Meet The Nuclear Base Employee Abducted By Aliens

Start your new morning ritual & get up to 43% off your @MUDWTR with code JESSE at https://mudwtr.com/JESSE ! #mudwtrpod Join Jesse Michels on today's episode of American Alchemy as he speaks with Mario Woods, a former U. S. Air Force security responder, who shares a life-altering encounter at Ellsworth Air Force Base in 1977. During a routine missile site operation, he and his partner, Michael Johnson, investigated unusual lights in the sky, leading them to a massive, spherical craft. Woods describes the overwhelming fear and physical effects experienced during the encounter, including a blackout that resulted in lost hours. He emphasizes the stigma around reporting such incidents and discusses potential government cover-ups. Reflecting on the experience's lasting impacts, Woods expresses a desire to reconnect with Johnson to explore their shared experiences further. Timestamps: 00:00 - Introduction 00:56 - Early Life and Military Background 05:02 - The Night of the Incident 25:04 - Encountering the Unknown 35:49 - The Aftermath and Missing Time 54:55 - Investigations and Cover-Ups 01:00:40 - Medical Evaluation and Findings 01:09:21 - Reflection and Drawings 01:11:13 - Unforgettable Encounters 01:12:12 - The Mystery of Missing Records 01:15:33 - Insights from the Past 01:19:56 - The Journey of Hypnosis 01:25:26 - A Life Changed Forever 01:27:29 - The Beings Behind the Craft 01:38:26 - The Pain of Revelation 01:38:43 - Physical Evidence of Experience 01:43:02 - Speculations on Time Travel 01:47:14 - Reflections on Encounters 01:49:42 - The Emotional Aftermath 01:58:01 - The Lights in the Night 02:22:21 - Phenomenon in the Family 02:24:51 - Outro JOIN OUR NEW COMMUNITY ➤ https://whop.com/americanalchemy Become a Member of American Alchemy: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuG2KzrIMe3qoNcuDVpwnXw/join INSTAGRAM ➤ https://www.instagram.com/jessemichelsofficial TWITTER ➤ https://twitter.com/AlchemyAmerican EMAIL/BOOKINGS ➤ [email protected] #aliens #interview #uap #science #documentary Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:28Speaker 01

  And as we turned left on the, not a hard left, just a dog leg left, there sat this object on top of November 5 that was about 10 feet in the air, directly on top of that blast door. That was the size of a Walmart building. It was huge, and it was a sphere.

• 0:47Speaker 02

  I sat down with Mario Woods, a former U.S. Air Force security responder. In 1977, he was stationed at Ellsworth Air Force Base in South Dakota. Then, aged 23, he experienced an incident that would change him forever, literally leaving him with missing time, marks on his body, and a colleague locked in catatonic shock for hours.

• 1:12Speaker 01

  Literally could not get a breath of air. It was just all encompassing.

• 1:17Speaker 02

  So here it is, my full interview with Mario Woods.

• 1:22Jesse Michels?

  So who are you?

• 1:27Speaker 01

  Oh, my name is Mario Woods. I currently live in southeast Georgia. I'm 69 years old. I served in the Air Force from 1975 to 1983, and in 1977 had quite the experience on November 5 missile site, which was a Minuteman II 1.2-megaton weapon in the ground, in a hardened structure, in a silo, just north of a small town named Newell, South Dakota, which is 30 miles north of Sturgis, which most people have heard before. And this is a high plains area, buffalo-running terrain, seen them a few times also, but...

• 2:13Speaker 01

  One o'clock in the morning changed my life that week of November, we say 18th, 1977.

• 2:22Jesse Michels?

  And you were stationed at Ellsworth?

• 2:24Speaker 01

  At Ellsworth Air Force Base, that's correct.

• 2:26Jesse Michels?

  And what was your role there? What were you doing?

• 2:28Speaker 01

  Security police, assigned to the missile squadron. You have about 800 security police officers that worked the site and about one-third are assigned to aircraft back at the main support base of Ellsworth, the actual Air Force Base. All the missile sites themselves are manned by six-man teams and there are 150 men who man two missiles with 15 launch control facilities is where you live and you act as a response team while on duty on a 12-hour shift to respond to any and all given alarms or launch facility checks or anything that an ordinary police-type duty would be.

• 3:12Jesse Michels?

  Not for our sake, but for the context of the audience, do you have any mental health history prior to your sighting in 1977, your experience in 1977?

• 3:22Speaker 01

  No, I do not. I was part of the personal reliability program also for sensitive nuclear equipment.

• 3:28Jesse Michels?

  Can you explain what that is?

• 3:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, anyone that works around any type of nuclear devices, weaponry, or construction of or the storage of nuclear components, whatever it may be, plutonium, uranium, or anything that's used in that particular field, you have to be cleared and granted a clearance in order to do it. If they detect anything that's abnormal with how you may react up to and including taking life, if you have to, and you know, in preservation of keeping that ours. Uh, or saving someone's life. I mean, they really analyze you deeply to see if, you know, if you can't do that.

• 4:11Jesse Michels?

  And you have to report if you're taking any sort of medication.

• 4:13Speaker 01

  Oh, they know. Yes.

• 4:14Jesse Michels?

  Any sort of, uh, uh.

• 4:16Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 4:17Jesse Michels?

  Diagnoses in the past dealing with mental health.

• 4:19Speaker 01

  Correct. They, they do random, uh, blood tests, urinalysis, uh, everything. We didn't have gum swabs back then, or, you know, the, the tests were quite different back in that day, but, uh, that was really, there was, there was no, uh, leniency in that.

• 4:34Jesse Michels?

  Okay. So you're in Ellsworth Air Force Base. It's 1977. You have a partner that you're working with?

• 4:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. His name, that, yeah. Michael Johnson. He's a real light-skinned black guy. He told me he was from Chicago, Illinois. And we only worked together that one day. He was working vacation relief for my partner, whose name was Steve Welchel, who went to North Carolina to get married. So he had 30 days in which to do that. So in the interim, while we went on a tour into the field, and mind you, your main base is Ellsworth, and you report there, our SATAF, our operations facility, uh, is at Ellsworth. And all the different, all the three squadrons meet there for this huge guard mount as we are, you know, we depart from there on buses or helicopters if the weather's too bad and they can't travel on the road.

• 5:21Speaker 01

  And we go out to our respective launch control facilities where we live for three days at a time and come in the morning of the fourth day.

• 5:28Jesse Michels?

  So set the scene for the night in question. What, what, what are you doing?

• 5:33Speaker 01

  Uh, really nothing. We had gotten out there probably about nine 30, 10 o'clock in the morning. Usually if you're working the night shift, which we were, we were assigned to, which was 6:00 PM to 6:00 AM, we, um, tried to lay down and take a nap, but, you know, that young and strong and vibrant, I didn't really see the need to do that.

• 5:54Speaker 01

  So during the day, I just stayed up and did some other things, played some ping pong or something. And that night we went on duty at 6:00 PM. Uh, of course we go in and we get all of our code tables issued to us and all that stuff. Uh, or when we're dispatched, it can be either or. And.

• 6:12Speaker 01

  I guess it was about uh nine o'clock, nine fifteen or so. And I smoked cigarettes then, so I just thought I'd walk outside and have a cigarette. And it was between nine and thirteen degrees outside. So I have my long johns on over my fatigues. And I just walked outside and you know, you're talking prairie land as far as you can see north and east and west and you don't see south because the building's behind you. And uh I see this light off to my east at about a thirty degree angle. And it it looks like uh like a mini moon. I I honestly thought it was it was the uh landing lights or some type of landing lights

• 6:55Speaker 01

  for B fifty-two bombers because the main base supported aircraft, uploaded aircraft uh of B fifty-twos. And they often flew sorties or tests runs across the prairies at night. Usually around three hundred feet. So it was like a low level flight, right? It was pretty cool to see that. That's what I thought it was. I thought they were coming to me. That's why I couldn't really gauge the distance. I mean, I I thought five to seven miles. And I'll stick with that at about thirty degrees, but that it never changed. And I kept looking at it, looking at it. Now, if I extended my hand this way, it covered the the circumference of the of the lights

• 7:40Speaker 01

  I was the light I was looking at.

• 7:42Jesse Michels?

  So what did how far away was the object?

• 7:45Speaker 01

  I would guess five to seven miles. And and I'll the reason I say that is at the end of this, I can make that correlation. Uh, because you got to have things that, you know, that put all this together. And uh it it was just so strange. It was it was as if there was a light right out there, a few miles away from you. And you know, it doesn't belong there, but it's not coming near you and it's not going in either direction anywhere else. And there's no noise associated with it. There's no it just sits there. So that's where I was with that. And I'm smoking this cigarette and I thought, what? Literally, I thought, what the hell is that? It can't be, is that B fifty-twos or is it helicopters? We did have helicopters back then, but I'd never saw them fly at night like that. And uh.

• 8:30Speaker 01

  So again, I just thought it was two B-52 bombers together, so close. You know, one behind and a wingman like, you know, like that, that I, I just took it as that. But I held my hand up like this and it covered the light, the circumference of the light. But if I did my fist like this, then it was larger than my fist was. And I thought, that is really strange. How can that be? When I sailed with my father, uh, growing up, I, I went to sea with him a couple of times during the summertime. He could, he could do that. You can't do that today, but back then, you know, a chief engineer could do that.

• 9:02Jesse Michels?

  Mm-hmm.

• 9:03Speaker 01

  Uh, I went inside the facility, went into the flight security controller office, which was just right to the right as you open the front door. And Bill Holloman, he was a staff sergeant. He was talking to his wife back at Ellsworth. And, uh, the toggle switch or the rocker switch was on the wall just behind him, right next to the entrance to the elevator door where the officers used to go down the elevator to the capsule. And I said, hey, Bill, I said, there's something out here strange in the air. I said, some lights. I said, do you mind if I flip my lights at this, flip the lights at this thing? And he just looked up at me literally, and he had that big old gray phone back to his head. And he just kind of waved me off, you know, like, go ahead, do what you want.

• 9:45Speaker 01

  So I just honestly, no SOS or nothing. I just flipped it off and on, off and on, off and on three times. And, uh, I ran back outside. I was probably twenty five, twenty, twenty-five feet away from the door and just a little bit to the, uh, east of it, of the door, of the front of the door. And, uh, just watching it, a couple of minutes went by, maybe a minute and a half. And all of a sudden, this thing goes out, on, out, on, out and on. And it just sent shivers up me and I went, wow, they do see me. So I literally thought it, okay, cause I've had them do wing waves at me before, like fighter aircraft or helicopters. They'll do a little swing like that if they see you on the ground.

• 10:28Speaker 01

  And as security policemen, you're taught that. You, you are taught hand signals and flashlight signals, you know, for aircraft, if you need to be rescued or you're trying to aid them getting to the ground or what have you, you know, you, you are trained on that. So I just thought it was really cool and I thought, all right, well, let's carry this on a little bit further. Cause still it was in the same location. Not coming closer, no sound. So as I went in, I said, hey, Michael, didn't know Michael from Adam's house cat. It's the first time we ever worked together and he was just simply come out, sent out to work his vacation relief from my partner. So I went in, I said, hey, man, there's something in the air. You need to come and look at. And now he worked missiles

• 11:11Speaker 01

  also, but on a different flight. He was usually at a different location. He didn't work in November and he outranked me by two months, by the way. So he would be driving the vehicle and I would be the passenger or the team member. So he kind of looks at me for a minute and really is not too excited. I said, come on out here, man. You got to see this hoping it would still be there when I went outside. So he comes outside. I said, hold on right there. We walked about 20, 25 feet. And I said, look at that. You see that? He goes, yeah. I said, I just flashed the lights at that thing and it flashed back at me. And he just looked at me as in disbelief. So I, I said, stay right here. And I ran in there real fast. And I said, hey, Bill, you got to come see this thing. Cause he and I, we went back a ways and we knew each other pretty well. And I don't know

• 11:54Speaker 01

  what kind of discussion he was in with his wife, but he chose not to come out and stayed on that damn phone. So I flipped the lights again, same sequence, blip, blip, blip, blip, blip, blip, three of them, three times, ran back outside, about two minutes passed and it goes out, comes on, goes out, comes on, and stayed on twice. Three and two, that's right. And uh,

• 12:21Speaker 01

  so he just kind of looked at me and looked back at that. And I said, what do you think, man? He goes, man, I don't know. And I said, I'm gonna do it again. I'm gonna do it again. Maybe it'll, I said, do you hear anything? Couldn't hear nothing. He didn't hear anything. He didn't seem to be too impressed. I must say that. He just, it didn't seem to really get a hold of him the way it did me. I was excited about it. Still not knowing what it was. I said, it's gotta, I said, it's gotta be B-52s. No reply. So I ran back in again. I did the same thing. He stayed right there, flipped it off, flipped it on, flipped it off, flipped it on, ran back outside. I know Bill Holloman thought I was a nut by that time. So I get back out there and it flipped off and it did not come back on.

• 13:04Speaker 01

  And it but when it did come on was about it was about 30 seconds or so. It had moved just a little bit north, but it had moved further westward like from that position to this position, which made it look say from the say from the three o'clock position where I was visualizing it, seeing it, maybe to the 130 position, something like that. And it came on and it just stayed right there. Never heard anything. Never saw any type of flame or anything like an afterburner or nothing. It didn't move. It just was right there. And he goes, hey, man, he goes, he said, I don't know. And I said, what do you think it could be? Oh, whatever, whatever. And he walked

• 13:48Speaker 01

  back inside. So the last time I went in there and flipped the lights at the thing, came back out, and then that would be the fourth time. And it was out and I didn't see it again. It was when I came back out, it was gone, or it was out. So I, I just shook my head. I just took it as well. I guess they went that way, you know, maybe flying up toward or over toward Belfus, which is about 30 miles away, north and west of our location. Uh, more north of that's North Dakota, you know, so I mean, we were in that proximity in that high northwestern area there. And so I just went back inside and I guess all this time from like quarter after nine to about nine 40s when all

• 14:30Speaker 01

  this transpired, you know, maybe nine 35. It's hard to be exact, but I try to be. And I went in and started playing some cards, watching TV or something, or he didn't want to do anything. As I said, we literally didn't know each other and we didn't, we spoke very little. And other than the fact that I knew, you know, the area in November, you know, that site and all the missile sites where they were located, which are 10 of them.

• 14:56Speaker 01

  He was just there to fill in. So, uh, we watched TV until midnight and that signal comes on. It used to be, looked like a radiological signal. Used to come on at 12 o'clock when all, the three stations that we have would go off the air. And then it would have that loud noise, you know, that signal. Static. Yeah. So that happened. So he just turned the TV off. Nation was a different place then, believe me. Was in a different place then. And, uh, I guess it was about 12:15. When, as I was sitting down, I think I was looking at a book or something. I hear the alert phone. In the flight security controller's office go off.

• 15:37Speaker 01

  And that's the phone that's directly connected to the launch control people downstairs, two officers downstairs. And it sounds like, and you, it rings until you pick it up. You gotta snatch it off the wall. Of course, Bill Holloman did that and he, I hear him saying, yes, sir, yes, sir, yes, sir. Sit for November 5th, which is a two-pronged alarm. It's an above ground and a below ground sensor that has been affected. And as I said, the temperature was between nine and 13 degrees that night. So it was cold, so I had on my long johns, fatigue pants and shirt, you know, and, uh, my, my, I had on bunny boots. Cause I knew I was going to be doing some walking, cause you have to do a certain, a certain type of route around the facility on foot.

• 16:22Speaker 01

  Inside and outside the fence line, which is a, a good walk. And, uh, in snow, it gets kinda little dicey, cause it just does. But anyway, so we got all of our equipment. We had our weapons, we had our coat tables, we had our ditty bags, which is what you carry all your stuff in. And the F-154 pickup truck was sitting directly outside our, uh, our front door. We keep it plugged in because it gets so cold there that it will freeze up the coolant in your engine. Or they also have a way of keeping the, uh, transmission warm with a plug-in. So unplug that, we were set to go, the vehicle's warming up. And, um, we got our safety briefing and everything that we needed. And off we went.

• 17:06Speaker 01

  And I'd say that was probably right around 12:20, 12:25, and it was a 15-minute. Excuse me, travel time to November 5. And strangely enough, that was the closest launch facility to our launch control facility where we lived. It was the closest one as the crow flies. It was only maybe five and a half miles away, but the way that you had to get there made it probably 10 miles or eight and a half, 10 miles, somewhere in there.

• 17:38Speaker 01

  So as we left, we go through the gate out to the end. These are all clay roads. You can go from one interstate on the other on the clay road and they're maintained by the state. They're very nice. Got to the intersection, hung a left. There's no traffic, believe me, there's no traffic. And next intersection, turn left and it's four and a half miles from that intersection up to Highway 79, which runs down to Newell. So you're going uphill as you go down in this little depression area. You're going uphill toward the highway bed as they build them high as the snow and ice runs off of them. And I just happened to look to about my four o'clock position, straight that way where November 5 was located.

• 18:22Speaker 01

  And when I did, I see this, I see this pulsation, like an orange, yellow and white type glow coming off the ground from miles away. Should have never, never seen that before. And I said, hey, Michael, I said, check this out, man. I said, you see that glow over there? I said, look, look out. I said, can you see that? He didn't say anything yet. And as we got up to Highway 79 and we turned right, then we're on top of that plateau. And now that four o'clock has become like a 1:30 again. And I said, look at that, man. I'm telling you, that's that object. And why I said that, I don't know. He just said, whatever, man. And he said that to me a couple of times that night, whatever, man.

• 19:04Speaker 01

  So as we traversed down Highway 79 toward Newell to a stop sign. There's one stop sign and one stop light in Newell. And the population then was 230 people in that town. And it was on the entrance and the exit on Highway 79. Every time I entered Newell, population was 230. When I left, it was 230. So now it's 600 and something as I was there in 21, but um. As we went downhill, I lost sight of that pulsating glow. We went down to the stop sign. We took a right and the road goes out about a mile and a half. And then a dog leg's back to the left. And as we turned left on the not, not a hard left, just a dog leg left.

• 19:48Speaker 01

  There sat this object on top of November 5. It was about 10 feet in the air, directly on top of that blast door. That was the size of a Walmart building. This thing was as big as this building you're in right here. It was, it was huge and it was a sphere. It had an energy source that, that moved around it like, like you'd see pictures of the sun, how it's just like boiling. I don't want to call it plasma, but I don't know what, what really to call it. But there were no tail sections, no, no, no portholes. There were no thrusters. There was no leading edges of any kind, no wings, tail section, nothing that we would associate anything in the air with.

• 20:31Speaker 01

  It was a complete sphere, but on a magnitude that is just hard to even comprehend.

• 20:36Jesse Michels?

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• 22:04Jesse Michels?

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• 22:19Speaker 01

  So we pulled up to this thing

• 22:23Speaker 01

  about 60 feet on the access road to the site itself. Yeah, these, you know, I think the fence was either 10 or 12 foot fence with big opening gates on it. And we pulled up at a 45 degree angle, right where the cattle crossing is located, because all these ranchers own this property and the property was leased from them to put these missile sites on back in the day when they built them. So cattle can't come out into the main road. It still happens, but it really decreases that from occurring. So we pulled up right at that cattle gate. And immediately upon doing so, immediately upon doing so, it was as if a light came down that just about blew my eyeballs out of my head.

• 23:06Speaker 01

  It just, you could literally almost see the veins behind, behind your eyelids. It was as if, uh,

• 23:16Speaker 01

  I don't know what kind of energy that was, but whatever was released or, or put down our way, just completely almost disabled you just from the brightness. It was like living in a welder's light for a few moments. And then the atmosphere just vacated. Couldn't breathe, literally could not get a breath of air. Now, I don't know if that was from my excitement. I don't know, it's from adrenaline. I, I'm 23 years old. I was in excellent shape. I could flat foot 25 miles in full combat dress and, and smoke a cigarette at the end of it. Didn't bother me a bit, literally, I was in that kind of shape.

• 23:52Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 23:53Speaker 01

  And I was just so taken, Michael Johnson, I never even remember him looking up at the thing, but for me, we were at a, I was at a 45 degree angle and I'm looking directly out his window and part of the back window in the, from, this is an F-154 pickup truck, a 1975 or 76, I can't remember which, but the square body type, type pickup truck, the western mirrors on the sides of them, two-wheel drive vehicles. And the only thing I knew to do was to ask for relief. And where did that come from? I have no idea where that, where that thought or impulse came from.

• 24:35Jesse Michels?

  You pray to God or Jesus or just relief generically?

• 24:38Speaker 01

  I, I think he was in there and I just asked for relief from what I was experiencing, to breathe, because I didn't think I was going to be able to take another breath of air. And I grabbed my flashlight, which I've gotten ridiculed before, it was like, it was an aluminum black 3D cell flashlight. Think it was made in Japan, I'm not sure, but it was a great tool and they just started making them. Now Maglite didn't come out until 79, I had this in 77, it was given to me as a gift. And I rolled the window down. And I reached up with my right hand and I grabbed onto that mirror, pulled myself up

• 25:22Speaker 01

  on that window seal because I was so afraid to step out of the cab of that truck. And I'm fully armed, why would I be afraid? I've never been afraid to do anything. I mean, especially in my duty, I was so afraid of what I was experiencing, I didn't know how to, I didn't know how to deal with it. I pulled myself up on the seat of that, up on the window seal of that truck, out of that seat. And I grabbed my flashlight and I had a glove on my left hand and I had my, I had my flashlight in my right hand and I had, had my hand on the blue bubble up on top with a glove and I just, I just flashed that flashlight at this thing, like I did at the facility, I guess, I don't really know.

• 26:06Speaker 01

  And as soon as I did. It felt that I got relief. It felt like there was relief and I just slid back down in the seat. And as I slid back down in the seat, I noticed all these, I noticed dust particles and stuff that in a way in which that cab was lit up that uh, it's hard to describe. It seemed like everything was in slow motion, like the dust that was in that cab circulating uh, from the vent work was like it was in slow motion movement. I was like looking at it. It was like sparkles or something or like glitter. It was like that. And I, I thought, what, what's happening here? What is this? And I, I was trying to

• 26:46Speaker 01

  breathe. I was trying to talk to Michael, got no answer from him as he was just stuck or glued to that, to that steering wheel. And he was just bathed in a blue white light. You know, the light intensity never honestly went away. It was just, it was just all encompassing. It was just, it was just all surrounding to a point where you're like trapped in light. There's no, there's nowhere to go. I mean, there's nothing you can do about it. He just, I don't know. I just felt like somebody had me right where they wanted me for some reason.

• 27:23Speaker 00

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• 27:55Speaker 01

  These thoughts and all this that I just described went by in just a couple of seconds, not minutes, but just a couple of seconds. All this just happened so fast, faster than what I've just told you.

• 28:08Speaker 01

  And then this black ball about six times the size of a beach ball looked as if it had vents or something on it, not round vents, but these long, long like lines coming down the side of it. Just it didn't touch our truck, but it shot right down in front over the hood of this F-150. And I don't even know what to say, but it was so fast and so whatever it was doing quick, that it just bounced around from every location on our truck, front, back, left, right, in front, and then it was just gone.

• 28:50Speaker 01

  I don't, and I still don't know how much time has passed.

• 28:56Speaker 01

  Then I became afraid.

• 28:59Speaker 01

  And I made sure I rolled my window up. I put my M16, when I came back, got it back in it, when I slid back into the truck, I put my M16 between my legs and I was, I was holding on to the barrel. I don't know where my flashlight went. I just knew to secure my weapon between my legs and I held on to the barrel. And this permeating smell, I have no idea where it came from because as I said, my window was up and I know his window was up. So it had to come through the ventilation ductwork, I guess. But it permeated the vehicle like, I mean, stench smell. Bad ammonia, like you want to roll the windows down, you, you want to step outside and get some fresh air. I mean, some of the cleanest air on the planet runs through South Dakota year round, but uh,

• 29:42Speaker 01

  this was like standing in a, in a,

• 29:47Speaker 01

  I don't know, in a bottom of a boat or something, you know, where they catch shrimp, I guess, and dump them there. But put them there, I shouldn't even say that, but anyway, it was overwhelming. And when I smell that, I just got a real strange feeling from within like.

• 30:08Speaker 01

  Something when you're afraid or when you're scared or something, I knew that wasn't normal. And I know I'd never smelled that before. I only associated it with what I'd smelled in the past, trying to make a, maybe a visualization in my mind, what it could be. And the light never stopped. The pressure did. We could breathe again, or I could breathe again. Michael Johnson, he didn't, he never said anything from the time we rolled up to that site, anything. The last thing he said to me was on the top of Highway 79, when whatever man, as it was

• 30:48Speaker 01

  glowing over in the far distance that I saw this pulsation off the ground, or what I took as off the ground from where we were from driving there. And so when that happened, I felt as if I was becoming sleepy or tunnel visioned or something. I kept shaking my head as I relive it, as we're sitting here right now, I kept trying to, I felt as if I was gonna go out. So I was trying to hold my breath and squeeze, you know, like pilots do that, you know, in G suits to keep the blood in their head, right? But I felt as if I was gonna pass out.

• 31:31Speaker 01

  And I started getting this tunnel vision effect in a way where I couldn't, I couldn't see, and it was just getting smaller and smaller, and it was black on the exterior of that visual that I was looking out the front window. I mean, all these thoughts are running around in your brain, and this is only, this is all taking place in just a couple of minutes, not 10 minutes, not even five minutes, from what I, what I understand. And as I'm blacking out, I know I feel something on my right side. And I turn my head and I see these four, I'm gonna call them beings. And they are not walking as you and I walk. They are just gliding across the ground, maybe.

• 32:16Speaker 01

  I don't know how high off the ground, I couldn't really see that. But they have these little uniforms on. And the one on the far right, he had some type of a small wand in his waist belt. I've got a drawing of it. That had a yellow tip on it, some type of a yellow tip. And it really got my attention. And I was. And I just couldn't believe what I was seeing. But the one behind those three, the front three were the same size, exactly the same size. Looked exactly the same. But the one behind them was, was a, was a chest and a head taller than the little guys. And he had this thing on his chest right here.

• 32:59Speaker 01

  That, that pulsated the same color as what was on that little wand. And when I saw him, then, then I was afraid. Then I felt fear.

• 33:11Speaker 01

  Maybe just visualized fear, I don't know. It didn't do anything to me that caused fear, other than where I was and what I'd just gone through. And then I, I went black. I just. But I just went, that's the last thing that I saw in my mind. And just a second went by. And literally, I, I, I came, when I came to, my weapon was between my legs and I'm still holding on to it. And I just looked straight up like that and right out the windshield of that 150 in his total blackness.

• 33:45Speaker 01

  And I thought, where, where'd all the light go? Where's, literally, I didn't even know where I was, we were. I said, Michael, Michael, where are we? What, where's November 5? Cause this, this lit up, it has lights on it, you know, they're like, like pole lights. It has those type of lights on it at night. This is a standalone facility, so even if external power is cut, this thing takes over and has a generator run itself, right?

• 34:12Speaker 01

  No answer from Michael. And I kept yelling at him, Michael, Michael, what's going on with you, man? And I pushed him in his shoulder really hard. I even, I put my finger in his ear after a couple of minutes. I shoved him, shoved him, checked his pulse.

• 34:26Speaker 01

  He was breathing. I couldn't get anything out of him. He was as if he was in some type of a state that I didn't didn't even really know to have the words for. As if he was, his eyes were open and he was breathing. And his heart was pumping, but he was just stuck on that steering wheel and I, I tried, I don't know how many times to get him to say something. I said, snap out of it, man. What's going on? What's wrong? I got frustrated with that and I just popped the door open, little lever on the side. I popped the door open and I stepped out trying to get in my mind where November 5 go. Cause that's where we were. I mean, and this was a, this was a, a very serious alarm. So

• 35:07Speaker 01

  that, that reason had to be found out why that thing alarmed. Where it, how it did, uh, in that, in that alarm configuration. And when I stepped down, I stepped in mud with those bunny boots on and I went, what the hell? How is this? And, and then to my right, where your chair is located, maybe a foot further. There was a wall there at about a 45 degree angle and it was white and it went up about, I don't know, as far as I could see, like 50 feet, but my eyes got more accustomed to the darkness. And then when I looked in both directions, not knowing exactly where I was on the compass.

• 35:48Speaker 01

  Uh, it was as far as I could see that direction, as far as I could see that direction. And up about 50 feet, when I become acclimated to the, to the darkness. Had no idea where this was. I said, Michael, come on, man. You gotta wake up, dude. We're, you know, we're in a bad way here. We got to find out what, what the hell's going on here, you know? Nothing, nothing. I even tried pulling his hand off that steering wheel and he was just, he was just, I, I don't know how a person can stay that tense and for so long that they don't cramp up. I would cramp up doing that, but he did.

• 36:28Speaker 01

  The next thing that I knew was I hear

• 36:32Speaker 01

  WSC to November 1, that's us.

• 36:36Speaker 01

  WSC, November 1, watch your location. And I just, I said, are you going to get that? Thinking that would snap him out of that, hearing that radio signal. A radio call for us. He didn't answer. And I picked it up and I said, Senior Airman Woods, WSC. I said, uh, I don't know where we are. And he goes, do you need medical help or do you need assistance? And I said, I don't know, sir. I said, I'm fine, but my partner won't respond to me. I said, he's awake, breathing and well. But he won't let go of the steering wheel and he's just sitting in the driver's seat, just like he is stuck.

• 37:13Jesse Michels?

  He's just like in the frozen catatonic state.

• 37:15Speaker 01

  That's the word that I had never heard when it was told to me, catatonic state. And that's correct. He was. So when I, when I finally got out of the vehicle again and, and walked and looked and I'm thinking, where did all this mud come from? With this temperature, because everything else is frozen.

• 37:39Speaker 01

  As I said, that wall was at about

• 37:43Speaker 01

  50 feet high and at this strange angle, like 45 degrees. Well, it was the backside of the New Lake Reservoir Dam. And that is about on the map, about eight miles, eight and a half miles away from November 5. Now, we only had two-wheel drive vehicles and where we were positioned behind that dam was in the very center of that dam wall.

• 38:10Speaker 01

  At the, really at the most center point. And at the far end was the slough gate where they control the water flow. And allow it to go out if it gets, if the reservoir gets too full. And in front of us was the rest of the dam and it, that road ran north and south.

• 38:30Speaker 01

  Wing Security Control told me to maintain one minute security checks because they were trying to triangulate our location. Now, I had never done that in tech school,

• 38:41Speaker 01

  but I'd heard of it. I may have read something about it, but I'd never done it or been part of that, that training. So I didn't know how it was done. So I did what they asked and I probably made, it probably made, I don't know, I probably made 20, 25 checks before they got to us. And

• 38:58Speaker 01

  as I was doing that, I noticed it was getting light to the east and that was the sun coming up. And then it dawned on me, well, man, we got this alarm last night at 12:15 and I looked at my watch and it was after 6 a.m. So we have all that missing time and I can't explain any of it because for me, it was just what I saw, what we experienced, what I smelled, lights out. Next thing I know, we're sitting behind New Lake Reservoir Dam.

• 39:27Jesse Michels?

  Miles away.

• 39:29Speaker 01

  Miles away. Sergeant Garza, it was a, there were three alert teams looking for. So that's six security policemen from three different sites, whether they use the primary or the backup alert teams, I'm not really sure. And in 2021, discovered that not only did they, were they searching for us, but Wing Security Control or the, or Base Control, or whoever they were, asked for a federal or state assistance. So they sent out two deputy officers from Sturgis and one state trooper that, that area was his area. And I've, I've got a guy that's named Steve that's working on, as he is a state trooper today,

• 40:14Speaker 01

  who that deputy, or who that state trooper was that was on duty at that time. And two of the three are passed, but one name, last name Kellogg is still alive and I'm trying to make contact with him.

• 40:26Jesse Michels?

  Did Michael Johnson ever make it out of his catatonic state, your partner?

• 40:30Speaker 01

  No, not while we were there. When Sergeant Garza pulled up, he pulled up within, say,

• 40:37Speaker 01

  60 feet. I guess he didn't want to get in, get into the, to the snow area that we were in. He pulled up and I, I walked around the back of the truck, walked out toward him. And I said, I said, hey, Sergeant Guards, how's it going? I said, what's going on? He said, Mario, I can't talk to you about this. He said, I'm just here to escort you back to November control. And I said, okay, but I need help with Michael Johnson. And he looked at me kind of strange. He said, what do you mean? I said, I can't get him off the steering wheel and he won't talk. He won't say anything. Well, you know, I've never dealt with anything like that, or anybody else has that I know where somebody's, you know, locked up, frozen in some type of state of, or catatonic state, hanging on to something.

• 41:20Speaker 01

  You know, usually you can, you know, I, I literally couldn't believe how hard it was to get that man's hands off that steering wheel. I really, I couldn't believe it. So we unbelted him and did that. We slid him across the driver's seat and into the passenger side, belted him back in. He just sat there with his hands down, looking forward. And I kept talking to him, thinking at some point he would just feel, fall free, you know, or whatever he was experiencing. But again, this was a two-wheel drive vehicle. And walking around that vehicle, as I just described, on the left side or driver's side of that vehicle, about four and a half foot away from that door was a big drop off that's there today.

• 41:59Speaker 01

  And that is the, the holding pond for anything that comes out of that dam. And it's pretty dead gum deep. So

• 42:09Speaker 01

  had we gone in there, driven in there, I'm just, this is a what if now, had we driven in there, that road's only five feet wide. There's no way that this two-wheel drive F-150 Ford with road tires on it, not even any big mud tires or anything, didn't even have those back then, would be able to turn around. We were just in the only position we could be in to drive out of that dead gum place. And I drove out of it and I never went over any tracks and it hadn't snowed anymore. Or anything had, nothing had changed since, since we were there. When I left out of there, it was the only set of tracks coming out of where we were. One set of tracks. But had he opened that door and stepped out of that vehicle, or I had, you'd have gone right down.

• 42:52Speaker 01

  Now, you know, wouldn't have, probably just slid down in mud, but it was down pretty deep. And that, it was just amazing to me how we were in the right position to exit there. That's important to me. Uh, trying to explain it to myself how, how this took place. So, followed them back to the launch control facility to November 1. They escorted us all the way there. And then, uh, two of the three teams dropped off. And I guess Garza or one of the teams remained. I guess they had to have when we were going to be removed from the site and taken back to the main base of Ellsworth, which is about 55 miles away. And I didn't know that at the time. They had to have our replacements immediately there that you can't be understaffed

• 43:37Speaker 01

  on any kind of launch control facility. It has to be fully staffed at all times.

• 43:44Speaker 01

  So when we pulled up at the site, my flight chief was there, Master Sergeant Hawkins, or, um, Master Sergeant Joel Gray, Assistant Flight Chief, was Tech Sergeant Hawkins. The, um, facility manager, he was a tech sergeant. And the two officers that were on duty, they were off duty now and they were above ground. They had been relieved. Their replacements were underground. Uh, Bill Holloman, the site cook. Uh, and of course you had, um, one of the, the, the one, uh, security response team that remained, him and his partner. So they took me in the day room and I tell when they came out to meet us, the gate slides open. I pulled in right in front of the, uh, flight security controller's office.

• 44:29Speaker 01

  And they just descended upon the vehicle. Well, we got our, got our bags out and all that stuff. And they went to the pasture sign and I said, I don't know what's wrong with Michael. I said, I can't get in to speak. And I said, we had a heck of a time getting them off his steering wheel. Nobody said anything at that point. They took him, put him, uh, put his arms over their shoulders and they took him to the back room, I think in the, in the, uh, facility manager's quarters. I don't know what they did, but that's where they took him. They took me into the day room or I walked into the day room and mind you, I'd been up the entire day before, five o'clock in the morning till we had guard mount, traveled, you know, to get out there, then stayed up all day, went all night long until this happened and, uh,

• 45:14Speaker 01

  So now it's probably somewhere around, I'm gonna say 7:15, 7:30 in the morning.

• 45:22Speaker 01

  And we had just departed Newell Lake Reservoir Dam, and I'd never been there before. I never, I never knew that place was even there. And it's a little north of November Control, and it's sitting back off the road about four and a half miles. So it sits way back up on the prairie, and I honestly had never been there before nor knew about it.

• 45:42Speaker 01

  And uh, so they started banging me with questions and what did you see? What did you do? You know, how did you do this? You communicated this? You didn't report this? You know, what was wrong with the site? Just all these things were coming at me, and I was answering every single one of them, and they, believe me, there was a bunch of questions. You just don't go missing on a, on a, on a nuclear missile site for, for five hours and not answer questions. It's a big deal.

• 46:12Jesse Michels?

  Did you get the sense when they were asking you questions that they had seen things like this before? Or like it was this completely novel thing where it's like, what the hell happened here? We have no idea. Like, we have no idea how to even, we have no pattern recognition for this.

• 46:28Speaker 01

  Uh, well, there were rumors years before I got there that something happened down toward the Badlands in the 66th area. And uh, where two security policemen were found uh, out of their vehicle. The vehicle was, you know, some distance away from them. Their weapons were distance from them in the open prairie. And they, one was found completely with no clothes on, and the other was just about like 90% uh, unclothed. Uh, and I don't know what happened to that, but there, there were always talks and rumors about things in the air or things on the back of the runway at Ellsworth, you know, B-52s uploaded bombers that are ready to go, uploaded on the alert pad, and uh,

• 47:12Speaker 01

  what did they use, F-86s at one point or a couple of times to chase these objects away? And I think there's several reports of that. Uh, one of the guys that I know, uh, who's an L-16 pilot, uh, Chris Lato, we were talking about, we were talking about that one time. Uh, but anyway.

• 47:32Speaker 01

  They questioned me up one side and down the other and uh I I I remember telling Master Sergeant Gray, I said, I can draw some things if you'd like me to and um that the question never really got, I don't know if it didn't get to him or answered to or what happened, but he just, they just kept asking questions and I and I got to the point where it was just, everything was just at one time coming from every space in my mind, questions about the whole deal. And I said, hey, I said, I gotta go to the restroom.

• 48:04Speaker 00

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• 48:33Speaker 01

  Just to get away from it for 10 seconds, I just wanted a little bit of peace, just for a few seconds. So trying to cope with what I'd just seen, lived through and experienced is this is nothing I ever had before. And I went to the restroom and I opened up the stall door, which is still there today. I went right back to it in 21 and I just went and sat on the toilet and closed the door. And you know, it was a regular stall door, doors about that high up off the floor, blue. And these, these facilities were extremely nice. I mean, you could, they were, they were not, uh, they were very well maintained and extremely nice. And I was just sitting there on that toilet, thinking about what

• 49:17Speaker 01

  I had seen and, and what had transpired. You know, the thought hit me, I didn't even strike the site. And that's the procedure that you do when you arrive at the facility that you, that's required for you have these steps that you have to follow to eliminate whatever threat there is there, but to assess the entire situation and report that back. We never reported anything back like that, you know, and we didn't, I don't even think we used the radio from moments of arrival. I really don't. I can't remember if we did. And all of a sudden, Jesse, I get this ringing in my ears. That was as if somebody struck a liberty bell right next to my head. I mean, really, I have to emphasize

• 50:01Speaker 01

  that because it was like it got my attention. I don't know if I reached up and put my hands on my ears or what. But when it happened, everything turned like lime green to me, like pea green. And I didn't, it was as if my vision was changing or some part of my visual acuity was changing. And I closed my eyes and when I did, I had this feeling I was leaving my body. Literally, I was, you know, I thought I was dying. I said, I guess this is, this, this is how you die.

• 50:40Speaker 01

  And every time I closed my eyes, I felt as if I went without going anywhere. I felt as if I kept going lower within myself. And I knew there was a clear channel to exit me through my feet. I knew there was. It was a map. There was something there and I could leave if I so chose to do so. And it scared me to death. It's literally scared me to death, man. And when I opened my eyes that last time, I saw four fuzzy feet walking by, paws, walking by the bottom of that door with a set of Cochrane military boots. Behind him, that was a dog handler and his drug dog.

• 51:21Speaker 01

  So, you know, they had gotten one, they had gotten them to come out 55 miles out from base to go through all of our stuff, make sure there's no drugs involved. And I said, man, I said, I'm glad to, I'm glad to see you because he didn't know what I just experienced. And I said, my Diddy bag is out there in a day room. He says, it's all right, Mario, we already have it. I don't know who he was. But he knew my name. I don't know if he had just been told my name or what, you know, I played a lot of tennis back then. He may have been somebody I played with, but.

• 51:52Speaker 01

  I said, I'll be out in just a minute, man. He goes, yeah, no worries, man. He says, you're all good. Just come and check on you. That's what he said. Just came in to check on you. And I said, thank you. So they they left or we're leaving and I opened up the stall door and I just went to the sink. And mind you, I still have on my long johns and my fatigue pants and shirt and, you know, same clothes I was in about 30 hours now. And I just turned that faucet on as ice cold water. And I just literally just drowned myself in water. I was just soaking wet. Because Master Sergeant Gray said something to me as I came out there. He said, what'd you do? Climb in the sink or something like that? And I and I did, I don't even know if I answered. I just said, yes, sir.

• 52:35Speaker 01

  So I I think I had a towel in my hand. And he said, well, he goes, get your stuff. He goes, we have to go, we have to go back to the SATAP building. That was our main operations building on Ellsworth. And I said, yes, sir. So I grabbed my stuff and immediately I said, well, what about Michael Johnson? He said, don't worry about him. He'll be going with Sergeant Hawkins. I said, okay.

• 52:55Speaker 01

  And I really wanted to talk to him, but immediately upon arrival at that site, we were separated right then and there. Now, I don't know what good it would have done because he wasn't coherent or wasn't answering or anything anyway.

• 53:05Jesse Michels?

  He hadn't said a word.

• 53:06Speaker 01

  Nothing. Not one word that I knew of, not one word. He hadn't said anything to me or to anybody else that was there. And I don't know how they transported him, you know, other than him telling me that Master Sergeant or Tech Sergeant Hawkins was gonna take him to the base, right? So I got my ditty bag and loaded up and

• 53:27Speaker 01

  got my weapon, everything, and off we went to Ellsworth. And it was about an hour, 10 minute ride back to Ellsworth. We went in through the back gate at Box Elder and went straight to the SATAP building. And he escorted me the entire way. Armory turned in, turned in my weapon, all that stuff. And which was normal procedure, you know.

• 53:53Speaker 01

  Went to Ralph Eastbreaker's office under escort and of course, when you are called in like that, you do a formal report in where you literally bang, knock on the door frame or whatever, even if the door's open, you knock on the door frame. And then your commander, whomever tell you can enter the room, you enter the room, go directly to his desk, you know, heels together at attention, you know, report in, you know, senior man was reporting as ordered, sir, you know. And he told me at ease, but he didn't tell me I could sit down. I never forget that. I just thought it was strange, you know, and he had to know how long I'd been up. I mean, I was, I was weakened, if I may say, I just felt really weakened in a, in a different state.

• 54:36Speaker 01

  Not knowing what I experienced. I was still wet from an hour and 15 minutes ago from the sink, you know. So it was really strange. And

• 54:46Speaker 01

  he asked me some questions and he said, I remember him saying, "Sounds as if you've had an interesting evening or night," or something like that. And I said, "Yes, sir." And I looked to my left, then there's, there's a total of five people in that room. There's the deputy base commander, who I don't remember his name. But next to him was a man in a gray tweed suit with a hat, and the hat was under his arm. Then there was a captain, Jack Reed, OSI. Next to him was this new OSI guy named Rick Doty.

• 55:25Jesse Michels?

  Interesting.

• 55:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:27Jesse Michels?

  So, and do you have any speculation as to who the guy in the gray tweed suit was?

• 55:31Speaker 01

  I was never introduced to him nor told his name. And I only found out, Jack Reed was a captain in OSI. He was the lead OSI officer on Ellsworth at that time. And

• 55:46Speaker 01

  Through an email that Rick Doty sent me after about five years of trying to trying to get him to answer my emails or talk to me. Because the first time I saw him was on Ancient Aliens and I said, I know that guy. He was at my debrief.

• 55:59Speaker 04

  I was a counterintelligence officer for the Air Force Office of Special Investigation.

• 56:04Speaker 02

  I was personally fascinated by the fact that Richard Doty had been involved in the aftermath of Mario's case. I knew about Doty because of a great book called Project Beta by Greg Bishop. Doty was an Air Force counterintelligence agent, basically tasked with performing a psychological operation on an innocent researcher named Paul Benowitz, who had seen an exotic craft at Kirtland Air Force Base. Doty convinced Benowitz that he was in touch with aliens, even receiving signals on his computer. This eventually drove Benowitz into psychiatric hospitalization. So the fact that Doty was part of Mario's debrief is fascinating, seems very important, and requires follow-up by some brave souls.

• 56:44Speaker 01

  And up to that point, I had nobody.

• 56:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:46Speaker 01

  I'd had nobody that could say, yeah, they were there or what have you. You know, what have you. I tried running down my old flight chief and assistant flight chief, but with no success or anybody else. And especially Michael Johnson, some money has been spent trying to locate Michael Johnson. We've looked in hospitals, we've looked in...

• 57:03Speaker 02

  Can't find him anywhere.

• 57:04Speaker 01

  No, sir. And I reported at the Arrow in March of 23, I think, when I spoke with them.

• 57:10Speaker 02

  Did Arrow follow up at all?

• 57:12Speaker 01

  I don't know. They never got back with me. Four hours and 19 minutes, I spoke with them.

• 57:17Speaker 02

  That's crazy.

• 57:18Speaker 01

  Yeah. And they said I would get a copy of everything which had been, you know, talked about. They say they don't record it. How do you, how do you, how do you send somebody a copy without recording something? Come on.

• 57:29Speaker 02

  That's ridiculous.

• 57:30Speaker 01

  Can you write that fast?

• 57:31Speaker 02

  No, but I mean, it's also like...

• 57:33Speaker 01

  And there's not, there's more than one person sitting there also.

• 57:36Speaker 02

  Oh, my God. But you're, I mean, you're the government agency tasked for investigating UFOs and you don't record your conversation?

• 57:43Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 57:43Speaker 02

  It's absolutely absurd.

• 57:44Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then two weeks later is when Kirkpatrick went on and said there was no substantial evidence.

• 57:50Jesse Michels?

  Can you contact Michael Johnson's family?

• 57:52Speaker 01

  I don't have any way, I don't have any, any numbers or anything. He said he was from Chicago, Illinois. Believe me, every resource, including other law enforcement officers that I know, today's technology have not located him yet. Neither has Arrow.

• 58:05Jesse Michels?

  So what, what was your interaction with Doty?

• 58:07Speaker 01

  Nothing, not one thing. We never spoke or anything like that. He was directly reporting to Captain Jack Reed next to him.

• 58:16Jesse Michels?

  Okay, so that's fascinating, right? That this guy who's clearly this disinfo agent, you know, at least in the context of Benowitz, is showing up seven years earlier, eight years earlier in your case. And you don't know why.

• 58:29Speaker 01

  He was brand new. He was brand new then. So as a person that's very high in this whole thing, said, those were the days that when he was probably honestly not

• 58:45Speaker 01

  changed in any way, perhaps. I just want to say that the right way. Cause we, you know, we, I email him once in a while. And he'll answer me back, whereas it took me about five years to get him to even do that. And then we got to be on a, a cast together.

• 59:02Jesse Michels?

  So real quick, just context, he now has come out saying he's reformed and he apologizes for, you know, his malpractice in the past. A lot of people are suspicious of that reform. It does feel a little bit sometimes to me like he's flooding the zone with this info. Like he'll talk about, you know, six alien races.

• 59:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:21Jesse Michels?

  And it just seems extremely speculative and not based on any sort of evidence.

• 59:25Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 59:25Jesse Michels?

  Very weird.

• 59:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, it's, uh, it's more than I know how to swallow. I only know that, uh, what I witnessed is my incident. And, uh,

• 59:35Speaker 01

  anybody that I could get that's, you know, that was there, have some idea of it, or that I knew, I've done everything that I can to try and locate them. And he is the only person so far that I have found alive. And mind you, I'm 69 and I think he's older than I am. I think, I think that's what he told me. That he was in his seventies and I have no idea. I mean, when I saw that thing the other day about him saying he was, it was from, uh, 78 to 88. When he was an OSI, really, really bothered me. And that was just last week that I saw that. And, uh, I'll try to find the program again and I'll send you something about it.

• 1:00:11Jesse Michels?

  Did you have any biological after effects after you had this experience?

• 1:00:16Speaker 01

  Well, I, uh,

• 1:00:18Speaker 01

  If you want me to, I'll, I'll explain that because I get sent over to the flight surgeon's office after this entire debriefing takes place and questions and like you wouldn't believe from my commander. And I just relayed everything that I just told you with the exception of what I saw or what I thought I saw at the side window of my vehicle. Had I said that I saw these beings,

• 1:00:50Speaker 01

  they would have immediately removed me from the PRP, personal reliability program. I'd have lost my clearance. I'd have lost my job. I'd have never been in the missile field again. And I was newlywed at the time. And I needed a job. And I loved what I was doing. I just had no, no idea that something like this could even happen.

• 1:01:08Jesse Michels?

  So did you lie about what happened to you?

• 1:01:10Speaker 01

  No, I did not lie. I just simply did not tell them what I saw.

• 1:01:13Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:14Speaker 01

  Out that side window.

• 1:01:15Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:15Speaker 01

  I told them everything else, the size of the craft, you know, and, and how we came upon it and flipping the facility lights at it and every, I told them the entire story up to the point where what was out that window, I never said a word about.

• 1:01:31Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:32Speaker 01

  So I had to write that in the report also, but that was after about an hour and a half, almost two hours of this debriefing in the commander's office. And once that was done, he said, well, we're going to have the flight surgeon take a look at you. And I said, yes, sir. Okay. So they loaded me up in his staff car and took me over to medical. And I'd never been in a flight surgeon's office before. Thinking, oh, boy, well, you know, what's, what's this going to be? And I'm still wet. Like I said, I'm still damp from the water. The basin bath, I call it. And

• 1:02:07Speaker 01

  I stripped down to my underwear and my, and my, and a T-shirt or something. And there was a nurse in the room and there were two flight surgeons. And that was the time and when they had these, uh, these gray like separating walls that were about five or six feet high with this little waving glass at the top of it. So if you walked in another room over there, you could see heads, but you couldn't see what was going on. That used to be like a big, like a room divider or something. And that was important because the guys from OSI, they were on the other side of that, of that wall, of that, that panel. And I knew they were there.

• 1:02:42Speaker 01

  And as the doctors, you know, started, you know, asking me questions, uh, it was one tall and one short. Uh, they tested my ears, eyes, nose, throat, looked at my joints, my hands, my fingers, you know, just literally everywhere. And then they'd like walk over a few feet away and they'd talk a little bit and I couldn't quite hear what they were saying and a nurse was just over to my right and uh, came back and the, one of them grabbed a, you know, a latex glove and he puts it on his hand and I just thought, there's a nurse in here and then he snapped that thing, you know, I just thought, oh, you know, really I did, I thought, oh man, you know,

• 1:03:25Speaker 01

  I'm looking forward to this. And uh, he goes, uh, everyone would, you mind if I take a look at your gums? And uh, that was the, that was farthest from my mind of anything in that room that day. And I said, excuse me, he goes, yeah, I need, I need to look at your gums, your teeth.

• 1:03:45Speaker 01

  Uh, uh, that was better than the alternative. I said, sure. Okay. So, uh, I just sat right there and he just opened my mouth and he just took his, his index finger and his thumb and he just went all the way around my gums and my teeth squeezing tops and bottoms. And I mean, really took his time and spent time up here in the front, under my tongue, just pressing down like on the bottom, like the floor of your jawbone or something. And uh, took him a couple of minutes and believe me, if somebody puts their fingers in your mouth for a couple of minutes, it's strange feeling. You know, it's not something that you, that you want to repeat or have repeated.

• 1:04:22Jesse Michels?

  Why do you think you checked that?

• 1:04:24Speaker 01

  I have no idea. I have honestly no idea. And when he stopped, he popped the glove off, he says, um, you know, you have a couple of burns on your body, right? And I said, excuse me? He goes, yeah, above your right eye and on the back of your right hand. Well, I didn't have a glove on this hand. And then my beret came down like this, you know, as my beret was on my head and it burned me right above my eyebrow right there. Now I did have those air force glasses on. And I think that's why it had a strange curve in it and that, in that little sunburn. But he says, we need to take a skin sample. And I said, oh.

• 1:05:00Speaker 01

  Okay, and they pulled out, the nurse had this little tray with two types of, or two little stainless cylinders on it with cork tops on it. And I guess the tool was inside the little cylinder thing. He popped that off, he went up here and he just clipped a piece of skin off there and he took the whole tool and he stuck it right down in there, put a cork on it, laid it on that tray. I felt it, you know, didn't feel like much, just a little clip, I mean, like clipping a nail or something, you know. And then he did it on the back of my hand, once over here and once right over here. Same tool, I don't know if they could pick up two different pieces of flesh, but that's why he used the same tool, put it in the other one, corked it and did that, and they walked over for

• 1:05:44Speaker 01

  a second and talked a few more moments. And then he turned around and said, uh, thank you, you know, but, uh, you know, you're done, you know, you can go back over to the commander's office now, you can get dressed. I said, yes, sir, thank you. Okay. So when I looked back up, OSI had, they had, they had gone. So there was a driver in the, in the, in a Colonel Spreaker's vehicle, he was waiting on me. When I got dressed and went back out there, I got in the vehicle and we straight back to Colonel Spreaker's office where OSI was there. So Colonel Spreaker asked some more, and every time I would ask about Michael Johnson, they tell, they kept telling me, don't worry about Michael Johnson, he's

• 1:06:27Speaker 01

  fine. He's fine. Really bothered me.

• 1:06:31Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:32Speaker 01

  It just, I just.

• 1:06:33Jesse Michels?

  It almost sounds like they're covering for something.

• 1:06:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. He, don't worry about Michael Johnson, he is fine. And, uh, oh, when I did go back to Colonel Spreaker's office, again, I had to go and do a formal report in, again, and,

• 1:06:50Speaker 01

  Do everything I was told. Then he told me I could sit down in front of him, which I did. And then the, uh, Captain Jack Reed walked over to his desk, Colonel Spreaker's desk, and handed him paperwork. And, uh, at the same time, Colonel Spreaker handed me these reporting forms. I don't know what, I don't know the number, but he handed me these, he handed me these forms. He said, I need you to write down every single thing that happened on that site tonight, from the time you got this alarm to the completion, you know? And I went, oh, I mean, I, I print very well and I'm pretty detailed and I'll be happy to do that. Again, I omitted what I saw out my right window. So I never got

• 1:07:34Speaker 01

  a copy of that. They would not let me have a copy of that. And, um, which I found kinda odd, cause anytime, any other time, you know, you get Article 15 or something, you get a copy of it, you know, something bad that you've done. And again, I felt as if I'd done something incorrect or wrong, cause I knew I didn't strike that site. And that seemed to be a big question is why didn't you strike this site?

• 1:07:54Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 1:07:55Speaker 01

  Uh, of course, they had, so they had to have somebody address that alarm. I don't know who or how, but they did. But then Jack Reed walked over and handed him this other piece of paper as he was putting mine down. And it was, uh, like a non-disclosure agreement, but I don't even think they had that terminology then. I just think it was something that I was told, for one, this was a, this was now a classified incident.

• 1:08:20Jesse Michels?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:08:20Speaker 01

  That's what I was told and I was agreeing to that. And that I would not speak to any type of, uh, they didn't even use the word social media, it was like media people at any time. If anybody comes into the missile field, you don't talk to anyone, period. You don't even tell your wife. And now she thought it was odd because I should have been gone, come back in the morning of the fourth day. I had just departed the day before. And this happened that night. And then I, I wasn't allowed to call her till about three o'clock when everything was said and done. And I agreed to that agreement. So Rick Doty's job, what he later said, when I questioned him about it, was he was there.

• 1:09:06Speaker 01

  He was brought in to go over, sent over to the flight surgeon's office to pick up our medical records. Mine and Michael Johnson's. Now, I had no idea Michael Johnson was even over there, if he was truly there or not. I'm really not sure. I never saw him. I didn't see Michael again, as I said, for about 18 days. But, uh, he was there to study.

• 1:09:30Jesse Michels?

  So you did see Michael 18 days later?

• 1:09:32Speaker 01

  Yeah. He, he was there to pick up just our medical records and bring them back to his officer, which I find, I just find indifference with that, you know? There had to be something said about what just happened. I mean, for one, it was an incident of security, being that we didn't do what we were supposed to do, and we had five hours of missing time. They have to account to that for somebody. Somebody higher than that base commander, or deputy base commander, and that, and that squadron commander, they had to address somebody, say, right, Pat, or wherever. They have, they have to. Up channel reporting has to take place, that incident. Um,

• 1:10:14Speaker 01

  so I was able to call her at about 3 o'clock, and she picked me up, and she sees me, I got a Band-Aid up here, and I got one on the back of my hand. What happened? I can't tell her. And I, and I had to stick with that. And I, I said, just something happened, and I said, my partner and I, we were brought back in, you know, to, well, I'll go back out. So I got extra days off, we'll go back out on next rotation, but I never went back to the wingman control. He sent me to Kilo Control, under the scrutiny of my flight chief and assistant flight chief, and the OIC, which was a lieutenant, over all the missile, over everything out there in that sector. Um, and he had a, he had a, not a name, but he had a, um, a terminology, not a flight chief, but an officer in charge, uh, of flight operations, I'm not sure.

• 1:10:58Speaker 01

  And he stayed there, uh, at Kilo Control. And of course, I was a member then, never a team leader again, until the day I, nine months later, I got my assignment to go to Korea. But, getting back to that, about two and a half, three weeks later, we're living in, it's called Haynes Way Apartments, they're still there today, in Rapid City. I get this.

• 1:11:26Speaker 01

  Bar none, kid you not, when that knock came with that door, I knew it was Michael Johnson.

• 1:11:32Speaker 01

  I knew it was that man and I'd never met him or had him in any kind of a, other than sitting in the cab of that truck, which I know he only said like three words to me, whatever, man, and outside too, or I don't know what it is. And that was back at the site when I was flashing the lights at it. That's all he'd ever said to me. Other than the fact that in the day room or on the way out on a bus, he said he was from Chicago, Illinois. Uh, he's, he was not married and he lived in the barracks. I knew that.

• 1:11:58Speaker 01

  He knocks on my door open. I said, Michael, how you doing, man? I said, come on in here. We gotta talk, you know? Band-aids are off, had no more marks. It was sunburned kind of thing. It was more marked what he did, what he took off than there was when the skin healed. So, which was nothing. I'm old Tampa boy, so I'm used to sunburn, you know? I look like this in the summertime. But, um, he came in and I said, I introduced him to my wife and I said, all right, this is what we're gonna do. And he looked at me and I said, I want you to draw what you saw and I'm gonna draw what I saw. And I hadn't drawn anything up to that time other than pyramids and trying to find out what the hell a pyramid, what it is, what it does and what's supposed to be or why.

• 1:12:40Jesse Michels?

  Real quick, before you say what you both draw, was he in a normal state again? He was, he was talking, he was cool and like, okay.

• 1:12:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, he was, he was cool. He was still reserved, but he was cool.

• 1:12:51Jesse Michels?

  Uh huh.

• 1:12:52Speaker 01

  You know, because we didn't really know each other that well.

• 1:12:54Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, sure.

• 1:12:55Speaker 01

  And, uh,

• 1:12:58Speaker 01

  so he comes in and he meets my wife and I think I put him at the kitchen table. We had a round kitchen table and I sat at the coffee table on the couch and I started drawing, you know, the craft, what I saw, you know, and we, we talked about, you know, what we heard, what I heard.

• 1:13:17Speaker 01

  Everything.

• 1:13:20Speaker 01

  He saw the craft. He saw the black sphere in front of the vehicle, jumping up and down. He smelled the smell. He heard, do not fear. He heard all of that and saw every bit of it, but couldn't do nothing about it. It was as if he was just literally turned off and couldn't respond to anything. He felt everything. I ran that finger in his ear that deep. I felt really bad about that, but I just wanted him to know that I was trying, I was checking. He knew that I was checking him for what, you know, what was going on, you know? But he couldn't do nothing about it. He couldn't undo himself or just move.

• 1:13:59Jesse Michels?

  So how'd you guys leave it? So did you draw, you drew, you drew very similar things?

• 1:14:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, we drew the exact same pictures and everything.

• 1:14:05Jesse Michels?

  Can we see the pictures and show the audience?

• 1:14:07Speaker 01

  Well, I, I, I do have the drawings. Yeah, I don't have them from him, but I've got my rendition of them.

• 1:14:22Jesse Michels?

  That's remarkable. And then after that, what happens between you and Michael?

• 1:14:26Speaker 01

  We were there an hour, hour and a half.

• 1:14:27Jesse Michels?

  And it was a good, good.

• 1:14:28Speaker 01

  And it was good vibes all the way through. He had some tea or something and we talked some more. We said, hey, well, we need to get together again and chat some more, you know? And he said, yeah, I agree with that. That was the last time I ever saw him.

• 1:14:40Jesse Michels?

  You couldn't get in touch after that? Did you try?

• 1:14:42Speaker 01

  No, yeah, yeah. I don't know where he went. I don't know what happened to him. I don't know if he was sent somewhere else. It wasn't eight months later. Well, it was about seven months, six months later, I got promoted to an NCO, non-commissioned officer, buck sergeant. So I know he had to go, he, he outranked me by two months. So he had to be upgraded also or promoted to an NCO. And.

• 1:15:06Jesse Michels?

  Have you tried looking up his records?

• 1:15:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, everything, anything and everything.

• 1:15:10Jesse Michels?

  You can't find anything?

• 1:15:11Speaker 01

  I can't find a damn thing.

• 1:15:12Jesse Michels?

  Do you think the guy in the gray tweed suit? You know, I think Bob Jacobs talked about two guys in gray tweed suits.

• 1:15:18Speaker 01

  I think he was a GS, government service employee.

• 1:15:20Jesse Michels?

  Okay. And so he was probably the.

• 1:15:23Speaker 01

  Bob and I talked about that too.

• 1:15:24Jesse Michels?

  So he was probably the highest ranking guy in the room.

• 1:15:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, I don't know. I mean, for GS service, perhaps.

• 1:15:32Speaker 01

  But Colonel Spraker was the highest ranking in that room, and I don't remember the rank of the deputy base commander.

• 1:15:38Jesse Michels?

  If you have 170, you know, people seeing a thing around nuclear bases and they're all told to sign non-disclosures after they see a thing, what do you think the real number is, given how many thousands of people have worked at nuclear bases, you know, in the 70-year-plus American nuclear program history? You think it's over 1,000?

• 1:15:59Speaker 01

  It has to be. I would say that anybody even today where they're still active, you know, Ellsworth has been decommissioned on the missile side. I think that was in 1992. And the only missile that ever flew out of the ground in the Minuteman program was at November 2, where I was located, not during my time, but in the 60s. And I believe it flew for five seconds and was detonated, you know, dummy warhead, you know, they just, they wanted to make sure that it would launch out of the silo, that's all. Mind's eye view from every one of those sites are standalone sites. Those missiles are standalone with that launch control facility.

• 1:16:39Speaker 01

  So in each launch control facility, you've got 10 1.2-megaton missile systems sitting in the ground all around you. I mean, up to miles away from you. As I said, you know, November 5 was the closest launch facility to November control. If you had the technology to shut off one missile or to alarm one missile, would you not know that that's the shortest response time? And this is really reaching, but why didn't they set off November 10 or November 9 up by Castle Rock? Or why didn't, you know, why was it they didn't have more time to spare or what? They just set off November 5 and knew we were coming. I literally, I really do think that.

• 1:17:23Speaker 01

  I mean, I don't think it was, they knew. I think they know, they can see the power grid under the ground because everything out there is underground. Everything. That's why they, that's how they keep power on in the wintertime. They built underground all these years.

• 1:17:35Jesse Michels?

  Also, the, the response on the human side for you feels oddly routine. If that were like the first or only incident that had ever happened, you'd think that, you know, the, the superior superiors would be freaked out, right? Like it's like you have nuclear missile silos, like,

• 1:17:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:53Jesse Michels?

  That's, it's, it's, it's our, you know, top of the food chain when it comes to American defense.

• 1:17:58Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:17:59Jesse Michels?

  And offense.

• 1:17:59Speaker 01

  Or so we think.

• 1:18:00Jesse Michels?

  Or so.

• 1:18:01Speaker 01

  There are other variations, and I think they in turn gauge our overall knowledge on splitting the atom.

• 1:18:07Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:08Speaker 01

  And what's in those two hemishells, what source we're using, where it's, no matter if it's plutonium, it's uranium or what it is. And I worked at those facilities too. I was with US DOE for quite some time also as a security inspector. So I've been through a lot of these laboratories. I've been to Los Alamos, Sandia, Oak Ridge National Laboratory, the Y12 facility, Oak Ridge Gases Diffusion Facility, and General Electric Neutron Devices where triggering mechanisms were built, RTGs. So.

• 1:18:37Jesse Michels?

  Where, where, where were you at G? Chenectiki, New York?

• 1:18:40Speaker 01

  No, Largo, Florida.

• 1:18:41Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 1:18:42Speaker 01

  That was their DOE facility, which is now decommissioned. They don't do it any longer. They made the triggering device there that, that uh, is used that you can see all night.

• 1:18:50Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, it's clear whatever's going on on the UFO side is very interested in not only nuclear weapons, but it seems like nuclear energy.

• 1:18:59Speaker 01

  Right. Anything in which we're using atom for, but I honestly think

• 1:19:03Jesse Michels?

  Yes.

• 1:19:03Speaker 01

  that they gauge our intelligence on that in some way. And that's why they're so closely scrutinized. The other thing that's funny, I think they have a sense of humor. And the reason I think that is when you get all these sites that are shut down and everybody scrambles together, all offline and everything, like what happened to Robert Salas, for instance.

• 1:19:21Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:21Speaker 01

  And, and his commander.

• 1:19:22Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:24Speaker 01

  The flip side of that is when one of these sites alarm and start its countdown as it's, it's gonna launch.

• 1:19:31Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:31Speaker 01

  So the response to that, once you're dispatched, if, if the launch crew wants to dispatch you, if they're really worried, because they have an override also that they can do something with, and I don't know exactly how that works. But. They're dispatch you to the site with your F-150 Ford pickup truck and all your goodies. You got your Diddy bag, your weapon, your stuff. You're ready for to be out there for two weeks if you have to. Every time you leave, you can stay out in that missile field for a very long time. Period.

• 1:20:04Speaker 01

  The missile is counting itself down. It's gonna launch.

• 1:20:10Speaker 01

  You take and you go to the site, you open up the gates, you drive your vehicle right up on top of the blast door, which is at ground level, right on top of an octagon shaped nine ton door, and sit right on top of that site, right on top of that blast door, put your vehicle in neutral. If you can find a rock big enough, chalk both tires. Just chalk one front, one back so it don't roll. If there's a little bit of lean to one of the, one of the doors or something. That's what we were told. Grab your stuff, get off that site and set up a one mile ECP entry control point and wait for further orders.

• 1:20:47Speaker 00

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• 1:21:16Speaker 01

  In hopes that if this thing cannot be stopped or overridden, when that, when that blast door blows out from underneath that vehicle, it's gonna fall down on top of that, on top of that rocket. And all it's in hopes to do is to damage it to offset its guidance control so it'll just go off aimlessly like a scud and crash. That's what it, that's what they do. And get down to 10 or 15 seconds and it stops, then everything's normal again.

• 1:21:44Jesse Michels?

  Crazy.

• 1:21:45Speaker 01

  And people rolling up on these sites have sometimes seen those crafts and they blow away. And then that happens, you know? So I would venture to say that there were 800 security policemen at Ellsworth Air Force Base while I was there.

• 1:22:00Speaker 01

  That's standard configuration. That's not an operational readiness inspection or anything like that. They were just normally 800 or right there about security policemen, law enforcement and/or security.

• 1:22:13Speaker 01

  Anybody that worked in that missile field, I would say, I would say one out of every four has probably seen something in the night sky because everybody works rotating shifts. Whether they report it or tell their partner about it is up to them. But I'd venture to say it's that frequent.

• 1:22:30Jesse Michels?

  That's why.

• 1:22:30Speaker 01

  And that's just at Ellsworth. That doesn't include Minot. That doesn't include a.

• 1:22:37Jesse Michels?

  Malmstrom.

• 1:22:37Speaker 01

  Malmstrom or F E Warren in Wyoming.

• 1:22:40Jesse Michels?

  Yep.

• 1:22:41Speaker 01

  I've been told or asked just recently if I'd appear before Congress.

• 1:22:46Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:47Speaker 01

  And I, and I would, I would appear before Congress.

• 1:22:49Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:50Speaker 01

  And I know that's pretty hair raising for a lot of people, but when they get all the scientists and all the pilots.

• 1:23:01Speaker 01

  And everything else out of the way with these huge credentials, I was just a security policeman at 23 years of age. I have a high school education, have some college. I've been mostly technical schools all my life and I really try to read a lot and do a lot of things to educate myself further. It just didn't work out for me being able to do the things, you know, going to college and so forth. When they're done with all of that and they want a real up close and personal account, then they got to come to me sooner or later. And you don't have to put that in it in this, but you know, that's what somebody up there told me.

• 1:23:42Speaker 01

  He said, eventually they got to hear somebody that's had a up close and personal time with these things. So being that I was on duty, I was a prime candidate for that as I've been told. And I wish I had more witnesses. I wish there were people I could just pull up out of nowhere, you know, that were there. But you know, there's just so much time has passed, you know, we've been through so much with COVID and everything else. I don't know.

• 1:24:08Jesse Michels?

  What about, what about the guy you said you were buddies with where you ran in and you started signaling what, what you thought was a B 52 at the time, what was his name?

• 1:24:18Speaker 01

  Bill Holloman.

• 1:24:18Jesse Michels?

  Bill Holloman. Are you still in touch with Bill?

• 1:24:20Speaker 01

  Well, I know it's William, William, something Holloman. We call him Bill.

• 1:24:24Jesse Michels?

  Uh huh.

• 1:24:25Speaker 01

  And he was from North Carolina. I have searched, how many names are the last name of Holloman? I don't know. And that's the only way I've even.

• 1:24:31Jesse Michels?

  But have, did you even speak to him one on one after that being like, remember when we signaled the thing?

• 1:24:37Speaker 01

  I was never, I never went back to November control. They sent me to Kilo Control. They completely separated us. I never saw Michael Johnson again until about three weeks later.

• 1:24:48Jesse Michels?

  So they just separated you? And how far is Kilo Control from November?

• 1:24:51Speaker 01

  Well, honestly, it's a sister flight, but it's where the supervision hang their hat at nights instead of us being at November Control or any of the, or Oscar Flight, or any of the other flights where you don't have the supervision of a flight chief and assistant flight chief.

• 1:25:09Speaker 01

  You do it Kilo. So they have a way of monitoring, watching every single thing that you do. And also the OIC.

• 1:25:16Jesse Michels?

  And so you just never saw Bill again?

• 1:25:19Speaker 01

  Uh, no, maybe at guard mount, once or twice. Hey, Bill, that kind of thing, just passing.

• 1:25:24Jesse Michels?

  You ever say, hey, Bill, you know, what about?

• 1:25:26Speaker 01

  I wanted to, but it never really presented itself. And there were a couple of other guys there, even that Sergeant Garza. Uh, I'd love to have spoken with him again because, uh, and he was from Texas. I remember that. We talked about it and cause I was just that close born in Port Arthur, but I was born in Virginia.

• 1:25:44Jesse Michels?

  Uh huh.

• 1:25:44Speaker 01

  And my parents, they moved to, uh, to Port Arthur. My dad could ship in and out of there.

• 1:25:50Jesse Michels?

  And you received a hypnotic regression about all of this, right?

• 1:25:53Speaker 01

  I did. I certainly did. Uh, Bob Upton did my first one and Yvonne Smith did my second one.

• 1:25:59Jesse Michels?

  What came out?

• 1:25:59Speaker 01

  Uh, well, the, the, uh,

• 1:26:05Speaker 01

  the inside of the craft.

• 1:26:07Jesse Michels?

  What was that like?

• 1:26:09Speaker 01

  I, I've got some drawings of it, but what I saw or what I experienced in my mind, uh, was not all pleasant.

• 1:26:24Speaker 01

  And these, these were the, the one that was messing with me was a very tall one that was doing the, you know, one thing to me. Whereas in regression number two, I found out that Michael was laying opposite to me. And there was one of the short ones or small ones between us both.

• 1:26:48Speaker 01

  And, uh, he was facing one direction. I was facing the opposite direction, kind of like, like that would be.

• 1:26:56Speaker 01

  And, uh,

• 1:26:57Jesse Michels?

  What were they doing? Were they doing, taking samples or?

• 1:27:00Speaker 01

  Well, the tall one did something to my wrist and I kept telling him how it hurt me and he, and, uh, he told me he said something, you know.

• 1:27:09Speaker 01

  We don't hurt you or something like that. I don't remember. I'd have to go back and listen to it again. I don't even listen to my first regression session for a year. I was so afraid of what I would hear or what I would find out or what I would see. In the actual incident itself, that when I sat down from inside that window, I want you to know that the words "do not fear"

• 1:27:36Speaker 01

  travel through my body like vibration,

• 1:27:40Speaker 01

  like a hiss.

• 1:27:43Jesse Michels?

  A telepathic.

• 1:27:44Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 1:27:45Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:46Speaker 01

  But I kept hearing over and over, "do not fear, do not fear, do not fear." And...

• 1:27:54Jesse Michels?

  Was it a good vibe or bad as far as your sense of that?

• 1:27:58Speaker 01

  It was complete. It was as if, you know, when somebody says something, you'll say, "What?" or "Huh?" There's none of that. There's no misinterpretation of someone speaking to you. You know exactly what's being said to you.

• 1:28:12Jesse Michels?

  Was there sort of a sense of their intention as positive or negative? Or was it...

• 1:28:18Speaker 01

  Assuring, assuring, I think. "No matter what you see visually, do not fear." And that's what we seem to have the hardest problem with is what we're seeing visually.

• 1:28:31Jesse Michels?

  If you had kind of a best guess, do you think they had positive intentions or negative?

• 1:28:35Speaker 01

  I think they had positive.

• 1:28:36Jesse Michels?

  What do you think?

• 1:28:37Speaker 01

  But they fulfill their mission, whatever that mission is. Whether it's to obtain DNA material or what have you, or some kind of a programming or... I don't know. Whatever they want to do, they're gonna do.

• 1:28:50Jesse Michels?

  Outside of like the obvious, which is you experienced this kind of crazy paranormal disruption in your life, did this kind of, was this an inflection point or did it change your life in a dramatic way afterwards?

• 1:29:02Speaker 01

  Oh, it did.

• 1:29:02Jesse Michels?

  How so?

• 1:29:04Speaker 01

  I had to find out everything about archaeology and pyramids.

• 1:29:07Jesse Michels?

  Hmm. And so that was just something that it almost felt like it was installed inside of you or downloaded.

• 1:29:14Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:29:15Jesse Michels?

  And why?

• 1:29:16Speaker 01

  Still today.

• 1:29:17Jesse Michels?

  Why do you think you became so interested in that?

• 1:29:19Speaker 01

  I have no idea.

• 1:29:20Jesse Michels?

  Do you know that the Air Force paid for this movie called Stargate? Have you ever seen this movie?

• 1:29:25Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 1:29:26Jesse Michels?

  So, you know, there's a Stargate in the pyramid. It's sort of this portal, this like time travel machine. Do you think that might be related to, you know, why you're so interested in pyramids?

• 1:29:40Speaker 01

  I think they were power generators and whatever they generated power to was worldwide. And I think it was at a time in which we have been completely blacked out from.

• 1:29:50Jesse Michels?

  Have you heard of Christopher Dunn?

• 1:29:52Speaker 01

  I have. Yes, an engineer. Yes, I have.

• 1:29:55Jesse Michels?

  What do you think of his theory?

• 1:29:56Speaker 01

  I think his theory is absolutely correct. Robert Shock, I think absolutely. I think the erosion marks on that great Sphinx and everything else around it.

• 1:30:07Jesse Michels?

  Can you, can you recapitulate or can you, yeah, retell Christopher Dunn theory just for the audience?

• 1:30:13Speaker 01

  Well, the, the archaeological tools in which was used to create and, and carve or cut this granite are not in the archaeological array of tools of copper and wooden chisels today in some form of, of advanced mathematics was used in order to create what they did. And even just the placement of the pyramid, Great Pyramid itself, I mean, the entire plateau is the only place it can support that weight. And the entire plateau was built before the pyramids were placed on top of it. So who had that technology and what was used? Who, who mandated that?

• 1:30:56Speaker 01

  What pharaoh woke up one morning after his dates and whatever else he ate and said, ah, let's build that plateau. So it can hold, uh, how many millions of pounds does this thing weigh? I have no idea right now, but I mean, 750 feet from edge to from corner to corner and what 432 feet high. Is that right?

• 1:31:18Speaker 01

  On thirteen acres. I mean, how can that be?

• 1:31:22Jesse Michels?

  Do you think the beings you experienced are aliens? Or do you think they're humans? Or what exactly did the alien, what exactly did the entities you encountered look like?

• 1:31:33Speaker 01

  Oh, they look like grays. They look like the small grays, but the one behind them, I guess you would classify him as a tall gray. On Whitley Strieber's book Communion, of course, the first time I saw that picture, I froze in my, I froze in my, in my stride. And I had to have that book and Barnes and Noble or wherever it was at the time when it came out. And I literally, before I opened the first, to the first page, I literally just sat and stared at that picture for many hours before I ever even read his book.

• 1:32:06Jesse Michels?

  Do you think that there, there's actually a line from Communion by Whitley Strieber where it's like this weird joke, you know? He actually, I think he or his wife comments on how ugly the aliens are. And the alien turns back and he goes, someday soon, my dear, you'll look like us. So it's this implication that actually we're kind of turning into these beings.

• 1:32:26Speaker 01

  In 10,000 years, will we have these smaller appendages, our little fingers, our little toes?

• 1:32:32Speaker 01

  How will our bodies be at that particular point in time? You know, how will our diets change? How will light change? How will radiation that affects our atmosphere today, how will it change in the future? How will it change us completely as we become a spacefaring civilization? And we will be in, you know, whatever, whenever that could take place, we, we will do that. Uh, how will that change us without the gravity that we, that we undergo today? And, and the things in which we live with today, you know, radio waves, 5G, everything has an effect on you.

• 1:33:05Jesse Michels?

  So you think these beings could be us from the future?

• 1:33:09Speaker 01

  No, I don't think they are. I don't think we're going to be that, I don't think we're that lucky.

• 1:33:13Jesse Michels?

  So what do you think they are? Do you think they're from another dimension or?

• 1:33:17Speaker 01

  They could be. I mean, the, the technology is wide open. Anything you can imagine probably is.

• 1:33:22Jesse Michels?

  What was the craft like? So you're, you're in the inside of this thing. What did it look like?

• 1:33:28Speaker 01

  A beehive.

• 1:33:30Jesse Michels?

  Beehive?

• 1:33:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:31Jesse Michels?

  How so?

• 1:33:32Speaker 01

  Well, there were, uh, from my looking around as I did in that playground, like I always try to take a, a mental picture or something.

• 1:33:44Speaker 01

  They were just multi-levels with with all these small grays everywhere. Going to and fro and doing whatever they were doing. I just got to look for a moment. And I was following one and even the floor and the boards around the bottom of the floor. Uh. Had energy was everything emanated power in some way. Uh. The walls.

• 1:34:09Jesse Michels?

  Was there humming associated?

• 1:34:10Speaker 01

  Not that I can remember.

• 1:34:12Jesse Michels?

  And it almost felt like the tall gray was maybe in charge of these smaller grays.

• 1:34:16Speaker 01

  Absolutely. In that room. Another thing too, P, uh, I was not on a table. I was, uh, from my memory, I was on some type of a, uh.

• 1:34:32Speaker 01

  I was like wrapped in a triangular kind of, uh, beam or something that was body length. About four foot in the air.

• 1:34:42Speaker 01

  And, uh, as like a, a, a strange light would, not a strange light.

• 1:34:51Speaker 01

  It's even hard to describe, but it was as if I was inserted in something that was some type of a force field or some kind of a, a holding field that they could move you around in. Like a gurney without wheels, a table without a back or, or wheels or legs attached to it. Hmm. And I felt as if, you know, they, when they reached in or when he lifted my arm up, lifted me up right here on my wrist. You know, it exited that, that pyramidal field or whatever it was above me. And it was in his atmosphere at that time. Uh. In my, in hypnosis, that's what I saw.

• 1:35:35Speaker 01

  The other thing was, this is most interesting. I, uh. I'm taken to a room when I first get there. I'm taken into this room, if you can call it a room, everything's generated, everything's powered. There's power on every wall, every nook and cranny. We're no buttons or, or, or places to insert a tape or anything like that, but the whole place is like, is powered. And there were all these old things like a sewing machine table with a singer sewing machine on it. Those old 50's style lamps that went from the floor to the ceiling and had bulbs sticking off of them like that. TV and a cabinet.

• 1:36:18Jesse Michels?

  It was like an antique shop for future.

• 1:36:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, like a museum and a, and a, and this is a, a, a old wooden box radio. And I found that to be so cool because I ended up buying a, a US RKO radio in a mahogany cabinet that worked with tubes from a rancher there in South Dakota that I wish I'd have never had wooden knobs and everything on it and worked beautifully. And, uh, that from that, from when I saw that, I had to have one of these damn radios. I don't know why. And this one was much nicer than what I saw, but iron, a steam iron standing. I drew pictures of, of, of it, the best of my recollection of everything.

• 1:37:02Speaker 01

  And then I was told in the, in the very back of the room, there was a round window, but it looked like, it looked like it was a, it was a round window with a slice taken out of it, like a pie without, with a slice removed from it. And I was told I could go look out that window, but I was too afraid to walk over there and look out of it for some reason. I didn't, I don't know why, but I mean, but I felt at ease, but I still didn't want to know or didn't want to see out that window.

• 1:37:29Speaker 00

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• 1:37:58Speaker 01

  Something really bothered me and about looking out that window. And I was told that twice that I could go look out the window and I didn't. So then I was told to follow.

• 1:38:08Speaker 01

  And, and to follow, and I did, I followed a, a small gray in front of me, little legs. And, uh,

• 1:38:17Speaker 01

  like a little gray type, uh, like spandex suit or something on, on, I guess.

• 1:38:27Speaker 01

  I mean, these, these things are so foreign to you. This, this, this whole visual concept is so foreign to you. It's very hard to find words for a lot of it, even after 44 years, man, it's just difficult. And I went, I followed him, went, turned left in this small little opening area and went into this room where it was just fogged. And then that's where my memories end, but that's where the thing was done to my wrist.

• 1:38:52Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 1:38:53Speaker 01

  And then, I don't know, from that point on, uh, that seemed to be right around the end of it.

• 1:39:00Jesse Michels?

  Did it feel like a dreamlike state or did it feel physical in this hypnotic regression?

• 1:39:05Speaker 01

  Oh, no, it felt physical.

• 1:39:06Jesse Michels?

  Felt real.

• 1:39:07Speaker 01

  The, uh, the first time I was hypnotized, which was, uh, Robert Upton, Bob Upton. Uh, I had, I had a pretty bad time because I never, I'm not a person ever thinking that I could be hypnotized to start with. I'm pretty strong willed and, and, uh, I, I feel as if I'm common sensed also and, and I just thought, oh, hypnosis is for someone else. It's just not for me, but, uh, Robert wanted me to try it. So I said, okay. And, and, uh, a funny thing, cause, uh, we had been through a hurricane just prior to that down in Brunswick, Georgia. And I had some roof damage and deck damage on the back of my home.

• 1:39:47Speaker 01

  And they were re-roofing my house that day. Now, what a day to be hypnotized on by this guy who, he came, he came up from Jacksonville, 67 miles south of me and, uh,

• 1:40:00Speaker 01

  He's like the lead of hypnotic regression person for MUFON at the time. I don't know if he still is, but he has my admiration. I couldn't do his job.

• 1:40:14Jesse Michels?

  And you didn't get any sort of weird sense from him that he had ulterior motives?

• 1:40:19Speaker 01

  No, no. Now, Robert Hastings had given him a set of questions that he was gonna ask me, and he told me that, and I was fine with that. They were re-roofing my home. So you'd imagine there's like 15 people on my roof, and my home has got a really steep roof. I couldn't do it. I can't even climb up there anymore, but...

• 1:40:39Speaker 01

  So they're literally peeling off plywood and replacing plywood nailers and everything else, things being tossed right up there. I never heard a single, a single air gun going off during that hypnosis session. That's why I knew I was hypnotized. I never heard any of that. But he took me down to a level. He had a way of doing it that evidently worked. But once I did, and I confronted what I saw,

• 1:41:09Speaker 01

  I, uh...

• 1:41:12Speaker 01

  It really upset me a great deal. Literally coming to face to face and smelling that smell again, hearing those words again. Maybe I was, I got that deep into it, and I never thought that I could. I don't know if a person's mind has changed, as we had said earlier. I don't know if that's what happens, but...

• 1:41:35Jesse Michels?

  Was it cathartic at all, or was it just purely painful?

• 1:41:40Speaker 01

  It got painful. It really did. I mean, when, when, when I visualized and saw what was being done to my wrist, and the way in which it was being done, it just... I mean, he could have cut my whole arm off. I wouldn't have known the difference. I couldn't, there's nothing I could do to stop it. You know, I mean, it could have been the end of my life right there, and that's how, that's how...

• 1:41:59Jesse Michels?

  Did you, no implants as far as the puncture?

• 1:42:02Speaker 01

  Oh, I have no idea. And those are on the other side of my body anyway, are those pockmarks. But, um...

• 1:42:10Jesse Michels?

  Do you still have the marks at all?

• 1:42:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42:11Jesse Michels?

  Can I see him?

• 1:42:12Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:42:17Speaker 01

  Right there.

• 1:42:20Speaker 01

  Right there. Had these socks on.

• 1:42:23Jesse Michels?

  Wow, wow, wow, wow. Wow. Yeah, those look, I mean, just like perfectly vertically aligned.

• 1:42:31Speaker 01

  Well, I had a doctor who's no longer with us.

• 1:42:33Jesse Michels?

  But like so clearly not like a spider, but like too way too big for that. Like, you know?

• 1:42:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42:40Jesse Michels?

  What would you say like, like a couple of centimeter and maybe a centimeter each?

• 1:42:44Speaker 01

  Dr. Mark Gold, um, he, he did, I had back surgery years ago and he did that and we had talked, we had talked, he was a really great guy. Unfortunately, COVID took him way too young as it did many, many people. And we were sitting in my backyard one night and after he had looked at this and he said, you know, he said, I'm gonna be honest with you, Mario, because I wanted to get something from him recorded, you know? And I didn't have that chance to, the last time I saw him was probably 2019 and he had some family issues and had to go up north and where you got COVID and he died. And, uh, his kids went to school with my kids at Frederica Academy on St. Simon's Island, uh, in Georgia. But he said, you know,

• 1:43:29Speaker 01

  what perplexed him was that there was no known life-saving event that he could think of, even including up to a car accident, that anything would be put in there or down here to either put in something or take out something. He said, and they're exactly the same depth and this, and the same size, you know, top to bottom. He says, I find that really odd, you know, because I told him the whole incident, what happened? And he just, he's like, holy crap.

• 1:44:02Jesse Michels?

  What indicates a technology or paradigm of our medical understanding?

• 1:44:07Speaker 01

  And if you look at this up close under a microscope, which has been done from a, or, or a magnifying scope, it has a little dimple right in the, right in the top of it, like a, like you drop water in a, you know, drop a rock in water and it goes bloop, bloop. That little dimple is right in the middle of both of them.

• 1:44:23Jesse Michels?

  Yep.

• 1:44:24Speaker 01

  That is really, that is really strange. So I don't know when these happened. I honestly don't. I don't remember healing from them. Uh, it, I didn't say it happened during my incident in 77. I don't know where they came from.

• 1:44:37Jesse Michels?

  Do you feel like you have a mission associated with this interest in pyramids where it's like, you know, at the time at which you're, you leave this earth, you want to accomplish something related to, to the pyramids?

• 1:44:52Speaker 01

  Man, that's a great question. Yes, I would like to know the answers.

• 1:44:57Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 1:44:57Speaker 01

  I would like to see those tools, you know, as

• 1:45:02Speaker 01

  uh, as Christopher Dunn says, I would like to see those tools and finally the admission that they had tools far greater than what we ever have imagined. And I think just like melting rock in South America. And Saqas A Human and some of the other facilities where these rocks are, you know, 13 sided and just an inch and a half and stuck in a hole that's two feet deep, all the way through the entire rock. How do you do that without softening that stone?

• 1:45:31Jesse Michels?

  Do you feel like

• 1:45:32Speaker 01

  Andesite.

• 1:45:33Jesse Michels?

  Do you feel like these sites globally? I feel like this is what Graham Hancock and Randall Carlson.

• 1:45:38Speaker 01

  I love that guy, man.

• 1:45:39Jesse Michels?

  Robert Shock. All these guys are kind of uh, getting into this idea that maybe a lot of this ancient geological, you know, architecture, megalithic architecture that's precociously astronomically aligned in a way that we don't even understand today. And it lines up with, you know, Ice Age or Pre-Ice Age.

• 1:45:57Speaker 01

  Certainly.

• 1:45:58Jesse Michels?

  Uh, you know, kind of vernal equinox.

• 1:46:00Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 1:46:00Jesse Michels?

  And so do you think that a lot of this architecture was, these were maybe kind of celestial ascent chambers? That were stargates to another world?

• 1:46:09Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:46:10Jesse Michels?

  And maybe things were getting kind of gnarly or cataclysmic and they were portals to elsewhere.

• 1:46:15Speaker 01

  Elsewhere. Totally believe that.

• 1:46:17Jesse Michels?

  Have you ever seen the Netflix show Dark by any chance?

• 1:46:20Speaker 01

  I've seen some of it, I believe.

• 1:46:22Jesse Michels?

  So it involves, uh, missing people around nuclear bases and a secret time travel program.

• 1:46:28Speaker 01

  Oh, I gotta see that.

• 1:46:29Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, you should check it out because, um.

• 1:46:31Speaker 01

  I wish they'd call me. I'd like to know.

• 1:46:33Jesse Michels?

  You know, you, you know, Lawrence, Lawrence Bell is about Bell Aircraft. So they broke the sound barrier in 1947.

• 1:46:40Speaker 01

  X-15.

• 1:46:40Jesse Michels?

  X-15, Chuck Yeager, exactly. And so there's an article in 1956 where they're saying, we're gonna beat gravity and it's right around the bend. And Lawrence Bell's quote from this article is, uh, we are already working with nuclear, nuclear fuels to cancel out gravity. And so you gotta think if, if time travel is possible at any point in the future, it's probably always been possible, right? And so where would we discover some sort of time travel program? It would probably be co-located with nuclear programs.

• 1:47:11Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 1:47:12Jesse Michels?

  So, and then how would you affect timelines? You might do it with, you know, particular people who represent kind of nodes or whatever, who get interested in things like pyramids after, you know, their encounters. And so do you think that, you know, that's a possible explanation that maybe a future time travel program represents an overlay over all of these nuclear sites in a way that somehow, you know, might profoundly shift humanity and might also keep us alive? Because if you think about where is the center of the apocalypse? It's these nuclear sites. I mean, where, what's gonna, you know, dictate the end of the world or not, you know, it's gonna be these sites. I have no idea. These are, it's crazy speculation, but so gravity is, is very related with time and general

• 1:47:57Jesse Michels?

  relativity. So, you know, Lawrence Bell is right and they're kind of using nuclear fuels to cancel out gravity. Maybe you're using nuclear fuels to mess with time too.

• 1:48:05Speaker 01

  It, it just makes you wonder how much technology that has been buried somehow or another, has been removed from our everyday.

• 1:48:15Speaker 01

  Conscious thought, you know, and why was that removed? Do we get so dangerous to ourselves? I mean, unfortunately, I wish we weren't so warlike.

• 1:48:24Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:24Speaker 01

  Because you don't believe something that I believe in, we're supposed to go to war over that. I just, I just, I just dislike that so much, you know, and religion, you know? I don't want to get into that, but it's what you believe is fine with me.

• 1:48:41Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:42Speaker 01

  What you believe is fine with me.

• 1:48:44Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:44Speaker 01

  What I believe is, is fine with me.

• 1:48:46Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:46Speaker 01

  And why can't it just be that?

• 1:48:48Jesse Michels?

  Do you think that, yeah, go, sorry.

• 1:48:50Speaker 01

  No, no, no. I, I, I do think that this technology that we're speaking of, even though we don't know it truly exists, it points to its existence in some way. And one day I think we will find the magic key. Somewhere there's a craft, if it hasn't already been discovered, that's sitting in a cave somewhere or under the ocean somewhere, under a ledge somewhere, or maybe even circling the planet invisible that we can't see, we're going to run into one day. I don't know.

• 1:49:17Jesse Michels?

  Well, maybe it'll happen sooner than.

• 1:49:18Speaker 01

  Maybe it'll happen sooner or later. And I, I just hope, I honestly do. And I get asked this all the time. Well,

• 1:49:27Speaker 01

  you think they're gonna come and defeat us and take us over? And, and my answer is always the same. Look, if any civilization that's out there comes here within their own lifetime and leaves and goes back in their same lifetime, that's 10,000 light years advanced to us. That's what Carl Sagan said that.

• 1:49:45Jesse Michels?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:49:46Speaker 01

  Um, bar none. That's just 10,000 light years advanced to us. So think about that. We're like the ants in an ant bed and they're standing in there looking at us, you know? I often think about the reverse visualization that night when I was flipping the facility lights at that, at that craft, whatever it was at the time to me. What would I have thought in my mind had I been up there looking down at this rectangular shaped site? Somebody's turning off and on the lights real quick in succession. Why would I flash back or wait a minute, how, how does that person down there see us up here? Why would they know that we're not supposed to be here or we're just up here observing? How would they know that? Do we find out who this guy is or a person is, I should say, or what?

• 1:50:31Speaker 01

  I don't know. I've done that reverse thing a couple of times to try to give answers to myself, which always end up, you know, with a zero, I'm right back where I started. But I do want to say that where New Lake Reservoir Dam was,

• 1:50:48Speaker 01

  it's a Pythagorean triangle from November 1, November 5, over to New Lake Reservoir and back to November 1 Control. I believe based on that position of New Lake Reservoir Dam, that's where that craft was, it was over that body of water when I saw it. Why, I don't know, but there's, there's always some type of a, there's a lot of sightings over water.

• 1:51:11Jesse Michels?

  Yes.

• 1:51:11Speaker 01

  And the deepest part of that reservoir, I think, is only like 40 feet. I could be wrong. It's under reconstruction right now. Cause I've been talking about it a lot for the last couple of years. I don't know if that's done anything, but um,

• 1:51:25Speaker 01

  the people in Newell are really good. And I, while we were there, uh, doing that filming, there were a couple of individuals. We're out on Orman Road. That's the road that November 5 is on. It's a dirt road still today. And there's a golf course off to the left side of it. When you, when you turn out of Newell on the Orman Road. In that day, you know, the town's so small that when we arrived there early in the morning to film, all these people started seeing us. So they, you know, news travels fast through there and they're great people. I've always, I've always had a lot of respect for those folks. And, uh, great cooks too, great Western Plains cooks, man. They could cook some good food, but uh,

• 1:52:07Speaker 01

  You would not believe the parade we had going up and down Norman Road watching this film. And it was the strangest thing because I had not been back to November 5 since that night. And the producer did not want to go directly in front of November 5 site itself because there's now like a small cattle processing facility on it, built on it. Cause it's built on the bedrock and when they detonated and collapsed the silos in and returned it, they left the fencing and the rock base there. So these ranchers used it to store hay on or do something on their cattle. The fencing is all still there. We could have used another site, but instead they went about 150 yards to the east of the site and we were looking into a plain

• 1:52:53Speaker 01

  field. You know, while I'm holding up my drawings and a drone's over my shoulder taking pictures of them. I just felt that not very good. And, uh, but when I got out of that vehicle and walked toward that site, man, that feeling came over me. I about went to my knees and, in hypnosis, when, uh, Robert Upson finished that hypnosis, something was wrong with me. And about four days later, I went to, uh, my, uh, pulmonologist, uh, and I was in AFib. And, uh, so I had to go in the next day because my heart was out of rhythm. Never had any heart

• 1:53:35Speaker 01

  problems whatsoever. Ever in my life, I've always been an athlete. And of course they put the, the patches on and shot me and sink, re-sinked me, I guess. And, uh, about a week went by and I started thinking about this thing over and over again. Boom, I went right back into AFib. So I had to go back and do it again. And, uh,

• 1:53:54Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 1:53:55Speaker 01

  They put me on medication. So I have to take medication, you know, and anytime you go into AFib, I guess they, uh, it puts you on a blood thinner.

• 1:54:02Jesse Michels?

  Do you regret having done the hypnotic regression?

• 1:54:04Speaker 01

  No, because it really gave me some insight.

• 1:54:06Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:07Speaker 01

  You know, and then, and it made it a lot easier when I, when I, uh, did the session just last year or year before last with, uh, Yvonne Smith in California.

• 1:54:17Jesse Michels?

  Do you ever experience weird electromagnetic effects with your body or?

• 1:54:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:54:21Jesse Michels?

  Like what sort of stuff?

• 1:54:22Speaker 01

  Like a light going off or something when I walk in a room, fluorescent light.

• 1:54:26Jesse Michels?

  Fluorescent light.

• 1:54:27Speaker 01

  Yeah. I've got a little, a little light fixture. It's named Honda.

• 1:54:30Jesse Michels?

  Phone's dying quickly, anything like that?

• 1:54:33Speaker 01

  No, I have had some other strange things go on though. Uh, Robert Hastings, I talked about that with emails vanishing everywhere. You know, the cloud and everywhere else just wiped clean. I've had that happen. Uh, as is he, but um, yeah, I've, I've had several incidents where that has really bothered me. Then the night of, uh, December 17th, 2017. Uh, my son was in his room. He was, he was home from, from, uh, working. Uh, he was working, he was in, living in Florida, came on to visit.

• 1:55:09Speaker 01

  Uh, and it was right at four 11 a.m. And this, that's also another thing about waking up at certain times of the night, one 11, three 33, four 11. Uh, it's just, it's just strange how that, how that happens, but, uh, I pay attention to it. And, uh, I have a room in the back of the house because I, I worked 12 hour shifts. So it rotated. So sometimes I'd have to, you know, sleep during the day, you know, till 3 p.m. Get up to go in for a 6 p.m. to 6 a.m. shift, you know, so it was rotating. So I had to have it darkened out so you could sleep. You just, I just can't sleep in sunlight. I don't know anybody that can, but, uh, anyway, I was, I was there sleeping and had to get up for work. And all of a sudden,

• 1:55:55Speaker 01

  I opened my eyes and I had this, I'm standing at the foot of my bed. I have, I have never been a person to sleepwalk ever in my life that I know, I know ever. And I'm standing at the foot of my bed, holding on to my bed frame with my right hand. And directly in front of me, there's about a four and a half or a five foot hole diameter in the north wall of my bedroom. And on that, in that circle that vanished immediately, like sparks flew off either side of it. I was like, what the hell? Anyway, soon as that, soon as that flashed out or went away, all the lights in my house started flickering

• 1:56:39Speaker 01

  just all over the house. And then the strange alarms started, I started hearing them. And my son popped through my door and he goes, Dad, what the hell is going, he goes, what's going on? I said, I don't know, son. He goes, what's those alarms? And I said, I don't know. I grabbed my pistol. I didn't know. Well, it's going to clear my house, you know? And, uh, which I did.

• 1:57:01Speaker 01

  I couldn't explain what I just saw and hadn't even verbally said anything about it yet. And it was just right here in front of me. Uh, and mind you, there's two dressers that were partially, that had a, that were partially gone or in that dark circle that I saw. And so I cleared my house and the, and I go into the kitchen area and the, all the lights were just like, just barely on, like they're just like the candlelight all throughout the house and the stove, the oven, the microwave and refrigerator, they have low voltage alarms on them, which I never knew. That's what the alarms were. They were all going off.

• 1:57:43Speaker 01

  So everything seemed to be normal other than the fact the lights weren't on. I tried flipping on lights and they wouldn't come on. They just come on barely and just flicker for a minute. And I just turned it back off, you know, but the stove, but the light over the stove, it was doing that. Every, every light, every electrical component in my home was affected, everything, doorbells, it's some everything. So I went back, talked to my son. I said, Jake, I said, what the heck was that, man? He goes, I don't know, dad. It's weird. He goes, it's really weird. You can call him and talk to him about it. So I said, well, I'll call Georgia Power in the morning when I get up, you know?

• 1:58:17Speaker 01

  So I, I just put everything down. I laid back down and just thinking, you know, uh, what was that? And about eight o'clock, my son pops through my door and he go, he knocks first. He says, Hey dad, he goes, George Powers here. And I said, what? He said, yeah, Georgia Powers in the front yard and I live on an acre. So to my, to the street from my front porch is about 200 feet. And, uh, so I got dressed and I hobbled out there and these guys right there working on the, where the power distribution comes into my home and it's all underground. My home was built in 97. And uh, so I found the supervisor, I said, I said, hey, I said, how you doing, sir?

• 1:59:00Speaker 01

  I said, I told him my name. He goes, it's your house. And I said, yes, sir. He just looked at me and uh, I said, wow, is the, I said, what happened? He goes, um, he just looked at me and he said, uh,

• 1:59:14Speaker 01

  well, you lost, you lost power, lost a leg of power. I said, dang, does that up, does that mess up the whole neighborhood? He goes, he looked at me, he says, no, he says, it's just your house. I said, what do you mean? He goes, well, you lit up our board downtown, like the fourth of July out here. And I said, well, how did I do that? We were all asleep. He said, I don't know. He said, but we're gonna have to replace this leg. So you have power in your home? He said, come on, I'll show you something. So they had already taken this big dolly and it had like transformer equipment. I've got pictures of it. You call Robert Hastings, first thing. They take this transformer thing on, on a dolly, take it to the back where my meter is, and they jumper into that meter box.

• 1:59:59Speaker 01

  So to establish power or a, uh, what do you call it? To um, uh, refine the, the power going in my home. Instead of, instead of just two legs, it gives it a third leg. Somehow it converts it and I don't know how that works. But I got pictures of it and he said, you'll be fine till we can come out and replace that wire. And uh, it took them about two days, three days and they were back and they did it. But uh, I just kept questioning what I had seen and what had happened and why that happened. And ours was the only house affected. Couple of weeks later, one of our neighbor's kids come by that my son used to play with. He stopped his truck, he's got an F-150.

• 2:00:43Speaker 01

  He says, hey, Mr. Woods, and he's been in my backyard. These kids have had parties, they all shot bows and arrows together, BB guns, name it. You know, we do all that stuff, ride motorcycles. He goes, hey, Mr. Woods, he said, um, I was cutting my grass. And he waved at me and I'll stop and I stopped and he stopped. And he goes, hey, what was going on there? Uh, last week or so, when all those lights were in your backyard? And I said, what are you talking about? He just, he didn't, he hesitated for a second. He goes, He goes, your backyard was lit up like a Hollywood set or something. He said, like those great big lights they say up in the air. He says, a whole backyard was lit up. I said, what do you mean, man? He said, yeah, it was four o'clock in the morning. He was leaving

• 2:01:25Speaker 01

  for work. That's how he saw that. And I said, well, you know, I've only got two spotlights right there on the corner of that room outside. And I said, uh, and on the corner of the back and the lights over the, on the rear patio, you know? He goes, I don't know, but it was lit up like you wouldn't believe. And I just, I just kept it to myself. I said, man, what did happen? Really? So what would they, what interest could they possibly, they would have in, you know, in a 65 year old man or whatever age I was at that time? What, what could they possibly want? I mean,

• 2:02:03Jesse Michels?

  What do you think?

• 2:02:04Speaker 01

  I have no idea. I honestly don't have a clue.

• 2:02:07Jesse Michels?

  What do you think? What do you hope the world gets from your testimony?

• 2:02:11Speaker 01

  Understanding perhaps, or possibility of, uh, perhaps not to fear as much.

• 2:02:24Speaker 01

  And, uh, not to think that they're here to defeat us. Because if they were, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. They'd have done it long ago anyhow.

• 2:02:35Jesse Michels?

  Do you think they're hybridizing themselves with us?

• 2:02:38Speaker 01

  Could very well be. Depends upon their, maybe their situation on their own planet. Maybe they're overcrowded perhaps, or they're, something's dying there. Progression through space, you know, you can't always get back to the starting point, you know, maybe they have to occupy worlds along the way in their great expansion.

• 2:02:59Jesse Michels?

  Well, it sounds like even on Ellsworth, that it was kind of an open secret that, you know, a lot of people had had some interesting experiences even before you, Mario. Do you think, you know, I was talking with Robert Hastings and, you know, he was noting that he had 167 ICPM security personnel, radar operators, guys on, on basis like yourself, who've experienced crafts.

• 2:03:20Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:03:20Jesse Michels?

  And then I remember I asked him, I was like, you know, Robert, what percentage of these people have had close encounters of the third kind, where they've actually met beings? And he said something like seven or eight, but then he said, I didn't ask anybody. Those were the people that volunteered. And I think about the culture of secrecy and humility when it comes to working at, you know, nuclear bases. If you have seven or eight people who you're just incidentally finding out are having, you know, close encounters of the third kind and actually seeing beings, it's probably over 100. It's of the 170. It's probably, you know, a massive, you know.

• 2:03:55Speaker 01

  And never alone, always with a partner. You are never alone in any nuclear facility. It's a two man rule. It has to be two of you at all times.

• 2:04:05Jesse Michels?

  Are there other cases like yours that you've found out about where the partner sort of seems to disappear or go missing?

• 2:04:12Speaker 01

  Terry Lovelace and his partner Toby.

• 2:04:15Jesse Michels?

  Cause Terry's still around, right?

• 2:04:17Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah. He's a great guy.

• 2:04:18Jesse Michels?

  But Toby's gone.

• 2:04:19Speaker 01

  Toby's gone. He, Terry told me that he, he literally, he never fully recovered after their incident. Now, he was not on duty. They were simply on a camping trip.

• 2:04:28Jesse Michels?

  And is Toby like in some facility, mental health facility? Or is he just like, no, no trace of him? Terry can't even find him or track him down?

• 2:04:36Speaker 01

  No, no, he was available. And of course the VA, they were giving him, you know, whatever pills or whatever to help his anxiety. And from my understanding, he had a really bad drinking problem from that period of time. And some people, I guess that's the way it affects and.

• 2:04:59Speaker 01

  It's really quite sad. And he was a real light-skinned black guy also. And we talk about that correlation between us and our partners, and it happened the same year. Also, in that movie Close Encounters of the Third Kind came out, I went to see it in Rapid City at the theater, you know, on Main Street, still there today. Or the building is, I'm not sure if the theater is or not, but I think it is. And that part where Roy Neary is crossing the rebel tracks, and he's looking at the map, got the flashlight in his mouth, and that light pops on. If you'll notice during that period of time, his body was, it was as if he was being, whatever he was

• 2:05:42Speaker 01

  hearing or feeling, was talking to him or programming him on the inside. He's literally, he's doing some kind of a weird, I should say, receiving of whatever is giving him. And you can see it, and he portrays it very well, and it really made me think a lot. Because when I saw that movie, it was as if what's going on in a missile field right now, not just to me, but to, these craft are out there, there's cattle mutilations going on, Linda Moulton House in the area. I tried contacting her in like 20, might have been before that, but she got my email

• 2:06:20Speaker 01

  in 2014, I'd sent something to her. And she worked at a station in Denver, Colorado, was, you know, like, I don't know if she was in, what kind of news she did, but she was investigating cattle mutilations all throughout the Northwest where we were. And of course, we were told not to speak to any media people whatsoever. But the point is that when he underwent what he did under that light, before that craft let him go, it seemed to put something in his mind, which really struck me, before it stopped, you know, and moved. I had to literally get up out of my seat, and I ran out and sat on the curb on Main Street in Rapid City. Because what I

• 2:07:05Speaker 01

  just saw felt as if it was a direct replay of what I just went through, only a little bit different, where, you know, the craft was above him, and these little guys came up to the side of our vehicle.

• 2:07:19Speaker 01

  Just that, just like that. And it's, it's really hard to deal with, you know?

• 2:07:25Jesse Michels?

  Often it feels like the ear bones are messed with, the bones dealing with balance and orientation. And then this is an interesting kind of connection around them checking your teeth. My buddy made a documentary on this guy, Andre Puharic. And Puharic helped start the MKUltra program. So it's like CIA.

• 2:07:45Speaker 01

  Yugoslavian guy, wasn't he? Is he?

• 2:07:47Jesse Michels?

  I think he was.

• 2:07:48Speaker 01

  I read something about a guy with that name. I'm pretty sure I did.

• 2:07:51Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, he's either, he's like, yeah, Eastern European or Russian. Yeah, maybe Yugoslavian. And yeah, he was at Northwestern and he had, you know, the Round Table Institute at Maine, where they were sort of summoning stuff. And then he was also, he had this actually school of space children in upstate New York, where he was, you know, studying all sorts of telepathy and download channeling. Actually, the book Star Trek came, he had this one channeler named Phyllis Schaefer. And she wrote a book called The Only Planet of Choice that was channeled. And she was in communication with the nine, quote unquote, which is this council of, you know, possible ET beings. And they were talking about the earth as a bottleneck of consciousness.

• 2:08:34Jesse Michels?

  We have to get past this bottleneck in order to ascend, whatever. Fascinating stuff. But interestingly, Puharic found this guy who was sort of schizophrenic and he was hearing voices in his head. But it almost sounded like the voices he was hearing were similar to like, what somebody would describe in an alien telepathy experience, where they were getting, he was getting kind of immediate downloads. And Puharic was studying him and they realized he was a construction worker and he was working with, you know, sawing metals or whatever. And so they found these fine, you know, metals in his teeth. And that somehow in Puharic's belief was that extremely low frequency,

• 2:09:18Jesse Michels?

  yeah, radio waves were actually responsible for thought in a way that's upstream or connected with the acoustical waves that, you know, represent our normal cognition.

• 2:09:27Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 2:09:28Jesse Michels?

  And so maybe they were checking your teeth either because they were worried that you were already receiving downloads or like in touch prior to this experience, or because they thought the implant where they would communicate with you on a go-forward basis might be there.

• 2:09:45Speaker 01

  Wow. I've never even thought of it that way. I, some people said they were looking at you maybe for ra- uh, radioactive contamination or something like that?

• 2:09:54Jesse Michels?

  I, you might be right. I mean, this is my, my harebrained.

• 2:09:57Speaker 01

  That really does make sense, man. I mean, you gotta look at it all. You can't, you can't discount anything.

• 2:10:02Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:10:02Speaker 01

  Cause you're dealing with a technology that, that don't sit on couches, you know, that, that can speak full volumes through your cellular work in your body.

• 2:10:14Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:10:14Speaker 01

  They don't need to communicate. I mean, they have no, that's something that's, their brain is so far past that.

• 2:10:19Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:10:20Speaker 01

  They don't, they have to speak words to you and their language is, is probably where we say, and um, um, man, like, there's none of that in that.

• 2:10:31Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, they have like-

• 2:10:31Speaker 01

  In those conversations, it's direct.

• 2:10:33Jesse Michels?

  Rude access.

• 2:10:34Speaker 01

  And you never, ever will forget that feeling and that sound.

• 2:10:38Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. Yeah, it's almost like we have this meme library that was like, is installed or something. You look at like Descartes demon, like, maybe that's actually more true than not.

• 2:10:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:10:48Jesse Michels?

  Uh, the Cartesian 3D time-bound plane is sort of controlled, uh, at least as far as the veneer that we see.

• 2:10:57Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:10:57Jesse Michels?

  And, uh, the shade, the shades of that, we're seeing shadow play of something higher. And, uh, that something higher might communicate, be able to communicate on a much more direct le- level. And also be able to, um, shade or, uh, you know, in Plato, you have like, you know, it's like, don't trust your senses, right?

• 2:11:16Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:11:17Jesse Michels?

  You have to contemplate virtue and you can ascend out of the lower world or whatever.

• 2:11:20Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:11:21Jesse Michels?

  There's much more. And, uh, you know-

• 2:11:23Speaker 01

  I was the only one who read any of that.

• 2:11:26Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, and, um, and you forget your primordial self and maybe in experiences like this, you sort of, you know, you, you get back in touch with it. But maybe, maybe some of these beings are, yeah, you know, I was at a hell put off's house not too long ago and on his bookshelf, he had this book called demonic reality.

• 2:11:43Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:11:43Jesse Michels?

  And it was like, you know, like, I don't know, I gotta read the book, but it's, it feels like the implication is like, our low level reality is kind of controlled by some sort of, you know, Gnostic traditions, you might call it like a demiurge.

• 2:11:55Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 2:11:55Jesse Michels?

  Where, um, we're not seeing, you know, ultimate reality.

• 2:12:00Speaker 01

  I, I think in, in Lou's book, I found the part where he talks about some of his superiors where they had this demonic, uh-

• 2:12:10Speaker 01

  Direction, thinking these things were.

• 2:12:13Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, yeah, it's called the Collins Elite. Yeah.

• 2:12:16Speaker 01

  Yes. You know, versus where Lou was in his thinking, which I agree with a hundred percent. I've been told that several times. Well, you know, these are just demons. These are just angels and demons, you know? All right. Well, what's your definition?

• 2:12:30Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:31Speaker 01

  Definition of an angel?

• 2:12:32Jesse Michels?

  That, that's what, yeah, exactly.

• 2:12:34Speaker 01

  In my book, I mean, I would just look at somebody that says that, you know, I'm not saying it doesn't exist. You know, I, I, I'm serious and I've, I've seen something in my time too, after our mother passed away. And that really, uh, an apparition, I'll just say, and it was my mother's apparition. And my brothers both saw it. And, uh, I, I, and that established me, you know, that night I said, and we all talked about it. Our mama was standing in that kitchen in a lightning storm. Her figure was there, not her face, but her figure was there. And at two o'clock in the morning on a thunderstorm night in Tampa, Florida, a couple of days after she died, and that's the truth.

• 2:13:17Speaker 01

  But I, I, I totally agree with what you, what you're just saying there. Cause I think that, uh, I always associate it to when you're in your mother's womb. And you're, and your dad or your mom or your, one of your aunts been down or your brother's future brother or sister leans down and starts talking to you. And you're in your mother's womb, you know, a baby hears that. That to me, uh, directly related to what I kept hearing, do not fear. That I recognized it. And, uh, the accent on that voice sounded as if, uh,

• 2:13:58Speaker 01

  something off of, uh, what was that? Um, Hogwarts or what, or what do, what do you call it? Um?

• 2:14:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, Harry Potter, when that snake is talking to him like that.

• 2:14:10Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:10Speaker 01

  That's the way those.

• 2:14:11Jesse Michels?

  Basilisk.

• 2:14:11Speaker 01

  That's the way those words rolled. Dude, you're like, I can't even do it. Do not fear. Do not fear. And elongate it out, not just those words, how short I was. Do not fear. And I still can't do it right. But it, it, it gets to every part of you. In description, it gets to every part. You just feel it radiate through you.

• 2:14:35Jesse Michels?

  And before joining Ellsworth Air Force Base, what was, what was kind of your motivation? Why'd you get into this?

• 2:14:41Speaker 01

  Honestly, I should have probably gone in the Navy. My father was a merchant seaman and he sailed with Texaco, sailed all of his life, seen USOs.

• 2:14:53Speaker 01

  He was in a car accident in 73 and lost his life. And I just turned 17 years old. When that happened, so it literally changed the entire configuration of my family. And my thoughts prior to, I wanted to go to the Maritime Institute. I think it was in some part of Connecticut. I could be mistaken. And I wanted to become a captain. I didn't want to be a chief engineer because I saw how dirty my dad would get. Or I'd go down to an engine room of a ship that he was on at port and see him climbing up out, out of a cylinder of a, of an engine. So you know, the size of these things are massive and I always respected that a great deal.

• 2:15:33Speaker 01

  But for me, growing up in South Florida and, and Long Beach and other places, I always had this aspiration for things that flew. So whenever the Cape was launching and that kind of thing, I always went outside either to see him or go with a bunch of friends, go to Cape Canaveral to, you know, to watch a rocket launch. And originally I didn't want to go, I wouldn't even think about security police. But.

• 2:15:58Speaker 01

  I'm colorblind and after I passed all the tests to work on rocket engines because I thought NASA is my goal, right? I was in the hallway at the A-Fish Station in Jacksonville, just a young guy, long hair down here. And this little staff sergeant, she came running up to me. She goes, Mr. Woods, she goes, we gotta, we gotta talk to you for a minute. And I said, what is it? You know, I was ready to go. I was gonna go back home to Tampa. And she told me, she goes, I need you to talk to somebody. And I said, okay. So I went back with her, went into this office. And there was this gentleman standing there. And I think he was like a tech sergeant, E6, E7, somewhere around there. And he goes, Mr. Woods, he goes, I need you to look at some

• 2:16:39Speaker 01

  things. And he opens up this sample book, like you would go pick out carpet, you know, with all these different colors of carpet, but it was wiring. And he said, show me the, the purple and yellow intertwined wire. And I just looked, you know, and really, I couldn't do it. And he let me do that two or three times. And he goes, that's why you can't wire a rocket engine. So it made perfect sense to me. So of course, I did score good on my ASVAB test. So she asked me if I'd be interested in some other things. And I said, sure, let's have a look. So they had videotapes back then. And I looked at a couple of them. And then I saw these guys rappelling out of a

• 2:17:20Speaker 01

  helicopter, you know, fully clothed, fully armed, you know, and it came out on fast ropes. And I said, and they had berets on their head. And I said, that's what I want to do. So that's how I ended up in security police. And loved it.

• 2:17:32Jesse Michels?

  So you want to be a rocket scientist?

• 2:17:33Speaker 01

  Well, I wanted to do engines, rocket engines. Yes.

• 2:17:37Jesse Michels?

  That's a tough job.

• 2:17:39Speaker 01

  I used to always launch rockets growing up as a kid.

• 2:17:41Jesse Michels?

  Did you?

• 2:17:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, they were 98 cents for, you know, those little rocket engines, you know, fuselages were all made of like a Uh, paper towel rolls or something.

• 2:17:51Jesse Michels?

  What do you think sparked your early interest in rockets and space?

• 2:17:55Speaker 01

  Uh, I, I, I'm sure that what I saw in 1961 at D Queen Elementary School in Port Arthur, Texas, had something to do with it.

• 2:18:04Jesse Michels?

  Uh, what'd you see in 1961?

• 2:18:06Speaker 01

  Uh, my, my mother, uh, was taking me to my first grade, uh, school, which was D Queen Elementary. And, uh, we were about the fifth, there was seventh car back in line and I'm on the passenger side in the, in the front seat, no seatbelt, we didn't do that back then. My sister was in the backseat, of course, my mother's driving and she stopped short of the car in front of her. And she says, look, Anthony, look at those flying saucers. When's the last time your mother ever said something like that to you? I mean, I'm just six years old, five and a half, six years old. And I, I, I just couldn't even fathom what she said and they were right over a church, just maybe 25 to 50 feet in the air and there were three of them.

• 2:18:50Speaker 01

  They were beautiful, prettiest craft I've ever seen in my life. I can picture them in my mind right now. My sister and I talk about it all the time. And, uh, the thing that struck me was they were there long enough to where I kinda did a really strange scan, looking around at people always kinda, anything worth memorizes and memorizing is worth looking around for a moment to take a quick mental picture of it, uh, if that explains that. But we had a playground directly across from the school that the road was blocked off and all the kids, everybody met out there before class time. Every eye and arm and hand and pointer finger was pointing in the air. And then looking back to the left at the side of the school, we didn't have AC back then.

• 2:19:35Speaker 01

  So the windows were always open and there were people, it was like a four, maybe five story building at the time. It's been since rebuilt, uh, But anyway, all these people were pointing out the windows and the grades went from kindergarten to 12th grade there. So everybody, including teachers, were looking outside and the strangest part about it, it was over the, directly over this church that sat right on the corner of DeQueen Boulevard. And the schools here and the church was there. So they were just right here and we were right there next to it. And my mom, she opens her door and steps out. My sister, I remember her saying, Mom, I'm scared. She says, it'll be okay, honey. They're not

• 2:20:16Speaker 01

  here to hurt you. That's what she said. And I grabbed her. By the other hand, we were hanging there watching them, you know, and probably watched them for a good couple of minutes. And they were white silver craft, standard saucer configuration with a dome on top and a dome on the bottom. But they had these lights that went around the outer rim of it. And they were all, and they were all synchronized. And it was extremely fast. It was so much to take in as something you've never seen or didn't, couldn't even know existed. But it felt so normal. It looked so normal, like somebody was checking in on us, if that's

• 2:20:54Speaker 01

  the word. And when they left, it was all at one time, straight up, if there had been clouds, they'd have punched holes through those clouds. And they were just gone. They'd have literally just went from that big around to this big around and out of your sight. And the strangest part about that, the, everybody on that playground and in the school, in school, nobody said a word about it. Everybody went right back to what they were doing and never mentioned it all day long.

• 2:21:25Jesse Michels?

  Have you talked to any of the witnesses since?

• 2:21:27Speaker 01

  No, other than my sister, my mother's since passed long ago, but, uh, uh, pulled her off to Texas a long, a long time ago. But, uh, I've never forgotten that. So it's really, really something.

• 2:21:42Jesse Michels?

  That's remarkable. Did you feel changed after that at all?

• 2:21:47Speaker 01

  In some way, my sister and I talked about it. I just think the visualization of it and what it could possibly mean to a six-year-old.

• 2:21:53Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:21:54Speaker 01

  Definitely has, you know, changing effects on what you've known forever, you know? Not questioning God, because I believe in God and, uh, and, and, and my Savior, but I, I, it, it just changes you. It, it opens your eyes or your mind into what is or could be.

• 2:22:14Jesse Michels?

  And, and that might've gotten you interested in space and rocketry and that sort of thing?

• 2:22:18Speaker 01

  Possibly.

• 2:22:19Jesse Michels?

  Interesting.

• 2:22:20Speaker 01

  I don't think that, I don't think they come without a reason. I, I, if I can just say that, I think, I think they have great effects and there's, seems to be this thing with the number three. What it could mean, I don't know. I know, I know Tesla had a real strange thing concerning the number three and I've read a lot about him.

• 2:22:41Jesse Michels?

  Well, it's, yeah, it's a sort of Jesus died at thirty-three. Alexander the Great died at thirty-three.

• 2:22:46Speaker 01

  See?

• 2:22:46Jesse Michels?

  In Freemasonry, you have thirty-three levels.

• 2:22:48Speaker 05

  Why do you think, why do you think that happened? It's such a, it's such a like, like a life-changing event that seems pretty bizarre that people won't, especially in sixty-one, when you haven't seen that many things in the sky.

• 2:23:00Speaker 01

  No, ever. Other than aircraft with propellers. There were no jets, you know?

• 2:23:05Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:23:06Speaker 01

  I flew on a bunch of them, so even at a young age, but yeah, that's very true. I, I, I, I always, I always wonder if just being in the proximity of these things, if they're, if they're pulsing or emanating some type of a,

• 2:23:24Speaker 01

  some type of a, not energy, but a wave or a, something that might be inducing to humankind, uh, maybe in the thought of them or, or, or some, some kind of idea. Uh, you, I don't ever, very few people that I've spoken with or call me have ever run from a craft, or if they've seen one, yeah, up close and personal, but. It just amazes me that it just seems to be the normal thing when a person does see it and then they later recollect and oh, it's something different now, you know?

• 2:24:04Speaker 05

  I don't know if your mom was so nonchalant about it, like that feels so shocking, especially when you have your two young kids with you.

• 2:24:11Speaker 01

  Uh, she had seen things before, she said, and, uh, and she literally didn't elaborate on any of it, but she said she had seen things before in, uh, Rocky Mountain, North Carolina, growing up as a, as a kid. And of course, my father was from Banaca, Honduras, and he's seen so many things, I can't even, in the, in the jungles and in the ocean. And he used to always tell me of, of, you know, an entire crew of 29 or 30 men seeing something exit from the water and come up into the atmosphere and bolt off, you know? And I just let it go. I never really thought too much about it at all. And, uh, I don't know if you've ever heard of the Marine Sulfur Queen, the ship that sank in 63? Well, she, uh, she

• 2:24:56Speaker 01

  left port in Port Arthur, Texas. That was the first ship I ever went on as a child. At five years old, my father served on that vessel, only had two cousins on board. And, um, he had a job with Texaco at that particular time. And so I went with him to, he was getting his things and going up that gangway, I, I lost, you know, they didn't net the gangways back then. And I lost one of my shoes and I was so fearful of, I had my dad by the hand, it probably broke his fingers, but, uh, I was so fearful of falling through the steps and into the water, you know, because it was at nighttime. And then she sailed and she was gone just a couple of days later and they never found anything but one nameplate on her that said Marine S U L F on Miami Beach. And, uh, don't know whatever happened

• 2:25:38Speaker 01

  to that vessel and all hands were lost. So two of his cousins went down on that ship.

• 2:25:47Speaker 06

  Since I did the documentary last year and wrote my book, I've been amazed by the number of people who've told me that the phenomenon of sighting these objects and having these weird experiences, that I suppose you could call them paranormal, it runs in the family.

• 2:26:01Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 2:26:02Speaker 06

  Mum had it, dad had it, granddad had it.

• 2:26:04Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 2:26:05Speaker 06

  It's quite common, isn't it?

• 2:26:06Speaker 07

  Yeah, I mean, and so I would, I wouldn't turn it into a movie script of some sort of magical ability. It's just, if it's a feature of intelligence, then no surprise that it gets passed down family to family.

• 2:26:23Jesse Michels?

  Mari, you have an amazing story, man. I'm super grateful for you.

• 2:26:27Speaker 01

  And I try to bring every single part of it out, every single time. And I just want to be as factual as I know how to be, whether it be the incident itself, hypnosis, what I saw, what I drew, what I feel, and I don't try to embellish any part of this, any part whatsoever. I never will do that. I just need Michael Johnson.

• 2:26:48Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:26:49Speaker 01

  Need Michael Johnson.

• 2:26:50Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, anybody out there, we gotta, we gotta find this guy.

• 2:26:53Speaker 01

  Every single, and there's quite a few now, podcasts and every single network I've ever been on, I've always asked if anyone knows Michael Johnson. I don't know his middle initial. He told me he was from Chicago, Illinois. I went on, I've been on all, you know, on every social media that I could and also TWS, which is Together, or Together We Serve, military stuff. Trying to find people from that time. And a couple that I have found, that I've known, I can't get an answer out of them.

• 2:27:23Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:27:24Speaker 01

  And I can see their picture and their rank and how long they stayed in the service. It gives you those dates. But I can't find, I can't make communication or contact with them.

• 2:27:34Jesse Michels?

  Have you made any money off of, you know, your telling your account of what had happened?

• 2:27:39Speaker 01

  No, I don't have a book. I would like to try to do an audiobook. And someone close to me suggested that.

• 2:27:46Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:27:46Speaker 01

  I've never done that.

• 2:27:47Jesse Michels?

  Have you faced any pushback from colleagues or the press or people, or mostly people just grateful that you've told your account?

• 2:27:55Speaker 01

  You know, I've had a couple of people say something before, like, you know, this guy's smoking something. I wish I was. I wish that's all it would have been. But either, as Robert Hastings once said, he goes, "Mario, either you were in the right place at the right time, or the wrong place at the right time. But you were there no matter what."

• 2:28:12Jesse Michels?

  Yep.

• 2:28:13Speaker 01

  And he coined it for me, and I have greatest respect for that man, ever.

• 2:28:18Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, well, it's super clear, just speaking to you, how matter-of-fact you are, and how, yeah, just descriptive the account is. I mean, I feel like I have decent pattern matching when it comes to people bullshitting me. For a job, I, you know, invest in companies and stuff.

• 2:28:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:28:35Jesse Michels?

  So it's like, kind of, the ultimate, like, the only thing, you know, you can't be an expert in everything, and you kind of just have to be assessing out people.

• 2:28:41Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 2:28:42Jesse Michels?

  And so, you passed my test, man, and I'm sure you did the entire audience out.

• 2:28:46Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 2:28:47Jesse Michels?

  Mario, really appreciate it, man. This was amazing, and, yeah, thanks for your time, and for your service, and for going public.

• 2:28:54Speaker 01

  Ambassador. I've heard that word before.

• 2:28:57Jesse Michels?

  Ambassador. ET Ambassador.

• 2:28:59Speaker 01

  I've heard that before. I don't know. It's true.