228: You're Not Healing. You're Just Consuming Content…

Why does healing feel so hard, and why doesn't "regulating your nervous system" fix it? Nervous system expert Masha Kay returns to break down what the internet gets wrong about nervous system regulation, why regulation has become the new perfectionism, and what capacity really means in dating and relationships. We talk about why someone can love you and still not meet your needs, how to handle being triggered by a text, why "if he wanted to, he would" is bad advice, and what's actually going on when an avoidant partner shuts down. Masha explains somatic experiencing and titration in plain terms, how to stop ruminating and overthinking, and why building stability in your whole life matters more than any quick trick for calming anxiety. If you're dealing with anxious attachment, a painful breakup, emotional triggers, or healing from childhood patterns, this episode gives you real tools for healing trauma, feeling safe in your body, and building healthier relationships. Come see me on tour! https://sabrinazohar.com/tour Pre-order Sabrina's book coming out October 2026,⁠⁠ "Why Am I Like This?"⁠⁠ Get your free workbook and access to the companion course after pre-ordering 'Why Am I Like This?' by filling out the form at the bottom of the page at ⁠http://sabrinazohar.com/book⁠ Take the new and improved dating quiz! ⁠sabrinazohar.com/quiz⁠ If you’re ready to slow down, trust your instincts, and break your old dating patterns, the Healthy Relationship Foundations Course walks you through it step-by-step ⁠⁠HERE!⁠⁠ Product of the week! https://go.shopmy.us/p-90981579?s=sl1_pl1_cpl Get Ad free ⁠⁠HERE!⁠⁠ Watch on Spotify. Spotify subscribers get fewer ads on my video. Want to work with Sabrina? ⁠⁠HERE!⁠⁠ Get merch for The Sabrina Zohar Show ⁠⁠HERE!⁠⁠ Don't forget to follow ⁠⁠Sabrina⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠The Sabrina Zohar Show⁠⁠ on Instagram and ⁠⁠Sabrina ⁠⁠on TikTok! Video now available on ⁠⁠YOUTUBE!⁠⁠ Join Masha's course Befriend, an 8-week self-paced foundations course on the nervous system. Listeners can use code SABRINA for $100 off SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! Machine Washable Rugs, Made Better. For a limited time only, our listeners get 10% off + free shipping at tumbleliving.com/SABRINA #Tumble #ad Chapters: 00:00 Nervous System Regulation Myths 05:16 What Dysregulation Really Looks Like 10:44 Why Love Isn't Enough in Relationships 16:43 Healing Your Whole Life, Not Just Dating 22:27 Feeling Safe Around Difficult Family 27:08 Somatic Experiencing Explained 33:11 Titration: Why Slow Healing Works 38:38 Are You Really Doing the Work? 43:34 How to Handle Triggers in Dating 50:20 Avoidant Attachment and Overthinking Disclaimer: The Sabrina Zohar Show, formerly known as Do The Work, is not affiliated with A. Z & associates LLC in any capacity. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Flowing ad budget on metrics that look great till the CFO sees them. That's bull spend and marketers are calling it out in dashboard confessions.

• 0:09Speaker 01

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• 0:30Speaker 02

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• 1:00Sabrina Zohar?

  Healing isn't supposed to feel great. Healing is hard, but you get to choose your hard because you can do hard things. We have survived every bad day that we've ever had. But until you understand what's underneath, what makes healing so difficult? That's what's going to feel like this big albatross, like the scary thing that you don't know how to handle it and what to do. And we are going to go through all of that today. Hello, hello, hello. Welcome to another episode of the Sabrina Zohar Show. My name is Sabrina Zohar and I am your host. My babes, we have such a special guest. Ms. Masha K is back and she is not just the most knowledgeable nervous system expert that I have ever met. I have learned so much through her and somatic practices and all of these intricate details that create the patterns that we have and how we're running.

• 1:45Sabrina Zohar?

  But she is an amazing mom and I get to call her a really, really good friend. And I am so excited because we are going to be bringing you the real shit today. What does it actually mean to heal? What does that look like? And how can you actually move through it? That doesn't feel like you are muscling your way through. All right, my babes, without further ado, let's get right on into it, shall we? What has the internet gotten wrong about the nervous system and regulating?

• 2:09Speaker 04

  Oh my gosh, where to begin on this topic, especially lately now that the nervous system is this huge buzzword. Every industry is talking about it. There are so many misconceptions. I guess the first one I would say is that this idea of being regulated is about being perfect. Some kind of state that you find and you stay in forever and ever. That that's what it means to be a regulated mom or a regulated partner. That I'm going to get to this place. I'm going to have no emotions. I'm going to have no needs. I'm going to have no limits. I'm going to have endless energy and that's what it means to be regulated. That it's some kind of like magic pill, some kind of hack for being a human. That's my number one these days. Nervous system regulation work is supposed to make you feel more alive, more human, not less. This isn't about making you a robot.

• 2:52Speaker 04

  This isn't the magic pill that allows you to avoid any discomfort, any of the work you need to do. Absolutely not.

• 2:59Sabrina Zohar?

  I drives me insane is the like, just pull on your ear three times and that's how you reset your nervous system. Can we actually talk about that?

• 3:05Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 3:05Sabrina Zohar?

  Cause a lot of people go, how do I reset my nervous system? Can you dispel any myths regarding like, is that possible? Are you resetting anything? Is this like, explain to me a little bit more about that.

• 3:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, I, I'm really careful to use verbiage like that. I think what people mean, and with good intention, I don't think anyone's trying to mislead you. But I think what they mean is in a moment when you're dysregulated, there are certain tools and tips and hacks that could help you feel a little bit more regulate, to get your head above water, to move towards a more ventral regulated state. Yes. Does that mean you've completely reset your nervous system? Absolutely not. Resetting the nervous system would mean to redo the wiring. Your brain is customized to your lived experience. You pulling on your ear, even doing a breath work, which I love, does not completely reset all of the wiring that was put there in order to keep you safe based on your lived experience. Absolutely not. That takes time, that takes work, that takes repetition.

• 4:01Speaker 04

  That is a gradual process because if it was that easy to just rewire your nervous system, our nervous system be rewired for different realities every five minutes.

• 4:10Sabrina Zohar?

  Maybe like an avatar.

• 4:11Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 4:11Sabrina Zohar?

  Right? You would just be constantly being like, what universe am I in now?

• 4:14Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 4:15Sabrina Zohar?

  Well, and I think that's what drives me insane because like you and I have had this conversation for the last four years. Right? Which is actually really crazy to say. Almost we're about to hit four years. Because we've evolved and grown and that's why I'm so excited to have you back, which we're going to let everybody know who the fuck you are in like two minutes. But I'm so excited to have you back because I think I will be fully transparent. We're talking about this a little bit off mic. When I first started the show, I was a different version of myself and the, the woman that I am now still has her shit. I still get triggered, I still get dysregulated. Right? We were just talking about the troll fucking comment I just got and this woman who like emailed me. It's like, some people are just off their rocker and that's okay.

• 4:52Speaker 04

  And they're going to dysregulate you and that's completely normal and healthy, by the way.

• 4:55Sabrina Zohar?

  Totally normal, right? Because like we've always talked about, like if the tiger walked in, like I would like you to be nervous. I would like you to be scared if someone with a gun was standing there. It's like, that's what your body should be doing. But I feel like the pendulum has swung and people think that like, if they're not perfect, if they're not always regulated, if I, if I feel anything, I'm not worthy of love, which then ends up being conditional. And we end up going right back into childhood core beliefs of you always have to be a good girl or boy in order to receive love.

• 5:19Speaker 04

  Yes, spot on. And isn't it interesting how we've come full circle? Like this tool that was about helping us connect with ourselves, love ourselves, understand ourselves is now being used to reaffirm the fucked up beliefs we've all been trying to rewire, which is why we found this work to begin with. Right? Regulation is absolutely the new perfectionism. And I think we need to be so careful about that, even like using the word regulation. I am so much more mindful of it because now people have a preconceived notion of what a regulated mom, a regulated woman, a regulated partner is. And that idea is just some kind of perfect robot who has no emotions or needs, has no flaws, has no weaknesses, has no wounds.

• 6:03Speaker 04

  And that could not be further from the truth of like, why you and I even got here, why we're doing this work. And I think it is really important to bring people back to what this work is really about, which is about allowing you to connect to your humanity.

• 6:17Sabrina Zohar?

  Yeah. Dysregulation looks different for everybody. I have seen, one of my girlfriends is going through a breakup and it's that she's in bed, she can't sleep, she can't eat. She's a bag of bones and she said, she's like, I can't function. I'm just so, I'm, she's constantly looking at who is he following and who's following him and listening. And it's like, that's one version, right? We've talked about how my brother shows up where it's like the very stoic, as if like, it's just, you know, you're just being too much. When it's like, you're wildly dysregulated. For me, sometimes it'll show up where I'm in my own head and I can tell my partner is getting annoyed with me that I keep harping on the same thing. I keep making the same comment of like, oh, wait, but that video didn't do well. And it's like, it doesn't just end there. Then all of a sudden it goes, do you think people don't like me? Wait, did I script this wrong? Did I fuck up? And then you can just start to tell you're like, oh, I'm on my spiral and my loop.

• 7:01Sabrina Zohar?

  The moral of that story though, is like, there's nothing wrong with anybody for feeling that. But now what do we do with it? That to me is like, you always said explanation or excuse, like what do we do when we're in these moments? Which is what we're going to talk about today. For my OGs, for the ones that have been from the beginning, who have been begging to have this woman back on the podcast. Guess who's back today? Ms. Masha K, our resident nervous system expert, the one that has been here through it all. And I'm actually excited because we get to talk about the growth that we've also had in celebration of my new book. Why am I like this? You, we are like less than two weeks away. By the time this comes out, we're like 10 days away. If you haven't preordered, please go do it. That's the only way I make the New York Times bestselling list is if you get a hardcover, go get it, go get it. Come see me on tour. I'll be in London in a couple of days, October 6th.

• 7:46Sabrina Zohar?

  I'll be in the, in San Diego with Masha, October 27th. If you guys like this, come and see us more. So without further ado, Ms. Masha, could you introduce yourself a little bit more?

• 7:55Speaker 04

  Yes, I am Masha K and I am, I am so excited to be here. I was thinking about the last time I was here was before I gave birth to Chloe. So talk about.

• 8:05Sabrina Zohar?

  Fuck.

• 8:06Speaker 04

  Pregnant as fuck. Literally gave birth a week later from the day. I remember that.

• 8:11Sabrina Zohar?

  Crazy.

• 8:12Speaker 04

  Actually, I think a few days later. Wild.

• 8:15Sabrina Zohar?

  We were like, oh, thank God we did that when we did it. Yeah. Oh yeah. You were about to pop.

• 8:18Speaker 04

  Yes. And like, just, can we just take a moment to acknowledge I have a two-year-old?

• 8:23Sabrina Zohar?

  You have a fricking book.

• 8:25Speaker 04

  I birthed it. You birthed this. I mean, this is incredible.

• 8:29Sabrina Zohar?

  Thanks, dude.

• 8:29Speaker 04

  This is so fricking incredible. I, I can't even put into words how proud I am and reading it, it is so good.

• 8:34Sabrina Zohar?

  Thank you.

• 8:35Speaker 04

  Truly, it is so good. The way you break it down, how vulnerable you are. Everything I'm reading, I'm like, this is what I need my clients to know. This is what I need them to, like you just condensed it in the way you know how to do, and it's, it's magic.

• 8:46Sabrina Zohar?

  Thanks, dude. Well, I'm excited to have you here because I really want us to go deeper in because, you know, listen, I was only allowed to write a certain amount of words. So there's only so much, and also in my, we'll go into it, my capacity, there's only so much I know about every single fucking aspect of all of this. And so one thing that I really want to understand, when we're talking, we say capacity all the time. Do they have the bandwidth? Do they have the capacity? And rightfully speaking, I think a lot of people hearing that go, I don't know what the fuck that means. In your words, what do you see capacity being when we're talking about interpersonal dynamics and relationships? And also even motherhood, as you've learned, but really how do we kind of surmise that so that people can understand what we mean when we say, do they have the capacity?

• 9:26Speaker 04

  Yeah. The way I think about it, I know there's so many ways to break it down. I think about capacity as like your ability to hold the things that you want, the challenges that are being presented, like your ability to hold your reality. Because what often happens is there's a new challenge, there's a goal, there's something we desire, like a relationship, and we start moving towards it. And we realize we can't hold it. How do we know we can't hold it? We start getting triggered, we start getting activated, we start shutting down, we start being unable to access the most authentic version of ourselves. That's how we know we're. We are leaving that range of capacity. Our capacity is smaller than what our goals and dreams require of us.

• 10:07Sabrina Zohar?

  So how do you expand that in a way that will actually serve us? Right? Because I think a lot of people want, why I hate if he wanted to, he would. Right? If he wanted to, he would is nonsense advice because a lot of people don't have the bandwidth in the capacity. Could you explain more on how want and do are two different aspects of our nervous system? And how you can't just want, you can't just will your way into wanting something and then achieve it?

• 10:27Speaker 04

  A hundred percent, right? Like when we think about our authentic selves, that's where our dreams and our goals come from. And our authentic self may have these beautiful, big dreams. At our most authentic, we might be a deeply kind, loving, capable person. Yes, we have those dreams. Now, as we start to move towards those dreams, our nervous system will tell us, can we actually hold that? Can we stay connected to our authentic selves as challenges come in? Right? As things get hard, as we, you know, as things go wrong. That's when we know it's like, okay, I may want this, but can I actually do what it takes to get there? And that's the difference between, no, he might want to be an amazing partner. I mean, you and I were just talking about this.

• 11:08Speaker 04

  People we know who are currently going through breakups with people that they believe were really wonderful men. And I believe them. I believe my client when she says the person she was with was a wonderful human being. But the truth is, he wanted to be a great partner to her. He wanted to meet her needs, but when it came down to it, he did not have the capacity to do so. His nervous system was getting activated. He was going into those preconditioned patterns of keeping himself safe, which of course pushed her away. And so did he want to be a good person? Yes. Was he able to do that? No, he wasn't able to expand his capacity enough.

• 11:44Sabrina Zohar?

  How do you reconcile with that? Because I would imagine like that could create a cognitive dissonance in ourselves of like, I think that they could be this, but then I'm seeing this. And I hear a lot of the times, I'm so confused, I'm so confused. But how do you reconcile? I mean, maybe it's acceptance, right? Whatever it is, but when you hear that, right? When you hear someone say, I know that they have, they're amazing and all these, but they just don't have the bandwidth and the capacity on the receiving end, what do you do with that?

• 12:06Speaker 04

  Yeah. I mean, first and foremost, that's the hard part. Like for us, we're talking about their capacity right now, right? But I think this is where our own capacity comes in. Do we have the capacity to sit with two seemingly contradicting truths? Right? Because it's on one hand, this person loves me and is a good person. And on the other hand, I am able to see that they are not able to meet my needs. Now, in reality, those are not mutually exclusive.

• 12:31Speaker 04

  There's very much a huge overlap, but it feels contradictory because it feels like, well, if he loved me, wouldn't he do that for me? No, not necessarily. Right? And so first and foremost, it's having compassion for how hard it is to sit with that truth. It is incredibly uncomfortable because you want this person to meet your needs. You believe in this person. I think that's a beautiful thing to have, you know, trust that this person could grow and be better. That's gorgeous. That's beautiful. But we have to be able to see the reality. And the reality is this person actually can't meet my needs. I think A, sitting with that is really hard. And B, starting to kind of sit in that discomfort and consider, actually, those aren't so contradictory. I even think about myself, like there are so many times in my life and my relationship

• 13:14Speaker 04

  where I really want to show up in my most regulated, authentic self. And yet something happens, be it my partner says something, be it I'm just having a really hard day. And I don't show up that way. I get activated. I get triggered. Maybe I get a little cold. Maybe I even raise my voice or use a tone of voice that I'm really not proud of. It's not because I don't love my partner. It's not because I don't care. It's because in that moment, I just didn't have the capacity to access the most authentic self. I was getting dysregulated. My nervous system was saying too much. I didn't respond to that in a timely manner. And so I wasn't able to do that. And so just even that thought, I think is helpful of like, sometimes we want to do things that we're not able to do.

• 13:54Sabrina Zohar?

  I want to be a millionaire, but you know, I have my core beliefs and how long. Remember when we first, when I first bought my laptop and you were at my house, holding my hand while I was having a full on panic attack? Buying my laptop, I didn't have the capacity to accept that, like I was worthy of that. I was deserving of it. I had my own shit going on now. I've expanded that now. If I spend $10,000 on an expense, you're like, it's fine, you'll make it back. It's not as simple, I wish, trust me. And when I say expense, I wish it was in Hermes bag. It's not. It's like you're talking about like an editor for your podcast. But I've learned that through expanding, when like I actively do that. But when I had a lot, you guys wrote in and thank you guys for writing in. As always, at the Sabrina Zohar Show, you know, we do our question boxes. If you guys want to be part of the conversation. And oh, really quick, just to fly for anybody that's listening.

• 14:37Sabrina Zohar?

  If you came from social, don't forget to subscribe for the show. Cause I get a lot, you guys will love an episode, but then you don't know that we have amazing ones every single week. So if you're new to the family, don't forget to subscribe so that you can follow along and be here when Master Lasha comes back. So what I got, what I started to notice when we asked the question box was a consistency about, what do I do when I'm in the moment and I'm super triggered and I don't know what to do? Right? We got like 20 different versions of that when we were going through them. It's, you know, how do I make better decisions when I'm trying to regulate? So can we go in that a little bit? Cause I know you got a lot to say of really the realities of like, how do you handle this? And I know as motherhood has really taught you a lot. And so we can use that as an example, but that can also be used, even if you do not have children.

• 15:18Sabrina Zohar?

  But when you hear that, right? Like, how do you pause to say you need to regulate before continuing a hard conversation? We'll start there and then you can go.

• 15:25Speaker 04

  So yeah, we saw these questions and they're all really good questions. They're questions I used to have. They're questions I'm sure you used to have. And where I struggle with those questions is the person is wanting me to say, hey, do this, this and this. Pull on your ear, take a deep breath, feel your feet on the ground. And by the way, some of those could be great and they could work every once in a while. They worked for someone at one point, right? They're great. But if I was being honest, what I would want to say is, I don't know how much I could really help you in that moment if you haven't been doing work outside of that moment. Right? So yes, there's little things that we can do to kind of get your head above water. We could help you feel your feet on the ground, connect to your breath, bring in some glimmers, all wonderful things. But I really need you thinking about the bigger picture here, which is,

• 16:09Speaker 04

  if you are not stabilizing the rest of your life, if you're not looking at the structure of your life and whether you are creating safety there, if you're creating a foundation that could support you, because clearly you're doing hard things, you're getting triggered in relationship because you're pursuing a meaningful relationship. You're putting yourself out there. That's beautiful. That's amazing. You're stretching. But if you want to be stretching, you also need to be doing the work of stabilizing. And that cannot just be done in the moment. In the moment, you could just get your head above water, which will help maybe a tiny bit. Or maybe you will help for a moment, but you're going to find yourself right back there if you are not making changes outside of that. And so I think that's the hard part with these questions of like, we can give you a list of random things you can do.

• 16:52Speaker 04

  And I'm a big proponent on helping you build a toolkit of things you can do. But I need you to know that is not the only work that needs to get done. In fact, if you're just doing that work, but the rest is staying exactly the same, you're going to find yourself there again. And it's not because you're not working hard enough. It's because you're not creating enough stability for you to be able to do the stretch that you want to do in other areas of your life.

• 17:16Sabrina Zohar?

  I think that's the harsh reality about healing is that one, there's no end game. There's no like, when I do this, then I get to this. But realistically, when you're actually healing the deepest, darkest wounds that you are trying to face, you got to show up like that every single fucking day. That's like saying, I want to lose 20 pounds, but I go to the gym once a month. It's never, you're not going to achieve the goals that you have if you're not actually committing every single day to doing something to better your fucking life, because no one is going to do it for you.

• 17:43Speaker 04

  Yeah. And when you say better your life, I think, let's pause on that for a second. Better your life means let's look at your life holistically. Let's not just look at dating. Let's not just look at this one trigger of, you know, this guy didn't send me the text or this happened or this happened and I got activated. What do I do? Let's talk about your life. Is there stability in other areas of your life? Is your home something that helps stabilize you and make you feel regulated? The place where you live, the other relationship in your life? How full is the rest of your life? Is this the only thing you're focusing on? Are there other things in your environment that feel like a threat or make you feel unsafe? Addressing those is really important. You're wanting to step out of your comfort zone. You're wanting to grow. That's beautiful.

• 18:26Speaker 04

  But are you creating enough stability to actually be able to do that? I think one thing people forget is that the way we build capacity, the way we just grow in general, because building capacity is a fancy way of saying grow. Right? And this can be applied to any area is this combination, this rhythm, I like to think about it, of stretching and stabilizing, stretching and stabilizing. If we're only stretching, we're going to end up in strain. We're going to end up burned, burned out. Right? If we're only stabilizing, we're going to keep our lives pretty small. And so we need to have this rhythm. And I mean that in, like in a season of life where we're stretching and then we're taking time to rest and recuperate and receive support. I also mean that on a day to day. Right? Just this rhythm of like, where am I creating stability in my life?

• 19:11Speaker 04

  And where am I actively pushing myself out of my comfort zone? We need both portions of that equation. And I think people forget that. And when they think about stabilizing, they often think in the moment, take a deep breath. I mean, make sure your life is set up in a way where it is not sending you cues of danger left and right, but it is sending you cues of safety because safety is what we need in order to grow.

• 19:33Sabrina Zohar?

  This episode is sponsored by Tumble rugs. If you're like me and you have a dog or maybe you have kids, you know how difficult rugs can be in the house. I could never have one when I had Clem because my boy used to ruin all of them and it was so difficult to clean them. But Tumble rugs have literally changed the game for us. And now we have rugs all over the house because they feature a proprietary spill proof surface that causes liquids to literally beat up on top of the rug. So instead of soaking into the fibers like most rugs, you can literally wipe away spills in seconds. It's basically magic. And because Kobe can be a dirty boy sometimes when we come back from the park, I need a deep clean. And that's why I love Tumble. They're fully machine washable, even the larger sizes. You just remove the rug from the pad, toss it in the washer. Seriously, this is going to change your life.

• 20:17Sabrina Zohar?

  Machine washable rugs made better. For a limited time only, our listeners get 10% off and free shipping at tumbleliving.com/sabrina. That's T U M B L E, living.com/ sabrina. After you purchase, they'll ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show, The Sabrina Zohar Show, and tell them our show sent you.

• 20:39Speaker 00

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• 20:49Speaker 01

  My boss asked for results, so I opened my dashboard for the only positive sounding metric I had. Impressions.

• 20:56Speaker 00

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• 21:09Sabrina Zohar?

  It's so funny. I remember, I'll never forget, I feel like you probably remember this too. The first time, so when I met Ryan, I wasn't talking to my dad, right? Like I hadn't spoken to him in a little over a year. And I was with Ryan for the first time when I called him and like had a conversation with him after like almost two, yeah, it was two and a half years. And I'll never forget, he came to visit at the end of the year. And I hadn't clocked it, but when he, when I actually saw him and I felt so much, because you had been working together, I started understanding the nervous system and my body and all of these things. And I felt that panic, that anxiety, that fear, that like, God, I couldn't breathe. And I remember coming home going, oh, my God, look how much work I've done.

• 21:49Sabrina Zohar?

  Because I was able to acknowledge, wow, being with this person makes me feel really uneasy, unsafe, unsettled. I do not like this. But then I created enough safety in my environment of going, I have my mom, I have my friends, I have my partner. This feels good, this feels good, to where I was aware enough. And in that moment, I remember going, no wonder I was a fucking psychopath in my twenties. Because if this is what all I was surrounding with, gaslighting and manipulation and dismissal and the way he treats us, no wonder that didn't work for me. And the hardest part with my dad to reconcile for me is that you do have those moments of beauty that are so few and far between. Because I will never sit here and be like, oh, he's all bad.

• 22:30Sabrina Zohar?

  It's like, no, no, no, there was some really tender moments with my dad when he would show up for me in brief glimmers. Right? Little bits that you're like, oh, but he is there, he's in the audience. Or wow, he, he gave me money so I could go do this and he really believed in me. But unfortunately, what outweighed was how often I had to earn that. How often I had to sell my soul for that. How often I had to go, oh, well, let me just give you everything as a thank you. Let me bleed all over the floor so that you could see I'm hurt. And it was in that moment where I realized that you are also allowed to choose the people that you are in your environment with. I'm not saying to alienate, I'm not saying to estrange, that is not what I'm saying. Because I think if you want people in your life, please, please do that. But be aware of how you feel.

• 23:11Sabrina Zohar?

  And to your point of like, the life that you are creating holistically, going of like, do I have my exercise routine? Even if it's a walk, right? It doesn't mean you have to go lift a hundred pounds. Do I go to Pilates? Do I go, I don't give a fuck. Do I have, do I, am I eating well? You always taught me, you're like, girl, just drink your water, like, it's basic shit of like, have you eaten today? No, it's been 27 hours since you ate food, maybe you go do that, you ADHD psycho. Little bits and bobs that I don't think people understand, those little things compound over time. We don't tell you to journal just because it makes us feel good in the moment. It's because it's an actual outlet that maybe that doesn't have to work for you. But I'm really glad that you talked about the holistic measures. Because the shit doesn't go away, but you become more aware and attuned of how other people in your life and environment make you feel.

• 23:55Sabrina Zohar?

  And then you decide where they fit in your life.

• 23:57Speaker 04

  100%. There's like so many parts of that that are so real and relatable. I mean, so many, but like, the one I want to start with is you saying, I felt safe enough to be in my body, to recognize how my dad was making me feel. That you needed the safety, that's, I know how much inner work you had already done up until that point. I know how much support you were receiving to continue to do that work. I know how hard you had worked on your relationship with Ryan to create a safe partnership. I know how much effort you put into your friendships and your relationships with your mom and other family. All of that was creating the stability for you to be able to do this hard thing. Because even just meeting up with him was incredibly hard for you.

• 24:37Speaker 04

  To do the hard thing, stay connected to yourself enough to then recognize, whoa, this is really activating me. This feels really unsafe. And whoa, I must have been feeling this my entire childhood, but I didn't have the safety to actually take that in and then use that as a choice point to decide what to do with it. But by the way, as a child, there was no choice point, you don't have a choice, you, you're trapped.

• 24:59Sabrina Zohar?

  That's all.

• 24:59Speaker 04

  Right? In your circumstances.

• 25:00Sabrina Zohar?

  Yeah.

• 25:01Speaker 04

  Right? And so I just think that's a really beautiful piece to really be mentioning here of like, how much work you had done outside of your inner healing work, to create that environment, to create those relationships, to, to bring those in, to receive support. And then you were able to stay connected with yourself and do a hard thing and make decisions that move you towards the life that you want to decide, does this person belong in my life or not? And the other piece that I think is just so real is you saying, he has some good parts to him. Or at least had, there was beautiful moments with your dad. And like you were saying before, that's what makes those moments so hard when people are going through a breakup, right? Of like, well, he, there's good things about him and I think he wants to change and I think he does love me.

• 25:45Speaker 04

  So why isn't he able to do that? He doesn't have the capacity. And that's a hard thing to sit with because our mind wants to go one extreme to the other. Either he's all good and he's wonderful and I just need to commit my life to him. Or he's a monster, right? And, and the truth is somewhere in the middle of like, I don't need you to lie to yourself and say that your ex was a monster. Maybe he wasn't a monster, right? But maybe he was a good guy who can't meet your needs. And he's not taking the initiative and the accountability and doing the work in order to expand his own capacity. Because at the end of the day, I think that's what matters, right? How do we sit in that discomfort, those two pieces of, is that person actively working on expanding their own capacity? Because if they're not, it's always going to be this, right? That they love you, but they can't meet your needs.

• 26:30Sabrina Zohar?

  Not everyone's a narcissist, not everyone's avoidant, not everyone's an asshole. Sometimes it really just is that they don't have the capacity to show up in the way that you need and have the relationship in the way that you also need one. And I think when we villainize the other person, it makes us feel better about ourselves. Because look, I packed it up with a bow, they're the asshole, they're the problem. But actually, I think what takes a lot of strength is being able to hold both and say, maybe they actually weren't that bad of a person, but the way that they loved me didn't work for me and that's okay.

• 26:56Speaker 04

  100%. That's okay. That's okay.

• 26:59Sabrina Zohar?

  I wanted to ask you.

• 27:00Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 27:00Sabrina Zohar?

  Because you've been talking a lot, you were saying that you've been expanding your somatic practices. So can you explain a little bit more about like, what the fuck that even is? But really just what you've been learning as you've been going along and you were doing your own journey and the work that you've been seeing of how the somatic plays in. Because I think so many people listening are like, but I over process and I ruminate and I spiral and, but I feel like there's a missing piece. And you really taught me about that missing piece because I was always up here. But explain to me a little bit more about what you are learning as you've been, you know, doing all of this somatic work and, and how that starts to impact and what we can actually do with it.

• 27:32Speaker 04

  Yeah. Oh, my gosh, yeah, it's been so long, I haven't talked about any of this. This is all the stuff that's happened in the last couple of years. And so I guess I'll start with the fact that I got into somatic work. And so more specifically into somatic experiencing, that's what I've been doing the last two years in my trainings as a practitioner. Because I realized once I became a mom, that there is a lot of limitations to the regulation work that I was doing. Meaning now that I'm a mom, I can't step away in order to become regulated. A lot of my regulation work before had a lot of routines, a lot of practices. That wasn't the only work, there was a lot of deep inner healing work, but I relied quite heavily on routines and practices. I don't always have that luxury anymore. And frankly, even if I did have luxury, I don't want to have to step away from my child

• 28:16Speaker 04

  in order to become regulated, because my child's nervous system is actually more important, right? That needs to be the priority, that's why I had a child. And so that's when I was like, okay, I want to go deeper into this. How do we regulate if we can't access all of these tools? And that's where I started going deeper and deeper into the somatic work that I was already doing, but at a completely different level. So I found somatic experiencing and somatic experiencing, there's so many beautiful principles that it really highlights. But the idea is that in order to heal some of the trauma that you and I talk about with our clients, we don't just need to like, go as deep as possible into the painful stuff.

• 28:57Speaker 04

  We actually need to teach our nervous system to be able to move between something hard and something that feels good. And people, when I first explained this, it's like, it, it sounds a little woo woo. They're like, well, what do you mean, right? And everyone just kind of wants to talk about the hard stuff, let's go deeper, let's unpack this. Let's understand where this comes from in my child. They want to go on and on and on, but that's the familiar path. What's not familiar to their nervous system is to come back, to come back to regulation, to come back to safety, to resource. And so what we're doing when we're using tools like somatic experiencing is literally teaching your nervous system to move between these states. To move between something hard and painful to something that feels a little bit better, a little bit more resourceful.

• 29:42Speaker 04

  And in doing so, we're also titrating. So a lot of times when people are doing this healing work, they want to go as deep as possible into the painful stuff. Not realizing that they're recreating the very overwhelm that initially brought them here. And so learning to do this work really gradually makes a really big difference. And then again, as you start doing that, as you start teaching your nervous system to be able to shift between those states within a session with a safe person, it starts to become a lot easier in your day to day life. And then you don't necessarily need as many practices and tools and tricks, you know, the ear and all of that. You don't need quite as much because your system is familiar with moving between states. It's not so scary to get dysregulated.

• 30:26Sabrina Zohar?

  What, can you explain titration? Because my sister is even, she mentioned that the other day of like a supplement, she was like, you need to titrate. And I was like, go on. What does that look like in practice? Like, what does that feel or feel like?

• 30:36Speaker 04

  Yeah, so there's real, there's a two important concepts in somatic experiencing that I think are really practical and could be really useful to anyone who understands them. And one of them is titration. Titration really just means doing little by little. Little bite sized pieces, feeling them in your body, letting your body metabolize them before going deeper. I think what people want to do is go as deep as possible, understand everything. And when they start doing that, they start going up here, they start leaving their bodies. And the real issue around trauma is the disconnect. That we don't feel safe being in our bodies, that there's like these different pieces, there's the meaning, there's the physical experience. And they're all disconnected, they're like these puzzle pieces that are all spread out. And what we're doing with somatic work is we're just kind of helping bring these puzzle pieces back together in the right relationship.

• 31:21Speaker 04

  Because sometimes we have puzzle pieces that are connected that don't belong together, right? So that's what this work is really doing and titration helps us take little by little. Regulate before going deeper. And again, that's such a simple concept. Do little by little, be gradual with your work. But I want people to think about like, how often do we actually do that? How often do we jump into the deep end, push as hard as possible, do as much as in our business, right, in our relationships, wherever, like same, same. It's a really hard thing to do because it's tempting to keep going.

• 31:51Sabrina Zohar?

  Which is funny, that's actually why I named the book, Why Am I Like This? I named it almost like a joke because I was like, no, no, no, I can tell you why. Like this isn't, because every time, almost every show I've done recently, they're like, all right, tell me why. I'm like, I mean, I can't. Childhood conditioning, bullshit blueprint, you learned it from somewhere, right? Like, I can tell you why, but the why is not actually helping you feel any better.

• 32:08Speaker 04

  No.

• 32:09Sabrina Zohar?

  The why is not going to get you to the deeper levels of going and now understanding yourself, which is why I tried so hard to be like, okay, you see how this happened? And then you see the belief I made? And then you see the behavior I had? I'm like, this is how clear I wanted to make it so that people can really digest it and be like, oh, that's how this happened. Because otherwise it's ethereal, right? You're like, oh, yeah, yeah, this, or you hear like, but I had a perfect childhood. And it's like, okay, let's read between the lines, right? Like even you, you and Paul are two rock star parents. Your kid's still gonna have an issue, something, something, something, something, right? There will always be something. I was, I was with somebody the other day and he said, he's an amazing dad, four kids. They asked the middle child, do you, how, like, are you, what's going on?

• 32:53Sabrina Zohar?

  Do you feel like, like, are you upset right now? And he said, I just feel like dad came right home and he went right to the younger one. And then the older one, you took to dance and like, what about me? And so he was like, okay. And he sat and he was like, I'm gonna focus on you for at least like 30. He was like, you have my attention. What do you need from me? Even something as simple as that is like, look how innocent that was, that your caregiver has no idea the impact because every child has different needs. That's normal, that's human, that is part of living. And it's the same in relationships because you could meet someone, it's the same. Wow, this is also becoming clear for me as I even say it. You don't get to choose your parents, right? And so if they can't attune to your needs and they don't understand like what it is that you need in order to survive and to function and to thrive in the world.

• 33:37Sabrina Zohar?

  Well, sorry, kid, that's what you get, right? They can't, I can't go and unsubscribe. But in relationships, we feel like it's the same. And you know, my mama always used to say, you just, you expect this person to love you in the way that you need to be loved and how you wanna be loved. And you need to understand that not everybody is going to. That doesn't mean anybody's wrong, but maybe you both need to be loved very differently. And that was a hard thing for me to understand in my body because my thoughts would go of like, but, but, but they like me, but if they like me, why wouldn't they figure this out? Why wouldn't you try to love me how I need? And I think that that's actually us not understanding how humans work because I could want to. But if you told me, for instance, hey, Sab, I love being your friend, but I need to talk to you once every six months.

• 34:20Sabrina Zohar?

  And you're like, oh, oh, okay, okay, that's what you need. But then I would go, oh, but that doesn't work for me. I wanna talk to you every hour. Well, no one's right or wrong, right? It's just going, oh, well, what, I can't love you in the way that you need. And maybe if I can, then this will work, but I might not be able to. And I think titrating, going in small and slow and gradual allows us to also understand how we need to be loved.

• 34:41Speaker 04

  Yes, 100%. And that's the thing, like titration, so simple. And when you experience it in a session, it might almost feel like, what are we doing here? But there's a magic to, and the magic is slowing down. We are so used to going so fast, even when we're telling the story of our childhood or our past, like you were saying, why am I like this? So often I get a client coming in and they wanna tell me why they are the way they are. And they know the story, they've done enough work, right? I do work with a lot of incredibly self-aware people, but as they start telling it, they start going so fast. And this happened, and this happened, and my dad, and then my mom. And you could hear it, there's that activation. There is magic, even if you can catch that person saying that story, but hey, let's just pause that, that, that one part right there, right?

• 35:24Speaker 04

  Let's just, let's let that land before, we'll get to the rest. But let's just let that land. It is quite wild what happens in the body because what the body is doing is actually metabolizing. A lot of the times we have so much information, we have so much awareness, we have so much knowledge, it's like trying to digest a meal that's way too big. Your body cannot metabolize it, it can't digest it.

• 35:45Sabrina Zohar?

  You gotta chew.

• 35:46Speaker 04

  You gotta chew. And that's what titration is, it's these little bites and letting your body actually feel it and take it in. And when it's doing that, something really interesting happens. And this is a little bit more nuanced, somatic experiencing. If you really pause there, your body might start releasing what it's been holding on to. Whatever it is that happened in childhood that your body didn't get to fully process, it didn't get to respond, it didn't get to go into that survival mechanism to protect itself. If you give it enough time, that starts to come up. But that could only happen if you go really, really slow. And most of us don't wanna go slow. Going slow is incredibly uncomfortable, especially in today's world. So this idea of titration, be it in a relationship, be it in healing, be it even in consuming content or reading a book, it's really powerful.

• 36:29Speaker 04

  Like I was reading your book and I have to read slowly because I have Chloe, but it's really interesting to read a little bit and like really feel into that. Feel into that story, feel into that question, right? What do most of us do, just kind of zoom through?

• 36:41Sabrina Zohar?

  Oh, that's why I'll tell people, make, please don't adjust my content back to back. It's too much, it's too much of like, oh, I like, and I love it when people like, I binged your show, I listened to 30 episodes in a day. And it's like, but then you're not really allowing yourself to sit in the weight of maybe what I've said. Now, maybe you are, right? I can't speak for everybody, but at least for me, I know, I was the same, like, I'll read a chapter and I'm like, let me sit on this and see how I feel. And I've had that, I've in the past, I've had therapists where I'll tell a story and they're like, could you explain, how did you feel just now?

• 37:07Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 37:08Sabrina Zohar?

  Like what came up as you were telling me that your voice started to spike? Like what were you experiencing?

• 37:12Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 37:12Sabrina Zohar?

  And being able to connect and not just being like, oh, but I have to explain everything, trauma response, right? I have to explain it and let me just explain, you just don't understand it, you just don't get me, let me just explain it.

• 37:21Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 37:21Sabrina Zohar?

  And instead being like, oh, you actually didn't like doing that. That didn't feel great. And just being there.

• 37:29Speaker 04

  And that moment, again, it seems so simple.

• 37:31Sabrina Zohar?

  Seems so simple.

• 37:32Speaker 04

  But what is happening is that there's these puzzle pieces that are coming into the right relationship. Suddenly you're like, yeah, actually, when I said that, my breath got really shallow and it didn't really get, okay, what happens when you feel that? Now that's a puzzle piece that was connected, something happened in childhood where all these sensations happen at once, but now that puzzle piece is coming back into relationship. Like, oh, my breath gets shallow when I do that. Okay, what happens if I actually give it the time to process and to my body to feel that and release it before I move further into the story, right? Like part of healing is really just having these different pieces coming into the right relationship with each other. Because a lot of what trauma is, is puzzle pieces attaching to one another that don't really belong.

• 38:12Sabrina Zohar?

  Yeah.

• 38:12Speaker 04

  Right? Every time, you know, someone moves towards me, I get really anxious. Well, we don't need to get really anxious when someone moves towards us, but probably something happened in your past that conditioned your system to move back when someone moves towards you. But if you can give that enough support, those puzzle pieces could be like, oh, there's someone moving towards me and there's my protective mech, oh, those are two, two separate things, huh? What is the right relationship for those two things? And that's where healing actually happens. So yes, understanding yourself is really important, but going slow and getting into the body and letting the body release and process, that's where the magic really happens. That's where you walk out and you're like, huh, something feels different.

• 38:51Sabrina Zohar?

  Yeah.

• 38:52Speaker 04

  Not all at once.

• 38:53Sabrina Zohar?

  It's not, it's not a kumbaya.

• 38:55Speaker 04

  No.

• 38:55Sabrina Zohar?

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• 40:11Sabrina Zohar?

  It's funny because I think what people forget is that triggered looks different for everybody, but you know what healing does too? And then what we also have to remember is, most people aren't doing the fucking work. Most people don't wanna be uncomfortable. Most people like to spew their bullshit. We are in a time right now where it's everybody else is the problem. I didn't do anything, no, it's you and it's you and you made me uncomfortable and you said something mean to me and you made me do this. Instead of saying, but I actually take ownership and accountability that like this is on me. I felt that, which means it's within me. It doesn't mean that your actions didn't cause a reaction, that's, that's fine. I can hold both conflicting thoughts. But the reality is, is that most people, when you're dating, are probably not doing this work. Most people that you meet in life are probably not doing this work, but you don't do that

• 40:54Sabrina Zohar?

  because you're automatically expecting another result. Because I get that all the time of like, well, I've done all this work, why haven't I met them? And it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. But then if you've done all this work, then you auto, then you know, intrinsically, this is for you. This is so you lay up your head on the pillow because you don't owe anybody money? There ain't nobody knocking down your door, trying to fucking get something from you? You haven't left a wake of destruction, ghosting 30 people? You do this so that you can feel good in your body, not so that you can elicit a response. And if you're doing it to elicit a response, then you're not actually fucking being honest with yourself.

• 41:24Speaker 04

  100%. In fact, you might not be really doing the work.

• 41:27Sabrina Zohar?

  No, probably not, right?

• 41:29Speaker 04

  You're probably consuming a lot of content, you're probably trying to do all the right things, coming back to this idea of regulation as perfectionism. I think a lot of people are trying to kind of act the right way, where what they believe is the right way and kind of like white knuckle their way through it versus actually doing the deeper work and change coming from that, right? They're kind of just like, well, I should, this, these are the right things to say, these are the right things to do. That's important, I love that. But there's more to it. And so, yeah, if you're constantly asking the question of like, but why aren't they doing the work? Well, I did all this work. I don't, I don't think you're actually feeling the shift within yourself. Because if you did, I think the answer would be quite clear of why you're doing the work because you feel better.

• 42:10Sabrina Zohar?

  Oh, yeah.

• 42:10Speaker 04

  So to me, it's kind of like, I wonder if you're actually not feeling better and that's why you're asking that question.

• 42:14Sabrina Zohar?

  I wonder, should I share the message I got today?

• 42:17Speaker 04

  Honestly, yes.

• 42:18Sabrina Zohar?

  So I'm gonna give you an example. I'm gonna give you an example of what wild.

• 42:23Speaker 04

  Because I think, I think it's important for people to see what this really looks like.

• 42:26Sabrina Zohar?

  What does real dysregulation look like? Okay. So I opened my DMs today and the episode that we had was about, am I behind in life and will I ever find love, right? It was with Tamsin Fadell, she's fucking amazing, she met her partner at 55. So we were talking about how you can have a start at any point. One of the photos was Ryan, it's me like, kind of looking to the side. And she doesn't follow me and she wrote, you look way older, that's so sad. And so I respond because I clap back because I think it's rude and I said, and you can go fuck yourself. That's wildly inappropriate. Who the fuck do you think you are messaging somebody like that? Why don't you focus on yourself and let me go and continue on with my life? She then finds my website after I block her and she sends in a message. First name Sabrina, last name Zohar Sucks, but she puts her email. So thanks, Dani. Shout out to you. Fuck you. Okay? Everybody else, don't fuck off, but this girl I can't.

• 43:10Sabrina Zohar?

  And it was, she writes, fuck you, gringa and deja. Don't you, don't go and insult people and then pretend you're healthy. You fuck yourself, gringa trash. Thirty-six, you look like shit with tattoos like the trash you are. So anybody listening right now, everybody listening can listen to that and go, that bitch is insane. Right? That woman is off her motherfucking rocker. Imagine dating her. Imagine, God forbid, you say something to this person and you get that type of volatility. But that's a great example of, that's dysregulation.

• 43:42Speaker 04

  That's dysregulation.

• 43:42Sabrina Zohar?

  What did you get from that?

• 43:44Speaker 04

  My gosh, where to begin? Where I got from that? I mean, first of all, clearly something you said activated her. Clearly it activated her own wounds and insecurities. I even think the comment is quite interesting to me. It's a reflection of how you feel about yourself. Like there's some preoccupation with age. Do you feel like, does she feel like she's maybe not aging well? Is she, it's, it's very odd, right? Like, but I think where my brain goes is that's a weird message to put in response to this episode. Meaning it's not actually about Sabrina. It's not actually about you. It's about something that this elicited in her. Some wounds, some insecurities, like something got really loud and she didn't have the ability to sit with that or to question that.

• 44:29Speaker 04

  And so what do you do? You attack someone else. You project that onto someone else.

• 44:33Sabrina Zohar?

  Precise.

• 44:34Speaker 04

  Especially the age thing to me is so interesting because to me that feels like a very clear projection.

• 44:39Sabrina Zohar?

  Right?

• 44:40Speaker 04

  Right? Like, that's not what the episode was about.

• 44:43Sabrina Zohar?

  No.

• 44:43Speaker 04

  Why is that on your mind? Like, are you feeling something about yourself or the way you look? And then instead of like actually processing that and making sense of it, you feel the need to attack someone? Like, well, the comment doesn't even make sense because to say you look old is ridiculous.

• 44:57Sabrina Zohar?

  But then you go in and go further, and this is where I use the example of like, these are the people out there in the dating world. That, that claim that they listen to my podcast and they follow me. But the second you say something they don't like, it goes right back to them being a petulant child who clearly has never been told no, or doesn't understand that not everything's going to go your way. And that there are people are going to go, fuck you. How dare you fucking say that to me? Who do you think you are?

• 45:23Speaker 04

  I think that is, that is such a good point here where it's like, this is a person who is consuming your content. Right? That there's, and this is for everyone who's listening, who's like, I'm doing the work. My partner claims they're doing the work. There is a lot of people who say they're doing the work, but they're not, right? And I think that

• 45:39Sabrina Zohar?

  They're cosplaying.

• 45:40Speaker 04

  They're cosplaying. That's actually the perfect word.

• 45:42Sabrina Zohar?

  It's cosplaying.

• 45:43Speaker 04

  It's cosplaying.

• 45:44Sabrina Zohar?

  Cause they project. They project. She's projecting onto me. How dare you insult me? And it's like, but that's what you did. You messaged me out of nowhere to insult me and tell me I look old. When it's like, you wish you fucking looked like me.

• 45:53Speaker 04

  I can't even talk about the craziness of insulting someone and then saying that they are attacked.

• 45:57Sabrina Zohar?

  Yeah. How dare you insult?

• 45:58Speaker 04

  I can't even speak to that level of unwell.

• 46:01Sabrina Zohar?

  And I see that in dating quite often of like, somebody that says, hey, you know, I'm not really feeling this. And all of a sudden they get attacked and you're like, wait, well, how did they become the bad guy? Or why are we dating the same by Facebook groups? Where I'm like, there's so much dysregulation happening because you're desperate for someone else to validate your experience because you can't just sit in it.

• 46:20Speaker 04

  Right. Which is where the issue comes in with the questions that we received, right? Which is like, well, how do I regulate in that moment? When I get the text message, when he says something I don't like, I, that's not the question you need to be asking yourself. I think that's the hard message that I would want to get across to people. The question is not how do you regulate yourself when, you know, the thing happened that you don't like? The question is, how do you support yourself before that? How do you do some work on yourself? How do you stabilize your life? How do you bring in more safety, right? So that when you do have that trigger, you have the capacity to handle it. Because I think that's what's missing in these conversations. It's not just a regulation tool to get your head above water. It's can I come to that point where I'm getting triggered in dating? Cause you will get triggered in dating.

• 47:03Sabrina Zohar?

  Hundred percent.

• 47:04Speaker 04

  Right? But can I come to that point with enough capacity to handle it? And I think your example with your dad, although it wasn't about dating, is the perfect example of that. Like meeting up with your dad after not seeing him for a while was very hard. You got there and you had the capacity to stay connected to yourself, to understand what is this feeling like for me? What do I need in order to handle the situation? And then make choices to have the discernment about what do I do about this? Right? You having a hack about pulling your ear or taking deep breaths would not have been enough. It's the safety that you created. It's the relationships, it's the work you did beforehand that determined, do I have capacity in that moment?

• 47:45Speaker 04

  And again, maybe it's important to note because going back to the question around like, what do I do when a person I'm dating seems great, is lovely, but clearly doesn't have the capacity that it's tempting to wait around. But the truth is like, hear me out. It took so much work for you to get to that point. It takes a lot of time. It takes a lot of effort. It takes a lot of accountability. The question is, is the person you're with, A, or do they have the time, the commitment, the willingness? And do you have the time and willingness to wait around?

• 48:15Sabrina Zohar?

  No, dude, I couldn't agree more. It's like, and I love what you said of, but like, look how long you've ta, look how much work you've put in. How long are you willing to wait and put your life on hold for someone else to figure out if they can even do it?

• 48:26Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 48:27Sabrina Zohar?

  Let's get into our tool of the week and our product of the week. So I want you to tell me, what have, what's your product of the week? What have you just been loving? It could be a fucking peanut butter. It could be a water bottle. I don't care. What have you just found that has helped you kind of just reconnect with yourself? What are you just loving these days?

• 48:41Speaker 04

  Wait, okay, I actually have one. I, I have one instantly. It's going to feel really random, but hear me out. My product obsession is my sleepy tie. Have you ever tried a sleepy tie?

• 48:52Sabrina Zohar?

  No, tell me more.

• 48:53Speaker 04

  A sleepy tie is this hair thing. I can't even explain it. You clip it on up here and then you wrap your hair around it and you sleep with it. And your hair comes out beautiful every morning. And guys, there are a few products that have been more life-changing than this sleepy tie. And like, hear me out. It doesn't seem like it's connected to regulation, but it is because as a mom, no time and energy. I don't even sometimes have time to pick out an outfit, but for me to wake up and for my hair to look nice with zero effort is life-changing. I just, it's like a little boost of confidence. It's just something nice to do for yourself. It takes an extra probably two minutes at night. I am completely obsessed. It has changed my life. Didn't have to do my hair, nothing. Never do my hair anymore. It's amazing.

• 49:35Sabrina Zohar?

  The thing that's like goes around and you wrap your hair?

• 49:37Speaker 04

  You wrap around, it's like these little socks and you put them over. You look like a crazy person when you go to sleep.

• 49:42Sabrina Zohar?

  You look great in the morning.

• 49:43Speaker 04

  I think it's so worth it. Paul's gotten used to it. He thinks it's cute. So we're going with it and it is, it is life-changing.

• 49:49Sabrina Zohar?

  Okay. And then what is your tool of the week, considering what we're talking about? What is something, whether it be your clients that you're encouraging them to do, even if it's set your clock for a minute and takes 10 seconds? I don't care. But what is something outside of obviously duh, read my book? That's definitely tool of the week, but, and go get it if you haven't fucking pre-ordered it by now, baby. Please let this be your sign. I'm begging.

• 50:09Speaker 04

  You can bet all my clients are getting a book.

• 50:10Sabrina Zohar?

  Oh, I'm begging, I'm pleading, I'm, I'm, I'm asking. What are you loving these days? It could be as simple or as complex as you want it to be, but what's your tool?

• 50:18Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's funny with tools. I've kind of gone all over the place. I've gone from having just one or two to having a million and like a really complex routine. But recently, honestly, I've just kind of gone back to the basics. And currently my forever obsession is my journal. And guys, I got the most beautiful pen, thanks to my best friend. He took me on this like gorgeous shopping experience. It got me the most stunning pen and it's a fountain pen. So it's a little bit harder to write with, but it writes so beautifully and I absolutely love that. And by the way, I love that you mentioned that in the book. In the book, you talk about getting out a pen and paper and writing things down because of the bilateral stimulation when you're writing by hand, not typing, none of that. I absolutely love that. I used to journal every day. I don't necessarily journal every day. Now I just bring my journal with me wherever I go.

• 51:03Speaker 04

  And even if I write down a few sentences, it, it's really powerful. Again, just to see your words on paper, to pause there, even like with my pen, I can't like write wherever. I need to like sit down. I need to go slow and it's just been so helpful. I love it.

• 51:17Sabrina Zohar?

  I can confirm the pen is beautiful. I used it. I wrote my name. I loved it. That was so funny. One of my friends, I won't add him on who it is, but he was at a coffee shop and he was writing with a fountain pen. And he's single. He's gorgeous. He's very attractive. Love him. And a woman approached him and she's like, I haven't seen a man use a fountain pen in a long time. You know what this motherfucker's response was? And I haven't seen a woman as beautiful as you without a ring in a long time. And I was like, oh, sure enough. That was it. That was it. And they started talking. Now they've been dating and I was like, oh, I love it.

• 51:44Speaker 04

  There you go.

• 51:45Sabrina Zohar?

  The fucking fountain pen. But that's actually a brilliant example of that's how you can approach somebody out in the wild without it being creepy. Without it being, I did that. Remember, oh, I almost said his name. I do this all the time. The Utah guy, when I saw him at the workout class and I was like, only a straight guy in a sculpt class. I was like, that was a bold move. And then he just turned around. He's like, so you saw me fucking sweating my ass off? And then that was it. We just, and that was the start of it. You don't have to be creepy. You don't have to go and be like, you're hot. You want to fuck? You can just go up and talk and trust me when I say when somebody is available, they will lend themselves to it.

• 52:17Speaker 04

  One hundred percent.

• 52:18Sabrina Zohar?

  They will. They will lend themselves to it. Otherwise you get the my girlfriend or boyfriend very quickly and you're like, cool. Thanks so much. Make it innocent. Make it something that's not about their looks.

• 52:26Speaker 04

  One hundred percent. I will also say on the, to the other party, just having an item that like speaks to your personality or who you are, what makes you unique. Like a really beautiful pen or a really beautiful journal or reading out in public. It makes it easy for people to approach you and they see, they get to learn something about you in those little details. Like having a, something that's a conversation starter, I think is really helpful.

• 52:47Sabrina Zohar?

  That's why I used to wear such obnoxious socks and shoes because I was always hoping I'm like, my, my love will come and acknowledge that. He never did.

• 52:53Speaker 04

  Wait, that's so funny because Paul always tells me, I'm like, what, what is it about you and like wearing nice things? And he's like, they start conversations. That's how I make friends. And I was like, I never thought of that in my life, but

• 53:03Sabrina Zohar?

  Paul and I are very similar.

• 53:04Speaker 04

  Literally the same.

• 53:05Sabrina Zohar?

  Okay. Let's go into some rapid fire. What do you do when somebody tells you that they're not ready for a relationship?

• 53:10Speaker 04

  You accept it. You accept it for what it is and you consider that there's not going to be some magical time, but they're going to become a different person. Especially if they're not telling you, you let it go. You let it go. You don't waste your time. Think about how long it took you to get to where you are. If you want them to get to that place, to build their capacity to have a relationship, to be able to do that when they're telling you that they don't have it, it's going to take a long time and are you willing to waste that time? And realistically, it might actually never happen.

• 53:34Sabrina Zohar?

  You were good before them, you'll be good after.

• 53:36Speaker 04

  Absolutely.

• 53:37Sabrina Zohar?

  What do people have wrong about avoidance and the nervous system?

• 53:39Speaker 04

  Well, first and foremost, avoidance, not necessarily bad people. They are simply who regulate feel safest being alone. So they pull away in order to regulate. That's where they feel safest. Anxiously attached people feel safest with others. So it has nothing to do with being a good person or a bad person, none of that. They just regulate differently. They have different needs and they have different capacity. They have a different capacity for connection.

• 54:02Sabrina Zohar?

  They're not Tamagotchis. These are human beings with their own lived experience. And when we accept that, we either decide, does that work for you or not?

• 54:07Speaker 04

  100%.

• 54:08Sabrina Zohar?

  How do you suggest you regulate when you are dating somebody more avoidant and you're more anxious?

• 54:12Speaker 04

  I actually think that's a really good opportunity for you to work on your piece of it. Likely you're coming in there with a little bit of an anxious attachment. And what do we do in order to heal our anxious attachment? We work on self-regulation. We work on connecting with ourselves, staying true to ourselves. So if your partner is avoidant, but they are wanting to be there, wanting to work on it, this is really your opportunity to reconnect with yourself in a very real way.

• 54:36Sabrina Zohar?

  As somebody who has an avoidant partner, I can promise you, when somebody has the capacity and the willingness to grow, it's a beautiful relationship. But if you're just dating an asshole, ain't nothing gonna change if that person's not willing to do anything about it.

• 54:47Speaker 04

  Yeah. I like that point, though, about like avoidance and capacity.

• 54:51Sabrina Zohar?

  You wanna go deeper?

• 54:51Speaker 04

  I wonder if that's a good idea, just like, because I feel like your people villainize avoidance, right? But we can kind of say like, look, you could be unavoidable, but if you have capacity or willingness to build capacity, that's quite powerful.

• 55:03Sabrina Zohar?

  Okay, let me ask you this. When an avoidant shuts down, is it because they don't care?

• 55:06Speaker 04

  Absolutely not. When an avoidant is shutting down, it is because they are getting overwhelmed. In that moment, they did not have the capacity to meet your needs and stay connected to you. And so they're needing to pull back to connect with themselves.

• 55:17Sabrina Zohar?

  Okay, last question. How do I stop ruminating over the same things over and over?

• 55:21Speaker 04

  First and foremost, realizing you're ruminating is realizing, okay, my nervous system is trying to keep me safe by keeping in my head. So your job is to try to get into your body. Now, getting in your body is probably going to feel really unsafe. That's probably why you're getting up in your brain. So what we want to do is first, create some safety and stability outside of yourself. Think about what are the things that help you come back to yourself in your environment? Being outside, a cozy sweatshirt, whatever it may be. And then, how do we get you to pay attention to what's happening in your body? The goal here is to help you feel safe getting back into your body because you're ruminating to stay out of your body.

• 55:58Sabrina Zohar?

  I can promise you, all of the what-ifs that you have right now going on in your head are not actually helping you.

• 56:03Speaker 04

  Absolutely not.

• 56:04Sabrina Zohar?

  My mom always said, instead of focusing on what if, try to focus on what is. Because especially when you're dating, if you have to focus so heavily on what if, then you probably would be dating with somebody dealing with a different person and what is would be different in front of you. And I was like, that bitch is smart.

• 56:17Speaker 04

  It's so true. And the what if, it's an interesting point about rumination. The what if is you jumping into the future. It's you avoiding the present. And that likely means there's something really important in the present for you to pay attention to, whether it be how you're feeling, whether it be something about the person that you're dating. So the more you could realize that, like, my brain is trying to distract me with the what-ifs, but the answers I'm looking for are probably in the here and now. How do I build the capacity to be in the here and now?

• 56:41Sabrina Zohar?

  Instead of what if, focus on what is. Masha, you know, I could talk to you for literally fucking hours, but we've come to the end of our time. I'm so grateful to have you back on. We'll do it again. But in the interim, where can people find you, work with you? What do you have going on? I know you have something new that you're launching, so could you tell us a little bit more and give everybody a little discount code that they could join you?

• 56:59Speaker 04

  Absolutely. So first of all, thank you so much for having me. So you guys can find me on Masha K on Instagram. That's where I love to share. And we're really excited because we're launching something new, the first in a while, actually. We are launching Befriend. So Befriend is the foundations of the nervous system. You guys probably heard me talk about it a million times, that step one is not rewiring. Step one is befriending your nervous system, your wounds, your triggers. And so now we're releasing that as an eight-week course that you can work through on your own while getting support from me and Sheila. We're really excited about it. This is really like our foundations course.

• 57:32Sabrina Zohar?

  Oh, that's so exciting. All right, do you have a discount code for everybody?

• 57:34Speaker 04

  Of course, you have a discount code. You guys, use the code Sabrina to get $100 off. Of course, the best discount code always goes to Sabrina.

• 57:42Sabrina Zohar?

  Yeah, all right, go join, go understand your nervous system from a different level, especially if this really hits, because there are so many, I wouldn't trust anybody but you to teach me about this. So like, there are so many people out that I see about the nervous system, and I'm like, this is garbage. So if you guys are interested and curious to learn more, go join Befriend. I'm telling you, will not regret this. Perk out of my book, Why Am I Like This? This is your time. And thank you, guys, so much for being here for another episode. Don't forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode again. And guys, I'm so grateful. Thank you for showing up as you and allowing me to show up as me. All right, friends, until next time.

• 58:22Speaker 02

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• 58:53Speaker 06

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