Davina McCall: “What if I don’t make it?” Embracing life after a brain tumour

Are you living the life you want to live? Broadcaster Davina McCall’s recent health scare has shown her the importance of living boldly, with no regrets. In this chat, live from The Happy Place Festival, best pals Fearne and Davina share how having tumours removed within a few months of each other brought them closer together. Davina explains how you can turn fear into joy through mindset changes, and how to apologise so you’re not carrying the weight of guilt anymore. She also reflects on how being in Narcotics Anonymous finally enabled her to like herself, warts and all. If you liked this episode of Happy Place, you might also like: Mel Robbins https://pod.fo/e/2e2935 Trinny Woodall https://pod.fo/e/2ff42d Dannii Minogue https://pod.fo/e/2cd7fe Child on the line is a three-part documentary podcast series celebrating the Volunteer Counsellors of Childline, and the brave children & young people who contact the helpline service. Listen here: https://www.childonthelinepodcast.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Hi, I'm Natalie Dormer and I'm proud to be an ambassador for Childline. This year, Childline turns 40. To mark it, I've made Child on the Line, a three-part documentary podcast. We hear why children needed a helpline in 1986, how it was built against the odds and the challenges children face today, from abuse and mental health to social media and AI. Search Child on the Line and listen wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:28Fearne Cotton?

  Hello, I'm Fran Cotton and this is Happy Place, the show that works towards self-acceptance. Now, we're heading back to the Happy Place Festival in Gunnersbury Park today with Davina McCall.

• 0:42Speaker 02

  I hated myself when I got clean. I mean, I really hated myself. I had let myself down. I had done things I said I would never do. And my sponsor said to me, the next time I saw her, she gave me a mirror. Picked it up two nights later or something. And I looked at it and I said, "I like you." And then I couldn't stop crying because it wasn't true. And I was like, "How did I get here?" But I started realising that you can like yourself, warts and all.

• 1:15Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, I've got goosebumps even thinking back to this. This was such a special one for me to do at the festival, I cannot tell you. Davina is one of the most special people that's come into my life. Oh, I could have a cry thinking about it. She, we've known each other for a long time and we've sort of increasingly become closer and closer, but she's always been there for me in just the most beautiful way. And, you know, if you watch Davina on TV, if you have, like me, watched her since the days of Street Mate a thousand years ago, you'd hope that she's as enthusiastic and...

• 1:55Fearne Cotton?

  Just embracing of everyone and open-hearted. You'd hope she was all of those things in real life. Let me tell you, she's that and more. And, and you watch her walk around like backstage at the festival. She had so much time for everybody, talking to every team member, every festival reveler that wanted a quick hug and to say hi, every other person that was on the talk stage. She was just so up for giving them time. And when she talks to you, she really talks to you, like she looks in your eyes, she's there with you, completely present. She's just a very, very special person. And obviously we've become like even closer in the last six months, I'd say, because

• 2:40Fearne Cotton?

  we've both been through health scares and, um, oh, the gratitude I have for that woman during that time, I can't even tell you. So I think you're going to get to hear a different side of Davina today, a really personal side. So the things we chat about, we talk about our health scares, we both had a tumor removed within like a month of each other, so fucking weird, honestly. It was just the strangest thing. She had told me about hers and then four weeks later I found out about mine. It was mad. We also talk about her step mum and how close she is to her step mum and also her birth mum and the treacherous relationship that she had at times with her. But actually she talks about her mum with such love and humour. It's a really beautiful part of the chat.

• 3:25Fearne Cotton?

  We talk about NA and we talk about getting bolder with age and having older role models. I mean, that's just like bits of it. There's so much to this chat, I urge you to listen. Oh, and also we were actually lucky this year, no major festival disasters across the weekend, but we did have our first, one and only, during this chat.

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• 5:10Fearne Cotton?

  This chat with Davina was recorded live at the Happy Place Festival in Gunnersbury Park. Now, do you want to join us at Tatten Park in just a couple of weeks' time? We're going to be doing it all over again at the end of August. You could be listening in on a live podcast just like this one. And you can get involved with loads of other gorgeous workshops, everything from yoga to breathwork to crafting. Both our Saturday and weekend tickets are now sold out, but there are limited tickets remaining for Sunday, the 31st of August. So get your tickets now at happyplacefestival.com. All right, let's do it. And you join us having the biggest hug when we met on stage.

• 6:18Fearne Cotton?

  A Davina hug is a different flavour.

• 6:20Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, but I've got goosebumps. That literally gave me... That was such a good one.

• 6:22Fearne Cotton?

  I was like, oh, I was really...

• 6:24Speaker 02

  You know when you can tell I was transferring information?

• 6:28Fearne Cotton?

  I got it. I got it. I felt it.

• 6:30Speaker 02

  I got yours.

• 6:31Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, mine was just going, "I love you."

• 6:34Speaker 02

  Yep, so was mine.

• 6:35Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. Oh, Davina hug is just something special.

• 6:38Speaker 02

  Hi, everyone.

• 6:39Fearne Cotton?

  Davina, we're so happy to have you at the Happy Place Festival. I can't even tell you. It's a joy. Davina actually was a guest at our first ever mini, mini, mini pop-up Happy Place Festival in 2018. It was in an old, sort of abandoned photography studio. We were giving it a go and Davina so kindly came along. But now we're actually doing it and you helped us do this, so thank you. I'm so grateful you're here. And also, your amazing partner, Michael, did a hair demo earlier, which went down an absolute treat.

• 7:10Speaker 02

  It was amazing. I'm just saying to you earlier what a joy it is to be at something that he's doing and cheerlead him on from the front row.

• 7:20Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, there he is. Yay! Hey, Michael!

• 7:25Speaker 02

  Gorgeous, yay! You know what's funny? I don't know if I'd be able to do this if I didn't know you were here. Like, that's quite sad, isn't it? It's like, no, it's so lovely.

• 7:38Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, you are. He's always there with a hairbrush in hand, ready for a blow-dry. Look, I'm so grateful you're here. And also, shush you, shut up.

• 7:48Speaker 02

  I just got that. I was so slow.

• 7:52Fearne Cotton?

  You filthy minds.

• 7:56Fearne Cotton?

  Well, look, we've already done this backstage, but I want to say a massive thank you for just being a bloody great mate.

• 8:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:02Fearne Cotton?

  Because you are the best.

• 8:03Speaker 02

  I've got to say, we fell in love, I think, really, on a sport relief challenge.

• 8:08Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, God.

• 8:09Speaker 02

  Where we cycled from...

• 8:11Fearne Cotton?

  John O'Groats.

• 8:12Speaker 02

  John O'Groats to Lands End.

• 8:14Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, it was awful.

• 8:15Speaker 02

  I loved it, I loved it. Fern didn't love it so much.

• 8:18Fearne Cotton?

  I absolutely hated it.

• 8:19Speaker 02

  But we slept on bunks together opposite each other on a bus. And I fell in love with you over four days of like us going through one of the hardest things we've ever, ever done.

• 8:30Fearne Cotton?

  Who knew? I was like, oh, this is cute, like a bike ride, bro. It was so hard.

• 8:35Speaker 02

  And then since then, I think I've, I've been learning more and more about you, but really in the last year, we've supersized.

• 8:42Fearne Cotton?

  We really have. Oh, my God. And there's been so many reasons why.

• 8:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:46Fearne Cotton?

  We had a really weird end of last year, both you and I. And I remember I'd come on to be a guest on Begin Again, your fucking great podcast, and you had said to me, "I've got this hell thing going on." And obviously it's shocking and you think, "I want to be there for my friend." And we'd talked about it on the phone afterwards. And then I think I called you four weeks later and went, "Oh, I've got a tumor too." It was so weird.

• 9:11Speaker 02

  So weird, but I guess in a weird sort of way, sometimes I feel like there are other powers at play. And I was thinking, "Got it, I can empathize with you." Empathy is such a powerful emotion, I think. And it's one thing to say, "Oh, I'm really sorry," but you know when, you know somebody's been through something or is going through something. And all the fear that comes around that word, "tumor" and things. And that we could, I mean, I've got goosebumps literally talking about it, that we understood each other and we were in a place where we could really, it felt like an awful but life-saving thing.

• 9:49Fearne Cotton?

  The timing was wild. And I spoke to you a hell of a lot. I spoke to you and I was in hospital on the phone and you were just so amazing with, not even advice, just sort of being there and listening and just knowing you were there was amazing.

• 10:03Speaker 02

  I feel the same way about you.

• 10:05Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, it was just great, yeah, to have you during that time. How did you, I don't know if you did mitigate it, but how did you mitigate the fear around that word and knowing with an operation like that, there is risk? How did you cope through the sort of the lead up to it?

• 10:21Speaker 02

  I think quite a big thing that I did, because I actually found out that I had a, they said it was a benign brain tumour. So really for four months, I was like, well benign, that's fine, right? Like, absolutely fine. I don't need to do anything about it. I'll just leave it there. I've had it since I was born, you know, I was, in fact, it started growing in my brain when I was in my mum's tummy. So I was like, oh, I'm fine. So I didn't really think about it for four months. Then when I went to see the doctor, this was in August 2023, I went to see a neurosurgeon in January. And then I went to see another neurosurgeon to have a talk with them to go, hang on a minute, I just need to get a second opinion.

• 11:03Speaker 02

  Because they were kind of saying, oh, it's quite big, we think you should get it removed. And I was like, what, I have brain surgery and I don't have any symptoms? Why would I do that? That seems completely mad. It's benign. And then I got a third opinion, and then I got a fourth opinion.

• 11:18Fearne Cotton?

  Just to be sure.

• 11:20Speaker 02

  Brain surgery, I mean, absolutely, absolutely sure. But the third opinion was the guy, I was like, you're taking it out. I loved him, he was absolutely brilliant. Michael and I sat, we had a FaceTime with him, I was like, you're the man. But the fourth opinion, I phoned somebody in America and I said, you are absolutely not going to operate on me ever, but please, would you just give me an honest opinion? Because I think if someone thinks they're going to operate on you, they can't say you have to have this operation.

• 11:46Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 11:47Speaker 02

  In case it goes wrong. So I ended up going, you're not going to operate on me, tell me what to do. And I was at the Mass Singer, it was October last year, I was having the operation in November, and I'm in the courtyard outside the cabins, walking around on the phone to this woman in America, I'm going, so what do you think? What do you think? And she was going, okay, it's a big tumour. And I was like, okay, it's a big tumour, right, how big? And she goes, it can't grow anymore. Or you will get hydrocephalus, which is water on the brain. And you'll go into a coma. Like if you were on a plane, you'd have to do emergency landing. I was like, oh god, okay, that's bad. Um, then she goes, I love your surgeon, he's amazing. I was like, yes, win, one win.

• 12:27Speaker 02

  And then she said, um, you absolutely have to get it taken out, like it's got to go now. Um, and I'm amazed, have you, are you sure you haven't got any symptoms? Sorry, this is a really long answer, but very quickly. Twice in the two years before my operation, I looked at Michael and I went, he's always thinking. He's always moving and talking and thinking and processing things. And I said, do you always think? And he went, always, I'm always thinking. And I thought to myself, I'm sure I used to do that. But I'd been doing bits of meditation, thank you, Fan. Um, inspired me, Fans inspired me. Um, and, and I thought, oh, I'm just really present. Um, but turns out after I'd had the operation, I woke up.

• 13:12Speaker 02

  And I didn't know what country I was in. Uh, I didn't know, are you okay darling? Are you sure? Oh.

• 13:18Fearne Cotton?

  Has the bench broken? Oh, that's, that's fun.

• 13:22Speaker 02

  Are you all right?

• 13:23Fearne Cotton?

  Um, I'll get you a little beanbag. Oh no, look, it's fixable, it's fixable. We've got this. Maybe go on the floor. Maybe go on the floor.

• 13:33Speaker 02

  Sit on the floor.

• 13:33Fearne Cotton?

  That's our only disaster this festival so far, so, okay, not bad going.

• 13:37Speaker 02

  Well, I was gonna like going into, I went into full rescue mode then.

• 13:40Fearne Cotton?

  Into mum mode.

• 13:41Speaker 02

  Um, hang on, I've got some plasters in my bag. Um, so afterwards, I didn't know what country I was in. I didn't know I'd had an operation. I kept saying to Michael, listen, I need to get back from America. I was in London. I need to get back from America because I've got to have an operation tomorrow. And he was like, you've had the operation two minutes later. I've got to have an operation tomorrow, we need to get back. It was like mad. But what I was aware of was a noise in my head. And I was like, oh my god, this noise, oh my god. Do you know what it was? Thoughts.

• 14:14Fearne Cotton?

  Wow.

• 14:16Speaker 02

  And I realised that I hadn't had that, like I hadn't just been thinking. So now, every morning I wake up and I'm like, I wonder why the grass is green. What about that trees over there? Why does the moon and the sun come up at the same time? How does that happen?

• 14:30Fearne Cotton?

  It's all quite deep, quite deep shit.

• 14:32Speaker 02

  Because I don't, I don't think of really weird, random things.

• 14:35Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, but that's sort of the tumour was preventing you from having just random thoughts.

• 14:39Speaker 02

  Yes, that's extraordinary. I didn't know that. No.

• 14:43Fearne Cotton?

  Now too many maybe.

• 14:44Speaker 02

  Too many.

• 14:45Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 14:45Speaker 02

  Thank God for him. Michael, why do you think the sun and the moon comes up?

• 14:49Fearne Cotton?

  He's loving it.

• 14:50Speaker 02

  He answered it for me, he knows. He actually knew.

• 14:53Fearne Cotton?

  He knows everything, he's the oracle.

• 14:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, I paged the oracle.

• 14:56Fearne Cotton?

  I also.

• 14:57Speaker 02

  The hot oracle.

• 14:58Fearne Cotton?

  The hot oracle.

• 14:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:00Fearne Cotton?

  As you were walking, doing that mime of you on the phone, I was imagining like a giant piranha walking past and someone else with a big head of a bowl of spaghetti on.

• 15:09Speaker 02

  Well, and the weirdest thing was, because it was a month away from the operation, that phone call, although it was a hard one to hear, I was relieved. Has anybody seen Fleabag?

• 15:21Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 15:21Speaker 02

  The bit of Fleabag where she goes, just tell me what to do.

• 15:25Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 15:26Speaker 02

  I was there. I really needed someone to tell me, should I have this operation or am I mad? Tell me what to do.

• 15:32Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 15:33Speaker 02

  And she did, and the relief I felt, and do you know what happened? Sorry, I'll shut up in a minute. I, I went back into the porter cabin and somebody from ITV came out that I don't know very well, but he's like a sort of boss guy. And he looked at me.

• 15:47Fearne Cotton?

  Sounds super important to you.

• 15:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, he was, no, but he was really important. I know his name now because he literally changed my life. Joe.

• 15:52Fearne Cotton?

  Okay.

• 15:53Speaker 02

  Joe Mace. He comes out and.

• 15:55Fearne Cotton?

  I know Joe Mace.

• 15:56Speaker 02

  Yeah. He said, are you okay? I think he could see I'd been crying. And I said, yeah, yeah, I'm just relieved. I've just had some good news. Nobody knew at that point that I had a brain tumour. I said, I'm just relieved because, you know, it's like. I said, I've got a brain tumour. He was like, okay. And he gave me a big hug, like an amazing hug. Amazing. And then he said, let's, let's go talk about it somewhere private. Turns out that one of his family had had a brain tumour. She'd had it operated on. She was fine. And we sat down, we had a huge talk about all the feelings around it. But can you imagine of all the people that I bump into. Yeah. After having that moment was him. Yeah.

• 16:38Speaker 02

  And he knew exactly what to say to me. And these are the little things that happened to me to help me prepare. I was gifted things along the way. And I thought, I need to get my body. So I exercised a lot before the operation. I mean, I exercised, you know me. Yeah. Um. Always in a legging. I exercised a lot, all the time. Yeah. Always got a dumbbell on the go. And, um, and then I thought, I need to get my brain in the right place. And that was to a place where I could be calm. Yeah. And what did I need to do to do that? Were my kids gonna, sorry. Hmm. Were my kids gonna be okay? Yeah. If I didn't make it? Like, that's all I really cared about.

• 17:23Speaker 02

  I knew Michael, Michael's like a whole person. Michael's Michael. But I was really worried about my kids. So I went forensic on, on thinking about my children and where they were at in their life. What stage they were at. You know, you're only as happy as your unhappiest child, right? And, um, I, I came to a realisation after about six months of like cross-examining them about their life and telling them the whole time how much I've loved my life. My eldest daughter kept caught on. She was like, you are not dying. Yeah. I was like, no, no, no. And, um, and I realised that they would be great. Hmm. They'd miss me, you know, and I want to be with them, but they would be okay. And I felt like I could go to sleep

• 18:08Speaker 02

  on the operating table and know that they were all here to help me, but I can let go of the outcome. And it was the best gift. I, I am not afraid of dying. You, you still feel that way? I am not afraid of dying anymore. And it was the biggest journey of my life. From August twenty three to November twenty four was an amazing time where something changed and begin again. The podcast I started. To help other people on their journey of living a life that they love enough to feel on their deathbed, whenever that may be, that I have no regrets.

• 18:53Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 18:54Speaker 02

  I have lived the life I wanted and I don't, I'm not lying there going, I wish I'd done that thing.

• 19:00Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 19:00Speaker 02

  I wish I'd done that job.

• 19:01Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 19:02Speaker 02

  I wish I'd not stayed in this relationship. I wish I'd, you know, all of those, I haven't lived the life I want and begin again is about just begin again.

• 19:11Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 19:11Speaker 02

  And live the life you want, you know.

• 19:13Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, it's a, it's a really amazing place to get to.

• 19:16Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 19:17Fearne Cotton?

  A, not being scared of dying, but I think having no regrets and feeling like you are living fully in the life you want to be in. And I think it's quite rare and I think with a health scare, there'll be plenty of people here, I've spoke to many of you this weekend who have been in that position, they've had a big health scare and it does wake you up to that, that we've not got all the time in the world, that we haven't got time to waste.

• 19:39Speaker 02

  I, um, I took the, after I got better and I came up to London and I started taking the tube again and I remember sitting on the tube and looking at everybody and I nearly turned into the weirdo that goes around, down the tube going, smile, honestly, this is life, you're alive. This is amazing, we're on a tube and it gets us through London much quicker than a car. This is great, you're alive, this is gonna be amazing, do something brilliant today, you're gonna see a friend, you're seeing a friend, yeah. Like, I, I, I literally wanted to do that, I thought, no, don't do that.

• 20:13Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, I wish you had.

• 20:15Speaker 02

  You will scare people.

• 20:17Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, but it would have gone viral on Instagram and it would have been so cool. I love that, but I get it, I get it.

• 20:25Speaker 02

  Well, you were, you know, you had a scare and it's like, it's a wake up call.

• 20:29Fearne Cotton?

  It's a massive wake up call. We're so lucky.

• 20:32Speaker 02

  You know, we had a wake-up call and we're here.

• 20:34Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, it's amazing.

• 20:35Speaker 02

  It's a gift.

• 20:36Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, one of the most important things when you're going through anything, whether it's a health scare or any challenging adversity, something you're facing, are the people around you. I think you certainly realise that is the most important thing, actually, in life, are the people around you. And obviously, you've got Michael, you've got your children, your step-mum was also... Oh, I've got you and you've got me. And your step-mum was so amazing as well in your recovery period. Well, your mum, you call her mum.

• 21:02Speaker 02

  I call her mum, but officially, she's my step-mum. But I don't know if anybody here has had a step-mum when they were growing up. But I spent my childhood... My mum, my birth mother, was like... Oh, you're amazing. I mean, you guys, you would have loved her, you, Michael, would have really loved her. She was gorgeous, French, exotic, mad, risk-taker, exciting to be around, chaotic, someone that's exciting. But like, I just wanted Angela Lansbury. Like, I wanted someone really with sensible shoes.

• 21:45Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 21:46Speaker 02

  Now, this woman, this woman was a flasher. She used to wear coats and flash people in the streets. She was, she used to arrest people, she used to do citizens' arrests. You know, it was madness. And she, I was, I was in the back of a car once while she drove it across a cricket pitch while the match was on. So she was, but you know, like, but fun.

• 22:10Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 22:11Speaker 02

  But I, I spent my life trying to get her to mother me, like, thinking, I'll go back and she'll change and something will happen and she will see me in a different light and she will want to mother me. And it never happened. But my step-mum became my step-mum when I was six. And she was, oh, God, fun. She was just there all the time, solid, dependable, loving.

• 22:35Speaker 02

  Non judgmental. And she is a very different person. She's very straight laced. Um, she loved my dad. My dad was quite a difficult person, but I would never have said that about him while he was alive. My granny was quite a difficult person and my mum married into this family and her life was quite difficult, but I never saw that or understood that. And in the last year and a half, we have talked a lot. Have you? And it started with her apologising for asking me to leave home when I was nineteen. She said, you know, I think we are moving into a flat. My dad had um had a change of circumstances.

• 23:16Speaker 02

  They were moving into the flat. They were gonna get um three beds and they needed to rent one of the bedrooms out um to make some money from businessmen that were coming over to learn English. And I I got that and I got looted and I found a room to rent off in a flat in Latimer Road. And um I was, I had the, I'm so pleased she did that. And throughout my life, I've said the best thing my mum did for me was asked me to leave home at nineteen because I had to stand on my own two feet. I had to become financially independent and I did. But did you feel resentful at the time? Not, not at all, but she had obviously carried it. And I think this operation was coming and she felt she needed to clear the air with a few things. Wow.

• 23:59Speaker 02

  And for her to say that to me and realise and realise that I'd never held that against her. I don't know if this has ever happened to you guys, but whether you've apologised to somebody for something you did fifteen years ago, twenty years ago, and it's bothered you all that time. Yep. And then they go. Best feeling. Yeah, but they go, I haven't thought about it. Yeah. I haven't thought about it. And you think, what, I've been fucking car- sorry, Chris. I've been carrying this on my own, like, why? And I had John Tickle from Big Brother. Do you remember John Tickle from Big Brother? He came up to me 10 years ago and he said, "I've got to apologise."

• 24:39Speaker 02

  And I was like, "What for?" And he went, "I did a panel show and I said something really not, not nice about you at all on it." And I was like, "I didn't know."

• 24:47Fearne Cotton?

  Oh.

• 24:48Speaker 02

  And he went, "I am, I am so sorry." And I said, "But I didn't know. You've carried that."

• 24:53Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 24:54Speaker 02

  All your life. Like if you, if there is something that you need to get off your chest and apologise for.

• 24:59Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, do it.

• 25:00Speaker 02

  Do it because the chances are, they, they don't, they're not even aware of it and you're carrying it around for someone else.

• 25:07Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 25:07Speaker 02

  Like, let it go.

• 25:09Fearne Cotton?

  We're so bad at apologising, aren't we as well? Because it is, it's so awkward, like it is the most awkward thing and it's terrifying because you fear you're going to get rejected in that moment.

• 25:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:18Fearne Cotton?

  But actually, I had this recently where me and a friend had had a bit of a situation and I reached out first, I apologised. It was kind of a two-way situation and after we had that chat, we are so much closer. We were already close, but we're so, so close. The weight off my shoulders was immense. It's sort of, and it's a low level stress that you try and ignore, but it's there. But that's so big of your mum to do that. It's amazing.

• 25:45Speaker 02

  She and I then, it broke something in our circle of, in our relationship and it, and it mended something.

• 25:52Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 25:53Speaker 02

  Eager. And she and I, so before my operation, my mum laughs at me because I love wearing sexy clothes or sexy 90s or sexy dressing gown. She's always like, "Oh my god, look at that." And I used to take it as an insult. So I was reading her wrong intention. I was reading her intention wrong. I thought she was kind of going, "Oh, you're too sexy or you're just like your mum" or something like that. It wasn't that. She's joking with me and she can joke with me because she loves me.

• 26:22Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 26:23Speaker 02

  And I know she loves me and I really know she loves me now. So she said to me, "What night is it you've got for hospital?"

• 26:32Fearne Cotton?

  She was panicking.

• 26:33Speaker 02

  And she started and I was like, do you want to see? And she was like, I don't know, do I?

• 26:39Speaker 02

  I was like, I'm putting it on, I'm coming down. So I'd actually gone like white company pyjama, very straight.

• 26:45Fearne Cotton?

  Very civilized, very straight.

• 26:47Speaker 02

  But I was like, but they are shorties.

• 26:51Speaker 02

  She was like, I don't want you flashing your brain surgeon, you know, like.

• 26:55Fearne Cotton?

  I love it.

• 26:55Speaker 02

  And it was really, um, we laughed so much about it. And then we kept revisiting it and something profound has changed. I tell you something else, Michael really helped me see my mum for who she is. And you helped me see her intention. It was like I was blinded to it.

• 27:17Fearne Cotton?

  It's so hard when you're close to someone, isn't it like that? You can't, you can only see the bits that trigger you and make you feel pissed off and it's a whole other person.

• 27:25Speaker 02

  Perceiving someone differently.

• 27:26Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 27:27Speaker 02

  Intention is everything.

• 27:29Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, it's massive.

• 27:30Speaker 02

  It doesn't, somebody can say something nasty to you with a bad intention and it feels nasty. But then now, knowing that her intention is good, her saying something funny to me that's a bit taking the piss now feels like a loving thing.

• 27:46Fearne Cotton?

  There's an intimacy to it.

• 27:47Speaker 02

  And there's an intimacy to it. It's so mad.

• 27:50Fearne Cotton?

  So wonderful.

• 27:51Speaker 02

  How your perception of something is everything.

• 27:54Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I think it's so important looking at stepparenting as well because it always gets a bad rap. It's not talked about positively. And you're so open about that relationship. But I think it's just, it's massively encouraging for people.

• 28:06Speaker 02

  I'm a step mum, you know, he's a step dad.

• 28:07Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 28:08Speaker 02

  And we both were, um, we were both quite lucky in a way that our kids were quite old when we, when we got together. But, um, we, you know, his kids have got a mum and a dad that love them. They don't need another mum. I don't need to step in in that way. I'm just a friend and he's a friend to my kids and that's worked so well.

• 28:25Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 28:25Speaker 02

  And rather than me leaping in and trying to be really great, like really fun and ooh, let's go do this. I let, I let them come to me. He let mine come to him and it's been a really nice, organic journey.

• 28:37Fearne Cotton?

  It's so amazing.

• 28:38Speaker 02

  It's a very fulfilling, enriching job.

• 28:42Fearne Cotton?

  Utterly. I've been a stepparent for years and years and I love my stepkids and it is, it's a really special relationship.

• 28:52Speaker 04

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• 30:27Speaker 09

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• 31:00Fearne Cotton?

  How do you think, now you've got a bit of distance from your mum passing and having this new iteration of a relationship with your step-mum. When you look back at your childhood and your mum's absence or the driving across the cricket pitch, all of those things, what do you feel now? How do you view it? How do you think it's impacted you as an adult?

• 31:23Speaker 02

  I mean, I wouldn't, again, part of my, "Am I okay to let go of my life?" Has been to kind of examine all of that. And I wouldn't change anything because, without sounding arrogant...

• 31:41Fearne Cotton?

  Which you never could.

• 31:43Speaker 02

  Because it isn't. I love myself.

• 31:45Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 31:46Speaker 02

  I have been on a massive life journey and I have been through terrible struggles. We've been talking a lot about a calamity V-Tie instead of a curriculum V-Tie. Because I think like when you go for a job, sod what you learnt at school.

• 32:05Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 32:06Speaker 02

  It's like, what have you learnt at the University of Life? How many calamities have you been through?

• 32:12Fearne Cotton?

  Calamity's such a good word.

• 32:13Speaker 02

  The more you've had, I'm employing you.

• 32:17Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 32:18Speaker 02

  Because that's where the learning comes from. So whenever, now in life, I've learnt that if something really hard happens, it's a good thing. So I was like to Michael, if I make it through this brain surgery, it's going to be the best thing that's ever happened to me. The learning that I have made in this year and a half, two years since I've had it done, or since I found out about it, has been so immense and enriching in my life. It's given me, my step-mum, like, I wouldn't change that for the world. But when it happened, obviously, it was like, "Oh, calamity incoming." But to not be afraid. Of disasters, they will make you a better person.

• 33:03Fearne Cotton?

  That is so hugely empowering. I do know that, but I think you also have to make a choice whether to, and I don't say this lightly because we've all been in a crappy place and felt like the world's closing in. But I do think at some point you make a choice whether to be a victim of that situation or to learn from it and move on. And it's not easy, you know, I definitely think I was stuck in the mindset of being a victim to certain things and a bad patch of mental health that I thought I couldn't get out of until I was ready to make the choice. But I think you've, you know, shown that beautifully with the example of your brain tumour, that you made a choice to see the positive outcome and to grow and learn from it rather than, because you can come out of something like that and be shit scared forever

• 33:48Fearne Cotton?

  that something awful is going to happen again. I think that's an easy route to take. I've definitely been there as well. When's the rug going to be pulled from under my feet again? It's a hard choice to make and probably one with a bit of discipline involved, that you keep choosing to make that choice.

• 34:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I think, I mean, I think like things like trauma, if you've been through a trauma, I mean, something like a traumatic birth and then you get pregnant again, obviously you're gonna, you're gonna be feeling fear around that again, that is normal. But I think when I'm talking about calamities, it can be anything, but it is where do you get your thinking to and how can you think your way out of it?

• 34:28Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 34:28Speaker 02

  We are, I love that thing, I saw Mel Robbins the other day talking online, I'm slightly obsessed with her.

• 34:34Fearne Cotton?

  We love her.

• 34:34Speaker 02

  Um, she did, she did, she, they put her in my diary on Begin Again, you talked to her, didn't you as well?

• 34:41Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 34:42Speaker 02

  They put her.

• 34:43Fearne Cotton?

  We saw you discovering this.

• 34:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, she, yes.

• 34:45Fearne Cotton?

  You couldn't believe it?

• 34:46Speaker 02

  No, I thought they'd made a mistake. I mean, you've had your podcast for a while, but I was like, what my?

• 34:53Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, but you're Tervina McCall, don't you know that?

• 34:55Speaker 02

  No, but, like, she doesn't know that.

• 34:58Fearne Cotton?

  She does now.

• 34:59Speaker 02

  She does now.

• 35:00Fearne Cotton?

  Does now.

• 35:00Speaker 02

  Um, anyway, she said, no, you know, I love that idea and I, I've heard it before, but no one's coming.

• 35:06Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 35:07Speaker 02

  No one's coming. You've just got yourself, you can't keep waiting for somebody else to come and rescue you. You've got to rescue yourself. But when you do, oh, feels so good.

• 35:18Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 35:18Speaker 02

  And you feel so proud and you think, oh, I did that myself.

• 35:22Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 35:22Speaker 02

  I made myself better. Well done me.

• 35:25Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. It's, you're never gonna get that feeling from outside validation.

• 35:29Speaker 02

  No, no.

• 35:30Fearne Cotton?

  Or someone.

• 35:30Speaker 02

  No, it doesn't.

• 35:31Fearne Cotton?

  Telling you what to do. It's, I certainly realised that in the world of TV, because there was a period where I was just like, oh God, I must just be deeply unpopular, like, why aren't things working out for me? But this childlike part of me kept going, someone's gonna discover me and they're gonna give me the show and then everything's gonna be all right. And then when I woke up and was like, that's not, not gonna happen, I can't rely on that solely. That's when I started making opportunities for myself and going off on a whole different tangent. But it massively applies to just life and hoping someone's gonna save us, fix us, make everything okay. And yeah, we need good people around us, it's important, but we've got to do the work.

• 36:11Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 36:12Fearne Cotton?

  It's bloody hard.

• 36:13Speaker 02

  It's bloody hard. And that's another thing that I'm, I've had to learn to not be, um, resistant towards hard work on myself, to actually think, ooh, great, a juicy bit of hard work on myself.

• 36:28Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 36:29Speaker 02

  Because almost the harder the work, the more work you have to do, the bigger the reward.

• 36:35Fearne Cotton?

  Yep.

• 36:35Speaker 02

  Because you are in a darker, you know, if you have to work harder, you're in a darker place. But when you see the light, the reward is so massive. And a couple of people have said today, oh, you look, you look so well, you look, but it's because I am, I'm in a happy place.

• 36:54Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 36:57Fearne Cotton?

  Nailed it, absolutely nailed it.

• 37:01Fearne Cotton?

  I'll clip that up Basil and we'll put that on the trailer.

• 37:04Speaker 02

  Great. And it's, I think, again, that's about beginning again. If you're not in a happy place, you can begin again whenever you want or need.

• 37:12Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, you put both in that, did you see? Shit, that was good. Oh crikey, I can't cope. You're so true.

• 37:20Speaker 02

  I didn't even know I'd done that, I was subconscious.

• 37:22Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, what?

• 37:25Fearne Cotton?

  It's so brilliant and I think the key to that is what you said a moment ago, which is you not only like yourself, you love yourself. And when you start liking yourself slash loving yourself, you want to do the hard work because you want to feel better.

• 37:39Speaker 02

  Well, you're worth it.

• 37:40Fearne Cotton?

  You're worth it, you know you deserve it.

• 37:42Speaker 02

  Do you know, another thing that I'd love to tell you is when I first got clean in Narcotics Anonymous, I'm not giving away any secrets. I think most people know this. In Narcotics Anonymous, you have a sponsor and that's somebody that's been around and clean for a bit longer than you, that can support you on your journey and that you can talk to if you're struggling at all. And I hated myself when I got clean. I mean, I really hated myself. I had let myself down. I had done things I said I would never do. I had let people down, I'd let myself down. I was ill.

• 38:23Speaker 02

  I just, you know, my granny took care of me and she was like, taught me morals and manners and I'd lost all of that. Somehow I'd been infected with this dark shadow. And my sponsor said to me, the next time I saw her, she gave me a mirror. And it was a little mirror like that. And she said, I want to put this, you to put this on your bedside table. And every morning I want you to wake up and I want you to look at it and I want you to say, I love you. And I saw her like a month later and she went, how's it going? I said, I haven't done it. And she said, why not? I said, I just can't, it's too much. She said, okay, love's too strong, let's start with like. So I was like, okay, I think I can do that.

• 39:02Speaker 02

  Anyway, I picked it up two nights later or something and I looked in the morning and I looked at it and I said, I like you. And then... I couldn't stop crying because it wasn't true. I didn't. And I was like, how did I get here? How did that happen?

• 39:21Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 39:21Speaker 02

  And I thought, I'm gonna try it again tomorrow. And it took me six months before I could even say I love you. But I started realising that you can like yourself, warts and all. You, I, I didn't have to be perfect. I was allowed to have an argument. I was allowed to judge someone. I was allowed to be impatient. I was allowed to not be perfect and still like myself. And that the little wins in life, you know, me going to a meeting, me trying to help a newcomer, me not taking heroin and not drinking. Like yourself for that, like, well done.

• 40:01Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 40:01Speaker 02

  And eventually that turned into love. And I'm still, I'm, I, I don't ever want to be perfect. I'm never gonna be perfect. I have lots of defects of character that I'm aware of and I work on and I try and be better. But the, it's when you accept yourself, warts and all, and you are still able to love yourself.

• 40:23Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 40:23Speaker 02

  This is like a really wonderful, lovely place to get to.

• 40:28Fearne Cotton?

  I think it's the foundation of all good mental health. You know, I, as much as I love doing yoga and meditation and all the things that we've got on offer here, I don't think it touched the sides if you don't like yourself.

• 40:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:41Fearne Cotton?

  It will make you feel good for a minute and then you're back in the cycle of self-loathing, beating yourself up about things. It's a really hard thing to land on. And I wonder, have you felt, because I certainly have over the years, not so much now, but over the years. Due to the nature of our job, there is a hell of a lot of noise and outside opinion.

• 41:02Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 41:03Fearne Cotton?

  And in, at points in my career, I conflated other people's opinion of me with what I knew about myself.

• 41:10Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 41:11Fearne Cotton?

  So I started to believe anything anyone said, whether it was really not very good, actually, just all the bad stuff. I was like, yeah, I must be whatever John from Bogner said, or, you know, whoever's texted into the radio show.

• 41:22Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 41:22Fearne Cotton?

  I just, John from Bogner, you asshole. He's not a real person. He's not a real person. But do you know what I mean? I would just take on all of it. Like, anything anyone said, I would just believe it. And I think it's when you get to a place of, as you say, I like myself, whatever the weather, I'm gonna have my own back. That's when you can start to go, I don't care what John thinks. It's not my issue. That's John's life. God, John's so getting it in the neck. But John, John's got his own issues going on and he's just taking it out on me. It doesn't matter. What's your relationship been like with being in the public eye and having that feedback?

• 41:56Speaker 02

  When we talked on Begin Again and I heard your story, I think the really big thing that hit me was how young you were when you became famous.

• 42:05Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 42:06Speaker 02

  And that is an enormous pressure. And in a way, I'm quite pleased that, you know, I was a waitress for two years, which I loved. Massive learning. I worked in a shop and then I got a job as a model agent on the men's desk.

• 42:30Fearne Cotton?

  She knows what's up.

• 42:31Speaker 02

  Tough, tough job, tough job.

• 42:32Fearne Cotton?

  What a tough.

• 42:33Speaker 02

  Someone had to do it.

• 42:36Speaker 02

  Actually, it was really, it was really good fun being in fashion and everything. But I didn't get into telly. I harassed people at MTV for three years to give me an audition. And I didn't get into telly until I was 25. Thank God, because I got clean at 24. And if I'd have got an audition for MTV then, I would have messed it up. So it was all meant to be. Everything fell into place. But I was pleased, unlike you, that I'd got to do all my mad stuff and be young and,

• 43:11Speaker 02

  you know, naughty and behave badly out of any kind of judgment or public kind of criticism. And I could start MTV clean and like a kind of new, like being reborn. So. I was, I was very lucky then, and I actually feel like the older I've got, the less anything like that bothers me. But so I would say in my twenties, if people used to say, the thing that people used to level at me is that I was just annoyingly enthusiastic.

• 43:49Fearne Cotton?

  That's like the, the best thing about you, by the way.

• 43:51Speaker 02

  But I, I, I am still like that, like.

• 43:54Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, it's why we all love you.

• 43:55Speaker 02

  Okay, okay.

• 43:56Fearne Cotton?

  Because you're like, you love life.

• 43:58Speaker 02

  It's a bit like Marmite. Like, some people really like that, and some people absolutely hate it, and that's okay.

• 44:06Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 44:06Speaker 02

  This is the loving yourself warts and all. I am annoyingly enthusiastic. And for some people, that's great. And for other people, it makes them want to, you know, it's like, please turn this off. Here's a nightmare. But I'm like, yeah, turn it off. Like, I don't mind.

• 44:23Fearne Cotton?

  I think those people might be miserable.

• 44:25Speaker 02

  Well, I, I, I also think they'll probably love someone morosey.

• 44:29Fearne Cotton?

  Miserable. Yeah, correct, yeah.

• 44:31Speaker 02

  Um, Leonard Cohen. Um, but I, I don't need it.

• 44:36Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 44:37Speaker 02

  That's what's so nice. And I wouldn't change for that.

• 44:41Fearne Cotton?

  No, God, no.

• 44:43Speaker 02

  But I, I would have done when I was younger.

• 44:45Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I think that's where you start to feel.

• 44:47Speaker 02

  That's what I like about getting older.

• 44:48Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, it's the best thing. All of my friends, I've got lots of really interesting, wonderful, intergenerational friendships that I love. One of my friends was in her eighties, she died a few years ago, but you just get such a different dynamic and advice. And that's the one thing that I've heard again and again, is when you get in your sixties, you'll give even less of a shit.

• 45:09Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 45:09Fearne Cotton?

  Wait till you get in your seventies, wait till you get in your eighties. And then like my mum yesterday, who's seventy-two, walking around, can I have that cardigan for free? Like, she doesn't care. She doesn't care. I didn't get the free cardigan. I, I wanted the cardigan. She didn't care. And that is liberating. Yeah, her ma- her mate Babs, that's Fern's mum. Can she have the cardigan for free? Oh my God, you're so embarrassing. Pay for the cardigan. Pay for the cardigan. I care, she doesn't care. But that's what I'm aiming for, not caring. Yeah, she's not here, so I don't care now, telling that story. But I think that is absolute liberation, getting older and not giving a shit.

• 45:50Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 45:51Fearne Cotton?

  Heaven.

• 45:52Speaker 02

  Yes, and I think, well, I'm sure there are people here that can relate.

• 45:55Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 45:56Speaker 02

  To that, it's a gift.

• 45:58Fearne Cotton?

  A gift.

• 45:58Speaker 02

  There's gotta be a gift with aging, because otherwise it could feel like a loss. But aging is a loss of one thing, but you gain so much more in another way. I saw a girl earlier, and I think she's here, there, in a beautiful outfit. And she was like, oh, I said, you look amazing. She's like, no, I think it's inappropriate. I'm 40, I shouldn't really be wet. And I was like, sweating my arse off. I like, literally, don't care.

• 46:31Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 46:31Speaker 02

  I am wearing a skirt at 57.

• 46:35Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 46:36Speaker 02

  I don't care. Like, and the more inappropriately someone dresses, the older they are, the more I love them.

• 46:44Fearne Cotton?

  Yes, same.

• 46:45Speaker 02

  I was just thinking, I need women 60, 70, 80, my elder stateswomen, I need you to be outlandish.

• 46:53Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 46:54Speaker 02

  And outrageous. I'm loving all this crochet, by the way, you look amazing. Um, you know, I need people out there shining the light for me, so that life, as I get older, looks like it's gonna be exciting.

• 47:07Fearne Cotton?

  Yes, it is.

• 47:08Speaker 02

  And that's what I wanna do for you, you know, I want you to look at me and go, oh my god, being in my 50s, late 50s, is gonna be great.

• 47:16Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 47:17Speaker 02

  Yes, yes.

• 47:19Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, you are thriving.

• 47:22Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 47:22Fearne Cotton?

  I've known you a long time, and it just seems like you are thriving more than you ever have. You've got your podcast, you've got your fitness app, you're in a bloody great relationship, you're constantly challenging yourself with new TV projects. That is exciting.

• 47:36Speaker 02

  But I feel like you're there as well. I feel like it's so funny, like, you and I are entering into very similar phases in our lives. And it feels like we're at a time where...

• 47:51Speaker 02

  Even if things go wrong, you don't perceive it like that anymore. Things that go wrong are teaching you somewhere, guiding you somewhere. And that is the gift of getting older. You just learn more and more.

• 48:02Fearne Cotton?

  It's so great. I'm going off on a totally random tangent. And it's a quick question. But because you brought up the start of your career at MTV a moment ago, my brain is now obsessing about.

• 48:14Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, go, go.

• 48:16Fearne Cotton?

  Can you just please bring back Street Mate? Still the greatest show that's ever been on TV.

• 48:21Speaker 02

  Do you know what?

• 48:22Fearne Cotton?

  There's never been a better TV show.

• 48:23Speaker 02

  You know what's mad? For Stand Up To Cancer, a few years ago, I did a Street Mate with a woman who had recovered from breast cancer. And I took her out. She wanted to meet somebody and she was finding it hard. She's kind of lost a bit of confidence. And I was like, right, we're going to go and get you a date for tomorrow night. And we went out, we went into an office and we found a guy. And we'd gone all over the place and it was so fun doing it again. And Channel 4 were like, let's bring it back. And I was like, yes, let's bring it back. And we were making all the moves and everything. And then, two days before they announced it was coming back, they told me that they'd changed their minds. They were going with Scarlett Moffat. And I was like, no!

• 49:06Fearne Cotton?

  But you are Street Mate?

• 49:09Speaker 02

  So Scarlett did it. And then I feel like it was brought back and tried out and it didn't go. So I was like, well, we have to let go of that.

• 49:21Fearne Cotton?

  Well, do you though?

• 49:22Speaker 02

  So if anybody wants me to matchmake them, come see me.

• 49:27Fearne Cotton?

  Do it live at the Happy Place Festival. Davina, I want to ask you this last question. I'm not quite sure what the answer is to this. But where is your happy place?

• 49:37Speaker 02

  I think with people I love. So Michael, our kids, our families.

• 49:48Speaker 02

  Um, probably in a karaoke bar or Ibiza.

• 49:54Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, it's a very happy place.

• 49:56Speaker 02

  But with people I love in a place, music, dancing, I feel free. We were listening to Florence and the Machine the other day and that song Free. And picks me up, puts me down, picks me up, puts me down. Um, everybody dancing, everybody, that's, that for me with people you love. Oh, it's like, that's my drug of choice.

• 50:21Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 50:21Speaker 02

  It makes you feel so, oh.

• 50:24Fearne Cotton?

  It's the best. We're having a big.

• 50:26Speaker 02

  Where's yours?

• 50:27Fearne Cotton?

  Mine changes all the time. It's definitely by the sea.

• 50:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:30Fearne Cotton?

  But I think it is more about the people that I'm with and just being with people where I feel safe. That's a big thing for me.

• 50:37Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 50:38Fearne Cotton?

  Being safe and like I'm not, I don't know, being charged or there's any danger in that situation.

• 50:44Speaker 02

  I totally get that.

• 50:45Fearne Cotton?

  Feeling safe. But we're gonna have a huge dance in a moment because Goldie Rocks is gonna DJ.

• 50:50Speaker 02

  Yes, I'm so excited about that.

• 50:51Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, and we're just gonna dance and everyone's gonna dance, aren't you?

• 50:54Speaker 02

  Can I just say, Goldie Rocks is the greatest name ever.

• 50:57Fearne Cotton?

  I know, and she's also the most amazing DJ.

• 50:59Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 51:00Fearne Cotton?

  Incredible. So that's, that's how we're gonna end our amazing Sunday and our Happy Place Festival. I am so grateful for all of you turning up and for sitting and listening to this live podcast. And I'm eternally grateful, not only for your friendship, but.

• 51:15Speaker 02

  I'm so proud of you, Fern. Isn't she amazing?

• 51:18Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, my God.

• 51:18Speaker 02

  Van Cotten, please give it up for Davina McCall.

• 51:23Fearne Cotton?

  Well, I'll tell you what, we went on to that Goldie Rocks set and we danced and we danced. And at one point, Goldie Rocks, AKA Sam, got everybody doing the conga, which was such a great sort of 80s throwback moment. It was so lovely and her set was amazing. And also Goldie Rocks was there doing her, the others, yeah, she plays like amazing DJ sets, but she also has this sound healing scenario called I O Project. And she did sound baths at the festival too. Bloody hell, we love you, Sam. Um, and Davina, oh, I don't know what to say.

• 51:58Fearne Cotton?

  I don't know what to say. If you already loved Davina, I bet you've fallen even more deeply in love with her after hearing her speak today. Davina, thank you so much for being open and for being my mate. I bloody love you. I know that that chat moved so many people. I had so many people DM me afterwards or come up to me and say, "Something's really changed me after listening to that." Especially that bit where she talks about being on the tube and like how excited she was to be alive and wanting to tell everybody. That was, oh my god, that was powerful. Now, there'll be another chat from the festival popping up in your feed this week. We're really treating you this summer, so keep an eye out for that. And in the meantime, I want to say a massive thanks again to Davina, to the producers of this episode, Anushka Tate.

• 52:46Speaker 05

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• 52:58Speaker 08

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• 53:29Speaker 09

  It's time. It's the most wonderful time of the year. Halloween!

• 53:37Speaker 10

  And you guys know we don't do Halloween by halves. Full costume, full prosthetics, full commitment. I'm a rat. And I'm the chef. It's our Ratatouille special. Then we're grabbing our broomsticks for the witches.

• 53:50Speaker 10

  We've got a spooky hotline caller. An update from our woman who was in love with the ghost of Prince Albert. And your tarot card dilemmas. Listen to our Halloween specials, search for The Girl's Bathroom.

• 54:06Fearne Cotton?

  And Basil Oxtaby and to you I love ya.