Whoopi Goldberg Gets Real About Fame, Money & Marriage

Whoopi Goldberg has spent her career turning “no” into opportunity. She tells Keke how she created the groundbreaking one-woman show that inspired today’s The Whoopi Monologues when no one would hire her, landed Ghost after Patrick Swayze stepped in, and became an icon by redefining what Hollywood thought was possible. She also opens up about why marriage isn’t for her, asking for what you’re worth, speaking her mind on The View, and why every woman needs her own “hell with it” money. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Keke Palmer?

  Now, listen, there are some people you grew up watching, and then there are people who shape how you see the world. Whoopi Goldberg is one of those people for me, and I'm sure all of you. A woman of many firsts, someone who broke the mold, refused to fit into anybody else's idea of what she should be, and in doing so, changed what was possible for so many of us. Becoming the first black woman to achieve an EGOT status is just one part of that story. Because beyond the accolades, it's always been her honesty, her freedom, and the way she's shown up as her full self that has stayed with me. And for me, right now, feels like a full-circle moment. So let's get into it. Because, baby, this is Keke Palmer, and this is Whoopi Goldberg.

• 1:16Keke Palmer?

  Today's episode is brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Seventh Generation. I know I'm extra. They know I'm extra. We've made peace with it. But my cleaning products don't get to be extra. They get to work. Seventh Generation keeps it simple, so I don't have to pretend otherwise. Let's get into today's show.

• 1:37Speaker 01

  Hi, gorgeous.

• 1:38Keke Palmer?

  Hi, gorgeous. I'm always... It's so funny, we were talking about before, you know, we got into everything, is how I don't remember meeting you. I just remember always knowing you in my life.

• 1:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, I feel the same way. I feel the same way. And I... Because I was looking, and I'm thinking, you're all grown up. It's just like, I got all teary-eyed and stuff, you know? It's like, oh, my goodness, because I've... Yeah. I've known you a long time. Yeah, it does.

• 2:04Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, you've known me forever, you know what I mean? So it's really cool to be able to have this conversation with you and get into all the questions that I've always wanted to know and ask.

• 2:12Speaker 01

  Well, we can't, but let me just give you your flowers. I've watched you work your tail off and evolve, and work your tail off and evolve, and work your tail off, and this is your moment. And I love seeing you in all the movies. I love seeing you here. I love seeing the progression. And I'm so proud to say, I got to... I'm getting to watch this. I'm getting to watch it. It's so cool.

• 2:37Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh, I just love you so much. It means the world to me. And you know what I also think about when you're just saying this? Because I feel that you've always seen these things for me.

• 2:47Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:47Keke Palmer?

  Um, because even when other people really did not see it.

• 2:50Speaker 01

  And you weren't sure that you saw it either.

• 2:52Keke Palmer?

  Yes, I could not have even almost imagined all those things. But I remember in these specific moments, when even I first started doing my character's sketch work with Lady Miss Jacqueline, and you'd always tap my hand and you would say, "Keep going." And you would just remind me to keep... That, girl, that meant everything to me. And finally, I'm writing that children book. Because you remember you told me that.

• 3:15Speaker 01

  Yes, I did.

• 3:16Keke Palmer?

  I'm finally writing that.

• 3:17Speaker 01

  Good.

• 3:17Keke Palmer?

  So, yeah, this is crazy to me, because now I feel like I forgot something important. Because what is your sun sign?

• 3:22Speaker 01

  I'm a Scorpio.

• 3:23Keke Palmer?

  Oh, of course you are. Of course you are. Girl, you are Scorpio to the core.

• 3:29Speaker 01

  I'm a Scorpio Scorpio.

• 3:31Keke Palmer?

  Wait a minute, you're double?

• 3:32Speaker 01

  I'm a double Scorpio.

• 3:33Keke Palmer?

  So you're rising and you're moon, or...

• 3:35Speaker 01

  Whatever it is.

• 3:36Keke Palmer?

  It's double.

• 3:37Speaker 01

  It's double, yeah, because you know.

• 3:39Keke Palmer?

  Exactly, because it gets a bit much after a while.

• 3:41Speaker 01

  It's a lot, you know?

• 3:43Keke Palmer?

  So, do you feel very Scorpio? What about you feels very on-brand to Scorpio and what maybe doesn't?

• 3:49Speaker 01

  Well, I feel like I should care a lot more about stuff, and I don't.

• 3:55Speaker 01

  I just, you know, and in relationships, I'm, you know, I'm fine while I'm fine, and when I'm not, I'm not.

• 4:03Keke Palmer?

  Okay.

• 4:04Speaker 01

  So it's just, it's very, it's very clear.

• 4:07Keke Palmer?

  And you feel like it's always been that way throughout your life? Or do you feel like that's how you evolved into? Like, but when you think about your early twenties, were you always kind of like, eh, it is what it is?

• 4:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, I... Because I had my kid, you know? So I didn't have to... I didn't have a lot of, you know...

• 4:23Keke Palmer?

  Playing around time.

• 4:23Speaker 01

  Fooling around. It was, you had to be decisive when you're, you know, when you're raising a kid and you're a single parent. And so I... It's always been very clear. My mom was very clear with me, you know? So I was able to evolve into whoever I became and whoever I am now. And the same with my kid, you know? It's like, when you have somebody who, who says to you, "Listen, your choices are your choices, and you'll make them." They're not always going to work out. But if you stand behind what your choice is and you can explain it, you don't have any problem.

• 4:57Keke Palmer?

  My mom always said that same thing. I think about that every time I make any decision in my life. Could I stand behind it?

• 5:02Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 5:02Keke Palmer?

  If somebody were to find out that I did this right here, right now, could I be okay with that?

• 5:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:06Keke Palmer?

  If not, why am I doing it?

• 5:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:08Keke Palmer?

  You know what I mean?

• 5:09Speaker 01

  Or why haven't I just said, "Hey, this is what I did," and keep it moving? Because it's already done. It's not like you can undo it.

• 5:15Keke Palmer?

  Exactly, yeah.

• 5:16Speaker 01

  These are the... This was my life. And I'm not apologizing. This is what I did. I paid whatever dues or prices I needed to, and I don't have to explain it to y'all.

• 5:25Keke Palmer?

  Okay.

• 5:26Speaker 01

  You know?

• 5:27Keke Palmer?

  Yes. What would you say is your love language? Have you heard of this kind of thing before? Where it's like, um, it could be acts of service. It could be physical touch, words of affirmation. How do you show love, and how do you usually receive it?

• 5:41Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 5:44Keke Palmer?

  Right. Never thought about it. Yeah.

• 5:45Speaker 01

  No, it's never been something that I've thought about. I just, if I'm showing you love, I'm showing you love. However it is, it's... You know, you'll, you'll know it when you see it.

• 5:57Keke Palmer?

  It's so funny to me, because I feel like sometimes you, probably most of the times, you're dead-ass serious.

• 6:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:02Keke Palmer?

  But it make everybody laugh.

• 6:05Speaker 01

  Because I think what makes people laugh is the idea that many more people would like to be as I am. And they don't realize that it is your choice. You can decide to be who you are, or you can follow other people. You know, if you know that, if you realize that everybody's not going to understand or get you, as long as you can live with that, that's okay. You don't owe anyone an explanation unless you choose to give somebody an explanation.

• 6:38Keke Palmer?

  And it's so funny that we have such a hard time with that when, even when we try to do everything right, still, everybody doesn't love us. So it's kind of like, why do we even put ourselves in this trick bag? Because it's like, either way you do it, everybody don't love you.

• 6:50Speaker 01

  The question is, why do you care? These are people who don't know anything about you. They don't know you. They don't know your life. They don't know your day-to-day struggles. They don't know anything about you. And yet, feel confident enough to, to pass judgment on you.

• 7:05Keke Palmer?

  Which is crazy.

• 7:05Speaker 01

  The question is, do I care what you think? And the answer is, no.

• 7:10Keke Palmer?

  Oh, I couldn't agree with you more. Especially in this day and age where anybody can say anything about anyone, and you assume that just because you're reading it on your phone or you're seeing it commented on your page, that the person that says it somehow is of value. More often than not, they ain't nobody you wouldn't be cool with.

• 7:26Speaker 01

  No.

• 7:26Keke Palmer?

  So why would you care?

• 7:27Speaker 01

  No.

• 7:27Keke Palmer?

  What they think, you know?

• 7:29Speaker 01

  I think we've sort of become a, a, a human race that requires a lot of affirmation.

• 7:37Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 7:38Speaker 01

  You know?

• 7:38Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 7:39Speaker 01

  And affirmations are good, but they are like drugs, you know? And you find yourself doing things to get that, that pat on the back. And it's a lot easier if you don't read people's comments. You don't need to read them. If there's something you need to know, somebody will tell you. Who's on your team or in your life, they'll say, "Oh, this is what happened." You say, "Okay." Or you say, "Don't, I don't need to know any of this. I just, I'm just putting the information out so people know what I'm doing."

• 8:10Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 8:10Speaker 01

  I don't care if they, if they don't want to come, they don't have to come. I don't need to know that you mad at me and you not coming. I don't care.

• 8:16Keke Palmer?

  Right, right. It's so true.

• 8:18Speaker 01

  I would know if you were there.

• 8:20Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, right.

• 8:21Speaker 01

  Because you were a stranger. A stranger.

• 8:25Keke Palmer?

  That might mean you in danger, girl.

• 8:27Speaker 01

  That's right. That's right. That's exactly right.

• 8:30Keke Palmer?

  Yes, so true. What is a question you wish you were asking in interviews? Or a question you'd never ask, that you'd be like, eh, would somebody ask me about that?

• 8:40Speaker 01

  Listen, after all these years, I don't know what they haven't asked me. You know, my bra size.

• 8:46Keke Palmer?

  Okay.

• 8:47Speaker 01

  You know, but I don't wear one, so I wouldn't have an answer. You know, I wouldn't have an answer for them.

• 8:52Keke Palmer?

  In the words of your line, "I want to be comfortable."

• 8:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:56Keke Palmer?

  I want to be comfortable.

• 8:56Speaker 01

  I want to be comfortable. I do not want to be uncomfortable anymore. And these are my, these are choices I make.

• 9:04Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 9:04Speaker 01

  You know, I make those decisions.

• 9:06Keke Palmer?

  But still so fashionable, too. It's so interesting when you say that, because you're also a fashion icon, from your hair...

• 9:11Speaker 01

  Which makes me laugh.

• 9:13Keke Palmer?

  To your lipstick. I mean, everything about you can be emulated, because it's so specific.

• 9:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:20Keke Palmer?

  But then it's you just kind of like, hey, you don't even really think about it. Like, what, what is your, your POV of fashion? And the fact that you are a fashion icon to so many?

• 9:29Speaker 01

  Well, I think it's so lovely for people to say that, but it wasn't always that way. There used to be a lot of talk in the old days about how odd I dressed. Because I wore sneakers to the Oscars.

• 9:44Keke Palmer?

  I'm always so sick of it.

• 9:45Speaker 01

  I didn't want to put my feet in those high heels. Some, when I want to do it, I do it. When I don't want to do it, I make, you know, I'll put combat boots on, under a gown. I don't care. Because I really don't want to be uncomfortable in what I'm wearing. Which is why the whole bra and underwear thing is, you know, is a choice, is a choice.

• 10:07Keke Palmer?

  Yes. Sounds so freeing.

• 10:10Speaker 01

  Well, it, it is, but there are certain things that have to happen. You have to become a person of a certain age, where you're not worried about what your body is going to do.

• 10:20Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 10:22Speaker 01

  So you can do that when you've a woman of a certain age. You can free it all up, but you have to wait. You have to wait.

• 10:30Keke Palmer?

  Is there anyone that you've met that made you feel starstruck?

• 10:35Speaker 01

  Oh, almost everybody. Because you know what? I'm a fan of people. I'm a fan of actors. I'm a fan of directors. I'm a fan of writers. I'm a fan of dancers. I'm a... I am, I am the person who wants to see your show.

• 10:50Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 10:51Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? I come, and I'm rooting for you because... I want, I want you to take me away. Or I want you to write something that blows me. I just went to see, and if you, I don't know how long you're here. But I just saw Ragtime last night. And when I tell you.

• 11:08Keke Palmer?

  It was great. Me and my parents were looking for a show to go see.

• 11:10Speaker 01

  This is, Keggy, this is one of the most exquisite musicals. And this cast, they're over at Lincoln Center. It is spectacular. I'm telling you, go and see it. Because what it does is it, it, it gives you a really wonderfully general explanation of this country. How all the different people have come and how, how we tried to avoid each other. How we just ended up mixing in with each other. Which is why we have so many different, I don't know, so many different languages. So many different feels, so many different looking people.

• 11:54Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 11:55Speaker 01

  And to realize that people have always treated immigrants rather nastily. They've always treated women like they're dumb. You know, all of these things. But in this piece, it all comes together. And it is, it was a great movie. It's a spectacular book. But this cast, this is one of the best things I think I've ever seen on Broadway, ever. And they're not on Broadway, but they're at Lincoln Center. It is one of the finest pieces of work I've ever seen.

• 12:32Keke Palmer?

  I'm definitely gonna be checking out the way that you've said this.

• 12:35Speaker 01

  Please go see this. I'm, I'm, I'm saying to everybody, it, it, you know, I love a good show. I love a great show. The voices in this.

• 12:44Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my God, in this.

• 12:46Speaker 01

  Baby.

• 12:47Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 12:49Speaker 01

  You, I mean.

• 12:50Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 12:51Speaker 01

  It's heaven.

• 12:52Keke Palmer?

  I'm also excited because obviously you broke, you know, the mold with your one woman show in 1984. At, with the Whoopi monologues. And you're actually getting ready to do a production again with five actresses.

• 13:04Speaker 01

  Actually, I'm not doing it. I, what I said, it's Carrie Washington's baby.

• 13:08Keke Palmer?

  She's put it together.

• 13:09Speaker 01

  She put it together.

• 13:10Keke Palmer?

  And it's Carrie, it's Cara Young, Whitney White.

• 13:13Speaker 01

  Baby, it's all these, it's these dynamic women. And she always, she makes a joke and says it takes five of us to do one show. That she did. But it's not so. It is, these are all pieces that you could just do by themselves. Which is why it's kind of exciting to see what they do with it.

• 13:33Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 13:34Speaker 01

  Because the material is the material. But what you do with it and how you interpret it, this is why I, I say, I'm not going to rehearsals. I'm not going, I'm not going to be anywhere until opening night. Because this is their show now. And I want to see what they do with these characters.

• 13:52Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my God. Wolfie, when you, when you put that together, did you really know that it was that great? Like, did you, because sometimes an artist is like, oh, this is [BLEEP]. And the other times they're like, hey, this is just what I had to say. And then it becomes, for you, would, did you feel that it would have the weight that it has had all these years?

• 14:12Speaker 01

  No, but, but I, I knew that because I couldn't get hired, you know, at the Old Globe. I couldn't get hired at the Berkeley Rep. I needed to put together something that showed what I knew I could do. You know, and so I, I had just come from Amsterdam where I'd spent some time. And, and I thought, because I ended up going to the Anne Frank House. And I thought, man, this is like insane.

• 14:43Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 14:43Speaker 01

  And so going through there, I thought, oh, who is the, who's the person you would never think would tell you the story of the Anne Frank House and why it's important? And I thought, if I put it in the mouth of a junkie who has a PhD, you know, this, this is the person who can tell you what he saw. And how it made him feel. And how he wants to tell you how it made him feel. And then leave it in your hands. You know, there's a disabled lady who, she's, she's not disabled. She's differently abled. That's the better word.

• 15:28Speaker 01

  Because I had a friend who said to me, who was in a chair for years, who said to me, how come you never do characters like me? I was like, because I don't want anybody to get mad at me. He said, I, I got you. You show me. And so about six, seven months, I thought about it and I, I created somebody. And I did it for him. And he said, that's exactly what I wanted to see. I wanted to see somebody who recognized me as a human being with human desires and human wants and human needs. Because people see people in chairs and they feel like they don't have any, there's no life for them. But everybody's got life in them. Everybody, you know? So I, I wanted to do that.

• 16:11Speaker 01

  And then there's the, the lady from Jamaica who gets picked up by this very, very old man. Uh, who she ends up really falling in love with. And he's called the Old Raisin. Because he's very wrinkled.

• 16:27Speaker 01

  Everywhere. And he buys her what she calls a puzzle rug. It looks like a puzzle rug, but it's something from what used to be known as Frederick's of Hollywood. And they have this great passion. And then he dies. And he has left her everything. She had no idea. She'd been working for him for maybe two, three years. And then they kind of would hit and run and hit and run. And he left her everything. And it is a story of, of being open for anything. It's just anything is possible. So all of these things came in my head. Because there's always chatter going on.

• 17:11Speaker 01

  And so sometimes I, I, I could talk it and then get somebody to write it down for me. But it's really the constant, constant chatter. And so it'll be great to see how other people interpret that chatter. And see where they go with it.

• 17:29Keke Palmer?

  When you get on a stage, what is the process? And do you, are you in your body the whole time or do you leave it?

• 17:40Speaker 01

  It depends on what I'm doing. If I'm just, like, I used to do Vegas a lot. I'd go and I, I didn't do the characters there. I would just do my rendition of stand up, which is just storytelling. So when I'm storytelling, I, there's bits and pieces of different characters, but not really. But when I'm in the character, I'm in the character. And whatever happens, it has nothing to do with me. It's them and they take over the body, you know? And I'm lucky that way because I, stage is very, is very comfortable for me. I love it. I think that you can fly on a stage. You can do anything.

• 18:21Speaker 01

  So I don't necessarily have to create a story. I just know where I want to start. Like, I, I'm, I've begun to start working on maybe getting on stage, just doing a little bit of stuff. Because, you know, I just turned 70. And.

• 18:39Keke Palmer?

  That's crazy.

• 18:40Speaker 01

  It is crazy. Nobody is more shocked than me. I know. Nobody is more shocked than me. Every time I say it, it's like I have, I'm repeating it for myself to make sure I get it. But I was, I was scratching my face and rubbing my face. And I was like, wait a minute. Is this a whisker?

• 19:04Keke Palmer?

  I'm howling.

• 19:04Speaker 01

  Do I have a whisker? Now, I started out, you know, with, with, what's the guy in, uh, he's the Speaker of the House now, Johnson? I started out with Mike Johnson in my lab. Then I woke up one day and it would, and it was Paul Shaffer in my lab. And now Paul Shaffer, Mike Johnson's on my face. You know what I mean? Because, you know, he's got all that hair. So I started out with Mike Johnson in my lab. Went to Paul Shaffer in my lab.

• 19:47Speaker 01

  And now Mike Johnson is on my face.

• 19:49Keke Palmer?

  Yo, whoopee, please.

• 19:52Speaker 01

  You know, this is the kind of stuff that comes to me out of nowhere.

• 19:56Keke Palmer?

  And was, I mean, you said before, you know, I'm a little kid that grew up in the projects that became the luckiest person on earth.

• 20:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:02Keke Palmer?

  Were you doing this as a kid and not knowing that it was a skill? Or that it was a talent or a gift?

• 20:08Speaker 01

  No, I was watching and absorbing because my mother and her cousin, Arlene, would do characters to each other. They would be talking [BLEEP] about people. They'd be talking about, oh my God. And they would, and they did every group, every sex. They would just, they'd be men, they'd be women, they'd be just talking to each other, just talking about what somebody was doing and telling stories to each other. And that was all going in my head. And my brother was funny. My brother was, Clyde was funny. Clyde was very funny. So I grew up with people who are much funnier than I was.

• 20:53Speaker 01

  But what I figured out is they poured all of that into me. And I, I got us over the line.

• 21:01Keke Palmer?

  Oh, yes.

• 21:04Speaker 01

  I got us over the line.

• 21:05Keke Palmer?

  Because I always talk to people about my family. And people assume that when I'm in my family, I'm the loudest one, I'm the most talkative. No. My family is full of characters. My dad is one of nine boys, all crazy, kooky folks. And those are the people that I am emulating.

• 21:21Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 21:21Keke Palmer?

  My love, my pride for them, whatever visibility that was not accessible to them becomes through, comes through me.

• 21:28Speaker 01

  And you get them over the line.

• 21:30Keke Palmer?

  Yes, yes. Wow. Your mother has said, or you quoted your mother, Emma, saying, cry about what you don't have or figure it out and then go do it.

• 21:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:39Keke Palmer?

  And you said something earlier on in the conversation that I really, I really want people to, especially creatives and just entrepreneurs, to understand. Because you said when you decided to do the monologues, it was because no one, you know, you need people to see what you were doing. That means you invested your time, you invested your money, you were the person that stepped in first.

• 22:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:02Keke Palmer?

  And I don't know that everybody understands that, hey, that's what it, that's what it takes.

• 22:06Speaker 01

  Well, that's what it is. You know, if, if you're not getting what you need, then create what you need and, and hand it out. Let folks see it. You know, there's all of these, there's YouTube channels, there's Instagram and, you know, X or whatever, and all these places you can begin to show your metal. Whether you are a physical artist, whether you're a vocal artist, whether you're a stand-up. There are, there's a wonderful kid who is on Instagram. I don't know his name, but I do follow him. He's now in commercials with Swiffer.

• 22:49Speaker 01

  And it was like, well done, well done. Because people don't know if you don't tell them, if you don't show them, they have no idea. And now we have the ability to show people, you know? And you can't expect it to happen overnight. You gotta, it's, it's a long process.

• 23:08Keke Palmer?

  It is.

• 23:09Speaker 01

  You know? And it ain't always fun.

• 23:12Keke Palmer?

  It's so true. And I, and I find myself, and I've seen you talk about it as well, because people want to know, people want advice, but they always don't, they don't always want to know the truth about what gets them over the line.

• 23:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:24Keke Palmer?

  You know, and I know people did the whole first on the call sheet and all these different kinds of things. The main thing that I'm always saying is like, you gotta produce what's there. And while we're fighting for more money and we're fighting for more things, you also have to know that it's going to take you. It's going to take you. I wish it were different. I think, you know, I would love for it to be people just coming up and we getting this and this. But it actually isn't true. How do we help and tell the truth and get people prepared and set up without it seeming like we're not trying to change things? You know what I mean?

• 23:59Speaker 01

  Well, it's, it's, it's always like this. It's like this, I think just in life, people, you know, you hear people saying, and you guys, you're the older generation and you didn't fight for this and you didn't. It's like, I'm sorry. Sit down.

• 24:15Keke Palmer?

  Literally though.

• 24:17Speaker 01

  We, we did fight for this.

• 24:19Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 24:20Speaker 01

  You know, they talk about being, we would never sleep. Women that I grew up with were never asleep. So you can't wake them up. They've had to always be on point and know what they were fighting for.

• 24:35Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 24:35Speaker 01

  And how to fight for it. Because you can't just go out and, and smack people. You have to explain, and it's a pain in the ass.

• 24:43Keke Palmer?

  It is.

• 24:44Speaker 01

  But you have to explain to people why this is what you want. And they're not always going to give you what you want, but they can't lie and say, I had no idea. You, you, you have to be able to temper yourself.

• 25:03Keke Palmer?

  Mm, mm.

• 25:05Speaker 01

  Because you, we always think everybody knows everything, but they don't.

• 25:10Keke Palmer?

  Because ain't nobody thinking about you, really. You know what I mean? Hate to say it, but it's like, they're not.

• 25:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:14Keke Palmer?

  So it's like, if you're thinking about you, you've got to be willing to do the thing. And it's so funny, because I remember for me, personally, when I was doing my sketch work, when I was creating these characters, when I identified the character of Keke Palmer making her way through in comedy. I did a series called That's the Gag, Awesomeness TV, Brian Robbins. For, for, you know, this is for YouTube, this is not, I'm a traditional actor. People were commenting on my page. This is crazy. You need to go back to, you need to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Now, 10, 15 years later.

• 25:48Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 25:49Keke Palmer?

  Baby, this Keke Palmer is opening up SNL.

• 25:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:53Keke Palmer?

  This lady, Miss Jacqueline, has her own IP. And what I always try to tell people is that nobody saw it then, though. Remember the, hold on to the moment.

• 26:03Speaker 01

  They just were mad.

• 26:05Keke Palmer?

  Now, wait a minute.

• 26:06Speaker 01

  They were mad.

• 26:07Keke Palmer?

  Now, wait a minute.

• 26:08Speaker 01

  Because they didn't think of it themselves. And they didn't have the balls to do it. That's the other thing. You gotta be ballsy. You can't, it's, you have to be. This idea that, you know, you're trying to, you know, who, who, who. No. This is who I am and this is what I do. Here it is. Period.

• 26:28Keke Palmer?

  I mean, how do people stop asking for permission? You're, I mean, again, my heroes, the people that I look up to are people like you. You know, you did that. I watched you, I studied you, I want you to be my version of that brave person. Were you really just, oh, did you never, was there never a moment where you asked for permission? And if you had to figure out how to, how did you do it?

• 26:50Speaker 01

  I think I, I must have asked for permission at some point. But I don't remember it being important enough to hold on to. Because if I ask you for permission, I've wasted seven minutes talking to you, trying to explain what I want, when I could have just gone and done it and then showed you what I want. I could have just showed it to you.

• 27:16Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 27:17Speaker 01

  You know, but so, you know, and, and just, you know, you get a lot of no's. You get a lot of no's, a lot of no's, or you're not quite what we're looking for. So, well, how do you know that? How do you know what you're looking for? If you don't expand your horizons, you will only look here. And that's kind of what they're hoping to do. And this is really about women, this is about color, it's about lots of different things.

• 27:46Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 27:46Speaker 01

  But it is really, you know, we, no woman is going backwards. No woman is going to go backwards. We, you, you let the cat out of the bag.

• 27:56Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 27:58Speaker 01

  Soon as you said, hey, you can go to college, you know, I don't have to. Women went to college, women started working, women took over a lot of stuff.

• 28:07Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 28:08Speaker 01

  A lot of people got mad. That's what, you? It's like, yeah, me. You know? And they've got all these people, all these young people coming up and they're saying, hey, well, why do we have to pay attention to this? Because if you don't, it will disappear. That's why.

• 28:26Keke Palmer?

  That's so real. That's so real. And the concept of how we fight to maintain something and have the stamina to sustain it, it's difficult in these times because you feel like, man, we, we, ain't nobody going backwards. And then you see actual government, government things actually trying to put us backwards.

• 28:44Speaker 01

  Yes, but here's the, here's the fabulous thing about a storytelling people, of which we are and Native Americans are, the Irish are. They would tell a story. Because we are an oral people, you can take down as many signs as you want to. That's not going to stop us telling the stories. We know our history. The Irish know their history, the Japanese know their history, the Chinese know their history, black folks know their history, women know their history. You can't stop the oral part, because that would mean you'd have to get into our brain and shut it down.

• 29:24Keke Palmer?

  And you can't do that.

• 29:25Speaker 01

  You can't do that. So people need to remember why it's important to always talk about what you know, who you are, where you've been. Native Americans, they know, they know their history. They know how they saved us in World War II with the code talkers. It's not on, take it off any wall you want to. But that doesn't mean it didn't happen. And as long as we can talk, we will continue to tell those stories. And you can run and hide and pretend they're not there, but it doesn't mean they're not.

• 30:01Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 30:02Speaker 01

  So don't sweat that stuff. I don't sweat it anymore.

• 30:05Keke Palmer?

  That's very empowering. It is, especially when you feel like they're, you know, I'm always trying to figure out, you know? And look, the thing about it that I've also had to understand and realize is that there's not much that I can really do. Obviously, I can do, I know there's a great quote, I always say it from Mother Teresa, no great things can be done, just small things with great love. So it's perspective is always, I'm always looking for the perspective that helps me to, to see my way out of something, you know? What is something that your family knows about you that you feel the public maybe still doesn't get? Or, or, you know, doesn't understand?

• 30:44Speaker 01

  So much. So much.

• 30:53Keke Palmer?

  I am by every definition, a lot. My outfits are a moment, my reactions are gank. I've been called dramatic in three different group chats this week alone. And every single time I said, correct. That's just who I am. And honestly, I've made peace with it. But somewhere along the way, I learned there's a difference between extra where it counts and extra where it's just showing off. And my old cleaning products were absolutely showing off and doing more to cover up than to actually clean. Girl, sit down. So I switched to Seventh Generation. Bio-based cleaning power that handles the job without the theatrics. Plus, no dyes, artificial fragrances, or bottles full of ingredients auditioning for a part they didn't get.

• 31:38Keke Palmer?

  It just works. And it doesn't need to announce itself while it's doing it. Seventh Generation provides a powerful clean without anything extra. So if you already bring the extra to the function, make the switch today to Seventh Generation. A powerful clean without anything extra. My son Leo sees everything. I mean that literally. The kid misses nothing. Every detail, every person, every moment that most adults would walk right past, he is fully present for all of it. Traveling with him has genuinely changed the way I move through the world because he reminds me to actually be in it. And what I've learned from traveling with Leo is that the best trips aren't about where

• 32:21Keke Palmer?

  you go, they're about what you're dropped into when you get there. A neighborhood that has character, you know, a home that has a backyard and a kitchen and a living room big enough to actually live in. A super host who points you toward the coffee shop and the park and the spot that doesn't have a sign but absolutely should. When I book a stay on Airbnb, for us, it's not just finding a place. I'm building the world he gets to explore for those few days. And watching him explore it, that's the best part. This is Leo's summer. Find a home on Airbnb and build that world for your kids. There are two versions of me at any given moment.

• 33:03Keke Palmer?

  There's the version that is on the way somewhere, locked in, unbothered, do not interrupt me, I have a purpose. And then there's the version that sees a Starbucks and just turns, mid-stride with absolutely no hesitation. The second one is my favorite version, especially in the summer. I'm the one who orders a tropical butterfly refresher, guava and passion fruit flavors, these mango pineapple flavored pearls that pop in your mouth, and a butterfly pea flour infusion on top that just shifts the color of the whole drink right in front of you. And I stand there watching it happen like it's the most important thing that happened all week because it might be. One small choice can lead to a whole shift. Unlock your best summer memories with the tropical butterfly refresher from Starbucks. Order now on the app.

• 33:50Speaker 01

  Um, the public kind of, the public gets me. They don't always like me, but they get me.

• 33:55Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 33:56Speaker 01

  You know?

• 33:57Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, I mean, it's so interesting seeing you on The View. And you're constantly, what made you even want to get on that show?

• 34:05Speaker 01

  I needed a job.

• 34:06Keke Palmer?

  You know what I mean?

• 34:07Speaker 01

  I needed a job. Barbara offered me a job. She said, we, we just lost one of the people on the show. Would you consider coming over? And I had been doing a radio show.

• 34:19Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 34:19Speaker 01

  And I said, absolutely, yeah. And so she brought me over and it's like I've been crazy glued to that chair.

• 34:27Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh. What do you love about it? Because I mean, first of all, the show is called.

• 34:32Speaker 01

  I love the check.

• 34:34Keke Palmer?

  I can only imagine what that check is.

• 34:37Speaker 01

  No, no, you can't. No, trust me. You can't.

• 34:42Keke Palmer?

  I love it.

• 34:43Speaker 01

  You would be shotless and you would be shocked.

• 34:45Keke Palmer?

  And welcome to The View. I can play her, guys.

• 34:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, but as soon as they showed you that check, you'd be like, what the?

• 34:52Keke Palmer?

  That's incredible.

• 34:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:54Keke Palmer?

  I love it. Praise God, praise God.

• 34:56Speaker 01

  It is what it is.

• 34:57Keke Palmer?

  But you are always bringing it. Like you could phone it in, but you're always having a POV, you're always giving your view. And sometimes that puts you on the front lines of being attacked or praised. But you've been doing it forever. So what, what do you say is the way that you maintain? You know, that kind of visibility?

• 35:17Speaker 01

  I look around every day before I leave my house. And I see my family and I see pictures of folks and I think, oh, yeah, it's good to have a job. And I come to work.

• 35:31Keke Palmer?

  Yeah. Yeah, because at the end of the day.

• 35:34Speaker 01

  A lot of people don't. A lot of people don't have jobs right now. So I'm lucky. I, I like to talk. I like talking about stuff. I like people. And I'm okay with what I think I believe.

• 35:48Keke Palmer?

  Mm-hmm.

• 35:48Speaker 01

  You know, and I don't mind doing that. And even when it irritates people, it's not what the show is. It's not irritation necessarily, but it is called The View.

• 35:59Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, scratches your mind.

• 36:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:01Keke Palmer?

  Yeah. Um, I'm curious because every comedian that I or somebody, people that can consider a comedian or comedic actor, or someone that jokes, is always very intellectual. You know, they, they have so, it's always so much more than, than what the joke is presented. And so it just makes me ask to you, why do you think comedy is very rarely seen in the same prestige of drama? Meaning, like, I think about the Academy Awards and I think about the character work that comes with some of these things that we just consider a silly comedy. And I just wonder why, why is it, why does it not? It's so hard to make somebody laugh and it's so hard to take a real situation and make it funny.

• 36:47Speaker 01

  I think it's, it's, you know, because it's subjective. What you like doesn't necessarily go with what I like. Like, I loved that the two Academy Award, two Academy Award winners this year were in horror movies.

• 37:10Keke Palmer?

  I feel similarly about horror.

• 37:12Speaker 01

  I love my horror movies.

• 37:13Keke Palmer?

  Yes, because genre, it's a gives, comedy and horror are similar touch point of helping you to, it penetrates you in a way for you to take something deep in.

• 37:23Speaker 01

  Well, it's just, I mean, it's, it's all one thing. It's all one thing. It's your emotion. You know, it's just, it's just your emotions. But I like the thrill.

• 37:33Keke Palmer?

  Mm-hmm.

• 37:34Speaker 01

  That I get from something like The Exorcist.

• 37:37Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh, yeah.

• 37:38Speaker 01

  You know? I just, it's, I just really like that. And so watching Michael B. portray two people.

• 37:47Keke Palmer?

  That was so good, that movie.

• 37:49Speaker 01

  And win, and win, you know?

• 37:53Keke Palmer?

  I was thrilled.

• 37:54Speaker 01

  It's like, come on, and Amy Madigan.

• 37:56Keke Palmer?

  Uh, that weapons role?

• 37:58Speaker 01

  Baby.

• 37:58Keke Palmer?

  Talk about character.

• 38:00Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 38:00Keke Palmer?

  That lady was jumpscare on the screen.

• 38:02Speaker 01

  And she, and she is, she is.

• 38:05Keke Palmer?

  Shout out to Ed Harris.

• 38:05Speaker 01

  As good a, a, an actor as you can find. Ed's fabulous, but Amy is no joke.

• 38:13Keke Palmer?

  Come on, I mean, talk about range, Uncle Buck.

• 38:16Speaker 01

  Hello, hello.

• 38:18Keke Palmer?

  You remember that one?

• 38:19Speaker 01

  Yes, you know? It's, it's, it is just, you know, it's like they, they used to say comedies never win, you know, but then Cher won.

• 38:29Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 38:30Speaker 01

  And then I won.

• 38:31Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 38:31Speaker 01

  You know, and so it's subjective.

• 38:34Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, it's something that I always think about because I just, again, I just love comedy. But speaking of your characters, how many, and just what we've been talking about, about carving your lane out, how many of your roles were written for you where they were like, hey?

• 38:47Speaker 01

  Two.

• 38:50Speaker 01

  Color Purple.

• 38:51Keke Palmer?

  That Color Purple. Damn, that was so.

• 38:54Speaker 01

  It was great, yeah. Mano Mayis wrote that. And he wrote that with me in, in mine, which is great.

• 39:00Keke Palmer?

  I just can't with you, Whoopi, because it's just too much. When I think about you and your work, it is like seeing so many different people. It's like actually brand new people. The fact that that person is the same person in Ghost and that's the same person that's supposed to, it's.

• 39:17Speaker 01

  I would like to think that one of my favorite actors would be very happy to hear you say that, Marlon Brando. Because people would say.

• 39:27Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, amazing.

• 39:29Speaker 01

  You know? You see, you'd go to see the movie, you see Marlon was in it, you see him for a second and then he disappeared into the character. That's what I want. That's what I want. And so, you know, when I was, um, when they were casting Ghost, I found out about it because somebody came to lunch at my house and said, girl, I just been at this audition. Every black woman and their mama was there. They got women out the grave to come and audition for this. And I hadn't gotten a call.

• 40:01Keke Palmer?

  Out the grave.

• 40:02Speaker 01

  Out the grave. I mean, it was like, it was wonderful. Beverly Todd, I was, it was Beverly Todd. She said, they, child, they came out the grave. And I said, what movie is this? So she tells me, I say, oh, she said, you haven't heard? I said, no, nobody, nobody said anything. And then after we finished having lunch and stuff, I thought, well, let me, let me just call my agent and see, did I miss it? Or you called me and I blew it off or what? He said, I said, do you know about this movie that every black woman? And I heard him just go, oh, who told you? And I said, my friend Beverly Todd, he said, I, I said, what's the matter?

• 40:44Speaker 01

  He said, we suggest you, they didn't want you because they felt you would take people out of the movie. And I said, how would I take them out of the movie? I mean, I don't understand. And they said, well, you know, and, and as it turns out, the casting director had been saying, you need to call, you need to talk to Whoopi Goldberg, you need to talk to, and they, they wouldn't do it. And then they hired Patrick Swayze. And I was in Alabama shooting, um, Long Walk Home with Sissy Spacek. And an AD comes and says, you have a phone call, so you have to run it. Because in those days, there's no cellphone. So you gotta walk all the way over to the office.

• 41:29Keke Palmer?

  I'm howling.

• 41:30Speaker 01

  Just, you know, and you pick it up and you, which line? Oh, you hit the line and say hello. And it's my agent. He says, you remember that movie they didn't want you for? I said, yeah. He said, well, they hired someone and he's going to be the lead and he, he wants to, he wants to be in it with you if it interests you. I said, oh, okay. Do, do they know I'm down in Montgomery, Alabama? Said, yeah, they're, they're willing to come down there.

• 41:59Speaker 01

  I said, who is it? He said, it's Patrick Swayze. It's Patrick Swayze and the director want to come down to see you. And I said, okay. So they came down and Patrick and I hit it off right away because I, he's just a really funny, wonderful man, and I love the director. And the next day after they left, because they literally flew in, we had some fun and did some improv and worked together. And the next day, they offered me the part. And he kept saying, why haven't you called her? Did she turn it down? Does she not want to do it?

• 42:43Speaker 01

  They were like, and they finally had to say to him, no, we thought it would be too much for her to, it would just weigh it down in a way we didn't want it.

• 42:52Keke Palmer?

  People are so crazy.

• 42:54Speaker 01

  Well, you know, they, I guess they thought, I don't know what they thought.

• 43:01Keke Palmer?

  They don't either.

• 43:02Speaker 01

  But, but the, but the casting director, who I love, and I'm, I'm kicking myself because I don't have her name at hand. But she was, she was, she had been my champion all the way through. And when they finally hired me, she said, you see? I told you.

• 43:19Keke Palmer?

  Another story of you advocating for yourself, though. What happened with Sister Act?

• 43:24Speaker 01

  Which one?

• 43:25Keke Palmer?

  The, you getting into the role.

• 43:28Speaker 01

  It was for, they wrote that for Bette Midler. That wasn't mine.

• 43:32Keke Palmer?

  How did you get up there and take that lady movie?

• 43:34Speaker 01

  I didn't take it. I was looking for work. I was looking for work and, and everybody always has.

• 43:43Keke Palmer?

  I was looking for work.

• 43:44Speaker 01

  Well, but it's true because apparently I'm black.

• 43:49Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 43:50Speaker 01

  And I guess I didn't realize it.

• 43:53Keke Palmer?

  Okay.

• 43:53Speaker 01

  So every time I went looking for something, they were like, oh, no, no, no, this isn't for you. So I'd start, and I started, I said to my agents, give me all the stuff that people have turned down. So I got Burglar that way because that was Bruce Willis's movie. Jumpin' Jack Flash was Shelley Long's movie. There's several, a whole bunch of movies. I got.

• 44:19Keke Palmer?

  Hey, y'all, call, what's the Jennifer Lawrence didn't want? Yeah, yeah, send it to me.

• 44:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I felt like people really wanted to make those movies. And then the person they wanted said, no, let me see what I could do. That's why I loved when you said, you know, you did this and this and this. And it was always different people. I was always the character that was written. And I think because people 30 years ago, 40 years ago, had a limited idea of what could be done.

• 44:56Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 44:57Speaker 01

  And had a limited idea of what I could do. Because clearly they hadn't seen my show. So they didn't know. So I did them and, you know, listen, they didn't always work at the box office. But when they got on television, people lost their minds because people didn't always have money to go see the movie.

• 45:14Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 45:15Speaker 01

  But they could see it on TV. And that's how we got all, a lot of my movies have become these kind of classics because people went, oh, that's what that was about?

• 45:24Keke Palmer?

  Mine as well. None, even this early, I mean, even the first Akilu B, a lot of people think about Akilu B as this iconic classic hit tanked in the box office.

• 45:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:32Keke Palmer?

  Not a success. That's why this whole thing with success and, and, and to me, real impact is truth, consistency over time. Visibility is not always a part of that. Everybody might not be talking about you all the time, but the work stands the test of time.

• 45:48Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 45:48Keke Palmer?

  You know?

• 45:49Speaker 01

  That's it.

• 45:51Keke Palmer?

  You are the first woman and black woman to host the Oscars solo, 1994. The first black woman to achieve EGOT status. The first black woman to win a Grammy for Best Comedy Recording. The first black person to score Academy Award nominations in acting and supporting acting categories. The first black woman to receive the Mark Twain Prize for American Humor. The list goes on and on and on. People often, obviously, bring up these things when they say your name. And it must, I just wonder from you, does it really resonate? Like, when you hear that and think about everything that you've done, what does, what flashes in your mind? How do you view?

• 46:31Speaker 01

  You really want to know?

• 46:32Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 46:39Keke Palmer?

  I've said it, I've heard it. We all know the saying, you need to go see that lady. And sometimes, you know, we give an excuse. I'll deal with it later. It's probably too expensive. What if it doesn't help me? Meanwhile, we're still struggling and somebody's worried. But with some research, I found out about Rula. It's a real healthcare company. Sessions average about $15 with insurance, and they tell you that cost before you book. Providers are vetted, outcomes are tracked, and the majority of patients report genuinely feeling better. You can find someone who specializes in exactly what they're going through. Don't talk yourself out of therapy because you think it'll cost too much, won't work, or you have no idea where to even start.

• 47:23Keke Palmer?

  And trust me, that advice goes both ways. If you're ready to stop talking yourself out of finding care and making progress, then head to rula.com. That's R-U-L-A dot com. And take the first step. So I need to talk about something that has been taking up a lot of my mental real estate lately. It started casual. I just stopped in, wasn't even planning on it. And now, now I'm thinking about it in between meetings, telling people about it who didn't ask. This is a tropical butterfly refresher from Starbucks. And I am fully aware of how it sounds right now. Guava and passion fruit flavors, mango pineapple flavored pearls that pop, and this butterfly pea flower on top that shifts the color of the whole drink right in front of you.

• 48:08Keke Palmer?

  It's beautiful and delicious and mesmerizing. I don't know where this is going, but I'm not asking questions. Unlock your best summer memories with the tropical butterfly refresher from Starbucks. Order now on the app.

• 48:27Speaker 01

  The flash is in my mind is, is this going to help me pay my rent? Is this going to pay the mortgage? I mean, because, you know, there, listen, every accolade I've received, I, I am grateful for.

• 48:41Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 48:42Speaker 01

  But it doesn't always translate into.

• 48:46Keke Palmer?

  You better speak the truth about this.

• 48:48Speaker 01

  It doesn't always translate into work or people, you know, it's nice that I have all those things, but do I constantly have to say to people, you know, I'd like to work with you? Yeah, because I'm not, I'm not, I don't come right up in your mind. I'm not the first one you think of. So I constantly say to people, yes, I'm still open for this. And especially now, because people say, well, you're on The View, you can't do anything. You know, if I need to go, I go.

• 49:15Keke Palmer?

  Okay.

• 49:16Speaker 01

  If I need to go.

• 49:16Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 49:17Speaker 01

  She'll tell you.

• 49:18Keke Palmer?

  It's interesting because we have these concepts of traditionalism and what is most prestigious. And a lot of times people get wrapped in that, well, because you are an Oscar nominated actor, you can't do this and blah, blah, blah. Would you even, and then you're talking about paying the bills and money. I mean, would you say The View is the best paying job you've had over the course of all the things you've done?

• 49:36Speaker 01

  No.

• 49:37Keke Palmer?

  Oh, it isn't? Okay.

• 49:38Speaker 01

  No.

• 49:39Keke Palmer?

  Okay, now that's tea.

• 49:40Speaker 01

  No.

• 49:41Keke Palmer?

  But I'm just, I bring it up to just say that I think a lot of times we assume that what we think is the most prestigious or what we think is the most dope for our title also resonates to what we're receiving in our pocketbooks.

• 49:54Speaker 01

  No, you know, the truth of the matter is very few of us are actually making the kind of money you're reading about, you know? It's, it's just, that's just the way it is. And, and, you know, people always do wink, wink. And I'm like, no, no wink, wink. Because if I had that kind of money and I love my job, I don't know that I'd still be doing it.

• 50:17Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a good question.

• 50:19Speaker 01

  I don't know that I'd still be doing the show. But a girl's got to eat. And, you know, I never married well. So I still have to support myself.

• 50:29Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, period, period.

• 50:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:32Keke Palmer?

  It's so real. Me too. I ain't married, but I don't know how it would go if I do.

• 50:37Speaker 01

  Well, just always remember that it's important that you marry somebody that you like, who makes you happy and will annoy the hell out of you. But that you always make sure you have what you need also. It's no, it's no put down on your husband or your wife or whatever, wherever your, your mind is. But you always have to have your little portion of the sky.

• 51:03Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 51:04Speaker 01

  You know, this, this is my, the hell with it money. You know, that's not what I was going to call it, but I didn't, I'm not sure how far you can go with the words.

• 51:13Keke Palmer?

  Okay.

• 51:15Speaker 01

  This is your hell with it money. You must always have your own hell with it money.

• 51:19Keke Palmer?

  My mom always told me this.

• 51:21Speaker 01

  Yes, it is very important. It's important for your own well-being. Because I, somebody said this to me years ago. It's all fun and games when people say, yeah, that man has to have this, he has to have that, he has to have this. But what happens if he dies and all his money goes to his other family or his kids or to his mother or whatever? You have to have yours. You have to have yours so you can survive no matter what happens. And that has always stayed with me. Always stayed with me. Make sure you take care of what you got to take care of for, for yourself.

• 52:05Keke Palmer?

  As an artist.

• 52:06Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 52:07Keke Palmer?

  And when we're constantly, you know, because I'll, I'll say this for me. Not everything, but more often than not, I could see myself doing what I do for free. I love talking to people. I love performing, I love entertaining, all that's fun and that's enjoyable.

• 52:24Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 52:25Keke Palmer?

  But the reality is, is we have to eat, we have to, you know, live our lives. How do, how does one?

• 52:33Keke Palmer?

  Because obviously, the industry is never gonna value you, of your true value. No corporate, no, no industry ever could do so.

• 52:40Speaker 01

  No.

• 52:40Keke Palmer?

  So how do you measure your value? How do you know when it's time to ask for money? And when it's time to, actually, the relationship is more important here. And that might turn into something more. Like, what are the ways in which you know when maybe this job isn't gonna be about the money? This job is gonna be about the work? How do you measure it?

• 53:00Speaker 01

  Well, I, you know, I have friends who make movies. And I do a little piece in their movie and say, I just did, you know, you needed some, so I did it. You know? And then there's the things where you say, listen, you want me to do this and this and this, and you only giving me this. That's not gonna work for me.

• 53:17Keke Palmer?

  Mm-hmm.

• 53:17Speaker 01

  And you have to be able to say, I need this. And you have to know, and you have to, you know, you have to fight.

• 53:23Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 53:23Speaker 01

  And you have to, you know, put up with folks saying, well, you know, I could get somebody else. You have to be able to say, alright.

• 53:32Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, that's true, that's true. And however they may take it.

• 53:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:36Keke Palmer?

  I had a thing like that happen where I had to, you know, step back. And I, you know, respectfully did so, but also knew, hey, it might affect the relationship. I don't know.

• 53:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:48Keke Palmer?

  But this is what's working for me.

• 53:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, we're taught for some reason, or we have been taught, and we're still teaching people that there's something wrong with saying, I need you to pay me.

• 54:01Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 54:01Speaker 01

  Like, it's, like, you're not supposed to do that. But the truth of the matter is, you know, you got stuff to do. Now, don't get me wrong, cuz I like the finer things in life. Cuz I'm a bougie kinda girl.

• 54:14Keke Palmer?

  Okay.

• 54:15Speaker 01

  So I do make sure that my bouginess is taken care of.

• 54:18Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 54:19Speaker 01

  But you must always ask for what you want. And sometimes you gotta negotiate, and you gotta meet in the middle.

• 54:25Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 54:26Speaker 01

  But you, it, it's up to you to say, this is what I need. And when they say yes or no, you say, okay, well, if this is, if this is where we are, here's where I am now.

• 54:38Keke Palmer?

  Right.

• 54:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:39Keke Palmer?

  And I think, you know, in my mind, it's like, that could go either way.

• 54:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:43Keke Palmer?

  That could go either way.

• 54:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:45Keke Palmer?

  Not, not wrong or right, not, not necessarily right, I should say. But it is the cards that we're dealt as artists, as people, not even just as artists. Um, this is my favorite quote from you.

• 54:56Speaker 01

  Okay, let's make sure it's one of my quotes. Cuz you know, there's a lot of.

• 55:00Keke Palmer?

  I hope this is, because this is one of my favorites. I don't want anybody in my house.

• 55:05Speaker 01

  Yes, except it wasn't said like that.

• 55:08Keke Palmer?

  What was it said? I don't want anybody in my, what was it?

• 55:10Speaker 01

  No.

• 55:13Speaker 01

  I said, I didn't wanna live with anybody.

• 55:15Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 55:16Speaker 01

  I just don't, I don't wanna live with anybody.

• 55:18Keke Palmer?

  So why do people get all, you know, so I feel the same way?

• 55:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:22Keke Palmer?

  I mean, I live with my sisters, and obviously, my son, that's one thing, you know what I mean? But why is it so crazy when women say stuff like that?

• 55:32Speaker 01

  I think because people want you to believe that you need to be in a relationship.

• 55:39Keke Palmer?

  Why do they want that, though?

• 55:40Speaker 01

  I don't know, but I, I, I am in a relationship with my family. They are enough, they drop their stuff everywhere, they do all the stuff that, you know, I don't need, I don't need somebody I kinda just met, like, 10 years ago, whatever. I don't need them in the house. I'm just, I'm barely dealing with all the family in the house.

• 56:02Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 56:02Speaker 01

  So that's why they don't live with me.

• 56:04Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, I also feel like, like, I love love. I'm always open for love, platonically, romantically, hopeless romantic, all that kinda thing. But, um, and this is through, obviously, trial and error and experience. I just have realized that I don't value connection if it doesn't allow me to be my full self.

• 56:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:27Keke Palmer?

  I don't wanna feel in any relationship. And this is why I'm so grateful to have the family that I have. They let me be me. That doesn't mean I don't consider them.

• 56:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:35Keke Palmer?

  That doesn't mean I'm not respectful.

• 56:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:36Keke Palmer?

  That doesn't mean that I don't center them when the moment calls for it.

• 56:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:41Keke Palmer?

  But there is this idea, um, not everybody, right? But I think, you know, majority is that love has to cost you you. That there's this idea that in order to have true connection, your expression of your love, your expression of engagement is simply not enough.

• 57:03Speaker 01

  Well, it, it probably, that's probably true. This is why I'm not interested in a relationship. Because I don't wanna have to think about you. I don't. I don't wanna have to think about what your needs are, why you're upset. I don't wanna have to answer questions about why you're mad at me. I, you know, I, I'm happy for you to be at your house. I love a hit and run.

• 57:28Keke Palmer?

  Okay.

• 57:28Speaker 01

  I love a hit and run.

• 57:29Keke Palmer?

  And also, some of the things that you're mentioning, in my mind, I wouldn't even put them on anybody else, because that's my [BLEEP].

• 57:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:36Keke Palmer?

  Whatever happened to, it's my duty to make sure that I'm happy. It's my duty to make sure that I'm okay. It's my duty to deal with, you know, but, you know?

• 57:45Speaker 01

  Well, I wrote a book called, If Someone Says You Complete Me, Run. Yes. Cuz it's, it's, that's not the, that's not what I need from you. I don't need to complete you. I just need to do, I need to do me. And I need not to feel bad, or to make myself less than, in order to make you feel better.

• 58:09Keke Palmer?

  Like, it just doesn't make sense.

• 58:12Speaker 01

  Well, it makes sense to lots of people, cuz lots of people do that. Lots of people let themselves be diminished by their partner. And I don't think that's a good thing for anybody. This is one of the reasons for me, that I'm, I, I don't mind being not attached.

• 58:33Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 58:34Speaker 01

  I'm okay being not attached, cuz I love lots, I love lots of people. Lots of my friends, I love them to pieces, maybe a couple here and there. But, but not, you know, not that thing that, and I tried. I tried to be married several times. I tried to, like, do it. I kept thinking, I'm doing this wrong. And what I was doing wrong was trying to be not me, but what they wanted, the me they wanted me to be. And it was too, you know, and I'm very cranky. So I get just very pissy, very pissy, and then it's like, I can't do this anymore.

• 59:17Keke Palmer?

  That's me too.

• 59:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:19Keke Palmer?

  And that's me too. And I feel like, again, you know, when I, when I say the things I say, a lot of times, people think that that means that I'm not hoped for, that I'm being bitter, or they put all these negative attributes to it. But I, I'm just, I just love how you speak to these things, these conversations. Tracee Ellis Ross also speaks about it too, where why does a different ending than what you expected mean that it didn't work out?

• 59:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:46Keke Palmer?

  Just because somebody likes being on their own?

• 59:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:50Keke Palmer?

  Doesn't mean that they don't like connection. It doesn't mean that they don't have connection. It just means that there's a different way to live your life. And what if that is okay? Like, you don't get married, you know, it doesn't last. Why is that so, eh?

• 1:00:04Speaker 01

  Well, listen, anytime somebody tells you about getting married, you just remind them that Goldie Hawn and her husband, Kurt Russell, have had this magnificent relationship for years, and they didn't get married.

• 1:00:21Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:22Speaker 01

  So it can work, it can work. You just, it requires you to put the effort in, if that's what you want, you know?

• 1:00:30Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, yeah, I love that. I just love hearing that, and I love getting those, having those conversations, so that, I think other people need to be encouraged that it's okay, it's great to have love. We all love having sex, more of that. But, you know, on the other side of that, it's, you know, there's so many other ways to fulfill your life, too.

• 1:00:48Speaker 01

  Well, yes, and don't forget, and you don't know this yet, but you will, it will come to you at some point. Sex ain't everything. It lasts, it's wonderful, it's wonderful while it's happening, it's, but there has to be more to whatever you're doing than just that. Or, just call it what it is, a hit and run. Hit and runs, as I said, are fantastic. But if you're going to involve yourself with someone, it should be in a wider scope, because they may not always be able to fulfill what you need.

• 1:01:31Speaker 01

  Does that mean the relationship is done? You know, so it's, it's.

• 1:01:35Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:37Speaker 01

  Girl, with all the new toys that are out there, please.

• 1:01:43Speaker 01

  Get a toy.

• 1:01:44Keke Palmer?

  I remember there was another good advice you had told me where you said, I don't know what I had said, maybe something like, they don't know how to plea- something about pleasing you was like, you must know how to please yourself first.

• 1:01:52Speaker 01

  That's true.

• 1:01:53Keke Palmer?

  I was like, that was right.

• 1:01:54Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:01:55Keke Palmer?

  You must know how to please yourself.

• 1:01:56Speaker 01

  Because how can you tell anybody else what to do if you don't know?

• 1:02:00Keke Palmer?

  Girl, when you said that, I went to work that night.

• 1:02:02Speaker 01

  There you go, see?

• 1:02:06Keke Palmer?

  I want to play this game with you, but also, um, also want to mention that you've always been in the cannabis space, which I think is simply fast, uh, fabulous, whether it's, you know, topicals for pain and just always pushing up. It's so great to see how far it has come. You know what I'm saying? I remember when I was a kid and now it's like you can go right into the stores and get it.

• 1:02:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:25Keke Palmer?

  You know?

• 1:02:25Speaker 01

  And it's a wonderful thing because you can actually say the name of the plant. You know everything that's in that plant.

• 1:02:31Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 1:02:32Speaker 01

  You know, and it comes out of the ground, it grows, and I'm all for medicine that is good for your body.

• 1:02:38Keke Palmer?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:02:39Speaker 01

  You know, that, and I like things that get you high as well, but it, my focus is more on the medical aspect because lots of my friends have had cancer and I've watched over the years that it is a great way to keep people eating when they're going through, uh, chemo. Because you know, a lot of times people stop eating because they're nauseous and stuff, but with cannabis, it helps them keep their appetite, which helps them keep their weight.

• 1:03:06Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 1:03:07Speaker 01

  So it's, for me, it's a, it's a real boon, but I, I'm a big fan of it.

• 1:03:11Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, I am as well. Um, something that, we had talked about it before and I meant to come back to it when we were talking about the money and stuff. Because I'll say for me, this is one of the main reasons I've diversified. And I can beg and I can kick and I can scream to my industry and say, pay me more for this and pay me more for that. But there's a certain thing as precedent. Because a lot of times, the only, the only thing we're talking about is banging, banging, banging and then handout. It's never, here's how to get around it, here's how to make it work for you, here's how to set your boundaries and create the landscape. And so I just find myself, uh, when I hear the conversations, wanting to talk about the other side of it.

• 1:03:53Keke Palmer?

  Doesn't mean that I don't agree or understand their POV, but, you know, this is a reality.

• 1:04:03Speaker 01

  Listen, everybody will do what they need to do to get what they need. You know, if this is what you gotta do, this is what you gotta do. You know, it's always great to have allies who can help. You know, it's always great, but you will have to say it every time. You have to, you have to say it always. And I was chuckling because I was thinking about what we made when we made Color Purple.

• 1:04:31Speaker 01

  When near that.

• 1:04:31Keke Palmer?

  Probably scale. Yeah.

• 1:04:34Speaker 01

  You know, so it was, it's, you know, so I, listen, get what you can, make sure you can back up what you need.

• 1:04:44Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:44Speaker 01

  You know, and keep the fight up. And it's going to be a fight because we're not gonna be, for some reason, I'm not really sure why, because it used to be, well, you don't, you don't sell overseas. Well, that's where all my people are overseas.

• 1:04:58Keke Palmer?

  Okay, yeah.

• 1:05:00Speaker 01

  So you say, well, that doesn't really make sense. You can say you don't have the money, you don't want to pay me. That I can deal with. But don't tell me it's because of this, because I know that's not so.

• 1:05:11Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:12Speaker 01

  So you, you ask for what you ask for and you make a decision. Can I do this for this? And if I can't, then I don't.

• 1:05:20Keke Palmer?

  And I think that's what I like to spend more of my time on, and that's why I was talking so much to you about, you know, the roles that were actually made for you as opposed to the ones you had to fight for. Because I just want people to make it and I don't want them to think that it'll ever get easy. That's what I feel like, a lot of times there's this idea that you win an Oscar, work is done.

• 1:05:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:39Keke Palmer?

  You did a blah blah blah. You had a hit movie, work is done.

• 1:05:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:42Keke Palmer?

  It's just simply not true. And sometimes if you know the truth, you might say, this ain't for me.

• 1:05:48Speaker 01

  Well, here's the other thing that you have to keep in mind, is that there is a hierarchy. There are men,

• 1:05:57Speaker 01

  and then there's black men, and then there are white women, and then there are black women. And the, the scale

• 1:06:12Speaker 01

  is not equal, but it never has been. It was never equal, I don't think Betty Davis made as much as Clark Gable made, you know? And I don't think Hattie McDaniel made as much as Joan Fontaine made. So it's always, it's always going to be, you're always gonna have to fight for, you always have to fight for what you want. You don't always get it. They don't always get it. And it is a company. And the company's thing is to make money for their people.

• 1:06:44Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 1:06:45Speaker 01

  You're just a, you're part of it.

• 1:06:47Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:48Speaker 01

  You know, and so,

• 1:06:49Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:50Speaker 01

  Do your best, try to get what you can get and, and if you get more than you thought you would, yay.

• 1:06:56Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:57Speaker 01

  You know, and keep moving forward.

• 1:07:00Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, I love that. I love that. Okay, this, if I had time for the game, I'll do the game.

• 1:07:04Speaker 01

  I want to hear the game.

• 1:07:05Keke Palmer?

  Okay, the game is really cute. Yay!

• 1:07:08Speaker 01

  She's kidding. She's kidding.

• 1:07:10Keke Palmer?

  She actually hates a game. Um, this one is called Say It and Stand on It. I always end my show with a little bit of game.

• 1:07:17Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:07:17Keke Palmer?

  So I'm gonna give you a topic and a scenario and you give me your take.

• 1:07:21Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:07:21Keke Palmer?

  Okay?

• 1:07:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:23Keke Palmer?

  Cut people off quick or give them second chances?

• 1:07:26Speaker 01

  Depends.

• 1:07:28Keke Palmer?

  Depends, I love it. We love nuance. Stay friends with exes or cut it clean?

• 1:07:33Speaker 01

  Oh, I always stay friends if you can.

• 1:07:35Keke Palmer?

  Yes, don't nobody want to be my friend though, whoop.

• 1:07:38Speaker 01

  Well, that's their problem. See, that's not your problem. That is their problem. That has nothing to do with you. They can't handle it, go with God.

• 1:07:48Keke Palmer?

  Okay.

• 1:07:49Speaker 01

  But that is not your issue. So toss it, that doesn't mean it, that doesn't, if they're not smart enough to know how to be adult enough to say it didn't work, that's okay, but I liked you and that's why I was with you, because we were friends first. Okay.

• 1:08:07Keke Palmer?

  Mind your business or say something when it's wrong?

• 1:08:10Speaker 01

  Depends.

• 1:08:11Keke Palmer?

  I feel the same, yeah, it's like, hey, who, what's it involve?

• 1:08:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:14Keke Palmer?

  Um, love should feel easy or love takes work?

• 1:08:18Speaker 01

  I think it, I think both things can be true at the same time.

• 1:08:24Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, because it, because it, because it's like, you know, with my job, it takes work, but it feels easy because I love it.

• 1:08:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:31Keke Palmer?

  So I don't have my, I don't have minded. Okay. Cancel culture holds people accountable or goes too far?

• 1:08:37Speaker 01

  Again, depends.

• 1:08:38Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, last one.

• 1:08:40Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:08:40Keke Palmer?

  Chemistry matters more or compatibility matters more?

• 1:08:44Speaker 01

  I think compatibility matters more than chemistry.

• 1:08:48Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:49Keke Palmer?

  I'm learning that one. All right, this has been absolutely a time. Thank you so much.

• 1:08:57Speaker 01

  Good to see you kiddo.

• 1:08:58Keke Palmer?

  I love you, girl! Yeah, by, by the way, Sister Act 3, damn, we gotta get this going.

• 1:09:03Speaker 01

  We keep, we, oh, we're just waiting.

• 1:09:06Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:07Keke Palmer?

  See how they do? Still, we're fighting.

• 1:09:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:11Speaker 01

  Seven years.

• 1:09:12Keke Palmer?

  Two good movies.

• 1:09:12Speaker 01

  Seven years, baby, we've been fighting.

• 1:09:14Keke Palmer?

  Oh my gosh, you are just so awesome.

• 1:09:22Keke Palmer?

  Whoopi is literally everything to me, okay? She didn't just entertain us, she expanded how we see ourselves, what we believe is possible and what it looks like to live on your own terms. I thank her so much for her honesty, clarity and freedom. I mean, it means more than you know. And to everyone watching, let's hold on to that. The freedom to define ourselves is a very powerful thing. Until next time, on Baby, This is Keke Palmer.