Why Bert Kreischer Thinks He Needs a Stoic Coach

Bert Kreischer and Ryan continue their conversation about the tension between discipline and indulgence, why Bert sometimes feels better hungover than sober, and the pull of routines built around punishment and excess. Bert talks about quitting drinking, the daily “witching hour,” and why good news can be just as unsettling as bad. Bert Kreischer https://www.instagram.com/bertkreischer/?hl=en is a stand up comedian, actor, and podcast host of 2 Bears, 1 Cave https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/2-bears-1-cave-with-tom-segura-bert-kreischer/id1468013270. You can watch both his movie The Machine https://www.netflix.com/title/80992973and now his latest show, Free Bert https://www.netflix.com/title/81696123, on Netflix! Follow Bert on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/bertkreischer/?hl=en, TikTok https://www.tiktok.com/@bertkreischer?lang=en, X https://x.com/bertkreischer, and YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@bertkreischer Bert’s new series Free Bert https://www.netflix.com/title/81696123is officially out on Netflix! Watch Here: https://www.netflix.com/title/81696123 🎥 Watch the video episodes on The Daily Stoic YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/@DailyStoic/videos: https://www.youtube.com/@DailyStoic/videos https://www.youtube.com/@DailyStoic/videos 🎙️ Follow The Daily Stoic Podcast on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/dailystoicpodcast/?hl=en: https://www.instagram.com/dailystoicpodcast https://www.instagram.com/dailystoicpodcast ✉️ Want Stoic wisdom delivered to your inbox daily? Sign up for the FREE Daily Stoic email at https://dailystoic.com/dailyemail https://dailystoic.com/dailyemail 🏛 Get Stoic inspired books, medallions, and prints to remember these lessons at the Daily Stoic Store: https://store.dailystoic.com/ https://store.dailystoic.com/ 📱 Follow us: Instagram https://www.instagram.com/dailystoic/, Twitter https://twitter.com/dailystoic, YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@DailyStoic, TikTok https://www.tiktok.com/@daily_stoic?lang=en, and Facebook https://www.facebook.com/dailystoic See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Ryan Holiday?

  Welcome to the Daily Stoic Podcast, designed to help bring those four key Stoic virtues, courage, discipline, justice, and wisdom into the real world.

• 0:14Ryan Holiday?

  Hey, it's Ryan. Welcome to another episode of the Daily Stoic Podcast. You know, it's, it's hard to put stuff out in the world, right? You work really hard on something, then you put it out there and then other people get a say, right? They decide whether they're going to laugh at the joke or not. They decide whether they're going to buy the thing you're selling or not. They decide whether to vote for you. And that's really hard, right? It's in a way, it challenges one of the most important principles in Stoicism, which is to not care about things that are not in your control. And, and that is outside your control. And yet you can't do your job well or be compensated for that job if, if you can't figure out a way to both care and not care. I don't know. It's, it's a challenge.

• 0:56Ryan Holiday?

  So when I had Bert Kreischer on the podcast, this is one of the things we talked about because his new show Free Bert had just come out. Like I heard him walk in, I was sitting in the back of the studio, working on something. I heard him come in and he was just hearing from like people on his team about where it had landed, like how it was doing on Netflix. Like, because Netflix in real time is showing like what the most popular stuff is, right? In some ways Netflix is a black box. They don't tell you exactly how many downloads or how something's doing. Like with Amazon, you know, there's a ranking and you obviously want to do well on that ranking. It's really challenging, right? It makes you vulnerable, even if you think what you did is awesome. Well, now there's a big thumbs up or a big thumbs down telling you whether that's true or not.

• 1:39Ryan Holiday?

  So that was something we talked about on the episode. This is part two, and he had just found out that he had debuted at number two, which was well deserved because it's a great show. Samantha and I watched all six episodes. I thought it was really funny. And in part two of my interview with Burt, we talk about why he wants a Seneca in his life, his definition of success, his current sobriety. And as we were just talking about, not letting other people's opinions determine your mood or your... Your sense of whether you did a good job or not. And of course, he tells some insane stories. If you didn't listen to part one, you should. You could start with that, but Bert Kreischer is a stand up comedian and actor. He's the host of Two Bears, One Cave.

• 2:24Ryan Holiday?

  You can watch his movie, The Machine, on Netflix and then his new show, Free Bert. He is a touring stand up comic who sells out arenas all over the world. Not only was Bert hilarious, but he was super nice. He invited everyone on the Daily Stoic and Painted Porch team to come see his show. A bunch of the people went and they, they said it was hilarious. He let them come backstage after, invited them to the after party. I had to leave to go pick up my, my son from school right after the interview. And he shot the shit with Samantha and everyone. He was like, you gotta talk to my wife. And the next thing you know, she's FaceTiming with Leanne. He is just a incredibly sweet and kind human being. I, I asked Whitney Cummings what I should ask Bert. And she just said, like, Bert's got it all figured out.

• 3:08Ryan Holiday?

  He's just winning, not just he's successful, but he, he like is in a loving marriage and has a great relationship with his kids. She's like, he did it. That was totally the vibe I got. I think that's the vibe you're gonna get. Even if you're not a fan of his comedy, I think you're really gonna like this episode. Cause you, you just get a glimpse into, into who he is. And I like what I saw. You can follow Bert on all platforms at Bert Kreischer. You can watch Free Bert on Netflix and I hope you like this episode. Enjoy.

• 3:38Speaker 01

  Well, how do we get senecas in our lives? Like, how do you?

• 3:40Ryan Holiday?

  An advisor?

• 3:41Speaker 01

  Well, I would love a, I would love, like, right now I got a personal trainer and assistant.

• 3:45Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 3:45Speaker 01

  Okay. And all we do is giggle and just fuck around. But I would love like, yeah, I would love like a 70 year old man.

• 3:52Ryan Holiday?

  I was thinking about this, like, I'm not like an addict. I have some addictive tendencies, but I was like, I'm really jealous of people who are in recovery who have sponsors. Like someone you call before you do something dumb, you know? Or just like, I mean, I just had a shitty day. I'm thinking about, you know, what do I, it would be wonderful to have a sponsor. That should be a concept we have. I mean, ideally your parents are this or your grandparents are this, but not everyone gets that deck of cards. So.

• 4:17Speaker 01

  At a certain point, it's like, you know.

• 4:19Ryan Holiday?

  They can't understand because you're doing, dealing with things that they've never dealt with.

• 4:23Speaker 01

  I'm always jealous of people that go into rehab. I would love to go into rehab, just three months.

• 4:26Ryan Holiday?

  You can go.

• 4:27Speaker 01

  Nah, I can't. I got too much shit going on.

• 4:29Ryan Holiday?

  Maybe that's your addiction.

• 4:31Speaker 01

  The work, yeah.

• 4:32Ryan Holiday?

  That you can't take, I think about this. I did a thing once I went to a, it's not a rehab, but it, it is a rehab, but they have a thing. You go for like a week and you just work on all this stuff. You go through the program, but it not the addictive part. And it was just like, the amount of work I had to do to get seven days in a row off my schedule was like, oh, I do have a problem. Like,

• 4:54Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 4:54Ryan Holiday?

  You know, it's like, what good, cause it's something, the thing is like, you have all this success, you have money, you have theoretically you have power or, and then you're just like, but actually you have no power because your calendar is in charge.

• 5:05Speaker 01

  I'm on the road for 25 days straight, like every day for 25 days straight. And then I'm on the road touring for nine weeks straight. And I only have like a couple days here and there to get back. And a lot of times like this week, I'm just going to drive to Alabama. Cause I'm like, you know, screw it. It's easier to stay in the bus than to fly home on Sunday or fly home Monday to come home to go back on the road Wednesday. You're like, it doesn't make sense.

• 5:28Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah. And your kids are out of the house.

• 5:30Speaker 01

  My kids are in college and it's just me and my wife. But at the same time, I go like, I had a buddy that went to rehab and it was like, perfect timing. It was so great. And he came back and he was so grounded.

• 5:42Ryan Holiday?

  I was talking to Matt Berninger, that he's the lead singer of the, the National. And he was saying like, you know, you, you think like a week will be a vacation. And then he was like, it was only in the pandemic where it was like, he started calming down like six months in.

• 5:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:58Ryan Holiday?

  Like you think, you think you can get restored or relaxed or, or back, you know, with taking a couple of days off. And then you're not even close. You haven't even, you haven't even begun to start, uh, winding down.

• 6:12Speaker 01

  I remember on the ride back from the pandemic, we were in New Orleans and we were driving back and I had said, I had been in DC the, the weekend before and I was, and I was.

• 6:20Ryan Holiday?

  Oh, like to go into the lockdowns?

• 6:22Speaker 01

  To go into the lockdowns. We were in DC. We were doing DC, Boston, dot, dot, dot. And then we went to New Orleans and, um, In DC, I was partying in the mornings, doing a radio show and I knew I was partying that night and I knew that we were going out and we were pulling all nighter and going to Boston and then, and I said casually to my, you know, laying in my bus, I was like, I was like, God, I, God, I need like a break. Like, if you can give me like, just, I don't know how it's gonna happen.

• 6:46Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 6:46Speaker 01

  And I'd said, like, give me a TV show or something, or like a movie or something to slow me down.

• 6:51Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 6:51Speaker 01

  Cause the road's killing me. And then the next weekend, the pandemic hit and they're, they're like, yo, you gotta drive back to LA. And on the ride back, I was like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna stop drinking. When I get home, I'm not drinking through this as long as this lasts. I didn't know it was gonna be that long.

• 7:04Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 7:05Speaker 01

  Seven days in, I've never to this day done this. Seven days in, I fell asleep in a hammock. And I, in my backyard, in a hammock, and I woke up and I went, and I didn't have any thoughts.

• 7:17Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 7:18Speaker 01

  I didn't have any fears. I didn't have like, oh, I'm late for this. It was the craziest fucking feeling.

• 7:22Ryan Holiday?

  I know.

• 7:23Speaker 01

  But anytime I quit drinking, like, I'm not drinking now, and anytime I quit drinking, I literally, I'm like amazed at how easier life is.

• 7:31Ryan Holiday?

  Sure.

• 7:32Speaker 01

  Like, I went to bed the other night, I'd press at like six in the morning and I'm in New York and the national championships game is on and it's a great one. And it's now midnight, 12:30 and I'm like, God dang it. So I got drinking brain in my head. And I'm like, I'm gonna be a mess tomorrow. I go to sleep, I wake up at six thirty and I was like, I feel great.

• 7:48Ryan Holiday?

  Right.

• 7:49Speaker 01

  I was like, wow, this is, why do I, you know, and then I'll have dreams about drinking and think I'm gonna be hungover and then I wake up and I'm like, ah, that was a dream.

• 7:55Ryan Holiday?

  Actually, you're okay. Look, I gotta still quote that, that relates to this. I, I wanted to, I'm gonna give you this quote, you tell me what, what you think of it.

• 8:01Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 8:02Ryan Holiday?

  If you accomplish something good with hard work, the labor passes quickly, but the good endures. If you do something shameful in the pursuit of pleasure, the pleasure passes quickly, but the shame endures.

• 8:13Speaker 01

  Oh, I just think about Jack Shacks. Can't imagine those dudes who go to Jack Shacks and they're like, just like, you know, like a massage parlor where they get jerked off. I have a friend, I had a friend who was married and had kids and he would just, he was addicted to Jack Shacks.

• 8:26Ryan Holiday?

  Jesus.

• 8:27Speaker 01

  And he was like, he was like, it's crazy. Like, all the feelings going in are so great. And it's like my heart's racing and this and that. And then the second I come, I am filled with shame. And I'm like, uh, that's why I don't go.

• 8:39Ryan Holiday?

  We think about like, it's gonna be fun to go out drinking. And so that's like the pleasure part.

• 8:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:44Ryan Holiday?

  And then it's like the hangover the next day. That's a different person. Like it's not all part of the same. Like if you had to, you take the pleasure and then you put the afterward feeling on top. It balance, you're like, oh, this probably isn't worth it. But when you separate the two, you're able to rationalize it to yourself.

• 9:03Speaker 01

  No, not me. So, okay, so I'll tell you the difference I have. So I'm very punitive.

• 9:08Ryan Holiday?

  Okay.

• 9:08Speaker 01

  So, uh, and I love to close a bar at fucking three thirty in New York City. I love to close a bar at four thirty and see the, see the lights starting to change up in the sky. I love that feeling. I love.

• 9:19Ryan Holiday?

  It's my worst nightmare.

• 9:20Speaker 01

  Are you serious?

• 9:21Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah, I don't even want to be up till midnight.

• 9:23Speaker 01

  Okay. I love the feeling of getting after it. I love when someone goes, are you gonna have one more? And then you go, yeah. Or when you get there and like, do you want to drink? And then you watch the, the room crumble and everyone's like, are you gonna get one? And then you start seeing everyone's, I'll get one, I'll get one, yeah, yeah. And then you get lit. I love that feeling. Now here's the problem with me and this is, I think, I know for a fact what I'm, I'm dealing with in my head right now. Because this sobriety is very different than any sobriety. It is a health induced sobriety. It is like, yo, we had a health scare. You gotta be on these pills and you can't drink on these pills. And for, for six months. And so I had to look at that as a very different beast. Usually I get sober for a month.

• 10:08Speaker 01

  And I'm like, great, I feel great. Let's get back after it. Three months, great, let's get out, you know? So I had to think, I had to think more long-term about this. But the problem is, I love closing it down, but I also love getting up a little hungover with my, my brain thinking a little sideways. This is why I had a problem with the Hemingway quote.

• 10:25Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 10:25Speaker 01

  Is a little sideways, getting a cup of coffee, getting in the gym, murdering at the gym at like eight AM, 10 AM. And then that endorphin rush that I have through the whole day is crazy. The problem is if I can get rid of any part, it's not that morning tax that everyone feels like they pay. And it's not that I'm out too late. They pay, it would be five o'clock, what I call the witching hour at five o'clock.

• 10:47Ryan Holiday?

  The next day or the?

• 10:48Speaker 01

  In between days. Every day at five o'clock, I have this feeling of like, it's almost like a, like a hopeful, like, what do we, what are we doing tonight? Like where, where's, where's the adventure at tonight? What, who wants to have a drink? Like that energy of five o'clock? Usually when I'm not drinking, I just am very mindful of busying myself in the witching hour.

• 11:10Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 11:10Speaker 01

  For, so stand up is really great. Like if I do stand up, I don't drink. I would never drink until nine thirty at night.

• 11:15Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 11:15Speaker 01

  But that witching hour, that's where it's tough for me. Waking up, I have no problem waking up hungover. As a matter of fact, I would argue it's my superpower. Is that I can wake up hungover as fuck, go to the gym, kill it. I mean, kill it. And then after I do, the endorphins that hit me. Cold plunge sauna are like through the roof. I feel better after that than I do waking up sober. That's the truth.

• 11:38Ryan Holiday?

  Even if you do all, like, so if you, you woke up, you're stone cold sober, you work out, you do all this stuff, you have a great career. You think you're worse off if you haven't drank?

• 11:49Speaker 01

  Sometimes you wake up when you don't drink and you didn't sleep well, but you have no excuse.

• 11:54Ryan Holiday?

  Right.

• 11:55Speaker 01

  And you're tired, but there's no reason you're tired. And then you're like, huh, all right, let's just start. And then if you're on blood dinners, not supposed to have coffee. So you're like, I guess I don't get coffee.

• 12:05Ryan Holiday?

  Right.

• 12:05Speaker 01

  I will tell you the one difference and I, I'm, I'm journaling about this now. I'm, I started in my fifty three. At fifty three, I decided I would journal.

• 12:14Ryan Holiday?

  Okay.

• 12:14Speaker 01

  Cause I wanted to have more original thoughts.

• 12:16Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 12:17Speaker 01

  I woke up, national championship, six thirty call time. I woke up a little early and I was gonna go work out. And I went to the gym. I was very tired and I was at the gym and I was like, I was like, I feel good, but I'm like, I don't wanna work out. I go to the gym and it's packed cause it's fucking twenty degrees in New York. And then I decided to go for a walk in Central Park. Here's the difference and I've, I saw this. When you're sober and you've been sober for a, a week, couple of weeks, few weeks, the blinders open up.

• 12:41Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 12:42Speaker 01

  When you're hungover, you do get blinders. And I watched a dude with blinders. Just smoking a cigarette, trying to get his dog to take a shit in the snow. And he was like, and you could tell. His world was right here. He had been out all night. He was like, come on booty, let's go. Come on, goddamn it, shit already, alright? And he's smoking a cigarette and he's cold, he doesn't have gloves on, no coffee yet, and he's like, goddamn it. And he just wants to go back to bed because his blinders are here. And I'm, you know, I'm sober, I feel great. I got a new lease on life, I'm healthy right now. And all of a sudden, my blinders are out here and I'm seeing the trees and I'm seeing the rocks and I'm going like, I'm shooting like videos to my daughters, I'm sending videos to my daughters about like, yo, I just want you to know how happy I am and.

• 13:22Ryan Holiday?

  That seems better.

• 13:23Speaker 01

  It is, it is, it is better, but you know, I mean, you look at like people with depression and you're like, they're not drinking.

• 13:29Ryan Holiday?

  Maybe they are.

• 13:30Speaker 01

  Maybe they are, I don't know. I know, but I think I'm a little bit of a different. I feel like I beat myself up in the morning if I've been drinking and I go, let's get after it, let's get in the gym, let's push it, let's. See how hard.

• 13:39Ryan Holiday?

  You have like this kind of like, Dr. Drew said to me once, he called it exercise bulimia. Where you, you, you eat bad and then you work out like.

• 13:47Speaker 01

  My sister called it hypogymnasia. She's like, you go to the gym too mu- you're going to the gym because you, if you don't punish yourself as much, you don't have to work out as hard.

• 13:56Ryan Holiday?

  Yes.

• 13:56Speaker 01

  And I was like, yeah, but I don't think, like, I don't think sober, I work out as hard as I do hungover.

• 14:00Ryan Holiday?

  Sure. Yeah. So maybe you, it's like that little bit of shame is kind of like an edge for you and it makes you feel a little bit alive.

• 14:07Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 14:08Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 14:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's nothing like getting up and going like, you piece of shit. You earned this. You wanted to be out last night, you earned this. No, no, no, no, no, no. You want to be the fun boy, you want to be the party boy? That's great, that's great. But you're not gonna be the fucking joke you get in the gym. You sweat this out and that first second, you feel sweat kick in.

• 14:27Ryan Holiday?

  I like that feeling where it's like right before you sweat and you feel like you're like a little bit all clogged up and then it breaks.

• 14:33Speaker 01

  It breaks, dude. I hate stretching and I will, I will lean into a stretch and go like, like we do shoulder taps every morning. And I'm doing shoulder taps going like this, going like, if I go slower, the sweat starts sooner.

• 14:45Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 14:45Speaker 01

  And I love that feeling of the first sweat and I love, my favorite feeling of any workout is when you finish and you laid on the floor and you just, I love that feeling.

• 14:56Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah. Yeah, I went to the gym yesterday. I don't, I don't do a lot of gym stuff. I usually just run or swim. It was a good workout, but then I was like, I still have to do the cardio thing to get that feeling.

• 15:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:06Ryan Holiday?

  Or I'm, I'm not like even.

• 15:08Speaker 01

  Hungover, you, the sweat kicks in so quick.

• 15:11Ryan Holiday?

  True, that's true.

• 15:23Speaker 01

  What does a day of yours look like? Do you read at night?

• 15:26Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah, I usually read before bed.

• 15:27Speaker 01

  Really? Like my manager, it's the show just came out. Everyone's trying to talk to me.

• 15:31Ryan Holiday?

  I know that feeling very, I was gonna ask you about that. Like, you know, that feeling? I think about it, it's positive and negative. It's like you have a day where you crush it or the day that's bad. And it's like, I try to go like, am I gonna waste this entire day? Either like doom scrolling or celebrating? Or am I gonna tune it out and just like for, for book publishing? The sales are basically Sunday to Sunday, but then you don't find out whether you hit, where you hit the New York Times list until Wednesday. And so I go like, I'm not gonna fucking waste Wednesday or to, you know what I mean? Like, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna have an unproductive day because I'm waiting around for news. Or I get the news and then I spend all day celebrating. Or I get the bad news and I spend all day like, you know, how the fuck, you know?

• 16:12Speaker 01

  That's really funny. I was thinking about that because I was like, well, tomorrow's either gonna be a good day or bad day.

• 16:17Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 16:17Speaker 01

  But I was thinking about that last night.

• 16:19Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 16:19Speaker 01

  And I'm listening to you talk about Stoicism. And in this Stoicism conversation, I heard the boxer slept 11 hours.

• 16:27Ryan Holiday?

  Yes.

• 16:28Speaker 01

  And 11 and a half hours right before his fight. And then he slept four hours before.

• 16:31Ryan Holiday?

  Floyd Patterson, yeah.

• 16:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, Floyd Patterson.

• 16:33Ryan Holiday?

  Yes.

• 16:34Speaker 01

  And I know that at like probably what, three in the morning? Netflix will get numbers, four in the morning, five in the morning, whenever, like six in the morning, whenever they get numbers. And I know that they're gonna text me.

• 16:43Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 16:43Speaker 01

  Not numbers, but they're gonna text me where I land on the chart. And I was in my head, I was like, I'm doing negotiations in my head. I'm like, all right, if, if Free Bird gets in the top 10, breaks top 10 trending, that's a win. That, let's just leave it at that, that's a win. And I go, what if it doesn't get in the top 10? And I was like, don't, don't think like that. It's gonna get in the top 10, it's gotta get in the top 10, right? And then I was like, but I don't know, and look at the top 10, there's a lot of big ones. His and hers is like the hottest show right now. And I'm like, okay, stop. So it's not going number one, we get that. But like, where are we gonna go? I go, if it gets to number six, that's a win. I go, if it got to number like. For this, I mean, look, it's got America's Got Talent or whatever the big star search just came out and all I go, all right, stop all this unless this I go, the stoic just goes to bed.

• 17:23Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 17:24Speaker 01

  And the stoic doesn't worry about it.

• 17:25Ryan Holiday?

  One of my proudest accomplishments is not the first time I hit number one on New York Times. I remember I was in LA doing press. This is when Stillness was coming out and I was staying at the Los Angeles Athletic Club, which is one of my favorite places in to stay because they have this amazing swimming pool. And I get up because it's West Coast. So the news is on the East Coast. So I get up, even though I'm getting up early, they have the news and I can see there's just like, you know, my alarm goes off on my phone. I can see just a bunch of texts and I go, okay, so this is either good news or bad news, right? It's my agent either being like, you did it. It's amazing. Or like, don't worry about it. You just got, you know, like it's about the, it's about, it's a marathon, not a sprint.

• 17:59Speaker 01

  It's a marathon, not a sprint. The fuck it is.

• 18:01Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah. And I was like, you know what?

• 18:03Speaker 01

  But the guy that wins the marathon isn't at the back.

• 18:05Ryan Holiday?

  I was like, I'm gonna, I was like, I'm gonna wake up. I'm gonna go swimming. I'm gonna do my journaling.

• 18:12Speaker 01

  Whoa, whoa, whoa. This is crazy. Talk to me. Keep going.

• 18:15Ryan Holiday?

  I was like, I'm gonna, I was like, I'm gonna do my normal routine as if I don't like news, good or bad, I'm gonna do the routine and, and then have a good morning. And then that way, whether the news is good or bad, I've had a good morning and I'm like prouder of the discipline to do that than the discipline to it. That was my first time hitting number one. So the news was good, but I'm actually like, I think back, I was like, when I think back of whether I'm a person who's capable of deland gratification or like exhibiting some self sense of self-control, it's that I looked at my phone, knew it was news I wanted and then made a good, healthy decision instead of deciding to blow up my day right there.

• 18:57Speaker 01

  Okay. I'll give you the exact opposite.

• 18:58Ryan Holiday?

  Okay.

• 18:59Speaker 01

  So I woke up at six o'clock this morning and I just woke up naturally like, like, oh, I gotta go to the bathroom. I go to the bathroom and I'm like, because I drink a ton of water before I go to bed.

• 19:09Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 19:10Speaker 01

  I go to the bathroom. I get back in bed. I'm still really tired. I go, I'm gonna go to sleep. I go, there's no way they got numbers yet because I'm thinking LA. So we go to sleep. I wake up at like, at like eight. Now I know that sometimes when you're in LA, the numbers you don't get like answers until later and later in the morning, like nine o'clock in the morning is usually where I get it at in LA. And I go, don't look at Netflix. And then I was like, well, who doesn't look at Netflix? I was like, wait, you the answer is there. Were you afraid of the answer? Yeah. Why don't you find out your truth now? And I go, but don't do it. And I go, why don't you just start your day? And I go, yeah, but the answer is there. What are we going to not look at the answer? So I go to Netflix and it's just the wind wheels spinning. And I go, no, that's the Lord telling me not to look at Netflix. Don't do it. Did you close it? I closed it.

• 19:55Speaker 01

  And then I was like, I was like, I'm out. And then I was like, hold on. Okay, let's just go to the, let's go, let's go to the login page and see a free birds on the login page. Like the where your names are. Yeah. So I go, and it's fucking goddamn Mike Epps. And I'm like, fucking shit. Okay. So I go, all right, we didn't have a good day. It, I would be on the, I would be on that, on the login, meaning not, not the, where it's got the, I'm saying where your, all your accounts are. So I go, no, no, no, no. And so I go to my texts and I got like four texts. I go, okay. All right, and no one's up. I get it. And then, and then one of the texts is a group text. And in the group text, I see a name who works at Netflix. And I go, huh, it must be from last night. Yeah. Like it must be from late last night. Like a congratulations. We were in a group text with all the Netflix people. And so I click it and it's a screen grab of the top 10 trending.

• 20:40Speaker 01

  And it's in free birds number two, which I was like, if I could. Better than you expected. Wildly, like beyond my imagination, better. And then I'm like, and then I read the text and they're like, congrats, fucking dot, dot, all these great things. And then I go, great. And then I go, yeah, thank God. And then I go to Netflix, I look at Netflix, I see it. And then I see that me on the front page and it's like top 10 trending. And I'm like, nice, nice, nice. And then I'm like, it's almost like I got, I'm going to this, I apologize to your listeners. I'm, I sometimes I tell a story to explain a story and it's so not helpful. Oh, you're good. I was in Naples, Florida one time and I got out of a Starbucks and, and I heard a crash. My glasses had been fogged over because from the cold to the hot. And I heard a crash.

• 21:24Speaker 01

  I thought a transformer exploded and there was a French guy walking towards me and he goes, you are a lucky guy. And I went, no, yeah. And I thought he just knew me. I was like, I actually am. Just in life. Yeah. And then he goes, one inch, you're dead. And I went, yeah, one inch and I'm dead. And I was like, huh? And as he walked by, I turned around and a huge palm frond, like a 400 pound palm frond had landed at my heels. And it, and it just missed my head. And I realized, had I not stopped, had I not moved forward or had I stopped a foot earlier to clean my glasses? Yeah. Had I stopped a foot later? I'd be dead or very badly injured. And I said, wow, I have a second chance at life.

• 22:08Speaker 01

  And I wish that lasted longer than 30 minutes.

• 22:11Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 22:12Speaker 01

  And so, and so as today, I get that news, I go, that's great. And I don't realize, hey, Bert, let's take this good news and figure out how we would have worked out if it had not been good. And let's work on that side of you because also you will get bad news one day. And that bad news would have ruined my, I would be a much different interview today had I not gotten that. And it, and it's so crazy. I have no control over that. And that, as I was, we talk about Stoicism, I go, I'm sure there's times George Washington was like, that's not the turnout I wanted. God damn it, Bunker Hill or whatever, you know?

• 22:47Ryan Holiday?

  No, he, he, he lost like a lot of battles in the Revolutionary War, like way more than he won.

• 22:52Speaker 01

  And I bet he fucking journaled the next morning and it was like, God damn it, Martha. This isn't what I thought was gonna happen. My teeth hurt like I'm fucking getting fucked in the ass left and right by these. And then I just go like, instead of going like, it's almost like the gratitude disappears and I, and I don't, I don't have full grasp of how much that should mean to me. Does that make sense?

• 23:17Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah, yeah. I think there's a couple of things there. Number one, it's like, if you can get good at not seeking out or being so dependent on the good news, it means you're also gonna be not so wrecked and, you know, vulnerable to the bad news, which is inevitable.

• 23:35Speaker 01

  Okay. So can you work it backwards, forwards? Can I work it where, I, I want to start with not getting wrecked by bad news?

• 23:40Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah, that's a better place to start. Right.

• 23:42Speaker 01

  And then, and then have it help me with not getting, not getting, and, and working with the good news because the bad news will defeat me. I have one day in particular that I remember. Reading something a guy posted and it was like, I was just like, like you said, I, I, I hit a post and I go, wow. Ninety eight thousand likes and I go, oh, let's see what the big boy is doing today. And then you hit comments and the first one's fucking horrible. A hundred and forty eight replies, all defending me. But that first one hits me and I walk through my backyard, which is beautiful. I mean, I have all the things.

• 24:19Ryan Holiday?

  Better than you could have ever dreamed of getting in your life.

• 24:22Speaker 01

  I will say that in my life, I've, I wanted yards. I want space. I want yards and in LA they're hard to come by. And we got so lucky with this house that we have such a spectacular backyard. That I had to stop doing the podcast at my house because people would come into our backyard and go, what the fuck? And I was like, and it started making me self-conscious. But this backyard that I love and I love walking through the grass under the huge trees in my backyard in LA.

• 24:47Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 24:47Speaker 01

  I love walking that long walk to my gym and I, I, I was, as I was walking it, I was just couldn't appreciate my backyard for this comment.

• 24:55Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 24:55Speaker 01

  And I thought, I really thought, I got on the treadmill and I go, I can't, I, that's the day. I literally had to stop reading all comments because I said, I cannot allow someone who doesn't know me and absolutely doesn't like me, but doesn't know me. Doesn't know me and doesn't like me for whatever reason is internally has to be theirs. I can't have them own a day of mine.

• 25:17Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 25:17Speaker 01

  Like, and then they, then I, they have real estate in my head and I no longer get to enjoy my day.

• 25:25Ryan Holiday?

  Right.

• 25:25Speaker 01

  When I've, I deserve to, everyone deserves to enjoy their day.

• 25:28Ryan Holiday?

  Of course.

• 25:28Speaker 01

  Now, I listen, I get it. I'm, I put myself out, I'm, I'm putting myself out here and there are people that won't like this. You talk too much. Why don't you talk more about so greats or whatever? And then, or Socrates. And so, sorry, it's a Ted and Bill. But like, I understand that I put myself out and I understand that if you're listening, you're allowed to hate me.

• 25:42Ryan Holiday?

  Sure. You're allowed to live your life and like your life. You just have to figure out a way to do that. Everyone does. That isn't dependent on what other people say.

• 25:50Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 25:51Ryan Holiday?

  And that's, I think that's the work of it. I try, like, here's what I would say. Like, let's say you were sitting here on your show and it was at number twenty two because, I don't know, something else happened, right? Here, here's what. I would walk through, I'd be like, uh, do you like the show?

• 26:05Speaker 01

  Yes, I'm very proud of it.

• 26:06Ryan Holiday?

  Did you have fun making it?

• 26:07Speaker 01

  I has, I loved it.

• 26:08Ryan Holiday?

  Did you get better making it?

• 26:10Speaker 01

  Yes, by the end, I'm such a better actor.

• 26:12Ryan Holiday?

  Does it say what you set out to say?

• 26:15Speaker 01

  Yes, well, okay, that's complicated. Yes.

• 26:17Ryan Holiday?

  A lot of what you wanted to say.

• 26:18Speaker 01

  I want, yes, 100%, 100%.

• 26:21Ryan Holiday?

  And then, uh, did you make some money on it?

• 26:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:24Ryan Holiday?

  Like, you're going down the, like, whether people like it or not is like the 15th layer of success. Do you know what I mean? Like, what I've tried to do on my books, and I'll, I'll give you a thing afterwards that where it's a little bit of the downside to it, but like, I try to go like, hey, I already, I already fucking won. I like, first off, I get to do my dreams, so that's a win.

• 26:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:43Ryan Holiday?

  Second, like, I challenged myself on the project, I got better. Uh, by the way, the way advances work, I'm already in the money.

• 26:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:50Ryan Holiday?

  Right? And I said what I wanted to say, you know, I had fun while I was doing, blah, blah, blah. Like, I already got 95% of what I'm gonna wring out of this thing. You know, like, now, if it happens to become a flywheel and it's spinning off royalties, that's extra. And if people, if it's winning awards and people are saying they like it and it helps them, again, that's all extra, but I already got most of what I could ever expect to get out of it. And I got all the parts out of it that were in my control, right? Like, you don't control where it debuts, you don't control what people say about it. So like, if your version of, if, if your definition of, your definition of success for a project, is it largely based on the parts of it that are up to you? Or is it largely based on the parts that are up to other people? To me, that's what you want to think about.

• 27:35Speaker 01

  Okay, well, that's really tough. That's really tough. Because I will say, as a stand-up comedian, my success is entirely based on their response. So like, I can't go, but I did great. They just, you know, I got the money.

• 27:51Ryan Holiday?

  Sure.

• 27:51Speaker 01

  I got the, I like, like, say I do Tonight Show, or, uh, I don't, I don't know where the fuck I am. I thought I was at a theater and I'm not. I'm at like some different venue. So I, I thought I was, I thought there was a place called the Moody Theater.

• 28:04Ryan Holiday?

  The Moody Theater is an arena.

• 28:06Speaker 01

  Okay, whatever. Well, I don't know what the fuck I'm at.

• 28:08Ryan Holiday?

  There's like five Moody's in Austin, it's really.

• 28:10Speaker 01

  I'm one of the Moody's.

• 28:11Ryan Holiday?

  Yes.

• 28:11Speaker 01

  And so.

• 28:12Ryan Holiday?

  But I think you're in the big one. Where the, where the, um, where UT plays.

• 28:16Speaker 01

  No, I played there before. I'm, I'm in the smaller one. I'm in like, uh, uh, but it's like the three tiered.

• 28:21Ryan Holiday?

  Oh.

• 28:21Speaker 01

  Kind of like, it's like ACL Live or something.

• 28:24Ryan Holiday?

  Yes, okay.

• 28:25Speaker 01

  So, um.

• 28:26Ryan Holiday?

  Oh, yeah, Moody Center, Moody Theater.

• 28:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:28Ryan Holiday?

  And then there's Moody Amphitheater, which is outside.

• 28:31Speaker 01

  And then there's the Moody Blues. You're not old enough.

• 28:34Ryan Holiday?

  That's the band?

• 28:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:36Ryan Holiday?

  Okay, I was like, is there?

• 28:40Speaker 01

  How old are you?

• 28:42Ryan Holiday?

  I'm thirty eight.

• 28:43Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 28:43Ryan Holiday?

  I was, there's an episode of The Simpsons where they can drive through Vegas and it's just the Moody Blues are playing at every, every casino and I think about it all the time.

• 28:51Speaker 01

  What's your favorite Simpsons quote?

• 28:54Ryan Holiday?

  Favorite Simpsons quote?

• 28:55Speaker 01

  Oh, like, do you have a?

• 28:57Ryan Holiday?

  Well, my favorite Simpsons episode is the trash, the trash commissioner episode, when he becomes the trash commissioner and then the food critic. Those are my two favorites.

• 29:04Speaker 01

  My favorite, so like the, the things that live rent free in my head. Number one is when Homer's making, uh, hot dogs for everyone and he goes over to the cop, uh, the barn, it was a barn, not Barney, uh, what's his name, the cop?

• 29:19Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 29:19Speaker 01

  And he has a drink, he goes, topper for the copper? I say that almost every, topper for the copper, I say that all the time. And then my favorite quote out of any Simpsons is when, uh, they have Stampy the Elephant. And Lisa gets Stampy the Elephant and Homer brings clearly an ivory salesman over and Lisa goes, he goes, she goes, dad, I think he might be an ivory dealer. And he goes, Lisa, what makes you say that? And she goes, well, I don't know. His boots are made of ivory, his keychains made of ivory, his belt buckles made of ivory, his hat's made of ivory, made out of ivory. He goes, Lisa, clearly was someone that with that much ivory would not be in need of more ivory.

• 30:03Speaker 01

  I told, Conan O'Brien wrote that episode.

• 30:06Ryan Holiday?

  Oh, he did?

• 30:06Speaker 01

  I think, I'm almost certain that I told him the first time I ever met him, ivory salesman's my favorite line and he just rattled it off.

• 30:24Speaker 01

  I forget what I was saying. Oh, I was saying it was stand up.

• 30:26Ryan Holiday?

  Yes. The audience matters.

• 30:28Speaker 01

  The approval. So like The Machine, my movie, did not do well in theaters and I ignored that. And, and it was Tom who brought it to my attention. Maybe rightfully so or not rightfully so, but like it came out. I got a text from Arnold Schwarzenegger and he was like, number four in the theaters. And the box office isn't bad. Congrats. That's, that's awesome. These days, well, it only made like fourteen thousand dollars in the theaters and fourteen million dollars. Yeah. It would cost thirty five million dollars to make. It did not do well in the theaters. Yeah. But I was like a first grader looking at my lunchbox going like, fuck, yes, I love peanut butter and jelly. I love Twinkies and I'll eat an apple because mom says I'll eat an apple, right? And then look at any other people's lunchboxes. And then I think Tom was the one that was like, so how do you feel about The Machine?

• 31:12Speaker 01

  And I go, fuck, I'm excited. I go, it's awesome. I, all I was thinking about what you said. I moved to Serbia for three months to make a movie. I made a movie. I starred in a movie. And I, I saw a premiere of a movie where the response was through the roof with everyone in the theater. Everyone told me how much they loved it. And in my head, I was again, Tom goes, but it, you know, it, you know, casually, just like it didn't do well in the theater. Not to like, but just my best friend. And I went, yeah, but I think it did number four. And he goes, out of five. And I was like, in my, in my head, I'm, I'm really glass half filling it. And then I started reading, like, I was like, I was, this is when I was reading comments. I would read like reviews of the movie. And they were somewhat, I mean, they had to be accurate because I feel like reviewers.

• 31:55Speaker 01

  I don't feel like reviewers have a grudge against someone they don't know, right? And so, and they were like, what a narcissistic move to make a movie about yourself. And then I was like, oh. I mean, that's like ninety percent of art. Yeah. And then, and but then I'm reading them. I'm like, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God. And I remember some of Netflix was like casually, we're at a Lakers game. This guy that works at Netflix is pretty big up. He was like, uh, nice. I said, what? And he goes, tanks in the movie theater is gonna crush on Netflix. And I was like, huh? But I was already in failure mode. I was like, wow, this thing I was so proud of, it's almost like having a, your kid and send them to first grade and then finding out your kid's a nerd. And you're like, but I like my kid. Yeah. You know, and then, then I came back and then Netflix, and then it streamed number one on Netflix movies for a month. It was number one for a month.

• 32:39Speaker 01

  And then the reception was crazy, but I already had this negative.

• 32:42Ryan Holiday?

  See, this is what I mean. Yeah, like you're whipsawing around.

• 32:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:46Ryan Holiday?

  And it's something closer to your original opinion of it was actually the accurate thing.

• 32:51Speaker 01

  That's, I think that's the accurate thing. And I remember, I remember going, I'll tell you another one. I'm going to give you a perfect one. This is the most accurate one. And by the way, this is one that your listeners will be able to go, okay, I can't, I'm not going to sit and watch the movie. I'm not going to watch first new TV show. Please do it. Free bird is streaming on Netflix. I really stand by it. It's really good. I think, yeah, thank you. The Tom Brady roast.

• 33:12Ryan Holiday?

  Yes.

• 33:13Speaker 01

  Uh, Tom and I did together.

• 33:15Ryan Holiday?

  I saw, I saw.

• 33:16Speaker 01

  I, we got done and I was through the roof. I was ecstatic with the experience. It was one of the coolest things I've ever done. I think Tom and I did great. We had a solid double. I don't think we were Nikki or, or, or Tony, but, but listen, we weren't, we weren't Kim Kardashian or Ben Affleck, right? So anywhere in between there, I was like, listen, as long as they're not talking about you. Tom came in the next day and he's like, you know, we bombed. And I went, what? And he was like, we bombed. They say we bombed. I go, who? And he goes, the internet's saying we bombed. And I went, I'm not listening to him.

• 33:43Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 33:43Speaker 01

  And he goes, but they're saying we bombed. And I go, I don't give a fuck. I go, I was there with you. You stood next to me. Like when we got done, we hugged because we did great. Like the room, we were in the room, Tom. And then no one that night told us we bombed. They hugged us and said, great job. So wait, what are we listening to? The internet or, or what our experience was? And he goes, the internet. And I went, why would we listen to the internet? And he was like, that's what they're saying. I mean, you gotta acknowledge it. And I was like, I don't. And he goes, well, we're having Tony on the pod, Tony Hinchcliffe on the podcast. And then Tony really reads the internet and then Tony's, and then, and then Tom's like, the internet says we bombed. I go, not me. And then Tony just goes, I guess you weren't in the room.

• 34:26Speaker 01

  And I was like, what the fuck are you? I literally, I think in the podcast, I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about? Like, I'll give you flowers and say you crushed, but let's not, let's not Monday morning quarterback this and say we bombed. We didn't, but then I was, I'm torn on that Tom Brady roast when people ask me about it. Cause I go, I have Tom, the internet and Tony's response. And then I go, am I a delusional kid? That goes, my experience trumps it. But when you say that, I stand by, I was in that room. Not one person, listen, the biggest backlash I got out of that is I read everyone's prompter.

• 35:00Speaker 01

  And I'll stand by that and everyone can suck my dick. I think I fall in love with the idiot that reads everyone's prompter. I can't believe that you wouldn't love a what about Bob character who just sat there reading everyone's prompter and giggling to himself. I was shocked that that made people hate me.

• 35:15Ryan Holiday?

  I thought was hilarious.

• 35:16Speaker 01

  I was like blown away that I go, so I, in my head, I was like, if you hate me for reading prompter and you're saying I bombed, I, I can't be on your page. And that was the first, like, right after that was my first lean into Stoicism of like, well, hold on, am I, am I crazy if I make my truth the truth?

• 35:39Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah, I mean, look, obviously there's realities of the business. Like, if you're getting up there, you're, you're on tour and it's getting no laughs in the room.

• 35:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:47Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah, like, like, if I go, hey, I care about whether I accomplish it. If the book sells zero copies, that's going to affect the advance next time and then the next time, and then there probably won't be a time after that. Like, there, there is the reality, it's like, same goes, like, um, if you're a salesperson, you're like, well, the call went well to me. Like, at the end of the day, like, if they don't buy, you, you don't get your commission and then they fire you. But like, an athlete that is, like, an athlete's got to go, hey, the shot felt good coming off my hands, it's not going to go in a hundred percent of the time.

• 36:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:18Ryan Holiday?

  Right? So like, you, you got to get out of the, what do they think? What's, you got to get out of that and back into the thing as quickly as possible.

• 36:25Speaker 01

  Back into the thing that makes you.

• 36:27Ryan Holiday?

  The part that's in your control, which is the act itself and the, the doing of the, whatever it is that you do.

• 36:33Speaker 01

  My thing, my big, my big force lately has been pull out both sides, try to get rid of both sides and just stay playful in life. I want to stay playful, I want to giggle, and there's like a sparkle in life that if you can hold on to, that I think that, that's my driving force in life. And I want everything to have that shine and that sparkle, you know, and, and not have to attach alcohol or food to it.

• 36:56Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 36:56Speaker 01

  To get the shine or sparkle, just to be able to go walk down the street and go, or walk through Central Park and go, I'm seeing all the trees. I thought this is beautiful, you know, like.

• 37:04Ryan Holiday?

  It should be fun.

• 37:05Speaker 01

  This should be fun.

• 37:06Ryan Holiday?

  It should be fun.

• 37:06Speaker 01

  Stand up should be fun and silly and goofy and, and it's like, that's.

• 37:09Ryan Holiday?

  But it just holds me to life. Why should life, like, life sucks in a bunch of ways, so the parts of it that are up to you should be good.

• 37:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:22Ryan Holiday?

  Thanks so much for listening. If you could rate this podcast and leave a review on iTunes, that would mean so much to us and it would really help the show. We appreciate it, and I'll see you next episode.