'Brut' by Sam Tallent, With Patton Oswalt

Anthony is joined by comedian and voracious reader Patton Oswalt to talk 'Brut' by Sam Tallent, a novel about a hitman “forced to take an impossible job.” They also discuss some of Patton’s favorite books, a former boss who HATED bananas, the future of reading, novels written with movie adaptations in mind, and more. (00:00) Open(01:18) Introduction: Detroit, Comedians, Reading(06:53) Chapter 1: Patton Oswalt, Reader(14:48) Chapter 2: ‘Brut’ by Sam Tallent(36:50) Chapter 3: Jeselnik Book Club Gauntlet(49:39) Acknowledgments: Patton’s Gift and Small Press Publishing(53:16) To Be Continued: Isaac Fitzgerald on His Memoir, ‘American Rambler: Walking the Trail of Johnny Appleseed’ Email me your thoughts/questions about our next book club selection, “The Trees,” by October 26 at [email protected]. Join Jeselnik Book Club: https://anthonyjeselnik.com/the-jeselnik-book-clubTour Dates: https://anthonyjeselnik.com/tour Save the Jeselnik Book Club audiobooks playlist: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/37i9dQZF1DXdm9jUEbwwfR?si=8c8f714014474a83 Host: Anthony JeselnikGuest: Patton OswaltSupervising Producer: Magdalena MunaoTalent Booker: Paige GarbariniCreative Producer: Daniel ComerTechnical Director: Chris WohlersSet Design: Jonathan Ratliff and Gitu MehraEditor: Matt PevicSocial: Keith FujimotoAdditional Production Supervision: Jack Wilson Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Anthony Jeselnik?

  Hey, Anthony Jeselnik here with another edition of Jeselnik Book Club. This week, we are discussing a brand-new release called Brute from Sam Tallent. Sam Tallent wrote a book a few years ago called Running the Light, which I talked up to the fucking heavens as one of the, if not the best book about stand-up comedy, the best novel about stand-up comedy that I've ever read. I had a chance to read an advanced copy of Brute. I have to describe the cover of it, so the lawyers don't sue us. It is a guy holding a gun. It looks like there's a silencer on the gun. It's a hand. He's using the gun as a club, which is the coolest possible book cover. It's also read, "Brute by Sam Tallent."

• 0:50Anthony Jeselnik?

  We could not get Sam Tallent onto the show to talk about this book. He lives in Detroit and does not like coming to L.A. So we got the next best possible guest, someone else.

• 1:15Anthony Jeselnik?

  Patton Oswalt.

• 1:16Speaker 01

  Hi.

• 1:17Anthony Jeselnik?

  Thank you.

• 1:18Speaker 01

  I live in L.A. I don't like going to Detroit, so this is a perfect balance.

• 1:22Anthony Jeselnik?

  I want to like Detroit more than...

• 1:24Speaker 01

  I really do.

• 1:25Anthony Jeselnik?

  I go to tour there sometimes and enjoy the shows, but the idea of this city, of this fallen angel that's coming back.

• 1:33Speaker 01

  Well, the only thing that I kind of like about it is every time I go there and I'm taking a cab from the airport, the cab driver will ask me, "Oh, so you're here doing a movie?" And I'm like, "No, no, I'm doing a show." And I go, "Why are you asking if I'm doing a movie?" And they say, "Well, they're always shooting like four or five post-apocalyptic films in and around Detroit, because it's free sets, basically, of the apocalypse."

• 1:55Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yeah.

• 1:56Speaker 01

  And each time I've gone there, a cab driver has asked me, "Are you doing one of these? There's a zombie thing, then there's a thing where the plants are like alive, eating people." There's always some kind of apocalypse. Something's filming in Detroit that's the apocalypse.

• 2:10Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yeah, I like the idea of living there. It's almost like an artist colony.

• 2:16Speaker 01

  There's people that squat downtown and steal power off of the streetlights. There's artists, and which, it's New York in the late '70s, early '80s, where you can live for nothing and actually get... So yeah, if you're young and you're an artist, absolutely. I'm in my 50s. I need comfort and safety. I did my years living on the edge. I'm good.

• 2:40Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yeah, I feel like if I went there, they would just take my things.

• 2:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, and if I went there, not only would they take my things, they'd be right in taking my things. I am slumming, and I'm trying to do that weird midlife crisis, trying to recapture my 20s. Like, you did your 20s sleeping on floors and living in cheap cities. You stop pretending to be something else. Stop it.

• 3:05Anthony Jeselnik?

  So just to sum up, Detroit, keep doing what you're doing, you be you.

• 3:09Speaker 01

  You be you, but don't involve me.

• 3:13Anthony Jeselnik?

  I like to visit. I like to wear the hats. I like a tiger's hat.

• 3:16Speaker 01

  You like a tiger's hat?

• 3:17Anthony Jeselnik?

  So Patton, I've known you as long as I've been doing comedy. 22 years we met. You were the godfather of the alt-comedy scene when I started.

• 3:26Speaker 01

  One of the godfathers, but thank you, yes.

• 3:28Anthony Jeselnik?

  To me, you felt like the godfather because you were so welcoming and interested in younger comics.

• 3:34Speaker 01

  That is true.

• 3:36Anthony Jeselnik?

  Like, everyone loved Galifianakis. Galifianakis wanted nothing to do with anyone who was in their early 20s.

• 3:41Speaker 01

  No.

• 3:42Anthony Jeselnik?

  Whereas you were very much like, "Let's go to dinner. Let me... Like, there's something I can do to help you." You had that tour, Comedians of Comedy, which every young comic was like, trying to get on, and I'll never forget, like, we all worshipped the movie, loved the tour. Everyone tried to get on the tour. I remember begging your manager to be like, "Let me do the Pittsburgh show."

• 4:02Speaker 01

  Right.

• 4:03Anthony Jeselnik?

  And then at one point, you just said, "Hey, guys, start your own Comedians of Comedy." And I was like, "That's such a great piece of advice."

• 4:11Speaker 01

  Well, that's kind of what I was hoping would happen, because there were very, very limited spots. And obviously, I wanted people to do guest spots as much as I could, but there was the core group that started with me, and I couldn't, like, you know, turn my back on them. I wanted them to keep... Maria, Zach, and Brian. We would try to do guest sets whenever we could in different cities, but for the most part, I was like, "Yeah, I hope this will..." In a way, both for good and bad, I think it did launch versions of itself. Like, "Okay, let's go do this. Let's go out with our friends."

• 4:44Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yeah, definitely. But you're always great to everyone. I know you were always very supportive of me from the beginning. You've been very supportive of the book club.

• 4:51Speaker 01

  Oh, man.

• 4:52Anthony Jeselnik?

  I can go behind the scenes. You will text me and say, "I'm done with this month's book. Tell me what next month's is."

• 4:58Speaker 01

  I am so ahead of the... I see that you have the October book on the table. I'm halfway through it.

• 5:03Anthony Jeselnik?

  You are?

• 5:04Speaker 01

  It's great.

• 5:05Anthony Jeselnik?

  It's so great.

• 5:05Speaker 01

  Yeah. Your selections are... And again, that interview that you did in the New York Times book section was so great, which is, you know, there are great novels that are really slim and really... Everyone thinks, "A great novel, oh, that's like 700 pages." I don't know if I... No, it's the same way with... There are great movies that are 71 minutes long, but everyone thinks that a great movie has to be two and a half hours to three hours to be important, and I completely disagree with that.

• 5:33Anthony Jeselnik?

  No. A great, like, a 90-minute movie that just doesn't fuck around at all is like the best possible...

• 5:39Speaker 01

  And that can get it said in 90 minutes. I mean, there are themes of... In The Bride of Frankenstein, which I believe is 76 minutes long, they wrestle with God and life and death and morality and all that stuff within 76 minutes. And it's a rich, deep experience, because, like you said, all meat, no filler. They know what they want to say, get in. And that actually, I think, lands on people way harder than something that it's like, "Look how important this is." Because then, to paraphrase Orson Welles, "Then the movie is insisting on itself, and it shouldn't have to do that."

• 6:19Anthony Jeselnik?

  Exactly. Exactly. You don't want to give people a chance to, like, think too much or get bored. It's like, just nail it. Just get in there and nail it. 250-page book, 300 pages. I don't know how long Brute is, but I think it's the perfect length.

• 6:33Speaker 01

  And it also, Brute zips by. There are certain chapters that are a page long.

• 6:38Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yes.

• 6:38Speaker 01

  Because they only need to be a page long.

• 6:40Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yeah.

• 6:40Speaker 01

  It's... We'll get into it, but it's amazing.

• 6:44Anthony Jeselnik?

  We'll get into it. Let's, right now, let's get into... Now that we've gotten the introduction out of the way.

• 6:48Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 6:49Anthony Jeselnik?

  And you know my reputation. Let's get into chapter one.

• 6:55Anthony Jeselnik?

  Patton, it's so funny to me that you are a big reader, because you don't look like you'd be a big reader.

• 7:00Speaker 01

  I don't look like I'd be a big reader.

• 7:02Anthony Jeselnik?

  That was total sarcasm.

• 7:03Speaker 01

  I look like the chair that a big reader would sit in. That's literally how I'm shaped. I could not...

• 7:09Anthony Jeselnik?

  You look like a comic book shop.

• 7:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. I do. I look like a living comic book shop.

• 7:13Anthony Jeselnik?

  When I met you, you were, I mean, big into comics. I remember in the documentary, you visit comic book stores.

• 7:19Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 7:19Anthony Jeselnik?

  Was that your gateway into reading? I mean, and now I know you read heavier literature and all kinds of stuff, but were comic books the start for you?

• 7:29Speaker 01

  No. Actually, very heavy literature was my start. I started off reading stuff like, I was a huge Mark Twain fan, a big Poe fan, even when I was really, really young. I don't know what it was. I'm not the smartest and most discerning of reader, but a guy like Poe, who was so obscure in his descriptions and so elliptical and so almost passive in the way he gets into things, I don't know what it was, I was able to hone in on his frequency even when I was really young. And then later on, I mean, comics were always fun, but then later on, when I picked up stuff by, let's say, Alan Moore, Saga of the Swamp Thing, a lot of Neil Gaiman stuff, a lot of Frank Miller stuff, a lot of early Jamie Teleno, I realized they were doing

• 8:14Speaker 01

  deep, rich literary tropes and methods in this format, which is, it's a cool picture with a description, and they learned how to smuggle great... I mean, the beginning of the Anatomy Lesson issue, issue 20... Issue 21 of Saga of the Swamp Thing, when he's... The main character is watching rain start to fall on Washington, D.C., and he describes old women are putting their potted plants out on the balcony, like, coddled princelings, something like that. And that you're just in this villain's thoughts while he's looking over D.C., and this is going to be a comic book. Swamp Thing is going to show up and fight this guy,

• 8:59Speaker 01

  but this is, they're using all that to set the scene, even though you also see the pictures. It was a thing of, "Oh, wait a minute. We are doing great literature," because... We have to land on one image to capture one moment, the way a great painting does. But you can add all kinds of descriptions and context to that single image. That will then enrich the image that you're looking at.

• 9:26Anthony Jeselnik?

  But you think you wouldn't have been able to appreciate those comics?

• 9:29Speaker 01

  No way.

• 9:30Anthony Jeselnik?

  If you hadn't had that Poe background?

• 9:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. I wouldn't have had the, you know, Mark Twain describing almost the simplest, non-important stuff, a bunch of kids painting a fence, whitewashing a fence, but it all, but he gets into, how are we conned into things? How can false excitement be built up about things? How do you profit off of that all? But, and he's, all he's doing is, it's kids whitewashing a fence.

• 9:56Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yeah.

• 9:57Speaker 01

  And same with Superman aboard the Justice League Satellite, looking around at the other people. And he looks at The Flash, and The Flash is described as, again, The Flash, it's the fastest man in the world. He runs really fast. But then in Alan Moore's thing, it's a man who moves so fast, his life is a gallery of statues. And you're like, oh, wait a minute, there might be more to being The Flash, if you actually think about.

• 10:20Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yeah, The Flash is, it's hard to be The Flash.

• 10:22Speaker 01

  It would not be fun, in a weird way, because everyone is just moving so slow. And so that, like, taking the, taking what has already been established, agreed on, and then go, but wait, there's another angle in this. That's what all great literature does.

• 10:37Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yeah. It's kind of, so you'd like, for The Flash, for you, it's like, The Flash is always like a guest on someone's podcast.

• 10:43Speaker 01

  Yes. And, and The Flash is a guy with a constant hard out. But his hard out is in seconds. His hard out is literally in seconds.

• 10:52Anthony Jeselnik?

  I want a follow-up. You talked about liking Poe so much when you run, were you into Stephen King as well? Or were you like, hey, Stephen King is for normies. I'm gonna take the extra step and get into Poe.

• 11:02Speaker 01

  No, I, I started with Poe, and Poe was about, in my mind, well, horror is castles and dungeons and exotic Gothic places. And then he was such a great natural segue into Stephen King, because Stephen King was, was like, that same level of cosmic horror, that same level of Gothic dread, can be found in line at a supermarket, or at a high school prom, or at a, a weekend job, where guys have been hired to clean out a basement for easy money. Terror can be in a can of beer, if you ever read the short story, Grey Matter.

• 11:40Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yes.

• 11:40Speaker 01

  So that, again, taking, and, and he, he just continued on with what Richard Matheson had been doing in the 50s and 60s, and Ray Bradbury, with a lot of Ray Bradbury's horror stories, is, look at the ordinary around you and think about it differently. You know, notice that.

• 11:59Anthony Jeselnik?

  I think that's a good tip for anyone listening to Justin and the Book Club, watching Justin and the Book Club right now. If someone is talking about books, and they reference a short story quickly and ask you if you've read it, you can just lie. They're not gonna ask a follow-up, they'll just keep talking, it's great. This has been very educational.

• 12:15Speaker 01

  So you like Grey Matter. So who are the three main characters? It starts off in a, I'll give you this, they're, yeah, that'd be terrible if I became that kind of guest.

• 12:22Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yeah, you can't quiz someone. Like, have you read this? If they say yes, you just move on.

• 12:26Speaker 01

  You have to.

• 12:27Anthony Jeselnik?

  There are no follow-ups.

• 12:28Speaker 01

  No.

• 12:28Anthony Jeselnik?

  And again, you can read something and then forget it. One of the big things I try to teach people is, it's okay to read and forget everything. You're still getting the value of reading something.

• 12:38Speaker 01

  And there are, there is a, you learn something in these things I read, and they didn't stay with me. And this thing I read that I didn't think, I think this will be fun, and this, like, landed, and like, haunts me.

• 12:51Anthony Jeselnik?

  That's perfect. I wanted, I forgot to mention this up top, you wrote a book years ago, a, a book of essays.

• 12:57Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 12:58Anthony Jeselnik?

  That I read, right when it came out.

• 13:00Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 13:00Anthony Jeselnik?

  And again, it's a book of different essays, and there, I have forgotten most of it. But one thing has stuck with me, all these years later, and it is, your boss at the movie theater who loses his shit if you tell him you ate a banana.

• 13:14Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 13:15Anthony Jeselnik?

  Who would be totally cool, you could make fun of him, you could roast him all day. But if you said you had a banana for lunch, he would lose his goddamn mind. And I remember thinking, that was so funny.

• 13:25Speaker 01

  Yes, it was, wait a minute, yeah, it was something where we're all insulting him. His name was Rod. He was the co-manager, and he literally lived in the theater. He did not have a place to live, so he lived in the projection booth. And he looked exactly how you think he would look, like a ghoul. And you would sit there and go, hey, Rod, and then, yeah, you would, if you called him, like, either a dumb banana or a dingleberry, it was one, like, you could say every other horrible thing to him, and you said the one thing, and he would lose his, so there was clearly, that, that word had been used on him in the past, in some circumstance where that is his, you can't cross the line word. And that, that's always fascinated me.

• 14:06Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yeah, I always love that. And I love when something sticks with you, you don't know why. I don't know why that stuck with me, but some, one thing from a book will just keep, stay with you forever.

• 14:15Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 14:16Anthony Jeselnik?

  And you have to just find those things, you don't know where they're coming from.

• 14:18Speaker 01

  Also, the stuff that stays with you is a way, as you get older, where you realize, oh, I'm actually constructing my true self, because the stuff that stays with me is a map to what matters to me and who I actually am. Or is a map to stuff that I still haven't resolved. That's why that has stuck with me.

• 14:37Anthony Jeselnik?

  I've always had issues with potassium, and now I know why. And now let's get to, chapter two.

• 14:47Anthony Jeselnik?

  So, Sam Tallent's brute, you know Sam Tallent, I assume? Have you met him?

• 14:52Speaker 01

  I've never got to meet him in person. We, we talk on Instagram, but I've never actually gotten to meet him.

• 14:57Anthony Jeselnik?

  I've met him a couple times, talked to him, it's just okay. Like, walking, like, out of a podcast, we run into each other. I did run into her at an after-party one time. But I remember just reading Running the Light, and recommending it to my podcast, and he reached out to say thank you. Like, we actually met one time. I just read the, I don't know about you, I like to read any novel about a stand-up comic.

• 15:17Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 15:18Anthony Jeselnik?

  I will read that, and I'm always let down. It's like, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

• 15:22Speaker 01

  Or you're misremembering things to make yourself look better. You're not embracing the awkwardness, especially being on the road, young, or being on the road, old. There is certain awkwardness to it that, wow, does he not shy away from that?

• 15:38Anthony Jeselnik?

  No, nails it. I thought the ending was incredible. I mean, the, the ending was, was perfect.

• 15:43Speaker 01

  It was tragic, but also kind of a relief.

• 15:46Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yes.

• 15:47Speaker 01

  Like, you kind of feel like, oh, thank, you know what it reminded me of? This is, here's, talk, talk about watching something terrible, and there's one thing, there's a terrible Kevin Costner movie called Waterworld. But there's a guy, it's so bad. The villain is on the Exxon Valdez, that's where the, that's the villain's ship. And they have a guy that they've, they've stuck down in the oil thing.

• 16:10Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yes.

• 16:11Speaker 01

  He's the, the depth, yeah, and he's just like, how, what's our depth? He's like, oh, it's this thing, and they close it. And then, at the end, Kevin Costner drops a flare into the oil, and this wall of flame comes toward the guy, he just goes, oh, thank God.

• 16:25Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yes. Huge laugh in the movie.

• 16:27Speaker 01

  Huge, it's like, the best part of the movie, and I've never forgotten that moment.

• 16:31Anthony Jeselnik?

  And I will say, I will defend Waterworld for that scene.

• 16:33Speaker 01

  Me too.

• 16:34Anthony Jeselnik?

  You don't think he's gonna drop it, him dropping a flare into the gas tank of a, of an oil tanker.

• 16:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:40Anthony Jeselnik?

  And blowing up everybody is a cool move.

• 16:41Speaker 01

  It's brilliant.

• 16:42Anthony Jeselnik?

  Coolest thing Kevin Costner's ever done.

• 16:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. And, but, there's, there's a similar moment, kind of at the end of Running the Light, that really made me go, oh, wow, he, and I'm so glad I took that long journey to get to that moment. Sometimes it's worth it.

• 16:55Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yeah. Would love that book, and was excited for his follow-up. And I, listen, I, you read a lot of books every year, I read a lot of books every year.

• 17:02Speaker 01

  Not as, I, I think I do about 30 a year, you do way more.

• 17:06Anthony Jeselnik?

  Okay.

• 17:06Speaker 01

  I think you do more, more than a book a week.

• 17:08Anthony Jeselnik?

  Pretty much, yeah. I try to, I try to keep up with what's coming out, as it's coming out. And then I try to go back and read what people recommend to me. You've sent me books that I've read. My TBR pile is always insane.

• 17:18Speaker 01

  Oh, my, my pile's insane right now, yeah.

• 17:20Anthony Jeselnik?

  It's wild. But, I like, I'll always read the back of the book, you know, before I read it. I wanna know what this is about. And every once in a while, someone comes along, which I will put in a category called, extremely my shit. That if you're like, oh, this is about a hitman on an impossible task. Written by a writer that I think is a great writer.

• 17:41Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 17:42Anthony Jeselnik?

  That I am like, I'm so excited, because there's a lot of, like, hitman, impossible task, their dime store, and not good.

• 17:48Speaker 01

  There's piles of them.

• 17:50Anthony Jeselnik?

  You can, like, look at the font when you open the book, and no, I'm not gonna like this. But when I saw what Sam's talent was about, and I saw the cover. I was, which I won't describe again, you can't sue me, go back to the beginning of the show, I'm bulletproof now.

• 18:03Speaker 01

  Damn.

• 18:04Anthony Jeselnik?

  I saw the cover, and I was like, this is awesome, I can't wait to read this, begged him for an advance copy, and then read it, and was even more blown away than I thought it would, because it's, it gives you everything that it promises. And then a little bit more, and the language is beautiful.

• 18:21Speaker 01

  Well, here's what excited me about it. A, Running the Light, okay, he's established himself, the dude can write. He can write. And he does this very vulnerable, soul-searching book about a comedian, basically, on his last legs. So then he's like, and his, the next one was, now I'm doing the one about a hitman. She's like, and in comic books, there are certain artists that you're like, I can't wait for he or him or her to draw this character, because their style, I wanna see what their style does to this character that I like. So Sam Tallent, his way of thinking, his way of noticing things, the stuff that his characters notice. And he's gonna put that into a hitman novel?

• 19:05Speaker 01

  I can't wait to see what he does with this.

• 19:07Anthony Jeselnik?

  Exactly.

• 19:07Speaker 01

  It's like when you see a, when a great director is, when Hitchcock was like, I'm gonna do a slasher movie. Like, what is this gonna be like?

• 19:15Anthony Jeselnik?

  Mm-hmm.

• 19:15Speaker 01

  And so, so, and, and this really, really doesn't disappoint. And to, to back up your point, it is actually a very, very simple, basic plot. It is a hitman on an impossible mission. Okay, well, I've read that a million times. He hangs every possible new twist and idea and inner thought monologue off of that very simple spine. So that you're constantly surprised. He is taking down a road that in your mind, I, I know what this road is gonna be. But, and then he, and he gets where you think he's gonna be, not in the way you think he'll get there.

• 19:51Anthony Jeselnik?

  No, and the

• 19:51Speaker 01

  Oh, my god.

• 19:52Anthony Jeselnik?

  The obstacles he puts in his way, because you know it can't be a smooth, it's not a good novel, it's a smooth journey.

• 19:56Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no.

• 19:57Anthony Jeselnik?

  But the obstacles are so tense. Where like, I'll set up, this novel is about, it's about a guy, he gets out of the military, gets into private security. He's, he's a private security force celebrities and fucks up.

• 20:11Speaker 01

  Well, he fuck, here's what it look, he fucks up by succeeding.

• 20:15Anthony Jeselnik?

  He gets caught on camera doing his job.

• 20:17Speaker 01

  But doing John Wick shit, which ruins his life.

• 20:20Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yeah, he gets the nickname Jason Bourne, his cover's blown, like, you're getting fired, even though everybody wants to hire you now. And they explain, they have this monologue of why being a famous bodyguard is a bad thing.

• 20:32Speaker 01

  It's terrible.

• 20:32Anthony Jeselnik?

  And it's like, it makes sense, you would think, oh, he's now he's gonna be like this in-demand, but they're like, no. It's actually the opposite of that, and it makes sense.

• 20:41Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 20:41Anthony Jeselnik?

  But they're like, but you can be a contract killer. And so he becomes a hitman, botches a job in a way where he kills someone extra, which happens a lot in like these hitman noirs. Where like, you kill one person, too many.

• 20:55Speaker 01

  Or you kill the wrong, or something, yeah, something goes wrong.

• 20:58Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yes, uh, either, it's supposed to look like a suicide, you made it like a look at death, but now you're in trouble.

• 21:04Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 21:04Anthony Jeselnik?

  And they give him an impossible task, they're like, listen, you're gonna be wiped out, uh, because you killed the daughter of a, of a, the godfather of Italy.

• 21:13Speaker 01

  The saint of killers.

• 21:14Anthony Jeselnik?

  And if you, you're gonna be wiped out, they, they've seen your face, they know who you are, you've gotta go kill this guy at her funeral of the woman that you killed.

• 21:23Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 21:24Anthony Jeselnik?

  Or you're gonna be killed, and it's an impossible task, which it makes it great. Like, you've gotta go sneak into this church during a funeral and kill the father of the woman we're bearing.

• 21:32Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 21:33Anthony Jeselnik?

  Everyone's sad, but they're all mafia, and I think this book, like a lot of books I've read, the thesis is almost, Italian people are fucking nuts. Like, Italian people are the craziest people in the world.

• 21:47Speaker 01

  Well, they have

• 21:48Anthony Jeselnik?

  Not in a bad way.

• 21:48Speaker 01

  No, yeah, they have, some of the, um, conversations between the main character and the saint of killers when they get together and talk about life and talk about stuff. The guy, the saint of killers, does make a lot of sense, even though he lives in an extreme violent world. It is a consistent, extreme violent world.

• 22:08Anthony Jeselnik?

  Mm-hmm.

• 22:08Speaker 01

  It, he doesn't contradict himself, and he, and he knows, no, the way I live doesn't fit into the ordinary world, but it fits into the world I built around me. And it does make sense, even though it's horrifying.

• 22:18Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yeah.

• 22:19Speaker 01

  And it's amazing, Sam doesn't let up, and he really puts his protagonist, who is a very sensitive, very wise soul. Has him bump up against people that he can't defend against.

• 22:33Anthony Jeselnik?

  No.

• 22:33Speaker 01

  Philosophically, which is amazing.

• 22:35Anthony Jeselnik?

  And it's also like a love story told throughout, they get bits and pieces.

• 22:40Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 22:40Anthony Jeselnik?

  That I think in a way heightens everything. Because it's like this guy, it's like, you've gotta have nothing to lose to take this job on. It's like, hey, you're gonna be killed if you don't take this job on, and then very quickly finds out that that's a lie, he's been lied to about that.

• 22:55Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 22:56Anthony Jeselnik?

  And still goes on with it anyway.

• 22:58Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 22:58Anthony Jeselnik?

  Because as this love story goes on, you find out that he truly has nothing to lose.

• 23:03Speaker 01

  He has nothing to go back to.

• 23:05Anthony Jeselnik?

  He's lost the love of his life. There's a couple, I mean, there's, I don't wanna, again, I don't wanna give away too much.

• 23:10Speaker 01

  So much stuff.

• 23:11Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yeah, that looks

• 23:12Speaker 01

  There are lines in here where you're like, oh my

• 23:14Anthony Jeselnik?

  So many great lines, such a great noir, and in noir, you're counting the great lines, you're just like, oh, this, he found, he went mining through noir. And Sam Tallent obviously has a huge education

• 23:26Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 23:26Anthony Jeselnik?

  Of noir, and so you know these are original lines.

• 23:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:30Anthony Jeselnik?

  But one of the things I've liked the most about this book was the sexual tension that could be confused for like, almost like a, like a mouse in a, in a cage with a snake. And you're like, I don't know if he's about to get laid or about to get murdered.

• 23:47Speaker 01

  Right.

• 23:48Anthony Jeselnik?

  With the character of Darlo, who is the right-hand man of the mafia boss.

• 23:52Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 23:53Anthony Jeselnik?

  Who the entire time they are together, it's like, that guy shows up and it's almost like a video game where like the music changes. And you're like, oh shit, here comes the boss.

• 24:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 24:02Anthony Jeselnik?

  And you really don't know until the very end of their story, what it is.

• 24:07Speaker 01

  Which is, god, there's so much I don't wanna, I can't say here.

• 24:10Anthony Jeselnik?

  But it's expert level shit from Sam Tallent.

• 24:13Speaker 01

  And, well, again, there are certain lines in here, I, I can read a couple out of context, because it won't ruin anything.

• 24:20Anthony Jeselnik?

  Please.

• 24:20Speaker 01

  But, um, here's him, here's him just describing an evening. When he woke, he went to the southern wall and pulled the curtain aside and lit a cigarette and sat on the windowsill. That's very Ernest Hemingway, very basic, basic, basic, he lit a cigarette, sits on the windowsill. Outside, night fought day to a standstill, that is hardcore noir. Outside, night fought day to a standstill, and then listen to where it goes. The nexus time, when the purpiled corpse of the golden hour renders reality violet. So in those three, he's done this very basic Cormac McCarthy, he went, sat on the windowsill.

• 24:57Speaker 01

  Then a great little noir thing, eh, the night fought day to a standstill, and to the, so you get, not only do you get the, this, just, it's great to read. But like, that's how our main character's mind works. It's the, I'm doing, here's the thing I gotta do, here's my little, you know, snippy thing, but I do have poetry in me, I just can't show it to the world.

• 25:18Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yes.

• 25:19Speaker 01

  All in that one, all in that one little passage.

• 25:21Anthony Jeselnik?

  And the character is so comfortable with violence and confident with violence, that it seems to do everything without turning to fear.

• 25:30Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 25:30Anthony Jeselnik?

  It's not a, it's, no one is scared in this book, ever. It's just like, you just meet the world head on, and you find out what happens.

• 25:39Speaker 01

  You know what it reminded me, I wonder if he watched the Iceman tapes, there's a HBO documentary where they talk to that hitman, the Iceman. And he's so blasé, and, and I know that a lot of his stuff that he said was lies. But at one point, he talks to that guy Park Dietz, who is a psychologist, that talks, deals with serial killers. And Park Dietz said, you know, a lot of what you do, um, is what makes people great mountain climbers or, you know, parachutists. Because you don't have that fear, unfortunately, you were only taught violence. Now, maybe you pass that same lack of fear on to your daughters, but if they were raised with love, maybe they'll go do something amazing with it. Because you do things that in a day would, it would ruin someone's life.

• 26:23Speaker 01

  They'd be beside themselves for the rest of their life, thinking about that thing, and you don't think about it. So there's a level of psychopathy, but there's also a lack of fear, that if it was just, just pointed towards something positive, you could do something amazing.

• 26:36Anthony Jeselnik?

  Mm-hmm.

• 26:37Speaker 01

  And, and you keep getting this idea that Bobby Bojolay could do something amazing with his life. If he had just been raised with some modicum of love, but when they go back into his, his dad working all day at the abattoir and coming home and listening to Frank Zappa and drinking cheap You're like, oh my god, this is like, I get the whole thing right there.

• 26:58Anthony Jeselnik?

  He's like a military recruiter's dream.

• 27:00Speaker 01

  Exactly, and, and the father too, was a guy that, I've got poetry in me, I have, but all, I'm, I'm being hired to swing a hammer and be drenched in blood all day. So all that's been beaten out of me, it's just passed on from generation to generation, it's amazing.

• 27:14Anthony Jeselnik?

  And I mean, speaking of poetry, I mean, in this book, I love the action, I love the violence, the tension before the big hit, before the impossible job. And, and again, the fallout, it's never, these things never go smoothly.

• 27:26Speaker 01

  No.

• 27:27Anthony Jeselnik?

  And if they do, it's like, he knows that, even if he, even if he gets away with it, he hasn't gotten away with it.

• 27:33Speaker 01

  No.

• 27:34Anthony Jeselnik?

  You know, it's like, he's a hunted man for the rest of his life. I love the scenes where he's just like, where they're talking about Paris. There's a whole scene where they're like, traveling to Europe, and they're like, everyone's like, oh, you know, he's never been to Paris, and everyone's like, oh, you've never been to Paris? You're like, to be young and in Paris.

• 27:49Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 27:49Anthony Jeselnik?

  And it made me want, I went out and I bought, I had to write it down, mackerel. I bought tinned mackerel, because

• 27:55Speaker 01

  You did!

• 27:56Anthony Jeselnik?

  Where the uncle takes him and says, you've gotta come, and he takes, we buy a baguette.

• 28:00Speaker 01

  And they spread it on the baguette.

• 28:01Anthony Jeselnik?

  And they spread it on the baguette, and they make these sandwiches, and he's like, there's oil dripping down their chins, and I was like, I've gotta go do that right now.

• 28:08Speaker 01

  I was just in Madrid this summer, and the tinned fish there, there are stores that just sell the tinned fish, they do their own, they age it, and you just spread, everything, every, every part of it is amazing.

• 28:20Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yeah, it's incredible, that is, the idea of like a hitman book, taking time to make you hungry. For these beautiful, like, make you wanna go to Paris, and, and again, just enjoy Paris. Not like, I wanna go to Paris and kill somebody, and I, listen, I would love to do that, but just to make you want to go and try different dishes is a, uh

• 28:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:42Anthony Jeselnik?

  It's, it's great just to even think to put that in there.

• 28:45Speaker 01

  Well, but that also links back to a line that I can't find right now, but it's like Proximity to beauty made him beautiful. In other words, having good food, or good wine, or good sex is the bath from the ugliness. Because at his core, he is a brute drenched in blood. So maybe if he can occasionally have an amazing bottle of old Italian wine, or have amazing French food, or buy a beautiful suit, I can temporarily be beautiful. It's like possessions made me beautiful.

• 29:19Anthony Jeselnik?

  It's also great, interesting to see this character so out of his element in that he doesn't speak, it's Italians in Paris. He doesn't speak French or Italian.

• 29:28Speaker 01

  And boy, does he, boy, does Sam Tallent nail what Bobby's French sounds like to the French people he's talking to perfectly.

• 29:36Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yeah. He just seems so out of place, but you're reading this novel and you just feel like, you just, again, you don't feel uncomfortable, you just can't wait to find out what happens next.

• 29:47Speaker 01

  So this line here, he armored, this isn't the line I was going to put, it's close. "He armored his mech suit in fine consumer goods." In other words, the mech suit is ugly, it's here for killing, but maybe if I hang something nice off it, I'm not this monster. If you read a lot of early James Bond novels, James Bond is a psychopath.

• 30:06Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yes.

• 30:06Speaker 01

  And he's always talking about how this is the most expensive champagne, this is the most expensive shampoo, this is the most, it's a psychopath trying to, I just wonder if that's a weird nod to the, because if you read the early James Bond novels, they're not the fun movies that you're used to. It's like, it's this psychopath.

• 30:24Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yeah, the bitch is dead.

• 30:25Speaker 01

  He's Patrick Bateman.

• 30:26Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yes.

• 30:27Speaker 01

  So that whole idea of hanging finery off myself, and Patrick Bateman, the same way, in American Psycho, he literally knows that that's an $800 tie, that's a $3,000 shirt, that's a, I'm trying to drape myself in this so that I'm not a monster.

• 30:41Anthony Jeselnik?

  And I think it's just the first time he's gotten to enjoy these comforts.

• 30:43Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 30:44Anthony Jeselnik?

  Where it's like, oh, I'm going out, he knows he's probably not going to live through this.

• 30:49Speaker 01

  Right.

• 30:50Anthony Jeselnik?

  I may as well enjoy myself.

• 30:51Speaker 01

  Can I have a day where I'm just sitting in a cafe and I don't have to be anywhere?

• 30:55Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yeah.

• 30:56Speaker 01

  And I'm just eating and just thinking like these people in Paris do all fucking day?

• 31:01Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yeah.

• 31:01Speaker 01

  Why can't I have this life?

• 31:02Anthony Jeselnik?

  He's got to kill someone, but he's also, I've got a day to enjoy Paris, I'm going to enjoy Paris.

• 31:06Speaker 01

  I'm gonna do it.

• 31:07Anthony Jeselnik?

  I'm not gonna get drunk in my, in my room, I'm gonna enjoy it. And then the last thing I'll talk about this book, because I really don't want to spoil it for anyone. I think everyone should read this.

• 31:15Speaker 01

  Oh, boy.

• 31:15Anthony Jeselnik?

  Everyone. Like, I don't, it's not just like, it's not just like a book for guys who like hitman novels or action stuff, like, women will love this book.

• 31:23Speaker 01

  Well, there is a amazingly drawn female character in this book. Gianna, that could be her, that if you realize, oh, wait a minute, if we go back in time, there's a whole other novel that happened before he even meets her.

• 31:37Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yes.

• 31:38Speaker 01

  That's dark and amazing.

• 31:39Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yes, and she's more complex than any other character in the book.

• 31:43Speaker 01

  Oh, my god, yeah.

• 31:44Anthony Jeselnik?

  An incredible character, but there is a part of this book that comes out of nowhere. Right towards the end, it's, you see the end coming, and it's like, it's during, to not spoil it, like during a getaway, that is going increasingly wrong as they often do. And all of a sudden, there is an interlude.

• 32:03Speaker 01

  I underlined the whole interlude, by the way. I didn't have the stickies to do it, but that, that whole thing.

• 32:08Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yes, is incredible.

• 32:09Speaker 01

  I couldn't believe it.

• 32:10Anthony Jeselnik?

  He runs into a stranger, who he basically, for once in his life, he's like, I need help, or I'm going to die.

• 32:16Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 32:16Anthony Jeselnik?

  And this, and the stranger just decides to help him. Out of, you think it's like, maybe because he's got a gun, he's afraid, but no, he just decides to help him, and the stranger gives his backstory. And it is one, it has nothing to do with the rest of the novel, I mean, it has everything to do with the rest of the novel.

• 32:31Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 32:32Anthony Jeselnik?

  But the character's out of nowhere, and it's so beautiful that it could be its own, if this was just published in The New Yorker, it would have won awards.

• 32:39Speaker 01

  As a short story, that, yeah, it would have won awards, yeah. It, it reminds me of those great, and again, I, I don't want this made into a movie, I want this made into a TV series, this can't be a film, this has to be, but that is what can be one of those things like Ned Beatty in Network, where you hire an actor to do one scene, and it becomes, it gets quoted forever.

• 33:00Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yeah.

• 33:01Speaker 01

  And yes, it comes out of nowhere, but it weirdly, not only does it sum up the novel, but it serves as a warning for what is about to happen, that I don't quite know that the protagonist gets, but we certainly see what it is. And it is so haunting and so beautiful. Again, that, that, that, the interlude, it is an interlude. But I think that's gonna be studied and parsed, and it's so brilliant.

• 33:28Anthony Jeselnik?

  And just as a writer, to have the audacity and the confidence to drop it in right at the end, when everyone's waiting for like the finale, is just, I think, just a bold choice that I loved.

• 33:39Speaker 01

  You know what it reminded me of? The thing in, if you watch the movie Fargo, and we're near the end, we're in the third act now, and she stops to get lunch with that old classmate of hers, the Asian guy, who is trying to hit on her, and she's trying to remain decent in front of this desperate weird guy, and you're like, people are like, what is this scene? It has like, but it has everything to do with her character, and how she is, whether in the face of this awkward nerd trying to get her in bed, or a guy feeding a guy into a wood chipper, she's going to try to be, do the decent thing. And, and she's also missing something about life by going, I just, I don't understand, I just don't understand, why can't people just be nice?

• 34:24Speaker 01

  Because there's a deeper darkness and desperation that you haven't bumped up against. And what's amazing about this is, you think Bobby has brushed up against the most ancient darkness, and he meets someone who's brushed up against something, again, meets a guy, that, that could have also been a novel. This massive novel is momentarily brushing up against another massive novel, and then they're parting, and it's breathtaking.

• 34:49Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yeah, it's fantastic. I loved it, and I like the comparison to Ned Beatty in Network. I've just, the character comes out of nowhere and just, like, makes the movie and disappears.

• 34:58Speaker 01

  Gone.

• 34:58Anthony Jeselnik?

  Like Alec Baldwin in Rust.

• 35:00Speaker 01

  Rust.

• 35:01Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yes.

• 35:05Speaker 01

  Thought you were gonna say Glengarry Glen Ross, I jumped on it, goddamn you, Jeselnik.

• 35:10Anthony Jeselnik?

  That was the joke, and now it's time for.

• 35:12Speaker 01

  That, by the way, that's the only thing he'll clip from this show. That's the only thing he'll clip, and he'll put it everywhere, goddamn it. Anyway, go ahead.

• 35:20Anthony Jeselnik?

  Anyway, go buy Sam Tallent's Brute, buy it, read it, it is one of the best books of the year.

• 35:26Speaker 01

  It, I don't know, a lot of people did see this movie, it reminds me of a 2020 movie called Riders of Justice. Did you see that movie?

• 35:32Anthony Jeselnik?

  No.

• 35:33Speaker 01

  Starts off much like this, starts off literally like every Liam Neeson movie you have ever seen. Guy's family gets blown up on a subway, and he's the next special, okay, well, he's gonna go hunt down the guy. And it goes in every odd direction, none of which feels forced. It feels like, this is actually how a Liam Neeson movie would go in real life, this is how sloppily and badly it would go. It is one of the most brilliant action movies I've ever seen. It didn't get enough attention, because it's not, it gives you what you want, just not the way you think it's gonna happen.

• 36:05Anthony Jeselnik?

  Is it the one about coincidence?

• 36:06Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 36:07Anthony Jeselnik?

  It's not Liam Neeson, it's the other guy.

• 36:09Speaker 01

  No, it's Mads Mikkelsen is in it.

• 36:10Anthony Jeselnik?

  Mads Mikkelsen, yes. I have seen that, and it's incredible.

• 36:13Speaker 01

  But when I said Liam Neeson, I mean, the first five minutes are like, I've seen this movie, I get it, I know what's gonna happen, and then it absolutely doesn't happen. The opening of this book, as you're reading, you're like, okay, it's gonna hitman on his last, remember in the 90s when every other movie was hitman on his last job, oh my god, we accidentally ripped off the mafia, or how do we get rid of this dead body? It was one of those three plots. So he takes one of those three plots, and then works every new variation on it.

• 36:38Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yeah, just the most beautiful possible version of it, that, yeah, loved it, buy the book. Now it's time for, chapter four.

• 36:48Anthony Jeselnik?

  Chapter four, Patton, are you ready to enter the JBC gauntlet?

• 36:51Speaker 01

  I'm ready, baby.

• 36:52Anthony Jeselnik?

  All right, I'm gonna read you, I'm gonna say an opinion, you tell me what you think, these are not my opinions.

• 36:57Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 36:57Anthony Jeselnik?

  But tell me if you agree, disagree, and why. The end of reading is here, I'm sure you've read that article in The Atlantic. What do you think about that?

• 37:05Speaker 01

  I absolutely disagree. There has always been, I'm sure I could go back into the stacks of The Atlantic, and The Harper's, and New Yorker, and look at the end of cinema, the end of television, the end of reading, the end of, after 9/11, it was the end of comedy. I don't remember that, it was, satire's dead, and then literally The Onion came out with one of the best, literally the next week, like, no, you're wrong.

• 37:32Anthony Jeselnik?

  It was, I mean, it was, it was, it was quick, it was a quick turnaround.

• 37:34Speaker 01

  Exactly, but it was that way of, no, this, but, the saying, I just believe that nothing ever ends. I think that things mutate, I think, I think that things ebb and flow, there are low points of them. It does feel like, on some level, we are at a low point of reading, but at the same time, all these bookstores are thriving, I'm seeing all these new Instagram accounts from new independently owned bookstores that seem to be doing very, very well. So, I'm glad that somebody, I'm always happy when someone does an article like, "The end of reading is here," because then there's always a reaction against it.

• 38:08Anthony Jeselnik?

  I always feel like, and they talk about like, you know, people are getting dumbed down, people are, people are like, on their phones too much. I feel like opera and musicals would be the canary in the coal mine. They're gonna die before books. I think books are having a moment, I think it's a pendulum, I think it's coming back, I think people are getting sick of their phones, and getting sick of being sick of their phones.

• 38:32Speaker 01

  And also, they're realizing, oh, it's just the same 20 videos.

• 38:35Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yep.

• 38:36Speaker 01

  They're just variations on the same 20, okay.

• 38:38Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yeah.

• 38:38Speaker 01

  And in a way, we, with our phones, it's the same way of a parent going, oh, you wanna smoke a cigarette, here, have this whole pack, smoke it, and we, so we've done them, and we're like, okay, enough.

• 38:47Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yeah.

• 38:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:48Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yeah, cigarettes are good.

• 38:50Speaker 01

  My, my daughter and her friends read voraciously.

• 38:53Anthony Jeselnik?

  Good, I, yeah, I have friends with daughters like, insane, kids who are like, really into it. I hope like, the next generation just rejects it. But I think it just becomes the cool, like, what are people not doing, I'm gonna do that.

• 39:03Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 39:04Anthony Jeselnik?

  That, you just need to find, I think we need book aggregators, like, just like Book Club, to tell you what's out there, what's good.

• 39:11Speaker 01

  That's starting to happen, you know, and there's a lot of people that are, I will, I've always posted about like, books I like, and especially from small, I subscribe to a lot of small publishers, Transit Books, and Boilerhouse Press that put out like, more obscure titles, that you can really champion and go, hey, this.

• 39:32Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yeah, are you a fan of hard case crime?

• 39:33Speaker 01

  Yes, and I just, I just read, what is it, it's not, I'm No Angel, or The Cab Driver Noir.

• 39:42Speaker 01

  Did you read that one?

• 39:43Anthony Jeselnik?

  No.

• 39:43Speaker 01

  Nobody's Angel.

• 39:44Anthony Jeselnik?

  Nobody's Angel. I've heard of it. I haven't, I don't think I've got no one yet, but I will. I love an old, an old school noir.

• 39:51Speaker 01

  Except it's, except it's now. Where do you read it?

• 39:54Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yeah, I'm, I'm excited.

• 39:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 39:56Anthony Jeselnik?

  Uh, if you don't understand a word in a book, you should look it up.

• 39:59Speaker 01

  Um, sometimes, tha- that is one of the things that's kinda nice about, um, I saw the word halcyon and I was reading it on my, and I realized, I've seen that word a bunch of times and I'm not a hundred percent sure what it meant, so I hit look up definition. Um, but sometimes I think you can get it in context. I don't think you need to know every single word.

• 40:17Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yeah, I don't wanna stop my momentum. I just, I just pick it up and figure it out. And again, there are words that I'll ne- I'll never understand. I couldn't tell you what halcyon is right now, but if I saw it in a sentence, I would just be like, halcyon.

• 40:28Speaker 01

  I see it a lot.

• 40:29Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yeah.

• 40:29Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 40:30Anthony Jeselnik?

  There are some books that children should not read until they're older.

• 40:34Speaker 01

  I think anything that a kid is able to pick up and read and understand, I mean, if, if you're, if you're, if you're a good parent and you have a relationship with them, where they know they can come to you and talk to you about anything, then yeah, there, there's cer- I, I don't think that there's my mom, I, I was raised with this wonderful eighties suburban neglect where my mom meant well, but got me books I probably shouldn't have been reading, cause she didn't know any better.

• 40:59Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yeah.

• 41:00Speaker 01

  She bought me a book by Richard Brodigan called The Hawk Line Monster, cause she's like, ooh, it's the, it's a monster to me. And yeah, but it's, kids should not be reading this book. Um, but I loved it, you know? Look, I, I read this, I read The Stand when I was 11, cause look at the cover, it's a face, but then there's a crow, this is awesome, I have to read this. I didn't know books were this big. I gotta, what is this? So, you know, kids will find their way to read what they wanna read. I mean, just, just be open with them about, hey, talk to me about it in case this disturbs you.

• 41:31Anthony Jeselnik?

  It's the best way to misbehave, and if you see a movie, it might like scar you, but the reading, you get the context, where you either don't understand it and it can't hurt you, or you get enough context that you can internalize it better, that I think, I wouldn't like give a kid, you know, a horrible book, but if the kid finds it on their own, I'm, I think that's thrilling.

• 41:51Speaker 01

  I was trying to ease my dau- my daughter loves Stephen King, so I was trying to ease her into it by like, okay, well, I read her Eye of the Dragon, which is the kid's book, and then, you know, okay, let's, let's read some of the short stories. And then she went to summer camp, and I went, you can read The Shining. And at summer camp, another, one of the other kids had American Psycho. This was like, she was like 13, so she goes, I read American Psycho. I'm like, and? And then we talked about it, and I didn't like, don't you dare. I was just like, okay, let's talk about the book then.

• 42:17Anthony Jeselnik?

  I read American Psycho at 12, and it didn't mess me up at all. I'm fine. I read American Psycho because I read in Newsweek that like, there's this book that's being banned, and I was like, I gotta get that book.

• 42:27Speaker 01

  Well, then I, now I have to get my hands on it.

• 42:29Anthony Jeselnik?

  And then was obsessed with like, oh wow, uh, but it didn't mess me up at all. Um, you should be allowed to judge someone by their bookshelf.

• 42:39Speaker 01

  Oh, boy. That's a little, because, cause I get into that, I used to judge people by their DVD and VHS shelves, like what movies that they wanna own permanently.

• 42:50Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yeah.

• 42:50Speaker 01

  Um, I don't know, I mean, I, I, I don't know about the, I'm just so happy when people own books. What, what, I, I am more concerned with what John Waters says, which if you take someone home and they don't have any books on their shelves, don't fuck them.

• 43:05Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yeah.

• 43:06Speaker 01

  That's what concerns me more. And I've been in, I've been in like, very nice houses of people who are worth a lot, that I'm like, there's no books? Do you not have any books? Like, or are, I, I, it always blows me when people have made a certain level of money, and you're like, and you didn't use that to kick open hours every day where you can distribute, it just became a, pursuing more money?

• 43:31Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yeah.

• 43:32Speaker 01

  Like, that, that's always weirded me out.

• 43:33Anthony Jeselnik?

  Oh, the DV thing terrifies me, cause when I was younger, I would go through, I would have money or lose money, and I would, I would have to sell my DVDs.

• 43:41Speaker 01

  Constantly.

• 43:42Anthony Jeselnik?

  My DVD collection was just the ones they wouldn't buy. So if you came to my house, you were like, this guy loves Black Hawk Down and Zoolander.

• 43:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:50Anthony Jeselnik?

  That was like the only thing I had.

• 43:53Anthony Jeselnik?

  But I agree that it's like, it's more judging people not having books. But again, if it's like a certain kind of book, if it's all like World War II history, I'm like, ugh.

• 44:01Speaker 01

  And if it's also, if it's a lot of stuff like the, the four day week, or maximizing your, you know, all that kinda stuff.

• 44:07Anthony Jeselnik?

  Rich Dad, Poor Dad.

• 44:08Speaker 01

  That, yeah, that I'm like, mm, yeah, there's something, you're, you're, you're reading to get something. You, you think reading is transactional, and when I get done with a book, I should have a skill or have a, no, you just, you read a book.

• 44:20Anthony Jeselnik?

  Totally.

• 44:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:21Anthony Jeselnik?

  Star Trek and Star Wars are basically the same thing.

• 44:25Speaker 01

  Disagree. Star Trek, and I'm, I'm quoting a, uh, professor of Greek myth, and I'm blanking on her name, Star Trek is just our modern Greek myths. Star Wars, um, is the Joseph Campbell hero's journey. Star Wars is more about the internal, and Star War- Star Trek is more about where does our society, where do we go as people? She just said it this way, and I'm blanking on her name, I wish I could remember her name. Greek myths are about humans traveling to the edge of the known map, going into the unknown, fighting monsters, and then bringing back amazing magical items that make our lives better. Star Trek is, they go to the end of the known universe,

• 45:06Speaker 01

  go beyond it, battle monsters, bring back new technology, have new experiences that then advance us as a civilization.

• 45:11Anthony Jeselnik?

  That was amazing. I tried to rage bait you, and you batted it away like Captain Kirk with the lightsaber. Like, it was, that was incredible. Um, there were, there are some books that were only written to become movies.

• 45:25Speaker 01

  Oh, absolutely.

• 45:26Anthony Jeselnik?

  And how do you feel when you read a book like that?

• 45:28Speaker 01

  Um.

• 45:29Anthony Jeselnik?

  I get mad. I legit get mad.

• 45:32Speaker 01

  There, there's certain books, I'm like, this, I'll go, there are certain comic books now that, oh, this was a movie treatment, and they couldn't get it made as a movie, and now they're doing it as a comic book to then go back and get it made as a movie.

• 45:45Anthony Jeselnik?

  Mm-hmm.

• 45:46Speaker 01

  And there's a lot of those right now, a lot of those, even more, I think, than books. But there are certain,

• 45:53Speaker 01

  I'm not gonna name names, but there are certain books where, there are certain books where they, um, they describe, uh, the protagonist as the actor they would like in the role.

• 46:01Anthony Jeselnik?

  He was very Tom Cruise-like, yeah, cause he ran down the street.

• 46:04Speaker 01

  And we'll just leave it at that. And there's a lot of comics where the artist kind of sneakily draws the actor they'd like to have in that role.

• 46:13Anthony Jeselnik?

  Mm-hmm. I agree, and I, it always annoys me.

• 46:16Speaker 01

  Oh, drives me nuts.

• 46:17Anthony Jeselnik?

  It's lazy.

• 46:18Speaker 01

  Make, here's the thing, make a book that you're like, how are they gonna make this into a movie? That makes the movie more thrilling when they pull it off.

• 46:25Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yeah.

• 46:25Speaker 01

  Do you know what I mean?

• 46:26Anthony Jeselnik?

  Dumb it down a little bit to make it like a, more script-like.

• 46:29Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 46:29Anthony Jeselnik?

  And it's annoying.

• 46:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:30Anthony Jeselnik?

  Uh, performative reading is okay.

• 46:34Speaker 01

  It depends on what people are performatively reading. I mean, if you're reading, sometime, listen, sometimes performative reading, someone will start performatively reading, and then they will trip and actually get into reading, and realize, oh, actually, this is really, like, they were doing it to look cool, and they end up getting into the book. I'm totally cool with that. I, get people into reading any way they can, um, but, uh, also, I think performative reading for a lot of, for the most part, not for the most part, has gone down a lot, only because so many people read books on devices, so it's not like you can hold the cover up and go, look what I'm reading.

• 47:07Anthony Jeselnik?

  You see the hipster guy with like, you know, feminism is, I think, if you're reading, great.

• 47:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:13Anthony Jeselnik?

  I don't mind performative.

• 47:15Speaker 01

  I, I, what I always get a little suspicious of is the, the man or woman that has the jacket, and they have strategically have the book poking out of the pocket, that like, this is what I have for my downtime. And you're like, okay, Camus the rebel. All right, got it.

• 47:28Anthony Jeselnik?

  It's always Camus the rebel. Uh, last one, 99% of comedians' books are bad.

• 47:37Speaker 01

  Uh, 99% of the, I wouldn't say it's that high a percentage, but a big chunk of them, a big chunk of them are just their act transcribed.

• 47:47Anthony Jeselnik?

  Yeah.

• 47:47Speaker 01

  Rather than, hey, what was going on, you know, I, I tried very hard in my first memoir, which was a series of essays, to go, this is what's happening not on stage, and this is what's, you know, was going on in life. I think I did it way better in my second memoir, where I may, I, instead of doing a bunch of disconnected essays, I told one narrative. I was too nervous with my first book to commit to one narrative, so I kinda got that fear out of my system. There's a couple of chapters in my first book that I really, really liked, Ticket Booth and The Victory Tour, um, or the, or two that like, that's got close to what I wanna do. There's a lot of chaff in that first book. The second book is closer to, this is actually how I'm feeling, and, and me admitting to doing some really embarrassing

• 48:31Speaker 01

  douchey stuff as I was coming up as a comedian.

• 48:34Anthony Jeselnik?

  Do you have a favorite comedian's book that's not yours, that you think is like unsung? Like, everyone loves Born Standing Up by Steve Martin.

• 48:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. That's a really great one. Um, I, I mean, it, it's sung enough, I, I think it should be sung more, but Maria Bamford's, um, Sure I'll Join Your Cult is an incredible read for what she reveals. Talk about revealing absolutely everything about yourself. Um, I think that book is gonna end up being like the Velvet Underground's early albums. Um, I don't know how many copies it sold, but I think most people that read it will get the courage to pursue some form of art form. Not necessarily comedy, but just to go, oh, you know what, I can, I can do this thing that, that's an itch. I can do it.

• 49:19Anthony Jeselnik?

  I would say Sarah Silverman's The Bedwetter was that for me.

• 49:22Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 49:22Anthony Jeselnik?

  Kind of unsung, but great.

• 49:26Anthony Jeselnik?

  Thank you, Patton, for participating in the, uh, Justinic Book Club Gauntlet. That was amazing. I know you're short on time, so we're gonna jump right to the acknowledgements.

• 49:35Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 49:37Anthony Jeselnik?

  Uh, I have been told that you have given me a gift.

• 49:40Speaker 01

  I have given you a gift. I, um, speaking of, um, stuff that is going away, this is my, uh, fourth ghost box. You can please open it up. There was a publisher called Hingston and Olson, they're based up in Canada, they would do, um, short story advent calendars every year, and publish weird, out of the way, books, magazine articles as single books. They have just gone out of business, so these are the final, so they let me do a ghost box. I love their, uh, Christmas advent calendar. So, I go for Halloween, let me do a collection of short stories, uh, 13 of my favorite horror stories. Um, and so they formatted it, each one has its own little booklet with an illustration.

• 50:25Speaker 01

  These are all my favorite hard, both classic and new.

• 50:30Anthony Jeselnik?

  This is incredible.

• 50:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And this was, and the only ones that are remaining of this are now at a store in San Francisco called Coven, or Coven, if you're Mark Borkart from American Movie. And they are selling the very final ones, but this is a collection of what I think are amazing short stories.

• 50:49Anthony Jeselnik?

  That is a beautiful gift, a thoughtful gift. We've been putting these on the shelf behind me. I'm taking this home.

• 50:55Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 50:55Anthony Jeselnik?

  This is incredible and a great idea, and I can't believe I got one of the last ones.

• 50:58Speaker 01

  You got the, I will see if I can track down the first three, but they've become very, very rare.

• 51:03Anthony Jeselnik?

  And whoever on the staff had the idea to have guests bring me gifts, thank you again. I mean, nailed it.

• 51:08Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 51:09Anthony Jeselnik?

  Nailed it.

• 51:09Speaker 01

  I love getting to bring, yeah, you're gonna, hopefully people will bring more small press publishers so that you can also tout. I wish I could tout Hingston and Olson, they have gone out of business. They'll hopefully go do other things, but there's a lot of really cool small publishing houses coming up, doing amazing stuff.

• 51:26Anthony Jeselnik?

  Would you ever want to do a publishing shingle yourself, like where you control what gets published? That's like the new Vanity Project.

• 51:32Speaker 01

  Yeah. I would, I would rather have that in the hands of someone that has the time. I'm still so running around doing other things right now. I mean, I kind of do in that I'm doing creator-owned comic books, and I now have a small writer and artist-focused comic book convention that I do every year. The next one is November 7th at Revenge of in Eagle Rock, CreatorCon Block Party. It's just for the creators, just for the writers. That takes up so much of my time, and I know what it's like. I've seen people that run small presses, and it's, it is a 24-hour-a-day thing.

• 52:09Anthony Jeselnik?

  I'm sure.

• 52:10Speaker 01

  And I know I don't have the energy.

• 52:11Anthony Jeselnik?

  I know.

• 52:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:12Anthony Jeselnik?

  Reading unpublished stuff, it seems like it would be, you're buried under stuff.

• 52:15Speaker 01

  The slush pile would be insane.

• 52:16Anthony Jeselnik?

  You gotta be the guy who, you gotta be like, the buck stops with you, it seems a lot.

• 52:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:21Anthony Jeselnik?

  Anything else you would like to plug while you're here?

• 52:23Speaker 01

  I don't know when this drops, but wherever you are, you can watch my new special. It's on YouTube, Tea and Scotch. It's a whole, brand-new hour, and I'm on the road. Go to PattonOswald.com. I almost have my other new hour ready, so

• 52:37Anthony Jeselnik?

  Fantastic.

• 52:38Speaker 01

  Come see my dates.

• 52:39Anthony Jeselnik?

  Fantastic. And this is different than the audio-only that you put out, because I was fascinated by that. If we had more time, I would have asked about it.

• 52:45Speaker 01

  This is slightly different. There's some newer stuff. That was way more rougher and conversational. This is closer to a, like, stand-up special.

• 52:54Anthony Jeselnik?

  Cool.

• 52:54Speaker 01

  This is way more visual. But, yeah, you'll, again, you can go to YouTube and watch it. It's, it's getting great reviews.

• 53:02Anthony Jeselnik?

  Awesome. I will check that out. You go to PattonOswald.com for tour dates. Go to AnthonyJeselnik.com for, I assume, more expensive tour dates.

• 53:11Anthony Jeselnik?

  But Patton, again-

• 53:12Speaker 01

  Definitely more expensive.

• 53:12Anthony Jeselnik?

  Thank you for being here. To be continued. Next week, I will be sitting down with Isaac Fitzgerald to talk about a lot of different things. It's a great episode. We pre-taped it before this one. It's even better than this one, if you can believe it. But Get, Get Your Brute by Sam Tallent.

• 53:29Speaker 01

  Does he know I'm still sitting here?

• 53:30Anthony Jeselnik?

  TV is bad, movies are bad. Give me something else that's bad.

• 53:35Speaker 01

  Unfortunately, a lot of specials, stand-up specials that are on TV right now are bad only because they've made specials not special anymore, and they've done damage to a lot of, who could be great comedians by following an algorithm and giving them an hour when they don't have an hour ready. Please, please, let these young comedians have their years in the wilderness again. You are, you are, you're hamstringing a lot of what could be great careers.

• 54:03Anthony Jeselnik?

  We could name names. We don't have time for that.

• 54:06Speaker 01

  Nope.

• 54:06Anthony Jeselnik?

  Books are good. Read your books. Enjoy your books. Thank you for watching. We'll see you next week. Thank you again, Patton.

• 54:13Speaker 01

  Very welcome. Thanks, man.