Pod Insights DISGRACELAND Bonus Episode: Country Music Artists as Dangerous and True Crimey As They Come About this episode They were slick, clean cut, conservative compared to the punks, rockers, and metalheads, but they were perhaps more dangerous, more transgressive, more wild, and they sang about infidelity, loss, loneliness, and murder from an incredibly authentic point of view. In many cases, they lived it. I’m talking about hardcore country artists in this bonus episode plus your voicemails, texts, dms, emails and more.
See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:01 Speaker 00 This is exactly right.
0:13 Speaker 01 Cash Flow Crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.
0:45 Speaker 02 Your team is on a deadline, but moving all your enterprise data will take time your business simply doesn't have. IBM Technology lets AI work with your data where it already lives. With an open hybrid cloud approach designed to build on your existing investments. It's another way IBM helps you put your data to work. Let's create smarter business. IBM. Visit ibm.com to learn more.
1:14 Jake Brennan? I like a story with a twist as much as anyone, but some of the best traditions don't have one. They just started and kept going. That's something that's great about Chateau St. Michelle. They've been leading Washington wine since 1967 with wines that are balanced, expressive, and easy to enjoy. Choosing the right bottle shouldn't feel complicated. It should be something you open with confidence every time. So for once, here's a story with no twist, just a good bottle. Redefine your rituals with Chateau St. Michelle.
1:46 Jake Brennan? Hey, Discos. Need a little more DisgraceLand in your life? Just a touch to get you through? Yeah, me too. This is the podcast that comes after the podcast. Welcome to DisgraceLand: The After Party.
2:13 Jake Brennan? Welcome to the Disgrace Land bonus episode, a little thing we like to call the after-party. This is the show after the show, the party after the party, the bridge to get you from one full episode of Disgrace Land to the other, the backyard to dig into the dirt, our mission to uncover the truth, to confront the myth, to reclaim the story. On this bonus episode, that time George Jones met Porter Wagoner in the bathroom in murder graveyard in some amazing album cover Easter eggs, plus your voicemails, texts, emails, comments, DMs, and as always, a whole lot of Rosie. This is the podcast for the musically obsessed, the outsiders, the independent thinkers who know that the best history is the history that gets buried. Disgrace Land is where I tell the stories I didn't want told, the kind you'll end up telling someone else. All right, discos, let's get into it.
3:08 Jake Brennan? All right, welcome into the after-party, everybody. I was in Boston this past weekend. It was a fantastic time to be there. World Cup was in town, Gillette out in Foxborough, but the city was just filled with people who were there for that event and it was just beautiful weather. People are outside rolling around. Everybody was in a good mood. It was great. Had an awesome time, ran into some old friends on the street, took my son to some great music shops, music stores, record stores, and I visited one of the last great record stores in the city, maybe in the world, actually, this past weekend when I was there in Boston, Looney Tunes on Harvard Ave in Alston, Massachusetts.
3:49 Jake Brennan? Looney Tunes used to be on Mass Ave between Harvard and Central Squares. Anyways, this type of record store, it's dark dingy affair. You know, you might sprain your ankle on your descent down the stairs into this place. And once you're inside, you're going to find yourself completely overwhelmed by records, like they're just everywhere, everywhere. That's all there is. I don't know, there might have been CDs. There were some, Pat, the guy who owns it, he had some instruments in the back that he, you know, kind of fiddles with while he's, while he's there at the store. I don't know if there were cassettes, but they're just records everywhere, everywhere and super knowledgeable owner, obviously.
4:33 Jake Brennan? And with knowledge on all kinds of music from all types of genres. And there's, like I said, just again, music in records, vinyl, just it's, it's like it's eating you when you walk into this place. And Pat, the owner, has knowledge that most of us don't have when it comes to music. So it's a very great, very cool experience, especially for my son. Now, when I was there, I couldn't decide even where to look. Never mind what I wanted to buy, if I wanted to buy anything at all. I couldn't decide between a Porter Wagoner album, 1968's Carroll County Accident, and a very cool looking Misfits reissue seven inch.
5:17 Jake Brennan? It's like a record store day thing that I'd never seen before. I went with the Porter Wagoner album because Porter is on my mind a bunch lately. He's one of the more fascinating characters from country music history. Blonde, tall dude, blonde pompadour, just a striking image. He wore these like rhinestone nudie suits. Tremendous singer, massive star. One of those celebrities whose stardom and fame has eroded over, over time. And we just don't understand how, how big and, and popular and famous this guy was. And that happens to a number of, of celebrities over time.
5:59 Jake Brennan? Anyways, Porter Wagoner is the villain in the Dolly Parton story.
6:06 Jake Brennan? The story that we just put together for you guys, it's coming out soon, in a couple of weeks. Porter introduced Dolly Parton to the world on his TV show back in the 1960s. And you're gonna hear again, again, you're gonna hear all about that in the Dolly Parton episode that we got coming your way. But Porter Wagoner shows up in the George Jones story as well. Not in our episode with George that we just released this week, but in the bathroom with George back in the early 1970s at the Ryman Auditorium in Nashville during a live televised broadcast of the Grand Ole Opry. Now Porter was in the restroom relieving himself between televised segments. George Jones followed him into the restroom, snuck up behind Porter.
6:48 Jake Brennan? George came up behind, again, this just dashing, tall, blonde, rhinestone clad Porter Wagoner. And George Jones is drunk, high on diet pills. And he comes up behind Porter Wagoner, who again is standing at the urinal. And George very aggressively grabs Porter by his junk squeezes and twists. Porter howls in pain and George Jones howls right back with those golden pipes. And he shouts, I want to see what Tammy's so proud of. George Jones was referring to his wife, Tammy Wynette, and to the affair that he believed
7:33 Jake Brennan? that Tammy Wynette was having with Porter Wagoner. Porter Wagoner was rumored to be very well endowed. There was a lot of stories about Porter Wagoner in Nashville when it came to women. But there was no affair. According to the research I've done, I don't know, maybe there was, who knows? But it looks like there actually was no affair here. It was just George's jealousy getting the best of him. But there was Porter Wagoner now covered, his nudie suit, covered his pants anyways, covered in urine. He's going to go on television in a couple of minutes here. So he misses the next segment and Ernest Hubb has to sit in for him. I'm not sure how George Jones spent the rest of his night. This is a story that was, that George tells in his book.
8:19 Jake Brennan? He's talked about it in interviews in the past. I can't believe some of these interviews with, with George Jones. They're, they're completely unhinged. They would never happen today. These interviews that he did later in life in the 1990s, they would never happen today. And they're just, they're just out there. Now, if you look at George Jones, again, the subject of our episode this week, that story I just told you about Porter Wagoner and George Jones is not in our episode. That's what I wanted to give it to you here. But if you look at George Jones, he's a very clean cut looking dude, even in the later years. I mean, his hair is a little bit longer by country standards for sure, but it's still this sort of like hard shell pompadour. And back in the early days, when he was more of a rockabilly guy for a brief minute there,
9:03 Jake Brennan? it was like a, wasn't even a pompadour. It's like a crew cut, like a high and tight crew cut. When you look at the image, you know, you listen to George Jones's pristine voice, you look at the images of him, there's little in common with that, that image, between the image and the behavior, the crazed behavior. It's the same for most country artists. Most appear to be clean-cut, conservative, at least by rock and roll and punk rock and heavy metal standards, the rock and roll and punk and heavy metal standards of my youth, anyway. But beneath the clean-cut image, country artists were, as we now know, as wild and transgressive as the punks, the metalheads and the rock and rollers. And I have to admit,
9:45 Jake Brennan? and I have to admit, this is what attracted me to country music in the, in, when I was a kid, not a kid, when I was, I don't know, 19, 20, 21, in the, I can't remember when I first took a real interest in country music, but it was early adulthood. And it was because of this reason. It was because learning that Hank Williams, the guy who sang My Bucket's Got a Hole in It, the song that I'd heard as a kid that I thought was beyond dumb, that dude was a raving lunatic, hold on, who he was committed to an asylum before drinking himself to death in the backseat of a Cadillac. You know, I learned that. I learned that Johnny Cash, the old-looking dude who hung out with Willie Nelson, the other old-looking dude,
10:31 Jake Brennan? that Johnny Cash got blitzed on pills one day and set fire to a national park and it was an accident that wiped out nearly an entire population of an endangered species. It was the stories about country music. It was the stories that got me, not the music. It was the stories that first interested me, the story that about the Spade Cooley murder, Stringbean, Merle Haggard in prison, Shotgun Willie Nelson, Farron Young, Graham Parsons, Steve Earle. It made the music that much more interesting to me. There was contrast, tension between the image of these artists and their behavior. You know, how could dudes who sounded so straight live so dangerous, so crooked?
11:12 Jake Brennan? And, you know, I was on to country music, classic country music, I should say, at a fairly early age, to the great annoyance of my hardcore bandmates and friends, but I didn't care. And soon, it wasn't just about the artists making the music and their crimes. It was about the crimes inside the stories that these artists were telling in the songs that they were singing. The murder of the Knoxville girl, the hanging from the long black veil, the redheaded stranger, the night the lights went out in Georgia, Johnny Cash and his cocaine blues, George Jones still doing time, and the fatal crash affair and cover-up at the center of Porter Wagoner's Carroll County accident. A great fucking song,
11:57 Jake Brennan? by the way. This song is this, it's a true crime podcast series in and of itself, the Carroll County accident. Which leads me to the here and now, okay? Up to this weekend, where, you know, I'm purchasing that Porter Wagoner album in Looney Tunes in Boston. It's all crime in music. It's always been crime in music. Crime in music is the most interesting combination. And you probably get more of it in country music than you do in punk, in rock, or in metal. And from an extremely authentic point of view as well, when George Jones wrote about stabbing and killing a friend in Life to Go, it's believable when you hear it. When Porter Wagoner sings about the affair
12:39 Jake Brennan? in the Carroll County accident, or in any number of songs on his excellent album Cold Hard Facts of Life, you believe him because Porter Wagoner kind of looks like a dude who knows a thing or two about an affair or two. That violence, that infidelity, it's spilled out into real life in the bathroom in the Ryman Auditorium back in the early 70s there with these two guys. And it's one of the many stories, just like it from country music's wild history. And it's a history that we've barely scratched the surface of here in disgraceland incredibly. And we've got episodes on Johnny Paycheck and Johnny Cash, Willie Nelson and Merle Haggard, and now George Jones, but there's so much more to tell. Anyways, check out the George Jones episode. Brace yourselves
13:22 Jake Brennan? for the Dolly Parton episode that's coming. It's gonna be a doozy. All right, Dolly Parton isn't coming up for a couple of weeks. In the meantime, you've got George Jones in your feed, like I said. Then in the rewind slot, coming up right after this here after-party, is our episode on Jennifer Hudson and Jennifer Hudson's story, the tragedy there, the triple homicide that in and of itself could have been a country song. Just brutal, brutal. Anyways, that's gonna be in your feed right after this after-party. And then next week, our brand spanking new episode on Sonic Youth, on Kim in Thurston, on one of the coolest bands of all time, and on the true crime at the center
14:05 Jake Brennan? of one of the coolest album covers of all time, Sonic Youth's "Goo." That's right, you know the cover. It's the one with that illustration of the couple with the woman smoking, the Raymond Pettibone illustration, the two, the pair, they look like a couple of kids who could be hanging out with Velvet Underground or something. And who was that couple in the illustration? That's what I wanted to know on that album cover on "Goo." And what was up with that incredible quote next to their image? "I stole my sister's boyfriend. It was all whirlwind, heat and flash. Within a week, we killed my parents and hit the road." What the hell was that all about?
14:47 Jake Brennan? Well, it's about one of the most gruesome and unjust true crimes in history, and one that features a real rock and roll hero. We're gonna tell you that story in the story of Sonic Youth and try to really drill down into what made Kim Gordon so damn cool. You'll get that, like I said, next week. And when you're listening to this episode, which is, like I said, very much about the cover of "Goo," be thinking about, what's the coolest album cover that you've ever seen? Does it get cooler than "Goo"? Okay? What album just held you transfixed? What album just captured your imagination, arrested you? Just you're sitting there, you're,
15:30 Jake Brennan? I don't know, you're 15 years old, 16 years old, you're in your bedroom, you know, you're just, you've got your stereo there. It's one of those solid-state one-pieces with the record player and the CD player and the double cassette player and the receiver all in one. It's like a small little black box, connects right to the speakers. And you've got this album in your hand and you just can't stop looking at it. You can't stop listening to it. All right. What is that album? What's the coolest album cover that you can think of? Let us know. All right. That's going to be the question of the week next week. 617-906-6638. Give me a call. Let me know your answer. You can leave me a voicemail. You can send me a text again at 617-906-6638. You might hear your answer on next week's after party.
16:14 Jake Brennan? Before that, though, in this episode, we're going to get you all primed up for the Sonic Youth Goose story that we've got coming your way next week. Seth and I are going to be talking about hidden Easter eggs on album covers. Beastie Boys, Grateful Dead, Iron Maiden, Harry Nilsson and more. That's coming up in the exclusive section of this after party. Go to disgracelandpod.com, sign up to become a Disgraceland All-Access member and unlock exclusive content like this, plus ad-free listening. All right, we're going to take a quick break and we'll get back in just a moment with your voicemails, texts, emails and more.
16:54 Speaker 04 Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat with flexible draws, transparent pricing and control over repayment. Get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.
17:24 Jake Brennan? I like a story with a twist as much as anyone, but some of the best traditions don't have one. They just started and kept going. That's something that's great about Chateau St. Michelle. They've been leading Washington wine since 1967 with wines that are balanced, expressive and easy to enjoy. Choosing the right bottle shouldn't feel complicated. It should be something you open with confidence every time. So for once, here's a story with no twist, just a good bottle. Redefine your rituals with Chateau St. Michelle.
17:56 Speaker 05 Hello, hello. I'm Malcolm Gladwell, host of Smart Talks with IBM. Imagine your business depends on a system you didn't build and don't fully control. For years, it works perfectly. It's fast, reliable, affordable. So over time, more and more of your operations rely on it. Then one day, the terms change. What once felt flexible now feels difficult to leave. Moving to another provider or bringing those capabilities back under your own control could take years, cost millions, and disrupt the business in the process. That's the challenge of digital sovereignty. Businesses today rely on all sorts of third-party systems: cloud platforms, data pipelines,
18:40 Speaker 05 AI models, software tools. Most days, these systems operate quietly in the background. But when something changes, like costs go up or rules shift, organizations are forced to confront how much control and flexibility they actually have. So to understand the challenge up close, I traveled to Paris to speak with IBM's Annapola Assis and Acts as CIO, Giovanni Daniele, two people who think about these questions every day.
19:12 Speaker 05 Hear the full conversation at ibm.com/smarttalks or wherever you get your podcasts.
19:28 Jake Brennan? All right, guys. I am back. It's super early. You can probably tell from the sound of my voice. This coffee ain't doing what it's supposed to be doing, man. I don't know what's up. You ever go to make a coffee in the morning? You put the beans in, get it all ready to grind. You drink your coffee. You drink your second coffee, your third coffee.
19:51 Jake Brennan? Fourth coffee, suddenly it's lunchtime and you're starving and you eat and then, you know, it's 1 o'clock, 2 o'clock, whatever it is after that, and you're just exhausted. And you have a blazing headache and you're like, what the hell is going on? And you realize you haven't had any caffeine that day, even though you've had like three cups of coffee, but you are an idiot if you're like me and you went and you ground up decaf coffee beans and even you can decaf all morning and now you're exhausted and you got a headache and you're in a bad mood. Can't tell you how many times I've done that. Not the sharpest tool in the shed sometimes. It's early morning, you're fumbling about trying to get it going.
20:32 Jake Brennan? Anyways, I got the high test stuff this morning, but I'm just, I had some intense quick travel, quick turnaround to Boston and back this weekend, a little dragon. Coffee will do its thing though. I'm confident. Anyways, I'm in the phone booth. It's the one across the hall hanging on the telephone with you guys. You know where I'm at. Last week's question of the week, we're talking about which singer just arrested you, just stops you in your tracks, just grabs you by the neck and makes you listen. The sound of their voice is just so compelling. George Jones does that to me. This one from, I hope I'm saying this correctly, Beto. And where are you, Beto? You're in the 213.
21:14 Speaker 06 Hey Jake, this is Beto from LA responding to your question about what singer stopped me in my tracks. I have to say, Aretha Franklin, Donny Hathaway, and internationally, Lucid Fátima Ali Khan, Mito Nascimento, and Salif Keta. That's what's up.
21:35 Jake Brennan? That is what's up. Thank you, Beto. I was, I'm going to talk about Donny Hathaway here in particular because.
21:43 Jake Brennan? It most directly addresses the part of this question that I can't quite articulate the right way, which is just that thing, you know, you know, when you hear it, you're just arrested. I said that before you just hear the voice and it just stops you. It literally happened to me with Donny Hathaway. The other day I was getting my haircut. I was in the barber's chair and you know, Juan at El Sid, he's, he's doing his thing and we're talking and, and it's just Donny Hathaway singing Jealous Guy. And it was just one of those things. I just, I just had to be like, hold up, listen to that. God, this guy can sing. Just fucking incredible. It was the live version from 72, Donny Hathaway's
22:28 Jake Brennan? live album. And I got to admit, for a guy whose voice I find to be completely compelling, I do not listen to Donny Hathaway enough. I just forget, I just forget. So Beto, I'm going to take your voicemail as a reminder. Thank you, buddy. I'm going to, I'm going to be pumping out the, the Donny Hathaway today. All right, let's check out the 360.
22:52 Speaker 07 Hey Jake, wow, this podcast is amazing. I have learned so many things in the last week. I'm calling to answer your question of the week. Quote that one person with the voice that just takes you there. And for me, it's gotta be Nico Case, 100%. I feel the void every time she really lets loose. And I actually wanted to answer an old question. Who is not punk, but is punk? And for me, that is the band, The Knife. If you haven't, highly recommend. Just, just give her a listen. It's pretty cool. Okay, thanks. Love you.
23:31 Jake Brennan? Oh, wow. Okay. 360. Yes. Nico Case. 1,000%. Deep red bells. Fantastic. Just everything's kind of fantastic. And speaking of murder ballads and the whole kind of like creepy country thing, she's a great modern version of that. Not, not a psychopath like George Jones, though. And someone I have a ton of respect for. Great artist. And yes, great singer. Who'd you mention? The Knife? It's funny. You mentioned The Knife. I was just thinking of The Knife. I heard some song on some dumb TV show. And I was like, this song sucks, but it reminds me of something good. What is it that it's reminding me of? And it was Heartbeats by, by The Knife.
24:15 Jake Brennan? Are we talking about the same artists here? I think we are. I think we are. Anyways, I appreciate you 360. Thanks for calling. Call back anytime 617-906-6638. You guys want to hit me up? That's how to do it. Voicemail and text. Let's do some texts here. Let's go to the 317 here. Hey, this is Flo from the 317. You said your son's a huge Killers fan. Seeing as we spent adequate time discussing great covers. And as I mentioned, I'm a massive Morrissey fan. Here you go. Can't have the Killers without Morrissey. And Flo sends in the Killers version of Why Don't You Find Out For Yourself? The Morrissey song. You know, I don't think about this song that much.
25:00 Jake Brennan? And it's, I don't think about the correlation between the Killers and Morrissey. And I should. It's an obvious one. And it just doesn't, I don't know, it doesn't register for me. You know, I was talking to the Killers the other day with my wife, talking, I said, talking to the Killers, talking about the Killers with my wife the other day. And the Killers are interesting because their first album, in our opinion, is their best. Not that their other albums aren't really good. They are, second one in particular. But which artists legit, like their first, not, not albums where they come out and their first album's great. And then they just kind of fade away. That happens a lot, but they come out, their first album is just the best. It's the best. You can't fuck with it. It's the, it's like, kind of like the Strokes.
25:42 Jake Brennan? Like they never really, they made great albums afterward, for sure. They're still making great music, but that first album is the best album. And this isn't a thing where I'm like, oh yeah, have you heard their early shit? That's not what I'm doing here at all. I just legitimately think that when it comes to the Killers and when it comes to the Strokes, that their first albums are the best. And that's a good question. Which other artists, you know, first album was their best? I don't know. Made me think of you guys. I was like, God, that's a question of the week. Hubba from the 314 writes in, hey, end of the world mix, Tall Dark Stranger by Buck Owens. Is that a Harlan Howard song?
26:17 Jake Brennan? 205 Metallica Queensryche, January 14th, 1989 BJCC Arena, Birmingham, Alabama. I was in a mass of people waiting to enter. And for some reason, they were late opening the arena entrances. And the section we were waiting in had walls that funneled people towards the set of doors. And the crowds started getting frustrated and people at the door started chanting angrily. 1234, open up the fucking door. 5678, open up the fucking gate. Couple of employees almost opened the doors. The peoples at the back started pressing forward, crushing us all together against the arena. None of the groans of pain and people yelling did anything to back off.
27:00 Jake Brennan? We were crushed that way for more than 10 minutes before the venue finally opened a few of the doors spaced apart. And I was crushed by the surging crowd into one of the closed doors next to an open one. My buddy was at the edge of the open door. We had to work together to drag my body to the open door. Oh damn, this sounds freaking harrowing and fall into the doorway. Finally escaping the press of the crowd. I hadn't thought about that part of that night for years, but all the pain and sounds came back while hearing the story of those poor Liverpool fans rushing forward. Patrick at the 205. Patrick, thank you for your text. That sounds horrifying. Patrick, guys, is referencing the Hillsborough disaster episode that we did in, because
27:45 Jake Brennan? we're here in World Cup week, World Cup weeks, months? How long is the World Cup? It's like three weeks, right? Something like that? Sounds scary as hell. 302 writes in, hey, very excited to inform you that I just turned on a new listener. As I was walking my dog in the park and wearing my disgraceland t-shirt, a guy came up and commented on it. Turns out he's a rock fan and I was able to recommend your podcast. As he was walking away, he took out his phone to look it up on Spotify. And as I was passing him again, he told me he was starting with the Anthony Bourdain episode. So I just want to say hi there, friend. Friend in Delaware who just got turned on to disgraceland. I hope you're really enjoying it. I am 302. Thank you. I appreciate that. Very cool of you to be extending the sort of disgraceland community here.
28:30 Jake Brennan? Love that. 860 writes in, hey Jake, it's Trip from the 860. I sent a text about a month ago concerning the upcoming Jim Morrison Doors episode, but I had surgery two days before, so I don't know how can.
28:44 Jake Brennan? So I don't know how coherent it was. I commented on Robbie from The Doors, his recent book, and why in my opinion, it was the best Doors book. Robbie separated the myth from the band and from Jim in general in a way that hasn't been done before. He talked about Jim possibly dying from heroin and explains about his own smack addiction in the 1980s. Anyway, looking forward to The Doors episode. Peace from the Northeast. 860, appreciate you, man. Yeah, I don't want to spoil it here, but I will tell you that Robbie's, some of Robbie's information from that book makes it into the episode and makes the argument that I'm making that much more compelling. I'll say that. Okay. 617-906-6638. You guys want
29:26 Jake Brennan? to hit me up, talk about anything, voicemail and text, that's how you do it. You can also email me [email protected] . We're going to do that on the other side of this break. Talk to you in a second.
29:44 Speaker 04 Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.
30:14 Jake Brennan? I like a story with a twist as much as anyone, but some of the best traditions don't have one. They just started and kept going. That's something that's great about Chateau St. Michelle. They've been leading Washington wine since 1967 with wines that are balanced, expressive, and easy to enjoy. Choosing the right bottle shouldn't feel complicated. It should be something you open with confidence every time. So for once, here's a story with no twist, just a good bottle. Redefine your rituals with Chateau St. Michelle.
30:47 Speaker 02 Running a business means keeping pace with the latest tech. You put a lot into building your enterprise software stack and scrapping it to integrate AI is out of the question. That's why IBM Technology works with all the apps, data and models you need. It's another way IBM helps you build on the technology you rely on. Let's create smarter business. IBM. Visit IBM.com to learn more.
31:22 Jake Brennan? All right, guys, we are back. This is [email protected] . I appreciate the thoughtful emails. I appreciate talking to you guys, connecting with you guys every week. This one comes from Rob McDonald, subject Hillsborough message. Hey Jake, just wanted to say congratulations on your episode covering the Hillsborough disaster. It's a difficult subject matter and you handled it with real care, clarity and respect. As a Liverpool fan, I really appreciate the tone and the way you gave space to both the human impact and the wider context. A great song about the wider issue is Billy Bragg's Scousers Never Buy the Sun. Is it Scouser or Scooser? I always pronounce it incorrectly. I apologize. It means it's a Liverpool thing, right?
32:06 Jake Brennan? Yeah. However, happy I made you with the Hillsborough episode, I'm upsetting you now, Rob. I am sure of it and I apologize. Anyways, Rob goes on to say, hey, he released it after the phone hacking scandal investigations into News Corp in 2011, a protest against the broader issues around tabloid media. Thanks again for your thoughtful episode. You got it, Rob. Thank you for the email. Appreciate you. I don't know this Billy Bragg song. Billy Bragg, a lot like what I was saying with Donny Hathaway, someone who I absolutely love and somebody who I just do not listen to enough. I never think to listen to him. I wish I had a little mental note in my head that I could just, you know, I open up the Spotify app or whatever, I go to my.
32:49 Jake Brennan? My shelves to pull a record. I'm like, what do I want to listen to? And you know, we're all the same. We all end up going back to the same shit. I got Billy Bragg albums in my collection, Donny Hathaway, and I just don't listen to them enough. And I need to, and I appreciate the recommendation, Rob. Thank you very much. [email protected] . You guys want to send me an email about anything, recommendations? You want to hear recommendations from me, music recommendations? You can get that in the Hollywoodland feed over in the Rap Party episodes that Zeth does. I'm in there every week, giving you music recommendations alongside Zeth's movie recommendations. See how that works? At Disgracelandpod on the socials. You want to hit me up on Instagram, Facebook,
33:30 Jake Brennan? even X. Once in a while, once in a while, I'll open the X app. I'm making a habit of it, because I like my sanity. Could say the same about all the platforms, though. It's a love-hate relationship. No, it's not love. And I don't like to hate anything, but you know, it's tough. Anyways, in response to our Marilyn Manson episode, E dot showstaid on Disgraceland writes, "Hey, I saw Marilyn Manson out of Dave and Buster's a few years ago." That's why I wanted to read this. "Just the idea of Marilyn Manson out of Dave and Buster's is hysterical to me, and he looked like he was over his own gimmick 25 years ago.
34:14 Jake Brennan? To be in your mid 50s but role-playing 1999 forever, too much even for him." Which brings me to this thing I've been thinking about, how some artists just get, they get stuck in that caricature of themselves that they created years ago. I was watching this Liza Minnelli documentary over the weekend, and it, she talked about it, where she was the sequin girl. She had to be that girl whenever she was out in public, even socially with people who were not just extremely close with her. But even like acquaintances, that's who she had to be. And, you know, I think she transcended that in a lot of ways, but it must suck for people. I don't, well, actually, I don't give a shit about Marilyn Manson, Brian Warner, but you know what I'm saying?
34:58 Jake Brennan? Like, it just must suck as an artist to be stuck in that thing forever. And I think certain artists find ways to transcend it and move beyond it and to grow and to not get stuck. And I don't know, I don't know the trick. I don't know what the trick is. I don't know how they do it. I haven't really thought about it enough, but it's interesting. And I know it's applicable to some of the stories we're telling here. So I'll probably get into this concept a little bit more. More artists spotted out in the public in response to our Jim Sullivan disappearance story that we had on Instagram. Jay underscore Shinobi writes, hey, just seen him yesterday at Walgreens. That's interesting, man. I go to Walgreens all the time. I've never seen missing folk artists roaming the aisles, but I'll take your word for it.
35:42 Jake Brennan? Mark Bernworth sent us a message on Instagram about Tommy James, about how he's an underrated singer, how the Shondells were an underrated band. And, you know, Mark is not wrong about either of those things. And if you want to hear exactly what I'm talking about, plus the mafia connection to Tommy James, which is the Tommy James mob story might be the greatest mob story in music history. And that is saying something because it has nothing to do with Frank Sinatra. It has nothing to do with a bunch of the other sort of cliche mob music industry stories that you've heard. It's its own thing. The fact that this is not a Martin Scorsese movie is, it's shocking to me, actually. It's incredible.
36:26 Jake Brennan? And I love the episode that we put together on Tommy James. It's one of my favorites. Check that out. Melissa Gay Hayden writes in, hey, Jake, I've been wanting to share this with you for some time, and I have no excuse because no one is busier than you. That's not true. Anyway, this profile belongs to Andy Spear. And Melissa sends this Instagram profile on Andrew Spear. She says, I didn't know him well, but we did graduate high school together. And as you can see, Andy is an extremely talented artist specializing in murals, but he's also a music head and has done work for several hard rock locations. And I gotta say, Andy's stuff is pretty great. Check out Spear Life, Andrew Spear, via Melissa Gay Hayden on Instagram. You won't be disappointed. Benjamin Nelson writes in,
37:11 Jake Brennan? "Hey, big fan of the show. Have you ever considered doing an episode on Fishbone? There's some crazy shit going on, cults, kidnappings, and the like. Stay cool." That's Ben Nelson 72 on Instagram. "I have considered a Fishbone episode. I've seen Fishbone a couple of times back in the day. I love Truth and Soul, that album. It's incredible. And I really regret not buying the vinyl version of it when I was... What record store was that? I was in the West Village about three years ago. And it wasn't even that expensive. It was maybe, I don't know, it wasn't cheap, but it wasn't that expensive. I just didn't want to carry it back on the plane. And I regret it. I should have done it. I should have done
37:52 Jake Brennan? it." Yeah, we're gonna do an episode on Fishbone at some point. Too crazy of a story not to. @disgracelandpod on the socials, you guys want to hit us up. [email protected] on the email machine, 617-906-6638. Voicemail and text. You want my recommendations on music and the like, you can get those in the Hollywoodland feed where I'm talking to Zeth and the Rap Party bonus episodes every week. You can also get our classic archive stories from Hollywood in true crime. You get to subscribe to Hollywoodland on Apple Podcasts, the iHeartRadio app, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you want even more music content, you can cop the video podcasts that Zeth and I produce every month called This
38:36 Jake Brennan? Film Should Be Played Loud, our new episode on Dazed and Confused. That's what we've got for you in June. Go to disgracelandpod.com to sign up so you can watch that. And you can also check out our episodes on The Royal Tenenbaums, Goodfellas. I'm reading right now, Wise Guy, by the way, Nicholas Pileggi's book that inspired Goodfellas, or that Goodfellas is based on, I should say. And it's pretty incredible. It's pretty incredible. I was like, I've seen Goodfellas so many damn times, there's no reason I should read this book. But you know what? Doesn't matter how many times you've seen Goodfellas, you should read this book. It gives you context that you're just, it's like every book compared to the movie, you're gonna get this context that is completely just so much deeper and
39:20 Jake Brennan? richer. And it's gonna make you appreciate this movie even more than you probably already did. I've actually already read a book about the making of Goodfellas. I just never read the book that Goodfellas was based on. And I gotta say, I'm enjoying the shit out of it. But for more movie talk, music and movie talk, I should say, go to check out This Film Should Be Played Loud with Zeth and I. Go to disgracelandpod.com to become an All Access member. You're gonna get content like that. Plus, you're gonna get ad-free content. Plus, you're gonna get the conversation that Zeth and I have coming up right now in the exclusive section of this after-party bonus episode where we're discussing some of the crazier, more interesting Easter eggs from album art, from music histories past. That's coming up right now. Go to disgracelandpod.com to sign up if you haven't already.
40:16 Jake Brennan? All right, we are back. Let's recap. We mentioned Donny Hathaway in this episode. Yeah, there you go. Also Tommy James. Two great episodes from the Disgrace Land Archive. A bunch of other artists as well, but Matt's gonna pull the information on those two stories. And he'll put that info in the show notes section of this after-party so that you can easily find your way to either the Tommy James episode or the Donny Hathaway episode of Disgrace Land in our massive archive. All right, let's recap, shall we? This week, number one, number one, this week, George Jones, available in your feed. Rewind episode coming up right after this after-party. We've got our episode on Jennifer Hudson. Then next week, our episode, our brand new episode, I should say, on Sonic Youth. Number four, Zeth is gonna give you
40:58 Jake Brennan? those Hollywood and crime vibes in the Hollywoodland feed. So make sure that you are subscribed to Hollywoodland wherever you get your podcasts. You're gonna get my music recommendations over in the wrap party in the Hollywoodland feed as well. Number five, This Film Should Be Played Loud, our video podcast, our newest one on Dazed and Confused. That is- Is, uh, I don't know. Is that available right now? I think it is. Is it? No, it's not. It's coming up end of the month, end of June. 617-906-6638. Your voice keeps us digging into the dark corners of music history. So keep calling, keep texting with your answers to this week's question of the week, or to whatever else you want to talk about. Number seven, don't forget discos. This isn't just content, it's a community, a community of the obsessed. And no one cares about music books, records and the crime and grime that ties them all together like you do. And well, that's a disgrace. All right.
41:44 Jake Brennan? George Jones died on April 26, 2013. And that night I drove into my driveway in Arlington, Massachusetts. My headlights shown on, you got it, a possum. Right there in my driveway, I shit you not. The same night George Jones died. April 26, 2013. This is what America was listening to on that day, according to the Billboard charts. Number one, just give me a reason. Pink featuring Nate Russe. Last week, three. Peak position, one. Weeks on chart, nine. Number two, Thrift Shop, Macklemore and Ryan Lewis featuring Wayans. Last week, two. Peak position, one. Weeks on chart, 28.
42:28 Jake Brennan? Number three, When I Was Your Man, Bruno Mars. Last week, one. Peak position, one. Weeks on chart, 17. Number four, Stay, Rihanna featuring Miki Echo. Last week, four. Peak position, three. Weeks on chart, 10. Number five, I'm a savage.
43:00 Jake Brennan? Quit talking and start mixing. Cut it. Hey guys, time to dust off your detective skills while unwinding in the Caribbean on Virgin Voyages' second true crime voyages. Back by popular demand, this five night, adults only escape set sail March 20, 2027 to Grand Turk in the Beach Club at Bimini. The difference between this year and last will be that I will be on the cruise this year. Along with Zeth and he and I will be taping a live version of Disgrace Land along with podcast hosts from Exactly Right's Buried Bones, Podcast of the Year Award winners Wisecrack and other fan favorites. Get on this cruise with us, guys, and enjoy live podcast recordings, behind the
43:42 Jake Brennan? scenes storytelling, exclusive meet and greets, and immersive true crime programming throughout this one of a kind voyage. Head over to www.virginvoyages.com/truecrime to secure your spot. I like a story with a twist as much as anyone, but some of the best traditions don't have one. They just started and kept going. That's something that's great about Chateau St. Michelle. They've been leading Washington wine since 1967 with wines that are balanced, expressive, and easy to enjoy. Choosing the right bottle shouldn't feel complicated. It should be something you open with confidence every time. So for once, here's a story with no twist, just a good bottle. Redefine your rituals with Chateau St. Michelle.
44:26 Speaker 05 Building with AI should feel simpler, not harder to navigate. The challenge is finding the right resources to move from exploring AI to building with it. The Microsoft AI Innovators Hub brings together code samples, guided labs, and practical guidance to help you move from exploring AI to building with it. Learn by building at the AI Innovators Hub. Visit aka.ms/ai-innovators. That's aka.ms/ai-innovators.
Previous Bonus Episode: Soccer Hooligans, Rockstars, Britpop Battles and War Next Sonic Youth: The Murders Behind One of the Coolest Album Covers of All Time Page updated October 30, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated