The Technology Bigger than AI w/ Jack Hidary | EP #68

In this episode, recorded this year at Peter’s Executive Summit, Abundance360, Peter and Jack discuss exponential technologies of the future, such as Quantum technologies, entrepreneurship, and the transformative potential of innovative mindsets. 13:57 | Quantum Technology Now Accessible 1:12:38 | Molecular Medicines, Faster? 1:17:46 | The Software Quantum Revolution Jack Hidary is a renowned entrepreneur and technology visionary. He’s the leader of SandboxAQ, a company at the forefront of AI and Quantum tech through enterprise SaaS solutions. He's the acclaimed author of "Quantum Computing: An Applied Approach," a leading textbook in its field, and has co-authored AI research papers with MIT collaborators. As a serial entrepreneur, Jack co-founded several tech ventures, notably EarthWeb/Dice, which he led from inception to its IPO, and Vista Research, later acquired by S&P/McGraw-Hill. Learn more about SanboxAQ Learn more about my executive summit, Abundance360 _____________ I only endorse products and services I personally use. To see what they are, please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors: Get started with Fountain Life and become the CEO of your health: https://fountainlife.com/peter/ Use my code MOONSHOTS for 25% off your first month of Seed’s DS-01®. Learn More About Seed's DS-01® _____________ I send weekly emails with the latest insights and trends on today’s and tomorrow’s exponential technologies. Stay ahead of the curve, and sign up now: Tech Blog Get my new Longevity Practices book for free: https://www.diamandis.com/longevity My new book with Salim Ismail, Exponential Organizations 2.0: The New Playbook for 10x Growth and Impact, is now available on Amazon: https://bit.ly/3P3j54J _____________ Connect With Peter: Twitter Instagram Youtube Moonshots Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:26Speaker 01

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• 0:35Speaker 02

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  Cut the bullspend. See revenue, not just reach. LinkedIn delivers the highest return on ad spend of major ad networks. Advertise on LinkedIn. Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a $250 credit. Go to LinkedIn.com/campaign. Terms and conditions apply. Quantum computers. Quantum mechanics. Quantum physics.

• 1:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's a quantum processor. And inside are these actual, physical qubits.

• 1:06Speaker 04

  There's many quantum technologies that are actually here and now.

• 1:10Peter Diamandis?

  These ideas didn't even exist not too long ago.

• 1:14Speaker 04

  This is what's possible now, Peter.

• 1:19Speaker 04

  OK, we have quantum computers and quantum sensors and quantum security. What is going on here? Underlying all this is quantum information science, is QIS.

• 1:32Speaker 04

  Our world at a fundamental level is not the Newtonian world that we're used to. It's not the billion ball world that we're used to. At a fundamental level, it is a quantum world. We're the first human generation who can finally harness, not just the world of bits and not just shaping furniture and stuff in the macro world, but harnessing the ability to manipulate the atomic and quantum world. We are that first generation.

• 2:00Speaker 04

  Great to see everyone. Wow! This is not a conference. This is a happening.

• 2:05Peter Diamandis?

  This is... this... This is a community and a conversation about

• 2:13Peter Diamandis?

  how the world's changing. And then importantly, Jack, something that you care deeply about. How do we use these extraordinary technologies to make the world a better place?

• 2:24Speaker 04

  But most importantly first, Peter.

• 2:25Peter Diamandis?

  Yes.

• 2:27Speaker 04

  Before we actually speak about quantum, one very important thing.

• 2:30Peter Diamandis?

  Please.

• 2:30Speaker 04

  For a gathering like this. Does everyone have a drink? Okay.

• 2:36Peter Diamandis?

  Is the bar still open, by the way?

• 2:39Speaker 04

  We find that quantum is more easily digested with a little alcohol, so...

• 2:47Peter Diamandis?

  So you just closed $500 million as like your seed round? That's awesome. That's epic. And, uh, yeah, let's give it up for that.

• 2:58Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 3:01Peter Diamandis?

  God, we go back a long way. And I'm so... I have no right to be this proud of you, but I'm tremendously proud of you.

• 3:11Speaker 04

  We go back, Peter, to the very early days of X Prize.

• 3:14Peter Diamandis?

  Yes.

• 3:15Speaker 04

  There's some early X Prizes here. Let's hear it for X Prize. X Prize.

• 3:21Speaker 04

  The look on Peter's face many, many years ago when Anusha Ansari and her family... Where's Anusha? The amazing Anusha. There it is. And her family stepped up and gave us enough money, not for the prize, but for the insurance for the prize.

• 3:38Peter Diamandis?

  Hole-in-one insurance, well said.

• 3:40Speaker 04

  Hole-in-one insurance. And it happened. Just weeks before the expiration, Burt Muttan and his team got up there to space and opened up the private space industry. The vision of Peter, incredible. So, thank you, Peter, for opening up.

• 3:59Speaker 04

  Peter, to honor your commitment in opening up space, we prepared a number of very technical drawings based on you going to space. So I want to show this now.

• 4:11Speaker 04

  Peter Diamandis playing golf on Mars. Now, one of the sides is terraform. Mars is already terraformed, that's why you have no space suit. In the other one, I love how Stable Diffusion created a golf caddy bag that is itself also a space suit. I think that is just fantastic. And look at Peter's form here on the right. I mean, just flawless.

• 4:33Peter Diamandis?

  Impeccable. Well, it's 1/3 gravity, it's 0.38 gravity, so it's kind of tough.

• 4:39Speaker 04

  Go ahead.

• 4:42Peter Diamandis?

  So, we had Eric Schmidt on stage with us last year.

• 4:45Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 4:46Peter Diamandis?

  And this was just around the time...

• 4:48Speaker 04

  We were just about to spin out, just before spinning out.

• 4:50Peter Diamandis?

  Just about to spin out from Alphabet. And Eric's brilliant, but he's an amazing persona. What's it like to have Eric Schmidt as your chairman?

• 5:03Speaker 04

  Well, we were very lucky. We started this inside Alphabet, and Alphabet was an incredible partner and platform to build this out. First and foremost, you have a lot of free sushi, which fuels the team. And in all seriousness, Sergey and the entire team, Astro, incredible support for more than five years in stealth inside Alphabet, building this out. Five, six years ago, Peter, this...

• 5:31Peter Diamandis?

  You were inside of X.

• 5:33Speaker 04

  Of Alphabet, yeah. And specifically housed inside X, the moonshot factory.

• 5:39Peter Diamandis?

  And we've had Astro like three or four times over the years. And I remember I'd meet you there, right? Astro was always on his rollerblades and he'd be there. I was like, huh, why is Jack here? Now we know.

• 5:49Speaker 04

  And I'd be able to say some kind of very general things about, yes, we're working on some interesting things. That's about what we can say for five years. And around 2020, Eric was wrapping up. First, he was CEO, of course, of Google, and then Chairman of Google and Alphabet for another eight, nine years. And in 2020, he was ready to wrap that up. And he came to Sergey and myself, and he said... Of all the things here at Alphabet, 150,000 people, incredible projects, there's one I want to work on for the next decade of my life, and that is Sandbox. That is this fusion, this convergence of AI and quantum. Two twin engines that will change the world, and we're going to talk about that tonight.

• 6:31Speaker 04

  And he said, "If you'll have me, you know, I'll join you guys." And I thought about it for a few months, no, for a few seconds. And Eric became part of the team. And so when it was time to spin out, we all discussed it and we realized this is the moment. We needed to drive this growth faster and adoption faster and needed to bring this out to the world. And Eric then took on the role of chairman and myself as CEO. So, one of our first things, Peter, one of the first orders of business of any chairman and CEO was to go find an office space, right? That's a typical thing that we do, right? I just moved down to San Francisco. Yeah, I mean, you know, you look at Palo Alto, you can look at a lot of great... I just came from Austin, another great tech center. So, we went scouting. Austin, any Austons here? Yes, yes.

• 7:15Speaker 04

  Justice with Jay, the president of UT Austin, incredible tech center brewing there. And so, any guesses where this location is? And, any guesses? So, I'll just give you a hint. It's the sun is setting and rising at the same moment.

• 7:32Speaker 04

  Alaska is one good guess. Iceland, another good guess. A little farther south? Antarctica, yes. And so, of course, Eric and I had to go down there recently and check it out to scout for various things. But in all seriousness, Eric and I went down there with... We brought actually 15 scientists that we curated from around the world, Peter. Glaciologists, whale scientists, penguin scientists, scientists who cover the gamut of the... Not only the climate sciences, but all the biodiversity also. And we'll talk more about that in a little bit. And we have a lot of workers down there. A whole staff of people who are buttoned up and dressed very, very nicely down there.

• 8:15Speaker 04

  And here, we brought a submarine down there, a research sub. And this is one of the first... First expeditions to actually go underwater and be able to classify. And we actually believe we had with us one of the foremost scientists uh who studies the southern ocean marine life. We believe we may have actually discovered two new species on this expedition. And the whole aim of the expedition was to

• 8:36Peter Diamandis?

  Geeks with personalities and whatnot.

• 8:38Speaker 04

  Yeah, the whole, the whole aim of the expedition was to bring AI and quantum science to climate change, to the climate science, to the ice science, to the biodiversity science.

• 8:49Peter Diamandis?

  You sent me a WhatsApp from Antarctica.

• 8:51Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 8:51Peter Diamandis?

  And I'm like, I had no idea we're down. It's like, what are you going to search for cold for quantum computers or something?

• 8:57Speaker 04

  Yeah, and so, so we actually realized that um that we can actually accelerate the science of understanding what's happening to our planet with both AI and quantum. And hopefully we'll have time today to go more into that. But uh we did come to a really big epiphany down there that indeed we can, we can make this happen. And the beauty of our planet is very evident down there. This is a snow patrol flying by us. And um just an incredible place. If you want to take a time machine um that back to 10, 20 million years ago, I asked the uh one of the scientists with us, I said, if we were here 10 million years ago, if we were here standing on this rock, the rock that we were standing on right there,

• 9:42Speaker 04

  we don't believe humans have stood on unfortunately uh ever before. This was covered in ice just um a number of years ago. And according to the records, we're the first expedition to have an icebreaker big enough to get in to this place and take recordings and data. And so unfortunately, um this, this is a newly uncovered piece of land. And what I asked a number of the scientists on, on the trip, I said, because one of them said, hey, penguins, I said, what's the origin of those penguins? They said they split off and speciated 38 million years ago. I said, all right, 38 million years ago, these penguins, the Adelies, the chin straps, the gentoos, the three species that we were with uh right there in that uh near that land.

• 10:25Speaker 04

  And I said, if we were here 10 million years ago, on this land right here near the penguins, if we were here 20 million years ago, what would we see? If we took our sub down 10 million years ago and saw the marine life there, what would we see? And each one of them said, you'd see exactly what you're seeing right now, except for the fact that obviously the ice looked quite different. And so it's amazing to kind of go back in time into a land beyond, into a place of stillness, Peter. A place that is, that captures what our planet was like for millions and millions of years. And then to start to quantify using these new tools that we have now

• 11:07Speaker 04

  to understand the dynamics of how we are impacting this planet. So that was really an incredible journey, both in place, but also in spirit. And I encourage folks to go down there to experience this, but also to contribute to the science. We'll talk later about how people can get involved.

• 11:25Peter Diamandis?

  Those photos of Eric Schmidt there with his camera and so forth, remind me, I took Eric and Larry and Sergey on a trip to Russia, Kazakhstan, to see a Soyuz launch. And it was extraordinary. And he's just with his cameras, I just love his photography.

• 11:42Speaker 04

  Yeah. So he's been great. To answer your question, he's been incredible support. And you know, the philosophy that we had, both when we were inside Alphabet and now outside, is the moonshot thinking that we have, you know, so developed at XPRIZE and at X. And you know, the moonshot thinkers in this audience, everyone here is a moonshot thinker. Otherwise, you wouldn't be here right now. Everyone is here and have self-selected yourself to come here to say, how can I take this kind of thinking, but turn it into action, right? The folks, I see a lot of friends in the audience here. The people here are doers. And that's really what we need to make this impact.

• 12:19Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, amazing. Let's talk about the, the basic concepts right now that we're going to be talking about. You know, everybody's heard about quantum computers. We've been talking about quantum computers for years. The idea of like quantum supremacy was a, was a term that was used along the way. And last year, you started saying, no, it's about quantum technologies.

• 12:46Peter Diamandis?

  That's really what is hot and is going to drive revenue and immediate value. Can you take a second and walk us through the difference between quantum computers and quantum technologies?

• 12:56Speaker 04

  Yeah, sure. So, I think most people here have heard about quantum computers. You hear about it in the press, there's a lot of buzz around that. And there should be some buzz around that, but that's going to be a longer-term impact. To build these computers, we have to have error correction. Every one of your phones right now that you're holding, every laptop that you have has error correction in it. Believe it or not, these errors can come from a lot of different sources, including muons from the cosmos can actually cause some errors in your computers. And in most computers, we can get away with having three bits for every one bit that we want to signify, and so we kind of take a vote. Two out of three bits, say it's a one, let's go with the one, in case there was an error in one of the bits.

• 13:41Speaker 04

  But in the case of quantum computers, our ratio is a thousand to one, a thousand physical qubits to one logical or fault-tolerant qubit. And what is a qubit? A qubit is the logical computing unit of a quantum computer, a quantum bit or qubit. And there are seven different ways to build these kind of quantum computers, and they each have a completely different physics. Some are cryogenic, some are super cold, minus 200 or even colder, and in one case, you have to bring it down to six to seven milli Kelvin above absolute zero. Okay, so it's really, really cold. Others are room temperature, right? And so there's lots of different ways to build it.

• 14:24Speaker 04

  You can use photons, you can use ions, you can use neutral atoms, lots of different ways to build it. But in general, we're on a quest, as an industry, to build these things. We decided at Sandbox, Peter, not to build one of these computers because we saw that there was a great ecosystem already building it. We wanted to encourage this ecosystem. Instead, we focus more on the application layer, both on GPUs, the chips of today, and QPUs, these quantum processing units. But beyond quantum computing, Peter, the big picture, one of the big takeaways that I'd love to share with you all today is that there's many quantum technologies that are actually here and now. They do not require error correction.

• 15:07Speaker 04

  They do not require the fault tolerance that we're talking about with quantum computing. One of those examples is quantum sensing. Sensors that can detect magnetic fields around us. This blew me away. And we're going to talk about that today, uh, tonight, and talk about how magnetic fields are all around us, including those that emanate from our bodies. Um, every time you have electricity, electrons on the move, electricity, you have a magnetic field. Faraday taught us that in the 1800s. And so, there's magnetic fields coming from our body. Any ideas from the audience about an example of magnetic field coming from an electric shock in your body that happens pretty often? Any ideas of an organ in your body that is producing a, an electric shock pretty often?

• 15:52Speaker 04

  About, say, 70 times a minute or 80 times a minute, any ideas? The heart, right? And so those pacemaker cells, um, are causing a contraction of that big muscle called the heart, just another muscle, and it contracts and squeezes and blood goes everywhere, hopefully in the right places. Um, and as that's happening, as that's happening, a magnetic field is also being produced. Orthogonal to electric field is the magnetic field. And that magnetic field is something that we can finally now sense using quantum sensors. And so we'll talk about what the implications are. And then there's another application, um, that really is global in nature and something that we did down in Antarctica with our quantum sensor, right down there on that trip just a number of weeks ago.

• 16:36Speaker 04

  So, um, quantum sensing, Peter, is something that's here today. We're using it right now. And that has not gotten the press. So, it's good everyone came to A360 because you get the information right here, right now, in terms of, uh, the, the quantum sensors. There's also quantum simulation. And quantum simulation is the kind of breakthrough technology we need for...

• 16:58Speaker 04

  Digital twins of drugs. And we'll talk about that, talk about that as well. So, uh, the, all these technologies, quantum simulation, quantum sensing, these are the kind of technologies that we do not need quantum computers for. We do not need error correction for. And so, these are the technologies that we are focused on right now.

• 17:17Peter Diamandis?

  To drive your business?

• 17:18Speaker 04

  Well, not to drive business, but to drive impact, right? Because, you know, our philosophy, your philosophy, Peter, same one, is that when you drive impact for billions of people, you will have a business, right? You will have a very robust global business. And our ambition is nothing short to be one of the most, if not the most impactful company on this planet. Not the biggest company, you don't have to be the biggest company anymore. In fact, what we're showing is that with smaller and smaller teams, you can have bigger and bigger impact, given the forcing factors that you have with both AI and quantum.

• 17:53Peter Diamandis?

  So, let's rattle them off. This quantum computation, we've talked about it a little bit. Uh, I want to hit one more thing there and then we'll come back. Quantum sensing, uh, quantum communications?

• 18:04Speaker 04

  Yes. Quantum security, yeah.

• 18:06Peter Diamandis?

  Quantum encryption?

• 18:07Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 18:08Peter Diamandis?

  Uh, do you put quantum chemistry into this?

• 18:12Speaker 04

  So, quantum chemistry is that quantum simulation. It's that digital twinning of a molecule of, if we want to do battery chemistry for clean energy.

• 18:19Peter Diamandis?

  And you also group quantum medicine in that?

• 18:21Speaker 04

  It's all in there, all in there, yeah. And so, all that is happening right now. Now, quantum computers, as they rise up, and we're encouraging them and working with these teams around the world to make it happen.

• 18:31Peter Diamandis?

  How many quantum companies are there, you think, out there?

• 18:33Speaker 04

  There's about four dozen really strong quantum.

• 18:37Peter Diamandis?

  That's about 50, by the way.

• 18:38Speaker 04

  Yeah, about, uh, four dozen quantum computing companies out there. Uh, they've gotten some good funding and most of them have spun out of really good labs at universities. Uh, we're encouraging them. I mentioned there's seven different ways to build a quantum computer. And here's what's great news. The great news is that we see a diversity of ideas out there. We do not see group thing. What we know, for example, from the history of technology, the last 50, 60 years, look at the AI winter. Look what happened in 1969, in the first AI winter, when a book was published, Perceptron, that said, "Ah, this neural network idea, not sure it has any legs." Right? Anyone know the author of that? Of that book Perceptron 1969 that killed off.

• 19:20Speaker 04

  Yep, you got it. And so that and the Lighthouse Report in the UK.

• 19:26Speaker 04

  Basically said, hey, neural networks, cute idea, brain inspired, not going to scale. Let's use reasoning and conditionals and if then statements. That's how we're going to get artificial intelligence. And of course, that was not correct. And there was a few handful of people who believed still in the idea of distributed networked. Ideas of neural networks. And those people went to the only country that was funding them. Canada, CIFAR, Canadian Institute for Advanced Research. And that's why it's not a coincidence. That the folks who just got the Turing Award for being the deans of neural networks. Right, Jeff Hinton, Yushua Bengio, Jan Le Cun. Where did do all their work? Which country? Canada.

• 20:08Speaker 04

  Because that was the place where you can have a diversity of opinions and say, there's another way of doing machine learning. And now we see, and I think you've discussed it here yesterday about GPT and all the incredible things that we now see from that. So it's very important, we're watching very carefully in the quantum space, Peter, that we stay on course in terms of having, you know, avoiding group think and having a large number of opinions across the board. That's critical to making sure that we don't too early get into a rut that can lead to the kind of AI winters we saw in such a. Can you imagine if we had 25 years of extra research on AI? Where would we be today? We lost 25 years of work.

• 20:52Speaker 04

  So we want to make sure we don't repeat that again.

• 20:54Peter Diamandis?

  Amazing. So why don't we jump into some of these? I want people to appreciate what becomes possible because what you've described to me seems magical. Do you want to start with quantum sensing?

• 21:10Speaker 04

  Sure, let's start with quantum sensing. And I think one of the big themes, Peter, that I'd love to share with you all tonight is the move from bits to bits and atoms. And the tech sector, I'd give us a pretty good grade for manipulating bits, moving bits, creating bits, pattern recognition with bits right now with all the AI that's and now generating new kinds of bits from other bits. So in the bits column, I'd say pretty good tech sector. But in the area of atoms, the area that actually impacts our lives in a very deep way, molecule to medicine, battery chemistry for electric vehicles, for stationary storage of solar and wind,

• 21:53Speaker 04

  material science for new kinds of solar panels. We're hitting a limit. New catalysts. New catalysts that do not depend on rare earth and so on and so forth. This area, the actual world we physically live in, this era, I would give ourselves in the tech sector a failing grade. Because we haven't done much. If you look at the way that we develop and design drugs today compared to 10, 20 years ago, basically roughly the same. Same time, same amount of money, same kind of failure rate. We'll talk about it in a minute. But let's talk about sensing now. When we look at medical imaging, I started my career at NIH combining physics and neuroscience and AI, bringing those disciplines together

• 22:36Speaker 04

  to help move forward a field of functional neuroimaging. Imaging that was not just static, but looking at a moving image of the brain. Because we went in and with the help of Siemens and GE and Philips, we opened up those machines. And we tweaked them so we can take images much faster with the physics inside. And those are actually quantum devices. And so we haven't seen a lot more diagnostic revolutions until now. And so let me see if I can move on. And so, yeah, so that's the bits to bits in atoms, something that we need to get to. And I want to now get to sensing here. Let's just jump right here. Okay, here we go. So a number of really, really smart academics,

• 23:20Speaker 04

  about 22 years ago, Peter, said, "Hey, we want to build these quantum computers. We just talked about different ways of building them." But the thing with quantum computers is that to keep them coherent, to keep them in those states of superposition and entanglement, these very, very delicate states of the quantum world, is very difficult. If there's a magnetic field around, it'll knock it off its pedestal. And you have to restart that qubit. If there's stray photons around, you'll have to restart that qubit. So some enterprising academic said, "Wait a second, let's turn that bug..." Into a feature. Let's say, hey, if it's so sensitive to the outside world, let's stop calling it a qubit, let's call it a sensor.

• 24:02Speaker 04

  Fantastic, okay. So, they said, alright, we're gonna call it a sensor, and what are some of the sensors they have? I'll give you an example right here. It's a quantum diamond. We make these diamonds with our partners. There's no mining of diamonds here. We synthesize these, and this is not the synthesis you'd imagine of taking some carbon and crushing it at high pressures. This is layer by layer. The kind of way we do, techniques that we take from semiconductors. And we create layers of carbon. Of course, carbon is one of the primary constituents, right? And in the case of normal diamonds, the only constituent. But here, we dope in some nitrogen. We actually keep a spacer, so we have a vacancy. And this nitrogen vacancy center in diamond, NV diamond, is a quantum system.

• 24:46Speaker 04

  The electrons hanging out in that little center right there, we can manipulate those electrons. We can move them from a ground state to a higher state, a quantum state. And again, the thing to remember about quantum, what is this world of quantum? The idea of quantized is that it's discreteized. These electrons cannot exist anywhere between. It's like rungs of a ladder versus a ramp. A ramp, you can exist anywhere along that ramp. But rungs of a ladder, you're either on this rung or the next rung. And that's what we have over here. We have a quantum system that says if we pop in some green light to give energy to those electrons, we'll move them from a ground state, Peter, we'll move them to an excited state. And when we stop our green light and we let those electrons come back down, of course, conservation of energy,

• 25:31Speaker 04

  they're gonna have to give out energy. They're gonna have to release photons. And those are the red photons you see over here. And we can measure with great exquisite precision those red photons. And what does that tell us? Well, what it tells us is the magnetic field, the strength of the magnetic field that that diamond is in or near. And now we have a magnetometer, a magnetic sensor, such as we've never had on Earth before. With a level of precision, how much? So specifically, if we have someone's heart, and let's now go to heart, we know that heart is the leading cause of death. Yes. Continues to be. We were just talking about that. Globally, particularly in Europe, US,

• 26:15Speaker 04

  we have tons of statins, tons of procedures, tons of stents. We still cannot seem to budget this. And one of the things that's holding us back, when we interviewed cardiologists after cardiologists, and the folks at Cleveland Clinic, and the folks at the leading universities and medical centers, we need better diagnostic tools. How many times have we heard about somebody getting clean bill of health at, you know, their great concierge medicine, three, four months later, heart attack, right? Why didn't we detect it? What happened there? EKG is not sufficient. The tools we have today are not sufficient. Think about EKG. So there's leads on your chest, picking up electricity. Now, where did that come from? So that came from the pacemaker cells in the heart, which is not attached to the chest.

• 27:00Speaker 04

  It's not at the chest wall. So it's a very indirect measure. And what we realized is, we can actually build a box. Here is our lovely subject, Stefan B., our scientist. Notice that his shirt is on, and there's no leads and there's no wires, because we're picking up the magnetic field coming through his bone and tissue. The magnetic field is not dissipated by that bone and tissue. We're getting the real activity directly from the heart. And it turns out that back in the 80s and 90s, an early quantum sensor, notice a squid, a superconducting quantum interference device, a squid, a cryogenic device, something that has to be liquid cooled. You need a Faraday cage, you need a room the size of the stage,

• 27:45Speaker 04

  and you need to protect it and shield it from the Earth's magnetic field. And then you have people come in. And in Cleveland Clinic in Ohio, they have one of these. And it turns out that you can tell a lot about the heart. And that's why Cleveland Clinic still uses it today, a device that was made 20, 30 years ago. But that form factor does not allow us to democratize it, to scale it, to take it out to the world.

• 28:08Speaker 04

  One of the reasons why we're so committed to X Prize and all the X Prizes that take technologies and blow it out to the world is the same reason why we want to take this modality, magnetocardiography, MKG, not just EKG, but MKG, and take it out in a form factor that's room temperature, that's small, that we can take to clinics in rural areas, take to people all around the world, and of course, take to hospitals all across the US, Europe, and other countries. And this allows us to do that. In fact, this is much bigger than we had to make it. We took our initial designs to the hospital, we showed them, they said, "Don't make it that small." We were gonna make it the size of a Rubik's Cube. And they said, "Our doctors will not take it seriously for the size of a Rubik's Cube."

• 28:51Speaker 04

  So, can you put some air around it? So, 80% of that box near Stefan is air. Then they said, "Put it on wheels, because anything that's wheeled around is taken very seriously." If you wheel it around and it's white, it will be taken extremely seriously. And so... And so, this device right now is at UCSF Hospital. Anyone wants to be a test subject, clinical trials open, join us. We're building up the data now. And here's the beautiful thing, Peter. We don't have to prove its medical efficacy. That's already done by Cleveland Clinic, by others, using the previous generation of

• 29:36Speaker 04

  MCG. But now, all we have to show is that this form factor also adheres to that kind of thing. And in fact, already today, the standard of care for fetal cardiac diagnostics is magnetocardiography. You can't get an EKG lead into a womb and say, "How's your heart doing, Mr. and Mrs. Fetus?", right? And so, what you can do, though, is, again, passively listen, just listen to the heart magnetic field coming out. There's nothing emanating from our box, already presented to the FDA, and the FDA said, "We love this." First principle, do no harm of medicine. You can do no harm because nothing's coming out of your box. This is a device that is just listening and waiting for the heart to give it information.

• 30:19Peter Diamandis?

  Is this a spin out from Sandbox, a partner of Sandbox?

• 30:23Speaker 04

  This is, no, this is one of our devices. This is one of our products, yeah.

• 30:26Peter Diamandis?

  Amazing.

• 30:26Speaker 04

  And so, let me now talk about how the AI, and Peter, you and I have talked about this, where does the AI come in to Quantum? Well, this device is so sensitive.

• 30:35Peter Diamandis?

  Again, the name Sandbox, the A is for AI, the Q is for Quantum, right?

• 30:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 30:40Peter Diamandis?

  This is the convergence of these two technologies.

• 30:42Speaker 04

  We had to have both. And one of the reasons why this beautiful technology did not come to light until we got involved is that in the hands of the physics departments, again, brilliant, that they turned this bug into a feature, making sensors. But look at, let me see, I don't think I have a, no, okay. If you just look in the upper left, that's the signal coming out of the Quantum Diamond. It's too much information. If Peter, you're standing just a few meters from the device with your iPhone, you're gonna set that thing off, you're gonna add to the noise of the device. In fact, our first version did not work. Our first version worked great in our lab, we brought it over to the hospital, failed completely. What happened?

• 31:27Speaker 04

  We were about seven meters from the elevators of the hospital. And the elevators go up and down and have electromagnetic portion, which was throwing off our design. Now, we could kind of ML it out, we said, you know what, let's go back to the lab and actually redesign it, we did, we're back in there now and we don't have that interference. But we have to build for noisy environments. We don't want to build for a room that has to be caged in with a Faraday cage, right? We want to democratize it, bring it out. So when you look at the upper left, you're like, where is the heart signal? And so it took us more than two years of additional ML work to bring it from the upper left to the right, what you see there. ML is machine learning, just to make sure.

• 32:10Speaker 04

  Yeah, where we can find the actual heart signal. And so this is a combination of hardware and physics and quantum, making these diamonds more pure, more homogeneous. When I showed you that one area of the nitrogen and the vacancy, we don't, this is not just one of those in there, there's a billion plus in one cubic millimeter. A billion plus of those dopings that we put in, in one cubic millimeter. Amazing. And so this is exquisite technology that I'm really proud of the team having created, but also the ML needed to go from complete noise to finding that heart signal. And so this is what's possible now, Peter, to bring this out and to have this impact.

• 32:54Speaker 04

  Are you able to speak about the navigation application? Yes. So, so just to give a little. It's not top secret, okay. Just to give a little peek, the heart, you asked, how sensitive is this? This is 10 to the minus 12 Tesla. If you've been in an MRI machine, everyone I'm sure here has, you've been in something that's either 1.5 Tesla, 3 Tesla, 7 Tesla, maybe even if you felt you had any kind of metal and was pulling like this to the machine, that's like a 7 to 9 Tesla machine. In research, I used to use these machines, and one time I had small little piece of metal on my shoes and I almost lost my leg like this, uh, to the machine when it was turned on. But, um, that's 1 to 9 Tesla, this is 10 to the minus 12 Tesla.

• 33:39Speaker 04

  It's trillion. So point, and then 11 zeros and a little 1, that's how weak the magnetic field. A trillion Tesla field. Yeah, of the, of the, um, of the heart is. And if we want to do the brain. Then we have to even go even more sensitive and hopefully that's coming soon. So, let's now talk about navigation. Well, what's happening right now in Ukraine? Russia is jamming the signal over Ukraine and it's not just air. The signal of? Of GPS, right? GPS, if you want to go on eBay or other websites, you can buy for $700 something that looks like a walkie-talkie, but like a big walkie-talkie like this. We can jam GPS for the entire area of Terranaya with one little device like this.

• 34:22Speaker 04

  Because again, you know, we know the spectrum of the GPS satellites and we can have, you know, destructive interference, where we're sending out a wave that exactly destroys that particular signal and you'll have no GPS. In fact, Qantas Airlines just issued a warning just two days ago. And they said, "We're getting jamming when we're near the PRC, when we're near China." GPS jamming. Our flights with passengers on them have lost GPS due to jamming. Now, why would China be jamming the GPS signal near the Straits of Taiwan? Any guesses? Okay, I'll leave it at that. But, the point is that Maersk, the large shipping company, reported the same thing, that when their ships are coming into the port of Shanghai,

• 35:06Speaker 04

  going various places, they lose signal for portions of their voyage. This is a major issue because it's so easy to jam. So what are the alternatives? Well, you can do dead reckoning and that's been used for hundreds of years, but we know the drift involved in dead reckoning, right? You can get your astrolabe out, right? If you can see some stars. But what we realize is that we can be like the bird I just showed you before. There's a tern, an Arctic tern, a bird, that travels 24,000 kilometers a year in its migratory pattern from the North Pole to the South Pole. Other birds, of course, we know very well migrating, you know, during different seasons. Whales, using magnetic field of the Earth as well.

• 35:51Speaker 04

  Even turtles. When those turtles are born and they run into the sea, they're actually using magnetic gradient as well. So, nature has figured out that you can use, you can leverage the Earth's magnetic field for direction, for navigation. Birds have figured that out. And maybe some evidence that some humans have a little magnetite left in our brains. Maybe some people can do it, but most of us, most of us cannot. And, and so, um, and so we rely upon GPS. But now, we have given humans that ability by having a diamond sensor, the kind of diamond I just showed you before for the heart, the same diamond, and matching that now, not with machine learning that looks for the heartbeat, but machine learning that looks for the unique fingerprint

• 36:34Speaker 04

  of the earth's magnetic field in every square meter of this earth. And this was a revelation to us as well.

• 36:41Peter Diamandis?

  This blew me away.

• 36:42Speaker 04

  Yeah. When we spoke, Peter, to the geophysicists and we brought them into our team, and we realized that, actually, I know there's a lot of geeks here. Everyone here is a geek, otherwise you wouldn't be here. So I'll just geek out for a second on geophysics. It turns out that, yes, we all learned in school about the liquid core. There's an inner core ball of iron and around that is liquid molten iron, a little bit of nickel in there, and that's sloshing around, creating what's called a geodynamo. And that geodynamo is creating the core field of our earth. But in fact, there's another modification of that magnetic field. As lava comes up and has come up for millions and hundreds of millions of years, and then cools down, the magnetite, the hematite, the ferromagnetic materials in the mantle as it cools down,

• 37:27Speaker 04

  modifies locally that core field. And you now have a fingerprint, a unique signature on that spot on earth.

• 37:36Peter Diamandis?

  So every square meter of the planet

• 37:38Speaker 04

  Has a unique

• 37:39Peter Diamandis?

  Has a unique magnetic signature that you could map and then use for navigation from then on.

• 37:45Speaker 04

  Correct. And so, right here, this square meter, that square meter, every square meter on earth.

• 37:50Peter Diamandis?

  And you could navigate a thousand meters underwater.

• 37:54Speaker 04

  That's correct. So when you're underwater, you can't navigate. One of the reasons why the scientists were asking for our help down in Antarctica is because when they have their underwater drones, the British Antarctic Survey, BAS, as it's called, had two underwater drones at the cost of two million British pounds each. Both of them now are broken. Why are they broken now? Because they did dead reckoning and they couldn't see where they're going. And they bumped into various walls and underwater seawalls, and they're both broken right now. Giving the opportunity to have true absolute navigation, not dead reckoning, not inertial, but absolute navigation underwater. You can't get GPS signal more than a meter underwater. And so when you want to go deep, more than a meter, you've got to have some way of navigating, and this now allows us to do that.

• 38:40Speaker 04

  Remember what we said about magnetic field? We said about bone and tissue. It's also true of the water. We can detect that underwater. So this becomes, Peter, and right now, I'm happy to say that this device that we created is flying as we speak now on a test plane of one of the largest airplane manufacturers on the planet right now. And there's actually a button, that was a very emotional moment for us, was when they sent us a picture from this company, and they added a button on the dashboard of the plane, on the avionics, there's a button called Sandbox AQ. And they flipped that button up, up comes a magnetic navigation. And we're not saying don't use GPS, of course, have GPS. But if it's getting jammed, if you lose that signal, you can lose it for other reasons, not just jamming, you better have some kind of global backup,

• 39:25Speaker 04

  and it better be absolute navigation. And finally, we can empower scientists as well with underwater navigation, and allowing them to do the exploration and data collection that we all need to find out.

• 39:38Peter Diamandis?

  Amazing. Everybody, I want to take a short break from our episode to talk about a company that's very important to me, and could actually save your life or the life of someone that you love. The company's called Fountain Life. And it's a company I started years ago with Tony Robbins and a group of very talented physicians. You know, most of us don't actually know what's going on inside our body. We're all optimists. Until that day when you have a pain in your side, you go to the physician in the emergency room, and they say, "Listen, I'm sorry to tell you this, but you have this stage three or four going on." And, you know, it didn't start that morning. It probably was a problem that's been going on for some time. But because we never look, we don't find out. So what we built at Fountain Life

• 40:23Peter Diamandis?

  was the world's most advanced diagnostic centers. We have four across the US today. And we're building 20 around the world. These centers give you a full body MRI, a brain, a brain vasculature, an AI-enabled coronary CT looking for soft plaque, a DEXA scan, a GRAIL blood cancer test, a full executive blood workup. It's the most advanced workup you'll ever receive. 150 gigabytes of data that then go to our AIs and our physicians to find any disease at the very beginning, when it's solvable. You're going to find out eventually. Might as well find out when you can take action. Fountain Life also has an entire side of therapeutics. We look around the world for the most advanced therapeutics

• 41:07Peter Diamandis?

  that can add 10, 20 healthy years to your life. And we provide them to you at our centers. So if this is of interest to you, please go and check it out. Go to fountainlife.com/peter. When Tony and I wrote our New York Times bestseller, Life Force, we had 30,000 people reached out to us for Fountain Life memberships. If you go to fountainlife.com/peter, we'll put you to the top of the list. Really, it's something that is, for me, one of the most important things I offer my entire family, the CEOs of my companies, my friends. It's a chance to really add decades on to our healthy lifespans.

• 41:51Peter Diamandis?

  Go to fountainlife.com/peter. It's one of the most important things I can offer to you as one of my listeners. All right, let's go back to our episode. And this is probably just, you know, a fraction of the potential applications you haven't thought about yet.

• 42:04Speaker 04

  Yeah, there's so many other applications, but I think just sharing hopefully tonight, the promise of where this is going and the fact that we're doing this right now. This is something that we invite folks who have ideas. If you have an idea for what we can do with quantum sensors, we're open to, you know, brainstorming ideas. That's always been the philosophy at XPRIZE. It's always been our philosophy as well, to partner with folks and think about new ways of helping the planet in this way. So that's, in a nutshell, quantum sensing.

• 42:32Peter Diamandis?

  Where do you want to go next?

• 42:34Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, let's give it up to quantum sensing.

• 42:38Peter Diamandis?

  I just appreciate, again, how these ideas didn't even exist not too long ago. And what this is going to unlock. I remember when Scott Madry at International Space University, one of the early geolocation pioneers, was showing me the idea of geopositioned systems. And little did I could imagine of Uber or Google Maps. All the applications will be born on top of these things that we can't even imagine yet. And this is magic. And ultimate cost of this is...

• 43:23Speaker 04

  That's the idea. To democratize this, we have to make sure that it's very accessible. If it's, once again, a multi-multi-million dollar device like you see in hospitals, we have failed. Yeah, cool technology, but not impact. The standard we hold ourselves to is the impact that we have. And by making these devices room temperature and really small and portable, low-power, by the way. To power one of these devices is a couple of D batteries. Probably even, maybe just four or five AAA batteries. But it's really low-power. We don't even have to use lasers. I showed an example there with lasers because it was easier to visualize. But now, actually, we've converted to LEDs. You know how cheap LEDs are. So a green LED, and then it comes out as red, and we detect that. So that's really, really easy.

• 44:08Speaker 04

  But maybe, Peter, we should now turn for a few moments to quantum security, to cybersecurity. Because I know that's on the minds of a lot of people, protecting our data. And then, just a few moments on that, and maybe then we talk about medicine and how we can really revolutionize drugs. Does that make sense?

• 44:23Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah. So, I mean, we have had this buzz and this conversation year on year about, is quantum computing, quantum encryption or de-encryption going to unlock all of our wallets? Should we be worried about that? And the answer will eventually be yes, but before then, you have some solutions.

• 44:49Speaker 04

  Yeah, this is a serious topic that a lot of really good brains are working on it right now around the world and we're very privileged Peter to be collaborating with incredible centers. I just came from Delft in Amsterdam, near Amsterdam where there's a tremendous center for quantum information. And one underlying theme Peter, I hope to share with everyone here tonight, is that underlying all this stuff, it sounds like, okay, we have quantum computers and quantum sensors and quantum security. What is going on here? Underlying all this is quantum information science, is QIS.

• 45:30Speaker 04

  And if we had a moment, just like The Graduate, the movie, and we want to say one word to the next generation, let's say QIS to the next generation. I know it doesn't roll off the tongue like plastics, but it's something that is fundamental to our world. Our world at a fundamental level is not the Newtonian world that we're used to. It's not the billiard ball world that we're used to. At a fundamental level, it is a quantum world. And quantum ultimately, now that we're the first human generation, the first generation of people who can finally harness not just the world of bits and not just shaping furniture and stuff in the macro world, but harnessing the ability to manipulate the atomic and quantum world. We are that first generation.

• 46:15Speaker 04

  Amazing. And it's no less than landing on the moon. It's no less than any one of those big breakthroughs that were both conceptual, mental breakthroughs, as well as the kind of technology breakthrough. So let's talk about security for a minute. So Peter, as you said correctly, quantum computers can do many, many positive things in the world, but one thing they also do, we know from a 1994 paper from Peter Schorr, brilliant mathematician, who's now at MIT, then was at Bell Labs in New Jersey, and a young researcher there, he's in his cubicle and he's checking out various papers that are brewing in this new field of quantum information. And he realizes in the epiphany

• 46:56Speaker 04

  that this computer, once built, will break the encryption that we all use. And already by that time, in 1994, this encryption, an example of that is RSA. Extra credit, what does RSA stand for? Extra credit, anyone here? Ravest? Shamir?

• 47:18Speaker 04

  Someone help him? A? A, A, A? Adelman, yes, good, excellent. So Ravesh, Shmird and Adelman, three brilliant folks from the 70s and 80s, came up with this incredible public key encryption. The ability for us to share information over this wild west of the internet without having to meet in secret. Before public key encryption, what did we have to do? We had to meet in a bunker. And we had to say, here's our one-time pads. We are spies in East Berlin. And we're going to share, Peter, our one-time pads. On Monday, we will use this key. And you will use the same key Monday. And then Tuesday, we move to the next key. And we call it a pad. We take off, do we tear off the pages of the pad? And we use those. I've seen this movie. Yes. Bridge of Spies.

• 48:02Speaker 04

  And, um, and what we found is obviously that that's not scalable. If you want to build a global economy, such as we just did since the 70s and 80s, that global economy was fueled by a number of things. But one of the key drivers was public key encryption. Can you imagine if Jeff Bezos set up an incredible company, Amazon, in the Seattle area? And we had to all go take flights to Seattle. Every time we wanted to give him a credit card, we had to go there, drive there, take planes there, ride bikes there, and say, Jeff, here's my credit card. We're in secret. I'm now giving you my credit card. I will now go back home and wait for my package. No, that would not be scalable. But instead, because of RSA, because of this encryption, this asymmetric encryption. Why asymmetric, Peter?

• 48:46Speaker 04

  Because my public key, which I published over the internet and Amazon uses, um, and now, in this case, I want to send them a credit card. So I find their public key. I encrypt my credit card with their, with the Amazon public key. Of course, I don't have to consciously do this anymore. The browser does this for us. When you see that little lock, that's what it's doing. And it's sending Amazon. And with their private key, a different key than the public key, it is decrypting that. So the whole basis of RSA is what we call a one-way trapdoor function. A function that's easy to go one-way, but very difficult to go back unless you have the trapdoor, the private key. And that's been the basis of global commerce. Without that, we wouldn't have the incredible economy that we have right now.

• 49:32Speaker 04

  And so, that standard started in 1978, and even right before that with Diffie-Hellman and some precursors to that, but basically late 70s, early 80s, we had that. And here comes Peter Schorr, a researcher, Bell Labs, 1994, writes a paper, puts it out, and first a few mathematicians read it, and then some cryptographers read it, and then some security people read it, then the government reads it, and then others read it, and everyone realizes, oh my god, this whole edifice we have just built, one day will come crashing down. And nobody knew at that time in 94, would it be possible to build these computers? And so, for many years, it went by not really gathering much attention, until, in the last

• 50:15Speaker 04

  number of years, it became very clear that these seven ways of building a quantum computer that we just talked about, were gaining traction. People were announcing new engineering barriers being hurdled again and again, here, there, everywhere, all around the world, and so it became clear, we will build these computers, and encryption will fall. And that means that all of us in this room, everyone on the planet, will have to migrate over, and here's the good news. It's not often, Peter, we can point to a government program and say, "That worked." But, in this case, we can, because six years ago, a number of governments around the world came together and said, "Whoa, boy, we better have a solution for this, because this train is coming at us hard."

• 50:58Speaker 04

  And so, they got together, made an open call, transparent process, and said, "Come all ye who have an idea for a better protocol that would not be killed by quantum computers." That was more or less the statement. And, and sure enough, people came in, and it was 82 different ideas of how to have a protocol for securely transmitting information, just the way we do right now, but to do so, that is not breakable by a quantum computer. We call it quantum safe cryptography, or post-quantum cryptography, PQC, different words, different jargon, but means the same thing. And, in fact... After three rounds of culling on July 5th this past year, about eight, nine months ago, the global governments came together with us in the industry and the academics.

• 51:42Speaker 04

  Everyone said, "Kumbaya, we have found it."

• 51:47Speaker 04

  And so, it actually, the process actually worked. We now have a standard that we'll all be using. That is a different kind of encryption. Instead of the hardness of factoring large numbers, that's what RSA is based on, having very large numbers as the public key. And it's very hard to go back the other way, define the two factors that we use to multiply them together to make this big number. That would take billions of years on today's computers, but only a millisecond on the quantum computer. Instead of that regime, we're moving to something called lattice-based cryptography, a format that is not subject to this kind of quantum attack. And so, and so, we now have the pathway forward. But now, the real work begins. This cannot happen overnight. It's not going to happen overnight. In fact, it's going to take a number of years to happen.

• 52:30Speaker 04

  But now, we have a roadway, a roadmap to make it happen. I just put this slide up, Peter, just to show that when you look at banks, banks have been in the news recently. And among the other things, not just the balance sheets and the number of bonds and the interest rate of the bonds and where the interest rate swaps and many other things, but also the IT infrastructure. Because of the amalgamation of M&A that led to all these large banks. And we can say the same thing about pharma and the M&A in pharma. And we can say the same thing about other industries, telco as an example. Does anyone remember some of the early telco players? Bell Atlantic, anyone? Bell Atlantic, Nextel, 9X, okay, anyone? Okay, so, all these, when they're merged, it looks good on paper. Lawyers get paid, fantastic for them.

• 53:12Speaker 04

  But who actually harmonizes the IT backends? It often never happens. And so, what we find, when we go in there with forensic tools, we find old protocols, protocols that are not just subject to quantum attack, protocols that have been broken and we can break it by an iPhone. MD5, SHA1, these are hashing protocols, protocols used to store your passwords, passwords that we don't want out there. And so, we find this in banks around the world. We find this in governments around the world. We find this in hospitals around the world. These are protocols that have been broken already. And we need to go in there and identify these vulnerabilities and then migrate them over to better standards.

• 53:55Speaker 04

  So, quantum is a great catalyst. This is the positive news. It's a wonderful catalyst for us to finally fulfill this obligation to secure our data. Every time you hear about a breach, you say, "Oh, how did that breach happen? How did 100 million records and credit cards and social security numbers get out there?" It was probably the case that not only was there a firewall issue, but once they got in there, that should have been encrypted. It was not properly encrypted. So, there's been a lot of focus on viruses and malware and ransomware and of course, firewalls, but we now need to pay attention to the nature of how we encrypt the information. Not just how we transmit information back and forth, that's one encryption called data in motion,

• 54:39Speaker 04

  but also how we store information, data at rest. And so, this is an opportunity, that's how we see it, of engaging with our world, engaging with our key data that we own, that is our data, our healthcare data, our banking information, our personal data. And so, this is the moment now to relook at all that in the next three, four years, and we now need to reestablish the foundation so that we can continue to grow this economy. Otherwise, the whole thing comes crashing down, or we can all take trips to Seattle every time we want to buy something from Amazon. So, that in a nutshell, is quantum security.

• 55:15Peter Diamandis?

  Amazing.

• 55:21Peter Diamandis?

  That, in a nutshell, is quantum security explained by a brilliant genius.

• 55:27Speaker 04

  Thanks.

• 55:29Peter Diamandis?

  How far are we from quantum computers breaking today's standard RSA encryption?

• 55:37Speaker 04

  It's a great question, and that's why I want to put up this slide here. So, there's a lot of efforts around the world to build quantum computers, and it's not exactly as if the business plans of these companies is, "Hey, venture capitalist Peter, I have a quantum computing idea. We're going to build a quantum computer, and the reason we're going to build it is to break the world's cryptography." That's not necessarily the business plans that you see being pitched. But, the fact is that no matter why you're building your quantum computer, once it gets to a certain scale, we will start seeing encryption fall. And, they're also state-sponsored.

• 56:12Speaker 04

  Efforts, maybe adversarial, that are building quantum computers, and they're open about it, and they have thousands and thousands of engineers and scientists on this, and this is open information now, on the internet. And we look at that information and realize that there is no way to control it anymore. The genie is out of the bottle. This will be built, because the prize, the brass ring, is simply too big, too valuable. The ability to have a computer that cracks everyone's encryption is simply too valuable. It will happen. There is no regulation. There is no way to stop it at this point. And one of the reasons why we're urgent around this now is this slide here, SNDL, Store Now, Decrypt Later. Because if I know, Peter,

• 56:56Speaker 04

  that one day I will have such a computer, and I want to know the secrets of that company, of that government, of that individual, I don't wait until then. What I do is, I siphon off. I don't even have to break into your network. I just say, "I know Peter lives in the LA area, and I know that he's probably on this ISP, and so I'll just go to a hop over here. I'll tap in, and I'll just start siphoning information. And somewhere in there is Peter's communications. And I'll just make a copy. Just make a copy, make a copy. I can't read it today, because you're using RSA or a similar encryption, but I'll just store it now. I'll store it now. And then in a number of years, I'll have such a computer, and I'll decrypt it later.

• 57:40Speaker 04

  And then when I decrypt it, I say, "Oh, Peter, FYI, you owe me $5 million in ransomware, because I have your data. Otherwise, I'm gonna release it. Oh, you're a pharma company. Ah, yes, I have all your molecular formulas that you've been transmitting to your factories. I have everything. I know you transmitted them securely at that time, but retroactively now, and there's probably a Hollywood script in here somewhere, that retroactively... None of it was secure at all. So, so this is the concern we have now. This is the concern that governments have. This is why you hear various governments, including our own in the United States, issue directive after directive. In fact, Congress passed a law on December 9th this past year.

• 58:22Speaker 04

  And amazingly, the Senate passed it unanimously. Does that happen every often? No, it doesn't. Unanimously, 100 YIs said, "We approve this law that requires our federal government to move to the new standards because of the concern about SNDL." That law is now signed, it's now the law of the land, and now the federal government is on the move to make this happen. So, the good news is that we have a response, we have a roadmap, but this is the concern. The concern, Peter, is that over the next number of years, these quantum computers will get bigger and bigger and more powerful. And it's not just little companies making them. There are state-sponsored adversaries who have intense, moonshot Manhattan projects

• 59:06Peter Diamandis?

  Yes.

• 59:07Speaker 04

  that are making these quantum computers. And did we announce that we had Broken Enigma back in World War II? Did we announce that to the world? I don't think we did. So, we may not know when somebody has this computer.

• 59:20Peter Diamandis?

  But it's too late. The companies have sent this all and they are so... But we now have quantum encryption.

• 59:28Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 59:28Peter Diamandis?

  That's safe.

• 59:29Speaker 04

  Quantum-safe encryption. That's right. And here's the good news, Peter, that we don't need a quantum computer in our hands to be safe against quantum computers. We can do this encryption using your current cell phones, using the current servers. Don't throw out your machines.

• 59:43Peter Diamandis?

  But what's the date before which all of that's...

• 59:49Speaker 04

  We, we, we know that, that adversaries probably started siphoning data in, in great levels, probably around three years ago. Probably around three, four years ago, they started to siphon data. But every day that goes by is another day. And of course, you know that the world's in, you've talked about this, that the, the growth of how much data we produce in medicine and other key areas, you know? And so, this is the moment to start, to start changing now because of SNDL. Yeah.

• 1:00:14Peter Diamandis?

  And have the major telecom companies started doing that?

• 1:00:17Speaker 04

  They're starting, right. So, if you have a VPN, if anyone here is using VPN, that P in VPN, the private, virtual private network, that P is currently secured. by RSA or similar protocols. So we have to upgrade the VPNs. We have to upgrade telco. All this ecosystem has to be upgraded. It's a huge amount of work. And this is the work that has to be done collectively. There's no one company or individual who can make this happen. This is a ecosystem that has got to come together. And the good news, I think, Peter, is that this is a moment to relook at all this encryption and say, let's batten down the hatches and let's make sure we have deep security and privacy.

• 1:00:58Speaker 04

  Privacy is absolutely critical and to have privacy, you need encryption. So this is a moment, I think, for us to strengthen the entire infrastructure and take care of years of stuff we should have done because of all this M and A that went on.

• 1:01:13Peter Diamandis?

  Tomorrow morning is our dive into longevity. We have eight phenomenal longevity conversations. And one of the things that we've been talking about is this decade is different than past decades in terms of our ability to begin to understand at a molecular cellular level why we age and how to manipulate that. Super pumped about this. We heard a presentation earlier from Alex Zevrankov, the CEO of Insilico Medicine and the work that he's doing in global drug discovery using generative adversarial networks. Talk about this because this is something that you're super passionate about and I am too.

• 1:01:58Speaker 04

  So I think everyone here is familiar with the stats on this slide. And one stat that people may not be familiar with is not only is there a two-thirds rate of failure in clinical trial. I think most people know that. What people may not know is that 40%

• 1:02:19Speaker 04

  Fail in Phase 3. Now, Phase 3, Peter. We did Phase 1, and that was our safety phase, right? Yup. We did Phase 2, and we showed some efficacy. Otherwise, we wouldn't get permission to go to a pivotal or to go to Phase 3. And now, we're in Phase 3. It's the cherry on top. It's confirmatory. We're just here to say, "Yes." It works now in more than just 50 or 100 people. We're now at a few thousand people or more. We just want to make sure, "Yeah." But we have a lot of good news coming into Phase 3. Otherwise, are we going to spend the $400, $500 million on a Phase 3? No, we would not. And yet, we do. And so, if somehow I said to you, "Hey, Peter and I have a new company."

• 1:03:02Speaker 04

  Peter makes a company every week, and I make a company once in a while. But, um, let's say we had a new company. We had a new company that's a construction company, and the audience comes to us, Peter, and says, "Build us a new hotel. Build us a new building." We have a construction company. But we say, "Hey, audience, sorry. When Peter and I build this hotel for you, there's a 2/3 chance it will fall down in the first 30 days." That would not be a very promising startup that we have. But in fact, this is what we accept in the biopharma industry. This is what we live with. And I started my life helping to run clinical trials at NIH, and this is what we lived with then, and this is what we have now.

• 1:03:44Speaker 04

  We have not materially improved the situation in decade after decade after decade. We have a lot of new tools. We've talked about this, talked about that tool, this tool. But in point of fact, net-net, any guesses, on average, per year, how many new drugs are approved by the FDA? Any guesses? I'll start the bidding at 10 new drugs. 38? 50? 100?

• 1:04:16Speaker 04

  Ten thousand? No, ten. So, this is a very savvy audience, yes. About forty-eight, forty-nine, about fifty drugs. And of those, more than half are me-too drugs. More than half are, "Hey, Peter, we're on the board of a great drug company. I think we need a new statin on the market." Yeah, there's only seventeen of them. And so, "I think you and I should make a new statin. We should modify one of the current statins, patent it. We should make a new statin, shouldn't we? A billion dollars a year revenue, why not? And so, why don't we see the breakthroughs? Why don't we see it? What's happening? Why don't we see more effort go into pancreatic cancer, into very difficult cancers? It's very risky.

• 1:05:00Speaker 04

  It's very, very risky. How do we change the game here? In Silico Medicine, is one of the companies changing the game? We need a set of tools that completely transform the way we think about going from molecule to medicine. This is not working right now, be it for small molecule, or for biologic, for proteins, or small molecules. It is not working. And so, how do we change this game? And people have heard about digital twins. And so, what we realized is, we needed to put together a team, Peter, that had the expertise, had the knowledge of how things are done now, but also had the knowledge of AI and quantum. Had the knowledge to say, "We now need to take an AI and quantum approach, a physics-based approach that is driven by AI initially.

• 1:05:45Speaker 04

  But the last mile must be quantum. Why? Because when one molecule meets another molecule, here's an example I have right here. And so, here in this case, KEYTRUDA is a synthetic antibody that you see right in the middle of the diagram here. It's an antibody not made by the body, but an antibody made synthetically to plug up that receptor. That PD-1 receptor that you see right there. We want to plug that hole. We do not want the tumor to insert the ligand into that receptor. Because if, if that tumor inserts that ligand into that receptor like a lock and key, what does it do to that T-cell? What does it do? What can tumors do to T-cells? T-cells are there for the fight. They've come to the fight.

• 1:06:30Speaker 04

  They're here to do what our immune systems want to do, to destroy pathogens. And in this case, it's a different kind of pathogen, right? It's not a bacterium, it's not a virus. This is something that was a human cell.

• 1:06:42Speaker 04

  And so it has a locking key to turn off the T cell, to put it into sleep mode for enough time for the tumor to grow out of control. And that helps us understand why the conundrum of why our immune system has not been more powerful in helping us take care of cancer. We know it's doing a pretty good job. We know the stats that when people are taking immune suppressive drugs, Peter, as you well know, as a physician, for having, say, a transplant of an organ, in the two years following that period, in that period where they need to take immunosuppressive drugs, their rate of cancer goes way up. So we know that when the immune system is there, it is pretty active. It is helpful. But in all too many cases, the cancer is able to run away and to evade. And this is one of the methods it uses.

• 1:07:27Speaker 04

  That blue and that red spike allow it to go into that receptor and turn off the T cells that came to the fight. And so KEYTRUDA from Merck and other drugs like this do a great job of plugging out that hole and saying, no, we won't let that happen. But unfortunately, this drug does not work for everyone and not for every cancer. So we need to experiment and make new drugs that work for more people, more cohorts of folks. For melanoma, where this was first approved, it works for about 32% of the melanoma patients. It helps them. But in about two thirds of cases, the cancer, after a while of remission, progresses. And so when molecules meet molecules, what language do they speak? They speak quantum.

• 1:08:11Speaker 04

  And so while AI-based, AI-driven drug discovery has been very helpful to us, and in terms of taking a landscape, Peter, of 600 million, say, potential compounds, and narrowing it down to, say, a few thousand. Now that we have a few thousand, we must ask the next question. When that, not just molecule, but now let's drill down further. When we have the atom on the edge of the molecule, and on the edge of that atom, we have an electron, and that electron meets another electron.

• 1:08:40Speaker 04

  Does it bind together? Do they meet, do they bind, and with what binding affinity? And with what characteristics? And what's the confirmation and what's the shape and so on and so forth? All these are quantum characteristics. And now, we're the first again generation right here in this room and around the planet that can now understand this quantum language. Now, you might say, how about the quantum computers? I thought we needed a quantum computer to make this happen. And what we realized and others realized around both academic and industry circles is that the GPUs were getting so good. The same GPUs that have led to ChatGPT 3, and then 4, and soon to come 6 and 7.

• 1:09:23Speaker 04

  Those same GPUs that initially started as what? What's the G in GPU?

• 1:09:27Peter Diamandis?

  Graphical.

• 1:09:28Speaker 04

  Graphics. They started for better video games. So every time a teenager is playing video games, thank that teenager. Because that teenager is saving our butts. That teenager is responsible for the rise of the GPU, which initially was not made for AI, was not made for quantum simulation, but once we in the AI community realized that the matrix algebra, matrices times matrices, matrix times a vector, this matrix algebra that was inherent in how we can have better video game rendering, we can hijack that for representing neural networks. Neural networks can be represented as an image coming in as a vector, and we can multiply by the matrix of weights in our neural network and our multi-layered network.

• 1:10:10Speaker 04

  That is the same mathematics in the firmware of an Nvidia chip, of an Intel chip, of a Tesla D1 chip, a great GPU that Tesla uses, Amazon has one, Alphabet has one, many companies. And what we saw five, six years ago is that the GPU wars were growing so rapidly that we would get a GPU that not only was great for graphics for video games, and not only was great for AI, leading to the GPT revolution we see now, but what we surmise five years ago within our team. Was that by 2021, 2022, we would have GPUs capable of doing a quantum simulation.

• 1:10:50Peter Diamandis?

  Amazing.

• 1:10:50Speaker 04

  Of simulating this interaction. And sure enough, we published various papers just two years ago, and the first time in the world's record for doing that quantum chemical simulation, showing hundreds of thousands of electrons, meeting hundreds of thousands of other electrons in like a speed dating, and allowing them to, allowing us to understand what that interaction would be. So this Peter, is what is now possible. And this is already impacting the folks, the biofarmers we're working with in terms of neurodegen diseases. That's the first one we're tackling right now, Alzheimer's and Parkinson's. We've had 35 years of failure

• 1:11:30Speaker 04

  in neurodegen. 35 years. And we need these kind of breakthroughs. We all know in this room, how much we need these breakthroughs. But we're not going to get it unless we bring all the tools to the table. And now the combination of both AI and quantum, finally coming together to say, let's down select from the large numbers that we have out there, and use generative AI as well to offer up new ideas, but then test them through the funnel of quantum interaction to say, let's de-risk this molecule, Peter, before we go to animal, before we go to human. Let's walk into the clinical trial with a much better chance than two thirds failure.

• 1:12:13Peter Diamandis?

  Everybody, I want to take a quick break from our episode, tell you about a health product that I love and that I use every day. In fact, I use it twice a day. It's called Seed Health. Now, your microbiome and gut health are one of the most important and modifiable parts of your health plan. Your gut microbiome is connected to your brain health, your cardiac health, your metabolic health. So the question is, what are you doing to optimize your gut? Let me take a second to tell you what I'm doing. Every day, I take two capsules of Seed's Daily Synbiotic. It's a two-in-one probiotic and prebiotic formulation that supports digestive health, gut health, skin health, heart health, and more. It contains 24 clinically studied and scientifically backed probiotic strains are delivered in a patented capsule

• 1:12:58Peter Diamandis?

  that actually protects it from the stomach acid and ensures that all of it reaches your colon alive with 100% survivability. Now, if you want to try Seeds Daily Synbiotic for yourself, you can get a 25% off your first month's supply by using the code MOONSHOTS at checkout. Just go to seed.com/monshots and enter the code MOONSHOTS at checkout. That's seeds.com/monshots and use the code MOONSHOTS to get 25% off your first month of Seeds Daily Synbiotic. Trust me, your gut will thank you. All right, let's get back to our episode. So what do you think in terms of price reduction and speed increase?

• 1:13:40Speaker 04

  Well, great question. I think if we, let me go back here. If we look at these super depressing numbers, the average right now is $2 billion to get molecule to medicine. The average is 13 years to get molecule to medicine. And so, we need to bring this down to, you know, under $1 billion. Certainly, we're hoping for $400-500 million instead of $2 billion. So, a 70-plus percent cut in costs. We're hoping for a dramatic decrease in the number of years. The majority of those 13 years are not the clinical trials. The FDA and other regulatory bodies have actually done a pretty good job in the last number of years, recognizing the cries of the families, the cries of the patients, the

• 1:14:22Speaker 04

  cries of the clinicians. They've said, "We're going to accelerate. If you have a breakthrough that we can accelerate, let's do that. If we can go with a pivotal phase two and not even go to a phase three, let's do that." And look what happened also in terms of even during the vaccine era, a fast acceleration of approval as well. So, what we see is that we've actually compressed the time of clinical trial from seven, eight years, we can now get that done in about three to four years, in some cases, if it has an orphan disease or various other kinds of breakthrough status. So that's not the issue anymore. We still need those human trials. It's the eight, nine, 10 years of pre-trial work, pre-clinical work that we need to really compress down. So, that's where we need to impact right now.

• 1:15:06Speaker 04

  That's where we need partners. That's where we need collaboration to make this happen. And this is-

• 1:15:12Peter Diamandis?

  Take me a decade forward here of the potential.

• 1:15:15Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:15:17Peter Diamandis?

  In terms of understanding, I mean, the complexity of the immune system, the complexity of even the intracellular mechanisms and intracellular mechanisms, communications, is massive. We understand a fraction. Is this going to give us, I mean, we are quantum systems on a

• 1:15:37Speaker 04

  On the fundamental level, yes.

• 1:15:40Peter Diamandis?

  Is, how much will we unlock as we begin to dive through with these tools? Is this where you expect to see the majority of the breakthroughs a decade out from now?

• 1:15:53Speaker 04

  I think it's, the human body continues to surprise us, the cellular pathways continue to surprise us. If you've ever seen a complex subway chart of the metro in Paris or New York City, imagine that times 10 if you want to look at cellular pathways and

• 1:16:10Peter Diamandis?

  Times 100, right?

• 1:16:11Speaker 04

  Yeah. So, you know, all these different cellular pathways. So we keep getting surprised. Every time we think, oh yeah, we've got that down, nailed down, something else pops up. In neuroscience in particular, we're still at a very early phase of understanding. We know so little in terms of neuroscience. We keep getting shocked by new discoveries. Basically, the rule I have is that if I go back to my neuroscience textbooks, I was, I had the privilege of being taught by Eric Candel, who later won the Nobel Prize because of the work I did. No, no joking. Nothing to do with me at all. Eric Candel was an incredible mentor for me and also his bow ties are incredible too. And

• 1:16:54Peter Diamandis?

  The trademark of all neurologists.

• 1:16:56Speaker 04

  Yeah. I go back to that textbook and, you know, it gets thicker and thicker as the additions go. But every time you go back to a textbook and read a word, read a phrase, Peter, that says Never, this never happens, this always happens. That's when you know a breakthrough will happen. Because when we learned in our early textbooks that the brain never creates new neurons after a certain age, well, guess what? That fell down, right? As a never. And so, we keep getting shocked and surprised. So, what I would say is, let's take a humility approach, a humble approach to the body and to the biology. And let's say that, let's go step by step in understanding the systems. And the body is an incredible system.

• 1:17:39Speaker 04

  We know the tremendous healing power that the body has when you let it use its systems. And that's why immunotherapy, what I was showing before with K Truda, that is not chemotherapy. It's not there to, in a toxic matter, break down and kill off so many cells. But it's there to help your T-cell keep fighting, right? In a natural way. That is the kind of therapies I hope we can bring out. But we need a deeper understanding. When we get to the quantum level of understanding, this interaction of molecule to molecule, we're just again at the precipice. As Newton said, I'm just at the tip of the ocean.

• 1:18:18Speaker 04

  As the waves just come in, I've had the opportunity to play with a few pebbles and rocks on this wonderful beach. And this is how we feel right now.

• 1:18:29Peter Diamandis?

  Amazing.

• 1:18:29Speaker 04

  We're just at the beginning of this ballgame.

• 1:18:31Peter Diamandis?

  I'd love to go to some of your questions. Please, head on up. Okay, Steve, you're fast, my friend. Steve Brown, what do you got for Jack here?

• 1:18:41Speaker 06

  So you talked a lot about the physical layer of quantum technologies. And that's where it feels like all the action is right now. And I'm curious, in what ways should we be starting to reimagine the software models based on quantum information theory?

• 1:18:57Speaker 06

  For example, an undecided voter is like in a superposition of two states, probably entangled with other people, probably in a contextual field nudging one way or another. It sounds a lot like the same kind of mathematics that you're using for quantum information science. And I'm curious, when we start to reimagine the software side of this based on quantum information theory, and you marry that with the quantum technologies, like what do you see in that combination? And what should we be reimagining on the other side of this?

• 1:19:29Speaker 04

  Thank you, Steve. Great, profound question. So Claude Shannon, famous for information theory, also at Bell Labs, years before Peter Schorr, of course. And his papers founded the field of information theory, the field that we needed to establish computer science, information science. And then, a number of years later, others came after him and quantized that information theory. And Claude Shannon, as you remember, was working for a telco, working for Bell Labs. And his task, given to him by his manager, was, "Help us understand the communication of information over a noisy channel."

• 1:20:12Speaker 04

  And so he did that, and he did that brilliantly. But now we understand that information is much more fundamental. One of the best processes of information is not on this earth right now. It's not a GPU, it's not a TPU, it's not an IPU, it's not a quantum processor. Well, it is a quantum processor, but not the ones we're making here. It's a black hole. A black hole, well, we understand a black hole in physics now. We see it as the most efficient processor of information that we have in our universe. And so we've now reimagined black hole physics in this informational sense. So I just wanna relate that because that's how profound Steve's question is. This is a deep, deep question that goes to the heart

• 1:20:56Speaker 04

  of our new understanding of our physical universe. That at the fundamental layer, we have an informational-driven layer that drives and helps us understand the context of everything from a black hole to a quantum computer on this planet to our own biology. And so, coming back now to your question. Yes, a lot of companies are focused on the physics of building these quantum computers. I alluded to the fact that we chose not to do that. And one of the reasons is because of your question. That while those folks are doing God's work to build these quantum computers, and we're encouraging them to do that, others of us, including ourselves, need to start focusing on the information layer, the software layer. And one of the things I love about the GPT revolution

• 1:21:41Speaker 04

  is that finally, we can start getting really good code in a more scalable way without artisanal coding. I call today's coding artisanal because, Peter, in five or six years, when I say to you, "Hey, next Saturday I'll be doing some coding", what you'll know is that I'm doing that in the same way if I told you today I'm riding a horse. I'm not riding a horse because I need to get somewhere. I'm riding a horse in a nostalgic artisanal way. And so, coding will become that way as well. And this is the opportunity now where we need to create meshed code, hybrid code. Code that is, you know, a series of lines of information. And part of that code runs on a GPU, part of it runs on a CPU,

• 1:22:23Speaker 04

  and part of it runs on a QPU, on a quantum processing unit. And this code should be smart code. I don't wanna have to put in brackets, "Hello, computer, please run this next code on the quantum computer." It needs to know that. So we can think of a quantum computer now in a new way as a subroutine to our main code. Because quantum computers are not good at everything. Please don't run an Excel spreadsheet on a quantum computer. Please don't. You'll not have a speedup, you'll have a slowdown. And so, but there's certain things that quantum computers do extremely well. And they leverage the physics of these quantum systems to do that. These are not transistors, they're not just representing ones and zeros. They're doing something physically.

• 1:23:06Speaker 04

  And one of the exciting things now about quantum computers is we're starting to use them in education. And we haven't talked about education yet, which I'd like to get to at some point after some questions. But now in our physics courses, when we teach students, we don't just say, "Oh, something could be in a superposition," one of the concepts, Steve, that you mentioned, "it could be in some combination of state zero and one." We ask the students to take this code that we give them, or they write themselves, and run it, and make a real superposition on this planet, right now, in a, say, five or 10 qubit machine. That's real. That's not modeling it. That is a real physical system in a state of real superposition. Before us, students can never do that. We never had the ability before this generation to actually have students do that.

• 1:23:49Speaker 04

  So, back to you now, your fundamental question. Even as we build the physical devices, we are giving more and more thought to how do we program these devices? How do we mesh these devices into the larger context? Because a quantum computer has no hard drive. It has no screen. It has no keyboard. It has no compiler. It has no memory. It has nothing, except the ability to do these incredible things, and then return back an information, a piece of classic information, back to you, the GPU. And so, that kind of architecture needs new kind of software architects. And so, I'm sure it was said here in the AI panel yesterday, that it's not so much that AI might replace all of us, it's that we need to now adapt and use these AI tools so that we are not replaced by others who know how to use these AI tools.

• 1:24:34Speaker 04

  And the same thing now could be said in quantum. We need to make sure that students today, that we ourselves, up-leveling, up-skilling ourselves, none of us in this room have to know how to code. We need to know what the computer is capable of, and how to architect a quantum system into the system that we are designing.

• 1:24:53Speaker 04

  Thank you Steve for that question.

• 1:24:54Peter Diamandis?

  Amazing. Kurt, let's go to you next.

• 1:24:57Speaker 07

  Thank you. My name is Kurt Maxman, hailing from Australia. I've got a question about your sensor. And I don't know if many people know, but to get to net zero 2040, 2050, we need four times more metals than we mine and recycle today. And six times more by 2050, like, you know, 16 times more metals to build an offshore wind farm than a gas-fired power plant for the same scale. And one of the challenges-

• 1:25:20Speaker 04

  Metals for batteries, things like that you're talking about.

• 1:25:22Speaker 07

  Batteries, steel, like, it's something that even if you build a new material, you need millions of tons of this material to build those things. And to find these resources is very hard. So about 20 years ago, Falcon magnetrometer flops. Very hard to find it. So is your sensor capable, because given the sensitivity, to detect more and find more of these resources? So we pick better places to mine is the question.

• 1:25:47Speaker 04

  Yes. Well, great question. And I'll always even broaden that question beyond just sensing for mining, but also sensing in general for, on a geophysical scale. So imagine you wanted to know underneath the earth what the densities of the materials are underneath the place on earth that you're hovering over. Maybe you have something called a balloon that you're hovering over a piece of land. And you want to know, is there a different density that might house a certain thing called a missile underneath that thing? If you wanted to do that. Or you might be looking for mining for metals.

• 1:26:27Speaker 04

  In your case. And so if you wanted to do these things, you can then use this kind of quantum sensor. And it would be advantageous to use that quantum sensor at different altitudes. And so that's one reason why we think about these different platforms of passing sensors over different parts of the earth. And also, of course, underwater, you'd want to know what the composition was of the mantle underneath, right? The crust underneath that sea, that ocean, to understand what's there as well. And so these sensors do give you not just, you know, through the magnetometry and then through adaptations, bringing it to grav imagery, you can actually detect what the density of the materials are in different spots.

• 1:27:12Speaker 04

  Just like we talked about how every spot on earth has a different magnetic fingerprint. Every spot on earth has a different density fingerprint as well. And so this is absolutely possible. More work needs to be engineered in terms of the hardness or the capabilities that you might want to put around it. But certainly, what you'd want to do is adapt the same sensors we talked about here, adapt the GPU chip that goes onboard, and then just train the machine learning models. Instead of looking for the heartbeat, like we talked about, instead of looking for navigation signals, you're now looking for a different signal. And that's the beauty of machine learning, that we can adapt to that new context. And so absolutely, already, there's been a number of papers going around in terms

• 1:27:54Speaker 04

  of detection of what's going on underneath the earth, again, for various reasons, not just mining, though. Thank you.

• 1:28:01Peter Diamandis?

  Amazing. Jared, what's good to you?

• 1:28:04Speaker 08

  Hi, thank you so much for all you do, both of you. So I have five-year-old twins with spinal muscular atrophy, which is kind of like ALS in children. And though there have been some amazing breakthrough drugs just recently, in the last few years, anyone like my children who did not get that treatment really early on, like in the first few weeks of life, a lot of neuron damage has occurred. And there's a huge need therein in all neurodegenerative diseases for neuron regeneration in drugs or methods that would do that. I have a healthcare doctorate, but I'm not a research scientist, I don't have a lab, or, you know, I'm not an AI expert.

• 1:28:46Speaker 08

  And I've made some really exciting connections here, and have some ideas about how I'll move forward. But I wanted to ask you, what would you do if you were in my shoes? How would you move forward to help your children and others like them for neuron regeneration?

• 1:28:59Speaker 04

  You want to start?

• 1:29:01Peter Diamandis?

  You know, we're going to have a few presentations tomorrow morning. It's really, we have two presentations tomorrow. One on a company that's basically in the regenerative medicine side of the equation from a stem cell exudate basis of how do you actually get these going. Another one, which is based on technology out of Tufts that is regenerating limbs.

• 1:29:35Peter Diamandis?

  And I think the question becomes, does the body have the ability to regenerate complex systems? Because you're not just regenerating the muscle, but it's the nerves and the connections there. Is the information for that early embryogenesis still there? And can it be reactivated? So, there's a company called Morphaceuticals, and Michael Hufford, the CEO, acting CEO, will be here to speak to that. I don't know if Michael's in the room tonight, by any chance. I would start with him, and we'll have those conversations more tomorrow. Do you have anything you want to add there?

• 1:30:16Speaker 04

  I just want to add that, again, I would have a lot of hope. This is a difficult pathway. In the foundation we set up, we help a lot of different families with very difficult chronic illnesses, and so we've seen a lot over the years. I would say where we are in neuroscience, to Peter's point, is that, you know, when we think about the ability for neurogenesis, the ability to go back to the state that we were when we were creating lots of neurons, and neurons were following a gradient and finding their place within the wiring, both in the brain and then the rest of the nervous system, there's a delicate balance, because obviously, we don't want to revert everything back and then go into an explosive fetal growth phase. But, we're getting better at understanding

• 1:31:01Speaker 04

  this balance. We're not there yet, right? Those tools are not there today. Our hope is that by modeling this with better tools, we can create this digital twin that allows us to understand those processes. So, what I would say is that, it's about collaboration. Where I've seen this work, it's collaboration, it's patient advocacy, it's associations, it's getting the dollars, but not just the dollars. Lots of dollars have gone to lots of things that have not borne fruit. It's connecting with a community like this, and I've always been very positively encouraged. Every time that Peter holds a visioneering, every time he holds a gathering like this, I come away super pumped up, because this is a crowd, this is a group that says yes, when everyone says no.

• 1:31:46Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, I do, I think, I think having, that point is really important. Having the entrepreneur's mindset of saying, "I refuse to just let it be."

• 1:31:58Peter Diamandis?

  And to take it on, right? We've had Martine Rothblatt speak here before, who, you know, her daughter was dying from a lethal disease and she started with a high school textbook and found a medicine to treat her, daughter Genesis, and then said, well, this medicine's going to keep her alive. Now I have to go and actually learn how to regrow lungs because the only cure is a lung transplant. And she's been building her company and building basically a, an abundant supply of organs. Hans, are you in the room, Hans Christine?

• 1:32:42Peter Diamandis?

  Here's Kirsten. Hans is the CEO of Immunus and he'll be speaking tomorrow morning as well. We've connected. What's that? We've connected. You have connected, okay. Fantastic. Yeah. The tools to understand and begin to take our lives and our health in our own hands are finally coming of age at an atomic and molecular genomic level. And so the only time it becomes impossible is when you give up. Right? Thank you. Thank you for your question. Hey, everybody. This is Peter. A quick break from the episode. I'm a firm believer that science and technology and how entrepreneurs can change the world

• 1:33:26Peter Diamandis?

  is the only real news out there worth consuming. I don't watch the crisis news network. I call CNN or Fox and hear every devastating piece of news on the planet. I spend my time training my neural net, the way I see the world, by looking at the incredible breakthroughs in science and technology, how entrepreneurs are solving the world's grand challenges, what the breakthroughs are in longevity, how exponential technologies are transforming our world. So twice a week, I put out a blog. One blog is looking at the future of longevity, age reversal, biotech, increasing your health span. The other blog looks at exponential technologies, AI, 3D printing, synthetic biology, AR, VR,

• 1:34:11Peter Diamandis?

  blockchain. These technologies are transforming what you as an entrepreneur can do. If this is the kind of news you want to learn about and shape your neural nets with, go to diamandis.com backslash blog and learn more. Now, back to the episode. All right. First of all.

• 1:34:28Speaker 09

  Yeah, thank you so much for a beautiful evening and the energy is amazing. So, thank you for that. I just wanted to come back to what you were presenting with, you know, immunology and the checkpoint inhibitors. And you were talking about reducing the time to develop those things, which I think are important, no question about it. But to my knowledge also, you know, a number of them have been developed and each time the cancer cells found a way around it, right? So it's not just a question of blocking PDL2, PDL1 with gettruda, it's, you know, iterative. And that takes, you know, even if you reduce the time for development, it's going to take

• 1:35:11Speaker 09

  decades before we, you know, outsmart the tumor. So my question to you, and I think, you know, Peter hinted to that, is can we use the tools of, you know, you have developed today, the superpower tools to perhaps not understand fully the biology of the tumor itself, the cellular tumor, because it's so complex, but at least get a hint of what's going to be the next thing to hit the, you know, the immune system in this case, you know, with another type of checkpoint inhibitors or what have you. Or maybe even start thinking about different mechanism of action rather than try to counter, you know, the, this molecule, try to, I know that there's some technologies are being developed

• 1:35:55Speaker 09

  around that, but, you know, uncovering more and more of the mechanisms where you can attack, you know, the production of PDL2 and PDL1 inside the tumor itself through a new mechanism. And so using this amazing power of computing power to really understand better the tumor at the molecular level, so not to understand everything, but the key element that allowed it to escape and allowed it to survive synthetic killing, you know, synthetic lethal, as you know, oftentimes if you hit two different pathways, the tumor cannot handle that.

• 1:36:29Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:36:30Speaker 09

  Can we use those tools to really uncover that faster, that allow us to develop tools that are a bit more effective?

• 1:36:36Speaker 04

  So, thank you, Francois. So just to hit one key point on that right away, because you're absolutely correct. Part of what we know about cancer as we delve more and more into it as a society is that we also have to look at the context of the cancer.

• 1:36:48Peter Diamandis?

  Correct.

• 1:36:48Speaker 04

  So an example is not only the micro tumor environment, but also, for example, the microbiome. And Avine is here with Viome and other people here are involved in the microbiome. Microbiome now, there's several papers that have come out over the last five years indicating that that's one of the modulators of the response of a human to checkpoint inhibitor immunotherapy. That the reason why we have a third of people doing really well in melanoma on checkpoint inhibitors and then two thirds not doing so well in terms of dural response after a year is partly one reason, again, it's never one silver bullet, but one reason could be the microbiome. And so it's very important for us to delve into that. Microbiome has not traditionally been part, right, of standard of care.

• 1:37:32Peter Diamandis?

  Right.

• 1:37:32Speaker 04

  And so as it becomes more mainstream, more and more places now will incorporate that into an integrative way of understanding cancer. That becomes another tool on the tool chest. So what we find with cancer, and the reason why it's so elusive is, we love to say that it's just one mechanism and just looking at this one narrow thing and that's the way to get your PhD and your postdoc and so on and so forth. But unfortunately, that's not what cancer cares about. They don't care about your PhD. What cancer wants to do is, it wants to survive. It's its own organism. It now wants to move and survive and so it will do anything to do that. And so looking at that larger context, that's where we've had now some more luck in looking at that larger context. So I agree with your premise and that's why these tools that can model much more high

• 1:38:17Speaker 04

  dimensional kind of systems are so critical. I want to make sure we get to more people though.

• 1:38:22Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, thank you very much, Francois. I would like to, we have five questions standing. I'd like to do them quickly so we can wrap and let people.

• 1:38:30Speaker 04

  I want to end on education though, I want to make sure we get to education.

• 1:38:33Peter Diamandis?

  Okay, we'll do that. Mike?

• 1:38:35Speaker 04

  Yes, does your diamond sensor sense the direction as well as the magnitude of the magnetic fields? Great question. Yeah, so it is a vectorized sensor. It's a great question, and we didn't have time to go into it today, but in the heart, for example, why would you want to know direction and not just the picture? Well, blood flow, for example, obviously, you'd want to see the direction of that blood flow to start looking at the health of not just the overall heart picture, but the valves and looking at is the is the blood pumping in this way and the different chambers of the heart. All that is because it has a vectorized, it's a vectorized sensor, not just the magnitude. So you're absolutely hitting on a key point. Again, with EKG and other kinds of sensors, we don't have that kind of vectorization,

• 1:39:19Speaker 04

  so we can't see it. And so that's part of why Cleveland Clinic and all these places are excited about and have been using this technology a long time, but now it's time to take vectorized cardiac, you know, diagnostics out to the masses. Great point. Thank you.

• 1:39:35Speaker 10

  Annie? Thanks so much. I wish that I had a teacher like you when I was taking material science.

• 1:39:41Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 1:39:42Speaker 10

  Quick question. There are so many challenges that you can choose to just dive into at this point. How are you choosing the use cases and the challenges? Because I can't even imagine how you're doing that. And then number two, I used to work at Genentech. Do you see quantum solutions supplanting animal testing eventually?

• 1:40:00Speaker 04

  Yeah, so on the great questions. On the first question, how do we choose? You're right, it's a tough thing because quantum sensors alone, just one part of what we do, there's so many applications. And one of the, Kirk before, you know, asked the question about using it a totally different way, which again, is very, very exciting. We've chosen to focus on cardiac care and navigation to start with. We've chosen to say, if people want to partner with us, we're happy to partner with them to look at other applications. We can't do everything. There's just no way we can do that, but we can offer some fundamental stacks that other people can then use. I'm a fundamental believer, and Peter and I have talked about this over the years, of making sure that we can get the core stack technology out on a life.

• 1:40:45Speaker 04

  ...basis to lots of academics and lots of startups out there.

• 1:40:48Peter Diamandis?

  And let evolution take its course.

• 1:40:50Speaker 04

  Yes, exactly. And so one thing we're doing, we're actually now investing in young startups. Right? So if folks have ideas or if there's venture capital folks in the room, we like to co-invest with startups alongside them and say, "Hey, let's invest in this startup and maybe they can use this technology in a totally new way." I think that the old, you know, B-school of the 1980s thinking is, "You know, this company must do this and must focus on this and then keep your all IP in the big mote" and things like that. I think we've now seen, you know, that there's a different way of doing things. Elon famously gave away the patents, opened up the patents to the Tesla because he wanted to see more people out there. I think that is the way to go. The way to go is to publish out,

• 1:41:33Speaker 04

  you know, we publish as many papers as we can to show people what we're doing. We are offering up the stack out there so people can license it and run with it and we'll even give them money, you know, to invest in them and run with them. So that's in a sense of what the best way, you know, to go with that, to go with that is.

• 1:41:53Peter Diamandis?

  Thank you, Annie. All right, Nora.

• 1:41:56Speaker 11

  Hi. In the image where you showed the noise for, what is the reason why you couldn't just take like a baseline read without a human in the room of what the noise was like with the elevators and then take a second one and delete it?

• 1:42:14Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:42:15Speaker 11

  And/or triangulate with three?

• 1:42:19Speaker 04

  Yeah, no, great question. So one of the reasons is, yeah, certainly, you'd want to take a baseline reading and you want to get a sense of the noise in the room and we do try to do that. But even the human body has, offers a lot of noise. That's part of the issue. One of the things that's producing magnetic fields is also our brain. It's a very weak magnetic field, but it is a magnetic field as well. And so, and the other humans in the room also, you know, could also be offering up new noise as well. So there's a lot of noise factors there. So we have to have, you know, better and better machine learning tools to really understand. Here's the good news, though. Because the heart has this Pattern to it, right, where it's beating X number of times a minute. It it's we have a way to anchor ourselves into ground truth, right?

• 1:43:02Speaker 04

  Um, it would be much more difficult if the heart were this chaotic kind of ballgame that we couldn't, you know, understand at all. But in fact, we can understand the regular heartbeat and that actually allows us to go into um chaotic fibrillation as well and understand that. Because once we lock on to the signal, that then the ML algo is like, that's my signal. I'm going for that. And thank God, again, these GPUs. When you have a device like this, you cannot be going to the cloud and sending processing to the cloud, both for privacy reasons and latency reasons. You need to do everything onboard. And again, five, six years ago, these GPUs were not powerful enough to do that. But today, we can do that. Thank you. Okay, Anusha.

• 1:43:45Speaker 12

  Um, Jack, as you mentioned, this is one of the most powerful technologies that will transform our world. And how can we make sure that this is not locked up in certain countries or certain large corporation? And it's truly democratized and every person in every part of this world can get access to it and innovate with it and take advantage of it.

• 1:44:08Speaker 04

  Well, this is what Peter and I, we didn't get to this topic, but Peter and I wanted to talk about the growing quantum divide. I think all of us in this room were at the point 20 years ago, we remember the launch of efforts to attack the digital divide, right? Where digital divide is, if you don't have a cellphone, starting 20 years ago and then starting 10 years ago, with all the rise of the smartphones and all the services you can get. You were blocked off from health education. You're blocked off from financial services. You're blocked off from e-commerce and selling your wares onto Etsy and, you know, lots of places around the world. You're blocked off from taking loans. I served on boards of microfinance banks for 10 years. And the rise of the smartphone was a critical tool for us to get to people and to engage with them with their loans and give them financial education

• 1:44:52Speaker 04

  so they could actually build their businesses with the loans that we were giving them. But all that was cut off from you if you were in the billions of humans who did not have access to it. And now, 20 years later, finally, at the rate of about 200 150 million people a quarter right now, people are joining the internet for the first time, right now. And so we're now squeezing that digital divide down, but as that is happening, we've opened up unfortunately a quantum divide, a divide where there's about 20 countries in the world that have national blueprints. Australia is one of them with incredible quantum science in Australia, UNSW and many universities there, US, UK, Canada, so and so forth, but 170 countries do not have quantum programs.

• 1:45:36Speaker 04

  And we are very, very concerned because those have-nots will then have to pay rent to the haves in terms of the medicines, the battery chemistry, the material science, the quantum sensors for medical diagnostics, the quantum sensors for navigation, all this, the have-nots will have to then find from the haves. That is a problem. And so what fundamentally it comes to is the topic that Peter and I wanted to focus on, which is the educational topic. The good news is we don't need 100,000 people per country to know quantum. You need literally just a few thousand people in each country to know this, and the question is how can we do this? We have a new initiative with the World Economic Forum, many others as well, not just us, it's

• 1:46:18Speaker 04

  a global issue, and we want to nip this one in the bud way before we did the digital divide. I would say I failed in the digital divide, just to take personal responsibility that I tried, I worked on it, and I did not make much of a difference at all in the digital divide. I went to many, many countries where we were doing microfinance banking, and we tried to get programs going, and we worked with, you know, Grameen Bank and others, and great efforts, but ultimately we didn't have much of a difference. We didn't make much of a difference. And one of the things that animates me now about this is my failure in digital divide, and I hope we can do a better job here. Amazing.

• 1:47:01Peter Diamandis?

  All right, guys, last one standing here.

• 1:47:04Speaker 13

  All right, thank you very much.

• 1:47:06Peter Diamandis?

  Max Millian, yes, please.

• 1:47:08Speaker 13

  You mentioned early on that the climate change issue is, I mean, you had the epiphany, and it seems to me that that's a very important use case for your tools. And I would like to ask you whether you could elaborate a little bit on that. What is it we're talking about? Are we talking simulations to decarbonize the economy?

• 1:47:30Speaker 04

  Yeah, let me just briefly touch on it. I also want to thank Shiv Kemka, who might be here tonight, who came with us on the Antarctica trip and had great contributions on that trip as well. But what we realize is that using these tools, number one, we need to get beyond just lithium ion in terms of battery chemistry. If we want to scale battery chemistry, not just for electric vehicles, which is critical, but also for stationary, the larger impact is stationary batteries, right? To store not just solar and wind, but even whatever electrons you have, by getting them at night and off-peak and storing them in a building like this and then using them by day, that arbitrage, right, allows us to shave the peak and to have better, more efficient use of whatever electrons we're making.

• 1:48:14Speaker 04

  This battery chemistry, there's many proposals out there in the academic literature, zinc, air, aluminum, different ideas of material science for the anode, the cathode, the electrolyte, the membrane, all this kind of stuff. But this needs quantum simulation. We need to do the billions and billions of combinatorial runaway in terms of making that new chemistry happen. Again, just like clinical trials, if we physically build each one of these batteries, we'll never get there. And that's why we're still stuck with the current, you know, there's no Moore's Law when it comes to battery chemistry, right? There's E. Room's Law. Anyone know what E. Room's Law is? E. Room's Law is Moore's Law backwards. And so...

• 1:48:54Speaker 04

  Okay, it's slowly getting out there, okay. And so we haven't seen Moore's law in terms of battery chemistry, in terms of the density, power density, energy density, any way you want to cut it. We now need to use these tools and look at and model billions of combinations of chemistries so that we can have the breakthroughs. Not instead of lithium ion, we'll use lithium ion, but alongside that, we need specific chemistries for other use cases. So that's an issue for climate change. Prosciutto. Does anyone know prosciutto? Any ideas what prosciutto is used for?

• 1:49:25Peter Diamandis?

  We've talked about prosciutto here.

• 1:49:27Speaker 04

  Good. So prosciutto for solar, we're still stymied by critical issues of stability. After just six or 12 months, sometimes, these things are breaking down. We need to do the combinatorial billions of simulations to get prosciutto more stable, as an example, and get the lead out and cadmium out, so on and so forth. And that's what we need to do. So for climate change, that's one thing. And then, of course, for the data of actually what's happening to our planet, we, down in Antarctica, just dropped a quantum sensor off the side of the boat, towed it with us, and did magnetic readings underneath the southern ocean, in the southern ocean, so that we can do better ROV, better underwater drones, so we can take better measurements of how the sea is changing.

• 1:50:09Speaker 04

  And so this is all part of a more advanced climate science that we can get to.

• 1:50:14Peter Diamandis?

  You know...

• 1:50:15Speaker 04

  Thank you. Thank you.

• 1:50:17Peter Diamandis?

  Jack, you're amazing.

• 1:50:19Speaker 04

  Thanks.

• 1:50:20Peter Diamandis?

  Let's give it up for this man here. You know, I write books for popular consumption. He writes this quantum computing and applied approach.

• 1:50:33Speaker 04

  This is a beach read, Peter.

• 1:50:35Peter Diamandis?

  And this is giving...

• 1:50:36Speaker 04

  For these people in this room, it's a beach read, I think.

• 1:50:40Peter Diamandis?

  This is like, this is bringing me back to...

• 1:50:42Speaker 04

  We have a sophisticated audience here.

• 1:50:43Peter Diamandis?

  Bringing me back to my quantum physics and complex calculus classes that were not a cakewalk for me, as they were for you. Buddy, thank you. Are you able to stick around for folks to spend a few more minutes with you?

• 1:51:01Speaker 04

  Yeah, we do have to fly out tonight, but Peter, I just want to thank you for bringing this incredible group together, all of you in this room. I just, I think it's very clear, I'm sure you've now been spending two and a half days with Peter and the ideas. Every time that Peter and I collaborate, I come away inspired, energized, and I'm sure I can speak for everyone here that you have that same. Guys, let's give it up for Jack Hittery.

• 1:51:39Speaker 14

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