Chloe Kelly: “I was riddled with anxiety!” My experience with hair loss and panic attacks

Footballer Chloe Kelly has played a huge part in the Lioness’ immense success over the last few years, but severe anxiety has meant she’s often had to put on a brave face in public. In this chat with Fearne, Chloe opens up for the first time about how emotional stress led to hair loss, and why being sick often felt like the only way to release the anxiety. She talks through the work she’s done with a psychiatrist to break this habit, and the actions her family and friends took that helped bring her out of this dark place. Fearne and Chloe also explore how taking yourself out of an environment that isn’t good for you – whether that’s a workplace, relationship, or particular location – can change your mental health. If you liked this episode of Happy Place, you might also like: Leah Williamson https://pod.fo/e/26e9fe Mary Earps https://pod.fo/e/2f1f1f Sarina Wiegman https://pod.fo/e/1ff134 Child on the line is a three-part documentary podcast series celebrating the Volunteer Counsellors of Childline, and the brave children & young people who contact the helpline service. Listen here: https://www.childonthelinepodcast.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Hi, I'm Natalie Dormer and I'm proud to be an ambassador for Childline. This year, Childline turns 40. To mark it, I've made Child on the Line, a three-part documentary podcast. We hear why children needed a helpline in 1986, how it was built against the odds and the challenges children face today, from abuse and mental health to social media and AI. Search Child on the Line and listen wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:28Fearne Cotton?

  Hello, a huge welcome to Happy Place with me, Fern Cotton. This is the show that doesn't need you to keep putting on a brave face. Today, I'm chatting to Chloe Kelly.

• 0:39Speaker 02

  I went to see a specialist and she was amazing and she told me that I had alopecia. That was a tough time because you care about your appearance a lot. You care about, yeah, when I step onto the pitch, how I look. And I remember my first game at Arsenal, in the morning of the game, trying to cover my ball patches on either side of my head. And I was like, wow, I'm out of an environment where it's made me feel so low, but now I can see how it did affect me. And yeah, it wasn't a nice place.

• 1:11Fearne Cotton?

  Guys, as we are approaching Christmas, I am starting to run out of steam and wind down like an old dying battery. That's where I'm at. But quite happily, I weirdly love all of this time of year. You know, like some people go, oh, I'd love to go to the Caribbean or something like that. You couldn't pay me to go away right now. I love it getting dark at four, bring it on. I mean, if I can, the pyjamas are going on at five past. I love the excuse to sort of do nothing when it gets dark and just hibernate a bit. Like, I am so here for it. And also, because I'm a Virgo, I did all my Christmas shopping in November, like an absolute nerd. So I'm just sort of, I'm chilling.

• 1:54Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, I'm not chilling because I'm also working and I've got children, but do you know what I'm saying? Like, the pressure seems to be dwindling and I like that feeling. I am ready to bring out the mulled wine and the multi-box of chocolates and just guilt-free get stuck To all of it and watch Home Alone, which is the only must. It's a non-negotiable. I'll try and squeeze in the holiday too, but Home Alone one, if I haven't seen that by around this time, there's something seriously wrong. So that's where my head's at. And that's where I shall meet you today for this gorgeous episode of the podcast. This is a big one, guys. There's some exclusive stuff in this chat that I feel like, again, you know, I love doing this podcast,

• 2:39Fearne Cotton?

  but I feel honoured that our guest today felt like Happy Place was a safe space where she could talk about things that were very, very new to talk about. So Chloe, my God, it has been quite a year for her. She had an absolutely huge summer. She really was the woman of the Euros. As I say in this chat, when I watched the Euros this year and also in 2022, I had goosebumps over my whole body watching these extraordinary women achieve unbelievable things on the world stage. And I just felt such a fire in my belly about all of it. And I'm not necessarily a football

• 3:22Fearne Cotton?

  fan, but I will watch the Lionesses and I feel so deeply proud watching them. But there have also been some real lows behind the scenes for her too. In January, she left Man City to go to Arsenal. And from this chat, it sounds like a change in environment is exactly what Chloe needed for her mental health. We talked about just how low she got. She was losing her hair, having panic attacks, being sick, like all really scary stuff. And for a long time, she didn't want to accept how much she was suffering. So there are some really good lessons in here around acknowledging what you're going through and gently starting to galvanise and move through it. Also, maybe you're

• 4:05Fearne Cotton?

  someone who's trying to support someone you love for a rough time right now. It was so lovely to hear Chloe talk about the little gestures from her friends and family and husband that made a massive difference to her.

• 4:22Speaker 03

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• 4:36Speaker 04

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• 5:09Speaker 05

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• 5:42Fearne Cotton?

  All right, here we go. This is the show.

• 6:05Fearne Cotton?

  The door to properly shut.

• 6:06Speaker 02

  This is only my second podcast.

• 6:08Fearne Cotton?

  What? Wait, your first one was Jamie Lang?

• 6:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:11Fearne Cotton?

  I listened to that one.

• 6:12Speaker 02

  Before the wedding.

• 6:12Fearne Cotton?

  Newlyweds.

• 6:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, I enjoyed that actually.

• 6:15Fearne Cotton?

  It was so good.

• 6:16Speaker 02

  It was cool.

• 6:16Fearne Cotton?

  It's always so interesting to interview lionesses. We've had several of you on now and it's just been the most amazing cultural shift, seeing women's football get to its rightful place, for people to be talking about it en masse, for it to be mainstream, for young girls everywhere to be inspired in this way. It's just, it's a beautiful thing.

• 6:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's so special. I'm grateful for the position that we're in, the ones that came before us to to leave the shirt in a better place for us. And now our job is to to do the same for the future generations. But to be part of special teams is incredible. And to be led by an incredible manager in Serena. But I think everyone sees the glitz and the glam and there's so much hard work and

• 6:59Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, yeah.

• 7:00Speaker 02

  and sweat and tears that go into it. So, yeah, I think it's it's great to see the the rewards now and inspiring so many, not just young girls, but young boys as well. And really changing the mindset and a shift in culture for how people see women's sport and women's football. And I think that's the biggest thing. It's it's a shift in women's sport right now.

• 7:19Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 7:20Speaker 02

  Seeing what the Red Rose has done this summer was so special as well. So I think it's a that women's sport is on the up and we can really celebrate together. Women doing great things.

• 7:29Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I love it. I mean, it is on the up, but there is still disparity, you know, men's football is still overly celebrated and watched. Do you feel, is there a, is there an anger there? Is there a resentment there? Or are you just happy to see that you're on the ascent?

• 7:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure. I enjoy watching men's football too. I think it's incredible to learn from from the guys as well. And I think they celebrate our our success too. So I think it's great that we can have alignment together. And I think within sport, you just you do your job and you want to do well. And now we have so much success. And I think in 22, the success allowed us to have a voice within society and we changed the mindset of so many. But also, we allowed girls to have more opportunities in school, in PE lessons. And I think that was an opportunity for us to use our voice after having such success. Because we probably didn't have that voice previously, but hosting the tournament was incredible to be able to use that voice.

• 8:29Speaker 02

  And then from then on, I think it was a change in mindset, a shift in that. And being able to be part of that was so special. And from then on, it was just, it felt like we we were untouchable as lionesses. Because actually, we'd done something in, not just in sport. But in life that we can be proud of.

• 8:49Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I mean, that that summer was just, it was such a moment. We had Leah on not that long ago. And I was talking about this, you know, I I sort of grew up with football being very much in my, you know, in my world. My dad and brother were football mad. So it's always kind of been there, but it was never kind of for, it didn't feel like it was for me. I played a little bit at school.

• 9:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:10Fearne Cotton?

  Teeny, teeny bit. But then seeing the Euros in twenty twenty two and watching just how skillful you all were, how how gracious you all were about that win and how you just, how you moved through that whole tournament was so inspiring. And that final, that final game, I had goosebumps all over. It felt like this kind of primal reaction I was having to watching the game. Just seeing women excel and on a global platform like that. It was just the most exceptional moment.

• 9:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was so special. I think hosting the tournament and we blocked everything out whilst in tournaments. So you don't really see the the craziness of the tournament. And I think coming out of it, it was, wow, like, we've changed something here. And the final was probably that pinch me moment of going to Wembley, selling out Wembley and seeing people on the Wembley steps pre-game and welcoming us to the stadium. I think that was so special for us. And I think that was an eye of wow. Like, we we've changed the the sport now and we're able to fill Wembley.

• 10:21Speaker 02

  And I think that was a real special moment for all of us. But I think what it done was shift mindsets of so many that maybe might not have watched a game before or wasn't bothered about the game. But also people that didn't care, but also cared that we were successful. They didn't care enough that we were doing great. They just cared that, yeah, women here are successful. And it shifted mindsets in terms of there's some people that actually, well, yeah, they are here to stay. But then I think it frustrated many people in terms of. Yeah, it was seeing women do well. Some people don't like that.

• 10:58Fearne Cotton?

  Yes, well, we know that in this world that we live in. Hence why I think the people that are supporting you, women, are just like, come on, you've got this. And also to score the winning goal. I mean, how do you deal and process with a high like that? And then coming down the other side of it? Because there's always a down at the other side of a big high.

• 11:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think for me, pre the Euros, I was injured for 11 months. So my mindset was I want to be at the tournament. So to be there was incredible. I fought so hard to get there back from my injury, an ACL injury, which is so tough. So to be out for 11 months and set your goal on something that seems so far away, just to be at the Euros was an absolute honour. But to then step onto the pitch, every time you represent your country, it's it's a huge honour and you step on with such pride. So to go on the pitch at Wembley and I just wanted to win so badly. I'm a really bad loser, so I was just like, I just want to win.

• 12:01Speaker 02

  And yeah, I remember we win a corner and I say to Lauren Hemm, like, let's make this count. And my big toe, I remember just swinging for it, missing the first one and then poking my toe to it and a whole whirlwind of emotions, not just scoring against Germany in the Euro final, but actually like feeling like I've achieved something in terms of back from my injury. And yeah, I felt so much emotion in that moment and to be part of a special team that went on to inspire so many. It was a proud moment. And to see my family in the stands when I celebrated, I think everything just seemed like a pinch me moment, like, wake up, Chloe.

• 12:46Fearne Cotton?

  I bet. But I mean, there have been so many now. You went straight into the World Cup pretty soon after that. And you're in the finals again as the runners up in the World Cup. How do you sustain? Like you were saying there, you keep so focused during a tournament like that. And they're lengthy, certainly when you get to the final, you know, you are in this for the long haul. How do you keep that level of focus and discipline? Does it become sort of more tedious or tiring as you get through the tournament?

• 13:12Speaker 02

  I think the environment that we create helps you to just stay focused throughout and switch off as well.

• 13:19Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 13:19Speaker 02

  We had a lot of time in that 22 Euros. We was going out on boats along Kingston, along the Thames and I think just going for walks. And then it was Covid, so we wasn't allowed out too much after that. We had to stay in our bubble, but we enjoyed each other's company so much. We, we had like a basketball machine that you see in like the arcades. So we had that in there. The girls were watching Love Island. So we enjoyed each other's company a lot. And then to go on the pitch, then it was just do your job. Like we train hard, we train well. And the finishers group, as you call it, the ones that weren't starting the games, we had a really good group of, we'd go out and train and work hard and we'd

• 14:01Speaker 02

  enjoy that competitive side so that when we can go, go on the pitch, we're all ready, we're all ready for a moment. So I think that was really important throughout tournaments, just staying ready for a moment that you're called upon. And we was all able to do that as, as the finishers. And I think every tournament, that's what Serena's able to do, get the finishers to be in a really good place when the moment is called upon for them to do so. So.

• 14:25Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, well, it's got to be, it's got to be enjoyable and there's got to be switch off moments. Otherwise you would quite literally go mad or you would burn out. You can't sustain that. I mean, you would then sort of straight into the next Euro competition afterwards in 2025. Again, we all know that you won that again. And it was just the most incredible moment to see that happen. We had Serena on the podcast again, maybe a few years ago now, and she seems to lead in a very specific way that just works.

• 14:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:50Fearne Cotton?

  And it really works for you as a group. And it seems to be that her directness really helps and really works, but also the communication behind the scenes is really, really important. How have you found that dynamic?

• 15:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, an incredible coach. You can learn so much from Serena in terms of what she's achieved in her career, managerial career, previously coming to the, the England team, but also the staff members around her. We have so many great staff. Members that people probably don't see that background work that goes in, but the directness of her knowing your role, being able to play that role to the best of your ability. And I think that can change during tournaments. So it's knowing that. And I think that directness of knowing exactly what your job is to do, this is your strengths, this is what we can work on. And I think that's how, yeah, she gets the best out in the players, but especially me, just knowing that role is to do this.

• 15:47Speaker 02

  And when you come on, this is, and that can change. So knowing that, yeah, you're hungry for that, but I accept my role and I'll do that to the best of my ability. But I think Serena's a coach where you can pick up the phone and give her a call and, and have a chat. But also she's someone that will be very direct and not just tell you what you want to hear, but tell you what you need to hear. So I think as a coach that I've really enjoyed working on her and she's been successful. So I think she's, yeah, incredible manager.

• 16:15Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, you don't want people skirting around a big issue when it needs to be brought up or some, a truth that needs to be told. In an environment like this, you need to cut to the chase, I'm imagining, and just know the thing.

• 16:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. In tournament football especially, but I think she knows how to get the best out of her players. And you can see we all just enjoy playing under her and it's a good group of girls that they're incredible. I spend a lot of time in my room, to be honest, because I like to switch off away from football. I FaceTime home, I FaceTime my family and, and there's some girls that enjoy being with each other a lot more. So I think that dynamic allows us to, to be at our best.

• 16:52Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, it's so brilliant.

• 16:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:54Fearne Cotton?

  Did she also, was she instrumental in getting your confidence back? Because certainly after you've had a big injury, like an ACL injury, and you haven't played for a while. I'm imagining you lose confidence to some extent, like you know, you can play, you know, you're an international elite athlete. Like that is in your bones. But of course, when you've had time out or you're recovering, you, you're going back to square one in, in terms of levels of fitness perhaps, or. Or even integrating back into a team when you haven't played for a while. How was that sort of cultivating your confidence and getting it back on track?

• 17:27Speaker 02

  Honestly, I'd never played under Serena pre-injury, so she came in when I got injured. So I'd never played under her going into the summer. So selecting me for the tournament and selecting me in the pre-camps leading up to it gave me confidence because I'm like, okay, she believes in me, she believes in what I did previously to my injury and she believes that if I'm able to do that, then I'm in a good place. So just being selected gave me confidence. And then on out, I was able to learn from others in training, get fitter, get stronger throughout the summer.

• 18:06Speaker 02

  And I think that's allowed me to just improve as the tournament went on because I had more training in my legs. I was, I think my first game back in the team was April at City. So it was, I didn't have a lot of game time before the tournament. So it wasn't a point of trying to get confidence in games. I think my confidence came from just the selection. And then throughout the tournament, learning and being around your teammates gives you confidence. But also I think the competitive side, when you're in tournament, it's my first major tournament that I'd been at. It was like, no, I really want to do my best for the team. And you're representing your country at home Euros. You just want to do everything you can possible to win.

• 18:50Speaker 02

  So I think I was just a sponge. I remember sitting down with Jill and Demi and just trying to learn as much as we could, me and Lauren Hemp. And asking questions of Jill's first tournament, Demi's first tournament. And I think that was a real learning for us. We're learning as we go because it was our first tournament for the likes of like me and Lauren Hemp.

• 19:09Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, it's incredible. I mean, when you're playing football or indeed any sport at this level, of course, there are massive highs and massive lows. That goes with the territory. I'm pretty sure every sports person out there will have experienced both. It's just a given. And so much of it is mental, like we can focus on the physical aspects and. How you train and how your body will respond to that and how often you're playing. But actually, the mental side of it is a whole other bag of onions and something that I guess, again, dependent on the team around you, the manager, how you deal with the mental health side of it is going to be a bespoke situation, depending on what you're going through and

• 19:50Fearne Cotton?

  what you're feeling. And you've been pretty open about the downs and the times that you have struggled mentally.

• 19:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:56Fearne Cotton?

  Where are you at now, mental health wise?

• 19:58Speaker 02

  I'm feeling in a good place. I'm really happy. January was obviously a real turning point for me, coming back to London, coming back home to my family where I grew up and coming back to a club that I love in Arsenal. I'm forever grateful for the club. I'm forever grateful for Rene Slagers and giving me an opportunity to find happiness. But I'll be honest, I was in a really dark place and I was for a while, to be honest. I think January was a turning point for me. But yeah, I struggled a lot and I was riddled with anxiety. I didn't really want to go out a lot, any opportunity. I'd be like, Scott, can you go even go to

• 20:41Speaker 02

  the shops, go to Tesco? So I think that was tough for me and seeing myself, because I'm, I think I'm quite outgoing and, and things like that. But I think that's when you come away from sport and you're like, this is affecting my mental health, a game that I love so much, but actually it's affected me in so many other ways. That's when you're like, wow, like, I need to focus on myself here and being able to speak up in January and, and be able to come back to London and find happiness. I think for me, it was about to take a step away from the game that makes me so happy. But you look after your body, you look after your legs when you recover from training. But actually, that was fine.

• 21:25Speaker 02

  It was my head that was struggling. I was struggling mentally. So. Yeah, to take a step away from the game was what I needed, but it wasn't that. It was, I needed to take a step out of an environment and go to an environment which made me happy. So for sure, I, I feel in a good place now, but I'll never uh forget the times where I did struggle. And to struggle, I think it made me realise how good the highs felt as well. Um, so you appreciate them a lot more and the summer and the Champions League win. I think that allowed me to enjoy even more because I, I know how much mentally it took to get to that point. And the people around me that got me out of that.

• 22:08Speaker 02

  And yeah, I remember my mom coming up to Liverpool where I lived at the time. And she'd come up for a few days and she's like, no, I can't leave you. Like you're, you're not, you're not in a good place. And that for me, I was like, wow, like my mom's noticing it now. And I didn't wanna speak up. I remember just going in the dark, I loved sitting in the dark and I was like, no, this isn't okay. I just liked being by myself in quiet and sitting in the dark. Yeah. And I got to a point in my anxiety where I couldn't get off the bathroom floor because I was just being sick. I tried taking the dogs for a walk, going for a walk late at night, colouring in. And it wasn't like an eating disorder or anything like that.

• 22:51Speaker 02

  And it was like a vicious cycle because I didn't wanna feel anxious and I didn't wanna throw up. But when I felt anxious, I felt like I needed to be sick. And then when I started going to the psychiatrist, it was, this is the breathing that we can do. And these are the ways that we can get out of it together and journaling and things like that. So I think for me, it was learning so much about my body at the time. But also at times, there was one occasion I remember where Scott got me off the bathroom floor and put me onto the hallway. And he was like, if you're in the bathroom, you will throw up. So we're going into the hallway and you're not just gonna stay in here. So it was Scott literally just taking me out of the bathroom and being like, no, you're not going to do it.

• 23:35Speaker 02

  But it was, yeah, trying to journal what was going on and. That helped me a lot, but my psychiatrist at the time, it was like, we would log days where, yeah, it was a great day. And we did this one where it was, what did I do today? Why? And like, what, how did that make me feel? What does this say about me? And I think that allowed me to then be like, no, I did this well today and it's not. Because I was trying my best to get out of the anxiety. It wasn't like I was doing it from a bad point of view. It was just trying to break.

• 24:06Fearne Cotton?

  You're trying to cope.

• 24:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:08Fearne Cotton?

  You're trying to cope. Anxiety is so all consuming. You do whatever you can to cope. My situation is different, obviously, but I had bulimia throughout my twenties and it is an incredibly hard cycle to break. Or any habit that you know, isn't serving you, that is detrimental, but you're in it, you're in the thick of it. Breaking that cycle is really hard.

• 24:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's really hard. And when sport gets you to a place like that, it's like, why did I start the game? Because I loved it, but this is not what I love. I don't love how this is now making me feel. So I think that was a turning point for me of like, right, I need to remember why Chloe started playing football. It was for the great moments of winning, but it was also because I just loved having a ball at my feet and playing the game. But when it makes you feel a way that it's affecting your mental health, that's when I started to realise why. I need to make sure I'm looking after my mind here. But for me, it, it felt normal at the time.

• 25:07Speaker 02

  Until January, when I was like, right, this is, we can't carry on like this because I, I need to take a break. That was when I was like, right, this is a turning point. We need, we need to change something. Because everything we've done from here on out isn't working. And I remember talking to a psychiatrist and he was like, you need to make a change in your life. Because it's been going on for so long now that it's really affecting you. So that was from hearing those words. I was like, okay, like, right, we're changing something now. So that was, yeah, speaking out and speaking up for what I believed in. And even when I, yeah, changed environments, still recognizing, right, it wasn't just mentally now.

• 25:51Speaker 02

  I started to, well, I recognized it but beforehand, but wasn't accepting of. I started losing my hair and I was like, no, like, I don't think this is acceptable. And it carried on, it carried on. I remember saying to Scott, like, I feel like I've got a bald patch in my hair. And he was like, no, no, like, it looks fine to me. I feel like he was making me feel better. But I was like, no, Scott, it doesn't feel right. And then I noticed on the other side, another bald patch. And I was like, I think I've got alopecia. But I was too scared to speak to anyone about it. So I remember speaking to my mom and I'm like, mom, like, I've got a patches, it's starting to really get bigger. And she said, just speak to the

• 26:36Speaker 02

  doctors at the club and see what they can do. They'll be able to get you a cream or something. So I went to Doctor England and just said, like, my hair's like falling out, but it's also hurting, like, it's itching as well, like my head. And he said he'd try and find me some specialists. And I spoke with Arsenal and I didn't feel at the time like I'd settled enough into the club to to go with my problems. So I was trying to hide it. So I went to see a specialist and she was amazing. And she told me that I had alopecia. And I was like, wow, now I'm seeing the physical changes that it's had to my body, not just mentally, but physically.

• 27:19Speaker 02

  So that was a tough time because you care about your appearance a lot. You care about, yeah, when I step onto the pitch, how I look and

• 27:27Fearne Cotton?

  You want to feel confident.

• 27:27Speaker 02

  You want to feel confident. And yeah, I remember my first game at Arsenal, trying, in the morning of the game, trying to cover my bald patches on either side of my head. And yeah, that was a point. And I was like, wow, like, I'm out of an environment where it's made me feel so low. But now I can see how it did affect me. And it wasn't, yeah, it wasn't a nice place, but I feel in a good place now.

• 27:55Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I'm so glad. I mean, you have panic attacks around this time as well. That was something that was came with the anxiety.

• 28:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, panic attacks and having to call my mom. And I thought I was having a heart attack at times and not knowing what was going on with your body. But when my hair was coming out, I was just like, How am I gonna, I can remember Googling like, can I go fully bald? And that was the first question I asked the specialist. I was like, can I go? And she was like, looking at it now, like, no, but it takes three months. You can see the change for three months after the highest level of stress. So, yeah, it was for the next three months, like waiting and seeing and

• 28:38Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 28:39Speaker 02

  Putting creams. And now I look at my hair and my hair has grown back. And I remember on camp just now, I had my hair in a pony and I could see like my hair growing outwards in the pony. I'm like, oh, that's embarrassing. Need to get more hairspray on that. But I can see now, like, incredible things have happened since taking that step and taking that step forward. But I think for, for women that are in a dark place and anyone that's in a dark place, like speaking up and speaking out is really important. And my journey, I'm, I'm very grateful for the highs and lows that have shaped me and allowed me to sit in this room today and speak to yourself because actually I think those are the ones that you learn so much about yourself. I think

• 29:23Fearne Cotton?

  You do.

• 29:23Speaker 02

  My ACL injury, I learnt a lot about myself, but this definitely I learnt way more of how I control what I can and some things you can't control.

• 29:35Speaker 04

  Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of the best one yet. Behind every episode, there's research, emails, spreadsheets and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at goo.gle/workspacewithGemini. That's goo.gle.

• 30:07Speaker 05

  At Humana, our Medicare Advantage plans are easy to understand and easy on your wallet. Like offering more benefits than you'd get from original Medicare alone. And including dental, vision and hearing coverage in every plan. And the best part is, every plan has a $0 or low monthly plan premium, which makes it easier to save too. So this Medicare planning season, plan well with Humana. Learn more at gethumana.com. Humana is a Medicare Advantage HMO and PPO organisation with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.

• 30:38Speaker 06

  Hello, this is Susie Ruffel. And Maisie Adam. And together we host Big Kick Energy. Hey Mais, what is it? Only the best podcast ever. Yeah. A comedy entertainment podcast with a focus on all things women's football, all things hilarious, all things friendship. It's a laugh is what it is, Ruffel. Yeah, and a fair bit of gossiping too. Oh, and a lovely bit of gossip. Chow down on the gossip. Num, num, num, num, num. You can listen wherever you get your podcasts, just need to search Big Kick Energy. Grab a knife and fork and tuck in, baby.

• 31:11Fearne Cotton?

  But I think when you see, like you did, oh, I can make changes here. I can't, whether it is breaking habits and cycles that you know are not working for you, but equally moving for environments that aren't working for you. And that's a big step for anybody. It could be people listening to this who feel like that about their workplace, their marriage, the location they live in. It's a big deal to do it. And also, it doesn't mean that instantly all of your problems go away because you've changed one thing. I think that's, that's certainly been the hardest thing for me is going, right, I've made the change. Why don't I feel great now?

• 31:47Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 31:47Fearne Cotton?

  Because of course it all takes time and there can be a hangover with these things. I don't really get panic attacks anymore. I mean, I'm about to counter that, but I used to get them frequently, like constantly. And I stopped doing certain jobs because of it. I couldn't do live radio or TV. I still haven't gone back to doing that because I just don't want to put myself in that position currently. But I'm pretty free of them. But then maybe a couple of weeks ago, sometimes they happen for me as I'm trying to get to sleep. And if I can't get to sleep, that's where I can feel like my heart starts going, the adrenaline's pumping. And I'm like, oh my God, it's the worst time to get it because you're like meant to be super relaxed and feeling all sleepy. And you know, I'll do a few things that I know will kind of help me get out of it.

• 32:32Fearne Cotton?

  Or if I'm really bad, I'll have melatonin that I can take and just like, okay, I'm just gonna shut my brain off for a bit. But have you had anything like that where you've gone, oh my God, there's still, there's the edges of anxiety there, I can feel them. Or do you think you're out the other side?

• 32:45Speaker 02

  I feel in a good place. I feel like I'm out the other side. I remember we moved house not too long ago and Scott got me a weighted blanket.

• 32:55Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, they are heaven.

• 32:56Speaker 02

  They are incredible. If you're going through a tough time.

• 32:59Fearne Cotton?

  They're so good.

• 33:00Speaker 02

  They are. They got me a lot out of my anxiety, just putting it around me. And we moved house not too long ago and Scott was like, do you want me to bring your anxiety blanket? And I was like, no, I don't need that anymore. And I think that for me was like, I'm out of that and that's not what I want to go back to. Don't get me wrong, there's times where I recognize some of the triggers and I start to then manage that a lot better. But for me, it's recognizing them triggers a lot better now. And I feel like I'm in a place where I'm really happy. I'm surrounded by amazing people. And I think now I've learnt so much about myself and what it took me to get out of that.

• 33:41Speaker 02

  I never want to go back to that. But at the same time, I recognize the triggers a lot earlier.

• 33:47Fearne Cotton?

  So what have been the key things for you to get out of it? Because yes, you've moved environment and you know that certain things don't work for you. But what else has helped you ensure that you don't go spiralling back into that place?

• 34:01Speaker 02

  I think speaking up and speaking out, I think when I do feel a little bit groggy and a little bit down, then I'll speak up and just nip it in the bud. And also, I think for me, just surround yourself with good people. And I spend a lot of time with my family now, I'm back down south, so that makes me really happy, my nieces and my nephews as well.

• 34:22Fearne Cotton?

  Okay, you've got, you must have so many nieces and nephews. You're one of seven kids?

• 34:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm one of seven. I think there's 10 now.

• 34:30Fearne Cotton?

  Crikey.

• 34:30Speaker 02

  There's one on the way, just due just before Christmas.

• 34:34Fearne Cotton?

  You've got a lot of Christmas presents. To buy.

• 34:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, I definitely do. And I I love just being around my family. So family is everything to me. So when I see them in the stands at a game, that is even more special than just stepping foot on the pitch. So I think those that made sacrifices throughout your career, like my mom and dad, um, I just really love seeing them in the stadium and putting a smile on their faces and seeing how proud you've made them. So for me, yeah, being around family. But also, I think I'm just really happy. And I think for me, I felt around that time. When I'm at my happiest, that's when I felt like the downfall was harder.

• 35:16Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 35:16Speaker 02

  And like the anxiety. So just days after our wedding, I was went out on a walk at three o'clock in the morning because I woke up with like having a panic attack. And Scott was like, this is like the happiest time that we we've got. And like, yeah, but I expect after something really great happening, boom, it's hit the ground again. So I think now I live like steady and not get too high with highs, never too low with the lows. And I think for me, I realise, no, not after a high, I'm gonna have a low.

• 35:49Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 35:49Speaker 02

  It's just gonna be steady.

• 35:52Fearne Cotton?

  Isn't it interesting? I think when you feel like super duper happy or something really great is happening, and obviously you have that in extremes with, you know, if you're playing in international tournament or just a big match that you care deeply about, it's a place of such vulnerability. It's it's a vulnerable thing to allow yourself to be happy because you know it's ephemeral, it's not gonna last forever. It's kind of it's on sand. It's like, oh, my God, when's it gonna go? And it's it's scary to allow yourself to go, I am just gonna sink into this high and really enjoy it. Like you say, without expecting, and tomorrow I'm gonna feel like dog shit because I've experienced such a high now. It's a real. Tricky thing to land on. I mean, say you're playing a game and you win,

• 36:34Fearne Cotton?

  or you're just really happy with how you executed the game.

• 36:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:38Fearne Cotton?

  Do you allow yourself that moment of, I am going to just feel so elated? And I know it won't last, but I'm going to let myself do it.

• 36:45Speaker 02

  I think for me, I enjoy the moment and then I try and move on as quick as possible. So, for example, the Euros, I enjoyed the next week and really enjoyed celebrating with the girls. Because I think after 22, I realised we might not ever get this moment again of celebrating like this. So enjoy it for what it is. And then soon as it's done, I can switch on to the next thing. Instead of worrying if something negative is going to happen after that. So I think for me, I enjoy that moment for what it is and able to then move on to the next thing very quickly and have my goals set on something else. Because when I enjoy the moment too much and then don't have focus on the next thing,

• 37:30Speaker 02

  I think that's when I start to think, right, is it going to be bad? Or so it takes it out of my control.

• 37:36Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I guess also having been in that place where maybe you didn't fall out of love with, but you started to feel like your football career might not be a given anymore because you just couldn't be in that environment. That is a horrible feeling when something that you love is actually a major part of your identity and has been with you since childhood. When that goes, that's, that's a horrible feeling. Certainly when it goes prematurely as well, when you're still in your twenties. That is a big, big loss. I mean, like you said, on that social media post you put out, that you just wanted to feel happy again. Was there a point where you thought, I might not, I might not ever feel happy again?

• 38:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I think that was the risk that I took.

• 38:20Speaker 02

  Not knowing when I could feel that happiness again. Don't get me wrong, being around my teammates. I love every one of them and I love being around them and that was what was making me happy. But I think for me, when I got home, because I'd put on a brave face within an environment and I want to be the best teammate I could possibly be and I loved being around the girls and that really made me feel happy. But when I got home, it was like my back tree was worn out. So I got home and it was like deflated. I'd like to go to, I'd go and have a nap and I'd go and sit in a dark room because actually

• 38:58Speaker 02

  it took a lot to put on a brave face. So for me, yeah, uh, for sure. Being around people made me happy. So I think now I still like to be around people to make me happy, but knowing when I need to take the step away to not have to put on a brave face as such as this is what I need to be at my best and learning on the way. I think knowing people that make you at your best and knowing when people don't and it's just learning as you go through your career. But one thing I would say is my teammates that I was surrounded by throughout my whole career, but especially in dark moments, I'm forever grateful for.

• 39:38Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, what amazing people.

• 39:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:40Fearne Cotton?

  And it just, it's so important to remember those moments where you're, you're loved, you're, you are supported. I think when you're in those dark places, it's so easy to forget that and just think I'm alone in this. No one's got my back. I mean, it seems like your husband's an amazing support to you as well.

• 39:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure. I think like the messages that I was receiving from the girls, just checking in, checking if I was okay. And that was something that I'll never forget. And uh, even when I took the step to Arsenal and being around the girls that I'd not seen for years or that was special to me. But Scott and my mom that were on the journey throughout, I think I'll always be grateful for because it was those that I was waking up at early hours in the morning for a walk or just to FaceTime my mom or my mom coming up and just spending more days of me than she, she was going to. So I think those are the ones that I'm, I'm very grateful for the most that. Just seen the journey. I think there's there's people that obviously don't realise to what extent it went to, but

• 40:40Speaker 02

  even Scott just massaging the cream in my head for my alopecia, but those are the times where I'll never forget. And I remember one day I just seen him beaming as a smile and he's like, your hair's growing back. And I think he could the happiness it put on his face because he knew how happy it would make me that there was starting to be change within that. So for me, I'm just, yeah, surround yourself with good people and people that make you happy and people that make you feel good, but also those that will tell you no, that's not good enough, Chloe, or no, I think you're being a bit of a prat.

• 41:15Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, God, you need those people. Oh, bloody hell. And it only needs to be a tiny group of people. It can be like five people that you know love you enough to be there in the darkest moments. But like you say, also the ones that go, shut the fuck up.

• 41:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. And like, that's when when he took me off the bathroom floor, like, no, that's not happening. And I couldn't get myself off there, but you will. And I think those are the times where you realise, right, this is the person for me. And yeah, I think we're we're literally just best friends. We do everything together. So I'm glad that we could look back on like our life and he's been with me throughout the darkest times, but the highest times as well.

• 41:55Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, it was so important.

• 41:57Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 41:58Fearne Cotton?

  I'm so happy for you and I'm I'm genuinely thrilled to see that you're through the other side of it. I think it's again, like you say, speaking out and telling your story is not only important because people realise they're not alone in whether it is an alopecia diagnosis, panic attacks, bulimia, whatever it might be. You feel so alone in it and that's where shame can start to creep in or self loathing. I've been through all of that for sure. But I think knowing other people have been through it is so huge, but equally to see someone through it who's now not totally drenched in anxiety.

• 42:34Fearne Cotton?

  Is incredibly important to know that it's not something that you have to be stuck in and that you have got the opportunity to get out the other side of it.

• 42:42Speaker 02

  For sure. I think any woman in a dark place, not just in sport, but in, in life, I think to see just around the corner from such a tough moment for me was a Champions League win and a Euro win and enjoying life and really, really happy, not just putting on a brave face to be happy, it's actual genuine happiness. So I think, I think that's a learning for me to show any woman or any male that just around the corner from such a dark time was these incredible moments. So stick with it and, and speak up for what you believe in. It might not work out exactly how you want it in that moment, but it's my values

• 43:24Speaker 02

  and what I believe in. So I, I will speak up and I'll speak out. And I think that's the biggest learning for me is hoping many more women and, and males in any walk of life are able to do that.

• 43:35Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, too right. And where would you say your happy place is?

• 43:40Speaker 02

  Honestly, at home with my dogs. My dogs have got my door shut and just, just sitting with my family. I think that is my, my happiest place on earth. And if any day off I can get, I will be sat on the sofa with the dogs and spending time with my family.

• 43:57Fearne Cotton?

  Mine is the same, but just replace dogs with cats.

• 44:00Speaker 02

  With cats.

• 44:01Fearne Cotton?

  I could not be happier. Like at the moment, I'm craving a night where I can just watch Home Alone One on the sofa. That's what I want to do. So happy in that environment.

• 44:10Speaker 02

  It's perfect. But I think animals make you so happy because no matter how your day's been.

• 44:15Fearne Cotton?

  Yep.

• 44:15Speaker 02

  You go in and the joy when they see you, even if I've just gone to the bin.

• 44:21Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 44:22Speaker 02

  Like they are so happy and that just fills me with happiness.

• 44:27Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, cats aren't quite as responsive. They're not going to be like wagging their tail. Actually, one of my cats is quite mean and looks at me like I'm a piece of shit.

• 44:33Speaker 02

  All right. You need that sometimes.

• 44:35Fearne Cotton?

  You do. I've got a good balance between the three of them, but it is that unconditional love is unbeatable.

• 44:41Speaker 02

  It's so special and we actually get. To bring our dogs on camp sometimes, so it's, it's very special. Serena, that's why Serena is amazing too.

• 44:51Fearne Cotton?

  Cause she gets it, that you need that, you need that home comfort.

• 44:54Speaker 02

  Exactly. So the dogs have the best time and so do I, because when I go back to my room, it's like being at home, not in tournament football, but in preparation, we get to bring our dogs, which is perfect.

• 45:06Fearne Cotton?

  That's so sweet.

• 45:07Speaker 02

  Everyone needs an animal in their life.

• 45:09Fearne Cotton?

  I agree.

• 45:10Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 45:11Fearne Cotton?

  Well, look, Chloe, I wish you all the love and strength and luck with everything that's to come. And thank you so much for sharing your story today. It's been great chatting with you.

• 45:20Speaker 02

  Thank you very much. I appreciate you having me on.

• 45:23Fearne Cotton?

  Well, Chloe, I'm so grateful. I know that that was not easy to talk about and behind the scenes stuff, her wonderful husband, Scott was there and he was deeply emotional, listening to Chloe talk about it because she hadn't said a lot of this stuff out loud at all. So I know it was terrifying, but my goodness, what a beautifully articulate job you did, Chloe. And we are all so massively grateful and we are all so happy to see that you are back on track, feeling good and boosted and doing what you do best. Okay, back next week with such a hilarious festive treat. I cannot even begin to describe how riotous it's going to be. I'm going to be joined by

• 46:06Fearne Cotton?

  my best friends from school. We're still best mates today. We are thick as thieves. We all sound exactly like each other. You're going to be bamboozled. It's going to be so much fun. So make sure you're back here for that. In the meantime, let me know what you took from that chat with Chloe. We're on Instagram at Happy Place Official. All right. Until next time, a massive thanks again to Chloe, to the producer and a skater at Happy Place Studios and to you, I love you.

• 47:02Speaker 07

  Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of The Best One Yet. Behind every episode, there's research, emails, spreadsheets, and our shared Google Doc, the Headline Hammer.

• 47:10Speaker 04

  With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs, and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work.

• 47:21Speaker 07

  That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about.

• 47:25Speaker 04

  Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at go.gle/workspacewithGemini.

• 47:32Speaker 07

  That's go.gle/workspacewithGemini.

• 47:35Speaker 05

  Network freedom and flexibility, that's what you want in a healthcare plan. With a Humana Medicare Advantage PPO plan, you can see any doctor in the country who accepts Medicare, including specialists. No referrals, no kidding. Learn more at gethumana.com. See any doctor who accepts Medicare and is willing to bill Humana. Humana PPOs may not be available in all areas. Benefits and costs share may vary. Humana is a Medicare Advantage PPO organization with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.

• 48:07Speaker 06

  Hello, I'm Joanna Fletcher.

• 48:08Speaker 07

  And I'm Marco Burchella.

• 48:10Speaker 06

  And this is Boots Off.

• 48:13Speaker 07

  We are friends who've spent a decade together, walking up mountains, across deserts, and along coastlines with some seriously awesome groups of humans.

• 48:21Speaker 06

  And something happens when you're out there, feet on the ground, surrounded by nature. The conversations just spill out of you.

• 48:28Speaker 07

  This series is about the adversities that lead to adventure.

• 48:31Speaker 06

  The adventures that lead to adversity.

• 48:33Speaker 07

  And how life can be one big adventure in itself.

• 48:36Speaker 06

  Listen every Thursday. Just search for Boots Off.