The Dangers of Hunting Cape Buffalo - A Roundup of Recent Animal Encounter Headlines Including a Really Dumb Tonia Haddix Update, the Japanese Bear Safety Drill, and More

The guys talk about a bunch of recent animal-related headlines they thought would be educational, entertaining, or otherwise worth discussing. Stay safe out there! Watch here: https://youtu.be/aP8f4m_VQkw ~~ Hims: To get simple, online access to personalized, affordable care for ED, Hair Loss, Weight Loss, and more, visit http://Hims.com/tooth Miracle Made: Upgrade your sleep with Miracle Made! Go to https://trymiracle.com/TOOTH and use the code TOOTH to claim your FREE 3 PIECE TOWEL SET and SAVE over 40% OFF Ollie Pet Food: Take the online quiz and introduce Ollie to your pet. Visit https://www.ollie.com/tooth for 60% off your first box of meals! #ToKnowThemIsToLoveThem Rocket Money: Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to http://RocketMoney.com/claw today. ~~ To advertise on the show, contact us! ~~ Tooth & Claw is brought to you by QCODE. Support the show and get access to an extensive library of exclusive episodes like this by supporting the show on Patreon or joining the Grizzly Club on Apple Podcasts. For the latest updates on the show and all things wildlife, follow us at toothandclawpod.com and social: Instagram: @ToothandClawPodcast Twitter: @ToothandClawPod Wes: @GrizKid Jeff: @jefe_larson Mike: @mikey3ds Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:13Jeff Larson?

  Hello listeners, we are Tooth and Claw Podcast. We have our wildlife biologist Wes Larson. I am his younger brother Jeff Larson and then we have Mike who is once again our editor. So shout out Mike.

• 0:28Wes Larson?

  And he's not happy about it.

• 0:30Mike Smith?

  I can't wait to stop editing again. Get back here, Bill. You're rehired.

• 0:35Jeff Larson?

  Bill, thank you for all your help.

• 0:37Wes Larson?

  Bill, it's become clear to us that if we didn't hire you, the podcast would have been over by now.

• 0:44Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, Mike would have. I don't know. I think he would. I think he would just move to another country and not tell anyone.

• 0:52Wes Larson?

  We just wouldn't ever hear from him again.

• 0:54Mike Smith?

  Back on the menu, boys. It's back on the menu.

• 0:58Wes Larson?

  Well, we love you, Mike.

• 0:59Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, hopefully like we stay at a point where like we're a successful podcast, but not like super successful because then Mike's gone. Once he gets enough equity.

• 1:10Wes Larson?

  So he has enough money. Yeah, that's like, that's like 20 grand for Mike and he's done.

• 1:15Mike Smith?

  You guys could probably buy me out at a really nice price right now.

• 1:21Wes Larson?

  Like right now?

• 1:22Mike Smith?

  Right now. Yeah, this is the moment.

• 1:24Wes Larson?

  That's kind of funny because I was, so I was like really hustling to get ready to record because I realized I had to go turn off some sprinklers and stuff. And right as I was coming into the shed, I think Jessie could pick up that I was like behind schedule and she could ask me for something in that moment. And I would say yes, because she came up and asked me if I could pay for a new horse trailer and that she would pay me back. And normally I stay out of like all horse things. And I just was like, yeah, sure, whatever. We got to record. So.

• 1:55Mike Smith?

  That's a big one.

• 1:56Wes Larson?

  She literally is going to come like slip a check in under the, that I have to sign as we're recording. Man, which is silly. Yeah.

• 2:04Mike Smith?

  Smart. Good move, Jessie.

• 2:05Jeff Larson?

  You just let her buy some pigs too, right?

• 2:08Wes Larson?

  Yeah. Which was my other, like when we got our property, I said, hey, the one animal I don't ever want to have is pigs because they smell. And I just am not a fan.

• 2:18Jeff Larson?

  But then she found some animals you'd rather not have more than pigs, right?

• 2:23Wes Larson?

  Yeah, like goats, uh, other things, but it's been.

• 2:27Mike Smith?

  Elephants.

• 2:27Wes Larson?

  We've been here now like three years and she's just gradually been chipping away at me. And finally she said, if I put them in the very far corner, can we have them? And I said, yes, but it's conditional. Like if I ever smell them, they're gone and they're meat pigs too. We're going to eat them at the end of the year. So they'll only be here a few months. Yeah.

• 2:46Mike Smith?

  You don't think you'll get too attached à la Nicolas Cage and pig?

• 2:50Wes Larson?

  I could go kill both of those pigs right now and I wouldn't feel a thing.

• 2:54Mike Smith?

  Oh geez.

• 2:55Wes Larson?

  Actually I would. I, I hate.

• 2:56Jeff Larson?

  The guy who won't kill bugs anymore.

• 3:00Wes Larson?

  I've been thinking about that a lot, actually, like why that ended up being my resolution.

• 3:05Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 3:05Wes Larson?

  And I just think it's like, there's been so much death in the world that I just can't handle anymore. Me and Jeff went fishing recently and we caught a lot of cutthroat. And at the end of it, I was kind of like, I don't know if I can fish anymore even. Cause I just, and not that we were killing them, but just like hurting them even. I kind of am, I'm just, I'm pretty sensitive to that stuff right now. So anyway. Sorry, that took a serious turn.

• 3:30Jeff Larson?

  No, it sounds like you meat pigs are turning into just pig pigs.

• 3:35Wes Larson?

  Well, I'm not, I'm not doing any of that. Jesse's going to take them to someone that's going to butcher them. And anyway, I prefer store bought bacon, which is kind of silly, but I do.

• 3:44Jeff Larson?

  How often do you have?

• 3:46Wes Larson?

  Pretty often, Jeff.

• 3:47Jeff Larson?

  Bacon.

• 3:48Wes Larson?

  Pretty gosh darn often.

• 3:51Jeff Larson?

  I don't think I've ever had non-store bought bacon.

• 3:54Mike Smith?

  I don't think I have either.

• 3:55Wes Larson?

  We buy, we buy pigs meat from like farmers, local farmers.

• 4:00Mike Smith?

  But like not at a store. They have like a trench coat and a back alley they're dealing out of.

• 4:04Wes Larson?

  Yeah. You meet them in like parking lots. Last time we met them in like the grocery store parking lot. And got pigs, like pig meat from their cooler. Yeah. So it's not at the store.

• 4:14Mike Smith?

  My.

• 4:14Wes Larson?

  Anywho.

• 4:15Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 4:16Jeff Larson?

  You can't leave dude. You're like our best friend too. If you just left, that would suck.

• 4:21Mike Smith?

  Am I? Are we just like holding on to past emotions?

• 4:24Wes Larson?

  No, I'm serious.

• 4:25Mike Smith?

  We're professional. We've been professional. We're like business partners at this point, you know? When's the last time you were like, Mike, let's go, let's go play some volleyball, you know? Never happens.

• 4:36Wes Larson?

  We go to movies. We do all, we're going on a trip. Yeah.

• 4:40Mike Smith?

  A business trip.

• 4:41Jeff Larson?

  For sure. Say no.

• 4:43Mike Smith?

  I know.

• 4:43Jeff Larson?

  Why? That's how I know I'm your friend is.

• 4:48Mike Smith?

  That's true.

• 4:48Jeff Larson?

  I don't ask you those things.

• 4:50Mike Smith?

  You're the best friend I think I may ever have had because you pretty quickly stopped inviting me to do things with you.

• 4:56Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 4:57Mike Smith?

  Exactly.

• 4:58Jeff Larson?

  Sneaking into that water park in winter, which was a good one.

• 5:02Wes Larson?

  I was telling Jesse the other day that if I could have anyone move to like Missoula, it would be the two of you and Brent. Out of all my friends. So.

• 5:12Jeff Larson?

  Make a little like dude perfect compound out there.

• 5:15Wes Larson?

  Yeah. Raise pigs, buy horse trailers.

• 5:17Jeff Larson?

  Kill them on live.

• 5:19Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 5:19Wes Larson?

  Stream.

• 5:20Mike Smith?

  And not even feel bad at all. Not even feel, not even not feel bad, but feel nothing is what Wes said.

• 5:25Wes Larson?

  We'll tell people, if people don't sign up for Patreon, we'll kill pigs and broadcast it.

• 5:31Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 5:32Wes Larson?

  Yeah. I take that back. I, I can't kill anything without feeling something. So yeah, the pigs would, I'd probably be like in a dark hole for a while.

• 5:40Jeff Larson?

  Well, I'm excited to meet them.

• 5:42Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 5:42Jeff Larson?

  I'm going to try to sit on them like I always do, Kevin.

• 5:45Wes Larson?

  That's fine. You can do whatever you want with these pigs. I'm going to go first. It's our, it's our, uh, kind of bi-monthly news episode. I don't know. It's about every six weeks. We do one of these.

• 5:55Jeff Larson?

  There's no rules.

• 5:56Wes Larson?

  No, we don't have rules. It's about every four or five episodes on average and I'm excited. We had some good stories this summer and my first one's actually quite sad depending on your perspective, or for some people, they're getting a lot of joy out of this one, which we're going to talk about a little bit. This is about a trophy hunter that was killed by an African Cape buffalo. This guy's name was Asher Watkins. He was a real estate magnet from Texas, a multimillionaire that owned properties in Texas, Colorado and Arkansas.

• 6:27Jeff Larson?

  Magnet?

• 6:27Wes Larson?

  And he recent, magnate. He recently met his end at the horns of an African Cape buffalo on August 3rd in Limpopo, South Africa.

• 6:36Mike Smith?

  Sheesh. He died?

• 6:38Wes Larson?

  Yeah. He died.

• 6:39Mike Smith?

  Dang.

• 6:39Wes Larson?

  So there, yeah. There's been a lot of social media attention about this because he was a trophy hunter. He had photos with himself and a lot of dead critters like mountain lions. There's one with him and tons of dead ducks, a huge deer. And often when someone like this gets killed while hunting, there are going to be a lot of posts congratulating the buffalo or the lion or whatever got the guy or the woman. And sometimes, in my opinion, I do think that feels a little gross to me. But I'm going to talk about the story and then we can talk about that reaction and we can all weigh in on it after the story. All right, so first of all, I just want to say, South Africa is really interesting when it comes to where their wildlife is located

• 7:24Wes Larson?

  and how everything is arranged. And that's the same for these big game hunts. So what this very likely was, was like a private game ranch, where it could be very big, I don't know how big it was. But essentially, this game ranch will have like, it'll be all fenced in, but really big. They invite people to either come on safari or to hunt. And with hunters, they'll often even like have pictures of the animal they want, that they'll send them and the hunter can like, say, I want to kill that one. And then when they show up, they'll take them and they will find that specific animal in that game reserve and allow the hunter to kill it. So it's kind of, it's very like boutique. And you're, it's almost like you're picking out your trophy before you even shoot it.

• 8:09Wes Larson?

  I'm not exactly sure that's how this place operates, but I'm pretty confident that's what it was. So he essentially, this guy Watkins knew he was going to get a big buffalo. Like he knew that he would come home with this trophy. It's likely he even picked the one out. And he knew that finding it was probably going to be somewhat easy. But as we know about Cape buffalo, they're not always easy to kill. This is a pretty robust animal. They are sometimes considered the most dangerous animals in Africa. And I don't necessarily disagree with that, but we've talked about this before. I do think we should define the difference between deadly and dangerous. There are definitely animals in Africa that are more deadly. Crocodiles kill more people, snakes kill more people, elephants kill more people.

• 8:55Wes Larson?

  But Dangerous, like if you're gonna have one of those animals cornered, Cape buffalo might be the worst one in Africa to like corner and be in a bad situation with. They're incredibly defensive animals.

• 9:08Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 9:09Jeff Larson?

  Cause lions are always trying to jump on their backs and stuff. They gotta be tough.

• 9:13Wes Larson?

  They gotta be tough. Exactly.

• 9:15Mike Smith?

  And hippos are too smart to be backed into a corner in the first place.

• 9:20Wes Larson?

  Yeah. Hippos are another one. I mean, hippos are ones that are very defensive slash aggressive animals. But I do think when it comes to like, if you're in a cage match with one of these animals, a Cape buffalo's probably top of the list of the one you don't want to be facing down.

• 9:35Mike Smith?

  What would be the hardest animal to back into a corner, do you think? Like a bird, probably?

• 9:40Wes Larson?

  A jellyfish, maybe? No, that'd be really easy, huh?

• 9:44Mike Smith?

  On land, it'd be tough because you'd have to like put them there and you don't want to touch those guys.

• 9:48Wes Larson?

  A swarm of bees.

• 9:49Jeff Larson?

  Maybe the way to put it would be like if you round a corner and an animal is like right around the corner from you, this is like one of the ones you'd least want to see.

• 10:01Wes Larson?

  Right. Cause there's a lot of them that will just run away and this one likely charge you. So.

• 10:06Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 10:07Mike Smith?

  What if the Cape buffalo painted itself into the corner? Is it still gonna get like all pissed and dangerous?

• 10:13Wes Larson?

  Like that Goitay video? Someone I used to know.

• 10:17Mike Smith?

  Gotye?

• 10:18Wes Larson?

  Gotye, whatever.

• 10:21Wes Larson?

  I don't know how to say it either. I think you're right.

• 10:23Jeff Larson?

  They think it'd do it just so it has a good defense. Like I was cornered. What do you want me to do?

• 10:29Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 10:30Jeff Larson?

  But secretly I wanted to.

• 10:31Wes Larson?

  You meant like paint the floor.

• 10:33Mike Smith?

  Especially if the paint's red. Yeah.

• 10:34Wes Larson?

  I get what you're saying. That's what painted into a corner means. I was thinking of like it camouflaging itself with the paint.

• 10:42Mike Smith?

  Oh, that's a good move too. It'd be extra dangerous because you wouldn't be able to see it very well.

• 10:46Wes Larson?

  Well, I don't think this one did it. Um, but it is, hunting them is a dangerous thing to do and cornering them. And apparently that's what happened on August 3rd. Watkins was with the hunter from the company that he had contracted. So they had a professional hunter along with him. And then a tracker, all three of these guys were stalking this buffalo on foot. When it surprised them and immediately gored and killed Watkins on the spot. The buffalo was shot by this professional hunter, but the damage was done. Watkins was dead. The internet really had a field day with this, and this is what I think we should talk about a little bit. For me, I don't, I don't love trophy hunting. I think when people kill wild animals for food, I think that's kind of the best case scenario if you're gonna eat meat.

• 11:30Wes Larson?

  Because the animal gets to live a good life out in the wild, it gets killed humanely, you get your meat, you have a connection to your food. So for me, hunting for food, I see is a good thing. I don't like killing things, so I have a hard time doing it, but I don't think it's bad. But I do have issue with trophy hunting. I think if you're killing something just to put it on your wall, you should take some time to really think about like what that means, you know? For sure.

• 11:56Jeff Larson?

  I think it's kinda nice to just recently how much like the public perspective of that has changed.

• 12:04Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 12:04Jeff Larson?

  People didn't really understand a lot about trophy hunting 20 years ago or 30 years ago, so they just see like someone had all these cool, dangerous looking animals and it's like, oh, this guy's like a real man.

• 12:17Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 12:17Jeff Larson?

  Now that we understand it better, it's like, okay, you're kind of a tool.

• 12:21Wes Larson?

  Yeah, it's like, I would much rather see a beautiful photo that you took of that animal on your wall than the animal itself.

• 12:28Jeff Larson?

  Hmm, you're the real man.

• 12:30Wes Larson?

  That's not what I'm saying. But the other thing about trophy hunting, and this is like, especially with these large African animals and the big five, is that a big part of this for these people is this element of danger, you know?

• 12:44Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, that's why like it's hard for me to feel too bad for him.

• 12:48Wes Larson?

  And it's like, he wanted to kill a Cape buffalo because he knows their reputation. He knows that this is like a badass animal that he wants on his wall. And if they didn't kill like the occasional hunter, then it wouldn't be that like element of danger wouldn't be there anymore. So I do think this is like kind of the risk these guys are taking and it's part of the deal. So I don't, personally, I don't really feel bad for this guy. I feel really, really bad for his family, though. Like, they don't have any control over this. They just lost someone that they deeply love and care about. And he has a 16 year old daughter and losing someone that abruptly and then having the whole world laugh at it has to be really, really hard, you know?

• 13:31Wes Larson?

  And I hope she's finding some good outlets and the rest of his family is finding some good outlets for their grief and for their healing. So yeah, I don't, I don't necessarily feel bad for Watkins, but I do feel terrible for his family.

• 13:41Mike Smith?

  I also, and I don't mean to play devil's advocate really in any meaningful way for the man himself, but it's not, this is all within the boundaries of legality. Like this is, isn't like a black market thing that's happening. And are these hunts?

• 13:56Wes Larson?

  He wasn't doing anything wrong.

• 13:57Mike Smith?

  Are they being employed as a method of keeping populations in check or anything? Like I, again, that's like gray area and I don't want to make any excuses for him, but like this guy wasn't technically doing anything wrong per se. Yeah. In like heavy quotations.

• 14:13Wes Larson?

  We, at some point, we're going to do a whole episode on like, on hunters that got smoked by trophy animals and like, talk about the, the kind of ethics of trophy hunting. Cause there are really good arguments on both sides for like its use. I will say that it's estimated that hunting brings about $169 million to the South African economy each year, but the safari industry brings several billion dollars to their economy each year. So there's a big argument for like, these animals all have more value alive, but also with like Cape buffalo, there's plenty for both. Like you can have hunters, you can have the safari industry. For me, it's, it's a tricky issue.

• 14:58Wes Larson?

  It just really is, but I think, yeah, there's some arguments there.

• 15:02Jeff Larson?

  Yeah. I think like morally, he's fine. Like he didn't do anything like morally corrupt. He didn't do anything that like, makes it feel like he deserved to be killed.

• 15:13Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 15:13Jeff Larson?

  But what I would say is like, these trophy hunters do love to brag about killing dangerous animals. And like they think it's cool and their community thinks it's cool. So like, there is a dark humor in that like, oh, you wanted to go kill a dangerous animal and you got killed.

• 15:31Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 15:31Jeff Larson?

  And like, especially where our weapons are just so advanced and like, they just

• 15:36Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 15:36Jeff Larson?

  Pull up in a truck and step out and shoot these with a gun that like, I don't know.

• 15:41Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 15:42Mike Smith?

  That's what confuses me about this story too is, I know these animals are really fast and really powerful, but there's got to be some kind of dereliction of duty on someone's part if they're close enough or in a compromise. They have guns, like long range weaponry. It seems like they shouldn't really ever be in danger of getting gored like that, right?

• 16:01Wes Larson?

  I think for these, I think for a lot of these people, they don't want to just pull up and take a shot from the back of a jeep. Like, they don't want to get there and 10 minutes later, they see their animal and they shoot it and it's dead. That doesn't have any thrill for them. So I think, again, like, part of the appeal of these kind of hunts is like, we are going to stalk Cape buffalo on foot.

• 16:19Jeff Larson?

  This is dangerous.

• 16:20Wes Larson?

  Cause that's the story that they can bring home. Like, I stalked it on foot. I shot it at 20 yards. It turned and charged. Like, they want a story to tell their family, you know?

• 16:30Mike Smith?

  I'm still, I'm still learning about this whole thing then, cause I, I did think it was kind of like, you're basically shooting a caged animal from your car, but.

• 16:38Wes Larson?

  Those exist too, but I think most of them want to like, act like they're, you know, this big tough hunter.

• 16:44Jeff Larson?

  The parks to like, probably sell it that way. Like, we're gonna be like, hunting wild, uh, Cape buffalo. And we're gonna be in the bush, you know?

• 16:53Wes Larson?

  Yeah. I will say, as far as, for me, as far as this debate, just a teaser for when we do a whole episode on it, I don't really view trophy hunting as so much as a conservation issue because in most places where it's allowed, it is very well managed. Like, you're not taking that many animals from the population. I view as more of an animal rights issue. Like, is it, is it morally ethical to kill something just so you can put it on your wall? You know, and that's what I think people need to ask themselves. For me, that, the answer is like a resounding, no, that's not ethical. But I think that's up to a lot of people's interpretation.

• 17:29Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, I agree with that.

• 17:31Mike Smith?

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• 19:10Jeff Larson?

  All right. Well, speaking of something that's not very ethical, Tanya from Chimp Crazy, who we covered. Tanya Haddix. Yeah. So, I mean, most listeners probably listened to at least some of our Chimp Crazy stuff, but maybe some of you didn't hear any of that. So, a real quick recap. But HBO partnered with us. We watched the four-part series called Chimp Crazy, and Tanya Haddix was like the main character in it. But basically, it's just a really well-made documentary that goes into very eccentric people

• 19:51Jeff Larson?

  who own chimps in the United States and how obsessed with chimpanzees they are. And that these people just make their lives revolve around chimps and it goes bad more often than they probably, I wouldn't say more often than not, but more often than like they would admit.

• 20:11Wes Larson?

  They're willing to accept. I would say more often than not. Yeah, I think it goes bad.

• 20:15Jeff Larson?

  There's kind of a lot of chimp owners.

• 20:18Wes Larson?

  Yeah, and I think all of them end up having like some problems.

• 20:21Jeff Larson?

  Maybe you're right. Yeah. Yeah. So she was at like this big warehouse that just had like, I don't know, it's like 30, she was a worker and they had like 30 chimps and PETA worked really hard and like got a hidden camera in there and eventually is like, these chimps don't have a good enough lifestyle in there and all the chimps were taken away, or so you thought. But Tanya had taken her favorite chimp, a celebrity chimp named Tonia and put it in her basement at her house in Missouri. And she, PETA kind of like thought, wait, there's one chimp missing. Then she like

• 20:59Wes Larson?

  Said it's dead.

• 21:00Jeff Larson?

  brought in cremated ashes from another dead chimpanzee and like was lying and like cried in court. And then just like, right when she's done crying, she's like telling the camera crew, like, come look at this. And you go downstairs and just see Tonia in this cage. So yeah, we covered all that. But anyways, Tanya just got found having another chimpanzee in her basement, which is absolutely insane. She's also on the hook for $225,000 that she owed PETA in legal fees. And she hasn't like paid any of that. So then

• 21:39Wes Larson?

  The crazy thing is, and, and this is like, obviously spoilers for Chimp Crazy, but at the end. Like they took Tonia away from her and and Peta was like, if you just say you will never have any exotics again, we won't charge you any of this money. And she was like, no, absolutely not. I'm not going to be bullied by you guys. And like, which seemed like a very fair deal. And so she could have like, if Tanya had just never done this again, she would have been fine. And probably could have just like coasted on this newfound fame from the show, but she just couldn't do it.

• 22:14Jeff Larson?

  But even at the end, she's like saying like, I'm gonna start my own petting zoo. I'm gonna get like capuchin monkeys and I might even get another chimpanzee.

• 22:22Wes Larson?

  She said an orangutan too.

• 22:24Mike Smith?

  She wanted to move out onto an island surrounded by chimps. Like that was her dream at the end of the show.

• 22:30Jeff Larson?

  And so anyways, yeah, not doesn't really think things out very well.

• 22:36Wes Larson?

  No.

• 22:36Jeff Larson?

  And part of like Peta winning in the chimp crazy too, like authorities had, they had authority to go into her house unannounced. So like getting another chimpanzee was just absolutely insane. And I guess when they got there.

• 22:51Wes Larson?

  It's not an easy thing to hide.

• 22:54Jeff Larson?

  What I read, there's, there's not a ton of information out yet. But that they got there and the cage was empty, but there was fresh dung in the cage.

• 23:07Wes Larson?

  She's like, oh, that's mine. Don't worry about that. That's fine.

• 23:10Jeff Larson?

  Yeah. She's like, okay, like you have to claim that to your poop or it's obvious you have a chimpanzee.

• 23:17Wes Larson?

  There's just empty Happy Meals everywhere and like Reese's whipped cream cans.

• 23:22Jeff Larson?

  And then, yeah, I saw they.

• 23:23Mike Smith?

  That'd be easy to pass off as my own.

• 23:25Jeff Larson?

  Pretty easily found the chimpanzee. They think it might be Tonia's like half brother. And put it in that same sanctuary that Tonia loves so much.

• 23:36Wes Larson?

  Good for them. Good for Tonia.

• 23:39Wes Larson?

  Alan Cumming can go visit him there.

• 23:41Jeff Larson?

  But yeah, I mean, I think we should all three just kind of share like it's been a year since, you know, the show came out and we partnered with them and like HBO and the director who did Tiger King as well. Like they did a really great job on it. I think, and think it's fair to be like, okay, she's an idiot and she wanted attention.

• 24:05Wes Larson?

  I still feel the same way I did. I think, I think she's really misguided and a criminal and not good to these animals. But I also feel kind of sorry for her. I think she just really doesn't have a place to like direct her need to care for.

• 24:19Mike Smith?

  Yeah, she did. She had a child. She was neglectful and abusive basically towards her child. I associate Tanya Haddix and Chimp Crazy with maybe the least happy I've ever been in my entire life. I think there are redeeming qualities about all humans. Some of us have some good in us. I believe all of us have some good in us, but yeah, she did not bring any of that to bear and it seems like she's continuing to refuse to do so. And I don't have really any sympathy for her at all because she had plenty of outlets and plenty of chances to change her ways. She got way more than a fair deal from anyone that she encountered along this whole journey. It seems like especially from PETA who, whatever your thoughts are about them, like that's fine.

• 25:00Mike Smith?

  Uh, that's a whole separate issue, but uh, yeah, Tanya, I think is genuinely a, a bad person. I really feel that way.

• 25:07Wes Larson?

  I think that's fair. Yeah.

• 25:08Jeff Larson?

  The whole thing definitely like made me feel better about PETA. Uh,

• 25:13Wes Larson?

  Yeah, I would agree with that. At least they're legal team.

• 25:16Jeff Larson?

  Yeah. I think it's a lot like Joe's exotic, actually where it's like, they act like they love these animals and they probably do to some extent, but then like what they really love is attention.

• 25:27Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 25:28Jeff Larson?

  And the attention they get from owning like a exotic animal and that's just kind of like, get out of here with that.

• 25:36Wes Larson?

  I think when I say I feel bad for her, it's not that I was like, oh, like she was so, I agree with you, Mike. She had humans to love. She had legal pets that she could have put that, that into. I think there's something about chimpanzees with some of these people where it's like so close to a human, but one that they can, they think they can like fully control. And that's not a good quality. I'm not saying that's a good quality, but that's kind of what I see in her. This is a child that I can have that isn't ever gonna do anything I don't want it to do. And that's bad. Like, that is bad. But I do, in a way, feel sorry for her that that's like how her brain works.

• 26:15Mike Smith?

  Sure.

• 26:15Jeff Larson?

  I mean, but she really viewed.

• 26:17Mike Smith?

  Totally fair.

• 26:18Jeff Larson?

  It as a child, she probably shouldn't have been like so happy about it cranking off to her.

• 26:23Wes Larson?

  For sure. Like, she there, like, Tanya has some demons to work through and.

• 26:30Mike Smith?

  It's so sad. It's sad to see something that is professed to be shown and given love like Tonia. And then you see footage of it just having a mental breakdown, like almost having a seizure in its little cage down in the basement.

• 26:44Wes Larson?

  Or looking at the photos of other chimps and stuff.

• 26:46Mike Smith?

  Tanya, if you really, really had genuine love for this animal, you would see that what you're doing is just straight up abusive and neglectful, you know?

• 26:55Jeff Larson?

  Crazy one to me was in the show when she like went to the guy that gave her the dead chimpanzee to cremate. And, uh, he had like a, like a few chimpanzees. And as soon as they walked in there, they were all just going insane, like.

• 27:13Wes Larson?

  Losing their minds.

• 27:14Jeff Larson?

  Shaking everything. And it's just like, oh, my God.

• 27:18Wes Larson?

  Yeah. And they're like, oh, it's excited. And it's like, no, they are stressed out and angry. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, I'm glad.

• 27:26Jeff Larson?

  They were excited. It's like they shouldn't be that excited.

• 27:29Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 27:29Jeff Larson?

  Like you just walked in the room. Like, that's insane if that's how they always react. Yeah.

• 27:34Mike Smith?

  I don't know. We had a family dog who would pee all over the place whenever we gave her a hot dog. And it wasn't even like a good hot dog. It was just like a cold one out of the fridge. This is not like gourmet hot dog.

• 27:46Wes Larson?

  Yeah. That's such a funny trigger.

• 27:51Mike Smith?

  She's dead now. That's on us. Too many cold hot dogs. She's also like 20 years old.

• 27:57Wes Larson?

  Dehydrated?

• 28:00Wes Larson?

  Just couldn't keep water in your body?

• 28:02Mike Smith?

  I'm gonna be, I'm not, I'm not mad anymore. I got it out of my system. Thanks, Tanya. Thanks for giving me a little outlet there. So I've got a story that, so just a bit of a peek behind the curtains. Wes gave me these stories to read. Very kind of you, Wes. I've been busy, okay?

• 28:19Wes Larson?

  Well, Jeff, and Jeff helped with it too. Jeff looked up a bunch of the news episodes, so. Yeah. Thanks, Jeff. And our intern, and our intern Bryn sent me those.

• 28:29Mike Smith?

  Oh my gosh. Bryn. Thank you, Bryn.

• 28:34Mike Smith?

  Yeah, we'll figure out exactly where Jeff sits on this, Aid, but.

• 28:40Mike Smith?

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• 29:25Mike Smith?

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• 30:10Mike Smith?

  Again, that's trymiracle.com/tooth to treat yourself.

• 30:14Mike Smith?

  So this story comes out of India and I want to start off with a little, you know, I'm a big statistics guy. Yeah, I'm always, you know, keeping track of numbers and stuff.

• 30:23Wes Larson?

  You're like that beautiful mind meme.

• 30:25Mike Smith?

  At right now statistically. He's at, I think, a second felony charge. I think he's up to two now. For some kind of real estate fraud or something. I'm not sure.

• 30:35Wes Larson?

  Do you not like Otani?

• 30:37Mike Smith?

  No, well.

• 30:37Wes Larson?

  I know you're a Padres fan.

• 30:38Mike Smith?

  I'm a Padres guy.

• 30:39Wes Larson?

  You gotta kind of like Otani, right?

• 30:41Mike Smith?

  It's a, it's a real deep in my heart. I have a lot of love for Otani, but man, he just kills us.

• 30:47Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 30:48Mike Smith?

  Anyway, so this comes out of India and according to a study, this is published in elifsciences.org. So in India, there's been recorded over a million snake bite deaths in just the past two decades. Think about a million.

• 31:00Wes Larson?

  It's so wild.

• 31:01Mike Smith?

  Over a million, not a million exactly. That would have been really insane if that was the case.

• 31:06Wes Larson?

  They average like 50,000 a year. So that, you know, that adds up.

• 31:09Mike Smith?

  Recently though, there's a little baby who refused to be a part of that statistic. So this is a story about one-year-old Govinda. He was playing at home in a small town of Batia near the Indo-Nepal border. Kind of where probably we were, were up in northern India.

• 31:26Wes Larson?

  Not far from there. Yeah.

• 31:27Mike Smith?

  I'll just say that an unusual little playmate decided to join in on the fun with a little Govinda. So his grandma later recounted that, Govinda's grandma, not in the snakes, later recounted that when we saw the snake in the child's hand, everyone rushed toward him, but in the meantime, he already bit the snake, killing it on the spot. So like, it was just a brief moment of like, holy cow, there's a cobra on our one-year-old's hands. And then immediately realizing he's probably had like snake parts and I don't know, snakes bleed probably.

• 32:01Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 32:01Mike Smith?

  Probably had like some snake blood all over his mouth.

• 32:04Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 32:04Mike Smith?

  A real crazy scene. And this wasn't just any old snake. So like I was saying, it was, it was actually an Indian cobra, which are venomous, correct?

• 32:12Wes Larson?

  Extremely venomous. Yeah.

• 32:14Mike Smith?

  Extremely neurotoxic. Yeah. One of the big four species, in fact, responsible for the most snake bites in India. Um, and unfortunately it had struck first. So Govinda wasn't just.

• 32:25Wes Larson?

  Oh no.

• 32:26Mike Smith?

  It wasn't an unprovoked bite. The snake got him first. It was like a Hammurabi's code situation here. Eye for an eye. Scenario. So after biting the cobra to death, Govinda fainted and was rushed to a primary healthcare facility for initial treatment. And fortunately, the whatever occurred during this bite, not a whole lot of venom was deposited. That's not the right word.

• 32:47Wes Larson?

  Injected.

• 32:48Mike Smith?

  Injected. Yeah. So he fortunately made it through the ordeal. He's still being surveyed and cared for at this facility administered to under the supervision of doctors. But a really crazy story about a little one year old. And this is just while I was doing a little bit more supplementary research for this story. I actually saw a story. I remembered a story my sister in law sent to me about another little baby who bit a snake in retaliation. Back in 2022, there was a two year old girl in Turkey who was bit by a snake, probably not venomous, is what the articles that I read told me. So not, not as serious as

• 33:29Mike Smith?

  Govinda's bite, but she did do it first. Still a trailblazer in my opinion, you know?

• 33:34Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 33:34Jeff Larson?

  I'm impressed. Like they can just kill it.

• 33:37Wes Larson?

  They can get a hard enough bite?

• 33:38Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 33:39Wes Larson?

  Yeah, I know.

• 33:40Jeff Larson?

  Like their baby teeth, they probably have like six teeth and they're just like one bite.

• 33:46Wes Larson?

  Munch in a snake's head.

• 33:48Mike Smith?

  Would you babies start getting their teeth? Probably before a year old, right? I don't know.

• 33:52Wes Larson?

  Did you read the whole article? Is Govinda actually a mongoose?

• 33:55Jeff Larson?

  Because women, when women are nursing their babies, once the babies start teething, they're like, ah, my nipple hurts.

• 34:02Wes Larson?

  That's true. Maybe, yeah, it'd be funny if at the end of the article, they were like, oh, edit.

• 34:08Mike Smith?

  By the way.

• 34:08Wes Larson?

  Govinda's actually the name of the family's pet mongoose.

• 34:13Mike Smith?

  Right.

• 34:13Wes Larson?

  Or dog. Yeah.

• 34:14Mike Smith?

  No, that's not the case.

• 34:15Wes Larson?

  Well, I'm glad he's okay.

• 34:17Mike Smith?

  Yeah, me too.

• 34:18Wes Larson?

  He or she? Is it a she? He? Okay.

• 34:21Jeff Larson?

  So still no comment at all from the snake's grandparents.

• 34:26Mike Smith?

  Let me check real quick.

• 34:29Wes Larson?

  Is all they had to say. That's, that's a snake that if you were to say, oh, we're doing a story about a toddler or a baby that got bit by an Indian Cobra, spectacled Cobra, I would say, oh, so we're, you know, we're going to be talking about a dead baby.

• 34:43Mike Smith?

  Toast.

• 34:44Wes Larson?

  And so it's pretty, yeah, toast, a toasted baby.

• 34:49Wes Larson?

  But I'm happy that that wasn't the case. It sucks the snake had to die, but also I'd much rather the snake die than little Govinda. All right. Well, I got another one. There's been a couple of mountain lion attacks in the news. One was in Washington on July 20th. A mother, a father and their four-year-old daughter were hiking in Olympic National Park when a mountain lion jumped from the brush and grabbed the little girl on its jaws. She began screaming and the father immediately rushed in and pulled his daughter away from the cat and the cougar ran off and disappeared back into the forest. I couldn't find this family's name. I think they decided to remain anonymous, which is kind of a cool move because if I save my little four-year-old daughter from a mountain lion, I'm going to be like, hey, you got my name, right? My name's Wes Larson.

• 35:35Wes Larson?

  Make sure you put my name down.

• 35:37Mike Smith?

  Spell it right.

• 35:38Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 35:38Mike Smith?

  L A R S O N, O N.

• 35:41Wes Larson?

  I have a podcast. Another family heard the screams of the girl. They arrived on the scene just after this mountain lion had left. She was taken to the hospital. Her injuries were treated and the article I read said she was in satisfactory condition, which I guess is good.

• 35:59Mike Smith?

  It's open to interpretation a little bit.

• 36:01Jeff Larson?

  I wouldn't say good. I'd say satisfactory.

• 36:03Wes Larson?

  Yeah, that's, it's like if you are hooking up with someone and you roll over and you're like, how was it? And they're like satisfactory. You'd feel.

• 36:11Jeff Larson?

  I'll take that.

• 36:11Wes Larson?

  You'd think about that for a while.

• 36:14Mike Smith?

  When you're taking an exit survey, satisfactory is like the middle option.

• 36:17Wes Larson?

  Right, right. Wasn't.

• 36:19Mike Smith?

  Good enough.

• 36:20Wes Larson?

  Wasn't great, wasn't terrible. Yeah. I think for medical care, you would hope for better than satisfactory. So I hope she's getting better than satisfactory. All right. The cougar was collared. It was so it was easily found by national park personnel. They did kill it and they issued a statement saying there are no current threats to the public, which I don't think is a statement they can say in a national park. I think that's one that maybe should have been workshopped a little. Like if you kill one cougar, you can't say, okay, you're all good now. No threats whatsoever. Like, I don't know. I, I think you can say that one's been taken care of, but sure.

• 36:56Mike Smith?

  They don't have grizzly bears in Olympia, right?

• 36:59Wes Larson?

  No, in Olympic National Park, they don't, but they have.

• 37:02Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 37:02Wes Larson?

  They have black bears. They do have mountain lions there. You can fall. You can get struck by lightning. You can drown. Like there are threats to going into the great outdoors. That's like part of what makes it fun. So, I don't know. I am being a little nitpicky here, but uh.

• 37:17Mike Smith?

  You can't kill a cliff.

• 37:18Wes Larson?

  They still have some threats. Yeah.

• 37:20Mike Smith?

  You can't just take care of a cliff.

• 37:22Wes Larson?

  Blow it up.

• 37:23Mike Smith?

  Uh, it's just even more dangerous. It's kind of like.

• 37:26Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 37:26Mike Smith?

  Obi-Wan, when he's struck down, he'll just become more powerful in death.

• 37:30Wes Larson?

  I will say what the dad did is how, this is how you should respond to an aggressive cougar. Like rush it, pull away whoever's being attacked, like be as dominant and as intimidating as possible. In this case, it did work and it was enough to discourage this mountain lion. Have either of you ever driven on the PCH in Malibu, Pacific Coast Highway?

• 37:52Mike Smith?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 37:53Wes Larson?

  What, how would you describe that drive, Mike?

• 37:55Mike Smith?

  Pretty perfect.

• 37:57Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 37:57Mike Smith?

  Nigh on, just like along the shoreline of California. It's just amazing.

• 38:01Wes Larson?

  Yeah, like beautiful. I know a lot of those homes got built or burnt in the, and some of them got burnt in the recent fires, but like, pre-fire at least, when I drove that road, those were the kind of homes where I was like, this is the absolute kind of dream, you know, just like a big home overlooking the ocean on a beautiful little stretch of highway. It's gorgeous. It's the kind of place that when you drive through, you think nothing bad could ever happen in a place like this. But you'd be mistaken because a few days ago, on August 10th, an 11-year-old girl was chased and bitten by a mountain lion outside her home on the Pacific Coast Highway in Malibu. And then the lion also chased her mother and her sibling.

• 38:41Jeff Larson?

  Oh, wow.

• 38:42Wes Larson?

  This, this girl had been doing some chores near their chicken coop. When the lion pounced on her and bit her right arm, leg and lower back. She started screaming and her mom and sibling ran out and the cougar started chasing them. One of them actually had a stun gun. And the sound of the stun gun was apparently enough to scare the mountain lion away. And it

• 39:01Jeff Larson?

  They just had a stun gun?

• 39:02Wes Larson?

  Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, maybe they heard the scream and they grabbed it.

• 39:06Mike Smith?

  What do stun guns sound like?

• 39:08Wes Larson?

  Like

• 39:10Mike Smith?

  Kind of like a taser?

• 39:11Wes Larson?

  Kind of like, yeah, it's, well, taser shoots the hooks into you. And then you trigger it. A stun gun's the one that you actually like hit against the person. But people often call them tasers.

• 39:21Mike Smith?

  Okay.

• 39:22Wes Larson?

  But it has the two little metal prongs with the little electricity that goes. But that's the difference between those two tasers. You shoot stun guns. You push.

• 39:29Mike Smith?

  Gotcha.

• 39:30Wes Larson?

  Anyway, it ran away. It hid. They called emergency personnel.

• 39:33Jeff Larson?

  Backwards. Cause like a gun, you think of shooting.

• 39:37Wes Larson?

  You're right. But unfortunately, that's, that's what it is. The Department of Fish and Wildlife officers found the lion on the property. They did dispatch it. Um, the girl was treated for minor injuries and I believe she's still at the hospital. I will say in this same article, they brought up some other recent kind of animal encounters in the area. And it said that a six year old had recently been drug off by a coyote that his mom intervened and saved his life. And it just kind of made me think it's pretty crazy that we've, that there's only been one recorded death from coyotes. Because I feel like every time we do a news episode and we do coyotes be wilding. There's like a kid that's being dragged off that a parent intervenes and saves. And it's just pretty wild that that hasn't happened more, you know?

• 40:23Jeff Larson?

  They're getting there though.

• 40:24Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 40:24Jeff Larson?

  Then like Seattle area, there's a bunch of photos that went viral of coyotes just like on roofs of houses. So they're, yeah, they're figuring stuff out, I think.

• 40:36Mike Smith?

  Yeah, it's just like a social media trend, like playing game.

• 40:41Jeff Larson?

  You want, I, I got, I got, I'm gonna do two different stories because they're both short. Wes, who's John Hayden?

• 40:48Wes Larson?

  John Hayden?

• 40:49Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 40:49Wes Larson?

  I don't know.

• 40:50Jeff Larson?

  Oh, he's a star hockey player on the Seattle Kraken NHL team.

• 40:56Wes Larson?

  Yeah, that's right.

• 40:57Jeff Larson?

  But he did a provo- promotional video in Alaska. And they go out there and they're fly fishing out in Katmai National Park. Mike, do you know what I'm gonna talk about here? No, I haven't heard this. Really? No. So they go out there to do like a promotional video. I think they're trying to get like Alaskans into the Seattle Kraken because that's kind of like their closest. Yeah, they got a lot of Alaska pole, you know? And like, they get their mascot who, his name is Bowie and he's like a blue troll.

• 41:32Wes Larson?

  Yeah, it kind of looks like a mascot.

• 41:35Jeff Larson?

  Fishing waders with like the hockey player and a couple other people. And like, as soon as they get in the river and start fishing, this huge grizzly bear comes out of the trees. And like, starts really acting more aggressive than most bears do in that area. Because that's by like Brook Falls, that's like, they get a lot of fish in that area. And what has Wes has said, they tend to be a little bit less aggressive. But this bear starts splashing water at him, doing bluff charges. And the whole team of people have to like, they, they turn and start kind of running. And there's an amazing video and photos of Bowie, the mascot, like kind of lagging behind.

• 42:21Jeff Larson?

  And this grizzly bear just chasing him in a full mascot outfit.

• 42:26Wes Larson?

  Wow.

• 42:27Jeff Larson?

  He's just like running away from it and.

• 42:30Wes Larson?

  I, I will just say really quickly, like watching the video, this bear's heart wasn't in it. Like it wasn't trying to get him. But it was like running in their direction. I don't blame them for being nervous, but it never looked to me like it was actually like charging or or serious about making contact.

• 42:46Jeff Larson?

  I wondered too, like, because the guides, the guides weren't too worried. Like, I think they fish a lot in that area and like,

• 42:54Wes Larson?

  They run out too.

• 42:56Jeff Larson?

  Like, the bears know what people look like. They don't really mess with people. But I just think like adding someone in a full troll costume adds another variable of unpredictability to like the entire scenario.

• 43:12Wes Larson?

  Pretty confused and it was maybe a little like, wait, I think I want this thing gone. Yeah.

• 43:18Jeff Larson?

  I think if like aliens land in Katmai, there's a good chance bears will be like messing with them a bit at least.

• 43:27Wes Larson?

  Maybe that's that would be our best bet of like aliens being like, nope, we're not doing anything here. We're out of here. These guys are mean.

• 43:35Jeff Larson?

  Mike, do me a favor. Just Google Bowie. So B U O Y, bear, real quick.

• 43:42Wes Larson?

  I will say, and maybe I'm being a little like pessimistic here. I feel like a Kraken.

• 43:47Mike Smith?

  What?

• 43:50Jeff Larson?

  It's pretty great, right?

• 43:51Mike Smith?

  That's not a Kraken is my first thought.

• 43:53Jeff Larson?

  No, he's a troll.

• 43:54Wes Larson?

  Yeah, they should have a Kraken. I feel like they need to have like a Kraken could be such a good costume.

• 44:00Mike Smith?

  It's a great, yeah, it's a cool mascot.

• 44:02Wes Larson?

  It's pretty funny, though. It's cool. Tooth and Claws brought to you by Ollie. We can be kind of picky about the sponsors that we allow on our show and one that I'm extra picky about is dog food. I wouldn't read an ad for any old dog food that I don't believe in, and that's why I'm really excited to tell you guys about Ollie. We have fully switched our dog over to Ollie, and that's because we love that they deliver clean, fresh nutrition in five really great flavors that'll work for even the pickiest eaters. Ollie is made in US kitchens with the highest quality, human-grade ingredients and contains no fillers, no preservatives, just real food, which means you're gonna have a healthier pup. They're gonna have more energy, shinier coats, better poops, and just more excitement when you go to feed them too. And they have really great recipes at Ollie.

• 44:46Wes Larson?

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• 45:31Wes Larson?

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• 45:56Jeff Larson?

  And then I have another one, just because I was on Backpacker, who just did Bear Month with us.

• 46:03Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 46:04Jeff Larson?

  So, yeah, shout out Backpacker. But, yes, in middle Tennessee's Grundy County, there was a hiker, and on August 8th, he, so he was bitten by a timber rattlesnake, and reportedly, he saw the snake and just like decided to pick it up, and then it bit him on the hand. Rescuers came, they got, like, he got a call out, rescuers came, and by the time they got there, he'd already died.

• 46:33Wes Larson?

  Wow.

• 46:34Jeff Larson?

  And they like tried to do CPR, and he wasn't able to come back from it.

• 46:37Wes Larson?

  That's crazy.

• 46:38Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 46:39Wes Larson?

  Huh.

• 46:40Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 46:41Wes Larson?

  Don't pick him up.

• 46:42Jeff Larson?

  Just kinda, yeah.

• 46:43Wes Larson?

  That's, the other thing too, with rattlesnakes, we've talked about them a lot, and how they typically don't kill people, but where most of them have hemotoxic venom and it affects your blood system and stuff, if you have maybe an underlying heart disease, or blood disease, or something that you don't know about, and then you introduce rattlesnake venom into there, that can often like trigger something too. So, that's, I would, I would be curious if that's what happened here, because that's pretty crazy that this guy would die so quickly. That's really sad.

• 47:12Jeff Larson?

  Here's a question, Wes.

• 47:13Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 47:14Jeff Larson?

  You have to wait like three hours for help, and you get to choose your, your hand getting bitten by a grizzly bear or a timber rattlesnake. What would you choose?

• 47:25Wes Larson?

  A grizzly bear.

• 47:26Jeff Larson?

  Okay.

• 47:27Wes Larson?

  Without a doubt.

• 47:28Mike Smith?

  Like it's just gonna chomp once and then wander off?

• 47:31Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 47:31Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 47:32Jeff Larson?

  I feel like you have more risk of permanent damage from a grizzly bear, but more risk of death from a rattlesnake.

• 47:39Wes Larson?

  I think I disagree with that.

• 47:39Jeff Larson?

  Like the ligaments and stuff getting torn?

• 47:42Wes Larson?

  Yeah, I think rattlesnakes, you might lose fingers, you might, yeah, I don't know. Yeah.

• 47:47Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 47:48Wes Larson?

  I'd much rather be a grizzly bear.

• 47:50Mike Smith?

  Oh, is that it? You're done? Sorry, I'm still a little shook from Bowie, if I'm being honest. I don't, I didn't, wasn't paying attention to that last one.

• 47:56Jeff Larson?

  I mean, I have, I have like three rapid fire ones, but I'll just do it once the cycle's once more.

• 48:04Mike Smith?

  Speaking of people in costumes, we think, we're pretty sure that's what's going on in this story that I've got for us, so um, uh, new, the best anime of the season just dropped, it seems. Some footage out of Japan, uh, I think from three weeks ago surfaced. And, well, we'll start here. So, there's been kind of a spate of bear attacks happening in central Japan. And Japan at large has had its problems with bear encounters historically, but-

• 48:32Wes Larson?

  Especially Asiatic black bears.

• 48:34Mike Smith?

  Uh, so, there's been three attacks, it seems to me from my research, that really spurred on this. I guess we'll call it like a, an activity, a drill that took place. So, a five foot bear was wandering around a neighborhood and attacked a seventy something year old man's head and neck. And then another bear, not too far off from there, attacked an eighty one year old man's head and neck. So, I don't know what they've got against these old-

• 49:00Jeff Larson?

  Heads and necks.

• 49:01Mike Smith?

  If you're a Japanese guy with an old head and neck, then watch out.

• 49:05Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, it's like, these guys weren't in World War II if that's what they think. Like, that's still-

• 49:10Mike Smith?

  The bears?

• 49:11Jeff Larson?

  Not old enough.

• 49:12Mike Smith?

  Either.

• 49:12Jeff Larson?

  Like, if they're trying to get the World War II survivors still.

• 49:16Mike Smith?

  Dude, that's like Vietnam maybe even, but they, I don't think they were involved in that one. Good for you, Japan, staying out of that mess, if you did. Uh, okay. Anyway, more on a more serious note, a 52-year-old newspaper delivery man was mauled to death, and that's really what pushed public consciousness in the direction that something needs to be done here. So, in response to these encounters, Japanese police and local hunters in Niko Tochigi Prefecture, which again is central Japan, like 100 kilometers north of Tokyo, they've been practicing their response to potential bear attacks in a simulated drill. I probably should just show the video, right?

• 49:53Wes Larson?

  Yeah, I think so.

• 49:53Mike Smith?

  I'll just pull the video. It's pretty important.

• 49:59Wes Larson?

  It's a really good bear costume.

• 50:01Jeff Larson?

  I like how they got the white chest part of it.

• 50:06Mike Smith?

  This is my favorite part. He does like a little stutter step to get away from it. He's like, oh.

• 50:19Jeff Larson?

  I like when they yell, they yell at the bear and it just lays down face down.

• 50:24Mike Smith?

  So, there's four cops with riot shields. One's got a megaphone yelling at the bear. Now one's poking it in the butt with some kind of control prod.

• 50:33Wes Larson?

  And it's not a real bear. It's a guy. It's just kind of like bear pajamas with a plastic bear head. Yeah.

• 50:40Mike Smith?

  And now he's talking to the bear again through the megaphone. I wish I spoke Japanese. I don't.

• 50:45Wes Larson?

  I like, I think all three of us are pretty on board with like, we're kind of in the same, the same realm when it comes to like gun control issues and stuff in the US. But it is kind of crazy when you see countries where there's like no guns, how they like the things they come up with to try and deal with something like this, which is pretty wild.

• 51:04Mike Smith?

  Yeah. We did, I did a subscriber episode a while ago where some manufacturer created a bunch of robo-wolves. Their, their eyes glow red and they make a big like howling sound and stuff, and that's a bear deterrent. So they're coming up with-

• 51:18Jeff Larson?

  In Japan as well.

• 51:19Mike Smith?

  In Japan, yeah. So, it's pretty admirable, honestly, that they're doing whatever they can to make this a non-lethal encounter with these bears before things get bad.

• 51:29Jeff Larson?

  I think in that video, they kill that bear in the-

• 51:33Wes Larson?

  They have guns.

• 51:34Mike Smith?

  I thought it was like a leap dart or something.

• 51:36Wes Larson?

  Yeah, or like gas or something.

• 51:38Jeff Larson?

  When it lays face down, they just had shot it and then they're poking it to make sure it's alive.

• 51:44Mike Smith?

  Okay, maybe you're right.

• 51:46Jeff Larson?

  I think the cops can have access to guns and like bear.

• 51:50Mike Smith?

  Uh, anyway, I think when I was doing that episode on bear encounters in Japan, I was kind of surprised at how often it's an issue for people living, especially in the northern like regions, Hokkaido, the Northern Island and stuff especially has a lot of bear encounters. So.

• 52:05Wes Larson?

  Grizzlies up there. Yeah.

• 52:07Mike Smith?

  Yeah, the brown bears. It's a, are they, are they grizzlies? Is that accurate to call them grizzlies?

• 52:11Wes Larson?

  Yeah. I mean, grizzly is just our nickname for them. Okay. Yeah.

• 52:14Mike Smith?

  Yeah, it's just, it's weird to think that they're in even metropolitan areas, bears are getting in, causing all kinds of problems over there. Lots of encounters and lots of more deaths than I would have expected to come out of Japan and bears in any given year. Forget the exact statistics, but.

• 52:30Wes Larson?

  No, they have, they have a big problem with it there and most of them are from Asiatic black bears, but there are some, yeah, some brown bear deaths there too. So it's, it's pretty interesting.

• 52:39Mike Smith?

  Uh, that's, that's really, the video is going to really do a lot of the heavy lifting for that one. So please, if you haven't tuned in, uh, you'll find that footage all over the place on the internet.

• 52:49Jeff Larson?

  Uh, I have cracking episode or story. It's more about the video as well as than the story.

• 52:55Wes Larson?

  Good videos. All right. I have one more quick bear story. It's very quick. There's a pair of e-bikers near Creston Valley Bridge, Columbia, that surprised a pair of grizzly bears. Um, and, and generally when there's two bears together like this, they're either going to be mating or it's sub-adults that have recently, their moms recently kicked them off. And sometimes those siblings will hang out for a bit before they disperse. I think this was probably sub-adults, but the husband was attacked by one of these bears. The wife had bear spray. She used it. She got the bears to leave them alone. This wasn't a defend, it was a defensive attack. They surprised these bears and, and got mauled. So the bears won't be killed. The man went to the hospital with some serious injuries though.

• 53:39Wes Larson?

  And it's just like a quick excuse to talk about, again, like there are some higher risk activities in bear country, especially grizzly bear country. And those are generally like fast moving activities. So if you're riding bikes, trail running, uh, something like that. You do put yourself at a slightly higher risk because you may surprise a bear. And like the fact that you're moving so fast, it won't have time to really decide that you're not a threat. And there's a higher chance that it will actually interact with you. So just keep that in mind if you're in grizzly bear country. All right, I'm done. That's it for my stories.

• 54:14Mike Smith?

  Jeff.

• 54:15Jeff Larson?

  So in British Columbia on August 4th, an osprey was like carrying a fish and reportedly maybe got exhausted from the heat. It was a really hot day and just dropped the fish on some telephone lines and it, the fish caused those to spark. And it created a landscape fire that like burned six kilometers.

• 54:40Wes Larson?

  Wow.

• 54:41Mike Smith?

  So you've given that to the osprey or the fish?

• 54:45Wes Larson?

  Yeah, I don't know. You gotta give it to the fish.

• 54:48Jeff Larson?

  I don't know.

• 54:49Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 54:49Jeff Larson?

  I kinda wanna give it to the osprey.

• 54:51Mike Smith?

  Was the fish alive when it hit the power lines or was it probably already dead by then?

• 54:56Wes Larson?

  Probably dead.

• 54:57Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 54:58Wes Larson?

  We had an osprey drop like a 30 inch trout on our lawn the other day and Paulie found it.

• 55:03Jeff Larson?

  That's crazy. The West always adds a bunch of inches to a trout though.

• 55:07Wes Larson?

  No, this thing was huge.

• 55:11Jeff Larson?

  Two sailors were rescued in Spain after killer whales targeted their yacht in an organized attack.

• 55:17Wes Larson?

  Still got shooters out there.

• 55:19Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, in this them boats, uh, category this year. And I guess that the Strait of Gibraltar under Spain is now dubbed Orca Alley, which is kinda cool.

• 55:31Mike Smith?

  Yeah, I like that.

• 55:32Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 55:32Jeff Larson?

  And then one I just wanted to throw out there and see how you guys react.

• 55:36Mike Smith?

  Gibraltar has enough stuff named after it already. The rock, the whatever else.

• 55:42Jeff Larson?

  A Maryland man.

• 55:43Mike Smith?

  Of Gibraltar. Who knows?

• 55:45Wes Larson?

  Maryland.

• 55:45Jeff Larson?

  Maryland, so I'm just gonna read this. A Maryland man charged after telling his friend he had a woman for him, but it was really him dressed as a woman.

• 55:56Wes Larson?

  Interesting, interesting inclusion.

• 55:58Mike Smith?

  That's a gaffically trick.

• 56:01Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 56:01Jeff Larson?

  So you invited his friend over to get like, probably make love with a woman, but then he was dressed up as a woman as a trap to like, maybe assault his, the person he.

• 56:13Mike Smith?

  I wonder how far the got before it was discovered. Was it like just on site? They're like, mm, come on, John.

• 56:21Wes Larson?

  Yeah. He's like, where's your friend?

• 56:23Mike Smith?

  I see that.

• 56:24Jeff Larson?

  Oh, he's, he just left, but I'm here.

• 56:27Wes Larson?

  Uh, I hope that they just went for it. Like this was finally the cover they needed to both express.

• 56:33Mike Smith?

  Yeah, it'd be messed up if the guy like went through with it just to like have the moment and then outed the guy, you know?

• 56:40Jeff Larson?

  Like, wait, that was it. That wasn't a woman afterward.

• 56:45Mike Smith?

  Right.

• 56:48Wes Larson?

  All right. Well, we're obviously out of animal stories, so let's get to our categories. The first one is.

• 56:56Mike Smith?

  I think we should change the entire purview of our show after hearing that story.

• 56:59Wes Larson?

  Just whatever, whatever story you read in the news.

• 57:02Mike Smith?

  No, just about people cross dressing really is what I'm interested in though.

• 57:05Jeff Larson?

  Listen, I throw in a curve ball every once in a while.

• 57:08Wes Larson?

  It's fine. It's fine. All right. Uh, your favorite pop cul- and this is in honor of Tanya. Your favorite pop, pop culture character that just couldn't get out of their own way. You know, they've got some self-destructive behavior. They just can't stop doing.

• 57:23Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, I can, I can go first. I'm gonna list off a bunch afterwards too.

• 57:29Wes Larson?

  All right.

• 57:30Jeff Larson?

  It was real hard. There's a bunch of ones I really wanted to say here, but I ended up on Ja Morant being my favorite.

• 57:38Wes Larson?

  Just can't stop shooting things.

• 57:41Jeff Larson?

  He got like a small little fine for like flashing a pistol in a TikTok or whatever. And the NBA is like, just don't do that again. Like you're going to be the face of our league. LeBron's are going to retire soon. We need you.

• 57:55Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 57:55Jeff Larson?

  And then like, what, two or three weeks later, just post another video with like a smaller gun and just like waving it around.

• 58:07Jeff Larson?

  It's like a year suspension. And now there's like all these stories of him like aiming guns at like opposing teams buses, but maybe he's just pointing lasers at it. All of his celebrations is just guns. And he's like so far away from being the face of the league now. And it's like, dude. You just had to.

• 58:27Wes Larson?

  It makes me think of that Green Goblin, that Green Goblin meme, you know? The Green Goblin's telling Spider-Man to do stuff and he like can't get it out of his head. It just makes me think that's his Green Goblin, like just shooting guns or pointing guns. It's so funny. Uh, I picked Adam Sandler's character from Uncut Gems, Howard Ratner. Just where he just like can't stop gambling and making big bets. I just, I think that's my favorite movie about like kind of addiction and it's just a fun movie, but also super tense. I just really love it.

• 59:03Jeff Larson?

  Spoiler, big spoiler here, but I just saw a video that I really liked about it. Where he like, because I thought it was like such a frustrating ending. Cause it's like he had finally like broke through.

• 59:17Wes Larson?

  Yeah, but he died at his happiest moment of his life.

• 59:20Jeff Larson?

  Shot, but then it's like, yeah, he would have messed that up had he kept living.

• 59:24Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 59:24Jeff Larson?

  And he would have like gone back to where he was. So like, that's the perfect outcome for him.

• 59:29Wes Larson?

  Yeah. His like pure moment of happiness. Yeah.

• 59:34Jeff Larson?

  By John Moran.

• 59:36Wes Larson?

  That might be my perfect ending if I have to keep editing any more of these episodes.

• 59:43Wes Larson?

  I shouldn't joke about that, even if I do feel like it's true.

• 59:47Mike Smith?

  I'm gonna go with Bubbles in The Wire. That one's a sad one. I like the, I mean, The Wire is probably my favorite show. And he tries so hard and he does so good. And it's sometimes like not even his fault. And I'm not trying to be like, I don't know, I'm getting too weird about being an enabler for a fictional character in a show, but like, sometimes it just wasn't his fault. Like he was neglected a little bit sometimes. Yeah. No, I think he was perfectly acted. Just an amazing performance. It was great.

• 1:00:13Jeff Larson?

  I have a couple I want to throw out real quick.

• 1:00:15Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:16Jeff Larson?

  From One Piece, uh, Frankie, the cyborg, made himself a whole new body just based off of cola. Like putting cola into himself. It's like,

• 1:00:27Mike Smith?

  Cola powered.

• 1:00:27Jeff Larson?

  Like you are too obsessed with cola. Like you could have just used water. You could have used so many easier things.

• 1:00:35Mike Smith?

  And you know, he's addicted to it because after the time skip, he comes back and he's just like, a million times more dependent on cola for like literally every part of his body now.

• 1:00:46Jeff Larson?

  Tripling down.

• 1:00:48Jeff Larson?

  Zion Williamson with porn stars and soda.

• 1:00:54Jeff Larson?

  Jokic, uh, he, his horses, he just can't get them out of his mind.

• 1:01:00Mike Smith?

  Dude, did you see that footage? Jokic's horse won a race and he like broke down crying in the middle of the track and it's like, when you won the NBA championship, you didn't, you didn't show any emotion at all. You just wanted to leave and probably go.

• 1:01:16Jeff Larson?

  Dude, basketball is pretty cool. Like you can be excited about that too.

• 1:01:21Mike Smith?

  It was like a local horse race that like no one knew or cared about. There was like eight people in attendance and he was just having a breakdown. It's incredible.

• 1:01:30Jeff Larson?

  His ex teammate, Michael Porter Jr., just for like unprompted, just said he's addicted to women, which was kind of funny. McGregor, Conor McGregor and cocaine. And then last but not least Voldemort and high schools. Just like, you could have taken over the world, dude. Just leave that high school. Like you tried like eight times.

• 1:01:55Mike Smith?

  I like that. Maybe there's something deeper there that's being said. This episode's brought to you by Rocket Money. A lot of people aren't aware just how much they're spending each month and it's easy to point the finger at subscriptions and that is a problem for a lot of us, myself included. I actually just discovered that I signed up our business account here at Tooth and Claw with a subscription that's been going on for a couple of months. So, well, hopefully Wes and Jeff don't find out about that, but it's not just that. We're throwing money in all kinds of crazy directions. And one thing that I've been abusing just a little bit too much recently is getting food delivered. Now, I'm a lazy person. I hate going outside, but one thing that's gotten me out my door is Rocket Money showing me just how much money I've been spending on delivery food.

• 1:02:38Mike Smith?

  It was way more than I thought and I had to put a stop to it and I'm really grateful for the Rocket Money app because without it, I would have continued going about my day to day life, not knowing that I had something of a problem on my hands. So I'm sure there are a lot of people out there who can do a little bit more to reduce their monthly costs and improve their finances. And I personally highly. Really recommend Rocket Money. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending and helps lower your bills so that you can grow your savings. Rocket Money's 5 million members have saved a total of $500 million in canceled subscriptions with members saving up to $740 a year when they use all of the app's premium features. So cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket

• 1:03:23Mike Smith?

  Money. Go to rocketmoney.com/claw today. That's rocketmoney.com/claw. Rocketmoney.com/claw. All right, well, related to that question, then, what's something that you know is bad for you, but you have a really hard time giving up? It has to be something that you've at least like tried to stop at some point. Yeah, I can't go to sleep anymore without, not just noise, but I have to have the TV on and it's really bad because there's like flashing imagery and it wakes me up multiple times every night, but I've tried really hard to sleep in like complete silence and like it's kind of funny. When we travel together and we're like sleeping in the same rooms, hotel rooms and stuff, I have

• 1:04:08Mike Smith?

  to have like my earbuds in and like some kind of something, just stimulus and it's not good for you. It can't be good to have just like interrupted sleep all night long, but I can't sleep otherwise. I don't know. It's a real catch 22.

• 1:04:20Jeff Larson?

  I mean, I only have one really good answer for this.

• 1:04:24Mike Smith?

  What is it? Oxy's?

• 1:04:26Jeff Larson?

  Just, just cranking.

• 1:04:28Mike Smith?

  Oh, that's not that bad for you.

• 1:04:31Jeff Larson?

  But like.

• 1:04:32Mike Smith?

  Good for your prostate, right?

• 1:04:33Jeff Larson?

  Growing up is just frowned upon in my environment I was raised in and

• 1:04:39Mike Smith?

  Sure.

• 1:04:40Jeff Larson?

  I would stop for a little bit, but one wet dream and I'm back to the races, you know?

• 1:04:46Mike Smith?

  Do you still cry afterwards? Is that the answer you want to use?

• 1:04:49Jeff Larson?

  Yeah. Do you want me to give another one?

• 1:04:52Wes Larson?

  If you want to, if you want to leave that, you can.

• 1:04:55Jeff Larson?

  If you think that one will stay, I'll leave it. I'm happy.

• 1:04:58Wes Larson?

  Speaker truth. Alright.

• 1:05:01Mike Smith?

  This is totally on you if you want that to be like, I have no problem with that.

• 1:05:06Jeff Larson?

  I'll say another one, but I think I'm fine with it.

• 1:05:09Wes Larson?

  A provisional.

• 1:05:10Jeff Larson?

  Um, I can't help but speed. Like I just end up speeding when I'm driving.

• 1:05:15Mike Smith?

  How many tickets do you have?

• 1:05:17Jeff Larson?

  Like three or four.

• 1:05:18Mike Smith?

  Okay, so you're not like, you're not in danger of having your license taken away or anything?

• 1:05:23Jeff Larson?

  I used to get warnings a lot and now I always get tickets.

• 1:05:26Wes Larson?

  Oh, uh oh. Mine is McDonald's. I just like, they're not a good corp-

• 1:05:33Jeff Larson?

  You were saying you don't really like it anymore.

• 1:05:35Wes Larson?

  Yeah, I don't like it as much as I used to. I used to like, McDonald's burger used to be my favorite burger. Like, bar none, of any burger. Yeah.

• 1:05:44Mike Smith?

  I think they're good.

• 1:05:46Jeff Larson?

  What, Mike?

• 1:05:47Wes Larson?

  Well, they've been like, their food's been like scientifically created to be good.

• 1:05:52Mike Smith?

  No, I genuinely think their hamburgers are legitimately good.

• 1:05:56Wes Larson?

  Like if you, if you like say they're not good, sometimes I kind of narrow my eyes. Because they taste good, it's just that they're bad for you. And it's an evil corporation and, but like, I do have a soft spot for McDonald's. I just, I don't know, it's something that I've tried to give up, but it's the, by far the closest food to my house too. And so it's just like, sometimes I'm really lazy and I'm just like, you know what? I'm gonna go get the five dollar meal and just like enjoy a tasty burger and some nuggets.

• 1:06:24Jeff Larson?

  That way like they clearly had ketchup on their fingers when they put their bun on and stuff?

• 1:06:30Wes Larson?

  Yeah, it just adds to it for me. I like, I want it all smushed and just flat. Yeah.

• 1:06:36Mike Smith?

  Me too. I like a compact, almost like welded together with the cheese.

• 1:06:41Wes Larson?

  Yeah, if I got like a poofy one like they show in their commercials, I'd be like, this is what I ordered. I ordered like a McDonald's burger.

• 1:06:48Mike Smith?

  No, that's a good one because like addicts, they're not always just like stoked on heroin. They're not always like, oh man, that's, it's like so delicious and awesome. They're probably hate it at times. Like I wish I didn't love it so much. And I like discuss them a little bit, but at the same time, like I need some of those microplastics from that burger.

• 1:07:08Jeff Larson?

  Wes's funny McDonald's thing to me was when he watched The Founder, which is like a movie all about how evil McDonald's is and he's just like, it made me really want McDonald's.

• 1:07:20Wes Larson?

  So bad. I went, I stopped at like the first McDonald's on the way home from the theater. Yeah. All right. Um, next one is the most memorable celebrity owned exotic animal. Another one in honor of Tanya.

• 1:07:34Jeff Larson?

  Let's just list a few, I think.

• 1:07:36Wes Larson?

  Yeah, okay. I, I only, I only thought of one, so I'm just gonna do one.

• 1:07:41Mike Smith?

  Start us off.

• 1:07:42Wes Larson?

  Mine that really stuck with me was when Paris Hilton had a Kinkajew for some reason, which is like a little tree climbing marsupial from South America. They're really cute, but like no one knew what a Kinkajew was or had like ever heard of them. And suddenly everyone was like, oh, she has a Kinkajew. What a cool pet. And it was really bad. It just made me think like, this is a pet that she's gonna have for like a couple of weeks and then she's gonna pawn off on someone else or like a member of her team is gonna like get rid of. And meanwhile, there's gonna be thousands of people that are now trying to get Kinkajews for pets. So it just seemed really irresponsible. I think all exotic animal ownership in this context is really irresponsible.

• 1:08:25Wes Larson?

  But that one especially for me was memorable because it felt really gross.

• 1:08:30Mike Smith?

  Yeah, Kinkajew is dangerously close to a couple of slurs somehow in my brain.

• 1:08:34Wes Larson?

  Yeah, I know.

• 1:08:36Mike Smith?

  It's not quite there on any of them.

• 1:08:37Wes Larson?

  It's a word that's like fun to say and be able to get away with saying.

• 1:08:41Jeff Larson?

  It sounds like a Pokemon to me.

• 1:08:43Mike Smith?

  That's true too.

• 1:08:44Wes Larson?

  Yeah, they kinda look like a Pokemon.

• 1:08:46Mike Smith?

  Pikachu.

• 1:08:47Jeff Larson?

  That's probably it. Pikachu. Yeah. I think you solved that, Mitch.

• 1:08:51Wes Larson?

  There you go.

• 1:08:53Mike Smith?

  Uh, Mike Tyson's Tigers, of course, that's the big one.

• 1:08:56Jeff Larson?

  That's the one. Yeah, Mike Tyson's Tigers. Michael Jackson had a chimpanzee, right? I know you had monkeys.

• 1:09:02Wes Larson?

  Giraffe. He had a bunch of stuff. Yeah, but Bubbles the chimpanzee.

• 1:09:06Jeff Larson?

  Bieber had a monkey that was kinda got a lot of press.

• 1:09:11Mike Smith?

  Gilbert Arenas had a whole shark tank. Do you remember that story from back when he was playing? It was like a whole thing.

• 1:09:17Jeff Larson?

  Wait, he had a, did he have sharks?

• 1:09:19Mike Smith?

  Yeah, yeah, like several sharks in the tank.

• 1:09:22Jeff Larson?

  Well, Dwight Howard had a ton of snakes, but I don't know if any of them were problematic.

• 1:09:27Wes Larson?

  I just, I, I think while we talk about this, like, I would be remiss if I didn't say, like, don't own exotic animals. Especially if you have a public presence and like, you're going to influence other people to get them because you may have the money and the resources to take proper care of that animal, but a lot of the people you're influencing don't. So, yeah, it's something I've even had to kind of repent of in the past before I knew better. Like I had, I raised some raccoons and re-released them back into the wild and stuff. And now I wouldn't do it because I know that, you know, it creates some problems.

• 1:09:59Mike Smith?

  You're a formed man.

• 1:10:00Wes Larson?

  Yeah. All right. Uh, next category is, I want an overrated and an underrated. Something overrated, something underrated.

• 1:10:09Jeff Larson?

  Oh, surprise that's with this one?

• 1:10:12Wes Larson?

  No, I sent it.

• 1:10:12Mike Smith?

  No, you sent this one to us.

• 1:10:14Jeff Larson?

  What?

• 1:10:15Mike Smith?

  We can start while you think, Jeff.

• 1:10:16Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:17Mike Smith?

  Um, I'm gonna go, an overrated skill is people that are able to whistle loudly. I've never been in a scenario where I appreciate that skill, especially at like sporting events. You always get sat right next to the guy who can whistle really loud and he does it the whole game. It's like, who are, what, what are you trying to communicate here? You and, you know?

• 1:10:36Wes Larson?

  I hate that too.

• 1:10:37Jeff Larson?

  But like when taxis were a thing, that'd be like so useful.

• 1:10:40Mike Smith?

  That would be pretty clutch. I'm not, I'm not thinking about taxis, I guess. And I guess at soccer, international soccer matches, whistling is kind of like their version of booing. So maybe I'm wrong on this one, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna stick to it for now.

• 1:10:53Wes Larson?

  I agree. It's always like ear splitting and just is very, I hate it. And then I hate, like, don't get me started on this because I really don't enjoy whistling either when people just constantly whistle to themselves. It's kind of, that for me is very annoying.

• 1:11:09Mike Smith?

  Even when people are good at it, like they can carry a tune and they have like a little drill.

• 1:11:12Wes Larson?

  Especially when they're good at it.

• 1:11:14Mike Smith?

  I know.

• 1:11:15Wes Larson?

  You know? I, yeah.

• 1:11:16Mike Smith?

  Andy Griffith.

• 1:11:17Wes Larson?

  Do you want me to go, Jeff, while you think?

• 1:11:19Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, you go ahead.

• 1:11:20Wes Larson?

  Okay. Something I think is really overrated, because it kind of feels like I'm in one, is our saunas. I'm not a sauna person. I know there's been a big kind of jump in like little saunas that you can put in your yard or whatever. And I'm always like, I'm always just like, wanna get out as soon as I'm in there. I don't find them relaxing or fun to just like sweat and be really hot. I just don't get it. Does that go for like everything in, what about steam rooms? I, I like steam rooms more, but I still don't love them. I don't really even like hot tubs that much though. I just don't really like forcing myself to be really hot unless it's really cold outside, then I enjoy a hot tub.

• 1:11:59Wes Larson?

  So that's my overrated. My underrated is seeing movies by yourself. I don't know if we've done that one before. But man, I do that a lot here in Montana and I like going to movies with other people too. I think there's like something to be said for both. But I really like going to movies by myself. I like not having to like talk about the movie after I come out. I like just being able to like fully immerse myself without any kind of distraction in a movie.

• 1:12:27Mike Smith?

  Is that just like, you don't want to share your immediate thoughts, but you will wanna talk about it later? Because sometimes we talk about movies and it's fun.

• 1:12:36Wes Larson?

  I, I enjoy it with you guys. I've heard you say that before. I enjoy it with you guys. Like if I watch a movie with a group of people, I'm excited to hear what they thought of it. See, I guess what I don't like is when you go to a movie with like ten people or something. And then you come out and everyone's standing in a circle and just kind of waiting for your turn to talk about the movie. It feels like, like a forced conference after something. And I kinda just wanna marinate a little bit. Like I kinda just wanna take a few hours to think about it. With you guys, I'm so close with both of you that I enjoy just to like give my immediate thoughts and hear your immediate thoughts. But sometimes when there's a lot of people, I just don't, I really don't like it. I just like, I like going to movies by myself. I think it's great.

• 1:13:21Mike Smith?

  Yeah. Oh, I'll go underrated as well. If you're still thinking Jeff. So my underrated is, oh man, I have two and I couldn't choose between. I don't know. Should we flip a coin? I'm just gonna go with both. Velcro shoes underrated. Those things are sweet dude. So easy. They're a little style out of fashion, but like all it's gonna take is just one really cool. We just need Timothy to throw on some Velcro shoes and we're back in business, baby. Let's go. Timmy, I know you're listening.

• 1:13:48Wes Larson?

  Timmy C, our guy.

• 1:13:50Mike Smith?

  And then my other one is stove top pan seared steaks. It's just a lot easier than getting the whole rigamarole going of the grill outside and the cleanup and all that stuff. Just throw a pan, some olive oil, do a little bit of salt and pepper, you're ready to go.

• 1:14:03Wes Larson?

  Yeah, I agree. You don't need to do a barbecue.

• 1:14:05Jeff Larson?

  Okay, I don't know how to phrase this as overrated or underrated, but something that's like really bothering me, so maybe overrated, I guess.

• 1:14:13Wes Larson?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:14:14Jeff Larson?

  I think it's like kinda overrated and underrated is dressing rooms. Like if I'm at a store and I'm like going to buy pants, I feel like I have to try them on, but it frustrates me because.

• 1:14:25Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:26Jeff Larson?

  So like I bought pants today and I, sometimes it's like 32s will fit me, but sometimes they're too tight.

• 1:14:32Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:32Jeff Larson?

  So 33s, I like expect to always fit me and maybe I'll just need a belt. So I found 33s, I'm like, I'll just get these. And then I get home and I tried them on and like can't even get close to. Like they're like 30s. I don't know why they advertise, because like I didn't get, like I have like 32s that I can wear right now. So it's like, it's their sizing not being consistent, like the sizing on pantwaits are not consistent. And like some companies will even say like, ours run a little tight and it'll be like a 32. And it's like, why does it say 32 then? Like, why can't we just figure that out?

• 1:15:11Wes Larson?

  Yeah. Mike, what size are you?

• 1:15:13Mike Smith?

  I wear 33s as well.

• 1:15:15Wes Larson?

  Okay.

• 1:15:15Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:16Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:17Jeff Larson?

  So yeah, I'm pretty mad about that right now.

• 1:15:20Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:20Mike Smith?

  Hmm.

• 1:15:21Wes Larson?

  I, I actually hate dressing rooms. Like I always, I hate that there's like such a process for it, you know? Like you have to go talk to someone and get it unlocked and like, I, I would love dressing rooms if you could just do it on your own. And I know that's like a theft prevention thing, but like, how many of these employees are actually even paying attention? You know, it does like, just let us go into the dressing room.

• 1:15:43Mike Smith?

  I always think about all the people, like how many other people have tried these pants on? And that starts to give me a little bit of the ick, you know?

• 1:15:51Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:51Mike Smith?

  Who knows what they've got going on down there?

• 1:15:53Wes Larson?

  That could go either way.

• 1:15:54Mike Smith?

  Who knows what I've got going on down there, you know?

• 1:15:57Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:57Jeff Larson?

  Hopefully you.

• 1:15:59Mike Smith?

  Let me check. It's looking bad, guys. I apologize to everyone else.

• 1:16:06Jeff Larson?

  Underrated, I'm gonna go with gambling.

• 1:16:10Wes Larson?

  Gambling.

• 1:16:11Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, people give it a bad time. People say like gambling's bad, you know? It's pretty fun. You just like play cards. It's like playing cards at home is fun, but like it's kind of hard to always care how much if you win or not. But gambling, you always care if you win or not because there's something on the line. And sports betting.

• 1:16:33Wes Larson?

  It always makes it makes it more fun.

• 1:16:35Jeff Larson?

  Like if I want to care about baseball, I'll just bet on baseball. And then all of a sudden, look at me, I'm a baseball fan.

• 1:16:41Wes Larson?

  Yeah, I played some disc golf the other day with my neighbor and it was our first game together, so we didn't bet anything. And I was bored after like four holes. But if we if there had been a little bit of money on the line, even just like $5, I would have been like fully locked in. It was nice talking to him.

• 1:16:58Jeff Larson?

  It wasn't enough just to know you're a better disc golfer than me.

• 1:17:02Wes Larson?

  I wasn't. He beat me. He's great.

• 1:17:04Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:04Wes Larson?

  Maybe if there's some money on the line, I would have played a little harder.

• 1:17:07Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:08Wes Larson?

  All right, uh, well, let's do a couple listener questions. First one is from, well, a few people actually, but Miss Gianna asked, what's the name of the opening closing song you use? My BF and I are constantly duetting the high and low pitched vocals like constantly all day. And we had a few other people ask us about our opening music and we've talked about this before. But Mike, do you want to kind of say how that happened? Like with the the genesis of our of our theme song?

• 1:17:39Mike Smith?

  Yeah, so right around the time we were starting this podcast up, I was actually involved with another project with a few other friends, Bill, actually our editor now. So I sat down in the basement with his other friend, like our mutual friend, and we put together some music for that project. And this track is called Boss Fight Jungle with MIDI Voice 3-6. So that's the, you can put that name to it if you guys need one. Uh, it was gonna be like kind of a video game centric project. It never really. We got off the ground, but just barely before crashing and burning in the base of Tooth and Claw, which was a much more immediate success. So there you go. Boss fight jungle with.

• 1:18:21Wes Larson?

  Well, and I remember when we started it, I had said like, hey, I want something that kind of sounds like jungle drums, but also like kind of ominous. And you were like, I've got just the thing.

• 1:18:32Mike Smith?

  Oh, I've got it locked and loaded. It's like 10 minutes later.

• 1:18:35Wes Larson?

  It was kind of just a placeholder for us where we like always talked about having like a professional, much more professional like group come in and make something for us. But every time we've suggested that our network, Q code, like other people, listeners are like, no, absolutely not. Don't ever replace it. So I don't think it's ever going anywhere.

• 1:18:57Mike Smith?

  It's here to stay.

• 1:18:59Wes Larson?

  Yeah. All right. This one's from Nathalie. Nathalie says, assuming I had no bear spray, would running away from a mother bear protecting her cubs make any sense? If I'm running away, I'm not a threat anymore. Or would that just kick in her predator instincts? You don't want to run away ever from any kind of like potential predator because it could kick in those instincts or just fast, fast movement in general. When you're around cubs can trigger mom and make her feel like something's wrong. So backing away slowly is the move. Don't run.

• 1:19:29Jeff Larson?

  The logic makes sense.

• 1:19:31Wes Larson?

  It does. It does. And that's why I wanted to do this one because I get what Nathalie is saying, but um, but yeah, you don't want to run.

• 1:19:40Jeff Larson?

  Tell that to Bowie.

• 1:19:42Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:45Mike Smith?

  Would it make sense to make yourself smaller while moving away? Like if you lay down and roll away, would that be smart?

• 1:19:52Wes Larson?

  You don't want to leave down and roll away. But um, but not looking intimidating with cubs is, is kind of the move. You don't want to be intimidating.

• 1:19:59Jeff Larson?

  Like they don't really quite understand distance that much, like Rocket in Guardians of the Galaxy. So if you like make yourself smaller, it'll all of a sudden think you're like a mile away.

• 1:20:13Mike Smith?

  Yeah. What about that?

• 1:20:15Wes Larson?

  I don't, yeah, I think just what I said earlier, backing away slowly, um, not being intimidating with a female in Cubs is, is the move. But this one's from Olivia. Olivia says, favorite late night snacks or munchies? What do y'all think?

• 1:20:32Jeff Larson?

  It's been tough for me because I try not to eat as unhealthily as normal. So I don't have a lot of stuff in my house, but then I get those late night urges and I'll just scrape together anything I can, you know?

• 1:20:47Mike Smith?

  Combing through the carpet like a meth addict.

• 1:20:51Jeff Larson?

  Like if there's a cough medicine that has enough sugar in it, I'm, I'm there.

• 1:20:56Mike Smith?

  Cherry flavored. Uh, I'm, I'm more of a salty guy at night, it turns out. So like popcorn and lately Cheez-Its. I've really been craving Cheez-Its a lot when the clock strikes 12.

• 1:21:09Jeff Larson?

  For me, it's just original?

• 1:21:11Mike Smith?

  Extra toasted is the ones I've been going for.

• 1:21:14Wes Larson?

  Extra toasted. They knew what they were doing when they gave it that name. Uh, I, I'm an Oreos and milk kinda guy. That's like, that's what I crave late at night. It's my favorite treat. And I'm always like, I'm just gonna have two. Two will be enough. And then I end up having like six or seven. So, yeah. That's, I think that's the one treat that I always have in my pantry are Oreos. That's just kind of my, my one that's always there. All right. This one's from Doodle.

• 1:21:41Jeff Larson?

  Recently, I've been really into Ben and Jerry's salted caramel cheesecake cookie ice cream.

• 1:21:48Wes Larson?

  Oh, that does sound good. That sounds really good. Yeah. All right. Doodle P says, hey guys, my fiance and I started doing this new thing. Where we give claw ratings to things other than animals. He's not a listener, but I am. And I gave him a list of my 10 claw animals and it just started from there. Like what's a 10 claw fruit or what's a 10 claw meal? What are some things that aren't animals that you would write ten claws? I'm just gonna take that first question and use that one. What's a ten claw fruit for you guys?

• 1:22:16Mike Smith?

  Peaches and mangoes are my two most consistent tens.

• 1:22:21Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:21Mike Smith?

  They're not always tens, but yeah.

• 1:22:23Jeff Larson?

  Loco is always my favorite, so Montana cherries and Utah peaches.

• 1:22:28Wes Larson?

  Yeah, Montana cherries is a great pick. They're definitely a ten for me. I would also say for me, like strawberries and pineapple are the two that I just always enjoy and are always good. Like if I go to a hotel and they have fruit out in the morning, those are the two that I'm most likely to take, I think, so.

• 1:22:45Jeff Larson?

  Okay, a couple of quick ones too. I just asked for 2000s themed listener questions on Instagram. MadgHodggin7 asks, best 2000s song for a school dance? I'd say Enrique Iglesias, the one they played at like every church dance.

• 1:23:04Mike Smith?

  Is it "By La Mo's"? "By La Mo's". "I tell them take you over by La Mo's". "Que quiero, mamacito, by La Mo's". A club banger or like a slow dance song? Cause that's, those are two, like Kiss by a Rose is gonna be the slow dance one for sure, right? Seal? Or is that a 90s song? I forget.

• 1:23:23Wes Larson?

  I think that's 90s.

• 1:23:25Mike Smith?

  Overall, I'm going Lil Jon Eastside Boys Get Low. That's gonna get everyone going.

• 1:23:30Wes Larson?

  Without a doubt, without a doubt.

• 1:23:31Mike Smith?

  Or Apple Bottom Jeans.

• 1:23:33Wes Larson?

  Get Low is mine too.

• 1:23:35Jeff Larson?

  Top three Disney Channel movies. Did you guys get into any of the Disney Channel original movies?

• 1:23:41Wes Larson?

  No, I never watched one.

• 1:23:42Jeff Larson?

  Okay, I'll just take this one. Brink, Johnny Tsunami for sure, and then probably the Even Stevens movie they made. Three, or the girl who dirt bikes with the Supercross or whatever, that was a good one. Camp stack wants to know Christina or Brittany?

• 1:24:04Wes Larson?

  Brittany.

• 1:24:05Mike Smith?

  Yeah, Christina's it's.

• 1:24:08Jeff Larson?

  I'm surprised you guys went that.

• 1:24:09Mike Smith?

  I know. I really like Christina a lot.

• 1:24:11Wes Larson?

  I I was like the perfect age when Britney Spears came out to be like having Britney Spears come out. I just remember that Rolling Stone cover and being like, oh, I'm in love, you know? So that, yeah, for me, for me, it was Hillary, Hillary Duff, but I but Brittany of those two for sure.

• 1:24:32Mike Smith?

  Okay.

• 1:24:33Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:34Mike Smith?

  Oh, are we going like music or do we think is because I I'm actually more of a Christina Aguilera? As far as like I'm attracted to her a little more than Brittany even, but I do like her music.

• 1:24:45Jeff Larson?

  I think it's a combo. It's like saying NSYNC or Backstreet Boys, but it's Brittany or Christina Aguilera.

• 1:24:51Wes Larson?

  I like Brittany's music a lot more, too. So she takes it from me all around.

• 1:24:55Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:55Jeff Larson?

  Ashlyn Pierce wants to know favorite 2000's animated movie. I mean, that's like my favorite Pixar era, I think. So maybe Wally.

• 1:25:05Mike Smith?

  Wally. Spirited Away, I think, was 2003, and that's my favorite animated movie ever. So.

• 1:25:11Wes Larson?

  That's a good one. Emperor's New Groove was 2000. I really liked that movie.

• 1:25:15Mike Smith?

  That's a good pick. That's a great movie.

• 1:25:17Wes Larson?

  I feel like that was the last, like, really good classic Disney movie.

• 1:25:21Jeff Larson?

  All right, last one. Kylie Elizabeth asked best pop punk song of 2000. So not your favorite, like pop punk. So, yeah.

• 1:25:29Mike Smith?

  Yeah, the best pop punk.

• 1:25:30Wes Larson?

  Opened up a real Pandora's box here. I was I was very squarely in the pop punk scene in like early 2000s. That was like, that was it for me. This is a hard one for me to pick the best.

• 1:25:43Jeff Larson?

  I mean, mine would have to be cute without the it's like my favorite song ever. You think that counts?

• 1:25:48Wes Larson?

  That's a good pick. Yeah, they're they're like emo pop punk.

• 1:25:52Mike Smith?

  Sure. It's close enough that I think that counts. I was gonna go somewhere emo too, like teenagers or Helena from My Chem, but.

• 1:25:59Jeff Larson?

  If I if I gotta go less emo, I'll take the what's their name? Oh, I just had it. The like lifestyles of the rich and the famous.

• 1:26:09Wes Larson?

  Good Charlotte.

• 1:26:10Jeff Larson?

  Charlotte.

• 1:26:10Wes Larson?

  Interesting.

• 1:26:13Wes Larson?

  This is really hard for me, actually.

• 1:26:15Mike Smith?

  Maybe a some 41 sneaks in there.

• 1:26:17Wes Larson?

  Some time for the dude. Some 41 is is really fun. I thought about that for a second, too. Man, I don't know. I'm having a hard time picking. Like, this is different from your favorite, so... Right, because I like my favorites were like, weren't even pop punk necessarily, but I, it would have to be a Blink song for me, probably. Nah, Weezer's not pop punk. Garage Rock. Yeah, I would say probably like, from the 2000s, I'd have to say like, maybe Feeling This by Blink. Might be my favorite like pop punk song, but I don't know, that's, I'm, I don't feel good about that answer, but that's just what I'm gonna say. We can talk about it more later, if you...

• 1:26:57Jeff Larson?

  You can have a good trial it if you want.

• 1:27:00Wes Larson?

  I don't want a trial it, yeah. Yeah, my mind went to MXPX, cuz they were my favorite pop punk band in like 2000. Or Anthem by Zebrahead? I'd say they were the most punk of the pop punk bands, too. So like, I don't know. They, they, like, there were real punk people that really liked MXPX.

• 1:27:20Jeff Larson?

  They didn't even swear or anything.

• 1:27:21Wes Larson?

  I know, but they still had like, they did have some credibility in that scene. They really did. Alright, well, thank you guys for sending in questions, both our subscribers and our listeners at large. Again, another benefit to subscription is we have a whole thread on our Patreon channel where people could submit questions. We don't get to all of them, there's a lot of questions on there, but it is a higher chance of having your question read if you are a subscriber. That's it, that's it, for the new stories. This is it.

• 1:27:52Wes Larson?

  Alright, love you guys, we'll see you later. Yeah.

• 1:27:55Jeff Larson?

  Love ya. Polar bears have dark skin.

• 1:27:58Wes Larson?

  Alright, see ya.