Ruth Langsford: “We all go through sh*t!” My life with divorce and dementia

How do you cope when you’re going through a really rough time? Broadcaster Ruth Langsford has needed a balance of big cries, therapy, and just choosing to dust herself off and get to work. In this chat with Fearne, Ruth talks through the ways counselling and female friendships are moving her through the grief of her divorce. She also shares what she’s learnt about caring for parents with dementia, without overwhelming yourself in the process. Fearne and Ruth compare their experiences of mum guilt, and why it’s so important for young boys in particular to see the women in their life working. Plus, Ruth reveals the sliding doors moment that led her to her TV presenting career... Ruth’s book, Feeling Fabulous, is out now. CONTENT WARNING: This episode contains conversations about grief after suicide. If you liked this episode of Happy Place, you might also like: Kate Winslet https://pod.fo/e/361cc1 Ben West https://pod.fo/e/29cbdf Elizabeth Gilbert https://pod.fo/e/351b04 Child on the line is a three-part documentary podcast series celebrating the Volunteer Counsellors of Childline, and the brave children & young people who contact the helpline service. Listen here: https://www.childonthelinepodcast.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Hi, I'm Natalie Dormer and I'm proud to be an ambassador for Childline. This year, Childline turns 40. To mark it, I've made Child on the Line, a three-part documentary podcast. We hear why children needed a helpline in 1986, how it was built against the odds and the challenges children face today, from abuse and mental health to social media and AI. Search Child on the Line and listen wherever you get your podcasts.

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• 2:11Speaker 06

  Oh love, look, what's the worst that can happen? And I apply that saying to so many times in my life, in things in my life. And he said, I wondered if you'd like an audition? And you know those moments where you go...

• 2:25Speaker 06

  Sorry, me? And you're like, yes, you. I'd never expressed a desire to be on television. And I said, oh, um, um, why me? He went, I don't know, I just thought you might be quite good at it.

• 2:37Fearne Cotton?

  He saw something in you.

• 2:38Speaker 06

  He saw something in me. She went, start doing things for you, because women are so bad at that.

• 2:43Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 2:44Speaker 06

  We go, like, thing, husband, thing, children, parents, work.

• 2:47Fearne Cotton?

  We're last on the list.

• 2:48Speaker 06

  Absolutely last on the list.

• 2:52Fearne Cotton?

  Ruth, I am over the moon to see you. I haven't seen you in real life for ages.

• 2:55Speaker 06

  I haven't, I think the last time I saw you in real life, you were on This Morning.

• 2:59Fearne Cotton?

  God, maybe I was.

• 3:01Speaker 06

  On This Morning, when I was presenting on This Morning. So that's two years ago at least.

• 3:04Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, I think it might have been longer. Well, I'm so happy we get to sit down and have a chat. I must point out, I'm really annoyed that I'm wearing a cream bra and it's visible through my top. I'm ju- I'm just gonna...

• 3:15Speaker 06

  Interestingly, I hadn't noticed that until you pointed it out. Now I would just be staring at your right, left breast.

• 3:20Fearne Cotton?

  I'm annoyed, I'm gonna pack a black bra, for god's sake. Do stare at my boobs.

• 3:23Speaker 06

  Just own it.

• 3:25Fearne Cotton?

  I'm owning it, I'm going with it.

• 3:26Speaker 06

  Charge it, as they say on Love Island.

• 3:27Fearne Cotton?

  I wanted my bra on show, that was my plan.

• 3:29Speaker 06

  It's a cool look.

• 3:30Fearne Cotton?

  Ruth, I loved reading your book so much. It was so, it was such a lovely, comforting and such a real read. I just adored it. The one thing that surprised me initially is, for someone like me, who grew up watching you on TV, you've just always been on the telly. So I had never really questioned, how did you start? How did, what was your initiation? And it was really interesting to hear about you beginning in the gallery, doing timings for presenters on air, and then moving to become a floor manager. And really, you being a broadcaster was sort of an accident.

• 4:05Speaker 06

  It was a complete accident. So, you know, even getting into TV behind the scenes was, you know, quite an accident. I never set out going, I'd like to work for a TV company. I met a woman in our local pub, in a fishing village in Cornwall where my parents were living. I was a very directionless kind of teen. I'd really messed up my exams.

• 4:24Fearne Cotton?

  You got expelled.

• 4:26Speaker 06

  Well, yeah, well, kind of. It always sounds very dramatic expelled, doesn't it? Like I'm gonna have this amazing story.

• 4:32Fearne Cotton?

  Let go.

• 4:32Speaker 06

  I got let go.

• 4:33Fearne Cotton?

  You got let go.

• 4:34Speaker 06

  I got let go. Um, yeah, I did. And my parents were very disappointed. You know, when you say they weren't angry.

• 4:40Fearne Cotton?

  Disappointed's worse.

• 4:41Speaker 06

  The worst.

• 4:42Fearne Cotton?

  So bad.

• 4:43Speaker 06

  You know, that face like so disappointed in you.

• 4:45Fearne Cotton?

  That's horrible.

• 4:46Speaker 06

  It was awful. And suddenly it wasn't funny anymore. You know, when you think you're all like at school, like, I'm so cool and I'm always in trouble and woo hoo hoo. And then suddenly I found myself in this fishing village with disappointed parents at sixteen.

• 4:58Fearne Cotton?

  Not good.

• 4:59Speaker 06

  Not good. I met this wonderful woman and she worked at the local ITV station, which was so long ago, it was called Westwood Television. Some of your listeners might know that, I don't know. Um, and she said, oh, I'll ask if I can set up an interview with, um, you know, a chat really. With the head of personnel or H R now. Probably, none of this would happen now, probably. Charming man. And I was doing shorthand typing course at that time, so didn't know what else to do. My mum said, well, you know, you can temp, at least you'll get some work.

• 5:26Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 5:26Speaker 06

  And, um, he said, oh, keep doing that. Come back to me when you've passed your exams, which I did. And then he said, um, I've got a job for a transmission logist. I went, oh, great, that sounds amazing.

• 5:38Fearne Cotton?

  Perfect.

• 5:38Speaker 06

  That sounds like my kind of job. And that's how I started and I worked in the office. And then part of that job was in the control room. Where they did all the timings and it's all like, and I swear for, and I, they opened the door and they were showing me around. And I walked into that control room and I was like, this is my home. These people are my people. This is where I want to be. It was all, you know, banks of monitors, lights alone, they're like, roll teller's in, he's standby five, coming to you, three, four. I was like, oh. What's this place? It's like Star Trek.

• 6:09Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 6:09Speaker 06

  And I, and that's how I ended up working. So I started off in the office, then I ended up in the control room. And it was all about timings and fitting your local programming in around network programming. Working alongside the continuity presenters who were in vision back in the day. So we had a glass panel, they were in there and I would give them their timings and say, right, you've got, you know, ten seconds into Coronation Street and they, so I kind of saw them working, watched it all, knew how it all worked. And then I was offered this amazing break. So the boss called me up one Friday afternoon, I thought he was going to ask me to do something. Took my shorthand and pad and pen and he said, we need um someone for holiday relief in continuity.

• 6:52Speaker 06

  And I thought he was going to say, can you write up this ad and put it in Broadcast Magazine or something? And he said, I wondered if you'd like an audition. And you know those moments where you go. Sorry, me? And he went, yes, you. I'd never expressed a desire to be on television. I said, oh, um, um, why me? He went, I don't know, I thought, I just thought you might be quite good at it.

• 7:15Fearne Cotton?

  He saw something in you.

• 7:16Speaker 06

  Saw something in me. And he said, look, don't, don't have to answer now, he said, it's Friday. Go and think about it over the weekend, let me know on Monday and if you're interested, I'll set up an audition. And I came out of his office and they had um a phone box booth in the building. I mean, I'm talking, I'm really ancient, in the money in, bit, bit, bit, rang home. And my lovely dad answered. And I was like, dad, guess what? This has just happened, la, la, la. I don't know what to do, what should I do? And he said, oh, love, well, look, what's the worst that can happen? And I apply that saying to so many times in my life and things in my life and always have since then. He said, what's the worst that can happen?

• 7:59Speaker 06

  He went, look, you might be rubbish, it'd be embarrassing for a couple of days. And then everyone will forget about it, you've got a job. Or you might be quite good. He said, have a go.

• 8:11Speaker 06

  And and I always think if my mum had answered, I adore my mum, she's a wonderful woman, still with us fortunately. She's more cautious than my dad. And I think she might have said, oh, you know, well, you haven't got training for that and you know, and it's only part time. And she might have just put a little seed of doubt in my mind.

• 8:30Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 8:30Speaker 06

  My dad was absolutely glass half full man. You went, go for it, do it. What's the worst that can happen?

• 8:36Fearne Cotton?

  I love all those tiny moments of fate that add up to you then doing that pivotal moment.

• 8:43Speaker 06

  Because you know, I love the film Sliding Doors.

• 8:45Fearne Cotton?

  Me too.

• 8:45Speaker 06

  And I've had so many things in my life, well, all of us, I suppose, where you do often think, wonder what would have happened if I'd have said no to that. I wanted to be a floor manager, as you mentioned, so I used to go into the main studio in the evenings and watch, you know, the six o'clock show, whatever they were recording. And I said to the head floor manager, if a job comes up, I'm your girl, I'm on the list because I'm quite bossy and I'm very organised. So I thought, oh, I'd be a good floor manager. You're like, quiet please, stand by.

• 9:11Fearne Cotton?

  Love, yeah, heaven.

• 9:13Speaker 06

  But that never happened because this came along. And so I had the audition and they took me on as a stand in. So, um, and then I had to do a week's training. There was a lovely man called Roger Oranshaw, and he's frightfully posh Roger. And he was training me and I'd had two or three days training, came in in the morning and he'd gone sick. And they said, Roger's not well.

• 9:37Fearne Cotton?

  You're on.

• 9:38Speaker 06

  You're on. I mean, it was literally, you're on. They were ringing round the other continuity presenters who were on days off and couldn't get hold of anybody. And I was on and suddenly I was doing the morning news like this. Good morning, welcome to Westwood Television. Yeah.

• 9:53Fearne Cotton?

  Terrifying.

• 9:54Speaker 06

  Deep end. But the best, best training in continuity then, you switched on your own microphone, you switched on your lights. You had a camera and a big clock underneath. So you're looking at the camera and you could see your peripheral vision, like tick, tick, tick the second hand. So I could count, you know, ten seconds, fifteen, I could feel it. The best training, no script writers. You had to be on standby. Things went wrong all the time.

• 10:17Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 10:18Speaker 06

  Sunday afternoon film would suddenly snap. You'd see the thing going through.

• 10:21Fearne Cotton?

  Oh my god.

• 10:22Speaker 06

  And then it was lights on me and you didn't know how long it was going to be. And, you know, sometimes I'd go chat, chat. Oh, sorry, we'll get, we'll sort that out. But in the meantime, let's look at what we've got tonight. Oh, Harry Seacam and Highway. And I'd look through the window, I'd go, let me just check. And they'd be going.

• 10:39Fearne Cotton?

  God.

• 10:40Speaker 06

  So you learnt to to chat, to talk, to not rely on water queue. I loved it. It was the best job. Absolutely loved it.

• 10:47Fearne Cotton?

  And it set you up so perfectly for everything you've done since. And you have pretty much not stopped working since then, which is no mean feat.

• 10:54Speaker 06

  Well, that's not wood.

• 10:55Fearne Cotton?

  It's not wood. You're tapping metal there, Ruth. But it's no, it's no mean feat. You know, it's very easy to just think, oh, you get one job and you get another. But this game is brutal. It's really harsh and at times you you do feel vulnerable. You don't quite know what's going to happen next. But you have managed to really jump from job to job and still you're still doing a job you love.

• 11:16Speaker 06

  I have, but I've been lots of times out of work that people don't see.

• 11:21Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 11:21Speaker 06

  Um, I'm still freelance. I still have the fear.

• 11:24Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 11:25Speaker 06

  After all these years, I still have the fear. You know what it's like. Everyone thinks, you're doing so well. They see all the good bits, which is wonderful. Don't get me wrong. I absolutely love what I do. Um, and I'm very lucky that I'm still working. But I've had some tricky times, you know, and I've lost my job more than once in television.

• 11:42Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, same.

• 11:43Speaker 06

  Through no fault of my own, I don't think, you know, new programme controller who didn't bring you on, want somebody else. Whole company, we lost our franchise down in the West Country, whole company gone, redundant. That was a scary time. Um, you know, it just happens. A programme comes to an end, you know, oh, you've been on it for a long time. They want a fresh new look. Um, so you have to be pretty resilient, don't you?

• 12:05Fearne Cotton?

  God, you do. Stuff like that, when when you hear that sort of generic feedback of we want a fresh new look. Like, I've been dropped from TV shows and I haven't known until I've watched it and someone else is doing it.

• 12:16Speaker 06

  I've read, I've read about mine in a paper.

• 12:18Fearne Cotton?

  And you think, what's wrong with me? Why, why didn't I get it right? But you do have to start to take it not personally. Otherwise you go mad.

• 12:26Speaker 06

  I always take it personally.

• 12:27Fearne Cotton?

  I, I think I do too. I, I think I do too.

• 12:29Speaker 06

  I mean, I'd love to sit here and go, yeah, you know, I'm very mature about it. I don't take it personally. I absolutely bloody take it personally. I do.

• 12:36Fearne Cotton?

  But it sort of is when you're a presenter, because it's you. You're not, you're not playing a character. It's, it's you. So it is very hard to. Pick yourself back up and chuck yourself back out there. I really enjoyed reading the section about the period after you had your son Jack. And you go into the details of that deliberation of, okay, you've been offered to do the summer cover for this morning. But you've also got a kid and the guilt and the worry that men don't feel. They don't have that pressure on them, that societal pressure, the systemic pressure. But also just like what we've been indoctrinated with as women, that you should be this and feel like this. And I felt it and, you know, I'm, my kids are 10 and 13.

• 13:19Fearne Cotton?

  So I'm not wiping bums, but I still feel like I need to be as present as I can be.

• 13:23Speaker 06

  They need you more, in my opinion, when they're older.

• 13:25Fearne Cotton?

  I think so, you know, the teen bit and I constantly go, oh God, I really want to do that job. But I feel bad because I'm going to be away overnight this night and it's, I'm in the thick of that now. So I really appreciated you writing about that. What, what helped you, because you know, you, you say now you've got this very well rounded young man for a son and.

• 13:44Speaker 06

  Well, I would say that, wouldn't I, but he is, I think he is.

• 13:46Fearne Cotton?

  But he is, and you know, and, and so you don't look back with regret. But at the time, what did help you get through those moments of, oh, I feel terrible, I'm not there?

• 13:55Speaker 06

  You know, you just do, you just have to. And that's why I've written about it in the book as well, because if any younger women read this, and I mean, you know, I work with young producers all the time. Young women who are having their first baby, they've come back to work. And I remember once this morning, I went into the loo and there was a young woman in there crying. And, and she tried to stop crying and I said, oh my God, what's the matter? And she'd just come back after having a baby. And she went, I just feel so bad because I left the baby. And I said to her, I absolutely know exactly how you feel. I said, your baby won't remember any of this. Your baby, I'm sure, will be being looked after by whoever you have chosen to look after him or her. You'd have chosen well.

• 14:37Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 14:38Speaker 06

  They're being fed and nappy changed, they won't remember any of it.

• 14:42Fearne Cotton?

  Right.

• 14:42Speaker 06

  And if this is important to you, to have that feeling of. Fulfillment to work, do it, because actually they won't remember any of this. And this guilt that we carry around, and you're right, no disrespect to men, and there are a lot of single fathers out there doing great jobs. But I do think that women seem to have this guilt. And whether that's, you said, societal pressure, that we've always been the, oh, the mummy, mum's at home and bringing up the children. Yeah. And suddenly mommy's not, she's, she's working. But what happens is she's still doing the majority of the childcare, the looking after the house, the shopping, the thing, the planning. And you ve- you rarely hear men, I'm not going to say never, but you rarely hear men say, oh, I feel

• 15:25Speaker 06

  so bad today, you know, I've, I've had two days away from the kids, you don't. You don't. I got to the point with driving home, that even a red traffic light, and we had a nanny, so I chose a nanny, because I looked at all those childcare options, and a lot of them were the kind of strange hours that we do, it didn't, just didn't work. No. Nurseries, I said, well, I can't drop him off and, because I've got to be at work at eight. No, you're live on the telly, yeah. Yeah, so we had the na- not live in, but I had a nanny who came and, and I thought, well, that's, that's regular person for Jack. Um, but if I, you know, I say, I'll be home at six, if we were running late, then I would be in such a panic. Yeah. And I used to think, I used to worry, which I have written about, that Jack was going to think she was his mum.

• 16:08Speaker 06

  I'm, I was thinking, he's going to bond with her, her smell, everything, her voice, and he'll think that she's his mum, doesn't remember her. She worked for us for two and a half years. He doesn't, sorry. Hope you're not listening to this. I don't mean that, but yeah, she was a fantastic nanny. He doesn't remember it. So this is what I'm saying to these young women, is that, don't beat yourself up, don't do this to yourself, because they won't remember. There are loads of things that from Jack's childhood, you know, very young, where I was guilt ridden. And as you mentioned, when they asked us to do the summer this morning, which hadn't been done before. My absolute first reaction was like, no, I can't do that. Summer holidays, Jack was six or something.

• 16:47Speaker 06

  And Eamonn at the time, quite rightly, said, look, as his dad and parent, I absolutely agree with you. We should say, no, it's summer holidays. We can't do that. He said, however, if I was your agent now, I go, are you mad? They're offering you this fantastic, you know, this morning, five days a week, all through the summer. We'd be mad not to take it. He said, and if we don't, we were doing Fridays then. He said, do you think they'll give it to someone else? And if those people are good, do you think they're going to give us Fridays back? They won't. And he was right.

• 17:17Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 17:18Speaker 06

  And actually, it was fine. Jack was fine with it.

• 17:20Fearne Cotton?

  Of course. And and the judgment would only ever be on you in that, in that couple. From men and women going, oh, well, who's looking after our kid? They would never go, who's looking after his child? And that's the thing that I have to wrestle with. And I even made a decision last week where I said yes to something that I really want to do. And also, you know, it's important that I'm financially on track and I'm on my own and I've got to make sure that I'm doing it properly. But you know, actually, my kids are at an age where I could talk to them. And I said, look, I'm going to take this job. And I'm not going to be around quite as much in June and July. And they were like, yeah, yeah, don't worry. We get it. It's all good. And and we had that conversation, which took a bit of the stress away. But even after this today, I've got three podcasts today.

• 18:04Fearne Cotton?

  And I'm going to kill myself getting home as quick as I can to then race to my mate Ella's house, who's picked up the kids for me, who's going to give them dinner. To then come back and like, try and make up for me having not been there. And it's, we are all pushing ourselves to just.

• 18:19Speaker 06

  And I'm sure if I sat down with your children right now and asked them, you know, does it affect you badly if mum's working? Do you worry? Do you think, where is she? They'd just say, no.

• 18:28Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 18:29Speaker 06

  They'd be fine because they know you love them.

• 18:31Fearne Cotton?

  Absolutely.

• 18:31Speaker 06

  They have a loving family. They know you love them. I actually think it's really good for your children to see you work.

• 18:37Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 18:38Speaker 06

  And particularly young men to say, you know, women go to work now.

• 18:43Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 18:44Speaker 06

  We do not stay at home.

• 18:45Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 18:45Speaker 06

  And bake bread and to clean up after you. And I was really strict with Jack when he was growing up. Maybe I was a bit too hard sometimes because I was so determined to not send another useless mail out into the world. Thinking that a woman is there to fetch and carry and pick up after him. Um, because I've seen women do it with some, they're very different often with sons. You know, they they're like, oh, I'll do that for you, darling. I'm gonna do everything. Um, and don't get me wrong, I love it. When he comes home now, I love nothing more than cooking his breakfast or I'm just like, oh. But when he was young, leaving things on the floor, you know, you had to change his sheets. I was really strict. It's like, because I thought when he meets somebody, he's got a wonderful girlfriend.

• 19:26Speaker 06

  She's not gonna do that, I hope. I mean, I hope the young women now are gonna go, sorry, change your, iron your shirt. Why would I do that? Iron your own shirt.

• 19:34Fearne Cotton?

  Too right.

• 19:35Speaker 06

  So he needed to know that and he can cook, he can iron, you know, he's a very capable young man. Um, and I think that's a responsibility on parents and mothers of sons particularly. Um, that's what I did. I was quite tough on him, you know.

• 19:50Fearne Cotton?

  Um, I think it's a really good way. Like parenting boys is such a different flavour. I've got a girl and a boy and it is completely different. And I could sometimes see myself picking up the slack because my daughter is quite like me. She's organised, methodical, she likes things in a certain way, whereas my son is is not that way inclined. So I have to, rather than go, oh, I'll just pick it up then, actually do the job of, like you say, not sending another young man into the world who's gonna expect everything to be done for them. It's it's so important.

• 20:20Speaker 06

  Actually, if it has been done for them, well, of course they're gonna, it's not their fault.

• 20:24Fearne Cotton?

  They don't know any different.

• 20:25Speaker 06

  And I had a friend, this was years ago, when I worked with, she was one of five children. There were three, sorry, two boys. Yeah, no, sorry, three boys, two girls. All three boys went to private school, the two girls didn't. Like, it's like, we're not wasting a private education on girls. And she said on Saturday mornings, all the boys played sport at their public private schools, rugby and hockey and off they'd go. With dad and the three, the two girls stayed at home with their mum and Saturday was cleaning day. Wow. They used to strip the boys beds, do the cleaning, help them up. And that's how they grew up. Wow. It's like, wowee. So if boys grow up like that, of course, they're going to go out into the world thinking that women pick up after them. Yeah. We don't. We don't, by the way. We, we don't. We don't. And we won't.

• 21:10Speaker 06

  And we won't. We did once, but not anymore. Full bloody stop.

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• 21:44Speaker 01

  Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of the best one yet. Behind every episode, there's research, emails, spreadsheets and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at g o o dot G L E slash Workspace with Gemini. That's g o o dot G L E slash Workspace with Gemini.

• 22:18Speaker 08

  Guessing is for game shows, not your business. Workday is the enterprise AI platform for HR, finance and IT. With AI grounded in your context to get work done and done right. It's a new workday.

• 22:32Speaker 06

  Hello, this is Susie Ruffel.

• 22:34Speaker 09

  And Maisie Adam.

• 22:35Speaker 06

  And together we host Big Kick Energy. Hey Mais, what is it?

• 22:37Speaker 09

  Only the best podcast ever.

• 22:39Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 22:40Speaker 09

  A comedy entertainment podcast with a focus on all things women's football, all things hilarious, all things friendship. It's a laugh is what it is, Ruffel.

• 22:50Speaker 06

  Yeah, and a fair bit of gossiping too.

• 22:51Speaker 09

  Oh, and a lovely bit of gossip. Chow down on the gossip.

• 22:54Speaker 06

  Num, num, num, num, num. You can listen wherever you get your podcasts, just need to search Big Kick Energy.

• 22:59Speaker 09

  Grab a knife and fork and tuck in, baby.

• 23:05Fearne Cotton?

  I also loved reading about your parents. In your childhood, you're part of an army family that moved around a lot. But you talk about, like you say, your mum's still with us. She's ninety four.

• 23:17Speaker 06

  Ninety four.

• 23:18Fearne Cotton?

  Ninety four, what an amazing age.

• 23:19Speaker 06

  I mean, she's got dementia, she's got Alzheimer's. But you know what, she's still great. She's still got a sense of humour, my mum. And yeah, she's lovely, but you know, dementia's tough.

• 23:28Fearne Cotton?

  Well, look, you talk, let's talk about your mum first in that case. You say one of the hardest things is actually leaving when you've been to visit because she doesn't feel settled that she's at home. And that's very tricky. Have you found ways to to deal with that yourself?

• 23:44Speaker 06

  Yeah, that's only started quite recently. So I always say with dementia and Alzheimer's, things change.

• 23:52Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 23:52Speaker 06

  So there's no one size fits all advice to people. So the reason I talk about it all is I hope it will help. And I'm an ambassador for the Alzheimer's Society because they gave us so much help as a family, my mum particularly, when my dad was diagnosed. So I want to give back. And so I just tell people, when my mum does this, I tend to deal with it like this and I find it helps. So this has only just started where when I go to leave now, she, I say, right, you know, the first time it happened, I go, right, I better get off mum. And she, and she goes, oh, right, shall I get my coat? And the first time she did that, I thought, oh, no, she thinks she's coming with me. And I went, oh, no, no, no, no, you don't, you don't need your coat, mummy. Because I'm just, oh, well, where am I going then? I went, oh, well, you're gonna have your dinner now.

• 24:36Speaker 06

  What dinner, what, are you not having dinner? Well, no, and it was awful. And I started to get, oh, this is true, I don't know what to do. So I've got a little system now. So when they, they have their supper at six and I'm there in the afternoon, whatever. And I say to one of the carers, at five to six, can you come and say, so we'll be in her room or in the lounge, whatever we're doing, I always have the dog with me, she loves Maggie.

• 24:58Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 24:59Speaker 06

  Can you come and say, oh, Joan, it's supper and start taking her in? And as she gets up, I just, I do, I make it quick. You know, it's like dropping children at nursery, it's that. I go, don't linger, don't make this difficult. I go, all right, mummy, you're gonna have dinner. I said, I'm just gonna take Maggie for a walk, see you later. So all I say, see you later. I kiss her cheek and I go, I don't look back. It's awful, few times it made me cry and now I'm used to it.

• 25:22Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 25:22Speaker 06

  And so I just go. And don't look back. And she looks, goes like, oh, you're not. And I go, no, no, you give us up. And I'm gone. And I waited, like I used to, it reminded me, I did this with Jack at nursery. I waited outside thinking, she's not going to settle, he's not going to settle. And then I did this through the, they've got like a hatchway into the, they've got a big dining room thing. She was perfectly fine. She was sitting down, just lady next door, talking to her.

• 25:46Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 25:47Speaker 06

  So that's how I've dealt with it. So every time behaviours change, um, I just try and go with it. So she, she does a lot of, um, like if I brought her here, she'd go, oh, yes, I've been here before, haven't I? Because I think I made that lamp. And with my dad, I made so many mistakes with my dad. Um, I said, I don't, when I say mistakes, because we didn't understand outside.

• 26:14Fearne Cotton?

  You didn't know.

• 26:15Speaker 06

  We didn't know. And I thought I was helping my dad by trying to help him remember things. So I was constantly using the word remember to him. I'd go, dad, remember when we went to that, you know, thick party and I've dropped my ball in the river and you had to go in. And he'd be looking blankly at me and I go, you must remember, dad, remember, I had that lovely red ball that grandma, but you must remember that, daddy. Remember, remember, remember, remember. You don't remember. You can't remember.

• 26:42Fearne Cotton?

  But you, you want that for your own nervous system to calm down. Like, please show me a sign of, of something.

• 26:49Speaker 06

  I think I was in denial when it hap- when he was diagnosed. I didn't want it to be true. I adored my dad. He was a great raconteur storyteller. We were very close, very similar characters, really close. And I, I was in denial, if I'm honest, and I look back. So I was all like, remember, remember, remember, remember. With my mum, I'm so different because my dad would say something like, oh, yes, I've been here and ma- I made that lamp. I'd go, no, you didn't, dad. You couldn't have made that lamp. And then we'd get into a bit of a, because I thought I was trying to help him going, of course you couldn't have made that. How could you have made that? He'd go, I absolutely bloody did. My mum says it now and I go, oh, did you? It's lovely. She goes, yeah, and this, I made this as well. I go, it's lovely, mum.

• 27:32Speaker 06

  And then we move on. Done, easy.

• 27:35Fearne Cotton?

  I think it's so important for other people to hear that. I've got two friends that I'm thinking of right now who are going through, they're in the trenches with it at the moment. Probably at about the same level of dementia and, you know, both wrestling with that and, and, and accepting it. And also the role reversal that happens.

• 27:54Speaker 06

  Huge.

• 27:55Fearne Cotton?

  That's huge, you know, and, and like you say, with the sandwich generation, you're often looking after kids, teenagers. And then you become the protector and the carer for the parent and that is burdensome. How, how do you deal with that level of weight that you're carrying at that time?

• 28:11Speaker 06

  Again, I think with any situation, like we were saying about being a working parent, you just do.

• 28:19Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 28:20Speaker 06

  But I found it very difficult that's, because I had Jack later, you know, I was forty two by the time I had Jack. My dad had, was in the early stages of dementia then. It was very early stages, but he had been diagnosed. And I always remember them coming to stay with us and Jack was only about two. And he was on the kitchen floor with some wooden bricks, you know, and he was piling them up and knocking them down laughing. And my dad shouted at him because my dad's dementia, he thought that that was naughty behaviour. And so I was doing something with my mum. I didn't know what we were doing. We were all in the kitchen together, fortunately. And Jack went, whoa, knock the bricks over. My dad went, oi, oi, stop that.

• 29:01Speaker 06

  And this, and I think he leant over all my, if he was gonna not smack him, but you know, to, and Jack looked horrified. My mum rushed over and went, Dennis, Dennis, and I went, dad, it's okay. And it was a horrible moment because I thought my dad would never have done that. He would have been the best grandad for Jack, you know, he went sailing and fishing, he'd have done all those things. Jack didn't really know him and was thinking, why is this man shouting at me? It was a really horrible moment. And after that, I used to kind of keep them slightly separate because I could see if Jack was being noisy and not, you know, as a two year old. Being a kid. It was. Irritating my dad. And so I found that very difficult. And I will say to people that role reversal, like you said.

• 29:44Speaker 06

  You suddenly become the parent and it's it's subtle to start with and it's a really difficult change. Um. And the worst thing, I think, for me and for many people I talk to as an ambassador for Alzheimer's Society. Is the terrible, awful, awful um decision to put someone in a care home.

• 30:05Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 30:06Speaker 06

  It's the hardest thing for everyone. You feel guilty, you think everyone's judging you. You think I shouldn't be working, you know, I should give up work and and have my dad live with us and I should do all this. And a wonderful um lady at my mum's, when my my father went into a care home, said to my mum. You can go back to being his wife now, Joan. Isn't that lovely?

• 30:30Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 30:31Speaker 06

  And I thought, yeah, because she's been the carer, the wiper upper, the thing that, come on. And she's now, they do all that and she goes to see him and it, but it was, she struggled and it took. My sister and I felt guilty because we knew it was time and my mum was becoming ill herself.

• 30:50Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 30:51Speaker 06

  Not sleeping.

• 30:51Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 30:52Speaker 06

  My dad was getting up in the middle of the night and trying to get out the house and then he flushed his pyjamas down the toilet one night, flooded the bathroom, you know. And she was dealing with all that, also not telling us. Because she was like, didn't want to bother you. You're both so busy, didn't want to bother you. What could you have done? It's two o'clock in the morning. And we knew it was time and they, she had um a health worker. And we said to her, she said, look, we're we're concerned about your mum. I said, listen. If you're waiting for my mum to call you and say, I can't cope with Dennis, can you come and get him? Hell will freeze over. This will never happen. And I said, we're gonna have to find another way.

• 31:34Speaker 06

  And they did, they, he went into a care home, he used to go in for respite occasionally. And while he was there, they said to my mum, oh, a place has become available. He was already there.

• 31:46Fearne Cotton?

  Hmm.

• 31:46Speaker 06

  So she didn't have that awful pack his bag and take him. And once, once she knew, once he was settled and she knew he was okay, and we said to her, Daddy needs twenty four hour care mum, and you can't possibly give him that. And he would not want you to become ill looking after him. He wouldn't want that for you. You know he wouldn't want that. But it's a really, really awful.

• 32:09Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 32:10Speaker 06

  Um, awful situation. I had somebody on um Twitter or Instagram once, because I post quite a lot about my mum. Dancing in the kitchen, doing the veg. She doesn't do that so much, nor now, she's much older, but. Um, and somebody put, you know, it's all the comments, oh, we love your mum, we love watching your mum, and someone put, Oh, if she loves her mum so much, why doesn't, why is she in a care home, why is she not living with her? I, how I didn't.

• 32:35Fearne Cotton?

  I would have flipped.

• 32:36Speaker 06

  Well, can you imagine one of those, like, because I don't really reply to those kind of things, because you give them oxygen, don't you? But I was back, I was like, how dare you? You have no idea of my mother's medical needs, her requirements, how dare you? And then, of course, everyone then jumps on. Then I felt bad because it was a pile on.

• 32:56Fearne Cotton?

  I'm sorry, that person has no right to, to comment on that.

• 32:59Speaker 06

  But it just showed how much it hurt.

• 33:01Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 33:01Speaker 06

  Those things, because you're feeling all that yourself. And then someone goes, oh, yeah, if you love her so much, why is she not living in your house? So it, it, it's a very, very hard thing for people, and I see it all the time. New people coming into my mum's care home, you know, going around, I do lots of things for Alzheimer's, the memory walk every year, and I chat to people, and that's the, The one thing people talk about the most is, oh, you know, and they'll feel so bad and they're in a care home and so don't you, you, It's done with love. You're doing this with love.

• 33:32Fearne Cotton?

  You want them to be completely comfortable and safe and cared for. And alongside all of this deliberation and trying to reconcile with the decision, you're also slowly losing that person. They're still there. But they're not recognisable often in terms of their personality, and I think that must be incredibly hard to to deal with.

• 33:53Speaker 06

  I think the hardest for me was when I realised my dad didn't actually know it was me, his daughter. And it was quite subtle, you know, so I'd always go, hi daddy. And then I just, I just knew one day, I could see in his eyes. He doesn't actually know I'm his daughter. I think he, he thinks I'm just, he stopped calling me, he used to call me Ruthie. And or Ruthie Tootie. Um, so when I'd go, go, hi daddy, oh, Ruthie. And suddenly he didn't do that one day. And I've looked and thought, he just thinks I'm a nice lady who's bringing him his favourite Maltesers and. Cake. And then I had to go, but that's all right. Because I know who he is.

• 34:33Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 34:33Speaker 06

  And I'm here and, you know. Um, but it's hard and my mum a hundred percent knows it's me. And in fact, when I arrive, if she's in the lounge or something. And I see her and go like this, she goes. And then I, I see her turning to, this is my daughter, it's my daughter.

• 34:51Fearne Cotton?

  So lovely.

• 34:52Speaker 06

  And then she says exactly the same thing. Oh, my goodness, what a lovely surprise. How did you know I was here every time? And before, again, this is things you learn. I used to go, what do you mean? How do I know you were here? Now I go, oh, the lady downstairs told me.

• 35:06Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 35:06Speaker 06

  Oh, well, you're just passing. I went, yeah, yeah, I was just passing. I just thought I'd pop in. Because there's no point saying, what do you mean?

• 35:13Fearne Cotton?

  And it's stressful for you and her to keep contesting it constantly. I think, again, for people who are, this is early days for them. This is important stuff to hear, to to to get through it.

• 35:24Speaker 06

  Awareness, you know, you talk about your two friends, you know, if there's something in my book that they read and go, oh, that's interesting, I won't do that. And the Alzheimer's Society really helped my mum and they um got the Plymouth branch, because she was living in Plymouth then or near Plymouth. Um, they got in touch with her and then they had the um dementia cafes and things and they invited her to come along with my dad. And then she met other partners, husbands and wives. And then they were a bit like, you know, it was, it's his, it becomes quite childlike.

• 35:55Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 35:55Speaker 06

  That, you know, when you go to nurseries or mums and toddler groups and you go, honestly, I just can't get mine out of the bath. And they go, oh, well, what I do is I do this.

• 36:03Fearne Cotton?

  You just need people that get it.

• 36:05Speaker 06

  People that get it. So then my mum was talking to somebody and said, oh, he keeps doing this. They went, oh, well, what we do, what I've done is this. So. By me talking about it very openly, going to events, writing about it in my book, talking to people at the memory walk. You hope that you just plant these little seeds that that that might never happen to them. Their husband or wife might not ever get up in the night and flush their pyjamas down the toilet. But if they do, you know, they they might learn something from talking to other people. And everything is about awareness now, isn't it?

• 36:37Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 36:38Speaker 06

  But, you know, there's, I mean, very little funding and things for Alzheimer's, but we try.

• 36:42Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I mean, it like you say, when when your dad was first diagnosed and you and you didn't quite understand what was going on. That awareness could have helped hugely. So I think it's so brilliant that you're talking about it. And equally, in the book, you're not afraid to dive into talking about grief, which has obviously been just such a huge part of this chapter of your life, losing your dad and also your sister to suicide. It it, you know, reading that chapter about your sister was just so moving and beautiful, how you describe her and and and talk about the loss. What do you think has helped you with your grief, which I know is not something that you one day get over? It's something that you're you live with.

• 37:23Speaker 06

  I think.

• 37:33Speaker 06

  Suicide is just.

• 37:38Speaker 06

  It's such a tragedy. And the people left behind are just left not knowing. Not knowing why. And your, you know, your question is just why?

• 37:52Speaker 06

  Why, why, why?

• 37:55Speaker 06

  And then as time has gone on.

• 37:59Speaker 06

  I've accepted that I'll never know why.

• 38:03Speaker 06

  And nothing will bring her back. And so I, the only way that I can.

• 38:13Speaker 06

  Make any sense of it and stop it hurting.

• 38:19Speaker 06

  It's it's to just know she didn't want to be here. And nothing I could have done could have changed that really. Because you think. If only I should have rung her more, I should have done this, I should have come down you. You just think you could have done something. Why didn't we see it? How could we not have seen it? Why didn't she talk to us? Why? Why? Why?

• 38:43Speaker 06

  And um. And there are no answers. Because she'll never be able to tell us why.

• 38:51Speaker 06

  And I, you know, I just miss her.

• 38:56Speaker 06

  So much.

• 39:00Speaker 06

  But.

• 39:02Speaker 06

  I know she would not want me to have a sad life. And I um.

• 39:08Speaker 06

  I did a lot of crying, I did a lot of time off work. And then I thought she she doesn't want this for you. Don't do this. Need to get back out there. And actually, work has always been my saviour, actually. To.

• 39:24Speaker 06

  Just get back to work and have some structure.

• 39:27Fearne Cotton?

  Thank you.

• 39:27Speaker 06

  I know. Oh, thank you very much. To have some structure.

• 39:32Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, you say.

• 39:33Speaker 06

  Get up in the morning, you know.

• 39:35Fearne Cotton?

  Like going back to Loose Women, a show that you've worked on for two decades. You've got an amazing bevy of women. You've got an eyelash.

• 39:44Speaker 06

  I've got an eyelash come off.

• 39:45Fearne Cotton?

  You've got a you've got a whole bevy of women that care about you deeply. And for all the bullshit press stories that are written about handbags that go on behind the scenes. These women welcomed you back with open arms and gave you the time and space to do that in your way.

• 39:59Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 40:00Fearne Cotton?

  And that's.

• 40:00Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 40:01Fearne Cotton?

  Beautiful.

• 40:01Speaker 06

  And you're right, we do get, I get so angry when I read those. Things, you know, they just love to pit women against women. They just it was like, why can you not believe that a group of women? Can actually get on and like each other.

• 40:14Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 40:14Speaker 06

  Have difference of opinions and, you know, there are there are a lot of loose women, so. There are some you prefer to work with and others, just because you maybe know them longer or you get on a bit better. But they're all wonderful. But I, yeah, when I went back to Loose Women.

• 40:29Speaker 06

  And this morning, you know, I was working at this morning as well with Eamonn, so I had Eamonn's support, knowing that, you know, he's got me.

• 40:35Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 40:35Speaker 06

  If I can't do something or I think I'm gonna go, he's, he's got me. And Loose Women were the same, that I, I just knew that they wouldn't expect me to talk about, I mean, look at me, I, I thought I can't go on television and just sob, it's just horribly uncomfortable for everybody. And it wasn't because I didn't want to talk about my sister, or talk about the tragedy of suicide, or how one feels or copes. I just couldn't, I just can't do it without crying all the time, and my eyelashes falling off.

• 41:04Fearne Cotton?

  But nor should you, nor should you.

• 41:07Speaker 06

  No, so I, I did feel, I think I said in the book, I just felt like I was being hugged. I remember going back and just everyone like this, I didn't even have to say anything. And I couldn't talk about it on air.

• 41:19Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 41:19Speaker 06

  And, you know, I have mentioned my sister as time's gone on, but I can't really talk about it properly.

• 41:26Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 41:27Speaker 06

  Um, but having that support, and also it's not just the women, because obviously you know what people don't see is your, your team, your production team, and we're a very close team at Loose Women. And obviously they hear, the producers and researchers, they hear all our conversations in the morning, and we're a tight group. So it wasn't just the women, it was all of them. Not expecting me, no producers pushing me, you know, like it would be good airtime, wouldn't it? Get, at least have a little cry on the telly, never, never, never. So, yeah, I'm very thankful for that. And the other thing is, you know, people have said to me, oh, it must be so hard, you know, um, you know, with your sister dying, your dad, or getting divorced, it must be very difficult doing your job.

• 42:09Speaker 06

  And I said, it's no more difficult than if I worked in a bank, or on the checkout at the supermarket, or I was a bus driver, because we all have shit going on in our lives, and we all have to go to work and, you know, you do your job, whatever it is, with that going on in the background, so it's nothing, you know, somehow they go, oh, poor you being on the television going through that, I go, well. I'd have been going through it wherever I was working.

• 42:33Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 42:33Speaker 06

  And then some day having to go, right, come on, you'd get back to work now, pull yourself together. So.

• 42:39Fearne Cotton?

  And like you say, that the routine, the structure, the familiarity of the people and you know how the day is gonna go.

• 42:45Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 42:46Fearne Cotton?

  That, that is helpful. If you can lean into that and you know you're safe to do so. That is, that is some structure that you, you cannot find when you're grieving or when you're going through a tough time. Cause everything is chaotic. That's the nature of it, that it's very, very hard.

• 43:00Speaker 06

  Unreal, you know.

• 43:01Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 43:02Speaker 06

  When I just remember thinking, why, why is everybody going about their business and things and smile? I thought I'd never ever smile again, you know, and then you do. And so you, it, it's just like the darkest, darkest times, isn't it? And so that's for me, it's always been work. And obviously under my amazing friends, family, you know, just holding you up. My friends just held me up.

• 43:26Speaker 06

  But going back to work for me is just like, right, come on, stop crying now. I would cry massively in the shower in the mornings. I would have a proper, you know, snotty boo hooey. That kind of crying. And then it was almost, I would tell, give myself talking to her, come out of the shower and go, right, stop now, cause you're gonna have puffy eyes, stop. Come on. And then I could do that. Dry my hair, da da da, go to work, do the thing, get in the car, go home and then cry again.

• 43:52Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 43:52Speaker 06

  And each time it just got easier.

• 43:55Fearne Cotton?

  I think it's so important to allow yourself to feel it, to really lean in and go, I'm gonna. Weep or if it's anger, shout, scream, whatever, get it out of you. And then there's a time where. You have to go about your day and you have to get it done. And then if you need to fall apart again at the end. You let yourself, I think when we, we go, no, I mustn't, I, I must carry on and be stoic. That's when you're in trouble, cause it's, it's stored in your body, you're tense.

• 44:19Speaker 06

  It's bad for you.

• 44:19Fearne Cotton?

  It's really bad for you.

• 44:23Speaker 02

  I've got big news. I switched to Verizon and got the new iPhone 18 Pro. Shh. I can keep my old phone and I also get the latest iPhone every year. Shh, anything else? Verizon let me choose Apple Watch Series 12 or iPad on them. Everybody, listen up. Shh. Switch to Verizon and get the new iPhone 18 Pro now. No trade in needed and the latest iPhone every year with Simplicity Plan. Plus, choose Apple Watch Series 12 or iPad on us. Simplicity Plan with Simplicity Pro required. Plan and device payment purchase are separate agreements with separate terms. Service plan for watch or iPad required. Additional terms apply for all offers.

• 44:53Speaker 01

  Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of The Best One Yet. Behind every episode, there's research, emails, spreadsheets, and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs, and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at goo.gle/workspacewithGemini. That's goo.gle/workspacewithGemini.

• 45:27Speaker 04

  It's time. It's the most wonderful time of the year. Halloween.

• 45:35Speaker 05

  And you guys know we don't do Halloween by halves. Full costume, full prosthetics, full commitment. I'm a rat. And I'm the chef. It's our Ratatouille special. Then we're grabbing our broomsticks for the witches.

• 45:48Speaker 05

  We've got a spooky hotline caller. An update from our woman who was in love with the ghost of Prince Albert. And your tarot card dial levers. Listen to our Halloween specials. Search for The Girl's Bathroom.

• 46:04Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, you know, I'm not going to sit here and quiz you about divorce. I'm getting divorced. No one wants to talk about their divorce. We shouldn't ever feel the pressure in an interview setting to be quizzed about it, to be asked about it. It's private, it's unsettling. And everything that anyone who's been through it would understand it is. But what I am interested in, again, is what has held you up in the times where you've felt very wobbly? Again, for people who are going through it or are having those days where they feel like, I can't get out of bed. This is, this is too much.

• 46:38Speaker 06

  Uh friends, first and foremost, amazing group of friends. Um I've got a very small group of girlfriends, um some I've known from from the school. And a few I've gathered along the way like you do, um and they, my sister died at the same, amazing. Uh so friends really there for me, um and and counselling.

• 47:01Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 47:01Speaker 06

  Therapy, which I haven't done before, and that was through a very good friend who said to me, you know. Would you think about seeing, she she had a therapist going through her divorce, it's years ago. And I and I was a bit like, I don't need a therapist to tell me I'm sad, my marriage has ended. And she's like, please, and she went on and on, please, honestly, I think it would help you, it helped me so much just to get some clarity. I was like, no, and eventually, I just to shut her up, genuinely to shut her up, I went, fine. She said it's Zoom, she's in Manchester, and she said it's on, it's in Zoom, on Zoom. And if it's it's not for you, if you don't gel, you don't like it, I will shut up. And I was like, fine.

• 47:43Speaker 06

  Set up this meeting, it's the best thing I've ever done, the best thing I've ever done. I actually wish I'd done it now when my sister died, but I didn't. But some of that's coming out now anyway.

• 47:54Fearne Cotton?

  I'm sure it is, because you, I mean, I've been on and off in therapy for years and years, but but regularly the last two years. And and that for me has been a game changer to go every, whatever day it is, I go. And there's no getting out of it, or or I can't, it's you go and it's one hour of your day. And it it's been life changing. And I think, like you say, you go in for one thing. And then all this other stuff comes up, like from the past, or might be other things that you're still not quite settled with. And it's such an amazing opportunity to actually look at it, all the stuff that you're just going, Donna, look over there, that's too scary, or that's too painful. To really get stuck into it. How do you think it's it's changed your life or your mindset maybe?

• 48:37Speaker 06

  I think it made me take the anger away a little bit. Um because you used to be angry and anger doesn't really get you anywhere, it just makes you all like.

• 48:51Speaker 06

  And she's like, you know, you just need to try and take that energy and put it somewhere else.

• 48:57Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 48:58Speaker 06

  Um I think that with your girlfriends.

• 49:03Speaker 06

  Good friends, they're always on your side. They're like my cheerleaders, you know, so if I go, ah, hate him, or they go, yeah, we hate him too. Or whatever it is, you know, this is wrong. It's not my fault. They go, no, of course it's not your fault, blah, blah, blah, all that. That's what girlfriends do, don't we? We're championing our girlfriends. And that's what they did. And also they just allow me to cry and blub and all those things they do. I think with therapy is that she doesn't know us. And obviously she's seen Aimee and I on the TV, but she doesn't know us at all. And so they don't take sides at all. Um, she just lets me talk and then just leads you in certain directions. They don't even tell you what to do.

• 49:44Speaker 06

  Well, you know, I'm tense, you know, to be preaching to the converted here, but she never says, well, do this or don't do that. She says, well, you know, you've got to think of this and protect yourself and what about that? And um, she says to me now, because I don't, I was doing it once a week and then sometimes twice a week. And now it's much less, but still there and you know, and she says, you can call me anytime. So we have a session and she'll say, what should we say, six weeks? I go, okay. She goes, of course you can call me, which I have done. Something's come up and I've called her, but the times in between are getting longer, which is great. Um, but I always have her words, these little mantras in my head.

• 50:24Speaker 06

  And she said to me, I didn't see, I only saw the top of your head for the first three sessions because I was crying so much. She was literally like. And um, one of the very first things she said to me is, um, you know, your marriage is over. It was quite blunt. And I was a bit kind of, I went, I, I know. She said, well, you know, until you accept that, you, you're not going to find it easy to move on. That stuck with me in a lot of things, actually, not just a divorce, but my dad, I was saying, I didn't want to accept he had Alzheimer's. Once you accept it and go.

• 51:00Fearne Cotton?

  The fight's over.

• 51:01Speaker 06

  Fight's over. It's like he's got it or your, your marriage is over. You go, oh yeah, oh gosh, yes, it is, isn't it? So where, what should we do now? Where should we put this energy? You've got this sadness or this anger. And then one of the other things she said, which has stuck with me very vividly is, um.

• 51:21Speaker 06

  When you're feeling, you know, you're in a dark place and you can't see any light really, or happiness, and you feel low and it's gloomy. Jesus said to me, just find your light, just look over up there and there's a little, it might be a little tiny pinprick of light, just tiny. Focus on that, come away from there, come away from that anger, take that energy, and let's put it over there, there's, there's your light, it's just there, can you see it? And you go, oh, and I can, that really helped me, every time I was feeling really low, despairing, what's to become of me, I did a lot of that. That has been very interesting, because I thought, why did I do that, like, you know,

• 52:03Speaker 06

  oh my god, what's going to become, I'm on my own, oh my god, you know, it's like some Victorian lady. And then I thought, what am I saying here, am I saying, what am I going to do because I haven't got a man? That's kind of what I'm saying, isn't it really? Because I'm alone a lot of the time in my house and, you know, I'm a very capable woman.

• 52:22Fearne Cotton?

  Yep.

• 52:22Speaker 06

  Um, in lots of areas, you know what I mean, I drive a thing, I've got a job. So I thought, what am I saying? And that stopped me a bit in my tracks. I thought, there's some conditioning here, that's, I need to have a man

• 52:34Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 52:35Speaker 06

  in my life to feel complete in any way. And, you know, listen, I'm not a man hater. I'm not, this has not turned me into like, I don't want a man in my life, I hate men, I don't. But it just made me think, why am I feeling like this? I'm feeling so scared of being alone, there's this fear, and, and I couldn't see a happy light. I was just like, oh my god, I'm on my own.

• 52:59Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 53:00Speaker 06

  What's to become of me, Fern?

• 53:02Fearne Cotton?

  But it's so amazing when you have that real, I've had it a couple of times recently, where like I took the kids to centre parks on my own, and that was a bit of a fear, like taking the kids anywhere on my own, and I was like, I did it.

• 53:12Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 53:12Fearne Cotton?

  Fucking did it. I had a great time, like, we're, we're so much more resilient than we care to believe. And actually, you say two things at the end of the book that I bloody love. One of them was you simply say, Ruth, well bloody done. And I love that you said that, like, you, you can reach that point where you're proud of yourself, and we're not conditioned to do that, we're always. You know, highlighting our flaws and looking at things we've done wrong. To get to a point where you go, well, bloody done is a really good thing. And also, you say that you now do feel there's a really exciting new chapter ahead, which made me buzz and tingle with joy.

• 53:46Speaker 06

  I don't know what it is.

• 53:47Fearne Cotton?

  Who cares?

• 53:48Speaker 06

  I haven't planned it and I definitely feel that the the dark cloud is lifting. It's not gone completely, but it's lifting and I'm going, oh, look, there's blue sky over there. Oh, look, sunshine, there's some light and I'm feeling that. I'm just thinking, well, who knows what's going to happen? And and and everybody's obsessed with like, well, have you been dating? Have you got friends to set you up?

• 54:13Fearne Cotton?

  None of your business.

• 54:15Speaker 06

  Literally, no. I don't mind saying, again, haven't been put off men, haven't been put off love, haven't even been put off marriage. But am I looking, am I dating, am I on apps? Absolutely no. Have I said to a single person, have you got any friends? Could you set me up because I'm really okay right now? Because I'm not through the process, I know I'm not. And I don't need that at the moment. Um, however, you know, I might walk out of here today, bump into somebody, go, oh, I'm so sorry. Eyes meet and who knows?

• 54:47Fearne Cotton?

  Who knows? How exciting.

• 54:49Speaker 06

  And that's lovely. And I don't just mean about romance and love, I just mean in life, my life generally. I don't know what's gonna happen. I've got a book. I mean, you know, I've got a book.

• 54:58Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 54:58Speaker 06

  Never thought I'd do a book. And it's not all about my divorce, as you know.

• 55:02Fearne Cotton?

  No, it's got all sorts.

• 55:03Speaker 06

  Sorry, Sam, it's about my life, though. It's about all sorts of things. And so I now have this feeling of this is a new chapter. It might be an exciting chapter. I don't know where it'll take me. I've got to find the happiness. And the other thing my counsellor said to me is, start doing things for you. That's why I went back to Pilates. She went, start doing things for you because women are so bad at that.

• 55:27Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 55:28Speaker 06

  We go, well, seeing a husband, seeing children, parents, work.

• 55:31Fearne Cotton?

  We're last on the list.

• 55:32Speaker 06

  Absolutely last on the list. Jack's left home now, you know, so I don't have to worry about, I mean, I always worry about your kids, but, you know, I haven't got that day to day like you have. And so I'm now making myself connect with friends that I maybe haven't seen for a while. We've been a bit lazy about getting together. Went started to Pilates again, which I'm loving. Planning a few trips with some friends, that you've got to start doing that yourself and create your happiness, because if you sit at home crying, watching Coronation Street, which I love, by the way. I love doing that, it's one of my joys. But nobody's gonna knock on the door and say, are you lonely, you know. You've got to start looking outwards for yourself. So the therapy, I would highly recommend.

• 56:17Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 56:18Speaker 06

  I'm a bit of a convert now.

• 56:20Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 56:20Speaker 06

  And and it's really interesting how many people are want to talk about it. So on my book tour. You know, so many people are saying, oh, you know, you have therapy. And I met a wonderful woman, she was a retired psychotherapist. And she said to me, I just want to say thank you for talking about it, because people don't often. They seems to have, they feel there's some kind of shame of saying I'm having therapy, as in, you know, you can't cope. And I was like, well, I couldn't cope.

• 56:45Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 56:46Speaker 06

  I was in a bad place.

• 56:47Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 56:48Speaker 06

  And that person.

• 56:48Fearne Cotton?

  And you did something about it.

• 56:49Speaker 06

  Did something about, or my friend did, actually.

• 56:51Fearne Cotton?

  Um, yeah, well, I am, I feel so happy hearing you talk and excited for you as to what's to come. And it's just amazing to see how you've navigated it all and to read about it. And I just, I loved it. It was like, the whole book was just like a gorgeous, warm hug. I, I, I really, really loved it. And before we wrap up, there's two things I want to ask. The first is, we're making a happy place playlist. So really happy songs that make us feel great, make us wanna get up and move about. What would your song be?

• 57:25Speaker 06

  I like Dancing in the Moonlight.

• 57:26Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, I love that song.

• 57:27Speaker 06

  That would always get me up.

• 57:29Fearne Cotton?

  That's a great song.

• 57:29Speaker 06

  That would always get me up. And what's the song that's called Happy?

• 57:34Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, yeah, Pharrell.

• 57:35Speaker 06

  Pharrell. That, you know, when that plays, it makes you happy, doesn't it? You're suddenly clicking your fingers. I love music. I mean, music is therapy to me. And I, I love cooking, I love music. So, so I'm often in my kitchen with the tunes up, up, up.

• 57:49Fearne Cotton?

  That's my favourite day. A Sunday cooking with music on, heaven.

• 57:53Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 57:53Fearne Cotton?

  And where is your happy place?

• 57:55Speaker 06

  Home, literally. I mean, it sounds a bit of a cliche, but I'm so busy that I'm not at home as much as I'd like to be. And I love a day, I call it pottering.

• 58:06Fearne Cotton?

  Pottering.

• 58:07Speaker 06

  Pottering.

• 58:08Fearne Cotton?

  I love pottering.

• 58:08Speaker 06

  And so what have you done? I go, I don't know, I've just been pottering about.

• 58:10Fearne Cotton?

  Pottering about.

• 58:11Speaker 06

  Pottering about.

• 58:13Fearne Cotton?

  Is there anything better?

• 58:14Speaker 06

  Nothing.

• 58:14Fearne Cotton?

  So this is the, this is the scenario, walk in the door, bra off, that has to come off.

• 58:19Speaker 06

  Every time.

• 58:19Fearne Cotton?

  Literally get it off.

• 58:21Speaker 06

  Every woman I know.

• 58:22Fearne Cotton?

  It's annoying me.

• 58:23Speaker 06

  Curling the fringe for me.

• 58:25Fearne Cotton?

  Curling the fringe. And then, and then just pottering, just tidying, placing things, putting dishwasher.

• 58:30Speaker 06

  I just might just go like this.

• 58:31Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, exactly, moving, moving tiny amounts, moving things just in a 30 degree angle. Oh, I love it.

• 58:38Speaker 06

  And then sometimes I like quiet because we, you know, I've got a busy life and we're always talking.

• 58:42Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 58:43Speaker 06

  Talking, talking, talking to people, meetings, silence to me. So I have, you know, sometimes chains are banging and then sometimes I go.

• 58:50Fearne Cotton?

  Same.

• 58:51Speaker 06

  Absolute silence, papers, cup of tea, a book, silence is golden.

• 58:56Fearne Cotton?

  That is the dream.

• 58:57Speaker 06

  So home for me.

• 58:58Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I hear you on that one. I love that. Well, Ruth, I have adored talking to you.

• 59:04Speaker 06

  Oh, thank you. Well, I love the podcast and I've always thought it would be nice to be on it one day.

• 59:07Fearne Cotton?

  Oh my God, I'm so thrilled you are. And thank you for being just totally yourself.

• 59:12Speaker 06

  Thank you.

• 59:12Fearne Cotton?

  Because it's massively helpful to me and many other people out there. Thank you, Ruth.

• 59:17Speaker 06

  By the way, did Kate Winslet sit here?

• 59:19Fearne Cotton?

  Not in that exact chair, I'm so sorry.

• 59:22Fearne Cotton?

  That's different studio sadly.

• 59:24Speaker 06

  Gutted.

• 59:25Fearne Cotton?

  Oh Ruth, I love you so much.

• 59:27Speaker 06

  Oh, I've cried all my eyelashes off now. Lip's gonna kill me.

• 59:30Fearne Cotton?

  Thanks darling. I really, really love that.

• 59:47Speaker 02

  And I also get the latest iPhone every year. Shh, anything else? Verizon let me choose Apple Watch Series 12 or iPad on them. Everybody listen up. Switch to Verizon and get the new iPhone 18 Pro now. No trade in needed and the latest iPhone every year with Simplicity Plan. Plus, choose Apple Watch Series 12 or iPad on us. Simplicity Plan with Simplicity Pro required. Plan and device payment purchase are separate agreements with separate terms. Service plan for Watch or iPad required. Additional terms apply for all offers.

• 1:00:11Speaker 08

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• 1:00:26Speaker 01

  Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of The Best One Yet. Behind every episode, there's research, emails, spreadsheets and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at goo.gle/workspacewithGemini. That's goo.gle/workspacewithGemini.

• 1:01:00Speaker 10

  Hello, I'm Joanna Fletcher.

• 1:01:02Speaker 11

  And I'm Marco Burchella.

• 1:01:04Speaker 10

  And this is Boots Off.

• 1:01:07Speaker 11

  We are friends who've spent a decade together, walking up mountains, across deserts and along coastlines with some seriously awesome groups of humans.

• 1:01:15Speaker 10

  And something happens when you're out there, feet on the ground, surrounded by nature. The conversations just spill out of you.

• 1:01:21Speaker 11

  This series is about the adversities that lead to adventure.

• 1:01:25Speaker 10

  The adventures that lead to adversity.

• 1:01:27Speaker 11

  And how life can be one big adventure in itself.

• 1:01:30Speaker 10

  Listen every Thursday, just search for Boots Off.