Is the U.S. Actually Going to Attack Venezuela? | EYES ON GEOPOLITICS

In this episode of Eyes On Geopolitics, Dee, Andy, Mick, and Jack discuss the current geopolitical landscape, focusing on Venezuela's military situation, U. S. foreign policy, and the implications of military actions. They explore the complexities of regime change, the legal and ethical considerations of military engagement, and the public's perception of foreign interventions. The conversation also touches on the ongoing situation in Ukraine and Gaza, highlighting the challenges and strategies involved in these conflicts. Support the show on Patreon:⬇️ https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouse Subscribe to our new newsletter!!!! https://teamhousepodcast.kit.com/join New merch, patches, and stickers! ⬇️ https://theteamhouse-shop.fourthwall.com Jack:⬇️ https://thehighside.substack.com/ Check out Mick's new podcast here:⬇️ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/at/podcast/pub-and-porch-applied-stoicism/id1836955475 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1k3QPmkAMwnGJxMLDwUSSd?si=n6piIu8XRcag1Z0K43A3bQ Find Mick Mulroy here: Fogbow ⬇️ https://fogbow.com/ Lobo Institute ⬇️ https://www.loboinstitute.org/ Twitter ⬇️ https://x.com/mickmulroy?s=21&t=-Ze3F_Ix2vlJ18KFvORTCA LinkedIn ⬇️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-patrick-mulroy-31198b52/ Bluesky ⬇️ https://bsky.app/profile/mickmulroy.bsky.social Mick’s publications ⬇️ https://www.loboinstitute.org/publications/publications-of-michael-mick-patrick-mulroy/ Find Andy Milburn here: Twitter ⬇️ https://twitter.com/i/flow/login?redirect_after_login=%2Fandymilburn8 LinkedIn ⬇️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewmilburn2023 Substack ⬇️ https://amilburn.substack.com/ Andy’s book ⬇️ https://www.amazon.com/When-Tempest-Gathers-Mogadishu-Operations Bluesky ⬇️ https://bsky.app/profile/andy-milburn.bsky.social Find Jason Lyons here: LinkedIn ⬇️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/jason-lyons-666873316?u Bluesky ⬇️ https://bsky.app/profile/bgsilverback73.bsky.social "Karl Casey @ White Bat Audio" 00:00 Start 00:57 Venezuela: Military Presence and Drug Trafficking 05:29 Regime Change: The Case for Action 08:31 The Complexity of U. S. Foreign Policy 10:40 Military Strategy and Covert Operations 12:13 Legal and Ethical Implications of Military Action 14:51 Economic Factors and U. S. Interests in Venezuela 16:53 The Role of Congress in Military Decisions 18:54 Public Perception of Military Engagements 20:31 The Future of U. S. Foreign Policy 23:43 Ukraine: Military Support and Strategy 56:38 Conclusion and Final Thoughts Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

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• 1:41Speaker 04

  Hey, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Eyes on Geopolitics. Today, we have Andy Milburn, Mick Mulroy, Jack Murphy, and myself. Lot happening, as usual. Kick things off. First and foremost, do us a favor. It's a little bit of house cleaning. Like and subscribe if you're listening to us on audio. Give us five stars. Subscribe there too. That's important as well. And if you want ad free episodes of both Eyes On and the Team House, you can go to patreon.com/teahouse. All these guys, if you want to find out what Jack's working on, what Mick's working on, what Andy's working on, the links are in the description as well. Anything and everything you need to find is in the link down in the description. Mick has a new podcast called The Pub and the Porch, Applied Stoicism. It comes out every Monday. Link is in the description

• 2:25Speaker 04

  there as well. Video's coming very soon. It's a great podcast. Check it out. Please. Thank you. All right. Now, the shit show that is the world. Venezuela, we have a USS Gerald R. Ford steaming in Andy's favorite weapon system, of course, the carrier. Around 14% of the Navy's assets are in the Caribbean, the most in decades. Continuing strikes going on on boats, drug traffickers. This time, it wasn't just Venezuelan. They hit on the Pacific and they also hit Colombian drug traffickers as well. That also kicked up a little bit of a firestorm between Colombia's

• 3:07Speaker 04

  president and President Trump. But right now, let's just focus on Venezuela. It looks more and more like we're ready to go for it, or at least we're pushing for a regime change. Where you guys at? You guys can, you know, paper, rock, scissors to see who goes first. Nick, you go first.

• 3:23Speaker 05

  Okay, so some of the, some of the facts before we get into the analysis. The drug issue, there's more drugs that are produced in Peru, Colombia, and Mexico, especially fentanyl. I think Mexico's like 90% of fentanyl production in Venezuela. I'm not saying that Venezuela doesn't produce a lot of drugs. I'm just laying it out there. Right? You mentioned it, 14% of, you know, naval assets are now in the Caribbean. That's not necessary to interdict drug boats. I think it's fair to say that is either an intimidation factor for getting Maduro to potentially flee themselves,

• 4:02Speaker 05

  maybe a Noriega-type operation to go in and get him. Certainly not enough to occupy it as well. And not that there be any political will do that. They have an amphibious group with a view. That's not enough. They could potentially seize a port city or something like that.

• 4:23Speaker 05

  The issues, of course, are, is this about regime change? Is this about stemming the flow of illegal narcotics the United States is killing American people? Both. Some of the legal issues. If we start doing strikes internal to Venezuela, that's a sovereign country that seems to violate several international laws, including Article II of the UN Charter that created the UN. The United States is going to say, at least if you're talking international law, Article 51, which is an air right of self-defense of a country, but it has to be to oppose an armed attack or an imminent threat. Right?

• 5:07Speaker 05

  So the White House is going to say, yeah, that one, imminent threat. They bring drugs, people take drugs, people die.

• 5:15Speaker 05

  It's up to you guys, everybody, to determine whether that would lead to the definition of an imminent threat, you know? A drug boat that's off the coast of Venezuela, it's about 1,300 miles from the United States. You take about 20 refueling of those types of boats to get to the United States. And then, of course, with all this major military activity, including B-1 bombers flying around the outskirts of Venezuela, we have the president acknowledging, in a rare

• 5:51Speaker 05

  event, the president acknowledging that he's authorized covert actions, not just intelligence collection and support military operations, but he doesn't have to authorize, the CIA does that all the time, but actually to take some form of action. We don't know what it is because we don't know the finding, but that finding could be lethal, it could be influence, it could be whatever the president essentially wrote it to be. And that's all going on at the same time as this major military buildup. So I guess I'll stop there, but hopefully that kind of laid. Oh, and then the last two parts, internal to the United States, to use the military, then you have the War Powers Act, right? It's the War Powers Act, although no president has acknowledged its constitutionality, says

• 6:35Speaker 05

  that if the president uses the military, they have 60 days to do so before either Congress declares.

• 6:43Speaker 05

  A war or he has to withdraw and he has thirty days to do so. So we're gonna, we're gonna hit that clock here and then hopefully. I don't know why it's taken this long. The Supreme Court's actually can decide whether that is constitutional. As Congress says, Article one, we're the ones that declare war. President is the commander in chief after we declare. But that's never been resolved. So I think that kind of lays out a lot of the issues. Boys.

• 7:11Speaker 05

  Andy.

• 7:12Speaker 06

  Yeah, I was, you know, I was waiting for Jack, the visiting star to, to jump in. But Jack is very circumspect on these things and waits for us to talk and then tears us up. So I will, um, I, you know what? I'm, I'm kind of getting the same feeling that I didn't get, but should have had before our, uh, road to war in Iraq, right? Where I, although, I mean, in retrospect, of course, that was, that was a dreadful disaster at the time because we are still in post nine eleven shock. It seemed like a lot of the arguments were rational. Um, but, but nevertheless, it was kind of the same shoehorning of, of intelligence

• 7:54Speaker 06

  and, and public statements into a, a, you know, one particular country. As it turns out, who that, that was largely irrelevant in the war on terror. And in this case, as Mick points out, Venezuela, I won't say the country's irrelevant, but it's certainly not the main actor as far as propagation of the drug trade. You know, through in the United States, we've talked about this, you know? If you want to go to the origins of fentanyl, of course, you have to go to China. And if you want to go to midway points for, for drugs across the spectrum from fentanyl through cocaine, uh, then you, you go to other countries such as Colombia

• 8:36Speaker 06

  and, and even, you know, Mexico, but not Venezuela. Um, so it's, it, it's.

• 8:46Speaker 06

  It's curious and and then you have the Southcom commander resigning. And you know, I've written about under what circumstances should you resign or refuse to obey orders, et cetera, et cetera. And so I was hoping for some kind of public statement afterwards to to explain why why that had happened. Because I would assume that within the US military, there are those who don't think this is a particularly good idea, who regard, who regard, you know, other countries as providing as posing a greater threat to US national interests.

• 9:30Speaker 06

  The last, the last thing I'll say is, you know, the administration's policy during the campaign and repeated often since then is, hey, no more foreign wars, right? And I suppose they mean they just meant no more foreign wars in the Middle East or no more foreign wars in the defense of NATO or it but nearer the homeland, it seems as though perhaps we have a case of the tail wagging the dog. Bottom line is Venezuela is not certainly not an existential of the United States, right?

• 10:11Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, I think that, you know, like Mick said early on that, you know, what's the goal here? Is it counter narcotics? Is it regime change against a dictatorship or a communist regime that we don't particularly like? Like, what are we trying to accomplish? And like, what is the actual threat to the United States? But I think like, these questions are almost like asking too much at this point, because the foreign policy is just so incoherent and it doesn't make any sense. And at the end of the day, I mean, I'm just going to editorialize. I mean, is it really about Venezuela? Or is it about the Epstein files? Like, what what's going on here? Why are we doing this? And, you know, but it

• 10:54Jack Murphy?

  is it is a serious military buildup that's happening down there. JSOC is doing exercises right off the coast around some of these oil platforms. And those exercises could be flipped live at any time. I'm sure that they deployed with an actual combat package and live ammunition for something like that.

• 11:15Jack Murphy?

  Something similar happened. This is kind of a bit of a segue, but in 2004, JSOC did a big training exercise in Thailand. And that was able to be able to be flipped live to go after Al Qaeda high value target. I believe the guy's name was Hambali. He was a pretty high level AQ guy at the time. And actually, the CIA liaison went and picked the guy up and they got him that way. So they didn't need to do some big heroic JSOC raid. But the point is there were like Rangers with live ammunition sitting next to the helicopters, like ready to roll for that if it was needed.

• 11:57Jack Murphy?

  And then of course, the aircraft carrier is, you know, is, you know, depending on what argument you want to make, it's either a deterrent or it's a massive provocation. I don't know which you would think. Yeah, so I have all sorts of questions of, you know, just sanity tests, like what are we doing here?

• 12:17Speaker 05

  Yeah, and if that's, if it is a case like a Noriega type effort, you know, obviously the CIA is going to be, and we're not trying to just kill them because it's easier to kill them, somebody to capture them, so everybody knows on this. But if it is to capture them, to put them on trial, just like Noriega essentially, then having JSOC do these, it's almost like conditioning type runs where they get used to seeing it. It's a training exercise, as Jack said. And then one day they know where they know where he's is and he's in the best position. It looks like a training, you know, exercise and all of a sudden it's not, right? That's pretty risky.

• 13:02Speaker 05

  I mean, moving, you know, obviously the most elite force in the world, but everybody's vulnerable, especially during the movement too, right? There is, I mean, Maduro, he's even openly talking about, I was spreading surface to air missile systems all over the country. And so, I mean, you're going to have shit being shot at you from every direction as you come in. So it's super risky, even with the amount of firepower we have, we certainly won't want to see anything.

• 13:31Speaker 05

  Like that happened. So it's a, it's a big decision. And I think you all said, like, we haven't actually made a case to the American people of why that would be worth the risk, you know, nor do I, unless I'm wrong, correct me if wrong, I think the guy's indicted in the United States. Is Maduro even indicted? I mean, why wouldn't you take those initial steps, right?

• 13:53Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah, as we did.

• 13:55Speaker 05

  Some legitimacy of action toward, you know, apprehending.

• 14:01Speaker 06

  Yeah, I'm trying to remember in just cause we indicted Noriega, right?

• 14:07Speaker 06

  And I mean, there's, there's some parallels, I suppose, right? Um, but the, but, but the, the level of provocation coming from arguably, you know, I mean, I'm, I'm not saying just cause was a pretty good idea, but the level of provocation at the time.

• 14:24Speaker 05

  So let me, uh, correct myself. He is indicted in the United States. So, uh,

• 14:32Speaker 05

  yeah, so that's important. That's an important point. He's also been indicted since 2020.

• 14:37Speaker 04

  So they also, and they also bumped the reward to 50 mil, which I don't know.

• 14:43Speaker 05

  Yes. So that's their, that's at least justification potentially for a military action to apprehend.

• 14:52Speaker 04

  What's interesting to me about the whole thing is like, cause, uh, the Maduro government signaled that they're willing to, uh, cut ties and contracts with, uh, China and Russia and, you know, do deals with us. And you would think with this administration, they'd be more open to, you know, they see dollar signs and that seems to be something that makes them, uh, more, makes them move a little bit. And since that's been floated out there, it's been, it's been said that like the US has said no to, you know, that and like the whole, I remember leading up to like Venezuela has always been bad news. And like, we've always heard that China has its claws in there and Russia has its claws in there.

• 15:33Speaker 04

  And wouldn't it make sense to like, if they de, if they decoupled with those countries? And came towards the, right? That's what I'm saying. And we kind of said, no, right? He said, he offered everything to the United States, but he wanted to stay in power.

• 15:49Speaker 05

  And maybe the, maybe they hope that he just flees the country and goes to Cuba or something. Maybe that's part of the, the kind of like deterrence or provocation, putting this much firepower in there.

• 16:02Jack Murphy?

  You can go play Xbox with Basir Al Assad in Moscow.

• 16:07Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 16:08Jack Murphy?

  Go habsy on a high doctor, please.

• 16:12Speaker 05

  I mean, think about it. Venezuela used to be one of the wealthiest countries in Latin America, and it has 300 billion barrels of proven oil reserves. It's like worth 14 trillion dollars, I think I read. And yet they have seven million people fleeing the country because they, it's, it's a collapsed economy. Right? It's a, it's, it's a, if you, if you really want to see socialism in its pure form, um, there you go. Uh, it's not working too well.

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• 18:06Speaker 05

  So keep that in mind, not that we're talking politics here, but there's a reason that the country who should be doing very well and is credible. It's it's got more proven oil reserves in Saudi Arabia. Think about it. And yet its economy is essentially collapsed.

• 18:24Speaker 04

  I was gonna say something mean, but I'm not gonna do it. Not to always, I mean, I guess Saudi Arabia is the dictators we do like. Um, sorry, Andy.

• 18:36Speaker 05

  Whoa, whoa.

• 18:36Speaker 04

  Don't say anything, Andy. Yeah, yeah. Keep your mouth shut.

• 18:41Speaker 05

  Hmm.

• 18:43Speaker 04

  Sorry.

• 18:43Speaker 05

  I may have to secede from this.

• 18:45Speaker 04

  Also, there is a, there is an argument to like you where you could say because of all the sanctions over the years and stuff like that. That's why uh, they weren't allowed to be in the world economy like any other country or most other countries uh, is why their economy is trash. There's an argument there. I'm not saying it's totally, you know, black and white like that. Obviously, and then Maduro is not a good guy. Neither was Hugo Chavez. So.

• 19:10Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's connected, right? Like if they weren't charged, then they're, they would be.

• 19:15Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 19:17Speaker 05

  And maybe that's part of the, I mean, they probably should spend more time talking about that. If that's the intent, talking about how well that as well it could be doing. If it had a, a legitimately elected Machado essentially was going to win. So he declared that she was ineligible to run, you know, that's, that's like the oldest, you know, autocratic trick in the, in the deck. Uh, and then she picked somebody to run who most international watchers of polls believe won 70% of the vote. And then, you know, uh, Maduro just declared himself the victor and that's, that's where we are now. So he's completely illegitimate and uh,

• 20:00Speaker 05

  Yeah, I I I think the US, if if it is a regime change, ought to just be really open about it. And there's a lot of reasons why that would be not only beneficial for the United States because of the flow of illegal immigrants coming from Venezuela, but also the people of Venezuela. I mean, why not just make the case? You don't need to do it covertly.

• 20:18Speaker 06

  I'd be interested in what the US poll say, you know, I surprisingly enough, I mean, just cause supposedly was supported by 80% of US population. Uh, there there was a catalyst, right? And I I mean, it was the killing of an off-duty Marine. Um, but clearly, US was prepared to do it beforehand. And, you know, I'm just, I'm one

• 20:46Jack Murphy?

  I doubt it. I'm sorry. Sorry to be a skeptic.

• 20:52Speaker 06

  To agree with you. Yeah. I mean, and because in my point is this, that that I think the appetite of US public for foreign adventures, even those on our doorstep is is pretty low. And I think I would have thought that would be a significant obstacle to a decision by not not any legal obstacles, but certainly that.

• 21:17Jack Murphy?

  I I'm I think it's pretty incredible how inoculated the American public has become to the point that they don't really see airstrikes or special operations as being war. Um, and we've seen that with these strikes in the boats in the Caribbean and now the Pacific. Um, I mean, there are people raising concerns about the legalities of it, of course, particularly people like in our circles. But like John Q. Public doesn't really seem particularly bothered by these types of strikes. And I I think that unless you have Marines coming home in body bags, I I don't think the American public's really going to raise too big an eyebrow about it. It's just something we've been conditioned to accept for, you know, decades now.

• 22:02Speaker 05

  Yeah, and it's the the idea, I think, to your point, I mean, we saw this for twenty years and still see it with strikes since, you know, in Syria and stuff with militaries just doing what they do based on AUMF that was, you know, decades ago, right? Al Qaeda and its affiliates. Now we declare another group that does obviously, obviously not supportive narco terrorists, but they don't have anything to do with Al Qaeda, right? So now we just declare them a foreign terrorist organization. And I think the public just says, okay, well, I guess we do the same thing, but there's no, there's no AUM, AUMF equivalent for military action against, uh, you know, narco terrorists. So I guess the question would be whether you support it or not. I mean,

• 22:46Speaker 05

  the system is supposed to have, uh, Congress give for continuous operations, lethal operations, give the military um, authority to do so. If not, then what's the authority? And I think that's the legal question, even if all these people are, you know, smuggling drugs that are getting killed. And I would assume that the targeters are not presenting targets that aren't valid, but um, even if it's if we're presuming they are, which is fine, like, I I don't doesn't executive branch needs some authority from Congress? To continue this, you know, or if if not, they can just do it

• 23:27Speaker 05

  in perpetuity. We could strike every boat that we think is carrying drugs going north.

• 23:34Speaker 06

  I am. So a couple of points in that. I I agree. I think Jack brought up the legalities, Congress's role, uh, both in authorizing military force, um, you know, the War Powers Act, all these things. I think the American public just doesn't understand. Uh, they they they it's one thing not understanding the the, you know, the the path that got us to where we are now with the War Powers Act, with the AUMF. But they don't understand in principle the role that Congress should be playing as a check on the executive, right?

• 24:16Speaker 06

  Um, when it comes to to foreign policy. And I'm not sure they even care. You know, I think there's a lot of Americans who are just, hey, the bad guy is getting killed and you guys are, I mean, make your points absolutely well, taking strikes overseas, whatever, whether it's Afghanistan or whether it's against drug boats, they don't, they don't understand that, that there's good reasons why we adhere to these legal niceties, both domestically and internationally. I mean, they're, you know, they represent norms, right? Um.

• 24:53Speaker 06

  And the concern, of course, you know, we talked about it here on the show before, is if we, if we're going, if we think that lethal force is okay to exercise automatically without any kind of approval against people who are violating US law overseas or intending to violate US law overseas, then legally and ethically, we've opened the door for any country that wants to take out their own citizens in the United States or, or anyone in the United States who is violating the laws of their country, you know, think about, think about what India did and supposedly did in Canada against

• 25:33Speaker 06

  Sikh activists and everyone made such a big deal of that, although no one really cares about what the Canadians, you know, think, and of course they're our enemy now anyway, but you know, I mean, my point is, my point is a, I, I, I think it's a serious one. Um, it's the same thing when we talk about killing, killing people with drones in another sovereign country without that, without the government of that country agreeing, we, we are implicitly opening our doors or ourselves to other foreign powers doing the same. And, um, so I, the, and the last thing I'll say is, I'm not even sure Congress understands, all right? I mean,

• 26:15Speaker 06

  you, you expect the senior chamber, the senate, there to be greater concern, uh, but I, but certainly, you know, across the board, there's some dithering around, there's some, hey, I'm not sure this is exactly right, there are discussions, but there isn't a coherent questioning, serious questioning of, of these, of these acts, you know, I mean, another, another drug boat gets struck or we think it's a drug boat, you know, who knows? I mean, there's no, there's no, no serious opposition.

• 26:51Speaker 04

  Yeah, and you would think there'd be a robust debate going on in Congress.

• 26:54Speaker 06

  One would hope, yeah.

• 26:56Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, there's oversight committees, right, for both Armed Services and Intel. They should be able to see the intel that they're using based, based, uh, the basis for the strikes, right? So they should be able to make their own assessment of whether they're accurate. And then they're supposed to have an authority under the Constitution. I mean, Article One is Congress. It's not a presidency. So they, if we're going to get away, and this isn't a political statement, if we're going to get away from Congress having any play in the use of the military and foreign conflicts, which one can say this is, then it's simply like the unitarian executive theory or whatever.

• 27:36Speaker 05

  Uh, the folks that want basically, uh, a more robust presidency. He doesn't even need to go there and talk to them. That's not, that's not how the system was set up under the Constitution. It's a balance.

• 27:51Jack Murphy?

  That's, that's the, the point that people have made in recent days about, you know, with the government shutdown and, uh, this guy who's a private donor giving a hundred and some odd million dollars

• 28:02Speaker 04

  Hundred thirty, Mellon.

• 28:03Jack Murphy?

  To the administration. Yeah, it's a guy Mellon, who's this like reclusive billionaire, uh, sort of heir to an, uh, an empire of railroaders, I guess. But anyway, he donates this money to keep the troops paid. Um, it, as I understand that it comes out to like a hundred dollars per troop. So it's not really paying their paychecks. Um, but nonetheless, the point being is that if the soldiers are being paid, our soldiers, American soldiers are being paid, uh, with private funds, then do we really have a republic anymore? Is that what this is? Or have we become something else at that?

• 28:42Speaker 06

  It it gets back to. I I know I'm sounding like an old fogey, but what is being taught in our schools? You know, what is being? It ironically immigrants who have to go through the green card process and and get citizenship have a better understanding of the fundamentals of, you know, the what what US um what the institution is founded on, you know, and and the fact that one of the founding fathers biggest fears was an untrammeled executive, right? You know, I mean, that's why that's why the US system was supposed to be so messy because they didn't want a king.

• 29:22Speaker 06

  I you know, I don't I don't mean to go down that road again, you know, but um but intentionally. But then I I think we've probably in the last. You'd have to go back to this to Vietnam and the seventies really to look for um a serious debate right within government about the role of Congress and foreign policy. I mean, the War Powers Act arose in the aftermath of Vietnam um because of Vietnam. But even then, Congress, even even then, Congress, many argued was slow to act. And that was when all Americans had skin in the game because we had the draft. But then we went through twenty years of wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, where only

• 30:07Speaker 06

  a tiny percentage of US population was paying the price. Congress certainly didn't provide very, you know, for a number of reasons, didn't provide um rigorous oversight of those wars. And one of the reasons may have just been aftermath of nine eleven, but one reason undoubtedly was they had no reason to do so because their constituents were not. They didn't have skin in the game. You know, domestic policy was all important. What happened in Afghanistan and Iraq didn't even make the top fold of the paper. And so I think everyone kind of got used to this somnolent attitude of Congress to foreign policy. And now you have

• 30:53Speaker 06

  certainly a group of our population now who who seem all in on just increasingly strengthening the powers of the executive. And and see any attempts to restrain the powers of the executive as being close to treason. You know, it's it's an extraordinary state of affairs, and I can only say that it's

• 31:16Speaker 06

  it it it does stem from a huge collective national lack of education about what this nation was founded on.

• 31:24Speaker 04

  I mean, I've done the citizen's tests with my friends who are American citizens and

• 31:30Speaker 06

  You did them you did them for your friends, did you say?

• 31:32Speaker 04

  No, I used to do a podcast, like a comedy podcast, and I thought it'd be funny to test my friends' knowledge and like US history and stuff like that. And it was pretty bad. These are full grown adult men, citizens of the United States. They had no fucking idea what was going on.

• 31:48Speaker 04

  So

• 31:50Speaker 04

  I think there's a there's something there to that thread you just said about education.

• 31:55Speaker 06

  Yeah, well, you're not. I mean, you're not far off. You know, your your father was a first generation immigrant, right?

• 32:00Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, he came here from Greece.

• 32:04Speaker 06

  All that.

• 32:05Speaker 05

  So another aspect of this is the national defense strategy, which hasn't came out yet. Right? There's purportedly this shifts from all traditional strategies in the past, where we focused on China, Russia, North Korea, Iran, to both the Western Hemisphere, which I think we can see playing out, and homeland defense, which has got a lot of people raising their eyebrow because we obviously have Northcom. The US is going to defend its homeland, of course, but to have that as like the principle is is a kind of a

• 32:42Speaker 05

  Turn toward isolationism, right? That you're going to focus your military efforts on homeland defense. Um, not again, not that that's obviously something they're going to do. But withdrawing from the world is what people are that oppose this. Uh, and this is completely counter to the first Trump administration. Right? I mean, it was part of that. The national security strategy, defense strategy, and the military strategy, it all flows from each other. Uh, but it's based on essentially a prioritization of the White House. And if, if, if the priority now is the Western Hemisphere and our homeland.

• 33:19Speaker 05

  That's going to be a shift from every president. You mean that I can think of, at least in modern.

• 33:25Speaker 04

  Since Woodrow Wilson.

• 33:27Speaker 05

  Yeah, yes, and this is a good, good point, since Woodrow Wilson. But this, this might be the, we're seeing the activity before we see the strategy is, I guess, my point.

• 33:39Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 33:39Speaker 05

  We're seeing them focus on the Western Hemisphere.

• 33:43Speaker 04

  So we just going to let China eat our lunch? That's it? That's the move? That's the national defense strategy?

• 33:48Speaker 05

  It's a big concern with cut foreign assistance around the world and withdrawing. Because if, if the military strategy, right? So that's when they, that's when the rubber hits the road, right? So the national security, defense strategy is, is just what it sounds like. It's more strategic. The military strategy then says, okay, you're saying that homeland defense is. So I don't need to have this many, um, of our forces in the Indo-Pacific or Europe. All the other places that you've now set as a lower priority. So if it was consistent with the way strategy and implementation works, you would see a shift of forces, I guess, back to the United States or at least in South Korea.

• 34:30Jack Murphy?

  It's interesting to see these articles that keep getting published in the Atlantic or Foreign Affairs, which I unsubscribe to actually this year, um, because of kind of what I'm about to say. Um, publishing these articles about, you know, a new Pacific strategy, a new American grand strategy and all this sort of stuff. And it's, these academics are kind of stuck in vapor lock here. And they just don't realize the current conditions and the current world and country we live in right now. That those things are relics of the past. They're dead now. Like, that's not a thing. Like, like this country has made it clear, I think, at this point, like, we're putting that. Prior strategy aside, and we're going to something else. And um, I don't know if I want

• 35:15Jack Murphy?

  to put a name on what it is we're going to just yet, but um, you know, our, our, you know, sort of like foreign policy experts and elites have not wrapped their mind around this fact yet at all, in my opinion.

• 35:30Speaker 05

  Yes. And there's a lot in, in the administration who were very consistent with the, you know, the old way of thinking and prioritizing. I mean, there's plenty of real China Hawks in this administration. And I guess they're just being muted. They've decided that they're no longer China Hawks.

• 35:51Jack Murphy?

  Rubio?

• 35:53Speaker 05

  Well, yeah, I mean, Rubio, at least in my experience, was a pretty traditional.

• 36:00Jack Murphy?

  Every time I see him on video, it looks like a hostage video, like he's just, you know, what does he do, Mick? You tell me, you were in the NSC, what does he do? I know he's a Secretary of State supposedly, but Whitkoff and Jared Kushner, she have taken that job.

• 36:14Speaker 05

  Well, I mean, I would say this, I mean, he's also the National Security Advisor, which doesn't really work. I mean, that's no slam on Rubio, but you can't really do both jobs. I mean, Secretary of State's job's outside of the country, right? The National Security Advisor is supposed to be at the White House around the President at all times, right? That's so it just doesn't, I know they've, I think Kissinger did it too, but I just, I just don't see how as a practical way that would work. I think Rubio, his voice is good in the sense, at least from my perspective, because he does have a long-term experience in intelligence and foreign policy and the military, at least from the legislative side. And he has a more traditional view of the world, which is not, I mean, you can

• 36:56Speaker 05

  look at the past statements he said about US AID, for example, or why, why we need soft power. But, you know, part of taking the job is you're not the one ultimately setting all the policy. So, you know, it's something you had to decide.

• 37:15Speaker 13

  Andy?

• 37:17Speaker 06

  Yeah, I, I mean, I, I wonder who, it was a rhetoric question, but I mean, the, the power behind the throne, you know, we, the, it's really interesting if you look back in the last 20, 30, actually, you know, back to the 80s, or the 70s even, I mean, Nixon is a great example, I mean, you know, it's very obvious to Nixon that Kissinger was the power behind the throne, right? And we talk about the, the guy as Secretary of State and National Security Advisor, you know, hate him or worship him, Kissinger was a personality who could do that, right? I mean, he had the gravitas, he had the knowledge,

• 37:59Speaker 06

  he had ruthlessness, I mean, he knew how to orchestrate power and he knew how to make that work. But my point is that a National Security Advisor is a strange position and it's unusual that Kissinger made Secretary of State and being the position he was. Where I'm heading on this, I'm not simply waffling, I'm just saying that every president, you know, has one or two guys who are the real power behind the throne, right? And they, and it's not, it's not position dependent. In some cases, it's the White House Chief of Staff, in some cases, it's National Security Advisor, in some cases, it's been the Secretary of Defense. In, in this, in this particular administration, you know, it, it could potentially

• 38:41Speaker 06

  be the Vice President, but it, it's, it's hard to divine, make to your point, the fact that people who have the credentials and the background in foreign policy are not the ones with the voice. And I think that is, that, that's a little bit concerning, you know, whether we call them China Hawks or not, the guys who are China Hawks at least have some...

• 39:05Speaker 06

  Have some track record, right, in dealing with these issues. A lot of these people came out of, you know, traditionally, when they weren't in the administration, they were in a think tank, whether it was Republican or Democrat. So they had, they built up this, you know, this collective knowledge. And you just don't see that in this administration. I think perhaps that is why, Jack, to your point, you're saying a lot of these, a lot of these, I don't want to say traditional, but the concept, the perspective of foreign policy that has worked for the United States since 1946 being cast aside.

• 39:48Speaker 06

  And we don't know yet what is in there in its place. It seems right now, frankly, to be incoherent, right? Venezuela, Venezuela is a threat. Canada is, you know, Canada is a potential enemy. Russia is our friend.

• 40:05Speaker 06

  We seem to be all over the place.

• 40:07Jack Murphy?

  To me, it seems like, you know, reading these pieces in foreign affairs and so on. The way I take it is that these experts are really in mourning for the death of America's foreign policy. Like, they're going through the stages of grief. There's like denialism, there's coping mechanisms, there's all these different things. And it's like, hey, guys, I need you to skip right to the end where you get to acceptance and understand what's really happening here because time is going by. You know, history is taking place very quickly these days.

• 40:40Speaker 05

  Yeah, and I mean, think tanks, traditionally, when your side isn't in office, if you will, they go back to think tanks, right? And, but you still want to influence the policy. And that's been cut pretty substantially. And I mean, I'm into several, but like the Defense Department, I think still they're not allowed to engage with think tanks, at least at worst for a while, which is very odd because that's always been.

• 41:09Speaker 05

  Advantages to the Defense Department to be able to talk to people who have really detailed knowledge, like spend all day worrying about, in some cases, specific sectors of foreign policy and have that, it's kind of like CIA analysts in the sense that they just, they live it, breathe it, travel there, and they're just incredibly knowledgeable about it. And that's, that's a big advantage for the Defense Department. The last, at least I know that they, in addition to the cutting the media out, they haven't been allowing active forces to have these engagements. Usually there's fellows, like you go to a think tank.

• 41:49Jack Murphy?

  Why?

• 41:50Speaker 05

  I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if they just, I don't know. Actually, I can't even think of why they would have done that.

• 41:57Jack Murphy?

  Because power comes from the White House down and there's going to be no other advisors or courtiers that are

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• 43:33Jack Murphy?

  Going to come in and influence the decision-making process.

• 43:38Speaker 04

  I mean, but it's not even like dissent, right? Like it's just analysis on like what's going on in a specific region, right? It's not even like I'm against what you're going for like.

• 43:49Speaker 04

  That's what I don't.

• 43:50Jack Murphy?

  Well, that would be like a mature way to think of it by like, if you're a giant toddler, it comes across as dissent and you get angry because you're hearing things you don't want to hear.

• 44:02Speaker 04

  Just to be, who's the giant toddler?

• 44:05Jack Murphy?

  It would be the president in this case.

• 44:07Speaker 04

  Right? Yeah. And I think the real power behind the throne is the.

• 44:13Speaker 04

  Sure. I honestly, I think the real power or like a big faction of power that's in the White House is the Deputy Chief of Staff. I think he's pushing a pretty big agenda.

• 44:27Speaker 04

  Not gonna lie. Stephen Miller is his name.

• 44:30Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 44:32Speaker 04

  Yeah. So this is interesting. Talk about waffling and a little bit of bipolar foreign policy. So

• 44:39Speaker 04

  we, we had the meeting with between Zelensky and Donald Trump at the White House last week. Before that, he had a phone call with President Putin from Russia and tomahawks got taken off the table. It seems reports have said that that meeting was not a great one between Zelensky and Donald Trump and the demonstration that was shouting. There was reports of like they pushed the, pushed the maps towards the table and there was a lot of cursing from the president. And then a few days later, now there's talk about the sanctions act coming back to life. If you guys can explain to me, the layman, what the fuck the policy is regarding Ukraine, that would be awesome.

• 45:28Speaker 05

  I guess to start with a positive, the, the sanctions that were put on the two largest Russian oil, gas companies, that's a positive. Putin's came out and said it's not going to make a difference, which to me means it's going to make a difference. I really wouldn't say that. The secondary sanctions are what everybody's looking at. That's the bill you referenced in the Senate, the sanctioning Russia's that Russia act has at least 85 senators signed on. That's unheard of nowadays. But apparently Thun won't push it forward until the president gives him the green light. Not sure why we're waiting on that, that we need to cut off the spigot of the, of the funding.

• 46:09Speaker 05

  Even to China, China buys, I think forty seven percent of Russian oil, crude oil.

• 46:16Speaker 05

  At my fact rate, so that would be significant to cut off their ability to fund this.

• 46:23Speaker 05

  On tomahawks, yes, it takes a little while to be trained, but you know. The best day to plant a tree is twenty years ago, the second best day is today, right? Um, why aren't we trying? You know, and Ukrainians are smart as hell and they've got all the motivation in the world to be able to learn this stuff. So when I know they got to figure the configure it so you can launch it from land and all that, but they can do it, they can do it. That a positive that I think the White House denied. But I think actually happened is they have approved the use of Storm Shadow, which uses US data. So we're a participant in it to go to have no limits inside. Russia. So that's kind of a backdoor way of doing this, but I think, I think we're going to have to give.

• 47:06Speaker 05

  Ukraine not only the ability to defend itself, but to win. And then they start winning if we want to see Putin actually come to a summit with any intention of a ceasefire. And then of course you also have the frozen Russian assets that could be being released to Ukraine so they can buy. You know, patriots, stuff like that. Right now. Oh, there's the other thing I'd say on that. There's a lot of chatter amongst the think tanks. It's like, maybe Europe should take over the negotiation. Because uh, we're not, we're just not getting very far uh, with convincing Putin it's in his interest to. Have a ceasefire in this country.

• 47:44Speaker 06

  Mick, did you say they, so that, that part confuses me about Storm Shadow because Storm Shadow is exclusively European. It's. What's it? The M D, M B, D A. It's a European consortium. Defense companies that, that put it together.

• 48:00Speaker 05

  Apparently they use, it uses our targeting data.

• 48:07Speaker 05

  That's the issue that's being reported that the US

• 48:10Speaker 06

  Well, I see, okay.

• 48:10Speaker 05

  has not only approved, like, you can still use our targeting data and shoot things inside. And they've, they've reduced the authority to make these decisions to the UCOM commander bypassing, or not bypassing, but so the SecDEF and his staff are no longer making the decision. He's given it to the UCOM, which the idea is that he's going to approve more.

• 48:36Speaker 06

  So we, we are going to provide our intelligence for Storm Shadow hits.

• 48:42Speaker 05

  Yes, that's what's to be on report.

• 48:44Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 48:45Speaker 05

  I think the White House denied it, but I think that's political or part of the negotiations not to acknowledge that we agreed to.

• 48:53Speaker 06

  So, I mean, Storm Shadow's formidable weapon. It's like, I forget, it's like, it's, I, I believe, I mean, it's a, it's another subsonic cruise missile. And I, I don't have the data to hand, but I

• 49:06Speaker 04

  Five hundred and fifty kilometers.

• 49:09Speaker 06

  What's that? Yeah, it's pretty short range. It's pretty short range and it's got, but it's got a bigger warhead, I believe.

• 49:15Speaker 04

  Four hundred and fifty kilos.

• 49:17Jack Murphy?

  Five hundred kilometers, that gets you to Moscow, doesn't it?

• 49:21Speaker 05

  I think so.

• 49:24Speaker 05

  Slower than this Tomahawk, the Block Two of Tomahawk is fifteen hundred miles.

• 49:29Speaker 06

  Yeah, it's a huge difference in range. So according to the data you just read out, much the same payload. I think the advantage with Storm Shadow is it's, it's more accurate and it's got, I mean, both of them have, um, uh, cruise missile, you can look this up, but cruise missile's got, it's got like, in addition to GPS, it's got an infrared

• 49:53Speaker 04

  INS IIR.

• 49:55Speaker 06

  Yeah, so it's, it's an infrared navigation. So in other words, it can't be jammed by G and the same thing with Storm Shadow, but it's a different system. It's terrain, terrain profiling system. So they're both, um, they're both bypass Russian EW jamming, but I believe the Storm Shadow is even more accurate than the, uh, the Tomahawk.

• 50:15Speaker 06

  But that's not necessarily what you what you I mean the tomahawk's accurate enough and that range is really the significant thing. I I would I don't you know that's an interesting point I should know but I don't know if what was range again it's like two it's like

• 50:33Speaker 04

  It's four hundred fifty five hundred fifty kilometers so three hundred forty two miles.

• 50:38Speaker 06

  I'm not sure that does reach Moscow but I don't know.

• 50:42Jack Murphy?

  Pretty I'm pretty sure hold on keep talking I'll try to do some math here.

• 50:46Speaker 06

  That's gonna look it up. But the real the key issues where is you know Russian refineries right that's what the Ukrainians are going after now with considerable success and they've depending on who you read or what media outlet even the most conservative are saying that they've they've slowed Russian oil production final production by you know by a third some go as high as almost a half so that's that's significant and given the tomahawk they they could they could certainly do greater damage and they can go after the of course the Shahed factories and wherever they are Kyrgyzstan and all these other things.

• 51:31Speaker 04

  There's a massive one in Russia that's like out there it's probably a thousand miles in.

• 51:36Jack Murphy?

  Yeah that so yes it definitely gets you to Moscow.

• 51:41Speaker 04

  I have a question like you know Storm Shadow is made by a European company conglomerate you know all right and we you know the Ukrainians have been using the US intelligence for since the beginning of the war even before it so I don't know what the holdup would be like you can't use our intelligence that we're already given you to use a European weapon to shoot into military and you know oil refinery targets in Russia like I don't know why that's a stop like why do we need like why do we need to okay that it's just we've been okaying them to do covert stuff like

• 52:16Speaker 05

  Well, to me, we should have said right from the beginning when we knew they were going to invade that it's if they invaded that we're going to prove everything that they needed to win. Right? We keep doing this where we we publicly debate whether we should give enough the F16s or the Abrams or the HIMARS or and then we wring our hands and clutch the pearls and all that stuff and then it gives Putin the chance to say what he wasn't always going to say is well, it's a complete escalation and we're going to nuke. Just we should just approve these things and now it's easier said than done without the debate.

• 52:45Jack Murphy?

  It's it's interesting. It's, you know, a lot of my my friends, you know, would probably make the argument. I know they they have made the argument that this is the same criticism they have about the Vietnam War. That it was like this seesaw effect. There'd be a pause in fighting because of the Paris peace negotiations and it would just kind of go back and forth forever. Um, we're doing that in Ukraine right now. It's like, why do we keep doing this little drips and drabs, little baby steps? Getting towards something. I I realize there's like this escalation matrix that you have to think about a little bit. But so many of those norms, so many of those um fears we had have now been destroyed. I mean, we've seen all kinds of things that were unimaginable previously.

• 53:28Jack Murphy?

  And it seems that unless we have like NATO troops storming towards Moscow, Putin's not going to use nuclear weapons. So to your point, Mick, I I agree. Like, just give them everything they need to win the war. Like, let's stop dragging this thing out.

• 53:43Speaker 06

  We were either we're either supporting Ukraine or we're not. And and we've never understood that. It's we are providing lethal aid. That is the that is the that is the red line decision, right? It's not the range of weapon systems or the number of range weapon systems. And we've drip fed weapons and allowed Russia to adapt. As they indeed they have done and they've done pretty well. I mean, you know, HIMARS was effective for about two or three months and then the Russians learned how to jam it.

• 54:13Jack Murphy?

  And we let we let Putin run this psyops on us that like he pretends he's negotiating for peace and we humor it. That's not what he's doing. Come on. He's just fighting for time.

• 54:27Speaker 06

  Same thing with the TACMS. I mean, we gave them, we gave Ukrainians 12 HIMARS, you know, we didn't it? I mean, we didn't even give them enough for. I mean, barely enough for one per division, and the Russians easily, easily learned how to counter that. Same thing with the Tachim's. I don't think, I don't think that,

• 54:53Speaker 06

  I don't think we've really ever, I mean, two things, to Jack's point, we've never understood Putin. And secondly, we don't understand the, just the dynamics of providing military aid, that, you know, countries adapt in war very, very quickly. And Russia's always been strong at electronic warfare. They have massive systems every 10 kilometers along the line. The Ukrainians, I mean, you can look this up, D. Look up how many drones the Ukrainians are losing per month. And I think you'll see it's something astounding. It's in the thousands, right? Just to E W.

• 55:32Speaker 06

  And, you know, it's the, the methods of warfare there are beyond anything that, that our own defense industry can adapt to in a hurry.

• 55:44Speaker 04

  Estimated monthly loss is 10,000 drones per month.

• 55:48Speaker 06

  10,000 drones a month. 10,000 to E W. You know what I mean? And yet they keep churning them out. Can you imagine if that was being done to us? You know, we've got like a handful of

• 56:01Speaker 06

  MQ ones, MQ nines at 30 million bucks apiece. We'd lose those right off the bat in the first couple of hours. That's what I mean by the fact that we're all prepared. We don't have, we don't have the ability to generate 10,000 drones a month. I guarantee you that.

• 56:19Speaker 04

  What's interesting about that is you see so many, like in the startup space, there's so many drone companies that are popping up, you know, like for the, particularly for the US.

• 56:28Speaker 06

  And the differences in Ukraine, they're all tied into the industrial defense establishment, you know, high tech and defense are.

• 56:39Speaker 06

  are together and the Ukrainians, I think we talked about this on the show, but they've just developed a unmanned tank because armored vehicles are proving to be absolute, they're proving to be a liability. Okay. And, and tanks was, you know, armored personnel carriers, infantry fighting vehicles, no one uses that, those things anymore. There are, you know, they See the Russians on dirt bikes and stuff. Absolute death traps. Yeah. Yeah. Every, you know, every single Bradley that we provided to the Ukrainians has been blown away. What are they using? They're using motorcycles and they're using, you know, and,

• 57:16Speaker 06

  and foot mobile infantry well dispersed to do infiltration. Um, and so what the Ukrainians had done, because you, because as much as I laugh at marine tankers, and I still think they're absurd in their opposition to us getting rid of them. I know I don't, it's like, I don't want to open myself up to that. But the point is, you still need a rolling gun platform, a rolling gun platform, direct fire capability, reaching out to two to three clicks, or you know, or even four in case, yeah. Whatever sort of terrain you're in, whether you're fighting a mount or you're fighting an open terrain, that is an incredibly useful weapon to have. The problem is that once you put human beings inside, it becomes,

• 58:01Speaker 06

  it becomes larger, slower, less maneuverable and more vulnerable. Well, the Ukrainians now have a, an unmanned tank that uses, um, I mean, it's, you can look it up and figure out what it's called, but it uses A1, A1 AI.

• 58:23Speaker 06

  The sauce? It uses AI for target acquisition. Uh, and, uh, and, you know, my point with that is you don't even need an operator to be, to, with a narrow field of view. You, you've got a, I mean, they obviously, there's some disadvantages with using AI for target acquisition within, in a tank. But the point is, they've developed it and, and I guarantee you, within a few months, they're going to mass produce these things. Probably at a decent price too. Yeah.

• 59:00Speaker 06

  Yeah, I mean, because they are essentially expendable. They don't have human beings inside.

• 59:06Speaker 05

  Mostly expensive taxes is based on trying to protect the humans inside, right?

• 59:10Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 59:11Speaker 05

  That's why they're so heavy and so expensive.

• 59:13Speaker 06

  If you can generate, if you can have hundreds of these things on the battlefield, can you imagine? Hundreds of these things rolling in on you, being able to target human beings automatically. Covered by drones.

• 59:29Speaker 05

  It's called the Phantom UGV.

• 59:33Speaker 05

  Two are cyber over lords. That's what it's called.

• 59:40Speaker 05

  By the way, do you, are you polite when you ask, when you talk to chat GPT? I am. You know they'll take over one day, right?

• 59:46Speaker 04

  I'm relatively polite until it starts fucking around and I get kind of upset with it. And I'm like, you gotta look at this before you fucking send me it. I'll drop an F-bomb in there. And he's like, I'm so sorry.

• 59:56Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, that, that's the same thing I tell you, Dee, when you send me stuff, you use AI to generate.

• 1:00:01Speaker 06

  Yeah. Well, listen, Dee talks dirty to Siri, so I think you're asking the wrong guy.

• 1:00:08Speaker 04

  Sorry, I missed that. I don't know what you guys are saying. Better off, probably.

• 1:00:14Speaker 04

  Um, all right. Also a bit of news. Uh, there was an agreement between Sweden and well, Saab and Ukraine. To sell Ukraine a hundred to a hundred and fifty Saab Gripen E's, which is a fourth plus generation fighter. Which is probably perfect for Ukraine too, because like they're able to like land and, and, and take off on like a fucking highway and stuff like that. I feel like that's probably gaps for what they need. So, um, Europe is stepping up for sure, I think, right? So, and this is definitely not a cheap package. I think it's like a hundred and fifty million a unit per, per, per plane, but that's with like the weapons and stuff like that. So.

• 1:00:52Speaker 06

  They've been talking about that for a while. I'm glad it's finally gone through.

• 1:00:58Speaker 04

  Um, anything else? I mean, we could touch on Gaza and like the precarious situation there. The peace is still kinda, I guess, holding a little bit, even though Israel seems to be bombing the shit out of Gaza still. Um, I mean, we could touch on that.

• 1:01:13Speaker 05

  I mean, the, uh, with the trip of Vice President Vance, I think it's pretty clear that the US wants to see the entirety of the 20-point plan happen. Uh, while he was there, the Knesset voted on annexing part of the West Bank, and you saw his pretty direct reaction. And then President Trump basically saying the US would cut off all support to Israel if they did that. I mean, I don't know if you could get any more direct than that. So it, it, the ceasefire is holding. You're gonna see skirmishes because that's just gonna happen. Um, the aides coming in, which is great, obviously. My group spends a lot of time on that. And well, the biggest, the biggest issue is Hamas disarming, right?

• 1:01:58Speaker 05

  Um, they're, they're gonna have an issue disarming because they're very vulnerable, even though on the plan it gives sanctuary and potentially safe passage. I don't know the country that would take, I don't know, 5,000 Moss people.

• 1:02:11Speaker 08

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the Food Allergy Podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 1:02:26Speaker 09

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:02:37Speaker 08

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you, you're not alone.

• 1:02:42Speaker 10

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 1:02:48Speaker 08

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the Food Allergy Podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeartRadio app today.

• 1:03:08Speaker 02

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• 1:03:39Speaker 05

  And then, then this international stabilization force, which Secretary Rubio said recently, I think during his visit, is being established. Right? So I haven't seen really any indication of that.

• 1:03:54Speaker 04

  Who's the bulk of that? Indonesia?

• 1:03:56Speaker 05

  Well, Indonesia volunteered Egypt, Turkey, but Turkey's a big issue for Israel. Israel said they don't want Turkey in there. The US came back and said tough. So, I mean, it's clear that the US is being a little tougher on Israel than in the past. So whether it'll have an effect or a long-term effect, we'll have to see. But the big issue is, what are we going to do with Hamas collectively?

• 1:04:23Speaker 05

  Are they going to be allowed to stay in Gaza? Are they going to be confined to a certain, like, Hamas section? Are they going to be forcibly disarmed, which means they may just combat?

• 1:04:34Speaker 05

  So the big, the long pole attempt is the disarming and demilitarization of Hamas.

• 1:04:41Speaker 04

  Anybody? Boys? Andy? Jack?

• 1:04:44Speaker 06

  Yeah, I mean, I, I, not, most of what I've, what I'm about to say, I've, I've said before in some shape or form, you know, the bottom line is, and I always preface this discussion with this comment, that at least it's an agreement. At least it's something that, that was hard to imagine three months ago, but the devil is in the details. And there are so many details that are potentially problematic. And Mick just hit on a couple of them, along with the nature of the security force. And the government itself, you know, who's going to administer Gaza, while Palestinian Authority

• 1:05:23Speaker 06

  supposedly meets certain criteria that enable it to do so, you know, I mean, and, and is the PA even capable of doing that? And then you've got... You've got some interesting dynamics among the local, the neighboring Arab countries, or just countries in the region. Mick commented about Turkey and Turkey being the Turkish contribution to Gaza's security force being something that the Israelis oppose. But you know, the Arab government and the Egyptians, I think, are probably the only, the only potential donor of security forces that are credible right now, as far as a

• 1:06:08Speaker 06

  country that has agreed to do that. Easier to deploy. Egypt has a history in Gaza. In fact, Egypt owned Gaza until 1967. They weren't particularly popular occupiers there either, but more popular than the Israelis. And of course, there's a, you know, cultural affiliation. But that's not, but Hamas is always going to remain a problem. I mean, the Egyptian government has no love of Hamas. In fact, that's one of Sisi's biggest concerns is that during all of this, that Hamas was going to get increasing support within Egypt. All of which is to say, yeah, it's great that the killing has stopped for now.

• 1:06:53Speaker 06

  Most of the killing has stopped for now. It's great that some aid is getting in and that there is at least, and the US has its weight behind a peace plan. But the, there's no more clarity on the details than well, one month ago, and time is ticking.

• 1:07:08Speaker 04

  All right. So we'll keep track of this. Jack, what do you got? Not much. That's about it. Okay. I want you guys to do me a favor. Before we go, check out Mick's new podcast, Pub on the Porch, The Applied Stoicism. Link is in the description. It's a great pod. Andy Milburn's got a great book, When the Tempest Gathers. Link is in the description as well. Jack Murphy's wrote a plethora of books. Some would say he's writing too many books. No, I'm joking. He's got a great book, We Defy the Secret History of Special Forces. That link will be in the description. High Side, his outlet with Sean Naylor, the guy who wrote the book on JSOC. Where they do deep dive investigative stuff. They have some crazy shit cooking up. I can't

• 1:07:52Speaker 04

  mention and I won't mention publicly. It's awesome. Check that out. The high side sub stack. It's down in the description as well. And where can you support the show? I'll tell you where. Thank great question. Patreon.com slash the team house. You get both team house and Izan episodes ad free early and you help support the show. We keep doing this. Guys, as always, it's a pleasure. If you, if you, do you guys have anything else you want to say you want to plug something else?

• 1:08:19Speaker 06

  Yeah, I want to plug a suggestion that the team house have an offsite party this year, maybe in Dubai.

• 1:08:27Speaker 04

  Is, is, yeah, is that in the, is that in the, the, the budget, Jack?

• 1:08:32Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:08:32Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, we're gonna like fly everyone out there.

• 1:08:35Speaker 04

  Yeah. Well, Andy's kind of close, so he'll be cheap to get there.

• 1:08:40Speaker 06

  You only, you only need you guys out there. I mean, a lot of people can attend remotely. Mick and I will attend at first.

• 1:08:49Speaker 04

  We'll take that under advisement. Yeah.

• 1:08:53Speaker 04

  All right, guys. Always a pleasure. Thank you.

• 1:08:56Jack Murphy?

  Thanks, guys.

• 1:08:57Speaker 04

  Thanks, everyone.

• 1:09:00Speaker 04

  Hey, guys, how's it going? It's D. I want to thank you for watching the show. I really appreciate it. I love for you guys to check out our Patreon. It's at Patreon.com slash the team house. Um, link is in the description. Super easy to find. If you're listening, it's in the show notes as well. You can find it right there. What do you get? You get ad free audio, ad free video for both Izan geopolitics and the team house podcast. So two podcasts ad free for the price of one. You also get the shows a couple of days early on both video and audio and you have the opportunity to shoot us a message, ask questions, whether it's team house or Izan, we could cover topics and stuff like that. It really, really helps support the show.

• 1:09:45Speaker 04

  We really appreciate the patrons that are there now. We couldn't do it without you guys. So consider supporting the show. It's at patreon.com/the team house. The link is in the description.

• 1:09:57Speaker 08

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 1:10:12Speaker 09

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:10:22Speaker 08

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 1:10:28Speaker 10

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 1:10:34Speaker 08

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart radio app today.

• 1:10:54Speaker 14

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• 1:10:59Speaker 12

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  10 bucks for 30? I'm headed over to spinquest.com right now.

• 1:11:16Speaker 03

  Spinquest is a free-to-play social casino. Void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details.

• 1:11:24Speaker 04

  And in the show notes, if you're listening to us on audio, really appreciate it, guys. Thank you.

• 1:11:29Speaker 08

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 1:11:44Speaker 09

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:11:55Speaker 08

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 1:12:00Speaker 10

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 1:12:06Speaker 08

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At The Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At The Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

• 1:12:26Speaker 12

  Hey, guys. Lady Luck here. I just love the fall season. Chris Mornings Pumpkin Spice Latte. And it's the best time to cozy up and play Spin Quest. They have over a thousand different slots in all my favorite casino-style games. And they're running a deal for all new players, a $30 coin package for just $10. So this fall, grab your favorite blanket, visit spinquest.com and download the app today.

• 1:12:50Speaker 03

  Spin Quest is a free-to-play social casino. Void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details.

• 1:13:03Speaker 08

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At The Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 1:13:17Speaker 09

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:13:28Speaker 08

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 1:13:34Speaker 10

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 1:13:39Speaker 08

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At The Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At The Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

• 1:14:00Speaker 15

  Oh, I have had no luck lately. Wait, lady luck?

• 1:14:04Speaker 12

  Bretsky, I got you. I've had so much luck on spinquest.com. They have all of my favorite games, slot games, live blackjack craps and bubble craps. You can even get a $30 coin pack for just 10 bucks.

• 1:14:18Speaker 15

  10 bucks for 30? I'm headed over to spinquest.com right now.

• 1:14:22Speaker 03

  Spinquest is a free-to-play social casino. Void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details.

• 1:14:35Speaker 08

  Hi, I'm Jenna Ushkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 1:14:50Speaker 09

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:15:01Speaker 08

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 1:15:06Speaker 10

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 1:15:12Speaker 08

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

• 1:15:32Speaker 15

  What's up, everybody? It's Bretsky. It always sounds like a good idea, get the whole family together for the holidays. But if your family's anything like mine, by the second minute of dinner, there's a political debate going on and I just want to get the hell out of there. That's when I grab my phone and play on spinquest.com. It has all my favorite slots and table games for free with the ability to win real cash prizes. Head over to spinquest.com or download the app today.

• 1:15:56Speaker 03

  Spinquest is a free-to-play social casino. Void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details.

• 1:16:09Speaker 08

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 1:16:24Speaker 09

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:16:34Speaker 08

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 1:16:40Speaker 10

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 1:16:46Speaker 08

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat, it's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

• 1:17:06Speaker 02

  Forget whatever plans you have this weekend, because you're staying at home and playing on Spin Quest. And there's never been a better time to sign up than right now. New users get $30 coin packs for just $10, all the table games you love, with hundreds of slot games and real cash prizes. That's at spinquest.com, S-P-I-N-Q-U-E-S-T.com.

• 1:17:28Speaker 03

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• 1:17:43Speaker 08

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 1:17:57Speaker 09

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:18:08Speaker 08

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 1:18:13Speaker 10

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 1:18:19Speaker 08

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

• 1:18:40Speaker 02

  Forget whatever plans you have this weekend, because you're staying at home and playing on Spin Quest. And there's never been a better time to sign up than right now. New users get $30 coin packs for just $10. All the table games you love, with hundreds of slot games and real cash prizes. That's at spinquest.com. S-P-I-N-Q-U-E-S-T dot com.

• 1:19:02Speaker 03

  Spin Quest is a free-to-play social casino. Void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details.

• 1:19:17Speaker 08

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 1:19:31Speaker 09

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:19:42Speaker 08

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 1:19:47Speaker 10

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 1:19:53Speaker 08

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

• 1:20:13Speaker 12

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• 1:20:37Speaker 03

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• 1:20:44Speaker 00

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• 1:22:38Speaker 03

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