Jesse Tyler Ferguson: “If things don’t scare you, what’s the point?” Facing fear head-on

Actor Jesse Tyler Ferguson spent 11 years on our screens as Mitchell Pritchett in the hit series, Modern Family. But when the opportunity presented itself to be alone on stage, in front of a sell-out audience, a different feeling started to creep in. In this chat with Fearne, Jesse opens up about the fear that drives him. He reflects on how he’s learned to work through it, and what he does to lean in and embrace the challenges ahead. He also talks about how playing Mitchell helped him prepare for fatherhood, and the impact his relationship with his onscreen daughter had on him becoming a dad. Plus, Jesse shares some of the White House secrets he learned when interviewing former First Lady, Jill Biden. You can catch Jesse as Truman Capote in Tru at the Menier Chocolate Factory in London until the 14th November 2026. If you liked this episode of Happy Place, you might also like: Joe Lycett https://podfollow.com/happyplace/episode/daf6fb282ebca157be80bf0500192940f2101398/view Joseph Fiennes https://podfollow.com/happyplace/episode/25c1bfe6bd2e3f6cfb8047246a69d5da073cdd80/view Caitlin Moran https://podfollow.com/happyplace/episode/63f6fde10b7b05179752a6b1075d10050b424cba/view Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Fearne Cotton?

  Hello, I'm Fern Cotton and this is Happy Place, the show that explores the little joys in life. Today, I'm chatting to Jesse Tyler Ferguson.

• 0:11Speaker 01

  I think if things don't scare you, like, what's the point? If you're feeling like, I got this, it's not gonna challenge you in a way, it's not gonna make you grow. So I always feel like fear is a great sign that it's meant to be done.

• 0:22Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I've been really looking forward to this chat with Jesse because as I told him during our little sit down, I first watched Modern Family with my stepchildren and I'm now watching it again with my daughter. He's obviously a brilliant actor and he came into the Happy Place studios fresh off the back of the previews for his new play True, in which he plays the author Truman Capote. And we talked about so many things. We talked about our shared love of theatre, also the fear that you have when you go on stage and how you tackle that. A little bit about people pleasing, also his friendship with Taylor Swift, had to bring that up. Modern Family, because obviously it blew up hugely here in the UK. Also Jesse's A D house tour, which I've massively stalked online,

• 1:07Fearne Cotton?

  as well as his conversations with lots of brilliant people and his own podcast, one of my favourites being the chat he had with Jill Biden.

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• 3:07Fearne Cotton?

  Jesse, how are you?

• 3:08Speaker 01

  I'm good.

• 3:09Fearne Cotton?

  Good. I'm so happy that you're back in the UK. I mean, you've been here a lot.

• 3:13Speaker 01

  I have been, actually. The past few years, I feel like I spend a good chunk of my time here. Yeah, it's been nice.

• 3:20Fearne Cotton?

  Because the last time you were doing Jesus Christ Superstar?

• 3:22Speaker 01

  That's right, a few months ago during your ridiculously hot summer.

• 3:26Fearne Cotton?

  So hot.

• 3:27Speaker 01

  I know.

• 3:28Fearne Cotton?

  Crazy.

• 3:28Speaker 01

  I'm accepting all apologies. I'm accepting... People are still apologising for that summer.

• 3:35Fearne Cotton?

  But we...

• 3:35Speaker 01

  Because Brits love to apologise.

• 3:36Fearne Cotton?

  We apologise normally because it's pitting with rain. So with the sun, we're like, look at us, aren't we cool?

• 3:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, it was brutal.

• 3:43Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 3:44Speaker 01

  But I was here for six weeks with my kids. My kids came with me. We were just talking before we started about travelling with kids and they did come with me on that one. And then, yeah, the year before that, I did spend some time at the National Theatre, so yeah.

• 3:59Fearne Cotton?

  So we've got some good theatres here. We're very lucky.

• 4:01Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 4:02Fearne Cotton?

  As you do in New York. I mean, these are the two spots. You want to be in theatre?

• 4:05Speaker 01

  No.

• 4:05Fearne Cotton?

  It's Broadway, it's the West End.

• 4:07Speaker 01

  Totally. And the West End was something I always wanted to do. So when the opportunity came for me to do Here We Are a few summers ago, I immediately left the opportunity and then I kind of thought that that would be it. And then I was just, I'm shocked that I keep being asked back.

• 4:24Fearne Cotton?

  You're the best, that's why.

• 4:26Speaker 01

  I know.

• 4:26Fearne Cotton?

  And you were with lovely Sam Ryder doing Jesus Christ Superstar.

• 4:30Speaker 01

  Do you know him? Have you met him?

• 4:32Fearne Cotton?

  I adore him. He's, well, not sat in this seat, but he's done this podcast. And I am obsessed with him. I actually saw him not long ago, and this makes me sound like an absolute wanker, at Buckingham Palace. We were both at some royal thing for the king.

• 4:45Speaker 01

  Great.

• 4:46Fearne Cotton?

  And I just beelined for him because I knew I'd get a massive hug and have a really great chat. He's the best.

• 4:52Speaker 01

  Totally. He has such great energy. I mean, the moment I met him in rehearsal, he had already been rehearsing for five weeks with the full company. I came in very late because I just had one tiny little song to do in the show, so they plugged me in last minute. And he was the first person to give me the biggest hug and he just really, I mean, he set the tone for the entire company. It's a great company of people, the cast of Jesus Christ Superstar, but it really does trickle down from the top. And I told Sam, I was like, for someone who's never done theatre and is making their theatrical debut, you are really taking the reins and doing all the things you should be doing to create the vibe of a good company. And he doesn't know, I don't think he knows that that's happening.

• 5:33Fearne Cotton?

  That's just his good heart.

• 5:34Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 5:35Fearne Cotton?

  And that voice.

• 5:37Speaker 01

  I mean, well, that just goes without saying. I mean, that's ridiculous.

• 5:40Fearne Cotton?

  Ridiculous.

• 5:41Speaker 01

  I mean, it's insane and I don't know how he has the stamina to do it. And he's, it was interesting watching him sort of learn how to negotiate that, even in the three weeks that I spent with him. And he's coming to my opening of my play with his girlfriend this weekend. So I'm so excited to see him and I'm excited that they're also gonna be remounting the show at the Drury Lane. I'm basically applying for Jesus Christ Superstar. Get your tickets now, but I get to see it because I was in it and I didn't get to see it. So I'm so excited, yeah.

• 6:13Fearne Cotton?

  It's really interesting how one person, usually I'm imagining on a TV show or theatre, how that one person can sort of set the tone for a whole cast or company.

• 6:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:23Fearne Cotton?

  I think it really rings true. I've certainly done TV shows where one person creates that flavour and tone and there's not much movement once it's been set. Have you been on sets or in the theatre where it's just been bad vibes?

• 6:37Speaker 01

  I've been so lucky, honestly. I've heard stories from friends of mine who have had really bad experiences and I'm racking my brain trying to think of if it went really off the rails for me and I don't think it has.

• 6:50Fearne Cotton?

  That's good.

• 6:51Speaker 01

  And I kind of, listen, I think I'm the good luck charm. I think I bring great...

• 6:55Fearne Cotton?

  You're setting the tone.

• 6:56Speaker 01

  I think I'm the tone setter.

• 6:58Fearne Cotton?

  You are.

• 6:58Speaker 01

  That's what I'm getting to. I think it's me.

• 7:01Fearne Cotton?

  So good. And True, your show you're in at the moment, that's good vibes?

• 7:04Speaker 01

  That's good vibes. It's good vibes. It's also, I mean, it's technically a one-person show. We have added another character. So we talk about setting the tone, you know, when it's just me and one other person. But yeah, it's great vibes. And throughout, like, you know, the director and the designers here in London, because all the, the whole crew and team here in London is completely new to us. We did this show in New York.

• 7:26Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 7:26Speaker 01

  But it was with a whole other group of people. So the director and myself and Charlotte, who's on stage with me, are the only three that did it in New York. So this whole group of people that have joined us here in London are just so incredible and everyone at the Minière Chocolate Factory has just been so wonderful and supportive and, yeah, it's really, it's been elevated in a way that I didn't think it could be from New York, which is really exciting.

• 7:49Fearne Cotton?

  Wow, I love that. You're doing previews at the moment. I've always imagined stepping out on stage during a preview week when you know you've got, whether it's critics coming along or people that are diehard theatre fans, that that would create a bit of tension or nerves?

• 8:04Speaker 01

  Correct. It does. It really does. You know, you know that there's like four days before you technically open, there's gonna be people with notepads in the room.

• 8:16Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, that is sickening.

• 8:17Speaker 01

  It's crazy. The thing about theatre is like you really do have a separation where you don't see it.

• 8:22Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 8:22Speaker 01

  You know that they're out there, but you don't see it. However, with this show that I'm doing, it's very environmental. I sit with the audience as close as I'm sitting to you now, closer even.

• 8:33Fearne Cotton?

  Why?

• 8:34Speaker 01

  The play takes place in Truman Capote's living room.

• 8:36Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 8:37Speaker 01

  So you walk into this space and you're in what just looks like a gorgeous living room. And the audience sits on couches, they sit at tables, they sit in the chairs that are around the corner. I mean, there's, I think, 160 seats in there. So, you know, but some of the seats are like my furniture.

• 8:53Fearne Cotton?

  Wow.

• 8:54Speaker 01

  And I come in and then I do the play amongst you. And sometime, and I move all over the room. I get drinks, I put on records, I change my clothes, I sit down, I tell stories, I read books. And it's all part of the show. And so I'm very close to the audience. So when I was in... Previews in New York, I would sit down and there would literally be someone like with a notepad, like reviewing my performance.

• 9:19Fearne Cotton?

  That's awful.

• 9:19Speaker 01

  And I said, well, this is the worst. This can't get any worse.

• 9:23Fearne Cotton?

  That's horrendous.

• 9:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:25Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, how do you deal with those nerves? Because sometimes, I did a new TV show this year.

• 9:31Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 9:31Fearne Cotton?

  And I knew I was the new person on set, so I shit myself.

• 9:34Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 9:35Fearne Cotton?

  But the week before, the nerves turned to dread. I was like, I don't even wanna go. I don't, I don't wanna do it. And of course, it was more than lovely. I actually had the best time ever, which has served as proof that often the things I dread the most are the things I love the most.

• 9:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:51Fearne Cotton?

  But that feeling beforehand is very all consuming. What do you do to mitigate it?

• 9:57Speaker 01

  Well, first of all, I feel like fear, what you're talking about, that, that, that gut feeling of like, oh, my God, I gotta, I gotta get out of this, is just a sign that you should be doing it.

• 10:06Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 10:07Speaker 01

  I think if things don't scare you, like, what's the point? If, if you're feeling like, I got this, it's not gonna challenge you in a way, it's not gonna make you grow. So I always feel like fear is a great sign that it's meant to be done.

• 10:19Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 10:20Speaker 01

  And I, I tackle fear head on when that, when I, when I feel that feeling. I was like, okay, that's exciting for me then.

• 10:26Fearne Cotton?

  Hmm.

• 10:28Speaker 01

  That being said, you have to learn how to work through that fear. Um, and that's the hard part. And I think a lot of that just comes with experience and like confidence and the fact that you know what you're doing. I mean, I'm sure you walked into the set, you're like, I know I, I should be here.

• 10:40Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 10:41Speaker 01

  You know, I know.

• 10:41Fearne Cotton?

  I had to get the first bit out the way.

• 10:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:43Fearne Cotton?

  And then I was good.

• 10:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, it's all about like, exactly what you just said, like, just kinda taking the leap, doing it, and then you're like, okay. Like, literally jumping in the pool and be like, okay, that was a shockingly cold pool, but I'm in now and it feels okay.

• 10:56Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 10:57Speaker 01

  It's all, I, I think that's all part of being an artist in any way and like putting yourself out there. It's like you have to, uh, you have to challenge yourself and you have to do things that are scary. And it should shock your system and it should feel off and it should feel uncomfortable. And that's just how we expand. I mean, so I think for me, and specifically, specifically when talking about, you know, critics, like that, that's another whole other level. Because it really does boil down to just me knowing I'm,

• 11:32Speaker 01

  I'm good enough and I'm, I'm supposed to be there. Um, and that I'm not gonna please everyone. That's the other thing that's so hard for me to remember. And I'm still working through that is I'm such a people pleaser and I just want everyone to love me.

• 11:45Fearne Cotton?

  Same.

• 11:46Speaker 01

  And I, I have to remember that, especially in, with any art, but like, there are, there are two people that can look at something. And one person, it could be changing their life. And like, this moment is like absolutely going to dictate how the rest of their life goes, or it's gonna change the course of their life. That certainly happened for me as I watched people on stage. And then sitting right next to that person is someone who fucking hates it so much.

• 12:11Fearne Cotton?

  It's the worst.

• 12:11Speaker 01

  And it's the same thing, you're offering the same thing.

• 12:13Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 12:14Speaker 01

  And you can't worry about it. You can't worry about the life you might be changing. You can't worry about the, um, the person who you're making miserable. You just have to do what you're doing.

• 12:25Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 12:26Speaker 01

  And it's hard, I'm still, I'm not good at it. I'm, I'm gonna say that right now, I'm not good at it. I'm not good at letting that go, but it's what I know I have to do.

• 12:33Fearne Cotton?

  I'm exactly the same. And I think you've totally nailed it by saying, you actually can't take either end of the spectrum seriously. The praise, adulation that you may get at the end, you're taking a bow on stage versus the opposite of that, which none of us wanna really look at. But it is, it's a tricky thing when your job is public facing and you do, you know, you're open to constant feedback, whether it's social media or in a more niche way, being on stage at the moment. And if you were to dare to look online or a newspaper reviews, not that any of us should, you just, you, you know, we should just block it out. But it does, it does hurt when you know people don't like what they're seeing or, or it's a personal attack on you.

• 13:14Fearne Cotton?

  It feels horrible, but looking at the other side of that, the sort of seeking validation. And I think about this a lot, like, why have I chosen this career where I am putting myself out at the whole time? And how much of me in my mid forties is still seeking strangers to go, you, you're doing okay, you're all right.

• 13:33Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 13:34Fearne Cotton?

  It's, it's almost like less about the negative and like, why am I still sort of, I must be subconsciously seeking that still. Do you, do you think there's a bit of you that's doing that?

• 13:43Speaker 01

  I think we all, we all just naturally seek, um, validation. I mean, uh, when we were in school, we would turn in our homework and there'd be a grade on it. You know, it's like, and that would, that meant something to us. So we're sort of wired that way to like, be validated. So I think, you know, it's a tricky thing because I don't wanna live a life seeking validation. But at the same time, like, that, there is an endorphin that like is, is met, that, that, that, when you, when someone validates you.

• 14:16Speaker 01

  I don't know, I mean, I, I, it's, it's tricky. I, I wish it didn't mean so much, you know? I really do.

• 14:24Fearne Cotton?

  Me too.

• 14:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:25Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, if you look at the character you're playing currently, Truman Capote, he was, I guess, in a sort of Andy Warhol way, fascinated with fame and very attracted to it. What's your relationship with it? How, how do you view, it's changed a lot since you started out as well, what fame is and what it means.

• 14:40Speaker 01

  Right, right. It's never what you expected to be. I will say that, like, I mean, I think we all fantasize about like, oh, what it would like to be famous, whether it's good or bad. You know, like, oh, I would hate that or I would love that. Like, I, i- i- it's, it's nothing like I fantasized it being. Um, I have a, I think like most people, a sort of like love hate relationship with my, um, notoriety and my loss of anonymity. I think there are certainly obviously perks to it, but there are things that you, you sacrifice that are really hard to let go of.

• 15:22Speaker 01

  And for, you know, it, and it depends on the, the, the type of person. I, I'm a person who really loves their privacy and anonymity. And like, I don't have the ability to really just like, go shopping in a mall and, and, you know, just like do window shopping without, you know, people looking at me in a certain way. And I'm just very, very aware of it now. And that's something that, uh, I have just had to learn to cope with. Like, I, I can tell when someone like, uh, forty feet away is like getting excited about clocking me.

• 15:59Fearne Cotton?

  They're stage whispering.

• 16:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like I have like this supersonic hearing, I could hear everything. And like, I wanna say, I hear you, I know what's going on. And I have done that before, when people are like, it, it goes on for too long, I was like, I know it's happening. And I try and like make light of the situation. I feel like I want people, if they are going to have an interaction with me to, to, for it to be pleasant.

• 16:19Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 16:19Speaker 01

  Um, and I, I also acknowledge the fact that it's such a blessing when your work means something to someone. You know, I, I, my mom was a nurse and my dad was a microbiologist. And I sometimes wish that they were able to be met with praise about their careers in the way that I'm met with praise about my career. Because they deserved it just as much, they were doing great work. And it really does feel nice when people come up to me and say, you know, your work means something to me.

• 16:57Speaker 01

  And I think that that is, that's something I treasure and it, it never gets old. People always say, you probably hear this all the time, it's like, it really honestly does not ever get.

• 17:05Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 17:05Speaker 01

  Get old. I mean, I hear the same thing over and over and it does feel nice to know that something I did impacted someone's life in that way. And I do wish that other people could have that feeling. It's lovely.

• 17:19Fearne Cotton?

  It is so lovely. And also I think sometimes, especially when it's not necessarily strangers, but people actually in your life. When, when you're good at doing something, often people think, I don't need to tell them they're good, they know they're good. They're on a West End stage or whatever. So when it's a friend, you're like, oh my God, that, that truly is so lovely to hear that, so lovely.

• 17:40Speaker 01

  It's interesting that you just said that because I sometimes when I. Meet people who I admire greatly. I think, oh, I shouldn't say anything. It's weird. And like, and then I think, well, I never, I mean, I'm always happy to hear that someone likes what I do. So I have been brave and I've gone up to people and I went to go see Josh, Josh O'Connor and Golden Boy. And, and he was standing there. I was, I was on press night and he was with people. And I was like, I'm not gonna bother him. I was like, what if he sees me and like, maybe he's a fan of Modern Family, like, and like, he's bummed out if I didn't say something. And I really loved his performance. And I've been a fan of his for a long time. So I was like,

• 18:22Speaker 01

  I'm just gonna, on my way out, say something. And I'm so glad I did. And you could tell, I could tell by the way he interacted with me that he did see me and he did know who I was. And I felt, all I said was, you did remarkable work and you should be so proud. And that was it. That was it. And I'm so glad I did. And I meant it. And I'm happy that I was able to have that exchange with him. But I was like, I don't know why I was so nervous to do that.

• 18:49Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. Well, listen, you have to cross this threshold of awkwardness to kind of, I've done that. I live quite near David Attenborough, and I've never gone over. I'm like, I would never dare disturb his peace. There's no way. But partly wants to go, I've watched every one of your shows and you're just changing the world and you're amazing. You're a hundred. Oh, my God.

• 19:08Speaker 01

  Well, if you saw him like puttering around the neighborhood, would you, you wouldn't?

• 19:12Fearne Cotton?

  No, completely. I just look away. I'm like, I'm not even gonna look at him. I can't. It's too, it's too terrifying. He's, he's too revered. But I think it is lovely when, when it's not just kind of a selfie, when it's people actually saying

• 19:23Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 19:24Fearne Cotton?

  Something kind and that your work's meaningful. That's always gonna be a gorgeous thing.

• 19:28Speaker 01

  Right. And I also don't, I don't get super, it is nice when there's an interaction and that's, that's all it is. And they just wanted to say something. And I do love that. And I, I don't always get upset when the selfie happens afterwards. Like, I, it's sometimes when it's just, they come up and I was like, can I have a selfie? And that's all it is. And they basically barely even look at me. They take a picture, capture my image, and then they're gone. And I was like, I don't even know if we ever made, we ever made eye contact. That, that's always a little awkward and rough. I'm friendly with Taylor Swift and I was backstage with her, with my, I brought my niece to one of her shows. And, and I know my niece wanted a photo so badly, but she was not gonna ask. And I certainly wasn't gonna ask if they could take a picture. And we were having this really lovely

• 20:13Speaker 01

  interaction. And Taylor goes, should we take an epic selfie together? And, and Amanda's like, yes. And she, so she took the reins and like, offered it. Cause she knew, she knows that's what she knows. She knows that's what they want. And she was in that mode where she was backstage. She was in work mode. Like, this is her interaction with her fans. And, you know, I mean, she probably wouldn't do that if she just were walking down the street, like, walking down the sidewalk saying, should we all take a selfie? I mean, but you know, she was in that moment. So I was, I took a note from her. I was like, well, that is, that's so classy.

• 20:47Fearne Cotton?

  She's so classy and she's so kind. I've interviewed her a couple of times. And I've just, from the minute she's walked in the door, just thought, what a decent human being. She's a good egg, that one.

• 20:57Speaker 01

  No, she is. She's got, she was raised well. Her parents are incredible. She's got a good family. Yeah, no, she's the real deal.

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• 23:17Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, obviously, your, your fame went global with Modern Family.

• 23:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:22Fearne Cotton?

  And, and that's a different thing when you're, you're not even safe to come to the UK and, and to walk around, you know, you're, you're gonna be recognized pretty much wherever you go. Was that initially a shock to the system to kind of deal with?

• 23:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, the, the world, the world notoriety is a, a new thing. I mean, and it's not everywhere, but there are places where I go, I'm like, oh, I had no idea that the show was a thing here. And it is. It's interesting, because when I first came to the UK to do press for Modern Family, we weren't super popular. I mean, it had been on for a few seasons and I think it was something you had to sort of find still. Now, it's become this thing that everyone knows, or a lot of people know. I won't say everyone. But it's a different level. And so, you know, I was with Charlotte, my, my co-star and True, and she's a New Yorker. And we've, we're, we're good friends. And we've known each other for a while. And we were seeing some theater on our off night a few nights ago.

• 24:19Speaker 01

  And I was getting stopped a lot. And she's like, I just forget that you're famous. And it's, she's like, I just didn't realize it was such a global thing. Like, we're in the UK. And like, it's maybe worse here than it is in the States. I was like, I know, it's, it's, it's wild. And, you know, I remember being in the Sistine Chapel. And I was doing a tour of my, with my family. And we were all just, we were, we were tourists. We were looking at the same thing that everyone else was there to look at. We're all looking at the ceiling. There were people taking photos of me. And I was like, look up.

• 24:52Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, there's Michelangelo's hands touching up there.

• 24:54Speaker 01

  This is way more interesting. But it was wild.

• 24:58Fearne Cotton?

  I got told off in the Sistine Chapel.

• 25:00Speaker 01

  Did, would you, you were talking?

• 25:02Fearne Cotton?

  I was talking, so I didn't, I was excited.

• 25:05Speaker 01

  You were told Silencio.

• 25:06Fearne Cotton?

  The guys are mean in there. They are mean.

• 25:09Speaker 01

  They don't joke around.

• 25:10Fearne Cotton?

  I was like, we're in a holy place. Surely you can be a bit holier about this interaction. I got, I got taken down. This guy was, he went nuts at me. I was talking, and you're not meant to take pictures. And I was like, if I just did a sneaky, without the flash, because I respect the artwork, I'm a big art fan. But I really want a picture of the Sistine Chapel ceiling. And he saw me and it went down.

• 25:32Speaker 01

  They got eagle eyes.

• 25:33Fearne Cotton?

  Like a sack of shit. It went down real bad. It was really horrible. Scary man.

• 25:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you feel like shit.

• 25:39Fearne Cotton?

  I felt like I was four. I was like a four-year-old child. Like, oh, my God, I wanna go and cry outside. It was so bad. But what a place, what a place.

• 25:45Speaker 01

  I know, truly.

• 25:46Fearne Cotton?

  Modern Family clearly spoke to a lot of people. I remember watching it. I've watched the whole thing twice, because I watched it with my stepkids a million years ago. And now my daughter and I are watching it together. And it, for every generation and every, well, seemingly nation that loved it, it captured our hearts. And it's, it's a cozy show. It's something that makes you feel wholesome and like, there are good eggs out there in the world. And the chemistry between all of you, especially you and your on-screen partner, Eric, it's just such a beautiful, natural thing to watch all of you get on. Did you have any idea when you started that, that you were creating that sort of magic?

• 26:27Speaker 01

  I, I knew the script was very special. Just from the get-go. I was like, oh, the minute I read it, even before I had auditioned for it, I was like, well, this is something different. You know, when the writing's that good, you think, well, at least this has a shot of getting made. You know, I've been in things and I'm like, I don't know about this one. But this one, I was like, well, this is very, very good. Whoever gets this is gonna be very lucky. And then it happened to be me. And then, you know, when you're shooting it, it felt, I was like, well, it's going well. It seems to be going well. I don't know how it's all gonna cut together, but it seems special and interesting. The chemistry between all of us is great. We all really like each other. And then, you know, you see it cut together, and you're like, well, that

• 27:08Speaker 01

  turned out well. And you're like, well, I hope the network, like, you know, supports it properly. And I hope that people, other people like, I could just, am I in a bubble? Am I in a crazy bubble? And so I showed it to some friends and like, well, this is pretty good. You know, there's that moment where you're like, can I show you my pilot? And people are like, oh, my God. Okay, put it in. This is back when I had DVDs gathered around the TV. And so, you know, there's all these steps that have to happen for it to be good. But I feel like every step of the way, I was like, that went well, that went well, that went well. And, and then, when, when they, the network picked it up, they do this thing in, in New York, I don't know if they do it here, called Upfronts, where they basically, each network announces the full season of their new, their new

• 27:53Speaker 01

  slate and the returning shows. And every network, I don't even know if they do this anymore, because now it sort of seems like a thing of the past. But they like, you know, they'll go to Carnegie Hall, and all the advertisers will go there. And it's basically the network rolling out their season. And They show clips of all the shows and they decided to show the entire pilot of Modern Family, which is not, it's very risky because they have all these people sort of trapped in a room. The reporters, they're tired. They've been doing, you know, junkets all day. To make them sit there and watch 22 minutes of the same, of one thing is just, it's risky. And it went over so well, I guess. I wasn't in the room, but I had heard that

• 28:35Speaker 01

  it was like, unlike anything in the history of upfronts, where this entire theater full of people, a Carnegie Hall full of people were just like laughing at this pilot. And everyone knew, I think at that point, that it was gonna be a huge thing. And I got reports back, they're like, they showed the entire pilot upfronts and like, it just went over so well. And so we kind of went into the season thinking, okay, well, it's, it's this thing. And, um, but it does happen slowly. I mean, you know, people still discovered it. And I think that was great. But, um, you know, we, right out of the gate, it was, it was the show that won the Emmy Award that, that year. And then for the next four years after that, we won five in a row, which was wild. And then, you know, there's like the

• 29:19Speaker 01

  fifth season, when you win that, the fifth Emmy Award, there's like a collective groan in the audience. Like, oh, the tables have turned. Like, we're not the kids that are like fun to have around anymore. They're like, oh, my God, make room for someone else. And it does shift. And it is that, that, that wild thing. Like, well, God, I mean, we were the life of the party. And like, everyone was so excited. So I remember walking into a party and Victoria Beckham and David Beckham like gasped when they met me. And they're like, and she was like, David, David, it's, it's, it's, and I was like, oh, my God. And like, I met them and they were so lovely and they were so excited to meet me. And I was like, this is crazy.

• 29:54Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 29:55Speaker 01

  And, and then, you know, then after like five years, it's just like, on to the next thing. It's, it's wild.

• 30:02Fearne Cotton?

  When you have a moment, like you're at the Emmys and you're winning, or when you won your Tony Award, which as far as theater goes, it doesn't get any bigger than that.

• 30:10Speaker 01

  Well, now, that's the best.

• 30:11Fearne Cotton?

  Do you let that land? Are you good at going, yeah, I know that. I did good there.

• 30:19Speaker 01

  I'm not good at it in the moment. I will say that. Even with the Tony Award, I, I remember I, I won the Tony Award. I, one of the first people I saw was my publicist and I was just sort of like, white and she was so excited for me. And she's like, why aren't you more excited? I was like, I swear to God, I am. I just don't know how to process this. And then you're thrown into interviews and like, they're like, throw it up in the air, like, jump, scream. I was like, I can't do any of that. That doesn't feel organic. Like, I was just like, all the photos, just me like, like a nerd with this Tony. Like, really awkward. Almost like, I don't know if I deserve this or not. But I, afterwards, after it sort of, the dust settles, I'm sort of able to be proud of those moments. Yeah. But it's hard in the moment for me.

• 31:01Fearne Cotton?

  I guess also, there's an element of, okay, what's next? Like, you can't sit in that and go, I've smashed it. I've nailed it. Especially in the industry you're in.

• 31:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:10Fearne Cotton?

  It's also unknown and risky. And you know that going into it, you know, you, you, you grew up thinking, I want to be an actor. But, and maybe I guess youth and naivety allows you to then go, I'm just gonna throw myself into it. But there are no guarantees. Have you always been able to keep quite focused amongst having that sort of unpredictability?

• 31:31Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, I, I know that the uncertainty is, is part of just the, the nature of the, the business. But, I mean, again, it circles back to what we were talking about earlier. It's just like having faith in yourself and knowing that you're good enough and you can only do you to the best of your ability. And you want to find the things that, that, that really complement what you can do. And, and, um, and that's hard, that, that's the hard part though. Because, you know, there are moments where it's just like, it can get really quiet. And, you know, I did a show for 11 seasons and that was like a

• 32:13Speaker 01

  full-time job. I mean, I know people who haven't had full-time jobs that have lasted that long.

• 32:17Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 32:18Speaker 01

  Like, in, in like, you know, other industries. Um, and, you know, I met my husband when we were, when I was just starting Modern Family. And so when he, our whole career, I had this like full-time job. And so when the 11 seasons ended and I was unemployed, I was like, okay, so now you're gonna see what it's like to actually be married to an actor. Because like, the last 11 years was, was a, not a reality. That's not normal. And it was an adjustment for him.

• 32:49Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 32:50Speaker 01

  You know, I watched him like be nervous about like, oh, God, like, when are you going to get another job? Is our family gonna be okay? And, you know, I was like, I, I can't worry about that. I can't take on that stress because I have to know that I'm gonna be okay. And there's gonna be opportunity. And sometimes I have to create that opportunity. Uh, but that's gonna take time. And it's, it's all gonna be okay.

• 33:12Fearne Cotton?

  Hmm.

• 33:13Speaker 01

  I mean, there's just no point in like stressing about something I have no control over.

• 33:19Fearne Cotton?

  No. I mean, what did your parents think, knowing you were going into that? It sounds like they had quite sensible jobs.

• 33:24Speaker 01

  They did.

• 33:25Fearne Cotton?

  And then you were like, I want to be an actor.

• 33:26Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, they knew from a very early age that that was something I was really passionate about. And I really, I'm so lucky that they were supportive of that passion because it's not a, a career path that has any sort of certainty. I mean, there are many career paths that don't have certainty, but that is high up on the list.

• 33:43Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 33:44Speaker 01

  Um, and they were fine with it. They, they loved that I was pursuing something that I loved. Um, I think that they were certainly relieved when I started getting good work. Um, and you know, they're, they've been endlessly proud of all of my achievements. But I think that, uh, I'm sure, like, being a parent now myself, I can imagine that they were like, oh, God.

• 34:09Fearne Cotton?

  They're having private meetings when you're at the house.

• 34:11Speaker 01

  But I never heard them. I mean, they were really supportive. Yeah. They were very, I think, and I look at my kids now and I, I, I think if they were passionate about something, how could you not want to support that?

• 34:22Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. You have to let them do what they want to do. And, and make sure that they're enjoying as much of it as possible. I think that's all we can do, isn't it, really? Would you, your kids are tiny still.

• 34:35Speaker 01

  They're pretty little.

• 34:36Fearne Cotton?

  They're what, four?

• 34:37Speaker 01

  Four and six.

• 34:37Fearne Cotton?

  Four and six. So you don't have to worry too much about the career path just yet.

• 34:41Speaker 01

  No.

• 34:42Fearne Cotton?

  But if they said, oh, Dad, I want to be an actor, how would you, how would that go down?

• 34:47Speaker 01

  I just don't think it's gonna happen. I don't think they have the chops.

• 34:52Fearne Cotton?

  You can see already.

• 34:53Speaker 01

  My son, who's six, um, was in Shrek the Musical at his school. He did a musical theater, um, like after school, what is it called? Like a enrichment program. And, uh, I thought he was gonna like it. And he, he chose it because he knows that I do theater. And I don't think he liked it very much. And then it got to the point where he needed to do the show. And, and he was really nervous and he was really having a hard time, like working up his, his courage to do it. And I was like, you're gonna be great. You know this. And you have just a few lines and it's gonna be great. And I was like, what are you so nervous to be? I was like, I just, I'm really scared to perform in front of all those people. And I was like, well, how many people do you think it's gonna be? And he's like, well, I saw you do Shakespeare in the Park at the Delicate Theater, 2,000

• 35:37Speaker 01

  seats. And I said, oh, I, I, I basically said, oh, honey, you have to work up to that.

• 35:44Speaker 01

  I was like, it's gonna be like two rows of.

• 35:46Fearne Cotton?

  Let's humble you.

• 35:46Speaker 01

  Parents. Yeah. Where, you're gonna be five. You're gonna be five.

• 35:51Fearne Cotton?

  Brilliant. Do you think, do they get what you do? Do they?

• 35:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. I think, and I've, I've wanted them to get it because it's a very strange profession. And I know, the, the thing that I was, we're still negotiating around is like, people recognizing me outside. And that, that part, I'm like, I'm not fully sure how to explain that. Um, I did tell them that I, I was on a show. They know about Modern Family. They know, they don't, they've never seen it, but they know what it is. And I think some of their kids at school, their parents have said, oh, Beckett's dad was on Modern Family. So they told Beckett, your dad was on Modern Family.

• 36:24Fearne Cotton?

  Right.

• 36:25Speaker 01

  So he tells me, I was like, yes, I know. I'm aware. But, uh, they have come to the theater. Like, the theater is something I really want them to be exposed to because I just feel like the community is so lovely. And there's, I want them to be fans of theater and they are. So they have come to the theater with me. When I was doing Jesus Christ Superstar, I had so much time backstage. They got to watch me put my makeup on and they watched the show on the monitor. And then I'd leave them with, um, the, the, the Courtney, who was the swing of the, uh, on Jesus Christ Superstar. She sat in my dressing room with them and then gave them a tour of the theater while I went on stage and did my number. And then, uh, so like, they got to experience sort of like what it is that I do. And so they have a point of reference when I go away, specifically at night to do theater,

• 37:06Speaker 01

  that that's what I have to go do. Um, and I've taken them to see shows and, you know, they, they, they do get it.

• 37:15Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 37:16Speaker 01

  Um, they haven't been on a set yet, which will be another interesting thing.

• 37:21Fearne Cotton?

  It's interesting when you merge the worlds of being a parent and work. I find, obviously, being a parent is ultimately humbling all the time. If you were to get any sort of praise or ahead of yourself at work, kids will knock that shit out of you immediately. I remember like, when my kids were your kids' ages, I'd had this day where I'd done this big like interview at Coldplay and I was really chuffed with myself. And I came back with a spring in my step and I was putting my son in the bath and he just shits onto the bathroom floor. And I was like, oh, no, I'm just a human. I'm just a, I'm just a human clearing up human shit from the floor.

• 37:57Speaker 01

  That's right. That's right.

• 37:58Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. They just humble you.

• 37:59Speaker 01

  They do. And I appreciate that though. I really do.

• 38:02Fearne Cotton?

  I love it.

• 38:03Speaker 01

  I do love it. Um, I, and I love like, being around, like, I've been around celebrities with my kids and just, they're, they're just disinterested on it. We were around Jimmy Kimmel, who, uh, wrote this, he's a, you know, who is, right? Uh, so a, a TV presenter, as you say, in the, in the US. And he wrote a really great book called The Very Silly Goose, or The Very Serious Goose, rather. And it's one of Beckett's favorite books. And so I was like, Beckett, that man over there wrote The Very Serious Goose. And he was like, oh, interesting. And so I, I introduced them and I was like, do you want to tell Jimmy something? He's like, oh, I like your book. And then he was just like, you know.

• 38:44Speaker 01

  And Jimmy's like, wow, that is.

• 38:46Fearne Cotton?

  They don't care.

• 38:46Speaker 01

  They don't care.

• 38:47Fearne Cotton?

  They don't give a shit.

• 38:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:48Fearne Cotton?

  They don't give a shit.

• 38:49Speaker 01

  They don't give a shit and I love it.

• 38:50Fearne Cotton?

  Are you the sort of dad that you thought you were gonna be?

• 38:54Speaker 01

  I think so. I think so. I think I'm less strict than I thought I was gonna be.

• 39:00Fearne Cotton?

  Really?

• 39:00Speaker 01

  I'm definitely, I'm more soft than I thought I was gonna be. I thought I'd be a little bit more strict and um rigid and I, you know, structured.

• 39:08Fearne Cotton?

  Right.

• 39:09Speaker 01

  They break my heart in the easiest ways and I'm just, I just crumble.

• 39:15Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 39:15Speaker 01

  And I'm trying not to. Justin's really good about like, you know, being a little bit more stern. Thank God. Thank God.

• 39:22Fearne Cotton?

  Balance is your own.

• 39:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, my God, because I am way too weak. Yeah, but I think I am. I think I am the type of dad that I thought was gonna be. You know, it's interesting with Modern Family, people always ask me, it's like, did it give me practice for being a dad? And Aubrey, who played my daughter for most of the, the run, um, she was very young when I met her. She was basically my, my younger son's age and um, it's so crazy to think about.

• 39:47Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 39:47Speaker 01

  But, you know, I, I look at how I interact with my son and that's sort of how Aubrey and I interacted with. You know, I wanted to, I wanted her to like me. I wanted her to feel safe with me and I want her to have fun with me. Um, so I just, I played with her like I, I imagined at that point a dad would play with their kid. Uh, and I was just hopefully a fun person to be around. And we have a great relationship now. And so it's like, I think like, okay, that was the right thing.

• 40:17Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 40:18Speaker 01

  You know, because there is that weird thing with kids and actors, especially kids that young, like, how much are you meant to interact with them? You know, it is a job at the same time and like they should be staying focused and learning their lines, but it's also their kids and like, I don't want to, I don't want to make the situation feel too scary so that she's not able to perform within that. So it's a weird balance and um.

• 40:40Fearne Cotton?

  You're doing a bit of practice parenting for sure.

• 40:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, but for sure. I, I think it did help me figure out like how to just be around kids that age.

• 40:48Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. And how do you find the juggle? Cause you know, you and your husband both have busy lives.

• 40:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:52Fearne Cotton?

  And unusual, an unusual job and then juggling small kids in the mix. It's, it's not easy.

• 40:58Speaker 01

  It's not. I mean, our, my in-laws live really close. That's great. That's huge. Um, I either, I don't know, I, I find that I've, I've asked this with a lot, to a lot of people who spend time away from their kids um, for stretches of time. Like, how do you do it? How does it? How do you reconcile that with yourself? And I've gotten lots of different sort of feedback and the feedback that I, I hear pretty consistently is, is that um, it's so important for your kids to see you do something that you're passionate about. And sometimes that means doing something that takes you away from them, but it's something that brings you joy.

• 41:42Speaker 01

  And it's important for your kids to see you

• 41:47Speaker 01

  prioritizing your joy because you want them to prioritize theirs.

• 41:50Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 41:51Speaker 01

  And uh,

• 41:54Speaker 01

  and I think that's, that's really wise sage advice. And I think, you know, the thing that you hear that it's probably, you're probably feeling more guilt than uh, they're even feeling or that you're, you're feeling worse than they are.

• 42:05Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, totally.

• 42:06Speaker 01

  Exactly. It's, I think also very true.

• 42:08Fearne Cotton?

  The guilt is, it does nothing, but we all feel it, you know?

• 42:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 42:12Fearne Cotton?

  But you're so right. I think if your kids see you, well, they just wanna, they want you to be happy, whether they know that or not. They don't want grumpy, stressed out parents and we, of course, we all are at some point, but I think the more that we can show them, it's okay to, to do things that make you feel good and

• 42:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:27Fearne Cotton?

  put yourself first sometimes, which is bloody hard to showcase, but you know, we give it a go.

• 42:32Speaker 01

  My son was asking, my, my son, my older son Beckett was asking why I had to come do True in London. I was like, well, people here want to see me do it. And I, you know, you got to see, he saw it, he saw it in New York. He was probably too young to see this.

• 42:46Speaker 01

  He was bored out of his gourd. But uh, you know, I was like, you saw what it was? Like, people want to see me do that here. And he's like, okay, I get it. Like.

• 42:53Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. And I love it. And I love doing it.

• 42:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. And I love doing it too.

• 42:57Fearne Cotton?

  That's a harder one to say because you're like, I always find that really hard. Like, because I want, because I want to do it, you know? I'll, I'll sometimes give the martyr answer to my kids. Like, well, we need to, we've got, we've got bills to pay and whatever.

• 43:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I do say that too. I was like, well, this is how I

• 43:12Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 43:12Speaker 01

  put food on our table.

• 43:13Fearne Cotton?

  Exactly. But also, I love it.

• 43:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:15Fearne Cotton?

  I love it. And it's okay to say it, but it feels so, there's an awkwardness.

• 43:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, we always say, well, what are some of the things that you like to do? Like, that, that take you away from us? Like, you know, when you are at soccer practice or karate, granted, we're driving them to these places, we're not far away, but like, you know, it's, it's uh, you know, he gets it. So it's like these, we all do things that we, we want to do that make us happy.

• 43:36Fearne Cotton?

  Exactly.

• 43:44Speaker 02

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• 45:20Fearne Cotton?

  Hey, I loved snooping around your house via Architectural Digest. Oh my God, the great room.

• 45:27Speaker 01

  I know.

• 45:28Fearne Cotton?

  What a room.

• 45:28Speaker 01

  I know.

• 45:29Fearne Cotton?

  I loved it.

• 45:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:30Fearne Cotton?

  It's, it's the dream house. Do you love hosting in that room?

• 45:34Speaker 01

  I do. I do. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. We're, we're, we're um, always hosting. I, I just threw Justin a 41st birthday party.

• 45:40Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, nice. Are you a good cook? Cause you do your podcast. Your podcast is all based around food, but you're not cooking.

• 45:46Speaker 01

  I'm not cooking it. It was pitched to me when Sony pitched me some podcast ideas. They wanted to do something in the culinary world. Because I, I love the culinary world. I've hosted the Jane's Beard Awards a few times, which is like the Oscars for the culinary world in the States. And um, and I have a cookbook that I wrote and uh, so they said, well, we would like to do something in the culinary space. And so the, there was a few ideas pitched to me and one of them was me cooking with people and uh, and I thought, well, that just sounds like a lot of work. That just sounds like way too much. Cooking every week with someone and coding conversation?

• 46:22Fearne Cotton?

  Oh no, I can't do two things at once.

• 46:24Speaker 01

  Oh God, no.

• 46:24Fearne Cotton?

  No, no, no, no.

• 46:25Speaker 01

  And like, do I have to use my own kitchen? Like, I just, no, so the, the, the concept we ended up going with was me taking people out to restaurants and having a conversation over a meal at a restaurant, which is great.

• 46:37Fearne Cotton?

  So good.

• 46:38Speaker 01

  Have someone else do it for us.

• 46:39Fearne Cotton?

  Oh my God, I've loved so many of them. The Dr. Jill Biden one was fascinating.

• 46:43Speaker 01

  Yes, that's a, that's a very, a very good one. I'm very proud of that one.

• 46:47Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 46:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, she was wonderful.

• 46:50Fearne Cotton?

  That conversation was nuts. I couldn't believe she was so relaxed with you. You got so much out of her.

• 46:55Speaker 01

  I did. I, I had met her before briefly. Not, I, I don't know her well. I don't really know her at all, but I, I'd met her briefly. But I was sort of given a heads up that she is an open book.

• 47:07Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, without a doubt.

• 47:08Speaker 01

  And so I, I was brave and I asked some questions that I was scared to ask specifically about, you know, her husband's uh, Bad debate performance that sort of brought him down. And she was very candid with all of her, her experience with it.

• 47:26Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 47:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, she was great.

• 47:29Fearne Cotton?

  That was an amazing chat. I couldn't believe she was telling you about how when the Trump administration were coming in, they were gonna bin all of her stuff. They're like, you gotta buy it back or we're gonna put it in a skip, basically.

• 47:39Speaker 01

  Isn't that fascinating?

• 47:40Fearne Cotton?

  I, my jaw was on the floor hearing her admit to it. I was like, I can't believe that she's just saying this out loud.

• 47:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, and just also her experience with the demolition of the East Wing, you know?

• 47:54Speaker 01

  And, you know, being kind of like one of the last people to really embody that space. And she's sort of, you know, her account of it is the most recent. And I think that's really fascinating. It's a part of our history that's just gone.

• 48:06Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, it's wild. What a chat. What, and also a privilege to sit. And that's why I love doing this job is each week, I, you know, I often get to the end of a week and think, oh, my God, I, what a joy that I got to sit with people from all these different backgrounds, these different life experiences and stories and just ask some questions and sit and listen to stories. There's something about storytelling, which is, I think, unmatched. I just love it.

• 48:34Speaker 01

  Wait, can I ask you a question? Cause you're a better at this than I am.

• 48:36Fearne Cotton?

  Don't know about that.

• 48:37Speaker 01

  Well, what do you do? Cause I'm sure everyone is not great. What do you do when people are not forthcoming or they provide like one word answers? And like, they're just like, next question, please.

• 48:48Fearne Cotton?

  Horrendous.

• 48:49Speaker 01

  Because I'm still working out how to work around that.

• 48:52Fearne Cotton?

  Okay, so the honest answer is, in this space, it is devastating. Because this is long form chatting.

• 49:00Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 49:01Fearne Cotton?

  Back when I did radio for years and years, you would get the odd, you know, musicians aren't always very forthcoming with storytelling. Because that's not what they're there for. They're, they're music makers. They're in small studios, working on their own for hours. And you, you knew the bands or artists that would come in and they didn't really wanna talk. So you'd think, let's just keep this short and brief and make it about the music. Fine. In this space, doesn't work.

• 49:24Speaker 01

  No.

• 49:24Fearne Cotton?

  I've only had it once.

• 49:26Speaker 01

  Really?

• 49:26Fearne Cotton?

  Where the person I was interviewing was almost acting as if we were in a eight minute promo setting.

• 49:33Speaker 01

  Got it.

• 49:34Fearne Cotton?

  And I was scrambling. Inside, I was full panic, full panic. You know, I always go and do my research. I've got enough avenues to go down. I had done all avenues in about five minutes. I was shaking myself. So I ended up talking about all sorts of random shit and then I binned the podcast. It didn't see the light of day. I just thought, I don't want people to hear me sounding desperate. Thank you very much.

• 49:59Speaker 01

  But you made it through an hour?

• 50:00Fearne Cotton?

  Not nowhere near. I mean, half an hour. And I think I then felt so drained.

• 50:05Speaker 01

  And how did, like, can you, do you remember how you wrapped it up?

• 50:08Fearne Cotton?

  No, because I have filed it in bin in my brain. It's never to be thought about again. It's just, it's the worst, the worst.

• 50:18Speaker 01

  It's hard. Yeah, I've had, I've had a few where it's been hard.

• 50:22Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, it feels eggy and clunky and clumsy. And I don't like that. I would just say, don't turn up to the, just don't come on the podcast. Just say, I can't be bothered. I don't wanna do it.

• 50:35Speaker 01

  I know, that's okay.

• 50:36Fearne Cotton?

  No one wants it, for them or me.

• 50:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, exactly.

• 50:38Fearne Cotton?

  Certainly not the listener.

• 50:40Speaker 01

  No, no, we're doing no one any favors. It's a waste of everyone's time.

• 50:44Fearne Cotton?

  Everyone's time. Um, the, the lovely part of you getting to sit and have a chat in the setting that you've chosen, which are lovely restaurants, is then getting to sample gorgeous food. What is your dream meal? What's your cuisine of choice?

• 50:58Speaker 01

  Oh, God. I mean, I, I'm a big fan of Mexican food, Indian food, Thai food. I like big flavor.

• 51:08Speaker 01

  Oh, God. I mean, I've gotten to eat so much great food on this podcast. And the great thing about doing it is I, I get to take it, like, if I'm working in New York, I do podcast episodes in New York. I'm doing some here while I'm in London. So I get to go all over the place and try all these incredible restaurants.

• 51:27Speaker 01

  I just did a, an episode of, I always get the two confused. There's Sunday brunch and Saturday kitchen. Okay.

• 51:36Fearne Cotton?

  Sunday brunch is the one where you sit there for hours. I've done it a million times.

• 51:39Speaker 01

  I've done both.

• 51:40Fearne Cotton?

  And you get to drink. It's fantastic. Yeah.

• 51:42Speaker 01

  So I was on Sunday brunch and there was a, these guys, I wish I could remember the name of their restaurant. It's so good. Anyway, they, they cooked for us and I was like, well, that's where I'm doing an episode of my podcast at that restaurant.

• 51:55Fearne Cotton?

  Yes, I love that. So we'll do some episodes whilst you're over here.

• 51:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:59Fearne Cotton?

  Amazing. I love that. And what do you do? I always wonder this when I go and watch a show in the theatre. Do you eat after the show or before?

• 52:07Speaker 01

  It's a great question, actually. I have not figured this out yet.

• 52:09Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 52:10Speaker 01

  I try to eat before, something light. I don't like to eat heavy after the show.

• 52:16Fearne Cotton?

  No, gross.

• 52:17Speaker 01

  I'd rather go to bed hungry and then have just like a really good breakfast the next day.

• 52:21Fearne Cotton?

  I hate going to bed full.

• 52:23Speaker 01

  I do too. Although last night I was, I did have two bags of like popcorn.

• 52:27Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, popcorn's nothing. That's it. That's just air.

• 52:30Speaker 01

  Yeah. I was, I watched, I watched to wind down obsession, that horror film.

• 52:37Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, no.

• 52:38Speaker 01

  I had the worst nightmares last night.

• 52:40Fearne Cotton?

  Why did you watch that before bed?

• 52:41Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 52:42Fearne Cotton?

  I can only watch utter shit before bed. So Below Deck is my flavor of choice.

• 52:48Speaker 01

  Noted. No, that's probably.

• 52:50Fearne Cotton?

  It's heavenly. If you need to wind down, like, all thoughts dissipate. And you're in a lovely country somewhere. Usually they're, you know, they're cruising around Croatia at the moment, if you must know. And, oh, it's just, there's, you know, romances going on and arguments and awful people who come on to charter the boats. Awful, the worst people ever.

• 53:10Speaker 01

  Right.

• 53:10Fearne Cotton?

  It's the best TV. If you wanna wind down.

• 53:14Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 53:14Fearne Cotton?

  I prescribe you Below Deck.

• 53:16Speaker 01

  Not obsession.

• 53:17Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 53:18Speaker 01

  I had the worst nightmares. Awful.

• 53:21Fearne Cotton?

  Horrible, horrible. I can't watch shit like that.

• 53:23Speaker 01

  No, it was very good, though.

• 53:25Fearne Cotton?

  Light popcorn meal and Below Deck is what you need to do. That's what you need to do. And when you go out for dinner, do you do all three courses?

• 53:34Speaker 01

  Oh, God, no. I mean, well, I mean, it's, I mean, on my podcast, if that's what they want us to try, that's what we will try. But, um, you know, I also tend to not be able to eat everything.

• 53:45Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 53:45Speaker 01

  And we have video as well. So sometimes, you know, and we edit around eating. So sometimes it looks like we're just not ever eating.

• 53:53Speaker 01

  Which is hilarious. People are like, are they eating the meal? I guarantee you are. And, uh, but yeah, if I'm with, by myself, I try and eat, you know, I can just do a little bit.

• 54:02Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, three courses always feels, especially with a breadbasket. It's overwhelming.

• 54:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:06Fearne Cotton?

  I know if I go for dinner with my mom, she is obsessed with dessert. So she's always gonna go, no one have a starter. No one's allowed a starter. I'm like, okay, we won't have a starter. Cause she wants main and then she wants a pudding. And that's, that's how it is. We know how she rolls now.

• 54:22Speaker 01

  I know. Do you, are tasting menus a big thing here?

• 54:25Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, that I cannot, I've not got the time for.

• 54:27Speaker 01

  When you're there for like three hours.

• 54:28Fearne Cotton?

  No, I've done it once and it was like midnight and I'm still, why am I eating at midnight?

• 54:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, they go on and on and on. Justin and I have done a few, is a couple, you know? And it's like, it always seems like a good idea, like a nice romantic thing to do. And you're just, you run out of things to talk about.

• 54:44Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. You end up talking about the kids and you're like, this is pointless. Why are we talking about the kids?

• 54:47Speaker 01

  And you're, you're like, how many more of these little dishes are you gonna bring out? And like, they start to get sweet and you're like, I think we're near the end. And then like a steak comes out afterwards. Like, no.

• 54:56Fearne Cotton?

  The sweet savory side.

• 54:57Speaker 01

  I know, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 54:58Fearne Cotton?

  Um, before we end things, we ask all of our guests two questions. One of them relates to a Happy Place playlist that we're making. So it's really great music that makes you feel happy and joyful. What would you put on that playlist?

• 55:09Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh. Oh.

• 55:14Speaker 01

  What would I put on that playlist? Okay, what am I enjoying right now? Okay, I, I really love Ray, Where the Hell is My Husband? Or is it called, or is it called Where's My Husband?

• 55:22Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, it's the best.

• 55:24Speaker 01

  It's great.

• 55:24Fearne Cotton?

  Her voice.

• 55:25Speaker 01

  She's great. I gotta see her at the Greek Theatre in Los Angeles. I'm obsessed with her.

• 55:30Fearne Cotton?

  And do you know what? The thing about Ray is.

• 55:32Speaker 01

  Or Click Clack Symphony is also great.

• 55:34Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, that's great. Ray has really worked it. She's been around over here for years.

• 55:39Speaker 01

  I know.

• 55:40Fearne Cotton?

  Years and years. And she just kind of kept growing momentum. And then she had her moment and it was so, it still is so deserved. She was the best.

• 55:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I love her.

• 55:49Fearne Cotton?

  And Jesse, to finish, where is your happy place?

• 55:53Speaker 01

  Ooh, my happy place. I think it's on stage. It is. I love the theatre. I love being, I'll, I'll admit that. I, I love the theatre. I, sometimes it's being in the audience and sometimes it's being on the stage. But I love being in that, that shared space. That is just for those people in that moment. Hopefully everyone's cell phones are off. We're just enjoying this thing that's happening. That is only gonna happen in that room at that time. And then it's gone. And I, I really find so much peace and love and comfort in being in the theatre. Yeah.

• 56:32Fearne Cotton?

  Well, I can't wait to come and see your play.

• 56:33Speaker 01

  I can't wait for you to see it.

• 56:34Fearne Cotton?

  I'm so excited. I, it's so up my street. I am there.

• 56:38Speaker 01

  Yay.

• 56:38Fearne Cotton?

  Jesse, thank you so much and good luck with the rest of the run of your show.

• 56:42Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 56:43Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, I love Jesse. I want to be his best friend. I, I really, really do. Um, and I'm gonna go and watch the play and I'm so excited. And also, may I add, that Jesse is the best sport because I asked him to do the most ludicrous video for Instagram, which you might need to go and see, um, which he said yes to. And it involves me, I mean, basically I watched this video back and I was mortified because I sort of climb up his body like a sloth. That's all I'm saying. It's, uh, you need to see it to believe it. But thank you, Jesse, for not only being so lovely and friendly and gorgeous in that chat, but also a jolly good sport.

• 57:27Fearne Cotton?

  You can see Jesse performing as Truman Capote in True until the fourteenth of November, twenty twenty six, at the Menier Chocolate Factory in London. A huge thank you again to Jesse and to you gorgeous lot for listening. Thank you.

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