Ross Kemp’s Curiosity Knows No Limits

Ross Kemp steps into Dr Marler’s office, and it quickly becomes clear this isn’t your average conversation. Known for putting himself in some of the most dangerous situations in the world, Ross reflects on what drives him to keep going back, time and time again. From intense environments to moments that would shake most people, he shares some of the experiences that have stayed with him - and how he processes them. As the session goes on, Joe tries to get to the bottom of what fuels that level of curiosity, and whether there’s ever a point where it goes too far. There’s also talk of Celebrity Traitors, with Joe doing everything he can to get a few secrets out of Ross… GET TICKETS TO THE LIVE TOUR HERE: https://www.livenation.co.uk/joe-marler-will-see-you-live-tickets-adp1647830 Featuring Joe Marler (@joemarler17) and Jake Bhardwaj (@jakebhardwajtv) Follow the show on Instagram: @willseeyounowshow Joe Marler Will See You Now is a Platform Media production. Shopify: Every self-made person started somewhere. Your journey starts for free at http://shopify.co.uk/ Refund Club is a trading style of Sandsford Law Limited, authorised and regulated by the Solicitors Regulation Authority (SRA no. 8008114). Checking is free. A fee is payable only if your claim is successful. Eligibility: car finance taken out in the UK between 2007 and 2021. The average claim is around £829 per agreement; this is an average and not a guarantee of the amount you will receive. You can also claim yourself for free by contacting your lender or the Financial Ombudsman Service. refundclub.co.uk/marler Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:24Jake Bhardwaj?

  Tell me the truth, how do you feel about that experience we just shared together in the toilet?

• 1:28Speaker 04

  I feel ashamed, but I also feel closer to you, but I also feel violated.

• 1:36Jake Bhardwaj?

  What, hang on?

• 1:37Speaker 04

  Ashamed, close and violated at the same time.

• 1:39Jake Bhardwaj?

  It's unfair.

• 1:41Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:41Jake Bhardwaj?

  It's unfair that you've chosen those three words and we've not given the viewers or the listeners the context because you've made out that I've done something.

• 1:51Speaker 04

  You, but the thing is, you made out that I did something. I didn't do anything wrong. I'm there minding my own business in the, in the toilet. I was having a wee and you come behind me, put your hands on my shoulder.

• 2:03Jake Bhardwaj?

  C O M E.

• 2:04Speaker 04

  You, you C O M E behind me, put your hands on my shoulders and go, "Oi, oi." Having a bit of sort of like banter, whatever it is.

• 2:12Jake Bhardwaj?

  Oh my lord.

• 2:13Speaker 04

  And then you said, and then I finished weeing and you go...

• 2:15Jake Bhardwaj?

  No, I'm not letting you continue.

• 2:16Speaker 04

  Why?

• 2:17Jake Bhardwaj?

  That is just an utter lie.

• 2:18Speaker 04

  Let me get, let me do my version first.

• 2:20Jake Bhardwaj?

  Oh.

• 2:21Speaker 04

  So I finished weeing and then I sort of do a little adjustment of my waistband and you say, "Ugh." Do you, do you pull your trousers down to wee? I said, "Yeah, I do." Not, not, not exposing ass, but just like a little bit and then I go over the thing. But you said, "Oh no, you meant to go through the fly." And I'm like, "Well, no one told me this." And then Joe, genuinely, Joe was like, "What you do is like a little boy." And he went over to the urinal and put his trousers completely down to his ankles, ass out, cock flapping in the wind. He was completely bare, ass naked. We shared this office with other people. Anyone could have walked in like, "You wee like a little boy at school." And I was just like, "Why don't you do that?"

• 3:03Speaker 04

  I put it just sort of below the waist and then go over it. Whereas you, so producer Tom goes over the waistband. Over the gate. Over the gate. Do you go through the gate? You go through the portcullis? You go through the fly?

• 3:16Jake Bhardwaj?

  What is a fly for? If you don't use it? What's the point in having a fly?

• 3:21Speaker 04

  To do your trousers up, I think.

• 3:23Jake Bhardwaj?

  Yeah. After what?

• 3:25Speaker 04

  No, it's to actually get the trouser on.

• 3:28Jake Bhardwaj?

  No, it's not.

• 3:28Speaker 04

  Just get a little show of, show of, show of hands. Xander, do you go over or through? Over. Yon, over or through? It doesn't fit through. Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The audio listener and the visual listener, Yon's saying it doesn't fit through. This is what we're working with. Okay, Joe, go? It's over. Over.

• 3:48Jake Bhardwaj?

  What?

• 3:49Speaker 04

  Everyone goes over, brother.

• 3:50Jake Bhardwaj?

  Why, I'm in the arse, Georgia?

• 3:51Speaker 04

  Huh? If you were, if you were, if you were that way, you know, um, I don't know what to... If you were that way in doubt, would you go over or through? Go through. Yeah, I knew you would, but that's just because of the novelty of having one for the first time. That's not, that doesn't count. That doesn't count. We need to silence women more often because they just, there's some things that they shouldn't be talking about.

• 4:11Jake Bhardwaj?

  Right. Can I challenge, have I got like...

• 4:13Speaker 04

  Well, you know, that was my version of events.

• 4:15Jake Bhardwaj?

  That was your version.

• 4:16Speaker 04

  The main thing for me was that to prove, to demonstrate what five-year-olds do when they go to the, because it is fucking hilarious when you're, when you are at school. There are like certain kids in the school who, when they go for a wee, they're neither doing the tuck over or the through. It's just pants straight down to the ankles. And that is what Joe did. I saw his whole ass.

• 4:33Jake Bhardwaj?

  Right. Thank you for your versions. The bits I'd like to challenge is mainly the first half.

• 4:41Speaker 04

  Go on.

• 4:41Jake Bhardwaj?

  The majority of the second half.

• 4:45Jake Bhardwaj?

  Yeah, that rings true with me.

• 4:46Speaker 04

  Fine, okay.

• 4:47Jake Bhardwaj?

  The only things I would challenge for the whole story.

• 4:50Speaker 04

  So the bit, the bit that you're questioning is not the bit of you being butt naked?

• 4:54Jake Bhardwaj?

  No, it's questioning more how we got to that point.

• 4:57Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 4:58Jake Bhardwaj?

  I didn't touch you physically with any part of me. I'd just come out of the, the trap three, which I'd destroyed. I'd tidied up after myself, both tidied myself and tidied where I'd been.

• 5:11Speaker 04

  Any adult in 2026, we assume tidies up after themselves after a shit.

• 5:15Jake Bhardwaj?

  Yeah, you assume that. It doesn't fucking happen all the time, does it?

• 5:17Speaker 04

  Right, so you tidied up after yourself.

• 5:19Jake Bhardwaj?

  You know who you are.

• 5:20Speaker 04

  Unbelievable.

• 5:21Jake Bhardwaj?

  Anyway, so I come out of there, didn't touch you, just stood behind you. Remember the moment I stood behind you, noted it was me, I went to wash my hands and then I noticed again that your ass was out.

• 5:33Speaker 04

  Little bit.

• 5:34Jake Bhardwaj?

  Little bit, but enough to see, I'd say this, a finger's length of your crack. And I went, "Oh, you, do you wee like that all the time?" But with your ass hanging out. And then we did have a chuckle. I was like, "Mate, that's how you wee."

• 5:52Speaker 04

  Speed that you drop your trousers.

• 5:53Jake Bhardwaj?

  And then the speed at which I was like...

• 5:55Speaker 04

  I couldn't believe it.

• 5:55Jake Bhardwaj?

  Right, this is, this is how you do it and you're just there. And it's like, just like, oh.

• 6:03Speaker 04

  It was exactly like that. It was exactly like that.

• 6:07Jake Bhardwaj?

  You don't know what to do. And then I asked, you missed out the bit where I said, "Do you actually hold it or are you like an old teammate of mine who doesn't even hold it to direct it and it goes everywhere?" And then you did, yeah.

• 6:23Speaker 04

  I've got two degrees.

• 6:26Speaker 04

  I have two, I have a master's degree and an undergraduate degree in law. Do you know that? This is what I'm, this is what I'm, this is how I'm spending my life.

• 6:36Speaker 04

  So do we tell the guests what's happened in here today or not? Probably leave it. I don't want to make one of the hardest men in Britain, one of the hardest men in Britain.

• 6:48Speaker 04

  A little clue as to who it might be?

• 6:50Jake Bhardwaj?

  Good.

• 6:51Speaker 04

  Good.

• 6:52Jake Bhardwaj?

  Good. I, you know how we like usually do this back and forth? We semi-pretend we don't know who we've got coming in. Or when I say semi, I pretend, even though I've lost the concept that we do know who's coming in.

• 7:05Speaker 04

  Yeah, we know who's coming in.

• 7:06Jake Bhardwaj?

  But we've got to freshen it up, I think.

• 7:07Speaker 04

  Go on.

• 7:08Jake Bhardwaj?

  And I found this.

• 7:13Jake Bhardwaj?

  And I think it'll work. Ready?

• 7:16Speaker 01

  Joe Marler, we'll see you now. Cold opener. Aim to end on a laugh. Jake, before we introduce today's guest...

• 7:22Speaker 04

  Hang on a minute, pause it for a second. Aim to end on a laugh, Jake?

• 7:28Speaker 04

  Is that in, is that in the running order that you've been given? Aim to end on, what, what Sarky producers written? Aim to end on a laugh, Jake? If, if you can.

• 7:37Speaker 01

  Jake, Joe, we've had some hard men in this office. Jason Fox, Eddie Hall, me when Pete Wicks tore me apart.

• 7:44Speaker 04

  Okay, right, so, so normally when we would talk about who's coming up, we're just going to let him do it. This is how you digest it on your way in?

• 7:51Jake Bhardwaj?

  Yeah.

• 7:51Speaker 04

  All right, let's listen, sorry. I'll stop interrupting.

• 7:53Speaker 01

  Well, today we are joined by yet another one. He is an actor, author, reporter and TV presenter. There's very little you two have in common, to be honest. He's got no hair. You've got half a head of hair. He's met some of the scariest people on the planet. The scariest person you've come into contact with is Janet, but there is...

• 8:08Jake Bhardwaj?

  That, that little rhyme sounds so much better from John Rhys-Davis. He was Gimli.

• 8:14Speaker 04

  Oh, wow.

• 8:15Jake Bhardwaj?

  Yeah, but you wouldn't recognise him as Gimli, would you? Because he looked like Gimli in that film.

• 8:19Speaker 04

  Doesn't sound like he's got a long beard and an axe in that, does he?

• 8:26Jake Bhardwaj?

  So there you go, there's the start of the show.

• 8:27Speaker 04

  Well, I think that makes these intros a little bit easier. We can just talk about what we've done in the toilet that morning and then get him to read out who the guest is going to be.

• 8:35Jake Bhardwaj?

  Easy?

• 8:36Speaker 04

  Easy. It's Ross Kemp. Ross Kemp! Oh my god. So Ross is with Janet now.

• 8:42Jake Bhardwaj?

  Yeah.

• 8:44Jake Bhardwaj?

  Don't want to keep him waiting too long because, you know, he's hard.

• 8:47Speaker 04

  Yeah, he's hard as in, fucking hard as nails, not hard as in...

• 8:50Jake Bhardwaj?

  Oh, you've done it. Oh, okay.

• 8:52Speaker 04

  Get him in.

• 8:52Jake Bhardwaj?

  All right, okay.

• 8:57Speaker 01

  Hi Janet, please let Ross Kemp come in through the door. Kind regards, Dr. Joe Marler.

• 9:06Jake Bhardwaj?

  It's incredible.

• 9:12Jake Bhardwaj?

  Ross Kemp, everybody!

• 9:13Speaker 04

  Absolute joy. Here we go.

• 9:16Jake Bhardwaj?

  Sir? Sir?

• 9:20Speaker 05

  It's really nice.

• 9:25Jake Bhardwaj?

  Ross, this is, uh, this is Jake.

• 9:28Speaker 05

  Jake, how are you, mate?

• 9:28Speaker 04

  Absolute joy to meet you, Ross, really is.

• 9:30Speaker 05

  Likewise.

• 9:31Speaker 04

  Thank you very much, wow.

• 9:33Jake Bhardwaj?

  How are you, Ross?

• 9:34Speaker 05

  I am good, yeah.

• 9:36Jake Bhardwaj?

  Hmm, bit of a pause for thought.

• 9:38Speaker 05

  Yeah, I think you have to always consider that question because it can be taken as just a kind of casual reference to, yeah, let's move on.

• 9:46Jake Bhardwaj?

  Hmm.

• 9:46Speaker 05

  But I think I've always, well, in later years, I'll be honest with people, if I'm not having a good day, I'll let them know.

• 9:52Jake Bhardwaj?

  Sure, well, let's move on.

• 9:57Jake Bhardwaj?

  So.

• 9:58Speaker 05

  Nice that you care so much.

• 9:59Jake Bhardwaj?

  Before, uh, we get started.

• 10:02Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 10:02Jake Bhardwaj?

  Um, every client, patient, guest, human that enters the office, uh, partakes in an intake questionnaire. Up it?

• 10:11Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 10:11Jake Bhardwaj?

  Sure. Full name?

• 10:13Speaker 05

  Ross James Kemp.

• 10:16Jake Bhardwaj?

  Good name, strong. Star sign?

• 10:18Speaker 05

  Uh, yeah, uh, 21st July, so I am Cancerian.

• 10:22Speaker 04

  Wow. One day after my birthday, Ross.

• 10:25Speaker 05

  What?

• 10:26Speaker 04

  We are one day apart.

• 10:27Speaker 05

  Synergy.

• 10:27Speaker 04

  Different years potentially, but.

• 10:29Speaker 05

  Oh, definitely.

• 10:30Speaker 04

  But.

• 10:31Speaker 05

  Not potentially, definitely.

• 10:33Jake Bhardwaj?

  What's your occupation?

• 10:36Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's a, it's a, uh, paying the mortgage, dad, uh, um, husband, um, and then they say actor, but I say presenter, documentary maker, actor, sometimes writer, sometimes author, um, and all the other things that you do now as a human being in the modern world, which is worry, uh, deal with other people's issues while dealing with your own and, you know, all that stuff. So ultimately, I go TV person.

• 11:15Jake Bhardwaj?

  I'm glad we got there because I've, it's only a small, it's a small area.

• 11:20Speaker 05

  It's only a little branch.

• 11:20Jake Bhardwaj?

  And I was, I was running out, so.

• 11:22Speaker 05

  TV, TV person.

• 11:23Jake Bhardwaj?

  Okay. Favorite acting role you've ever had?

• 11:29Speaker 05

  In terms of variety of the things that you could get up to, 10 years in EastEnders, obviously Grant Mitchell, but my favorite role was playing a modern version of Ebenezer Scrooge. I really enjoyed the process and I love the story, it's about redemption and I've always loved it since I was a kid. So, yeah, playing Ebenezer Scrooge. Ebenezer, Ebenezer, Eb- Eze good, Eze good.

• 11:57Speaker 04

  You were nearly there, Joe, you got it, it's just Ross has got the lyrics wrong. It's Eze good, Eze good. He's Ebenezer good, whereas you just went Ebenezer, Ebenezer.

• 12:08Speaker 05

  I forgot it.

• 12:09Speaker 04

  No, I know, it's hard, you don't tell me that, that's what happened.

• 12:13Speaker 05

  I forgot it. Um, obviously Grant Mitchell.

• 12:17Jake Bhardwaj?

  Yep.

• 12:18Speaker 05

  Many years.

• 12:19Jake Bhardwaj?

  Hmm. But what's your favorite EastEnders character, except for Grant?

• 12:25Speaker 05

  That's a hard one, well, I have to say Phil, um, because it's a joint enterprise.

• 12:30Jake Bhardwaj?

  Hmm.

• 12:31Speaker 05

  So working with Steve in terms of he's my favorite actor, uh, apart from, obviously, I love Grant, but I love my brother as well.

• 12:39Jake Bhardwaj?

  Wow, you literally, you flipped into Grant.

• 12:42Speaker 05

  I did slightly, didn't I? I love my brother as well.

• 12:44Speaker 04

  It's when that eyebrow comes out, you know Grant's in the room.

• 12:48Jake Bhardwaj?

  That's what happened there.

• 12:49Speaker 04

  When the eyebrow, that's, that is classic Grant.

• 12:52Speaker 05

  What do you mean?

• 12:52Jake Bhardwaj?

  It was the, it was the death stare and then he's straight back out.

• 12:57Jake Bhardwaj?

  Sure. Ever been arrested?

• 12:59Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 13:02Jake Bhardwaj?

  Just sticking with yes?

• 13:03Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 13:05Jake Bhardwaj?

  Absolutely, your, it's your intake questionnaire. Jake, you ever been arrested?

• 13:09Speaker 04

  Uh, no, can't think, I can't say have.

• 13:11Jake Bhardwaj?

  Ever?

• 13:12Speaker 04

  No.

• 13:12Jake Bhardwaj?

  Nothing?

• 13:13Speaker 04

  I once was walking down the street, I was about 16, and, um, uh, the police stopped us and me and my friend were having a a doobie. And.

• 13:24Jake Bhardwaj?

  Why is that the thing for a doobie?

• 13:26Speaker 04

  Because we were sucking each other off at the time and, um.

• 13:30Jake Bhardwaj?

  Fuck's sake.

• 13:33Jake Bhardwaj?

  That gonna get used, tell me it is. Because then I'm a hundred percent be used.

• 13:38Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 13:39Speaker 04

  But, um.

• 13:40Speaker 05

  Sure. Did you, they just what?

• 13:42Speaker 04

  We, we, we threw it in the bush and they said, right, you've thrown that away, where is it? And we go, can't bloody find it. Anyway, where are you going? He said, oh, just, um, just to town, they're like, do you want a lift? I said, yeah, fine. And then they said, give us a lift, that was it, that's, that's the closest I've had to any police story. Yeah. Have you been arrested, Joe?

• 13:59Jake Bhardwaj?

  13, yeah.

• 14:00Speaker 04

  13 times or age 13?

• 14:01Jake Bhardwaj?

  No, I was 13.

• 14:02Speaker 04

  You were 13?

• 14:03Jake Bhardwaj?

  First arrest.

• 14:05Jake Bhardwaj?

  Um, last, actually, first and last. Yeah, I was afray, brawl.

• 14:10Speaker 05

  13?

• 14:11Jake Bhardwaj?

  13, yeah.

• 14:12Speaker 05

  But you always?

• 14:13Jake Bhardwaj?

  Chunky, big man.

• 14:15Speaker 05

  Well, you are a big bloke, don't you, physically?

• 14:19Speaker 04

  You're a chunky monkey.

• 14:24Speaker 05

  You don't get to play the position that you play for England unless you are a strong lad, so were you young and big and strong?

• 14:32Jake Bhardwaj?

  Changed from chunky to strong. No, chunky, chunky, you're still chunky.

• 14:36Speaker 05

  Well played. Really well played.

• 14:37Jake Bhardwaj?

  Still chunky.

• 14:38Speaker 05

  I like how you do it.

• 14:39Jake Bhardwaj?

  Still chunky.

• 14:41Speaker 04

  Yeah, was 13-year-old you, sort of like the same size as the other sort of 17?

• 14:45Speaker 05

  What I'm saying is 13 for a fray is quite young to get arrested, were you bigger than the average lad?

• 14:52Jake Bhardwaj?

  Yeah, I was 13 stone, I used to go up in stones every year and I'd be proud of that, even though I was morbidly obese by the time I was 16, um, shouldn't really be proud of that. Because I've done a lot to work on that recently, um.

• 15:06Speaker 04

  But you're the one in the therapy chair today, Ross, so this is, this is.

• 15:09Speaker 05

  But am I?

• 15:12Jake Bhardwaj?

  Yes.

• 15:13Speaker 05

  Yes, okay.

• 15:14Jake Bhardwaj?

  Yeah, Dr. Joe, thank you. Most dangerous place you've ever been?

• 15:19Speaker 05

  I, I would say Afghanistan for the duration of time, if you're in eight contacts before eight o'clock on a continuous basis and bullets are zipping around and people are getting killed, that's going to be dangerous. The Democratic Republic of Congo. I think it stretches from Kiev all the way to Dublin, so it's a long, wide country and I think it's probably got less roads than Croydon, so you have to go in and out on you in helicopters into the bush. There's no one going to come and get you if it goes horribly wrong.

• 15:49Speaker 04

  I mean, you've been in environments that I don't think any of us could even imagine, but then doing something like this, being under the microscope with Joe, I mean, does it, how does that compare? Does that, does that feel like a scary thing in any way?

• 15:59Speaker 05

  Really good, re- I love how you, yeah, really, well played. I tell you what, it's the first time, you know, this may be pseudo psychiatry, but it is psychiatry. And, and we know that you are clever enough to ask pretty

• 16:14Speaker 05

  deep questions inside the bubble of humour. So, yeah, um, this isn't, this isn't a walk in the park.

• 16:23Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm. There's the Grant eyebrow, for the audio listeners, the Grant eyebrow came up.

• 16:26Jake Bhardwaj?

  Exactly.

• 16:27Speaker 05

  The eyebrow came out again. It's not a trek, it's not a trek in the jungle, though.

• 16:30Jake Bhardwaj?

  All right, okay, we'll see.

• 16:31Speaker 05

  We'll see.

• 16:32Jake Bhardwaj?

  Right, um, what's your favorite way to relax then? You do quite a lot of intense high adrenaline stuff in your life.

• 16:42Speaker 05

  I, I, I've always used alcohol as my main way of, of relaxing, luckily these days because of kids, I don't do it like I used to and, yeah, I think I was heavily reliant on it for a period of time, self-medicating, if you will. So that's something that, that, that has disappeared from my life, but I still like it and of all the alternatives out there,

• 17:05Speaker 05

  that's the easiest accessible and it's the more.

• 17:07Jake Bhardwaj?

  You've chosen your poison.

• 17:07Speaker 05

  And it's the more socially accessible.

• 17:09Speaker 04

  So you've found a way of being able to get a, a handle on it without sort of taking a step to go sober completely?

• 17:16Speaker 05

  I like to think so.

• 17:17Jake Bhardwaj?

  Yeah, wow.

• 17:18Speaker 05

  But, you know, who knows? I don't think anybody should sit here and say, you know, just because I, I limit it myself, I'm not necessarily relying on it.

• 17:31Jake Bhardwaj?

  Right, Ross, you've lived a pretty wild and varied life. One minute I'm watching you as Grant Mitchell, next minute you're talking about the deepest, darkest places you've ever been to and I'm like, fucking hell, this bloke, um, constantly putting himself in situations that I would, and I think, would you agree, we'd probably run a mile from?

• 17:53Speaker 04

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 17:53Jake Bhardwaj?

  We're not engaging in that.

• 17:54Speaker 04

  I mean, I don't know, I don't know how you are able to sort of sit in sort of mun- not, not mundane, but like ordinary family life when you, you've had all these experiences, surely that, that adrenaline, you want to be chasing all the time.

• 18:07Speaker 05

  The Kemp family, there's nothing ordinary about that.

• 18:09Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 18:11Speaker 05

  It's, in a way, far more stressful than going to a war zone, that's probably why I've gone to so many war zones.

• 18:18Jake Bhardwaj?

  I need, I, I need a break, I'm heading out to Iran, all right?

• 18:25Jake Bhardwaj?

  Well, with that in mind, I have a diagnosis for you.

• 18:28Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm.

• 18:29Jake Bhardwaj?

  I believe that you are insatiably curious.

• 18:35Jake Bhardwaj?

  That is my diagnosis, what do you think of that diagnosis?

• 18:37Speaker 05

  I don't think you're a pseudo psychiatrist, I think you're a psychiatrist.

• 18:41Speaker 04

  His eyebrow went again. Yeah.

• 18:43Speaker 05

  Take him to his. And he does that little like, hmm.

• 18:46Speaker 04

  I feel like Tiffany in the 90s.

• 18:49Speaker 05

  You don't, you don't look like her sadly.

• 18:54Speaker 05

  You know, you know what, have you never heard of curiosity killing things? Yes, like the cat. Yeah, it kills cats. I think it comes, I think we're all curious, aren't we? We only get one go at this thing called life. Allegedly. I think legally you have to say allegedly. Allegedly. No, I've seen enough dead people to know you ain't coming back from that. Sure, sure. The speed at which that went from a bit of light to dark. Do you know what? I love it. People, do you know what? This is a true story. So people go, oh, I was really looking forward to sitting next to you at this party. And I went, no, you're not. No, you're not. I bet you move after the prawn cocktail.

• 19:34Speaker 05

  Brilliant. So good. All right. Well, today I'm going to help you realise that you don't need to pick everything apart. And to leave some things as a mystery is a good thing. Okay, that would be our attempt to.

• 19:49Speaker 04

  We're gonna try. We might succeed, but it's worth a try.

• 19:55Speaker 05

  We are just taking a quick break to deliver an important message from our friends at the Refund Club.

• 20:02Speaker 04

  Joe, I've got a theory that you can get a lot done in a minute.

• 20:05Speaker 05

  Oh.

• 20:06Speaker 04

  A lot done.

• 20:06Speaker 05

  Did you?

• 20:07Speaker 04

  Agree or disagree?

• 20:08Speaker 05

  Did you come up with that?

• 20:08Speaker 04

  Agree or disagree?

• 20:10Speaker 05

  Yeah, no, I agree.

• 20:11Speaker 04

  Agree, agree.

• 20:11Speaker 05

  I agree.

• 20:12Speaker 04

  No, I'm glad you agree.

• 20:13Speaker 05

  I don't want to talk about it.

• 20:14Speaker 04

  Okay, well, let me, I want to put it to the test then. I want to put it to the test. How many pints of water do you think you could down in a minute?

• 20:22Speaker 05

  I don't like water.

• 20:23Speaker 04

  What do you prefer?

• 20:24Speaker 05

  I prefer milk because water would hydrate me and I prefer to be chronically dehydrated.

• 20:30Speaker 04

  You tolerate lactose? Big time?

• 20:33Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 20:33Speaker 04

  Big time?

• 20:34Speaker 05

  Yeah, big time, and I'm proud of it.

• 20:36Speaker 04

  Okay, fine.

• 20:37Speaker 05

  But it's also not knocking anyone who can't tolerate it.

• 20:39Speaker 04

  No, I'm not knocking anyone. Altering the question then, how many pints of milk could you get down you in a minute?

• 20:44Speaker 05

  Loads.

• 20:45Speaker 04

  Put a number on it.

• 20:49Speaker 05

  Between one and five.

• 20:50Speaker 04

  Four?

• 20:54Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 20:54Speaker 04

  Four pints of milk in one minute?

• 20:56Speaker 05

  A hundred.

• 20:56Speaker 04

  Bring out the milk, everybody! And just like that, the milk has appeared magically on your desk. My goodness me. You're gonna drink those four pints of milk. Meanwhile, I'm gonna talk about our wonderful friends at the Refund Club. Are you ready?

• 21:10Speaker 05

  No.

• 21:11Speaker 04

  Your 60 seconds starts now. And something else that takes only 60 seconds is a check to see if you could receive hundreds of pounds from the Refund Club. You see, the Financial Conduct Authority found that millions of people were mis-sold car finance between 2007 and 2021. And billions of pounds are expected to be paid back. Could it be you, though? 60 seconds is all it takes to fill out a form, no paperwork, no commitment, and you only pay a fee if the claim is successful. He's on his third pint of milk. You could even do one for a friend in case they were busy with more important things. The average claim, by the way, is £829. So if you took out car finance in the UK between 2007 and 2021, you could be in luck. Joe, how you getting on?

• 21:53Speaker 04

  He's on his, he's on his final pint of milk, everybody. This is incredible. I feel like you're gonna need a wee quite quickly. I'm worried about your bladder. You used to play for England. Look at this man's career. He's just finished the final pint of milk in one minute. Unbelievable. Joe, bring it home.

• 22:15Speaker 05

  Go to refundclub.co.uk/mala. That's refundclub.co.uk/mala to do your free check.

• 22:25Speaker 04

  For the audio listener, that was four pints of actual milk.

• 22:28Speaker 05

  I feel a bit sticky.

• 22:35Speaker 05

  This episode is brought to you by Shopify. If you're looking to start your business and want everything to be in one place, from day one, Shopify is the place to go.

• 22:45Speaker 04

  Their AI tools and templates get you your perfect website up and running in no time, which means all the stress of building a website is just taken away. Okay, you can, anyone can do it. Joe could code. I mean, Joe can't code. That's why we use Shopify.

• 22:59Speaker 05

  Plus, if you come unstuck at any point, Shopify's built-in AI assistant Sidekick is there to help you build, troubleshoot, and keep you moving.

• 23:11Speaker 04

  Joe, if you needed to build a website for your own online shop, what's it gonna be?

• 23:17Speaker 05

  Can I let you in on a little secret?

• 23:19Speaker 04

  I'd love that.

• 23:20Speaker 05

  I had Shopify set up two years ago, set up my own Shopify shop.

• 23:27Speaker 04

  So what did you sell?

• 23:27Speaker 05

  All my old rugby gear, shirts, signed shirts.

• 23:33Speaker 04

  So people, people now can go and find your memorabilia, buy it, and it'll be signed, and then?

• 23:38Speaker 05

  Yeah, all of my own Shopify shop. And it was so easy to do. So I can, I can talk about this situation quite naturally. Because I already do it. It's just there, ready to go, easy as pie. People look at it, there's your price. So easy to set up. And at the start, I was like, how am I gonna do this? Maybe I'll just do a car boot.

• 23:57Speaker 04

  Whereas this, people can be accessing anytime, all the time, and it's easy to set up. And by the way, thanks to Shopify Checkout, more customers actually buy, and returning ones can do it in a single click.

• 24:09Speaker 05

  All you need is the idea. Shopify handles the rest.

• 24:16Speaker 05

  Start your free trial at Shopify.co.uk.

• 24:25Speaker 05

  Let's begin with the small version of Ross. Where did your curiosity come from as a child, growing up? Did you, were you always curious as a kid, or? The curiosity really came, I think, from my dad's job and my mum's job. It says, it says that your dad was a detective superintendent. Yeah, so he was in the Sweeney.

• 24:46Speaker 05

  The real Sweeney. Todd Sweeney was a copper who started up the Sweeney, which was to take people on the pavements, which is armed robbers. So armed robbery, even up to 2000, there were still about four armed robberies on the streets, on the pavements of London every week. No mobile phones, and everything was paid in cash. There was no electronic transfers. That wasn't that long ago. So everybody was, like, posty vans would drive around with envelopes full of packets of, bundles of cash. And so it was worth doing because you couldn't, it was hard to get caught. And it was called blagging, wasn't it? So your dad was part of the real-life Sweeney? He used to carry a gun. He used to put his, these 38 shells above me and my brother's steel bedheads when he'd been down the range.

• 25:31Speaker 05

  Because there was no armed police in those days. Not, there wasn't, you know, like we have now, SO19 or whatever. There was, the actual detectives went to the shootouts. And they used to sit and drink with the villains.

• 25:43Speaker 05

  They used to know each other. Wow. It was a very different time. The curiosity thing really hit home. He had a brown leather suitcase with all his files in it because there's no computers in those days. It's exactly like what you've got in France. Yeah, well, I take my work seriously. You do? Yeah, you don't need computers. And I opened up the case. I was sworn, it had John Jork on it. John Albert William Kemp, Jork. And I was told never to go in it. And it had like a loop that went through the handle when it was a brass thing. And normally it was locked, but it wasn't locked, so I always tried my luck. I opened it up, and inside of it were black and white pictures. And I was kind of trying to work out what it was because I couldn't work out what it was.

• 26:22Speaker 05

  And then I suddenly worked out what it was. And it was of somebody being murdered, left in a garage in East London, and it had been blown by flies. It had all these holes where the flies had come out, where the maggots have worked their way out. And I'm looking at this thing going, I know now why he told me never to go into this thing. So I put it back, I put it back, like even I was younger than that. Must have been, it was before, it was just after he moved to Oxford, so just first year of secondary school, what's that, 11? Put it all back.

• 26:53Speaker 05

  And then, didn't, I hadn't seen him. He was, you know, working late or whatever. If he was on a murder investigation, you didn't see him for days. And he came home and he went, you've been in my case. And I went, yeah, sorry, darling, I've been in your case. And he went, you now know why I don't want you to go in my case. And he said, don't ever go in it again. And I went, I won't. And I didn't. Was he tough on you? Yes, but I'd stand there and take it. Sure. Because that's what.

• 27:21Speaker 04

  That obviously then led on to you becoming.

• 27:24Speaker 05

  Get punched in the face by other people. Surely that was the start of Ross Kemp, the hard man. Surely, right, I'm just gonna stand there and take it. I, I think there is, I think it's in all of us that after a certain point, you do stand there and take it. Because if you don't, you're gonna be trodden on. Do you see, I know, do you see yourself as a hard man? No, mate. I got bullied at school quite a bit. And then all of a sudden, rugby sort of kicked off for me, and also I started boxing as well. And I ended up playing for the county and boxing for the county. And all of a sudden, the bullies suddenly, they redirected there, as bullies do. But I bumped into a couple of them subsequently, and I've not hit one of them, but I've certainly gone into him and said, look, you, you may have forgotten.

• 28:06Speaker 05

  He's like, oh, Ross, nice to meet you. Remember we went to school? And I do remember you, and I know your name because you bullied me for two years. Well, it wasn't, it wasn't me.

• 28:16Speaker 05

  I know, it was.

• 28:17Speaker 04

  The audio listener, it looked like he was about to get Joe.

• 28:20Jake Bhardwaj?

  Not you! It wasn't me. I know I look older than you for fuck's sake, but I wasn't there. It was you going,

• 28:27Speaker 04

  You do have a lot of similarities though.

• 28:29Jake Bhardwaj?

  I fucking remember you, you prick. Let's go outside. In fact, fucking, let's do it now! Wow, I was hot ready.

• 28:35Speaker 04

  You have a lot of similarities though, because I think from the outside, people would think, Ross Kemp, hard man. Joe Marlowe, hard man. They do, they do. They see it as sort of like a big guy. I mean, you've, you've sort of had scraps on the rugby pitch, and people have seen that and thought, he's a hard guy.

• 28:47Jake Bhardwaj?

  A tough guy.

• 28:48Speaker 04

  Yeah, well, what, what is the, what is the tough guy thing? What makes a hard guy a hard guy?

• 28:52Jake Bhardwaj?

  Well, I don't know. What's your view of a hard man?

• 28:55Speaker 05

  I don't think there is.

• 28:55Jake Bhardwaj?

  Because your, your view, I guess your view is, oh, appearance wise, if they're big.

• 29:01Speaker 04

  You're both big, broad lads. You've had a scrap, I think, probably you're hard lads, yeah.

• 29:05Jake Bhardwaj?

  That's not what, I don't think that's what means hard. I think for me, someone who's hard, or, it's a fine, like, there's a difference in it. Someone who's hard from a good place, like, in a, a good hard, or like a nasty hard.

• 29:20Speaker 04

  Why is that a Google? Oh, just, it makes you think about erections, doesn't it, this whole thing? But yeah.

• 29:23Jake Bhardwaj?

  See, I wasn't there.

• 29:24Speaker 04

  Well, you're not, not was there. Sorry, good, hard, bad. Fine, that's fine. Carry on.

• 29:28Jake Bhardwaj?

  I think it's a consequence thing, like, there's a lot of people not, that aren't big, um, they're actually small, wiry, it's more of a, what are they prepared to lose? You, like, what are they prepared to give up? What consequences are they prepared to face? They're the scariest ones.

• 29:46Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 29:47Jake Bhardwaj?

  The ones that go, I'm smashing this bottle here and I'll jab it in your neck, because I don't give a shit if I go down for 20 years. And that, they're the scariest people. It's very rarely the big units that are.

• 29:58Speaker 05

  The ones that tell you I'm gonna do it generally aren't going to. It's the ones that you're on the end of it after it's happened.

• 30:04Speaker 04

  Seen a lot in, a lot of your documentaries, some of the people that actually are quite scary are the smaller guys, who have sort of just been running things for a long time.

• 30:12Speaker 05

  Most of the bosses that I've met, like, it was called Short Man giveaway, in Jamaica. He had a bodyguards with him, who were massively built and all carrying. He didn't carry a gun. But he was very, very intelligent.

• 30:26Jake Bhardwaj?

  Is there anyone that stands out to you that goes, I was actually really scared? That, like, they're the scariest people, person I've come across.

• 30:37Speaker 05

  I've done everything. I've lived with, this past time I lived with Hezbollah. Uh, I've been with Hamas, I've been Russian, I've done a lot of Nazis, Russian Nazis, Romanian Nazis, Bulgarian Nazis, Polish Nazis.

• 30:51Speaker 04

  Which ones are the best?

• 30:52Jake Bhardwaj?

  Well, depends what you mean, in terms of being a Nazi. Sure. Who really nailed, who really nailed the Nazi role? Fucking hell, Jake. Fuck.

• 31:01Speaker 05

  Who's the best Nazi? I think Adolf Hitler possibly. I don't know. He might question that though.

• 31:07Jake Bhardwaj?

  Oh, Jake.

• 31:11Speaker 05

  Oh, that's fantastic for you.

• 31:13Speaker 04

  God, sorry.

• 31:14Speaker 05

  Really, really good. But, but it, I, I, I think one of the things that I, I realised quite, I was really green when I first started doing it, like, not knowing what I was doing. If the translator suddenly goes very pale and stops talking, it's time to make excuses, because their atmospherics are far better than yours, and they know what he's really saying. Because they could be saying, do you fancy going out for a slice of cake and a cup of tea? But he's saying, if you stay there any longer, we're gonna shoot you all. I don't know, because I don't speak that language. But scary people, uh, some of it is just ludicrous. Some of it is just when you look back on it and you go, what was I doing? I remember being in the prison early doors in Poolsmore, where

• 31:59Speaker 05

  rape or having sex with other men is considered to be very, very normal amongst a certain faction, the numbers gang. And if you don't wanna have sex with that person, if that person's powerful enough, he will have sex with you. There's an interview with a guy called John Mongrel, and I sat with him and he was dark. So, I meet him, and, um, I asked him, I said to you, you know, do you have sex with other men? He said, yes, I have sex with other men. My face, his face. And I say, so, so how does that happen? He says, I come into him, I say, hey, my brother, are you a member of the number? And he goes, and if he says no, I say, you come sit by me. And he's my wifey. Wifey is Africans for wife.

• 32:40Speaker 05

  And he washed my, he washed my clothes. He cooked my food. I have sex with him. And I said, you have sex with him? So, does that mean you're gay? And he went, I'm not gay. They're gay. I'm not gay. And I said, what happens if you don't, if they don't, they don't sleep with you? He said, I kill them.

• 33:04Speaker 05

  So it was like, I was like, woo! And then he breathed on me, and I want, this, this will go with me to my grave, I hope this is not the last thing I think about before I die. But he breathed on me, and his breath, well, you could have sliced it, literally, it was that thick. And it was nicotine,

• 33:23Speaker 05

  roadkill, and man juice.

• 33:32Jake Bhardwaj?

  Well, fuck me dead.

• 33:34Speaker 04

  Well, he would, yeah.

• 33:35Jake Bhardwaj?

  If it ends up in Poolsmore, that would happen.

• 33:43Speaker 06

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• 34:13Speaker 07

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• 34:43Jake Bhardwaj?

  Ross, you're well known for playing the hardest man in TV.

• 34:46Speaker 05

  I hate that line. Good going, yeah. For the very reasons that we've just discussed.

• 34:50Jake Bhardwaj?

  You hate that line?

• 34:52Speaker 05

  TV tough guy.

• 34:54Jake Bhardwaj?

  Okay.

• 34:54Speaker 05

  What's, how many cliches have you been given? Loads.

• 34:58Jake Bhardwaj?

  No, they're not, well, they're actually not cliches, they're actually to the point. Helmet.

• 35:03Jake Bhardwaj?

  We had someone come in earlier and they said, oh, you've always been a bit chunky, haven't you?

• 35:09Speaker 05

  Who was that? How dare they?

• 35:11Jake Bhardwaj?

  You know, so, a lot of them are quite accurate. But, so you're well known for playing the alleged hardest man on TV, Grant Mitchell.

• 35:21Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah.

• 35:21Jake Bhardwaj?

  How much of real Ross Kemp, how much of real you went into playing Grant? Like, or was it just completely different?

• 35:29Speaker 05

  I think it's the transition. I think, uh, Steve and myself, or, let's call it Grant and Phil, when we first arrived, he'd just, he'd not been long out of Rada, I'd not been long out of a Douglas, so, we trained three years as classical actors. So we were very much into, where have I just come from? Where's the character going to? And because we, we're really conscientious about that, and also we had each other to keep an eye on, like, unlike being one, a single fish, we were two fish. And what I mean, what I mean by that is, that we could question each other's motivation and action for what we're about to do. And that started to form a real brotherly bond.

• 36:09Jake Bhardwaj?

  Yeah.

• 36:09Speaker 05

  And then, and Steve and I just, we just, we just worked, we worked out, that as, the more you play the role, the more you need, because it's continuous. It's not like you do, if you shoot a movie, you shoot it over a month and you've got to play whatever character. You're living this character day in, day out, and you're spending more time with your pretend family than you are ever going to spend with your real family.

• 36:33Jake Bhardwaj?

  Did it then drip, did it drip out into your real, into Ross's life?

• 36:36Speaker 05

  What happens is, Joe, basically, not only do you start relying on parts of your own persona to play the part, how would I react if I found out, A, my brother would be sleeping with my wife, you know, and you, and if you're, you know, if you're trained and you, and you know your stuff, you'll use emotional recall, not that my brother's ever slept with my partner, but you know what it's like to be heartbroken, and you can re, and you, as a person, knows what that is. If I do it in a leather jacket and raise my eyebrow, maybe I'm Grant Mitchell doing it, you know? But, um, so there was, there was a definite crossover between your persona and the character's persona, and sometimes it's indefinable as to what is which. But I'm certainly not Grant Mitchell.

• 37:20Speaker 05

  But, there were moments when I was working with Steve again, like, without looking, like, we're doing the lines looking this way, and at the moment someone will say, and you're a bunch of, and we just go,

• 37:34Speaker 05

  what are you gonna fucking do? Literally, but without the, without the what the fucking gonna do. And like, we're just doing it naturally, we're off, you know, just without, and, and, and you've got to know someone inside out, and you, and you, and that's the thing, you're working with each other so much. And when Barbara came along, and she just naturally fitted in, it was just like a piece of Lego, kind of like, that, you know, the family are complete, and, um, yeah, they were, they were long days, hard days, enjoyable days.

• 38:01Jake Bhardwaj?

  Did you love it?

• 38:02Speaker 05

  Like, anything, like, anything like that. I do think, I refer to it as the factory, it's a, it makes soap, or it makes sausages, whatever you wanna. You go in there, you go to the canteen, and then you go to graft, and you do graft. If you, if you, if you're in the inner circle of main characters, and it wasn't just the Mitchells, there were other families, of course, you do work hard. Uh, and it's not cold face, but it's a, it's a different kind of draw on you. If you've got to sit there and cry all day, I'm, I'll be very honest, my mum was not very well recently, and in the middle of film, the second day of filming, back on the square, my brother rang me to say she's on her way to hospital and she's had a stroke, so, I was one minute filming in a fake hospital, this is relates to the crossover,

• 38:43Speaker 05

  and then that night, well, no, as soon as I got the scene done, I was in a car and I was driving to a real hospital. And, um, and also what bizarrely would happen as well, and I won't get into too much detail, but if you're having problems in your personal life, you'd open up the envelope, vanilla envelope, and you'd open up the scripts in the night, you'd be reading, that's just happened to me in my personal life. They would never have known, because they'd have written the script six months, see, like, four months before. So there was often bizarre overlaps between what was happening in your real life and what was happening in your on-screen life.

• 39:16Jake Bhardwaj?

  Crazy.

• 39:16Speaker 04

  Oh my god.

• 39:22Jake Bhardwaj?

  Just taking a break to thank our sponsor, Ancient and Brave.

• 39:26Speaker 04

  Joe, they don't just sponsor the pod, you're actually an ambassador too, aren't you? A position I know you don't take lightly.

• 39:31Jake Bhardwaj?

  For anyone who hasn't come across them before, Ancient and Brave are a female-founded, mission-driven wellness brand. Award-winning collagen, blends and supplements, all designed to support the whole body health. They're rooted in ancient wisdom, but guided by modern science. And their products go through rigorous scientific testing with only the highest-quality, bioavailable ingredients. No additives, no fillers, no junk. I've spent a lot of time with the team and I know this isn't just marketing jargon. It is real integrity and they're all about supporting people, never scaremongering.

• 40:13Speaker 04

  So can you tell me, what are the perks? Do you get a uniform? Do you have to insist on people calling you the ambassador, Mr Ambassador?

• 40:20Jake Bhardwaj?

  Yeah.

• 40:20Speaker 04

  Pleased to see you.

• 40:21Jake Bhardwaj?

  You've nailed it.

• 40:21Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 40:22Jake Bhardwaj?

  So whilst we're, whilst we're in the presence of Ancient and Brave, actually, that applies to anyone in the room.

• 40:27Speaker 04

  So, Mr Ambassador?

• 40:28Jake Bhardwaj?

  Thank, yes.

• 40:29Speaker 04

  Can you talk me through some of the products? What are your go-tos?

• 40:32Jake Bhardwaj?

  Personally, I would go for the True Hydration Electrolytes. It's a coconut water-based formula with no, that is no, nanya, zero, artificial flavours and sweeteners, so it tastes great.

• 40:47Speaker 04

  Obviously hunks come in all sizes, what would you recommend for someone like me?

• 40:50Jake Bhardwaj?

  You need to get your hands on this Brave Ancestral Protein, brother. You want to know what the USP of this bad boy is?

• 40:55Speaker 04

  Yes, please.

• 40:56Jake Bhardwaj?

  It is made with grass-fed beef protein isolate and no whey. And it's a delicious cacao flavour too.

• 41:04Speaker 04

  I think what I like is Ancient and Brave's commitment to sustainability. Very important. They're a B Corp and proud members of 1% for the planet, meaning that 1% of all their sales goes directly to environmental causes that protect our planet.

• 41:18Jake Bhardwaj?

  To find out more about Ancient and Brave, visit ancientandbrave.earth/planet and use the code JOE, J-O-E, for 20% off your purchase.

• 41:34Jake Bhardwaj?

  What was it, uh, what was it like, mate? What was it like when Claudia walked around the table and, you know, pinched her shoulder?

• 41:46Speaker 05

  The eyebrow.

• 41:47Speaker 04

  Good try, it's good, you nearly got him.

• 41:49Jake Bhardwaj?

  What was the turret like, buddy?

• 41:51Speaker 05

  I tell you what, as you know, the disclaimer is longer than the Bayo Tapper's tree. Paul's more and Belmarsh have less policing around it than that, than that game. Yeah? That piece of entertainment?

• 42:06Jake Bhardwaj?

  Sure.

• 42:07Speaker 05

  So, as you know...

• 42:12Speaker 05

  Now, we are, um, we are fully aware that lips are very much sealed, but do you...

• 42:21Jake Bhardwaj?

  How did you find the experience?

• 42:26Speaker 04

  You can't say anything.

• 42:29Speaker 04

  What were the other, what were the other contestants like? Can you tell us about what podcast you're gonna launch as a spin-off off the back of it?

• 42:38Speaker 04

  Ross Kemp will deck you now.

• 42:46Jake Bhardwaj?

  Right, enough from me, it's time for Jake, your biggest fan, to take over with a small exercise he's devised.

• 42:53Speaker 04

  Just a quickfire exercise to get to know you even better than we already have. We've established you're one of the hardest men around. To help us learn about some of the times where maybe curiosity, uh, maybe got the better of you, we want to play a quick game, Around the World in 80 Traumas.

• 43:07Jake Bhardwaj?

  Fuck, now, I thought we were keeping it light. 80 traumas?

• 43:11Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's what it says.

• 43:12Jake Bhardwaj?

  Around the world in 80 traumas.

• 43:13Speaker 04

  Yeah, okay.

• 43:14Jake Bhardwaj?

  Keep it light.

• 43:14Speaker 05

  Brilliant.

• 43:16Speaker 04

  We might as well just do three.

• 43:20Speaker 04

  We've got a list of places and I just want you to tell me the maddest thing you've seen there. You up for it?

• 43:25Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 43:26Speaker 04

  Libya.

• 43:27Speaker 05

  I mean, desperate people being dragged off boats and put in concentration camps aside, I got me and my sound man and all of us, we're in a supposed safe house that they were gonna detain us in, um, under lock and key for a period of time and I thought they might shoot us at one point. We all thought they were gonna shoot us. We were held for about 48 hours without being released. We had to go, we could go to the toilet but under armed guard. And Marta, this is true story, Marta who was the director, Marta says, "Come into the female room." And I said, "I cannot go into the female room, there's cameras in there, hidden." I said, "There are no cameras in this room, fine." She said, "Open the drawers." So I opened the drawers and it's pink knickers, big pink knickers,

• 44:12Speaker 05

  like, big. And I go, "Nice." They're even too big for me, I can't get into them, Marta. She said, "Ha, ha, ha, look underneath the, under the knickers." So I pushed you, I said, "If he comes through the door now, he's just gonna shoot me." Right? Come here. And there were eight mils grenades, like the old-fashioned pineapple pin throw, right? Okay? She said, I said, "All right, he's got, he's got hand grenades, fine. He runs a militia, he would have hand grenades." She said, "Look in the next drawer." And I, I pulled up in the next drawer, it's bras, white bras, big bras. She said, "Under the bras are four RPG warheads." So we knew we were dealing with pretty heavy people. So that was Libya. That was the answer to Libya, really. That was hard.

• 44:55Speaker 04

  Wow. Do we need to play the rest of the game?

• 45:00Speaker 04

  That's incredible.

• 45:02Jake Bhardwaj?

  I, I think it's up there...

• 45:05Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 45:06Jake Bhardwaj?

  With one of the most incredible stories I've heard.

• 45:09Speaker 04

  Bogota.

• 45:09Jake Bhardwaj?

  Yeah. Where's Bogota?

• 45:11Speaker 05

  At Colombia. One of the ones that really sticks out to me, and I'll tell you this is a really long dip, but I'll tell you, so they have sex hotels. So it's 43 degrees, it's on the Pacific coast, it's where nearly all the cocaine that goes up to west coast of America comes out. The CIA have taken over control of the port, so now they're using little fishing boats to go out to the bigger boats. So all these little villages have become hubs for the cartels. And they use takedown merchants, so they come find out where your coke is and they take it off you. One of the ways they find out where you've got that coke is by chopping you up slowly. Right? So you have chop houses. Not chop houses where they chop up drugs, which I've been to lots of, chop houses where they chop.

• 45:52Speaker 04

  Fingers.

• 45:52Speaker 05

  Start off with fingers. First of all, the first thing they do is, and I met the guy, so sound, the sound, air con is so hot in this sex hotel, it's got a sex room, it's got all of these kind of odd shaped sofas and there's a little fridge in the corner with a comb, not gonna work, Durex, uh, or, um, lube, lots of lube, little mixers, occasional little drinky beforehand or afterwards, um, and just more lube, right? It's a little fridge, then it's this smooth floor, tile floor, these plastic things, and we put a D, um, D5 camera on him on a tripod, he's got, we're shooting him in shadow because he can't be seen. Um, he's African Colombian, so he's got dark skin, but he's covered in rosaries

• 46:37Speaker 05

  and crosses and all this stuff. So he has to take that all off because he can ID him. We start doing the interview and Dave says, "The air con's too loud, so I have to turn it off." So it went from being a really nice 18 to being a really, really sticky 38, 40 very quickly. So as I'm doing the interview with him and he's telling me, "How, how do you do it?" Well, first of all, I take your eye out with a fish hook, right? Then they know that we're serious because we're blind to him, okay? And then what happened? And then we take the fingers off. I said, "I fucking, I'll give up. If I had it, I'd give it up." But sometimes they get the wrong people.

• 47:10Speaker 04

  Oh my god.

• 47:11Speaker 05

  Right? And they end up chopping them up into, so their bodies are boxed basically and throwing them in the sea. They look like white boxes of coke actually, or packs of coke, because the sea...

• 47:23Speaker 04

  It's on brand, I guess.

• 47:24Speaker 05

  Dies, it dies, it white, the skin, the flesh is dyed white in the sea because of the salt. But it is, I'm dripping, right? We're all dripping and all of a sudden, all the lube is melting, right? I'm sweating, this guy hasn't not got a drop of perspiration on him, right? He may be used to it, whatever. But I'm like freaked out by this interview and we're carrying on doing it and he's just telling me about how the worst thing that ever happened to him was having to cut up his best friend, that his brother was mistaken for him and got cut up and his dad was cut up. I'm going, "So you better time before you get cut up, mate." Anyway, we finish the interview, I'm wringing wet. The floor

• 48:05Speaker 05

  is like an ice skating rink, uh, because of the lube, uh, the ridiculous of it, you know what I mean? It's not lost. And I say to him, as he gets into his car to go, be driven away, I said, "I couldn't help noticing you're covered in crucifixes and, you know, Saint Christopher's and, you know, religious iconography." And he said, I said, "Do you believe in God?" And he went, "I believe in God, but somehow I don't think I'm going to heaven." And I went, "For sure you're not, but I wish I got that on camera."

• 48:41Speaker 04

  Beautiful. Well, that, that is the end of my whistle stop tour of the world, seeing what mad things have happened.

• 48:45Jake Bhardwaj?

  Sure, quite, quite the whistle stop tour, that, really.

• 48:47Speaker 04

  I mean, if we could do a part two, I would happily go all around the world and just listen to stories all day.

• 48:55Jake Bhardwaj?

  It's bonkers story after bonkers story and situation that you've put yourself in. All of this stuff that you've done...

• 49:04Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 49:04Jake Bhardwaj?

  And have experienced, that it's, it's incredible and it's like you alluded to, it's easy for us to sit here and listen to your stories and it's great and not actually be part of it. You've experienced it all, but how do you not let it affect you?

• 49:18Speaker 05

  I think you have to have a disposable emotional memory bank. And if you can't do that, then you shouldn't be in the game. We use TRIM, Trauma Risk Management. And basically, it's if something traumatic happens during the day and it doesn't matter whether it's a road traffic collision, or whether it's listening to someone talking about chopping people up, or it's actually having a gun shoved in your face or a bullet going past your head, we would sit and gather the team, we would all talk through our day, like you would have done if you were a hunter gatherer around the fire. And I encourage it with the kids as well. Basically, it helps to prevent PTSD, us, our closing envelopes in the back of our brains, if you expose it early. So if you talk about where you may

• 50:01Speaker 05

  have put the team in jeopardy for some reason, or, you know what, you didn't button on in an interview, so we did a really good interview, yeah, but I forgot to press the record button. So we have lost that moment. Did we button on? There's all the red lights everywhere, I can think we did.

• 50:16Jake Bhardwaj?

  Well, I just need to check all 11 cameras.

• 50:20Speaker 05

  Love it.

• 50:20Jake Bhardwaj?

  You can do with some more.

• 50:21Speaker 05

  Yeah. So by talking about it at that point, it exposes that, yeah, put my hand up, I did this, or I was a bit worried about that. And it doesn't fester, because the last thing you want is that the next day you're going into a hostile environment and people are holding doubts about somebody's performance, or they're blaming them for something that they might or might not have done. So it's about... Talking basically, getting it out there quickly and not holding grudges and it really does work.

• 50:53Jake Bhardwaj?

  That must be, that must be so important, like you just said, to actually do for your team. In order to progress, not just to the next day, but when you come home.

• 51:03Speaker 05

  Absolutely.

• 51:03Jake Bhardwaj?

  You've already processed it, you've sort of compartmentalized it and you've gone, right, that's there. It's always there, but it's not gonna affect you as much.

• 51:10Speaker 05

  But you clear it better.

• 51:11Jake Bhardwaj?

  Do you, Jake, do you think, do you think maybe we should probably bring that into?

• 51:17Speaker 04

  This workplace environment?

• 51:18Jake Bhardwaj?

  Yeah, I'm just worried.

• 51:19Speaker 04

  Well, no one talks to Janet, we've got no idea what she's up to. We've no idea what she's doing.

• 51:24Jake Bhardwaj?

  Maybe Janet leads on that.

• 51:25Speaker 04

  Yeah, potentially.

• 51:26Jake Bhardwaj?

  We'll get Janet to lead on that.

• 51:30Jake Bhardwaj?

  In all this, you come across so many different people. What's it done, like, what do you think of people? Is it a trust, like, are you amazed by all these people? Are you trusting in the human race? Or you've got an overall negative thing of it, like you go, fuck the world, it's dark out there.

• 51:51Speaker 05

  It is dark out there, but I specialize in looking at, I would say, the minority. Which are the ones that are dark. And the overwhelming majority of whichever country you go to, often countries with far less than we have. Generally having a happier time. I am fascinated by human beings, you know. My big hero is Sir David Attenborough and I remember watching that interview. Interaction with gorillas, which are still my favourite animal on the planet. I'm obsessed with gorillas, I love them. And that moment, I don't know if you've ever seen it, it was when he was very, very young. And then the gorilla comes up and like strokes his face and like could pull his arms off.

• 52:36Speaker 05

  And he interacts with them. I realised at that point that that was sort of something that, that honesty was not staged. It could never have been staged. It was so real and it was so engaging that that's sort of what I wanted to do. Engage in a very honest, open way without staging anything with, with human beings. And that's hope for touch with what I've done.

• 53:01Jake Bhardwaj?

  Do you, do you think your curiosity is actually a strength?

• 53:06Speaker 05

  I think it can be both. I think it can be a strength and a weakness and I think that's something that you have to be mindful of. And I think getting, getting older, there are a lot of things now that every rock had to be lifted and looked under. Now it was selective. And also I think the more you know, the bigger your fears become. You feel that you're, as you know, probably a professional, top professional sportsman. The risks that you're prepared to take on a field probably and the, the power that you exert is greater when you were younger. And you're not gonna be intimidated by anybody, but we all eventually come up against something or someone that is, can defeat you.

• 53:50Speaker 05

  And it doesn't necessarily come in the guise of the player playing opposite you. It could be an injury from nowhere or whatever it may be. So I think you, I think if you're gonna survive, you have to analyse the fear and you use that judgment. You know, you, you use, this could hurt a lot more than it gives me any kind of gain. So why take that trip?

• 54:14Jake Bhardwaj?

  You, you've mentioned your kids a couple of times and I've got four kids as well. Is it, are you conscious of the curiosity that you've shown throughout your years? That you want, like as, as a, like a role model to, go on, go out and be curious and. Or are you like, actually, I don't want you to go out and see the world that I've seen. I'd much prefer you to just have your head in this iPad or TV. I know the answer, but.

• 54:42Speaker 05

  Yeah, they've got their heads in the iPad already and getting their heads out of the iPad is what I want all kids to do. I don't think we can live our lives vicariously through images sent to us by people who are manipulating. Not only our children, but also us, probably buying the thing in the first place. So I honestly believe that, without being like, I'm nurturing you on how to bring up your children. Cause no one knows how to do that properly. If anyone had mastered it, they'd be the wealthiest person on the planet, cause they'd have written the book. My mum always said, there's no book to tell you how to do it and no one's ever got it right. You can only do your best. But I do worry about how much time, my kids do play on, you know, on electric games.

• 55:25Speaker 05

  They have got iPads, but I'm, and I've just done a programme about the effect of, of, that has on young boys. And, and is there a correlation between time spent on screen and behaviour? And there it definitely is after a certain period of time.

• 55:46Speaker 05

  And that worries me. And you don't wanna be exposed to that kind of stuff at a certain age. It's too much, too much for your brain to comprehend.

• 55:53Jake Bhardwaj?

  It's crazy to think that we've gone from, oh, it's, you know, we don't want you to go out to the park. Late at night anymore, cause you know, you might get abducted or kidnapped, well, it's dangerous out there. But we'd much rather keep you in your room and here's your iPad that actually gives you access to the entire world.

• 56:12Speaker 05

  Yeah, the world of parks and all the people that inhabit them.

• 56:14Jake Bhardwaj?

  Exactly.

• 56:15Speaker 05

  I'm not sure how effective it will be with the new legislation in terms of phones. Cause you can't have one rule for somebody and another rule for somebody else, particularly if they're in the same school. Cause he's got the new iPad 28 and I've only got the iPad 16. And that means that I'm less the person than he is, or she is, whatever it may be. I think that creates division, it's divisive. I think the whole system is divisive. And I also question how many people who own those companies allow their own children to have access to the kind of stuff that they're promoting and those devices. That's me, that's me cancelled.

• 56:52Jake Bhardwaj?

  Well, that's what we provide. We provide platforms for anyone to come on and get cancelled. I'm always this close. As my wife often warns me. I go, you all right with me going away and doing the bits and bobs? I'm busier than I ever was, so I don't see you all that much. She goes, go make, hey, once the sun shines, babe, you're fine, because you'll soon become irrelevant and/or cancelled.

• 57:19Speaker 05

  Thank you, Daisy, love you.

• 57:20Jake Bhardwaj?

  Yeah, but she's right.

• 57:25Jake Bhardwaj?

  But she's right, not about you, about all of us.

• 57:27Speaker 05

  Yeah, sure.

• 57:27Jake Bhardwaj?

  Do you know what I mean? And, and, and that is the way that society has gone now.

• 57:33Jake Bhardwaj?

  So, yeah, I am, I don't know how I got into this, where were we gonna finish it? So, yeah, I, I, I do want them to have.

• 57:41Speaker 05

  You're a big believer in kids having fun.

• 57:44Jake Bhardwaj?

  Embracing a bit more curiosity in the real sphere as opposed to.

• 57:50Speaker 05

  I don't want it to be those.

• 57:51Jake Bhardwaj?

  Made up.

• 57:52Speaker 05

  I don't want them to be, you know, doing county lines, you know. And I think there's some serious stuff going on out there that we are turning a blind eye to in terms of child slavery in this country. Yeah, manipulation of young minds into sexual areas of, of, of sex. So some real serious dark issues out there, but in the, in the main, you want young people not to be forced to grow up very quickly. Because of what they experience on a screen. I want them to grow up slowly, enjoying life, experimenting between themselves, learning how to interact. How to become, make friends with people. Break up and then, then walk away peacefully rather than hurting each other.

• 58:35Speaker 05

  You know, and everyone, you know, seeing them on a keyboard and saying, I'm gonna kill you is one thing. But people are now actually doing it, you know, not all the time, but there is an increase in that. And I want us to stay clear of that.

• 58:48Jake Bhardwaj?

  Right, Ross, we've achieved a lot in today's session, I feel. Do, do you feel the same?

• 58:54Speaker 05

  I do.

• 58:55Jake Bhardwaj?

  I've got one final exercise to really test your curiosity. I've got a few situations that I'm gonna present to you. One by one, we'll go through them and see how far your curiosity can really go. Okay, you ready? You look ready, he looks ready.

• 59:11Speaker 04

  He's very ready.

• 59:12Jake Bhardwaj?

  Situation number one, you're on location, your phone rings. It's a withheld number, not a number you recognise. You're picking it up or you're deleting?

• 59:25Speaker 05

  Never pick up a withheld number.

• 59:28Jake Bhardwaj?

  Never, ever?

• 59:29Speaker 05

  No.

• 59:30Jake Bhardwaj?

  Why?

• 59:31Speaker 05

  Cause you don't know the answer on the end of the phone.

• 59:33Jake Bhardwaj?

  No, no one know that.

• 59:35Speaker 05

  Cause you don't know cause it's withheld.

• 59:36Speaker 04

  Yeah. Why are they withholding it?

• 59:39Speaker 05

  I know them, pick them up. And sometimes, I, this is about curiosity. No matter who it is and if I know them, no matter where I am, obviously not when we're recording, I will pick the phone up just in case it's bad news.

• 59:51Jake Bhardwaj?

  It does seem like we're actually making progress. Scenario two, Ross, I wonder if you've ever been curious about what you would look like?

• 1:00:02Speaker 05

  Ah, yeah.

• 1:00:04Jake Bhardwaj?

  With hair.

• 1:00:05Speaker 04

  For the audio listener, Joe is holding a long blonde wig.

• 1:00:11Speaker 05

  What's your name?

• 1:00:15Jake Bhardwaj?

  Wow.

• 1:00:16Speaker 05

  Hi, Ross Campier. Why not? James Farquhar Smythe.

• 1:00:24Jake Bhardwaj?

  It's, I can't stop looking at you.

• 1:00:29Speaker 05

  Here's a story that'll make you laugh. Thursday nights rugby training, Brentwood first team supposedly, I was here, even though I was in East Enders. I used to get gorbachoft a lot, like people scraping my head.

• 1:00:42Speaker 05

  I was playing Dilly Dally, which was a drag queen in a drama called City Central. So I was practising the number, which was, I will survive.

• 1:00:53Jake Bhardwaj?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:54Speaker 05

  It was supposed to be a Mancunian accent. As long as I know how to live, I know I will survive, cause I've got all my love to give. Anyway, I was practising it, so I'd come back from training, I hadn't showered, I was meeting everyone in the green dragon for a pint, not everyone, some of the players. And I thought my back garden, you couldn't see into it, I picked it, picked the house, but it was winter. So some of the, some of the evergreens were there, but a lot of the other non, non evergreens had dropped. So you could see into my garden and I had a, this is in Shendefield, Essex, Brentwood area. I had an extension at the back, which was sort of like where I had a dining room. So basically walked into the green dragon and everyone started whistling and singing, cause they'd seen me fucking topless, wearing a pair of Falkens.

• 1:01:33Jake Bhardwaj?

  What, you didn't, you didn't know they were there?

• 1:01:35Speaker 05

  They were in the, the neighbours were in the back garden looking at, looking out from the window, like, it's a bit odd, isn't it? That's Grant's house. What's Grant doing? He's got his top off, he's singing to a hairbrush, wearing neoprene undies and high heels, yeah, bit odd. There you go.

• 1:01:51Jake Bhardwaj?

  Are you curious to see what I look like with a full head of hair?

• 1:01:53Speaker 05

  I am.

• 1:01:56Jake Bhardwaj?

  Raise your eyebrows as well.

• 1:01:56Speaker 05

  I'm so glad you said that.

• 1:02:01Speaker 04

  Oh, wow, the doctor will see you now.

• 1:02:08Speaker 05

  It looks a bit, it's a cross between Carry On. It's slightly Carry On vibes, but quite serious, like it could be. My Lord, Ladies and Gentlemen. It's a bit of both, isn't it? Slightly naval with the beard, yeah?

• 1:02:24Speaker 04

  You look like you're playing the Origin series of Captain Birdseye.

• 1:02:28Speaker 05

  Where'd he come from?

• 1:02:29Speaker 04

  You're sort of a young Captain Birdseye, like how he got into all the fish fingers and stuff.

• 1:02:37Jake Bhardwaj?

  Enough of that.

• 1:02:38Speaker 05

  Sure, sure.

• 1:02:39Jake Bhardwaj?

  Back to being, sorry, I got, that was unprofessional of me. I'm back, I'm back in the room. There's been a green button here since the start of the session and you haven't pressed it yet, which is good, good control. But you've got a decision to make now. You can either press it and see what happens. Or you can fight that urge and not press it. And see what doesn't happen.

• 1:03:08Jake Bhardwaj?

  If you do press it, it could be something good. Or it could be something bad. So would you like to press it or not like to press it?

• 1:03:18Speaker 05

  Right, well, on the basis of the, of the therapy that I've gained today. And it has made me think about my curiosity.

• 1:03:31Speaker 05

  Which I've, I'm hoping that I've tamed a bit over the years, or maybe the experiences that I've had because of it have tamed me. I can't help myself, I'm still gonna press the button. Are you ready?

• 1:03:45Jake Bhardwaj?

  Are you ready?

• 1:03:46Speaker 05

  I'm ready.

• 1:03:52Speaker 04

  Right, Joe, you said that wasn't gonna hurt.

• 1:03:56Speaker 04

  You said, you, ah!

• 1:04:01Speaker 04

  Okay, okay. He said that the therapy would work, he wouldn't press the button, and then I would be fine. I mean, sat here with these fucking things stuck on my arse. For the whole episode.

• 1:04:12Jake Bhardwaj?

  Giselle, go.

• 1:04:13Speaker 04

  Oh, God.

• 1:04:14Jake Bhardwaj?

  Hang on, not, not only has he gone from, yeah, I'm pushing the button, he's gone, go on, Giselle, go. Go on, Giselle, go, let, I'm curious to see what that actually feels like. Um, well,

• 1:04:29Jake Bhardwaj?

  I'll be, I'll be straight with you.

• 1:04:32Jake Bhardwaj?

  I, well, I got the diagnosis wrong, I'm human. I think your curiosity is exactly what's made you the national pleasure that you are.

• 1:04:44Speaker 04

  Fucking hell, that's good, man.

• 1:04:45Jake Bhardwaj?

  That's, that's another level.

• 1:04:47Speaker 05

  It is another level.

• 1:04:48Jake Bhardwaj?

  That's not national treasure status, you're a national pleasure.

• 1:04:51Speaker 05

  Coming from you, I take it.

• 1:04:54Jake Bhardwaj?

  You've been fucking unbelievable. I hope you've managed to take something out of today's session.

• 1:05:01Speaker 05

  Yeah, I've not wasted, I've not wasted my day, it's been brilliant, thank you very much.

• 1:05:05Jake Bhardwaj?

  As is usually the case with many a client that we've helped, we give them a badge to take away to remind them of the progress they've made in their session.

• 1:05:14Speaker 04

  We've got the badge, it's been made. Curiosity didn't kill the cat today, sadly with the button, curiosity killed the Jake. And that is the badge that has been made. This is for you. This is for you.

• 1:05:26Jake Bhardwaj?

  So you're giving it, that's yours. And of course, we give every client a lollipop to take away with them.

• 1:05:34Speaker 05

  Thank you, first off. Want to go right round? Yeah, right way around.

• 1:05:37Jake Bhardwaj?

  Curiosity killed the Jake. And you've gone for red for?

• 1:05:41Speaker 04

  Danger.

• 1:05:42Jake Bhardwaj?

  Red for danger. Yeah, you run into that.

• 1:05:46Speaker 05

  There we go, thank you very much.

• 1:05:47Jake Bhardwaj?

  Mate, honestly, you've been unbelievable. Thank you so much. Ross Kemp, everybody! Please, Janet will see you out, please, go, Janet will take you, thank you.

• 1:05:57Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 1:06:00Jake Bhardwaj?

  If you would like to join the doctor's waiting list, then please subscribe to our YouTube channel and follow us on Instagram, at We'll See You Now Show. Remember, unless it's not clear enough already, I'm not a real doctor. And if you need any professional help, you'll find a link to great support services on our Instagram. I've been Joe Marler, he's been Jake Bhardwaj. This has been Joe Marler, we'll see you now. And we'll both see him next time.

• 1:06:25Speaker 04

  I can't believe that, yeah.

• 1:06:26Jake Bhardwaj?

  Yeah, we will.

• 1:06:28Speaker 02

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