How To Keep Your Sh*t Together No Matter What | Kamala Masters

Because even doing the dishes can be an opportunity to wake up. We're bringing you some of our favorite gems from the archives, as chosen by our staff. This week, we're hearing from dharma teacher Kamala Masters as chosen by our executive producer DJ Cashmere. Kamala reflects on the practice of equanimity, and how to be mindful even in the "hell realm" of raising young children. Full Episode: How To Be Okay No Matter What | Kamala Masters https://www.danharris.com/p/how-to-be-okay-no-matter-what-kamala-3a8?r=4o5o&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false Join Dan's online community here http://www.danharris.com/ Follow Dan on social: Instagram https://bit.ly/3tGigG5, TikTok https://bit.ly/3FOA84J Subscribe to our YouTube Channel https://bit.ly/3FybRzDGet ready for another Meditation Party at Omega Institute! This in-person workshop brings together Dan with his friends and meditation teachers, Sebene Selassie, Jeff Warren, and for the first time, Ofosu Jones-Quartey. The event runs October 24th-26th. Sign up and learn more at eomega.org/workshops/meditation-party-2025 http://eomega.org/workshops/meditation-party-2025. To advertise on the show, contact [email protected] or visit https://advertising.libsyn.com/10HappierwithDanHarris SPONSORS: Odoo: Discover how you can take your business to the next level by visiting odoo.com http://odoo.com/. Modern management made simple.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:04Dan Harris?

  This is the 10% Happier Podcast. I'm Dan Harris.

• 0:18Dan Harris?

  Happy Friday, everybody. Today, we're talking about something we all want, but often struggle to actually achieve: equanimity. You're going to hear from one of my favorite meditation teachers, Kamala Masters, who's an awesome person. You're going to hear from her about how she cultivated some measure of balance and calm in the middle of an extremely chaotic period of her life when she was raising young children by herself. To be clear, though, this is not just about achieving equanimity with children. It's about keeping your shit together no matter what's going on. As you may have noticed, there's a lot going on in the world, so this is a discussion of evergreen importance. As you also may have noticed, we've been doing Friday episodes of late where we share golden nuggets from our vast archive

• 1:01Dan Harris?

  as selected by members of the team here at 10% Happier. Today's clip, which again is from Kamala Masters, the clip was chosen by DJ Kashmir, who's our executive producer, who himself has young children. In a moment after this quick break, you're going to hear DJ describe why he picked the clip, and then we will hear the clip from Kamala. But first, and very quickly, I want to remind you to come check out what we're doing over at danharris.com. Paid subscribers now get guided meditations that come with all of our Monday, Wednesday episodes. Custom guided meditations, really designed to help you take the learnings from the conversations here on the show on Mondays and Wednesdays, and kind of put them in your brain, in your mind, in a deeper way.

• 1:43Dan Harris?

  Paid subscribers also get live meditation and Q&A sessions on video every Tuesday at 4 Eastern. I'm going to do the next one solo, but sometimes I do it with our Teacher of the Month. In September, our Teacher of the Month has been Vinnie Ferraro. In October, it will be the great Seb A. Selassie. Speaking of Seb, if you want to meditate with me and Seb in person, we will be back at the Omega Institute for another installment of meditation party from October 24th through 26th. There's a link in the show notes. Okay, quick break, then we'll come back and we'll hear from DJ, and then Kamala Masters. I love Monarch for many reasons, and many of the people on my team actually use Monarch in their personal lives.

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• 3:07Dan Harris?

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• 3:37Speaker 01

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• 4:13Speaker 02

  And I think all the time about this moment from Dan's conversation with Kamala Masters a few years back. This was an episode about equanimity and she just did an incredible job laying out the definition of equanimity, what it is and what it isn't, how to practice it. But actually, the moment that stuck with me the most comes right at the end of the interview where she's talking about what it was like to try to develop a practice as a young mom raising three kids on her own, which she calls a hell realm. And essentially, what she talks about is learning from her meditation teacher how to turn everyday moments, recurring, repetitive, sort of cyclical care task moments, like

• 4:57Speaker 02

  washing the dishes, how to turn those into the heart of her meditation practice, basically, and how she learned to feel the water on her hands when she was washing the dishes and to notice the thoughts arising in her mind when she was washing the dishes. And I just found this story and the way she tells it so evocative and compelling. I'm someone with two little kids at home and a lot of domestic responsibilities and it can be very easy for me to slip into a story about how the conditions in my life are such that it's too hard for me to practice the way that I might want. And this story of hers just sort of cuts to the heart of that delusion and is this sort of beacon for me saying, no, you can practice.

• 5:42Speaker 02

  Like if you're alive, you can practice. You can find the moments in your life to turn into a place of practice. And I just find it really compelling. I find it really inspiring and to see how she started and how far she's come in her practice, it gives me a model and a north star. And I definitely can't say that I always wash the dishes mindfully. But what I can say is this reminder has been helpful to me again and again and again that we can find these little moments in our day and turn those into meditative moments. Yeah, I hope you enjoy it as well.

• 6:21Dan Harris?

  Thank you, DJ. Okay, so now let's hear the portion of the interview with Kamala Masters that resonated so hard with DJ. Just a few little notes here for context. You're going to hear Kamala mention the term metta, which is often called loving kindness, which is a practice where you send a series of phrases toward a series of people. So you envision people and then you send them phrases like happy, healthy, safe, live with ease. Kamala teaches metta, like many, if not all Buddhist teachers, but really the focus is on equanimity practice, which, as you will hear, is a little bit different. Also, you're going to hear her mention her teacher, Munindra G, Anagarika Munindra, but she refers to him as a Munindra

• 7:03Dan Harris?

  G. He was also a major teacher for Joseph Goldstein and Sharon Salzberg. He died back in 2003. So that's just a little bit of context. Okay, let's hear from Kamala Masters now. Would you be willing to describe in a little bit more detail, if we wanted to do equanimity practice formally, how would we do that? What does that look like? What are the instructions?

• 7:25Speaker 03

  Well, usually it would start out in our tradition, it would start out with doing metta first, but you could go directly to equanimity. So one step to take is to, I'm going to put a little spot for Sharon. Sharon teaches equanimity beautifully, Sharon Salzberg. And I have equanimity online at Dharma Seed also. The way I teach it is I would teach metta first, to develop a heart of metta for yourself, and then, you know, go to the individual beings as we go through oneself, benefactor, dear friend, neutral person, and then difficult person, and then all beings. All beings is really helpful for a lot of

• 8:05Speaker 03

  people. So that then when we go from metta, usually when I teach equanimity, I do

• 8:13Speaker 03

  The first days of Metta, and then we go on to equanimity, where we are developing equanimity with Metta already in our hearts. So we're not going to do the Metta practice. Now we're going to do the equanimity practice. And actually, equanimity, you know, it has these individuals that we go through. Equanimity starts with a neutral person because with that neutral person, we can more easily develop equanimity towards that person. So the phrases are different. The equanimity phrases are, they're more like statements. They're not offerings. They're more like statements of understanding. So in equanimity practice, we're understanding how to be equanimous within us

• 8:56Speaker 03

  so that we can understand with equanimity that person we are relating to. So one understanding would be, pleasure and pain arise and pass away. This is how it is. And there are other things like gain and sorrow arise and pass away. This is how it is in life. So in that way, these are phrases that have to do with wisdom, where we're coming to understand their deep meaning. So we start off using particular phrases, and maybe we use a phrase like, may you have balance in your life? And then maybe we go on to a benefactor, and we use a phrase like,

• 9:40Speaker 03

  birth and death are part of life. These are phrases that are very wisdom oriented. They're not like sending equanimity to that person. They're very oriented towards understanding that this is the way it is right now. So say now, next you go to a person that's close to you, and then you remember something about that person that they're going through that could be very difficult. And then you remember that situation, that person, and then you will say a phrase like, this is how it is in your life right now. This is how your life is unfolding.

• 10:25Speaker 03

  May I open to how it is in your life right now? And so you're always in your phrases developing that kind of wisdom that's going to align with how it really is in life.

• 10:41Speaker 03

  And this is what brings equanimity, that we're not reacting to it, that we're aligning in ever-deepening ways to the unfolding of life.

• 10:52Dan Harris?

  Yeah, I think that's what you mean when you say these are wisdom phrases, because they direct us to the truth, however uncomfortable, hopefully in a way that allows us to relax into it. In terms of the instructions, I just want to repeat them back to you just to make sure I've got it. From what I heard, you would advise, if you've got the time, to start with some metta or loving-kindness practice, so we might sit in a reasonably quiet place, close our eyes, bring to mind an easy person, envision this person or your dog or your cat, send them the classical phrases, which are often, may be happy, may be safe, healthy, live with ease. Move on to yourself, a mentor or benefactor, a neutral person, a difficult person or a person with whom you're having difficulty, and then all beings.

• 11:35Dan Harris?

  So, once the mind is tenderized with a little bit of love and warmth, then you could move to this equanimity practice that you described, which would be, again, to call specific people to mind, maybe an easy person, yourself, and then go from there. And to say phrases that direct your mind and perhaps maybe as somewhat of an offering, the mind of the person who's your meta-target or your equanimity target in the moment of gain and loss are inevitable, birth and death are inevitable, to put us into in this mind state of, this is the way things are.

• 12:12Speaker 03

  Right, you were really good at mentioning all of that, Dan. Yeah, so you reviewed it well. And you might even use the last phrase, which is sometimes hard for people to get. The last phrase has to do with karma, the actual traditional phrase, which is, "All beings are owners of their karma. Their happiness or unhappiness depends upon their actions and not upon my wishes." All beings are owners of their karma.

• 12:43Speaker 03

  Their happiness or unhappiness depends upon their actions and not upon my wishes. So I have shortened that phrase when I'm working in the equanimity practice with my own children, for example, to say, "All beings have their own journey." That's it. Because inwardly, I do understand that now my children are grown and seen them go through a lot. And I could never really control their journey as much as I tried, you know? And to say, "You have your own journey." And also included in that is a meta, I could say that, "You have your own journey and all beings have their own journey."

• 13:27Speaker 03

  Included in that is a deep understanding in my heart that "I'll help you as much as I can, and I know that the unfolding of your life is really beyond my control." So that's karma too, understanding of karma, so got woven together.

• 13:45Dan Harris?

  How does that work? Are you able to achieve some sort of equanimity when it comes to your own children?

• 13:51Speaker 03

  More. I have not been always equanimous with my children, that's true. I just have blown my top sometimes, but I never really harmed them physically, of course. And I know that's hard, you know, that it's really hard. It's really frustrating. I raised three children on my own when I was in my twenties. It was a hell realm. It's what sent me to the Dharma. So I really understand that it's not easy and we're gonna blow our top and we're gonna say things that we regret and hopefully, you know, we can overcome it and ask for forgiveness. But we're just human. That could be an equanimity phrase.

• 14:36Speaker 03

  Remember that we're all just human.

• 14:40Dan Harris?

  It sounds to me also like a self compassion phrase.

• 14:43Speaker 03

  Absolutely, yeah.

• 14:46Dan Harris?

  Another thing about equanimity is I've been taught is that it allows you to come close to other people's suffering, to keep your cool, so that you can be useful when people need you. Because if your mind is balanced, you're not freaking out in the face of somebody else freaking out, then that could serve you and other people really well.

• 15:01Speaker 03

  That's right. We can always bring it along. We can make it be part of metta, too. Say, for example, somebody's difficult in our own hearts and we're doing our best to sending metta to that person. I offer you my goodwill and things are just as they are. Just adding that equanimity phrase to it just says, doing the best I can and things are just as they are right now. It's important to add that right now to that phrase because it changes all the time.

• 15:31Dan Harris?

  So I've noticed.

• 15:32Speaker 03

  Yes. Yeah.

• 15:35Dan Harris?

  I do want to pick up on a phrase you used earlier. You said something about, in the face of difficult circumstances or people, the job is to handle your own mind. And I just think that's worth amplifying because that's a massively empowering and I think even liberating thing to teach people, which is that you can't take responsibility for everything that happens with somebody else, but you can take responsibility for your own mind.

• 16:05Speaker 03

  Absolutely, yeah. And when, if you really put our thoughts around it, it's like the impact that we can make with our energy, first of all, needs to be with ourselves to look what's going on in our own minds, because that's what really can change. We really have the possibility of making change in the world, of course, but mostly...

• 16:30Speaker 03

  The potential for change happens in here, in our own hearts. As doing those simple things, I've repeated several times, to know what's beneficial and to nurture that, to know what's not beneficial and to refrain from that. And so when we can even know that much, we can act with a lot of power in the world. When going back to Manindra, he would say, I heard him say several times in different instances about how when there is a purity of the mind, even in the moment, you know, when there is no hatred, no greed, no delusion, or a lessening of that, the mind is very powerful.

• 17:11Speaker 03

  What it says, what it does can have a great impact around us. Just the transmission of having a person like that in our presence, even that having a person like that is very powerful. So we can have a greater impact if we pay attention to what's going on inside.

• 17:30Dan Harris?

  Before I let you go, I want to, you talked about raising three children on your own, and that bring you to the Dharma. I suspect there are some people listening who are like, whoa, tell me more about that. How did you become such a deeply respected and experienced teacher in this very demanding discipline while raising three children? How did you get your practice time in at home?

• 17:59Speaker 03

  I practiced at home a lot because I couldn't go to retreats, but sometimes I could. And I told you, my first teacher was Manindraji. And a lot of you in the audience may have heard this story if you've listened to talks before. It's about how I learned how to practice at home, which was so important because practicing at home in my daily life, walking through the hallways, opening doors, washing dishes, helped me when I went to my first retreat, be able to have continuity in my practice. So it was the continuity that really helped me. When I first came to the Dharma, I brought Manindra to Maui to teach a retreat. And so he did.

• 18:40Speaker 03

  And he came home with us and the three children, or did I have four at the time? No, I had three. So anyway, he said, do you sit every day? I said, no, I can't sit every day. And he said, well, what do you do? And I just, right away, I said, mostly what I do is wash dishes. So he said, okay, let's go to the sink. So he stood right beside me as if we were under the Bodhi tree. And he taught me how to wash the dishes, like just when feeling the warm water, just no feeling, feeling or warmth, warmth, or what are you thinking now? He would ask me, I'm worrying, worrying, worrying. Okay, no worrying. We did all that. And then he said, do you do walking meditation?

• 19:23Speaker 03

  And I said, no. He said, well, where do you walk? And I said, usually from the dining room to the bedroom and back forth. He said, let's go there. And we went there and he taught me how to do walking meditation every time I stepped in that hallway. So that's how I learned. And that's what I did for a long, long time. I took his advice and I did it. And then when I would go to sit, as soon as they gave the instructions, the mind would just take it in and I would just say, oh, okay, I'll do that. So I would just go to the breath, just be there. When it goes to something else, notice that. Okay, come back to the breath. Okay. I was so desperate, I would do anything.

• 20:05Speaker 03

  When I went to my first long retreat, it was a very, I could see it. Yeah, I can practice, you know? I can really practice sitting down and being quiet. And yeah, it was really helpful to do that practice at home, everyday practice.

• 20:22Dan Harris?

  I think that story is going to be potentially extremely helpful and empowering for anybody with little kids at home, or anybody who feels that their life is too busy to do any sustained level of practice. We could just do it walking wherever we have to walk already and while doing whatever chores we have to do already. So it's really helpful.

• 20:41Speaker 03

  I'm glad.

• 20:47Dan Harris?

  Thank you to the great Kamala Masters, also to the great DJ Kashmir for suggesting that excerpt. We will put a link to the full episode if you want to go back and listen to that. We'll put a link in the show notes. Also, speaking of URLs, go check out dan harris dot com. If you sign up, you'll get custom companion meditations for all of our Monday, Wednesday episodes and weekly live guided meditation sessions every Tuesday at 4 Eastern. And if you want to meditate with me in person, don't forget to check out the link in the show notes to the upcoming meditation party at the Omega Institute the weekend of October 24th. Finally, thank you very much to everybody who works so hard on the show. Our producers are Tara Anderson, Caroline Keenan, and Eleanor Vasili. Our recording and engineering is handled by the great folks over at Pod People. Lauren Smith

• 21:32Dan Harris?

  is our managing producer. Marissa Schneiderman is our senior producer. DJ Kashmir is our executive producer, and Nick Thorburn of the band Islands wrote our theme.