236: Bodies Kept Behind Walls in The House?! | The Chilling Case of Jerri Israel

A quaint house in Gulfport, Mississippi seemed to be occupied by a normal family. But when a missing persons report was filed, connected to the address, police made a truly shocking and grisly discovery. What they found would horrify not only neighbors, but the nation… Get ready for another deep dive with your true crime bestie @_annieelise! Join our True Crime Club for access to BTS, Bonus Content, Our Private Group Chat, Giveaways and More! Shop Our True Crime Merch Follow the podcast on: IG, Facebook and TikTok For Business Inquiries: [email protected] About Annie Today’s Sponsors: Quince: Go to https://quince.com/ae for 365-day returns, plus free shipping on your order! Ancient Nutrition: Go to https://ancientnutrition.com/ae for 25% off your first order. Fum: Go to https://tryfum.com and use code SERIAL and get a free gift with your journey pack. Rocket Money: Head to https://rocketmoney.com/ae to cancel your unwanted subscriptions & reach your financial goals faster. Episode Sources:CNNNewspapers.comLaw and CrimePalm Beach PostMagnolia State LiveDazed Digital

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Annie Elise?

  Whoever says saving money is hard doesn't know that new customers who bundle and save with Progressive save hundreds. Because switching your home and auto insurance is way better than cutting down on the things you love, like those iced lattes that help you get ready to face the day. So switch your home and auto to Progressive and see if you could save and keep sipping away. Get your quote today at progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company affiliates and other insurers not available in all states. Gifts mean more when they have the power to unwrap more of who you are. This Black Friday, give a gift that goes beyond the box. The Dell XPS 13 Laptop. It's the thinnest, lightest XPS laptop, yet with a long battery life, beautiful design,

• 0:42Annie Elise?

  and powerful performance with Intel Core processors. The XPS Laptop unlocks more of what you love. Plus, at dell.com, you will find perks like Dell Rewards, fast free shipping, and flexible financing, and big savings on monitors and accessories. Head to dell.com/deals. That's dell.com/deals.

• 1:07Speaker 01

  My six-year-old little sister is taken from her bed and violently murdered, and we don't have any answers? It's been 30 years. It's not okay. We will find this person. It's not a question of if, but when.

• 1:16Speaker 02

  Who killed JonBenet Ramsey? You think you know this mystery? But do you know about the DNA at the crime scene? Can science finally solve this case? And who is Unknown Male 1?

• 1:27Speaker 03

  An intruder, a third-party male.

• 1:29Speaker 04

  So Unknown Male 1 is out there somewhere.

• 1:32Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:33Speaker 02

  The stunning, all-new Diane Sawyer investigation, Friday night on ABC.

• 1:39Annie Elise?

  Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all-new episode of Serial Sleep.

• 2:02Annie Elise?

  Hey everybody, welcome back to an all-new episode of Serialously, your favorite true crime podcast with me, Annie Elise. Do I sound like a, I don't know, an auctioneer or something? I don't know. But hi, it's me, Annie, your true crime bestie. I am here to break down another case for you on this early, early morning. And boy, oh, boy, okay. My favorite word lately, I don't know if I would say favorite word, but like most used word has been diabolical because I feel like so many of the cases that I've talked about have literally been the true definition of diabolical. Today's case, we need a new word. It is like unhinged, barbaric, brutal, diabolical, psychotic. Like,

• 2:47Annie Elise?

  I need a new word. So I don't own a thesaurus. I guess I own one on the phone. You know what? Let's do that really quick. Let's do this like group activity together. Hold on. Siri, what's another word for diabolical?

• 3:04Speaker 05

  Include devilish, diabolic, fiendish, satanic, and Mephistophelian. First you have to tell me where you are. Go to privacy settings.

• 3:15Annie Elise?

  We're definitely not doing that. Mestaphasintimate, what'd she say? Okay, so I kind of like satan- no, I don't like satanic. Whatever. We're gonna just go with diabolical because the case that we're talking about today, it like has scamming, going on the run, drugs, people being imprisoned, bodies being hidden in walls of homes. I mean, it is psychotic and unhinged. It really is. So I'm gonna shut up now and we're gonna jump right in.

• 3:46Speaker 06

  We're continuing to uncover more disturbing details whose body was discovered in a wooden box hidden inside the home. The more I look into Jerry Lynn Israel, the stranger this all becomes.

• 3:57Speaker 07

  Tonight, investigators working to identify a person found dead inside a box at a Gulfport home. Police were first called to 16th Avenue and 22nd Street this morning to investigate a missing person case.

• 4:10Speaker 04

  It was in a makeshift box. And so in order to get the box out, we had to cut through the side of the house and in order to extract the-

• 4:19Speaker 06

  The box. This is brand new investigation. Um, there's a lot I can't answer right now. This is one of those stories that sends you down a rabbit hole of twists and turns. Because as we previously reported, this isn't the first time that 66 year old Jerry Lynn Robey.

• 4:35Annie Elise?

  So at about 5:45 PM on December 22nd, 2023, police officers in Gulfport, Mississippi, received a call about a possible missing person. And as you can probably guess, Gulfport is right along the Gulf Coast and it's a town of about 73,000 people. It's best known for being close to some of the most beautiful beaches and it also has a couple of casinos, a handful of motels, but the residential areas are pretty much like low key. But basically Gulfport is like a nice little town. It's definitely not a place where you would expect to hear about a violent crime. I mean, nothing crazy really ever happens there. Usually. Except on that day, which was a Friday,

• 5:16Annie Elise?

  the police were looking for that missing person and they were doing a wellness check at a modest 1,000 square foot home just five miles from the airport. It was on a quiet street near some big trees. It had a chain link fence around it. There were a couple of cars in the driveway and a little short walkway up to the door. And it was a little rundown for sure. I mean, but from the outside, it kind of just looked like a typical single family home. And the police were there to look for John Gaither, a 42 year old man who hadn't been seen or heard from in about two weeks. Now, standing at six foot one, John was a pretty good looking guy. He was fit, he dressed well, he wore his hair in a buzz cut, and John's neighbors said that he and his family seemed pretty normal. Nobody had noticed anything out of the ordinary recently. He had been acting

• 6:01Annie Elise?

  pretty normal and really just going about his usual routines. So John seemed like he was just this like regular guy. The neighbors would see him around the house, you know, working on cars, said he was a nice enough guy, like nothing very groundbreaking or anything that would like raise the red flag. John was also living with his biological mother, Jerry Israel. And Jerry was 66 years old. She was about 5'6". She had blonde hair that went down to her shoulders, really prominent cheekbones that stood out and there aren't a lot of photos of Jerry out there but I will say she looks kind of intimidating in all the photos that are out there I could only find maybe three photos of her actually smiling and she

• 6:42Annie Elise?

  just seems pretty stern and kind of like no nonsense but her neighbors all said that she was a nice woman who was always down for some casual small talk here and there although I guess for the most part she pretty much kept to herself but on that December day the police were there because they were searching the house because of a welfare check that came in from John's stepmother Karen Karen had raised John and she still lived in California where he had grown up even though they were in different states now they usually talked a lot but beginning around mid-December about two weeks before this John had just stopped replying to Karen's phone calls and text messages so it was pretty weird that he had been radio silent for so long and I mean after all we all have social media cell phones and email so it certainly isn't hard to stay in touch

• 7:27Annie Elise?

  with family you know anywhere in the country or anywhere in the world for that matter but here John was apparently giving Karen the silent treatment completely just out of nowhere now because Karen lived out of state she couldn't just go to John's house and see what was up right or try to talk to him so after more than a week of not hearing from John she just wanted to make sure that everything was okay so she ended up reporting him as missing to the police and then that next day when the detectives didn't have any information or any answers to give her she also went on Facebook and started asking people for tips and support she wrote my stepson John is missing he is 42 6'1" or

• 8:06Annie Elise?

  so usually has a shaved head last seen in Gulfport Mississippi supposedly on his way to Louisiana to buy a car please share in hopes to find him Gulfport PD said that they will put him on the national database but I'm hoping that people on social media will share this post and we will find John thank you now I will say it might seem like an overreaction to call in a wellness check on your adult stepson after only 12 days especially because other family members said that they had heard from John had been, I guess, sending them letters, some of which were written after Karen had said she had stopped hearing from him. So it seemed like it was all kind of just a false alarm, right? Maybe just a stepmom getting a little bit too paranoid. Karen even talked to John's

• 8:51Annie Elise?

  biological mother, Jerry, also known as the woman that John was living with. And even though Jerry had admitted that she hadn't heard from John for a while, she certainly didn't think that it was necessary to file a missing persons report. So really, it seemed like Karen was the only person who was worried about him. And because she didn't have anybody else telling her, you know, that she was right to be so concerned, she kind of just was freaking out by herself independently, just in this state of panic. Eventually, she decided that, you know, it wouldn't hurt for the police to just start asking around, just make sure that John was okay. I mean, the worst that could happen would be to find out that he was fine, that he was just taking some time for himself. Maybe he would feel, sure, a bit annoyed with the cops knocking at his door, a little annoyed with his stepmom

• 9:36Annie Elise?

  for sending in this wellness check. But it seemed worth the risk, I mean, for Karen's peace of mind at least. So that's why she requested the wellness check at John's address. And as for that house, well, as soon as the police showed up, they could tell that it looked a little bit odd. Part of it was boarded up, almost like somebody had cut a giant hole in one of the walls without fixing it up afterward. Then there was a bunch of trash in the yard, just scattered everywhere. And I'm not trying to be judgy here, I promise. I mean, keeping a house clean and keeping it nice and tidy, it's definitely hard work. But from photos of the place, it just did not look very welcoming. And I've got to imagine that as soon as the police showed up to this address and saw how everything looked, they were probably on alert. It just didn't seem like a place where you would

• 10:21Annie Elise?

  want to be looking around, especially after dark. So they knocked on the door. And when they did, his mom, Jerry, answered. But she told the police that her son had taken a whole bunch of cash and just left for Louisiana. Apparently, he was on his way there to buy a new car, which was in line with what everybody else had thought. She said that's why he needed all of that money. She said that once he bought the car, had it all paid for, and everything was settled, he was going to come back home, safe and sound. I mean, Jerry definitely was not Worried at all, but there was one thing that was odd in all of this because the car that John already had was parked at the house. So how was he planning on getting to Louisiana almost a thousand miles away without a car?

• 11:03Annie Elise?

  And yes, it's not illegal for a forty-two-year-old man to not talk to his mom for a couple of weeks. And it's also not illegal for a forty-two-year-old man to go buy himself a car, even if he goes with a friend or takes a bus there or, you know, hitchhikes for all I know, whatever. So for the police, this wasn't even suspicious, not at all. So they didn't take the report very seriously. That being said, though, they did decide to look at his financial records, see if they could track him down and confirm that he was at the very least okay, you know, alive and well and fine. Except when they did that, they weren't able to track John at all after December tenth, because that's when all of his cellphone activity and his credit card activity just stopped.

• 11:44Annie Elise?

  There were no signs that he had ever even made it to Louisiana and certainly no indication other than the cash that he had left with that he had bought a car. So that was a little strange. And even though the police still weren't treating his disappearance as this urgent thing, the whole situation was weird enough that they filed a report and added John to the Registry of Missing People, just like they promised his stepmom that they would. But then they left it alone for a little while. They probably figured that this whole situation would just iron itself out and John would come, you know, walking back up the driveway within a couple of days. But five days later, on December twenty-seventh, it was still radio silence on John's end. So that was the day that the police went back to John's house for a follow-up visit.

• 12:27Annie Elise?

  And when they did, they noticed something odd. Jerry's story of what happened to her son in the last few days since he had gone missing seemed to have changed. Now unfortunately, the police haven't publicly given any details on exactly how her story changed, you know, what details were inconsistent, nothing like that. All I know for sure is that Jerry was acting untrustworthy. She was throwing up all kinds of red flags. The police also described her in one of their reports as, quote, "uncooperative." And again, I wish I knew the full details. And what specific things she was doing instead of, you know, cooperating. But the full story hasn't been made public yet. But whatever Jerry was doing, it was definitely making the police kind of give her a little bit of like

• 13:10Annie Elise?

  side eye, kind of just like thinking she's not being totally honest with them. Now, because they lived together, Jerry was probably the last known person to have seen John, right? So she was the only lead that the cops really had to work with. But without probable cause and with no warrant, there wasn't really much that they could do. They took note of Jerry's changing stories and, you know, did what they could in that regard. But then they headed back to the station to try to come up with something that might actually get them into that house. So they could possibly search or find or see something that would give them some sort of indication about what happened to John. And guys, when they got back to the station and started doing some digging, they found plenty.

• 13:52Annie Elise?

  Jerry had a very lengthy rap sheet and I'm gonna just put a pin in that for now. Don't worry, I will definitely come back and talk all about her history, all the charges that she has faced in her past, all of that. All you really need to know at this point in the story is that Jerry's history was colorful, to say the least. And colorful enough that the police were willing to say, okay, yeah, we have good cause to do more of a search and really try to find John right now. So just shy of a month later, on January 18th, 2024, at about 10 a.m. Some detectives and crime scene techs came back to the house, this time with a warrant. Jerry's neighbors were definitely shocked to see a swarm of cops outside because

• 14:34Annie Elise?

  before this time, Jerry and John had seemed like a pretty normal mother and son. You know, they would be outside, they would do yard work together, they would occasionally chat with the neighbors. There was definitely nothing that had given anyone any reason to think that either of these two people would be related to this massive police search. So the detectives went inside the house and right away Jerry started freaking out, just acting like something terrible was happening, which I have to say, that was pretty suspicious on her part, right? I mean, even more suspicious than all the other ridiculous stuff that she had been doing up until this. But the detectives hadn't even found anything yet, yet she was starting to panic and act a little bit frantic. So far, her place had looked like any ordinary house would. But Jerry's

• 15:19Annie Elise?

  behavior, it was setting up all kinds of red flags. Then, right away, while the search was actually happening, still going on, she got her hands on a pill bottle. Then she swallowed a handful, a fistful of pills, in an attempt to take her own life. Now, the good news is that the detectives realized what was going on and they got her to a hospital. She recovered. But this was one more thing in like the already bizarre and erratic behavior to be like, uh, what does this chick have to hide? Like, what is going on here? So she didn't get out of this search the easy way. Not at all. She didn't escape from this investigation by dying, although she clearly wanted to do that. And even with her attempt, the police didn't call off their

• 16:01Annie Elise?

  search of the house. Not at all. And guys, what they found inside, it was insane.

• 16:11Annie Elise?

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• 16:53Annie Elise?

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• 17:35Annie Elise?

  So for a new wireless plan, starting at 15 bucks a month, go to mintmobile.com/ae. That's mintmobile.com/ae. $45 upfront payment required, equivalent to $15 per month. New customers on first three month plan only. Taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details.

• 17:59Annie Elise?

  So the police are inside searching the house and one of the walls in Jerry's home was actually a false wall. That's right. It looked like just a regular wall, but it was actually made specifically to hide something behind it. Now that in and of itself is definitely suspicious, right? It wasn't like an actual crafted panic room. It was a faulty wall, like there was something hidden. There's no reason that you would literally need to build a secret hiding place in your own house. If you weren't, you know, well, hiding something, right? So the police pulled the wall back and when they did, they found a mattress behind it. And this mattress, it was turned upright, like it was also almost like acting like a door, like it was also hiding something.

• 18:40Annie Elise?

  So they of course knew they needed to move this mattress. So they tipped over the mattress and when they did, they found a sealed closet. It was almost like Russian dolls, you know, the kind where it's like you open it and it goes to a smaller doll, then another one and another one. Almost like every layer added to another layer. Then finally behind the false wall, the mattress inside the sealed closet. Covered in clothing and trash, they found a giant wooden box. A wooden box that was about the size of, say, a person? Now, reports describe this box as everything from a military style locker container to just a plain old big box. So I have no idea what a locker container is or what it looks like. I know the Pelican cases, but that's about it.

• 19:23Annie Elise?

  So I have no idea what makes it military style or military grade. I'm thinking maybe like a big. trunk that goes at the foot of a bed or something like that. But we do know for sure that it was wooden and that it was homemade. So basically it was a big wooden chest. And sure enough, inside that box, when they opened it, the police found John's decomposing body.

• 19:44Speaker 07

  Tonight, investigators working to identify a person found dead inside a box at a Gulfport home. Police were first called to 16th Avenue and 22nd Street this morning to investigate a missing person case. Detectives discovered the body in a six-foot-long container described as a military wall locker. But removing the large container meant taking out part of a wall, which took several hours. It was in a makeshift box. And so in order to get the box out, we had to cut through the side of the house and in order to extract the box. This is brand-new investigation. There's a lot I can't answer right now. We're sending the body off to the crime lab.

• 20:29Speaker 07

  Once we get the cause of death and the identification of the body, we'll have more. Police are questioning one person about this death, but no arrests have been made.

• 20:41Annie Elise?

  Now this gets even creepier because as they went further into the house, the police found several of these homemade wooden cadaver-style-type boxes. They were all parked in the garage. So what was Jerry up to? What kind of person just keeps what are essentially a bunch of homemade coffins on hand, right? So either way, the police were definitely kind of like irked a little bit. They were feeling a little suspicious. So as soon as Jerry recovered from her suicide attempt, they arrested her. Now, reports vary on this part because some say a man that she was living with, either her husband or boyfriend, was inside the house and that he was arrested too. But some different reports say that he wasn't there at the time of the search. So it's a little bit unclear.

• 21:26Annie Elise?

  But either way, he was eventually brought into the station. And during the questioning, this man said that he helped build the closet and the false wall. I've also read that he even helped build those homemade wooden coffins, all of those. wooden boxes. However, with all of that, and even with that admission, he said he had absolutely no idea what Jerry was going to use these wooden boxes for. Now, obviously, this was a very unusual situation. But me personally, I don't know. If somebody asked me to help build this like secret compartment in the walls of our house, and then had me build these coffin sized wooden boxes, I'd probably start getting a little bit suspicious. If my, my husband was like, hey babe, can you help me make this faulty wall and stack a mattress here?

• 22:10Annie Elise?

  And hey, can you make the wooden box for me that's six feet by two feet? Like, I'm not gonna do anything with that. I'd be like, huh? Well, come again? What do you mean? I mean, that's just me, but like, the red flags would for sure be going up. Now, I do know that after all of this, Jerry was being held without bond because the police thought that she was a flight risk. And the reason why they thought that was because for decades before her son was even found dead inside her house, Jerry had been racking up a long rap sheet, the one that I mentioned earlier. And I hinted at this before, but this criminal history was the main thing that helped the police get the warrant to search her house in the first place. So now I want to go over everything with you because

• 22:53Annie Elise?

  there's a lot. We are not even at the peak of this like psychotic unhinged story and case. So buckle up because it is a crazy ride. Now, in order to understand who Jerry was, we're gonna go back to the nineties, you know? The days of dial-up, the days of AOL, you know, the skinny little tiny, tiny micro eyebrows and power suits, all of these things, and we're going way, way back. So Jerry's first husband passed away in 1991 when her son, John, was just nine years old. Officially, the death was ruled a suicide. Jerry told the police that he had shot at her and then he shot himself. But when he died, Jerry collected more than $250,000 in life insurance, which is a lot of money today because

• 23:35Annie Elise?

  think about it, that was back in the nineties, so it was worth even more back then, before all the inflation that we've had in the past 33 years. So let's just say Jerry walked away from her husband's death with a nice chunk of change. A lot of people who knew her thought that this was no accident, not at all. There was nothing physical to connect her to it, I mean, no hard evidence suggesting that her husband's death was anything other than what she said it was, a suicide. But the people who knew Jerry, like, really knew her, said that they thought that she might have had something to do with it, especially since she was there at the time of the shooting. I mean, the details, they just felt off. There were also rumors that Jerry might have actually been the one to have killed her husband, or at least played a role in his death.

• 24:20Annie Elise?

  But again, these were just rumors. There was nothing concrete, there was no proof. Either way, I can only imagine how hard this was on Jerry's son, John. It's hard enough to lose a father that young, and even if the official story was right and it was a suicide, that's a lot for a nine-year-old to deal with and process. So you add in all of these rumors that his mom might have actually been the one who did this and who was responsible and that she committed a murder? I can't even imagine how it would feel to grow up with people saying that about your family, and more than that, about your one and only living parent. Now, John had at least two half-siblings, but other than that, his childhood is a little bit of a mystery. My best guess is that he had a fairly normal life, I mean, other than the weirdness around his dad's death.

• 25:03Annie Elise?

  But his childhood was the sort that didn't make a lot of headlines. And maybe it's overall a good thing that there aren't a whole lot of publicly-known details available and information about it, kind of like a no-news-is-good-news situation? I don't know, that's just my thought. Now, the reason he probably did have a relatively quiet and normal childhood was probably because Jerry wasn't really a part of his life. Around 1986, when John was just four years old, she had told John's father, basically, that he was gonna be a single parent going forward. And then she basically just, like, pieced out, just left, and was barely in touch with John at all from that time on. Which, yes, sounds very sad, but it was probably, in hindsight, a good thing.

• 25:44Annie Elise?

  Because instead of parenting, Jerry was using drugs, she was getting into legal trouble, she was using a lot of different aliases to stay away from the police, and she was also making money working as a part-time phone sex line operator.

• 25:57Speaker 05

  Let's get right to the point. I'm the one you want, and I'm willing to talk. Right now, just you and me. Can you handle that? Good. There's the number. Now you call me. Go on, pick it up and call. Live one-on-one, adult 18 and older only.

• 26:17Annie Elise?

  Now, you know, back in the days before the internet, it wasn't so easy to find adult videos or graphic content or anything like that. So instead, people would call these phone numbers. They would pay these really expensive fees. And in turn, they would get to talk dirty with women who had these really sexy voices. And Jerry owned one of those services, meaning she was getting a cut of every single call that everybody made.

• 26:41Speaker 06

  One of my favorite places to share fantasy is on the phone. With someone I don't even know.

• 26:50Speaker 06

  Sounds like fun, doesn't it?

• 26:54Speaker 06

  I'd like to share my most intimate secrets with you. Make your fantasies come true. Call right now.

• 27:02Annie Elise?

  And it might all seem ridiculous now, but there was a lot of money in this industry. I mean, they say that sex sells for a reason, right? And Jerry was making enough cash that eventually in 1992, she could quit doing the sex line work entirely and move to Florida. And specifically, she went to the beach town of Boca Raton. Boca is a very quiet, very well manicured, very wealthy town. I mean, at least it usually is. But at around 1:00 PM on July 13th, 1993, the Boca Raton police got a phone call about an angry woman on the side of the road. When the police showed up to the scene, they found Jerry, who was going by the name Jerry Gaither at the time. And she was walking along the highway, just carrying a 38 caliber semi-automatic handgun.

• 27:47Annie Elise?

  She was rambling, she was pacing, she seemed pretty volatile. And the cops obviously didn't want to approach her. I mean, she had a weapon and she definitely didn't seem like she was in the right mental state. So, a standoff began. Then, it lasted for almost two and a half hours, with Jerry kind of just like waving this gun around, threatening to take her own life, acting erratically. Then finally, the police approached her. And one of the officers managed to pin her to the ground. And once she was down on the ground and not a threat, Jerry handed over to the cops a handwritten note. Now this note read, "I hope I don't see her wherever I go, perhaps nowhere, maybe heaven. My boyfriend Alan Levy did the actual shooting in Boca.

• 28:29Annie Elise?

  Told me it was my fault for having a gun around at the time when he was mad at her for selling me pills. He told me how to dispose. However, it took me two or three days to get the nerve to do it. Sickening. Tell him not my son. Christina Racy is the girl." And then the note was signed, "Love, Jerry." Now, if you hear all of that and think, "Okay, I have no idea what Jerry was talking about. What was she going on and on about? You are not alone." Because the police basically read this note and they kind of went like, "What the fuck? Like, what is this?" And it was gonna take a lot more research to actually figure out who those people were, what Jerry was trying to say, and what this note alluded to.

• 29:10Annie Elise?

  But because of everything else going on, they arrested Jerry on the charge of carrying a concealed weapon, which honestly, she wasn't even concealing anything. She had that gun right out there in the open, but whatever. I mean, I guess they had to hold her on something while they tried to figure out what was going on. And that charge was as good as any other. I mean, at least it would hold her until they figured out what this note meant and what that other possible shooting was. And when the police were investigating, one particular line in that note was super important. The one where Jerry said, "Christina Racy is the girl." See, the name Christina Racy, it was familiar to the police officers. Christina had been reported missing just one day earlier, on Monday, July 12th.

• 29:52Annie Elise?

  She usually talked to her mom on the phone every single day, but her mom hadn't heard from her for a while. And because of that, the mother was worried enough that she reached out to the police. So the police knew Christina was missing. And now, they had this letter from Jerry where she talked about Christina by name, also saying that there was a shooting and that she had to quote, you know, "dispose of something." So, it wasn't hard to put two and two together. It looked like Jerry and this boyfriend that she had mentioned, Alan, might have killed Christina and disposed of her body. Except, they didn't do a very good job at it. Because Christina was found the very same day that the police arrested her. To Jerry. Her body had been dumped on the side of the road and it was pretty badly

• 30:33Annie Elise?

  decomposed. I mean, decomposed enough that the police had to identify her using her fingerprints. But she had been shot to death, which again, pretty closely matched what that weird note that she passed to the officer said. Jerry told the police that she had left Christina's body on the side of the road several days after she had been killed, but she blamed her boyfriend, Sela Lavie, for killing Christina. She claimed that Christina was her drug dealer, and that she and her boyfriend were buying painkillers from Christina. According to Jerry, her boyfriend had gotten upset when Christina charged them more than what she usually did. In fact, he was so upset, and upset enough, that he shot her, according to Jerry. Then, she said that he left the body in their garage and he forced Jerry to dispose of it using

• 31:17Annie Elise?

  a big rental truck. Then, he threatened to kill her son John if she didn't cooperate. So a few hours after Jerry gave this statement, the police found her boyfriend and they charged him with murder, just on the strength of, you know, what Jerry had said alone. It seemed like it was adding up. And seriously, the only evidence that they even really had against him was Jerry's testimony. And clearly, you know, if you follow true crime, you can't nail someone with a murder charge based on the accusations coming from somebody who's clearly been acting erratic and seems to maybe have some mental stability issues. And because of that, it only took them two weeks of investigation before they ended up dropping all the charges against him. It turns out, this poor guy had just gotten back from vacation when the news of Christina's death broke out. He found out about it when the rest

• 32:01Annie Elise?

  of the world did. And that rental truck? He had just rented it to move a piano. So Jerry was the one who had killed this woman herself, and her boyfriend had no clue that she was pointing the finger at him the entire time, until the police came and started asking him questions. Now luckily for him, he had that rock-solid alibi. Jerry, though, not so much. She couldn't explain where she was at the time of Christina's murder. She had already admitted to helping dispose of the body, and she had also made those false accusations against her boyfriend, so it was not looking good for her, at all. And if she was found guilty of killing Christina, she could get the death penalty. So before her trial got going, Jerry hired a private investigator named Robert Hamilton so that he could help her get off with a lighter sentence.

• 32:45Annie Elise?

  Except, instead of keeping it professional, you know, client investigator and all of that jazz, Jerry and Robert started having an affair. Which meant, that Robert, of course, couldn't be fair or unbiased when he was investigating her case, and it was bad enough that Jerry's lawyer ended up firing Robert. Well, in turn, Robert must have wanted to retaliate or do something because Robert turned around and testified against Jerry during her bond hearing. And you might be thinking, okay, maybe he was just pissed about losing his job, but actually, he had a very good reason to side with the prosecution. He took the stand and he said, that while they were sleeping together, Jerry had looked

• 33:22Annie Elise?

  him right in the eye and asked, "Don't you know you're sleeping with a murderess?" It's officially holiday season, which also means it's hosting season, right? So it's time where you look around, you notice things if you're like me, where like, "Oh, that little area could use a little bit of a refresh," or, "Ooh, I think I need a little bit more decorating over in this corner." And for all things hosting, Wayfair delivers high-quality, customer-trusted products for your home, so that you can host and celebrate without having any of the stress. Wayfair helps you create a home that stands up to real life with thousands of products across every style and budget, plus trusted reviews that make shopping just way easier.

• 34:06Annie Elise?

  Think colorful serving bowls, flameless votive candles, a holiday embroidered cotton napkin set, just the little touches that make everything feel a bit more elevated and cozy. For me, it's my turn to host this year, so I already knew, looking around, I'm like, "Okay, my dishes are not gonna cut it, my napkins aren't gonna cut it." So I was able to get actual holiday dishes at a great value, cute embroidered napkins, I got an amazing new like wood cutting board that you can leave out on the counter that's decorative too, so many amazing things, and the reviews really sold it for me. So when you're refreshing your home this holiday season, Wayfair delivers exactly what you need. Head to wayfair.com to shop all things home. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R dot com.

• 34:56Annie Elise?

  So she's having pillow talk and sex with her private investigator, Robert, and like looks at him and very proudly says like, "Ugh, don't you know you're having sex with a murderess?" Like as though that's like some sexy small talk, but I don't know. I mean, imagine laying in bed with someone that you really like and they just stare you down and announce that they've killed somebody. That is so chilling. Up until that point, Robert had been totally convinced of her innocence too. I mean, you wouldn't have an affair with somebody you thought was a killer, right? Let alone join their defense team. But then that comment, it totally creeped him out and he wanted to get as far away from this whole thing as he possibly could. Apparently Jerry had also been showering Robert with expensive gifts. I mean, we're talking bougie champagne, a 1984 Jaguar car,

• 35:41Annie Elise?

  all of these like extravagant gifts, all to keep him from talking. But I guess he wasn't swayed by the nice booze and the shiny set of wheels because he spilled all the beans in court. He even told the judge that Jerry was too dangerous to be released on bail. So I don't know what the moral of that little dilemma and story is. It's probably never have an affair with your private investigator, or maybe it's don't kill someone, or probably both, I don't know. But with all of this evidence against her, not to mention Robert's testimony, Jerry was charged with first degree murder and her bail was set at $100,000. Which, yes, that is a lot of money, but not if you only have to post 10% of it. And apparently Jerry managed to find some people who would pay the bond. So she got to get out and go free.

• 36:26Annie Elise?

  She was supposed to appear in court again in November of 1994, but she didn't show. She just skipped town altogether. And by her skipping town, this kicked off a manhunt that lasted nearly two years. It had three bondsmen, six bounty hunters, and every law enforcement agency imaginable. They were pulling out all the stops to find Jerry. As it turned out, Jerry was actually really good at avoiding attention and not getting caught. While she was on the run, she had at least five different aliases and she knew how to cover her tracks. She actually went on the run right after her bond was posted. I mean, right away, she immediately... ...high-tailed it out of Florida. She went 750 miles north of Boca, right to North Carolina,

• 37:09Annie Elise?

  where her boyfriend at the time, Billy Canada, lived. And yes, this was a separate boyfriend from the one that she had accused of murder, which, get used to it, because this woman had a lot of boyfriends, guys. So before her scheduled trial date, Jerry rented a car in Billy's name, and she drove back to Boca, basically kind of telling her boyfriend like, "Hey, thanks for helping me go on the run, I'm leaving now, I'm out," like, taking your car. I mean, seriously, she just ditched him. And she got back home and immediately struck up a relationship with somebody new, according to some of the reports. Now, this person was a 78-year-old man, who she was definitely living with as a roommate, but according to some speculation, she was also dating him. His name was Samuel David. And I don't want to speculate on the nature of anyone else's, you know,

• 37:54Annie Elise?

  romantic relationships, but let's just say, there's evidence that Jerry was, at the very least, not the best girlfriend. And, at the worst, a total, complete con artist. That is, besides the fact that she was apparently dating two or three guys all at once. She had a history of seeing guys for just as long as they were willing to give her money, or gifts, or favors. Then, as soon as the cash dried up, or the favors ran dry, she was out. Like, for example, not only Samuel now giving her money and free stuff, but she also never even returned that rental car that she had gotten in Billy's name. And he had to end up reporting it as stolen. So she was only a few days into this manhunt,

• 38:35Annie Elise?

  and already Jerry was just like leaving behind this trail of destruction. Her MO seemed to be using, and then losing, anyone who came into contact with her, anyone who stumbled on her path. So Jerry's next court date rolled around, and sure enough, she was nowhere to be found. The next day, a report came in that she had been seen in the Fort Lauderdale area with a friend. And this was especially concerning, because that friend had actually written Jerry a letter a while back, and it talked about them taking a trip to Europe. So of course, the investigators were now asking themselves if this was all part of the plan, if she was planning on fleeing to Europe with this friend. But the fact of the matter was, Jerry- Hadn't gone anywhere. She was still in Boca, still living with Samuel in his house.

• 39:18Annie Elise?

  It's not clear whether or not Samuel knew that she was this wanted criminal, but I gotta say, I mean, he was 78 years old, so he may have just been a little like tuned out and kind of happy to have this roommate slash possible much younger girlfriend for company. I don't know. But whatever their relationship was, not long after he and Jerry got together, Samuel woke up to find $12,000 in cash, a nice fistful of nice jewelry, and a bunch of guns missing. And you know what else was missing? Jerry. She was nowhere to be seen. Then, the previous boyfriend Billy got a letter from Jerry. It was postmarked for November 9th, and it had been sent from a small town in Florida, and it read, "I realistically fully expect to be brought back or die.

• 40:01Annie Elise?

  Because of it all, I've turned into a person I do not like. I'm using men, just like they've always used me." Now, this was not the only letter that Jerry had ever sent Billy, although it might have been the strangest one. But Billy actually had a whole big box full of notes that he had saved from her, which I don't know if that's because he truly just cared about her so much, and he was like the romantic type, or if maybe he saved them because he wanted to have them for protection of some sort. I don't really know. But now, whatever the reason was, he wasn't thinking in terms of, you know, keeping these sweet, loving letters from his girlfriend, but instead, he thought that there might be a clue in there. Some hint that Jerry might have dropped about where she was headed next.

• 40:44Annie Elise?

  So he got out that box, he opened up the envelopes that were inside, and he discovered that every single letter that he had saved from her had been replaced with a blank piece of paper. And I mean, think on that for a second. Before Jerry rented a car in Billy's name and then just took off, she actually spent time going through this box of Billy's, going through these letters she had written him, pulling out every single one, and then putting a blank one back in the same place. Which, kinda seems crazy to me because why would somebody do that instead of just destroying the entire box and emptying it? Just like light them all on fire, right? I mean, it just feels like a very extreme length to go to. Saying to me. So from there, the police tried to track her by her credit card charges.

• 41:27Annie Elise?

  And I mean, she was still using the card that was in her name, so she wasn't exactly covering her tracks very well. And it turned out that she was hopping from one swanky upscale hotel to another upscale swanky hotel. And around November 18th, she was seen at a very upscale expensive place in Palm Beach. And when she was there, she was running up quite the tab. She was also cashing checks the entire time. So all to say, she might have been a fugitive on the run, but she definitely was not hurting for money. And you might be thinking, well, it sounds like Jerry wasn't doing much to cover her tracks. She doesn't really seem very nervous. I mean, she was pretty openly traveling around. She was using her real name. She was using her credit card, all of those things.

• 42:08Annie Elise?

  Well, for a few months after all of this, she finally did lay low and the police didn't get any tips. In fact, it took until February 6th, 1995 for them to get a tip. And what a tip it was. Jerry was shopping at a department store and she had left her driver's license there. But luckily for Jerry, for some reason, it doesn't look like the cops ever went to that department store to retrieve her license. They didn't even really go there to investigate it further. It seems to me like this could have been, you know, a great opportunity if they had hidden out at the store, waited for Jerry to come back to get her ID, they could have gotten her, they could have arrested her. But for whatever reason, when Jerry came back to the store a month later, she got her license back without any trouble whatsoever.

• 42:52Annie Elise?

  Then, a couple of days after that, Jerry ended up being kicked out of a hotel in Fort Lauderdale for drug use. But again, somehow, and I don't know how it's possible, but the cops didn't come after her. I mean, there were reports just rolling in, rolling in. People were seeing this woman all over Florida. But the tips were always just somehow too little too late. And a year went by of Jerry living as this free woman and always just staying a step ahead of the police. Not because she was some kind of criminal mastermind, but because they just kept dropping the ball. They weren't following up on reports or just showing up a little bit too late to catch her. Now, of course, this was big news and it seemed like everyone was getting in on the hunt for Jerry.

• 43:33Annie Elise?

  I mean, reporters were tracking her every move, bounty hunters got involved, and her family even gave statements to the press. Which, speaking of, let's just say Jerry's own relatives weren't exactly standing up for her. They told reporters that she was, quote, "slick and shrewd and shady." And her brother John King told a local paper that his sister was great at charming people all to get her way. He said, quote, "She likes to make money, and she knows how to." But she couldn't stay on the run forever. Even if, by the time the police finally tracked her down, things got to be even weirder and more violent. It took until June of 1995.

• 44:11Annie Elise?

  But finally, some police in central Florida spotted a Ford Escort rental car that had fake license plates on it. They pulled it over, and when they asked the driver for their ID, she didn't have a driver's license, just a receipt for one that she didn't have with her. She also had a birth certificate with her, which was weird, but it was under the name Carol Ann Navarro. So the officers had this Carol person step out of the car. And when they searched it, they saw a 68-page mail-order catalog for fake IDs. Which, to me, is almost funny. I mean, is there anything more incriminating to keep in your car than a literal catalog for fake IDs? Seems super suspicious, right?

• 44:54Annie Elise?

  And sure enough, it turns out that this Carol Ann Navarro person was, in fact, Jerry. Finally, she had been caught. Not that she was going to go away quietly, not at all. Jerry told the police that she was feeling sick, so because of that, they took her to the nearest hospital, where, there, she downed a bottle of cleaning supplies in an attempt to take her own life. Just like she eventually would swallow a bunch of pills during that search of her house in 2023. Of course, though, as we know, she survived, and she finally had to go to trial and face her charges. She pled guilty to the second-degree murder of Christina Racy. And finally, the story also came out about why she did it, and how. Jerry had shot Christina to death at her house in Boca,

• 45:37Annie Elise?

  which she shared with her boyfriend, you'll remember, the guy that she initially tried to frame for this murder. And at first, Jerry said that her boyfriend killed Christina because she was their regular drug dealer and she had overcharged them for some pills that they wanted to buy. And that part was half true. We know that the boyfriend didn't shoot Christina, Jerry did. But as near as I can tell, after looking at all of the evidence, she was being honest about the motive. She apparently really did kill Christina because she thought that she was being overcharged for the painkillers that she wanted to buy. And not that there's ever a good reason to commit murder, I mean certainly not, but it's shocking to me that the crime was so brutal, given how impersonal the reason was. Jerry could have just found somebody else to sell her drugs for cheaper. Why she had to kill her? I don't know.

• 46:22Annie Elise?

  But instead, she shot Christina. Then, she stuffed the body into the back of a rental truck and drove around with it in the trunk for a few days, finally dumping the body on the side of the road. I mean, literally, for several days Christina was decomposing in Jerry's trunk while Jerry was trying to figure out what to do with her remains. And I'll never understand that because there have been several cases we've covered where people have just like driven around with the dead body in their car for days, some even, as disgusting as it is, months on end. And while I get maybe you're panicking and you're trying to figure out how to cover it up, what if you get pulled over? What about the odor? What about the rotting corpse in your car that you're literally just like living with day to day?

• 47:06Annie Elise?

  I will never understand it. So Jerry was eventually sentenced to 17 years in prison. But then, two pretty surprising things happened, which took this story in a total different direction. You guys know I am all about finding easy ways to get more nutrition into my day. Between recordings, school pickup, after-school activities, you name it, my schedule gets really busy. I definitely don't have time to like cook a meal. And so, I love kachava because I can just quickly grab a shake. It is so easy and also tastes like a little delicious treat. With just two scoops, you're getting protein, fiber, greens, and so much more, and it's all in one delicious shake.

• 47:51Annie Elise?

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• 48:40Annie Elise?

  So the first of the two surprising things that happened in Jerry's story at this point was that she, one, was released in 2003 after serving only seven and a half years of her 17-year sentence, which it's not clear why she got out so early. I mean, letting a criminal out of prison before her sentence was up, especially after her being on the run so long, sounds pretty irresponsible to me. But the second surprise is that after being let out, she laid low for 13 years. From 2003 until 2016, she just kind of went under the radar. And during that time, from what I can tell, she actually really focused on fixing things with her family. Now, remember, she still had a son, John.

• 49:22Annie Elise?

  He was 12 or 13 years old around that time that she had skipped town, but it's hard to say how he felt about all of that. He didn't have much of a relationship with his mom by this point, anyway. And the people who were close to Jerry said that she did, though, still love and care about him, but she and John just weren't really in touch. And I haven't been able to verify this, and you know what I always say, do your own research and double-check everything. But some people who said that they were close to the family also said that when John was a young adult, in his early twenties or so, he moved to Florida, as in the same state where Jerry was living before she got caught, and also where she kept living after she finished her sentence. So I don't know if he came to Florida specifically to find her. and reconcile with her, or if maybe it was, I don't know, more of a coincidence.

• 50:07Annie Elise?

  But I do know that at some point afterward, Jerry and John moved into the same house in Mississippi together. So clearly, by that point, they did have some kind of relationship. But then she got tangled up with the law again, this time for selling drugs. And I couldn't find anything on this case, other than the fact that she served 18 months in prison for it, and then was later released in 2017. But that brings us all the way back to January of 2024, with police still searching for her son, John, and then finding his body in the house that Jerry shared with either her husband or her boyfriend, or whoever that was, whatever that relationship was.

• 50:44Speaker 06

  We're continuing to uncover more disturbing details about the Gulfport woman who is charged with the murder of her own son, whose body was discovered in a wooden box hidden inside the home. Noah Noble has been digging into the story and talking with neighbors. He joins us in the newsroom with the latest details on his findings.

• 51:02Speaker 07

  The more I look into Jerry Lynn Israel, the stranger this all becomes. Not only do Gulfport police say that she's charged with the murder of her son and hid his body and then attempted suicide, she did a shockingly similar crime in the mid-'90s. Thursday, detectives raided her home and found the body of her son, John Allen Gaither, stuffed in a wooden box. Officers had to knock down a wall to get the box out of the home. And while all that was going on, police say Israel apparently tried killing herself, swallowed a bunch of pills, and was rushed to the hospital. She was treated and then taken to Harrison County Jail on a first-degree murder charge. I knocked on the doors of Israel's neighbors, who told me that she seemed like a nice person,

• 51:46Speaker 07

  casually made small talk, and generally kept to herself. And they also said that her son, John Allen Gaither, was just as pleasant, seemed to be some kind of mechanic, always working on cars at the home. And that's why neighbors were shocked to see police pull out his body inside a box in Israel's home. And get this, she did a similar crime in the mid-'90s, when police found a body in the trunk of her car, and then while trying to arrest her, she threatened to shoot herself. According to news reports back in July 1993 in Florida, she shot her drug dealer and hid the body in the trunk of her car. Months later, in December 1993, she had to standoff with police when they found the body and threatened to shoot herself. But she was arrested, charged with murder,

• 52:31Speaker 07

  then posted bond, and according to Florida news reports, skipped town. In July 1995, she was pulled over by a Florida state trooper, and before an arrest could be made, she claimed to be sick, was rushed to the hospital where she tried drinking a bottle of scrub solution. But later that year, she was convicted of second-degree murder, sentenced to 17 years in prison, but Florida prison records show she was released in August 2003. And through our search, we found that Jerry Lynn has had a number of aliases through the years, with the last names Bogart, Gather, Israel, and Roby. So what's next? Well, her case is going before a grand jury in February. Depending on the outcome, the murder trial could start in the following months.

• 53:12Annie Elise?

  And you know what I think the creepiest part in all of this was? Well, the creepiest part aside from finding a dead body rotting behind a false wall? Remember how John's family members had been receiving letters from John after the day when his stepmom said that he went missing? It turns out that Jerry had been writing and sending his family those letters so that they wouldn't get suspicious. She was posing as her son, the son that she killed. Which, what is it with this woman and her letters? I don't get it. I mean, from the letter she wrote to the police in that handwritten note back in 1993, to the letters that she replaced with blank paper at her boyfriend's house, all the way to the letter she wrote up leading to that manhunt? I mean, it just kind of seems to be part of her MO for whatever reason.

• 53:55Annie Elise?

  And it's disturbing to think about because not only had she murdered her own son, but she had it within her to write letters in his voice, his tone, his style, after he was dead. Most parents probably couldn't bear reading or hearing words of their lost child for any period of time after they were gone. But Jerry's first priority wasn't mourning, it was making sure that nobody caught on to her scheme. So Jerry was charged with first-degree murder, and right now, she's currently waiting for- her trial and she's still sitting in jail in the meantime, which don't worry, she's not out. Thank goodness she can't flee. But to get ready for their day in court, the police have been doing extra investigation to try and figure out what actually happened. How

• 54:36Annie Elise?

  Jerry ended up allegedly taking the life of her own son. His autopsy showed that he died of a single gunshot wound, which is in line with her past murder, right?

• 54:46Speaker 06

  Woman accused of murdering her son and hiding his body in a box, making her first court appearance today. Thank you for joining us. I'm Hugh Keaton. Well, this affidavit submitted to the court and an autopsy conducted by the coroner revealing more details of this disturbing crime. Noah Noble is closely following this story and joins us now from the newsroom to break it all down.

• 55:09Speaker 07

  This is one of those stories that sends you down a rabbit hole of twists and turns because as we previously reported, this isn't the first time that 66-year-old Jerry Lynn Robey has been accused of murder, hiding the body and then attempting suicide. More about that in just a minute, but let's talk about the latest developments. Robey had her initial appearance in court and was denied bond. The affidavit submitted by Gulfport detectives alleges she killed her son, 42-year-old John Allen Gaither, with the coroner's office confirming he died from a single gunshot wound around the 10th of December. That's 12 days before police say he was reported missing by out-of-state relatives. And during

• 55:51Speaker 07

  the investigation, his mom, who was originally identified as Jerry Lynn Israel Robey, gave conflicting statements. And on January 18th, a search warrant of her home at the corner of 16th and 22nd, revealed a large box behind a false wall. Inside was Robey's dead son. And while all that was going on, police say that Robey tried taking a large number of pills, apparently trying to kill herself, but she was treated at a hospital and then taken to jail. Harrison County Coroner Brian Switzer said that Gaither's body was well preserved, probably because of the cold weather, and that he was around 6'1", 180 pounds, and that the box he was found in was about 6 feet by 3 feet.

• 56:33Annie Elise?

  But honestly, it's hard to even guess or make a theory about Jerry's motive. The investigators haven't shared any information and even social media and Reddit, like, you know, all the usual places where you would see like and expect to see hot takes, deep theories, little clues. I mean, they're all pretty quiet. The murder is just so bizarre and quite honestly baffling. It's so impossible to explain that most people aren't even trying to explain it. Now, if I had to take a guess, just this is my personal opinion. Again, do your own research, come to your own conclusions. Full disclosure, this is just my guess and I could be wrong. But I think that Jerry killed John over money. This is just a theory and there's no other speculation online to back this up, but just roll with me on it. That's kind of been her MO from the beginning.

• 57:18Annie Elise?

  All of her other crimes were surrounding money. It was all, it was all about money. She killed Christina because she didn't want to pay for the drugs. She scammed all of the boyfriends for all that they were worth. It was just like money was a common thread. And one detail that really stands out to me, again, just speculating here, but bear with me, is the story that she told the police when they first came over for that welfare check. She told them that John had left town with a bunch of cash to go buy a new car. And it was such a specific story that she made a point of saying that he took cash with him. So if someone were to go through John's personal effects, would they find that money missing? Would they find it there? Did Jerry tell that specific cover story to try and explain away where all of John's money went?

• 58:02Annie Elise?

  If he did in fact have a large lump sum of cash on him? Did she kill him to rob him or even maybe rob him first? And when he caught her, things escalated to a murder? I mean, that fits the evidence the best to my mind. I don't know. But that said, I also don't have all of the evidence. The investigation is still ongoing and maybe we'll find something new later on that makes all of this speculation wrong. I don't know. Do your own research. But the other big question to my mind is what's with all of those other wooden boxes? The police still haven't even addressed this. They haven't said if they know what Jerry was planning to use them all for or what the plan was. I mean, I don't think it's too hard to guess and speculate. Coffins, right?

• 58:43Annie Elise?

  Reddit is full of people saying that they're pretty sure that Jerry was planning to kill more people besides John. Which makes sense, right? It's in line. You make a ton of body-sized boxes, you end up putting a body in one of them. I mean, clearly, the rest of them are for more bodies, right? So was Jerry a budding serial killer hoping to rack up more murders? Or was there some other kind of explanation? Maybe she thought that John's body would be harder to find if she had a house full of identical boxes that were empty? I don't know, maybe like the police would open a few of them, find nothing, then stop searching before they made it to the one that actually had her son in it? Clearly, I'm just guessing here because we don't know and we probably won't know until this case goes to trial and the police are willing to share everything they know.

• 59:25Annie Elise?

  But it is a theory. Other than that, no other arrests have been made, but police still do have their suspicions about that possible boyfriend, possible husband guy who was living with her. The one who, you know, helped her make that room full of coffin-style boxes. Now Jerry may not have raised her son, but it's obviously still so disturbing what she allegedly did to him. And I mean, it's crazy that she had been caught for another incredibly brutal murder a few decades ago, and now she was just kind of roaming free and was let out early. John's whole life, sounds like it must have been pretty rough while he was still alive. I mean, his mom was absent for most of the time, and it also looks like she wasn't exactly heavily involved even when she was physically there for him, living with him. And even after they reunited when John was older,

• 1:00:10Annie Elise?

  I can't even imagine what it would be like knowing that your mom, who you were living with, had killed someone. Maybe if Jerry had stayed in prison after that first murder, John would still be alive today. We may never know what her motive was in either one of those cases, but of course, there's pretty much no explanation that would ever make it even close to okay. I think we can all agree on that. John's death may have been horrific, but I can only hope that his memory lives on with the family that he was close to. And thank goodness for his angel stepmom Karen who knew something was wrong and that it needed to be investigated further. Because had she just blown it off like the rest of his family, just not taking it seriously, how long would his body have been inside that wall?

• 1:00:53Annie Elise?

  Sherry have fled, would they ever be able to find her? Would they have ever found him? I mean, there's a lot of questions. So I think for me at least, it's just kind of one more reminder. Always trust your gut, no matter what. It is so important. All right, guys, that's it for today's case. Thank you so much for tuning in with me to another episode of Seriallessly. As a reminder, if you're not following the podcast yet, it takes two seconds and it's totally free, whatever app you're listening on, just hit that follow button so that you don't miss future episodes that I post. And if you're watching the YouTube version of this, hit the subscribe button. All right, I'll be back on the mic with you first thing on Thursday with an all new headline highlights, breaking down everything going on this week in the true crime world.

• 1:01:36Annie Elise?

  But until then, stay safe, watch your back, be nice and don't kill people, don't join any cults, and definitely, definitely, definitely do not stuff anyone in any walls. All right, guys, until the next one, take care, stay safe. Bye.

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