556 - The Halloween Special

This week, Georgia covers the Salem Witch Trials and Karen tells the story of the Bell Witch haunting. For our sources, please visit https://www.myfavoritemurder.com/episodes. Support this podcast by shopping our latest sponsor deals and promotions at this link: https://bit.ly/3UFCn1g. Head to social media to share your favorite moments from this episode. Instagram: instagram.com/myfavoritemurder http://instagram.com/myfavoritemurder Facebook: facebook.com/myfavoritemurder http://facebook.com/myfavoritemurder TikTok: tiktok.com/@my_favorite_murder http://tiktok.com/@my_favorite_murder Send your hometown stories to [email protected]. Join the Fan Cult to access ad-free episodes of My Favorite Murder. Members also receive merch store discounts, exclusive audio and video content and more! Visit www.fancult.supercast.com http://www.fancult.supercast.com/ to join. Shop for My Favorite Murder and other Exactly Right merchandise here:www.exactlyrightstore.com https://www.exactlyrightstore.com. Rate, review and follow My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you like to listen. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This is Exactly Right.

• 0:06Speaker 01

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• 0:34Speaker 02

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• 1:04Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm Lacey Mosley, author, actor, stand-up comedian, creator, and host of Scam Goddess Podcast, the true crime comedy podcast, all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it. Each week, I bring on an amazing guest.

• 1:16Speaker 04

  Ooh, I scammed them.

• 1:17Georgia Hardstark?

  What?

• 1:17Speaker 04

  I could talk to you for an hour.

• 1:19Georgia Hardstark?

  You're a generational yapper, like me. That's why I had to make yapping a job. And now you can catch full episodes of my show on YouTube. Start listening to Scam Goddess on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Hello.

• 1:53Karen Kilgariff?

  And welcome.

• 1:54Georgia Hardstark?

  To My Favorite Murder.

• 1:55Karen Kilgariff?

  That's true.

• 1:58Georgia Hardstark?

  That's Karen Kilker.

• 2:00Karen Kilgariff?

  And it's Halloween.

• 2:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Spooky Halloween.

• 2:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Candy. Yay. Okay, let's get the lights up.

• 2:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Guys, wow, it's a pretty bright light. Pretty bright lights on this show.

• 2:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Um, it's Halloween. So excited for you and us.

• 2:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, especially us. We got to walk in here, the big surprise. They had these beautiful, I mean, when's the last time you had a Halloween bucket?

• 2:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Of my own?

• 2:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 2:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Not since I was a child.

• 2:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, look at these. Someone did the work. Someone figured out what we love.

• 2:34Georgia Hardstark?

  These are, let's see, Turkish taffy Razzles?

• 2:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Fucking Razzles are...

• 2:40Georgia Hardstark?

  I've never had a Razzle.

• 2:41Karen Kilgariff?

  They're candy and they're gum. You're gonna wanna spit it out after about four minutes.

• 2:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Look at these giant Smarties.

• 2:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Those are gonna be good. Have you ever had a slowpoke, which is just a big piece of caramel?

• 2:51Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 2:52Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, the people in the 50s, listen.

• 2:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Sugar babies, break your fucking teeth.

• 2:57Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm anti-Make America Great Again, but it was pretty great when kids could smoke candy cigarettes. Remember?

• 3:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, yeah, we loved them.

• 3:05Karen Kilgariff?

  We loved them.

• 3:06Georgia Hardstark?

  There was like, you don't know children, there was powder on them, so it looked like you were blowing smoke.

• 3:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Now, here's the thing about these, these days, is that now they look like

• 3:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Please.

• 3:18Karen Kilgariff?

  joints, don't they?

• 3:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 3:22Karen Kilgariff?

  That's a little...

• 3:24Georgia Hardstark?

  You look very sophisticated.

• 3:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Girl.

• 3:26Georgia Hardstark?

  With that gum in your mouth.

• 3:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, no. That's the look. That's right.

• 3:33Georgia Hardstark?

  I love it. Zots.

• 3:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, those are good. They're fizzy.

• 3:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 3:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Those are the precursor of Pop Rocks.

• 3:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Yum.

• 3:41Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, this is like, it's, it's a candy lover's dream in here.

• 3:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 3:45Karen Kilgariff?

  We talk for a living. That alone.

• 3:49Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm gonna mainline.

• 3:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Right?

• 3:50Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm gonna mainline a pixie stick right now.

• 3:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Please do it.

• 3:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Let's see how, how good my performance is.

• 3:54Karen Kilgariff?

  I might eat some dots, although they're gonna get stuck in my teeth.

• 3:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Let's see if this is a plus or a... Yeah, girl.

• 4:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Hit that.

• 4:02Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right.

• 4:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Mmm, cherry flavor. Hit that pixie stick.

• 4:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Mm-hmm.

• 4:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Woo.

• 4:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Mmm. Mm-hmm.

• 4:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Really get ya.

• 4:11Karen Kilgariff?

  That's a nice, you let it pile up on your tongue, and then you smash it down?

• 4:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Definitely. All right, let's, can we take these down, or I'm gonna just keep eating?

• 4:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, okay.

• 4:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Or do you wanna leave it?

• 4:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, how about right there? As a kind of foreground decor.

• 4:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Speaking of spooky, when we left the office on Monday, it's getting dark earlier, so it was like dark, dusky, but not totally, and I see, not hear, a swoop out in the back in the parking lot.

• 4:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Owl?

• 4:37Georgia Hardstark?

  It's a fucking owl.

• 4:39Karen Kilgariff?

  What color?

• 4:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Brown, I don't know.

• 4:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, just like a regular?

• 4:41Georgia Hardstark?

  But it was the first owl I've ever seen in LA.

• 4:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, shit.

• 4:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, and I like gave it a little, you know, and it like did a look at me, and then immediately, the staircase came to mind, and I was like...

• 4:51Karen Kilgariff?

  What are you fucking doing?

• 4:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Get in your car.

• 4:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Get in your car. You know, it's funny, Blossom and I can hear an owl, like, out at night?

• 4:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 4:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Or have, in the last month, very loud and very distinct.

• 5:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, cuz you live near some, like, you know...

• 5:06Karen Kilgariff?

  We got some trees.

• 5:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 5:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Which is, I feel very lucky for in Los Angeles. There's only five, and I have three.

• 5:12Georgia Hardstark?

  I have trees, and then immediately, a freeway.

• 5:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 5:15Georgia Hardstark?

  That's like, kind of...

• 5:16Karen Kilgariff?

  That's, my, my trees kind of open up onto the freeway. So it's what it's like here, but...

• 5:21Georgia Hardstark?

  My trees are covered in freeway dust. That's like what you get, kind of, you know?

• 5:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, I was gonna tell you, I know that every year, you get really into your costume, usually a couple's costume.

• 5:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 5:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Are you gonna reveal what it is?

• 5:34Georgia Hardstark?

  I suggested to Vince, Rambo, First Blood. I have Rambo in the forest, and he is...

• 5:41Karen Kilgariff?

  The sheriff.

• 5:41Georgia Hardstark?

  The sheriff, and you know, and I'm, and he's all beat up and everything, and I'm Rambo, cuz like, kinda perfect.

• 5:47Karen Kilgariff?

  It is perfect.

• 5:48Georgia Hardstark?

  But we don't, I don't know, we haven't gotten dressed up in a while, because we just stay at home and pass out candy to a thousand children.

• 5:52Karen Kilgariff?

  But don't you dress up for the children?

• 5:54Georgia Hardstark?

  I put festive stuff on.

• 5:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 5:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Vince doesn't care.

• 5:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Vince is like...

• 6:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, he has a Halloween.

• 6:01Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm trying to name a band that he would like, and I don't think I can. Dave Matthews.

• 6:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Chatpile or something, he'll put on, like, you know, spooky punk rock shirt, that's it.

• 6:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Fire hose, there. It only took me seven minutes. Well, I was gonna show you, this is what my costume is gonna be this year.

• 6:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God, that, how, you are an employee at Spirit Halloween.

• 6:25Karen Kilgariff?

  This is the, yeah, for the listener, I'm just putting a nice, big Spirit Halloween pin on my shirt.

• 6:30Georgia Hardstark?

  And I love that it has the sticker that says your name, but it's clearly covered up all the employees that have worked there in the past. It's not new.

• 6:37Karen Kilgariff?

  This pin is haunted, for sure.

• 6:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Definitely.

• 6:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 6:40Georgia Hardstark?

  That pin has seen some shit.

• 6:41Karen Kilgariff?

  This is for busy moms on the go, uncreative people who don't like thinking, or just people like me are a little bit checked out.

• 6:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, but like, the black t-shirt, it's perfect.

• 6:51Karen Kilgariff?

  All you need.

• 6:52Georgia Hardstark?

  You look like you're going to work, and then afterwards, you're going to your second job, bartending.

• 6:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, that's right, or your second job, the late shift at Starbucks, or whatever.

• 7:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Good job, I like it.

• 7:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Everybody. I guess I shouldn't do a Spirit Halloween commercial.

• 7:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Everyone loves them, I think.

• 7:05Karen Kilgariff?

  I think people have embraced what they seem to symbolize.

• 7:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 7:09Karen Kilgariff?

  It's like, they're like hermit crabs that go into the empty shells of, like, old marshals.

• 7:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally. Only. It's like, the whole world is gonna be a Spirit Halloween pretty soon.

• 7:20Karen Kilgariff?

  We're all gonna have these. We're all gonna have our names on them.

• 7:23Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right. Okay, we have a podcast network, it's called Exactly Right Media. Here are some highlights.

• 7:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Our very own Kate Winkler-Dawson has a new audiobook that's out right now. It's called Blood on the Page, and it tells the story of the infamous Ratcliffe Highway murders and the lasting mark they left on literature and also on law enforcement history. And guess who reads that book?

• 7:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Paul Holes.

• 7:44Karen Kilgariff?

  It's actually Kate Winkler-Dawson herself.

• 7:47Georgia Hardstark?

  If you want even more MFM, join the Fan Cult. You'll get every episode ad-free, merch store discounts, exclusive content, and access to our Discord, where you can chat with fellow murderinos. Head to fancult.supercast.com to join.

• 8:01Karen Kilgariff?

  And both Buried Bones and Disgrace Land are going to be taking true crime to the high seas. They're going on Virgin Voyages this March. Booking for the True Crime Voyage is open now on Virgin Voyages' website.

• 8:14Georgia Hardstark?

  That's gonna be debauchery.

• 8:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, it's gonna be so fun.

• 8:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 8:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 8:18Georgia Hardstark?

  And in the merch corner, spooky season is in full swing, and there's still time to grab your Stay Out of the Forest Raglan.

• 8:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, look at, it's perfect for spooky Halloween.

• 8:27Georgia Hardstark?

  That is so spooky and good, I love it. Go to exactlyrightstore.com to get yours.

• 8:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Also, if you're listening to this podcast, just a quick reminder, you can watch it on Netflix. My Favorite Murder and Buried Bones are on Netflix every week, so go and check out the visual version of this mayhem.

• 8:45Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right. Lot of energy and efforts put into it, so why not take a look?

• 8:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Why not take a little peeky-boo? Well, we have a very fun surprise for ourselves.

• 8:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 8:54Karen Kilgariff?

  This is the gift we give to ourselves, but actually that Nick Terry gives us.

• 8:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. This is the brand-new MFM animated by Nick Terry, and I haven't seen it yet, it's called Were Pig.

• 9:05Karen Kilgariff?

  I haven't seen it either.

• 9:06Georgia Hardstark?

  This should be fun.

• 9:07Karen Kilgariff?

  It's a big surprise.

• 9:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Here we go.

• 9:09Karen Kilgariff?

  I grew up on a farm, we just get right into it, there's not even a hello.

• 9:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Good.

• 9:13Karen Kilgariff?

  I grew up on a farm in rural North Georgia. Think big pastures broken up by dense forests of pine trees. Well, during the summer and after school most days, my eight cousins and I would be kept by my sweet grandmother, who instead of having eight elementary school children in her house from 2:30 to 8:00 PM, would kick us out to play outside. Because she couldn't keep a close eye on us, she called in the help of the werepig. The werepig was a werewolf-like pig that lived in the woods and would watch us to make sure that we were being good, and if we were bad, would eat us, just like he did the neighbor kid.

• 9:50Georgia Hardstark?

  A threat with an imaginary, like, beast.

• 9:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Crypto, crypto, yeah, cryptoid.

• 9:57Georgia Hardstark?

  That's killed before.

• 9:58Karen Kilgariff?

  That's killed children before. And then it says, "This might sound bad, but what's worse is all of our parents, my five uncles and my dad, adopted the werepig to do their bidding."

• 10:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 10:08Karen Kilgariff?

  The whole family's in on it. When we were in our early teens, one of my uncles actually dressed up like the werepig and scared the shit out of us while we were playing flashlight tag in the woods.

• 10:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 10:18Karen Kilgariff?

  I would pay a lot for that video. Screaming, the screaming, and then the crying, and then the, oh, come on. Needless to say, we were all traumatized by the werepig and kept a close eye on the woods. Years later, we were all joking at a family dinner and found out that our grandmother and our parents had a family meeting to discuss what to do about our behavior when we were kids, thus the werepig was born.

• 10:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 10:40Karen Kilgariff?

  That's how bad they were.

• 10:41Georgia Hardstark?

  It's like a cult, kind of.

• 10:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Here's the agreed line, tell the children.

• 10:46Georgia Hardstark?

  It sounds like it works.

• 10:47Karen Kilgariff?

  I think so. And it says, "Stay sexy and watch out for the werepig, Maddie."

• 10:54Karen Kilgariff?

  And also, it's a pig that's watching you.

• 10:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Amazing.

• 10:57Karen Kilgariff?

  I fucking love Nick Terry.

• 10:58Georgia Hardstark?

  I know.

• 10:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Because Nick Terry allows me to love us.

• 11:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 11:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Right?

• 11:02Georgia Hardstark?

  And you never know what dumb shit you say is gonna become a classic MFM animated.

• 11:07Karen Kilgariff?

  And also, the way you said "good" when I was like, "There's no intro," you're "good." It made me laugh so much.

• 11:14Georgia Hardstark?

  It made me realize we talk really fast.

• 11:17Karen Kilgariff?

  We talk a lot, really fast.

• 11:20Georgia Hardstark?

  It's a podcast.

• 11:21Karen Kilgariff?

  And we're funny.

• 11:22Georgia Hardstark?

  We're so funny.

• 11:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Goddamn.

• 11:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Good job.

• 11:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Thank you. Good job to you, too.

• 11:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you.

• 11:27Karen Kilgariff?

  And good job to our favorite.

• 11:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Nick Terry. Go to MFM Animated on Instagram, and then on the Exactly Right Media YouTube page, you can see all of the

• 11:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 11:38Georgia Hardstark?

  classic MFM animated. My dad loves them.

• 11:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Does he?

• 11:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 11:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Did he get into them?

• 11:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 11:43Karen Kilgariff?

  It's a good way to get, if your parents are like, "We don't understand

• 11:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 11:48Karen Kilgariff?

  you or your true crime," be like, "Hey, do you wanna watch this video?"

• 11:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 11:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Having nothing to do with anything else in the world, you sell them on our personalities. You sell them on our fast talking.

• 11:58Georgia Hardstark?

  It's like, "Hey, kid, do you want some candy?"

• 11:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Mm-hmm.

• 12:00Georgia Hardstark?

  And then you give them drugs.

• 12:01Karen Kilgariff?

  And then you go-

• 12:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Then you give them cigarettes.

• 12:03Karen Kilgariff?

  There's razor blades in there. And now you're over here with us.

• 12:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 12:08Karen Kilgariff?

  God.

• 12:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Great. Well, I'm first, right?

• 12:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Happy Halloween!

• 12:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Happy Halloween!

• 12:18Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm first.

• 12:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Great.

• 12:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Let me put my magic, my meta glasses on.

• 12:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, are you filming me right now? I'll sue you.

• 12:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Good. For Halloween, you know a story we've never done?

• 12:32Karen Kilgariff?

  The movie Halloween?

• 12:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Salem Witch Trials.

• 12:36Karen Kilgariff?

  The history version of the movie Halloween.

• 12:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Ally was very excited about covering this. Did she do a paper on it or something?

• 12:45Karen Kilgariff?

  That sounds right.

• 12:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay. Thanks, Molly. Ally Elkin, everybody, is very helpful in this. Today, we're gonna talk about America's most iconic Halloween town, a place now associated with ghost tours and fun spooky vibes, but which became famous because of a rash of paranoid accusations that would ultimately claim the lives of 26 people. This is the story of the Salem Witch Trials, the deadliest outbreak of witchcraft panic on American soil. The main source for the story is a book called A Storm of Witchcraft by Emerson Baker, and that's Ally Elkin, the smart researcher. That's her, that's her source. My main source

• 13:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh-oh.

• 13:23Georgia Hardstark?

  is Abigail's Divine Comedy web series, created, written, directed, and starred in by Joe Hedges as Abigail Williams. Have you seen this on TikTok at all?

• 13:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Probably, but like, it sounds familiar, but I'm not sure.

• 13:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Have you seen Abigail Williams with a mustache as a man?

• 13:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, yes, yes.

• 13:39Georgia Hardstark?

  That's Abigail's Divine Comedy, and I am so obsessed with it, I can't even-

• 13:44Karen Kilgariff?

  So good.

• 13:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Go look that up. The rest of the sources can be found in the show notes. So that's where I get my history from, is

• 13:50Karen Kilgariff?

  So good.

• 13:51Georgia Hardstark?

  comedy sketches.

• 13:52Karen Kilgariff?

  It's weird, because I know it's the season, and I, for one second, I'd just seen a TikTok kind of about summing up what that was all about.

• 14:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 14:01Karen Kilgariff?

  And I was like, "God, that, what a strange coincidence. I just saw that TikTok." It's October.

• 14:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, we love it.

• 14:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Of course.

• 14:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 14:07Karen Kilgariff?

  That's the theme. It's all around.

• 14:09Georgia Hardstark?

  So, the Salem Witch Trials happened in Europe at the same time. They would have barely registered as particularly notable. That's because between the 1400s and the 1700s, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of witch hunts all over Europe, many with higher death tolls than this one. There's a kind of corny documentary called The History of the Devil that talks about a lot of those, which is kind of cool. A lot of the classic things we associate with witch hunts, burning at the stake, the water test, were tied up witch will float but non-witch will sink and likely drown, are actually from European witch hunts and did not happen in Salem. But Salem does come toward the tail end of this witch hunt era, and it's the most notable instance of this in the colonies.

• 14:50Karen Kilgariff?

  An era that lasts 300 years.

• 14:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Jesus. So let's set the stage as briefly as possible. Salem is a coastal city 16 miles north of Boston, which is the capital of the Providence of Massachusetts Bay. This colony had only just been founded in 1691, a year before witchcraft accusations began in Salem. So, not a lot.

• 15:11Karen Kilgariff?

  It makes sense. It's like, everybody goes there, they live there for a year through all the seasons, and they're just like, "This is fucked."

• 15:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 15:19Karen Kilgariff?

  "The devil is among us."

• 15:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. This had already followed a years-long power vacuum period after King James II had revoked the charter for the original Massachusetts Bay colony. That original colony had been expressly Puritan, like you. Only Puritans had been allowed to vote, for example. The new Massachusetts Bay is chartered by William and Mary, Protestant co-rulers of England during a weird time, says Ally, and includes a huge chunk of New England and Canada. It puts the region on a much tighter leash, having it be ruled by a governor appointed by England rather than being self-governing. It also expands voting rights to any property-owning Protestants.

• 16:02Georgia Hardstark?

  So the key takeaway is that this is a period of heightened anxiety for Puritans, whose old way of life is changing, who founded their colony to be a shining beacon of godliness, and who most fiercely believe that God already knows whether they're going to heaven, or if they will be damned to hell for eternity. Like, there's no doing better and getting into heaven, right?

• 16:22Karen Kilgariff?

  There's no play

• 16:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 16:23Karen Kilgariff?

  whatsoever.

• 16:24Georgia Hardstark?

  And also, like, this is hard to believe now, but like, Satan is real, and this, you know, very, like, an actual

• 16:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 16:32Georgia Hardstark?

  entity.

• 16:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Also, I think it's ironic, and I won't say much about this, because I don't know anything about it, but just the idea that the Puritans came to America, and they're like, "Finally, we get to be super Protestant amongst ourselves," or it's like, you were driven out because of religion, but suddenly you're like, "But religion's the answer here."

• 16:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, get these Native Americans out of here.

• 16:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. Let's murder, murder, murder.

• 16:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 16:54Karen Kilgariff?

  For God.

• 16:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Because we're gonna be in heaven no matter what, and that's what God wants.

• 16:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Or going straight to hell, no matter what.

• 17:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Right, right.

• 17:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Once you do that one big one.

• 17:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Either way, I bet they were boring to drink with.

• 17:04Karen Kilgariff?

  And the food was bad.

• 17:06Georgia Hardstark?

  So they are constantly examining themselves for reassurances that they are among the chosen, and the way they reassure themselves of this is by not sinning and keeping a watchful eye out for sinful behavior, and then I added, AKA buzzkills.

• 17:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Or also, AKA, you know, it's the old, "Don't think of a pink elephant."

• 17:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 17:23Karen Kilgariff?

  And then the only thing you can think of is a pink elephant, and now you're fucking your neighbor out in the woods, sorry to say.

• 17:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Those pink elephants will get you every time.

• 17:31Karen Kilgariff?

  They're so sexy.

• 17:32Georgia Hardstark?

  In January of 1692, Betty Parris, who is a nine-year-old, and her cousin, Abigail Williams, who is 11, begin exhibiting strange behaviors. Betty's father's a minister, the Reverend Samuel Parris, and Abigail's parents have died, so she lives with the family. Reverend Samuel Parris had become ordained about 12 years prior after several failed business ventures, and is known for his strict interpretations, even by Puritan standards.

• 17:59Karen Kilgariff?

  That's a bad fucking sign.

• 18:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Even they're like, "Bro, pump the brakes."

• 18:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Because that, in my personal theory, absolutely editorializing here, usually if people are super into the abusive part of religion,

• 18:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 18:11Karen Kilgariff?

  their pervs

• 18:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 18:13Karen Kilgariff?

  that are like-

• 18:13Georgia Hardstark?

  sadomasochistic.

• 18:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. And you know who they like to take it out on? Children.

• 18:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 18:18Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm gonna act like this the whole story.

• 18:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Good.

• 18:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Just lecturing you like you did it.

• 18:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Betty and Abigail start acting weird, as if they've been bitten or pinched. They contort in odd ways. This is generally described as them having fits. At first, Samuel and his wife Elizabeth are mainly worried that the girls are sick. This is, of course, hundreds of years before the availability of vaccines, and children die all the time of illnesses that are now preventable. So they're worried about that, and a few weeks later, the symptoms persist, and Samuel starts to suspect witchcraft. Boom, gotta be witchcraft.

• 18:52Karen Kilgariff?

  You know, there's about two or three things it could be.

• 18:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 18:54Karen Kilgariff?

  They're faking it.

• 18:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 18:56Karen Kilgariff?

  The devil's here.

• 18:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. And three.

• 18:58Karen Kilgariff?

  And three, it's a wheat allergy.

• 19:01Georgia Hardstark?

  He calls friends and other clergy over to examine the girls, and they also see these fits. In late February, Samuel and Elizabeth leave the house to attend a religious lecture, and while they're away, their neighbor, a woman named Mary Sibley, is watching the girls. And so the Parris family enslaves two workers, a married couple named Tituba and John. Mary instructs Tituba to make something called a witch cake. Get it ready for this. Which is meant to determine if the girls are being bewitched and by whom.

• 19:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 19:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Sounds like a great treat, right?

• 19:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 19:33Georgia Hardstark?

  A nice little sweet treat.

• 19:34Karen Kilgariff?

  It's going to be delicious.

• 19:35Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 19:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 19:36Georgia Hardstark?

  The way you make a witch cake is by taking samples of urine from the afflicted person, so in this case, both the girls, and mixing it into a loaf of rye bread, which you bake.

• 19:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Bad enough rye bread on its own.

• 19:49Georgia Hardstark?

  And then, this fucking dog is minding his own goddamn business in fucking Salem, and they feed the bread to the dog.

• 19:56Karen Kilgariff?

  To what?

• 19:57Georgia Hardstark?

  After the dog eats the bread, it's supposed to help reveal who the witch is, because after the dog eats the bread-

• 20:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Pins and needles over here.

• 20:06Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't know. I don't specifically know. The dog maybe is like interested in the person who's the witch.

• 20:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 20:14Georgia Hardstark?

  You know, which in this case is Tituba, probably because she feeds him. Who knows what? She's the only one who doesn't whip him constantly.

• 20:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, really. But then why does the pea have to be in the rye bread?

• 20:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Don't question urine.

• 20:26Karen Kilgariff?

  You're right. I'm so sorry.

• 20:27Georgia Hardstark?

  You're in luck. Don't ask me questions. So the girls end up accusing Tituba of bewitching them. Mary Sibley will ultimately be chastised for also using witchcraft, but the pea bread is seen as legitimate evidence. Always trust the pea bread.

• 20:44Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean.

• 20:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Is what they're thinking.

• 20:46Karen Kilgariff?

  It's who had the recipe and then who made that final decision? The religious people, I'm assuming?

• 20:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, right. At the same time this is happening, two other girls on opposite sides of the town start exhibiting symptoms. One is named Anne Putnam, and she's 12. And the other one is a 17-year-old girl named Elizabeth Hubbard. Both girls would have known about the first two girls' fits. It's not like it spontaneously fucking happened, right? Anne's father is one of Samuel Parris's close friends, and Elizabeth is a maid in the household of a doctor who is widely believed to have attended to Betty and Abigail, so it's already spreading. Anne and Elizabeth, without a witch cake, say they are haunted by specters. Anne says her specter has been sent by Sarah Good, who is very poor and prone to loud outbursts that often startle people. Elizabeth says that hers was sent

• 21:35Georgia Hardstark?

  by a woman named Sarah Osborne, and this Sarah was in very poor health, practically bedridden, but she had caused a scandal after the death of her husband by buying the contract of an indentured servant and marrying him.

• 21:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Hmm.

• 21:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Possibly because she could only get rights if she was a married woman. And so all three of the first accused are vulnerable women who are considered outcast in some way. Let's see what photos we have.

• 22:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Photos.

• 22:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Here's a close. Here's a selfie. Here's a photo of Anne Putnam. I mean, a drawing. You know what I mean?

• 22:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. A representation. Oh.

• 22:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Pointing. The comfortable pillow on her back. And then here's the Putnam house.

• 22:14Karen Kilgariff?

  You. You.

• 22:16Georgia Hardstark?

  That's a nice little clopper house.

• 22:18Karen Kilgariff?

  That's like a four-storyer.

• 22:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally. So on leap day of 1692, Anne Putnam's father, Thomas, travels from Salem Village, which is a few miles from the coast and where all of this has been happening, Salem Village, to Salem Town, which is the town center on the water, to file witchcraft complaints. I don't know how that's done. And by that afternoon, there are warrants out for the arrests of these three women. The next day, the whole town shows up for the legal proceedings in the town meeting house. Imagine the smell. All four afflicted girls describe their symptoms and their accusations. The two Sarahs deny being witches, deny everything, but then Tituba confesses to witchcraft, confirms that the other women

• 23:03Georgia Hardstark?

  are also witches, and says that there are actually nine witches in Salem who have made covenants with the devil. It's unclear why she does this, except for the fact that her captor, Samuel Parris, regularly beats her. So it's probably a coerced confession, and it means she isn't in trouble anymore.

• 23:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, like she got out by turning them in?

• 23:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, they're essentially like, admit it and tell us who else, like to everyone. Admit it and tell us who else is a witch, and you can get out. And so some people refuse to do that.

• 23:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Right. It's just interesting, the person with the absolute least agency in the entire situation is like, you know what? I got this. It was me.

• 23:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 23:40Karen Kilgariff?

  It was them.

• 23:41Georgia Hardstark?

  It's also believed that she genuinely cares about Betty, the child, and is concerned for her. It's often said that she entertained Betty and Abigail with fortune telling, but this is actually never proven. But there is also a practical reason to confess. Those who confess and who name other people are not executed. So if you're a true believer in the Puritan framework, you can't do this because you believe you would be first an outcast and then damned for eternity. So Tituba isn't a Puritan, so she isn't worried about saying that.

• 24:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Those rules.

• 24:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. But if you don't care so much about the Puritan framework, it's a good option. Over the course of the trials, more than 50 people will ultimately confess. So the three women are put in jail, and when this happens, most of the girls find that their symptoms alleviate. So the 12-year-old Anne Putnam, her symptoms don't go away, and she accuses four other people, including the four-year-old daughter of Sarah Good named Dorothy. Besides Dorothy, the small child of a mentally ill woman, the women Anne accuses in this round are not as vulnerable as the first three women who had been accused of witchcraft. So now the total stands at seven people accused. And remember, Tituba said that there are nine witches total, so everyone is like keeping their eyes peeled

• 24:56Georgia Hardstark?

  for whatever they happen to think witchcraft is.

• 24:59Karen Kilgariff?

  It sounds like anybody and everybody all around.

• 25:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. But then the accusations begin to come from all angles. Many, but not all of those afflicted by fits or other symptoms are younger women, but not all of them. Tituba's own husband, John, believes himself to be bewitched. So does a 40-year-old woman in a prominent family, and her family is part of the town's small Quaker minority, so she's not even totally locked within the same Puritan framework as everyone. And she still comes down with something.

• 25:27Karen Kilgariff?

  But it's like the concept of it is this catching idea.

• 25:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. And then you think of like mass hysteria as maybe part of, part of that.

• 25:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 25:35Georgia Hardstark?

  So a 71-year-old woman named Rebecca Nurse is accused, and this results in public outrage because she is known to be in particularly good standing with the church, is well-liked, well-respected, and is also not in great health. She's not flying around on a broom every fucking night, you know? You may remember her character, as well as John Proctor's, from the play The Crucible. John is brought into all of this when one of his young servants starts experiencing symptoms and starts leveling accusations at both him and his wife, Elizabeth. In The Crucible, he's traditionally viewed as the hero, although that's changed in recent years, as the one with all the integrity. It's true that as this goes on, he will be a vocal critic of the witch trials, but he also threatens to beat the living daylights

• 26:16Georgia Hardstark?

  out of his young servant. On multiple occasions, he proposes beating the people who are experiencing the fits.

• 26:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Listen, he only had a very small toolbox back then in Puritan America.

• 26:26Georgia Hardstark?

  That's true. Ultimately, after expressing all this disbelief, John is accused as well. And there's also a play now called John Proctor is the Villain, which was recently on Broadway. It's kind of cool.

• 26:36Karen Kilgariff?

  I want to see that.

• 26:37Georgia Hardstark?

  I know. So throughout the spring, more and more people are accused of witchcraft until 36 people have had charges filed against them.

• 26:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow.

• 26:45Georgia Hardstark?

  The jail's overflowing. Sarah Osborne, one of the first three women accused, dies in prison in May. It's freezing cold in there. Food and water is scarce. It's just really bad conditions, obviously. It's not like it is today in prison.

• 27:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Where it's so great.

• 27:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Luxury.

• 27:02Karen Kilgariff?

  You said in May, but then you're like, it's freezing in there?

• 27:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Maybe if you're a witch, it's always cold. Maybe it's also really hot. Oh, it's beautiful in May. Never, never mind. It's actually beautiful in May. Except those allergies.

• 27:16Karen Kilgariff?

  It's so gorgeous.

• 27:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Those seasonal allergies will get you.

• 27:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 27:20Georgia Hardstark?

  You know?

• 27:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Or the devil. Depends.

• 27:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. So the trials begin in June, and a woman named Bridget Bishop is the first to be tried. She had not been the first to be accused, but the prosecutor wanted to try her first because he believed the evidence against her was the strongest, so she was most likely to be convicted, which would then set a precedent for the rest of them.

• 27:40Karen Kilgariff?

  A what? A precedent of success?

• 27:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, essentially like, yeah.

• 27:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Let's keep it positive, everybody. We all want, everybody needs to win.

• 27:48Georgia Hardstark?

  One, two, three.

• 27:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Kill women.

• 27:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Kill women, stress. Yeah. She had previously been tried and acquitted for witchcraft about 12 years earlier. Girl can't catch a break. Bridget, like several other members of the accused, is elderly, poor, and considered by many to be quarrelsome.

• 28:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Mm-hmm.

• 28:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Put her to death.

• 28:06Karen Kilgariff?

  That's.

• 28:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Immediately. We'd be so fucked.

• 28:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Dead like upon birth, basically.

• 28:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Absolutely. The evidence presented against her includes a penchant.

• 28:15Karen Kilgariff?

  For wearing black.

• 28:17Georgia Hardstark?

  She's a witch.

• 28:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, I am. Yes, I am. Then I grab a big rock and jump into the river.

• 28:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.

• 28:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye.

• 28:24Georgia Hardstark?

  She drowns. Here's Bridget Bishop, a drawing of, that's spooky.

• 28:29Karen Kilgariff?

  I could pull that hat off, don't you think?

• 28:32Georgia Hardstark?

  I think you could.

• 28:33Karen Kilgariff?

  I think I could. I've got the cheeks for it.

• 28:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Bonnet. Then, huh. If you're gonna get it. Yeah.

• 28:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Why? Because it's down over my ears?

• 28:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Puffy in the back.

• 28:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Hmm.

• 28:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Little bow at the chin.

• 28:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Bring back bonnets. Isn't that what the trad wives are trying to do right now?

• 28:47Georgia Hardstark?

  God.

• 28:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Let's hope. Did you just sing Bring Back Bonnets, or did I?

• 28:51Georgia Hardstark?

  You did. I wouldn't, I am not a witch. Why would I sing that?

• 28:55Karen Kilgariff?

  I was going to compliment you on that song.

• 28:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 29:00Karen Kilgariff?

  I was looking at it and thinking of something else, but the song just came out separately, witchcraft style.

• 29:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Definitely. You're definitely a witch.

• 29:07Karen Kilgariff?

  I know.

• 29:08Georgia Hardstark?

  That's what I would say if I didn't want to be known as a witch.

• 29:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, that's a perfect cover.

• 29:14Georgia Hardstark?

  So, a few men who had been hired to do work in Bridget's home testified to finding a voodoo doll in her basement wall, though they do not show the doll at trial. Ten witnesses testify about strange behavior, and the women who are accusing Bridget testify that her specter, evil spirit, is harassing them during trial.

• 29:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, like in the courtroom?

• 29:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Ah, you know.

• 29:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Has he been sworn in?

• 29:38Georgia Hardstark?

  The witch?

• 29:39Karen Kilgariff?

  The specter?

• 29:40Georgia Hardstark?

  No, but have you seen the movie The Witch?

• 29:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, yeah.

• 29:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, like when the little kids are saying, "She's witching me," and she's just like, "Fucking quit it. You can't do that. It doesn't work that way."

• 29:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 29:50Georgia Hardstark?

  So annoying, children.

• 29:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Also, it's just like, they're out in the middle of fucking nowhere, and there's like a wolf on one side and 18 diseases on the other.

• 29:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 29:58Karen Kilgariff?

  It's just like, yeah, it's, it's her fault.

• 30:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 30:02Karen Kilgariff?

  That you're unhappy.

• 30:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Bridget is found guilty by a jury and sentenced to death by hanging, and this, just as the prosecutor had hoped, seems to set the tone. The court adjourns for 20 days after this execution in a rare moment of sensible behavior to take a beat and address how they should proceed with the many other cases.

• 30:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Hmm.

• 30:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Right? This is where the sensibility ends. A panel of Boston Puritan ministered, led by the most famous and influential one, Cotton Mather, put out a statement saying essentially, "Proceed with caution, but absolutely try anyone who has been accused of witchcraft." Like, go for it.

• 30:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 30:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Have some fun with it.

• 30:36Karen Kilgariff?

  We hear that the people over in Spain are doing great work with that inquisition.

• 30:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Just like, put a little American pizzazz in there.

• 30:43Karen Kilgariff?

  On that absolute mayhem.

• 30:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. October is the month when being scared is supposed to be fun.

• 30:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Terrified in a haunted house? Sure. Your actual house? Absolutely not.

• 30:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Feel safe in your home with SimpliSafe.

• 30:57Karen Kilgariff?

  SimpliSafe is designed to help stop intruders before they get inside.

• 31:00Georgia Hardstark?

  I recently got an alert from my camera outside that there is like, someone prowling around late at night, and of course, I got freaked out. I opened my camera, and it was a big spider dangling in front of the camera.

• 31:13Karen Kilgariff?

  No.

• 31:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Which was terrifying in itself, but such a relief. And I love that I know that it works. You know what I mean? Like, it's so much better a spider than an actual person, but I'll be prepared.

• 31:23Karen Kilgariff?

  All the answers are on your phone. You don't have to worry and sit there and wring your hands.

• 31:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Join the more than 6 million people who entrust SimpliSafe with their home security.

• 31:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Right now, save 60% off with professional monitoring when you visit simplisafe.com/fave.

• 31:37Georgia Hardstark?

  That's simplisafe.com/fav.

• 31:39Karen Kilgariff?

  And when you order, please write in "my favorite murder" in the checkout survey. It lets them know that we sent you, and it really helps support the show.

• 31:46Georgia Hardstark?

  SimpliSafe, ahead of crime in real time.

• 31:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye.

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• 32:52Georgia Hardstark?

  In July, five more women, including Sarah Good, from the first three accused, and Rebecca Nurse, the respected 71-year-old, are all tried, found guilty, and executed. John Proctor, who has been speaking out against the trials, is also indicted, along with his wife, Elizabeth. He is also related to Rebecca Nurse, as well as multiple other people who are or will be accused. John's main accuser, besides his servant, is an 11-year-old named Abigail Williams. Sarah Good's four-year-old daughter is ultimately released and is shuffled from household to household in town. She winds up living a pretty sad life and also suffers from mental illness like her mom. It's just awful. John and Elizabeth Proctor,

• 33:34Georgia Hardstark?

  along with others, are found guilty in August. Elizabeth's execution is delayed because she's pregnant, but John is hanged, along with four others, three men and one woman. Among these is also a man named George Burrows, who is actually a minister. Right before being hanged, he recites the Lord's Prayer, which is something a witch is not supposed to be able to do.

• 33:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Hmm.

• 33:54Georgia Hardstark?

  I can't do it.

• 33:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Wait, why didn't they all know that and start doing it?

• 33:58Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't know.

• 33:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name.

• 34:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 34:01Karen Kilgariff?

  If you go to church like, for three months, you'll know it by heart.

• 34:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Then I won't.

• 34:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Let's get it going.

• 34:07Georgia Hardstark?

  In September, 18 more people are indicted. Among them is Giles Corey, whose wife, Martha, had also been accused. Giles and Martha are both older and both have pasts that are considered unbecoming to Puritans. Martha had a child out of wedlock, who was possibly biracial. Before marrying Giles, Giles had in the past been accused of murdering a servant boy. So they're like, here's a great way to just get rid of these anarchists.

• 34:32Karen Kilgariff?

  God.

• 34:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. When Martha is tried, several of her accusers are in the audience. Martha simply says that there is nothing to the accusations, and they are just hysterical children. The accusers start mimicking Martha's movements, claiming she is controlling them. Martha, how do you fucking, how do you get them to?

• 34:50Karen Kilgariff?

  It's like, those little children are the ones possessed by the devil.

• 34:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 34:53Karen Kilgariff?

  That are just like, "You're doing it to me."

• 34:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Right, right. You're the witches.

• 34:57Karen Kilgariff?

  It's why so many horror movies are child-based.

• 35:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally. Martha is found guilty and hanged. Giles then refuses to undergo a trial, and he is punished with an antiquated form of torture, being pressed between boards with heavy stones on top. It takes him two days to die.

• 35:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, pressed between boards.

• 35:15Georgia Hardstark?

  No, or not.

• 35:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Please hold.

• 35:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 35:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Because there's also the thing where there's like, a big metal.

• 35:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Stretchy?

• 35:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Pig that they put you inside of and then put a fire underneath.

• 35:26Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't want fi- I don't want fire. I would do anything to avoid fire.

• 35:30Karen Kilgariff?

  That's a very witchy thing of you to say. Just saying. But what, stretched or pressed?

• 35:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Shit. Have you seen that, that quote that's like, "I bet that press does feel good for like, one second." There's just gotta be one second of that that's just like, "Ah."

• 35:47Karen Kilgariff?

  It's the same thing. Someone tweeted this long ago when The Revenant came out, which is, I know that scene was really horrible, but for one second when a bear attacks you, I bet it feels so good.

• 35:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Aww.

• 35:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Hugging a bear.

• 36:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Terrible.

• 36:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Awful.

• 36:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Terrible.

• 36:02Karen Kilgariff?

  How else do we process these past realities? This really fucking happened.

• 36:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Truly, truly. He's the only accused witch to die from something other than hanging or in prison awaiting trial. At the end of October, the governor of the Providence of Massachusetts Bay, remember, now appointed by England instead of chosen by the Puritans, steps in and dissolves the court that had been established to hear the cases, and instead instates a different court to hear the rest of the cases. These trials resume in January and February, so a year after the initial accusations. But of 56 remaining people who are indicted, only three are convicted, and they are pardoned by the governor in May. So if someone fucking steps in with some basic common sense.

• 36:45Karen Kilgariff?

  It's almost like they were like, "Oh, you know that thing that the Spaniards wouldn't stop doing for 300 years? It broke back out in the colonies. It broke out again."

• 36:55Georgia Hardstark?

  What are we, how do we, how do we spin this?

• 36:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Now, if we go straight at them, they're gonna be like, "No, no, no, we're right. Now you're from the devil."

• 37:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, totally.

• 37:02Karen Kilgariff?

  But come back around and act like we like it.

• 37:04Georgia Hardstark?

  We need a crisis PR manager immediately.

• 37:07Karen Kilgariff?

  And that's the person who invented jack-o'-lanterns.

• 37:11Georgia Hardstark?

  The people who got, who were canceling people, got canceled.

• 37:15Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right.

• 37:15Georgia Hardstark?

  And it's just a circle. It's a snake eating its own tail.

• 37:18Karen Kilgariff?

  This whole cancellation culture.

• 37:20Georgia Hardstark?

  You mean you hate waffles? Did you see that?

• 37:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Is that one of those things where you post something about loving pancakes?

• 37:26Georgia Hardstark?

  I love pancakes. Oh, so you hate wa- doesn't that mean you hate waffles?

• 37:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Or the person that's like, "I'm blind. I've never seen a pancake."

• 37:33Georgia Hardstark?

  What if you don't like beans? That's the favorite one. Okay. In the end, 19 people have been hanged, five died in custody, and Giles had been pressed to death. Ultimately, Tituba, who still hadn't been tried, is among those let out of prison. There is no record of her or her husband, John, in Salem after 1693.

• 37:51Karen Kilgariff?

  I bet.

• 37:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Because, goodbye.

• 37:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Bye there. Bye-bye. Thank you.

• 37:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Bye. Okay, let's talk about theories, takeaways. Historians still disagree on why this happened in the first place, and if there was a physiological cause for at least some of the symptoms experienced by the accusers. Some have posited that it may have been ergot poisoning, remember, which we've talked about before, which has come up in the case of the dancing plague of 1518, as well as in another Halloween episode when you covered the Great Famine of 1315. Great job.

• 38:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Thank you.

• 38:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Ergot poisoning comes from a fungus that can grow on grain and can cause muscle spasms, delusions, and hallucinations. And this brings us to the myfavormurder@gmail account. Everyone who listens to this is related to someone that involved in this, by the way.

• 38:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Dr. Maureen Ergot, writing in from the Ergot Center.

• 38:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, this is a 2020 email.

• 38:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Shit.

• 38:44Georgia Hardstark?

  The title is, "Salem Historian Here," and this is after we've read the thing about ergot poisoning, or like, it being something, causing it.

• 38:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 38:52Georgia Hardstark?

  "Salem Historian Here, the magic mushroom theory is false. Sorry to be this asshole."

• 38:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Never, never.

• 38:59Georgia Hardstark?

  So I'm gonna just read you this part of it.

• 39:01Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm sorry to be this asshole.

• 39:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Hi, ladies, Stephen and pets. I'm a huge fan of the podcast and always look forward to the listener submissions. I hate to be this person, but I just listened to the story about the magic mushroom slash ergot poisoning theory of the Salem witch trials. And as a Salem witch trials historian in Massachusetts, I felt compelled and obligated to write in about this.

• 39:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Thank you.

• 39:23Georgia Hardstark?

  This is a theory that we who work in Salem have not only been hearing for decades, but been trying to squash since its inception. The most reputable Salem scholars who have dedicated their life's work are all in strong, all caps, agreement that this theory has no sound basis in evidence whatsoever and has long since been debunked. There are a multitude of reasons why it's not plausible, and I will list some of them, but feel free to cut the list portion out for time if you feel that's necessary. I did. And instead, just take my word. We do.

• 39:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay. I want to hear that list, though.

• 39:56Georgia Hardstark?

  And the word.

• 39:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Privately, in the fan call.

• 39:58Georgia Hardstark?

  It's everything we know. Yeah, right.

• 39:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 40:00Georgia Hardstark?

  And the word of everyone in Salem who studies and educates about the witch trials, that it is a myth. Again, so sorry to be the asshole. I just want to make sure that facts are always being spread whenever possible. Please forgive. Thank you for all you do. Stay sexy and read some great texts on the Salem witch trials. A.

• 40:19Karen Kilgariff?

  A, you weren't an asshole until that last night.

• 40:22Georgia Hardstark?

  We don't know how to read. So actually.

• 40:25Karen Kilgariff?

  This is just a talking podcast. But never apologize because thank you so much.

• 40:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, yeah, that's what this podcast, like, that's the legs of this podcast.

• 40:32Karen Kilgariff?

  We need you.

• 40:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 40:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, the rest of all the other audience is like, don't worry about it. Let them know.

• 40:38Georgia Hardstark?

  I think it's okay that everyone tells us when we're wrong because it's just women telling us when we're wrong.

• 40:42Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right.

• 40:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Not men mansplaining us.

• 40:44Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right.

• 40:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Barstool sportsing us, whatever. Okay, so other historians point to known grudges between the families that accused each other. This is what I believe. It is highly likely that some of the accusers, many of whom were young women, had been abused, perhaps some by the men whom they accused. People especially wondered this about John Proctor, who said some questionable things about his young servant who had accused him and his wife. He had outwardly mentioned beating her, but he made remarks that vaguely suggest sexual abuse as well. Others say that, like the dancing plague, this was an instance of mass psychogenic illness when incredibly stressful life circumstances manifest themselves in physical symptoms. This is the main working theory behind the dancing plague as well.

• 41:28Georgia Hardstark?

  It seems like for a lot of these people, there were land disputes and money disputes, and the greatest way to get rid of the next person in line to inherit something is to accuse them of being a witch.

• 41:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 41:38Georgia Hardstark?

  You know?

• 41:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, then they're just like, in a month or two, they'll be hanged.

• 41:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Exactly.

• 41:42Karen Kilgariff?

  And get that land to ourselves.

• 41:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Exactly. And if you don't do it first, they're gonna do it.

• 41:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 41:46Georgia Hardstark?

  In the years following the trials, many of the families of those found guilty pushed for exonerations. By 1694, most people in Salem are horrified by what has happened. Oops.

• 41:58Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, too late. Where were you?

• 42:01Georgia Hardstark?

  They all seemed to realize that a paranoia had taken hold and that they had sacrificed the rights and freedoms that were unique to Massachusetts for hysteria they no longer really believed in. Or if they believed something, it's that the devil had been at work, but this work, ironically, had been to turn the people of Salem against each other. Samuel Parris, whose daughter and niece were the first to complain of witchcraft, complain of witchcraft. I can't go to school today. I have witchcraft.

• 42:27Karen Kilgariff?

  I've been bitching about witchcraft all week.

• 42:29Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right. My witchcraft is coming on real strong this month. Formally apologizes for his role in the trials just a year later.

• 42:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Bro.

• 42:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Saying Satan had deluded him.

• 42:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Can you stop bringing, if you feel so strongly about it?

• 42:45Georgia Hardstark?

  It's possible he does this because of genuine contrition, but it's also likely that he does this because his congregation is deeply angry at him and he's in danger of being fired. Ultimately, he is pressured to resign a few years later. Today, Salem is home to a booming tourism industry. Have you been?

• 43:02Karen Kilgariff?

  I never have. I really want to.

• 43:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Same. Including at least 10 different crystal shops.

• 43:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 43:07Georgia Hardstark?

  And a very moving monument to those who were killed. Right off the main drag, there are a series of 20 granite benches protruding from an old stone wall, each inscribed with the name of a person who was executed. And that is the story of the Salem witch trials, the deadliest outbreak of witchcraft panic on American soil. And we never have to talk about it again.

• 43:29Karen Kilgariff?

  And now, stop bringing it up. That was awesome.

• 43:33Georgia Hardstark?

  I can't believe we haven't done that in 10 and a half, 11 almost years.

• 43:36Karen Kilgariff?

  I know. We were by ourselves for a long time. We were very alone. That is crazy. And so the TikTok I just saw that I really loved was this guy talking about how there are these theories that kind of like the overseers, leaders, royalty, whoever is in charge, usually a lot of men, understood that if you go in and start killing women in a community, it divides the community and then you can control them better. You can keep, you know, people don't get together and all say, we won't work for your low rate. Blah, blah, blah, the different things, which I just thought was kind of interesting. And often it's like, yeah, those women are the outsiders, but they're the ones who know medicine.

• 44:18Karen Kilgariff?

  They're the ones you go to when something happens and they have answers.

• 44:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 44:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Like disempowering, you know, I'm sure there are enslaved people who are like, oh, put this poultice on here and it heals in a week because it's actually aloe vera, a thing no one knows what it is.

• 44:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Or the, the women who are like living outside of the men's rules. Let's like set an example and show women what happens when you do that.

• 44:41Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right.

• 44:42Georgia Hardstark?

  By punishing them. So don't even try it.

• 44:44Karen Kilgariff?

  But you're filled with the devil if you somehow just want an apartment and a boyfriend.

• 44:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Just a studio apartment, you know, and a fuck boy.

• 44:52Karen Kilgariff?

  A fuck boy.

• 44:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Or two.

• 44:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Or two, or a fuck girl, or just to have people out of your fucking business. All those things are not allowed. Get back into the kitchen.

• 45:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. All right.

• 45:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, if you're from Salem and you have anything to say about those theories, we'd love to discuss further.

• 45:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 45:08Karen Kilgariff?

  I love, that was great.

• 45:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you. October is the month when being scared is supposed to be fun.

• 45:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Terrified in a haunted house? Sure. Your actual house? Absolutely not.

• 45:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Feel safe in your home with Simply Safe.

• 45:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Simply Safe is designed to help stop intruders before they get inside.

• 45:24Georgia Hardstark?

  I recently got an alert from my camera outside that there is like someone prowling around late at night. And of course, I got freaked out. I opened my camera and it was a big spider dangling in front of the camera. Which was terrifying in itself, but such a relief. And I love that I know that it works. You know what I mean? Like, it's so much better a spider than an actual person, but I'll be prepared.

• 45:47Karen Kilgariff?

  All the answers are on your phone. You don't have to worry and sit there and wring your hands.

• 45:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Join the more than 6 million people who entrust Simply Safe with their home security.

• 45:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Right now, save 60% off with professional monitoring when you visit simplysafe.com/fav.

• 46:01Georgia Hardstark?

  That's simplysafe.com/fav.

• 46:03Karen Kilgariff?

  And when you order, please write in my favorite murder in the checkout survey. It lets them know that we sent you and it really helps support the show.

• 46:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Simply Safe, ahead of crime in real time. Goodbye.

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• 47:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay. Are you ready for my story?

• 47:18Georgia Hardstark?

  I am absolutely ready for your Halloween story.

• 47:20Karen Kilgariff?

  I now realize that our researchers, Maren and Ally, and our producer Molly, they get up to it when they plan these out.

• 47:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 47:29Karen Kilgariff?

  And I really appreciate it. Because as you were talking, I was just like, hmm, hmm.

• 47:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh oh, you're doing the Salem witch trials?

• 47:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, I'm gonna redo it. And I'm gonna do it louder. No, today I'm gonna tell you about a legendary ghost story from the late 1810s.

• 47:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Ooh.

• 47:44Karen Kilgariff?

  It takes place in the rolling hills of north central Tennessee at the Kentucky border. The small town of Adams is about an hour drive from Nashville. Back in the 1810s, there wasn't much there aside from one lone church and a handful of family farms cut into the wilderness. So that it wasn't called Adams, it was just this area. But it's where Adams is now. One of those farms is owned by a man in his 60s named John Bell. John is originally from North Carolina. He moved to Tennessee about 10 years earlier after a series of bad harvests. He and his wife Lucy and all of their children, there will eventually be nine children, moved to the area to start over.

• 48:27Karen Kilgariff?

  And they bring several enslaved laborers, which is what happened at the time. On the backs of those men and women, John's new 320-acre Tennessee farm becomes prosperous. And so, of course, then he becomes known to his neighbors and in this community, and his success earns their respect. And then one afternoon in 1817, while John is looking out over his farmland, and look at everything I built but didn't actually work on, he sees a strange animal sitting in his cornfield. He can't really tell. He thinks it must be some sort of a dog, except that it's very large. And the more he looks at it, he sees that this creature has the head of a rabbit.

• 49:12Karen Kilgariff?

  So he pulls out his gun and fires. He's sure that he hit this animal, but the creature doesn't seem phased at all. And it just gets up on its feet and then just scampers out of the corn.

• 49:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Easter bunny?

• 49:26Karen Kilgariff?

  No.

• 49:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 49:27Karen Kilgariff?

  The devil bunny.

• 49:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh.

• 49:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Not long after, one of John's teenage sons, Drew, is walking near the house on the farm, when in the distance, he thinks he sees a wild turkey sitting on a fence. It's hard to tell, though, because it's far enough away that he's like, not sure. So he runs inside the house to grab his gun. Why it wasn't strapped to Drew's back, I don't know. But when he runs back out to shoot it, before he can fire, the creature spreads an enormous set of wings, and its massive body rises into the sky and flies off. It was way too big to be a turkey. Drew has no idea what it actually was. Then, John's youngest daughter, Betsy, who's 12 years old, is walking around on the farm

• 50:11Karen Kilgariff?

  when she sees something green dangling from the limb of a nearby oak tree. She walks toward it to get a closer look, what could be green and hanging from this tree. When she gets close enough, she sees it's a little girl in a green dress hanging from a noose. Betsy runs into the house to get help. But when she brings everybody else from her family back outside, there is nothing in the tree, and the limb looks untouched, like nothing was ever there.

• 50:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, creepy.

• 50:40Karen Kilgariff?

  After this, the weird encounters stop. So the family just writes it all off as a series of strange coincidences. But it turns out, this is just a lull, because what happens next is known as one of the most famous hauntings in American history. This is the story of the legend of Tennessee's Bell Witch.

• 50:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, I don't know this at all.

• 50:59Karen Kilgariff?

  You don't?

• 51:00Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 51:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, there is a movie starring Donald Sutherland, and I can't remember who else, about this. And the part where Donald Sutherland looks off his porch and sees the fucking rabbit scared me in a way where I was like, oh, that was some sort of psychological thing that I don't know what. It's like a giant hair, but it's just looking at him, and it's

• 51:21Georgia Hardstark?

  So creepy.

• 51:22Karen Kilgariff?

  The creepiest thing ever.

• 51:24Georgia Hardstark?

  What's the movie? It's called The Bell Witch?

• 51:26Karen Kilgariff?

  The movie is called An American

• 51:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Haunting.

• 51:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Haunting.

• 51:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, okay, I've heard that.

• 51:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, yeah. It's great. Okay, so, the sources for today's story, and the first and main source, is The Authenticated History of the Famous Bell Witch by Martin Van Buren Ingram. And Bell Witch heads, this is what Maren wrote, "Bell Witch heads know it as, quote, 'The Red Book,' because it has a bright red cover. It was published in 1894, and it's basically the backbone for the modern Bell Witch story." Maren also references 2023's The Bell Witch in Myth and Memory by Rick Gregory. That author is decidedly skeptical of the Red Book's version of events. Then, there's a PBS series called Monstrum, which now I want to watch. PBS's take on this kind of strikes a happy medium between the two.

• 52:14Karen Kilgariff?

  And the rest of the sources are in the show notes. So, first, we can just take a look at where in Tennessee this is taking place.

• 52:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, I've gotta know.

• 52:22Karen Kilgariff?

  You love maps?

• 52:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, I see.

• 52:24Karen Kilgariff?

  See, so we're up there.

• 52:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 52:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Get it?

• 52:27Georgia Hardstark?

  I see. Tennessee looks like a puzzle piece.

• 52:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 52:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 52:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Tennessee. Let's take a look at the cabin where they lived, just to give you another sense, of course, of a drawing.

• 52:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, it's kind of fancy.

• 52:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Right?

• 52:39Georgia Hardstark?

  It's big.

• 52:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Eleven people in there, ultimately.

• 52:42Georgia Hardstark?

  That's a lot.

• 52:43Karen Kilgariff?

  And, of course, because the farm is successful, they could afford to get all those extra logs for the second story. So, just when the Bells think that all of those creepy encounters are behind them, the knocks begin.

• 52:56Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 52:57Karen Kilgariff?

  They start getting knocks on the front door at night. But when they go to answer it, no one's there.

• 53:02Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't like this.

• 53:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Basically, it's like, John would rush outside to see who was there. No one's there. Then the knocks start coming from the outside. So it sounds like people are running around the house, knocking around the house on the outside.

• 53:16Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't like it.

• 53:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Again, John runs outside, no one's there. Then strange things start happening inside the house. One of John's sons, Richard Bell, documents these so-called disturbances, and basically, his recollections are written into The Red Book. It's firsthand, but it becomes like, a little bit telephone. But Richard started writing about it. And he describes a specific night where the Bell sons, they all share one bedroom, and they wake up to loud gnawing sounds.

• 53:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Gnawing?

• 53:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, like chewing gnawing sounds. They light a candle, thinking it's a rat, like chewing at their one of the bedposts. But the second that the candle's lit, the noise stops. Richard was around six or seven years old at the time. And he remembers that, quote, "When we would search for the rat in our room, the same noise would appear in Sister Betsy's chamber, disturbing her and arousing all the family." And so it continued, going from room to room, stopping when we are all up, and commencing again as soon as we returned to bed, and was so exceedingly annoying that no one could sleep.

• 54:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, that could be a rat in the wall.

• 54:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Could be a rat. In the coming days, weeks, and months, the Bell family experiences escalating harassment at the hands of something they cannot explain, understand, or see. And it's not just noises. The children are pinched and pushed over. They have their hair pulled at the scalp, and their bedding is yanked off in the night, which is a classic horror movie, like haunting thing, where it's like, ghosts have always been doing this since the 1800s. They love to yank your sheets. And then John suddenly develops a strange throat problem, which The Red Book describes as, quote, "Feeling like a small stick of wood was crosswise in his mouth, pressing out both cheeks."

• 55:07Georgia Hardstark?

  God.

• 55:07Karen Kilgariff?

  "This feeling comes and goes at random." Oh, sorry, that's the end of the quote, "both cheeks." "This feeling comes and goes at random, and it's so painful that John struggles to eat or speak."

• 55:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Fuck.

• 55:18Karen Kilgariff?

  So, that goes on for about a year. And no one outside the Bell household knows about it, because John has told them all, "Stay quiet. I've got a new reputation. I'm upstanding in this community." He knows going public would be lose-lose, because they either think he's crazy, or they would actually believe him.

• 55:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 55:36Karen Kilgariff?

  That's the scariest of all.

• 55:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 55:38Karen Kilgariff?

  So, it's the early 1800s in, you know, America. And that's a time when evangelical Christianity dominates American life, even more so than today. John Bell is an elder at his church. Many preachers of this time talk openly about ghosts and demons in their weekly sermons.

• 55:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 55:56Karen Kilgariff?

  And even though it's been about 125 years since the Salem witch trials, there are still plenty of people who believe in folk magic and witchcraft, especially in the rural South. Some might suspect that the family is cursed.

• 56:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 56:10Karen Kilgariff?

  So whatever people think, insanity, a ghost, demon, or a witch, this is the kind of juicy gossip that can fuel a small-town rumor mill in perpetuity. That's Maren's writing. Sometimes she'll put a sentence like that together, and I'm just like, yes.

• 56:25Georgia Hardstark?

  I've never heard you say perpetuity in all my life.

• 56:28Karen Kilgariff?

  I just simply, in perpetuity, will never say it. So, John doesn't want his family being gossiped about, obviously. But he reaches a breaking point with the stick-in-the-mouth issue. It's making his life hell. And then, not only is he under attack that way, his daughter Betsy is also under constant attack. Richard writes of Betsy, quote, "Her cheeks were frequently crimsoned as by a hard blow from an open hand, and her hair pulled until she would scream with pain." So about a year into this haunting, John finally confides in his reverend and close friend, James Johnston. Reverend Johnston agrees to spend the night at the Bell House to see for himself what's going on. Richard writes that, "Before bed, the reverend, quote, 'prayed fervently

• 57:10Karen Kilgariff?

  and very earnestly for our deliverance from the frightful disturbance, or that its origin, cause, and purpose might be revealed.'" And amen, everyone goes to bed. Richard writes, quote, "The disturbance commenced as usual."

• 57:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Good, because like, if someone came and stayed and nothing happened, it'd be so fucking annoying.

• 57:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, no. This demon's like, oh, the priest is here? It's wonderful, let me put on a little bit of lipstick. So, quote, "The disturbance commenced as usual, gnawing, scratching, knocking on the wall, overturning chairs, pulling the cover off beds, etc. Every act behind exhibited as if on purpose to show Mr. Johnston what could be done."

• 57:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Great.

• 57:49Karen Kilgariff?

  End quote. So, and this is my line, "The reverend is yea and verily freaked out." So, the next morning

• 57:56Georgia Hardstark?

  What? Do you know those words?

• 57:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Yea and verily is like a Bible thing that they, a reverend is always saying in like a play.

• 58:02Georgia Hardstark?

  I love it.

• 58:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Yea and verily, we go. And verily, so the next morning, he tells John that they need to tell the rest of the community about this. So later at church, Johnston announces that the devil and his demons have descended upon the Bell Farm. This is kind of like of that time.

• 58:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 58:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Where it's just, everything is ripe for the picking. Everything's like, get the community together so we can talk about this was, he was TikToking with that poor, poor community.

• 58:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 58:33Karen Kilgariff?

  But basically like, ladies and gentlemen, the devil's here. It's everything we've been thinking about all this time. Richard will write, quote, "All of our neighbors were invited and committees formed, experiments tried, and a close watch kept, in and out every night, but all of their wits were stifled, the demonstrations all while increasing in force," end quote. So getting everybody involved wasn't like that thing of like, no, it's not happening, or only when certain people. It's like, full display every time, no matter who's around. So word begins to spread across Tennessee, and among the many people who are said to experience the paranormal activity at the Bell Farm, one of those people is future President Andrew Jackson.

• 59:15Georgia Hardstark?

  No way. Andy.

• 59:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Andy.

• 59:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Love it.

• 59:19Karen Kilgariff?

  In the house. Bloody, bloody Andrew Jackson is here.

• 59:21Georgia Hardstark?

  AJ.

• 59:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Not the best, not the best guy. At the time, he's around 50. He's a respected general, and he's familiar with the Bell family because one of their older sons had served under his command in the 1815 Battle of New Orleans, just a couple of years before. Jackson lives in Nashville, so when he hears about this haunting, he decides to hitch up the wagon with some friends and go to the Bell Farm and see what all the fuss is about. When he arrives at the Bell Farm, his wagon comes to a strange and sudden stop as it rolls onto the property.

• 59:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Like a grocery cart that you're trying to get out of the parking lot?

• 59:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Exactly. Where it's like, uh! It's just stopping.

• 59:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Shit.

• 59:59Karen Kilgariff?

  But the wheels are horses. Jackson's horses pull with all their might, but the cart will not move.

• 1:00:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 1:00:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Jackson and his men inspect the carriage's wheels for any problems. There are none. Then Andrew Jackson and his group hear a disembodied voice mockingly call out, quote, "All right, general, let the wagon move on. I will see you again tonight," end quote.

• 1:00:22Georgia Hardstark?

  No, but no disembodied voices, please.

• 1:00:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, and I guess witnessed now, but this is the telephone of history, so who knows?

• 1:00:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Were telephones invented?

• 1:00:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, they, they were made of corn cobs.

• 1:00:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Tin cans.

• 1:00:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Didn't work at all, yeah. But essentially, this is the kind of thing where like, a disembodied voice speaks, and people talk about the disembodied voice speaking.

• 1:00:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Often.

• 1:00:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 1:00:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Which is next level for hauntings, you know, that we've heard of.

• 1:00:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Absolutely.

• 1:00:48Karen Kilgariff?

  So that night, Jackson and his party attempt to sleep in the Bell home, but they are subjected to the same poltergeist-like activity. It leaves Jackson so disturbed that the next morning, he says, quote, "I would rather fight the British again than have any more dealings with that torment," end quote.

• 1:01:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Damn.

• 1:01:07Karen Kilgariff?

  So.

• 1:01:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Huge diss.

• 1:01:09Karen Kilgariff?

  He's like, literal war is better than this, bye. Now, two big things that start happening as more people hear about the haunting at Bell Farm. One is other residents of the area begin to report their own experiences of paranormal activity, not only in their homes, but in town, even at church. And then the second thing is that the entity starts talking all the time.

• 1:01:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Ugh.

• 1:01:32Karen Kilgariff?

  To anyone in town.

• 1:01:33Georgia Hardstark?

  So it's a woman.

• 1:01:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Shut her up. It mocks people, well, it kind of is. It's the Bell Witch.

• 1:01:39Georgia Hardstark?

  All right.

• 1:01:40Karen Kilgariff?

  It mocks people indiscriminately. If it's feeling nice, it'll sing songs, or recite scripture, or repeat other pastors' sermons, word for word, from like, adjoining towns.

• 1:01:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Does it too? I'm not hitting you? Why are you hitting yourself? Why are you hitting yourself?

• 1:01:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Why are you hitting yourself?

• 1:01:57Georgia Hardstark?

  It just sounds really annoying.

• 1:01:57Karen Kilgariff?

  So fucking annoying. So the entity has become the entire community's problem at this point, but at the Bell Farm, John and his daughter Betsy are particularly abused by it. Betsy wakes up in the night feeling like she's been punched in the chest, or she finds burrs matted in her long hair. A piece of writing attributed to Betsy, and shared by the Bell's descendants years after the haunting, says, quote, so this is supposedly what Betsy wrote, quote, "When the spirit became so tantalizing, filling my mind with horror, and causing me to become so nervous, my parents often sent me to a neighbor's to rest for a night. My first night away from home was spent with Theeney Thorn." That's her best friend, Theeney Thorn.

• 1:02:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Cute!

• 1:02:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Theeney Thorn and Betsy Bell.

• 1:02:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Betsy Bell and Theeney Thorn?

• 1:02:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:02:45Georgia Hardstark?

  That's adorable.

• 1:02:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Called the devil into the...

• 1:02:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Called the devil into the...

• 1:02:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, so, "My first night away from home was spent with Theeney Thorn. When we retired, there came a loud knocking on our outside door."

• 1:02:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, no.

• 1:02:58Karen Kilgariff?

  "Which seemed to fly open, and a great gust of wind was felt. Theeney sprang up at once and lit a candle. To our surprise, the door was not open. Then a voice spoke softly," quote within the quote, "Betsy, you should have not come over here. You know I can follow you anywhere. Now get a good night's sleep."

• 1:03:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Theeney's like, we're not friends anymore.

• 1:03:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Theeney's like, "I don't know you. I'm so sorry to this man. I do not know this man."

• 1:03:23Georgia Hardstark?

  That is so creepy.

• 1:03:24Karen Kilgariff?

  "A soft hand patted my cheek," we're still in the quote, "A soft hand patted my cheek, and the voice again assured us that we would not be disturbed anymore that night," end quote.

• 1:03:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, that's nice.

• 1:03:34Karen Kilgariff?

  So we have a drawing of Betsy Bell.

• 1:03:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, she looks fucking hairy, like she has not had a good night's sleep in a long time.

• 1:03:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Betsy Bell is like, "Will you please?"

• 1:03:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:43Karen Kilgariff?

  "Help me."

• 1:03:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Listen, she's saying.

• 1:03:45Karen Kilgariff?

  But also, I would wear that, and I would have that hair. It would be fun. The entity is so intrusive in Betsy's life that it even influences who she decides to marry. So before the haunting started, she was engaged to her childhood sweetheart and the boy next door, Joshua Gardner. But the entity seems dead set on ruining this relationship. It follows them around, harassing them, and that leads Betsy to break off the engagement. And then when she's 15.

• 1:04:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 1:04:13Karen Kilgariff?

  She marries her much older former schoolteacher, Richard Powell, instead.

• 1:04:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Richard's the ghost.

• 1:04:19Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean.

• 1:04:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, that's a weird matchmaking trend, but...

• 1:04:25Karen Kilgariff?

  It's interesting, and yes, it's that kind of, I wonder if there's a piece of it that's like, Betsy's like, I don't want my one true love, Joshua Gardner.

• 1:04:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:34Karen Kilgariff?

  To be subjected to this.

• 1:04:35Georgia Hardstark?

  So I'm gonna marry an old dude.

• 1:04:36Karen Kilgariff?

  So creepy old Richard Powell, you're next. Okay, so all of this reaches its apex, essentially, in December of 1820, when John Bell, who is now around 70 years old, becomes bedridden and then dies in his sleep. At first, the family attributes John's death to the entity's unending torment, all the stress and pain it's caused him over the last three years. But then the family finds a strange vial near his bed. No one knows where it came from. So the Bells call out to the entity, asking if it knows. The disembodied voice tells them, quote, "I put it there and gave old Jack a big dose of it last night while he was asleep," end quote.

• 1:05:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Shit.

• 1:05:19Karen Kilgariff?

  So then, the Bell sons decide they're gonna test out what this liquid is. You're not gonna like this part.

• 1:05:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:05:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, warning to our audience. They give a few drops to a stray cat.

• 1:05:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, come on!

• 1:05:31Karen Kilgariff?

  You knew. That cat dies sadly, so they throw the vial into the fireplace. And per Richard, quote, "Instantly, a blue blaze shot up the chimney like a flash of powder," end quote. So, one very famous poison that turns blue when it's burned is arsenic.

• 1:05:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Hmm.

• 1:05:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Here's John Bell's deathbed, and this is kind of like all the stuff that was going on around it.

• 1:05:56Georgia Hardstark?

  That poor cat.

• 1:05:57Karen Kilgariff?

  I know. There's a human being back there, though, awesome.

• 1:06:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:06:01Karen Kilgariff?

  So, reportedly.

• 1:06:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:05Karen Kilgariff?

  The entity attends John's funeral. It is in the crowd of mourners, singing jolly drinking songs.

• 1:06:12Georgia Hardstark?

  What?

• 1:06:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:13Georgia Hardstark?

  This is getting like, comical, kind of.

• 1:06:15Karen Kilgariff?

  It's crazy. Like, the idea that everybody in like, this little town has to deal with like, a haunting.

• 1:06:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:23Karen Kilgariff?

  It's very, it breaks the like, horror movie genre.

• 1:06:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally. The subtlety of a haunting.

• 1:06:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. It's not surprising, where you're just like, no one, no one's going, uh!

• 1:06:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. You think you're going crazy. It's like, everyone's like, no, it's totally true.

• 1:06:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Just let it finish the song. It'll be fine. So later, Richard will write that the entity, quote, "Remained with us after father's death through the winter and spring of 1821, all the while diminishing or becoming less demonstrative. Finally, it took leave of the family," end quote. Almost immediately, the story of the haunting at the Bell Farm, it becomes entrenched in Tennessee lore, and then it spreads to neighboring states. In the 1860s, it's even said to have factored into a murder case in Tennessee, as two defendants claim that they killed their victim because he claimed to have powers given to him by the same entity that haunted the Bell Farm. Both of these defendants are acquitted.

• 1:07:19Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 1:07:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Mm-hmm. It works.

• 1:07:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 1:07:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Over the years, this story has become nationally famous, documented, or dramatized in papers, on the radio, in books, in movies. It's said to be one of the inspirations behind the Blair Witch Project.

• 1:07:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh.

• 1:07:35Karen Kilgariff?

  And there are several supernatural theories trying to explain what exactly happened at the Bell Farm. They are recorded in the Red Book. Some theorize that the haunting was instigated by a burial site that was disturbed. Classic.

• 1:07:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Classic.

• 1:07:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Poltergeist. Perhaps unknowingly, when the Bells started their farm in Tennessee. Another involves a neighbor woman named Kate Batts. Uh, this is where I was like, oh, it's a little reality injected in here.

• 1:08:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, that's what I want.

• 1:08:02Karen Kilgariff?

  So Kate Batts was the Bell's neighbor, and John and Kate had been fighting over a property dispute for years before the hauntings began.

• 1:08:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Come on.

• 1:08:11Karen Kilgariff?

  The idea that Kate created this situation with witchcraft, just to ruin John's life, is so pervasive that in the Red Book, the entity is called Kate, and that's why it's called the Bell Witch, is that it's her.

• 1:08:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 1:08:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. So that's how, it's just like, so...

• 1:08:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Could she just have done it without anything supernatural?

• 1:08:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, just somehow, she's like, if I get this tube, then it goes into their house, and they think it's a disembodied thing.

• 1:08:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Because there's something on his bedside, like, that she forgot to take with her after she killed him, and she's like, uh, yeah, it's, uh...

• 1:08:44Karen Kilgariff?

  The vial of arsenic?

• 1:08:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:46Karen Kilgariff?

  And then has to run back to the tube.

• 1:08:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:48Karen Kilgariff?

  To the corn cob and be like, I left that there on purpose.

• 1:08:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Don't kill cats, though, please. Not that one.

• 1:08:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Don't just hand it out to cats. Okay, so, this is more than a century since the Salem Witch Trials, but the habit of labeling unorthodox women as witches is an American trend.

• 1:09:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Classic.

• 1:09:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Kate is a transplant from the North, so she's an outsider in Tennessee. She's not stereotypically ladylike. She's large. She is strong. She's stubborn. And she's a shrewd business owner.

• 1:09:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Amen.

• 1:09:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Kill her! After her husband dies, she has to manage the family farm while raising three kids alone. She does all of it and retains the family wealth. An amazing feat for a woman with the odds stacked against her. And so, of course, she's a fucking witch.

• 1:09:35Georgia Hardstark?

  She's a fucking witch.

• 1:09:36Karen Kilgariff?

  She's a witch. And then who's going to get the money and the farmland? Once she's the witch. But some people wonder if John Bell was poisoned, not by an entity, not by an angry neighbor, but by someone in the family.

• 1:09:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Sure.

• 1:09:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Or a so-called friend, or one of the many enslaved men or women that he kept enslaved.

• 1:09:57Georgia Hardstark?

  When it could be multiple people that did that to you? You gotta check yourself.

• 1:10:02Karen Kilgariff?

  People also theorize whether or not Betsy, the daughter herself, was behind the most notorious disturbances, faking her own abuse, and speaking as the disembodied voice through acting, stunt work, ventriloquism, whatever she figured out. There's also a theory it was the former teacher, Richard Powell, hoping to drive a wedge between Betsy and her true love, so he could marry her. A more modern theory is the domestic violence theory.

• 1:10:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Because no one could confront the monster directly. They created and then scapegoated a boogeyman.

• 1:10:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:35Karen Kilgariff?

  These days, an important part of the Bell Witch lore is the red book itself, which was published 70 years after The Haunting, so relatively soon after. Its author was a newspaper man named Martin Van Buren Ingram. He was from Tennessee. He knew the Bell Witch story, and he decided to investigate its authenticity himself. In the early 1890s, he interviewed the living descendants of all the people involved, because no one who had experienced The Haunting firsthand was still alive. So details shift depending on the storyteller and their proximity to the action. Over time, the facts get distorted, they get added to, they get embellished. So the red book is like, as factual as they could have been, 70 years out, essentially.

• 1:11:18Karen Kilgariff?

  But Martin Ingram maintained that the son of Richard Bell, a Tennessee state representative named James Allen Bell, gave him Richard's manuscript detailing The Haunting, so as first person as possible.

• 1:11:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:30Karen Kilgariff?

  But the manuscript itself has never publicly surfaced. What we do have is a signed letter from James acknowledging its existence. In this same letter, which is included in the red book, James says, "He suspects his father wrote the manuscript decades after The Haunting, wishing to document everything for posterity." And that when his father handed it over, he urged James not to make it public until every member of the family who had been there for The Haunting firsthand died. So the last Bell child died in 1890, and in 1891 Ingram said he received a manuscript. So that tracks.

• 1:12:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Got it.

• 1:12:08Karen Kilgariff?

  The takeaway here is probably less about proving whether or not this story is true.

• 1:12:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 1:12:13Karen Kilgariff?

  And more that it's what historian Rick Gregory describes as a, quote, "jigsaw puzzle formed by memory, gossip, folklore, and that somewhere in there, the truth is hiding." This month, in Adams, Tennessee, now that it's a real town, they celebrate the Bell Witch Fall Festival all month long.

• 1:12:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Fun.

• 1:12:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Where paranormal enthusiasts descend upon the small town to visit a replica of the house, which they built. Looky.

• 1:12:39Georgia Hardstark?

  No way.

• 1:12:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. So you can go there, and you can look at the replica. And then they also go to a nearby cave, because there's a cave near the house where the entity was supposed to have originated from, and where it returned to once The Haunting's ended.

• 1:12:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 1:12:56Karen Kilgariff?

  There, people have reported hearing voices and knocks, feeling temperature drops, and having the unsettling feeling of being watched by something. In a cave.

• 1:13:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Security camera, oh.

• 1:13:11Karen Kilgariff?

  They're like, oh, they put these flock cameras up a while ago. Don't worry about those. Anyway, that's the legend of Tennessee's Bell Witch.

• 1:13:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow, I don't know anything about that.

• 1:13:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Really?

• 1:13:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Can we just really quick see Betsy Bell again? Just real quick. Imagine this is the only picture of you left in history. It's just like, so on the day I got married and I looked real pretty and I had like cherry juice on my cheeks? No one.

• 1:13:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Coming to snap to.

• 1:13:38Karen Kilgariff?

  After year three.

• 1:13:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Snap to portrait, what?

• 1:13:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Snapped a quick illustration, but no.

• 1:13:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Look at her shoes on the ground and her comb is on the ground.

• 1:13:47Karen Kilgariff?

  She's just like throwing shit down.

• 1:13:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Amazing.

• 1:13:51Karen Kilgariff?

  All right. You've done it.

• 1:13:53Georgia Hardstark?

  We did it. That was a fucking solid Halloween special.

• 1:13:57Karen Kilgariff?

  I don't know what people want from us if that wasn't what they want from us.

• 1:14:01Georgia Hardstark?

  We do so much all year round, and this one special day, we can't.

• 1:14:05Karen Kilgariff?

  We just ask for your approval in one day and the answer's no? Wait, what, you're saying it is yes?

• 1:14:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, we're gonna haunt you then.

• 1:14:13Karen Kilgariff?

  On Netflix.

• 1:14:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Congratulations.

• 1:14:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Stay sexy.

• 1:14:15Georgia Hardstark?

  And don't get murdered.

• 1:14:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye.

• 1:14:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Elvis, do you want a cookie?

• 1:14:30Karen Kilgariff?

  This has been an Exactly Right Production.

• 1:14:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Our managing producer is Molly Smith.

• 1:14:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Our consulting producer is Kate Schellbach.

• 1:14:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Our creative lead is Allison Agosti.

• 1:14:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Our associate producer is Tessa Hughes, and our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.

• 1:14:42Georgia Hardstark?

  This episode was mixed by Leona Scolacci.

• 1:14:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Our researchers are Maren McLaughlin and Ally Elkin.

• 1:14:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Email your hometowns to [email protected], and follow the show on Instagram at MyFavoriteMurder.

• 1:14:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:14:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Or watch new episodes every week on Netflix. Search for My Favorite Murder, add us to your list, and hit the double thumbs up button.

• 1:15:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye.

• 1:15:18Speaker 04

  Check engine, ABS, or maintenance light on? Take the guesswork out of your warning lights with O'Reilly Veriscan. The service is free and provides a report with solutions verified by ASE-certified master technicians. And if you need help, we could recommend a shop for you. Ask for O'Reilly Veriscan today.

• 1:15:44Speaker 07

  I'm Lacey Mosley, author, actor, stand-up comedian, creator, and host of Scam Goddess Podcast, the true crime comedy podcast, all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it. Each week I bring on an amazing guest.

• 1:15:56Speaker 04

  Ooh, I scammed them.

• 1:15:57Speaker 07

  What?

• 1:15:58Speaker 04

  I could talk to you for an hour.

• 1:15:59Speaker 07

  You're a generational yapper, like me. That's why I had to make yapping a job. And now you can catch full episodes of my show on YouTube. Start listening to Scam Goddess on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.