UFO Whistleblower: “I Saw Alien Tech In An Underground Base”

Join Jesse Michels on American Alchemy as Green Beret Randy Anderson reveals his shocking 2014 encounter with a levitating, extraterrestrial orb at a classified facility. This profound experience with off-world technology reshaped his view of reality and highlights the urgent need for public awareness, resilience, and preparedness. SUPPORT RANDY ➤ Bravo1Defense: https://bravo1defense.com Check out UAPGerb's Channel ➤ https://www.youtube.com/@UCXr8USOuzZN_3y_efZpryrg JOIN OUR NEW COMMUNITY ➤ https://whop.com/americanalchemy Become a Member of American Alchemy: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuG2KzrIMe3qoNcuDVpwnXw/join INSTAGRAM ➤ https://www.instagram.com/jessemichelsofficial TWITTER ➤ https://twitter.com/AlchemyAmerican EMAIL/BOOKINGS ➤ [email protected] Timestamps: 00:00 - Introduction 02:19 - Randy’s Background 09:40 - US Advanced Drones 12:30 - Area 51 19:22 - Green Orbs 22:32 - Bob Lazar 24:55 - Recruiting 27:32 - Crane 31:32 - Off World Technologies 39:55 - Floating Orb 47:41 - Gauntlet 49:42 - Hieroglyphic Symbols 54:20 - Cryptography 57:48 - Corroborating Randy’s Story 59:12 - Why Speak Out? 59:48 - How Did This Affect Randy? 01:02:40 - Michael Herrera's Story 01:06:48 - 2025 Disclosure 01:07:55 - “Reality Isn’t What We Think” 01:12:40 - Spiritual Aspect of This 01:16:12 - Current Events 01:19:15 - Warnings of AI 01:21:03 - Shared Consciousness 01:27:31 - Quantum Discussion 01:32:48 - How to Prepare? 01:39:50 - Key Takeaways #news #area51 #aliens #consciousness #disclosure Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 0:30Speaker 01

  Our technology is well ahead of what people know. Because where I was, right place, right time, I saw some of that.

• 0:38Jesse Michels?

  You occasionally still work at Area 51, right?

• 0:41Speaker 01

  We call it the test site or the test range. Area 51 is just one component of that entire huge sprawling compound. During that time, a green orb type object had flown over and that was where the weird shit started. We moved on down another hallway and it had a marking on the wall and said Offworld Technology.

• 1:04Jesse Michels?

  That's insane.

• 1:06Speaker 01

  Metallic basketball-sized sphere. Looked like it was just levitating above the podium. It looked unnatural. I'm looking at it and it almost looked like a mirage type of effect. And above that display screen were these hieroglyphic symbols that I started to see appear. This is encoded in something deeper.

• 1:28Jesse Michels?

  Way deeper.

• 1:33Jesse Michels?

  Welcome to maybe the most mind-blowing interview we've ever done at American Alchemy. It's with a Green Beret named Randy Anderson. Randy is an American badass. He's a complete physical specimen, having completed the notorious SER and Q Special Forces qualification courses, both of which have very high failure rates. He's also an 18 Bravo Special Forces Weapon Sergeant who knows how to operate just about every gun under the sun. He wouldn't let me bring this up in our interview because of how much he cares about maintaining a humble, quiet, Green Beret attitude, but there's a lot more I can say about Randy's battlefield. Field accomplishments. Out of respect for him, I will leave that a mystery for you to speculate on.

• 2:14Jesse Michels?

  But why are we talking about Randy now? And why has he agreed to go on record? Well, for the purposes of this episode in our channel, which covers the nature of reality. In March of 2014, Randy was taken to a secret underground facility called the Offworld Technology Division at Naval Surface Warfare Center, Crane. What he saw there changed his view of American technological capabilities and his worldview and understanding of humanity and its place in the universe forever. And now it might change your understanding of all of these things as well. Thank you so much for being here. I just can't tell you how much of an honor and privilege it is to be trusted with telling your story.

• 2:56Jesse Michels?

  It's one of the most profound, interesting stories I've ever heard. And I've heard, given what I do, a lot of crazy stuff out there. And I think we both are aware of the fact that 2025 is going to be a pretty crazy year. I think a lot of stuff is coming down the pike. And, uh, you know, if there was ever a time for you to come out with your story, I think now now would be it. And so we've been having conversations about that. And I just feel honored to be here right now. I think this is an amazing moment and thank you.

• 3:28Speaker 01

  Absolutely, man. You're the guy that's you're out there doing it, man. You're you're putting the story out there. You're telling people what's up, bringing awareness to it. And I think that's key. And that's why I wanted to do this with you.

• 3:39Jesse Michels?

  And we have a mutual friend.

• 3:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:41Jesse Michels?

  He goes by UAP Gerb. He has an incredible channel and he introduced us. And so I just want to start off by giving him a huge shout out because he's one of the deepest researchers I've ever met when it comes to this topic.

• 3:53Speaker 01

  I was thoroughly impressed with the amount of stuff he dug up on the place that I did the training at.

• 3:58Jesse Michels?

  Absolutely.

• 3:59Speaker 01

  It was wild.

• 4:00Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. So shout out to Gerb. And I know you're going to be doing a follow up with him. And so, uh, yeah, just want to want to express my gratitude there, but let's get into your story. Because I think in some ways you are an ordinary American and then in other ways, you're an extraordinary American. And so I want to get into the the ordinary elements. Where'd you grow up and what were you like as a kid?

• 4:22Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania is where I was born and raised for the first 10 years of my life. We moved to Las Vegas when I was pretty young and like 10, 11 years old. And I grew up there the rest of my life. So I did back and forth for a while with family. So most of my family is still back there. And then most of my young childhood teenage years were all in Las Vegas.

• 4:43Jesse Michels?

  And did you know that you ended up having this really impressive, amazing, thank you for your service, by the way, career in special forces. Did you know you wanted to get into that as a kid?

• 4:54Speaker 01

  No, I I thought I wanted to be a Navy SEAL because that's what everybody knows about. And I thought that was what the coolest thing you could do in the military at the time. And but I also wanted to be a fireman. That type of work always is what appealed to me when I was a kid. Like any typical young American boy.

• 5:10Jesse Michels?

  You ended up becoming a Green Beret and a lot of people know about Navy SEALs. There are a lot of public Navy SEALs out there. You have David Goggins, you know, people like that, you know, doing podcast circuit sort of stuff all the time. Green Berets are much less well known and there's sort of a rivalry at times between between the two.

• 5:29Speaker 01

  We like it. We like it that way. We like being the true quiet professionals. I mean, it's a cultural thing. It's a cultural difference. I mean, nothing, I wouldn't say anything negative about the SEALs. They're a very professional organization. It's just culturally in in special forces, Army Special Forces particularly, it's it's not very popular to talk about what you do. That's why this is super uncomfortable for me to talk about it publicly. But I think this is important enough to do it.

• 5:54Jesse Michels?

  At what point did you become a Green Beret?

• 5:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, well, when I was young, I was testing for the fire department in Las Vegas. I got hired for the fire department really young, 19 years old. And I did that for a few years in my early 20s. I was kind of feeling stagnant. I was a very motivated young man and I and I I always challenged myself to do the best I could. I was valedictorian of my fire department academy, firefighter academy. And I just felt like I was kind of getting stagnant. I was working at the busiest firehouse in the country. I was fighting fires all the time, but I just felt like I wanted to do more. The war was raging in the Middle East and I was thinking still about that childhood dream of becoming a Navy SEAL and I started looking into it and how I could do it.

• 6:41Speaker 01

  Without telling anybody, I kind of kept it a secret. I was married at the time too, so. Uh, my wife's the only one at the time that knew that I was looking into it because obviously I had to make sure she was cool with it. Uh, so I started digging in and finding out more about the Navy SEALs and talked to a SEAL recruiter. Uh, during that time, another friend of mine who was a firefighter for a sister department in Henderson, Nevada. And she's right in Las Vegas. He told me that he was a SEAL or a Marsoc guy. He was a, what do they call it? A corpsman for the Navy. Worked with Marsoc and the SEALs. And he told me to look into Green Berets. He said, it's just, he thought it would fit my personality better. And he said, he told me a little bit about what they do. And I was like, that sounds really cool.

• 7:25Speaker 01

  Looked into it, didn't know much about it before that. And I was like, that is definitely more of a fit for my personality and what I, what I want to do. Just, they do kind of everything.

• 7:34Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 7:34Speaker 01

  Uh, unconventional warfare, uh, anything from counter drug to, to counterterrorism. Unconventional warfare is like going in with a guerrilla force and overthrowing a tyrannical government, for example. So that just seemed like a really cool, noble thing, mission to me. And so that's, I definitely was, it resonated with me and I pursued it and luckily made it.

• 7:58Jesse Michels?

  What, how old were you at the time?

• 8:00Speaker 01

  I was like 25.

• 8:01Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 8:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:01Jesse Michels?

  And what was the main distinction? Cause you said you grew up wanting to be a Navy SEAL. Why did you decide Green Beret over Navy SEAL? What's the main distinction between the two?

• 8:09Speaker 01

  As I dug into both, uh, of the careers, uh, Navy SEALs, there's movies out there and there's books out there. And Green Berets didn't have a lot of information. I had to really dig to find out. And I thought that, that right there was cool to me. Like I didn't want to do it to get some kind of accolade or recognition. I wanted to do it because it was doing the right thing and, uh, helping be part of the solution and do, finding it to the tip of the spear. I, I felt like, and so that's what I, that's why I was drawn to it.

• 8:38Jesse Michels?

  How intense was the initial training?

• 8:40Speaker 01

  That's pretty brutal, as you can imagine, like any, any of that type of training that's gonna weed out 90% of the people. It's, it's, it's pretty brutal. You go through all your basic training and all that stuff. And then you go through a selection phase, which is. Pretty difficult and the last part of that phase is team week and you're broken and beaten. I mean, everybody's got stress fractures and I think I had hundreds of stress fractures in my feet by the end of it. And you know, you're just, you're still moving 20, 30 mile movements, you know, throughout the day and carrying an exorbitant amount of weight, like I think 175, 180 pounds through soft sand. It's just brutal. I mean, there's a lot of stuff out there on the internet about it and, but that's probably one of the more difficult physically demanding phases.

• 9:22Speaker 01

  But during the Q course, you have language phase. You gotta learn a foreign language. You gotta be fluent. You have six months to do that. That's difficult to do.

• 9:29Jesse Michels?

  Do you know any foreign languages?

• 9:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, I speak Indonesian and Malaysian.

• 9:33Jesse Michels?

  It's amazing. Indonesian is not an easy first language to learn.

• 9:37Speaker 01

  It's actually fairly easy.

• 9:39Jesse Michels?

  It is?

• 9:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, it actually.

• 9:40Jesse Michels?

  That's right. Isn't it sort of very, I'm going to use this word incorrectly, but almost interoperable? Like it's, I have a old colleague named Eric Weinstein who always talks about how Indonesian is actually easy to pick up because it's like a few different core variables or something that account for the rest of the language.

• 9:58Speaker 01

  It's fairly easy. The alphabet's identical. The sounds are slightly different, but it's, any language is a lot of block memorization and then understanding like how you relate it to your, your native language.

• 10:10Jesse Michels?

  Are there any things that you saw deployed in the field that, you know, made you think twice as far as American capabilities? Or, or adversary capabilities, just technology in the warfare context where you're like, I didn't know that that existed.

• 10:24Speaker 01

  Hundred percent. Yeah. So I think our technology is well ahead of what people know. I mean, I know it's well ahead of what people understand or think where, where we are significantly.

• 10:37Speaker 01

  And I, because just where I was, luck, right place, right time, I saw some of that. And, uh, yeah, there's, there's technology out there that I think would blow people's minds if they knew that we had that capability.

• 10:49Jesse Michels?

  And any examples?

• 10:52Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, the drone technology we have is pretty significantly better than people think.

• 10:58Jesse Michels?

  Right now, as we speak, there's this mystery drone craze. I would say clearly that some of these are not manmade, but you know, that depends on your priors and understanding of a lot of the kind of weirder stuff. But what did you see and what do you think we are capable of on the on the drone front?

• 11:14Speaker 01

  I think what we're seeing, just my opinion, uh, we're seeing our technology and drones respond to something that's not ours.

• 11:21Jesse Michels?

  Are there any drones disguising themselves as other objects that seem prosaic? Have you seen anything like that?

• 11:29Speaker 01

  Yes, there, there, there's technology that can be disguised to look like ordinary things that are drones and uh, ISR, uh, surveillance type platforms.

• 11:41Jesse Michels?

  That's pretty amazing. And so are the things, I'm assuming the things themselves are not shape shifting. They are.

• 11:47Speaker 01

  No, not that I saw.

• 11:48Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, they're creating a signature that resembles something more kind of ordinary.

• 11:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, it's there to make you think it's something else. I mean, it looks like a local thing that would be normal to anybody who lives in the area.

• 12:01Jesse Michels?

  So there's like a funny protest movement, um, run by this like trolling kid on social media and it's like, birds aren't real. And it's like that the birds are all like, you know, CIA spooks or something.

• 12:12Speaker 01

  I mean, hilariously accurate.

• 12:14Jesse Michels?

  That's wild. So you think that there are drones that can maybe mimic, I mean, even in DARPA, their initiatives towards biomimicry and like a lot, a lot of biological designs have actually inspired aircraft design, but you're worse kind of taking this a step farther and saying that certain reconnaissance devices actually look like and appear to look like animal, like birds and stuff.

• 12:38Speaker 01

  Why wouldn't it? Why wouldn't that be a natural way of disguising your, your technology or what you're trying to monitor someone without them knowing you're monitoring them? Yeah, anything natural in the environment is. Is where you'd want to hide that, so.

• 12:52Jesse Michels?

  It's pretty intense. You also have worked and occasionally still work at Area 51, right? The kind of legendary flight testing site, I think it was created in the 1950s, mainly actually to test, I think, originally the U-2, but then, you know, other exotic aircraft on up from there. Just recently, another Green Beret was in the news under more unfortunate circumstances. Matthew Livelberger executed a stranger-than-fiction car bombing, but with fireworks and a cyber truck in front of Trump Tower in Las Vegas on New Year's Day 2025. After the incident, podcaster Sean Ryan had a guest on named Sam Schumate, claiming that

• 13:33Jesse Michels?

  Matthew had emailed him, saying that the New Jersey drones that the entire country has been confused about for the last two months are actually state-of-the-art gravitic propulsion drones from China. Controversy ensued, but Sean Ryan and Schumate have now been vindicated by the FBI. It looks like this email was, in fact, sent by Livelberger, the Las Vegas bomber. Having said that, I don't think we should wholesale accept all of the contents of this email. Chinese electrogravitic drones carrying large payloads that could vaporize New York or DC at the drop of a hat, hovering with impunity around civilian airspace, feels

• 14:13Jesse Michels?

  hard to believe, or at the very least, should be further investigated and not just accepted at face value. But here's where I probably break from the consensus. I am confident that the US and probably China have at least cracked anti-gravity in laboratory settings. I know that sounds insane, but if you don't believe me, check out my videos on the great mid-century inventor Thomas Townsend Brown and with aviation journalist Nick Cook. There's an abundance of open-source evidence out there that we can affect gravity in clear ways with high-voltage electricity. But I digress. How does any of this tie together with Randy's story? Well, the crazy connection here is this very weird email sent by Matthew displays the coordinates of America's

• 14:59Jesse Michels?

  Gravitic Propulsions Operations Center. The coordinates are at Area 51. Now, this alone doesn't prove anything. You can Google Area 51's coordinates. The reason this is interesting is because Randy, who is also a Green Beret and our interview subject today, has worked at Area 51. And he told me off air that he's seen a black triangle hovering around at the notorious flight testing facility that he believed was employing exotic electro-gravitic propulsion. What has that experience been like?

• 15:30Speaker 01

  Anybody that works out at that area, they, we call it the test site or the test range. It's, uh, Area 51 is just one component of that entire huge sprawling compound base area. It's a testing range where they tested the first, some of the first nukes, you know? And, uh, it's a really cool place to check out historically. I mean, that, that's one of the coolest things I think about it is seeing those sites where they detonated nukes, where they had the Marines like embedded right next to where the explosions were going off and they were dug in. And you can literally see the area where the explosion happened and where they were dug in and benches where people sat and watched nuclear explosions go off and didn't realize how much danger they were in at the time.

• 16:14Jesse Michels?

  I actually just did a piece with this guy, Robert Hastings, who wrote an amazing book called UFOs and Nukes. And this guy documents 167 whistleblowers, guys who are cleared to some of our most sensitive stuff. And they're basically tasked with guarding the crown jewels of American defense and our nuclear assets. And they're screened for being the picture of mental health. In certain cases, they have their finger on the nuclear button. And so they have to be on what's called the PRP program and report if they're taking Ibuprofen, for God's sakes. Like they're, you know, very of sound mind. And they consistently report seeing UFOs showing up, not only in and around, uh, nuclear assets, but actually in and around the plume of nuclear blasts and atmospheric tests.

• 16:59Jesse Michels?

  And a lot of these guys are older. So like, I think atmospheric tests were banned at some point mid-century. But like,

• 17:04Speaker 01

  Right.

• 17:04Jesse Michels?

  So if this was going on at Area 51, you have to think that, uh, you know, that's gotta be a very interesting place as far as maybe UFO activity as well.

• 17:13Speaker 01

  Well, sure. And I mean, I always wondered too, because it's, obviously it's a great place to test technology because there's not a lot of eyes on it. So it makes sense that that's what they use it for. And then obviously that's what they did. The SR-71, F-117.

• 17:26Speaker 01

  Our programs, I think, were heavily tested out there. And then I'm sure a lot of the exotic tech is tested out there as well. But then there's also the stuff that we don't, we don't quite know what it is that's showing up. And I think it's incredibly interesting. And personally, I mean, being out there. So my, my role out there is to help as an opposition force for some units that are training for operations overseas. And that's about as deep as I can go into it. It's nothing super cool. It's fun, cool guy stuff to do for guys like us, the guys like me that like to shoot guns and get in a gunfight or pretend gunfight in this case. But um, and, and get to run into old buddies of mine that I worked with in, in

• 18:12Speaker 01

  special forces teams. And so it's, it's cool. And while out there, we have had a couple crazy incidents. I'll speak to one in particular, just because I don't think it's, uh, it's too, too crazy to speak about. But basically, um, I had brought, I brought some of the guys out with me. We're operating under somebody's Q clearance while out there. Uh, one of the commanders of the unit that was coming in by helicopter, uh, unit landed and one of the cadre that oversees the, uh, their movement and kind of grading them on their performance and evaluating, uh, was standing next to some of my guys. And during that time, a, a green

• 18:54Speaker 01

  orb type object had flown over. And my buddy had seen it. And he looked up at the cadre that was there and mentioned if he asked him if he had seen it. And he said, he looked down at my buddy and said, are you sure you saw that? And my friend was like, yeah, I saw it as a green orb. He says, because if you did see it, we got a lot of paperwork to do. And, and my buddy kind of got the hint. And he said, yeah, maybe I didn't see it. And he's like, that's better. And they kind of brushed it off. So they obviously either knew what it was or knew not to talk about it. Yeah. And I don't know either or. I mean, we sign NDAs and stuff going out there. So, you know. There's not much more we say about it, but it's, it was interesting and I've seen a couple

• 19:38Speaker 01

  of things like that out there in my time working out there. They're, they're definitely cool.

• 19:43Jesse Michels?

  Well, the lack of shock on behalf of that officer, I think says it all, right? It's like, seems kinda like a routine thing for him to have seen. In fact, there was a meteor expert at the University of New Mexico named Lincoln La Paz, and in 1948, 49, he was basically studying green fireballs following the plume, radioactive debris, post-nuclear blasts across the US. There's another guy, researcher named Dan Wilson, who was also following up on this line of research. And so I think that's actually a fairly common thing when it comes to ufology and UFOs. And Lou Elizondo has also spoken about green fireballs. And in fact, I've seen a green fireball with Lou Elizondo.

• 20:26Speaker 01

  That's crazy, man. Yeah, you were mentioning that. That's, what, can you, what was that? What was the?

• 20:31Jesse Michels?

  We were hanging out at Lou's place, actually, in Wyoming, and Lou was, it was kinda later at night. We were like by his shed, just hanging out. And Lou is going deep on, and for, basically for the audience, for, you know, who might need context on this, Lou Elizondo is a guy who ran the official UFO investigation program under Harry Reid. It's called OSAP, kind of, I guess morphed into this program called ATIP. And, and he's since come out and kind of blown the whistle on some stuff around UFOs. And so, yeah, we're hanging out at his house, and he's going deep on how the sun is this nuclear fusion reactor, and specifically how it works and stuff. And then all of a sudden, we just see, I, it's hard to kind of place distance on these things, but we see this green fireball just

• 21:15Jesse Michels?

  shoot out into the sky. And we're just like, what the, like, this couldn't be weirder as far as what this, what we're talking about, who we're with, and seeing this happen.

• 21:23Speaker 01

  So dude, like, I know for a fact, for me, since, since my experience, I've definitely seen more stuff than, I mean, I didn't see anything before that. I never noticed, maybe I wasn't looking, but now I see shit all the time.

• 21:37Jesse Michels?

  That feels like the dirty little secret in UFO world, because it feels It's like a lot of people downplay their personal experiences because they want to maintain this like impartiality of like, I'm this perfect scientist.

• 21:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:52Jesse Michels?

  But the more you notice the thing, the more it does start to happen to you. And the deeper you get, you have a couple of drinks with, you know, anybody in this field. They start to say, yeah, things have gotten kind of trippy. Once I've started to look into this, which makes sense.

• 22:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:07Jesse Michels?

  Right? Like you have the video of like, you know, I think this like gorilla going across this video. And if you're not focused on the gorilla, you don't see the gorilla. So your attention is somehow fundamental to what you experience in life. So that sounds like that's happened with you as well.

• 22:21Speaker 01

  It's probably that same phenomenon. Like you buy a red car and then you see red cars or whatever, you know, whatever type of car you buy, you see that type of car all of a sudden everywhere.

• 22:29Jesse Michels?

  Exactly.

• 22:30Speaker 01

  Maybe it's just that we're looking now and we're more aware of it. So we're seeing it.

• 22:33Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. Tony Robbins, I think, was interviewed by Theo Von and he was like, notice everything red in the room. And if you were to do that right now, you notice everything red in the room and then you close your eyes.

• 22:44Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. What'd you see that was brown?

• 22:46Jesse Michels?

  What'd you see that was brown? You wouldn't really remember, but you would remember the red thing. So yeah, I think it's, yeah. Anyways, it's, it's, it's super fascinating. But that's wild. So you experienced that firsthand at Area 51. Any other technology? I mean, one, one area that might be worthy of discussion is one of the top five episodes for Joe Rogan. And, and, and the subject of a lot of mythology and lore and UFO world is Bob Lazar.

• 23:12Speaker 01

  Right.

• 23:12Jesse Michels?

  Who claimed to, claimed to work at Area 51, a special compartment of it called S4.

• 23:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:18Jesse Michels?

  Nobody knew what Area 51 was before Bob Lazar, Lazar came out. And so a lot of people are like, his story is totally legit. By the way, he claimed to basically work on reverse engineering UFOs.

• 23:30Speaker 01

  Right.

• 23:30Jesse Michels?

  And he's all sorts of interesting stuff like Element 115, which is this stable version of Moscovium was used for the propulsion. He talks about Gravity A, Gravity B. But he also was shown things about bodies being containers of souls and just all sorts of trippy out there stuff.

• 23:49Speaker 01

  Wild, man. Yeah. So like I've dug more into this stuff just since, since the experience and, and, uh, I mean, it's, I don't know about Bob Lazar's story, if it's true or not. I mean, it seems like he's telling the truth. He seems genuine. But I don't know. I don't know if you're gonna talk about your theory on that, but I think that's pretty. I think that's pretty cool, man. And I'd lean into that pretty heavily as far as like, that's probably what's going on, man.

• 24:13Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 24:13Speaker 01

  I mean, I don't know.

• 24:14Jesse Michels?

  I'm happy to say it.

• 24:16Speaker 01

  I think you should.

• 24:17Jesse Michels?

  Well, yeah, I mean, well, I want to focus this back on you.

• 24:21Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 24:21Jesse Michels?

  You're the real guest of honor, but I will. I think that Bob Lazar was kind of a limited hangout of a person. And so what I mean by that is he would provide high level frameworks where, you know, it's like that cicada challenge or whatever for the NSA or something. Or is it NSA or CIA or something?

• 24:41Speaker 01

  Right.

• 24:42Jesse Michels?

  Where it's like, if you have a really impressive mathematical and like puzzle, you know, piecing ability or whatever online, you get it and you get recruited or whatever. And so Bob Lazar comes out, he says gravity A, gravity B, says all these things about, you know, stable versions of these, you know, elements that like we're not aware of. And if you investigate that and jump the bar to the, you know, where you show a level of prowess or ability with these tech, highly technical concepts and actually kind of read the tea leaves on them, then maybe you get recruited to the program.

• 25:13Speaker 01

  Hundred percent. The reason why I think this is important for you to bring up, the reason I dug into that a little bit with you is because this type of stuff happens throughout the military as well. And so I'd like to give an example of that if I could.

• 25:24Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 25:26Speaker 01

  And also because I think it ties into maybe possibly why I was exposed to what I was exposed to.

• 25:31Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 25:32Speaker 01

  So, and I'll bring that full circle, but there was one point in the Q course, and again, the Q course is a training program to become a Green Beret. They randomly, and this isn't uncommon, so it didn't strike me as odd at the beginning of this, they just told us we were gonna do a run. And they said, just run until you're told to stop, do your best, right? It's a common way of them evaluating you. You don't know how far you're gonna go, do your best. That's a difficult, that adds a level of stress, okay? And that's what they're trying to do in a lot of these cases. So you start running, running down a path, a soft sand trail, which sucks to run on.

• 26:08Speaker 01

  And during the run, I remember as, as I'm going along the route, the trees had something posted on trees as I was running. And one tree had like a face posted, like a image, a headshot of somebody. I noticed it. And then another tree had a red seven. Another tree had a blue three. Another tree had another face. And so there's just every so often another tree had something posted on it. And so I'm mentally noting this like significant for some reason.

• 26:35Jesse Michels?

  Yes.

• 26:35Speaker 01

  Um, and at the end of the run, we, it just ended up being like a six mile run for time. Um, people that did well on the run got sectioned off, people who didn't got sectioned off. And people who did well on the run got brought to an area where we took a test. And the test was all the red numbers add, all the green numbers subtract, and which faces did you see? And so you go through and you do this quick test and then people that did well on the test sectioned off and so on. And it was an evaluation for another unit in the military above, you know, these units. And so they do that. They do that kind of stuff often, at least in the military. So I don't see why an agency like the CIA wouldn't recruit people the same type of way.

• 27:16Jesse Michels?

  Makes sense.

• 27:17Speaker 01

  Evaluate you without you being, realize you're being evaluated, you're going to get a genuine, you know, you can get genuine, good people or good at what you're looking for them to be good at.

• 27:26Jesse Michels?

  Totally.

• 27:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:27Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. And it's not enough to tip the hat to the adversary and might even throw them off the trail in a sense. But to some like initiated elite, you know, person, then all of a sudden you get into the program or something. So.

• 27:40Speaker 01

  And so, yeah, I think, I think those type of tests happen often. You know, especially in the military and especially at the level of special operations. I think they're looking for guys to just, to display certain characteristics to do other work.

• 27:52Jesse Michels?

  Yep.

• 27:53Speaker 01

  And if they identify that, then you end up, and, and I think maybe that's why I ended up where I ended up seeing what I saw. Maybe something triggered something that they said, let's see. And, and that happened.

• 28:05Jesse Michels?

  So why don't we set this up for the audience? What is Naval Surface Warfare Crane and why were you there to begin with?

• 28:11Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I, I didn't have any particular knowledge about that. It just ended up being the place where we were doing this training. This particular course was to do some advanced weapons training. Uh, my job in special forces was an 18 Bravo. 18 Bravos are your weapon sergeant on the team. And your responsibility is to be proficient on hundreds of different types of weapon systems. Foreign and domestic weapon systems. That's everything from handguns rifles up to rocket launchers and recoilless rifles, mortars, any type of manpower weapon system.

• 28:45Jesse Michels?

  So you can work over like a hundred weapons.

• 28:48Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 28:48Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 28:49Speaker 01

  I mean, but it's, it's, you know, you're just what you do. That's what you, your focus is. So, you know, so this was just another course and one of the focuses of this particular training was the Mark 44 minigun.

• 29:00Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 29:00Speaker 01

  That's a somewhat complicated weapon system. So it requires an extra level of training and we were there going over that. Uh, the scar had a new iteration of it and we were going over that. So just, just going over special operations, SOCOM weapons.

• 29:18Jesse Michels?

  Yep.

• 29:18Speaker 01

  And, uh, and more advanced training, like becoming an armor on some of those weapon systems, which allows you to do a higher level of care and maintenance for the team.

• 29:27Jesse Michels?

  Were you there with a unit or?

• 29:29Speaker 01

  I was there with a group of guys. Some guys there were armors for their unit, some tier one units, some special operations units, uh, some guys were a couple of green berets. Um, there are only a few of us, me and one other guy that ended up exposed to what we're exposed to.

• 29:45Jesse Michels?

  Um, and so, yeah, I'm gonna.

• 29:49Speaker 01

  I want to show you this.

• 29:50Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 29:51Speaker 01

  I think it's important to the valid, uh, validity of what I'm saying. So I don't know how you want to.

• 29:58Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. Well, for the, for the intense skeptic out there, you have Naval Surface Warfare Center, Crane Division and Randy Anderson. So there you go.

• 30:10Speaker 01

  And it's in my DD 214 as well, which is provided you with and.

• 30:13Jesse Michels?

  It's in your what?

• 30:14Speaker 01

  My DD 214.

• 30:15Jesse Michels?

  DD 214. Okay. So that's your, your record.

• 30:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. Everything done in the military is documented there. So.

• 30:20Jesse Michels?

  So you were, yeah. Clear you were there.

• 30:22Speaker 01

  By all intents and purposes, man, it was, it was a normal. Actually kind of rundown facility. It was, it's huge. Crane, Indiana is in the middle of fricking nowhere.

• 30:32Jesse Michels?

  And it's also known for its naval readiness in general, right? It's part of the nav sea program and I've heard, I don't know if this is true or comports with your understanding, but that there's some coordination between Crane and Wright Patterson Air Force Base.

• 30:46Speaker 01

  It makes sense based on some of the stuff that happened and there's also a civilian company that was tied to it. It's tied to some exotic stuff as well. So kind of dig into that and see.

• 30:56Jesse Michels?

  Well, there's a SAIC. That's a very interesting contractor with some history in that area. And I've also, I'm friends with actually Navy Special Warfare guy. And he'll say some pretty interesting stuff to me. He'll say like, the Air Force guys, those guys talk. And he's like, the Navy guys, they never speak and they experience way more weird. He was like, look at the tenure of nuclear Navy engineers. And he was like, tell me like, that's not the highest churn job you've ever experienced. He's like, those people are seeing crazy stuff underwater in these nuclear subs. And you think about it, you know, all the stuff around UFOs and nukes, people with Q clearances, they're above land.

• 31:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:37Jesse Michels?

  If you're in this contained vessel.

• 31:39Speaker 01

  Terrifying.

• 31:39Jesse Michels?

  Terrifying. In some remote, you know, part of the world or whatever. And then you see, you know, some sort of non-human entity sort of try to disrupt your comms or shut, shut down your power. I mean, right?

• 31:51Speaker 01

  I'm out.

• 31:51Jesse Michels?

  Right?

• 31:52Speaker 01

  If I can't shoot it.

• 31:54Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. Pretty crazy. So you're doing like kind of combat training stuff at Crane.

• 32:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, weapons training.

• 32:00Jesse Michels?

  Weapons training. Then what happens?

• 32:03Speaker 01

  A couple of days into the training, we were doing really well. Me and Scott were doing very well. And we got pulled to the side at the end of the day on a regular training day. And we stayed after and we're talking with the cadre instructors. And they, somebody else had come into the room and we thought we maybe were just getting some extra stuff because we were doing well. And they ended up telling us we're going to go check out some foreign weapons.

• 32:29Speaker 01

  We went to another part of the of the facility, went to another building in that building, went into an elevator, we took an elevator down, which that was the first odd thing is that it felt like we went down significantly further than like you would think you would. I mean, it was just awkward. It just stood out.

• 32:46Jesse Michels?

  You went way underground.

• 32:48Speaker 01

  I don't know if it was way, but it was it was further down than like a few floors, you know, so I don't know how far, I don't know how fast the elevator was going. I didn't know I needed to pay attention to it at the time. It was just, it's just something that stood out to me that it was we were going underground.

• 33:02Jesse Michels?

  And these are pretty well documented now across America, you know, underground military facilities. And so, okay, so you're going underground. Did you know that there was an underground complex at Crane before this? Okay.

• 33:14Speaker 01

  Absolutely not. No, it wasn't briefed on it. Didn't know about it.

• 33:17Jesse Michels?

  So what's going through your mind at this point? You're going down underground in an elevator with these random instructors?

• 33:23Speaker 01

  Well, it's end of the day, man, I'm a soldier and I do what I'm told. So I'm just just following orders and just going. Okay, we're gonna go here, go stand there, do this. But I'm be I'm observing, you know, I'm kind of, it's it's starting to feel different. You know, the mood has definitely become more serious, you know, the the people we were with were were seemed serious. And me and the other guy were just being quiet and, you know, not showing any emotion as we're trained to do. So we get under there, door opens, we go through a security type checkpoint. I remember the first thing that stood out to me was that the it was significantly more modern than everything up top. And that

• 34:05Speaker 01

  that was odd. The lighting and everything seemed more modern, just seemed more up kept.

• 34:12Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, kind of state of the art.

• 34:14Speaker 01

  Mm hmm. It was very streamlined how things operated down there. So you tell it was like very regimented, just like you walk on this, everybody walked on the right side to go down the hall, people coming this way, walking there, right. It's just, and there was like a line on the wall that you followed to different, you know how like the hospitals sometimes have like a line to follow to this, the emergency room. It was kind of that, that seemed like it was that. I mean, I wasn't 100% paying attention to that. I was just had observed it upon getting under there or getting down there. We moved through a security checkpoint, and then we started looking at some foreign weapons stuff. And they were telling us about. Uh, some Russian and Chinese weapon systems that were captured. I, I don't want to go too into

• 34:56Speaker 01

  the details of the stuff. Um, still within, uh, too kind of close proximity to that.

• 35:02Jesse Michels?

  Sure.

• 35:02Speaker 01

  That I don't, I don't want to go too far, but basically it was pretty advanced stuff that they had been using that was captured probably I would assume by agency types that were operating in the area and had come across stuff that it seemed exotic. It wasn't anything that would strike me as beyond what I'd expect us to find or people to have the capability of making, but it was, it was interesting for sure. Um, just the type of ammunition and the way the weapon systems operated. It was, there was some-

• 35:30Jesse Michels?

  Kind of, kind of exotic, unconventional.

• 35:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, unconventional.

• 35:33Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 35:34Speaker 01

  I would say not so much exotic, but unconventional for sure.

• 35:37Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 35:38Speaker 01

  Um, and so we, we talked about that for a little bit and they kind of, I felt like it was sort of, um, evaluating our thoughts on it. Maybe, uh, seeing, you know, we are weapons experts.

• 35:49Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 35:50Speaker 01

  And so maybe they just wanted another set of eyes on it. Maybe just evaluating to see what, what we came up with. Maybe they were evaluating us for, see how, what we could find out about. I don't know. I don't know.

• 36:01Jesse Michels?

  Right.

• 36:02Speaker 01

  You know, this is, like I said, I've thought about this a lot and-

• 36:04Jesse Michels?

  Maybe they knew and they were testing.

• 36:05Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 36:06Jesse Michels?

  They didn't know and they genuinely wanted your help.

• 36:08Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 36:08Jesse Michels?

  There's a whole host of possibilities.

• 36:09Speaker 01

  Absolutely. And I don't want to say it was one of the, I don't know.

• 36:12Jesse Michels?

  Sure.

• 36:12Speaker 01

  Um, but again, we did that for a bit.

• 36:16Speaker 01

  And then, uh-

• 36:16Jesse Michels?

  At any point, did you say, hey, why are we down here?

• 36:19Speaker 01

  Hell no.

• 36:19Jesse Michels?

  Just kinda, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 36:20Speaker 01

  And you wouldn't.

• 36:21Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 36:23Speaker 01

  It's not the way things are done. So-

• 36:24Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 36:25Speaker 01

  You just do.

• 36:25Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, totally.

• 36:26Speaker 01

  Do the thing.

• 36:26Jesse Michels?

  And if you're ever like, gonna be denied access to the most interesting stuff, it's by asking questions like that probably. So-

• 36:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'd bet.

• 36:34Jesse Michels?

  You probably just want to kind of go with it at that point. Okay. So you're looking at this exotic, or not exotic, but unconventional adversary technology.

• 36:41Speaker 01

  Yes. Um, and again, it was really interesting and, and I, I think we came up with a couple ideas, what we thought about it and, uh, purpose and functionality and-

• 36:52Speaker 01

  And then they they kind of the two guys we're with spoke for a little bit and then we and almost and again, I'm a lot of this is me trying to remember and so I don't know if I'm getting everything perfect. But in hindsight, looking back, I would assume maybe they were deciding if we're going to go further.

• 37:09Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 37:10Speaker 01

  Um, and they ultimately decided we would, I guess, because we we went down and ended up going through another security checkpoint. Which that was odd because we'd already gone through a significant level of security. And so I thought that was odd. This was more like going into a SCIF.

• 37:24Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 37:24Speaker 01

  Uh, what I would compare it to. And when you do that, you, I mean, everything gets, you take your watch off and anything electronics gone.

• 37:30Jesse Michels?

  Yep. Um, so for the audience, SCIF is secret compartmentalized information facility.

• 37:35Speaker 01

  Correct, yeah.

• 37:36Jesse Michels?

  And it's basically, it's like a Faraday cage on steroids so that any comms that take place within the SCIF are completely offline.

• 37:45Speaker 01

  Anything that goes into the SCIF.

• 37:47Jesse Michels?

  Can't come out.

• 37:47Speaker 01

  Can't come out and and yeah, so it's it's just a very protected facility. Um, for good reason. And so, yeah, it was, it was that level of of security, which is the highest level of security I've seen or dealt with. And so that that was strange too, because we'd already gone through a pretty robust security checkpoint to get under there.

• 38:06Jesse Michels?

  And are they checking your clearance at each point?

• 38:09Speaker 01

  No, uh, no, I mean, you're already, that's already done when we got to the training. So they know who we are.

• 38:15Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 38:15Speaker 01

  You know, and um, it was more just like, do you have anything right now on you? Yeah, that's what it felt like.

• 38:21Jesse Michels?

  Like a TSA on steroids sort of situation.

• 38:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, for sure. Um, but yeah, and then, uh, you go through that, you put your stuff in a box, it gets locked into a box. And then you go through another checkpoint area, a scan and whatever else, right? Um, not uncommon, but seemed highly unusual for for this.

• 38:42Speaker 01

  Um, after that, we moved on down another hallway and got into an area that had a marking on the wall. And said off-world technology.

• 38:53Jesse Michels?

  Said off-world technology.

• 38:56Speaker 01

  That, yeah.

• 38:57Jesse Michels?

  That's insane.

• 38:58Speaker 01

  So immediately that, I mean, immediately my bells go off.

• 39:02Jesse Michels?

  Was it engraved? Or was it, was it, did it look like it was written in marker or something?

• 39:09Speaker 01

  But it wasn't like it was like permanent. It was like somebody like stuck a placard in kind of.

• 39:14Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 39:14Speaker 01

  You know, like, so I don't know, it could have been, it could have been a setup. It could have been something just thrown together.

• 39:19Jesse Michels?

  Sure.

• 39:20Speaker 01

  But it could have been something that that's just how they had.

• 39:21Jesse Michels?

  But it said off-world technology.

• 39:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, that obviously immediately. Started to feel what um, what the fuck is going on, right? Um, yeah, so me and the guy are looking at each other. The other guy, that's there, he's another green beret. We're like, what the fuck, you know, kind of giving each other that look and uh. Yeah, we, that was, that was where the weird shit started.

• 39:47Speaker 01

  Um, so yeah, we go into, into the room and uh, the one room, these significantly higher. Level of technology, like the lighting even looked, you know, everything was just, it was more uh.

• 40:03Speaker 01

  Everything was, it was just a different vibe, man. I don't know how else to describe it. Like I said, the lighting was different. The walls had like maybe, I would assume some type of Faraday material. Like everything was just. A higher level of, of detail, you know? Um, the first object was a metallic basketball sized sphere. And it was above a podium and it was, looked like it was just levitating above the podium.

• 40:31Jesse Michels?

  Levitating above the podium. So there was space between this sphere and the podium itself.

• 40:37Speaker 01

  Correct. And I remember at one point like trying to angle myself, like, how is that?

• 40:43Jesse Michels?

  Do you think it could have been some sort of magnetic levitation? Okay.

• 40:47Speaker 01

  Maybe.

• 40:47Jesse Michels?

  But it's just levitating there.

• 40:49Speaker 01

  It was just levitating.

• 40:50Jesse Michels?

  Did it look like a prosaic, like, like this wood table where if you were to, you know, touch it, it would. Act like a normal object? Did it look holographic? What did it look like?

• 41:00Speaker 01

  It, so, okay, this is, that's a good question. Um, then what stood out to me was the, the way the metal looked. It looked unnatural.

• 41:12Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 41:13Speaker 01

  Was the, and I, I talked with Gurb about this and he, he kinda dug in on this. I'm like, dude, I don't know how to describe it.

• 41:19Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 41:19Speaker 01

  All I can tell you is it didn't look natural. It didn't look like anything I could compare it to.

• 41:24Jesse Michels?

  Interesting.

• 41:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:25Jesse Michels?

  So like it didn't, it almost looked like off-world.

• 41:29Speaker 01

  It fit the bill.

• 41:30Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 41:30Speaker 01

  And, and then also there was a, I mean, and this could have been anxiety or, or anything else, but uh, the energy in the room, man, was just different.

• 41:40Jesse Michels?

  What was, what was the feeling you got looking at this thing?

• 41:43Speaker 01

  Uh, just an unease, uneasy, uh, uncomfortable, ominous. That's the best way I can describe it.

• 41:52Jesse Michels?

  Did it feel powerful or, or conscious or did it feel like this inanimate object or?

• 41:59Speaker 01

  Didn't feel inanimate. It didn't feel conscious. It just felt like this was significant and it could have been the, the way that they brought us in. It could have been all the buildup. It could have been that.

• 42:09Jesse Michels?

  Do you have any extra context at this point? Did the instructors at any point, are they in the room with you by the way?

• 42:15Speaker 01

  They're acting like this is a normal Tuesday. That's what fucked me up even more. Like I, like that's, that was oddly very strange, man. Like this, I mean, I hadn't been exposed to anything like this before that or since, so.

• 42:26Jesse Michels?

  And they, they didn't say, so what you're about to experience is kinda trippy. They just took you into this room.

• 42:31Speaker 01

  And, and, and maybe that was part of the point. It could have absolutely just been something that triggered on a, a valuation for me and this guy. And they brought us out there to see if we'd react to the technology. That could have been a part of it.

• 42:42Jesse Michels?

  Do you ask them at any point?

• 42:44Speaker 01

  Well, they, so after a moment, I mean, have a moment to like kinda drink that in and then they, they were talking about, and they were kinda talking to us and each other. It, it felt just weird, man. Almost like it was, they were purposely making it awkward.

• 42:57Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 42:58Speaker 01

  I would say, but maybe it's just because I was in a weird situation.

• 43:02Jesse Michels?

  Do you know anything about these instructors as far as like, do they have physics background or military background?

• 43:07Speaker 01

  Um, most of them have military background. A lot of them come out of same type of special operations.

• 43:11Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 43:11Speaker 01

  We were in some, at least some of them, um, but they are, uh, civilian contracted companies.

• 43:19Speaker 01

  That are working for

• 43:19Jesse Michels?

  Gotcha.

• 43:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, for Crane.

• 43:21Jesse Michels?

  Gerb has come up with some really interesting research around how this is possibly SAIC and how they've done some contracting work with Crane in the past. And SAIC is pretty deep in consciousness research. In fact, they were one of there's the CIA has a psychic spy program. This is fully, by the way, declassified and known and on record. Psychic spy program, it ran from 1972 to 1995. Probably some version of it is still going on today. I have trouble believing that, you know, they actually sunsetted it fully. And

• 43:53Speaker 01

  Why wouldn't they? It was successful.

• 43:54Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And you have, you know, people like Joseph McMonigal, who's remote viewer number one, who won the Legion of Merit for over 200 instances in which he added to military intelligence. In fact, you have a quote from Jimmy Carter, who was president from 76 to 80, saying, "The craziest thing that I've ever experienced in my presidency was a remote viewer, her name, I believe, was Rosemary Smith. Basically, there was this TU-22 spy plane, Russian spy plane that had downed, it had gone down in Africa, all of Africa is the target. And this woman draws a three-square-mile radius in Zaire where they find the plane. And so, and he freaks out and he said, there's an audio of him saying this. And so for anybody out there, you should look into this.

• 44:39Jesse Michels?

  This is a real program. SAIC in Palo Alto was running a lot of the operations later for Stargate and the psychic spy program. So they're extremely interested in this. And our friend, UAP Gerb, has dug up a lot of research around SAIC's work with Crane. And there are other instances, by the way, of tests going on with people and their psionic connection. And there's a guy named Chris Bloodso, you're probably familiar with.

• 45:06Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 45:06Jesse Michels?

  North Carolina.

• 45:07Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 45:07Jesse Michels?

  A guy named

• 45:08Speaker 01

  Crazy story.

• 45:09Jesse Michels?

  Crazy story.

• 45:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:10Jesse Michels?

  And a guy named Tim Taylor is a NASA mission controller. We were talking about him last night, shows up in Bloodso's life.

• 45:16Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 45:16Jesse Michels?

  Shows him a piece of space material. And somehow Bloodso knows that it's like not from here.

• 45:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:24Jesse Michels?

  And then, and, and, and there's this interesting kind of reaction. And then Tim Taylor says, "Why you?" or something like he knows that at that point, Bloodso does actually have this genuine psychic ability or something.

• 45:36Speaker 01

  Well, dude, that's funny that you bring that up because I 100% when I saw that sphere. Could say that I would, if I had no other context, even though I had the off-world technologies label, if I had none of that, I would have been like, that's not from here.

• 45:52Speaker 00

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• 46:20Jesse Michels?

  Right. More context or corroboration that maybe your story isn't happening in a vacuum. There's a story of Yuri Geller, where, again, say what you will about the guy, I think there might have been some snake oil in some of the stuff that he was doing, but he was brought over by a guy named Andre Puharich, who was part of consciousness research going on in the US, but also was doing weird MKUltra stuff as well. He brings over Yuri Geller. Yuri Geller has a crazy story with Werner von Braun, who's the father of the German and American space programs, ran our Saturn program that took us to the moon, where von Braun shows him, again, a piece of space material in a safe, and Yuri Geller is able to deduce that this is not from here, or whatever. And so, this seems to be kind

• 47:05Jesse Michels?

  of this recurring trope.

• 47:07Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, I mean, I definitely felt that when I saw that. I did not say that. And I think they were, I think they were trying to see if we had a reaction to it. And, I mean, because there was an awkward moment of silence, like I said, and then they started talking about it. And maybe, maybe they were discussing it to get further reaction out of us, but they started talking about that it was recovered in a, from a craft that had crashed.

• 47:35Jesse Michels?

  They said that?

• 47:35Speaker 01

  They did say that.

• 47:36Jesse Michels?

  Wow. So they said this orb was actually recovered from a craft, but it itself was not the craft?

• 47:42Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 47:43Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 47:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:44Jesse Michels?

  So what do we think? I mean, did you extrapolate anything from that as far as what role the orb played in the craft's overall working?

• 47:52Speaker 01

  So I want to be careful how, what I, what I say I remember and don't remember, because this is a while ago, but. I want to say I remember them talking about it being a control mechanism for the craft. Some type of control mechanism for the craft. And I don't remember if they had said that to each other or to us. Like I said, there was kind of a two-way conversation happening. They were talking a little bit back and forth to each other and then talking, giving us bits of information also. So I don't remember exactly how that came out, but I do remember them saying that it was potentially part of a control mechanism and that it interacted with consciousness. I wanted to ask a question, I didn't, but I'm like, how would that, how would they know that?

• 48:33Jesse Michels?

  Right. Wow. So, okay, you see this orb levitating on this podium. Then what happens?

• 48:39Speaker 01

  Um, so we, we spent a little time there and then we went to the next object. And it was another metallic object, very, very strange looking, same type of vibe. It looked, it's hard to describe because I didn't get a full view of it, but it looked like something you could like reach in and grab and pick up. And maybe it was something that would, uh, you could put on your arm. Or so something that would use it, would have to use it with their arm. That's the best way I can describe it.

• 49:12Jesse Michels?

  Like a gauntlet.

• 49:13Speaker 01

  Like a gauntlet, yeah. This is a good analogy, or maybe something that would like be like a shield. But, but, uh, and it had like a, a crystal type of, uh, display screen. Hmm. I don't know if it was a display screen, it was a square rectangular, uh, looked like it would potentially be a display screen. And it was sitting, it was not levitating, it was sitting on a, like a table.

• 49:35Jesse Michels?

  Uh huh.

• 49:36Speaker 01

  And at that point, like I'm looking at it and it, and it almost looked like a mirage type of effect. And in that, above that display screen were these hieroglyphic symbols that I started to see appear.

• 49:50Jesse Michels?

  Why?

• 49:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:52Jesse Michels?

  Hieroglyphic symbols.

• 49:54Speaker 01

  That's the best way I can describe them.

• 49:56Jesse Michels?

  And.

• 49:56Speaker 01

  I don't know what they were.

• 49:58Jesse Michels?

  Anything going through your mind at this point as you're seeing?

• 50:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, shit and bricks. That is terrifying. I mean.

• 50:06Jesse Michels?

  And are you trying to figure out?

• 50:08Speaker 01

  I'm just trying to be cool, man.

• 50:09Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 50:10Speaker 01

  I'm trying to not look like I'm trying to act normal. I don't know what's happening. I don't know what I'm, what's, what this is for. I'm just trying to act like everything's fine.

• 50:19Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. And in retrospect, have you been able to deduce what any of these symbols were or draw them up? Or what they mean or?

• 50:28Speaker 01

  So I've, I've randomly, like, like I told you, I, I meditate and all this stuff now and, and during meditations I've had a couple of times where they've come, I've thought about it and they've come into my, my thoughts. Also, the lawyer.

• 50:41Jesse Michels?

  Danny Sheehan.

• 50:41Speaker 01

  Danny Sheehan, yeah, he had talked about them and they, he had drawn some that looked a lot like what I saw.

• 50:47Jesse Michels?

  A lot like what you saw. So for context for the audience, Danny Sheehan in 1974 or five was taken into a SCIF, again, secret compartmentalized information facility in Washington DC. Uh, I believe at the behest of the incoming Carter administration, so it might, might've even been 76. And he was shown basically the Blue Book files.

• 51:08Speaker 01

  Right.

• 51:09Jesse Michels?

  And he's looking through the Blue Book files and he sees this UFO crashed into the side of a mountain.

• 51:15Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 51:15Jesse Michels?

  And it's the dead of winter and there's some air force officers present. And he sees on the rim of the UFO, these hieroglyphic symbols.

• 51:23Speaker 03

  The UFO had, had crashed into this field and there was snow and the dirt was all turned up and stuff. And the, the UFO itself was stuck in the side of this big embankment. In one of the photos, I could see these symbols that were all around the base of the, of the dome. And I took out the yellow pad and I opened it up to the inside cardboard of it and I slid it under the, the microfiche machine and I focused it so that I could see the symbols. Uh, and then I traced the symbols exactly, uh, verbatim, you know, all the way around this, the half of the, the, the dome that I could see. And I just put them all, I just traced all of them.

• 52:06Speaker 01

  I saw that show and what he had drawn is very close to what I seen. And also, I want to touch on something else that this correlates with documentary that I saw on YouTube about DMT.

• 52:16Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 52:17Speaker 01

  And these guys were doing, uh, they were doing experiments with DMT and they found that everybody was seeing these same symbols when they did shine a laser a certain way and, and kind of did a, diffractions the laser.

• 52:29Jesse Michels?

  Yep.

• 52:30Speaker 01

  In a way that you do like the double slit experiment.

• 52:32Jesse Michels?

  Yes.

• 52:32Speaker 01

  And in, in the diffraction, they saw these symbols and those symbols are the same.

• 52:37Jesse Michels?

  That's fascinating. Yeah. Danny Jones does this amazing, uh, show on this. And these guys are, they're doing DMT. They're showing, they're showing a laser in a specific way exactly to create this diffraction effect. And then their kind of interpretation of this is like, they're seeing almost like the source code, like a binary code behind what we're seeing, which that sounds absolutely absurd, but if you take physicists like John Wheeler seriously.

• 53:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:05Jesse Michels?

  Or people like Claude Shannon, who wasn't really more kind of information theory, but like, maybe the universe is more information theoretic at its, at its core and we are rendering it in real time. And maybe when you take DMT, you, you ascend into these higher states and you can actually look at the source code itself.

• 53:23Speaker 01

  Yeah. And what does it mean then if that source code is in the same language of whatever I saw on that device and whatever

• 53:30Jesse Michels?

  Well, that, yeah.

• 53:31Speaker 01

  Danny saw on that craft.

• 53:32Jesse Michels?

  That makes me think that these things off-world might be a slight misnomer and it might be a, an interior fabric to the reality that we're in every day or something, something even more fundamental to what we're seeing or something.

• 53:48Speaker 01

  Probably touching on something.

• 53:49Jesse Michels?

  But when you're looking at these hieroglyphics, you obviously don't have the context of the Danny Sheehan interview or whatever.

• 53:56Speaker 01

  Nothing at that point.

• 53:56Jesse Michels?

  So are you, what's going, what's the first thing that goes through your head as to like what this is?

• 54:01Speaker 01

  Um, well, first thing is like, am I hallucinating or is, am I seeing that I was squinting and looking at it? And I think even one of the guys was with us and asked me like, cause he saw me looking at it and asked me if are you, everything all right? Or I don't remember exactly what he said, but I think he kind of inquired to why I was looking at it. And I was like, oh yeah. And I just kind of brushed it off and, you know, forgot about it. But I mean, not only did I see the symbols, but they were like changing in like to different symbols. So there's, there was a movement to them as well. So they weren't just like static.

• 54:35Jesse Michels?

  It's almost like a, like a, they were shuffling in and out of-

• 54:38Speaker 01

  You ever see, uh-

• 54:39Jesse Michels?

  Or like in the-

• 54:39Speaker 01

  Predator?

• 54:40Jesse Michels?

  Uh, yeah, yeah.

• 54:41Speaker 01

  You know how when he has that little communicator thing and he like gonna blow himself up and it like does a little countdown?

• 54:46Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 54:46Speaker 01

  It kinda looked like that.

• 54:48Jesse Michels?

  Do you feel like it was like a holographic display or like the technology showing it? Did it feel prosaic or did it feel like just something you'd never seen before as far as the display itself?

• 54:58Speaker 01

  Holographic sure could have been, but it was very crisp. You know, like where I would feel, I feel like the holographic technology, I've seen it like CES or whatever. It's, it's almost like kind of hard to-

• 55:09Jesse Michels?

  Like you can see that it's a light-

• 55:11Speaker 01

  You can tell that it's not, yeah, that it's not a solid object.

• 55:14Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 55:14Speaker 01

  Or not a physical object.

• 55:15Jesse Michels?

  Yes, you could, you could see in that case that it was like a light display. And in this case, does it almost feel like it's like part of reality itself or something?

• 55:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's a good way to put it.

• 55:25Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 55:26Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 55:27Jesse Michels?

  And, oh man, there's so many places to take this. Like, we were talking last night and a lot of the early cryptographers, if you look at like, I think he's a 14th century guy, Trithemius-

• 55:38Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 55:39Jesse Michels?

  Would write about cryptography in the context of angel communication. And even today, like we're in LA right now.

• 55:47Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 55:48Jesse Michels?

  There are all sorts of people who say that they feel like they're communicated with by ETs or angels. Maybe those are, you know, the same thing.

• 55:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:54Jesse Michels?

  Via these like, you know, numerology, 111, 222, 333, you know, all sorts of people sort of say things like that and you can kind of laugh it off.

• 56:02Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 56:03Jesse Michels?

  But that is actually a longstanding tradition. Queen Elizabeth had a chief spy and magician.

• 56:09Speaker 01

  Right.

• 56:09Jesse Michels?

  His name was John Dee and he claimed to communicate with angels via what he would call Anakian language. And I showed you some of these symbols.

• 56:18Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 56:19Jesse Michels?

  Aleister Crowley said, you know, similar thing and he's probably a darker version of this.

• 56:22Speaker 01

  Right.

• 56:23Jesse Michels?

  You know, not necessarily the most savory guy. But, um, he would communicate with these, you know, Anak- and through Anakian language. And you said that these symbols looked somewhat like what you had seen.

• 56:34Speaker 01

  Yes. Yeah.

• 56:35Jesse Michels?

  That's fascinating.

• 56:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. I have a whole bunch of different perspectives that I think about because of seeing all this stuff after the fact.

• 56:43Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 56:43Speaker 01

  And I, and I, and our minds are very fallible, you know, and so I, I don't know how much. I don't want to overspeak it and, and add something that's not true on accident.

• 56:55Jesse Michels?

  Well, I think the core details are remarkable unto yourself.

• 56:57Speaker 01

  I like trying to keep it to that because I don't want to, to, to screw with it, but it would appear like it's, it's some kind of communication towards. For sure. It's trying to tell you something.

• 57:10Jesse Michels?

  Did you feel like anything got downloaded into you or you were, you received a message or something?

• 57:16Speaker 01

  Not at that point. What definitely I could say after the fact is that it changed everything for me after that. And I don't know that it was because of the objects or because of what I was supposed, or if it was just because it made me think differently and led me down a different path.

• 57:32Jesse Michels?

  So what happens at that point? Do you turn to these instructors and you say, hey, guys, what the hell was that? You just get let out of the room? What happened?

• 57:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. So they, we discussed a little bit more stuff. I remember they, they spoke about the object a little. It got brought up that, uh, that somebody was potentially harmed in the retrieval of that item.

• 57:51Jesse Michels?

  Okay. The gauntlet or the?

• 57:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, the second item, um, that it had discharged some kind of energy that somebody had been harmed or even possibly killed. And they were, they were discussing that. And then, uh, we went back through the security checkpoints. We, we got upstairs. We were told not to discuss it with anybody else in the class. They were pretty serious when they told us that. And, um, I'm pretty sure in our initial, whenever you go to like a military course, initially like the first day or two is like admin stuff. And so you're filling out all your, your paperwork and getting everything ready to start the class and the training. And so I'm sure we saw, you don't read all that stuff, especially when you go to class after class. Um, so I'm sure we signed NDAs and stuff in that beginning part. We didn't sign anything additional after that.

• 58:35Speaker 01

  So there was nothing, nothing remarkable about that. We were just told not to discuss it with the class and then or not to discuss it outside of that.

• 58:43Jesse Michels?

  So that was it?

• 58:44Speaker 01

  That was it.

• 58:46Jesse Michels?

  Go back to your normal life.

• 58:47Speaker 01

  Go back to your normal life. I never was exposed to anything else again. It never got brought up again. I never spoke to the other Green Beret again. He was from a different team, a different group, and we never spoke about it again.

• 58:58Jesse Michels?

  I now personally know from some contacts in Navy Special Warfare that Naval Surface Warfare Crane does deal in the most exotic adversary weaponry. It also deals with the DOE, the Department of Energy, and our nuclear capabilities. And it frequently coordinates with Wright Patterson Air Force Base, which is just a three-hour drive away. In fact, my contacts told me that if Wright Patterson is the center of the Air Force's most exotic off-world reverse engineering efforts, Naval Surface Warfare Crane is the center of the Navy's off-world reverse engineering efforts. All of this just further corroborates Randy's story. And where have we heard of off-planet technology before?

• 59:39Jesse Michels?

  Well, Harold Malmstrom, a top advisor to JFK, Nixon, LBJ, and Ford, claimed that he was personally briefed on other-world technologies by Richard Bissell of the CIA. This story is a huge deal, given Malmstrom's unimpeachable credentials. And Richard Bissell founded and set up Area 51 on behalf of the CIA. Could Malmstrom and Bissell's other-world technology now be called off-world technology? The same off-world technology that Randy saw? Why come out now and why, why talk to me about it?

• 1:00:12Speaker 01

  A good friend of mine, Mike Herrera, came out. I saw David Grush was brave enough to come out. That guy had some really high-level information and

• 1:00:23Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:23Speaker 01

  and took a lot of risk doing that. And who am I to protect my little story? I think it's important as part of the story. And, you know, I think it's important to tell it because it adds to the credibility and of all these guys that are doing it. So I just think it's, it's the right thing to do. Hopefully, there's other people that have then can explain what that was. I mean, that would be some nice closure for me to be able to find out if that was actually off-world tech.

• 1:00:48Jesse Michels?

  How has your life changed since that experience? Because even though you weren't able to speak about it again, you never experienced anything like it where you were maybe shown secret tech in a classified facility. I can imagine that just being extremely ontologically shocking to the point where your aperture, your measurement tool that is what you see and are interested in opens up.

• 1:01:12Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, yeah, immediately that changed for me. I got back that night later than everybody else, obviously, to the barracks and I couldn't sleep and I sat up all night thinking about, like, does this mean aliens are real? Like, what does this mean? And I just, it was absolutely shocking to my state of awareness and my belief systems. And it took a bit, it took a bit for me to wrap my mind around that.

• 1:01:40Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:40Speaker 01

  What helped was it kind of sent me down the rabbit hole of all this stuff. I started digging into the other stories. I started taking them maybe more seriously and not just brushing them off as bullshit. You know, and so it did, it did open my aperture. It did allow me to start looking at other things. Then I started, we talked about the Stephen Grif stuff and you talked about consciousness and meditation being a component of communications. I started meditating and all those things have helped benefit me in my life in significant ways.

• 1:02:12Jesse Michels?

  So it's almost been healing in some sense or something?

• 1:02:16Speaker 01

  Initially, it wasn't and because of that, I think it ultimately turned out to be, yeah.

• 1:02:21Jesse Michels?

  I think that's a common story of you experience something kind of paranormal. It shocks you, it busts you out of your comfort zone. And then you realize your comfort zone was actually kind of limited and not always the most positive orientation towards the world. And this opens you up to all these other possibilities and can be dark and scary and lonely, but it also leads you down kind of a more spiritual path.

• 1:02:44Speaker 01

  I think the big component of that was I was so in my ego at those times, like, obviously, I did jobs like being a fireman and being a Green Beret, not because I wanted recognition for that stuff. I did it because I wanted to help people and do something good for people. That's what drove me to those careers. But also, there was a part of me that enjoyed. Being recognized as that, as that person, right? Um, like people look at firemen like your local heroes and Green Berets are badasses and that, I thought that was cool. Um, after that, that happened and I, and I, like I told you last night, I kinda had a sort of an ego death, I would call it, and I didn't give a shit about any of that anymore.

• 1:03:27Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:28Speaker 01

  But, but it allowed me to appreciate the things I've done more because it wasn't anymore about like what people thought about it. It was just because it was the right thing to do and I felt good about, even better about it.

• 1:03:38Jesse Michels?

  Sounds pretty positive.

• 1:03:39Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:03:39Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. And, uh, meeting Michael Herrera, how, how did that come about? For context for the audience, Michael Herrera has gone on a couple of podcasts, probably most notably Sean Ryan. And this is a guy who was definitely deployed in Indonesia. He was with his unit and he sees a craft.

• 1:04:00Speaker 04

  What I remember is kind of like a pyramid shape at the top like this because I remember seeing some shading and then it had corners, right? And I remember seeing these vents, at least that's what it looks like on each of the corners like this. There's a vent here and it was like it was positioned on the lines like this.

• 1:04:22Speaker 04

  And then on each corner, when this thing took off, it had lights that would pop on, which would have been like red, yellow, green and blue are the only ones I remember. It kinda had a line that went like this and, uh, it had some sort of scale pattern that it, you know, I estimate is octagonal, but it could be, it could honestly be circular, it could be square. I wasn't close enough to depict it. This was the blackest, darkest thing that I have ever seen in my life.

• 1:04:56Jesse Michels?

  All of a sudden, this like what he thinks maybe is this DOE, Department of Energy, paramilitary unit.

• 1:05:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:03Jesse Michels?

  With far superior weaponry and kind of apparel, shows up, basically swears his unit to secrecy and takes control of the situation. He was later backchanneled with. From somebody claiming to be part of the quote unquote legacy UFO program. And this person says, hey, you saw some really gnarly stuff out there. What we were doing is actually, and this is where it gets dark and weird. Rounding up people from disaster zones like Indonesia at the time. And testing their psionic abilities, so their ability to interact with these exotic crafts.

• 1:05:44Jesse Michels?

  So that we could maybe, you know, basically do flight testing with with these people. And again, it's just another data point for your story. Because you're talking about this kind of mind matter, interaction, connection. And they're doing that stuff in Indonesia. And this is a guy, by the way, Michael Herrera, correct me if I'm wrong, because you know him well. I think he runs a very successful business in Colorado. Like he is like, it's literally zero reason. If anything, he's lost business over coming out.

• 1:06:13Speaker 01

  He did not, yeah, it doesn't benefit him to do this. Like he did it because same reason I'm doing it. It's it was the right thing to do. Yeah, his story is crazy, man. Like definitely people should look into that.

• 1:06:25Jesse Michels?

  Fascinating.

• 1:06:26Speaker 01

  Like, who knows how much dark stuff's really going on tied to all this? And if that's why they they fight to keep this secret, part of this so compartmentalized and secret. I don't know, man.

• 1:06:36Jesse Michels?

  And how'd you meet him? Was it through your newfound interest in kind of out there stuff from your experience?

• 1:06:43Speaker 01

  Well, yeah. And then some of the stuff he talked about, like he brought up some of the the stuff that the unit had. And I knew some of the, I added some stuff that I thought maybe we chatted on social media. And then kind of just became friends through that.

• 1:06:57Jesse Michels?

  Okay. Yeah, it's it's interesting. Once you kind of come out of the woodwork, stick your head out of the water. You see, oh, there maybe there's some other people who've experienced some pretty crazy stuff. I've found through my own, you know, research in this area. I think the common misconception is civilians, they're conspiratorial. People in the government, they're like these normies or something. It's the opposite.

• 1:07:20Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 1:07:20Jesse Michels?

  People in the government are more conspiratorial than people outside of the government. And I think it's because there are people like you, you're, you're the extreme version of this. But there are so many people like you who've experienced weird stuff while working in the government. Where, and then it's like this kind of, don't look over there, but like you kind of file it away forever. And you kind of saw the little thing in the, in the room, you weren't supposed to look at or whatever. And there's a lot of that.

• 1:07:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like, let me say like peering behind the curtain, like, once you do that, like you can't go back.

• 1:07:48Jesse Michels?

  Can't go back. I think we're both aware, and it's kind of an open secret at this point. I mean, you have Ross Colthart saying publicly on News Nation, there's a story, it's going to break in January. You know, things are going to get kind of crazy. It seems like an open secret in UFO disclosure world, that a lot's going to come out in this area.

• 1:08:11Speaker 01

  It is.

• 1:08:11Jesse Michels?

  And I, I think both of us feel that that could be extremely positive and extremely negative. And it's a Pandora's box. And I've always formerly been on the side of release as much as we can, because I think the public deserves to know the truth. But then it's, it's funny, as you get to this kind of exciting, you know, things are bursting at the seams tipping point. It also gets a little scary and you realize that there is something adaptive about materialist reductionism. And thinking that this world we live in is extremely limited and just like random atoms bouncing off of one another. Like there's something actually very adaptive about that from like leading your life in a normal way on a day to day basis.

• 1:08:56Jesse Michels?

  And so how do we lead this in a, in a, in a positive way?

• 1:08:59Speaker 01

  Obviously, based on what I'm doing, my belief is that the truth is what we all need to fight for, right?

• 1:09:07Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:07Speaker 01

  Getting the truth out, and I think it's important. But also maybe there is a, maybe there is a component of this that's, there's a reason why some of this was kept back. Maybe there is a.

• 1:09:20Speaker 01

  And I could say that there certainly is part of it that if was told to everyone would would change reality, but ultimately it needs to happen. I just think there we have to be ready for it as well.

• 1:09:35Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:36Speaker 01

  I don't know what that looks like, but I think what you're doing is is a huge part of that. I mean, getting awareness out there about it, talking about it. Our reality might not be what we think. And we might have, we might have stumbled across this historically in the past, and it might have been bad then, you know?

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• 1:10:22Jesse Michels?

  Well, the point you're getting at, I think, is the fact that we're not alone in the universe is not the tip of the spear. That's not the thing that it is funny. You hear reporters like Ross Colthar, Jeremy Corbell, people who are honestly closer than people like me, maybe a little more risk averse as far as speaking to people in and around the quote unquote legacy UFO program. And it seems like they always get to a point in the conversation at the end of the conversation where the person on the inside says, you would not be pro disclosure if he knew everything I knew. And I worry that there's actual merit to that. I do, because I think we're dealing with sacred spiritual things, ontological

• 1:11:07Jesse Michels?

  truths. And at least in the military context, you're talking about that in a

• 1:11:13Jesse Michels?

  Using that in instrumental, you know, weaponistic, you know, ways that are kind of not sacred, you know, like for our kind of brutal, you know, uh, uh, needs and desires and geopolitical realities. And that's weird territory.

• 1:11:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, man, I think, I think there's a lot of merit to that. There's things I wouldn't want my, my son, for example, to know. I wouldn't want him to know that that's a true part of reality. So what does that mean for everyone? I don't know. It's a tricky slippery slope.

• 1:11:45Jesse Michels?

  It's extremely tricky because like you drive around LA, you drive around any major city, Las Vegas, any major city in the US and you look around. And from a kind of architecture, infrastructure perspective, most of these places have not been, they're crumbling. They haven't been updated since the sixties and seventies. And now we have, it's interesting, the National Science Foundation officially coming out. Saying we're looking into extended electrodynamics and that is, uh, basically this new paradigm in science that involves a scalar field, exotic electromagnetic wave types. That get into like, you know, the works of Tesla, this kind of unknown guy named Thomas Townsend Brown, who's now probably being vindicated.

• 1:12:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:29Jesse Michels?

  And you're talking about the ability to manipulate gravity through electromagnetism and do all sorts of stuff through, you know, high speed rail. Let's bring the Concord back with, with, with, with flight that, you know, get to Europe in an hour or whatever. And so that's really important, right? That's important. And ontological truth is important. And then there are, you know, risk factors as well. And so it's this weird technological forcing function where it can be really good and it can be really bad.

• 1:12:58Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I mean, I sure as hell don't know the answer. I just, I hope that we're contributing in a positive way.

• 1:13:05Jesse Michels?

  But I think we have to listen to the people closest to the action on these things. And so it's like the, the experiencers, you're an experiencer, at least of the technology. And most of those people say, they come out saying, We're getting a warning that, you know, these things care about our nuclear facilities because that is the center of the apocalypse. If you were to place the end of the world anywhere, it would be at these, these Q clearance facilities where we could blow up the world.

• 1:13:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:32Jesse Michels?

  And so the fact that they're showing up there is probably a warning. It's not, they're not, I don't think they're prepping the battle space. I think they are like doing recon on our abilities. I think they're saying, don't blow yourselves up. But I could be right. That's again, our, our interpretation, but.

• 1:13:45Speaker 01

  Well, yeah. And so I can look at that both ways because I could look at it from, from just my human, open heart way of looking at it and say, yeah, I agree. And then the tactical mindset I have tells me, but we don't prepare for the best case scenario. We prepare for the worst case scenario.

• 1:14:02Jesse Michels?

  Yes.

• 1:14:03Speaker 01

  And so what is that? And that is they are prepping the battlefield. So we have, we have to observe and be aware and be ready.

• 1:14:09Jesse Michels?

  Sure. So interesting. I mean, we talked about Diana Pasulka, this religious studies professor.

• 1:14:14Speaker 01

  So cool, man.

• 1:14:14Jesse Michels?

  She's amazing. And she wrote a book about modern UFO phenomena as a religious phenomenon. And she meant to write about it as a psy-op, a psychological op. She was like, I think this is probably all fake. Then she falls into it and she's like, oh my God, this is very real.

• 1:14:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:28Jesse Michels?

  And it's this interesting thing where you stare at the abyss long enough and starts to stare back or whatever. You fall into it. And she's like, oh my God, this, this becomes real and almost realizes that what we are looking at now is what a lot of divine contact experiences have been in the past. And she talks about Saint Francis of Assisi.

• 1:14:46Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:14:46Jesse Michels?

  Who sees this flaming torch, you know, orb thing on Mount Laverne in, I think 12th or 13th century Italy. And it's to him, it's this forcing function towards God. And he actually has electrom, what seems like electromagnetic radiation as a result of this experience, what we would now call that.

• 1:15:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:08Jesse Michels?

  And, and then actually writes in his diary, the last thing he writes is the Greek letter Tau, which means conversion. And so it's like this force, it's like he had this angelic experience and it's this forced conversion to Christianity. And then it's called the stigmata because there was a stigma around his experience. And they talk about modern UFO abduction cases. There's this big stigma and there's this like, you know, desire to not disclose and this, you know, it's so fascinating.

• 1:15:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I especially like a lot of the stuff she talks about when she talks about these, all these people that have been key contributors to like rocketry and and the way that they got their ideas and that's wild, man.

• 1:15:49Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, that the fathers.

• 1:15:50Speaker 01

  What are we missing? Like, what, what do I need to be doing?

• 1:15:53Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:53Speaker 01

  I'm not doing, you know, like, that's, that's kind of shit I started digging into and, you know, I mean, there's something to it.

• 1:15:59Jesse Michels?

  Well, the intersect, whenever somebody's doing something kind of trippy or unconventional, but they're also a key contributor in a conventional sense to a core program or capability, you have to look into that. And so in this case, the fathers of all of the space programs, American space program is a guy named Jack Parsons founded Jet Propulsion Labs. The Russian space program, a guy named Chikovsky. And then the German space program, Werner von Braun. All of these guys thought that they were in touch with non-human entities and they were doing. Tesla is a great example, too. Tesla said that he communicated with extraterrestrials in Colorado. So, yeah, you have to start maybe taking some of these things seriously. And a lot of these guys say that that

• 1:16:44Jesse Michels?

  that is actually essential to our, you know, their ability to actually work in these rocketry programs. And so this guy named Tim Taylor, who is a modern NASA mission controller, works with Elon Musk. I've met this guy and I actually am invested in a rocket company and I was at, you know, it was, it was struggling. And I was like, man, how do we get this thing to work? Cause he's this famous NASA mission controller. I was like, give me advice or whatever. And I was grasping at straws and he goes, you have to think about what they want as far as how to get the rocket to work. And I was like, they? You mean like non-human intel? Yeah.

• 1:17:21Speaker 01

  That's wild.

• 1:17:22Jesse Michels?

  Wild. And I'm, I'm listening to this guy. I'm like, is he psyopping? I don't know. But he's a, he's a real NASA mission controller.

• 1:17:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:29Jesse Michels?

  Works at the highest level.

• 1:17:30Speaker 01

  Well, do you look at all the names of the programs?

• 1:17:32Jesse Michels?

  Right.

• 1:17:32Speaker 01

  Like, that should tell you something, too, right?

• 1:17:34Jesse Michels?

  Artemis, then, yeah.

• 1:17:36Speaker 01

  And you start looking into that.

• 1:17:37Jesse Michels?

  The iconography, the second century Latin writing.

• 1:17:40Speaker 01

  Exactly, man. Like, it starts to, I mean, just, just keep your eyes open.

• 1:17:45Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. It feels like 2025 is sort of a consciousness apotheosis of sorts. You have all of these converging. Accelerating dynamics and you have artificial intelligence, you have OpenAI, Anthropic, you know, all sorts of spin outs and offshoots of these organizations that are buying up tons and tons of Nvidia chips and in this massive race and then the US vis a vis China, mainly China, but also Russia and you know, other adversaries, you have this global AI race, you have, you know, the Google quantum sycamore processor that they just announced that they say might theoretically prove the many worlds hypothesis.

• 1:18:30Speaker 01

  It's crazy.

• 1:18:30Jesse Michels?

  It's crazy. You have those two things and then you also have the David Grush revelations that we're talking about today and that your testimony, you know, really provides more evidence for, which is that we're not alone and that reality is way weirder than we think. And all three of these things seem to be converging and I interviewed a guy named Matthew Pines, he's pretty connected in the kind of national security world and he said that, you know, somebody in a very cleared to a lot of things, I think at the Pentagon, said something like, AI, quantum, plus the Grush stuff.

• 1:19:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:01Jesse Michels?

  And that, that iron triangle of dynamics will unleash a whole host of crazy possibilities.

• 1:19:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:09Jesse Michels?

  And as, you know, people in the national security state, you know, this guy or whatever, he's like, that's what we're tracking. So.

• 1:19:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:17Jesse Michels?

  How, how do we make sense of this?

• 1:19:19Speaker 01

  Dude, I mean, I 100% think a lot of these things are connected in some way that we might not quite understand yet. I don't know. I mean, we could theorize about it all day, but I know there are people that are trying to stay ahead of the game on that and an example that is my, my good friend, Chris Wright, he's a, he's CEO of a company called AITC, the Artificial Intelligence Trust Council, and I'm part of that as well. And the mission for us is to try to. Slow down the growth of AI, at least to a point where the people have a say in how how far this goes. Because right now, it's it's it's a runaway train and no one really knows

• 1:19:59Speaker 01

  what's happening behind the curtain. And there's really no oversight on a potentially the most deadly could be weapon system ever developed.

• 1:20:09Jesse Michels?

  Yep.

• 1:20:09Speaker 01

  And what why I say that is, any significant amount of technology that's that's capable of doing great things is sometimes also capable of great destruction. I'm telling you about drones that you could drop the sizes smaller than the palm of your hand, you could drop hundreds of thousands of them out of the back of a C one thirty and could be trained to individually seek out and kill individual targets.

• 1:20:34Jesse Michels?

  Oh.

• 1:20:34Speaker 01

  Without a human component, to take away the human component from the decision to take a life, that's I think that's where we're crossing the line we don't we shouldn't cross.

• 1:20:44Jesse Michels?

  It's extremely dystopian from a warfare perspective.

• 1:20:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:47Jesse Michels?

  As early as and probably earlier than this, but like Donald Rumsfeld, I remember, you know, in the Bush forty three admin secretary of defense, his whole thing was we need to roboticize or autonomize American military. And it was probably like too early in the technology curve at the time and sort of got, you know, semi rejected. Now it feels like that all this stuff is just happening. And and once you start to get these envoys that are like doing things on your behalf.

• 1:21:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:15Jesse Michels?

  You get weird decisions made and the stories around, you know, fingers, you know, aborts of like nuclear, you know, possibility like that's always because a human is in the loop.

• 1:21:26Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:21:26Jesse Michels?

  Right?

• 1:21:27Speaker 01

  The Russia, the Russia thing.

• 1:21:28Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, the Russia thing is a great example. It was in the eighties or something, you know, and where where that guy could have this close. That guy could have caused nuclear, you know, global cataclysm. And because of his own moral conscience and no superior, he, you know, didn't basically activate the the news.

• 1:21:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. What would an AI system have done? It would have made the decision immediately to just neutralize the threat.

• 1:21:55Jesse Michels?

  It would have been a cold, hard calculation, net zero intuition.

• 1:21:59Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:21:59Jesse Michels?

  And I think there's something about, you know, the whole AI conversation, which is.

• 1:22:05Jesse Michels?

  That the the brain is a Turing machine and it's this, you know, calculator on steroids. And so if the brain is just this calculator, we're going to recreate consciousness via AI. And I think it's this total misnomer and misunderstanding of the brain. I in fact, think we learn with low data sets. Babies come out of the womb with some understanding of grammar, a fear of snakes, you know, all sorts of things.

• 1:22:29Speaker 01

  This is encoded in something deeper, right?

• 1:22:31Jesse Michels?

  Way deeper and we're not learning through these large data sets. There's something very different about a remote viewing, right? How do you explain that?

• 1:22:38Speaker 01

  You ever hear about the hundredth monkey?

• 1:22:40Jesse Michels?

  No, it's a hundredth. I want to hear that.

• 1:22:42Speaker 01

  You didn't know about.

• 1:22:42Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, there's a lot I don't know about.

• 1:22:45Speaker 01

  No, so I'm a pair of raising man, so probably getting hammered on this, but island of monkeys, certain type of monkey. I think it's in Japan that they have a species of monkeys that's separated by an island, the same species, but they're separated and they never interact with each other. Okay. They were dropping, they were doing experiments, they were dropping these potatoes on the island and they were getting covered in dirt and sand when they dropped them on the beach. And one of the monkeys figured out, oh, if I just take it to the water and wash it off, then I can eat it without the sand, right? A simple thing. Well, it taught other, the other monkeys how to do it. And quickly, the whole island knew how to do that. As soon as that, they called the hundredth monkey, as soon as a certain number of monkeys were realized this is what they do.

• 1:23:29Speaker 01

  Suddenly and instantaneously, the other island started doing it. And so they didn't, they don't know exactly what that mechanism is, but they think there's some kind of component of consciousness that's tied to that, that's allowing that to jump.

• 1:23:41Jesse Michels?

  I think so.

• 1:23:42Speaker 01

  And so, and there's other studies to that too. Like you saw the Stanford did the one with the light and the plants.

• 1:23:46Jesse Michels?

  Yes.

• 1:23:46Speaker 01

  And, and so there's a lot of that that's starting to like come out in science that's showing us that consciousness might be. There's a component to this, that's, that's, you know, we don't understand at all.

• 1:23:57Jesse Michels?

  Well, we might have.

• 1:23:58Speaker 01

  It's deeper.

• 1:23:59Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. Speaking of like uploading consciousness to the cloud and how weird that sounds from an AI perspective. That might be going on with our conscious, like we might have a client server side interaction with our consciousness, but that's way more magical and robust. And so. A good example is the Bannister effect where upload times are slower than download times. So breaking the four minute mile as the first person is going to be much harder than downloading that, you know, going forward.

• 1:24:29Speaker 01

  That already exists, yeah.

• 1:24:30Jesse Michels?

  And there's a guy named Rupert Sheldrake who studies all this stuff and he says that once you grow, if you grow a first crystal structure of its kind, it takes a long amount of time because he thinks that that's proof that it's, it's drawing from the local information field that hasn't been done before. So it takes a while for that new crystal structure. You grow that same crystal structure after that, it becomes much faster. Yes.

• 1:24:53Speaker 05

  If you make a new chemical compound for the first time and you crystallize it, that crystal form won't have existed before because it's a new compound. And the more often you crystallize it, the easier it should get for crystals of that kind to form. And in fact-

• 1:25:09Speaker 01

  That's amazing.

• 1:25:10Speaker 05

  Well, it is actually really well known to chemists that new compounds are very difficult to crystallize. You maybe wait years before you get the first crystal. But thereafter, it gets easier to crystallize all around the world.

• 1:25:22Jesse Michels?

  That's insane. That's crazy. I think about sometimes athletic accomplishments too, where somebody pushes the bar just a little bit farther and then all of a sudden it just seems easier or something ostensibly. And like you could attribute that to like modern doping or something, but I think it's something more than that. It's almost as if an accomplishment that formerly was thought to be impossible is uploaded to a central monad or repository or something. And then if somebody calls upon it with the right resonance in the future, you know, they, it's, it's that much easier because you have more, more data in the repository or some, something like that. He also shows that if a thousand people, there are 10,000 people do a crossword

• 1:26:06Jesse Michels?

  puzzle and a new person does that crossword puzzle the next day, they'll finish it a little bit faster than a, a random crossword puzzle that nobody has done prior.

• 1:26:18Speaker 01

  So this, that's a ties into the same thing with the 100th monkey, man.

• 1:26:20Jesse Michels?

  Same thing, 100th monkey. And, and just innovation hopping up at different places around the world at the same- On the invention of the wheel or the invention.

• 1:26:29Speaker 01

  Diane talks about that too, right? Where what rocketry kind of happening like.

• 1:26:34Jesse Michels?

  Why is it happening in Russia and the US and then later Germany all at the same time? Yeah. There's some sort of maybe predetermined arc of techno. And then you look at how science occurs and it's way more revelatory. If you actually look at the descriptions from the scientists. They're not like, I calculated X, Y, Z, and then the answer came to me. That came to the architecture of the hydrogen atom came to Wolfgang Pally in a dream. The rock equation came to him while he's staring at the fire. This idea that the mind is fully separate from an objective material world. I think that'll probably go away pretty soon.

• 1:27:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's a concept out there where I forget who said it, but they talk about us being like a receiver.

• 1:27:19Jesse Michels?

  Yes.

• 1:27:20Speaker 01

  And that the consciousness field is like is the signal and we're just tapping into that field, right? I think that's a cool analogy that that actually makes a lot of sense when you start to answer some of these questions of how this is happening, right?

• 1:27:32Jesse Michels?

  Totally.

• 1:27:33Speaker 01

  I like that analogy that that's kind of kind of sits well with me.

• 1:27:36Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, I love that. Yeah, transmission theory of consciousness. Yeah.

• 1:27:39Speaker 01

  We're just tapping in, man.

• 1:27:40Jesse Michels?

  Totally. Yeah. And maybe our job is to like work on us as receivers. Like work on the, you know, the, the energy field.

• 1:27:47Speaker 01

  What do you think about it like that too? Like we're, we're almost like a, a technology ourself and we're, if you eat healthy and you work out, you, you're the signal's better.

• 1:27:56Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:56Speaker 01

  Right? Yeah. Better information, better downloads, you know?

• 1:27:59Jesse Michels?

  Well, what's happening when you daydream? Are you constructing those thoughts actively? No, it seems like you're receiving things from elsewhere. Like if you're in a dream like state.

• 1:28:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:09Jesse Michels?

  You are not consciously creating the semantic thoughts, but they're pouring in. And there's this question in neuroscience of like, it's like the binding problem. Like they know how all the disparate parts of your brain work. You know, Broca's areas, speech, you know, Wernicke's areas, reading comprehension. But we don't know how it blends together into the seamless perception.

• 1:28:27Speaker 01

  And then they can remove a part that's supposed to do this thing and then it will find a way around and to rewrite and do it anyway.

• 1:28:33Jesse Michels?

  Exactly. It's somehow malleable and understands how to.

• 1:28:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:36Jesse Michels?

  And it's like, it's like a radio. Like if you were to remove the capacitor or the battery of the radio, maybe the music would stop playing or not play in the right way. But. You really need to know that it's tapping into an electromagnetic field via this antenna. The field's still there and that's how, that's the thing tapping into, you know, of all these four seasons or whatever's playing, you know? Like that's, it's that, it's the field. It's not, you know, locally being produced inside of you.

• 1:29:03Speaker 01

  What do you think, like just your opinion on that? Is that like the plank field is that, is that where that sits? Is that it? Is that physically?

• 1:29:11Jesse Michels?

  This is, gets into stuff that's way smarter than me and deeper than me, but I think there's a sub quantum field that deals with quantum potentials. So vector and scalar potentials that deal with actually what we were talking about before as far as anomalies in electromagnetism where this guy named Lorenz, who had this equation where he set the derivatives of the vector and scalar potentials to zero. But in fact, I think Heavy Side, Oliver Heavy Side, who kind of, you know, was one of the fathers of electromagnetism knew this. And basically I think there's another field involving scalar and vector potentials and that explains these anomalies in electromagnetism like the Ernoff Bohm effect where you don't have electric fields or magnetic fields present, but you do have these potentials present.

• 1:29:55Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:29:55Jesse Michels?

  And so maybe a lot arises around these potentials and maybe the potentials themselves are sort of the quantum code, if you will, of the universe, which is kind of information theoretic à la John Wheeler. And again, I'm speaking about things that are well beyond my pay grade, but.

• 1:30:13Speaker 01

  I mean, but it ties into the same thing. And I also like, have you heard of the E8 theory? Where it's like the eight dimensional quasi-crystal is projecting reality onto, oh, I mean, looking at that. Cause that gets a little beyond my understanding of it because I, I mean, I just, this is like hobby level, like looking into it for me.

• 1:30:32Jesse Michels?

  Me too.

• 1:30:33Speaker 01

  I don't have that kind of, I don't have the background, but they talk about this, that our reality is a projection from an eight dimensional plane and that all of, and they can, they can correlate that with all the different particles that tie into, and the way they describe is really cool. Like they show a three, a two dimensional depiction of a three dimensional crystal on a, like as a shadow. And they show you how that can, how it moves and rotates when they rotate the three dimensional piece. And they say, if you can imagine that eight levels up and like that, that's how that's projecting down into 3D.

• 1:31:05Jesse Michels?

  That's fast.

• 1:31:05Speaker 01

  That's pretty cool, man.

• 1:31:06Jesse Michels?

  Well, it's almost like, you know, it's like you have these platonic solids, these, you know, platonic objects that like, like a tesseract.

• 1:31:14Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:31:15Jesse Michels?

  You cannot visualize the tesseract.

• 1:31:16Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:31:17Jesse Michels?

  You can only see the shadow of a tesseract.

• 1:31:19Speaker 01

  Right. And that's a 3D.

• 1:31:20Jesse Michels?

  And that's a 3D.

• 1:31:21Speaker 01

  Object.

• 1:31:21Jesse Michels?

  Rendering of this higher thing. And then you have to ask, is the world itself a 3D rendering of this higher thing going on, which goes back to like Plato's cave?

• 1:31:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:31:31Jesse Michels?

  And are we just rendering it in this like kind of low level substrate that's all we can kind of comprehend?

• 1:31:36Speaker 01

  And then there's that's the quantum, uh, what is it? The double slit experiment that would explain, you know, how we collapse the wave function with consciousness, right?

• 1:31:44Jesse Michels?

  I think an extremely valid hypothesis that's actually consistent with the Copenhagen School's interpretation that measurement collapses the wave function is that there's something actually about our minds that are that collapse the wave function. And every serious quantum field theorist entertained this at the time. And now you have modern quantum theorists saying, no, it's, it's just the particles kind of, you know, once they interact, they, or, you know, once the waves interact, they collapse into particles or whatever. And it's like, what about like what Schrodinger himself thought? Or what, what about what, you know, von Neumann thought?

• 1:32:19Speaker 01

  Well, it's like, uh, you know, Sean Carroll talks about this. He's got like a very strict view on this, where it's like, this is just how the math plays out or whatever. And then you go like the other extreme where it's, where it's like, no, this is saying that consciousness is collapsing the wave function. And so do you, is it actually whether, when they say this, now I don't know exactly the right answer to this. Are they saying that the actual act of measurement or just the act of observing? Which one?

• 1:32:43Jesse Michels?

  So Copenhagen School keeps it very humble in their claims and they just say the act of measurement collapses the wave function. And I'm glad you brought up Sean Carroll because he's the most popular kind of quantum guy now. And what he'll say is, reality itself, quantum reality itself is probabilistic.

• 1:33:03Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:33:03Jesse Michels?

  And but that is totally antagonistic. And that is again, and I'm a fan of Sean Carroll.

• 1:33:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:09Jesse Michels?

  And he's like, explained all sorts of things that like a stupid person like me can understand, you know?

• 1:33:13Speaker 01

  Same.

• 1:33:13Jesse Michels?

  So I'm grateful to him. But he'll say things like, reality is fundamentally probabilistic, like it, like somehow Schrodinger's wave equation, which is probabilistic. Is the substrate of reality. Schrödinger himself would talk about Schrödinger's cat of be existing in superposition.

• 1:33:29Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:33:30Jesse Michels?

  As a joke because he did, and there's even clips of Roger Penrose being like,

• 1:33:34Speaker 01

  He wasn't serious.

• 1:33:35Jesse Michels?

  He wasn't serious. He didn't actually think that the cat could exist in superposition.

• 1:33:38Speaker 01

  He was almost using it as a way of like showing the ridiculousness.

• 1:33:41Jesse Michels?

  Showing how ridiculous and weird, uh, as far as ontological truth, the quantum stuff points to, but saying, we actually probably need to figure this out.

• 1:33:49Speaker 06

  People often say, well, maybe with a sufficient technicality, we could build a Schrödinger's cat. That was not what Schrödinger's point was. He was saying, this is ridiculous.

• 1:33:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:33:59Speaker 06

  You can't really have a cat which is dead and alive at the same time. Yeah, but it was a mere illustration of a wider point, right? That's right.

• 1:34:06Speaker 01

  I love how science and this, this esoteric thinking and, and science is all kind of coming together in this unique ways. Like you could, you could look at it any way from any perspective and you could find some truth, you know?

• 1:34:18Jesse Michels?

  It's awesome, man. Well, okay. So there's a lot of good, a lot of, you know, consciousness raising we're going to get out of this. There might be some bad. This is a Pandora's box. Things are going to get crazy.

• 1:34:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:34:29Jesse Michels?

  How do we prepare for a world, uh, where this sort of, you know, stuff that's been kind of held in the back closet just gets busted wide open?

• 1:34:40Speaker 01

  As far as just being prepared, dude, like if that's, if that worst case scenario is what happens, I think people need to start, awareness is key, right? Starting to be aware of what's going on. Start digging in, start identifying for you what's true. Uh, use your discernment. Uh, look into companies like R A I T C that's trying to, to, to be a buffer for some of this and prevent the proliferation of AI and, and, and all these things, you know? Join movements like ours. Um, go to your local, people in your local area. In Vegas, I have, uh, my company, uh, Bravo One Defense. I teach people how to, how to do basic survival stuff, uh, how to operate weapon safely, pistol, rifle, long range rifle.

• 1:35:22Speaker 01

  Go to your people in your local area that know that kind of stuff and train. Learn how to be proficient with a weapon. So in case you need to use one, you can't. Learn some basic survival skills. How much food would you need to, how much food would you need to store to survive six months with the grid down? What kind of food would you want to store? If you can't cook. I mean, other than open flame, you know, like you, there's things you need to think about that. Maybe a lot of people aren't prepared for and what know what to do. And as soon as they don't have a grocery store to get their things, are they gonna be able to function? I mean, and, and also be prepared to defend yourself because if you're not, then you're just collecting shit for the toughest guy in your neighborhood, you know?

• 1:35:58Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:59Speaker 01

  That's a joke that I think Bill Burr said. It's hilarious. He's like, I feel like I'm just collecting shit from the toughest guy in my neighborhood. And started preparing and getting ready. But yeah, so I mean, train, be ready, be aware.

• 1:36:13Jesse Michels?

  Well, I think there was that moment right when the pandemic hit.

• 1:36:15Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:36:16Jesse Michels?

  COVID-19 where it was like, all of a sudden, we didn't quite know what the thing was. We were like all like about to lock down. And there was this extremely ominous feeling of like, is this actually the end of like the US as we know it?

• 1:36:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:36:33Jesse Michels?

  It ended up not really being that. But I think keeping that little sense of memory in mind is probably a healthy thing.

• 1:36:42Speaker 01

  I mean, that was a real minor flu comparatively to anything serious.

• 1:36:47Jesse Michels?

  Well, we did, we didn't learn any lesson, right? So like the lessons would be, we should produce our own PPE, protective equipment in the US.

• 1:36:56Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:36:56Jesse Michels?

  You were, we were dependent on the country from which COVID came.

• 1:37:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:37:01Jesse Michels?

  For protective equipment.

• 1:37:03Speaker 01

  And they were tapped because they were using it.

• 1:37:04Jesse Michels?

  Totally. So like at the very least, like, you know, we traded self-sufficiency for basically cheaper TVs on the, on the coasts.

• 1:37:12Speaker 01

  Over and over and over again.

• 1:37:13Jesse Michels?

  Over and over again. And so like some sort of lesson around, you know, internal self, self-sufficiency, sovereignty, and, you know, rebuilding the American manufacturing base should have been the bare minimum takeaway. And it feels like we've done none of that. And in April or May of 2020, you have, you know, Chairman of the Fed, Jerome Powell saying, let's, let's print the F-ton of money.

• 1:37:38Jesse Michels?

  And just infused, you know, our system and you have this thing called the Cantillon effect where that's all that just accrues directly to equities to the equity holding class. The rich got way richer. The amount of billionaires, I don't want, I don't know if it's doubled or, you know, something by an order of magnitude expanded. And then, you know, the rest of the country sort of left on, you know, UBI for a temporary period and like, you know, a lot, a lot of businesses got gutted. And so I talk about not learning the lesson, right? I mean, it's, it's almost like we got redirected and then, and then simultaneous to all of that. I think some spiritual energy entered and I think there's, we were sort of moved off our zombie path. And I think we've, we've awoken to real truths in the world.

• 1:38:23Speaker 01

  I like the way you put that, man. That's, that's, I kind of feel like that too. I feel definitely more awake in, in more recent times from all this.

• 1:38:32Jesse Michels?

  Totally.

• 1:38:33Speaker 01

  Oh, more aware. Just, I didn't feel like I was this, this aware of everything before, right? I mean, it feels different.

• 1:38:39Jesse Michels?

  Same. And I think it's, I, do you experience it being, for me, it's been harder, but better and rewarding. And, and so it was almost like, initially, especially, you feel like, you know, you're undergoing like hard changes to make yourself a better person.

• 1:38:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:57Jesse Michels?

  But then on the other end of that, you, you're like, oh my God. Like, it was like, almost like you were a zombie before and you're, you're kind of awake to all these realities and in a really positive way.

• 1:39:07Speaker 01

  100%.

• 1:39:09Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:09Speaker 01

  Exactly how I feel. Absolutely.

• 1:39:11Jesse Michels?

  Well, I hope the world wakes up, man. And I think by you telling your story, you know, I know you're going to play it down, but I do think you are just adding to this renaissance of consciousness and thought and ideas as far as people knowing that there's a lot more out there.

• 1:39:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, man. And our reality is just fine. Like, we don't need to, we don't need to upload to the cloud.

• 1:39:33Jesse Michels?

  That's right.

• 1:39:34Speaker 01

  You know?

• 1:39:34Jesse Michels?

  That's right. Yeah. Well, I think if, uh, If our reality is as strange as, you know, involving gauntlets, you know, emitting hieroglyphics and orbs levitating, we should figure that stuff out before we, you know, drop into the Sims.

• 1:39:49Speaker 01

  And just bear with it a little bit till January, because who knows, you know? Let's see what happens. Hopefully, they don't just information dump a bunch of shit that screws up our reality, but...

• 1:40:01Jesse Michels?

  I'm with you in that, and yeah, I wonder how much, you know, any of that that comes out dovetails with what you have to say, because I think what's interesting about all of this is like, it all corroborates and it all checks. And like, you speak to Grush and it's like, he'll bring up, you know, these names of the people who started the clearance system for UFOs, like Robert Sarbacher and Oppenheimer, and then you do all this open source research and you start to build this narrative of like, the last 75 years of our history from like, a US government perspective is not what it seems. And then simultaneously to that, you have this promise from the new Trump administration to disclose all of these kind of dark truths in the American past. And so, let's see.

• 1:40:47Speaker 01

  Hopefully, he does, but let's see.

• 1:40:48Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, right.

• 1:40:49Speaker 01

  A lot of presidents have promised this.

• 1:40:51Jesse Michels?

  Well, and the traditional thing is that you go up against the power structure, you know, JFK wanted to scatter the CIA to the winds, look at what happened to him. Nixon wanted to reduce the CIA by a third as force reduction. And there are some, you know, interesting narratives as to how he might have been kind of pushed out, you know, four of the five burglars at Watergate were CIA agents. Yeah, kind of wild, yeah. So, I don't know, we'll see it play out. It's gonna get interesting, though.

• 1:41:17Speaker 01

  It certainly is, man. Be prepared, everyone.

• 1:41:21Jesse Michels?

  Well, Randy, this has been a pleasure, man. I'm honored that you, you know, gave me the time here. And I'm excited for people to see this, and hopefully, we learn something maybe from the aftermath of, you know, all the independent researchers out there looking into the hieroglyphic symbols, the levitating orb. There are a lot of, it's almost like this, that your story begets more questions than answers, but I think that's often the case.

• 1:41:48Jesse Michels?

  Awesome, man.

• 1:41:49Speaker 03

  Well, sir, appreciate, appreciate meeting you with you and working with you here. And thank you so much, man.

• 1:41:54Jesse Michels?

  Right back at you. All right. Was Randy shown this technology as a weapons expert to see if he could figure it out, reverse engineer it on the spot, as a litmus test to see how an exposed adversary might react? In many ways, this interview begets more questions than answers, but three things are clear. Number one, Randy's credentials and background are beyond reproach, and we have an abundance of artifacts to prove that. Number two, we should be infinitely grateful for his courage in speaking out about his experience. And number three, this story is unequivocally worthy of follow-ups and further investigation. I want to thank Randy for his courage and selflessness in speaking out.

• 1:42:35Jesse Michels?

  If anyone needs help with self-defense, self-sufficiency, or disaster preparation in the Vegas area, please reach out to him at @Bravo1Defense on Instagram. Until next time, I'm Jesse Michaels, and this is American Alchemy.

• 1:42:50Speaker 07

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