Jocko Willink ON: Leading Like a Navy Seal & Taking Extreme Ownership of Every Problem in Your Life

Jocko Willink (@jockowillink) joins Jay Shetty to talk about extreme ownership and discipline, switching from a competition-based to a collaborative culture, building trust even in stressful situations, and mastering your self-discipline. He is a retired naval officer who served in the Navy SEALs and an author of several books including Extreme Ownership: How U. S. Navy SEALs Lead and Win. He also co-hosts Jocko Podcast that discusses discipline and leadership in business, war, relationships, and everyday life. What We Discuss with Jocko: 00:00 Intro 02:08 The most difficult thing to go through 02:57 How do you process a difficult situation and be ready to go through the experience 06:07 What you go through is your present, nothing else will matter 08:18 Are you born a leader or did experience make you one? 13:44 Working through procrastination and overthinking 18:01 Lessons learned from joining the Navy Seals 20:14 Turning a competitive and comparison based culture to a collaborative culture 26:37 Principles and methods to build trust in high stress situations 29:53 The biggest leadership mistakes and the key takeaways 33:20 Rather than beating yourself up, practice extreme ownership 36:34 Taking criticisms from someone you don’t respect 38:54 Your ego against the decentralized command strategy 43:07 When people are struggling with self discipline, where do you start? 47:06 Start self discipline by waking up earlier in the morning 49:24 Life lessons learned after leaving the military 53:20 Jocko on Final Five Like this show? Please leave us a review here - even one sentence helps! Post a screenshot of you listening on Instagram & tag us so we can thank you personally! Episode Resources: Jocko Willink | Twitter Jocko Willink | Instagram Jocko Willink | Podcast Jocko Willink | Books Achieve success in every area of your life with Jay Shetty’s Genius Community. Join over 10,000 members taking their holistic well-being to the next level today, at https://shetty.cc/OnPurposeGenius See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jay Shetty?

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• 1:26Jay Shetty?

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• 1:51Speaker 01

  If you're saying, okay, when my alarm clock goes off in the morning, I hit the snooze button three or four times. I don't want to start my day, I don't want to go face that hard workout. And that kind of procrastination, that kind of overthinking and having a debate in your own head. In those situations, I just turn my brain off and I do what I'm supposed to do. I rely on discipline, I'm going to make things happen immediately. I know that hesitation is going to bring me regret in two or three hours when I realise I wasted my morning doing something that I shouldn't have been doing.

• 2:25Jay Shetty?

  Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every single one of you who come back every week to listen, learn and grow. Now you know that I'm always on the lookout to find guests that I can have really interesting conversations with and people who've had quite extreme and different experiences. I really love finding people who've had stories and journeys that are very different from my own so that I can learn from them, so that I can be inspired in different ways and maybe even affirm some of my beliefs. And today's guest is Jocko Willink. Now, he's a retired decorated Navy SEAL officer, an author and a podcaster. He served as a Navy SEAL officer for 20 years before retiring.

• 3:10Jay Shetty?

  Since his retirement, he co-wrote the book Extreme Ownership: How US Navy SEALs Lead and Win, and co-founded Echelon Front, where he teaches his clients how to be leaders in their respective fields. Jocko also has his own podcast called Leadership and Discipline, where he talks about his approach to business, relationships and life. Jocko, welcome to the podcast and thanks so much for your time.

• 3:35Speaker 01

  Hey, thanks for having me, appreciate it.

• 3:37Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, absolutely. I've been looking forward to this conversation. I've watched a lot of your interviews with some of my friends, seen a lot on YouTube and I'm fascinated because I love how you're bringing really deep truths and difficult breakthroughs into the world of work, into the world of the mainstream life that we live today. And my first question to ask you is, what is the most difficult thing you think you've ever done, mentally or physically?

• 4:08Speaker 01

  The most difficult thing for me that I've been through is losing guys, losing guys in combat, losing my friends in combat. And it's obviously something that is completely jarring to go through. It's soul crushing. And yet, at the same time, you have to continue with the mission. The war doesn't end because you lose your friends. You have to keep fighting. And so for me, that was definitely far and away the hardest thing that I've ever been through is losing friends in combat.

• 4:38Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I mean, that does sound like the hardest thing. Do you train for that? Or is that something you have to respond to in the moment? Or you deal with afterwards? How do you even process that? The reason, reason why I ask is it's very different. The circumstances under which you've lost friends. But this year, obviously, in the last 12 months, a lot of people lost people they loved. How were you able to lead through that? Continue the mission? And when do you get a moment to actually experience whatever you need to experience?

• 5:09Speaker 01

  Well, so what's interesting about that? You know, I lost my first guy in combat, Mark Lee in, in 2006. And at that time, on the, for the, for the SEAL team that I was at, we, there hadn't been any SEALs killed in action in, well, actually I was at SEAL Team Three and SEAL Team Three wasn't around during the Vietnam War. So there had never been a SEAL killed in action. So there was no real instruction on this is what you do when, when you lose a guy in combat. Now, there was some protocols to follow in terms of, hey, this is what you have to do. This is who has to be notified. This is how the family gets notified.

• 5:47Speaker 01

  So there was protocols from a, from a process that you have to do physically to notify people. But there certainly wasn't any protocol that I had been taught or had discussed with, with people about what to do, because no one knew, no one knew, no one had experienced that in a long time. So I had to kind of figure it out on my own in, in that scenario. And, you know, what I realized we had to do was, was we had to go to work. We had to go back to work. And I, I know that that's a very difficult thing to do. But like I said earlier, the, the war was still happening. The battle was still, was still going on.

• 6:31Speaker 01

  And so we stood down the guys for, for a couple of days and we, we mourned the loss of Mark and we celebrated his life. And then I got in front of the guys and I said, hey, listen, this is.

• 6:44Speaker 01

  This is what we need to do. What we need to do is get our gear back on, lock and load our weapons, and we need to go out and execute the mission, which is exactly what Mark would want us to do if he could talk to us right now. And that's what we did. Now, clearly, it takes a little more time than a couple of days to process the loss of one of your brothers and of one of your friends. And I would say that that, you know, happened months later when I finally got back to America and had time to grieve properly. But that's the most difficult thing I've been through, and that's kind of the process that I took to get through it.

• 7:21Jay Shetty?

  Thank you, man. Thank you for sharing that. And I'm glad I asked you that question, because I didn't know, I had no idea what to expect when I asked you that. And that answer was really, really useful. And I think for anyone who hears it, will be moved by it and touched by it for sure. When you're leading in such an extreme environment, when you have to lead your team through that, when you have to lead the other SEALs through something like that, now when you're teaching leadership, when people are not going through the same extreme things you've gone, how do you manage yourself from a compassion and empathy standpoint, or a feeling standpoint of understanding people's problems,

• 8:05Jay Shetty?

  but realizing that you've gone through things that people can't even imagine? Like, how do you still relate to almost reality feeling less extreme? If that's even true?

• 8:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I had an interesting experience years ago. I've got four children. And at one point, while I was still on the SEAL teams, I was at work, and there was something, something crazy was going on at work. There had been, there had been some guys killed overseas. There was, the word was coming back. And I remember getting home and, you know, one of my, one of my kids said to me, they had this problem at school, whatever that problem was. And I remember for a moment, I thought to myself, you know, how can you even complain about this problem that you're going through right now? This doesn't even matter. Some kid called you a name or whatever. I don't even remember what the problem was. And I realized, I learned a lesson from it. As I sat there and talked to my kid, I realized that... You know what people are going through is that is their world.

• 9:00Speaker 01

  And so depending on who you are and what your situation is, people go through different things. And whatever's happening in your world is the biggest emergency that's going on in the entire world. Cause it's happening to you. The other thing is we work with companies and I work with leaders all the time. And they're in charge of, you know, hundreds or thousands of people inside of an organization. And even though lives aren't at stake, livelihoods are at stake. And people earn their money from the decisions that this particular leader makes. And so there's a lot of pressure there as well. And I just try and always look at things and see other people's perspectives and not look down on other people's situations. Maybe because it wasn't as extreme as my situations were. I just try and pass on the lessons that I learned from those extreme situations.

• 9:44Speaker 01

  Because I know that they apply to things that might not on the surface seem as extreme.

• 9:50Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I love, I love how children are always the, uh, the softeners and, and the ones that make us, make us realize how everyone has their own pain and their own suffering. Tell me, Jokha, were you always, since you joined the SEALs, because you joined at a very young age, if I'm not mistaken. Were you, were you always a natural leader? Did you see yourself as that or was that something that you became through the experiences you had? Because we always, obviously there's always this argument of are you born a leader or do you become a leader? But I want to know about you, did you always feel like you had that natural instinct?

• 10:27Speaker 01

  I'd say I had a pretty decent proclivity for leadership. And you know, the argument of whether you're born a leader or whether you're made a leader. The, the answer is absolutely both. And in my later years, teaching the young SEALs, you could see some people are going to have some pretty good natural characteristics that are, that are very nice to have for leadership. Some of them will be lacking some of those. And the fact of the matter is most of the characteristics that, first of all, no one is born with every perfect characteristic for leadership, that doesn't happen. So you get some people that might be really articulate and that's a great thing to have if you're a leader. You might have somebody that is very good at simplifying problems. And that's a great quality to have as a leader.

• 11:11Speaker 01

  Might have somebody that's very charismatic, that's a great quality to have as a leader. So you might have some of these characteristics, a little bit more, a little bit less than others. You know, I got a funny example about this. I had a guy, because another, another characteristic that's nice to have as a leader, especially in a, in a combat leadership situation, is having a loud voice. And I know that might sound trivial, but if you're in a gunfight and you need to communicate with the other people, you have to have a voice that is loud enough to project and carry over gunfire. And some people are born with louder voices than others, just like some people are taller than others. And I had one particular guy that was, I was putting through advanced SEAL training.

• 11:56Speaker 01

  And he was a very smart guy. He was very tactically sound. He was a good athlete. And he was, he had the vocal cords of a mouse. And so when it came time to make a call, he just couldn't project his voice. And I started talking to him after these training missions. I'd say, hey, listen, it doesn't matter if you make a good call, if no one can hear you, it doesn't help. You need to, you need to get louder. And he'd say, okay. And then I sent him out on another training mission. And, and once again, I sent him on another training mission and, and it was, came time to him, for him to make a call, and he tried to raise his voice and it just, it just didn't carry. And this went on for a few of these training operations. And finally I said, hey, listen, I, I hate to say this,

• 12:42Speaker 01

  but if you can't project your voice, you're gonna, you're gonna have problems. I don't even know if you can do this job. And he, you know, had a very grave look on his face. He was worried. And then I sent him out on another training mission. And that moment in time came where he needed to step up and make a loud call to tell the guys what to do. And in that moment, he grabbed one of his other guys. He grabbed, you know, Bill, Bill the loudmouth. And he told Bill, hey, get everyone to move to that building over there. And Bill barked out that order and everybody heard it. And I realized that he did what he needed to do. He complimented the weakness of his own capabilities with someone on his team that had a very loud voice.

• 13:27Speaker 01

  And that's what we need to do as leaders. You're not going to be perfect in every category. So when you have an area that you're weak, maybe you're not very articulate. And I say, hey, Jay, you know, why don't you talk to the guys and explain to them what we're doing because you're more articulate than I am. That's perfectly fine. Or I say, hey, Jay, can you take a look at this problem? I'm a little bit, I'm seeing all kinds of options and I know you have a good way of simplifying things. Can you take a look at it and simplify it for me? And there's nothing wrong with that. So we all are born with some natural leadership capabilities and most of them we can improve. I mean, let's face it, if you're not very articulate, then you should write and you should read and you should, you should practice speaking and you'll become more articulate. If you're not very good at simplifying things, you can start to address problems in a more

• 14:12Speaker 01

  simplified way and really make that your goal and you can improve in that. If you've got some skills that are a little bit harder to improve upon, like how loud your voice is. And I was very lucky to have been born with a loud voice. It's genetic and well, it's lucky until you have four kids and then that genetic loudness can be a little bit hard on your ears. But what you need to do as a leader is, is first of all, work on your own skills, get as, get as good as you can at the various categories. And then when you have areas of weakness, it's okay. Be humble enough to build a team that complements your leadership weaknesses so you can become a solid leadership team.

• 14:47Jay Shetty?

  Great advice, really, really great advice. And that, that story or that moment in time is a brilliant example for what you just shared with us. So thank you for sharing that. And one of the things that hit me when you were giving that example is this decisiveness, the need to make decisions in really high pressure moments. Today, a lot of people have challenges with procrastination, overthinking, boredom, and we see these conversations going around and around, whether it's on Twitter or whether it's inside an organization or whether it's someone sitting on their couch and they're procrastinating and they're overthinking.

• 15:27Jay Shetty?

  Seeing as you've come from a place where I don't know if you had any time to overthink, or even a moment to procrastinate, how would you advise people in leadership, or anyone who's listening or watching this podcast, to work through procrastination and overthinking?

• 15:44Speaker 01

  Okay, so there's really two components that I would, that I would address here. The first one is straightforward. Look, if, if you're saying, okay, hey, when I, when my alarm clock goes off in the morning, I, I hit the snooze button three or four times, and then I finally get out of bed and I brush my teeth for 20 minutes, because I don't want to start my day, I don't want to go face that hard workout. And, and that kind of procrastination, that kind of, you know, overthinking, and, and having a debate in your own head and saying, well, you know, I did workout yesterday, I'm kind of sore from that, so maybe you're rationalizing. I, in those situations, I just turn my brain off and I do what I'm supposed to do. I rely on discipline, I'm gonna do what I'm supposed to do, I'm gonna make things happen immediately.

• 16:28Speaker 01

  I know that that hesitation, I know that hesitation is gonna bring me regret in two or three hours, when I realize I wasted my morning doing something that I shouldn't have been doing. So, from that component, turn off your brain, turn off your brain and go do what you're supposed to do. That's what you need to do to overcome that procrastination. Now, when it comes to decision-making, I was, I was actually had a reputation in the SEAL teams of, of being very decisive, of making decisions very quickly. But, quite frankly, I kind of cheated. I had a method to cheat when it came to making decisions. And the method was, instead of looking at a scenario

• 17:10Speaker 01

  and making a big giant decision about what to do, I would make a guess on to which direction I thought we should go, and then I would make a very small decision and make a very small step in the direction that I guessed was correct, and then I would analyze the feedback, and if it was positive feedback and it seemed like the right move, I would make another small step in that direction, and I would analyze the feedback again quickly, and I would make, if it was positive feedback, I would make another small step in that direction. So I would make very small decisions, but I would make them very rapidly. And I had to stay humble enough that, if I, if I make a decision or make a guess and say, okay, I think we should go in, go in this direction to the left over here, I'm gonna go to the left. So I start moving to the left, and I read the feedback, and the feedback goes, oh, this, this is not a good decision.

• 17:55Speaker 01

  You've got to be humble enough to say, hey, everyone, I actually made the wrong assessment. We're going to start moving to the right. You've got to be humble enough to do that, but if you make small decisions very quickly, you mitigate the risk of making a big giant decision, a big giant commitment. You know, people will ask, people will ask me, say, hey, I'm stuck in this nine to five job. I don't really like it. I'd rather do this other thing that I'm really passionate about. How do I know when it's time to quit my job and take up this other, this other passion that I have? To me, that's too big of a step because you know, the thing that you're passionate about, other people might not be passionate about. There might be no market for it. So you quit this good job that you have with a steady salary and you step out into the world and you realize that you've made a terrible mistake.

• 18:40Speaker 01

  That's not what I like to do. I would rather say, oh, okay, you've got a steady job. You've got a good income. How about you start doing a little something on that passion on the side? You know, you, you, you maybe produce a little bit of that thing that you want to make. You make a hundred of them and you see what it does. And if you get good feedback and people are buying that product that you made, great. Maybe you can make 200 next time and see how those sell. And, and you can continue to do that and you make these slow steps. And eventually you can look around and say, wait a second, I'm making, got a great income coming from my passion. I can go ahead and step away from my nine to five job that I didn't really care for. So that's an example of making small steps and it's something I call the iterative decision making process.

• 19:24Speaker 01

  And it's very beneficial to, to move through life, not trying to make big giant decisions, but by making small decisions rapidly, listen to the feedback and then repeat that process.

• 19:36Jay Shetty?

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• 20:40Jay Shetty?

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• 21:23Jay Shetty?

  That's indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. Think about it is that it's doable for everyone. It's practical. It's right now, today, tomorrow, anyone could start living that advice right now and it's not going to affect their current life. They don't have to change anything. They don't have to learn anything. They don't have to become anything different. Joko, what would you say is the biggest thing you learned about yourself during your time as a Navy SEAL? And during that 20-year period, was there ever a time where you wanted to give up or you wanted to let go or you just felt like it was it was too much?

• 22:07Jay Shetty?

  And what kept you going at that time?

• 22:09Speaker 01

  The biggest thing that you learned in the SEAL teams is that You are not as good as you think you are. There's always going to be someone that's better than you at something. You know, and I was not the fastest guy, I was not the strongest guy, I was not the smartest guy. And so you're always surrounded by someone on your team that can run circles around you in whatever category, whether it's shooting, or diving, or parachuting. So it's a very humbling experience, and it's the same thing with combat. You go into combat, maybe you think, hey, this is what I was born to do, and I'm gonna dominate in this situation. And you realize you get into combat,

• 22:49Speaker 01

  it's a very humbling experience. So for me, my career in the military was was an extremely humbling experience. As far as times where I wanted to give up, or I wanted to quit, you know, quite frankly, I never really had moments like that. I went through SEAL training. I wanted nothing more in my life than to be a SEAL. They would have had to kill me to get me to think about quitting, and I guess it wouldn't have mattered at that point. It's just what I wanted to do, and so it didn't matter what they did to me. And then in the SEAL teams, being in the SEAL teams, that's the job that I wanted. And so every day to me was, look, were there hard days? Is there parts of the daily grind?

• 23:31Speaker 01

  You're going out on, you got a 120-pound rucksack on your back, and you're marching for 10 or 15 kilometers? Like, it's hard. It's not fun, always. But I always knew that's the job I wanted to do, and so quitting wasn't really a part of my gig.

• 23:49Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, no, I love hearing that. That's so beautiful to hear, and it comes across very sincere. When you talk about the the first thing that you were responding to around the idea of you were humbled by being around people, how do you turn what today we see as this competitive and comparison-based culture to a collaborative culture? Because at the end of the day, you guys have to work together, you have to look out for each other. But at the same time, when you're training, like you said, you can get lost in the comparison of like, oh, he's stronger than me at that, or he's a better swimmer. You obviously took it very humbly, which is beautiful. But how did you see, did comparison ruin collaboration? And how did you make that switch for a lot of the people you were leading?

• 24:34Jay Shetty?

  Is that what a lot of the SEALs struggled with? Or were there everyone like you, and just blown away by the fact that they had more talented people around them?

• 24:42Speaker 01

  I would love to tell you that everyone had the open mind and are able to put their ego in check, but that's certainly not always the case. It's not always the case in the SEAL teams. I work with companies all the time and teams and it's not, it's not always the case in really in any organization.

• 24:56Jay Shetty?

  No, it isn't.

• 24:57Speaker 01

  And unfortunately, it is the downfall for people and it can be the downfall for teams. And I was very, very fortunate. I, I was in a SEAL platoon. It was my second SEAL platoon. So I was, you know, 20 something, very, very young, 22, maybe 22 years old. And the youngest guy and the most junior guy in my first two SEAL platoons and in my second SEAL platoon, we had our platoon commander, our platoon leader, he was,

• 25:29Speaker 01

  he was, he was, he couldn't put his ego in check. And he kind of came up with his own plans and then dictated his plans to us and imposed his plans upon us, didn't ask for any feedback, didn't even listen to the feedback when it was given to him. It was his way or the highway. And we ended up really just not wanting to follow this officer. And it actually ended up that we had a, that we had a mutiny with this officer. We had a mutiny and the, the troops, us young SEALs went to his boss and said, we don't want to work for this guy. He doesn't take our input. He doesn't listen to anybody else. He's arrogant and we don't want to work for him. And, and luckily our,

• 26:13Speaker 01

  our commanding officer, the guy that was overall in charge, actually got rid of that, that platoon commander. Now, when that happened, it was, that's basically a mutiny, right? It's basically a mutiny. And I'm not sure if you know this, but mutinies are not very well looked upon in the military. As a matter of fact, the, the punishment for a mutiny is death. They execute you. Now, look, this was the 90s. We weren't going to get executed, but. It is a serious thing to have happen and so they put a replacement officer in charge of our platoon. And when I heard about this replacement officer, this replacement officer was a guy who was kind of a legendary SEAL at the time.

• 26:57Speaker 01

  He had risen up through the ranks. He had been stationed at all the different types of SEAL teams. He had combat experience in a time when not too many people had combat experience. So he was this like legendary SEAL. And when I heard that he was coming to take charge of our platoon, I thought to myself, okay, they're taking this guy and they're they're putting him in here to straighten out these mutineers. And we're in, we better brace for impact with this guy. So we're sitting in the platoon space and I see this guy for the first time, this legendary SEAL. And well, I was a little bit taken aback because first of all, he was probably 155 pounds. He was probably five foot six at the most. So he's this small guy.

• 27:42Speaker 01

  And then on top of that, he was like the oldest person I'd ever seen in my life because he was probably about 36 or 37 years old. And of course, I'm only, I'm only 20, whatever. And we're looking at him like he's an old man and I'm thinking to myself, how is this old man, this little old man gonna? How, how is this the legendary guy?

• 28:02Speaker 01

  And he comes into our platoon space. And he says something along the lines of, "Hey gents, it's really nice to meet you all and I'm really looking forward to working with all of you." And so right there, I knew that there was something different. He didn't say, "Hey, I'm taking over. I'm now in charge. You're my men. I'm the commander." He didn't say any of that, which is what we were used to from the previous commander. He said, "I'm looking forward to working with you guys." And that humility that he had, that he showed, even though he was this legendary guy, he was so humble. We, and he acted that way all the time. And we would do anything for that guy and would follow him to hell and back. And he's the guy that I still try and emulate today.

• 28:47Speaker 01

  So as far as me recognizing that you better be humble if you want to be in a leadership position. I absolutely learned it from, not just from that platoon commander who was good, who was humble, but also getting to see the contrast between the arrogant platoon commander and the humble one. And then the way we felt about the arrogant one and the way we felt about the humble one left a mark on my brain. Like I said, I'm still trying to emulate that, that good platoon commander to this day.

• 29:16Jay Shetty?

  That's beautiful, man. And, and it's amazing to hear about it in the, in a space where I think there's a big misconception about masculinity and the SEALs or the military and the idea that everyone has to order each other around. And there's commanders like, like the one that you all had removed. Like you, you, that's kind of what you expect, or that's what you see in the movies, or that's how it's presented. And to hear your version of what you responded to and who you're trying to become, even in yourself. I mean, that's an incredible lesson for so many young people out there as well, hearing what it, what it actually takes. When, when you're talking about the mutiny and, and one of the biggest things I see

• 29:58Jay Shetty?

  as a cause for inefficiency in companies, and I work with lots of organizations as well, more from a mental health, stress and wellbeing space. Uh, when I'm working with people, one of the biggest things I find is that a lack of trust is the cause for the greatest inefficiencies in an organization. People make bad decisions, they introduce the wrong people, they connect in the wrong way because they don't trust each other. How did you, when the fact that your lives are on the line, what were your principles and methods of building trust, uh, in such a, you know, high stress environment?

• 30:36Speaker 01

  So there's a, a few things that I've been talking about lately together, and they're all very related. One of them is trust, one of them is trust, one of them is listening, one of them is influencing, and the other one is respect. And what's interesting about these three is that everyone thinks, well, you know, I, I, I wanna, I wanna gain trust. I want people to listen to me, but if I want Jay to listen to me, what I need to do is I need to listen to you. So if I want you to listen to me, I need to listen to you. If I want you to respect me,

• 31:12Speaker 01

  I need to give you respect. If I want, if I want to be able to influence you, then I need to allow you to influence me. And, and then the last one is trust. So if I want you, if I want Jay to trust me, I need to give trust to Jay. So if you're working for me, how do I, how do I let you know that I trust you? Well, I say, hey Jay, you know what? We've got this project that we've got to do. Why don't you take charge of that? Let me know how you want to, let me know how you want to execute that project. And then I actually let you execute it. You know, look, I'm going to give you some oversight. I'm going to check out what your plan is. But when you come up with a plan to me,

• 31:54Speaker 01

  if your plan is, if your plan is going to be functional, if it'll get the job done, I'm going to let you run with it. And when you realize that I trust you to do these things, you start to trust me as well. And by the way, when the plan doesn't go exactly as you thought it would go, and maybe there's some hiccups along the way, do I jump down your throat and say, I never should have let you do this? No, I say, okay, I got it. What can we learn? What, what, what can we do different next time? You know, what can I tell the other teams to make sure that, that they learn from this experience? So I, I give you trust and you start to trust me back. And that's exactly what I did when I was in a, when I was in a SEAL leadership position. I would let my subordinate leaders, I would task them with things and I would trust them to get it done right.

• 32:37Speaker 01

  Like I said, this doesn't mean I would send them on a mission that they didn't have any experience on at all and not check out what their plan was going to be. No, I would of course make sure they had some experience, make sure that they were headed in the right direction, make sure that their plan made sense. But if it was in the ballpark, I was going to give it to them and I was going to let them run with it. And that's That's how I built trust and like I said, it's all for those things. It's respect, it's trust, it's listening and it's influence. If you want to get those things from other people, you have to, you have to allow them to start with yourself.

• 33:12Jay Shetty?

  That's a brilliant way of thinking about it. I, I, I love hearing the idea of having to give what you want to receive first. And, and it's 1,000% the, the only way to do it. And, and it's, you're so right that you could spend your whole life waiting for someone to respect you and waiting for someone to trust you. And you're doing everything to get them to feel a certain way about you. And it just, you can waste your whole, whole life waiting around for that. What, what would you say is the biggest mistake you made in leadership? What do you think was your moment where you looked at that and you were just like, "Oh, man, like I look back at that as one of my ones where I lost and, and I failed and, and I didn't get it right."

• 33:56Jay Shetty?

  And how it did that impact the next time you address something like that? Did you have one of those moments where you just felt like that was the worst?

• 34:02Speaker 01

  Absolutely. So, and, and I wrote about this in, in the first book that I wrote about leadership, which is called, which is called Extreme Ownership. And we had a situation unfold where there was a, there was a friendly fire incident. There was a friendly fire incident that took place. A friendly Iraqi soldier was killed. So, one of, one of the Iraqi soldiers that we were fighting alongside, one of our, one of our compadres, one of our comrades in arms, one of our Iraqi soldiers was killed. I had one of my SEALs get wounded. A couple of other friendly Iraqi soldiers were also wounded. So, it was a terrible situation. And I was the guy in charge. I was the guy in charge.

• 34:43Speaker 01

  And even though there was a bunch of little tactical mistakes that were made along the way and there was plenty of blame that could have been placed on a whole bunch of different people, it really didn't matter because I was the guy overall responsible for everything that happens on the battlefield. So, absolutely, I came away from that. You know, I felt sick to my stomach. It was awful, but I had to take ownership of it. And look, it wasn't like that was the first time I had ever decided that the best thing to do when you make a mistake is own it. This is something I learned from the early days of in the SEAL teams. If you make a mistake and you try and make excuses, it's you're going to get crushed even more. So it's a culture where taking responsibility is taught and it's the right thing to do.

• 35:28Speaker 01

  But it's just the, the, the consequences in that particular situation were so awful that it was, it was painful to, to take ownership. It was painful to, to, to look myself in the mirror and say, this is all on you. So what, what did we do? Well, I took ownership of the situation. I told the, the, the task unit, I told my guys, this is the mistakes that I made. And here's what we're going to do to make sure that nothing like this ever happens again. And then we implemented those solutions. But certainly that was a, that was, that was a moment in my life that I remember of realizing. Um, I, you, you said something when you, in your introduction, it was like a confirmation of something that, that, that I had already known.

• 36:11Speaker 01

  But it was such a heavy confirmation that that was the right thing to do. When you make a mistake, you take ownership of it, you get that problem, you figure out what a solution is and you get that problem solved. And that's on us as a leader. And so often because of our egos, we feel like the right move is to blame someone else and, and point fingers and, and that just does not work. It makes you look horrible as a leader. It makes the problem not get solved. And it, it, you lose the respect of everyone around you and therefore the team can't do in its job anymore. You failed the mission.

• 36:44Jay Shetty?

  I mean, that, that sounds like another, you know, intense experience. And you know, you're, you're, you're practicing extreme ownership in these really intense experiences. I know you've shared this before, but for our audience, explain extreme ownership, but with this, with this lens of a lot of people today, if they try and take ownership, they end up destroying their own self-esteem or holding themselves back. Whereas the way you describe extreme ownership is that actually it, it propels you forward and pushes you forward. With that skew, explain to our audience, extreme ownership and how you're able to do that with it, rather than just beat yourself up.

• 37:27Speaker 01

  Yeah. So. Let's take a workplace environment. And I'm, I'm working for Jay and Jay's my boss and I'm up for promotion and I'm hoping I get promoted. And the promotion board comes out and it turns out I don't get promoted, Fred gets promoted instead. Now, what am I gonna do? How am I gonna handle this? I can say, well, you know, Jay doesn't like me or Fred, he, he cheated on the examination or he's, he's, he kisses up to Jay and that's why he get promoted. I could point fingers all day long. I could point fingers at you. I could point fingers at the whole organization. And if I point fingers at everybody else and I don't take any ownership of it, what am I gonna change? How am I gonna improve?

• 38:10Speaker 01

  What control do I have over my own destiny if my whole destiny is, is held by Jay, my boss? It's, it's a horrible position to be in. I feel powerless. Now, if I say, okay, I'm up for promotion. I don't get promoted. Okay, let me take ownership of that. I must be doing some things that Jay sees that I can improve upon. Hey Jay, can, can you do me a favor tomorrow? You know, can I come into your office during lunch for 15 minutes? I just wanna kinda go through what your expectations are. I, I know I didn't get the promotion, but believe me, I'm hungry and I, and I want, next time that opportunity comes up, I want you to be thinking of me, can we sit down for 15 minutes? And can you give me some critique points on what I could do better?

• 38:56Speaker 01

  And you say, of course, you say, of course, yeah, Jocko, come on in. And we sit down and you say, hey, look, you've, but your time, your, your, your timeline's been off on a couple of the big projects. And, and you've actually been late a few times. And meanwhile, I got Fred over here, he hits the timeline every, always, and he's never been late. And I say, got it, Jay, got it. And what do I do? I make those adjustments. I buy another alarm clock. I start paying more attention to my projects and the timeliness of my projects. I actually improve so that the next time there's an opportunity for promotion, you look at me and say, hey, way to go. You, you fix those problems, you're, you're getting promoted. So, that's the difference. We either, we either take ownership of what's going on, we figure out how we can fix it,

• 39:42Speaker 01

  and we do fix it. Or we point fingers, blame other people, we don't change and we stay stagnant, we don't make any progress.

• 39:50Jay Shetty?

  I'm putting that straight into our recruitment, retention and reward video. I'm gonna play that video anytime, anytime we have that complaint or insight, I'm gonna play that video to someone. I completely agree with you.

• 40:04Jay Shetty?

  I love that example and putting it into that space because it just, it almost when you hear it that way, you're like, oh my gosh, that sounds so obvious, that would be the right thing to do, but that's never our response, you know, 99% of us will, will do the opposite of like, oh yeah, they got through because of this and justifying it.

• 40:21Speaker 01

  You said 99% of us and, it's an instinct. An instinct is to protect our ego. An instinct is to protect our ego. So, like I said, I got four kids. If one of my kids is in the kitchen and I walk into the kitchen and the milk is spilled on the floor, what do my kids say? You know what they say? They say, "The milk spilled", right? An inanimate object did this. Not me, it was the milk. So we all have this instinct of our ego, trying to protect our ego, and it's a horrible thing. And you know, I wrote about this in the last leadership book I wrote, Leadership Strategy and Tactics. One of the sections is how do you take criticism from someone that you don't respect or you don't like?

• 41:03Speaker 01

  And it's very plain and simple. Jay, if I don't like you, I don't respect you, and you come to me and you say, "Jocko, you know, you're late on your projects", what should I do with that? Well, I should put my emotions in check, put my ego in check, listen to what you have to say, and then actually look at you and say, "Thank you for that feedback." That's how we improve as human beings. Now, is there a risk that someone is attacking you or trying to undermine you or insulting you? Absolutely. There is a risk that you could get into a situation like that. But guess what? You listen to what people have to say.

• 41:48Speaker 01

  You apply it without emotion, you apply it without ego. And then you can, you can look at it and you can analyze whether this is an actual thing, or whether perhaps maybe it's, maybe it's their ego. Maybe Jay is trying to cut me down because he feels like I'm climbing the ladder really fast, maybe I'll get promoted above him. So, so you're trying to come and undermine me. That's okay. Listen to what people have to say. Analyze it without ego, without emotion. Say thank you for the feedback and move forward.

• 42:17Jay Shetty?

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• 43:01Jay Shetty?

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• 43:44Jay Shetty?

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• 44:15Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by State Farm. We talk a lot about intentional decision making, and that extends to the practical stuff too, like making sure your coverage actually works for your life. State Farm is there to meet you where you are, and they know how sweet it is to feel good about your decisions. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with a personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. I love that you keep mentioning the presence of ego. One of the ways I think the ego also plays out, which I'm interested in the form of the military is,

• 44:59Jay Shetty?

  you've got people that are on the front lines, that are actually like physically there on the battlefield. And then you've got people sending orders and making decisions who may not be on the actual front lines. How did you all build that respect and trust of recognizing that everyone was playing their role? Because I find that the ego often is, well, I'm on the front lines. I'm the one who's actually going to lose my life. You're comfortable sitting there in your ivory tower. You've got nothing to worry about. How do you avoid that kind of ego also getting in the way? Or is that common at all? Does that exist?

• 45:36Speaker 01

  So luckily, inside the military, inside the US military and inside most modern militaries today, there is something called decentralized command, which means the senior leadership is giving the broad strategy of what we're trying to accomplish, but they're allowing the frontline people to make decisions on how we actually move in that direction. So that's what usually happens. Now, occasionally, there are situations where you're told to do something that doesn't make much sense. And maybe it doesn't make any sense. And maybe it's going to put lives at risk, and you don't agree with it. So what do you do in those situations? I've had those situations happen to me. Very seldom do they happen to me, but they have happened. Well, let me give you a little backstory first.

• 46:22Speaker 01

  I spend all this time building a good relationship with my boss. Building a good relationship, listening, when my boss wants me to do something, cool, I get it done. I get it done on time. I do it correctly. When my boss wants me to do something else, I do that. I do that correctly. I do it to the best of my ability. I give feedback so we can improve the process. That's what we're doing. So all those iterations of, of performing my duties correctly. They build the trust that we talked about earlier. So by the time you fast forward six months or a year and my boss says, hey, this is what I want you to do. And it doesn't make sense. I press pause and say, hey, boss, can I ask you a couple of questions about what's going on here?

• 47:06Speaker 01

  This is what you want me to do. This is what you're asking me to do. Can I, can I explain some of the secondary and tertiary effects that are gonna transpire? If we do what you're asking me to do, I want to make sure that you know those things. Because if that's the direction you're giving me, I want, I want you to understand how it's gonna impact us on the front lines. And 100% of the time, when I explain things up to the chain of command to my bosses. They said, oh, okay, well, we didn't, I didn't think of that, or I didn't know about that. Thank you for telling me. Cause by the way, if my boss doesn't know what the impact is gonna be for me. Whose fault is that? It's my fault because I haven't built a good enough relationship with him. I haven't explained to him what's going on. I haven't given them the clarification of those impacts in the first place.

• 47:50Speaker 01

  So developing a good relationship up and down the chain of command. Cause by the way, I want to make sure that I have a relationship with the people below me in the chain of command. So they can tell me the negative impacts of what we're being directed to do. And then I've got to build that relationship up the chain so I can pass those forward. So if we build good relationships and as you mentioned earlier, if we can build trust up and down the chain of command. We don't really have these issues and I, like I said, I got, I got a couple of times in my career where. I was, you know, told that we were gonna do something a certain way and I just kind of.

• 48:25Speaker 01

  Explained why I didn't think that was a good idea? And got to move forward in a more effective and more efficient manner.

• 48:32Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, no, and it's good to hear that it doesn't happen too often, but I'm glad that you expanded on what if it does happen, because like you said, in the work environment or in our day to day lives, it can happen quite often. And on the receiving end, like you said as well, that your juniors or the people that are reporting to you, if they don't feel open enough to tell you as well, then you made a mistake as a leader. One of the things that massively stands out that I hear you talk about a lot when I've been watching your videos recently, and I appreciate you bringing this so much to the fore, because I don't think it's talked about as much, is discipline. And, you know, I spent three years living as a monk and discipline was like our, you know, a big, big part of our lives.

• 49:16Jay Shetty?

  And I'm so grateful to have had that training, because without that training, it would have been so easy for me to lack discipline as well. When you talk about discipline, how many people listen to you and go, Jocko, yeah, you're a Navy SEAL, we get it, but like, discipline, I just find discipline is so unpopular today, because it's not the sexiest thing to talk about, it's not the easiest thing to get people to do. When people are struggling with self-discipline, where do you start? Where does someone start when they haven't had that training that you've had?

• 49:50Speaker 01

  I think like many other taskings and missions that we get in life, we have to understand why we're doing what we're doing. The book I wrote about this is called Discipline Equals Freedom. So you have to understand why you're implementing this discipline in your life. Why are you implementing discipline in your life? It's because you want to reach a level of freedom. And that's what discipline gives you. And the obvious examples that I talk about all the time, one of them is financial discipline, right? We all want to have financial freedom, of course, everybody wants to have financial freedom. But if you want to get to financial freedom, what do you have to have? You have to have financial discipline, you have to have the discipline to work hard,

• 50:33Speaker 01

  you have to have the discipline to save your money, you have to have the discipline to invest your money properly. You have to have the discipline not to buy stupid things that you don't even actually need. And if you can have that kind of financial discipline, you'll end up with financial freedom. Same thing with time.

• 50:53Speaker 01

  Everybody wants more free time. How do you actually get more free time? You get more free time by having more disciplined time management, by making a schedule, by sticking to the schedule, by not wasting time doing things that provide you no benefit whatsoever. And if you can, if you can have that more disciplined time management, you'll end up with more free time. And this applies to everything that we do. It applies to our health. It applies to the, to the, the way that we work inside of an organization. It applies to the skill sets that we have. It applies to everything that we do. So I think understanding why you need to implement discipline into your life, because there is such a massive reward for it. I think that's where I, well, that's why I start with that.

• 51:38Speaker 01

  That's why I start with discipline equals freedom. It's not discipline equals pain. It's not discipline equals suffering. And look, there is pain and suffering that comes with discipline. There is. But it's not, that's not what you're doing. That's not why you're doing it. You're doing it because discipline will give you freedom in the end.

• 51:55Jay Shetty?

  I'm so glad that you, you wrote that book and you have that mantra, discipline equals freedom, because it's such a, uh, it's such an interesting thing. Usually we think of discipline as a restriction. We, we think of regulation as like, you're like controlling yourself and you're like not expressing yourself. And people will say like, oh, you're just, you know, you're like in a prison and you're, you're suppressing yourself. And, and actually you're spot on. Actually thinking that you can do whatever you want and spend as much money as you want and eat what you want. That's actually not freedom. That's being a slave and that's being a prisoner to your, to your desires. And so I love that discipline equals freedom. Everyone who's listening or watching, write that down right now,

• 52:37Jay Shetty?

  because any area of your life where you don't feel freedom, from based on what Jocko's saying, is from a lack of discipline. And so any area of your life where you're like, I'm not experiencing freedom. It's from a lack of discipline. And I can honestly say that that's so in line with, we had something in our monk tradition called the regulative principles of freedom. It was the same concept of the idea that we had certain regulative principles that we had to practice and they were seen as suppression from a modern perspective, but actually they were so freeing because now your desires didn't control you.

• 53:17Jay Shetty?

  And so I love hearing that similarity and that connection and to hear you say is really empowering. And I hope everyone, but let's say Jocko, let's say someone just doesn't know how to build discipline, right? Like I feel like it's a muscle, it's a skill, it's a habit like anything else. How does someone start building discipline? Like what are the building blocks from a practical standpoint of discipline?

• 53:43Speaker 01

  I've got, I've got my recommendation that absolutely nobody wants to hear.

• 53:49Jay Shetty?

  I want to hear it.

• 53:50Speaker 01

  The recommendation is start getting up a little bit earlier in the morning and start going up earlier at night. So we start getting, and the reason I say get up in the morning earlier first, because people, you can't just decide you're going to fall asleep earlier, right? You'll lay in bed, you know, with your mind racing because you're not tired because you slept in. So wake up a little bit earlier in the morning and, and take 15 minutes, take a half an hour, do some physical exercise, do, do something that you would normally have to do during the workday or when you got home from work so you can spend more time with your family. Just start getting up 20 minutes, a half an hour earlier than you normally do. Over time, you can, if

• 54:34Speaker 01

  you keep kind of pushing that, you can end up waking up an hour earlier than you normally would. And that gives you time to get some workout, gives you some time to go for a run, gives you some time to spend a little bit of extra time with your, with your family in the morning before you have to go to work. There are so many benefits to it. And, and what do you lose on the other end? At nighttime, instead of looking at social media for an extra hour, you'll be asleep. And it's a beneficial thing. So I would say, set that alarm clock a little bit earlier. When you wake up in the morning, go and do some exercise, 15 minutes, 20 minutes, an hour, whatever you can fit in to start with. And I think that is a great place to start building discipline.

• 55:16Jay Shetty?

  I completely agree with you. I think waking up earlier is like. The best reinvention formula because what we're all lacking is time and what we're all lacking is time for ourselves and the only way you get that is by waking up earlier. What's something Jokha that you learned only after being a Navy SEAL that being a Navy SEAL couldn't teach you? Being a father, being a leadership consultant, you know, all the amazing things you've achieved afterwards. What have you learned in the afterlife almost that you didn't learn during being a SEAL?

• 55:49Speaker 01

  So when I got done with my career in the SEAL teams, I was asked to go and talk to a company executives about leadership and I had no idea. I had never been, I mean, I was institutionalized. I had been in the military since I was, you know, 18 years old. I didn't even understand anything about civilian companies, nothing. I didn't know anything about them. And this very first time that I presented these leadership principles that I talk about all the time and that I've written about, the very first time I presented them, when I got done, the CEO of the company came up to me and said, I want you to talk to every division of my company. And that was like the icing on the cake because I could tell by the looks on people's faces,

• 56:33Speaker 01

  by the questions that they were asking, that the leadership principles that that work inside of a SEAL platoon, they work inside of a finance company, they work inside of a manufacturing company, they work inside of an army platoon, they work inside of a Girl Scout troop. These leadership principles, they apply everywhere and I would never have known, I wouldn't have known that if I had stayed in the SEAL teams, I would have just continued to use them and utilize them in that one category, but they're applicable anywhere and that was a real blessing to figure out very quickly after I retired.

• 57:05Jay Shetty?

  It's incredible, isn't it? How we think what we know only applies to this area or this thing. And when you find this wide varied application of stuff that you know so well, and I'm sure now you, I love the Girl Scouts, I love that. Have you ever done anything with a group of Girl Scouts? Have you actually given them like a talk or a keynote?

• 57:27Speaker 01

  I have, I have three daughters and one son and I've run all kinds of random team events for children and yes, these principles 100% apply.

• 57:40Jay Shetty?

  I love that one. That that that would be something I would pay to watch. That would be amazing. Like, I'd I'd love to see how that goes down, especially with your with your daughters in the room. That would be brilliant.

• 57:50Speaker 01

  And you know, that's what that's what brought me to write the kids books that I've written is I was out there trying to find books to read to my kids when they were younger and books just didn't exist that sort of talked about these principles that we're talking about, about discipline, about hard work, about taking care of other people, about being prepared. There just wasn't books out there that had that message. And so as soon as my first adult book came out, this I was immediately writing my first kids book and and those books. Honestly, from a from a from a gratification perspective, I get letters every day from kids all over the country and all over the world that say, I did my first pull up today, or I got an A on my math test,

• 58:34Speaker 01

  or I I I made the hockey team, or whatever they set out to achieve, they realize that when they put discipline in place and they live like a warrior kid, those those principles, they work regardless of how old you are and where you are in life. So that's that that was very also, that was that was also also a great discover discovery for me, which I realized while I was still in in the military, that these principles, if you can learn them, if you can teach them to a an eight year old kid, that eight year old kid has a real leg up on on moving in the right direction. So I've been real blessed in the fact that the things that I've learned in the military translate very well if you can look at them through the right lens.

• 59:14Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely, man. And I'm so glad that you're doing it because it's it's it's always fascinating when you've heard about someone, you've read about someone, you've seen them, and then you actually get to experience them, even though we're not with each other physically. You know, it's it's amazing. I'm so happy that you're the one doing it and and in the way that you're doing it as well. It comes across effortlessly. It's powerful, but it's it's got a really special heart. We we end Jocko every on purpose interview with a final five. These questions have to be answered with one word or one sentence maximum. So there's a cap on the amount of words that are about to be used. So this is your final five.

• 59:53Jay Shetty?

  The first question is, if you could meet any leader in the world, dead or alive, who would it be and why?

• 1:00:01Speaker 01

  It would be Colonel David Hackworth, who was an American soldier in the Korean and Vietnam War. He wrote a book called About Face, which I ended up writing a foreword to. And I would never got to meet him. He died in 2005. But he was my mentor, even though I never met him, just through his books.

• 1:00:21Jay Shetty?

  I love that. I love that you said that. I always say to my audience, you can be mentored by people you've never met. And that's amazing that you wrote the foreword for one of your idols. I love, love hearing that. Uh, second question. What was your purpose when you joined the SEALs? And what is your purpose now?

• 1:00:38Speaker 01

  When I joined the SEALs, I wanted to be a good SEAL. That was it. And as you can imagine, that drove a lot of my decisions. And what I realized about the definition of a good SEAL, when you really break it down, what makes a good SEAL is a good SEAL looks after and takes care of his teammates. And what am I doing now? What's my purpose now? It's the same thing. I'm trying to help people as much as I can, pass on the lessons that I've learned, so that they don't have to learn them the hard way like I did.

• 1:01:11Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I love that. All right, question number three. Uh, what's thing that, what's one thing that you think people value that you don't value?

• 1:01:22Speaker 01

  I think there's a lot of things that people value that I don't value. I guess one thing is, I'll make it real easy, watches. I wear a, I wear a $3 Timex watch and

• 1:01:33Jay Shetty?

  I see you post it all the time.

• 1:01:35Speaker 01

  Sometimes people comment, why don't you buy a, you know, a nicer watch? This watch is functional. It does what I need it to do. And so if you're walking around with a, with a $1,000 watch on, you might think it's cool. I don't really care.

• 1:01:48Jay Shetty?

  We'll get a good shot of it. This is on Jocko's Instagram page. Go, go follow, uh, Jocko Willink on Instagram. Okay, question number four. What's the best piece of advice you ever received?

• 1:02:00Speaker 01

  When I got to SEAL Team One, the, the Master Chief that was in charge, so the senior enlisted guy, told us

• 1:02:13Speaker 01

  Show up on time, don't forget anything, keep your mouth shut and keep your ears open. And especially the part about keeping your mouth shut and keeping your ears open. Listening is the most underrated skill in leadership and as a human, you should listen a vast majority of the time. So I think that's great advice.

• 1:02:33Jay Shetty?

  That is. And fifth and final question, if you could create one law in the world that everyone had to follow, what would it be?

• 1:02:41Speaker 01

  Be good to your neighbor.

• 1:02:43Jay Shetty?

  That's a good law. Lots of people have been trying to teach that, lots of important people. I'm glad you're adding it on and sharing it forward. Everyone, Jocko Willink, make sure you go and follow Jocko on Instagram. Check out his many books, as he spoke about his children's books, his adult books. Please, please, please go and grab a copy of What Resonates With You. Jocko has an amazing podcast as well that you can go and listen to. All of the links will be in the description. Jocko, we need to do a part two. This was too good, man. I love spending this time with you. Next time, we've got to be in the same room to feel your energy. But honestly, this has been such a joy. I learned so much today and have an even deeper appreciation for you as a person and what you're doing in the world.

• 1:03:25Jay Shetty?

  So thank you for taking out the time to be on On Purpose and I hope we get to meet soon.

• 1:03:30Speaker 01

  Thanks, Jay. Yeah, I know we're not located too far apart. Next time, we'll do it face to face.

• 1:03:35Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely. Thank you, Jocko. Thanks, everyone, for listening. Make sure you share your insights on Instagram, tag me and Jocko with what stood out. What were the wisdom points? What were the insights that resonated with you? What are you going to practice? What discipline are you going to start from tomorrow? You're going to wake up 15 minutes earlier? Are you going to do that one push-up or pull-up? I'd love to know. I know Jocko would too. So make sure you tag us and we'll see you again next time on On Purpose. Thanks for listening.

• 1:04:11Speaker 03

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• 1:04:55Speaker 05

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• 1:05:05Speaker 03

  Tom Cruise is.

• 1:05:06Speaker 06

  Digger got us into this mess, and Digger's gonna dig us up.

• 1:05:10Speaker 03

  From the director of Birdman and The Revenant.

• 1:05:12Speaker 07

  What would happen if I stopped doing it? You stop, you freeze to death, that's what...

• 1:05:16Speaker 03

  With great power comes great deniability.

• 1:05:19Speaker 07

  I'm not the first daddy.

• 1:05:20Speaker 03

  Digger. See the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R. Under 17. Not a middle without parent.