Jay Shetty on Love & Money: Make Relationships Work When One Earns More | (Awkward Therapy Session)

Lewis Howes welcomes his good friend Jay Shetty back to discuss love, relationships, and the often tricky subject of money. They dive deep into the complexities of financial responsibilities in dating, unraveling the intricate ways we assess value in men and women, while dissecting societal expectations, gender roles, and the power dynamics that influence our views on relationships. Lewis and Jay shed light on the essence of intentional living and the impact of our energy on attracting meaningful relationships. They offer invaluable insights into cultivating a peaceful and safe environment, building enduring connections, and creating a unified approach to financial conversations with your significant other. In this episode you will learnHow societal norms and personal beliefs influence financial decisions in dating and relationships. The importance of open communication about finances to establish fairness and respect in relationships. Insights into navigating financial dynamics in a relationship, including the consideration of prenuptial agreements. The impact of traditional gender roles on financial expectations and the importance of challenging these norms for healthier relationships. Strategies for couples to approach financial discussions in a way that strengthens their relationship. Buy Jay's book 8 Rules of Love: How to Find It, Keep It, and Let It Go for yourself and a friend! For more information go to www.lewishowes.com/1571For more Greatness text PODCAST to +1 (614) 350-3960Previous episodes of Lewis & Jay’s Awkward Therapy sessions:Can You Make Money & Still be Spiritual? – https://link.chtbl.com/1298-pod5 Relationship Mistakes You Msut Avoid to Find Deep Connection – https://link.chtbl.com/1322-pod Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  Hey my friend, thank you so much for being here. I wanted to ask you for a quick request before we get started with today's episode. Apple decided to shake things up a bit and you may no longer be following the School of Greatness, but luckily there's an easy fix. So really quick, if you can, double check for me that you're not missing out on greatness. Just go to your app on Apple Podcast and hit follow on the top right-hand corner of the School of Greatness show page on Apple Podcast. Once you click the follow button on the top right corner, you're all set to get updated with the latest in greatness here from the School of Greatness. And if you haven't already, make sure to leave a quick review while you're there. Your thoughts matter to me. I read all of the reviews and I'm so grateful that you're here. Thanks so much. Now let's jump into this episode.

• 0:40Jay Shetty?

  Because people haven't experienced love, they don't know how to notice and receive it when it arrives knocking on their doorstep.

• 0:49Lewis Howes?

  Conscious love.

• 0:50Jay Shetty?

  Conscious love, like because you've never received love without guilt or love without shame or conditioning.

• 0:57Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, or needing to achieve or do something, right?

• 1:00Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. And then now when you get it, when someone gives it to you, it goes over your head and you get scared by it.

• 1:07Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 1:30Jay Shetty?

  So here we are at another episode of Awkward Therapy. You guys loved it and me and Lewis love doing this together. We both come from different backgrounds, different walks of life, and we love to find topics that there's healthy debate over. There's a bit of controversy, maybe there's a bit of conflict. I love the feedback we got from the last one we did on polyamory and monogamy. If you've not heard that one, check it out. And we're back to do Awkward Therapy and we decided to call this Awkward Therapy because Sometimes we feel awkward doing it and we're both not therapists.

• 2:03Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're two human beings with mistakes and history, sharing practical wisdom.

• 2:09Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, and figuring things out together. Like, I think when I sit down with you, the reason why we started this is these are the conversations we have anyway.

• 2:16Lewis Howes?

  Behind the scenes, when people aren't, you know, watching us, we were like, ah, man, people would probably be fascinated with this. And I think we've done, what, four episodes now? And each one, people are just like, this is fascinating. More people need to talk about these things, so.

• 2:30Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely. And I feel like these are the conversations that people are having, but then we're scared of having them publicly. Or we're scared to say, this is what I feel, or this is what I think, because it kind of makes everyone awkward and uncomfortable.

• 2:42Lewis Howes?

  It is.

• 2:43Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, and so that's why it's awkward therapy.

• 2:45Lewis Howes?

  You might get pushed back on some of your opinions and things like that. So, you know, this is a, it's a fun time. I get excited every time.

• 2:51Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, me and Lewis last year pretty much managed to play pickleball together. We got into a really good run. And so what we do is we play pickleball, we eat, and then we have these conversations. So.

• 3:02Lewis Howes?

  It's an amazing time.

• 3:02Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it's a good time. All right. So let's dive in. So today's topic is love and money.

• 3:09Lewis Howes?

  I'm excited, man.

• 3:10Jay Shetty?

  There are so many things to dive into. We're gonna talk about everything from who should pay on the first date through to, should you sign a prenup? Should you?

• 3:20Lewis Howes?

  Shared expenses, living together, all that stuff.

• 3:23Jay Shetty?

  All of it. Where do we start? Who should pay on the first date?

• 3:28Lewis Howes?

  Man, well, I mean, you think in the, in the, in the past, when I was, when I was growing up, I mean, when I was like, I'm 40 now. And so 20, I guess 20 years ago, when I started dating, I didn't really have any money, but the girl didn't have any money either. And, but it was always thought like, okay, you have to take her out and you have to pay for it. That was the thought 20 years ago for me, right? It was like what my sisters told me, like, make sure you're a gentleman, make sure you show up, make sure you offer to pay for the hamburger, whatever you're going, that's a 21-year-old or something.

• 3:59Jay Shetty?

  Where are you going, Dunham's?

• 4:01Lewis Howes?

  I was living in St. Louis at the time, and there was a place called Steak and Shake. It's amazing. So, like a burger and a milkshake.

• 4:08Jay Shetty?

  The original Shake Shack.

• 4:09Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. And, and so that was the belief. But the more, in the last like five, six years, I feel like that's shifted some from what I've seen. At least on the internet culture, content on the internet where you see people saying. Now, I don't know if this is the same for everything in like middle America or around the world, but you see the extreme stuff online. And I see some women saying like, the man should always pay on the first date. And then I see other people saying, no, it should be fifty fifty. And I see others saying, you know, well, if you're just gonna be friends, then people pay separately, right? So, um, I think today that, this is tricky one. This is where it gets awkward. This is where it gets awkward. I'm already like, oh man, what are people gonna think and say?

• 4:53Lewis Howes?

  But I, if I'm answering this, that I would like to pay always on the first date if I was dating. Obviously, I'm engaged now, but I would always pay. And that's just coming from a place of, now also, I would only do it if I was choosing the place and I knew how much I was gonna spend beforehand. So if some girl was like, oh, I want you to take me to this really expensive place and pay for a three hundred dollar dinner. I'd be like, this is already a red flag, you know? Maybe this is not the right thing. But if someone offers, then I feel like, oh, this person has a thoughtfulness, is genuine, is caring. It's not a me versus them, they need to do something, I'm above this mentality.

• 5:38Lewis Howes?

  And so I think you wanna be aware of that. And when a woman is willing to offer, um, I think that's really generous. And it shows you who they are. And if a man doesn't wanna pay, it just gives you information and shows you who they are.

• 5:54Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 5:54Lewis Howes?

  And if that's the type of relationship you wanna enter, there's nothing right or wrong with it. It's just knowing where you're at.

• 6:00Jay Shetty?

  Yep.

• 6:01Lewis Howes?

  And so it's getting clear on what you want.

• 6:03Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 6:03Lewis Howes?

  I think what's changed for men and women is, uh, women have changed, I think, from what I've heard, what they want differently from what men want as well. And so it's just getting clear on what type of relationship do you want to enter while you're dating?

• 6:16Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 6:16Lewis Howes?

  And it's not necessarily a red flag in my mind, it's more of just information. Okay, is this the type of dynamic you want for a dating relationship? Because it's probably gonna lead into a longer term relationship, the same style of dynamic.

• 6:30Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 6:30Lewis Howes?

  Probably not gonna shift later.

• 6:32Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 6:32Lewis Howes?

  Unless you have those conversations. I don't know, what do you think? It's been what?

• 6:34Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, no.

• 6:35Lewis Howes?

  You've been married for what, ten years now?

• 6:36Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, but we've been together for ten, married for seven.

• 6:39Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 6:40Jay Shetty?

  But no, as I'm listening to you, I'm thinking about it, and, and there's a lot of stuff that came up for me, like... The first thing that came up is I've heard a lot of people saying, this is kind of what you were saying. I've heard a lot of people say that it's who asks the person out that should pay.

• 6:55Lewis Howes?

  And who should ask the person out?

• 6:57Jay Shetty?

  That's.

• 7:00Jay Shetty?

  But it's that idea, right?

• 7:01Lewis Howes?

  That makes sense. Yeah. If you ask someone out.

• 7:02Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. It's like what you said. You were like, if I ask someone out and I get to choose the place, then I'm going to offer to pay because I chose the place. Whereas if someone told you to choose the place, or if someone else chose the place and then wanted you to pay for it without you giving them that permission. But I think my take is, and by the way, I was the same as you. I remember as a student going to like Nando's and Pizza Express, which are very British, like, you know, spots. And you're just thinking like, how am I going to pay? Cause at that time, like to eat together was about thirty pounds.

• 7:31Lewis Howes?

  How am I going to get this money? Yeah.

• 7:33Jay Shetty?

  That's a lot as a student. You're thinking, how am I going to pay for this? And I remember I was being a tutor on the side. I was, you know, I was working while I was at university as well. And so that was helping me pay for dates. But I look back and think about how much money I wasted on dates. It was crazy. But there's one, I'm with you. I think that I, again, like you, have always opted to pay on dates. And I think I would always choose to do that. But by the way, I just want to add one thing. This is also not just about gender because you do that with me and I do that with you.

• 8:05Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 8:05Jay Shetty?

  So even when we're out on bro dates, you'll always offer to pay and I'll always offer to pay. And then we usually say, all right, if you get this one, I'll get the next one.

• 8:12Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 8:12Jay Shetty?

  And I think that's just who we are as people. I don't think that's because I'm trying to impress a woman or I was trying to, I think that's just how I was raised.

• 8:20Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 8:20Jay Shetty?

  And that doesn't come.

• 8:21Lewis Howes?

  Now, if we were, if we were twenty though, maybe we'd be like, hey, let's split this.

• 8:24Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 8:25Lewis Howes?

  Let's, or I would pay for my stuff because I order more than you and get a lot more food. And you'd probably pay for your stuff. You know, it's like, we'd probably be at a counter, we'd each pay separately type of thing. So it also depends on like how much money you have and what season of life you're in, I think as well.

• 8:39Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. There's one quote that, I don't know if this quote is still relevant today, but I'm interested to hear what we think about it. So I heard this quote that says, "A woman's loyalty is tested when the man has nothing."

• 8:53Jay Shetty?

  And a man's loyalty is tested when he has everything.

• 8:56Lewis Howes?

  That's true. I love that quote. Yeah. I think you saw that you see this with like Obama, the Obamas, right?

• 9:00Jay Shetty?

  I think it's either Obama and then I've seen it in like people put it with UFC of Conor McGregor. Cause his story was kind of like that, I think. Yeah, he had nothing when he started out.

• 9:10Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 9:11Jay Shetty?

  And I don't know whether the genders apply, but I think it's a fascinating thing.

• 9:14Lewis Howes?

  I think it's a powerful thing. And I think what you see a lot of this conversation around like, I don't know. I don't know why this is popping up, this kind of high value man, high value woman conversation.

• 9:25Jay Shetty?

  Let's talk about that, yeah.

• 9:26Lewis Howes?

  You see these, these different conversations online of women saying, well, I need a man that makes a hundred grand. And I need a man that's, I don't know, six feet tall or above. And I need a man.

• 9:36Jay Shetty?

  You're winning, man. Lewis, you're the man.

• 9:38Lewis Howes?

  And I need a man that's this age and I need a man that can take all the time off in the world and can travel and pay for five trips a year, anywhere I want to go. And it's like, there's not that many people that actually have that lifestyle. And can live up to that every day for the rest of their life. It's a big expectation to think that. So I think you got to understand where you're meeting someone at, at your season of life. And also, as you know, a relationship is about how much you give, not how much you expect someone else to give you, to make you happy constantly, but how much are you going to consistently show up and serve the relationship consistently? And if you just say, well, me being here is enough value.

• 10:21Lewis Howes?

  Me being around is a lot and they should just be happy. I just think that's not the best mindset to approach a healthy, conscious, long-term relationship. And so we just, we got to start thinking about not what can someone give me, but how can I contribute to the relationship? And how can I meet someone with shared values that thinks the same way? And maybe if they're 24, 25, they don't have as much to give financially. But they can give emotionally, spiritually. They can give me their time. They can show up and be creative with dates. And we have shared values. So we give each other that. We give each other less stress, less conflict. Like that's.

• 11:02Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 11:03Lewis Howes?

  Amazing gift to give less stress by having.

• 11:06Jay Shetty?

  Oh, my God. That's a big, yeah.

• 11:08Lewis Howes?

  Cause it's like, why, why, why, why be with someone who can pay for everything if all they create is stress and drama? Is that the relationship of your dreams? So we just got to be thinking about what we want. And for many years, I didn't think that way. I thought about who's going to give me the most pleasure, the most fun, who's going to have the best? Who am I going to sexually connect with the best? And I didn't think about the other things of peace, harmony, shared values. Who's going to be kind to me and my family? And do we have a similar vision? So I think we have to think about those things when we're entering a relationship.

• 11:42Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, definitely. And, and I love the conversation you brought about to like this high value man, high value woman. I think if I'm completely honest, I think there's obviously always historically been so much pressure on women. And how they approach relationships. And I think there's now a lot of that pressure on men of, I'm not six feet tall. I don't make a hundred K.

• 12:07Lewis Howes?

  I don't drive a Lambo.

• 12:08Jay Shetty?

  I don't drive a Lambo, like I don't have these things. And let's be honest, it's not the majority of women that are saying they want those things. Like it's, this is not like a big request. Like I'm looking over at Helena going like, Helena, are those things on your list?

• 12:25Jay Shetty?

  Oh, maybe they are, maybe they are.

• 12:27Lewis Howes?

  Millionaire, six feet. Yeah.

• 12:29Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, like multiple six figure income, six feet tall, drives a Lambo, like. Right, like those aren't, so I also think that, like you said, the internet makes certain things viral because people are having debates around them. And then a lot of men start looking at that as reality and start going, well, I can't live up to that. So either I'm going to pretend that I have those things and I'm going to find ways to do that. Or I'm going to get so busy trying to do things I hate and become someone I don't want to be in order to get some money. Just to be able to attract a woman like that.

• 13:03Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, to impress someone.

• 13:04Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, to impress someone.

• 13:05Lewis Howes?

  And impressing people with the wrong things.

• 13:07Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 13:08Lewis Howes?

  When we impress people with the wrong things, it usually turns out painful in the end.

• 13:12Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 13:13Lewis Howes?

  When we impress people with.

• 13:16Lewis Howes?

  Who we truly are.

• 13:17Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 13:18Lewis Howes?

  You know, our, our heart, our mindset, our generosity, the way we think, the way we connect, the way we're present with people, that's when we create more beauty in relationships.

• 13:29Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely. I remember I had, uh, I had someone that I was talking to and they were saying to me, they were like, you know what, I'm with this girl and she's just into designer clothes and designer bags and like she just, you know, wants me to get her stuff and you know, and, and I'm looking at him and it's really funny because he's dripping in Louis Vuitton. He's got the Louis Vuitton logo like tattooed all over his body, like on every item. And, and it was remarkable to me like how we lose that sense of self-awareness. I have a rule in my book, Eight Rules of Love, that says you attract what you use to impress. And so if you use your bling or your, you know, your whatever, whatever you're wearing to impress someone,

• 14:10Jay Shetty?

  that's what you're attracting. You're attracting someone who is with you for that thing.

• 14:15Lewis Howes?

  Who desires that.

• 14:16Jay Shetty?

  Who desires that thing. So if you're using your character and if you're using your qualities and if you're using your values, then that's what someone's going to be attracted to. And that's hard.

• 14:25Lewis Howes?

  It's really hard, especially in a world of social media and people building personal brands and starting side hustles and businesses. Sometimes they use things to build an audience, but that's may not be the right thing to build a relationship. And so we got to be careful about what we're putting out there.

• 14:40Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 14:41Lewis Howes?

  You know, whether it be one-to-one or in a, in a, in a, in a community space in person or online. We've got to be really careful what we put out there because you will be perceived as that thing.

• 14:53Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 14:54Lewis Howes?

  And it's one of the reasons why I think we connect so well because we're always trying to put out positivity. We're always trying to put out content of others. We're always trying to elevate voices, information, research to help people improve.

• 15:07Jay Shetty?

  Mm hmm.

• 15:07Lewis Howes?

  So we attract people in our lives that want to work with us, that are also into that mindset. Uh, we attract healthy relationships, friendships of people that think the same way. So.

• 15:19Jay Shetty?

  That's such a great point because when I moved to LA. And I remember you already lived here and you were part of the reason I remember you saying to me, Jay, she moved to L A. And that was such a big, that made it easier as well. I didn't know a lot of people when I moved here and one of the biggest things I always heard is everyone in L A is superficial. Everyone in L A is really fake. Everyone in L A is really this. And I haven't had that experience of L A. I'm not saying that doesn't exist. I'm saying that exists everywhere. But my experience has been because I'm almost a walking billboard of what I care about. Whether it's online or offline, I tend to find friendships that are only coming close to me for those things. And and that's spot on. And so I feel like whether it's where you live or where you travel or whatever it is.

• 16:04Jay Shetty?

  You've got to think about like, what is the billboard of my values?

• 16:08Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 16:08Jay Shetty?

  Like if if there was a tagline for who you are as a human being, like what are you broadcasting to the world? And if that's something you're not happy about, it's something you can change, right? If I look back, like I'm sure there's been times in my life where I was broadcasting a completely different message. And therefore I attracted different types of relationships. I think when I was a teen, I attracted a lot of people because I was trying to. And I couldn't afford anything, but I was trying to be the person who could wine and dine you at the fanciest restaurant, even though I couldn't afford it. I was the person who wanted to take you on the coolest dates so that you would think I was really cool, but I couldn't even afford it. And I was doing those things because I did think that that's what women wanted and then that would. So I've also done that.

• 16:51Lewis Howes?

  What do you think women actually want today?

• 16:53Jay Shetty?

  Oh, God, financially or just generally, you're saying?

• 16:56Lewis Howes?

  What do you think they want in a man?

• 17:00Lewis Howes?

  In a straight relationship, what do women really want? I see mixed signals sometimes of what they say they want, but then what they go after can be completely different.

• 17:10Jay Shetty?

  Well, I think that is the truth, that I think most people are confused about what they want. Because there's a mix of what your mom said and dad said.

• 17:18Lewis Howes?

  And their dysfunction.

• 17:19Jay Shetty?

  And their own.

• 17:20Lewis Howes?

  And what you've seen, yes.

• 17:22Jay Shetty?

  Exactly. So you've got that complexity. You've then got the complexity of what media said. So the Disney princess syndrome. That's a real thing. The Disney princess syndrome, you saw every. Disney princess chasing a prince, chasing a king, chasing a frog that would turn into a prince.

• 17:39Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, or a beast that would transform into a prince.

• 17:43Jay Shetty?

  You can change him.

• 17:44Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 17:44Jay Shetty?

  And you're chasing this love story that you were brainwashed to believe was what love looked like. So you've got your parents, you've got family and friends, you've got TV and media, you've got music videos. Now you've got your first relationships and they all are confusing you as to what should I look for?

• 18:03Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 18:04Jay Shetty?

  And I think that people haven't taken a moment to step back and say, what do I want? What do I want? Not what does my mom thinks good for me and what does Disney thinks good for me? And what does everyone else thinks good for me? What do I want?

• 18:17Lewis Howes?

  What do you think women really want today?

• 18:18Jay Shetty?

  I would, I would hope, I would hope, this is my hope. I don't think it's, I don't think I know because I guess it's, the answer is people are confused. And by the way, I think men are equally confused on what they want because.

• 18:29Lewis Howes?

  I, I mean, I know what I wanted for a long time. I wanted to have sexual connection. That's what, cause that's what I was desired and driven by. It wasn't always clear, but it was always like, oh, this person, I'm attracted to this person. I, I wanna be with that. You know, that's the way I thought about it in my twenties, right? It was like, okay. And that never worked out. There was fun, there was excitement, there was heightened emotions, there was dopamine hits like crazy. But it was a lot of chaos and a lot of stress. And I think when we tried to enter a relationship through sexual desire and not spiritual connection or value connection, you may have a lot of ups, but there'll also be a lot of downs.

• 19:13Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 19:14Lewis Howes?

  And I just, I experienced that over and over again, man.

• 19:17Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 19:17Lewis Howes?

  I think you got really lucky because you, you did that.

• 19:20Jay Shetty?

  I mean, no, I had that in my teen years, but it's just you're so young that that's the only way you can think.

• 19:25Lewis Howes?

  And that's how you learn too. You learn through like, oh, I tried this and it didn't work. I had a lot of pain and, and I tried it again. That didn't work either. It's like, I, I learned a lot longer than you did. So it took me a lot longer, but um.

• 19:36Jay Shetty?

  I, I would hope that people right now are looking for safety. I think feeling safe and what I mean by safety is.

• 19:46Jay Shetty?

  Low stress, high peace. When I think of a high value person, I think of a high peaceful person. Like, that's what I'm thinking about.

• 19:54Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 19:55Jay Shetty?

  Someone who has a sense of peace in who they are, what they're doing in life, and how they're going about it. Now, everyone has anxiety, so you're not gonna find someone who has no anxiety. That's, that's not realistic. I have anxiety.

• 20:07Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, no one's perfect.

• 20:08Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, no one's perfect. So this isn't like, let me go find the person who has no anxiety. But it's the idea that someone is striving for peace. So like, low stress, high peace, that's uh, safety. That's what safety means. I think.

• 20:20Lewis Howes?

  But people, people want safety, but they're addicted to drama. You know what I mean? They're addicted to drama and the highs and lows.

• 20:28Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, cuz safety is boring.

• 20:30Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 20:30Jay Shetty?

  If someone makes me feel safe, it's boring. It's like, well, what do we do together if they make me feel safe?

• 20:35Lewis Howes?

  I know.

• 20:36Jay Shetty?

  Oh, well, none of my friends think they're that interesting.

• 20:38Lewis Howes?

  I know.

• 20:39Jay Shetty?

  You know, because it doesn't have that, what you're saying, the highs and lows.

• 20:41Lewis Howes?

  I know, and I think when, that's just the, I just don't think that's, I mean, we, I witnessed this with my parents growing up, right? Just a lot of tension and stress and highs and lows. And when's the repair gonna happen? And when is, when are they gonna get back together in terms of like, one left the room and anxiousness or screaming? And it's just like, when you grow up in a family dynamic of that, I'm not sure exactly if that's what you grew up in, but I think I hear a lot of people saying they had challenges with their parents, right? In some different format. When you grow up in that, you want safety and peace, but you, you've never experienced it. So you don't know what it feels like.

• 21:16Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 21:16Lewis Howes?

  And you don't know how to create it. So you're almost anxious in trying to chase something or create something that you don't even know exists.

• 21:24Jay Shetty?

  Oh, so good.

• 21:25Lewis Howes?

  So you have to learn how to heal somehow and create safety within ourselves first, before you can create it in another relationship.

• 21:32Jay Shetty?

  I couldn't agree more, I couldn't agree more. I've, I've seen that again and again. I've realized that. Because people haven't experienced love, they don't know how to notice and receive it when it arrives knocking on their doorstep.

• 21:48Lewis Howes?

  Conscious love.

• 21:49Jay Shetty?

  Conscious love, like because you've never received love without guilt, or love without shame or conditioning.

• 21:56Lewis Howes?

  Or needing to achieve or do something, right?

• 21:59Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, and then now when you get it, when someone gives it to you, it goes over your head, and you get scared by it.

• 22:04Lewis Howes?

  Very.

• 22:05Jay Shetty?

  And I've seen that happen to people in my life, whether it's friends, family members, people I've worked with, where people get scared by love, or they doubt it, or they become cynical or skeptical of it, because they've never experienced it. And you're right, the only person challenged, you probably didn't get it from your parents. And so unless you're learning how to experience self-safety.

• 22:25Lewis Howes?

  That's it. And creating that safety first before looking for it in a relationship.

• 22:30Jay Shetty?

  Yes, yeah.

• 22:31Lewis Howes?

  Because if you don't feel safe, and you try to find a partner who is safe, like you're still not safe with you.

• 22:37Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 22:37Lewis Howes?

  You're gonna be anxious, you're gonna be avoidant, you're gonna be insecure. Are they gonna, are they gonna cheat on me? Are they gonna really show up for me like they say they do? If you don't have that safety, it's gonna be really hard to feel safe in another's presence, especially when you give them your heart. When you open yourself up, you won't feel safe because you aren't safe with yourself.

• 22:58Jay Shetty?

  I genuinely think that even the quest for wanting the six feet, hundred K is a quest for safety. There's a, there's a hidden belief that maybe you saw financial insecurity growing up.

• 23:12Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 23:13Jay Shetty?

  In your home.

• 23:13Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 23:14Jay Shetty?

  And so when you're saying you want to be with someone who makes a hundred K, it's actually just a plea of safety.

• 23:19Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 23:20Jay Shetty?

  When you're saying you want to be with someone who's strong and powerful, or whatever it may be, it's because maybe you felt unsafe growing up. And so sometimes our desires are completely linked to our pains and stresses and traumas. And so it's not that they're wrong, it's just that they're being verbalized in a different way. But the number one thing I would learn, I mean.

• 23:38Lewis Howes?

  But just because they, someone might make a hundred thousand dollars, doesn't mean they're gonna be emotionally safe.

• 23:42Jay Shetty?

  No, a hundred, a hundred percent.

• 23:43Lewis Howes?

  Spiritually safe, sexually safe. It doesn't mean that they're gonna be their word. Typically, if someone's driven to earn and make more, unless they have consciousness around it, they're gonna have certain values around money. Well, here, here's the thing, this. This point you just made, like if someone felt unsafe as a child because maybe they they had to, they got evicted a bunch, or they didn't, you know, their parents were always talking about, we don't have money, we don't have money. And they felt unsafe. They felt insecure around money to provide for things.

• 24:16Lewis Howes?

  If you're searching for a guy who has money to provide out of a lack, out of a fear, out of a pain, out of a worry. And they give that to you, what happens when they take it away? What happens if they give it to you conditionally? You're gonna feel anxious, scared, insecure, and in fear around money. You're not gonna feel safe still. So you're giving one man all the power to say, okay, I can provide because I make a hundred thousand dollars a year. You have to be, you know, susceptible to whatever that human being says. It's their way essentially. They're in more control then. There's a power dynamic then of, I don't have money because I don't feel safe or secure. This guy does, so he's gonna be able to provide and protect.

• 25:01Lewis Howes?

  What do you have to do so that this person wants to stay with you then?

• 25:05Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 25:05Lewis Howes?

  You're now, you know, there is a power dynamic, there is a control dynamic that I don't know you're gonna love long term. So you're entering a relationship out of insecurity, out of a lack of safety yourself. Now, I'm not saying, you know, if you can be with someone who has more money, cool, there can be more options, but it doesn't mean more harmony. It just means, okay, they have more money to do things with money.

• 25:30Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, that resonates. That resonates really strongly. Just to throw it out there, we've, we've done this through asking our teams, looking on social, bringing out themes that we think are buzzy right now. This one was, is there a difference in society? If a man says, I don't wanna make money, is that seen the same way as if a woman says, I don't wanna make money? Or is there a discrepancy there? And how do we view it?

• 25:56Lewis Howes?

  You start it off.

• 25:56Jay Shetty?

  I watched this really good movie recently, which I recommend people watch. Definitely trigger warning, it's, it's, you know, it's called Fair Play. And the movie's about, without giving too much away, the movie's about a couple who are romantically. Intimate, they have seemed to have a really strong, confident, happy relationship. But they work at the same place and no one knows that they're together.

• 26:21Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. So they're hiding their relationship.

• 26:23Jay Shetty?

  They're hiding their relationship.

• 26:24Lewis Howes?

  At their work environment.

• 26:24Jay Shetty?

  At their work environment. And they're both working at a finance firm and they do well for themselves. They're both smart.

• 26:30Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 26:31Jay Shetty?

  But then there comes a time where there's a promotion up for grabs.

• 26:35Lewis Howes?

  And they're both trying to get the same job.

• 26:37Jay Shetty?

  Trying to get the same job. And I won't give away the rest of the movie. Everyone should watch it. I think it's on Netflix and like it shows what it looks like to have this competition and envy and all of this in a relationship and how it affects not just the boardroom, but the bedroom and how it affects.

• 26:53Lewis Howes?

  The dynamics of everything.

• 26:55Jay Shetty?

  Dynamics of family and everything. And so that movie to me was a really strong narrative around gender roles and how much money people make. And so many people come up to me like, Jay, we like you, but we love Ravi. And I'm like, that works for me because I love Ravi too. And they'll always say to me, they'll be like, you know, Ravi's career is taking off. Like, what if it surpasses yours? And what if, you know, she does more than you and does better than you? How would you feel about that? And I always say, well, I plan on being really successful. So if my wife outperforms me.

• 27:20Lewis Howes?

  You guys are crushing it.

• 27:22Jay Shetty?

  I love it. Like, I'm so happy. And I think that's because I feel confident in who I am, what I offer to the world and how I want to show up. And therefore I can feel really confident for my wife and seeing her grow and, you know, her cookbook's coming out. And she's got a podcast coming out and I'm, I'm excited for her. And I think my wife should have the biggest TV show in the world because she's so charismatic and just, she's beautiful and wonderful in the sense of just her energy. I would love for her to have all those things. And so I think when I look at this, yes, did I feel I had a responsibility to make money? Yes. I think I was raised in a more traditional way, even though funny thing is my mom was the breadwinner in my home.

• 28:02Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 28:03Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. My mom's the breadwinner in my home. So my mom used to. Wake us up, make us breakfast, drop us to school, go to work, make money, come back, pick us up from school, make dinner, give us a packed lunch, work on our homework with us, and then go back out to work if she had to. So I actually saw what a household looked like when I had a powerhouse, superwoman mom, who actually did everything. And my dad wasn't always the main breadwinner, ever since I was probably 10 years old. And so for the biggest part of my life, my adult life especially, my mom was that person. And my mom did that because she loved us.

• 28:43Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 28:44Jay Shetty?

  And she never, ever looked at it as, why am I having to do this and why is he? And I think my desire to wanting to be a breadwinner is not because I'm a man. It's because I saw how much stress it placed on my mom.

• 28:56Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 28:57Jay Shetty?

  And I was like, I never wanna see someone that stressed out, myself or my partner. This isn't about gender roles anymore. This is about, again, what me and you keep coming back to, and I think this is why we have a good friendship, because we value peace so highly.

• 29:12Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 29:12Jay Shetty?

  I value peace of my mom, I value peace of my wife, I value the peace of myself. And so I work hard because I wanna live a peaceful life, not because I think I have to be the provider.

• 29:23Lewis Howes?

  Right. For me, it comes down to knowing yourself and knowing the role you wanna play in a relationship. Now, I will say this, there are very few relationships that I know where the woman is the breadwinner and the man is choosing to work less for whatever reasons. Maybe they have kids and he's, you know, more at-home dad or things like that. Or he's just not as thinking about being the provider, right, for the relationship in the home. There are very few relationships that I see have a lot of harmony. There are a couple I've seen that do, but not as much harmony as I think, right?

• 30:09Lewis Howes?

  So I'm not saying these can't work, but I go back to you. It's like knowing yourself, knowing your strength, and knowing the role you wanna play in relationship. I was playing basketball for the first time last night, a little tired actually, it was the first time jumping around in the like a year. And I was realizing there was a guy who's, I don't know, six, 10 on, on the team that I was playing with.

• 30:28Jay Shetty?

  And you're what, six, four?

• 30:29Lewis Howes?

  Six, four. And so he's tall, right? He's like, can just jump and dunk so easily. And he's just like, he's supposed to be down by.

• 30:35Jay Shetty?

  Now you know how I feel when I'm with you.

• 30:38Lewis Howes?

  And he tried to bring the ball up the court. He tried to dribble it like a point guard. And it got stolen pretty easily and he just kind of fumbled around and fell down. It was chaos of him trying to be in a role that he was not his strength, is not what he, you know, is good at.

• 30:55Jay Shetty?

  Oh, I love that.

• 30:56Lewis Howes?

  And it wasn't the best harmony and flow. But then he was underneath the basket. He got a rebound. He jammed it and it was just like, boom, it was explosive in terms of like this passion and flow. He was in his strength and his role, right? And I think it's just knowing what type of strengths we have as individuals.

• 31:14Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 31:14Lewis Howes?

  Some men are more driven and high earners and want to create and want to provide because they want that. It makes them feel good. Other men may not be that. Some women may want to be that, that high earner and driven and, you know, working all the time and, and be a provider. Because it makes them feel a certain way. Maybe it makes them feel more safe or protected or whatever. Or less reliant on someone and all those things are, are fair game. I think it's knowing yourself.

• 31:38Jay Shetty?

  I love that.

• 31:39Lewis Howes?

  And with Martha, um.

• 31:40Jay Shetty?

  I was gonna say that. Yeah, I was gonna bring up, yeah.

• 31:43Lewis Howes?

  Martha, she's been crushing it for 20 years. You know, she's done like 40 movies and she's creative and does commercials. She's doing a lot of stuff. She's making great money. But I enjoy providing. Now, I also enjoy support. I also enjoy peace. I also enjoy someone taking care of logistics, someone taking care of all the things that I don't want to do around the home that cause me stress. Someone being responsible for those things and someone also contributing financially in certain ways. And fully appreciating the role, the strengths and the value she brings. It doesn't need to be 50, 50 financially.

• 32:24Lewis Howes?

  But we a hundred percent bring our strengths and values to our individual roles.

• 32:29Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 32:30Lewis Howes?

  That creates peace and harmony.

• 32:31Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 32:32Lewis Howes?

  And for me, that is the key. And I had to learn the hard way for, you know, twenty something years in multiple relationships that were dysfunctional based on lack of communication around who I am, what I want, uh, who the other person is, their strengths, their, what they want, and the roles we want to share together.

• 32:50Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely.

• 32:51Lewis Howes?

  And that's what it comes down for me.

• 32:52Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely. I, I, I love everything you said because I think that's the reality of the communication, not only the self-awareness, but the communication in a relationship to say, which one of us wants to go to work?

• 33:03Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 33:04Jay Shetty?

  Which one of us is really ambitious and crushes it? Which one of us? And maybe it's both of us, maybe it's neither of us, maybe it's one or the other. And I think that's where the challenge arises when we both feel like, well, neither of us really wanna, we don't love what we do, we hate work, we have to do it. And I think that's where what you're saying comes even more into play, this idea of mutual support. And I think what's really interesting is, this is how I judge it. I feel like a relationship is an energy exchange physically, financially, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually. The problem is that the financial exchange is the only visible one. And so we put it at the top of the hierarchy.

• 33:48Jay Shetty?

  So if you're sitting right now in your relationship going, wait a minute, I pay for everything, I would ask you, who's mentally leading the relationship? So you're financially leading it. Who's mentally leading the relationship? Who's physically leading the relationship? When I mean physically, what I mean is who's taking care of the physical things like the house, the, the, the responsibilities, the things that have to happen? Who's taking emotional care? Who's creating that peace?

• 34:13Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 34:14Jay Shetty?

  So I've said that with me and Radhi for years, like, you know, when we first moved to the US, Radhi couldn't work. She was on my visa, et cetera. And then Radhi's doing really, really well for herself now and, and, you know, we, we co-create and work together financially. But then if I look at emotionally, Rati is so emotionally regulated. She brings so much peace to this relationship. I'm the one who can have mood swings and be a moody guy. My wife is so emotionally regulated, I'm so grateful for that. Like, she leads that. She leads us physically. She makes sure that we both work out. She's the one making sure I eat right because she takes care of what foods and snacks are available in the house. So now you're looking at another thing that goes a point on her side.

• 34:52Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 34:53Jay Shetty?

  Okay, mentally, maybe that's a bit more me. I'm the one who's saying, okay, this is how we're gonna take care of ourselves. This is what we're focusing on. I'm the one who's strategizing where we're heading. So now if you look at it, we're equal.

• 35:04Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 35:04Jay Shetty?

  But if you're looking at one thing.

• 35:06Lewis Howes?

  Just money, it doesn't work.

• 35:07Jay Shetty?

  Just money, it doesn't work like that.

• 35:08Lewis Howes?

  You gotta be thinking about the contribution for your role and responsibility in the relationship.

• 35:12Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 35:13Lewis Howes?

  And again, if we come from the basis of relationships are about giving, not about receiving.

• 35:17Jay Shetty?

  Hundred percent.

• 35:18Lewis Howes?

  If we come into that mindset, because a lot of us get into it because we want to feel something, as opposed to create and give something and contribute something. So we just have to shift our thinking around how we can serve in the relationship first. But we also don't want to be thinking, okay, I need to be serving in so many ways and I'm not gonna receive anything.

• 35:36Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 35:37Lewis Howes?

  And I'm gonna be, you know, paying for everything, showing up emotionally. This person's emotionally unregulated constantly. I have to clean up everything around the house. This person doesn't want to do it. There's an imbalance then. And that's when you're gonna have a lot of conflict, frustration, stress, and you're gonna be asking yourself, why am I in this relationship?

• 35:57Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, and that's why I think you have to look at it this broadly. Because if you just look at one thing, like, same with Rati. If she looked at it as just who's doing the housework and making sure the fridge is stocked and everything, then she would think she's doing way more than I am.

• 36:11Lewis Howes?

  That you don't help around the house ever, you don't pick up after yourself, whatever.

• 36:14Jay Shetty?

  And this is what we do. We just focus on the one thing we're getting right. And we're measuring our partner based on that one thing.

• 36:22Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 36:22Jay Shetty?

  And that is the recipe for disaster in a relationship.

• 36:25Lewis Howes?

  Do you have an assessment of these five things in your book?

• 36:27Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, this assessment's broken down. Yeah, like how to value each of those five things equally. Because we see money as more important than emotional and mental support.

• 36:37Lewis Howes?

  Well, money is a big thing because money equals your time.

• 36:41Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 36:41Lewis Howes?

  And your life. Time is your life. And so if you're, say, here's an example. I was in a previous relationship, I won't say which one, but I was in a previous one where the person I was dating wanted me to buy them a car. And we had just, you know, we hadn't been dating that long, right? And it didn't make sense to me. This person also had their own money. So they had money to buy their own car, but they wanted me to buy their car. And it didn't make sense because we weren't in harmony at that time. So we were already kind of stressed out. I wasn't even sure of the future. And it was a big issue for this person. And I remember thinking, okay. Let me explore this. What type of car do you want to buy? How much? Like, it was like, she wanted me to buy her like a fifty, sixty thousand dollar car. I go, this is a lot of money.

• 37:27Lewis Howes?

  And you can pay for this on your own, but she just had it in her mind that the man was supposed to pay for things. That was in her mind, right? Even though she had money was, and so I was like, well, I don't have peace. So why should I be paying to spend my time from the past to work hard to pay for something? When there's not peace, when there's, there doesn't feel like an equal exchange of like shared values. So I think we got to understand like, what it is you want, what you're willing to provide for and pay for. You know, money is your time and your life. You know, you work hard and you go in the studio and you record things and that takes days of your life. And if you invest that money into something that isn't serving the relationship for a greater purpose,

• 38:13Lewis Howes?

  then essentially you're wasting, you're spending money on things that don't serve you to cause you more stress. And you're wasting your life.

• 38:19Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, wow.

• 38:20Lewis Howes?

  That's what it feels like. And that's where, so money gets to be really.

• 38:25Jay Shetty?

  It is important, yeah. It shouldn't be devalued in that.

• 38:27Lewis Howes?

  And Martha also says to me, you know, she makes a great point. And so I'm going to say on the other side of things. She's like, listen, and I don't need her to financially pay the same amounts, right, of things. It's not what I want. And she said to me, no, I do a lot of things around our home and I'm and phone calls with people. And that is time and time is money where I'm not making money.

• 38:49Jay Shetty?

  Totally.

• 38:49Lewis Howes?

  So I am coordinating things. I'm on the phone. I'm scheduling. I'm making sure this is taken care of. So you don't have to worry about it.

• 38:56Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 38:56Lewis Howes?

  And it is her time, which is money. And so it's acknowledging that for that if you're a woman and you're contributing in a lot of ways with your time, you may not be spending the money to buy things, but that time is money essentially. It is your life.

• 39:11Jay Shetty?

  So I had a friend, the, the woman was a doctor performing really well. And he was a lawyer when they met and he was crushing it. So they were like both high earners doing really well for themselves. Then what happened was he was going through a personal issue of depression and, and challenges. And, you know, going through his own mental health journey. And at that point, he could no longer function at work. Like he just couldn't function. It wasn't even that he didn't want to. It was that he just didn't find like he could function and so he stepped away.

• 39:45Lewis Howes?

  And stopped making money.

• 39:46Jay Shetty?

  And stopped making money. And at that point, I remember talking to them and asking them if she was okay with it. And she goes, I didn't marry him for that. I was with him because he was always there to listen to me. He always understood me. He always valued me. And I love being a doctor. I love the work I do. And if it means that I'm going to be the breadwinner forever, I'm good with that. And to me, that was just this really healthy look at what a long-term relationship is. Because you don't have any idea of the highs and lows that are going to come on either side. And one of the things you just mentioned to me, this I love, this I got shown years ago. And I bring it up because it's the point you're making that I think so many people are undervalued. So there was a survey done of 6,000 mums.

• 40:30Jay Shetty?

  And they estimated that a stay-at-home mum's work, an average of 94 hours a week.

• 40:36Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man.

• 40:37Jay Shetty?

  And it would collect a mum's salary of 113,586 dollars a year. When you trade that time for money.

• 40:47Lewis Howes?

  That's true.

• 40:48Jay Shetty?

  And obviously I'm sure that number is totally inaccurate because I think we'd all say that mums are priceless. Valueless, like you can't even.

• 40:56Lewis Howes?

  But if you're saying, okay, if you're going to work somewhere and get a certain hourly wage. This is what you, you receive.

• 41:01Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. The, the fact that if, if people, and whether that's a stay-at-home mum or a stay-at-home dad. If we can't see that as a massive role, if we can't see a homemaker as a massive role, if we can't see the person who's making sure that there's food in the fridge and that there's food on the table, all aspects of the role, if we can't see that, then we're missing the point.

• 41:24Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 41:25Jay Shetty?

  Right? We're completely missing the point. And I think too many of us are overvaluing and undervaluing and not looking at the complete picture of what that takes.

• 41:33Lewis Howes?

  And I think this is where it gets awkward, you know, in the awkward therapy because,

• 41:40Lewis Howes?

  but I, again, I just feel like it's knowing what role do you want to play in your life? What is that role? Do you want to be a stay at home mom? And that's the role you want to live? Do you, or do you want to be, have kids, but then go back to work three months later and be a high earner? And, you know, find babysitter and daycare and find other support and try to do both. I'm not saying there's a right or wrong. You just got to know what you want and what you're best at. What is your strength?

• 42:08Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 42:09Lewis Howes?

  What is the role you want to play? And what consequence is this role going to have now and in the future?

• 42:15Jay Shetty?

  Yep.

• 42:15Lewis Howes?

  Could be a good consequence, but you being at work all day for eighteen years of your kids' lives and then coming home at night and being there on the weekends and showing up in that way, what consequence will that have? Maybe it's a good consequence where it's like, wow, my mom like did it all. She was like the boss. She was this, this, she, and she showed up for us. She was a super mom. She provided and then she was a home. She was giving and she was caring, but that's time. It's a lot of time and energy. And maybe you're not going to be as connected to your, your partner, your husband. Maybe you're not going to be as present in things. Maybe you're not be able to take care of your health as well. So there might be a consequence to whatever decision that we make.

• 42:53Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely.

• 42:53Lewis Howes?

  And I think it's knowing what we want, what our role is. And, and we don't always have the, the luxury of choosing these things. It's not like, oh, if we're struggling with money, both people might have to work, right?

• 43:04Jay Shetty?

  Totally.

• 43:04Lewis Howes?

  We may not always have this luxury of like, well, I just want to be a stay at home mom all day because that's what I want. You may need to work weekends and nights and things like that, so.

• 43:13Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, sound advice.

• 43:14Lewis Howes?

  And it comes back to what I think we both, I think both of our philosophy is what brings the most harmony and peace in a relationship and knowing that and trying to, to, to live into that as frequently as possible, so.

• 43:31Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely, absolutely. All right, so. We're gonna dive into this as a follow up and going a bit deeper to push the awkward button. So how do you feel about dividing up rent? Who should take on the responsibility? And how would you feel if your partner was covering more rent than you?

• 43:53Lewis Howes?

  It's all situational. So there's one situation, whereas what if someone already owns the home?

• 44:00Jay Shetty?

  Would you feel emasculated if your partner pays for more rent?

• 44:04Lewis Howes?

  Pay for rent? Would I feel emasculated personally? Yes. I wouldn't feel emasculated. I feel like I'm not doing my role to the best of my ability. I would feel awkward personally because of my makeup and my personality and my, my beliefs and my values. And I would feel like there would be a dynamic that I wouldn't enjoy. So it doesn't mean it couldn't work. That's not what the end game would want to be. And so maybe I would have less at that time and I'd be like, okay, this is where I'm at. And it would drive me to get out of the place that I'm in. It would give me a reason to kind of like overcome what I'm going through.

• 44:42Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 44:43Lewis Howes?

  So for me, that's, that's how I would feel based on my, just my values and my, my beliefs, I guess. But again, I don't know. What do you think?

• 44:54Jay Shetty?

  So I think it depends on like, again, it comes down to was this a place that was previously rented and someone's moving in?

• 45:01Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 45:02Jay Shetty?

  Because if it's my place and I'm already renting it and then I'm inviting someone to move in with me, then I've got to have that conversation upfront, whether they're now going to join in.

• 45:10Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 45:11Jay Shetty?

  Right? Because I'm already paying that rent.

• 45:13Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 45:13Jay Shetty?

  Now is it, are we actually separately renting and we want to get a place together? Now are we going to set that budget together and have that conversation? Then I think it's a great 50 50 moment.

• 45:22Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 45:22Jay Shetty?

  If that's, if that's where you are in your relationship.

• 45:25Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 45:25Jay Shetty?

  And I think so much of this is defined by how confident we feel in a relationship. But I would encourage people that I think we've made love feel like if someone loves me, then they'll pay a hundred percent. I don't think that's a healthy way of measuring love. I think love.

• 45:42Lewis Howes?

  A guy could say, well, if they love me, they'd have sex with me every time I want it.

• 45:45Jay Shetty?

  Yep.

• 45:46Lewis Howes?

  You know, they would, they would do what I want anytime I want it.

• 45:48Jay Shetty?

  Anytime I want it, yeah.

• 45:49Lewis Howes?

  They'd cook me a meal every day, they'd have sex with me, that's what love is for me.

• 45:52Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 45:52Lewis Howes?

  So they need to do what I want too.

• 45:54Jay Shetty?

  And it gets so messy when you have that standard. And so to me, it's having that healthy conversation of saying, we want to get a place together, we're gonna split it, or you're moving in with me. Hey, if, if, if this works out, if this is going in the right direction, maybe we can have that conversation down the line of how we split rent, like, and I know these are the unsexy, uncomfortable conversations, but they're real, like you need to have those. Like me and Riley have those conversations right now where we're like, all right, well, this is our mortgage payment, like how are we splitting that, how are we figuring that out? Or we've got this payment, how are we figuring that out?

• 46:22Lewis Howes?

  There was two people that I lived with before in previous relationships that I didn't have these questions, these conversations with. They were just assumed like we would figure it out because we care, we like each other, we love each other, whatever.

• 46:34Jay Shetty?

  That's the.

• 46:34Lewis Howes?

  And they, they ended poorly, right? It, it was stressful, it was exhausting, it wasn't fun and exciting, right?

• 46:41Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 46:42Lewis Howes?

  And I think you've got to really ask the unsexy, boring, not fun questions before you get into living together.

• 46:51Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 46:51Lewis Howes?

  Don't just casually rent together.

• 46:53Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 46:53Lewis Howes?

  Don't just casually move in.

• 46:55Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 46:55Lewis Howes?

  Don't just casually be like, okay, we're to play house before marriage.

• 46:59Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 46:59Lewis Howes?

  Unless you have these conversations. This is something Martha, this is fresh for me because this happened.

• 47:03Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 47:04Lewis Howes?

  You know, a year and a half ago, I guess, with, with Martha and myself. We were dating for a few months and before we became, I guess, exclusively committed. And we had all these questions before we got exclusively committed. Then we were dating for a while longer, we, we decided to rent an apartment together. She had a place that she owned. And I said, I'm not moving in there. There was like an option. But I was like, I don't want to move into a place that you own. It just felt weird, it felt awkward to me. What am I gonna pay all the rent? Am I gonna pay half the rent? Am I, you know? It didn't feel right. I go, let's, if we're gonna do this. Let's go into a new place and I will pay for all the rent.

• 47:48Jay Shetty?

  Right.

• 47:48Lewis Howes?

  I'm pretty sure that's what we did. She, I think she paid for like utilities and other things and food and like we made an agreement. I was like, I feel comfortable paying for this, but I want to have support.

• 48:00Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 48:00Lewis Howes?

  How would you like to support?

• 48:02Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 48:02Lewis Howes?

  And she was like, I'm happy to pay for these things and this and take care of this and make sure all this is handled. I go, that feels great to me.

• 48:08Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 48:09Lewis Howes?

  This agreement around money feels really good.

• 48:12Jay Shetty?

  Hmm, yeah.

• 48:13Lewis Howes?

  Then we entered the, the, the apartment that we lived in with that agreement. There was never a time where I was like, oh, I'm paying for more things and resentful and frustrated, you know what I mean? And so I think you gotta have these conversations about what feels good for you, your strengths and your roles.

• 48:29Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 48:30Lewis Howes?

  And make sure you're in agreement before entering this.

• 48:33Jay Shetty?

  Well, I think what we're getting at here is there are these hidden expectations in relationships. And when you're on the other side of a hidden expectation, it breeds resentment. And now it comes out in that argument at night about the TV show you're watching when that isn't the issue. The issue is you feel like that person is living off of your hard work.

• 48:54Lewis Howes?

  They don't value you.

• 48:55Jay Shetty?

  But you didn't wanna say it to them because you wanted to be the nice guy too. And so there's this whole people pleasing thing that comes into it, all the hidden expectation like, and I think I've been the same. It's, it's what's always worked for me and Ravi. It's like from day one, we had these conversations. We've continued to have these conversations, even as things have changed. Because I think if you're not having these uncomfortable, difficult conversations, then I promise you, you're feeling awkward and uncomfortable in your mind.

• 49:21Lewis Howes?

  And you're frustrated, resentful.

• 49:23Jay Shetty?

  And you're frustrated and resentful. And now that's causing way more issues. So

• 49:26Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 49:26Jay Shetty?

  How do I think the rent should be split? I, I don't like, and I think we're both this way. I'm not giving people like, it should be 50 50 issue. I think numbers are a stupid thing to give people because everyone's situation is so unique.

• 49:38Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 49:39Jay Shetty?

  But you've gotta be having this conversation and finding out a split that you're genuinely both comfortable with. And by the way, if you're not comfortable, say it. But if you have a silly expectation for the other person, hidden that, oh, if they love me, they'll take care of everything. That's not gonna work. Like, that's, that's not love.

• 49:56Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I mean, again, Martha could pay for half

• 49:59Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 50:00Lewis Howes?

  of everything.

• 50:01Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 50:01Lewis Howes?

  And she'd be fine.

• 50:02Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 50:02Lewis Howes?

  Cause she makes good money. And she's saved her money and invested her money. She's been smart for twenty years working. Like, she's got a history of being smart with her money. But that's not what I want.

• 50:13Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 50:13Lewis Howes?

  I don't want that.

• 50:14Jay Shetty?

  And she's happy to receive in that way, too, yeah.

• 50:16Lewis Howes?

  I want other things from her than her contributing her money fifty fifty. That's not what I want in a relationship. Other people might want that.

• 50:24Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 50:25Lewis Howes?

  I don't want that.

• 50:26Jay Shetty?

  And that's okay if they want that, yeah.

• 50:27Lewis Howes?

  That's great, yeah. It's figuring out what brings you the most peace and harmony.

• 50:30Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 50:31Lewis Howes?

  And less stress, cause stress is a thing that causes the most pain physically for us, mentally, emotionally. And it causes relationships to die.

• 50:42Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 50:42Lewis Howes?

  Stress. Constant stress causes them to die. Maybe you stay together forever, but the relationship is dead. And it's not thriving. It's not growing or flourishing. And so be very honest with the person you're dating when you, before you get into a, a, a living arrangement. About how you wanna show up and provide the role you wanna play. And what will make you feel good if the other person provides in a certain way. And you may be off.

• 51:09Jay Shetty?

  Definitely.

• 51:09Lewis Howes?

  And that just may mean you need to get clear on, uh, okay, do we even wanna be together? This could be a big red flag. If we can't figure out how to live together, can we be together forever?

• 51:20Jay Shetty?

  Totally.

• 51:21Lewis Howes?

  Just cause we love each other, we like each other, we've had good times for the last year, doesn't mean you should be together.

• 51:26Jay Shetty?

  Totally. And I don't think you have to have your financial situation match your emotional state.

• 51:33Lewis Howes?

  No.

• 51:33Jay Shetty?

  Like, those are two separate conversations.

• 51:35Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 51:36Jay Shetty?

  Because your financial situation doesn't necessarily align with what you're feeling emotionally.

• 51:42Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 51:42Jay Shetty?

  Like, someone could be all in emotionally, but they may not have the finances to align the same way as that.

• 51:48Lewis Howes?

  But showing up emotionally and, and contributing in that way is a big value add.

• 51:52Jay Shetty?

  Massive.

• 51:53Lewis Howes?

  And there are a lot of people that can have money but be jerks.

• 51:57Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 51:57Lewis Howes?

  And be...

• 51:58Jay Shetty?

  And the other side too, where I think a lot of people feel like you can be with a great person, but if they can't, if they don't wanna work and they don't wanna put in the time and have these conversations, that's unhealthy too.

• 52:07Lewis Howes?

  You're gonna be resentful of that, too.

• 52:08Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, exactly. So that, love doesn't, love's not gonna make up. For either of those things.

• 52:13Lewis Howes?

  Love is not enough.

• 52:14Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, this is your.

• 52:15Lewis Howes?

  Love is not enough, man. And that's why I say I've I've seen relationships where women are in the they're higher earners than the men they're with. But they're like, man, this guy shows up and he's he's a good guy and he shows up for my kids or this and that. But if the the man is not willing, in my mind, to figure out a way to contribute also financially, I just think it's hard long term. I just haven't seen it work long term. Unless there's an agreement where the woman's like, I want to make all the money and I just want you to be the stay at home dad. And I want you to show up and contribute in other ways around the homes and make me feel like I just haven't seen many situations. Now, maybe that'll change. I don't know, but.

• 52:57Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 52:58Lewis Howes?

  I I have a feeling, I mean, this is awkward, but I have a feeling that women in general want a man to be able to provide in some ways financially. And if there's, if they can't provide in any way financially, I don't think that's what a lot of women want. I think there has to be some financial contribution beyond I'm just gonna show up and be a good guy and love you. I just, I don't know. That might be the most awkward thing I said.

• 53:22Jay Shetty?

  No, I I I get what you're saying. It's it's it's definitely like it will it will push some buttons for some people. But I think I think what you're saying is that that's why it's so important that people reflect and really are clear about what they expect, because I think a lot of people go, no, I don't expect that. I don't want that. But then do you really want it, right? Like it's and and there's a lot of things that get lost in those hidden expectations.

• 53:43Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, and it all depends on situations. I mean, if you're a man that's, if you're like, okay, I'm not gonna make any money because that's not what I want, but my role, I can build a home. I can go hunt. I can do every, I can provide in every other way.

• 53:54Jay Shetty?

  It's all value. It's all value. It's like, how much value are you bringing?

• 53:58Lewis Howes?

  That's it.

• 53:59Jay Shetty?

  This one's interesting.

• 54:00Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man.

• 54:01Jay Shetty?

  Should you share a bank account and when?

• 54:04Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man.

• 54:05Jay Shetty?

  So I remember that, and this may be an Indian culture thing, but I remember when me and Ravi got married, that was really important to her and it comes from a family expectation around this is the time when you need full transparency and and full openness. I think for me, it didn't feel like a big thing. I've always been very transparent. I didn't have issues with it. I married Radhi with all the intentions of wanting to be together forever. And I saw everything we now had as ours. Granted, I did not have a lot. And so.

• 54:43Lewis Howes?

  Now, let's say you met Radhi now.

• 54:46Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 54:46Lewis Howes?

  When you had a lot of financial success in the career and the business. And you just met and, you know, in a couple of years you got married. Would you have that same thought of life?

• 54:56Jay Shetty?

  If I'm completely honest, and doesn't apply to Radhi as a person, I think it applies to meeting someone. I don't think I'd be the same because I think I have so much more to lose. And I have so much more, not that I wouldn't, if I was gonna marry someone, I'm sure I trust them.

• 55:14Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 55:14Jay Shetty?

  But I don't think that in this interaction, that exchange would feel equal or accurate.

• 55:20Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 55:21Jay Shetty?

  Based on the amount of time we've spent together. Whereas, you know, Radhi was with me when I had absolutely nothing apart from myself to offer. And has been with me and also never expected anything. When we lived in a tiny, you know, shoebox apartment in New York, she was happy. When we had a little place that we had in London, she was happy. Like Radhi's never wanted stuff. She's never asked. She's never made that the way this relationship's gone. So.

• 55:48Lewis Howes?

  If you're meeting someone in another world and you've built the business that you have.

• 55:51Jay Shetty?

  I would struggle and I see that with my, I see that with friends I have. Like I have male friends who are far more successful than I am financially. And they struggle to date because they have no idea what the person is attracted to. And some of these people are public figures, some of these are not public figures. The ones who are not public figures can get away with it, but they're also scared of like, well, when do I invite the person to my house? And when do I allow them to see all this other stuff that I have? And what if they Google me? And, you know, all these kind of things. And by the way, this applies to female friends I have too. Like I have plenty of friends who are really successful women who feel the same way about dating men. Because they don't know as well. They're like, well, are they just trying to get friendly with the people I know?

• 56:34Jay Shetty?

  And do they just want access to my network? And do, you know, are they just trying to find the person who's gonna fund their next movie? Maybe they're an up and, like, where are they trying to go? So I don't think this is a gender thing. Again, I think everyone feels this. But I would say, yes, that when I met Radhi. Again, this does not apply to Radhi. I would have done that with anyone I married at the time because I would only marry someone I trust.

• 56:53Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 56:54Jay Shetty?

  I think now.

• 56:54Lewis Howes?

  But you had nothing.

• 56:55Jay Shetty?

  But I had nothing, so it wouldn't even be a thought.

• 56:57Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 56:58Jay Shetty?

  Because I had nothing to lose.

• 56:59Lewis Howes?

  But now you have something, would you share a bank account?

• 57:01Jay Shetty?

  I wouldn't now, yeah. I don't think it would be, I don't think I'd, I, I, I think there'd be parts of it, but not all of it.

• 57:08Lewis Howes?

  Right, right, yeah. I think it's, I think it's all situational.

• 57:11Jay Shetty?

  I mean, yeah, I'm intrigued to hear your take.

• 57:13Lewis Howes?

  I mean, we're, I mean, we're in this situation right now where we, I probably wouldn't have, we're not married yet, right? So we're engaged, we're not married yet, but we have a home together. You know, we do a lot together.

• 57:24Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 57:25Lewis Howes?

  And we are intending to be married. This is our vision. We want to have a family, all these things.

• 57:29Jay Shetty?

  But you're both also equally like people who are.

• 57:32Lewis Howes?

  She's got her businesses, she's got her stuff and, you know, she's got her money, I've got mine, et cetera. And so we're kind of navigating this right now because we're, we're both, you know, we're both older, right? We're, and trying to figure this out. And we created a joint account for the home.

• 57:50Jay Shetty?

  That makes perfect sense.

• 57:51Lewis Howes?

  Right, it's like, it's part of like getting the loan and all these different things.

• 57:54Jay Shetty?

  Because it's a joint decision.

• 57:55Lewis Howes?

  Yes, so we created that. Now, there are certain amounts that we put in for the home that were, were different, but we had agreements on what we're going to do. And so we have a joint account there, right? And that feels fine, but we don't touch that money. It's just sitting there to be able to pay the house or whatever. But I, I'm not going to give her my business accounts. You know, it's like, I have a business I've been running for a long time. And I don't need her, I don't need access to her business accounts. Now, when we get married, I'm assuming it, maybe it'll make sense to create a joint account where there's a certain amount of money for certain logistics or whatever. But I don't know, I think I still have to figure all this out.

• 58:31Jay Shetty?

  And that's the right answer because it's like, same with me. I'm, I'm supposing that if I was, I wouldn't know, but you've meant a lot of words right now. So we're talking about a joint business account. We're talking about joint decision making.

• 58:42Lewis Howes?

  No.

• 58:42Jay Shetty?

  You're talking about a joint home, like that's what I'm saying, like if there's joint decision making, it makes sense.

• 58:47Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 58:47Jay Shetty?

  If there's joint purchases, it makes sense. Like, I think that's the point that.

• 58:53Lewis Howes?

  Not just here's my account, you have access to it, spend whatever you want. That doesn't work for me.

• 58:57Jay Shetty?

  That doesn't work for anyone, right? Like it's so unhealthy and and I think again, we look at that and go, but that's not love. Like love would mean that you just, don't you wanna share everything?

• 59:06Lewis Howes?

  Everything that you've built, yeah.

• 59:07Jay Shetty?

  And it's like, well, yes, I do trust you. That's why we're in this world together. But we're talking here about decades of work.

• 59:15Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 59:15Jay Shetty?

  That you don't just give away and share in a moment.

• 59:20Lewis Howes?

  Because of love.

• 59:21Jay Shetty?

  Because of love, yeah. And and I think a lot of people are looking at me like, well, that's not love. You don't love someone. And I'm like, I can't, obviously, I'm looking at it hypothetically.

• 59:28Lewis Howes?

  I mean, just because you love someone doesn't mean you're supposed to be married.

• 59:31Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 59:31Lewis Howes?

  Also, because lots of people fall in love, get married and they get divorced. Does that mean they didn't love each other? Or does it just mean they didn't align on how to make a relationship work, living together with their lives together?

• 59:43Jay Shetty?

  And these things can get messy that way. And that's what I think you're protecting, that knowing the reality of relationships and knowing that breakups, divorces, all these things happening.

• 59:52Lewis Howes?

  All the time.

• 59:53Jay Shetty?

  When you have money tied up in it, it gets very messy.

• 59:57Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, and I think that's why, you know, I don't know if we're gonna be talking about prenups.

• 1:00:00Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, we should.

• 1:00:00Lewis Howes?

  Um, because I I interviewed someone recently, a woman who um, I asked her about like, she's made a lot of money later in her life, right? And I said, is it important for women to have a prenup who make a lot of money? And she said, before I was making this money and I was with the guy, he was making more, now I'm making more. And she was like, it's really important for me to have a prenup now. Since the the financial dynamic has shifted, right? Now, she said it in a way that was like for both of us, like it's for him and for me. Um, but her thoughts on like prenups are like, I think if you're making a lot of money as a woman, you should have it.

• 1:00:42Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:00:43Lewis Howes?

  Now, there's more to that that we unpacked, but I don't wanna just blanket statement this. But um, and for me, I think it's about agreements. It's about clarity and agreements. And again, I'm still kind of figuring this out in this process right now with myself. But I think when you have clarity of like, okay, the intention is to be together and to be together forever is when people get married, right? That's kind of the intention. It's not let's be together for 10 years and see what happens.

• 1:01:06Jay Shetty?

  Totally.

• 1:01:07Lewis Howes?

  But I think it's also clear to say. If this, when this, how this, what will be next?

• 1:01:13Jay Shetty?

  And that's, you're actually protecting and honoring each other by having these conversations as opposed to just expecting again that this is what love means. And I think that's where we make the biggest mistakes, where we're like, love to me means everything that is yours is mine, everything that mine is yours. Okay, if we both agree on that, do it, that's beautiful. Like, I'm not, by the way, I don't think me and Lewis here are saying you have to have a prenup. If you don't want one, that's beautiful, I respect that. I don't have one, right? Like, we never needed one, we never did one. It's beautiful. I'm not saying you have to have one, I'm saying, please have that conversation.

• 1:01:50Lewis Howes?

  Have the conversation.

• 1:01:51Jay Shetty?

  And don't feel uncomfortable bringing it up, because if someone really honors you and values you, all you're doing is honoring something. By the way, people have prenups for like, when their parents wanna give them gifts.

• 1:02:00Lewis Howes?

  Hundred percent, yeah.

• 1:02:01Jay Shetty?

  Like, let's say you're with someone, and their parents are like, hey, when we pass on, I'm gonna give this gift to my child. They want their partner to sign a prenup, because they're like, this belongs to my son, or whatever, maybe a daughter.

• 1:02:13Lewis Howes?

  I think, what do you call it, a prenup or an agreement? I think an agreement creates more clarity and peace.

• 1:02:18Jay Shetty?

  Agreements all the way.

• 1:02:19Lewis Howes?

  And it creates freedom. You can call it a prenup, you can call it, we just wanna have an agreement, whatever it is. I think people have this weird thing around a prenup, like it's this bad thing.

• 1:02:28Jay Shetty?

  The word carries baggage.

• 1:02:29Lewis Howes?

  As opposed to, can we create an agreement that if you cheat on me and you wanna leave, you don't get to take everything?

• 1:02:35Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:35Lewis Howes?

  Can we just make that agreement? Like, that's not fair.

• 1:02:37Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:38Lewis Howes?

  Whereas, if we don't have an agreement, the state has their agreements.

• 1:02:43Jay Shetty?

  Yes, I like this, I like this.

• 1:02:45Lewis Howes?

  The state is already going, made an agreement for you, based on your marriage. Each state has different agreements. Do we value those agreements? Does that feel fair and right for me? And if it does, cool, we don't need a prenup. We like that they can do this, and they'll divvy it up how they want, fifty fifty, and they'll give us custody how they want. If we agree with their thoughts on our lives and our relationship,

• 1:03:09Jay Shetty?

  That's a great point.

• 1:03:10Lewis Howes?

  Then we'll give them power.

• 1:03:11Jay Shetty?

  That's a great point.

• 1:03:12Lewis Howes?

  If we wanna take back our power for our relationship, let's create an agreement. And if you turn that into a prenuptial agreement, great.

• 1:03:20Jay Shetty?

  I love that.

• 1:03:21Lewis Howes?

  It creates clarity. So you're giving the state power over your relationship breakup, or you create that power?

• 1:03:27Jay Shetty?

  That's the win. That's the win. I love it.

• 1:03:30Lewis Howes?

  It's just getting clear.

• 1:03:31Jay Shetty?

  One thing I was thinking of, and we don't need to go into this, but it was an honest thought. I think what I said about the prenup, about success and prenup. I actually said it for wanting people to be more thoughtful. I think I'm a, I've got to a place in my life, and I've always been this way. Is that if someone's gonna take and steal from me, I'm like, have it. I actually don't even care. I'm on a person, if you actually asked me, we've had, I mean, this, this part I wouldn't put live, but like, we've had employees steal from us.

• 1:03:57Lewis Howes?

  Of course, me too, man.

• 1:03:58Jay Shetty?

  We've had like, you know, right? And I've just, and I've never tried to get about it. It's like, cool, if that's you, bro, fired, take it, get lost. I don't care. Like, I'm good. Like, I'm not that guy. Like, I'm not someone who's.

• 1:04:08Lewis Howes?

  Well, if you got a hundred million in the bank, and you have a partner that's like, I'm gonna take everything because you hurt me.

• 1:04:14Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:14Lewis Howes?

  That's a different thing.

• 1:04:15Jay Shetty?

  I think, I think karmically though, I'm like, I know that karma will take care of that.

• 1:04:19Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:19Jay Shetty?

  I think that's how I genuinely live.

• 1:04:21Lewis Howes?

  That's also like, okay, if you spent twenty, thirty years building a business.

• 1:04:24Jay Shetty?

  Totally, a hundred percent. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's why I said it.

• 1:04:27Lewis Howes?

  Just like, you hurt me, you lied to me, you didn't give me what I wanted, now I'm gonna take everything. No, everything. That's the way people think sometimes.

• 1:04:35Jay Shetty?

  No, definitely.

• 1:04:35Lewis Howes?

  Or I'm gonna make your life miserable.

• 1:04:37Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:04:37Lewis Howes?

  To get everything that I want.

• 1:04:39Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:39Lewis Howes?

  Interesting side note here, there's a famous couple, I'll just say in the last few years, so I won't give it away. Uh, but there's a famous couple that I've heard, uh, they had a prenup. And, um, it's a, and I'm hearing that it's a very clean divorce process.

• 1:04:59Jay Shetty?

  Because they had.

• 1:04:59Lewis Howes?

  That they've gone through because they had the prenup. And I think it was the woman's decision because she had a lot of money, right? So, um, as opposed to, it's already hard enough to go through a breakup. Just a, a romantic relationship. I can only imagine how much harder it is to go through a divorce. The pain, the sadness, the, the loss of memories and the identity and the, you have to split friendships now, all these things. If you have kids, like, the pain of a divorce must be tremendous.

• 1:05:30Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, a hundred percent. So, you know, we've talked about so many things today, and I feel like we've covered some really good ground. And by the way, me and Lewis are not sitting here as experts in this space. We're talking about our reflections, our thoughts, like our personal experiences, just being vulnerable. Because we think we want to encourage more vulnerable conversations, and I'm hoping that. We're hoping that this conversation is gonna make you talk to your partner, make you talk to your friends about these things and create agreements. Uh, but we wanna end on this last one and it's this idea, or even like a summarizing thought around whether we feel if we took these traditional gender roles that have been established over time away from our minds,

• 1:06:15Jay Shetty?

  would that actually improve our relationships? Or would it actually reduce our relationships?

• 1:06:20Lewis Howes?

  What do you think?

• 1:06:21Jay Shetty?

  My take is that I feel the conditioning of previous gender roles is what creates confusion.

• 1:06:32Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 1:06:32Jay Shetty?

  So the expectation that he should pay on the first date, or the expectation that we should share bank accounts, or the expectation that you should provide and I'll do this, it reduces the conversation that needs to happen. Because we make assumptions. And when you're making assumptions, you're no longer having agreements. If you didn't have assumptions, you get the opportunity to make agreements and say, let's talk about this, let's discuss it. Today, we don't discuss, we don't talk, we don't conversate.

• 1:07:01Lewis Howes?

  We have expectations too.

• 1:07:02Jay Shetty?

  We have expectations because they've been made up by someone fifty years ago.

• 1:07:05Lewis Howes?

  Who are probably divorced.

• 1:07:06Jay Shetty?

  Or, yeah, exactly, yeah.

• 1:07:07Lewis Howes?

  Who are stressed out, divorced, or whatever.

• 1:07:09Jay Shetty?

  Exactly, weren't happy. So that's, yeah, that's my take. It's as simple as that, that I think the conversation we've had today isn't about gender. It's about this idea of can you communicate? Can you connect? If that, that's what love is, the ability to have those awkward, uncomfortable conversations.

• 1:07:24Lewis Howes?

  Yes, courage is the key. Courage to know yourself and who you are, courage to know what you want. And not what you think you're supposed to have, or what your parents want you to have, but what you want. And courage to own the role and responsibility you wanna step in, the contribution you wanna step into. And communicate, this is who I am, this is who I wanna be, this is where I wanna go. Do you wanna be in this partnership with me? Do you wanna play this game? It's not a game of love, but you wanna play this game of life? It's like, we're doing this together. Are we gonna be good teammates? Are we gonna be in alignment on most things? Or if we're not, are we gonna be able to have cautious conflict? You know, and find ways to repair what you talk about so much on how to fight,

• 1:08:09Lewis Howes?

  which is one of the keys to you, figuring out how to have a healthy relationship. And if we can do that, I just think there's gonna be a lot more harmony and peace. And actual, you're gonna appreciate the person you're with more and more when you have these awkward courageous conversations with them.

• 1:08:25Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely, absolutely. And they never stop.

• 1:08:28Lewis Howes?

  Never stop.

• 1:08:29Jay Shetty?

  Never stop.

• 1:08:29Lewis Howes?

  What's the most awkward conversation you've had with Roddy recently? That, that you're like, man, I'm still, we're still in this like dance together. We're still having these conversations because you guys continue to evolve. What's the most recent awkward conversation?

• 1:08:43Jay Shetty?

  It's a habit that I have of asking these four check-ins. So I believe that every relationship should have four check-ins.

• 1:08:50Lewis Howes?

  Don't you do this on Sundays? When do you do this? Or quarterly?

• 1:08:53Jay Shetty?

  There's, there's different, yeah. So one's a daily check-in. And the daily check-in is, what was your highlight of today? Or what did you learn today? It allows you to have a moment of connection with that person, especially when you have a busy day and you don't see them all day. I have one, once a week, which is, uh, what do you have coming up this week? And how can I be aware of it? Let me just be aware of it. How can I help you with it? How can I assist you this week? What do you have coming up? Then I have one every quarter that says, what's your, oh no, this is, this is the awkward one. So the question every quarter is, is this relationship going in the direction you want?

• 1:09:30Lewis Howes?

  Ooh.

• 1:09:31Jay Shetty?

  If it's not, what are we willing to do for it?

• 1:09:34Lewis Howes?

  That's interesting.

• 1:09:35Jay Shetty?

  So that's the one that I ask every quarter because I think if you measure things yearly, a year is way too long a time. You can't measure it daily, because that's over analyzing it.

• 1:09:46Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:09:46Jay Shetty?

  But somewhere in the middle, there has to be that question of like, well, what's going, what's happening in the right direction? What are we willing to change? What, what do we need to change? How are we feeling about this? And I think that conversation is one that I never want to stop having, because that's the only way. If you've got to measure your business quarterly, why are we not measuring our relationships quarterly?

• 1:10:04Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:10:04Jay Shetty?

  You're looking at your numbers and your stats and you're analyzing and looking at the data, but there's no relationship data. Your relationship data is what you felt like on your wedding day or your first day. And you're still using 20-year-old data or five-year-old data for 2024 that's inaccurate.

• 1:10:20Jay Shetty?

  And then the final question once a year is, what are your goals this year? And how can I help you with that?

• 1:10:25Lewis Howes?

  That's beautiful, man.

• 1:10:25Jay Shetty?

  And so if those are your four check-ins, you can have a meaningful, thoughtful, and that's when you don't get surprises because you're checking in so often that you can tell the pattern with which the relationship's going. As opposed to like, one day, someone turns around after three years.

• 1:10:42Lewis Howes?

  I want a divorce.

• 1:10:43Jay Shetty?

  Totally.

• 1:10:44Lewis Howes?

  What?

• 1:10:44Jay Shetty?

  Whereas I'm hoping if you're with someone who's thoughtful, if you're checking in, they can at least give you signs.

• 1:10:50Lewis Howes?

  People would want to know, in the last 10 years, I won't make it recent, but in the last 10 years of your relationship, what was a surprising response that Roddy gave you? Where you thought, everything is fine, we're a great place, or I'm just living my life and everything's smooth? Where she said, actually, this is an area that I'd like to improve or us to take a different action on? Was there something in the last 10 years where she said in that awkward question? Were you like, I'm crushing in this relationship, she loves me, everything's great, like, I'm doing my thing?

• 1:11:21Jay Shetty?

  I think it was more a change, it wasn't even in the conversation. We, because of visas and other things, ended up spending more time than we ever anticipated apart a couple of years ago. And Roddy was stuck in London, I was stuck in the US, and we didn't see each other for nearly six months, probably. And that was a surprise because we didn't, A, anticipate that, like, it wasn't intentional, it happened because of rules and all that kind of stuff. And it wasn't something we wanted at the time. Like, we weren't like, oh yeah, we're busy, we'll take some, you know, it wasn't that. And spending that time apart was just a massive shock and surprise

• 1:12:05Jay Shetty?

  because we were at like our best before we ended up in this position. And I felt like that distance made us have to work so much harder because six months is a long time. And this is what I mean by the regular check-ins, it's what I mean by the constant communication, it's what we mean by these agreements. Like, that was not, that was a surprise to any of our agreements. That we would never have agreed to spend six months apart from each other. And sometimes things happen that you can't, you know, get around. And I think that that's when I said, like, When we come back, we need to make a, it was more me saying it, where I was like, we need to really make an effort to reconnect because you can't just assume that things are the same.

• 1:12:50Jay Shetty?

  That takes work. Yeah.

• 1:12:52Lewis Howes?

  Man, I love having these conversations with you. I know where, I know this was about love and money and we're going to be doing another episode on the different rules that, that women should be living by.

• 1:13:02Jay Shetty?

  Based on an old book.

• 1:13:03Lewis Howes?

  Based on an old book.

• 1:13:04Jay Shetty?

  Not mine.

• 1:13:06Lewis Howes?

  We're going to check and see if we think these rules live up to what women should be doing in, in modern dating, in modern relationships. So I'm excited about that, but uh, I love it. I get nervous having these conversations.

• 1:13:17Jay Shetty?

  So do I, man. So do I.

• 1:13:18Lewis Howes?

  What are people gonna think? But uh.

• 1:13:20Jay Shetty?

  That's what I'm thinking. Now everyone's gonna be like, Jay would never, he would make me son a pren, I don't know.

• 1:13:25Lewis Howes?

  I know, right?

• 1:13:26Jay Shetty?

  I'm not, do you know what? I'm, I'm like one of the most romantic love in love people that exists. I've just become more realistic as I've coached people, as I've worked with people, as I've seen.

• 1:13:38Lewis Howes?

  As if you made money too.

• 1:13:40Jay Shetty?

  Seen challenges, like you just, you start to see things.

• 1:13:43Lewis Howes?

  That's the interesting thing too. You know, I've heard, I mean, yeah, you start to see things and when you see a lot of people go through pain and like years of pain, after, when there's a divorce and there's years of pain and there's kids involved and there's money involved and then, then there's just sadness and hatred and it's like, you almost can see people beaten down.

• 1:14:01Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:02Lewis Howes?

  And you're like, how can we have conversa- awkward conversations beforehand to set ourselves up for more harmony and peace? Even if it doesn't work out, how can we make it a conscious uncoupling, the best possible way to do that?

• 1:14:15Jay Shetty?

  Totally.

• 1:14:15Lewis Howes?

  And I think you gotta have.

• 1:14:16Jay Shetty?

  That's another awkward therapy episode. We're doing a conscious uncoupling. Yeah, we'll take a look at that. Yeah, take a look at the book. It's the book, yeah.

• 1:14:22Lewis Howes?

  It's a book. I think there's conscious coupling, which people don't really talk about, and conscious uncoupling.

• 1:14:27Jay Shetty?

  I think we should do both.

• 1:14:28Lewis Howes?

  Talking about like how to enter a relationship consciously and how to plan to exit a relationship consciously, which is the most unromantic thing when you're 21, 24, you're broke and you're just like, I want to be with you forever and I love you. It's not the sexy romantic thing to talk about, but I think um. There's gotta be a way to do it, which is romantic.

• 1:14:49Lewis Howes?

  Totally.

• 1:14:50Lewis Howes?

  And which is feeling elevated. And so that'll be a future conversation.

• 1:14:54Lewis Howes?

  I'm excited, man.

• 1:14:55Lewis Howes?

  My man.

• 1:14:55Lewis Howes?

  Let's do it.

• 1:14:56Lewis Howes?

  I hope today's episode inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a rundown of today's show with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me as well as ad free listening experience, make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel on Apple Podcast. If you enjoyed this, please share it with a friend over on social media or text a friend. Leave us a review over on Apple Podcasts and let me know what you learned over on our social media channels, at Lewis Howes. I really love hearing the feedback from you and it helps us continue to make the show better. And if you want more inspiration from our world-class guests and content to learn how to improve the quality of your life,

• 1:15:36Lewis Howes?

  then make sure to sign up for the Greatness Newsletter and get it delivered right to your inbox over at greatness.com/newsletter. And if no one has told you today, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.