Pod Insights IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson Accept Your Parents’ Limits with Bruce Springsteen About this episode Legendary musician Bruce Springsteen joins Michelle (Craig is out sick!) to answer a question from a listener who is struggling with her relationship to her father. Bruce talks about therapy and how it helped him become a better father to his kids. Michelle talks about the joy of having an adult relationship with her children, and Bruce shares advice on how to accept the limits of other people. Plus! A special musical interlude from Michelle.
Have a question you want answered? Write to us at imopod.com http://imopod.com.
See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Speaker 00 I loved my father deeply throughout my entire life. Throughout the last 10 years of his life, he was able to see my children.
0:07 Michelle Obama? Mm-hmm.
0:08 Speaker 00 And we had one interaction that made the world of difference to me. I was, Patty and I were gonna have our first, first son. And daddy came down, visited me one day, and, and we were living in Los Angeles. He just knocks on my door, this is my dad, you know, doesn't tell me he's coming. Comes down from San Francisco. He comes in, wants a beer. It's 11:00 in the morning, I give him a beer, I take one for myself. And he looks at me and says, hey, you know, you've really been very good to us.
0:43 Michelle Obama? Mm.
0:45 Speaker 00 I says, yeah, Pa, it was, it's my pleasure, you know, it was, it's why you got us the house. I wasn't very good to you.
0:53 Michelle Obama? Uh-huh.
0:54 Speaker 00 He looks at me, and I said, well, you did the best you could.
1:05 Michelle Obama? This episode of IMO is brought to you by Progressive Insurance and Pine-Sol. Well, I have the special honor of having one of my dear friends join me for this conversation. He needs no introduction, cuz everybody knows this dude.
1:29 Michelle Obama? 20-time Grammy winner, Hall of Fame, all that, blah-da-da-da-da. The one and only Bruce Springsteen, thank you for, for being here and taking time off your tour. You're in the middle of touring.
1:42 Speaker 00 It is my pleasure.
1:44 Michelle Obama? Yeah, yeah. Last time I saw you was onstage in Barcelona.
1:50 Speaker 00 That's right, and you did an excellent job as a backup singer, may I say.
1:54 Michelle Obama? Say that one more time, just for the record.
1:56 Speaker 00 You did an excellent job as a backup singer.
2:00 Michelle Obama? That was the coolest.
2:01 Speaker 00 And tambourinas.
2:02 Michelle Obama? The tambour, I, I think I worked the tambourine pretty good.
2:05 Speaker 00 You did.
2:06 Michelle Obama? That was a surreal experience, being onstage with you, singing our hearts out. That was, that was a real, a lot of fun. And I told you about this, like, you play for three hours.
2:22 Speaker 00 What else can I do?
2:23 Michelle Obama? I, you know, you could do two, you could do, but you played for three hours non-stop. Non-stop. I mean, you don't talk much.
2:35 Speaker 00 No.
2:35 Michelle Obama? You, you sing through and move through the whole thing. It's incredible to watch you perform.
2:43 Speaker 00 We put the pedal to the metal from first note to last.
2:46 Michelle Obama? Yeah, and blow everybody out of the water. And the other thing I love is just the diversity of your crowds. I mean, you've got folks in their eighties and ten-year-olds singing every note, every lyric.
3:02 Speaker 00 That's pretty, it's amazing, you know, and, uh, what can I say, with my best friends every night and been doing it for 50 years with the same guys. That's, that's a magic act right there.
3:15 Michelle Obama? You know, it, it's, there's a little bit of magic, but there's a little bit of truth. Um, and look, everybody knows you as the great Bruce Springsteen, but you are truly one of my favorite people as a person.
3:32 Speaker 00 Ah, kid, kid.
3:34 Michelle Obama? You know, I mean, I, I say this behind your back, I say it to your wife, but you know, you're, you're just the real deal. You are, you are a solid man, a solid human being. Um, I've seen you as a, as a caring husband, as a loving father, and you just became a grandfather.
3:59 Speaker 00 That's right.
4:00 Michelle Obama? You know, and you, you work at it, you know? I don't think it's magic. The loyalty that your fans and your band members show you, that's not magic, that's work, because that's who you are.
4:16 Speaker 00 Yeah. If, if you want the stability and if you want the depth of those lifelong friendships and partnerships, you know, you're not gonna get it without working at it, you know? When I was young, I said, oh, you know, I, I says, well, I got really good at playing the guitar. Oh, I should be great at, uh, being a partner for someone. And I realized, oh, wait a minute, I spent. Thousands of hours learning the guitar.
4:48 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
4:48 Speaker 00 And finally, I realized, hey, I gotta put the time in. And, you know, we got three great kids and Patty and I are both, you know, we came out of complicated families. And so you get the great reward of seeing your children unburdened by a lot of the toxicity that you had to work your way through. You know, what is your goal? Your goal is let me work my way through this so you won't have to. Let your sins be your own.
5:19 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
5:20 Speaker 00 For your children. Let them have their own mistakes. Just don't make my mistakes over again.
5:25 Michelle Obama? Yeah, yeah. But that's a rare, it's a rare thing. I mean, it's rare that people don't pass their stuff on. And that's one of the things that, that's why I marvel at you and Patty and the work that you all have done because you, you, you learn those lessons. You and Patty have been couple mentors for me and Barack for quite some time.
5:54 Speaker 00 Whoa, all right.
5:55 Michelle Obama? Yeah, yeah. You know, watching you guys do the work, getting advice on how to keep those lines of communication open. You got two powerful people in you and Patty. You know, your own powerhouses in your own right and merging those lives together. For all those reasons, you were the perfect person to be here to discuss this, this wonderful question from one of our listeners. Her name is Alex. She's 24 year old woman.
6:30 Speaker 00 Right.
6:31 Michelle Obama? And she, you know, is struggling with the relationship with a father. But I think our, our listeners would, would love to hear some of your wisdom on, on, on the challenge that Alex is facing. So let's listen to the question.
6:50 Speaker 02 Hi, Michelle. My name is Alex. I'm 24 years old and I live in Oakland, California. My parents divorced when I was a young kid, and I've always had kind of a complicated relationship with my dad. In middle school and high school, I saw my dad every week as part of the divorce schedule. But as an adult, his life is almost completely separate from mine. We talk on the phone kind of every couple of months, but I see him only every year or two. He remarried my stepmother while my sister and I were still pretty young. And now my dad and stepmom and two step siblings are kind of their own family unit, while my sister and I really feel more like their cousins who get invited in only occasionally. My main issue with my dad is that I just really want him to visit me in Oakland.
7:35 Speaker 02 I've lived here for three years, and he's not come to see me once. I'd love him to meet my boyfriend and my friends and my cat and show him the life I've built for myself. He says he will, but he just doesn't come. I've told him directly how I want us to be more involved in each other's lives, but he does not reciprocate. What makes this hardest is that I love spending time with my dad. As much as he's hurt my feelings, when we're together, it's so easy. We love the same things, and he makes me feel like the smartest version of myself. When we argue, it's only over how I want him to give more of an effort. I'm worried that now that I'm an adult, we'll just grow further apart. And I kind of know he won't really be the parent I need him to be.
8:20 Speaker 02 So my question to you is, how do I move forward from this? How do you accept someone who you care so much about giving you less than what you need from them?
8:31 Michelle Obama? Yeah, and I feel for Alex. But I think her question... Unfortunately, there are a lot of young people, a lot of people who are struggling with this father dynamic all over the... not just all over the country, all over the world. You know, kids trying to figure out how to build those relationships with fathers who aren't there, can't be there, choose not to be there. So I know that a lot of listeners can relate to where Alex is. But Bruce, why don't we just jump in? What do you think?
9:16 Speaker 00 Uh, this is a tough position to be in.
9:19 Michelle Obama? Mm hmm.
9:19 Speaker 00 And I kinda grew up with an absentee father in the house.
9:24 Michelle Obama? Mm hmm.
9:24 Speaker 00 You know, my entire life was sort of waiting for him to shine on me in one way or another.
9:32 Michelle Obama? Yeah, yeah.
9:33 Speaker 00 I didn't, when you're young, you don't realize that's, I don't think that's gonna happen. He wasn't, he simply wasn't well enough. He was, my dad struggled with a lot of mental illness. And which we didn't know until, cause it's the 50s. We didn't know until much later. But as a child, it was incredibly, incredibly painful. And she's only 24. And at 24, I was still struggling with all of this.
10:00 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
10:01 Speaker 00 But she's in an interesting position because she says that her father lights her up when they're together.
10:08 Michelle Obama? Mm hmm.
10:09 Speaker 00 But doesn't seem to wanna take the full responsibility of a parent, you know? So you're sort of left in between a rock and a hard place, you know? How do you accept someone you care about giving you less than what you need from them?
10:26 Michelle Obama? Mm hmm. Yeah, is that a thing that you do, you know? I mean, I would tell Alex that it's not just her burden, you know?
10:35 Speaker 00 That's right.
10:36 Michelle Obama? To bear. It's a tough thing trying to get a grown up to do what's right by a kid who's just developing.
10:44 Speaker 00 No, I think one of the most difficult things to do is realizing that relationships have their limits.
10:53 Michelle Obama? Mm.
10:54 Speaker 00 Sometimes there are simply no great choices.
10:57 Michelle Obama? Mm hmm.
10:57 Speaker 00 We all wanna love our parents. At the same time, there are irretrievable relationships.
11:04 Michelle Obama? Mm hmm.
11:05 Speaker 00 There are relationships that simply are not gonna function. The thing that I found was helpful, even with my father's illness. And it sounds like she's done this, but it's worth reiterating that communicating honestly and directly as you can to with that person.
11:27 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
11:28 Speaker 00 When my father got very ill, he got lost. I had to go find him in Los Angeles, brought him back home. And the only thing I could tell him, I says, "Look Dad, you know, you have to understand that Mom needs you.
11:42 Michelle Obama? Mm hmm.
11:43 Speaker 00 I need you in my life."
11:46 Speaker 00 And I tried to be as directly as I could with my father in letting him know how important he was. And just in my heart and in my soul, you know? And hope that he would be able to respond to that.
12:06 Michelle Obama? And that's a brave thing. It's a bold thing to ask a kid to do. And I'd still see Alex at 24 as a kid.
12:16 Speaker 00 Yeah.
12:16 Michelle Obama? Right?
12:16 Speaker 00 24, you're a kid.
12:18 Michelle Obama? You're still a kid. And to be able to look someone that you look up to in the eye and tell them and admit to them that they've hurt you.
12:28 Speaker 00 Yeah.
12:28 Michelle Obama? You know? And to even admit that need, right?
12:31 Speaker 00 Yeah.
12:32 Michelle Obama? That's a vulnerable thing. That's a vulnerable position that Alex has to be mature enough to put herself in.
12:40 Speaker 00 That's right.
12:41 Michelle Obama? But I think what you're saying is true that by doing that, even if it's tough, it's unburdening for her. So that at least she's on record. You know, as uncomfortable as it may make her feel, it's important for her well-being to have it stated plain and to not assume that he understands, to say those words out loud that
13:08 Speaker 00 That's right.
13:09 Michelle Obama? "I need you and I'm hurt when you're not here."
13:13 Speaker 00 That's right. I know that was valuable for me. And I think that helped my father understand his own value, which was a problem.
13:31 Craig Robinson? This episode of IMO is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Financial security isn't just about the here and now. It's about the future. That's why we love what Progressive is doing to help people attain, maintain, and build wealth through homeownership. For over 80 years, Progressive has led with the belief that insurance should do more than just protect, it should propel people forward. Their commitment to not only helping more first-generation homeowners stay protected, but also support communities through Progressive's Down Payment Assistance Program, the Up Payment Program, which will help drive real impact,
14:13 Craig Robinson? making the dream of homeownership more attainable for everyone. You know, my wife Kelly and I are currently in the process of redoing our bathroom. We just started out and haven't done the demolition yet, but we know that this will add to the value of our house. So, thank you Progressive for helping families plan ahead and for sponsoring our show. Visit progressive.com/OPENTHEHOUSE to learn more. We're so thrilled that PineSol is a partner of IMO. PineSol has been connected to our family forever. To this day, whenever my sister and I catch the scent of PineSol, we automatically feel better about life.
14:55 Craig Robinson? The smell of PineSol has always taken us back to our childhood home. It is amazing how smells can transport you to a place or a moment in time. Another smell that takes me back is cherry blossoms, which always remind me of visiting Michelle in DC. That's why I'm excited for PineSol's newest scent, Cherry Blossom. The cleaning power you know and love from PineSol is available in a new scent this spring, Cherry Blossom, which is light and fresh and leaves a lasting floral scent while eliminating tough dirt, grease, and grime. You can use PineSol Cherry Blossom Multi-Surface Cleaner
15:36 Craig Robinson? to help deodorize and clean hard, non-porous surfaces, including floors, sinks, counters, stoves, bathtubs, shower stalls, tile, and more. Visit pinesol.com to find where to shop PineSol Multi-Surface Cleaner in the new Fresh Cherry Blossom scent.
15:58 Craig Robinson? Taraji P. Henson was one of the best guests we've had so far on IMO. We had such a great time with her and the episode really resonated with folks. Tyler Perry is another friend of the podcast and Taraji stars in his new movie Straw as a single mom just trying to survive the day. Until that day turns into a nightmare. It's a high stakes thriller that hits hard and won't let go. With Sherri Shepherd and Tiana Taylor alongside her. Witness what happens when survival means standing together. Watch Straw now, only on Netflix.
16:45 Speaker 00 Really, you have to lay it out there? And in doing so, she's showing more maturity than her dad. And make an effort to understand, well, he remarried, he has another family. You can look at like your previous family is a failed family in some way. And that can bring a lot of guilt, a lot of your own sense of failure. And he needs the maturity to understand that she has this beautiful daughter and.
17:17 Michelle Obama? And you don't just get to walk away.
17:19 Speaker 00 No, you gotta be accountable. Hey, once, you know, you signed your name on the dotted line, you know?
17:26 Michelle Obama? So. You said, you used the term when you described your father as he was absentee in the home. There are the people who just disappear. They don't show up, but you make a point that there's also, there's also an absence that can be felt when people are there.
17:48 Speaker 00 Yeah.
17:49 Michelle Obama? And that can be just as painful.
17:51 Speaker 00 People write you out of the picture using a variety of devices. One was, in my case, my dad was quite a drinker, you know? And that took up a lot of his time. He was busy doing that a lot. And one of the things that Patty taught me was she says, listen, you can't just be here, you gotta be present. I used to think, well, wait a minute, I got a song to write. I'm thinking these great thoughts. You know, come on, you're getting away from my great thoughts, you know? And. And I learned that like, well, if you got a good song, it'll be there tomorrow, you know? But the kids, they're gonna be gone.
18:36 Speaker 00 They're not gonna be there tomorrow.
18:37 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
18:38 Speaker 00 You know? That relatively quickly, they rush through your life. And even if you remain close to them, they're out the door and they're leading their own lives now. I always remember I had a discussion with my oldest son at one point where I felt that I had taught him. Like if I asked him to do something, I had signaled him that I wanted him to say no.
19:07 Speaker 00 If I asked you to do something, you know, it's always, oh, maybe later dad, or maybe this. I think I taught you to do that.
19:15 Michelle Obama? You mean just spending time together?
19:17 Speaker 00 That's right.
19:18 Michelle Obama? Or, yeah.
19:18 Speaker 00 That's right, because...
19:19 Michelle Obama? So he started playing back for you the response.
19:23 Speaker 00 That's right.
19:24 Michelle Obama? Be unavailable.
19:25 Speaker 00 That's right.
19:26 Michelle Obama? This is what we do. Dad wants to play ball. Well, you know, this is what my dad says. Maybe later.
19:34 Speaker 00 You know, so, so I realized that parenting is pennies in the bank.
19:40 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
19:41 Speaker 00 It's that time when you were working and you didn't want to stop, but you did. That made a huge difference to me. Because if I'd have failed, I always felt if I'd have failed with my kids, I would have failed tremendously in life.
19:59 Michelle Obama? I like what you said, that parenting is pennies in the bank. And that just resonates because I think of, you know, I think of my upbringing. And I've talked about in a lot. You know, we were working class, poor working class family. The father was a city worker. He did not make a lot of money. He did not have a title. He was not famous. He wouldn't be on a regular schedule. We could go for a week and not see him because he was working a shift. But when he was present, he was present in very small but meaningful ways.
20:39 Speaker 00 Wonderful.
20:39 Michelle Obama? Something as simple, you know, I recall like the special treat before dinner, if he was there or after dinner was that we get him to play a game.
20:51 Speaker 00 Yeah.
20:52 Michelle Obama? Any kind of game, you know, a tickle game, a card game. And it just felt like such a treat that this big, important man, who had all this responsibility.
21:04 Speaker 00 Yeah.
21:05 Michelle Obama? Got on the floor and played with us.
21:07 Speaker 00 Yeah.
21:08 Michelle Obama? He delighted in our presence.
21:11 Speaker 00 Yeah, that's wonderful.
21:12 Michelle Obama? And what I tell a lot of parents is that a lot of times we work for money and things. Because especially if you're poor, you think, well, if I could give my kids more, we could live in a bigger house, if I could put them in the best schools, if I could give them the nicest sneakers, right?
21:35 Speaker 00 Right.
21:35 Michelle Obama? That that is going to replace it. But it's the pennies in the bank.
21:42 Speaker 00 Yeah.
21:42 Michelle Obama? That matter and everybody's got some pennies, you know? Kids don't need the stuff. They just want the pennies, you know?
21:53 Speaker 00 Very important.
21:54 Michelle Obama? And I think a lot of men lose sight of the fact that a lot of what they're working towards is just their goals.
22:04 Speaker 00 Right.
22:04 Michelle Obama? And ambition, you know? And I think men should have that. I think everyone, men, women, people have to have their own lives and their own ambitions, but have it and say that's for you. But your kids, they just want pennies.
22:19 Speaker 00 They want the pennies.
22:20 Michelle Obama? They really do.
22:21 Speaker 00 They do, yeah.
22:23 Michelle Obama? Yeah, you're never too poor. To be a father.
22:27 Speaker 00 No, to give, you know, time and attention. You know, artists, the worst, the worst, so self-involved.
22:35 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
22:36 Speaker 00 You know, oh, my God, you know? You get so caught up in your own, your own inner world.
22:42 Michelle Obama? Mm-hmm.
22:43 Speaker 00 You know, because that's where you sought refuge.
22:45 Michelle Obama? Mm-hmm.
22:46 Speaker 00 You know, when, when things weren't working out, when you were younger, you sought refuge in this inner world.
22:51 Michelle Obama? I think the, the point you're making is that, you know, it's, it's easy to get lost in the grandeur of your life.
23:00 Speaker 00 Exactly, of yourself.
23:01 Michelle Obama? Of yourself.
23:03 Speaker 00 I had to deal with a lot of the grandeur of myself.
23:06 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
23:09 Michelle Obama? Yeah, because that's the thing everybody's taught to pursue, you know?
23:13 Speaker 00 It's so sad, yeah.
23:15 Michelle Obama? That's, that's the, the brass ring. And that's why parenting is a, is a, it's a group sport.
23:23 Speaker 00 Big time.
23:24 Michelle Obama? And I think Barack is, just like you, is a tremendous father, doing it in a lot of grandeur, right?
23:34 Michelle Obama? Yeah, you're the commander in chief of the United States of America. And so finding that, that balance of, you know, when you, you've got the nuclear code in your grasp and world leaders calling you and big, important, heavy decisions coming at you every day and valets and aides and on and on and security and, oh, it's just all grandeur. Trying to wipe all that stuff away and leave it at the door before you enter, before he would enter the residence of the White House to sit at a dinner table with his two daughters. And only talk about them.
24:19 Speaker 00 Right.
24:20 Michelle Obama? It was important for both of us, for me and Barack, to carve out that time in those eight years, when our girls were in their formative years, you know?
24:31 Speaker 00 Yeah.
24:32 Michelle Obama? They've lived long, Malia and Sasha, in the White House than they've lived in any house.
24:36 Speaker 00 That's amazing.
24:38 Michelle Obama? They were formed in that house and around that table, in that residence. And it took a mighty effort to leave the grandeur at the door and to just be there and talk about fifth grade.
24:54 Speaker 00 Yeah.
24:55 Michelle Obama? And, you know?
24:56 Speaker 00 Even in my job, you know, it's like, hey, you're on the road, you're king. You go home, hey, you're the chauffeur. You know, and making that transition can be funny, you know? And everybody has some version of that, you know?
25:10 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
25:11 Speaker 00 That you need to transition into your domestic life and to be able to transition into your domestic life and to understand who you are there and to identify it. You know, I think, I know in my case, I had a hard time dealing with domesticity, period.
25:31 Michelle Obama? What do you mean by that?
25:32 Speaker 00 I was such a spoiled child. Even though we grew up lower middle class, working class.
25:39 Michelle Obama? You were adored.
25:40 Speaker 00 I was, yeah, period. Somebody, you know, I was, I was, artists are all the same. One person tells them they're the second coming of baby Jesus. The other person tells them they're not worth a dime and they believe both of them. And it sets up a dynamic that puts the fire in the furnace, you know, for the rest of your life. But, but in Alex's case, it's very difficult. I think she has to find out if her relationship with her father is truly retrievable, if he can respond to her, to her needs. And, and, and he's got to step up and be accountable.
26:16 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
26:24 Craig Robinson? This episode of IMO is brought to you by Theraplu. Hey, it's Craig Robinson here, and let me tell you, being sick is no joke. But you know what's even tougher? Feeling like you can't take the time to rest and recover because you've got bills to pay or a job to keep. You know, being a coach, even though I was afforded paid sick time, it was the type of job that you really try and muscle through for your team. And I have done that. It made me realize, though, that it is tough for folks who don't have the benefit of paid sick time. It's not only tough on the individual and their families, it's also tough on your coworkers.
27:06 Craig Robinson? Maybe you, like so many Americans, have felt that stress too, wondering what your boss will think or if your paycheck will take a hit. That's why I'm proud to talk about what Theraplu is doing with their Right to Rest and Recover campaign. For the past four years, they've been championing the right to paid sick time for everyone. I love that Theraplu is making this a priority. Learn more or help someone apply for the fund at theraplu.com/righttorecover. This episode of IMO is brought to you by Indeed. Let's be real, getting a better job shouldn't depend on a humble brag or having a stacked net work.
27:51 Craig Robinson? It should be about what you know, not who you know. That's what's so great about Indeed Profile. It matches you with better work based on your skills and experience. Once you're on the court, it's all about the work you've put in. There's no coach there to help you, there's no parent there to help you. It's very similar to being recruited. Once a coach sees you play, that's one thing. The people who've helped you get there aren't going to be there to help you perform. It's all about what you do once you get there. Whether it's on the court or your Indeed profile, it's about showing what you're made of to find better opportunities.
28:32 Craig Robinson? Plus, when you add your skills to your Indeed profile, you're twice as likely to hear from hiring managers. Update your Indeed profile and start finding better work today.
28:44 Craig Robinson? This episode of IMO is brought to you by Cologuard, a non-invasive colon cancer screening test. As it stands, colon cancer is on the rise in people under 50, which is why the American Cancer Society recommends that if you're at average risk, you begin screening at 45. Even if you live a healthy lifestyle and don't have symptoms, no one is at low risk for colon cancer. We want to make sure our listeners know that colon cancer can be treatable in nine out of 10 people. But the key here is that it has to be caught early. With the Cologuard test, you can take control of your colon cancer screening through a prescription-based test
29:29 Craig Robinson? with none of the prep that's required of a colonoscopy. Not only is the Cologuard test effective for colon cancer screening, but it can even detect precancer. And in addition to its convenience, the Cologuard test is also affordable. Most insured patients find they pay nothing out of pocket. With zero downtime, no special preparation, and a screening test that's delivered right to your door, don't let your health take a backseat. So if you're 45 or older and at average risk, ask your healthcare provider about screening for colon cancer with the Cologuard test. You can also request a Cologuard prescription today
30:14 Craig Robinson? at coliguard.com/podcast. The Cologuard test is intended to screen adults 45 and older at average risk for colorectal cancer. Do not use a Cologuard test if you have adenomas, have inflammatory bowel disease, and certain hereditary syndromes, or a personal or family history of colorectal cancer. The Cologuard test is not a replacement for colonoscopy in high-risk patients. Cologuard test performance in adults ages 45 to 49 is estimated based on a large clinical study of patients 50 and older. False positives and false negatives can occur.
30:59 Craig Robinson? Cologuard is available by prescription only.
31:07 Michelle Obama? Alex, you know, at 24, it's not too soon to do some analysis.
31:14 Speaker 00 Not at all.
31:15 Michelle Obama? Because she definitely is in a situation that could mess her up. It could impact her emotional, mental health, her feelings of self-worth if she doesn't get some help working through these feelings, even if it's not with him.
31:37 Speaker 00 Right.
31:38 Michelle Obama? Because like you said, her father may not be capable of giving her what she needs.
31:43 Speaker 00 Yeah.
31:44 Michelle Obama? And she's got to figure enough of that out. But then, if the answer is no, she still is gonna need some help to deal with that hurt and that rejection. And what I would say to Alex is that that's real, you know? You are not crazy.
32:00 Speaker 00 Yeah, that's important.
32:01 Michelle Obama? For feeling pained. Your father's actions have done some damage on you.
32:08 Speaker 00 Right.
32:09 Michelle Obama? And if he can't admit it, then I want to hand her that. Because she's not only dealing with his rejection, which is one thing, but the fact that he started a whole nother family.
32:20 Speaker 00 Yeah.
32:21 Michelle Obama? That he is fathering.
32:23 Speaker 00 Right.
32:24 Michelle Obama? That's an incredibly hurtful thing to watch and experience for her and her sister, for the kids that were left behind.
32:33 Speaker 00 Yeah.
32:34 Michelle Obama? And I think it's a disservice to not let young people know when they're in a crazy circumstance.
32:43 Speaker 00 Absolutely.
32:44 Michelle Obama? You know? It's like, I want to be like, Alex, it's messed up.
32:48 Speaker 00 Yeah.
32:49 Michelle Obama? Your father is wrong.
32:51 Speaker 00 Yeah.
32:52 Michelle Obama? You know? He is the adult. He has failed you, and it's not you.
32:56 Speaker 00 Well, that's very important. I think when you're young, you know, and I did this myself, is like... If I'm being rejected, well, I must have done something wrong.
33:06 Michelle Obama? Yeah, that's right.
33:08 Speaker 00 I'm insufficient in some way. I'm not enough. I don't deserve to be loved. I don't deserve to be parented. You know, I just assumed that that was true.
33:18 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
33:19 Speaker 00 And carried that with me for a long, long, long time, you know, a long time.
33:26 Michelle Obama? What do you think were some of the biggest changes that you made once you said to yourself, I gotta be more present?
33:35 Speaker 00 Well, a lot of it was I had to put my work more in perspective, you know?
33:41 Michelle Obama? Say that one more time.
33:44 Speaker 00 I had to put my work more in perspective because I realized that I was so fundamentally uncomfortable in so many real-life situations, that I was taking my job, expanding its hours so that it took up most of my day. I was used to this putting an enormous amount of time into someplace where I was comfortable emotionally and mentally, which was basically in the worlds that I was creating. I had to step out of that and put that in perspective. And I was, okay, guess what? I'm only gonna work from 12 to 6. I'm not gonna work after 6 o'clock.
34:26 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
34:27 Speaker 00 And I'm gonna get up at 6:30 a.m. I'm gonna make the kids breakfast and take them to school. I do that every day.
34:35 Michelle Obama? Pennies in the bank.
34:36 Speaker 00 You know, pennies, you know? So, and these are things which I would not have done without Patty being there to support me and explain to me, hey, man, you're screwing it up. And not only are you screwing it up, but you yourself are gonna miss it.
34:53 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
34:54 Speaker 00 If you don't get up in the morning when your kids are at their best, you're gonna miss it.
34:59 Michelle Obama? And you lose those years. They go by so fast. Barack didn't struggle in the way that you did. But, you know, with a busy schedule, I used to, whenever I thought he wasn't doing enough, I'd start singing, "Cats in the cradle and the silver spoon." Because that song is so profound, you know? "When you coming home, son, don't know when." I was like, you're gonna look up and the girls will be gone, you know? Because there is a little window that parents don't understand of time when your children even want to be bothered with you.
35:34 Speaker 00 Well, they're gonna be gone and they are not gonna be taking you with them.
35:39 Michelle Obama? That's right. That's right.
35:41 Speaker 00 Your time and your ability to influence their inner life and their spiritual life and their emotional life will have come to a close. And if they walk out that door without taking you with them, it's gonna be a tremendous loss in your life.
35:57 Michelle Obama? Mm-hmm. And that kind of foresight, I don't think a lot of people think about, like the pennies in the bank investment when they're young. And you do still have some influence over their emotional and spiritual and intellectual being. And to know that they come out on the other end as adults whole, able to raise whole grandkids. And how that frees you up later in life so that you can really enjoy your life and not worry about your adult kids screwing up because you weren't there when they needed you, you know? I mean, isn't it really a wonderful thing to be at this stage,
36:39 Michelle Obama? to have three beautiful adults who are out in the world contributing? And you can now have a full relationship with them and watch them parent their own kids?
36:52 Speaker 00 I watched my youngest son with his daughter. He's a better dad than I was already, you know? And that gives me great pride, you know, great pride. I go, well, he's really doing it right, you know? And for Alex, taking a long view of things, realizing that these things don't necessarily work themselves out.
37:16 Speaker 00 In your desired time, or certainly quickly.
37:19 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
37:20 Speaker 00 That sometimes you process and work these things out throughout your entire life.
37:25 Michelle Obama? Mm hmm.
37:26 Speaker 00 And that's how you find peace with them.
37:28 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
37:28 Speaker 00 And some compassion for your errant parent, or you know, I love my father deeply throughout my entire life. Throughout the last 10 years of his life, he was able to see my children and we had one interaction that made the world of difference to me. I was, Patty and I were gonna have our first, first son. And Patty came down, visited me one day, and we were living in Los Angeles. He just knocks on my door, this is my dad, you know, doesn't tell me he's coming, comes down from San Francisco. He comes in, wants a beer. It's 11:00 in the morning, I give him a beer, I take one for myself.
38:11 Speaker 00 And he looks at me and says, hey, you know, you've really been very good to us.
38:18 Michelle Obama? Mm.
38:19 Speaker 00 I says, yeah, Pa, it was my pleasure, you know, it was, it's one of you guys, the house, and I wasn't very good to you.
38:27 Michelle Obama? Uh huh.
38:28 Speaker 00 He looks at me, and I said, well, you did the best you could, which he did under the circumstances of his illness and, and that was, in a funny way, that one small acknowledgement of the truth.
38:47 Michelle Obama? Hmm.
38:47 Speaker 00 Made an enormous, enormous difference to me and my life. I still remain filled with the grace of that moment. And it was, and I feel blessed by the ability to have that moment. And sometimes that's the best that you can, that's the best that you can hope for.
39:03 Michelle Obama? Bruce, that's such, that's just such an important thing for people to remember, because I know there are probably a lot of absentee parents out there listening. And I'm sure some of what happens is that it just gets harder to acknowledge, right?
39:22 Speaker 00 Yeah.
39:23 Michelle Obama? You know, the longer it goes, the more the words get lost and stuck in the throat.
39:29 Speaker 00 Yeah.
39:31 Michelle Obama? And so I'm sure there are people out there who aren't reaching out because they don't even know how to. They think it's too late. And I think this story reminds us all that for kids, it's never too late.
39:44 Speaker 00 Never too late.
39:45 Michelle Obama? And the acknowledgement can be something as small as, I see you.
39:52 Speaker 00 Yeah.
39:52 Michelle Obama? I, I, I know that I didn't do my best.
39:57 Speaker 00 Yeah.
39:58 Michelle Obama? And it's just important for the adults out there to understand that even that little bit of acknowledgement, like the grace of that, as you said, what that did for you, even as you were becoming a father, it wasn't too late.
40:15 Speaker 00 No.
40:16 Michelle Obama? And it meant something.
40:17 Speaker 00 And like I say, it, it, it ended up being enough for me at the end of the day. And, and, and, but I think it ended up being enough for me because I put all the time in to process through the pain and, and heartbreak, that relationship, it, it cost the two of us, you know? So then, and you have to understand sometimes there's things you're, you know, there were things that my father was totally incapable of. So I love you, but please.
40:45 Michelle Obama? That wasn't gonna happen.
40:46 Speaker 00 You know, it's like, and I had to come to, I had, I had, I had to come to peace with the fact that, well, that's, that's my old man, you know, that, that's, and my father was a very funny man. My first divorce, he's taking me to the airport and he says, Bruce, you know, maybe it's time for you to move back home.
41:10 Michelle Obama? Okay.
41:11 Speaker 00 And I go, Dad, I'm like, I said, I'm 36. I'm a, I'm a self-made, I'm, I'm, I'm a millionaire.
41:19 Michelle Obama? I'm the boss.
41:20 Speaker 00 Yeah, I can't move back home in my room.
41:22 Michelle Obama? I can't move in the basement.
41:24 Speaker 00 But you know, I was really glad to be asked.
41:29 Speaker 00 I really, really touched you in the ass.
41:32 Michelle Obama? It's like, maybe you need to be with your daddy.
41:43 Craig Robinson? This episode of IMO is brought to you by DoorDash. As someone who knows how busy life can get, I appreciate anything that makes things easier. DoorDash makes it simple to send thoughtful surprises to those who matter most, whether it's flowers, snacks, or even a favorite meal. And restaurants are just the start. There's so much to discover. Whether you're on the go, stuck in a meeting, or just looking to brighten someone's day, DoorDash connects you with all kinds of local businesses, delivering fresh flowers or gifts in under an hour. DoorDash is offering our listeners 50% off up to $15 when you spend $15 or more
42:27 Craig Robinson? on your next order at the florist's, grocery, retail, or convenience stores. Use code IMO50 at checkout. Terms apply. This episode is brought to you by Cologuard. I knew that I shouldn't delay screening for colon cancer, and Cologuard has made that process 1 million times easier for all of us. I just answered a few questions about my age and medical history, and once their licensed clinician determined I was eligible, they issued the prescription and the Cologuard Plus kit was sent right to my home. No doctor's office visit necessary. For me, there was just immediate relief in getting it done. It cost me $0 with my insurance. It took me truly 15 minutes,
43:09 Craig Robinson? and now I can rest easier knowing I screened properly. Plus, if you get a negative result, you generally don't need a repeat Cologuard test for three years. If you're 45 or older and at average risk, it's time to screen for colon cancer, even if you feel perfectly healthy. And Cologuard Plus gives you an option you can use right at home. Talk to your healthcare provider about screening for colon cancer with Cologuard, or request it online today at Cologuard.com, where they have an easy telehealth option. Don't wait. Cologuard products are intended to screen adults 45 and older at average risk for colorectal cancer. Do not use if you have had a personal history of colorectal cancer or polyps, have inflammatory bowel disease, a family history of colorectal cancer,
43:53 Craig Robinson? or certain hereditary syndromes, or a positive result from another colon cancer screening method within that test recommended screening interval. Cologuard results should be interpreted with caution as false positives and false negatives do occur. Available by prescription only. I love this time of year, but hosting during the holidays can be a bit of a challenge. So Kelly and I have collected a few hacks to make it a little bit easier. One of our favorite moves is an extendable dining room table. It's this great walnut color, and it's mid-century modern, so it looks awesome in our space. And it even has extra storage in the legs. When we don't need the middle panels, we just slide them out, and our space is back to how it was before. For all things hosting, Wayfair delivers high-quality,
44:38 Craig Robinson? customer-trusted products for your home so you can host and celebrate without the stress. Use filters, customer photos, and more than 20 million verified five-star reviews to confidently find the right fit for your home. When refreshing your home this holiday season, Wayfair delivers exactly what you need. Head to wayfair.com to shop all things home. That's W A Y F A I R dot com.
45:07 Speaker 04 Wayfair, every style, every home.
45:09 Craig Robinson? Thanks again to DoorDash, your go-to for making someone's day even from afar. Whether it's flowers, a meal, or a sweet treat, DoorDash makes it easy to show appreciation, no matter where you are.
45:33 Speaker 00 I found recognition of my needs in funny places at funny times. They weren't convenient, and they were never going to be, quote, "normal." Alex here says that when she's with her father, it makes her feel like the smartest person in the room. That's a good place to start.
45:52 Michelle Obama? Yeah. And one thing, I do want to go back to the work that you've done, the therapy that you've done. And I talk to you about this a lot, you know, that it is rare for men.
46:05 Michelle Obama? To get help, to seek counseling. And not only have you done it, but you're very vocal about it. And you're very clear headed about it. You give permission to a lot of men out there who need to do work. They need to do some self reflection and to figure out.
46:27 Speaker 00 Let me say, when I started, I was embarrassed. You know, I was a child of the 50s.
46:33 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
46:34 Speaker 00 My dad was a man of the 50s. And we had a lot of mental illness in my family. My aunts, my cousins. It really ran through particularly the Irish side, but the Italian side in some ways also. And no one got any help.
46:52 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
46:53 Speaker 00 So when I started, and I only started because I hit a wall and really had, looking back on it, was somewhat of a breakdown, you know? And that was, I almost felt like, well, I gotta get help somehow.
47:08 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
47:08 Speaker 00 But I was totally embarrassed. I would hide. I had the baseball cap and the sunglasses. And I'm looking all around to see if anybody's looking at me.
47:19 Michelle Obama? What office building is he going in?
47:22 Speaker 00 And I'm sneaking in the, into the doctor's office. And I'm sneaking out. And I'd say it, but that might've went on for years.
47:32 Michelle Obama? Right.
47:32 Speaker 00 You know, that's how, I did feel embarrassed about, you know?
47:36 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
47:37 Speaker 00 But there was one thing I couldn't argue with. It was working.
47:41 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
47:42 Speaker 00 It was simply working, you know? And bits and pieces, I was getting better at this and more comfortable with that. So it was really, I just came from a world where that didn't exist, you know? And it took a lot to go initially and to finally to just feel completely relaxed about going. And I was very.
48:04 Michelle Obama? Well, it's still stigmatized. I mean, we still don't, we're doing a better job of it than our parents and our grandparents did, for sure. But it's still, we don't talk about mental health.
48:16 Speaker 00 It's like if you were looking for the job of presidency, and someone finds out that you've been in therapy. I don't know of anyone who's done that, hasn't been done. You know, it should be like.
48:27 Michelle Obama? Even though some people should be in therapy who want to be president.
48:30 Speaker 00 Yeah, you think so?
48:31 Michelle Obama? Right.
48:33 Speaker 00 So you know, you look at that should be a plus in your corner.
48:38 Michelle Obama? That's right.
48:39 Speaker 00 It's not a minus, you know, but it's still, it's still an issue. You know, it's still a cultural issue. So.
48:46 Michelle Obama? And I think about how many men would be helped, how many families would be stronger. You know, how many Alexes would, you know, have some level of support and understanding. If we were to understand and embrace the importance of mental health in our lives. Because it's not unique. I mean, we all have people in our lives who, who have real clear mental health issues. Like your father, but it doesn't have to be that extreme. You know, just getting through depression, dealing with the day to day questions.
49:28 Michelle Obama? Even if you had a parent that was there for you, you know, maybe they weren't good at communicating.
49:35 Speaker 00 Yeah.
49:36 Michelle Obama? Maybe they didn't teach you how to explore your emotions. Maybe your mother, you know, didn't hug you enough. Who knows whatever it is, but we are impacted by the world around us. And it doesn't just affect our physical health. It affects us, our souls and our minds. And I just think it's important for people who, you know, have those looking up to them.
50:03 Speaker 00 Oh, yeah.
50:04 Michelle Obama? To know, you know, even the coolest dude on the planet.
50:09 Speaker 00 That's right.
50:10 Michelle Obama? You know, get some help every now and then.
50:14 Speaker 00 Sure does.
50:16 Michelle Obama? But I think that, you know, if we were to sum up some advice for Alex as we close out this conversation. You know, I think Bruce, one of the things that you said is that, you know, sometimes there isn't a, a nice, neat answer.
50:35 Speaker 00 No.
50:36 Michelle Obama? You know, and in Alex's case, she may never find what she needs in her father. Because he may never be capable of giving that to her. And some of this is for the people, if, if there are parents out there who find themselves in this kind of relationship with their children. You know, I think the advice for me wouldn't be for Alex. It's for the parents who are listening. Don't put your child in this kind of situation. You know, if you bring a child on to this earth, be present.
51:12 Speaker 00 Yeah.
51:13 Michelle Obama? Put in the pennies, you know? You don't have to be perfect. You don't have to be trouble free. You know, kids love parents even if they've gone to jail, done some bad things, made some huge mistakes. You still can't replace that love and it is never too late. If you weren't there for the first 10 years, be there for the next and the next and the next.
51:40 Speaker 00 Well, that was it with my own power. I said, hey, you know, guess what? You know, the things you didn't do so well with me and you got another chance. He's my son.
51:51 Michelle Obama? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
51:52 Speaker 00 And to see my father interact with my with my son was very, very valuable.
51:59 Michelle Obama? It was healing.
52:00 Speaker 00 Yeah, and so it's a constant discussion. It's for Alex. It's not something that's necessarily going to be resolved this month or this year. I think if she's not getting that the kind of love that she needs, there's what does she do with her love? You know, where does where does that go? Where does she place that? And also in her her own choosing of a partner.
52:31 Michelle Obama? Yes.
52:32 Speaker 00 Because we're attracted to a lot of the characteristics of our parents. And your peace is something that you have to drive internally yourself and you have to seek out.
52:45 Michelle Obama? You know, I think Alex has some good, you know, she heard it from the boss, you know? Your peace, your inner peace is yours to work on. And it's a gift I hope she cherishes and she gets some help to process it. But thank you for. You know?
53:03 Speaker 00 Yeah, so that's the advice of a guitar player, anyway.
53:06 Michelle Obama? Yeah, yeah, just some guitar player out there.
53:09 Speaker 00 Whatever good that is for you.
53:09 Michelle Obama? A guitar player who happens to be an amazing father and is a proud grandpapa, too.
53:18 Speaker 00 Oh, yeah.
53:19 Michelle Obama? Yeah.
53:20 Speaker 00 Thanks, Michelle.
53:21 Michelle Obama? Thank you. Thank you, Bruce. Thanks for your time and your friendship and your love.
53:25 Speaker 00 A pleasure being here with you, and we love you.
53:28 Michelle Obama? All right. We'll see you out there.
53:50 Speaker 05 Hi, I'm Molly Graham, host of Work Life, a podcast from TED. The most important lessons about work usually aren't the ones anyone teaches you. They come from experience, from uncertainty, from figuring things out as you go. On this show, my expert guests and I explore how careers really unfold, through change, through doubt, through the decisions that shape who we become over time. Because those moments aren't the exception. They are the work. Listen to Work Life wherever you get your podcasts.
Previous Change Your Relationship with Money with Steven Bartlett Next Ask Your Kid The Tough Questions with Angie Martinez Page updated November 3, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated
