The WEALTH Expert: How I Built an $80 MILLION Business in a Weekend | Noah Kagan

Noah Kagan is a master in the art of entrepreneurship, currently leading AppSumo as its Chief Sumo, where he's driving over $80 million a year in revenue. He's not just a savvy business leader; he's also an influential mentor on his YouTube channel, guiding over a million subscribers towards the golden path of financial freedom. Before creating a massive impact with AppSumo.com, Noah was at the forefront of two major tech revolutions – he was the 30th employee at Facebook, working directly under Mark Zuckerberg, and the 4th employee at Mint.com. Noah is also the author of the groundbreaking book, 'Million Dollar Weekend: The Surprisingly Simple Way to Launch a 7-Figure Business in 48 Hours.' In a world where entrepreneurship is more accessible yet challenging than ever, Noah's insights are a game-changer. Buy his new book Million Dollar Weekend: The Surprisingly Simple Way to Launch a 7-Figure Business in 48 HoursSubscribe to Noah’s newsletter. In this episode you will learnThe essential steps to launching a 7-figure business in just 48 hours. The most common money myths blocking most people's success. Key insights into effective planning and execution techniques for rapid business growth. The difference between millionaires, billionaires, and everyone else. How to become more valuable and worthy in the job marketplace. For more information go to www.lewishowes.com/1572For more Greatness text PODCAST to +1 (614) 350-3960More SOG episodes we think you’ll love:George Kamel – https://link.chtbl.com/1568-podDave Ramsey – https://link.chtbl.com/1415-podVivian Tu – https://link.chtbl.com/1551-pod Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  Hey my friend, thank you so much for being here. And I wanted to ask you for a quick request before we get started with today's episode. Apple decided to shake things up a bit and you may no longer be following the School of Greatness, but luckily there's an easy fix. So really quick, if you can, double check for me that you're not missing out on greatness. Just go to your app on Apple Podcast and hit follow on the top right-hand corner of the School of Greatness show page on Apple Podcast. Once you click the follow button on the top right corner, you're all set to get updated with the latest in greatness here from the School of Greatness. And if you haven't already, make sure to leave a quick review while you're there. Your thoughts matter to me. I read all of the reviews and I'm so grateful that you're here. Thanks so much. Now let's jump into this episode.

• 0:40Speaker 01

  I worked directly for Zuckerberg, invented like Facebook status, you know, the thing that now is Twitter and Facebook. That was something I came up with. And it was probably one of the best experiences I've ever had in my life. I loved it. There's a lot I've learned from him. We put in a lot in the book. But it's also a blessing that I got fired super early to realize, okay, I'm not in control of my own destiny.

• 1:00Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 1:24Lewis Howes?

  Welcome back everyone at School of Greatness. Very excited about our guest, we'll be inspiring, Noah Kagan, my man. Good to see you.

• 1:30Speaker 01

  Good to see you. Been a long time on the internet.

• 1:32Lewis Howes?

  Been a long time working together, friends together, traveling, probably a lot of different online marketing events together and just, we've been supporters of one another for almost 15 years.

• 1:43Speaker 01

  It's been a long time.

• 1:44Lewis Howes?

  It's been amazing. We were just talking about this, how, you know, it's hard to sustain kind of like credibility, authority, and financial success consistently online. We've seen a lot of people come and go who've been like big and make a ton of money and then you don't hear about them for years. They have some scandal or they did some scam or something, or they didn't treat people well.

• 2:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:05Lewis Howes?

  And you've been consistent with what you've been doing with sumo.com and everything you've been up to. You've been building your YouTube channel, which has been blowing up for the last couple of years. And now you've got this amazing book called Million Dollar Weekend. The surprisingly simple way to launch a seven-figure business in 48 hours. And you talk about launching an $85 million business in a weekend. And I want to get to how people can launch, you know, an $85 million business in a weekend in a moment. But I'm curious first, what you think are the biggest myths around money and abundance?

• 2:44Lewis Howes?

  From everything you've learned, working with, you know, a big companies and under big CEOs to then launching your own business. What are the biggest myths holding people back and blocking their abundance and wealth?

• 2:57Speaker 01

  Being rich is great. Let's just start there and people realizing that it's accessible. Like I grew up middle class. I don't know. How did you grow up?

• 3:04Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, lower middle.

• 3:05Speaker 01

  Lower middle. And I, I believe when you get born in these kind of areas, we think we're stuck in these areas. And we think there's some guru or something that we don't have access to. And realizing that we can all get on that level is just the first shift that we can recognize. Be like, I can actually leave middle class if I want, and I can be rich and I can have whatever I want in life. So let's just start with that with money and money myth. I think a lot of people just think we're stuck in these, these phases. The other thing that has been fascinating is a money myth that I think people that want to get rich is that the best way to get rich is entrepreneurship. It's the best way to get rich. Like if you actually want to make a lot of money, look at all the different ways. Okay, I can do stocks. Okay, I can get a day job. Great. I can maybe do, uh, real estate. Okay, but actually probably the best thing is to start your own business.

• 3:50Speaker 01

  The upside of starting your own business is unlimited. And I think when more people realize that everyone should be an entrepreneur, whether you have a day job, whether you just want grocery money or whether you want weekend money. Being an entrepreneur just provides you one unlimited upside of money, but also just creative freedom that you are fully in control of. So I think those are some of the things that it's been an interesting experience in starting my own businesses, working for Zuckerberg, running app, suet.com, and now helping a lot of people with million dollar weekend.

• 4:13Lewis Howes?

  Right. The interesting thing is, you know, I love your newsletter. You've got a great newsletter.

• 4:17Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 4:18Lewis Howes?

  If people haven't subscribed, make sure to check it out. But you talked about recently, how you have become a real estate investor, but you've lost a bunch of money investing and owning real estate. And there's a lot of different people and talking about these different industries, how you can make a lot of money with stocks, how you can make a lot of money with real estate, how you can make a lot of money with launching a personal brand online, or creating a YouTube channel, or a podcast, or all these different things, right? They talk about the strategies on making millions doing these things. But you've also done some of these things and lost money. Like you've invested in stocks, you've invested in real estate, and it's more time, more hassle, more stress sometimes, right? And to counteract that, I think, what is it, 80% of businesses fail within the first

• 5:03Lewis Howes?

  five years?

• 5:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:05Lewis Howes?

  It's a lot of work being an entrepreneur. A lot of times, people lose money on their business or launching something. It's usually not the first business that does really well. It takes a few tries sometimes. So what do you say to people that say, talk about those stats of like, well, I've heard about my friend who invested in building their business and they just, they lost everything. And now I have this fear around that. What do you say to people that see the challenges that businesses have also?

• 5:33Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, I think that's a myth, that you need money to start a business. I started up similar with $48 in 48 hours, which is now doing about $80 million a year. And so there's a misconception that you need all this money to be able to actually create these things. And you could start any single business within a weekend, which everyone, you, me, everyone watching, has 52 of them.

• 5:53Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 5:54Speaker 01

  And you can do something in a weekend, actually see like, is this business gonna work? And if it doesn't, great. I have another weekend where I can use the million dollar weekend process to create something else.

• 6:02Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 6:02Speaker 01

  And what's interesting, though, is that most of the most successful people have the most failures.

• 6:09Speaker 01

  How many things have you started?

• 6:10Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 6:10Speaker 01

  Think about it. How many things you have had the LinkedIn? Remember the LinkedIn course?

• 6:13Lewis Howes?

  LinkedIn, man, LinkedIn.

• 6:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, the LinkedIn.

• 6:15Lewis Howes?

  Webinars.

• 6:16Speaker 01

  Webinars.

• 6:16Lewis Howes?

  Marketing, yeah, all that stuff. I had a sports networking site called SportsNetworker.com, Sports Executive Association. Now, all those things actually did okay, but none of them was like some big hit.

• 6:27Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 6:28Lewis Howes?

  And I also didn't love doing them after a certain period of time. They were great for a season, but not for a lifetime.

• 6:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:34Lewis Howes?

  And so I transitioned out of a lot of things that weren't like big things over a period of time or that weren't my, my vision or the thing I wanted to spend my time doing. So, but you learn a lot through those failures.

• 6:44Speaker 01

  Exactly. You can learn by doing these businesses that don't work and you, you swing, you experiment. And you're like, I want to try doing lawn care.

• 6:52Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 6:52Speaker 01

  I want to try being a content creator. I want to try an e-commerce business. I want to try a service business. I want to try creating a software business, whatever it is. And they keep adding up and you keep swinging, you keep practicing. And that leads you to the school of greatness, publishing in your Times or Cellar. But that's all these little experiences that you are in the arena, doing this business, experimenting, and then getting to that point where you're going to have success. Now, what's been the most shocking thing? This is the most shocking is that when people want businesses and everyone should be an entrepreneur, whether you want to make a million or whether you want to make grocery money. There's a lot of fear.

• 7:20Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, passive income on the side, weekend money, things like that.

• 7:23Speaker 01

  Yeah. And even in the real estate, you're commenting on real estate. The best real estate business is not to own real estate. It's to be a property manager or a cleaner of real estate. My property manager makes more than I do.

• 7:33Lewis Howes?

  And you own all these properties.

• 7:35Speaker 01

  I don't, and they're, they're not appreciating. Like people always appreciate, they're not appreciating. They're not cash flowing. And then I get problems like I had a leak yesterday, uh, last week. I had to do an HOA, um, had a new roof.

• 7:45Lewis Howes?

  You gotta spend an extra 10, 20 grand.

• 7:46Speaker 01

  And guess who's actually making all the money? The property manager or the cleaner. And so there are the ways of being in, starting your own business where you don't have to put up a lot of capital, take a lot of time, a lot of risk.

• 7:54Lewis Howes?

  You don't have any risk.

• 7:55Speaker 01

  Everyone should be an entrepreneur, which I do believe everyone should be. What's holding people back? There's so many YouTube videos, there's so many Udemy courses, there's so many books out there. So what is holding people back?

• 8:03Lewis Howes?

  What are those key things holding people back from making more money as an entrepreneur?

• 8:07Speaker 01

  The biggest thing holding them back from making more money is making $1. So this has been the shocking thing and the most surprising thing is I was putting together the book with Talra's. Most people just don't start. And so you started, what? How many years ago did you start swinging?

• 8:20Lewis Howes?

  2008.

• 8:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, you were on account.

• 8:22Lewis Howes?

  I got on 2007. I started like researching and trying stuff online, but 2008 is when I made my first hundred dollars. And I remember being blown away when a guy wrote me a check for a hundred dollars. I was helping him kind of for an hour redo his LinkedIn profile and kind of give him some tips as a friend. He was actually kind of a mentor of mine. Still is. His name is Frank Egan. And he afterwards, he just wrote me a check and said, this is yours. And I was like, you'll pay me for this? And he goes, you have no idea how many leads and customers I'll get from what you just taught me. And I go, really? It's like, wow, I had a big odd moment. I was like, oh, maybe I'll like help other people with their LinkedIn profile.

• 9:00Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 9:00Lewis Howes?

  Let me try to get more clients. Did that. Let me try to charge more. Let me, let me try to make a book out of this. Let me try to make a course out of this. I keep going down the path. And, and I learned through fail, success, all that stuff.

• 9:12Speaker 01

  I got fired very early and it was such a blessing. I lost a lot of money.

• 9:15Lewis Howes?

  Now, tell me this, now tell me this story because you were one of the first, what, 20 employees at Facebook?

• 9:20Speaker 01

  Thirty at Facebook.

• 9:21Lewis Howes?

  Number 30 at Facebook?

• 9:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:22Lewis Howes?

  So how many employees do they have now?

• 9:24Speaker 01

  Hundred thousand?

• 9:25Lewis Howes?

  Hundred thousand?

• 9:26Speaker 01

  Something like that.

• 9:26Lewis Howes?

  You were number 30?

• 9:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:27Lewis Howes?

  How long did you work at Facebook for?

• 9:29Speaker 01

  About nine months.

• 9:29Lewis Howes?

  Nine months.

• 9:30Speaker 01

  And then I got fired. And the thing I was going to say about starting and other people is that that was a huge realization that like, your job can be taken from you. And what do you do then? And that doesn't mean you have to have a big business, big entrepreneurship business, but get started. So one day, if you want to do it, great. If not, at least you have that option.

• 9:45Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 9:46Speaker 01

  And so that's a whole story where, you know, I worked directly for Zuckerberg, invented like Facebook status, you know, the thing that now is Twitter and Facebook. That was something I came up with. And it was probably one of the best experiences I've ever had in my life. I loved it. There's a lot I've learned from him. We put in a lot in the book. But it's also a blessing that I got fired super early to realize, okay, I'm not in control of my own destiny. So I probably need to figure out what is it I really want to do? And how do I get to do it myself?

• 10:09Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, you see a lot of companies right now laying off thousands of employees at a time, right? Big companies that are like laying off people. And these employees could be doing great work, but they're just like, oh, we just need to cut down costs.

• 10:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:23Lewis Howes?

  So you need to be thinking about that, you know, hopefully you're able to provide value to the company you're at, but also be thinking, you know, what are the skills that I could keep developing on this side as well?

• 10:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, one of the big breakthroughs in getting started, we talked about a myth, was that there's so many ordinary people getting rich. You know, we talked about the middle, the, the middle income. A lot of ordinary people are rich. You don't have, a lot of times it's just showing up and just getting started. So one of the biggest takeaways a lot of people have had is like, how do I get going now? Just today, like, so you want to be a YouTuber? Post a video. My first YouTube video, which is now at a million subs, is me shirtless. I know, I'm sure you've watched it a bunch of times, but it was.

• 10:56Lewis Howes?

  You need to talk.

• 10:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was basically me home, just a phone like everyone has, shirtless, just talking about business. I think a few hundred views. That was three years ago. And now we have like each video costs 20 to 30,000 dollars to make, but that, the point is I got started.

• 11:08Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 11:09Speaker 01

  And so, and an ordinary person or don't have ordinary, like extraordinary abilities, just get started and start, you know, each week you kind of commit to a little bit more, a little bit more. And then after 10 years, and you're a time bestseller book, huge shows, things like that, but it's about getting going and getting a dollar today. You can eventually get a larger business, gross your money, million dollar business to be on.

• 11:26Lewis Howes?

  Wow. I'm curious, you know, I've, I've heard you tell the story about working at Facebook a lot. I'm just curious, what would be the, the three biggest lessons you learned from your time working there? From learning, growing, earning, also like a lesson from getting fired, a lesson from just observing Zuckerberg. Like what would be your three overall lessons from your whole time there?

• 11:49Speaker 01

  It's emotional because I was like fired. It was so depressing. It was so sad, you know, and everyone, and it's not unique. Everyone's going, you, everyone watching has their own moment to say, what's their character? What's their hero's journey in their life? And it was hard, man. I was 10 years of depressed, just being like frustrated that they, they removed me.

• 12:04Lewis Howes?

  10 years depressed after.

• 12:06Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 12:06Lewis Howes?

  Fired?

• 12:07Speaker 01

  Big time. It was so much like of my drive that finally, you know, it just took so long to go to therapy and life coaches.

• 12:12Lewis Howes?

  It was a big part of your identity too.

• 12:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was everything. It was like Facebook, then myself, then my girlfriend, right? It was like in, in that order.

• 12:20Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 12:21Speaker 01

  But things that I was able to learn, and I was very lucky. I feel very lucky that I could be a part of it. It's something special in our society from how much this guy has done. I'd say probably top three things. Number one, he had a coach. And I just remember being shocked by that. And you know, we're 24 year old arrogant kids, you know, elite schools, right? I went to Cal, but then went to like Harvard, MIT and Caltech. And I remember looking at Mark one day and he had this like old lady sitting with them. I was like, who is that? Like, what are you doing, Mark? You're super smart, you know, like we listen to you.

• 12:50Lewis Howes?

  And you're building this next like revolution.

• 12:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. And he didn't talk about her much, but it was an interesting observation of success. So he had her around. He had Peter Thiel, you know, the founder of PayPal around. And so it was interesting that Mark, at a very early age, was recognizing, how do I get elite coaches? And this is something I've copied at appsumo.com. So how do I get them around me in different facets of where I'm weak?

• 13:13Lewis Howes?

  And how old were you then?

• 13:15Speaker 01

  24, 23.

• 13:16Lewis Howes?

  He was 24 as well, roughly? Wow, so you were the same age.

• 13:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:19Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 13:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I think that's a huge one.

• 13:21Lewis Howes?

  Getting coaching, mentorship, leadership around you.

• 13:23Speaker 01

  Mark was very focused. And let me give you a counter example to Mark. I met someone recently and he's like, I'm starting a business. And I was like, and I've been helping with this business. He actually has five customers. And so I talked with him two days ago. I text him like, how's it going? And he's like, great, I've got the customers, I'm doing the stuff, but I'm going to start an app. I was like, what do you mean you're starting an app? We just got this going, let's go do this. And Mark, on the other side of that, I remember going to him one day and I said, Mark, I want to sell, we need to make money at Facebook. We can't be, we gotta start making a lot of real money. And let's start selling tickets on Facebook and events. And he brought me in the room and he said, he wrote one word, which is growth. And then under he wrote a billion. And he's like, this is all I care. Wow. And think about, this guy's 24, by the way. We're 24 year olds and he was like, I'm going to get to a billion people and I don't do anything else besides that.

• 14:08Lewis Howes?

  No way.

• 14:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I remember at that time just being like, he is focused and he is very clear where he's going. And so for all of us out there, like, do you know where you're going? And so with appsumo.com, with my YouTube channel, with this book, it's like, do you have one clear goal with somewhat of a timeline? Like, most people are like, yeah, I want to be healthy. How healthy, buy one. And the more that you have clarity where you're going to go. I'd say lastly, what was really interesting.

• 14:33Speaker 01

  One of my new favorite phrases is like, put something on the calendar.

• 14:35Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 14:36Speaker 01

  Put something on the calendar. I love this phrase. And what it means is, do you have stuff you're looking forward to? Put it on the calendar. Do you not have something fun in your life? Put it on the calendar day. Go golfing, whatever it is. Roller blade.

• 14:45Lewis Howes?

  Plan that trip, whatever.

• 14:46Speaker 01

  But it is. It could be small. Go get ice cream. And what I, what was fascinating about Mark was how big his vision was and how he had this belief in something exciting on the calendar. He's like, we are going to connect the entire world.

• 14:57Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 14:59Speaker 01

  And, you know, coming back to all our lives, it's like, what's your exciting future? What's on the calendar that you're like, I want to go and do that kind of thing? And I remember, because he had Yahoo came, and this is why my boss got fired, the day I started.

• 15:13Lewis Howes?

  Who started, your boss got fired?

• 15:14Speaker 01

  I literally walked in and my boss walked out, my first day on the job. And what was fascinating though, was Mark was like, yeah, Yahoo just offered me a billion dollars. Not just someone to be like, I'm going to offer you a billion. He's like, no, I don't want a billion. He's like, I believe so much in where we're going and connecting the entire internet that I don't care about this money.

• 15:32Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 15:33Speaker 01

  And it was, it was really inspiring. And I know with AppSumo.com now, it's like promoting SaaS tools for solo printers. I'm like, there's some stuff I just really am excited to do. And it's finally realizing, recognizing, oh, there's something great about having something on the calendar, having something you're excited for your future. So that, yeah, I'd say those are some.

• 15:46Lewis Howes?

  That's incredible, man.

• 15:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:49Lewis Howes?

  We don't need to stay on Zuckerberg for that long, but I'm curious, you know, it's been, when did you get fired then?

• 15:56Speaker 01

  Two in a while.

• 15:57Lewis Howes?

  Two thousand nine, two thousand ten, when was it?

• 15:59Speaker 01

  No, two thousand five.

• 16:00Lewis Howes?

  Two thousand five.

• 16:01Speaker 01

  Two thousand six. So it's been seventeen years.

• 16:04Lewis Howes?

  Seventeen years ago.

• 16:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:05Lewis Howes?

  Okay. I have no idea what your relationship, I don't know if you've spoken to him ever again since then or what, but you've probably observed him for the last seventeen years. What would you say are the three biggest things you've learned from Mark Zuckerberg in the last seventeen years since leaving Facebook? Just observing him.

• 16:24Speaker 01

  You commented earlier how we're still around. I'd say number one is that it's easy to make one good decision. It's hard to make a good decision over many years. And I will say he's made, he's been able to stick around for now twenty years almost.

• 16:36Lewis Howes?

  He's made more good decisions than bad.

• 16:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:39Lewis Howes?

  Over a long period of time.

• 16:40Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I find that really fascinating. I'd say the negatives, I would actually say are the other two, which is, I think because there's a success bias, because he thinks he's successful, everything he does is success. And so I think you kind of miss out on the actual customer. So in all business, you're really having a customer that you talk to and you see if you can help them.

• 16:59Speaker 01

  I know there's more that people are trying to sell you, but really that's it at the end of the day. And I think with Oculus and some of the things he's building, it's there's a disconnect from what the actual customer wants. Like I've used Oculus, it's fine. I used it for a few days and then I got rid of it.

• 17:09Lewis Howes?

  It's more trying to force something that people don't want.

• 17:12Speaker 01

  Yes. So I think there's that, that I would say I've observed in him. And I'd say the third thing that's kind of interesting is his best successes have been what other people have created.

• 17:22Lewis Howes?

  Instagram.

• 17:22Speaker 01

  Instagram and WhatsApp, even Oculus, I was Palmer Lucky. So one of the things in business, which is really fascinating is you only need one hit to succeed.

• 17:29Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 17:30Speaker 01

  You only need one hit dude, which is crazy. I mean, like I tried, I think it was like 20 to 25 businesses until appsumo.com. And that was a hit and it worked right away. And there's things that you can do to increase those chances. But for him, he literally had one hit, it worked.

• 17:44Lewis Howes?

  It was a big hit though.

• 17:45Speaker 01

  And it was a big hit.

• 17:45Lewis Howes?

  It was a massive hit.

• 17:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a massive hit, but I think.

• 17:48Lewis Howes?

  Then you have the attention, the leverage, the relationships where you can acquire or bring other people under your umbrella.

• 17:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. And so I think the thing is for anyone, like get going, keep swinging, keep experimenting, get going now. Just one hit and you could have either the business or the relationship or whatever is you want in life, but you kind of have to be playing the game and you have to be in it.

• 18:07Lewis Howes?

  Who's the most inspiring entrepreneur today in your mind that inspires you?

• 18:11Speaker 01

  I would say Bezos to me is like the epitome of just like entrepreneurship. And also it might sound strange, I also really admire that he gave it up a little bit.

• 18:20Lewis Howes?

  That he stopped.

• 18:21Speaker 01

  Well, he's, there's this kind of drive in society and I've interviewed a lot of billionaires on my channel and a lot of them seem unhappy. They seem unhappy, like I tried to get all this money and I sacrificed my family. We asked one of the questions like, was it worth it? Do you regret it? And almost, I can read between the lines. And there's only a few, John Paul DeJoria from Patron was the one I was like, okay, this guy's, he's, he's content. He's, he's seems to be a kind person and not to knock any of the other people. And maybe they have their own definition, just my own observation of it. And.

• 18:51Speaker 01

  I think with the fact that he was so unique in how he approached business in a lot of different ways, like the customer-first mentality that he had versus founder-first, which is what Zuckerberg's doing. He was customer-first. How he thought about the business models where he had one business model, which is e-commerce. But he's like, maybe I can take that, things we're creating internally, like AWS, create another product, create Kindle. He was willing to fail. So many of us are afraid of failure. That's why in the book, the whole first section is how do we get more comfortable failing?

• 19:16Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 19:17Speaker 01

  And making it fun. And then as well, I respect, I mean, with him and his wife, don't know about that. That's private stuff. But I do respect, it does seem like you look at him now, he's like, yeah, I've worked really hard. I want to go to space and I want to relax and enjoy life with my new partner. And I think there's just something admirable where I think most people are like, well, I got to keep making more because that's the expectation of me.

• 19:35Lewis Howes?

  Even though he's one of the richest people in the world, he doesn't need to make more.

• 19:38Speaker 01

  Exactly. And I think it's admirable that he was like, I'm going to pass this on because this is where I'm done at this point. And maybe I'll come back or not. So I think people like him, there's a guy I interviewed recently, Larry Janeski. I just like these people that they work on something for a very long period of time and they seem content. And they're like, I like what I'm doing. I'm doing it for a long period of time and I get a balance making money. Because I think there's this idea, you have to only make money and not live. And that's why I left Silicon Valley. Because I was like, I don't want to care about how many employees or how much funding or how big a business is. I want to be able to live life.

• 20:07Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 20:07Speaker 01

  Studying Larry Janeski, he has a $600 million basement business out on the East Coast.

• 20:12Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 20:13Speaker 01

  And so he's like, I texted him a few weeks ago, he's like, did the Baja 1000? And then when I interviewed him for the show, he's not on his phone the whole time. He's hanging out, running like a nine-figure company.

• 20:23Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 20:23Speaker 01

  So those are kind of people, I think it's longevity. I think it's balance of life. I think it's they're approaching things and they're okay failing in these things.

• 20:31Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's fascinating. I love the content when you put it out because it's always like you on a private jet of some stranger that you like ask, can I come in your jet and interview you? Or, you know, you on the street fighting billionaires and billionaires. I'm curious, what is the difference between millionaires and billionaires and everyone else?

• 20:49Speaker 01

  Every billionaire has a few different things, but I'd say the two most common things between a millionaire to billionaire, most billionaires picked one thing. Just one thing. Let's just go, I mean, Bob Menkew created Ethernet, pretty big deal. John Paul DeJory, he created two billion-dollar companies, Hair Care and Patron Tequila. Michael Hudner did ships.

• 21:10Speaker 01

  And all of them just have one thing that they focused on and most of us were like, well, I'm gonna do real estate and then I'm gonna do a little content and then I'm gonna try to e-commerce business.

• 21:17Lewis Howes?

  I'm gonna have seven passive income streams.

• 21:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't. And so for me, as I've gotten older, I'm only doing AppSumo. It's like I have a book. Oh, well, my girlfriend and our baby, that's number one. And then it's like AppSumo, number two, my business. And then I, yes, I get to do YouTube, which I love making content similar to you. And I have a book where I'm teaching other people how I did what I did.

• 21:33Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 21:34Speaker 01

  And I love that they did one thing. I think the second thing that's probably not recognized is they're in billion dollar markets. They're in billion dollar opportunities. So what's a billion dollar opportunity? Honestly, this is gonna sound silly, but like lawn care. How many lawns are out there? You have a lawn?

• 21:49Lewis Howes?

  I have like a fake yard, yeah. It's a lot of water here in California, so yeah.

• 21:54Speaker 01

  True. Do you have a pool?

• 21:56Lewis Howes?

  I do, yeah. Pool care.

• 21:57Speaker 01

  And how much do you pay your pool care person?

• 21:58Lewis Howes?

  Oh, a hundred bucks a...

• 22:00Speaker 01

  It's a week?

• 22:00Lewis Howes?

  Weekly, yeah.

• 22:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, so 400 bucks a month.

• 22:02Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 22:03Speaker 01

  So that's $5,000 a year.

• 22:04Lewis Howes?

  You get 50 pools, it's like, hey.

• 22:06Speaker 01

  That's a million dollar opportunity. And then so you realize like pools and certain things like can be billion dollar markets. And most people, and this is something I had to recognize through...

• 22:13Lewis Howes?

  The boring businesses.

• 22:14Speaker 01

  Boring businesses is not, and it's not just boring, it's just billion dollar opportunities. Like, and Jean-Paul de Joura was a great one that I found fascinating because he's like, find something that's in the reorder business too. So not just a billion dollar market, like shampoo, billion dollar market. But people need to buy your product over and over and over again. And so I think there's something fascinating is that a billion dollar market is a product that people need, like pool care. Doesn't have to just be tech. I come from the tech world, but there's a lot of different businesses out there to be creating. Like, you can make money in a lot of different ways. And that's been also fascinating with talking to all these people.

• 22:44Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 22:44Speaker 01

  From ships to basements, like there's just so many different ways.

• 22:48Lewis Howes?

  Right, a lot of ways. I'm curious, I think it was one of the interviews I saw from you where you're interviewing some guy, maybe you'll remember who this is. And you ask him like, what's your definition of success? And he said something like... As an adult, my adult kids still want to hang out with me on their own. Not because I have money, but because they just like me.

• 23:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:09Lewis Howes?

  And I was like, man, that really hit me. And was that from your?

• 23:13Speaker 01

  The founder of FedEx.

• 23:14Lewis Howes?

  The founder of FedEx?

• 23:15Speaker 01

  Kinkos, Kinkos.

• 23:16Lewis Howes?

  Kinkos?

• 23:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:17Lewis Howes?

  So do you remember what that was or what that question was? I don't know if that was the exact question or what he said, but do you remember that?

• 23:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, I remember him. The other person I think of when I think of success, I asked the founder of Strava. You know Strava? It's a cycling tracking app. It's like social networking for cyclists. And this is the most unique one. I don't know, I don't think he's a billionaire, which is totally great. He's still doing really well. It's an amazing app, big business. And I asked him, I was like, what's success? He's like, not waking up to an alarm. That one's I never forgot because it's such a, it means you have freedom of your time. You're a time millionaire. And the fact that you're like, I can wake up whenever I want and do the things I really want in my day. That is, to me, I like, okay, I like that level of success.

• 23:53Lewis Howes?

  That's interesting. Yeah. And the other guy was the founder of Kinkos or?

• 23:57Speaker 01

  It's founder of Kinkos. And yeah, I mean, what was shocking about his story, he sold his company 2.4 billion? Became a billionaire. And the disappointing part, he was awesome. I really admire him. Mr. Ophelia. But he said he was stressed for 34 years. He's like, every [bleep] day I'm stressed.

• 24:16Lewis Howes?

  Building back business.

• 24:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. He's like, is it going to work? I'm going to have a payroll. Do I have to do this thing? I have to fly that stuff. And I remember just being like, I don't want that. And that's the coolest part about life. I can look at Lewis, I can look at Noah, I can check him out. I can be like, whose haircut do I want to try? And guess what? You create your own. You take all these different ones and you get to piece together the haircut you want to actually wear.

• 24:35Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 24:36Speaker 01

  So I like seeing that. And I was like, I don't want to live that life. I'm happy making less money, but doing it the way I want.

• 24:40Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. But for 20 years, you lived a certain level of life, building your business, making money. And there was anxiety and stress around that for a long time. Right?

• 24:54Lewis Howes?

  When did you realize like, okay, this level of stress and, you know, emotional overwhelm and just like always needing to get bigger and bigger and bigger. When did you realize that no longer works for you? And that you wanted to shift it?

• 25:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:11Lewis Howes?

  Maybe you knew from the beginning it doesn't work, but you were still doing it. But when did you realize, okay, this is not how I want to live the rest of my life?

• 25:18Speaker 01

  Yeah. What I, for me, I'm 41 and I think you have to be stressed in your twenties. If you, there, there's a part of stress that's good. It's not always a bad thing. I think, so you had the book out there, Upside of Stress. So in your twenties, you're figuring out your life and you're just working your stuff. You don't know really what's happening. And then in your thirties, you're kind of a little more clear, like, okay, I like maybe YouTube. I like promoting products. And then your forties, you're, for me, I find it calm. And that just takes time to find out who we really are and be patient with some process that eventually we will figure it out. And for me, COVID, I would say, is when I finally found more peace.

• 25:50Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 25:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:51Lewis Howes?

  When most people found more stress, you found peace. Why did, why did COVID bring you peace?

• 25:56Speaker 01

  Because I recognized that how I was approaching business, I had a plan. I was like, here's what we're going to be doing. Here's our budget, here's our business, and I have a plan that I can follow. So that was part one. And part two was, I didn't really like how I was living. I was engaged and it didn't work out.

• 26:10Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 26:11Speaker 01

  Yeah. You know, I had, my business partner had a line he was recommend, he said to me, he's like, are you getting what you're getting or are you getting what you want?

• 26:18Lewis Howes?

  From the relationship?

• 26:19Speaker 01

  Yeah. Not, not for me as a business partner.

• 26:21Lewis Howes?

  Right, right, right.

• 26:22Speaker 01

  Shout out Chad, he's amazing.

• 26:23Lewis Howes?

  From the, so you're engaged, maybe there were some ups and downs and you weren't like fully clear.

• 26:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 26:29Lewis Howes?

  And he asked you that question?

• 26:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:30Lewis Howes?

  Are you getting what you're giving?

• 26:32Speaker 01

  Are you getting what you want?

• 26:33Lewis Howes?

  And what was the answer?

• 26:34Speaker 01

  I'm not getting what I want. And that's hard, right? I think most of us, this is the thing I've noticed about advice, especially watching interviews and interviewing people, most of us know the truth and they know, we know our truth. It's just hard and we don't want to accept it.

• 26:45Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 26:46Speaker 01

  And everyone has courage. Like I did this ayahuasca thing, which I know is more common now, but I did it years ago and courage to me was I was afraid of it.

• 26:54Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 26:54Speaker 01

  But I did it anyways. And then I was still scared and there was a whole crazy story about this, but coming out of it, I was like, oh, I realize I can do hard things and all of us can do hard things, but we have to face the hard thing.

• 27:03Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 27:04Speaker 01

  And we all have it in us. And so for me, with breaking up with the fiance, which was tough and I do.

• 27:08Lewis Howes?

  What was that like?

• 27:10Speaker 01

  That was probably one of the more bigger regrets in my life.

• 27:14Speaker 01

  That I didn't do it sooner because I wasted her time, wasted my time.

• 27:18Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's tricky.

• 27:20Speaker 01

  It was two years of just like back and everyone's gone through this. It's not unique for me, but it was two years of, okay, let's try to make it work, but I know I'm not really good for you and I don't feel good about myself. And so it was like, eventually when COVID happened, that was, that was kind of our, we had some, some issues that went down and I was like, I can't do this. Like I can't spend, it was the specific thing I thought was like, do I want 40 more years of this?

• 27:42Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man. Yeah.

• 27:44Speaker 01

  That was, it was tough and I-

• 27:45Lewis Howes?

  It's interesting. I asked myself a question in a previous relationship before. I think Esther Perel said something like, can you see yourself having 10,000 meals with this person?

• 27:58Lewis Howes?

  Like, if you're gonna have 10,000 meals with a person, do you see yourself enjoying those meals, having fun? Or is it more stressful?

• 28:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I mean, all that added up. I mean, even doing like this book, Million Dollar Weekend or YouTube and stuff, nothing was wrong, but she is not, with our relationship, she did not get excited. Like, I want to go to YouTube. I like attention. And my partner now with Martha, she's like, go on YouTube, have fun with Louis. Like she's, and for me that worked. My actual partner that's better. And so with COVID, it was like having a plan in business, breaking up with the fiance. And then I think the other part that was kind of interesting is experimenting with life. This isn't a business, it's an experiment. It's all an experiment. It's a game.

• 28:34Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 28:35Speaker 01

  And I experimented just different ways of living. I experimented finally living kind of rich. Like I had money, but I never enjoyed it.

• 28:42Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 28:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. I think we're all taught that money can't buy happiness and that you're like, if, you know, you shouldn't be buying these things and don't live this way. And most of the ones who are showing that stuff are actually probably not, don't have the money for it. I know I'm poor, but like, they probably don't have the money.

• 28:54Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 28:54Speaker 01

  Most poor people don't, most rich people don't even be posting about it.

• 28:56Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 28:57Speaker 01

  And so I started, I rented a Malibu beach house. I rented a lake house in Austin. I started doing these things. I got like an RV for a month and I just kind of like drove around and like hung out in the RV and I was like, wow, having some, a nicer space to live, it makes me feel a lot better. And so those kind of things led me in a direction where, single for a while, started doing dating coaches. Had a business plan that I was executing for AppSumo, so I felt in control of the business. And then I felt like I'm actually gonna start taking care of myself. And then I also felt like I could take care of others then too, as I was feeling better about myself. And that, I think the past three years, I've felt much, just been much calmer.

• 29:34Lewis Howes?

  What has money and relationships taught you about when you've been in a relationship that you weren't fully sure of? Was gonna work out? What was your views around money during that time? Were you more anxious and stressed? Were you more abundant thinking? Like, where were you at with money?

• 29:50Speaker 01

  It's easy to be abundant when you have money. I'll tell you that. It's hard when you, and that's what most people, they're struggling with money. That's why I'm like, let's talk about entrepreneurship. Cause that's a way of you can change in your situation, which everyone can do. And I had a friend who said, no, you're here and you're here where you wanna be. And it's actually closer than you think. It's close, and I was like, really? He's like, yeah, it's much closer than you think.

• 30:10Lewis Howes?

  You thought it was a bigger gap?

• 30:11Speaker 01

  I thought it's a gap. I thought there's something, I don't know. I thought there's something outside. And it's something I think we're both, as we've gotten older, it's all inside.

• 30:17Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 30:17Speaker 01

  Just being kinda like, hey, it's okay.

• 30:19Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, of course.

• 30:20Speaker 01

  Now, with my ex, it was not that there was a good or bad thing about money. It was just how we treated each other with it. Like, I didn't really spend a lot of money on myself.

• 30:29Lewis Howes?

  So what did you do with your money? Cause you were making money every year? Was it just compounding on a bank account? Was it in stocks? What were you doing?

• 30:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, my father built his own business and then lost it to drugs and alcohol. And it was, it was a sad, like, that's definitely for me. I think a lot of, a lot of men, we want our fathers to recognize us. And I was fortunate, I have a great mom and a great stepfather. But for me, that, that father attachment.

• 30:47Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 30:49Speaker 01

  And I think with, growing up with Jewish parents candidly, like, we're taught to be very frugal. We're taught to be very practical. And it's just like, go make money. And that, that's a thing. Versus like, alright, how do you enjoy life? And I think with my ex, it wasn't, she kinda made me feel bad about it. Like, why don't you spend money? Or, we go to the airports, like, five dollars for a bottle of water. I'm like, I'm gonna go to the bathroom and drink from the faucet. Like, or like, I'm just like, five bucks, it's fine, I don't care. And there's still times, but over time, you start spending in different things. Like, I bought a fancy Jaguar. I had so much regret on it.

• 31:19Lewis Howes?

  Yes, you did?

• 31:20Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, I hated it. I hated it. I, dude, I, oh, man, it was the worst. Cause I don't care about nice cars. I have a 2004 Miata.

• 31:27Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 31:27Speaker 01

  I just got a new Vespa.

• 31:28Lewis Howes?

  There you go.

• 31:29Speaker 01

  That's a second. And I do, I do have a, I have a Model Y, but it was not important to me. And I think that was interesting, where she wasn't, and for both of us, she wasn't like, hey. She was like, you're being cheap. Okay, you know, it kind of like felt deflated versus, and it was like, hey, why don't we, you know, do you want to try spending these things? Could we rent it for a day?

• 31:45Lewis Howes?

  Right, right, right.

• 31:46Speaker 01

  So I think there was ways of actually being more positive to each other with money.

• 31:49Lewis Howes?

  Right, wow. Do you believe in practicing gratitude and manifesting and the law of attraction? And if so, has that, has that helped you attract more in the life you want?

• 32:03Speaker 01

  I'll tell you the part that's counterintuitive for me. So every day I write down something I'm grateful. And almost everything I'm grateful for is silly. Like, to me, it's like, I'm grateful for electricity. I'm grateful for water.

• 32:12Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 32:12Speaker 01

  Hot water.

• 32:13Lewis Howes?

  I'll leave that study, man.

• 32:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, those are the ones, those are the ones I really love because it's, it's available and it's not realizing how great life really is for all of us. It really, I mean, if you're able to watch this, life's probably pretty good.

• 32:23Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 32:23Speaker 01

  Doesn't make me feel good in this moment, or you don't have the money, but that's also something you could change.

• 32:29Speaker 01

  In terms of having, candidly, I don't think I always felt worthy.

• 32:34Lewis Howes?

  Of what?

• 32:35Speaker 01

  Of like, having certain things, like having a wife, or having a partner, or having a kid. And even with Facebook and stuff like that, I felt like, well, Zuck fired me, I'm not worthy of having a business.

• 32:44Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 32:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, I felt like, oh, this guy knows something better than I don't. And I think a lot of us feel that way, like, oh, these other people have these things. Am I actually worthy of this stuff? And how do we, you know, you talk about gratitude and vision. I think everyone can spend more time just being grateful for themselves. And how do we just actually give more kindness to ourselves? So one thing that I work on, anytime I'm kind of criticizing myself, it's like, alright, let's say one nice thing. And it kind of, what's crazy is you do that enough times, like criticize, nice thing, criticize. And we are literally the meanest people in the world to ourselves. Like, you know, your worst friend is yourself. And so how do you change that relationship over time? And now it's just kind of like, throughout my day, I'm like, dude, good job. Like, hey, you hung out with Louis, great job. And the more that we start doing those things, I think that's a way that, yes, you can manifest other things. But it's just really, how do we work on being nice to ourselves?

• 33:29Speaker 01

  And that, that's really helped over time.

• 33:31Lewis Howes?

  So it sounds like you were pretty self-critical and you didn't feel like you had self-worth, or feel like you were worthy for a long time building AppSumo.

• 33:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:39Lewis Howes?

  But you still built an 85 million dollar business, feeling unworthy, feeling underqualified, and not fully loving and accepting yourself, is that right?

• 33:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:49Lewis Howes?

  On a scale of one to 10 of self-worth, where would you say you were for most of those years? The first 10 years of building AppSumo?

• 33:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:57Lewis Howes?

  One being you have very little self-worth and don't believe you're deserving of any of it. The money, the success, the love. And 10 being you're deserving of all that. Where were you for most of those years?

• 34:08Speaker 01

  Literally until probably the past year, it was just very low. Like, it's still, let's talk about the book. No, no, this is good.

• 34:19Speaker 01

  Man, probably until literally like two years ago.

• 34:23Speaker 01

  Maybe fours, threes, fours.

• 34:25Lewis Howes?

  Threes and fours.

• 34:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, like I was getting partners that would, that liked me just because that's what I got. And then with AppSumo, I think I had this fear I'm going to ruin this business. So I, I tried to pass it off and not do it. And even with this book, I had to go through my own journey of, okay, I'm going to hire Tal Ross, the, one of the best business writers in the world, and I don't have to face myself. And when, when all of us face these hard things in life, whether it's writing a book, whether it's a relationship, whether it's starting, putting yourself out there a little bit. And you face some of the fears and you start just even small, the smallest thing. And you're like, maybe I am worthy, maybe I can do these things. And with AppSumo, when the previous CEO quit and I came back to work, I definitely was like, I'm ruining this business.

• 35:07Speaker 01

  I'm messing, and I did make a lot of mistakes, but I just stayed with it and I had great people around me. And so over time now, I'm like, and I get feedback. One of the easiest things that anyone could do to improve right now, really literally right now is text someone, how can I get better? Whether it's in your relationship, just ask your partner, whether it's at work as an employee or as a founder. And so it was just through working with people, getting feedback over time now, I'm like, pretty good at this. I used to always, this is, I haven't really talked about this. It sounds small, I used to always call myself Chief Sumo because I never wanted to be a CEO. I never thought I was the right leader. And in the past 18 months, two years now, I'm the CEO.

• 35:39Speaker 01

  And so maybe for others out there, how are we labeling ourselves?

• 35:41Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 35:42Speaker 01

  And what are maybe small steps, not, they don't have to be big, like I have to go some dramatic thing, that I can just do that makes me feel good about myself, that moves me in that direction. Same with the relationship where I didn't, I went, I worked with Stephanie Rig. She's a woman out of Australia, great on Instagram, really great content. And a lot of what we talked about was like, what are you doing that makes you feel good about yourself? Like you drank last night, how did that make you feel? Like you're doing this type of activity, like you're going on this date with a girl you don't want. How'd that make you feel? Like you're showing now with my partner Mafe, it's like, how am I showing up for her? Am I actually aligning my priority to my behavior? And every time I do that, I'm like, like I cooked her some food two weeks ago. I was like, proud of myself. I'm glad I could take care of you. Yeah, I was really proud of myself.

• 36:25Speaker 01

  And all of us feel these different ways. It's not like some exclusive club where everyone's always feeling happy.

• 36:31Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 36:31Speaker 01

  Right, but it's doing things that make us feel good about ourselves that frankly, it's all within our control. I think over years, you realize it's not external validation. It's like, how do we get more of the internal validation than that internal person that's like, hey, I'm doing pretty damn good myself and that's okay.

• 36:44Lewis Howes?

  Man, this is beautiful. I'm so glad you're talking about this. Have you seen the movie Creed 3?

• 36:51Speaker 01

  I've seen one or two. I don't know if I've seen three.

• 36:52Lewis Howes?

  Creed 3 was the most recent one. Anyway, long story short about it, Adonis Creed, he's that world champion and all these things. Has all the money, he's in the Hollywood hills, like living the dream, you know? Most famous guy in sports, whatever it is. And he's kind of depressed. He's like, not boxing anymore. He's not like, just kind of sitting around depressed. And someone from his past comes into his life out of prison, right? Someone from his past comes. And there was some darkness that they both went through, which caused this person to go to prison. That Adonis, the main character, never faced.

• 37:34Lewis Howes?

  And he was kind of always running from his pain, his past. You talked about facing yourself. I'm curious, what was the thing that you had to face that was the hardest thing in the last couple of years? That allowed you to have more peace and more freedom in yourself? And around money, love and relationships?

• 37:52Speaker 01

  Different things, man. It doesn't happen all at once. Like even taking Million Dollar Weekend as an example, you know, I've worked for Zuckerberg. I helped start Mint.com. Like I've started so many different businesses that have made millions of dollars and I still felt afraid. Like, can I put a book out there that people actually want? And can I actually even help them? And so I thought by hiring someone who's like the best around the world, I cold emailed him. It's like, can you work on me with this book? He's like, sure. And so I paid him money. And I was like, okay, good. At least I don't have to do it. I don't have to face myself to see if I can actually write a book.

• 38:21Speaker 01

  And then as the book got closer to having to submit the manuscript, as you know it goes, I was like, this is not, I have to face myself with this book. I have to see if I can really do it. What did you not face? Actually, writing a lot. We wrote the book together, but it was like, is this the book that I want to put my name on? Is this a book that I can say, hey, if you're trying to start a business, there's some things about starting, building and growing that I can help you with? And so I had to face the book. I had to face myself in actually writing the book. And yes, I worked on it lightly, but at a distance. And I think a lot of us do that. It's like, okay, well, let me avoid that thing. Let me avoid the relationship. Let me maybe avoid the work. And so then I basically like, I don't know if I'd call it hermit mode, but basically like sat in my room and more or less for about a month, just like heads down, worked with beta readers.

• 39:05Speaker 01

  And then I was like working on the scripts and all these things. And I was like, slowly, and then I was going with people. So every week, we have five people going through the book and a guy living at my house. Wow. About a month ago. And through doing it, I was like, oh, I can do this. I can do this. This works. And that's, we all feel that. We all feel that in a lot of different ways, maybe in a relationship. Maybe it's with work, maybe it's with ourselves. And so kind of this, this concept lately I've been really, really embracing is like, what's the hard thing I'm avoiding? And how do I go into that? So I voted the book for a while of it. And then I was like, no, I'm gonna go full in. Same with AppSumo CEO. I didn't want to do it.

• 39:39Speaker 01

  I didn't want to do it. I wanted someone else to do it. And same thing, he quit when I was on a bike ride. I was biking across America. And he quit and I didn't want to come back. And one of my best friends was like, well, who's paying for the bike trip? I was like, AppSumo? He's like, well, you should probably, and the guy who's running it doesn't want to be there. So I came back and had to face that. And you know, the same experience, like it's surprising how much more afraid of things. And when you finally do it, and like, it wasn't as hard as I thought. Right. And I'm much more capable than I realized. And that's true for everyone. Right. And it's just thinking about what these things are. Wow. What's, what's been scarier? Recommitting to owning?

• 40:18Lewis Howes?

  Your CEO role in a business that you helped build, coming back to that and taking ownership? Or getting out of a relationship that wasn't working to enter a new relationship? And now have a baby on the way?

• 40:33Speaker 01

  They're both insanely hard, both insanely hard.

• 40:36Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 40:37Speaker 01

  AppSumo is definitely some of the hardest work I've ever done. And I'd say by being an entrepreneur, though, I feel lucky. I feel like it's the hardest thing, but this is the part that I think I'm assuming you can resonate with. The things that are the hardest for us are also on the other side of that, the things we're most proud of.

• 40:53Speaker 01

  We're never not proud of ourselves when we do something hard for ourself. And I'm really proud of my work at AppSumo where I'm like, damn, I'm showing up. And so for everyone out there, whether you're doing YouTube, whether it's religion, whether it's sports, whether it's a business, like, how are you showing up or in your partner? And the same thing with my partner where it's been a challenge. You know, I'm flying to Spain, I'm staying up till 10, 11 PM to work Spain hours so that I can be with her.

• 41:17Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 41:17Speaker 01

  And now that she's pregnant, it's like, okay, am I really showing up in the relationship for what she needs? And that's lately, it's been awesome. It's been, I'm happy to show up for those things, but it's been, it's been a journey to get to that point.

• 41:27Lewis Howes?

  What's the biggest thing that's shifted inside of you since knowing you have a kid on the way?

• 41:33Lewis Howes?

  Around your habits, around your business, around time allocation, around everything?

• 41:39Speaker 01

  Okay, this is, this is the one that's gonna be, that's not what you're expecting. It's how much respect I have for moms.

• 41:44Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 41:44Speaker 01

  Shout out to all the moms, dude. The moms like, wow, dude, it is tough.

• 41:49Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 41:49Speaker 01

  It is tough. Uh, that's been one of the biggest, holy, because we have, you know, we have four or five moms at AppSumo that are moms already and they're pregnant moms.

• 41:58Lewis Howes?

  I know.

• 41:59Speaker 01

  And what they go through? That's been, I have, you know, I think in life, you have to understand or go through things to have more empathy for that.

• 42:06Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 42:07Speaker 01

  And so I have so, and you know, it's been so hard on Mafe. And I admire how strong she is, because I don't think I can handle what you're going through. So I definitely have a lot more admiration for working moms or even stay at home moms. Like, staying at home mom is probably one of the most underappreciated jobs in the world. And that's been probably one of the bigger shifts. I think a lot of the things, I mean, probably the other side of that, maybe from a professional side is also like, okay, what's really my priority?

• 42:33Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 42:34Speaker 01

  What's really my priority? Am I saying is apps similar my priority? Is my book my priority? Is YouTube? And it's like, no, my family. And that honestly, I didn't know I was supposed to, I was allowed to have a family.

• 42:42Lewis Howes?

  Wow. What do you mean you weren't allowed to have a family?

• 42:44Speaker 01

  I don't know, dude. Did you just think you're supposed to have a kid? I just thought like, you know, kind of even business, like, am I allowed to be rich? Am I allowed to have a great family? And you talk about manifesting and visioning. I just didn't know that I was allowed to have these things.

• 42:55Lewis Howes?

  Did you not have a good family growing up?

• 42:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, pretty good.

• 42:58Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, but you didn't think you could create a family?

• 43:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, I thought I was supposed to have it by 30. And when it didn't happen at 30, I was like, I guess it's not supposed to happen. And that was tough. And it comes back to feeling worthy of ourselves. And so I worked with Stephanie Rig, I go to therapy. And over time, I'm like, oh, maybe I can actually be with a great partner.

• 43:14Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 43:15Speaker 01

  And I would say, you know, professionally now, it's just how do I really prioritize? Because, because I've started a business, I have the opportunity now to say, I can control my schedule to really be there for my family.

• 43:24Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 43:25Speaker 01

  And that's, that's different. It's like, okay, I need to finish work at six and I need to, if she needs me to call or whatever it is she needs to take care of, like, I need to be prioritized to be available for that.

• 43:35Lewis Howes?

  I mean, I'm assuming you are very similar to me that we were, there was no off switch when running our businesses for a long time. It was all day, all night. All nighters sometimes, it was, you know, you're at dinner, but you're checking your emails sometimes. It's, you know, your business is life. You know, it's like, I'm assuming that was for many years.

• 43:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:56Lewis Howes?

  Until I started to create more healthy boundaries in the last few years and really like, okay, I'm still working at night sometimes and checking, but it's not this obsession. I'm having more boundaries.

• 44:06Lewis Howes?

  Where do you see yourself now with a child on the way allocating time and energy? If you have an 80 plus million dollar business that you're the CEO of, that you've got 70 something employees or more,

• 44:19Lewis Howes?

  that you wanted to keep being at the same level, if not grow year after year.

• 44:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:23Lewis Howes?

  How do you see yourself creating a healthy lifestyle, being a great partner, being a great father, being a great CEO?

• 44:34Lewis Howes?

  And in 20, 30, 40 years, saying the same response of, you know, I hope my kids respect and love me when they're adults and want to spend time with me.

• 44:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:45Lewis Howes?

  What's your views on how you're going to map that out?

• 44:50Speaker 01

  I don't know how it's gonna play out. I think all I can do is show up.

• 44:54Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 44:55Speaker 01

  Right, all I can do is show up. And right now, my priority is Mafe and the baby. And so just showing up for her and whatever she needs. The other part of that is if that's my priority, then you have to deprioritize other things.

• 45:06Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 45:06Speaker 01

  And so how am I deprioritizing the book and YouTube? And not to say I want to give it up, because I think one of the comments I would say is, I love my work.

• 45:14Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 45:14Speaker 01

  I love it. I'm up late because I get to and not have to. And I think that's available for everyone. And right now, though, it's, do I have the right team in place? Do we have the right budgets? Kind of boundaries in place? Do they have the right scorecards? Each person has a scorecard of three things, so they know what they need to be doing.

• 45:31Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 45:32Speaker 01

  And then I can back off. Right, like, you know, my YouTube channel. Fly to Monaco, or we fly to Switzerland, or go on the streets of New York. We go to houses in California and knock on doors. I don't want to do that, because I want to be there for my family. Okay, doesn't mean I have to give up YouTube, just means I have to change the kind of videos I do.

• 45:47Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 45:48Speaker 01

  So it's also just adjusting that I'm available to prioritize what's my priority. The thing that, a simple thing that Mafe is like, we're going to bed at 9:00 PM, you need to always be there. And I want to have dinner and I want to hang out with you before that. And so now it's basically 6 o'clock, it's done, and been in bed by 9:00 PM.

• 46:03Lewis Howes?

  Really? How's that like?

• 46:08Speaker 01

  You know, she says I'm sometimes on American time. I'm like, 15 minutes, I'm just finishing up 15 minutes, you know?

• 46:13Lewis Howes?

  Two hours later.

• 46:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, when people are like, I wake up and I do all these morning routines, like, I've been as just successful with those morning routines as successful without them. Right? I think sometimes there's an over-optimization of how we're living. It's figuring out what works for you. And I will say, though, it's made me like, take more time, more intentionality about how I'm actually spending my day. Like, do I really want to spend? Like, if I can only do so many things today, like, what is the real few things that matter? And being okay that, like, I have a painting I haven't put up, there's scratches all over the house, pool stuff is broken. And it's like, well, I have to get my work done, and I want to spend time with my family. And being okay that there's other things that are gonna go by the wayside for the time being.

• 46:56Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, wow. Someone on your team is here, your videographer, and he was saying that one of the questions he would really like to ask is... He's seen you mature emotionally over the last couple of years in a big way. And he was curious about, you know, how you've emotionally matured around money? And how therapy has supported you in this growth?

• 47:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:20Lewis Howes?

  Curious what your thoughts are on that. Biggest lessons you've learned that have made you more emotionally mature? I feel like both of us have had emotional maturity over the last few years.

• 47:28Speaker 01

  I still remember our times in New York that were, you know, 20 year old times. And now we're 40 year old times and it's adjusted.

• 47:34Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 47:35Speaker 01

  I, you know, I go to therapy every month, Dr. Resnick. And I think one of the, I would say the biggest change for me is stop chasing externally? And stop looking externally when all the things are internal. That's the only real difference. Where I have enough. You know, I was talking to an entrepreneur, oh, Ali. And he said someone gave him advice, oh, you need to get to $10 million in sales. You need to get to a million subs. You need to get, you need to be doing these things in life. And it's like, no, I don't. I don't need more money. I don't need more subs. I actually, one of my counterintuitive things, I want less ambitious goals. I'm not trying to race. I used to try to race.

• 48:16Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 48:17Speaker 01

  And when you race, guess what happens? You get tired and you burn out.

• 48:19Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 48:19Speaker 01

  So create less ambitious goals, but stick with them longer. And so I think that's just created a lot more peace in my life because I'm not rushing to compete with other people. I'm just competing with myself and I can be proud of what I actually get to do.

• 48:31Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 48:32Speaker 01

  So that's made me more calm overall. And just like, you know, kind of what you said, like taking a step back, zooming out. Be like, if you look at most of our lives, like it's pretty fricking awesome.

• 48:43Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 48:44Speaker 01

  And just actually being acknowledging that. And I think so many times we're looking at it and we're like, ah, I don't have this. It's like, well, what do you have? And it's like, so many of these other things, it's awesome.

• 48:54Lewis Howes?

  Not comparing to other people.

• 48:56Speaker 01

  It's hard not to compare. I think jealousy is great. I think, I know, but I think jealousy envy is great, at least from a directional standpoint. Cause you're like, do I really want this? I haven't shared this. I used to be jealous of Ramit, one of our good friends. Aw, man, he's like doing that. And then jealousy is a great mirror for yourself. To then recognize like, okay, what is it about that that maybe I want or don't want? And then just get to that conclusion for yourself. And make the decision for what you want actually. Do you want that life or not? And that's okay. Joe, you know Joe Hudson?

• 49:27Lewis Howes?

  Sounds familiar.

• 49:28Speaker 01

  Oh, Joe Hudson's fire. He's fire. He has a thing called Connection Course. Highly recommend.

• 49:32Lewis Howes?

  Joe Hudson.

• 49:32Speaker 01

  Done it with my brother to connect better, done it with Mafe to connect better. And one of the things he says about life and something that as you're talking with other people, just say, "And that's okay." And I love it. I say, "And that, hey, you wanna be more famous? Fine. It's like, what you really want? And that's okay. You're okay where you're at? Great. And that's okay."

• 49:51Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 49:52Speaker 01

  And it just kinda is like almost relieving. Just relieving. And that's okay. We're not trying so hard for other people. We're just trying hard for ourselves.

• 49:57Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. I love that, man. What has therapy taught you about money?

• 50:02Speaker 01

  Bro, how much time? How long is the episode? I mean, I literally went to therapy for two years to buy my house.

• 50:07Lewis Howes?

  To buy your house? Why?

• 50:09Speaker 01

  I didn't feel worthy of having a house.

• 50:11Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 50:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:12Lewis Howes?

  So how much money did you have? And how much net worth did you have?

• 50:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:18Lewis Howes?

  And you still didn't feel worthy with that much money?

• 50:22Speaker 01

  Um, probably liquid 10 mil.

• 50:25Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 50:25Speaker 01

  And then AppSumo was worth, I don't know, nine figures, like 100, 200 million.

• 50:29Lewis Howes?

  So you had 10 million liquid, you had a hundred million dollars, you know, in terms of equity in a business.

• 50:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:35Lewis Howes?

  And you didn't feel, a few hundred million, and you didn't feel worthy of owning a home? Or buying nice things?

• 50:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, but I'm trying to relate to the audience, cuz I don't want them, "Oh, boo hoo, you poor rich..." Well, like, you know, that's not, but we all feel, you know, insecure in different ways.

• 50:50Lewis Howes?

  And if you don't fix the insecurity when you don't have money, having the money is not gonna fix insecurity.

• 50:55Speaker 01

  It's not gonna fix your...

• 50:55Lewis Howes?

  It might have some added benefits. You can pay more bills. You can take care of health challenges easier. You can speed up conveniences, things like that, but it's not gonna make you worthy.

• 51:06Speaker 01

  You know?

• 51:06Lewis Howes?

  I tell you, fix the worthiness insecurity inside of us.

• 51:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, and so therapy is like, I remember with Facebook,

• 51:16Speaker 01

  I got fired and then I went to therapist. And I was like, "I'm so sad I'm not gonna get rich." And it's also kind of a, kinda crazy concept cuz it's like, there's, you can get rich in other ways. Like, this is not the only way. And, um, well, she said, "Okay, let's, let's do an experiment. So let's write down all the things you really want if you got rich." I was like, "Okay, I wanna M3." This is like years ago when M3s are cool, right? I was like, "I wanna M3. Okay, write it down. How much is an M3? 50K? Okay. I love a house. This is in California and houses were like a million. Okay, a million. Okay, what else?"

• 51:49Lewis Howes?

  First class?

• 51:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, first class, cool. Okay, okay, let's put that down. All right, so how much is that? One and a half million.

• 51:56Speaker 01

  Do you think you're gonna be able to make that kind of money in next few years?

• 51:58Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 51:59Speaker 01

  Ten years, next year, a few years? Yeah? Maybe you're doing okay? Right, and so it's just kind of actually having that list of things we actually want in life. Like, one of the things that was important for me was my freedom number.

• 52:10Lewis Howes?

  What's your freedom number?

• 52:11Speaker 01

  My freedom number, and everyone has one, is what's the number you need to actually live the life you want? And it's always less than people think. And so after that experience, I realized I just want to get to 3,000 bucks a month. If I can actually get 3,000 bucks a month, I don't need this house, I don't need an M3, but I don't have to work for anyone, ever again. I never have to have a boss, which I don't want to be anyone's boss, and I never want anyone to be my boss. And it was 3,000 bucks, so it's like, I'm just gonna keep swinging, I'm gonna keep experimenting year after year after year, until finally, 2010, I mean, six years after leaving college, that I was finally able to get a business, I was like, oh, I can do this. It finally can work.

• 52:46Lewis Howes?

  Then you were a boss.

• 52:47Speaker 01

  I wouldn't say I'm anyone's boss.

• 52:49Lewis Howes?

  But you're an employer.

• 52:50Speaker 01

  I'm an employer at a company, but most of the people don't listen to me. The best people at, most of the people at AppSumo, and even at Facebook, I would say the best teammates and people at Facebook and at AppSumo, the best people are the ones that don't listen. I know that's kind of...

• 53:03Lewis Howes?

  If they don't listen and they're getting results, and I'm like, great, you know, it's awesome.

• 53:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:06Lewis Howes?

  If you're not listening, then you're screwing everything up, but like, okay, you know.

• 53:10Speaker 01

  No, and when I say not listening, what I mean by that is like with YouTube, with Jeremy, or with AppSumo, we have, you know, Sean, Alona, and other people, as well as with Tal Roz. The best ideas are forged. And so Tal Roz fought me on everything in this book. I mean, we fought for the best.

• 53:27Lewis Howes?

  That's great.

• 53:28Speaker 01

  To finally...

• 53:28Lewis Howes?

  That's great, yeah.

• 53:29Speaker 01

  And that's what I'm encouraging people, where it was like, these people just don't listen. And in a good way.

• 53:34Lewis Howes?

  It shouldn't be about your idea, it should be the best idea winning.

• 53:37Speaker 01

  But we all think we're, we all think we're smart. We all do, of course. Everyone thinks they're smart. And then it's nice to be around people that are challenging your ideas.

• 53:42Lewis Howes?

  That's great, yeah. Challenge it, then show me, you know, a game plan, and take action, and get results.

• 53:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:47Lewis Howes?

  Or it fails, and then you try something else.

• 53:49Speaker 01

  And so coming back on therapy, I still go, you know, should everyone go to therapy? Yeah. I think it's great to have some outlet that's a non-biased person that doesn't give kind of a crap about you for 100 bucks.

• 53:59Lewis Howes?

  Right, yeah, yeah.

• 54:00Speaker 01

  For 100 bucks, they're like, they'll listen to you and then provide like some reflections.

• 54:04Lewis Howes?

  So when did you realize that you actually were worthy of love, of being rich?

• 54:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:11Lewis Howes?

  Of having nice things, or buying a house with the money you've earned? When did you realize you were worthy?

• 54:17Speaker 01

  I was in Barcelona and I was just recognizing my own life. I was working with this woman Stephanie. And I was just kind of, I was outside, there's Arc de Triomphe in Barcelona. And I remember being outside journaling on this iPad. Feeling like, wow, like what a cool life I created. Actually finally recognizing my own life.

• 54:37Lewis Howes?

  Reflecting back in the last 20 years and all the different things, ups and downs.

• 54:41Speaker 01

  The sadness of what I've done to the ex-fiance, how I've created this company that I finally get to actually live my dream. And just kind of, you know, being able to reflect on all of that. Help me accept it and just enjoy it. Like, hey, money is great. I know people say money can't buy happiness. It's definitely made me happier now, finally being able to embrace it.

• 54:58Lewis Howes?

  Once you love and accept yourself and believe you're worthy, then money can buy you additional happiness.

• 55:04Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 55:05Lewis Howes?

  But it cannot buy you happiness if you feel unlovable.

• 55:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:08Lewis Howes?

  You don't accept yourself and you don't face the challenges and the pain and the sadness that's within you. Then it's just more sadness because I make this money.

• 55:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:18Lewis Howes?

  But I'm like still shameful about who I am.

• 55:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's still chasing. It's still this external side. And so with Stephanie, it, and it's the simplest thing. It's just day by day.

• 55:27Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 55:27Speaker 01

  Like do something for yourself. Do something that you're proud of for yourself. Like back in the day, we had this thing called Gebby. It was me and my buddy Adam from my body tutor, basically gratitude exercise breakfast you. And if anything, it's just like, just how do you do one thing for yourself each day? Where you feel good about yourself. Maybe it's in a relationship. So for me, it was like, all right, I'm dating these women. I have a, I did have a goal. I was like, I'd like to have kids and I'd like to have a real partner that I'm getting what I want.

• 55:51Lewis Howes?

  When did you realize you wanted to have kids and a partner where it was like a harmonious relationship? When did that come about?

• 55:57Speaker 01

  It took, it took years and it took years. After breaking up with fiance, it was like back and forth with her. And then working with Stephanie, it was like, I really did have to close the door in the past. And there was a visualization and I couldn't swing to my next branch, holding on to my previous one.

• 56:11Lewis Howes?

  Oh my goodness.

• 56:12Speaker 01

  You know what I'm saying?

• 56:13Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 56:14Speaker 01

  I was holding on because I was like, I like partying.

• 56:18Lewis Howes?

  Your previous identity, the lifestyle, the.

• 56:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 56:21Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 56:23Speaker 01

  It was feeling more harmonious just daily. It was honestly like a daily practice. I really enjoyed being in Barcelona. I felt like, wow, I get to work on this business. I get to meet interesting people. And then it was directionally. I didn't know, kind of faith, what you were talking about with your stuff. Like, I had faith there's going to be someone out there that I'd eventually now start meeting. But I was being intentional about it. And I told the ex, I sent her a message like, I can't reply to you anymore. And that was hard. That was really.

• 56:46Lewis Howes?

  You closed the chapter.

• 56:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. And I'm sure she was mad and all these things. But I was like, you know, you, I want you to find someone that is good for you. And.

• 56:54Lewis Howes?

  So it was still kind of lingering energy. It was like, okay, we're not together, but hey, how are you? And checking in and every once in a while.

• 57:01Speaker 01

  Waiting for a text.

• 57:02Lewis Howes?

  Intermittently, yeah.

• 57:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:04Lewis Howes?

  So you made the decision like, hey, I cannot communicate with you anymore.

• 57:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:08Lewis Howes?

  You sent that message.

• 57:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:09Lewis Howes?

  Did your coach or therapist kind of guide you in that? Or was that something within?

• 57:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, so she was like, you need to send this message. And I was like, I'm not doing it. So she was, and this is kind of a weird, I would say hack for others. If you do have coaches or you meet with other people, I'd record my conversations with their permission. It's not secret.

• 57:26Lewis Howes?

  And listen back to it or?

• 57:27Speaker 01

  I listened to myself. And I noticed, I'm like, huh, are you proud of how you're, what you did with these dates? Are you proud of how your work is? Are you proud? And then just kind of an interesting moment of reflection, like when you do content, when you do anything, you get a chance to actually learn. And so through that, I was listening to it. And then when I was ready, you know, it takes time for all of us. Like, how many times has someone given you advice? And then you read the book or you listen to something and finally, like the 18th time, you finally accept it. And I kid you not, it was probably about four weeks later when I finally sent it. And then four weeks later, I met Mafe.

• 57:57Lewis Howes?

  Isn't that fascinating?

• 57:58Speaker 01

  I know, I know, I hate that story, but the key part, I don't hate the story. I love that story. But one thing that I've changed my perspective on, based on, you know, what Isaac was asking, I believe I'm more optimistic. And not optimistic because yes, things are good, all this stuff. But like, how do you be optimistic when things aren't good? And there's a book, Learned Optimism, phenomenal book. And that optimism is a choice. And so, okay, business isn't working out, business still, we still have problems. I told you, the YouTube team, most of them quit.

• 58:26Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 58:27Speaker 01

  AppSumo, we still have partners complaining or different things happening. How do you stay optimistic that, do you think the future's gonna be better than today or not?

• 58:34Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I think it's gonna be bright.

• 58:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, but that's hard.

• 58:37Lewis Howes?

  Even when things are going down and there's challenges and there's stress, I'm like, this is all happening in my favor for a brighter future.

• 58:44Speaker 01

  That's tough though, when it doesn't feel good, man, you know?

• 58:46Lewis Howes?

  It didn't feel good.

• 58:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:47Lewis Howes?

  For like, many months this year, I was going through a lot of challenges, just like, man, there's a challenge here in the business, and this person, and this is challenging, and revenue's going down, and you know, all these different things, and I was like,

• 58:59Lewis Howes?

  you know, after, you know, a period of being frustrated, you know, internally, I was like, okay, how can I look at this in a way? Because being frustrated and stressed is not gonna cause me to feel better, and it's probably not gonna get me into flow and creativity.

• 59:13Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 59:14Lewis Howes?

  And I'm probably, you know, stressing my, you know, girlfriend, now fiancee out, or whatever, people around me, with that tense energy. It's not like I was explosive or anything, but it was more like, I just wasn't my happy self-whole, right?

• 59:27Lewis Howes?

  And I started to shift that energy internally, and say, this is all happening in my favor. And maybe this continues for six months or a year, and knowing that I'm gonna make sure I put my attention on it, I'm gonna align the right people towards it, we're gonna be figuring it out. And eventually, you will figure it out.

• 59:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:44Lewis Howes?

  Hopefully, it figures out today. But if not, it's gonna be figuring itself out. And just take care of my health, my mindset, my attitude.

• 59:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:52Lewis Howes?

  I think that's really the only thing we can control.

• 59:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:55Lewis Howes?

  Is who we are, and how we show up. I'm curious about this.

• 1:00:01Lewis Howes?

  Where do you think you'd be if you didn't emotionally and physically send that, that text of like, hey, I need to close this chapter with this relationship?

• 1:00:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:11Lewis Howes?

  Where do you think you'd be right now if you kept that door open? Whether it's with that or any type of door, from a previous thing that was kind of holding on to you. Where do you think you'd be? Do you think you'd be in a peaceful, loving, beautiful relationship with a child on the way? Or do you think something else would be happening?

• 1:00:29Speaker 01

  How many times has something bad happened that turned out to be great?

• 1:00:32Lewis Howes?

  For me, every time.

• 1:00:34Speaker 01

  When people say do the work, I'm always like, what's the work? You know, you hear it, you're like, do the work. I'm like, can you tell me what it is? I can do it. And I think the work is just really trying to understand ourselves. Understanding what's going on, like, do I want to live the way I'm, I've been living? And it's like, no, this is not what I want. I'm like excited to have a family one day. And so, okay, what is necessary for me to feel worthy?

• 1:00:54Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:00:55Speaker 01

  To then lead to that kind of.

• 1:00:57Lewis Howes?

  So what was that thing that was necessary for you to feel worthy of a different life? Financially, emotionally.

• 1:01:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:05Lewis Howes?

  Spiritually, you know, family, relationship. What was that thing?

• 1:01:11Speaker 01

  There's, there's not, there's not one thing. There's not one day that like I magically woke up because I meditated or something specially happened. I think it was literally like each day, can I just be a little kinder to myself? Just a little bit more generous to myself and then to others. And, you know, with the, let's just take it piece by piece, right? I have noticed that when my relationship's going well, guess what else is going well?

• 1:01:31Lewis Howes?

  Everything else. Yeah.

• 1:01:33Speaker 01

  And when one thing's going bad, it's like, maybe these other things are going bad. So let's start working on these different pieces of it.

• 1:01:38Lewis Howes?

  But I feel like you've always been a very generous person to others. Like, since I've known you, you've always been generous, giving, like, willing to jump on a call and say, let me help with anything, strategy, or you need an introduction. You're like that with everyone.

• 1:01:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:49Lewis Howes?

  So you're very generous outwardly to other people, where you're not generous to yourself.

• 1:01:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, generous with the money.

• 1:01:55Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 1:01:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, like I didn't really enjoy the money. I told you, I was like living in it. I lived in an 800 square foot house that's falling down. Literally like cracks in the floor, cracks in the walls. And it's like, and that's what I thought of myself. This is actually kind of an interesting experience and I do want to answer your question, but I'm trying to think more through it. Go back to your old life. Go back to three years ago. I went to my old house. About three months ago, I was like, huh, wow, this is what I thought of myself. And

• 1:02:21Lewis Howes?

  Your environment.

• 1:02:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was a representation of what I thought I deserved. And it's interesting for all of us, like what we think we deserve. Do we deserve great families? Do we deserve great, great money? Do we deserve a great where we're living? And then you start realizing like, okay, what's really holding me back from that? And every time it's yourself. And so going through therapy, talking with a therapist, talking with Stephanie, I wouldn't say it's like some, it wasn't some overnight thing.

• 1:02:44Lewis Howes?

  It usually isn't overnight. It's usually a series of events, a series of conversations, reflections, integrations.

• 1:02:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:51Lewis Howes?

  Closing of chapters, you know, practices. And then over time, it comes together. It's usually not like, oh, the first conversation I had, I learned to love and accept myself. It's like unwinding and unpacking things that caused us to believe we're unworthy.

• 1:03:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:08Lewis Howes?

  And learning to finally integrate that emotionally and physically.

• 1:03:12Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:03:13Lewis Howes?

  With the present day of doing things over and over that show you that you believe you're worthy.

• 1:03:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:19Lewis Howes?

  It's not just like, oh, I'm gonna think about it and I'm worthy. It's like, you've got to act on it.

• 1:03:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:24Lewis Howes?

  Continuously. And usually when someone's like, okay, I'm gonna let go of this old apartment or whatever, that is really disturbing my vision of what I want to be stepping into. So let me transition from this to the next thing. Let me leave a job that really isn't the vision I have. And I leave that and I don't know where I'm gonna go next, but then magically something unfolds. It's when we leave a relationship, we finally say, I love you, I appreciate you, but this is not good for either of us. It's time for me to close this chapter.

• 1:03:52Speaker 01

  Hundred percent.

• 1:03:52Lewis Howes?

  How hard that is emotionally, especially if you've been with someone for years and you've already talked about the future and unwinding that is extremely hard. But then, boom, something unfolds magically, it seems like.

• 1:04:06Speaker 01

  Isn't that funny how that happens?

• 1:04:07Lewis Howes?

  Isn't it crazy?

• 1:04:07Speaker 01

  I would also, I was, I was thinking how it's also experimenting.

• 1:04:10Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:04:11Speaker 01

  Like, okay, what if, what would a great relationship? Can I go on a date and just see what a great relationship would be like, maybe? Could I try? And I told you, like, try nice houses, see what that's like? Can I try first class? Be like, this is pretty good. Right? And then you start feeling like, okay, what do I need to do so that I can feel more comfortable doing these all the time? Besides just the money part.

• 1:04:27Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:28Speaker 01

  And I think with the worthy, it was just day by day, just doing things that I felt proud for myself.

• 1:04:32Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:04:33Speaker 01

  Like, is my behavior making me proud? Like, there's a lot of times where if I'm out to have a drink, I'm like,

• 1:04:39Speaker 01

  Do you think you'll feel proud of yourself for making this decision? And that's what I think a lot. And sometimes it's like, yeah, have a drink. Great. And other times it's like, no, let's not. And I'm like, good. Keep saying these kind things to yourself. That's something that I always think the word generous. And generous, I think people think of money to others. But I think generous as words to yourself.

• 1:04:56Speaker 01

  Just be like, and you can also be generous with words to other people, too. With your partner or with people you admire. Generous yourself be like, hey, man, you're doing well. Even if it's not great or you didn't get the success immediately, you can just keep doing it.

• 1:05:06Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:05:06Speaker 01

  And there's no one stopping it. It's unlimited.

• 1:05:08Lewis Howes?

  I know. How do you think someone can

• 1:05:12Lewis Howes?

  become more valuable in the marketplace? Become more worthy of financial abundance? Of making and earning more? What are some things they can do internally and externally to appreciate and value?

• 1:05:29Speaker 01

  Like to get a better salary or to start their own business?

• 1:05:31Lewis Howes?

  Either one.

• 1:05:32Speaker 01

  Yeah. I think the thing that I've always found the most fascinating.

• 1:05:35Lewis Howes?

  Or to create a great relationship or all these things, you know, just appreciating in value.

• 1:05:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. The thing that I've always come back to is how can you just go help one person?

• 1:05:45Speaker 01

  Like a lot of times on my YouTube channel or at AppSumo or with this book, like, I don't just go help one person. I think we get, you know, when people want a business, they think about million and they don't get the dollar. And when you actually help another person, you really realize like, oh, I have a lot more ability and capabilities really than I even realized.

• 1:06:02Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:06:04Speaker 01

  In the workplace, I think, one, everyone should be an entrepreneur so that you have some control over your destiny. And you can keep your data. We have a lot of entrepreneurs at AppSumo. We have like Amy, she has a flower shop. Nick has a teeth whitening business. Almond's wife has a facial business. You know, they, and that's great. And so you can have that option. Within the company, I think it's really, this has been really fascinating. Like who gets paid more and why? Like, how come an engineer makes 200 and someone in customer support makes 35? And it's within everyone's ability to recognize like what things are getting paid more for. And there's no limit that they can go do those other things. Like we have a lot of people in our company, like Matt Bean went from launch operations to now he's a product manager.

• 1:06:46Speaker 01

  Pretty cool. And there's all these people within our company and elsewhere. It's like, well, if you want more money, it's, there's no limit to what you can create. And so figuring out what is more valuable in a business and then how do you move up that chain?

• 1:06:55Lewis Howes?

  What do you think are the three most important skills for people to earn more money that they can develop?

• 1:07:01Speaker 01

  Number one is follow up.

• 1:07:04Speaker 01

  No one follows up.

• 1:07:05Lewis Howes?

  Just being consistent with following up.

• 1:07:08Speaker 01

  Bro, no one follows up. It's unbelievable. I like deleting people's emails just to see what happens.

• 1:07:14Lewis Howes?

  I'm like, see if they reply in a week.

• 1:07:16Speaker 01

  DMs, emails, texts, just see what happens. No one follows up. If you really want something, you follow up, you persist. So I'd say that that's one of the best things. Number two, I mean, coming back on that, I would say it's how are they learning? What is their learning approach? I've seen different people that are like, yeah, I'm good. This is where I want to be. And it's like, well, you'll stay where you are. And I've seen other people, like, let's take Sean, for instance, he's the head of revenue at AppSumo. He was, six years ago, our junior salesperson. Now he's responsible for 80 million. And that's because Sean kept learning.

• 1:07:44Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:07:45Speaker 01

  Right? He has different coaches, he's taking different courses. I'm like, ah, there's something there with that. So you're following up, you're learning. All these skills are available for everyone. There's nothing exclusive. I'd say the last one is attitude.

• 1:07:55Lewis Howes?

  Oh, gosh, man.

• 1:07:56Speaker 01

  I know, it's some of these obvious shit, but it's like,

• 1:07:58Lewis Howes?

  Dude.

• 1:07:58Speaker 01

  Who's, it's been interesting to see the attitude of people, especially, we've had hundreds of people work at AppSumo.

• 1:08:05Speaker 01

  YouTube team, all these people, I've seen a lot of different friends have companies, it's like, who is people, whose attitude? And I like people that have a solution attitude.

• 1:08:15Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:08:16Speaker 01

  Like, oh, this didn't work? What else can we do?

• 1:08:17Lewis Howes?

  That's huge.

• 1:08:18Speaker 01

  And it's not exclusive. Everyone can work on their attitude, no matter what. If you're starting your business, if you're as an employee at a company, or whatever it is, in a relationship, whatever that is.

• 1:08:27Lewis Howes?

  Dude, I have, you know, half my team is virtual and half my team is here. And Alexandra and Sandy here, who are in the office here. You know, every day I walk in and they just have, you know, they just have a good attitude. And for me, you have no idea how far that goes, when, especially as someone who's got challenges. If you're the business owner, you've got challenges, fires you're putting out all day, and just different people you're dealing with throughout the day, right? Decisions to make. So when someone is just consistently following up with a good attitude, even when they got challenges, they don't have to be perfect every day, but just like a consistency of a positive attitude, a solution-oriented attitude, you have no idea how valuable that is.

• 1:09:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:10Lewis Howes?

  How, how much people appreciate that. There has been so many times that I've played sports on teams where

• 1:09:17Lewis Howes?

  There was some incredibly freakish athlete, just like so talented, like just way better than everyone else. But had the worst negative attitude and it ruined the entire dynamics in the team. But you're like, oh, but they're so good. But they're just bringing everyone down with their attitude.

• 1:09:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:36Lewis Howes?

  And the moment you remove that person or they remove themselves. It's like, wow, there's this flow and this is like. Connection and there's this collaboration and there's just this, you know, progress that's more effortless. When you remove one person with a negative attitude or they remove themselves for whatever reason.

• 1:09:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:54Lewis Howes?

  It's incredible. I'd rather have a team of people. Who would just have a solution oriented attitude than like the superstar talented technical engineer or like. Graphic designer or video editor with a negative attitude. All day long. You can do so much more with positive attitude. I always talk about like the three things we look for are attitude, energy and effort. It's like, if you can be consistent with those three things. You've got a place here. You know, and those are all things in your control.

• 1:10:23Speaker 01

  A hundred percent.

• 1:10:24Lewis Howes?

  They're all in your control. And if you have a learning mindset as well and you keep growing like, then the earning potential just keeps going up more and more. So faster.

• 1:10:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:32Lewis Howes?

  Man, I love this, man. This is powerful stuff. I don't know if this is what you were thinking about.

• 1:10:35Speaker 01

  No, this is the opposite of literally what I was thinking we're going to talk about, which is it's good. It's like, I like getting outside of the, um, like our auto narrative.

• 1:10:42Lewis Howes?

  Yes, yes.

• 1:10:43Speaker 01

  And, um, but I, I don't think it's unique in the sense that we're all going through our own different challenge. Like everyone, you have your own personal life going on. Everyone watching has their own like. I've got a family and I'm struggling and maybe I'd like to be an entrepreneur or I've got a day job and it sucks or I want to get a job. And, you know, we're all going through it.

• 1:10:59Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 1:10:59Speaker 01

  We're all frankly, the real answer is that we're all figuring it out.

• 1:11:02Lewis Howes?

  We are, man.

• 1:11:02Speaker 01

  And so it's been, uh, it's been a journey that I'm, I'm happy to share and I've been. Fortunate to be able to figure it out at 40 where I'm at than figure it out at 60 or 70.

• 1:11:12Lewis Howes?

  Figuring it out. We're still figuring it out.

• 1:11:14Speaker 01

  When we are.

• 1:11:15Lewis Howes?

  Once you have your kid and you know, the relationship dynamic is just gonna be like, ah, I don't know anything. What do I do now? Right?

• 1:11:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I think one of the things that's cool is there's so many other people that have figured these things out, or at least have gone through what we're going through. So it's been super cool having the baby that I call up friends. I'm like, what outfit, what outfit should I buy? Well, for my, for my, the baby mom, I was like, you know, what's cool clothing for her? So like this week I was buying cool clothes for her or I'm talking to my business partner and he has a baby and I'm like, what apps do you use? And he's like, oh, Wonder Weeks. You gotta check out Wonder Weeks and The Bump. And so I have these apps now.

• 1:11:45Lewis Howes?

  I gotta check these out.

• 1:11:45Speaker 01

  Oh, Wonder Week.

• 1:11:46Lewis Howes?

  I mean, I'm not.

• 1:11:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, let's get you there, dude. Now I'm like team baby. Let's go, everyone.

• 1:11:50Lewis Howes?

  Once I'm, once I'm ready, I'm gonna be hitting you up.

• 1:11:52Speaker 01

  Dude, please.

• 1:11:53Lewis Howes?

  You'll have like a year of experience by that time.

• 1:11:55Speaker 01

  Well, I'd love, if you, people have kids out there or they babysat kids and they have comments or feedback, I'd love, I love suggestions.

• 1:12:01Lewis Howes?

  Give your parenting tips below.

• 1:12:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, man. So that's been, but there's people out there that have gone through it and like same as AppSumo, who's these coaches that have already gone through it. And so there's been a lot of people that we've asked for, for help.

• 1:12:12Lewis Howes?

  I've got a few more questions I want to ask you, but I want people to get the book Million Dollar Weekend. I don't know if anything we talked about here is we're headed to the book, but get the book Million Dollar Weekend, The Surprisingly Simple Way to Launch. Seven Figure Business in 48 Hours.

• 1:12:29Lewis Howes?

  Packed with battle-tested entrepreneurial strategies. You know, I think it's interesting because probably when you wrote this book, you were thinking about, okay, what are all the tactical things that I did and other people have done? That they can actually launch with strategy and game plan and goal setting and team and delegation and optimization. And all these different strategies which are time-tested and backed.

• 1:12:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:52Lewis Howes?

  But a lot of these entrepreneurs, they are successful in that, but then they forget how to love themselves, love other people, have healthy relationship with self. Feel worthy and deserving of the success they're having. Manage the success without overwhelm and stress. Like there's all these other emotional things that we need to learn once we create that, if we don't learn them before. And I'm glad you're talking a lot about those things right now. Speaking of having kids and.

• 1:13:20Lewis Howes?

  Billionaires, you've interviewed a lot of mega millionaires billionaires who do have kids. And I'm assuming some of them have regrets around not being there for their kids as much as they would like to.

• 1:13:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:32Lewis Howes?

  Or not being as emotionally available, focusing more on the business than them. And then there's others that maybe did it really great and they showed up for their kids in a beautiful way and they built their business in a big way. How do, without being a parent yourself yet, but interviewing a lot of parents with a lot of money. What have you learned from rich people with kids on how to not ruin their kids? With access to a private jet, with access to unlimited money, with access to the best private teachers and everything and. You know, just without spoiling their kids, how do you raise conscious, loving, generous, healthy, kind humans? When you are mega rich?

• 1:14:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'll find out. I'll tell you.

• 1:14:17Lewis Howes?

  What have you learned from people you've interviewed?

• 1:14:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I'd say the number one thing is how are you leading by example?

• 1:14:23Speaker 01

  In all aspects, yeah. So how are you showing up yourself? Are you? And I heard a story where these rich people hired a nanny and then the kids never even saw the parents.

• 1:14:32Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:14:33Speaker 01

  Are you doing the dirty work? Are you doing the dishes? Are you showing up or are you just outsourcing everything? And not showing up for your responsibility? And how are the parents treating money? Because I think if you earn money, which I think everyone should have a chance to do it, which they do. You and you have access to be able to have help, to get groceries, to buy whatever things you want. And you shouldn't do that. You should definitely do that. It makes your life easier. But I think it's figuring out like, what are the parts you really want to impact on your kids and how are you teaching them that by doing it yourself? And so that's something that with Mafe, it's talking about like, how do we want to, do we want to have a bunch of staff? And I'm like, no, we shouldn't. Both of us have agreed, like, let's do the hard work in the beginning. And then we figure out, okay, where is it? We don't need to always do these things and we can hire help around that stuff.

• 1:15:12Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure.

• 1:15:13Speaker 01

  So that to me is how we're looking at it.

• 1:15:15Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:15:16Speaker 01

  I think most of the other people probably have been so focused on this money. And I remember with Mafe, I brought it to my house. It's a two million dollar house. It's gone down because the market's going down. You know, maybe it's one and a half by the time you watch it. I remember brought it to my house.

• 1:15:31Speaker 01

  And she goes in the door and I'm like, when I've brought over dates in the past, it was a very long time ago. I'm like, look at this house.

• 1:15:37Lewis Howes?

  I'm the man.

• 1:15:38Speaker 01

  Look at this house. Look at this. I have a photo of me once you walk in, you know, right there. And she didn't give two. I was like, what the? I did all this work. You're supposed to be impressed. She's like, and I remember, and I asked her about it a few months ago. I was like, you came over to my house. You didn't give two, you didn't care about it at all. She's like, I just care about who you are.

• 1:15:54Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:15:56Speaker 01

  And I was like, what? You know, I was like, I did all this work. And it was a beautiful moment of just for all of us.

• 1:16:02Lewis Howes?

  That's beautiful.

• 1:16:03Speaker 01

  Like, who are we? Without any of these extra things, right? Who are you as a parent? Who are you as an individual? How are you showing up for as a partner in your business and your relationship at work, whatever that is? And that was a great moment. I'm very lucky to be with someone like her.

• 1:16:15Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:16:16Speaker 01

  That in parenting, I have a great partner in that. And then how am I showing up that just as a dad? And I asked a friend of mine, I was like, how do you, how do you be good parents? I feel there's people who had great parents and they go to therapy. There's people who had bad parents go to therapy and all these things. The friend was like, it's hard to say how that's going to happen. You just have to give a. And that's it. And that's it. Just show up, leave by someone, give a fuck on these, these kids. And you can't really control all the other outcomes of this stuff. But if you're doing that, you're doing your best around it.

• 1:16:44Lewis Howes?

  That's beautiful, man. What's the thing that you say you're most proud of, of yourself in the last few years? That you've done or overcome?

• 1:16:57Speaker 01

  I think not hating on myself so much, not being so critical around all these things has been a huge breakthrough. I'm very proud of this book. I'm insanely proud of it. That's why I have no problem going and talking about it because I've worked my ass off with tall. Like at first I was afraid. And this is everyone out there. Like, what are you afraid of? Let's go into it, do your thing, realize you're capable of it and be like, I can do some things out there.

• 1:17:18Speaker 01

  Being a partner and showing up for Mafe, which is like, what are you actually committed to? What are you actually committed to? And when you commit, you show up. And so I'm very proud, especially now that she's pregnant, like how am I showing up as a partner for what she needs?

• 1:17:30Lewis Howes?

  Beautiful, man.

• 1:17:31Speaker 01

  Like, am I up it when she's puking at night? Right? Or whatever it is that, you know, she needs food or a thermometer or different stuff to take care of her.

• 1:17:39Lewis Howes?

  Wow, that's beautiful, man.

• 1:17:40Speaker 01

  So, yeah, I'm really proud of myself. And that's taken, that's taken a long time.

• 1:17:46Speaker 01

  Maybe 20 years.

• 1:17:47Lewis Howes?

  Wow, man.

• 1:17:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, to be able to get to that point.

• 1:17:49Lewis Howes?

  That's beautiful.

• 1:17:50Speaker 01

  And that's not an overnight thing. That's like doing these little things each day for myself, showing up for her. And over time now with all these things, they've come together nicely.

• 1:17:59Lewis Howes?

  What's the thing you love about her the most?

• 1:18:05Speaker 01

  She's kind. I always, the thing I generally think, like, she's really hot on the inside.

• 1:18:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, she's, she's so kind. And I think we all have to unlearn some of our older dating relationships.

• 1:18:22Speaker 01

  And I mentioned it to you earlier where I would do things and I'd always feel in trouble. I don't know if it's some childhood thing or whatnot, but I always.

• 1:18:29Lewis Howes?

  Me too.

• 1:18:29Speaker 01

  I always felt like, oh, I'm in trouble here. And I remember there's one day recently, this is about two months ago, before we found out we're having a kid. And she's like, you know, I'm on your team.

• 1:18:37Lewis Howes?

  Wow. You probably never heard that.

• 1:18:40Speaker 01

  No, I never have.

• 1:18:42Lewis Howes?

  What's that? Feel like having a teammate?

• 1:18:47Speaker 01

  It's funny, my first thought is unworthy. Like, I know, I know, it's still like something to work on. It's not, you can have two thoughts. We can all can. It doesn't mean you there's, oh, no, I'm feeling jealous. So that's a bad, no, guess what? Go to the next one.

• 1:18:58Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:59Speaker 01

  It feels lucky. I feel very lucky. To be able to feel good about myself, to be able to be with someone who is just also like such a special person. Like, holy, how did I find this other person? That, um, I feel like, yeah, I can be a great partner for her too.

• 1:19:16Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:19:17Speaker 01

  It feels amazing.

• 1:19:18Lewis Howes?

  You've been doing the work, you know, consistently. And you've had to close certain chapters of an old identity.

• 1:19:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:25Lewis Howes?

  To allow you to step into a new identity and a new chapter. But if you were hanging on to another branches, because you're afraid to let go and jump into the next one, you know, it's still, you wouldn't have this. It wouldn't be available.

• 1:19:37Speaker 01

  It's like, how do you believe when it's scary? How do you believe and be optimistic there's a great job out there, a great business out there, a great partner out there, great self? And I think some of that is also that it's not really out there is the problem. And I think especially entrepreneurs were like, oh, well, I need to go, I need to go outside and try to do this stuff. It's like, how do we just spend, it's like, how do you spend it inside? And not chase the outside, the validation of these things.

• 1:20:02Lewis Howes?

  How do you spend it inside?

• 1:20:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:04Lewis Howes?

  What do you mean by that?

• 1:20:04Speaker 01

  How do you spend it inside? How do you work on just being at peace with yourself? How do you work just accepting like, hey, I don't know these things and that's okay. Like, I'm doing my best as a partner, maybe I make a mistake and that's okay.

• 1:20:14Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:20:15Speaker 01

  And just kind of continually kind of going through that process now at this place. And Isaac was commenting and I feel more calm. I don't feel like, okay, I don't have as many subs or I don't make, I make, I'm so happy with how much money you make. I'm so happy where I get to live. I'm like, this is great. And that's, you know, that takes time to be able to get to that place.

• 1:20:30Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, a lot of times we see people spend money on the outside to try to make up for what they're lacking on the inside.

• 1:20:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:36Lewis Howes?

  Right, we see that a lot. And you were, you know, you weren't spending on the outside and you weren't spending on the inside. You were like, you know, living in like an environment that was crumbling and you weren't investing externally because you didn't feel like you're worthy.

• 1:20:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:51Lewis Howes?

  And you weren't investing internally to feel worthy either.

• 1:20:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:54Lewis Howes?

  It seems like, it seems like you've been making steps to do both. I've been in the same boat where, you know, I lived on my sister's couch for a year and a half. And then I had just like, my first apartment was $400 a month. And I was like, I went a couple of years without a car and I was just like, okay, let me be as frugal as possible because I don't want to be broke again. Can we save as much as I can so that I never go back to feel like I need to rely on anyone else to live? Because it's not a good feeling, not being able to take responsibility for your life.

• 1:21:21Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:21:22Lewis Howes?

  And needing someone else, especially as a 25 year old, living off your sister or your brother, right? It didn't feel good. And so I had to learn how to overcome that fear. I remember I was like, It wasn't until, I mean, for like 10 years, probably, I was like, how can I get the cheapest flight, middle seat, back row, like multiple connections? To save that extra $200, right? And like just a better seat on a flight or something. I had to really unlearn those things as well. I'd be like, okay, but my back feels broken, you know? I feel like my knees, I like, I'm sitting like this because my knees are against the front. Like, let me invest in a little bit more comfort so that I feel better and I can deliver when I get off this plane or whatever. You know, or I never would get a hotel room.

• 1:22:05Lewis Howes?

  I was always like, I'm not, I'm not paying for a hotel room. I'm gonna stay at a friend's couch. For years, because I was like, $250 a night for a room? What can I do with that money, you know?

• 1:22:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:15Lewis Howes?

  It took me a long time to be like, no, I deserve having like six inches of legroom, you know?

• 1:22:21Speaker 01

  You're a tall guy, yeah.

• 1:22:22Lewis Howes?

  I deserve having like a comfortable bed and, and like having a hotel room when I travel and not just begging to like crash on someone's couch. To save an extra $200 a night, like it took me a while to like, um, I learned that.

• 1:22:35Speaker 01

  What helped you feel that you started feeling worthy of deserving these things? I think that's like such a powerful, you're, you're right, like to, to all this stuff, you have to feel like to have a million dollar business, you have to feel like you also can deserve doing it and getting to that point.

• 1:22:46Lewis Howes?

  I think I felt guilty too. It's like I didn't find my, buy my first home until this year. I've been in two bedroom apartments for the last 15 years, essentially, right? And, um, which is not a bad thing. Like I was comfortable. I liked it. It was like convenient. It was flexible, all these different things, but I think it was always, was always like feeling guilty, like, you know, I have this money. I should be giving more of it away. I should be helping more people, which I give a lot away already, but I was like, you know, do I need this just because I can afford it? Do I need it? And I, and I have a really nice two bedroom apartment, which I'm, is a good environment. It wasn't like crumbling.

• 1:23:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:24Lewis Howes?

  So it was always like, okay, do I need this? Should I invest in this? And I even had a conversation last week with my therapist about investing in stuff that I don't need. I'm like, I was having, going back and forth on, you know, I, I have this really nice home that has been like a dream home that I want to live in for the next 10 plus years. It's everything I want for the next decade of my life with kids, with family visiting. It's like a sanctuary.

• 1:23:53Lewis Howes?

  And I was like, okay, but I kind of want to have like a couple pieces of gym equipment, but they're expensive, like having a treadmill in like, but I don't need that because I have a gym membership. And I go to the gym all the time. So I don't need to spend more money. And I was going back and forth like a couple of months on this. I was like, ah, it's like a big investment. And it's like, but I, but she was like, okay, yes, you don't need it, but do you want to have the environment that saves you time, that optimizes your time so that you can help and serve more people?

• 1:24:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:24Lewis Howes?

  I'm like, yeah, but I can take 20 minutes and go to the gym, you know, but she's like, yes, and you can live in abundance.

• 1:24:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:30Lewis Howes?

  It's not that you don't have the money. So it was overcoming that fear of like, yes, I do deserve it. If that's something I want, you know, and I'm not doing it to be flashy. It's doing it to like optimize my health and my have more time and invest in that,

• 1:24:48Lewis Howes?

  you know, that, that, that value of habits around health.

• 1:24:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:52Lewis Howes?

  You know, and I was kind of like, yeah, I just never want to miss an opportunity to take care of my health. And this will give me that, you know, if the gym's closed or I can't make it, I'll never have a, you know, excuse. So it's just learning. I'm constantly learning how to do that at different levels.

• 1:25:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:06Lewis Howes?

  Because I'm still like, yeah, I don't need to do this. Like, life is good. I don't know. It's a constant journey.

• 1:25:13Speaker 01

  It's tough. I mean, I would say that what I've observed in businesses where specifically in businesses where I've learned about myself the most. And it's a lot of fear. We're just all, a lot of us, especially people starting businesses are afraid. And so you're afraid of feeling like we deserve.

• 1:25:28Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:28Speaker 01

  These things.

• 1:25:29Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:29Speaker 01

  And it sounds kind of crazy, doesn't it? As you say it out loud, like, oh, do I deserve gym equipment? Do I deserve having?

• 1:25:35Lewis Howes?

  It's crazy. Yeah.

• 1:25:36Speaker 01

  It's a little crazy.

• 1:25:37Lewis Howes?

  It's crazy.

• 1:25:38Speaker 01

  And the reality.

• 1:25:39Lewis Howes?

  I already have a gym membership and like, that's enough.

• 1:25:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, and I think for a lot of people out there that maybe it's a relationship, maybe it's a business, maybe it's something else. It's like, what can you do that you're a little afraid of? Maybe not a big afraid, but like a little afraid that you can practice, like we've done the coffee challenge. You heard this? Coffee challenge is something that if you're afraid of asking, which is one of the reasons people haven't had success, you ask for a discount when you buy coffee?

• 1:25:59Lewis Howes?

  I ask every day for a discount everywhere.

• 1:26:02Speaker 01

  Do you really?

• 1:26:02Lewis Howes?

  Everything I buy.

• 1:26:03Speaker 01

  Dude, my man.

• 1:26:04Lewis Howes?

  I ask discounts. I say, what's the chance you can give me 10% off? Everywhere, on a piece of clothes, a coffee, whatever, maybe not every day, I'm exaggerating, but frequently. And my fiance watches me do this all the time and she's kind of like, ah, you know, what are they gonna say? But now she's in on it too.

• 1:26:20Speaker 01

  It's good.

• 1:26:21Lewis Howes?

  So I'm like, hey, what are they gonna say? No? Okay, then you don't get it.

• 1:26:24Speaker 01

  Exactly. No ask, no get. And so, you know, with these things of feeling like we deserve stuff, how do we face some of the fears? So that the coffee challenge is like, you know, can I ask for something? Get rejected and realize, hold on, I can ask for other things that I want in life.

• 1:26:37Lewis Howes?

  Right. Don't you have this thing in the book called the creator's courage?

• 1:26:40Speaker 01

  The courage in general, and the creator's courage is like, how do you keep facing fears?

• 1:26:44Lewis Howes?

  Yes, constantly.

• 1:26:45Speaker 01

  And in small ways, it doesn't have to be some, I have to go and do videos on the street, or I have to go like-

• 1:26:50Lewis Howes?

  I'm speaking or something, yeah.

• 1:26:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, or change my job. Can you do something small? Put yourself out maybe on social media. Ask one person to be your customer. Ask someone if you could do something like to mow their lawn. And maybe like, hey, if you like it, you can pay me next time. And so it's doing these small activities, maybe it's the coffee challenge, like it seems like you're an expert in it, that you can do, that's available to anyone worldwide, that you can start feeling a little bit more courageous. You can start thinking like, what else could I do? And that's the thing, a lot of times we're holding this back, like, I felt, I wasn't afraid of starting, which is what most people are, I wasn't afraid of asking, but that's where the book actually focused on, I'm afraid of feeling like I deserve this stuff.

• 1:27:24Speaker 01

  Yeah. And so it's working on that, like, okay, let me try treating myself to something and be like, maybe you got a Rolex? That's kind of cool. I was like, kind of like it, getting a nice bike. I remember that I finally got a nice bike and I was like, felt kind of like bad, like, oh, I gotta-

• 1:27:38Lewis Howes?

  I know, man. Dude, I go back and forth-

• 1:27:40Speaker 01

  But it's just feeling like we are worthy of these things.

• 1:27:42Lewis Howes?

  I go back and forth on this. My friend got me a Rolex, one of my best friends, for my 40th birthday. He was like, I want to get you something nice, right? And so he got me a Rolex. It wasn't like a $50,000 Rolex, but it was a Rolex, right? I see you wearing one. And I've only worn it like three or four times.

• 1:27:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:58Lewis Howes?

  Now, part of it is that I kind of just wear the same outfit every day, you know, you're wearing a t-shirt. I wear the same, like, I don't know, $50 shirt every day. I mean, I have multiple of them and it's like the same few different shirts and the same pair of jeans, the same pair of shoes, pretty much every day.

• 1:28:12Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:28:13Lewis Howes?

  And so part of it is- That I I don't want to be flashy ever.

• 1:28:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:19Lewis Howes?

  Also, what it's like, I don't want two people to think that like I'm better than them or that I'm like too flashy.

• 1:28:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:26Lewis Howes?

  I'm not, you know, I don't look at you that way with Rayo Rolle, like something that within me, it's like, you know, I'm I'm the most well off in my family, like I've I've made the most money in my family and I'm the youngest of four. And so it's like, okay, I don't want to like show off also.

• 1:28:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:41Lewis Howes?

  So it's how can you enjoy nice things?

• 1:28:46Lewis Howes?

  And feel proud of them, not like.

• 1:28:48Speaker 01

  Hundred percent.

• 1:28:49Lewis Howes?

  Bad or guilty or something like that.

• 1:28:51Speaker 01

  Why do we take ourselves down?

• 1:28:53Lewis Howes?

  I don't know.

• 1:28:54Speaker 01

  No, no, but it's interesting. We take ourselves down because we feel like we're not supposed to.

• 1:28:57Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:28:58Speaker 01

  And it is interesting, this Rolex I got because when Mafa got pregnant. And so I bought I bought three of them and I gave my two other friends got have pregnant women. And so we each have matching Rolex's with our for our kids. And it's something that I used to feel kind of like, I'm gonna wear a cheap watch. I used to not even wear watches, but I'm gonna wear a cheap watch because I don't want to be flashy. But then I was like, why can't we be more proud of ourselves? There's even some arrogance, like I'm the greatest and clearly I'm talking about how I'm unworthy, like I don't. And I'm, you know, I'm doing, I think, things I'm really proud of. And I'm proud of of finding an amazing partner and then that she's wanting to be the mother of my child and I get to be a great partner for her and do my best for that. And so I I am, I wore it out because I'm like, I'm proud of her and proud of myself.

• 1:29:38Lewis Howes?

  That's cool, man.

• 1:29:38Speaker 01

  And so that is what this means to me.

• 1:29:40Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:41Speaker 01

  And so it does, it's not, again, you know, worthiness doesn't, it's not some magical thing you can hear and be like, well, today I'm worthy. It's just like, let me do some small thing that makes me feel good about myself today and maybe do it a few times today and then do it tomorrow. And continually over time that adds up.

• 1:29:53Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:29:54Speaker 01

  To where it's like, okay, yeah, I'm proud of what I've done and I'm I can tell other people about it and that's okay.

• 1:29:59Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Your child is eighteen. Going off to college. You're forty nine, almost fifty, let's say you're fifty at that time, right? Your child is going off to college. What is the thing that you want your child to be most proud of about you over these next eighteen to twenty years? That your child witnesses and experiences from you as a father, as a husband to their mother? What's the thing you want them to be most proud of when they go off to college, if that's what they choose to do?

• 1:30:36Speaker 01

  I was writing my girlfriend today and I wrote like, you're a, you're good mommy. And I was like, oh shit. Like, that was kind of wild just to realize this is all coming true. And like the, these great lives are out there for everyone. And it takes time, it takes time to be patient and acknowledge that. For my daughter, I hope I have a daughter, it might be a boy, but I still, I love him probably a little bit less.

• 1:31:04Speaker 01

  What do I want for them?

• 1:31:06Lewis Howes?

  What do you want them to be most proud of? About you and how you showed up for them?

• 1:31:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:31:13Lewis Howes?

  Your wife, your, you know, and everything you go through, your business, your life. What do you want them to be most proud of?

• 1:31:19Speaker 01

  I have, my best friend, Adam Gilbert, from, I, I really admire him as a father. And he said, he said this to me, and I'm copying it, because I think it's a great approach. He's like, I never want to say no. I was like, what do you mean? He's like, if they want to go play soccer, if they want to play basketball, if they want to go to the park, I always want to be a little perfect. And I, that's what I like. That when, my kid knows when they're 18 as well as 10 or well as 28, that I was there. And my dad had his own experiences and when I was younger where he didn't show up. And I just want to be there. They're like, there's never a no.

• 1:31:51Lewis Howes?

  Right. That's cool, man. It's beautiful.

• 1:31:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:31:55Lewis Howes?

  Lead our weekend. Make sure you guys get a copy. Make sure you guys get a copy. If you want to learn all the strategies about.

• 1:32:05Lewis Howes?

  I think it's cool though, you, you talk about how to, you know, how to make time to run a multiple seven-figure business, a YouTube channel, how to have a healthy relationship, all these different things. How to find your freedom number? This is really interesting because I think a lot of people don't know what their number is.

• 1:32:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:19Lewis Howes?

  So how do you find that freedom number? And just say, oh, I don't need to be some massive, you know, financially rich person. I can strive for this thing, which will give me everything else I want.

• 1:32:29Speaker 01

  Yeah. I always thought it was risky to have a day job. I just thought it was so risky and, and I met this guy Jake recently, he's got three kids. And he's like, I don't want to live a what-if life.

• 1:32:40Speaker 01

  I never wanted to live this what-if life where if I didn't try the thing, I'd regret it.

• 1:32:43Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:43Speaker 01

  And people have had these ideas of, I'd like to make a little bit of money, or I've had this idea. Jake wanted to do golf trips and it's like, I don't want to spend, he spent two years thinking about it. And in one weekend, he was able to get it going and change his life.

• 1:32:53Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, try it on the side.

• 1:32:55Speaker 01

  And so it's like, how do you get out of that what-if life? And that, my idea of the book is that people buy it and take action.

• 1:32:59Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 1:33:00Speaker 01

  For themselves.

• 1:33:00Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Yeah, don't buy it and don't not take action. Yeah, make sure you make sure you get it and take the actions on it. If you've got some type of dream or goal or project you're working on or want to work on, make sure you get this and start taking action. This is a question I ask everyone towards the end of the interview is called the three truths. So imagine hypothetical world, it's the last day on earth for you, many years away. You get to live as long as you want. You extend your life to any age possible.

• 1:33:27Speaker 01

  I like that.

• 1:33:28Lewis Howes?

  And you get to experience all of your visions and dreams in real time and they all happen.

• 1:33:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:35Lewis Howes?

  With every area of life. But for whatever reason, on this last day, everything you've ever created has to go with you. This interview, all your YouTube content, this book, like the messages you shared with the world, we don't have access to for whatever reason, hypothetical. But you get to leave one final message behind. That's all we would have to remember your information by. And I call that three truths. It's kind of your three biggest lessons. If you could fast forward in time to that final day and think about all the lessons you've already had and all the lessons you're going to have. What would be those final three truths for you?

• 1:34:15Speaker 01

  I have a belief that there's no such thing as legacy.

• 1:34:20Speaker 01

  And so if there's nothing that comes with you, then you should leave everything on the table here and not be so worried if people remember you. And so how are you behaving and how are you actually living the life you really want to live? So that would be one truth, which is just live the life you want to live now and no one's going to remember you afterwards. Elon Musk, by the way, no one's going to care about him a thousand years, 100%. So what life do you want to live and leave it all out while you're doing?

• 1:34:45Speaker 01

  Another truth, you know, people have heard this, like, how do you treat others? You know, that's a truth. I think I would say a truth I'd love to everyone is just send someone something nice today.

• 1:34:56Speaker 01

  Just a text even, like a call, a DM.

• 1:35:00Speaker 01

  And have a little, you know, I would say just with that, just be generous, like go and tell someone something nice. Right now, everyone can do it. It's available.

• 1:35:06Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:10Speaker 01

  I would, I would encourage everyone to be an entrepreneur. I got it. I would say, you know, with, with that, in terms of everyone, you know, maybe not chase entrepreneurship, but, but just be who they are. Right? I think it's, we think we're supposed to be these other people and then really just being like, well, who do I want to be?

• 1:35:26Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:26Speaker 01

  Maybe, I do think everyone should try entrepreneurship, but find out who you want to be. Don't chase the outside of it. Just chase internally.

• 1:35:32Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:32Speaker 01

  Like, oh, cool. I like these things and really going after that.

• 1:35:35Lewis Howes?

  Sure. It's beautiful, man. Before I ask the final question, I want to acknowledge you, Noah, for the consistency over, you know, 20 years of

• 1:35:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:35:44Lewis Howes?

  creating, discovering and, and overcoming yourself.

• 1:35:48Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:35:48Lewis Howes?

  I want to acknowledge you for being committed over the last three years to letting go of old things that don't serve and support a future vision that you want. Taking the courage and taking the risk to overcome that and let go of things that are scary to let go of, that are hard to let go of. I've been there too. And really having the emotional awareness to love and accept yourself. I think that's what I'm most proud of about you and acknowledge you for because a lot of people get praised for the business, the success, the accomplishments and the money they make, the numbers they have.

• 1:36:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:36:22Lewis Howes?

  But most people will never, you know, it'll never be a headline in Time Magazine about how you learned to love and accept yourself and feel worthy. And I think that's the most valuable thing you can do for yourself and those around you. So I really acknowledge you for that, man.

• 1:36:35Speaker 01

  Thank you, Jen.

• 1:36:36Lewis Howes?

  The most courage of all to feel and love yourself. And I'm sure it's probably some of the hardest challenges you've had in the last few years, going through that journey.

• 1:36:46Speaker 01

  It's, it's lonely. Yeah. And it's alone and it's yourself and we all have to face ourselves in some way and we can avoid it. Or we can eventually face it, like in, you know, this book or YouTube or relationships and you face it and you're like, oh, I'm probably better than I think. And I'm more capable than I realize.

• 1:37:02Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely, man. Love it, man. Final question. What's your definition of greatness?

• 1:37:06Speaker 01

  Oof.

• 1:37:12Speaker 01

  I think definition of greatness is that you're doing what you want. Like you're doing what you actually want. Like, what do I really want? You work your ass off. You work hard and then you're proud of it. Whether you get the accolades or recognition of any of these things, you're proud of yourself. I think that's great. There you go. No, my man. Appreciate it, brother.

• 1:37:31Lewis Howes?

  I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you, if no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy and you matter.

• 1:38:13Lewis Howes?

  And now it's time to go out there and do something great.