My work makes me a better parent! Coping with mum guilt and taking the pressure off

We’re heading into the summer holidays. Hands up if you’re already a bit anxious about any mum guilt creeping in...? Fearne definitely is, so she’s reflecting on the Happy Place episodes that explore how different women are choosing to navigate working and parenting. No judgement here gang – we all need to take the pressure off being perfect in every area of our lives! In this episode – -Entrepreneur Emma Grede chats about why parenting isn’t that deep, and why it’s important for her kids to see her fulfil her own dreams -Artist Sophie Ellis-Bextor explains why she’s stopped minimising the importance of her career, and how she includes her children in her work day -Olympic Rower Helen Glover explores how having children encouraged her to get back into a career she thought she’d retired from -Artist Paloma Faith wonders just how much of a toll the silent emotional load of working both in and out of the house is taking on women -Broadcaster Ruth Langsford reflects on how she chose between being at home or at work in her early days of parenting, and what she tells young mothers in the same position -Actor Joanna Page remembers the times she had to breastfeed on TV sets and explains why motherhood now ultimately comes before her career By the way, tickets for the 2027 London Happy Place festival are on sale now! Just head to happyplaceofficial.co.uk to get your tickets. Listen to the full Happy Place episodes – Emma Grede https://pod.fo/e/407334 Sophie Ellis-Bextor https://pod.fo/e/2a124c Helen Glover https://pod.fo/e/283976 Paloma Faith https://pod.fo/e/245bab Ruth Langsford https://pod.fo/e/3b8e28 Joanna Page https://pod.fo/e/32ed95 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Fearne Cotton?

  Hello, I'm Fern Cotton and this is Happy Place. Now, today it's a biggie. Parenting, working and the guilt of not quite being present in Eva.

• 0:12Speaker 01

  I remember once this morning, I went into the loo and there was a young woman in there crying. And she went, "I just feel so bad because I left the baby."

• 0:19Speaker 02

  I really worry that I'm often preoccupied when I'm around my children.

• 0:24Speaker 01

  And I said to her, "I absolutely know exactly how you feel."

• 0:28Speaker 03

  I was feeding Eva on demand, so I just handed her to my mum. And I just said, "Just look after her while I go and do this meeting."

• 0:35Speaker 04

  So the kids could say to me, "Why are you doing that?" And it would be huge because I'd think, "Yes, you're right, I could be here." Having the twins and getting back to rowing, I was a much more present parent because I kind of compartmentalised my life.

• 0:47Speaker 03

  No, my entire identity is mother and I don't care about acting or anything anymore.

• 0:53Speaker 02

  I'll be like replying to a message, taking them to the park at the same time, trying to be like a present parent but never fully present in anything.

• 1:01Speaker 04

  Guys, it's already, nobody needs like sandwiches cut into heart shapes.

• 1:05Fearne Cotton?

  Well, here we go. We are heading into the summer holidays and if you've got kids, this time can be a real test. That belief that women can have it all. It drives me absolutely mad, quite frankly, because the answer to that question, I believe, is no. No, we cannot. If you are a parent, even if you don't work, it is such an unbelievable juggle. To keep your kids occupied for six weeks is bonkers. And there are so many things that you need to... We don't need to worry about, we just do worry about. Like getting them off screens requires some sort of activity, which can be expensive and time-consuming and exhausting, et cetera. It can also obviously be a lot of fun.

• 1:49Fearne Cotton?

  Like when you strike gold and have a great day out or a trip with your kids, oh my god, obviously there's nothing like it. But it is also bloody stressful. And then throw work into the mix or you might be caring for your parents at the same time as your kids. You just feel sort of pulled in many different directions constantly. And the summer holidays is the biggest chunk of time where we have to try and do everything and be everything. I can't speak for all of you lovely lot because you'd all have your own circumstances and feelings about this subject matter, but my experience of the summer holidays is it's a delightful shit show. Bits of it I love. If I get to

• 2:32Fearne Cotton?

  go away and have a proper holiday, I'm all in. I'll try and put my phone in the drawer where I can, just check emails and stuff in the evenings and I'll have a jolly good time. But the bit before that and after it is usually total chaos, a mixture of trying to keep up with all the happy place stuff and record podcasts and radio shows and all the other bits and bobs I'm doing. I'm working on a new TV project at the moment. On top of feeling like I'm doing a good enough job as a mum, which I think is probably my little Achilles heel, feeling like I'm not ever doing enough. I know many of you will feel the same and I worry that I'm not a present enough parent at times or good enough.

• 3:13Fearne Cotton?

  I think all of us feel the same, you know, we're trying to do a million things at once and mum guilt is gross. It feels so horrible and icky physically and mentally and it does no one any good. I definitely try and eradicate it by just halting those negative thoughts which don't benefit anyone. I guess an example is like recently, as I said, I'm starting this new TV project and I actually just had a frank conversation with my kids who are now old enough to understand that I need to go and work. And I just said, look, I'm not going to be around quite as much and I'm going to miss you so massively when I am away. And I love you loads and I hope we can like keep FaceTiming and texting through

• 3:54Fearne Cotton?

  those travel days where I'm not about. But it means that when I get back, we can have a really nice holiday together. And I'm just sort of more explicit about why I'm going to work. That could even be problematic. So some people, some mothers are very pro saying, "I'm going to work" because, I mean, some of us have to and, you know, that's that. But also, some of us want to. We love our work and we shouldn't shy away from saying, "I've chosen to go and do this project," which feels a lot more uncomfortable. Look, it's a big subject. There's loads to get our teeth into. I'm not sure any of us breeze through the summer holidays feeling entirely sane. So I'm really hoping that

• 4:33Fearne Cotton?

  this episode of Brilliant Women helps hugely. There's absolutely no right way to do parenting or work life. And actually, what works for you and your family is going to change over time, too. So today, I thought we could listen back to some of the brilliant women who've been unhappy placed to hear how they both feel about and manage the mad mix of emotions around wanting to be as present as possible in a million different areas of life. You're going to hear from Sophie Ellis-Bextor, Helen Glover, Paloma Faith, Ruth Langsford and Joanna Page. But we'll start with Emma Grede, who reckons parenting actually isn't that deep in the first place.

• 5:17Speaker 05

  I've got big news. I switched to Verizon and got the new iPhone 18 Pro. Shh. I can keep my old phone and I also get the latest iPhone every year. Shh. Anything else? Verizon let me choose Apple Watch Series 12 or iPad on them. Everybody, listen up. Shh. Switch to Verizon and get the new iPhone 18 Pro now. No trade in needed. And the latest iPhone every year with Simplicity Plan. Plus, choose Apple Watch Series 12 or iPad on us. Simplicity Plan with Simplicity Pro required. Plan and device payment purchase are separate agreements with separate terms. Service plan for Watch or iPad required. Additional terms apply for all offers.

• 5:47Fearne Cotton?

  Hello, this is Susie Ruffel.

• 5:49Speaker 06

  And Maisie Adam.

• 5:49Fearne Cotton?

  And together we host Big Kick Energy. Hey Mais, what is it?

• 5:52Speaker 06

  Only the best podcast ever.

• 5:54Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 5:55Speaker 06

  A comedy entertainment podcast with a focus on all things women's football, all things hilarious, all things friendship. It's a laugh is what it is, Ruffel.

• 6:05Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, and a fair bit of gossiping, too.

• 6:06Speaker 06

  Oh, and a lovely bit of gossip. Chow down on the gossip.

• 6:09Fearne Cotton?

  Nom, nom, nom, nom, nom. You can listen wherever you get your podcasts. You just need to search Big Kick Energy.

• 6:14Speaker 06

  Grab a knife and fork and tuck in, baby.

• 6:20Fearne Cotton?

  All right, let's do it. Here's the show.

• 6:44Speaker 07

  My favourite part of the book, I literally had to put it down for a moment and almost just take in my surroundings and go, let me just let that really sink in, guys. You actually say parenting, it's not that deep.

• 6:57Fearne Cotton?

  It's not.

• 6:58Speaker 07

  It's not. We've all gone mad, like literally.

• 7:00Fearne Cotton?

  We've gone fucking mad.

• 7:01Speaker 07

  We've gone so mental.

• 7:02Fearne Cotton?

  As if our parents.

• 7:03Speaker 07

  Can you imagine?

• 7:04Fearne Cotton?

  Gave a toss about the stuff we're worrying about.

• 7:06Speaker 07

  Listen, if there was an apple and a packet of crisps in the house, my mum was like, the four of them will be fine. Here's the thing, we have got to a point in culture because where are we, right? We are, we're sitting in this place where women are constantly asked, like, how do you balance it all? Meanwhile, my husband, who does exactly the same, never asked a sausage of that question.

• 7:27Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 7:27Speaker 07

  Ever, ever, ever. The other thing is the assumption that I have four kids and they're all at home starving because I'm not there. So it's like somewhere between the two things. I'm like, neither is true. Here's the truth, our kids are not a project. They are their own human beings and guess what? They can figure it out. They need love and they need guidance and they need to know that when stuff goes wrong, they can come to their mum and have a cuddle and I'm going to listen to them. They do not need me to usher them through every little moment of their life. If some shit goes down in school, I don't need to speak to that parent. I'm like, figure it out. Talk to the kid. Like, you're having a hard moment. Like, you know, I need the teachers to do their job and I need the lunch ladies to do their job and I need the doctors to do their job.

• 8:09Speaker 07

  And by the way, I need the dad to do his job too and the rest of the family. But it cannot be the sole preserve of a mother to get the kids from A to Z and to worry about what they're eating, what they're doing, what their intake is, what their, you know, after school stuff is. It's like, guys, it's not that deep. Nobody needs like sandwiches cut into heart shapes. Nobody.

• 8:30Fearne Cotton?

  Fuck that.

• 8:31Speaker 07

  Not one person.

• 8:32Fearne Cotton?

  Crying out loud.

• 8:33Speaker 07

  Just take a step back.

• 8:35Fearne Cotton?

  The inter-parenting stuff that we're meant to be dealing with, like.

• 8:39Speaker 07

  All the WhatsApps, all the chats?

• 8:41Fearne Cotton?

  On a Sunday, when I get a WhatsApp and I'm not. Even joking, it's this, it's a rule along. And I'm like, how am I meant to ingest all of this? And like, what it, what the hell are we doing?

• 8:51Speaker 07

  Add the emails from the school.

• 8:52Fearne Cotton?

  I can't.

• 8:53Speaker 07

  Which I don't read.

• 8:53Fearne Cotton?

  No, good. I love the one you put that in there. And also, the little microaggressions that only women get, and this one hit deeply, is when you turn up to school and maybe you've not done the school run for three days and someone goes, oh, I've not seen you for a long time. And I'm like, yeah, because I've been working, babes. Do you want to ask their dad that?

• 9:13Speaker 07

  That's where the anger comes back and I attack a security guy. What do you mean? What do you mean? It's so annoying.

• 9:20Fearne Cotton?

  I'm a no. It's so annoying. Or like you say, you've forgotten that it's bloody, I don't know, they've got to dress up as a giraffe day or whatever shit it is. It's like, it's absurd. Bring back 80s parenting.

• 9:33Speaker 07

  Listen, here's the thing. I know for a fact that when you are able to take a step back, because all families are different, right? All families decide to put their energy in different places. I am not somebody that is able to take my kids to and from school every day. I am not at the parent galas. I don't volunteer at the school. If my kid is running a race, like, I am there. If it's something that's important to Lola or Gray or Lake or Rafi, I'll be there. But the truth is that we've kind of been sucked into a lot of performative parenting. That means that it's actually not about your family values. It's what you think you're supposed to do. So again, I think it's like a vision for anything. Like, what kind of family do I want to have? I want a family who eats dinner together most nights. That's important to me.

• 10:16Speaker 07

  I like to sit there and be like, what happened in your day? Talk, you know, some shit about some other family. Like, I enjoy that thing. I like to be the person that wakes my kids up in the morning. That's it.

• 10:27Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 10:28Speaker 07

  That's my lot. Do you know what I mean? Like, I can't, like, you know, I have four kids. I can't brush everybody's hair. I can't get everybody ready. I don't get to do all of the things that I'd like to do. But when I've got those two things, the dinner, and I get them up in the morning, I am winning. Like, that's it. But it can't be a laundry list of 17 things. And guess what? My kids are seeing two things. A, they are able to self-advocate. They are able to figure out, mum, like, there's a school trip, you know, signing. Thing that needs signing. I'm like, great. It's really good that you know that and I didn't have to troll through twenty seven emails to get to it. So that piece is good. They also are watching somebody go out and live and fulfil their dreams. And that is important. The whole point of our lives is like self actualisation. So I think that I'm a good role model for my kids at the end day.

• 11:13Speaker 07

  And I don't actually think that ushering them through life is that good for them either.

• 11:19Fearne Cotton?

  I'm so glad that you just finished that sentence in a way I was not expecting because I thought you were about to say they're seeing somebody go out, dot, dot, dot, and work really hard because I'm in that like martyrdom headset of they just need to see that I'm working really hard. And it's like, no, they're seeing you go out and me go out and do something that I love.

• 11:36Speaker 07

  That you love doing. And Ben, can I, can I tell you a little story? I think that I had trained my kids back in the day into imagining that when I left home, I wasn't having a good time. So when I travel, I'd be like, I'll be back in like two sleeps and I love you so much and uh uh uh back out the door. I remember my daughter Lola saying to me, oh God, Mum, I'm so sorry you have to go back to New York. And I was like, Lo, can I be honest with you? I'm gonna like see a bunch of my friends, gonna sleep in a hotel room diagonally across the bed, room service. I'm gonna have such a great time. She's like, oh, you are? Have a great time then. I'll see you on Thursday. And I was like, oh, it was me. I trained her into thinking that's something that I didn't want to do because I felt like that was the message.

• 12:17Speaker 07

  Whereas if you go, bye darlings, I'll be back in a few days, I get to do da, da, da, da, da. I'm gonna go and speak to Fern Cotton, I'm gonna hang out with my friends in London, I'm gonna do my work and then I'll be back and la, la, la, la. Like, again, so much of this stuff is about how are you positioning this stuff in your family?

• 12:35Fearne Cotton?

  I know.

• 12:35Speaker 07

  Is it something for you to feel guilty about or are you actually just teaching your children the way to behave?

• 12:40Fearne Cotton?

  Yes, that has been such a wake up call for me reading that. I needed waking up because honestly, like even whilst I was reading your book, I got offered an opportunity that will take me out and about a little bit more than normal. And I, you know, I like, like you, I like having the dinners, I like getting my kids up. I go boxing with my son every Monday. Like there's some non-negotiables that are just happening. And this was an opportunity that I thought, I really am going to enjoy that and I'm going to love it. And I actually think it'd be really good for my career. There's just lots of benefits to all of it. But it means that on a certain few days, I'm going to be doing overnights and I started to spiral. I'm a terrible mum and blah, blah, blah. And then I read your book and I went, I'm fucking doing it.

• 13:19Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 13:20Fearne Cotton?

  I'm literally saying yes.

• 13:22Speaker 07

  Of course you should do it.

• 13:22Fearne Cotton?

  I know, but I don't think women are told, we're not told this.

• 13:25Speaker 07

  No.

• 13:25Fearne Cotton?

  We're not told it ever.

• 13:26Speaker 07

  Too seldomly, we're not told it. And again, too seldomly, we are apologising even to one another. So like, there's this kind of performative one up-ence when a group of women can get together. And it's like, who's suffering the most?

• 13:39Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 13:39Speaker 07

  And I'm like, do you know what?

• 13:40Fearne Cotton?

  The suffering Olympics.

• 13:41Speaker 07

  Like, let's not, like, let's not do it. Let's all be honest. And, you know, it's like, I love being with my kids, but after about three hours, I've probably had enough. Like, and on a Saturday, I'm like, hmm, yeah, I was with you lot from like, eight in the morning till 12. And now I'm gonna like, have an hour on my own.

• 13:59Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 14:00Speaker 07

  Like, what's wrong with that? Like, stop it. Like, we don't need to feel so guilty about everything.

• 14:04Fearne Cotton?

  It's so pointless. How are you with guilt? Because I think this is still, it's a very obvious subject, but I think it is still something that most, maybe parents, but certainly mums feel when they, especially weirdly, when they really like the thing they're doing, whether it's work, or something that is recreational, going out with mates, having a nice time. The guilt of choosing that over being with your kid is still this kind of maybe ancestral hangover that we feel so torn apart by it, that we then stop enjoying the job or the thing that we're doing because we feel so racked with guilt. How do you manage that?

• 14:41Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think, I think subconsciously, when I started my podcast, which you very kindly were my first guest for.

• 14:47Fearne Cotton?

  Which I love.

• 14:47Speaker 04

  So, so patient with me. I think I subconsciously did start, you know, when you do something and you don't know exactly what you're getting out of a project, part of the podcast conversation is about, was about helping me have permission, because I think I was finding the guilt just too much sometimes. And I realised that I had been speaking about my work in a way that minimised it in front of everybody in the house. I was quite dismissive. I didn't give it much status. I'd say, I've got to run off and do this thing, and I don't really want to be gone. And of course, I'll be missing you. And, oh, I just have to go and I'll be quick, back as quick as possible. And I just was giving, I was just making it very small. And nobody was.

• 15:25Speaker 04

  It was not helping with the conversation in the house because I'd made work a thing that was a bit small. So the kids could say to me, why are you doing that? Or and it would get, it would be huge because I think, yes, you're right. Why, why am I, I've got a choice to make. I could be here. And then after empowering it a bit more, I, I gave it a bit more, it got a bit more respect and then they stopped asking me as, as much.

• 15:48Fearne Cotton?

  How interesting.

• 15:48Speaker 04

  Yeah, because I'd say, yes, I've got to go away, but I, it's, it's important to me I do these things. And I'm really fortunate that I've been booked to do these things because there's so many people out there that do my job and they've asked me to do it. And I really want to do it. And I want to do it well. So I'm gonna go and do it. And I'll be back before you know it. I keep myself available. I think that's the thing as they get older, it's easier. So especially for the older kids that, you know, they've got phones if they're at secondary school. So um, my twelve year old, I don't think I've missed a school run, no matter where I am in the world. I'll FaceTime him when he goes in, even if it's like three AM from me wherever I am, just because I know he, he needs that from me. And that's okay. That makes me feel better if I know he's feeling good. But other parts, I just, I think I've just prioritized it better because I've stopped

• 16:33Speaker 04

  talking it down, actually.

• 16:34Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, but how interesting.

• 16:35Speaker 04

  Which I was doing for so long.

• 16:36Fearne Cotton?

  That your tone then informs how they're reacting to it. Because I think we assume it's this inherent thing that as soon as we're gone, everything falls to shit. Whereas actually, a lot of the time, they're fine.

• 16:47Speaker 04

  They're so fine.

• 16:48Fearne Cotton?

  They don't even know you're not there or, you know, and if they need you, like you say, you're, you're available, you're around. I mean, how do you compartmentalize? Say you're doing something like, I loved watching you when you did the BAFTAs. And I was just like, this is a moment where I was so happy for you. I think I even messaged you afterwards, just going, you fucking nailed it. But also, what a moment to have after this, you know, hugely long career that you've already successfully been part of, to, to be at the BAFTAs, performing this song that everybody's talking about, like this huge film.

• 17:14Speaker 04

  It was a real moment.

• 17:14Fearne Cotton?

  It was such a moment. But say you're about something.

• 17:16Speaker 04

  Also terrifying, by the way.

• 17:17Fearne Cotton?

  Course terrifying.

• 17:18Speaker 04

  So terrifying. Like the audience. Oh, my gosh.

• 17:20Fearne Cotton?

  The audience.

• 17:21Speaker 04

  Oh, hi, Margot Robbie.

• 17:22Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 17:22Speaker 04

  Hi. Hey, Robert Downey Jr. I, I told myself it was a lookalikes convention because I was just like, this is too much for my little brain.

• 17:29Fearne Cotton?

  Too much.

• 17:31Speaker 04

  Yeah, that was, I mean, those things, the moments, and I've, I think actually around that time, that was even then, it was only February of last year, but I was already feeling a bit like, ah, I'm away a lot, uh. And, um, and Richard actually encouraged me to involve the kids. So later on, that same month, I had, I'd been invited to see Mardi Gras in Sydney. And I could take someone with me and I took my then eight year old, Jessie. So he became my little date and we had four days in Sydney.

• 17:57Fearne Cotton?

  Wow.

• 17:57Speaker 04

  And I think he'll remember it always, actually. Yeah, just involving them really, so that I didn't feel too, too stretched. But yeah, I do, of course, I do sometimes feel incredibly guilty still. It's not gone, but I'm, I'm better.

• 18:10Fearne Cotton?

  And, and, and can you quite easily click into, say, you know, we, we all always have a level of drama going on, whether it's, you know, one kid refusing to go to an after school club or like they, they, they're everyday things, but it's constant, all our friends falling out with someone, whatever. And then the next thing you know, you have to really focus because you're on stage, you're in front of a crowd. Can you switch into work mode quickly?

• 18:31Speaker 04

  Yeah, I, I've had to. I, I don't have any indulgence about that. It's like literally the only way I've been able to do it. But I think in, in some ways, although sometimes it's, it's to the point of ridiculousness, I'll be, I remember actually, um, when I was recording the, the New Year's Eve show that we did for the BBC and I was in between, uh, the two slots around midnight. And I had to remember, I'd remembered I hadn't sorted a play date out that was happening around that, you know, those sorts of things. So sometimes it'll be really like.

• 19:02Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 19:03Speaker 04

  But I think what the, what it's given me, which is something I've, I think is helpful, is that I don't really need any, any specific situation to feel ready to do what I do. And I think it's allowed, it's meant that I've just had to be like, so long as I've got, you know, it's, it's basically I pack it in myself, what I need for work. I have, I can't, I don't need to have even time to, you know, warm up or anything. It's like, just get out there. I think that's actually helped me because it's meant I felt more self-sufficient.

• 19:34Fearne Cotton?

  In 2020, I had the twins and it was exactly at the time of Covid. So I had newborn twins and an 18 month old as we went into Covid. And the only bit of fitness equipment in the house was a rowing machine. So I kind of got back on the rowing machine just to keep fit. And I was fully expecting to watch the Tokyo Olympics with my babies on the sofa that summer. And then the Olympics got postponed. And I suddenly had a year ahead of me in lockdown in the house with the kids and a rowing machine and the potential to make it back. And at the time, when I first started going back, it's just like this annoying athlete trait you have, which you get back on a rowing machine and you think you're really good again.

• 20:16Fearne Cotton?

  I was like, you should have ignored my scores, but I just kept thinking, yeah, I've still got it. I've still got it. But then, day on day, I just kept going. And actually, the sound of the rowing machine lulled the twins to sleep. So every time it was time for their nap, I'd just put them by the fan of the rowing machine and it sent them to sleep. It was a bit like a heartbeat sound, you know, so. Genius. Yeah. So it was kind of this way of getting them to nap, allowing me to do some exercise. And after a couple of months, my scores were getting really quickly back up to what they used to be. And I just started thinking, and I was like, I wonder that the biggest barrier had definitely been the fact that you had to go into training. And I'd never wanted to leave my children when they were this young.

• 20:58Fearne Cotton?

  You know, I'd had a couple of years with my oldest at this point and I didn't want to leave the twins. But I just thought, under the shadow of lockdown, I could just start training. And I could just see if I'm good enough to get back on the team and no one needs to know. And so I trained for a few months and then around the Christmas time, I was doing really well. So it was about five months before the Games and I announced that I was going to try and make a comeback and be the first woman to make it to the Games as a rower. And I mean, it was, I honestly can't explain the.

• 21:31Fearne Cotton?

  The kind of outpouring of support from the parent community. And it's something that I'd never, I'd never really had that village before. So I had, you know, the twins in lockdown and Logan, who was a toddler. But I'd never really found that tribe. I've never really found that support. I'd never really felt what it, what it means when parents get behind parents. And when I had this announcement that I was going back, I, maybe it was because it was lockdown and there hadn't been many stories. It was a slow news day or something. But it was just so unexpected. The, my inbox was just full and full and full of messages of parents, both mums and dads.

• 22:11Fearne Cotton?

  Or just, you know, grandparents, people just saying, thank you. And this is, we're all behind you. This is what I want my little girl to see. This is, we're, we're supporting you. And honestly, from that, from that moment, it changed from being something was all about, you know, what can I do to show, you know, can I show my little girl? Something, can I, can I prove something to the system? It became far bigger than that and just about kind of, I guess, that wider community that had shown massive support to me. That is so amazing. It's so amazing and it's so beautiful. So I think

• 22:49Fearne Cotton?

  most, probably all women would feel that after they've had kids, there is this natural loss of identity, which will last for differing periods of time, depending on your circumstance and level of support and where your head's at at that point. I absolutely felt that. I felt like I didn't have a clue what I liked anymore. A lot of the time that was sort of, I would be confused as to like, do I really want to do this and like it? The guilt feels so huge that I actually can't even action it. So I'm going to park it. My kids are now nine and 11 and I honestly only feel this year that I'm properly, properly back in the flow of today, I have got the day off work and I'm going to paint.

• 23:34Fearne Cotton?

  And I want to do that for me without guilt, without worry. I've probably got a bit more headspace at this point. Ages, they're at school for the weekdays and sometimes after school club. So I can be a little bit more relaxed about my time keeping. And I feel like I'm coming back to myself in a way, like the old me is coming back, but with more maturity and wisdom. It's taken me a long time. There've obviously been sort of glimmers of it along the way, and I've been lucky enough to work on off throughout being a parent and finding support in different ways. But I think it's the internalized bit of like wondering who you are at this point and how you've changed.

• 24:17Fearne Cotton?

  And whether it's for the better or which bits of you have fallen by the wayside. At what, I mean, this was quick for you in terms of I'm setting myself this goal. But at what point did you start feeling like, oh yeah, the old me, the, the elite athlete is, is coming back into this body and this mindset? That's such a good question because I think the way you described that is something that I still think I do feel now. Yeah. Even though I've had this massive thing, um, just happened to me and you'd just been at the Olympic Games. I still think, you know, my twins are four and the older one's six. And so, but I still feel in that phase of kind of discovering who I am and what I want and where I'm at.

• 24:59Fearne Cotton?

  And so I think even, even though I've done this big thing, it doesn't, it doesn't mean it's given me this huge anchor. But I do think it's ma- made me a better parent in terms of giving me that identity. And I compare it to when I, when I wasn't rowing and I had my toddler. And then having the twins and getting back to rowing. I think that I was a much more present parent because I had this, I kind of compartmentalized my life. And when I was at training, I was there for the shortest time possible. I was in and out, I was getting it done, but I was getting it done with quality. I was present and I was going to make the most of that time. So that when I stepped away from it, I would totally detach.

• 25:43Fearne Cotton?

  And then when I got home, I think I just felt, I felt energized. And I think partly that's because of exercise and that, and I think I do, I, I probably am someone that needs exercise to get those endorphins and lift. And, but I think for my mental health, it was really important, that identity. And I could really throw myself into parenting.

• 26:05Speaker 06

  And I think that it's definitely not something that everybody needs. And I see some of my friends parenting day to day with just this amazing consistency and this amazing ability to be present. But for me, I found the stepping back in a real kind of powerful moment that I'd given myself, this kind of reminder of who I am outside of, outside of the house as well.

• 26:31Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I'm the same. I need something creative to remind me of who I am. I think it's that simple, just a reminder of, oh yeah, because obviously, like, I feel like I have to say the disclaimer of like, being a parent is a privilege and it's amazing and there's so many beautiful parts of it. But a lot of it is really mundane. And you are doing stuff on repeat and sometimes it's thankless a lot of the time. And sometimes it's totally and utterly exhausting mentally, emotionally, physically. So to have something that really boosts you outside of that, if that is what you want, as we keep saying, you know, if that floats your boat. I've just used the pun there, sorry guys, without even realising it.

• 27:16Fearne Cotton?

  But that is, is deeply important to give you that sort of balance. And I think perspective, that when you step back into it, you do feel re-energised and that, and that you, you can step into that space gratefully.

• 27:29Speaker 06

  Exactly, yeah. Being grateful. And I think every single time I would come back, I'd, I was grateful not only for the fact that I was able to go and do this thing I wanted to do, but grateful every time I walked back home being, you know, just, I guess reassessing how, how lucky I am and how great this actually is. But when I, I did notice that if I stayed in it too long, I think my perspective shifted and I definitely found it, I found it harder to be the parent that I wanted to be.

• 27:57Speaker 06

  Help I Sexed My Boss is the podcast where manners meets mayhem. I'm William Hanson. I'm Jordan North. Together we take on the hilarious challenges of modern life.

• 28:06Speaker 02

  William's the arbiter of etiquette.

• 28:08Speaker 06

  And Jordan's the chaotic yin to my perfectly polished yang.

• 28:12Speaker 02

  So if you want laugh out loud stories and brutally honest moments, then you'll love Help I Sexed My Boss.

• 28:18Speaker 06

  Watch and listen every Tuesday and Friday.

• 28:20Speaker 02

  On YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts.

• 28:23Speaker 06

  Just search Sexted.

• 28:24Speaker 02

  Be warned, it's a bit rude.

• 28:30Fearne Cotton?

  Right, let's get back to the show. Here's Paloma Faith, Ruth Langsford and Joanna Page.

• 28:36Speaker 02

  Also, you know that if you had full attention on one thing, how exceptional it would be. And you're just doing like, you know, giving everything your 40% because there's too many things. You've only got several 40%. And, you know, in your case, you're doing amazingly at all of those 40%. But it's just that feeling that you're not giving anything your full thing. And I feel like society really needs to update. Because we were sort of sold this dream of like the feminist dream. You can have it all. And the reality is you can't have it all. You can't. You can have a bit of everything, but you can't have it all.

• 29:19Speaker 02

  And I noticed in my life, like as the same as you, like the sort of CEO of my business, that I'm finding the hardest part being when I'm with my kids. Because sometimes I haven't had time to plan a brilliant activity or to make the best meal that I want them to eat. Or like get them into bed on time because I took a work call or whatever. And then they're going to be tired for school. You know, like all of that. And you're just, and then you're sort of like existing around in a heteronormative sense. Not, I'm not speaking about anything other than that at this point.

• 30:06Speaker 02

  You're sort of around like a heteronormative guy who thinks that his contribution as either, I mean, I didn't even have that, but like.

• 30:17Speaker 02

  That just contributing to finances is as much as what you're doing and it isn't because knowing what it's like to contribute to all the finances in my case. And also the silent emotional load of what you're doing to be a parent and the non silent emotional load of what you're doing to be a parent is overwhelming and too demanding. And I just think that culture's very society's very complacent and takes its mothers for granted. I think that's what I wanted to kind of put across in the book. Because when and the kind of like annoying part about this book, I think, is that I think quite a lot of women will probably read it.

• 31:02Speaker 02

  But who I'd like to read it would be male fathers. Because I think that there's this kind of idea that like a Mother's Day breakfast in bed is enough to say a bit of dry toast and clap, clap, clap, we love you. It's not enough. I literally just want to throw it in the bloody bin. I can make my own toast, but can you see that I'm doing a repetitive action every day? That you could just say, I'm gonna do that. And in some cases in marriages, it's been ten, twenty, thirty, forty years of people watching their mothers or their wives doing this same thing over and over again.

• 31:45Speaker 02

  And it's like, why aren't you just doing it? Like, I think it needs to change in two areas. I think that men need to be raised in a different way to actually feel more responsible. I think girls are raised to feel responsible for a lot of stuff. Emotions, people's feelings, housework, contributions. Like all of this stuff, responsibility, like I have two daughters.

• 32:15Speaker 02

  And I, and I hear myself talking to them, I think if I had sons, I would do this to them as well. Like, you are responsible for others' feelings, you're responsible to notice things. Um, so there's that. And then I also think that employers as well. Because there's this idea that sort of comes from patriarchal and capitalist ideologies. That money is paramount, money's the most important contribution you can make. And actually, it's not, it's, it's definitely on an even keel with like emotional labour. And in terms of like the running of a successful household.

• 32:57Speaker 02

  And I don't think it's enough for, in heteronormative situations, for men to think that just bringing money into the house is enough. And I didn't even have that either. But like, I think quite a lot of situations are like that. But as somebody who brings money in, I know that my workload on an emotional level is way harder.

• 33:19Fearne Cotton?

  The point is, you, like many women out there, are attempting to do it all, to fulfil all roles. So you're a career woman, you're driving this brand, this company that is Paloma Faith. But you're also nurturing and ensuring that you are instilling these, you know, things into your kids, but also keeping the house running and the, the level of worrying that you're doing. And I think for many women today, we feel like we've got to be it all for, to have a whole life. So you've got to.

• 33:55Speaker 02

  I get annoyed as well with people saying, oh, she's a bit snappy, or she's a bit irritable. And it's like this vilification of like, basically someone who's overloaded and overstretched. And rather than being like, oh, she's a bit s- snappy, maybe we should be asking why.

• 34:18Fearne Cotton?

  Mm hmm.

• 34:19Speaker 02

  She's overloaded and what can I do to alleviate it so she can be the best version of herself, which she really wants to be? Like, I know what I'm capable of and I really wanna be the best mother and the best human being. I can be and quite often I'm not, and I think that's because of exhaustion.

• 34:41Fearne Cotton?

  I really enjoyed reading the section about the period after you had your son Jack. And you go into the details of that deliberation of, okay, you've been offered to do the summer cover for this morning. But you've also got a kid and the guilt and the worry that men don't feel, they don't have that pressure on them. That societal pressure, the systemic pressure, but also just like what we've been indoctrinated with as women, that you should be this and feel like this. And I felt it and, you know, I'm, my kids are 10 and 13. So I'm not wiping bums, but I still feel like I need to be as present as I can be.

• 35:17Speaker 01

  They need you more, in my opinion, when they're older.

• 35:19Fearne Cotton?

  I think so, you know, the teen bit and I constantly go, oh God, I really want to do that job. I feel bad because I'm going to be away overnight this night and it's, I'm in the thick of that now. So I really appreciated you writing about that.

• 35:33Speaker 01

  Oh, thank you.

• 35:33Fearne Cotton?

  What, what helped you, you know, you, you say now you've got this very well rounded young man for a son and.

• 35:38Speaker 01

  Well, I would say that, wouldn't I, but he, I think he is.

• 35:40Fearne Cotton?

  But he is, and you know, and, and so you don't look back with regret. But at the time, what did help you get through those moments of, oh, I feel terrible, I'm not there.

• 35:49Speaker 01

  You know, you just do, you just have to. And that's why I've written about, about it in the book as well, because if any younger women read this, and I mean, you know, I work with young producers all the time. Young women who are having their first baby, they've come back to work. And I remember once it was morning, I went into the loo and there was a young woman in there crying. And, and she tried to stop crying and I said, oh my God, what's the matter? And she'd just come back after having a baby. And she went, I just feel so bad because I left the baby. And I said to her, I absolutely know exactly how you feel. I said, your baby won't remember any of this. Your baby, I'm sure, will be being looked after by whoever you have chosen to look after him or her, who you've chosen well.

• 36:31Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 36:32Speaker 01

  They're being fed and nappy changed, they won't remember any of it. And if this is important to you, to have that feeling of fulfillment to work, do it. Because actually they won't remember any of this and this guilt that we carry around. And you're right, no disrespect to men, and there are a lot of single fathers out there doing great jobs. But I do think that women seem to have this guilt. And whether that's, you said, societal pressure, that we've always been the, oh, the mummy and mums at home and bringing up the children. And suddenly mummy's not, she's, she's working. But what happens is she's still doing the majority of the childcare, the looking after the house, the shopping, the thing, the planning. And you ve- you rarely hear men, I'm not going to say never, but you rarely hear men say,

• 37:18Speaker 01

  oh, I feel so bad today, you know, I've, I've had two days away from the kids. You don't.

• 37:22Fearne Cotton?

  You don't.

• 37:22Speaker 01

  I got to the point with driving home that even a red traffic light. And we had a nanny, so I chose a nanny because I looked at all those childcare options. And a lot of them with the kind of strange hours that we do, it didn't, just didn't work. Nurseries, I said, well, I can't drop him off and because I've got to be at work at eight.

• 37:39Fearne Cotton?

  You're live on the telly, yeah.

• 37:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. So we had the na- not live in, but I had a nanny who came and, and I thought, well, that's, that's regular person for Jack. But if I, you know, I say, I'll be home at six. If we were running late, then I would be in such a panic.

• 37:54Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 37:55Speaker 01

  And I used to think, I used to worry, which I have written about, that Jack was going to think she was his mum. I'm, I was thinking, he's going to bond with her, her smell, everything, her voice, and he'll think that she's his mum. Doesn't remember her. She worked for us for two and a half years. He doesn't, sorry. Hope you're not listening to this. I don't mean that, but yeah, she was a fantastic nanny. He doesn't remember it. So this is what I'm saying to these young women is that don't beat yourself up. Don't do this to yourself because they won't remember. There are loads of things that from Jack's childhood, you know, very young, where I was guilt ridden. And as you mentioned, when they asked us to do the summer this morning, which hadn't been done before. My absolute first reaction was like, no, I can't do that. Summer holidays, Jack was six or something.

• 38:39Speaker 01

  And Eamonn at the time, quite rightly, said, look, as his dad and parent, I absolutely agree with you. We should say, no, it's summer holidays. We can't do that. He said, however, if I was your agent now, I'd go, are you mad? They're offering you this fantastic, you know, this morning, five days a week, all through the summer. We'd be mad not to take it. He said, and if we don't, we were doing Fridays then. He said, do you think they'll give it to someone else? And if those people are good, do you think they're going to give us Fridays back? They won't. And he was right.

• 39:09Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 39:10Speaker 01

  And actually, it was fine. Jack was fine with it.

• 39:12Fearne Cotton?

  Of course, and and the judgment would only ever be on you in that in that couple. From men and women going, oh, well, who's looking after our kid? They would never go, who's looking after his child? And that's the thing that I have to wrestle with. And I even made a decision last week where I said yes to something that I really want to do. And also, you know, it's important that I'm financially on track and I'm on my own and I've got to make sure that I'm doing it properly. But you know, actually, my kids are at an age where I could talk to them. And I said, look, I'm going to take this job. And I'm not going to be around quite as much in June and July. And they were like, yeah, yeah, don't worry, we get it. It's all good. And and we had that conversation, which took a bit of the stress away. But even after this today, I've got three podcasts today.

• 39:56Fearne Cotton?

  And I'm going to kill myself getting home as quick as I can to then race to my mate Ella's house, who's picked up the kids for me, who's going to give them dinner. To then come back and like, try and make up for me having not been there. And it's, we are all pushing ourselves to just.

• 40:11Speaker 01

  And I'm sure if I sat down with your children right now and asked them, you know, does it affect you badly if mum's working? Do you worry, do you think, where is she? They'd just say, no.

• 40:20Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 40:21Speaker 01

  They'd be fine, because they know you love them.

• 40:23Fearne Cotton?

  Absolutely.

• 40:23Speaker 01

  They have a loving family. They know you love them. I actually think it's really good for your children to see you work.

• 40:28Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 40:29Speaker 01

  And particularly young men to say, you know, women go to work now. We do not stay at home.

• 40:36Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 40:36Speaker 01

  And bake bread and clean up after you.

• 40:39Speaker 03

  It's so hard, isn't it?

• 40:41Fearne Cotton?

  Why is parenting so hard?

• 40:42Speaker 03

  It's so, oh, my God, you're just so stressful, isn't it? Because everything, and you love them so much, but everything is just like, it's such a heightened thing, isn't it?

• 40:50Fearne Cotton?

  So heightened.

• 40:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's just, oh, my God, it's, and then trying to do that with work. Like, when I first had Eva, I worked just after having, this is like now 12 years ago. And but I was still in the mindset of, I'm an actress, you don't say no to a job. A job comes in, you say yes to everything. And my birth with her was, you know, quite traumatic. I was sent a preview, I'd been hemorrhaging. I mean, it was just like, oh, my God, it was just mad. And I was two weeks after giving birth to her and I had really low iron, I was absolutely exhausted, I was bleeding. I had cracked bleeding nipples. It was just like, I'm trying to feed. It was so difficult. Then my agent phoned and said, you've got to go into London now to this audition. It's going to be like the next Mad Men. It's, you know, this thing for ITV, all about the NHS starting and stuff. And in my head, I just thought, oh, my God, no,

• 41:35Speaker 03

  it's the last thing I want to do. I don't want to, physically, I just can't get myself there anyway. And also, my head's just not there anymore. I just, I don't want to do it. I just don't want to do it. But I'm still like, as an actress going, yes, okay, yes, I'll be there. And so, you know, so I went down there and I got down there, you know, to start doing it and sat my mum in this hotel, just where I went to Spotlight, which was where the audition was and everything. And I was feeding Eva on demand, breastfeeding, and I hadn't, didn't have a dummy, I hadn't expressed any milk, I didn't have a bottle, and she was just sleeping. So I just handed her to my mum. And I just said, just look after her while I go and do this meeting. And mum was just sitting there, just frozen, going, oh, my God, if this baby wakes up, I don't know what the hell I'm gonna do.

• 42:14Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 42:14Speaker 03

  I've got no milk for her. I've got no nothing. And then I went in and just did this audition. And it's just weird, because all I did was just go in there and talk about my placenta, and talk about my birth, and just like, and because I didn't give a shit.

• 42:25Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 42:25Speaker 03

  I was just like, yeah, I had a double placenta.

• 42:27Fearne Cotton?

  Don't care.

• 42:27Speaker 03

  It's this big, and the sack was ripping and whatever, I got the job straight away. And then, by the time we got home, I walked into the house, and then they phoned, and my agent went, yeah, you've got the job. And then also, they just offered you the part of Queen Elizabeth in the 50th anniversary of Doctor Who. So I was like, oh, yes, okay, right, I've just, I've got to do that then as well. And so then I'm off, straight away filming, with this little baby with me. And it's mad, because, you know, as a woman, you're, you're there, and you're trying to deal with like, the biggest thing that's ever happened in your life.

• 42:54Fearne Cotton?

  Madness.

• 42:55Speaker 03

  And physically and mentally and all of that. And then you're still like, bomb, straight into this like, working environment, which you've been in for like, years and years, which doesn't cater to having a baby with you.

• 43:04Fearne Cotton?

  God, no.

• 43:04Speaker 03

  And you're trying to struggle, and, you know, with all of that. And, oh, my God, it's just so difficult.

• 43:08Fearne Cotton?

  It's so, so bonkers. Again, like you say, when you're programmed to always say yes, and, and go,

• 43:14Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 43:15Fearne Cotton?

  I won't turn down this opportunity, that you push yourself that much. I mean, I, I did exactly the same. And it is. Absolutely wild. I mean, you did make a decision a bit further down the line to say, actually, do you know what? Enough's enough. I don't want to work for a bit. That must have been a big scary gear change.

• 43:30Speaker 03

  Well, it wasn't. It was just a complete and utter relief. I'd done Doctor Who, right? And I was breastfeeding and I was in this corset and they were gorgeous, right? They were really lovely. And they couldn't have been nicer, but I was adamant that the baby was going to be with me on set and this is what I'm doing. But, you know, oh my god, I would be in a hotel in Cardiff. I'd be cluster feeding all the way through the night. She'd finally finish at about four in the morning and then at five in the morning, I'd have to get up, go on set, have my red wig put on, be shoved into this huge, big corset with these boobs which has got bigger and bigger and bigger as the day went on. I couldn't remember any of my lines because my head was all over the place. Lunchtime would come and I'd go into my trailer. I'd feed for half an hour, express for like 25 minutes, have one mouthful of food and then go back on set.

• 44:13Speaker 03

  And then after you feed, you just want to catch them. I just, I was just like, but I just want to be with her. And everybody would say, well, she's not even going to remember, you know, it doesn't matter. And but you're like, but I will remember and this is my experience as well. And then you're on set and you can't remember your lines. You're playing Queen Elizabeth with a Welsh accent. I know. I was, and I was just like, you know, and they were all gorgeous, but I've got like Billy Piper, there's Jenna Coleman, David Tennant, John Hurt, and you're there and you're doing Queen Elizabeth with a Welsh accent and you can't remember your lines. It's really embarrassing.

• 44:45Speaker 03

  And so I got through that, but we tried to make it work and it was just awful. And then I got to doing Breathless then, this thing for ITV. And oh my god, I was starting to shift in my head. I was starting to just be a bit more like, you know, I just want to think about me. I just, I don't know, I was starting to harden and just go, it doesn't mean as much. It doesn't mean this whole acting world, which has been my everything. It's been everything. And it just doesn't mean anything to me anymore. And we got to doing Breathless and I was just, you know, we'd be in the middle of filming a scene. And I'd be like, oh my god, I can hear my baby because mum would sort of be coming to set and even would be crying. And I'd just stop a scene in the middle of filming and go, I'm sorry, I've got to stop. My baby's coming. I've got to feed her. And then I'd take myself off for about half an hour and leave everybody waiting for me. They were really sweet about it, but when you're filming, everyone's a bit like.

• 45:30Speaker 03

  Like, you know, when, when you're gonna be finished and stuff. And I'd be like, I don't know, I don't know when I'm gonna be finished. But by the time I got to the end of that, I was like, I'm done, I'm absolutely done. I don't care what anybody says. I don't care if I'm getting asked to do auditions. I don't care if it's, you know, bad or whatever. I don't care if I'm gonna completely ruin my career because I'm just stepping away from it. When it's doing really well at the moment, I'm quite prepared to do that and what will be will be. And then I topped myself off for about seven years.

• 45:56Fearne Cotton?

  I think that's amazing because there's so, you know. Even when I sort of decided to not really do TV anymore and I was like, it's just not working for me. There was a huge part of me, largely ego based, that was like. That forms a lot of my identity. That is how I identify as I am a TV presenter. What the hell am I meant to? Think about myself without that there. And I don't think I valued myself in other ways as much, you know. Being a friend, being a mother, you know, just being a human being. All of my self-worth was wrapped up in. Achievement and what I was seen to be doing. Did you have any of that going on?

• 46:33Speaker 03

  No, I didn't. I never thought, and I, and I did have to put up with then, when I came back to work. People saying to me, oh God, you know, do you feel bad that you never became as successful as Martin Freeman and. And Martin's absolutely gorgeous, you know, but as a woman and taking time off and you know that then you're going back into the profession. It's just not gonna be as easy as it was before. It's really hard. You're not getting the meetings as much or you're not getting the jobs as much and you've got to basically go, right, okay, I'm gonna start from scratch again. But I never felt, you know, worried like that was my whole identity because I think I just got so wrapped up in Eva. And being a mother and still now, like being a mother is sort of my whole identity. And I know when they grow up and. They go to whatever they want to go off and do. I know I'll be cool because I'll be so bloody exhausted by then.

• 47:18Speaker 03

  And I'll be pushing sixty when I think Bo gets to about like, you know, thirteen and teenage years. So I think I'll be more than ready to go, okay, now I am just gonna be me. But I think I just sort of just went boof and just, you know, converted myself over to, no, my entire identity is mother. And I don't care, I don't, I don't care about acting or anything anymore.

• 47:38Fearne Cotton?

  I love that. Brilliant women, talking absolute sense and being really open and honest. I really hope that that either gave you some ideas for your own life, maybe emboldened you in the choices you feel you want to be making, or just made you feel a little less alone. Because honestly, this can be really crap and it can look like everyone else is handling big decisions way better than you are, but we're all just making this up as we go along. We are winging it. Let's chat on Instagram. If you have mum guilt or you're struggling with the juggle, whatever it might be, we are at happyplaceofficial. All right, back here next week with one of the many gorgeous live podcasts that we've recorded at the Happy Place Festival this weekend just gone. Can't wait for that.

• 48:23Fearne Cotton?

  In the meantime, a massive thanks again to everyone we heard from today and to you, whatever plate you're spinning right now, you're doing a bloody great job.

• 48:58Speaker 05

  I've got big news. I switched to Verizon and got the new iPhone 18 Pro. Shh. I can keep my old phone and I also get the latest iPhone every year. Shh, anything else. Verizon let me choose Apple Watch Series 12 or iPad on them. Everybody listen up. Shh. Switch to Verizon and get the new iPhone 18 Pro now. No trade in needed and the latest iPhone every year with Simplicity Plan. Plus, choose Apple Watch Series 12 or iPad on us. Simplicity Plan with Simplicity Pro required. Plan and device payment purchase are separate agreements with separate terms. Service plan for Watch or iPad required. Additional terms apply for all offers.

• 49:28Speaker 06

  Help I Sex at My Boss is the podcast where manners meets mayhem. I'm William Hanson. I'm Jordan North. And together we take on the hilarious challenges of modern life. William's the arbiter of etiquette. And Jordan's the chaotic yin to my perfectly polished yang. So if you want laugh out loud stories and brutally honest moments, then you'll love Help I Sex at My Boss. Watch and listen every Tuesday and Friday. On YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. Just search Sexed it. Be warned, it's a bit rude.