"Why You're SABOTAGING Your Love Life" - The Neuroscience of Attraction Revealed

In this powerful episode of The School of Greatness, I dive deep into the fascinating world of love, relationships, and the human brain with three incredible experts. We kick things off with neuroscientist Dr. Tara Swart, who breaks down the science behind attraction, bonding, and how our childhood wounds impact our adult relationships. Next, I sit down with relationship guru Matthew Hussey to discuss his new book "Love Life" and unpack the keys to finding lasting love. Finally, we explore the future of dating and how to build strong connections in our tech-driven world. This episode is packed with mind-blowing insights, practical advice, and inspiring stories that will transform how you approach love and relationships. Whether you're single, dating, or in a long-term partnership, you won't want to miss the game-changing wisdom shared in this conversation! IN THIS EPISODE YOU WILL LEARN:How childhood trauma and our "shadow self" influence our ability to attract and maintain healthy relationshipsThe surprising ways brain chemistry and hormones impact attraction, bonding, and long-term commitmentWhy developing self-compassion and vulnerability is crucial for finding authentic love and connectionPractical strategies for rewiring your brain to break negative relationship patterns and attract the right partnerExpert tips for maintaining a strong connection with your partner and navigating the challenges of modern datingFor more information go to https://www.lewishowes.com/1679For more Greatness text PODCAST to +1 (614) 350-3960More SOG episodes we think you’ll love:Dr. Tara Swart – https://link.chtbl.com/1629-podMatthew Hussey – https://link.chtbl.com/1590-podNick Viall – https://link.chtbl.com/1565-pod Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to this special masterclass. We've brought some of the top experts in the world to help you unlock the power of your life through this specific theme today. It's going to be powerful, so let's go ahead and dive in.

• 0:18Lewis Howes?

  Do you believe that we can be in beautiful, healthy, loving relationships? And we can manifest everything we have on our vision or action boards? If we have yet to heal the wounds of our childhood as a neuroscientist?

• 0:34Dr. Tara Swart?

  No.

• 0:35Lewis Howes?

  Really? So if we have these visions and dreams and goals that we want to go after, if we want to have a beautiful relationship, but we are wounded still, the inner child is wounded inside of us as adults, what will happen to us?

• 0:50Dr. Tara Swart?

  So this is really about inner child and shadow, right? So we, I think people understand that you've got an inner child that maybe didn't get over things that you experienced in your childhood. Shadow is about the parts of yourself that you've rejected because as a young child, you rely on your primary caregivers for survival.

• 1:11Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:12Dr. Tara Swart?

  And if there is something that they don't love about you, you want to hide that for all the world so that they will still love you and like not let you die.

• 1:20Lewis Howes?

  You don't want anyone to notice about you.

• 1:21Dr. Tara Swart?

  No.

• 1:22Lewis Howes?

  That shame.

• 1:23Dr. Tara Swart?

  So you hide it away in childhood and often find yourself in adulthood, no longer even aware of what those things are because you've rejected them so deeply.

• 1:32Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:33Dr. Tara Swart?

  Yeah. And but that's driving a lot of your unconscious behavior.

• 1:37Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:38Dr. Tara Swart?

  So if you put together the inner child in the shadow, then what happens is you meet people on the same level of psychological wound as you.

• 1:48Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man.

• 1:50Dr. Tara Swart?

  You also leave people where if you evolve out of that and they haven't been able to.

• 1:55Lewis Howes?

  Wow. Which I think goes back to one of the things, one of the pieces of content I heard you talk about, which is like the sense of smell connecting to someone's stress levels or anxiety levels. Like you'll kind of attract a similar nervous system or I guess a certain similar like, I don't know, stress level?

• 2:13Dr. Tara Swart?

  Yeah, so it's not, it's not, it's not smell. It's sensing, sensing, not through smell, the level of the stress hormone, yeah.

• 2:21Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 2:22Dr. Tara Swart?

  But that's short term, right? But the inner child and shadow stuff is longer term.

• 2:26Lewis Howes?

  Gosh, that's fascinating.

• 2:27Dr. Tara Swart?

  Yeah.

• 2:28Lewis Howes?

  So you think we attract people based on our psychological wounds?

• 2:32Dr. Tara Swart?

  Hundred percent.

• 2:33Lewis Howes?

  Wow. And as we start to heal and grow, if the other person's not healing and growing, we kind of pull away.

• 2:40Dr. Tara Swart?

  Uh huh.

• 2:40Lewis Howes?

  Wow, that's interesting. Speaking, I guess, about relationships and men and women, with all of your expertise on the brain, is the process of manifesting love and falling in love different for men versus women?

• 2:52Dr. Tara Swart?

  I think if it's love you're really looking for, then it's not different.

• 2:55Lewis Howes?

  Not lust.

• 2:56Dr. Tara Swart?

  Yeah, exactly. The issue is what you're actually looking for.

• 3:00Lewis Howes?

  So you think men and women manifest love the same way, similar ways?

• 3:05Dr. Tara Swart?

  Yeah, I think if, you know, if you want that sense of partnership and friendship and intimacy and you want to be loyal and you want it to be for the long term, then it doesn't matter what gender you are. But if the disconnect is often, and you know, this is a bit of a stereotype, but usually it's more that men, sorry, that women want a loving, stable relationship and men perhaps, you know, don't want that as much.

• 3:30Lewis Howes?

  Want sex or whatever, yeah.

• 3:31Dr. Tara Swart?

  Or don't, you know, just don't want it right now, but go through periods where that's what they want and go through periods where that's not what they want, which I guess could be true of any gender as well. But overall, more likely women will want to like be in a monogamous relationship.

• 3:45Lewis Howes?

  Why is that based on kind of the brain size?

• 3:48Dr. Tara Swart?

  Um, so. It comes from evolution. So when we lived in the cave, women did need men to protect them from predators and to hunt for food. So women tend-

• 4:00Lewis Howes?

  Especially if they're pregnant too, and they weren't able to go out and hunt or gather, or whatever it might be.

• 4:05Dr. Tara Swart?

  Yeah, yeah. They, I mean, they generally didn't hunt as much, so they gathered more. But then it's hard to get protein from what you gather rather than what you hunt. So, so for survival, and you know, they used the, the fat and the skins and everything. So it wasn't just food, it was shelter and-

• 4:23Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 4:24Dr. Tara Swart?

  -fire and, you know, all of that kind of stuff. So although we don't necessarily need a man for those physical things now, it's a very strong survival wiring in the brain. And so what we have, you know, in, in the cave, we lived nomadically. So often the men would go and hunt and be away for a very long time. Or if they went far enough and they found a cave of the, of the same tribe, they would just stay there and not go back. Why risk your life to travel back for, you know, six weeks?

• 4:58Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 4:59Dr. Tara Swart?

  But over time, a lot of societies in the modern world have asked people to live in unit families. And so we have seen men's brains be rewired.

• 5:09Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 5:10Dr. Tara Swart?

  Yeah. Quite recently, relatively recently, like maybe in the last 10 years, research has showed that when you become a dad for the first time, oxytocin rewires your brain so that you're more into bonding and less into the testosterone competitive stuff. Because if you think about it, lions and tigers, they'll eat their own children.

• 5:29Lewis Howes?

  You have to tame that in some ways, right?

• 5:30Dr. Tara Swart?

  Yeah.

• 5:31Lewis Howes?

  But how do you, how do you tame it, but also harness it in other ways? You know what I mean? It's like a dance of like having drive and testosterone.

• 5:39Dr. Tara Swart?

  Yeah.

• 5:40Lewis Howes?

  Like, I never want to lose that drive, right?

• 5:43Dr. Tara Swart?

  I get this question all the time.

• 5:44Lewis Howes?

  But I also want to be like a great loving parent and partner and all these things.

• 5:48Dr. Tara Swart?

  Yeah.

• 5:49Lewis Howes?

  And not let testosterone drive me in doing damaging things now, so.

• 5:54Dr. Tara Swart?

  Well, so from about the age of 35, your testosterone will have started dropping significantly already.

• 6:01Lewis Howes?

  Not mine.

• 6:04Lewis Howes?

  Let's go.

• 6:06Dr. Tara Swart?

  One's testosterone tends to drop from that age. So when you do become a dad.

• 6:14Lewis Howes?

  It drops after you become a dad?

• 6:16Dr. Tara Swart?

  For the first time. Oxytocin goes up, testosterone drops, you become much more about like cuddling and bonding and wanting to stay in the home and look after the.

• 6:25Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 6:26Dr. Tara Swart?

  Mum and the baby.

• 6:27Lewis Howes?

  Less about, less about like lifting and like hunting, right?

• 6:30Dr. Tara Swart?

  Yeah.

• 6:31Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 6:31Dr. Tara Swart?

  If you keep lifting, then you would actually like keep your testosterone levels higher. Also, if the baby sleeps in the same room as you, then your testosterone levels drop even more.

• 6:40Lewis Howes?

  Come on.

• 6:41Dr. Tara Swart?

  So you might want to move out for three months to a different bedroom.

• 6:44Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. I've already told her, I'm getting my sleep, you know, the first few months. So your testosterone drops?

• 6:50Dr. Tara Swart?

  If you sleep in the same room as the baby.

• 6:52Lewis Howes?

  Why is that?

• 6:53Dr. Tara Swart?

  Because you're, because the oxytocin's becoming like, you know, higher and higher because you've got this cute little warm thing that smells so nice and is so like vulnerable and dependent on you. And it's like in the room with you, the whole eight hours, you know, just oxytocin boost.

• 7:08Lewis Howes?

  But are women attracted to men with less testosterone?

• 7:12Dr. Tara Swart?

  They are when they're not fertile, but they are not when they are at peak fertility.

• 7:18Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 7:18Dr. Tara Swart?

  So mid-cycle, when you're ovulating, you're going to want a bad boy. And the rest of the time, you're going to want a nice man that will stay at home and help you look after the baby.

• 7:28Lewis Howes?

  So if you're not a bad boy, when you're at peak fertility as a woman, is that going to hurt the relationship if you don't give women what they want?

• 7:36Dr. Tara Swart?

  Hang on, say that again.

• 7:38Lewis Howes?

  So if a man is not a.

• 7:39Dr. Tara Swart?

  Not a bad boy.

• 7:40Lewis Howes?

  Not a bad boy.

• 7:41Dr. Tara Swart?

  Yeah.

• 7:41Lewis Howes?

  When a woman is at peak fertility. And the man just wants to cuddle and chill and not be driven by testosterone and give the woman that, that testosterone feel.

• 7:51Dr. Tara Swart?

  Yeah.

• 7:51Lewis Howes?

  Well, that ultimately hurts the relationship long-term if the woman doesn't get what she wants sexually.

• 7:56Dr. Tara Swart?

  I mean, I think if she's chosen him by then, so this is more about when you're like in the choosing phase. Once you settle down with someone, then you have like a logical conversation about are we trying for a baby or not, right?

• 8:09Lewis Howes?

  But logic and emotion are two different things.

• 8:11Dr. Tara Swart?

  No, I mean.

• 8:11Lewis Howes?

  In relationships, you know, you might logically say, okay, I'm safe, but emotionally you want something else.

• 8:17Dr. Tara Swart?

  This is a reason that people cheat.

• 8:19Lewis Howes?

  Right, right. Because they're not getting what they want sexually.

• 8:22Dr. Tara Swart?

  Yeah.

• 8:23Lewis Howes?

  And so it's like, how do you suppress the thing you want sexually to be like, oh, but he's such a good guy? Or he's this and but if he's not giving me what I want, then I'm gonna go find it from this other younger testosterone driven man, right?

• 8:35Dr. Tara Swart?

  You're getting really jealous here.

• 8:37Lewis Howes?

  Not getting jealous.

• 8:38Dr. Tara Swart?

  This fantasy younger, high testosterone man.

• 8:43Lewis Howes?

  Well, I'm just thinking, is this what women deal with?

• 8:45Dr. Tara Swart?

  I know.

• 8:45Lewis Howes?

  Is this what women deal with?

• 8:46Dr. Tara Swart?

  Yeah, to some, you know, more consciously or less consciously, depending on the woman.

• 8:52Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it's interesting, right?

• 8:54Dr. Tara Swart?

  So let me kind of explain the physiology behind it from the research that we know the best.

• 8:59Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 9:00Dr. Tara Swart?

  Which is in prairie voles. So there are two types of voles in America. Marshed or mountain voles.

• 9:09Lewis Howes?

  Voles, what's a vol?

• 9:10Dr. Tara Swart?

  Vole, it's a little rat-like creature.

• 9:13Lewis Howes?

  Prairie, prairie dogs?

• 9:15Dr. Tara Swart?

  No.

• 9:16Lewis Howes?

  Not prairie dogs?

• 9:17Dr. Tara Swart?

  It's a vol. It's more like a mouse or a rat.

• 9:19Lewis Howes?

  Okay, cool.

• 9:19Dr. Tara Swart?

  Yeah, the ones that live in the marsh or the mountain, they have plenty of food and plenty of shelter. And they're super promiscuous. The ones that moved to the prairie, where there's like scarce food and shelter. They snuggle in and settle down and become monogamous for life.

• 9:38Lewis Howes?

  The same rat, the same mouse, but just living in different areas. Come on.

• 9:44Dr. Tara Swart?

  So.

• 9:44Lewis Howes?

  So wait, you're telling me rats are monogamous?

• 9:47Dr. Tara Swart?

  These voles, these voles are monogamous.

• 9:53Lewis Howes?

  If they live in the prairie.

• 9:54Dr. Tara Swart?

  If they live in the prairie, but not if they live in the marsh.

• 9:57Lewis Howes?

  But if they have a, if they have all the food and abundance, they're just.

• 10:01Dr. Tara Swart?

  And lots of female voles that they can go and visit.

• 10:04Lewis Howes?

  They're just little polyamorous voles, huh?

• 10:07Dr. Tara Swart?

  Because they know that if they get, they get, you know, one vol pregnant and she's left on her own to look after her young. They're going to survive because they're well sheltered. There's plenty of food for her to nip out and bring it back to the babies. Yeah. But in the prairie, if he was promiscuous, then the chances of his offspring dying are quite high because she can't defend the nest herself. She can't find enough food for herself and them without help. And so, let's extrapolate this. How does this help humans, right? Okay.

• 10:39Lewis Howes?

  Well, which first off, which which mice are happier? The ones that are more promiscuous or the ones that are coupled?

• 10:47Dr. Tara Swart?

  I think it depends on the on the bowl.

• 10:49Lewis Howes?

  So you think the the female mice are happy if they just, you know, are pregnant, but then their partner just leaves?

• 10:57Dr. Tara Swart?

  No, no.

• 10:57Lewis Howes?

  They're not happy?

• 10:58Dr. Tara Swart?

  No.

• 10:58Lewis Howes?

  How do we know? Can we test that?

• 11:02Lewis Howes?

  Okay, so how do we apply this to our lives?

• 11:04Dr. Tara Swart?

  There is an answer to that.

• 11:05Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 11:06Dr. Tara Swart?

  We test it through um levels of oxytocin and vasopressin.

• 11:10Lewis Howes?

  Come on, have we done this? Have people done this?

• 11:12Dr. Tara Swart?

  Yes.

• 11:13Lewis Howes?

  No way. These mice?

• 11:15Dr. Tara Swart?

  Yeah.

• 11:15Lewis Howes?

  Wow, that's crazy.

• 11:16Dr. Tara Swart?

  Um, and actually, just to be serious, the research has done more to help with loneliness, grief and heartbreak. But obviously, it's got implications for dating.

• 11:27Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 11:28Dr. Tara Swart?

  Um, so because one of the things that we saw with the receptors in the brain is that like, if if I'm in, no, it's got to be the other way around. If you're in love with me, you've got more vasopressin receptors in your nucleus accumbens, which is on the reward circuitry. And then every time you see me, you get a reward. And the longer that we've been dating and stay together and become closer, that reward becomes more intense every time you see me. However, if we then had a prolonged separation, time can down-regulate the effect of those receptors. So obviously, there are implications for that in a breakup or grief, right?

• 12:09Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 12:10Dr. Tara Swart?

  Um, and but one of the things I think is like so, so important for dating is that if a woman, if a if a couple are getting to know each other, and this is all on like heterosexual couples in research. Then as a woman is sexually interested and liking the guy and enjoying the dating, her oxytocin levels is like slowly, slowly starting to go up. When they start actually having sex, she's going to be releasing higher levels of oxytocin every time she orgasms, and that's going to make her bond to the guy much more. If you have sex on the first date, the guy's vasopressin levels will plummet straight away, and all he'll be interested in is testosterone.

• 12:55Dr. Tara Swart?

  If you make him wait, his vasopressin and oxytocin levels go up. And then when you do actually have sex, he's already bonded, so it's more likely to become part of a loving relationship.

• 13:07Lewis Howes?

  Wow, so if a woman sleeps with a man on the first date or two, is a man driven to want to bond long term with that person? No.

• 13:21Lewis Howes?

  Why not?

• 13:22Dr. Tara Swart?

  Because the vasopressin levels drop as soon as he has sex.

• 13:25Lewis Howes?

  What does that mean?

• 13:26Dr. Tara Swart?

  So vasopressin is the one that makes the prey revolves monogamous. The higher the levels of that, and that the receptors appear in the reward circuitry of your brain. And so basically, if you see your partner in distress, it affects your brain, those neurons, and you want to comfort her through physical touch.

• 13:47Dr. Tara Swart?

  So that's oxytocin. But if you haven't had time for those receptors to appear in the correct place to make you bond, then it's just, it's, you know, it goes back to lust. So what I say about love and relationships is that the genetics and the receptors will load the gun, but sexual activity will pull the trigger.

• 14:14Lewis Howes?

  So based on neuroscience, if you sleep with someone quickly, you're less likely to bond long term together. You're more likely to be promiscuous or just not be as interested in that person long term. Is that right? That's fascinating.

• 14:32Dr. Tara Swart?

  I know.

• 14:33Lewis Howes?

  But you hear a lot of people, but just be like, you know, just sleep with them on the first day. It's fun. Just have fun. You know, it's all good, but I just feel like you're setting yourself up for letdown.

• 14:43Dr. Tara Swart?

  But if that's what you want, that's fine.

• 14:45Lewis Howes?

  But I think. But don't expect the guy to keep liking you after that.

• 14:47Dr. Tara Swart?

  No, no. And don't say it's fine and it's fun if you actually want a long term relationship and then be disappointed that they didn't want that too.

• 14:54Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. So the brain chemistry within a man changes after if they have sex earlier with a woman.

• 15:02Dr. Tara Swart?

  And it changes in a different way if they wait and they actually like create a bond and then.

• 15:08Lewis Howes?

  First.

• 15:09Dr. Tara Swart?

  Yeah.

• 15:09Lewis Howes?

  And then have sex.

• 15:10Dr. Tara Swart?

  Yeah.

• 15:11Lewis Howes?

  What changes within a woman when they have sex with a man? Do they become more bonded to the person?

• 15:18Dr. Tara Swart?

  Yeah. So for the woman, it's not so much to do with whether they are already in love with the person or not. If they're having sex and they're releasing oxytocin, because they don't, we don't have as much testosterone as you. You've got at least seven to eight times as much testosterone as me. And that buffers the effect of oxytocin, whereas I would get the full effect of oxytocin.

• 15:41Lewis Howes?

  That's fascinating. So a woman, when they have sex with a man, they're bonding quicker.

• 15:46Dr. Tara Swart?

  Yeah.

• 15:47Lewis Howes?

  When a man has sex with a woman, he's not necessarily bonding right away. He has to have more time connecting with her.

• 15:52Dr. Tara Swart?

  Yeah.

• 15:53Lewis Howes?

  Until he bonds.

• 15:54Dr. Tara Swart?

  Yeah.

• 15:55Lewis Howes?

  That is interesting.

• 15:56Dr. Tara Swart?

  And then sex will, then the oxytocin isn't as buffered by the testosterone. So when you've got the vasopressin and the oxytocin high, then the testosterone has less negating effect on it.

• 16:10Lewis Howes?

  This is fascinating. Okay. What else about neuroscience and relationships should we address since we're on this topic? That you think is really interesting?

• 16:21Dr. Tara Swart?

  So I think, you know, the whole like visual and smell thing at start is quite interesting. And then the receptors and hormones to do with bonding and sex is really interesting. I would say that because we live so much longer now, you know, we, we're using these cave analogies, but to be honest, in cave times, you and I would both be dead.

• 16:38Lewis Howes?

  Die at thirty, yeah.

• 16:41Dr. Tara Swart?

  So relationships potentially have to last for longer. And I think there's two things to say here. One is that you can use neuroplasticity to keep growing and changing in a way that keeps a relationship fresh.

• 16:57Dr. Tara Swart?

  If you are holding on to this fantasy that a relationship has to last forever, even if we're now living till we're a hundred, right? So I think another way to look at it is about being in the present, not necessarily putting this intense pressure on yourself, your partner and the relationship, that it has to last forever.

• 17:14Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 17:16Dr. Tara Swart?

  Understanding that even if a relationship breaks down, and that's obviously difficult to handle at the time, that there are potential possibilities for something that's more right for you at a different age than maybe a choice you made in your twenties.

• 17:33Dr. Tara Swart?

  So, you know, nothing, you don't have to be a neuroscientist to say those two things. It's kind of like just using your brain to understand that there's a certain amount of time. There are, you know, benefits to being in long-lasting relationships, but there are possible alternatives as well.

• 17:53Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's interesting.

• 17:56Lewis Howes?

  I want to go back to what we were talking about a little bit before in terms of 3D, 5D, brain states. I guess my question is, you know, we're in the three-dimensional world right now, 3D. But from my understanding, 5D allows us to manifest faster. It's like kind of skipping time. It's not, it's not saying you have to push things forward in the physical, material world. You're jumping time, in a sense. I hope that makes sense. And when we use our brain to think about something, we're sending a signal into space, into time, space, our environment, consciousness. We're putting a signal out into the world. And maybe sometimes when we think about someone,

• 18:41Lewis Howes?

  we're sending that signal to the other person, right? Potentially. And if we send a signal out consistently, we're signaling to the world. And if we fill our hearts with love and gratitude and harmony and peace in a beautiful state, a flourishing state of abundance, we're signaling something out and we're drawing it back in through the heart. Is that a bunch of baloney? Or is that something that you can back by science to support our energy, our thoughts, our way of being, and connect it to the actions we take on a daily basis?

• 19:15Dr. Tara Swart?

  That's a really beautiful way that you've put it and a great question as well. And so I just want to start that story with a few things like, if you think about what you and I watched as sci fi when we were kids, so much of that is true now.

• 19:29Lewis Howes?

  It's happening.

• 19:30Dr. Tara Swart?

  Yeah. And things that we used to think about the brain, like one way that we used to treat mental illnesses was by doing a frontal lobotomy or cutting the corpus callosum that, you know, like bridges the left and right hemispheres. We thought we were doing a good thing.

• 19:46Dr. Tara Swart?

  I have actually given patients electroconvulsive therapy in my career, so not that long ago. And not because I wanted to, but I had a patient that came to me and said, you know, I've got a long history of depression. And when it gets to the point that I don't want to eat and drink, the only thing that helps me quick enough that I don't have to suffer for weeks is E C T. And I said, are you sure you don't want to try, you know, there are some modern antidepressants now that, you know, have an effect in a couple of weeks. And she was like, no, I'm not eating, I'm not drinking. I'm totally depressed. I just want E C T. So I was like, okay.

• 20:23Dr. Tara Swart?

  But we don't generally do that so much anymore.

• 20:27Dr. Tara Swart?

  So our understanding of psychiatry, psychology, and then with the advent of brain scanning, how, you know, how healthy brains function has come a long way. Even at this conference at the weekend, that all the speakers were amazing, but a few of them mentioned right brain, left brain. And I said, I'm sorry, but I've got to stand up here and say, we really can't talk about the brain like that anymore. It's so much more complex and sophisticated with these amazing networks and subsystems. And it's just doing a big disservice to the brain to talk about.

• 21:00Lewis Howes?

  It's all connecting.

• 21:01Dr. Tara Swart?

  Yeah.

• 21:04Dr. Tara Swart?

  So in that sense, the research that most backs up what you're talking to, speaking to is, we can't prove all of that yet, but how we're getting there is through two main ways. One is looking at what happens in the brain with psychedelics. And how they can induce neuroplasticity. So I keep my eye on the research at Johns Hopkins because I, you know, it's like. To me, the best lab that's looking into that stuff. And so there are really great benefits from one or two doses spaced one to six months apart

• 21:45Dr. Tara Swart?

  of certain psychedelics in mental illnesses like depression and schizophrenia, potentially in grief as well.

• 21:55Dr. Tara Swart?

  But what's really interesting to me is that everything that you see that a psychedelic can achieve relatively quickly,

• 22:05Dr. Tara Swart?

  you can achieve yourself by sleeping right, eating right, breathing right, and meditating.

• 22:12Lewis Howes?

  Let's go. So happy you're saying this because, you know, I have a lot of friends that swear by psychedelics. They say like, oh, this changed my life and it's opened me up and it's allowed me to see things differently. But I've been in many meditation intensive retreats that I feel like I'm seeing visions and I'm seeing like geometric shapes and pulsating and, you know, all these different things that we are creating ourselves within ourselves. You know, it's the chemicals, the pharmacy that we have in our brain and body that can manifest and create these things are so powerful

• 22:51Lewis Howes?

  that I think if trained continually, it's hard work, but if trained properly and continually with the right teaching, can have just as powerful effects, if not more powerful, healing benefits than an outside pharmacy. That's just my belief. I may be wrong, but it sounds like from your research, that's true.

• 23:10Dr. Tara Swart?

  I'm so glad, I'm so glad you said that because I know it's particularly popular in LA as well, you know.

• 23:15Lewis Howes?

  Oh, yeah. Everyone's talking about microdosing and ayahuasca and everything.

• 23:19Dr. Tara Swart?

  And my concern is that.

• 23:21Lewis Howes?

  And they're swearing by it. It's helping them, you know, immensely. And I'm like, cool, if it's helping you, cool. But can you try other things too?

• 23:30Lewis Howes?

  Changing your brain chemistry from the outside in, but rather from the inside out.

• 23:35Dr. Tara Swart?

  I think there's a couple of other things around that. One is that if it's not, if it's not, you know, in a hospital or a lab, under like proper supervision with qualified people, then A, how do you know how pure the source of whatever you're taking is? You know, in the sixties, there were so many bad like LSD trips that happened to people. So what happens if something goes wrong? And there's no one trained there that can help you. Neuroplasticity, as I remember we discussed before, is not always good. It can be bad. You know, you obsess over a breakup. You're just wiring into your brain.

• 24:07Lewis Howes?

  You stay in it for years, this grief.

• 24:09Dr. Tara Swart?

  And so can these psychedelics do that as well?

• 24:12Lewis Howes?

  It can keep you trapped in a depressive state.

• 24:14Dr. Tara Swart?

  They can even like, yeah, like they can make things more negative because how do you know where that mushroom or whatever it is that you're taking is going to induce neuroplasticity in your brain? How are you directing that? If you've got no experience of that, you know? So that is a bit of a concern. When they did the ayahuasca research at Johns Hopkins, they used the pure ayahuasca. When you do it in ceremony, it's mixed with something that makes you purge.

• 24:40Lewis Howes?

  Makes you throw up and feel sick.

• 24:42Dr. Tara Swart?

  Yeah, and have diarrhea potentially as well. Yeah. So the purging.

• 24:46Lewis Howes?

  I don't want that.

• 24:47Dr. Tara Swart?

  I know, no, I know.

• 24:48Lewis Howes?

  Who wants to go through that?

• 24:49Dr. Tara Swart?

  It completely pisses me off. Some people don't mind it so much, but it's done because it symbolizes a massive release.

• 24:56Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 24:57Dr. Tara Swart?

  And that's part of.

• 24:58Lewis Howes?

  And a rebirth.

• 24:59Dr. Tara Swart?

  Yes, exactly.

• 25:05Matthew Hussey?

  I think for a lot of people, especially those who are playing the field and experiencing different people and whatever, there is a kind of being single is this dopaminogenic cycle. And it's hard to get off that cycle because you're kind of wired, you're wired for it now. You're wired for instant gratification. You're wired for variety and excitement and what next? And the dramas of the first few weeks of knowing someone and the romance of like just figuring each other out and all of that is like, and texts and phone buzzing and, you know, this and that. And this person's now called and it's like a frantic sort of dopamine

• 25:49Matthew Hussey?

  engine that you get stuck in and at a certain point. You have to come to value something else more. Because otherwise, and this happens, of course, routinely, is people get locked into that cycle. And it was clear to me at a certain point, oh, this happiness doesn't lie here for me. Anxiety lies here for me. Uncertainty. Uncertainty is having an effect on on the way I see the world or myself, or this is not. This is not gonna serve me long term, but that doesn't, just because you realize that.

• 26:32Matthew Hussey?

  It doesn't mean that you immediately have an appreciation of what the other thing is. Or that you even know what it looks like, or what package it comes in, or you don't know any of those things. And so you, you know, there's a whole chapter I wrote, I wrote in this book that I'm really insanely proud of. Because I think it's so on the money of what's happening for so many people. It's called Never Satisfied. And that, I think, is the feeling. I explain the steps of why it is we struggle to be satisfied. And the next chapter is how to rewire your brain so that you can actually rewire yourself for happiness. Because I know for a long time I was that never satisfied.

• 27:16Matthew Hussey?

  In relationships or just? Yeah, my love life, I think in life too, right? Right, right. But in in my love life, I was just chasing, chasing, chasing, chasing, chasing. Dopamine, dopamine, I'm not happy, I need to get out of this relationship. I'm single, dopamine, dopamine, I'm not happy here. I, you know, like, there must be some perfect person who's gonna make me feel differently about this whole thing. And I'm gonna feel different when I meet that person. And that person didn't come because it wasn't really about that. Something was going on with me. I was, I was in that cycle and

• 27:54Matthew Hussey?

  it and it, the other thing that is available to you is so. I don't wanna, this isn't a, this isn't a lecture on whether someone should be single or in a relationship. So I don't wanna become that person. Sure, sure. But I, what is so amazing about a healthy relationship is not available to you.

• 28:19Matthew Hussey?

  Until you come to value something different. It's like someone who's been used to doing drugs every day. And then the day that you that you get them to quit drugs, you sit them outside their house in front of a beautiful field and you say, appreciate the sunset.

• 28:41Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, there's no dopamine rush anymore.

• 28:42Matthew Hussey?

  A sunset is amazing, like a sunset is an awe inspiring, unbelievable thing. It's something that is mind blowing. Why do we all go on holiday and everyone at the same time goes out onto the beach? And watches the sunset because there's something stunning and magical about a sunset. But for the person who's been doing drugs every day, that's not the day you can appreciate a sunset. You you are coming out of all of those feelings that you've been addicted to and all of that, like instant gratification, dopamine. So it's about like, again, it's nervous system stuff, right?

• 29:27Matthew Hussey?

  It's retraining my nervous system. And this is some of the stuff we talk about in how to rewire your brain. But it's you have to orient yourself towards a different goal. And in the beginning, you can't expect the new thing to feel like the old thing. Cause it's not, it's not gonna feel like the old thing. But the more you lean into the new thing, it you develop an appreciation for how much better it actually feels. And that's like a kind of stunning and eye opening realization. And I'm I feel really passionate about this because I see a lot of really unhappy people.

• 30:09Matthew Hussey?

  I was one of them, by the way, who are stuck in those cycles. And and I think there's a lot of. I think there's a lot of people who get stuck in optimization cycles in their love life. Where it's like, especially Taipei people. Not everyone does, but a lot of people do where it's like, I'm trying to find the perfect thing and I'm trying to and if someone's missing this thing, I'm going to optimize and go for another person who's like got all the good things about this person, but and also that thing. And it's like, people don't work like that. You exchange one basket basket of ingredients for another basket of ingredients. And you'll get new good stuff and new bad stuff and challenging stuff and

• 30:56Matthew Hussey?

  you, I'm a huge believer. I think the settling is a word that has has a really unfairly negative connotation. And it shouldn't. There's something amazing about that word. You can change the meaning of of that depending on the word that goes after it. So if you say, if you tell someone you have to settle for something, that feels immediately negative, right? It's like settling down. Yeah, because I feel like I'm being shortchanged. But if you say settling on something, that changes it because you, Lewis, settled on a particular business and brand. Yes.

• 31:39Matthew Hussey?

  You, you're such a capable person, you could have done a hundred different things in this lifetime and you would have been a success at them. Right. So how the hell do you decide which one you should do? You found one that scratched the itch in a bunch of different ways. It allowed you to be creative. It allowed you to broadcast, which is something you're really good at. It allowed you to connect, which is something you're really good at. It allowed you to, you know, harness all of these relationships, which is something you're really great at is relationships. It allowed you to put to work your strategy mind. It allowed you to be competitive, which is something that's in your bones. And, and so

• 32:16Matthew Hussey?

  this business, it ticked a lot of boxes for you. But it's not the only business that would have ticked boxes for you. There are other things you could have done that would have ticked boxes. But you settled on greatness. Yes. And you said, I'm gonna go all in on this and I'm gonna keep going on this. And the thing that has made what you do so great and what you have done is extraordinary. What you've built, the, the audience you've built, the platforms you've built, the body of work you've built. It's extraordinary, but it's not extraordinary because you found an extraordinary thing. You didn't find the word greatness and, and like, you know, you just went, I've got the, if you'd have said to me like

• 33:00Matthew Hussey?

  fifteen years ago, we didn't know each other then, but when you started, if you'd have said to me, Matt, I've got the greatest idea. I am gonna take the word greatness and I am gonna just own that world and word and build a brand out of it. And do all of the, I would have been like, that's not an idea.

• 33:20Matthew Hussey?

  So you've taken a common word in the English language. You talk about it. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Like, but that's not what's made this extraordinary. What's made this extraordinary is that you have settled on it. And you keep, you take this thing to another level every year. And people who are looking at you going, there's, you've got a lot of, I've, I've, I've walked with you in the street in Vegas on holiday in places on, when we've traveled, you have people coming up to you everywhere you go. And you're a hero to so many people and so many people wanna create what you've created or wanna be where you are. But you didn't, you didn't start with this really special thing.

• 34:03Matthew Hussey?

  You spent year after year after year making a really special thing. And every year I see you take the same core thing and stick with it again. Yeah. Not go, you know what? Now what I really wanna do is now I really wanna do real estate. Yeah, I'm, I'm over this. I'm gonna move on to something greater. Yeah, it's not, that's not it for you. You're like, I'm gonna make this thing even better. I think that's how people should approach relation, approach relationships. And that's my point is that you settle, when, the thing that makes a relationship, the greatest relationship of your life is that you take someone who ticks the boxes for you. And that's the starting point.

• 34:43Matthew Hussey?

  But then, based on the values you each bring, and I think there are some very powerful values for a relationship, like being growth oriented, like teamwork.

• 34:54Matthew Hussey?

  Like loyalty, like prioritizing the vision of the relationship. Think when you take those things and you put those two people like that together. What they start with is not nearly as interesting as what they will create together. And and you can only create that if you settle on a person, but you will never settle on a person as long as you are looking for the perfect person as a starting point. Because the perfect relationship doesn't exist at the beginning. But the perfect relationship for you can exist over time. If you settle on someone and you resolve to make that relationship as good as it can possibly be.

• 35:38Matthew Hussey?

  And that's why I get I get so excited about my relationship because I'm like, it's amazing right now. It's gonna be even better in six months.

• 35:46Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 35:47Matthew Hussey?

  Because we're building something together.

• 35:49Lewis Howes?

  Martha says that to me all the time. She's like, how do I love you even more today than I did, you know, last week? And I think it's because we're both focused on growing ourselves individually and growing the relationship together. And I'm sure there's going to be adversities and challenges we face, but us facing it together makes us even more connected and appreciate each other even more.

• 36:10Matthew Hussey?

  And there's something even fun about that, that when you know you're an amazing team, there's even something fun about knowing that there's going to be challenges and the two and how you're going to solve those as a team because you're a killer team.

• 36:21Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 36:22Matthew Hussey?

  Like that's that's even that, there's something exciting about it.

• 36:24Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 36:25Matthew Hussey?

  So, you know, I think we we almost have to pay attention to some of these ideas we have about love and relationships is, you know, the way we use words like settling. Are you settling for someone or are you settling on someone? That will change. If you settle for someone, you'll become passive and resentful in that relationship. If you see it like you settled on someone, of any choice you could have made, you chose this person. And because you chose it, you're going to lean into it and you're going to make it as great as it can possibly be, that relationship. That will change the way you approach relationships. The same is true of the word commitment. This is amazing. This is such a fantastic example of the point I'm making.

• 37:09Matthew Hussey?

  If you look up, I think it's in Apple Dictionary, I don't know how it's reflected in the Oxford Dictionary. But if you go on your Mac and you type in the word commitment. There are two different definitions that come up. Really, what does it say? One is a, I think it reads, and people can go and look for themselves and get the exact wording right. But one of them says roughly, "A obligation that restricts freedom of action." Hmm, wow. Right? Now, if you, you give me someone that has that as their definition of commitment, and I'll show you someone who has a hard time ever being in a relationship. But there's another definition of commitment under that one.

• 37:54Matthew Hussey?

  And it says, "Commitment, dedication to a cause."

• 38:00Matthew Hussey?

  Now, when you think of dedication to a cause, it creates a completely different energy in your body. "I'm dedicated to this cause. I'll fight for this cause. I'll do anything for this cause." Like, there is a, there's something heroic about that. "I'm dedicated to the cause of our relationship, of our future, of our vision, of where we're going." There's something stunningly beautiful about that. Dedication to a cause, an obligation that restricts freedom.

• 38:34Matthew Hussey?

  One is about shrinking your world, and the other one enlarges it.

• 38:44Matthew Hussey?

  There are so many people out there struggling with the idea of committing, whether it's to a business, an idea, a path, a country, a person,

• 38:58Matthew Hussey?

  a new sport.

• 39:01Matthew Hussey?

  And your definitions around these words, the way you choose to see them, is gonna determine your ability to stay with something, to invest in something. And I think that's so fascinating. I really do. Yeah.

• 39:19Lewis Howes?

  This is big, man. There's so many more questions I want to ask you, but I want to, I want people to get the book because I know you're going to answer a lot of these questions in here as well. Love Life: How to Raise Your Standards, Find Your Person, and Live Happily No Matter What. So make sure you guys get a few copies. If you have a friend who's been struggling in relationships, get them a copy as well. If you know someone that just went through a breakup, get them a copy. If you know someone who's in a healthy relationship, get them a copy so they can still use these tools to improve their relationship as well. Love Life. Where can they go and get this copy? Is there a way we can get some extra goodies or bonuses? Or should we just go on Amazon? Where should we go?

• 39:58Matthew Hussey?

  You can definitely get it from Amazon or Barnes and Noble or wherever you get your books, but we actually have a website, lovelifebook.com.

• 40:07Lewis Howes?

  There's so many great concepts in here. Again, How to Rewire Your Brain. I love the chapter in here about if you know you want to leave, but you don't know how to leave, it teaches people how to get out of a relationship the right way.

• 40:21Matthew Hussey?

  Yeah, there's, there is a lot of talk in there. That's a big chapter on anyone who's in a toxic, abusive, or narcissistic relationship. And, and you can apply that, by the way, across the board, not just to your love life, but if there's family relationships that you're struggling with and you don't know what to do about them, that's a very hard hitting chapter. There's chapters on confidence in there, which is why this has mass appeal. I, I want to say this just to, just to, because I think it's important for people to hear. I have come to believe that there are three relationships we are all in in life. One is our relationship with other people. The second is our relationship with ourselves. And the third is our relationship with life itself. And these are three relationships that you can't get out of.

• 41:05Matthew Hussey?

  You're, for as long as you're here on this planet, you are in these three relationships. And these relationships, the quality of them, will determine your happiness in this world. So we better focus on those relationships. And that's, in many ways, this book is designed not just to be a book for people who are looking to find love, but a book for people who are looking to improve those relationships. And I talk about my own journey, even I talk about some times where I fell out of love with life because I was, you know, handed some difficult cards along the way and struggled. Uh, and you know, maybe we could talk about it on another episode, but you know, was in a

• 41:50Matthew Hussey?

  very dark place and a very depressed place. And I, I talk in the book about how I improved the, the tools that I use to improve my relationship with life in the hardest times of my life. And that, that, you know, the, that's why the double meaning in the title of this book is so important to me. This isn't just about your love life. It's about your love for life. And it's why that last line, you know, how to raise your standards, find your person and live happily no matter what was really, really important to me. So I don't think this is just a book about finding love. This is a, I believe that this is a book that will get passed around for people who are struggling with all sorts of things in their lives.

• 42:31Lewis Howes?

  That's cool, man. And, and again, if you don't have a good relationship with life, you're probably not going to have a good relationship with yourself. And if you don't have a good relationship with yourself, how are you going to find someone that you can actually love and appreciate without being jaded on them trying to hurt you in some way? So you need to have a healthy relationship on all three areas or those first two at least, if you want to have a healthy relationship with someone else and trusting them in your life and opening your heart to them, knowing everything you know now from being in multiple different relationships, going through breakups, being in challenging situations and, and love, being single and dating a bunch of people over the years. Uh, you know, now being married, if you could give your 18 year old self, three pieces

• 43:14Lewis Howes?

  of advice about love that you wish you would have known then that you know now, what would those three things be?

• 43:21Matthew Hussey?

  Three on the spot is hard, by the way.

• 43:23Lewis Howes?

  If you imagine.

• 43:25Matthew Hussey?

  I got it though.

• 43:25Lewis Howes?

  Eighteen year old Matthew sitting in front of you.

• 43:29Lewis Howes?

  Saying, I just want to find love and I just want to, I just want to feel loved and I want to find a great, I want to have a good family and be married one day. And you get to sit in front of him with all the wisdom that you have now and all the heartache and all the pain and all the love that you've experienced. What are you going to say to, to your younger self?

• 43:48Matthew Hussey?

  Um, I think the first thing I would say is that it's.

• 43:54Matthew Hussey?

  It's not, this is gonna sound cheesy, but I, I, I really mean it.

• 44:01Matthew Hussey?

  I, I would start by saying it's not your fault that you are the way you are. That these things that you think are a sign that you're broken, whether it's your shyness, or your anxiety, or feeling like you're, you know, terrified of rejection, or that you're not good enough. I, you, you know, these things are either, they've either been part of you from the beginning, or they are a response to things that have happened in your life. You know, I'm not saying everything is nurture. Some of, some of it is just our DNA, right?

• 44:40Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 44:41Matthew Hussey?

  Our brain, but either way, you know, these things that you keep judging yourself for, and telling yourself that you're broken for, they, they deserve compassion because they're not, you didn't choose them, you know? And I, and, and the reason I think that's important from a love life context is because the, what I lacked for so much of my life was self compassion. I thought I wasn't good enough. I thought that, you know, deep down, I was shameful. I was ugly. I was, um, unlovable. I was bad, like not a good person. You know, I was just.

• 45:27Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 45:27Matthew Hussey?

  Like just not, you know, like, if people really knew who I was, I, they would think I was disgusting and pathetic and weak and unlovable. And, um. And I'm not saying all of this was always conscious, but it was on some level, this must have been how I was feeling because I was really deeply afraid to be seen.

• 45:57Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 45:58Matthew Hussey?

  And so I would have, I would have said it's okay that you're, like you're, you're okay. You're like the way you are, you didn't, it's not because you're broken or that you made choices to be there. It's that you're responding to something.

• 46:12Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 46:13Matthew Hussey?

  And that would, that would give me self compassion.

• 46:17Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 46:17Matthew Hussey?

  And the second thing I would say to myself is, is share those things. Now, I don't know how well it would have gone for me at eighteen to share those things with, with girls my age.

• 46:30Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 46:30Matthew Hussey?

  But in general, I would have said as a lesson for life, share those things because that, everyone else is also, in all the ways you fear you're broken, everyone else is too. And if you can share that with other people, you, that is going to be your ultimate power. I spent my twenties, Lewis, you know, I was coaching people and I was lucky enough like you to be quite known.

• 46:58Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 46:59Matthew Hussey?

  Relatively speaking, you know, as a twenty five year old, I, you know, made a bit of a name for myself and a lot of people knew who I was and, and I, and I never really allowed myself to truly just be myself because I was trying to be something else. I was trying to like be impressive.

• 47:18Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 47:19Matthew Hussey?

  And these days I'm much more focused on connecting.

• 47:22Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 47:23Matthew Hussey?

  With people. So you and I would never have had this interview ten years ago.

• 47:26Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 47:26Matthew Hussey?

  The first ever.

• 47:27Lewis Howes?

  Press too much or yeah.

• 47:28Matthew Hussey?

  Yeah, the first, I'm sure the first interview we did together was, was strong. Because it's fun sometimes when someone is being impressive, right? We get to watch someone, you know, do their thing, but this, this now,

• 47:41Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 47:42Matthew Hussey?

  This wouldn't happen ten years ago because I, I wasn't sharing myself in that way.

• 47:47Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 47:47Matthew Hussey?

  So I would say share yourself because that's the route to real connection, real friendships, real love. And, and then the third thing I would say to myself is,

• 48:00Matthew Hussey?

  Have compassion for these flaws in other people.

• 48:07Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 48:08Matthew Hussey?

  Because, you know, I I spent way too much of my life writing people off or judging people for things that they were struggling with. You know, and things I didn't like about the way they did this or that or the way that insecurity showed up or the way. And and, oh, like, honestly, man, I I look back on it now and I'm like, they were me.

• 48:35Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 48:37Matthew Hussey?

  They were me, like, I I they only didn't know that that was me because I wasn't being vulnerable with them for, you know, I didn't even offer them the ability to have compassion with my deeper flaws or my insecurities or my vulnerabilities because I never shared them.

• 48:55Lewis Howes?

  You didn't reveal them, yeah.

• 48:56Matthew Hussey?

  No, because I I didn't, I judged those things in myself. And when you judge them in yourself, you judge them in other people. And the the more in my life I've developed space for myself and who I am, eh, the more compassionate I've become with myself, the more compassionate I've become with other people, the greater my capacity to love other people for who they really are. I have found it easier to love other people, the more that I have learned to love myself and the more compassion I've developed for my own complexities and the things that make me a difficult and complicated. And it's made me able to love other people more because now that I'm making more space for myself, I also make

• 49:39Matthew Hussey?

  space for for the way that other people are and the things that that those things on the surface that are easy to judge, the the things that the the deeper wounds that those things represent that they're struggling with. Having that compassion for yourself breeds compassion for other people.

• 49:59Lewis Howes?

  You mentioned something about learning to accept love. I'm curious, can you truly accept and feel loved by someone else if you don't learn to love yourself?

• 50:10Speaker 03

  I don't know, I don't think so, yeah. Because if, because you don't believe it.

• 50:14Lewis Howes?

  Eh.

• 50:15Speaker 03

  You know, if you think you don't, are undeserving of love, you think that, you know, you're not good enough. When someone says, I think you're great and I love you, you honestly will think they're lying to you.

• 50:29Lewis Howes?

  Even if you're chasing them and even if you're trying to be with them?

• 50:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, even, yeah, you'll, yeah, you might feel valid or special, you like to get that kind of, that fix, you know? I refer a lot of relationship advice, like food advice, you know, that I always refer to people as like Sour Patch Kids. I had this like epiphany, I was like, what, how can I, I was explaining to, I was dating an actress at the time and her sister was asking me for relationship advice and she was talking about this guy over and over about like, he would go out with me, you know, we'd do all these boyfriend and girlfriend things and then they would hook up and then he would disappear and then she'd feel like crap afterwards. And I'm like, you know who he is? He's a Sour Patch Kid. She was like, what do you mean? And I was just like, well, like when I eat Sour Patch Kids, I love them.

• 51:14Speaker 03

  I mean, even when I talk about it right now, my mouth is salivating, you know, just thinking about it. And every once in a while, I'll indulge in a bag of Sour Patch Kids. But every time I eat it, even though I get that fix and it's so good going in, I inevitably always feel like crap because, well, they're crappy food. Nothing about Sour Patch Kids will nourish your body. You can't, you're not going to get healthy out of putting Sour Patch Kids in your body. So you, that fix is always followed by that hangover of being crappy. And a lot of people are kind of that Sour Patch Kids or that hangover of that fix of validation, that temporary, short-term feeling of excitement, the euphoria of feeling enough,

• 51:56Speaker 03

  only followed by that kind of hangover of not feeling good enough. So back to you, like if you don't really love yourself and you don't truly believe it, you know, they might compliment you, they might say this, I love you and you're kind of caught off guard and you're feeling good, but then you'll, then you'll get in your head, you'll be like, well, do they really? Are you sure? You know, they can't really love me. It's just like you look in the mirror and you're kind of disgusted with yourself. And then, you know, it will be followed by that hangover of, of that kind of, that, that excitement going away. And so, yeah, I think it really is important to truly be comfortable with who you are. As I get older, I'm sure you've done this too. Like, again, there's a, you, you're never a finished product. Like, I always want to work on myself.

• 52:41Speaker 03

  I always want to work on my bad habits, of which I have many. But I also have gotten to the point in my life, and I remember a moment when I, Nana and I first started dating, and she was giving me a hard time because I don't ever close cabinet doors. You know, I leave things open. I'm a very disorganized person. And I said to her, I'm like, listen, I promise you'll always work on this, but I just want you to know,

• 53:06Speaker 03

  this is also who I am. You know, this is, I've never been good at this, you know? And I remember, and, you know, I was kind of half joking, but like, just me being able to say that to her and just say, I have some really bad habits. And honestly, my brain works a certain way that I'm just, I've, I've, I've tried so hard to be good at this stuff and, and correct it, but it's, it's as hard for me. I, I don't know how to, like, I don't know how to do this.

• 53:31Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 53:32Speaker 03

  And just to say that out loud to her, and young, 23-year-old me,

• 53:39Speaker 03

  would nev-, I would never have acknowledged that. Oh, yeah, no, I can do that. Oh, yeah, I'll, I'm right on that, babe. I'll, I'll master that. I'll, you know, I was never willing to acknowledge that there's some things that are just really hard for me.

• 53:49Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 53:49Speaker 03

  I'm really not good at this. I'm really going to struggle with this. This is a weakness of mine.

• 53:54Lewis Howes?

  And when you can say that and someone else can see and accept it.

• 53:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, and say, you know, it's annoying, but okay. You know, I'll put up with it. Yeah, accept it. Like, it's a lot easier. Because even if those little things of, of pretending that you're somehow going to master closing cabinet doors and never be forgivable, you know that you're not being honest with yourself. You know you're not being honest with them. And then that subconscious brain feels like they're going to find out about me. And usually, our bad habits could run much deeper than not being able to close cabinet doors. And so that subconscious and fear thought of they're going to find out who I really am, I think will often lead to that, like, fear of abandonment and rejection and always kind of live, live in that state of like fear of like not being enough and things like that.

• 54:38Lewis Howes?

  Why do you think so many people settle in relationships for something they know is not right for them?

• 54:44Speaker 03

  Fear of finding it elsewhere, I think, yeah. Fear of wasted time, you know, I, I think, you know, be about to be a father for the first time, I wanna, I wanna figure out how I can teach my daughter perspective, which I don't know if you can. I remember going through a heartbreak after my fiance cheated on me. We were living together and I didn't wanna keep living with her. So I moved in with grandma, who, who also lived in downtown Milwaukee at the time. She's a hip grandma, but grandma nonetheless, that was very embarrassing for me. How old are you now? Uh, twenty-eight. Twenty-eight, yeah. It ended up being a very memorable moment of my life, but at the time I was cold. living with a lot of shame. Yes.

• 55:28Speaker 03

  And my grandma, uh, my grandfather left her for other women, uh, when she was in like in the seventies and she had to raise five kids on her own in a time where a lot, a lot of people were getting divorced and a lot, when a lot, not a lot of women in the workforce. So she had shame from that. She had a shared experience. Shared experience, but she also had the perspective and she ended up dating and, you know, and, and she taught me that like, you know, well, I, I was at a time where I thought my life was over. I'm, I'm a failure. I'm a twenty-eight-year-old man. I'm almost thirty and I've had nothing but failed relationships, so much so that now I've been engaged and I got cheated on and I bought this ring and I'm, I'm an embarrassment to myself and my friend. And that's how I truly felt.

• 56:13Speaker 03

  And she taught me that my life wasn't over. In fact, it was probably just beginning, that you're only twenty-eight and, you know, I don't know when I'm gonna die, but I was, she was banking on the fact that I would live as long as she had and, and I had a lot of years left and I might have some more loves that might not work out and life is definitely a journey. And when you find that right person, it might be much longer than you realize, but from now you might have to be more patient, but like, you know, there's so many opportunities to reinvent yourself, which I, I really grateful that I learned from my grandmother, Phyllis. And I think back to that guy, that twenty-year-old man, and I think about how many times I've now reinvented myself, only at forty-three years old, you know?

• 56:58Speaker 03

  I went from, I was. An accounting major, got a job as an accountant. Then I decided to get into sales. Had a successful sales career in corporate America. Quit that, left that, went on reality TV. Had a little stint on reality TV and then got into, you know, podcasting and being, you know, really interested in relationships and social dynamics. And, you know, now I'm, you know, doing what I'm doing now. But who knows how long I'm gonna do this, you know? Hopefully for a long time, but you never know. Life brings you challenges and just, you know, I think we think that once we in our twenties, that we somehow have to lock in to whatever it is we're doing. And that fear of, you know, starting over is, I think, scary for a lot of people.

• 57:41Speaker 03

  But I have learned and, you know, that sometimes starting over is really the best, just to press that reset button. It's never really too late to press that reset button, to, to, to reinvent yourself into something completely different. You know? I can't think of how many times in my twenties, when I thought to myself, hey, what if I went back to school? Or what if I did that? And thinking, oh, that's three years, three year commitment. I gotta do that. And then three years would go by. And then I would think back and look, I remember that time three years ago. And I was thinking about what if I went back to school? And I thought to myself, I haven't really done anything that significant in those three years. And had I gone back to school, I would have been where I wanted to be, but I didn't do anything. And why didn't I, you know? And then I stopped doing that.

• 58:26Speaker 03

  I started being more of a doer and saying yes to things. I wasn't much of a risk taker in my twenties. I've become a big risk taker later in life, you know? Quit my job, go on this TV show, move out to LA, was, was kind of a hope and dream. But yeah, I played it kind of close to the vest in my twenties. And I realized that didn't get me very far.

• 58:43Lewis Howes?

  Interesting, man. This is fascinating. Now, Natalie, right? Since your fiance.

• 58:51Lewis Howes?

  Have you guys picked a name for your?

• 58:54Speaker 03

  We have.

• 58:54Lewis Howes?

  Good child? Is that public yet or not? Okay, cool.

• 58:57Speaker 03

  I'll tell you afterwards.

• 58:57Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, tell me afterwards. But you got a girl coming, right?

• 59:00Speaker 03

  I have a girl. We have a girl coming.

• 59:03Lewis Howes?

  Yes. I'm curious, what do you really want her to know as she grows up in terms of how to get into a healthy relationship? Fast forward 20, 23 years from now. She's graduated college.

• 59:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 59:17Lewis Howes?

  She's where you were at 23. What do you really want her to know? And what do you want to teach her about love, relationships, intimacy, being with a man? And what that looks like?

• 59:29Speaker 03

  Well, one, I guess, you know, it sounds almost cheesy or cliche that that she's deserving of love, that she is truly loved. And I want my daughter and any kid I have after her to know that really they're kind of capable of anything. I want my kid to have perspective and I don't, you know, I want them to be hardworking. And but I don't want them, I want them to

• 59:55Speaker 03

  understand their value, I guess is what I'm trying to say.

• 1:00:00Speaker 03

  And their value comes from how they treat themselves and how they love their family and how they take care of the people they love. And I want them to understand that their time is not infinite and that their energy is not infinite. And that the people that they spend time with has a cost, everything, you know. And so anytime we have an interaction with someone when they start dating, to ask themselves, is this person like worth my time? You know, where is it getting me? You know, because I don't want my daughter to chase the wrong things. And I don't want my daughter to feel like she is not enough or that there's something inside that's missing.

• 1:00:45Speaker 03

  And instead of seeking out love that's going to make her feel content and safe and valued, I don't want her to go out there and chase something that just, you know, fills a void that she thinks she has. You know, so I hope to give her enough love and make her feel valued. And I want her to value the, hopefully the hard work she puts into whatever it is she wants to do or create, to know that her time is special and to not waste that on people who aren't going to prioritize her, who who might use her and things like that. And and also to, you know, respect the people around her and respect their time. You know, if she's going to expect people to value and prioritize her,

• 1:01:29Speaker 03

  then she has to be willing to do the same for those those people as well. I hope I answered your question. Sometimes you ask a question, I just.

• 1:01:37Lewis Howes?

  You know, we're both not fathers yet. So maybe you don't have the answer to this. But how do you think a father can teach their daughter how to feel loved and valued without needing a toxic man to chase them?

• 1:01:55Speaker 03

  Well, I think it is just giving them that love and attention. You know, I have a lot of, my fiance will joke about having her own daddy issues. You know, um, cause I think daddy issues can be a real thing. And I think sometimes when you grow up in a, you know, a lot of our trauma, you talked about this comes from our childhood. And if you're not loved and you're not cared for, I think it can create a void that you try to fill in toxic ways. And so I think really just being present and being around and paying attention and showing an interest in what they do. And not just be a parent, you know, like there's a balance, you know, it's like you want to be a parent and you want to teach them respect.

• 1:02:38Speaker 03

  And, you know, it's not just, it's not your job just to be their friend because, you know, they can have friends. But at the same time, you know, have a connection with your, your, your daughter or your kids, you know? I guess that's what I think, right? I don't want her to feel like she's not getting the love that she deserves from me. And that, um, I'd rather have my daughter say, hey dad, you know what? I know you love me. Thanks. You know, back off a little bit in a way, you know, kind of be annoyed with dad. Because ah dad, why do you have to, you know, rather than, it would break my heart to know that my daughter, um, wonders if I loved her or wonders why I don't spend enough time with her.

• 1:03:21Speaker 03

  Um, wonders why, you know, I prioritize other things over her. That would break my heart.

• 1:03:29Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:29Speaker 03

  And I don't want those actions to affect her, her adult life because, you know, they often can.

• 1:03:36Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. What do you think needs to die inside of you before your daughter is born? For you to be the best father you can be or something you need to let go of or step into?

• 1:03:47Speaker 03

  Part of that fear of abandonment is again, anytime you're operating under fear, it's you're just not making choices that are usually healthy.

• 1:03:55Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:03:56Speaker 03

  You know, I also, I don't want to pass my anxiety down to my daughter. And I can be a pretty anxious person.

• 1:04:01Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:04:02Speaker 03

  You know, I don't want my fears to become her fears, you know? And so unnecessarily worrying about things outside of my control is definitely something I don't want to pass down to my daughter.

• 1:04:13Lewis Howes?

  Right, right. That's good, that's good. You know, 20 years ago, when we got started getting into relationships and dating, things are a lot different today, it seems like, than they were 20 years ago. Where do you think things are going to be in 20 years when your daughter starts dating and being with boys and?

• 1:04:30Speaker 03

  I'm worried, yeah.

• 1:04:32Lewis Howes?

  We just got in the social media world, you know?

• 1:04:34Speaker 03

  It's gone too fast, you know? I think technology has made it easier and easier to disconnect from each other, you know? And we are social creatures. We, we need human connection. And technology has made it easier and easier to not connect with each other from human to human.

• 1:04:53Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:04:53Speaker 03

  The art of communication has been lost with people.

• 1:04:58Speaker 03

  And I'm really afraid that things like AI and technology will offer us non-human options to find some sort of connection. I'm, you know, it sounds almost sci-fi, but I don't think we're that far away from it. We're becoming lonelier and lonelier as a society. Men are even lonelier and lonelier. I saw a study recently about men are making less and less friends. And like, we're just, we're isolating more. And so, yeah, I am worried about that. I'm worried about, you know, the potential options for my daughter in terms of making connections. And I almost feel like there needs to be like a renaissance with dating,

• 1:05:40Speaker 03

  where we have to kind of go back to our roots and we have to limit our options and limit our choices. And, you know, we say things like being intentional, but, you know, we truly have to be. We start to ask, why are we dating? You know, what, you know, people go out and date and it's like, well, why are you doing it? Now we have this kind of hookup culture, you know, it's just like, eh, they're in my twenties. I'm going around and hook up with people. And listen, I'm not here to shame anyone if they want to go out and have some sex, but like, just be honest with yourself about what you're doing. Right. You know, and if, if you're really focused on meeting someone who's right for you, then you maybe have to reflect on maybe your past choices and, you know, who are the people you're choosing to go on dates with?

• 1:06:24Speaker 03

  You know, is it the person that will, you know, really give you that ego fix? Because you think they're really good looking or have a certain type of job or they have a certain type of value that you think that if you were able to land that person and will make you feel special. Um, and you have to start thinking about how is this person going to make you feel? How are you going to be able to connect with this person on a daily basis? Is this someone who is willing every day to prioritize your connection? Cause that's the thing, and that's something Nellie and I really focus on. And it's really helped us in our relationship because like, I think sometimes, I used to do this, you get in a relationship and it's like, I really like you. You know, like, will you be my boyfriend? Will you be my girlfriend? And then you decide, I was like, oh, I like this person.

• 1:07:08Speaker 03

  And most of the time when we date, once we meet someone we like and we decide we like them or we realize we like them, we actually stop getting to know them. You know, it's like, oh, now I like you and now I have to just keep making sure you like me. Instead of realizing, well, even though we like each other, there's a lot to learn about each other and you're going to grow as a person. I'm going to grow as a person and every, and then, and ask myself, how connected are we? You know, because that's a tangible thing that we can, we can actually measure. You know, today I feel less connected to you than I did the day before. Okay. Well, and then I can address that, you know? And there are days where Nellie and I will say, I just, I feel a little disconnected from you. Can we try to be more connected?

• 1:07:52Speaker 03

  In the past, I never, we never, I never used that language in relationships. And I didn't know how to quantify, you know, being in a fight or just, you know, feeling like, I just, you know, I think we've been kind of going through the motions. And so, you know, Nellie and I really focus on and, and, and it gives some actual thought to like, how connected we are. Because that's something we can name. And then it doesn't become anyone's fault. It's not like, why did you do this? Or you're always going out, you're always doing this. It's like, I just don't feel as connected to you. And I'm not, I don't know what it is. Let's just talk about it. Let's just figure it out. And then in that way, it's not being adversarial. You know, it's not pointing fingers.

• 1:08:35Speaker 03

  It's just, we prioritize our connection. It's that's, that's the kind of the lifeblood of our relationship. And so it's either, we're either coming close together, staying together, or moving further apart. And you know, we check in from time to time, you know, about how close we're feeling. And, and in our days, we're, you know, it's, I just feel a little distant from you. Disconnected. Disconnected. And so if nothing else, sometimes it's just holding each other's hand, you know? Um, we started prioritizing holding hands and going out in public and just, you know, always holding hands. And that just is a way, a very tangible way of literally being connected to your partner. But you can kind of feel that, you know?

• 1:09:19Speaker 03

  And sometimes that's just enough, you know, caressing each other and things like that. You know, it kind of sounds corny, but like make love without having sex sometimes, you know? And, and that way you can be more intentional with your connection. Because you know, especially with guys, sometimes you can have sex and it really has nothing to do with connecting. Right. Um, and so that's something I've had to learn too, in terms of really prioritizing my connection with my partner and going on my way to, you know, really make her feel seen and be present and pay attention to her and listen to what she's saying, because those are all things I've struggled with. That's beautiful, man.

• 1:09:56Lewis Howes?

  I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social. Media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you if no one has told you

• 1:10:36Lewis Howes?

  lately that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.