Jet Li on Inner Peace, Ego, and What True Strength Looks Like

Behind Jet Li https://www.instagram.com/jetli/’s martial arts mastery and international fame is a deeply personal journey to understand purpose, ego, and freedom. In today’s episode, he sits down with Ryan to discuss the three levels of martial arts, how surviving the 2004 tsunami changed his life, and what he believes is the highest form of strength. Jet Li https://www.instagram.com/jetli/ is a martial artist, actor, philanthropist, film producer, and author. He became the youngest national martial arts champion in Chinese history at twelve years old and went on to become one of the most internationally recognized Chinese film stars of all time, with roles in Shaolin Temple, Once Upon a Time in China, Fist of Legend, Hero, Fearless, Romeo Must Die, Lethal Weapon 4, The Expendables, and Disney’s live-action Mulan. Beyond film, Jet has spent more than thirty years studying Buddhism and has devoted much of his life to philanthropy. After surviving the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami with his family, he founded One Foundation https://www.globalgiving.org/donate/15390/one-foundation/, a charitable organization focused on disaster relief, mental health, and grassroots giving. His new book is Beyond Life and Death: The Way of True Freedom. https://www.thepaintedporch.com/products/beyond-life-and-death-the-way-of-true-freedom?_pos=1&_sid=ec5250c7b&_ss=r Follow Jet Li on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/jetli/ | @jetli https://www.instagram.com/jetli/ 📚 Grab signed copies of Beyond Life and Death by Jet Li https://www.thepaintedporch.com/products/beyond-life-and-death-the-way-of-true-freedom?_pos=1&_sid=ec5250c7b&_ss=r at The Painted Porch | https://www.thepaintedporch.com/ https://www.thepaintedporch.com/products/beyond-life-and-death-the-way-of-true-freedom?_pos=1&_sid=ec5250c7b&_ss=r 🎟️ DAILY STOIC LIVE https://www.dailystoiclive.com/| Ryan Holiday is coming to a city near you https://www.dailystoiclive.com/! Grab tickets here https://www.dailystoiclive.com/ | https://www.dailystoiclive.com/ 🎙️ AD-FREE https://dailystoic.supercast.com/| Support the podcast and go deeper into Stoicism by subscribing to The Daily Stoic Premium https://dailystoic.supercast.com/ - unlock ad-free listening, early access, and bonus content: https://dailystoic.supercast.com/ https://dailystoic.supercast.com/ 🎥 VIDEO EPISODES https://www.youtube.com/@DailyStoic/videos| Watch the video episodes on The Daily Stoic YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/@DailyStoic/videos: https://www.youtube.com/@DailyStoic/videos https://www.youtube.com/@DailyStoic/videos ✉️ FREE STOIC WISDOM https://dailystoic.com/dailyemail | Want Stoic wisdom delivered to your inbox daily? Sign up for the FREE Daily Stoic email at https://dailystoic.com/dailyemail https://dailystoic.com/dailyemail -- Stop online threats before they become real-world attacks. Visit ironwall.com/DAILYSTOIC and request a free Risk Assessment to see exactly how exposed your executives are. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Ryan Holiday?

  Welcome to the Daily Stoic Podcast, designed to help bring those four key Stoic virtues, courage, discipline, justice, and wisdom into the real world.

• 0:15Ryan Holiday?

  One of the great misunderstandings of martial arts is that it's about fighting, that it's about speed and power and dominance and the infliction of pain, that it's ultimately about winning, about destroying or incapacitating someone else. But the deeper tradition has always been, well, something deeper. Not just self-mastery and discipline, control, self-control, but also stillness, wisdom, peace, tranquility. This goes back to Musashi. This goes back to the martial artists and samurai who wrote haikus and made watercolors. They understood that martial arts was something physical,

• 0:59Ryan Holiday?

  but it was also primarily about the mind, that it was also a metaphor. I think the Stoics would have understood this. Certainly, the Stoics wrestled and boxed and fought. This is why we see these metaphors pop up in Epictetus and Marcus Aurelius. Marcus Aurelius says, you know, "Life is not a dance. It is more akin to the role of the wrestler. You have to be dug in and ready for sudden attacks." And that's why I was really excited to talk to today's guest, the great Jet Li, one of the most iconic martial artists and film stars in the world. Shaolin Temple, Once Upon a Time in China, Hero, Fearless, Romeo Must Die, Lethal Weapon 4.

• 1:42Ryan Holiday?

  He was also in The Expendables and Disney's live-action version of Mulan. He was a national martial arts champion in China at like 12 years old. He helped bring Chinese martial arts cinema to the world. And he's spent decades talking about this deeper connection between martial arts, between philosophy, between Buddhism and training the mind. And that's what we talked about in today's episode, his childhood, what it was like to be great so young, how he met President Richard Nixon, who asked him to be his bodyguard, or at least joked about it. You know, and I wanted to know whether this martial arts thing was something he loved or he was pushed into. And in fact, Jet spent more than 30 years studying Buddhism.

• 2:26Ryan Holiday?

  And one of the big sort of pivot points in his life was the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami, which sort of drove him, not just to a reckoning about his mortality, but to be more charitable. He built this great organization called the One Foundation. I think this also ties into the title of the book, Beyond Life and Death. The Way of True Freedom is a lot about him and his daughter, who was there. She helped do some of the translating and they had a lovely relationship. And clearly, she helps him sort of navigate not just the language barrier, but the culture barrier and make his way in the world. It was very sweet. She, she sort of hung out in the studio with us when we did it. I thought the new book was great. It was really good. I've worked with his agent before, so when he suggested

• 3:11Ryan Holiday?

  that I might like to talk with Jet Li, I was like, "Are you serious?" Of course. So this is a convo where the martial arts and Stoicism meet, ultimately centering around this very Stoic idea that, that freedom is in the only place that it really can exist, which is, which is within. Thanks to Jet for coming out. You can follow him on Instagram, @jetli. And we've got some signed copies of Beyond Life and Death, at The Painted Porch, which you can grab. I'll link to that in today's show notes. Let's just get into it.

• 3:45Ryan Holiday?

  I thought the book was really good.

• 3:46Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 3:48Ryan Holiday?

  I was reading about your boyhood. It feels like there was basically pressure on you from day one.

• 3:53Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 3:56Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 3:56Ryan Holiday?

  How did that feel? Was it heavy or did you get used to it?

• 4:00Speaker 01

  I used to it because when I was a little boy, I don't know anything about, you know, when I was two years old, my daddy passed away. So family very poor, my mom only 34 years old. To raising my two older sister, two older brother, me, five children, you know. So very heavy, yeah, the family. Then from I remember already say, I need to try my best to helping my mom, helping my mom, you know, that's why I quite naughty, you know, I have little with this. And then eight years old, I started learning martial arts. Then I try my best. And then you got a little money.

• 4:45Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 4:46Speaker 01

  Then you can help mom. This is very important, very important. Then I know if I can keep get the champion and I can get more money to take care of the family. I tried so hard. In 1970s, I got a five-year champion martial art in Mingland, China. And also, it's nice things if I'm do a good job and I can represent Mingland, China to, you know, travel around the world. In 1974, I come States the first time.

• 5:18Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 5:18Speaker 01

  I did a, you know, Kung Fu demonstration in many city, include the White House doing the Kung Fu for President Nixon. And each time you represent China people, now you got more money, a lot of money.

• 5:33Ryan Holiday?

  I heard Nixon asked you to be his bodyguard.

• 5:35Speaker 01

  Yes. When I was 11, he say, in the White House, a rose garden, I think.

• 5:40Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah. It's not there anymore.

• 5:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:42Ryan Holiday?

  They got rid of it.

• 5:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. Kung Fu Demon, you know, after I did show the Kung Fu, he said, "Wow, your Kung Fu pretty good. You grow up, you can become my bodyguard." Of course, they translate to me. And I say, "No, I want to protect billion people, not win." That's the case, just thinking that way.

• 6:00Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah. Did you love martial arts? Or was it for you like a way out, a means to an end? Like, like, did you, did you love doing it? Or was it the pressure that's putting you there?

• 6:12Speaker 01

  In the beginning, I don't know anything about martial arts. Not, I don't love it. I don't know. Just the first degree in the summertime, you know, send all the children. They go to sports school. And if you're tall enough, you can play basketball, you know, volleyball. Some people running so fast, now you go to there. I'm quite short, they say, "Oh, this group people learning martial arts." Okay.

• 6:40Ryan Holiday?

  So you're getting funneled into different sports based on, how old were you?

• 6:44Speaker 01

  Eight years old.

• 6:45Ryan Holiday?

  And they're deciding your future at eight years old, basically.

• 6:48Speaker 01

  Yes, but my master tell me later on, he says, "My normal school teacher already say there have a one boy. He's a good look in the physical, very good, control, and he must learn martial art is good." So after one month, summer school, so there have a thousand students. So my coach only teach me keep in the martial art team.

• 7:15Ryan Holiday?

  Wow.

• 7:16Speaker 01

  And then, you know, after a year, I got a quite good. Then slightly, slightly love martial arts because they have a very strong philosophy.

• 7:26Ryan Holiday?

  Well, that's what I was gonna ask. Do you think the coach saw your physical potential? Or do you think he saw something in you mentally and spiritually? Like, what do you think he saw in you that, that made him think, "This is the, this is the kid you gotta train?"

• 7:41Speaker 01

  I think both way. When is you control your body, you know? Also, they look you, you're thinking. I'm the case like a independent thinking.

• 7:53Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 7:53Speaker 01

  A lot. Not only you tell me 2,000 times, thousand times, I just follow the rule. I don't wanna, yeah, say, "Why I do just do 700 better than 1,000?"

• 8:03Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 8:03Speaker 01

  What's the key words? I always thinking, always thinking. Then also, you know, learning martial arts, they have three key words. How to say? Jing, qi, shen. Just like you, you have energy, you can calm down, concentrate. Then you use internal energy, show your physical. I have a special three words.

• 8:29Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 8:30Speaker 01

  Then they thought I have that quite special with same age.

• 8:35Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 8:35Speaker 01

  The older childrens.

• 8:36Ryan Holiday?

  Where do you think that came from? Is it biological? Like, is it genetic? Or is it something you, you were taught as a kid? Like, where do you think it came from?

• 8:45Speaker 01

  At that point, when I was young, I don't know. But later on, when I study, you know, especially I'm special study Buddhism.

• 8:53Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 8:54Speaker 01

  Then there, I believe there must be something in the past.

• 8:58Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 8:59Speaker 01

  That's why you learn everything faster than normal age people.

• 9:03Ryan Holiday?

  Right.

• 9:03Speaker 01

  And you have a very familiar, control the body to show different way.

• 9:10Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 9:10Speaker 01

  And I think, I believe so.

• 9:13Ryan Holiday?

  Do you know who Patton was? The, the American general? And there's a famous movie Patton about him. He's a famous World War II general. But he wrote this poem. Where he believed, he fought in World War II and World War I. But he, he wrote this poem where he believed that he was the reincarnated spirit of every generation of warriors. Like he, there's a famous scene in the movie, but it did happen in real life where he was at, uh, he was at a, in, in real life, he's at a civil war battlefield. And he's like describing it to the historian. And the historian's like, no, that's not how it went. And he says, no, no, I was here as a boy, which he wasn't. But he felt that he was, and then, and then an actual civil war veteran comes to the scene and he's like,

• 9:58Ryan Holiday?

  no, no, he's right. That's how it went. He had this sense that there was generations of sort of past fighters in him. Do you feel like you have some?

• 10:07Speaker 01

  Yes, I, I think so. Because in mainland China, martial arts is Chinese tradition, you know?

• 10:14Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 10:15Speaker 01

  And I think last year, they calculated again is almost eighty million people learning.

• 10:22Ryan Holiday?

  Wow.

• 10:23Speaker 01

  Still there.

• 10:24Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 10:24Speaker 01

  When I was little, it's, it's still talking about eighty million or a hundred million people learning martial arts. How can you're so young boy, you, you, you have a special and you're doing the same movement, same coach?

• 10:38Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 10:40Speaker 01

  But you.

• 10:40Ryan Holiday?

  You learn it faster.

• 10:41Speaker 01

  You're faster, you're different style. Everybody saw you and they say, wow, this guy must have a talent.

• 10:49Ryan Holiday?

  Yes.

• 10:49Speaker 01

  They only use that word, they're, oh, maybe he's too talent.

• 10:52Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 10:52Speaker 01

  So the learning. And also, you know, later on, I learned Buddhism or Buddhism, you know? I figured out why I'm so special, why people like me, you know, movement on the screen, on the real, you know, fighting, different style. Maybe, you know, the people like me, maybe in the past I helped more people. I helped a lot of people, using martial arts.

• 11:16Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 11:17Speaker 01

  Helping people. But maybe I did some mistake, hurt wrong people. That's why I got a lot injured, you know?

• 11:25Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 11:26Speaker 01

  You take it the good.

• 11:27Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 11:27Speaker 01

  You take it the bad in the reincarnation. That's why I didn't complain a lot right now.

• 11:32Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 11:32Speaker 01

  But in the thirties, I always think I'm so unlucky. Each movie I make it, I broke my arm, broke my leg, you know?

• 11:43Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 11:43Speaker 01

  Why nobody like me, you know, always got injured? Then why more than thirty five, I'm learning Buddhism, then I said, hmm, maybe I helped a lot of people, that's why people love me.

• 11:57Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 11:57Speaker 01

  Then maybe I did something wrong.

• 12:00Ryan Holiday?

  In a past life, you also committed some crimes.

• 12:02Speaker 01

  Heard of some people, that's okay. Then I take it, if I have energy, I can control, I can, you know, pay it back, it's good.

• 12:11Ryan Holiday?

  So the study of Buddhism came later for you?

• 12:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, when I was thirty four, I studied, become really Buddhist.

• 12:19Ryan Holiday?

  Really?

• 12:19Speaker 01

  But at the beginning, I made my first movie called Shaolin Temple.

• 12:24Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 12:24Speaker 01

  That is a big hit in mainland China, in the whole Asia. Make me career changed, become actor. But when I went to the temple, I just felt very peaceful, very happy.

• 12:36Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 12:36Speaker 01

  Just something, yeah, I come before, you know, familiar, this, this, this, yeah.

• 12:42Ryan Holiday?

  There was something about it that spoke to you.

• 12:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:44Ryan Holiday?

  But how long between that movie and your study, many years?

• 12:48Speaker 01

  Seventeen years later, I become Buddhist.

• 12:50Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 12:51Speaker 01

  But in the beginning, because I'm learning martial arts, I also very like Taoism.

• 12:58Ryan Holiday?

  Yes.

• 12:59Speaker 01

  Because they call yin and yang, you know? You attack, you protect, you know? But so that philosophy make me independent thinking a more, a more. Because, you know, different age, different area in the world, people have a different kind of thought.

• 13:18Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 13:18Speaker 01

  So that's why I think, oh, maybe I'm think black or white, you know, different way. Maybe I like a cold water, people like hot water, that's why this is different.

• 13:29Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 13:29Speaker 01

  So you need to understand now, nothing hundred percent equal or something there.

• 13:36Ryan Holiday?

  I feel like in the modern West, there's kind of a distinction between philosophy and say martial arts or sports, right? Like there, there's brain and brawn, as they said, you know, like, but, but it seems like in, in the East, historically and in a more modern sense, the philosophy and the martial arts are, are more intertwined.

• 13:57Speaker 01

  Yes, much deeper. Because at our school, there are different kinds of supports, right?

• 14:04Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 14:04Speaker 01

  The people, if they learn basketball, you know, volleyball, whatever, they just physical control, concentrate only.

• 14:11Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 14:12Speaker 01

  But martial arts, we need to learn why you attack this way, why you attack away? How to protect yourself, how to revenge something this. Of course, later on, you know, I start become actor. Martial arts movie always there have some more strong philosophy.

• 14:30Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 14:31Speaker 01

  You know?

• 14:32Ryan Holiday?

  There's something meditative about martial arts, I feel like, that's maybe different than golf or.

• 14:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. More philosophy, more thinking, because they use not a external physical part. You need the internal, they call the chi, you know, how to use, how to sharp, how to concentrate. Yeah, also they believe not just you can really easily to beat up someone.

• 15:01Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 15:02Speaker 01

  But you never change their mind. So how to use convince them, stop them violent and change to become good person, you know?

• 15:13Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah, that is interesting.

• 15:14Speaker 01

  If only the support, support, supports, yeah.

• 15:17Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 15:17Speaker 01

  You just beat them up, you win, your team got champion, that's good enough.

• 15:21Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 15:21Speaker 01

  But martial arts is always not that simple.

• 15:26Ryan Holiday?

  Yes. Yeah, what, what's that, you use a word in the beginning of the book, I thought it was interesting. Zizai?

• 15:33Speaker 01

  Zizai, yeah.

• 15:33Ryan Holiday?

  What does that mean?

• 15:34Speaker 01

  On the philosophy part, I think everything we describe a yin and yang.

• 15:39Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 15:39Speaker 01

  Like a coat, hat, this and this. So when I talk about the freedom, that means you're something cost not freedom.

• 15:48Ryan Holiday?

  Sure.

• 15:49Speaker 01

  You think I need a freedom because I'm not freedom.

• 15:52Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 15:52Speaker 01

  That means at the same time.

• 15:53Ryan Holiday?

  Yes.

• 15:54Speaker 01

  I want this because you don't have it, that's why you want it.

• 15:57Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 15:57Speaker 01

  So, uh, you think you get this, you will be happier.

• 16:03Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 16:03Speaker 01

  Like more freedom, I'm happier, more power, more money, I'm being this. But it's really this way, if that sample is much easier. But then when I grew up, you see a lot of people, maybe they're more power, more stronger, more money. But this, they have their problem.

• 16:23Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 16:23Speaker 01

  They have their suffering.

• 16:24Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 16:25Speaker 01

  So if you have a goal, you always have problem, you always have.

• 16:33Ryan Holiday?

  There's something you don't have that you want.

• 16:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:35Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 16:36Speaker 01

  Uh, so that's why, and I think more zizai, talk about, hmm, what do we need and what do we want is two things. Everybody afraid about the life and the young and old, even death. So everybody try to scared.

• 16:57Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 16:57Speaker 01

  They want more. But they only need that much.

• 17:02Ryan Holiday?

  Sure.

• 17:03Speaker 01

  They want that much, you know? Then they, even me, I confused what I want, what I need.

• 17:10Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 17:10Speaker 01

  Always mess up. So later on, you, if you truly understand the life, then you will know what you need. That's very important.

• 17:22Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 17:22Speaker 01

  After that, just what you want doesn't mean anything, because at the end of the day, you cannot keep them go.

• 17:28Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 17:29Speaker 01

  You need to leave them to the world, left to the next generation.

• 17:32Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 17:33Speaker 01

  So they're not a white, not a black, so they have something middle words. Because words is too limit, too limited, cannot describe.

• 17:46Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 17:46Speaker 01

  Because if I say I have more freedom, that means you're before you, you're less freedom. No, zizai is everything okay. Okay is okay, not okay, also okay. The result, you see everything result, you respect.

• 18:01Ryan Holiday?

  And I think you, you said it, it's connected to the idea of presence, which is just being in the moment that you're in, not wanting or regretting or worrying or.

• 18:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, like a so be it, that's why my daughter and I.

• 18:15Ryan Holiday?

  So be it?

• 18:15Speaker 01

  So be it.

• 18:16Ryan Holiday?

  Ooh.

• 18:17Speaker 01

  Ooh, just come out, yeah.

• 18:18Ryan Holiday?

  Okay.

• 18:19Speaker 01

  Okay, everything okay.

• 18:20Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 18:21Speaker 01

  Because people, just like I'm making movie in the past, you always think you try your best.

• 18:28Speaker 01

  Then the result must be best.

• 18:30Ryan Holiday?

  Oh, yeah, especially with movies.

• 18:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, you you you try your best, sometime work, sometime so so.

• 18:36Ryan Holiday?

  Well, that that would be interesting, right? Because, yeah, you're the actor in a movie, so you could do a great job.

• 18:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:40Ryan Holiday?

  But you don't control the other actors. You don't control the director. You don't control the marketing.

• 18:44Speaker 01

  You also you cannot control the audience.

• 18:47Ryan Holiday?

  Right, yeah, exactly.

• 18:48Speaker 01

  Somebody like it this part.

• 18:50Ryan Holiday?

  Sure.

• 18:50Speaker 01

  Somebody that like that part.

• 18:52Ryan Holiday?

  Sure.

• 18:52Speaker 01

  So that's why I think the result probably three things can describe. Good, bad, so so. If I respect three things.

• 19:03Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 19:04Speaker 01

  No problem at all.

• 19:05Ryan Holiday?

  Sure.

• 19:06Speaker 01

  But the problem is I only care about the good.

• 19:09Ryan Holiday?

  You want one, which means that if the other two happen, then you're upset or disappointed or angry.

• 19:15Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 19:15Ryan Holiday?

  Or someone can take good from you by ruining it.

• 19:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:19Ryan Holiday?

  And you're vulnerable.

• 19:19Speaker 01

  But this is natural. If you have this, probably people have this idea, you know, just a percentage. Maybe this more than fifty percent is good.

• 19:28Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 19:29Speaker 01

  You cannot ask people hundred percent like you.

• 19:31Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 19:32Speaker 01

  No, not no one in the world hundred percent people support you. So why you understand more things than just so be it. You hate me, I know, I understand your angle.

• 19:43Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 19:43Speaker 01

  You like me, I appreciate, I understand your level. You know, your thinking in the middle say so so also I understand. So if you open your heart, you respect everything, you don't complain, you know.

• 19:55Ryan Holiday?

  Right.

• 19:55Speaker 01

  It's it's okay.

• 19:57Ryan Holiday?

  So one of the Stoic philosophers, his name is Epictetus, who I I write quite a bit about. He he would talk about how we're all actors in a play.

• 20:05Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 20:06Ryan Holiday?

  Right, we don't get to choose the role that we're cast in. We're cast in a role and then we have to act that part as well as possible. We don't control if it has a lot of speaking parts or only a few speaking parts. If it's the villain or if it's the the the celebrated laugh line, like all we can do is play our role as best we can. And we have to detach from the results a little bit because sometimes the audience loves you and sometimes they don't.

• 20:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, for my understanding right now is not just making movie. The life is big movie.

• 20:38Ryan Holiday?

  Yes.

• 20:38Speaker 01

  You're you're the actor.

• 20:40Ryan Holiday?

  Yes.

• 20:40Speaker 01

  You're the writer.

• 20:41Ryan Holiday?

  Right, right.

• 20:41Speaker 01

  You're the you know, performance. You do direct everything because the result only you will take it in the future.

• 20:50Ryan Holiday?

  And look, sometimes you can be a good actor in a bad movie.

• 20:53Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 20:54Ryan Holiday?

  And what you don't want to be is a bad actor in a good movie.

• 20:57Speaker 01

  Yes, everything you can, you you you understand than just acting, you know, you try to.

• 21:04Speaker 01

  What I learned is training the mind is important. You need to help more people understand them.

• 21:10Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 21:11Speaker 01

  So now you opened that so be it, everything, okay, I understand.

• 21:15Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 21:15Speaker 01

  I hope you're happy, I hope you're healthy, that's the way.

• 21:19Ryan Holiday?

  Well, and how can you make sure that the goal that you have when you go into a project is something we Stoics talk about too? He says, um, the other metaphor he uses, he says, um, uh, if you only run races where winning is up to you, you will always win.

• 21:35Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 21:35Ryan Holiday?

  And so his point is like, if if you go into a movie and the goal is this has to make a certain amount of money.

• 21:41Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 21:42Ryan Holiday?

  Well, that might not happen, right? Other other things impact whether that happens. But if you go into a movie or a project or a conversation and you say, I want to do my best, I want to have fun, I want to learn something. You know, these are all things that you get to decide whether they happen or not.

• 21:58Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 21:59Ryan Holiday?

  And so deciding what the goal is and trying to root that goal into something that's not based on other people as much as possible.

• 22:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, there have a different age, the audience, different age, different languages, different, maybe religion. So they like something, they don't like something, just like all the material put on the table says, here's the coffee. Here's the water, this is wine, take it what like.

• 22:24Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 22:25Speaker 01

  Doesn't mean this is right, this is wrong, this is.

• 22:26Ryan Holiday?

  Sure.

• 22:27Speaker 01

  So, um, then I think most important for me is I training martial arts through my almost the whole life.

• 22:37Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 22:37Speaker 01

  Control the body, move the body, that's I call is a healthy part.

• 22:43Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 22:44Speaker 01

  Healthy. I thought Western lot of people learning how to keep their body running, you know, fit, look good. But I think mentally training is also very important. It's the part of life.

• 22:57Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 22:58Speaker 01

  Happy is the mental.

• 23:00Ryan Holiday?

  Yes.

• 23:00Speaker 01

  Healthy is the physical. Healthy, I think, more important. That's why I want to share, uh, I read Chinese book, this is the first English book and try to share how to training.

• 23:11Ryan Holiday?

  Well, a lot of, yeah, a lot of people go to the gym, they run on the treadmill, they lift weights, but they do no mental training whatsoever.

• 23:17Speaker 01

  But if we don't do the mental training, you don't know how to control the happy, who cause you're not happy.

• 23:23Ryan Holiday?

  Sure.

• 23:24Speaker 01

  If you know why it's cause you're unhappy than yourself that.

• 23:27Ryan Holiday?

  Sure.

• 23:28Speaker 01

  Then you can become more happy. Also, because in, you know, technology improve a lot in the near future, maybe five, ten, twenty years. Healthy is not a big problem.

• 23:40Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 23:40Speaker 01

  Maybe people can go two hundred years old.

• 23:42Ryan Holiday?

  Sure.

• 23:43Speaker 01

  But if mental not strong and enough, you lose balance. You put your mind in the two hundred years, then you say, wow, I need a lot of movie to make it, a lot of working to do it. Ah, what happens, you know?

• 23:55Ryan Holiday?

  Sure. Yeah. Yeah, if suddenly everyone live to be a hundred.

• 23:58Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 23:59Ryan Holiday?

  But you, we didn't make any improvements as far as the the mental side of things.

• 24:05Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 24:06Ryan Holiday?

  That just means you're unhappy for longer.

• 24:09Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 24:10Ryan Holiday?

  It's worse.

• 24:11Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 24:11Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 24:12Speaker 01

  Lot of things even we don't like it, they coming.

• 24:15Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 24:16Speaker 01

  You know, the machine, everything, you know, take AI, everything, take your job, take your your that, how to handle this?

• 24:25Ryan Holiday?

  If you're an anxious person, that's thirty more years of anxiety. If you're a fragile person, that's thirty more years of having your heart broken or, you know, getting stressed out all the time like. So, yeah, the the idea of health being fixed is really only part of the equation. If you're out of balance with the the mental, if you don't have resiliency and, you know, um, all the the the things that you train the mental side for.

• 24:48Speaker 01

  Yes, because I learning martial arts, that's why I always thinking, especially in China, we say five thousand years history, what you learn this.

• 24:57Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 24:57Speaker 01

  You do make same mistake in your hundred years life. But you then will know the future so long.

• 25:05Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 25:05Speaker 01

  Lot of things have happened with you. You didn't prepare.

• 25:09Ryan Holiday?

  Right.

• 25:09Speaker 01

  Then you will easily get hurt, get something in the future.

• 25:13Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah, there's a line from an American president that I like. He says, uh, the only thing new is the history you don't know.

• 25:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:21Ryan Holiday?

  And so, yeah, when you look at five thousand years of tradition.

• 25:24Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 25:25Ryan Holiday?

  Sure, there's some technological advancements, but basically people have been struggling with the same things for five thousand years.

• 25:31Speaker 01

  Yes, the emotion part.

• 25:33Ryan Holiday?

  Yes.

• 25:33Speaker 01

  Mental part, same thing.

• 25:34Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 25:35Speaker 01

  Love, family, children, husband, you know, wife, you know, how to work.

• 25:40Ryan Holiday?

  Hungry, cold, wet.

• 25:42Speaker 01

  Say that.

• 25:43Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 25:43Speaker 01

  But the material may have changed.

• 25:45Ryan Holiday?

  Yes.

• 25:45Speaker 01

  Before you run the horse, you know, later on you have a car, now you have a different kind of car, you you don't need to drive. In the future, maybe you have clothes, everything you go to New York.

• 25:56Ryan Holiday?

  Sure, sure.

• 25:57Speaker 01

  Easily, so the material changed, the mental is similar.

• 26:01Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 26:01Speaker 01

  Love story, family, take care, you know, this emotion didn't change a lot.

• 26:07Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 26:08Speaker 01

  That's why we need, I think in the near future, we my is more important than this part. This part, technology, lot of company, lot of people already doing it.

• 26:20Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah, well, and, yeah, as as society becomes more prosperous and you're not a subsistence level farmer.

• 26:27Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 26:27Ryan Holiday?

  Actually, the emotional stuff becomes more important because there's more room for it. If you're spending fourteen hours a day in the fields, you don't have a lot of time to stress about some of these emotional and mental things. But as that takes up less and less time, in a weird way, the other stuff takes up more space.

• 26:45Speaker 01

  Yes, and think about it, and I work in, I think of fifteen years ago, I work with the UN Health two terms.

• 26:54Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 26:54Speaker 01

  I each turn two years ambassador, you know, try to promote things. Then that time they already tell me, uh, you know, the heart attack, the cause human.

• 27:04Ryan Holiday?

  Oh, heart attack, yeah.

• 27:05Speaker 01

  Is the is the number one and cancer number two.

• 27:08Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 27:08Speaker 01

  Mentally, maybe number three, but they say ten years later in future, mental will be number one.

• 27:15Ryan Holiday?

  Sure, because you can cure the other things.

• 27:17Speaker 01

  Yes, the heart, you know, technology, AI, they can.

• 27:20Ryan Holiday?

  Sure.

• 27:21Speaker 01

  Maybe in next ten, twenty, thirty years, cancer maybe can cure.

• 27:26Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 27:26Speaker 01

  You know, and other things, the mental is very important. So people right now, I think a lot of people, you especially city, a lot of young people take maybe thirty minutes every day training their body.

• 27:38Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 27:38Speaker 01

  Then I want to share, say, wow. What about three minutes to take care of my mental training? Every day from the little, little, little, you know, concentrate, you know, the mind is concentrating.

• 27:51Ryan Holiday?

  What does your mental training look like? What do you do?

• 27:54Speaker 01

  When I was a little boy, you know, the, just like an athlete, you need to focus. You know, you go outside to performers, people like you, you don't.

• 28:03Ryan Holiday?

  How do you tune it out?

• 28:04Speaker 01

  You don't think about it.

• 28:05Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 28:05Speaker 01

  If yelling at you, you know, through something, you know, you need to do your best.

• 28:11Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 28:11Speaker 01

  If too hard, you need to try harder, harder, harder. Also, even sample training, but you know, later on, you know, making movies, you have a philosophy training. And especially I become Buddhist, then training you, then you will understand more. What cause you not happy?

• 28:30Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 28:30Speaker 01

  What cause you suffering?

• 28:32Ryan Holiday?

  Right. And it's us, we're the cause, it's never out here.

• 28:35Speaker 01

  Then you need to understand that people say something, they like you, where you, they don't like you. Why you be happy? Why you angry?

• 28:44Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 28:44Speaker 01

  The sound where you come from, how to work inside.

• 28:48Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 28:48Speaker 01

  You look something you're happy, why you look at something happy? The flexion change your mind, how do you unhappy? If you can find all the problem, how can cost?

• 29:00Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 29:00Speaker 01

  Then you can solve them, you can clear it.

• 29:03Ryan Holiday?

  One of the ideas from the Stoics, I'd be curious what you think, this also comes from Epictetus, he says, it's not things that upset us, it's our opinion about things.

• 29:12Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 29:13Ryan Holiday?

  Right? The, it's out there, but it's when it comes through and we process it through here, that's where the, that was offensive, that was mean, that was hurtful.

• 29:22Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 29:22Ryan Holiday?

  That was amazing. You said, I was, all that's our interpretation.

• 29:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, then you're deep training because they have a sixth sense, how to, you know, communicate with the outside, whether you hear, what do you smell, what do you think thing? And the Buddhism, they have a seven and eight.

• 29:39Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 29:39Speaker 01

  Involved, seven is your opinion, different with the others. Everybody's seven is different, you know, eight is maybe you learn something, put there. It's so familiar or something, you know, reincarnation.

• 29:55Ryan Holiday?

  Oh, sure.

• 29:56Speaker 01

  Usually I saw that, you know, you have a cellphone.

• 29:58Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 29:59Speaker 01

  Just like your body, you change all your cellphone, every two years, three years, but.

• 30:04Ryan Holiday?

  The data is the same.

• 30:05Speaker 01

  Still there.

• 30:06Ryan Holiday?

  Right.

• 30:06Speaker 01

  Who's your friend, who's your same thing?

• 30:08Ryan Holiday?

  Yes.

• 30:08Speaker 01

  That's the software. So that's why I say both side, we need to understand how to work.

• 30:15Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 30:15Speaker 01

  And make you understand, when you see everything is possible, then you're not disappointed. Because you respect already.

• 30:24Ryan Holiday?

  And you're not surprised.

• 30:26Speaker 01

  Not surprised.

• 30:26Ryan Holiday?

  Because you, you knew that was one of the outcomes.

• 30:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, that people, sometime you will grow up, you crazy, you only see these things. After this, too bad, you cannot say, wow, I'm unlucky, oh, too special, you know. You wouldn't open it, see everything, it's okay.

• 30:43Ryan Holiday?

  Seneca, who's another one of the Stoics, he said, the reason you want to think about all the things that could happen. So you're not surprised, I mean, he says, the analogy is that the unexpected punch hurts more. That the unexpected blow lands heaviest.

• 30:56Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 30:57Ryan Holiday?

  And so the analogy, I guess, for fighting is you want to think, well, they could hit me from this side, they could come from over here.

• 31:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, yes.

• 31:03Ryan Holiday?

  Right? And it's not to make you paranoid, but it's so you don't get caught off guard. It's when we're surprised, when, when we didn't even conceive of someone not appreciating what we're doing, or that they could laugh at us or whatever, then when it happens, we're devastated.

• 31:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's why in the book, I write down, my English not good enough, I try to explain, you know, there have a small jet Li in the beginning, just like everybody work, myself like a center. I do martial arts, make money, take care of my family, I do something, I'm special. Everything is me, me, me, me, me. It's a lot of suffering, a lot of struggling and pressure. And I hit a tsunami in 2004 with my whole family, you know, two thousand, almost died, Maldives, 2004.

• 31:49Ryan Holiday?

  Oh, okay.

• 31:50Speaker 01

  Asian.

• 31:50Ryan Holiday?

  That's a big one, right?

• 31:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, the bigger one.

• 31:52Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah, yeah. You were there, you were on the beach?

• 31:54Speaker 01

  I'm in the Maldives, more than eight hundred miles there, but one hour later, we get a hit. So the water is here, my Jada, my little girl, one years old, take bad water. I hold my older, four years old sister, nothing to do, even people think you're the martial art guy, you know the physical. But in the nature, when they come.

• 32:19Ryan Holiday?

  Fight a wave.

• 32:20Speaker 01

  You cannot, you cannot fight. So since then, I changed, say, I need to do something, helping the society. People love me, give me the big name, I want to help them. So I start a foundation in China to help more people in the disaster. So I ask everybody donate Wen Yuan per month, like twelve cents dollar per month, put it together. So after eighteen years, we helped sixty-two million people. We raising fund is almost five billion RMB, five billion, so help more people, just everybody little bit, little bit, little bit together.

• 32:59Speaker 01

  That change. But through that journey, I'm so happy, but also more painful, more suffering.

• 33:08Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 33:08Speaker 01

  Because you have a goal.

• 33:10Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 33:11Speaker 01

  You help million, you want to help two million.

• 33:13Ryan Holiday?

  Sure, you do the same thing.

• 33:14Speaker 01

  Same thing.

• 33:15Ryan Holiday?

  Yes.

• 33:15Speaker 01

  Even they say, I not work for J D, not work for me, but you're doing the same thing.

• 33:20Ryan Holiday?

  Competing with other people.

• 33:22Speaker 01

  On the other foundation, the other things, so same, same thing, that's big J D also suffering. So that's why, end of the day, in past maybe ten years, I study, strongly study Buddhism, Buddhism. And then try to figure out, know me, you know, know me.

• 33:40Ryan Holiday?

  To take you, your ego out.

• 33:42Speaker 01

  Know me, if know me, everything is自在.

• 33:46Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 33:46Speaker 01

  That's come from.

• 33:47Ryan Holiday?

  It's okay.

• 33:48Speaker 01

  That's okay. They don't like J D, they like J D, they put a stone in the water.

• 33:52Ryan Holiday?

  There's ripples, yeah.

• 33:54Speaker 01

  You can feel it, you angry, but you don't want revenge. But later on, now I try to learn is you threw the stone in the air, the air doesn't matter who.

• 34:04Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 34:04Speaker 01

  Be careful, hurt that people, be careful the stone back hurt you, because there are no point.

• 34:11Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 34:12Speaker 01

  Then just less happy, less suffering, less everything, both side. Then that's called自在.

• 34:20Ryan Holiday?

  And do you have a meditation practice? Do you meditate?

• 34:23Speaker 01

  Yes, thirty years. Meditation is the one kind of skill, but meditation is not a goal.

• 34:31Ryan Holiday?

  Right.

• 34:31Speaker 01

  Goal is if you're in the learning beginning, you have a different kind of meditation, different kind of class. People, normally people think meditation just do nothing, do thinking.

• 34:43Speaker 01

  They have a lot of things to do.

• 34:44Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 34:45Speaker 01

  You know, steps, steps.

• 34:46Ryan Holiday?

  There's a lot of stuff you got to clear out first.

• 34:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, clear, clear, clear, what cause, until later on, it's different kind. Meditation can help you a different kind of goal.

• 34:57Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 34:58Speaker 01

  Really depends the goal, where you want to go, then you learn what kind of meditation. Then there have many, many skills, I call the many, many tools.

• 35:09Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 35:09Speaker 01

  You can use ear to meditate, listen, you can looking, meditation.

• 35:17Ryan Holiday?

  Just walking meditation?

• 35:18Speaker 01

  Walking meditation, drinking meditation, many, many ways.

• 35:21Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 35:22Speaker 01

  Then that is the sample, easy to understand and using for daily life.

• 35:28Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 35:30Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah, and I, I feel like more in the martial arts world, like, again, we, we, in America, it's like, it's our big and tough, you know, the athletes. But like, you know, there were samurai warriors that liked to, to do the little, the, the gardening, or the painting, or the tea ceremony. There's something kind of slow and meditative about it, traditionally, that is very beautiful, which is a meditative experience, right? The trimming of the bonsai tree, or the, the haikus, you know, the, the different kinds of, um, sort of artistic means of getting to that quieter, calmer place.

• 36:07Speaker 01

  Mm hmm. For I learning martial arts and the first step is a physical skill.

• 36:13Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 36:14Speaker 01

  Your internal, external, angry, everything revenge, whatever you want to get a goal.

• 36:20Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 36:20Speaker 01

  You need a physical become very high level.

• 36:23Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 36:24Speaker 01

  Sometime we talk about your sword, you're holding the sword, sword is your body.

• 36:30Ryan Holiday?

  Yes.

• 36:31Speaker 01

  Sword and you in the together.

• 36:33Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 36:33Speaker 01

  Amazing together.

• 36:34Ryan Holiday?

  To become one.

• 36:35Speaker 01

  Become one. Now, next level, you don't need a sword.

• 36:39Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 36:40Speaker 01

  You need a physical very strong, and before fighting, you try to stop them.

• 36:45Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 36:46Speaker 01

  Don't fight me.

• 36:46Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 36:47Speaker 01

  Don't fight me, I will get you.

• 36:49Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 36:49Speaker 01

  I will got you, I will hurt you. So that level, that level better than hurt people.

• 36:54Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 36:55Speaker 01

  The second level is heart, you still have a sword in the heart, but not physical.

• 37:00Ryan Holiday?

  Yes.

• 37:01Speaker 01

  Sword. And the third level, you don't have a sword inside, in the heart, you don't have a sense, you try to helping more people.

• 37:08Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 37:09Speaker 01

  You try to convince this way, keep balance, everybody be friends, everybody, you know, this way. It's quite close to highest the philosophy or religion, so helping each other, we're not easy, living in the earth, helping brother sisters, don't fight.

• 37:25Ryan Holiday?

  Do you think some of that comes from confidence, right? So it's like, you know, you can, and then you realize you don't need to. And then you realize that actually your highest use is of service.

• 37:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, of course. Yeah, also different age, young have a lot of energy.

• 37:41Ryan Holiday?

  Hard to do that at twenty.

• 37:42Speaker 01

  Get this, I try to prove difference, I am so strong.

• 37:46Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 37:46Speaker 01

  I want to get something.

• 37:49Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 37:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. Then you get it more confidence, more understanding life, thirties, you, you think about, wow, they have really reason, you have reason.

• 37:57Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 37:57Speaker 01

  Then until later on, you think, wow.

• 38:01Speaker 01

  Why don't need that much? You know, three meals a day, when bad could cover raining, that's good enough.

• 38:09Ryan Holiday?

  Yes.

• 38:09Speaker 01

  I don't need that much. Don't put a want become need.

• 38:13Ryan Holiday?

  Right.

• 38:14Speaker 01

  Lot of people still confuse want and need.

• 38:18Ryan Holiday?

  And it's also, I think it's easier to have that clarity when you've gotten a lot of the things that you've wanted. Because then you realize it wasn't that great. And you also, I think you have the confidence that you're like, I did it. You know, it like, there's something about like, if you were 20 and you were like, I don't need anything. You're not actually saying that from a place of knowing. There's like, you know, the story about sour grapes, like where you're like, oh, I didn't want it anyway. There's something like, until you've had it or you've gotten up close to it. You can't really know that you don't need it.

• 38:52Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 38:53Ryan Holiday?

  Cause it's not based on experience.

• 38:55Speaker 01

  Something, yes, something maybe not.

• 38:58Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 38:58Speaker 01

  Because I'm thirty four, I'm quite okay in Asia. You know, actor, famous action actor. You got something you want.

• 39:08Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 39:09Speaker 01

  But you look up American.

• 39:11Ryan Holiday?

  There's always another level.

• 39:12Speaker 01

  There are many, many levels to go. So after entertainment actor, there have a lot of businessmen, sour market, a lot of rich people. You never go that high.

• 39:23Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 39:23Speaker 01

  So doesn't mean you need to go that high, you understand.

• 39:27Ryan Holiday?

  Yes.

• 39:27Speaker 01

  There you need to think about, wow, what do I need? What do I want? If I don't understand, then end of the day, seventy years old, I'm still saying I want more.

• 39:38Ryan Holiday?

  You shouldn't have to conquer the entire world to know that it's not that important.

• 39:42Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 39:43Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 39:43Speaker 01

  I think your point is right, also right is secure what you need.

• 39:49Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 39:49Speaker 01

  That's very important. Secure, say, wow, that's I need, I need this. After that, I need to think a big picture.

• 39:56Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 39:56Speaker 01

  If you don't understand, if you are the billionaire, billionaire, you still think, I want more.

• 40:01Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 40:01Speaker 01

  I want more, I'm struggling, right?

• 40:03Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 40:04Speaker 01

  It's still there.

• 40:04Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 40:05Speaker 01

  That's why I think need to understand where living the earth.

• 40:10Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 40:11Speaker 01

  That's maybe three dimension and good and bad.

• 40:16Ryan Holiday?

  In philosophy and in meditation, oftentimes, if you're an ambitious person. A lot of what you're wrestling with there is how to turn that volume down, not off, but down a little bit.

• 40:29Speaker 01

  Yes, maybe just sometime you kick back, your reincarnation, the thinking come back.

• 40:36Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 40:37Speaker 01

  Say, look at it.

• 40:38Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 40:38Speaker 01

  If you go that journey, end of day, you're still suffering. You need to understand, then you think about, then you find a different you.

• 40:45Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 40:46Speaker 01

  The book can help you.

• 40:48Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 40:49Speaker 01

  Some maybe movie, some something you gather more information, more book to understand living and death.

• 40:56Ryan Holiday?

  Yes.

• 40:57Speaker 01

  What's the end? Where you come from? Where it goes? How to solve this lifetimes? When you through that journey, until one day, you wanna say, wow. I hope more people understand earlier, like my daughter, you should understand earlier and less suffering in your life, right?

• 41:15Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 41:15Speaker 01

  Be happy, understand. That's why we share, we want to share.

• 41:19Ryan Holiday?

  Sure.

• 41:19Speaker 01

  Then we don't know really can help more people or not. Doesn't matter, I think, and as I say to my teachers, say, if the book can help one person, two, three, I'm so happy.

• 41:31Ryan Holiday?

  Yes.

• 41:32Speaker 01

  If more, I'm also happy.

• 41:34Ryan Holiday?

  Yes.

• 41:34Speaker 01

  I don't need a goal.

• 41:35Ryan Holiday?

  Right.

• 41:36Speaker 01

  If I had a goal, go back to the beginning.

• 41:38Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah, more than zero, but it doesn't have to be a certain number.

• 41:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's, I, I'm not a good teacher. I don't want to teaching people. I just say, I'm like you, normal boy. I through my life journey, learning the physical part, mental part. I want to share my experiences to everybody.

• 41:58Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 41:58Speaker 01

  If you like it, take it free. If you don't like it, it's okay.

• 42:01Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 42:02Speaker 01

  There's a different will to see the, our life and include future. The technology will hit us very, very quickly. Yeah.

• 42:14Ryan Holiday?

  I did this book a couple of years ago about ego. And, and, and a friend of mine who trains in martial arts was saying something that I, I thought you might like. He was saying that ego is like a floor. You sweep the floor, you get it clean, right? As we're always trying to push ego away. And then a week later, it's dirty again. You have to always be sweeping the floor. You have to always be sort of doing the spiritual practice to, to get the, as you were saying, to take the me out of it. It's not something you do once. You don't meditate once and go, hey, I don't need to be the center of the universe. It doesn't last. It's a constant process.

• 42:54Speaker 01

  From my learning, that's one kind of philosophy.

• 42:57Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 42:58Speaker 01

  Even Buddhism have that kind, just say, you need all the time, always clean.

• 43:03Ryan Holiday?

  Yes.

• 43:03Speaker 01

  You know, just like a big tree.

• 43:05Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 43:05Speaker 01

  You have too much.

• 43:07Ryan Holiday?

  To trim the branches.

• 43:08Speaker 01

  You need to always, you know, every season, you need to change, fix it, then keep them healthy and good. That's one way.

• 43:16Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 43:17Speaker 01

  Also have the other way, say, to figure out, cut the tree.

• 43:24Ryan Holiday?

  Sure.

• 43:24Speaker 01

  Even no tree.

• 43:25Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 43:25Speaker 01

  Why you care about every season to the color leaves?

• 43:29Ryan Holiday?

  Sure.

• 43:30Speaker 01

  So there's two different way. This is slightly, slightly, slightly to understand relative truth. And what universal something more. One is direct, go to the end, they have a mirror. You need a clean mirror every day. If you're dirty, you cannot see your face.

• 43:50Ryan Holiday?

  Yes.

• 43:50Speaker 01

  Then the other master saying, where is the mirror? Even no mirror.

• 43:55Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 43:55Speaker 01

  Why you care about the clean one? There's two kind of way to learn. Really depends the person want to slightly step by step or quickly wins.

• 44:06Ryan Holiday?

  Where, where do you come down?

• 44:08Speaker 01

  I learn both, I learn both. This is safe.

• 44:11Ryan Holiday?

  Yes.

• 44:12Speaker 01

  Everything clean, it's safe.

• 44:14Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 44:14Speaker 01

  But that way I also learn. But that means on the other maybe is talk about the reincarnation.

• 44:22Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 44:22Speaker 01

  You never know how many times you already learned.

• 44:26Ryan Holiday?

  Sure.

• 44:26Speaker 01

  Maybe this is the last time.

• 44:28Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 44:29Speaker 01

  That's why you quick use the no mirror, no tree. How do you know you're a hundred or you're fifty?

• 44:35Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 44:36Speaker 01

  So if fifty is better use this way. If you already lacking on that way, this work.

• 44:42Ryan Holiday?

  Also, if the tree is ego and you think you've cut it down and you have no ego, that's kind of egotistical.

• 44:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, but no, not the tree, tree is explain ego, where is ego?

• 44:53Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 44:54Speaker 01

  In, in our body, where is the ego? Sometimes meditate, you know, just put your hands here, fish, that's jelly. No, that's hand, that put it all the pieces.

• 45:03Ryan Holiday?

  Yes.

• 45:04Speaker 01

  Where is jelly? Who suffering? Which part?

• 45:07Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 45:08Speaker 01

  Then you change, change, not until you cannot find the really, really have jelly. You need to put everything together, there have jelly.

• 45:16Ryan Holiday?

  Yes.

• 45:16Speaker 01

  Now use the same philosophy, you, we talk about a car. There are car, really car? We put all the pieces, say, there's a wheel, this, this, this, this. We cannot find the car.

• 45:27Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 45:27Speaker 01

  If you slow down, slow down, I don't know the. 那个量子力学叫物理. Yeah. You kind of smaller, smaller, smaller. Even their原子, 分子.

• 45:39Ryan Holiday?

  To the atoms.

• 45:39Speaker 01

  The atoms, then smaller than atoms, smaller atoms, everything.

• 45:43Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 45:44Speaker 01

  Become the same.

• 45:45Ryan Holiday?

  Right.

• 45:45Speaker 01

  Then where is you? Where is me?

• 45:48Ryan Holiday?

  Yes.

• 45:48Speaker 01

  That, that level. So my English not good enough to explain that. Yeah, Chinese. Chinese I can explain. If that's way, you cannot find you, then outside no tree, outside nothing.

• 46:00Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 46:01Speaker 01

  So what I learn is very good. And from all the masters, they teach me compassion.

• 46:08Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 46:09Speaker 01

  And also they teach me wisdom.

• 46:11Ryan Holiday?

  Yes.

• 46:12Speaker 01

  They say, if you do only compassion, you help lot of people, that's why you suffer. You need a wisdom, because no one can help the world, everybody, every corner.

• 46:23Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah, you need the perspective.

• 46:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, you need respect, lot of things there. And use wisdom, try your best to help whatever you can.

• 46:35Ryan Holiday?

  Talk to me about anger. I think sometimes people think anger is like a good fuel, especially in combat sports or in fighting, like anger is tough. But you sort of make the opposite argument in the book, that it's dangerous.

• 46:47Speaker 01

  Yes, you angry, you wanna do something. And the result maybe make you more angry, right?

• 46:58Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 46:58Speaker 01

  Then you cannot solve outside the problem, you hurt your inside. So you changed, you feel less angry. If angry can solve all the problem, then I say everybody angry.

• 47:09Ryan Holiday?

  Yes.

• 47:10Speaker 01

  But angry cannot solve all the problems. That you angry, the other people also angry. So both angry and more and more convinced, maybe thousand years still they hate each other.

• 47:20Ryan Holiday?

  So. Also, it's like you see in sports, why do people talk trash in sports? Like, why do people try to get inside the other person's head? Because they know if they insult you or hurt your feelings and you get angry, you'll make mistakes.

• 47:33Speaker 01

  You'll hurt yourself.

• 47:34Ryan Holiday?

  Yes, then we like, no, but my anger is good. It's like, no, you see it in someone else, you see the damage it causes. You should be very nervous about it in your own self.

• 47:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, so if you don't angry, you understand where the angry come from. You feel soft angry, then you become stronger.

• 47:53Ryan Holiday?

  Yes.

• 47:54Speaker 01

  If I'm standing there, like you say, hey, Jay, your book is shit, sucks. You're something, you're stupid. Then I'm just yelling, so I'm sorry, okay? Because I trained you, it's okay, respect, thank you, your opinion, thank you, thank you. Then make you angry. So maybe you try to find other words to make me frustrated. But if I'm okay, everything okay, then you don't need revenge. You just open it, open it.

• 48:24Ryan Holiday?

  It's a form of strength to not be triggered.

• 48:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:26Ryan Holiday?

  Or if people can't upset you, then you have strength.

• 48:30Speaker 01

  Then you understand everything because they want something.

• 48:34Ryan Holiday?

  Yes.

• 48:34Speaker 01

  They use our words, want to get some respect.

• 48:37Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 48:38Speaker 01

  People like you, they want to respect something. So it's open. So angry hurt yourself, that's why I say don't angry, you know?

• 48:46Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 48:47Speaker 01

  If angry can help, then we angry. If don't help, then just keep.

• 48:52Ryan Holiday?

  Yes.

• 48:52Speaker 01

  You can change you yourself, then you see the world totally different.

• 48:57Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 48:58Speaker 01

  That's what I learned.

• 48:59Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah, and it's almost like the more stressful or frustrating or difficult the experience, the more you need to bring calm to it.

• 49:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:09Ryan Holiday?

  Because it's complicated.

• 49:10Speaker 01

  Yes, a lot of people I heard, you know, people say, wow, so tired recently the work, you know, work twenty, twenty-four hours, eighteen hours, a lot of work, I complain, complain and say, ah, listen, why we need to work? Work just solve problem. If no problem, we don't need to work, right? Everybody working just solve problem. If say the company, perfect, company, no problem. Why they need you, they need a lot of machines, it's good enough. So work, we need to appreciate, so wow.

• 49:45Ryan Holiday?

  Yes.

• 49:46Speaker 01

  Lot of things I need to do today because a lot of problem. Machine cannot solve, I need to solve. So it still work.

• 49:53Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 49:54Speaker 01

  Still a hour, really depends on how you're thinking. You can enjoying this whole day, a hour, well, you can angry a hour. So which way better for you?

• 50:04Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah, you can laugh or you can cry about it.

• 50:06Speaker 01

  Yes. And also forgive yourself.

• 50:09Ryan Holiday?

  Yes.

• 50:11Speaker 01

  In the past, I tried so hard, I never give myself, made the mistake.

• 50:16Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 50:17Speaker 01

  I can angry myself, you know, something. Then you look back, just say, hey, five thousand years, lot of people make the mistake. Everybody make a mistake, forgive them. You are not the perfect guy.

• 50:29Ryan Holiday?

  Sure.

• 50:29Speaker 01

  You need to say, good and bad mistake, all your life experiences.

• 50:35Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 50:36Speaker 01

  All the experiences make your life.

• 50:39Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 50:39Speaker 01

  That's why I need to appreciate.

• 50:41Ryan Holiday?

  Yes.

• 50:42Speaker 01

  Appreciate the mistake, if you don't have mistake, you do not success.

• 50:47Ryan Holiday?

  You can't learn.

• 50:47Speaker 01

  You success every day, the whole life, then you feel that is boring.

• 50:52Ryan Holiday?

  Well, one of the, some of the mistakes you talk about in the book, you talk about growing as a parent, some of the mistakes you made as a parent. That must have been fun to write about.

• 51:00Speaker 01

  Yes, because you know, I'm traditional Chinese people. I, I don't have experience how to be father, because I don't have father have idol to see that you should do that. Also, traditional Chinese people just think, you know, you work hard, make a lot of money.

• 51:17Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 51:17Speaker 01

  Then give them good education and teacher, helping, good money, go to the hospital. Take care healthy, take care student, that's good enough.

• 51:29Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 51:29Speaker 01

  Then go, you know, I just through that journey until one day I realize

• 51:37Speaker 01

  I have a lot of problem, the money cannot solve all.

• 51:40Ryan Holiday?

  Yes.

• 51:41Speaker 01

  And they can solve some problem, but not all problem. That's why maybe my daughter, they need something, I forgot. So the first trick is my daughter, she got a some mental problem. I just do nothing.

• 51:56Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 51:57Speaker 01

  I don't understand that kind, what caused.

• 52:00Ryan Holiday?

  You didn't know how to help.

• 52:01Speaker 01

  I don't know how to help. Then I saw, oh, you're Jali, you're learning Buddhist, you know, a lot of mental training. But now they close the door, they don't want to talk to me, so how do I do it? Suddenly think I need to learn, I need to recover, everything. So I turned on a lot of work. Then through this journey, try to everything I can with my daughter, become listener, become their friend.

• 52:28Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 52:28Speaker 01

  Roommate, because usually, I don't know American culture, the parents always still say, ah, you should do this, you should do this. Yeah, you're the general, they're the soldier, like that way.

• 52:41Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 52:41Speaker 01

  But I, I thought doesn't work, so I slightly, slightly need to change, change, change, become their buddy.

• 52:48Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 52:49Speaker 01

  Become their roommate, become their friend, then talk to them. They teach me a lot, you know, how to be parent, how to be share, they want to say something. I sometime I need to learn to hear.

• 53:01Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 53:02Speaker 01

  Don't give opinion.

• 53:03Ryan Holiday?

  Sure.

• 53:03Speaker 01

  Just hear, so I learn a lot journey. And of course, learning this can help me ego head less and less, self-centered and less, less. Then they, they become my teacher also.

• 53:18Ryan Holiday?

  It's like, it's like wherever you need to be challenged the most, that's where your kids Yeah. end up needing, like, do you know what I mean? Like, I feel like with my kids, like, it's all the things that I, I struggle with the most that they are perfectly lined up to like, put the most pressure on, you know?

• 53:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, I still remember one day, yeah, four years ago, maybe, one day, my two daughter come, you know, we're met in Los Angeles. I thought I'm the goodest, training my mind, very calm, very down, very good. So you have something, you know, you don't like me some part, talk about it. Then they say, wow, you're self-centered, your ego head.

• 54:01Ryan Holiday?

  Yes.

• 54:01Speaker 01

  I heard ego is become evil.

• 54:03Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 54:04Speaker 01

  I say, I'm not evil, I try work so hard in my life to protect you girls. I can bring my heart, give to you everything, why I'm ego, wow, I'm so angry. So they're struggling. Then they say, see, see, see, you learn no self, this is big ego.

• 54:22Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 54:23Speaker 01

  I really think, wow, it's, I'm not good enough. So I learn, I learn, next day, next day, two days, maybe take me two days, then I say, sorry, I'm not good enough.

• 54:33Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 54:33Speaker 01

  I need to learn. So two years later, they say the same thing, then I just smile, I say, okay, even I'm unhappy, I'm smile. But four years later, they say something, I say, wow, good, what are you talking? Oh, yeah, that guy, Jali, Jali is selfish, Jali is self-centered, it's good, you can see.

• 54:53Ryan Holiday?

  Growth.

• 54:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, also grow.

• 54:55Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 54:55Speaker 01

  Because they become my teacher, my buddy, my roommate. I'm so happy I have a two daughter, four daughter, yeah. But this two, they have a little bit, especially Jada study Buddhist also, we have the same conversation or.

• 55:12Ryan Holiday?

  Well, each one of your kids has a different parent, right? Because you're growing, like they, like especially the older one, you're the least experienced with the oldest. And then you're a little more experienced with the next one and a little more. So like, just as we're growing and changing, our kids are getting different versions

• 55:27Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 55:27Ryan Holiday?

  of us, because we're in different places on our journey.

• 55:30Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 55:30Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 55:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, same, I'm a normal guy, normal person.

• 55:33Ryan Holiday?

  Yes, with the same, yes. Well, yeah, you talked about in the book that like, you thought it was like, hey, I'll check in when you're eighteen.

• 55:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:40Ryan Holiday?

  But a lot was missed.

• 55:42Speaker 01

  Yes, because I'm working, you know, during the thirty years, forty years, I'm working a lot. My wife take care, then say, I work for them, you know, you go to work, after eighteen, you take care.

• 55:54Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 55:55Speaker 01

  Then before eighteen, already have a big problem. I try to work together.

• 56:00Ryan Holiday?

  Yes.

• 56:01Speaker 01

  Then later on, later on, now it's.

• 56:03Ryan Holiday?

  And is that kind of how it was when you were growing up? Is, I mean, obviously, I know you lost your father early, but it can be hard when you're like, well, this is how it was when I was a kid.

• 56:12Speaker 01

  I don't have father pass away, you know, mother didn't take care because I'm living in the school.

• 56:17Ryan Holiday?

  Yes, so you didn't really have any, either parent.

• 56:19Speaker 01

  No.

• 56:20Ryan Holiday?

  You were, you were in this system.

• 56:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, the school only have the coach, the coach, like, how to use the bad words? You know, just punish, punish, doing it, doing it, harder, harder, doing it.

• 56:33Ryan Holiday?

  Right.

• 56:34Speaker 01

  So then you think your life is just doing it, doing it. Then before, you know, they're, later on, we become friend, they talk about it. So that, you know, when I was eleven, I get my injured in the sports class, then I go back, I'm so hurt. You tell me, say, say, no problem, I hurt a lot more than you, do it, stronger. Next day, you know, months later, you become strong again. I just say. Father finally, finally come back, finally come back. You need to say, say, wow, sorry, daughter, you will better. You tell me like tough, tough, you're training. I said, wow, that's what I learned from my master.

• 57:13Ryan Holiday?

  It's hard to give what you didn't get.

• 57:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:15Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 57:16Speaker 01

  I didn't have that experience. So that's why I'm not good enough. I learn, I still learn.

• 57:22Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 57:23Speaker 01

  Right now, right now, I'm learning every day. Yeah, you see, you see, now it's better.

• 57:29Ryan Holiday?

  Well, look, I have a book in there I want to give you. I think that's the interest, like, like, there's something even about Buddha. Like Buddha has a kid.

• 57:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:37Ryan Holiday?

  And he leaves to go get enlightenment.

• 57:39Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 57:40Ryan Holiday?

  And I don't think anyone, I mean, maybe that was okay 5,000 years ago or whatever. But, but I think if that's what enlightenment takes, it's not, I don't like it.

• 57:50Speaker 01

  That is not the only way.

• 57:52Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 57:53Speaker 01

  For sure, it's one way.

• 57:54Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 57:54Speaker 01

  The whole country is his, you know, everything.

• 57:57Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 57:57Speaker 01

  You got all the human want, get everything you use. You say that cannot help.

• 58:02Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 58:03Speaker 01

  Uh, sakeness, younger, you cannot help. Even you have power, money cannot have that. So he tried to find another solution. Finally, he like helping a lot of people. But today, you know, yeah, what was the 35, 30, 40, around there? I want to study, become really, really life like.

• 58:24Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 58:25Speaker 01

  And when I tell my master, I want to go to the mountain retreat, you know, something. Then few master say, get out of here, go back. You doing this way, you will destroy Buddhism. And so how can, you need a good students. I'm so good, I can training three years, you know, five years until I'm like. The good guy, go, go, go, go, get out. I said, why? You see, look at the modern days, people look at you like an idol, good guy. And you have wonderful wife, daughter, you're pretty good life.

• 59:00Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 59:00Speaker 01

  You help the society, suddenly you're through. You don't care about your daughter, wife, you go to the mountains to study.

• 59:08Ryan Holiday?

  Sure.

• 59:08Speaker 01

  Lot of parents will say, that guy, mental problem, jelly, mental problem.

• 59:13Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 59:14Speaker 01

  You know, he don't care, take care of wife, children, he go there to learning some strange stuff. Don't learn in that, whatever he learn.

• 59:23Ryan Holiday?

  Right, if it involves forsaking your obligations and your loved ones, what kind of enlightenment is that?

• 59:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, doesn't mean anything. So then they say, you go back, you need to continue. Even masters say, go back, continue, make a hero. I say, I don't want to hurt people. Even I'm working on the side, I'm struggling, why I beat him? You know, why I beat him? Say, don't put your like Buddha, you're just a human, beat up them, become hero. Then you, in a normal day, you show your compassion, you show your stuff to people. That have meaning, your real person have meaning. If you're too far away, people say, get out of here.

• 1:00:04Ryan Holiday?

  You thought you needed to go to a temple and learn from a teacher, but actually she was your teacher and you're, yes, yes. That's, that's.

• 1:00:10Speaker 01

  If I'm in the mountain, never learning that.

• 1:00:12Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:13Speaker 01

  You know, never learning you every day, you go out, even, I would say, even, yeah, recently I read, I read a Chinese book. Then still there having some people like, like the book, lot of people say, help. Some people saying, he's mental problem. Why just make, continue make a movie?

• 1:00:30Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:30Speaker 01

  Make a movie, make a money, make something, why hate learning this? Yeah, you need to understand, it's respect, their thinking.

• 1:00:38Ryan Holiday?

  Can I show you the bookstore?

• 1:00:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:00:40Ryan Holiday?

  Let's do it.

• 1:00:40Speaker 01

  Good, thank you.