Ben Stiller & Seth Rogen

Two comedy giants. One memorable night! Ben Stiller and Seth Rogen join Josh for a very special taping of HAPPY SAD CONFUSED to discuss SEVERANCE, THE STUDIO, the creative process, and so much more. Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:31Speaker 01

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• 0:59Josh Horowitz?

  Is there a better chance of Vin Diesel being in the studio, or you being in a Fast and Furious movie?

• 1:05Speaker 03

  Oh god, I think, wow, I would prefer to be in a Fast and Furious movie. I don't know. Take that as you will. I just, that to me is a big opportunity.

• 1:18Speaker 04

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, Sad, Confused begins now.

• 1:26Josh Horowitz?

  Hey guys, I'm Josh and this is Happy Sad Confused. Today on the show, two absolute icons of comedy, amazing creatives, Seth Rogen, Ben Stiller, together at a live event we taped in Los Angeles. This is an awesome one. Hey guys, welcome to another edition of Happy Sad Confused. I am back in New York. Quick whirlwind trip, literally 24-hour trip to LA to do this really special event. Still riding high off of it. And I think you guys are gonna really dig this. For those that couldn't be there in person, this is now for the world to enjoy. Seth Rogen, Ben Stiller, Talking Severance, The Studio, and so much more. Before we get to that, quick reminder, as always, our Patreon,

• 2:10Josh Horowitz?

  check it out. Early access, discount codes, merch, autographed posters, all sorts of cool stuff. Patreon.com/happystayconfused. Supporting us over there helps us make more stuff over here. Like this amazing event. Look at that segue. Um, so this was our third Los Angeles live event. Two this year. We're upping it. You know, we're starting to make these a little bit more frequent. I don't think I'll ever do them like super on the regular, but when the right opportunity comes, the right timing happens, and it all lines up. I love doing these in LA. The Fine Arts Theater has been our home so far, and this was our third sellout in a row.

• 2:50Josh Horowitz?

  And it was a really cool one. This is a really special one. So Seth Rogen, Ben Stiller are, of course, the creative forces behind the two juggernauts that are The Studio and Severance. They are dominating the Emmys, the Emmy conversation this year. Severance has the most nominations of any show, 27 nominations. It's gonna take home a bunch of things, I'm sure, as well it should. As should The Studio, which I'm of course obsessed with, too. 23 Emmy nominations, including, I mean, you know, the likes of Scorsese, Dave Franco, Zoe Kravitz,

• 3:31Josh Horowitz?

  Ron Howard, all these like amazing supporting performances, not to mention the leads like Seth and Ike Baranholz, and et cetera. It's such a fantastic satire. And look at the Hollywood system. So anyway, like the Get these two, you know, get one of these guys on stage, of course, is a treat to get them together. Amazing. Once in a lifetime opportunity. They've never done something like this, truly. Um, and this was a great chat. We talk about the many kind of similarities in their careers, overlaps, people they've worked with. As you would expect, this is a very funny, very light conversation. These are two of the funniest men on the planet. So, um,

• 4:13Josh Horowitz?

  this is gonna be a really entertaining chat for you to listen or watch, I believe. Um, a couple of notes, really only one note. Uh, you'll hear, I think you'll hear a beeping occasionally. Luckily, again, these guys are very smart and funny, so we were all able to kind of like riff and integrate it into the course of the conversation. I didn't realize what it was at the time. I actually thought it was like a fire alarm or something. Of course, duh, it was just like an amber alert thing. Not just, that's, that's a concern. Let's be real. That is a concern, but it wasn't anything that was life-threatening for all of us. And it kind of pops up here and there throughout, um, the show. So, luckily, again, when you have Seth and Ben on stage, you can, you can have fun with moments like that.

• 4:56Josh Horowitz?

  Um, my thanks to Seth and Ben, to everybody at Apple, to the 400 folks that packed into that theater to make it an amazing sellout and hugely energetic and fun event. To the entire team that helped make it possible on my end. Um, we'll do more of these, I promise. And let's get right to it, because I've got the exclusive guys. No one else has this. Enjoy a, a really special night in Los Angeles with Seth Rogen and Ben Stiller. Uh, enjoy. Hi, everybody. How's it going? Uh, I'm Josh Horowitz and welcome to a live event for Happy Sad Confused. Thank you guys for coming out tonight. Um, welcome to the Fine Arts Theater in Beverly Hills.

• 5:41Josh Horowitz?

  Thank you so much for making this night so special. You guys sold out this event in record time. This is our third live Happy Sad Confused in Los Angeles. You guys make it so special. So, thank you again for coming out. Um, yes.

• 5:55Josh Horowitz?

  I know why you sold it out so quickly because we have not one but two amazing icons coming on the stage in just a moment. Look, they are both comedy giants. They both can do it all. They can do comedy, they can do drama, they are writers, directors, performers. They've contributed so much to television and film the last few decades and most recently, obviously have created, helped create two of our, two of my favorite shows on television right now. Ben Stiller, of course, as if you didn't know, is executive producer, has directed a bunch of the episodes, of course, for Severance, the creative force alongside Dan Erickson of this amazing show.

• 6:33Josh Horowitz?

  It has 27 Emmy nominations, guys, the most of any show this year. Well deserved. And Mr. Seth Rogen, performer, writer, director, co-creator of The Studio, this love letter to Hollywood, this amazing satire, 23 Emmy nominations, the most of any freshman comedy ever, full stop. So, 50 nominations combined tonight. Pretty good, pretty good. Without any further ado, I'm gonna bring them out on stage and we're gonna have a fun little conversation. You ready for this? Should we do it? We're here, we're here, right?

• 7:15Josh Horowitz?

  Please give a warm welcome first to Mr. Seth Rogen, everybody. Come on out, Seth!

• 7:24Josh Horowitz?

  There he is, and then we have the one and only Mr. Ben Stiller in the house. Ben, come on out.

• 7:35Speaker 03

  Oh, I didn't do that.

• 7:38Josh Horowitz?

  Always so rude, Seth.

• 7:40Speaker 03

  I know, I didn't do that.

• 7:42Josh Horowitz?

  Hi, guys.

• 7:43Speaker 05

  Hey, how's it going?

• 7:44Josh Horowitz?

  It's good to see you both. Congratulations on everything.

• 7:47Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 7:48Josh Horowitz?

  I know what the audience is thinking, look at this diversity onstage.

• 7:51Speaker 03

  I know.

• 7:53Speaker 05

  It doesn't get more Jewish.

• 7:54Speaker 03

  Yeah. There could be like a man dovening up here with us and it would not be more Jewish than it currently is right now.

• 8:02Speaker 05

  Let's, let's open the law firm.

• 8:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly.

• 8:05Speaker 05

  Rogen, Harwood, Stiller.

• 8:07Josh Horowitz?

  Should we do like a 23andMe right now to see if we are?

• 8:09Speaker 03

  Exactly, there's no way we're not related.

• 8:11Speaker 05

  You don't even have to.

• 8:11Speaker 03

  I regret fucking both of you earlier now.

• 8:17Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, so we have a lot to talk about. You guys, look, you have a lot of similarities in your careers, but surprisingly, not a ton of overlap. Is there a meet-cute origin story for when you guys met? Do you remember when you first met each other?

• 8:33Speaker 05

  Yeah, because it was on the set of...

• 8:35Speaker 03

  It was on Freaks and Geeks.

• 8:37Speaker 05

  Freaks and Geeks.

• 8:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, so...

• 8:41Speaker 05

  You were eight?

• 8:42Speaker 03

  I was. I was sixteen.

• 8:45Speaker 05

  Sixteen, sorry.

• 8:47Speaker 03

  And you were thirty-two.

• 8:48Speaker 05

  Exactly.

• 8:49Speaker 03

  And I remember that because I asked you how old you were.

• 8:53Speaker 05

  Seriously?

• 8:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 8:57Speaker 03

  And you with sort of like embarrassment said thirty-two. And I think my reaction was like, "Whoa."

• 9:05Speaker 05

  You're almost dead.

• 9:06Speaker 03

  We've got a thirty-two-year-old on set.

• 9:09Speaker 05

  Yeah, I've been old for a long time.

• 9:13Speaker 05

  Yeah, I know, that was it. And it was crazy, because I remember Judd saying, "There's this really funny kid, and he's really good, and he's writing stuff, and he's great, and he's kind of doing his own thing."

• 9:24Speaker 03

  And it was so exciting for us. Something About Mary had come out a couple of years earlier, which to me was maybe the most mind-shattering comedy I ever saw. And I really think there is like my life watching movies before seeing The Nut Sack and the Zipper, and my life watching movies after seeing The Nut Sack and the Zipper.

• 9:44Speaker 05

  You're welcome.

• 9:45Speaker 03

  Yes, you're welcome, please. And Meet the Parents had literally just come out, like, right before we shot it. So for us, it was like an unbelievable thrill. And now I look older than you, so... I somehow passed you.

• 9:59Speaker 05

  We all catch up with each other.

• 10:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly. All Jews even out.

• 10:02Speaker 05

  For sure.

• 10:05Speaker 05

  There's no getting away from it.

• 10:08Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, you do share some interesting similarities. You both like clearly had a drive very early on, respectively. You were making home movies right from the start. You were clearly had a passion for this. You were doing stand-up by the age of 13, right?

• 10:24Speaker 05

  And you were also making movies too.

• 10:25Speaker 03

  I was making home movies with my camcorder, yeah. With Evan, who I still work with.

• 10:32Josh Horowitz?

  Upgraded the equipment slightly. But I mean, where did that drive come from for both of you? I mean, it seems like you had a very like certitude very early on. Was it just from digesting, like just absorbing comedy and film early on, or what?

• 10:47Speaker 05

  It's a good question. I mean, I don't, do we know? Do we really know where it all comes from? You know what I mean?

• 10:53Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 10:53Speaker 05

  Like your desire to do something? It just was there. Maybe it was being around it because my parents were in show business and were, I was fat. Yes, Jerry Stiller and Anne Mira.

• 11:05Speaker 05

  That was incredible to be in that family because it was, that was so exciting what they were doing to me and my sister that it was, what they were doing, not to us, but like...

• 11:17Josh Horowitz?

  We were going, whoa, we're going down a dark path.

• 11:19Speaker 05

  No weirdness, no. But what they were doing, what we were watching them do on stage, and that was so much more exciting and interesting than school or anything like that. And I think I was drawn to that. And then, and then where that, you know, how you have that drive inside, I think it's desire to, you know, do it because you have, I don't know though, where does it come from?

• 11:42Josh Horowitz?

  You, I mean, you had a, your parents were, with all due respect, not Anne Mira and Jerry Stiller.

• 11:47Speaker 03

  No.

• 11:50Speaker 03

  But they were big movie fans. Like, I grew up watching a ton of movies. I honestly think that was a big part of it. Like, they really loved comedy and were big fans of Bill Murray and Saturday Night Live and SCTV and Harold Ramus and Martin Short. And like, they really like inundated me with a lot of comedy from a young age and a lot of movies. They would take me to movies that I was far too young to be seeing at a very young age. And they were incredibly encouraging of me. Like, a lot of, I look, you know, it's funny because I always joke, I have a partner Evan, who I met in bar mitzvah class, and we started writing together. And his parents were always like outwardly discouraging of us writing together. And I love to bring it up because they're still around and I want them to feel the pain.

• 12:38Speaker 03

  Whereas my parents were incredibly encouraging. My mother, I told my mother I wanted to do stand-up when I was 13 and she drove me to comedy clubs, like, every week. And she was incredibly supportive. And I think that was like, a huge thing is, it was just like, something I loved and they really helped me do it, yeah.

• 12:54Josh Horowitz?

  It's also interesting because both of you from pretty early on, were not just acting, you were creating, right? Like, you were a writer on Freaks and Geeks at a very young age. You had-

• 13:04Speaker 03

  I was writing Undeclared, which was right-

• 13:06Josh Horowitz?

  Undeclared, sorry.

• 13:06Speaker 03

  But I was 18, so I was still pretty young.

• 13:08Josh Horowitz?

  Very young. You had The Ben Stiller Show. So like, from then on, you were kind of captaining your own respective ships.

• 13:15Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, a lot of it was out of necessity for me, because nobody else was hiring me. So I would like, make my own stuff. You know, I'd go and audition, I wasn't really, I don't think I was great at auditioning, or even maybe at acting at that point, honestly. You know, I was nervous and whatever, but do my, so I'd go do my own stuff where I felt comfortable with my friends, and pursued that, and, yeah, explored that, and kind of, the directing part of it was part of it, because I was, you know, directing the stuff I was doing too, which I enjoyed. And it was always sort of connected, but in my mind, it wasn't always connected, because I always loved making movies as a kid. That was really how I saw myself, was being a director.

• 13:55Speaker 03

  Oh no.

• 13:56Josh Horowitz?

  Always, always a fun noise to hear in a Q and A.

• 14:00Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 14:01Josh Horowitz?

  Always the thing I look forward to.

• 14:04Speaker 03

  Is it bad? Just tell if it's bad.

• 14:08Speaker 03

  How bad is it?

• 14:10Speaker 05

  Uh, as long as it's not COVID again.

• 14:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly.

• 14:15Josh Horowitz?

  I think that means we're doing a great job.

• 14:16Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 14:17Josh Horowitz?

  Whatever that, whatever that sound is. Um, other-

• 14:19Speaker 03

  It's the comedy alert.

• 14:22Josh Horowitz?

  You're too funny, bee. Uh, other similarities, let's see. You've both worked with Barbra Streisand.

• 14:30Speaker 05

  That's right.

• 14:31Speaker 03

  We did. It's sand, not zand.

• 14:34Speaker 05

  Right, sand.

• 14:35Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 14:35Speaker 03

  She will be the first to correct you.

• 14:36Josh Horowitz?

  Lickers Pizza taught me that.

• 14:38Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 14:38Speaker 05

  Right, right.

• 14:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, she played both of our mothers.

• 14:41Speaker 05

  That's right.

• 14:41Speaker 03

  In movies.

• 14:42Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 14:43Speaker 03

  Again, very Jewish stuff going on up here.

• 14:47Speaker 03

  The statistical-

• 14:48Speaker 05

  I feel, I feel like Evan should be up here on this panel.

• 14:51Speaker 03

  Yes, exactly, circumcising someone.

• 14:55Speaker 03

  Wait, did I, I, I, could I, did you direct a lot of The Ben Stiller Show?

• 14:59Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 15:00Speaker 03

  Oh, see, I don't know if anyone's seen that show.

• 15:01Speaker 05

  No, no, no, but I didn't direct all of them. Like, there's also, yeah, there was like-

• 15:04Speaker 03

  It's still so funny and, and, and, and commit so hard to the various genres that it is.

• 15:09Speaker 05

  Yes, that was the, that was the fun thing for me was like, I would, like, we'd do Takeoff on, you know, like, Cape Fear.

• 15:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly. It's like, looks like Cape Fear.

• 15:16Speaker 05

  And we like, we're like, oh, let's, we're like, making a little mini Cape Fear, and that was the fun part. And then it being funny was also kind of important, too, I knew. But I was more into like, oh, we're actually making-

• 15:25Speaker 03

  Well, it was Kate Munster.

• 15:26Speaker 05

  Kate Munster.

• 15:28Speaker 03

  Eddie Munster. With Eddie Munster. It's so good. My favorite one is, is the Woody Allen, uh, Husbands of Wives one, where it's Frankenstein, and you do a Sidney Pollack impression.

• 15:38Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 15:39Speaker 03

  Which is a true thing of beauty. And it's one of those things where you're like, how do you even impersonate Sidney Pollack? And then you do it.

• 15:47Josh Horowitz?

  And clearly appealing to the broadest possible audience, because everybody loves a good Sidney Pollack impression out there. I do, we do.

• 15:54Speaker 05

  There was a big fight we had in the writers' room about who was gonna play Woody Allen in that, and, uh, and Andy Dick won.

• 16:00Speaker 03

  Andy Dick did a very good job. Did people want to do it or not want to do it?

• 16:07Speaker 05

  At the time, he wanted to.

• 16:08Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. Do we think it's more intimate?

• 16:10Speaker 03

  No.

• 16:11Josh Horowitz?

  Comedy alert again.

• 16:12Speaker 03

  Comedy alert. We're killing them.

• 16:14Speaker 05

  We said Andy Dick too many times.

• 16:17Josh Horowitz?

  You say him a third time, he comes up like, uh, Beetlejuice. Um...

• 16:22Speaker 05

  Well, by the way, one of the funniest human beings ever, wherever you are, Andy, you are-

• 16:27Speaker 03

  Wherever you are, once my parents were locked in a small room with him at an after-party for one of our premieres, and, uh, it was really, uh, it was, it was a weird scene in there. I was like, where are my parents? And I opened the small room, and it was them with Andy Dick who was just like, monologuing at them.

• 16:46Josh Horowitz?

  More points of similarity. Both have been directed by the great Steven Spielberg. More intimidating to be directed as a chi- a young man, a young, not child.

• 16:54Speaker 05

  I was like 20.

• 16:55Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, a young man, or a man of stature like you were just a few years ago. Both were intimidating for...

• 17:01Speaker 03

  It's intimidating either way, I would imagine.

• 17:03Speaker 05

  Yes, intimidating and incredible. We were actually talking about it the other night, it's like exciting and because you're working with your hero, because I feel like he was...

• 17:12Speaker 03

  Of course, yeah.

• 17:13Speaker 05

  And it's also intimidating and scary, but then he's such an open guy on set. You can ask him, once you start to get a little comfortable, you'll ask him questions and he'll give you all the fun answers that you want.

• 17:25Josh Horowitz?

  I would imagine that experience informed...

• 17:27Speaker 03

  Oh god.

• 17:30Speaker 05

  No more Steven Spielberg talk.

• 17:32Speaker 03

  Spielberg alarm.

• 17:34Speaker 05

  It's the Jewish alert.

• 17:38Josh Horowitz?

  It means there are too many Jews on the stage.

• 17:40Speaker 05

  Too many Bergs. Goldberg, Spielberg.

• 17:43Josh Horowitz?

  Jew!

• 17:49Josh Horowitz?

  Jew!

• 17:54Josh Horowitz?

  Were both of you bar mitzvahed? I was never bar mitzvahed.

• 17:57Speaker 05

  Nice way to change the subject.

• 17:59Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 18:03Speaker 05

  Yes, I was.

• 18:04Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, okay, cool.

• 18:06Speaker 03

  Huh?

• 18:06Josh Horowitz?

  What?

• 18:07Speaker 03

  What was it?

• 18:08Josh Horowitz?

  You were far away. You were bar mitzvahed as well.

• 18:10Speaker 03

  I was bar mitzvahed, yeah. I met Evan in bar mitzvah class, my writing partner.

• 18:14Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, that's right, you were saying that, yeah, of course.

• 18:53Speaker 06

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• 19:26Josh Horowitz?

  Empire of Sun must have informed Tropic Thunder a bit.

• 19:30Speaker 05

  It actually did, for sure. I mean, at that time, there were so many war movies being made. It was the era of Platoon and Hamburger Hill. And every actor my age at that time was auditioning for all those movies and going off to the bootcamps to do the actor bootcamp for the movie where they act like soldiers for two weeks. This guy named Dale Dye would train them, and then they'd go make the movie. So I thought it would be funny to make a movie about actors who really take themselves seriously. And at first, I wanted to do it about actors who went and did the bootcamp and made a movie and then came back and felt like nobody cared, like the actual Vietnam veterans.

• 20:14Speaker 05

  Yeah, it was a funny idea. But in reality, it's like, oh, that's not really that funny. But I do want to make fun of how actors take themselves seriously in those situations. So that's how the idea for the movie evolved.

• 20:28Josh Horowitz?

  Amazing. All right, let's talk a little bit about your current amazing show, Severance in the Studio, as I said. 50 combined Emmy nominations.

• 20:40Josh Horowitz?

  At this point in your careers, when you're proud of something, you feel confident, I would imagine, like you've made something that you feel proud of. Do you expect people to receive it well? Do you, like, when you release it out into the world, what is your default emotion anticipation?

• 20:56Speaker 05

  I don't. You don't, yeah. I, I dream about it and think, maybe that would be cool. And hope, but honestly, you know, you've done this enough, like, you just never know. And you could put your all into something that you think is great, and it's just sort of like, whatever. So, I mean, it just happens that way. So, it's hard, for me, it's hard not to be attached to wanting people to like it. Um, but I do not expect it at all, no.

• 21:22Josh Horowitz?

  You must, it must boggle your mind. Let's, first on Severance. The way it has been embraced, the way it is like, it's a Reddit rabbit hole for so many people. It is, it's become an obsession for, for fans, just as I presume it's an obsession for you. What's it like for you to see folks, I don't know, absorb it in that way?

• 21:41Speaker 05

  It's crazy because I've been with it for, since Dan brought the script to us, the pilot, like, eight years ago or something like that, or more, maybe like, we started working on it about six years ago. Developing and started shooting it the first season five years ago. So, it's been my full-time job for the last five years, and I've loved it, it's been amazing. But the first, like, two years was just like, I'm just doing this and nobody knows about it, or, you know, we don't know what, if people are gonna like it or not. And then, and we had all these episodes and, you know, the, the whole mythology of the show and the terminology and all that, we amongst ourselves knew it. And then when I first heard, like, people saying, like, "Inny and Audi in the world", it was so weird. It's like, oh my god, they're saying the things that Dan made up in, in his script,

• 22:25Speaker 05

  and everybody's like, into it. It's like, it was so, that was, that was so exciting.

• 22:30Josh Horowitz?

  I can't imagine, though, even like, look, obviously, your name on it helps get something made, but it's still a pretty out-there concept. I mean, like, when you and Dan are going out to Apple or whoever, like, is it, are you saying, like, it's The Office meets The Prisoner? Like, what is the shorthand? Like, what are you?

• 22:46Speaker 05

  I mean, it's, you know, he had this amazing pilot, and the tone of it was so clear that I think people got that, Apple got it. By the way, I don't think anybody else got it. Yeah, as many projects, like Escape at Dano More, the only people who bought it were Showtime when we went out to pitch, we pitched it to everybody. So, that happens all the time. Same thing with Apple on this, they were the only ones who wanted Severance. So, um, they really saw it, and thank goodness they saw it. And, uh, the pitch, you know, was kind of like, yeah, it's weird, but it's also kind of funny, and, you know, but I think it was on the page, what he wrote was what it was about.

• 23:20Josh Horowitz?

  For you Seth, I mean, I remember I got a chance to see some early episodes and I talked to you about it. I mean, like, you knew people like me, like, you know, nerds of the industry, were gonna love this thing. But I would imagine you must have had some concern, like, is it too inside-baseball? Isn't it gonna resonate on a broader level?

• 23:36Speaker 03

  I was honestly also very concerned that people in the industry would not... we really wanted it to ring true to people in the industry and we wanted it to pass like our own, you know, kinda bullshit detectors as far as like, is this the type of thing that happens in Hollywood? Does it feel like it's kinda cutting to the core of certain things that you feel as though, you know, as people who work here are like, are kinda funny or tragic or interesting things? And so that was actually really my fear, was that people in the industry would watch it and think we misrepresented what it is that we do and that so many people like, have dedicated their lives to. That was a real fear, was like, oh, we've just worked so

• 24:21Speaker 03

  hard to sort of, kind of explore our experience of this place and it would be such a bummer if the other people who worked here didn't think that we were like, kind of capturing it in an interesting way. So, that was actually real fear, is I knew a lot of people I knew were gonna watch it, which is not something I feel about how a lot of stuff I do. A lot of stuff I do, it's funny, when you do something like this, it makes you realize how few of your friends watch most things you do.

• 24:47Josh Horowitz?

  Where were you last time?

• 24:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly, yeah. Cause I was like, oh, this is what it's like when my friends watch a thing. They all talk to you about it. Supposed to like, everything I've made in the last six years, it's like, nobody talks about it that much. And so, I knew people in the industry were probably gonna watch it and so, I was actually very nervous that I was like, oh, like, I'm sort of really exposing myself to the people I look up to the most and to the people I most desperately want to impress, much like my character. And so that was really my fear, was like, oh, I assume if you're someone I like and respect, you'll probably check out this show if you heard it's about the industry. And if you hate it, that will be humiliating to me. So I felt that a lot. Yeah.

• 25:35Josh Horowitz?

  Put on your producer, creator, director hat and I'd love to hear your perspective on each other's shows. I'm like, what's impressive for you, knowing what you know about how the sausage is made, about how the other has made their show?

• 25:48Speaker 05

  I have not seen the studio.

• 25:52Speaker 05

  Just, I should've said that up top.

• 25:53Speaker 03

  Okay, yeah.

• 25:54Speaker 05

  I'm sorry.

• 25:54Josh Horowitz?

  Wow.

• 25:55Speaker 05

  But I've heard incredible.

• 25:56Speaker 03

  You haven't seen anything I've done since that episode of Freaks and Kinks?

• 25:58Speaker 05

  Exactly. But your friends told me it was amazing.

• 26:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, thank you.

• 26:04Speaker 05

  I'm telling you, it's like, it was funny listening to you say that because I have watched it, I consumed it, yeah, I think it's so good. And what you're, I mean, everything you're saying there, like, first of all, the fear was totally unfounded because it's so captures the reality. What I think is amazing about the show is that it both captures the craziness, uh, let me see that, it captures the reality of the business. All that is so real in that show, yet it's incredibly heightened too, and, right, and just like over the top too. But the more over the top it is, the more it actually is underscoring how ridiculous the reality of Hollywood is because it is so real. Because all of those conversations that are happening all the time, like, almost, it's like one of the

• 26:49Speaker 05

  most accurate representations of Hollywood ever. And I know it's like this kind of fun, frothy thing too, but it really goes to the heart of it. And then, the boldness of the filmmaking and the willingness to say, hey, we're gonna make a choice and, you know, have a style to shoot it in a way that, you know, is a huge commitment, but ends up, I think, really just being incredible because it's singular and unique. And it also captures, whenever you do a shot that goes on, and there've been a lot of wonders in the last few years, I know, but, which is, you know, by the way, it's a great thing, a wonder, but like, when you keep a shot going for a long time, there's no way for the tension not to build up because it's just going and going and going. And the best ones usually, for me, are the ones you don't notice are a wonder for the first, like, five or seven or 10

• 27:34Speaker 05

  minutes. And this show is like that because you know they're all wonders, but yet you forget they're wonders too because you're just watching what's going on. So I think that that filmmaking level is just very high and, and I think he's just incredible, it's great.

• 27:46Speaker 03

  That was great.

• 27:49Speaker 05

  I love, it's exciting to watch.

• 27:50Speaker 03

  Thank you, that's so nice. What a lovely, what a lovely.

• 27:53Speaker 05

  The treat, right, when you turn on the TV and he's like, oh my god.

• 27:56Speaker 03

  That's so nice.

• 27:58Josh Horowitz?

  Have you seen, have you seen Severance?

• 27:59Speaker 03

  I've not seen Severance.

• 28:02Speaker 03

  I saw, I actually started it and then stopped. A little slow. I watched the first three episodes. Wasn't for me. No, I. Appreciate the honesty. I love Severance. I mean, a lot. I mean, what I've expressed to Ben, honestly, like drunkenly at parties over the last several years was, like, to me, like, sort of precise, clean comedy, like, that is highly specific and highly composed and highly curated in its style and its timing and its staging, to me, is something that, like, so many people try to do and,

• 28:45Speaker 03

  and, and it removes the actual, like, life and comedy from the thing. And what, to me, is so impressive about the show is that it is all those things. It's, like, precise and composed and beautiful and color-coded and, and, you know, and the blocking and the staging and the sets and all of that and the rhythm of the shots and the timing of the editing is so dialed in and specific. And normally, that makes a thing feel less alive and less funny, I find. But I honestly think, like, not since, like, like, things like Doctor Strangelove have there been, like, a combination of, like, precision and comedy that actually, like, functions very, very well, like this show does. And to me,

• 29:29Speaker 03

  that is, like, it's so, it's, I, I've tried to do it and, and failed. Like, I, I've, I've seen how hard it is. Like, and so, to me, it's like, the whole thing, the fact that it is as specific and, again, sort of, like, precise and, like, you know, and, and almost, like, sterile at times, but in a beautiful way as it is, the fact that it's still alive and comedic is, is so, it's, like, impossible to do that. No one else, no one else has done that, I think, in a very, in, like, 50 years or something. So, it's like, it's like Jacques Tati, you know, it's things like that, that are, like, they're, like, impossible to do. Like, very few people can do it. So, to me, it's really impressive. It's, yes.

• 30:10Speaker 05

  Thank you, thank you.

• 30:13Speaker 03

  You've heard me say that to you several times also.

• 30:15Josh Horowitz?

  Now it's on the record, though. Now it means something.

• 30:18Speaker 05

  I would just put a caveat to that, which is the freedom, you're talking about the comedy of it, and like, the thing, I do feel like I'm sort of, it's sort of cheating comedy-wise, is because it's not a comedy. So, any comedy that you get when you're making something that's not a comedy is bonus.

• 30:33Josh Horowitz?

  You're breaking the tension, you're, yeah.

• 30:34Speaker 05

  You're not, the expectation from the audience is not, make me laugh, they're like, what is this? And then you can throw in laughs, so it's, I think it's harder, honestly, to do what you're doing in the studio. Execution-wise, it's as hard or whatever, it's any of this, because you're actually having to deliver a comedy, too. And do something that has style and all that stuff.

• 30:54Josh Horowitz?

  But what strikes me about both of yours, and kind of like a reverse, is, as you say, like, you know, yours is like ostensibly, you know, existential, very serious, and these, but it has this real like absurdist quality to it. And yours is kind of this flip side, where it's this broad comedy at times, that has real dramatic heft, and like, real, you know, characters that are, that we connect with. So you're both kind of like, finding a way to tackle both.

• 31:20Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, I think what's interesting in the studio is you're also doing satire, right? And commentary, but then you're also having characters that you have to invest in also, and have a dramatic arc, but you're also trying to comment on all of that, too. And also coming from this place of love of the movies, and not becoming a cynical thing that's just like, you know, trashing everything. So that's, that's the other thing.

• 31:44Speaker 03

  And I'm trying to fall down in every episode.

• 31:47Speaker 05

  Which is always enjoyable.

• 31:49Josh Horowitz?

  That's the drinking game, yeah. It's funny, I mean, obviously, the studio tackles kind of this theme of like art versus commerce, and I thought, I'm thinking of your directing work, I mean, Reality Bites is about that in many ways, as well. I mean, is that, that's something that I would imagine, has that been something that's been kind of tough to negotiate throughout your careers? You seemingly both have really marched to your own drummer and made stuff that's personal and that you find funny, but you have to also think commerce sometimes, too.

• 32:16Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, you're just living your life and figuring out what you want and what's important to you, and what those, those creative decisions are, and where you're at, at that point in your life. And so, that's, that's been a constant part of the journey, and, you know, trying to figure it out.

• 32:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm not as like, I think on the show, my character is like heavily conflicted by it because he could get fired, you know, by the powers that be should he not make money. And I am generally not in that position. So it's, it's much easier for me to err on the side of art, you know. But it is something that is, I'd say like, the most stressed out moments in my job have probably been when I feel that exact, you know, that inflection point, you know?

• 33:00Josh Horowitz?

  It's also interesting. I mean, it feels like, in some ways, look, as we well know, television is in this amazing age where these kinds of shows get these kind of amazing budgets and you're able to kind of like achieve greatness. And you've obviously had such great work in film. And in some ways, like, you know, coming off of, I know, something like The Interview or Zoolander 2, you both talked very frankly about those being kind of pivot points in some ways for both of you. Do you see?

• 33:25Speaker 05

  Yes, yes. The interview for me was

• 33:27Speaker 03

  I saw

• 33:28Speaker 05

  when I realized, I really

• 33:30Speaker 03

  Why try anymore?

• 33:31Josh Horowitz?

  He cracked the code.

• 33:33Speaker 03

  They did.

• 33:34Josh Horowitz?

  But in, in some ways, did receptions to those inform going to TV and doing, and trying something different?

• 33:42Speaker 05

  No, for me, it wasn't about going to TV. It was just about like, that was a point for me where I was like stepping back and going, okay, what am I, why am I doing this? What, like, when I go through a failure, you know, that doesn't feel great? Like, it really made me ask questions of myself. Like, why am I doing this? What, what's important to me? And that was great to have that clarity. It was, you know, kind of not a fun time, but there's also a lot of other stuff going on in my life. But what I came out was like, oh, I really want to make sure I'm just doing things that I want to do in the moment that are going to make me, you know, happy. Something I want to see that I want to watch. And that's really how I was then able to kind of like make decisions on things after that. And for

• 34:27Speaker 05

  me, it was a little bit clearer.

• 34:29Josh Horowitz?

  And, and for you, Seth?

• 34:30Speaker 05

  Not that I didn't want to watch Zoolander 2. It was just like,

• 34:33Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 34:34Speaker 05

  It was just, no, I didn't, no, because I, but not really. Because like, I honestly, like, for, I think directing and acting for me was what I, I really got some clarity on there, which is like, I, I didn't want to have to stare at myself when I was editing a movie because I

• 34:48Speaker 03

  I love it. Thank you, thank you.

• 34:52Speaker 05

  But I just didn't want to have to keep on directing myself.

• 34:54Speaker 03

  Do you not like directing yourself now?

• 34:55Speaker 05

  I stopped doing it after that.

• 34:56Speaker 03

  Oh wow, I never thought I'd do that.

• 34:58Speaker 05

  Yeah, and been very, very happy because I like to just be able to do one thing at a time. It's so much more enjoyable to do that, for me.

• 35:06Speaker 03

  So, yeah, no, I get that.

• 35:08Josh Horowitz?

  Do you direct actors the way you like to be directed? Like, what's your...

• 35:13Speaker 05

  I, you know, I don't even understand how, like, to explain what directing is. Because it's such a...

• 35:20Speaker 03

  Different for every person you're directing.

• 35:21Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's a different thing. It's a, for me, it's, I think of being reactive. It's just being reactive to what you're seeing and to figuring out a way to, you know, communicate with whoever you're working with to get to a place that you, you know, are clear on what it is you want it to be. And with an actor, you have to see what they're doing and go from there. And I am just nothing but more impressed with the skill of acting, you know, the craft of acting than watching the actors on Severance with, watching them do what they do. Because I'm so grateful every second that I'm not having to be in front of the camera trying to do that, because it's hard. And also grateful to be an audience, to, you know, see what they're doing.

• 36:03Speaker 05

  And then to be able to encourage and like, maybe, you know, send them in one direction or the other, but also sometimes not do anything. So it's kind of just reacting to what you're seeing and being in the moment with it.

• 36:15Josh Horowitz?

  It also must be thrilling to see, like, you know, prior to Severance, I did not know Tramell's work or Britt's work, and now to see folks like this acknowledged.

• 36:22Speaker 05

  It's, yeah, it's so great. And they're, you know, they're such good actors and they've been good for a long time. I think it's really interesting how, like, sometimes it's a role that an actor finds.

• 36:32Speaker 03

  I'd worked with Britt years ago on a TV show, and she was so funny and so good. And Jay Bearishel had worked with her on something also. And it's so funny, because it wasn't until Severance, I was always like, why is she not more famous? Like, why is she not more, like, appreciated? And then, yeah, it takes the right things sometimes.

• 36:47Speaker 05

  I mean, I think that's the thing. It's just like, sometimes it's just the marriage of the actor and the role and the moment in time or the show. And it's been really fun to watch Tramell's, you know, incredible rise. He's so talented and he's such a great actor to work with and he takes the work so seriously. He's not Jewish.

• 37:06Speaker 03

  He's not Jewish!

• 37:08Speaker 05

  He isn't. So...

• 37:11Josh Horowitz?

  Tillman, Tillman.

• 37:15Josh Horowitz?

  Um, so before Severance, we didn't know, we didn't know, a lot of us didn't know Tramell was such a tremendous actor before the studio. We had no idea that Martin Scorsese was such a talented actor. Actually, we did. We knew he was a good actor.

• 37:28Speaker 03

  He's in Taxi Drive. He pops up in some-

• 37:30Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, he's great, actually.

• 37:31Speaker 03

  In Dreams, the Cursa movie, right?

• 37:34Josh Horowitz?

  That's right.

• 37:34Speaker 03

  As Vincent Van Gogh.

• 37:35Josh Horowitz?

  Do you get a fruit basket after the nomination? His first acting nomination for an Emmy.

• 37:40Speaker 03

  Oh, no, nothing.

• 37:41Josh Horowitz?

  What?

• 37:44Speaker 03

  I don't expect a fruit basket from Martin Scorsese.

• 37:49Speaker 03

  Are you kidding me?

• 37:54Speaker 03

  I owe that man a lot. That guy, and that guy fucking truckloads of fruit. Like, he really gave us a gift. At the end of his shooting day, I said to him, I was like, I genuinely feel like you gave me a huge gift that I in no way deserved from you, that you in no way had to give me. And I genuinely feel that way. So I don't, I don't, I don't expect anything from Martin Scorsese beyond what he's given me.

• 38:19Josh Horowitz?

  I would imagine, like, getting through that day, you can, you can now probably direct any human being and not have a panic attack. If you can get through directing Martin Scorsese, it's gonna be okay.

• 38:29Speaker 03

  It was probably one of the scare, yeah, more intimidating things to do. Uh, yeah, I didn't, um, sleep much that night. Uh, and then I was driving to work that morning and my mom called and I said, I'm about to have to direct Martin Scorsese. And she said, "Oh, my God, that must be terrible."

• 38:47Speaker 03

  "What if he doesn't like what you tell him?"

• 38:51Speaker 03

  I was like, "Yeah, that's, that's what I'm worried about." "You should be. That must be scary."

• 39:00Speaker 03

  We shoot the whole show with one camera and it's one take. And that, it was like, it was like the first week of shooting, basically. And so, we were still sort of figuring out the process on our feet a little bit. And so that day, I was, I was honestly so worried, I would show up on set and he would be like, "Where's the second camera?" That I hired a second camera crew.

• 39:25Speaker 03

  And, and we were shooting at the Roosevelt Hotel and I just like literally told them, like, "You're gonna be sitting in this hotel room. If that phone rings, come to the room we're shooting in. Act like you were supposed to be here this whole time." And it is so stupid in retrospect because like instead what happened is he showed up on set and instantly had, I'd never, I'd literally never met him before he showed up on the set of our TV show. We didn't talk to him once. We sent the script and we heard back from his manager. He loves it. He'll be there. We were like, okay. Part of me was like, he's not gonna fucking be there.

• 40:02Josh Horowitz?

  Did you, were you like worried he'd know his lines because of the wonders?

• 40:06Speaker 03

  I worried he wouldn't know his lines. Yeah, I was worried about all that. I would worry he would just be like, you shoot comedy with two cameras. That was like my main fear. He was just gonna like reject.

• 40:15Josh Horowitz?

  The whole premise of your show.

• 40:17Speaker 03

  That's what we were doing. That was my real fear. And so he showed up on set and me and Evan, you know, we go to him and we're like, just so you know, we kind of have this thing we're trying to do where we do every scene in one shot with one camera. And he's like, oh yeah, it's like French New Wave. You know, they never cut. They hated editing. They often had one camera and no access to an editor. So they would shoot entire scenes and we're like, okay, you get what we're talking about. You're Martin Scorsese. We don't have to explain anything to you. You get all of this. He's like, yeah, I get it. I get it. And then he just fucking did it. It was amazing. And it was so funny. And I couldn't believe it. It was, it was incredible. And those men got paid to sit in a hotel room all day.

• 41:01Josh Horowitz?

  Everybody wins.

• 41:02Speaker 03

  It was the actual camera crew from, I was like, can we get the people who worked on Killers of a Flower Moon?

• 41:11Speaker 03

  So like if I'm at the doghouse, I bring out like familiar faces like, ah. So it was them. They were just sitting in a room all day. Yep.

• 41:22Josh Horowitz?

  Are there, look, Ben, you've, you've, you've directed some amazing people. You've acted with some amazing people. I mean, it's one thing to like, you know, direct Tom Cruise as Les Grossman, but it's another to like, even before then, like act with him as his stunt double and do Tom Cruise's laugh six inches from Tom Cruise's face.

• 41:42Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 41:42Josh Horowitz?

  Was that scary?

• 41:44Speaker 05

  That was, um, I'm trying to remember. It was a long time ago. It was like 26 years ago.

• 41:49Josh Horowitz?

  I remember. We all remember.

• 41:50Speaker 05

  Um, I, I'm trying to remember what I remem-- yeah, no, it was, I loved that little piece. It was so weird. Um, we didn't really know each other. I'd met him once before and yeah, we, I showed up. I was actually on my honeymoon and we came back a couple of days early to do it. Because we were on this island, it was raining in, uh, off the coast of Australia and we're, and anyway, we're still married. It's okay. But, um, but, uh, yeah, so we left early to do it. It's like, yeah, this sounds like fun, like time to do this thing with Tom Cruise. And we just started, yeah, John Woo was there and it was, um, I remember just like we're sitting in the chairs and yeah, just kinda like, we just,

• 42:32Speaker 05

  it was just like, it was happening in the moment and then he was laughing and I started laughing, then he started laughing more and then I started laughing more. And, you know, he was totally open to it. He was open to it.

• 42:44Josh Horowitz?

  He seemed totally.

• 42:45Speaker 05

  Amazing.

• 42:46Speaker 03

  You also did a great bit where you pitched Titanic 2 to James Cameron.

• 42:49Speaker 05

  Yes. Yeah, yeah, with Vince.

• 42:51Josh Horowitz?

  You and Vince Vaughn, yeah, of course.

• 42:53Speaker 05

  Yeah, that was more scary.

• 42:54Speaker 03

  I was gonna say, honestly, I was gonna say like, there's no director scarier than James Cameron, I think.

• 42:59Speaker 05

  The most intimidating, for sure.

• 43:01Speaker 03

  Scariest guy, very tall, too.

• 43:02Josh Horowitz?

  Ever, uh, ever been up for a James Cameron movie? When's the last time either of you had to audition? It's probably been a long time for you guys. Do you remember it?

• 43:10Speaker 05

  I mean, thankfully, I, yeah, cause I, I would not get most of the roles that I played if I had to audition for something. Cause I'm not great at auditioning.

• 43:20Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 43:20Speaker 05

  Um, I'm trying to remember. I mean, I, I screen tested for, uh, a movie once. Yeah.

• 43:29Speaker 05

  But I didn't get it.

• 43:30Josh Horowitz?

  I feel like you self-censored halfway through that story.

• 43:32Speaker 05

  I was thinking like, oh, do I wanna see this clip to, um... But yeah, no, like one, a movie that I didn't get with like a famous director and yeah.

• 43:42Josh Horowitz?

  Well, now, now we can figure out what it is.

• 43:46Speaker 05

  But um, yeah, when was the last thing you auditioned for?

• 43:50Speaker 03

  I auditioned for the, the Steve Jobs movie I auditioned for.

• 43:54Speaker 05

  By the way, I think that's great. Like, by the way, if someone said, would you audition for this movie tomorrow with Chris Nolan? I'd be like, okay, yeah, I'll do it.

• 44:03Speaker 03

  Oh, I was thrilled to audition. It like took the pressure off me.

• 44:06Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 44:06Speaker 03

  I was like, they know what I'm capable of.

• 44:08Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 44:09Speaker 03

  They don't like it. This is Danny Boyle's fucking fault.

• 44:12Speaker 05

  Yeah, like, let's get it all out on the table.

• 44:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 44:15Speaker 05

  I think it's like you have to have, like, it's, it's like the fear and all that, like, that's important. And like the willingness to do it is because you want to, you know, be a part of this thing if it's right. If an audition can really be sort of like figuring out, does this feel right for, for us?

• 44:30Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. And I've had a few times over the years where we've been making comedic films and asked big actors to come in. And because we're also like, you should see if you like how we do this.

• 44:40Speaker 05

  Right.

• 44:40Speaker 03

  Like, you might just get here and be like, oh, I don't want to like stand here and fucking make shit up all day. Like that, you might hate this process. You know what I mean? And so I've actually been amazed at what great actors are, are happy to come in and, and do that. Because they understand like, it's not just us seeing if we like them, it's them seeing if they like us.

• 45:01Speaker 05

  Yeah. And as a director, I, I so appreciate it when an actor, any actor comes in.

• 45:06Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 45:07Speaker 05

  Because it just helps so much to be able to.

• 45:09Josh Horowitz?

  Visualize what it's.

• 45:10Speaker 05

  And also to be able to talk to them and maybe you do it a couple of times and you see how that feels and, and just the interaction in person, by the way. Because that's the other thing, like now it's all over, um, you know,

• 45:21Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 45:21Speaker 05

  self tapes and zooms and it's really, really hard. I, I miss those days when people come into the room.

• 45:33Speaker 00

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• 46:36Josh Horowitz?

  Do either of you, I mean, obviously the reception to both of these shows is phenomenal. Does it make you want to read reviews again? I know you stopped reading reviews a long time ago. You told me once.

• 46:46Speaker 05

  Yeah, because you know what the reviews are. You know what I mean? Somebody's gonna, like, when you wake up in the morning, you get the text, "Fuck the New York Times." I'm like, alright.

• 46:55Speaker 03

  Fuck them because they like it so much.

• 46:57Speaker 05

  I know what the New York Times review was. And it's just, it's impossible not to know. And the good ones for me, it's like, it's never, "Oh no, you didn't quite get it," you know? And then you have to, it's really, you do, it's hard. I mean, it's hard. Sometimes, somebody says, "Hey, read a thing that somebody said or wrote." Like, I will do that sometimes. But no, I do not wish to delve in. I do engage with people on Twitter about the show, and that's more fun for me. But it's, it's less like a, you know, specific, sort of like a, someone who's like, a critic or something like that. It's more like just people back and forth.

• 47:31Josh Horowitz?

  Do you have a favorite fan theory, obsessive thing that you, a detail that you didn't even intend to be a detail in Severance?

• 47:39Speaker 05

  I don't. I mean, I think it's so interesting how much people have found within it. I think it's really fun to see how people discover and notice things that we did do intentionally. But then there's so many things that are not intentional that people see. But then kind of makes sense, too, which is really cool.

• 47:59Speaker 03

  Maybe we did do that.

• 48:01Speaker 05

  Exactly. Maybe we're like, we're really good? No, it's like, interesting. You just see like, oh, you can find these parallels and that's really cool. But I just appreciate when people see the things that we're like, we've been working on.

• 48:16Josh Horowitz?

  And backtracking, your relationship with criticism, is it helpful at all for you to read what critics think of what you do, or not really?

• 48:25Speaker 03

  It depends on the thing. If it's good, it helps my ego intensely, and if it's bad, it damages it a lot.

• 48:31Josh Horowitz?

  That makes sense. No, ask a stupid question.

• 48:34Speaker 03

  I wish. I mean, yeah, I like, I'd like to know the consensus. I like to know, as me and my friends say, live by the tomato, die by the tomato.

• 48:44Speaker 03

  But I think.

• 48:45Speaker 05

  Exactly. Who needs to read reviews, seriously, when you have rotten tomatoes? It's like, that's the unfortunate thing.

• 48:51Speaker 03

  Just please give me the red one.

• 48:52Speaker 05

  I know.

• 48:53Speaker 03

  Just want the red one.

• 48:54Speaker 05

  Don't want to be green.

• 48:55Speaker 03

  No, what, the green one's so like, ah, like, there's something so aggressive about it, I feel like. It could just be a red one with like a frowny face on it or something like that. A paler red one. The green splat is a lot. But yeah, I, I, I liked, but I don't really delve in. I like to know the consensus, and every once in a while, someone else will be like, this one's really nice. Maybe you should read this one. Or, or like Ben said, one will be like, maybe don't read The Atlantic today.

• 49:23Speaker 03

  And I was like, I never do.

• 49:27Josh Horowitz?

  The good news is there's gonna be more of both of your respective shows. You're both, I think, working on the next seasons, respectively.

• 49:38Josh Horowitz?

  So Ben, I know you've talked about, look, I mean, strikes, COVID, etc. Kind of slowed the process of getting the second season out there. Is the intent, I mean, is there a timeline for the next season? What's your goal?

• 49:52Speaker 05

  My goal is to

• 49:55Speaker 05

  stretch it out as long as humanly possible.

• 49:58Speaker 03

  You want to grow old with these characters?

• 50:00Speaker 05

  It could be like, to see how long we can wait till the audience might have forgotten about the show.

• 50:08Speaker 05

  That's, no, I mean, it's so, yeah, trying, trying.

• 50:12Josh Horowitz?

  Could you do the next two seasons back to back? Just get more bang for our buck?

• 50:16Speaker 05

  I like that idea. I like that idea. Look, we're, you know, all things are on the table. Okay?

• 50:26Speaker 05

  Anything is possible. No. No, it's just, yeah, no, no, those are things we're thinking about. And I swear to you, we're working as hard as we can. I swear. I'm, I am aware of-

• 50:38Speaker 03

  Leave him alone, Josh.

• 50:41Speaker 03

  Trying!

• 50:41Josh Horowitz?

  I get it. We're here for you. We'll wait. We're good.

• 50:46Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 50:48Josh Horowitz?

  You've unfortunately set the bar very high for yourself in terms of cameos, in terms of these celebrities. When you get Scorsese, etc. What, where are you at in terms of, because I know these are very, it's not a slot any celebrity into a script kind of thing. You're writing to particular people.

• 51:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 51:04Josh Horowitz?

  So what has that process been like this season in terms of like, meeting the bar you set in season one?

• 51:09Speaker 03

  Oh, it's quite hard, Josh.

• 51:14Speaker 03

  I thought it maybe would be much easier now. I don't think it is, honestly. Might be harder than it was the first season. I think the promise of our show hypothetically was more alluring than our real show, maybe. But, uh, no, like, it is very nice in that we have had a lot of people who are fans of the show and coming to us and saying that they would be willing to be a part of it, which is, is great. But the, the truth is, yeah, like, the way we write the episodes is like- We sort of come up with like a very specific joke that very few people could could actually do, you know, and like with with with Martin Scorsese was like, it needs to be a director who you believe would be making a $250 million Jonestown movie, who you believe is someone I would be bending over backwards to work with, you know, who you believe would kind

• 51:59Speaker 03

  of have casting approval and would maybe want like an unconventional choice as the lead like, and there's really not many people who fit that bill. Like you don't necessarily buy Spielberg would make a Jonestown movie, for example, like it's like a pretty small amount of people that would do that. And you have to believe they would call it Kool-Aid. And so, so it, so it's quite hard. And in this season, yes, we are, we are writing right now and the exact same thing is happening. We're like, I mean, I'm currently working on an episode where if one person says no, we have to throw away the entire episode idea and start from scratch and write an entirely new episode, which is not the smartest way to make a television show, if I'm being very honest, but it's the only, it's the only

• 52:40Speaker 03

  thing we know how to do at this point. So, you know, they're only like 35 pages, you just.

• 52:46Josh Horowitz?

  Is there a better chance of Vin Diesel being in the studio or you being in a Fast and Furious movie?

• 52:52Speaker 03

  Oh, God, I think, wow, I would prefer to be in a Fast and Furious movie. I don't know. Take that as you will. I just, that, that to me is a big opportunity.

• 53:05Josh Horowitz?

  I want both to happen. Okay, I'm greedy that way.

• 53:07Speaker 03

  Not mutually exclusive.

• 53:08Josh Horowitz?

  No, of course not. Then, you know, we would, we talked about kind of like pivoting to Danamora and directing and Severance in recent years, but you, you know, you're, you're acting more, you're about to start production on the new Focker's film.

• 53:21Speaker 05

  Yes, Focker-in-law. Yeah. All right. Yeah, we start on Monday.

• 53:28Josh Horowitz?

  Is, uh...

• 53:29Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 53:31Josh Horowitz?

  The gang's all back and?

• 53:33Speaker 05

  Well, the gang, the, the, the, um, there's, there's Jack Burns and Deena Burns, but my Focker parents at this point aren't back, but they're, um...

• 53:46Speaker 05

  But there's a new, my son, I have a son, I don't know, I can't, I don't think I can say anything.

• 53:51Josh Horowitz?

  Well, we can say, I mean, it's, it's

• 53:53Speaker 05

  What can I say?

• 53:54Josh Horowitz?

  That Skylar is in it.

• 53:55Speaker 05

  Oh, Skylar Jazondo is in it, playing my son.

• 53:58Josh Horowitz?

  And we can say Ariana Grande.

• 53:59Speaker 05

  Ariana Grande is in it, yes.

• 54:02Josh Horowitz?

  Has Ariana Grande and Robert De Niro broken bread?

• 54:04Speaker 05

  Um, yes, we, we have all broken bread. Yeah, we've been, we've

• 54:10Josh Horowitz?

  Breaking bread a lot.

• 54:11Speaker 05

  We're

• 54:11Josh Horowitz?

  Breaking it.

• 54:12Speaker 05

  We're breaking all sorts of things.

• 54:14Josh Horowitz?

  (laughing)

• 54:15Speaker 05

  We're having fun. I, yeah, no, she's amazing and, yeah, the movie's called Focker Law and I don't wanna, I don't know how much else I should say it.

• 54:22Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, okay, it's happening.

• 54:23Speaker 05

  Yeah, but no, very excited about it and it's been a long time and, you know, any chance to work with, uh, Robert De Niro is, I will take.

• 54:31Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, and the reports of the film comedy being dead are, are, are not true.

• 54:36Speaker 05

  Well, I mean, I hope, you know, I'm excited, this is a theatrical release, I feel like we need more theatrical comedies.

• 54:42Josh Horowitz?

  Naked Gun did well, so we got that.

• 54:44Speaker 05

  Yeah, I just heard, you know, I heard Jonah Hill is doing

• 54:48Josh Horowitz?

  Jonah's making a movie with Whig?

• 54:49Speaker 05

  Yeah, like a big comedy, I, you know, I'm all for it, so yeah, hopefully this will be one of those.

• 54:55Josh Horowitz?

  A couple, a couple of random things for you guys, what's the, what's the line from your career that you hear most out in the streets generally? Is there one that just recurs over and over again?

• 55:06Speaker 03

  I don't really have one.

• 55:07Josh Horowitz?

  Really?

• 55:08Speaker 03

  No, people just wanna smoke weed with me.

• 55:10Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, too.

• 55:10Speaker 03

  (laughing)

• 55:12Josh Horowitz?

  Do you have rules about that? Do you like, what's your?

• 55:14Speaker 03

  I usually don't, and like, like

• 55:19Speaker 03

  if it seems like it'll really be special for the person, sometimes I will.

• 55:24Josh Horowitz?

  (laughing)

• 55:26Speaker 05

  They just come up to you like on the screen?

• 55:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, I've had moments where I'm like, this, this'll, this is a, this is a big moment for this person.

• 55:33Josh Horowitz?

  (laughing)

• 55:35Speaker 03

  Least I could do is take a couple hits with them.

• 55:38Speaker 05

  That's awesome. That's awesome.

• 55:41Josh Horowitz?

  Uh, you don't get that.

• 55:42Speaker 05

  No, I get, no, I get fucker. A lot. Yo, fucker. Which I sometimes respond to, but only for a very special person who I want to make happen.

• 55:54Josh Horowitz?

  It's a strange thing to hear not at Starbucks, just out of nowhere, from across the way.

• 55:58Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah. Um, but I think that should start to die down after the next movie. No.

• 56:05Speaker 05

  Yeah, no, I, I, I mean, I don't know. Yeah, I get that. Um, there's Zoolander stuff. Well, you know, yeah.

• 56:13Speaker 05

  I, every once in a while.

• 56:16Josh Horowitz?

  That's gotta be a daily thing. You don't, you don't get, uh,

• 56:19Speaker 05

  What?

• 56:19Josh Horowitz?

  Zoolander every day? That's not a daily occurrence?

• 56:21Speaker 05

  I do get a lot of requests for blue steel.

• 56:24Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 56:24Speaker 05

  From people.

• 56:25Josh Horowitz?

  Similar to his request to smoke.

• 56:27Speaker 05

  Exactly, exactly.

• 56:28Speaker 03

  Do it for special people.

• 56:29Speaker 05

  I, I'm pretty easy on blue steel. If somebody like says, hey, do a picture, do a blue steel, I will, I will shoot.

• 56:35Josh Horowitz?

  What if 400 people ask for blue steel in an audience?

• 56:38Speaker 05

  Yeah, of course. Of course. Um, what, right now?

• 56:43Josh Horowitz?

  We're here.

• 56:43Speaker 05

  Okay. You ready?

• 56:49Speaker 05

  This might be Magnum.

• 57:02Speaker 05

  Thank you. Thank you.

• 57:04Josh Horowitz?

  He's still got it. He's got it.

• 57:06Speaker 03

  Now I'm gonna smoke weed with everybody.

• 57:10Speaker 05

  I'll smoke with you. Come on, let's do it.

• 57:14Josh Horowitz?

  Everybody line up. 400 people would say.

• 57:18Speaker 03

  Take COVID tests.

• 57:23Josh Horowitz?

  Oh my gosh. Okay, we're gonna end with this. We're gonna do the Happy Second Fuse Profoundly Random Questions, as if my questions haven't, haven't been random enough already. Uh, are you gentlemen dogs or cat people?

• 57:34Speaker 05

  Dog.

• 57:35Speaker 03

  Dog, big time. Big time, dog.

• 57:39Speaker 05

  And I like cats, dude.

• 57:40Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 57:41Josh Horowitz?

  But you're anti-cat.

• 57:42Speaker 03

  I'm not anti. I'm like, you know, I'm not gonna fuck with your cat if you have one.

• 57:48Speaker 03

  I don't like it. I'm not gonna necessarily try to form a bond with it, yeah.

• 57:51Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. It's good to know. Okay. What do you collect? Do either of you collect anything?

• 57:59Speaker 05

  Props from Star Trek, the original Star Trek.

• 58:01Speaker 03

  Really?

• 58:02Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 58:02Speaker 03

  Oh, that's awesome.

• 58:03Josh Horowitz?

  What's the prize possession? You got a Gorn head? What do you got?

• 58:06Speaker 05

  I have a Gorn head. I have Kirk's tunic from the Enemy Within episode.

• 58:12Speaker 03

  Do you have a tribble?

• 58:13Speaker 05

  I don't have a tribble.

• 58:14Speaker 03

  Ooh.

• 58:15Speaker 05

  No. I have two pairs of Spock's ears.

• 58:18Josh Horowitz?

  So four ears, all in all, two?

• 58:19Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 58:20Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, okay.

• 58:20Speaker 05

  And one donated to me directly by Leonard Nimoy, which was my prize possession. Yeah. That's... And I have one of the intercoms from the Enterprise. Yeah, just got that. Yeah.

• 58:32Josh Horowitz?

  Are these all in like one room that you go to every night and kind of like...

• 58:35Speaker 05

  I do have them in a display case. Yeah. I do. I mean, there's... Yeah, it's incredible. Yeah.

• 58:41Speaker 03

  The design of that stuff's amazing.

• 58:43Josh Horowitz?

  What do you collect, Seth?

• 58:45Speaker 03

  Uh, what do I collect? I have a lot of like, I collect a lot of ceramics. I do pottery. And so I collect pottery as well. And, um, uh, yeah, you don't have to clap for...

• 58:57Josh Horowitz?

  Clap for pottery?

• 58:59Speaker 03

  That was so weird. Yeah, great.

• 59:02Speaker 05

  No, I think it was they like your pottery.

• 59:04Speaker 03

  Oh, thank you. I thought you were clapping for the idea.

• 59:06Speaker 05

  It wasn't that you do pottery. They appreciate your actual...

• 59:08Speaker 03

  I apologize.

• 59:10Josh Horowitz?

  There's our 400 artisans in the house.

• 59:13Speaker 03

  Weird. I saw this lady sort of like, are we like, are we, we're clapping for his pottery collection? Is that what's happening?

• 59:22Speaker 03

  Yeah. So I trade with other ceramics people who do pottery, things like that. Uh, yeah, I have a pretty big ceramics collection. And thank you for appreciating it.

• 59:33Josh Horowitz?

  Do either of you have a favorite video game of all time?

• 59:37Speaker 03

  Ooh, that's a... Maybe like, I mean, I probably spent the most time playing GoldenEye, which is a Nintendo 64 game.

• 59:45Speaker 05

  Uh, Donkey Kong.

• 59:47Speaker 03

  Hey.

• 59:48Speaker 05

  Great.

• 59:48Speaker 03

  I am Donkey Kong.

• 59:52Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, you are? Oh, my God.

• 59:53Speaker 03

  I am Donkey Kong.

• 59:54Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, shit. This must be big for you. Ben, are you okay?

• 59:57Speaker 03

  This must be crazy.

• 59:57Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, my God. Can I get high with you?

• 1:00:00Speaker 03

  Must be freaking out now.

• 1:00:06Josh Horowitz?

  Oh my god. This is the Dakota Johnson memorial question. She asked me this once. Uh, would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one bee in your butt?

• 1:00:15Speaker 03

  Ooh.

• 1:00:20Speaker 03

  I'd go with the butt bee.

• 1:00:25Josh Horowitz?

  Ben's giving the serious thought.

• 1:00:26Speaker 05

  Definitely butt.

• 1:00:27Josh Horowitz?

  Butt, butt, yeah.

• 1:00:28Speaker 03

  Butt bee.

• 1:00:30Josh Horowitz?

  Uh, what's the wallpaper on your phone?

• 1:00:33Speaker 05

  Oh, it's a picture I took in Newfoundland a couple of years ago.

• 1:00:39Speaker 03

  It's sort of like a generic. I literally think it's like a rug I saw once. And I took the picture of it and like, and I liked the design of it. And so it's that, it's some rug. I couldn't for a million dollars tell you where, where I saw it.

• 1:00:52Speaker 05

  You took a picture of the rug?

• 1:00:53Speaker 03

  I took a picture of the rug.

• 1:00:54Speaker 05

  Oh, you're like, that's cool.

• 1:00:55Speaker 03

  My phone background, yeah. And it's been that for like 10 years or something like that.

• 1:01:00Speaker 05

  Did you actually want to buy the rug?

• 1:01:01Speaker 03

  I don't, I know. I didn't look into it beyond that.

• 1:01:04Speaker 05

  Was it in a rug store or on the floor?

• 1:01:06Speaker 03

  I think it was maybe in like a hotel or something like that.

• 1:01:09Speaker 05

  Okay, yeah.

• 1:01:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, maybe like a hotel lobby.

• 1:01:10Speaker 05

  And were you taking it to be wallpaper or?

• 1:01:12Speaker 03

  I wanted to be my phone wallpaper.

• 1:01:14Speaker 05

  Okay. Not because, oh, I want a rug like that.

• 1:01:16Speaker 03

  No, I was like, that'll look good as the background of my phone.

• 1:01:19Speaker 05

  Not, I don't need it as a rug.

• 1:01:20Speaker 03

  For the next 10 years.

• 1:01:21Josh Horowitz?

  I think we're good on rug content, guys. Thank you, though.

• 1:01:25Speaker 05

  I was curious.

• 1:01:26Josh Horowitz?

  Um, last actor either of you were mistaken for? Do you ever get mistaken?

• 1:01:30Speaker 05

  Adam Sandler.

• 1:01:31Speaker 03

  Really? That's anti-Semitic.

• 1:01:34Speaker 05

  Hundred percent.

• 1:01:35Speaker 03

  That's purely anti-Semitic.

• 1:01:36Speaker 05

  Adam and I get this all the time. It's just a running thing that people, I will videotape somebody coming to me. Oh my god, Adam Sandler, I love you so much. I'll like, they go on and on. And I usually don't correct them. And I say, thank you. And then I just send the video to Adam. And he'll do the same thing with me, too.

• 1:01:54Josh Horowitz?

  Seth, do you ever get mistaken for anybody?

• 1:01:57Speaker 03

  Uh, I get mistaken for Jonah quite a bit. And I'm sure he, I, uh, Zach Galifianakis sometimes.

• 1:02:04Speaker 03

  I've had people be like really mad that I'm like, I'm not in The Hangover. And they're like, you're in the fucking Hangover. Swear to you. Don't know how to tell you this. I'm not in The Hangover. I wish I wasn't. I would be happy to be in The Hangover. I'm not in it.

• 1:02:19Speaker 05

  Yeah, also, when I correct people and I tell them I'm not Adam Sandler, they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever. Because I don't think they think I'm Adam Sandler. They just see me and they're saying Adam Sandler.

• 1:02:26Speaker 03

  Jew face.

• 1:02:29Speaker 05

  Whereas it's like, it's not like I, like, all of a sudden, like, they're like, oh, I didn't mean you. Do you know what I mean?

• 1:02:35Speaker 03

  They don't care. They know you're someone.

• 1:02:37Josh Horowitz?

  Where's that beep again? Where's the Jew beep?

• 1:02:40Speaker 05

  Disprove that theory.

• 1:02:42Josh Horowitz?

  Worst noted director has ever given you?

• 1:02:46Speaker 05

  Oh, I remember asking a director to do another take. We'd done two takes and like, say, hey, can we do another take? And he said, why? I was like, oh, just, I don't know, maybe it might be good or.

• 1:02:59Speaker 05

  I was so dispirited by it. I was just like, oh, forget it.

• 1:03:01Josh Horowitz?

  Never mind.

• 1:03:03Speaker 03

  You know, like, you're right. No reason.

• 1:03:06Josh Horowitz?

  Anything jump out at you?

• 1:03:07Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:03:12Speaker 03

  I remember when we were, and I was, we were young, Judd Apatow, we both know. If he didn't like what we were improvising, sometimes he would just yell boo from the other room.

• 1:03:21Speaker 05

  Oh, that's sweet.

• 1:03:23Speaker 03

  So you'd be in the middle of a riff, like me and Jonah, Jason Segel, we'd think it was really funny. And then you would hear boo.

• 1:03:31Speaker 03

  Because he doesn't like that riff.

• 1:03:33Josh Horowitz?

  I saw it all. Okay.

• 1:03:34Speaker 03

  Try a new riff.

• 1:03:35Speaker 05

  By the way, just, I had something to say this. This is the guy who thought of McLovin. That's so insane. To me, that's like, I was thinking about this the other night. That's like one of the most iconic movie scenes and moment, right? And it lives on.

• 1:03:50Josh Horowitz?

  And when he was like 16, he came up with McLovin.

• 1:03:52Speaker 05

  The guy who came up with it when he was 16.

• 1:03:53Speaker 03

  We wrote, we actually wrote that joke when we were like 13 years old. Which is so crazy. It's really weird.

• 1:04:00Speaker 05

  Who would think that when you're 13, there's going to be something in a movie that when you're growing up, that people are going to remember forever?

• 1:04:04Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. You'd never think that's going to happen.

• 1:04:06Josh Horowitz?

  Last, last minute, rapid fire. Actor who always makes you happy? First one that comes to mind.

• 1:04:12Speaker 05

  Happy?

• 1:04:12Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. You see them on screen, you're happy?

• 1:04:15Speaker 05

  Al Pacino.

• 1:04:16Speaker 03

  Adam Sandler is one of the guys I like watching.

• 1:04:19Josh Horowitz?

  Movie that makes you sad?

• 1:04:20Speaker 03

  Oh, I mean, Ben Stiller.

• 1:04:24Speaker 05

  Thank you. You can edit that.

• 1:04:25Speaker 03

  I get them confused.

• 1:04:30Speaker 05

  But you meant me, really, yeah. Sorry.

• 1:04:33Josh Horowitz?

  Movie that makes you sad.

• 1:04:34Speaker 05

  That makes me sad.

• 1:04:35Josh Horowitz?

  Brings you to tears.

• 1:04:36Speaker 05

  Oh my god, I hate these kind of speed round things. You answer yours first.

• 1:04:39Speaker 03

  Any dog dead movie. No dog dead movies. What's a big dog? Even the first John Wick is very sad.

• 1:04:45Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:04:46Speaker 03

  He kills those people, but it's still sad.

• 1:04:48Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah. Are you a Pixar sad person? Are you Terms of Endearment? I'm giving you suggestions.

• 1:04:53Speaker 05

  Oh yeah, Terms of Endearment.

• 1:04:54Josh Horowitz?

  That's a good one.

• 1:04:55Speaker 05

  Yeah, great. I'll think of it in about two hours and I'll let everybody know.

• 1:04:59Josh Horowitz?

  We'll be back here. And finally, a food that makes you confused. You don't get it. Why do people eat that?

• 1:05:06Speaker 03

  Whoa.

• 1:05:07Josh Horowitz?

  I know.

• 1:05:08Speaker 03

  Controversial.

• 1:05:08Speaker 05

  I mean, I could avocado, eggs.

• 1:05:11Josh Horowitz?

  Oh.

• 1:05:12Speaker 03

  Whoa.

• 1:05:15Josh Horowitz?

  And that's when Ben Stiller lost the audience.

• 1:05:17Speaker 05

  Sorry that I don't understand why people eat chicken, Emory. I'm so weird.

• 1:05:25Speaker 03

  I'm with you, egg people. I'm an egg person.

• 1:05:29Speaker 05

  By the way, I don't mind eggs in stuff. I just don't want to eat the actual.

• 1:05:32Speaker 03

  I'll eat an egg. I'll eat a fucking egg.

• 1:05:34Josh Horowitz?

  Really?

• 1:05:35Speaker 03

  I'll eat an egg with you on the street as we smoke weed together. You don't want to eat an egg while you're smoking weed, honestly. It is, it is gross.

• 1:05:44Josh Horowitz?

  Right. We can end there. That's a good place to end, I think. What do you think, guys?

• 1:05:48Speaker 03

  It epitomizes my outlook on life.

• 1:05:50Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. As if I need to remind you guys, Severance, the studio. It doesn't get better than that on television, on Apple TV+. Give it up for these two amazing creatives. Ben Stiller, Seth Rogen. Thanks for coming out, guys.

• 1:06:11Speaker 04

  And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't supposed to do this by Josh.

• 1:06:31Speaker 06

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