Stop Asking "Why" - What an FBI Negotiator Teaches Parents Instead

Dr. Becky talks to former FBI negotiator Chris Voss about why asking your kid "why" almost always backfires, and what to ask instead.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  After my first baby was born, I treated my own recovery like a complete afterthought. If the baby needed something, I showed up immediately. If I needed something, well, it would wait. But research shows that when parents have the support they need, they're better able to care for their children. Taking care of yourself isn't separate from parenting. It's a huge part of parenting. That's why I love Frida's mission to prepare women for the realities of pregnancy, postpartum, recovery, and feeding. Frida creates solutions for the moments that often catch moms off guard. The Postpartum Essentials Kit and Breastfeeding Survival Kit help women feel more prepared for those early weeks of motherhood. Be motherhood prepared and shop Frida at Amazon, Target, and Walmart today.

• 0:43Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  You can't make me. I'm not going. No, no, no. I think these phrases are the most common things parents come to me about. What do I do when my kid says no, when they refuse, when they just cross their arms and look at me in a way I never would have looked at my parents? My kid's defiant. My kid's difficult. How do I get my kid to cooperate? Okay, I have the most amazing guest to talk about this exact topic. Chris Voss. Chris spent decades as an FBI hostage negotiator. And his work is built around a truth that every parent eventually learns the hard way. When people feel cornered, they do not become more reasonable.

• 1:28Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Just because we lecture, or scream, or give them an even more intense threat. Now, kids are not hostage takers. They're kids, and we'll be clear about that. And conflict has patterns. Escalation has patterns. And staying steady under pressure is a skill that everyone can learn. So today, we're going to talk about tools, mirroring, labeling, voice, better questions, actually wanting to hear the word no from the other person, and what to do in those five seconds after your kid refuses to do something they actually have to do.

• 2:08Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  And we'll also be talking about how to use these tools in a way that protects what matters most: staying connected to your kid. I'm Dr. Becky, and this is Good Inside.

• 2:22Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  All right, Chris, I want to start with the word no, because-

• 2:25Speaker 01

  No.

• 2:29Speaker 01

  Sorry, you threw me a softball.

• 2:31Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  I did. I did. I walked right into that one.

• 2:36Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Well, it's one of the number one things I hear from parents as a, um, I don't know, kind of as a complaint, as a frustration. My kid always says no, no to bath, no to bedtime, no to soccer practice, and they love soccer. But you have a different perspective on no, about whether it's a problem, whether you actually want to elicit a no. So tell me a little bit about that, and then maybe we'll apply it to toddlers.

• 2:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, an interesting thought also thing about applying it to toddlers and how they learn it. But, you know, the act of saying no makes us feel safe and protected. And empathy is about not what it is to you, but what is it to the other side? We can be in exactly the same conversation. You could be loving it, I could feel squashed. And you were loving it so much, you don't even notice I feel squashed. It's one of the problems with sharing common ground. I start to tell something about my childhood, and you leap in and tell a story about your childhood. And you feel so strongly about that you don't realize you just squashed me. You stole my story. But you're having such a great time sharing. You don't have any idea the other side feels stolen.

• 3:45Speaker 01

  So yes, both the words yes and no, and a lot of other words are exactly like that. We hate to hear no, but everybody loves to say it. Because every time you said no, you protected yourself from something. It's a Pavlovian response. I think principally triggered by so many people in their younger innocent days who were bamboozled by yes. Like, I still have somewhere in my storage a coupon book I spent $25 for when I was 19. It was supposed to be worth $5,000, and I never figured out how to spend any of the coupons. I'm sure I get yesed into that.

• 4:24Speaker 01

  So everybody gets bamboozled by yes, so much so that it sounds harsh, but my comparison is a better child. So regardless of intent of yes, people are worried that they're going to get hooked. So everybody's worried about saying yes to anything, because everybody's been conned with yes. So no is the same way. If yes is, I'm being conned, no, I protected myself. No, okay. And in point of fact, if you get somebody to say no, anybody, they feel strong, safe, and protected. Which interestingly enough, modeling for toddlers, adults are modeling how to be in control.

• 5:09Speaker 01

  And kids don't learn what you tell them. They learn what they see you model. So as an adult, you're modeling control to them by saying no. So that's how they learn it.

• 5:22Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  So I'm thinking about the toddler saying no, because the first image I had when you were saying, a no makes us feel protected, right? Is I say to my toddler, or my eight-year-old, my 10-year-old, hey, you know, whatever we're doing has been fun. It's time to get ready for bed. No. I kind of picture, I don't know, I'm saying, hey, it's time to start the bedtime routine. And they're kind of saying, and they only say this through no, because they probably aren't sophisticated enough, even like we aren't sometimes, to say, hold on, I'm still having fun. I'd really rather not go to bed. I really would like to watch another episode. I want to keep playing Clue, whatever we're doing. They just say no. But it is kind of like a boundary around them. Like, this is me. I don't want to. And this is you. You want me to.

• 6:06Speaker 01

  Right.

• 6:08Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  But then things escalate a lot, right? We, I don't know, we start yelling at our kids. We tell them-

• 6:13Speaker 01

  How dare you? I'm in control. I'm the boss. I'm the dad.

• 6:16Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  You're gonna be so tired, you know, you never listen. What? As an expert in negotiations, like what have working with so many adult situations taught you about kind of what might actually be effective in that moment?

• 6:30Speaker 01

  Well, so, and my thoughts also on a parent, you're really trying to help your kids think. So by giving them orders, are you helping them think?

• 6:44Speaker 01

  And then, of course, you're saying, well, to be an adult is to give orders, and you're not really appearing to be collaborative. Now, there's a limit to that with a toddler, or at any age collaborative, but,

• 6:58Speaker 01

  you know, what we teach people on a regular basis is if you make what they want, what you want, the path to what they want. So with a how question, because how makes people think? Like, how are you going to be able to do what you want to do tomorrow if you don't go to bed now? You know, you want to trigger thought patterns in your kids. You want to get them to think with you. Maybe it takes a little bit longer, you know, you're trying to get your kid to go to bed because you're tired. You're worn out. You're at the end of the day, you're a little gassed, you're suffering from massive decision fatigue. And then you got this task ahead, you know, put this lively, wild protesting toddler to bed, and it's just horrifying to you.

• 7:43Speaker 01

  And overwhelming, because it's been a tough, long day. So, you know, an adult is a human. It's tough to be at your best at the end of the day.

• 7:51Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 7:52Speaker 01

  So the challenge is, you know, how did you walk into that in the first place? A little bit seeing it coming. Oh, this happens to me every night. Okay, well, at some point in time, is it predictable? Like, you know when nine o'clock is. It ain't surprising you.

• 8:12Speaker 01

  What kind of prep can you head it off? Or it's top man and adult, busy day, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, getting things done on time. And you got to put this squirmy, lively creature-

• 8:26Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 8:27Speaker 01

  -down-

• 8:27Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 8:28Speaker 01

  -for the night.

• 8:29Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  I want to come back to something you said where, tell me if I got this right, you're saying, this is probably true adult to adult or adult to kid. I need to figure out how I can kind of create, like how I can be on the same team as my kid against going to bed. We have to kind of align toward that goal. Is that right? Versus, all of a sudden, I'm in enemy territory where it's me against my kid.

• 8:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Well, how are you going to grow to be big and strong, you know, get a good night's sleep? I'm not saying you're going to get an automatically good response, but how and what questions are designed to get people to think? Whether you're an adult or a child. If I want you to think with me about getting something done, I'm gonna say, how do we achieve this? That's as much to get you to think about it as it is to get an answer.

• 9:20Speaker 01

  And when we're teaching negotiation, you got to be careful with how and what as questions for adults, because they're fatiguing the answer. They trigger what Dan Conlin called deep thinking.

• 9:31Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 9:32Speaker 01

  You know, what's the biggest challenge you face? I can ask you that at 10 o'clock in the morning. You probably lay it out for me.

• 9:39Speaker 01

  What keeps you up at night? 10 o'clock in the morning, you're gonna give me a good answer. 4 o'clock in the afternoon, I say to you, what keeps you up at night? You'd be like, I don't know, leave me alone.

• 9:48Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  But I think then, I'm going to translate that for parents. We're also talking about timing. Timing matters, right?

• 9:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, good point.

• 9:54Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  So many times for parents, parents will say, well, what do I do at nine o'clock when my kid's having a tantrum about not going to bed? And I'm at my wits' end. And I often say, like, I don't know. There's not many good options at that point. Like, your car is so close to a cliff. But if your kid is protesting bed 19 nights in a row, it seems like Saturday morning, when you're together in a calm moment, that might be a more opportune time to collaborate around, you know, nighttime issues.

• 10:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, there's two things, because-

• 10:26Speaker 01

  You know, they say when you're up to your rear end in alligators, it's not a good time to be reminded you should have drained the swamp in the first place.

• 10:33Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Exactly.

• 10:34Speaker 01

  So you're up to your rear end in alligators when a kid's throwing a tantrum. They're doing that because you conditioned them. It's successful.

• 10:45Speaker 01

  You rewarded that bad behavior in the past by giving in.

• 10:48Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Maybe.

• 10:49Speaker 01

  Oh, no, without question. That's learned behavior.

• 10:52Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  I mean, you think it's, I mean, kids have tantrums often because they're overwhelmed in a situation. Right? I mean, parents can set boundaries all day long around things and still some kids are just overwhelmed and it comes out that way. What are some of the things you coach adults to do with other adults when they hear a no? They're trying to get to a yes, but they hear no. Like, what are, what are some of the moves?

• 11:15Speaker 01

  Well, if I, you know, then, then trigger a no. Like it, like it's, it's so automatic and it's so stupid. If I say to you, do you agree with this? You'd be like, eh. And but if I say, do you disagree? You'd be like, no, I don't disagree. But, you know, here are the issues. Which is a quick, if you feel safe and protected,

• 11:38Speaker 01

  then immediately you're going to either give me implementation or issues and it's going to be genuine. And so what I really need on either one.

• 11:47Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 11:47Speaker 01

  Cause a yes or no is simply a decision. What's important is what comes after. And what comes after is a genuine discussion of implementation or obstacles. And so if I say, is this like a bad idea? And you have obstacles. And then you say, no, it's not a bad idea, but here are the obstacles. Now, you've given that to me genuinely.

• 12:11Speaker 01

  If I say, does this look like a good idea? Ideally, you would say, well, yes, it's a good idea, but here are the obstacles. But since everybody has been conditioned that every time they say yes, the yes momentum, by definition, if you look it up,

• 12:25Speaker 01

  it says every yes is a micro agreement or a tie down. Which means every time you say yes, you get tied down a little more. Maslow says in a hierarchy needs number one is survival. And I contend and hostage negotiators in human history has borne out that the number one need is autonomy. And if you think survival is more important than autonomy, then I'll ask you to point out in the entire history of mankind civilization, one society that was content in slavery. Every enslaved society has been willing to die to get out of slavery. And the United States is founded on a concept, give me liberty or give me death. Now, we didn't invent that.

• 13:08Speaker 01

  We choose autonomy over survival. And so to say no is to give yourself autonomy, to protect your autonomy.

• 13:17Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  You know, I'm thinking about, I think there are these kids, I kind of call them like resilient rebels. That's like my subtype of these kids where they are deeply, deeply attached to their autonomy. Like, and everyone is, but these kids especially, they appear strong-willed, they appear defiant. But I think what happens when they feel done to or controlled is, is they go scorched earth, which is kind of a way of saying like they would choose autonomy. They, they're trying to not literally burn their house down, but they want to take it all down when they don't have a say in their bedtime or what clothes they're wearing or their breakfast or whatever kind of micro moment represents, am I actually my own independent person? And I think they're so attuned to it and those kids are especially challenging.

• 14:02Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Because they're, they're so strong in those situations. So I, I hear what you're saying. I think there's a lot of truth to that.

• 14:09Speaker 01

  All right.

• 14:10Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  So, okay, so what, another tool you talk about that I think is really interesting is, is mirroring. Right? And I'm going to play some things for you that I think so many of us as parents were conditioned to respond to with lecture. Okay. Which is definitely not mirroring, right? So I'm not going to bed, oh, you are going to bed. And if you don't get this much sleep, right? Or I don't want to go to the birthday party. We already are suped for the birthday party. It's your cousin. We have to go to the birthday party. Okay. What's, what's coming up? What's up coming up for you?

• 14:38Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, I mean, it's parental challenges 101. Life as a parent, right? Especially as, as the older they get and the more, yeah, they're looking for autonomy.

• 14:49Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yes.

• 14:49Speaker 01

  Or then puberty. When the brain is being scrambled by growth.

• 14:57Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yes.

• 14:58Speaker 01

  And they don't know which way is up.

• 15:00Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Let's go to, you know, a micro moment in the house and say it's around puberty, right? So maybe it's around a kid wanting social media, parents saying no, or a kid is, you know, holding their phone and the rule is no phone in the bedroom, right? I think these are these moments when it's so easy to launch into a lecture.

• 15:16Speaker 01

  Right.

• 15:16Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Right? But you talk about like kind of mirroring or three words, right? Can you, can you speak a little bit about that?

• 15:23Speaker 01

  That's really with parents and kids, that's one of the magic tools.

• 15:26Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 15:26Speaker 01

  And mirroring is just repeating the last one to three-ish words, could be one word, could be usually number one and five. And then the inflection is really important. It's either inflection of comprehension, which would be the last three words. Downward inflection, comprehension. You can downward inflect just by dropping your chin. Male or female, you could have a high squeaky voice like Minnie Mouse. If you drop your chin, you still downward inflect. You don't got to have a deep voice to downward inflect. Or curiosity? And the physical movement with that is also just turning your head to the side and lifting your chin. Either side, it doesn't, doesn't make any difference.

• 16:09Speaker 01

  And it's really encouraging. And so sort of the classic moment, how was your day? Fine. What'd you learn? I forget. All right. So you get in, you conditioned your child into that dynamic. And how did you do that? Cause when you said, how was your day? The first time they laid it all out, you immediately went to what did you learn? Which gave no indication whatsoever that you listened to what they said. A lot of really well-intentioned parents want to show interest.

• 16:42Speaker 01

  Just ask these two questions. How was your day? What did you learn? How was your day? What did you learn? You do that two or three times, a kid catches on. You didn't listen to the answer in the first place. So me as an adult, if you're not listening to me, I'm not going to talk to you.

• 16:57Speaker 01

  So no shortages of moms have started the conversation back up with their daughters. How was your day? Fine. And she says, fine?

• 17:11Speaker 01

  Curiosity, upward inflection, a mirror.

• 17:15Speaker 01

  And the next conver, the kid goes,

• 17:20Speaker 01

  you heard that answer? You actually listened? I'm shocked. And two or three conversations later, it's not going to happen that day. I guarantee you by the third day.

• 17:35Speaker 01

  Cause we get these emails from our clients all the time. My daughter is talking to me. And all I did was mirror. And we're having the longest conversations now that we haven't had in years.

• 17:50Speaker 01

  So the question's a great well-intentioned question. And the mirror, the skill that you just asked me about, is the easiest way to show that you caught it. Now, you may have caught the answer.

• 18:04Speaker 01

  But if you immediately move on to the next question, they got no idea. And it's as simple as a mirror and opening kids up right and left, all over the place.

• 18:15Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  You know, I'm thinking about what it would feel like for me or it's happened when someone asks me a question and I share something and they're on to their next question. I feel like I'm an item on their to-do list. Like I'm fulfilling their agenda.

• 18:31Speaker 01

  Well said.

• 18:31Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  You know, and there's, I guess, like, you're right, there's not a lot of space for me in that conversation. I'm kind of like an object in some way. And I guess what we're all looking for when our kid is coming home is, is for them to be the subject of the story and for us to listen. But we don't always actually communicate that by the way we respond.

• 18:52Speaker 01

  Right. And then, and again, there's, there's nothing wrong with the intention.

• 18:55Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 18:55Speaker 01

  But it's intention and impact. A parent's asking those questions, the intention is to show interest and you are interested. And the intention is to grow them and help them think.

• 19:06Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 19:06Speaker 01

  And so it's all there. And so the, the tiny little tweak though, is making them, and you can't say, I understand that, you know, that's a whole conditioning thing as well, which is, it's what people say when they want you to stop talking. I understand, now listen to me. So we're conditioned that I understand is somebody shutting you off. But the mirror is the simplest skill. And we've got, you know, I got, I get women coaches on my team, Sandy Hine, and she's got a lot of women clients. And some of them come to her like, how do I get my daughter to talk to me? And Sandy's like, mirror them. You'll be shocked.

• 19:46Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 19:47Speaker 01

  And they get back to her and a week and go like, it's great. It took two or three conversations. Now suddenly she's talking to me again.

• 19:55Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  And, and tell me if this is right, because I think about the parent who's listening thinking, okay, all right. My kid's at school, they're in camp. They're going to say, how was your day, sweetie? Fine. And I'm going to say, fine?

• 20:09Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  I have to wait. I feel like there's something about waiting that matters.

• 20:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:13Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Okay, so talk about that.

• 20:14Speaker 01

  Well, Derek Gant on my team pointed out to me, it takes at least six seconds for neurochemicals that you've triggered to go through somebody's system.

• 20:25Speaker 01

  So when you signal comprehension or curiosity.

• 20:29Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 20:31Speaker 01

  Then it's really important to go silent so that whatever feeling of being heard, and when somebody feels heard, neurochemicals are triggered inside. And you gotta let them work their way through the system.

• 20:45Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 20:45Speaker 01

  And six seconds is a long time. Most people can't stop talking for one second.

• 20:50Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  I mean, it is, especially in 2026, when we get, you know, information by the nanosecond, right? So our children are much slower than our algorithms.

• 20:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. So it's critical to let it sink in.

• 21:04Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 21:04Speaker 01

  Let them react.

• 21:06Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  And I just want to stay with this one more moment, because I'm thinking about the meta-communication we have with people, which is under our words. So I'm thinking about, how was your day? Fine. And in some ways, the fine is my kid's way of saying, are you here? Are you really listening?

• 21:24Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 21:25Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Do I really matter?

• 21:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, I would agree.

• 21:27Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  And if you mirror back, you're saying to me, hey, kiddo, I'm really here.

• 21:31Speaker 01

  I'm dialed in.

• 21:32Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  You're the subject here. I'm listening.

• 21:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:35Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  And if I move on to the next question instead, okay, but what'd you do? What'd you do in camp? Did you work on that soccer move? In some ways, when I move on to that quickly, when my kid asks me, are you really here? Are you really listening? Do you care?

• 21:48Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  I think what they hear, even though it's not the intention, is no. I just, I have a number of answers I need from you, and you didn't give me a satisfactory first one, so I'm just gonna move on to the next one.

• 21:59Speaker 01

  Completely agree. And as you said, it's not the intention.

• 22:03Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Let me ask you one more question about mirroring. Let's say your kid is saying something, you know, pretty escalated. I hate you. You're the worst dad in the world, right? What's the version of mirroring that you think is kind of effective in that moment?

• 22:16Speaker 01

  Well, I, you know, if somebody were to say to me, I hate you, I'd be like, hate me?

• 22:23Speaker 01

  Just curiosity is a superpower. Kid says, I hate you. If you go, you hate me with curiosity?

• 22:31Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 22:32Speaker 01

  First of all, you survive. It protects you.

• 22:36Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yes.

• 22:38Speaker 01

  It's a selfish thing to do to protect your state of mind, but you're no good for the kid if you're angry with them, if you're offended. You just started to go down a rabbit hole that's very difficult to recover from. So to be a great parent, you gotta protect your psyche first.

• 22:56Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 22:58Speaker 01

  And if you can put yourself in curiosity, now you can get a grip.

• 23:03Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Let me ask you, because I think parenting, and I'm curious if you see it in other places too, so far as in hostage negotiation, something happens where parents conflate curiosity with approval or permissiveness.

• 23:16Speaker 01

  Interesting, yeah.

• 23:17Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Right? Okay, so being curious in that moment, right? You're kind of able in that moment to say, okay, something's going on for my kid. I don't know exactly what it is, but they, you know, they don't really have the words or the regulation to be able to tell me exactly what they're upset about or the series of events. So there's something under the, I hate you. But what I hear from parents that stops them from being curious is, my kid can't think this is okay. So I'm gonna stay calm, then my kid is gonna learn that you can just talk to people like that, right? And so there's this, something's getting conflated there. I'm curious if you see that, and your kind of more adult-focused work.

• 23:55Speaker 01

  That's a really interesting point, and I think as the user, you're gonna be very, you're gonna really be conscious and be concerned about what you've demonstrated is okay.

• 24:07Speaker 01

  And you gotta test drive curiosity enough. I mean, empathy is not approval. Empathy is not sympathy. Empathy is not agreement.

• 24:16Speaker 01

  Empathy is not compassion, although it's a very compassionate thing to do. Empathy is a precursor to compassion. And a lot of people have trouble not making it synonymous with agreement. Understanding is not agreement.

• 24:28Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Exactly.

• 24:29Speaker 01

  And as soon as you internally can make that distinction, and then if anybody ever has, tries to question, oh, so you understand, that means you agree. My answer is always like, no, I don't agree. It's not gonna stop me from understanding. It's not gonna stop me from being curious. And by and large, people don't pull that game on us. And then even if you're worried, you can say, before I disagree,

• 25:02Speaker 01

  here's what I think you're saying. So you told somebody upfront, you didn't agree. If you're worried about it.

• 25:08Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yep. Before I disagree, let me see if I got this right.

• 25:12Speaker 01

  There you go. Exactly.

• 25:13Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  And so maybe internally, I'm just thinking about the parent who's thinking, my kid can't talk to me like that. I don't want them to think I can, I approve of this behavior. And if I'm being curious and I'm gonna understand it, is that approving? And if I'm trying to figure out that journey, maybe a little cheat code is saying out loud, before I disagree, before I tell you why that behavior wasn't okay, let me see if I got this right. It's kind of like, I feel internally, if that's a new journey for me, I can, I feel a little safer.

• 25:43Speaker 01

  I think it's a great cheat code.

• 25:45Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 25:46Speaker 01

  Now, then the rest of the trick is, when you say, before I disagree, let me see if I got this right. As a Hollywood exec, I've been quoting for a couple of years, Bob Evans, he said, there's three sides to every story, your side, my side, and the truth. So a lot of people, when they're gonna summarize a situation, they'll summarize their perspective instead of the other person's perspective.

• 26:12Speaker 01

  And that's an easy trap to fall into. So you gotta make sure that you're, when you say, let me see if I got this right,

• 26:20Speaker 01

  then you gotta, you gotta say out loud what they're communicating.

• 26:25Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  You really, you thought you could stay up later tonight? You wanted to watch the rest of the Knicks game?

• 26:32Speaker 01

  Well, you wanna watch the Knicks game because it's important to you. That's their, that's what they're saying. Let me get this straight. You wanna watch the Knicks game because it's important to you, and you think that if you don't, your life is over?

• 26:49Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 26:50Speaker 01

  Which is, you know, half the kids protest is, oh my, it's gonna be, I just die if this, you know, my life will be over. All right, so let me get this straight. You're actually gonna die. You know, as silly as it sounds, say their perspective out loud. It shows you're not scared of it.

• 27:08Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  A hundred percent, which I think, if we go back to what we're really teaching kids in a moment, I think that's the irony, is if we have a longer-term perspective, it's not so much that my kid is learning, my parent approves of this behavior, but if my parent is as overwhelmed by me as I am by me, that's probably the biggest lesson of, you know, that I'm gonna take going forward.

• 27:29Speaker 01

  Very true. You're dead on. You don't wanna be overwhelmed by that.

• 27:33Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 27:33Speaker 01

  If you can summarize their perspective, then you're showing you're not afraid of it. You're not overwhelmed.

• 27:38Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Same thing with being curious. If I'm curious about something, the thing didn't kill me, kind of in the moment, right?

• 27:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, well said.

• 27:44Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  So, okay, so there's three sides to every story. There's my side, there's your side, and then there's the truth. It makes me think about something else that you talk about, which is the difference between you're right and that's right.

• 27:58Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  And one of the things I often tell parents is, you know, kind of with your kid, you can be right or you can be effective, but you can rarely be both. You know, so you're home, your life you pick, you know? But what is the difference between you're right and that's right? In terms of which we're gearing toward in a conversation?

• 28:16Speaker 01

  You know, that's one of those classic phrases, depends upon which side of it you're on, how you hear it. Because there isn't a human being that I know, over the age of 12, that hasn't learned that if somebody's giving them a hard time, in order to make that person feel really happy and get them to shut up and go away, all you gotta do is look at them and say, you're right. And people find hearing that so satisfying that they get happy and they shut up and they lay off.

• 28:50Speaker 01

  And there isn't, you know, everybody I know has done it two or three times each week with a boss, a colleague, a family member,

• 29:00Speaker 01

  especially somebody who's in a position, if they're in a position where you want to or you have to preserve the relationship, you don't wanna offend them, but you want them to shut up. So you're right. And they stop talking.

• 29:13Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 29:15Speaker 01

  And so we use it as a tool to get people to shut up and go away, and yet almost everybody falls victim to it when somebody says you're right to them. They go like, yeah, of course I'm right. Oh, I'm so happy. Woo-hoo. And I'm sad, since I'm satisfied that I've made my point with the other side, I can stop talking. Point made.

• 29:33Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 29:34Speaker 01

  It really is, like, is ongoing human comedy.

• 29:39Speaker 01

  So the flip side, that's right until you understand what it means is not as satisfying to hear.

• 29:48Speaker 01

  Because you, the word you is always much more engaging to us. It reaches in and touches us in a way that not everybody fully appreciates. And that's why you're like, you're right, because that you word is in there, you're attached to right. And when you hear that's right, you don't feel attached to it. But, and then when people say it, they don't consciously realize. They say it when they feel that what they've heard is not your truth or my truth, but it's the truth.

• 30:21Speaker 01

  And then hearing the truth, they don't realize it, but then they get attached to the purveyor of that truth.

• 30:31Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 30:31Speaker 01

  And that's a very strong bond. Charismatic leaders, it doesn't matter who you are, you start getting that's rights out of your followers, and then data to the contrary will not shake you.

• 30:43Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 30:43Speaker 01

  Because they told the truth, they're the purveyors of the truth, and you don't realize how bonded you get to these people.

• 30:55Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  I don't know about you, but by the time September rolls around, I am ready for cozy season. That's when I start thinking about Thanksgiving plans and travel that allows me to spend quality time with my family. I'm thinking board games, changing leaves, maybe even a living room with a fireplace where we can read our books together. Maybe you're the kind of family that loves an adventure and wants a cabin in the mountains somewhere. Or maybe you're dreading the end of summer and need to look forward to staying at a home on the beach with a view of the ocean. Or maybe you love to cook, so you want to stay in a home with your dream kitchen. Wherever your travel plans take you, it's the perfect time to get a little reset together as a family before the holiday season and craziness begins. But here's something you may not have considered. If you're planning to go

• 31:37Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  away this year, leaving your own space empty, you can list it on Airbnb while you're away to give another family some quality time in a home away from home. You get to make use of your space and you can earn some extra income to put toward your family's future travel plans. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com/host. Here's a question parents ask me all the time. How can I help my kid take ownership of their routine? I love this question because owning a routine is such a good way for kids to build independence and confidence. It's why I'm excited to tell you about Yodo, the screen-free audio player for kids. In the mornings, your kid can wake up with Yodo's alarm clock. When your kid gets home from school, Yodo has focus tracks, audiobooks,

• 32:21Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  music, and learning content. One of my kids really likes to write and record their own stories with the make your own cards. Then at night, your kid can build a wind down routine with Yodo's toothbrush timer, white noise, and nightlight. With the right sounds, stories, and a bit of structure, thanks to Yodo, mornings feel more manageable. Homework time feels calmer, and winding down before bed becomes something kids can run themselves, making the whole school year feel a little easier for everyone. Use the code DRBECKY15 for 15% off your order at Yodoplay.com. New customers only, ends October 31st. Terms apply. Offer valid on select products only. All right, picture this. You've just cooked your kid dinner. It's nutritious. It smells

• 33:03Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  amazing to you. And then your kid goes, oh, gross. Okay, we've all been there. I definitely have. And then you feel rejected by your kid. And on top of it, you're feeling anxious that your kid isn't getting enough nutrients. And when this inevitably sends you on a walk down the vitamin aisle, you end up thinking, all right, but will my kid even like any of these? Which one has what my kid actually needs? That's when you can turn to Smartypants vitamins. Smartypants Kids Plus Multi and Omegas delivers 33% more nutrients than the next leading product and includes Omega 3s. That's part of why it's the number one bestselling kids gummy multivitamin. You can shop Smartypants vitamins at Target, Walmart, or Amazon today.

• 33:55Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Well, I guess I'm also thinking about you're right and that's right in terms of kind of singular versus relational. So if I'm saying you're right, Chris, I kind of stop existing in the moment. Like you have the right. I'm over here alone. There's nothing between us. If I think about a good conversation with my kid, where I'm saying, I want to see if I got this right. The moment they say, yeah, mom, that's right. We as a relationship, we are bonded together around that. It's a very relational kind of phrase. If my kid says to me, you're right, there's, in some ways, they're saying, maybe they're wrong, right? Or something. There's a right and a wrong, but it's very singular. It's very

• 34:40Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  a relational.

• 34:41Speaker 01

  There's a barrier there they're putting up at some, some point in time, whether they mean to or not, or even in our, in our day-to-day relationships. I just, you can just see people's body language. There's something about they're holding them, they feel a barrier, they're holding themselves back. It's your truth.

• 34:59Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 35:00Speaker 01

  For some kind of reason, even if they feel it's the truth, they're not attached to it. It's still your truth. And so there's, no matter what, there's some kind of barriers there, there between the two of you. And that's right, the barrier's gone.

• 35:13Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah. You know, it's interesting, as we've been talking, I think about when things feel off with my kids. And let's say we go back to that example of peppering kids with questions, feeling like my kid doesn't answer me, but really, I'm just asking question after question and not listening. If I'm in a situation like that, I find one of the most effective things is to go to my kid in a con moment after I've realized and say something like, you ever feel like when I ask you questions after kind of you go home from school, I'm not really listening to you. I'm just asking one thing after another, right? And often my kid will say, um, yeah, like kind of some version of, yeah, that, that's right. And I find that is the singular thing that helps us kind of reconnect, right?

• 35:57Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Kind of really owning what I've been doing. Um, and it just makes me think about any parent listening, when you think about these communication techniques, which really are about connection. Also, in building connection with someone, moving from me against you to kind of me and you maybe against a problem. So many times, the things we feel guilty about or the pattern we recognize in ourself that isn't working can actually be the thing that we use to get to the that's right with our kid.

• 36:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:27Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Right?

• 36:28Speaker 01

  A thousand percent. And the way you said that, first, first of all, you're just laying out empathy, the other person's perspective. And then I have no doubt that you delivered it exactly the way you said just now, which was curious and collaborative and, you know, almost like, I'm kind of a goof, aren't I? You know, it's, there's, it's, it's almost humorous, playful.

• 36:53Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah, yeah, playful. Yeah. Am I ever annoying sometimes? Do I ask you a lot of questions? Am I, have I become a mom like that? Right? There's, yeah, there's a, there's a playfulness and kind of a levity to it.

• 37:05Speaker 01

  Yeah. Which makes you more approachable.

• 37:07Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah. Versus I think if I can be in the mindset of, oh, my kid withholds things from me, my kid doesn't talk to me, right? And I'm looking for my kid to kind of affirm that that's true about them. And, you know, I'm just trying to become close to them and they're kind of holding a barrier. That, that, that enemy mindset comes through. And then I find in those conversations, my kid becomes a lot more defensive.

• 37:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:32Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Right?

• 37:32Speaker 01

  Attention can have a smell.

• 37:34Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah. Um, so one of the things you talked about earlier was using what and how questions.

• 37:41Speaker 01

  Right.

• 37:41Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  You do not say why questions. And, right. So I want you to speak about that a little bit, because I do think in our moments of frustration, why don't you ever listen to me? Why don't you just go to bed? Why won't you put your phone down? Are those, sometimes I think we ask questions that aren't really questions, that you just have a question mark at the end, their accusations.

• 38:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:02Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  So what's wrong with those why questions?

• 38:03Speaker 01

  Everybody's been conditioned that if some, if you're being asked why the other side thinks you made a mistake. Now, you could, and it's a crazy thing about the term why, you know, because Simon Sinek will say, find out their why. Well, you do need to find out their why, but the problem is every time you think somebody made a mistake, you're going to ask them why.

• 38:25Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Hmm.

• 38:26Speaker 01

  And we hope that we think, well, I didn't think they made a mistake, but I still need to know why.

• 38:32Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Mm-hmm.

• 38:33Speaker 01

  Well, you condition them, seven out of 10 times, when they made a mistake, the first word coming out of your mouth is why. And they've been, we've all been conditioned that way since we were very small. Around the world, universally, whenever you made the slightest mistake as a toddler, or you pulled something down off a table, because you were just learning to stand, assisted, and you're groping and you're curious and you saw the shiny object, then you pulled it off the table and it happened to be glass. And the nearest monster, also known as an adult, you know, Godzilla's standing next to you, because they're towering over you, and they point a finger at you, and I go,

• 39:14Speaker 01

  why did you do that? And it's an unintentional, it's one thing that I learned worldwide in negotiations, hostage negotiations first and business after that. You want to set somebody off, ask them why. Automatically makes them mad, because they feel accused.

• 39:33Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Mm-hmm.

• 39:34Speaker 01

  And so you may genuinely want to know why. But again, the conditioning is just an accusation.

• 39:41Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Well, I think probably.

• 39:47Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Most of the time, we say why to our kids. We don't actually want to know why. It is kind of an accusation, right?

• 39:52Speaker 01

  Right. I don't care. Listen to me.

• 39:55Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah. Why'd you hit your sister? Right now, that, that can be a legitimate question. I'm not going to ask it in the heat of the moment because my four year old's not going to be able to give me a good answer. But I might later at night say, hey, sweetie, you know, this is one of my favorite phrases, right? You're, you're, you're a good kid. You were having a hard time. You're a good kid who was having a hard time. And hitting's not okay. And also, I wasn't in the room. There must have been something that happened that led to that. Let's actually figure that out because if we figure that out, we can figure out something else to do.

• 40:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:23Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  I'm kind of asking, I'm trying to figure out the why.

• 40:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:26Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Right. But that's very different than, you know, a second later, when my daughter comes saying, my brother hit me. Why did you hit your sister? I think what I'm really saying more from that meta communication is you're a bad kid.

• 40:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:37Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  You're a bad kid.

• 40:37Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 40:38Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Right? And you're doing bad things.

• 40:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:40Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  And nobody, nobody likes to be seen that way.

• 40:42Speaker 01

  Right. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

• 40:45Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  So leave out the whys, or at least leave out the whys when you're, when you don't actually have curiosity behind it.

• 40:51Speaker 01

  And if you can't stop yourself, you, you just build the habit of changing it to what? What made you do that? And then it at least takes this thing of accusation out. And then begins to try to find the journey that there was a causal factor. Just like what you talked about, something must have been going on in the room when I wasn't in there. I don't know what was happening.

• 41:10Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 41:11Speaker 01

  There was a causal factor.

• 41:13Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 41:13Speaker 01

  Now, you don't like the way they interpreted that causal factor. But the minute that you can recognize there may have been a contributing factor, which again, doesn't take the responsibility off.

• 41:23Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Mm hmm.

• 41:24Speaker 01

  You just want to have a secondary conversation, whether or not this was an appropriate response.

• 41:30Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yes.

• 41:30Speaker 01

  To the triggering factor.

• 41:32Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  That's right.

• 41:32Speaker 01

  Two different things. But you'll get at it if you could just switch why to what.

• 41:37Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  You know, one of the things I always tell parents, because they'll say again, but aren't I then approving of that behavior? From, you know, kind of asking questions about it is, I say, let's say I had the habit of spilling, I don't know, my water onto my guest every time they're on a podcast. And just, you know, you're the 20.

• 41:51Speaker 01

  Throw it across.

• 41:52Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah, I just have this habit. I don't know. It just goes and, you know, if someone heard me say, I wonder.

• 41:57Speaker 01

  That happens. Well, how am I supposed to interpret that?

• 42:00Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Well.

• 42:00Speaker 01

  Why did you do that?

• 42:01Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Right. But I, I think after you left here, if someone heard me say, oh, why does that keep happening? What's going on with my hand? I don't think anyone would say, Becky, you're really being permissive about your water throwing behavior. They'd say, well, of course I need to figure out what's going on before I can effectively change it. Right? So trying to figure out, why is my kid hitting? Why is my kid saying nasty things to their sibling? Why does every discussion with my teen end in, I hate you and closing the slamming the door in my face? That, that's just a precursor to trying to figure out an effective solution. Right? And does that go so far?

• 42:43Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Cause your work involves even higher stakes things than me and my teenager and his slam door. We're talking about life and death, hostage negotiation.

• 42:52Speaker 01

  The other life dead. Yeah.

• 42:54Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Right. Do, do, is that still a part of it? Trying to figure out the why, like, what is this really about? What is the deeper need this person has? Even in those high stakes situations where clearly you're not, you're not trying to approve of the hostage situation. But is that something you feel like is an important thing to figure out?

• 43:13Speaker 01

  Oh, without question, because it unlocks their collaboration.

• 43:17Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Say more.

• 43:18Speaker 01

  Well, so first of all, people, people make choices as a progression of failures. Like, nobody's, nobody's, nobody's turned to violence as a means of getting things done.

• 43:29Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  People make choices as a progression of failures.

• 43:32Speaker 01

  Right.

• 43:33Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Okay?

• 43:34Speaker 01

  Nothing works all the time.

• 43:36Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Hmm.

• 43:37Speaker 01

  You just need something that works more than anything else.

• 43:40Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Hmm.

• 43:41Speaker 01

  It's basically the Las Vegas analogy. If I'm the best card counter that ever lived, I'm going to lose some hands.

• 43:50Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Mm hmm.

• 43:51Speaker 01

  But I win so many, then the losses are not a big deal. Communication strategies with bad guys, communication strategies with your kids.

• 44:01Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Mm hmm.

• 44:02Speaker 01

  Nothing works all the time. You need what works more than anything else.

• 44:08Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  You know, I'm thinking about the parent listening who feels very stuck with their kid. Right? So everything ends in, I hate you, or the slam door. And I'm just thinking about how kind of that's a form of aggression, you know, relational violence, right? But I think so many times.

• 44:24Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 44:25Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  We see that as a disrespectful kid or something like that versus, I'm using your framework, kind of the logical progression.

• 44:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:36Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Based on maybe a road that I didn't even know was being paved. And, and it's interesting because I go back to a question, I say, I asked my kids if maybe I wasn't listening to them. But I think about approaching a teen in such a disarming way of, look, I want to talk about you slamming the doors, but actually you're not in trouble. I wonder if there have been a lot of ways you're, you've been trying to tell me, I'm not hearing you, or I don't understand you. That I've, that I've ignored for a while. And that maybe I need to kind of listen better. Maybe you're slamming the doors is kind of the end result of many years where I haven't really been understanding you.

• 45:16Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  I, I just, I think about how disarming that would be to a 15 year old to hear versus if you slam one more door, don't even think you're going to that concert with your friend. And then I know my kid is sneaking out and going to that concert.

• 45:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, right. Or something's going to get broken, or something's going sideways soon.

• 45:32Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah, kind of this logical progression. And it's so interesting because in your work, it, it goes back to feeling seen, to feeling heard, to feeling seen. And does that go back to autonomy? If that's the most basic need, is that how we feel kind of autonomous and independent?

• 45:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, I think so.

• 45:51Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Feeling hurt.

• 45:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, feeling, feeling hurt.

• 45:53Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 45:54Speaker 01

  Being heard and feeling heard are not the same thing.

• 45:57Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Hmm. Say more.

• 45:59Speaker 01

  Well, I could have heard you, but you don't know until I express it back to you.

• 46:05Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 46:06Speaker 01

  Then I've removed any doubt as to what I heard. Or it's a collaborative moment. You can say, well, that's not exactly it. Here's what it is.

• 46:15Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 46:15Speaker 01

  You know, your kid slammed the door and screamed. That was stuff that happened to them on the way to the house. If, if I snap at somebody at the end of the day, I had four or five things go wrong during the day. They had nothing to do with. And unfortunately, I haven't managed to, you know, empty my bucket or whatever phrase you want, you know, got back in the right frame of mind. And then five o'clock, if something goes wrong, there's a pretty good chance, you know, just somebody on my team's getting a harsh, very pointed text message.

• 46:48Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yep.

• 46:48Speaker 01

  When they were, the other four things, they weren't responsible for. You know, that happens to us as adults. So.

• 46:54Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 46:54Speaker 01

  Your, your kids journey home, like they got, they got messed with by somebody at school. The teacher snapped at them because the teacher was having a bad day, you know, they got the accumulation of negativity. Be nice to know whether or not you contributed or whether got them to recognize that, ah, you know, mom and dad didn't really contribute to this one. I just, you know, there was other stuff that set me up for this. Broke the camel's back, if you will.

• 47:18Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  What about repair? Now, I talk a lot about repair with parents, meaning apologizing to your kids. Hey, I snapped at you earlier, right? I'm sorry. That didn't feel good. Um, I think repair is one of the most important relationship strategies that in accumulation of kind of hard and unrepaired moments can really take their toll in a relationship. I'm curious how you see it.

• 47:43Speaker 01

  No, I, I agree. I mean, I think apology is, is a great tool. The degree of impact that it has on different types of people varies.

• 47:50Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Hmm.

• 47:51Speaker 01

  Some people just gotta hear apologies. Some people, they're somewhat indifferent to them, to it, but yet they still, an apology helps. As a general term, um, I'm, I'm of the type, two out of three people are a little bit indifferent. One person really likes it.

• 48:10Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Hmm.

• 48:11Speaker 01

  But that, the bottom line is there's no downside to it. You know, so if you're wondering when you should apologize, and it's got to be a real apology. You know, I'm sorry you feel that way. That's the, that's the fake apology.

• 48:26Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 48:27Speaker 01

  You know, I'm sorry you reacted badly to it, which, you know, is equivalent to saying, I'm sorry, you're an idiot. It's not an apology.

• 48:34Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yep.

• 48:35Speaker 01

  Um, but there's like, almost never downside to it if it's a sincere, you know, I'm sorry I snapped. Nobody should be happy that they snapped.

• 48:43Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Right.

• 48:45Speaker 01

  So.

• 48:47Speaker 01

  Apologize for it. You know, even if you were right.

• 48:52Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 48:52Speaker 01

  In what you said. Even if you were right in your judgment.

• 48:56Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Mm hmm.

• 48:58Speaker 01

  Snapping at somebody doesn't help. And so you should be sorry you snapped. And yeah, then, then the repair function, the repair is a great idea. You've, you've shown. I see humility and fearlessness to be almost synonymous.

• 49:15Speaker 01

  And showing humility is to be fearless.

• 49:18Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 49:18Speaker 01

  And the other person finds it wonderful. Everybody wants to deal with somebody who's fearless. It's a great thing to model. So I, apologies are, are appropriate.

• 49:31Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  So what about the parent who thinks, I'm going to lose my leverage with my kid? If I apologize, if I repair, the power dynamic is all off. How does that fit into kind of negotiation, leverage, influence?

• 49:42Speaker 01

  I don't, I, you know, there's a lot of common fears like that that we conjure up in our brain. And we conjure these things up in our brain because as humans, we're wired to be fearful. We're wired to be negative. The fearful caveman did not go wandering into the swamp stupidly. The, the fearless caveman, in point of fact, wandered into the swamp, got eaten by the alligators. So we're wired in, the amygdala is our, our dominating thinking mechanism, the fear centers in the brain, until we've learned to rely on our instincts. Our instincts are really, really super, super accurate, incredibly accurate. And so the challenge is always,

• 50:27Speaker 01

  is the fear coming from your, your instincts, which is assess the situation and told you based on real experience and real data, you should be concerned? Or the fear, I'm afraid I'm losing control. I'm afraid I'm losing my authority. That's the imagined fears in your amygdala. And that happens because you're human.

• 50:51Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  You know, one last thought, I've been thinking about it since, keep going back to you talking about, you're talking about Maslow and kind of survival versus autonomy. You know, one of the questions I think kids are always asking parents, even though they never explicitly ask it, is, am I real? I think that's why our relationship with our feelings matters so much because there's no, like when you skin your knee, there's blood and you're like, I'm in pain and I have proof. And when you're mad or you're disappointed or you're jealous, there's no, there's no proof. Like it, you know, and so I think the reason feeling seen or feeling validated in those feelings as a kid matters so much. I think it's a parent's way of saying, you're real.

• 51:35Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Right? And I think about, I'm curious, if, if that core need, that first need for autonomy, even before survival, is in some ways like the definition of being real. Like, am I real? I need to be, feel real before I even have a need to survive.

• 51:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, I like that a lot. Yeah, yeah, I would, I would, I would agree. There's, there's a number of things that are so closely intertwined. It's hard to really sort them out. One, another one is agency. You know, am I real? Because if you, if you're real, then can I affect my life, which is agency?

• 52:07Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 52:07Speaker 01

  And yeah, I think it being, am I real is a great thing that's got to be intertwined in both autonomy and agency.

• 52:15Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  And I think that's why when we don't feel real, we escalate our expression in a desperate attempt to get our environment to confirm our realness, which usually just leads to more invalidation or being told we're dramatic, which leads to more escalation.

• 52:27Speaker 01

  Right.

• 52:27Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Right? But probably true in, in your negotiations and in what I see in families all the time.

• 52:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, I would agree. Yeah, I like it a lot.

• 52:33Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 52:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:35Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Anything from your work, from your frameworks, that you feel like parents should be actively teaching their kids?

• 52:42Speaker 01

  I, I love that question because it's about collaborating positively with people. And you're always going to get farther, the more people you collaborate with positively. And so, so teaching them that and getting them to experiment with it and learn how people collaborate. And then it's also, if they, if they fail with somebody, it really means the skill didn't fail. It means you're talking to somebody who doesn't want to collaborate. And it's a diagnostic. So it's good to know the people around you that want to victimize you and don't want to collaborate. And if you're really using the skills and listening to the answers, they never fail.

• 53:26Speaker 01

  They always give you information about the person's reaction. And that's really helpful. And it's a heck of a shortcut to find out who you want to have around you and who you don't want to have around you.

• 53:37Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Well, let me see if I got this right, or a version of it. Where the more as a parent, you're working with your kid and collaborating with your kid. Because teaching them collaborative problem solving, it's one thing if you kind of teach it with your words, but then approach them in a controlling nature. It's probably not going to teach them that lesson.

• 53:55Speaker 01

  Right.

• 53:55Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  But hey, getting out the door has been really hard in the morning. I know neither of us want to be screaming and crying, so let's figure this out together. Or hey, there's something about going to soccer that's been feeling really hard. I feel like if we talk about it, we can put our minds together and figure it out. Are, are you also saying the more we kind of engage in that with our kids and teach them that skill, they'll take that into the world? And then also they'll be able to spot people who aren't actually willing collaborators, which, which is a really helpful skill to have going into adulthood.

• 54:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, it really is. You're gonna, those people are going to drag you down.

• 54:30Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah. You know, on that note, I'm curious what you think about this, where I have a lot of parents and it often is the mom who will say some version of, it's hard to get, you know, my partner on board, you know, with kind of this parenting approach. They're a little more old school and I ask them to kind of, you know, Dr. Becky, watch one of your videos or workshops and they won't, you know, can you help me solve this parenting problem? One thing I say is, look, if you approach your partner in the right way, some version of, hey, I know in the past I've come at this in a judgmental way. I don't want to do that. We both love our kids. I'd love for you to watch a video with me, not because this is right and you're wrong, but just because it gives us something to look at together and then we could talk about it.

• 55:15Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  And if your partner really says no to that, that's not a parenting problem, it's a marriage problem. Because it's a collaboration refusal.

• 55:22Speaker 01

  Well, and, and I would, I would trigger to really diagnose that, ask them with a no oriented question. Are you against watching this with me?

• 55:30Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Oh, love that upgrade. Are you against watching this with me?

• 55:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, it's that simple.

• 55:38Speaker 01

  And it's, and especially, you know, people collaborating with each other. The SNO dynamic is huge.

• 55:44Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 55:45Speaker 01

  And people will instantly respond that you preserve their autonomy.

• 55:50Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  That is so good. Are you against watching this with me? And then if my partner says, no, I'm not against it, could I follow up with, oh, great, what, what time would work?

• 55:57Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 55:58Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Okay. But when I say, could we watch this together? Even if I've had a preamble, to some degree, my partner might hear meta-communication. You've been wrong and I'm right and I want to prove it.

• 56:08Speaker 01

  Or they're just, they're just triggering to yes.

• 56:11Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Okay, so model it one more time for the parent who's thinking, okay, I'm going to try this, I'm going to approach my partner in a different way. I want them to watch something with me. What's the starting question?

• 56:20Speaker 01

  And then say, you know, unfortunately, I know I'm a goofball and I'm always after you. And I think that this video would be helpful for both of us and be a better parents for our kids. Are you against watching it with me?

• 56:36Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  And just to play it out, if they say, yeah.

• 56:41Speaker 01

  Then dead silence.

• 56:44Speaker 01

  Let it sink in.

• 56:45Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 56:46Speaker 01

  You know, and, and if they, if they don't come off it in the six seconds, beautiful label to really open people up. Seems like you got a reason for saying that.

• 56:57Speaker 01

  Like that is the magic label. You can say to anybody under, you disagree, seems like you got a reason for saying that. You agree, seems like you got a reason for saying that.

• 57:06Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Can that circle back to my, you know, 16 year old, eight year old to me, I hate you.

• 57:11Speaker 01

  Seems like you got a reason for saying that.

• 57:13Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Tell me more.

• 57:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:15Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  We're going to end on that because that is really good. Love it. Thank you for that upgrade. Thank you for this conversation.

• 57:21Speaker 01

  Thanks for having me and I enjoyed it.

• 57:29Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  I want to share the thing that is loudest in my brain right now, after my conversation with Chris. There's such a big difference between saying to someone, hey, would you be open to watching this video with me? Versus, are you against watching this video with me? I would have never thought to phrase something the second way, but I actually see why it's so much more effective that it allows someone to have their autonomy and freedom and find kind of the common ground. So powerful, asking a question to elicit a no. I'm definitely going to be thinking about that. Now let's end the way we always do. Place your feet on the ground. Place a hand on your heart. And let's remind ourselves,

• 58:12Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  even as we struggle on the outside, we remain good inside. I'll see you soon.

• 58:27Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  You know, parents carry a lot. In fact, data show that most parents spend every waking hour caring for someone else. So if you feel exhausted and stretched thin, you're not alone and that makes sense. And look, I also know from experience what a relief it is to find caregiving support. Finding a babysitter you trust and your kids will have fun with. That makes it so much easier to go back to work or travel or yeah, even go on one date with your partner. Care.com makes it easier to find trusted, background-checked caregivers with search and hiring tools you won't find on social media. Whether you need full-time help or just part-time help with morning drop-off or after-school care,

• 59:10Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  care.com can help you find nannies, sitters and daycares. And you can find the expertise that matters to you. Think homework help, CPR training or experience with multiple kids. And if you're considering daycare, you can search, compare and request tours and could even get a discount on daycare tuition as a care.com member. If you need more support, care.com can help. For a limited time, you can use the code BECKY35 to save 35% on a care.com membership. When it's not you, it's care.com.