The Baddest Bitch Bandit of the West w/ Vanessa Bayer & Jonah Bayer (Fraud Friday)

In this week’s Fraud Friday, Laci is joined by hilarious actor and writer siblings Vanessa and Jonah Bayer (How Did We Get Weird Podcast) to discuss Lady Bandit Pearl Hart, one of the wildest bandits in the Wild West. Plus, an investor attempted to purchase Manhattan’s iconic Flatiron Building for $190 million. Stay Schemin’! (Originally Released 04/17/2023) Follow on Instagram: Scam Goddess Pod: @scamgoddesspod Laci Mosley: @divalaci Vanessa Bayer: @vanessabayer Research by Kaelyn Brandt SOURCES: https://therealdeal.com/new-york/2023/03/24/meet-the-mysterious-buyer-of-the-flatiron-building/ https://time.com/4575757/pearl-hart-stagecoach-robber/ https://nypost.com/2021/10/30/the-wild-life-and-death-of-old-west-feminist-bandit-pearl-hart/ https://lithub.com/the-true-story-of-pearl-hart-straight-shooting-poetry-writing-woman-bandit/ Wildcat: The Untold Story of Pearl Hart, the Wild West’s Most Notorious Woman Bandit by John Boessenecker

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 0:30Speaker 01

  This January, bare-knuckle fighting championship takes over the ocean. The inaugural Brew's Crew sails from Miami to the Bahamas aboard the Norwegian Jewel. Three straight days with pool-deck bare-knuckle fights in the Caribbean. Mess of parties, beach events, DJs, cigars, tequila tastings, and non-stop action. The lineup reveals coming soon. Cabins are disappearing fast, and the prices won't stay this low. Reserve your spot with just $200 down at bkfsea.com.

• 1:00Speaker 02

  Buick knows confidence changes how you move through the world. That's why Buick designs SUVs with striking style, and was named the most dependable mass-market brand by J.D. Power. From the head-turning Buick En vista to the seven-passenger Enclave, experience the Buick SUV lineup at buick.com. Buick: Exceptional by Design. Buick received the few reported problems in its segment in the J.D. Power 2025-2026 U.S. Vehicle Dependability Studies, based on 2022-2023 models. For J.D. Power 2026 award information, visit jdpower.com/awards.

• 1:30Laci Mosley?

  What's poppin', congregation? It's your girl, Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess. Welcome to an episode of Fraud Fridays, where we release older episodes from the Scam Goddess Vault. That's right, Fraud Fridays is where we bring back your favorite episodes from behind the paywall. Enjoy this episode from behind the paywall, and as always, stay schemin'.

• 2:12Laci Mosley?

  What's poppin', congregation? It's your girl, Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess, back with another installment of Scam Goddess, the podcast all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it. I know y'all can tell my voice sounds a little different. Stop doing that weird stuff when I get sick, and y'all like, "Ooh, we like that." That's weird to me. Uh, but I have hay fever, y'all. It's not even COVID. I forgot the other girls are out here like pollen and ragweed, and they whooping my ass. My eyes are red. I feel terrible. But look, I'm still here 'cause I have a problem. All right, anyways, let's get back. Well, no, actually, let's keep it parasocial 'cause y'all already know I'm, yes, excited, extremely excited, elated even, for today's guests. We have two guests. Yes, double whammy for you. One of our guests is a writer,

• 2:56Laci Mosley?

  podcaster, and musician with two decades of experience in the music industry. Come on, season. And our other guest is a writer, actress, longstanding comedian, who's best known for killing it on Saturday Night Live, y'all. This sibling duo invites special guests to take a nostalgic look back at their fun but strange childhoods on their podcast called, How Did We Get Weird? Oh, yes. Check it out on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on iHeart Radio or wherever you get your podcasts. Congregation, please welcome Jonah and Vanessa Bayer. Hey, how are you two?

• 3:30Speaker 04

  We're doing good.

• 3:32Laci Mosley?

  How are you doing? Yes, I love to see it. I am, well, you know, the outdoors is beating my ass, so that's what I'm dealing with. But I like to think of it as like, I'm just like such a bad bitch that, you know, the sky gotta fight me and the wind.

• 3:43Speaker 04

  Right, right, right, right. That makes total, that's, yeah.

• 3:49Laci Mosley?

  Either that or that I would not have lived in the 1800s because my bitch ass, I would've been there extra early 'cause I needed modern medicine. So I'm at least class, I don't know, I was born at this time.

• 4:00Speaker 04

  Same, 100. I love modern medicine. I'm like, what, what were they doing back then? I don't know, I guess they died. They died a lot. Or leeches. They died or leeches.

• 4:10Laci Mosley?

  I also love that talk because I feel like anybody was saying they could be a healer. There's probably some people who were kind of naturally inclined to be good healers. And then there were other people who were like, I don't know, let's cut them and bleed them.

• 4:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, exactly.

• 4:21Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 4:22Laci Mosley?

  That sounds good. Y'all with it?

• 4:26Speaker 04

  That's what it's like living in LA now. It's like there's all kinds.

• 4:30Laci Mosley?

  Oh, yes. Everyone in LA. It's so funny because, you know, it's very liberal out here and people love to be like, "Well, I don't know why people don't believe in the vaccine." But then they also like to be like, "Have you ever chewed macarons to get rid of your acne?"

• 4:44Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 4:45Laci Mosley?

  Which is it?

• 4:46Speaker 04

  Which is it?

• 4:48Laci Mosley?

  We always ask on this podcast, "What is your relationship with scams?" It could be literally anything. Like, do you love them? Do you hate them? Have you ever been scammed? Have you ever run some scams that you know, like, uh, the 12 ain't gonna pull up on? You know, it could be anything.

• 5:01Speaker 04

  I would say-

• 5:01Laci Mosley?

  And either of them go-

• 5:02Speaker 04

  Jonah and I are both absolute scam artists. Jonah, do you want to?

• 5:06Laci Mosley?

  Yes. Okay, out the gate.

• 5:09Speaker 04

  Jonah, do you want to lead with your, I feel like we both, I have like an ongoing scam and Jonah has sort of like a scam from growing up that I feel like, um, has influenced his scamming today.

• 5:20Speaker 05

  Yes. I had a scam, I think we've talked about some on our podcast, but I had a scam at Borders Books and Music. Were you familiar with Borders, the chain?

• 5:28Laci Mosley?

  Yes, I am. Are they still alive or did they get Circus City?

• 5:32Speaker 05

  I think they're not still around and I think it may have had something to do with the scam.

• 5:37Speaker 04

  Other people may be doing it too. Yeah, or maybe just you, Jonah.

• 5:41Speaker 05

  When I was a teenager, me and my friend Dan figured out that, we were taught by, by someone else in St. Louis, a friend of ours who sadly passed away, taught us that you could go into Borders Books and return any book you wanted and get store credit, even if you didn't buy it there. You didn't need a receipt. And so, we started, we're really into like music and punk rock. We were probably around like 15, 16 years old. We'd go to Walden Books down the street, buy these really expensive hardcover books that were, you know, the manufacturer price was like 30 bucks. It'd be on sale for like $3. We'd spend like 20 bucks. And we'd go over to Borders and return them and get like a hundred, $150 in store credit. And they had a music section, so we would just buy CDs.

• 6:21Speaker 05

  So, and we would do this over and over and get all these CDs until one time we got caught because my friend's sister was working there. Oh, and I used a fake ID because I was so scared because they would enter in your ID info every time you did a return. And I was like thinking like somewhere at corporate Borders, they're gonna know I'm returning. Like, no way they ever cared.

• 6:42Laci Mosley?

  How old were you at the time?

• 6:44Speaker 05

  I would say, yeah, I was probably in high school.

• 6:47Laci Mosley?

  Wow, so you didn't use the fake ID to buy like beer? You were like, I'm using it to...

• 6:51Speaker 05

  You know what, actually, hold on, hold on, hold on. I think I'm getting the timeline wrong. I think I actually was in college sadly.

• 6:58Laci Mosley?

  That's worse.

• 6:58Speaker 05

  I think I was probably like 20.

• 7:01Laci Mosley?

  That's still not 21. So, everybody else is in the line at the club and you're in that line at the bookstore.

• 7:07Speaker 05

  Yeah, so, yeah, so, no, I definitely not in line at the club, definitely in line at like the, the, the import section of like the, Borders trying to get like Bell and Sebastian import CDs. And my friend Matt's sister was working one day, she was like a manager, and I was doing a return. And she came over and said, hi Jonah, and I had my ID out that said my name was Paul.

• 7:29Laci Mosley?

  She blew up the whole set.

• 7:32Speaker 05

  She gave me this, this is the best part of the story. She, she gave me this look like, why are you using a fake ID to return books? Like, this seems like you're up to something. And being, you know, a young person, I said, hold on a second, I have to get something out of my car. And I just left. Just left the books, didn't, and then my friend Matt, of course, her younger brother called me that night and said, what happened? My sister said you just like were acting weird, used a fake ID. And then when she asked you about it, you just walked out of the store and didn't come back.

• 8:00Laci Mosley?

  That is my favorite exit. It's so comedic to get caught and then just run away.

• 8:06Speaker 04

  Just turn and leave.

• 8:07Speaker 05

  It's such something a teenage or 20 year old like boy would do who just didn't know how to deal with like a situation.

• 8:14Speaker 04

  Someone in their twenties, Jonah.

• 8:15Speaker 05

  Yeah, actually, the story is less funny now that I realize maybe I was a little older.

• 8:20Laci Mosley?

  No, it's very funny to me. And honestly, and I think if you're in your twenties, you're still a baby. But I just, I would recommend this to adults today. I'm telling y'all. If you get caught and you know, you're not a good liar, just sprint away. Just sprint away.

• 8:33Speaker 05

  Sprint away. And so, yeah, then they kind of caught on and it ended. But I guess I've always felt this is a gray area with the scam. I'd like to get your thoughts because, you know, if you got a present as a gift during that point, you could just bring it back to Borders and return it. And then they would still sell it. You know, I wasn't actually going in and stealing anything. I was just getting store credit and you didn't need a receipt. So I don't, you know, I knew where the books came from, but I could have not known and just taken them there.

• 8:57Laci Mosley?

  Let me ask this. So does Borders, do they sell like older books? Did they sell anything that was, or was it like all fresh new?

• 9:06Speaker 05

  I think it was all fresh new, but I still think, I think that they resold these books as like part of their inventory. Cause then towards the end, they would like, they would look it up and they'd be like, we don't sell this book. We can't give you credit for it. Like, I think they kind of caught on.

• 9:20Laci Mosley?

  So that's interesting to me because if they made a coin off of it, then if you got store credit, right, depending on how much, because I guess like for some reason, we're like used books. I feel like if the book looks good, if it doesn't look like you took it in and like WrestleMania it and did like some of those elbow, you know, like you're stomping on it and shit, then like it's a book. Like I'm going to get the same value out of it as I would have if it was fresh. So.

• 9:44Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 9:45Laci Mosley?

  I'm on your side regardless, because scammer, fucking corporation. And you're a professional musician. So look, you were doing what you had to do to get where you needed to go.

• 9:52Speaker 05

  Yeah, I was getting research. I was learning about new influences, you know, and CDs were expensive back then. And like I said, I was getting imports. I couldn't afford that stuff. So, yeah, I mean, I think it, but then Borders did, did catch on and then they went out of business. So.

• 10:05Laci Mosley?

  But also your friend's sister, also a flag for me because sis, why were you hating? Like if you, if I see anybody I know coming to a place of business that I work at and they are like, they got a fake ID, they're doing some shit. I'm just gonna.

• 10:18Speaker 05

  Sure.

• 10:18Laci Mosley?

  Do my job and look the other way.

• 10:20Speaker 04

  It seems like she almost did that, Jonah, but you got freaked out, right?

• 10:24Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 10:24Speaker 04

  She said hi, right?

• 10:26Speaker 05

  No, well, she was curious why I was using a fake ID to return, probably like a book made for middle aged people. But I, I think that, um, I think it might've been on her part, just also just curiosity, like what, like, what are you doing? Maybe not you're doing something wrong, but this just doesn't seem like something a normal person would do. Like this isn't what, why people use fake IDs.

• 10:48Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, she could ask all them questions later.

• 10:50Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 10:50Speaker 05

  Fair enough.

• 10:51Laci Mosley?

  Hey, Paul. Good to see you, Paul.

• 10:56Speaker 04

  Yeah. And then when you have a private moment, like a week later, or whatever, she could call you and say like, so why were you going by Paul?

• 11:01Speaker 05

  Right, right, right, right, right.

• 11:04Laci Mosley?

  What, don't I know?

• 11:05Speaker 05

  Yeah. So, yeah. So, but that was sort of like my big scam. And this was a scam me and my friend Dan pulled for like a while, like a whole school year, I think, until they caught on. And so we got a lot of CDs and it was, it was just like, what do you want to do in the weekend? It's like, I guess we go to Walton Books, buy all these books, take them, the borders was like down the road. We just drive right over. And it was like,

• 11:25Laci Mosley?

  A coming of age story.

• 11:27Speaker 04

  A perfect scheme.

• 11:29Speaker 05

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 11:31Laci Mosley?

  That was a time where businesses were, they were more thirsty, you know, for our business. So they were like, oh, you can return, because Nordstrom's had a similar policy, which they don't anymore, where it was like, there was always this mythical story that someone returned a tire to Nordstrom's. But I do know for a fact that, uh, my boyfriend in college had a old, old ass North Bay jacket that he did not get at Nordstrom's. And he went to Nordstrom's and he returned it and like exchanged it and got a brand new jacket.

• 11:59Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 12:00Laci Mosley?

  So they were at the time doing that. And then when people started abusing it, they were like, all right, fuck this. They're like, screw these customers. Let's get everything we can out of them. Now you go into stores. They're like, what do you want, Ben? And hurry up.

• 12:11Speaker 05

  That's so interesting to me because going clothes shopping is like, Not fun for me at all. Like, it's not something I enjoy.

• 12:18Speaker 04

  Totally, totally.

• 12:21Speaker 05

  So then you're putting another barrier there, right?

• 12:23Speaker 04

  It's like, the last thing I want to do when I'm shopping is see anyone. I do like to shop, but I don't want to ever run into anyone I know. I just want to

• 12:31Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 12:31Speaker 04

  get through it.

• 12:32Speaker 05

  I just read an article about like in Brooklyn, like in Williamsburg and stuff, they have these like designer gyms now where it's like $3,000 a month and like you have to apply to get in and it's like kind of like a social thing. I think this is like the way kind of like, I don't know if it's social media or just media are going with like this exclusivity for people. And I do not like it for, for the record.

• 12:52Speaker 04

  No.

• 12:53Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, no. We've seen it too with the drops. Like, I love Beyonce, but those Ivy Park drops, I was like, sweetie, where is, where are the clothes? Like, where are they? I'm trying to give you my money Beyonce, like I always do, and I can't even find it.

• 13:06Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 13:06Laci Mosley?

  So it's, I, I want that to go away. Just let us enjoy things. The world is ending. So Vanessa, you are up at bed. What is your relationship with scams?

• 13:14Speaker 04

  Oh, I scam. I've been scamming since I was a kid, I'll say. I love to scam. Um, I, my current scam as an adult is that, um, you know, uh, it's, it's pretty particular to restaurants and it will be that when I'm eating at a restaurant and someone recognizes me from, usually from Saturday Night Live, but, uh, any of the projects I've done, I can kind of tell. Okay?

• 13:42Laci Mosley?

  Oh, yeah.

• 13:42Speaker 04

  Like, sometimes they'll say something, but sometimes I can just tell.

• 13:45Speaker 05

  How, how can you tell? Is it a certain, like, a certain?

• 13:47Laci Mosley?

  I feel like it's a stare. It's like constant looking.

• 13:50Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 13:50Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 13:51Speaker 04

  It's like sometimes people are just so nice to you in a way that you would, I would love to think, you know, that they're just being nice to me because they're in a great mood. It just, you just feel like this person's job is too hard there, for them to be so nice in this moment.

• 14:09Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, and I know you say you're not, that's not gross at all. I went to a restaurant and didn't even notice it recently. Where the server just like would not leave our table. Like she was like, they had those automatic like, uh, POS systems on their, like in their hands, where you can type in the menu, almost like on a phone or, or the order. And so she was like typing in the order there, standing there, would not leave, kept coming back and just standing there. And we were like, can we, we, we're gonna talk like.

• 14:35Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 14:38Laci Mosley?

  It felt very surveillance and none of, neither of us realized like, oh, maybe it was because she recognized you were me. It was very funny. So I don't think that's weird at all.

• 14:46Speaker 04

  Okay, okay. Well, so the next time this happens to you, Lacey, you should do my scam. Okay? So, once you realize that the server knows, that they know who you are, they like you. This is what you do. At the, well, you can do it earlier in the meal too, but it's especially to me, works on desserts. At the end of the meal, if they're like, what do you want for dessert? Okay, you say two things that you're between. So you say like, I'm between, you know, the chocolate cake and, um, the, the tiramisu. And you say, which one is better? Which one? This is, you know, they have to be pretty into you, but.

• 15:26Laci Mosley?

  You should cut that out.

• 15:28Speaker 04

  Okay, but, um, it's obviously too late. But, uh, they go, you go, which, which one do you like better? And they'll go, hmm, they'll go, I think go with the tiramisu. And you go like, uh, you go, great. Okay. We'll get the tiramisu. Cut to a few minutes later, they're bringing the desserts out and they brought you both. And they go, we, we brought you the tiramisu, but we also wanted you to try the chocolate cake because it's so good. So it's like giving, it's like, it's such a disgusting scam I do. But everybody who's worked with me at any point knows that I love free stuff. It's like my.

• 16:02Laci Mosley?

  If it's free, it's for me.

• 16:04Speaker 04

  It's the best. So that's how you get a free dessert. Now, do you have to pay for one dessert? Yes. Does it sometimes backfire? Because I've had this happen where I've been like, uh, then I'll be like.

• 16:18Speaker 04

  I really want both. I'm really counting on getting both desserts. So then they bring out, I go, I'll have the tiramisu and then they bring out the tiramisu and I'm like, and I guess we'll, we'll get the chocolate cake too.

• 16:31Laci Mosley?

  Like, damn it.

• 16:32Speaker 04

  But it generally works. It generally works. The moment you have a server who you think recognizes you, you should just ask them so many questions and say you're between a lot of things. It can work with the savory stuff you eat before dessert too. And then they'll generally bring you everything you asked about.

• 16:50Laci Mosley?

  I love this. I feel like there's a certain amount of engagement you have to do with the person too. Cause if you're like, oh, I'm just in between these two, they might be like, oh, well, that's great. I feel like, ah, ooh, okay. But how much cinnamon is on this one? And then is this spicy?

• 17:04Speaker 04

  That's the thing about us, Lacey, is we're performers. We have no problem.

• 17:09Speaker 05

  What I find so fascinating about this scam from a, and you know, I work in mental health, like from a psychology perspective is like you're, you're almost putting this idea in their head. So it seems like they thought of it. Like you're setting it up. So they're thinking, okay, Vanessa can't decide this and this. Oh, I want to do something. Oh, I'll put it. And so they think that they came up with it when in reality you almost like put it in their mind.

• 17:34Speaker 04

  Right, right, right, right.

• 17:36Speaker 05

  It's really, really interesting. It's a high level intellectual scam.

• 17:40Speaker 04

  Well, that's a very generous way of putting it. You could also say I'm very manipulative.

• 17:45Speaker 05

  That is another way of putting it.

• 17:47Laci Mosley?

  Look, it's not our fault. We're professional liars.

• 17:51Speaker 04

  I mean.

• 17:52Laci Mosley?

  That's literally what we do. We gotta be good at it. But, but this doesn't even feel that evil. It's not like the server's losing anything. I'm sure that they're asking the manager to write it off the check. We would do that kind of stuff all the time. Cause back in the day when I worked in restaurants, really, really famous people, like I used to wait on Paul McCartney all the time. Like he would call and ask for me. Yeah, and one time he was, when the season was over, this was in the Hamptons, he was like, Lacey, you know, you're really gonna rise up amongst the service. And I was like, Paul, I don't wanna be no, I don't wanna start for the rest of my life, though.

• 18:24Laci Mosley?

  But I'm sure I've said that at some point on this podcast years ago, but you know, like, you kind of learn the vibes or whatever.

• 18:30Speaker 04

  Yes, yes.

• 18:31Laci Mosley?

  I think this is great. Also, now I wanna add something on top of it and be like, I've heard such good things about this restaurant, so I just wanna make sure I order all the right things, cuz everybody was telling me it was so good.

• 18:42Speaker 04

  That's, that's, that's the way to do it. With all, I feel like with all the, those kinds of scams, it's, you gotta be so complimentary. I mean, I even do that when I try and return stuff past the return date.

• 18:54Laci Mosley?

  I was warming that up into a threat, though, cuz I was like, it's so good, and like, I recommend restaurants all the time, so I hoping, I'm hoping it's so good.

• 19:02Speaker 04

  Can I, can I give another scam that I, that I did recently, just cuz it just came to my mind? There's a very famous cookie company in New York, and I, I'm not gonna say what the name of it is, but it's gonna probably become pretty obvious. They're really big cookies, they look like scones. Anyway.

• 19:19Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, not too much, not too much, we'll keep it going, we'll keep it going.

• 19:22Speaker 04

  Right. So, I was in New York, I tried these cookies for the first time, there was a hair in one of my cookies. I messaged them on Instagram and I said, hey, there was a hair in one of my cookies, and I gave them the location of the store, and I was like, I just, I know this isn't how you guys run, I did exactly what you're talking about. I was like, I know you guys are such a like wonderful company, this isn't how you run your business, you know, so I just wouldn't want people like, and then I gave it, and then I gave a threat, and I said, I wouldn't, I just wouldn't want this to get out there.

• 19:50Speaker 04

  I think of myself as a nice person, I still kinda can't believe I did this, and so then, cuz I just wanted free.

• 19:56Laci Mosley?

  Be ashamed if somebody.

• 19:57Speaker 04

  I just said something like, yeah, I just don't want people to start thinking that you guys aren't that way. I didn't really specify that I would like tweet about it or anything, but I just, I did mess with it. Uh, so then, they wrote back, they were like, oh my god, we're so, so sorry, we'd love to send you a box of free cookies, like, just give us the address and like, you know, what flavor you want. So I think when I wrote back about the flavor, like, they could tell I was being too specific about the flavor. And I think that kind of caught on the like, now, there really was a hair in my cookie. I wasn't making that up. And it was disgusting. Did I eat around it? A little bit. Okay. But the point is that I, that I, that I kind of threatened to like post about them. They are, you know, I'm whatever. And then, and then they said they'd send me cookies. And then guess what?

• 20:43Speaker 04

  They never did it.

• 20:44Speaker 05

  Whoa.

• 20:46Laci Mosley?

  See, that's messed up because you actually did the nice thing and just DM them.

• 20:51Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 20:51Laci Mosley?

  Versus getting on Twitter and taking a picture of a cookie and be like, damn, I thought this was a nice cookie place. But they think I have a hairy ass motherfucker in the shed now all over the cookie.

• 20:59Speaker 04

  I know. Now they're opening a store in LA and I'm thinking about showing my Instagram exchange to them.

• 21:07Laci Mosley?

  Oh yeah, just go in the store and get you a hair free cookie. No, you deserve a hair free cookie.

• 21:11Speaker 04

  Well, I kind of want a whole box, but yeah.

• 21:14Speaker 05

  Vanessa actually also did another cookie scam where in New York, this is a more lighthearted scam.

• 21:18Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 21:19Speaker 05

  Where we would go into like a

• 21:21Speaker 04

  Bodega or something.

• 21:22Speaker 05

  A bodega together or something and Vanessa would want cookies and I wasn't really into desserts so much, especially at that point in my life when we were living in New York. And she'd be like, Jonah, you really want a cookie? Jonah, we're gonna get you this. Like basically was trying to use me.

• 21:35Speaker 04

  I'd be like, Jonah, you want to get three cookies? That's a lot. And they would all be for me.

• 21:40Laci Mosley?

  I feel like you do need to bring Jonah because it's, it's kind of weird if it's just like you pop up with this DM. But if you're like walking, he walks in first, you're kind of scragglin' behind him. And then when he's ordering, you're like, oh, nothing for me. Remember those DMs I had with this company? Oh, can't even believe we're in here. And then they're, then they'll be like, what, what, what happened?

• 21:59Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 21:59Laci Mosley?

  And then you can show it. Why am I, I'm invested in this. I want this to happen. I'll, I'll be your lackey. I live in LA. I'll come in, be like, no, girl, I know your last experience was so bad, but this was gonna be good.

• 22:11Speaker 04

  Yes, that's what I need. That we'll put on a full show and we'll get lots of free cookies.

• 22:16Speaker 05

  And you know, another way to get free stuff, Lacey, and I don't know if this is, this isn't really a scam, but sometimes I'll write companies and just tell them, I like your product.

• 22:23Speaker 04

  Yes, you do do that.

• 22:24Speaker 05

  There's like a pickle company I really like in Massachusetts and I just wrote them an email. I was like, I really like these pickles. They just sent me a coupon for a free jar of pickles. And then I lost it, didn't use it for a year, wrote them back and was like, I lost this coupon. It expired. Can you send me a new one? And they never wrote me back, but sent me a new one. And I used it.

• 22:44Laci Mosley?

  That's really sweet. Cause I was gonna say, we in inflation. I feel like a lot of companies now would be like, thanks.

• 22:49Speaker 05

  Yeah, I know, I know. You know what? You'll sometimes get a form email that's like, thank you for the kind words to our product. You know, when they're, and you know, they know, you know, like this is just like a really nice rejection letter. Like, it's not gonna work with us.

• 23:04Speaker 04

  Trying to do, yeah.

• 23:05Speaker 05

  But once in a while, once in a while, you send some positivity out there, it comes right back to you.

• 23:09Laci Mosley?

  I love that.

• 23:16Laci Mosley?

  And speaking of positivity, or maybe negativity, we don't know yet. Uh, it's time for what's hot in fraud. This is where we warn our listeners about popping scams in the zeitgeist. Or more often than not, we get a letter from you all. It's always snitch on your friends, family and your enemies. At [email protected]. Just make sure the scam is retired because we don't want to what? Yes. Fuck up your bag. Amen. Uh, so from you two, Vanessa, Jonah, I just need a fake name. Gender doesn't matter. Um, we don't, it's a construct. So a fake name, it could be anything for this letter.

• 23:53Speaker 04

  Um, Darla.

• 23:55Laci Mosley?

  Oh, I like Darla. You never meet any Darlas anymore.

• 23:58Speaker 04

  I know. That's why I kind of thought of it.

• 24:01Laci Mosley?

  If you're pregnant right now, consider Darla.

• 24:04Speaker 04

  Yeah, it does sound like that.

• 24:07Laci Mosley?

  No, now you have to tell me, if you're pregnant, listening, like, please name your baby what we asked.

• 24:12Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 24:13Laci Mosley?

  So the scam, Darla says, big corporations are a scam and we all know it, but which ones make us get assaulted? Then do nothing about it. Upside down smiley face. Oh no, not y'all's getting beat up. Oh lordy. So when I worked at a corporation as a manager, I had to help customers stock and everything like that. But where it gets shitty is when a customer walks in and starts stealing something, the corporation makes the manager. Stay with them the entire time in parentheses to see what they steal, get a good description of them and what their getaway vehicle looks like, et cetera. I don't mind the people who steal from the store because get your coin, girl, and fuck corporations. I know that's right.

• 24:55Laci Mosley?

  Also, like, why are they trying to make you Detective Benson? Like, why do you have to do, do, do, no, do? Why you doing criminal intent? No, that's not your job description. Like, if I went to a meeting and they were like, hey, so we're, what do they call it? Interviews?

• 25:11Laci Mosley?

  I was gonna call it an audition, and I was like, no, it's meeting. And then I was like, that's not it either. Uh, but if I went into an interview and they were like, hey, so you look like great management material. Um, how are your hands? Are you a strong fighter? Like, that's not only the interview for Waffle House.

• 25:26Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 25:26Laci Mosley?

  But anywhere else.

• 25:28Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 25:28Laci Mosley?

  Like, girl, this is a Sephora. Like, I'm not keeping a knife on me.

• 25:32Speaker 04

  Right. Feels weird.

• 25:34Laci Mosley?

  Feels very weird.

• 25:35Speaker 04

  Extreme.

• 25:36Laci Mosley?

  Have either of you worked in retail?

• 25:38Speaker 05

  Yes, I, I have, and I worked at, at Kids R Us when I was in high school. And we did an episode about, about it. And yeah, we would have to be on the lookout for people. And sometimes there would be people and I, yeah, I didn't really care.

• 25:52Laci Mosley?

  Do you do stuff at Kids R Us? Or is it like Toys R Us and they just sell toys?

• 25:56Speaker 05

  They sell kids clothes.

• 25:58Laci Mosley?

  Oh.

• 25:58Speaker 05

  They sell clothes, but yeah, sometimes it would happen, but it was also like very specific rules on like what you couldn't, you weren't allowed to chase anyone. You weren't allowed, you know, I was also like in high school, so I didn't really, it didn't happen that much at our store, but it, that feels like that should be a different job, right? Like.

• 26:14Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 26:14Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 26:15Laci Mosley?

  It feels like you're too cheap to hire security.

• 26:17Speaker 05

  Right, right.

• 26:18Laci Mosley?

  I work at a, what's the bootleg Abercrombie? Um, airport style. I worked at airport style in college for maybe like two weeks. Because, honey, I'm very disorganized and I'm not good at folding clothes. I was just there on vibes and personality. And I remember my manager, she was like, yeah, if like people come in, there's these rings, these stuff rings of people stealing. If they come in, like, this is what we do. And she was like, when I worked at Rainbow, like, I would chase the girls out to the parking lot and get the stuff back. And I say, miss, you were risking your life for a rainbow?

• 26:50Speaker 04

  Yes, yes, that's, yes.

• 26:53Laci Mosley?

  I'm not risking my life for Gucci. I'm definitely not risking it for a rainbow.

• 26:56Speaker 04

  Yeah, a hundred percent.

• 26:57Speaker 05

  And I worked at another place where after I left, I found out the managers were actually stealing from, from the, from the store.

• 27:04Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 27:04Speaker 05

  They, they had their own scam going. And so it's like, yeah, I, I don't know. You got, I, what am I supposed to keep my eye on? Everyone works there. You know, it's just too much. It's like, I'm trying to get in.

• 27:14Speaker 04

  For you to have to do the chasing feels.

• 27:16Speaker 05

  And then, you know, and, and the other thing about working at Kids' R Us was they would check our bags every night when we left work. Which, you know, looking back feels like a little, that's pretty like.

• 27:26Laci Mosley?

  Invasion of privacy.

• 27:27Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 27:27Speaker 04

  Also, if you are stealing kids' clothing, you probably need it for your kid. Like, let those, I don't know.

• 27:34Speaker 05

  Yeah, I would also, I was like a 16 year old kid with like, uh, Jinko's, like, it's like piercings, like, I, like, the last thing I wanted was like, the overalls for like a six year old kid. Like, I was just working there because all my friends work there. It's the only place that would hire us.

• 27:46Laci Mosley?

  And if I do want baby overalls, I'm gonna stick them in my pants. So, I'm getting away with it.

• 27:51Speaker 04

  Yeah, we're, you think we're gonna put it in our bags, you idiots?

• 27:56Laci Mosley?

  Could give up and stuff my bra with it. What are you talking about? I'll, I'll find a way to steal if I really want to, so there's no reason to check me.

• 28:04Speaker 05

  But yeah, I understand this concern. I mean, I, I get, you know, loss prevention. I get like, they probably lose a lot of money, the corporation. But yeah, I agree. It shouldn't be on the employees.

• 28:12Laci Mosley?

  And they have insurance and like, they, they specifically budget for theft. So, it's really not our responsibility.

• 28:19Speaker 05

  And like you're saying, can be really dangerous. And it's like, you know, you don't want to put someone in a position where they could, you know, get hurt.

• 28:24Laci Mosley?

  Yeah. So Darla says, I don't mind people who steal from corporations, right? Because fuck them. But one time, people were stealing and I stayed with them. I was silent the whole time. I didn't provoke them or anything. Then they physically assaulted me. Yeah, we did a police report and I filed a complaint to the company about how they should lock up their highly stolen goods or even get a security guard. But surprise, they did nothing. All they care about is what they can fit on their shelves to make a profit. Every day around the country, this company has their associates take the abuse from people stealing and no one does anything. I feel bad for anyone who works for them. Also, they make like $12 an hour, which is not enough. So Darla, I want to say, one, thank you for writing in this letter.

• 29:06Laci Mosley?

  Two, Darla, baby girl, that was a lawsuit right there. You had, you had a clean ass lawsuit. You filed a police report. You had specific instructions to follow this person around the store. You didn't provoke the situation. That's the liability of the company. I don't know how long ago this happened, but you might want to call Brian LaCarre or just drive around in your car and, and get an avocado, girl, because they on the benches, they on the, um, you know, they on the billboards. Just drive around in your, spin the block in your car and, and get yourself an avocado, get a lawyer, because this is open and shut.

• 29:38Speaker 04

  Yes, 100%. She's in the right, or he, Darla, is in the right. And should absolutely sue if, if it wasn't too long ago to do that.

• 29:50Laci Mosley?

  They have a strong case. I'm like, Darla, for real, I'll be your lawyer. I got an Annalise Keating Bob right now. Okay, let's go.

• 29:57Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 29:57Speaker 05

  And Darla, if you want to reach out to me, Vanessa, privately, we have a segment on our podcast called CEO Takedown. So if you want to let us know who this corporation is, we'll take down their CEO.

• 30:06Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 30:07Laci Mosley?

  Oh, yes. But also, this policy normally in retail has been revoked. But that's why they instruct us specifically not to pursue because it would be a liability on the store. So, yeah, Darla, if they're still doing this to this day, they still open for business? Oh, yeah, Darla, get your coins.

• 30:23Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, you got to get someone to even get a razor. It's CVS that keep that thing locked up. You know, like, if this is really high-end stuff, they should have a system for it, not, not put the employees in danger.

• 30:32Laci Mosley?

  Yes. And, and what, what do they think would happen if someone is following someone who's obviously stealing around a store? Like, yeah, that feels like-

• 30:40Speaker 05

  I guess they think it's a deterrent, but you know that, you know that, that it's total joke.

• 30:45Speaker 04

  It's a total joke.

• 30:47Laci Mosley?

  It is, and as a black person who gets followed around stores a lot, I would say it's also just fucking weird.

• 30:53Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 30:53Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 30:54Laci Mosley?

  Like, what if you're not stealing, you're just picking up small items, and then they're just following you around? They do that all the time. I'm very cognizant of it. Like, I'll get a basket, or I'll make sure my hands are free, and my bag isn't close to what I'm holding. Like, there's so many things that we all do to avoid the harassment that comes with being black. I'm like, la la la, I'm here. Oh, wow, can't wait to purchase with monies.

• 31:19Laci Mosley?

  So, yeah, sorry about that, Darla, but Darla, you got a case, girl. Let's go.

• 31:24Speaker 04

  I also really want to know who, what this corporation is, but I, maybe we can talk about it later, just so I...

• 31:29Laci Mosley?

  Yes, Darla, you gotta snitch on them privately. You won't put it on the air.

• 31:32Speaker 04

  Oh, she never said, right, that's right. Or Darla never said.

• 31:35Laci Mosley?

  Darla wasn't taking no risks, but I'm like, Darla, you, why are you scared of them? You don't work there no more.

• 31:41Laci Mosley?

  We're really trying to get Darla to get this.

• 31:43Speaker 04

  Come on, Darla. You gotta go, maybe take a little bit of time, hire a great attorney, or, you know, see.

• 31:50Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, there's gotta be a statute of limitations. I feel like we're good here. How much, uh, law school do you need to represent somebody? Darla, I'm trying to represent you. I feel like I could get this done. I've seen lots of Law & Order.

• 32:02Speaker 04

  Could Darla go to a small claims court? And then...

• 32:07Laci Mosley?

  You wanted to go to Judge Judy?

• 32:10Speaker 05

  I don't know if this is exactly small claims. I think that's more like...

• 32:15Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's right. Because I was gonna say that you could go with her to a small claims court, and be sort of not her attorney per se, but kind of her, you know, support.

• 32:28Laci Mosley?

  No, I'm trying to be the attorney so I can make some money too.

• 32:31Speaker 04

  Then I think...

• 32:32Laci Mosley?

  Also, this is not a small claim. That's like $5,000 or less. I feel like Darla could get the bag here.

• 32:36Speaker 04

  This is a, this is a big job for a big attorney, and I think that attorney is you.

• 32:44Laci Mosley?

  I agree with that, so I heart agree.

• 32:51Laci Mosley?

  And it's time for Historic Hoodwings. This is where I'm gonna regale Jonah and Vanessa with a famous con caper group of criminals. We don't know yet and we're gonna get their opinions all throughout. There is a content warning up top. There are some mentions of domestic abuse and there is a brief mention of animal abuse, uh, suicide and addiction. Uh, as you all know on this podcast, we keep it light, so these things will be handled with care, but we don't want to upset anyone, cuz this is a fun show. Alright. So, today we're talking about the Lady Bandit Pearl Hart. She was known as one of the wildest bandits in the Wild West. She owned a wildcat as a pet, smoked cigars, wore men's trousers and carried around a pair of Colt revolvers.

• 33:35Laci Mosley?

  Whether she was the first or last woman to rob a stagecoast, Pearl was one of the most infamous lady criminals of, and she's like a western legend. So, this is Lady Pearl. Oh, yes. It's giving baddie. And look at the pose. She was like, "Yeah, I'm Lady Pearl." How long did it take to take this photo? It was 1871. I feel like she had to sit there for a good three hours, right?

• 33:58Speaker 04

  Yes. Probably, yeah. It probably took a long time. Time. This is a pretty clear photo for that time in history.

• 34:05Laci Mosley?

  And she was like, "I don't care. I'll sit here like this all day cuz you gonna take that, take that. You gonna get this pose."

• 34:11Speaker 04

  I just wanna really quickly say, she had a wildcat as a pet. Isn't that sort of the same as having, is that the same as having, like a-

• 34:21Laci Mosley?

  A bobcat?

• 34:22Speaker 04

  Yeah, like, or, or, or like even like a small tiger or something? Like, is it?

• 34:27Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 34:27Speaker 04

  Why? Just because she's tough? How does the wildcat know not to attack? I guess she-

• 34:34Laci Mosley?

  It felt her energy.

• 34:35Speaker 04

  It felt her energy. Okay, okay.

• 34:37Laci Mosley?

  Her bad bitch energy and was like, "Oh, no, I'll eat everybody else, but, but not lady."

• 34:42Speaker 04

  I don't know that. I, I think the author of this ma- made that up to make her seem tough.

• 34:47Laci Mosley?

  Right. Just sprinkled it in. I was like, "Why not?"

• 34:49Speaker 04

  Because that doesn't-

• 34:50Laci Mosley?

  She also owned a lion.

• 34:51Speaker 04

  Yeah, exactly, exactly. It's like, we get it. You don't, she doesn't have to own a wildcat. Sorry, I'm getting mad at the author. Okay?

• 35:00Laci Mosley?

  We get it. You don't have to add anything else. No, I like it. She, she has scissors for hands. That's a movie. Pearl Heart was born Lily Naomi Davy on April nineteenth, eighteen seventy-one, in the lumber community of Lindsay in Ontario, Canada. Wow, she's a badass Canadian. They don't look nice. Also, I love when people change their names. That's the mark of a criminal for me. Change both. So her father, Albert Davy, was a violent alcoholic who likely abused his wife and daughters. Neither Albert nor his wife Anna Davy could read nor write. Compounded by having a household of nine children, the family struggled to make ends meet. Ooh, they couldn't read or write, but they definitely was, uh, sexist.

• 35:44Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 35:45Laci Mosley?

  They knew how to do that.

• 35:45Speaker 04

  Nine. Oh, my God.

• 35:48Laci Mosley?

  Yikes. So Albert even once served fifteen days in jail for kicking Anna and the children out of the family home and forcing them to live on the street begging for food. Albert is a nasty man.

• 35:58Speaker 04

  I hate him.

• 36:01Laci Mosley?

  I love how quickly Vanessa forces. I mean, this one is easy. This is a layup.

• 36:06Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 36:06Laci Mosley?

  But the, but the cat thing was also like, she was like, she had it. Lies. So Lily, along with her other siblings, resorted to petty crime for survival and were routinely housed in juvenile detention facilities. I didn't know in the eighteen hundreds, they had juvenile detention facilities.

• 36:23Speaker 04

  No.

• 36:24Laci Mosley?

  Boy, this country, or this is Canada, but you know, the world, they love some jail. They're like, what are we gonna do? Invent fire and then a little cage to put people in next. And then the wheel.

• 36:37Speaker 04

  Right.

• 36:40Laci Mosley?

  I feel like there should have been higher priorities at this time than like little jails, little baby jails. So Lily's brothers, including the toddler, went on minor thefts sprees while Lily and her sisters worked as prostitutes. The toddler was doing thefts. Okay.

• 36:58Speaker 05

  What kind of crimes is a toddler doing?

• 37:01Laci Mosley?

  Toddlers are fast.

• 37:02Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 37:05Laci Mosley?

  They got little hands.

• 37:06Speaker 04

  I bet the toddler is being helped by an older kid who is like, um, have you, this is a great scam they could do. Have you seen my little brother? He is going, walking up the street. And then when the person turns around, you just grab their wallet and then you go, oh, whatever the brother's name is. Let's say it's Timmy. Timmy, you know, go, let's go. I gave you a full impression of what I think they did. We didn't need. Start to finish.

• 37:30Laci Mosley?

  It's a good one.

• 37:31Speaker 04

  Thank you so much. Thank you so much.

• 37:33Laci Mosley?

  I was thinking little baby Timmy was out on his own, just pickpocketing it with his little baby hands. But that's very cartoonish, which you presented works.

• 37:40Speaker 04

  You gotta, Timmy's the distraction. The toddler, the toddler Timmy.

• 37:46Laci Mosley?

  And he knows how to do his job.

• 37:47Speaker 04

  Yeah. And what, wait, wait, till you see what kind of nightmare he turned into. Or a smart scam artist. But they, two things can be true. Okay, go ahead.

• 37:56Laci Mosley?

  Two things can be true.

• 37:57Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 37:58Laci Mosley?

  And at some point, the family moved to the United States. Well, because I mean, if you're gonna be scamming, you gotta come to the land of the scammers. That was an upgrade. That's where your real work is. You know how people have to move to other countries is like, there's just a bigger industry.

• 38:12Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 38:13Laci Mosley?

  In Hollywood. There was a bigger scam industry in the US.

• 38:16Speaker 04

  You can't scam in Canada. You gotta come to the US if you want to be a real scam artist. That's where all the garbage people live.

• 38:21Laci Mosley?

  Hey, you can really do some crime over here. Let Timmy go clean the fuck up, okay? We love to see it. So they moved when Lily was 15. She tried and failed to marry a 36-year-old carpenter from New York. Well, I'm glad that that failed.

• 38:34Speaker 04

  Me too.

• 38:35Laci Mosley?

  Oh, wait, it says, though that marriage failed, so I guess they did get married.

• 38:39Speaker 04

  Oh, my God. This is insane.

• 38:42Laci Mosley?

  Or maybe though the marriage failed, like the marriage attempt. So though the marriage attempt, we'll say that.

• 38:47Speaker 04

  This writer is like not like doing their best because first they throw in the wildcat thing, aren't gonna explain it. They're just gonna, she had a wildcat. Don't worry about it. It's like, mm, I'm gonna worry about it.

• 38:58Laci Mosley?

  No, it's cool. Maybe it comes back.

• 39:00Speaker 04

  Says the marriage failed. Did they get married or didn't they? That's not great.

• 39:03Laci Mosley?

  She tried and failed to get.

• 39:06Speaker 04

  Failed to get married.

• 39:08Laci Mosley?

  Is that like every breakup I've ever had? Yeah, I tried to get married to him, but uh, but we failed.

• 39:14Speaker 04

  Failed usually means there was a marriage.

• 39:17Laci Mosley?

  No, I'm gonna say that now.

• 39:19Speaker 05

  Maybe they were getting married and then they had toddler Timmy be a distraction and then look over there and then she just took off.

• 39:25Speaker 04

  Right, right.

• 39:26Laci Mosley?

  Timmy's always somehow involved.

• 39:27Speaker 04

  But also, like, I also like your idea, Lacey, that anytime you, you have a breakup, you go, the marriage failed.

• 39:34Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, the marriage failed. I try, I was trying, we were both trying for marriage and it failed.

• 39:38Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 39:38Laci Mosley?

  Because I mean, isn't that essentially what it is?

• 39:40Speaker 04

  That is what it is.

• 39:41Laci Mosley?

  And you're trying for marriage? Y'all try that. Get out there and really devastate the girls and be like, oh, my marriage failed.

• 39:47Speaker 04

  It's like when someone lived in, uh, like studied in a foreign country for three weeks and they, and they talk about when they lived there.

• 39:55Laci Mosley?

  Yes, and I'm guilty of that. I was there for three and a half months. But I can be like, when I lived in London, bitch, I didn't live there. I was alive there at the time.

• 40:02Speaker 04

  You lived in London and then when you left, your marriage failed.

• 40:05Laci Mosley?

  Yes, my attempted marriage failed.

• 40:08Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 40:09Laci Mosley?

  This.

• 40:09Speaker 04

  What do we need to use every single word? What, you know, who's fine?

• 40:13Laci Mosley?

  No, okay, come on. The internet now, they be using like three letters to represent three words.

• 40:18Speaker 04

  Oh, my gosh. That, let me say about those. I gotta always look them up. I never know. When there's three words, I'm like, what will do? Like, I don't ever know.

• 40:29Laci Mosley?

  I have a need to be cool, so I stare at it for a while in context and then I get it. And then I just start using it myself, like, be for real. And it just be like, B F R.

• 40:37Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 40:38Laci Mosley?

  And then lots of Rs if it's like, you real man.

• 40:41Speaker 05

  Yeah, I feel like it's the worst is when you look it up and then something so obvious. That you just could not figure out.

• 40:48Speaker 04

  It's kind of devastating to be like, I couldn't get it.

• 40:51Laci Mosley?

  In, in like black language, they're never obvious unless you're black.

• 40:55Speaker 04

  Really?

• 40:55Laci Mosley?

  Like, people don't just be saying, be for real.

• 40:57Speaker 04

  Right, right, right.

• 40:58Laci Mosley?

  So if you start BF, you'd be like, boyfriend? I don't know what this is. Oh, be for real. I got it. And then I start using it like I knew the whole time.

• 41:05Speaker 04

  Right, right.

• 41:08Laci Mosley?

  But like, F F S is like, for fuck's sake.

• 41:10Speaker 04

  Yeah, I would never get that. I, I mean, I, S M H, I have looked up so many times now. I know it's shaking my head, but I used to think it, I was like, I don't know what this means.

• 41:20Laci Mosley?

  That's what I.

• 41:21Speaker 04

  I L Y.

• 41:23Laci Mosley?

  Now, that one's a general.

• 41:25Speaker 04

  Yes, yeah, yeah.

• 41:27Laci Mosley?

  I love you.

• 41:28Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 41:28Laci Mosley?

  Oh, if you don't know any of these out there, go get, start using them now, like you always knew. And then gaslight your friends when they're like, use it in the group chat. And then your friends like, what are you saying? Be like, you don't, you don't, you don't get on Twitter. You're not hip. You know what I mean? Now you're hip.

• 41:42Speaker 04

  It would be fun to just make a bunch, yeah, to just make them up and see who can follow.

• 41:47Laci Mosley?

  Ooh, I want to make one up. I'm gonna try it.

• 41:51Laci Mosley?

  So, um, even though her attempted marriage failed, Lily, who is our Pearl Heart, but we're going by her, uh, given name right now.

• 41:58Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 41:59Laci Mosley?

  Lily would go on to have many husbands, sometimes officially wedded, sometimes not, often under a different name. Eventually Lily and her sister Katie ran away from home to get away from their father, which, uh, good on y'all, cause he was trash. They cut their hair short and donned men's clothing to escape detection and attention on the road.

• 42:19Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 42:20Laci Mosley?

  I like it. So Lily even got her name Pearl Heart. It was from a madam that she worked under in Buffalo, New York. So this isn't even like a name she made up. She just stole somebody's name.

• 42:29Speaker 04

  Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow. Okay, okay.

• 42:34Laci Mosley?

  One of them's like Vanessa Bayer, that's such a beautiful name. And then like you see me in a few weeks, I'm like, hey, I'm Vanessa Bayer.

• 42:40Speaker 04

  Did do that. My manager sent me an article once, God, in some other country, this woman got arrested and she said her name was Vanessa Bayer. And I don't know if it had to do, but like my managers were like, this is this weird thing that happened. It's, I think it's fine. Like we talked to like your lawyer about, like it's not, but it was, I, I bet I could find it. It was so weird.

• 43:02Speaker 05

  I didn't know about that. I would like, I would like to see that.

• 43:04Speaker 04

  I think I must've been still on SNL. I was probably pretty busy when it happened and I just sort of was like, okay, if it's fine, it's fine. But yeah, somebody did that. Somebody did that once.

• 43:13Laci Mosley?

  You tried to leave the country, your passports revoked.

• 43:15Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, it was, it was kinda like, what's going on here? Yeah, exactly. But I also, it could've just been a random name that they picked. I can't remember what country it was in, but yeah, anyway.

• 43:26Laci Mosley?

  Wild. I, I love that for them a little bit. I mean, only because nothing happened to you.

• 43:30Speaker 04

  Lacey, do you know that I have a show called I Love That For You?

• 43:33Laci Mosley?

  Oh, yeah.

• 43:34Speaker 04

  And you, I was listening to some of your other episodes and I love that you say that phrase so much.

• 43:39Laci Mosley?

  Yes.

• 43:40Speaker 04

  It's the best phrase.

• 43:42Laci Mosley?

  I love that you say that phrase. I love that for you.

• 43:45Speaker 04

  That for you, that you say that phrase. Because it's really, also, cause I'll tell you this, we really went back and forth between I love this for you and I love that for you. And obviously the one that gets used the most is I love that for you, because this has to be so specific, like.

• 44:01Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, you guys made a great choice. You made the right choice. Y'all hit it. Y'all got it with that one because. And but and I also love, I love that for you because it can genuinely mean like, oh, that's great, like go off, or it could be like, I love that for you.

• 44:14Speaker 04

  Yes, it can be very passive aggressive, totally, totally.

• 44:17Speaker 05

  I say it more like I L T F Y. And then people don't know.

• 44:22Speaker 04

  Cool, Jonah.

• 44:24Laci Mosley?

  That's our new one. We have to all start using it at once, over and over and over again.

• 44:28Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 44:29Laci Mosley?

  Uh, until we can get everyone to conform. So Pearl Heart went on to travel across the country with a variety of smaller criminals and delinquents, including Charles Dean, a streetcar breakman by day and a burglar by night. That sounds like, I love that so much because, yeah, you, you have a day profession and then burglary obviously is something you should be doing at night. So that's a great night job.

• 44:51Speaker 04

  Yes, yes.

• 44:53Laci Mosley?

  And I love that they call them smaller criminals as if she's like an A-list criminal and they're just like.

• 44:57Speaker 04

  I know. Are they just smaller in the sense that they just burglar and they don't fake their identities? It's like, who's to say, I guess?

• 45:05Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, what's a little home invasion?

• 45:07Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 45:08Laci Mosley?

  Burgl.

• 45:09Speaker 04

  Burgl. Because I also think, well, okay, let's, let's keep going. I, I've got a lot of thoughts.

• 45:16Laci Mosley?

  And I want them. So she drank like the men, smoked like the men, indulged in morphine and carried a pair of six shooter revolvers. I love indulged in morphine because at the time, I'm sure it was just like, now we know it's super terrible.

• 45:31Speaker 04

  Yes, yeah.

• 45:32Laci Mosley?

  For your body, but they were like, yeah, we would have a shot.

• 45:36Speaker 04

  It is funny that they were like, do you want to drink? Like, pass me a drink and can you give me like a little bit of morphine?

• 45:41Laci Mosley?

  Pass that, pass that morph over here. Yeah.

• 45:44Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 45:45Laci Mosley?

  Yeah. It's, and I mean, like, this is not making fun of addiction at all. It's just interesting to how colloquially it was thrown in there when nowadays we would take it like more seriously.

• 45:55Speaker 04

  Again, not a hundred percent on board with this writer. Okay, go ahead.

• 46:01Laci Mosley?

  So she, this writer is a fan, for sure.

• 46:03Speaker 04

  Okay, okay, okay. Okay, then I love, I love what this writer said, though.

• 46:08Laci Mosley?

  So she, her sister, and whoever lovers they roped it to being accomplices would hold up tobacco stores, steal sugar sacks, and commit mail fraud across the country. I wonder what kind of mail fraud they were doing?

• 46:22Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, opening other people's mail, you think?

• 46:24Speaker 04

  Right.

• 46:25Laci Mosley?

  It had to have been at this point. They were just hitting up a little stagecoach.

• 46:28Speaker 04

  And then maybe, but the thing is, I was gonna say, the only real mail fraud I can think of is if you opened up someone's mail, and then they had gotten like a, like a thing for a new credit card, to request a new credit card, and you filled it out, and you got the credit card under their name, and you used it. But obviously, we're in the 1800s here.

• 46:48Laci Mosley?

  Oh, there's tons of mail fraud.

• 46:50Speaker 04

  What is other mail fraud?

• 46:52Laci Mosley?

  Basically, if you do anything through the mail, like if you send wire transfer information, if you like solicit people with payments or letters or anything that is connected to a scam, even if it's not the scam itself, the US Postal, they really be pulling up on people, and, and that is the reason that they end up going to jail. That and wire fraud. Very often, it's not the things that, like the things they get caught with are like the smaller things.

• 47:16Speaker 04

  But in the 1800s, how did they do it? But I guess it's what you said, which is like, they send a letter that's like, dear, dear sir or madam, I am requesting however much money so that I can...

• 47:27Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, it could be that, or it could be stealing people's mail.

• 47:30Speaker 04

  Right, just stealing people's mail. I mean, that's probably the most basic one that I had a really hard time figuring out.

• 47:36Laci Mosley?

  But I'm also like, I feel like stealing people's mail back in the day, it's like, isn't that how people communicated when people were far away? I'm like, ah, another letter.

• 47:43Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's the thing too, is like, why do you want to, but, but maybe some of the mail, maybe someone's money, had money in the mail. Yeah.

• 47:50Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 47:51Speaker 04

  Money in the mail.

• 47:51Laci Mosley?

  So Pearl and her sister began to become so notorious as criminals that when they would be caught, headlines such as, "On the warpath, the notorious Davy girls make trouble for the police," hit the papers. I gotta do that again, cuz I, I didn't say it right. It's gotta be, "On the warpath, the notorious Davy girls make trouble for the police." Like, it's definitely that vibe.

• 48:12Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 48:13Laci Mosley?

  And the newspaper spins.

• 48:15Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 48:17Speaker 04

  Yeah. Um, okay, so they were known for it. Okay, that sounds lightly misogynistic, but, um...

• 48:26Laci Mosley?

  I mean, the thing is, is like, you can be known for something in a time where there's no internet or phones or any connectivity and then the next town over, they don't know who you are at all.

• 48:35Speaker 04

  Right. I mean, that was, I mean, can you imagine if, if we're all pulling off scams these days? Can you imagine in the eighteen hundreds, the level of scams we could have gotten away with? Just, I mean.

• 48:46Laci Mosley?

  Before the police started like sharing information across counties and like states, criminals would just do a crime in one place and then they would move.

• 48:55Speaker 04

  Yes, totally. Stealing mail here, go to the next state, stealing mail there.

• 49:00Laci Mosley?

  They're like a fresh start. I walk fifteen blocks.

• 49:05Laci Mosley?

  So.

• 49:06Speaker 04

  You could be on the same street, but it's in a different county or whatever and you're stealing mail. And maybe you're gonna find some cash in there. That rocks, but bad for the person whose cash it was. Okay?

• 49:20Laci Mosley?

  Right. Which is why I tell you not to send cash through the mail. Uh, so however, despite her growing celebrity, apparently all Pearl ever wanted at first was total obscurity. So.

• 49:31Speaker 04

  I don't know if I believe that, but.

• 49:34Laci Mosley?

  Cause look at these photos. This is not the, the pose of someone who's like, don't look at me. I've never seen a person cock their hat to the side of their head who didn't want to be looked at. Like, what are you saying?

• 49:45Speaker 04

  It just, the only thing of, yeah, absolutely. The only thing about, I think her clothes are really cool. The thing about you, that I always forget about like the eighteen hundreds is that they wore eighteen hundreds style clothes for utilitarian purposes, kind of. And now we want to dress like an eighteen hundreds person and wear the clothes and we're, we're just being, you know, posers, I guess.

• 50:09Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, just for vibes. Like, we're not gonna get out there and shuck anything.

• 50:13Speaker 04

  But, but to your point, the hat is like on a very severe angle in a way that says fashion to me. Notice me and notice my fashion.

• 50:21Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, maybe she was doing the fake humility, like, y'all, don't look at me.

• 50:25Speaker 04

  Yeah, we should, maybe she was like, okay, one more photo and then I'm going into obscurity.

• 50:32Laci Mosley?

  So the events of May 30th, 1899 would make her one last photo, I'm going into obscurity, virtually impossible.

• 50:42Laci Mosley?

  So she's like, just one more. But then in May 30th, she did some shit that really made her a star. So Pearl was 28 and working in the silver mining town of Globe, Arizona at a brothel when she received word that her mother was on her deathbed back in Kansas City. So she better be glad nobody did mail fraud to her because they'll be like, I never let her, something about bereavement.

• 51:03Speaker 04

  Right.

• 51:05Laci Mosley?

  So she was desperate to go back home, but didn't have the means for the trip. So Pearl and her lover at the time, a former shoemaker from Chicago named Joe Boot. Come on, Joe Boot, you were born to do that.

• 51:15Speaker 04

  Oh, my gosh. This is, no one has ever been more made for their job.

• 51:20Laci Mosley?

  They hatched a plan. They would hold up a stagecoach. So the evening of May 30th, 1899, Pearl dressed as a man, led the ambush. They robbed the driver, three passengers. They got $469. This is oldie time money, so that's a bag.

• 51:34Speaker 04

  That's a lot.

• 51:35Laci Mosley?

  Pistols, gold watch. And on her way out, she left each passenger a dollar so they could afford lunch at their destination because she was a benevolent queen.

• 51:42Speaker 04

  Oh, my God, you could get a full lunch for a dollar. That means that that 400 and whatever is going to be, that's for, that's over 400 lunches.

• 51:52Speaker 05

  But also, that's kind of, I would say, a pretty classy move.

• 51:55Speaker 04

  I, I agree.

• 51:56Speaker 05

  Like, I, I like that move.

• 51:58Speaker 04

  I think so, too. It's like she doesn't want to leave them without lunch and

• 52:01Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 52:02Speaker 04

  she's like, sorry, I need this money genuinely. And I have a feeling she's going to get into trouble and that bums me out, but I don't want to.

• 52:08Laci Mosley?

  Right, because she seems so nice. If I got held up and they were like, all right, but here's enough money for you to get a taxi.

• 52:13Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 52:14Laci Mosley?

  I'd be like, thank you so much. Are you still going to take my shoes? Okay.

• 52:17Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. I, I think that was actually very thoughtful of, I like that classy move. I agree, it's a classy move.

• 52:24Laci Mosley?

  Yes. All class. She robbed the stagecoach. So together, she and Boot escaped on horseback with authorities hot on their heels and a long man hug throughout the remote high desert. They were eventually caught while sleeping and arrested before they could make it to Kansas. But luckily Pearl's mother didn't die for another 16 years. So whoever this doctor was, who was like.

• 52:46Speaker 04

  Yeah, talk about the real scammers is this doctor.

• 52:49Speaker 05

  Right?

• 52:50Laci Mosley?

  They're like, she, she finna take her last breath in 16 years. I would be pissed cuz they wouldn't have robbed that stagecoach unless that doctor had lied.

• 52:59Speaker 04

  That doctor, come on.

• 53:02Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, you know. He was one of those leech doctors. He was one of those bloodletting doctors.

• 53:06Speaker 04

  Yes, agree.

• 53:07Laci Mosley?

  He was like, I don't know, we, we, we hit her in the head with a pillow till she stops coughing. You're a hack.

• 53:14Speaker 04

  Yes, agree.

• 53:16Laci Mosley?

  When Pearl was sent to jail, her fame preceded her and she was greeted by a horde of photographers and fans. So is this her mugshot? Oh, yes, it's giving. Look at her looking away like mystery.

• 53:27Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think that she likes the attention more than she says she does because in every photo you've shown, she's like very perfectly posed.

• 53:35Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 53:36Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, she is. And also in the one where she's looking away, the whole point of a mugshot is so we get your mug, sis. So how are you gonna give us this like vogue?

• 53:44Speaker 04

  I know, she's totally, yeah.

• 53:46Speaker 05

  Yeah, I, I agree because a- almost every photo, I mean, one of my eyes is closed. There's always something going on. I mean, these photos are like perfectly styled.

• 53:56Speaker 04

  They're perfectly styled.

• 53:57Laci Mosley?

  And her bang is giving like, cut it with a knife. And I love that.

• 54:02Speaker 04

  Yeah, I agree.

• 54:03Laci Mosley?

  Cuz it's like fashion now, like you would see that on a runway.

• 54:06Speaker 04

  That's what I'm saying is she's so fashionable. She, and she kinda knows that she's rocking the look and she's like, look, if you're taking photos anyway, I'm gonna like, I'm gonna pose I'm an idiot.

• 54:16Laci Mosley?

  So, one man even sent her a bobcat, which she kept as a pet and, until a lover she met it in prison, killed it in an argument. So they let her have a bobcat in prison. Vanessa, the bobcat came back.

• 54:29Speaker 04

  Oh, my gosh. She's, uh, look, I'll give her this. She's good or she's greater on cats, on wild cats.

• 54:37Laci Mosley?

  And I guess this was a time in prison where you could just like.

• 54:40Speaker 04

  You could bring up.

• 54:42Speaker 04

  Seems like really high maintenance to have like another living, yeah, being.

• 54:50Laci Mosley?

  So in a commissary, you just gotta put like lots of raw meat.

• 54:53Speaker 04

  Yeah, like I guess they were like, go ahead, like, you know, just.

• 54:57Laci Mosley?

  Have a bobcat in here. So as an apology, the lover, Ed Hogan, helped Pearl cut a hole out of her jail cell and escape. They made it as far as hopping on a freight train to New Mexico before getting arrested again. Though Pearl was a career criminal, she upheld her own brand of feminism and beliefs in sexual liberation. At her trial for the stagecoach robbery, she told the court, "I shall not consent to be tried under the law in which my sex has no voice in making." I know that's right. She said, "I ain't make these rules up, men."

• 55:27Speaker 04

  I love that.

• 55:29Laci Mosley?

  Because I always, that always freaks me out that we're born into this world and they're like, "Here's the rules." I'm like, "I ain't getting a vote. I didn't get to say nothing about that."

• 55:37Speaker 04

  A hundred percent. She's like, "These rules weren't made for me. I'm not going to follow them." And guess what? She's right.

• 55:43Laci Mosley?

  Pearl's a feminist icon. So they tried her anyway, because basically what she was saying was like, "These laws don't apply to me because I'm a woman."

• 55:52Laci Mosley?

  They're like, "We don't care. Now, now y'all want to have equality."

• 55:55Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 55:55Laci Mosley?

  Would've. So they tried her anyway, and she was sentenced to five years in prison. She served as the only female resident among 260 prisoners at the infamous Yuma Territorial Prison. I know, locally known as Repulsive Hell Hole. Oh, no.

• 56:09Speaker 04

  Oh my god, this is so not fair.

• 56:11Laci Mosley?

  Yeah. Also, you can't even just make me my own private prison since y'all have no work to do.

• 56:16Speaker 04

  Look, they were making those juvenile, when were we talking about that?

• 56:19Laci Mosley?

  Might, they made the baby jail.

• 56:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, make a jail just for her so she doesn't get harassed by all these guys. I hate that. I hate she had to be in there with them. Although she, maybe she was scamming them the whole time. And they were scared of her. Who knows?

• 56:31Laci Mosley?

  Maybe. I mean, she did chill Leon a bobcat, so maybe she's about that life. So despite its rough conditions, Yuma turned out to be a turning point for Pearl. She weaned herself off morphine, became a talented seamstress, and even made early parole in 1902, though likely due to a smallpox outbreak in the prison and a fake pregnancy. I know that's right. You better fake a pregnancy, girl. How they gonna know?

• 56:55Speaker 04

  Yeah. What are these men gonna figure it out? Because they're, you know, come on.

• 57:00Laci Mosley?

  Now, who's gonna figure that out? Joe Boot?

• 57:05Laci Mosley?

  He's Joe Boot, not Joe Baby, okay? He don't know nothing about that.

• 57:09Speaker 04

  All he knows about his shoes.

• 57:11Laci Mosley?

  Right. That's it. So, in prison, Pearl also learned how to read, write, and compose poetry. Oh, and we have an artist rendering of Pearl in prison from...

• 57:23Speaker 04

  Beautiful.

• 57:23Laci Mosley?

  Oh, okay Pearl, I love Pearl.

• 57:26Speaker 04

  I do too. I, honestly, if Pearl was alive today, I think we would... It would be so fun if you could be like, "And here, and now, we have a very special guest joining us," and it was Pearl. We'd all be honored.

• 57:39Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 57:39Laci Mosley?

  We truly would. We'd take her to the new cookie shop in L.A.

• 57:42Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 57:44Laci Mosley?

  Stick it up for us.

• 57:45Speaker 04

  She'd stick it up for us, get all the cookies. You know, or at least she'd like scam them into giving us them, even if, you know...

• 57:52Laci Mosley?

  Yes. She would leave some cookies behind for the other patrons who want to try the famous cookie.

• 57:56Speaker 04

  She would say, "I'm not gonna tell you why, but you have to give me all the cookies now, but you can save four for your lunch." For each of you for lunch.

• 58:05Laci Mosley?

  You know how we all eat cookies for lunch. So meanwhile, her sister Katie found her own success in the arts and wrote a play about Pearl called "The Arizona Female Bandit." After Pearl was released, she couldn't hide from the number of reporters and desperate, who were like desperate for interviews, including a number of newly established magazines. Cosmopolitan. Wow, I know Cosmopolitan was that old. So the woman, from a rough background and an even rougher home, rose to folklore-level neurotarity. Everybody was loving her, she was free spirit, like, we love her.

• 58:34Speaker 04

  We love her.

• 58:34Laci Mosley?

  We love Pearl right now.

• 58:35Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 58:36Laci Mosley?

  So, when a Cosmo journalist sat down with her, instead of Pearl, like, being ostentatious, loud, ruffian that this person was expecting, she was met by a polite, well-spoken woman, just in man's shirt and suspenders, ready to share her story. I love that Pearl was a baddie. Oh, look at her here. Yes. Oh, Pearl. Pearl's legacy is that she told a number of tales to reporters that mixed lies with reality over the years, so maybe the Bobcat, you were right, Vanessa. Maybe the Bobcat didn't have her.

• 59:03Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 59:04Laci Mosley?

  She was just like lying for fun. I love that for her. And we don't really know a lot about her early life or her life after prison, but all the stuff that we recounted here, right? But yeah, she was the lady bandit and she was popping and I love Pearl.

• 59:20Speaker 04

  I think we all love Pearl and I think the moment that really cemented her in our hearts is when she gave, she robbed that stagecoach and then she gave everyone a dollar for lunch. It's like,

• 59:30Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 59:30Speaker 04

  that's being a class act while still scamming people.

• 59:35Speaker 04

  I think that's really, you know, and also she, she just wanted the money so she could go see her mom. If this piece of, honestly, I don't know if we're allowed to swear on here.

• 59:46Laci Mosley?

  Oh, yeah. You haven't heard me this whole time?

• 59:50Speaker 04

  This piece of crap.

• 59:54Speaker 04

  This piece of crap doctor wasn't giving that. It's like, it's always comes back to these dumb men. Sorry.

• 1:00:02Laci Mosley?

  Sorry. Cause if the doctor had gave a good prognosis, I mean, I know it's old timey medicine. He was just going on vibes. But she wouldn't have even gone, but she did give people lunch money and for that she's an icon to me.

• 1:00:14Speaker 04

  We love her.

• 1:00:15Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:00:15Speaker 04

  We love her.

• 1:00:17Laci Mosley?

  So that brings us to the saddest part of the show, the end where I have to let Vanessa and Jonah go. But before we do, just one quick scammer of the week. This is where we highlight a charlatan or a group of criminals. Maybe they're worth our praise. Maybe they're not.

• 1:00:31Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:00:31Laci Mosley?

  We'll see. So we're talking about an investor by the name of Jacob Garlic, who just attempted to purchase Manhattan's iconic Flatiron Building for a hundred ninety million dollars. This is Jacob Garlic. Wow, he.

• 1:00:42Speaker 05

  I, I, I read, I heard about this one.

• 1:00:44Speaker 04

  Jonah loves reading about this kind of stuff.

• 1:00:49Laci Mosley?

  Jacob Garlic, if you saw this man, would you think he was rich?

• 1:00:55Speaker 05

  I mean, he's, I think he's, it looks like he's wearing a nice suit, right? I don't know.

• 1:00:59Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:00:59Laci Mosley?

  He's got, I can't figure out if his eyes are kind or sociopathic.

• 1:01:04Speaker 04

  Right, right, right, right. I certainly wouldn't know he has Jacob Garlic level money to buy that.

• 1:01:09Laci Mosley?

  No, it feels like he would be, like he would do like a mall Santa gig and all the kids would love him.

• 1:01:14Speaker 04

  Yeah, right. I'm not, yes.

• 1:01:16Laci Mosley?

  From the beard.

• 1:01:17Speaker 04

  Totally.

• 1:01:17Laci Mosley?

  I don't know. I'm on his side so far, but uh, Jonah, you probably already know where you stand. So the problem with him trying to buy this Flatiron Building and we're looking at it right now, very tall, very rich, very New York, is that-

• 1:01:31Speaker 04

  I've been in this building.

• 1:01:33Laci Mosley?

  You know what's interesting to me is that this building is $190 million, but there's definitely like a mansion like that's like a residential estate that's like $264 million.

• 1:01:42Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, yeah. New York's so expensive.

• 1:01:46Laci Mosley?

  But I can't imagine that I could buy the Flatiron Building, but I couldn't buy that house.

• 1:01:49Speaker 05

  Right, right. Flatiron Building seems, that seems like-

• 1:01:52Speaker 04

  What's your-

• 1:01:53Speaker 05

  Yeah. If someone was like, "How much does a Flatiron Building cost?", I would be like, "I don't know, $500 million." I have no idea.

• 1:01:59Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:02:00Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, I wouldn't have said $190.

• 1:02:02Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:02:02Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:02:03Laci Mosley?

  He was getting it for a steal.

• 1:02:05Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's a pretty good deal.

• 1:02:06Speaker 04

  If you got it for $190, you're right, you're right. Yes.

• 1:02:09Laci Mosley?

  So the problem with him buying it is that he hasn't made the down payment. In March of this year, Jacob, 30, won an auction for the building. Ah, there we go. With a winning bid of $190 million, beating out the building's previous owner, Jeffrey Gural. So the auction is how he got it a little cheaper.

• 1:02:26Speaker 04

  Okay, that makes sense.

• 1:02:27Laci Mosley?

  Something's the middleman method.

• 1:02:28Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:02:29Laci Mosley?

  So Jacob sits as the managing partner of Abram Trust. But outside of a stripped-down website with almost no information, little is known about the trust. So he just got a website, it says Abram Trust, "Trust me, we got money." That's it.

• 1:02:43Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:02:44Laci Mosley?

  So the nearly completed, unknown buyer has baffled the established New York real estate buyers. They're like, "Who is this? Who is this person who came in here from Abram Trust?" The building, which sits at the 175 Fifth Avenue, is completely vacant and requires major renovations that will likely produce, like, so it won't produce any returns for many years. Because it's basically like an old junkyard.

• 1:03:07Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:03:09Laci Mosley?

  That's what I call buildings that need renovation.

• 1:03:11Speaker 04

  I like it.

• 1:03:12Laci Mosley?

  So prior to the auction, its current majority owners had hoped to send the building to auction, ultimately use the majority of their share to buy it back and sell partitions of the property, which, you know, real estate people, they're like, "We want to cut it up and stick people in little closets."

• 1:03:30Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:03:30Laci Mosley?

  For a mortgage payment every month.

• 1:03:34Laci Mosley?

  And so according to one of the few public statements made by Jacob, the primary reason he wanted to buy the building price be damned is it's simply been his dream to own it since he was 12. Okay, yay for dreams. That was your dream. You were like, I'm gonna be a real estate mogul.

• 1:03:46Speaker 04

  Yeah, seems young.

• 1:03:48Laci Mosley?

  I'm gonna be in gentrification.

• 1:03:52Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:03:53Laci Mosley?

  Okay, people like, I wanna be astronaut.

• 1:03:56Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:03:56Laci Mosley?

  I wanna be a scientist. He's like, I wanna be in gentrification. I love that. Okay, Jacob. So however, at the Friday deadline, Jacob hasn't put down the $19 million deposit and the building has been offered back up at, ooh, at 189.5 million. If it's not accepted, the building will go back to auction, stopping Jacob's big plans with the only goal of driving the price up. Oh. So it might have been an emotional attempt to like get back at previous owners. So what they're saying is, is that Jacob went to this auction and just kept raising that panel up.

• 1:04:33Speaker 04

  Interesting. Okay.

• 1:04:34Speaker 05

  Yeah. So yeah, and I think, you know, another piece to it from what I read is like, there's five or six different owners of the building who own different parts. It's like broken up, so they had to sell it together. And so they think maybe he was trying to sabotage this sale. It was a very complicated setup for this, I think.

• 1:04:52Laci Mosley?

  I love that. I love that he was trying to sabotage them.

• 1:04:55Speaker 05

  Yeah. So now they, yeah, they asked, you know, they're saying that I don't think they have proof of this, but yeah, there is an idea that maybe he was trying to drive up the price. But, you know, I don't know.

• 1:05:05Laci Mosley?

  Because the auction house was like, oh, well, y'all can buy it for your original bid of 189.5.

• 1:05:10Speaker 05

  Right, right, right, right. Yeah.

• 1:05:13Laci Mosley?

  They're not gonna re-auction it.

• 1:05:14Speaker 05

  Right. I feel like you gotta re-auction it. Like, to me, it's a US.

• 1:05:18Laci Mosley?

  Nah, nah. We don't have to be nice to those corporate greed mofos.

• 1:05:21Speaker 05

  Yeah, okay, fair enough. Yeah, yeah. 189.5, yeah.

• 1:05:26Speaker 04

  I think if this guy is a scammer, then he's, his name is also a scam. Can't be real, right?

• 1:05:31Laci Mosley?

  Oh, you think he's not garlic?

• 1:05:33Speaker 04

  Jacob Garlic? It feels a little bit like, what's your name? Um, Jacob, uh, you know, they look around the kitchen, the classic TV trope.

• 1:05:41Laci Mosley?

  Give a doubt fire to you.

• 1:05:42Speaker 04

  Yeah, Jacob, um, Garlic. Yeah, my name's Jacob Garlic and, uh, uh, yeah, you know what I mean? It seems like that.

• 1:05:50Laci Mosley?

  He saw Penny and he's like, and I'm from Abram, Abram Trust.

• 1:05:54Speaker 04

  And I love, uh, I love, um, elevators. Cause there's an elevator right there.

• 1:06:01Laci Mosley?

  Right. Oh goodness gracious. That brings us to the end of a very fun episode. As always, we like to ask our guests, where would you like to be found? Anything you want to plug, anywhere people can find you?

• 1:06:13Speaker 04

  Jonah, go ahead.

• 1:06:15Speaker 05

  Yeah. Well, me and, as, as you mentioned at the top of the show, me and Vanessa have a podcast, release new episodes, uh, every Monday called How Did We Get Weird on Will Ferrell's, um, Big Money Players Network through iHeart Media. And we have some great episodes coming up, some really fun guests. And then, uh, I'm on Twitter at Jonah M Bayer dot com. Oh no, Jonah M Bayer. And then my website, my website's Jonah Bayer. If you want to check that out, there's not really a whole lot happening there. But, uh, Joan M Bayer posts a lot about music and, um, a lot of really funny jokes. And then Vanessa really likes to roast my jokes.

• 1:06:48Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:06:49Speaker 05

  So that's always nice. It's always nice to have a sibling with way more followers to start kind of critiquing you.

• 1:06:57Speaker 05

  And Vanessa, what about you? Where can people find you?

• 1:06:59Speaker 04

  Well, it's multiple. Okay. Well, yes, on our podcast, How Did We Get Weird? Which is available wherever you get your podcasts. Okay. And also you can check out my show on Showtime. I love that for you. Lacey, I feel like you're shouting it out every time you say it. I know that you're, um, I know that you're not, maybe not intentionally doing it, but now it's in my heart.

• 1:07:19Laci Mosley?

  It's gonna be like inception now. Every time I say, I love that for you guys, Showtime.

• 1:07:23Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, exactly. Perfect. And also I'm at Vanessa Bayer on Twitter and Instagram and the Gram.

• 1:07:34Laci Mosley?

  They'll find you. They're gonna find you. And as always guys, uh, snitch on your friends, family and your enemies. It's [email protected]. And if you want to see the pictures, you gotta see, uh, Pearl's drip. Cause she's real cute and humble. Okay? Scam got us pod on Instagram and I'm going to log back into the scam got us pod on Twitter. I swear. And if you want to follow me, D I V A L A C I, Diva Lacey on all platforms. Congregation, you know, stay giving people a dollar for lunch money.

• 1:08:04Laci Mosley?

  Scam Goddess. You gotta do it.

• 1:08:06Speaker 04

  You gotta do it.

• 1:08:07Laci Mosley?

  This has been an Earwolf production in association with Team Coco. Scam Goddess stars and is hosted by me, Lacey Mosley, AKA The Scam Goddess. Our producer is Judith Cargill. Our recording engineer is Abby Aguilar and our audio editor is Jessie Karen. Research for the show is done by Kalen Brand. Stay scamming.

• 1:08:27Speaker 01

  This January, bare-knuckle fighting championship takes over the ocean. The inaugural Brew's Cruise sails from Miami to the Bahamas aboard the Norwegian Jewel. Three straight days with pool deck bare-knuckle fights in the Caribbean. Massive parties, beach events, DJs, cigars, tequila tastings and nonstop action. The lineup reveals coming soon. Cabins are disappearing fast and the prices won't stay this low. Reserve your spot with just $200 down at B K F S E A dot com.

• 1:08:57Speaker 02

  Buick knows confidence changes how you move through the world. That's why Buick designs SUVs with striking style and was named the most dependable mass market brand by J.D. Power. From the head-turning Buick Invista to the seven-passenger Enclave, experience the Buick SUV lineup at Buick.com. Buick, exceptional by design. Buick received the few reported problems in its segment in the J.D. Power 2025-2026 U.S. Vehicle Dependability Studies based on 2022-2023 models. For J.D. Power 2026 award information, visit JDpower.com/awards.