‘Life of M’ by Rachel Cusk, With Gregg Rosenthal

Gregg Rosenthal, Anthony’s best friend and former JRVP cohost, joins the show to discuss Rachel Cusk’s ‘Life of M’ and recommend a few books for Anthony’s reading list. They also catch up on Gregg’s family, Anthony puts Gregg through the JBC Gauntlet, and the guys dive into a Reddit horror story about a man who joined an all-woman book club. (00:00) Introduction: Jeselnik Book Club Past, Present, Future(01:16) Chapter 1: Gregg’s Family(07:00) Chapter 2: ‘Life of M’ by Rachel Cusk(30:26) Chapter 3: Jeselnik Book Club Gauntlet(44:14) Chapter 4: One Additional Question(46:20) Chapter 5: Book Club Horror Stories(53:18) Acknowledgments: Gregg’s Gift and Listener Requests(1:03:30) To Be Continued: Patton Oswalt Joins the Show Next WeekEmail me at [email protected] by October 26 with your thoughts and questions about our next book club selection, ‘The Trees’ by Percival Everett. Join Jeselnik Book Club: https://anthonyjeselnik.com/the-jeselnik-book-clubTour dates: https://anthonyjeselnik.com/tour Host: Anthony JeselnikSupervising Producer: Magdalena MunaoTalent Booker: Paige GarbariniCreative Producer: Daniel ComerTechnical Director: Chris WohlersSet Design: Jonathan Ratliff and Gitu MehraEditor: Matt PevicSocial: Keith FujimotoAdditional Production Supervision: Jack Wilson Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Anthony Jeselnik?

  Hey, everybody. Welcome to Jessel Nick Book Club. I'm here at The Ringer. This is the first episode, but not the first episode. The first episode will air on September 30th. We're taping this beforehand. This is a pre-taped episode. This is happening after Dolly Parton's death, but before Tim Curry's death. So we're kind of in the past, but also in the future. You know, if this was coming out like this week, if we were taping this to be aired tomorrow, this would be wall-to-wall Sydney Sweeney talk because of my guest today. You know, and I'm sure he's as upset as I am about the Sydney Sweeney thing.

• 0:47Anthony Jeselnik?

  His daughter has been watching this on a loop for the past week. And I know in my America, in my guest's America, we don't mix sex and advertising. You don't do it.

• 1:14Anthony Jeselnik?

  I'm gonna do the introduction right now. We're going like a, we're gonna do it like a book. Introduction, chapter one, chapter two, all the way to the end. You get it. It's cute. Almost too cute. Almost as cute as our guest. This week, we started off with my best friend in the world, Greg Rosenthal. Triple G, the great Greg Rosenthal of the NFL Daily Podcast.

• 1:43Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:43Anthony Jeselnik?

  You are the lone employee of the NFL Network at this point.

• 1:47Speaker 01

  That's not true. There's a few of us left.

• 1:49Anthony Jeselnik?

  How many? How many?

• 1:50Speaker 01

  Like on camera, we're up to six or seven.

• 1:53Anthony Jeselnik?

  Okay. How many behind the camera? How many total?

• 1:56Speaker 01

  Probably like 50 or 60.

• 1:58Anthony Jeselnik?

  Okay. And how do you guys all feel about your future prospects?

• 2:01Speaker 01

  Football's great. Football's good business. You always were promising me like, oh, we'll just, we'll just do a podcast together someday and that'll be your, you know, income. Now, look, you, you did do a podcast, but without me.

• 2:14Anthony Jeselnik?

  I did. I mean, but I get to have you here. I get to both, both worlds. I get to have Greg Rosenthal, my best friend in front of me, and I get to keep all the money. You know, that's what's nice about this. But you, I mean, again, for people who don't know, if you've been living under a fucking rock for the last five years and don't know about the Jessel Nick and Rosenthal Vanity Project.

• 2:39Anthony Jeselnik?

  We lost, we lost, we lost our old producers. We moved on up. How much nicer is this set than the old one?

• 2:45Speaker 01

  This is amazing. I feel bad trashing All Things Comedy, but the first thing I thought when I came up here, I was like, oh, Anthony leveled up.

• 2:53Anthony Jeselnik?

  I couldn't believe it when I came in here. It felt like some sort of prank. But we had a podcast for a long time and we always talked about books. Greg and I had a podcast for many years, too many years, as far as I'm concerned, probably about at least six months too long. I lost my mind at the end. I'm better now and I'm here at The Ringer.

• 3:11Speaker 01

  You made that clear. I felt like you were hitting out blaming the podcast for just the general misery of your tour at the time. And we took it out because of that.

• 3:21Anthony Jeselnik?

  I was also, I was also 30 pounds lighter than I am right now. Like, I was not good physically. I was not good mentally, and I think the podcast did not help that. That's why I got the book club going, where I get to just not talk to you. I mean, I'm happy to talk to you now, but I probably won't talk to you again on this set for a while. I've got great guests. We, I've been told we've got Cormac McCarthy booked on the show. David Foster Wallace is coming on the show. We've got great, great guests coming up, but you and I have been friends since our, you want to say, I mean, freshman year has been generous. Sophomore year, definitely. Best friends since we were 19 years old?

• 4:05Speaker 01

  We lived together a long time between sophomore year of college and a few years after college in like five different houses with a variety of different roommates who couldn't stand to live with us after they lived with us for one year. So everyone just lasted one year. Until then, it was just us.

• 4:20Anthony Jeselnik?

  And then when it was finally just us in LA, how long did you last?

• 4:23Speaker 01

  Couple of years.

• 4:24Anthony Jeselnik?

  Actually, I was gonna say one year, like I was the problem, but I guess we made it a couple of years before I convinced you to become a sports writer and now a sports personality. Like, do you think you'd be where you are right now if you hadn't lived with me after college?

• 4:40Speaker 01

  No, it's all because of Anthony.

• 4:42Anthony Jeselnik?

  Thank you. Thank you. And now I am, you know, are you excited to be on my book club show?

• 4:48Speaker 01

  I am. I mean, I'm, I am curious what you do with a podcast that you can't blame on everyone else.

• 4:55Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yeah, it will be, it will be odd, but I've, there are so many people here. All Things Comedy had like three employees. This place has so many employees. I could blame a new one every day and be fine with it. But I'm glad you were, you're gonna be a guest. This is, we're gonna, we're figuring things out here on this podcast. We don't really know. You've never written a book. You will write a book one day, but it's gonna be about football and I'm not reading that. Like, how many episodes of The NFL Daily do you think I've seen?

• 5:23Speaker 01

  Zero.

• 5:24Anthony Jeselnik?

  Zero. How many have I been on?

• 5:25Speaker 01

  One, I think.

• 5:26Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yes. And did I watch that one? No, I did not.

• 5:29Speaker 01

  Why didn't you use someone else, though, then as your, as your guinea pig, like early in the podcasting, like Cormac McCarthy or something?

• 5:36Anthony Jeselnik?

  We tried. He's not returning calls. But I thought Greg, again, not only are you my best friend and you are famous, like at a certain level. You know, there are people who watch The NFL Daily on the regular. How many episodes a week do you do?

• 5:50Speaker 01

  It's quite a low level. It's, it's about as low a level as you can get. We do, it's daily. We do like six or seven a week during the season.

• 5:58Anthony Jeselnik?

  How many podcasts are there about the NFL?

• 6:00Speaker 01

  A million.

• 6:01Anthony Jeselnik?

  A million. How many get to use NFL in the title?

• 6:05Speaker 01

  I mean, legally, only one.

• 6:07Anthony Jeselnik?

  Exactly. Exactly. That's where you are. So I'm very proud to be friends with you. I'm proud of your success and we are both also big readers. When I thought of like, who of my friends are big readers, I thought Greg Rosenthal. Who's gonna get up? And again, thank you again for doing this during the NFL season. This is being taped right after week two. You are busy. You have a heart out. We're doing this in the morning. So I appreciate you making the time to be my guinea pig, even though in a way, for the last 25 years, you've always been my guinea pig.

• 6:43Speaker 01

  I mean, you also only have like two or three other friends. And at any various point, you're not spotting students of them.

• 6:49Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yeah. And we do not count Ms. Kim as a friend. I mean, she like, technically, yes, but I pay her.

• 6:57Anthony Jeselnik?

  Now, let's get to chapter one.

• 7:04Anthony Jeselnik?

  Isn't that cool? Like, we're, we're gonna do, like, we're gonna do, we're gonna go wide shot and then we're gonna have like chapter one. It's gonna be like, I keep telling people like a David Fincher film and they look at me like, he doesn't do that. So I don't know what I'm talking about. Chapter one. How's the fam? How's the family?

• 7:22Speaker 01

  This is what you think your, your listeners are interested in? Oh, you're interested in it. They're great. They're great.

• 7:27Anthony Jeselnik?

  I don't care what my fans are interested in. If I cared what my fans were interested in, I would not have started a book club. I'm forcing my will on the people, but I want to know how the family is. Your daughter, I think it's amazing. She has written, how many novels has your daughter written?

• 7:45Speaker 01

  Like two.

• 7:46Anthony Jeselnik?

  Two, like two. That is insane that she's plotted out and written novels and not just like, oh, she's writing in like the, in her bedroom. Where it's like, they're legit novels.

• 7:57Speaker 01

  I mean, that is literally where she writes. Where else would she write?

• 8:00Anthony Jeselnik?

  Sure, but it's not, little kids will be like, I wrote a novel. And it's just some like BS. Like, she plots it out. She's into, what would you describe the genre?

• 8:07Speaker 01

  Fantasy.

• 8:08Anthony Jeselnik?

  Fantasy? Is it like young adult fantasy?

• 8:10Speaker 01

  Young adult fantasy.

• 8:11Anthony Jeselnik?

  You've got, she let you read one, right? Or she read both?

• 8:15Speaker 01

  One and parts of others.

• 8:16Anthony Jeselnik?

  One and parts of others. I just think it's amazing. Like, I, who have like been a lifelong reader, wanted to be a writer growing up, never finished a novel and she just like bangs away. Like, that's her thing. I think it's like phenomenal.

• 8:31Speaker 01

  Like, you've talked a lot about writing a novel, about writing books. I thought about it. You, you know that like a book agent was, was talking to me, to us about, you know, writing. And it wasn't even just gonna be sports or whatever, but seeing her grow up, I'm like, oh, this is what a writer actually looks like. If you were a writer, Anthony, you'd just be writing all day. And you do, but for stand-up. Like, you'd be writing actual, I was like, this is what a writer looks like. They just do it. They, they shut up about it and they have to do it. Like, they have no choice.

• 9:02Anthony Jeselnik?

  But even now, now that like my hour is done and I'm out touring and I'm not writing every day, I'm working on other things. I'm writing that foreword right now for Chingang All Stars. So I'm working on things. I'm flexing that muscle. Yeah, your daughter is like, has office hours. When she goes to school, she, she's a straight A student, I assume.

• 9:21Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 9:22Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yeah, very close to it, but comes home and bangs out.

• 9:25Speaker 01

  Not even close to it, just 100%.

• 9:27Anthony Jeselnik?

  Really?

• 9:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:28Anthony Jeselnik?

  I believe, and like, so where do you think she gets it from? Like, does she see, because not only are you a big reader, but your wife is a big reader. Cause I'm, I'm a huge reader. My people are like, were your parents big readers? And I'm like, no. No, my dad now enjoys his Kindle. I think he likes spy thrillers and stuff like that and lawyer books. But nothing that I would ever lower myself to read.

• 9:51Speaker 01

  I was gonna say, people don't know, though, your parents are idiots.

• 9:53Anthony Jeselnik?

  My, my parents are above-average intelligence. I will fight you on that one. But I think this is revenge for bringing up your family immediately and crossing boundaries, even though we're best friends.

• 10:06Speaker 01

  I agree. My wife's a huge reader. I am like, we're all different types of readers. Like, Emeka makes fun of me for the books I read. She generally hates the recommendations that I give her. She thinks we're too intellectual with the choices that we made. She wants something a little more, more fun, more readable.

• 10:25Anthony Jeselnik?

  But your wife will read books in Japanese now, and then you'll read the English translation, right?

• 10:32Speaker 01

  Of the same books, yeah.

• 10:33Anthony Jeselnik?

  Sisters in Yellow, yeah, like, do you guys fight over books? I'm surprised that she makes fun of you. It seems like you have similar tastes.

• 10:39Speaker 01

  We do in some ways, and then I'll, if she wants to read it, I always let her read it first. You know, that's the move.

• 10:45Anthony Jeselnik?

  I mean, I'll remember-

• 10:46Speaker 01

  Generally, she doesn't want my book.

• 10:47Anthony Jeselnik?

  I'll remind you of a time that I took you and your wife out for your wife's birthday, and you said, "I want to get her a present." And we walked down the street to Book Soup, and you bought her the latest in the Elena Ferrante series that neither of you had read yet. And it was clear to everyone that this was a happy birthday, Emeka, from Greg to Greg.

• 11:09Speaker 01

  That's probably true. Do you remember that that's where you got those books from, was from my wife?

• 11:15Anthony Jeselnik?

  A hundred percent. You guys recommended those books to me, and I tore through all seven? Were there seven of them?

• 11:20Speaker 01

  Four.

• 11:21Anthony Jeselnik?

  Four. Okay. I, close, half, I think, a little over half. You got me into not only Elena Ferrante and reading those series. I haven't read any of her other books, but you also got me into Rachel Cusk. You made me a cusk head. Between the two of us, who's the bigger cusk head?

• 11:37Speaker 01

  You are.

• 11:38Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yes.

• 11:38Speaker 01

  I mean, you just look like it. You kind of look like her. You look like you'd be a cusk head.

• 11:43Anthony Jeselnik?

  I mean, I take that, I take all those things as a compliment. If someone was like, "Hey, are you Rachel Cusk?" and tapped me on the shoulder, I'd be pumped for like days. I would be like, "Hey, are you, are you in my senior year gym class?" I would take it as an equal compliment. So you're saying that your daughter, again, huge reader, huge writer, your wife reads a ton, and thinks that you read the more feminine books? Or, because I think you read some pretty feminine books, like-

• 12:11Speaker 01

  What does that mean?

• 12:12Anthony Jeselnik?

  It means that most of them are about lesbian romance.

• 12:14Speaker 01

  That's not true.

• 12:15Anthony Jeselnik?

  The vast majority are lesbian romance. Again, we both read a lot of female authors. We're not reading like, I'm, if, if one of us is recommending a book about someone getting shot at any point in the book, it's me recommending it to you.

• 12:27Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 12:28Anthony Jeselnik?

  You're going the other way. But I love you, you recommended Lazar. Am I pronouncing that correctly?

• 12:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, Lazlo.

• 12:35Anthony Jeselnik?

  Lazlo?

• 12:35Speaker 01

  Lazar was his first name, the, I mean, was the name of the book. And his name was Lazlo something.

• 12:42Anthony Jeselnik?

  Dude, that's confusing. If you're a writer, if you're, if you're a writer and you're watching this podcast, and your name, it sounds like the title of the book, change that title, or change your name. But Lazar was a great recommendation for me this year. What have I recommended to you this year?

• 12:57Speaker 01

  It's supposedly the most read book in Germany for the last 25 years, and it's completely bizarre.

• 13:04Anthony Jeselnik?

  I believe it. It was, I don't think it was completely bizarre. It was cool. We might have that guy on at some point, so I don't want to get too much into it. But Germans are like the best podcast guests that you can get. It's like Germans and then like Sophie Rain. If you can get, if you can get one of those two, you're gonna have a hit.

• 13:24Speaker 01

  You've recommended a lot of my favorite books. I'm, I follow the Jesselneck Book Club, you know, religiously.

• 13:32Anthony Jeselnik?

  Jesselneck Book Club.

• 13:33Speaker 01

  I know. I'm just saying, I read all those books. You, you beat me to a lot of the books I would have read anyways, and then you try to claim them.

• 13:39Anthony Jeselnik?

  It is a joy of mine to find out that you're excited about an upcoming book, and then reading it before you, and then just throwing it in your face. I don't spoil it, but I let you know who the big dog is.

• 13:51Anthony Jeselnik?

  My other thing about your family before we go, I just love that you went on a vacation with your family, and that your father was looking for a beach read. And you told him that Anthony really liked the novel Skippy Dies by Paul Murray?

• 14:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:04Anthony Jeselnik?

  I believe it's, is it, am I right about Paul Murray?

• 14:06Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 14:07Anthony Jeselnik?

  Am I getting that right? Which is a, like, not a beach read. It is, it's a serious book that like is hardcore, and your dad read it, sitting on the beach with his family, and loved it. I thought was hilarious. If I recommended Skippy Dies to my dad, like, I don't think he'd ever talk to me again. But I love that your family is, is big readers.

• 14:26Speaker 01

  Paul Murray's maybe one of my favorites. I mean, Skippy Dies is not as much of a downer as the title would indicate. I mean, Skippy.

• 14:35Anthony Jeselnik?

  It's a downer.

• 14:36Speaker 01

  He definitely dies. But it's like high school, some high jinks. There's fun.

• 14:40Anthony Jeselnik?

  There's like some Animal House, but yeah, I mean, I will not get into the crimes that are committed in the book, because it would be a spoiler, but you gotta read Skippy Dies, or The Bee Sting. Are two of like the best books I've read in the past decade.

• 14:52Speaker 01

  I would agree. If I was thinking of like the number one Anthony recommendation that you've given me, that I would not have read otherwise, that you pushed hard, that was like my favorite book, those would be the two.

• 15:05Anthony Jeselnik?

  Okay. What's the worst recommendation I've given you?

• 15:08Speaker 01

  I'll go Jesselneck Book Club. Savages wasn't really for me, you know?

• 15:12Anthony Jeselnik?

  Savages on a reread was like, I remember the first time I read it, I was like, wow, I really flew through this thing. I, but Savages was a, I don't think it was a miss, because I wanted a beach read for the Jesselneck Book Club. I'm trying to get people into this thing. I don't, I don't regret recommending it.

• 15:27Speaker 01

  He was doing like wordplay on like his ejaculation, like as jokes, like five pages in, I was like, but it wasn't clever. And I was like, oh, this might be-

• 15:38Anthony Jeselnik?

  I don't know. I think we could disagree that it was very, very clever. Anything else you want to tell me about your family? Anything else you want to give up to the viewing public?

• 15:46Speaker 01

  No, just that you're, you're an important part of it, but like, slightly less important maybe than a little while ago, you know? Not as much, you know, in-person time with the godkids. I don't know why I'm giving you crap.

• 15:58Anthony Jeselnik?

  I try to get in-person time, but also they like have grown to hate me in the way that teenagers hate adults.

• 16:04Speaker 01

  Nobody hates you. They don't hate you.

• 16:05Anthony Jeselnik?

  Your daughter, your daughter, if I was hanging on the edge of a cliff, would not save my life.

• 16:11Speaker 01

  She would try. I mean, she's, you're a big guy.

• 16:13Anthony Jeselnik?

  She's, I, listen, I love you, I love her to pieces. She's a teenage girl. We got along great, and then one day she rolled her eyes at me, and she never stopped rolling her eyes. And that's a teenage girl thing to do. I'm cool with it. One day she will admit, Anthony, you're a great artist and a cool human being, and I'm proud to call you my godfather. And maybe that day will come when she needs money, but that's okay.

• 16:35Speaker 01

  I am looking forward to the day where I can show you them in the audience at one of your shows.

• 16:40Anthony Jeselnik?

  I cannot wait. I think your son would love my show.

• 16:43Speaker 01

  I think so.

• 16:44Anthony Jeselnik?

  But you, I've been told that you're just worried that he would start imitating me and get kicked out of school immediately. And now it's time for Chapter Two.

• 16:58Anthony Jeselnik?

  We can hold as long as we want. They can edit. I was thinking about having the lights go down and be real dramatic, but we're gonna get that Fincher Chapter Two up there, and everyone's gonna be excited. Chapter Two, we're gonna talk about a book that we've both read, Life of M by Rachel Cusk. I've already said, you got me into Rachel Cusk with the Outland Trilogy, which I flew through, one of my favorite pieces of literature. I consider, I consider all three a whole. And I've gotten into more of, almost her story about her, she's trying to eliminate character from novels. She got bored with the concept of novels and wants to break them apart from within. I don't give a shit about any of that.

• 17:39Anthony Jeselnik?

  Like, I just like reading the book, and some books I find more entertaining than others. And Life of M came out a few weeks ago now, maybe a month ago. It got a lot of heat coming up because it was about Natalie Portman. The words "character assassination" were thrown around. What did you think of Life of M by Rachel Cusk?

• 18:01Speaker 01

  I liked it. I didn't love it. I was surprised it got killed. You sent me the New Yorker review of it, where they just destroy it. I kind of think any book that makes this many people this mad, including Natalie Portman, apparently, like, has to be doing something right. We don't have a lot of public literary betrayals. I feel like that's something that happened like before we were born, so I'm, I'm into that part of it. But it also, you know, wasn't as good as the Outland Trilogy.

• 18:32Anthony Jeselnik?

  No, I mean, nothing's as good as the Outland Trilogy. It's hard to compare anything to that. I didn't expect it to be. I know, I'll be honest. I read, I read, I didn't read any reviews before I read the book. I was excited. I read the New York Times review afterwards. And then I read that New Yorker review that I sent to you. I didn't understand a fucking word of that. Like, I could just tell that the author didn't seem to like Rachel Cusk, admired her, but didn't really like her. The reviews I've seen about the book are like, it's not like a great novel, but it's fun, a fun read.

• 19:03Speaker 01

  It's interesting.

• 19:04Anthony Jeselnik?

  And I'll take a fun read. It's like, I'd rather be lucky than be good. But I just, I loved it. I read the whole thing with like a smile on my face. Just really enjoyed the audacity of clearly taking a person, like, I know Rachel Cusk has said, "It's not based on anyone." That's a lie. That's a flat-out lie. There are details that make it Natalie Portman, and then there are things in there that are embarrassing. One of my favorites, without giving too many spoilers, it's like there is a-

• 19:33Speaker 01

  You can't spoil this book, I don't think.

• 19:35Anthony Jeselnik?

  No. Yeah, I mean, a lot of it doesn't make sense. Like, there's, she's talking the "I" as in like the author. There is "M" as in Natalie Portman, and there's a "they" at certain points that you're like, is this the two of them? Who the fuck is this? And that's just Rachel Cusk eliminating character as a construct in the novel. There are parts of the novel that I don't understand what's going on. I like read it for the Natalie Portman slander. And some of it's just like, she's been so famous so long, people treat her so differently, and she's just trying to be a human being. Like, I don't think it's that bad for Natalie Portman.

• 20:10Speaker 01

  No.

• 20:11Anthony Jeselnik?

  I think, I think that "character assassination" is a strong term. I think any celebrity who is exposed in any way, and shown to have any kind of weakness or vanity, is going to be frowned upon. I would be surprised if Natalie Portman is actually upset, or if she likes being a part of this art experiment. Because I don't think there's anything like really bad that you would take away from it. I do like the part where she's at dinner with a bunch of people. She always arrives last. And then her security makes her switch places with like another actress who's famous, but not as famous as her.

• 20:48Speaker 01

  Right.

• 20:48Anthony Jeselnik?

  Because her seat is dangerous, and Natalie Portman needs that seat. That I thought that was funny. That I just enjoyed all of that. And almost like the gossipy subtext of it, I thought was fun.

• 21:00Speaker 01

  I mean, if anything, I want it to be more vicious and more gossipy, and that's why- I thought it's 100% Natalie Portman.

• 21:08Anthony Jeselnik?

  100%.

• 21:09Speaker 01

  And, but she doesn't go quite the whole way, because at the end of the book Natalie Portman is like, "Don't use my name." I believe all of that. I think the beginning of the book and the end of the book are the best parts, when it's just Rachel Cusk and Natalie Portman. And in the middle of it, there's this segment where she kind of gives herself away, where she has this other doppelganger of a friend of Natalie Portman, who wants to write a screenplay about Natalie Portman, where it shows her to be kind of this, like, empty character, which is basically why Natalie Portman would not like this book. It kind of makes her look like she doesn't really know who she is. She's been famous for so long, she doesn't know how to be real, and that her whole project in life is to just be normal,

• 21:52Speaker 01

  which would not feel great to read about if you're Natalie Portman.

• 21:55Anthony Jeselnik?

  No, but I think that that's not just like a celebrity experience, but a human experience of like, what do I do all day? If you're a rich person, how do you spend your time? Like, she's like, "I'm gonna walk the dog like a normal person would. I'm not gonna live behind a gate. I'm just gonna have a house on the street." But you also like, live in Paris, and everywhere you go, people treat you differently. I thought the thing about the friend is trying to get her in the screenplay, is almost a cliched thing, like, that is a plot of that fucking George Clooney movie that came out last year, where he's basically playing himself, where like, a guy's like, "Be in my screenplay, it'll make the movie, and you've gotta turn them down." That I don't think it was that bad. I think it was like, making Natalie Portman vulnerable. But I don't think it was attacking her. I can see why she would not like it.

• 22:40Anthony Jeselnik?

  But I think if it had gone even further, and actually like, destroyed her, tore her down, that it wouldn't have been as pleasant to read.

• 22:49Speaker 01

  I don't mean destroy her, but there were a couple of segments in the book where she like, loosely alludes to what's happening with Rachel Cusk's family, and loosely alludes to like, some controversial things that are happening in the press, or maybe with her ex-husband or kid. Like, Natalie Portman has a kid. All of that is to the side, as if she like, wanted to be, she being Rachel Cusk, more sensitive, because when I mentioned that screenwriter part, I thought that gave it away, because she was like, if Natalie Portman does not agree to be part of this movie, like, it just doesn't work. Kind of like this book, in some way, when Portman, you know, didn't agree to fully be part of it, it took a little bit of the teeth out of it. And yet, I liked it a lot.

• 23:33Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yeah, I think if Natalie Portman agrees fully to be a part of it, it doesn't work. Like, I think it makes it worse. It's better that she was like, "No, fuck you." Also, I think Rachel Cusk, as much as I admire her, and will read everything she writes, sounds like a fucking nightmare. Sounds like an absolute nightmare. This was like, a combination of both worlds. I mean, do you think your opinion is colored by the fact that you've always had a crush on Natalie Portman?

• 24:00Speaker 01

  I mean, who doesn't love Natalie Portman?

• 24:01Anthony Jeselnik?

  Not as much as you.

• 24:02Speaker 01

  I don't, but you're just making this up.

• 24:05Anthony Jeselnik?

  I'm gonna rank, I'm gonna rank these, okay? I'm gonna rank, three people rank them. Natalie Portman.

• 24:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:11Anthony Jeselnik?

  Jennifer Connelly.

• 24:15Anthony Jeselnik?

  Your wife.

• 24:16Speaker 01

  We gotta put Emeka first. I'm putting Portman last, you know?

• 24:19Anthony Jeselnik?

  Portman's after Connelly. I feel like I remember you having a like, giant crush on Natalie Portman. What's your favorite Natalie Portman movie? What do you think she looks the hottest in, and you can't say the professional?

• 24:32Speaker 01

  I do like how they dove into that.

• 24:37Speaker 01

  I don't know. What does she look the best in? I mean, at our age, it was Garden State, but then you go back and think about it, and no movie's aged worse. Maybe I would come back.

• 24:47Anthony Jeselnik?

  We saw that in the theater, and it, yeah.

• 24:49Speaker 01

  At the time, I loved it.

• 24:50Anthony Jeselnik?

  Real bad. Can't listen to the shins anymore. If I see a girl wearing one of those weird helmets for seizures, I can't even, I can't even get attracted to them at all. But you had a huge, I remember, you made me go see Star Wars.

• 25:03Speaker 01

  I don't even remember this.

• 25:04Anthony Jeselnik?

  You made me go see Star Wars a million times.

• 25:05Speaker 01

  I've never seen Star Wars.

• 25:07Anthony Jeselnik?

  Because of Natalie Portman. So would you recommend Life of Em? I recommend it to everyone. It's like a fun blast of a read. I don't think, I don't know if it's good, but it was so much fun to read, and like, the gossip of it keeps you going, trying to figure out, how mad is Natalie Portman? That I love that.

• 25:24Speaker 01

  I think she got close to maybe what it is like to be a celebrity, and to be Natalie Portman. And even though she kind of says, "I'm just making everything up," and I know some of the scenes, she clearly was just making up, I think she probably hit on what it is like to be so isolated, to kind of have a frictionless life. She talks about that in Outline, like, the biggest goal of modern life is essentially like, if you have enough money, to basically have no friction in your life. And that's sort of what she describes Natalie Portman as, is basically like, she almost has no problems, and then it's a hard place to go, as a human.

• 26:05Speaker 01

  Did you identify a lot with Natalie Portman, or Rachel Cusk?

• 26:11Anthony Jeselnik?

  A little bit. I mean, there's like, being like, a comedian with a level of fame, and then there's like, being a beautiful woman with like, endless, with like, Star Wars money, you know, living in Paris. Like, that sounds like the more effortless life. But there were some aspects of it that I kind of recognized. I don't know if people would like, open up a restaurant for me, you know, if I came by, but there was a little bit of that in there. I don't know if I appreciate it on like, a different level. I think, I just enjoyed the hell out of the book. And people don't write books like that, that I don't understand. I understand why it's getting criticized. It's there to be criticized. Rachel Cusk is kind of like, a provocateur, and wants this level of engagement.

• 26:54Anthony Jeselnik?

  But I really enjoyed the book, more than her last two books, which I think you have liked more than I have.

• 26:59Speaker 01

  I liked Second Place, which was her first book after the Outline trilogy. The one after that was mystifying to me, Parade. Did not like it. But I am a Cusk head, so are you. It is just funny to me that you think this is a light, fun read for most people. This is exactly the type of book that Emeka's talking about, when she's like, "I would not want to read this book. It would not be fun." Because it's all just kind of in her head, in a way.

• 27:23Anthony Jeselnik?

  If someone is an amazing writer, the way that Cusk is, I will read shit. I'm like, I don't understand what's happening right now. I don't know who they is in this book, but I'm loving it, just because it's like, listening to, you know, great experimental music. Whereas if someone who's not Rachel Cusk writes this, I'm not into it.

• 27:40Speaker 01

  I thought that they, it's just like humanity. It's people. I didn't, I didn't think it was too crazy. She was just talking about like, the average person, like, and that was a bit of what I think she was trying to get at in Outline and this, that like, everyone is kind of going through this, these same experiences, and that's the whole lack of character thing. Myself or Rachel Cusk, and I would start with Outline, because I did go back a little bit. You gave me this. I wanted to do homework, so I went back and read Outline, at least part of it, and I was like, that does have more life to it. Like, that's Cusk, I feel like, in her artistic prime. But there's, there's so many things in Cusk's books, and this book, where it's just like, one-liners that you immediately want to write down.

• 28:23Speaker 01

  Like, it's worth it for just the 20 one-liners that hit you. She has one, I think it's in Outline, it's in one of those books, that I think about every day. That is, people give themselves away so much about what they notice in others. And like, I notice that every day. This whole book is kind of, I feel like, like that.

• 28:45Anthony Jeselnik?

  Sure. I loved it. I would give, I mean, I gave it a 10, just out of sheer enjoyment. I don't think it's a 10. I don't think it's like, the best book, but I enjoyed it, I enjoyed reading it more than most books I've read this year. What did you think of the final line of the book? Which did a lot of heavy lifting for me.

• 29:02Speaker 01

  I was totally confused about the final line of the book. You can spoil it.

• 29:06Anthony Jeselnik?

  I thought it was fun. I'm not gonna spoil it. It's too good. You can go to a bookstore and flip to the back of it, and again, but it's not gonna make sense if you haven't, if you haven't done the work, reading it. But if you think, "Oh, she's letting her off the hook," she is not. I loved it. I don't think it was character assassination. And I would tell Natalie Portman, "Hey, be honored."

• 29:28Speaker 01

  You're great. It was great.

• 29:29Anthony Jeselnik?

  Be honored that your friend threw you under the bus.

• 29:32Speaker 01

  I would not go out of 10, but I would recommend it. What did you think, and I know you want to move on here, about the little segment where she saw someone that looked, Natalie Portman saw someone that looked exactly like Natalie Portman, except she had like, a big ass, or big legs?

• 29:47Anthony Jeselnik?

  She had like, stout legs, yeah. And it was like, that was, and she thinks like, "This is what my life would have been."

• 29:52Speaker 01

  If I had big legs.

• 29:52Anthony Jeselnik?

  I thought that was, that was amazing. That was like, one of those, like, the universe opens up, and like, that's one of the things I remember the most from the book, is just that moment of humanity, of like, being self-aware enough to know that you are where you are because of what you look like, as much as your talent and what you've done. But that was, that was maybe the best part of the book, I think. That was great.

• 30:16Speaker 01

  My note for that was, "Big-ass doppelganger." Remember to bring that up.

• 30:20Anthony Jeselnik?

  That's a good tattoo. That should be our next tattoo. And now it's time for, Chapter 3.

• 30:28Speaker 01

  I like that, and now it's time for has come over from, from JRVP.

• 30:32Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yeah, we got a lot of things coming over from JRVP. At some point emails will become a thing, but this is the first episode. We don't really have that, but what we do have Greg is the Justinic Book Club Gauntlet. I named it that. Uh, Justinic Book Club Ga- uh, Justinic Book Club Gauntlet. We can clean all this up in post. I'll never mispronounce anything on this show as long as I'm here at the Ringer. I'm gonna give you, this is gonna be kind of like agree or disagree on Good Talk. Where I'm gonna give you a statement and you tell me what you think. The end of reading is here.

• 31:13Speaker 01

  I disagree.

• 31:14Anthony Jeselnik?

  That was the title of the Atlantic article. Did you read that Atlantic article?

• 31:17Speaker 01

  I didn't. I, I saw people comment a lot on.

• 31:20Anthony Jeselnik?

  Everyone who's into books read that article and was like doomsayers.

• 31:24Speaker 01

  I just knew it would annoy me. I don't like to make myself mad on, on purpose. It just seems like a preposterous thing to say, and I saw enough analysis of it that I felt like I read it.

• 31:34Anthony Jeselnik?

  You should read the article because it's, it's a great, well-written article. I also agree with you that it's overblown, naysayers. I've seen things where they've talked to people who own bookstores and they're like, actually, like, we're selling more books than ever right now. Uh, bookshop.org has saved the, uh, the bookstore organization. People still love going into bookstores and reading. I think it is becoming more of a, niche is the wrong word, but like a hobby of the elite. It's almost like watching Mad Men. You know, didn't get quite the ratings that, that, that other shows got, but the people who watched it were, were a level up. That, uh, I think Justinic Book Club is gonna do a lot of heavy lifting and bringing reading, reading back.

• 32:17Anthony Jeselnik?

  But I thi- I do think it is overblown that the end of reading is here. I will agree with you, but it's a big topic of conversation.

• 32:23Speaker 01

  There, there's so many books. I mean, go to Barnes and Noble, there's a million books and most of them that sell well, aren't what you would call like overly intellectual.

• 32:33Anthony Jeselnik?

  No.

• 32:33Speaker 01

  For the elites. It's for the people. It's not in the center of pop culture. I mean, there's a reason why you're the first Ringer podcast about books and there's a million of them about movies and TVs. It's not at the center of culture and, uh, Justinic's gonna change that.

• 32:50Anthony Jeselnik?

  What do you, thank you. Uh, what do you think is the biggest threat to reading? So, I mean, I have an answer here. Like, I don't think it's, uh, go ahead and answer.

• 32:58Speaker 01

  His phone.

• 32:59Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yeah, exactly. I think the same, I don't think it's TV or movies. I think it's doom scrolling on your phone when you would rather, when you would be better off holding a book. If you have to go to a chiropractor because your neck's so fucked up from like looking down at your phone, like, pick up a book and have your neck be fucked up from that.

• 33:16Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 33:16Anthony Jeselnik?

  You'll be better off. Libraries are a great resource for meeting homeless people.

• 33:24Speaker 01

  False. Is this true or false? I mean, you could.

• 33:28Anthony Jeselnik?

  You can say answer.

• 33:28Speaker 01

  I've never done it. They're there.

• 33:30Anthony Jeselnik?

  You go to libraries a lot, that's why I asked you this. And every time I go to a library, it's homeless city, but I don't go to the one you go to.

• 33:37Speaker 01

  Central Library, Los Angeles, incredible. The LA County and LA PL Book Systems, incredible. I think they more than anything are responsible for what a big reader Ellis is.

• 33:49Anthony Jeselnik?

  Really?

• 33:49Speaker 01

  Because you could go, they had their own manga room. They still do, you know, we go to it sometimes and she could get 30 books at a time. Sometimes, cause you can only get 30 on one card, we have to use two cards to get like 40 at a time. And shout out to libraries. And they're, they're nice in the LA area. They're nice everywhere.

• 34:06Anthony Jeselnik?

  The Hollywood library smells like piss and every book is about piss. I swear to God.

• 34:11Speaker 01

  It depends, it's a. It depends which one. You're right.

• 34:15Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yes, I agree.

• 34:16Speaker 01

  There's some rough ones.

• 34:18Anthony Jeselnik?

  Uh, next one, dyslexic people are lying.

• 34:23Speaker 01

  I think that's true.

• 34:24Anthony Jeselnik?

  I think it's true. When people say, and I recommend the book, and someone says, I'm dyslexic, they can't look me in the eye when they say it.

• 34:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:31Anthony Jeselnik?

  Don't, you don't be like ashamed or, and they don't wanna do the audiobook either. But I think dyslexic people just don't wanna read.

• 34:38Speaker 01

  Did you see the, the Tom Cruise segment on the Kelsey Brothers podcast where he says he has his screenwriters or directors read the screenplay to him? He doesn't wanna read it?

• 34:49Anthony Jeselnik?

  I did not see that. Do you watch the Kelsey Brothers podcast?

• 34:52Speaker 01

  It popped up on my social, yeah.

• 34:54Anthony Jeselnik?

  You just saw the clip or you watched the whole thing?

• 34:55Speaker 01

  I saw the clip. So then, so he's just, he's blaming, I feel like dyslexia, his dyslexia for not wanting to read the screenplay, but really dyslexic.

• 35:06Anthony Jeselnik?

  Think about how many screenplays that motherfuckers had to read. Like, when's the last time you read a screenplay? We, this used to be our job when we first moved to LA in 2001. 2001, that's when we moved here. We had an internship the year before, so 2099 maybe that we were reading screenplays?

• 35:24Speaker 01

  We read screenplays for a film production company centered around black movies. I was better at, at reading them, given the treatment than you.

• 35:34Anthony Jeselnik?

  Maybe, I mean, you definitely got the job.

• 35:36Speaker 01

  Either way, we were both awkward fits.

• 35:37Anthony Jeselnik?

  Which was answering phones. Uh, but I think we are the reason that company failed. It's bad to damage a book you're reading, like dog earring pages, folding it up, breaking the spine.

• 35:49Speaker 01

  No, it's fine.

• 35:49Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yeah, I think it's fine too. I agree with you on that one. If it, unless, if someone lends you the book and you hand it back and it's all fucked up, I'm like, what's your problem?

• 35:58Speaker 01

  I've started barking up books more, unless it's a gift. You famously gave me a first edition Breakfast of Champions. When we were trying to top each other with nice gifts for some reason at one point in our lives. And so that, that you keep nice.

• 36:12Anthony Jeselnik?

  And do you know, I mean, we, we were topping each other and then we, we went, I think I went too far. The only time my business manager's ever gotten mad at me was buying you the watch you're wearing right now. Uh, and so I, I think we, we put a, we put a pin in that.

• 36:25Speaker 01

  I mean, that was after about a 10-year break of it. At some point, yeah, you were, you were making significantly more money and it just felt silly for me to try to, to.

• 36:34Anthony Jeselnik?

  It is not about money. I like, first edition books are a good, are a great gift. I have friends who give me first edition books. Cause it's just, it's more about finding it than it is about spending the money. You know, that's, uh, it's, it's nice. If you don't understand a word in a book, you should look it up.

• 36:51Speaker 01

  No. I mean, I, I'm not against it, but I never do.

• 36:54Anthony Jeselnik?

  I just, I think you should just keep reading, get lost in the book and you'll figure out the definition based on what's around it. And sometimes I read a word that I have no idea and I'm cool with that.

• 37:04Speaker 01

  In general, if you don't understand something happening in a book, just keep reading. Eventually you will, or you won't and it's fine.

• 37:11Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yeah, you'll forget what it was at all. I never, I never look things up. Occasionally in a Kindle, I might be like, what is that? But almost never, almost never. There are some books that children should not read until they're older.

• 37:25Speaker 01

  I disagree with that.

• 37:26Anthony Jeselnik?

  I disagree too. People think, of course there's some books, but I'm like, no, I read whatever I wanted as a kid and that turned out great.

• 37:34Speaker 01

  There's some they won't really understand or fully get the point of, so it's probably a waste of time. I don't totally get like kids reading Moby Dick and, and some books like that as kids, but maybe it seeps in there, but it's not gonna hurt you.

• 37:47Anthony Jeselnik?

  If Ellis said she wanted to read American Psycho, would you let her?

• 37:51Speaker 01

  I would tell her what it is and she would have no interest.

• 37:54Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yeah.

• 37:55Speaker 01

  But Colleen Hoover, keep her away from my daughter.

• 37:58Anthony Jeselnik?

  Colleen Hoover, get the fuck out. I agree with that, that if like, people wanna protect kids from books, but if they're bored or they don't understand, they're just not gonna care. But as a kid, I loved reading more adult stuff, but it wasn't like I was like getting into John Updike or like fucking, uh, Philip Roth?

• 38:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:17Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yeah.

• 38:17Speaker 01

  I mean, Updike's got some, some like orgies and sex stuff.

• 38:22Anthony Jeselnik?

  I know, and as a kid you could, you couldn't, I, I could never, I still can't get into Updike. Uh, although you like Philip Roth, I've never read Portnoy's Complaint.

• 38:30Speaker 01

  It's one of my least favorite of his.

• 38:32Anthony Jeselnik?

  Really?

• 38:32Speaker 01

  That's my.

• 38:33Anthony Jeselnik?

  I tried once and I was like, I don't care, I'd rather read fucking Nemesis.

• 38:36Speaker 01

  I'm a big Roth guy, ghostwriter.

• 38:37Anthony Jeselnik?

  Uh, the book is always better than the movie.

• 38:41Speaker 01

  No, that's not true.

• 38:42Anthony Jeselnik?

  I don't think it's true either. Name, give me an example.

• 38:43Speaker 01

  Fight Club.

• 38:45Anthony Jeselnik?

  Fight Club, okay.

• 38:46Speaker 01

  Books suck.

• 38:47Anthony Jeselnik?

  The book, I, the book works after you watch the movie. I think if, it like fills in blanks. I even think one of the best, one of the closest they get is No Country For Old Men.

• 38:59Speaker 01

  It's very rare for the movie to get better than the book, but it happens. Off the top of my head, I can't think of more. Just saying, the book is almost always better, but not always. I mean, American Psycho couldn't even make the argument.

• 39:12Anthony Jeselnik?

  I, I would totally make that argument. I would 100%. I think, uh, the book is not always better than the movie. You're good at this so far. Uh, Mark Twain didn't use the N-word enough.

• 39:25Speaker 01

  I don't even know how to answer that. I'm anti-using the N-word with Mark Twain. Yeah.

• 39:30Anthony Jeselnik?

  You think Mark Twain should not have used it at all?

• 39:34Speaker 01

  I mean, at the time, he didn't know what he was doing, but in hindsight.

• 39:39Anthony Jeselnik?

  You think Mark Twain didn't know what words meant?

• 39:42Speaker 01

  He didn't know how offensive, I guess, it was. Maybe he did. He shouldn't have used it.

• 39:48Anthony Jeselnik?

  You think he used it the perfect amount? Or you think he overused it?

• 39:51Speaker 01

  Overused it.

• 39:52Anthony Jeselnik?

  He overused it?

• 39:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:53Anthony Jeselnik?

  What do you think he should have said instead?

• 39:57Speaker 01

  Just, uh, that guy. I'm not saying any... That guy over there, Jim.

• 40:02Anthony Jeselnik?

  Well-played. I mean, this is... I almost wish you didn't have as much media training as you have, because you handled that masterfully.

• 40:10Speaker 01

  Shut up.

• 40:11Anthony Jeselnik?

  We're gonna... I'm not being sarcastic. We're gonna ask that question to everyone,

• 40:17Anthony Jeselnik?

  as long as they are white. Next one. I got two more here. And you're doing very well in this gauntlet. And I think we also align a lot on things, just because we're both smart, well-read guys.

• 40:29Anthony Jeselnik?

  Some books are for girls and some books are for boys.

• 40:33Speaker 01

  Hmm. That's a tough one. I'm gonna disagree.

• 40:40Speaker 01

  Some books lean boys and girls, but there's always gonna be exceptions.

• 40:43Anthony Jeselnik?

  I don't think that every book is either-or, but there are some books that are like... If I saw a guy reading, I'd be like, "What the fuck are you doing?"

• 40:49Speaker 01

  Like what?

• 40:51Anthony Jeselnik?

  Like, those ultra-romance, mystery ones. It's like, there's like, women drinking Cosmos on the cover. Like, I'm not reading that shit. And I can't imagine it's for me. And I don't think there's anything wrong with writing a book just for a female audience. Again, I think guys could probably enjoy Sex and the City. You watched Sex and the City.

• 41:12Speaker 01

  I was not a big Sex and the City guy, but I did watch it.

• 41:15Anthony Jeselnik?

  You watched some. But yeah, there are shows that are for women. I don't think there's anything wrong with the genre. But there are books that are for women. I think you can switch them up. But I think there are some, like, just especially marketing, just straight to the female audience.

• 41:31Speaker 01

  I like a cer... Like, there is a high... One of Emeka's favorite authors is Curtis Sittenfeld, who wrote Prep. Did you ever read Prep? A bunch of other books. Eligible. Like, those would be categorized as women-themed books, but I love them, because they're well-done. If it's well-done, it's well-done.

• 41:49Anthony Jeselnik?

  You like a lot of, like, books that I would think would be for women. You like Little Women.

• 41:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:54Anthony Jeselnik?

  Little Women's a girl's book.

• 41:55Speaker 01

  Little Women's great.

• 41:56Anthony Jeselnik?

  It's a girl's book.

• 41:58Speaker 01

  It's not a girl's book. But Little Women's great.

• 42:00Anthony Jeselnik?

  What's it called?

• 42:02Speaker 01

  You mean, what's it called?

• 42:04Anthony Jeselnik?

  What's it called?

• 42:05Speaker 01

  Girl's book?

• 42:06Anthony Jeselnik?

  It's called Little Women.

• 42:07Speaker 01

  Little Women.

• 42:09Anthony Jeselnik?

  Uh, last one. Kurt Cobain's journals were fun and insightful.

• 42:14Speaker 01

  Haven't read them.

• 42:15Anthony Jeselnik?

  You didn't? You didn't try?

• 42:16Speaker 01

  Didn't.

• 42:16Anthony Jeselnik?

  I bought... I tried to read them, and I felt just like an asshole who would dug up his grave and took his journals. And I don't believe they were actually his journals. I think we all got had. And that was... Just on a Gauntlet. Just on a Book Club Gauntlet. It's our first episode. We're still making mistakes. But I think the Gauntlet was not one of them. And I do like that we agreed on as much as we did. Do you think that's just my influence over you?

• 42:41Speaker 01

  Or vice versa? I mean, where would you be? Maybe you wouldn't be as big a reader without me. I feel like I was cranking through books more in college than you.

• 42:48Anthony Jeselnik?

  I would... In college, for sure. In college, I was doing different things, but I think we pushed each other

• 42:56Speaker 01

  All right.

• 42:56Anthony Jeselnik?

  to... I almost got competitive with reading books.

• 43:00Speaker 01

  You definitely have now. You, like, keep track. I can't, you know, of how much... You read so much, I can't.

• 43:05Anthony Jeselnik?

  No, I think it feeds me as a writer. I mean, you don't write... Do you write as much as you used to? In terms of, like, for the NFL? You used to be writing articles all the time. Now, you're more of a just-on-air personality. You're like the Bill Simmons of the NFL Network, in a way.

• 43:20Speaker 01

  I'd like to be.

• 43:21Anthony Jeselnik?

  But I read all the time, because I feel like I have to feed my brain to write jokes, to... And it also, like, it's meditative. It chills me out. Like, when do you do your reading? Are you like a right-before-bed guy? Because I'm a comedian. I'm reading on airplanes. Like, I've got a lot of free time.

• 43:37Speaker 01

  I love airplanes. I'm more... If I have any free time, like, in an afternoon especially, or a weekend, like, Fridays, I'm generally off. My kids are in school. Then that's when... I'm with you. It's therapy for me. If I had the time to do it, I would read more. Like, it hurts me, all the books I won't be able to read. But I don't get through as many as you.

• 43:57Anthony Jeselnik?

  No. I mean, I'd rather read than be doing... I'm watching movies. I went and saw Resident Evil, and I was like, "I'd rather be reading a book right now." Like, and the first half's a banger. And then the second half, I'd rather be reading a book.

• 44:11Anthony Jeselnik?

  And now, it's time for Chapter Four.

• 44:17Anthony Jeselnik?

  Chapter Four is One Additional Question. That's what we're gonna call on this one. Have you ever bought a book that you were ashamed to be seen reading in public?

• 44:28Speaker 01

  I asked Emeka for help on this one.

• 44:30Anthony Jeselnik?

  Oh, you got this one in advance?

• 44:31Speaker 01

  This one I knew. And she was like, "I don't think you're capable of feeling embarrassed or shame. It's not in you." At least, like, when it relates to that. I think that she knows me well. But the one that came to mind was Knossard. You know him?

• 44:48Anthony Jeselnik?

  Mm-hmm.

• 44:49Speaker 01

  You know, it's got his, like, big Scandinavian face. And when all those books were kind of the rage, there's six of them. I fucking love those books. Like, I think they're very readable. I think, like, they're unlike anything else I read. But it's this big, like, craggy, like, Scandinavian face looking out. And it's like, the titles are "My Struggle", which, you know, taken from a rough one. You know? Different one, like, different titles like that. And it's like 700 pages or whatever, and you're sitting there. And that's kind of like embarrassing in that you're that guy. You know what I mean?

• 45:24Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yeah, it's like hipster Hitler

• 45:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:26Anthony Jeselnik?

  in a way. And it was like... Knossard was like the... If you went to, like, Performative Reading 101,

• 45:31Speaker 01

  Yes, that's what I mean.

• 45:32Anthony Jeselnik?

  they would hand out copies of that.

• 45:34Speaker 01

  But it's actually good.

• 45:35Anthony Jeselnik?

  I believe... I've heard great things. And I'm always like, my best friend talks them up all the time, but I have not read it. Mine, for me, it was The Game by Neil Strauss.

• 45:46Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 45:47Anthony Jeselnik?

  I thought it would be fun to read, to hear that thing, but I was like, "I can't be seen reading this." I think... And it was before Kindle. So I literally put, like, duct tape over the spine, because it looked like a Bible. And then had this... Then I was like, "I'm on airplanes, reading this. I can't... I can't do it." But I think that's the only one I've been embarrassed to be seen reading in public. I don't like... I really enjoy Kindle, because I don't like having a big, thick, like, pretentious book. I've read some books that are like 1,000 pages, and I don't want to sit there on an airplane looking like an asshole. And that was One Additional Question. Well-played, Greg. Good, surprising answer. And now, you're not gonna believe... You know what time it is?

• 46:25Speaker 01

  Time.

• 46:26Anthony Jeselnik?

  It's time for Chapter Five.

• 46:30Anthony Jeselnik?

  I think holding... I hold the pauses longer than we need to. I just think it's fun to, during a podcast. Like, people would listen to JRVP and say they liked it, because we never talked over each other. We never really yelled. You know, it was kind of... You could fall asleep to it. That I want to kind of keep that vibe with just some extra pauses. Chapter Five, this is Book Club Horror Stories. I don't know if you've ever been in a book club, other than the Jesselink Book Club?

• 46:53Speaker 01

  No, it's my first.

• 46:54Anthony Jeselnik?

  It's... I'm sorry, I said "the Jesselink". It's Jesselink Book Club.

• 46:57Speaker 01

  I had a loose one with friends over email. We never actually talked about it, but we just kind of, like, chose a book that four of us would read. It was very loose. That's the closest thing ever. It did not last long.

• 47:09Anthony Jeselnik?

  Okay. I'm gonna read you... This is from Reddit. "I enjoy going to Reddit and typing in 'book club' and seeing different horror stories. And when I read this one, it made me think of you." And that's not an insult. "I'm part of a neighborhood book club that's been meeting for about a year. It's mostly women in their late 20s to early 40s, and I'm the only guy. We rotate every week, and it's been one of the best ways I've met people since moving to the neighborhood. I'm friendly with everyone." For some reason, the fucking monitor, like, as you move it up, like, the text goes away. So slow it down. "I'm friendly with everyone, but I don't really hang out with any of them outside of book club." Recently, like, as it moves... I'm not crazy.

• 47:52Anthony Jeselnik?

  As it moves, like, the text gets smaller, for some reason.

• 47:56Speaker 01

  Need to keep this in.

• 47:57Anthony Jeselnik?

  We're totally keeping it in.

• 47:58Speaker 01

  There's so little... Few things I could do better than you on camera. I think one of them is read a prompter.

• 48:03Anthony Jeselnik?

  Turn around and look at the prompter as he moves it.

• 48:05Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 48:06Anthony Jeselnik?

  "Recently, the group got into dark romance. Not my suggestion. We all vote on the books, but that's where we ended up. And the meetings are pretty normal. We talk about the plot..." Keep watching, because it hasn't happened again yet, since you turned around. "We talk about the plot, character development, whether the male lead is actually redeemable, all the..." It just happened when you turned your head. A few... Move it up fast right now.

• 48:28Speaker 01

  I'm blaming you.

• 48:29Anthony Jeselnik?

  God, you looked down. Go back down.

• 48:31Speaker 01

  Start reading. You're gonna lose it.

• 48:32Anthony Jeselnik?

  Go back down. Move it up. Okay, watch. Watch it. Move it up fast. See, that's what happens. "A few days ago, after one of our meetings, I was putting a folding chair in my car when one of the woman's husbands came outside and asked if he could talk to me. He told me he'd appreciate it if I stopped coming to the book club.

• 48:51Speaker 01

  Whoa.

• 48:52Anthony Jeselnik?

  I asked why, and he said his wife had become way too excited about book clubs since we started reading dark romance. He said it was weird that I was the only guy sitting around discussing these books with a bunch of married women. At first, I actually laughed, because I thought he was joking. He was not joking."

• 49:11Anthony Jeselnik?

  He said he wasn't accusing me of doing anything inappropriate, but the situation made him uncomfortable. And it would solve a lot of problems if I just found another hobby. I told him I wasn't there to flirt with anybody. I like reading. I've been in the club for a year. And everyone, including his wife, voted on the books.

• 49:29Anthony Jeselnik?

  Then I told him that I was worried about his wife being a little too interested in fictional, morally questionable men. That sounded like a conversation he should probably have with his wife. He got annoyed and said I was intentionally missing the point. So eventually I told him, I'm not quitting a book club because you're insecure about fictional men. If it's that big a deal, just join. Now I'm wondering if I handled it badly. I don't want to create tension with people in the neighborhood. But I also don't think it's reasonable for him to ask me to leave a group I've been a part of for a year because the books we're reading make him uncomfortable. At the end, I swear to God, the prompter was weird. It wasn't me. I know how to read. And you kept turning, you would turn your head like it was the fucking WB frog.

• 50:12Speaker 01

  It was fine.

• 50:12Anthony Jeselnik?

  That would only wake up when you turned around. Now.

• 50:15Speaker 01

  I think they're doing a great job back there. I don't know about you.

• 50:18Anthony Jeselnik?

  I'm not blaming Daniel. I'm just saying technology is imperfect. What do you think of the situation? First of all, I'm going to say this right off the bat. I think it's a bad idea to have a neighborhood book club.

• 50:28Speaker 01

  Why?

• 50:29Anthony Jeselnik?

  Because if things go wrong, if there's drama, then it's with your neighbors.

• 50:33Speaker 01

  It does seem to be asking for drama. You're a little bored. You know, you're maybe middle aged, married and whatnot. The guy who wrote this post knows he's in the right, knows that this other guy sucks. How lame do you need to be to feel so insecure about your wife? Like reading dark fantasy around another man that you can't, can't handle it? That, that is, that is the ultimate like telling on yourself.

• 51:00Anthony Jeselnik?

  Absolutely. I agree. I think that, I bet a lot of guys, I think a lot of people in relationships will be insecure if their partner reads more than them. They just think, what am I, what are they getting, what are they missing from life? That they have to retreat into this fictional world, especially if they're getting excited about dark romance. You know, maybe the vampires have bigger dicks. Like, I don't know what goes on in dark romance. We have someone on staff who's very into dark romance.

• 51:27Speaker 01

  Very popular.

• 51:28Anthony Jeselnik?

  Very popular. Have you ever read any?

• 51:31Speaker 01

  I have not, but it's just like.

• 51:32Anthony Jeselnik?

  Has your wife read any?

• 51:33Speaker 01

  No.

• 51:34Anthony Jeselnik?

  Would you, would you let your wife be in a book club without you in the book club?

• 51:38Speaker 01

  What are you talking about?

• 51:39Anthony Jeselnik?

  Because I was thinking you would share a book club together.

• 51:41Speaker 01

  I'm not allowed to let my wife do anything or not. Like, what are you talking about?

• 51:45Anthony Jeselnik?

  Let was the wrong term, but would you, if your wife was like, I want to join a book club. Would you say, I'd like to join it too? You both read equally.

• 51:52Speaker 01

  Very possibly, depending on the types of books they're reading. If they're reading dark romance, then I'd be like, you got that one, you know? Because I'm not that interested.

• 52:01Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yeah, dark romance, I'd be like, I'm out.

• 52:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:04Anthony Jeselnik?

  I'm not going to be in the book club.

• 52:05Speaker 01

  The one problem I have with it is, deep down, the guy who is in the book club and is the only guy in the book club, assuming he's straight, I don't buy that, like he's, you know, not looking for anything there. I mean, it has to at least cross your mind.

• 52:21Anthony Jeselnik?

  It crosses my mind for sure. After this, after this confrontation, you're trying to fuck everyone in the book club. I would try to run through that like a vampire with a penis.

• 52:32Speaker 01

  I think it's just.

• 52:32Anthony Jeselnik?

  Vampires don't really have sex. They move, it's more like a biting and then they get the sexual pleasure from the blood. But I think in this book, maybe that's, maybe that's what happens is they, their penises work. I don't know. But I agree with you that that guy, the guy's in the right. It's ridiculous. But you should definitely try to bone everyone in that book club, just, just to spite that guy.

• 52:54Speaker 01

  It might, that might be tough. I'm just saying, you're in, you're in a room, you're surrounded by people who have similar interests. Like, what are you doing there? You're, you're going to be interested.

• 53:01Anthony Jeselnik?

  You pull them off, they'd be like, I love what you said in the book club. Why don't we talk more about this in my, in the back of my truck? That's what I would do. And then you, and then you bite them on the neck. And that was chapter five of Book Club Horror Stories. And now we're going to go to something called acknowledgements.

• 53:19Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 53:20Anthony Jeselnik?

  No, you stare at me for a second while acknowledgements comes on the screen. And now it's time for acknowledgements.

• 53:30Anthony Jeselnik?

  You gotta look right, right in the eyes.

• 53:36Anthony Jeselnik?

  Acknowledgements, first, I know you got something for me. We want, this is, this is our first ever episode. I want to do a call to the audience. You've got to watch the first episode of me just interviewing guests. We got Greg. We're going to get better guests. We're going to get worse guests. It's like, we're going to get Greg back here the week before the Super Bowl. I guarantee it. But if you have any ideas for what you'd like to see on this show, email us, [email protected]. We're looking for segment ideas. We're looking for additional suggestions. If you have ideas for the gauntlet, things you'd like me to ask on the gauntlet, let me know. Book news, there was a guy, I don't know if you saw this, there was a guy last week who's like,

• 54:20Anthony Jeselnik?

  whoever his publisher was, like wiped his whole slate off there. And then like, people are like, what did he do? Probably something with kids. It wasn't just like we canceled his new book, but it's all gone. Authors using AI or plagiarizing. I always love stories like that. So if you see anything like that, send it to me, even though I have the entirety of Spotify. Every single person at Spotify works for me now and they are looking for book gossip. This will be week to week, whatever you want. Wait, we'll be week to week, get you guys to read, but also enjoy the show. I don't know, Daniel, why you left this on my piece of paper, but I'm reading it and we're leaving it in. What are your thoughts on the rummy painting behind me?

• 55:04Anthony Jeselnik?

  We got this, that was a gift from a JRVP listener. And it was, I ended up framing it and putting it in a place of prominence in my home. And we had them go to the artist and copy that. We've got Elizabeth Wurtzel behind you, R.I.P. Let us know what you think of the set. I'm excited about it. You'll notice little Easter eggs in the background. There's a whole bunch of shit that they just like threw up here and we're going to be fixing. But let us know. We, this is, Jeselnik Book Club is a public service. We want to hear from you. We want suggestions on what we can do to improve and what we can do to maintain this. So that after 253 episodes, I don't explode and rage quit in the middle of it.

• 55:48Anthony Jeselnik?

  I would like to keep doing this for a long time and get people to read as many books as Greg and I read. Again, I'm a comedian. I can read books whenever. Greg has two kids and a wife and a career. And he's, he reads almost as much as I do. I would say maybe half as much, but you get in like big projects. I read probably more books, but I don't read, I'm not reading No Nose Guard. I'm not reading No My Struggle Volume Five.

• 56:14Speaker 01

  Canos Guard.

• 56:16Anthony Jeselnik?

  I call him Nose Guard, uh, because I care more about football than you. And if you see any like book club horror stories on Reddit, where you've got a book club horror story of your own, let us know at [email protected]. Greg, do you have, you have any recommendations for me?

• 56:32Speaker 01

  I have a gift. I do have a recommendation, but first I have a gift for you. You know, I think it'd be nice when you have guests that they bring something. We could put it in the back. I believe you, you have the gift next to you. I just thought it would look cool as part of your set. They, you know, it could have been like a knickknack, but we, we had to go book. And it's My Brilliant Friend by Ferrante, all in one beautiful little copy. And as we mentioned earlier, I, I did remember how Emeka introduced you to those books. So I, I wanted it to be, you know, a safe podcast for men to read about female friendship.

• 57:10Anthony Jeselnik?

  This is, uh, this is a perfect gift. I, first of all, I did not know that this existed.

• 57:16Speaker 01

  It looks cool.

• 57:17Anthony Jeselnik?

  A one book for volume. My Brilliant Friend, I'm not going to lie, I got into it in order to like get closer to your wife. In like a very friendly way, but I was like, she really loves this. Let me read it so I can talk to her about something.

• 57:31Speaker 01

  Am I the guy in the book club now?

• 57:35Anthony Jeselnik?

  I, but I, I take this as a gift from both you and Emeka. I think it's beautiful. It's also beautiful.

• 57:40Speaker 01

  It is very nice and it solves a problem. Because you asked about the embarrassing book to read before. Elena Ferrante's books, I feel like have turned off more men, even though they're very hardcore. They're about female friendship, but they're also about like a very down and dirty Naples back in the day. And it's a hardcore, like savage, like emotionally everything kind of book. But the covers of them looked like My Little House on the Prairie or whatever from like the 1950s. It was always an embarrassing cover and now that solves that.

• 58:11Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yeah, I think this is, this is a great gift, an unexpected gift. I didn't know what you were going to bring, but that's going on the bookshelf for sure. My favorite line from all four Elena Ferrantes, when she goes to a wedding, where, talking about like the hardcore Sicily of it all, where they're like rebels. And everyone at the wedding, including the bride and groom, were wearing sunglasses. And then we're all dead within a year. I thought that was awesome because they're just like doing, going out and doing gangster shit. So thank you for that gift. It almost makes up, it's, I mean, we're even on the watch now. Thank you.

• 58:41Speaker 01

  I, I don't think your business manager is right. You did not go too far. This, this is the best, the best gift you gave.

• 58:47Anthony Jeselnik?

  He was like, I saw you bought a watch and I was like, oh, don't worry about insuring it. That's not for me. I bought it for Greg. And he was like, like, it was like a sigh over an email kind of thing. Like, that's how I'm at. I mean, he works for me.

• 58:59Speaker 01

  I viewed it as a celebration of the end of your tour and an apology for ending our podcast.

• 59:05Anthony Jeselnik?

  It was more an apology for ending the podcast, but I got, I liked the idea of getting you a special gift. And you don't wear watches. And now on the NFL, you've got the best watch there.

• 59:15Speaker 01

  It gets comments. I also brought books, not to give to you necessarily, but just recommend some books.

• 59:21Anthony Jeselnik?

  Please.

• 59:22Speaker 01

  Okay. So you're a hard person to convince in general. I, I brought three, but this one you can take. It's The Hustler by Walter Tevis. I believe you read The Queen's Gambit as well. These are like amazing, that was a great show. I'm sure The Hustler is a great movie. I've actually never seen it, but the books are so much better. This to me, when I finished it, is the most Jeselnik Book Club book. Like, I've read since JBC started. Like, it is so good. It is so readable. It is very masculine.

• 59:54Anthony Jeselnik?

  I will remind you, when, when, when I pulled out, we were walking in a bookstore and I saw Queen's Gambit. And I said, I just read this, it's amazing. And you went. And now you love it. But I, The Hustler, sounds great. The movie's great, but I bet the book is incredible as well. I will read that.

• 1:00:08Speaker 01

  It is as good on like, as like, on competition and gambling and like, growing up as just about anything. Like, guys, you just stop being like, you know, a wimp and start, start going for it.

• 1:00:21Anthony Jeselnik?

  Fired up.

• 1:00:21Speaker 01

  Like you did.

• 1:00:22Anthony Jeselnik?

  That's a great, that's a great recommendation. I didn't even know it was a book, to be honest.

• 1:00:25Speaker 01

  I didn't either. I just saw a cool copy, a cooler one than this, at a bookstore in Japan and just bought it because it looked so cool. But I couldn't reproduce that for you on short notice, so I brought this one. The other two recommendations, I brought The Book of Goose by Eon Lee. I know you recently read her nonfiction book.

• 1:00:46Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yes, and I read her new one coming up, Music Against the Night. A banger, an absolute banger. The Book of Goose, you think that's her best one?

• 1:00:54Speaker 01

  The Book of Goose is her best one. Kind of similar in some ways to Ferrante. It starts, though, with the author in America and her, she finds out her friend has died. And the rest of the book is basically going through that friendship that she had in rural France, like 30 years before, where the, the friend helped her get out of France. There's some spooky stuff. There's a little bit of a mystery over why this woman died. And just, like, Eon Lee, to me, is like, the most talented writer, maybe, writing today. She is up there of just like, pure talent. Like, she's the Patrick Mahomes, I feel like, of, of writers.

• 1:01:32Anthony Jeselnik?

  Having read two of her books, incredible writer. I mean, very intellectual, incredible, deals a lot with death in like, a very smart way. I'm excited to read that. And I've just read two of her books in the past, like, three months, that I'm excited to read Book of Goose.

• 1:01:47Speaker 01

  And then The Singer's Gun by Emily St. John Mandel.

• 1:01:50Anthony Jeselnik?

  This is the one Emily St. John Mandel I have not read. I've read all her books except for Singer's Gun. And Exit Party, which I think we've both read. Have you read Exit Party yet? It just came out a few weeks ago, when this is airing. It's incredible, probably be on my top 10 of the year. But Singer's Gun, I've got to read. Again, you, you, I cannot believe you found my blind spot on St. John Mandel.

• 1:02:13Speaker 01

  I tried to be topical because I knew you just did a book by her, which is, which was my favorite by her, Glass Hotel. Singer's Gun might be now. And Exit Party is awesome, and that's a new book that's out. But this is kind of a prequel. You know how she has characters that kind of fly through all of her books? One of the main characters, the main character of Exit Party is a big character in this book. But it's more of a straightforward, like, crime book. And then the guy tries to escape his crime past in New York by going to this deserted island, or island in, in Italy. And the crime is why the character in Exit Party was like, just getting out of jail.

• 1:02:58Speaker 01

  So that's, that's what this book is.

• 1:02:59Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yeah, I mean, all her books are interconnected, but you don't need to have read them all.

• 1:03:03Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:03:04Anthony Jeselnik?

  And she said, like, I just sometimes think, oh, it wouldn't be interesting if this character was here. You can read them all independently, but I need to read Singer's Gun. Thank you, those are great gifts. Again, check out Greg Rosenthal on NFL Daily. The NFL season is ramping up. Only 25% of the players have been injured in the first two weeks, so it's going to be a fun season. And now it's time for To Be Continued. To Be Continued, next week, we are going to sit down with my good friend Patton Oswalt. Not as good a friend as Greg, but still a good friend of mine. And Patton and I are going to discuss reading. And also, we're going to break down, or go deeper into, one of my favorite novels of the year so far, Sam Talent's Brute.

• 1:03:49Anthony Jeselnik?

  If you are a Sam Talent fan, you will love this next episode. If you're a Patton Oswalt fan, you will love this next episode. Keep going with Jocelyn and Book Club. Listen, I'm going to remind you again, I'm going to bring this to the wringer. TV is bad, movies are bad, injuries are bad. Greg, give me something else that's bad right now.

• 1:04:08Speaker 01

  I mean, concussions in general.

• 1:04:10Anthony Jeselnik?

  Concussions in general are bad. Books are good. Read your books. See you next week.