237: Idaho 4 Updates, Madalina Cojocari News, Gabby Petito Doc, Teachers Throw Party for Minors & Female Serial Killer?

Today’s episode dives into everything happening this week in true crime with @_annieelise. From new cases to updates on existing ones and more. Join our True Crime Club for access to BTS, Bonus Content, Our Private Group Chat, Giveaways and More! Shop Our True Crime Merch Follow the podcast on: IG, Facebook and TikTokFor Business Inquiries: [email protected] AnnieToday’s Sponsors:Hero Bread: Head to https://www.hero.co and use code AE for 10% your first order!

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Annie Elise?

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• 0:42Annie Elise?

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• 1:09Speaker 01

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• 1:39Annie Elise?

  Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all-new episode of Serial Sleep.

• 2:02Annie Elise?

  Hey everybody. Welcome back to an all new episode of Serialist Lee with me, Annie Elise, your true crime bestie here to break down everything that is going on in the true crime world this week. And today's episode is headline highlights where if you've been a listener to the podcast for a while, you know, headline highlights comes out on the podcast every Thursday, on YouTube every Friday, and we break down everything that's going on in a week in the true crime world, whether it's new updates, breaking cases, updates to cases we've been following, whatever it may be. So I'm just kind of like here to give you the scoop and the skinny on what's going on in the true crime world because I know unfortunately, sometimes it's a lot to keep up with. There are a lot of moving parts, right? And today,

• 2:44Annie Elise?

  there is no shortage. We have got so much to talk about. We have updates in the Brian Koberger case, the Idaho four, you know, that horrific murder case. We have updates in that we're going to talk about. There's also new information on the Madalina Kojakari case. And if you're not familiar with that one, it's one that I did a deep dive on, I will link it in the show notes, but there's now unsealed documents that have come out. And so it's like, you're taking a more detailed look into this investigation. I'll give you a full recap when we get there, but it's like a missing girl. The parents are super shady. It's a wild one. So there's updates there. We also have a John Doe who was identified as a missing person from 2022 and talks of a potential link to a woman found guilty

• 3:26Annie Elise?

  of murder and a suspect in three other murder cases. Two elementary school teachers have been arrested for throwing a party for minors, which is like absolutely insane to me. There's also a Florida landlord who shot their tenant over, get this thermostat disagreement. Mm hmm. I know, weird, obviously, right? And then also, I want to talk with you about the new documentary that Netflix just announced about Gabby Petito. So we have got a lot to talk about. And I want to just mention, so many of you have been like in my DMs, asking me to give my take on new updates regarding the Blake Lively, Justin Baldoni, Ryan Reynolds of it all. I know a lot of you on this podcast and on YouTube are interested, but I also know

• 4:08Annie Elise?

  because it doesn't really fit in our normal true crime conversation. Some people are like, I don't care about this. I don't care about pop culture. It's not on my radar. Like, leave it to other people. So I do have a lot of thoughts, okay? And I listened to the six-minute voice memo that was leaked earlier this week, or not leaked, but released. And I do have a lot of thoughts. So I'm trying to figure out what platform I want to do that on, whether it is the podcast, maybe it's a live stream, maybe it's a live stream on Patreon where we do talk about things more fluidly. I'm not really sure. So if you have any suggestions or requests, definitely let me know. But I just wanted to bring that up to let you know, you know, it is on my radar and I have a lot of feelings. I have a lot of opinions about it. But anyway, today we're going through

• 4:50Annie Elise?

  headline highlights. So let's jump into the first one. And it's the case that I mentioned just a few moments ago, Madalina Kojakari, because search warrants have now been unsealed. Now, Madalina Kojakari was a name that began sweeping the headlines after her mother Diana reported her as missing on either December 13th or December 15th of 2022. There are conflicting reports on the exact date, but either way, Madalina was just 11 years old at the time. And there are a lot of things that caused this case to be a big headline, but I would say that the thing that stuck out the most and really turned it into the media sensation that it is today is that Madalina had been missing for an entire three weeks by the time she was reported missing. On top of that, her mother Diana only reported

• 5:35Annie Elise?

  her missing after suspicions had already been raised by her school. She had missed so many days in a row that I don't know if it was the truancy officer or who it was that stepped in. I believe it was, but they were like, we need to lay eyes on Madalina. We need to make sure she's okay. Like, what's going on here? So there really was suspicious activity right from the get-go. Madalina was last seen on November 21st, 2022 on surveillance video when she was getting off the school bus. And in this video, it really doesn't paint any sort of sinister picture. It's her carelessly just getting off the bus, messing with her hair, excited for Thanksgiving break. And it's a video that is now Been burned into a lot of people's minds, myself included.

• 6:16Annie Elise?

  And when it comes to this case, the internet sleuths were all coming up with theory after theory. I mean, from Diana purposefully hiding Madalina away, to sex trafficking, to her mom and stepdad basically exchanging her for money. I mean, you name it, the theories were out there. And at the end of the day, this case, it's still unsolved. And a number of theories could hold smaller pieces of the truth for all we know. I mean, who knows? Now, at the time that all of this was really big in the news, Diana and Christopher, Diana's husband and Madalina's stepdad, were both arrested for failing to report Madalina as missing. Diana pleaded guilty and Christopher was found guilty as well. They both have since served their time and have been released, which, I have to say,

• 6:59Annie Elise?

  it's so crazy that so much time has already passed since we first started covering this case, so much so that they already are released. But like I said, I have a few videos already up on my YouTube channel where I cover this case in much more depth, so definitely go check those out for the whole deep dive. But there were allegations of like Diana being a mail-order bride, about abuse in the house, about him covering for the wife, the wife covering for him. It's really complex, and I go into all of those theories over in the deep dive. But for now, let's get into the more recent updates. So just recently, some of the search warrants in Madalina's case have finally been unsealed to the public. Now, I want to be clear, this isn't the first time that certain search warrants have been either unsealed or partially unsealed.

• 7:43Annie Elise?

  But this new round of documents that have been released do have some pretty interesting bits of information that just really continue to add to the mystery of it all. There have been some previous speculations about whether or not Diana had been burning some of Madalina's things after her disappearance. And these new documents shed light onto some of the things that were recovered in the searches of Madalina's home. And it definitely seems like Diana was keen on getting rid of these things, or at least trying to get rid of them. Madalina's mattress, some of her clothing, her Halloween costume from that year, and even some family photos, were all found in a fire pit outside of their house, half burnt, still salvageable enough to identify what they all were, but still attempted to have

• 8:28Annie Elise?

  been disposed of. However, there was one thing found in that fire pit that did not belong to Madalina. And the warrant reads that quote, "A carpet from the home's upstairs spare bedroom was also inside the fire pit." Now, I'll be honest, when it says carpet, I'm not sure if they mean it was a literal square that was cut out of the carpet, or if maybe they are referring to a smaller area rug or something like that. But either way, it's extremely odd. My mind starts going in a million different directions when I think about it. For example, like, was there maybe blood on the carpet and they were trying to dispose of it? Could the upstairs spare bedroom have been some sort of crime scene where they needed to get rid of any possible trace of evidence? Did the detectives find anything else suspicious in that room?

• 9:11Annie Elise?

  I mean, I could go on forever, and none of it is good by any means. The warrant also shed some light on what exactly the detectives were looking for when they were checking the house. According to a local news outlet, the detectives swabbed stains in several different areas of the house. Like one of the light switches, as well as on the carpet in one of the bedrooms. I mean, which bedroom it was, it wasn't specified, whether it was Madalina's room or the spare room where that rug or carpet or whatever was in the fire pit came from, we don't know. But something that was no secret to the public was that both Diana and Christopher's phones were seized when this case was first happening. And these new documents show two really crazy things that were found that I really quickly want to dive into. The first one was that one of the phones seized in December of 2022, though it doesn't state

• 9:56Annie Elise?

  which phone, it had a Discord account on it with 37 unread messages. Now, based on the investigation into the account, they believe that the account was Madalina's, or at the very least was supposed to look like Madalina's. Now, whether or not that was actually her behind the screen, that's up in the air. But a lot of people are saying, okay, well, what's the big deal about this? Well, let me tell you. Even though Discord is an app that can be completely harmless, the investigators also stated that they believe that they found what could potentially be linked to sexual exploitation of a minor. Discord is one of those apps where, I actually use Discord for our private group chat where we're talking about true crime every single day, all different cases, just like, almost as a group chat on your phone, but you don't have to give your phone number, you just

• 10:41Annie Elise?

  create a screen name, like a chat room, dating myself back to the AOL days. So the problem with that is that a lot of people, a lot of young people, I should say, use Discord to send things anonymously, to be anonymous if they meet somebody on a video game or Roblox or whatever it is, they exchange Discords and I think you can actually even play video games now on Discord, I'm not sure. But basically, it's kind of, it's not untraceable, but it does give you more of like a layered piece of protection. And now they're saying that they think that they found content that could be linked to the sexual exploitation of a minor. Now, the second thing that I want to go over was that the warrants revealed that after searching Diana's phone, she had apparently paid a priest

• 11:23Annie Elise?

  in Moldova a whopping four grand in the weeks following Madalina's disappearance. The payments were split, some before talking with him on a phone call for 10 minutes and then some after, but it almost seemed like a down payment or a deposit for something. Then the final payment came after, which I have to say is just strange, not to mention four grand is an insane amount of money for whatever this 10-minute phone call entailed. And to a priest of all people, it's even more strange. I mean, maybe it was some sort of spiritual forgiveness type of thing, I don't know. There were also a lot of rumors that because of the abuse or what the stepdad was involved with in Madalina's disappearance,

• 12:04Annie Elise?

  again, all alleged, just do your own research, nothing has been proven, but a lot of people were saying that the reason her mom didn't report her as missing right away is because she is the one who tried to hide Madalina, that she had someone, I don't, what's the word I'm looking for, like smuggle her out of the country and that she paid a fee to get Madalina to safety away from the stepfather. Is that true? Again, I don't know, it's all in the deep dive. Now, maybe one of the biggest takeaways from this resurgence in this case is that the Cornelius Police, specifically Deputy Chief Jennifer Thompson, told the media that they believe that Madalina is still alive. Now, it's one thing for a case to fizzle out and for the detectives to believe there's no chance that a kid is

• 12:45Annie Elise?

  still alive, but for investigators to believe that she is still possibly alive when we're now coming up on year three of this thing, I mean, this is huge. It gives this case some much needed hope. Now, there was something else from the announcement that the deputy gave that I want to touch on because it really does tie back into the theories that I mentioned at the beginning. And even some of the theories that I talked about, you know, back in 2023 when I last covered this case. But she's quoted as saying, quote, "Someone is still out there that has the bit of information as to what happened to her and where she is. I think Diana possibly has that information." Diana was officially named a suspect in Madalina's case in July of 2024, even though people were more than suspicious of her long before then.

• 13:29Annie Elise?

  And even though no other charges have ever been made against her, the investigators have made it very clear that this is not a cold case and that nothing is off the table yet. As much as I can hope and pray that we will one day have the answers to this case that makes it all finally come together and, you know, make some sense, I can't help but worry that it might be another JonBenet sort of case where we still will be questioning what the heck happened 15 years from now. Or maybe there will be a huge break in the case and one day we'll be getting an insane Netflix tell-all by Madalina herself. I don't know, it really could go either way. There are just so many elements to this case that don't sit entirely right with me. And if you've been following it, you probably know what I'm talking about. There's, you know, allegations of drug use, of course, the exploitation,

• 14:14Annie Elise?

  the physical harm inside the home, the fact that there were so many delays in reporting her missing and then cover-ups and then this fire pit of her personal belongings and seemingly evidence outside of the home. Like, it doesn't make sense. But then saying that she's still alive or they believe she's still alive? I don't really know where to go from here. So we are following this case again very closely and I will keep you updated. Now, moving into our next segment, John Doe has been identified as a missing 28-year-old and also potentially linked to possible female serial killer. Now, I want to say from the start that this next case is one that definitely caught my attention because it's a frustrating one. Because even though it seems like we know a whole lot, it's also like we know absolutely nothing.

• 14:59Annie Elise?

  Regardless, I'm curious to see where all of this will go. So let's just get into it. On January 21st, a John was confirmed as being the remains of a 28-year-old man named Santino Cardella. Santino had been reported missing all the way back in April of 2022. Santino, known as Tino by his close family and friends, was from Colorado Springs, and he was described as living a transient lifestyle. Not much is known about his actual disappearance, like who reported him missing or when he was exactly last seen. But right away, the Colorado Springs Police Department made it known that they were looking into a potential foul play situation being involved in this. But again, the exact details as to why are still unknown, and that was almost three years ago.

• 15:41Annie Elise?

  So even when I was trying to look up articles on this case from 2022 and 2023, there really wasn't much to work with. I don't know if that was due to lack of information or lack of update, or maybe the investigators have kept it under wraps, hoping they were close to a resolution. I'm not sure. But in October of 2024, the Colorado Springs Police were tipped off about a property that the tipster felt might have Santino's remains on it. It was in Pueblo, Colorado, which is about a 45-minute drive away from Colorado Springs. So the investigators launched a full-blown search, serving a search warrant for six different parcels of land. And sure enough, there were remains found on the property. Again, not a whole lot of details have been shared about this specific tip or even the area where the remains were found.

• 16:24Annie Elise?

  We don't know whose property it was or what the exact details of the tip were. And in fact, the remains weren't even identified as being Santino's until the 21st, which was how the remains were listed as a John Doe for so many months. And remember, this is someone who had been missing for over two years when the body was finally found. So his remains were just that, remains. It wasn't like his family could come in and just easily verify his body based on what he looked like or what he had been wearing. And even though they were able to later identify his body, we don't know as of right now what his cause of death or manner of death was. We don't even know for sure at this point if they are aware of those things yet or if they will ever be able to tell. Sometimes, as time passes, depending on how the person died, it could be really difficult to pinpoint an exact cause of death.

• 17:08Annie Elise?

  But like I said, his disappearance was always handled as if foul play was possibly involved. So I'm sure that it is still something that they're heavily Looking into. So now let's get into how exactly his death might be linked to a potential female serial killer, because that's a really huge part about this discovery. Colorado Springs Detective Nicole Black was the first person to bring up this potential link back in 2022, long before Santino's body was ever found. In April of 2022, the same month that Santino went missing, a woman named Decca Simmons was arrested and charged with the murder of 48-year-old Daximo Seha. Now, this murder, it was pretty gruesome. Decca shot him, dismembered his body, and then stored the remains in a freezer before

• 17:53Annie Elise?

  dumping them in a bag somewhere. She was caught up in that case primarily through her DNA and was eventually found guilty, and she was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. So where does this whole potential serial killer thing come in? Well, even after Decca was arrested and found guilty, the investigators in three other cases announced that she was the main suspect for at least three other murders, though those investigations are still ongoing. The exact reasons Detective Black linked Santino's case with Decca's aren't fully known, but I would have to guess that it has to do with time, location, and things like that being factors. And it's important to note that Detective Black is the only one who has been talking openly about the potential link. Even in the most recent updates, the Colorado Springs Police have declined to comment on whether

• 18:38Annie Elise?

  or not they believe that the cases are linked due to it being an ongoing investigation, which, here are my thoughts. One, the claim could be completely bogus. We really don't know because we don't know all the details. There could be a slew of evidence, or the detectives could have simply thought that it fit because of the timing and the location being right. Two, maybe the detective was on to something, but the investigators don't want to share that information just yet, because it could potentially put Santino in a pretty bad light. See, when Decca killed her first victim, the motive that was discussed in court was that she caught him talking to a minor. And as the prosecution worded it, "Decca had an unrestrained hatred for anybody who would molest a child." Now, of course, Santino was never charged with anything like that. I want to make that extremely

• 19:21Annie Elise?

  clear. But it does turn out that he did have a pretty lengthy history with law enforcement, ranging from 2013 all the way to 2021. Some of those cases involved one where he pleaded guilty to felony menacing and an assault charge that was also later dropped. So maybe Decca considered herself some sort of, I don't know, vigilante? Those three other murder victims whose cases she's also a suspect in could have also had, you know, A similar colorful background and maybe that was the link that put them all together. Both law enforcement as well as Santino's family declined to comment or deny anything because the investigation is still ongoing. So who really knows? All I know is that I was not at all expecting how deep and dark this case potentially could be when I clicked on an article about a John Doe being identified. And now the fact that

• 20:06Annie Elise?

  he could be linked to a female serial killer and all of these things, it just is so beyond weird, especially when there's not really a motive at play. I don't know. So I'm curious to know what you guys think. Let me know, but it's one that I'm going to follow up on because again, it's just, it's piqued my curiosity. Now, moving into this next case, this is one that I don't know if you could say it was like ripped out a Gossip Girl or like one of these like bougie boarding school type shows, reality or otherwise, but teachers have now been arrested for throwing an underage rager party. And let me just tell you, all the schools I went to, no teacher was ever throwing us any party. I did have some inappropriate teachers. I will say that. None of them who would throw us a party, but I did have one teacher, I'm not going to say his name, who let me literally change

• 20:50Annie Elise?

  my grade. It was in sixth grade. It was like the software where they type in the grades and like it populates your grade. And like, we were watching a movie in class one day and he literally let me change my scores. And when I think back on it now, I think about how creepy that is and how weird it is. Like, why would you like favor a young girl in sixth grade and let her do that? And that, that's a whole other host of issues we have to talk about, but never did I have anybody throwing me a party. Now, I also have to say, as bizarre as this case is, it also is one of those where it's like the world's dumbest criminal TV shows because it is so wild. So on January 24th, 47-year-old Elizabeth Hill Brodigan, who was the principal of Roosevelt Elementary School in Cocoa Beach, Florida, along with 45-year-old third grade teacher Carly Anderson, were both arrested

• 21:35Annie Elise?

  for throwing a gigantic party that was filled to the brim with minors. You heard that correctly, minors. Now, their charges differed a little bit since one of them actually hosted the party at their house and the other one was just there to, you know, get drunk and provide, I don't know, moral support, I guess, who knows? But the charges ranged from child Neglect, contributing to the delinquency of a minor, hosting an open house party, and delinquency of a minor. The party was held on Sunday, the 19th, and I'm assuming since the school had MLK Day off that Monday, that's why it was being held, and it was held at Elizabeth's house. Now, maybe the most insane part of all of it is that this wasn't just some small trusted group of kids.

• 22:18Annie Elise?

  There were apparently 100 kids at this house at one point. Their ages ranged from 13 years old to 17 years old. And this party even had a theme, which it's like, the audacity and irony of it all is just so stupid to me, but the theme was called "White Lie." It was the White Lie Party. Now, those parties are typically reserved for colleges, for frats, for sororities, not literal 13-year-olds. The whole premise is to show up to the party wearing a white t-shirt with like a blatant "lie about yourself" written in Sharpie on the t-shirt. And just the fact that there was a theme, it shows how much thought and preparation was put into this party.

• 22:59Annie Elise?

  And as if this isn't already insane enough, the teachers not only hosted the party, but they provided the alcohol, and they were even getting drunk with the kids. They were apparently taking all the precautions to not get caught too. They were turning off all of the outside lights at the house, so that I guess they wouldn't look, you know, super conspicuous. They even had some of the teenagers call in a fake 911 call to try to get cops further away from the house. The call claimed that someone at a local skate park was holding people at gunpoint, and that people were even shooting their weapons, which, like, hello, that is such a serious thing to call in. I can't believe that two adults, let alone adults who are well in their 50s or on their way to 50, and both teaching in administrative positions, would recommend doing something like that.

• 23:44Annie Elise?

  I mean, I keep saying it's insane, I know, but honestly, it's the only way I know how to describe it. So, obviously, the party got busted, but not before doing its fair share of damage to everybody involved. One kid got a DUI at a nearby traffic stop. Another kid was found on the front lawn and needed medical attention because they were so drunk and so blacked out and out of it. And I don't think that I even need to go on a whole rant of just how irresponsible this all was on the teacher's part, and how scary it was for the parents and the family members of the kids to like, learn about what was happening, but it is horrifying. Take a listen.

• 24:16Speaker 02

  They're the most precious things to you, your children, and you're trying to raise them well, and then they have this influence in their life. It's, you know, it's, it just breaks my heart. These kids, they trust teachers, they trust the administrators, and when you have someone betray that trust and lead these kids down a path like that, it's just, it's sad and scary all at the same time.

• 24:40Annie Elise?

  Like, did they not think these kinds of things could happen? Clearly, they didn't even have rules about not driving, or, you know, we're watching to make sure everyone was safe and doing okay. They were probably too busy playing beer pong themselves to even care. And one of the things I want to know, too, is if the teachers also wore the white lie t-shirts, because I just would be curious to see, like, how much are they trying to relate to these students? And like, it just feels so gross to me. Now, the one thing we don't know so far is the connection between the teachers and the kids, because both were working at the elementary school, and like I said, the kids were at least 13 years or older, which is awful, 100%. Don't get me wrong, but my reason for bringing that up is like, maybe one of them, or even both of them, had kids at the party, maybe

• 25:23Annie Elise?

  that was the connection. I mean, I would think that you would have to have a close connection to someone who wanted the party thrown to agree to something as stupid as that, but who knows? Like, could it have been like, oh, my niece wants to have a party, she goes to the school I teach at, or I'm the principal at, let all of her friends come over, we'll host the party. But it still is so irresponsible and reckless and stupid. So, so far, they've both been released on a scarily low bail. Carly's being just $3,000, and Elizabeth being $3,500. Their teaching careers are no doubt completely over, as they should be, and I can't help but wonder if they really thought the risk was worth the night of partying with a bunch of teenagers. Like, make it make sense. Who wants to party with a bunch of teenagers, anyway? Who wants to go to town with a guy in a rowboat, as

• 26:07Annie Elise?

  that's a quote my sister and I say to each other all the time, it's from Rowan and Michelle, but like, who wants to party with a bunch of teenagers, anyway, right? Unless you're a creep, unlike a groomer, but it's disgusting. Now, speaking of like, people who I just cannot make sense of, and I just like, don't understand humanity, this next case is about a landlord who shot their tenant over A thermostat dispute. Literally, that's what happened. Once again, a crazy case out of Florida. This specific case happened in Westchester, which is about 10 miles from downtown Miami. So on Saturday, January 25th, 37-year-old Adam Anson was arrested and charged with the murder of his rental tenant, 57-year-old Carlos Gonzalez. The arrest report stated that Adam went to Carlos's apartment, which is a building

• 26:51Annie Elise?

  next to his house on the same property, and he was holding a gun and banging on the windows, telling Carlos to let him in. Now, the reason for this was apparently because Adam wanted to come inside the apartment and change the thermostat. I'm gonna just go out on a limb and guess that the utility bill came in and it was higher than Adam would have liked for it to have been? I don't know. I mean, I know that sounds like I'm making a joke out of it, but genuinely, that is my only reasonable guess. The arrest report said that Carlos opened the door and let Adam come in, but Adam was still mad at whatever it was that originally set him off. So he began punching Carlos, completely unprovoked, and then dragged him outside to the backyard and shot him multiple times in the head. Which, that literally sounds made up, but that is real. That's what the arrest report says.

• 27:35Annie Elise?

  And what sounds even more made up is the fact that Adam left Carlos's body in the backyard, went back inside the apartment, changed the thermostat, then decided to go ahead and call the police on himself. Which, I don't know, if it was because of a discrepancy on the utility bill, that bill must have been in like the tens of thousands of dollars? Not even that that amount would justify killing somebody, but like, what is going on here? This may go down in history as the most insane reaction I have ever heard of. During the initial 911 call, Adam tried to say that Carlos had come after him first and that he only shot him in self-defense. But I guess this has since been debunked. Now, whether that was through evidence or if Adam eventually confessed, I'm not 100% sure.

• 28:19Annie Elise?

  Adam is currently facing charges of second-degree murder and burglary with armed assault or battery. And unfortunately, Carlos was unable to survive his injuries, and he was pronounced dead at the local hospital. It's just wild. I don't get people's reactions sometimes. We hear some of the most bizarre things, right? And like, this over a thermostat?

• 28:40Annie Elise?

  I don't even know. I'm like, I know, I'm staring blankly. I don't even know what to make of this. It is so insane and unhinged to me. Now, we're going to take a really, really quick micro nano break to hear from our sponsor. Thank you for understanding. Sponsors are essential to keeping this podcast free. And then we are going to be back to talk all things Brian Koberger, the Idaho four case, Gabby Petito, the documentary and more. So we'll be right back.

• 29:09Annie Elise?

  It's officially holiday season, which also means it's hosting season, right? So it's time where you look around, you notice things if you're like me, where like, oh, that little area could use a little bit of a refresh or, ooh, I think I need a little bit more decorating over in this corner. And for all things hosting, Wayfair delivers high quality, customer trusted products for your home so that you can host and celebrate without having any of the stress. Wayfair helps you create a home that stands up to real life with thousands of products across every style and budget, plus trusted reviews that make shopping just way easier. Think colorful serving bowls, flameless votive candles, a holiday embroidered cotton napkin set, just the little touches that make everything feel a bit more elevated and cozy.

• 29:55Annie Elise?

  For me, it's my turn to host this year. So I already knew, looking around, I'm like, okay, my dishes are not going to cut it. My napkins aren't going to cut it. So I was able to get actual holiday dishes at a great value, cute embroidered napkins. I got an amazing net new like wood cutting board that you can leave out on the counter. That's decorative too. So many amazing things and the reviews really sold it for me. So when you're refreshing your home this holiday season, Wayfair delivers exactly what you need. Head to wayfair.com to shop all things home. That's W A Y F A I R dot com.

• 30:33Annie Elise?

  You guys know I am all about finding easy ways to get more nutrition into my day. Between recordings, school pickup, after-school activities, you name it. My schedule gets really busy. I definitely don't have time to like cook a meal. And so I love Kachava because I can just quickly grab a shake. It is so easy. And also tastes like a little delicious treat. With just two scoops, you're getting protein, fiber, greens, and so much more. And it's all in one delicious shake. Plus, what I love is there are no artificial flavors, colors, or sweeteners. And it is completely plant-based. So, I mean, hello, good for everybody. And can we talk about the flavors for a second? They have everything from chai and matcha to chocolate mint and even their new salted caramel,

• 31:17Annie Elise?

  which that has become my new favorite, especially in the morning. I know you're not supposed to have dessert in the morning, but for me, it feels like I am having a little sweet treat to start my day. And I think it's great when you're craving something sweet and salty, but for me, it's like a great way to start my morning routine. I love it. Embrace your salty side. Go to kachava.com and use code AE for 15% off your first order. That's kachava, K-A-C-H-A-V-A, dot com, code AE. Okay, so let's move into this next case now. And I want to talk to you about the Gabby Petito Netflix show that is coming out. Because it's something much shorter, but I do want to touch on it. And I know that it is absolutely just huge news for everybody involved in the true crime world. But just this past Monday, on January 27th,

• 32:02Annie Elise?

  Netflix announced the official date for the new and upcoming Gabby Petito docu-series. And even people who really aren't into true crime know of the Gabby Petito case, right? But if for some reason you have been living under a rock and have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about, here's the much more sped up version of it. In 2021, 22-year-old Gabby Petito went missing while she was on a cross-country road trip in her van with her boyfriend, also rumored fiance, Brian Laundrie. She was found shortly after being reported missing, and she was found in the Grand Teton National Park, and she had been strangled to death. A lot came out after her death, and it spiraled pretty much into what I would Describe as one of the most well-known true crime cases today. I mean, ranking up there with cases like Chris Watts, the Idaho Four, JonBenet,

• 32:47Annie Elise?

  those kinds of cases. It's like a household name. Everyone has at least heard of her name, even if they know nothing about the case. And a lot of its fame and notoriety had to do with the fact that Gabby had a pretty big following on both Instagram and YouTube. She would document their journeys and she would share with the world what seemed to be a really happy, loving couple.

• 33:06Speaker 03

  Hello, hello, and good morning. It is really nice and sunny today. It's only 10 o'clock in the morning, but it rained all afternoon yesterday. So me and Brian just got up and got ready, made the bed in the tent, set up. I think our plan for today is to just hang out here in the tent.

• 33:40Speaker 03

  Brian's stretching, doing some morning yoga.

• 33:45Annie Elise?

  The series is titled American Murder: Gabby Petito, and it's set to be released on February 17th, 2025. Just from the teasers, it seems like we're going to be diving into Gabby and Brian's relationship, also their van life, and of course, the infamous body cam footage from right before Gabby's death. And it's split into a three-part docu-series. The Netflix press release described what to expect with the series, saying, "While taking viewers on a journey through Gabby and Brian's final days together, the series will unveil the tragic reality behind their insta-perfect life, and it will reveal painful moments where their story might have taken a different turn." The docu-series also promises never-before-seen footage and exclusive interviews.

• 34:26Annie Elise?

  And I, for one, am very eager to see what this series has to offer, or even how it differs from the documentaries that are already out there and have been done about Gabby. But her story is so incredibly powerful and heartbreaking, because when we saw that body cam footage in hindsight... It was very clear, at least in my opinion, what the situation was and the fact that they separated them, but like Brian, I think got off a little too scot-free. And had he not, I think that the situation would have been handled and ended very differently. And it's like, you can always Monday morning quarterback. I get that, right? But it's just so sad. And her parents have been so outspoken about Gabby. They have the Gabby Petito Foundation and they

• 35:10Annie Elise?

  really have helped so many other families and victims ever since Gabby's passing. And I just hope the dirty laundries never can go anywhere without feeling like everybody's eyes are on them and judging them. And I'm talking about Brian Laundrie's parents because I think they are truly some of the most scum of the earth, human beings. Roberta, and I forget the dad's name, but like I call them the dirty laundries because I think they are dirty and grimy and disgusting. And I just hope that they can never even go into a grocery store without feeling the weight of their decisions in protecting their son and people's eyes and judgment staring at them. Because I think as a parent and as a human, what they did to Gabby's family was

• 35:51Annie Elise?

  just horrendous, horrible. So I just went off on a spiral. I know, I'm very sorry about that. But I'm excited to watch this docu-series. Let me know if you guys are gonna watch it too. Now, this next case is kind of like a throwback of nostalgia for me a little bit. I don't know if any of you guys ever watched VH1's Mob Wives with like Drida and Renee, was it Renee? Yeah, I think it was Renee's Renee. And like all of the Mob Wives, but this is a case that kind of throws back a little bit to that. Because one of the Mob Wives, Natalie, was reported missing, but then later found. And some people are wondering, was this a Hannah Kobayashi 2.0? So like I said, it's definitely a case that caught my eye, especially after

• 36:32Annie Elise?

  all the chaos that we got into with the Hannah Kobayashi case these past few months. Although, it's nowhere near as crazy, I'll give you that. But 44-year-old Natalie, or Nat D., who is better known for her time on season five of the VH1 show Mob Wives, was reported missing on January 21st, 2025.

• 36:50Speaker 04

  What did she say to him? She said to him, "Your girlfriend, I don't know why she wants to hang out with Drida, Renee, Karen. They're all sea hags. These girls are just old and they're all washed up." I'm not in this [bleep] ass, Drida's ass, no one's ass. I don't [bleep] ass, I don't kiss ass, just not my twist. But, this is not about winning Drita over. I like her. I actually think she's a cool chick. I just want to know what the [bleep] is going on in her mind to want to hang out with this [bleep] bum.

• 37:17Annie Elise?

  Now, the reason this immediately stuck out to me so much is because it's extremely reminiscent of the Hannah case, at least in the very beginning, before all the crazy things started to come out about Hannah. So, let's get into what all has happened so far. Natalie's friends and family were very quick to talk to the media, reporting that, leading up to her disappearance, she had apparently been acting very weird and just all around not normal or like herself. Concerns for Natalie's whereabouts and overall well-being first started a few weeks ago on January 5th, when she never boarded either one of her separate two flights home to Florida. From the jump, there was a lot of confusion. I mean, her family thought that she was in Philadelphia, that she'd be flying home from there, but then, after reporting her missing last Tuesday, the police found records of her staying in a hotel in Las Vegas, which

• 38:00Annie Elise?

  I obviously don't need to say is a huge jump away from Philly, where her family thought that she was. And a lot of other smaller details, like how they discovered this and how long Natalie stayed, where she stayed, or exactly what dates she stayed, they haven't been released. All we know is pretty much the bare minimum. One of her close friends, who is only known in the media right now as Ben, claims that four days before she missed her flight, Natalie messaged him on WhatsApp and she was asking for money for a plane ticket from Vegas back to Florida. And that was the flight that she ended up missing on the 5th. So, even though her family had no idea that she was ever even in Vegas, apparently, she had made it clear to her friend that that's where she was. It's still not known if she told him why she was there, who she was with, or anything like that, but it shows that she was at least there for multiple weeks before her family

• 38:45Annie Elise?

  even realized it. Now, being in Vegas in and of itself was confusing, and it was terrifying for her friends and family, because it just did not make any sense to them. As far as they knew, she didn't even know anybody who lived in Vegas. So, it's not like they could just write it off as her going to stay with a friend and, you know, keep things more low-key. They claimed that Natalie also wasn't one to really keep things private. If she was planning on going somewhere, they would know about it. Not to mention, she had told them that she was coming back from Philly, so she had been lying to them about where she was that whole time. Why she told Ben the truth and not her family. I don't really know. Now, it's important to note that Natalie didn't completely cut off contact with everyone after she missed her flight on the 5th, which it was more than likely why there was such a big gap in between then and when she was actually reported missing.

• 39:30Annie Elise?

  Her mom Denise had a really short FaceTime call with her the week before she reported her missing, and Denise said that the call all happened just so fast. She at least saw Natalie's face and heard her talking to know that she was alive, but that didn't immediately mean that she thought that she was both alive and well. Denise said that she was acting, quote, "nervous and stressed," and what that entailed exactly, I'm not sure, but you can just tell when your friend or family member is nervous or distressed. I mean, I know the type. You can tell when their behavior is off. It's easy to tell when they're not acting right. She also noted that she couldn't tell if she was alone or not. So Denise was asking her all of these questions, like, "Where are you? Why didn't you come home?" That sort of thing. And instead of answering, Natalie immediately hung up, clearly not wanting to give any solid answers.

• 40:14Annie Elise?

  Although, we don't know if that was the exact same time that she was staying at the hotel in Vegas, but we do know that it was at least that same week. Now, after that weird interaction, Denise kept calling both of her cellphones, but Natalie never answered again. It seemed like her phone had either died or had been shut off, and I'm sure that that made Denise feel even more panicked. When asked about how Natalie had been acting in the months leading up to her disappearance, Denise said that she noticed that Natalie had been acting, which what she described as a distant. Again, we don't know exactly what that means or really even entails, so did she see her family less, talk to them less? I don't know, but I would assume so. On the same day that she was reported missing, the Las Vegas Police Department confirmed that a missing persons report had been taken for Natalie and that a search had begun.

• 40:57Annie Elise?

  But get this, though: later that day, Natalie apparently called Denise and told her that she was safe, that everything was fine, not to worry. Denise says she claimed that she wasn't hurt or anything like that, but her purse, along with her IDs, had been stolen. So not long after Denise came forward, the Las Vegas Police Department issued a statement that was pretty short, but basically said, "Case is closed, they're no longer looking for her," all of the things. Now, I guess some of my initial thoughts are, if her purse was stolen and she had no money and no IDs, how'd she get a hotel room? Why was she in Vegas when her family thought she was in Philly? How did she call so quickly after being reported as missing? Why was she acting weird and not telling Denise where she was if the only issue was that somebody stole her purse? All of those questions are ones that I just can't help but continue to wonder about.

• 41:42Annie Elise?

  And there's this complicated line, right? Between respecting an adult who has voluntarily gone missing, if you will, and worrying for an adult who maybe is in an unsafe situation or maybe is being controlled. The fact that she was found safe doesn't diminish all of the other weird things that were weird enough for her friends and family to make notable to the public either. So while it seems like maybe this was all just one big misunderstanding and she just kind of wanted to like have this chill unplugged vacation that then got ruined by a petty theft crime, it's all still just really weird. So I'm curious if more information's gonna come out? If this will be the last that we're hearing about it? What the truth really is? Part of me also wondered in my mind, and this is 1,000% just me speculating,

• 42:24Annie Elise?

  but even though she's an adult, part of me wondered, was she in Vegas to do some sort of like escort work? Or something like that? And that she was embarrassed or shy about it or wanted to keep it private? And that's why she didn't tell her family? I don't really know, so we'll see. But it was something that caught my eye, so you guys are my best friends and I just wanted to come on here and talk with my best friends about it, okay? Sue me, sue me! All right, now let's talk about Brian Koberger and all of the Idaho 4 updates and what's going on in Idaho as we're all gearing up, waiting for this trial to happen. So recently, there have been some pretty interesting updates when it comes to Brian Koberger's upcoming August 2025 trial. His defense team has definitely been putting in overtime these past few weeks, I will say that much. And on January 23rd, his defense team went before a judge with new motions.

• 43:09Annie Elise?

  And what they were asking for could honestly really make or break the case against him. His team claimed that the majority of the evidence against him was from, quote, "an unconstitutional genetic investigation process." And they were arguing that it directly went against his Fourth Amendment rights. The evidence that they're referring to specifically came from something that is called investigative genetic genealogy, or IGG. But IGG is the same thing that got the Golden State Killer caught all those years later. Put it in much more simpler terms. It's used whenever DNA is found at a crime scene and when that DNA doesn't match anything in the standard law enforcement database from previous crimes committed. So instead, they start going into the genetic databases like 23andMe, answerstreamy, you

• 43:53Annie Elise?

  know, youandme.com, that sort of thing. And in this case, specifically, the IgG was used to find, quote, "touch evidence" or "trace evidence" on that knife sheath that was left behind at the crime scene of the Idaho four murders. And it was used to find Brian as a possible suspect in the case.

• 44:10Speaker 05

  I'm trying to understand the legal argument and how this is different from, example, latent fingerprints.

• 44:15Speaker 06

  Well, Your Honor, I think that things like latent fingerprints and like CODIS, there's statutes about CODIS in Idaho, about what's allowed in CODIS. This is a different search. This isn't an STR search. That's what happens in CODIS. This is a different search.

• 44:34Speaker 05

  So I'm going now to, I'm sorry, the constitutionality of using the DNA that was allegedly on the knife sheath. And, because I understand your argument is two-fold. Your client complains that a search was done of databases of other people to determine whether or not any of them might be related to the person who left the DNA on the knife sheath. That's thing one. Thing two is an objection to the law enforcement searching the DNA by testing it and getting a profile from the knife sheath without a warrant.

• 45:19Speaker 05

  My question goes to that latter point, understanding the basis for that, because I can't find any case law that would support that idea.

• 45:31Speaker 05

  That somehow a warrant would be needed for DNA left at a crime scene.

• 45:35Annie Elise?

  His lawyer argued that the IGG evidence then led to a string of other pieces of evidence, which should all be thrown out if the IGG evidence is thrown out. These are things like his DNA being taken from the garbage, his phone records, surveillance of his parents' home, I mean, the list goes on. And basically, they have a problem with pretty much everything against him, and they're trying to get it all thrown out. And that wasn't all that they asked for, though. His defense team argued that once he was identified as a potential suspect, they believe that law enforcement purposefully omitted crucial evidence when getting the search warrant for his apartment, also the one for his parents' house, his car, his cellphone, and his DNA. Because of that, they want all of that evidence thrown out as well.

• 46:18Annie Elise?

  They even went as far as saying that the search warrants were, quote, "tainted with police misconduct." The two-day hearing began last Thursday and were partially closed to the public, to the judge's fear of information getting back to the potential jurors that are set to be selected in July. Because of that, we don't know a whole lot of the nitty-gritty details of what exactly his team argued. At first, the media didn't have any information on what the whole police misconduct argument was all about, but now it's being reported that it has to do with the investigator's interview with the surviving roommate. His defense team allegedly claimed that the roommate told the authorities that she had been drinking on the night of the murders, but that law enforcement didn't disclose that crucial information to the judge. They claimed that the surviving roommate's exact statement was, "I don't know any of it.

• 47:03Annie Elise?

  Like, half this stuff, I don't know if it was a dream or if it's real." Now, even though the hearing was last week, there hasn't been any announcement as far as what the judge's ruling is as of this recording. However, and maybe I'm reading the room wrong, this judge didn't really seem very persuaded by what Brian's defense team was saying. Not really at all. There were times he was, like, rubbing his face, shaking his head. He even literally was laughing out loud at the absurdity of it all.

• 47:27Speaker 06

  Senator, I may not always agree with the Idaho Supreme Court on everything.

• 47:31Speaker 05

  But I have to follow what they say.

• 47:33Speaker 06

  But I have to make a record when I don't agree.

• 47:37Speaker 05

  I appreciate that. I'm just trying to make sure we're talking about the same thing.

• 47:40Speaker 06

  And I have to distinguish the case as best I can, as well. And I think it is different when you have the FBI telling the trash man what to do. I'll move on to something else. I want to talk about now where Mr. Nice started, that Department of Justice interim policy, and he read you the first footnote. And I would just direct the court to pages six and seven in that. Brian's car and the court's question, good question. Does that mean, could it mean there's more than one person? The answer to that is, or it could mean it's not Brian, because his car's got nothing in it, and there were only 13 minutes to do this.

• 48:25Speaker 06

  The magistrate didn't get to know that.

• 48:26Speaker 05

  In fact, his DNA is still on the knife sheet, though. That's the problem, counsel, for probable cause purposes.

• 48:34Speaker 06

  If that's the only thing she's told, I can see why she'd find probable cause. It's the other things that are withheld that create a context around it. I think the purpose of Frank's is to ask this very question. This is a question. What do we want to do with our criminal justice system? Do we want to have one thing with no context around it when there's this other context that really matters?

• 48:58Speaker 05

  According to Frank's standard, which is even if you add that stuff, does that take away probable cause, counsel?

• 49:02Annie Elise?

  And again, maybe I'm just interpreting what I'm seeing and what I'm hearing, and it's wrong. I don't know. Even though it's pretty scary to imagine all of this evidence against Brian potentially being thrown out, it is pretty common for these kinds of things to happen pre-trial. So this isn't anything that we haven't seen before. His defense is going to do everything possible to get as much as possible thrown out. And I would imagine that between now and August, there will be even more updates like this one. So stay tuned. We don't know what's happening here. I know there are a lot of people who are in like the Brian Koberger is innocent camp. And while I personally don't quite sit there myself, I understand why. So I think we all just have to wait and see how this trial shakes out. But it is a case we have been following very closely for several years. And for those of you who are unfamiliar with this case,

• 49:47Annie Elise?

  although I'm sure most of you have heard about it, at least in some capacity by now, I will link the deep dive. But it was the horrific quadruple murder of the four Idaho students in the fall a couple of years ago. And it was just absolutely barbaric. So whether it's Brian or somebody else responsible, I just hope that these kids and their families get the justice. And they deserve, and my personal opinion. Is that Brian is the guy and that they got their guy, but I could be wrong. We'll see. So that's what we've got this week for headline highlights, guys. I know it was a longer episode than usual, but we just had so much to talk about with each other. Now, as a reminder, I'll be back on the mic on Monday morning with a deep dive into an all-new case. That's over on the podcast and then later in the week I'll be on YouTube.

• 50:29Annie Elise?

  But if you feel like you need even more content to binge going into your weekend because your favorite creators or podcasters aren't uploading, or you've just, you know, you've tapped into everything and you've run out of things to listen to. Every single Friday, I put out a bonus episode and it's like a mini case deep dive. And you can get access to that either on Patreon, which is patreon.com/annieleese, or over on Apple Podcasts. And the episode that is coming out this Friday is kind of a wild one where the 911 call blew the whole case wide open. But what was so unsettling and unnerving was that the 911 call came from a five-year-old little girl. And it just kind of like, again, blew the case wide open. It's incredibly frustrating too, because it involves a friend, a family. It's just disgusting.

• 51:14Annie Elise?

  So you can take a listen to that. And if you sign up for those bonus episodes that we release every Friday, right now you'll tap into, I think we have like 75 episodes uploaded there right now. So you will have like a library of content to binge. But if that's not your jam, and if you don't want to do that, that's totally fine too. I will be back with you on the mic Monday for an all-new deep dive. All right. Thank you guys so much for tuning in to today's episode of Headline Highlights. And until I talk with you again, be nice, don't kill people, don't join any cults, just get a divorce and just be a good human. All right. Bye.