool.

• 43:37Jocko Willink?

  Did he have the vision when he was creating it of, of what it was gonna be?

• 43:40Speaker 01

  Well.

• 43:41Jocko Willink?

  Did he feel that confident about it? Does he see, did he see the whole vision or did he like wake up one day and say dang, this thing is gonna be really?

• 43:47Speaker 01

  No, no, it was, it was like, it was a slow evolution into it. Cause at first it was like, he started with this thing called face smash, which was basically just comparing the girls on campus, like who's hotter? And then you click, okay, she's hotter. Then you go to the next one. She's hotter, you know?

• 44:05Jocko Willink?

  And then that's cold blooded.

• 44:07Speaker 01

  Yeah. And that was a big part of it. It was like, that's what people would hate him and stuff like that. And then it just slowly, um, no, it was a social network, these guys.

• 44:17Jocko Willink?

  Isn't that weird? That's like what a teenager would do, right?

• 44:20Speaker 01

  Oh yeah. Big time. And that's what they were trying to emphasize too. More like he just wanted to be like liked by people or I don't know.

• 44:25Jocko Willink?

  He made that up and thought that was gonna help him be liked?

• 44:27Speaker 01

  He had a weird approach. I don't know. This is just what the movies are. I don't know. You know, I'm sure there's some inconsistencies with it, but no.

• 44:35Jocko Willink?

  You know what's weird is it would be weird to meet him. Well, not just to meet him like, hey, nice to meet you, but to actually know him, I guess. Because then you see what someone's, there's been, there's been people that I've kind of known that were, uh, whatever, sort of semi-famous or, or whatever the word is.

• 44:50Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 44:50Jocko Willink?

  And, and in real, like on TV, they seem like they're not cool people, but in regular life, they're really cool. And then the opposite, I've also seen where someone is, seems super cool.

• 45:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:02Jocko Willink?

  When you see their persona and in real life, they're not cool.

• 45:06Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. I guess that'd be pretty common to kind of be inconsistent in that way, or, or have it be inconsistent as far as your experience with that person. Seems like that'd be kind of common. Right? Because a lot of people, if they're famous or if they're, you know, famous, popular, whatever. You, a lot of times you kind of got to turn it on for the camera, right? Especially because you're essentially a performer in one way or another, whether it be actor or whoever, you know, even like businessmen, you know, like it's weird and it's not even necessarily a bad thing. It's more like, for lack of a better term, a required thing, you know? So like my brother, for example, like if I know him, but then when I hear him talking to like,

• 45:48Speaker 01

  like, I don't know, executives or something, or like every once in a while he'll, I'll see him on like an interview or something and I'm like, like he, there's only because I know, I know him so good.

• 45:59Jocko Willink?

  You know what I just thought of is Joe Rogan? Yeah. So I actually met Joe Rogan a long time ago when I was just Dean's, one of Dean's cornermen, right? You know, you know how Joe Rogan treated me back then?

• 46:13Speaker 01

  How?

• 46:13Jocko Willink?

  Super cool, like, like just cool, just the same. And then when I was up on his podcast, the same, same dude, that, that's, that's a good dude right there. You know what I mean?

• 46:22Speaker 01

  Agree, and strangely enough, I had the exact same experience and this is, and this will, this will kind of demonstrate how legitimate it is, right? So same exact story, I met Joe Rogan for the first time with Dean and my wife. We went to, we kind of knew Red Band through, it's a long story. So we went to one of his shows, we got to go to one of his shows and go talk to him afterwards, right? So that's the first day I met him, same thing, super nice, gave me his email.

• 46:44Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 46:45Speaker 01

  I'm like, alright, I'm just some dude.

• 46:47Jocko Willink?

  Charles.

• 46:48Speaker 01

  He was like, yeah, yeah.

• 46:49Jocko Willink?

  Email me sometime.

• 46:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then, so the next time I see him was when I went to Legends to train, when I was going to LA for, you know, for filming, and then so I'd train at Legends. And so I go there and um, he's there, he's rolling with everyone and everything, you know, it's like he's known there or whatever, you know, like a calm, just another person there as far as training goes. And then um, so he's kind of cruising on the side, so I was like, well, I'm going to go ask him to roll. So I was like, hey, what's up, yeah, I met you with Dean a long time ago, you know, a few years ago, whatever. He was like, he was like, yeah, that must've been a lot, like he totally didn't remember me, you know? It's not like, oh, I remember you, so now I'm going to be cool to you. It was like, he did, totally didn't remember me, I was probably one of many people and he was still just as cool. So he starts talking about UFC, you know how like you, you, hey, small talk before you guys roll.

• 47:34Speaker 01

  And then, um, so it's small talking. He starts talking about current UFC stuff. We didn't even roll. I just wanted to listen to him talk about UFC and so we didn't roll, but same thing, same exact thing. And then, and even when I went up to film with him for the Metamor stuff, for Eddie Bravo stuff, same thing. He like forgot about me again. That was like years ago and he was like, oh yeah, that must've been a long time ago. Same exact thing. I was like, yeah.

• 47:59Jocko Willink?

  Actually, I actually respect the fact that doesn't go, oh yeah, yeah, I remember. Yeah.

• 48:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, fully.

• 48:03Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. He's, he doesn't play that game. He's like, no, I actually met 80 million people last year and I don't really remember you, but it's good to hang out with you right now again.

• 48:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And this, I mean, of course, yeah, Joe Rogan is like this and if people are like this in general, that is just like I said, that's kind of like a, not a litmus test, but kind of like it's this indicator, you know, he didn't remember me. So really, since he didn't remember me, for all intents and purposes, I was just another person. And same exact treatment, just cool, just normal. Oh, yeah. It wasn't like, I'm me and you're you. And there's this separation kind of thing. It was none of that.

• 48:44Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, no. It's a good way to be. I don't even know how we ended up talking about that one.

• 48:48Speaker 01

  You dropped Joe Rogan's name and we started talking about it. So, you know.

• 48:53Jocko Willink?

  Good point.

• 48:54Speaker 01

  Name dropper.

• 48:55Jocko Willink?

  Name dropper. All right. Next. Your mount should be of normal strength and spirit. Horses with a strong urge to win or fearful and skittish should be rejected out of hand. So I thought this was interesting because we're talking about finding someone that's balanced, right? Not, not someone that's, he's saying normal, normal strength and spirit. Don't want someone that's super aggro. But you don't want someone that's weak. You want someone that's in the middle and the amplification on it says horses without nerve are weak while a horse with a lot of spirit cannot be ridden by normal people.

• 49:36Jocko Willink?

  In other words, a slightly strong, somewhat plucky horse is best. Plucky, by the way, second time we've heard that word today. This is a sign to learn the word. Do you know what it means? I didn't know what it meant. It means brave.

• 49:49Speaker 01

  Plucky means brave.

• 49:50Jocko Willink?

  Means brave.

• 49:51Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 49:52Jocko Willink?

  Does indeed. Had to look that one up.

• 49:56Jocko Willink?

  Similar here, as long as a horse is strong, is it acceptable? It is acceptable for it to have a certain inclination. However, never ride a horse with a tendency to retreat. So if you've got a strong horse, it's basically to me, this is as long as the thing is not going to turn tail. If it's a little bit feisty, if it's a little bit of this, a little bit of that, you can have a little bit of different personality. And what I took away from this is as a leader, once again, you're going to get people with some things going on. Some little personality traits, some little like when you're putting together a SEAL platoon, you're going to have some guys that are got some idiosyncrasies, right? Yeah. You got 16 guys in a SEAL platoon, you've got 36 guys in a task unit. They're not all the same by any stretch.

• 50:40Jocko Willink?

  And some of them are going to be even further outside the box of, you know, they're going to have, they're going to have some kind of idiosyncrasy. We might even call it an issue, although I hate, that's kind of an overused word, but they might have some kind of issue, right? Sure. Okay. What this is saying is as long as they're not going to retreat and run, we're all right. But if they're going to retreat and run, if that's their idiosyncrasy, can't have them. Yeah. Get rid of them. What do you call it? Deal break. It's a deal breaker. Deal breaker. Deal breaker, big time. All right. Next, while small horses may be easier to handle as well as dismount from, those who prefer such animals are are a bit dim witted.

• 51:21Jocko Willink?

  So what I like about this is if you're in a leadership position, you might want to surround yourself with people that are just that'll just do what you say and they're, you see what I'm saying? Yeah. Hey, I want my horses all just to fall in line and they're easy to get on and off. And if I yell at them, they don't, they don't bark back. You don't want those people. You want people that are a little bit harder to handle, just a little bit harder to handle. Maybe they're going to stand up to you. Like I always say, you don't want to be surrounded by yes men. You want to be surrounded by people that will question you and say, I don't like this plan. So that's the kind of horses you want. Not, not little tiny weak horses. No. All right. Next.

• 52:05Jocko Willink?

  You should know that a person wearing a newly forged sword will invariably blunder, even if that sword cuts well.

• 52:16Jocko Willink?

  So, basically, this is like you gotta watch your new guys a little bit.

• 52:19Speaker 01

  Hmm, wait, so, wait, say that one again?

• 52:22Jocko Willink?

  It's, it's, you should know that a person wearing a newly forged sword will invariably blunder, even if that sword cuts well.

• 52:32Speaker 01

  Okay, gotcha.

• 52:33Jocko Willink?

  So, you gotta watch your new guys, and here's the amplification on this one. A sword that is not at least a hundred years old is one that you cannot rely on.

• 52:41Speaker 01

  Gotcha, okay, yeah, makes sense.

• 52:42Jocko Willink?

  Like young people, full of vigor and energy, the vitality of a young sword is not entirely stable. You cannot rely on it. Hey, you gotta watch.

• 52:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:55Jocko Willink?

  You gotta watch.

• 52:56Speaker 01

  Unproven.

• 52:57Jocko Willink?

  Unproven. Gotta watch him. That makes sense to me. I'm not saying they won't be badasses, because they might be.

• 53:02Speaker 01

  Right.

• 53:03Jocko Willink?

  They might be. I had new guys that were complete badasses.

• 53:09Jocko Willink?

  But you don't know that. I also had new guys where you'd think they're gonna be good. It's weird, man, I've been talking about buds a little bit lately.

• 53:14Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 53:15Jocko Willink?

  With some of my friends. You, you have no idea who's gonna make it through.

• 53:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:21Jocko Willink?

  You don't know.

• 53:22Speaker 01

  Cause it's mental, right? You're, I mean, cause you can't see their mental, you know?

• 53:26Jocko Willink?

  Mental and physical. It's mental and physical.

• 53:29Speaker 01

  Hey, can you get cut from buds just cause you're not like, let's see, is there like, I don't, I don't know, but you know, like, let's say there's a run.

• 53:38Jocko Willink?

  Mm-hmm.

• 53:38Speaker 01

  And you gotta, you know, do, do they, is there any circumstances that are this or similar to this where you gotta make this run in, you know, ten minutes, whatever? And if you don't make the ten minutes, you're out.

• 53:48Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 53:48Speaker 01

  But there's stuff like that.

• 53:49Jocko Willink?

  For sure. Absolutely. There's a, there's actually the standard times for runs have been in place since I went through, and they're the same.

• 53:56Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 53:56Jocko Willink?

  Uh, for the, for what they call a four mile timed run.

• 53:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:59Jocko Willink?

  The four mile timed run in first phase, the time, maximum time you can take is thirty-two minutes.

• 54:06Speaker 01

  Thirty-two minutes? What are you running?

• 54:09Jocko Willink?

  That's, that's, that, you're, you're surprised because that's slow, right?

• 54:13Speaker 01

  Four mile.

• 54:14Jocko Willink?

  That's a time run. That's an eight minute mile.

• 54:16Speaker 01

  That's pretty fast.

• 54:17Jocko Willink?

  What?

• 54:18Speaker 01

  It's pretty fast. It's pretty fast.

• 54:20Jocko Willink?

  Then in second phase, it goes down to thirty minutes. Bro, you used to run a what?

• 54:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, I could do it, but it's not like that.

• 54:26Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, well, let me tell you, let me tell you, that is not fast. That is not fast. In second phase, it goes to thirty minutes. In fourth phase, it goes to twenty eight minutes. That's a seven minute mile. That is not fast.

• 54:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, I thought you were gonna say like ten minute mile.

• 54:40Jocko Willink?

  This is what, this is what trips people up, or jams people up, as you like to say. What jams people up is when you do the run, you're not fresh. That's the thing. You're not fresh. You're not fresh. You're wearing boots.

• 54:54Speaker 01

  Boots.

• 54:55Jocko Willink?

  You're wearing pants. You're on the soft sand.

• 54:57Speaker 01

  On the sand?

• 54:58Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah. And, and the sand, like, part of it will be hard pack.

• 55:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:02Jocko Willink?

  But then, like, part of it's gonna be soft. And, and this has changed a little bit, from what I've been told. When I went through, the instructors, maybe that run was four point two miles.

• 55:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:12Jocko Willink?

  It was four point five miles. Maybe it was, maybe it was three point eight miles. They, they kinda estimated.

• 55:17Speaker 01

  So if you didn't make it the time.

• 55:20Jocko Willink?

  So when I, when I went through, if you didn't make the time for that, for run.

• 55:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:28Jocko Willink?

  They had your name. If you failed again, you were done.

• 55:30Speaker 01

  Okay, so it's like one strike?

• 55:31Jocko Willink?

  Yes.

• 55:32Speaker 01

  Okay, gotcha.

• 55:32Jocko Willink?

  Now, the interesting thing is, if you failed a run, and then you failed to swim.

• 55:36Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 55:37Jocko Willink?

  You could still, you would still be there. But if you failed a runner, so again, you.

• 55:41Speaker 01

  Again, yeah.

• 55:42Jocko Willink?

  If you failed a run and a swim, and you failed on an obstacle course, you'd still be there.

• 55:47Speaker 01

  Gotcha.

• 55:48Jocko Willink?

  You fail one more time. They call it being on the bubble.

• 55:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:51Jocko Willink?

  Actually, I think, no, that actually came from officer candidate school. I don't think we said the bubble. There's new things that, that, that develop in BUDs.

• 55:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:58Jocko Willink?

  That, that come.

• 55:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've heard on the bubble plenty times. You're on the bubble.

• 56:01Jocko Willink?

  They say that about BUDs? Or that just means in general?

• 56:03Speaker 01

  In, in life.

• 56:04Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah, like, oh, you're at your job. You're in the bubble. You're gonna get cut.

• 56:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 56:09Jocko Willink?

  So.

• 56:10Speaker 01

  Thanks. Okay. So that that's what you mean by it's physicals. Cause like.

• 56:14Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, it's physical. Like if you don't.

• 56:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, you can fail physically.

• 56:16Jocko Willink?

  I've been telling people this lately. I had to run as fast as I could possibly run to pass the runs.

• 56:22Speaker 01

  For that form, I would, that would be me too.

• 56:24Jocko Willink?

  And the one time, one time I paced myself, I was like, you know what? I'm just gonna pace myself. I'll be fine. I paced myself. Yeah, I failed. Like, so then from then on, and I had a buddy that was a cross country runner in high school or college or something. And he's like, hey, run with me. And I'm like, yeah, I did. Like I ran as hard as, and that's how I had to run every run. I had to run as hard as I could.

• 56:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:48Jocko Willink?

  And there's guys that ran cross country. Those runs are a joke for those guys. I mean, yeah, echo, it's no big deal for, I mean, there's a lot of people that can run five minute miles.

• 56:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:57Jocko Willink?

  That are doing those runs and, you know, a four mile run in like 20 to 22 minutes.

• 57:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I'm judging.

• 57:04Jocko Willink?

  That's not, I'm surprised that you thought that was fast. I think I just caught you off guard. It's slow, dude.

• 57:09Speaker 01

  It, it might be slow. Depends on what you mean by fast and depends on what you mean by slow. When I used to like run, I would run on the treadmill. And I would run a seven minute mile.

• 57:19Jocko Willink?

  Talk to me about the treadmill. Treadmills are, no.

• 57:22Speaker 01

  That's part of my point. You run on the treadmill. I'd run like a seven minute mile pace. And I'd be like, dang. And, but I'd only do like one mile. And I'd be like, good, that's like.

• 57:33Jocko Willink?

  I've, I've only run on a treadmill like three, three times.

• 57:36Speaker 01

  It's easier. It's easier. You're like.

• 57:38Jocko Willink?

  In fact, when I was on board ships, I would run around the flight deck.

• 57:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. So that's what I mean. And I'm like, shoot, these guys running seven, eight minute mile. Usually when I'd run like four miles or five miles on the treadmill, it'd be like 10, like just under like a nine minute, something.

• 57:52Jocko Willink?

  I don't even know how to translate to treadmill. I honestly don't. I don't know how that translates.

• 57:56Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I would say it's like.

• 57:59Jocko Willink?

  But a nine minute mile is pathetic.

• 58:01Speaker 01

  Right. That, and that's the pace I would run my four miles. And I wouldn't be dead, but I'd be, that'd be.

• 58:06Jocko Willink?

  Yes, there's something, there's something.

• 58:08Speaker 01

  If I'm, if I, if you want me to run an eight minute, seven minute, eight minute mile with boots in sand, even some of the time, you're crazy. I would be.

• 58:17Jocko Willink?

  So you're a slow distance runner is what I'm hearing.

• 58:19Speaker 01

  Apparently, yeah. I would be going like you as fast as I possibly can to make it.

• 58:25Jocko Willink?

  Check.

• 58:27Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book.

• 58:32Jocko Willink?

  While you should select a sword with a handle that is long and thin, you should reject any sword with one that is excessively long.

• 58:40Jocko Willink?

  I like that a lot of these rules are balance. They're about balance. That's what they're about. Hey, you want it long and thin, but don't not too long.

• 58:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:47Jocko Willink?

  You want a horse that's strong, but not overly strong. You're, this is a lot about balance. And here's the amplification. You are less likely to drop a sword with a thin handle. However, in cold weather, you are liable to drop a sword with a thick handle. For the most part, when on horseback, you should pass a string through the handguard of your sword and tie it to your arm. Once you drop it, you'll be able to pick it up again. Have lanyard.

• 59:15Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 59:16Jocko Willink?

  Have a lanyard on your weapon.

• 59:17Speaker 01

  Have a leash.

• 59:18Jocko Willink?

  Have a board. No, that's different.

• 59:20Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no. I think that's the same thing.

• 59:22Jocko Willink?

  No, leashes are for dogs.

• 59:29Jocko Willink?

  I, I had my whole career had a lanyard on my pistol. Only needed it one time.

• 59:37Speaker 01

  Dang, I don't think I've even heard of that.

• 59:38Jocko Willink?

  Meaning, I only dropped my pistol one time. Yeah.

• 59:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:44Jocko Willink?

  Next. Again, balance. It is good for the tip of your spear to be long. However, if it is too long, you may find yourself in trouble.

• 59:55Jocko Willink?

  Amplification, the blade on the end of your spear should be long, but not excessively. So if it is too heavy, then you'll lose it. Balance, gotta keep things balanced.

• 1:00:06Jocko Willink?

  Next, even if you're able to fly up into the sky without feathers, you have no chance of victory with a spear you cannot wield with your own two hands.

• 1:00:16Jocko Willink?

  I like that one.

• 1:00:18Speaker 01

  Is that kind of like girls overpacking for a trip and making you carry their stuff?

• 1:00:24Jocko Willink?

  I don't think it has anything to do with that.

• 1:00:26Speaker 01

  Kind of. When you really think about it, think about it.

• 1:00:29Jocko Willink?

  Oh, cuz she can't carry her stuff.

• 1:00:31Speaker 01

  She has all her stuff that she needs and she's gonna do well on the vacation as far as comfort goes, whatever. But she can't even carry it.

• 1:00:37Jocko Willink?

  Well, if you, you would have made it not about vacation, but about patrolling, humping through the woods, right? Like, it's great that you brought. A whisper light and extra food and all this other stuff, but you can't carry it.

• 1:00:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Remember Leif was talking about that.

• 1:00:53Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, first first patrol in Ramadi. He had 27 hand grenades with him. He was ready for World War III, though.

• 1:01:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:04Jocko Willink?

  All right. Yeah, cuz what was the double doozy was getting acclimated to being in the 120 degree heat and getting acclimated to running around. The Marine Corps is out. They've been out there for months sprinting from corner to corner, cover to cover. And they've already minimized their gear somewhat. And Leif shows up. Not only is he a little heavy, or maybe even a lot heavy, but also he's getting acclimated. So it's a double. It's a it's a one, two punch.

• 1:01:35Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:01:38Jocko Willink?

  All right. This is a good one.

• 1:01:41Jocko Willink?

  While the shaft of your spear

• 1:01:45Jocko Willink?

  should be long, ignore the ground at your peril. When I first read that, I was thinking to myself, okay, what does that mean? Let me ignore the ground.

• 1:01:55Jocko Willink?

  Here's the amplification. The length or shortness of your spear, as well as the weight, lighter or heavier, should differ based on three factors: you, your enemy, and the battleground. So even if your spear is sufficient, not having an understanding of the terrain will will result in defeat. Terrain. That's what he means by ground. Ignore the ground at your peril. And this is something that's very difficult. It's it's something that we don't talk about, even even though I've talked about it before on this podcast for sure, knowing terrain. That's what that's what combat is. Combat is knowing and understanding the terrain. It's knowing and understanding the ground. It's understanding land features

• 1:02:34Jocko Willink?

  and buildings and what angles produce and and where your patrol should go and where a good ambush site would be. That is all based on knowing the ground. The terrain is what we call. We don't call it the ground. We call it the terrain. Knowing terrain features, micro features, micro terrain. What's this little draw? Dead space. All these little things are so important. So that rule absolutely applies to this day.

• 1:03:05Jocko Willink?

  Next.

• 1:03:08Jocko Willink?

  Samurai do not gorge themselves at banquets. Eating twice a day is more than enough.

• 1:03:16Jocko Willink?

  Amplification Samurai must train themselves to be able to withstand hunger and to always be on their guard. From days past, it was said that two meals a day is plenty.

• 1:03:26Jocko Willink?

  It appears there were some people eating three times a day in this era.

• 1:03:32Jocko Willink?

  Dropping the hammer.

• 1:03:34Jocko Willink?

  Do you eat three meals a day?

• 1:03:36Speaker 01

  Three, yes.

• 1:03:37Jocko Willink?

  Thought so.

• 1:03:40Speaker 01

  Sometimes too. When I'm feeling, you know, warrior spirit. Yeah, I've actually heard that. I think Hoiler was the one who told me that.

• 1:03:50Jocko Willink?

  Two meals a day?

• 1:03:51Speaker 01

  No, it wasn't as much as it was the amount of meals a day. It was like the type of meals. You know, they would never eat these heavy meals.

• 1:03:59Jocko Willink?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:03:59Speaker 01

  They'd, yeah, they'd have a certain mix like kind of formula, but they'd, yeah. And if you notice it, it's really light.

• 1:04:05Jocko Willink?

  Bananas and cucumbers.

• 1:04:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:07Jocko Willink?

  Weird stuff they're gonna mix together.

• 1:04:09Speaker 01

  We, he made this smoothie for me one time. It was like, there was like, I want to say cream cheese in there with watermelon and banana. It was like interesting little mix, but it was good though. But it was like, and like a lot of the stuff is light, because you, um, you know, when you get a lot of people coming in trying to challenge you at the academy, this is like old school, you know, when people, you always gotta be ready. Yeah. So you can't be like, oh, I just ate a, you know, I don't know.

• 1:04:32Jocko Willink?

  I don't like training. People ask me that all the time. Do, what do you eat in the morning before you work out? I don't eat anything.

• 1:04:37Speaker 01

  Nothing, yes.

• 1:04:38Jocko Willink?

  And I don't like to eat before I train.

• 1:04:40Speaker 01

  Agree.

• 1:04:40Jocko Willink?

  And some people say, oh, it's an hour and a half. If I don't eat an hour and a half before I train, I don't even like to eat.

• 1:04:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:46Jocko Willink?

  Two, three hours.

• 1:04:46Speaker 01

  I think that might be psychological. I mean, everyone's different.

• 1:04:49Jocko Willink?

  That's why I ate some of that chicken today. Cause we got delayed.

• 1:04:53Jocko Willink?

  And I was like, hey, if I don't eat now.

• 1:04:55Speaker 01

  You might get hangry.

• 1:04:56Jocko Willink?

  No, then by the time I'm training tonight.

• 1:04:58Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:04:59Jocko Willink?

  Then I would have to eat when we are done and then all of a sudden it's forty five minutes to an hour and I'm on the mat and I don't like that feeling. I don't want to stomach anything in my gut.

• 1:05:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:08Jocko Willink?

  I'd rather not eat.

• 1:05:09Speaker 01

  Well, consider this, we're in a real general way of explaining it. If you, you know, when you eat something, your stomach gotta work, your stomach's muscles, they're called smooth muscles as opposed to skeletal muscles, by the way. Smooth muscles, they gotta get to work and you know, and enzymes go in there, all this stuff. So.

• 1:05:26Jocko Willink?

  That's taken away from your.

• 1:05:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, the blood flow like all this, basically the resources of your body start going to your stomach now. And now you want to demand some resources for the rest of your body. Well, when you go to train, the stomach's like, hey, what about us? Resources bail from the stomach a little bit. Stomach feels upset. You might throw up. Or feel like it.

• 1:05:47Jocko Willink?

  Andy almost puked the other day.

• 1:05:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's bad.

• 1:05:50Jocko Willink?

  All right. Same subject. That's why I'm gonna go right to it. If a samurai is preparing to step onto the field of battle, is wide to avoid, is wise to avoid eating anything other than hot water poured over rice. So that's one way to do it. Amplification. If you eat a lot at a banquet before a great battle, the food will not have settled by the time the fighting starts. Echo Charles called it. If you then were to have your head chopped off, all that food would come out and it would make a great big mess. Food will not pass down the throat of a coward. It appears tea was not common. Okay.

• 1:06:27Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 1:06:28Jocko Willink?

  Next one.

• 1:06:31Jocko Willink?

  Something a samurai should never be without is the thing you use to sharpen your blade. A whetstone. Makes sense, right?

• 1:06:40Speaker 01

  That's why you bring your rings when you go on trips.

• 1:06:43Jocko Willink?

  When I go on travel, yeah. If I go for multiple days, if I go, if I'm only gonna be gone for like two or three days, I will just use whatever random pull-up bar I can find or make or.

• 1:06:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:54Jocko Willink?

  But if I'm going for five days, six days, bring the rings.

• 1:06:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:59Jocko Willink?

  Rings make a big difference if you have rings. So many workouts you can do with just rings.

• 1:07:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, when you think about it, and I know this from experience, it's, it's in my experience, it's harder to find something to do pull-ups on than what you'd expect. You'd think, oh yeah, I could just do it like right here or wherever.

• 1:07:13Jocko Willink?

  No, it can be harder. Yeah. You can do it.

• 1:07:16Speaker 01

  I think so. It's.

• 1:07:16Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:07:17Speaker 01

  You can do push-ups anywhere. You can do incline push-ups. You go against all you need is a wall. Incline push-ups.

• 1:07:24Jocko Willink?

  And you can do all kinds of crazy squats and pistols and jump squats and burpees.

• 1:07:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:29Jocko Willink?

  Pull-ups, that's why rings are key. And once you have rings, then you can also do ring dips. You can do ring push-ups. You can do like assisted squats if you need them. I don't really do that, but.

• 1:07:39Speaker 01

  Oh, no, you don't need help.

• 1:07:40Jocko Willink?

  No, well.

• 1:07:42Speaker 01

  You're the man, you're the man, you're the man.

• 1:07:44Jocko Willink?

  Bro, I'm not over here bragging about being able to do empty body weight squats. But.

• 1:07:52Jocko Willink?

  But you can do everything. Once you have a pair of rings and you can usually find a place to do pull ups somewhere. Parking garage. They have little overhanging ledges. They have I beams you can hang on to. They have. I hate to say it because I know someone's going to rip it and break it and spray water everywhere, but they have sprinkler systems in there.

• 1:08:09Speaker 01

  And that's actually.

• 1:08:11Jocko Willink?

  Plumbing system. Actually, the cast iron where they where the sewage goes out of a building. It's usually a big pipe and it's hard to do pulps, but it's good.

• 1:08:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't think that that's I think that's a risk right there. And it's probably against some sort of a rule at the hotel or whatever you're talking about.

• 1:08:27Jocko Willink?

  Be careful. Don't tell them I told you.

• 1:08:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:30Jocko Willink?

  Don't blame me.

• 1:08:31Speaker 01

  Break the rules in the name of working out. I get it.

• 1:08:33Jocko Willink?

  I'm not taking ownership of you, of your faults. Next. It is unseemly for a samurai to be enamored with the flavor of food that is set down before them. It is best that your meal be a soup made of boiled water poured over rice. That's how they roll, man. They're just like, you know what I'm gonna eat? Rice. With hot water poured over it.

• 1:08:55Speaker 01

  Yeah. Otherwise it's a distraction.

• 1:08:57Jocko Willink?

  Do you think that that?

• 1:09:00Jocko Willink?

  That sort of asceticism keeps keeps you tougher? Kind of.

• 1:09:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, in a way, it it it provides less distraction from your goal because like in in fitness and you know, like working out. Bodybuilding, a lot of time, like that's a factor big time. Because you gotta eat a certain amount to maintain or gain weight and all this stuff and. You know, maintain certain, you know, macros, you know, fat levels, all this stuff. So you can't just be going to KFC and or wherever you think is super delicious and just eating it and be like, hey, this. You you gotta have like certain amount of like lean stuff and you can't add a bunch of sauces because there's extra calories in there, you know, all this stuff. So, yeah, if you if you can endure that kind. That kind of like food that doesn't necessarily taste that good. Yeah, you can get to your goal way better.

• 1:09:47Jocko Willink?

  What about Charlie Paloma eating two bowls of rice a day? For six years.

• 1:09:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm sure that, you know, that kind of. Helped them.

• 1:09:55Jocko Willink?

  Helped them with what?

• 1:09:58Speaker 01

  It's like accepting of conditions, right?

• 1:10:00Jocko Willink?

  Well, that, yeah.

• 1:10:01Speaker 01

  You know, like you, it's like if you're, if you're used to sleeping on the floor with like no AC or heat or whatever. Yeah, and you know, you can go sleep on someone's couch, you can go get rest pretty much anywhere. And that's a good luxury. If, especially when you compare it to a situation where you don't, you, you don't have that kind of tolerance. You know, you know, the kind where like you need a certain like softness and temperature and noise level to sleep, to fall asleep. Yeah. And then some people, they'll just fall right asleep while you're talking to them if they want to kind of thing.

• 1:10:34Jocko Willink?

  I can sleep in some, I, I can sleep real easy on airplanes.

• 1:10:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, me too.

• 1:10:38Jocko Willink?

  I get a little crouched up in a little ball and just go to sleep. You know what? Here's what, here's what he actually said. Here's the amplifying information. The profession of the samurai involves being in an extreme environment. Therefore gourmet food is of no benefit to them.

• 1:10:55Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 1:10:57Jocko Willink?

  Do you think that people that just eat really, really high end food all the time, when they go back to eating normal food, is it, is it like, are they suffering?

• 1:11:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, probably a little bit. Yeah, in one way, depends how they regard it, you know? Cause he knows.

• 1:11:15Speaker 01

  Cause.

• 1:11:15Jocko Willink?

  But you know what's funny? When I was a kid, we, like I eat a lot of steak now.

• 1:11:18Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:11:18Jocko Willink?

  When I was a kid, we didn't even eat steak.

• 1:11:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:20Jocko Willink?

  Steak costs a lot of money.

• 1:11:22Speaker 01

  It does.

• 1:11:23Jocko Willink?

  And, and when I was a kid, we ate hamburgers.

• 1:11:26Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:11:26Jocko Willink?

  A lot. A lot of hamburgers.

• 1:11:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, not as much. Yeah.

• 1:11:31Jocko Willink?

  I didn't even like steak. When I got in the Navy, I didn't like steak.

• 1:11:34Speaker 01

  Huh.

• 1:11:34Jocko Willink?

  Didn't like it. I had to, I didn't, I just wasn't used to it. It took me a couple of years before I started liking steak.

• 1:11:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, usually you hit that one steak that's like prepared perfectly. And then in your mind, you're like, dang, I love steak now. And then even if you get another steak that wasn't prepared that perfectly, you're still pursuing it.

• 1:11:53Jocko Willink?

  Happened to me.

• 1:11:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:55Jocko Willink?

  Don't remember.

• 1:11:55Speaker 01

  It's just like a.

• 1:11:56Jocko Willink?

  I remember eating burgers at Wendy's though.

• 1:11:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:00Jocko Willink?

  Check. All right, next. When entering a confrontation, samurai should neither look back on the path traveled nor what is off to left or right.

• 1:12:13Jocko Willink?

  So to me, that says prioritize and execute, right? And don't be looking around. You see what you see what you gotta, you see what you gotta do. You got a confrontation in front of you. Here's the amplification from the onset. You should place yourself, place your full concentration on the battle and not allow your focus to lapse during the course of the battle. The most important aspects of the battle, the most important aspects of battle are the use of people and the use of natural geography.

• 1:12:42Jocko Willink?

  Right? You're a leader. You got to use your people correctly. And as I just talked about terrain, using the natural geography. Those are the two most important things.

• 1:12:53Jocko Willink?

  Now, can you get target fixation? Yes, you can. So you can get so focused that you're, if you don't pay attention to what's going on the left and right, you might get flanked.

• 1:13:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:02Jocko Willink?

  So you gotta watch out for that one. Next, Samurai should mind neither the heat of summer nor the cold of winter as they race through fields and over mountains exhausting their bodies. Boom. You gotta train in heat and cold.

• 1:13:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:19Jocko Willink?

  That's welcome to the military. You freeze and you sweat. That's the way it works.

• 1:13:25Speaker 01

  Yeah. Funny, Tony Frady and you kinda turned me on to just mentally. It's more like putting your mind at a certain, in a certain way where sure, it'll be cold, but it's not about how cold or not cold it is. Sure, it'll be hot. It's not about how hot or not hot it is. And you can't complain about that stuff. And if you complain, that's like, that's the part that's gonna jam you up, just how you regard it.

• 1:13:53Jocko Willink?

  You know? You cannot complain in the teams. Here's what's funny. Here's what's funny. And I just, you can experience this really easily. Let's say you and you and me are out at the beach. And it's warm, but out here in California, once the sun goes down, it cool off really quickly. You don't have a sweatshirt with you. Neither do I.

• 1:14:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:16Jocko Willink?

  You've got a sweatshirt in your bag.

• 1:14:19Jocko Willink?

  Maybe I have one too, because actually this is a contradiction because if I don't bring one, that means I'm not well prepared.

• 1:14:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:25Jocko Willink?

  So I got one in my bag.

• 1:14:26Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 1:14:27Jocko Willink?

  I'm not gonna put it on.

• 1:14:28Speaker 01

  Take it out, you put it on your waist.

• 1:14:30Jocko Willink?

  No, I'm not even gonna do that. I'm not even gonna do that.

• 1:14:32Speaker 01

  Just gonna leave it.

• 1:14:33Jocko Willink?

  You would not wanna, you just wanna BTF as long as you can.

• 1:14:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:37Jocko Willink?

  Just suck it up. I don't want, I don't want you to see me putting on a sweatshirt, indicating to you that I was cold and uncomfortable. Now I'm gonna, I'm gonna pamper myself? Not happening.

• 1:14:46Speaker 01

  What if I wasn't there?

• 1:14:48Jocko Willink?

  I'll put this sweatshirt on all day long. Yeah, this is just straight up pride. No, there's, there's no denying that.

• 1:14:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's so funny because before I thought like that, I would have thought that's so dumb. Like, bro, put on your sweat, you're ruining your experience or whatever. You're at the beach with your whatever friends.

• 1:15:05Jocko Willink?

  This actually happened yesterday.

• 1:15:09Jocko Willink?

  I was at a surf contest.

• 1:15:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:10Jocko Willink?

  And like the clouds came in and it got cool.

• 1:15:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:15Jocko Willink?

  And my buddy, he was all, he's like, I'm gonna go put a sweatshirt on. And I was like, oh, really? Actually, then we both went and got our sweatshirts, but.

• 1:15:25Speaker 01

  You let him do it first?

• 1:15:26Jocko Willink?

  He wasn't in the teams too.

• 1:15:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:15:28Jocko Willink?

  So I wasn't just trying to, because there's always that little thing going on in the team.

• 1:15:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I kind of feel like.

• 1:15:33Jocko Willink?

  And it goes on in general too, just, just, you know.

• 1:15:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, fully, like.

• 1:15:37Jocko Willink?

  Like you get a rock in your shoe, just don't, don't get it out. Just don't get it out. Leave it in there.

• 1:15:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. But before that episode with Tony, like I would be the guy, be like, no, I'm cold. You know, I can't relate. But after that, for some reason, I think it just morphed in my mind too, like you just got BTF and you kind of take pride in it, you know?

• 1:15:56Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:57Jocko Willink?

  Next.

• 1:16:01Jocko Willink?

  As Samurai, you should take it upon yourself to spend time playing in water. Not doing so could well result in disaster.

• 1:16:12Jocko Willink?

  That's part one. Obviously, I agree with that one. You gotta be in the water. Part two, Samurai should, as a matter of course, engage in contests of strength. If you do not, then your muscles will become slack. Obviously, I support that one. I don't know if this guy would just wanted me to read this book. Cause he knew that I was gonna be, I mean, how could you not? How does that not relate to everything that I talk about all the time?

• 1:16:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:40Jocko Willink?

  Be in the water. Work out.

• 1:16:45Jocko Willink?

  Here's what's funny about this one though. He says that the peasants strengthened themselves with their day to day labor. They also tested themselves by lifting and carrying large stones in front of the local shrines and did pushups in order to build their muscles and thereby increase their overall strength. However, beginning in the Meiji era, such feats of strength became, began to be ridiculed and the use of rocks dwindled. Thus, it is hardly a surprise that the youth of today are weak.

• 1:17:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, it could. And also, it's kind of like that now where like, you know, let's say, let's say quote unquote, grown adults, right?

• 1:17:27Speaker 01

  Let's see who can lift that rock, you know?

• 1:17:29Jocko Willink?

  That's cool though, right? Why are you saying it in weird voice?

• 1:17:32Speaker 01

  No, because I would say generally speaking, that's kind of like, oh, you chat children, you know, like, what are you guys doing?

• 1:17:38Jocko Willink?

  Oh, people make fun of that?

• 1:17:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:40Jocko Willink?

  I don't know, man.

• 1:17:41Speaker 01

  If two grown adults are having little feats of strength competitions, yes.

• 1:17:43Jocko Willink?

  What do you think the CrossFit Games are though?

• 1:17:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:46Jocko Willink?

  Where you think this world's strongest man is?

• 1:17:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, see, I agree.

• 1:17:49Jocko Willink?

  What do you think the UFC is?

• 1:17:51Speaker 01

  Totally agree, but I think if it's not like organized and then like presented, you know, kind of thing. Like if me and you were just cruising at the beach and then I'm like, oh, this is funny. We did. Me and me and Alec went to Australia, right? And we're like, oh, cruising some downtime. We're filming this, this, um, you know, this video and Brad just turned into that. Well, a hundred percent. It was just me and him. So we went from pushups. He was like, hey, he's like,

• 1:18:19Jocko Willink?

  Hey, what about the challenge you did, the challenge you did in, in Maine?

• 1:18:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:24Jocko Willink?

  Those dudes had that 200 pound bag.

• 1:18:26Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:18:28Jocko Willink?

  Got to shoulder the bag.

• 1:18:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, of gravel, by the way. So it's not like a 200 pound barbell.

• 1:18:33Jocko Willink?

  Right.

• 1:18:34Speaker 01

  Gravel thing. Yeah. See, and that's a perfect example.

• 1:18:37Jocko Willink?

  But that makes you strong.

• 1:18:38Speaker 01

  I think so too.

• 1:18:39Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:39Speaker 01

  I agree with it.

• 1:18:40Jocko Willink?

  It's good.

• 1:18:41Speaker 01

  I agree with it. I'm just, I'm just saying like, if, let's say we're all at a, like a bar, a barbecue with like, just a vast variety of people. Like that's totally acceptable, you know, to the 200 pound bag challenge. It's all just guys like, you know, but if we were at a barbecue, you know, let's say my daughter was a birthday party or something.

• 1:19:01Jocko Willink?

  But you had your kettlebells out, right?

• 1:19:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:04Jocko Willink?

  If you, if you,

• 1:19:05Speaker 01

  If I challenge you to the, to a kettlebell, like, let's see who can do the night, whatever, the, the 90 pound one or something at my daughter's birthday party. I think aside from me, you and maybe a handful of other guys that are our direct peers, aside from them, I think people would be like, you guys are dumb.

• 1:19:24Speaker 01

  That's what I think.

• 1:19:24Jocko Willink?

  They might be right.

• 1:19:28Jocko Willink?

  All right. Next.

• 1:19:33Jocko Willink?

  If you allow your Samurai spirit to wither, clearly your body will then follow suit. Your skin will begin to stretch as you gain weight. Part one. I think we all just agree with that one outright. Do you think that, this goes back to the comfort question?

• 1:19:56Jocko Willink?

  Let's take jujitsu at a certain point where you say, I don't really care if I get caught by this guy. Or you know what, um, that guy's training for worlds and hey, if he catches me, you know what I mean?

• 1:20:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, I see what you're asking.

• 1:20:12Jocko Willink?

  So, so my point is at a certain point, you, you, you accept, you accept it.

• 1:20:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:22Jocko Willink?

  Do you think that's okay?

• 1:20:23Speaker 01

  I, I do think it's okay.

• 1:20:25Jocko Willink?

  I don't.

• 1:20:25Speaker 01

  I know you don't. And it's not an absolute yes or no.

• 1:20:28Jocko Willink?

  When it knocks on the door, when the door is, you know, hey, it's okay.

• 1:20:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:20:34Jocko Willink?

  I'm, I'm all the excuses, right?

• 1:20:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:39Jocko Willink?

  Hey, you know, these guys are young and they're training for the, the, the, this competition or that competition. You've got to get in there with them. When I hear that knocking, I slam the door.

• 1:20:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, red flag, huh?

• 1:20:50Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:51Speaker 01

  Violation.

• 1:20:51Jocko Willink?

  Actually, I open the door and I choke that, that person out.

• 1:20:54Speaker 01

  Bring it. Yeah. I dig it and I'm not.

• 1:20:57Jocko Willink?

  But you can see, but I see, I think that when you accept that.

• 1:20:59Speaker 01

  I feel, yeah.

• 1:21:00Jocko Willink?

  When you accept it.

• 1:21:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:02Jocko Willink?

  And the other thing that happens is your ego gets in the way, right? Because, because what happens is you, you don't wanna, you don't wanna get tapped out.

• 1:21:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:09Jocko Willink?

  That's bad.

• 1:21:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:11Jocko Willink?

  So you don't wanna get tapped out, so you're not gonna train.

• 1:21:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, and, and it.

• 1:21:14Jocko Willink?

  Right? That happens.

• 1:21:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, fully. And these are all different things that all kinda enter into the equation. So again, it, it comes back to like, why are you, why are you training? Like, why are you there in jujitsu or whatever? Like, why are you there? So, yeah, if this thing, what he's talking about where it's like, okay, if you're like letting yourself go, if you're kinda giving up and then justifying it with, in this case, oh, I'm old, they're training for worlds and, and that's your, your version of giving up, then yeah, that's bad. But if it's like, let's say you're like an older guy or whatever, and maybe you kinda lost a step or whatever. You know, like, like people do when they get older sometimes.

• 1:21:54Speaker 01

  And you're like, hey, you know, this guy's getting nuts. If I rise to that level of intensity, I could get hurt or something like that. And it's like in

• 1:22:02Jocko Willink?

  Okay, yeah, you know, sometimes you can be smart.

• 1:22:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:05Jocko Willink?

  Right?

• 1:22:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:06Jocko Willink?

  For instance, if everyone's doing takedowns and your knees a little bit tweaked, you go, hey, you know what?

• 1:22:11Speaker 01

  Exactly right.

• 1:22:12Jocko Willink?

  That's something I need to check myself on sometimes.

• 1:22:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, you do. Big time, actually.

• 1:22:18Jocko Willink?

  Check.

• 1:22:19Speaker 01

  But makes that I, but that's a big one, though. Like when you, when you start like

• 1:22:24Jocko Willink?

  What I'm talking about.

• 1:22:25Speaker 01

  Accepting.

• 1:22:25Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, well, what it is, is you, when you allow your Samurai spirit to wither. That's what we're talking about.

• 1:22:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:30Jocko Willink?

  When you start saying, hey, you know what? I'd rather still just keep fighting, even though you're getting beat because the young buck is coming up and training, getting to train more than you, and you gotta work and

• 1:22:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:40Jocko Willink?

  Hey, you know what? Come tap me out then.

• 1:22:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, you still gotta like maintain the, the spirit.

• 1:22:45Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. A lot, a lot of times when people get married or they, um, they stop training or whatever, and they, they blame it on the marriage or they blame it on their career or something like that. It's like, ah, you kinda lost.

• 1:22:59Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, you know what, you know what I do when people say that? People say, I'll say, oh, you know, someone will talking to someone, hey, well, you know, man, I used to train a lot. And I'll be like, oh, I mean, oh, what, what happened? And they'll say, well, you know, I got, I got two kids and, you know, I was just working a lot. And I was like, oh, yeah, I got four kids.

• 1:23:17Speaker 01

  In their defense. In their defense, everybody's different.

• 1:23:20Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:21Speaker 01

  If they have two kids, you have four, they're not you and their kids aren't you. So

• 1:23:25Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, plus, plus my wife was good to go.

• 1:23:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. It does make it hard. It totally does. And it does make it harder with the kids and a career and stuff like that.

• 1:23:36Jocko Willink?

  I didn't say it was easy.

• 1:23:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, agreed. That's what I was gonna say. It's like

• 1:23:39Jocko Willink?

  Could be slightly invalid.

• 1:23:41Speaker 01

  It's invalid at the end of the day because you either kept your warrior, your Samurai spirit, or you didn't. And if you didn't, then you allowed these things, which are true, by the way, by your, as far as what you're, not you, but obviously this person, this hypothetical person. If their career or family got in the way, you allowed that to happen. It's not easy. Totally not easy. It's up to you, though, at the end of the day.

• 1:24:05Speaker 01

  I think.

• 1:24:06Jocko Willink?

  Samurai are never without a sword on their hip. This means, of course, that an unarmed enemy will arm himself. So you gotta always expect, in my mind, always expect that your opponent is gonna be armed. Business, life, whatever you're doing, always, you can always expect that your opponent is ready.

• 1:24:30Jocko Willink?

  I always expect them to be ready. Next. As a samurai, you should take care as to where your feet step as a matter of course. You never want to be off balance in case the unexpected occurs. Well, that's pretty self-explanatory. The amplifying information says samurai have to keep themselves prepared at all times to respond. They have to be able to react calmly in a situation without any panic. Boom. Again, does that apply to everything? Yes, it does. No doubt about it.

• 1:25:04Jocko Willink?

  Samurai who are not aware of the things they should know are like cats that do not know how to catch mice.

• 1:25:13Jocko Willink?

  Not aware of things they should know.

• 1:25:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:20Jocko Willink?

  Samurai should be continuously thinking about military manners, matters. Fail to do this at your peril.

• 1:25:31Jocko Willink?

  Those that serve in the military should be in a continuous state of thinking of warfare. To be negligent in this will result in failure and defeat.

• 1:25:44Jocko Willink?

  You know, I told this, I tell this to the young military people that I work with.

• 1:25:50Jocko Willink?

  That this is your job, this is your profession. And you gotta do everything you can to master it. And that means what is being said right here continuously thinking about military manners, matters.

• 1:26:05Jocko Willink?

  Any Samurai who spends too much time playing ball, Koto guitar, plucking the mouth harp, or playing the flute are liable to become a coward.

• 1:26:16Speaker 01

  Dang, alright.

• 1:26:19Jocko Willink?

  And here it says those in the military should never become overly infatuated with diversionary games.

• 1:26:25Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:26:26Jocko Willink?

  Now, at some point, I'd like to get better at guitar, but apparently.

• 1:26:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, man, you gotta rethink that.

• 1:26:35Jocko Willink?

  Next, while a Samurai may be clumsy about some things, the spear, the horse, and the bow should not be among them. I like that.

• 1:26:47Jocko Willink?

  This one is key. Samurai should make a habit of regularly listening to tales of military combat and rely on the learning found therein.

• 1:26:59Jocko Willink?

  This is a blatant plug for Jocko Podcast.

• 1:27:04Speaker 01

  I think, yeah.

• 1:27:05Jocko Willink?

  And here's the amplifying information. By listening to such tales regularly, it will keep them fresh in your mind. When actual combat arises, they will be of benefit. Boom. Boom. And I've definitely got that feedback. I've gotten all kinds of good feedback about that from guys in the military. That they can relate, because I'm telling you, the stories that we tell over and over again, they're stories that happen. They're real things. There's fire maneuver. There's people acting weird. There's the enemy doing things. These things are real. It is definitely helpful. The more you, I wish I would have known more when I was in. I would have been infinitely better. We didn't have enough of a focus on it, though.

• 1:27:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, it kind of goes for everything too, yeah. Like, because it kind of keeps your whole, like, approach to life in that, that battle frame, you know?

• 1:28:01Speaker 01

  So everything, you know.

• 1:28:02Jocko Willink?

  Well, it gives you different perspective. And I talk about this all the time. If, if you learn the arm bar, right, from the mount.

• 1:28:08Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:28:08Jocko Willink?

  You learn it one way, but you don't realize, man, there's, there's infinitely different ways to do it. You can get it from the guard. You can get it from the bottom position. You can get it from a cross side. You can get all the, you can get the arm lock from all these different positions.

• 1:28:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:21Jocko Willink?

  And every time you see it from a different angle, you get better at all of them.

• 1:28:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:25Jocko Willink?

  So every time you see a military situation from a different angle, from a leadership perspective, from the groundtrooper perspective, from the cold, from the hot, from the desert, from the mountains.

• 1:28:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:33Jocko Willink?

  You learn something.

• 1:28:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:35Jocko Willink?

  It makes you better at it.

• 1:28:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, so looking at things through that, you know, whatever it may be, whether it be military history, whatever, you're always kind of looking at things in that way.

• 1:28:45Jocko Willink?

  Yes.

• 1:28:45Speaker 01

  Figure like this, we had this guy, we called him Uncle Joe. He was my friend of the family.

• 1:28:51Jocko Willink?

  In Hawaii?

• 1:28:51Speaker 01

  In Hawaii, yeah. And he's, he was a really good artist, but he used to climb trees and take us, just tree climbing. I know, random hippie thing, actually me talking about it right now, but it was super good fun. This guy, he'd always be like.

• 1:29:04Jocko Willink?

  Well, there's, there's an instinct of, there's an instinct of, of climbing, right? I think humans have an instinct to climb things.

• 1:29:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, that makes sense.

• 1:29:12Jocko Willink?

  I don't know.

• 1:29:13Speaker 01

  It seems like, yeah.

• 1:29:14Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 1:29:15Speaker 01

  And air, it would be weird because he'd pull out that climbing thing. He'd be like, I bet I could climb up there. You know, that, that, it's kind of like dang, if you kind of have these, like, looking at things through frames that are, that are useful, you know, like, I think like, but it's like, man, you can figure a lot of things out that you, a lot of people wouldn't figure out.

• 1:29:33Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:33Speaker 01

  You know, like, I know V V is like that for sure. Be like, dang, that's like a good shot of that, you know, no one, no one cares. It's just a beach or whatever, but.

• 1:29:41Jocko Willink?

  I was a young enlisted guy and I had a friend that would, would, uh, he would kind of like your friend, like, like to climb things. This guy would jump off things.

• 1:29:50Speaker 01

  Uncle Joe.

• 1:29:51Jocko Willink?

  Uncle Joe would climb things. This guy would jump off things.

• 1:29:54Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 1:29:55Jocko Willink?

  And we were on this obstacle course, this random obstacle course, and he climbed, he also liked to climb, but then he got to the top of this thing. It was probably, let's call it 18 feet.

• 1:30:07Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:30:08Jocko Willink?

  And I'm, I slid down the rope and the other guy slid down the rope and the chief that we were with slid down the rope.

• 1:30:14Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:30:15Jocko Willink?

  And I look up and he go, and he's got, kind of got like a puzzled look on his face.

• 1:30:20Speaker 01

  What? At you guys?

• 1:30:21Jocko Willink?

  The jumper. The jumper's got like a, a, a curious look on his face.

• 1:30:25Speaker 01

  Inquisitive?

• 1:30:26Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. And he says, I think I could jump down this.

• 1:30:30Speaker 01

  Eighteen feet.

• 1:30:31Jocko Willink?

  And I go, do it.

• 1:30:34Jocko Willink?

  And the chief goes, don't do it.

• 1:30:38Jocko Willink?

  And he said, I think I could make it. And the, and I said, do it. And the chief says, don't do it. And I go, ten bucks. The chief goes, shut up, Jocko. Don't do it. And I go, twenty bucks. And he goes, shut up. And right as he's saying that, the jumper jumped.

• 1:30:59Speaker 01

  Did it.

• 1:31:00Jocko Willink?

  And he made it. Jumped like eighteen feet down, just landed PLF.

• 1:31:04Speaker 01

  PLF.

• 1:31:04Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, parachute landing fall.

• 1:31:06Speaker 01

  Oh, like you break your fall down and roll.

• 1:31:09Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, it's almost like a judo fall, but with your, yeah.

• 1:31:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, like it disperses like the way, yes.

• 1:31:14Jocko Willink?

  He did it.

• 1:31:15Speaker 01

  It's good, man.

• 1:31:16Jocko Willink?

  I got in trouble.

• 1:31:18Speaker 01

  Good.

• 1:31:19Jocko Willink?

  In a good hearted way.

• 1:31:21Speaker 01

  No, man.

• 1:31:22Jocko Willink?

  You could have gotten hurt. That would have been your fault.

• 1:31:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:31:24Jocko Willink?

  All that kind of thing.

• 1:31:26Speaker 01

  It would have been.

• 1:31:26Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I know. I know.

• 1:31:28Speaker 01

  You knew his jumping weakness.

• 1:31:30Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:30Speaker 01

  His addiction to jumping and you exploited it.

• 1:31:33Jocko Willink?

  Next. Samurai should keep in their hearts the fact that they only die once. Forgetting this will result in failure. Samurai who forget, this is the, this is, so this, this one's a little bit tricky for me to understand. Samurai should keep in their hearts the fact that they only die once. Forgetting this will result in failure. And the amplification on this one says, Samurai who forget that they can die at any time and in any place could end up in humiliating failure.

• 1:32:06Jocko Willink?

  In other words, throwing your body into the river and relying on fate to determine if you float to the shallows. If you love your life too much, you will always end in failure. So this is what I found interesting about this one. There's a dichotomy here. The dichotomy to me is, if, if you care too much about being alive, then you won't take any risk and you'll be too scared and you'll, that's gonna be bad.

• 1:32:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:30Jocko Willink?

  So that, that's, that, we know that that one's bad. So we know, we get that one. If you love your life too much, you, you will always end in failure. Maybe not always, but it's gonna definitely play a role. You'll be too cautious. You won't take any risk. You'll be scared. That one's gonna be, you'll hesitate.

• 1:32:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:44Jocko Willink?

  So we get that one. Um, the, keeping your hearts that you'll only die once, okay. So that means to me, okay, so. You can die at any time. I'm gonna make it worth it in my mind.

• 1:32:59Speaker 01

  Make it dope, yeah.

• 1:33:00Jocko Willink?

  Make it dope, okay? And then this whole thing about, okay, let me read it word for word. Throwing your body into the river and relying on fate to determine if you float to the shallows.

• 1:33:13Jocko Willink?

  I don't know, to me, that could be taken two ways. And I think they're both okay. Number one is, is like, hey, don't just throw, just, just jump, don't just jump into the river and see, and let fate decide if you're gonna make or not. No, you prepare and you train and you're ready.

• 1:33:32Jocko Willink?

  The other way it could be taken is, you know what? You can't control everything. You gotta go. Jump into the river and if you, if you're meant to make it, you're gonna make it. Either one of those can possibly set your mind at ease and what I, you know, you've heard me talk about fear and it's in Way of the Warrior Kid, right?

• 1:33:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:47Jocko Willink?

  Way of the Warrior Kid, what happens? You, you prepare everything you can, but then eventually you gotta jump and see if the water, if the current takes you to the shallow water again. That's the way it's gotta be.

• 1:33:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:56Jocko Willink?

  So that's the way I took that one.

• 1:33:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:58Jocko Willink?

  I read a lot into that one.

• 1:33:59Speaker 01

  I think the first one, just because the other one would, would add kind of additional ex, like requirement, required explanation, like.

• 1:34:06Jocko Willink?

  So you're saying you, you agree with preparing?

• 1:34:08Speaker 01

  I, no, I think, yeah, yeah, I agree with preparing. I think the, of the two that you just said, the first one I think makes more sense to me that that's what he meant.

• 1:34:15Jocko Willink?

  So you're, you're thinking that he meant

• 1:34:19Jocko Willink?

  to prepare the best of your ability.

• 1:34:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. Right. Like he, like, it's kind of like you only have one life and if you're gonna die, make it legit. Don't be dying trying to cross the river. You better die doing something big time, you know, kind of thing.

• 1:34:34Jocko Willink?

  There's one more little addition that I believe that Eric actually added on here. Yeah. This is his note. It says, the line about throwing your body into the river and relying on fate to determine if you float in the shallows is very famous. It's not that famous because I Googled it and I couldn't find it.

• 1:34:51Jocko Willink?

  Now he says, enter battle fully, fully committed and perhaps you will emerge alive at the end. I think that makes some sense. For me, prepare to the best of your ability.

• 1:35:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:35:05Jocko Willink?

  Be fully committed. And then don't worry about what the end is going to come because you can't control everything.

• 1:35:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:35:10Jocko Willink?

  I think we're good.

• 1:35:11Speaker 01

  I think I agree.

• 1:35:14Jocko Willink?

  Now, this one, I had to, I had to.

• 1:35:18Jocko Willink?

  Dig on this one a little bit too. Samurai study a great many things, however, the single focus of their learning is death.

• 1:35:29Jocko Willink?

  And then.

• 1:35:32Jocko Willink?

  The, the amplifying information here. Is while Samurai do intensive training and study a variety of topics, what it all boils down to is seeking death. So that, that kind of, that one. I, I tried to figure out what that meant, or at least what it means to me. And I think to, to the most positive way I could, because seeking death, right? Are you really seeking death? Is that what you're trying to do? Well, no, if you're, you're not helping the cause if you're seeking death. Right? You don't want to die. That's not our goal. It's an occurrence that could happen. As a matter of fact, it's going to happen to all of us. But. The way I look at it is what we're trying to learn, we're trying to understand.

• 1:36:18Jocko Willink?

  And master is death and the fear of death. If we can get over that.

• 1:36:23Jocko Willink?

  Little.

• 1:36:25Jocko Willink?

  Little hurdle, right? Then you've mastered that. And once you're actually saying, I'm going forward. I'm prepared. Then we're good.

• 1:36:35Speaker 01

  Or it could be also just like, just, you know, as far as seeking challenges go, you want to seek one challenge and you want to seek a bigger challenge.

• 1:36:43Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, but he says seeking death, bro.

• 1:36:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's what I mean though. So you're pursuing the ultimate challenge that beats you. Kind of like, um, you ever watch Point Break? Come on, bro.

• 1:36:53Jocko Willink?

  Yes.

• 1:36:53Speaker 01

  Point Break, there you go. Where, you know, Bodhi, he's looking for the, the 50 year storm, remember? Same thing. So he's like, I'm going to be there and all this stuff. He's always trying to push the limit, all these things, bank robbery, skydiving, all this stuff. And. You know, finds the 50 year storm, knows it, 100% knows it. In fact, that was kind of like his escape from the law.

• 1:37:18Speaker 01

  Catch one of those ways dies. Everyone knew it.

• 1:37:21Jocko Willink?

  Did he really die or was there a sequel where he lived?

• 1:37:24Speaker 01

  He died. It was all kind of, I guess now that you mention it, there's room for a sequel. There's room for a sequel. Exactly. But it was.

• 1:37:30Jocko Willink?

  But they made a sequel. They remade the same movie.

• 1:37:32Speaker 01

  Yeah. Did you see that one?

• 1:37:33Jocko Willink?

  No.

• 1:37:34Speaker 01

  Not bad. I see what they're doing there. Um, you know, a little bit too like you could tell they were trying to target maybe some teenagers or something like that, but um, not bad. Sat through it. Glad. It wasn't a waste of time.

• 1:37:45Jocko Willink?

  It was something. All right. This one again, had to, had to dig a little deeper on this one. If you were to ask what can, what is it that concerns a Samurai? The answer is, I want to live. I want to live. Okay? So to break that down a little bit, I, I looked at the word concerns.

• 1:38:12Jocko Willink?

  And what concerns means is worries or troubles. It's not, I don't think they're using it more like, oh, that, that concerns me.

• 1:38:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:18Jocko Willink?

  Like, like it's not saying, hey, what, what, what concerns me? Or what I'm thinking about. It's what I'm worried about. What I'm worried about is someone that's saying, I want to live. I want to live.

• 1:38:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:29Jocko Willink?

  That's what they're worried about.

• 1:38:30Speaker 01

  Gotcha.

• 1:38:31Jocko Willink?

  Cause someone that's saying, I want to live. And I think you can apply this to a lot of stuff. Let's take negotiation, right?

• 1:38:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:36Jocko Willink?

  You get negotiation with somebody?

• 1:38:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:38Jocko Willink?

  If you're saying, I want to win this deal. I want to win this deal. I want, you're out of position of weakness.

• 1:38:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:38:43Jocko Willink?

  So even in business, you can't have the position of I want to live. I want to live. I want to, I want to score this deal. I want to make, I want to get this deal done. Like, no, you, if you're actually negotiating, you need to be able to walk away from the deal and say, no, we're done. I'm out.

• 1:38:55Speaker 01

  Strangely, they say the same thing about picking up girls.

• 1:38:59Jocko Willink?

  Same thing. Yes. If you're all, I hope I get this girl. I hope I get this girl. That girl doesn't want to be with a guy that's desperate.

• 1:39:07Speaker 01

  Desperate dude.

• 1:39:08Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. The amplification here says, in answer to the question, what do Samurai worry about? The answer is having the desire to extend their own life is something worth regretting. Samurai who value their own lives are not worth a farthing. Yeah. So we've got

• 1:39:27Jocko Willink?

  that's, I think you need to be able to set aside

• 1:39:32Jocko Willink?

  that.

• 1:39:35Jocko Willink?

  Well, I think it applies to everything.

• 1:39:37Speaker 01

  I think so too.

• 1:39:38Jocko Willink?

  It applies to everything.

• 1:39:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:39Jocko Willink?

  If you're so concerned like in jujitsu.

• 1:39:41Speaker 01

  Jujitsu.

• 1:39:41Jocko Willink?

  If you're totally concerned about winning and not tapping out.

• 1:39:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:45Jocko Willink?

  You're not gonna learn.

• 1:39:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:47Jocko Willink?

  And even worse, you're not gonna compete. You're not even gonna roll with people.

• 1:39:50Speaker 01

  Not gonna do well. Yeah. And you're so apprehensive and yeah, it applies a lot, for sure.

• 1:39:57Jocko Willink?

  Here's a good one. It is important to understand

• 1:40:03Jocko Willink?

  that should the mirror in a samurai's heart be unclouded, then the opponent will be clearly reflected in it.

• 1:40:13Jocko Willink?

  Good one. Amplification. Any samurai whose will is firm can be described as having a mind that is unclouded. So if your will is firm, think about that. If your will is firm,

• 1:40:28Jocko Willink?

  you can be described as having a mind that is unclouded. In such a state, the strength or weakness of the opponent will be perfectly reflected.

• 1:40:41Jocko Willink?

  Next. Samurai cast off thoughts of both life and death. Their mind is set on moving forward. Amplification. Samurai do not dwell even for a moment on whether they live or die.

• 1:40:58Jocko Willink?

  Fulfilling their mission requires samurai to advance. It is what they do best, what they were made for.

• 1:41:08Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. That is, I think that that one breaks down to

• 1:41:14Jocko Willink?

  being able to clear your mind on what happened the last go around, right? Not worried about the future, not worried about the, like, when you're doing something, like, if you're competing, you make a mistake, you have to put that out of your brain completely.

• 1:41:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:27Jocko Willink?

  And you need to, okay, the mistake happened, or you did something great, you can't jump up and down and be all happy about that. You need to just clear your mind and

• 1:41:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:35Jocko Willink?

  keep the mind empty.

• 1:41:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:37Jocko Willink?

  You can't get freaked out about the next shot or the last shot.

• 1:41:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:43Jocko Willink?

  We learn that in shooting. Like, this is something you see all the time when we're shooting. We do little, basically, when you're shooting in the teams, everything is a competition.

• 1:41:51Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:41:52Jocko Willink?

  And you'd see a guy, you're shooting head plates and they'd have six head plates in a row. Which is a steel plate about the size of a head. And you gotta shoot him. And when you shoot it, you instantly know if you hit a miss, because it goes ping, ping, ping, ping, ping.

• 1:42:04Jocko Willink?

  And if you see a guy that can't put the last one out of their head, you hear, you know, it's

• 1:42:21Jocko Willink?

  mag change. It's, it's, it's bad. But a guy that's really good, he'll miss and just, he'll just miss and he doesn't even think about it. You hear, you hear ping, ping, ping, ping, ping, ping, you just, no, no factor.

• 1:42:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, it is the proverbial choking, you know, like you choke at the end. Like, why is this guy choking at the end when he was killing it before?

• 1:42:44Jocko Willink?

  You can train your mind to do that. You can train your mind to do that. So where you're just, and actually, when I'd be shooting a lot, I could get to that point. And then if I'm not shooting a bunch, I would lose that. And all of a sudden I'd be like

• 1:42:59Jocko Willink?

  get frustrated. If you're shooting regularly, you get that, you get past that. And the older you get, and the more you do it, the more you can just say, nope, don't care.

• 1:43:08Speaker 01

  You know what a phrase would, would, would always work with me? When someone, like if you had a coach or something, where, you know, in football, you'd have this where like you, you'd be winning the whole game, you know, and in the fourth quarter, it's like, oh my God, we just run out the clock or I don't, you have that feeling and guys would choke a lot of time. And that's not to mention the other team is thinking the exact opposite. We got nothing to lose. We're going to hit them. We're going to take risks. We're going to do all the, you know, so that's why guys can win or teams can win at the last minute, even though they've been getting their ass kicked the whole, the whole game. Fights kind of like that too, but I don't know, fighters seem to have like more of a will, I don't know, for some reason, but either way, either way, I don't know. But the, the phrase that would always help me is if someone would just put in my ear and say, finish strong.

• 1:43:52Speaker 01

  Just say, finish strong, finish strong. Be like, yeah, it's almost like, or they'll say punch it through or something, you know, something like that, that indicates, don't let up at the end mentally, you know, just go, just keep pushing the way you've

• 1:44:04Jocko Willink?

  But that is a little bit different than getting distracted by what just happened.

• 1:44:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, but because they say, yeah, it is a little bit different, but in its essence.

• 1:44:11Jocko Willink?

  What's your critical role when you played football? What was it you were trying to do each play? Were you weren't you a receiver?

• 1:44:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:44:17Jocko Willink?

  Okay, so let's say you missed a catch that you should have caught. You had to be able to put that out of your head.

• 1:44:22Speaker 01

  Right, so it's just a mental state where it's like finish strong. It's finish strong in your mind, you know? So, yeah, don't worry about your in jujitsu. I'd get this all the time, man. When I'd win a match and then I'd win another one. You know, you gotta win like matches till the final. After two matches, I just start feeling this pressure. Like it's almost like, oh my, my two match win streak is about to come to an end. It's all like the pressure and then you win one more and then the pressure is even on more. It's weird. It's like, I wish I did, I wish I was done. It is weird. I would, but if someone would say something along the lines of finish strong, it would just cure the whole thing. Cause you're thinking about all these.

• 1:44:59Jocko Willink?

  What would mentally throw you off?

• 1:45:01Speaker 01

  I don't know, the pressure.

• 1:45:03Jocko Willink?

  Could somebody say something to you that would make you freak out even more?

• 1:45:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, oh, yeah.

• 1:45:08Jocko Willink?

  Like what? Would it freak you out more if someone said, oh, you got this? Or if someone says, hey, at least you made it this far. Would you then back off?

• 1:45:18Jocko Willink?

  It's hard when you're dealing with kids.

• 1:45:19Speaker 01

  It would.

• 1:45:19Jocko Willink?

  You know, like, like I got kids and you got kids too. But you know, when you got kids that are doing something competitive.

• 1:45:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:26Jocko Willink?

  Like jujitsu or wrestling. And let's say they're winning and, and you could tell them, hey, you've done good so far. Go out there and have fun, which is cool.

• 1:45:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:36Jocko Willink?

  Or you could say, hey, you need to focus more now, but because these people are going to be getting tougher.

• 1:45:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, both of those to me would throw me out. Cause when you say, just relax, you've made it this far. That tells them that it's okay to not to be to check out, you know? So it depends on what their state of mind is to go into that, that comment or to go into the situation where you say.

• 1:45:55Jocko Willink?

  Most of the time I feel like I want to tell people, either people I'm coaching. Well, no, I shouldn't say that. When I want to tell my kids, relax, go out there, have fun, go out there and have a good time.

• 1:46:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:46:07Jocko Willink?

  Because I think that is easier on their brains. And, and to what your point was earlier, when people let loose and they, they don't feel the pressure, they tend to perform better.

• 1:46:17Speaker 01

  Better, yeah. Yeah, I agree with that fully. But if it's like, if that's like, kind of the underlying attitude, like, relax, have fun, regardless of what match, first match, last finals match, whatever, then yes, I think so. But if it's like, come on, you got this, you can do this, you can do this, and then right when it gets to the final, then you say, okay, you made it this far, so it's like, relax.

• 1:46:39Jocko Willink?

  That's bad.

• 1:46:40Speaker 01

  I think it can be bad. Depends on how they take it, but if they take it like,

• 1:46:43Jocko Willink?

  I didn't say relax.

• 1:46:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:46:45Jocko Willink?

  I said, go out there and have, I go, go out there and do what you do. I say that a lot.

• 1:46:48Speaker 01

  Okay, so if you say you made it this far.

• 1:46:51Jocko Willink?

  MMA fights, I'd be like, hey, do what you do.

• 1:46:53Speaker 01

  That's good to say. If someone told me that, go do what you do, that would really be empowering.

• 1:46:58Jocko Willink?

  Go do what you do.

• 1:46:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's good stuff to say, to me. But anything to put pressure on me, like, if you do this, you win, like, you know, like, one more match and that's it. No, don't.

• 1:47:09Jocko Willink?

  But I'll tell you what's interesting, like with coaching MMA, if you would get a guy in, get it into a guy's head, do not get taken down, and they'd go in there with that, you'd be really hard to take that person down.

• 1:47:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:47:20Jocko Willink?

  And when, and you'd say, hey, as soon, if you get taken down, as soon, before you even get on the ground, you're getting back up. You get that people with that mindset going, and it'd be really hard for someone to take him down, hold him up, because they'd be panicking.

• 1:47:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:47:31Jocko Willink?

  They'd be basically panicking, you know.

• 1:47:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:47:33Jocko Willink?

  So.

• 1:47:35Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 1:47:38Jocko Willink?

  Here's a good one. And this is actually the last one, fittingly.

• 1:47:44Jocko Willink?

  Not engaging in any form of study will cause your mind to wander. This will result in your spirit becoming unfocused.

• 1:47:57Jocko Willink?

  And the amplification, there is nothing wrong with daydreaming, but if you study, your spirit will become focused on and shaped to deal with a certain thing. That shape will then become lost in turn. There is a song that goes, the drifting and becoming lost is what the mind does. It becomes your spirit. The mind of your spirit. Do not allow your mind to do this.

• 1:48:26Jocko Willink?

  And yeah, I think that that's that's something that we actually talk about all the time. In fact, that may be the very purpose of me doing everything that we do, which is, you know, studying and learning. And to go back to the question that Eric, the translator posed to me, can any of the rules in this book apply to modern warfare? As I said, not only do they apply to modern warfare, they apply to life. And the thing is, there's nothing really new here.

• 1:49:08Jocko Willink?

  Right? Just like an arm lock. There's nothing really new here. But that doesn't mean that there's nothing really new here. There's always something new. We sure, we've heard these lessons before, right? We've heard them from Dick Winters. We've heard them from Bob Hoffman. We've heard them from General Patton and Hackworth, and we heard them from Wooden Leg.

• 1:49:32Jocko Willink?

  And I said this on the first podcast that we did. The first podcast that we did, I said, you know what to do.

• 1:49:45Jocko Willink?

  You know to be balanced. And you know to work out and you know not to be gluttonous with food and you know you shouldn't sleep late. And you know you should keep things clean and organized. And you know that your struggles now will be rewarded in the future. So you must endure.

• 1:50:09Jocko Willink?

  Endure. Endure the hardship, endure the suffering, endure the pain of discipline.

• 1:50:20Jocko Willink?

  Endure the pain of discipline so that in the future you can have the reward.

• 1:50:27Jocko Willink?

  And we know what that reward is. The reward for discipline is freedom.

• 1:50:36Jocko Willink?

  And I think that is all I've got for tonight.

• 1:50:43Jocko Willink?

  So, Echo.

• 1:50:47Jocko Willink?

  Speaking of rewards and freedom and trying to get better.

• 1:50:56Jocko Willink?

  Do you have any suggestions on maybe some ways to get better for people?

• 1:51:01Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:51:02Jocko Willink?

  Ways that might also at the same time simultaneously support this podcast if people want to.

• 1:51:08Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:51:08Jocko Willink?

  Do something like that.

• 1:51:09Speaker 01

  If they want to. Also, I think it is important and beneficial to add that, you know, when you endure the suffering, pain, that's metaphors for the most part. Sometimes it's real pain.

• 1:51:21Jocko Willink?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:51:22Speaker 01

  And suffering.

• 1:51:23Jocko Willink?

  Real, real.

• 1:51:26Speaker 01

  But you do that enough and you get used to it and to the point where you kind of like require it in a way, like you kind of want it, like, you know how I used to go on like, you know, like a strict diet? And I'd be hungry a lot, but at the same time, the diet would be really effective with a good workout program. And then, so when I go off the program, you kind of, you know, you feel kind of almost like, for lack of a better term, like toxic, like, oh, I'm just a sack of, you know?

• 1:51:55Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:56Speaker 01

  And you almost, I kind of miss that hunger and the, you know, the, because you kind of associate the hunger that you always have with like being in good shape and, and perform. It kind of like, that's an example of like how it can be, you know? You know, like.

• 1:52:10Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, no, that's it.

• 1:52:11Speaker 01

  Eating a lot, I don't know, it's weird.

• 1:52:12Jocko Willink?

  You don't even have to amplify that.

• 1:52:13Speaker 01

  Get used to it. Yeah.

• 1:52:15Jocko Willink?

  Like when you're on the program.

• 1:52:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, it kind of feels good that you're on the program. You're suffering for sure. There's some quote unquote suffering there, but it feels good, especially when you do.

• 1:52:24Jocko Willink?

  You know what's funny? When you think about the opposite of that, which is when you're off the program?

• 1:52:30Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:52:30Jocko Willink?

  And you feel like crap.

• 1:52:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:52:34Jocko Willink?

  And yet, what do you do to make yourself feel better? What do you do? Instead of going on the program, instead you go to the you go to the sleeve Oreos.

• 1:52:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:52:43Jocko Willink?

  That's not the answer.

• 1:52:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, cuz that's like the pleasure.

• 1:52:45Jocko Willink?

  Wrong answer.

• 1:52:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:52:47Jocko Willink?

  That's the that's the instant gratification.

• 1:52:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:52:49Jocko Willink?

  Right?

• 1:52:50Speaker 01

  It's weird how that works.

• 1:52:50Jocko Willink?

  Opposite of struggling now.

• 1:52:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:52:54Jocko Willink?

  You're you're you're not enduring now. You're not facing the pain of discipline now.

• 1:53:00Jocko Willink?

  You're looking for a short term reward. So that's why that's why I said I said in the book, I said in the book, the field manual, right? Like when you're on the path, it's it's easier to stay on the path. And when you fall off the path, man, people, people just gets they go to the downward spiral.

• 1:53:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like you fall for the trick. And as I mentioned, this is a trick, your mind's trick. So like,

• 1:53:21Jocko Willink?

  You like that.

• 1:53:22Speaker 01

  You're getting it is, man. It's mind games. You know, when you you fall off the path, you say when you feel like crap cuz you're off the program. And the fact that you're off the program, aside from just your physical physicality, you feel like crap. So you gotta alleviate that feeling. So you go to something that's gonna give you pleasure. But guess what? Wrong pleasure. You went short term when you needed long term, you know? So that's what you do.

• 1:53:45Jocko Willink?

  That is a good a good thing. I do that when, let's say, I don't feel. I've been traveling, been eating crap. The way to get back on, the way to feel good again is just to hit yourself. I mean, get some.

• 1:53:59Speaker 01

  It's true.

• 1:54:00Jocko Willink?

  Get some. Do good. Have a good couple base. Like, you know, in the in the field manual, I've got these various workouts. And there's some of those in there that are just core. Not core as in abs, cuz we call it gut, but but core programs that are fundamental.

• 1:54:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:54:20Jocko Willink?

  And I kind of know where I'm at on them. And even if I'm not gonna go in there and do a record performance, it'll put me back on track. It'll it'll it'll clean my system mentally and physically.

• 1:54:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:54:35Jocko Willink?

  And that's good.

• 1:54:36Speaker 01

  Bro, I used to do this thing where, um. You know, if you're you have a girlfriend, you get in a fight or something like that, or they break up with you, whatever, whatever. You know, something that makes you in a bad mood for whatever reason. I used to go to the gym and do either like shoulders or chest workout, something that would give like a really, really hard painful pump. You know, that kind of like, I don't know, 12, 15 reps, like a minute in between, do like eight sets of those. Like just massively pumped. For some reason, I just feel way better.

• 1:55:06Jocko Willink?

  That's the same thing. That's what I'm talking about. Yeah, the way if you can give yourself, for me, you got your, you got some workouts that are just fundamental. I don't know what, there's probably a name for like.

• 1:55:18Speaker 01

  Medicine.

• 1:55:18Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, medicine. Yeah, medicine. Some medicine workouts. You gotta have some of those medicine workouts that just put you back on the back on the path.

• 1:55:27Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:55:27Jocko Willink?

  And then you know what? Do a fast. Do 24 hours. That's bold right there. Yeah, do 24 hours. You feel, you feel good. I'm telling you. You feel good.

• 1:55:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'll do like 15 now, actually pretty often too. And you're right. Strangely, you're right. Yeah.

• 1:55:45Jocko Willink?

  I just read another article. Some big, big. I read two articles because people, people tweet them to me.

• 1:55:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:55:52Jocko Willink?

  One of them was about intermittent fasting. Well, guess what? It's good for you.

• 1:55:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:55:57Jocko Willink?

  And then the other one was about this whole depletion of will is not true.

• 1:56:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, I think.

• 1:56:04Jocko Willink?

  Big lie. I was right. The scientists were wrong.

• 1:56:07Speaker 01

  What they were saying, I think with what you're saying, I think there's like a slight.

• 1:56:11Jocko Willink?

  No, no, no.

• 1:56:12Speaker 01

  So you're saying it's straight up wrong what they're saying.

• 1:56:13Jocko Willink?

  No, no, no. There's, I just read an article today that it's wrong.

• 1:56:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:56:17Jocko Willink?

  That this idea of the depletion of, you know, if you, if you have to resist this chocolate chip cookie, then within in 20 minutes, you won't be able to resist the cake because you just can't resist that much. It's a lie. It's then there's proving now that it's not true.

• 1:56:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:56:34Jocko Willink?

  Not true.

• 1:56:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. I feel like that's a psychological state. So it might vary from individual.

• 1:56:40Jocko Willink?

  But what I'm saying is if you, if you're on the program.

• 1:56:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:56:44Jocko Willink?

  And you had some medicine in the morning.

• 1:56:46Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:56:47Jocko Willink?

  I'm telling you, it's easier to hold the line. The more you hold the line, the easier it is to hold the line. That's the truth.

• 1:56:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:56:54Jocko Willink?

  That's the truth.

• 1:56:55Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:56:57Jocko Willink?

  Get some.

• 1:56:58Speaker 01

  Speaking of holding the line and the truth, by the way.

• 1:57:04Speaker 01

  Jocko has some supplements.

• 1:57:07Speaker 01

  Jocko's supplements. Krill oil, the main one, and joint warfare. So joint warfare, glucosamine, and chondroitin.

• 1:57:15Jocko Willink?

  And curcumin, which is the other, there's, it's not just glucosamine and chondroitin.

• 1:57:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, this curcumin.

• 1:57:23Jocko Willink?

  Yes.

• 1:57:25Speaker 01

  What is that?

• 1:57:25Jocko Willink?

  It's more goodness for the joints.

• 1:57:28Speaker 01

  Some stuff to wage warfare against joint inflammation, pain, degeneration. Yeah, so, and that's a big deal, because again, I'm gonna say, I said it before, but I think this is critical. I mean, you know, I'm sure there's like supplements that'll help you build your muscles, if you're into building, I'm sure there is, but really,

• 1:57:50Speaker 01

  if you can maintain your joints, especially if you're jujitsu pushing weights, any kind of like,

• 1:57:58Speaker 01

  so I like elbow.

• 1:57:59Jocko Willink?

  Dynamic movement.

• 1:58:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, because your joints take those, that brunt, and they degenerate over time.

• 1:58:05Jocko Willink?

  Oh, they do? Is that what's happening to you? Because I'm over here not degenerating, I'm on joint warfare.

• 1:58:09Speaker 01

  You're straight up generating, huh? Yeah, no, no, I dig it. And the, this is one of the krill oil thing. I'm not embarrassed, because it's kind of a funny story at my expense in a little bit. It's not funny, funny, but it is that I was like, krill oil, to my father-in-law.

• 1:58:26Jocko Willink?

  Now you know the truth.

• 1:58:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm like over here pushing krill oil. Like in life, I mean, you know, Brian, his name is Brian, remember we went to the retreat in Maine? For Brian, the black belt that came from New Hampshire guys? So I kind of keep contact with him. He's like, he's like, hey, do you have any, like, what's the cool supplements or whatever? I was like, bro, you know, and I sent him some, some of mine. And he was, I didn't get the report back, that was like the other day, but nonetheless, in life, I'm straight up pushing it. Like, tell Greg about it all the time. I don't think, I don't think he has, maybe I gave him some, I don't know. But it's like, you know, can you get benefits for something? And then you're like pushing it on other people. Some people do it with.

• 1:59:04Jocko Willink?

  Braggadgingly.

• 1:59:08Speaker 01

  Sure, just various things, you know, books, music. Why do we do that with music? Like if you don't like my, you know, like I'll be like, hey, listen to this song. It's the best song. And then like, you don't like it and I'm actually mad at you. Or you're mad at me because you don't like it. Why is that?

• 1:59:25Jocko Willink?

  Because I just don't like your music.

• 1:59:26Speaker 01

  I know, bro. But I think we kind of equated to our identity, you know, in a way. That's kind of what I do with Cruel Oil. It's part of my identity now. It's part of my joint's identity. I can tell you that. And joint warfare. Good ones also. Oh wait.

• 1:59:42Speaker 01

  I didn't tell you where you can get this joint warfare and super cruel. originmaine.com. Click on the top to the labs. Actually, it's on the front page, too. It's on Jocko's store too, by the way, jockostore.com. But yeah, that's where you can get it if you want it. If you want it.

• 1:59:56Jocko Willink?

  A lot of people have been asking for subscription.

• 2:00:01Speaker 01

  Like a recurring?

• 2:00:02Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, so you just can get it every month.

• 2:00:03Speaker 01

  That's what it should be.

• 2:00:04Jocko Willink?

  I know, I know. We'll get it set up.

• 2:00:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, because you get to the last three pills or even six, you take the three, like they only have three left. I gotta take this tomorrow. After tomorrow, you know, two day shipping, unless you got an overnight shipping situation.

• 2:00:19Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, there's this, you don't want to do that to yourself.

• 2:00:21Speaker 01

  No, you don't. You actually for real don't.

• 2:00:23Jocko Willink?

  So we'll get that going on.

• 2:00:25Speaker 01

  Yes, good idea. Thank you, Jocko and Pete. Also, there's some good geez on there. Jocko is a gee. Jocko's a rash card. We'll start with that. American hands. I've worn it many times. Can I talk about 19% improvement in performance? I got tapped out by Andy, so so far, no. Got tapped out by you too, so maybe. Jury's still out.

• 2:00:55Jocko Willink?

  But that's not any different than normal, is it?

• 2:00:57Speaker 01

  Right, yes. But did I, could I, could I resist 19? I'm just saying the jury's still out. I can't confirm really.

• 2:01:03Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, but, but if you remember, because you remember, I was wearing one of our rash cards.

• 2:01:12Speaker 01

  Small action, big reaction.

• 2:01:14Jocko Willink?

  And I kind of got after it a little bit.

• 2:01:19Speaker 01

  So really, in theory, you're nineteen plus and mining nineteen plus kind of canceled itself out.

• 2:01:24Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 2:01:25Speaker 01

  Really?

• 2:01:25Jocko Willink?

  But I felt like maybe if you got nineteen, I felt like that day I had like twenty six percent.

• 2:01:30Speaker 01

  Oh dang, twenty six. Yeah. You were bringing it like you had twenty six. Cause you typically don't wear that, right? You don't really wear rash cards that much.

• 2:01:38Jocko Willink?

  You weren't happy on the final guillotine.

• 2:01:42Speaker 01

  No, I think it was a Cobra.

• 2:01:43Jocko Willink?

  You literally said, I saw that coming.

• 2:01:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:01:48Jocko Willink?

  And that was one of those comments that was meant to kind of deflate my victory.

• 2:01:56Jocko Willink?

  You know, like you saw it coming and it was so obvious and it was just like you, I just got lucky and blah, blah, blah. And I just, I just said, yeah, definitely. I was really telegraphed that one.

• 2:02:06Speaker 01

  I didn't say you got lucky.

• 2:02:07Jocko Willink?

  I can't believe how pathetic it was.

• 2:02:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, this, you want me to give you a breakdown of your guillotine? Cobra, which I think is even more so than the guillotine. Like you have such a good way to like, get it. You're one of those guys that like, you're probably walking like right now, you're thinking about guillotine right now.

• 2:02:23Jocko Willink?

  Yes.

• 2:02:24Speaker 01

  That's what I think. That's what it feels like.

• 2:02:26Jocko Willink?

  A lot.

• 2:02:26Speaker 01

  So it's like, when you go for it, it just lands perfectly. It's not the kind where you know, um.

• 2:02:32Jocko Willink?

  Not many adjustments are getting made.

• 2:02:34Speaker 01

  Nope. Yep. No adjustments. So it's gotten to the point over literally like what? A day, like almost a decade of training with you and that thing getting sunk in that efficiently on my own neck.

• 2:02:45Jocko Willink?

  It almost washed it there.

• 2:02:48Speaker 01

  What's funny, you're not that far from the truth. It's like my body like knows like, hey, we've been here before. That's what my brain is almost like. I can feel my brain as a separate entity telling my body.

• 2:02:59Jocko Willink?

  Sometimes if I get you in a guillotine and you go crazy trying to defend it and then like, and you'll get out. And the next one, I'll be like, he's going down.

• 2:03:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's like, man, I don't want that beef again. Cause what, what, what I, what I had to do to get out of that first one. And it's like, bro, I can't do another one of those. Yeah. It's not worth it. That's exactly what it is. And I think that's how my whole body reacts when I feel it gets sunk in. It's kind of like, oh man, this again. We've been down this road. Same outcome. You know, my body's used to that outcome. So it just kind of accommodates it. That's what it feels like.

• 2:03:31Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:32Speaker 01

  And I think that's part of what I meant by it's like, I saw that coming.

• 2:03:35Jocko Willink?

  I think your body is okay with me getting you.

• 2:03:37Speaker 01

  I think so too. I don't like the fact that it's like that, by the way.

• 2:03:41Jocko Willink?

  Jack.

• 2:03:42Speaker 01

  At least, yeah, I think, I think talking about it might help. Or it might straight up not.

• 2:03:47Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, rash guards geez made in America, which is awesome. So that's awesome.

• 2:03:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:03:54Jocko Willink?

  Everyone should know that.

• 2:03:55Speaker 01

  And they make them like make them make them.

• 2:03:57Jocko Willink?

  Yes.

• 2:03:58Speaker 01

  They don't like ship in some stuff.

• 2:04:00Jocko Willink?

  Make.

• 2:04:00Speaker 01

  And then, hey, guys, okay, are we starting to make yet? Even though it's been, you know, yeah, they make or make it from the thread. And the gee, the gee's good. The gee's good. I think the video is coming out.

• 2:04:11Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. It's out.

• 2:04:12Speaker 01

  The origin.

• 2:04:13Jocko Willink?

  It's out.

• 2:04:14Speaker 01

  Mean video. Megan.

• 2:04:17Speaker 01

  I got Megan confused with, uh, with Amanda, by the way. Whole long story. I won't go into it right now. Nonetheless, video is out. Megan made the video. It's a good one. Actually, you kind of made the video too. You're in that one.

• 2:04:31Jocko Willink?

  I understand that. I didn't make anything.

• 2:04:33Speaker 01

  Nonetheless. Uh, Jocko's gee is out. Other gee's on origin. All good. I got two other ones. So three origin geez all together. Me. It's only geez all everywhere, I think.

• 2:04:47Speaker 01

  Unless someone else can make the own, their own material in America and, you know, provide the same everything, then hey, maybe, maybe not, but just seeing as of right now, that's how it is. Also.

• 2:04:59Speaker 01

  Kettlebells. And I'm gonna keep you updated on my kettlebell situation. I'm addicted to them. I'm addicted to them, collecting and doing them. So I got one more. I got the Cyclops from on it.

• 2:05:10Jocko Willink?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:05:11Speaker 01

  The designer one. No, no, uh, what do you call it? The regulation, regular ones? None of those. Anyway, Cyclops, I think is forty something pounds. I only got one. I'm getting after it with that one too. Anyway. The good thing about these is. They are balanced. Cause a lot of times, and from what I hear, I don't know, but from what I hear, like a lot of the designer ones, they're not balanced. See what I'm saying? Anyway, these are balanced and that's the ones I use and.

• 2:05:41Speaker 01

  I'm addicted to the workout. Start slow with these when you do it, though. Are you still doing a lot of kettlebells?

• 2:05:47Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I do a decent amount of kettlebells. I was doing some Turkish getups the other day.

• 2:05:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I didn't get that. I thought I was gonna get really into Turkish getups. But I did it a few times and just it didn't, it didn't stick. You know, you know how stuff just sticks, even though it's cool. You know what it was? I did it with the thirty-five pound one, then I did it with a fifty-four pound one. And I was like, dang, this is a good exercise, hard. And then I went online to look up exercises. And then there's ones with guys doing it with a hundred eighty-five pounds, like doing it. And maybe I just got discouraged.

• 2:06:18Jocko Willink?

  I got encouraged when I see that.

• 2:06:19Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah. You take it as like a challenge.

• 2:06:21Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, maybe my whole outlook is different. Anyway, when you do these kettlebells, if you want the cool ones. To me kettlebells are dope, but if you want them extra dope, you go to onnit.com slash Jocko, get your kettlebells there. Just look at them. They got light ones, heavy ones. I say start light, but hey, whatever your level is, you know, get them. Also, when you get your copy of, what is the, the translated?

• 2:06:51Jocko Willink?

  Hundred Rules of War.

• 2:06:54Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:06:54Jocko Willink?

  By Boku Den.

• 2:06:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:06:56Jocko Willink?

  Which I'm pronouncing wrong, sorry.

• 2:06:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, see, and that's really, and okay, so I put these books, all these books, if you didn't know already, I'm gonna say it again. I put all the books on our website, JacoPodcast.com. And this is for this very reason. Jocko doesn't know how to pronounce some of this stuff.

• 2:07:12Jocko Willink?

  No.

• 2:07:12Speaker 01

  Especially the Japanese stuff, you know, he comes to me for help, I help. It's not a smooth process is what I'm saying. So I tried to smooth it out a little bit. JacoPodcast.com on the top says, books from the episodes. Click on there. Look, this is episode one oh one. Boom, from episode one oh one, the Hundred Rules of War.

• 2:07:33Speaker 01

  Even though there's only ninety-seven of them.

• 2:07:34Jocko Willink?

  And if you want to get some other book, you can still click through.

• 2:07:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:07:40Jocko Willink?

  And support the podcast.

• 2:07:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:07:41Jocko Willink?

  Even if you buy a book that is completely off of what we would normally talk about.

• 2:07:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, like for, like, what?

• 2:07:50Jocko Willink?

  I don't know, something that's not about war.

• 2:07:53Speaker 01

  The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe.

• 2:07:55Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, if you go to buy that book.

• 2:07:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:07:58Jocko Willink?

  You can just click.

• 2:07:59Speaker 01

  It still supports the podcast. It doesn't have to be the, but, but when you buy it, yeah, just click.

• 2:08:03Jocko Willink?

  And even if you're not buying a book, even if you're buying golf clubs.

• 2:08:06Speaker 01

  Golf clubs, duct tape, lawnmower.

• 2:08:11Speaker 01

  Grocery bag holders. Even though I don't recommend that stuff.

• 2:08:17Speaker 01

  If you carry grocery bags, you carry them with your hands, both hands, all of them too, by the way. Anyway, yeah, click through there. So on our website, jockopodcast.com, good way to support also. Subscribe to the podcast if you haven't already on iTunes, Stitcher, Google Play.

• 2:08:34Speaker 01

  Spotify, is that a subscribe? I don't use Spotify.

• 2:08:37Jocko Willink?

  Spotify is not, you can't get, I don't, I don't think you can get it, but there's a bunch, any podcasting platform. I don't think Spotify is one of them. We had requests for Spotify because then you could play it on Alexa. But I can play, yeah, I can play on Alexa right now. You can say, Alexa, play the latest Jocko podcast.

• 2:08:53Speaker 01

  Actually, in, not to split hairs, but it's called Amazon Echo. Alexa is just the name you say.

• 2:08:59Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, but Alexa is what you said.

• 2:09:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:09:01Jocko Willink?

  So that's what I said.

• 2:09:02Speaker 01

  No, you said you can get it on Alexa. So it's like technically the difference.

• 2:09:08Speaker 01

  I just want us to go in correct and insane and doing the right thing. That's all. Nonetheless, subscribe if you haven't already. Is, so put it this way, I'm not saying subscribe, I'm saying subscribing is a good way to support. Also on YouTube, subscribe to the YouTube channel, put some videos on there, excerpts, not as many excerpts as I did last week, this week. Cause I got, I learned this new video thing. We, we talked about it earlier. I won't go into it, but I,

• 2:09:37Speaker 01

  it's pretty technical, but I wound up getting like obsessed with it. So like for, I think it was like 11 hours a day for three days. I'm making this clip that's like three seconds long.

• 2:09:48Jocko Willink?

  Today.

• 2:09:49Speaker 01

  So I didn't get to the excerpts is what I'm saying, but as a result, I think there's, I think the next video that I release is gonna have some new things to it. Might be something that only I'm noticing, maybe, maybe not, but nonetheless, that's gonna be how it is. Either way, the point there is subscribe to YouTube. It's a good way to support.

• 2:10:12Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I want to do a YouTube Live. Figure out how to do that.

• 2:10:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's not that hard. Whoa. So let's do it. Why? Just a YouTube Live or random? Like a Facebook Live but on YouTube?

• 2:10:24Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Cause I think it'd be cool to be stored on YouTube instead of stored on Facebook, right?

• 2:10:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it's just a matter of, I guess it doesn't matter ultimately, it's just a video.

• 2:10:34Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, but if it's a, if it's stored on, on YouTube, people can go back and be reading it and whatever and wa- sorry, watching it. If it's on Facebook, it's way buried in some random.

• 2:10:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, your, your feed. What do you call it?

• 2:10:47Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:10:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, timeline, whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:10:52Jocko Willink?

  Maybe I'll talk to Zucks on that one.

• 2:10:56Speaker 01

  Yeah. Nonetheless, YouTube, that's a good one to subscribe. Got some other videos aside from just the video version of this podcast. That's the good, that's the, the main reason, I think, to subscribe if you're interested in that kind of stuff. And you can sign, you know, you can get a notification if you want. You don't need it, but you can get one. Also, Jocko's store. It's called Jocko Store.

• 2:11:17Speaker 01

  jockostore.com. Got some new stuff on there. Straight up. Rash guards. Hoodies are up. I know, I've been saying it, but they're up though, is what I'm saying.

• 2:11:27Jocko Willink?

  Hats.

• 2:11:28Speaker 01

  Got some hats. I, I, I'm putting beanies on there.

• 2:11:32Jocko Willink?

  Oh, yes.

• 2:11:33Speaker 01

  That's, that's good, right?

• 2:11:35Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, okay. I hope they're thick beanies.

• 2:11:37Speaker 01

  They're, uh, I don't know, regular? I didn't know there's, no, the, I've been, you know, doing some research. This is a good beanie.

• 2:11:44Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 2:11:45Speaker 01

  From all, I kind of extrapolated all the, you know, the advice on, online, and these are the good ones. Um, also some new rash guards. Okay, the new rash guard is

• 2:11:57Speaker 01

  a rash guard that says, small action on one side, big reaction on the other side. When I wore it for the first time, uh, Keeling

• 2:12:07Speaker 01

  Taylor

• 2:12:09Speaker 01

  said, he, he didn't know, he didn't know the layers, but he saw it and he was like, the essence of jujitsu. I was like, oh, cause it is, right? Small action, big reaction. It's what we're hoping for, anyway.

• 2:12:21Jocko Willink?

  Interesting Keeling, Judo Keeling.

• 2:12:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, he knew, he knows about the way.

• 2:12:26Speaker 01

  Also, uh, some women's stuff on there, which is cool, I think. Uh, some patches on there, shirts. I'm gonna, I have a new shirt coming out. I don't, I don't have a new shirt. You have a new shirt coming out.

• 2:12:38Jocko Willink?

  Do I know what it is?

• 2:12:39Speaker 01

  Nope.

• 2:12:40Jocko Willink?

  Oh, interesting.

• 2:12:40Speaker 01

  Not yet. A, a lot of times I'll get input from the online people, from the people, and I kinda, you know, I, I love, most of the time it's like one-off things, you know, like, oh, I heard Jocko say this one thing, this is one time back, I really liked it, it would make a great shirt, kinda thing, and then, although they're usually right a lot of times, I'm thinking, hmm, maybe that might not translate into.

• 2:13:01Jocko Willink?

  You're real picky and choosy is what I'm hearing.

• 2:13:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. Put it this way, a lot of people have to hit me with it.

• 2:13:06Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 2:13:07Speaker 01

  And this was one of those. I've actually mentioned it before. It's called Back to the Book.

• 2:13:12Jocko Willink?

  Oh.

• 2:13:12Speaker 01

  I think it's coming out.

• 2:13:13Jocko Willink?

  Oh, okay.

• 2:13:14Speaker 01

  Anyway, that one's coming out soon. Jocko Store, jockostore.com.

• 2:13:20Speaker 01

  Take a look at the stuff on there. If you see something you like, get something. Also, Psychological Warfare, on all of our, this is what Psychological Warfare is, on all of our

• 2:13:32Speaker 01

  journeys, I'm going back to journey.

• 2:13:35Jocko Willink?

  Someone requested something the other day and it was actually better than Campaign or Journey, but I forget what it was.

• 2:13:40Speaker 01

  Dang, so it was better, just not that much better.

• 2:13:42Jocko Willink?

  No, it was better, but I can't remember it. I see a lot of stuff.

• 2:13:45Speaker 01

  That's true. You do see a lot of stuff. Well, on our Campaign Against Weakness Journey, every once in a while we'll run into roadblocks, points of weakness, hopefully less than more, more times than not, we don't.

• 2:14:00Jocko Willink?

  We know what you're trying to say.

• 2:14:01Speaker 01

  You see what I'm saying?

• 2:14:02Jocko Willink?

  Not very clear.

• 2:14:03Speaker 01

  Hopefully not very often, but one, the un-infrequent time comes where you run into those weaknesses.

• 2:14:12Jocko Willink?

  You said un-infrequent time, but it's cool. We know what you mean, bro.

• 2:14:16Speaker 01

  The not frequent, yeah, the rare time that you run into weaknesses. Do not worry because Psychological Warfare is an album with tracks that helps you right through that. Most situations, pretty much all situations, really. Waking up early, skipping workouts, procrastination, staying on the program diet wise, all this stuff, a lot of stuff, munching tracks on there. And it's Jocko telling you pragmatically ways that you can practice, wait, practical, right? Practical, meaning you can practice these things. It's not just some philosophical slash inspirational stuff.

• 2:14:52Jocko Willink?

  I would say do.

• 2:14:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's more do, practical. It's kind of the tame word for it. But nonetheless, practical advice coming directly from Jocko, directly into your ear on why you shouldn't give in to these weaknesses. It's like a little spot in your campaign. That's what psychological warfare is. It's a good one. It's a real good one.

• 2:15:12Jocko Willink?

  By the way, that was the number one spoken word albums on iTunes for about nine months, and it finally got beaten out by another album called This One Goes Freedom Field Manual, which is, people keep asking me, it's available as an album with tracks on iTunes, Amazon Music, Google Play, and other MP3 platforms. Also on Amazon, you can get Jocko White Tea. What's good about Jocko White Tea is if you drink Jocko White Tea, you are guaranteed 100% to be able to deadlift 8,000 pounds minimum, minimum. I don't care, what's your body weight? 125? Cool. 8,000 pound deadlift. So with a guarantee like that, we're looking pretty good. Try it

• 2:15:55Jocko Willink?

  out. There's some books, Way the Warrior Kid. By the way, I just finished Way the Warrior Kid, book number two.

• 2:16:02Speaker 01

  What, the whole thing or the draft?

• 2:16:04Jocko Willink?

  The draft. I mean, there's gonna be some edits.

• 2:16:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, the story is done.

• 2:16:07Jocko Willink?

  The story is completely done. It's a good story. I, my nephew read it. And he said, it's better than the first one.

• 2:16:17Speaker 01

  That's saying a lot, because usually the second one is-

• 2:16:19Jocko Willink?

  He left me a little message. And you know what his message said? Hey, Uncle Jocko. That's what it said. And he's, he's in fifth grade. So it's a pretty accurate assessment, we're assuming, from him.

• 2:16:29Speaker 01

  Good case study.

• 2:16:31Jocko Willink?

  But the book number one is out right now. And it is the book that you wish you had when you were a kid. I wish I had it when I was a kid. Didn't have it. No one had it. Hadn't written it yet. Hadn't learned the lessons. So if you want to give a kid a better life. Get in this book. Also, Extreme Ownership. Check it out. New edition is coming out. Matter of fact, let me rephrase that. New edition is out.

• 2:17:01Jocko Willink?

  It is available right now. It has a new foreword in it where we talk about kind of what we've seen since the book came out. It has color pictures in it. Ooh, new color pictures. It has Echo's name in it. Why is Echo's name in it? Echo's name in it is in it because we took Q and A from the podcast about leadership.

• 2:17:24Jocko Willink?

  And put the really important questions and answers in there so you can refer back to them without having to go through a hundred and one podcasts and find the one question that you want to get. No, now you can find it in the book. Also, it's got a new cover on it, which is black. More cool. And you know, because the Q and A is from you, I kind of need to thank everyone because this book is not just Leif and me anymore. Now it's Leif and me and Echo and everyone that ask questions and help with the podcast by asking questions. So thanks to you all for the new version of our new book.

• 2:18:09Jocko Willink?

  Also, The Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual is now available worldwide.

• 2:18:16Jocko Willink?

  And if you've got questions, this book has answers. If you're wondering what workout should I do? What martial art should I train in? How do I know what a good jiu jitsu gym is? What should I eat? What should I do when I'm injured? What should I do if I don't feel like working out? What should I do if something bad happens? How should I overcome failure? If you've got those kind of questions, this book has the answers. Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual. Get it for yourself and get it for anyone else that might want answers to these questions. The book is not normal. It's not normal. I know it's not normal because you know why? I'm not normal. No, the book is it's black and the book it only has a black cover.

• 2:18:58Jocko Willink?

  It has black pages as well. So some people don't like that. And you know what I say? Don't read it. Yeah. If you don't, if you don't want to read that, cool, don't read it. And as I said, if you want to get the book on audio, it is not on audible. It is on MP3 as an album with tracks. You can get it through iTunes, Amazon Music and Google Play. That way you can listen to it as an album with tracks. This is a book that you don't sit. It's not a story.

• 2:19:30Jocko Willink?

  It's not a story. You might want to listen to one section of it at a different time. You might be saying, hey, I need to listen to a section about destroyer mode. Right? How do I get into destroyer mode? One day you might want to read about the fear of failure. Or you listen to the fear of failure. One day you might need to hear sugar coated lies one day. You might want to hear about the warpath. So when you have it as an album with tracks, you can listen to it in whatever order you want. You can set it as your alarm. You can put it in your playlist, that kind of thing, which you can't do with a lame audible book. So that's that. Also, if you like the leadership principles that we talk about on this podcast,

• 2:20:13Jocko Willink?

  and you want to get them for your team or business, we have a leadership and management consulting company. It's the premier leadership and management consulting company. Did I say that? Yes, I did. Echelon Front, me, Leif, JP, Dave Burke. If you want us to come and work with your company and get your leadership aligned and get your leadership into destroyer mode, email [email protected]. And if you have any more questions or answers for us or something that you want to tell us, you can find us up on the interwebs on Twitter,

• 2:20:56Jocko Willink?

  on Instagram and on the fishy ball. Echo is at Echo Charles and I am at Jocko Willink and to the soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines who are overseas right now.

• 2:21:13Jocko Willink?

  Defending our nation and our freedom. Thank you for your sacrifice and to the families of those men and women. Thanks for supporting your warriors while they are deployed.

• 2:21:29Jocko Willink?

  That is one of the hardest jobs in the world and thank you for doing it. And to the police, law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics and other first responders. Thank you for protecting us here at home. You do not get thanked enough. I'm thanking you right now.

• 2:21:47Jocko Willink?

  And for the rest of you out there. Maneuvering through life, trying to get the upper hand on the enemy or the competitor, or trying to get the upper hand and get control of yourself.

• 2:22:06Jocko Willink?

  You know what to do. You know what action to take. You know how to win.

• 2:22:15Jocko Willink?

  So get out there. And get after it.

• 2:22:21Jocko Willink?

  And so until next time, this is Echo and Jocko. Out.