Taylor Momsen: The Grinch, Gossip Girl, & Grief

Join Alex in the studio for an interview with Taylor Momsen! Taylor reflects on her past as a child star, quitting Gossip Girl, being exploited by the paparazzi, and breaking into the music industry with The Pretty Reckless. She also opens up about losing two people very close to her and how she has worked to overcome her grief. Enjoy!

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Alex Cooper?

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• 1:25Alex Cooper?

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• 2:13Alex Cooper?

  What is up, daddy gang? It is your founding Father Alex Cooper with Call Her Daddy.

• 2:22Alex Cooper?

  Taylor Momsen, welcome to Call Her Daddy.

• 2:23Speaker 01

  Hello, thank you for having me.

• 2:25Alex Cooper?

  I am so excited to finally sit down with you. I feel like you've been someone that I've wanted to have on and it's been a long time coming, so it feels right that you're here.

• 2:32Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 2:33Alex Cooper?

  How are you doing?

• 2:34Speaker 01

  I'm doing excellent.

• 2:35Alex Cooper?

  Are you in LA just for promo and everything?

• 2:38Speaker 01

  Promo and Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and it's a busy, it's a busy week.

• 2:43Alex Cooper?

  Okay, wait, I read somewhere that you are a night owl and you kind of go to bed late. Were you up late last night?

• 2:50Speaker 01

  I tried to go to bed, well, I flew in, I actually flew in from Seattle yesterday.

• 2:55Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 2:55Speaker 01

  Um, I feel like I haven't slept in at least three weeks.

• 2:59Alex Cooper?

  Perfect.

• 2:59Speaker 01

  So I'm kind of running on fumes. I'm hitting that point. Um, so I tried to go to bed earlier, which was like midnight, which was very early for me.

• 3:07Alex Cooper?

  Okay, is this just like all musicians though? Because every single musician I've interviewed, one wants a late start and two, it's like they don't, they literally like start their nights at like 1 a.m.

• 3:18Speaker 01

  I think my brain doesn't wake up until like seven.

• 3:22Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 3:22Speaker 01

  So I-

• 3:23Alex Cooper?

  It's 7 p.m.

• 3:23Speaker 01

  7 p.m.

• 3:24Alex Cooper?

  Perfect.

• 3:24Speaker 01

  So like anything before seven o'clock, I can show up, I can do it, but it's, my brain just isn't at its highest functioning quality until like seven.

• 3:33Alex Cooper?

  But do you think that's because you're playing shows and writing music and you're most creative at night?

• 3:37Speaker 01

  I think definitely a part of it is the routine of used to being up late because of touring and things.

• 3:43Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 3:43Speaker 01

  Um, so you get on that schedule and then it's just hard to switch a schedule. But I've always found, even when I was younger and I didn't have that, if I try to go to bed early, I can't, even if I fall asleep, I'm more tired the next day than if I just stay up and then sleep less. It's, it's a weird thing, but I definitely find creative, like my creative brain starts to work at night.

• 4:02Alex Cooper?

  Okay, well, I'm happy that you're waking, you're here.

• 4:04Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 4:04Alex Cooper?

  Fabulous.

• 4:05Speaker 01

  Made it.

• 4:05Alex Cooper?

  Um, okay, you are the lead singer of The Pretty Reckless.

• 4:09Speaker 01

  I am.

• 4:10Alex Cooper?

  Band. Can we talk though about that you have a Christmas EP that just came out? And I feel like, just from the vibes, I'm like, this is a departure from what your band is usually doing. Did you have to convince everyone to do this? And like, was it primarily your idea?

• 4:28Speaker 01

  It was my idea. Well, let me rephrase that. It was actually, it was the fans' idea. So this is something that it's Taylor Momsen's Pretty Reckless Christmas, and I'm doing the song from The Grinch, "Where Are You Christmas." And that was something that when I first formed The Pretty Reckless when I was 14, every year, people would put the connection together that I was Cindy Lou Who and The Grinch. And every year, it got more and more exponential and more and more people, you know, put that together. And it was always kind of a funny thing that, you know, you smile at and you go, huh, that's cute. And every year, they'd go do a rock version of "Where Are You Christmas." And for, I don't know, 15 years, I went, no way. Like, in zero worlds is this something I would ever do.

• 5:11Speaker 01

  Fast forward to it's COVID, we've gone through a lot of loss. Like, it's a very hard time in the Pretty Reckless world and in my life. And there's nothing to do because we're in lockdown. And so the only thing to do is to rehearse with the band because we're all cool to be together. And so we just spent a lot of time in the rehearsal studio. The holidays were coming up. We're starting to see these comments again of do a rock version of "Where Are You Christmas." And we kind of all turned, I kind of turned to everyone and went, should we just try this? Like, should we just see what happens here? And so we put together an arrangement, which was actually kind of tricky because it's not really a full song. It's a minute long. And so to make it a three and a half minute song,

• 5:53Speaker 01

  whatever, we worked that out. We go into the rehearsal space and we jam through it once. And I kid you not, Alex, by the end of the song, these four depressed, miserable people had giant grins on our faces. And we all kind of looked at each other and went, was that just great? Like, I think that there was something magic that just happened here. Are we doing this now? We're doing this. So that's where it started. And then I decided in order to, being me and being very thorough with everything, in order to have it, I needed it to have context and I needed it to equate to me now. And, you know, all the things that there's, there's actually some substance to what I'm doing. So I wrote an entire original Christmas record around it.

• 6:35Alex Cooper?

  Of course you did.

• 6:36Speaker 01

  Of course I did.

• 6:37Alex Cooper?

  But the fact that it came also from like the fans relentlessly being like, come on, like, bring our girl Cindy Lou Who back, like, come on. And I, which I want to get into today because I know there's a lot to discuss in terms of like your early career. And I feel like I've had a lot of conversations with Actresses who then go into different roles in their career of just like making a pivot as a woman is so difficult. And so sometimes you have to abandon who you were known for and really, really almost like kind of turn your back on that to be taken seriously in another department. And so the fact that you are now sitting here and like even like being able to like smile and say Cindy Lou Who with a smile in an interview like I'm sure if I interviewed

• 7:20Alex Cooper?

  you maybe 10 years ago, you would be like, I don't even want to talk about that.

• 7:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's definitely an element of that.

• 7:25Alex Cooper?

  So there's growth.

• 7:25Speaker 01

  Oh, there's tons of growth. And I think also, you know, I'd be remiss to not mention the loss that we went through and the it was a hard time for me. And I think coming out of that grief and getting to the other side of it, it forced me to kind of reflect on my life in a lot of ways. And Grinch, like I went back to the very beginning and Grinch to me was always great. Like, I don't have any bad memories with Grinch. Everything about it was awesome. Like, it was super fun. I was super young. But there were so many, it was such an incredible project to be a part of that was so upper echelon at such a young age to see, you know, actors of that caliber and of Jim Carrey and Molly Shannon, et cetera, et cetera, Ron Howard.

• 8:08Speaker 01

  And then it was also my first experience in a recording studio. And so, you know, when I was, when the movie came out and stuff and I was in school, like you're teased relentlessly for it, you're Grinch girl, I moved around a lot, like, all of that kind of stuff was hard for me as a kid. But when I got older and looking back on it, I go, no, all of those things that happened, all of those experiences of making this film was wonderful. And so, why am I shunning this? And like, I am Cindy Lou Who. Like, I am that girl. Like, I'm still that girl.

• 8:38Alex Cooper?

  I think we're a similar age. Are you 31, 32?

• 8:41Speaker 01

  32.

• 8:41Alex Cooper?

  Okay, I'm 31 and

• 8:45Alex Cooper?

  I want to go back to the beginning because I know you started your career so young, but even when we're going to talk about The Grinch, I was thinking about that where I read that you had been bullied for this role.

• 8:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:54Alex Cooper?

  And I'm sitting there and I'm like, what? Like, what are you, what? What, like, that is the most iconic, incredible, this movie has lived forever. I watch it every single year, like, you were adorable and perfect and all the things. But then it's like, oh, no, but you're also just like a normal kid then going to school and kids are fucking assholes.

• 9:13Speaker 01

  Kids are fucking assholes.

• 9:14Alex Cooper?

  Whether it was jealousy or they actually just thought you were a quote unquote freak. They're like, you're the Grinch girl.

• 9:19Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 9:20Alex Cooper?

  And you're like, so at that age, it doesn't matter that this is like this incredible movie. It matters what your peers are saying. And if they're saying you're not cool for that, then you digest that to be like, I'm not cool for this.

• 9:30Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. And I didn't grow up in a Hollywood household or anything. Like, I was born in St. Louis.

• 9:36Alex Cooper?

  Okay, wait. Take me back. You get into the industry from what I understand around like two years old.

• 9:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:42Alex Cooper?

  How do your parents even explain to you, like, why they got you in so young?

• 9:46Speaker 01

  I was just talking about this the other day and I think I need to have another conversation with my parents because I don't even fully know the story. I know they put me into modeling. I was signed by Ford Modeling Agency when I was two. And I was very chatty and I don't know, a bunular. And they went, my modeling agency said, does she have an acting agent? And my parents went, no. And they went, okay, well, she should, so go over to this agency. They sent me on my first audition and I booked it that day. It was for Shake and Bake and I was three. So that, it was a national commercial. And so that was kind of the kicking off point where I think they went, oh, we can do something with this for real. And so that was, that was the start of it.

• 10:30Alex Cooper?

  So you start as a model.

• 10:32Speaker 01

  Started as a kid model.

• 10:33Alex Cooper?

  And do you have any, like, core memories or no? You were just so young.

• 10:37Speaker 01

  Not really. Like, I only remember the photos because I've seen them, you know?

• 10:40Alex Cooper?

  Okay. So then you get The Grinch at six?

• 10:44Speaker 01

  That's also blurry. It's five, six.

• 10:46Alex Cooper?

  Five, six.

• 10:47Speaker 01

  Somewhere in there.

• 10:47Alex Cooper?

  Okay, five, six. You star as Cindy Lou Who. Talk to me about like the audition. Do you remember the audition at all?

• 10:56Speaker 01

  I remember pieces of the audition because it was a really long process. That's why the timeline's a little blurry. So I think I started auditioning for it when I was five and it came out when I was seven. So I had birthdays in between there, obviously.

• 11:10Speaker 01

  But the audition process was long. I remember going in, there's lots of rounds of it. And I remember the screen testing the most because that's where it was down to me and two other girls. And we got to try on wigs and that's where they were starting to kind of put together what Cindy's gonna look like. And so I went from a neon pink wig to a green wig to a yellow wig to this kind of outfit, to this kind of outfit. And that process was really, really fun for me as a kid because you get to play dress up and it's awesome. And so it's, it's pieces of it. It's hard, starting so young, it's always hard to remember what you remember and what you remember because people have told you the stories and you've turned them into memories.

• 11:52Speaker 01

  Also, I can watch my entire life. So it's how much do you remember? How much are you watching it and remembering from that, you know?

• 12:01Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, because it's like similar, very different, but similar just for a kid in your childhood, you get told things by your parents. And then you're like, oh, cool.

• 12:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:09Alex Cooper?

  And you see a picture and then you can kind of also like fakely come up with what you think you remember from that.

• 12:13Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 12:14Alex Cooper?

  But we're so fucking young and like five years old. Cause I was thinking, you're saying it was so fun to do these, try on these wigs. But do you remember any part of you in any capacity being like intimidated by being a part of something so big? Or you didn't even understand?

• 12:28Speaker 01

  I didn't understand that. And I, I never remember being nervous or anything like that. It was, it was fun. It was like, that's what I'm saying. Like Grinch is like, is so positive for me. Like that, my memories of that are so awesome.

• 12:42Alex Cooper?

  Okay, you had to go to Who School. Sorry, just indulge me because like we're getting close to the holidays.

• 12:47Speaker 01

  Talking about fun, Who School was amazing.

• 12:49Alex Cooper?

  Do you remember like the wildest things that you got to be a part of during that time?

• 12:54Speaker 01

  Well, the entire Who School was, I think it was like seven months long of all the people and all the acrobats training to, to learn to act and, and create this world that Ron saw in his head of this whimsical, over the top Whoville. Um, so they had, so walking into that was a big, uh, you know, like, what are they called? Like hangars?

• 13:16Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 13:16Speaker 01

  The big sets on Universal lot.

• 13:18Alex Cooper?

  Yep.

• 13:18Speaker 01

  And it was just empty, but they had giant, you know, life-sized balls that acrobats are walking on and people doing backflips. And so you walked into this world and you're just going, what is this kid playground? And I, I did all my own stunts. So I had to learn how to, I did stunt training.

• 13:35Alex Cooper?

  Okay, wait, but you didn't have to do the prosthetics, right?

• 13:38Speaker 01

  I didn't have to do the prosthetics. They, Rick Baker molded my face. And after he casted me and stuff, I think everyone just kind of collectively decided that that's too much to put a kid through, um, to have to go into prosthetics every day. So they wrote it into the script that I haven't, haven't grown into my nose yet.

• 13:56Alex Cooper?

  No, honestly adorable. I also was thinking about that because I think I saw an article somewhere where it was like Jim Carrey would sit in like eight and a half hours of prosthetics.

• 14:07Speaker 01

  Prosthetics and it killed him. Like he, from what I remember, it was brutal on him.

• 14:12Alex Cooper?

  Insane.

• 14:13Speaker 01

  He went, I think he, he, feel free, Jim, feel free to tell me if I'm wrong, but if I remember correctly, I think he went through actual torture training, like with a real Navy SEAL guy to learn how to deal with it because it, he's, he's so covered. I mean, the suit, the, and the contacts. I remember there was a time when, because we had all that fake snow coming down and the snow got underneath his contact and it, you know, killed him. Like so painful.

• 14:39Alex Cooper?

  No, no, no. I, I genuinely can't imagine, but then obviously like he brought it to life in such a beautiful way. Do you remember just like what it was like having him as your co-star? Cause he's obviously so fucking talented. It's like crazy.

• 14:52Speaker 01

  Insane. To see that level of, of talent.

• 14:56Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 14:56Speaker 01

  At such a young age, I think really had a big impact on me. Um, just to see someone who takes their craft that seriously. And I get Asked a lot if he scared me, you know, because everyone, I think a lot of kids were scared of the Grinch. He's never scary to me. To me, he was always Jim and he was always in makeup. Um, he was very protective of me. He was very kind, super funny, super animated. Like absolutely awesome. But the funny thing is I never knew what Jim Carrey looked like. Because I never saw him because he was there way early doing the prosthetics.

• 15:27Alex Cooper?

  Oh my God. So you're like, Jim Carrey is the Grinch.

• 15:30Speaker 01

  Jim Carrey is the Grinch. So I didn't know who Jim was until the premiere. And someone had to point him out to me and go, that's Jim. And I went, oh, Jim.

• 15:39Alex Cooper?

  That's such a mind fuck. You're like, wait a second. I know the voice, but you're, oh, wow. Okay, so we're talking about this like beautiful moment in your life. And then like you referenced earlier, then you go back to school. So you're like experiencing the most incredible, like kids would dream of this and you're on these sets and you're doing all that. And then you go back to school and are you living in St. Louis?

• 16:02Speaker 01

  Living in St. Louis. Um, my dad works there and I was going to Catholic school. And, oh yeah, that's the whole thing.

• 16:09Alex Cooper?

  Oh, oh, how'd that go?

• 16:11Speaker 01

  Oh, wonderful. Don't you know? Weren't the nuns awesome?

• 16:14Alex Cooper?

  They were so loving and understanding.

• 16:16Speaker 01

  So loving and understanding. I loved when I got really tall and my skirt got too short and I got punished for it. That was super fun.

• 16:22Alex Cooper?

  Stop there, like literally measuring to the knee.

• 16:26Speaker 01

  Did you have to do it? Did you do the kneel?

• 16:27Alex Cooper?

  Yes.

• 16:28Speaker 01

  Where they make you kneel and measure from your hip down?

• 16:30Alex Cooper?

  Taylor, I like black it out because I was like, no, please don't make me. And I agree with you. Some girls got away if they were shorter with like the skirts could be a little shorter, but if you were tall.

• 16:39Speaker 01

  And I just outgrew it. It's not my fault. I went through a growth spurt, but nope, you're in trouble.

• 16:44Alex Cooper?

  Okay. So you're going through all this. Talk to me though about being a kid and like, did you have friends? Were you able to make friends?

• 16:51Speaker 01

  I, I always, I've always had like a couple of close friends in every stage of my life. Um, one or two. But making, I was.

• 17:03Speaker 01

  I've gone through so many phases of myself. Like, I think the weirdest thing that people probably don't know about me is that I'm actually really shy. And no one guesses that. And so I have this external version of myself that is the performer and the professional and the all of that. But that's where like songwriting became really important to me because that's where I felt like I could be me. And I started writing when I was really little. So like around Grinch, like five.

• 17:33Alex Cooper?

  But I think that makes sense because now being more involved in the industry, like I think a lot of actors, not everyone, like goes through these weird moments where it's like, I'm reading the lines that someone else wrote. I'm doing what the director is telling me to do. And so like, there, there's not a lot of autonomy that you've got going on in these situations. So like, to have something as an outlet that like you can genuinely have for yourself. I think a lot of actors try to find that for themselves. Because we as consumers think that these actors are like they somehow maybe wrote the lines or they did these things. And then a lot of actors like, no, I'm like, just doing what everyone's telling me to do. And that from a young age of like, you're starting so young

• 18:15Alex Cooper?

  of reading these lines, being these characters, everyone knows you as these characters. You're like, wait, wait, who is Taylor as a human being outside of that?

• 18:23Speaker 01

  Well, I think I always had a really strong sense of self. I always knew that. And, you know, that's why Grinch is weird. But once you get into, Grinch is specific. And then once you get into teenage years with Gossip Girl and things, that's where I think my identity crisis started to come into play. Where, because that was a whole different world. Grinch is a film that came out that it clearly lives in an imagination, in an imagination world. You know, I don't walk out of my house and have a Cindy Lou Who wig on. So it's, so there was a, there was a clear line there for me, I think, where this is plain dress up and this is Taylor. And when it got into Gossip Girl, and suddenly that was a celebrity.

• 19:09Speaker 01

  Show and a tabloid show and New York and paparazzi and suddenly you're being photographed as a character by paparazzi and put into the tabloids as Taylor and it's going, I'm going, that's not what I was wearing. That's not me. That's a character. And I'm getting hate from things I did on the show that I have nothing to do with. And so I think, and I was young, I was 14. So I think that that, that started to bother me. And that's where I started to realize like, I'm not good at being someone else's tool. Like, I need to be my own person.

• 19:44Alex Cooper?

  Also, Taylor, you saying 14, 14.

• 19:47Speaker 01

  13 in the pilot.

• 19:49Alex Cooper?

  13, 14, that's like, right when people are going into high school. And even if you're not an actress, we're all fucked in the head at that point.

• 19:55Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 19:55Alex Cooper?

  Because we're like, who am I? And some people are going through puberty faster than others. And some people have, you know, are figuring out their sexual identity. And some people feel, and you're just like, what, who am I? I am a disaster. So to also be doing it on the world stage and playing a character that can somewhat seem like you, but it's not you. It's just, it's a lot.

• 20:14Speaker 01

  It was a mindfuck.

• 20:31Alex Cooper?

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• 21:14Alex Cooper?

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• 21:56Alex Cooper?

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• 24:23Alex Cooper?

  So you're living in St. Louis. You get more jobs and then you get Gossip Girl at 13 years old.

• 24:29Speaker 01

  Well, they were missing a move. So I lived in St. Louis till I was 10 and then my dad switched jobs and we moved to Maryland. So now I'm in middle school in Maryland and I have just started my first band. Like an actual garage band with kids from my school. I finally found my little clique, which was kind of the first time in my life I felt that. And it was exciting to me and I was still the weird art kid who, you know, wore combat boots and leather jackets to school. And this was Potomac, Maryland. So this is very preppy and

• 24:59Alex Cooper?

  Love that for you.

• 25:00Speaker 01

  All the girls had bows in their hair and Uggs and matching Juicy Couture sweatsuits. And so I was very always just off in schools. So I found my, you know, found my crowd, found the art crowd, started my first band and was doing really well. Like I was, I was well adjusted to this, to the school and this group of friends. And that's when Gossip Girl came around and that's when my, I said, they go, you're going to move to New York. You're going to audition for this and you would have to move to New York for it.

• 25:30Speaker 01

  No, no, no. I don't want to do this anymore. I love what I'm, I love where I'm at. And 12 at the time. And my agent, my manager, they all flew to my house to convince me to audition for this going, this is going to be a great opportunity and you'll get some move to New York and it's fashion based. You love fashion and you love New York and blah, blah, blah. So, long story short, ended up going to New York to audition for it.

• 25:57Alex Cooper?

  Where are your parents at this point?

• 25:59Speaker 01

  Oh, they're there. They're encouraging the, I mean, they're encouraging this choice. And I don't think it was with any kind of malice or anything like that. I think they're just looking at going, this is a huge opportunity and just because you're having a good time in school right now, it doesn't mean you pass up on something that's this massive.

• 26:16Alex Cooper?

  Did you at all, because I know I've talked to kid, child actors that like, there is like an obvious, the financial pressure of just like, you're a working child. And I know it's like an awkward topic. So like, share what you're comfortable, but like, was that a factor at all in this decision?

• 26:37Speaker 01

  Um, it wasn't spoken about to me, you know, and I'm still not even a teenager yet. So the, I never realized I was making money. Let's put it that way. So that kind of, if this was always, this is fun and you like this. And there was an element of,

• 26:59Speaker 01

  you know, you do well, you get praise. You don't do well, you don't. And so,

• 27:06Speaker 01

  it's, it's, it's a lot to unpack, I think, probably as a, as an adult, looking back on it. And I think a lot of my life now I spend not really thinking about it and going, because I'm, I'm one that very much does not live with regret or wishing I could change things or whatever. That's just not my vibe. Um, because I think it's kind of pointless. So, so I'm very like, I'm always looking forward and I reflect on things in order to write about them and process them and that kind of stuff. But the, it is what it is at this point. You know what I mean?

• 27:38Alex Cooper?

  Again, I think like, it's, there is a, um,

• 27:43Alex Cooper?

  Natural like empathy that I think like the world now just has for child actors. Because I think of just like the honest truth that just has come out for a lot of these people that like went through this. And like, when you did get into Gossip Girl, did you then understand that you were making money? Or like, at what point do you think you were like, wait, you guys, I, this is also like mine?

• 28:06Speaker 01

  It was Gossip Girl and it was, well, I, I left, I moved out really young. Um, so it was around that time that I started to realize, like, suddenly I was becoming in charge of my own finances and, and that kind of stuff. And so that's when I kind of put everything together. But, uh, it was, it was Gossip Girl that made, Gossip Girl's a weird one, because like, in one way, it was, you know, it was awesome. Um, and in the other way, I really didn't want to be there. So it was this, it was this, it was me starting to come into my own as a person and having this tug is where music is the thing. Because I was starting

• 28:50Speaker 01

  to do that. I was always writing songs. I was always doing these things behind the scenes. But now to be so universally famous for something that isn't me was really challenging for me. And so I felt like I immediately became very defensive. I was defensive in interviews. I was very, also young, so arrogant and kind of an asshole and, you know, all those things.

• 29:11Alex Cooper?

  Figuring it out in front of everyone.

• 29:12Speaker 01

  But figuring it out in front of everyone and being judged, you know, very harshly for it. Um, while trying to push back against that going, I don't want this. I want this over here. And I don't know how to get to this place.

• 29:25Alex Cooper?

  It's almost like you couldn't stop it. Once the train started moving and as we know how big Gossip Girl got.

• 29:30Speaker 01

  And no one expected that.

• 29:32Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. Okay. Take me to your agents decide, okay, you gotta do this. You eventually say yes. You go to New York. You read for the part, like,

• 29:42Speaker 01

  I read for the part.

• 29:42Alex Cooper?

  What was your first impression of Jenny Humphrey?

• 29:45Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, I kind of related to the character. I never really auditioned for things that I didn't understand. And feeling like an outcast in a, you know, in a world that you don't fit in was kind of, that's who I was. It wasn't. Yeah, I wasn't from Brooklyn and then all that stuff, but it was the is a general concept of a character I I identified with her.

• 30:06Alex Cooper?

  I feel like now I was about to say this, I'm like, oh, this was kind of a theme lightly in The Grinch for you too, but like you're 14 on set and everyone else is like bare minimum mid twenties, like you are beyond the youngest person really on this set. How did that dynamic impact you?

• 30:24Speaker 01

  Well, I grew up real fast. Let's put it that way. Um, but no, I mean, everyone was cool. It was, I still had Connor, um, who played Eric. He's still one of my best friends. Love that guy.

• 30:35Alex Cooper?

  Well, that's nice because you also had like a lot of scenes with him.

• 30:37Speaker 01

  A lot of scenes with him and he kind of, when I first moved to New York, he took me under his wing. I actually ended up going to his high school. And so he introduced me to his friend group and, you know, that kind of whole world, which was only about a year. I ended up graduating early because it freshmen trying to go to a, it had to be a performing arts high school. Because that's the only way that I could leave and work and they would give you your work to to leave. And I was really adamant about not wanting to be homeschooled because I wanted to make friends. Um, but the reality is the work schedule was too much and I wasn't going there anyway. So I ended up leaving that homeschooling and then graduating at 16.

• 31:14Alex Cooper?

  So you're 16 and you're 15, you're living in New York City, you're no longer going to high school. What are you doing when you're not filming?

• 31:23Speaker 01

  Um, I was working in the studio. I was writing and working in the studio and then getting into trouble. You know, but typical trouble.

• 31:31Alex Cooper?

  Typical as like you would do in New York City as a young girl that's just like, I, I have all of this and no one's going to tell me no.

• 31:39Speaker 01

  And all my friends were older and I never once got ID'd. So it was, that's also part with celebrity, you know, suddenly all those kinds, all those kinds of doors are just open to you and it's fine.

• 31:50Alex Cooper?

  Did you go out with the cast at all or no? You had a separate?

• 31:54Speaker 01

  Um, I didn't go out with them too much, but I would hang out at their apartments and stuff like Chase and Ed lived together at the time and

• 32:01Alex Cooper?

  When I had Chase on and he told me about the rooftop parties, I was like, okay, so you frequented the rooftop.

• 32:06Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, we lived like two blocks from each other.

• 32:08Alex Cooper?

  Oh, you were having the time of your life.

• 32:10Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. So I would spend a lot of time at their apartment and it was very boys' club, which was very fitting to me. I've always fit in with boys' clubs.

• 32:18Alex Cooper?

  You're like, I'm ready. I remember he came on, what was it? He was like, oh, I remember one time we had the party and like Lindsay Lohan showed up and we were like, act cool, act cool. This is cool. This is cool. This is cool. Okay. So you were there.

• 32:27Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 32:28Alex Cooper?

  So this is, that's like the, although still you're young, but that's kind of the fun side of like, okay, you're getting to become an adult. You're doing it in a pretty fast paced way. But when I did interview Chase and Penn, and this is kind of what you had lightly alluded to and lightly talked about earlier in this interview is the sudden and intense fame.

• 32:49Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 32:49Alex Cooper?

  And the explosion of the show that no one could have anticipated.

• 32:53Speaker 01

  No one could have.

• 32:55Alex Cooper?

  Just talk to me about it. Like from like when it first starts, like how does it impact you off the bat?

• 33:00Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, the first, the first impact is the paparazzi and that's something that I hadn't dealt with before. And in New York, there's no escaping it. At least at that time. Now I still live in New York and now I know, now there's like kind of rules to it.

• 33:15Alex Cooper?

  You know where to go.

• 33:15Speaker 01

  You know where to go. You know where not to go. And you know, you know, if you're in Soho, be prepared to be photographed. It's fair game.

• 33:20Alex Cooper?

  Yes.

• 33:21Speaker 01

  But they were coming to my house. They were going to my sister's school. They were, they were everywhere and that kind of, that feeling of kind of being watched and stalked is just, it's intimidating is, I guess that it's, it's unnerving.

• 33:37Alex Cooper?

  And there's also like no one that has the right answer of what to do other than like, just deal with it.

• 33:43Speaker 01

  Just deal with it.

• 33:44Alex Cooper?

  And all of your castmates were going through it, but again, you were at such a young age that I can only imagine you're like, trying to grow up and handle it, but also like, did your parents move to the city?

• 33:54Speaker 01

  Mom, my mom and me and my sister did. And my dad was still working in Maryland.

• 33:59Alex Cooper?

  Okay. Was there ever a time that you can like recall a memory of like when you were like, no, no, no, this is like really getting too much?

• 34:08Speaker 01

  I think the reality is I handled it really well. I think I'm pretty thick skinned. The end of the day, I've, I've lived a very strange life and I've learned to kind of let things roll off my back. But there was, it was less the paparazzi in person that went, this is too much and more what would come out afterwards from the photos. And that that would turn, and that really started once I started the band, like the negative press, where there was this kind of hatred of what I was doing from the world. And people being like, here's, okay, here's an example. I'm on stage, I'm 16, I'm playing a show, I'm wearing a little dress. I have underwear on, but a photographer goes and shoots up my skirt.

• 34:53Speaker 01

  He kneels down, shoots up my dress and my tampon string had slipped out. And so my tampon string was sticking out of my underwear. Perez Hilton puts that on the homepage of Perez Hilton. You can see like the side of my pussy and everything like it's like a very, it's still on the internet. Have fun looking it up, but it's, A, I'm underage and the, the violation and it's, and his headline, I don't remember what it said, but the headline was very negative of like slut, like look what, like, look how trashy Taylor is kind of thing. And that kind of concept, like it's so invasive and I laugh about it now. And I laughed about it probably a week later because there's nothing you can do about it.

• 35:34Speaker 01

  But that's the kind of press that we're talking about where people were very, or I was in a taxi cab and paparazzi jumped in the cab with me and it's blinding lights and I go like this to cover my face and my assistant and friend at the time covers my face and it's on the homepage of whatever tabloid site going Taylor Momsen fucked up leaving club because my eyes are kind of rolling back from the, they pick the one shot that looks bad and try to spin some kind of negative story around it. So I was getting a lot of negative press. Looking back, I probably should have hired a publicist, but I didn't know better.

• 36:08Alex Cooper?

  A publicist or a therapist or a bodyguard or Jesus fucking Christ. There's no right answer though. Dude, I, okay, you saying though, that you're like, I would probably laugh about it a week later. Did you ever have breakdowns over this kind of invasion of privacy and absolute like exploitation?

• 36:29Speaker 01

  Probably internally, I never showed them. And again, that's where songwriting came into play. Like, that's where the first album, everything turns around here. Like, I don't, because I don't, it's not all negative. It's more that I learned to take the hard things in my life from any aspect of it, you know, big or small, and turn it into music. And that's how I've coped with life. Like, music is my therapy. And it was finding the right, finding the right partners musically for me was everything. And so when I did, it changed my life. And I suddenly then had a support system in my band and in Kato,

• 37:09Speaker 01

  our producer, who supported me for me and what I wanted to do and my vision. And they had no ulterior motive, or like, there was nothing from the outside. It was just pure support of like, you do what you want to do. And that was huge.

• 37:24Alex Cooper?

  I can't imagine, like, what you're saying of, like, that young girl in Maryland, loving more than anything, making music, and being like, I'm really good at this. And I'm like, finding, I'm finding my voice and all of that, then kind of getting thrust into this spotlight, like you said, through a career that you actually weren't really that passionate about or excited about?

• 37:46Speaker 01

  No. And I was coming to, that's the thing, like, when I was little, I liked it. Like, I didn't, but I didn't know better. That was just, I started at two. So it was something I just always did. So there was no choice in the matter. It wasn't forced upon me. I wasn't like, you know, going, throwing tantrums, going, I don't want to do this. And my parents going, you have to. It wasn't that. But I wasn't making my own decisions. I didn't, I wasn't seeing past it. And when I hit 12, 13, 14 with Gossip Girl, and this whole other world is thrown on you, that you didn't ask for, like, fame. Fame is this thing that you got to kick over your shoulder. And it's something you deal with that comes with it. But when you're not prepared for it, which I don't think

• 38:29Speaker 01

  anyone ever is. But when it's something that, I'm just going to work and doing what I've always done. And now suddenly, there's this whole other aspect to it that you have to learn to navigate.

• 38:39Alex Cooper?

  Again, and the... Difference between like being a woman and a man in this industry is like astronomically different because the photo that you just described being on the front page of someone's website that is like so that like is should literally be illegal of how they're violating your body especially not even especially

• 39:00Speaker 01

  Well, it's also child porn. So I don't know how that's still like

• 39:03Alex Cooper?

  You're underage, underage or not, complete violation. I was looking up and I just started to see like a lot of the tabloids also that they were referring to sometimes as this wild child or this party girl. And then you're giving a little bit of this behind the scenes of like, no, that's literally just like a picture that you're in my fucking cab violating

• 39:21Speaker 01

  You're in my cab. First of all, I was never really a wild child. I had, I was working all the time. Like I would go to set on Gossip Girl because I started making the first record while I was still on the show because I formed the band at 14. So I would go to work at four in the morning on Gossip Girl, work till six, whatever time we wrapped, go straight to the studio and work in the studio from whatever that time was till 2 a.m. Come back, sleep for maybe an hour and then do it all again. So I was working all the time. So this whole like wild child persona, it was just the makeup and my fashion choices, which were a bit outrageous, but very me. Like I was just being authentic. And so I

• 40:04Speaker 01

  think some of that was curated. And also, I was, my, it's my image. My image was a little out there. And I was very, I mean, now I call it pretentious. I look back on it and I go, oh, it's like cringey how pretentious some of the things I would say was and how I'd speak and carry myself. But that's who I was at the time. And I, and I think that some of that pretension came across extra because I was being defensive because I was, I felt like I constantly had to defend who I was as a person every time someone asked me a question instead of just answering it kind of honestly, you know?

• 40:44Alex Cooper?

  Yes, I, I think there was like, again, you're so young. There's like a level of like,

• 40:50Alex Cooper?

  Internally, you were trying to protect yourself. And so like I get

• 40:56Speaker 01

  I was fighting.

• 40:57Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 40:57Speaker 01

  I was more fighting going, this is me. You're getting it wrong. So I felt like I really had to fight to explain who I was. When now as an adult, you just be who you are and relax into it.

• 41:11Alex Cooper?

  Yes, but I also think I was thinking about this is like, I've now interviewed a good amount of people who have been a part of a franchise that was all consuming. And the fandom level is just like you, you will

• 41:26Speaker 01

  It was intense.

• 41:27Alex Cooper?

  And you'll never be able to describe it, right? Like, and they're, and it's once in sometimes generations, like there's these very specific shows that just take the world by storm. And I think the fandom, we are watching these romanticized shows that are very curated and there's directors and there's writers rooms and these are really good fucking shows.

• 41:46Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 41:47Alex Cooper?

  But then we are blurring the lines between Jenny Humphrey is not Taylor Momsen and Taylor Momsen is not Jenny Humphrey, but people don't give a fuck. And so they want you to be

• 41:58Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 41:59Alex Cooper?

  Jenny Humphrey. And you're like, guys.

• 42:01Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 42:02Alex Cooper?

  I'm literally, I am from St. Louis.

• 42:04Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 42:05Alex Cooper?

  I'm not from Brooklyn.

• 42:07Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 42:07Alex Cooper?

  And so can you talk to me a little bit about like, having this hard time between separating yourself from Jenny Humphrey and Taylor and like, how the fuck did you mentally do that?

• 42:20Speaker 01

  Well, I quit.

• 42:21Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 42:21Speaker 01

  That's

• 42:22Alex Cooper?

  Oh, yeah, we're getting there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're like, bitch, I left.

• 42:24Speaker 01

  I left. I went, I can't do this. Um, it's, it was a struggle there for, for years, but I, I, what I did was I, I treated it very much like a job, a professional. I showed up, I did my job. And then I went to the studio.

• 42:37Alex Cooper?

  Did you resent her though?

• 42:38Speaker 01

  And was me.

• 42:39Alex Cooper?

  Like the character?

• 42:40Speaker 01

  I resented the

• 42:44Speaker 01

  I didn't resent, I don't know how to explain this. When I left the show and I was no longer on it and I was just touring with the band and just putting out music and I quit everything else and that's all I was doing. And every question and every interview was still about Gossip Girl and Jenny Humphrey and will you ever go back to acting? And blah, blah, blah, and the list of questions on and on and on. The first year, you get it. The second year, you kind of laugh at it. By like, as it kept going, I was going, oh, I'm never gonna outlive this character. And that's a, that's a weird thing to come to grips with. So you just kind of, I ignored it. You live your life.

• 43:23Alex Cooper?

  And I feel like from what we're talking about is like, you're going to the studio, you're recording after Gossip Girl. But then, like you said, people really didn't want to hear about you as a musician because they're like,

• 43:36Speaker 01

  Well, they didn't take it seriously, which in their defense, I wouldn't have either.

• 43:42Alex Cooper?

  Okay, talk about that.

• 43:43Speaker 01

  If I was, if you brought to me a fourteen year old fronted rock band with a chick who was on a soap opera, I would roll my eyes at it and go, yeah, I don't give two fucks about whatever you're trying to show me right now.

• 43:58Alex Cooper?

  Fair.

• 43:59Speaker 01

  So of course they did, like,

• 44:01Alex Cooper?

  Yes.

• 44:01Speaker 01

  Because I picked the hardest path. I didn't, I, I, trying to gain credibility in a world that is impossible to gain credibility, coming from the circumstances that I came from. A, rock and roll, hard as hell. B, a woman in rock and roll, hard as hell. And then three, teenage soap star.

• 44:23Alex Cooper?

  You're like,

• 44:24Speaker 01

  Lots to be taken seriously. So it was just, I had everything stacked against me.

• 44:28Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 44:28Speaker 01

  In that way. But, and so there's a lot of, this is fake and she's a poser and this is who so and so writes her songs and blah, blah, blah. None of which was true. I write everything myself. I co-produce the records. Like it is, there is no, there's no one but me and the band involved in what we do. And it's, it's, it's incredibly personal and it's incredible and I take it incredibly seriously. And I realized very quickly that the only way to overcome that kind of, Hate or whatever is to A shut it out and just do it.

• 45:05Alex Cooper?

  Keep going.

• 45:05Speaker 01

  Well, you just do it.

• 45:06Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 45:06Speaker 01

  You keep going. You tore, we tore the world relentlessly. I kept writing songs. We kept putting out records you and you have to do it the old school way.

• 45:14Alex Cooper?

  You're like, I'm not, I'm not going anywhere. Consistency. Just keep, hi, here we go again. Another song.

• 45:19Speaker 01

  I can't, cause you can't keep explaining yourself. There's no point in explaining yourself. So I got tired of that and gave up on it. And then that's when things actually started to get easier is when I stopped being so defensive and just was.

• 45:31Alex Cooper?

  Well, isn't that fucking beautiful? Right. It's nice. It sounds so straightforward, but it's so fucking hard.

• 45:38Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 45:38Alex Cooper?

  And again, because we're talking like, just reminding everyone again, 14, 15, 16 years old, like, most people are having like their fucking sweet 16s in Alabama and being like, mom, can I get a padded bra? And you're trying to pivot as a young woman in an industry where most of the time we are only accepted as one thing. And it's like, good luck. Okay, we're get, now I'm, we're gonna get there. Cause now I want to finish off with, you said, bitch, I fucking quit. Like,

• 46:05Speaker 01

  I quit.

• 46:05Alex Cooper?

  Let's talk about it. How did you, when, how early on did you actually know I want to get the fuck out of here?

• 46:10Speaker 01

  Hmm. It's definitely, when did I actually leave? Was it season three? I never watched the show, so my timeline's always messed up.

• 46:17Alex Cooper?

  Okay. So you leave?

• 46:18Speaker 01

  I'm gone by season four.

• 46:19Alex Cooper?

  Season four.

• 46:20Speaker 01

  Season four. So season one's a whirlwind. It was probably around season two. It was whenever I started the band. Like when I met, I met Ben and Cato, um, and it changed everything.

• 46:32Alex Cooper?

  Did you talk to them though, about being on this show, being like, guys, I gotta get out of here?

• 46:37Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 46:38Alex Cooper?

  You're like, guys.

• 46:39Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 46:40Alex Cooper?

  Jail. Get me out.

• 46:42Speaker 01

  I was, I, I knew I had to leave, but at the same time, leaving a career that is so prosperous and.

• 46:51Speaker 01

  Was not easy.

• 46:53Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 46:53Speaker 01

  Um, it was an easy decision for me, not, not, I'm sorry, I shouldn't say not easy, not easy, not easy in the way of like to actually get out of a contract was not easy.

• 47:03Alex Cooper?

  Okay, talk to me.

• 47:04Speaker 01

  So this, this was hard. So it was, it started with a, I don't want to do this anymore, but you're in a lock and key contract with CW, Warner Brothers, you know, all of that stuff. And it came down to, it was a very long battle of me arguing everyone and going, get me out of this. I can't do this anymore. This is killing me. Like I, I have something else I want to do with my life and it has nothing to do with this and I, I can't be stuck here anymore. And, you know, you're called ungrateful and you're called, like all, you know, all the things that come along with, how dare you turn your back on something that's been so successful for you was hard, but it came down-

• 47:45Alex Cooper?

  How do you feel about that though? When people say that?

• 47:48Speaker 01

  Oh, I just want, fuck you. You don't know what you're talking, like you're not in my shoes. So how dare you judge this?

• 47:55Speaker 01

  That's, so I was very, very defensive. Um, but it came down to, they wouldn't let me out of the contract. The head of Warner Brothers said, fuck Taylor Momsen. No fucking way. I go to the writers and Stephanie Savage and Josh Schwartz, who I love, like genuinely love and explained the situation. There was, you know, lots of talks about it, but they essentially went, well, we can't let you out of the contract because that's not our job, but we can write you out of the show. We understand what you want, or what you're trying to do here. You're not going to be able to act because you're under contract. So you can't go take another job and join some other TV show or some other movie. And I'm like, that's perfectly fine. So I'm trying to get out. Like it's not what I want to do anyways.

• 48:39Speaker 01

  Good. Um, so I really have to credit them for doing that for me because they did not have to and they, they wrote me out of the show so I could go on tour and be in a band.

• 48:49Alex Cooper?

  How did you share this with castmates? Were you close with anyone enough to share it? Or just kind of say peace out?

• 48:57Speaker 01

  Not really. I kind of just Irish dipped. I just, I wasn't in the script the next week.

• 49:02Alex Cooper?

  Um, they're like, where's Taylor?

• 49:04Speaker 01

  I mean, they all knew I was making music. They all knew I had a band. Like I would play them stuff and I guess I was working on the first record while I was on the show. So I would come in and play songs and play music and- You know, that kind of stuff, but I don't think anyone knew how serious I was at that stage.

• 49:19Alex Cooper?

  Do you remember your last day on set? Were you like counting down the hours?

• 49:25Speaker 01

  I remember the, well, the last, I actually do now that you bring it up. My last scene was in the, I think it might be the la, I never, again, I've never watched the show, but I think it might be the last scene you see Jenny in. And so I think it's me like on the train going to live with my mom or whatever the write out story was. And I'm like leaning on the window and I think that was the, that was the rap scene, which is very fitting. Um, and then I came back for the very finale because just to, as, as a fan of television and a fan of the shows I love, like when you have the full cast together again for, like you want to full circle that and round it out.

• 50:04Alex Cooper?

  So you mentioned, which I do think is a great point, that like you walked away from a pretty stable job to create this, you know, full career out of this band. That making it in the music industry is not easy, as we've kind of talked about. Um, was your family supportive of this decision?

• 50:25Speaker 01

  Um, yeah. I mean, I don't think they, at this point, I was so strong headed and bulldozing my way into what I wanted in my life that I don't think anyone could have stopped me. How about not think, I, no one could have stopped me. And yes, some people tried. So I think there was a, a level of they had to accept that this is what I was doing. And either get on board or get out.

• 50:53Alex Cooper?

  Um, the dichotomy of this actress to then this musician, and you talked about it a little bit of like, people not taking it seriously in the very beginning. How did that affect though, just how you felt about your art? Cause what you've been talking about this whole interview is like, how to the core passionate you are about making music. And a lot of it, you say in the beginning was just like, sometimes people weren't even hearing my music. This has been for some, from a very young age, I've been writing. So at the beginning of your life, it's been really just for you as this outlet. But then as you're now trying to make a career out of it and people are still like, oh, fucking Jenny Humphries trying to start a fucking band, like how the fuck did you?

• 51:34Speaker 01

  It was just like that too. That's exactly, that's like, and quoted by Alex. That ain't fucking up for it. No, but like.

• 51:42Alex Cooper?

  How fucking annoying and how did you, I know you said you kind of put your head down, but like, were there moments where you were like, I'm never going to shake this?

• 51:52Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, there was definitely feelings of that.

• 51:54Alex Cooper?

  Did you lean in any capacity, like persona wise, heavily into certain aspects to try to really detract from the Jenny aura?

• 52:03Speaker 01

  Probably.

• 52:04Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 52:04Speaker 01

  Um, probably not so calculated. Thing you have to know, I mean, I really love comedy. And I think everything's funny and that's kind of how I get through life. I laugh at everything. You gotta be able to make light of it or.

• 52:19Alex Cooper?

  We're going down.

• 52:20Speaker 01

  It'll eat you, so, um. So anything that I could, like, I really enjoyed shocking people because I thought it was funny. So I was sixteen, fifteen, sixteen, and I was like, oh, I'm gonna wear stripper shoes onstage. I'm gonna put X's on my tits and flash them. I'm gonna wear outfits from Hustler and be as outrageously like pornographic Lolita over the top because it freaks people out and it's super funny. Loved it. And so that became a part, but that's also who I was. Like, I enjoyed that. It wasn't, it wasn't calculated of like, if I do this, I'll get this reaction.

• 53:00Alex Cooper?

  Totally.

• 53:01Speaker 01

  That's how I dressed in my everyday life, but once I started to see the reaction, I went, well, that's just, oh, you don't like my dark eye makeup? Let's make it a little darker. Oh, my, oh, my really tall heels are bothering you? Let's make them loose sight and put money in them. Like, you know, it was that kind of, so I think that that was definitely a fun, but I had fun with it.

• 53:20Alex Cooper?

  I feel like, again, some people don't deal with it on the world stage, but that is relatable and like, playing with your image and as women, like outfits and makeup and everything to really like self-express. And I love that you're saying, like, I, yes, I of course understood what it was doing, but I was still enjoying myself.

• 53:42Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 53:43Alex Cooper?

  Because half of it is like, people can have social commentary on this, but guess what? You're now finally doing what you truly fucking love. And that's all that matters.

• 53:50Speaker 01

  And I was always my own stylist and my own everything. So like, I went shopping and I put those things together and some of them are a little questionable when you look back, but like, in general, that's, that I was being the most authentic version of myself at that time.

• 54:04Alex Cooper?

  So what is the story behind the name The Pretty Reckless?

• 54:08Speaker 01

  Story behind The Pretty Reckless? Okay, so we formed the band. We now need a band name, which turns out band name is the hardest thing in the fucking world.

• 54:16Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 54:17Speaker 01

  To come up with, especially in the internet age. Every band name's taken or trademarked. So anything you think of, can't use that, can't use that, can't use that.

• 54:26Speaker 01

  Kato came up with The Reckless. And I went, I love it because I knew I wanted it to be a the because of the Beatles. And I wanted it to be like one word, not one of those long sentence band names, like something simple and whatever. So he went The Reckless. Perfect. That's the name. We go to trademark it. There's an issue. There's some band from the seventies called The Reckless. Can't get it. And my lawyer goes, well, just add a word, like add any word and people will abbreviate it, you know, like Led Zeppelin. People call it Zeppelin. And she goes, and once people abbreviate it, you'll have, uh, you know, the trademark, it'll become and whatever the loophole is, then now you can trademark that also. And so we went, okay, what's the

• 55:10Speaker 01

  Pretty Reckless? Better than moderately reckless? Like, yeah, sounds good. Didn't really think of it much. And then didn't notice that everyone or didn't think ahead that everyone would abbreviate it to TPR. Not The Reckless. And hence The Pretty Reckless was born. Um, but it, but I love it now. Like, at the end of the day, the music makes the band name like the other way around. So it's now I'm, I'm fully the pretty right. Like I am the pretty reckless. So those points, it was good.

• 55:36Alex Cooper?

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• 56:19Alex Cooper?

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• 57:03Alex Cooper?

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• 57:48Alex Cooper?

  in the freezer aisle of your local grocery store. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Southern New Hampshire University. Daddy Gang, let's get real, okay? We like to make our own rules. Southern New Hampshire University gets it. They let you learn what you want with over 200 career-focused programs, where you want with 100% online courses, and how you want with no set class times. Basically, you get to call the shots from day one. Visit SNHU.edu/callherdaddy to learn more. You went on tour, obviously, with one of your favorite bands. Yeah. Soundgarden. And can you just talk to me about?

• 58:28Alex Cooper?

  How you were offered that opportunity and like what it meant to you at that time in your career?

• 58:33Speaker 01

  I have pillars of musicians that I look up to and or tiers of musicians. And when we first formed The Pretty Reckless, my two pillars are The Beatles and Soundgarden. Hands down. And, you know, they're my north stars and they were for Ben and Cato also. And that was one of the first. So we formed The Pretty Reckless over the love of those two bands. And ACDC and Pink Floyd and The Doors and, you know, the list goes on and on. But Pink, but Soundgarden and The Beatles. So to get the call. First of all, Soundgarden's been broken up forever. And so when their new record came out, they got back together.

• 59:16Speaker 01

  I about died of excitement and happiness. And then to go forward and have get the call that they are asking us to open for them. Was surreal and so validating and so exciting and I cannot picture a like a moment in my life where I was more happy than that moment. Like that was the coolest thing to ever happen to me. I was floored. I could not believe it. And it was, and it was fantastic. Like, and this is obviously going somewhere sad, but it was the greatest experience. And everything about it was phenomenal. The, I mean, they're incredible.

• 59:58Speaker 01

  Meeting them was incredible, getting to know them. And you always hear like, you know, don't meet your heroes and like, so there was a, I had a bit of nervousness around that of like, what if they aren't this thing I've built up in my head? Oh, no, they're exactly what I built up in my head. They're kind, they're awesome, their musicality is off the charts. It's ridiculous. Like their records speak to me on a level that no other band does. And it's like, I feel like, like I feel like I knew them before I met them because I, and I think a lot of people with their favorite bands feel that way. Like they know they're, it feels like a family member. It's something that I've been listening to forever.

• 1:00:40Speaker 01

  As a part of you. And so to have that become a reality was just a insane.

• 1:00:47Speaker 01

  Insane experience, not to mention they're like, it's kind of as credible as it can possibly get. And so to come from everything we just talked about and now be offered this tour, the acceptance that I felt from the rock community and from, and like them putting their stamp of approval on me and the band was just massive. Like it came with so many layers of exciting weight to get that call. It was just the greatest thing ever. And I fucking love them, Alex. I love them so fucking much.

• 1:01:19Alex Cooper?

  Again, it's like, I think anyone that is in the world of art, like there, there are, like you just said, the pillars which you look up to, whether it's your director and you look up to some of the most iconic directors that you have in your brain that inspire and influence you in so many ways. Like you wouldn't be the Pretty Reckless in the exact way you are, had you not had that influence from them. So it's like, the passion that you have is understandable because it's had such an impact on you.

• 1:01:50Alex Cooper?

  And then, obviously, the tragic.

• 1:01:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, and then it leads to, it leads to tragedy.

• 1:01:56Alex Cooper?

  Can you talk to me about?

• 1:01:59Alex Cooper?

  The lead singer passes away during that tour?

• 1:02:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. Um, well, it was the last night of tour and we played the last show in Detroit and we all said bye. Do this again sometime, you know, see you on the road. We all got on our tour buses, went to bed and I was woken up the next morning really early because the news had been passed around the camp and I was dead asleep and uh,

• 1:02:32Speaker 01

  first of all, I'm not, as we've talked about, I'm not a morning person. So I think the, like, my brain takes a while to wake up. So hearing the news that someone I just spoke to and hugged and talked to a couple hours ago is no longer here.

• 1:02:48Speaker 01

  I couldn't process it at first. Like I was, I was confused. I was going, what are you saying to me right now? And that turned into sinking in, which turned into the biggest pit in my stomach of devastation and.

• 1:03:03Speaker 01

  The wor- just the worst feeling in the world of like, I, I mean, I fell the fuck apart. I like fall on the ground. Um, and, and that was kind of the start of my, we can call my dark period. Um, it was just, it was so shocking and so like, everything about that experience for me was so traumatic. Um, but I still get shaky talking about it. Like it's, it's something I, I try not to think about too much, but that

• 1:03:34Speaker 01

  is brutal, brutal.

• 1:03:36Alex Cooper?

  Beyond like words, cause you're like, what we're talking about too, is like some of the highest highs of your life.

• 1:03:42Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:03:42Alex Cooper?

  And then immediately wrapped into the lowest lows of your life.

• 1:03:45Speaker 01

  Within like a two hour period.

• 1:03:47Alex Cooper?

  And then about a year later, one of your other best friends.

• 1:03:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:54Alex Cooper?

  Passed away.

• 1:03:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's Kato, who I've spoken about through Kato Kandwala. He produced all our records. He's my best friend in the world. Um, you know, we're inseparable, like talk every day kind of friend. And, uh, he was essentially the fifth member of Pretty Reckless. He just didn't tour with us. Um, and we lost him in a motorcycle accident and it was, as I've said before, that was the, that was the nail in the coffin for me. Like I was on a, after Chris, I was in the start of a downward spiral. And we continued to tour. It quickly came to a place that I, like of realization that I was not in a place to be public. Like I needed some time with us. I, I had to disappear and

• 1:04:36Speaker 01

  go try to handle this grief that was fucking eating me. Um, and it's, and the way that I've always dealt with hard things in life is to write about them, as I've said, and to turn it into music. And so I was finally starting to kind of come to grips with Chris, not well. Like I was definitely not doing well, but I was going, we gotta get out of this. Let's get in the studio. Let's make some music. Like let's push forward and, and do what we've always done in hard times. And as we booked the studio and as soon as that happened, I got the call that Kato had passed away in a motorcycle accident and it.

• 1:05:20Speaker 01

  It floored me. So it was kind of a, it was a giant one-two punch and because they were not that far apart from each other. And, uh, and I just went off the rails. Like, I didn't, I didn't handle that well, to say the least. Like, I got very heavy into, you know, substance abuse and this cloud of depression that I couldn't shake. And so something that I was teetering with before really took on a life of its own where I essentially gave up. I gave up on life. And when everything I love is dead, what's the fucking point?

• 1:05:52Alex Cooper?

  When you were going through that period in your life, were you,

• 1:05:58Alex Cooper?

  were you alone? Like, who did you have around you to keep you getting up every morning?

• 1:06:04Speaker 01

  I mean, it's the band. I mean, the band is my family. Um, you know, Ben Mark and Jamie, but, it, but I, I did a very good job of isolating myself at that time period. Um, and, you know, they reach out, they check in, they come over, we play, we, you know, whatever we did. But

• 1:06:27Speaker 01

  I, a lot of the time, I just would show off my phone, you know, like I, I was kind of unreachable. Um, and

• 1:06:39Speaker 01

  that was very calculated. I was very thought, like, I knew I wasn't in a good place. And A, there's like shame that comes with that, if you don't want to be seen. And B, I also knew that I had kind of given up. Like, I had to, like, ooh, like, I had to make a very conscious choice at a point where I was either going to live or I was gonna die. And I had to either stop everything I was doing and get my life together, or this was going to kill me. And I luckily chose to move forward. Um, but that was, it was, it was that serious, you know, like, it wasn't a, I was in this hole of blackness that I didn't know how to get out of. And I think the bigger thing was

• 1:07:24Speaker 01

  that I was perfectly fine with that. Like, I was perfectly fine kind of staying in that place and fading away into nothing. And that was fine with me. Like, and so it was, it took a long time.

• 1:07:41Speaker 01

  To get to the other side of that.

• 1:07:43Alex Cooper?

  Right. Dude, grief is like so fucking terrifying because you sometimes it's just easier to sink into it.

• 1:07:50Speaker 01

  So much easier.

• 1:07:51Alex Cooper?

  Because you're actually actively having to climb out and then there's the guilt of like, but they don't get to experience life anymore. And so it's like your head can go to really clearly, yes, dark fucking places. How did you begin to pull yourself out? And like, yes, you had music, but like.

• 1:08:08Speaker 01

  Well, it's, it's, it is though. I like, it sounds cliche. Even when I say it out loud, it sounds like made up, but the hard, I mean, one of the hardest things though was, was dealing with all of this, like music's been my solace. It's always been the thing I can turn to, listening to records or whatever that makes you feel better. And after Chris and Kato, I didn't have that anymore. Everything I listened to made it worse. Like I couldn't listen to Soundgarden anymore. Couldn't listen to the Beatles because we listened to Beatles, couldn't like, couldn't listen to our own music because I made it with Kato. Like everything, every band had a memory attached to it. Every song had an emotion that I couldn't handle.

• 1:08:52Speaker 01

  And so suddenly music was not in my life anymore. And that was the scariest thing for me because I suddenly this thing that's my identity that has gotten me through everything is no more, along with these people. So it was like, it was almost like three losses at the same time. And eventually I got to, it's time is the answer. But eventually I got to a place where I could start listening to records again, not Soundgarden. But I went, where did this start? Like I tried to, I very calculatedly went, where did I fall in love with this? Like, how do I find myself again? And so I started at the very beginning, which was the Beatles, where it's the first band I fell in love with. It's the reason I started writing songs.

• 1:09:36Speaker 01

  It's, you know, all the things started there. Listen to every Beatles record, listen to the anthology, listen to over and over and over to find joy in it again. And then moved on from that and kind of almost chronological order of the bands that I fell in love with growing up to now. Eventually ending in Soundgarden and I found a place where I could listen to it and have it. Bring me some kind of comfort again, um, but also writing the record Death by Rock and Roll. So I made, so having to get that out, that record kind of poured out of me in a way that other records have not. Um, some songs have, but not full, complete albums like that.

• 1:10:21Speaker 01

  And that record was so inspired and it wasn't for anyone and I didn't have the intention of putting it out. I didn't know if we'd record it. I didn't know any of that. Cause how are we gonna make a record without Kato? I don't know. Um, there's so many things to overcome, but the writing of that record was something that I had to do for me. And it, it's almost like I didn't write it, but I think by getting it out, it, that was the first step of me starting to be able to turn the corner.

• 1:10:48Alex Cooper?

  That's really beautiful because I think

• 1:10:52Alex Cooper?

  it's so, it's so isolating when you're going through that, like you just said, and to have to almost reintroduce yourself to something you love so much, but that now is causing you so much pain because, because of the remembering of what was connected to that is torture almost, but you also have to always remember in grief that like most of these people would never want you to leave the one thing that connected you guys. And slowly the goal is to get back to it. So you can feel them through, I'm sure the music and you can feel them when you're making it. But even the concept of making it in the beginning is so fucking hard.

• 1:11:32Speaker 01

  So hard. It seems impossible because at the end of the day, I try to say Kato's name every day or I don't even try to, I just still do. Um, because it keeps him, keeps him around, you know?

• 1:11:41Alex Cooper?

  Doing it. Yeah.

• 1:11:42Speaker 01

  And so, but he's also, he was such a big part of my life that there's no way to not talk about him. Um, and he's still such a big part of my life. And I think that that's, that's the key to loss and to, is I learned that. While that pain never goes away and that that feeling of, you know, missing them and all the things that come with with grief, the intensity does. So it's it's kind of like when it happens, it's you're sliced down the middle. You're bleeding everywhere like blood gushing. And as time passes, that wound heals and you're left with a massive scar. And that scar,

• 1:12:25Speaker 01

  you know, you're not bleeding all over the floor anymore, but now that's a part of you. And so I look at everyone I've lost is like they're a scar I carry with me every day. And I'm proud to have those scars. I'm proud that they're a part of my life and that I loved them that much to be able to feel the way I feel. You know?

• 1:12:42Alex Cooper?

  I appreciate you sharing that because I think I've lightly talked about grief on the show, but I think it's always so one, yes, subjective. But when you put it like that, I think it can just help a lot of people because I'm sure there's literally someone watching. That's like day one, starting to do the battle of like, get through it.

• 1:13:01Speaker 01

  It's brutal. And the only thing I would say is that like, it's what Death by Rock and Roll turned into is that at the end of the day, this record, the record's very hopeful. Like it starts off very dark and very bleak, but there's this kind of positive turn towards the end of it, that there is light at the end of this tunnel that seems impossible and seems never ending. And if you can just wait it out, you will get to the other side. And that's the thing that I say to anyone who's struggling with depression or loss or anything even remotely close to this kind of feeling is that it does get better. And it's the fucked up thing about that is when people say that to you when you're in it, you want to punch them in the face.

• 1:13:42Alex Cooper?

  So real. You're like, shut the fuck up. What do you know?

• 1:13:44Speaker 01

  What the fuck do you know? It gets better. Like what a cliche thing to say.

• 1:13:48Alex Cooper?

  And you're like, oh, fuck, it does.

• 1:13:49Speaker 01

  But it does. Time does.

• 1:13:51Alex Cooper?

  It does.

• 1:13:52Speaker 01

  If you can just hang on long enough to get to the other side, there is another side waiting for you.

• 1:14:13Alex Cooper?

  Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Southern New Hampshire University. Daddy gang, let's get real, okay? We like to make our own rules. Southern New Hampshire University gets it. They let you learn what you want with over 200 career-focused programs, where you want with 100% online courses, and how you want with no set class times. Basically, you get to call the shots from day one. Visit s n h u dot edu slash call her daddy to learn more. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Ross. Fall is about finding pieces you love, making them your own and creating looks and spaces just right for the season. Whether you're updating a small apartment or a spacious home, drawn to timeless neutrals, or bold seasonal touches,

• 1:14:58Alex Cooper?

  Ross makes it easy to imagine what's next and bring your fall vision to life. Ross makes fashion accessible to all with up to 20 to 60% off other retailers' prices on the brands you love. Find your nearest Ross at rossstores.com. Walk me through what you have felt with double standards when it comes to music and the music industry for you as a woman?

• 1:15:25Speaker 01

  I'll be honest, I get, it's probably an unpopular answer, but I, I tend to, I get asked a lot what it's like to be a woman in rock and roll and a woman in music and the double, you know, all the things you just said. And while yes, it exists, I kind of don't look at it that way. Like, I kind of live in my own, maybe I live in my own world, my own mental bubble, but I look at it like, music is music. Good music is good music. Gender doesn't really matter and most music's crap. Like, that's how, like, I see it as like, like, I want to compete with the best people. And so, the only thing with, not the only thing,

• 1:16:09Speaker 01

  but the thing with being a woman in the music industry is that you get compared to women in the music industry. Not that that's a bad thing, there's a lot of amazing women, but you're cutting out an entire... You know, sect of musicians and not even putting those two next to each other because of a gender thing. So, so being a, so I don't really know because I kind of just don't really think of it that way.

• 1:16:35Alex Cooper?

  But I think that's like the best way to look at it. And I think that doesn't just pertain to music, which I agree with you. And I'm going to take that as advice moving forward because I think you're right. There's so many industries that we just talk about this woman, is she as good as this woman? Or like, oh, these actors, or oh, these politicians, or oh, these, you know, hosts, or whatever it be.

• 1:16:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:58Alex Cooper?

  And most of the time, you're only comparing them to the same gender. And I agree with you. It's like so limiting.

• 1:17:04Speaker 01

  It's so limiting.

• 1:17:05Alex Cooper?

  Especially as a woman. It's like, it's also, a lot of times, it's derogatory because it's like, well, for the women.

• 1:17:11Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:17:11Alex Cooper?

  You guys are pretty good. And you're like,

• 1:17:13Speaker 01

  What does that mean?

• 1:17:14Alex Cooper?

  Like, I remember, I remember when I signed a, a deal for my podcast in the early days of my career, and everyone was like, the first like woman to blah, blah, blah. And I was like, we know, but like, the deal is like bigger than most men. So shouldn't we just be like, take out the gender?

• 1:17:29Speaker 01

  Take out the gender. Why are you focusing on that?

• 1:17:31Alex Cooper?

  Deals on podcasting, like, not like for a woman. You're like, what, what does that have to do with?

• 1:17:36Speaker 01

  Everyone knows I'm a woman. Like, you see that.

• 1:17:38Alex Cooper?

  Right, right. Yeah. So that I think is, um, I think that's great advice for people listening. It's just like, yes, you can't control the way that people are going to spin it, but you can't control how you like digest it and you own it of like, no, I'm not gonna let that affect what I'm doing.

• 1:17:55Speaker 01

  No, it doesn't affect what I'm doing at all. And I mean, I own my femininity. Like, I love being a woman most of the time, you know, except for, you know, except for that time around the month. But, uh,

• 1:18:06Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

• 1:18:07Speaker 01

  But it's, uh, it's, you just have to look at it like,

• 1:18:14Speaker 01

  Like you said, you don't let it affect what you're doing. Like, I'm assuming, like, who do you look up to? Who are your heroes?

• 1:18:21Alex Cooper?

  Some of them are women and some of them are men.

• 1:18:23Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:18:24Alex Cooper?

  It's not, yeah.

• 1:18:25Speaker 01

  You don't only have women idols, you know?

• 1:18:28Alex Cooper?

  It's a good point.

• 1:18:29Speaker 01

  So why are you looking at it like that? And at the same time, when you put the women stats in there, like, our stats are really good. Like, we have a whole bunch of number ones and, you know, breaking records and that kind of thing. So, but the way I like handle my, you know, my art and music I make, whatever, that's, that never comes into my mind at all, because why would it? I wake up, like, I wake up a woman.

• 1:18:49Alex Cooper?

  Facts. Um, okay, Taylor, this is Call Her Daddy.

• 1:18:53Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:18:54Alex Cooper?

  Let's talk about your dating life.

• 1:18:56Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:18:56Alex Cooper?

  What is it like trying to date as a musician?

• 1:19:02Speaker 01

  Ha, um, I, I don't know if it has anything to do with musician and probably just me as a person, but I think that I'm a very, very trusting person and I'm a very guarded person at the same time. Um, so anyone I let into my life in any form of a relationship, there's,

• 1:19:26Speaker 01

  there's a life bond there, like, that I'm, I'm not letting people into my life that are fleeting. It's just not, I mean, you have those people in your life, but it's, um, but I'm always looking for something that has a, has depth to it that is filling something that I need in my life. And, and that's from friends to relationships to whatever, like, it's managers, it doesn't matter. Like, they have to have a, there's a quality about that that, um,

• 1:19:56Speaker 01

  that, that is deep and very normal, I think.

• 1:20:00Alex Cooper?

  Love.

• 1:20:00Speaker 01

  Um, so there's that.

• 1:20:02Alex Cooper?

  What is a non-negotiable you look for in someone that you're dating?

• 1:20:07Speaker 01

  Uh, well, kind, funny, gotta be funny, gotta make me laugh. Um, smart and, and we have to have the same musical taste, or that's just not gonna work. You're getting out of here. That's just not gonna work at all.

• 1:20:21Alex Cooper?

  You're also like, you also have to think my music is amazing. Thank you very much.

• 1:20:25Speaker 01

  Worship the ground. I walk on.

• 1:20:28Alex Cooper?

  Just a classic.

• 1:20:29Speaker 01

  Just a tad.

• 1:20:30Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, you have some songs that you talk about unhealthy relationship dynamics. What is something that you used to put up with when you were younger that you definitely wouldn't tolerate now in romantic relationships?

• 1:20:44Speaker 01

  Using like using me. Um, I think I definitely went through a phase of dating guys that weren't interested in me for me. They were interested in what I had to give them and what I had to offer them, especially around the show like, well, if I date her, I can go to this party and meet so and so and blah, blah, blah. And they're and I'm talking about people that were in the industry at the time and stuff, but weren't necessarily as successful and using me for something other than myself. And and when you're in it, you don't see that. And when you get out of it, the anger that comes with that and the betrayal of like, I just gave you myself and you

• 1:21:28Speaker 01

  weren't interested in that at all. Like it's super fucked up feeling.

• 1:21:31Alex Cooper?

  Oh, yeah, that can lead to some fucking trust issues.

• 1:21:33Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, you know, I can, but the good is, is I can really see through that now. So.

• 1:21:39Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. And you were young and it's like.

• 1:21:41Speaker 01

  And I was young.

• 1:21:41Alex Cooper?

  That makes sense. Um, have you ever been cheated on?

• 1:21:44Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:21:45Alex Cooper?

  How did you find out?

• 1:21:47Speaker 01

  Um, I walked in on it.

• 1:21:50Alex Cooper?

  Taylor.

• 1:21:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:53Alex Cooper?

  Taylor.

• 1:21:53Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:21:54Alex Cooper?

  No, you didn't.

• 1:21:54Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, I did.

• 1:21:55Alex Cooper?

  No.

• 1:21:55Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, I did. At a party. Walked into a back room, looking for a bathroom or a drink or something, whatever the fuck I was doing. Um.

• 1:22:02Alex Cooper?

  Did they know you were at the party too?

• 1:22:05Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:22:06Alex Cooper?

  And you.

• 1:22:06Speaker 01

  I was probably coming from an event or something and then stopped by later, but oh, yeah, no, walked in on like full naked, like full on sex happening.

• 1:22:15Alex Cooper?

  Did you just be like, okay, I'm gonna walk out? Or what was your reaction?

• 1:22:19Speaker 01

  I left and I went with my best friend at the time and we went and got a tattoo.

• 1:22:24Alex Cooper?

  What is the tattoo?

• 1:22:25Speaker 01

  I have a tiny, tiny star. It's my one and only tattoo.

• 1:22:28Alex Cooper?

  How did you come up with the star? You're like, I just got cheated on?

• 1:22:31Speaker 01

  I don't know. Yeah, like let's, we got matching tattoos. That was.

• 1:22:35Alex Cooper?

  Did the person call you after? Stop.

• 1:22:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:38Alex Cooper?

  Were, did they call and apologize or they never?

• 1:22:42Speaker 01

  I'm trying to remember now how that how this all went down.

• 1:22:45Alex Cooper?

  Taylor.

• 1:22:45Speaker 01

  Oh, there was a big like, you know, fuck you match and I never fuck it lose my fucking number like can't do that shit.

• 1:22:51Alex Cooper?

  You got a cute tattoo out of it, though.

• 1:22:53Speaker 01

  I got it. I've got my one and only.

• 1:22:55Alex Cooper?

  That's your only tat?

• 1:22:55Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:22:56Alex Cooper?

  Oh, my god. Post cheating. Classic. Love that for you.

• 1:22:59Speaker 01

  The best part was it was St. Mark's Street and my friend, it was is a guy and he got one here, too. It's like twice as big as mine. Mine took ten times longer than his.

• 1:23:09Alex Cooper?

  Was it painful?

• 1:23:10Speaker 01

  It was totally it's right on the rib, but the guy doing it, I think, really just like staring at my boob because my teeny tiny star took forever. It's like it essentially it's a mole.

• 1:23:19Alex Cooper?

  You're like, babe, this is actually a dot like we've been done.

• 1:23:23Speaker 01

  It's a dot like I'm I'm I'm essentially Phoebe in Friends when she gets her mom tattooed on her and it's just the dot like that's.

• 1:23:29Alex Cooper?

  And this motherfucker's been done for an hour and you're like.

• 1:23:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:33Alex Cooper?

  Are we still going?

• 1:23:35Speaker 01

  Going? Okay.

• 1:23:36Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. Okay. Well, good to know. You're one tat. And would you get more or no?

• 1:23:39Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:23:39Alex Cooper?

  You're done.

• 1:23:40Speaker 01

  No, I'm done. Beatles didn't have tattoos. I'm good.

• 1:23:42Alex Cooper?

  Oh, I love that. That's like your compass north star. Like Beatles didn't have tattoos. Taylor won't have tattoos.

• 1:23:49Speaker 01

  I'm also over evolving. So like, I don't want to. It's hard for I too indecisive.

• 1:23:53Alex Cooper?

  I'm the same way. Like, I don't even know what I would want on my body for forever. So I'm just not going to do it.

• 1:23:57Speaker 01

  I think like I draw on myself a lot and I use those like ink box pens and the ones that last because that's fun, but then it fades.

• 1:24:04Alex Cooper?

  Okay, let's talk about your Christmas EP. I know we mentioned it earlier, but tis the fucking season. This is it's so good.

• 1:24:12Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:24:12Alex Cooper?

  I was listening to it on my way here. And first of all, I want you to know that hearing you put together the song with your six year old self, I was getting emotional.

• 1:24:24Speaker 01

  It made me emotional, like hearing it back for the first time, like you singing it's one thing, but then actually listen listening to it come through the speakers after the first take of it like.

• 1:24:33Alex Cooper?

  It's beautiful.

• 1:24:34Speaker 01

  You well up like there's something so.

• 1:24:37Alex Cooper?

  And I love how the EP, it's also like you did such a brilliant job of like, there's some slow, there's some rock there like you really gave us everything that we needed and more. The lyrics are perfect. Like, I'm so excited to be listening to this during Christmas time.

• 1:24:53Alex Cooper?

  The Grinch is also re-releasing in theaters for the twenty fifth anniversary.

• 1:24:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:59Alex Cooper?

  What does it mean to you that that movie and now full circle with this EP like this is now just becoming a part of so many people's like Christmas traditions?

• 1:25:09Speaker 01

  Well, I think that like over the years, realizing that Grinch was never gonna go away. Um, I became more and more fond of it and and seeing how much joy that it brings to people. You know, old and young and every year people discovering it and like just loving it so much. Makes me really happy to be a part of something that brings that much happiness to other people. Um, how very Cindy Lou Who of me, but it's true. Like it makes me, it makes me nostalgic and. You know, proud that I can bring smiles to people around the world every year. Um, or that I'm not me, but I'm a part of something that does.

• 1:25:50Alex Cooper?

  Have you rewatched it?

• 1:25:51Speaker 01

  Oh, I've definitely watched Grinch.

• 1:25:53Alex Cooper?

  You have?

• 1:25:53Speaker 01

  Yes. Um, of course.

• 1:25:56Alex Cooper?

  Okay, that makes me really happy.

• 1:25:56Speaker 01

  I don't watch it every year, but I definitely watch like a few scenes every year and uh, this year I want to go see it in theaters. Cause.

• 1:26:03Alex Cooper?

  Can you fucking imagine? I'm looking into camera. Can you imagine being sitting in the fucking movie theater? And you're sitting in like the fifth row, the sixth row, you turned your right, you're like.

• 1:26:15Alex Cooper?

  Taylor fucking Thompson? Wait, Cindy Lou Who? I'm dead. That would be crazy.

• 1:26:21Speaker 01

  Right?

• 1:26:22Alex Cooper?

  But you gotta just roll up though.

• 1:26:23Speaker 01

  Oh, totally.

• 1:26:23Alex Cooper?

  And have it be like a public theater.

• 1:26:25Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:26:25Alex Cooper?

  You just come by.

• 1:26:26Speaker 01

  I'm not partial. I'm not, I'm not, I'm New York. Like, I'll go, just go to the theater.

• 1:26:31Alex Cooper?

  The way that that would be just the most like healing experience. No, that's, that is really fucking cool. Um, okay, we're coming up into the new year.

• 1:26:40Speaker 01

  Yes, we are.

• 1:26:41Alex Cooper?

  What are you looking forward to in this next year of your life?

• 1:26:46Speaker 01

  Oh, my goodness. I'm looking forward to so much. Um, we are going back out on tour with ACDC. So that's gonna be amazing. Um, it's been amazing so far, but the fact that we get to continue this journey with them is incredible. Um, they're just the coolest. They're the loudest band you've ever heard in your life in the most awesome way possible. They're the coolest people. They're so kind. But their live show is a schooling in what rock and roll is. Um, and to get to watch that every night is just mind blowing. Um, so to continue that with them is very exciting for me. So I can't wait for that.

• 1:27:26Speaker 01

  And we're and tour really like the long and short of it is tour and new music and tour and new music. And the cycle continues, but it's always fun to put out new music and tour new songs because it's start of a new, you know, new era. And that's always a really fun place to be in.

• 1:27:45Alex Cooper?

  I appreciate you being so open today because I think as an interviewer, there's such a clear pattern that I'm just starting to see of like, and this is why I love my job so much as I get to sit down with people that maybe people have understood them through like a lens that just was not their personal lens. It's through different pieces of other people's art, especially if you're an actress. And I think it's beautiful to like hear from you exactly what that time was like in your life. It doesn't mean people can't still enjoy Gossip Girl. It doesn't mean people can't still go and enjoy the Grinch, but hearing how it was affecting you as a real human being, that's work. And I think sometimes people forget like that was a job for you.

• 1:28:26Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:28:26Alex Cooper?

  And so as much as we can enjoy as consumers, like your real human being that was getting paid to do these things and who the fuck enjoys their work at all times? No one. No one. So like giving some

• 1:28:39Speaker 01

  Although I take that back. I enjoy my work now, every minute of every day. Like getting to, the only thing that you don't enjoy is the actual like travel, the physical travel of tour is brutal.

• 1:28:51Alex Cooper?

  So we can always find something.

• 1:28:52Speaker 01

  But other than, but like the fact that I get to play music as a career and call it a job is insanity. And it's like, I'm so lucky. It's not playing is a pleasure. Playing is, it's just fun. That's, and it's what it should be. And I think that that's, I feel so fortunate.

• 1:29:10Alex Cooper?

  But you're also just the exact example, and I've always said this, and I know it is a privilege, but it's like if you are able to turn your purpose and your passion like into your job or your career. It is such a privilege and it's so incredible to experience it. But the way that you talk about acting verse being a musician, it's like there is no comparison. You light up, this is who you are, this is what you are. And so, yes, you were known as something, but I think it's beautiful to now let the world fully lean in and get to know you as this version of yourself, because this is your true self. And that's what we want to celebrate. It's like, let people be who the fuck they are. End of story. Goodbye.

• 1:29:50Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. Thank you so much for having me on. You're kind of like popping my podcast cherry. I'm not a bit, I think maybe I've done a couple, but I'm not like a, I don't do this a lot.

• 1:29:59Alex Cooper?

  Well, you crashed. That was amazing.

• 1:30:00Speaker 01

  I hope that was all right.

• 1:30:01Alex Cooper?

  Thank you, Taylor.

• 1:30:02Speaker 01

  I really appreciate it. You make this very comfortable and

• 1:30:05Alex Cooper?

  I'm happy you were cozy.

• 1:30:06Speaker 01

  Every way, shape or form.

• 1:30:07Alex Cooper?

  That was the goal. Thank you. Seriously, thank you for coming on.

• 1:30:24Alex Cooper?

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• 1:31:09Alex Cooper?

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