Good vibes only? The science behind optimism and manifestation

Psychologist Deepika Chopra says that optimism isn’t about being positive all the time. It’s about staying open, curious and resilient. In her new book, The Power of Real Optimism, she explains the science behind optimism and evidence-based manifestation, and how affirmations done the right way can lead to success. Follow us on Instagram: @nprlifekit https://www.instagram.com/nprlifekit/?hl=en Sign up for our newsletter here. https://www.npr.org/newsletter/life-kit Have an episode idea or feedback you want to share? Email us at [email protected] mailto:[email protected] Support the show and listen to it sponsor-free by signing up for Life Kit+ at plus.npr.org/lifekit http://plus.npr.org/lifekit See pcm.adswizz.com https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences. NPR Privacy Policy https://www.npr.org/about-npr/179878450/privacy-policy

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• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:24Marielle Segarra?

  You're listening to Life Kit from NPR.

• 0:31Marielle Segarra?

  Hey, it's Marielle. You ever have somebody say to you, "Just be positive," when you're right in the middle of an impossibly hard life moment and it made you want to just punch them in the face? Well, I'm not trying to get punched. So today, we are not talking about positivity. We're talking about optimism.

• 0:49Speaker 02

  The two words that really come clear to mind when I'm thinking of optimism is resiliency and curiosity.

• 0:57Marielle Segarra?

  Deepika Chopra is a behavioral scientist with a doctorate in clinical health psychology, and her new book is called The Power of Real Optimism. Now, she says people tend to equate optimism with toxic positivity, and they say an optimist in today's world must either be naive or ignoring reality. But when Deepika talks about optimistic people, she means the ones who are aware of setbacks and roadblocks.

• 1:22Speaker 02

  But they see these things as temporary and something that they can overcome, even if they don't know how or when. But they know they can because it's based on their own personal historical resiliency.

• 1:35Marielle Segarra?

  So, quick tip. When you're looking for a shred of optimism in a tough time, remember, you can make it through this because you've made it through every single one of your hardest days to date. That's a fact that Deepika clung to when her world turned upside down a few years ago.

• 1:53Speaker 02

  My middle son, who at the time was two and a half, got handed this very... Earth-shattering medical diagnosis, and it was the darkest time of my life.

• 2:05Marielle Segarra?

  Her son was in treatment for a year and a half.

• 2:07Speaker 02

  I mean, there were many months where I hid underneath my office desk and cried and said, I cannot do this. Like, I can't do this.

• 2:17Marielle Segarra?

  But she could, and she did. Time passed, her son finished treatment. And because of that experience, Deepika says, she has a new understanding of just how much she and her family are capable of. It wasn't what you call a positive experience, but it did reinforce her optimism.

• 2:35Speaker 02

  I may not know what the future holds at all, but I know that I can, I will get through those hard things. They may break me again, like this did, but I will put myself back together. I really think that resiliency is a really big part of real optimism.

• 2:51Marielle Segarra?

  On this episode of Life Kit, real optimism. Life Kit reporter Andy Tagle talks to Deepika about the neuroscience of optimism, the secret power of visualizations and affirmations, and how to train your brain to be more optimistic on a daily basis.

• 3:14Marielle Segarra?

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• 4:06Speaker 04

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• 4:32Speaker 05

  Can anyone be an optimist? I took the quiz in your book and I landed on the high end. You know, it felt true to me, like someone who's mostly optimistic. And then I'm thinking of people I've known who seem naturally more inclined to see the glass half-empty. Is that natural? Are we innately one way or the other?

• 4:49Speaker 02

  So, there's been a lot of research on this and there's been a little bit of varying, but the most that I've ever seen related to a genetic component, a heritability aspect, is 25%. So, we have the ability to learn it. And so, that to me is very optimistic and great news. And so, I do believe that optimism is a muscle and we just have to work it out. And so, I believe that everyone can raise their optimism factor. And, you know, way back when, from an evolutionary standpoint, we are more predisposed to be pessimistic. Our ancestors always imagined the worst-case scenario. They planned for that and they survived and they passed that trait on.

• 5:34Speaker 02

  But, we know that in our modern world, to survive and to thrive is no longer equated to chronically and constantly imagining worst-case scenarios. So, we have to actively work this muscle out and train ourselves to be more optimistic in a real way because there are so many benefits, not just from an emotional standpoint of view, but even a physical standpoint of view that now we have via research on why optimism is so impactful and effective for you.

• 6:08Speaker 05

  Times are hard for a lot of people right now for a lot of different reasons.

• 6:12Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 6:13Speaker 05

  And I imagine with this book, with what you do, there's always a certain percent of the population of people who might say, because of the climate, because of all the uncertainty in the world, because of fill-in-the-blank. Right now is not the time for optimism. What's your response to those people?

• 6:32Speaker 02

  I actually feel quite the opposite. Right now is literally and quite possibly the most important time in our society and culture for real optimism. No change can be made without optimism. So I feel like when people are angry about the way that things are, it's important to have clarity on what's going on. And a lot of what I talk about is the opposite of numbing out or shying away or turning off the news or ignorance is bliss. I don't actually believe in those things. Of course, I believe in boundaries. But I believe that the real work of real optimism and the tools of it is what we need

• 7:17Speaker 02

  to be able to stay engaged and to keep looking and to keep showing up and to keep deeply caring. Our nervous system and our brains and bodies were not actually meant to. They were not made to experience this much. And so we need tools proactively to arm ourself with so that we can keep showing up and staying engaged. Because what we don't want are people that are apathetic or that are just numbed out. And so if there's one thing that I think is really necessary right now is to train. We need so many more real optimists right now.

• 7:55Speaker 05

  Takeaway one. Optimism can be learned. And often, many of us experience optimism across the spectrum in different parts of our lives. For example, maybe it's easy for you to stay hopeful when it comes to your career because you've got a lot of experience in that arena. But when it comes to your love life, you're all doom and gloom. So if you're seeking positive change, real, clear-eyed optimism can be a powerful tool to do that. But it's going to require some mental conditioning. Takeaway two. Try visualizing to shift your beliefs. Sensory-based visualization can help direct your attention to desirable outcomes and expand your belief in what is possible.

• 8:36Speaker 02

  The brain does not necessarily know the difference between something that it is imagining or that is a fantasy and something that is real. And that is because of our mirror neurons. And so, once we have visualized something, especially if we've used all of our senses, which make that visualization even more powerful, the brain starts to see that as a possibility and something that can happen. It's the same way in sports psychology, there's a lot of mental rehearsing. A lot of times, really, elite athletes are not only, obviously, practicing physically, but they're also mentally rehearsing. Visualization works for so many different things. Number one, I think on a more general level, it is an excellent way to dismantle negative

• 9:20Speaker 02

  self-beliefs. So like, for me, right now, I have a really, really strong self-limiting belief. And something that I really need to work on is, I do not see myself as a strong-bodied, like, athletic person. I find it really hard to work out it all. And I really want to be able to be someone that wakes up in the morning, or at some point, like, lifts weights and does something active, gets my heart rate up. And even that is so limiting for me, because I label myself and say out loud that that is just not me.

• 9:55Speaker 05

  To disrupt that idea. Deepika says she would visualize herself going through that morning routine, being as detailed as possible, and immersing herself in a sensory experience of that image. What is she wearing? How heavy are the weights? And what do they feel like? What playlist is playing in her headphones?

• 10:12Speaker 02

  The more you can be specific and rooted in reality, we know this about visual imagery, like, if there's a specific place in my house, but I see myself doing this, it will serve me better to visualize all the components of that place in detail, so that when I go there, or I am, like, met there, it will trip up my brain again with, like, wait, I've been here before. I have done this.

• 10:36Speaker 05

  A pro-visualization tip for beginners from Deepika. Try this practice in the shower. She says it's a good place to start because people often have the mental time and space to close their eyes and imagine. Another potential option? Whenever you've got a brief waiting period. Say, when you're in line at the grocery store, waiting for your stop at the bus, or during this brief upcoming break. Then, when we're back, we'll talk evidence-based affirmations.

• 11:10Speaker 04

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• 12:04Speaker 05

  You're back listening to Life Kit. What did you imagine while you were away? Were you stronger, smarter, kinder, cooler? Well, I've got another tool to help with that mental image: affirmations. Maybe simply hearing this term, due to its seeming ubiquitousness in the self-help space in the past few decades, makes you feel feelings. I don't blame you. But Deepika says it's important to know there are good neurological benefits to the practice when you're intentional about it.

• 12:37Speaker 05

  Takeaway three, words matter. Using optimistic language with yourself and those around you can help meaningfully shift your perspective. And reframing your thoughts with more self compassionate language is a common practice in other avenues, too, like cognitive behavioral therapy, for example, because those negative beliefs can get really sticky. An example I'm sure you're familiar with, confirmation bias. Deepika and I talked about our young kids and how quick toddlers can be to embrace or reject a personal attribute. Like, I can't play basketball. I never make it in the hoop. Or, it's just too hard. I'll never be able to learn to tie my shoes.

• 13:18Speaker 02

  We are evidence collectors. Our brains love evidence. The brain likes to believe what it already believes. So, we have to remind, and not just our two-year-olds, and like, this is just how our brains work. We can truly believe something and then go out in the world and seek out more evidence to make that true, even if that is not the whole story. And so, it's this idea that I always tell people, like, hey, why don't, for the rest of the day, I want you to think about red cards?

• 13:49Speaker 05

  If you're on the lookout for them, it's like the town's painted red, right? A larger point here being, what you're already thinking, already believing, your brain will seek out more of to make it true. That's why it's really important to be careful with your internal messaging.

• 14:04Speaker 02

  If there is a belief that you might have that is not serving you, then we need to work on, you know, other collection of evidence that slowly chip away at that.

• 14:15Speaker 05

  Enter affirmations. Phrases you repeat to yourself to reinforce positive beliefs about yourself and others. But they're not all created equal. In order for them to have any impact, you have to actually believe what you're telling yourself. That's why Deepika has a seven out of 10 rule. As in, on a scale of one to 10, how much do you want this thing? And how much do you actually believe it can happen for you or to you in the near future? If the answer is less than a seven for either question, start again. If you don't believe the thing, there's no point to it.

• 14:48Speaker 02

  Well, and not even that, like, not even, you know, at best, it's just not useful. At worst, it's actually pretty detrimental.

• 14:55Speaker 05

  For example, Deepika mentioned a client who desperately wanted a serious relationship in his life. But when she asked him what made him lovable, the idea that he could be lovable was almost laughable to him. So in that case, a daily affirmation of, I am someone's dream come true, or even, I am worthy of love and affection, was just too far outside of his reality to be helpful. It was like a one or a two out of 10.

• 15:22Speaker 02

  That is not enough of an expectation that this is going to happen. And so the work for us is in closing that gap. And how we do that is not by a 360 turnaround blanket affirmation. How we do that is, you know, you hold this belief that I don't, I don't love myself. You know, I don't believe that in myself. So the flip is not what we do. It's more like, hey, can you give me one thing, one thing that you like about yourself?

• 15:50Speaker 05

  This kind of reframing can also be helpful for those little day-to-day annoyances that, when they happen, can be like they're only ever happening to you.

• 15:59Speaker 02

  It's like when someone cuts you off. And like today, it happened in getting to the studio. I had just the right amount of time and I was just going to make it. But, you know, I made the wrong turn. And immediately I heard myself like, of course, it's always the times that I need to get somewhere, that I make the wrong decision. You know, this is always going to be this way. Or, you know, it's this idea of permanence when something goes wrong. Whereas the flip is sort of, when things go wrong, it's not always just you. There's a lot of circumstances, like, well, I know I left with just enough time, but next time, maybe I had the thought in my head, like, I should leave a little extra time for these type of things.

• 16:43Speaker 05

  Think about the last time you stubbed your toe, or got on the wrong train, or couldn't open a jar of jam. Did you see a terrible cramped apartment? Declare yourself hopeless, or curse the universe for having it out for you? Maybe next time, you could see an opportunity to rearrange the furniture and get creative. Enjoy the unexpected adventure, or be grateful for that strong, friendly neighbor next door.

• 17:07Speaker 05

  Our final offering to help shift into a more optimistic mindset: manifestation. I'll go ahead and let Deepika address your concerns right up front.

• 17:16Speaker 02

  I am not in the camp that believes in just wanting to win the lottery and then expecting it to fall into your lap. I think there is just like, and I think most people now get to the point where

• 17:31Speaker 05

  Understand that.

• 17:31Speaker 02

  They understand that, but there is still a lot of sort of the touting of that.

• 17:36Speaker 05

  The common misconception about manifestation, she says, is that it's a passive practice. People assume you can just will the universe to provide, radiate some positive energy, and then wait for the good times to roll in. Deepika's practice, on the other hand, what she calls evidence-based manifestation, is optimism backed up by action. To illustrate her point, she told me about her dad, who came to the US with $8 in his pocket from a small town in India. Today, he's a successful engineer and businessman.

• 18:08Speaker 05

  But before he had those titles and before he immigrated,

• 18:11Speaker 02

  He would cut out like cars and various different things and keep a scrapbook and not even just dream, but like, these things will be part of my life. And pretty much everything that was in that scrapbook of his has come to fruition.

• 18:23Speaker 05

  That's not because Deepika's dad made an OG vision board and then wished real hard on it. He left it behind in India, but he did zero in on his goals and his belief he could achieve them. So much so that he put in the blood, sweat, and tears to make them a reality, until they were.

• 18:41Speaker 02

  Only later did I learn about this scrapbook. And it was like, whoa, all these things, like, he's living them, not because they fell in his lap, like, he made all of those things happen and he believed he could.

• 18:52Speaker 05

  So, takeaway four: got big dreams, hoping for a brighter future. Evidence-based manifestation is optimism in action.

• 19:01Speaker 05

  It can help get you moving on that journey by shifting your attention, energy and beliefs toward your goals.

• 19:07Speaker 02

  On the whole, I think people really focus on the want. And they're not necessarily focusing on the expect. And they're not focusing on the journey and the hard work in actualizing it. And so, yes, you can visualize something, but in order to actualize it, it is a journey and it takes work. And you have to be also willing to visualize the setbacks and the less than ideal situations and the hiccups. And how will you be during those parts of it too? Because none of us are immune to struggle. I always say, you know, real optimism doesn't deny the dark. It just gives us a way to see within it.

• 19:46Speaker 05

  Let's say, growing up, you really wanted to be an astronaut. Just believing it's possible to set foot on the moon, wouldn't it be enough to get you into a spacesuit, of course? But if you hold on to that dream throughout your school years, that enthusiasm might lead you to certain books or clubs or friends, inspire you to pursue a particular university or major or entire career path.

• 20:09Speaker 02

  You're going to come up with so many ideas and you're going to understand what the work is. And then on top of it, if you persevere through that, maybe along the way, while you're doing this, something else comes out of it that you want even more.

• 20:21Speaker 05

  Because trying to manifest something does not guarantee you'll get exactly what you're hoping for. But as they say, shoot for the moon, land among the stars.

• 20:31Speaker 02

  So we have to know the purpose and the why. Then our brain starts unlocking, you know, the path forward and we took it. And either we continue going down that path or it opens new paths for us.

• 20:42Speaker 05

  Right, such that when we look back, you know, 10 years from now, we'll be like, the universe conspired.

• 20:47Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 20:48Speaker 05

  We manifested this, right? But optimism isn't just a practice for the future. Seeing the upside is plenty beneficial in the present moment, albeit sometimes equally hard to find. Our last takeaway, number five. Set yourself up for success on a daily basis with optimistic rituals. Maybe that means taking time to celebrate small wins at the end of each day.

• 21:11Speaker 02

  I make something every night and I, it's called a to-do list instead of a to-do list. I write down everything that I accomplish and I did. That's what I see before I go to bed. And it is so helpful, and I also do this with my children. Because when I go to bed, I want to feel a sense of purpose and like a win. That's how I go to sleep. And the smaller the better. I mean, there are things on my list that are like, I drank water today.

• 21:36Speaker 05

  Maybe a morning dance party is more your style. That's another tip from Deepika's playbook. Or maybe it's enough for you just to set stricter boundaries around when you allow yourself to sit with your woes. It'd be great if you didn't have any, of course, but...

• 21:51Speaker 02

  We are going to worry. Worry is part of our existence. And so one thing that I do that is really helpful is I actually schedule worry time into my day.

• 22:01Speaker 05

  Remember, for better and worse, nothing is forever. Do what you can, when you can, give yourself some grace.

• 22:09Speaker 02

  Just being able to show up and engage in life without the pressure of perfection. And with the idea that we are going to make mistakes. And again, none of us are immune to struggle. But how we are sort of navigating and what tools we have at our disposal and we are equipped with to walk through these moments are important for us and people around us.

• 22:35Speaker 05

  Deepika Chopra, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you for your optimism.

• 22:40Speaker 02

  Thank you for having me.

• 22:43Speaker 05

  Things are looking up. Let's recap why. Takeaway one, optimism can be a powerful vehicle for positive change. We can all train to be more optimistic by conditioning our future-minded brains to be more curious, resilient, and see the bad times as temporary. Takeaway two, sensory-based visualization can help direct your attention to desirable outcomes and expand your belief in what is possible. Takeaway three, the stories we tell ourselves and the people around us can have a big impact. So be careful and deliberate with the words you use. Reinforce your optimistic outlook with specific personal affirmations and language that leave room for growth and change. Takeaway four: evidence-based manifestation puts your optimism into action.

• 23:28Speaker 05

  If you have your sights set on a goal, visualize and affirm the belief you can achieve it. Then go do the work. Takeaway five: set yourself up for success by building opportunities for optimism into your daily schedule. Make a habit of a morning dance party. Schedule worry time right out of Da'lis before bed, or just express some gratitude to someone somewhere in your day. I'm sure it's not that hard to find an opportunity.

• 23:53Marielle Segarra?

  That was Life Kit reporter Andy Tagle. And that's our show. Hey, one last thing. Would you consider rating and reviewing Life Kit in your podcast app? It helps grow the show and spread the word. Here's a review I liked from a listener called Frank Lee. "Sometimes I think y'all are reading my mind or filming me for ideas. Every day on Life Kit is like everything I'm thinking recently. LOL, I love y'all." I love y'all too. Be like Frank. Help us spread the word about Life Kit. Leave us a review in your podcast app right now. This episode of Life Kit was produced by Sylvie Douglas and Mika Ellison. Our digital editor is Malika Garib. Megan Kane is our senior supervising editor, and Beth Donovan is our executive producer.

• 24:37Marielle Segarra?

  Our production team also includes Claire Marie Schneider and Margaret Serino. Engineering support comes from Tiffany Vera Castro. Fact checking by William Chase and Barclay Walsh. I'm Marielle Segarra. Thanks for listening.

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