266 Alanis Morissette on Fame, Finding Purpose, and Emotional Healing

"Greatness is self-knowledge expressed." - Alanis Morissette If you enjoyed this episode, check out show notes and more at http://lewishowes.com/266 Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 266 with Alanis Morissette.

• 0:06Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:32Lewis Howes?

  Welcome everyone to a very special edition of the School of Greatness podcast. I'm so excited for our guest today. I had a pleasure of sitting down and connecting with the one and only Alanis Morissette. And for those that don't know who Alanis is, let me just share a little bit about her. Since 1995, Alanis has been one of the most influential singer-songwriter musicians in contemporary music. She's earned seven Grammy Awards with an additional 14 nominations, a Golden Globe nomination, and sales of over 60 million albums worldwide. In 2015, Alanis was inducted into the Canadian Music Hall of Fame. And outside of entertainment, she's an avid supporter of female empowerment as well as spiritual, psychological, and physical wellness.

• 1:17Lewis Howes?

  And we had an incredible time on this interview. And I want to share a few of the things that you're going to take away from this, among many of the other points that she talks about in this session. And one is how to heal in relationships, not actually after the breakup healing, but during a relationship, how to heal in relationships. And she talks about some of the relationships she's been in and what she's learned from those relationships. The idea of multiple intelligences and how the education system doesn't make room for those with our kids. How Western society has allowed for men and women to both have beta and alpha roles in recent years. What Alanis has learned from the success of Jagged Little Pill, the 20th anniversary of her famous album

• 2:00Lewis Howes?

  that sold over 30 million copies worldwide. And so much more about what Alanis has been up to, her thoughts on staying relevant and what famous means to her. And her message and her mission for what she's up to moving forward. I'm very excited about this, so please make sure to share this message out to the world. Share this with your friends on social media, lewishouse.com/266. Let's get the word out there about this one. And if you are a new listener to the podcast, make sure to head back to iTunes and click the subscribe button. Because we've got some great guests coming up and we do this every Monday, Wednesday and Friday. All about teaching you how to become great in your life, your business, your relationships, your spirituality, your health.

• 2:44Lewis Howes?

  And I'm so excited to bring and introduce to you the one and only Alanis Morissette.

• 2:55Lewis Howes?

  Welcome everyone back to the podcast. I'm very excited today we have an incredible guest, Alanis Morissette. Good to see you.

• 3:00Speaker 01

  Good to see you. Thanks for having me.

• 3:02Lewis Howes?

  Very excited. Right when I walked into your office, I was like, I feel healed already.

• 3:06Speaker 01

  It smells good in here.

• 3:06Lewis Howes?

  It smells good. There's like crystals and all these spiritual books and everything's Feng Shui. And I'm like, oh, I just feel like a piece.

• 3:14Speaker 01

  Everything's gonna be okay when you're in here.

• 3:15Lewis Howes?

  And you have a bed in your office. I was like, this is amazing.

• 3:17Speaker 01

  I learned that from Jenji Cohen, who is the creator of Weeds. I went in for my initial meeting with her and she had a bed in her room. And I just, I fell to my knees. I just thought, this is the most genius woman I've ever met. And she has a bed in her room.

• 3:29Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, way better than just a couch or a futon.

• 3:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, if you're gonna go for an actual 16 minute nap, you wanna go horizontal full.

• 3:36Lewis Howes?

  I love this. So I'm so excited. I wanna dive in and speak to your heart right off the bat.

• 3:43Speaker 01

  Okay. That's the best.

• 3:45Lewis Howes?

  Right? And I'm curious, who was the most influential person for you growing up before you reached 22?

• 3:53Speaker 01

  My grandmother on my maternal side, I would say. They escaped during the revolution in Hungary in 1956. My mom and my aunt and my grandfather, who actually passed away when I was two months old. So I never really hung out with him. But just everything my grandmother went through and her European amazing feistiness, fire, I feel like it's in my bones and in my soul. So she was, she was also the woman that just would hold me. I think touch is such a big deal in the world.

• 4:20Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 4:21Speaker 01

  You know, appropriate touch. Well, that's the thing in America, too. I think a lot of people under touch each other like crazy because we're all afraid of sexual harassment or sexual inappropriate behavior, but we're all walking around for the

• 4:32Lewis Howes?

  Needing it. That's my love language. It's like, when I feel touched, whenever someone touches me, it's like I just, you don't have to say anything to me.

• 4:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:39Lewis Howes?

  I feel loved.

• 4:40Speaker 01

  Everything's okay.

• 4:41Lewis Howes?

  Everything is okay. Just rub my face, pet me like a dog.

• 4:44Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 4:45Lewis Howes?

  I don't care.

• 4:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:46Lewis Howes?

  Just touch me.

• 4:47Speaker 01

  It is.

• 4:47Lewis Howes?

  Um, okay, so you're

• 4:49Speaker 01

  I'm glad everyone listening knows that.

• 4:50Lewis Howes?

  Everyone knows that. So, yes, appropriately, if you're not my girlfriend or in a relationship with me.

• 4:55Speaker 01

  Right, exactly.

• 4:55Lewis Howes?

  Um, so your grandmother, right?

• 4:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:59Lewis Howes?

  And what's the biggest lesson you learned from her growing up?

• 5:03Speaker 01

  I think her empowerment. She was always an alpha and I had, I had been around, I mean, I was mired, the whole planet was mired still unfortunately in patriarchy and a little bit of misogyny and a little bit of disempowered versions of alpha beta. We talked about that briefly before we got on. Um, but anyway, so she was, was a walking example of this empowered female presence that was unapologetic about being an alpha.

• 5:28Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 5:28Speaker 01

  So I was in contexts where if I was an alpha, I felt like I was literally going to get stabbed in the face and my head was going to get chopped off. So I kept looking at her going, well, she's still alive. She's not, you know, she's not getting chopped down. Her wings aren't being clipped.

• 5:40Lewis Howes?

  Right. And this is growing up in Canada too, right?

• 5:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, Canada and Germany, we, we were there for a few years.

• 5:45Lewis Howes?

  A few years, right? But you don't speak in, that was when you were like five, right?

• 5:47Speaker 01

  Uh, three to six.

• 5:48Lewis Howes?

  So you don't speak any.

• 5:49Speaker 01

  I used to, but it's completely gone. People say it's in my unconscious. I'm not so sure about that.

• 5:53Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, right. Exactly. Okay.

• 5:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:55Lewis Howes?

  Uh, so she taught you about how you could be this presence and not get your edge cut, cut off.

• 6:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, be, have an opinion, be empowered. I mean, not to say that I didn't experiment with being reduced.

• 6:06Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 6:07Speaker 01

  And low self-esteem. I mean, I feel like I've been through every

• 6:11Lewis Howes?

  Emotion possible, right?

• 6:12Speaker 01

  Yes, and every version of self-hate all the way to self-love. So, um, but she was, I kept referencing her and then also she, you know, I'd come home like this prodigal daughter, granddaughter in her case, and she would just hold me and just say, oh sweetheart, you're working too much. And she was great at mirroring. I just think it's such a big stage of development to have people verbally say back to you what they see. And I was in all these different contexts where I was being exploited and, you know, as a young prodigy, I was, you know, a lot of people were saying certain things back to me in order to get something. My grandmother had no need to get anything. She was a giver.

• 6:45Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 6:45Speaker 01

  From me.

• 6:46Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 6:46Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 6:47Lewis Howes?

  That's awesome. What about your parents? Which one influenced you more?

• 6:50Speaker 01

  I think they both did. You know, there were, there were challenges and beauties to our interaction, to be totally transparent. I think with most people, there's, there's a few different colors going on. But one of the, the most amazing qualities, I think, that they instilled in me was a sense of limitlessness. Um, and they used to just say, you gotta be a go-getter, you gotta be a go-getter. So sometimes that was actually a little extreme because there are times where I actually don't want to go get. I want to go lie down.

• 7:18Lewis Howes?

  Relax, yeah.

• 7:19Speaker 01

  And actually, my dad was really good at that. My dad's very sensual, totally into wine, travel, internationalism. I think Canada's pretty good for that, too. There was, after, um, high school, a lot of people don't go to university or college right away. They go traveling the planet. It's almost like a rite of passage. So my family, both parents, instilled that love of the planet.

• 7:38Lewis Howes?

  Really? Everyone in Canada does that? Most people?

• 7:40Speaker 01

  I mean, most.

• 7:41Lewis Howes?

  In the UK and Europe, they do that, too.

• 7:42Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 7:43Lewis Howes?

  They go for like a year or two.

• 7:44Speaker 01

  Yeah. And in, in America, it's just seems as though you graduate from high school and then you're right into college.

• 7:49Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 7:49Speaker 01

  Obsessively so, almost.

• 7:50Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 7:51Speaker 01

  And I, you know, my parents are both teachers and they've been teaching since, you know, for forty some odd years. So, education is huge in me. I'm unschooling my son. I'm obsessed with the multiple intelligences.

• 8:03Lewis Howes?

  Did you say you're unschooling him?

• 8:04Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 8:04Lewis Howes?

  What does that mean?

• 8:05Speaker 01

  It means educating him in a very organic way. And, and I do reference Howard Gardner, the multiple intelligence theory, because I just think we have so many intelligences. People say, oh, you're so smart. And I often follow up with, well, smart how? Like physically smart?

• 8:18Lewis Howes?

  Book smart, right.

• 8:20Speaker 01

  Intellectually smart? Socially smart? Intrapersonally, like internal interiority smart? Well, what kind of smart am I, you know? Or you, or anyone, frankly.

• 8:28Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 8:28Speaker 01

  So, um, so as long as a, a lot of the, um, intelligences are considered in my interaction with him, which they are every day, I feel he's being educated well.

• 8:39Lewis Howes?

  So he's not going to a specific, traditional school?

• 8:42Speaker 01

  No. School of Life. And I have to tell you, I-

• 8:44Lewis Howes?

  School of Greatness.

• 8:45Speaker 01

  -dot com.

• 8:48Speaker 01

  Right here. Yeah, I want to make sure he's highly educated and that he's exposed to as much as he possibly can be. And of course, if he wants to go to conventional schooling, I would only support that.

• 8:58Lewis Howes?

  Sure. You know, it's interesting not to talk about me, but just to mention.

• 9:01Speaker 01

  Why not?

• 9:02Lewis Howes?

  Oh, I mean.

• 9:02Speaker 01

  You're here.

• 9:02Lewis Howes?

  You know, I was, I was always in the bottom four of my class all the way through high school and.

• 9:07Speaker 01

  In what area, though?

• 9:08Lewis Howes?

  On the grade card. So on the grade card, I went to a private boarding school when I was in eighth grade and they would rank us for our class. So.

• 9:15Speaker 01

  As, under what terms?

• 9:17Lewis Howes?

  For the GPA.

• 9:18Speaker 01

  Okay, got it.

• 9:19Lewis Howes?

  So like, you know, the highest GPA, you were number one.

• 9:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, got it.

• 9:21Lewis Howes?

  If you were the lowest GPA in that class for that semester, you were number, the last, whatever.

• 9:25Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 9:26Lewis Howes?

  And I knew how many students were in our class. So I was always in the bottom four. So the, I mean, it just always made me feel ignorant, stupid, not worthy.

• 9:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:35Lewis Howes?

  And not smart enough.

• 9:36Speaker 01

  It's not awesome, the way that they can judge and assess and testing. And then it doesn't take into consideration temperaments because some people are quote unquote pure geniuses, but under the, under the terms of the context of a test.

• 9:48Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 9:48Speaker 01

  The board is all levels are up, the brain's gone, everything's offline. You're like, I can't access my genius. So, you know, not to completely unequivocally just diss the entire education system around the planet, but I'm going to, no, I'm just kidding.

• 10:01Lewis Howes?

  But it sucks.

• 10:02Speaker 01

  But it sucks. No, there's just room for, for having each unique snowflake of a creature have their own way and style and brain and everything be considered.

• 10:10Lewis Howes?

  And how they learn. And that's why, you know, I, I never really believed in school, but I believed in growth and education.

• 10:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, me too.

• 10:16Lewis Howes?

  And that's why I was like, I want to create a, a school of greatness that's not about like traditional learning.

• 10:21Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 10:21Lewis Howes?

  So thank you for being a professor.

• 10:23Speaker 01

  Oh, you got it.

• 10:24Lewis Howes?

  To all the students in the world.

• 10:25Speaker 01

  I'll give any keynote talks.

• 10:26Lewis Howes?

  Exactly, exactly. So you've been unschooling, but your parents are teachers.

• 10:30Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 10:31Lewis Howes?

  That's interesting. What do they think about that?

• 10:32Speaker 01

  They, I mean, they're so obsessed with education, especially my father. My mom's obsessed with education, but in a service oriented way. Not that my dad doesn't serve, but he's obsessed more in the curriculum and, and the cross section of what's available content wise.

• 10:47Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 10:48Speaker 01

  So they, they love it. They respect me. They, they know what I'm up to.

• 10:52Lewis Howes?

  They don't think that he should be in school and.

• 10:55Speaker 01

  To be honest, I don't actually care what anybody thinks. And.

• 10:59Lewis Howes?

  Amen to that.

• 11:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, I want to make sure my son's hyper educated.

• 11:03Lewis Howes?

  Of course.

• 11:03Speaker 01

  And, and loved and that his style of learning will be taken into consideration.

• 11:08Lewis Howes?

  That's cool. So how are you handling that? Are you teaching him? Do you bring in other experts to teach certain things?

• 11:13Speaker 01

  It's a combination and it's exhausting. I just want to. Make sure I say that. I mean, taking this on is an undertaking. It's a, it's three people's full-time job, if nothing more.

• 11:22Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 11:23Speaker 01

  So, but it's worth it to me. And yeah, we have some people come in. He has a big community of aunts and uncles, all of whom have this area of jurisdiction where they shine. And you know, one brings in art and we make mobiles, you know, Uncle Eric and then other, you know, other women come in and we do yoga and dancing and it's, it's not even overly planned. It's very child-led. So he may stay in some moments, working on a project, literally for four hours straight. And then other things will present it to him and he has a three-second bandwidth for it and we're done.

• 11:53Lewis Howes?

  Wow. What a lucky kid.

• 11:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, I feel lucky to-

• 11:56Lewis Howes?

  It's not forced to like go through these, every hour of different learning-

• 12:00Speaker 01

  It's not rigid structure.

• 12:02Lewis Howes?

  Wow. I just think the years wasted of spending time on things that probably didn't support me in any way.

• 12:09Speaker 01

  Weren't supporting-

• 12:10Lewis Howes?

  Were supporting-

• 12:11Speaker 01

  The you-ness being fluffed.

• 12:13Lewis Howes?

  Right. You know, a lot of ways I look at education is like the people skills that I learned, the connecting with people, working on teams with my peers.

• 12:22Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 12:22Lewis Howes?

  The sports that I played, I would never take that back. And without school, I wouldn't have been able to develop as a human-

• 12:27Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 12:28Lewis Howes?

  In those extracurricular activities where I did thrive.

• 12:31Speaker 01

  Yes, we have to talk about the great parts of school.

• 12:33Lewis Howes?

  Exactly, right, yeah.

• 12:34Speaker 01

  Me too, the socialization. Basically, the social parts.

• 12:37Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 12:37Speaker 01

  I did love English and drama. You know, we did a lot of acting. Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf is one of my great memories in school. In English class, I was, I was playing the female part and my teacher took on the male part and the poor fellow students were subject to, are just basically going through the whole play in English class. But that, the linguistic intelligence, that sort of wordsmith-ness, you know, I was drooling.

• 12:59Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 12:59Speaker 01

  So there were classes that stood out and then others that just, I was barely there.

• 13:02Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 13:03Speaker 01

  Sleeping.

• 13:03Lewis Howes?

  What was, I was sleeping almost every day. It was like, plus I was eating the worst foods ever because I wasn't educated on my health.

• 13:09Speaker 01

  And our brains aren't even happy to-

• 13:10Lewis Howes?

  I'm just eating like Pop-Tarts all day or something, you know.

• 13:13Speaker 01

  Macaroni and cheese, which, you know, has its moment.

• 13:16Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it does.

• 13:16Speaker 01

  They all have their moments.

• 13:17Lewis Howes?

  Truffled macaroni and cheese. You cannot beat that. There's some great truffled mac and cheese here in town.

• 13:22Speaker 01

  In LA, yeah.

• 13:22Lewis Howes?

  Oh my goodness.

• 13:25Lewis Howes?

  I want to know about your biggest heartbreak from your teen years. What was the boyfriend?

• 13:31Speaker 01

  Oh, you mean a romantic heartbreak? Cause there's so many versions of heartbreak.

• 13:34Lewis Howes?

  Of course, of course. I mean, like the, the boy that, man, just took it all away, just stole your soul. Or just like made you feel like, oh, like this ache, this agony. Who was that? Maybe you don't have to tell me the name, but what was the experience?

• 13:48Speaker 01

  We'll call him Oliver.

• 13:49Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 13:52Speaker 01

  It was, oh, I think in terms of temperament and Elaine Aaron, who talks about highly sensitive people or non-highly sensitive. 20% of people are highly sensitive animals as well.

• 14:03Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 14:03Speaker 01

  And that doesn't mean non-highly sensitive people are not sensitive. It just means it's a trait.

• 14:08Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 14:08Speaker 01

  So a highly sensitive person walks in the room and they get 500 pieces of information. A non-highly sensitive walks in a room, gets 50 pieces of information. So Elaine Aaron says the, the highest amount of satisfaction is when two highly sensitives are together.

• 14:24Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 14:24Speaker 01

  That doesn't mean that other versions of couplings aren't awesome.

• 14:27Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 14:29Speaker 01

  So this one particular person was highly sensitive and so was I. We were both, you know, pretty traumatized. So there was that love addiction thing going on as well. And then just straight up chemistry.

• 14:41Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. How old were you with this?

• 14:43Speaker 01

  I was in my mid teens, 16, and I had two lives going on. So I would be at school and then I would go to the studio and work in the studio till two or three in the morning.

• 14:54Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 14:54Speaker 01

  And then come back to class and that's the class I would sleep in in the morning.

• 14:58Lewis Howes?

  Cause we're like, this is boring.

• 14:59Speaker 01

  It was not, I mean, God bless. It was history and actually appreciated history, but I had had four hours sleep. So.

• 15:05Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 15:06Speaker 01

  So there was the my age chronological age world. And then there were all the people I was hanging out with who were 20 years old.

• 15:12Lewis Howes?

  You were an adult at night and a teenager during the day.

• 15:15Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 15:16Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. And when did that start? You were like 12 to 14 range when you were?

• 15:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, I started a record company when I was 10.

• 15:22Lewis Howes?

  What?

• 15:22Speaker 01

  Because.

• 15:23Lewis Howes?

  Little entrepreneur.

• 15:24Speaker 01

  A little freak of nature. Pretty precocious, but also sensitive and terrifying. I think what was happening then was nobody was signing kids. Now they sign you when you're an embryo, you know, like you're, you have talent, let's sign you.

• 15:38Lewis Howes?

  You have one YouTube hit.

• 15:39Speaker 01

  I know. How do we cha-ching at you?

• 15:41Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 15:42Speaker 01

  So then I just thought, okay, I had shopped a deal, if you can believe it. I'd made a record, written songs at around nine with a friend of the family.

• 15:50Lewis Howes?

  Around nine?

• 15:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it came out when I was 11 on our, on our label that we started because there was no other way to do it. So that had kickstarted my passion for songwriting and it was by no means autobiographical at that point. There was not much content to.

• 16:04Lewis Howes?

  It's like the boy on the playground.

• 16:06Speaker 01

  Pretty much. Well, I wish, it was more about like more mature relationships, but it was still fictional. It was still fantasy.

• 16:13Lewis Howes?

  That's funny.

• 16:14Speaker 01

  But that's when I started to have this, this double life of older, slightly sometimes inappropriate dynamics, where I was thrust into these environments where I could fake that I was a little more mature and poised.

• 16:28Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 16:29Speaker 01

  But I was still a child.

• 16:30Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 16:31Speaker 01

  And then there were.

• 16:32Lewis Howes?

  You were 11, of course you were a child.

• 16:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, come on, I know.

• 16:34Lewis Howes?

  I didn't even.

• 16:35Speaker 01

  You'd be surprised though, a lot of people.

• 16:36Lewis Howes?

  When I was 25, I didn't even know what I was doing in my life. You know what I mean? It's like you were 10.

• 16:40Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 16:41Lewis Howes?

  That's crazy, okay.

• 16:42Speaker 01

  It is a little crazy.

• 16:42Lewis Howes?

  So when did, and you moved to LA when you were about, was it 19 that I read?

• 16:46Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 16:46Lewis Howes?

  Okay. Had you been to LA before then?

• 16:50Speaker 01

  I had.

• 16:51Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 16:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, I had been down here during the Olympics when I was 10 years old.

• 16:55Lewis Howes?

  Oh wow, that's awesome.

• 16:56Speaker 01

  That was great.

• 16:57Lewis Howes?

  That's amazing. I went to my first Olympics in London, the last one.

• 17:00Speaker 01

  Oh, what, what event?

• 17:02Lewis Howes?

  Uh, I went to some beach volleyball, I went to a couple of basketball games and then the handball. Do you know handball?

• 17:09Speaker 01

  Very European.

• 17:10Lewis Howes?

  I play on the USA national team.

• 17:12Speaker 01

  Oh, cool.

• 17:13Lewis Howes?

  So.

• 17:13Speaker 01

  Didn't know that.

• 17:14Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I've been, I moved to New York City to go, to go make this team, to train and learn this new sport because it's always been a dream to play in the Olympics. So I found a sport that I felt like I could make the USA national team.

• 17:24Speaker 01

  Good for you.

• 17:25Lewis Howes?

  And then I trained for the last four and a half years and we didn't qualify for this upcoming Olympics.

• 17:29Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 17:30Lewis Howes?

  So it's just been a journey of, you know, going after my dreams. We didn't make it happen, but. I went to go watch and experience. I played against some of the national teams that were playing in the Olympics. So it was just cool to go say, hey, I played against these guys who are in the Olympics and watch it live and be like, oh, they're kind of like my buddies, you know?

• 17:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, no kidding.

• 17:46Lewis Howes?

  Um, the Olympics are unbelievable.

• 17:48Speaker 01

  The energy there. Although I was horrified a few years ago when I was watching, I used to competitively swim for years and I remember watching.

• 17:55Lewis Howes?

  You did? What, in high school?

• 17:56Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah.

• 17:57Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 17:57Speaker 01

  We trained eight days a week. It was crazy, like twice on Sundays.

• 18:01Lewis Howes?

  For a, a sport, up all night, recording music, going to school all day.

• 18:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's.

• 18:07Lewis Howes?

  No wonder you were so angry.

• 18:11Speaker 01

  Exhausted. No, it's actually work addiction 101. I mean, I was a work addict. That's how I cut my teeth. That was the perfect addiction because it's the respectable addiction in America. This gentleman, Brian Robinson, I've been working with for years, actually now, almost maybe a couple of years, um, who's a genius. He wrote the work addiction, sort of the seminal book. Diana Fassil and Brian Robinson wrote the seminal books in my mind, on work addiction recovery. And he's been helping me. But it starts early. It starts with the overachieving thing. I know you know nothing about this.

• 18:41Lewis Howes?

  Right, exactly, yeah.

• 18:42Speaker 01

  And so a lot of people look at the overachieving child, the straight A creatures or whatever, and they go, wow, this person's amazing. Meanwhile, they're actually kind of suffering.

• 18:50Lewis Howes?

  Why do you think you were pursuing the overachievement in your teens?

• 18:55Speaker 01

  Well, it was one way to be loved. You know, if I was moderate, or if I was even quote unquote, less than average, I would be even more invisible than I was, you know? So for me, it was about being seen. And I could tell there were certain things that were on people's radars, you know? Oh, my talent. Oh, my brain. Oh, my poise or whatever. The top 10 things, fill in the blank, were the things that got the attention that I was so starving for.

• 19:20Lewis Howes?

  Why were you starving for? Were your parents not giving, seeing you?

• 19:24Speaker 01

  In some ways, yeah.

• 19:25Lewis Howes?

  We're like sister, brother and sister. I felt the same. I was the youngest of four.

• 19:29Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 19:29Lewis Howes?

  And I never felt seen or acknowledged or, you know, getting the love that I wanted because my parents were just working multiple jobs, trying to take care of, it was like they were crazy because there was four kids running around the house.

• 19:39Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 19:40Lewis Howes?

  So there's nothing to blame them.

• 19:41Speaker 01

  And we're not even taken into consideration, all, all the other internal stuff that's Going on for them and

• 19:45Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, and they were fighting constantly and not happy because they got married when they were eighteen and

• 19:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:49Lewis Howes?

  They were pregnant and

• 19:50Speaker 01

  You whatever they're up to.

• 19:51Lewis Howes?

  And they weren't living their dreams. So it's like they had their resentments about.

• 19:53Speaker 01

  And the consciousness level was different then. They weren't, you know, it wasn't a thing.

• 19:57Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 19:57Speaker 01

  To do that, to make sure that the stages of development are

• 20:00Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 20:01Speaker 01

  The boxes are checked. And I mean, that wasn't even a conversation. It's almost barely one now, you know?

• 20:06Lewis Howes?

  Just starting, yes.

• 20:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's starting.

• 20:08Lewis Howes?

  And so you felt like they were never uh fully seeing you for or just loving you or acknowledging you as the child you were?

• 20:14Speaker 01

  Well, they were doing the best they could. And I definitely felt loved.

• 20:17Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 20:17Speaker 01

  There were just so many aspects of my humanity that were just missed in the crossfire, you know?

• 20:22Lewis Howes?

  That's what I say. I felt loved. Like my dad always tucked me in and told me he loved me, but I didn't like.

• 20:27Speaker 01

  It's the specificity of of the mirroring. So the stages of development crassly quickly is the touch and the holding.

• 20:34Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 20:34Speaker 01

  This, I grew up in the, you know, I was born in the seventies. So wasn't, you know, this is a time feminism also. Context is huge to take into consideration around this. So my mom went back to work right away. My twin brother and I were born. I asked, you know, I was basically wondering about the touch eye contact thing. There are certain key things that happened during that stage where ideally we want the skin on skin eye contact thing.

• 20:55Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 20:56Speaker 01

  Or breastfeeding, if if mom could do it or not, you know, like just being able to have that stage development considered, then the exploration stage. Am I bonded and attached enough to move out into the world? Or is there no one there and moving out into the world is scary? Or is moving out into the world the only option I have? Then the third one is identity, the mirroring. And not just mirroring two or three things. They call that concave mirroring where if they just go, I'm going to mirror that you're a great athlete. And that you're handsome and that you're and that you like cars. What about the six billion other aspects of you?

• 21:28Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 21:29Speaker 01

  All right. So the mirroring that can be inaccurate or straight up mirroring that's not accurate, like walking in the house and you go, I'm freezing. And your parent goes, no, you're not. Sit down for dinner.

• 21:39Lewis Howes?

  Oh, you're fine.

• 21:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're like, your eyes are crossing. But I do feel cold, but maybe I don't. And maybe I'm wrong. And maybe my impulses are wrong. And if my impulses are wrong, I'm wrong. I'm bad.

• 21:48Lewis Howes?

  Trust myself. And I can't trust anyone at all.

• 21:50Speaker 01

  Yes. And then the fourth one is competence. Can I do it? So then some parents on the continuum do the hyper, not only can you do it, you're gonna be the next president, you're gonna be number one, you're gonna win every award. And you're just like, oh, Jesus, the pressure. Because the best thing is its own, for me, anyway, it's its own violence, right? And then the other end of the continuum, which is you're good for nothing, you can't, you'll never do this, you know, smirking when you have a dream, all that stuff. So that's a very crass version of the first four. And so I just think of how complicated it is to even sometimes understand it, let alone to have parents apply it, let alone to have them apply it when they're freaked out and they're wounded and they're in a context where they don't have enough energy.

• 22:30Lewis Howes?

  And know when to apply it. It's like, how do you know what they actually need at once?

• 22:35Speaker 01

  The art of parenting and doing it well enough and not, not thinking that as a parent, you have to be perfect. So there's all that.

• 22:42Lewis Howes?

  What do you think was missing from you growing up or missing from your experience growing up that you wish you would have had?

• 22:47Speaker 01

  More feminism, just more of a, I think feminism, I call it the female, not sorry, not the female body thing. It's, it's a feminine in men and women alike. So it's honoring the empowered feminine. So vulnerability, you know, God bless us, gone are the days where we're sort of overly animal-esque. We don't, we're not required to be animal-esque in so many ways. In certain war-torn areas, of course we are, it's fight, flight, freeze, collapse, do your best. But in areas where the privilege of the Western approach is happening, you know, men can be vulnerable, even though, even if they were called wussies if they were feeling. And women can be empowered, even if they're told women should stay in the kitchen or whatever the archaic stuff is. So now we have a free for all where men

• 23:32Speaker 01

  and women bodies can be everything, everything they were born to be.

• 23:35Lewis Howes?

  Is that confusing?

• 23:35Speaker 01

  Uh, not confusing for me. It's exciting.

• 23:38Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 23:39Speaker 01

  But it also

• 23:40Lewis Howes?

  Could it be confusing if?

• 23:41Speaker 01

  It could be overwhelming if, if one doesn't know what their role is, or doesn't know what their ideal dynamic would be. So it's a self-knowledge conversation then.

• 23:50Lewis Howes?

  Can you give an example of that?

• 23:51Speaker 01

  Um, if, I'll give you an example, a personal example, is that for a long time, I always felt that I had to be beta because I looked around me and other than my grandmother. I basically had women examples of doing a certain thing and that women couldn't be alpha, they couldn't be the one in any kind of a driver's seat, they were gonna get their heads chopped off, like I said earlier, so.

• 24:10Lewis Howes?

  Can we give a definition of beta and alpha, so?

• 24:12Speaker 01

  Okay, so.

• 24:13Lewis Howes?

  The context.

• 24:14Speaker 01

  So, beta would be someone who supports the mission of the alpha, and it happily does so. I don't know if you study the Enneagram, but number twos on the Enneagram are very service oriented in this way.

• 24:26Lewis Howes?

  Okay. What's this Enneagram?

• 24:28Speaker 01

  So, the Enneagram is a, is a method, I'm gonna slaughter this because I'm such a new student at this.

• 24:34Lewis Howes?

  We'll link it up.

• 24:35Speaker 01

  Please give resources.

• 24:37Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 24:38Speaker 01

  But, um, Reese and Hudson, Helen Palmer, a handful of different geniuses over the years have, have really illuminated, Eli Jackson Bear, have really illuminated what the Enneagram does. It basically discusses nine different types of approaches to life. And, um, and I've been studying it a lot, so I'm a four with a five wing.

• 24:57Lewis Howes?

  A four with a five.

• 24:58Speaker 01

  A four with a five wing, check it out.

• 24:59Lewis Howes?

  Five wing.

• 25:00Speaker 01

  A five wing, so you have a wing.

• 25:02Lewis Howes?

  A wing.

• 25:03Speaker 01

  First of all.

• 25:04Lewis Howes?

  So you have like a primary, then like a secondary?

• 25:05Speaker 01

  Yes, and then you have a number that you go to, uh, they call it integration or growth.

• 25:09Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 25:10Speaker 01

  And then you have a number that you go to when it's disintegration, or I call it stress.

• 25:13Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 25:14Speaker 01

  So my.

• 25:15Lewis Howes?

  So what's a four mean?

• 25:16Speaker 01

  A four is the artist internal.

• 25:18Lewis Howes?

  Oh.

• 25:19Speaker 01

  And then there's this quote unquote, healthy version of the number, and then the more kind of.

• 25:23Lewis Howes?

  Dark side.

• 25:24Speaker 01

  Yes. Yeah. So, anyway, so my growth, when I'm in my best seat, I'm a one, and when I'm in my most stressed out thing, I go to two, which is, the challenging part of two is people-pleasy, self-sacrificing, loss of self.

• 25:42Lewis Howes?

  I've been in that.

• 25:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, so may, we'll figure out what your numbers are at some point, maybe after this.

• 25:47Lewis Howes?

  After this, oh my goodness.

• 25:48Speaker 01

  Fascinating. Anyway, my point is, is that, so, so a lot of twos can be betas, but, um, but the key is not so much whether you're alpha or beta, to me, it's neutral. A lot of people get horrified at that because there've been some associations around beta being lesser than.

• 26:01Lewis Howes?

  Weak, submissive.

• 26:02Speaker 01

  Yes, and alpha being maybe scary or dictatorial, but, but when there's a negative connotation to alpha or beta. It's because there's a disempowered version of them acting out. So a disempowered alpha would be a misogynist, very dictatorial, not win-win.

• 26:16Lewis Howes?

  Cocky.

• 26:17Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 26:18Lewis Howes?

  Ego-driven.

• 26:18Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 26:19Lewis Howes?

  All about him, her.

• 26:21Speaker 01

  There. Yes, exactly. And, you know, that's what that is.

• 26:25Lewis Howes?

  There can still be a great alpha who says, listen, I'm gonna take control of the situation and make sure we all win.

• 26:29Speaker 01

  I got you. And I'm gonna take everybody into account.

• 26:32Lewis Howes?

  And lift us all up.

• 26:32Speaker 01

  Right. And I'm not done until we're all high-fiving.

• 26:35Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 26:35Speaker 01

  That's an empowered alpha. And an empowered alpha also turns to an empowered beta, says, here's what I'd want, here's what I'd like to do, here's the mission. How do you feel about that? And the beta will go, genius, or let's tweak it a little bit, or, you know, not feeling so good about that.

• 26:50Lewis Howes?

  We'll give some good feedback and insights and support.

• 26:55Speaker 01

  So, so what was, what was I talking about?

• 26:58Lewis Howes?

  What was the question even? Alpha, beta, the top text of alpha, beta.

• 27:01Speaker 01

  So self-knowledge. I mean, basically, this is all coming back to, I think, theme-wise, is how important it is to have knowledge of self.

• 27:09Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 27:09Speaker 01

  Not only for romantic relationships, but for colleagueships, who to hire, who to commit to on contracts.

• 27:16Lewis Howes?

  Your mission in the world.

• 27:17Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 27:18Lewis Howes?

  It's how you interact in the world.

• 27:20Speaker 01

  And if we're relying singularly on our parents having nailed the stages of development, we're in trouble.

• 27:24Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 27:25Speaker 01

  So there's so many ways that we can find ways to recohesivify, nice word, doesn't exist. So re, kind of re.

• 27:33Lewis Howes?

  Configure.

• 27:34Speaker 01

  Yes. Re, all those things.

• 27:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. So basically, there's so many ways to do it. There's trauma recovery work, if there's any addiction processes, people, substances, to address it from the addiction recovery way.

• 27:49Speaker 01

  Pia Melody talks a lot about codependence recovery, and it's basically the maturation process, growing ourselves up. You know, and doing it in group, doing it in one-on-one, doing it individually. Margaret Paul talks a lot about how to have a bondedness within ourselves. So my obsession is always. Bond with self and define self, Richard Schwartz, the IFS model, Internal Family Systems, takes the family systems model and internalizes it. So you could talk to all these aspects of self, which is really Jungian, you know, just talking to these parts from the self.

• 28:19Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 28:20Speaker 01

  You know, so, so self, other, nailing social intelligence, interpersonal intelligence.

• 28:26Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 28:26Speaker 01

  And then I call it supra, supra-personal intelligence, so god intelligence. And Howard Gardner actually added that. That wasn't an intelligence. He only had seven for a while. He added naturalist intelligence, which is the gardening green thumb thing.

• 28:39Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 28:39Speaker 01

  I don't have that one.

• 28:42Speaker 01

  Like, look away.

• 28:43Lewis Howes?

  I'll recycle. That's about the best I can do.

• 28:45Speaker 01

  I will chop that zucchini so hard, but I don't know how to grow it.

• 28:48Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 28:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, my husband's amazing. Yep. So, um, so he added naturalist intelligence and, um, I don't know what he calls it. Actually, I call it spirit. He calls it spiritual intelligence. So there's so many ways to figure out who you are and figure out might be too heady of a word, like head of a word.

• 29:06Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 29:06Speaker 01

  But somatically too, a lot of the trauma work is getting into the body because so much of my life, I've been dissociated.

• 29:11Lewis Howes?

  You can't connect with your head when the trauma is in your heart.

• 29:14Speaker 01

  In your body.

• 29:15Lewis Howes?

  You've got to let it out somehow, right?

• 29:17Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 29:18Lewis Howes?

  And if you're analytical, that's not going, if you're just reading only or analyzing.

• 29:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:23Lewis Howes?

  Or journaling only.

• 29:24Speaker 01

  Yes, because theory can't heal. If we were wounded in relationships, it's the relationships that's going to do the healing work.

• 29:30Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 29:30Speaker 01

  So a lot of us get into relationships where we repeat this compulsion to repeat the same trauma.

• 29:35Lewis Howes?

  Same pattern, right?

• 29:36Speaker 01

  So not so much that we can escape that because I can't intellectually say, okay, I'm not going to be attracted to people who ignore me then.

• 29:43Lewis Howes?

  No, because you continue to be.

• 29:43Speaker 01

  How's that working for you?

• 29:44Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Why are you going after people that don't look at you?

• 29:47Speaker 01

  Same archetype. Okay, here we go. It's more that there'd be some intentionality around letting relationship, committed and intimate relationship be a hotbed for healing.

• 29:58Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. How do you heal in a relationship if you've been?

• 30:02Speaker 01

  You change behaviors for each other. So if there's blind spots, the theory is that the blueprint for your growth lies in the requests of your partner, especially the ones that piss you off the most.

• 30:12Lewis Howes?

  The ones that trigger you the most, the ones that like, oh, you want to like.

• 30:15Speaker 01

  If only, could you please just keep quiet while I'm talking? You know, okay, I'm gonna try that.

• 30:20Lewis Howes?

  Right. So, so what you're saying is making specific requests.

• 30:23Speaker 01

  Yes. So get those frustrations, those I want to kill you moments. Turn them into requests as quickly as you can.

• 30:30Lewis Howes?

  Ideally. I really don't like when you scream at me for doing X, Y, and Z. My request is that when you get upset at me and if I do this, that you would simply tap me on the shoulder.

• 30:38Speaker 01

  Or just say stop or ouch or.

• 30:40Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 30:41Speaker 01

  You know, lift your eyebrow, whatever. Come up with your agreements.

• 30:44Lewis Howes?

  Sure, something where you, you ask requests, gotcha.

• 30:46Speaker 01

  And knowing that the ones that are the hardest to do are usually the ones that are going to be most healing for your partner. So if I'm pulling out of some major blind spots, it's probably going to heal my husband the most, vice versa.

• 30:58Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 30:59Speaker 01

  And so, and so that's the third part of what romantic partnership promises. The first one is the infatuation, can't get your, get your hands off each other, can't stop thinking about each other, you're obsessed, which could segue into love addiction, and I say drag it out as long as you can. Cause it's so much fun.

• 31:15Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 31:15Speaker 01

  Oh my God, it's a drug, every hormone, every.

• 31:18Lewis Howes?

  It's amazing.

• 31:19Speaker 01

  Spark is going off in your body.

• 31:20Lewis Howes?

  Is there a more powerful drug than that?

• 31:22Speaker 01

  No, I don't think so. I mean, that's why love addiction is actually the biggest, in my mind, the biggest withdrawal from any addiction of all addictions.

• 31:30Lewis Howes?

  Cause you have this connection, this intimacy, this love, this looking at each other's eyes, this touch, and if you just rip it apart.

• 31:36Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 31:36Lewis Howes?

  You don't have it anymore.

• 31:37Speaker 01

  And then you're left with the emptiness that perhaps was there to begin with, that perhaps wasn't looked at. So all, that's where the codependent recovery, P and Melody nails it in her Love Addiction Recovery Book. And then, and then the second stage is the, where you start fighting. Conflict prevails, you're in the relationship, your nightmares, oh.

• 31:57Lewis Howes?

  Screw me.

• 31:58Speaker 01

  Uh oh, I've married this person. Or, oh God, I'm in the wrong relationship, or, you know, it's the nightmare phase.

• 32:05Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 32:06Speaker 01

  Now, some of that is sort of appropriate if it's a value systems mismatch, or if there's some abuse going on. Yeah, maybe take a little step back. But often it's not the time to jump ship, that's when the rubber is attempting to start to hit the road. And then the third phase is what we just talked about a second ago, or what I was basically going on about a second ago, where you actually start helping each other out. So the

• 32:33Lewis Howes?

  And heal.

• 32:33Speaker 01

  And heal.

• 32:34Lewis Howes?

  With each other as opposed to say, screw this, let's end it. And you do your thing, I'm gonna do my thing and then we get back in the same pattern and you get back in the same pattern and let's actually heal this together.

• 32:42Speaker 01

  Yes, as opposed to I'm just, we're gonna break up and then I'm gonna go date someone exactly like you and go through the same

• 32:47Lewis Howes?

  But it's a different story and have

• 32:48Speaker 01

  This one has blonde hair, this one's a little shorter and yes. Love addiction and then, and then

• 32:53Lewis Howes?

  So what's the resource for, is there a book about this or a process or an exercise or workshop?

• 32:58Speaker 01

  It's a combination of a few books, but um, Harville Hendrix is uh, Keeping the Love You Find. Him and Helen McKelley Hunt together have the big Amago movement.

• 33:07Lewis Howes?

  Okay. Did you talk about this on your last podcast?

• 33:09Speaker 01

  I talked about it with him and Helen.

• 33:10Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I listened to that, it was great.

• 33:12Speaker 01

  It's so great. I mean, the Amago thing really made staying through the challenging time an imperative for me. And there were so many people who dealt me who were just like, we're fighting too much, that no, we're done. And I'm like, done?

• 33:25Lewis Howes?

  We're just getting started.

• 33:26Speaker 01

  We're just getting started.

• 33:27Lewis Howes?

  This is the good stuff.

• 33:27Speaker 01

  You know, and, and some, some people say, don't get into the jugular, hard, heavy lifting until you're super committed. But I had a little caveat of, well, what if they're not up for the heavy lifting? How do you know?

• 33:41Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 33:43Speaker 01

  So, you know, you gotta be careful there.

• 33:44Lewis Howes?

  It's challenging. And it's like, if you're not willing to do the work before you get committed, like, what if you get committed and it's too late or I don't know, and then they back out?

• 33:51Speaker 01

  So ideally, you wanna meet someone who, even though they may not have necessarily done a ton of work, that they're open to it.

• 33:58Lewis Howes?

  Open to it, yeah.

• 33:59Speaker 01

  Cause if someone's not open to the work, you're pooched.

• 34:01Lewis Howes?

  You're screwed.

• 34:02Speaker 01

  Both people are

• 34:03Lewis Howes?

  And are you still doing work every single day?

• 34:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, it's, it's slowly becoming less, you know, there's less salt being poured in each other's traumas.

• 34:11Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 34:12Speaker 01

  But we have moments.

• 34:13Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, of course.

• 34:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:14Lewis Howes?

  But you've sounds like you've done a lot of work over the last 20 years.

• 34:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, and especially in my marriage, I have to tell you, so much of the work that I've done has been uh, relational. So if there's a therapist or there's another person in the room, that's huge. Because I've, I always thought that art and including art therapy. If it's alone, wasn't actually healing, it was really cathartic, but there was no healing going on because it wasn't relational.

• 34:36Lewis Howes?

  You were getting it out, you were releasing.

• 34:38Speaker 01

  Moving it. And so, yes, maybe I.

• 34:40Lewis Howes?

  For a moment, you were channeling it out, but not healing fully.

• 34:43Speaker 01

  Right. So I'd sing these songs. I'd sing You ought to know. And then I'd, if I ran into that person, having sung this song 150 times, it wouldn't have been more healed.

• 34:52Lewis Howes?

  Your heart was still like triggered and you were reacting.

• 34:55Speaker 01

  Yeah. So basically, I realized it was catharsis for art. But as soon as a human being, where there's some semblance of commitment, where some semblance of intimacy, where there's vulnerability in two people sharing self, then the healing happens. But that's, I mean, I also think the soul is very shy. So pace yourself.

• 35:14Lewis Howes?

  It doesn't have to happen right now.

• 35:16Speaker 01

  No, just like.

• 35:17Lewis Howes?

  Life is also messy.

• 35:18Speaker 01

  And, and it can be really fun, like pepper in some fun movies and.

• 35:22Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 35:23Speaker 01

  Snowboarding and, you know, jump out of airplanes if that's your thing.

• 35:26Lewis Howes?

  I like it.

• 35:27Speaker 01

  You know, bake.

• 35:28Lewis Howes?

  It doesn't have to be this dark, conflict.

• 35:30Speaker 01

  You want to, you want to break it up a little bit and watch Game of Thrones or whatever.

• 35:34Lewis Howes?

  Or weeds.

• 35:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, there you go.

• 35:38Lewis Howes?

  I was talking to Latice before this, that she helped me get through a dark moment of two weeks of weeds watching.

• 35:44Speaker 01

  So are you a love addict? Are you, are you a recovering love addict? Or are you not a love addict?

• 35:47Lewis Howes?

  What does that mean?

• 35:49Speaker 01

  It means that the relationship kind of takes over. And that there's something about the person that becomes almost like a higher power and you lose a sense of self. Maybe your self-care goes down a little bit when you're.

• 36:01Lewis Howes?

  I think that's happened in the past. I think I'm much more aware of it. And yeah, because there's been past relationships where I've ended relationships and moved on and been fine and.

• 36:12Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 36:12Lewis Howes?

  Been single for a year and felt great.

• 36:14Speaker 01

  Okay. So then, no, maybe.

• 36:16Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah. But then there's other relationships where I'm like, oh, man, I really, you know, miss this girl. And it's like, wow, there's actually so much good about her. What was I thinking?

• 36:23Speaker 01

  Well, that just sounds like straight up grief. That doesn't sound like love addiction withdrawal.

• 36:26Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 36:27Speaker 01

  So maybe you're not.

• 36:28Lewis Howes?

  But I may, but I could miss.

• 36:29Speaker 01

  But maybe you weren't.

• 36:31Lewis Howes?

  Who knows? I'm so messed up. Who knows?

• 36:34Speaker 01

  I don't wish that one on you, though, by the way.

• 36:36Lewis Howes?

  Which one?

• 36:37Speaker 01

  I don't wish love addiction on you. It's not great.

• 36:39Lewis Howes?

  Gotcha. Okay, cool. Where was I going with this?

• 36:42Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 36:44Lewis Howes?

  I'm curious. Over the last 20 years, a lot has happened. I mean, over your whole life, obviously, but the last 20 years, when you kind of like made it big with your, it's the 20 year anniversary, right, of your

• 36:53Speaker 01

  of Jagged Little Pill.

• 36:54Lewis Howes?

  Jagged Little Pill, which is insane, right?

• 36:56Speaker 01

  I know.

• 36:56Lewis Howes?

  And I think I read on Wikipedia, thank God.

• 36:59Speaker 01

  Thank God. A little distance, a little disidentification from.

• 37:02Lewis Howes?

  Which I want to talk about that, too.

• 37:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:05Lewis Howes?

  But did it sell 30 something million records in the first year or something like that?

• 37:08Speaker 01

  I don't know what the record breaking things, but there were some Guinness Book of World Record moments.

• 37:13Lewis Howes?

  It's crazy.

• 37:14Speaker 01

  But yeah, it sold a lot of records.

• 37:16Lewis Howes?

  Sold a lot.

• 37:16Speaker 01

  The record company said, you know, we think this could sell upwards of about 100,000 copies. And I remember telling, I literally did the Saturday Night Live, like, put my fingers on their mouth, like, don't speak.

• 37:25Lewis Howes?

  Don't jinx it, right?

• 37:26Speaker 01

  You know, I, first of all, it's too daunting to hear someone say what they hope. I don't know how you're, you are with that, but I don't like hearing people's expectations.

• 37:34Lewis Howes?

  No, it's tough.

• 37:35Speaker 01

  No.

• 37:35Lewis Howes?

  Especially, I just had a book and it's like, you know, if an agent or a publisher is like, we want this to happen. You're like, oh, what if it doesn't happen?

• 37:41Speaker 01

  Right.

• 37:42Lewis Howes?

  You know what I mean?

• 37:43Speaker 01

  And, and it's kind of implied sometimes when they say what they would like to have happen, this pressure that if it doesn't, there's going to be this big disappointment, whatever. So I don't like that stuff.

• 37:51Lewis Howes?

  So they said 100,000?

• 37:52Speaker 01

  But they said 100,000. I remember thinking, wow, that's intense.

• 37:55Lewis Howes?

  And then 30 million something later, you're like, whoa, my life is forever changed.

• 38:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:00Lewis Howes?

  Right?

• 38:01Speaker 01

  Yes, because I was, I was the observer of people. I loved sitting and just watching human beings.

• 38:06Lewis Howes?

  And then all of a sudden, millions of people were observing you.

• 38:09Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 38:09Lewis Howes?

  Every move, every decision, every relationship.

• 38:12Speaker 01

  Yeah. And the irony for me is that I actually have recognition shame. Like, I don't actually like people looking at me, but I also have this other side that, you can look at me.

• 38:20Lewis Howes?

  I'm turning around here.

• 38:21Speaker 01

  I've done a lot of work. I can actually look at people now, no joke. But then this other part that's like a ham, that I wear my cape and all, you know, I'm all Joan of Arc on steroids, you know, like, anytime you want someone to volunteer, my hand's already up.

• 38:35Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 38:36Speaker 01

  So, so I, I'm constantly putting my foot on the pedal and the brake, you know? But anyway, that, that time period was huge. It taught me a lot about. Humans and relationships and betrayal and exploitation.

• 38:49Lewis Howes?

  Wow, I can only imagine the amount of trauma that comes after that type of success.

• 38:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, like a searing amount of betrayal and exploitation.

• 38:56Lewis Howes?

  I couldn't even fathom it.

• 38:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:58Lewis Howes?

  Like, everyone wants a piece of you. Everyone wants to take, probably.

• 39:01Speaker 01

  And talk about invisibility, that's another thing. I was sold the same bill of goods, perhaps, that most people were sold about fame, which was that I'd be kumbaya-ing into the sunset with Johnny Depp and, you know, me and all these celebrities would be hanging out and Sharon Stone would be painting my nails. You know, that just wasn't the case. I would phone different celebrities and say, "Hi." And they'd say, "Why are you calling me?"

• 39:23Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 39:23Speaker 01

  And I'd say, "I'm, uh, just maybe, uh, bye."

• 39:27Lewis Howes?

  Shut up, really?

• 39:27Speaker 01

  Forget it. You know, I was just wanting a friend, for crying out loud. Somebody who could maybe help me.

• 39:32Lewis Howes?

  Why wouldn't they talk to you or give you some feedback or advice?

• 39:34Speaker 01

  They just, they didn't understand that I could be so vulnerable as to reach out for it, maybe. I don't know. It's different. It seems different now. I don't know. I don't know if people are as isolated as they were also.

• 39:45Lewis Howes?

  Do you, like, when you call a celebrity now, do they get back to you or are they more open?

• 39:47Speaker 01

  Well, I don't call celebrities as a thing. Who's my next celebrity?

• 39:54Lewis Howes?

  Johnny Depp, how are you?

• 39:55Speaker 01

  I did actually speak good.

• 39:58Speaker 01

  But, uh, what was I gonna say? Yeah, it's different now, too. Also, contextually, the feminist movement is just in a slightly different place. There's more of a squad mentality now. Now, do I know the degree of intimacy in those relationships? I have no idea, because I'm not in it. But, but at the time, I'd be on tour with 14 male bands at some huge muddy festival in Europe, and I'd be the only female. Maybe me and Bjork. And we'd send a song of mine before Jagged Little Pill came out. We'd send you, I don't know, to the radio stations and they would say, "You know what? We can't play this. We're already playing Sinead O'Connor. We're already playing Tori Amos." To the point where it was like, "Wait a minute."

• 40:33Lewis Howes?

  You can only play one or two girls?

• 40:35Speaker 01

  Apparently.

• 40:35Lewis Howes?

  What?

• 40:36Speaker 01

  Now, obviously, that's different.

• 40:37Lewis Howes?

  It's like all women, it seems like now, most.

• 40:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:39Lewis Howes?

  Right?

• 40:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, bless.

• 40:41Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Now, the men need to get stepped out of that couple.

• 40:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're fine. There's so many amazing male artists.

• 40:46Lewis Howes?

  There's a lot.

• 40:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:47Lewis Howes?

  Now, I'm curious, because you were 19 when you moved here. Do you feel like it was... Now, I know you had this talent in Canada and you were obviously gifted, but do you feel like when you came here that you almost got like a lucky break at all? Does any of that come up for you? Like, "Man, I just met the right people and got in the right situations and we hit this thing and it was the right timing and I was the right voice and..."

• 41:09Speaker 01

  There was a lot of stars aligning, for sure. But it wasn't so grace tinged. You know, a lot of rejection, basically. When I first was sharing my songs with people, it was basically across the board, a big fat no.

• 41:23Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 41:24Speaker 01

  And as a Canadian, I was taking some meetings where people wanted me to self promote and sell myself.

• 41:28Lewis Howes?

  And you were like this nineteen year old.

• 41:30Speaker 01

  And they'd be like, tell me about how amazing you are. And, you know, I would freeze because that wasn't my style. So I would say, I said to the team, I was working with a small team, I just said, I can't take these meetings anymore. I just have to have my music speak for itself. Probably not unlike your podcast and your book. You want it to speak for you, or you to speak for you, but you, you know.

• 41:51Lewis Howes?

  You don't want to dance like a monkey.

• 41:52Speaker 01

  No, I am no monkey. I am, there might be some dog and pony shows, but I don't go to those. So, yeah, certainly I shook a lot of hands and smooched a lot of cute babies. But, um, but I didn't, I couldn't do the thing of selling myself to people. So I just thought, let's just finish this record with Glenn Ballard off the radar. Once the record was finished, then I met Guy O'Seary at Maverick and.

• 42:15Lewis Howes?

  Oh, that's who it was.

• 42:16Speaker 01

  He was doing backflips, yeah.

• 42:17Lewis Howes?

  He was Madonna's manager, right?

• 42:20Speaker 01

  Madonna's label was Maverick.

• 42:22Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 42:22Speaker 01

  And so they were all working together with Freddie De Man and Abby Conovich, yeah.

• 42:26Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, Guy, I've never met him, but he invests in a couple of companies I invest in as well. When I always hear about him, seems like a great guy. So he's the guy who, who supported the.

• 42:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, he heard, um, Hand in My Pocket and Perfect.

• 42:37Lewis Howes?

  And he was doing backflips.

• 42:38Speaker 01

  And You Oughta Know.

• 42:38Lewis Howes?

  Really, really?

• 42:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:40Lewis Howes?

  Like on the table, jumped off, no, just kidding.

• 42:42Speaker 01

  Great shoes, yes, no, he, he was so excited. And that was it.

• 42:46Lewis Howes?

  Wow, and you were twenty at that time, or?

• 42:48Speaker 01

  I was nineteen still.

• 42:49Lewis Howes?

  That's crazy.

• 42:50Speaker 01

  Or no, I was twenty, I was twenty at that point.

• 42:52Lewis Howes?

  Amazing. It's so interesting because it doesn't seem like, you know, twenty years ago that that many people had the opportunity as they do today. You know, as you can do a YouTube video or be on Vine or Snapchat and get a record label or just. Throw out your own album on iTunes and do half a million sales or something, right?

• 43:10Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 43:11Lewis Howes?

  You build your own audience.

• 43:12Speaker 01

  It's so direct now.

• 43:13Lewis Howes?

  It's very different.

• 43:13Speaker 01

  There's no bottleneck. Yeah, there were major bottlenecks and pros and cons to both approaches, different eras.

• 43:18Lewis Howes?

  Right. But it was all like, if MTV played it, then you were big or something, right?

• 43:23Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 43:23Lewis Howes?

  And now it's like, is MTV?

• 43:24Speaker 01

  Or if a radio station played it and people called in, that was it.

• 43:27Lewis Howes?

  That was it.

• 43:27Speaker 01

  The people spoke, you know?

• 43:28Lewis Howes?

  The people spoke.

• 43:29Speaker 01

  The people have spoken.

• 43:30Lewis Howes?

  It's crazy. What do you think, um, what advice would you give people now who are in this different world where it's like they're not trying to move to LA and find like a record label that doing it on their own? What advice would you give them?

• 43:42Speaker 01

  Um, it would be the same advice I would probably give anyone if they asked me. I hate unsolicited advice, so they'd have to ask me.

• 43:48Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 43:48Speaker 01

  Um, uh, would be to just be themselves. So write songs that are you, you know? For me, I don't enjoy listening to songs that I think are overly presentational. Some element of performance, if someone's just got a-

• 43:59Lewis Howes?

  Too packaged, right, or too?

• 44:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, too presentational, too not enough, um-

• 44:03Lewis Howes?

  Too much of the machine.

• 44:04Speaker 01

  Messy. I like a little messy, a little-

• 44:06Lewis Howes?

  That's like your definition.

• 44:07Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I'm just projecting my own preferences here.

• 44:11Lewis Howes?

  Messy Morset.

• 44:11Speaker 01

  That's what we do.

• 44:12Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 44:13Speaker 01

  So, so yeah, I like when it's some, when it's autobiographical and vulnerable and powerful and, um, whether it's a movie or a book or anything, a podcast.

• 44:22Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 44:23Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 44:24Lewis Howes?

  What is it like now, you know, you've had all this success in your early or late teens, early twenties with your music and the, the numbers haven't been as big, you know, since then?

• 44:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, no.

• 44:37Lewis Howes?

  Right, you had like this-

• 44:38Speaker 01

  It went down precipitously, continuously after.

• 44:41Lewis Howes?

  Ever since 20 years, it just keeps going down a little bit, right? I mean, I want to put you in a-

• 44:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:44Lewis Howes?

  Negative state of mind here.

• 44:45Speaker 01

  I'm not.

• 44:46Lewis Howes?

  Right, right?

• 44:47Speaker 01

  That's neutral information to me.

• 44:48Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, there you go. These are the facts, right?

• 44:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 44:50Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. So how does someone who hits like, blows out these records and world records and-

• 44:56Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 44:56Lewis Howes?

  Millions of copies?

• 44:57Speaker 01

  Not kill herself.

• 44:58Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, how do you emotionally handle it? Like, oh, maybe my best- Musical performances or the results of the best performances have are behind me.

• 45:08Speaker 01

  Well, the results of the best performance is probably a good way to put it because so much of it has to be around how I define success.

• 45:14Lewis Howes?

  Of course, I mean, sales numbers.

• 45:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, sales numbers to me are, you know, and I said this before Jagged Little Pill, during Jagged Little Pill and still now, they're almost inconsequential. You know, does it affect money coming in and opportunities for sure?

• 45:28Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 45:28Speaker 01

  But opportunities abound for me.

• 45:30Lewis Howes?

  Of course.

• 45:30Speaker 01

  And and it really begs the question of what kind of opportunities. So there are opportunities to do huge TV shows with huge audiences. I've had the privilege of doing a lot of that.

• 45:40Lewis Howes?

  Movies.

• 45:40Speaker 01

  Been doing it recently. I mean, I have access to being expressed. So for me, if I have a sense of self, I'm in my seat, as I call it, and I'm being expressed, I'm being of service, and I'm taking care of myself so that I don't burn out. That to me is the definition of success for me. And then I had to start having some personal fulfillment too, because I had professional fulfillment nonstop, and I still have that.

• 46:05Lewis Howes?

  You could get, you could succeed anytime professionally you want to.

• 46:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:09Lewis Howes?

  You can get in a TV show or movie or.

• 46:10Speaker 01

  It's the most fun and.

• 46:11Lewis Howes?

  Performing AMAs.

• 46:12Speaker 01

  Yes, doing a comedy piece with so and so. And there's just so many ways to scratch the itch of forms of expression. So that to me is like I'm a kid in a candy store today.

• 46:22Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 46:23Speaker 01

  For me, it was about also combining personal fulfillment. So that took a minute. And then now that I have that as well, I'm happy to say, now I just feel like I, it's about waking up in the morning and knowing what is the imperative. For me, it's service and self-expression, continuing self-definition, deepening intimacy in relationships that were always terrifying in the past and becoming slowly less and less so, and nurturing the ones that are really important to me.

• 46:53Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. What are the most important relationships right now?

• 46:56Speaker 01

  My husband, my son, my community, my best friends. They're huge.

• 47:01Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 47:02Speaker 01

  And it's it's a constant, every day there's a new thing. You know, and sometimes it's subtle. Sometimes it's, oh, they let me rub their back a little longer or, oh, they cried with me or, oh, I I asked for help or, you know, whatever the the growth stretch is for me in any given moment that in the past perhaps I wouldn't have done for fear. Maybe I'm doing it a little bit more today. So defining success to me is a multitudinous thing. It's not just success means winning Grammys, although that is some version of success according sort of like externally oriented success. So there's internal orientation around success and the external validation. The external validation is dangerous, though, because if we're singularly focusing on that, that is an ebb and flow. My whole life I've

• 47:46Speaker 01

  been loved and hated. People don't give it, people don't care. All of a sudden they really care this week and then next week they don't care again. And then they hate and there were websites erected on how to punch me out properly. Like there's, I mean, just the whole continuum of of abject adoration and love and respect all the way to abject hatred.

• 48:06Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 48:06Speaker 01

  And emotional violence. So I can't really ride that roller coaster.

• 48:11Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 48:11Speaker 01

  If I'm externally oriented, I'm in trouble. Externally referencing.

• 48:15Lewis Howes?

  Constantly looking for an acknowledgement, a thing to like bring you a feeling or feeling like, like you did it.

• 48:21Speaker 01

  And then you're dependent on it.

• 48:22Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. And you're always searching for the next big thing.

• 48:24Speaker 01

  And not to say I'm an island, the whole autonomous movement, you know, God bless the movement of autonomy and post feminism and everything, or post feminine, post seventies, really. But but now I just think I can't be singularly internally referencing I'm not an island. So I pick the people who I feel vulnerable with. We give each other feedback. They'll say, oh, there's a little blind spot there. And vice versa. But we always do it with a tenderness.

• 48:50Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 48:51Speaker 01

  And then I'll want their feedback. You like this song? But if I like the song, if I like the chapter, if I like the conversation we're having, I don't actually care what someone else thinks about it. This is just self definition. I'm not saying this is the, this is the height of what all people should aspire to. It's what I love.

• 49:08Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 49:08Speaker 01

  And that's it. And that's enough for me.

• 49:11Lewis Howes?

  I want to talk about relevance for a moment because for

• 49:14Speaker 01

  I don't like that word.

• 49:16Lewis Howes?

  We don't have to talk about it. Let's talk about relevant.

• 49:20Speaker 01

  Well, you tell me what you think that word means.

• 49:22Lewis Howes?

  Well, here's the question.

• 49:22Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 49:23Lewis Howes?

  And if we don't want to answer, you don't have to.

• 49:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:25Lewis Howes?

  Let me make sure I say this the right way because I don't want to make you upset at me now.

• 49:28Speaker 01

  I would never be upset.

• 49:31Lewis Howes?

  You know, for 20, 20 years ago, for a number of years, you were extremely relevant.

• 49:35Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 49:36Lewis Howes?

  With your music.

• 49:36Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 49:37Lewis Howes?

  And you were at the top of the charts, you know, everyone wanted you, were touring everywhere.

• 49:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:40Lewis Howes?

  Et cetera.

• 49:41Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 49:41Lewis Howes?

  It started going down a little bit every year, you said, right?

• 49:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:44Lewis Howes?

  These are your words.

• 49:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, you're not going to trigger me.

• 49:46Lewis Howes?

  Okay, cool.

• 49:48Lewis Howes?

  Do you feel, how important is it to be, for you to be relevant in the world?

• 49:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. So let's get, okay, so let's get explicit about what you mean when you use the word relevant.

• 49:58Lewis Howes?

  I guess relevant.

• 49:59Speaker 01

  Relevant meaning famous?

• 50:01Lewis Howes?

  Known and on top of mind.

• 50:03Speaker 01

  So famous.

• 50:03Lewis Howes?

  On top of mind.

• 50:04Speaker 01

  On top of what?

• 50:05Lewis Howes?

  Like on top of mind awareness, like you're on the top of people's minds.

• 50:08Speaker 01

  Okay, so you're famous.

• 50:09Lewis Howes?

  I guess you can call it that.

• 50:10Speaker 01

  It really is that.

• 50:11Lewis Howes?

  Okay, okay, famous.

• 50:12Speaker 01

  So let's talk about fame.

• 50:13Lewis Howes?

  How important is it to you, for you to be relevant?

• 50:16Speaker 01

  Famous.

• 50:17Lewis Howes?

  And to have influence and to be able to get your message out to the world? Whether it's through music or through another message.

• 50:23Speaker 01

  So now you're splitting them in two and some of them, there is an overlap because to the degree that you have more fame, you have more influences, you just.

• 50:29Lewis Howes?

  And you can serve more people, right?

• 50:30Speaker 01

  Yes, so what I make sure of is that my engine, that is me, serves. Microcosmically and macrocosmically. I don't have entire control over, well, it's whether it's 60 billion people or 1,000 people. I don't have control over the number, but I do have control as to whether I show up. So I just go micro, macro, micro, macro all the time. And if I'm not doing enough macro service, there's something feels very wrong in my body. If I'm not doing enough micro.

• 51:01Lewis Howes?

  What do you mean by macro service?

• 51:03Speaker 01

  Showing up, doing this.

• 51:04Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. If you're just isolating yourself.

• 51:07Speaker 01

  If I'm just in my sweatpants?

• 51:08Lewis Howes?

  Yes, all day for a whole year.

• 51:10Speaker 01

  And I'm just faking, then, then I feel as though I'm not living what I was born to do. And by the way, I don't always love what I was born to do. Sometimes I feel actually quite encumbered by it.

• 51:23Lewis Howes?

  What were you born to do?

• 51:24Speaker 01

  To be micro, macro. Some people were born to be in the public eye and others weren't. I mean, I know a ton of people that they look at my life and they go, that looks exhausting. And I would never want to do what you do. And I'm, and I just think, well, great. Don't do it.

• 51:37Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 51:38Speaker 01

  Glad you're not doing it.

• 51:39Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 51:40Speaker 01

  And so there are other people who are more built for the, for the micro, you know, like I think of a sacred nurse in a hospice. She's not dying to be on television.

• 51:51Lewis Howes?

  But she's serving a group of people every single day.

• 51:54Speaker 01

  Yes. So that's to me, the micro.

• 51:56Lewis Howes?

  Gotcha.

• 51:57Speaker 01

  And they're both equally important. And for me personally, one without the other is egregiously incomplete.

• 52:03Lewis Howes?

  It's like making sure you're there for your family and your small community of your family, but also, okay, let me take my message out to the world and serve the maximum number of people.

• 52:11Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 52:12Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 52:13Speaker 01

  And maximum is the perfect way to put it because I can't control the degree of what you might call relevance and what I call fame. I can control showing up and getting my glam team together and shooting a video. I can control all that fun stuff, but I can't control the receptivity.

• 52:27Lewis Howes?

  How many people are gonna watch it or listen or show up?

• 52:29Speaker 01

  And neither can anybody. We think we can. A lot of people in the industry think they can manipulate it, but you can't.

• 52:34Lewis Howes?

  Through the press and through whatever shows you're on or things like that, right? Do you feel like you're still as relevant as you were?

• 52:42Speaker 01

  As famous? No.

• 52:43Lewis Howes?

  I'll just say famous.

• 52:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, relevant is also a very modern word. It's very modern. So if I go back 20 years or even to the sixties and seventies, they wouldn't have said relevant, I don't think. They would have said, how famous are you?

• 52:58Lewis Howes?

  Gotcha. Okay.

• 52:59Speaker 01

  Now, there's also my relationship or my perception of fame is that a lot of people want to be famous for the sake of famousness. You know, it's like being famous, you know, I go, what does fame mean? Fill in the blank. Fame means that I what?

• 53:13Lewis Howes?

  People know me when I walk down the street.

• 53:14Speaker 01

  But if people know you, then what?

• 53:16Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 53:17Speaker 01

  You know, what, what would I do with that white hot heat of staring eyeballs? You know, a lot of people I think chase fame to get the attachment stuff they never got. It's literally eyeballs looking at you, people wanting to touch you, people wanting to be near you, people being obsessed with you. What's that if not what mother offers us or caregiver offers us when we're born ideally? So there's that whole conversation. Then there's just, you know, I'll get my dad's approval finally.

• 53:44Lewis Howes?

  I'll feel finally be accepted by

• 53:46Speaker 01

  Yes, and I'll have the money and the cars and so to me it's to what end like what does this actually provide you personally in your soul and your heart? And I think that that's where it gets a little dangerous if there's a new famous person at 18. It makes sense that they would chase it to the degree that they do, or even celebrities that are now in their 50s and 60s still chasing it like they're 21.

• 54:08Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 54:09Speaker 01

  A lot of that is still chasing what? Still chasing attention and and if it's relevance or fame or whatever it is, they want, they still want that. And yeah, there's a part of me that's super insecure and loves the idea of, you know, walking out of a big television show in New York and people being there. There's another part of me on a human body level that hated that.

• 54:31Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 54:31Speaker 01

  I was dying in it and it wasn't sustainable for me. So I have, what I see my life as being now is the perfect combination of if I really wanted to be in macro, if I put a book out or a record out, I'll promote, I'll promote it to high heaven.

• 54:46Lewis Howes?

  And you could get it out there for, yeah.

• 54:48Speaker 01

  Yeah. And whoever's supposed to read it is gonna read it or listen to it. If you're supposed to hear it, you'll hear it. Cause I'll show up to promote it, but the rest of it isn't up to me. And if I can walk around the streets and actually look at people and have some people come up to me and go, hi, what's your name? I'm just like, yes, I'm a human being again.

• 55:06Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah. Well, you look very girl next door. You're like this, you know, you're not this glammed out celebrity or something. So it's like you're very approachable and relatable.

• 55:15Speaker 01

  Thanks, yeah.

• 55:17Lewis Howes?

  What do you think your message was 15, 20 years ago?

• 55:21Lewis Howes?

  What did you want it to be?

• 55:23Speaker 01

  It was to express what was really going on. I think I grew up in different contexts that were, that were overly presentational, not overly authentic. And there was a lot of pain, secrecy. And so I had this drive, I see it in my twin brother too, this drive to Go to the jugular of what's really going on. Well, what's really going on? What's the lowest common denominator here? How can we reduce this to the truth of what's happening? So that's what I was doing then, and frankly, it's what I'm doing now. Now I'm doing it with a little bit more swagger. Now I'm just like, well, I know what it is. Pretty intentional, I guess.

• 56:00Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 56:01Speaker 01

  If I'm sleepwalking, I'm sleepwalking. But then it was a little more dangerous just because there was so much heat.

• 56:08Lewis Howes?

  Attention, yeah. Fame. Relevance.

• 56:12Speaker 01

  Well, they're all the same.

• 56:13Lewis Howes?

  Exactly, yeah. So what do you think is the mission now? What's your assignment in life?

• 56:20Speaker 01

  Now, it's to serve and comfort and uplift and validate and inform. You know, so if I can, if someone's suffering, and I can say one thing that will help alleviate that suffering and allow some agency in them, or some empowerment, or some fire, or some tenderness, or the stopping of their kicking their own asses ruthlessly and endlessly every day.

• 56:43Lewis Howes?

  I've been there for many, many years.

• 56:45Speaker 01

  If I could offer even a glimpse of, even if it's just a laugh at how hard it is to be human sometimes, or, you know, that's all, that's all I'm here for. There's no question. So I'm here to educate if it's appropriate. I'm here to validate and empathize and laugh with someone. Yeah.

• 57:03Lewis Howes?

  Okay. Through what, what type of context do you want to create that through? What type of message? Do you feel like music's going to be a big part of your life? For you to continue to create music? Or do you feel like you've said everything you need to say in past songs?

• 57:16Speaker 01

  No, I'll, I'll write records until I'm dead and probably after. I'll probably torture someone by channeling my stuff through them. So I'll always write music, whether people are listening or not, won't even matter to me because I have to write songs. So I'll always write music. A little bit of comedy has to happen. If I haven't done comedy in a couple of years, I start wanting to eat my own hand. A little bit of comedy, design. You know, my website's been really fun because I'm able to be in the design.

• 57:43Lewis Howes?

  It's beautiful.

• 57:44Speaker 01

  Aesthetic.

• 57:44Lewis Howes?

  I love it.

• 57:45Speaker 01

  So beauty.

• 57:45Lewis Howes?

  Atlantis.com, woman linked up. Make sure to check it out.

• 57:48Speaker 01

  Thank you, sir. So, so aesthetic, design, sound. So all the senses, frankly. Scents, oils, I'm obsessed. They're all over my site.

• 57:58Lewis Howes?

  I saw all your oils there, yeah.

• 57:59Speaker 01

  So basically, all the senses. Sound, beauty, design, aesthetic.

• 58:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, basically, all the senses expressing through those and through comedy and through feminism and the health, taking self-care to a whole other level, but not perfectionism, because the self-care wellness, well-being movement can be so co-opted by the ego and co-opted by the beating oneself up to turn it into some perfectionism. Dangerous. And then spirituality, like just showing where God shows up in all these different forms. And then psychological, I mean, there's this academic geek in me that's always been there, that's, you know, just like a clinical therapist in the body of a glittery sweaty little rock star. So back then, I had to kind of hide that. I remember on the cover of some magazine in the UK, they said something like stadium therapy

• 58:51Speaker 01

  and Alana's at her psychobabble. And I was like, whereas now, it seems to be maybe a boon. You know, it seems to be something that's of service as opposed to something people can make fun of.

• 59:02Lewis Howes?

  Sure. What's the line in a song that you've written that speaks to you the most, that you love the most? One line?

• 59:14Speaker 01

  There's one line that cracks me up only because there's so many words. And then the content is so awesome, I guess. Can blindly continued fear-induced regurgitated life-denying tradition be overcome? And I, it was, it's in the 20th anniversary deluxe fancy package being made. So the version that I have in there, the sound version, doesn't have that line. But we did a new version, and I couldn't find it. So I wrote the lyric in. And it's some demo somewhere, and I'll find it one day, just put it on my site.

• 59:52Lewis Howes?

  Cool.

• 59:52Speaker 01

  But I remember trying to put a new line in there because the old one didn't feel so good. And that's a rare thing. Usually when a song's written, it's done really fast. But, but that line totally cracked me up, that I got away with. It's like, how can I sneak in words that are entirely inappropriate?

• 1:00:10Lewis Howes?

  And what's the song that inspired you the most when you were growing up? That healed you the most, that made you want to belt it out every time, over and over?

• 1:00:18Speaker 01

  The Smurfs All-Star Show. That was literally the first record that I got. So I was, as a kid in Germany, I just remember being on the Autobahn, which has no speed limit, which was so my father, he loved that Autobahn.

• 1:00:32Speaker 01

  He would play Carole King, and so everything by Carole King, basically. And then there was a kid's record she did, Really Rosie, I think it's called. I knew every lyric and I could sing it top to bottom as a kid.

• 1:00:42Lewis Howes?

  Okay. If you were given unlimited money right now, if I said, here's a trillion dollars.

• 1:00:49Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:00:49Lewis Howes?

  And this trillion dollars, or whatever it is, can heal one thing in the world. And you can only heal one thing right now with this money. And you had to spend it on healing that one thing, what would you want to heal?

• 1:01:01Speaker 01

  Raise the feminine consciousness, because feminine consciousness makes sure, makes sure by its very nature that everything, everyone is okay. Water, healthcare, divisiveness, lack of conflict resolution, all of those incredible things that we look to, to create salvation for a disharmonious planet, would be healed through the raising of consciousness, which is fueled, in my mind, by the divine feminine being upheld in society. Yes, both bodies, all races. So raising the feminine, period.

• 1:01:33Lewis Howes?

  Interesting, okay. If you had a piece of paper, it's your last day.

• 1:01:38Speaker 01

  Of my life?

• 1:01:39Lewis Howes?

  Yes. In many, many years from now.

• 1:01:41Speaker 01

  I would turn it into a veggie burger.

• 1:01:46Lewis Howes?

  It's, you know, decades from now, it's your last day.

• 1:01:49Speaker 01

  Thank you for saying that.

• 1:01:50Lewis Howes?

  Yes, you're a hundred and something years old.

• 1:01:52Speaker 01

  Twenty-two.

• 1:01:52Lewis Howes?

  There you go.

• 1:01:53Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:01:54Lewis Howes?

  You've got, all your music has been erased. Every book, every website, everything you've ever put out there has been erased.

• 1:02:00Speaker 01

  Wow, there's actually a relief in that. It takes the micro pressure and shuts it off.

• 1:02:04Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:02:04Speaker 01

  Okay, or the macro one, sorry.

• 1:02:06Lewis Howes?

  Everything's gone, and no one has access to your stuff anymore.

• 1:02:09Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:02:09Lewis Howes?

  All your lyrics, your whole heart and soul.

• 1:02:11Speaker 01

  My whole body, my whole body just relax.

• 1:02:13Lewis Howes?

  Your whole heart, your soul, your life's work.

• 1:02:15Speaker 01

  Well, that's kind of what's going to happen when the body goes.

• 1:02:17Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:17Speaker 01

  I mean, none of this is going to be relevant.

• 1:02:19Lewis Howes?

  Right, none of this is going to be relevant.

• 1:02:21Speaker 01

  Talk about relevant.

• 1:02:23Lewis Howes?

  But you have a, you have your family there, everything most important to you is there. And you've got a piece of paper and a pen and they say, Grandma, great, great, great grandma, we love you, but we have nothing to remember you by, except for this piece of paper that you're gonna write something down for us.

• 1:02:41Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:02:41Lewis Howes?

  And we want you to write down three truths that you know to be true about life. That this is what will be remembered by what you say. Cause none of the stuff you ever said, we can't listen to anymore.

• 1:02:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, we don't have access.

• 1:02:52Lewis Howes?

  We don't have access. So you have a piece of paper and three truths you get to write down that you know to be so true about life. What would you say are those three truths?

• 1:03:00Speaker 01

  Well, the first one, I'll just repeat, which is-

• 1:03:02Lewis Howes?

  The trillion dollar.

• 1:03:04Speaker 01

  The trillion-

• 1:03:04Lewis Howes?

  The feminist thing.

• 1:03:05Speaker 01

  Is the fem- is, is the feminine, if, when the masculine, powerful masculine in all of us serves the feminine agenda, all is well.

• 1:03:15Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 1:03:15Speaker 01

  Okay. The other is a drawing that I would do, it's my definition of love, which is someone, I was dating someone in my twenties and they said, what's your definition of love? And I said, I'm gonna draw it. So I just drew two stick figures and one stick figure goes, you. And the other stick figure goes, no, you.

• 1:03:34Speaker 01

  So it's both people wanting to serve each other.

• 1:03:36Lewis Howes?

  Oh, will you draw that for me before we leave?

• 1:03:38Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:03:38Lewis Howes?

  Okay, cool.

• 1:03:39Speaker 01

  And then the third one would be, um, I just would pull back, you know, if we look at how many galaxies there are and the new, new ones discovered all the time, how tiny. And then, you know, the spiritual concept of there being no such thing as time, that if we look at how short this period of time is that we're on the earth and, you know, not so, not so much to reduce how quote unquote important we are, but to reduce the, um,

• 1:04:07Speaker 01

  the scarcity of thinking that it all has to happen now, that it'll all unfold in perfect time and that life is happening and it's happening through us, with us and without us. So taking some of the preciousness away and letting people have a little bit of an outbreath, tiny bit, maybe a little more levity and lightness.

• 1:04:23Lewis Howes?

  Not to wear this weight on the world of like, it's all on me or something, right?

• 1:04:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:27Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 1:04:27Speaker 01

  That's, I mean, that's just off the top of my-

• 1:04:29Lewis Howes?

  Those are good, those are good starts. You'll be able to say much more, but I just wanna know that.

• 1:04:34Speaker 01

  No, this is it.

• 1:04:35Lewis Howes?

  This is all you can ever say.

• 1:04:38Lewis Howes?

  What are you most grateful for in your life recently?

• 1:04:42Speaker 01

  Whoa, where to begin? I'm grateful for conversation, conversations like this where one plus one equals seven. I'm really grateful for that. And I've been able to do it more publicly in my podcast in this moment. I just, I've always loved interviews for that. There's a self-definition component, there's a teaching component, there's a service component, there's a humor component. So it kind of blends everything I live for. So conversation. Mercy. Just really, really grateful for tenderness in the face of what could be violent. You know, I grew up around a lot of reactivity and a lot of scariness. And so being in environments where people err on the side of being tender when they could

• 1:05:27Speaker 01

  not be. I'm always so grateful for that.

• 1:05:29Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. What do you think's missing in your life right now?

• 1:05:32Speaker 01

  Oh, that's a good question.

• 1:05:36Lewis Howes?

  Got a little something there.

• 1:05:37Speaker 01

  I don't know what. I'm like, what's missing? Maybe a little more water, like more wakeboarding.

• 1:05:46Lewis Howes?

  Oh, I was gonna say, it just rained.

• 1:05:47Speaker 01

  I know. I'm not that, well, I could wakeboard the droplets. Maybe a little more engines and water.

• 1:05:54Lewis Howes?

  Ocean?

• 1:05:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:56Lewis Howes?

  Go to the ocean a lot?

• 1:05:57Speaker 01

  Yes, I do. I spend a lot of time in Malibu. So more paddle boarding. It's a little cold right now, but.

• 1:06:02Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Come on, it's not that cold. It's cold. They made a wet suit out there.

• 1:06:06Speaker 01

  Although, when I first moved here, I would always swim out in the ocean in December. It's kind of cold, come on.

• 1:06:11Lewis Howes?

  It is chilly.

• 1:06:12Speaker 01

  And all these surfers would swim over and they'd say, are you from Canada? And I'd say, yeah, how do you know? And they'd say, you're the only one not in a wet suit out here. You have to be from Canada.

• 1:06:21Lewis Howes?

  That's funny. Okay. So that's what's missing, more water, sports and activities. What's the biggest fear right now?

• 1:06:29Speaker 01

  Biggest fear is that I have so much in me and that somehow something, I gotta knock on a bunch of wood, that somehow I won't get it out in time. And that scarcity mindset. But just, I just really want to make sure that I can help as much as I possibly can, which would mean getting it out through song or through a book or through my site. And I'm on it. It's not like I'm not cooking.

• 1:06:53Lewis Howes?

  What have you not gotten out yet that you really want to get out?

• 1:06:55Speaker 01

  Just things that could help people.

• 1:06:57Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, okay.

• 1:06:58Speaker 01

  Or at least would be available to help people. That would kill me if there were so many things I could have done to help and I missed it.

• 1:07:07Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 1:07:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:08Lewis Howes?

  What's something you're most proud of that no one knows about? That's not talked about in the world and.

• 1:07:14Speaker 01

  Uh, I think how much I manage. You know, that I use both sides of my brain all the time. I'm managing my house and the career and the ideas and the vision and the charities and the. You know, I'm just managing a lot. And I, in some ways, I know to the outside eye, it might look like there's an effortlessness and a breeziness to it. But it's a lot.

• 1:07:34Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, okay. What do you want your son to know about you? When he grows up?

• 1:07:42Speaker 01

  This combination and that ideally it would be in him and I already see it happening in him. So I'm a happy mama. But um. But that there's both, you know, whenever we're playing sports or whenever he's trying something new or he's doing a lot of gymnastics right now, like. That this combination of brazenness, this cockiness, this power combined with this grace and humility and. Prayer that that both that duality together is a really powerful force.

• 1:08:11Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:12Speaker 01

  So being going in with graciousness, but power.

• 1:08:15Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:15Speaker 01

  That combo platter is nice.

• 1:08:17Lewis Howes?

  That's cool.

• 1:08:17Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:08:18Lewis Howes?

  What's the one quality that you wanna take on that you haven't taken on yet?

• 1:08:23Speaker 01

  Um.

• 1:08:25Speaker 01

  Just being a little less guilty when I say no, I say no all the time.

• 1:08:29Lewis Howes?

  You have to.

• 1:08:30Speaker 01

  I do.

• 1:08:31Lewis Howes?

  Cause you get asked.

• 1:08:31Speaker 01

  I mean, I wouldn't be here if I didn't say no a billion times.

• 1:08:34Lewis Howes?

  You get asked all the time, I can only imagine.

• 1:08:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:36Lewis Howes?

  To do things, to show up for events, charities.

• 1:08:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, see that I don't have so much trouble saying no to because there's only so much a body can do.

• 1:08:44Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:08:44Speaker 01

  It's the, I have a little bit of a caretaking thing. When I'm disempowered, I go to the two on the Enneagram. And so basically just to watch that, you know. Women especially, I think are sold the thought that if you don't give that you're innately bad.

• 1:09:00Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 1:09:00Speaker 01

  So I just gotta watch that.

• 1:09:01Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, okay.

• 1:09:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:03Lewis Howes?

  What's the one question that you've never been asked, you've always wanted to been asked and answer?

• 1:09:07Speaker 01

  Um.

• 1:09:08Lewis Howes?

  Cause you've probably been asked a million, every question I've probably asked you, you've probably been asked a million times.

• 1:09:12Speaker 01

  About that, I'd have to think about that one.

• 1:09:14Lewis Howes?

  But what's, is there a question that you always wish someone asked that they never have? That you would love to answer?

• 1:09:20Speaker 01

  Just, uh, you know, what are you, what are you feeling?

• 1:09:23Lewis Howes?

  What are you feeling?

• 1:09:24Speaker 01

  What am I feeling? Well, the thing is, the reason why I think some people are afraid to ask me is because I'm usually feeling about 12 things at the same time.

• 1:09:30Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 1:09:31Speaker 01

  So I'm feeling, are you asking me?

• 1:09:32Lewis Howes?

  I'm asking you, yes. Is this the question that no? How are you feeling? What are you feeling?

• 1:09:38Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:09:38Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:09:38Speaker 01

  Okay, I'm feeling giddy. I feel terrified always. I think I always have a little element of anxiety coursing through my system.

• 1:09:48Lewis Howes?

  Especially as a mom, probably. It's like.

• 1:09:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:50Lewis Howes?

  I'm at a level.

• 1:09:51Speaker 01

  That took it to a whole other level, but I always had anxiety.

• 1:09:53Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:54Speaker 01

  It's just like a general chronic anxiety.

• 1:09:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, I would say giddy and nervous and yeah, those two.

• 1:10:03Lewis Howes?

  Okay, cool. Well, I want to wrap it up by acknowledging you for a moment. We're going to get into promoting some of the things you have going on.

• 1:10:11Speaker 01

  You can do that part.

• 1:10:11Lewis Howes?

  But at the end of every episode, I like to acknowledge my guests for coming on.

• 1:10:16Speaker 01

  So sweet.

• 1:10:17Lewis Howes?

  And for what opened up for me during the episode.

• 1:10:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, tell me.

• 1:10:19Lewis Howes?

  So I want to acknowledge you, Alanis, for your incredible love and humility and openness and graciousness and your commitment to serving people. I can experience, I feel that you are so, your heart is so big. And you've gone through so much pain and struggle. And yet you continue to step up to serve the maximum number of people in a way that works best for you. And sometimes it doesn't work best for you.

• 1:10:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:53Lewis Howes?

  And so I acknowledge you for your incredible gifts, for your incredible love and for the grace in which you've done everything for the last 20 years since you've been in the spotlight. From my experience, it seems very graceful because I could only imagine the amount of pressure and weight you've had to carry or that you've you've put on yourself or that other people have. And you've come out so beautifully and open. And it's amazing to see that you're living like your life the way you want to live it. And. Inspiring people around you. So I want to acknowledge you for all those things.

• 1:11:30Speaker 01

  Thanks.

• 1:11:30Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. My final question before I ask it is, I want everyone to make sure to go subscribe to Conversations with Alanis Morissette on iTunes. I listened to the second episode this morning. Catherine Wilber Thomas, who introduced us, is the first episode. So I highly recommend checking it out. You do it a monthly show, right?

• 1:11:49Speaker 01

  It's monthly for now, yeah.

• 1:11:51Lewis Howes?

  So go subscribe. Check out Alanis.com. The site is beautiful. There's lots of great content out there, articles, a lot of writing. And 20th anniversary of your famous record. So go pick up the record. And what else? You got a book coming out when?

• 1:12:10Speaker 01

  Yes, I'm finishing it over the next few months. So it's tons of stories and I couldn't just have a whole story that, or a whole book just based on memoir. It wouldn't be enough for me. So I'm putting a bunch of teachings in, so bridging that braided narrative. I think I'll be done that in 2016 at some point.

• 1:12:28Lewis Howes?

  Okay, cool.

• 1:12:29Speaker 01

  And then.

• 1:12:29Lewis Howes?

  Do a publisher with that or is that self-published?

• 1:12:31Speaker 01

  I do.

• 1:12:31Lewis Howes?

  Okay, cool.

• 1:12:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, Gideon.

• 1:12:32Lewis Howes?

  All right.

• 1:12:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, Harper One. So basically, when that's done, I'll take a little bit of time off and then I'm going to go right into writing a new record because I'm dying. I've been holding the record hostage. I have to because I would just keep writing six more records and never get that book done.

• 1:12:49Lewis Howes?

  So you gotta finish one day.

• 1:12:50Speaker 01

  I'm holding it hostage. It's quite torturous, actually.

• 1:12:53Lewis Howes?

  That's great. Okay, cool. Anything else? I just started following you on Instagram. So you're on Instagram, you're on the Twitters, you're on the Facebooks, you're on everywhere.

• 1:13:01Speaker 01

  She's on the Twitters.

• 1:13:02Lewis Howes?

  Go follow her everywhere. We'll have everything linked up in the show notes here so you can check out all the things we talked about. Anything else that we should be doing?

• 1:13:09Speaker 01

  That's great. You're just so nailed it. Thank you.

• 1:13:12Lewis Howes?

  Okay, perfect.

• 1:13:13Speaker 01

  Yeah. Thank you for your graciousness and your intelligences and your humor and your openness and your mission and living it so fully. Bless you.

• 1:13:22Lewis Howes?

  I appreciate it. Thanks. I've got one final question.

• 1:13:24Speaker 01

  Yes?

• 1:13:25Lewis Howes?

  It's what's your definition of greatness? And is it another picture or is it?

• 1:13:30Speaker 01

  It probably is. I'll give it to you. Greatness is self-knowledge expressed.

• 1:13:38Lewis Howes?

  Alanis Morissette, thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate it.

• 1:13:41Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:13:44Lewis Howes?

  There you have it guys, I hope you enjoyed this interview. It was such a privilege and a incredible experience to connect with Alanis. So down-to-earth, so loving, so present, and I was so grateful for her time and her energy and her wisdom. She has so much to give and to share. So make sure if you enjoyed this episode, share it with your friends over on Facebook and Twitter and Instagram. Use the link lewishouse.com/266. I think people need to hear her message and I want to make sure we get this out there in a big way. Also, if this is your first time here on the podcast, thank you for coming. Thank you for celebrating this message of greatness. Make sure to subscribe over on iTunes, on SoundCloud, on Stitcher, and leave us a review

• 1:14:25Lewis Howes?

  over on iTunes as well, because those reviews help us continue to stay in the top of the rankings on iTunes. Again, such a privilege to have Alanis on, so grateful for her. Make sure to share this out, lewishouse.com/266. Subscribe to our free newsletter where we give away some of the top tools, resources, and information on how to live a better life and also build an income and build a business around your dreams. So make sure to go to lewishouse.com to sign up there. We've got big, big things coming very soon. The end of the year is near and I'm very excited to share with you what we have coming very soon. Thank you guys so much for being the support that you are. Thank you for spreading the message of greatness. You guys know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.